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Fourth Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 11 – 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, December 11, 2002 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY First Session–Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 419 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 11, 2002 The House met at 1:30 p.m. ministers during the 1980s and 1990s. The previous Conservative government agreed with PRAYERS the 6% target and agreed that hydro power was a means to meet that target. The former gov- ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS ernment further agreed to working together with industry to meet Kyoto targets and time frames. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS There was also a commitment to a climate change plan which, regrettably, was never Kyoto Protocol produced. Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Energy, Science Today, exactly five years after the signing of and Technology): Mr. Speaker, I have a state- the Kyoto accord, the need to act has never been ment for the House. greater. Canadians spent $5 billion last year alone because of the severe droughts faced by Yesterday the Kyoto Protocol was ratified producers in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and to a by a parliamentary vote of 195 in favour and 77 lesser extent here in Manitoba. Ontario spent $1 against. This clear majority in Parliament repre- billion in smog-related illnesses and had one of sents the clear majority of Canadians who its worst seasons on record with 30 smog days wanted Kyoto ratified and who want meaningful this past summer. Predictions that temperatures action to reduce greenhouse gases. will rise from one to five degrees worldwide are already being realized in northern climates. The Kyoto accord, signed by nations around Arctic Ocean temperatures are rising faster than the world in 1997, was an agreement already 10 expected and glaciers are melting in Alberta. In years in the making. The starting point was here Manitoba, melting winter roads are causing in Canada in 1988 at the Toronto Conference of serious safety concerns as well as economic the Changing Atmosphere. The conference was hardship for our northern communities. headed up by former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. At the conclusion of the meeting, a We are also seeing serious changes to statement was issued calling for a 20% reduction Manitoba's wildlife habitat. Projections show in greenhouse gases. The statement read: enormous loss of our boreal forest by 2050. One Humanity is conducting an unintended, uncon- can hardly contemplate the huge economic im- trolled, globally pervasive experiment whose pacts this will have in terms of forestry and ultimate consequences could be second only to a tourism, let alone the environmental impacts of global nuclear war. losing this ecosystem that is so important to Manitoba. In 1992, further consensus was reached through the United Nations Framework Con- There is no question we must act and we are vention on Climate Change. Agreement was proud to say that our Government is acting. In reached by 150 countries to take action to slow 2001, we commissioned the Climate Change climate change by limiting human-caused green- Task Force that had representation from busi- house gases. In 1993, Paul Martin also com- ness, labour, agriculture and academic insti- mitted a 20% reduction in greenhouse gases. tutions. The task force produced excellent recommendations that called for the ratification * (13:35) of Kyoto and that focussed on economic opportunities for Manitoba. Our Climate Change The Kyoto Protocol, at a 6% reduction, is plan, released this past fall, committed to clearly a modest first step compared to the meeting those recommendations through con- ambitious target set by federal leaders and crete actions that would take us beyond Kyoto 420 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 11, 2002 targets. We have already begun that work. The that protects our environment for future genera- conversion of the Selkirk plant from coal to tions of Manitobans. natural gas makes Manitoba almost coal free. * (13:40) Our low emissions mean that less than 4 percent of our economy will be subject to Kyoto Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): I would like to reduction targets. This compares with 35 percent thank the minister for bringing this statement to of the Alberta economy. the House. Clearly this is a very important part in our country's future, the way we are going to We can point to what has been achieved just deal with the Kyoto Protocol. in the last week. With modest provincial investment, we are already levering millions of One of the things I would like to point out to investment dollars to build on our strength as a the minister and his Government, though the leader in bus manufacturing in North America. vote was 195 in favour and 77 against, unfor- Manitoba is partnering with industry and the tunately it took the government closure to move federal government to move forward on hydro- that particular bill along. For something as gen fuel cell development with the testing of the serious as Kyoto, something that is going to have hydrogenics engine by New Flyer. a major impact on the way we live and the way our children live, I am not too sure closure was We also announced that our enormous hydro the right way to proceed with something as advantage will be supplemented by wind power. significant as the Kyoto accord. Seven new wind monitoring sites will confirm Manitoba's wind potential. I would point out to the minister and his Government there was another national policy Today we released our panel report on that the federal government came out with some ethanol that shows the future for this industry years ago that also took closure to move for- looks very bright. The report notes that ethanol ward, a major national policy initiative that was production and use will keep $57 million supposed to be $2 million in cost. That was circulating in the Manitoba economy. The report supposed to be recouped, and instead it is at the identifies Manitoba as one of the lowest cost billion dollar mark. producers of grain-based ethanol in North America. The Manitoba Chamber recommended When we go into these major, major policy a mandate for ethanol as soon as possible to initiatives on a national perspective, we have to secure the full benefits of an ethanol industry. A be very careful what it is that we lay out, and side benefit is the potential to increase the using closure is probably not the best way to go. number of fed to finish livestock through I think the overriding issue about the whole increased high protein grain production. While Kyoto accord is that it actually leaves more we know there will be some transition with questions than answers. The overriding question Kyoto, corporate giants such as BP, Shell, Du is: What is the cost and what is the impact to Pont and Alcan are already meeting and Canadians? exceeding Kyoto targets without hurting their bottom lines. Unfortunately, throughout the whole debate, whether on a national scale, whether here in this We also have leaders in our own com- Chamber, over the last few weeks we have asked munity. Tembec has just announced that it has the Government and we have asked the minister reduced emissions by 46 percent. I am going to the questions: What are the costs? What are the table a copy of their most recent report as a part impacts? We have certainly had a lot of studies, of my statement.

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