TRANSCRIPT OF CITY OF COLUMBIA CITY COUNCIL
MEETING
TUESDAY, AUGUST 13, 2013 6:00 P.M. EAU CLAIRE PRINT BUILDING 3907 ENSOR AVENUE
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CREEL COURT REPORTING, INC. 1230 Richland Street / Columbia, SC 29201 (803) 252-3445 / (800) 822-0896 TRANSCRIPT OF CITY OF COLUMBIA CITY COUNCIL MEETING 2
1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: ... that they must be respectful of
2 others' opinions and realize that their -- that
3 their opinions have just as much value as each
4 and every one of ours. Because of the number
5 of copies we have of the agenda tonight and the
6 number of speakers we may have, that we
7 anticipate are speaking, I really want to
8 encourage everyone to limit your comments to
9 three minutes, I mean, it's so important. Or
10 else, we could be here 'til Friday, and I'm not
11 sure if any of us want to be here until Friday.
12 I like you all -- I'm not sure I wanna be here
13 until Friday. We just need everyone -- that
14 applies to everybody. I think mom is here
15 tonight and as much as she might even want to
16 talk about how special her grandchildren are,
17 she'll only have three minutes to do it as
18 well, okay? So, let's try to make sure we
19 limit our comments. Everyone's assembled (ph),
20 that's -- and none of us have had any coaching,
21 but we're -- again, for those of you who -- as
22 you see, Chief Jenkins is over here trying to
23 make sure we're aren't (ph) in violation with
24 the fire code regulations. We do have a --
25 there's a -- Ms. Dover (ph)?
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: 45 chairs.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And 45 -- well, 35 chairs left for
3 someone who might want to sit down and be in
4 the discussion. And some of you are here maybe
5 just to talk about a certain item, look in the
6 agenda, that might be more appealing to you.
7 I'm sure as we get through some items, that
8 some chairs maybe will thin out some. Madame
9 City Manager, let's call this meeting to order.
10 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible.)
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And I do encourage you, if you --
12 if you do plan to speak, please sign up to
13 speak and the clerk will continuously bring me
14 sign-in sheets to -- for consideration so --
15 thank you.
16 MS. MOORE: Good evening. Mr. Baddourah?
17 MR. BADDOURAH: Here.
18 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
19 MR. RUNYAN: Here.
20 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
21 MR. NEWMAN: Here.
22 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
23 MS. PLAUGH: Here.
24 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
25 MS. DEVINE: Here.
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1 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
2 MR. DAVIS: Here.
3 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Here.
5 MS. WILSON: Thank you. If we can all rise for the
6 pledge of allegiance.
7 UNKNOWN MALE: I pledge allegiance ---
8 UNISON: To the Flag of the United States of
9 America, and to the Republic for which it
10 stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with
11 liberty and justice for all.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That sounded really good, guys.
13 Sounded powerful.
14 MS. WILSON: At this time, we will have the
15 invocation by Captain Dave Wright with the
16 Columbia Fire Department.
17 UNKNOWN MALE: Do you have (inaudible).
18 MS. WILSON: I (inaudible) -- Chief Jenkins, will
19 you do us the honors? Thank you, Chief.
20 Always on call.
21 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
22 UNKNOWN MALE: Bring it on.
23 CHIEF JENKINS: Let's pray. Father, we thank you,
24 Lord, for this gathering here today. We ask
25 just to bless this Council, bless our mayor,
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1 our City Council, our city manager, all the
2 city workers, bless all that are here, open up
3 all our understanding, Lord, give us an ear to
4 hear and a heart to desire. We thank you,
5 Father, for all things in Jesus' name. Amen.
6 UNISON: Amen.
7 MS. WILSON: At this time, we will adopt the agenda,
8 and then we want to -- I'm sorry, it's been
9 taken care of ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
11 MS. WILSON: --- an item that I was (inaudible).
12 Council has asked me defer consideration of
13 Item 17, Item 38, Item 39, Item 40 and Item 51.
14 In addition, we would ask Council's
15 consideration of Item 34a for a first reading.
16 It's on Ordinance 2013-068, Amending the 1998
17 Code of Ordinances of the City of Columbia,
18 South Carolina, Chapter 10, Law Enforcement in
19 regards to resisting arrest and interfering
20 with a police officer, repealing that section.
21 Does Council have any others to include (ph)?
22 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
23 UNKNOWN VOICE: Make a motion?
24 MR. RUNYAN: Uh ---
25 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible.)
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, I -- this motion's been
2 seconded?
3 MR. RUNYAN: Second it.
4 UNKNOWN MALE: We can probably second (ph) any
5 discussion? (Inaudible) and move to the
6 previous question and the clerk called the
7 role.
8 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
9 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye
10 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
11 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
12 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
13 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
14 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
15 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
16 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
17 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
18 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
19 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
20 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. (Inaudible.)
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And there's no public incident
23 related to the agenda items. We will proceed
24 ---
25 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
CREEL COURT REPORTING, INC. 1230 Richland Street / Columbia, SC 29201 (803) 252-3445 / (800) 822-0896 TRANSCRIPT OF CITY OF COLUMBIA CITY COUNCIL MEETING 7
1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- with our public hearing
2 section. Item Number 1, Forms of Government.
3 Mr. Scott Slatton, Legislative and Public
4 Policy Advocate for the Municipal Association
5 of South Carolina.
6 MR. SLATTON: Good evening, Mayor, Council. It is
7 a pleasure to be here with you again and
8 greetings, too, on behalf of the Municipal
9 Association. Mayor Benjamin asked me to be
10 here this evening and talk to you about the
11 forms of municipal government in South
12 Carolina, and you -- I hope that you have a
13 copy of the presentation in your packet. If
14 not, we've got it up there on the screen. And
15 with your permission, Mayor, I will move
16 briskly through this ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
18 MR. SLATTON: --- considering the number of items on
19 your agenda. And we'll hit the buttons here.
20 The forms of municipal government in South
21 Carolina were established by way of the Local
22 Government Act of 1975. It's often referred to
23 as the Home Rule Act. And of course, Home Rule
24 granted municipal and county governments
25 expanded powers. They had many powers that
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1 they had derived over time, but the Home Rule
2 Act codified those authorities and powers. And
3 then, of course, the Act clearly states that
4 units are -- that local governments are units
5 of state government. We are creatures of the
6 state and we are often reminded of that by our
7 friends across the state and in the -- in the
8 legislature. There are two distinct areas of
9 responsibility in local governments, regardless
10 of the form, in all three forms. Policy equals
11 council -- the what and why of issues. It is
12 the council in all three forms that are
13 responsible for establishing policy and then
14 ensuring that that policy is implemented
15 according to its wishes. And then, the other
16 functional area is the administration. And
17 that often equals staff, administration and
18 operations -- the how, when and where of
19 issues. Policy is the exclusive perview of the
20 city council and administration is dependent
21 upon one of the three forms that is adopted by
22 the municipality, and we're gonna talk about
23 that in just a second. Further distinctions of
24 the forms of government, the major difference
25 in each of the three forms is where the
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1 administrative and executive powers are held.
2 Who is responsible for the administration of
3 the city? Who's responsible for the execution
4 of the policy that the council adopts?
5 Legislative function, again, always remains
6 with the council. Roles and responsibility,
7 that's exercised by the mayor. The council and
8 the chief administrative officer differ among
9 the forms of government. And the chief
10 administrative officer is referred to as either
11 an administrator or a manager, depending on the
12 form, and we'll get into that in just a second.
13 Just some general information and some facts
14 about municipal government in South Carolina.
15 There are 270 cities and towns in the state.
16 There's a -- as you might imagine, a great
17 diversity in the level of services, from the
18 smallest City of -- Town of Smyrna, which is a
19 population of 45, all the way up to you folks
20 here in the City of Columbia. 207 of the 270
21 are less than 5,000 in population. The three
22 authorized forms of municipal government in
23 South Carolina are the mayor-council, which is
24 often referred to as the strong mayor. 145 of
25 our cities and towns use that form. The
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1 council, or the weak mayor as it's referred to,
2 is used by 93 of our cities across the state.
3 And then the council-manager form has been
4 adopted by 32 of our cities across the state.
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I ---
6 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- apologize for interrupting you.
8 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I need to take the one half (ph)
10 (inaudible) already (inaudible) here. He is
11 allowing a few more people into the room. I
12 just need everyone to understand, in the event
13 of any emergency, please look towards Chief
14 Jenkins and the other fire official in the room
15 and keep the emergency exits clear. And he is
16 in the room with us and that should be fine for
17 right now.
18 MR. SLATTON: All right, let's talk about the mayor-
19 council form of government. It is the most
20 popular form of governments -- of municipal
21 government in South Carolina inasmuch as that
22 it is used by the most number of cities and
23 towns across the state which, of course, as I
24 just mentioned with 145 of our 270.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So ---
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1 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, you clarified this with
3 everyone (ph).
4 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's ---
6 MR. SLATTON: Yes. Often it's called the strong
7 mayor form because the mayor is granted by
8 state law the right to exercise legislative, as
9 well as, executive and administrative
10 authority. And we're going to get into the
11 details of that in just a second.
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Scott ---
13 MR. SLATTON: Yes, ma'am?
14 UNKNOWN FEMALE: According to the (inaudible) ---
15 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- out of that 145, can you tell
17 us the size of those?
18 MR. SLATTON: Sure. The number of cities and towns
19 across the state above 25,000 in population
20 that use the mayor-council form is three.
21 Three use the council form and 10 use the
22 manager form, the council-manager form. Above
23 10,000 in population -- I don't want to go any
24 lower than that -- six use the mayor-council,
25 which includes the previous three, 14 use the
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1 council and 18 use the council-manager. Did I
2 say that right? mayor-council, council and
3 council-manager. Okay.
4 UNKNOWN FEMALE: So, in our size, three of the
5 cities use council ---
6 MR. SLATTON: Three of the cities in the state above
7 25,000 in population use the mayor-council
8 form, that's correct.
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Second and third largest cities in
10 the state use mayor-council?
11 MR. SLATTON: The -- let's see -- City of Charleston
12 uses the mayor-council form and the City of
13 North Charleston, which is the third -- is it
14 North Charleston or Mount Pleasant?
15 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) North Charleston.
16 MR. SLATTON: North Charleston uses the mayor-
17 council, that's correct, yes, sir.
18 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Greenville uses?
19 MR. SLATTON: Greenville uses council-manager.
20 UNKNOWN MALE: We're two times the size of ---
21 MR. SLATTON: Yes. Okay.
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) ---
23 MR. SLATTON: Other questions?
24 MR. DAVIS: How about those ---
25 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 MR. DAVIS: --- those were forms of government put
2 in place based on preference as opposed to
3 automatic. I know nationwide, the numbers, you
4 know, just under 300,000 or more ---
5 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
6 MR. DAVIS: --- as opposed to those under ---
7 MR. SLATTON: Councilman Davis, I'll -- if I may,
8 real quickly I'll explain to you that in 1975,
9 when the Home Rule Act was adopted by the
10 General Assembly, each of the cities across the
11 state was required to adopt a form of
12 government ---
13 MR. DAVIS: Right.
14 MR. SLATTON: --- and they were instructed by the
15 General Assembly to adopt the form that was --
16 most closely reflected what they were presently
17 -- what they were using at that time. So, in
18 terms of preference, I wouldn't be able to
19 comment on, aside from the Home Rule Act, why
20 one particular form ---
21 MR. DAVIS: Yeah, preferences according to what was
22 in place at the time.
23 MR. SLATTON: Yes, sir, that's correct. Yes, sir,
24 uh-huh. And Ms. Devine, you asked for the ---
25 MS. DEVINE: I think the mayor got (ph) it.
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1 MR. SLATTON: Okay.
2 MS. DEVINE: The third one was Goose Creek?
3 MR. SLATTON: Third one is Goose Creek, that's
4 correct ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: 36,000.
6 MR. SLATTON: Okay. Continuing with the mayor-
7 council form, here are the council's powers.
8 As I said earlier, the council serves as the
9 legislative body, it determines policy for the
10 city, it appoints the city attorney, the city
11 judge and the municipal clerk, and it approves
12 the annual budget. The mayor's
13 responsibilities under the mayor-council form,
14 and these are laid out in the statute, the
15 council -- the mayor is designated as the
16 presiding officer, responsible for running the
17 council meetings, serves as the chief
18 administrative officer and is responsible for
19 preparation and then the administration of the
20 adopted budget. The mayor proposes a budget,
21 the council approves it, changes it how it sees
22 fit. And then, the mayor is responsible for
23 reporting on the financials to the city
24 council. The city -- the mayor is responsible
25 for the oversight of all the city departments
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1 and the day-to-day operations and he or she is
2 also responsible for the personnel decisions,
3 except as provided by law and the council. And
4 when I talk about -- when I say there that it's
5 provided by -- otherwise provided by the
6 council then what that means is the mayor
7 exercises his authority over personnel in the
8 context of a -- perhaps a policy manual, a
9 personnel policy manual, personnel policy that
10 the city council adopts, okay? The council
11 cannot take away from the mayor in this -- in
12 the mayor-council form those authorities that
13 are granted to him in statute.
14 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
15 MR. SLATTON: Continuing with the mayor, and this is
16 just some -- some flowery language that's
17 included in the statute. He ensures the
18 faithful execution of the laws, which I would
19 hope that all mayors do across our state. The
20 mayor makes the annual financial reports to the
21 public and the council, primarily the audit.
22 Reports to the council on the operations of
23 departments. And may, with the council, in
24 conjunction with the council, the mayor may
25 higher an administrator to assist him execute
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1 his functions. The question often arises as to
2 whether or not a mayor in a mayor-council who
3 has an administrator can dismiss that
4 administrator. The Attorney General has opined
5 that it is the council and mayor who may
6 discipline or dismiss the administrator because
7 it is the mayor and council together who are
8 given the authority to hire an administrator in
9 the mayor-council form. The mayor, as I
10 mentioned earlier, presides over the meetings
11 of the council and the mayor always votes a
12 member of the council. Any questions about the
13 mayor-council form? All right, let's move on
14 to the council form. Second most popular, as
15 I mentioned earlier, sometimes called the weak
16 mayor because the mayor lacks any formal
17 executive authority, and there are no
18 separation of duties between the executive and
19 the legislative functions. The council in the
20 council form of government is perhaps the most
21 egalitarian when -- in comparison to the other
22 two because the council, as a body, is
23 responsible for everything that takes place
24 from policy, formulation and adoption to its
25 execution.
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Scott, are any of those 93 cities
2 over our -- like our size?
3 MR. SLATTON: Um ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.) the largest ---
5 MR. SLATTON: No.
6 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
7 MR. SLATTON: The largest one is going to be the
8 town of Mount Pleasant at 67,843 in population.
9 The next one behind that would be Summerville,
10 43,392. And I -- and I'll be happy to provide
11 these numbers to you as well if you like later
12 on.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Okay.
14 MR. SLATTON: Council's powers, as I said, exercises
15 all legislative and administrative functions.
16 Council, in each of the three forms,
17 establishes departments and agencies of the
18 city, appoints the clerk, the attorney, the
19 judge and all employees. It is the council's
20 responsibility in the council form to higher
21 and fire all of the employees. The council may
22 hire an administrator whose duties are defined
23 by ordinance of the council. The council may
24 provide the administrator with as much or as
25 little responsibility as it sees fit, but the
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1 statute does provide for an administrator. And
2 of course, the council is responsible for
3 adopting a balanced operating budget. We're
4 all responsible, all three forms, all cities,
5 for adopting a balanced budget. The mayor's
6 powers -- the mayor may perform administrative
7 duties but only if authorized by the council.
8 For that matter, the council in the council
9 form, could adminis- -- could appoint anyone to
10 perform administrative duties. The mayor
11 presides at the meetings by tradition, that is
12 not laid out in the statute, it's up to the
13 council to decide who wants to preside. And
14 the mayor in the council form often exercises
15 informal authority as the leader and the
16 spokesperson for the council. The chief
17 administrative officer's responsibilities in
18 the council form, if one is appointed, he is
19 called an administrator. His or her authority
20 varies from city to city, and they're limited
21 to those specifically designated by the
22 council. Any questions about the council form?
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yes. Why do city council have more
24 power than the mayor (ph)?
25 MR. SLATTON: Ma'am, if I may, I will -- I will
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1 defer my answer to your question to the
2 Council, and let -- and let them ask me any
3 questions. Please grab me afterwards and I'll
4 be happy to answer.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Well, before we have any further
6 (inaudible) interruption, I would ask that if
7 any city staff may have seats in here as well,
8 and we have seniors who are standing, if we
9 could maybe give our seats to some of our
10 constituents. Do not move right now so maybe
11 it's conspicuous but ...
12 (Laughter.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: In a moment or two, they're just
14 going to move, okay?
15 MR. SLATTON: Continuing forward, we'll talk about
16 the council-manager form. Of course, that's
17 the form that the City of Columbia employs
18 today. This is the third most popular form, 32
19 of the 270. The mayor and council are
20 forbidden by law from interfering with the
21 operations of departments and the -- and
22 personnel decisions under the direction of the
23 manager. The council cannot be involved in the
24 direct hiring and firing of employees except
25 for the city manager. That is the only
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1 employee that the statute allows the council to
2 directly oversee. Council's powers, again,
3 serves as a legislative body, council sets all
4 policies for the city, and hires and fires the
5 city manager. The council appoints the
6 municipal attorney and the judge but in this
7 form, the council-manager, it is the city
8 manager who is responsible for appointing the
9 municipal clerk. The mayor's responsibilities
10 in the council-manager form are no greater or
11 less than that of being a council member. The
12 mayor presides at meetings by tradition not
13 statutory authority. There are cities across
14 the state who have take the gavel away from
15 mayors in the council and the council-manager
16 forms. And the mayor exercises informal
17 authority as the leader of council and
18 spokesperson for council as well. The manager
19 powers -- the manager serves, of course, at the
20 pleasure of the council. The statutes define
21 specifically what the authority of the city
22 manager is. The manager serves as the CEO and
23 the head of the administrative branch. The
24 manager can set and fix salaries for all the
25 employees within the constraints of the
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1 municipal budget that's approved by the
2 council. The manager prepares and submits a
3 balanced budget to the council and it -- it's
4 up to the council to decide whether or not it
5 wants to amend that budget, change it or adopt
6 it as it's presented. And then, of course, the
7 manager performs in that other category, all
8 other duties as prescribed. The manager is
9 responsible for preparing the annual financial
10 report and advising the council and the public
11 of the city's financial condition, advises the
12 council on appointments to boards and
13 commissions and makes recommendations about
14 departments, implements the policy through the
15 administrative control of all departments and
16 offices. Talking about the change in the form
17 of municipal government, there are two ways for
18 this question to be posed. The council can
19 call for a referendum by ordinance, which of
20 course you have on your agenda tonight, or the
21 public can generate a petition with signatures
22 from at least 15 percent of the city's
23 qualified electors. If a petition is presented
24 to you and if 15 percent of the registered or
25 the qualified electors -- not necessarily
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1 registered voters -- qualified electors which
2 are voters, if that's presented to the
3 municipal council, then it can put the
4 referendum on the ballot. Majority though can
5 vote in favor of a referendum -- I'm not sure
6 why it's written that way. If the -- if a
7 majority vote in favor of the -- of the
8 question then the council has to adopt a -- an
9 ordinance making the change. If the referendum
10 fails, you must wait a minimum of four years
11 before another referendum on the same question
12 can be held. For more information, you can go
13 to our forms and powers of municipal government
14 forum, which the Free Times call wonky, which
15 is okay with us -- we're not being wonky. You
16 can go find that on our web site at masc.sc and
17 type in the key words forms of government.
18 That was real quick. Questions from you, Mayor
19 and Council?
20 UNKNOWN MALE: Well ---
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. SLATTON: Yes, ma'am.
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
24 UNKNOWN MALE: Here you go.
25 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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1 MS. PLAUGH: I wanted to ask (inaudible) under the
2 -- under the mayor-council form of government,
3 one of the things you were referring is the
4 mayor's responsibilities is kind of assuming
5 some of the duties -- most all the duties of a
6 city manager, with the exception (inaudible) in
7 terms of their administrator, if there is a ---
8 MR. SLATTON: That's correct.
9 MS. PLAUGH: Doesn't have to be (inaudible) person.
10 But clarify for me because as I understand it
11 ---
12 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
13 MS. PLAUGH: --- still the mayor hires all city
14 employees and could fire all city employees
15 within the context of policy and whether (ph)
16 the policy, handbook ---
17 MR. SLATTON: Right.
18 MS. PLAUGH: --- that they already had.
19 MR. SLATTON: Right.
20 MS. PLAUGH: But those full (inaudible) of authority
21 on hiring and firing, would it transfer from
22 what is now the city manager to the mayor?
23 MR. SLATTON: That's correct. With the exception of
24 an administrator ---
25 MS. PLAUGH: Right.
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1 MR. SLATTON: --- that the council and the mayor
2 would hire together, and then it would be they,
3 according to the AG, who would be responsible
4 for disciplining or terminating or changing in
5 some way.
6 MS. PLAUGH: But it -- not necessarily would you
7 even have an (inaudible) ---
8 MR. SLATTON: That's correct, it's not -- it's not
9 required, it is optional. The mayor and
10 council may decide not to hire an administrator
11 or they can do that if they like.
12 MS. PLAUGH: Thank you.
13 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Would ---
15 MS. PLAUGH: Oh, I'm so sorry, Mayor.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
17 MS. PLAUGH: I do have one other question.
18 Clarification about the budget.
19 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
20 MS. PLAUGH: We now approve a budget, it is detailed
21 in terms of what goes to the police, the fire
22 department, da, da, da, way down. And right
23 now, those responsibilities for, say the police
24 department, are vested with the city manager.
25 Once we approve that, then she in conjunction
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1 with the police chief would decide how those
2 dollars get allocated.
3 MR. SLATTON: Right.
4 MS. PLAUGH: You know, what staffing level is in one
5 part of town versus another. Explain how that
6 works under the council-mayor form.
7 MR. SLATTON: It would work very similarly. The
8 mayor would propose a budget to the council,
9 and then it would be up to the council to
10 decide whether or not adopt that budget, change
11 it. Council could propose it's own budget for
12 that matter, but the mayor is just simply
13 responsible for proposing the budget. Once the
14 budget is adopted, very similarly to the -- to
15 the way the manager executes that budget today,
16 the mayor would be responsible for executing
17 the budget that the council passes.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Scott, what changes to this council
19 authority under this change in the form of
20 government from council-manager to mayor-
21 council?
22 MR. SLATTON: Nothing necessarily under the
23 Council's responsibility is going to change.
24 The Council is still going to be responsible
25 for policy.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And this -- and this is not maybe
2 a question for you but also for our -- maybe
3 the city attorney ---
4 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- the -- over 30 years ago, the
6 citizens of Columbia moved forward with
7 establishing 4-2-1 ---
8 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- a (inaudible) -- a system of
10 electing Council. This has no effect on 4-2-1?
11 MR. SLATTON: No, the representation was -- would
12 remain the same. It's just the authorities and
13 the responsibilities for the players will
14 change. It would move from -- in a council-
15 manager form to a mayor-council form, it would
16 -- the chief administrator, the CEO
17 responsibility would move from the manager to
18 the mayor.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And that's one thing I've been
20 discussing is getting clarification ---
21 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- manager (ph) ---
23 MR. SLATTON: No, it would ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
25 MR. SLATTON: It would not affect the
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1 representation, no.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, okay. Ms. Devine?
3 MS. DEVINE: Okay. This is a follow up on Ms.
4 Plaugh's question.
5 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
6 MS. DEVINE: So -- and I like talking specific not
7 in general basis ---
8 MR. SLATTON: Sure.
9 MS. DEVINE: --- but if it -- if Council approves a
10 budget ---
11 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
12 MS. DEVINE: --- and there is -- once that budget is
13 approved, currently the manager, if there needs
14 to be, you know, a priority shift of -- among
15 the year, whatever, and there's -- money can be
16 moved within something, she has authority to do
17 that; however, typically she comes to Council.
18 Would the Mayor still have that same authority
19 to move money once the budget is approved?
20 MR. SLATTON: The Mayor would be -- would be
21 responsible for bringing those same matters to
22 the Council ---
23 MS. DEVINE: Okay.
24 MR. SLATTON: --- because to do otherwise, the Mayor
25 would not -- would be acting without authority
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1 from the Council.
2 MS. DEVINE: Okay. So anything within the budget,
3 if it's not specifically in the budget as
4 approved, if it changes throughout the year, it
5 would have to come back to Council for
6 approval?
7 MR. SLATTON: Yes, I would say in a -- yes, I'll
8 answer that way. And it would also depend on
9 the specific financial management policies that
10 you as a city council and as a city employee,
11 what are your requirements, what are your
12 procedures for ensuring that that happens. For
13 instance, and I don't want to get -- I hate to
14 get too specific, but I have to give you an
15 example. If your financial management policies
16 prohibit the manager from moving funds from one
17 department to another without Council approval,
18 if you changed your form of government, then I
19 would recommend if the Council so desired, to
20 continue with that policy. Or you could change
21 it, you could provide the mayor with that
22 responsibility or that authority if you chose
23 to do so. So ---
24 MS. DEVINE: And I (inaudible) department separate.
25 Say, for instance, in our parks budget ---
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1 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
2 MS. DEVINE: --- we have improvements to a certain
3 park.
4 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
5 MS. DEVINE: And through -- and through the year,
6 priorities change and there's ---
7 MR. SLATTON: Right.
8 MS. DEVINE: --- another park that has needs and the
9 manager right now is -- has the authority to do
10 that because it's still within the parks budget
11 ---
12 MR. SLATTON: Right.
13 MS. DEVINE: --- but typically, she comes to us.
14 Would -- but she has authority to move it. So,
15 would the mayor have that same authority
16 without ---
17 MR. SLATTON: If ---
18 MS. DEVINE: --- approaching the Council?
19 MR. SLATTON: If you granted it to him, yes.
20 MR. DAVIS: You're saying that whatever the change
21 is, then the opportunity is up to the -- to the
22 Council to craft, again, that type of policy
23 that it prefers to have and that would pass on
24 majority vote?
25 MR. SLATTON: Yes, sir.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: This is so important to know,
2 Scott, I saw this in a previous presentation I
3 saw you doing, maybe it was quoted in the -- in
4 one of the articles ---
5 MR. SLATTON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- that I read but South Carolina,
7 as many of you know, you know for better or for
8 worse, is a legislative state, we have been and
9 that's reflected not just in (ph) the state
10 level but also in the laws of -- that were
11 passed -- passed the Home Rule down to counties
12 and to cities. So under all three of those
13 forms of government, the council maintains full
14 legislative authority and the ability to change
15 or prescribe or what have you, the powers
16 enumerated to (inaudible) so ...
17 MR. SLATTON: Just as it has, yes. Yeah, just as --
18 -
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
20 MR. SLATTON: As you have today, the authority as a
21 body, as a council, to set policy and to
22 dictate to the city manager how you want the
23 city to be run, inasmuch as it doesn't
24 interfere with what's required in the statute,
25 you have the authority to do that and you would
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1 retain that authority in any of the three -- in
2 any of the other two forms of government as
3 well.
4 MS. DEVINE: And I'm sorry, I wasn't finished.
5 UNKNOWN MALE: Oh.
6 MS. DEVINE: You were -- you kept saying unless
7 Council in policy changes that. What policy is
8 that, would that be our City Charter, is there
9 something -- a different document that needs to
10 be produced? What defines those ---
11 MR. SLATTON: Sure, sure. Well, I'll defer to your
12 staff to answer that question specifically, but
13 typically cities will have financial management
14 policies that dictate how matters like that are
15 to be dealt with, under what circumstances is
16 the staff to bring changes in the budget, under
17 what circumstances is the staff empowered to
18 make decisions on its own or to make certain
19 investments or to move funds around. Those are
20 set out in a financial management policy that
21 you as a council adopt and oversee. And again,
22 I would -- I would defer to the -- to your
23 staff specifically within your ordinances where
24 that may be.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Other questions, Mr. Newman
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1 and Mr. Baddourah.
2 MR. NEWMAN: And just to clarify, I think that --
3 and of course, I know that my colleagues here
4 kind of hashed out this point probably because
5 they heard someone saying -- constituents that
6 I have -- in the event there was some sort of
7 change, you know, the mayor (ph) is kind of
8 (inaudible) in what he's able to do. So my
9 question to you, being that you presented that
10 we can actually implement some constraints (ph)
11 as we need to be, whether it's no financial
12 controls or what not. But is there any -- are
13 there any sort of limitations per state statute
14 that we are not able to do -- like is there a
15 threshold in the spending amount that we can't
16 go below or anything like that?
17 MR. SLATTON: No, not with regard to spending.
18 MR. NEWMAN: Okay.
19 MR. SLATTON: Uh ---
20 UNKNOWN MALE: So that would have to be in policy?
21 MR. SLATTON: That's right. The statutory
22 restrictions are those that I listed in terms
23 of work -- dealing with personnel matters, and
24 we can -- we can go back and look at them
25 specifically but if -- but nothing from a
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1 financial standpoint, are there restrictions.
2 Aside from, you know, the general financial
3 restrictions in terms of debt caps and millage
4 increase and that kind of thing ---
5 MR. NEWMAN: --- we would need to create ---
6 MR. SLATTON: That's correct.
7 MR. NEWMAN: --- financial restrictions.
8 MR. SLATTON: That's right.
9 MR. NEWMAN: Thank you.
10 MR. BADDOURAH: I've got one (inaudible) follow up
11 on the budget shifting, that is when the city
12 manager had the power -- or bring to Council
13 some kind of (inaudible) or spending, the city
14 manager has the capability to do a good job
15 otherwise she would lose her job. With a
16 strong mayor elected official, we really don't
17 have that -- Council doesn't have that power,
18 know what I mean? We can pretty much -- strong
19 mayor government or mayor-council, until the
20 term is finished, Council has to live with the
21 choices and the decisions he makes.
22 UNKNOWN MALE: Right.
23 MR. SLATTON: Well, I ---
24 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) ---
25 MR. SLATTON: --- I will speak from the experience
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1 of when this has -- similar things have
2 occurred in other cities or towns across the
3 state. It is the council's responsibility to,
4 for lack of a better term, to call the mayor
5 out on those issues. And if the mayor fails to
6 properly administer the budget, or whatever
7 policies council sets forth, then the council,
8 you know, has other options that it can take in
9 terms of seeking an injunction or, you know,
10 other legal avenues that it can pursue.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's important though, too, that we
12 talk about accountability, that it's not just
13 the Council's role to determine accountability,
14 it's the people's role to determine
15 accountability. And if, in fact, the people
16 determine that any one of us up here aren't
17 executing our duties, then the people have the
18 right to determine whether or not someone
19 continues in office.
20 UNKNOWN MALE: Agreed.
21 MR. SLATTON: Yeah.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. Ms. Plaugh?
23 MS. PLAUGH: Have any of the communities that have
24 changed their form of government inserted a
25 recall ---
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MS. PLAUGH: Have any of those communities that have
3 converted or started as a strong mayor form of
4 government inserted a recall provision so that
5 there is a way to address ---
6 MR. SLATTON: There is no statutory provision, there
7 isn't statutory authority for cities or any
8 government in South Carolina ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You mean (ph) state law.
10 MR. SLATTON: --- provide for a recall.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: There's no state law.
12 MR. SLATTON: There's no state law that would allow
13 us as municipal officials to insert a recall
14 provision, that's just not provided for in the
15 law.
16 UNKNOWN MALE: I ---
17 MS. PLAUGH: So, we would not be able?
18 MR. SLATTON: No, would not be able, that's correct.
19 MS. PLAUGH: So there would be no way during that
20 four-year term, and my (inaudible), I want to
21 be clear, are about any strong mayor, not any
22 particular strong mayor. There would be no way
23 in -- there would be no way to address ---
24 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
25 MS. PLAUGH: --- for four years what would happen,
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1 I mean, because you couldn't vote in and you
2 couldn't get it back on the ballot for four
3 years. So, you'd be in that situation for four
4 years?
5 UNKNOWN MALE: I'm not proposing ---
6 MR. SLATTON: Yes.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
8 MR. SLATTON: Other questions?
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, all right.
10 MR. SLATTON: Thank you, Mayor, Council. I'll be
11 here in case you need me.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
13 MR. SLATTON: All right.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Then ---
15 MS. WILSON: Mayor, Council, we're ready ---
16 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) vote, let's vote.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: People who are just coming in,
18 please sign in and, you know, (inaudible) as
19 they come in.
20 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) no questions (inaudible).
21 UNKNOWN MALE: Sure.
22 MR. BADDOURAH: Can I ask (inaudible) the speaker
23 state their name and address and whether they
24 live in the city or not when they come to the
25 podium please?
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. The -- Mr. Runyan?
2 MR. RUNYAN: I just want to take -- before we get
3 into the public comments, I want to thank
4 everyone for being here when Mr. Baddourah and
5 I were first elected, we attended the Council
6 meetings in the (inaudible) to be sworn in.
7 And this was one of the issues that was before
8 us that day. There's been a lot of discussion
9 in the community, from neighbors, from
10 businesses, from all corners of the city that
11 I've heard of the past 14 months or so that
12 I've been in office, with interest on both
13 sides of this issue. In the past number of
14 days, or the past week since this issue has
15 resurfaced to the (inaudible) of our competence
16 (ph), again, I've heard a lot of passion on
17 both sides of this issue. But I did want to
18 take this moment and just point out what is
19 actually before this Council tonight is the
20 merits of one form of government versus another
21 is not the question before this body tonight.
22 The question before this body tonight is do the
23 people under our representative form of
24 government in this nation have the right to
25 self determination, do the people deserve the
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1 right to vote? I looked up -- this morning I
2 was looking through some things and was looking
3 at the State Constitution, the State of South
4 Carolina, in Article I, Section 1, which is the
5 very first thing in our State Constitution,
6 says all political power is vested in and
7 derived from the people only, therefore, they
8 have the right at all times to modify their
9 form of government. And that is really the
10 question that is before this Council today.
11 But I am -- I can't wait to hear what you all
12 have to say. I know that there is a lot of
13 passion on both sides of this issue and there
14 is a lot of good arguing on the merits of both
15 sides. And I know we're going to have a great
16 debate this evening, but I just wanted to make
17 sure that everyone had perspective on the
18 question that is before this Council this
19 evening. And Mr. Mayor, with that, I'd like to
20 go ahead and make a motion, and we'll take
21 public comments during the debate herein to
22 approve Ordinance Number 2013-086. And that's
23 a (inaudible).
24 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We ---
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
2 UNKNOWN MALE: You know, that (inaudible). Did --
3 we can reconvene if we have to.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Motion's on the floor. Mr. Davis
5 indicated he wants to hear from the public and
6 I think we could hear from the public in the
7 discussion period and hear the discussions and
8 a live motion on the floor. So let us go ahead
9 and I'm going to start reading down the
10 (inaudible) of those who ---
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) second on the motion to
12 (inaudible).
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Was there a second?
14 MR. NEWMAN: I'll second.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right, (inaudible) second,
16 okay. The ---
17 MS. PLAUGH: Mr. Mayor, if we're going to conduct
18 this in a reasonable manner, I don't think the
19 manner in which we are approaching it agrees
20 with it (ph). I intend to offer a substitute
21 motion. My substitute motion is that we
22 proceed with the hearing as it has originally
23 been advertised and not proceed with a vote at
24 this time.
25 UNKNOWN MALE: I'll second that.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That was a good (inaudible). We
2 have -- we have -- we've got a -- Ken, you
3 might have to help me with (inaudible) on this
4 one. We've got a -- we've go a motion on the
5 floor, we're in -- lacking a discussion period,
6 and I'm not sure what your ---
7 MS. PLAUGH: I'm offering a substitute motion ---
8 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
9 MS. PLAUGH: --- (inaudible) and then we ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And Ms. Plaugh, and your -- and
11 your motion was that we do not take up the
12 matter tonight at all?
13 MS. PLAUGH: No.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What was your motion?
15 MS. PLAUGH: No. My ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What was your motion? I'm sorry.
17 MS. PLAUGH: The motion was basically that we ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Not basically. What is your
19 motion?
20 MS. PLAUGH: Okay. My motion is that we do not
21 proceed to act on the motion before us; rather,
22 we proceed with the public hearing as
23 originally advertised.
24 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Thank you, thank you (inaudible).
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: okay. So you -- so you're saying
3 that, just so I'm clear, that you don't think
4 it is appropriate any time during this meeting
5 to entertain a motion, or you're saying that
6 only after the public hearing. Just -- I want
7 clarity.
8 MS. PLAUGH: Yes, Mayor.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm just -- I'm just asking
10 (inaudible).
11 MS. PLAUGH: I've said it twice.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
13 MS. PLAUGH: And I'll say it for the third time. I
14 do not believe and the sentence (ph) of my
15 motion, I'll restate if I have to, I think the
16 clerk has it, but I do not think it is in
17 keeping with what was advertised for the people
18 in this city to have a motion on the table
19 while we are hearing the -- from the public.
20 I -- that incenses me, I don't think it is
21 fair, I don't think it is equitable, and I
22 don't think what the people of this city
23 expected of our City Council.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. ---
25 (Applause.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Plaugh -- Ms. Plaugh
2 (inaudible). With all due respect, I don't --
3 I don't care if we have a motion on the floor
4 or not, but this is not inconsistent with how
5 we conduct every other meeting. We -- we've
6 have public hearings, we've had (inaudible) on
7 the floor, we've conducted discussion, I mean,
8 it -- I mean, it's relevant. I want to hear
9 from the people, to be honest with you, and get
10 past the discussion and theatrics. So let's --
11 -
12 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) pardon me ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure ---
14 MR. GAINES: I think ---
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let me -- Mr. Gaines ---
16 MR. GAINES: I think you go ahead and hear from the
17 public and then vote on the subject through the
18 motion.
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I want to vote now, you know ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- not after the public hearing.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I know. I was asking Ken just to
23 advise ---
24 UNKNOWN MALE: I think you all (inaudible).
25 UNKNOWN MALE: I'm not sure ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
2 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let me (inaudible) -- let me do
4 this. Let me do this, staff (ph). Let me do
5 this cause I really -- because I really -- I
6 want to hear from the public and we'll -- and
7 Council will get a chance to discuss as much as
8 -- as much as you can. Mr. Runyan, would you
9 just withdraw your motion for a second and
10 Brian, I just want to hear from the public and
11 -- let's hear from the public ---
12 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and then we'll have a chance,
14 you know ---
15 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- but they're not -- I think it
17 is important. You all, let's hear from the
18 public, that's right, hands down ---
19 MS. DEVINE: Well then ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- you can bring me the statement
22 and I think Doris will have that opportunity --
23 -
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And we all -- we all have questions
25 for Mr. ---
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1 MS. DEVINE: No, but -- no, we ask the questions ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay ---
3 MS. DEVINE: --- you made a statement and I just
4 would like to respond to your statement ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes. Yes, ma'am. Please.
6 MS. DEVINE: --- because I think it is not a
7 question on the floor as to whether or not the
8 citizens can vote, I think that the question is
9 when that vote will take place and what happens
10 prior to that vote. I want to make that clear
11 that that's not the question that's ---
12 (Applause.)
13 MS. DEVINE: --- on the floor. But we will decide
14 that but the way he posed it was whether you
15 vote or not, and that's not the question. The
16 question is when you'd have that vote and I
17 want ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And I think it's fair that all
19 seven of us have opinions and we ought to
20 (inaudible) ---
21 MS. DEVINE: Right. Because normally we let -- we
22 hear from everybody and then we state our
23 opinions so since that was placed before the
24 public comments, I think it's only appropriate
25 ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
2 MS. DEVINE: --- that before the public comments,
3 that everyone knows that the issue is just when
4 they -- when the vote will take place.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay ---
6 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, Cameron, I'm sorry.
8 MR. RUNYAN: And I'll be very brief. I want
9 everyone to understand, we will (ph) hear from
10 you all. My understanding is (inaudible).
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Is what?
12 MR. RUNYAN: My intent is that we do hear from you
13 all, but I do think it is very important that
14 we keep in focus what issue is on the table
15 before us today. And so that was -- my
16 statement was a statement of fact, not of
17 opinion, just to try to keep the dialogue going
18 in a productive direction tonight. So, thank
19 you (inaudible).
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Mims Cave Rust -- no,
21 I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Ms. Rust, the -- you're
22 not on the agenda for strong mayor. We have
23 two separate lists going here. Ms. Martha
24 Roblee with the League of Women Voters.
25 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 MS. ROBLEE: Good evening, Mayor Benjamin ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
3 MS. ROBLEE: --- members of Council. Thank you for
4 holding this public hearing. My name is Martha
5 Roblee. I am President of the League of Women
6 Voters of the Columbia area. I reside at 3701
7 MacGregor Drive in Columbia. As many of you
8 may know, the League is a nonpartisan
9 organization with a mission to encourage
10 informed and active participation of citizens
11 in government. We carefully study issues
12 before supporting or acting. The Columbia
13 League has a long history of interest, study
14 and action on issues of governance relative to
15 the City of Columbia and includes being active
16 in the establishment of the 4-2-1 city council
17 representative structure of government, in
18 changing the date of Columbia municipal
19 elections, in providing for a fair annexation
20 regulatory process, and in the effort to
21 achieve a unified city-county planning process.
22 In 2005, the Columbia League was an active
23 participant in the deliberations of the
24 Columbia City Government Reform and
25 Restructuring Commission. The commission was
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1 charged by City Council to examine the city's
2 current form of government and to determine its
3 effectiveness, responsiveness and
4 accountability to the citizens of the city.
5 Before the League addressed the issue of what
6 form was best for Columbia, it recommended
7 several criteria to the commission as a basis
8 for assessing the various forms of government
9 and included such things as developing a plan
10 for the present and a vision for the future;
11 assuring the City Council, as the policy making
12 branch, worked closely with the administrative
13 branch; identifying a liaison between City
14 Council and the administration in order to
15 provide a clear direction to the administrative
16 branch; employing qualified and trained staff;
17 assuring the system provides a prompt response
18 to citizens' requests for service; and
19 coordination among agencies and all levels of
20 government. The Columbia League, in 2005, did
21 reach a consensus. That consensus was, at that
22 time, to retain the current City manager-
23 council form of city government, but to make
24 the office of mayor a full-time position with
25 a commensurate salary. Events, however, since
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1 we last studied this issue, have -- has shown
2 us that city governance has not been wholly
3 successful in meeting those criteria that would
4 make our current form of city government more
5 efficient or more effective. Therefore, our
6 members have decided to conduct a new study and
7 a concession -- excuse me, consensus session in
8 the next few weeks. But whatever form of
9 government is ultimately chosen, the Columbia
10 League believes that efficient and economical
11 government requires competent personnel, the
12 clear assignment of responsibilities, adequate
13 financing, coordination among the levels of a
14 government, effective enforcement and well-
15 defined channels for citizen input and review.
16 Therefore, as citizens and as an organization
17 devoted to the principles of democracy, we
18 strongly urge Council members to do two things.
19 First, place the question of changing the form
20 of municipal government from council-manager to
21 mayor-council on the November ballot. And
22 second, include a section on the ballot that if
23 a majority of votes cast by the qualified
24 electors are in favor of the change in form of
25 government, that the change shall be
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1 implemented on January 1st, 2018, the first day
2 of the term of the mayor elected in the
3 November 2017 session -- elections. Your
4 decision will have an impact of historic
5 proportions on the future of the city, that of
6 its citizens, both individually and
7 collectively. The League's basic purpose is to
8 make democracy work for all citizens. It is
9 always critical that the voters be heard. This
10 is a decision that must be made by the voters
11 of the City of Columbia. It is our future, it
12 is our decision. Thank you.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
14 (Applause.)
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Martha? Martha?
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
17 MS. ROBLEE: I'm sorry. Ms. Devine?
18 MS. DEVINE: (Inaudible), I'm just curious, what is
19 your understanding of the vast majority of
20 citizens have an understanding, the
21 presentation and the roles, do you have an
22 opinion as far as an education process, or do
23 you think there's been enough education
24 (inaudible)?
25 MS. ROBLEE: We do not believe there's been enough
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1 education, or at least enough recent education
2 of the matter. And that is also part of the
3 reason why we are gonna go back into
4 informational sessions and consensus study by
5 the League. And those sessions are open to the
6 public as -- obviously, and to our members, but
7 also open to the public. Although at the
8 consensus meeting, it's only our members who
9 can express ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. Thank you, thank you to
11 the League for all your work thus far. All
12 right, Ms. Marilyn Knight?
13 MS. KNIGHT: Good evening. It's very wonderful to
14 be here with you, Mayor ---
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ma'am (ph).
16 MS. KNIGHT: --- City Council. My name is Marilyn
17 Knight. I reside at 2819 Bratton Street,
18 29205, in Melrose Heights. I have been an
19 active voting citizen in Columbia, South
20 Carolina, since March 1964. I have also served
21 in many wonderful leadership capacities on many
22 levels in the city. I have a concern and I
23 think it's still true that haste still makes
24 waste ---
25 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 MS. KNIGHT: --- when it's unnecessary. And we need
2 to be very deliberate in anything that impacts
3 our community. I believe firmly in democracy,
4 that means we're all equal. We don't need to
5 become a Detroit so therefore, we need to look
6 very carefully at any decisions that are made
7 for our community. We do need to have a
8 reliable sewer system. For example, an anyone
9 wanting to be our mayor, needs to be very wise
10 and very careful. City Council, Mayor,
11 remember who you work for. You work for us or
12 we should fire you.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: All right.
14 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
15 MS. KNIGHT: There was a quote in the paper today
16 that (inaudible) that someone on Council said
17 the current system is dysfunctional. My
18 comment is, that is the current system is
19 dysfunctional, changing it won't change the
20 dysfunction because it's people, it's people in
21 the system and how they use the system
22 correctly or incorrectly. So, I'm very
23 concerned about the decisions you make because
24 they affect everybody I love, which is all the
25 citizens of Columbia. And I hope that you will
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1 look beyond selves in every deliberation you
2 make and I was never ever so very, very happy
3 with the referendum being on the ballot if
4 indeed it does stipulate that it will not be
5 implemented until January 1, 2018, after the
6 election in the fall of 2017. I think that's
7 very fair and it somewhat recuperates the whole
8 haste in this decision. Thank you very much.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Knight. Dr. Albert
10 Reid.
11 (Applause.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm sorry, (inaudible) Tameika, or
13 one of you, remind me.
14 MS. DEVINE: Yeah (ph).
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I may call people up three at a
16 time so we can keep it moving and have some --
17 have a couple people in the queue. Dr. Reid,
18 you're up next and then Ron Thompson followed
19 by Ellen Cooper.
20 DR. REID: Thank you very much.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Dr. Reid.
22 DR. REID: Good evening, members of Council. I am
23 Dr. Albert L. Reid, a retired general surgeon
24 and a resident of this great state over 40
25 years. I live in the proud Greenview
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1 Subdivision location. As you know from
2 frequent appearances before you, I'm strongly
3 against the strong mayor system of governance
4 for the City of Columbia, everybody knows that.
5 If you roll back our history for a few moments
6 to the early 1980s, you will see how many of us
7 in this world today, and fighters like Reverend
8 Whitaker and the Reverend Wright -- Reverend
9 (inaudible), fought a long, bitter battle, even
10 in our courts, for over 13 years for our
11 present system of governance. The City of
12 Columbia installed a combination district at
13 large council system in the 1980s, our current
14 4-2-1 system. Four districts, thus two at-
15 large council members and one mayor.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
17 DR. REID: There was a lack of a single minority
18 representative on this council up until that
19 time, not a single minority representative. We
20 celebrated our first minority representative on
21 this council with the installation of Attorney
22 E.W. Cromartie and Attorney Luther J. Battiste,
23 III. I read about 4-2-1 system, it is fair, it
24 is transparent, it is balanced, and that works.
25 And it gives all of our citizens an opportunity
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1 for good representation. Now, while some
2 cities have kept or adopted centralized
3 governance like the strong mayor, nearly 60
4 percent of American cities prefer a model of
5 representative governance similar to Columbia.
6 Virtually every city and county in South
7 Carolina uses a district based council
8 governance. Models without criticisms or call
9 for change. From the (inaudible), the system
10 helps to insulate the state of government from
11 corruptive influences. Now, for those of you
12 who think you want a strong mayor, thought I
13 would address that. A dictator. Remember this
14 -- and we are blessed (ph) -- take a moment and
15 look around the world today. Syria, Egypt,
16 Iraq and Afghanistan, the Middle East and
17 others, Detroit and Chicago and the Columbia
18 real estate property deal that as the old
19 Burroughs Chapin Green Diamond Project, all
20 dictators. A thousand fleeing refugees just
21 placed like -- men and women and children are
22 homeless. Number two, continuing protest and
23 gang wars and violent deaths carried out,
24 (inaudible) and periods (ph) and poverty, and
25 combine this with the widespread corruption and
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1 greed. Is that what you want? That's what you
2 could get with a dictator, along with a half
3 price bunch of useless criminals that overrun
4 and (inaudible) the taxes.
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) all right.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Dr. Reid.
7 DR. REID: Look around.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Dr. Reid.
9 DR. REID: That still is a possibility. Let's keep
10 our present 4-2-1 system, a truly
11 representative, smooth running government that
12 has withstood the test of time so that the
13 voices of all the people can be heard and
14 respected. Let's save the 4-2-1, save the 4-2-
15 1. That will -- I would like to close with
16 this final announcement, Mayor.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
18 (Laughter.)
19 DR. REID: Our current city structure -- everyone
20 should read this article, it's called our
21 current city structure, a level playing field,
22 represented by Mr. Lewinsky, Columbia-based
23 political consultant, who teaches a stable
24 local government (inaudible). I recommend it
25 (inaudible), that all of us should read this
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1 and take this article under consideration. I
2 thank you for your ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Dr. Reid.
4 DR. REID: Yes.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
6 (Applause.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) let's -- please
8 (inaudible) check for those that just came in
9 the room. Under a change in the form of
10 government, the 4-2-1 system is not affected.
11 The 4-2-1 system stays in place. I never
12 thought I'd hear Syria, Egypt ---
13 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- you do or do not believe in
15 (inaudible). Ron (inaudible) please ---
16 UNKNOWN MALE: That's right too.
17 MR. THOMPSON: Council members, déjà vu. Taken (ph)
18 before Council earlier today. Mayor Benjamin.
19 I live at 138 Gayle Pond Trace in Columbia,
20 within the city limits, but I come to you in my
21 capacity as chairman of the Greater Columbia
22 Community Relations Council. I am a retired
23 mediator so as such, I'm not on one side or the
24 other in terms of anything that the electorate
25 or the people might be interested in. I'm
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1 mainly concerned about harmony, and this is
2 also my goal as chairman of the Community
3 Relations Council. So what I'm saying to you
4 basically and saying to everybody in general is
5 that let's exercise the democratic process. My
6 interest here and the Community Relations
7 Council's interest is simply to let the people
8 decide and once we do that, then we can move
9 forward. Thank you.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
11 (Applause.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And thank you, Ron, for not using
13 the whole three minutes. Behind me is
14 (inaudible) Mr. Bill Manley, Mr. Lee Bussell
15 and Mr. Jim Felder.
16 MS. COOPER: Do I get that part of the three
17 minutes?
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
19 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
20 MS. COOPER: It was worth ---
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
22 MS. COOPER: It was worth a try. Yeah, I'm Ellen
23 Cooper and I live at 2809 Grace Street in the
24 City of Columbia, and I am a registered voter
25 in the city. I have several concerns but first
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1 of all, I want to thank you personally for
2 sending me an e-mail inviting me tonight.
3 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, ma'am.
4 MS. COOPER: And Mr. Runyan attaching that and
5 sending me another e-mail.
6 (Laughter.)
7 MS. COOPER: And then sending me a telephone call.
8 And all of this was paid by your campaign. Up
9 until that time, I really thought it was a city
10 issue. I did not realize it was a campaign
11 issue and that study has turned out to be -- or
12 else we would have heard from other Council
13 members using the same Internet and that kind
14 of thing. I noted -- and I think that it would
15 be better if the Council had decided as a whole
16 to make it an issue for the voters instead of
17 one or two people being involved in that. I do
18 -- I am concerned that on the resolution, there
19 is no year when this goes into effect. So
20 hopefully, before there is any vote on the
21 resolution, dates will be filled in. It's very
22 important that dates be filled in before a vote
23 is taken.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
25 MS. COOPER: One of the things that I did want to
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1 point out and that really did concern me was in
2 the paper a day or so ago, in terms of our
3 stadium. And it quotes the mayor as saying
4 that at the moment, he is a committee of one on
5 Council in support of a stadium. So, quote, I
6 have to build consensus or change the form of
7 government. I personally voted seven people
8 here to be equal in their votes in voting how
9 to spend my money and how to raise my taxes and
10 who to employ for the city. So, I would urge
11 you to vote not to have this referendum that to
12 do -- that we elected you for, which was to
13 represent our community, so yes. Thank you.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Cooper.
15 (Applause.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Power line (ph) decisions go
17 directly to me. I think it's important to note
18 that ---
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah (laughter).
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- I'm not sure why -- and you can
21 come back if you want. I know you all have got
22 something to say (inaudible) back (inaudible)
23 and I respect that.
24 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Mayor, you were talking about ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Isn't, isn't -- I'm not sure why I
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1 need to be constrained, or Cameron or anyone
2 else up here need to be constrained with
3 sharing our opinions and using the tools
4 available at our disposal to try and convince
5 all of you to share my opinion. I don't see
6 anything wrong with that. I mean, that's the
7 -- that's the ---
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And as Americans, you have the
9 right to do that.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's the power of democracy.
11 MS. COOPER: Yes.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Just as you e-mail me and call me
13 ---
14 MS. COOPER: Oh, but you don't answer me.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Just as ---
16 (Laughter.)
17 MS. COOPER: You don't -- you may answer me
18 (inaudible) not get answered.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now you're telling me -- no. No,
20 seriously ---
21 MS. COOPER: No, I (inaudible) ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Don't tell a story now.
23 MS. COOPER: But they can check the e-mails and get
24 Mr. Johnson to check, but there's three things
25 to be answered.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, three. Okay, I misunderstood
2 (ph) ---
3 MS. COOPER: That's ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I called you -- I called you two
5 days ago.
6 MS. COOPER: I think you did. I know you did.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- called and (inaudible) okay?
8 MS. COOPER: Yeah, I know, I told ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
10 MS. COOPER: I also know -- I did not realize that
11 it was going to be a campaign issue. I really
12 and truly though ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
14 MS. COOPER: --- I really and truly thought it was
15 a city issue ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
17 MS. COOPER: --- and that, you know, and that was
18 just my opinion of it.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Well, thank you, ma'am. Mr.
20 Manley?
21 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am, Ms. Plaugh.
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: She is a sweetheart.
24 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) Mr. Manley comes forward,
25 I think what Ms. Cooper was trying to say,
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1 Mayor, is -- she will do it much more elegant
2 than I probably, but if we politicize this and
3 as opposed to just being a dialog among the
4 citizens of this city, we have turned this into
5 a politicized process.
6 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Amen.
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Why is it that you think that this
9 is not a political process?
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Right.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The people are voting, that is
12 politics. That is -- that is politics ---
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Democracy, we make in politics.
14 Changing politics by the ---
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, no, no. And with -- and people
16 -- and with people having the right to vote and
17 everyone please sign up if you want to speak.
18 And we need -- we'd love to have everyone
19 speak. But look, that's the nature of the
20 political process. Each and every one of us,
21 we're registered voters, we can dialog our
22 issues and make decisions, we agree to
23 disagree, we ---
24 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- we're not going to go -- but
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1 we'll have a chance to ---
2 MS. PLAUGH: I just want to make one point, if I
3 could, Mayor ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure, Ms. Plaugh.
5 MS. PLAUGH: But the reality is, if we collectively
6 as the Council ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Whatever.
8 MS. PLAUGH: --- decide that we want to put a robo-
9 call out to everybody in the city, it would go
10 to everybody in the city.
11 UNKNOWN MALE: That's right.
12 MS. PLAUGH: If we want (inaudible) ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
14 MS. PLAUGH: --- we want to politicize the process,
15 we put a robo-call out to a certain section ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, all right, but Ms. Plaugh, and
17 with all due respect, how many -- how many
18 people did you e-mail in the last few days
19 because I got several copies of your e-mails.
20 How many people have you e-mailed, Ms. Plaugh?
21 MS. PLAUGH: You live in my district.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No. No, how many -- how many ---
23 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- you said don't -- you said
25 don't send an e-mail out to a certain section
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1 of the city ---
2 UNKNOWN VOICE: That's right (ph).
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You e-mailed -- you e-mailed
4 hundreds of people ---
5 MS. PLAUGH: Sure cause (inaudible) ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
7 MS. PLAUGH: But (inaudible) ---
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay. We agreed ---
9 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let's -- we agreed that we're ---
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.) Come on. Let's not
13 ask questions. I want to defer to the opinion
14 of our Council.
15 UNKNOWN MALE: We agreed that we were going to
16 listen.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: I want to do that now.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
20 UNKNOWN MALE: And I want to hear from some of my
21 colleagues because each one of my colleagues is
22 going to hear from me.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
24 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay. Thank you all.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Manley.
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1 MR. MANLEY: Whatever.
2 (Laughter.)
3 MR. MANLEY: Mr. Mayor?
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir, Mr. Manley.
5 MR. MANLEY: And City Council. I answered a
6 telephone call and guess what the area code
7 was? 202.
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. MANLEY: --- to donate political, and you tell
10 me what it is.
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MR. MANLEY: Councilor Runyan, why were you trying
13 to do this? Why are you asking for a vote
14 before we even got to talk?
15 UNKNOWN VOICE: Right.
16 MR. MANLEY: That's not ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You know what I think is ---
18 MR. MANLEY: Anyhow ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- (inaudible).
20 MR. MANLEY: My time, sir.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
22 MR. MANLEY: My time, sir ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) Bill. And then we'll
24 (inaudible) ---
25 MR. MANLEY: On the Council's time.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
2 MR. MANLEY: I'm 84 years old.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
4 MR. MANLEY: So really, I've been married 65 years,
5 seven months and ---
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. MANLEY: And the (inaudible) I wouldn't want to
8 know. And I live right down the street, 4000
9 Abingdon Road, and you can stop by any time.
10 (Laughter.)
11 MR. MANLEY: No really, really. I really
12 appreciated Dr. Reid. Mr. -- Dr. Reid, you are
13 a great citizen. I love you. Because I was
14 involved with him and thousands and thousands
15 of other citizens in Columbia in the 1980s when
16 they wanted to change the strong mayor form of
17 government. We didn't have a district
18 representative like I have now. We don't need
19 to go back to that again.
20 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
21 MR. MANLEY: You don't want the power of the mayor
22 (inaudible). And let me tell you, the power is
23 tremendous, sir. I went to (inaudible)
24 extension (ph) over here before I came to city
25 council, it's unbelievable, the power of the
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1 mayor. And he didn't even have to make any
2 notes or anything, he could just look at you.
3 We don't need that form of government. Look
4 how our representatives 4-2-1. We don't need
5 more than that.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. MANLEY: We're gonna have to vote on November
8 the 5th. And again, Dr. Reid, I love you, my
9 friend. And all of you that's (ph) there in
10 the trenches for us to have 4-2-1 without a
11 strong mayor, that's my word and thank you very
12 much.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. Manley.
14 (Applause.)
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: After Mr. Bussell, we got Jim
16 Felder again and then Mel Jenkins and then I
17 have -- I have someone signed up as Columbia
18 resident NAACP. I'm not sure if it's a
19 representative from the association here to
20 speak.
21 MR. BUSSELL: Mr. Mayor.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, Mr. Bussell.
23 MR. BUSSELL: Members of City Council, how are you
24 all doing tonight?
25 UNKNOWN MALE: Hey Lee.
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1 MR. BUSSELL: Perfect reason to me for why we need
2 a strong mayor. I'm Lee Bussell. I don't
3 live in the City of Columbia, I live in Chapin
4 although my wife will tell you I spend more
5 time at 1411 Gervais Street by far than Chapin.
6 But I'm not here as an individual tonight, I'm
7 here as the chairman of the Columbia Chamber of
8 Commerce. For more than a decade, we've been
9 in favor of a strong mayor because we believe
10 a strong mayor gives us greater accountability
11 to the voters, it gives us more transparency,
12 it gives us much more of a government in a city
13 that's on the move. Now, let me tell you, that
14 doesn't say we have any displeasure with any of
15 you all sitting here or with Ms. Wilson. We
16 agreed not on everything with you all every
17 time, but there's a lot of things we agree with
18 all of you. But we believe that it's not the
19 individuals that serve, that it's the
20 government and the structure of that
21 government. Our executive committee last week
22 voted unanimously with the encouragement and
23 support of our members to advocate strongly for
24 strong mayor form of government. We think the
25 number one thing that we should do as a
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1 representative government is give the people
2 the right to vote on it. Now, unlike some that
3 we've heard today, when something's broke,
4 business people believe in fixing it, not
5 waiting five years to fix it. So we think it's
6 better to have a deliberate discussion, to
7 educate people on the issues -- although, I'll
8 tell you all, I think you underestimate the
9 voters in this city, they're a whole lot
10 smarter than you think they are.
11 (Applause.)
12 MR. BUSSELL: They've been -- they've been calling
13 for strong mayor for years. And I think if you
14 give 'em the opportunity, you'll see that they
15 are very well versed in that. Now, let me --
16 let me go a step further. We feel strongly
17 enough about this issue that if you all decide
18 not to let the voters have the right to vote,
19 then we're willing to join with a broad-based
20 group of our neighbors from the business
21 community, from the faith community, from the
22 neighborhoods, and we're willing to go together
23 for a petition drive. We think it's that
24 important for the people to have a right to
25 vote. And we would strongly encourage you all
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1 as representatives to go ahead and give them
2 that right, but if you don't, we intend to move
3 forward with the petition drive. Thank you.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you ---
5 (Applause.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Felder and then Mr. Jenkins.
7 MR. FELDER: Mr. Mayor and Council, let me say ditto
8 to my last speaker. There's confusion in the
9 room about what we're about to do, or what you
10 -- we're asking the Council to do on the
11 referendum. Also, a little bit of history may
12 be instructed about the 4-2-1 form of
13 government we operate under now. There are two
14 things in life that are certain: taxes and
15 death, right?
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Laughter.)
17 MR. FELDER: There's a third, change. Change. We
18 don't like change, it makes us uncomfortable.
19 Change is disruptive, change is inconvenient so
20 we -- we don't like change, but change is going
21 to happen. 4-2-1 happened because we decided
22 we needed to make a change. It came about in
23 1982 because we could not get an African
24 American elected to City Council, even though
25 many had run through the years. And Jessica
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1 Simpkin must have run 12 times. But the city
2 refused to annex African American
3 neighborhoods. Greenview, where I lived, for
4 20 years. Friar Road. Motor (ph) Lake. So we
5 never had enough votes to get an African
6 American elected to City Council at large. And
7 the Council then was composed of people who
8 lived in the same neighborhood.
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Amen.
10 MR. FELDER: Shandon. They called them the Shandon
11 Mafia.
12 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
13 MR. FELDER: (Inaudible), John Campbell, Jesse T.
14 Breeze, Dr. Orans (ph). They all lived right
15 across from each other. And they locked this
16 city down in terms of participation by folk who
17 did not live in the limited City Council --
18 limited area at the time. We asked for change,
19 they refused, so we had to go to court. So
20 John Harper and Sam (inaudible) battled for
21 single member districts. He wanted all six
22 districts to be single member districts, but we
23 had to reach a compromise. We couldn't get six
24 but that's how we ended up with four, right or
25 wrong, (inaudible) districts and two at large
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1 and the mayor, you know, to accomplish it.
2 That opened the door for E.W. and Luther. So
3 today we are here to talk about putting an
4 issue on the vote for the people to vote on.
5 We're not talking about changing 4-2-1, and I
6 think there's some confusion about that here
7 today.
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Amen.
9 MR. FELDER: We're not talking about taking 4-2-1 at
10 all, we're saying let the people, Mr. Runyan,
11 vote on whether or not we should change the
12 form of government. Am I correct, is that why
13 we're here?
14 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, sir, yeah ---
15 MR. FELDER: Okay.
16 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
17 MR. FELDER: My final comments are these, for
18 another time, another day. Columbia has grown
19 since 4-2-1 went into existence. The city is
20 twice the size it used to be. We need to think
21 about enlarging the Council. That's another
22 issue, another day, but we need to think about
23 that. We -- for the city we are, with only
24 seven people running it, we can (inaudible).
25 Charleston has a 12 member city council,
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1 Charlotte has an 11 member council, Atlanta has
2 a 16 member council. So we need to proportion
3 -- we need proportionate representation, we
4 need to talk about that another time. But as
5 for today, I think the people are to decide
6 whether we have this change in government and
7 that's what I'm here supporting.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. Felder.
9 MR. FELDER: Any questions? Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Mel Jenkins is somehow --
12 somewhere. Mel Jenkins. Ma'am, you're here on
13 behalf of the NAACP -- I don't see your name --
14 and then it's to Floyd Cutler.
15 MS. SAMPSON: Good evening, Council.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Good evening.
17 MS. SAMPSON: I'm Camilla Sampson ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you ---
19 MS. SAMPSON: I'm speaking on -- (inaudible) the
20 Columbia Branch NAACP, and I'm here to state
21 our position on the strong mayor issue. The
22 Columbia Branch NAACP Executive Committee voted
23 unanimously against any changes to the City of
24 Columbia's present form of government. The
25 present 4-2-1 district system with the county
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1 manager is the best system and most democratic
2 form of government for the citizens of Columbia
3 at this time. The term strong mayor is a -- is
4 a -- excuse me, it's a misnomer because it --
5 in reality, it actually weakens the power and
6 influence of the council members and
7 (inaudible) the citizens. We urge the members
8 of Council, and the strongest way to reject
9 this proposed change and avoid any unnecessary
10 (inaudible) for permanent resources. Voting
11 against this proposal is the clear choice, for
12 all who want to preserve a stronger voice for
13 the citizens of Columbia. Thank you.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Sampson.
15 (Applause.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Cutler. After Mr. Cutler,
17 we're going to have George Green and Mr. John
18 Lumpkin.
19 MR. CUTLER: Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council,
20 it's a pleasure be here today. And I live at
21 2211 Read Street, Oak Read Highrise. I am a --
22 the president of the Residential Council for
23 Columbia Housing Authority. And our concerns
24 are whether this Council will stand by those of
25 low and to moderate income in the future. We
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1 are (inaudible) the door of opportunity, steer
2 over for people with jobs, further (ph)
3 education and not just focus on corporate
4 entities in and out of state controlling
5 everything we do. We support ---
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. CUTLER: --- (inaudible) the people of Columbia
8 allow every member of Council to be voted in --
9 -
10 UNKNOWN MALE: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
11 MR. CUTLER: --- and we support your all's decisions
12 and we know as a group, as a whole, that you
13 will make the right decisions and lead this --
14 this city into the future. (Inaudible)? I
15 worked for parks and recreation before I
16 retired and came to be a part of Columbia
17 Housing Authority, and I'm sure Ms. Plaugh
18 remembers that this city was strongly
19 supportive of family issues. I mean, in the
20 past, everything that was needed for the family
21 was provided -- opportunities, they stood by
22 us. Right now, that is a glim -- dim image
23 over the (inaudible) families at this point.
24 We are hoping that a strong mayor leadership,
25 along with City Council, come up with some
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1 decision for the future. Now, it's about our
2 children anyway ---
3 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, sir.
4 MR. CUTLER: --- and to lead this city into a
5 positive and productive city, we are gonna have
6 to work together.
7 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, sir.
8 MR. CUTLER: But do not close the door of
9 opportunity for those who are not able to get
10 out and obtain their goals. Provide
11 opportunity, vocation schools, something that
12 they can go forward with also.
13 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
14 MR. CUTLER: Do not close that door of opportunity
15 for those that we know in the future we're
16 going to need.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We're in this together.
18 MR. CUTLER: The future scholars of this nation come
19 from our young people.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
21 MR. CUTLER: Thank you for the opportunity ---
22 (Applause.)
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Green then Mr. Lumpkin then
24 Gary Cannon.
25 UNKNOWN MALE: I have to -- excuse me, Mr. Mayor.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
2 UNKNOWN MALE: I have to make amends for Mr. --
3 Commissioner Green.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
5 UNKNOWN MALE: He had some problems out there, and
6 he's not able to be here.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, all right. Well, thank you,
8 thank you. Mr. Lumpkin?
9 MR. LUMPKIN: Mr. Mayor, members of Council, may
10 name is John Lumpkin. I reside at 490
11 Alexander Circle. I'm a resident of Columbia
12 and a registered voter. I hadn't planned to
13 say this first thing in (inaudible) but I'm
14 very proud of the fact that my dad, back in
15 those days when it wasn't -- when this Council
16 was not inclusive -- was not representative of
17 our citizens, was on the group that pulled
18 together and put together and successfully
19 pushed forward the 4-2-1 form of government
20 that we have today. Very proud of that. I am
21 here to urge you, regardless of where -- what
22 your position is -- each of your positions is,
23 whether you support a strong mayor or not
24 support, I urge you to allow our citizens to
25 vote. It's been said time and again, allow our
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1 citizens to vote this November for the --
2 whether or not our citizens would decide there
3 should be a change in our form of government.
4 A few years ago, there was a commission
5 appointed by the -- it was -- this mayor --
6 the current mayor was not here, the current
7 manager was not here, there were 12 in on that
8 commission, 10 voted to change our form of
9 government to support a full-time mayor in
10 Columbia. Five Caucasians, five African
11 Americans -- you may know a few of them. The
12 -- Patton Adams, a former mayor, chaired the
13 commission. It was Millie (ph) (inaudible) on
14 that -- that voted for it. The board attorney
15 voted for it. Darren Thomas, the (inaudible)
16 the business person voted for it. Jack Doty,
17 banker, voted for it. Bobby Gist of -- in the
18 administration down at the university voted for
19 it. Bob Anderson voted for it. Diane Sumter
20 voted for it. I forget the last couple that --
21 so it's -- it was an inclusive vote to have us
22 change this form of government, as we said
23 earlier, be more accountable. But which --
24 regardless of where you stand on this issue, I
25 implore you to put this on the ballot and let
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1 the citizens decide. Thank you very much.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
3 (Applause.)
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: After Mr. Cannon, we have Helen
5 Brooks and then Dennis Bell.
6 MR. CANNON: Thank you, Mayor and Council. My name
7 is Gary Cannon. I appreciate the opportunity
8 to be before you tonight and talk about this
9 important issue. My wife and I reside at 4321
10 Deveraux Road in Columbia. We are both
11 residents of the City of Columbia and
12 registered voters. I'm here tonight speaking
13 as a citizen, a concerned citizen. I do not
14 represent any special interest group. I'm
15 interested in effective and efficient local
16 government because I've worked in local
17 government for over 30 years. I've either
18 worked in local government or for local
19 government for over 30 years. I'm here tonight
20 to speak in opposition to changing the form of
21 government from the council-manager to the
22 mayor-council form. Now, while you're not
23 voting tonight on the actual change, as Council
24 Member Runyan pointed out, you will be
25 considering placing the vote, or the question,
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1 on the ballot in November. And I'm concerned
2 that there has been a rush to get this on the
3 ballot without the adequate amount of time to
4 educate the public on what the differences are
5 and what they're voting for. The government
6 allows open and honest debate about issues that
7 impact its citizens. A rush to put this on the
8 ballot does not provide the time the citizens
9 to be informed about the differences in the two
10 forms of government and to really understand
11 what the city manager does and what the role of
12 the mayor is in the strong mayor form of
13 government. It does not give us the time to
14 really understand why the city is having
15 problems. We are -- and really decide if the
16 form of government is the problem or the
17 individuals occupying the positions -- elected
18 and appointed positions are the problem. I
19 have been a city manager in two cities in South
20 Carolina and worked in county government in
21 North Carolina. But the two cities I worked at
22 in South Carolina, they were council-manager
23 form of government, they were successful. I've
24 heard comments from those who think the current
25 system is broke, so let's fix it by changing
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1 the form of government. I recall the city was
2 mentioning (ph) that terrible financial
3 condition, but we're not that way today any
4 more thanks to you and those in the office now.
5 Thanks to your commitment as elected officials,
6 partnering with your city manager, you fixed
7 it. It is not the form of government that
8 caused the problems, it was not the form of
9 government that fixed it, it was each one of
10 you and those in those positions, elected,
11 representing the constituents and every one of
12 the individuals in the professional managements
13 you hire working to achieve the common goal.
14 In 1949, the state voted by a two to one margin
15 to change the form of government to its
16 council-manager form we have today. Since that
17 time, the form of government has worked well
18 because of the individuals that make up the
19 form -- the government, both elected and
20 appointed. The council-manager form will
21 continue to be successful if you are committed
22 to make it work and they make it successful.
23 I see it as your responsibility as the elected
24 officials representing the -- us, the citizens
25 here tonight and those who could not be here,
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1 to ensure the form of government works to its
2 highest and best capacity. If you're not
3 committed to making that happen, then it will
4 not. The state will continue to have problems,
5 be inefficient and ineffective and
6 dysfunctional. It will continue to take too
7 long to get things done as the business
8 community has stated. I see that here now is
9 a legislative policy making body doing duly
10 created and given statutory duties and
11 responsibilities by the South Carolina Code of
12 Laws to create a vision for the city based on
13 which your constituents want and need, and
14 letting the professional management and staff
15 go to work to see that that vision is
16 accomplished. There are three things I would
17 ask of you tonight. One, do not -- do not put
18 this on a ballot for the November election.
19 Number two, it's apparent by the comments made
20 previously, there's a tremendous gap in the
21 educational understanding of what's at question
22 here. You've heard 4-2-1, 4-2-1. There needs
23 to be more time and more education that is for
24 the -- for the community -- our community. If
25 you are so interested in getting the question
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1 before the voters, and I have no problem with
2 letting the voters decide on the form of
3 government, I would recommend and suggest that
4 you delay it until another time and not put it
5 on the ballot this November and give the
6 citizens an adequate amount of time to League
7 of Women Voters and those organizations that
8 educate the individuals in this community on
9 what they'll be voting on. And that you, as a
10 -- as an organization, the city, sponsor, along
11 with the nonpartisan organizations, educate ---
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Gary, I'm going to cut you off.
13 MR. CANNON: I'm sorry. Three minutes, sorry.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah.
15 MR. CANNON: Okay.
16 UNKNOWN VOICE: He didn't know it.
17 MR. CANNON: I'm sure I did not.
18 (Laughter.)
19 MR. CANNON: I -- thank you very much, I appreciate
20 the time. Sorry for running over.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, thank you.
22 MR. CANNON: Thank you.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The ---
24 MS. WILSON: If you could provide your comments
25 (inaudible) Council, that would be ---
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1 MR. CANNON: Oh, well, thank you.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Helen Brooks, Mr. Dennis Bell
3 and then Earl Fulton Brown, Junior.
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
5 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you.
6 MR. BELL: Mayor, Council, I wasn't prepared to give
7 a speech. I don't know how my name got on the
8 list. Earl Brown ---
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. BELL: Live at 9042 Kinderway Avenue here in
11 Columbia.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You were just signing as present,
13 huh?
14 MR. BELL: (Inaudible.)
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. BELL: However, a lot of what has been said, I
17 agree with. You know, vote for and against the
18 strong mayor system. I do think that it is --
19 I don't think it should be put on the
20 referendum -- be put up for a vote this
21 November. Maybe the next big election that we
22 have so we can educate the people a little bit
23 more. And if it is passed or not, it not be
24 implemented until the 2018 year I think.
25 That'll give us time to educate the people to
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1 at least let us know what we're voting for, the
2 pros and the cons. I understand it but I'm
3 sure a lot of our voters probably don't. Thank
4 you.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right, thank you. The -- Mr.
6 Bell, Mr. Bell here?
7 UNKNOWN MALE: That was Mr. Bell.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. I'm sorry, Dennis. I'm
9 sorry. I -- Ms. Brooks didn't show up, I'm
10 sorry. Mr. Brown and Howard Duvall and then
11 Ms. Janet Jordan.
12 UNKNOWN MALE: Christopher ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I need -- Earl's first now.
14 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You're first now.
16 UNKNOWN MALE: They're getting in line.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, they're getting in line.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you very much (inaudible).
19 MR. BROWN: Councilor, you're retired after 54 years
20 in this business. You wonder how you continue
21 until you see these beautiful faces. People
22 who have an opportunity to work in the
23 (inaudible), it means (audible) years. And I
24 must say, it sounds important (inaudible).
25 This current thing that we're talking about now
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1 was instituted when you and I ran against --
2 ran against (inaudible) City Council which was
3 one of my (inaudible) . And that's been pretty
4 well 25, 30 years ago.
5 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
6 MR. BROWN: --- and Council and for the Mayor, it's
7 been a huge change (ph) for me to get an
8 opportunity to speak before City Council, and
9 particularly in the role of which I had an
10 opportunity to serve in this state. I had an
11 opportunity to serve all 46 counties, all 635
12 municipalities, United States federal
13 government (inaudible) State of Columbia for 54
14 years. (Inaudible) that, had an opportunity to
15 work with (inaudible) and to see how the
16 administrations and the various forms of
17 management and the three forms of governments
18 and which, at that time, put into place with
19 local people. The Constitution says well, we
20 the people, that's what the preamble says, we
21 the people. And if the people don't get an
22 opportunity to make decisions about what
23 direction their lives are going to be governed
24 by and particularly, all of you are honorable,
25 you know, I respect all of you, I'd take you
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1 all out to dinner (inaudible). But it's very
2 important, ladies and gentlemen, that we take
3 a look at change. Now, we're not talking about
4 hiring no Bill Gates, we're not talking about
5 hiring a CEO and going to pay him $100,000,
6 $200,000 a year. We're talking about citizens
7 being able to look among themselves and vote in
8 pattern and bring about the best form of
9 government -- that can be governments -- by the
10 standards in which you have set. Everything
11 else has been put in place for City Council.
12 You goals, your mission, objectives and all of
13 this. Give the lady who now serves as your
14 city manager, ain't got no disrespect for that,
15 you put things in place. But when change come,
16 you gotta be able to adapt to it, and you got
17 to be ready for it. And if we're not ready for
18 this change, Sam, then let's just wait another
19 14 or 15 years and I might run again, Sam, when
20 I'm a hundred.
21 (Laughter.)
22 MR. BROWN: Anyways, I want to thank you, ladies and
23 gentlemen, because I endorse the mayor form of
24 government. And again, thank you for
25 (inaudible) comments, and to my councilman and
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1 the gentleman who asked about where I reside.
2 I reside at 2068 Pavilion Towers, Columbia for
3 34 years, downtown. Thank you so very, very
4 much.
5 (Applause.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. Mr. Duvall and then we
7 have Ms. Janet Jordan and then we have Ms.
8 Ellen Triplett. Hey Howard.
9 MR. DUVALL: Good evening. Mayor Benjamin and
10 members of Council, I'm Howard Duvall. I live
11 at 4103 MacGregor Drive in the City of
12 Columbia, I speak tonight as a retired private
13 citizen. My opinions do not necessarily
14 reflect those of my former employee or my wife.
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. DUVALL: My experience in municipal government
17 began in 1973 when I was elected as a town
18 councilman in Cheraw. I was on council when
19 we, along with all the other municipalities in
20 our state, adopted by ordinance , an ordinance
21 required by the Home Rule Act of 1975 to choose
22 the form of government we most closely
23 resembled of the three forms authorized by the
24 that law. My council chose the mayor-council
25 form as did many of the medium and smaller
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1 cities of the state. The City of Columbia
2 chose the council-manager form because in 1949
3 the citizens of Columbia voted 1,222 to 650 to
4 install the council-manager form of government.
5 The council-manager form was the best choice
6 for Columbia in 1949, in 1975 and it is the
7 best choice for the City of Columbia today. Of
8 the 16 cities in South Carolina with
9 populations over 25,000, 10 have the
10 council-manager, three have the mayor-council
11 and three have the council form of government.
12 Nationally, in cities with populations between
13 100,000 and 250,000, 69 percent have the
14 council-manager form of government. If there
15 is a -- if there is a reason they choose --
16 these cities choose to have the manager form,
17 the cities need the professional skills of
18 these managers to run the complex organizations
19 our cities have become. The elected leadership
20 needs these professionals to make the day-to-
21 day decisions so that the elected officials,
22 you, can concentrate on vision and policy. The
23 council-manager form is perfect for the City of
24 Columbia although it has been imperfectly
25 implemented. It is not the form that needs to
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1 change, our leadership needs to change to work
2 harder to properly execute this form of
3 government. What will be the real change
4 should Columbia adopt the mayor- council form?
5 The main difference is that the mayor will
6 control the hiring and firing of the city's
7 2,000 plus employees. The mayor would still
8 require four votes to change a policy, agree to
9 a budget, adopt a new program or project, or
10 commit the city to a course of action. I
11 noticed in the -- Monday's State, as did Mrs.
12 Cooper, a story about the mayor recruiting a
13 baseball -- a team to build a baseball stadium.
14 He said he was a committee of one on Council to
15 support a stadium so I have to build consensus
16 or change the form of government. Mayor, you
17 will need a consensus and four votes to do
18 anything with the mayor-council form just as
19 you do under the council-manager form. Mayor
20 Benjamin is a strong mayor. By the fact that
21 he is our mayor, he has an office that is
22 called on by new industries, developers and
23 citizens with both positive and negative things
24 to say about our city. He has a vision for our
25 city. The implementation of that vision
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1 requires using his political skills to get a
2 consensus on Council and the professional
3 skills of an experienced city manager to carry
4 out that vision. I urge the members of Council
5 to carefully consider your vote tonight. This
6 -- don't be so naive to think that this is
7 simply a matter of putting it out to the people
8 to vote. There are powerful forces, obviously
9 displayed tonight with all the accoutrements of
10 a well-organized campaign behind this push to
11 change our form of government. And they will
12 easily drown out any civic groups presenting an
13 educational campaign before the November
14 election. I ask you to vote against the motion
15 to have a referendum on the form of government
16 in November. I'll be glad to answer any
17 questions.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Howard. So Howard,
19 you're saying don't have a referendum or don't
20 ever change the form of government. Are you
21 saying ---
22 MR. DUVALL: I say don't have a referendum in
23 November and I don't think we need to change
24 the form of government in the City of Columbia.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ever?
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1 MR. DUVALL: Ever.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, fine, okay.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. DUVALL: (Inaudible) I would say make that
5 classification.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, thank you, buddy (ph).
7 MR. DUVALL: Thank you.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right, good seeing you. The --
9 (inaudible) Ms. Janet Jordan. Ms. Jordan and
10 then Ms. Ellen Triplett and then Mr. Daniel
11 Rickenmann.
12 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And you're in camp (inaudible),
14 right?
15 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I don't know if (inaudible) change
16 the form of government.
17 (Laughter.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Go ahead, Ms. Jordan. (Inaudible.)
19 MS. JORDAN: Thank you so much, Mayor.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
21 MS. JORDAN: I just want to first start out by
22 saying thank you for bringing yourselves here
23 this evening so we could have this opportunity
24 to talk with you tonight.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am, thank you.
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1 MS. JORDAN: And I'm standing up here as a
2 hardworking woman and a grandmother of almost
3 10, one of which lives in my neighborhood and
4 the rest of them are scattered out all over the
5 world so -- anyway, that's what I do in my
6 spare time and I also work hard for our
7 neighborhood. And I just want to say that
8 Mayor Benjamin and the Council worked hard for
9 us when we came before the Council a couple
10 years ago and they did really good things. I
11 just want to stand up here and say I'm not
12 taking a position on strong mayor or on, you
13 know, on any kind of government setup. What
14 I'm here to talk about is our right as voters
15 and we do have a right to vote and I think
16 we're going to have that opportunity. But I
17 want to make sure that what we're voting for
18 makes sense for the City of Columbia. And I
19 really believe that putting the vote on the
20 agenda for November is really not a
21 deliberative process for the voters in this
22 city. And with all due respect to everyone
23 here ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
25 MS. JORDAN: --- let's just be patient and let's
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1 talk and let's do good things that have nothing
2 to do with politics but everything to do about
3 the future of this city, the future that we're
4 trying to build for our children and the future
5 that we're trying to build for their children.
6 That's all I have to say.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 MS. JORDAN: Oh, I didn't say my name.
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah.
11 MS. JORDAN: I'm Janet Jordan and I live at 974
12 Montague Road.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I love how everyone wants to brag
14 about their grandchildren. He's --- my father-
15 in-law last week, I said isn't it one of the
16 miracles of history that the boy who was not
17 good enough to marry your daughter can have the
18 most brilliant grandchildren?
19 (Laughter.)
20 MS. TRIPLETT: I'm Ellen Fishburne Triplett, and I
21 live at 203 Summerlea Drive 29203. I'm here as
22 an individual, not as a representative of any
23 organization, and I'm a grandmother as well.
24 (Laughter.)
25 MS. TRIPLETT: Just fresh, two months old.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
2 MS. TRIPLETT: Thank you very much, Mayor and
3 Council, for having us here tonight and letting
4 us express our opinions. I don't believe we
5 need a change in the form of our government.
6 However, I do believe we need a referendum with
7 a caveat, people have to be educated about it.
8 Put the information in water bills like we do
9 everything else. Make sure ---
10 (Laughter.)
11 MS. TRIPLETT: --- It gets to everybody that way.
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: It really does.
13 MS. TRIPLETT: Make sure that all the civic groups,
14 all the neighborhood groups, any churches that
15 are interested, have the opportunity to have a
16 speaker, have the materials available, make
17 sure everyone gets educated on the forms of
18 government and please do have the referendum.
19 I believe that it's our right to vote, and I
20 don't think it's too soon to do that if we do
21 a flash bang job putting it out there. I do
22 agree also with the 2018 date for
23 implementation. Thank you.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Triplett.
25 (Applause.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Daniel, and I see the Carters, I'm
2 not sure if the Carters wanted to speak. Ms.
3 Gwen Carter? I'm not sure if everyone is
4 speaking this issue. Is Ms. Carter still here?
5 Okay. Well then, after Mr. Rickenmann, we'll
6 hear from -- (inaudible) you need to help me
7 throughout this thing, (inaudible).
8 MR. RICKENMANN: Good evening, Council members. I'm
9 not -- I'm not here to talk about the issue of
10 whether you should put it on the ballot or you
11 shouldn't put it on the ballot, but I think
12 there's a lot of questions that haven't been
13 answered before you take that vote. I have yet
14 to hear when this goes in effect. Not one
15 person has committed to when that date is.
16 I've heard the crowd in here ask for a later
17 date. When is that date? I think you need to
18 tell people. What, is this effective
19 immediately, is this 2016 like it's been talked
20 about before, what is the date? What is gonna
21 happen to the city manager, what is your role
22 there? How is that going to be handled? The
23 mayor's gonna be a full-time mayor. What are
24 we going to pay the new CEO of our city. All
25 of these type of questions need to be answered
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1 and told to this community before we vote. I
2 heard a gentleman say we're not going to pay
3 him $100,000. Well, Joe Riley makes a 160.
4 His administrator makes 220, you know? There's
5 so much discussion about changing the form, and
6 I find it interesting and since this discussion
7 has come up, that everybody's ignored
8 Greenville which has our form of government and
9 I think they're doing pretty well. I think
10 this city has done real well. Mayor, I think
11 you've been a strong mayor in your position
12 now. You know ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, I'm not a strong mayor, I'm a
14 dictator.
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. RICKENMANN: You said it, not me ---
17 (Laughter.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) dictator something
19 brand new.
20 MR. RICKENMANN: (Inaudible) do not quote me on
21 that.
22 (Laughter.)
23 MR. RICKENMANN: The magic (ph) pen is already
24 there. But I think -- I think -- well, if
25 you're going to vote on this, make sure that
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1 you fill us in on everything. Because when
2 people go to the ballot, they need to know what
3 they're voting on. And it needs to be an
4 educational process and you know, it is, it's
5 confusing of what the strong mayor really does.
6 It is a full-time position, it is the CEO, he
7 does hire and fire everybody, it is a
8 difference, it's a big difference in what we've
9 seen. And I just encourage you to fill us in
10 before you take this vote. I know there's a
11 (inaudible) to vote tonight, Mayor, and I hope
12 you'll consider in telling us what ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think those are great questions,
14 Daniel, and some of them, if the Council
15 doesn't mind me waiving privilege on some of
16 the discussion we had with chief counsel
17 earlier. You all -- you all fine with that?
18 Okay. No, Mr. Gaines -- Mr. Gaines -- and we
19 can talk about it a little later one --
20 suggested, it's of course the prerogative of
21 Council, but that the Attorney General says
22 that the -- changing the form of government
23 should take place upon the validation of votes
24 of citizens. So his recommendation was that it
25 would take place on January 1st of 2014.
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: At that -- yes, but the A -- the
3 AG's opinion says it takes effect immediately.
4 Mr. Gaines' recommendation was just as -- cause
5 we had April elections and we took it back in
6 July, November election, it will take effect in
7 January. His recommendation was January of
8 2014. The compensation of the mayor will be
9 set by Council. Your right, and Joe Riley does
10 make $162,300 (ph) or whatever it happens to
11 be, but -- and we noted that Joe Riley, just
12 like the mayor of Jacksonville, just like the
13 mayor of Louisville, just like the mayor of
14 Atlanta and every other city that has a mayor-
15 council strong mayor form of government, hires
16 an able administrator. And in (ph) this form
17 of government in South Carolina Code of Laws,
18 the council plays a role in the selection of
19 that administrator and would continue to
20 respectively. So -- but those are all
21 discussions that need to be had, need to be
22 discussed, need to be discussed publicly. And
23 it's also interesting to note, we just opened
24 filing for office on Monday, all right, and we
25 won't -- and we won't even know who the
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1 candidates for mayor are until the first week
2 of September. And I just think -- and it isn't
3 just me, we've talked about this as a group.
4 We can spend two months discussing and debating
5 and evaluating candidates, and I think we've
6 underestimated the abilities of people to
7 understand a change in the form of government.
8 It requires an aggressive education campaign.
9 It think you're right, everybody does get a
10 water bill, they'd probably rather get the
11 communication and not the bill itself.
12 (Laughter.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But everyone does get a water bill.
14 But there are -- there are -- any number of
15 effective public communication, the League of
16 Women Voters is a great tool. There's some
17 other organizations in here including
18 (inaudible) the neighborhood associations that
19 can also play role in the education process.
20 And we're taking individual roles in the
21 education process too. But I (inaudible)
22 questions of many more that we -- that the
23 Council will need to determine and put the
24 appointed people there ---
25 MR. RICKENMANN: I do think it's important. I do,
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1 you know, I do want to say it was interesting
2 to talk around the community and there's been
3 a lot of talk about the 4-2-1 and what when on
4 and I just wanted you all to remember that when
5 4-2-1 came about, it was driven by the people
6 who came to Council, not Council to the people.
7 And I do think there's a difference in that
8 kind of way, you know, and I appreciate Mr.
9 Bussell driving all the way in from Chapin
10 today to let us hear his opinion on our form of
11 government But I do think it's important that
12 you all remember that. Thank you.
13 (Applause.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now Mr. -- oh, hey, Ben.
15 MS. CARTER: Mr. Mayor, I'm Jeri Carter. I ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Hey, Ms. Carter.
17 MS. CARTER: (Inaudible.) I am (inaudible). I
18 reside at 500 Belle Claire Drive, and most of
19 you I have voted and I'm gonna go home and pray
20 if I should continue voting for you.
21 (Laughter.)
22 MS. CARTER: I'm a little concerned with the
23 craziness. I'm almost 66 years old, and it
24 just bothers me when I see people act silly,
25 grown people. Children act silly, we should
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1 not act silly. We're paying you good money to
2 represent us and when I turn on WIS or WLTX and
3 I see craziness on the news, I have to pray.
4 And when you take prayer out, you have the
5 devil in it (ph).
6 UNKNOWN MALE: Amen.
7 MS. CARTER: Now, let me tell you what I'm really
8 concerned about. You announce everywhere that
9 you were having this forum. That's fine, but
10 don't you think this was a little too small?
11 You have that huge gymnasium over there that
12 could have accommodated quite a few people.
13 And a lot of people left because they could not
14 express themselves ---
15 (Applause.)
16 MS. CARTER: --- and I think that's a travesty, I
17 really do. Also, there appears to be a power
18 struggle here. When Ms. Wheel (ph) is intact,
19 it'll roll along but when it's broken, it's not
20 going anywhere. You all need to get your house
21 in order and fix this mess. But remember,
22 democracy works. And somebody said something
23 about Detroit. We can all have the same idea
24 but we can't have difference facts. Detroit is
25 a mess because jobs were shipped oversea and
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1 people don't have jobs. Do you see where I'm
2 coming from? I'm a widow, and I pay good
3 taxes, city and county. And I have to fight
4 city, county and state sometimes just to get
5 the services that I need, and I should not have
6 to do that. So, I'm hoping that you people
7 will come together on one chord and act civilly
8 and represent your constituents and represent
9 us well. Thank you. Oh, and I -- my grandson
10 is a ---
11 (Laughter.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. -- that was Ms. Jeri. Now,
13 let's have Ms. Gwen Carter. Is Gwen ---
14 MS. CARTER: That's my daughter ---
15 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) talk, okay. All right.
17 Mr. Serge Manasse. Is Mr. Manasse still here?
18 UNKNOWN MALE: No.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think I saw him out there cause
20 -- no? Okay. Ms. Martha Fowler. And after
21 Ms. Martha Fowler, we have Ms. Mimi Wortham-
22 Brown.
23 MS. FOWLER: Good evening, thank you for inviting
24 us. I'm Martha Fowler, I live at 1429 Hagood
25 Avenue. I live in District III, thank you,
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1 Moe. I just want to -- I've been watching city
2 government very, very closely for a long, long
3 time. I'm also a grandmother. I feel like
4 it's something that we the people need to
5 decide. It's very important to me that all of
6 us get to decide, that we become educated, that
7 we know what we're talking about and that we
8 have the right to decide. Moe, when you were
9 running, you said that you were in favor of
10 strong mayor. I believe that you've changed
11 your mind on that. I'd like for you -- I'd
12 like to know why you changed your mind and I'd
13 like -- I'd like to know what makes -- what
14 makes you change your mind. I think ---
15 MR. BADDOURAH: Want me to address that now?
16 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
17 MS. FOWLER: No. You and I can -- you -- you and I
18 can do that over coffee at Millwood. I think
19 it's deplorable that we, as a city, have a
20 mayor -- and I'm not saying this because of
21 Steve -- that makes $17,000 a year and we
22 expect our mayor to be a hundred percent behind
23 us all the time when he needs to put food on
24 his table for $17,000 ---
25 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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1 MS. FOWLER: And can I just (inaudible) if you want
2 somebody that's going to fight for you all the
3 time, $17,000 ain't gonna cut it. So, thank
4 you very much and please allow the people to
5 decide. Thank you.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, Ms. Mimi Wortham-Brown. And
7 I'm not sure if Steven Larkin is still here and
8 Ms. Wally Jean Stone? Hey.
9 MS. WORTHAM-BROWN: Hey. Thank you for this
10 opportunity to all of you. I really appreciate
11 this opportunity to hear everyone's thoughts.
12 This has been a really good discussion. I want
13 to express that over the years that I have been
14 living in Columbia, I have watched over all
15 these years many an excellent mayor from
16 Kirkman Finlay until now -- I'm old enough to
17 remember Kirkland Finlay being mayor. And he
18 was a wonderful mayor, but his pants were tied
19 in many respects. And (inaudible) mayors have
20 had that same experience. And I do think the
21 public needs to be educated on this and all the
22 things that come along with it, level of pay,
23 all the changes that will roll into effect
24 along with this. It's all important to be
25 determined up front and the public be educated
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1 on. But I am one who -- just not to stray in
2 a wrong manner, I heard it said earlier, with
3 all due respect to the person who said it, he
4 didn't want us to go back to the previous
5 referendum at which this was decided
6 previously. Well, we don't need to go back, we
7 need to go forward. And the city, we need a
8 strong mayor to move us forward. We do need to
9 educate the public about all the peripherals
10 that go along with this, but it's important to
11 give the people the opportunity to have their
12 say, and I encourage you to do that. Don't be
13 afraid of what may happen, just let's get this
14 done. And I do not want to see any further
15 delays. This education process can be rolled
16 out, it can be done. We're not stupid, we can
17 figure it out. Just give us the information
18 and let us have it, and let's get this done.
19 UNKNOWN MALE: Amen.
20 MS. CARTER: Thank you (inaudible).
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Steven Larkin and Wally Jean Stone?
22 The -- and I see -- I see two folks who signed
23 up. I'm not sure if they signed up for this
24 discussion or the one on homelessness. I'll
25 make sure I don't miss them, but Paul Gaffney
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1 and Linda Gaffney? You going to speak on this
2 issue? Oh please, please, please.
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. And for those of you who are
5 standing, there are seats that have opened up
6 over here if you want to have a seat. Except
7 for Howard. Mr. Gaffney, yes, sir.
8 MR. GAFFNEY: Your Honor, Council, I'm not the
9 youngest voter here but I am probably the
10 newest. I've been a resident here since 2012
11 at Gist Street 29201. I'm not happy to be
12 here. I think my personal preference is that
13 there's a benevolent board of trustees or
14 directors, Council that gives authority and
15 responsibility to an executive who executes
16 that for the citizens of the town. My second
17 priority would be that everyone gets a chance
18 to vote and they get a chance to vote right
19 now. They're not going to get any smarter
20 (inaudible) constituents gonna go to sleep.
21 After the next election, we'll be having the
22 same debate in four years. Thank you very
23 much.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, sir.
25 (Applause.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And Mrs. Gaffney? No? Okay.
2 (Inaudible) had Pete Storm and Don Tomlin
3 signed up. Is there anyone else who wants to
4 speak on this issue that has not had a chance
5 to speak yet? Oh, I'm sorry, Deacon Carter.
6 Durham Carter, please, the podium is yours.
7 Okay, all right. Does anyone speak (inaudible)
8 speak out there too? I would encourage
9 everyone to sign up if you haven't, but Mr.
10 Carter, and don't raise your hand, Femi, Dean,
11 Jaja and make sure everyone gets a chance to
12 sign on -- if you haven't signed on, sign up so
13 we can have a record of these folks. Thank
14 you, Deacon.
15 MR. DURHAM: My name Durham E. Carter. I'm a life
16 resident of Columbia. I have lived at 812 Oak
17 Street for the last 65 years. I had planned
18 not saying anything but listening to others,
19 but I was reminded of the people who have gone
20 to be with our maker who came together in 1970
21 to bring about charges against the City of
22 Columbia for single member district. And
23 something spoke to me and said that you are
24 letting those people down. If you are blessed
25 and still here, not to say something in regard
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1 to what we once were. I'm not saying that we
2 have not made progress in Columbia but
3 something is broken with the system. We need
4 to change. I think we are talking about a
5 change in Columbia. Yes, you are changing, but
6 are you changing in the right direction. If
7 you are changing, why every month I got to call
8 the mayor about certain issues in my
9 neighborhood, or the city manager about my
10 collection of (inaudible), about the crime here
11 in Lower Waverly, about the abandoned houses,
12 the overgrown lots. It's not only in the Lower
13 Waverly area, why do I got to have a big stick
14 by my front door with the wife confined to a
15 wheelchair and I'm going in my house to protect
16 me from where the university students, and I'm
17 sorry but I got to say it, it's just that are
18 taking over the residential area with over
19 crowdedness, drunkenness, after Five Points and
20 in particular when there are games. Why do I
21 have to live like that? Why do I have to
22 continue to call Council members, and I have
23 talked to just about everyone that is sitting
24 up there about these issues. Some houses in
25 the area got 10 living in there. The city
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1 folks know about these things. Nothing is
2 being done. There are houses in the Lower
3 Waverly area that have been vacant over 25
4 years and still boarded up. You're telling me
5 you don't need a change. Something is wrong
6 with the system. And if you are thinking
7 differently, something is wrong with you.
8 (Laughter and applause.)
9 MR. DURHAM: And I'm sorry to say that. How can you
10 say here -- sit here and say all is well? All
11 is not well. When you (inaudible) about you
12 can't go no place at night, you can't go to the
13 mall, it's not all right. But I have to call
14 and schedule a meeting with the city manager
15 because somewhere along the line, nice is not
16 getting where it should get. So I'm thinking
17 in terms of this system got to be changed.
18 It's broken. The things that we fought for
19 when we started the (inaudible) of 6-2-1
20 because of the system that Mr. Felder spoke of,
21 when everything was taken (inaudible) one
22 particular area. My neighborhood was adjacent
23 to this particular area, but everyone on City
24 Council came from this one particular area. It
25 is cleaned (ph) in this area and whenever they
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1 got to my area, it was okay. And that's why we
2 fought that in the '70s to bring about changes,
3 and we need to continue to fight to bring about
4 some changes. We need some changes and I am
5 one of those who say we need to vote. You need
6 to show your face. You need to show your true
7 colors. Let's vote for this referendum. Let
8 the people act. This is a democracy, there
9 should be nothing about putting it on the
10 ballot. So put it on the ballot and let the
11 people decide. Thank you.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Deacon.
13 (Applause.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Femi Olulenu and Mr. Dean Slade and
15 Jaja Akair after that.
16 MR. OLULENU: Good evening. My name is Femi
17 Olulenu. I come from a traditional (inaudible)
18 system sometimes from jokes, you can tell the
19 truth. And one -- and my lovely mayor said a
20 minute ago, that he's a dictator. And that's
21 what we really don't want. We really need
22 someone that you go to, would you like
23 (inaudible) mayor that is so strong that all
24 the Council peoples are ineffective. I read in
25 paper where one person negotiated Bull Street.
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1 Why do I have other councilmen. I read in the
2 paper when one person states I'm going to bring
3 a baseball to Columbia. Why do we have people
4 on the City Council? Where do we have this
5 requirement for stadium. Oh, is this in
6 American? I thought everybody's voice has to
7 be heard. And for us to be heard, we have to
8 call our Council representatives. And we have
9 one person who hires and makes all the
10 decisions, then that one person can tell us
11 what to speak with our wives just about.
12 (Laughter.)
13 MR. OLULENU: And that ain't right. We don't need
14 that much power in one person. Thank you.
15 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Thank you.
16 (Applause.)
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Olulenu ---
18 MR. SLADE: My name is ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- the most memorable quotes
20 tonight.
21 (Laughter.)
22 MR. SLADE: Yes, sir. Dean Slade. I live at 1010
23 Timrod Street here in the Eau Claire community.
24 Mr. Mayor and members of Council, I think what
25 I would like would be for the city manager to
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1 be sitting here, for the CEO to sitting here.
2 Cause we don't -- we don't have an
3 administration that is in the hot seat and that
4 -- that's desperately what we need. We need
5 more accountability and it needs to be with an
6 elected official. I think that that really is
7 the key to the whole thing is that we can hold
8 our city accountable and our administration
9 accountable. And I think, you know, it's a
10 misnomer to call Ms. Wilson a manager when it
11 says up there that she is the CEO, and the CEO
12 normally sits with these people not facing
13 them. And I think that's part of the problem
14 with the dynamic that we've had is that we
15 don't have a CEO and -- because we have a
16 misnomer in terms of this -- the way the cat
17 (ph) flies, the whole thing. So that's my
18 opinion. Thank you.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And thank you, Dan.
20 MR. AKAIR: How you doing, Mayor, City Council. I'm
21 just confused about all of this because I
22 thought when they elected Stephen Benjamin, he
23 was the strong candidate for being mayor. So
24 about it being strength or strong, that's what
25 I thought it was all about. I thought the
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1 vote, that's what it was all about before. We
2 elected a mayor that was going to run this city
3 for us, not for himself, not for City Council,
4 but for us. If we have problems in the city,
5 we should (inaudible) to City Council, you
6 know, but here it is, it's a lot griping and
7 I'm trying to find out why is there so much
8 friction in the Council. You know?
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. AKAIR: If the Council is not going to get
11 together and join together, why should we vote
12 for people to have a strong -- to stand up
13 here and fight for us when they can't even run
14 their own office. Now -- but, what I'm saying
15 is this, and being a strong mayor, who are you
16 gonna represent, the rich? Are you going to
17 represent the poor? Or are you going to
18 represent everyone? I want know who's going to
19 represent everyone. I don't care if your
20 black, white, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Af- -- I
21 mean, it don't make no difference what color
22 you are. You are here to be a leader for us,
23 not for yourself, not for the City Council, you
24 know, but for us. If we're not happy, they'll
25 vote you -- they'll get you out. Some kind of
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1 way, somebody'll get you out, you know? But I
2 say this, Mayor, I'm for you, you notice that?
3 Oh, by the way, my name is Jaja. I am the
4 spokesperson for the homeless and I am the
5 mediator. But I just say I support you as long
6 as you are gonna do things right for the city.
7 The city needs to grow. The city needs to get
8 rid of a few -- a lot of problems that don't
9 need to be in the city. This is a beautiful
10 city. I've been in the city five years now.
11 I love the city. But it's just like the lady,
12 there's just some crazy things going on the
13 city, but can't nobody figure out why it's
14 going wrong, no. So we need to find out what
15 is the friction that's going on, why we can't
16 all just get along as a city, as a city, each
17 and every one of us need to come together and
18 find out what's good for the city and not just
19 for our own pockets. That's all I got to say.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Great job. Thank you, Jaja. And
21 if anyone else wants to sign up, please ---
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm doing -- probably gonna have
24 all six of them in front of me right now. Come
25 on, come on, please. State you name and
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1 address for record or I'll ask (inaudible).
2 MR. BULLOCK: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of
3 City Council. My name is Benjamin Bullock. I
4 am a resident at 1106 Edgefield Street and I
5 work. I was educated in the city at the
6 University of South Carolina and have my
7 master's degree in social work and in public
8 administration. As a public administrator, the
9 professionalism of professional staff in the
10 city is important to me as a private citizen in
11 this city. I really do believe that a city --
12 a truly great city is led by professional staff
13 who has been educated and know how to run the
14 city and are apolitical. They're not involved
15 in the politics, they're not involved in the
16 policies, they're involved in the
17 implementation. And I believe in separation of
18 powers, that an elected council decides the
19 policy and the professional staff carry it out.
20 And so I stand before you in opposition to the
21 strong mayor system. Thank you.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. Bullock.
23 (Applause.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is there anyone else who's gonna --
25 who has not signed to speak and wanted to speak
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1 on this particular issue? Oh, please.
2 MS. COOPER: Hello, I'm Elaine Cooper and I live at
3 -- I live in the City of Columbia. And I would
4 like to caution all of us because I have the
5 life experience of living through Mayor Daley
6 in Chicago. He was and has a great reputation
7 of being one of the most corrupt tyrannical
8 mayors that existed. Chicago still lives under
9 the shadow of Mayor Daley with all the crony
10 system that's in place. Hence, I do believe
11 that the voters should decide but it would take
12 a great deal of time that the League of Women
13 Voters has talked about in educating the public
14 about the repercussions of their vote. And --
15 so anyways, it's just a thought that we don't
16 want another Mayor Daley. We don't want
17 another corrupt, tyrannical mayor -- think
18 about it.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Elaine. What's your --
20 what's your address for the record?
21 MS. COOPER: 3105 Dalloz, D-A-L-L-O-Z, Road.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. All right. No one else on
23 the speak. All right, okay. Okay. I'm sorry
24 ma'am.
25 MS. WEBB: Hi, I'm Kate Webb and I live at 1917
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1 Senate Street.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Hey, Ms. Webb.
3 MS. WEBB: And the only thing that I had wanted to
4 add is that I would like to be on the committee
5 who words the referendum. I think there are so
6 many referendum that nobody understands what's
7 being said so I don't ---
8 (Laughter.)
9 MS. WEBB: I think maybe the League of Women Voters
10 should be in charge of that.
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, yeah. Ms. Devine had made
13 note at the -- the wording for the referendum
14 was actually -- is actually defined by statute
15 so the wording is not something -- that's
16 something Council has already kind of discussed
17 a little bit. How you word it is defined by
18 statute and it'll be -- it will be set. Now,
19 the education process, I think, could be done
20 by (inaudible) is something that I think a
21 whole lot of folks would and should bring up
22 (inaudible). Thank you, Ms. Webb. Be seated,
23 ma'am. I'd like -- all right, thank you. All
24 right (inaudible) for some -- and everyone has
25 something discussion. Let's start some
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1 statements.
2 UNKNOWN MALE: If we don't, we will be ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Proceed with (inaudible) comments.
4 Let's let everyone have something to say. Mr.
5 Davis got a legal pad there, I'm afraid to let
6 you talk first now. The ---
7 MR. DAVIS: No, I don't need to talk first.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. All right.
9 MR. DAVIS: Let me start it off by saying this -- I
10 love this city. I think I've -- I think I've
11 been in every nook and cranny of this city.
12 I've never been afraid to talk to constituents,
13 whether they agree with me or disagree with me.
14 I think I step in the fire most often. It's
15 called neighborhood meetings, it's called the
16 grocery store, down the aisles, and it's
17 pumping gas. I think that's how you get to
18 know where people really stand or how they feel
19 about you or the system you represent. I'm
20 going to preface my statements by saying I
21 think my mayor is doing a good job. I think
22 the whole issue is not about strong mayor, it's
23 about strong leadership. The present mayor is
24 a strong leader. That's priceless where you
25 don't have to put it into a structure, it's
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1 there. I think you can look at where the city
2 is right now and, you know, progress that -- we
3 were doing that but, you know, I think we all
4 can agree that there's some reflections that
5 has to go on. Hearing that tonight also. But
6 there -- there's a vision now that has not been
7 around for a few years. Every person that sits
8 in that chair, they come with their own vision
9 and if there's one person that's in that chair
10 that doesn't have vision, therefore, we won't
11 have leadership. Shame on some of the people
12 that said let us drop the 4-2-1 fight into
13 this. I was inspired by some of the folks that
14 put it together. I was lucky enough to help in
15 that situation. I know what a city-wide fight
16 is all about -- it ain't pretty, it's nasty and
17 it has personal implications. Never like to be
18 a part of that. I know what it's like to be
19 involved. I know what it's like to be
20 excluded. So, the -- there's a reason when you
21 look at -- I -- and you have to do your
22 homework, you know, look at things and go
23 places. There is a reason that the different
24 forms of government around this country are in
25 place because people there have made decisions.
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1 Council-manager form of government, I've never
2 had a problem with it. The -- well, the trend
3 of this country is that when municipalities
4 form, a lot of times for the first time out,
5 they go with the council-manager form of
6 government. There are municipalities in this
7 country that have shifted from strong mayor, we
8 will call it, to council-manager form of
9 government, Howard. So, all of that is out
10 there. I think people ought to be educated to
11 the process, you know, but at the same time,
12 I'm all for hearing. Until two or three months
13 ago, I didn't hear change the form of
14 government in the grocery store, in the
15 neighborhood meetings, when I'm pumping gas.
16 That is not what people are on my back about.
17 They're on my back about the fathers who and
18 the (inaudible) who used to be in this city
19 every day. This is for the homeless (ph) and
20 we do it but do it right.
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. DAVIS: This is (inaudible) in my backyard, my
23 property (inaudible), my basement is flooded --
24 you don't -- you won't want to know how many
25 basements I've been in and how many backyards
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1 and how many ditches I've been in over the past
2 two months with all the rain. Tear down that
3 abandoned house, (inaudible) absentee landlord,
4 hold tenants accountable, hold landlords
5 accountable. I -- when I stand up here and I'm
6 listening to this tonight, I remember my -- I
7 reflect to my first pothole. Those are the
8 things you remember because it's all about
9 service, that comes first. I don't -- I don't
10 want to go through another fight, I don't -- I
11 don't think that's healthy for this city. We
12 -- I don't think compare Columbia, as an
13 example, with Charleston. Don't. Charleston
14 has its own history, its own experience and
15 that's why they're great. They live off of
16 that. I don't want us to continue to try to
17 define -- redefine and -- ourselves and re-
18 brand ourselves, you know? Be strong and stand
19 on what you're all about. I can tell you that
20 in areas where people have shifted from strong
21 mayor -- strong mayor forms of government to
22 council-managers and (inaudible), they had a
23 very good reason. However, (inaudible) problem
24 with us. I don't want my son to want -- to
25 come back to this town -- James, stand up.
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1 James has walked up to me and said (inaudible)
2 he grew up with my son ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) talk like that's not
4 your son.
5 (Laughter.)
6 MR. DAVIS: (Inaudible.) Here's what I -- here's
7 the scenario you hear. He wants to study for
8 legal science, he wants to study government.
9 It doesn't matter if (inaudible) he's gotta go
10 back, but right now he's in school. I don't
11 want him to have to come back to this city and
12 want to get involved paying the dues and go and
13 get into the system and he tells me, it's too
14 political, I can't get in. You don't know
15 nobody, you don't -- you don't get nothing.
16 Those things happen in those kinds of corrupt
17 systems. They don't (inaudible) us, we can
18 manipulate, we can play it, we can do the
19 dance, but if the (inaudible) these guys,
20 they'd never get that opportunity. Those are
21 the subtleties that go along with that script.
22 I have nothing against my mayor, I love my
23 mayor. He's a (inaudible) mayor. It's not
24 about the person in that seat in this city
25 right now, it's about what happens down the
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1 road. Leadership changes and when there's a
2 change in leadership, there are changes in
3 attitudes, changes in tensions and there are
4 changes in how people go about service, okay?
5 So, this is just my opening statement but ...
6 (Laughter.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Baddourah.
8 MR. BADDOURAH: I don't have time to be great. I
9 want to share a story with you guys that I've
10 never told anybody before. As Councilor Runyan
11 brought this resolution, I will tell you a
12 story that Councilor Runyan and I had a meeting
13 after we were elected and sworn in. We talked
14 about him bringing the chance -- or bringing
15 this resolution back to Council (inaudible).
16 And we made an agreement as gentlemen to talk
17 about this as councilors, but not only that, to
18 have enough time to educate the public about
19 what are the three forms of government that the
20 public will be voting for. 10 weeks out before
21 the election is not sufficient time. I am just
22 like Councilor Davis, I talk to people, I knock
23 on doors, I go to neighborhoods, and I have
24 asked over a hundred people this weekend if
25 they know the difference between the forms of
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1 government. And they only tell me what they
2 read in the paper (inaudible).
3 (Laughter.)
4 MR. BADDOURAH: A piece of brochure, a piece of
5 paper, in the water bill is not going to give
6 you enough information to discuss whatever you
7 want, mayor-council or management council. I
8 don't think that's enough (inaudible) time. We
9 owe it, as public officials, to you, the
10 public, to educate you and inform you about
11 both kind of governments that you are voting
12 on. It is not my choice to tell you which
13 government you want to vote on, but it is my
14 right to protect you because you deserve to
15 know the whole truth before you make a
16 decision. 10 weeks out before election is not
17 sufficient time. For those of you just coming,
18 school is back in session (inaudible) parents
19 are busy, not enough time. So, take all my
20 personal beliefs away, it's about the public
21 and what they deserve to know before they cast
22 their votes. 10 weeks out, not enough time to
23 educate the public. So, thank you, Mr. Mayor.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Moe. Other comments?
25 Mr. Newman and Ms. Devine.
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1 MR. NEWMAN: Thank you, Mayor Benjamin. And I guess
2 I'll too make an opening statement and then
3 there will have to be more debate (inaudible).
4 First of all, let me thank everybody for being
5 here and your participation, not only, you
6 know, coming up to the microphone to speak, and
7 those ones that made e-mails and phone calls
8 that I received once it was announced we were
9 going to be having this discussion this
10 evening. I want to go ahead and, of course,
11 agree with some of the comments of my
12 colleague, in particular Mr. Davis and a couple
13 things that he highlighted. And that is that
14 I think I speak for all the Council when I say
15 that we're all up here for service. We're all
16 up here to address all of these issues with a
17 great deal of diligence to make sure that we
18 make decisions that are in the best interest,
19 of not only our districts for single member
20 district representatives, but as well as the
21 entire city. And that's why it's important
22 that we continue to have these sort of debates.
23 Now, with that said, this issue some may seem
24 like it's set up a new issue and there have
25 been comments about, you know, certain members
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1 in Council pushing this on the community, about
2 -- some people a little bit over three ago have
3 called being asked this question. When I was
4 campaigning to join City Council, I remember
5 being asked this question. After 2012 when I
6 was up for reelection, and a number of times in
7 between those dates and even after those dates.
8 And the reason is that, you know, people are
9 inclined to try to figure out ways to make
10 their government better, in particular with
11 they have issues. I understand that level of
12 interest and my response to them has always
13 been that our current form of government can
14 work, it can be extremely efficient, it can be
15 extremely inefficient. And in particular, just
16 like the gentleman, I believe Jaja -- I think
17 I pronounced his name correctly -- as he said,
18 there are times that are going to be extremely
19 inefficient when we don't work together and we
20 bicker over, you know, minor things that aren't
21 constructive. But at the same time, strong
22 mayor system can be one where you've got some
23 sort of tyrant that can cause problems if there
24 aren't the proper checks and balances in place.
25 Strong mayor can also be extremely effective.
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1 And I point out all of these things because
2 really it's -- in my eyes, we can be efficient
3 in both methods. But I'll continue to say that
4 it's not my decision to dictate which form we
5 have. I've always been a fan of continuing to
6 get info like this, which is why this public
7 hearing is so great, and I'll continue to
8 garner this sort of input and I believe this --
9 the pertinent and proven thing to do, to give
10 the community the opportunity to continue to
11 dialogue and give the community an opportunity
12 to vote on this issue. Now, in terms of the
13 amount of time and maybe what some perceive as
14 a short -- or too short an amount of time to
15 learn about the issue, I disagree with that.
16 I believe that we've got -- that we are a
17 competent citizenship here. And in addition to
18 that, I just -- I think it's in line with just
19 the routine election in that we've got our
20 opportunity for those who want to run for
21 office that closes in the beginning of
22 September. This is a similar -- very similar
23 amount of time for folks to learn about
24 candidates that they would to learn about this
25 issue so it's not an extreme short amount of
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1 time here. I saw a difference (ph) stating
2 that. But with that said, you know, I will not
3 vote to silence a group of folks when I believe
4 that there's a commitment here, a concentration
5 or a significant percentage of folks that may
6 be interested in this issue. So with that
7 said, I will be supporting a referendum. I
8 can't say that I'm definitely going to vote in
9 favor of strong mayor but I will say that I'm
10 not going to vote to silence the voices of
11 those that have reached out to me that have
12 interest in a change of government. Thank you,
13 Mr. Mayor.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Brian.
15 (Applause.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Devine?
17 MS. DEVINE: Okay. I do want to thank everyone for
18 coming out cause we knew that this was going to
19 be a long night and (inaudible) a lot. And I
20 regret that there were several people who left
21 or couldn't come in because I do agree that it
22 would have been great for us to hear
23 everybody's word on this, and there were
24 several people who couldn't come and have e-
25 mailed and some people who actually got turned
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1 away at the door were (inaudible) would be in
2 here. And clearly, there are a lot of feelings
3 on both sides. And I agree with Councilor
4 Runyan on that, tonight is not the time to
5 debate whether Columbia should change, you
6 know, that is for a time when people are --
7 have had an opportunity to ask their questions
8 and go to the ballot. Tonight is about whether
9 or not we as a Council should put it on the
10 ballot and when it would be on the ballot. I
11 have to say that I have heard from lots of
12 people in the last week since this was raised,
13 and there's merit to debate on both sides.
14 Some people feel like I know enough about it,
15 I've heard enough about it, I'm ready to vote.
16 Some people who say I don't know enough about
17 it, I would like some education on it. I've
18 shared with those who have contacted me the
19 Municipal Association (inaudible) and
20 (inaudible) questions and they say, well, I'm
21 not ready to vote on it. There's some people
22 who we heard here tonight know enough about it,
23 don't want to change, and they don't want to go
24 about it for that reason. But there's a
25 variety of opinions out there. What I do think
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1 that we as a Council in asking or voting for it
2 to be on the ballot or saying okay, we're
3 ready, this (inaudible). And you know, I
4 struggle with it because I've heard the
5 conflict in view tonight and over the last week
6 on it. And it -- ironically enough, over the
7 last week, I tried not to share my opinions
8 with people on the form of government because
9 I thought it was premature to really make that
10 debate and just talk about whether or not
11 people feel like they're ready to vote. But I
12 do think that putting it on a November ballot
13 is soon. It's ironic to me that every time
14 this comes up, we talk about needing education
15 and needing to do this process and then there
16 -- for some reason, one time we did vote on it,
17 one time we didn't vote on it but it got pushed
18 to the side and there was no education about
19 it. Just because it's on the ballot doesn't
20 mean that's the only time we need to have it --
21 we could have education about it. We could say
22 tonight that we want to engage in an education
23 process over the next several months and, you
24 know, and then we can -- we can put it on the
25 ballot anytime. I mean, we have a general
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1 election in our state next November. So, you
2 know, people who are saying well, vote, you
3 know, and put it into effect in 2018, we can
4 still do that and vote next year and have
5 adequate opportunity for people to be educated
6 about what they're voting on. You know, I
7 think that there's a lot of discussion about,
8 you know, what brought us to this discussion,
9 you know, why are we here. And certainly,
10 everybody has a right to, you know, put it out
11 on the resolution and put it out there, but we
12 do know that there was a significant campaign
13 to bring this issue there -- here. And we know
14 that that significant campaign doesn't stop
15 once it's on the ballot. And so, you know, I
16 feel like they are -- everybody can have a
17 right to push what they want, but pushing what
18 they want also confuses the already muddy issue
19 of what the different forms of government are.
20 And I think there needs to be a very open and
21 honest discussion, there needs to be a lot of
22 questions answered and I think that it's
23 available to -- some folks I talked to last
24 night, if you do the national research on
25 strong mayors, some strong mayors in other
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1 states have veto power. And the people were do
2 their own research and asked me about that.
3 Our state doesn't have that but, you know,
4 until you've asked those questions, you don't
5 know that. So, you know, I do believe that we
6 need to have a significant education process
7 and I do believe that if the citizens want this
8 -- and I know there are a lot of people in here
9 who want it -- that the law allows for them to
10 petition us to put it on the ballot and for
11 that to happen. And, you know, I actually
12 don't take any exception to what Mr. Bussell
13 (ph) said. You know, if the people -- if the
14 people want it then I think a petition can be
15 presented to City Council saying we want it,
16 and it will be on the ballot to vote. And that
17 everybody's right. But right now, I don't feel
18 like this was significantly driven by the
19 citizens saying they want it. I think that
20 certain people raised it and made it an issue
21 to campaign for and, you know, I respect the
22 people's vote tonight who want to vote and I do
23 think that there will be an opportunity to vote
24 on it. But me personally tonight, I just don't
25 feel like we need vote to put on a ballot in
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1 November, it's a bad thing to do at this time.
2 But I certainly suggest (inaudible) can talk
3 about that regardless of the way the vote goes
4 tonight. If it doesn't -- it's not going to go
5 on -- put on the ballot tonight, I still would
6 suggest that we engage the community and
7 (inaudible) to make sure impartial, objective
8 information is presented about the forms that
9 may be voted on at any time.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Ms. Plaugh?
11 MS. PLAUGH: I feel like I should first say ditto to
12 Councilman Davis and Ms. Devine and where they
13 stand, but I (inaudible). There are things
14 that I really want to share and first is,
15 again, thank everyone who came whether it was
16 a campaign to get you here or not, you still
17 came and I appreciate that because you put time
18 away from whatever else you would be doing
19 today to be here to join in this democratic
20 process and I thank you for that. I also --
21 the mayor's right, I did send an e-mail out to
22 -- literally (ph) my e-mail list to -- in
23 District IV and I did have a fair number of
24 responses to that and I thank them for sharing
25 their thoughts. I also urged them to come
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1 today and some of them have spoken as part of
2 this meeting. I also took the opportunity on
3 Monday evening to meet with 30 of my
4 neighborhood leaders from all across District
5 IV. And I truly appreciate their
6 thoughtfulness (ph) and their conversation
7 about how this matter is coming before us and
8 how we should deal with it. I've been city
9 manager, I have sat in the chair that Ms.
10 Teresa Wilson sits in and I know what a very
11 difficult job she has. When you easily say,
12 you know, that it looks like it's simple but
13 when you have to make sure the toilet flushes
14 and the water runs and the trash gets picked up
15 and the police are where they need to be and
16 public works is -- the patching holes in the
17 street, it truly is more than a full-time job.
18 And she is fortunate to be surrounded with very
19 competent staff that make her look like it's an
20 easy job which it still is not. The reason I
21 bring that up is what concerns me, and this is
22 not pointed at anyone, I want to make sure --
23 the mayor and I bounce back forth over topics
24 that, you know, that's the whole democratic
25 process, it's debating the issues and hopefully
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1 we're better for them. But under the strong
2 mayor or mayor -- council-mayor form of
3 government, what concerns me the most is the
4 hiring and firing of the staff. We've built a
5 great staff but let me divert just a minute to
6 tell you that I had the opportunity in (ph) two
7 years, going back and forth from the City to
8 Columbia to the City of Cleveland, Ohio. Two
9 years working with Mayor Voinovich (inaudible)
10 but anyway, the strong mayor form government,
11 17 members of the city council, the mayor in
12 that set up with (ph) his staff to attend
13 council meetings. He rarely came to the
14 council meetings. But their structure is a
15 little bit different. But the concern that I
16 want to share with you is that I saw
17 departments politicized, I saw what potentially
18 can happen when the public works director works
19 directly for the mayor. They may or may not
20 have the field set -- and again, I'm not
21 reflecting on what our mayor might do in this
22 situation, but we need to look at what happens
23 in a strong mayor form of government and by
24 them making the hiring and firing decisions,
25 they then control everyone. And, you know, the
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1 beauty of the situation that we have now is we
2 have a professional manager who is making those
3 hiring decisions based on what is in the best
4 interest of the city as opposed to some mayor
5 who will be making those decisions in the best
6 interest of the city but also monitoring and
7 thinking through the political process. That's
8 the nature of the beast, I mean, you put the
9 CEO and the CFO and the chairman of the board,
10 all rolled up into one person because then they
11 have to look out for the policies, for the day-
12 to-day operations, for everything. It is a
13 huge job even if they have the benefit of
14 seasons or experience, administrator, is still
15 a huge job. With that said, I want to share
16 with you that 80 percent of my e-mails
17 indicated they did not want this matter on the
18 ballot. I also had the opportunity to meet,
19 like my colleague did, going out and talking to
20 people in District IV. That's not what I hear
21 from District IV about most important thing is
22 the change in government. I have to say that
23 I hear about streets and potholes and crime and
24 break-ins, and dogs and cats, and everything
25 else. Oh, parks, I hear about parks too. But
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1 also, I wanted to share the conversation that
2 I had with my 30 neighborhood leaders. The
3 first question -- and leading the (inaudible),
4 we had the city attorney there to outline what
5 strong mayor form of government is under state
6 law and what a city manager form of government
7 is under the state law. The first question
8 asked of my representatives there were why are
9 we discussing this. They asked me why are we
10 discussing this. This really wanted to discuss
11 something else. They wanted to discuss
12 (inaudible) and services. So the question was
13 why. And then the second question was, what
14 makes it that you had to have an urgent meeting
15 of us to discuss this, why is it such an urgent
16 matter? This is a major issue, a change in
17 form of government is something we all take
18 very seriously. We should not act urgently
19 about a change in form of government. The
20 outcome of that is that they overwhelming felt
21 that this matter should not be put on the
22 ballot in November. Now, let's talk about
23 should this matter go forward and be placed on
24 the agenda -- on th ballot? What's not being
25 talked about is that the voters will go to the
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1 poll and vote for a mayor not knowing whether
2 that mayor is indeed going to be a strong mayor
3 or not. So to me, you've got two issues that
4 need to be separated. You need to first go
5 through what is the normal election for our
6 mayor and then if we're going to have a
7 conversation, if we're going to vote to change
8 the form of government, we need to at least
9 either vote at a different time or have it
10 implemented at a different time. My
11 preference, if we had to go down that path, is
12 to have the vote at a different time so we know
13 we are voting on a strong mayor to run a strong
14 mayor form of government. I think several
15 people have mentioned we could achieve that if
16 that was what everyone wanted to do if we did
17 this in 2018. I mean, the implementation in
18 2018, the vote in November of '17. So I know
19 that seems like a very long way off but the
20 reality is, it's important that you as citizens
21 know who you're electing for what role and, you
22 know, I just don't see how you can know given
23 the process we're going through right now, the
24 timing involved.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Plaugh. And before
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1 I go any (inaudible) folks a good time speak,
2 and I also did have a letter from Mr. Henry
3 Hopkins of the Eau Claire Community Council and
4 if I don't read his letter, I'm not sure I'll
5 be allowed back in Eau Claire so I promised him
6 I would read it. But as I read it, there's
7 another -- Mr. Tomlin and Mr. Strom decided to
8 speak and if you'll have them come forward and
9 they have their three minutes, feel free to do
10 so. I want to read ---
11 MS. DEVINE: I'm sorry, I had an e-mail that I had
12 said I was (inaudible).
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
14 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Okay.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. But Mayor Benjamin,
16 members of City Council, residents of the City
17 of Columbia, regarding our form of government
18 -- strong mayor form of government. I regret
19 I am unable to attend this evening's meeting of
20 City Council to participate in this landmark
21 discussion, a decision that would surely have
22 a dramatic effect on the future of Columbia.
23 However, on behalf of the Eau Claire Community
24 Council and its governing board, we remain
25 reluctant to support a ballot initiative that
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1 would bring a strong mayor form of government
2 to the City of Columbia. Over the years,
3 residents of the communities of North Columbia
4 have waged hard-fought battles that took us
5 from the so-called Shandon Mafia to the 6-2-1
6 before finally settling on our current 4-2-1
7 which ensures minority communities like ours a
8 seat at the table. Though the Council strongly
9 supports the leadership of our mayor, Stephen
10 Benjamin, and the vision he has for our city
11 and our future, we are steadfast in our support
12 of grassroots democracy that's led from the
13 bottom up rather than the top down. That's
14 (inaudible) I read that into the record so he
15 won't get (ph) me. Mr. Tomlin, how are you?
16 MR. TOMLIN: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council, persons.
17 I wanted to speak out. One thing that Ms.
18 Plaugh had said, we have a know quantity in our
19 mayor today. We know the mayor, we're either
20 going to elect him or we're not going to elect
21 him, but we know him, we know how he behaves
22 and his pattern of conduct has been stable and
23 specific. That's a real simple reason to have
24 the ballot -- the strong mayor on the ballot
25 and let people vote. It's a perfect time to do
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1 it. It doesn't need to be in 2018. It needs
2 to be now, and I would believe that -- it is
3 hard for me to believe that given the
4 information that you all have been given about
5 polling that clearly shows that folks want to
6 vote on this, it is extremely hard for me to
7 understand why anyone would not vote tonight to
8 let our citizens vote and exercise their
9 democratic right. To have to go through
10 expensive communications soliciting petitions
11 of 15,000 people is a waste of everyone's time.
12 With one fell swoop, you can put it on the
13 ballot tonight. There's just no reason to have
14 folks have to go through that to allow our
15 citizens to vote on the strong mayor form of
16 government. I would urge you to reconsider.
17 Think about it, why would you want to put
18 somebody through that. Clearly, polling has
19 shown that folks want to vote on this. That's
20 -- that needs to be put on the ballot and save
21 the agony of going through a petition drive.
22 Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. Tomlin.
24 (Applause.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Strom?
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1 MS. PLAUGH: Can I (inaudible).
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Can you -- please ---
3 MS. PLAUGH: It's just a comment. I just wanted to
4 make sure that public knows I have not seen any
5 polling, that I am not privileged to that --
6 any of those polls.
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I don't (inaudible) ---
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: No polls.
10 UNKNOWN MALE: No polls.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Mr. Strom?
12 MR. STROM: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, members of
13 Council, thank you. I'll be very brief. I
14 join what Mr. Tomlin said. I think that
15 clearly we need to move to a strong mayor form
16 of government. You know, as I look around this
17 country, we've found that now Congress is
18 completely dysfunctional. Single member
19 districts are not working like they should.
20 The same thing is happening at the State House
21 and now, you know, unfortunately, we see
22 squabbles on City Council. You guys don't get
23 along like you did when Kirkland was here but
24 ...
25 (Laughter.)
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1 MR. STROM: Yet -- but seriously, we've got a great
2 city and we need to move it forward, and this
3 bickering is not working. We need one person
4 we can hold accountable that we can vote for
5 and vote out. And I can't tell you how
6 strongly I feel about this and everyone I've
7 talked to feels about it. And I'd ask all of
8 you to reconsider as well for (ph) another
9 direction. Thank you.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. Strom.
11 (Applause.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You wanted me to read -- you wanted
13 to read something ---
14 MS. DEVINE: Well I just wanted -- an e-mail, and I
15 don't know how many people got it, but an e-
16 mail I got that someone had another concern
17 about a November election and that this would
18 be the first election with voter I.D., and
19 their question was how do we ensure that
20 there's not a disenfranchisement of voters. So
21 I did want to raise that issue, that is
22 (inaudible) and I said I would read it so ...
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. Mr. Runyan?
24 MR. RUNYAN: I want thank every -- (inaudible) yours
25 is -- mine is too (ph). I want to thank
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1 everybody again for staying so long tonight,
2 and I want to thank my colleagues for
3 entertaining this issue this evening and this
4 and despite the perception among some of you,
5 it has been a very respectful (inaudible) in
6 (inaudible) what a -- amongst us up here.
7 There are very diverging in opinions on this
8 particular topic, but it has been respectful.
9 And despite our diverging opinions on many
10 different things, we generally do get along
11 very well. Just like Mr. Baddourah, I ran on
12 this issue. This was one of my campaign
13 platforms that people elected me on. And for
14 that reason, and others that I'm going to get
15 into, I have an ethical and a morale obligation
16 to the voters of this city to do what I said I
17 would do when I ran for office and to put this
18 to the voters of this city so that they can
19 decide, that they can exercise their right of
20 self determination as to what their form of
21 government will be. We've had quite a bit of
22 time, at least in the years that I've been in
23 Columbia, at least a decade plus that I could
24 document, that we've had debates about this
25 issue. It's been debated back and forth and
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1 back and forth and back and forth. My hope and
2 my prayer is this evening is that we can move
3 beyond the debate of whether or not to allow
4 the people to have their voices heard and to
5 resolve -- to allow you to have your voices
6 heard on this issue. We've got time over the
7 next three months to debate the merits of one
8 form of government over the other, but the time
9 is now, in my opinion, to put this to you, it's
10 your right. Under our form government, it is
11 your right to decide how you will be
12 represented. I think the people understand
13 this issue, I think you all agree with the
14 (inaudible). You elected me up here, some of
15 you are probably even thinking that today ---
16 (Laughter.)
17 MR. RUNYAN: --- but you did put me up here. I want
18 to share with you a few quotes that I think are
19 important. I shared with you one at the
20 outset. If somebody wasn't here, I'll read it
21 again, but these are some of the rocks that I
22 would say I place my feet on for this
23 particular issue in relation to American
24 history. The first one I want to share with
25 you is governments are instituted among men,
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1 deriving their just powers from the consent of
2 the governed. It is the right of the people to
3 alter or to abolish it, and to institute new
4 government, laying its foundation on such
5 principles and organizing its powers in such
6 form, as to them shall seem most likely to
7 affect their safety and happiness. That is the
8 United States Declaration of Independence
9 that's stating this nation's right to self
10 determination at that point (inaudible) true.
11 The Constitution of the State of South
12 Carolina, Article I, Section 1. It's the very
13 first thing our state constitution says. All
14 political power is vested in and derived from
15 the people only, therefore, they have the right
16 at all times to modify their form of
17 government. President Abraham Lincoln in the
18 Gettysburg Address said government of the
19 people ---
20 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Adele (ph) ---
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- like to call 911?
23 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- such as we can do this promptly
25 if we choose to. I think -- the percentage of
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1 it is fairly (inaudible). I'd say to Council,
2 we should hold all (inaudible) and community
3 reports, I (inaudible) anything else
4 (inaudible) quickly the first reading ---
5 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) are all of the (inaudible)
6 levels in there ---(inaudible)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- Yeah, if I could be so bold
8 then one fell swoop, one fell swoop ---
9 MS. WILSON: Yeah (inaudible).
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We can -- we can get through the
11 (inaudible) appointments tonight, we'll get --
12 yeah ---
13 MS. PLAUGH: Well, I was just going to say during
14 the break, there were a few people who
15 mentioned -- and I know a lot of people stayed
16 for this, but there were a lot of people who
17 had to leave who were be -- coming to talk
18 about our homeless. So I don't know if it's --
19 (inaudible) committee to meet -- it's Dawn
20 (ph), right?
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Your Honor, yes, it is.
22 MS. PLAUGH: Okay.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.) I want to help this
24 (inaudible) ---
25 MS. PLAUGH: Okay.
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Well, there's more of a public
2 interest. We feel the public has a right ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. So ---
4 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- and there (inaudible) ---
5 MS. DEVINE: And it's (inaudible). But we can
6 actually also put it on another agenda ---
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah.
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- to get public input. I know --
9 but I think that ---
10 UNKNOWN MALE: But you all are here. At least ---
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- people who are here so ---
12 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I think we still should ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Someone -- I forget what Mr.
15 Olulenu said, but someone else told me he
16 missed date night with his wife tonight. So we
17 need to talk about homelessness. The -- you
18 had something to add, Ms. Plaugh?
19 MS. PLAUGH: Yeah, I just to ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
21 MS. PLAUGH: --- clarification. Through the break,
22 someone (inaudible) me for the parliamentarian
23 that I am, that we had that -- a motion and I
24 did a substitute motion, the one that's
25 actually on the floor.
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: He withdrew his motion.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: He with ---
3 MS. PLAUGH: He withdrew it and ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Then withdraw your substitute one
5 (ph).
6 MS. PLAUGH: So in -- is the proper protocol that I
7 need to withdraw -- I mean, I guess I'm trying
8 to clean it up ---
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you.
10 MS. PLAUGH: --- somebody had mentioned it to me.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So you withdraw substitution motion
12 ---
13 MS. PLAUGH: I would.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay, all right ---
15 MS. PLAUGH: Okay.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- Ms. Plaugh. And then they say
17 Adele is fine for those of you who didn't have
18 a chance to dialog with her. She -- her son
19 Ben is meeting her. Right now, she's getting
20 some medical attention outside. We talked
21 about some of those issues earlier today and
22 she's in good spirits and Ben's on his way
23 right now to see to his mom. I'm not sure, I
24 think we were -- I think Mr. Runyan, were you
25 speaking?
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1 MR. RUNYAN: I think I'll just quit now.
2 (Laughter.)
3 MR. RUNYAN: Thank you.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Fair enough. And some of you who
5 don't know Adele Adams, Ms. Adams has been a
6 fighter for a long time. She may appear to be
7 infirmed right now. That is one tough lady,
8 one tough lady who ---
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Yep.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- who walks the walk and talks
11 the talk, and she's a fighter for folks for the
12 better part of half of a century. So we want
13 -- she's gonna -- she's gonna be just fine,
14 just fine. I'm going to wrap this discussion
15 up but with a few comments and certainly every
16 one of my colleagues has the authority, has the
17 responsibility to make decisions. I've been an
18 advocate of the mayor-council strong mayor form
19 of government since I was student in Charlie
20 Tyre (ph) class at the University of South
21 Carolina -- a fan of Dr. Tyre -- 23 years ago.
22 I supported the form of government since then,
23 continue to support it now. I'm a student of
24 political science, I'm a student of public
25 administration. Following the advice of family
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1 and friends and others like Dr. Gerber, I carry
2 a book with me almost everywhere I go, and some
3 of you may have seen Bruce Katz's book on The
4 Metropolitan Revolution. Talking about
5 exciting things that are happening in cities
6 all around the country right now. This book is
7 -- it's a new book, profiles the -- some of the
8 exciting things that -- it highlights the fact
9 that not only is 90 percent of America's gross
10 domestic product being created in cities and
11 metropolitan economy, but really the only place
12 things are happening right now. We're not
13 seeing any movement in Washington, D.C., and
14 many of our state governments dialogue is
15 broken. We're seeing cities (inaudible). This
16 book profiles New York City, Denver, Houston
17 and the cities in northeastern Ohio -- Akron,
18 Cleveland, Canton, Youngstown. Talks about how
19 cities and metros are fixing our broken
20 politics and our fragile economy. Bruce Katz,
21 I sat down with him a couple of -- late June.
22 He wanted to visit Columbia. He's excited
23 about the things that are happening here and
24 the way in which the city is leading this
25 metropolitan area and how we're influenced by
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1 innovative citizens (inaudible) and the way
2 that it all works together. I do believe that
3 we can engage in a very active and aggressive
4 education process for our citizens. I also
5 believe that the citizens of Columbia are
6 pretty doggone smart and have the ability to
7 grasp issues that are really not complex
8 issues. They're not complex issues, they're
9 issues that can be asked and answered in a very
10 short period of time. Whenever this issue has
11 come up over the years, the answer's always
12 been -- I believe we had public education
13 sessions in 2010. And we (inaudible) -- oh --
14 or I'm sorry.
15 UNKNOWN FEMALE: We did (inaudible.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: When we -- we discussed it every
17 couple of years. Business (inaudible) in most
18 South Carolina cities. I further believe that
19 the people of Columbia deserve a mayor who is
20 full time, who wakes up in the morning thinking
21 about how he can devote his full day, or her
22 full day, to changing Columbia, improving
23 Columbia, and going to bed at night thinking
24 about all the people he's talked to about how
25 he can change the city and move the city
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1 forward. Or she can wake up the next day and
2 start getting things done. How many of you
3 know, because I want to give you just a very
4 simple hypothetical and you can choose to raise
5 your hands. They teach you in law school never
6 to ask a question unless you know the answer,
7 but I'll do it anyway. How many -- I get --
8 I've gotten calls from many of you over time,
9 did the -- as little as a pothole or I was over
10 on Easter Street today looking at a ditch in a
11 backyard that overflowed (inaudible) the house
12 as well, that overflows a whole lot, the heavy
13 rains over the last two months. How many of
14 you when you call your mayor (ph), or if you
15 call (inaudible) Council and say I need this
16 pothole fixed, that I can't call the director
17 of roads condition and say -- or call the folks
18 and say we need to get this pothole fixed. How
19 many of you know that that is illegal? Any?
20 How many of you know what the penalty on our
21 form (ph) of government for any one of us
22 directing city staff to do anything? If it is
23 to cut a lawn on public property or to do
24 anything that would seem to be logical for you
25 to be able to call your elected representatives
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1 and get done. It is illegal and Mr. Gaines,
2 you still in the room somewhere?
3 UNKNOWN VOICE: Yes, he's back here.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What is the penalty for an elected
5 official directing staff?
6 MR. GAINES: (Inaudible) I'm not sure ---
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
8 MR. GAINES: (Inaudible.)
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's a crime.
10 MR. GAINES: (Inaudible) ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And the penalty is potentially
12 what?
13 MR. GAINES: (Inaudible) ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's removal from office.
15 MR. GAINES: (Inaudible.)
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's -- no, no, no?
17 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And step out, step out, step out.
19 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. Well, no, but -- well, no.
21 And Howard, you can shake your head, no, it
22 actually is.
23 MR. DUVALL: (Inaudible.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now, Howard, I'm telling you that
25 -- I know you're the past, that is from the
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1 past (inaudible) ---
2 (Laughter.)
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But that is -- that is a penalty
4 and you can -- you can be pulled off -- and
5 pull up the Attorney General's opinions that
6 speak to that issue. Your elected officials --
7 -
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- act in getting things done that
10 you want to get -- some of the minor things
11 that you think need to be done every single
12 day. Now, mind you, yes, I -- we can engage
13 the city manager and yeah, the city manager,
14 who can -- and we had a good one before her.
15 And we've had a string of good city managers
16 who can go and get things done. But if you
17 believe that this is the most accountable form
18 of government, where the people that you
19 directly elect ought to be able to (inaudible)
20 then I suggest that that is not the case. Ken,
21 (inaudible) speak, and I'm going to not wait --
22 -
23 MS. DEVINE: I disagree and I ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
25 MS. DEVINE: --- if I may, Mr. Mayor, and Ms. Donald
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1 -- I don't know if she's here any more, but she
2 was earlier -- she was here earlier. She had
3 overgrown behind her mom's house. She called
4 me, I called the city manager and ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's what you ---
6 MS. DEVINE: --- and staff went out there and had it
7 (inaudible). Let me finish. I let you finish
8 ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
10 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
11 MS. DEVINE: --- Now, I let you finish, and I said
12 may I? And you said yeah so ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay ---
14 MS. DEVINE: --- I was still talking.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Go ahead and finish.
16 MS. DEVINE: Okay. So, let me -- everybody's
17 talking about us bickering. We didn't used to
18 have this. You know, we didn't have this ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Who (inaudible) have this?
20 MS. DEVINE: We did not have this. Even with
21 Kirkland, we did not have people ---
22 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
24 MS. DEVINE: Okay.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, we've got ---
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1 MS. DEVINE: But anyway ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Whatever (ph).
3 MS. DEVINE: --- my point is that the scenario that
4 (inaudible) works. I mean, I think that you
5 would find in any set of (inaudible) that they
6 call their council people and the council
7 person calls the city manager and stuff gets
8 done. Part of that is -- and again, I felt
9 like this is about three form of governments.
10 I don't -- I'm not here advocating for one or
11 another. But to be fair, since that's what
12 you're saying, you know, that same scenario
13 happens in a mayor-council form of government.
14 If someone called me as a council member and
15 they have an issue, I still can't call staff
16 but now, I no longer have a city manager that
17 I can call but I'm calling you ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But you know ---
19 MS. DEVINE: --- and if -- let me finish, let me
20 finish ---
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm sorry. Okay.
22 MS. DEVINE: Okay. But -- so I'm calling you and
23 I'm then relying upon you and your staff to get
24 something done that my constituents have called
25 me about. And so, I think that that is a fair
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1 way to say -- you know, and people have
2 different preferences and they can have that,
3 but it's disingenuous to say that, you know,
4 none of us can get stuff done because we don't
5 have that form of government.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think that ---
7 MS. DEVINE: I think there are a lot less -- Mr.
8 Mayor ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.) Too many people --
10 with all due respect, you spoke ---
11 MS. DEVINE: Well, please, please ---
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- Brian spoke, Cameron spoke ---
13 MS. DEVINE: --- please ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let me finish speaking and then ---
15 MS. DEVINE: Okay.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and then you can ---
17 MS. DEVINE: Oh -- but then I asked if you ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
19 MS. DEVINE: --- were finished with your comment ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
21 MS. DEVINE: --- I asked and you said I could speak,
22 so ...
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right keep on talking, keep on
24 talking ---
25 MS. DEVINE: So all I'm saying is the scenario that
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1 you gave, is just really disingenuous to make
2 people think that we can't get stuff done now
3 because that's really not an accurate
4 statement. Yes there may be certain things
5 that changed, but that's not really an accurate
6 statement. And I just felt for clarity ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Just ---
8 MS. DEVINE: --- and if that's not what you said,
9 please clarify your statement regarding not
10 being in South Carolina because we could go to
11 jail because we direct staff. But, you know,
12 that was not the way it -- that I understood --
13 -
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Can we direct staff in this form of
15 government?
16 MS. DEVINE: And I'm not going to ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Can we direct staff? Tameika, you
18 ---
19 MS. DEVINE: No we cannot, we are not ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) that's mayor
21 (inaudible) ---
22 MS. DEVINE: No, but, you know, the -- but the ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.) ---
24 MS. DEVINE: --- what you said, it wasn't about
25 directing ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
2 MS. DEVINE: --- what you just said was that people
3 couldn't get things done and what I'm saying is
4 the scenario that you gave is really not
5 accurate but ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The -- but -- I'm sorry. You done
7 there?
8 MS. DEVINE: No, but that's okay. Mr. Mayor can
9 have the floor back.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Tameika and my wife are law school
11 class mates and heck of a -- of debaters as
12 well.
13 MS. DEVINE: (Inaudible.)
14 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The issue before us is not whether
16 or not any of the three forms of government
17 work, it's rather or not it's the most
18 effective, the most efficient and the most
19 accountable. The reality is that if you call
20 the mayor of this city, if you call any Council
21 person of this city, you should be able to get
22 things done and get it done in a rapid period
23 of time. And I -- and I can speak to some very
24 clear specifics of things that I have asked
25 for, that many of you has asked for, that take
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1 long periods of time -- not just cause of this
2 administration, under the former city manager
3 and the one before that, things that take a
4 long time because the person that you're led
5 directly ought to be able to get those things
6 done and ought to be held accountable if they
7 are not getting done. Do you have an answer?
8 MR. GAINES: Yes. I knew it was somewhere. Okay.
9 Under the council ---
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
11 MR. GAINES: All right, excuse me. I'm sorry.
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Thank you.
13 MR. GAINES: Under the council-manager form of
14 government, the mayor and council members are
15 forbidden by law from dealing with employees or
16 interfering with the operation of municipal
17 departments, offices or agencies under the
18 manager's direction. And that's Chapter 5 --
19 Section 5-13-40, and that would be Chapter 13.
20 And Section 5-7-200 provides that a mayor or
21 council member shall forfeit his office if he
22 loses any qualifications for the office at any
23 time during his term, violates any expressed
24 prohibition of Chapters 1 through 17 of Title
25 5 of South Carolina Code of Laws, and that was
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1 Chapter 13.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is that fairly clear?
3 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I mean, I say -- I'd say it's
5 crystal clear, but let me -- let me -- but I
6 appreciate that conversation, Ken. We all did.
7 MR. GAINES: Yes, sir.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And the penalty is forfeit of
9 public office, I do know that. So -- but I'll
10 move forward with my comments. We will have
11 opportunities to debate form of government, as
12 you guys can tell, the feelings are very
13 passionate -- not just in this room, but
14 certainly amongst the seven of us here that you
15 elect to represent you, that you will continue
16 to elect to represent you, whose authority,
17 with the exception of the mayor, does not
18 change under change of the form of government.
19 4-2-1 is not affected by change in the form of
20 government, but I agree that tonight's debate
21 is not about our city's form of government.
22 It's not about a strong mayor or a weak mayor.
23 It's -- and despite what some people may think,
24 it's not about the mayoral election. It's not
25 about me. It's not about any member of
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1 Council. It's not about the city manager or
2 the assistant city managers or Columbia staff.
3 It's about this people of this city. It's
4 about the people of Columbia. It was shortly
5 after midnight, and I -- and I read and I
6 researched this, as I know many of you do on a
7 regular basis. Shortly after midnight on this
8 day, 52 years ago, August 13th, 1961, when East
9 German soldiers began laying down the barbed
10 wire and the bricks that would become the
11 Berlin war, today, 52 years ago. And for
12 another 30 years that wall stood as a symbol
13 across the world, some -- (inaudible) some
14 people would go to quell the fear they had of
15 their own people. I think that -- I think it's
16 a fear of freedom itself, freedom to vote.
17 Here in Columbia, we have debated the strong
18 mayor for the better part of two decades. And
19 every time the issue is raised, the question is
20 raised, this council and the ones that came
21 before this council had refused to let the
22 voters decide, saying it's a firm and an
23 obstinate wall between the people and their
24 God-given right to vote. I feel strongly about
25 that. I speak tonight not because I believe
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1 that strong mayor form of government is more
2 accountable, more decisive and absolutely
3 necessary for this city to become the most
4 talented, educated entrepreneurial city in
5 America -- although I do certainly believe
6 that. We're speaking tonight because I think
7 it's time for the wall to come down. It's time
8 to let the people decide. It's time to let the
9 people vote. President Truman said it's not
10 the hand that signs the laws which holds the
11 destiny of America. It's the hand that casts
12 the ballot. I know it can be difficult for
13 some of us to digest the issue. It will be
14 hard. Sometimes it'll let you go. And I
15 imagine that for some people, simply stepping
16 aside and letting you, letting the people make
17 the decision for change can be asking a little
18 bit too much. I've heard some argue, saying
19 the people of the city don't understand the
20 issue, that you're not engaged enough, that we
21 can't be educated and in this period of time
22 that you might make the wrong choice. But I
23 disagree. I believe that this is, as President
24 Lincoln said, that the elections belong to the
25 people. I believe in the people and their
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1 ability to make sound decisions in this period
2 of time. Every single one of us up here is
3 elected by the people, so we shouldn't fear the
4 people and their decision making process.
5 Democracy isn't easy. Democracy is advanced
6 citizenship. It requires courage, it requires
7 commitment and most importantly it requires
8 faith -- faith that -- not just in God and
9 divine providence, but also faith in the people
10 of the city. I believe in the people of the
11 city. I believe the people in the city can
12 make an informed educated decision as to what
13 form of government they want to see before
14 them. I believe it's time that we stood up for
15 your right to vote in this issue and I'm
16 prepared to support that tonight, so thank you.
17 MR. RUNYAN: Mr. Mayor.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Runyan.
19 MR. RUNYAN: I move that we will make a motion to
20 adopt Ordinance Number 2013-086 placing a
21 referendum on the question that came to the
22 form of municipal government from council-
23 manager to mayor-council on this November 5th
24 election ballot.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is there a second?
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1 MR. NEWMAN: Second.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Discussion is final.
3 MS. DEVINE: On that motion, I didn't hear included
4 a blank on the implementation date, so do you
5 want to clarify the motion, or I can ...
6 MR. RUNYAN: I'm sorry.
7 MS. PLAUGH: Is the ---
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: If you can ---?
9 MS. PLAUGH: --- implementation date and I'm voided
10 so do you want to insert an implementation
11 date?
12 MR. RUNYAN: I believe it would take effect when the
13 new Council is sworn in. Is that what we had
14 from ---
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
16 MR. RUNYAN: --- from legal counsel?
17 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
19 UNKNOWN MALE: But that needs to be inserted into
20 the election (inaudible).
21 MR. RUNYAN: Can we do that between first and second
22 reading?
23 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes sir.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right, it's set. Discussion is
25 final --
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1 MS. PLAUGH: I would like to add a substitute motion
2 that the effective date be November, I'm sorry,
3 it'd be December of two thousand -- January of
4 2018.
5 MR. BADDOURAH: Second.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now, what's the procedure?
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Gaines, is it the primary
8 motion (inaudible) secondary motion.
9 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
10 UNKNOWN MALE: Secondary motion.
11 UNKNOWN MALE: The secondary motion is first and
12 then if it fails, you can vote on the main
13 motion unless another substitute motion is
14 made.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. On discussion of the
16 motion, Ms. Plaugh?
17 MS. PLAUGH: I'd like to make another substitute
18 motion.
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Okay.
20 MS. PLAUGH: I would like to move that we do not
21 consider a vote for the November ballot at all.
22 MS. DEVINE: Second for discussion. Well, I --
23 well, the discussion is then, we don't want it
24 to be on the ballot (inaudible) so I don't know
25 if that motion is necessary. But the other
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1 thing I would add that if we are going to vote,
2 the second motion, I would add ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Tameika, I'm sorry. Discussion got
4 a third, a fourth and a fifth?
5 MS. DEVINE: No, (inaudible) -- no, I do have others
6 but I'll stop a second. Oh, but (inaudible) I
7 would have if you would accept to throw in an
8 amendment to your motion to not have it on the
9 November ballot. However, work with -- that
10 staff would work with the League of Women
11 Voters for an education project, or other such
12 agencies, to have a (sic) education process
13 monthly until such time that we no longer need
14 it. That's probably vague but ...
15 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible.)
16 MS. DEVINE: But I guess until what ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let her (inaudible).
18 MS. DEVINE: My ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What, long as it's no longer
20 needed, what does that mean?
21 MS. DEVINE: Well, as I said, that's probably vague.
22 Because I guess the question would be when it
23 would be on ballot. It could be on ballot --
24 it could get attention where it could be a
25 special election, it could be on the ballot
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1 next November on the 14th. So -- but my motion
2 would -- I guess my amendment to your motion,
3 if there is no vote to put it on the current
4 ballot instead of waiting 'til -- if the
5 discussion comes up again, go ahead and engage
6 in the education process immediately so that
7 the discussion can continue among the citizens
8 anticipating that a vote would eventually come
9 up.
10 MS. PLAUGH: I will accept that as a (inaudible).
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I restate that motion for the
12 betterment of everybody else here.
13 MS. PLAUGH: Well, my motion says we will not vote
14 November of this year, will not put it on the
15 ballot, the change of government. And I think
16 the friendly amendment says we would begin an
17 education process that we can have public
18 dialogue about when we might want to consider
19 this.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Runyan?
21 MR. RUNYAN: Can we add a second substitute motion
22 to that ---
23 UNKNOWN MALE: We got -- we got a -- you can have as
24 many as you want.
25 MR. RUNYAN: I think we'll be (inaudible)
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: No, no, no ---
2 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Roberts already said you can have
4 as many substitute motions as you want on that
5 (inaudible).
6 UNKNOWN MALE: And you just corner, please press.
7 MR. RUNYAN: It might be easier, cleaner to vote ---
8 MR. DAVIS: Deal with them as they come rather than
9 let them stack.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Any other substitute motions? All
11 right. So in essence your motion was to not
12 put it on the ballot and the primary amendment
13 was to engage in education sessions until we --
14 until we feel comfortable that we're going to
15 have an educated populous (ph) to ---
16 MS. DEVINE: Well, not (inaudible). Immediately
17 engage in the education process and dialogue
18 with the citizens And then at that time, you
19 know, there are lots of other factors that may
20 happen where it could be on the ballot but
21 during that, I think Ms. Plaugh said it more
22 eloquently than I can, but she said at that
23 point when the community has expressed -- or
24 set the time for it (inaudible).
25 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We just gotta figure out how to
2 wrap this session up much quicker than sit here
3 all night having substitute motions.
4 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Just so -- just so you're clear, we
6 were looking at some internal Robert's Rules of
7 Order. Is -- the question as to whether or not
8 the motion can be amended with a substitute
9 motion that's not accepted by the original
10 maker of the motion. And if, in fact, it can
11 be, if that takes priority or not. And that's
12 been -- in going -- researching back here right
13 now. I think Ken, the school board is a
14 certified parliamentarian. When did you get
15 off?
16 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
17 UNKNOWN FEMALE: But I do, I've got some more to
18 say. We have had a substitute motion before
19 and we have voted on the substitute motion ---
20 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
21 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- without the original mover
22 accepting the substitute, and then if that
23 passes then don't hear that original --
24 (inaudible) don't go back. And we've done that
25 several times before.
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1 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
2 MS. PLAUGH: We haven't actually asked the question
3 (inaudible) ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
5 MS. PLAUGH: --- to get clarity.
6 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Gaines.
8 MR. GAINES: Since we had some help from the
9 parliamentarian, the -- Robert's provides that
10 the second substitute motion is not germane to
11 the main motion and it is out of order. And
12 then you go ahead and vote on the first ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Amendment.
14 MR. GAINES: The first substitute motion, yes, sir.
15 And it said it fails the main motion.
16 MS. PLAUGH: How do you determine whether it's the
17 main one?
18 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) motion.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: How do you determine ---
20 MS. PLAUGH: How do you determine whether it's the
21 main. I would think it is (inaudible). The
22 opposite of his motion so it ---
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
24 MS. PLAUGH: --- (Inaudible) germane.
25 MR. GAINES: Oh, yeah, okay. She said contrary to
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1 the original motion.
2 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
4 UNKNOWN FEMALE: May I speak?
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh please, Candy.
6 UNKNOWN FEMALE: The original motion was to hold the
7 election. Your substitute motion to put an
8 implementation date was appropriate. Your next
9 substitute was not appropriate because it's
10 contrary to the main motion. If the main
11 motion -- if the main motion fails, then your
12 motion is effective anyway, so you don't -- you
13 can't make a contrary motion. So, the first
14 vote should be on your motion to add to
15 Cameron's motion, the implementation date. If
16 that fails, then Cameron's motion comes up. If
17 his motion fails, then your motion is passed
18 anyway.
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: But Candy, I wanted to ask ---
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And then you can do your -- all
21 your other stuff.
22 UNKNOWN MALE: You had it right.
23 MS. DEVINE: Candy, I need clarification because
24 actually her -- originally she asked him about
25 adding a date, and so he added January 2014.
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1 Her substitute replacing where 2014 with
2 January 2018 so ---
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And that's what you go by first.
4 MS. DEVINE: And that is what we vote on first.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Right.
6 MS. DEVINE: I just want to make sure. It wasn't a
7 -- he could add one -- a date to his first
8 motion.
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: His first motion has a date and
10 then the substitute ---
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Has a new date.
12 UNKNOWN VOICE: Right.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And then if they fail, they your
14 motion is on the floor. But if your -- you
15 passed it because your motion is not necessary
16 ---
17 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So the motion is -- so the motion
19 before us and up for this date. Thank you,
20 (inaudible).
21 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) the procedure and get
22 right of Robert's.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The motion on the floor is to move
24 forward with the election in November of this
25 year with an implementation date of January,
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1 2018?
2 MS. PLAUGH: I withdraw my motion.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Move the previous question. Clerk
4 call roll.
5 MS. PLAUGH: Restate the motion, please.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The motion of the floor is to --
7 was Mr. Runyan's motion -- to move forward with
8 the referendum in November, and that would take
9 effect January of 2014. And clerk.
10 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
11 MR. BADDOURAH: No.
12 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
13 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
14 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
15 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
16 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
17 MS. PLAUGH: No.
18 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
19 MS. DEVINE: No.
20 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
21 MR. DAVIS: No.
22 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye.
24 (Applause.)
25 MS. DEVINE: I'd like to make another motion that
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1 what we (inaudible) previously thus to
2 immediately discuss scheduling of public
3 awareness and input sessions throughout the
4 city in all four districts. (Inaudible.)
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We doing this for a purpose?
6 MS. DEVINE: Because I think that we need to have a
7 discussion and I think people need to ask their
8 questions.
9 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So the motion is to -- we're going
11 to start doing this in the next few weeks, next
12 few months. I mean this, as a matter of
13 practicality, I think it's the wise thing to do
14 in terms of education (inaudible) electorate
15 because in the absence of that, I think we
16 (inaudible) the campaigns that won't the --
17 some of (inaudible). So, the motion is for
18 staff to start leading (inaudible) citizens
19 that (inaudible) legal voters.
20 MS. DEVINE: And I think Ms. Moore had already
21 started those discussions, but I'm just putting
22 it in a formal motion ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay. But there's more
24 discussion with League of Women Voters and
25 other organizations is actually on the
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1 (inaudible) of the election and ---
2 MS. DEVINE: (Inaudible) she started this week when
3 the (inaudible) with additional ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, adding delegations to the
5 (inaudible) League of Women Voters?
6 MS. DEVINE: Right. The League wanted -- had an
7 opportunity to come with their opinion. I
8 think Ms. Roblee stated that their meeting on
9 that soon and then they'll be ready to
10 (inaudible).
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. There's a motion, I
12 think it's been seconded ---
13 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) discussion.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Please -- and let's all keep in
15 mind we've still got a whole lot of issues to
16 take up tonight. So let's be as brief as we
17 can, please ---
18 MS. PLAUGH: I really just wanted to inquire because
19 it seems to me we might be better suited if we
20 would do this sometime after the first of the
21 year to start the process.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's (inaudible).
23 MS. PLAUGH: I mean, I'm just asking. I'm not --
24 I'm just discussing it, Tameika made the
25 motion, you know, leading up to that -- I don't
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1 want to confuse people.
2 MS. DEVINE: Well, no, my motion was immediately and
3 to be honest, Ms. Plaugh, my concern is that I
4 certainly don't think that conversation should
5 stop tonight and in the past, we've had this
6 and the conversation stopped. And then it
7 comes back up a month -- a month or two months
8 before the election. So clearly there has
9 been a discussion. You know, the mayor has
10 mentioned it, the Chamber has mentioned it,
11 about moving forward with a petition. So, you
12 know, they will be continuing to have the
13 discussion and my concern is if the discussion
14 is only being held by people who are pushing
15 one position or another, then we're not going
16 to have an open -- honest open dialogue
17 regarding what the voters would have us to
18 discuss. So, I would ask that we immediately
19 start that even before the elections.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No substitute motion made on that?
21 MS. PLAUGH: No, this time -- that was very, very
22 helpful because I forgot that, you know, we are
23 going to have that subject actively engaged in,
24 and that did clear it for me, thank you.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Mr. Davis?
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1 MR. DAVIS: I agree that the conversation is going
2 to continue. The dialogue is going to be there
3 because of the allowable second step, Howard,
4 which would be the referendum. Should that not
5 pass, I think the community still, you know,
6 maybe you ought to ask -- continue to have that
7 dialogue because, you know, I think the timing
8 of this again, perception wise, is that we're
9 rushing it and I don't -- I mean, I -- let's --
10 I don't necessarily subscribe to that
11 statement. That's one of the things that we've
12 got to deal with. And I had mentioned earlier,
13 nobody been whipping my butt about this. If
14 that were the case, I wouldn't have a problem
15 sitting down and talking with the groups. I'm
16 just getting everybody's real concerns, either
17 way, I wouldn't try to persuade anybody. And
18 then I think after all that takes place,
19 everybody gets their questions answered, you
20 really would have a more informed citizen group
21 that would make that decision. You know, and
22 at that point, you know, I can live with either
23 one. But, you know, I think it if you lose,
24 you lose. So, you live with what you've got.
25 And be a 100 percent player, you know, but
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1 until that happens, you know, I -- my position
2 is what it is. And that is also because -- I'd
3 tell you, tomorrow morning, there's certain --
4 every time I want to come in, nobody's going to
5 say you idiot why didn't you vote last night?
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Baddourah. You all, again,
7 I'm not (inaudible) you, but let's try to keep
8 it brief, you all, so we can move on with the
9 rest of the discussion ---
10 MR. BADDOURAH: I just want to add -- I don't know
11 that I want to add to the motion discussion,
12 but maybe we should have a deadline for the
13 goal for the next city election to have that
14 referendum on the ballot. Or maybe hold a
15 special election, but it's best to have it --
16 or have a goal to has that referendum, and the
17 word done, all the education, meetings that we
18 need to do to inform the public and maybe have
19 that referendum for the next city election
20 which is November 2015.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is that -- is that a stated goal or
22 is that a motion, or what is that, Moe?
23 MR. BADDOURAH: Maybe an adjustment to the motion,
24 Tameika, if that's ---
25 MS. DEVINE: Well I would just say that my only
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1 concern with that is, and I understand, Mr.
2 Gaines, the law is when Council votes, to put
3 it on the ballot, it needs to have 20, 31 and
4 89 days. And so, if that is in a motion, I'm
5 not -- are we able to do a motion setting a
6 date that is half that 90 days?
7 MR. GAINES: No, you pass an ordinance, the change
8 in form of government has to occur not earlier
9 than 30 days and not later than 90 days after
10 the passage of the ordinance so it's got to be
11 timed ---
12 MS. DEVINE: But what do you got -- he's not
13 suggesting ordinance, but he's suggesting a
14 motion that sets a date. And what I'm asking
15 is for clarity, even though it's not as
16 important, I'm not sure you are able to set a
17 date ---
18 MR. GAINES: It has zero effect.
19 MS. DEVINE: Effect.
20 MR. GAINES: It has zero effect. Either we're going
21 to decide to have an election, and that
22 election is placed in the ballot, election has
23 to be held no less than -- no more -- no less
24 than 30 days, no more than 90 days if we save
25 our replies. So, no, you can't do that because
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1 you don't know that.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The -- we've all had a chance to
3 have our say, like the seven of us. And it's
4 clear that whether we say were going to take it
5 up in 2015 or we say we want to have the
6 education sessions -- I'm happy -- which I do
7 strongly believe that we should do. I think
8 they should start promptly and I look forward
9 to getting a plan from the clerk as to when we
10 can start that, starting immediately, I
11 believe, because I think the education needs to
12 happen. Because I do believe that while this
13 Council -- and this Council voted several times
14 over the last few years to not give the people
15 the right to vote on this issue -- that while
16 this Council made (inaudible) I think -- I
17 really believe that we're mistreating the
18 people and that the people -- it's one thing
19 for you to tell folks that they don't have a
20 right to decide this issue. It's a whole other
21 thing for the people to come back and say yes
22 we do, yes we do. So, but that -- but that
23 will leave itself to be determined. Let's go
24 ahead and move forward with Ms. Devine's
25 motion. Well, yes, sir. Yes, sir.
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1 MR. DAVIS: My Mayor. One thing, I would take
2 exception to one thing.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
4 MR. DAVIS: My position and attitude is not and has
5 not been that I'm going to deny the voters to
6 decide this issue, it's not a pretty issue. My
7 position has the majority of the folks I
8 represent ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
10 MR. DAVIS: --- have not tagged me with their desire
11 to change the form of government somewhat. And
12 I'll stop there. I'm just saying that's not my
13 intention, to (inaudible) and so ...
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, I understand. I (inaudible) I
15 respect that.
16 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
17 UNKNOWN MALE: You're lucky.
18 MS. PLAUGH: That's the only vote that we voted in
19 2012.
20 UNKNOWN MALE: In 2013.
21 UNKNOWN MALE: You said it (inaudible).
22 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
23 UNKNOWN MALE: Mayor Ben, let's not give it to this
24 Council.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's true. The motion on the
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1 floor is that we begin education sessions. Ms.
2 (inaudible) clerk come back to us with the
3 plan. I'll have her do that. The amendments
4 to that motion. Mr. (inaudible), you called it
5 second. (Inaudible.)
6 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
7 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye
8 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
9 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
10 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
11 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
12 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
13 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
14 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
15 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
16 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
17 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
18 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. And Erika, you said you'd
20 reach out, just make sure we have a broad based
21 group of folks involved in that. I think
22 League of Women Voters is always a good place
23 to start and let's actively involve the
24 Columbia Council neighborhoods, (inaudible),
25 the business groups, (inaudible) counsel.
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1 Let's -- I mean, the Community Relations
2 Counsel also. And so, let's make sure we're
3 very -- we're very inclusive and make sure you
4 utilize all the different outlets to make sure
5 we have 10 folks. All right.
6 UNKNOWN MALE: Maybe you should have seen my plan
7 which includes the (inaudible) .
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, thank you.
9 MS. PLAUGH: Mayor, could I ask you just for one --
10 I just want to go back to the polling question.
11 If there was polls out there, I really would,
12 to the degree that they're available, I'd be
13 interested in them because I truly have not
14 seen them, so.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Lot of good to save the polls.
16 MS. PLAUGH: I know but ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's after your ---
18 MS. PLAUGH: But I was -- it was the ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You can sit down just to see your
20 poll that you did pay for.
21 MS. DEVINE: Yeah, well I would ask ---
22 MS. PLAUGH: No, but I would ask -- the people are
23 under the assumption that we've seen the polls
24 that ---
25 UNKNOWN FEMALE: That's somebody not ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, okay, okay.
2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah -- so get -- they are out
3 there, we -- so if they're out there
4 (inaudible) makes me share just like the other
5 the public information that (inaudible).
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We have a motion to approve
7 (inaudible)?
8 MR. DAVIS: So moved.
9 MR. RUNYAN: Seconded.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: On second. Discussion? Ms. Plaugh?
11 MS. PLAUGH: Yeah, we're good ...
12 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yes.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is there something you want to talk
15 (inaudible)?
16 MS. PLAUGH: I do. I have to get to it.
17 MR. DAVIS: We're withdrawing the motion. I'll
18 withdraw the motion. Go ahead and move forward
19 with other discussion
20 MS. WILSON: I want to add, Mayor, there's none in
21 Council that -- for the Clean Water 2020
22 Program, we have samples and (inaudible)
23 audience to participate in our presentation.
24 You know, I would thoroughly love they would
25 continue to stay but, you know, I certainly if
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1 they cannot.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay.
3 MS. WILSON: I have a financial staff (inaudible).
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. I need to get -- we need to
5 go ahead and move forward with the homeless
6 discussion and why (inaudible).
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Mayor, the (inaudible) but I just
8 wanted to complement the staff. We have a bid
9 on there that we're using low preference. We
10 also have another major bid on there where the
11 majority of subcontracting work is going to
12 local firms. And I -- the purpose of my
13 (inaudible) is I wanted sure that I
14 complemented the staff for their good work and
15 bringing the money to Columbia.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Willing to please. Clerk call
17 roll.
18 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
19 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye
20 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
21 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
22 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
23 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
24 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
25 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
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1 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
2 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
3 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
4 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
5 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. The motion to bank
7 resolutions 41 through 47 as one vote. The
8 motion I believe. Is there's a second
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Second.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And seconded. Same members
11 (inaudible). Clerk call role. (Inaudible.)
12 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
13 MR. BADDOURAH: 41 through 47?
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, yeah.
15 MR. BADDOURAH: Yes, then aye.
16 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
17 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
18 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
19 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
20 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
21 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
22 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
23 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
24 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
25 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
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1 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All of these with the exception of
3 -- now, are you okay with 9, 10 and 11.
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let's go ahead and poll with the
6 discussion of homelessness.
7 MS. DEVINE: You mean withdrawing 9, 10 and 11 or
8 polling them or what ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.) Okay, all right.
10 MS. DEVINE: I know Ms. Plaugh had Number 9 ---
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Can waive this (inaudible).
12 MS. PLAUGH: I think we could have a lawyer say your
13 -- yeah we're (inaudible) residents here.
14 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay, all right.
15 MS. PLAUGH: Did we want to proceed?
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: We have lawyers here on ---
17 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I don't think we were taking up
18 (inaudible) the ordinances were left out of the
19 ---
20 MS. DEVINE: Right, that's -- the mayor's recusing
21 himself and I would
22 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
23 MS. DEVINE: We can move forward ---
24 UNKNOWN MALE: On which one, which one is that?
25 MS. DEVINE: 30 -- can we take 36 and 37 together?
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1 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We're going to start the discussion
3 of homelessness. We've got (inaudible) folks
4 that have been waiting all night long. Let's
5 get this party started. So -- yeah, I -- we --
6 -
7 UNKNOWN MALE: It'll be proper to raise the point of
8 order.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, yes.
10 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible) that's on the agenda,
11 (inaudible) we may to talk about homelessness.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'd like to do that.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Well, can we get the free poll
14 (inaudible) lawyer, I mean, ---
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, it's ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- (inaudible)
17 UNKNOWN MALE: We'll hold 32 through 37?
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I tell you, we've got everybody
19 practicing, all the troops (inaudible) tonight.
20 I don't think I like it.
21 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) I think everyone's fine to
22 wait for everything else ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We don't need the lawyers here, let
24 them go home. I don't need the lawyers here
25 for any of those issues, I think could be
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1 wrong.
2 MS. WILSON: Yeah, Tameika, uh-huh.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Well, they can (inaudible).
4 MS. WILSON: Yes, absolutely.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Let's move forward. For the folks
6 who are not there, they could be here. Let's
7 move on to item number four, Ms. Nancy will be
8 fine.
9 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Good evening, Mayor and Council,
10 what should we do without the homeless problem
11 in Columbia. In the last week, I have been
12 bombarded with hundreds of responses to this
13 one question. As members of City Council, I
14 know you are getting the same questions,
15 criticisms and suggestions. For the members of
16 the public in this room, I want to take a
17 minute to explain how the group I am
18 representing got to this point. Steve Gantt,
19 former city manager asked a staff person at USC
20 School of Medicine to put together a group of
21 people representing non-profits, churches,
22 neighborhood leaders, city residents, private
23 business and government representatives. This
24 diverse group was requested to do three things:
25 one, determine what the issues were in terms of
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1 the homeless; two, research and discuss each
2 issue; and three, develop some recommendations
3 for Mayor and Council. We agreed on two goals:
4 one, to reduce the impact of homelessness on
5 all citizens in the City of Columbia; and two,
6 to objectively look at the money the City of
7 Columbia was currently spending on homeless
8 programs. We divided into four groups based on
9 the nature of problems we identified last
10 October. The winter shelter, the Calhoun
11 Street corridor, meals and feeding of the
12 homeless, and the sanitation problems. That
13 was over six months ago. Members of Council,
14 you have received our report. Four people on
15 the homeless committee are here to quickly
16 summarize each subcommittee's recommendation.
17 The first is Tom Bolton from USC School of
18 medicine.
19 MR. BOLTON: Hi, how are you guys? Hey, thanks for
20 having me. I appreciate the time tonight.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: How old are you?
22 (Laughter.)
23 MR. BOLTON: Is that a legal question?
24 (Laughter.)
25 (Applause.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Only tonight (inaudible).
2 MR. BOLTON: Well, first of all I want to say thank
3 you for your time tonight. It's encouraging to
4 know that the leadership of the city is
5 exploring such a hot bun issue. Like I said
6 before, my name is Tom Bolton. I've been a
7 homeless service provider in Columbia for just
8 over five years. During that time I've worked
9 as a street level homeless outreach worker.
10 I've served as the winter shelter coordinator
11 for two years in 2009 and 2010. I've worked to
12 help the homeless find employment. And
13 currently I am the case manager for the Housing
14 First Program which serves chronically
15 homeless, disabled and fam- -- disabled
16 individuals and families. From my experience
17 as a provider in Columbia, one of the most
18 important lessons that I've learned is that
19 homelessness is an immensely complex issue.
20 And because it's so complex, there's not really
21 one good solution. Each person's situation is
22 different which means that their -- the
23 solution to their situation must be different
24 as well. The issue cannot be efficiently
25 remedied without a cooperative effort involving
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1 many different providers all working in their
2 field of expertise to come together and reduce
3 homelessness in our community. That's why
4 we're all here tonight. That's why our
5 committee was created. That's why we have
6 diligently worked to make recommendations to
7 you guys in respect to the winter shelter. So,
8 through researching shelter occupancy rates, we
9 toured the facility and we also examined the
10 residual impact of this shelter on Columbia as
11 a whole, especially of the downtown area. This
12 committee determined that a reduction strategy
13 over the next three to five years would save
14 taxpayer money, it would better allocate
15 declining resources, and ultimately it would
16 help take the homeless of the streets, but more
17 importantly keep them off the streets. The
18 plan is a gradual downsizing of the winter
19 shelter in which the City of Columbia would be
20 left with a smaller, less expensive, bare bones
21 emergency shelter, which is kind of completely
22 opposite of what we have right now. The money
23 saved, which would be quite a bit, I think --
24 we have recommendations on how to spend that
25 money, which I'll get to in a little bit, but
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1 ultimately it would be your all's decision.
2 Our proposal was derived with consideration to
3 the homeless, to the surrounding neighborhoods,
4 to businesses in the downtown area and also we
5 considered the burden on the city itself
6 because a lot of times people forget about the
7 burden it places on the city and the
8 infrastructure. Last year proved that the
9 winter shelter is just not being used enough.
10 Through researching shelter numbers last
11 winter, we found that over the course of the
12 year they averaged 180 people. The capacity of
13 that shelter is 240 people. So, from my time
14 as the shelter coordinator, before Transitions
15 came along, we were at capacity for almost the
16 entire season. And during the peak winter
17 months, which are December, January and
18 February, we were sending probably 20 to 30
19 people to overflow at Martin Luther King Park
20 almost every single night. After Transitions
21 came along, that changed. And I would assume
22 that that is because the supply of beds in
23 Columbia rose and thusly the demand went down.
24 And I think that we are really still seeing
25 that trend today. Last year's numbers clearly
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1 indicate that Columbia's most expensive and
2 highest capacity resource to address
3 homelessness is not being utilized in it's most
4 efficient manner. To put it plainly, some of
5 the money used to fund the winter shelter could
6 be put to better use because the shelter is not
7 being used at -- in full capacity at 240. In
8 no way is this an attempt to critique Christ
9 Central. I know Carrie, who ran the shelter
10 last year, I know Pastor Jones from running the
11 shelter before, I think that they did an
12 incredible job, but the main issue is that they
13 only had 180 on average when it serves 240. So
14 I'm looking at the -- a huge $500,000 budget
15 and going, okay, you're not running at full
16 capacity so that money is not being used
17 effectively. In the first two years of this
18 recommended plan, our plan would take the
19 number of beds in the winter shelter to 180.
20 This was their average attend- -- from 240 we
21 would take the capacity with really to 240, we
22 take it down to 180. This was what they
23 operated at full last year, but we would make
24 it our full capacity. It would also allow --
25 freeing up this space would allow for the
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1 overflow shelter which has been traditionally
2 located at MLK Park to actually, instead of
3 transporting people there, you could just have
4 it in the shelter but create a different area
5 within the shelter so you save on
6 transportation costs. You could use mats on
7 the floor if you need to. Of course, you'd
8 probably have to -- you've probably have to
9 talk with the fire marshal about that, but we
10 think that possible it could be done. But if
11 people are not fully utilizing our most
12 expensive homeless resource, then we should
13 change it. So, what we recommend is that we
14 take that money that is not being used and we
15 use in different ways that would address more
16 permanent homeless solutions. This committee
17 believes that we should at least examine those
18 possibilities. You may wonder why the numbers
19 are increasing, which they are. The point in
20 time count last year in 2013 indicated that
21 homelessness in Richland County is actually
22 going up. And I just -- I found that
23 interesting because the shelter is only
24 operating at 180 when it could be operating at
25 240. The point in time count report said that
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1 the increase is likely due to both new people
2 becoming homeless and people with long-term or
3 repeat episodes. Those people that are
4 chronically homeless, with multiple episodes of
5 homelessness, or the people that stay outside
6 are typically the most difficult to engage. So
7 this plan would allow for increased outreach,
8 street outreach, outreach workers to compact
9 the long-term homelessness by meeting the
10 person where they are, in the street. And we
11 would also advocate for after-care case
12 management which would reduce repeat episodes
13 by proving case management and crisis
14 intervention to formerly homeless -- formerly
15 homeless individuals that actually achieved
16 housing, a positive housing result out of the
17 shelter. Both of those are proven and
18 effective methods and this proposed
19 recommendation would allow for an increase in
20 both of those. Also, we've recommended that
21 the shelter, instead of opening on November 1st
22 and running until March 31st, we recommended
23 that the shelter cut it by a month. So
24 basically in the beginning you have -- you have
25 the fifteen days in the beginning which is the
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1 1st through the 15th, and it's really not that
2 crowded. You have the 15 days on the end, it's
3 really not that crowded. So, I -- and
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What's the rationale behind that?
5 MR. BOLTON: The weather, just the weather would
6 allow for it. I think a lot of people don't
7 come in because they know that the potential
8 for arrests ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We're talking about serving the
10 homeless in a meaningful way but want to cut 30
11 days off of the shelter?
12 MR. BOLTON: Yes.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Because it's still warm outside?
14 MR. BOLTON: Yes.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay.
16 MR. BOLTON: But, the strategy is -- how much would
17 a month of homeless shelter operations ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think we actually (inaudible)
19 actually. Maybe I'm wrong. We don't -- we
20 don't have those numbers, but I just want to
21 make sure ---
22 MR. BOLTON: I think the point behind this, if you
23 can shave off a month you're going to save some
24 money.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Save some money.
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1 MR. BOLTON: You can reinvest that into services
2 that would help take people out of
3 homelessness, like street outreach workers and
4 after-care case management.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
6 MR. BOLTON: That's kind of the gist of the plan.
7 So, for time, I'm not going to go over each
8 specific year, but it is specifically laid out
9 there for you. One last thing that I would
10 like to say is that -- I want to address this
11 one myth that I think is out there. And I
12 think this it's really a myth that the -- that
13 homeless individuals are not coming off the
14 streets of Columbia. I think that -- I know
15 that the shelter took people off the streets
16 last year. Transitions has incredible numbers.
17 The Housing First Program that I work with, we
18 have great numbers. The thing that we need to
19 concentrate on is what we track after the
20 people are out of homelessness. So, I think a
21 lot of people are exiting the -- a homeless
22 shelter, getting housed, they don't have the
23 proper case management to keep them in housing
24 and then they come right back into the system.
25 I think that's where we need to go. This
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1 system -- this plan can provide a lot of that.
2 Thank you.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Thank you. Questions for --
4 Mr. Davis. or Mr. ---
5 MR. DAVIS: When they have those challenges, how do
6 you track it and how soon do you intervene?
7 Those that may not be successful in a -- in a
8 residential placement, they're apartments?
9 MR. BOLTON: The point was that we need to start
10 doing a better job of tracking that
11 information.
12 MR. DAVIS: Uh-huh.
13 MR. BOLTON: And the -- not only do we need to track
14 it, but we need after-care case managers to
15 make sure that after someone leaves a shelter
16 that they're not just out there on their own.
17 MR. DAVIS: Right.
18 MR. BOLTON: That -- these people still have pretty
19 complex needs. And in order to do that, you
20 need money. This program frees up money --
21 this proposal would free up money and that
22 would be an integral part in achieving that
23 end.
24 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. Runyan?
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1 MR. RUNYAN: Tom, you mentioned a couple numbers, I
2 just -- I'd actually just like to get just like
3 your opinion on, or your thoughts, I guess, you
4 did mention that the winter shelter averaged
5 roughly 180 folks last year as opposed to past
6 year (ph) of 240 ---
7 MR. BOLTON: Yes.
8 MR. RUNYAN: --- we have overflow capacity, that we
9 do see between two -- small numbers between
10 2010 and 2012, the highest increase in
11 homelessness in the State of South Carolina, in
12 Columbia, by far higher than any other area.
13 So I'm just trying to reconcile how we saw the
14 highest increase of homeless prevalence in the
15 State of South Carolina but yet we saw a lower
16 shelter population, and I just want to make
17 sure that we're attributing -- where we need to
18 attribut the cause ---
19 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible.)
20 MR. RUNYAN: --- if we go shutting down the shelter
21 and we have not addressed root (ph) causes,
22 we're going to have a problem that explodes
23 even more on the streets than we have right
24 now.
25 MR. BOLTON: Yeah, I under -- I understand the
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1 question. I think I've been instructed to
2 introduce Craig. But I ---
3 (Laughter.)
4 MR. BOLTON: No, no, I want to answer it, you all,
5 I really do. I think that -- I think that it
6 doesn't matter if you have 5,000 homeless
7 people out there -- I mean it does to me, but
8 if they're not using the resource, you're
9 wasting money. So if the resource -- if our
10 most expensive resource is not being utilized
11 at full capacity, we need to take the money
12 that's going there and move it to another
13 place.
14 MR. RUNYAN: So you think those people were on the
15 streets, but they just didn't use the shelter?
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Right ---
17 MR. BOLTON: Yeah ---
18 MR. BOLTON: But I don't think if they were anywhere
19 else.
20 MR. RUNYAN: I'm trying to understand -- I'm trying
21 to understand (inaudible) ---
22 MR. BOLTON: Once ---
23 MR. RUNYAN: --- what the fault (ph) line is here.
24 MR. BOLTON: When Transitions opened, they were not
25 (inaudible) the Council for it. So suddenly,
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1 you've increased your (inaudible) by the
2 clients at Transitions because they count
3 homeless as they're in a shelter. They weren't
4 (inaudible).
5 MR. RUNYAN: Okay. And then just -- and just in
6 this general, where the mind could go,
7 (inaudible) understanding.
8 MR. BOLTON: What the recommendation is?
9 MR. RUNYAN: Yeah, the recommendation is just to
10 terminate the winter shelter and then redirect
11 ---
12 MR. BOLTON: No, no, no, no.
13 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible.)
14 MR. BOLTON: No, it's a phased out, it's a gradual
15 phased out ---
16 MR. RUNYAN: --- winter shelter and redirect those
17 funds existing programs.
18 MR. BOLTON: At the end -- not really. At the end
19 of the -- at the end of the downsizing, what --
20 you'd be left with is a really, really small
21 bare bones shelter, which at that point the
22 Council could make the recommendation of, hey,
23 we don't need it any more or say another non-
24 profit could take it over and get a grant.
25 Where the money would go, in our
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1 recommendation, would be to go to additional
2 street outreach and after care case management.
3 All right.
4 MR. BOLTON: Thank you ---
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: When (inaudible) saying bare bones,
6 what exactly do you mean by bare bones ---
7 MR. BOLTON: Bare bones would, to me -- Craig,
8 sorry. Bare bones to me would mean not a lot
9 of capacity, not a lot of services attached to
10 it. Just a place where you go and you sleep
11 and you get up and you go back into the
12 community. They have case management attached
13 to it right now.
14 MR. BOLTON: When you (inaudible) what ---
15 MR. BOLTON: I'm going to have to introduce Craig if
16 you -- I'm being instructed ---
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) one question about
18 Housing First, you mentioned Housing First.
19 MR. BOLTON: Yeah.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: About the numbers, how many people
21 is Housing First serving right now?
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: 56.
23 MR. BOLTON: 56.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) active cases right now?
25 UNKNOWN FEMALE: About 56 people have (inaudible).
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, all right.
2 MR. BOLTON: You can make an commentary ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I was listening to Ms. Plaugh.
4 MS. PLAUGH: Um ---
5 MR. BOLTON: Fred, you're welcome to come on up
6 anytime ---
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 MS. PLAUGH: Actually, I'm going to go back to the
9 county because I happened to be at the meeting
10 of the chamber, and I thought there was a very
11 good explanation given and, Mac, I don't doubt
12 you or somebody else -- I was going ---
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I asked that same question and he
14 and Julie Ann, I think, gave an excellent
15 explanation that made sense to me ---
16 MS. PLAUGH: Now, the public needs to understand why
17 that count went up so dramatically cause it did
18 it's a shocker for me. And the other thing
19 that I understand, to go back to the Housing
20 First, is that you are working some other the
21 most difficult individuals (inaudible) is my
22 understanding and that's why the intensiveness
23 of your service that it takes and the numbers
24 are where they are because they are they the
25 hardest (inaudible). Is that true?
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1 MR. BOLTON: Yeah, it is true but I think that in
2 respect to what we're trying to do that maybe
3 we could talk about Housing First at another
4 time.
5 MS. PLAUGH: Okay.
6 MR. BOLTON: And let Craig come up.
7 MS. PLAUGH: Sure ---
8 MR. BENNETT: You know, I was at Tom's age when I
9 made the presentation on the site selection
10 seven years ago and you see what it did to me.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I was there with you, man.
12 MR. BENNETT: Yeah.
13 UNKNOWN MALE: Look at our mayor.
14 MR. BENNETT: (Inaudible.) The numbers did go up
15 about 400 people in the head count from 2011 to
16 2013. Tom was right, we increased the beds.
17 So the count by 260 in the beds so that is part
18 of the reason. We also used police officers to
19 go out and participate in the count so they
20 knew where the homeless people were. And also
21 Craig, working with the managers of the count,
22 assigned homeless people in each of the groups
23 that went out. So they knew where to go, where
24 to look, where the homeless hung out, as did
25 the police, so we felt like we were much more
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1 efficient at managing the count than ever
2 before and with the Transitions beds being
3 added, that was -- obviously, it's easier to
4 count people that are in a -- in a shelter.
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: But the numbers have risen.
6 MR. BENNETT: Yeah.
7 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, Mr. Baddourah?
9 MR. BADDOURAH: Just to make -- just to help me
10 understand this, so you think that homeless
11 number, or the count, hasn't really changed
12 much but just because we now are counting the
13 beds of the people that are at Transitions,
14 Housing First and other agencies, that we can
15 actually count the number of people out there
16 is what made this number jump?
17 MR. BENNETT: I don't want to mislead anyone, but
18 that's certainly -- there was increasing ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mac, (inaudible) the microphone so
20 these people behind can ---
21 MR. BENNETT: Excuse me.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- as well.
23 MR. BENNETT: There were increases in the sheltered
24 as well as the unsheltered count on that -- on
25 the point in time count, but by adding 260 beds
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1 that weren't in the count in 2011, we know that
2 we increased the count by 260 people.
3 UNKNOWN MALE: Mac?
4 MR. BENNETT: What was the increase in your shelter
5 (inaudible)?
6 MR. BENNETT: I don't have that figure right now.
7 I'd say -- I acknowledge that it went up, the
8 unsheltered and the sheltered counts, both of
9 them went up ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) went down. I'm just
11 trying to make (inaudible) everything seems
12 connected by ---
13 MR. BENNETT: Yeah.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
15 MS. PLAUGH: And in that count, did you have any
16 information about how many beds were not being
17 utilized?
18 MR. BENNETT: In the count, there were, for all the
19 shelters where there was -- where a counting
20 was done, there were percentages of the -- of
21 the -- whether that shelter was full that
22 night.
23 MS. PLAUGH: If we could get those numbers that
24 (inaudible) interesting ---
25 MR. BENNETT: --- think would be -- I will share
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1 those with council.
2 MS. PLAUGH: Thank you.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. All right, Mac.
4 MR. BENNETT: Thank you. Let me have Craig come up
5 and ---
6 MR. CURREY: Hi, I'm Craig. Thank you for having
7 us. I know it's just been long, but I
8 appreciate your patience, Mr. Mayor and
9 Council, thank you for having us. I do work at
10 Transitions and I work on the Calhoun Street
11 Corridor Subcommittee. To explain that very
12 quickly, that is focused on the Calhoun Street
13 area, that was identified as an area that
14 needed a -- particularly help and to be looked
15 at closely. And roughly, it was about a block
16 on each side of Calhoun all the way down to
17 Harden and up beyond Harden. So it was the
18 full length of Calhoun, kind of a block to each
19 side, and that was what we -- we moved out as
20 a committee and tried to look at it. The
21 problems we identified and focused on was
22 litter -- littering, sleeping in unauthorized
23 areas, panhandling, jaywalking, vagrancy, poor
24 information on homelessness, easy liquor access
25 and vacant lots.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah.
2 MR. CURREY: For some of those, we have
3 recommendations and for some, we've implemented
4 things already. For other areas, we didn't do
5 as well and we throw those out for
6 consideration, for everybody to look at in the
7 future. The accomplishments I would think is
8 trying to -- being put up along Calhoun,
9 basically no loitering and no panhandling. And
10 Robert Anderson helped with those and we want
11 to publically thank him for making that happen,
12 along with new garbage cans. One of the
13 issues, litter, was a primary focus. We looked
14 at that hard and with no garbage cans along
15 Calhoun or few garbage cans, that's a very
16 simple thing but, you know, people throw stuff
17 on the ground if there's no place to put it.
18 So the cans have helped. They are full a lot
19 and they are emptied regularly by the city, so
20 we appreciate that. The signs by themselves
21 are not necessarily the answer. However, it
22 does help the police with enforcement. There
23 are legalities, the sign is a warning for
24 loitering, for no panhandling and it gets the
25 message out to folks in the area.
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1 Additionally, the trash patrols from
2 Transitions, we implemented those, we increased
3 those because of this committee, Monday to
4 Friday in the morning, so teams are out clover
5 leafing from Transitions and really getting the
6 Main Street, Assembly, up and down Calhoun, in
7 particular, those are the areas where the teams
8 go out and focus on. So that effort will
9 continue. The yellow shirts and the City
10 Center Partnership, they've continue as well on
11 the -- in that area along the Calhoun corridor,
12 just picking up the garbage. And some
13 panhandle posters have gone up, Center City
14 Partnership worked with those. We developed
15 posters that could be used by businesses
16 willing to speak to their customers and folks
17 in the area about the advantage of not just
18 handing money to panhandlers, to encouraging
19 them to go to seek programs, call 211, get help
20 that will last, not just hand a dollar bill.
21 So that -- again, those were distributed in the
22 (inaudible) area, homeless cards as well, by
23 the police department, the Columbia Housing
24 Authority, it -- folks encouraging people to go
25 to Transitions. One thing that I think the
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1 city can work on is a consistent message to
2 tell folks, hey, go to Transitions. I mean,
3 people who are, you know, panhandled or
4 whatever, they -- their answer should be very
5 quick and very automatic, you know, hey, you
6 know, go here and get help and not a real
7 complicated diatribe, no lecture or anything,
8 just say, hey, you can go there and get help
9 and here's -- in fact, here's a card. And the
10 cards were distributed to businesses -- we have
11 more of those for anybody who wants the cards.
12 But that -- that's something simple that the
13 public to businesses can do to help fight the
14 problem. It may not solve the problem
15 completely, but it -- it's something that
16 people could say and -- and as a result they
17 can do something. (Inaudible) did not -- we
18 didn't have a great answer on vacant lot piece.
19 We're seeing -- with AgFirst moving in next to
20 transitions, the renovations in the building,
21 the security in the building, the fencing, you
22 know, it eliminated the problem on that vacant
23 piece of property completely. Heck, I'm afraid
24 to walk over there now to be honest with you
25 but, I mean, it -- the property is well taken
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1 care of, it's occupied and hence folks go
2 somewhere else. There are vacant lots on
3 Calhoun, I'd encourage folks, you know, with
4 the Chamber, Center City Partnership, to try to
5 find ways to put businesses in that again, that
6 would solve the problem with vacant lots.
7 We've asked for greater police foot patrol in
8 the report. Foot patrols can help with
9 panhandling, they can help with jaywalking, a
10 great police presence will do -- that, you
11 know, something that maybe no one else can do.
12 The additional thing I think that could be
13 brought out here, you know, many panhandlers
14 are not homeless and homeless take the wrath
15 for all panhandling. The reality is in Miami
16 study, over 80% of panhandlers were not
17 homeless. And I think people need to realize
18 that, you know, we can put up a million
19 shelters and people will still panhandle if you
20 let them because it's good business. You stake
21 out your area and, you know, many folks maybe
22 see people on interstate interchanges and some
23 of these folks are not homeless, they're --
24 they're dressing up and they're, you know,
25 asking people for money and it's profitable.
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1 So again, I only I'm going to throw that out
2 from the -- the committee is that panhandling
3 -- if you're concerning about panhandling, you
4 need to address panhandling and extra police
5 officers who are dismounted in the downtown
6 area to help with that. As we talked about
7 people numbers, one of the things was to try to
8 get people where they need to be and get help.
9 We looked at a virtual intake system. We think
10 there's definite possibilities there. HUD
11 requires that and (inaudible) working on in any
12 way, regardless of what happens, the virtual
13 intake system is being worked on to be
14 implemented. One of the things here, if you
15 combine that with outreach teams, you can try
16 to get some of the folks to where they need to
17 be, wherever that is and with whatever provider
18 or place where you can get a bed or geta
19 service, if maybe it's not a bed or directed to
20 a meal. So again, those folks, that's an
21 answer and that virtual system is something
22 that is being worked on and the committee
23 supported that and are interested in that going
24 further. The (inaudible) of serving alcohol
25 was an issue. The Council did work with
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1 neighbors on limiting a license to a -- an
2 alcohol store that would gone in near the
3 corridor. The single serving piece, we don't
4 have a good handle on, there's legal
5 implications there. The idea unfortunately is
6 that some businesses target who don't have much
7 money by serving single servings in -- of
8 alcohol and it's really not what the homeless
9 folks need. So again, in that area, we don't
10 have a good answer and we would throw that out
11 to the City Council and we're still searching
12 for the best way to approach that, really for
13 everyone's benefit. Educating people is
14 important. We've mentioned that tonight with
15 different areas. One of the things we found
16 during Councilman Runyan's sessions, there are
17 many people who really don't understand what is
18 available to help people. And getting that
19 out, either through the Internet on web sites,
20 through cards, through signs at bus stations,
21 there are different techniques that can be used
22 and we offer that. But one of the things that
23 needs to happen better is the folks being
24 educated on city web sites, you know, maybe
25 they know a homeless person so they're trying
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1 to find out what to do to help the homeless
2 person. Maybe you are homeless and you don't
3 really know what to do, so the ways to get that
4 information are important and may enter this
5 anywhere. So as you enter, you have to get
6 directed by engagement people, outreach
7 workers, whatever the system, a web site, to
8 help you -- steer you to where you need to go
9 to get help. Finally, on the railroad piece,
10 we have Elizabeth Marks made progress there.
11 We learned a lot but really the land is kind of
12 an entity unto itself. They secure it, they
13 pick up garbage, they cut bushes and that sort
14 of thing. So we're working -- we found the
15 right person in the railroad department that
16 Elizabeth is working with to try to make sure
17 those areas are well cared for too. They are
18 possessive. I'm not an expert on everything,
19 but they do -- they do control that land so
20 we've got to make sure the interface is good
21 with them and that they're doing the proper
22 things to help and make sure that's taken care
23 of. Small (inaudible) add up to a lot, you
24 know, some of these aren't real glamorous. I
25 was never that excited about garbage cans but
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1 I was pretty happy when Robert Anderson got the
2 things put in, I was like hallelujah, we got
3 the garbage cans in. So, it's a small
4 incremental thing but, again, they add up
5 across my, you know, many areas, little things
6 add up. We want to serve on the committee,
7 we're thankful that you've let us talk tonight
8 and we were glad to have met and try to come up
9 with ideas. Barring any questions, I will be
10 followed by -- what's -- I will not be followed
11 yet.
12 UNKNOWN MALE: I do have a question on (inaudible)
13 your comment. Your comment that more foot
14 traffic or foot policeman (inaudible). Any
15 idea (inaudible) estimate how many more
16 policemen that you would think you would need
17 or any more ---
18 MR. CURREY: The committee was very clear that the
19 police should decide that. We didn't -- we did
20 not want to start directing that you have to
21 have 10 officers or 15 officers, we just
22 thought some more would be appropriate and
23 again, as we expanded beyond the Calhoun
24 corridor, these policemen would be along the
25 corridor but they'd also move into Main Street,
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1 they'd go wherever the police thought they
2 would best helped the downtown area.
3 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
4 MR. CURREY: Please.
5 MS. DEVINE: Um ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Devine.
7 MS. DEVINE: It's more of a comment. I just wanted
8 to publicly commend you and (inaudible) offered
9 the mental health commitment. In one of my
10 hearings, we had a client that I'd had several
11 times and mentally ill as well as some
12 substance abuse issues. And the (inaudible)
13 court, she's on her meds, she's been at
14 Transitions and you all worked with Mercy and
15 she's getting housing ---
16 MR. CURREY: Good, good.
17 MS. DEVINE: --- and the judge specifically told me
18 that she had seen this woman for years and
19 really never thought that she -- was hopeful
20 but she was really worried about what would
21 happen and so she mentioned to me that you all
22 working together, that they -- on the
23 (inaudible). So, I know that there's been a
24 lot of discussion about Transitions and what
25 you're doing and what you're not doing,
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1 whatever, but I wanted to say publicly
2 (inaudible) this group's going (inaudible)
3 kind of (inaudible) one of the most difficult
4 clients that clearly, you all have made a
5 difference in her life. And she is actually
6 working so -- to help others as well so I think
7 that that's excellent and I just wanted to say
8 that publicly.
9 MR. CURREY: Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No other questions?
12 MR. CURREY: I will be followed by Ellen Cooper.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Cooper, you still here?
14 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
15 MS. COOPER: He's in charge. When you said that, I
16 thought you were going to ask me my age.
17 UNKNOWN MALE: It's none of my ---
18 (Applause.)
19 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
20 MS. COOPER: I mean, I was offered (inaudible) for
21 that.
22 UNKNOWN MALE: I expect nothing. It came from my
23 love, that's all I know.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, thank you.
25 MS. COOPER: Okay. Thank you very much.
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
2 (Applause.)
3 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) her age.
4 MS. COOPER: Well, let's just say I've been around
5 for a while.
6 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
7 MS. COOPER: But I knew more mayors that the person
8 who got up and said she went as far back as
9 Kirk Finley. I go back further than that. The
10 subcommittee that I'm reporting is the meals
11 subcommittee. This subcommittee was tasked
12 with addressing the impact of the meal service
13 for the homeless in our city. If issues were
14 found, this committee would then provide
15 recommendations to the city to take action in
16 an effort to diminish the impact from our -- on
17 our community as a whole. As all members of
18 the subcommittee agreed, serving the homeless,
19 some without the resources to provide
20 nourishment for themselves, has been a central
21 component in the city's respectful and
22 responsible effort to impede the state of
23 homeless in Columbia in general. Other meal
24 services to Columbia's homeless population has
25 been a consistent standard in our city for many
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1 years. After researching the existing
2 resources, the committee found several elements
3 of meal service on the whole that can be
4 adjusted to improve the efficiency of this
5 service while respectfully addressing the needs
6 of the Columbia homeless, while still allowing
7 those to give in the matter -- of the forum
8 (ph) to do so. You can't really see over here,
9 the map, but you might want to look at it, you
10 know, at some point before you leave. We have
11 tried to pinpoint the different feeding areas.
12 There's -- below that, there's the times that
13 these areas -- the meals go on. And so, we
14 found that there were approximately about 30 to
15 42 established feeding sites during a period of
16 a week. The examination of the current meal
17 service locations and times revealed that it
18 was possible for persons receiving meal
19 services to actually have multiple meals during
20 the same hours of the day. For example, one
21 meal provider would serve their lunch from
22 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 -- to noon, while another
23 could conduct and serve their meals from 12:30
24 to 1:30. The subcommittee acknowledges that
25 for a person in need having two lunches is not
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1 an absurdity, but the duplication in services
2 does increase foot traffic in the downtown
3 business area and throughout the neighborhoods
4 as people transgress from one meal site to
5 another. This subcomittee is not (inaudible)
6 food or any food exempts for the homeless, but
7 it does recognize that food services eventually
8 impact our community. After conferring with
9 area business leaders and local neighborhood
10 officials, the subcommittee deduced that a
11 reduction in foot traffic would reduce the
12 residual litter that derives from their
13 respective meals and reduction in feed traffic.
14 Subcommittee members hope to establish
15 (inaudible) lunch meal providers and
16 coordinated an effort to adjust their times of
17 service so that the chance of duplicating meals
18 are dramatically reduced. In other words, we
19 asked a couple of them that served at lunch,
20 why don't you all serve from 12:00 to 1:00 and
21 they went on that schedule. So that has helped
22 to reduce some of the foot traffic at lunch
23 time. Now, we were not successful in doing
24 all, but we did get some of them to do that.
25 This subcommittee contends that if meals can be
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1 monitored and coordinated, positive change will
2 result for the homeless meal providers, the
3 church community, area residents and the
4 business that Columbia strives to promote. We
5 also recognize that these feedings have been
6 going on for a long period of time, so you just
7 can't say to established feeding groups, you
8 can't fee any more. So what we recommend is
9 that the city convene a feeding summit, for
10 lack of a different name, that -- do discuss --
11 to gather input from the community and work to
12 reach a consensus on these dates (ph). Now, we
13 think if you got people together, that there
14 are a lot of services that can be provided for
15 the homeless besides meals and that by the
16 providers and the church groups and other
17 groups working together, it would be possible
18 to look at whether or not it's clothing,
19 whether or not there's a way for money to be
20 donated for housing vouchers or whatever, that
21 there might be some creat- -- if you get people
22 together, they come up with creative ideas on
23 how to do this and this is basically what we
24 are suggesting. We also thing that lunchtime
25 meals should be served at six site locations
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1 and should only be served between a certain
2 time and this would help, so 11:30 to 1:00.
3 During the time when the server is operational
4 and you've heard that report, we suggest that
5 the Salvation Army will serve dinner at the
6 shelter and the fixed (ph) site dinner meal
7 will not operate. The dinner meal at the
8 winter shelter will be for winter guests only
9 and not open to the general public. We
10 recommend also to establish an indoor dinner
11 meal option for the time when the winter
12 shelter is not open. We encourage the city to
13 establish a position on meal provision that
14 utilizes some or all of these recommendations
15 and it forms (ph), according to city
16 regulations, as needed. I think our main
17 concern is if we get people that are involved
18 in this activity together, then as a whole then
19 we can work that out. Thank you so much and I
20 think Rick is following me, unless you have
21 questions.
22 MS. PLAUGH: Can we have just the total number of
23 any organization, I mean, just some -- how many
24 do we have? I have not concept ---
25 MS. COOPER: Um ---
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1 MR AKAIR: We have a total of about 53 of them.
2 MS. PLAUGH: That ---
3 MS. COOPER: Thank you. I would say 40 but
4 (inaudible) about 53 then.
5 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you Jaja. Thank you ---
7 MS. COOPER: Thank you very much.
8 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
9 MR. ROWE: Mr. Mayor, Council members, my name is
10 Rick Rowe. I live at 1324 Pulaski Street in
11 the Vista area. I'm also am a member of the
12 Arsenal Hill Neighborhood. It's been a real
13 pleasure to work with this group because
14 sitting down and talking around the table about
15 the issues with the people that actually deal
16 with them and then start talking about what
17 we're going to have to address in order to
18 bring some order out of, in some cases, chaos
19 of what's going on. I will say that in my 35
20 years, my job has not been necessarily working
21 with meals, it's taking care of the things that
22 meals create from human beings. I've worked in
23 both South Carolina and North Carolina and I
24 have done a lot of this work, but I'll just
25 share with you when the advisory committee
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1 began the work to address issues, it was very
2 evident that the subject matter was made up of
3 many different aspects of homelessness. It was
4 apparent, feeding, lodging, health services and
5 what to do about bodily functions as well as
6 how to assist in cleaning of clothing and
7 personal articles was very high on the list.
8 The subcommittee worked with, at the time,
9 Assistant Chief and now Interim Chief Ruben
10 Santiago, to obtain information on what kind of
11 devices were available and some idea of the
12 costs. And this is data from the private
13 sector as well as trying to find if there are
14 things maybe through military surplus that we
15 could utilize in Columbia. There are equipment
16 and plumbing fixtures currently on the market,
17 can be used for such purposes. And they --
18 some are very expensive. We began to look at
19 where we could locate such fixtures, and the
20 most important component to a complicated
21 puzzle is how do you keep them operating and
22 not allow them to become an eyesore in a
23 location for the criminal elements, i.e.,
24 prostitution, theft, as well as for
25 malingerers. After some discussion with
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1 different groups, it was noted the City of
2 Columbia has facilities in the parks, garages
3 and police stations located in the downtown
4 area. In Columbia, it is almost impossible for
5 the homeless population to access a public
6 restroom in the parks or parking garages or
7 other public facilities after 7:00 p.m. at
8 night. Even though they are public, they are
9 closed and unavailable, which creates the
10 situation of people urinating and defecating
11 behind buildings, bushes, or wherever a
12 location can be found with privacy. This is a
13 case unless a business owner or manager allows
14 a person to utilize bathroom facilities at an
15 office or business within the city. The
16 homeless individual is on their own and must
17 choose a site convenient for their needs. That
18 can be anywhere, as we all know, and only too
19 well for some of us. It is apparent we have
20 adequate feeding sites and more than enough
21 churches, non-profits and individuals who want
22 to feed the homeless population. There's no
23 reason for the homeless to go hungry in
24 Columbia, South Carolina. You can see from the
25 GIS mapping that we have compiled, with the
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1 assistance of the Columbia Department of Public
2 Works, where some of these sites happen to be
3 located. The homeless person has nowhere to go
4 after 7:00 p.m. to relieve their body
5 functions, and they are limited on availability
6 even in daylight hours. Individuals working
7 through church groups and homeless-oriented
8 organizations want to feed and clothe, but no
9 particular organization or corporate body wants
10 to address disposal of bodily fluids and assist
11 in establishing laundry facilities. Another
12 part of the subcommittee work has been to visit
13 other cities that keep up and that are coming
14 up with these kinds of -- and keep coming up in
15 these kinds of conversation. What about
16 Asheville, North Carolina? What about
17 Savannah, Georgia? I took the time and made
18 the effort to go to these two cities and delve
19 into conversations and dialogue with
20 volunteers, city, county and homeless authority
21 staff members. Both Asheville and Savannah has
22 homeless authorities, established by the state
23 legislature for the cities to deal with this
24 kind of issue. What I found was a unified and
25 coordinated effort on the part of the authority
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1 to get their homeless initiatives consolidated
2 and (inaudible) efforts. In neither Asheville
3 nor Savannah did I find the city owning shelter
4 facilities. I was counseled on how
5 coordination was a key word and diversification
6 was a way to provide services, and this allowed
7 additional steps to be taken to keep services
8 throughout the community. Case management was
9 a single effort that guaranteed success in both
10 cities. Case management should not and cannot
11 stop with the homeless population. So the
12 recommendations, what are they? Work with the
13 City of Columbia officials and utilize what
14 sanitary facilities are in place in the parks,
15 parking buildings and other public areas. Make
16 the toilet facilities available at specific
17 hours, security and maintenance. Work to make
18 these sites known to those in the homeless
19 community. Publicize the hours and make the
20 location known to tourists, residents and the
21 homeless. Initiate a security program where
22 monitoring takes place 24/7 and action is taken
23 to keep safety and public welfare in mind.
24 What I have learned is coordination and a
25 strategic plan can make a lot of difference in
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1 the community. It creates tremendous problems
2 when you have no key individual to coordinate
3 and no oversight by a knowledgeable governing
4 organization to see that uniformity across the
5 spectrum is carried out in all of the homeless
6 services. Thank you for allowing us to make
7 this presentation. It's been certainly a -- an
8 experience that has caused a great deal of
9 illumination in my life about different ways of
10 doing things. But I think in this particular
11 area, it also became very apparent we do have
12 some things available if we looked at it in a
13 different way and managed it in a different
14 way. We could still provide the services and
15 not spend additional money in the way of
16 equipment to do it. Because the equipment is
17 expensive and the maintenance becomes an
18 absolute nightmare when you don't have an
19 organized group to handle it. Thank you.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Very, very (inaudible). Thank you
21 , Mr. Rowe.
22 MR. ROWE: Nancy?
23 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Mayor and Council, you have our
24 report. My mother always used to say that good
25 things come in small packages. It is just 13
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1 pages long, but it's a good, concise plan, with
2 action items. It has listed what the city can
3 and should do. I think it's important at this
4 point to say that we are not part of Mr.
5 Runyan's Carolina (sic) Cares Plan and Woody's
6 purpose was not to criticize or critique that
7 plan. At I said in the beginning, Mr. Gantt
8 asked for recommendations in regards to the
9 homeless problem in the downtown area,
10 particularly in the areas where the city was
11 spending money. You may have been surprised to
12 read in here that we weren't to make effective
13 change. We are not proposing more facilities.
14 We are proposing phasing out the winter
15 shelter. We are saying that a Calhoun Street
16 corridor and the city-wide homeless feeding
17 programs have become a problem for the city for
18 its businesses and its neighborhoods. And we
19 have made caring and cost-effective
20 recommendations to address those problems. And
21 we talk a bit on the issue of public restrooms.
22 The committee has also agreed that the problems
23 of releasing prisoners on the streets and
24 increasing numbers of persons on the street
25 with mental issues, mental health issues, are
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1 issues we still need to address. In February
2 of 1981, I was one of a group of 50 people who
3 met at Washington Street United Methodist
4 Church to talk about the homeless problem.
5 Charleston Mayor Joe Riley, newly elected at
6 that time, told us that as Columbia would grow,
7 so would the homeless numbers. The recent HUD
8 survey verified this fact. But what I didn't
9 realize on that day over 30 years ago is that
10 homelessness in major metropolitan cities will
11 never end. How we address the issue will be a
12 reflection of our compassion to those less
13 fortunate, as well as the determination to make
14 our city a quality place to live for all. The
15 City of Columbia must take the lead for the
16 region. With shrinking tax dollars and limited
17 government grants coming our way, we must seek
18 solutions that are unique to our city. We
19 worked on this report for just six months.
20 Some things we've already made happen. If we
21 continue to succeed at making the small
22 accomplishments happen, it will yield big
23 results. On behalf of the committee, we thank
24 you for the opportunity to present our
25 recommendations. I personally -- it's just
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1 been a real pleasure to work with all of them.
2 Could everybody on the committee stand up,
3 there's 20 of you, if wouldn't mind standing
4 up?
5 (Applause.)
6 MS. STOUDEMIRE: The committee -- the committee is
7 here to serve the mayor and City Council from
8 this point forward. With your approval, we
9 would like to continue to serve in this
10 capacity and look forward to your next set of
11 instructions. Thank you very much and good
12 night.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you very much. Ms. Devine?
14 MS. DEVINE: Well, I just wanted to say, Steve Gantt
15 was here earlier to be with the committee for
16 their presentation. But, of course, the long
17 night caused him to go, so I did want everyone
18 to know that he was here and was prepared to
19 answer any questions regarding that the
20 committee was duly instituted at the direction
21 of Council through Steve Gantt to work on these
22 issues. But I did have a question at the end.
23 We don't want any criticism of other plans but
24 it seems like, based on what you said, there's
25 certain things that there could be some
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1 similarities or at least some areas of
2 agreement with the proposal that Councilman
3 Runyan -- specifically like the -- regulating
4 the feeding a little better, some other stuff.
5 Have you all thought -- looked at those things,
6 or you haven't done that yet?
7 MS. STOUDEMIRE: I think I could speak on behalf of
8 the committee and say that we really didn't go
9 into critiquing that. His plan has established
10 six goals. They're great goals. I mean,
11 taking care of the homeless, I think we can all
12 agree on those goals. The problem that we're
13 seeing is the action items that go along with
14 those goals. That's kind of what we were kind
15 of focusing on as you wanted -- we felt that
16 you wanted to know what can you do? We have
17 given you a shopping list to start with.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's a great list.
19 MS. DEVINE: Right.
20 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Yeah. And I mean, you know, I'm
21 not -- and I'm, you know, I have worked with
22 Mr. Runyan, I have no criticism of the plan.
23 But what I'm just saying is, we tackled four
24 issues that we felt in October needed to some
25 direction and guidance. I work on Calhoun
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1 Street, and it -- it's a problem. I mean, you
2 know, it's a problem that we have vacant lots,
3 I mean, so it was a great -- it was a great
4 group to work together. I think that we sat
5 down and say, okay, how do we solve those
6 problems. Small solutions and big solutions.
7 And so, you know, I mean, I don't -- I don't
8 think any of us disagree with the goals. I
9 think that some of the ways that we're going to
10 do this.
11 MS. DEVINE: I'm not asking for just areas ---
12 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Yeah.
13 MS. DEVINE: --- of disagreement. But I think it's
14 easier to look at commonalities, and it seems
15 like from reading your plan and hearing his,
16 there might be some easy commonalities that
17 could start with discussion. So, I was just
18 kind of wandering along ---
19 MS. STOUDEMIRE: And I wouldn't disagree with that
20 statement.
21 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
22 UNKNOWN MALE: All right.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Any other comments, questions for
24 the committee? Moe?
25 MR. BADDOURAH: And this is -- once again, I don't
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1 know whether the committee has witnessed or
2 experienced this but, families and single women
3 whose -- and I'm not --I'm not speaking of a
4 specific situation but a family -- a single
5 female, a homeless single female is having a
6 baby with another homeless person, is that
7 something that you witness a lot or you've
8 dealt with, or you witness? What, I mean, is
9 that one just one isolated incident? Because
10 is that something that we need to look at in
11 the -- in the next year or so? Is that
12 something -- I mean, I ---
13 MS. STOUDEMIRE: (Inaudible) at 11:00 o'clock at
14 night, but no people know here in this room.
15 I work for the Columbia Housing Authority. We
16 have close to 6,000 units of housing that we're
17 at right now. We have over 7,000 families that
18 are on our waiting list.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Waiting list.
20 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Okay. So those are the starting
21 numbers. So I get the phone calls all along.
22 But I can tell you, with the Housing First
23 number, we started serving four families this
24 year. We're very excited because the first one
25 that we just did this past month, we took a man
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1 that was living in Transitions. We took his
2 wife who was living at -- help me with the
3 shelter -- was living at another shelter ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Hannah House.
5 MS. STOUDEMIRE: --- The two children were at --
6 what?
7 UNISON: Hannah House.
8 MS. STOUDEMIRE: It was (inaudible) Hannah House.
9 The two children were in DSS ---
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
11 MS. STOUDEMIRE: --- custody because they didn't
12 have housing. We've moved them all together.
13 They're all in one house, and they're starting
14 school next week out there on ---
15 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
16 MS. STOUDEMIRE: --- out in Columbia. So it's
17 working, you know what I mean?
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's right (ph).
19 MS. STOUDEMIRE: It may not be as fast as we want
20 but, you know what? Finally I've got something
21 for families that we can offer. And, you know,
22 so we've got a long way to go, I'd be the first
23 to admit. And I get a lot of phone calls a
24 day. But at least we're making some success.
25 MR. BADDOURAH: Okay.
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1 MS. STOUDEMIRE: Okay.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Thank you. Mr. Runyan?
3 MR. RUNYAN: Are we ready?
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Jaja, we're going to take public
6 comment in a second (inaudible) so -- and keep
7 notes. It'll be a lot of notes to take, I know
8 that.
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Um ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Any luck, we'll do this and have --
11 we're gonna have to, I think -- let's move
12 this, let's move through the public time.
13 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And this might -- our early
15 discussion, we had a good number of people that
16 actually -- it's not -- there's a lot of people
17 here who are listening as week or (inaudible)
18 everybody doesn't -- has not signed up to
19 speak. If you do want to speak, let's make
20 sure you get on the list (inaudible) to speak.
21 But I want to thank the committee as well.
22 (Inaudible) some very good actionable documents
23 that speaks to some of the short-term issues,
24 but definitely speaks on long-term issues. And
25 I would be very interested in deciding that
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1 they continue to serve in an advisory capacity.
2 I think there's probably, (inaudible) up here
3 in that regard ---
4 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
5 MR. RUNYAN: All right. I'm on?
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, you're are.
7 MR. RUNYAN: Thank you. And I'm sorry, it's just
8 now 11:00 o'clock and we're just getting
9 started on this. I will make this as quick as
10 possible. Obviously there's been a lot of
11 interest around this, and a lot of emotion
12 around this recently. Thank you, Mr. LeBlanc,
13 on Sunday for that great headline. It has
14 gotten folks quite bemused about some of what
15 is actually in this. And Cliff will remind me,
16 that he doesn't write the headlines, he just
17 writes the story. But I will give him that
18 editorial notice. So, let's just -- let's go
19 through this, and let me just very quickly tee
20 up and tell you what this is. This is a
21 response plan for how do we address the acute
22 emergency that is on our streets right now.
23 We've heard from the business community very,
24 very loudly that they are concerned that the
25 un-responded to poverty, particularly downtown,
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1 is having a very adverse impact on the commerce
2 community in this city. And so, as a policy-
3 maker, I think it is our job to look at these
4 issues and respond to them in a thoughtful and
5 -- way and it needs to be a very resource-
6 intensive manner. And that's what this is. It
7 is a plan, a short-term, designed to bridge us
8 through the crisis that we're facing right now
9 to open up a window of opportunity for
10 collaboration. You heard Councilwoman Devine
11 mention that a minute ago, and I think that is
12 where we have to head. I will tell you all
13 that that's been my goal all along. That's why
14 we had all the input sessions. That's why, in
15 the Columbia Cares plan, which is distinct from
16 this - in the Columbia Cares plan, the
17 providers, every single one of them was
18 included in the response, and it's been -- the
19 goal has always been to be collaborative. And
20 so that's what I hope that this will afford us
21 as we move forward. So let me just go through
22 this quickly. And I'll ask the clerk to put
23 this up on the front page of the city's web
24 site as well so that anybody who wants to see
25 it can see it. All right. Okay, somebody's
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1 going to have to do this quickly for me.
2 (Inaudible.) So the issue we're all pretty
3 familiar with, a high concentration of
4 homeless, and I would say un-responded to
5 homeless poverty, in the City of Columbia, is
6 proportionately downtown. And businesses,
7 neighborhoods and the homeless are suffering
8 under the weight of this un-responded to
9 poverty. And we're now beginning to see, or
10 have been seeing, a very visibly and vocal
11 voicing of frustration of the business
12 community. So these are some quotes from some
13 folks. You may be familiar with a couple of
14 them, but I actually want to read these so that
15 we know that this is really a real problem.
16 This is not something that's made up. Fred
17 Martin, in his letter to City Council, also was
18 reported on by The State newspaper I believe.
19 We are now experiencing an environment where
20 our staff members and our guests no longer feel
21 safe even within the confines of our building.
22 This nexus of perception and reality makes it
23 virtually impossible for us, or anybody, to
24 create a sustainable business model. I urge
25 you to move quickly to garner results.
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1 (Inaudible.) Dana Arnold, president of the
2 Arnold Family Companies. I am very concerned
3 that Columbia's downtown has become a magnet
4 for homeless people. The environment is not
5 only making our employees, tenants and
6 residents feel uncomfortable, but also
7 hindering our ability to attract new residents
8 and businesses to downtown. I would like to
9 see both City Council and the people of the
10 Midlands put all differences aside and do what
11 is best for the greater good of the community.
12 Eric Bland, an attorney whose office is on the
13 corner of Calhoun and Bull Street. I want my
14 employees and clients to feel secure when they
15 work in and visit our business. The homeless
16 deserve to be treated with respect but in
17 return they have to treat our city, our
18 properties, our businesses and our residents
19 with the same degree of respect. The history
20 of the homeless situation in our city is filled
21 with empty promises, confusing rhetoric and
22 lack of accountability. I will be there every
23 step of the way to support this most worthy
24 plan. Darryl Williams, a resident of the Vista
25 neighborhood. I know it is a serious and
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1 complicated and emotional issue, and we both
2 know that the current approaches are not
3 working. The fact that some individuals are
4 helped by current approaches is not
5 justification for failure to develop and
6 implement better strategies, following the
7 examples of cities that have had success. The
8 current president of the Greek church. The
9 downtown business district is at a crossroads.
10 Economic development is an important issue for
11 the city. A prosperous, vibrant city needs a
12 prosperous, vibrant downtown area that is
13 perceived as having an environment that is safe
14 for all -- families, women and children. The
15 problems are increasing and becoming more
16 volatile. A serious incident could occur at
17 any time with tragic repercussions. The future
18 success of the city depends on what action the
19 council takes now. Then there's a Paradise
20 Ice, one of our boutique small businesses on
21 Main Street, in the resurgent 1600 block where
22 Mast General is located. As small business
23 owners on Main Street, we see first hand how
24 the homeless crisis is affecting the city.
25 Unfortunately it seems the people who make
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1 their living off of caring for the homeless are
2 the ones making all the noise at these
3 meetings.
4 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
5 MR. RUNYAN: Tom Prioreschi, Capital Places. I
6 believe that this recent surge in business
7 announcements and excitement can be stifled by
8 the perceptions and fears of people who work,
9 live or visit the downtown if we do not do
10 something now. We are at a crossroads of
11 successful economic development or returning
12 the city center to empty retail spaces. As the
13 saying goes, if we keep doing the same things
14 we will keep getting the same results. And
15 then this is the final one. There is currently
16 a high concentration of homelessness in the
17 City of Columbia, with the most heavily
18 concentrated areas being in the downtown
19 district. As a result, the growth of economic
20 development is being hindered, and business
21 owners are beginning to look elsewhere to set
22 up shop. And that is the Greater Columbia
23 Chamber of Commerce. And I included these
24 quotes because they take a shot at everybody,
25 all of us, city leaders, providers, the
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1 homeless, everybody. And think if we're going
2 to address this problem and we're going to
3 address it quickly, we've got to do it
4 transparently and honestly. And we've got to
5 own where there may be deficiencies in all of
6 our responses. And this is the community
7 perception of what's going on. Whether we
8 agree it's accurate or not, this is the
9 perception. So, here's what we're dealing
10 with. We've got two issues, and we've got to
11 respond to both. And so let's try to
12 compartmentalize these two issues. We've got,
13 number one, this is -- this was what Columbia
14 Cares was all about, the need for a long-term
15 sustainable response to an ongoing problem so
16 the City of Columbia never finds itself here
17 again. That's number one. Compartment number
18 two is that we have an acute emergency in the
19 heart of the city right now. And it's having
20 a very detrimental impact on the commerce
21 community, our downtown neighborhoods and the
22 perception of safety and quality of life in the
23 city. So, long-term response, here's what I
24 propose, is that we provide four months for
25 those who so desire, to craft plans for meeting
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1 the six goals set forth by the community
2 through the community input sessions held
3 earlier in 2013. And those goals have been
4 roundly endorsed by pretty much every corner of
5 the community at this point, from the Chamber
6 of Commerce all the way down to -- we've now
7 heard the providers also saying that they
8 concur with the goals. The question is how do
9 you execute on the goals. Any plans that we
10 bring forward need to be very detailed, and
11 that's something great we started to see
12 tonight. Some benchmarks, timing, costs,
13 performance measures, accountability protocols,
14 what's the sustainability plan, time line for
15 unwinding city investments and homeless
16 services, et cetera. Number two, second
17 bucket, is we must provide immediate relief to
18 what's going on downtown right now, to the
19 crisis that's on our streets. If we don't
20 address the youth problem right now, it may
21 have potentially disastrous impacts on the
22 commerce community in Columbia. And that's the
23 frustration we're hearing from people. So what
24 do we have to facilitate an emergency response?
25 So what I wanted to do is a basic inventory of
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1 what we have. We've got half a million dollars
2 that's sitting -- that's been allocated for
3 emergency shelter operation this winter. We've
4 got that facility that's sitting there. We've
5 got our police force, which is on the streets.
6 We've got our community partners. We have a
7 public information office that can promote a
8 protocol of response. We've got various
9 organizations that can help promote protocol.
10 We've got churches and volunteer organizations
11 and all these folks that we heard about a
12 little bit earlier tonight, who are doing all
13 these great things. And then we've got all
14 these great service providers that we have in
15 this city that are already doing a lot of good
16 work for folks. And this is what I'm putting
17 forth. A seven-month emergency response to be
18 supplanted by a permanent response at the end
19 of the emergency shelter season starting in
20 April 2014. This is key. A permanent response
21 plan cannot be centered at the emergency
22 shelter site or in the downtown business
23 district. This is the beginning of moving the
24 response to poverty out of the urban core and
25 out of the central business district in
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1 Columbia. So I propose that we run the
2 emergency shelter starting on September 1st,
3 24/7. That represents only two additional
4 months of operation. We're already slated to
5 run it from November to March, so it's not
6 really that big of a jump, it's just an
7 addition of 60 days. I asked staff ten months
8 ago to estimate what it would cost to run the
9 shelter 24/7, and they gave me an annual number
10 so I backed it down to seven months, and the
11 number that we had is approximately $1.7
12 million is what it would -- will take. As I
13 mentioned earlier, we only have half a million
14 that's been budgeted for the emergency
15 response. We've got a shortfall of $1.2
16 million, so the question becomes how do you
17 cover your shortfall. Last winter, Christ
18 Central Ministry ran our winter shelter for us.
19 Nobody else did it on the requested proposals,
20 and so the city engaged them at the last minute
21 to come operate the facility. And they are
22 willing to come to the table with the City of
23 Columbia to help us move past this emergency
24 situation that we're in. And arguably the
25 largest provider in the State of South Carolina
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1 with 92 facilities around the state and the
2 ability to help reconnect people with their
3 communities and to bring resource and expertise
4 to bear on this city and help this city move
5 beyond where we are. And they are willing to
6 work with us to help us cover the $1.2 million
7 hole that we have between staff estimate to run
8 the facility and the 500,000, that we have.
9 And I will say that's a -- that's a pretty
10 significant gift to the taxpayers of this city.
11 What do you need to execute this? You need
12 some transport vans. Foot traffic -- we had
13 meetings, and foot traffic has been a big
14 concern for neighborhoods, so you don't want
15 people walking in and out of the winter shelter
16 area. So we would need three transport vans to
17 move clients through the city so that they are
18 not walking out or in the shelter facility. A
19 dedicated telephone number that is disseminated
20 through the response protocol so that everyone
21 knows this is the number you call when you have
22 a problem. Portable HVAC in the kitchen down
23 at the winter shelter site. And the reason I
24 have portable in here is that I think it's very
25 important that we show people that this
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1 literally is a temporary solution, this is not
2 something that -- I don't want us to get any
3 permanent infrastructure additions at that
4 facility. We would need a large exterior tent
5 for our service providers and our volunteers.
6 Honestly, we (inaudible) partner with service
7 providers and that's something we did last
8 winter was connecting people at the shelter
9 very rapidly with service providers so that
10 they got to where -- the help they needed very
11 quickly and efficiently. Perhaps that was one
12 of the reasons that we never did hit our
13 capacity last year. Also located at Williams
14 and Laurel Street to make sure that we don't
15 have foot traffic coming out of that facility
16 and encroaching upon adjoining properties or up
17 through adjoining neighborhoods, such as the
18 Arsenal Hill neighborhood. Foot -- Downtown
19 Business Improvement District did and City
20 Center Partnership and the Chamber of Commerce
21 have requested foot patrol officers downtown,
22 in the bid. And the numbers, a couple of -- I
23 can't -- it's 11:30 now I think, I'm tired
24 (inaudible). I think Charleston has 22
25 officers that patrol downtown Charleston, and
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1 Greenville has something like 15 or 16, 14, I'm
2 not sure, and that count is probably similar
3 (inaudible). And they have a fair number, City
4 Center Partnership and the Chamber has
5 requested nine in three-man rotations,
6 patrolling downtown to increase the visibility
7 and safety of the downtown area. I would also
8 propose an oversight committee. Again,
9 something that we did last year at the winter
10 shelter ---
11 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
12 MR. RUNYAN: --- it was great. We had minutes taken
13 in those meetings. They were very transparent.
14 The neighborhoods came together. Everything
15 was open, it was an open book. Everyone was
16 engaged in the process. I would propose that
17 the city clerk's office voice record those
18 meetings and that detailed minutes are taken by
19 the clerk's office so that any concerns are
20 fully registered. We want to make sure that
21 all the risk and impacts are quantified and
22 mitigated efficiently, effectively and
23 importantly, transparently in that process.
24 And I would suggest that that needs to be
25 comprised of independent representatives of
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1 impacted constituent groups. And some of these
2 particular names are posted. They've agreed to
3 serve, and I think we would need some other
4 representatives as well from our surrounding
5 areas. I know there have been some folks from
6 Tony Hawkins Properties nearby that expressed
7 some interest in serving as well. Mr. LeBlanc,
8 this is your slide. We would enforce existing
9 ordinances once provision for those in need is
10 available. This is very important, that's why
11 it's in all caps and italics. No person will
12 be subject to any law in a manner that is
13 different from any other citizen. All public
14 feedings relocated to the emergency shelter
15 site. Ex-prisoners delivered to the city
16 limits of Columbia also released via intake at
17 the emergency shelter site during predetermined
18 hours. We would develop and receive proposals
19 for a long-term expected time line, receive
20 proposal for a long-term response the first of
21 January 2014. Begin scaling into full
22 implementation April 1st. And then I would
23 propose that we prepare the emergency shelter
24 parcel for sale. This is that actual aerial of
25 that emergency shelter site. Our water plant
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1 is to the east of those two buildings. It is
2 a commercially valuable piece of property. We
3 have had conversations with three developers on
4 it. It's very visible when you come in off the
5 interstate with some opening up of some views
6 right there. A beautiful park-like area
7 overlooking the Columbia Canal and the water --
8 the detention ponds behind it actually makes it
9 a quite beautiful piece of property. And our
10 (inaudible) buildings can be anywhere, I mean,
11 no reason that they should be on probably one
12 of the most valuable pieces of real estate we
13 have in the city. So here's the time line and
14 how it really (inaudible). But this is
15 essentially walking through visually exactly
16 what we're talking about. September 1st, we
17 launch the shelter 24/7. You make provision
18 for folks and you begin to move folks to where
19 the help is. You use that period of response
20 (inaudible) response if you need to engage
21 stakeholders. The Chamber of Commerce has
22 agreed to, at my request, to facilitate a group
23 to help coalesce everyone around a shared
24 vision for how we move forward collective, and
25 that means all of us -- that means providers,
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1 that means our churches, that means the city
2 and its neighbors, that means the homeless,
3 that means everybody. So how do we move
4 forward together, and to vet and stress test
5 what's coming out of that, but to bring all the
6 best ideas to the table. They would be very
7 independent and very focused on how do we
8 provide for folks and preserve commerce in this
9 city. I spoke to Mr. Bennett earlier tonight
10 and, of course, asked him if he would like to
11 participate in that. I think that would be
12 wonderful. And then are others as well that we
13 would like to participate in that particular
14 group as well. If there were those who didn't
15 want to participate in that group, that's their
16 prerogative. If we open this up, if you've go
17 the best ideas for our city, if you -- if you
18 wanna help us achieve and move beyond the
19 problems where we are today, then by golly, we
20 want you to and we want to hear what your ideas
21 are. So there's nothing that precludes anyone
22 else from putting together their own proposal
23 and bringing it forth. I'm trying to read this
24 third (inaudible). Right, January to March is
25 the -- coming to the latter half of the
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1 emergency shelter season, it would be as we
2 begin to move forward and then April 1st we
3 begin scaling into a long-term response. And
4 that is what I am proposing. It is ambitious,
5 as Mr. LeBlanc, I believe, called it brack
6 (ph), it is more or less budget neutral, it
7 stayed within the confines of the money that we
8 had allocated. It leverages the goodwill of
9 our community partners who want to help this
10 city move beyond where we are. And so, I will
11 -- I will stop talking and ask for questions
12 and comments at this time.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Ms. Devine? And let me have
14 questions, but I really want to get ---
15 MS. DEVINE: Yeah, and I definitely do to. Those --
16 they made some comment on some of my questions.
17 A couple things. Mr. Runyan -- well, first of
18 all, Ms. Wilson, one of the things I've -- a
19 conversation I had with you, September 1st is
20 two weeks away. Would staff be prepared if
21 Council did this feasibly to open September
22 1st?
23 MS. WILSON: Ms. Devine, I can't answer that. This
24 is the first time -- I've certainly talked with
25 Mr. Runyan, and he's exactly right, we probably
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1 (inaudible) shared what we feel are to be
2 accurate numbers on running the shelter.
3 (Inaudible) and we actually have numbers to do
4 it on a seven month period 24/7. I would like
5 to (inaudible) details about what
6 contributions, fiscally and (inaudible) wise,
7 what we can take then (ph) and we (inaudible)
8 conversations, taking those that are
9 (inaudible) Robert Anderson, the -- you know,
10 I've told him to go ahead and look at what we
11 would need to do to implement September 1 and
12 if (inaudible) would that be, you know -- I'm
13 just saying this, I'd have to take that back,
14 look at it and get it back ---
15 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible) ---
16 MS. WILSON: I mean, I think we're prepared to more
17 forward in that direction.
18 MR. RUNYAN: If I can comment. Last year, I
19 believe, we had 10 days to get the winter
20 shelter open when the RFPs were not responded
21 to, find anyone else in the city, approached
22 Christ Central and asked (inaudible). You can
23 tell -- look back at how many days it was, but
24 if I recall, it was 10 days that they went from
25 zero to a hundred to get it up and running,
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1 fully operational.
2 MS. WILSON: And I think we've got it (inaudible),
3 you know, that goes with the HP&P (ph) and that
4 type of thing but, you know, I think we're
5 already starting to look at ...
6 MS. DEVINE: So if the cost needs balancing (ph) of
7 it, Mr. Runyan, does that include, I mean, kind
8 of looking at what you're suggesting, sounds
9 like there would be additional policing which
10 I would assume requires overtime for our
11 officers -- I mean, I know that you and I have
12 kind of discussed the potential of arrests and
13 certainly, that's not necessarily the desire
14 but I'm just kind of wondering, the potential
15 of arrests and whether or not the (inaudible)
16 costs have been figured in there. And then,
17 just wonder what additional costs would be
18 running the shelter during the day. I know I
19 visited the shelter last year and there were
20 certain people -- and Jimmy, when you come
21 speak, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But if
22 they work at night they were allowed to be
23 there during the day, or certain people who
24 might have been ill. So I think we still had
25 costs of running it during the day so I'm just
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1 wondering it -- with it now designed to be
2 24/7, are there a lot of additional costs to
3 that?
4 MS. WILSON: I mean, there's electricity obviously
5 and then we've got to look at -- again, I
6 think, I gotta understand what your -- from the
7 maintenance and service contract standpoint,
8 things that the city would have ---
9 MS. DEVINE: So you can't really say tonight?
10 MS. WILSON: --- that's just -- no. Okay, I mean,
11 I think we're gonna have to sit down with this
12 information and then say, in taking what we
13 have, we look at what we know our numbers to
14 be, but I think we have sit down with Mr.
15 Jones, I mean, and Jimmy -- that discussion,
16 and staff has already begun with him. But, I
17 mean, I'd -- we'd have to (inaudible) ---
18 MS. DEVINE: I would like to, especially with the
19 police and any anticipated over time, I'd like
20 to know that because that can be an exorbitant
21 cost. But I would like to know that. And then
22 two more, Mr. Runyan, you talked about the
23 long-range committee and other -- the oversight
24 committee, you didn't have that, but I'm
25 wondering if that oversight committee is you --
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1 as you eluded to, that oversight committee the
2 last three of four years has worked pretty
3 well.
4 MR. RUNYAN: Yes.
5 MS. DEVINE: Is the current oversight committee
6 anticipated to be part of that group as well?
7 MR. RUNYAN: I think that -- that's fine. I mean,
8 I know that's fine and I would add probably a
9 couple of other folks, you know, the Canalside
10 might have a participant. The Beach Company
11 residents (ph) might have a participant. I
12 think Russell (ph) (inaudible) would like to
13 have a participant. And I think (inaudible)
14 would like to have a participant as well on
15 that since they are adjoining property.
16 MS. DEVINE: Okay. And then my last one,
17 (inaudible) certain people speak but ask to
18 confirm this as well, I think the 24 hour
19 shelter sounds nice but as Mr. Bolton said --
20 when he was saying, we don't even have the
21 shelter running at full capacity now at night.
22 And I'm just wondering, do we have any kind of
23 data to, you know, allow us to believe that
24 people will want to stay in the shelter,
25 especially, you know, if you think about it,
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1 the temperature is still nice outside during
2 the day. What makes you think that they wanna
3 stay? And I'd love to hear from service
4 providers or any homeless people here if they
5 -- whether or not that is a desire. And if
6 it's not, I guess my concern is, I mean,
7 certainly if people wanna leave, they can do --
8 we can't stop them from leaving. And a lot of
9 people have talked about, well, getting them
10 off the street. I'm just wondering if having
11 the 24 hour shelter realistic in actually
12 getting people not on the street if it's nice
13 and warm -- you can make them stay at the
14 building. So, I don't know if, Mr. Runyan, if
15 you want to address that or other folks, but
16 I'm just kind of wondering if we invest in the
17 24/7 shelter, do we have a realistic
18 expectation that there will be need for that
19 24/7 shelter?
20 MR. RUNYAN: Well, it -- and I can defer to folks
21 that spend more time -- and I spent a little
22 bit of time talking to folks on the streets but
23 what I'm hearing from folks is that in this
24 rainy season with 100 degree heat and mosquitos
25 the size of softballs, that it's not
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1 particularly pleasant out there and that there
2 are a lot folks looking for relief. It's not
3 a pleasant existence on the streets of Columbia
4 at all. There will be, as we've always
5 acknowledged, and we've had folks who have
6 lived on the streets now for decades and that's
7 all they know. And there will probably have to
8 be a tough love component to this where we're
9 not going to allow urban camping, we're not
10 going to allow public drunkenness, we're not
11 going to allow panhandling, we're not going to
12 allow public urination and defecation. If
13 we're making provision for folks, then they're
14 gonna have to be accountable for their behavior
15 because we've got provision and help for them.
16 And that's what this is all about. This is not
17 punitive, this is about making provision and
18 helping people so that they can get off the
19 street. I have no doubt that there will be a
20 few folks who are going to be challenging, and
21 there's no doubt about that. We know that
22 going in. But I believe that we -- we've got
23 to do something to help bring relief to this
24 business community. Now, will every single
25 person run down there on day one, I don't know.
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1 I really don't know. I anticipate that there
2 would be increased significant migration, but
3 I can't -- I can't tell you without absolute
4 certainty that that'll be the case.
5 MS. DEVINE: Thank you.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Thanks. Let's have
7 some public comment. I'm sorry, Mr. Davis, did
8 you have some ---
9 MR. DAVIS: No. No, I'll walk away. I'm sorry.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. I'm going to call Tom
11 Turnipseed and then Mr. Fred Martin, and we're
12 going to work our way through this list and
13 give everyone a chance to speak.
14 MR. TURNIPSEED: If I can wake up a little to talk.
15 I tell you, I am sleepy, you all. I commend
16 the editorial in The State for you, Mr.
17 Cameron, this morning, Mr. Runyan, have you
18 read it yet?
19 MR. RUNYAN: I -- you know what ---
20 MR. TURNIPSEED: You need to read it ---
21 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. TURNIPSEED: You really, really, really do. And
23 the other thing I'd like to know is why in the
24 world do -- does the prison system bring people
25 -- when they don't have anybody to pick them up
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1 at the prison, why do they bring them to
2 Columbia? Why don't they take them back to the
3 community where they came from? I mean, it's,
4 you know, it -- why not? You know what? You
5 know, I can't understand that. Why don't you
6 all get in touch with your, you know, folks in
7 the government, you know, from the US
8 Government and the senators and all, you know,
9 and the House of Representatives? Just think
10 about it. You know, why do they dump them --
11 folks in Columbia? I mean, it's just -- it
12 doesn't make any sense to me, not at all. And
13 Judy and I, my wife, we work with homeless
14 people, hands on, feeding and everything else
15 for like 13, 14 years now. And we've worked
16 for four different groups. We work -- we've
17 worked at the winter shelter, we've got a group
18 called Homeless Helping Homeless, we've worked
19 at Transitions, we've, you know, been sponsors
20 there. And let's see, where else? Every one
21 that's ---
22 UNISON: Fear Not Bombs.
23 MR. TURNIPSEED: Food Not Bombs, yeah. You all try
24 to do away with (inaudible) and go to
25 (inaudible).
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1 (Laughter.)
2 MR. TURNIPSEED: And I'm gonna tell you, it's the
3 best meal they get all week and they tell you
4 that. It's a group of people from all walks of
5 life. We've got, you know, like Church of God,
6 the Korean Presbyterians, both churches,
7 Methodist, the Catholics, Jewish. We even had
8 a couple of Hooters girls 'til Judy ran them
9 off.
10 (Laughter.)
11 MR. TURNIPSEED: But it's just totally -- everybody
12 brings a different kind of food. I just like
13 that cooking, they like me to cook greens,
14 which I (inaudible). But anyway, you all, the
15 homeless people are good folks and I don't --
16 I get so sick and tired of people putting them
17 down. So many of them are Veterans, they've
18 got post-traumatic stress disorder (inaudible)
19 around all that killing. Either, you know,
20 doing it or watching it done and, you know, if
21 you keep them around killing like that, if you
22 don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, you
23 know, you ought to almost because it should
24 bother people, that kind of killing to me. Of
25 course, I'm an anti-war type person anyway.
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1 But anyway, that's -- I don't wanna go on and
2 on about it ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
4 MR. TURNIPSEED: --- you know, we got a little
5 miffed about some of the stuff you had in your
6 deal about putting them out. If they can't
7 work and that's (inaudible) well enough, we're
8 going send them out to the camp somewhere. And
9 you know, that's -- that was done before in
10 other countries. It -- you know, it's just --
11 it sounds like, you know, Austria (ph) or
12 somewhere. It definitely (ph) does.
13 (Applause.)
14 MR. TURNIPSEED: It really does. (Inaudible) Mr.
15 Runyan?
16 MR. RUNYAN: I've been blessed by the Lord never to
17 be poor ---
18 MR. TURNIPSEED: Yeah, wonderful, that's great. Me
19 too. Me too. Well, just think about it, I
20 mean, it's hard to walk in somebody else's
21 shoes but they don't want to be homeless.
22 People don't want to be.
23 MR. RUNYAN: It's not a want ---
24 MR. TURNIPSEED: Many of them are very, very, very
25 ill, there's no question about it. And you
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1 need to go look at the editorial in The State
2 today.
3 MR. RUNYAN: I just pulled it up.
4 MR. TURNIPSEED: It's very, very good. And we own
5 a downtown business, they don't bother us.
6 We're right at Assembly and Washington Street.
7 You understand? And our library is wonderful,
8 you all. That is the true stretch.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. TURNIPSEED: Have you read the piece that the
11 director of the library wrote in their
12 publication about how much he welcomes the
13 Lord's homeless people?
14 MR. RUNYAN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
15 MR. TURNIPSEED: And they'll get in there and work
16 on those computers, and a lot of them are lot
17 smarter than some of -- some of us are, and me
18 in particular, because they -- that's what they
19 do. They get in there and they educate, you
20 know, and we need to just quit putting them
21 down so much. Like, you either do what we say
22 or we're gonna send you out to a camp
23 somewhere.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's getting close to midnight, Tom
25 ---
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1 MR. TURNIPSEED: Blah, blah ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
3 MR. TURNIPSEED: I can rant and rave ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You know, Tom ---
5 MR. TURNIPSEED: I love (ph) the advisory
6 committee's ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh yeah, (inaudible) stuff.
8 MR. TURNIPSEED: They were great.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Hooters girls and (inaudible) food,
10 Food Not Bombs (inaudible), I like that
11 (inaudible). Thank you.
12 MR. TURNIPSEED: We've got Eisenhower's quote up
13 there about ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah (ph).
15 MR. TURNIPSEED: --- military-industrial complex.
16 Yeah, I always talk about food so everybody
17 (inaudible) I don't want to get into
18 (inaudible).
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We're gonna -- thank you, Tom.
20 MR. TURNIPSEED: Senator (inaudible) ---
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, thank you, sir.
22 MR. TURNIPSEED: Wasn't that (inaudible) Cameron
23 (inaudible)?
24 (Laughter.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You know, Fred Martin. And right
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1 behind Mr. Martin, we've got Mims Cave Rust and
2 then Mel Jenkins.
3 MR. MARTIN: Homeless, good morning.
4 (Laughter.)
5 MR. MARTIN: Thank you, Mayor and City Council
6 members for providing this forum. I will try
7 to be brief. Oh, I have two things I would
8 like to try to get across. One is
9 clarification about Mast Store's stance and the
10 other is encouragement for this whole group of
11 folks. Mast Store was asked to come to
12 Columbia, to make an investment in a reemerging
13 downtown. This is what has happened in every
14 location that we're in. We signed on to be
15 partners with all of you, and all of you, to
16 serve the needs of the community. The history
17 of a general store is to serve the needs of the
18 community, all community, everyone included.
19 An organization, we embrace diversity of any
20 sort and we find that that embracement takes
21 people to another level. We get so much more
22 input and forward motion with our employee
23 owners because we do embrace whatever they
24 bring to the table. In this location in
25 Columbia, we knew that we were here earlier, we
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1 knew that there was a lot of infrastructure
2 that had to come back, and we've been very
3 patient with that. The letter that I, right or
4 wrong, sent to all of you, that became public
5 knowledge, was an outcry for us that we had
6 seen a completion of (inaudible) motion and the
7 concerns of safety. Community, the main street
8 is the heart and soul of a community, and that
9 has to be comfortable. Has to be comfortable
10 for the mayor's two little girls, it has to be
11 comfortable for my three children, it has to be
12 comfortable for all the residents, homeless,
13 above street residents and all the people that
14 work downtown. And that is our -- that is our
15 goal, is to take care of the needs of the
16 community. Now, that's where we stand. We've
17 got a lot of outreach programs within Mast, and
18 we're very proud that most of the people who
19 started with Mast over two years are still with
20 us and many of them are fully benefitted.
21 We're very excited about that. I think that
22 Columbia has more potential than anybody else
23 in this room because I've seen other
24 communities rise and get their downtowns back.
25 And I want to be encouraging that your downtown
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1 is getting there and it will -- it will thrive.
2 I've heard a lot of great things tonight, a
3 whole lot more about the mayor's position and
4 where it should be and shouldn't be than I'll
5 ever know but ---
6 (Laughter.)
7 MR. MARTIN: --- I drove here from the mountains of
8 North Carolina. I'm not a resident of
9 Columbia. Raised in Summerville, South
10 Carolina, but I am -- I have a three and a half
11 hour drive when I leave here this evening.
12 It's very important for me to be here to
13 encourage all of you to be diligent in working
14 with this whole community to find solutions.
15 It sounds like the city has heard that. It
16 sounds like the city has been working on this
17 for a long time. It sounds like there's a lot
18 of good (inaudible) from them and I love the
19 collaboration between the two ideas that I
20 heard tonight. And I thank you very much for
21 your support of us and for the partnership that
22 we share, and look forward to being a resource
23 in any way we can be. Thank you.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Fred. Thank you so
25 much.
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1 (Applause.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And Fred is traveling back home
3 tonight so safe travels back to (inaudible),
4 Fred.
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Okay. And after Ms.
7 Cave Rust, we've got Mel Jenkins, Martha Fowler
8 and Mimi Wortham-Brown, you all -- they still
9 here?
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And then -- and then Jaja Akair.
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) too (inaudible).
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. That's -- and okay.
14 Ms. Mims (ph).
15 MS. RUST: I'm gonna speak really quickly. My name
16 is Mims Cave Rust. I live on Black Friars
17 Road. A life long resident of Columbia. I
18 have no grandchildren but four granddogs.
19 (Laughter.)
20 MS. RUST: I'm -- I'd like to start by commending
21 both Councilman Runyan and the committee on
22 homelessness for the exhausting work that's
23 gone into this process. This is a tough issue
24 for every city in our country. It's not just
25 us, it's everywhere. And it -- it's a tough
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1 thing. I have a philosophical problem with the
2 effort to get the City of Columbia out of the
3 homeless situation. We're never gonna be out
4 of the homeless situation. There will always
5 be homeless people here and it's our
6 responsibility to figure out how to take care
7 of these people and how to get them to the
8 services that they need. The idea that it
9 should be fostered off on the faith-based
10 community to address this issue solely seems
11 very irresponsible to me. Our city has a
12 responsibility to our most needy citizens and
13 when I read that our goal is to get out of the
14 business of homelessness, that is a great
15 concern to me. Mayor Benjamin, you brought up
16 World War II in our previous discussion that
17 went on for hours and hours, and I wasn't hear
18 for World War II -- that was before my time
19 cause I'm 53 years old. But I do feel that
20 some of the biggest blights to our system was
21 the internment of our Japanese citizens during
22 World War II. I think we need to be very
23 careful when we look at vacuuming up our
24 homeless people and trying to put them
25 somewhere where they're not in the downtown
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1 area where all the services are that they need,
2 that we don't give the appearance or the feel
3 to them or to our citizens that we're shipping
4 them off to a camp somewhere. I have a
5 philosophical problem with that and I think
6 it's something that we need to think about. I
7 would suggest that you all take off your coat
8 and tie, put on your blue jeans and go out and
9 talk to these people. Not people who are hand
10 selected for you by any service provider. Go
11 out on the street, go to the winter shelter, go
12 to Transitions, sit and talk to people who are
13 there and find out what their thoughts and
14 feelings are. Don't come with an entourage
15 where they're all expecting you to come in.
16 Come in on your own and just talk to these
17 people. I think that's where you're gonna get
18 the best suggestions and ideas. I'm constantly
19 amazed by what they know, how smart they are --
20 -
21 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah ---
22 MR. CAVE RUST: --- all the time that they spend
23 reading the Wall Street Journal when I don't
24 have time to read, they have a lot of
25 information to give you and I would encourage
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1 you all to listen to what they have to say and
2 to lead us all with compassion.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
4 MR. CAVE RUST: Thank you.
5 (Applause.)
6 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Just -- sure (inaudible).
8 MR. RUNYAN: Very, very quick, I just wanted to
9 point to a couple things. That getting the
10 city out of the homeless business is
11 recognition of what I believe to be the turning
12 line (ph) with the availability of government
13 funds as a response -- as a source of --
14 primary funding source for poverty response.
15 And we're seeing the trend come out D.C., we're
16 seeing it locally as well, and every where in
17 between and -- matter of fact, I don't if
18 they're still here, they're probably gone but
19 I mean, The New York Times was in town today
20 covering this story and that was part of the
21 discussion that we had was, was the impact of
22 what's going on in Washington, how is that
23 trickling down and -- to the local level, and
24 what is the nexus of that with commerce and
25 business, and how do you navigate those waters
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1 going forward. So, that concept the city out
2 is a response -- it's -- think of risk
3 management, it's a response to what's coming.
4 And if we don't prepare for that, when that day
5 comes, we're going to have a problem that is
6 magnitudes greater than what we have now. And
7 then the second thing I want to say, you did
8 mention the Christian response, and being a
9 Christian, I do want to say that the homeless,
10 that everybody in here is made by what my God
11 (inaudible) that means they are made in the
12 image of God, and they all stand equal before
13 him. There is none superior to any other, we
14 are all fellow travelers. And so, I can't
15 speak for anybody else but when my approach to
16 dealing with anyone, the starting point is that
17 they are made in the image of God, the same way
18 that I am and the same way all of you all are.
19 And that, in views, should be our response to
20 everyone and especially the homeless. So, I
21 just want to say that. Thank you.
22 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you.
23 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you.
24 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you, (inaudible).
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Jaja, you're up next.
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1 MR. AKAIR: Yes ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And after the -- after Jaja, we've
3 got Dean Slade and Terry Williams and then
4 Reverend Wiley.
5 MR. AKAIR: Good evening, County Council and Mayor.
6 I'm here to represent -- speak for the
7 homeless. I am homeless. You all want to ask
8 some questions, ask me.
9 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible.)
10 MR. AKAIR: I'll tell you.
11 UNKNOWN VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
12 MR. AKAIR: I'll tell you what we need cause I talk
13 to them. I deal with them every day on a daily
14 basis. Sure, a lot of things that have been
15 said tonight are true. I'm not here to deny
16 it. Sure, there is defecation all around
17 businesses, there's urination around
18 businesses. You've got people out there
19 panhandling. Sure, it's -- all of these things
20 are true. I'm not trying to deny that, but
21 I'll tell you this, you know, if you think just
22 shipping someone away and think you're gonna
23 resolve the homeless problem, you're not.
24 Because a lot of people -- it's categories out
25 there of homelessness. You have the mental --
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1 you have the mental, which they're out of their
2 mind, completely out of their mind. You know,
3 they don't know what the next day is going --
4 is going to turn into tomorrow. They don't
5 know, they have no idea. Half of them done
6 gave up. That's why they walk around talking
7 to themselves. They walk around in 100 degree
8 weather with coats on. That's insane. But
9 I'll tell you all this, you know, homeless
10 people, we're -- we are some different
11 individuals. We're talented. There's a lot of
12 talent out here. In many different ways, you
13 know, haggler -- to hagglers. You can get in
14 -- I could pick nine people right now that are
15 (inaudible) Council right now that's in (ph)
16 homeless. I know, I talk to them, I deal with
17 them. I'm one of them. I could sit on
18 Council. But that's not my position, that
19 ain't my job. I'm here because I feel as
20 though the homeless is not getting a fair
21 shake. They're not understanding what's the
22 root of the problem. You gotta get to the root
23 of the problem, why we're homeless. Half of us
24 have lost our jobs, homes, families, you know,
25 some of us have went -- been in prison then
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1 we're like -- like Tom Turnipseed said, when
2 they get outta prison, they drop 'em right in
3 Columbia. (Inaudible) I'm one of them, I'm
4 from New Jersey. But I didn't come from
5 prison, but I'm just saying I came out here
6 because there was a need, and I'm out here
7 because there's something that God had me come
8 out here for, you know? But we have to stop
9 pointing the finger at homeless people when we
10 really have no control over our situation. We
11 have no control over it. I don't see nobody
12 downtown hiring nobody from homeless, and
13 that's one of our major problems, we don't have
14 a job. We don't have a job. We can't -- we
15 can't -- we don't know when our next meal -- if
16 they hadn't feed -- if they're not feeding out
17 here, we wouldn't know where our next meal was
18 gonna come from. We really wouldn't know. But
19 because of lack of jobs and because -- and a
20 lot of them, know what I'm saying (ph),
21 probably can't get a job cause a lot of people
22 do have criminal records and don't nobody wanna
23 give them a shot at becoming a councilman or
24 running a business or even working at a
25 business. They don't wanna give them a shot.
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1 Try giving some of us a shot, I guarantee you
2 some of us will run your business better that
3 you will. I'm being honest with you, you know?
4 We are some talented people. We -- we're not
5 people that are disrespectful. Sure, some bad
6 things gonna go on, but we're not disrespectful
7 people. We just wanna be loved just like -- we
8 wanna be treated just like you all wanna be
9 treated. We're citizens too. Long as we got
10 an ID saying we're citizens of the City of
11 Columbia and we get our mailing address, which
12 is general delivery, which is in the City of
13 Columbia, we're citizens.
14 UNKNOWN MALE: Amen.
15 MR. AKAIR: We're citizens. So we've got the same
16 right as the ones that live in half a million
17 dollar houses, quarter of a million dollar --
18 we've go the same right. So you just can't
19 just knock us to the side like we -- we're a
20 piece of meat or we -- we're just a piece of
21 paper. We're humans. We're God's given
22 children. They come here for a purpose. And
23 once each and every one of us find our purpose
24 and why we're here, maybe this world will be a
25 better place. Maybe the city will be safer.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Jaja. It's a -- and
2 Jaja and I have known each other for several
3 years.
4 MR. AKAIR: Yes.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And I think Mims, when you talked
6 about engaging folks from the street and
7 actually listen people, and I do it almost
8 every single day. Jaja's been to city hall,
9 sharing with me his ideas. They're always very
10 relevant, very salient and we've been -- I know
11 we -- in times past, we've made sure we've
12 included the homeless in one respect or another
13 in discussion. But we've got to get much more
14 aggressive in including folks in solutions.
15 Jaja's full of solutions, now, he's got a lot
16 of ideas ---
17 MR. AKAIR: (Inaudible.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and full of energy. And
19 actually also enjoys the trust and competence
20 of some of these people on the streets who look
21 to him for guidance. So, I appreciate you
22 being here and ---
23 MR. AKAIR: (Inaudible.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and I know ---
25 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah ---
2 UNKNOWN MALE: Can I make ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- what do you think about --
4 Tameika wanted to know about the need for 24/7.
5 Do you think -- you think folks want somewhere
6 to be able to go during the day and night or
7 what have you? I mean ---
8 MR. AKAIR: Would they be able to drink? I'm being
9 honest with you. I'm being -- I'm being 100
10 percent honest with you. Would they be able to
11 drink?
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh ---
13 MR. AKAIR: No.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes ---
15 MR. AKAIR: No, no, no, no, no. No, Mr. Mayor.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah ---
17 MR. AKAIR: They're not gonna be able to drink. If
18 they go there, they're not gonna be able to
19 drink.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
21 MR. AKAIR: Are they gonna be able to smoke crack?
22 No. Are they gonna be ---
23 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
24 MR. AKAIR: --- you all are laughing but I'm -- this
25 is something that's hideous ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Well ---
2 MR. AKAIR: --- this is not something that ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: One thing that you've impressed on
4 me before and I think the committee also
5 touched on the issue as did Councilman Runyan
6 is that we oftentimes, just based on
7 appearance, think we're dealing with a
8 homogeneous population and we're not dealing
9 with a homogeneous population. We -- we're
10 dealing ---
11 MR. AKAIR: Dealing with a bunch of addicts.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- a population that is very
13 diverse and there are different challenges so
14 ---
15 MR. AKAIR: Yes.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So let's -- we've got -- we got --
17 actually, we don't have as many people signed
18 up to speak as you all might think we do. So
19 let's just try to work our way through the --
20 through the order ---
21 MR. AKAIR: I just want to make one more point ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
23 MR. AKAIR: --- and then -- and then I'll sit down.
24 I just want to thank certain people, Tom
25 Turnipseed and his organi -- cause every
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1 Sunday, they come out and it's like a
2 smorgasbord ---
3 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
4 MR. AKAIR: --- it's like the homeless -- I mean,
5 it's just so much food that -- and it's
6 different people, and it's different ethnics of
7 people. It's not just white, it's not black,
8 it's different ethnics of people coming
9 together to serve people that's less fortunate,
10 you know? But I'll say this, then -- I heard
11 the lady talking about earlier, about the food.
12 You ain't gonna be able to stop that cause
13 you've got some people that's way up there by
14 Harden, you've got some people on Huger,
15 they're all over ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The people -- well, people are
17 happy ---
18 MR. AKAIR: Yeah, so they ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- make sure ---
20 MR. AKAIR: --- and I also want to -- like to thank
21 Jim Jones cause, you know, he's going through
22 a lot with -- with just on his property on
23 Calhoun, and I -- I try to do my best to help,
24 the best way that I can, but you've got to
25 understand the people that are home -- you've
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1 just got to understand them. If you don't
2 understand us, you'll never, ever be able to
3 fix this problem.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Absolutely. Thank you.
5 MR. AKAIR: You'll never be able to under -- you'll
6 never be able to fix it, this thing.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Plaugh? Then we've got Dean
8 Slade, Terry Williams and Reverend Cooper here
9 to speak.
10 MS. PLAUGH: You were responding to what it would
11 take to have a facility that people wouldn't
12 mind going to, that they would utilize. You
13 know, over the years, and actually one of the
14 proposals we heard tonight is the idea of reach
15 -- outreach to the people where they are. And
16 to try to help an individual, you know, give
17 them whatever they're issues are to help them,
18 you know, change their life if they're
19 interested. That's one of the -- one of the
20 recommendations from one of the committees is
21 to do case management or outreach where they
22 are as opposed to trying to get them to go
23 someplace. You try to help them where they are
24 and I know the little I've read on -- that
25 really what you frequently have to do where you
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1 have -- particularly people with sever mental
2 issues, is you have to build a trust
3 relationship first so it is not an overnight
4 occurrence. And you've got other hardships
5 associated with it. But I just would like your
6 reaction to, you know, one proposal is to have
7 shelter and you try to get people there for the
8 services. Another is you try to service them
9 where you find them. If it happens to be in an
10 individual house, if they happen to be -- have
11 a home, you try to keep them there or if you
12 find them on the street, you try to address or
13 work with them on the street. What -- what's
14 your reaction to ...
15 MR. AKAIR: My reaction to that is this, again, the
16 homeless community is a very diverse community
17 and -- cause -- and by being diverse like that,
18 you have individuals that do want to help. You
19 have a lot of individuals that do want to help.
20 You've got a lot of individuals that would love
21 a program like this, then you have some that
22 don't.
23 MS. PLAUGH: No matter what ---
24 MR. AKAIR: No matter what you do.
25 MR. RUNYAN: And just let me ask you a quick
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1 question. I'm sorry to interrupt you. If --
2 if all the food -- if all -- you mentioned the
3 food and how important that is -- if all the
4 food was at the shelter site, would everybody
5 go there?
6 MR. AKAIR: No.
7 MR. RUNYAN: They still ---
8 MR. AKAIR: They still won't go. And they won't go
9 because of -- of the stipulations. Just like
10 you take Oliver Gospel Mission for instance.
11 I don't mean to bad mouth nobody or -- but this
12 is -- real is real, truth is truth. You go to
13 Oliver Gospel Million -- Oliver Gospel Mission,
14 you cannot eat a meal at dinner unless you go
15 to the -- a religious service, when a lot of
16 people aren't Christian. You can't force a
17 religion on no one, you know? So it ---
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. AKAIR: --- it's like you're forcing people to
20 do something that they don't want to do just to
21 eat. That's wrong. You know what I'm saying?
22 But in dealing with these different shelters,
23 a lot of them just like the Transitions,
24 Transitions are (inaudible) right now.
25 Transition, people are leaving everyday. Know,
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1 why? They say it's ran like a prison. It's
2 ran as if it's a -- were a prison. We're not
3 prisoners. We ain't -- we're not in jail. We
4 committed no crime, so you can't make me go to
5 some type of program and tell me that I have to
6 do this or I lose my bed. So people -- and
7 then you got people constantly who are in
8 confrontation after confrontation. It's going
9 to happen. If you don't find a solution -- I
10 brought a solution to the mayor about -- it's
11 -- we're simple people. I'm really serious.
12 We're simple people. We don't ask for much.
13 Only thing we asking for, a job where we can be
14 able to get housing for ourselves and maintain
15 the rent. We don't have no job, how we going
16 to maintain a home? How? We can't pay the
17 rent.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
19 MR. AKAIR: We can't pay the light bill. So without
20 a job ---
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I missed ---
22 MR. AKAIR: --- it's a defeated purpose.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- the question, but I -- we gotta
24 keep it moving ---
25 MR. AKAIR: Why?
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- keep ---
2 MR. AKAIR: Does that answer your question now?
3 MS. PLAUGH: Thank you so much.:
4 MR. AKAIR: All right.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
6 MR. AKAIR: Hey, I thank all of you all.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you now. All right. Dean
8 Slade, Terry Williams, (inaudible) ---
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. SLADE: Thank you, Mayor, and Council Members.
11 I must talk, my friends, with the first
12 presentation or I'm probably going to lose the
13 (inaudible) with the second
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We love you, man. We love you.
15 MR. SLADE: (Inaudible) I feel with your
16 (inaudible). Joyce and I work with Eau Claire
17 Cooperative Health Centers and we provide
18 health services to the homeless in the -- at
19 Transitions, at Cooperative Ministries and also
20 at St. Lawrence Place. And I'm not sure what
21 the number is now, your concerned with the
22 number of folks that we served or are serving
23 is that ...
24 UNKNOWN MALE: Since 2000 April -- April 2011 ---
25 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Might want to come to the mike.
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1 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
2 UNKNOWN MALE: We saw our first patients, I want to
3 say April 11, 2012, at Transitions and we have
4 600 -- I want to say 637 individual patients
5 that we've seen. And we've seen them on
6 multiple occasions ---
7 UNKNOWN MALE: Do you have the ---
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Say again?
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But do you mean 600 new patients?
10 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, sir.
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Wow.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
13 MR. SLADE: And these folks receive free medicine,
14 they receive access to other services, they
15 receive access to specialty services. We
16 coordinate the car and -- and I guess the big
17 -- you know, the thing that, I mean, you don't
18 realize what an honor it is to work with all
19 these folks. I tell you, I, you know, I -- one
20 of the things that upset me, Councilor Runyan,
21 with your approach was that it appeared as
22 though you were usurping the issue. Is -- this
23 isn't an acute condition, this is a chronic
24 condition. And we really need to, you know, to
25 recognize, you know, the champions, you know,
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1 and really invite you and invite Jimmy to join
2 with us in trying to resolve these issues is
3 the -- is the really I don't think that you --
4 that you guys have really joined with the
5 community of carers and started to address this
6 issue. The issue with Mast General is an issue
7 related to the way Oliver Gospel Mission
8 operates and the fact that there are entry
9 times and exit times and the people then start
10 congregating on the streets. These are issues
11 that can be resolved with discussion and seeing
12 if any of those procedures can be changed, you
13 know. And there's other congregation times
14 that take place with folks that get coffee at
15 Jimmy's place. So, you know, these issues can
16 be -- can be addressed and I think, you know,
17 we've heard, you know, earnestly from Craig and
18 from, you know, both the Salvation Army and,
19 you know, and even, you know, on the sanitation
20 issue. I mean, on all of these practical
21 issues is the -- is that there's a willingness,
22 you know, to be able to work together to bring,
23 you know, to bring solutions. But, you know,
24 I think, you know, a lot of us feel hurt by the
25 fact that you haven't, you know, engaged and
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1 come along side and recognized in a sense the
2 work that has gone on and is going on and will
3 continue to go on.
4 MR. RUNYAN: I've got to address that if you don't
5 mind, Mr. Mayor ---
6 MR. BENJAMIN: Yeah.
7 MR. RUNYAN: May I?
8 MR. BENJAMIN: Yeah, I want to say something too ---
9 MR. RUNYAN: A couple of things, Dean. Number one,
10 this is a chronic problem. If we -- poverty
11 has been with us forever, it will be with us
12 forever ---
13 MR. SLADE: But your (inaudible) acute, acute,
14 acute.
15 MR. RUNYAN: Let me finish, Mr. Slade (ph). What is
16 -- what is at issue here is what is our
17 response to it and that's what the Columbia
18 Cares is -- was about is a long systemic raw
19 response to -- it is about an acute emergency
20 on the streets of this city and I think you're
21 about to hear from a business man who might
22 share with you and eliminate a little bit of
23 what the emergency actually looks like on the
24 streets of this city. I've heard from a whole
25 lot of other ones from Fred Martin all the way
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1 down. So, we have a very serious situation
2 before us right now and it is an acute
3 emergency. Now it is an acute emergency
4 related to a chronic condition, we understand
5 that. But it -- it's -- it is a manifestation
6 of the problem more broader than we've seen
7 before. The other thing is I have worked very
8 diligently, and I believe you even came and
9 spoke ---
10 MR. SLADE: Right, I did.
11 MR. RUNYAN: --- info session.
12 MR. SLADE: Right.
13 MR. RUNYAN: And many, many, many providers,
14 including many who are here tonight, came and
15 spoke at the info session. I see Mac Bennett
16 back there. I went back and looked through my
17 calendar since I've been elected and I've
18 actually met with Mac more times than any other
19 service provider and folks with -- since being
20 elected. Matter of fact, Mac was the first
21 one, and his representatives not (inaudible)
22 after being elected to discuss this very issue.
23 So, I've worked very hard to try to engage
24 people. I don't mean -- what I propose has
25 always made everybody happy, but I've tried to
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1 engage people and I want to continue to try to
2 engage people because we cannot do this alone.
3 And that's what Columbia Cares is all about and
4 that center red circle is all about harnessing
5 the power of what's already being done. All
6 these great programs, whether they're
7 Transitions or Salvation Army or Mercy or
8 whatever the case is, that -- we've got to
9 harness all the energy that's already being
10 invested into this issue so collaboration is
11 key. Without that, it won't succeed. So, my
12 goal from the outset, is to make sure that
13 everyone is included in it. I try to do that
14 probably imperfectly, I'm sure of that, and
15 that's -- that's my failing (inaudible). I
16 will try to do better going forward, but it is
17 very important that we all do pull in the same
18 direction if we're gonna get past this so ...
19 MR. BENJAMIN: I think (inaudible) some great
20 knowledge amongst us. Thank you, Dean.
21 MR. SLADE: Okay.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And if you can (inaudible) one
23 person tonight, Dean, I'm serious, I always
24 value you ---
25 MR. SLADE: Thank you.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- think everybody else -- they
2 always value your input and (inaudible)
3 counsel. Now, are you going to speak, too, or
4 (inaudible) take up the list and read it?
5 UNKNOWN MALE: No.
6 MR. BENJAMIN: Okay. (Inaudible.)
7 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think a point -- a point that I
9 want to make very quickly, under sixty seconds,
10 is we're not talking about Columbia Cares
11 tonight, all right? And we're not -- so we're
12 not talking about the retreat and, you know,
13 some of the other references. We've got --
14 we've got problems (ph) to report tonight, and
15 I think there's some things in here that are
16 immediately can be implemented and several of
17 them are long term issues like -- like some of
18 the approaches proposed in Columbia Cares too.
19 What we do need to do over the next several
20 months is get everybody together and make sure
21 we're all working on one accord. I think we
22 can do that. This emergency response, as well
23 as some -- several of the immediate things we
24 can do quickly, tomorrow, we need to -- we need
25 to get going on doing something. So I think
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1 there's a whole lot more common ground. Let's
2 just make sure -- I know that it's getting late
3 and we're all getting -- maybe getting a little
4 grumpy so let's keep -- let's keep the
5 conversation as productive and positive as
6 possible. And we have (inaudible) two major
7 political parties at the state level, let's not
8 make any more Nazi references, okay?
9 (Applause.)
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. All right.
11 MR. WILLIAMS: You all aren't paid enough to do
12 this, that's all I can say. (Inaudible) ---
13 (Laughter.)
14 MR. WILLIAMS: This is my second meeting and I think
15 you met most -- most of you I met. Hell, I
16 don't even know what I'm saying any more. I
17 met most of you at the Bull Street hearing and
18 I brought up the homeless issue at the Bull
19 Street hearing and so I get the forum tonight,
20 I guess I get extra minutes and -- but anyway,
21 a couple of things I wanted to address with
22 you. I'm glad there's another report. I've
23 asked for another report. When I got involved,
24 you know, after I brought it up at that session
25 of the homeless, I wanted to see a plan and I
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1 saw a newscast, that's the first time I'd ever
2 seen you other than the Council meeting, and
3 Jack Kenzie did, so I sent a request out to
4 you, Mr. Runyan, for the plan. I wanted to see
5 a plan on this homeless issue. Nothing's being
6 done on it. And so they said there was one and
7 then I found out from some other Council people
8 there was one in the works. Well, I wanted
9 one. I'm going to get one tonight before I
10 leave and ---
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MR. WILLIAM: Thank you.
13 MR. BENJAMIN: As a matter of fact, let's make sure
14 this is posted on ---
15 MR. WILLIAM: Yeah.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- the city web site as soon as
17 it's practical (inaudible).
18 MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah, that took up my time just
19 addressing that but ---
20 (Laughter.)
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah, time's my number one ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
24 MR. WILLIAMS: --- yeah, let me go ahead and tell
25 you my name's Terry Williams. I have the
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1 business Williams Gee & Company on the corner
2 of Bull and Calhoun, CPA firm. I don't have to
3 be politically correct because I don't care if
4 I lose clients. But the thing here, this isn't
5 just a homeless issue, this is a public safety
6 issue. I think there was just a stabbing the
7 other night, wasn't it ---
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah ---
9 MR. WILLIAMS: --- like the 2000 block ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
11 MR. WILLIAMS: --- of Main Street so -- but it's
12 also a hustler issue. I heard the doctor --
13 the young looking doctor ---
14 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Laughter.)
15 MR. WILLIAMS: --- he talked about that 80 percent
16 of the people out here might be hustlers. We
17 got hustlers out here. We don't just have
18 homeless people. You can say what you want to.
19 I think that man right there, he said it's all
20 diverse, but there's prisoners being dropped in
21 here and stuff. And so, unfortunately, the
22 hustlers out there are making it hard on the
23 homeless for a businessman. Cause, I'm not
24 getting it, you know, I'm in the war zone. I'm
25 on the Calhoun Street corner. And trust me,
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1 litter is not the number one priority for me on
2 the Calhoun Street corner. I mean, you heard
3 this man tonight talk about crack. He talked
4 about people want to drink and stuff. Well,
5 it's going on on the corner of Bull and
6 Calhoun. Now, you know, we can talk this issue
7 to death because I saw four hours of something
8 talked to death before we ever got to this one.
9 And so ---
10 (Laughter.)
11 MR. WILLIAMS: --- I know this one's going to be
12 talked to death. There's no doubt in my mind
13 it's going to be talked to death. But time is
14 running out. You heard the Mast guy. He --
15 I'm so glad he was here.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
17 MR. WILLIAMS: Because I'm just a small business
18 man, but I got skin in the game. I pay $26,000
19 a year in property taxes. Now, there's a lot
20 of churches and 501(c)(3) organizations, I
21 don't think they pay real estate taxes. I may
22 be wrong. If I'm wrong, you all pop me on it
23 right now. But I got skin in the game, you
24 know, and I hear all of you talking about
25 concentration camps, stuff like that. That's
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1 not going to happen today. We know that.
2 That's ridiculous it even comes up here. And
3 the references, that was another thing. But I
4 got skin in the game. But I want you to
5 visualize this in your mind. Where you work,
6 where you have a (inaudible) stuff, okay? I
7 hear it, but too bad. You visualize this.
8 There's drinking, there's drunkenness -- we
9 heard it all -- using the restroom on my
10 property. You know what really makes me mad,
11 if I walk down to the Vista (ph) or I walk down
12 to your restaurant or I walk down to your
13 financial firm or whatever it is, and I decide
14 that I'm going to pop a top, but, you know, I
15 got this suit on, so I am going to be
16 discriminated against and I'm going to tell you
17 how. First of all, I'm going to -- oh, and
18 then I'm going to also void in your property.
19 You know, I want to make sure I get that done
20 too. So what I'm going to be done where
21 nothing else is going on, I'm going to be
22 arrested, public display, public intoxication,
23 indecent exposure, and I get to be on the
24 sexual offender's list for the rest of my
25 natural life. That's what I get for wearing a
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1 suit and paying taxes and have to deal with
2 that going on on my property every week.
3 Although I did have to deal with gambling this
4 week, that was the only thing that was
5 different. The Columbia Cares Plan, I think
6 it's a great plan. Nobody's going to move them
7 out. I want to see this plan because I think
8 they could be merged together. But I'm telling
9 you, time's running out on you. I'm not paying
10 $26,000 a year to police this area and have to
11 deal with this. And on the plan -- on you
12 all's plan, I appreciate it, three things I got
13 out of it. On the (inaudible) on great
14 numbers, I'm an accountant, but I'm a math
15 major. I can make numbers dance for you any
16 way you want to, whether you're with United
17 Way, the homeless, or Carolina Cares, I can
18 make 'em dance for you. And ---
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
20 MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah, good. And Calhoun Street
21 corridor shouldn't be the primary focus of
22 litter and then as far as the meals and stuff
23 and trying to facilitate a restroom area and
24 stuff for the homeless, we're going to die on
25 the vine here, that's all I'm going to tell
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1 you.
2 MR. BENJAMIN: Reverend Cooper, I'm not sure if the
3 Gaffneys are still here or if they plan to
4 speak on this issue on the record.
5 REVEREND COOPER: I'll speak on their behalf.
6 MR. BENJAMIN: You're going to speak on their
7 behalf?
8 REVEREND COOPER: Yeah.
9 MR. BENJAMIN: (Inaudible), that's all right.
10 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. So ---
12 UNKNOWN MALE: Chief Stewart.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- Reverend Cooper and we might --
14 and we said Chief Stewart?
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Chief Stewart ---
16 MR. BENJAMIN: Oh yeah. How you doing?
17 REVEREND COOPER: I'll be very brief. I'm Wiley
18 Cooper. I live at 5314 Colonial Drive in Eau
19 Claire. I was encouraged tonight and I wasn't
20 expecting to be. Cameron, thank you for your
21 hard work and your strong planning and efforts
22 and thank you to the group -- the homeless --
23 the providers and the city's homeless group for
24 coming up with concrete options. You all can
25 get together. Both of you are going to have to
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1 let go of a little ego, but you can get
2 together and you can make some good things
3 happen for all of our people like the homeless
4 gentleman was talking about and the business
5 people were talking about. But we can't do it
6 by overstating problems and issues. We can't
7 do it by deliberately creating panic as a way
8 of ginning up enthusiasm. We've got to do it
9 by appreciating and listening to each other,
10 including the various categories of the
11 homeless and the not for profit providers.
12 Heard some pretty rough things said tonight and
13 other nights about the provider community.
14 That's got to stop. These people aren't here
15 to make big salaries. These people aren't here
16 to preserve a power base. I know these people.
17 I've served food and worked with them. They're
18 here because they deeply care for people who
19 often can't speak for themselves and can't care
20 for themselves. Together we may be able to do
21 more and we can. If we can tamp down this
22 rhetoric a little bit and look for the ways
23 that we can work together without giving
24 churches like the one I attend a fear that the
25 city is going to try to stop us from providing
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1 food to the homeless as we've been doing for 30
2 years ---
3 (Applause.)
4 REVEREND COOPER: --- and that's what the plan looks
5 like it says. Or people like Tom Turnipseed,
6 we don't need that kind of shafting. Let's
7 work together to make this city what it can be,
8 not threatening to put our homeless in jail
9 because they defecate when we don't provide a
10 place where people can defecate. That's silly.
11 My wife raised a question and I'm going to tell
12 on her and I'm going to shut up. I think a
13 very good question is, oh Jesus, the one who
14 had no place to lay his head, when we get
15 through, is he going to be welcome on the
16 streets of Columbia?
17 (Applause.)
18 MR. BENJAMIN: Thank you, Reverend Cooper. We've
19 got Chief Robert Stewart, Dr. John Evans, and
20 then Elaine Cooper.
21 CHIEF STEWART: Am I next?
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, please (inaudible).
23 CHIEF STEWART: I'll be very brief. I represent the
24 Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church and let me
25 say that we have skin in the game, too. We're
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1 heavily invested. We own a whole block with
2 brand new church buildings right here on
3 Calhoun Street and Main Street. We voluntarily
4 pay our share every year to Center City
5 Partnership and we don't have to pay that, we
6 volunteer to pay it because we want to pay it.
7 We give tens of thousands of dollars every year
8 to the charities, including the homeless, in
9 this city and we continue -- we will continue
10 to do that. We're not leaving Main Street.
11 We're here to stay. At the same time, we must
12 have some basic level of safety so we can
13 continue to operate and give money to the poor
14 and do the things that good Christian
15 organizations are supposed to do. We're having
16 break-ins. We had a break-in with a person who
17 was influenced with something and the priest
18 walked in on him. Thankfully, nothing
19 happened. We're having thefts, we're having
20 trouble with mentally ill coming in and
21 actually disrupting services. Would you have
22 that in your church? We can't operate like
23 that. We have -- we have prisoner release a
24 block from us and two weeks ago, a person that
25 told me he just got armed robbery was on our
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1 property aggressively panhandling for money.
2 You can't operate like that. People are
3 afraid, tell us -- called in as recently as
4 this past week, afraid to come to certain
5 services during the week. We have one of the
6 biggest events in downtown Columbia, the Greek
7 Festival, and we want to continue doing that --
8 we will continue to do that, but we're having
9 all these issues and we can't have our people,
10 our women at night, children working on the
11 festival, preparing for it, and concerned about
12 these type of issues. Believe me, no one wants
13 to help the poor more than we do, and we're
14 going to continue to help 'em, but to continue
15 at the level and to generate the funds that we
16 need to generate to do that, we've got to have
17 a basic level of security. And we have to
18 depend on the city to do that. We've put money
19 in -- the city's helped us put some cameras, we
20 put our money in cameras, we've increased
21 lighting. The next thing we'll have to do is
22 hire private security. If we have to hire our
23 own police force so we can operate as a church
24 on Main Street, I don't think we should have to
25 do that -- that money should be going to help
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1 the poor, the people here we're talking about
2 tonight, and that's what we want to do. Down
3 the street, we've got 800 students coming to
4 the SCANA building, gonna be on Main Street,
5 got the new Bull Street project over here. The
6 city's at a crossroads but the government --
7 the city government must provide a basic level
8 of safety for us to operate. We're gonna do
9 the Christian thing, we're gonna help the
10 homeless and the poor and the needy, but you
11 gotta help us so we can help others.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Chief.
13 (Applause.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is Dr. Evans still here? Then we
15 have Ms. Elaine Cooper and then Tim Liszenski
16 still here?
17 UNKNOWN MALE: Oh, he's gone.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Elaine Cooper. And after
19 Ms. Cooper, we will hear from Ms. Barbara
20 Kovacs. Are you speaking, Glen (ph)?
21 UNKNOWN MALE: No.
22 MS. COOPER: My name is Elaine Cooper and I live in
23 Columbia. I was one of the founders of
24 Homeless Helping Homeless. I've worked with
25 Food Not Bombs for 12 years. I've worked over
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1 at the winter shelter for several years. I've
2 worked at Transitions, et cetera. So,
3 basically, I've looked at the article that was
4 in the newspaper and I'll address that. But,
5 you know, my opening title will be turning --
6 are we turning downtown into a gated community
7 or are we increasing business for lawyers and
8 lawsuits, and I'll explain that further. Okay,
9 the winter shelter only holds 240 folks. What
10 happens to the rest of the folks. Remember,
11 the article stated that folks will get arrested
12 if they're going in -- if they're traveling to
13 the shelter and back, so how can you discern
14 who the folks are that are traveling over to
15 Oliver Gospel or over to Transitions. So I
16 talked to Frank Martin, who called my home
17 today, and asked him about the inhumanity of
18 the proposed plan to open a winter shelter on
19 -- at -- in, you know, for a temporary solution
20 before they're sent out to the compound 10 to
21 15 miles outside of Columbia. First of all, he
22 wasn't aware that there's no air conditioning
23 at the winter shelter. Are any of you aware
24 that there is no air condition ---
25 UNKNOWN MALE: That'll be addressed in the proposal
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1 ---
2 MS. COOPER: Okay.
3 UNKNOWN MALE: I don't know if you were here.
4 MS. COOPER: No air conditioning right now we know
5 because we called today. There's no air
6 conditioning. (Inaudible) is right around the
7 corner. There is no medical staff at the
8 winter shelter. I personally know that because
9 I worked at the winter shelter this last winter
10 when there was a young lady right in front of
11 me who turned the strangest shade of red, her
12 eyes rolled up in her head and sure enough,
13 right in my arms, she proceeded to have a grand
14 mal seizure. I had to go (inaudible) and
15 demand that they call 911, which they really
16 moved very calmly and asked was there a medical
17 person, a nurse, anyone? No. I proceeded to
18 -- after this incident to ask if there was any
19 medical staff whatsoever of any kind. There
20 isn't. That violates a person's constitutional
21 rights, that sets you up for a lawsuit right
22 there. So this is not, you know, a temporary
23 situation to a so-called immediate crisis that
24 has been looked at in regards to human rights.
25 There was a lack of strong security inside the
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1 building, and I know we -- that there is a lot
2 of concern about the outside of the building,
3 like keeping human beings from walking on a
4 public street to a public facility called the
5 library. That violates a person's
6 constitutional rights. And then there should
7 be a lot of increased security if we're going
8 to have released inmates inside the winter
9 shelter. And then, when we work at the winter
10 shelter, folks were not allowed to take showers
11 on a daily basis. If that's, you know, if the
12 staff, because of economic reasons of, you
13 know, laundry, et cetera, how is a homeless
14 person even able to take the next step to get
15 a job. What precautions will be installed if
16 someone gets a highly infectious disease like
17 TB, as was in the news. As you recall, there
18 was a person who was sick and did pass away at
19 the shelter. And I can understand a lot of
20 homeless people not wanting to go to the
21 shelter because you are crammed in, in a very
22 tight area. And again, I welcome folks to go
23 to the winter shelter and, you know, volunteer
24 and see what kind of, you know, facilities are
25 there. And then, is there any public
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1 application to apply for the so-called open
2 public process of a city-appointed community.
3 We talked about this in the so-called public
4 meetings that we thought our voices were heard.
5 But the -- since then, there hasn't been any
6 outreach to any of the people have been
7 formerly homeless. There were some ladies who
8 were present and that homeless -- that everyone
9 was deeply impressed ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Elaine (ph).
11 MS COOPER: --- with that they had actually taken
12 steps out of there. Okay, I'm going to go on
13 because we've heard you for hours, and I'm just
14 going to finish. And I'm sorry, but I was one
15 of the first people who did sign up and I know
16 when I am last.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You're not last, Elaine.
18 MS. COOPER: Stake -- stakeholders, why is there not
19 any of the represent -- why is there not any
20 stakeholders. I would imagine the biggest
21 stakeholder is the homeless. Will there be a
22 stakeholder, a homeless representative, on this
23 committee that we meet with folks and in the
24 time that this -- the winter shelter is open.
25 I haven't seen any steps whatsoever to even
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1 appoint anyone from a homeless organization.
2 Okay, and last -- and then another point is
3 that former Councilman Rickenmann raised the
4 most important question, where is the money
5 coming from, where is the money coming from
6 this -- for the increased police foot protect
7 -- what is -- where is the money coming from
8 for the arrests, where is the money coming from
9 for the court cost? A lot of -- lot of
10 interesting questions.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Elaine, can you help us wrap
12 it up ---
13 MS. COOPER: The most important point ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Elaine, this is ---
15 MS. COOPER: Is worth ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm not ---
17 MS. COOPER : Worth looking at ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- because we several others ---
19 MS. COOPER: --- (inaudible) as a racial
20 (inaudible), don't, you know -- we've listened
21 to you long enough (inaudible) okay ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
23 MS. COOPER: Don't be so rude.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) ---
25 MR. COOPER: (Inaudible) Tameika, don't interrupt
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1 when a person has the mike for minute. There
2 will be -- there is and will be racial
3 profiling and discrimination, which is
4 unconstitutional. Perhaps the homeless need to
5 wear a little scarf on their clothes to
6 illustrate who is homeless so we can -- so when
7 the hotline is in action, people can observe
8 the star on them to signify that they are a
9 homeless person so we can call them on that.
10 A lot of folks have thought about going
11 downtown at -- if this is going to go into
12 action and just, you know, see who would be
13 profiled as to whether they're so-called
14 homeless. Anyways, I, you know, I end my
15 statement that it's a bad situation, that
16 there's been a lot of conversation tonight
17 dedicated to not realizing that we're dealing
18 with human beings. And I do -- well, I do love
19 the idea that we're actually talking for once
20 about having some public restrooms. That's the
21 great one good point that's come out of this
22 tonight. Thank you.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Barbara Kovacs? I think it
24 says Dr. Charles Sigh? I'm not sure -- I can't
25 read it. Oakhill?
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mr. York Glover, you have the
3 microphone, and we have Sue Berkowitz after
4 York.
5 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, Sue -- yeah, Sue goes after
7 York and ---
8 MR. GLOVER: I was trying to find -- oh, I'm sorry.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, please.
10 MR. GLOVER: Morning.
11 (Laughter.)
12 MR. GLOVER: York Glover, Eau Claire Cooperative,
13 and I enjoy what I do. Just trying to find
14 something good to say, and I think this the
15 conversation is necessary, it's needed. A
16 washing machine, as my grandfather told me, has
17 to have an agitator. If not, the clothes don't
18 get clean so we gotta have it. So, and
19 finally, something I was reflecting and I
20 reflected back to the first day I enrolled
21 someone in our program at Christ Central and on
22 that date I met a classmate I graduated with in
23 high school, hadn't seen in about 10, 15 years.
24 And we connected but he has gone through some
25 things and he had been on the streets for
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1 several years. He's doing better now. He
2 still has challenges, but there were certain
3 things that happened and I'm like, we grew up
4 together from kindergarten to 12th grade, what
5 happened to you, what didn't happen to me. And
6 situations happen but for him to see someone
7 actually genuinely caring and it's -- it wasn't
8 just me, it was Christ Central, it was
9 Transitions, it was Columbia Mental Health
10 where he was getting service. I was reflecting
11 on that, that's a good thing. I met a
12 gentleman who, as his provider stated, has not
13 been sober in five years, and I'm going to see
14 him tomorrow. We was able to give him an
15 emergency bed with Craig at Transitions. And
16 I'm not saying he's been sober for the last
17 three weeks but he is, excuse my English,
18 soberer.
19 UNKNOWN MALE: Soberer.
20 (Laughter.)
21 MR. GLOVER: And I'm going to discuss a job with him
22 tomorrow. It's a good thing. Also, the first
23 week we started seeing patients at Transitions,
24 April of last year, I met a gentleman who we
25 needed a quick physical because he accepted a
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1 job as a bank assistant manager -- assistant
2 manager at a bank. Wife died and his two
3 children died in an accident. He mentally shut
4 down for a little over three years, but he
5 received the help that he needed from the
6 agencies right here in the city and when he was
7 ready to click back on, he clicked back on. He
8 had a master's degree in finance. So, he was
9 able to get a job right here in the city. He's
10 gone now, he's back in North Carolina, but the
11 fact of the matter is, if certain entities were
12 not here, some things wouldn't happen. So
13 there are a lot parts to the whole, but all the
14 parts have to work for this thing -- for this
15 thing that we call Columbia to work. You can
16 be homeless but you -- you're still a citizen
17 of Columbia, that's just the situation that
18 you're in right now. So, I wanted to add a
19 possible challenge to the -- to the plans. I
20 think that with some tweaking, the plans can
21 function and we can do some things that's gonna
22 be great for our citizens. The high schools
23 right here in Columbia, Richland One now has
24 been doing it for several years, has this thing
25 called freshman orientation. And one of the
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1 reasons that freshman orientation came about
2 was because you had a lot of people in the
3 freshman class, they were 17, 18, 19 years old,
4 they're still freshmans (sic). And they were
5 negatively impacting the new freshmans (sic)
6 coming in. So they had a freshman orientation
7 and then they started separating the freshmans
8 (sic) as they came in to try to ensure them the
9 opportunity of graduating and graduating on
10 time. Does that make sense? But what they did
11 is they looked at the kids as they were coming
12 to quickly identify so that they could make
13 sure the children can graduate. We still have
14 people everyday that are newly homeless. We
15 have repeat -- I don't want to call them
16 offenders. We have people who are homeless,
17 you know, several times in one year, but we
18 have people who are newly homeless. And if you
19 are working and you're talking to folks, you
20 see a lot of folks who are between the age of
21 18 and 25 that are homeless. So as we
22 incorporate this plan, and we're going to
23 aggressively go after some things, I would like
24 to see us aggressively go after solving the
25 newly homeless, getting them in programs and
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1 getting them off the streets as quickly as
2 possible. Pastor Jimmy does a great job of
3 that, but getting them off the street as
4 quickly as possible and if we can minimize the
5 numbers, it's easier to impact what's going to
6 be left. And if we minimize the numbers, then
7 the funds available for the services can
8 actually go out and help more folks because we
9 pulled more people off the street. Thank you
10 all. Good morning ---
11 (Laughter.)
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. All right. We're going
13 to call ---
14 MS. BERKOWITZ: Susan Berkowitz.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's Susan? Sue, you're up next.
16 After Sue, this page is done. And we have --
17 is Kathy Brown still here? (Inaudible.) And
18 then got Corey Goodwin and Thurmond Guess,
19 Junior. Okay.
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, this actually (inaudible)
22 sorry.
23 MS. BERKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and
24 members of the Council. I'm Sue Berkowitz and
25 I'm an attorney and a director with South
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1 Carolina Appleseed Legal Justice Center and
2 it's way past my bedtime so if I sound like I'm
3 slurring, I promise it's just cause I'm tired.
4 I want to thank you for the opportunity to
5 speak. I cater to my -- because I have been
6 concerned about a lot of the proposals that I
7 have been reading and hearing about over the
8 last couple of months, I'm concerned about some
9 of the legalities of them and we're looking
10 into them because we don't know that we feel
11 comfortable with some of the ways we're
12 proposing how we should deal with the homeless.
13 But I am encouraged like Reverend Cooper
14 because I did hear some really wonderful
15 proposals tonight. Nancy, I want to tell you
16 I'm really just so proud of the work that your
17 group has done, that we're talking about really
18 looking at the reasons for homelessness and why
19 people are finding themselves in chronic
20 poverty. And to look at real solutions and
21 recognize that we don't just take people and
22 put them somewhere but what we really need to
23 do is think about what are the long term
24 solutions and what is the care that we give
25 people. We can't hide poverty, we're never
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1 going to make poverty leave the city. What we
2 need to do is address it head on and instead of
3 trying to move it outside, what we need to do
4 is think about why are people finding
5 themselves in these situations. For some it's
6 mental illness, for some it's release from
7 prison. There are a lot of things that we need
8 to be looking at and things that we need to be
9 developing as a community, as a group, at --
10 before we decide that we have to hide what
11 we're -- what we don't like to see. Many
12 cities are facing homelessness, many cities are
13 addressing it in compassionate ways. I'm glad
14 we're looking at real compassionate solutions
15 and Cameron, I know that you're not proposing
16 what -- the solutions that you've come with,
17 you are saying Columbia cares and I do believe
18 Columbia cares. But I think that what we have
19 to do is maybe rethink some of the ways we're
20 looking -- that you're addressing and saying we
21 can't make just poverty leave the city but we
22 have to address it head on. So, I apologize
23 for rambling at 1:00 in the morning and not
24 being as coherent as I could. I promise you,
25 when I came here at 6:00, I really had a much,
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1 much stronger preach to make. So I'm going to
2 walk away now for everybody so that we can all
3 go home as well.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Sue.
5 MS. DEVINE: One thing and -- is probably -- one of
6 the things you told me that ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We still have (inaudible) sorry.
8 MS. DEVINE: --- was that you had -- that you and
9 another law firm were looking at some stuff and
10 would be prepared to provide that report?
11 MS. BERKOWITZ: We are. We're looking at a legal
12 memorandum because of our concerns of
13 criminalizing homelessness. And I think that
14 there's really strong -- there's been strong
15 case law on that, and we hope to have something
16 in another week or two. I -- we didn't know
17 that this was going to be coming quite as
18 quickly as it did come before the proposal, and
19 so we will have something for you recognizing
20 that we can't just take people and -- and
21 Cameron, I'm not saying -- I'm probably using
22 bad words because I'm tired right now, but the
23 idea of putting people in a retreat outside of
24 Columbia, by telling people if they come to
25 Columbia that we're going to enforce laws
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1 against them, that we're going to be enforcing
2 against everyone by identifying people because
3 they are homeless and they have a telephone
4 number, specifically for people to be calling
5 in and reporting them. We're going to be
6 looking at all of those issues because I think
7 that we do care as city. We can do really
8 important and compassionate things to be
9 dealing with people with the different problems
10 that they're facing, with the different
11 challenges that they're facing, while
12 addressing the concerns of the business
13 community. But we feel -- we have real
14 concerns about the idea of telling people that
15 once they're placed outside of Columbia as they
16 are labeled homeless that they can't come back.
17 MR. RUNYAN: I want to ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Please ---
19 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible) Columbia, the unfortunate
20 thing is Mr. LaBlanc's headline the other day.
21 I want to make crystal clear, nobody's talking
22 about criminal -- let me -- just let me speak
23 ---
24 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah.
25 MR. RUNYAN: Nobody's talking about criminalizing
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1 homelessness. We are talking about enforcing
2 the same laws that you and I (inaudible). You
3 are not allowed -- you're not allowed to be
4 drunk in somebody's front yard. You're not
5 allowed to use the bathroom on Mr. William's
6 steps. You're not allowed to sleep in
7 somebody's porch, which happens all the time
8 downtown. And all the other various things
9 that -- that go on down there. What we're
10 talking about is enforcing the existing laws
11 fairly and equitably for everyone across the
12 board, everyone. That's what we're talking
13 about. Now ---
14 MS. BERKOWITZ: The current address ---
15 MR. RUNYAN: Well, just let me finish ---
16 MS. BERKOWITZ: Okay.
17 MR. RUNYAN: --- and then you can respond.
18 MS. BERKOWITZ: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
19 MR. RUNYAN: Number two is what is truly not
20 compassionate is the leaving humanity on the
21 streets of this city with no hope or no help
22 and no passport (ph). And quite honestly, for
23 those -- and I'm not pointing fingers at you,
24 but for -- and I've got those e-mails from
25 folks who don't want anything, they don't want
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1 us to do anything. But what they're arguing
2 for is for the status quo. They're arguing for
3 humanity to be left on the streets of this city
4 and in my mind, that is the most inhumane thing
5 that we can possibly do. So, that's just --
6 that's just where I am on it. But I just
7 wanted to share that with you. I will ---
8 MS. BERKOWITZ: Well, I do want you to know my
9 concerns came way before I ever read Mr.
10 LaBlanc's headlines. Actually it came from the
11 PowerPoint that you had presented to everybody
12 and that's where the sentence came from. So,
13 either you're not articulating what you're
14 truly -- well, I don't think there's a plan
15 there actually. I think the retreat and
16 talking about 10 to 15 miles outside of
17 Columbia where we're going to be putting
18 homeless people, that speaks for itself. So
19 that did not come from a headline and that's
20 what raised my concerns as an attorney. I am
21 concerned about people who are living on the
22 streets. I don't think that's a compassionate
23 way for us to be dealing with the poor. In the
24 30 years that I've been working with the low
25 income community and dealing with poverty
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1 issues, I've never thought that we've ever
2 dealt with it compassionately. But I don't
3 think -- and I'm quoting what I heard you say,
4 we're going to move poverty out of the city.
5 UNKNOWN MALE: Huh.
6 MS. BERKOWITZ: That's not how we -- that -- moving
7 it is not going to make poverty go away.
8 UNKNOWN MALE: When did I say that?
9 MS. BERKOWITZ: When you were doing your
10 presentation.
11 UNKNOWN MALE: When?
12 UNKNOWN MALE: Tonight.
13 MS. BERKOWITZ: Tonight, tonight.
14 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
15 MS. BERKOWITZ: And you may -- maybe you were as
16 tired as I am now you used words that were
17 unfortunate and you didn't need to use. But I
18 agree, we do need to be dealing with the people
19 who are in living in poverty compassionately,
20 we do need to be providing food, we do need to
21 be talking to the Columbia Housing Authority
22 and wondering why do we have waiting lists of
23 7,000 people. It isn't right for anybody to
24 live in the street if they don't choose to.
25 But what we're not doing is addressing court
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1 issues. When we talk about people not being
2 able to get jobs because when they make their
3 application for work, they can't even get the
4 interview, even through they're eligible,
5 because they have to put yes, I was arrested.
6 Because there's a stigma placed on someone
7 because they may not be dressed how you and I
8 are dressed downtown. Because they may be
9 sitting on a park bench because they're tire.
10 We need to be thinking about really positive
11 solutions.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Well, why don't -- and I'll just
13 (inaudible) this so we can move on. Why don't
14 you and I or anybody else on Council who wants
15 to dialog about this going forward make sure
16 that, you know, that -- I want to hear from you
17 what your all's thoughts are legally on where
18 we are with enforcing laws and, you know, can
19 we treat people equally under the law. I mean,
20 those are questions that I think we need to
21 have answered and clarity. So let's just --
22 let's dialogue on it ---
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: People are upset.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and we'll make it -- we're all
25 move forward (inaudible).
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1 MS. BERKOWITZ: We'll try to.
2 UNKNOWN MALE: Thank you.
3 MS. BERKOWITZ: Okay, thanks.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Sue.
5 (Applause.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sue, we gotta find another
7 committee for you to serve on, Sue.
8 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We have -- yes, ma'am. And after
10 -- we have Ms. Brown ---
11 MS. BROWN: Cathy Brown.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- we have -- I think it's -- is
13 it Maria Calef? I'm not sure if Ms. Maria is
14 still here from Bywood Drive. Then we have
15 Pamela Greenlaw. Ms. Greenlaw?
16 MS. GREENLAW: I'm here.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Either one of those two. Okay, Ms.
18 Greenlaw, then you're up next it appears.
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And then we have Jean Denman, if
21 Ms. Denman's here. And just -- just for those
22 of you who are keeping count, we're down to the
23 last seven people, all right?
24 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Don't get too happy, don't get too
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1 happy. But if we are right, that means 21 more
2 minutes.
3 MS. BROWN: Mayor, Council members, I just want to
4 say thank you for having me -- allowing me to
5 speak. I just have a couple comments. I
6 really hadn't look at neither of the plans.
7 I'm sort of a bottom line person, to kind of
8 see what goes on and then how it's going to go.
9 Cause no matter where you go, I -- I'm with
10 Veterans Formation, I work with homeless
11 veterans and I'm just speaking as a -- I'm a
12 licensed human services practitioner. And no
13 matter where you go, what you do and what not,
14 I believe our issues, as Ms. York -- Mr. York
15 has stated also, we are not processing the
16 homeless as quickly as we need to. They are
17 staying on there too long.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
19 MS. BROWN: We don't have enough case managers, the
20 case managers that we have are not properly
21 trained. We have a diverse group, you cannot
22 bring somebody with an associate and say here,
23 talk to homeless. You just can't. You try to
24 get them out there but it takes special
25 training in a sense to get out there to really
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1 do because it is so much because you really
2 have to get in there, work with a client,
3 finding out what is the issue. If you don't
4 know what to ask, you don't know what do,
5 you're actually keeping them out there longer.
6 And that's kind of what it is. We have -- even
7 -- I've worked with the homeless 20 plus years.
8 How I go at it, we have a group that wanna be
9 homeless, they're not going anywhere.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
11 MS. BROWN: We have some that wanna get off.
12 Regardless of which category they're in, we
13 have to take care of them. So the ones who
14 ain't going nowhere, we have to meet their many
15 needs. We already know we don't need to spend
16 all day. If they want a blanket, whatever they
17 need, we get it. We just can't throw them away
18 and said oh, they're never going to get off the
19 street. We still have to serve them.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
21 MS. BROWN: And for the ones -- and the younger ones
22 are getting -- it's -- the population --
23 there's no reason for our young ones to be out
24 there, that once they get out there and they
25 get caught up, it is hard to bring them back.
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1 So one of the first things a case manager needs
2 to do is we need to try to get them back home.
3 Try to get them back home, try to get them in
4 school, but if we don't have those trained case
5 managers to actually do that job, they stay on
6 there longer and the longer they stay out
7 there, we -- it's almost like it's hard to
8 bring them back. So I know particularly, if I
9 get a call, if I see young ones, I put them in
10 school somewhere. So you've got four years to
11 figure out or two years to figure out where
12 you're gonna go after that. Because they're
13 going to need schooling anyway. So I try to
14 get them off -- I don't get into so much as why
15 you're out there, I focus on getting you off
16 then I figure out why you're out there and work
17 on the things. There is just too much going
18 out on the streets to leave them there. So I
19 just say, no matter where we put them, our case
20 managers, we need them, even if we put them at
21 the winter shelter, we have got to have those
22 case managers there. From the time somebody
23 walks in the door, somebody has to have them.
24 If not, we're just storing. That's it. Thank
25 you.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, thank you.
2 (Applause.)
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Again, with Ms. Maria Calef, maybe,
4 if she's still here. If not, Ms. Pamela
5 Greenlaw, Ms. Jean Denman, Mr. Larry Sypolt and
6 Mr. William Sweat, in that order.
7 MS. GREENLAW: Thank you very much.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
9 MS. GREENLAW: This has been a great session. I've
10 learned a lot coming here. I'm sorry that we
11 had to come here again to listen to the various
12 people who are working with the homeless
13 because -- well, I don't -- hopefully, Mr.
14 Cameron will come back. The process for the
15 Columbia Cares and I know we are not here for
16 that but yet it is all one big ball of wax. So
17 I'm going to go ahead and address that. But
18 that -- it was -- it was abbreviated, it was
19 opaque, it was hurried. A number of us
20 adamantly supported Mr. Runyan's original idea
21 of setting up stakeholder open -- open
22 stakeholder meetings that would be public --
23 publicly advertised as solution-oriented
24 sessions -- then we would have the committee
25 working, or coming to it, we would have Jean's
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1 group coming to it. That hasn't happened. And
2 everyone's saying well, we never work together.
3 Why are we not having open, planned -- okay,
4 here's a session. Why are we not doing that?
5 So when -- and Mr. Cameron, here's your
6 question. I hope you're here to answer it
7 tonight. When will -- cause my time's going to
8 run out. When are the plans being explained
9 directly by the planners, rather than by the
10 newspaper; and when are the next steps of open,
11 transparent forums so we can all come into the
12 same room at the same time. We shouldn't have
13 to keep you all up all the time. These things
14 need to be planned. And if Mr. Cameron wants
15 to be the hub, yay, I'm talking to you.
16 MR. RUNYAN: I'm sorry.
17 MS. GREENLAW: Oh, listen, I know, you are needed so
18 (inaudible).
19 (Laughter.)
20 MS. GREENLAW: We're probably never -- we're
21 probably never (inaudible) to having
22 (inaudible) out and shipped out of town.
23 (inaudible) . I know my time's going to run
24 out.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No. The question, Cameron, was
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1 about ---
2 MS. GREENLAW: Okay, please wait. I'm going to
3 question -- repeat what I was saying. Your
4 idea that you had, Mr. Cameron -- Mr. Runyan --
5 we are in the South, we use the first name ---
6 MR. RUNYAN: (Inaudible.)
7 MR. GREENLAW: --- is that you were to have open,
8 public forums to which you invite all the
9 stakeholders, that hasn't happened yet.
10 MR. RUNYAN: Oh, it has happened.
11 MS. GREENLAW: No.
12 MR. RUNYAN: We did that. We -- I went on every TV
13 station promoting it. I went on ---
14 MS. GREENLAW: Promoting what? I'm sorry.
15 MR. RUNYAN: Promoting the open forum. Went on half
16 the radio stations in this city, did print
17 interviews promoting it, the City PR Department
18 promoted. We had open forums that were
19 extremely well attended. It ran for many hours
20 where people provided input, which is where the
21 goals came from that were in the original plan.
22 MS. GREENLAW: Well, (inaudible)? And you said you
23 had a variety of (inaudible). And yet we're
24 still meeting each other here rather than at
25 the open sessions that you had? So when would
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1 the next open, public sessions going to be?
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think it's -- I think it's
3 important. I think we are going to have
4 establish that as a council ---
5 MS. GREENLAW: I think so.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and I think that what I'm
7 hearing from there and here is that the ongoing
8 dialogue and plan -- long-term planning is
9 going to have to include some of the folks on
10 that list of our -- a great (inaudible)
11 committees that are working on this. And then,
12 there's some short-term things that we can do
13 together for the long-term plan, which I think
14 will need a very lengthy discussion about the
15 retreat and all those other issues, and the
16 legal issues concerned around that and
17 (inaudible). That's a separate discussion I
18 think we all need to have together and I think
19 it's going to be up to us to commission that
20 happening, and happening posthaste. But the,
21 we'll -- we will get an open process where
22 everyone continues to have discussion ---
23 MS. GREENLAW: Okay. And those are the kind -- that
24 is kind of thing you do want to put in the
25 water bills, put meeting (inaudible) and for
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1 those things ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) the water bill
3 (inaudible) ---
4 (Laughter.)
5 MS. GREENLAW: Well, what I'm saying ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
7 MS. GREENLAW: --- someone earlier -- someone
8 earlier said, you know, you can't educate
9 through that, true, but that is where you can
10 put public announcements ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
12 MS. GREENLAW: --- and I don't -- if -- I won't have
13 to be on the right station at the right time
14 for the public service announcement.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And you can do -- and you can get
16 that to everyone except for the homeless. We
17 gotta make sure that we put -- engage the
18 (inaudible) ---
19 MS. GREENLAW: I'm -- I agree. Thank you ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, but I didn't -- I mean that's
21 gotta be our (inaudible) as we move forward,
22 that a number of the conversations that we all
23 have and we need to continue having individual
24 conversations, talk to each other one and one,
25 but we can't have them in silos and everyone
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1 has to be ---
2 MS. GREENLAW: Well -- exactly.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
4 MS. GREENLAW: Right now it's like there's a hub ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
6 MS. GREENLAW: --- and then there's a group of
7 peers. The peers are ---
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
9 MS. GREENLAW: --- peers are (inaudible) shall meet
10 ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
12 MS. GREENLAW: --- and talk to one another.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's correct ---
14 MS. GREENLAW: Thank you very much.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Greenlaw.
16 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible), if I might, ask the next
17 speaker who's coming forward -- not to stop
18 that (inaudible) but if Council could perhaps
19 be thinking about, as we're wrapping up the
20 public input session.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. The next ---
22 MS. WILSON: I remember (inaudible) so that if
23 you're going to be on the record with staff
24 about ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I gotcha.
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1 MS. WILSON: --- (inaudible) the short-term proposal
2 that we're going to -- (inaudible) want to get
3 that and even (inaudible). I think it needs
4 (ph) a little bit more (inaudible). September
5 1, I'd have to -- don't think we could
6 (inaudible) that. If we get the direction
7 tonight, we can shoot for September 15.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
9 MS. WILSON: We've got (inaudible) many issues ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. Let me (inaudible) require
11 some time for affirmative direction ---
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Sure.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- tonight. And I think -- and I
14 think most people on this list actually aren't
15 here. Is Ms. Denman still here?
16 (Applause.)
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Stop that now. I ---
18 (Laughter.)
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is Mr. Sypolt still here? Tell
20 Larry he can't pack it in early now. Mr.
21 Sypolt is not here. William Sweat? After Ms.
22 Denman, the Duffields, are even the Duffields
23 still here? Well then, after Ms. Denman, we'll
24 hear from Ben Green and then the last person,
25 is Dr. Thompson here?
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. And we're down to the
3 last three, huh? Unless someone else is signed
4 up I don't know about. If so, let me know.
5 But Ms. Denman, thank you now.
6 MS. DENMAN: And thank, Mr. Mayor, and the members
7 of City Council, and thanks to all the good-
8 hearted people who've made some really
9 wonderful suggestions tonight. A quick aside,
10 Mr. Mayor, next time you invite me to a
11 meeting, remind me to bring a coat. I've been
12 shivering here.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I have mine ---
14 MS. DENMAN: Six hours. I'm Jean Denman. I live at
15 1546 ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Somebody give the lady a coat,
17 please.
18 MS. DENMAN: I think Mr. Charles was -- maybe had to
19 turn up (inaudible) ---
20 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
21 MS. DENMAN: Thank you.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Where has southern chivalry gone
23 to?
24 MS. DENMAN: Thank you. I live at 1546 Main Street,
25 right in the heart of what is considered a
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1 problem. I have lived there eight years and as
2 far as my perceptions go, I haven't had any
3 change in the interactions with the homeless
4 over that period so there has been no crisis in
5 my mind or that of a lot of other people in the
6 neighborhood either. But I think what's
7 happened is Main Street has developed a whole
8 lot of new merchants that come in, a whole lot
9 of new professionals come in -- have come in,
10 and that's a wonderful thing. They perceive
11 the homeless to be a deterrent to their
12 businesses and they, of course, want their
13 businesses to be viable and so do I as I
14 support them in every way that I can. However,
15 I was also concerned about what I read in the
16 newspaper and I was glad to see, or to hear
17 tonight, that the plan may have been toned down
18 some. I didn't hear anything tonight about
19 citizens reporting other citizens, which
20 sounded really police state to me, and I'm glad
21 that that wasn't mentioned tonight. I crossed
22 off most of the things that worried me because
23 they've already been said and there's no point
24 at this time of the morning in repeating
25 things. But it still worries me a bit that the
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1 plan lumps together the homeless, the mentally
2 ill and former criminals and prisoners as if
3 they're one category of people. And there is
4 already enough of a notion in people's minds
5 that the homeless are criminals, that we don't
6 want to do anything, I think, in order to
7 enhance that. Jaja spoke about a lot of the
8 homeless wanting jobs and one of the things
9 that is very harmful to them in trying to get
10 jobs is this idea that the homeless are
11 criminals. I came here tonight because living
12 in the downtown neighborhood, I hear a lot
13 rumors floating around and I was hoping to come
14 away with some facts. And maybe I missed it,
15 but I didn't see a member of the Downtown
16 Neighborhood Association listed as a member of
17 the oversight committee. And if not, I really
18 think there should be. We're there, and we're
19 hearing a lot of the -- a lot of things. What
20 I'm seeing on my e-mail and what I'm hearing on
21 the streets about -- are things such as other
22 communities are bringing their homeless and
23 mentally ill to Columbia. And I mentioned that
24 to Councilman Newman, who says that you all
25 hear the same things but as far as getting
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1 (inaudible). If there's anyway to find out if
2 this is true, it would be nice to be able to
3 deal with that. The second thing is -- I hear
4 is if -- there are a lot more mentally ill
5 people on the streets, and I believe I heard
6 Nancy Stoudemire say there are more mentally
7 ill but I don't know if it's out of proportion
8 to the general increase in the homeless
9 population. I would be interested, if there
10 are more mentally ill people walking the
11 streets of Columbia, why that would be.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
13 MS. DENMAN: Third thing I'm hearing is that the
14 homeless have become much more aggressive, and
15 what I have read is that crime has dropped in
16 the downtown neighborhood. I would -- I would
17 really like to know whether we are seeing more
18 crimes that we can truthfully attribute to the
19 homeless. I think right now we tend to pin
20 every crime that's committed on the homeless
21 and I feel sure this isn't the case. These are
22 the things I would like to know more about and
23 I think it'd be really helpful within the
24 downtown neighborhood if we were operating on
25 more factual information rather than just a lot
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1 of hearsay, which I guarantee is going around
2 like wildfire. Thank you.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ms. Denman. Ben Green?
4 And then Dr. Thompson and ---
5 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
7 MS. PLAUGH: What is, I mean, (inaudible) could we
8 -- do we know, I mean, has crime dropped in the
9 downtown area? I know crime has dropped all
10 over the city ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
12 MS. PLAUGH: --- as a whole but I'm just curious ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Crime has dropped citywide in every
14 category, with the exception of automobile
15 break-ins.
16 MS. PLAUGH: So, do we know how that plays out in
17 the downtown area?
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We can certainly have the numbers
19 for District II. I'm sure Chief could
20 (inaudible) ---
21 CHIEF STEWART: --- crime reporting is not exactly
22 ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah.
24 CHIEF STEWART: --- the type of crimes we're talking
25 about ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah.
2 CHIEF STEWART: The National Crime (inaudible) will
3 be violent crimes ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah.
5 CHIEF STEWART: --- and property crimes, it doesn't
6 count the ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's probably life issues. It's
8 probably life issues.
9 MS. PLAUGH: Okay. So, if we could get the other
10 data, that'd be helpful.
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And (inaudible) tell me more about
12 where the yellow shirts respond, and that's
13 still here.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You have those things (inaudible)?
15 MR. KENNELL: I think everything for everybody
16 (inaudible) true. I mean, we certainly have
17 seen more complaints about homeless people
18 getting (inaudible) or something than we've
19 seen in the past. But as far as the crimes
20 (inaudible) I think (inaudible) still
21 (inaudible).
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: This is an ongoing (inaudible) ---
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now, you all, now -- I'm going --
24 I'm going to keep letting you all participate.
25 The only challenge is that we can hear you but
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1 those who -- who are watching us elsewhere
2 cannot. So, I mean, and I think they're all
3 valuable comments so as we move forward and you
4 don't want us to get up, I'm not sure how
5 (inaudible) a little while, but I think this is
6 important we get the mike -- get conversations
7 on the microphone. Ben Green?
8 MR. GREEN: All right. Mayor Benjamin, Council,
9 thank you for your time. It's about 1:00
10 o'clock right now. We're not in a club, we're
11 not drinking champagne, so I think it -- it's
12 an unfortunate thing. Hopefully, next time we
13 will be or at least we'll have it at a more
14 appropriate time ---
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What time is it -- what time is it
16 Pacific ---
17 MR. GREEN: It's actually 2:00 o'clock p.m. in Japan
18 if that makes you feel (inaudible) tonight.
19 And I'm on the clock actually so (inaudible)
20 start talking. My name's Ben Green, I'm the
21 MEBA chair of the Midlands Education and
22 Business Alliance chair this year. And before
23 I get into to some of the other comments, I
24 think -- I think we have a lot of friends and
25 allies here in the room today. Everybody has,
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1 you know, very valid points about it, so I will
2 offer one solution. On the MEBA site, we do
3 have resources for G -- for folks that want to
4 get GEDs, and folks who want to, you know, want
5 to deal with early dropouts, and also with, you
6 know, folks that need to get some workforce
7 development. So, we'll offer that from MEBA in
8 -- in fact, Cameron actually introduced me to
9 some folks that have created a fantastic GED
10 program so that's something that we can
11 immediately maybe help, you know, some homeless
12 with. I'm also a former business recruiter for
13 the South Carolina Department of Commerce and
14 actually just moved back here from overseas
15 about a -- about 12 months ago. And I can --
16 I can say I don't know exactly what the count
17 was in 2011 as far as homelessness is
18 concerned, but I can certainly say from my
19 standpoint, that the issue has been increased
20 and the number of homeless on the streets has
21 increased noticeably since I got, you know,
22 since I left two years ago and I got back here.
23 And so -- and I don't think that it actually
24 really matters what the exact number was in
25 2011 versus 2013, the only thing that matters
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1 is, you know, what people perceive and what
2 people see on the streets right now. So as far
3 as, you know, as far as where I see the
4 homeless and where I've encountered them, you
5 know, you have the library, and they do do a
6 fantastic job but we have a lot of loitering
7 outside in the library. You know, Finley Park,
8 1201 Main, I've been hit up, you know, a couple
9 of times for money. The YMCA, the other day,
10 you know, I was hit up for some sort of money
11 or whatever. The museum, I don't think I've
12 ever been by the Columbia Museum of Art and not
13 seen some homeless people hanging out and, you
14 know, it's -- a lot of times actually at the
15 museum, they're not really causing a problem
16 but, you know, they are there. And, you know,
17 it's important to consider the impact that this
18 plan is going to have with the homeless. It's
19 also important to consider the impact that this
20 issue is having on the downtown residents, on
21 the downtown, you know, workers and patrons of
22 the restaurants and businesses. Also, the
23 business owners who have spoken at the downtown
24 churches. Also, the tourists and economic
25 development community, and then also any future
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1 residents or investors who we may or may not be
2 aware of are coming to Columbia and seeing
3 Columbia and then comparing it to other cities.
4 So, you know, I think businesses are losing
5 some money and we're losing some potential
6 residents to Columbia and we're also losing
7 some competitiveness. So, you know, I think --
8 I think everyone is tired of this situation and
9 I, you know, I feel sorry for you all because
10 you all have been dealing with this, you know,
11 for the better part of 20 years and so, I think
12 it's time now to move together and (inaudible)
13 the best of these plans, you know, adopt the
14 Columbia Cares plan with some tweaks, with some
15 modifications from the other -- the other
16 alliance members here, and then move this city
17 forward for once and all. But the one thing I
18 can say is doing nothing, or doing the same
19 thing we've been doing for the last three to
20 five years is certainly not an option so I
21 thank you for your time once again and hope we
22 can move forward.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, Ben, glad to have you
24 home now.
25 MR. GREEN: Thank you.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Dr. Thompson, you have the last
2 word. Well, almost last word.
3 DR. THOMPSON: Thank you for staying and listening.
4 I appreciate all the hard work from the
5 homeless committee, you know, these people are
6 volunteers and they put in a lot of hard work
7 and effort and I think they have a lot of great
8 recommendations and ideas come out of the plan.
9 And I also appreciate Cameron Runyan's effort
10 because I think that he does appreciate that
11 businesses want relief. And I think that
12 there's a lot of good ideas in this plan as
13 well. So I'm encouraged by the dialogue and
14 obviously by everyone staying this late, there
15 is a lot of people who care about the issue and
16 want to develop a great plan. So going
17 forward, I think we need to take the best ideas
18 from the report and the best ideas from this
19 plan, and merge them together. And also allow
20 other people to express new ideas that might
21 help the initiative ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
23 DR. THOMPSON: --- and consider any idea that anyone
24 wants to put out. I have some ideas myself.
25 I'm not going to keep you here all night but I
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1 -- what I do like about Cameron's plan, or Mr.
2 Runyan's plan, is that he understands that
3 businesses want to -- business owners and
4 business people want to get the homeless off
5 the streets and they also want to connect them
6 with help. And I think there's some other ways
7 that we could do this and incorporate aspects
8 of his plan and the homeless communities'
9 ideas. And business owners aren't, you know,
10 they really do want to help people so let's
11 keep that in mind. And I believe the city's
12 obligation is to have a plan in place. I'm not
13 an attorney but I think that we can enforce the
14 laws that we have in effect if we have a plan
15 in place. If we don't have a plan in place,
16 then we can't enforce the laws that we have in
17 effect. And I think if we put a plan in place
18 and have an opportunity to give homeless
19 individuals help, we're just giving them that
20 opportunity. If they refuse that opportunity,
21 then we don't have to allow loitering and open
22 peeing when there's another option in place for
23 them. So as a business owner in downtown
24 Columbia, I want to express some concerns, and
25 I'll be a little critical of some of the things
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1 because I want a better plan to develop. And
2 I want to express my concern that the recently
3 proclaimed homeless emergency in the City of
4 Columbia is not an emergency. I agree with
5 what others have said that it's a chronic
6 problem and not an acute emergency. We have
7 been dealing in our business with the homeless
8 problem in our practicing business for seven
9 years now, since we invested in downtown
10 Columbia. And our business is at 2014 and 2016
11 Sumter Street, right in the heart of the
12 homeless problem. I don't believe there's an
13 emergency and our business is opposed to many
14 aspects of the short and long-term plan that
15 was presented tonight. And I think we need to
16 tweak quite a bit, but incorporate some aspects
17 of it. And I think that The State newspaper
18 has sort of sensationalized things, you know,
19 by saying that businesses are lining up in
20 deliberate fashion behind the plan. We have
21 some concerns and we want more specifics about
22 any plan that's enacted before it goes into
23 effect. We want to have time to digest the
24 report given by the homeless committee and
25 discuss it, so we don't want anything enacted
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1 immediately. We've been dealing with the
2 problems that the homeless have created in our
3 neighborhood for years. They've gotten worse
4 but let's not declare an emergency. Let's work
5 hard for -- to incorporate a long-term plan
6 that will work. And it was, you know, a little
7 bit upsetting to me to read that there's an
8 emergency because there was one incident at
9 Mast General Store recently. We've had
10 numerous incidents over the past, especially
11 three years, three or four years. We've called
12 the police, we've called people on Council,
13 I've talked to the chief of police about it,
14 and no one's declared an emergency when we've
15 called. So, you know, we've lived with the
16 feeding next door at Ebenezer, the increased
17 foot traffic, the loitering for Transitions,
18 the feeding at Christ Central. Homeless people
19 urinating on our property. We had a -- a naked
20 person in our parking lot about three weeks
21 ago. It was a new patient to our practice, she
22 took care of it herself. She called the police
23 and then told us she took care of it for us.
24 So people ---
25 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Laughter.)
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1 DR. THOMPSON: --- you know, this is something that
2 we deal with. It's a chronic problem. I want
3 to see some relief but I want a plan that's
4 going to work.
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. -- Dr. Thompson, what on the
6 short-term plan do you disagree with?
7 DR. THOMPSON: On the short-term, I think -- okay.
8 Well, here are my concerns about the plan that
9 was presented, the short-term plan. I think it
10 doesn't address the need to address mental
11 health issues. And I think people are
12 concerned about how would we identify a person
13 who's loitering, who is obviously homeless,
14 who's naked in the parking lot. That person is
15 mentally ill if they do not have clothes on.
16 So, let's -- if you go -- if someone goes up to
17 them and say, oh, we want to connect you with
18 a service facility and they refuse, well,
19 they're not competent to make their decisions.
20 So we need a plan that is going to address
21 this. We don't need a brick and mortar new
22 building, we don't need to expand our
23 facilities if some of our service facilities
24 are not being fully utilized, especially cert
25 -- at certain parts of the year. We need to
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1 say how can we get people off the street. So
2 I would propose considering a different method
3 of getting people off the streets and directly
4 connected with a service provider, which we
5 have many people in the city who are service
6 providers. And I would -- I would consider
7 using a virtual system, United Way is -- has
8 developed such a system that would help this
9 and we could connect them right on the street
10 using -- using the police department in
11 conjunction with a licensed social worker
12 mental health expert to assess and triage that
13 person on the street and declare whether they
14 are, in fact, in their opinion mentally ill, in
15 need of help, even if they refuse help. For
16 those situations where people rarely
17 voluntarily go and get help. And they've done
18 this in Durham, North Carolina, and they've
19 been doing it for awhile and it's been working.
20 It's humane, it gets people connected with
21 help. And then it also would help the city by
22 getting the people off the street and connected
23 with a service facility.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure, okay. I guess -- I guess
25 (inaudible) I read -- was looking at in front
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1 of me. You guys still have that up in front of
2 you as well. And I don't see anything being
3 recommended in the short-term emergency
4 response being inconsistent with what you just
5 said too. I think it says that we'll move
6 people to the services that they'll need
7 throughout the day as well. Now certainly, I
8 think it's a great idea to also try ---
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Well, if they resist, we don't want
10 to ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh no, I think it's -- I think it's
12 a great idea to triage people immediately,
13 treat ---
14 DR. THOMPSON: Yeah.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- if you can diagnose that and
16 figure that out as well. I will tell you, and
17 I'm not disagreeing with you but I guess I'm
18 trying to figure out -- but I do think that we
19 need to make some direct and affirmative steps
20 forward tonight. I do believe that the long-
21 term plan and -- I'm sorry, I'll let you ---
22 DR. THOMPSON: Yeah.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'll let you finish and I'll ---
24 DR. THOMPSON: Well, I guess my concern ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
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1 DR. THOMPSON: My concerns -- I do like some aspects
2 ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am.
4 DR. THOMPSON: --- of the plan. I would want some
5 specifics regarding the plan, regarding how to
6 -- the -- how and who exactly would be
7 transporting the individuals to and from the
8 emergency response facility. We want to know
9 where pick up and drop off would be and how
10 that would affect businesses. We want open
11 feeding at Christ Central and all that
12 accompanies it to cease, but we don't want it
13 replaced with a transportation depot for
14 homeless people at Christ Central, across from
15 our business. That wouldn't make the situation
16 any better for us. What and if homeless are
17 transported to a centralized feeding facility,
18 do -- are they all going to be -- need to be
19 enrolled at that service facility or will they
20 be back on the streets, to roam the streets
21 after feeding. A few specifics need to be
22 addressed.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We need (inaudible) on the
24 oversight committee and maybe the long-term
25 planning committee too.
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1 DR. THOMPSON: Well, I think that we want -- we want
2 to hear the whole plan details before we do
3 something that might make the situation worse,
4 especially for businesses, that's where I'm
5 coming from. But we also want to help people.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think there are things -- I'm
7 sorry I'll let you finish (inaudible) ---
8 DR. THOMPSON: I guess I have concerned -- I'm
9 concerned about the plan because I don't
10 understand how one police officer can control
11 a crowd of homeless people that will -- that
12 many of them will want to leave the shelter to
13 engage in activities not allowed at the
14 shelter. Drugs, alcohol use, sex, crime
15 potentially. And the winter shelter is close
16 to downtown and ex-prisoners and others, I
17 think it's going to be hard to contain them.
18 And I think, you know, I think it'd be best to
19 hold off and develop a long-range plan to
20 eventually phase out the winter shelter and
21 scale it back to a small, expandable shelter
22 perhaps at the outskirts of town where it would
23 be within city limits and the city could
24 control it, but a more -- outside the business
25 improvement district. And I'm really concerned
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1 that additional tax dollars, believe it or not,
2 on a better plan where the city could have some
3 control on it instead of having one religious
4 organization run it. I think there might be
5 strings attached to that plan and I'm concerned
6 about that. And I think a better plan could be
7 developed if we would allow, say perhaps, the
8 United Way to help consolidate the services,
9 consolidate the feeding, consolidate I, you
10 know, identifying the service facility. But I
11 think the key is, and a lot of people have
12 brought it up, is having trained mental health
13 licensed social workers involved in the actual
14 triage on the street in a legal way that would
15 get people help and also get relief for
16 businesses.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. Thank you, I know you
18 were answering my question so -- but we're
19 going to wrap it up so we can ---
20 DR. THOMPSON: But how could -- how could -- what
21 could we do now? Is that what your question
22 is?
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, no. No, I think we're in
24 agreement.
25 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 DR. THOMPSON: Well, I think I'd like to enact
2 something, you know, why can't we start -- why
3 can't we start enforcement, you know, gradually
4 phasing in enforcement of anti-loitering and
5 ban open feeding by using -- starting to use
6 this virtual system now to get with a licensed
7 social worker mental health expert along with
8 police to connect people with service providers
9 right, you know, right at the time they're
10 identified as being in need. I think that
11 would be the place to start cause we have
12 service facilities that are not at capacity at
13 this moment. And then we could -- we could use
14 the winter shelter, you know, also when it
15 opens. But I wouldn't open it earlier.
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you. Thank you very much.
17 DR. THOMPSON: And so, I hope you can consider a
18 great plan develops out of this -- of all the
19 ideas and that would work for everyone. Thank
20 you ---
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you very much. Well
22 (inaudible) seem tire to clap now. Clap for
23 the woman, guys. When I ---
24 (Applause.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible.)
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We are at a point on the agenda,
3 and I'm not sure -- we'll deal with this issue
4 and I'm not sure if there are some other timing
5 issues that we can address tonight on the
6 agenda after we're done with this, but we'll
7 address -- it'll probably just be seven of us
8 looking at the (inaudible).
9 MS. WILSON: You just wanting run through, get a
10 break in or you want (inaudible)?
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. I -- and I ---
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) park representatives.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm sorry,
14 Camille.
15 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, wow, it's (inaudible).
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Wow, okay.
17 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
18 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
19 (Laughter.)
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm of the -- I'm the -- I'm of the
21 opinion, and I share Ben Green's assessment.
22 I haven't been in the Far East for the last few
23 years but I -- and I have been in downtown
24 Columbia, and I spend time -- there's rarely a
25 day that passes that I don't engage verbally in
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1 conversation with a homeless person in
2 Columbia. I do almost every day. I've met
3 with homeless in my office to talk about the
4 issues, I've stopped -- Matt and I have walked
5 -- have walked Main Street together addressing
6 some sometimes challenging situations. Chief
7 Stewart and I have done -- have done the same.
8 We're just -- we're just picking people's minds
9 and really trying to assess -- and I will tell
10 you, I remember sitting in front of the art
11 museum one day, it was actually Chief Stewart
12 and I, had just left Matt and -- outside and we
13 were talking to about four different people.
14 All four of them had different issues that they
15 were dealing with. One eventually told us he
16 had an issue with alcohol. Two folks were
17 working homelessly. They were working in the
18 food service industry, they were living in the
19 Masters Inn in the -- in West Columbia but had
20 to pay a taxi fare to get back and forth to
21 work. They had issues like transportation and
22 how would we could make transportation much
23 more available. I will tell you probably the
24 most (inaudible) opportunity I had over the
25 last several years was going out with Julie Ann
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1 Avin, ended up going to Mercy and having that
2 brief moment to talk to Tony. And I -- and
3 some of you all know Tony. If you don't know
4 him, believe you don't know. And I -- and they
5 -- these -- his heritage is -- he's Asian. I'm
6 not sure if he's Vietnamese or what have you,
7 but what we'd see (inaudible) coming on the
8 streets for years and always dressed in heavy
9 clothing walking all across the city, all
10 across the city. Most of you who have been
11 here any period of time are very familiar with
12 him. At some point in time, he found his way
13 off the street and into Mercy and got ---
14 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible) Mercy.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- he got on -- got in -- got on
16 to the House of Mercy, got onto the proper
17 meds. And I haven't seen him lately but I will
18 tell you, it shows you that we have hardworking
19 non-profits, some paid base, some just great
20 cultures of people who have been doing it for
21 years, some new organizations that come into
22 being, but a whole lot of folks. And -- but no
23 one in here in this room does not want to help
24 people. I think the work is being done
25 (inaudible) and not just to serve homeless
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1 people, it's just fantastic. And it continues
2 to help build this city and meet the needs of
3 the folks who have (inaudible) among us. I
4 believe (inaudible) those who have the least
5 amount of investment. But I -- but what I --
6 what I have observed, very similar to what Ben
7 Green said, he said I've seen a significant
8 increase in the number of people, in the number
9 of new people. Now, I'm not sure that -- I
10 wish you'd -- Connie, I'm sorry to bug you.
11 Put that last screen back up. On the streets
12 -- in the last year, seven months, I mean, it's
13 just -- it's just -- and it's just real.
14 Whether or not we wanna attribute it to
15 (inaudible) city dumping or -- of people or the
16 prisoner drop off issue or just a sign of the
17 economic times, someone may be -- well, you
18 know, this one man asked the question about the
19 increase of people that have mental health
20 issues. I will tell you that funding --
21 federal funding ---
22 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- state funding has progressively
24 been drying up over the years. And it's a --
25 it's a real challenge that, regardless of what
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1 the issue is, it's something that we have to
2 form a comprehensive response as to how we're
3 going to deal with it. And it will require
4 some leadership from the city, it will require
5 some leadership in the business community, it
6 will require some leadership in non-profits
7 and, again, it will require some leadership
8 from the faith community. What's most
9 important to me is that we find a thoughtful
10 way to move forward together. Nothing on the
11 short -- now, I think -- I think Tameika raised
12 some good questions. I don't see, other than
13 -- other than the financial expense, and we
14 have to make sure we get arms around the
15 finances and the commitments that are made by
16 the -- Christ Central and the city, that we can
17 meet the financial needs. But I'd rather have
18 someplace for people to go, someplace for
19 service providers to provide specific services
20 they provide, someplace for the 50 something
21 food services providers that range for churches
22 of the Northeast or from Lexington County, for
23 those downtown. But people not wanting to do
24 anything but feed the homeless, which I think
25 is a good thing. Can we centralize those
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1 efforts? I think some of the other issues that
2 I think are legitimate issues and not -- and
3 not -- I feel strongly about -- I want to see
4 what Sue Berkowitz and some of the others -- we
5 will talk about civil justice and civil rights
6 issues. I think that always very important to
7 keep that at the forefront of all that we do.
8 Those issues are long term. I think that we
9 need Ms. Stoudemire and some of the leadership
10 of the committee working with some of these
11 other folks who are also -- and I think
12 (inaudible) mentioned -- Ms. Denman also
13 mentioned maybe some residents from the
14 Downtown Neighborhood Association working not
15 only on the oversight committee but also long-
16 term planning committee. You know, I think
17 working together, no more silos, no more
18 private meetings, no more meetings -- I think
19 I mean every meeting we have, we ought to make
20 sure everyone's around the table and everyone's
21 working together to try and resolve some
22 solution. If the retreat winds up being part
23 of the eventual solution, I think that -- I
24 think that could be the name, maybe (inaudible)
25 name. But something that we can hash out
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1 together and we can make sure we've got
2 everybody working in the same direction. We're
3 working on a -- on a solution. So, I'd like
4 that the oversight committee and the long-term
5 planning committee to aggressively include
6 several of the members from our homeless
7 services advisory committee. I'd also like for
8 us to identify all of the things that are
9 immediately actionable in this (inaudible).
10 Several things are -- we can get going on.
11 Literally, I would say tomorrow, but today.
12 (Laughter.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We (inaudible). Let's start doing
14 that, I mean, because when you -- when you task
15 on with coming up with recommendations and
16 we're for it and the work is done, I think we
17 owe it to those who put the time and energy and
18 effort (inaudible) start acting, and I'll think
19 we'll all be better off by doing so. But, you
20 know, some of the -- some of the larger issues,
21 we'll have to figure out some collaborative
22 opportunity over the next several months. On
23 the short-term issues, whether you call it
24 emergency response or you just call it a narrow
25 response or immediate response, whatever it
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1 happens to be. Some people might think it's an
2 emergency, others may not. I will say it's
3 real. It is very real and it's affecting
4 quality of life downtown and at the very same
5 time, the quality of life for the people that
6 we're trying to serve. We're not meeting those
7 needs because I'm convinced that we're not
8 acting together and collaboratively. And we
9 can. And we can. And we can. So, I do -- I
10 do support us moving forward with the first
11 box, the short-term, call emergency response,
12 we can call it whatever you want to call it.
13 But I want to see leadership from the advisory
14 committee included in the next few phases. And
15 then we have -- we have to make some decisions
16 and -- and also just we -- a lot of the money
17 that goes into serving the homeless, it may
18 come from city coffers or may be funneled
19 through the city from the federal government or
20 other sources. But the vast majority of
21 resources, of time and energy and commitment
22 doesn't come from the city, it doesn't come
23 from the city. You guys are putting a whole
24 lot more than we ever could. And that -- and
25 that can be quantified too but it also has to
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1 be that, and we have to make sure that again --
2 I think we can do this. I think we -- I think
3 -- I think not doing anything now is
4 shortsighted. But I think that long-term
5 response with a collaborative -- a truly
6 collaborative way, planning -- Dr. Thompson,
7 you might not like it but you're (inaudible)
8 either way cause I think there's -- I think
9 there's some good ideas and I think -- I think
10 you bring a view to the perspectives at the
11 table that would be helpful and that -- and
12 let's all -- let's (inaudible) see how we can
13 move forward. I mean, how we can move forward
14 and do it together. I know everyone has
15 something to say, and some of you may -- it's
16 a perfect time, I want to -- I want to move
17 forward. Anyone else? Mr. Davis?
18 MR. DAVIS: Just one. I've looked at it and I'm
19 sure we'll continue to have some discussions on
20 it. One thing that has stood out with me, you
21 know, we've sort of touched on, Cameron, some
22 numbers here. They're not concrete but they do
23 suggest that, you know, as we move, get all the
24 entities that's gonna be involved, cost is
25 gonna be an issue. I think with that -- with
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1 the many resources and entities that are
2 mentioned or, you know, proposed to play a role
3 in this, I'd like to see us, at some point, be
4 as concrete as possible with everybody's
5 contribution, dollar sign.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
7 MR. DAVIS: I mean, I -- that's -- because we know
8 that everybody has resources. How much, what
9 -- where's the origin and what is the real
10 commitment to whatever this -- well, the short-
11 term, I don't have a problem with. But I think
12 the long-term is where we're going to be
13 measured in terms of the successes and impact
14 across the -- across the -- I don't think --
15 not just the city center because, you know,
16 this has the potential to impact across the
17 city, you know? So, I think that's going to be
18 very important. Do we know who's skin is in
19 the game and what it is.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Absolutely. Ms. Plaugh?
21 MS. PLAUGH: This has really been my first
22 opportunity to ask a few questions regarding
23 this proposal, and I had several. I don't know
24 what 1.7 million -- is that what it is --
25 consists of. I don't know what goes into those
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1 numbers. Does it include the vans and some
2 number of portable HVAC? Does it include the
3 officers? Are those all (inaudible)?
4 MR. RUNYAN: I think that law enforcement would be
5 ---
6 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) ---
7 MR. RUNYAN: --- a collateral -- a collateral cost,
8 yes.
9 MS. WILSON: It'll be police and fire, for me to
10 bring back (ph) the cost for startup
11 (inaudible). And obviously, utilities. I
12 (inaudible) the utilities have to be factored
13 in. The biggest thing that I would need to
14 take -- we need to go back and deal with a
15 building cooling and then there's power. So
16 again, if it -- if the rest the Council were
17 (inaudible) into the (inaudible) with this, we
18 think we can get you in there by September 15th
19 if we push real hard. We making (inaudible)
20 efforts (inaudible) get the direction, those
21 are the two big issues for -- from the staff
22 perspective.
23 MS. PLAUGH: But, I guess, to continue my question.
24 The van, then the driver and the van service
25 for the (inaudible) ---
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1 MR. RUNYAN: Right, we're going to work with our
2 community partners to cover (inaudible).
3 MS. PLAUGH: So that ---
4 MR. RUNYAN: We'll work within the -- what is --
5 what was (inaudible), we will work within the
6 confines of what we have allocated (inaudible).
7 MS. PLAUGH: Okay. And so, my next is how many do
8 we envision servicing as the cost of -- going
9 -- tying back to, you know, we want something
10 quantifiable so we -- I know we're going into
11 this venture, how many people do we envision
12 serving and how do we sustain it? Because --
13 do you -- do you have ---
14 MR. RUNYAN: No ---
15 MS. PLAUGH: --- thoughts about how you can -- you
16 don't sustain?
17 MR. RUNYAN: You don't sustain. It's not designed
18 to be sustained.
19 MS. PLAUGH: You don't ---
20 MR. RUNYAN: It's not -- No, it's designed to
21 terminate in a year or two. That's the whole
22 point is that we've got to move beyond this
23 emergency response to get into the long-term
24 response.
25 MS. PLAUGH: So we do this for a year and ---
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1 MR. RUNYAN: No ---
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Seven months.
3 MS. PLAUGH: Seven months, okay.
4 MR. RUNYAN: Seven months (inaudible).
5 MS. PLAUGH: Okay. All right. Okay.
6 (Laughter.)
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Devine?
8 MS. DEVINE: I had just a couple. One thing that I
9 thought about, you know, going back to my point
10 again of the need for work, the day shelter.
11 Craig, Transitions does a day shelter, is that
12 correct?
13 MR. CURREY: Yes.
14 MS. DEVINE: And so, are you at capacity with the
15 day shelter or ...
16 MR. CURREY: (Inaudible.)
17 MS. DEVINE: Coming? No. So again, I guess that
18 kind of goes back to my point is if we're going
19 to run it during the day, they're already is a
20 day shelter at Transitions, they have services
21 there. What is going to be the need for us to
22 run during the day? So I bring that again.
23 MS. WILSON: Well, my understanding this discussion
24 and the questions that ask the staff is that
25 Christ Central would handle the case management
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1 rather than contracting with Transitions, is
2 that not correct?
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I don't know.
4 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
5 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes, that's correct. The ---
6 MS. DEVINE: That -- I mean, I guess my question
7 still is why.
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Well ---
9 MS. DEVINE: I keep looking at -- if efforts, I
10 mean, if Christ Central -- I'm sorry,
11 Transitions has a day center -- shelter and
12 they have case management, and I understand the
13 women's shelter -- cause you all did a great
14 job of case management and you all work
15 together which I thought was excellent, that
16 all the providers worked together -- but what
17 is -- if you have space during the day at
18 Transitions and there is case management there,
19 what is the need for us to have a day center at
20 the winter shelter and also provide
21 (inaudible)?
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Craig can all homeless seek
23 services, excuse me, can all homeless use the
24 day center?
25 MR. CURREY: In the day, yes. From 8:30 to 5:00 ---
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The day.
2 MR. CURREY: --- you can come in if your 18 or
3 older, man or woman ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But they can't stay, not all -- and
5 that -- I think that -- I think that's the key,
6 having some type of continuity of services in
7 the same place for folks who might not qualify
8 or might not have space at Transitions. Being
9 able to have services met, have a day center
10 facility and also have a bed in one -- in one
11 place. I mean, you had (inaudible) to me and
12 the fact of the matter is that you're talking
13 about a 27/7 shelter operations that don't cost
14 the city taxpayer any additional dollars either
15 and so, I mean, so I think saying duplicative
16 services (inaudible) we have -- we have a
17 number of folks who are at the library during
18 the day, we have -- we have a number of folks
19 who are at -- who will be at Transitions during
20 the day. We have other folks who hopefully
21 will be able to (inaudible) these services
22 during the day. And our hope is that -- is
23 that they were available (inaudible) services
24 at one of the places, at one of the places.
25 But having another outlet, I don't think that's
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1 a bad idea, particularly when it's of no fiscal
2 impact to us.
3 MS. DEVINE: Okay. And that's ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I said (inaudible) I mean, I mean,
6 I mean, there's a number of different things
7 you can do, you know, I mean having these 50
8 something providers, I mean, which I think is
9 a wonderful thing. I think it's a wonderful
10 reflection of how charitable our community is.
11 I mean, the fact is that -- is that both
12 (inaudible) give their money and their food and
13 their time but -- therefore, being able to do
14 it in some type of a structured format I think
15 benefits every -- everyone. So -- but -- I'm
16 sorry, go ahead.
17 MS. DEVINE: --- Ann (ph) asked us a question, I
18 mean, certainly if it's not going to cost us
19 anything more. If there's two people there
20 during the day and it's doesn't cost us any
21 more then fine, but I -- I would like to know
22 a little bit more about the beds there and I
23 guess that would be in the contract that comes
24 forward to us. But I want some assurances that
25 it's not going to cost us any more. My
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1 understanding was last year we budgeted 500 and
2 we spent 580 something. And I know that there
3 wasn't this agreement last year that the
4 overage would be covered, but I just -- that
5 needs to be addressed that it -- and they're --
6 that it's going to be absorbed then that's
7 fine. And Jimmy, if you're saying yes, that's
8 going to be absorbed.
9 REVEREND JONES: Who got the money if there was an
10 overage because we certainly didn't.
11 MS. DEVINE: The documents we got said 580 ---
12 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
13 REVEREND JONES: (Inaudible) was 507 and 924 went
14 Transitions and 78 was the transportation
15 (inaudible) and 72 went to the security
16 company. And we operated the winter shelter
17 with no overages, no (inaudible) and no
18 (inaudible) emergency shelter beyond that. So
19 if it went beyond, it had to be (inaudible)
20 certainly (inaudible).
21 MS. DEVINE: Okay. Well, we can reconcile that
22 under the documents that we have, but we went
23 over budget.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible)?
25 MS. WILSON: We did and the city absorbed that cost.
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1 So, yes, I need to get back on cost for
2 services before we -- and fire and electricity
3 and if that prisoner drop off would be held at
4 the shelter, I need take that into account
5 (inaudible) for the (inaudible) because, you
6 know, certainly make sure that we, from a
7 liability standpoint (inaudible), and I brought
8 this up with Mr. Jones (inaudible) he agreed,
9 we need to work our way into all of this. But
10 it -- on a basic level, if we're directed to go
11 forward with the September 15th launch of this
12 (inaudible) proposal. I mean, I think we need
13 to know that (inaudible) attempt to address
14 cooling and power. We are (inaudible) power at
15 the shelter and we do not have a way to cool it
16 right now. Have to be able to cool it.
17 MS. DEVINE: Right.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
19 MS. DEVINE: And I am -- I think we have to do --
20 redo (inaudible) in order to do that, we need
21 some direction. I just -- I would like to have
22 some of those answers. I would certainly like
23 to see the contract and understand what else we
24 would be responsible for. And then, just a
25 question regarding the meals served there. We
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1 talked about that years ago and I -- I'm not
2 opposed to that idea. Just wondering is the
3 intention to talk with the providers and get
4 them to agree or is it going to be an ordinance
5 that we're going to be looked at -- asking to
6 implement to kind of mandate the feedings, or
7 how do we anticipate that happening?
8 MR. RUNYAN: I've already had some comments --
9 questions -- I've already had some preliminary
10 discussions with some of the folks who are
11 providing feedings and I can see that they are
12 committed to helping this city move forward in
13 a productive manner. It -- the same way that
14 Christ Central is coming to the table, I mean,
15 they're not making any money off of this.
16 They're going to lose money off of this. But
17 they're willing to bring the resources of 92
18 mission stations around the state to bear on
19 this city to help us. And that's really what
20 the crux of all this is, is getting everyone
21 pulling in the same direction, bringing shared
22 resources to bear to help this city and to help
23 -- to bring relief to the downtown businesses,
24 because that's why we're here with this
25 tonight. And to bring relief to those who are
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1 living on the streets. So, it may even have to
2 be a combination of things with the feedings.
3 I can tell you the discussions that I've had is
4 that people are eager to be part of moving
5 forward. We honestly have some latitude with
6 controlling feedings in the parks and other
7 things that we've talked about before as the
8 Council so there may be something that we can
9 do from that standpoint. But I anticipate that
10 we're going to have a lot of eagerness to
11 cooperate with people and be an example.
12 MS. DEVINE: And I just want to say, if it's
13 anticipated that there would be a necessity for
14 an ordinance, maybe that could be something
15 that Ms. Berkowitz could look at as well to
16 make sure we're addressing any issues
17 surrounding an act that could -- when we raised
18 this several years ago, I think it was Ken
19 (inaudible) -- we were in -- we were advised
20 that there might be some constitutional issues
21 with regulating feedings. So I just ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
23 MS. DEVINE: --- since we already have legal people
24 looking at that, if that could be anticipated,
25 I would suggest that we get that to them as
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1 well so that we -- that can be researched. And
2 then, just my last thing is the oversight
3 committee, to -- for clarity, and if it's not
4 the intention, my desire would be that our
5 current oversight committee, all the members
6 who are currently serving was to continue to
7 serve but all of them serve on the oversight
8 committee could be additional members as well
9 but that needs -- that -- all the members that
10 are currently serving will continue to serve on
11 that oversight committee.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: One problem with that, I mean,
13 that's -- I agree with that in spirit cause I
14 think probably you're talking about 30 people
15 that -- you're getting -- it going to be pretty
16 big. I think we could probably, based on the
17 committee's recommendations, come up with a
18 very representative group of folks that will
19 represent ---
20 MS. DEVINE: Well, that committees different that
21 the oversight committee. We -- the last three
22 to four years, we had an oversight committee
23 that has met with Jeff Rainwater and Jimmy and
24 other people on a monthly basis, is that
25 correct? And -- about the shelter -- when the
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1 shelter is operating. So, I'm not talking
2 about the ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: But ---
4 MS. DEVINE: --- advisory committee ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
6 MS. DEVINE: --- I'm talking about the winter
7 shelter oversight committee that has been in
8 place for several years now.
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I didn't speak, but I just wanted
10 to ask one question (inaudible) bring it up
11 there, it hasn't been addressed yet. So before
12 we ---
13 UNKNOWN MALE: I think that's true.
14 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- enacting, I mean, we -- a plan,
15 I would like my question about the
16 transportation and if those people will be
17 transported for feeding and then dropped back
18 off because that will not be a prudent
19 situation for downtown businesses.
20 MR. RUNYAN: The whole point is to bring relief to
21 downtown, that's the point. It wouldn't -- it
22 would not be a large flux of people like you
23 traditionally have during the winter when it
24 only runs at night. That's the whole point of
25 this approach ---
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: But will people (inaudible)
2 enrolled in that facility and ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's the -- that's the -- that's
4 the hope, that's the hope ---
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm just saying that ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, ma'am, that's the hope. And
7 our hope is that while they're there, they're
8 receiving some services there but they're also
9 being transported to other services around
10 town, wherever they might -- they might ---
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: And where would the transportation
12 drop off then because we don't want it to -- we
13 don't want people roaming to wait for
14 transportation and then going back and roaming
15 around. Where exactly, we want some specifics
16 before anything's (inaudible) clear, would
17 people be congregating to get the van
18 (inaudible)?
19 UNKNOWN MALE: We can think (ph) of answers also.
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I would think it should be
21 discussed and formerly vetted publicly before
22 we enact any plans. Because I think it would
23 affect businesses. That -- I think it's an
24 important question.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, ma'am. That's all
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1 right. Mr. Baddourah? And ---
2 MR. BADDOURAH: I'll be brief. I'm ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure.
4 MR. BADDOURAH: I'm -- just to kind of -- the
5 committee (inaudible). Tonight was the
6 public's first time speaking. One of the
7 recommendations (inaudible) today (inaudible)
8 as we heard from the gentleman earlier that
9 it's not really a guarantee that the homeless
10 will go to the winter shelter or day shelter
11 (inaudible). So an opening, you know,
12 (inaudible) through this and going through and
13 opening a shelter two months early doesn't
14 really, from what I've witnessed today, it's
15 not a guarantee that you're going to minimize
16 the homeless downtown. Christ Central, Jimmy
17 Jones, when they are ready for winter shelters,
18 they're never operated at the maximum 180, and
19 I've always asked that question. When you --
20 and he always make the comment when somebody
21 comes into the winter shelter drunk or
22 intoxicated, drugs, whatever, they will not
23 take them in. My concern is these people roam
24 around in the neighborhoods and backyards and
25 front yards of everybody. Not sure that I want
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1 to do that for the neighborhoods again, two
2 months early or whatever ---
3 REVEREND JONES: I think ---
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And Reverend Jones ---
5 REVEREND JONES: --- two months and I (inaudible)
6 answer. So, I think Christ Central would not
7 be a good candidate to help with this because
8 (inaudible) we ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Reverend ---
10 REVEREND JONES: --- we want to ---
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Reverend. Reverend Jones, come --
12 if you can speak, just -- and for the benefit
13 of the folks who are not in the heart of the
14 room, speak from the microphone. But I don't
15 think you have to right now, Jimmy. The --
16 now, let me say one thing too. I keep hearing
17 a few numbers floating by. I will tell you
18 that when I went to the winter shelter this
19 past winter, it was active (inaudible). And I
20 don't know -- I don't know what the numbers
21 were for each night, I'm -- I wasn't there
22 every night ---
23 REVEREND JONES: I can explain that, Mayor.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure.
25 REVEREND JONES: We took out 40 beds at the
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1 beginning of the season so that we could always
2 make more room to do some trainings, some
3 dialogue with the homeless, some re --
4 interaction with them, and then we bought cots
5 and on the nights when we had beyond the 202,
6 we went to the 240. But there were many nights
7 that it's -- a person came in and they
8 qualified for any program that had an open bed
9 then we certainly moved them to there.
10 Transitions opened an additional 40 beds at the
11 beginning of this season so you have 40 beds
12 that were opened up at the very opening of
13 winter shelter. So, you know, and the real
14 figure is not 180, it's 155 ---
15 MS. DEVINE: I think you told me also had some
16 people came that ended up qualifying for
17 another program ---
18 REVEREND JONES: That's correct. We move them to --
19 in recovery programs ---
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) but some people may not
21 have stayed there, they might have gone ---
22 REVEREND JONES: We moved them every night. Before
23 they went into the winter shelter, when they
24 were registered, they had to declare what their
25 emergency was, since it was an emergency
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1 shelter, what their goal was and then what they
2 needed help with. And sometimes, they did come
3 in (inaudible) stating -- say I need to get in
4 a recovery program and there is no shortage of
5 those that we do. We have all those numbers
6 and I -- but I think what we're seeing -- I've
7 learned so much tonight 'til I'm overloaded.
8 I realize there is so much more wisdom here
9 that can help us down the trail and there's so
10 much more that can probably done, and I am not
11 sure after hearing all this tonight. I don't
12 think Christ Central has the answers. I think
13 we came to the rescue last year when you asked
14 us to, we did all we knew to do. I'm not sure
15 we know any more so ---
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think ---
17 REVEREND JONES: --- we probably couldn't help any
18 more.
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think the answer, Jimmy, is I
20 think we have the answers working together.
21 But I -- I'm thankful for what Christ Central
22 has done and continues to do so I want to make
23 sure that that point's known. The -- let's --
24 other comments and questions?
25 MS. PLAUGH: It's really kind of an (inaudible) but
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1 a different approach it -- same topic but we
2 have not really talked about the requests that
3 we've heard over and over again from the
4 business community and I think from others
5 about safety. And I think that there was
6 thought that we would -- the committee, that we
7 get recommendations from our police department
8 as to what we might need to do to further
9 enhance that aspect of the -- if that's
10 something staff is looking into, can we expect
11 recommendation going forward?
12 MS. WILSON: We -- Chief Santiago has been at the
13 table when we've had the most recent
14 discussions along with (inaudible) staff out
15 there too, and we've been talking with Mr.
16 Jones. (Inaudible) planned to do two
17 (inaudible) ---
18 MS. PLAUGH: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
19 MS. WILSON: --- (inaudible) going the direction.
20 I think from safety wise or works wise or
21 general services wise, (inaudible), we're all
22 prepared to (inaudible) move in this direction
23 on a short-term basis if that is the will of
24 the Council. And I do believe even two months
25 ago when we were first asked to talk about it,
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1 we provided some recommendations on the safety
2 wise on what, you know, from a (inaudible)
3 safety (inaudible), could it not be done. We
4 still have the legal recommendations, we did go
5 back and look at recommendations in regards to
6 the emergency shelter operating on a
7 (inaudible) basis and ---
8 MS. PLAUGH: I'm saying -- talking about separate
9 from that ---
10 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) ---
11 MS. PLAUGH: That being said, in fact, what we've
12 heard in terms of -- from the church and from
13 other businesses, you know ---
14 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) ---
15 MS. PLAUGH: --- what can we do to try to strengthen
16 ---
17 MS. WILSON: Well, I think you're doing some things
18 that I don't want to get into, but I think --
19 or I know that the police department is doing
20 some things differently (inaudible) per the
21 vision (ph) of what we're doing on Main Street
22 in particular. They are (inaudible) ---
23 MS. PLAUGH: And do we need extra resources for that
24 if ---
25 MS. WILSON: Ideally, of course, if we are steady in
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1 and out (inaudible). I think the issues for
2 (inaudible) CPD is (inaudible) move there, I
3 mean, if we're -- and changing what the plan
4 is, so we know what the plan is -- I don't know
5 if that makes sense. But I mean, they're doing
6 -- they're entertaining some things now, to be
7 more pleasant, to ---
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Chief is doing a good job ---
9 MS. WILSON: --- moving people along ---
10 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.) I just ---
11 MS. WILSON: Yeah ---
12 MS. PLAUGH: --- I just feel -- I feel like we
13 weren't responding.
14 MS. WILSON: I think they are, but to say
15 (inaudible) issues (inaudible). I do think it
16 requires probably a different approach
17 (inaudible) again to get to that final long-
18 term solution, we're prepared to do whatever
19 you all direct as far as the short-term
20 solution ---
21 MS. PLAUGH: And that's the short-term, we are
22 addressing the safety ---
23 MS. WILSON: They are. They are very aggressive in
24 ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Any other comments?
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1 All right. Mr. Runyan, do you have a motion?
2 MR. RUNYAN: I don't know if they're even willing to
3 engage with us after ---
4 UNKNOWN MALE: (Laughter.)
5 MR. RUNYAN: --- after this tonight ---
6 UNKNOWN MALE: Well ---
7 MR. RUNYAN: --- but I would ask -- I know we have
8 an existing active contract with them from last
9 year and is that right?
10 UNKNOWN MALE: According to (inaudible) we said that
11 the ---
12 MS. WILSON: We (inaudible) ---
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Options for (inaudible) building.
14 MS. WILSON: We need to be in (inaudible) ---
15 MR. RUNYAN: Right.
16 UNKNOWN MALE: You know, what's today (ph)?
17 MR. RUNYAN: I would ask that we proceed to move
18 forward, attempt to open on September 15th,
19 working within the budgets here, funds that we
20 have of $500,000 we've allocated. Obviously,
21 there are going to ancillary costs that are
22 going to have to accounted for we need to know
23 about. I was hoping -- the business community
24 is very vocal that we need additional police
25 protection to protect commerce in this city and
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1 at some time, I think we need to be looking at
2 (inaudible). But I would ask staff to continue
3 to engage with Christ Central and to bring
4 back, if they're willing to again, bring back
5 something (inaudible) amended contract for this
6 Council to open that shelter 24/7 on September
7 15th or earlier if possible.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I don't -- and Cameron, I might --
9 but -- if we could ask the question and Ms.
10 Marks, you could probably answer it. The
11 oversight committee, how many people on the
12 current oversight committee that's been working
13 with the shelter, do you know?
14 MS. MARKS: Probably 14 to 16 at any meeting.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay. Let's -- we'll have to
16 figure out exactly -- we want a comprehensive
17 group cause I'd love to -- I'm not sure if,
18 like, for example, if Eau Claire Community
19 Health will coop and others are involved there,
20 but the oversight being the long-term planning
21 committee, let's make sure it's as inclusive of
22 the group as possible, everybody looking
23 forward. But I think that'd be great so we're
24 moving forward to adopt a plan, let's be -- but
25 I'd like to also make clear that all the
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1 immediate issues as identified from the
2 committee that we'll also start acting on
3 those. And that, of course, those (inaudible)
4 but they -- but they are the responsibility --
5 many of them are the responsibility of the
6 city, we can start (inaudible) that. But this
7 long-term process in which we talked about some
8 of the other more lightening rod-ish parts of
9 the plan, the (inaudible) and others, we gotta
10 flush those out as a community and talk about
11 those together and that long-term planning
12 process will allow us to do that. And we'll
13 figure out at the end of seven months exactly
14 how we're going to move forward together. I
15 second Mr. Runyan's motion. Ms. Devine?
16 MS. DEVINE: And just quickly, I know it's late. I
17 would say that -- and I hope it's just
18 (inaudible) and everything else, but I would --
19 I'm concerned that if Reverend Jones is angry
20 that people ask questions, I mean, this is the
21 first time we've had an opportunity to discuss
22 it and I think it's only fair for us to be able
23 to ask questions and ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Mm.
25 MS. DEVINE: --- if it's anger -- the question --
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1 it's not questioning anybody's expertise, but
2 it is we need to be able to make an informed
3 decision. So I would be somewhat disheartened
4 if, you know, if somebody gets angry cause we
5 ask questions and wants to walk away from doing
6 something that, you know, they wanted to do.
7 But with that said, I am -- I'm prepared to
8 give the city manager directions to get
9 everything together however I -- I mean, I
10 really would love for her to be able to
11 (inaudible) contract. I'd -- I would like to
12 see that and to make sure that some of these
13 questions are answered. And I also would like,
14 Ms. Wilson, if -- and I don't know what the
15 current contract says, I mean, cause I didn't
16 look at that, but some opportunity to review
17 the pilot, there's a lot of new stuff here. And
18 we don't know -- I'm particularly concerned
19 about, you know, the no foot traffic and how
20 we're gonna enforce that and I mentioned that
21 before. If that's not working, I think we need
22 an opportunity to be able to tweak certain
23 things so I'd like to see -- make sure that
24 there's language in there that is -- that is
25 reviewed and maybe an opportunity to amend the
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1 contract (inaudible).
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So, this is an important step,
3 that's not something that we expect Christ
4 Central or anyone else to do, that's a goal
5 that we'll try to work with everyone to
6 monitor. I think it's so important -- we'll
7 get the records, we'll get ongoing directions
8 according to advice from Council for staff and
9 everything else, but we gotta make sure that we
10 don't -- we're attempting to micromanage this
11 process and ---
12 MS. DEVINE: Mr. Mayor, I don't believe I'm trying
13 to micromanage. My question and concern is
14 that say that the no foot traffic -- my
15 understanding were -- wasn't that (inaudible)
16 no foot traffic is going to work. And we say
17 that there's not many people down there during
18 the day, you know, do we reserve the right to
19 say, okay, we don't -- it's not worth the
20 traffic going through the neighborhoods to have
21 it open during the day and doing it. So, would
22 we want to address that? I mean, I just think
23 that this is new, we are implementing several
24 things at the same time that are brand new. We
25 don't know how it's gonna work and I just think
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1 that we need the flexibility to adjust if
2 necessary. That's not micromanaging the
3 process, that's being -- to learn from a few
4 weeks of operating it and saying that we need
5 to tweak what we've already put in place.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I guess you're saying that we -- do
7 you have the ability to adjust accordingly to
8 make -- we don't need that ability ---
9 MS. DEVINE: Well, we don't -- I haven't seen the
10 contract, so I don't know that.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The (inaudible) ---
12 MR. DAVIS: Let me ask one. I think Ms. Devine's
13 point of interest, same of mine, is that -- and
14 I understand we do have the capabilities of
15 doing just that, but there are some -- there
16 are certain assurances that have to be in -- be
17 in here. You know, one of my notes back to I
18 think everybody was that when we look at that
19 traffic, foot traffic, there was one
20 neighborhood that's contiguous to all this that
21 was not included. I think it just has to be
22 there. That's that assurance factor that has
23 to be there for other folks that are directly
24 impacted.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Every business, every neighborhood
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1 association, we're talking about affected by
2 the foot traffic has been dialogued with and is
3 on board moving forward ---
4 MR. DAVIS: Okay. I don't have a ---
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) don't have (inaudible)
6 like the same one.
7 MR. DAVIS: --- yeah, I'm saying -- I know she's
8 saying I don't have a problem with that long as
9 that's understood. It may have been an
10 oversight and I know you can't talk to
11 everybody at the same time when you're trying
12 to get off the ground, but those are the kinds
13 of assurances that I'm concerned about. As
14 long as it's there, there's no problem. But
15 being a pilot and something that is very short
16 term compared to what we've been doing in the
17 past, I just think coming out of the starting
18 gates, dot our Is and cross our Ts because, you
19 know, it -- we know what the experiences are,
20 we know what needs to be done to provide some
21 relief, and that's included. I don't think
22 it's a major problem, I just think we just to
23 make sure that it happens.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We can do that, yeah. We can do
25 that (inaudible).
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: Of course, discussion with the ---
2 UNKNOWN MALE: No.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- was there a question moving
4 forward. Harmony Creek's for (inaudible).
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's done you all.
6 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Well, restate the motion, please.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That we move forward with the plan
8 -- I'm sorry, did ---
9 MR. RUNYAN: I'm sorry. Did -- and then I'll just
10 (inaudible) because I don't think I have the
11 brain cells left ---
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Laughter.)
13 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) ---
14 UNKNOWN MALE: We move forward ---
15 MS. WILSON: --- deliberating of the contract
16 (inaudible). We definitely -- we have to do
17 that (inaudible).
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Baddourah.
19 MR. BADDOURAH: Just the motion is though what ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It's to move forward with the plan
21 as presented, to also move forward with
22 immediate implementation of the committees,
23 recommendations set out before us to -- and the
24 power -- the manager to come back to us with a
25 contract that will be presented to on the 3rd
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1 for consideration. Please let's give staff
2 and CPD and everyone else the latitude to allow
3 this to evolve in a meaningful way that allows
4 us to provide input and the proper oversight
5 that we're supposed to provide, but also the
6 ability to adjust according. And I think to
7 everything that we do from this point forward,
8 let's make sure that we -- that we maintain a
9 very open and aggressive spirit of
10 collaboration and cooperation and
11 communication, and we can get this done
12 together.
13 MS. WILSON: And I'll get -- I'll get (inaudible) --
14 -
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you, thank you.
16 MS. WILSON: You know I (inaudible) if (inaudible).
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Plaugh?
18 MS. PLAUGH: I just wondered if we can also -- and
19 (inaudible) the 3rd, but come back with a
20 history on it.
21 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
22 MS. PLAUGH: The second component for businesses in
23 the area, the corridor, the -- Calhoun, but not
24 -- I'm not talking about just ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Let me -- I think having the
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1 chief (inaudible) a dialogue with staff
2 regularly and with the chief, I think having
3 him lay out, articulate, what he's doing with
4 downtown ---
5 MS. PLAUGH: Would he ---
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- and the neighboring
7 neighborhoods as much as he can.
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Well, that's a beginning.
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: As much as he can.
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Thank you.
11 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Attempt -- there's a friendly
12 (inaudible) a substitute motion for Steve.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Laughter.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Move Clerk (inaudible) roll call.
15 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
16 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
17 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
18 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
19 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
20 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
21 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
22 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
23 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
24 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
25 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
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1 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
2 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. And I think it's time for
4 Waffle House, you all.
5 MS. PLAUGH: No, we have to do the park.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I was joking ---
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: If any -- if anyone here is parked
9 nearby or too far away, please allow -- the
10 chief will escort you to your car (inaudible).
11 Thank you, Chief.
12 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right, if any of you
14 (inaudible) released from service.
15 (Inaudible)?
16 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
17 UNKNOWN MALE: We'd like to see ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And I ---
19 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: All right, come on up.
21 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Plaugh?
23 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.) I asked that (inaudible)
24 be placed on the agenda to talk about Hampton
25 Park and, you know, the real need -- this
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1 community has really struggled with a really
2 dilapidated (inaudible). This is an active
3 neighborhood association that we all know
4 (inaudible), you know, we have capacity issues
5 sometimes in that building. And we have Tige
6 Watts here, president of the neighborhood
7 association. But there's several others that
8 (inaudible) to be here, but when I had asked
9 the city manager and I asked if after
10 (inaudible) try to make some general comment.
11 I had asked the city manager to look and see
12 what resources might be available to be able to
13 address this long lasting issue located at the
14 park.
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I second that motion.
16 MS. PLAUGH: Motion to what?
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I thought you said you were willing
18 to have the city manager ---
19 MS. PLAUGH: Oh, no. I had already asked her.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Oh, okay. Okay.
21 MS. PLAUGH: (Laughter.)
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Please ---
23 MS. PLAUGH: So Tige ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Tige, come on down.
25 MR. WATTS: Okay. Sorry, I had to set my phone for
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1 wake up. Anyways, I wanted to thank you all
2 for being here. Thank you for your services
3 (inaudible) thanks to you for being so patient
4 and you're -- Leona, you're exactly right, we
5 did have a nice crowd from Brandon Acres/Cedar
6 Terrace. Unfortunately, they don't have enough
7 stamina like all of us, but I will tell you
8 what a lot of them would have said which is
9 one, Hampton Park, you know, has been -- was
10 built in the early 1960s, maybe in the late
11 1950s, has not had a significant improvement or
12 expansion made to it. The neighborhood
13 association has actually done some stuff,
14 securing grant money for playground equipment,
15 for a fountain, for a little add-on to the
16 building. But other than that -- and there
17 really hasn't been a significant improvement to
18 the park building, our community center. And
19 just -- and I know four of you know where
20 Hampton Park is because you all came to our
21 National Night Out, where more than 200 people
22 came out. I want to thank you all. The other
23 three, you are always welcome to come any time
24 you want.
25 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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1 MR. WATTS: You did.
2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Uh-huh.
3 MR. WATTS: More than two years ago, I think.
4 Second thing I want to share with you is the --
5 Hampton Park is not only our literal center of
6 our neighborhood, but it's also our figurative
7 center, it's where things happen. It's where
8 families are moving back, you know, I've asked,
9 jeez, maybe 50 or more families that have moved
10 back to Hampton Park or Brandon Acres/Cedar
11 Terrace, what was the number one selling point?
12 And of course, they all say it wasn't the first
13 two blocks of the neighborhood, it was in the
14 middle of the neighborhood, Hampton Park. And
15 then secondly, of course, the people that make
16 up the neighborhood. Third thing I'll point
17 out is, as you all know, as you were in this
18 building, the bathrooms, they're not handicap
19 accessible and it's an ADA compliance issue.
20 That's one of the reasons and our long-standing
21 discuss -- discussion and movement on getting
22 a new park building, why it's placed so highly
23 on the list of capital improvement projects for
24 the parks. I think it's number one, yeah, and
25 correct me if I'm mistaken, but I do believe it
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1 is number one of the list. Of course, as you
2 know, the persons -- and the fire marshal knows
3 and (inaudible) our occupancy is only 50 in
4 that building. So, when I say that 200 people
5 came out for National Night Out, there was a
6 lot of look this way, firefighters, don't count
7 how many people are here going on. So, we have
8 had some issues with that. And finally, from
9 a personal perspective, our neighborhood
10 association will be celebrating our 50th
11 anniversary, so this would be the optimum time
12 to go ahead and make that decision, say yes,
13 this is the time to go ahead and agree as a
14 council to take on this capital improvement
15 project and go ahead and start the construction
16 of it. So, with that being said, I'll open up
17 to any questions you have. I know we want to
18 get out of here as quickly as possible and
19 still have information to hear from City
20 Manager Wilson on, but any questions?
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No. I think -- I think we fully
22 support your efforts (inaudible) turn around
23 and thank everybody else for being here. I
24 think with the exception of Bruce, I think
25 everybody here is on payroll right now except
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1 for you. Definitely two of you all. So -- but
2 needless to say, I will say my office
3 attendance will be really bad tomorrow morning
4 so ...
5 MR. WATTS: I think everyone's office will.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's right. Thank you.
7 MR. WATTS: All right, thank you.
8 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) I do want to hear from the
9 ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
11 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- city manager.
12 MS. WILSON: We did have a discussion earlier
13 tonight and we -- you -- not that you want to
14 spend any more time (inaudible), we did go over
15 part one of our (inaudible) question with
16 Council. And it -- we said today that is very
17 difficult to make certain decisions but we
18 would submit to Council (inaudible) project
19 (inaudible) general services, parks and
20 recreation and (inaudible) parks and recreation
21 and really worked. Those are the (inaudible)
22 absolute need based on public safety liability
23 issues, ADA compliance, and we are well aware
24 of the issue that Hampton Park -- Hampton Park
25 is -- did not come back yet and we are doing
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1 some reconciliation a tier four project. We
2 talked about that (inaudible) with Council and
3 would need the staff (inaudible) my belief is
4 that we'll get into not do the total overhaul,
5 we'll get the department to address the issues,
6 whether it's the kitchen (inaudible) or
7 acoustics. (Inaudible) there were different
8 things so Mr. (Inaudible) is well aware of
9 those that we're going (inaudible) begin to
10 address. It did not make the list because they
11 are needing (inaudible) compliance issues that
12 -- so that's where we are.
13 MS. PLAUGH: If I could ask the staff to take a
14 look, and I would be curious how you made it,
15 in that small building, those bathrooms, ADA
16 accessible without basically doing a new
17 building. So if we could have a recommendation
18 coming back as -- so we know what level of
19 funding we're looking for. I can tell you, on
20 behalf of the citizens that work day and night
21 in that neighborhood to make it safe and
22 strong, that attaching and trying to rebuild an
23 aspect of the building, I mean, it is a kitchen
24 and bathroom. The (inaudible) ---
25 MS. WILSON: Yeah, I -- and I didn't -- I mean, I
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1 want to be clear, I don't think (inaudible) I
2 suggested that we just do that. I think what
3 the staff has to do is come back and address
4 all the other issues ---
5 MS. PLAUGH: Okay ---
6 MS. WILSON: --- to get us through until we can ---
7 MS. PLAUGH: We can do a more ---
8 MS. WILSON: Right. Like the kitchen (inaudible)
9 bathroom. And I mean, I'll leave that to Mr.
10 (inaudible). It is correct that we talk about
11 making (inaudible) doing that kind of
12 (inaudible).
13 MS. PLAUGH: So, we do two different kinds of
14 recommendation.
15 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible.)
16 MR. WATTS: This probably isn't my place, but could
17 I be so bold as to ask when the recommendation
18 may be coming back so we can engage our
19 community ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) manager place.
21 MS. PLAUGH: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
22 MR. WATTS: Okay.
23 MS. WILSON: Let me explain to Council that
24 (inaudible) first week in October (inaudible)
25 and we still have and issue (inaudible) audit
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1 (inaudible). We would have to rectify for all
2 (inaudible) and so in October, we should have
3 a better idea of the budget (inaudible) is
4 going to look (inaudible).
5 MR. WATTS: Okay. And we're talking about towards
6 the beginning of October, right?
7 MS. WILSON: Yes, sir.
8 MR. WATTS: Okay.
9 MS. WILSON: Thank you.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Thank you.
11 MR. WATTS: Thank you.
12 MS. PLAUGH: Thank you for staying too.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Now, one thing I hadn't -- do we
14 have to set a date right now or are you -- once
15 the ---
16 MS. WILSON: I think (inaudible) I got set at 11,
17 Mr. Mayor, but ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. I mean, let's talk -- let's
19 ---
20 MS. WILSON: I would like to go back, if I may,
21 (inaudible) we do have folks here that
22 (inaudible).
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Let's -- and put a motion on
24 item number 10. Move to approve (inaudible).
25 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) second discussion?
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Ms. Plaugh?
5 MS. PLAUGH: I just would ask staff about what are
6 the values and what are (inaudible) with the
7 trade.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The ---
9 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) the trade.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, the -- this gives ---
11 MS. PLAUGH: Firearms.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- the chief of police the ability
13 to trade with (inaudible) for any --
14 (inaudible) any number of different services or
15 items that they might -- they might need. I
16 mean, so they're not just for firearms but
17 upgrading they also (inaudible) that the police
18 department might need. The firearms will be
19 traded around August (inaudible). But
20 (inaudible) any range (inaudible).
21 MS. WILSON: Exactly, that's a good question.
22 MS. PLAUGH: So, it's not about firearms even though
23 ---
24 MS. WILSON: Yeah, it is -- I think your question
25 (inaudible) was what (inaudible) in particular
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1 -- I think (inaudible). It isn't that
2 (inaudible).
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, it's really (inaudible) for a
4 variety of (inaudible).
5 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It -- it's for a variety of
7 (inaudible).
8 MS. PLAUGH: So ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, Mr. Davis and I.
10 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) new process (inaudible).
11 We need to just be (inaudible).
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah. Well, a lot -- a lot of
13 things are marketable, weapons, none of them
14 are needed for -- as (inaudible) ---
15 MR. DAVIS: Traditionally, we have destroyed them,
16 but we have before, since we've been dealing
17 with (inaudible) traded for new guns. And they
18 want to do the same with this. Not necessarily
19 with (inaudible) but ---
20 UNKNOWN MALE: Sure.
21 MR. DAVIS: --- they'll ---
22 MS. PLAUGH: So we're trading them firearms for
23 firearms?
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Not only firearms.
25 UNKNOWN MALE: Not only firearms.
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: We're trading for what beyond
2 firearms?
3 UNKNOWN MALE: I think whatever our (inaudible)
4 needs the department might have. I would
5 assume whether it's collapsible batons or
6 vests, what have you, what have you.
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 MS. WILSON: We had asked for some clarity for this
9 (inaudible) so if you all like (inaudible) we
10 can do that. I don't (inaudible) ---
11 MS. PLAUGH: I just -- I was going to say if they're
12 time considered (ph) ---
13 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
14 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) help you or not.
15 MS. PLAUGH: I'm not necessarily. I just had wanted
16 to know what we were trading for but, I mean,
17 it's -- I think this is important ---
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: It'll be a local -- a local firearm
19 dealers like Palmetto Firearms, Lawmen's
20 Supply, could trade for firearms or equipment
21 like radios or whatever the department would
22 need on a (inaudible) basis.
23 MS. PLAUGH: Okay. I mean, if the staff supports it
24 then ---
25 MS. WILSON: I'm happy to get ---
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1 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
2 MS. WILSON: --- the items for you, and I'll -- I
3 will definitely do that.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) Clerk, call the roll.
5 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
6 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
7 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
8 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
9 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
10 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
11 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
12 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
13 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
14 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
15 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
16 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
17 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. At 11, the motion?
19 UNISON: So moved.
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: That's the end of the discussion.
21 (Inaudible) Clerk call the roll.
22 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
23 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
24 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
25 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
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1 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
2 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
3 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
4 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
5 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
6 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
7 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
8 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
9 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye. We can go ahead and do seven
11 (inaudible) or we can move forward with 34 –-
12 34a.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Seven is the water ---
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay, okay, uh-huh.
15 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) will be (inaudible) and
16 weapons and things, and it's also (inaudible)
17 everybody but (inaudible).
18 MR. JACO: We're going to move through this very
19 quickly. I just want to apologize, we just
20 noticed our presentation is now out of date but
21 ---
22 (Laughter.)
23 MR. JACO: --- we will continue forward and just hit
24 the -- hit the hot topics of the presentation.
25 The purpose of the program for the Clean Water
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1 2020 Program is to -- and generally speaking,
2 to upgrade our system to prevent, or to help
3 prevent, overflows. We're doing this by
4 increasing the capacity and the efficiency and
5 the reliability of our system. It is in
6 response to the consent decree, which is item
7 number 34 on the agenda tonight, and it is
8 being presented with the idea that Council will
9 -- is asked to give favorable consideration to
10 that agenda item. The program is a multi-year
11 program. We estimate that it could take 10,
12 could take a little -- could take less, could
13 take more, that's what we estimate the time of
14 the program and the consent to complete.
15 Basically, with the program, we will be making
16 improvements to the system, and making
17 infrastructure improvements, we will be
18 building up our asset management and changing
19 some business practices to better operate our
20 system. Also included is the supplemental
21 environmental projects which basically we are
22 dedicating $1 million to the improvements to
23 the Gills Creek, Snip Branch and the Rocky
24 Branch waterways. The program management
25 aspect of it, CEM was selected through an
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1 interview process and they were selected
2 basically because CEM showed the expertise that
3 the city needs to help us -- shepherd us
4 through this particular process. They're going
5 to be assisting the city -- basically, they're
6 gonna be an extension of staff, to make sure we
7 meet the deadlines. There's gonna be many
8 programs that are going to be developed.
9 They're assisting with the schedule, the --
10 they're assisting with putting together all the
11 programs that are involved with the Clean Water
12 2020 Program and the consent decree. Their
13 contract is set up with 25 percent sub-
14 consultants, of which our NBE, SB and W firms.
15 Some additional variables that we have with the
16 Clean Water 2020 Program, the program -- with
17 the program, there's gonna be a lot of projects
18 involved. And with the projects, there's gonna
19 be opportunities for other contractors and
20 consultants in the area to do work. And with
21 that, we -- the city basically, I mean, we're
22 able to -- the Clean Water 2020 Program, CEM is
23 assisting us with the program but we're still
24 filing the city procurement, city staff is
25 still in control of who does the work and so
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1 forth. So, there will be an economic benefit
2 with the city's programs that we have in place
3 now. We're also gonna build on those programs
4 because there's gonna be a good bit of work
5 that comes out of this program. Some general
6 strategies and initiatives involved with the
7 program, there's a number of early action
8 projects that are -- that are listed in the
9 consent, all of which are either under
10 construction, some are either complete or
11 nearly complete construction, but we've taken
12 a very good stride in completing a number of
13 these projects already. We're going to be
14 changing, as I mentioned earlier, some business
15 practices. We're going to be offering and
16 really documenting better a lot of our training
17 process. We're going to be improving our O&M
18 process within our system. And we're going to
19 build a continuing assessment of our system, so
20 we're continually looking at our system to try
21 look for areas to make improvements. We're
22 gonna be building a (sic) information
23 management system that's -- it's gonna be a
24 document management system. A good bit of data
25 information is gonna be on the web site
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1 cleanwater2020 for the public and for city
2 staff to use. And the cleanwater2020 web site
3 is open today. It is not fully operational
4 with all this information, but it is up and
5 running today and all the programming
6 initiatives and so forth will be on the web
7 site. As I mentioned earlier, we're going to
8 be doing continual condition assessment with
9 our system. That's gonna involve map --
10 improvements to our mapping. We have a great
11 GIS system but we're going to be making a lot
12 of improvements to that, and we're going to be
13 doing a lot of rehab work within our system and
14 out of that is going to come a good bit of
15 rehab projects. As I said earlier, we're going
16 to be doing employee training for our
17 collection system. This is something that we
18 have in place today, but we're going to be
19 documenting a lot better and making sure that
20 we keep good documents in place for future
21 training processes. We have an information
22 management system, we use Cityworks right now.
23 We're going to be improving on that. We have
24 a good sewer overflow response plan in place
25 today and that's been recognized actually by
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1 DHEC. We've – they've used our process as a
2 training process for other utilities in the
3 area. We are also going to be improving on the
4 operation and maintenance of our collection
5 system. We've got some training programs
6 already in place at the wastewater plant.
7 We're going to be improving on those training
8 programs. We've implemented the apprenticeship
9 program at our Metro Waste Water Treatment
10 Plant as well as our water plants where
11 operators can come in with a trainee license
12 from LLR and there is a -- there's a process in
13 place for them to come in as a trainee and work
14 their way up to an A operator which will
15 benefit the city as well as benefit the
16 operator because they get pay increase every
17 time they make a step in that process. We will
18 be doing a lot of condition assessment and
19 expanding our Cityworks at our Metro Waste
20 Water Treatment Plant. We currently don't you
21 realize utilize Cityworks at our Metro Waste
22 Water Treatment Plant now, but as far as the
23 Clean Water 2020 Program, and actually some
24 contracts that we have in place right now,
25 we're doing a lot of condition assessment which
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1 will roll into a better asset management and
2 Cityworks set up for our Metro Waste Water
3 Plant right now. We're going to be investing
4 a lot of time, effort and money into our Metro
5 Waste Water Treatment Plant. We're going to
6 move from being a more reactive to a more
7 proactive state and -- within our wastewater
8 system as a whole. We're going to be doing a
9 lot projects and a lot of programs, so we've
10 got to have a way we can track this
11 information. We've got to have a way we can
12 store this information and we've got to be able
13 to share this information, so for our program
14 tracking, we're using a program called
15 Primavera which you've seen in some of our
16 flowcharts already that have been generated
17 with the software. Our project tracking, we're
18 using the SharePoint software and these --
19 reports from these packages will be on our
20 Clean Water 2020 web site for staff as well as
21 City Council as well as the public to see where
22 we are with the process. I mentioned earlier,
23 we're going to be making improvements to our
24 GIS, we're also going to be making improvements
25 to our SCADA system at our Metro and then our
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1 pump stations. These are all intervals to our
2 initiatives for the Clean Water 2020 Program.
3 And I'm going to let Bill come up and talk
4 about some of our early successes and get an
5 SSO update.
6 MR. DAVIS: Good morning everybody. I want to
7 introduce first of all, Robert Judy, and
8 Robert's here with us tonight. He came to his
9 first Council meeting and look what you all did
10 to him.
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MR. DAVIS: But no really, Robert came from North
13 Charleston Sewer District and he significantly
14 reduced SSOs and he also was doing a really
15 great job with customer service. And I'm sure
16 that most of you, I know the city manager has,
17 but most of you have had some of your
18 constituents give positive reports on the way
19 Robert is handling these situations out in the
20 field and we are so very grateful to have him.
21 He has definitely lightened the load for me as
22 part of -- being a part of our program. The
23 other thing is, Joey always spoke about our
24 successes but we do have an award-winning FOG
25 program in 2011. We continued year after year
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1 since 2008, every fiscal year, we've had a
2 reduction in grease related SSOs as a result of
3 our FOG program which we strongly urge you to
4 continue to support with your constituents.
5 And the last thing here is we do want to talk
6 just very briefly about some of the projects
7 we've done. We talked about those this
8 morning, you know, the new Headworks is going
9 to enable us to better operate our treatment
10 plant. We also upgraded five of our major pump
11 stations and a lot of -- and throughout the
12 system we've spent that 159 million over the
13 last few years in trying to get that system up
14 to par here. And very briefly I will go over
15 this SSO update. I know Bill Stangler, the
16 Riverkeeper, is here. And so, I want to skip
17 through it and if you all have questions in
18 particular about the SSO update you can fee
19 free to ask those at any time. First of all,
20 I wanted to show the significant events. We've
21 shown these maps when we do these quarterly
22 updates for you folks and -- but we had 18
23 events on physical year -- fiscal year 11/12
24 and we had 11 events in 12/13, of 5,000 or
25 greater spill and that's -- those are bad. So
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1 the big dots are not good, we don't want to
2 have those. We don't want have any dots but
3 especially don't want to have the big dots.
4 This year -- I want to tell you why, but this
5 year we've had five in July. There's 11 all of
6 last year and we had five in July. And I want
7 to show you why the numbers were so high.
8 Basically if you look at our number of spills,
9 the number of spills is not that significant
10 until you look at the fact that we had 11 total
11 spills in July but five of them were 5,000 or
12 greater. And all but one of the five that were
13 5,000 or greater within -- were within the same
14 general area. And that area, if you look at
15 this map, this is a map that combines the USC
16 standard rainfall -- you know, if you watch the
17 quotes on the news, they talk about these
18 rainfall events, they're quoting this one from
19 USC. And we also have our own rain gauges now,
20 in place throughout the city, we have seven of
21 them, and at PRGO One down there, which is our
22 Mallard Pointe Pump Station, we recorded in the
23 month of July for this year 10.94 inches of
24 rain. And at the point of these spills which
25 is around the middle of July, so from the first
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1 to the middle of July, we had 9.2 inches of
2 rain in that vicinity, at PRGO One. And that
3 basically is the Burnside area up around
4 Garner's Ferry Road and then down at Coatesdale
5 and Veterans Avenue, and those were very
6 significant events for us because they were --
7 there were a lot of spills. Like I said, there
8 were four of the 5,000 or greater gallons
9 spills in that general area because of the
10 excessive rain. And if you look at the top 10
11 rainfall events since the time, you know, since
12 I guess it was 127 years they've been taking
13 rainfall data, this was the number four month
14 for the USC gauge which was 13.59 inches in
15 2013. So out of 127 years, this was the number
16 four month. And then if you look down here,
17 this is a little bit of a fuzzy graph, but the
18 red line basically is the summed average
19 rainfall events for each month. You know, this
20 is the entire month since 1939, so that's over
21 70, or right at 70 years. So, if you look at
22 where that arrow points, the July 2013 event
23 was the fifth largest month in the last 70
24 years. So I'm not making excuses, I'm just
25 telling you that we had a lot of rain. The
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1 only other thing I wanted to point out was we
2 did have one, and I know Mr. Stangler is going
3 to want to talk about this, the one event that
4 happened that was human error. And, you know,
5 my mom always said, you know, you better be
6 honest and honesty is the best policy, so I'm
7 going to be honest. You know, we had a mistake
8 and I'll tell you a little bit about what
9 happened. We were by -- it was on July the 5th
10 and I was out personally on the site, we had a
11 lot going on that -- that's when the rain
12 really started coming down. And I was out on
13 this site at about 8:30 and this one pump
14 station was not keeping up with the flow, but
15 this pump station didn't have any history of
16 any problems. So, my guys were out, you know,
17 Robert's guys were out that night and we looked
18 at it and I said, look, you're going to have to
19 pump and haul until we can get it caught up at
20 the station because the levels are rising in
21 the pump station and we were in danger of
22 overflow at that time. And here again, it's
23 8:30 at night on July the 5th, right after the
24 4th, you know, it's Friday night, we're all out
25 there. And I said -- he said well, how long
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1 are we going to have to pump and haul. And I
2 said I want you to pump and haul all night if
3 you have to. You stand here all night if you
4 have to. So around 10:00 or 10:30 or so, they
5 called and said, can we put in a bypass pump
6 system because we've got other emergencies
7 throughout the city that we're going to have to
8 respond to. I said go ahead and initiate the
9 bypass pump system. So they put in a bypass
10 pump system at the station and they ran a line
11 -- this was at night, about -- it was about
12 12:30, 1:00 o'clock that night and they ran the
13 line 400 feet out to what was perceived to be
14 the sanitary sewer manhole. And it said
15 sanitary sewer on the manhole cover. And if
16 you look down in a manhole, if you imagine a
17 four foot diameter manhole and you look down in
18 it and it's flooded because the creeks were
19 flooded, the sewer lines were flooded, so you
20 look down in there, you see a four foot
21 diameter hole, you see water, okay. Stick the
22 pipe in, turn the pumps on and move on to the
23 next emergency. And so that's what they did.
24 And it turned out that that was a storm drain
25 line that it was put in to. And unfortunately
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1 we did not catch that until after the weekend
2 was over and it was the first part of the week.
3 And that gave us one of our largest spills
4 ever, which was, I belief number five, largest
5 spill was 254,000 gallons. And that's very
6 unfortunate. And we have no excuses. We did
7 catch it and went back and we have made
8 significant changes. Robert and his staff are
9 working on an SOP and we already have
10 initiated, but we're going to have a written
11 SOP that every time that we have a bypass pump
12 system, we've got six managers, including
13 myself and Robert, and two of the managers have
14 to sign off on these systems and have put eyes
15 on it to make sure these systems are in a
16 correct working order. And what happens if you
17 have that line in the pipe, you go back to
18 check -- the newspaper said it a little bit
19 incorrectly this morning, that it went
20 unchecked. Well, we had to fill these bypass
21 pumps with gas, so they were being filled with
22 gas but, you know, you look at the -- your
23 receiving side, you don't look at the discharge
24 side because it's in the hole, you know, you
25 think it's in the right hole until somebody
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1 noticed, hey, this isn't the right hole. But
2 again, it's rained every day. And so,
3 unfortunately the solution to pollution was
4 dilution in this case and -- because it was so
5 much rain that it actually washed everything
6 out and it got gone pretty fast. So, with
7 that, I will take any questions you have.
8 MS. DEVINE: I have a question. I know ---
9 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
10 MS. DEVINE: --- another concern Mr. Hamilton had is
11 our reporting. So, can you explain the -- how
12 you're doing that when those situations happen?
13 MR. DAVIS: Well, with that one, we did obviously
14 report it to DHEC immediately and ---
15 MS. DEVINE: So I think that Lee raised this before
16 was -- the public reporting and how we're
17 getting that out to ---
18 MR. DAVIS: We posted signs that day, at that point
19 of spill. And we also -- with the other, some
20 of the Coatesdale spills, that -- we did public
21 -- a media blitz public notice. And again, we
22 work hand-in-hand with DHEC and listen to what
23 they advise us to do. Sometimes they advise us
24 to do public notice. Sometimes they advise us
25 to do testing on the creeks. And sometimes
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1 they say that a sign posted locally is
2 sufficient. And, you know, in this case, it
3 was a local spot, you really couldn't access it
4 because I crawled down in the creek myself,
5 personally, and went down there to see if I
6 could see any evidence of the spill and most
7 everything was washed through. There were a
8 lot of bamboo, some blocked roads, so it's a
9 real grown up area so you really couldn't get
10 down there. So it was an inaccessible area so
11 the sign being posted locally would suffice.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right.
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible) ---
14 UNKNOWN MALE: Thanks for, Bill ---
15 MS. DEVINE: --- you already (inaudible) project
16 management from the for the (inaudible)
17 stadium?
18 MR. DAVIS: Oh, yeah. We do have our Clean Water
19 staff with us tonight. Jerry Benson and Brian
20 Culley are here. They've been here all night.
21 So they're with us. They're really, you know,
22 my right and left arm on the program, so.
23 MR. FONTE: Do you think (inaudible) other people
24 that were here today ---
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: John, John ---
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: John ---
2 MR. DAVIS: Oh yeah, John Fonte. Yeah, I'm sorry,
3 John. I'm here ---
4 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
5 MR. DAVIS: Adrienne Williams was here also.
6 MR. FONTE: Think (inaudible) Charleston.
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah.
8 MR. DAVIS: Yeah.
9 UNKNOWN FEMALE: We're very proud of our
10 participation that we have been qualified at
11 (inaudible) was reported and are so looking
12 forward to the (inaudible) goals going forward
13 (inaudible).
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: John, you don't ever need to go to
15 the (inaudible), you know this, right, you
16 ready?
17 MR. FONTE: I do, I plea.
18 MR. DAVIS: He's a trooper ---
19 MR. FONTE: (Inaudible.)
20 MS. WILSON: John is from one of the companies that
21 I told you all about, where he -- it's a huge
22 company based out of Atlanta but he's pretty
23 good. (Inaudible.)
24 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is Georgetown more a SC State grad?
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1 MR. FONTE: Yes, sir. Both of them.
2 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Very proud of his success. I hope
3 they'll beat Clemson this year too, by the way.
4 (Laughter.)
5 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
6 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, gentlemen.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. Where are we down to?
8 MS. WILSON: We are at Ordinances?
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yeah, okay. Ordinance 34?
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Yes, sir.
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MS. MOORE: (Inaudible.) Authorizing the city
13 manager to execute a consent decree in the
14 matter of the United States of America and
15 State of South Carolina by and through the
16 Department of Health and Environmental Control
17 versus the City of Columbia to resolve the
18 alleged -- to resolve alleged violations of the
19 Federal Clean Water Act, the South Carolina
20 Pollution Control Act, and the terms and
21 conditions of the city's National Pollutant
22 Discharge Elimination System permit authorizing
23 discharge of treated wastewater from its waste
24 water treatment plant located at 1200 Simon
25 Tree Lane.
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: Is there a motion?
2 MR. RUNYAN: So moved.
3 MR. DAVIS: Second.
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Second. Any discussions?
5 MS. PLAUGH: I think there was city manager or staff
6 going to outline kind of what this consists of.
7 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) do that (inaudible) then
8 morning.
9 MS. PLAUGH: Just mainly, and then we were talking
10 about fines and the ---
11 MR. JACO: You want -- oh, the fines? There in the
12 ---
13 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible) the fines.
14 MR. JACO: The fine is 462,400, I think is -- excuse
15 me, 476,400 is the total fine included in the
16 consent.
17 MS. PLAUGH: And you might mention when we get --
18 we're putting aside the million dollars.
19 MR. JACO: There's a -- there is a -- with the
20 supplemental environmental project there is a
21 $1 million set aside ---
22 MS. PLAUGH: That we offered.
23 MR. JACO: That we offered as a part of the process
24 for the stream restoration.
25 MS. PLAUGH: And ---
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1 MR. JACO: That's okay.
2 MS. PLAUGH: What is it on the record that we are
3 focusing that into Snip Branch, Gills Creek ...
4 MR. JACO: And Rocky Branch, yes, ma'am.
5 MS. WILSON: We've still got to get a reading, Ms.
6 Moore?
7 UNKNOWN MALE: With the previous question, clerk,
8 call the roll?
9 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
10 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
11 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
12 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
13 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
14 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
15 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
16 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
17 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
18 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
19 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
20 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
21 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: A robust yes.
23 MS. WILSON: Ordinance Number 2013-068, Amending the
24 1998 Code of Ordinances of the City of
25 Columbia, South Carolina, Chapter 10, Law
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1 Enforcement ---
2 UNKNOWN MALE: So moved.
3 UNKNOWN MALE: Second?
4 UNKNOWN MALE: Second, any discussion? With there
5 being no discussion, clerk, call the roll.
6 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
7 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
8 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
9 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
10 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
11 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
12 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
13 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
14 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
15 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
16 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
17 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
18 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye.
20 MS. WILSON: Ordinance number 2013–079, Granting
21 encroachment to the Columbia Urban League ---
22 UNKNOWN MALE: Is there a motion?
23 MR. RUNYAN: So moved.
24 MR. NEWMAN: Second.
25 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Moved by Mr. Runyan. Motion
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1 seconded by Mr. Newman. Special? Saying none
2 but (inaudible) special, clerk, call the roll.
3 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
4 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
5 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
6 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
7 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
8 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
9 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
10 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
11 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
12 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
13 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
14 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
15 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye.
17 MS. WILSON: Ordinance number 2013-096 authorizing
18 the Issuance and Sale by the City of Columbia,
19 South Carolina (inaudible) ---
20 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is there a motion?
21 MS. PLAUGH: I would like to move, Mayor, that that
22 number be adjust to $7,384,151. That is the
23 amount of debt that we can issue right now as
24 opposed to looking at additional debt with the
25 issue in 2014 and that those dollars be
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1 allocated to rolling stock.
2 UNKNOWN MALE: So moved.
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: You all, I'm sorry, was that a
4 second by, Mr. Baddourah?
5 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
6 MR. BADDOURAH: Yes.
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
8 MS. PLAUGH: If I could just clarify what I was ---
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Please.
10 MS. PLAUGH: The way this has been structured is
11 that there is the seven million that I
12 reference that is our ability to issue GO debt
13 now. But it also is obligating future Council
14 for the other four million (inaudible) that is
15 available to us in June, the first, I think, of
16 2014. I don't know that we've ever done
17 something like that to obligate future Council
18 so -- but my thought would be we issue the debt
19 capacity we have right now, we issue the
20 balance of the debt when we can.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Any councilor, your thoughts on
22 that and future Council will talk about this
23 fiscal year?
24 MR. SEEZEN: Well, let's -- you know, first of all,
25 the ordinance authorizes the issuance of debt
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1 up to a certain limit. The Council can approve
2 this ordinance in the stated amount,
3 11,750,000, it could approve an ordinance up to
4 7,384,000, which is the amount that currently
5 could be issued under the eight percent debt
6 limit calculation. It could execute an
7 ordinance that authorized ten million dollars,
8 five million dollars, whatever that limit is,
9 the -- is simply an authorization. So the --
10 it's not binding any future Council to issue
11 any debt. You could execute as many ordinances
12 as you wanted to but until the mayor or the
13 city manager and the CFO, or any two of them
14 acting together, actually took the steps to
15 issue debt. There is no binding of future
16 Councils. There's no obligation to issue debt
17 under this ordinance.
18 MS. PLAUGH: Oh. So, why not keep the number, if
19 the number is 7.4, if the GO -- don't have to,
20 why not keep it, keep the ordinance to reflect
21 our current GO?
22 MR. MR. SEEZEN: It is the product mostly of a
23 conversation that the CFO and I had a couple of
24 weeks ago. As Council knows, the GO ordinance
25 was really born out of discussions about what
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1 the city has in the past issued GO debt for,
2 which has been rolling stock, as well as recent
3 discussions about issuing general obligation
4 debt to fund Bull Street projects. When Jeff
5 and I talked, the current authorization that
6 exists is 7,384,000, I think that's the number
7 that you mentioned ---
8 MS. PLAUGH: I just pulled it out of the ordinance.
9 MR. SEEZEN: Fair enough, fair enough. And actually
10 that's based on last year's tax year. They're
11 -- the county assessor is supposed to give us
12 more current information by the end of August,
13 so the constitutional debt limit number may
14 actually change a little bit, not materially,
15 but may change a little bit. But the thought
16 is, as he and I spoke, there are a number of
17 principal payments that are coming due on the
18 city's outstanding GO debt in June of 2014
19 which is only -- it's very late, I can't do the
20 math -- but I think it's about eight or nine
21 months from now. And so as we talked about
22 what the -- this authorization related to and
23 the fact that the discussions with Mr. Hughes
24 suggested that we might -- the city might need
25 to fund infrastructure for Bull Street within
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1 a fairly short period of time and that there
2 might be a short turnaround on phase two, the
3 discussion that we had was, would you rather do
4 an ordinance simply for the initial amount for
5 this fiscal year or would you rather -- knowing
6 that in as little as eight or nine months, you
7 might be asking Council to approve another
8 ordinance or would you prefer to build those
9 two together. The idea wasn't necessarily to
10 authorize the ordinance and -- or, excuse me,
11 put together an ordinance that authorized debt
12 that could be issued over the next four or five
13 years, it was simply an effort to provide
14 authorization for a relatively short period in
15 the future.
16 MS. PLAUGH: It's been over a number of (inaudible).
17 MR. SEEZEN: I'm sorry?
18 MS. PLAUGH: I just don't recall us (ph) ever doing
19 that. We usually issue it for the capacity
20 that we have now.
21 MR. SEEZEN: Well, you know, yes, that's true,
22 that's true. But usually the ordinances that
23 have been done have been to authorize an amount
24 of debt which is actually less than the -- that
25 the current GO debt limit. The task here was
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1 to provide an ordinance that gave the city the
2 most ability to fund projects ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Line two (ph), the flexibility,
4 recognizing that the capacity with a cap will
5 be available this fiscal year.
6 MR. SEEZEN: That's correct.
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Is there any cost that individual
8 amount in one ordinance versus breaking it out?
9 MR. SEEZEN: There is. You know, as you know, under
10 state law there is a period of time that you
11 have to wait after you adopt the ordinance to
12 issue GO debt. So the fact that you're giving
13 one ordinance today means that we have to wait
14 one period of time to issue debt. If you were
15 to break it into two ordinances ---
16 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
17 MR. SEEZEN: --- into spring, you'd have to wait an
18 another ---
19 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- there's going to be stabilizing
20 fees associated with it by not doing separate
21 ordinances.
22 MS. PLAUGH: You still have to issue it separately?
23 MR. SEEZEN: Correct, correct. I mean the -- you
24 can't issue the debt based on the authority
25 that comes due in June or after 2014 -- June
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1 2014 until after that date when the principal
2 payments are paid down.
3 MS. PLAUGH: We pay the (ph) fine.
4 MR. SEEZEN: But it's, you know, it's Council's
5 discretion that -- so.
6 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Your motion is -- Leo must have
7 been the seven minute ...
8 MS. PLAUGH: The 7.3, whatever, or 7 -- whatever the
9 right number is, whatever we ---
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Our had -- our current
11 MR. SEEZEN: And I might suggest, if you'll indulge
12 me, we are supposed to get updated information
13 at the end of August. The number that you had
14 mentioned was the -- was based on what our debt
15 capacity was for last year, so if ---
16 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
17 MR. SEEZEN: --- if I could, you know, you'll
18 indulge me, if the number comes back different
19 at the end of August before second reading is
20 given, but that'd would be the number that we
21 ---
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What the period of time between the
23 time you authorize and the amount of time you
24 can actually issue debt?
25 MR. SEEZEN: Our current schedule contemplates
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1 second reading on -- Brent, help me out,
2 September the 3rd?
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Third.
4 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
5 MR. SEEZEN: September 3rd. We'd have to wait 60
6 days, so we're looking at least early November
7 to close probably before Thanksgiving.
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And that will get us past the
9 elections, so we can ...
10 MR. SEEZEN: That is true, the election is at the
11 beginning of November. Yes, sir?
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: --- worry about -- we don't have to
13 worry about playing Bull Street politics?
14 Let's -- why don't we -- I'm fine with waiting
15 until the new session number and then acting
16 accordingly. I mean, if you -- if this arrests
17 your process in some way, then let us know, but
18 I think that we need to give staff the full
19 authority and flexibility to try and afford it
20 to as many currency options as possible. I
21 mean I fully support your recommended approach.
22 I think the (inaudible) notes I saw from the
23 auditor said that maybe August 20th or so to --
24 -
25 MR. SEEZEN: Correct.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: August 20th was fixing new numbers.
2 Why don't we wait until we get those new
3 numbers before we record our first reading, if
4 that's okay with dealing and (inaudible).
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
6 MR. SEEZEN: So you'd like to delay first reading
7 until then -- after August 20th?
8 MAYOR BENJAMIN: (Inaudible) What do you think ---
9 MR. SEEZEN: (Inaudible.)
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I would suggest that we move ahead
11 with first reading based off the schedule they
12 had -- we discussed, but I mean ---
13 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
14 MR. SEEZEN: Brent had raised the point for us ---
15 MAYOR BENJAMIN: The rates are moving in the wrong
16 direction.
17 UNKNOWN FEMALE: That's right.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah.
19 MR. SEEZEN: Brent had mentioned -- Brent and I were
20 talking a little bit about the schedule
21 earlier. If we were to move -- if we were to
22 delay first reading or we were to have first
23 reading on -- at the early September meeting
24 and then have second reading at the late
25 September meeting, waiting 60 days would push
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1 us to pricing what, in the beginning of
2 December?
3 MR. ROBERTSON: It would push us to the beginning of
4 December and the concern I'd have with that is
5 that that -- when you ---
6 UNKNOWN MALE: Holiday schedule.
7 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, not only the holidays, but you
8 get into December and that's when everybody's
9 trying to cram in before the end of the year
10 and we get lost in potentially a lot more
11 volume coming in, more supply can lend -- will
12 lead itself to higher rates.
13 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Do you have thoughts on seven
14 million versus 11 million, Brent?
15 MR. ROBERTSON: I'm sorry?
16 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What are your thoughts on seven
17 million versus 11 million ---
18 MR. ROBERTSON: I view it more as just a flexibility
19 option for you. I mean, getting rid of --
20 having -- I shouldn't say getting rid of, but
21 having to only deal with one waiting period
22 between the second reading and pricing sounds
23 nice to me. I like flexibility so the fact
24 that we wouldn't have to do that twice over if
25 we were going to be issuing again before, you
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1 know, second or third quarter of next year, I
2 like that. If there's a lack of comfort on
3 Council's part, then authorizing the amount
4 we've got, we'll come back to you with another
5 ordinance. But my preference would be, if we
6 can do it, if we could go ahead and do the
7 first reading with the understanding that at
8 second reading, that amount gets adjusted to
9 whatever the right one is, whether -- if it
10 stays the same, fine or if it gets adjusted,
11 consistent with whatever the auditor's new
12 assessment rates are and then we have our new
13 ---
14 MS. PLAUGH: I just don't think we ought to wait ---
15 UNKNOWN MALE: --- existing eight percent debt
16 capacity. But I don't take issue with that.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I agree. So, how does that pertain
18 to your existing motion?
19 MS. PLAUGH: All I was trying to do is get the
20 existing debt capacity, whatever number that
21 is, as opposed to a future debt capacity.
22 MR. ROBERTSON: And if that's what you all -- if
23 that's what you all are aiming for, we do have
24 -- would you be comfortable proceeding with
25 first reading tonight with the understanding
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1 that second reading doesn't happen ---
2 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
3 MR. ROBERTSON: --- until we dial it back to the --
4 the par amount to whatever the new existing
5 eight percent debt capacity is.
6 MS. PLAUGH: Right ---
7 MR. ROBERTSON: Okay.
8 MS. PLAUGH: --- I mean we get the number 7.4, or
9 something, tonight and then ---
10 MR. ROBERTSON: It would be some amount that is less
11 than the debt capacity. And, Mike, we would
12 round it to a number, obviously we wouldn't
13 issue, you know, a bond that's $850 or $51, or
14 whatever it is.
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Do you want to round the numbers?
16 MS. PLAUGH: I'm fine with that.
17 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
18 MS. PLAUGH: I'm not trying to stop the issuance
19 (inaudible) I think we need to go ahead and ---
20 MR. ROBERTSON: Mr. Mayor, what would Council's
21 pleasure be about the scope of the projects to
22 be financed?
23 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think we need to as much
24 flexibility as possible, I mean, that's what I
25 want (inaudible) city (inaudible) are happy and
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1 building (inaudible) have the ability to deal
2 with the past (inaudible).
3 MS. PLAUGH: I think the question being here, will
4 we need the money for that or can this part go
5 toward rolling stocks for next year. And when
6 we come back for the June 2014, I mean, do we
7 have the luxury of waiting, I guess is my
8 question, and let this go towards rolling
9 stock.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think staff is -- I think made
11 clear, not that our lawyers and financial
12 advisors (inaudible) they want any of the
13 latitude to try and meet what our flexible and
14 ongoing needs of our rolling stock as well as
15 regarding Bull Street and whatever else. I'd
16 like to give them the authority to do that
17 accordingly. We may see some infrastructure
18 needs, maybe as soon as this calendar year,
19 maybe first-quarter. We might look at rolling
20 stock replacement towards the end of the fourth
21 quarter. I'd just like to have the -- them to
22 have the ability to do what they need to be
23 done -- what needs to be done, but that's just
24 me. And we can always come back. We will be
25 paying increased cost and -- of issuance at
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1 high interest rates as a result of this, we
2 know that, but you know.
3 MS. PLAUGH: Well, this doesn't alter when we can
4 issue the debt. And then, you know, the debt,
5 we still have to issue in (inaudible).
6 MR. ROBERTSON: That's correct, that's correct.
7 Then -- and if we -- if we reduce the
8 authorization to seven million and it allows
9 for either Bull Street or rolling stock, or
10 both, keep that in mind ---
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
12 MR. ROBERTSON: -- that this could be a combination
13 of the two, this would be all of the debt that
14 you could issue until after June 2014, which is
15 when additional authority would be available.
16 Or you, for example, I think we discussed it in
17 an earlier meetings, rolling stock could be
18 funded through a equipment lease purchase,
19 something that didn't count against your eight
20 percent debt capacity. And that would require
21 a subsequent ordinance by counsel to approve a
22 lease purchase agreement of solicitation of a
23 bidding process and that sort of thing.
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Uh-huh (affirmative response). So,
25 Ordinance 2013–096 is before us. I think
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1 there's a motion to amend that amount. I
2 should probably say that is before us.
3 MS. WILSON: The debts in the amount of (inaudible).
4 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'll see what the language was.
5 MS. WILSON: I mean, I guess, is just that language
6 gonna stay in there in regards to rolling stock
7 and Bull Street?
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
9 MS. PLAUGH: It was my motion there, and I struggle
10 with that. I'm just being honest. I struggle
11 with it because I think we told the public
12 that. It's in the notes, it's in our web site
13 that this money would go towards rolling stock,
14 that's what we told everybody. Now, on the
15 same hand, I know we have obligated ourselves
16 to a commitment on Bull Street and that we've
17 got to perform, so I struggle with those two.
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What's your motion, Ms. Plaugh?
19 MS. PLAUGH: Well, my original motion was to keep it
20 at rolling stock.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay.
22 MS. PLAUGH: I'm glad you're back. What is your
23 recommendation?
24 MS. WILSON: Mr. Hamilton is not here. Once again,
25 a family emergency a little bit earlier
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1 (inaudible) and so (inaudible). My
2 recommendation is that because Jet and I are
3 the only ones, who don't (inaudible) to
4 perform. The fiscal year (inaudible).
5 MS. PLAUGH: Then I would modify my motion. I'd
6 like to keep the dollar amount, the lower one,
7 but I'd would modify it to include Bull Street
8 but I would like to take the ball stadium out
9 of the language.
10 MR. ROBERTSON: And I guess what Ms. Plaugh is
11 talking about in the ordinance that you have
12 before you, there's a definition of the
13 projects which is Schedule One, which follows
14 at page 25. And in it, there's a definition of
15 rolling stock in equipment projects and then
16 there's a second definition of Bull Street
17 Projects. The Bull Street Project definition,
18 just so that everybody knows, this language was
19 picked up from the Intergovernmental Agreement
20 that had been drafted last year. We simply
21 used a definition that was as expansive as what
22 was ---
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I do ---
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: We need to give the staff as much
25 flexibility as they need to get the job done.
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1 I'm perfectly fine with adjusting the amount to
2 what's allowable under the eight percent cap,
3 and we'll adjust that accordingly on September
4 the 3rd, whenever our next meeting is, Tuesday
5 after Labor Day. But the ability to meet
6 whatever needs that we have, let staff figure
7 it out without micromanaging it.
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: So your motion now, just so we're
10 clear ---
11 MS. PLAUGH: Right.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: What is your motion and we'll act
13 on that motion and then we'll move forward.
14 MS. PLAUGH: Well, and I need to see is my second --
15 I'll modify my motion to say that 7.3 million
16 or 7.4, whatever you all say is the right
17 number, for now, knowing it'll adjust. Let's
18 say 7.4. And that we have the broader language
19 rolling stock and Bull Street with the
20 exclusion of a baseball stadium. That's the
21 only exclusion, the baseball stadium language.
22 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Is that a new motion or a
23 substitute motion or amendment to the original
24 motion, what is that?
25 MS. PLAUGH: I'm restating that motion.
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I understand ---
2 MS. PLAUGH: I amended -- no, I have to amend it, I
3 think. Where is my parliamentarian?
4 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
5 MS. PLAUGH: I think I have to amend my motion and
6 see if my ---
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Can we get Ken on the phone.
8 MS. PLAUGH: (Inaudible.)
9 MAYOR BENJAMIN: He'll settle this. You set them
10 up?
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Yes.
12 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right.
13 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah. Figured.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I think we need to make sure staff
15 has as much flexibility as possible. I will
16 vote your motion and I will call for a
17 substitute motion authorizing the issuance of
18 the reduce par amount recognizing the eight
19 percent debt limit, but giving the staff the
20 flexibility that they need recognizing that
21 everything that we do with this board (ph) will
22 come back before this Council. Any more
23 discussion of the -- of the -- I forget this
24 stuff, the amended motion or -- what the proper
25 terminology is.
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1 UNKNOWN MALE: I guess it's just restating your
2 motion for ---
3 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Okay. All right.
4 UNKNOWN MALE: So this is the initial motion ---
5 MS. PLAUGH: The restated motion.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Restated, restated, okay.
7 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
8 UNKNOWN MALE: You don't have a second on your
9 substitute, Mayor.
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Huh?
11 UNKNOWN MALE: You haven't received a second on your
12 ---
13 UNKNOWN MALE: Second.
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I didn't have a substitute.
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Oh, I thought you did.
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah, I thought you used ---
17 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
18 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, no. Now, I was talking about
19 her substitute. No, no, no.
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm so sorry.
21 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No, no, no, I was teasing you about
22 it.
23 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
24 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm not going to engage ---
25 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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1 MAYOR BENJAMIN: I'm not going to engage in the
2 parliamentary games tonight. You know, we'll
3 take things up or vote them up or down. I
4 think staff needs to have flexibility to get
5 things done. And I trust staff to for
6 (inaudible) that as it arises. So, no, we're
7 going on Ms. Plaugh's motion. All right. And
8 further discussions on it?
9 UNKNOWN MALE: Mr. ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Please, Mr. (Inaudible).
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Ms. Plaugh's motion is to go with the
12 7.38 -- 7,380 -- 7,384, 151,000,000 to rolling
13 stock and Bull Street but excluding a baseball
14 stadium, correct?
15 MS. PLAUGH: Correct.
16 UNKNOWN MALE: I second that.
17 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Okay. Move the previous question
18 for a follow up?
19 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
20 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye.
21 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
22 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
23 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
24 MR. NEWMAN: No.
25 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
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1 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
2 MS. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
3 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
4 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
5 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
6 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
7 MAYOR BENJAMIN: No.
8 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible) in the Ordinance number
9 2013 ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: And I'm recusing myself from that
11 one.
12 MS. WILSON: Okay. A Tenth supplemental Ordinance
13 providing for the issuance and sale of City of
14 Columbia, South Carolina, Waterworks and Sewer
15 System Revenue Bonds, in one or more series in
16 the aggregate principal amount of not exceeding
17 $90,000,000 in order to finance certain
18 improvements to the system; authorizing the
19 mayor, the city manager and the chief financial
20 officer, or any two of them acting together, to
21 determine certain matters with respect to
22 bonds; prescribing the form and details of such
23 bonds; and other matters relating thereto.
24 UNKNOWN MALE: I just want to put on the record why
25 the mayor recused himself. Parker Poe is the
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1 underwriters counsel in this bond issuance and
2 he has a financial interest, so he's executed
3 the ethics form and filed it with the city
4 clerk to be put into the minutes.
5 UNKNOWN FEMALE: So moved.
6 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Any questions?
7 MS. PLAUGH: I ---
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Second.
9 MS. PLAUGH: I have ---
10 MAYOR BENJAMIN: All right. So moved, and seconded.
11 Ms. Plaugh?
12 MS. PLAUGH: I have concerns about -- and I've
13 talked your staff about this, and issuing debt
14 for 90,000 when we told the public we were
15 issuing debt for 80,000.
16 UNKNOWN VOICE: For 80 million.
17 MS. PLAUGH: Thank you (inaudible).
18 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible.)
19 MS. PLAUGH: 90 million versus we told the public 80
20 million. I did have a chance to talk with
21 Brent and I think the issue really is we have
22 a simple interpretation -- that's much more
23 complicated than this, I know that -- is that
24 we might need a reserve fund. And so we need
25 to have allowances for that. If we need to do
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1 it as a reserve fund. So I know the mayor
2 seems to think these are strange games but I
3 would like to offer a substitute motion that
4 would issue not to exceed 80 million with the
5 reserve fund of up to 6 million if needed so
6 that it further tracks what I think the public
7 is expecting of us in terms of what we're
8 issuing in debt.
9 UNKNOWN MALE: May I ask a question? Does that mean
10 that up to $86 million of bonds can be issued
11 under this ordinance, is that correct?
12 80,000,000 million for project ---
13 MS. PLAUGH: No, 80 million in debt. You can use
14 the other six -- so what my motion is, the
15 other six is a reserve fund if needed. And if
16 the reserve fund is not needed you're not
17 issuing 86 in debt.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: But if you do need the reserve fund
19 then you can issue up to 86 million?
20 MS. PLAUGH: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
21 UNKNOWN MALE: And the 80 million would be for both
22 the project fund and to pay for, I guess, cost
23 of issuance? It would not include the reserve
24 fund, correct?
25 MS. PLAUGH: Right.
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1 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
2 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay. Brent, do you want to speak to
3 the size of the reserve?
4 MR. ROBERTSON: Sure. Well, just for a little bit
5 of background, the CIP that was put together by
6 Darrell Parker and became the basis for the
7 rates and charges that were adopted by Council
8 and then subsequently changed but the rates and
9 charges that exist now, it's a $500 million
10 CIP.
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 UNKNOWN MALE: This finally ran you off, huh?
13 (Laughing.)
14 UNKNOWN MALE: It's going to get really good.
15 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
16 MR. ROBERTSON: So, just a little background. It's
17 a $500 million CIP, $100 million a year, 20
18 million in cash, 80 million in bonds. The 80
19 million speaks to the amount of projects that
20 would be funded with bonds, but funding 80
21 million -- funding $80 million worth of
22 projects from bonds doesn't necessarily mean
23 you're going to be issuing exactly $80 million.
24 There can be premium or discount depending on
25 market conditions or reserve fund cost
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1 additions, et cetera, et cetera. So, when we
2 worked with Darrell to run out the numbers on
3 the CIP, what we focused on was the dollar
4 amount of the projects to be funded, the $80
5 million, not the par amount of the bonds. For
6 me that's a little bit more detail, what I'm
7 discovering now, which is significant detail
8 from Ms. Plaugh's perspective. But from --
9 again, just from my perspective in working with
10 the CIP, what I'm concerned about is when
11 there's $80 million worth of projects that are
12 being financed with bonds, what's the annual
13 debt service number that that produces that
14 becomes the basis for the rates and charges
15 that the customers are paying. Okay. That
16 specific number is $5.2 million. $5.2 million
17 is the dollar amount that the CIP and the basis
18 for all the rates and charges that you all
19 approved, that 5.2 million is what's necessary
20 for the $80 million worth of projects, whether
21 it's -- and Ms. Plaugh and I've talked about
22 this a good bit, we really got into the weeds
23 ---
24 MS. PLAUGH: We did.
25 MR. ROBERTSON: --- talking about market conditions,
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1 et cetera, et cetera. Right now, I think we
2 could fund all $80 million worth of projects by
3 issuing less than $80 million because I really
4 don't think we're going to need a reserve fund
5 when we price, at least that certainly my hope,
6 and I think we're going to get paid more than
7 100 cents on the dollar in original issuance
8 premium. But market conditions can change.
9 You know, we've dealt with ---
10 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- any amount ---
11 MR. ROBERTSON: Exactly. So -- and as I said to Ms.
12 Plaugh, there's no -- from my perspective
13 there's no sleight of hand here. There's no
14 desire to try to pull one on Council or put one
15 over on the public. Any time I come before you
16 all, I'm going to push as hard as I can to get
17 as high of a not to exceed par amount as I can
18 knowing full well that, at least from my
19 perspective, my marching orders are to stay
20 true to the rate structure that you all put in
21 place, the $5.2 million annual debt service and
22 the project account funded. And so, as I said
23 to Ms. Plaugh, I'm the one who recommended the
24 $90 million. It was based on what if the
25 rating agencies say we need to a debt service
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1 reserve fund. What if the impact of the
2 Detroit bankruptcy makes the municipal market
3 just go haywire and we don't have a premium
4 bond structure, we have a discount bond
5 structure. That's why I put the $90 million on
6 there. It's a nice comfortable amount that I'm
7 confident we can get all of our projects
8 financed and stay at that $5.2 million annual
9 debt service so that there isn't another round
10 of rate increases related to this bond issue.
11 But I also understand Ms. Plaugh's perspective
12 of what, $80 million in projects versus $80
13 million in bonds may be a -- may be it's a
14 distinction without a difference in the eyes of
15 the public. For me, when it comes to actual
16 market access, it -- there is a big -- a
17 difference, but.
18 UNKNOWN MALE: Brent, also the -- thanks for that.
19 The question that Ms. Plaugh had asked, which
20 I then passed on to you was, is eight -- you
21 know, is $6 million enough? I would think that
22 if a reserve fund was needed it would likely be
23 funded in, you know, the lesser of three tests
24 under federal tax law, so it would likely be at
25 least ten percent of the par amount of the
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1 bonds. So, I would think -- I mean, I don't
2 know what the numbers were that George and his
3 folks ran out, but I would have thought $8
4 million for a reserve fund would be closer to
5 ---
6 MR. ROBERTSON: No, I think -- if we're going to
7 change this, I think we'd be okay ---
8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: You should have 5.5 and I've upped
9 it up to 6.
10 UNKNOWN MALE: Yeah, under the lesser ---
11 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
12 MR. ROBERTSON: Yeah, under the -- well, under the
13 lesser three -- well, this is another good
14 question. Under the lesser of three debts or
15 the structure, which is you look at the lesser
16 of ten percent of the par amount of bonds
17 issued, maximum annual debt service, or 125
18 percent of average annual debt service. Under
19 a level debt service structure, that answer
20 every time is going to be maximum annual debt
21 service. We've already established that 5.2
22 million is the amount that we're not going to
23 go over because that's what rates and charges
24 are based on. So a $6 million reserve fund
25 would be more than sufficient if we're going to
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1 be getting very narrow in how we're defining
2 this amount for projects, this amount of the
3 reserve funds. What could change that? Well,
4 what if we decided to change the debt service
5 structure. What if some time prior to pricing
6 we decided we didn't want to do a level debt
7 service structure, we did something to change
8 the way the principle is maturing. The consent
9 decree causes us to have to do some things
10 differently. We don't want to be bumping rates
11 and charges on folks, so we're going to scope
12 the debt service a little bit differently. But
13 that service number could change and then
14 instead of being 5.2 million it could be eight
15 million, it could be ten percent of par. I
16 don't know. And again, it's -- I'm not trying
17 to play fast and loose, I just like the
18 flexibility.
19 UNKNOWN MALE: And for what it's worth the, you
20 know, what -- to change the ordinance as you
21 suggest, I would imagine, for example, the
22 title of the ordinance, instead of saying
23 authorizing the ordinance of not exceeding 90
24 million, now it would say authorizing the
25 issuance of not exceeding $80 million of bonds
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1 for the purpose of funding projects and cost of
2 issuance and to authorize the issuance of not
3 exceeding $6 million of bonds for the purpose
4 of funding reserve fund if -- you know, I'm not
5 trying to argue against the point, but you
6 would -- it would introduce a concept of the --
7 it would almost look like a second bond was
8 being issued, quite frankly, and the -- in the
9 (inaudible).
10 MS. PLAUGH: I mean, I, again, I don't know how my
11 colleagues feel about this, but for me, if the
12 reserve fund needed to be at eight million,
13 again, the who idea is that the public and
14 citizens can react to, you know, we said we
15 were going to be issuing 80 million, we're
16 issuing 80 million. We have to have these
17 other costs associated with that issue and so
18 they can see it.
19 MR. ROBERTSON: One -- another -- an alternative ---
20 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
21 UNKNOWN MALE: I'm sorry?
22 UNKNOWN MALE: What?
23 MS. DEVINE: (Inaudible) she wasn't sure (inaudible)
24 and I talk about this earlier, and I certainly
25 understand her concerns, but I definitely want
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1 us to have a flexibility. Knowing that we have
2 to do these projects and we put in the schedule
3 as to what we want to do when, you know, I
4 would like for staff to have flexibility up to
5 the 90. I'm -- you know, I trust staff and,
6 you know, we've had lots of issues where things
7 are coming in a lot lower than Brent expected
8 and we were pleasantly surprised. So I think
9 that we -- they'll be responsible in issuing
10 stuff but I think having that flexibility
11 because you don't know what will happen in the
12 market. I wouldn't want us not to be able to
13 issue what we need to, what we've committed to
14 as far as the -- even the project.
15 MR. ROBERTSON: And just, Ms. Plaugh, you and I
16 didn't talk about this, but by way of example,
17 I went back and looked at our last water sewer
18 transaction which was the 2012 funds. We issued
19 58 million ultimately, market conditions, we
20 didn't have to go to reserve fund, et cetera,
21 et cetera. It was a $58 million issuance. Not
22 to exceed par amount of the ordinance was 72
23 million. So, we came in $14 million under
24 that. I mean I think we're talking about a
25 thinner margin here. Again, I don't know
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1 whether that gives you individually the comfort
2 level of we've done this in the past where we
3 put in a really fat not to exceed par amount,
4 but again, it really just goes to a lot of the
5 uncertainties that I've got in the time between
6 second reading of the ordinance and when bonds
7 actually get priced.
8 UNKNOWN MALE: Mr. Baddourah?
9 MR. BADDOURAH: (Inaudible) he started to say we
10 haven't really maxed out on our fund limits.
11 I mean we've always had CIP Projects, you know,
12 80 million and we've always used up a lot less
13 than that. I think in the past year or two, so
14 I just don't know that I need that much
15 flexibility, I mean, (inaudible). The funding
16 was approved for $80 million with a CIP project
17 and that's (inaudible) what we expect them to
18 do.
19 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, that -- the $90 million
20 contemplates the funding of 80 million in
21 projects, not par amount of being a (inaudible)
22 issue, you can't issue 80 million in bonds and
23 finance 80 million in projects because if there
24 is a reserve fund that would have to come out
25 of the $80 million. There's cost of issuance
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1 associated with the transaction, that would
2 come out of the 80 million.
3 MR. BADDOURAH: We haven't been ---
4 UNKNOWN FEMALE: When you say -- and then with the
5 items that you have are in jeopardy.
6 MR. BADDOURAH: It may even -- even in the past
7 three years. I mean, we -- you know, I think
8 that items are corrected, then the budget
9 calendar year, you know, 65 million, I think
10 would be what did in projects but we had all
11 these leftovers and ---
12 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yes, sir. I think the amendment
13 there is planning on (inaudible) but the
14 (inaudible) projects (inaudible).
15 UNKNOWN MALE: Well ---
16 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
17 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
18 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I -- the motion. I'll modify it.
19 You had something you wanted to ---
20 MR. ROBERTSON: I was going some place and then
21 Michael was raising something else, and now ---
22 (Inaudible discussion.)
23 UNKNOWN MALE: Well, yeah, -- oh, to Mr. Baddourah's
24 point, so -- and this is something else that
25 Ms. Plaugh and I talked about, this is getting
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1 a little bit down in the weeds. The $90
2 million is not just a number that I grab out of
3 the air, what sounds good, $90 million. I push
4 it as high as I can get to where I feel like it
5 is reasonable but also politically palatable.
6 It's a number that we can latch onto, it's an
7 estimate but it's not something that's -- it's
8 not 190 million, it's $90 million. When we
9 start backing off on the flexibility, and again
10 I'm clear -- I am being transparent here, I'm
11 very selfish about it, I like the $90 million
12 because it's based on market conditions of what
13 I'm seeing and where I think it's going to go.
14 To the extent that we back off on that, and if
15 we end up with say an $86 million not to exceed
16 amount. Okay, so we've got $80 million we can
17 issue for projects and 6 million for a reserve
18 fund. If the market changes on us and we do
19 need that reserve fund and we have a discount
20 bond structure, that results in bond investors
21 paying us less than 100 cents on the dollar.
22 If we have a net original issue discount, just
23 to take us out of the weeds, what does that
24 mean, Brent? That means we won't have $80
25 million for a project account, we would have
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1 more like $77 million for the project account.
2 MR. BADDOURAH: Say that again.
3 MR. ROBERTSON: Market conditions and how bonds are
4 sold, bondholders, bond investors don't
5 necessarily pay 100 cents on the dollar every
6 time. They might pay 99 cents on the dollar,
7 they might be 102 cents on the dollar, it just
8 depends on where they're buying bonds and the
9 yield curve and what market conditions are at
10 that point in time. That's how -- that's just
11 the market reality. That's the fixed rate.
12 And if you've got the rate that's fixed, it
13 going to vary depending on the pricing on any
14 given day. If we end up -- right now we're in
15 a net original issuance premium market where I
16 said that we're going to be able to finance all
17 of our projects for less than $80 million in
18 bonds, that's because we're going to get paid
19 about $5 million in premium under current
20 market estimates. Well, what if -- what if the
21 tables completely turned and the premium went
22 away and we lost all of it and it went to a
23 discount where we're getting $3 million of
24 discount. How would we rectify that? If we've
25 got sufficient not to exceed par, we would just
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1 issue additional par. It sounds like you're
2 going the wrong direction but you're not. The
3 discount bond carries with it a lower coupon,
4 a lower fixed rate. What does that mean, it
5 means we stay at the $5.2 million, that's the
6 basis for the rates and charges the customers
7 are paying. So when we back off on the not to
8 exceed par amount, if we get into bad pricing
9 conditions it can result in an underfunded
10 project account.
11 UNKNOWN MALE: Mr. Runyan?
12 MR. RUNYAN: I was just going to say I think, it's
13 my opinion that we need to give them the
14 flexibility to do (inaudible) my opinion, and
15 to play the market, what happens in the market
16 (inaudible) we don't really know and we don't
17 want to get caught with the bullet in the
18 barrel by boxing ourselves in. So I think we
19 need to give them the latitude, give them the
20 90 million, do not to exceed would be my
21 recommendation (inaudible).
22 MR. ROBERTSON: And again, I'm being transparent.
23 I like the $90 million, I think it has a firm
24 foundation in market realities and what we're
25 trying to in a manner that's consistent with
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1 what we've told rate payers that they're going
2 to be paying. But ---
3 MS. PLAUGH: The people don't understand that ---
4 MR. ROBERTSON: And I understand and I work for you
5 all.
6 MS. PLAUGH: They understand how much debt we said
7 we'd -- you know, 80 million is the number
8 that's out there. You know, what I said I
9 wasn't going to go through all this, but I've
10 already had somebody ask me about it and the
11 issue is they are pushing at 90 million. Okay,
12 so you said you were going to issue 80 and
13 you're going to have 20 million in cash, now
14 you're going to issue 90 and you're going to
15 have 10 million in cash. What are you doing
16 with the other 10 million. You know, so that's
17 why I started the discussion is that people
18 just see a number, it doesn't match what they
19 were told and they have questions so I was
20 trying to get to what you needed in a different
21 way ---
22 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
23 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm asking -- that's my question.
24 I mean (inaudible) but I'm trying to get
25 Michael and Brent to confirm that the language
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1 can change even if it says up to 10 million, if
2 that makes Brent more comfortable (inaudible)
3 changed to the not to exceed $80 million plus
4 up to the (inaudible) $10 million reserve for
5 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, cost and ---
6 MR. ROBERTSON: Just for clarification so ---
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm just trying to get at the $80
8 million number.
9 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
10 MR. ROBERTSON: Okay. So, if it were to read the
11 issuance of bonds for $80 million in projects
12 and up to $10 million for reserves and --
13 necessary reserves and issuance cost.
14 MS. PLAUGH: Yeah.
15 UNKNOWN VOICE: (Inaudible.)
16 MR. ROBERTSON: Can we do that? Well, let me ask --
17 -
18 UNKNOWN MALE: And we would put that into the body
19 of the ordinance only or we would need to put
20 that in the title of the ordinance?
21 MS. PLAUGH: Oh, I don't think -- I mean, you know,
22 I guess people saw what was on our agenda, so
23 I mean that's what people (inaudible).
24 MR. ROBERTSON: That still gives the flexibility
25 that I'm looking for, if we can do it from a
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1 legal standpoint.
2 UNKNOWN MALE: I think we can do that.
3 MR. ROBERTSON: And that's all we're doing. The $80
4 million project account, that's all -- that's
5 all that's been ---
6 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
8 MR. ROBERTSON: Yeah, I think what we'd be talking
9 about is in the title it says the Tenth
10 Supplemental Ordinance providing for the
11 issuance and sale of City of Columbia
12 Waterworks and Sewer System revenue bonds, in
13 one or more series, in the Aggregate Principal
14 amount of not exceeding $90 million, consisting
15 of not exceeding $80 million to fund capital
16 improvements for the system and not exceeding
17 $10 million of such bonds to finance necessary
18 reserves and issuance costs. And that's how I
19 propose to do it. I mean it's still stating
20 not exceeding 90 million but then it would
21 explain what the 90 million -- yeah.
22 MS. PLAUGH: I think I can live with that. Then
23 they're -- public ---
24 MR. ROBERTSON: Okay.
25 MS. PLAUGH: --- you know, people can see it.
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1 That's all I was trying to get to.
2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: (Inaudible.)
3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yes (inaudible).
4 MS. PLAUGH: And if you all can state it however it
5 needs to be stated.
6 UNKNOWN MALE: Okay.
7 UNKNOWN MALE: Can I get you to read (inaudible)?
8 MR. ROBERTSON: It does, it does. Thank you.
9 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
10 MR. ROBERTSON: Those are good -- they're good
11 questions, they're good questions.
12 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
13 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Mine would still say the same,
14 which is amending ---
15 UNKNOWN MALE: (Inaudible.)
16 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- the way that it stated 80
17 million in project up to 10 billion in reserve.
18 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Necessary ---
19 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Yeah, I don't have ---
20 UNKNOWN FEMALE: --- reserve.
21 MR. ROBERTSON: And issuance cost.
22 UNKNOWN FEMALE: It would be clean on your ---
23 UNKNOWN MALE: All right. Well (inaudible) ---
24 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
25 MS. MOORE: All right. Mr. Baddourah?
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1 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye
2 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
3 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
4 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
5 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
6 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
7 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
8 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
9 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
10 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
11 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
12 MS. MOORE: Thank you.
13 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
14 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Moved and second, any discussion?
15 What time is it? All right, Clerk, call the
16 roll.
17 MS. MOORE: Mr. Baddourah?
18 MR. BADDOURAH: Aye
19 MS. MOORE: Mr. Runyan?
20 MR. RUNYAN: Aye.
21 MS. MOORE: Mr. Newman?
22 MR. NEWMAN: Aye.
23 MS. MOORE: Ms. Plaugh?
24 MS. PLAUGH: Aye.
25 MR. MOORE: Ms. Devine?
CREEL COURT REPORTING, INC. 1230 Richland Street / Columbia, SC 29201 (803) 252-3445 / (800) 822-0896 TRANSCRIPT OF CITY OF COLUMBIA CITY COUNCIL MEETING475
1 MS. DEVINE: Aye.
2 MS. MOORE: Mr. Davis?
3 MR. DAVIS: Aye.
4 MS. MOORE: Mayor Benjamin?
5 MAYOR BENJAMIN: Aye.
6 (Simultaneous speaking - inaudible.)
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