DAILY

YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THETHE SECOND THIRD MEETING MEETING OF THE OF FIRST THE SESSIONFIFTH SESSION OF THE OF THE ELEVENTWELFTH PARLIAMENTTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 04 SEPTEMBER 2020

ENGLISHMIXED VERSION VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. NO: 193 198

DISCLAIMER Uno cial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an uno cial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The nal edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. ( East)

Clerk of the National Assembly -- Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly -- Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel -- Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) -- Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. --President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) --Vice President -Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. ( South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (-) --Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) --Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) --Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (-Manyana) --Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security -Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) --Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. () --Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services -Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. () - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. ( Bonnington North) --Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. () --Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) --Minister of Basic Education -Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology -Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. () - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry -Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) --Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

-Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development -Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) --Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (-) --Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) --Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry -Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. ( East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) --Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY ( Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) -Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. -Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata- Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. - Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. (Opposition Whip) Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South (Independent Member of Parliament)

Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West TABLE OF CONTENTS THE THIRD MEETING OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 04 SEPTEMBER, 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME...... 1-7

QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE...... 8-10

STATEMENT Botswana’s Assumption of The Chairship of The SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security...... 11-16

MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT-DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Regulation of the beef industry...... 17-28

Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

Friday 4th September, 2020 contributed can be motivated to see a transparent update on how this money was used rather than seeing their THE ASSEMBLY met at 9:00 a.m. money being channeled elsewhere. Thank you.

(THE SPEAKER in the Chair) MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC P R A Y E R S DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Thank you. Good morning Mr Speaker. Let me thank my * * * * colleague for the question. Let me assure him that as Government, we extend our gratitude and bless all those MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME who contributed and those who wished to. I believe MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC that is a true reflection of the spirit of the Government DEVELOPMENT and the nation of Botswana, the spirit of self-reliance even during the time when Government and the nation THEME: COVID-19 RELIEF FUND of Botswana is attacked by Corona. I appreciate all companies and Batswana who played a role in assisting Asked the Minister of Finance and Economic the Government against such a fight. Development to update this Honourable House: Your question is relevant; it is indeed true that this (i) on the total amount of money contributed to the process calls for a transparent update on how the money National COVID-19 Relief Fund; and was spent and whether it was used for its intended (ii) how the money has been spent and/or is to be purpose. spent. I informed this House that in due course, I will present MR C. K. HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you an audit of all the transactions of this fund to Parliament Honourable Speaker. Minister, I have a question which detailing how much has been expended to which country I wish we should understand as Members of Parliament. and which company was paid; all those details will be Before I ask the question, let me thank Batswana who shared in Parliament. You will get that record. took heed of the plea to assist in the fight against Corona. When this plea was made, majority of Batswana made There was no intention from our side to hide the pledges, and not to flaunt their wealth, but to show that transactions of this fund. So I would like to answer your they care about the lives of Batswana at large. questions as presented so that we deliberate more on those. As you know, the answer is written in English, so Minister, the most important thing is that after people I will read it in English sir. have contributed, there should be a transparent update on how the money was spent and how much it was, HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… this motivates even those who did not contribute. There DR MATSHEKA: …(Laughter!)… should be a full update of the total amount, who was in charge of the fund and the expenditures so that we HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… can comprehend how Batswana`s hard earned money was spent and if it was used for the intended purpose. DR MATSHEKA: Sir! Minister, those are the questions. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… First question; how much is the total amount contributed DR MATSHEKA: Mr Speaker, I seek permission to towards the created fund, either from other countries, as read it in English sir. we saw them contributing, private companies as well as Government as we heard that she also contributed to MR SPEAKER: Please! the Fund. DR MATSHEKA: Thank you. Last question; how was the money spent, on what? If it is not yet spent, how is it going to be spent? Those (i) Mr Speaker, since the inception of the Fund in are the questions which I wish could be clarified to this April 2020, a total amount of Two Billion, One House this morning. Since we are still dealing with Hundred and Twenty-Six Million, Eight Hundred the pandemic, I believe that those who have not yet and Forty-One Thousand and Ninety-Four Pula

Hansard No198 1 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

(P2, 126, 841, 094) has been contributed into the Minister, the other question is that, as other countries COVID-19 Pandemic Relief Fund. Of this amount, are continuing to make donations to us, are there any Two Billion Pula (P2 Billion) is seed money from Batswana, companies and other service providers that Government and the remaining One Hundred and we owe as a country, for example hotels? We once heard Twenty-Six Million, Eight Hundred and Forty- that they have not been paid across the country. Thank One Thousand and Ninety-Four Pula (P126, 841, you. 094) was received from the private sector, civil society organisations, development partners and DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Honourable Member. Let members of the public. me explain that, Batswana who were outside the country were working with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to (ii) Mr Speaker, disbursements from the Fund are show their interest in being assisted to come home. An made in line with the provisions of the Fund Order. arrangement that was made was that, they were grouped The total amount disbursed from the Fund as at together because it was difficult for them to charter rd 3 September, 2020 is One Billion, Five Hundred a plane, and when we have found a plane that comes and Eighty-Four Million, and Eighty Thousand, here or via South Africa, then it was arranged for them Five Hundred and Ninety-Two Pula (P1, 584, to board that plane. Some of them landed in Ethiopia, 080, 592). The disbursements are categorised as and then they boarded another plane to come here. This follows: arrangement is called below the line, and they are going • Eight Hundred and Thirty-One Million, Two to pay back this money because they were outside the Hundred and Eighty-Nine Thousand, Seven country because of different reasons, and they wanted to Hundred and Fifty-One Pula (P831, 289, 751) was come home. So it was really intended to facilitate their for the wage subsidy. repatriation to avoid them struggling to raise money during the time when they needed to come home. • A sum of Three Hundred and Fifty Million, Eight Hundred and Seventy Thousand and Eighty-Three It is true that maybe some were not able to come, I Pula (P350, 870, 083) was for food hampers; cannot answer you directly on whether there are those who are still remaining behind for whatever reasons, • Three Hundred and Thirty-Four Million, Four but I can confirm that, the number of those who showed Hundred and Thirty-Two Thousand, Seven Hundred interest through the various embassies, are the ones who and Ninety-One Pula (P334, 432,791) has been were able to be assisted to come here. disbursed for health supplies. I will give you the table because we are asked for numbers. It is true that donations are still continuing. I believe that the figure that I provided here, is the most upto • Fifty-Eight Million, Two Hundred Thousand, date, to show what amount is available at the time I am Seven Hundred and Forty-Eight Pula (P58,200,748) answering this question. was disbursed to the Ministry of Basic Education for temporary employment of Safety, Health and Let me also confirm that, it is true there are those who Environmental (SHE) Officers (P56,330,316) and are still owed because there is a Government procedure psychological support (P1,870,432); that is supposed to be followed. Some of the companies were not registered in the system, some did not have (iii) Nine Million, Two Hundred and Eighty-Seven complete records, so that when an audit is made, then Thousand, Two Hundred and Nineteen Pula (P9, 287, 219) was for evacuation and financial support it can be verified that indeed this company is situated to Batswana abroad. I thank you Mr Speaker. at such a certain place, confirm its owners and that the invoices that are provided are true. As such, some of … Silence … the delays were caused by the fact that when the virus MR MAJAGA: Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you broke out, people were booked into hotels without doing Honourable Minister. Minister, were you as the the pre-document requirements so that we can confirm Government able to assist all Batswana who were abroad payments. I can tell you that a lot of those are being and wanted to come back home during the outbreak of resolved to make sure that everyone is paid for the COVID-19, or they had to pay for themselves? service that they provided to Government. Thank you.

2 Hansard No 198 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

MR SALESHANDO: Honourable Minister, there were up to receive those goods except for the ones that were many donations that were not cash, but as goods that were provided by us as the Ministry of Finance. So I believe donated to the Government in regards to COVID-19. I that all the money that was donated was in that order. want to know, how do you account for them? From the money that you mentioned, did you take their value and I said that we were not able to convert cattle and other include them in the fund, or you keep a separate list things into any monetised form. I believe that we will of those items? Also if they are already used, are they issue a separate report that will show how these things included in that update that they have been distributed were used, if there was a cow that was slaughtered, how or how did you account for them? Thank you. was it divided, to who and what was happening.

DR MATSHEKA: Thank you. Thank you very much It is also true that Cabinet donated for six months, I Leader of the Opposition. I confirm that indeed there think 10 per cent, something like that. I want to answer were goods other than money that were donated. They by saying yes, that is our commitment, some of us are managed by the Office of the President because they signed a once off cheque, and others donated monthly. are the ones who overlook the District Commissioners; That report is there as part of the fund, we record only that is where they were managed. Let us also state money that was deposited in the fund and not pledges. that there is a supplies warehouse at Gaborone West So I believe that those who have pledged, they are were these things were received. There is a system continuing to honour their commitments and contribute that is used for disbursement and to account for those. to this noble cause. Thank you. I can say to you that we did not convert these things into money to be part of this, there is a separate report MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable that is issued to account for what we received. There Speaker. Thank you very much Honourable Minister. are also guidelines that were made to guide on who is Let me also thank those who were able to donate, and supposed to be assisted with those. A lot of those items even those who did not donate, especially students were meant for frontline officers and others who were who do not have money, if you cannot donate money, working, they were going to benefit from those. I cannot you can donate your own blood, which is much more give the full report now on the non-cash donations that valuable than money. were received. I thank you. My question is, I hear how the money was used, but MR BROOKS: Thank you Mr Speaker and good I did not hear you talk about overtime and night-out morning. Just a follow-up on the one question that was asked by Honourable Leader of the Opposition; back allowances for workers who were working at border at the villages, there was money that farmers donated crossings, and health workers who spent a lot of time which was contributed towards District Commissioner’s at the borders. Were they paid those allowances? Thank offices, is it accounted for in the figures that you talked you. about here Honourable Minister? DR MATSHEKA: Thank you very much. It is true that Secondly, since the Honourable Ministers also had their we must appreciate everybody’s contribution. Some salaries scaled down, making a commitment to assist in of them were in kind with their time and assist to this the fight against this pandemic, is their contribution also campaign to try and fight this virus. included in those figures, are they continuing to donate, or has it been stopped? I take it that you answered part The issue of overtimes and others, it is not charged of it, especially the one of farmers donating cattle and into this account. It is money that as you are working other goods, did you change this to money? How did at Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS), for you value them? example, it will be BURS handling that. If you are a disciplined force, you will be paid separately. So at this DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Honourable Brooks. The juncture, I am not able to tell you the global cost of money that was donated was received from everywhere, participation and attending to the pandemic, but I agree we provided accounts that money was to be deposited with you that; I am aware as well that there is an issue in. Now all the money that was received by the relevant of overtime for people who have worked, others are told people, I believe that all the money was deposited into that they will be paid with time offs, but that is a detail the fund, because there is no other account that was set that I cannot share today. Thank you.

Hansard No198 3 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

MR HIKUAMA: There are rumours on social media with the market. Sometimes it is unavoidable because of and other media platforms that food worth millions the emergency situation that is there. Certainly, it is not were purchased at Choppies in particular. Are those anybody’s intention to misappropriate or encourage the reports true, that they were then disposed because they use of funds in a manner that is not consistent with our have expired, and they were not delivered where they policy. As I have said before, we are going to bring that were supposed to distributed? audit. It is ongoing by the Auditor General to make sure that at least, we can give you a report that stipulates how DR MATSHEKA: No, Honourable Member, you are the funds were utilised, or where they went. I thank you. now asking me something irrelevant now. We agreed that I am answering to issues that are in regards to the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kekgonegile, watch the COVID-19 Fund, this one on rumours of corruption, I time. They have given this question 15 minutes and no do not want to be involved in. When the Honourable more. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is answering about that, perhaps it is a separate question. MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, P165 million has been contributed DR TSHABANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable by the private sector and so forth; we are looking at De Minister, we are talking about money here, P2 billion Beers and banks. Our expectation was that when we say and above, and where there is money, there are always De Beers has failed, at least they might contribute P1 fingers that get in that are not allowed. If I may borrow billion considering what they are doing in South Africa. the word that was used by the Honourable Member, We know how much banks have made in the past five there are ‘rumours’ that some fingers have already years; the profit for some banks was the highest in meddled somewhere there, especially in the purchasing Botswana. We expected them to contribute more than of protective clothing. There was overpricing collusion. that. Are you satisfied with this contribution from these Tenders were awarded to people who did not qualify organs, or will you pursue them? The audit that you are talking about, when is it going to come Minister? Give and they had no idea where they were supposed to us the timeline regarding when you are going to audit buy this Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). As a this fund. Bringing a report from the Attorney General Minister responsible for this money, what assurance can is not enough, we want an audit. Thank you Mr Speaker. you give to us, as to what you are going to do to make sure these monies were utilised properly, and that it will DR MATSHEKA: Thank you for your question. When not get misappropriated. Are you going to bring a full you talk about donations, you are referring to something report since there are allegations that those funds were that we would be requesting from people, so we have misappropriated, that they were stolen via the tenders to accept the little they are giving us. One would wish that were awarded undeserving; are you going to bring to be given more than what they are given, but it would us that report? Do you commit yourself as a Minister to depend on what the donor can afford at that time. The make sure that there is no corruption? Thank you very one regarding the audit, I have explained that it is much. ongoing. I was assured that they are almost done with that report, so, I am not going to give you a timeline. DR MATSHEKA: Yes, thank you Honourable Dr Let me go back to the office, and hear how far the Tshabang. The truth is that, you rely in processes in Accountant General is, whether they are done or not, order to handle public funds and because of that, there so that we can have a cut-off point. As we have been is no other assurance over and above the requirement explaining that the disease is still among us, we are still that people should adhere to the procedure. All that I receiving donations. Therefore, we have got to have a can say to you is that, I believe these funds, just as I was cut-off point, and we would agree that we shall audit responding to the Leader of Opposition (LOO), last time up to this date. I will certainly bring the report. I have when I talked about direct appointments and those that said this many times, I am sure the number of times that were limited tenders, all those records are there. Even I have said it, you believe me now that I will bring the today I am carrying a whole document, spreadsheets proof. Thank you Mr Speaker. about accommodation, which hotels have been paid and so forth. I am sure you will agree with me that sometimes MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL when this is the case, there is always opportunistic AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC behaviour, where people are pricing totally out of line ADMINISTRATION

4 Hansard No 198 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

THEME: APPOINTMENT OF JUDGES; matter even though he heads the Judiciary. This kind INDEPENDENCE, INTERGRITY AND PUBLIC of arrangement is akin to corruption or in any event, CONFIDENCE IN THE COURT OF APPEAL conducive to corruption. Best practice and principle of (COA) good governance require a transparent and merit-based process of appointing Judges. It is necessary that the MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE process of appointing Judges be open and visible to the WEST): Thank you Honourable Speaker and good public, in that sense, accountable. Public confidence in morning. Good morning Members. Honourable Minister, the Judiciary is essential for the maintenance of Judicial this question is about the importance of Judiciary in a independence. An important requirement of sustaining democratic setup. The question is about the importance public confidence in the Judiciary is the openness and or of the system of appointment of Judges in maintaining transparency in appointing Judges. Judicial integrity, independence and public confidence in the Judiciary. It is about whether or not the Minister Currently, the Judge President and one or two Judges appreciates this importance. If yes, whether he is doing have long reached the retirement age of 70. They are something about it to bring progressive change. The now nearing 80, but they have their contracts renewed appointment of Judges is an important aspect of Judicial twice or even more than twice for three years or so, this independence which requires that in administering was unnecessary. Mr Speaker, unnecessary because justice, Judges should be free from all sorts of direct or there are Batswana who can serve in their positions even more competently. This practice of reaching retirement indirect interference or influence. The principle of the and not retiring is very bad. It steals opportunities for independence of the Judiciary seeks to ensure the freedom young Batswana Judges to serve in the Court of Appeal. of Judges to administer justice impartially without any A Judiciary whose Judges are appointed not on merit but fear or favour. Mr Speaker, this freedom of Judges, has on partisan, political or other considerations, eventually a close relationship with Judicial appointments because becomes a lapdog of the Executive or the appointing the appointment system has a direct bearing on the authority and lacks credibility among the people. Things impartiality, integrity and independence of Judges, as need to change at the Apex Court. well as public confidence in the Judicature. There are even concerns that anticipated vacancies Mr Speaker, the main concern and or perception in the are reserved for known friends basically booked in legal fraternity and other quarters, which must be dealt advance. This rot must stop now. There are Judges of with through legislation and policy changes, is that the High Court who merit ascending to the Court of the Court of Appeal is effectively a privatised public Appeal but they cannot because one man controls who institution that operates secretly. It is believed to be enters and who does not. The Court of Appeal does not singularly run by its Judge President. He should be the represent the demographics of the nation. There is a one who effectively decides who should or should not be a Judge. It is only believed that if you are a Motswana, disproportionate number of white Judges relative to our qualified and experienced, even qualified more than population, a thing that is made possible by its policy him, if he does not like you, you cannot be a Court of of entrusting choice of Judges to one man who is not Appeal Judge. The recruitment to the court is not based even an indigenous Motswana. Mr Speaker, we want the on merit, there is no known criteria and no advertisement Minister to explain this archaic, unfair and undemocratic of vacancies. Mr Speaker, unlike the High Court, the system of appointment of Court of Appeal Judges; the Court of Appeal does not advertise vacancies that occur demographics of the bench, age, gender, nationality, and interview candidates for Judgeship. This is serious details of Judges on contracts and the history of their because transparency and openness of selection of Judges contracts. The Minister should update this House on reinforces merit and independence of Judges and the when the reform of Court of Appeal will commence. I Judiciary as an institution. Mr Speaker, in our case, there rest my case Mr Speaker. is no known written or published policy of appointment. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... Recruitment seems to be based on friendship, dislike or prejudice. To make it to the Court of Appeal, you must MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND be approved, it would seem, by the Judge President, SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Mr Speaker, the question and maybe the Chief Justice. I say maybe because is for the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance even him, does not appear to have any influence on the and Public Administration.

Hansard No198 5 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

MR SPEAKER: Sorry. Honourable Mthimkhulu, you secrecy that comes with the appointment of Judges of are the Minister. the Court of Appeal and that it is causing confusion? As an advocate who appeared before our courts, do you not ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL know the perception that Court of Appeal is controlled AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC by one white man who is a naturalised Motswana? ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the Judges of the Court of MR MTHIMKHULU: The other thing that I would Appeal are appointed by His Excellency the President like to clarify for you to understand is that Judges of the of the Republic of Botswana in terms of the country’s High Court and Court of Appeal are appointed by his Constitution. The Judge President is appointed in terms Excellency the President in accordance with the advice of Section 100 (1) of the Constitution while other Judges of the JSC. Motumise case clarified that the President of Appeal are appointed in terms of Section 100 (2) by cannot decide who should or should not be appointed. the President acting in accordance with the advice of the That decision is made by… Judicial Service Commission (JSC). In terms of Section 4 (1) of the Court of Appeal Act, Cap 04:01, Parliament HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)… has set the number of Judges of the Court of Appeal at MR MTHIMKHULU: If you do not listen to me, it 12. Currently, there are nine members made up of eight shows that you do not want my clarification; you did not male Judges and one female Justice. want the answer. You wanted to ridicule. Listen to me so Mr Speaker, we have six citizen Judges of the ages that I educate you, listening is a skill... 61, 64, 64 and 72. The one with 72 years is on his first HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of procedure contract. There are also two Judges of 73 and 74 who Mr Speaker. are on second contract. Mr Speaker, there are also two South African Justices aged 67 on the first contract, the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I think he is other who is 72 is on second contract. answering you.

Finally, there is one Scottish Judge aged 78 on second HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is not. contract. Persons who become Judges of the Court of MR SPEAKER: Yes, I will tell you why. According Appeal have almost enviably served as Judges of the to your question, you are questioning the way these High Court. The reason being that the nature of the people of the Court of Appeal are appointed and he is job requires experience. Botswana, like many other saying, as I understand him, that they are appointed countries, avails its Judges elsewhere and engages by the President in accordance with the advice of the eminent retired Judges from outside. Botswana Judges JSC. He said that before and I think he is repeating serve or have served in such countries as Lesotho, himself, probably, not too accurate to what you want. Swaziland, Namibia, Papua New Guinea and Seychelles. Probably, you could rephrase your question so that he For now, the JSC has determined that the three eminent can understand you and provide the fitting answer. juries from other countries who served in our court add value and objectivity to our jurisprudence. I thank you MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, I am saying even Mr Speaker. though the Constitution is clear on the appointment of Judges of the Court of Appeal, I have included its MR KEORAPETSE: Thank you Mr Speaker. provisions but I did not read the paragraph. It is clear and Honourable Minister, you are not telling us the criteria that people who are interested in being Judges of the we know but there is a process whereby vacancies are Court of Appeal should know. The difference is that advertised for the High Court, it is a clear and elaborate the High Court publicises and even advertises the criteria and it is different when it comes to the Court vacancies and the route that one should follow if they of Appeal. So my question is, why so much secrecy at want to be a judge is made clear. So when it goes to the Court of Appeal? No one knows the criteria that is the Court of Appeal, are there no adverts or any known used to appoint a Judge of the Court of Appeal. We only criteria besides what is written in the Constitution? The see people after they have been appointed as Judges of Constitution cannot provide for everything and that is Court of Appeal. How are they appointed? Who would why for the High Court, there is a criteria which is known have identified them? What criteria is used for them for one to be a Judge; qualifications. Do you not see the to be appointed Judges? Where are they picked from?

6 Hansard No 198 Friday 4th September, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

That is what I want to know. I know all the provisions Batswana who are younger than that age? Honourable of the Constitution. This is basic constitutional and Keorapetse is adamantly and vehemently very clear administrative law which we have been taught by that JSC is majorly comprised of white Judges who are Nsereko and Tshosa. old vis-à-vis many Batswana who are qualified to be Judges. Honourable Minister, why not select from these MR SPEAKER: Now, I think you are clear. Batswana?

MR MTHIMKHULU: The Constitution prescribes Finally Mr Speaker, Honourable Member for Selebi that no one can direct the JSC on how to operate, it is Phikwe is unflinching. He is saying for someone to the one which comes up with its own procedures which be appointed as a Judge of the Court of Appeal, there they believe are fair and that these procedures will assist is absolutely nowhere the vacancies are advertised; them so that when they recommend the name to the selection is done on friendship basis. What is the criteria President, when they advise him that that person is the for selection? Thank you. one who is capable of being a Judge President of the MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker. Court of Appeal, they would have satisfied themselves. Honourable Moatlhodi, I do not know that Judge JSC has confirmed that that procedure is fair. So as the President of Court of Appeal is 80, where do you get Executive, because the constitution prescribes that JSC that or maybe you know his birthday more than anyone is the one which should advise the President and Section here? What I can confirm to you is that, I know for a fact 103 of the Constitution, Sub-section 4 says the JSC and that he is not 80 years, he is way below 80 years. This is I quote with your permission Mr Speaker. an indication that you are not telling the truth. When we are here we should not discriminate people according to MR SPEAKER: Do. their skin colour. If a person has Botswana citizenship, he or she is a Motswana just like everybody else and MR MTHIMKHULU: “The Judicial Service you cannot discriminate them based on whether they Commission shall not be subject to the direction of control are white or black. If you do that, that is discrimination of any other person or authority in the exercise of its and it is wrong to do that in Parliament Honourable functions under this Constitution.” It is the Constitution, Moatlhodi. I believe that you will withdraw those words. so for the appointment of Judges of the Court of Appeal, the President acts on the recommendation from the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… JSC. The criteria that is used to make appointments at MR MTHIMKHULU: Secondly, you said, the number JSC has been in use since our independence. There is of Batswana appointed to the Court of Appeal is lesser a criteria which they believe is appropriate for them than those who are not Batswana, that is if I understood to use when looking for a good candidate, and they sit you correctly. We have six Batswana employed by the and discuss it. After they reach an agreement, that is Court of Appeal because of the reasons I gave. Those when they will then pass it to the President for him to who come from outside Botswana are three out of this do the appointment. That is the Constitution. If it needs nine. Honourable Moatlhodi, you should also know to be amended because we do not support it, you will that Court of Appeal of Botswana for the past 15 years have to come up with those reasons when we review was not like this. At some point, almost all Judges were the Constitution and that is if Batswana support it, so from outside Botswana, the Whites that you are talking that it can be included in the Constitution; that now the about because that time we believed that Batswana did advertisement is going to be floated in the newspapers not have the ability to become Judges of the Court of for the position of Judge of Court of Appeal just like Appeal. Ever since then, there is localisation, it has other positions which are advertised. Thank you Mr changed. The reform that Honourable Keorapetse is Speaker. talking about, now we have localised the bench and made it permanent. It is no longer sitting only, we have MR MOATLHODI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Good people like Judge President sitting throughout the year, morning Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, Honourable and the other six Judges sit throughout the whole year, Keorapetse is vehemently very clear that the President it is permanent. That is the reform that you are talking of the Court of Appeal is over 80 years and he has had about. We will continue reforming even the processes a chance of his contract being renewed. Batswana who of appointing the Judges if that is how Batswana want qualify for this position are there, so why is someone it and include it in the Constitution the way you want. of this age being appointed instead of appointing Thank you Mr Speaker.

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DR DOW: Thank you. Minister, are you aware that in are appointed by the President. The Court President America in the highest courts there is no retirement age at has been appointed by the President, thereafter they go all? It is believed that when you are doing an intellectual and appoint Judges of the Court of Appeal in secret and work and not manual work you use your brain optimally when you take a look at them, they appear as if they are a and you become stable as you grow older. That is why cricket team or retirement home. Honourable Members, there is no retirement age. Are you aware that I was one do we really want to continue with this system? Please of the three Judges… answer Comrade Mthimkhulu.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker. The Speaker. process like I said is dictated by the Constitution. Therefore, if you want to change the process, you have DR DOW: …who were appointed through the United to amend the Constitution. If you want the recruitment Nations process in Kenya. When I was there, no one processes to become public like you mentioned, the ever said I am not an indigenous citizen, where do I Constitution has to be amended. It cannot be amended come from. This is because, sometimes highest courts by us if we so wish nor the President. Motumise’s case need people with diverse views. Are you not aware of should show you that the President cannot do anything these things? regarding appointments of Judges and there is nowhere HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… his wishes can be involved or influence the process in any way unless you, we as Parliament notice that there is MR MTHIMKHULU: That is true Honourable Dow, need to amend this Constitution. The time to review the that is what we have been saying. Let me emphasise the Constitution is coming and when we review it, consult one on America that, when we amended the Constitution Batswana, you will come and add those conditions in to make the Court of Appeal permanent, we wanted to remove the cap of 70 years since we wanted a person the Constitution. If Batswana agree to those conditions, to retire because of infirmity where now he or she is no the Constitution will be amended to spell what you are longer able to discharge his or her duties so that there saying now. is continuity, again we should know that Judges at the highest court in the land should not be disturbed in their There is nowhere the hand of the President is involved duty or have them face uncertainty. and now when you say it is time to retract it, I do not know what you are talking about. You are the very ones When you talk of security of tenure in America, it is who praised Motumise’s case saying it is an indication entrenched, that is the one where I Mthimkhulu not that there is independence of the Judiciary in Botswana, Government, in the past I thought it was the same for and the President wanted to differ with the Judicial us but here we are with a 70 years cap. Like Honourable Dow said, it is important to have Judges from outside Commission but the court of Botswana has differed Botswana so that certain things that we are not well with him. You were praising the courts of Botswana for versed in as she cited diversity of ideas, can assist in demonstrating their independence. Where is the hand or strengthening the jurisprudence of the country. Thank influence of the President there because Motumise says you Mr Speaker. it is not involved, he only signs? Thank you Mr Speaker.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure. Maybe I blame Dr take it from where Honourable Dow left off, if only she Dow for not reminding Honourable Molebatsi. I have could listen. In America, when this Judge is employed, noticed that he keeps standing in a bid to ask questions, there are intense interviews watched by the public. My shake him and tell him that he is now a Minister and he question is, given the numerous complaints around these men and women who are holding these high positions, answers questions, not to ask them. has the time not come for them to be recruited publicly? HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… They should be interviewed by everyone maybe including a Parliament committee of that ministry? That QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE is the first question. STATUS OF PERSONAL PROTECTION The second question, has the time not come to retract the EQUIPMENT IN DISTRICT HEALTH President’s hand. Since you are a lawyer, you are aware MANAGEMENT TEAMS (DHMTs) ACROSS THE that most of the Judicial Service Commission members COUNTRY

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MR D. TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): asked also have 43 ventilators which are specifically used for the Minister of Health and Wellness to update this children in Government hospitals and 20 at Sir Ketumile Honourable House on the status of personal protection Teaching Hospital. All these ventilators are properly equipment and state: functional Honourable and in a good condition. Some of them have been used before. (i) how many face shields or goggles, N95 respirators, non-sterile gloves and isolation gowns are at Concerning the total number of isolation or quarantine different health facilities across the country per centres that we have; we have a total 406 areas and 220 District Health Management Team (DHMT); areas which can accommodate elderly people in the whole country. That is not all, we have also ensured (ii) how many adult ventilators are there at different that these areas are always monitored to make sure that health facilities across the country per DHMT; they are properly functioning. Apart from that, we also (iii) how many infant ventilators are there at different have a contract such that we have someone on stand- health facilities across the country per DHMT; by. This person will be there to assist in case something gets damaged or if there is something which needs to be (iv) of the above, how many are functional and ready replaced. Honourable, I have a list which indicates this for use (adults and infants); and distribution for the whole country but since it is long, I will hand it to you so that you can appreciate it. Thank (v) how many breathing circuits (adults and infants) you. are there at different health facilities across the country per DHMT. MR TSHERE: Supplementary. Thank you very much Honourable Speaker and thank you very much the ACTING MINISTER OF HEALTH AND Acting Minister of Health and Wellness. I understand WELLNESS (DR KWAPE): Thank you Mr Speaker. that we have few equipment which targets where Government is highly prioritising the availability and there is shortage. Unfortunately, Health officials have provision of Personal protective Equipment (PPE) been complaining about this equipment as cases were that is used in the fight against COVID-19 pandemic. increasing in Maun and Mahalapye. If you pay close Therefore, procurement and distribution of this attention, you will realise that this question was targeting equipment to different Ministries across the country is provision of health equipment as recommended by also done based on where there is shortage, especially World Health Organisation (WHO). You have mentioned areas which have mostly been affected by this pandemic. that some of them are going to last for a period of two Currently, this pandemic has greatly affected Gaborone months at most and others two weeks. So going forth, or what we normally term Gaborone zone. when are we expecting to purchase another equipment? The Honourable Member inquired about the numbers I am saying this because we do not yet know what the of this equipment; the face shields or face masks which condition of this pandemic will be in future. covers the whole face except the mouth, the one that Another thing Minister, as the Ministry of Health, how I was warning Honourable Saleshando about last time far are you in terms of COVID-19 vaccine? I am saying are 6, 050 and they will last for two months. We also this because we and Batswana have been working hard have enough goggles about 9, 216 which will last for in terms of taking relevant precautionary measures six months. Furthermore, we have a total of 35, 994 of against COVID-19. We cannot only rely on taking N95 masks. These are the masks which are mostly used precautionary measures but at the end of the day, we by health officials and they might last for two months. must make a provision of COVID-19 vaccine so that our We also have 6, 534 examination gloves which might lives can go back to normal. Thank you. last for a months if they are used accordingly. Lastly, we have 5, 966 personal protective equipment and they DR KWAPE: Thank you Honourable. That is a might last for two weeks. relevant question. We are always monitoring the trend of the spread of COVID-19 so that when distributing Honourable also inquired about the total number of equipment, we would target the epicenter of the ventilators which we have. We have a total of 40 pandemic. You mentioned Mahalapye and Maun as ventilators in Government hospitals and clinics and areas where the spread of this pandemic is increasing 66 ventilators at Sir Ketumile Teaching Hospital. We but we have discovered that it is also multiplying in

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other areas like Jwaneng. Let me give you the assurance which I listed. The important thing is to use it wisely that we are monitoring these things Honourable to as well as make sure that it is provided where there is ensure that enough resources are provided there so shortage. So Honourable, we will follow it up to find that they can assist. Let me also emphasise that, what really happened at Lesirane such that we end up experts are also giving us an estimated update of the with that situation. situation ahead of us in relation to this pandemic. For MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. Thank you Mr this reason, we prepare well in advance to ensure that Speaker, greetings! Explain this Minister; are you aware purchasing is always ongoing. So, this point leads me of the situation at Mamuno, that I talked about last time to the question which inquired about how far we are in and which shows that we are not prepared? Truck drivers terms of purchasing. Let me highlight that purchasing who are waiting for results do not have restrooms. For of necessary equipment is ongoing. We also have to this reason, they are expected to travel a distance of understand that these things are required worldwide about 300 metres in order to access restrooms. Honourable. So, we are expected to queue and wait for our turn. As you know, there is a Committee which is Secondly; it has been two months since these things spearheaded by His Excellency. This Committee meets were reported to you in Parliament, which action did every week in order to assess where we are in terms you take? Should we continue to report these things to of purchasing this equipment. So, they usually give us you while you fail to take action? Why should we place an update about it so that we do not run short on this our lives in your hands? equipment at any time. Here is another one; are you aware of the situation that we have in villages which are located next to the borders Lastly, you asked about COVID-19 vaccine. Honourable, more especially Borolong for instance, where there is a you will recall that we have mentioned in this House makeshift fence and one can simply cross over to visit that research is ongoing worldwide. Some of it is done their relatives and come back again. How do you control in countries like Russia, China, England and America. such situations more especially through security? I am This research is monitored by World Health Organisation saying this because although in Botswana we have (WHO). It is doing that to ensure that countries prepare prohibited the sale of alcohol, there is no such ban in well on time so that COVID-19 vaccine can be evenly other neighbouring countries. It means anyone who distributed when available. This will assist because it wants to drink alcohol is free to cross over and drink will help them to prioritise countries which have been come back. How do you address that situation? affected by COVID-19 more than others instead of In conclusion, the reason there is a rising number of allowing countries which have more money to purchase cases at Jwaneng is due to the issues I just raised which everything. Coming to your question Honourable, this contribute to the spread of the disease, I am not asking is an ongoing process which continues to be monitored you, I am telling you Minister. Thank you. by a Committee that is spearheaded by His Excellency which also meets every Monday. Thank you. DR KWAPE: Thank you Honourable Member. Let me start with your last question where you talked MR GREEFF: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. about borders and movements of people. Honourable Minister, are you aware that some dental clinics from Member, the most important aspect is to relay education Gaborone up to Lesirane, they send people back because about this disease to the public, so we are counting on people who work there do not have PPE? So, what are you not to ask questions in Parliament, you should also you intending to do about this situation Minister? help us educate people about the significance of not crossing the borders because it is not allowed. That is DR KWAPE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable, very important. when this pandemic erupted, provision of dental services is one of the services which were suspended. Provision The same goes to the issue of alcohol consumption; it of special attention was made for emergencies or for has been prohibited and you heard the Minister saying people who are in critical conditions. As we speak, the she will lift the ban today. Although it is now allowed, suspension of provision of dental services has been yesterday the Minister was with other stakeholders uplifted. I am not aware of the issue that you raised but urging us to take responsibility regarding alcohol I will follow it up. All I know is, we have the equipment because, yes we do admit that some people are employed

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in the alcohol industry but if we are irresponsible then must discuss this issue of compensation, it is not only to we are going to go back resulting in job losses and address other problems, but compensating those in the contributing to the spread of the disease. So, I want to line of duty. Do you not think it is important for them to urge Honourable Members to take this issue seriously; be compensated? people should learn and hear from us so that they can understand the health protocols. DR KWAPE: Thank you Mr Speaker. You asked numerous questions but they all centred on the adequacy Testing centre at Mamuno; Honourable, the machine of the Protective Equipment (PPE). Let me return to that is used produces results quickly so that people do my first answer; we are trying by all means possible to not wait for a long time. In addition, Minister Matsheka ensure that they are adequate. is in the process of building a bigger testing centre so that they can have those resources. I want to emphasise The other issue worth mentioning is proper usage and that although you want them quickly Honourable, they education to Batswana at large to follow health protocols cannot be implemented at the blink of an eye, so we are as you can see all of us here wearing face masks. So working around the clock to ensure availability of those part of the responsibility is not on the availability of the resources. equipments but on the usage.

I want to conclude by saying that as we always say, this You also asked if nurses…I think your question was disease should be the responsibility of each and every actually about compensation, when they have contracted Motswana because the economy might decline if we do the virus, are they extended the same treatment as not all play a role in curbing the spread of this disease. other patients. You asked if nurses are offered special Thank you Honourable Member. compensation if they contract the virus in the line of duty. Honourable Member, the Ministry of Health MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Supplementary. and Wellness is working with the Nurses Associations Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, as you all the time, so there are ongoing consultations which can see the spread of the disease increasing across the we cannot discuss here. There is a platform to discuss country, besides Sir Ketumile Masire Hospital, do you those issues to see what action can be taken and this have a contingency plan in place? Thank you. is between the employer and employee, we have not disregarded those issues. DR KWAPE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Member, the answer is yes, there is a contingency plan It is not a long time ago since there was a meeting with in place in case Sir Ketumile gets full. For example at Botswana Nurses Union, we discussed for example, Jwaneng, there is a place to accommodate patients. In upon realising that nurses are contracting the virus in addition, there is a plan to increase the isolation centres large numbers, what action can be taken since they are our front liners when it comes to the fight against this countrywide. Some of the places include Francistown disease. Sometimes when a patient enters a clinic, we and Maun. So we will continue observing the situation do not know their status, so it was decided that patients with your assistance and advising us where we need to should be tested before undergoing certain surgeries improve. or if they are admitted in hospitals. They also practice DR TSHABANG: Supplementary. Thank you Mr social distancing among patients so that they do not Speaker. Honourable Minister, we have nurses and overcrowd to avoid the possibility of the spread in the health care workers who have contracted the virus event someone may have contracted the virus. Thank whilst in the line of duty. We also have Batswana who you. contracted Coronavirus from the hospitals while they STATEMENT went there negative. In your view, do you not think this Protective Equipment (PPE) is not adequate or the BOTSWANA’S ASSUMPTION OF THE health system itself is not good enough to handle the CHAIRSHIP OF THE SADC ORGAN ON situation? So what are you saying about nurses who POLITICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY contracted the virus in the line of duty? Is it business as usual or they are referred to Sir Ketumile Masire MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND then recover like everybody else or from there, there COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): Honourable Speaker, is a special compensation that you give to them? We Honourable Members of Parliament good morning. It

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is a great pleasure for me to have this opportunity to (i) the Ministerial Committee of the Organ (MCO), apprise Parliament on the election of Botswana as the which is the main coordinating committee, under Chair of the Southern African Development Community the Chairship of myself, as the Honourable (SADC) organ on Politics, Defence and Security. The Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation; election was done during the 40th Ordinary Summit of the SADC Head of States and Government which was (ii) the Inter-state Politics and Diplomacy Committee, held virtually on the 17th August 2020. The chairship which is also chaired by myself. This deals with is for a period of one year, commencing this August to governance issues, including democratisation, the August 2021. conduct of elections in the countries in the region, This means that Botswana, as the Chair of the Organ, cooperation among the Governments and disaster will spearhead initiatives and programmes aimed at management; and addressing challenges that could potentially threaten (iii) the last one is the Inter-state Defence and Security peace and security in the region for the next one year. Committee, which deals with issues of instability, As you are aware, the Organ is an important institution intra and inter-state conflicts, police cooperation, of SADC, responsible for the promotion of peace, prevention of cross-border crimes, early warning, security and stability in our region. I need not over- immigration, refugees, correctional services, emphasise the importance we all attach to issues of national parks and wildlife. This is chaired by peace and security, both in our countries and the region the Honourable Minister of Defence, Justice and as a whole. Peace and security are essential in creating Security, Honourable Mr Kagiso Thomas Mmusi. an enabling environment for inter-state cooperation, which provides a platform for member states to develop Mr Speaker, it is also important to note that the Organ common policies and strategies aimed at fostering is coordinated through a Troika system, comprising the economic and social development within the SADC current Chair of the Organ, the Outgoing Chair and the region and beyond. Incoming Chair. The current composition of the Organ Mr Speaker, it is important to note that the mandate Troika is Botswana as the Chair, Zimbabwe as the and objectives of the SADC Organ are clearly captured Outgoing Chair and South Africa as the Incoming Chair. in Botswana’s domestic policies. They have been This means that the three countries will be working incorporated in our National Development Plan, as closely together in dealing with issues before the Organ. well as Vision 2036. Therefore, guiding the work of the Organ is a familiar terrain for us as it encapsulates In this regard, it should be noted that assuming the our resolve in consolidating democracy, accountability, Chairship of the Organ does not in any way make transparency, the rule of law and collective governance. In this regard, we take this assignment as a call to Botswana the “police officer” of the region. It does not uphold and promote these values at the regional level give us the mandate to make unilateral decisions on as basic principles that guarantee human dignity, socio- issues before the Organ, or which countries should be economic development and sustainable peace. included in the agenda of SADC.

It is also pleasing to inform this August House that our Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that there are processes Chairship of the Organ coincides with SADC’s adoption in place, which have served the region well over the of the Regional Indicative Strategy Plan (RISP) 2020- years, regarding how issues or countries come into 2030 and the SADC Vision 2050. As you might be the agenda of SADC. Botswana will remain engaged aware, both these initiatives provide strategic direction in working with the leadership of the countries in the and key interventions which are aimed at further region, in a coordinated manner to overcome challenges deepening integration in the SADC region. As such, and accomplish the region’s goals of ensuring that the these will be among the guiding documents during our citizens of SADC realise the benefits of socio-economic term as Chair of the Organ. and political integration.

As Chair of the Organ, Botswana is expected to Botswana, together with other SADC member states, coordinate, host and chair all the statutory and other will continue to accord attention to security threats meetings of the Organ, including its committees and caused by armed groups in areas such as the eastern sub-committees. The Organ has three main committees, part of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), namely: terrorist or insurgency activities in some parts of the

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region, as well as emerging threats such as maritime (ix) Botswana Prisons Service security, natural disaster management, environmental conservation and wildlife management. (x) Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) Other activities that Botswana will take a lead include the SADC Electoral Observation Missions to the United (xi) Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) Republic of Tanzania and to the Seychelles respectively, (xii) Department of Wildlife and National Parks in October 2020. This is mainly to assist the countries (DWNP). holding elections to observe the SADC Principles and Guidelines Governing Democratic Elections, with a The Committee will play an advisory role to His view to ensure that political stability is maintained in Excellency the President, as the Chairperson of the the region. Organ, on political and security issues in the region requiring the attention of the Organ Troika. Its functions Mr Speaker, to ensure that Botswana effectively include: discharges her mandate as Chair of the Organ, the Government has established a national structure called (i) advising, especially on emerging issues that the SADC Organ National Coordinating Committee require action of the Organ Troika and the modus (SONACC). The Committee is responsible for the operandi to be adopted; coordination of Botswana’s Chairship of the Organ. It (ii) coordinating and ensuring full implementation of comprises the following four Ministers: the decisions of the Organ; (i) Honourable Minister of International Affairs and (iii) facilitating consultations among national Cooperation (Chair); stakeholders on issues before the Organ; (ii) Honourable Minister for Presidential Affairs, In conclusion Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity Governance and Public Administration; to reiterate that Botswana is committed to advance the (iii) Honourable Minister of Defence, Justice and aspirations of SADC to achieve regional cohesion, Security; and solidarity, peace and security through close engagement and cooperation with all the countries in the region, as (iv) Honourable Minister of Nationality, Immigration well as other stakeholders. and Gender Affairs. To that end Mr Speaker, I also wish to call upon this The work of the Committee is facilitated by a Standing House for their support during our tenure as the Chair of Committee of Senior Officials from the following the Organ. I thank you Mr Speaker. ministries and departments: HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… (i) Ministry of International Affairs and Cooperation (Chair) MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, as you are aware, our Standing Orders do allow for (ii) Ministry for Presidential Affairs, Governance and short questions in order to get more clarity on what the Public Administration Honourable Minister has just said. (iii) Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security MR KEORAPETSE: Thank you Honourable Speaker, (iv) Ministry of Nationality, Immigration and Gender thank you Honourable Minister. Honourable Minister, as Affairs Batswana or SADC we are the ones that run it through tax as well as with other countries. It is important that (v) Attorney General’s Chambers every now and then you come to Parliament to account. (vi) Botswana Defence Force (BDF) The first point is obviously to congratulate especially His Excellency on assuming the Chairmanship of the (vii) Directorate on Intelligence and Security Service SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security. Let me (DISS) ask you whether the reform of SADC is on the agenda? (viii) Botswana Police Service We believe that it has to be reformed. There is an issue

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that the Southern African Development Community- DR KWAPE: Oh alright! I understand Honourable Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) should be changed Member, but I did not prepare an answer for that to become the regional Parliament. Is it an issue that question. If the Honourable is adamantly interested in Botswana intends to submit to the summit to be discussed informing himself about it, as he sounds, we can slot it and concluded, so that SADC-PF would be a Regional for another time so that I can give him a comprehensive Parliament just like other Regional Parliaments in the answer. northern parts of Africa? HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Secondly, what was the trade-off? Does this affect our MR LUCAS: I thank you Mr Speaker. The first point is points in terms of the participation of our citizens in that, we are grateful that we were given the Chairmanship SADC, considering positions like Executive Secretary, of the Organ. There is a long standing problem of cross- Deputy and other senior positions, you will recall border crime, which is ongoing in areas like Bobirwa, Honourable Speaker that, we once had the likes of in villages like Semolale, Gobojango and Mabolwe. Simba Makoni, Kaire Mbuende, Augusto Salomão, For about 35 years or so people have been lamenting currently we have Stergomena Lawrence Tax. When about being harassed by people from the neighbouring will we see Batswana assuming these positions? What is countries in terms of crime; and we are aware that you the standing of our points? sometimes engage in dialogue. My question is, what Lastly, I would just like to enquire about the Standby results have those engagements yielded Honourable Force and SADC Brigade, what is the status? Minister, because we can see that the crime has not stopped? Will our Chairmanship enable us to maybe DR KWAPE: I thank you Mr Speaker. I believe what seriously address this matter regarding the rampant crime the Honourable Member said right at the beginning was which is perpetrated by the people from Zimbabwe? a good statement, appreciating the fact that, Botswana has been appointed the Chair of the SADC Organ, and The second one is about SADC principles on the he spoke about how I feel, regarding the reforms. The conduct of elections, that there is a straight forward statement was very clear and it stipulated that Botswana issue that SADC believes that political parties should is assuming the Chairmanship of the Organ. As I have be funded to run for elections, to implement democracy, already explained, we are not going to be a police officer and that election ballots should be counted at the polling of the region; we are just going to be mediators as we stations. How far are we as Botswana regarding these would be in this seat, hearing all sides equally. issues? Are there intensions that as the Chair, we should be exemplary to other countries that we shall You also talked about trade-offs and positions at govern through the principles of SADC that are clearly SADC. When vacancies are available at SADC, they outlined? Thank you. are advertised and people apply as they wish. There is a procedure, and if the Honourable Member wants me DR KWAPE: Yes, Honourable Member you enquired to share it with him, I can look for it and give it to him; about cross-border crime, but I was clear in my statement it outlines the positions one could access depending on that since we would be Chairperson of this Organ, one of where they are in the ladder. I believe the important the things we are paying close attention to is the safety thing that we are supposed to be happy about currently of the SADC countries, as they are. I believe as we shall is that, we have been honoured by being given the be holding the fort, these are things that are going to Chairmanship of the Organ, and that is what I came to be considered Honourable Members, as to what it is we report to this Parliament. are going to do regarding movements, especially now as I did not quite get the Honourable Member clearly, but we are facing COVID-19; they should be safe, people it sounded as if he was talking about the Brigade at… should cross at gazetted places only.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… The other question was, what is it that I am going to do? Honourable Member, I think you are jumping the DR KWAPE: Where? gun, let us wait and hear how issues will unfold; we will HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… listen and take an appropriate decision.

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Regarding what we think about political funding and DR KWAPE: I thank you for your interventions democracy, if I heard you properly, I believe if there are Honourable Member. The Honourable Member did the issues that are to be taken to the Organ, it will happen. right thing by interjecting because she is my immediate The most important thing that the Honourable Member predecessor; that is the reason why we need the wisdom should remember is that, we want political stability in and knowledge from those who were there before us, I our region. So if we start with that aspect, probably thank you Honourable Dr Dow. those that would allow for that stability to prevail would be discussed there. The one concerning posts; let me say this, Botswana is a country which values consultation. Honourable Dow DR DOW: I thank you my colleague, Honourable was asking if when a position comes we allow everyone Minister for that statement, it is very critical for you to apply or we select people to go and fill those positions. to keep this Parliament abreast with issues. Allow me I believe that that one is up to us here in this House. I to ask a question which is somewhat related to what believe that as Botswana, we have to agree on how we Honourable Keorapetse asked, about why we have never are going to fill those positions when opportunities come seen a Motswana at Executive Secretary (ES) level, he our way. wanted to know where Batswana are. You responded by Honourable Dow also asked about Southern African saying, these positions are advertised, and then people Development Community (SADC) Observer Mission. apply. I just wanted to say, if anyone is interested in I talked about Seychelles and Tanzania, we are facing SADC, they would be glad to know that in the near the COVID-19 pandemic but we are still observing how future that vacancy will be open; the first and second things will unfold. I can give an example that, nowadays positions. Therefore, my question is, in Botswana we countries hold virtual meetings, this corresponds with just openly advertise, and everybody applies, whereas our objectives as Botswana, that we are going to improve in other countries they narrow it; for you to be there you our technology so that it can drive developments. I do should have some points, because right now Botswana not want to move ahead of it. It is here before us, we might not be having points to allow a Motswana to are still assessing how we are going to implement that assume that post or the second one. So, do you not see initiative. As the chairperson of Ministerial Committee it fit for us to start, maybe we should be undemocratic of the Organ (MCO), I will be chairing that committee. like some countries such that, when lower positions When that issue is discussed, we will focus on it, we come, we should constrict them so that we save the top will also take into consideration the situation we will be most position, because that is a balance we should strike in, as well as what we are going to do moving forward. whether we are opening the entire Organ or we constrict As those countries have set a date that they will have it at the bottom so that the positions at the top would elections in October, they will have to update us about open up. Have you not considered that point? the situation. This takes me back to the consultation issue that I talked about. You have explained that you will also be the Chairperson for the SADC Electoral Observer Mission (SEOM), Dr Dow stressed the issue of funding, asking about leading it. Currently as we are facing the COVID-19 whether we want the political parties to be funded. I pandemic, what are your programmes in terms of believe that we have not discussed it here, so after we observing, but not being far because we do not know discuss it in the form of consultation, the decision which how things are going to unfold? we will take as a country will be something which has Lastly, you were asked a question, it did not have been approved by all stakeholders, we cannot just take to do with the Constitution, and it was in regard to decisions without consulting as a country. Thank you political funding, whether we want the political parties Mr Speaker. to be funded. He is correct when he says it is one of MR LESASO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Minister, I the things that are captured in the past SADC reports; heard your presentation and I have two questions that countries were requested to look into it. Earlier on when I would like to ask you. Disaster management; recently you started, you said our vision is similar to that of we heard about an environmental disaster which erupted SADC, so maybe we shall arrive there when we make at Mauritius... a Constitutional review of Botswana. I will end that far Honourable Minister. HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible) …

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MR LESASO: Mauritius where an oil tank from The third question… Japan burst. I do not know how Southern African Development Community (SADC) is involved when DR DOW: Point of procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. it comes to helping Mauritius to go and combat this I know the topic is very interesting, but I think we disaster because it is a national food security threat are going beyond the scope of the statement that was when oil leaks this much…(Inaudible)... into the ocean. delivered in this House; short clarifying questions related to the statement which relates to Botswana’s The second question is, Botswana has a huge population chairship of the Organ on Justice, Politics and Security of elephants; they are becoming a national security threat Cooperation, not bilateral relations with any nation in again in agriculture and the flora . They also pose a threat the world. I thank you Mr Speaker. to humans who deal with them. Minister, do you not see it important to have one voice as SADC to represent HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… the issue of elephants at Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), handling this MR SPEAKER: Yes, there is a fine line there when the issue together as a community of neighboring countries Minister spoke about how they will be cooperating not so that you can try to reduce the number of elephants at any individual basis, from country to country, but as especially in Southern Africa? SADC, indeed they are not policing anybody. I agree DR KWAPE: Thank you Honourable. You were talking with Honourable Unity Dow. about natural disasters. The first question that you Honourable Dr Gobotswang, try to contain yourself asked is about what is being done to assist Madagascar. I believe that some arrangements have been made. The to the statement made by the Minister, so that he can way SADC is organized, it has different committees so clarify the things he said, not foreign affairs generally. there are committees which deal with those things. I MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure. We are always believe that as an organisation, SADC played its role to attentive when the Minister debates; when concluding, try and ensure that people at Madagascar are not greatly he said, let me take this opportunity to reiterate affected by that situation. Botswana’s commitment to advance the aspirations of HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mauritius! SADC to achieve regional cohesion, solidarity, peace and security through close engagement and cooperation DR KWAPE: The issue of elephants; what we are with all other countries in the region, as well as other thinking and what you are thinking. When you are here stakeholders. This is against the backdrop Honourable in this House, I believe that you are in a good position to Gobotswang is asking his question. come up with ideas so that the relevant Minister and other MR SPEAKER: That is why I said there is a fine line, ministers like the one for Agricultural Development but I still asked Honourable Dr Gobotswang to try and and Food Security can sit down and talk to see what to limit and focus on the really issue that we are taking do since it seems like most elephants are found in our over the Chairmanship, what do we intend to achieve country, so that when we discuss these issues with our as chair? counterparts at SADC, we would know where we are coming from, for the sake of food production and human DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. As life safety. I believe that you are not asking a question chair, do you realise that COVID-19 pandemic has the but rather advising about which areas we should focus potential to disturb international relations? I noticed this on when moving forward. Thank you Mr Speaker. last time when truck drivers from South Africa mobilized and threatened blockade of goods into Botswana. Do HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary question. you realise that this is one of the things that we have to pay attention to? Thank you MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang! DR KWAPE: Thank you Honourable. His first question DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let was about our relationship with South Africa. I explained us talk about the elephant in the room. How are our in my statement that in the organ, South Africa is the relations with South Africa affected? That is the first incoming chair, this means that we are three; we have an question. This issue of international relations should be outgoing chair, then there is Botswana and South Africa. influenced by a codified foreign policy. I do not know Our relation is smooth and it should be smooth like that how far we are with that one; is it still there? if we want to achieve everything that we want.

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You talked about COVID-19, the current arrangement Mr Speaker, since then, the... is that countries should have relations, they should hold ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL hands as you know that there is a Setswana idiom which DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS says, “fifing go tshwaranwa ka kobo” meaning that in MANAKE): Procedure Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr hard times, people should help each other. You have Speaker. I see that the time is very short for the presenter, noticed that we recently experienced a shortage of fuel, is it a mistake you have just given him five minutes? we were not receiving enough fuel but now the situation is back to normal. This is one example that we still have MR SPEAKER: Nothing to do with it. I am using my good relations. watch.

Yesterday you talked about Foreign Policy on 5.1.1. We MR THIITE: Mr Speaker, since then, BMC has been are finalising foreign policy document by the end of this the primary market for farmers across the country year. Therefore, as time goes on, we will be in a better through cooperatives and individuals, thus making the beef industry profitable to an ordinary Motswana back position to report where Botswana is in terms of foreign then. Until 1972, agriculture was contributing about 50 policy posture. Thank you Mr Speaker. per cent to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). It was MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister. more labour intensive, hence creating jobs and direct Order! Order! Honourable Members, I understand that benefits to Batswana families. It was later after this year, that the mining sector was discovered, in particular, Honourable Thiite has an urgent Motion in terms of the diamond industry. Mr Speaker, Botswana remains Standing Order 50.1. He wants to move an urgent amongst the few countries in Africa who has access to Motion. the lucrative European market, which my Government MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT- has spent considerable amount of capital and investment to maintain. Ironically, today the industry is unprofitable DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC and agriculture contributes only 2.5 per cent to the GDP. IMPORTANCE One wonders what really transpired for this nation to Regulation of the beef industry find itself in this dire straits.

MR THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): Thank you Mr Mr Speaker, the real fact today is, access to the Speaker and morning Members of Parliament. Mr European Union (EU) market comes with a high price as traceability is a priority due to the sophisticated Speaker, I stand in terms of Standing Order 50.1 to consumers, who want to understand where the food ask leave from this Honourable House to move the they are eating is coming from, including how it was adjournment of the current proceedings of the Assembly produced. EU traceability requirements came with a for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent very heavy price to the farmers on the ground, which public importance, being the Motion on regulation of heavily impacted badly on the... the beef industry. MR SPEAKER: Be careful, you are going to run out of Mr Speaker, it is a matter of fact and undisputable, time because they should agree with you. that Batswana have been farmers and food producers MR THIITE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, beef before independence. In particular, Batswana used to remains the only African commodity that Botswana is barter their cattle with essential items with the British. exporting significantly, which aligns with our pledge The quality of cattle then was very poor, which forced for an export-led economy, further to the good animal the then British Protectorate to provide levies and husbandry. Price increase will enable a decline on beef artificial insemination to improve the quality of cattle being condemned due to measles, which is estimated to so that they can sell their beef to Britain. With time, be at 6 per cent. Mr Speaker, in conclusion, a Statutory British Protectorate established what was then called Instrument can be issued under the State of Emergency Bechuanaland Meat Commission (BMC), which (SOE) to allow for fair prices for farmers across provided the market for farmers where they could Botswana. I therefore move accordingly. exchange cattle with money. MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure Mr Speaker. Mr Mr Speaker, in 1965, Bechuanaland Meat Commission Speaker, I request that, notwithstanding the provisions was transformed to the now Botswana Meat Commission of the Standing Orders, maybe you can take two this and at this point, an economic transition was realised. side and two that side to get the feel of the House before

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you put the question. I plead with you sir. I know the the Motions that are there later. Mr Speaker, we have Standing Orders are very clear that you need to put to prioritise this Motion because it affects all of us, the question. I am appealing to you that perhaps, you especially some of us who come from Constituencies could get the feel from the other side of the aisle and which have many people who keep cattle. this side of the aisle. I am saying this in line with what His Honour the Vice President has pleaded for before. I MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Thank you Mr thank you. Speaker. Without wasting time, this Motion is very important and has come at the right time. This Motion MR SPEAKER: You might be pleading in vain. compels us to set Parliament business aside so that we can Honourable Members, you have heard the plea by debate it. It does not only belong to Honourable Thiite Honourable Thiite, that the proceedings be suspended alone but Batswana at large have been affected and they to allow for a discussion of a definite matter of urgent are crying. Mr Speaker, yesterday I bought pasteurella public importance in terms of Standing Order 50.1. That medicine, just a small bottle costs P1 200. This is a clear is his Motion, which concerns the price paid for part indication that, Batswana are really in trouble because of the beef. I think he was clear. Like I did the other that medicine is used to vaccinate cattle just once and time when there was such a Motion, my own view is the medicine will be finished. So this Motion does not that it does not make sense to ask Members to vote on a require us to debate it based on our party affiliation as Motion without any other Member other than the mover some Members usually do. We normally pay attention to saying anything about it. That is what I said last time. issues presented before us and set our eyes on the ball as Honourable Keorapetse, maybe you were not there, that you would say, because we have realised that, if we can is what I said. I also said that if the House does not agree, debate it or oppose it based on who it was presented by, then the committee charged with dealing with decisions then Batswana are going to suffer. Therefore, we support of the Speaker, which are not in accordance to any given the Motion Mr Speaker. provision, it will come and tell me that they do not agree. I want to hear because I agree with Honourable Thiite. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, That is why he is here. This matter is urgent and to me, the question is that the proceedings be suspended to it is important for Batswana, but that is the two of us. allow for a discussion of a definite matter of urgent We should hear what you have to say before you vote, public importance in terms of Standing Order 50.1. whether you want to allow an adjournment to discuss Question put and agreed to. this one or not. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Thiite, you can present MR MAJAGA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, your Motion as quickly as you can, the House agrees I humbly submit that Honourable Thiite proceeds with with you so... his Motion before this House. Mr Speaker, we are aware that the beef industry, two/three years back even up to MR THIITE: Let me thank this Honourable House for now, has been facing challenges that affected Batswana. considering the tabling of my Motion. Therefore, I find it befitting to have this Motion debated HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)… as a matter of importance and on urgency basis. Thank you. MR THIITE: Mr Speaker, the intransability requirements came with a heavy price to the farmer MR HIKUAMA: Thank you Honourable Speaker. I on the ground, which heavily impacted badly on the believe that this Motion came at an opportune time and smallholder farmers who are concentrated on communal it should therefore be approved by all of us on both sides areas. Unfortunately Mr Speaker, 80 per cent of our of the aisle. Right now we are feeling the pinch of the country national herd or cattle that are slaughtered at effects of Corona, farmers continue selling their products the Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) are from these but not making enough profits. This is why I support this very small farmers who rear cattle in communal areas Motion. It is very important for us to debate it. countrywide, and thus making the backbone of the ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND cattle industry. This cattle farming environment and WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you Mr setting renders the majority cattle in the country non- Speaker. Just like Honourable Majaga, I was looking at European Union (EU) compliant until they are taken to the Order Paper and realised that we can actually debate an EU compliant facility which are mostly fenced farms

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or feedlots. There is no doubt Mr Speaker, that these stimulated the local beef industry as prices fetched circumstances premise the early industry problems. Mr were comparative and it sent a shocking wave across Speaker, to meet the EU standards, the BMC came out the length and breadth of the country to the farmers as with a programme called Direct Cattle Purchase (DCP), they have never received it from the local market. The where they bought weaners aged 12 to 18 months average low price offered was P19 per kg as farm gate from farmers and they contracted them to the feeders price, and the highest fetched price was at P23 per kg commonly known as feedlotters to finish and ready them farm gate price, which gave farmers hope. This price for slaughter in a period of three months. This was done difference was because some farmers sold to agents and in an effort to make it possible to communal farmers’ some organised farmers managed to negotiate for direct produce to be able to comply to the EU standards sales. protocols. Mr Speaker, my able Government facilitates all these through the BMC faithfully in order that no Mr Speaker, immediately after the closure of the borders Motswana farmer is left out, but remains relevant in for live export prices dropped to between P12 to P9 per the beef industry and comply with the EU standards kg, thus unprofitable to the farming community. protocols. It is important to note that the production cost do not The requirements amongst these are identification tags, align with the current prices, thus making beef farming Botswana Animal Information and Traceability System a non-profit venture, discouraging farmers to continue (BAITS) registration which combined, come at a cost to investing in it as there is no return on investments. the farmer at almost P100 per a cow or per weaner to be Further note Mr Speaker, that during the year 2020, processed. farmers were unable to sell their cattle during the winter Mr Speaker, it is very important to note that the price season, which is believed to be the right time to sell for the weaner above 250 kilogrammes (kg) was P12.50 cattle as they would have the right body condition to since 2008 and it has been constant, and rather declining, fetch better weights for slaughter or feeding, due to the to date reaching the lowest at P9 per kg, which is 12 COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns. years later. Thus farmers are depressed and losing faith in the industry. My plea Mr Speaker, is for this House to resolve on assisting farmers by increasing the price of weaners During 2010, it is estimated that the national herd was to P19 per kg so as to motivate farmers and encourage around P3.1 million, and it has declined to a record them to be part and parcel of the economic revitalisation low of about P1.6 million in 2019. This trajectory has of the cattle industry and the motivation strategy for the been alluded to and observed in His Excellency the increase of the national herd. This also allows the farmers President’s State of the Nation Address (SONA) on the an opportunity to be economically stable and finance 18th of November 2019, at the First Meeting of the First Session of the 12th Parliament. better animal husbandry methods. This will apply to all public and private abattoirs, local butcheries, meat Mr Speaker, in my view, I am inclined to refer to these processors and other cattle buyers, including feedlotters. catastrophic circumstances, a disaster waiting to happen to the beef industry and nation, this Parliament needs to Mr Speaker, beef remains the only agricultural rise in one voice and rescue this situation. commodity that Botswana is exporting significantly which aligns with our pledge for an export led economy. Mr Speaker, the current weaner price locally does Further to good animal husbandry the price increase not reflect the EU market, which is sought outby will enable a decline on meat being condemned due to most countries that trade with beef commodities as measles, which is estimated to be at 6 per cent loses in it is believed to be offering comparative prices in the the industry as reported by the Minister of Environment, global market. The prices are also not at parity with Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism in her regional prices despite our high complying standards in presentation for sustainable environment. This will worldwide renowned quality of produce. impact positively on people’s lives.

Mr Speaker, in the year 2019 from September to March In conclusion Mr Speaker, the African Union Agenda 2020, as part of reducing the impact of drought locally, 2063, the Malabo Declaration and Botswana Democratic a Cabinet Directive was issued to allow for live export Party (BDP) Manifesto, pledge for wealth creation of cattle to neighbouring countries, and this move through agribusiness and getting the right price for the

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farmer will deliver such. A Statutory Instrument can be of P12 which is low is just a symptom of the existing issued under the State of Emergency, to allow for fair challenge. The problem is, there is a lot of structural prices for farmers across the country. I therefore, move problems in the beef production which makes it seem accordingly. like the problem is with the price whereas there are a lot of problems which need to be solved in order to increase HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… the price. Perhaps after solving the problems you are MR SPEAKER: Honourable Thiite, move your Motion. going to find that P19 is too low maybe the actual price should be P30, P35 or even P50 looking at the quality of MR THIITE: I so move accordingly Mr Speaker. our beef. I do admit that, there is a lot of problems we need to solve. MR SPEAKER: The floor is open. Although I indicated that the Government has no right to MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL regulate prices, as a ministry, we decided that we have to DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR hold consultations with this stakeholders in this sector, GARE): Thank you Mr Speaker. who are the farmers. We need to plan a meeting with MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, the relevant stakeholders in order to review this price we have now been here for two hours, and as Honourable and set it at a standard where at least a farmer can make Greeff says, we have to obey COVID-19 Protocols. We profit. So that is our plan, we are trying to increase the adjourn for 30 minutes, and then come back. price, we hope that everything goes well in the next three months, maybe then the price will no longer be P12. PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 11:05 A.M. FOR We could not stand here and reject this Motion because APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES we are planning to do something. We believe that we PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 11:33 A.M. will benefit from the debates of our colleagues as they represent the people: they are representing people and …Silence… different farmers in all areas of Botswana. Although I earlier indicated that, we had no right to do so, we are MR SPEAKER: We are quorated Honourable Members. currently scrutinising to see if there is no instrument Honourable Minister Gare has the floor, but before you which can help us to regulate prices, and so on to avoid having the same problems that we have been incurring. continue Honourable Minister, let me suggest this to the House. If it turns out as I hope it will do, that there is As a ministry, we are currently assessing if we cannot agreement on this Motion, we should not take two hours have an instrument called meat regulator or meat on it. If two members this side and two from the other industry regulation which will be regulating all kinds of side can support him, we should be done with it and meat including poultry in terms of traceability, quality assurance, standards and exports. As I indicated, we will proceed. Honourable Gare. be depending on the advice of Members of Parliament MR GARE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me start by so that our efforts can yield a product which can satisfy thanking Member of Parliament Thiite for tabling the and benefit Motswana or farmer. Motion. As the ministry or rather the Government we So… accept it, we cannot deny that the cattle industry has challenges. Our farmers are unable to make profit from MR MOATLHODI: Clarification Mr Speaker. Thank their cattle. They sell cattle at P12 per/kg which cannot you Mr Speaker, thank you very much Honourable cover the costs used to prepare the cattle for the market. Minister. You said you are assessing; mmutlwa wa Currently, they are under stress and pressure, because noko o rotolwa ke o mongwe so I am interested in that the price is far below what the market should actually assessment. When did it commence and when is it going be offering. to be completed Minister? We are concerned about the low cattle prices as if one is selling a rabbit. Let me indicate that, the cattle industry is a free market, we do not regulate prices as the Government. MR GARE: Thank you Honourable Member. I concur We are governed by what happens at Botswana Meat with you that we are concerned about these ridiculously Commission (BMC). If BMC has challenges or the low prices as if one is selling chicks whereas we are prices drop, it affect the farmers. In our view the price selling cattle. As I indicated, the ministry should not

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partake in this assessment alone. We believe that cattle I was about to conclude. Let me indicate that there is no farming is a business and one does not keep cattle for the way we will disagree with Honourable Thiite’s Motion fun of it. At the end of the day, the main aim is to make and I am emphasizing the fact that the problem is not profit. As I pointed out that it is a business, which means the price like I was saying. We have many problems, that there are a lot of people that we should involve to which we have long experienced in that farmers do not assist us to analyse this issue, and most important is benefit much from their livestock. I believe that when the farmers that we have on the programme. What I the farmers get profit from their cattle, we will no longer can assure you is that in three months, we hope, which see cattle in traffic lights because people will take care is November, we will have a complete solution. As I of them, knowing that there is value in cattle. If we are was saying, the issue of prices according to me is not still crossing paths with cattle in traffic lights, it shows a problem, it is just a symptom that there are many that even their value is no longer recognised. For now, problems. Structurally, there are many problems that we we are still on that process and we welcome advice from should resolve, and know that the solution we get there Honourable Members, they are coming up with ideas is permanent and that we will not be back here again in that we have included in the programme we have now, future, saying we are reviewing prices. We have to look which will maybe assist us so that upon its completion, at all the problems and make sure that we come up with it is a product or decision that will benefit people. Mr an effective solution. Speaker…

We understand that currently farmers are under the MR MMOLOTSI: Clarification. Thank you Mr pressure that cattle are losing mass, they do not know Speaker. Honourable Thiite is proposing P19.00 and where they can take them. So, we are reviewing you are saying that the exercise that you are undertaking everything, we are not focusing on price only, we are might yield P34.00/P35.00. Will it be wrong to agree also reviewing ways to ease the challenges farmers with this particular Motion, and then when things go well are facing. That is why I am saying we can complete with the P34.00/P35.00, then prices can be increased to this whole process in three months or in November the right price, which will be determined by the situation Honourable Member. at that time?

MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification. Honourable MR GARE: I thank you Honourable Member. I do Minister, I am assuming that what Honourable Thiite is not think it will be appropriate to stand here as the saying here is that Parliament should request Government Honourable Minister alone, when I have shown that in to intervene to regulate the beef industry by increasing this restoration programme I am not alone. I am with the weaner tollies price from P12.00 to P19.00 p/kg, in different stakeholders including even the farmers. If I order to make it competitive to the regional industry that ranges around P23.00 per kilogram. Do you agree with agree with P19.00, I assume that the process we were what Honourable Thiite is saying? undertaking is complete. So, I do not want to confine myself to P19.00. Allow us to complete the process MR GARE: Thank you Honourable Member, thank you that I told you will be completed in three months so Mr Speaker. Maybe we did not understand each other that when we implement, it is something that we will Honourable Member. I absolutely agree with all my not go back to and keep on saying we need to review heart this price is not okay, it is too low. I also said we something. Like I was saying, it is an issue that requires have already began a programme which we believe that consultation and involves different stakeholders. So, upon its completion, we will not be talking about P19.00. Maybe we will be talking about P30.00 or P35.00. So, I it would not be right for me to stand here and say as cannot confine myself to P19.00 today saying we agree the Honourable Minister of Agriculture, I agree with with P19.00 because I am still in talks with the farmers, P19.00, when I know that people are watching me, they and all the relevant stakeholders to look into this issue are waiting for me to report back to them that I was at which I am telling you we will complete in three months, Parliament and this is what Members of Parliament said, so that upon its completion, we will say a farmer will get so let us cater or provide for their suggestions in this P20.00, P30.00 or whatever the amount maybe with the way. I was about to conclude, I agree that prices should agreement we will have. I agree with him but I cannot be reviewed but allow me, advise us on the programme say to you that I confine myself to P19.00 sir. I think that that we are facilitating in order to review this issue I have answered you Honourable Member. because like I was saying, it is not an issue of price only.

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There are many problems that are there that are affecting requesting Government to intervene, it is insolvent. The this sector. Let us come up with ideas that can assist us question is, as it is insolvent like it is now, can it afford so that in the end, our farmers will be smiling all the way this money? The answer is that it cannot afford this to the bank, the way we are expecting them to get that money. If it cannot afford this money, what do we do? from their cattle. Thank you Mr Speaker. Should we just fold our arms and do nothing? That is why we are saying let us look into this issue extensively. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… If BMC cannot afford this money because it is insolvent, MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Thank you Mr it owes farmers a lot of money. Yesterday someone Speaker. I stand here to say we agree with the Motion called, and I informed the Minister that that person is that was presented by Honourable Thiite. We do not owed P8 million, the other one is owed a lot of money, want to disagree with it and we will never be like others and they departed from this earth still being owed by the who just say no to Motions because the mover is from BMC. So allow the BMC to open its doors, let it cross Kgalagadi or because they are from a certain political the borders because it does not manage, the Government party. We are looking at what is affecting Batswana as should open the borders so that Batswana would be a whole. Batswana as a whole Honourable Members able to sell in Namibia, South Africa and other places, are concerned about the issue of price. Honourable including Europe, where people can make a livelihood, Members, let us put aside the issue that is mentioned rather than making Batswana suffer in that manner. by Honourable Thiite of the amount; P12.00, P19.00 The other important issue is that when the Honourable or P25.00, then we have to say since way back, I have Minister reviews this matter, we do not want to only known a cow to be sold for P3000.00. I married and paid focus on the feedlot, weaners and the tolly. Honourable the bride price at Mochudi in 1993 and a cow was said to Minister, when you review this matter, as you have said be P3000.00, even now it is said to be P3000.00. Even you are in the process; we are saying get ideas from us weaners as you heard Honourable Thiite saying that and consider the farmers who are keeping their livestock from way back, it has been P12.00 per kilogram for beef, in communal land. There is quite a number of them who even now that is still the case Honourable Members. have many herds of cattle, not only a particular group of Let us think about farmers, the poor people are facing people whom when they are described, they are called a lot of challenges. I do not want to cite technicalities cattle barons or the affluent. Therefore, we should not to disagree with this great idea. This Motion the way just look at this point. We should consider all Batswana it is, when the meat regulator or the person mentioned in general, and ensure that they benefit. The price of a here says “the Government intervenes to regulate the beast is very low. beef industry,” when they regulate, they will realise that it is true P19.00 is low, and maybe increase to P23.00. Honourable Minister as you look at this matter, pay close What is very important is that when a Motion comes attention to this very important issue; the reason why I here, Honourable Ministers should take advice from am saying this Motion by Honourable Thiite is important this respectable House of Parliament. Just taking advice is because we are in a crisis, Batswana have gotten some like we have been saying that these people have been loans at Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency suffering from way back, that is the most important (CEDA) and National Development Bank (NDB) to buy thing. They should know that as they are consulting, farms and cattle, trying to improve the agriculture sector. another consultation is when issues will be debated in Now when they try to sell to the BMC, zero, they do not this House of Parliament. get anything. When they try to sell to BMC, they end Expenses of rearing cattle are very high. Cattle nowadays up waiting for six months without getting paid. What need medication. A single bottle of mixed pasteurella is is going on? Remember there used to be a programme said to be P1200.00. you also have to feed cattle. Now where BMC would buy your cattle, after doing so they when you add up all these expenses, what are your would pay you and you would enjoy your monies. At a returns going to be? A farmer is left with nothing. That later time when you least expected, you would be told is just ripping off farmers which is very sad. you still have some more monies to be paid; and we The other issue that we should address Honourable would enjoy those bonuses. That is how things were. It Minister and Honourable Members is that Botswana was a time when the likes of Honourable Rakgare were Meat Commission (BMC), even though we are still young. We would like such things to be there even

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now, such that after selling, you would enjoy the extra The last point Honourable Thiite, is that you should bonuses. Honourable Members, the way things are now; pay close attention; on this side we are literally in it is not good at all. Government. When you come with good ideas, we embrace them; we do not oppose them. You on that side Honourable Minister, I heard you clearly saying you are opposers; you oppose everything that we bring to should be given a chance to go and make a review. We the table… would like to give you that chance Honourable Minister by agreeing with this Motion. When we support this HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... Motion, I would like you to change your mindset that when you come to this House, when Motions are MR RAMOGAPI: Now Batswana are watching you presented you should stop saying ‘we are still in the and wondering how you are running the Government. process, it is in the pipeline!’ When are you going to They said we should assist them to run the Government finish ‘assembling’ your pipeline…know that when but when we come with ideas, they oppose them. What some Motions come here, it is still another process of kind of Government is this? So be wary of the fact consultation. We should not just oppose Motions saying, that we govern together; you are ruling, but there is no ‘we are in the process! It is on the way…’ country that can run without the opposition.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MANAKE): Point of elucidation. I thank you (MR AUTLWETSE): I thank you Mr Speaker. This Honourable Member, thank you Mr Speaker. You Motion as presented by my colleague, the Honourable are on the right track Honourable Ramogapi, but the Member of Parliament for Ghanzi North, Honourable Honourable Minister did not say he is opposing the Thiite, I am grateful for it. I deem it fit to support it. Motion. He agrees with you, as he explained that indeed Mr Speaker ‘experience is the best teacher’ (setlhako se the prices are not proper. Maybe today I can say they fisa yo o se rweleng). The constituency where I come should be this much, and it ends there, when maybe the from, which is central, North East and part of the North market promises something better, which could be a West; the collapse of abattoirs or slaughter houses better income. Let me briefly explain something as to has impoverished us. Most of us would not seek to be how weaners operate because the weaners market that registered under the destitute persons programme. In has been sought is outside the country. So the weaner the past years, we knew that in the Central District and production and feedlots have been created to encompass North East, people would see new vehicles being bought or cater for the small holder farmers which are at the by cattle barons. They bought the Chevrolet, Land cattle posts, that their cattle would be of a certain quality, Cruiser, and the Massey Ferguson tractors cash, without and would be sold at a better price to the European engaging the NDB and CEDA. Nowadays because of the Union (EU). I thank you Mr Speaker. prices that I heard the Honourable Member mentioning, that they have been stagnant for a long time; they were MR RAMOGAPI: You know if you can align yourself overtaken by the prices of the machines or implements. to the BDP, you are in trouble …(Laughter!)…Thank you Farmers are not able to drill boreholes; they are not able Honourable Assistant Minister Beauty. The important to buy engines for their boreholes. They are no longer matter is that I heard that you are in the process of able to buy vehicles; they are driving jalopies due to the amending, Honourable Minister and that we should give stagnant herd prices. you a period of three months. We are not against this, the Some Batswana have lost jobs. We used to have main issue is that we are saying all these Motions that companies like Thusano Cattle Agency, also having the come here, the Ministers have been saying, ‘No, we are likes of John Pickles and K.N. Grobler who were the in the process, we are amending.’ Underline this; know cattle agency. They transported the cattle for Batswana; that in Parliament, it is where you can get the views they followed them at the cattle posts, even those with of the people because we are representing the people. fewer cattle and they took them to the train station. The We are representing many constituencies, and when a collapse of these abattoirs resulted in the collapse of Motion comes here and you take the reasons advanced, those companies. So today when a Motion like this one as you have been hearing how we are supporting, and comes, there is no way we cannot support it. I liked the others opposing, it is another part of crucial consultation. clarification that was made by the Honourable Minister,

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that it is still in the plan, that he is still putting things in MR AUTLWETSE: … by doing a follow up to see order. I agree with him that things are still being put in where the shortcomings are coming from. Like the order or things will be put in order. As you are still in Honourable Member said, we cannot applaud the P19.00 the process of putting things in order, let us try to relieve price which the mover of this Motion is proposing, it is people from the hunger that they are facing. Botswana low but it is better than nothing. At least we will be a functioned well as she was before without things like the step ahead when better prices are presented. Special Economic Zones. In the Central District, in the North East, we were not arable farmers, we were pastoral The Bobonong price which he is talking about farmers, and we reared cattle. The people of Ghanzi did corresponds with the price at my constituency; Serowe not grow crops, they were cattle farmers. The Southern, Marketing Cooperative Society, which bought cattle from farmers. When all cooperatives collapsed, it Kweneng, Kgatleng, let me say the south of Dibete, are continued operating because it bought cattle from the ones who were serious arable farmers. Even up to farmers. All Consumer Cooperatives collapsed even in today, that is the case. Even myself, I do not know much towns. I believe that even in Gaborone all Consumers about growing crops, but when we talk about rearing of Cooperatives collapsed because of chain stores. The livestock, I am one of the people who can share some only one which survived is the one which has a butchery. views and opinions, and when I do people, would It is also surrounded by issues of closure because prices actually listen but the truth of the matter is, low prices of are low, nowadays it has not created many jobs like in cattle have impoverished us, they are outdated. I plead the past when cattle prices were still reasonable. No with you Minister, while you are still in the process of one is saying that the P19.00 price is suitable, it is not putting things in order, we should implement what this suitable but it is better than nothing. There is a Setswana Motion is emphasising. There is Setswana idiom which idiom which says “Lemme ga le bolae, go bolaya says, “semaoto se letwa tseleng” meaning that you wait lefifi” meaning that little is always better than nothing. while still doing something. It seems like cattle owners… nowadays to pay herd boys… people who are not working are losing their herd HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. boys because they do not afford to pay them. MR AUTLWETSE: There is too much heat where we For some of us who reside at the Sandveld, when you are. I yield, but please do not take too much of my time. meet someone at the veld and you see them driving a MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification. Thank new car, just know that it is a business car if he/she is a you Mr Speaker. Thank you Honourable Kgotla Kenneth businessperson and if he/she is a Government employee, Autlwetse… just know that it is a scheme car. Cattle prices are low. If we are going to talk like this, bringing our party HONOURABLE MEMBER: The father to? affiliations to this discussions, we will be out of order. MR MOATLHODI: …Tirelo’s father. I would like to ask you to support this Motion. Let us adopt this Motion while waiting for the amendment that HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… is going to be proposed by the Honourable Member. Thank you Honourable… MR MOATLHODI: His Honour the Vice President, when you ululate and glorify the P19.00 price, do you HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. realise that Bobonong Cooperative Society which I will MR AUTLWETSE: …Mr Speaker. praise all the days of my life as I have a farm there, has always been buying cattle at the price of P23.00 per kg. MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you Honourable Honourable Minister, today when you say that BMC Speaker. I rise to point out that I support the Motion is going to buy cattle at the price of P19.00 per kg, do that has been moved by the Honourable Member of you not think that maybe it will be best to dissolve the Parliament for Ghanzi North. I support it because it current BMC and form it afresh? gives us the opportunity to assess the challenges that the beef industry is faced with, more especially the price of MR AUTLWETSE: I cannot dissolve BMC, I build cattle. Although I do not know what triggered this price, what has been damaged… I will support it because I support the idea to assess and HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… amend prices.

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The other thing that compels me to accept this Motion Boer associates who are doing business at the farms, which is moved by Member of Parliament for Ghanzi having feedlots so that they can also exploit Batswana. North is that I am a Member of the Botswana Congress I do not believe that he moved this Motion from that Party (BCP) of Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), angle. I believe that his aim is to ensure that every which values social democracy. Social democracy is an Motswana who has cattle can be able to enjoy the profits economic model which does not allow the private sector of his/her cattle. That is what I believe. I do not want to do as they please, it emphasises that the Government to believe that he wants to protect a certain group of should also play a role. When a Motswana is exploited, business people who want to exploit Batswana. I do not he/she has to be protected. I believe that this Motion believe that. corresponds with the idea that we should not give all the powers to the sector and those who exploit Batswana. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. They should not be left to do as they please just because MR HIKUAMA: That is why I support and believe that we are in a free market economy, monopolising prices we should all support this Motion. even if they exploit Batswana. MS MANAKE: On a point of elucidation. You are on Mr Speaker, I believe that pricing is very important in the right track Honourable Hikuama. They should also the beef industry but I want us to have an agreement enjoy the profit or investments made by the Government with Minister of Agricultural Development and Food of Botswana over the years, it has invested a lot in the Security that he should speed up the arrangement to beef industry, and it is therefore their time to benefit like come up with a structure. Decisions should not be taken by one person; for example, the Minister and Parliament Honourable Gare said. That is true Honourable Member. coming up with the P19.00, P20.00 or P30.00 price. I do I thank you Mr Speaker. not believe that that thing will be helpful to us. What will MR HIKUAMA: Thank you. This Motion cannot make be beneficial to us is to realise that we need a structure us differ on certain things because it has one interest, which will control pricing of cattle. Cattle owners should which is to see the cattle farmer enjoying the benefits play a role when it comes to pricing their cattle. There of his or her farming. The Minister mentioned that he should be a structure which will accommodate farmers’ is looking into it but that should not make us wait for representatives to set prices for their goods. Otherwise, it is inappropriate to sit here and allow someone like him. We should come up with questions like, what is Rakgare who does not know anything about cattle it that you are putting in place to protect cattle farmers farming to set price for cattle. right now? We should come up with something, whether it is temporary or what, that can protect them so that HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… they do not continue being exploited. In Ngamiland we MR HIKUAMA: That is why I believe that those are have a problem because we have experienced every the reasons why we should support the Honourable pain imaginable when it comes to trading with cattle. Members’ Motion. we should know that it is moulding We have private abattoirs, right now when you find the our future and that it aims to protect a Motswana who owner in a bad mood, you are told that to slaughter your rears cattle. We understand that our county is what it is cow will cost P450 but when another one comes wearing because of cattle, other sectors which are contributing to a suit, he is charged P250 to slaughter. These imbalances the development of our country are adding to what has require fixing and you also Minister, need to find how been created by cattle. We cannot just say that since we you can fix these things. We are preparing for permanent have diamonds and tourism, we have to do away with cattle. We will not be doing justice to ourselves because things. I believe that these are the things that you need cattle sustain many lives to an extent that when its prices to be mindful of Minister when it comes to the cattle continue being low, we are going to be challenged industry. with a high trend of poverty and the Government will We must realise that when we leave the private market be burdened. We have to intervene in the structure, we should help small scale farmers by not allowing business prices or the market forces, they end up increasing the people to exploit them. gap between the rich and the poor. You are doing what the BDP believes in so much that the poor must feel I want to believe that the Motion which has been moved the pinch of poverty. This allows them to be bought by by Honourable Thiite is for the public good. It is not a CAVA T-shirt because he or she cannot do anything only because he has cattle at his farm, or that he has for himself or herself let alone sell his or stuff properly

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because your arrangement has…sometimes it is MS MONNAKGOTLA: When you talk of Manifesto deliberate, maybe people might think it is a mistake but and banks, that is good Honourable Member. I believe it is by design that you have designed a system which that Batswana, banks and Citizen Entrepreneurial impoverishes people so that you may control them Development Agency (CEDA) are listening. Batswana properly. They have their cattle but they do not benefit are going to be funded, banks are going to consider them them, you come with a CAVA cap and give it to him and give them better loans. These are some of the things or her claiming that you are God. If we can fix these that will breathe life into Botswana. Like the Honourable structures, we will see the benefit of rearing cattle and Member for Palapye said, in the past, a cow…I was it can benefit a lot of Batswana since every family has married in 1994 and a cow was P3 000, and up to now cattle. Thank you. it is still P3 000. MS MONNAKGOTLA (KGALAGADI NORTH): Thank you Mr Speaker. I rise to support Honourable Moving on, Honourable Minister Serame in her report spoke about the leather park that will be established in Thiite on his wonderful Motion. I wish to also appreciate Lobatse, I want you to continue with infrastructure, I the Minister of Agriculture for the good words and it promise you cow hides. We are going to work so hard in will be wonderful to have them implemented. Motswana Kgalagadi North… believes in the economic benefit of having a cow and without it, it will be hard to survive. Selling it at a good HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… price ensures that his or her family is provided for. MS MONNAKGOTLA: …I am saying this confidently. When you are a cattle farmer, there are expenses that Honourable Minister of Agriculture, even this P19 is still you incur such as vaccines for cattle, salaries of cattle low, you should review it. You spoke about the boards herders and diesel, therefore we appreciate this Motion that are going to be established, they should review this since it brings a better solution. I am saying this as a Member of Parliament for Kgalagadi North and I can price. promise you Honourable Thiite, that Kgalagadi North ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND people will leave towns to go back home for farming WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Clarification. like they used to. Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you Honourable Member HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… for yielding. Most Honourable Members repeated this point. One married in 1991 and another one is saying in MS MONNAKGOTLA: We know that cattle were life. 1994 a cow was P3 000. Why do we relate the cost of a I am not saying this in relation to Kgalagadi residents cow with marriage? Marriage is a matter of appreciation only but for Batswana in general. These better prices for cattle… where maybe the cost might be P1 500 or P2 000. Maybe let us relate it with business, otherwise it might appear as ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL if we are commercialising marriage. GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): Elucidation. Thank you Mr MS MONNAKGOTLA: Thank you Honourable. I was Speaker and thank you Honourable Member. You are saying, when we talk about boards, we must ensure that debating very well but maybe I might have missed they accommodate women and youth. something. I want you to expand it that, the matter at Minister Gare, feedlots were also introduced and they hand forms part of the transformation that we are talking are the reason why Batswana cattle were bought at a about in our Manifesto that we are going to transform less price. So let us ensure that farmers make sufficient the Agricultural Sector. Motswana relies on the profits from cattle so that we can improve our economy. economic benefits of cattle farming that is why most of our people are involved in farming. When we transform Cattle sustain the lives of Batswana. This is why every it like we promised in our Manifesto, it is going to create Motswana was asked to donate a cow, not money employment and our country will be economically when building the University of Botswana because stable. I wanted you to expand it in that direction that, they understood that our lives are sustained by cattle. we said this in our Manifesto as we were campaigning So if we can monitor the pricing of cattle, many lives for elections in 2019. Thank you Mr Speaker. of Batswana will be sustained; we will be able to build

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schools and accommodation facilities including leading We can see that the effect of this is to harm the BMC better lives. It is important for us to pay attention to this …(Inaudible)… and the feed lotters but at the end of issue so that we will be able to move forward Minister. the day, our top priority is these people as I say, then let Thank you. the borders be opened so as to enable Batswana to do their businesses. Let us also ensure that each one of their MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND cattle are bought at P19 per kg which they tasted when HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): boarders where open. Thank you Mr Speaker. I also stand to support the Motion by Honourable Thiite. Let me highlight that One other advantage of opening the boarder Honourable cattle sustain the lives of Batswana Mr Speaker. Cattle Members is, at the moment, Government is giving farmers also have their own expenses to deal with. They subsidy after subsidy. If we can ensure that cattle have boreholes, herdsmen and the infrastructure which farmers are assisted by increasing prices of cattle, we helps them to improve the conditions of keeping cattle. will not need this subsidy. Cattle farmers will also tell the Government that they no longer need to be assisted If we can consider many cattle farmers today, because with subsidy after subsidy because they are making of low prices of cattle, they are not able to solely rely sufficient profits from selling their cattle. At the end on cattle to earn a living. Many of them are engaged of the day, the market should be able to regulate itself in construction companies. They will tell you that they Honourable Members and places itself in a position cannot afford to solely rely on cattle because cattle that benefits many cattle farmers. In that way, many cannot even give them enough profit which can help jobs will be created because many cattle farmers are to take care of the said cattle. For this reason, they are currently unable to take care of their herd boys. They compelled to go out there to make some money which are not paying them sufficiently. Most of them confine they can use to care for their cattle. So a time has come themselves to the minimum wage. So if we could ensure Mr Speaker, for us to ensure that cattle farmers are that this… benefiting from the beef industry. We are not supposed to defend BMC or sustain it at the expense of cattle ASSISTANT MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, farmers Mr Speaker. our top priority is these cattle TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): On farmers and BMC comes after. So the benefits of this a point of clarification. Thank you Honourable Minister. industry have to directly be to cattle farmers. Sir, you mentioned that boarders were open last time and farmers were able to export cattle which resulted in an Honourable Moatlhodi explained that there is a company which buys beef at a price of P23 per kilogram (KG). increase of prices of beef. You said something like P30 I suspect he was referring to dead weight cold mass; per kg right? Honourable Minister will you agree with when a cow has been slaughtered. According to my me that we have problems in Botswana? If something understanding, a live cow can be bought at a price of minor changes, you will realise that the price of cattle P19 per kg, when you convert this amount to the amount is actually more than what we get here. Will you agree of a slaughtered cow you are going to look at P38 per that this calls for close assessment, perhaps Competition kg. This is to say, there is a formula of 05.55 which is Authority from our Ministry should be invited to find out used to measure the weight of a live cow. So we are what makes our prices very low in terms of marketing looking at the prices which ranges there. When you buy our agricultural products? Thank you. a cow, you will find that a farmer will make P9000 per MR KGAFELA: Of course, assessment has to be beast on average for a live cow which weighs 450 kg, done because when the borders were open last time, not P3000 or P2000 which we are currently deriving at. those who bought cattle internally were obliged to So it is very important for us to fix these prices just like compete with foreigners. So that is why the price ended Honourable Thiite explained. up being raised to P19 per kg. They also had to then We know that there are challenges, if the fixation of compete and they raised their prices to P19 per kg. this price is burdening feed lotters and BMC, then when the boarders were closed, they relaxed because the solution will be to open borders. Last time when they knew that a Motswana or a cattle farmer does not the boarders were open, the price was P19 per kg and have a choice except to buy from them. The process is farmers were very happy because it was their first time long when taking cattle to BMC and when you take it to benefit from the price and the value of their cattle. outside, cattle market is controlled internally which is

Hansard No198 27 Friday 4th September, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT-DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

why they lowered the prices back down to P12 per kg. MR THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): Thank you That is why the cost of cattle is now ranging around Honourable Speaker. Thank you Members of Parliament. P2000 or P3000 even though they worked hard to rear Minister I am grateful for the way you debated this them. So what Honourable Thiite has come up with will Motion. Let me just say… have that effect because most likely, BMC and the feed lotters are likely going to say, we cannot afford it. So MR SPEAKER: Move because there is no time. Move! the consequence of this might compel us to open the MR THIITE: I so move Mr Speaker. borders so that Batswana can sell their cattle. Those who operate locally will have to hike their prices so that they HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… can buy them. Allowing Botswana to export beef does MR SPEAKER: No, move your Motion as if it is … not necessarily mean that those who buy locally cannot (Laughter!)… afford to buy at that price. If they want to stop us from selling outside, they must also hike the prices. If BMC MR THIITE: Okay…(Inaudible)… wants to stop us from selling outside but to sell to it, it must act as soon as possible. They have to process HONOURABLE MEMBER: You read the Motion. our payments without delay whenever we take our cattle HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… there so that we can attend to other affairs. Question put and agreed to. We want competition, we do not want a situation whereby a few being feedlots, BMC and the like are cared for at HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Applause!) … our expense as cattle farmers. Honourable Members, it is time for BMC to go and resolve itself if they have MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable challenges and that is precisely why we had a decline. Kgafela. I thought we needed that. Honourable Let us say we have a decline in cattle population; you Members, it is now 12:30, may I call upon the Leader of ask the farmers why there is a decline, they will tell you the House to move a Motion of adjournment. that it is because we are now selling breeding stock. I MOTION cannot get assistance when I try to sell my weaners so I have no choice but to sell the very breeding stock so ADJOURNMENT I can attend to my other affairs. If I needed one beast LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): or two so that I can attend to my other affairs, now I Thank you Mr Speaker. Since we have completed need 10 or 11 which means I have to top up with this today’s business, I request that this House do now breed. That is why then the cattle herd of Botswana adjourn Mr Speaker. declines. This is the reality Honourable Members. We must be told the truth. Batswana should be told the truth HONOURABLE MEMBERS: No! about what accounts for the decline in the cattle herd MR SPEAKER: Mo zibona. (meaning suit yourself). of Botswana as precisely this control, which we have no idea what caused it. The Honourable Member here HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Murmurs) … has come up with an excellent Motion that we must kill this control Honourable Members, Batswana must Question put and agreed to. benefit. Mr Speaker, it seems like there is a common The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 12:35 p.m. until understanding from both sides and I do not know why Monday 7th September, 2020 at 2:00 p.m. we are now wasting any further time with it. I move that this Motion must be placed for questioning. I so move Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, Honourable Kgafela moves that the question be put. Which means that we should ask you, Honourable Thiite, to reply to the debates if the House agrees.

Question put and agreed to.

28 Hansard No 198 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa, Ms M. Madubeko HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Alepeng, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

29 Hansard No 198