Thursday Volume 496 16 July 2009 No. 113

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 16 July 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 427 16 JULY 2009 428

that does not necessarily mean that the process of House of Commons approving the money needs to be long term. There needs to be greater dispatch in bringing things to a conclusion, particularly where strategically important Thursday 16 July 2009 companies are involved that are part of the global and regional economies, one example being Jaguar Land Rover in the west midlands and in the north-west. The House met at half-past Ten o’clock Mr. McFadden: Constructive discussions between the Government and Jaguar Land Rover are continuing. PRAYERS The Government are keen to help, but of course the terms must be right. I assure my hon. Friend that the Government are not seeking to delay help at all, but we [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] want to ensure that the help that we give is in line with the aims of the scheme as set out when we launched it. I remind my hon. Friend, who represents the area covering Oral Answers to Questions Longbridge, that only last week we were being criticised for being too ready to put Government money into the car industry. It is absolutely right that we ensure that in BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS doing this we get appropriate value for money and do it for long-term reinvestment projects that can help to The Minister of State was asked— secure the long-term health of the UK automotive industry. Automotive Assistance Scheme Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con): I fully endorse 1. Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): What assessment he the concerns expressed about the urgency of dealing has made of the rate of take-up of the automotive with Jaguar Land Rover, but the supply chain in the assistance scheme. [287048] automotive sector is also in crisis. Is the Minister able to clarify his position on closing the gap in eligibility The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr. Pat under the enterprise finance guarantee scheme and the McFadden): As we said at the time of its launch, the automotive assistance programme to help the supply automotive assistance scheme is for long-term reinvestment chain? in the industry, not short-term rescue funding. The Department has been in contact with about two thirds of all companies who may qualify for assistance under Mr. McFadden: The hon. Gentleman echoes a point the scheme, resulting in 19 formal expressions of interest that has been raised by several potential applicants so far. Projects in the pipeline could involve total under the scheme about the £5 million threshold. My Government support of about £1.45 billion. officials have worked with companies in that position to help them to brigade potential projects. We want to take Sandra Gidley: I thank the Minister for that reply. a flexible and helpful attitude to this; we are not in the There seems to have been some delay in allocating loans business of turning away companies for no good reason. or guarantees under the scheme. Could the Minister clarify why that is? Is it because the conditions set out in Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I have listened carefully the scheme’s criteria are too strict? Clearly, the money to what the Minister is saying about long-term investment, has not yet found its way to most manufacturers. but that does not mean long-term lead-in. If we look across the channel to France and Germany, and then Mr. McFadden: As I said, it is important to understand further afield to the US and Japan, we can see that they that this scheme is about long-term reinvestment projects, have already delivered substantial amounts of assistance, not short-term rescue. The Secretary of State said at the so I do not understand why it is taking so long in the time of its launch: United Kingdom. For the past six months, while Parliament “There is no blank cheque on offer and there are no operating has been sitting, nothing has happened—not a single subsidies. We are committed to ensuring that anything backed by the scheme offers value for taxpayers’ money, enables us to green penny has been given to any automotive company. Now Britain’s economic recovery” that we are going into recess, perhaps the Minister and could give a guarantee about at least some funding coming through to the automotive sector—and during “delivers significant innovation in processes”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 27 January 2009; Vol. 707, c. 178.] his holidays, perhaps he would like to pop over to France and Germany to see how they have managed to We are working through these projects with the companies do it there when we cannot seem to do it here. concerned. I can assure the hon. Lady and the House that there is no delay on the Government’s part. We are working closely with the companies concerned, but we Mr. McFadden: I have to disagree with the hon. Lady also want to ensure that we get value for money and the when she says that no help has been given to the long-term benefits of reinvestment for the industry automotive industry. She ignores the car scrappage concerned. scheme, which has been in place for some months and has helped to boost a significant number of sales in the Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): I UK automotive industry. That is giving real help in the endorse what my right hon. Friend says about the short term to automotive companies. I think that it is automotive assistance scheme being about long-term widely recognised as being a success. This scheme is investment in green technologies, and so on. However, different in that it is geared towards long-term reinvestment, 429 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 430 not only towards the short-term issues facing the car businesses in the west midlands, particularly in the industry. We are working diligently, carefully and Coventry area. How can Advantage West Midlands productively with the companies that are making assist small businesses to speed that help up? applications under the scheme. Ms Winterton: As my hon. Friend is aware, my hon. Learndirect Programme Friend the Minister for the West Midlands, through his taskforce, has looked very closely at how to help small and medium-sized enterprises. I know that the Advantage 2. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): West Midlands transition bridge fund has made offers What recent representations he has received on the of loans totalling some £9.3 million to 55 local businesses future of the Learndirect programme; and if he will to date, and I believe that nine of those are located in make a statement. [287049] his constituency in Coventry and Warwickshire.

The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships Mr. Mark Prisk (Hertford and Stortford) (Con): and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): There has been Yesterday, the chief executive of Jaguar Land Rover, recent interest in Learndirect’s proposals to develop its such an important business in the west midlands, announced technology and support more learners directly over the 300 job cuts and said that further action would depend internet and telephone. We are examining the results of in part on how quickly the agreed loan from the European the trials, but for the foreseeable future we will continue Investment Bank was forthcoming. Given that Ministers to see face-to-face contact as a core aspect of delivery agreed on that loan three months ago, why are the for many learners. company and its workers still waiting? The French and German Governments delivered their loans from the David Taylor: With more than one in 10 young people EIB months ago. Why is it that under this Government, not in education, employment or training, it is good car firms in Britain are the last to get the help that they news that the Train to Gain programme in Learndirect have been promised? Is it deliberate Government policy centres and elsewhere has increased its uptake by 60 per or just incompetence? cent. to 800,000. Why, then, is the Learning and Skills Council struggling with its current Train to Gain budget Ms Winterton: Yesterday’s decision was not connected and the university for industry shutting down all Learndirect with the ongoing negotiations about working with Jaguar centres in 2010? Is there a real future for Learndirect Land Rover. It was to do with a particular type of and Train to Gain? production coming to an end. The support that the Government are giving to the west midlands, working Kevin Brennan: First, Learndirect will not be shutting through the regional development agency, has ensured down all its centres by July 2010. It has been consulting that we have been able to safeguard jobs and help its network of providers about a possible new approach, businesses. The Opposition, of course, would abolish but as I said earlier, that approach is being tested and RDAs, which would mean that the type of help that we the Government will be consulted before any final have provided would not be available. decisions are taken. On the future of Train to Gain, we will be spending £1 billion in 2011, building on the Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): My right expenditure this year. Train to Gain is safe with this hon. Friend is quite right in her comments. The west Government, although not with the Opposition, who midlands suffered two major recessions in the 1980s. would cut it. Does she accept that urgent steps are now necessary to help places such as mine in the west midlands that rely Manufacturing heavily on the manufacturing industry? We do not want the curse of mass unemployment to come back. 3. Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made of levels of Ms Winterton: My hon. Friend is right. In that context, growth in the manufacturing sector in (a) Coventry and the last thing we want is public expenditure cuts, as (b) the West Midlands. [287051] proposed by the Conservative party. I think that the manufacturing advisory service has been able to give The Minister for Regional Economic Development and some direct help. Last year, the MAS helped approximately Co-ordination (Ms Rosie Winterton): The manufacturing 2,600 companies in the west midlands and increased the sector remains absolutely vital to the west midlands value of business up to £85 million. My hon. Friend is economy. Advantage West Midlands and its partners right: we need to get that direct help out there quickly. are focusing investment on major markets in which the region has strength and which offer the best prospects London Metropolitan University for wealth creation and employment as we come out of recession. We have an industry growth programme worth 5. Mr. Rob Wilson (Reading, East) (Con): What £30 million in the current financial year and £25 million recent discussions he has had with the Higher next year, of which 75 per cent. is focused on the Education Funding Council for England on its funding manufacturing sector. for London Metropolitan university. [287053]

Mr. Cunningham: I thank my right hon. Friend for The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual that answer, but I recently attended a conference in Property (Mr. David Lammy): I have been in regular Coventry organised by the Warwickshire partnerships, touch with HEFCE about the serious situation at London which are part of the sub-regional CBI. They voiced Met. I fully support HEFCE’s decision to commission concerns about the slowness in getting help to small an independent review of its actions, which it will 431 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 432 publish shortly. A similar inquiry into the university’s The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships actions is necessary. It is therefore right that the new and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): I have asked the acting vice-chancellor of the university has asked Sir Learning and Skills Council to review all national skills David Melville to conduct such a review, which will academy funding proposals in the light of the funding investigate all aspects of what happened, including issues that is available. The Learning and Skills Council expects of governance. to be able to make an announcement soon. Mr. Wilson: I thank the Minister for his answer, but what happened at London Met is a national scandal. Is Andrew Mackinlay: “Soon” is ambiguous. Does the he aware that dozens of other higher education institutions Minister mean in the next few days? In that case, I are facing significant budget deficits next year? According would tick the box marked “joined-up government”. to the funding council, seven higher education institutions However, if he does not provide funding—approximately are already described as at high risk of financial failure, £650,000—immediately, this side of the recess, the project including London Met and Thames Valley university in will be put in jeopardy. It is a flagship project—culturally, my constituency. According to sources at the funding through its co-location with the Royal Opera House council, that could increase to as many as 30 next year. project, and in its relation to the Thames Gateway Can the Minister confirm the scale of the financial project and the projects for the Olympic games. I want crisis and tell the House exactly what he will do about it? to know whether we will get our money so that the design and the work can commence soon. I need to Mr. Lammy: With due respect, I think that my sources know that before we go into recess. Answer now. at the funding council are slightly better than the hon. Gentleman’s. The situation at London Met is very serious— Kevin Brennan: My hon. Friend has made his point and extraordinary. It is not unusual for institutions to with his characteristic command of the colloquial and have problems during the course of a year in relation to plain-speaking, so perhaps I can put it this way: I’m students who drop out of courses. In that case, money on it. has to be clawed back from the funding council. However, the scale of the problems that has been revealed at Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) London Met is unusual. The review that is now being (Con): Perhaps the Minister’s honesty will continue in conducted is therefore important. The Govt will look at his answer to my question. He will know that creative the recommendations— and cultural skills are vital for our economy. The UK Mr. Speaker: I call Adam Afriyie. has the largest cultural sector in the world in terms of proportion of GDP,employing 1 million people. However, Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. a recent report by Tom Bewick, the director general of I am sorry for taking a while to get to the Dispatch the sector skills council, says that there are more than a Box—there are many colleagues on the Front Bench. “hundred employers queuing up to take part” London Metropolitan university offers excellent scientific in new creative and cultural apprenticeships, research, high level science degrees and an ultra modern “but they cannot currently do so because government is failing to science centre. The Minister’s answer was not good actively engage”. enough because, on 20 May in a debate in Westminster Hall, following serious allegations of collusion between In revealing precisely how few businesses in the sector HEFCE and LMU over the drop-out rates, which led to receive funding, will the Minister scotch the rumour the crisis, he gave a clear and unambiguous commitment that the Government intend to transfer powers from to the House. He said: sectors to regions? “There will, of course, be an independent inquiry”.—[Official Report, Westminster Hall, 20 May 2009; Vol. 492, c.457.] Kevin Brennan: Well, yes. Obviously, the creative sector When will that independent inquiry begin? The Minister is an extremely important and growing part of the has a choice: he can either confirm the inquiry or economy. We recognise its critical importance, and I apologise for the misinformation. recognise the importance of the capital bid that my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman is not over the featured in his question. We are committed to the sector detail. There has been an independent inquiry by KPMG, and to providing support to national skills academies. commissioned by the funding council. It will report to the board of the funding council and be published in Steel Industry due course. Sir David Melville, the former vice-chancellor of Kent university, is undertaking another inquiry into what happened at London Met. That, too, will report in 7. Jessica Morden (Newport, East) (Lab): What the autumn. At that point, the Government will consider recent discussions he has had with representatives of the recommendations and, if there is something for us the steel industry on its future prospects. [287055] to do, we will do it. The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr. Pat Creative Arts (Thurrock) McFadden): We have had regular discussions with steel industry representatives in recent weeks. I have spoken 6. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): What on several occasions with Mr. Kirby Adams, the chief progress has been made in funding the proposed executive of Corus, and Mr. Michael Leahy of the trade co-location of the National Academy For Creative union Community about the future of the industry in And Cultural Skills and the Royal Opera House the UK. The Prime Minister will be meeting representatives production campus in Thurrock. [287054] of Corus later today. 433 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 434

Jessica Morden: The announcement last week of Graduate Job Prospects further job losses at Corus in Llanwern, coming on top of the 500-plus job losses already announced earlier this 8. Lynda Waltho (Stourbridge) (Lab): What steps he year, is more bad news for Welsh steelmakers and their is taking to assist students graduating in the summer of families. Can the Minister reassure me and my constituents 2009 to find employment. [287056] that progress is being made on the crucial issues of stimulating demand, energy prices and more money for The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual training? Property (Mr. David Lammy): These are undoubtedly tough times for graduates, but we should not forget that Mr. McFadden: In my discussions with the company, a degree remains a strong investment. Businesses are Corus has said that demand is the critical issue. Global continuing to recruit through the downturn, and the demand for steel has fallen sharply, and the United Government are obviously committed to helping graduates. Kingdom is not exempt from that. At the moment, Working with employers and universities, we are boosting Corus has the capacity to produce around 3 tonnes of the number of internships and offering more loans to steel for every tonne that it sells in the UK market. That support further studies, so graduates should remain is why it is critical that we maintain both the capital positive in difficult times. expenditure programme, in construction for example, which uses half the steel that Corus produces, and the Lynda Waltho: Recently, there was an announcement car scrappage scheme, which has helped to boost automotive of 1,000 new jobs, training places and internships in the sales, and that we resist the pressure for public expenditure west midlands, and young people, their parents and cuts, as advanced by the Opposition, which would hit their lecturers in my constituency and in the wider west demand and threaten steel jobs even further. midlands certainly welcome that. In Dudley, however, we are already suffering the effects of a botched school closure programme and a failure to take up Building Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): In Schools for the Future. What future does my hon. supporting the hon. Member for Newport, East (Jessica Friend foresee for the young people in my constituency Morden), may I ask the Minister to go a little further? if they are to suffer possible cuts alongside that idiosyncratic Steel is an essential part of the UK manufacturing education policy? sector. He has talked about bringing forward construction projects, but could he be more specific? Major civil Mr. Lammy: I know that my hon. Friend is a keen engineering projects could take up quite a lot of the advocate for the young people in her constituency, and I product of Corus, so could he give us any indication of am very pleased that internships are coming up in the the sort of projects that the Government are genuinely west midlands for them. It is important to get that bringing forward at this time? regional spread. She will be aware of the September guarantee to ensure that young people in her constituency Mr. McFadden: Just last week we announced more are offered training or guaranteed a job, should they social housing, which will help to stimulate demand in face unemployment. The Government are doing all the construction sector and increase demand for steel. they can, working across the Departments, to support My advice to the hon. Gentleman would be to speak to young people, because we do not want to see a lost his Front-Bench colleagues, because I very much agree generation, as we saw in previous downturns. with the sentiments of Mr. David Blanchflower of the Monetary Policy Committee, who has said: Stephen Williams (Bristol, West) (LD): Graduation parties taking place around the country at the moment “If you want to transform a recession into a depression, go are not the joyful occasions that some of us might ahead and cut public spending. I would advise against it…Voters remember, as graduates discuss their miserable job prospects. want jobs.” Yesterday, we heard the announcement of the Government’s I heartily agree. aspirations for green jobs and a greener economy, but we cannot meet our 2020 climate change targets without Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) investment in skills—particularly in our engineering (Lab): In congratulating my hon. Friend the Member base—or without innovation. Would now not be a good for Newport, East (Jessica Morden), let me say that her time to ensure that all new graduates in physics and campaign goes well beyond Wales, vital though that is. maths have a good chance of getting on to a research In my county of Lanarkshire we have men and women programme? At the moment, two thirds of such applications with the skills and potential to do still more, but we are turned down. would like to know what Corus’s strategy really is? Mr. Lammy: That is why we are supporting the innovation fund, which the Minister for Science and Mr. McFadden: I believe that Corus values its work Innovation, my noble Friend Lord Drayson, brought force, and that it is doing its best to maintain capacity in forward. That is also why we made the announcements a very difficult trading situation. As I have said, it has yesterday on low-carbon jobs. And that is why we have the capacity to produce roughly 3 tonnes of steel for established knowledge transfer partnerships to support every 1 tonne that it is able to sell at the moment. In young people, particularly those doing post-doctorate those circumstances, it is also working with the Government studies, working with businesses, often in low-carbon on extra training help for the work force, and we have areas. All of this is going on because we have balanced offered £5 million of help for that training effort in and managed funding for higher education, which is order to work with the company to help maintain its something that the Liberal Democrats have yet to work force through this difficult period. commit to. 435 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 436

Mr. David Willetts (Havant) (Con): Many proud Economic Downturn parents will be attending their children’s graduation ceremonies this week; indeed, I am one of them. I can 12. Tom Levitt (High Peak) (Lab): What assessment report to the Minister that there is a lot of concern he has made of the role of higher education in assisting about the job prospects for graduates. Why does not he individuals and businesses during the economic back the proposal that we have put forward to ensure downturn. [287062] that there are more opportunities for young graduates to go on to do taught masters courses at university? We The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual have identified specific savings this year to make that Property (Mr. David Lammy): Universities play an opportunity available for 25,000 graduates. Is that not important role in helping businesses and individuals far better than his tiny internship scheme, which does through the downturn, but also in securing our future nothing to match the scale of the problem, when one in success in a knowledge-driven economy. The Higher five young people are now unemployed? Education Funding Council for England has a £60 million economic challenge fund, which is expected to help Mr. Lammy: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman; this 11,000 business and 50,000 individuals through a range must be a wonderful time for his family. May I also of activities. remind him that we have seen a massive increase in masters courses and other postgraduate study over the Tom Levitt: I am grateful for that reply and I am sure past 13 years? The figures are up, not by 30 per cent. or that my right hon. Friend would wish to pay tribute to 60 per cent., but by 90 per cent., and 450,000 young the university of Derby at Buxton, which is co-ordinating people are now in postgraduate study, 350,000 of whom work with nine major companies in the food industry to are studying STEM—science, technology, engineering promote and co-ordinate apprenticeships and the upskilling and mathematics—subjects. The Opposition’s proposal of the work force. Will he recommend that regional is a little bit too late. Ministers throughout the country follow the example of the east midlands in taking the university sector on Overseas Students board as members of the regional economic cabinet?

10. Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) Mr. Lammy: My hon. Friend is right. I was pleased (LD): What his latest estimate is of the number of that universities acted so swiftly to ensure that they were overseas students in universities; and if he will make a plugged in and engaged with businesses regionally. It is right to say that the university of Derby has provided statement. [287059] an excellent example. As well as the project to which my hon. Friend referred, there is the economic challenge The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual fund bid, which is £2.27 million worth of support for Property (Mr. David Lammy): According to the Higher the unemployed in the area, working with industry and Education Statistics Agency, in total, there were 112,150 business. The university of Derby’s corporate project is non-UK EU students and 229,640 from elsewhere studying also about engaging with highly skilled people in the in UK higher education institutions in 2007-08. area. I congratulate the university, and I also congratulate the sector on what it is doing to support businesses in a Mr. Kennedy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Gosh, we difficult time. have reached question 10 and it is only just 11 o’clock! Given the additional administrative and legal Further Education Colleges requirements that the Government have placed on all universities for the handling of visa requirements for 13. Mr. Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): If he will overseas students, does the Minister recognise that there bring forward proposals to increase capital funding for is additional complexity and inconsistency in the way in further education colleges. [287063] which these applications are handled in the various home countries? There is also the length of the appeal The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships process to consider and the fact that if a foreign student and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): The Government studying at a university in Britain has to apply for an have already made a substantial commitment to extra extension, they now have to go via the UK Border funding for capital investment in further education Agency at an average individual cost of £357. Does not colleges in the Budget. We will be spending over £300 all that cut against the university policy encouraged by million more in the next two years, taking total planned the Government to win more overseas students to the spending to £1.2 billion. UK generally? Mr. Sanders: The recent announcement of funding Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman is right that there for FE colleges did not include a single college in the has been concern in the higher education sector about south-west region. Will the Government make available the new points-based system. We have worked consistently, the papers that show the decision-making process here, particularly with Universities UK, to address those so that people can see that the entire process was concerns. I am pleased that application rates are now transparent and that there was no political agenda equivalent to last year’s levels and that the number of behind the choice of colleges to receive funding? refusals has come down. There will be a meeting next week on 20 July between university vice-chancellors Kevin Brennan: A robust and thorough assessment by and the UK Border Agency to address any outstanding independent consultants took place, and the chief executive concerns, but there have been regular discussions and of the Learning and Skills Council has already committed progress is being made as we make this transition. to give the colleges their individual scores under the 437 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 438 system, and to publish them in full in the near future. Ian Lucas: I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman The process will be open and transparent, as recommended for drawing my attention to that individual case. I will by the Foster review. certainly look into the matter and try to take it forward. There have been glitches in the scheme, which the Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): Last week, I Department and officials working with me have been visited the brand new York further education college anxious to address. I am grateful to Members of Parliament once again. It draws students from my constituency and for bringing individual cases to my attention, and I urge neighbouring Liberal Democrat and Tory constituencies. them to do so again. It was made possible by capital from the Government, and is a fantastic £60 million new college. Will the Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire) (Con): Here Government continue to fund the building of new is another case for the Minister. One of my constituents colleges so that young people and adults in other towns has had a car in her family for many years, but sadly, her and cities in the country get the benefits seen in York, husband, in whose name the car was registered, died a and that building workers get jobs during the downturn? few months ago, and it appeared that the car was now Kevin Brennan: Yes, we will continue to do that. We outside the rules. I e-mailed an urgent inquiry to the have a forward programme, and so far, since 2001, Minister’s Department on 5 June, and followed it up on 700 projects have been built and nearly 330 colleges 23 June and 2 July. It is now 16 July, and there has been funded under the scheme. That has transformed the no answer on a clearly sensitive issue. I would be grateful further education estate for learners. How do we judge a if this was one of the glitches he ironed out. party on such an issue? We judge it on what it does and what it says it will do. The Conservative party did Ian Lucas: I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman. nothing when it was in power, spent nothing on FE I am surprised that he has not received an answer, capital in its last year in power, and has no plans for the because the circumstance to which he refers is one that future either. we have worked to address, and we hope that we have found a solution to the problem. I will come back to Mrs. Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): Basingstoke him immediately after questions. college of technology has already spent £1 million on developing plans for future expansion. Basingstoke is, Automotive Assistance Programme as designated by the Government, one of the most important employment areas in the country, and is part 16. Mr. Richard Spring (West Suffolk) (Con): What of the country’s future economic growth. Will the Minister progress has been made on the automotive assistance reassure me that such important strategic investments programme. [287067] will get the priority that they deserve, because that has not always been indicated in the past? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): This is well worth Kevin Brennan: In the autumn, the Learning and waiting for, Mr. Speaker. Skills Council will consult colleges on the future capital I refer the hon. Member to the earlier answer. programme, and a strategic approach will be taken based on priorities—learning priorities and so on. I Mr. Spring: Well, Mr. Speaker, it certainly was well assure her that the process will be fair, transparent, worth waiting for. thorough and objective. Have any specific discussions been undertaken with Vehicle Scrappage Scheme Nissan, and, if so, have any assurances been given about jobs located in the United Kingdom? 14. Mr. Colin Breed (South-East Cornwall) (LD): How much funding has been disbursed under the Ian Lucas: I regret to say that the discussions taking vehicle scrappage scheme to date. [287064] place with individual car companies are subject to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, commercial confidentiality. However, we are having active Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): More than 110,800 discussions with many car companies. In particular, we orders for new vehicles have been placed since the are investigating the development of green technologies, scrappage scheme was announced in the Budget. July and discussing, in the context of the automotive assistance vehicle registration figures are not published yet, so I package, the impressive way in which car companies— cannot give an exact answer. However, industry has including Nissan—are developing, for example, electronic indicated that total sales in June were 15 per cent. vehicles. We hope that announcements can be made higher than forecast. To date, £15,080,000 has been paid about the sector very shortly. out, and a further £14.5 million-worth of claims from Small and Medium-sized Enterprises manufacturers are being processed for payment. Mr. Breed: I thank the Minister for that response. 20. Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): May I also draw his attention to a slight discrepancy in What recent progress his Department has made in the rules regarding cars that were first registered in securing greater access to finance for small and Northern Ireland on or before 31 August 1999. My medium-sized enterprises. [287071] constituents, Andrew and Rachael Budd, found that although Ford, Renault and Citroen would gladly scrap The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, their vehicle, Vauxhall and Peugeot said that they would Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): The Government not. Therefore, there are different interpretations of the continue to ensure that small and medium-sized businesses rules. Will the Minister assure the House that cars first have access to the finance that they require. Since January registered in Northern Ireland are covered by the scheme? we have secured lending commitment agreements with 439 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 440 banks, introduced the enterprise finance guarantee—which Members have still not told me where they would find to date has received over £0.5 billion of eligible the money to pay for these programmes under a programme applications—and, recently, launched the innovation of cuts. fund as part of the Government’s strategy for ensuring the UK’s future economic success. Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): Pubs are, of course, small businesses, and evidence from pubs Mr. Swayne: The small firms loan guarantee scheme around the country shows that they in particular are and the enterprise finance guarantee scheme have produced not receiving assistance and credit from banks. Will the less than half the target amount of lending. Meanwhile, Minister agree to look into that, and meet with a firms in my constituency with good order books and delegation from the save the pub group to discuss this good prospects are still screaming for credit. What are important issue? Ministers going to do about it? Ian Lucas: Mr. Phil Liddell of the Peal O’ Bells pub in Ian Lucas: What the Government are anxious to do is Holt in my constituency has been very active in trying use public finance to help to guarantee the funds that to draw attention to the difficulties of pubs in the are available from banks. That is a very positive and locality. Before I was a Minister, I attended the hon. innovative approach. The hon. Gentleman must answer Gentleman’s event on licensing so I am very well aware this question: where would the money come from under of the difficulties in the industry. The particular area he a Tory Government? raises is not in my remit, but I will speak to my ministerial colleagues concerning this matter and they will get back Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): It has nothing to him. to do with the next Tory Government, and everything to do with this Government. They have nationalised the Topical Questions banks—billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money have been put in—but small businesses in my constituency are going bust because the banks are not lending to T1. [287073] Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) them. What are the Government going to do about it? (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. Ian Lucas: I have described the active steps that the Government have already taken. I am a constituency The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr. Pat Member of Parliament too, and I speak regularly to McFadden): Our Department is focused on creating the businesses in my constituency. These issues have been conditions for business success, promoting enterprise, raised, and businesses are well aware that the Government innovation and science and making sure people have the have taken action. However, we will act when individual skills and opportunities to succeed. To that end, this cases are raised. We will support industry and business, week we have published the life sciences strategy and, and we know that other parties would not. together with our colleagues in the Department of Energy and Climate Change, the low carbon industrial Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): I strategy. That is because we take the view that the fully recognise that my hon. Friend and other Ministers Government have an active role to play in helping are doing the best they can, but there are still significant Britain make the most of the changes we will need in difficulties out there with some of the main banks. Are how we transport ourselves, how we build and heat our my hon. Friend and his colleagues making abundantly homes, and how we produce our energy for the future. clear to Treasury Ministers and officials that small and medium-sized enterprises are, regrettably, still suffering at the hands of the major banks? Mr. Swayne: And another thing: why is it that someone who is languishing on jobseeker’s allowance has to wait Ian Lucas: We all recognise that we are experiencing six months before they can retrain? Why can they not extremely difficult economic circumstances at present. start retraining straight away—and perhaps be retrained We are working in the Department to assist small in some of the skills for the wonderful strategy the businesses, and of course we liaise closely with the Minister has just described? Treasury in discussing the steps that need to be taken to enable us to improve the service that we are giving as Mr. McFadden: The focus for those who are unemployed much as we possibly can. for a short time is to help get them back into work as Mr. Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): I suggest soon as possible. That is why it makes sense to give the that the Government have not been doing all that they extra help for retraining for those who have been out of can. Is it not the case that the French and Germans had work for that bit longer. I have to say to the hon. been facilitating credit for their companies months before Gentleman that if he thinks there should be more we got around to it? Is this not too little, too late? expenditure on helping the unemployed, perhaps he should resist his own party’s plans to cut public expenditure Ian Lucas: I am beguiled by the conversion of the now in the middle of a recession. Conservative party to adoration of what is happening across the channel. It seems that the right hon. and T6. [287080] John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) is having (Lab): The “Digital Britain” report recommends rather more influence than I thought. putting a levy of 50p on all copper lines. Is it fair to We are taking action. Great progress has been made ask particularly the people of Glasgow and my in the way in which we are delivering support for constituency where 70 per cent. do not take up business. We will continue to do so—and Conservative broadband to pay that 50p levy? I think the Minister 441 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 442 will have to agree that that is totally unfair. Would it The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual not be fairer to get broadband users to pay that extra Property (Mr. David Lammy): As I have explained levy? before, the rate on income-contingent loans is based on the retail prices index over the year period. We examined Mr. McFadden: The “Digital Britain”strategy published this closely, finding that the loan rate is still one of the a few weeks ago is a very good example of the active cheapest loan products available in the developed world. role we take in helping to shape the economic future of the country and making sure that opportunities in it are Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): At the maximised. The report said that those on low-income close of business today, I shall present a petition on the tariffs would not have to pay the levy mentioned, so it is steel industry. It has been signed by about 5,000 of my not universal regardless of income; instead, it is a constituents and others, and was assembled in a matter measure that would step in where the market would not of just eight or nine days. I welcome the announcement to make sure the opportunities presented by next generation made by the Minister for Business, Innovation and broadband are not just enjoyed by those two thirds of Skills that the Prime Minister is meeting Corus this the population or so that the market would provide for, afternoon—Lord Mandelson is, of course, coming to but are enjoyed throughout the country. the steel industry in Yorkshire tomorrow. On a very narrow point, before the Prime Minister meets Corus Mr. Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Con): Has the Minister and before Lord Mandelson comes up north tomorrow of State noticed that Royal Mail is losing business at can the Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills a rate of about 10 per cent. annually, that it faces a examine credit risk insurance? It has been put to me pension deficit that will probably be valued at £10 billion, that that is one of the issues to address. Providing such which it is unlikely to be able to fund, and that it now insurance does not cost the Government a lot of money faces strike action? The Government have suspended all and it is something that they can do. Taking such an progress on a Bill that we were supporting, and which approach would send a powerful signal that our Front- the Minister said was urgently necessary to secure the Bench team is on the steel industry’s side. future of Royal Mail. Is the Government’s policy one of benign neglect, or is he simply doing nothing? Mr. McFadden: I know that my right hon. Friend has Mr. McFadden: As the Secretary of State announced been campaigning hard for the Corus workers in his in the other place a couple of weeks ago, the market constituency. As he said, the Secretary of State is to conditions have not been conducive to getting the best visit Rotherham tomorrow. We appreciate that credit value for the taxpayer from the partial sale we have insurance has been an issue, not only in the steel industry, proposed. Where I agree with the right hon. and learned but in other sectors of the economy. That is why we put Gentleman is that that does not mean that Royal Mail a credit insurance scheme in place and recently announced does not face significant problems and challenges. It is that we would backdate the help available under it. important that the company gets on with its plans for modernisation, and that the union, which has said it is T3. [287076] Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): up for change, shows that that means something in Those businesses that survive the recession face a practice—and I have to say that continued strikes and 0.5 per cent. increase in employers’ national insurance industrial action within Royal Mail will do nothing in contributions in 2011, at an additional cost of some the end to help it on the necessary road to modernisation, £2.7 billion. Given that the subscription payments which is absolutely essential for the future of the universal we make to the EU are set to more than double to service. £6.5 billion by 2011, would it not make sense to save that money and offset the unnecessary rise in the tax on T8. [287082] Jessica Morden (Newport, East) (Lab): jobs? The consumer White Paper has just been published, so will the Minister take a look at credit reference Mr. McFadden: I see that the Conservative party is agencies, such as Equifax and Experian, to see what now free from whatever influence the mainstream centre- more can be done with this industry to make the right in the European People’s party had on it and is reports that such agencies provide to consumers more giving full rein to the instincts that would see us look accessible and easy to interpret? away from the European Union. I remind the hon. Gentleman that 3 million British jobs are dependent on The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships trade with the European Union, and I do not think that and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): Yes, and I thank his proposal would advance the interests of those people my hon. Friend for her welcome for the consumer or of the UK economy. White Paper. The Government want to ensure that all consumers have access to the right tools to help them understand credit reference files better. Of course, people Mr. Jim Devine (Livingston) (Lab): When we come can request a paper copy of their credit reference—that back in October, it will be three years since the collapse will cost them two quid, so it is not that expensive. We of the Farepak Christmas savings scheme. The directors will work with the industry to look at improving people’s who ripped off tens of thousands of decent, hard-working access to and understanding of their file, including families have never appeared in a civil court or a criminal whether it can be made available online. court. Will the Minister, through his Department, organise a meeting with concerned MPs from both sides of the T2. [287075] Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): Could House and the liquidators? the Minister explain why hard-pressed graduates in Southampton and the rest of the country have to pay Kevin Brennan: Yes, I would be happy to have that 4.8 per cent. interest on their student loans, given that meeting. The report on this was completed in May we now have a deflationary economy? 2008. It is long and detailed, and counsel has been 443 Oral Answers16 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 444 considering it and its supporting information. If any David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): proceedings are initiated as a result of the report, they The Opposition parties fought tooth and nail in overnight obviously have to remain confidential until they reach sittings to prevent one of our finest achievements—the court. national minimum wage. However, far too many of the recipients of that national minimum wage rely on gratuities T4. [287077] Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con): to top their incomes up to that level. Will my right hon. May I commend to Ministers and to the House two Friend consider tabling appropriate amendments to the excellent reports that the Select Committee on Business legislation at some stage, and can he publish some and Enterprise published recently on pubs and on post research on the numbers of people in that category? offices? If Ministers were to embrace warmly the constructive proposals in both, they would do a great Mr. McFadden: We have already published a consultation deal to safeguard the vital services on which many on the number of people in that category, and I am deprived, vulnerable and isolated communities depend. pleased to inform my hon. Friend and the House that Mr. McFadden: I am always happy to pay warm regulations to prohibit the use of tips, gratuities and tribute to the work of the Business and Enterprise service charges to make up the minimum wage were Committee, chaired so ably by the hon. Gentleman. The passed some weeks ago. That change was overdue, and I report on post offices was something that the Government have been committed to it since I came into this job. It is and the Committee worked on together. It is a good and good news for service workers throughout the country. constructive report, and I assure him that it will be considered positively. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): My heart was warmed by the glowing account by the hon. Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): I feel especially Member for City of York (Hugh Bayley) of the building well disposed to the Department today. Tomorrow I will of colleges in his constituency. May I ask a simple open a new packing plant at the Nestlé factory in York question about the college in my constituency? Frome that will provide an additional 100 jobs initially and community college is waiting for a response from the 200 in the longer term. It received support from the Learning and Skills Council about the building project Government’s enterprise finance guarantee scheme and to replace its tertiary blocks that it plans in conjunction a smaller company, IPS First, which is the co-packer. with the LSC, which is already more than matched by The new plant will reduce carbon emissions, because local authority funding. That project will fail unless the the Nestlé factory will no longer have to truck its LSC answers by 28 August. Is it asking too much for a Kit-Kats, Aeros and Polos to west Yorkshire for packing. positive response from the LSC for that modest building I went to see— programme? Mr. Speaker: Order. May we have a question, in a Kevin Brennan: I will certainly look into the individual sentence? case of Frome community college, but an announcement Hugh Bayley: In a sentence, the Secretary of State—I was made on 26 June about the future of the further went to see him about this—moved like lightning to get education capital scheme, which set out, thoroughly the money through and I would like my thanks to be and rigorously, the projects that would be going forward passed to him. in the next spending round. I undertake to look into the hon. Gentleman’s case, but we need investment to proceed Mr. McFadden: The Secretary of State is always a with these college building projects—I hope Opposition speedy mover, and I will pass my hon. Friend’s thanks parties will commit to that investment. to him. The story shows the advantages that this Labour Government are clearly having for the people of York. T7. [287081] Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): T5. [287078] Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and My question follows the excellent one from my hon. Shetland) (LD): May I encourage the Minister to Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr. Hollobone), respond to the Business and Enterprise Committee which the Minister totally failed to answer. In report not just positively, but swiftly? Having recently Wellingborough today there are 3,276 people worked with the local community in Hillswick in the unemployed, compared with 1,712 in 1997. That is an north of Shetland to obtain an outreach post office in increase of 91 per cent. I do not want that figure to go the local shop, I can confirm that the suggestions in the any higher, so will the Minister answer my hon. report would make an enormous difference not just to Friend’s question? Will he freeze our contributions to the profitability of the post office, but to the shop as the EU, and scrap the increase in the job tax? well. Mr. McFadden: The Government have every sympathy Mr. McFadden: Outreach post offices can be very for people who have lost their jobs as a result of the successful, especially for small rural communities, such recession, and we are trying to do everything that we as the many in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. In can for them. We know that there are many such people, some ways, we have already responded to the need: for in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and around the example, my colleagues at the Department for Transport country. Yes, unemployment has gone up, but I remind were able to announce a new contract with post offices him that when the right hon. and learned Member for for the renewal of driving licences. That comes on top Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) was Chancellor unemployment of the decision taken some months ago to renew the was running at 10 per cent., with 3 million people out of Post Office card account. So already the Government work. The position was a great deal more difficult than are putting more work the way of post offices. the one that we face today. 445 16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 446

Business of the House Alan Duncan: I thank the right hon. and learned Lady for giving us the business of the House. Perhaps she can tell us at what time the House will meet on 11.30 am Tuesday, as it often meets earlier than normal on the Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton) (Con): May I last day. invite the Leader of the House to give us the forthcoming First, will the Leader of the House explain why such parliamentary business? an absurd number of written ministerial statements have been published today? There are no fewer than The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet 53 on today’s Order Paper, which means that we have Harman): The business for next week will be as follows: had 90 published this week. Does she agree that we have the right to accuse her of rather taking the mickey? We MONDAY 20 JULY—Second Reading of the Child Poverty know full well that the whole process is designed to Bill, followed by, if necessary, consideration of Lords dump everything on us at the last minute before the amendments. recess and so forestall Members’ ability to hold the TUESDAY 21 JULY—If necessary, consideration of Lords Government to account. amendments, followed by motion on the summer recess One of today’s statements is from the Communities Adjournment, followed by, if necessary, consideration Secretary outlining the Government’s flawed and highly of Lords amendments. unpopular plans on eco-towns. Will the Leader of the The House will not adjourn until the Speaker has House ensure that she will make time available for a full signified Royal Assent. debate on the proposals as soon as the House returns? I The business for the week commencing 12 October can tell her and the House that a delegation from will include: Leicestershire is even now delivering a petition to Downing street with the signatures of 15,000 local people who MONDAY 12 OCTOBER—Remaining stages of the Health have registered their implacable opposition to the Bill [Lords]. development of Pennbury eco-town. We are relieved TUESDAY 13 OCTOBER—Remaining stages of the Local that the Co-op scheme to desecrate green fields will not Democracy, Economic Development and Construction be on the shortlist, but does she appreciate the depth of Bill [Lords]. anger about the proposals over the past few months? WEDNESDAY 14 OCTOBER—Opposition day [17th Allotted I note that amidst all these written statements, there Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, is not one on Equitable Life. Last week, the right hon. subject to be announced. and learned Lady once again ducked my question about whether we will have a full oral statement, before we THURSDAY 15 OCTOBER—General debate on defence rise, on how the Government intend to compensate policy. policyholders. Given that the policyholders have been FRIDAY 16 OCTOBER—Private Members’ Bills. waiting nine long years for the Government to act on The provisional business for the week commencing their plight, does she accept that it would be a total 19 October will include: insult to them if there were not a full, oral update in this Chamber? Will she confirm that that will definitely MONDAY 19 OCTOBER—Opposition day [18th Allotted happen? Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, subject to be announced. Does the right hon. and learned Lady intend to abide by the spirit of Mr. Speaker’s statement on 2 July that TUESDAY 20 OCTOBER—Second Reading of a Bill. Ministers should WEDNESDAY 21 OCTOBER—Opposition day [19th Allotted “ensure that the backlog of written questions that remain unanswered Day]. There will be a debate on a Liberal Democrat is cleared before the recess”?—[Official Report, 2 July 2009; motion, subject to be announced. Vol. 495, c. 496.] THURSDAY 22 OCTOBER—Topical debate, subject to be Does she not agree that it would be completely unacceptable announced, followed by motion to take note of the for the Government to pump out a whole raft of new outstanding reports of the Public Accounts Committee announcements before the recess without properly to which the Government has replied. Details will be responding to the scrutiny of Members of previous given in the Official Report. announcements? Will she guarantee that those questions will be answered? [The details are as follows: The 1st to the 6th, the 8th The right hon. and learned Lady will know that I to the 11th, the 13th to the 23rd and the 31st Reports of wrote to her, and all members of the House of Commons the Public Accounts Committee of Session 2008-09, and Commission, to ask whether we might introduce a new the Treasury Minutes on these reports (Cm 7568, 7622 and system during the recess of having what has been described 7636] as a “virtual statement” from a Minister. The swine flu I should also like to inform the House that the outbreak is bound to require further comment over the business in Westminster Hall for 15 October will be: summer. Might we allow the Secretary of State to make THURSDAY 15 OCTOBER—A debate on Sure Start a formal statement online and then allow the Opposition progression. to ask questions that are then given a formal response? That could be a very simple and sensible innovation It will also assist the House to confirm that the state that allows formal scrutiny without the excessive mechanism opening of Parliament will be on Wednesday 18 November. of recalling Parliament. Finally, I should like to thank all of the staff of the May we also have a debate on how the Government House for their hard work and commitment since the intend to pay for their scheme to “build Britain’s future”, start of this Session last December. as they call it? Last month, the Prime Minister published 447 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 448 his grand national plan, but unlike any other major up a framework for doing so. Information on who the announcement on Government policy, there has been policyholders are, what their policies were, when they no parallel publication of an impact assessment. Will took them out, and whether individuals made any changes the right hon. and learned Lady confirm when it will be to their policies has been forwarded to Sir John Chadwick’s published, or is it simply that the whole of the Prime actuarial advisers, Towers Perrin, which is going through Minister’s so-called future plan is completely uncosted? that information. Hon. Members, as well as everybody The Leader of the House has always been a champion else, have been asked to make their views known to of greater equality, so may I take this opportunity to Sir John by this Friday, and he will produce an interim welcome her reappointment of Sir Treasure—I mean, report in August. If we were tipping money out without Sir Trevor Phillips, although “treasure” is perhaps a a proper framework, the Opposition would rightly object better description—in his post for a second term as and ask us what we were doing. There will be a statement, chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. and there have already been oral questions on the However, this week it was briefed from her office that subject. she wants to bring more northerners on to the boards of The hon. Gentleman asked about the backlog of Government quangos and to break the monopoly of written answers. I look at the issue regularly, but I did so southern, white men. Given her wish to be an equalities particularly in response to the points raised on the role model, that puts her in a slightly difficult situation: subject by hon. Members at the last business questions. she benefited from a private education, she hails from I looked particularly at the Treasury backlog of questions the aristocracy and she is a product of the south. It is a and letters. There is an 80 per cent. standard for responding great relief, however, that at least she is a woman—and to correspondence within 15 days, and in the last 12-month a champion one at that. period that was reported on, that standard was adhered Mr. Speaker, I wish you, the right hon. and learned to. Since then, because of the economic crisis, there has Lady, all hon. Members and the staff who serve us a been a doubling of the number of questions and letters, restful and revitalising summer break. and there needs to be a commensurate response. It has taken a while for that response to be forthcoming. In defence of the Treasury, there has been a doubling of Ms Harman: I can tell the House that on Tuesday we questions and letters, but in defence of the right of the will commence our business at the normal time [HON. House to hold the Treasury to account, we want to MEMBERS: “When?”] We will not sit earlier than normal, make sure that standards of timeliness do not slip, because one item of business is the consideration of precisely because the issues are so important at this Lords amendments, and we have to give time for their time. lordships to have their deliberations before the legislation, as amended by them, comes back to this House. That is The hon. Gentleman asked about accountability during why, unlike what usually happens on the last day before the recess, and that, too, is a very important point. He the House rises, we will sit at the normal time. identified the question of swine flu; hon. Members will want to be able to hold the Department of Health to In relation to written ministerial statements, obviously account on how it is dealing with the issue. I also it would be better if they could be spread more evenly, suggest that the issue of Afghanistan will remain of but there is something about the summer recess that concern to hon. Members throughout the recess. On concentrates Departments’ minds to ensure that, if they swine flu, Cobra will meet fortnightly throughout the have material that they have to make accountable to the recess. The Secretary of State for Health hopes to House, they do it before the House rises. If they have update the House before it rises for the recess, by way of put out some ministerial statements today—rather than an oral statement. He is considering how he will keep doing it on the last day—that is some time before the hon. Members informed during the recess. That will House rises, which is important. include all hon. Members getting a weekly update on The hon. Gentleman asked about eco-towns. We figures in their constituency from the strategic health remain strongly committed to the fact that we need authority and/or primary care trust, so hon. Members more housing for people in this country and high ecological will be given the figures as a matter of routine, without standards for those new homes. We have had many their needing to ask for them. debates in the House about eco-towns. Ministers have As I say, Cobra will meet every two weeks. If there remained fully accountable to the House for the policy, are issues that need to be communicated to Members in and for the individual announcements made. I am particular areas, those concerned will make sure that disappointed that the Opposition do not welcome the they find additional ways of ensuring accountability, extra eco-homes that will be in those eco-towns. while, of course, recognising the particular interest of The hon. Gentleman asked about Equitable Life; he members of the Health Committee. The Secretary of will know that at Treasury questions earlier this week, State is considering how he can ensure that accountability there was extensive discussion about it. I would like to does not suffer during the recess, and any new technology, emphasise that the ombudsperson, in her report, looked such as telephone conferencing or the online activity at the generality of the situation, and drew conclusions that the shadow Leader of the House suggested, will be about the principles of the approach. Sir John Chadwick used. In fact, last summer, the Secretary of State for is taking the matter forward, looking at which individuals Environment, Food and Rural Affairs did exactly that have suffered from action for which there is culpability, and communicated with those hon. Members who represent and which have suffered an injustice. He will have to set areas that were flooded. up a system of paying money to individuals. There will be a debate on Afghanistan and defence There are nearly a million policyholders, many of this afternoon, there was a statement this week, the whom have lost out, and given that public money is Prime Minister answered oral questions yesterday, the about to be expended, it is important to look at setting Secretary of State for Defence answered oral questions 449 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 450

[Ms Harman] players, all saying that it is quite wrong to impose a levy on charities, community groups and sports clubs for on Monday, and there will be a debate during the week surface water drainage. That issue needs to be sorted that we return from the recess. That leaves the question out this summer, and the Government must commit to about the period over the summer, and, like the Secretary doing so. of State for Health, the Secretary of State for Defence is The Green Paper’s implicit levy may impose up to concerned that there should be specific arrangements, £200 a year on people in rural areas who depend on which he will communicate to the House, about how we domestic heating oil or liquid petroleum gas for their will ensure that accountability does not slacken when heating. Those people are most likely to pay the most to the House rises. heat their houses and least likely to be able to afford it, I thank the shadow Leader of the House for welcoming and it cannot be right that the proposed social tariff the reappointment of Trevor Phillips as chair of the includes no provision for them. Equality and Human Rights Commission. I was slightly Finally, many Members, Officers of the House and baffled by the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that I had those who work in the parliamentary estate will be said that there should be more northerners on quangos, going on their holidays shortly. Some will no doubt go not because it is not a good idea, but because I cannot abroad, and it will be recommended that they take up remember ever having said it. However, I am sure that if the European health insurance card, which provides for he says that I said it, I must have done. I remember that health service treatment in the rest of Europe. Mr. Speaker, there was lots of shouting about northerners during if you apply for that online, the search engine will direct Prime Minister’s questions yesterday. I wondered what you to two sites: ehic.org, which sounds very official, it meant, and I think that I have worked it out: the and ehic.uk.com. One is organised by a company called problem is that there are not enough northerners on the Portcreek in Gosport and the other by Imap (UK) Ltd Conservative Benches—and long may that remain. in Bolton. Each charges £9.95 for the European health insurance card application. However, if you go on the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): The NHS or Department of Health site, the service is free. Leader of the House gave a commitment that there To apply for the card, people will, in ignorance, go would be a statement on Equitable Life before the through the companies that come up first on the search summer recess. Can she confirm that that will take engine, but those companies are charging nearly £10 for place? Yes or no? a public document that is free. May we have a written What should we make of the Government’s commitment statement—I do not expect an oral one—from the to cleaning up and reforming Parliament and our Secretary of State for Health about the practice, giving democratic system when it appears that the right hon. clear guidance? I want everyone to have an enjoyable and learned Lady cannot provide one and a half hours holiday, and I do not want them to be ripped off before to debate the setting up of the Select Committee on the they go. reform of the House of Commons? The Political Parties and Elections Bill deals with essential matters concerning Ms Harman: The hon. Gentleman asked about Equitable the conduct of elections and the funding of political Life. I shall not repeat what I said in response to the parties, but there is no timetable for its return from the shadow Leader of the House, except to say that there House of Lords, and if it does not receive Royal Assent, will be a written ministerial statement about Equitable it will not be operable by the next general election. Life before the House rises. Treasury Ministers answered Mr. Speaker, you said earlier in the week that you did questions from hon. Members about the issue at some not do irony; I think that there is something deeply length during Treasury questions only this week. ironic about the fact that we cannot set up a Committee The hon. Gentleman took rather a gloomy view to organise the time of this House because the Government about the prospects of the Committee whose establishment will not let us. we want the House to support and which will operate I have the honour of representing Royal Naval air under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member station Yeovilton, where the Royal Naval helicopter for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright). It will consider squadrons and the commando helicopter force are based. opportunities for members of the public to place matters There has been a great deal of concern from all parts of on the agenda of the House and bring them forward for the House about the provision of helicopters for our debate. It will also consider whether we can make armed forces. The report by the Select Committee on progress on how we appoint the Chairs and members of Defence is being published today, and the indications Select Committees and look at the important question are that, in some respects, it will be extremely critical of of the allocation of both Government and non-Government helicopter provision. I note that we have a debate about business. defence on 15 October, but can we be absolutely sure I urge the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome that the Government will provide a full and comprehensive (Mr. Heath) to have faith and confidence that we are response to the Defence Committee’s report, answering determined that the matter should be put before the its points in detail and acting on its recommendations House before it rises. We will seek an opportunity for during the summer, so that we can be sure in turn that such a debate; having made the proposal, we would like we are not putting our young men and women in the the House to have an opportunity to put it through. We armed forces at risk? have put the matter before the House on a number of Can we avoid my having to ask, when we return from occasions. There was all-party agreement and we sought the recess, for debates about either the so-called rain tax to address the issues put forward in amendments when or the levy that was implicit in yesterday’s Green Paper? we first tabled the motion. We accepted all amendments, On the rain tax, we have a holy alliance of bishops, but that is still not good enough for some Members, scouts, test match cricketers and international rugby who want a debate. Even when their amendments are 451 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 452 accepted, that is up to Members: they are perfectly in the short period before the House rises. Whatever entitled to insist on a debate, however annoying everybody arrangements result from the Committee’s proposals, else might find it. such a problem could happen. I certainly hope to deal We will therefore find time for that debate to take with the issue before the House rises. place before the House rises, because the Committee will have work to do during the summer. I detected a Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): I thank the note of scepticism in the voice of the hon. Member for right hon. and learned Lady for assuring us that the Somerton and Frome; I do not know whether it is just Committee on the reform of the House will be debated that he needs a holiday, but he sounded a bit irascible before the summer recess and will be established. That and unlike his normal, avuncular self. I reassure him is important. May I draw her attention to one point that that we intend to get there on this issue, and we will. she made? There is a tendency for her and her counterparts The hon. Gentleman asked about the Defence on the Front Benches of the other two parties to feel Committee’s report. There will be a general debate this that if something has been agreed between them, there afternoon. As he will know, we originally scheduled the is no need for it to be debated. There are far more Back topic of climate change in advance of the Copenhagen Benchers than Front Benchers in the House, and that conference for the general debate and had planned a tendency underlines the need for a business committee shorter, topical debate on defence. However, because of to look into such issues and make sure that Back the importance of that issue, particularly given our Benchers get our fair share of input. I disagree with the troops in Afghanistan, we have made defence the topic continued intervention of my hon. Friend the Member of the full, general debate this afternoon. Obviously, for Christchurch (Mr. Chope), blocking the motion, but there can be an initial response to the Select Committee’s it is his right to make it. I hope that we will debate the report then, and there will be a further opportunity to motion before the House rises. respond to the Committee’s report not only by action during the summer recess, but in the debate when we get Ms Harman: I have acknowledged that it is the right back to the House in October. of the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) to make his intervention. We did not consult only Front The hon. Gentleman talked about water charges. The Benchers; indeed, we had extensive consultation with Deputy Leader of the House has reminded me that Back Benchers who showed an interest in the topic by there was an all-party group meeting, which many hon. tabling amendments. We have accommodated all the Members attended, including her. amendments, including those from the hon. Member for Christchurch, but there is still a desire for a debate—so Mr. Heath: And me. we will have it. I am glad that there is so much support for it, and I hope that all hon. Members will show up Ms Harman: The hon. Gentleman did too. They will and vote for the motion when it comes before the know that Ministers are working on the issue and that House. Ofwat guidance is coming next week. The hon. Gentleman also asked about unfair charging Gwyn Prosser (Dover) (Lab): This year, we celebrate for information that should be made freely and publicly the 10th anniversary of Labour’s minimum wage, but available. I shall ask the Secretary of State for Health to non-UK seafarers sailing on British ships and going to write to him about that. British ports are still exempt from the Act. Now that the new Shipping Minister is considering that loophole, Several hon. Members rose— and others, what can the Leader of the House do to help amend the Act and bring some fairness into the Mr. Speaker: Order. Twenty-seven Members are seeking system? to catch my eye; as ever, I want to include as many as possible. Members will be conscious that there is very Ms Harman: My hon. Friend makes a good point important business to follow. I therefore look to each about when what is sometimes called “red tape” is right hon. or hon. Member to ask one brief supplementary actually protection for people who could otherwise be question. I look to the Leader of the House for vulnerable to exploitation. I shall bring his comments to characteristically succinct replies. the attention of the relevant Minister.

Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent, Central) (Lab): The Mr. Chope: A journalist told me this morning that on Leader of the House has asked us to have confidence Monday the Government were going to give time for a that she will schedule the debate, which so many Members debate of one and a half hours on the setting up of the on both sides of the House want, on the Committee to new Select Committee. Will the Leader of the House be chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock confirm that it will indeed be of one and a half hour’s Chase (Dr. Wright). We do have confidence in her, of duration and on Monday? Why did she not say that in course, but it is extraordinary that she should announce her initial statement today, and why was the motion the business for next week without having announced taken off the Order Paper last Thursday, when there when that debate is to be scheduled. Does that not would have been time for such a debate if the Government emphasise the need for a business committee that can had wanted it? organise these things? Ms Harman: The motion was taken off the Order Ms Harman: Even a business committee would have Paper because we wanted to table it again, having to deal with the eventuality that I have faced: finding accepted the hon. Gentleman’s amendment. We were that there is an objection even when something appeared trying to be helpful. Whoever gave a briefing to the to have consensus, and needing to find time for a debate media about the business of the House has not done so 453 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 454

[Ms Harman] Mr. Michael Clapham (Barnsley, West and Penistone) (Lab): May I draw the attention of the Leader of the with my authority or that of anybody from my office. I House to early-day motion 1886, which stands in my take a very dim view of such briefing. I shall have a name? discussion with the hon. Gentleman after these questions [That this House considers that the Donaghy report on so that he can grass up the journalist and I can get the the construction industry, entitled One Death is Too journalist to grass up whoever it was who gave out that Many, sets out in its 28 recommendations the necessary information. Until information is announced by me at structure required to improve health and safety; and calls the Dispatch Box, it is not confirmed and is not to be on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to relied on by hon. Members. The hon. Gentleman has accept and implement the report’s recommendations as brought to my attention something that is extremely the basis for putting in place a durable health and safety annoying, and I shall get on to it. architecture for the industry to drive down numbers of fatal accidents and serious injuries.] John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): As Members of The motion draws attention to the Donaghy report Parliament, we probably all regularly visit schools in that was produced for the Secretary of State for Work our constituencies, but is my right hon. and learned and Pensions. The report is about the construction Friend aware that we will now personally need Criminal industry and contains 28 recommendations that would Records Bureau checks and certificates to do so? I have put in place a health and safety architecture to help to been informed that we cannot apply individually—our end the increasing fatalities and serious injuries in that place of work needs to sponsor and reference us. I know industry. Will the Leader of the House consider making that locally elected councillors, for example, are that report an item for a topical debate when we come automatically put through and get certificates. Will she back after the recess? and the House authorities sort this matter out for us, preferably before September? Ms Harman: It would be good to find time to debate the Donaghy report. I should like to place on record my Ms Harman: This is something about which my officials thanks to Rita Donaghy for the good work that she has and I need to have discussions with officials from the done. This is another example of where Government Department for Children, Schools and Families. We action is not red tape but provides protection to people should all agree that if people are going to be on their who might otherwise be exploited or find that their own with very young children, whether they are councillors safety, or indeed their life, is at risk. The Gangmasters or Members of Parliament, we need to ensure that that Licensing Authority has helped to protect vulnerable does not put at risk the safety of those children. I am migrant workers and others in spheres such as agriculture. afraid that in the past there have been cases where Donaghy’s suggestion that it should be extended to the people have been elected as local authority councillors construction industry would ensure not only that taxpayers and then issues have been raised as to child protection. I do not lose out through tax avoidance in that industry do not think that we should turn away from the idea but that, importantly, the safety of workers can be that we want to ensure that children are protected. This protected. It would be a good subject for a debate in the must obviously apply only where there is unsupervised autumn. access: somebody who speaks to an assembly of 600 sixth-formers will not need to go through a vetting Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) process. It will have to proceed on the basis of common (LD): Much has been said about the importance of the sense. If people are to be left alone with children at a recent allegations about the tapping of answerphone sports event, the parents need to have the reassurance of messages. I note that it is not just celebrities with huge knowing that those who are in a responsible position amounts of money or politicians like yours truly who with vulnerable children are properly vetted. I will are the victims, but our constituents who are much less ensure that my officials liaise with the appropriate DCSF able to defend themselves in public or likely to have the Minister and we get a common-sense, workable solution resources to challenge journalists who break the law. to this. Could the Leader of the House ensure that in the first week after the recess a Home Office Minister comes to Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) the House to report on the three inquiries that have now (Con): The House will know about the capital funding started—by Committees of this House, by the Director crisis in further education colleges, with 150 colleges of Public Prosecutions and by the Information being encouraged by the Learning and Skills Council to Commissioner—so that if the law is not tight enough, it devise expensive schemes. The House may not know, is tightened, and if people ought to be prosecuted, they however, that tomorrow a Select Committee report on are prosecuted? that subject is to be published. Will the Leader of the House make time for an urgent statement or debate on Ms Harman: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. that report? Members will want to know where the buck We should not just wring our hands and say, “It’s just stops. Was there insufficient scrutiny, oversight and risk one of those things. We expect powerful newspapers to management by those on the Treasury Bench as well as be able to evade the law, and we’ll just put up with it.” at the LSC? People should not think that they cannot challenge the newspapers because they are so powerful. The work Ms Harman: The buck stopped at 11.30 am when being done by the Information Commissioner, the DPP Ministers from the Department for Business, Innovation and the Select Committees is very important, and the and Skills had answered questions specifically on that House will want to see the results when we return in the point. autumn. 455 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 456

Mr. David Clelland (Tyne Bridge) (Lab): Does the met him to discuss them. In particular, we support the Leader of the House welcome, as I do, the news that recommendation to develop a sharper, clearer safety Nissan of Sunderland is to move into the mass production regime. We will now fully assess the implications of the of electric vehicles? Is she aware of the wider involvement recommendations and how we can take them forward. in this field of north-east companies, not least Sevcon in We intend both Houses to have an update in October, my constituency, which produces the control systems with a full response to the report in January next year. that make electric vehicles an attractive and practical proposition? May we have an early debate on how these Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): developments might contribute to Building Britain’s The Leader of the House knows that I strongly support Future and the fight against climate change? her Equality Bill, but I support even more the need of Members to scrutinise it—those who support it and Ms Harman: This is a very important part of our those who have concerns about it. Given the widespread manufacturing agenda. More jobs are going to be green concern about the treatment of Report stages, including jobs. The automotive industry has a strong future, the lack of time and the number of groups of amendments especially with environmentally friendly cars. I strongly not reached, and given that she said three weeks ago endorse the points that my hon. Friend has made and that she recognised that the Equality Bill needed full will look for an opportunity for us to consider the scrutiny, will she explain to the House how she proposes matter in the autumn. to take forward the discussions that she promised with Front Benchers and beyond on how we will deal with Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): May we have that Bill so that it is not added to the list of Bills not a debate on the BBC as we try to drag it kicking and properly scrutinised on Report? screaming into the 21st century, and on public sector pay? We are now told that its viewers are going to be Ms Harman: My hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor- consulted on whether its so-called top talent are worth General, who has taken the Bill through Committee, the money they get. The only way that viewers can will discuss with Members such as the hon. Gentleman really come to a judgment on that is if they are told who were on the Committee how we should handle it on exactly how much they are earning, but the BBC refuses Report. She will discuss that with me, as Leader of the to tell us. We are told that transparency may now lead House, and we will want to ensure that we make the Bill to a 40 per cent. cut in Jonathan Ross’s £6 million-a-year an exemplar of how the House should scrutinise Bills pay; how he can possibly survive on £3.5 million we will on Report, especially as the hon. Gentleman is so never know. Surely we need transparency on top talent assiduous on that point as well as being supportive of pay at the BBC. the Bill.

Ms Harman: I share the concern that there should Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): not be lavish spending at the top of the BBC, whether it Will my right hon. and learned Friend provide time for is on managers, governors or celebrities. However, I am a debate on Lord Archer’s report on the contaminated slightly concerned that while we hold the BBC to account blood and blood products disaster, as a result of which for licence payers’ money, we should not tip over into 2,000 people died and thousands more were infected BBC bashing, which has started to colour some of the with hepatitis C and HIV? There is huge concern about Opposition’s comments. that in my constituency, and we would like a debate I would also like to place it on record that I think it on it. absolutely shocking that Arlene Phillips is no longer going to be a judge on “Strictly Come Dancing”. As the Ms Harman: This has been discussed on a number of Minister for Women and Equality, I am suspicious that occasions, including in a statement to the House about there is age discrimination there, so I should like to take the increased compensation levels available and the this opportunity to say to the BBC that it is not too wider remit for people to get compensation on the basis late—we want to see Arlene Phillips in the next edition of having suffered from contaminated blood. This is of “Strictly Come Dancing”. one of those awful situations in which we need to do as much as we possibly can for people whose lives have Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire, North) (Lab): been blighted and who need to be helped to get on with My right hon. and learned Friend may be aware that the their lives, having suffered through no fault of their Stockline inquiry report is due to be published today. own. I will raise my right hon. Friend’s points with the May we therefore have a debate as soon as possible on relevant Minister. this terrible disaster, as the families of the victims who lost their lives or were seriously injured are extremely Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): Will the anxious to find out what lessons, if any, have been Leader of the House give me and the House an assurance learned from it? today that the motion on the reform of the House of Commons, which is to be debated on Monday or Ms Harman: The bereaved families do of course have Tuesday—we do not know which—would give the House our sincerest sympathy, as do the injured survivors. The and the new Committee an opportunity to ensure that Government hope that that report will provide some responsibility for Standing Orders was handed over comfort to the families seeking answers to questions from the Executive to a Committee of this House? about this terrible accident. We thank Lord Gill for the recommendations in his report and for the very thorough Ms Harman: Responsibility for Standing Orders is inquiry that he has undertaken. We have taken his for the House. The Executive do not lay down what the recommendations very seriously; my right hon. Friend Standing Orders of the House are. That is a matter for the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions recently the House to decide. 457 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 458

Sir Nicholas Winterton: You draft them; you put Ms Harman: My hon. Friend has been an assiduous them on the Order Paper. supporter of the Tamil community in his constituency and in this country more generally, and he has been Mr. Speaker: Order. May I make the point, I think for consistently concerned about what is happening to the the fourth time this week—I expect it to be heeded by Tamil community in Sri Lanka. I will bring his comments all Members—that I do not want loud, sedentary heckling to the attention of my right hon. Friends the Foreign from hon. or right hon. Members? That is not a request, Secretary and the Secretary of State for International that is a ruling, and I say to the hon. Member for Development. Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) that that is the David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): The debate on the end of the matter. Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons has to be on either Monday or Tuesday. The Leader of Ms Harman: As the hon. Gentleman will have seen the House has declined to confirm that it will be on from the resolution that defines the new Committee’s Monday, but she has also announced that the House remit, it will have quite wide powers to examine whatever will meet at 2.30 pm on Tuesday. If the motion were to it feels is necessary in the interests of the House. I hope be debated on Tuesday, it would make far more sense that he will be among the Members who vote in support for it to be the first business, with the House meeting at of setting up that Committee, so that it can get its work 11.30 am or 10.30 am. Why does she not just get it over under way in the summer and throughout September. with and announce that the debate will be on Monday, to give us all proper notice of it? Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): Did the Leader Ms Harman: Without having confirmed it 100 per of the House notice that many of our Scottish colleagues, cent., I do not want to keep hon. Members guessing. As in solidarity for which I am very grateful, voted so that I there are only two days left and one is Monday and the could attend the East of England Grand Committee in other Tuesday, there is a 50 per cent. chance of its being Bedford? When will I be able to reciprocate and vote for on either. However, I think I can encourage Members the Scottish Grand Committee to meet—maybe in West that if they want to be around to either support or vote Lothian—bearing in mind that it has not met since against the motion, Monday is probably the better day 13 November 2003? Why has it not met? Are things so for them to be here. wonderful in the kingdom of Scotland, like the Garden of Eden, that it does not need to meet? Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab): May I put to my right hon. and learned Friend Ms Harman: There are different governance what is the biggest issue at my constituency surgeries, arrangements in Scotland following devolution, but and which was the subject of my Adjournment debate a there have been representations made to me by Members couple of weeks ago and was raised by Members on representing Scottish constituencies that there needs to both sides of the Chamber earlier today? It is the banks be an opportunity for the Scottish Grand Committee to and their lending policies. Can we make it clear to them meet, and I will look for an opportunity. before the recess that much as we supported the Government’s attitude to them and the extra resources that were provided, we do not expect small businesses Richard Younger-Ross (Teignbridge) (LD): May I and young people looking for mortgages to come to tell urge the Leader of the House to ensure that we have a us that the banks are completely inflexible and irresponsible? statement on the vetting and barring scheme, including on why prominent authors are not looking to visit Ms Harman: This has been of great concern to small schools even though they would be accompanied the businesses. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and whole time they were there? If the scheme is to apply, no doubt he is listening carefully to businesses in his can we be sure that it will apply to all hon. Members, constituency. It was obviously right to recapitalise the whether they are Back Benchers, Cabinet Ministers or banks and insist on lending agreements, and it is therefore the Prime Minister, and that Members will not be able exasperating that the lending agreements do not yet to claim the £64 fee on their expenses? appear to be being fully honoured. We have tried to help businesses with cash-flow problems by allowing Ms Harman: I think hon. Members have raised a them to defer their tax payments, but it is nevertheless number of points today that will be important and important that banks do not drag their feet but get worth while for those who are drawing up the final lending again. recommendations to consider. Those recommendations need to be practical and sensible. Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Given that this has been the most dreadful year yet for this Government, the Prime Minister clearly needs a holiday, Barry Gardiner (Brent, North) (Lab): The Leader of and most of the country needs a holiday from him. May the House was extremely helpful earlier in the year in we therefore have a Government statement next week facilitating a number of debates on the conflict in Sri about which Minister will take over his responsibilities Lanka. I know that she will share the concern of many when he does go on holiday or if he is unfortunately hon. Members that the Sri Lankan Government have laid low by swine flu? Will it be her good self, the First recently asked the International Committee of the Red Secretary of State or the Lord High Chancellor? Cross to scale back its operations in the detention camps. Will she arrange for an early debate after the Ms Harman: It has been a most difficult year because recess, so that the House can examine the transparency of the economic circumstances that have faced this of those camps and the facilities being made available country, which have caused apprehension and concern to those detained there? among people who have built up their businesses over 459 Business of the House16 JULY 2009 Business of the House 460 many years, those who are coming into the world of after having a nightmare last night—I dreamed that work as they leave education, and those who are worried Lord Mandelson had been running the country. Can we that if they lose their job they will lose their home. That get it quite clear that when the Prime Minister packs his is why it has been a difficult year. That has been a major Speedos, picks up his bucket and spade and goes on challenge, which the Government have faced. We have holiday, we will know who is running the country? The been determined to take action to support people as public have the right to know: is it Harriet or Mandy? they face that challenge. The arrangements for this summer will be the same as Ms Harman: The Prime Minister will be running the they were for last summer. The Prime Minister of country. course remains in charge, but he will be ably supported Dr. John Pugh (Southport) (LD): On Tuesday this by a team of Ministers, including my good self. week, a baby died in my constituency in transit to Mr. Ian Davidson (Glasgow, South-West) (Lab/Co-op): hospital. The ambulance drove past the local district Comrade Leader of the House, will the defence debate hospital because there was no A and E department for be sufficiently wide to allow those parties that have not children in Southport. Following the resignation this already committed themselves to supporting the two week of Lord Darzi, the leading advocate of gutting aircraft carriers to do so? district general hospitals, can the Leader of the House be encouraged to ask the Secretary of State for Health Ms Harman: It certainly will. Everybody in constituencies to make a statement on the future of district general that depend on the work that will come from those hospitals and the implications for patient safety? contracts will be looking to hear the answer. Ms Harman: We want to ensure ever improving patient Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): The safety. Obviously, we convey our sympathies to the Leader of the House has already mentioned ways in family in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency who have which Government accountability to the House and suffered a bereavement. hon. Members will be maintained over the recess. Will I say to the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members she consider the question of Sri Lanka and refer it to that if they look at the figures, they will see that the Foreign Office Ministers? More than 300,000 men, women specialisation and bringing together of services have and children are crammed into camps, where they do meant that many lives that would have been lost have not have freedom of movement, there are inadequate been saved. Patient safety has been at the forefront of water and other supplies and they live in fear of what those changes at a time of massive investment—so it is will happen to them. It is important that Members who not a question of cutting back resources; far from it. have taken an interest in those issues are kept informed There has been massive investment year after year, of the initiatives that the Government are taking to continuing last year and this year. Specialisation of ensure that the end of the war becomes real peace. services, where it has happened, has also contributed to saving lives. Ms Harman: Following my discussions with the Secretary I rebut the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that Lord of State for Health and the Secretary of State for Darzi gutted services. I thank Lord Darzi for the great Defence, I think I will have a further discussion with the part that he has played in the improvements in the Secretary of State for International Development so national health service. We all owe him a great tribute. that Members who, throughout the year, have raised concerns about various humanitarian problems can be Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): There is kept informed during the summer, and so that, if new real concern about the “No Secrets” guidance on issues arise, those who are likely to be most concerned safeguarding vulnerable adults. The process seems to be are contacted and the Government make themselves neither transparent nor acceptable and is actually damaging accountable. the project’s credibility. Department of Health officials have said that they will publish responses tomorrow or Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): The motion on the early next week, yet the programme board has not sat Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons, for nine months or had the chance to review them. Will which is in the name of my right hon. and learned the Leader of the House ensure that a Health Minister Friend, says that the Committee should report to this makes an oral statement in the House before publication? House in November. That would be impossible if the May we have a debate in Government time on that Committee were not established before the recess. I hear important initiative, which appears to be stalling? clearly from my right hon. and learned Friend that she Ms Harman: I am sure that the initiative is not and the Government are committed to the House’s stalling. I will ask whether it is appropriate for the having sufficient time to make the decision before we go House to be updated in some way before it rises. If not, into recess. There is extremely strong feeling among all a letter will no doubt be sent to the hon. Gentleman. parties, and I urge her as strongly as I can to make the time available on Monday so that we do not have BILLS PRESENTED scrappy exchanges in the last couple of days. PARLIAMENT (DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION)BILL Ms Harman: This morning has been an opportunity Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) for the House to make its views clear and I welcome that. I am sure that we can reach a successful conclusion. Mr. David Drew presented a Bill to require members of both Houses of Parliament and candidates for election Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I thank the to the House of Commons to publish financial and right hon. and learned Lady for her help throughout the other information; and for connected purposes. year and praise her for the occasions she has stepped in Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on as acting Prime Minister. I woke up in a terrible sweat Friday 16 October, and to be printed (Bill 139). 461 Business of the House 16 JULY 2009 462

MEDIA OWNERS (RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT) Copenhagen Climate Change Conference Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Topical debate Mr. David Drew presented a Bill to prohibit from [Relevant documents: The Road to Copenhagen: The national media ownership persons not resident in the UK Government’s case for an ambitious international United Kingdom for tax purposes; and for connected agreement on climate change (Cm 7659) and The UK purposes. Low Carbon Transition Plan. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Sixth Report from the Environmental Audit Committee, Friday 16 October, and to be printed (Bill 140). Session 2007-08, on Reaching an international agreement on climate change, HC 355, and the Government response, COMMON LAND AND REPEAL OF INCLOSURE ACTS HC 1055, the Fourth Report from the Committee, Session Mr. Barry Sheerman, supported by David Taylor, 2008-09, on Reducing CO2 and other emissions from Hugh Bayley, Joan Walley, Derek Twigg, Kali Mountford, shipping, HC 528, and the Fifth Report from the Committee, Stephen Pound, Meg Munn, Mr. Gordon Marsden and Session 2008-09, on Reducing greenhouse gas emissions Mr. Terry Rooney, presented a Bill to reinstate rights of from deforestation, HC 30. common and to reopen common land; to repeal the Fifth Report from the International Development Inclosure Acts; and for connected purposes. Committee, Session 2008-09, on Sustainable development Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on in a changing climate, HC 177-I and -II.] Friday 16 October, and to be printed (Bill 138). 12.25 pm The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Edward Miliband): I beg to move, That this House has considered the matter of preparation for the Copenhagen climate change conference. Today’s debate is held at an appropriate time—a week after the 17 countries of the Major Economies Forum met in L’Aquila in Italy and accepted the long-held scientific consensus that we should seek to prevent dangerous climate change above 2° C, and the day after we in Britain published our road map to 2020, the low carbon transition plan, which sets out our plans for a 34 per cent. reduction in emissions in the UK by 2020 compared with 1990.

Mr. Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): We have set some ambitious targets for reducing carbon emissions—I think it is 80 per cent.—by 2050. How is that compatible with increasing the population in the same period by more than 10 million? The Home Secretary said that he was relaxed about this country’s population increasing by 10 million, but that will increase the size of our carbon footprint.

Edward Miliband: It all depends on the actions that we take. Globally, there will be a significant increase in the population in the next decades. That argues for a transition to the low-carbon path and away from the high-carbon path. We must do that, whatever the size of the population, but obviously increasing population means increasing carbon emissions and we need to take action. I am confident that we can; that is within our projections. I was saying that it was an appropriate time to hold a debate on the preparations for Copenhagen. I believe that it is a make-or-break year: President Obama in the United States is showing new leadership; China wants a deal, and the acceptance of 2° C as the yardstick by which we should judge success or failure at Copenhagen is important. However, there is a long and hard road ahead. I want to highlight in my brief remarks the five big challenges that we face between now and December.

Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Does my right hon. Friend accept that we need real leadership at local authority level? As much as Government may exhort and have the right policy framework, we need 463 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 464 Conference Conference leadership in and from local authorities. We have some and particularly on the international side, the better, so excellent ones—we all know about the Kirklees model—but I look forward to hearing other hon. Members’ speeches we also have local authorities that lag behind, so we in this debate. First, we need to show that the mitigation need a bit of a push to get them moving in the right actions by developed and developing countries are consistent direction. with the 2° benchmark. When it comes to the targets and the commitments made by developed and developing Edward Miliband: I agree. The new carbon budgets countries, the question is: are they consistent with the regime that we set out yesterday could, in time, be actions that the scientists tell us are necessary to meet extended to local authorities, which could take on their the 2° target and to contain temperature rises on the own carbon budgets. We will drive the system through planet to below 2°? In Britain we have set an emissions in that way. target for 2020 of 34 per cent. below 1990 levels. However, we stand ready to tighten and improve that target as Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent, North) (Lab): Does my part of a global deal at Copenhagen. right hon. Friend agree that one of the key indicators is The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change—the the extent to which capital funding from the Learning scientific body in charge of those issues—said in its and Skills Council can ensure that we move towards 2007 report that, for developed countries as a whole, we green training and skills and the skill sets that will be needed to aim for 25 to 40 per cent. reductions on 1990 needed throughout the economy? Will he ensure that levels by 2020. There is no doubt that that is a challenging those considerations are taken on board and that colleges objective, given the situation in America and elsewhere, like mine in Stoke-on-Trent benefit from that? but the 25 to 40 per cent. target is still an important benchmark. There may be other scientific pathways to Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend makes an important get to the 2° target, but that benchmark is—at the point about skills in the UK and elsewhere in the moment, anyway—the dominant way in which we are run-up to Copenhagen. She is certainly right that learning thinking about such issues, and it indicates that all and skills councils have an important role to play, and I countries, but particularly developed countries, need to know that she campaigns hard on those issues. show maximum ambition.

Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): My Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) right hon. Friend and I have been involved in environmental (LD): Because the Secretary of State hopes for a more issues and campaigns against climate change for a long ambitious outcome in Copenhagen, and because the time, but time and again our efforts have been dogged Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has suggested by the lack of planning permission for ambitious and that the target that we need to meet may be even bigger, innovative schemes. Are we going to crack planning can he assure us that he and his colleagues have done permission and are we going to do it fast? the necessary contingency planning for the further reductions that we will need to make, sector by sector, Edward Miliband: Yes, and it is important that we are so that, without internal barriers, we can go for, say, a reforming the Infrastructure Planning Commission, which 42 per cent. UK reduction at Copenhagen in December? not only is important domestically, but will be seen as important by our international allies in the run-up to Copenhagen. I regret that the Opposition want to abolish Edward Miliband: Yes, we think that getting to that the Infrastructure Planning Commission, but I hope higher number is feasible. Because of the plans that we that the good offices of the hon. Member for Tunbridge announced yesterday and the fact that we are overachieving Wells (Greg Clark) will persuade his colleagues in charge on the 34 per cent. target by a couple of percentage of local government issues to think again. points, to 36 per cent., we are in line to be able to move to a tightened target. Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con) rose— Developing countries also have to play a role in reducing emissions and meeting our long-term targets. Edward Miliband: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, About 75 per cent. of the increases in emissions over the but then I want to make some progress—I feel like I am next 20 years or so will come in developing countries, so at the starting line of my speech. even if richer countries cleaned up their act straight away, we would still need the involvement of developing Mr. Evans: I know that the Secretary of State wishes countries if we are to meet our objectives. to promote renewables and as for wind-powered energy, I have no problems whatever with developments out at Barry Gardiner (Brent, North) (Lab): My right hon. sea. However, I was concerned to read that the only Friend will know of the concern in developing countries major manufacturer of wind turbines in the Isle of that the resources required to meet those mitigation Wight has closed. As for renewables, could he give a targets should not come from official development assistance commitment to ensure that we will support research or Department for International Development budgets. and development and the manufacturing of solar panels, I am pleased that the Government have given a commitment batteries and wind turbines in the United Kingdom? that we would do only 10 per cent. of double counting, as it were, where there are actions that can both reduce Edward Miliband: Absolutely. That is why we made poverty and mitigate climate change, but is he confident available £120 million yesterday to support, for example, that the Opposition share that view? the offshore wind manufacturing industry. Let me come to the five challenges that we will face Edward Miliband: Obviously it is for the Opposition between now and Copenhagen. The more consensus to speak for themselves, but my hon. Friend makes an that we can achieve in the House on these questions, important point, which I will come to in a moment. We 465 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 466 Conference Conference [Edward Miliband] is not finance, but the big technological questions. From my experience of the discussions on this issue, it may need to ensure that the resources that we put into not be the most difficult one that we face in the negotiations, climate change finance are not simply taken from existing but it is the most complex. We need to respect intellectual finance for poverty reduction, although I will come to property rights, because they are an important part of that in a moment. the technology being developed, but, having been in Developing countries have an important role to play. China, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that it is sometimes Studies have suggested that by 2020 they need to show a hard to pin down exactly what is required. deviation from what we would otherwise expect them to To take carbon capture and storage as an example, do—that is, from what one might call “business as the way I look at it is like this. Rich countries have a usual” and continuing to emit at current rates—of 15 to responsibility to demonstrate new technologies such as 30 per cent. That is an important part of the challenge carbon capture and storage, which is crucial to the that we face between now and Copenhagen. problem of coal production. People understandably The second challenge—this touches on the point that campaign about new power stations in the UK, but in my hon. Friend made—is on the finance and the financial one part of China that I visited—Guangdong province—the architecture of a global deal. There is no question but plan over the next 10 years is to build 40 GW of coal that that is one of the most difficult issues that we face power, or approximately 25 new power stations. The in Copenhagen. Developed countries are hard pressed good news is that China is interested in carbon capture financially and resources will obviously be hard to come and storage and in the role that it can play in that by. At the same time, however, on the basis of historical country. Our responsibility is to help to demonstrate the responsibility for emissions, there is no question but new CCS technology and share our know-how on it as that developed countries bear responsibility for the best we can. In the coming months, as part of the Major emissions in the atmosphere—cumulatively, between Economies Forum, we will be working out how best we 1850 and 2000, about 30 per cent. of global emissions can drive that new technology through, as well as came from the United States, about 30 per cent. came transferring established technology. from the EU and 6 per cent. came from China. Per capita emissions in developed countries are still significantly Mr. Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): Does my right higher than in developing countries, and obviously the hon. Friend agree that Copenhagen will provide an development needs of developing countries are significantly opportunity for us to jettison business as usual, and higher as well. that what we need is a new environmentalism, not only That is why the Prime Minister made the speech that in the run-up to Copenhagen but at Copenhagen, in he did a couple of weeks ago, when he suggested—he which non-governmental organisations, businesses and was the first world leader to suggest this—that we Governments are all on the same page and pursuing the should have a working figure for how much money we same aims? are seeking to raise, namely $100 billion by 2020. He also said that it should come from private and public Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend has made a crucial financial sources—from the global carbon market and point. I have been very conscious of this in the discussions public sources—and that we needed new sources of that I have had about Copenhagen. We need the broadest finance, in addition to official development assistance. possible coalition in every country of the world on these We are attracted by various proposals, including from issues, involving not only civil society and Governments Norway and Mexico, and importantly—this comes back but businesses, faith groups and the whole broad spectrum to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, of people. Copenhagen will be hard enough, but the big North (Barry Gardiner) made—we should limit the challenge will be to sustain consensus on these issues ODA used to 10 per cent., so that we do not simply across time, across developed and developing countries, divert it away from poverty relief. across different Administrations in those countries and That is a very important point in commanding the across different political systems. That is the scale of the confidence of developing countries in the negotiations. challenge that we face in relation to climate change. I urge those in all parts of the House, including the The fourth area that I want briefly to touch on is the official Opposition, to think hard about that. They need for a comprehensive agreement on forestry. published a document earlier this week looking at overseas Deforestation is responsible for 18 per cent. of global development, but it was not explicit on that point, so I emissions, or about one fifth of the overall problem that hope that when the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells we face. I think I am right in saying that, in Peru, an (Greg Clark) responds he can say something about their area of forest the size of 64 football fields is being cut attitude, because it would send a bad signal if it looked down every 90 minutes as part of the process of like we were simply going to transfer money wholesale deforestation. Any global agreement must therefore from ODA to climate finance. include forestry, and the UK has put forward some concrete ideas to make that happen. A key part of this John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): Wouldthe Secretary is to find a way of incentivising people who live in the of State accept that patents are also part of the equation? forests to manage them sustainably; that has to be the If we could transfer new technology fairly cheaply, as answer. There are good examples of sustainable forest well as transferring money, that would also help developing management, but there are also difficult questions around countries. the governance of these issues.

Edward Miliband: The hon. Gentleman helps me to Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): In the light of what my segue into my third point, which is about technology. right hon. Friend has just said, it is possible that a forest For countries such as China, the key in the negotiations the size of 64 football fields could disappear in the time 467 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 468 Conference Conference it takes us to have this debate. Will he therefore look I want to end on this note of optimism. When I came again at Government policy on biomass, and, in particular, into this job, many people talked to me about the on how we can control imports? chances of success at Copenhagen, and said that President Obama would not be interested in dealing with these Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend is right to suggest issues because he would have too many other things on that we need to be cautious on biomass—and, indeed, his plate. They said that he would get to them in his on biofuels generally. We need to ensure that they do second year. What has actually happened is that, with not contribute to some of the problems that have been new US leadership, with Chinese engagement and with identified. wider developing country engagement on the issues, the chances of success at Copenhagen have significantly Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I have a increased. We face a long, hard road ahead in the next problem on the question of biofuels. I thought that I few months, and the UK Government stand committed was saving the planet by buying a biofuel car— to straining every sinew to get the kind of ambitious Wellingborough has one of the few biofuel pumps in agreement that we need to protect the planet for future the country. Are we saving the planet by buying such generations. cars, or are we destroying it? 12.46 pm Edward Miliband: To give a rather unsatisfactory answer, it depends on the type of biofuels that are being Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): It is a pleasure used. I understand that first-generation biofuels are to meet the Secretary of State across the Dispatch Box more damaging that second-generation biofuels. for the second time in two days, again on a subject on which there is a broad degree of consensus between the Several hon. Members rose— two Front Benches about what is needed in our national interest and the interests of the world. I do not want to Edward Miliband: I am conscious of that fact that I rehearse all the points that the Secretary of State has am no longer getting any extra time when I take laid out, as they are indeed points of common ground. interventions. In the light of that, I must plough on and Instead, I want to use the opportunity of this brief come to a conclusion, in order to allow more of my debate to make a couple of observations of my own on colleagues on both sides of the House to speak. some of the unfinished business relating to Copenhagen. The fifth area that I want to mention is the system of I think that we can agree that it is in our national governance that we will need in relation to Copenhagen. interest to move to a genuinely low-carbon economy, It is important that that system of governance commands for reasons of energy security and economic respect from developing and developed countries. That competitiveness, and for the sake of our environment. means developing countries having a fair voice in the Yesterday, we discussed that issue in so far as it applies system of financial decision making, and we have put domestically, but exactly the same arguments apply forward an idea for a compact involving a system in across the world. There is no distinction there. It is in which developing countries wishing to have finance will the global interest that we have an agreement at Copenhagen submit low-carbon development plans to a body that that is significant not because it is an agreement, but gives an equal voice to developed and developing countries. because it constitutes a set of commitments that mean In that way, we will give a fair voice to the developing something tangible. Yesterday, we discussed whether we countries in the discussions. could achieve that aim domestically. We need to adopt One important point for our public, and for the exactly the same sense of purpose and realism public around the world, is that we must have a robust internationally, because the poorest people of the world, system of monitoring, reporting and verification of all who have contributed least to the problem, will be hit countries’ actions and commitments. first and suffer most from the consequences of climate change. Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Will my right “The Road to Copenhagen”, the document that the hon. Friend give way? Government published recently, sets out three principles in moving towards securing a global deal, and we have Edward Miliband: I will not give way, because I must no problem endorsing them. They are ambition, wind up. I apologise to my hon. Friend. effectiveness and fairness. These are sound principles. We need a robust system of MRV—monitoring, We need ambition, in that the commitments made on reporting and verification—and good ideas have been reducing emissions must accurately reflect what the put forward on how we can manage that process and science says is necessary. We need fairness, in that the ensure that developing and developed countries are balance of commitments entered into by the developed clear about the actions that they are going to take. and developing worlds must be a fair reflection of the Let me summarise the challenge that we face and end extent to which each is responsible for the problem and on a note of optimism. We want an ambitious agreement, able to deal with it. We also need effectiveness, in that with clear mid-term and long-term targets to keep us words alone are useless without rigorous monitoring, on—at the very worst—a 2° pathway. We want the reporting and verification. I would add a fourth principle, agreement to be fair, because the poorest countries need both for Copenhagen and for our domestic action: to move from high-carbon to low-carbon growth, and urgency. we need to accept our responsibilities as developed Over the next few years, decisions will be made that countries. The agreement also needs to be comprehensive, will shape the global energy and transport industries for covering not only the actions that each country needs to decades to come. Down one path lies the kind of vision take but the actions required by international sectors that my leader and those on the Opposition Front such as aviation and shipping. Bench have been urging for some time, which we discussed 469 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 470 Conference Conference [Greg Clark] The worst kind of failure at Copenhagen, however, would be failure dressed up as success, by which I mean yesterday. Down the other path lies not business as an agreement that literally promised the earth without usual but an attempt to compensate for dwindling oil achieving the action required of every major emitting reserves by relying on unconventional sources of fossil nation, including those in the developing world. A fake fuel, most of which are unconventionally expensive and deal would eventually be exposed for what it was, but by unconventionally damaging to the environment. that point, precious time would have been lost. Of course, it is in the nature of international summitry Paul Flynn: Will the hon. Gentleman explain why his to blur the line between success and failure. We saw a party changed its view on nuclear power, seeing it now prime example at last week’s G8 summit in Italy, where as a first resort rather than a last resort? Was it to do on the face of it a great success was scored when the with the £93 billion bill to clear up old nuclear, or the signatories agreed to make cuts of 80 per cent. in fact that nuclear has never been delivered on budget or greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. However, in the on time, or the fact that the only new nuclear power small print, the agreement referred to a base year of station in the world is already three years late and “1990 or more recent years”. ¤2 billion over budget? This matters because the choice of the base year can Greg Clark: I am grateful for that intervention. My make a huge difference to the size of the carbon limits assessment is that nuclear power is clearly a low-carbon actually agreed to. For instance, between 1990 and source of energy. We discussed yesterday how we need 2007, annual emissions in the US alone increased by to diversify our sources of energy generation for energy 1,000 million tonnes—more than the total annual emissions security purposes, so unless one has an objection in of Britain and France combined. principle to nuclear as a technology—and we do not— We have already seen Japan attempt to use 2005 as its given that it contributes to energy security, and is consistent base year, and the same date was used by this Government with our climate change objectives, and if it is economically when they unveiled an aviation emission target as what I viable, I would expect to see it as part of the mix. regard as a fig leaf for their decision to build a third runway at Heathrow. Fiddling around with base years is Colin Challen (Morley and Rothwell) (Lab): I am just one way of moving the goal posts, but the only goal grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again on that really matters is the reduction required to keep the this subject. In what year would he estimate that a new rise in global temperatures below 2°C. nuclear power plant would deliver a new additional watt of so-called low-carbon energy, as opposed to Edward Miliband: On the point about aviation emissions, what comes from the replacement plants that the which is relevant to the international deal, does the hon. Government are talking about first-off? Gentleman agree with our target to get such emissions in 2050 back to current levels? Greg Clark: That point again takes us back to yesterday’s discussions. The difficulty we are in—it is one of the Greg Clark: Of course we agree that if we are going points I raised yesterday—is that we been through a to have carbon budgets, they should include all sectors, period in which public policy has not grappled with the but my point is that having different base years for predictable issues, one of which is the fact that the different contributors risks undermining the clarity that majority of our current nuclear fleet comes to the end is needed for a rigorous deal. of its planned life during the decade ahead. It is now too late to even replace the capacity provided by those Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I was happy nuclear power stations before the existing fleet reaches to support the Climate Change Bill, but what does my the end of its planned life. I think that decisions were hon. Friend say to those who point out that in recent ducked during that period, but according to the promoters, years, global temperatures have not been rising, as the such as EDF, for example, 2017 or 2018 are the earliest early computer models predicted, but have actually years by which we could expect that contribution. been falling? Is that not tempting countries to rebase the years at which they start their carbon reduction Nia Griffith: Can the hon. Gentleman tell me which targets? power stations were built between 1979 and 1997? Greg Clark: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s [Interruption.] Greg Clark: I think— Well, I was certainly intervention, because what he has mentioned is exactly in the Conservative party in 1997. On questions like the problem. If countries rebased their targets every that, I suggest that the hon. Lady asks her own Front-Bench time a different direction was indicated over a series of team for factual information; I am sure they will be a few years, we would never meet our commitments. I happy to oblige. believe that we need stability and that we need to follow Let me make some more progress. Copenhagen will the long-term consensus of the science. In this country, be seen by many as a fork in the road—and to some that means following the Climate Change Act 2008, extent it will be, because trillions of dollars are waiting which my hon. Friend supported, under which a committee to be committed one way or the other, with investors comprising scientists and other policy makers keeps the looking to the world’s leaders to set a clear direction. I issues rigorously under review. That is the right approach. therefore agreed with the Danish Prime Minister when I hope that in this regard the role of the British delegation he said last month that the meeting in Copenhagen in Copenhagen will be to unblur, as it were, the line “may be one of the most important meetings of this new between success and failure and to focus on clarity in millennium—a meeting where we cannot afford to fail”. the discussions. 471 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 472 Conference Conference Twenty years ago, Margaret Thatcher stood before Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend the Member for the Assembly of the United Nations and told the truth Brent, North (Barry Gardiner) made an important about the emerging scientific evidence on climate change. point. We should absolutely continue to tackle poverty Twenty years later, the world’s Governments will meet and it is good that on both sides of the House we are at Copenhagen and either they will agree to the necessary committed to the 0.7 per cent. share of gross domestic action or they will not—but we owe it to the people of product. It would be a real problem, however, if under the world to tell them which it is. the guise of that 0.7 per cent. figure, a large proportion Another test of whether the agreement is a success or of that money was diverted to climate change. Then a failure is implementation, about which the Secretary people would say that we were not funding poverty in of State rightly spoke. It is ultimately implementation, the way that was promised, as it was being diverted to not targets, that provides the surest test. When it comes climate change. Of course the two issues are related, but to the facts on the ground, it is impossible to blur the my hon. Friend is right to press the hon. Gentleman to distinction between success and failure. Either megawatts commit to 10 per cent. of the ODA budget. of clean energy are installed or they are not. For instance, there can be no fudging of the fact that in the decade up Greg Clark: I do not think that there is any disagreement to 2005, the share of renewable energy in the UK went between us. Additional resources for climate change are from 1 per cent. to 1.3 per cent. I hope we all agree that needed, and we should not divert money from important that is disappointing. We can recognise that for what it programmes in our aid budget. is—a wasted opportunity—only if we are clear about Taking action to show that we can implement the the difference between success and failure. commitments is an important test of our good faith if The implementation agenda is all the more important we are to argue for them around the world. If continue because Copenhagen must find a way of binding in not to fail to live up to the ambitious targets we have set only countries like ours, but developing countries, including ourselves, we are in a poor position to bring other those which are rapidly industrialising, such as China countries on board. That is why yesterday’s discussion and India. They are not only significant contributors to in the House was so important. We will continue to global emissions, but are capable of making a real press the Government for more urgent, comprehensive contribution to the development of a low-carbon economy and tangible action domestically. both domestically and globally. I am reminded of a speech delivered by John F. We are told that these developing nations will not Kennedy in 1963 on the subject of peace which in itself agree to targets. That may or may not be the case when changed the course of the cold war. Before the United it comes to the negotiations, but if it is the case, it is on States could credibly call on the Soviet Union to reform the implementation of action plans—with regard reducing its attitude to human rights and aggression around the carbon intensity, for example—that this part of the world, the President argued, American citizens needed global deal will stand or fall. It is therefore absolutely first to examine their own attitudes to peace and freedom vital that we in the developed world can bring forward in their country. Only when all American citizens lived credible implementation strategies of our own to show with full equal rights and without fear of violence in that this can be done. Unless we do so in our countries, their own country, the President said, would the United there seems little chance of guaranteeing that the same States have the moral authority to call on other countries will happen in the developing world. to reform their behaviour. So it must be for us: if we are to have the moral authority truly to lead in Copenhagen, Barry Gardiner: The hon. Gentleman will know that it must be by example as well as by exhortation. developing countries have agreed that they should perform nationally appropriate mitigation actions. As part of Several hon. Members rose— that, they look to the developed world to provide funds to enable them to do that—as well as to intellectual Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. Before property rights, which were mentioned earlier. Will the I call the next hon. Member to speak, I remind the hon. Gentleman commit, as the Government have House that Mr. Speaker has placed a 10-minute limit on committed, to ensuring that only 10 per cent. of the Back-Bench speeches, and that applies from now on. official development assistance budget is used to facilitate the developing countries’ nationally appropriate mitigating 1.1 pm actions—and no more than that, as that would be seen by those countries as good faith, whereas anything Colin Challen (Morley and Rothwell) (Lab): It is more would be seen as bad faith? pleasure to take part in this short debate on climate change. The fact that it is a short debate indicates that Greg Clark: I certainly agree with one objective at more immediate problems tend to come ahead of climate Copenhagen, which is to set up a fund for adaptation, change in our consideration—I do not intend to undermine which is in addition to the aid agreements between the importance of the debate on Afghanistan in any different countries. I think it is important that we do way. I look forward to a longer debate on climate that, but when it comes to existing action within ODA, change in the autumn. we have to recognise the effect of climate change on My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for variables that are the subject of aid at the moment. Energy and Climate Change is correct that we must be Tearfund, for example, brought to my attention a World consistent in trying to meet the targets that climate Bank figure suggesting that climate change might put change science tells us we ought to meet if we are to stay 40 per cent. of international poverty reduction at risk, within a 2° temperature increase. I would like to talk so I would not want to be in a position of being about those numbers, because policy based on scientific constrained from taking action on poverty because of analysis is quite new in politics—policy of such magnitude some other figure. based on science is extremely new. I address my comments 473 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 474 Conference Conference [Colin Challen] Colin Challen: I could not agree more with that assessment. If my right hon. Friend the Secretary of not only to Government Members but to Opposition State goes to Copenhagen and tells his colleagues—or Members, because the point would be a crucial one to tells the Americans or the Chinese before Copenhagen—that miss. he is under constant pressure in the House to do a The numbers are terribly important, and the Government better deal, that is of great value. I make no apology for are far more candid on them than they were two or sometimes sounding critical of my Government. The three years ago, which I welcome. I draw Members’ criticism should come from all sides. We are not looking attention to page 35 of the “Road to Copenhagen” for a consensus around motherhood and apple pie. I am document, which for the first time provides an honest looking for a bigger effort. assessment: In another example of the Government’s candour of “It is estimated that stabilising the concentration of greenhouse late on the issue, in response to my written question gases in the atmosphere at 450 ppm CO2 equivalent gives around about the contribution of Government policy to reductions a 50 per cent. chance of keeping temperature levels below 2°C and in CO2 emissions in this country since 1990, I received reduces the chance of increases of between 3 to 4°C. Higher the reply that the dash for gas contributed 15 per cent. concentrations would reduce the chance of staying below 2°C of that reduction, that the change between imports and significantly and increase the chances of much higher temperature rises.” exports—the fact that more manufacturing takes place in China and we import it back—accounted for about That is a major step forward from the publication of the 30 per cent. of the reduction in carbon emissions, and Stern review two and a half years ago, when the range that other factors, of course, also contributed. The of targets discussed went up to 550 parts per million, on written answer stated: the basis of which one could plan one’s policy, prepare one’s budgets and so on. Nick Stern has now reduced “The direct effect of Government policies overlaps with the estimates given above and is likely to have accounted for about his estimate of where we should be to, I think, 450 parts 15 per cent.”—[Official Report, 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 36W.] per million. Around the world, others are saying it should go much lower. Jim Hansen, for example, has Therefore, between 1990, the baseline year, and today, suggested that 350 parts per million, which is less than Government policy—from Governments of both parties, where we are today, ought to be our longer-term target. presumably—contributed about 15 per cent. to our reduction in greenhouse gases. Those numbers may seem arcane to most people outside this Chamber, and I suspect that that is an In my view, 15 per cent., which is equivalent to the inevitable consequence of a science-based policy.However, contribution from the dash for gas, is simply not enough. it is essential that we base our policies on numbers Hopefully, the budgets that have now been published, based on the science. I fear that in some cases we are and the report and statement yesterday, will indicate still not managing to do that. The Committee on Climate that we will go well beyond 15 per cent., and I hope that Change’s recommended budgets, for example, appear to we will be much more interventionist in the markets, be based on some modelling that rather ignores the and tell them what they have to do—not leave it all to impacts of coupled models, in which the impact of the magical formula called, “Not picking winners”, positive feedbacks and carbon sink failures are calculated. which so far, I think, has managed to pick quite a few The Hadley centre, which contributed evidence to the losers. fourth assessment report of the Intergovernmental Panel The idea that we would aim for higher greenhouse On Climate Change, has examined the differences between gas emissions cuts if we had a global agreement calls on coupled and uncoupled modelling, and shown that if my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, Ministers we followed the coupled model, global carbon emissions and the EU generally to make a big impact on the would have to be reduced by 80 per cent., not the 50 per Americans. I know that we all welcome President Obama’s cent. that many people are now talking about. That is a contribution to the debate, and we all welcome the radical step change in the budgets that we should consider. Waxman-Markey Bill, although its headline reduction Should anyone care to look at it, that evidence from our figure seems lower than that of the Kyoto protocol. own Hadley centre is repeated authoritatively in the However, a recent comment has caused me considerable IPCC AR4 work group 1 report, chapter 10, page 791. concern. Todd Stern, who is President Obama’s lead There is already a big change in Government, which envoy for climate change, said in June, during the Mexico is welcome, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of talks of the Major Economies Forum, State should be congratulated for shaking things up. “In our judgment” However, we always seem to be chasing our tail on the cut proposed by the European Union climate change policy, and the science seems to be “is not necessary and not feasible given where we are starting pointing south—even more so than six months ago. In from. So it is not on the cards.” March, the Copenhagen congress on science suggested that the impacts of climate change will be worse than That is an alarming position for us to find ourselves in, many people thought. particularly now that the Waxman-Markey Bill has left the House of Representatives, having been watered Mr. John Gummer (Suffolk, Coastal) (Con): Does the down quite a bit and facing a much tougher battle in the hon. Gentleman not agree that even though everyone in Senate, where the Republicans—in my view, a horrid the Chamber would honour the Secretary of State for little core group of far-right extremists when it comes to the way in which he has changed attitudes so rapidly, he this subject—will dig their heels in and oppose it every must expect, and we ought to give him, constant pressure inch of the way. on such issues? Consensus should not mean silence on It is unlikely that the United States will come up with this issue. We must press all the time if people are to a settled piece of legislation in December. It will have listen. one foot in the camp and one foot outside it, and we 475 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 476 Conference Conference need to recognise that that could have great consequences We must be clear about what we have to do. If we are for the European Union’s higher intended target. Are to make this year the most important since the Kyoto we really going to proceed with the proposal for 40 per deal in 1997, we must do several things. First, we must cent. cuts by 2020 if the Americans are promising only 4 follow the science all the time. The direction of travel per cent.—or, given the other measures in the Waxman- must be clear. I hope Ministers will say that they accept Markey Bill, possibly slightly more? that emissions must peak globally in 2015 or 2016. In I hope that we shall receive some response to the that case, we should aim for the 40 per cent. global message that we are sending on behalf of those in the target suggested by the Intergovernmental Panel on developing world, the people who have given us their Climate Change rather than a target of 20 or 30 per carbon emissions free of charge since the industrial cent., which would mean a target of more than just revolution. Of course, they may say that they did not 34 per cent. or 42 per cent. in this country. I am aware of give us their emissions, but their emissions were stolen the difficulties, however, and of the economic backdrop. from them. Those people should have an equal voice in Secondly, while the Prime Minister’s speech was welcome Copenhagen. It should not be just the major economies in setting a starting point, I think that we should build that determine the agenda; the countries in the developing on that. The United Nations is central to delivery. I world should have an equal say, because it is their suggest a leapfrog fund of the kind which I believe is atmosphere as much as ours. If we do not recognise proposed by the Mexicans, allowing the developed countries that, we will go horribly wrong, and there will be no to contribute to the kitty of the developing countries. agreement worth having in Copenhagen. That would be in addition to contributions that we have already made, and would be used for purposes of technology change. I also suggest an adaptation fund to 1.12 pm prepare people and deal with the crisis that would afflict countries such as Bangladesh—I believe that 18 per Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) cent. of the country would be under water—and the (LD): Of course I applaud the Secretary of State and Maldives, which would disappear completely. We need his colleagues for their work, but I will accept the an insurance mechanism to cover developing countries appeal from the hon. Member for Morley and Rothwell that implement risk reduction against climate-related or (Colin Challen) and the right hon. Member for Suffolk, disaster losses, and a fund to prevent deforestation, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) for me to do my job between which is one of the biggest contributors of global now and December in maintaining the constant pressure emissions, although it is not perceived to be so important on the Government to be ambitious, not just for the from here. United Kingdom but for the world. I see six opportunities. Although we are talking about Copenhagen, there are The Prime Minister proposed a $100 billion contribution. the three inter-sessional meetings—in Bonn, Bangkok We think that $160 billion will probably be needed for and Barcelona—the United Nations Secretary-General’s each year of the period between 2013 and 2017. What meeting in New York to discuss climate change, the can we do to increase the Prime Minister’s proposed Pittsburgh summit, and the meeting of the Council of figure? Conservative Front Benchers were asked whether the European Union. All those meetings provide they thought that this money should be additional to opportunities, and I hope that each of them will ratchet overseas development money. The Minister will expect up progress. me to say that the Liberal Democrats think that it should be additional. I understand the argument about I have only six minutes in which to speak, so I shall be the overlapping 10 per cent., but we have been struggling brief. I begin by flagging up two facts. I shall then ask to implement the Brandt commission’s 0.7 per cent. questions about what the Government have said so far, target for decades. If I may put it bluntly, if we do not identify places where we need to do better, and present have additional money, we will lose many of the other proposals that I hope I may be able to persuade the opportunities of which the Minister and his colleagues Government to take on board. are aware. First, let me say something about our contribution. I am also not sure how much of the $100 billion—let Most of the public still do not quite understand the us take that as the starting point—would be new and figures, the science and the urgency.The United Kingdom’s additional money. If 50 per cent. is to come from citizens represent about one in 110 people on the planet, carbon markets and $20 billion from global official but we contribute about one fiftieth of global emissions. development assistance, that leaves only $30 billion of We are the country of the industrial revolution, and we new money, which is not a very ambitious figure. Many have an historic legacy. We have a huge responsibility people—including members of the campaign groups because of that legacy, because of our responsibility in who brief Ministers, and brief me—suggest that it the European Union, and because of our responsibility should be higher. Finally, what percentage should we in the Commonwealth. If all these countries could contribute? In its briefings to us, Oxfam suggests that come together, they could play a hugely important part. our fair share of $100 billion should be about 5.4 per The Secretary of State said yesterday, or colleagues of cent., or $5.4 billion. Is that accepted? The Minister has his have said, that we share the ambition of the Swedes. heard the proposition; obviously we believe that the The Swedes now hold the EU presidency, and we need figure should be higher. to work with them and the other progressives in the EU This is not just an opportunity for us to deal with the to drag the recalcitrants along with us. environmental crisis. It is probably the best opportunity Let me make a second “setting the scene” point. The in all our lifetimes for us to deal with the global inequity rich developed countries constitute about a fifth of the that is the legacy of industrial development. It is crucial world’s population, but three quarters of the emissions for us to deal with that in Copenhagen, and I hope that are ours. we shall be able to do so. 477 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 478 Conference Conference 1.18 pm not now realise the dangers arising from the facts that Pakistan has a nuclear power possibility, that Iran Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): As this is a topical might also have one, and that many other smaller, debate, let me begin by quoting from a document that unstable countries are likely to have nuclear power and, has been published in the last few hours under the title from that, access to nuclear bombs. How on earth can a “The Road to 2010”. It contains a policy for nuclear reversal of policy come about this morning? This makes proliferation. It proposes: me feel that I should be sitting in a far corner of this “A new Nuclear Centre of Excellence in the UK to promote House, rather than here on the Labour Benches. wider access to civil nuclear power… to make a reality of the right of all countries… to the peaceful use of nuclear power.” That will cause great celebrations in Iran and many Simon Hughes: The hon. Gentleman was kind enough other parts of the world. I should have thought that, if to remind the House that my party does not share the we had learned anything, it would be that the proliferation slightly surprising cosy consensus between Labour and of nuclear power can lead inevitably and very easily to Tory Front Benchers, but may I reinforce the point he danger. There are no secrets left about nuclear processes, made that all the big mass producers of energy at and processes for making nuclear bombs. However, we present produce huge waste? The system has fantastic as a country decided this morning to spend a further waste, which causes the emissions as much as anything £20 million of taxpayers’ money on nuclear subsidy. else does. This is why the argument against renewables is so flawed. The waste from them is far less than from We already have a bill of £93 billion to clear up the any other means, and their reliability is just as good as mess of old nuclear. It was said that that would be that of all the other sectors, including nuclear. achieved without public subsidy, but within months we are paying a public subsidy. We have indemnified the Paul Flynn: I accept that entirely. I am in a party that consortium that has taken over against any accident said in 2005 that nuclear was an unattractive option. It that might take place, and that money would be paid by remains an unattractive option, and apart from the the taxpayer. The Americans who have the contract said intensive lobbying that has been applied to both main they would not take it over unless they had a guarantee parties I cannot think of anything that has changed. that the taxpayer would pay the bill for an accident that Nothing has changed, and we have a further example to could cost billions of pounds, so there is another subsidy mock the policy. In Finland, the new nuclear power there. Again, in spite of the promises from the nuclear station, and the prototype of what we will have in this industry that it would not have any subsidies, immediately country, is three years late. It was supposed to be voices have been raised to say that it cannot compete on generating electricity this year. level terms with genuine renewables. It is extraordinary that both main parties have become Colin Challen: We are told that heat waves of the bewitched by the pied piper of nuclear power. I greatly intensity of 2003 will become a regular occurrence by admire the previous Conservative spokesman. I served 2050, yet the French will not say how many of their with him on the Environmental Audit Committee. That nuclear power stations were about to be closed in 2003. Committee produced an objective and scientific report It is an official secret, but many of them would face that dismissed nuclear power as an unobtainable objective closure at precisely the time when the demand for economically—that is not taking into account other summer cooling will be at its highest. problems. It has never worked, and it never will work, on economic grounds, as we were reminded yesterday Paul Flynn: I am grateful for that contribution. I am by the spokesman for the Liberal Democrats. Every familiar with the French nuclear power stations, but nuclear power station in this country has been late; it may I move on to a French success: La Rance? It has never been built on time and it has always been generates probably the cheapest electricity on the planet, vastly over budget. and it comes from a 30-year-old tidal barrage system on Nuclear power is also unreliable in practice. It works a river. The turbines are still in pristine condition, and for only 80 per cent. of the time. People complain about they are using the immense power of the tide. wind power not being reliable, but neither is nuclear power. We are now exporting electricity from Britain to Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): France because of the French problems with their nuclear The hon. Gentleman said that that French tidal power power stations. The problems are the result of climate station has been there for at least 30 years. If it is such a change because there is not enough water in the rivers success, why have the French not replicated it elsewhere? to cool the power stations. Therefore, this source of power is dangerous and its proliferation could cost the Paul Flynn: There are many mysteries in the personality world, but we are now going to promote it to other of the French people that I do not understand. Many of countries. The paper says that every country has the them are entirely impenetrable to me, but I have raised right to have their own nuclear power, and we are this point many times in my frequent visits to Brittany. spending taxpayers’ money to promote that. This is Because the French have not done that, however, there truly, deeply mad. is no reason why we should not. As the paper said Mr. Jim Hood (Lanark and Hamilton, East) (Lab): Is yesterday, we have an immense possibility for using my hon. Friend’s argument that the people of France tidal power. The paper said that half the opportunities are living in danger because 77 per cent. of their electricity for tidal power in the whole of Europe are around our is generated from nuclear power? coasts. They are not all tidal either. There is also the flow of water between Guernsey and France; an immense Paul Flynn: That is not what I said. The point I am amount of energy is flowing there 24 hours a day. It will making is about the economic case, and I also object on carry on eternally and it is untapped. If we could utilise the grounds of proliferation. I cannot believe that we do this power with a range of barrages around our coast—or 479 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 480 Conference Conference tidal lagoons, or just simple mills—we could have surges the road to Copenhagen is paved with good inventions. of electricity that would come when the tide flows A lot of convenient facts—or factoids—have been invented around our coast at different times. We could tap that, to try to encourage us towards a destination that is too; when the surge of power comes in the early hours probably unrealistic, and which we will undoubtedly of the morning, we could use it to pump water up to the not reach. top of hills and downs and allow electricity to be generated for peak times. Colin Challen: I wonder why it would be convenient The geographical position of these islands presents for politicians to want to invent climate change. Surely us with by far the best opportunity, and we should be climate change is the biggest inconvenience to our normal taking it instead of throwing our money away at the politics that has ever been conceived of. nuclear power industry. Billions upon billions of pounds are being thrown at it—there was another £20 million Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. We finish this debate at this morning, just like that. There was also £93 billion 1.55 pm and a large number of Members, all of whom for clearing things up, and uncountable billions to build wish to speak, are still seeking to catch my eye. Could nuclear power stations. In contrast, our investment in hon. Members bear that in mind? tidal energy and other marine energy is in sums of £60 million here and £50 million there. We have a huge Mr. Lilley: Politicians, having committed themselves opportunity that we are neglecting because of the conversion to the idea of climate change, invent the reasons to of both our main parties to supporting nuclear power justify it, and there is a tendency to demonise anybody for no rational reason. who dissents from the consensus. I make a point of We should look at our priorities again, as this is the doing so, because I think it is helpful to have an alternative way to solve our global warming problems, which we all view expressed in this House. Outside the Chamber a agree it is important to do. We must look at the power very polarised debate is taking place, on blogs and of the tide. It will go on for ever. It is clean and does not elsewhere, between the alarmists—they are very well produce a legacy of poisoned fuel, and it will add represented in this Chamber, and they believe that greatly to amenity features in the places where it is almost all the global warming observed over the past operated. The future should be tidal. It certainly should century is a result of man-made greenhouse gases and not be nuclear. that the future will be even worse—and the deniers, who argue that as climate change occurred long before man 1.27 pm appeared on the planet, the current climate change and Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): It is that which we have observed cannot be down to man’s a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Newport, efforts. I entirely accept that that is a complete non West (Paul Flynn), with whom I often find myself in sequitur; the fact that man did not contribute in the strange alliance. However, I have to say today that, past does not mean that he may not be contributing much as I respect his passionate opposition to nuclear now or may not contribute in the future. power, if we add opposition to nuclear power to the My view is, uncharacteristically, moderate and seems unrealistic targets we already have, we will get from a to take the middle way. It is somewhere in between the dream world to fantasy land in terms of ever meeting two positions, because although I believe that some of the objectives the Government have enshrined in law. the heating that we have observed has been due to man’s effort, I doubt whether it all has. I was a physicist in my John Mason: Does the right hon. Gentleman accept youth, so I entirely accept that the presence of CO2 in that, although that might be true for the United Kingdom the atmosphere serves to keep us warmer than we as a whole, it is possible for Scotland to have renewable otherwise would be, that a doubling of the amount of CO in the atmosphere will, of itself, increase the surface energy without nuclear power? 2 temperature by about 1° C and that there are all sorts of Mr. Lilley: That may well be the case and that is up to feedback effects, notably the inclusion of water vapour, the Scots, but I am referring to the figures the Government which is an even more powerful greenhouse gas. However, have given out for the United Kingdom, and I am sure the models that are then used to suggest that there will the hon. Gentleman does not want to ignore the rest of be multiple effects far greater than the direct effect of an the world, let alone the rest of the UK. increase in CO2 are unreliable. I used to produce The Secretary of State called for the maximum consensus econometric models, so I know that in all these models in this House behind his policies. I have to say that all based on finding a correlation between two things, the my experience in, and observation of the history of, this only certain correlation one observes is between the House leads me to think that its greatest mistakes have prejudices of the person producing the model and the invariably been made when both Front Benches have outcomes of that model; it is no surprise that most been united, and even worse mistakes have been made models produce the result that they do. when the whole House has been united. That is the case I am happy that we should seek ways of insuring from Munich through the Child Support Agency to against the costs that might result from climate change weapons of mass destruction. It is when the House arising from increased greenhouse gases, provided the failed to exercise effectively its adversarial functions cost of insurance is not disproportionate to the benefits that we have made the greatest mistakes. A widespread of mitigating climate change. I also welcome moves to consensus invariably results in a reluctance to face up to more secure and diverse sources of energy for this inconvenient facts and difficult problems; instead, the country, but I believe that the claims that the scientific House indulges in self-congratulation on its common evidence is overwhelming and that the debate is ended good intentions. Good intentions are fine, but the road are incorrect and exaggerated, that the damages supposed to hell is paved with good intentions, and I suspect that to result from rises in the global average temperature 481 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 482 Conference Conference [Mr. Lilley] industrial revolution. We have already had about two thirds of that increase in CO2 since then. [Interruption.] are exaggerated and that the cost of mitigating that rise Well, the increase has been from 280 parts per million to in temperature is almost certainly understated. 380 parts per million, which is an increase of 100 parts I wish to say a bit about the science, and the argument per million out of a rise of 170 parts per million. The that it is settled and that there is no dissent. As far as I impact is logarithmic, so that should account for about know, only one comprehensive study has been undertaken 64 per cent., or about two thirds, of the global heating on the views of climate scientists and it was carried out that would be expected to be induced by a rise to by Professor von Storch. He received replies from 450 parts per million. Thus, a rise of 1.3 ° C ought 570 climate scientists—members of the international already to have appeared, whereas in fact only a rise of bodies of climate science across the world—to his asking 0.8° C has done so. That leaves us with a rise of about a them whether they agreed or disagreed that climate further 1.2°Ctooccur. change is mostly the result of man-made causes. More The Government are saying that a further one and a than half of those scientists—56 per cent.—said that bit degrees centigrade rise in the average temperature of they agreed, but 14 per cent. were unsure and 30 per the world would be hugely damaging and that we must cent. disagreed. So if the Government were to say that a be prepared to sacrifice billions of pounds to avoid it. I majority of scientists agree with them, that would be pointed out the other day that the average temperature correct, but to suggest that none disagrees is simply in Cornwall is more than 2° C higher than the average factually incorrect. In any case, it is absurd to suggest temperature in the north-east of England. Is it really that science is carried out by majority opinion. When dangerous for someone to move from Newcastle to Einstein was told that 100 German physicists had—probably Cornwall? Would it be dangerous if the north-east of as a result of Herr Goebbels getting them together—signed England became as warm as Cornwall? Would it be a statement saying that his theory of relativity was dangerous if Cornwall became as warm as the Loire wrong, he said that if it were wrong it would require valley? That is what a 2° C increase—let alone a 1° C only one scientist to prove that. The fact that uncertainty increase—would involve. It is not such a big deal. I remains means that the science is still unsettled. Yesterday—I accept that for poor and tropical countries a rise of that think that was when this was—the Prime Minister said order is more serious, whoever causes it, and we ought that the science is irrefutable. If a theory is irrefutable it to be prepared to help them. However, we ought not to is not scientific. Scientific theories must be capable of kid ourselves that we are really facing Armageddon if refutation. If a theory is not capable of refutation, we this happens. are dealing with metaphysics rather than science. Finally, the Secretary of State said in his statement Over the past decade, despite the predictions of the the other day that the impact of these measures on climate models and the fact that the amount of CO2 household budgets would be 6 per cent. In his White being pumped into the atmosphere has exceeded Paper, he says that the cost of renewables would put expectations, no global warming has taken place—indeed electricity budgets up by 15 per cent., on top of the a slight global cooling has occurred. I accept that one 15 per cent. increase already, and that gas prices and decade of the absence of global warming and of a slight household budgets would increase by 23 per cent. I decline is not sufficient to refute the notion that CO2 is cannot find the quantification of the measures that he having a substantial impact. However, I must ask the suggests will reduce the impact on households— Government a question: how many decades will be required before they are prepared at least to consider Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman the fact that their climate models may be somewhat has run out of time. I call Joan Walley. exaggerated? Clearly there must be other factors that they are not taking into account, which are at least masking and suppressing the global warming over the 1.40 pm past decade. Of course, those factors might have been Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent, North) (Lab): I do not operating in the opposite direction in the previous three accept that the issue is whether we should do something decades, when we did observe global heating. about global warming. We are on the way towards the The second issue is that of damaging climate change. most important international agreement at Copenhagen I believe that the Secretary of State—although it might and we should give every ounce of support to the have been the Secretary of State for Environment, Food Secretary of State, who is taking such a leadership role. and Rural Affairs—proudly told us that it was an Parliament should back all the work that he is doing historic moment when the G8 agreed to define a 2° C now and will do at the international negotiating table at rise in average global temperature as “damaging climate Copenhagen. I ask him to use the various reports that change”, that that would be caused by the amount of the Environmental Audit Committee has produced to CO in the atmosphere increasing from the current highlight the detailed areas where we need to make 2 380 parts per million to 450 parts per million and that progress quickly. we were to prevent that from happening. The idea that I was pleased that the Secretary of State referred to we have got our fingers on a global dimmer switch and deforestation, the importance of stopping the illegal we can determine the average temperature is an example logging of timber, and how the deforestation agenda of human hubris that has rarely been matched in this can be incorporated into the talks and agreements on Chamber. climate change. It is also rarely stated that when the Government talk As my hon. Friend the Member for Morley and about a 2° C increase, they are not talking about an Rothwell (Colin Challen) said, the science is really increase from now; they are talking about an increase of important. The important question on some of the that order from the early 18th century—from before the modelling that has been done is whether it is coupled or 483 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 484 Conference Conference uncoupled. The detail on that point is in some of the warm enough for the Vikings to have vineyards there, evidence that the Committee has received, and I ask my but today it is covered with ice. That contradicts the right hon. Friend to look at it urgently, so that we go to idea that global warming has been going on for ever Copenhagen with the best and most reliable science. andaday— Despite what we have just heard from the right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley), evidence John Mason: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? given to the Committee suggests that we have only a 50:50 chance of not exceeding a temperature increase of Mr. Bone: No, because I want other hon. Members to 2° C. Anything over that increase would be catastrophic. have the chance to catch Mr. Deputy Speaker’s eye. We therefore have a higher chance of exceeding 3°, Research has just been published by NASA’s Goddard which is why it is so important that we get the science space flight centre in Greenbelt, Maryland that argues right. strongly that the sun is causing global warming on a It is no good doing everything that we can at Copenhagen cyclic, 11-year pattern. It does not claim that man-made to get the right policies if we then come back and do not global warming has no effect, but the vast majority is do as we say. I commend the Government on the series caused by the sun. It also makes the point that the of statements this week, including those on renewables temperature is changing on Jupiter and Mars, and and the low-carbon economy. We especially need to clearly that cannot be due to man-made effects. The make progress towards the latter, given the state of the Secretary of State did not address that point. It seems recession and the urgent need to restore the economy to to be almost a religious belief that man is creating the best position that we can. global warming, and that nothing else is responsible. As my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, West However, I am not convinced that the science is there, (Paul Flynn) said, the nuclear issue is important. The and certainly the new research from such an august Government need to back winners and put their money body as NASA needs to be taken on board. on the renewable agenda, so that we can harness all the I endorse what my right hon. Friend the Member for wind and water power that we have in huge quantities Witney (Mr. Cameron) has done. He has shaken the all around the British Isles. It is vital that this agenda is Conservative party up and put environmental issues at mainstreamed into everything that the Treasury and the top of the party’s agenda. He has also installed as other Departments do. The Treasury should have a our spokesman my hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge scientific adviser at the heart of its policy making, to Wells (Greg Clark) who, very cleverly, has translated the influence the green book so that infrastructure expenditure ambitions and policies of my right hon. Friend into provides not stranded assets, but assets that help us to practical measures. deliver on the international agreement that I hope we will reach in Copenhagen. 1.48 pm It is also important that we stress the education Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): Like other agenda. All too often, only the initiated take part in hon. Members, I will make a short contribution to an these debates. We should be on a war footing on climate important debate in order to allow others to contribute. change and, so that everybody—including my constituents I agree with the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, and those of every hon. Member—understands what North (Joan Walley) about the importance of the youngsters they need to do in their industry or Department, we and their role in this issue. A week ago, I visited Brabins need to make information widely available. Last night, I endowed school in Chipping to see the school presented visited St. Mary’s school, which—like Burnwood school with its fifth environmental flag. The children, supported and other schools in Stoke-on-Trent—is attempting to by their teachers, parents and the community generally, become an eco-school. It is the young people who will have their own garden to grow their own food. They show us how we can turn this agenda around and come also make promises about what they will do at home to forward with solutions for our future. achieve a more sustainable future. That is the crux of Finally, I ask the Secretary of State to include the matter, because whether people agree with my right parliamentarians constructively in the run-up to hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden Copenhagen. (Mr. Lilley) that the science does not support the argument—so why do anything about it—or are totally 1.45 pm convinced that something is happening and we need to do something about it now, no one can argue with the Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I am grateful need for sustainability. to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Joan Fossil fuels will run out in the foreseeable future, Walley) for keeping her comments brief, and I shall do whatever happens, and therefore it is only common likewise to enable other hon. Members to speak. However, sense to move towards a sustainable future. That means I have to tell the hon. Lady that I am more in agreement that there must be more research into and development with my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and of renewables. Some of us went to see that lovely Harpenden (Mr. Lilley) than I am with her. electric sports car the “Lightning” in the House of First, I wish to thank my researchers Alex and Andrew Commons a few weeks ago. It can now do 198 miles for providing the background detail for my comments before it needs recharging, and I hope that it will be this afternoon. The Copenhagen climate change conference developed and manufactured in the UK. Fortunately, is an update on Kyoto, so that the world can unite and President Obama wants a lot more research and make a greener planet. However, there is much contradictory development in battery technology. That is long overdue, evidence about what is causing global warming. It is and we need to encourage more to be done in that like rolling a set of dice—the outcome is uncertain. regard in the UK as well, in liaison with a number of Some 1,000 years ago, for instance, Greenland was other countries. 485 Copenhagen Climate Change 16 JULY 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change 486 Conference Conference [Mr. Nigel Evans] ensuring that theirs are low-carbon environments. There is a lot of poverty in both countries, so they have to The hybrid vehicles now in production are far better grow: we do not want to deny them the opportunity to than they were a few years ago. In the one that I tried develop as we did in the past, but they must learn the the other day braking recharges the battery, and the car lessons of our experience when it comes to destroying also has an indicator about how environmentally friendly the planet. one’s driving is. My right hon. Friend the Member for To that end, and where we can, we must share technology Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley) asked whether it with countries such as China and India so that they can was advisable to move from the north down to Cornwall benefit from the investments that we have already made. because of the 2° difference in temperature, but the only However, as China in particular adopts renewable sources danger would arise if one were to travel in the vehicle to power the energy that it needs, we must encourage it that my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough to let some of the contracts to companies in Europe. (Mr. Bone) owns. It is a biofuel car, but it is powered by Renewable sources include wind farms, hydro technology the wrong biofuel. and other approaches, but we in Europe have the expertise We know that more research and development needs that developing countries need. We need to have an to be done in biofuels, which in the future may well be opportunity to share that knowledge with them. an answer to the depletion of fossil fuels. For instance, When it comes to nuclear power, again it is clear that there is an algae-based biofuel that is both much more we are talking about a mix. Such power generation must productive and less damaging to the environment. Taken be part of the mix, although we must ensure that it is together, those two properties are superb, but what we produced in an environmentally friendly and safe manner. do not want is the deforestation that the Secretary of We have dragged our feet for far too long on nuclear State talked about. That deforestation is done to grow power, but nothing would be a greater disaster to industry the crops to provide the fuels that people burn in their in this country than if we were forced to turn the lights vehicles, so in some cases the environment is damaged off in two or three years’ time simply because we got it more than it is aided. We therefore need to get the right wrong. balance on biofuels. Conservation is also important in respect of travel. I 1.54 pm know that Al Gore flies around the world telling the rest Mr. John Gummer (Suffolk, Coastal) (Con): First, if of us not to, but we have to recognise that many young my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and people are going to want to travel. We cannot deny Harpenden (Mr. Lilley) is right, we will do no harm them the opportunity to discover what the rest of the trying to clear up global warming because that is necessary world has to offer, but travel can be done in a more anyway to meet the needs caused by the shortage of environmentally friendly way.Again, we need to encourage resources and so on. If he is wrong, he will lead the more research and development, and investment, in country and the world into dire disaster. So we must planes—such as the mixed-fuel one that Virgin revealed ignore him—as I have had to do for the past 12 years! the other day—that use environmentally friendly fuels. Secondly, we need nuclear power because we cannot The Airbus A380—and the Boeing 787, when it leave anything aside in this battle. Thirdly, the Secretary eventually leaves the ground—will be far more of State must be pressed constantly on these issues. If environmentally friendly aircraft, but we must also ensure he is going to be believed in Copenhagen, the first thing that aeroplanes have more people on them when they that he has to do is to introduce measures at home. That take off. That will mean that there will be no phantom is why I press him yet again on hydrofluorocarbons, and take-offs just to maintain the slots at airports. We must why I demand that he does the things— make it absolutely certain that aviation is environmentally friendly. 1.55 pm I want to end with a plea. We mentioned China, and One and a half hours having elapsed since the we know that India is developing as well. As they grow, commencement of proceedings, the motion lapsed (Standing both countries must play a full part in doing their bit in Order No. 24A). 487 16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 488

Afghanistan and Pakistan that only a small number of countries bear what is a huge responsibility. Clearly, defeating terrorism benefits [Relevant documents:Fourth Report from the International all countries, so what more can he do to encourage Development Committee, Session 2007-08,on Reconstructing other countries present in Afghanistan to take more Afghanistan, HC 65-I and -II, and the Government response, responsibility? HC 509. Helicopter capability: oral and written evidence taken David Miliband: That is a good point. We have discussed by the Defence Committee on 19 May, 2 June and 7 July so-called “burden sharing” on a number of occasions in 2009 (part of HC 434).] this House. There are three aspects to the matter—the numbers of people put into Afghanistan, where they 1.55 pm are put, and how much civilian resource is devoted to complement the work that they do. We support the hon. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Gentleman’s call for burden sharing, and the increased Affairs (David Miliband): I beg to move, number of Polish, German, French and Australian That this House has considered the matter of Afghanistan and personnel deployed since we last debated this issue here Pakistan. is noteworthy and should be recorded. That is not to say The military operation in Afghanistan has now lasted that the drive for burden sharing is over, and since we for nearly eight years and has claimed more lives than last talked in this House there has of course been the the conflict in Iraq. It is important that we regularly very large increase in the US contribution. I agree with discuss the situation there, and that is why the Government the hon. Gentleman that the burden needs to be shared, have scheduled this debate today. but there are some encouraging signs. A number of the Whatever the divisions in the debate, I know that in 41 nations are doing a very large amount of the work, one regard the House is as united as the people of and we need to continue to make the case that more Wootton Bassett were on Tuesday. We are united in the should join us, on both the military and the civilian belief that each and every one of our military personnel sides. is a credit to the country, that each and every one represents a personal story of courage and bravery Sir Menzies Campbell (North-East Fife) (LD): Surely beyond the call of duty and, as we saw on Tuesday, that the risk is that, because the burden is not being shared each and every loss is a source of raw grief that should properly, a two-tier NATO might emerge, in which never be forgotten. some countries are willing to face the mud—or, in this case, the sand and the bullets—but others are not. Some Today sees the funeral Lieutenant-Colonel Rupert countries send their troops to operate under NATO Thorneloe, who was well known to a number of right command, but others send theirs subject to such caveats hon. and hon. Members in this House. I pay tribute that their effectiveness is very substantially prejudiced. today to all of our soldiers, to the diplomats and aid workers who work alongside them, to our allies and partners who also operate in such difficult and dangerous David Miliband: That is an important point. In truth, circumstances, and to the many Afghan and Pakistani as NATO has grown, there has been much greater soldiers and civilians who have lost their lives in the diversity in both the assets and the roles that different defence of their country. NATO countries bring and play. I continue to defend NATO enlargement, but obviously we must continue to The defining mission in Afghanistan is simply stated: ensure that the responsibilities of NATO membership to ensure that, with al-Qaeda having been driven out of are understood properly. Afghanistan, it cannot come back under the safe umbrella of renewed Taliban rule. Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): The Prime Minister set out this mission in this House The Secretary of State will know that we share the in December 2007 and in April 2009. It is the mission Government’s objectives for the mission in Afghanistan. agreed by all NATO countries, which made this vow at However, I want to be clear about what he said about the Bucharest summit last year: the Taliban. Clearly we cannot allow the Taliban to “Neither we nor our Afghan partners will allow extremists and become the Afghanistan Government again, but does terrorists...to regain control of Afghanistan or use it as a base for he think that we need to defeat them completely, or find terror”. a strategy to contain them so that they cannot be the The mission is also at the heart of the US strategy threat that they have been in the past? document published in February. In President Obama’s words: David Miliband: I like to think of the mission, which I “And if the Afghan government falls to the Taliban—or allows have described, then the strategy and then the resources al Qaeda to go unchallenged—that country will again be a base to address that. I shall address his question about for terrorists who want to kill as many of our people as they strategy in my following points. There is a widely-shared possibly can.” basic agreement in this House that the strategy needs to The purpose of rehearsing this unity of mission is be a military one and include governance, development twofold—first, to underline the self-interest as well as and Afghan-Pakistan co-operation. As I shall show the realism of our objectives and, secondly, to emphasise when I talk about governance, the reintegration of that this is a shared operation. The strategy is shared, so Afghans who are currently fighting with the Taliban but are the resources, and I will return to that point later. who are not ideologically committed to al-Qaeda is an important part of our policy. I absolutely assure him Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): The Foreign that I shall address that in some detail. Secretary says that this is a shared responsibility, but many people in both the UK and the US are concerned Several hon. Members rose— 489 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 490

David Miliband: I want to make some progress. This beginning to return home. The military focus is now is a relatively short debate. I shall try to allow other turning to Waziristan, including the leader of Pakistan’s Members to intervene later, but I am concerned that we Taliban Baitullah Mehsud, who has claimed responsibility do not end up with people being unable to contribute. for a series of terrorist attacks against the Pakistani state. He is close to al-Qaeda and poses a dangerous Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I threat to Pakistani and regional stability. thank the Secretary of State for making that comment. As we hold this debate today, we have for the first A huge number of hon. Members are seeking to catch time mutually reinforcing strategies on either side of the my eye, and it would be very helpful if Front-Bench Durand line. There is also co-operation between the spokesmen could take a reasonable amount of time, but international security assistance force, and Afghan and not too long. Pakistani forces across the Durand line, as I saw for myself in a joint operation centre at the Khyber Pass in David Miliband: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I April shall rattle through my speech at a faster rate. Progress in the mission that I have described has four Mr. Mike Hancock (Portsmouth, South) (LD): At key elements that deserve special mention, the first of the beginning of the Secretary of State’s speech, he which is military. The goal is clear: for the Afghans to made the point that, in his opinion, al-Qaeda was no be able to defend themselves. However, until they can, longer a threat in Afghanistan and had been beaten. we must help them, often on foot, but always in danger. Where is the evidence to support that statement, and is Offensive military action, of the kind that I shall describe al-Qaeda not part of the problem in Pakistan as well? when I detail Operation Panther’s Claw, is needed to root out the insurgents who continue to pose a major David Miliband: I said that it had been driven out of threat to the legitimate Afghan Government. Meanwhile, Afghanistan and into Pakistan. The important thing is training, mentoring and development of Afghan security that we know that Taliban rule provided an umbrella forces—2,000 people a month are currently joining the and incubator for al-Qaeda. We also know that the national army—is a core building block of a sustainable 1,600 mile—2,600 km—border is porous in many places, Afghan state. which allows the flow across that border. I think that The second key element is governance. Effective, this is an ongoing struggle, until Afghan governance legitimate Afghan governance, working with the confidence can be established on the Afghan side and the writ of of local communities, to help them to shape their own the Pakistani authorities can run on the Pakistani side. future, with consistency, not corruption, at its heart, is the best antidote to the insurgency. I shall say a word Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Has the Secretary about the elections later, but for now it is vital to be of State observed over the past eight years that every clear that effective governance requires space for all surge of troops has resulted in a surge of targets for the Afghans to have a political voice, including many of the Taliban, and a surge of deaths? Only seven British Pashtuns who currently fight alongside the Taliban for soldiers had died up to 2006, only two them in battle. protection or political power, but who actually belong Can he not see that the reason why the Taliban are inside the political system. That reintegration, or killing our soldiers is that they see us as aliens, the reconciliation, about which I talked in February, is not Ferengi, in their country, and that they want to die—in an alternative to military pressure, but its vital counterpart. many cases, it is their dearest wish—in a jihad? We have It also needs to be led by the Afghan Government and given our soldiers an impossible, suicidal task. supported by us, with the development, by Afghans, of systems of justice and dispute resolution that respond to the desire for predictable and non-corrupt justice, to David Miliband: I do not agree with that. Our soldiers which the Taliban so often—and so often brutally— represent a threat to the Taliban’s previously unhindered respond. authority in the south. The ungoverned space of the The third key element is development. If the Afghan south of Afghanistan now has, for the first time, an Government are to keep the support of the Afghan attempt to establish some kind of legitimate authority. population, they need to respond to its needs and So I am afraid that I do not share my hon. Friend’s deliver meaningful economic and social progress. In the view. The attempt to ensure that the southern part of end, the Afghans want health care, electricity, clean Afghanistan is not a base for al-Qaeda, under Taliban water, jobs and economic development, alongside fair authority, to use both to attack the rest of Afghanistan justice. In all those spheres, they need our help. The and us, is important. fourth key element is the link between Afghanistan and Let me turn to Helmand, given its strategic location, Pakistan, because the militants flow freely across the which is the most dangerous province, accounting for a 1,600 mile border between the two countries. I shall not third of all security incidents in the country and a key dwell at length on this today, but a comprehensive part of Regional Command South. The majority of approach based on security, governance and development British troops are stationed there. Two major operations, is vital in Pakistan too. In the past two months, Pakistan’s one led by the UK, with Danish support, are now under fight has entered a critical phase, as I saw for myself last way, so that some 70 per cent. of the population, in week. In May, in response to Taliban incursions into eight districts, come within Government control. Elections Swat and Buner provinces, the Pakistani military launched are possible in 10 of the 13 district centres. Operation a major offensive and has now re-established its authority Panther’s Claw involves UK troops fighting to clear the in the Swat valley, Buner, Lower Dir and Malakand, at Taliban stronghold of Babaji between the provincial the heavy price of several hundred Pakistani soldiers capital Lashka Gah and the economic centre of Gereshk, and some 2.4 million displaced people who are now where Danish troops are stationed to provide security. 491 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 492

That is a critical operation, first because the Taliban Mr. Laws: I have listened carefully to what the Secretary presence in the region is severely restricting movement of State has had to say. The Government keep repeating for the local population between those two towns, and the line that there has been a 60 per cent. increase in secondly because it will bring a further 80,000 people helicopters over the past two years. I tell him that the back under the authority of elected government. Reports people serving on the front line do not recognise that from the area are that previously ungoverned territory figure. Will he ensure that the Government make public is being successfully cleared. The insurgents are not just their assumptions in coming up with the number of taking casualties, but we are reducing their capacity to helicopters now, as compared to two years ago? If the strike at us. Recently, a significant number of improvised Government insist on continuing not to do that in a explosive devices and components were uncovered at a fully public way, will they at least release that information processing factory containing approximately 750 kg of to the Defence Committee? precursor chemicals. Our troops can now engage with the local population in previously inaccessible areas. David Miliband: I think that the hon. Gentleman These people should also be able to participate in the answered his own question at the end, when he recognised elections in August. Furthermore, work is under way to that, for obvious reasons, we do not publish detailed identify stabilisation and development projects. numbers. I am sure that the Under-Secretary of State Further south, a US-led operation seeks to take for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for North Khan Neshin, the last significant population centre in Durham, has heard that point. The hon. Gentleman southern Helmand under Taliban control. We extend rightly did not name anyone who spoke to him to say our deepest condolences to the families of 109 American that they did not recognise the increase in the number of personnel who have lost their lives this year, as well as to helicopters; I am sure that if he contacts me or my hon. the six Ukrainians killed when their helicopter was shot Friend with any of those details, they can be looked at, down in Sangin earlier this week. but that 60 per cent. increase is real, and the 84 per cent. increase in capacity is important, too. Mr. David Laws (Yeovil) (LD): Will the Foreign Secretary give way? Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): Will the Secretary David Miliband: I shall make some progress on this of State confirm whether the helicopter that is believed point, and then we will see how we are doing for time. to have been shot down earlier this week, with the loss High-quality equipment is, of course, vital for our of eight lives, was a NATO helicopter, or was directly endeavours. The Under-Secretary of State for Defence, leased, if that is the right word, by the United Kingdom? my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham I understand that it was a supply helicopter, and the (Mr. Jones), will address in his winding-up speech any insurgents may well have believed that it was a Chinook. detailed questions about equipment that arise in the debate, but the following points are important. David Miliband: I think that the hon. Lady is referring Since the start of current operations, funding for to the six Ukrainians who lost their lives when their urgent operational requirements has been used for helicopter was shot down earlier this week. I do not significant improvements to force protection. That is all want to trespass on to operational details. I think that it above and beyond the main defence budget. On my would be better if we considered what we are able to say visits to Afghanistan, that investment has been highlighted publicly about that incident, and then referred to the by troops on the ground. It includes: first, money for matter at the end of the debate. There is some information, key protective equipment, such as body armour and but it does not quite tally with what she suggested. I base protection kit; secondly, funding for 1,200 new suggest that we seriously take on board her inquiry, but vehicles, including 700 new and upgraded armoured right hon. and hon. Members will know that there are vehicles further to improve protection against explosive good reasons why we do not go into details here. devices; and, thirdly, money for helicopters. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister told the House yesterday, Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): I we have increased the number of helicopters by more quite understood the point that the Prime Minister put than 60 per cent. over the past two years, and we have to us yesterday: it takes time to convert helicopters that increased the number of flying hours by 84 per cent. have been operating in Iraq to deal with the conditions More will follow. in Afghanistan. However, what baffles me about the present situation is that it must surely have been obvious Mr. Laws: Will the Foreign Secretary give way? to the chiefs of staff and Defence Ministers some years ago, when we went into Afghanistan, that there would David Miliband: I just want to make a very important, be a great demand for helicopters; the Russians had 30 different point; the hon. Gentleman should hang on. of them shot down in their 10 years there. So why was We are part of a coalition. We share the same facilities, there not a massive increase in production of helicopters and we share helicopters. All helicopters in southern some years ago, instead of a cut in the helicopter Afghanistan are controlled by NATO’s Regional Command budget? South headquarters at Kandahar airfield. They are a resource for us, as well as for other nations. Requests are prioritised and allocated, whether the assets or the David Miliband: I think that the hon. Gentleman request comes from the UK, the US, the Netherlands, knows that there has been a significant increase in the Canada, Australia or Romania. Therefore it is normal number of helicopters being tailored for the Afghan that the UK has access to other nations’ helicopters, mission. I also return to a point that I made: NATO has just as they have access to our hospital. That is the many hundreds of helicopters available in Afghanistan—we whole point of being part of a coalition. do not go into precise numbers—but they are a shared 493 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 494

[David Miliband] just with regard to the market but in the area of governance. That is the latest information that I had. I wanted to resource for all members of the coalition. That is an check, following my experience there. If he has information important point as we discuss how equipment is used to that he wants to pass to me or to my ministerial colleagues, support our troops. of course we will accept that, but I have not had any information of the sort that he describes. Dr. Liam Fox (Woodspring) (Con): Has the Foreign A sustainable strategy requires us to build the capacity Secretary made any direct requests of the German of the Afghan security forces. A British battalion runs Government for battle-ready helicopters for Helmand? Army mentoring for the Afghan national army throughout Helmand, including in the US areas. Some 4,000 trained David Miliband: I have had regular discussions with Afghan soldiers are now based in Helmand, 450 of my opposite number, the German Foreign Minister, them fighting alongside us in Operation Panther’s Claw. about the German deployment. We have also talked to A sustainable strategy also needs follow-through on the the Germans about the helicopter fund that has been civilian side. When our forces go into villages and set up. As the hon. Gentleman will know, there is a districts in Helmand, they are followed by the Afghan significant debate in this House about the caveats that a national army and national police, and by civilian and number of countries have about where their forces or military stabilisation staff, who work with local officials assets are stationed. The answer to his question is yes, and tribal elders. We have doubled the number of civilian we do discuss with all Governments their contribution. stabilisation staff in the country in the past year. On helicopters, I would want to refer to detailed notes about the precise nature of the discussions. He will Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): Will the know that the German troop numbers have been increased Secretary of State give way? to, I think, 6,500. That has been the focus of the German debate. David Miliband: No, I will finish up now. The Helmand operation on the civilian side is run by the joint civil-military Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con) mission. It has British, American, Danish and Estonian rose— civilian and military staff working alongside each other. David Miliband: I think that this had better be the The Department for International Development and last intervention. the United States Agency for International Development have teams working closely together to create alternative Mr. Lilley: I am grateful to the Foreign Secretary. livelihoods, including for former insurgents, and to Could he explain why, if there was an adequate number reconstruct vital infrastructure. of helicopters for the needs of British troops, he is taking extraordinary measures to try to increase the Mr. Jenkin: I am most grateful to the Secretary of numbers? State for giving way. He is being admirably brief and very generous in taking interventions. May I report to David Miliband: We are taking our own measures to him that when the Defence Committee took evidence increase the number of helicopters because—[Interruption.] on the comprehensive approach last week, Lord Malloch- No, it is because it is obvious that helicopters are an Brown, a Foreign Office Minister, made it clear that important part of the battle plan. [Interruption.] No, Ministers were still “on probation”—his words—in terms we wanted to increase it by 60 per cent., and we wanted of the Government’s delivery of the comprehensive to increase capability as well. Helicopters are a useful approach? There is no Cabinet secretariat for the and important resource. I think that there is no division comprehensive approach, no Cabinet Sub-Committee, in this House about the utility and importance of helicopters and no sub-committee of the Ministerial Committee on in Afghanistan. However, the tragic truth is that the National Security, International Relations and soldiers on foot patrol in Sangin last Thursday were Development. How are the Government actually delivering doing a job that was necessary, and they could not have the comprehensive approach, when Whitehall is simply been replaced by helicopters or other vehicles. That is not geared to deliver it? important. David Miliband: There are two very clear answers to Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): The Foreign that. First, there is the Cabinet Committee structure, Secretary has been rehearsing what is going on in Helmand including Committees right up to the one that the in Operation Panther’s Claw. He will know well that Prime Minister chairs. Secondly and more importantly, that depends on our troops being in forward operating however, as I said to the hon. Gentleman in our last bases, or FOBs, which have to be reinforced, very often such debate, the biggest proof of the joining up is the by helicopter. I have just returned from Afghanistan, combined military-civilian mission in Helmand. That is and a lot of our troops were saying that they are not where the joining up is most important; where civilian getting necessary supplies because the helicopters cannot and military staff need to work closer together; and bring those supplies up to the FOBs. Is that something where the civilian and military staff need to work with that he recognises? the Afghan people. The proof of the joining up is in the David Miliband: I recognise the extensive work that area where it needs to make a difference, and in the end the hon. Gentleman has done on the issue. Before this that is not in London, but in Helmand province. debate, I checked on the southernmost part of Helmand Over the next few months, there are some critical that I have visited, Garmsir, which he will know well. A milestones. In Afghanistan, as we try to build the capacity forward operating base was established there after the and legitimacy of its Government, the immediate priority Americans cleared it out. The information that I got is the elections on 20 August. Our objective is that these back was that Garmsir continued to make progress, not should be as credible, secure and inclusive as possible, 495 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 496 not only because they will be the first Afghan-led elections We have occasional debates, as the Foreign Secretary since the 1970s, but because they will determine the said, and this one was announced on Monday after the political direction of the country for the next five years. recent casualties. However, I put it to Ministers that the Given the security and political situation in which Government would have done well to accept the proposal Afghanistan finds itself today, none of that will be easy, that we have consistently made over the past three years but we are working with the UN, the EU, the US and for regular, quarterly reports to Parliament on our the rest of the international community to give the objectives in Afghanistan, the benchmarks by which Afghan people the best chance that we can of them progress is measured and the success or otherwise in expressing their will. meeting those objectives and benchmarks. The Government That is why the British Government have agreed to speak occasionally of significant progress in Afghanistan, additional troop deployments—to help those who want but the public and Parliament see little formal basis for to vote to do so safely—alongside international and such assessments other than assertions by Ministers. Afghan election observers. All the time, we must remember There would be greater public and parliamentary that our aim is to split the insurgency. The Taliban understanding of the situation if we had that regular foot-soldiers must be convinced that the Afghan updating of our objectives, a restatement of strategy, a Government will be in charge in the years to come and reminder of the reasons for being there and a regular can provide the protection and security that they want. assessment of progress. It is not too late for the Government As the objective of our mission is our own safety, the to institute such a quarterly arrangement, which, as I ultimate test is our own safety, but there are important say, we have called for now for three years. Maintaining proxies for progress. NATO forces have trained 90,000 public support and understanding of our military and army personnel and 80,000 Afghan police, and they are political efforts in Afghanistan is an important responsibility now working closely alongside the international troops of government. and civilian staff. The number of poppy-free provinces It is vital, too, that we are clear about what we are jumped from six to 13 in 2007, and this year it rose trying to do, and the Foreign Secretary was clear about again to 18, representing more than half the provinces that in his speech. We went into Afghanistan not out of in the country. Cultivation was down by 19 per cent. last choice, but out of necessity—to deny al-Qaeda the use year. of Afghanistan as a launch pad for training and planning School attendance or basic health care are not the attacks on western targets. It was a collective national reasons why we are conducting military operations in purpose that was accepted by all parts of the House, Afghanistan, but they are down-payments to the people and the consequences of failure are so serious for the of Afghanistan, and the increases in the number of whole region and the wider world that we have to do students, from 1 million in 2001 to 6 million today, and our utmost to make it work. So, although there have in the number of people living in districts with access to been what my right hon. Friend the Leader of the basic health care, from 10 per cent. of the country to Opposition described yesterday as sometimes “lofty” more than 80 per cent. today, are the building blocks of and “vague” objectives over recent years, the Foreign legitimacy and support from the Afghan people. Secretary has moved the Government towards defining our objectives in a more tightly drawn fashion. He said The Afghan people and Government do not want the on the radio on Saturday that our objective is Taliban to come back. With our help, they can be prevented from doing so. That is in their interest and in “to ensure that Afghanistan can not again become an incubator ours, and that is what we must achieve. for terrorism and a launching pad for attacks on us.” He said something similar to that just now. In our last 2.22 pm such debate, I put it that our purpose is “to permit the people of Afghanistan to decide their own future Mr. William Hague (Richmond, Yorks) (Con): Since in a way that enhances their security and livelihoods without we last held a debate about Afghanistan, on 5 February, presenting a danger to the rest of the world.”—[Official Report, 41 British soldiers have lost their lives on operations 5 February 2009; Vol. 487, c.1044.] there, and, as the House will recall, three of those I think that that is a fair assessment of what we are recently killed were just 18-years-old. It is fitting for us trying to do. to remember today, as the Foreign Secretary did in his speech, their sacrifices and their families, and to pay tribute to their selfless courage. My hon. Friend the Paul Flynn: Osama bin Laden still has a safe haven in Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), the shadow Defence which to plan his attacks on the west, and the incubator Secretary, put it very well the other day, when he said: for terrorism has moved. Can the right hon. Gentleman think of any way in which we can secure a military “We are fortunate that in a society without conscription we have people courageous and committed enough to put their lives victory to ensure that that incubator for terrorism at risk voluntarily for the security of their country and their disappears? We have not made any progress in that area fellow citizens.” for the past eight years. As Members of Parliament, we should have the humility to recognise that the deployment of the British armed Mr. Hague: If the Afghan Government were functioning forces overseas ultimately rests on the consent and will as we wanted them to, with the widespread consent and of the British people, who make the sacrifices necessary support of Afghan people throughout the country, and, to maintain those efforts; and it is therefore vital that if the writ of the Government of Pakistan ran properly the British public understand why we are in Afghanistan through all its territory, we would be in a stronger and support our aims there. That is why the recent position with regard to the problem that the hon. Gentleman public concern about British fatalities, and the questions raises. However, there is a fundamental disagreement of resourcing, should be of serious concern to all of us about the issue, and I think that he has always been on and, particularly, to Ministers. the other side from the majority in this House. We 497 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 498

[Mr. Hague] clearly a strategy that includes sufficient attention to building Afghan capabilities, so that people in Britain should respect that view, but, for those of us who and other NATO countries know that their troops will believe that it was necessary to go into Afghanistan, not be in Afghanistan for ever. I hope that that strategy most of us believe also that it is still essential to make will be agreed by all the principal allies now engaged in the mission work. Afghanistan. I want to press Ministers on three aspects of the John Reid (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab) rose— Afghan campaign, and I shall try to do so briefly. They are troop numbers, helicopter capability and the follow-up Mr. Hague: I give way to the right hon. Gentleman, to Operation Panther’s Claw. It follows logically from the former Defence Secretary. having the right strategy that we should be confident that we have the right number of troops in Afghanistan John Reid: Does not my hon. Friend the Member for to meet our military objectives and that those troops are Newport, West (Paul Flynn) illustrate how he properly resourced. An extremely damaging perception misunderstands the nature of the conflict? There will has crept in over recent years. Ministers’ public assurances not be a victory parade on a given day, in a given place, that our forces in Afghanistan will be given whatever for a given, defined objective of territory. But, as long they need are not upheld in reality. In the House this as we are denying al-Qaeda the capacity and space to week, the Prime Minister said: attack us in the west, and denying the Taliban the right “I repeat that I have been reassured by commanders on the to impose their will on the people of Afghanistan by ground and at the top of the armed services that we have the terror, we are winning. manpower that we need for current operations.”—[Official Report, 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 29.] Mr. Hague: That is an accurate reflection of our But on a visit to Afghanistan this week, the Chief of the objectives, but the hon. Member for Newport, West General Staff said that the Army needed more “boots (Paul Flynn) was also right to point out that we have on the ground” to secure areas and win the confidence not achieved them yet. I agree with the hon. Gentleman of the Afghan people. That echoes his reported remarks on that, so the issue before us is how we go on to achieve in March that 2,000 extra troops were needed in them. Afghanistan and that elements of 12 Mechanised Brigade My right hon. Friend the Leader— had been earmarked for Afghanistan. In contrast, the Prime Minister announced on 29 April a temporary Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab) increase of 700 in UK forces. In the debate in February, rose— we asked Ministers to bear in mind the overstretch of the armed forces when evaluating any request for additional Mr. Hague: I am trying to make the progress that you troops—not that we were aware of any of the military called for, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I shall give way to advice that was then being given. That overstretch the hon. Lady. remains a serious factor. It has been suggested in the press that the Defence Ms Stuart: Is it not also useful to remind ourselves Secretary’s predecessor supported the deployment of that the objectives are joint objectives? The operation is 2,000 extra troops and that the United States was an article 5 action, and a NATO operation. expecting the United Kingdom to deploy them. Indeed, it is said that of four options presented to Ministers, the Mr. Hague: That is an important point—it is indeed a deployment of 2,000 was clearly preferred among military NATO operation. As has been shown in this debate, commanders—something that the Government have many of us would like some other NATO members to never confirmed in public and of which the House has make a bigger military contribution; all parties in the never been informed. However, the Prime Minister and House have called for that for years. The hon. Lady is Chancellor opted instead for an increase of 700, and for right about that. a tightly limited period. I want to finish the point about proper assessment When the Defence Secretary winds up the debate and the benchmarking of progress. In his statement in today, I hope that he will feel able to tell the House April, the Prime Minister said that in September, after exactly what happened—what options were put in front the Afghan elections, there would be a review of the of the Prime Minister and what criteria were used to appropriate troop levels and the United Kingdom effort reject the military advice to send 2,000 additional troops in Afghanistan, and I hope that there will be such an to Afghanistan. Ministers might have had valid reasons assessment in the round. One area on which it should for rejecting the request. They might have decided to focus is whether the additional powers given to the reject it because of the overstretch of the forces, because United Nations special representative for Afghanistan they thought that the military case had not been properly in March last year have resulted in improved civil-military argued or because they did not want to accede to the co-ordination on the ground; such co-ordination will be request without other NATO countries increasing their essential as Operation Panther’s Claw makes progress. forces. One can imagine reasons why they might make As things stand, Parliament has few means of monitoring the decision, but it is important for them to explain progress on that essential area. To cite another example, those reasons frankly to the country, so that we can it also has few means of monitoring the number of evaluate the policies of the Government on this matter. successful reconstruction projects completed in areas of Ministers should explain the reasons for their decision. UK responsibility. If there is to be a review in September, In earlier debates, I have made the point that there I hope that it will restate for the nation clear, tightly should be a unity of command in a military sense for drawn, realistic objectives and restate and set out more NATO forces in Afghanistan, but there should also be a 499 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 500 clear unity of command within the Government in would be making fewer strategic and tactical mistakes if Britain, so that everyone can be clear about which there were a single Minister with full-time responsibility Minister is primarily responsible for our strategy in for the war in Afghanistan. Afghanistan. General Dannatt said this week: “We’ve got to think through the way that we operate, the Mr. Hague: As my hon. Friend will have gathered, I resources we’ve got, the numbers we’ve got…to make sure that we’re giving ourselves the…best chance of succeeding”. have a great deal of sympathy with that point. A situation such as this requires the regular sharing of all assessments, That suggests that these things have not been thought thoughts and knowledge by the senior Ministers involved—I through so far. did not know that that happened only once a month; if The House and the country need to know who in the that is true, it should be far more often—and a particular Government is in charge of the war on a day-to-day Minister who is responsible for the day-to-day concerns basis and who makes sure all the time that the issues of this campaign. raised by General Dannatt are thought through. If no Having covered troop numbers and ministerial direction, Minister is in charge of Government strategy in the I want to ask Ministers about what has become the round on a day-to-day basis, should that situation not vexed public issue of helicopter numbers. Ministers be put right by the Prime Minister? have said repeatedly that that issue has been addressed, but it is hard to dispel the impression that that is not the Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex) (Con): May I case, particularly when only yesterday the Chief of the read to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister’s reply General Staff had to borrow a US helicopter to visit to a parliamentary question in which I asked him who is troops in Afghanistan. We recognise, of course, that up responsible for determining the UK’s strategy in to 14 Merlin helicopters should be in service by the Afghanistan? He said: end of the year and that eight additional Chinook “I accept responsibility for UK strategy in Afghanistan. I refer helicopters that are undergoing conversions should be the hon. Member to the statement I made to the House on available next year—although it is extraordinary that 29 April”.—[Official Report, 4 June 2009; Vol. 493, c. 639W.] those Chinooks were delivered eight years ago and have not been in service in all that time. However, even if the Mr. Hague: That illustrates the point, in a way. Clearly, numbers will be increased by the end of the year, that the Prime Minister is not going to spend his entire day, does not excuse the fact that now, while a major offensive on a day-to-day basis, consumed by these matters, but operation is under way, not enough has already been there should be a Minister in the Government who does done. spend his or her time in that way. Of course this requires In the Defence Committee report published today, its Ministers to work together, but it also requires a clear Chairman, my right hon. Friend the Member for North- sense of ownership of the strategy and the problem, East Hampshire (Mr. Arbuthnot), says: and that is not evident at the moment. “It seems to us that operational commanders in the field today are unable to undertake potentially valuable operations because Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): Everyone of the lack of helicopters for transportation around the theatre of in this House, from whichever party, despises the Taliban operations.” and everything they stand for. However, is the right Just as worryingly, the summary of the report states: hon. Gentleman really telling us, and the public, that if enough troops and resources were available the Taliban “Helicopter capability is being seriously undermined by the would be decisively defeated, perhaps over the next shortage of helicopters…capable of being deployed in support of operations overseas. We believe that the size of the fleet is an eight years, and never surface again? Is there not a issue, and are convinced that the lack of helicopters is having danger of misleading the public? adverse consequences for operations today and, in the longer term, will severely impede the ability of the UK Armed Forces to Mr. Hague: I do not think it is impossible for us to deploy.” succeed. If the hon. Gentleman is asking whether I That is an extremely concerning finding by an all-party think it is possible that we could succeed on the basis of Select Committee in a unanimous report, and it merits the objectives that I have been talking about and that a considered response from the Defence Secretary. the Foreign Secretary clearly shares, on behalf of the Government, I do think that. I do not write off the possibility of success. However, it requires not only the Paul Flynn rose— necessary resources but one or two other matters that I want to deal with briefly in the remainder of my remarks. Mr. Hague: I will not give away to the hon. Gentleman again, if he will forgive me, because other Members Mr. Jenkin rose— wish to speak. It is not as though this problem had not been noticed Mr. Hague: I will give way one more time and then for a long time. My hon. Friend the Member for try to finish. Woodspring, from within days of becoming shadow Secretary of State for Defence in December 2005, has been Mr. Jenkin: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. In going on and on about the problem. He said on evidence given to the Defence Committee last week, we 15 December that year that the “most pressing were told that the Secretaries of State of the three key requirements” were to do with Departments currently represented on the Treasury Bench “shortfalls in the helicopter lift capability that is essential to our meet once a month. They have no Cabinet secretariat, activity in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.”—[Official Report, and there is no formal Cabinet sub-committee. We 15 December 2005; Vol. 440, c. 1467.] 501 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 502

[Mr. Hague] into an enduring shift in the political and security situation in Helmand province, and the Department for In October 2007, he told the House: International Development and the Foreign Office should “At a time when our troops are facing a shortage of lift be working together intensively—hopefully they are—and capacity in both Iraq and Afghanistan, that decision was astonishingly working with our NATO allies to achieve that. complacent”.—[Official Report, 9 October 2007; Vol. 464, c. 208.] I hope that the Defence Secretary will also clarify He was referring to the decision to reduce the helicopter where our policy on dealing with opium production in budget by £1.4 billion. He has been warning about the Helmand now stands. This country has spent huge matter for many years, and it is not as though it had sums of money, hundreds of millions of pounds, on suddenly become evident that it is a problem. The trying to eradicate that production, but the US envoy Government’s performance on this matter really has Richard Holbrooke said at the G8 meeting on Afghanistan: not been satisfactory, and it is no wonder that there is “Eradication is a waste of money…It might destroy some widespread criticism across the media and across the acreage, but it didn’t reduce the amount of money the Taliban got country of what they have done with regard to helicopters. by one dollar.” People deserve a better explanation, and I hope that In the light of that, where does policy now stand? There they will get it at the end of the debate. are British and American forces at work in Helmand, The third issue on which I wish to press Ministers is yet the policies of the British and American Governments the follow-up to Operation Panther’s Claw. We have on poppy production eradication seem entirely different. become familiar with a cycle in Afghanistan that is at Surely they need to be brought into line if an effective the root of many of our difficulties. Territory is won by policy is to be pursued. valiant armed forces after fierce fighting and the Taliban I hope that the Minister can also tell us about progress are driven out, but that is not followed by a swift wave on building up the Afghan army. The Prime Minister of co-ordinated development, delivery of services and has set out the objective of building it up to 134,000 by embedding of alternative livelihoods. That is not only late 2011. That must be the right thing to do. The speed because the international aid agencies are unable to and scale are crucial—they, along with a non-corrupt work effectively in insecure environments but because and sorted-out police force, will ultimately allow the overall reconstruction effort in Afghanistan has Afghanistan to take care of itself. been mired in duplication and confusion. I want to make one point about Pakistan. Another General McChrystal, the commander of US and lesson of the past is that insurgent groups melt across NATO forces in Afghanistan, recently said that the the border to regroup in Pakistan when they are hard strategy was pressed in Afghanistan. A significant difference is that “to try to protect the people by getting amongst the people: what the Pakistani army is engaged in intensive operations we call shape, clear, hold, and build. But the idea is that after we on its side of the border. We look to Ministers to clear an area from insurgents, we’ll hold it with security forces—Afghan confirm that co-ordination is taking place with the and American—and then we’ll start development projects. That’s Pakistani authorities—I think, from the Foreign Secretary’s the ‘build.’” speech, that that is happening—to ensure that the spillover I hope that Ministers will explain at the end of the effects of our operations in Helmand are anticipated debate whether they are confident that while UK and and headed off, and insurgent groups are thus denied US forces are clearing territory, the succeeding two the breathing space that perpetuated the cycle of conflict elements of the strategy are this time definitely in place. in Afghanistan in the past. They are absolutely fundamental to its success. Our Conservative Members want the clear pursuit of tightly armed forces are giving their all, and in many cases giving defined objectives in Afghanistan. We want the Government their lives, and they will be doing so in vain unless those to explain their strategy and their achievement—or two requirements follow on from their operations. non-achievement—of objectives regularly to the House The Prime Minister said on Monday that as British and the country. We want the Afghan strategy to be forces continue the operation: reviewed in the round after the elections and co-ordinated with that of the United States. We want unrelenting “Behind them will come Afghan forces, whose numbers I want to see raised very substantially over the next few weeks.”—[Official attention to be paid to what the nation—and many hon. Report, 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 28.] Members—believe are deficiencies in the number of helicopters provided for our troops. If “clear, hold and He is quite right to want to see them raised, but that build” is the approach, we want to know that, in current implies that there are nowhere near enough of them at operations, in which so many of our soldiers are making the moment. It seems urgent that agreement be reached every effort, the Government are confident that we can with the Afghan Government about that element of the hold and build as well as clear. That is the road to strategy, to ensure that the “hold” part follows the eventual success. “clear”, and that territory is held. I hope that the Defence Secretary will tell the House what indications Several hon. Members rose— are now emerging from the Afghan Government about their response to the Prime Minister’s representations. Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. I remind Is it a difficulty that the Afghan army is usually sent on hon. Members that Mr. Speaker has imposed an eight- three-year deployments, and is there a case for more minute limit on Back-Bench contributions. rapid turnover of some of its personnel on deployments into Helmand so that the numbers can be increased? 2.47 pm Will the Defence Secretary also provide assurances Mr. Jim Hood (Lanark and Hamilton, East) (Lab): I that detailed plans are in place for the “build” phase was in the States last week with the NATO Science and after Operation Panther’s Claw? There should be actual Technology Committee, visiting the Harvard JFK school plans in place to ensure that any military gain is translated of government in Boston and discussing topics that 503 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 504 dealt with the priorities of President Obama’s soldiers on the ground are telling the politicians that Administration and developments in Iran, Pakistan they need 2,000 more troops, I would certainly support and Afghanistan. We also examined scientific advances, that request. Unlike the retired generals, I much prefer such as soldier nanotechnologies and cyberterrorism, the views of the soldiers on the ground, and I would and talked to experts in non-proliferation issues. support them if they needed those troops. During that visit, we heard about the special operation I want to finish my brief contribution by putting a that was taking place in central Helmand and the south marker down about troop protection and care for our of Helmand—Operation Panther’s Claw. We heard the veterans. I started my contribution by saying that I had tragic news of the eight British soldiers and some American talks in Boston last week on soldier nanotechnologies. soldiers who had been killed in the operation, within There is fantastic proven research into soldier hours of each other, in separate incidents. The numbness nanotechnologies taking place now—technologies that that the news created and the guilt that we all feel when will save lives and give protection to our soldiers, but our young men and women pay the ultimate price while which, until now, had relevance only in Hollywood putting their lives in harm’s way were too awful for science fiction movies. That new technology will not be words. cheap, and it may be that our defence budgets will have However, it is not good enough just to say how sorry to be reprioritised. However, the question must surely we are—and we are; how proud we are—and we are; be: why should we spend billions of pounds on a how the fallen did not die in vain—they did not; or that nuclear deterrent that does not deter, when we can the mission is defensible—it is. The families, in coping spend a fraction of the £30 billion to £60 billion needed with their grief and loss, need a bit more than that from for renewing Trident and completely change the risk to Parliament. They need to know that their loss is not in our armed forces, saving lives and protecting our soldiers vain and that the terror that threatens every man, from serious injury? woman and child in every community in our country I am a patron of a veterans’ charity in my constituency will be defeated—and it will. called FEBA, or Forward Edge of the Battle Area. Few in the House doubt the threat and the danger Troops returning from the battlefield need our support, emanating from Afghanistan. Those who argue for our and we have much to do to deliver on that moral duty to walking away and letting the Taliban return to power, our armed forces. We read of statistics: for instance, 8 to with all that would mean for the security of our country 10 per cent. of soldiers who return to our community and the rest of the western world, delude themselves if are in prison, while 25 per cent. of people sleeping they believe that the terrorism we seek to defeat in rough on the streets are former members of our armed Helmand would not come to the streets of London, forces returning to our community. Sadly, many of our Birmingham, Glasgow and other cities in our country. soldiers return with limbs missing and other serious However, my support is not without criticism, particularly disablements. However, many more return looking perfectly when I hear retired generals criticising their successors normal and re-enter our communities, and no one and/or the Government. We know them—they took the recognises the combat stress that they and many thousands Queen’s shilling when they were in charge, but they are more in our armed forces are suffering. Veterans’ charities now writing books, working for defence companies and such as FEBA in my constituency are doing their best, being super-critics. but the Government, politicians and our communities Afghanistan was where 9/11 was planned and executed in general need to do more. from. Bin Laden was in the mountains with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. The No. 1 priority for us all should have 2.55 pm been to catch and defeat al-Qaeda and stop the terrorism on our streets, but sadly it was not. I believed then, and Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): I believe now, that Iraq was a disaster—it was a side The hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton, East issue and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack in New (Mr. Hood) was quite right to remind us about the York. The world would be a different place today if we veterans who return from Iraq, Afghanistan or any had taken on the Afghan mission then, as we should other theatre of conflict bearing not physical but mental have. Nothing that I have heard since has changed my scars, and I hope that the charity in his constituency opinion on that. goes from strength to strength in supporting those soldiers. I return to where we are today and what we need to do. The Foreign Secretary talked about the importance There remains a broad consensus in this House on of the NATO mission, which has been accepted across key aspects of the policy on Afghanistan. The key the House. The Brits and Americans are leading the objective of the mission in Afghanistan to stop al-Qaeda coalition, but they are providing troops disproportionately was, and is, correct. We are right to ask that that to other NATO members. That is just not good enough. objective be tightly defined, as the right hon. Member Those who argue for the enlargement of NATO would for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) did, and to ask have to convince me that the current NATO members exactly what it means in practice, but there is no doubt have proven their worth before we look to enlarge that counter-terrorism remains the stated reason for the further. There are still NATO members that are not war and, unlike in the case of Iraq, that is not being sharing the burden in this mission. questioned by any of the main parties. I want to comment briefly on troop numbers, about There has also been consensus recently on the need to which much has been said. Should we send 2,000 more change the coalition’s approach in Afghanistan and troops, on top of the 9,000 troops who are already Pakistan, and President Obama has provided the there? General Dannatt is reported as having requested leadership to make possible such undertakings as troop 2,000 more troops. My view is that if he has argued reinforcements and the civilian surge in Afghanistan, the case for that, that case should be answered. If the and the encouragement of the Government of Pakistan 505 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 506

[Mr. Edward Davey] John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): Does my hon. Friend agree that if a degree of stability is ever reached to deal with the Taliban in their country and to back in some of those hostile territories, a military presence those efforts with expert counter-insurgency support will still be needed, but in the longer term such a and development aid. We shall wait to see whether presence will have to be provided by the Afghan army those changes are successful, but we agree that they are so that at some time our troops can come home? correct. However, we can question the resources that either America or, in our case, Britain has put behind Mr. Davey: I absolutely accept that and I shall come those changes. back to the subject later. There has of course been total consensus on our There are tough questions surrounding our views on shared gratitude to, and admiration and deep respect the Taliban and on the intentions we think they have to for, our armed forces, and on the brilliant work of foment and protect international terrorist organisations diplomats, UK civilians, aid organisations and others. like al-Qaeda. Is the conservative Pashtun nationalism We are filled with admiration for the great commitment that characterises much of the Taliban inherently jihadist? that they show when carrying out their very difficult The Taliban may be deeply unattractive and unpopular tasks. And of course we pay tribute to all those who with many Afghans, but do they represent an inherent have died. We remember them and their families in our threat to us and other countries? Is there any intelligence hearts. assessment to tell us that the Taliban might agree to Any consensus on matters as serious as these cannot fight al-Qaeda themselves, if only ISAF—the international be a cosy consensus; it has to be questioned hard. When security assistance force—were to withdraw from the our troops have been engaged in a war for eight years, it south of Afghanistan? How would that be viewed in is surely incumbent on this House to ask the toughest relation to the objective of ensuring stability in Pakistan? questions about the strategy and the objectives. I do not These strike me as not unreasonable questions to ask. I want the Foreign Secretary to think that our questions am simply asking for far more honesty and rigour in are rhetorical. We do not pretend to have all the answers, how we approach the definition of our objectives. but we do want to see signs that the Government have some of the answers, and that they are working hard Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington and Chelsea) (Con): and fast to find the rest of them. Has the hon. Gentleman considered the point that There is consensus on the broader aspects of the he—and, I think, most of the speeches so far—has objective, but it has not always been clear how we would concentrated on the situation in Afghanistan when we eventually achieve it. Sometimes, the objective has been know that during the last couple of years there has been described in rather vague language. I hope that notions an enormous spread of the Taliban in Pakistan, which of a western-style democracy and even of nation building is also associated with al-Qaeda activity? Will he comment have now been replaced. We need to focus on the on the implications for the much more serious situation counter-terrorism agenda more directly. That is not to in Pakistan if our efforts in Afghanistan were to fail? If say that we should give up other objectives for Afghanistan, the Taliban, still supporting al-Qaeda, were able to particularly those relating to development. Those objectives resume control, that would not only be bad news in for the international community should surely be there, Afghanistan but make the task of the Pakistani Government whether or not our troops are there. We want to see infinitely more difficult, with far more ominous Afghanistan’s economy improve, its children educated, consequences for the rest of the world. and so on, but that is not why we are fighting, and we need to be more honest about that. Mr. Davey: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is Even working to a more limited, better defined objective absolutely right to say we need to fight the Taliban in of tackling an al-Qaeda terrorist threat to London, Afghanistan in order to support the Pakistan Government New York and elsewhere that has been trained for and in achieving what we have asked them to do, but that organised from Afghanistan and the Pakistan border, still prompts the question of when sufficient stability we need to ask how we will know when that objective will have arrived in southern Afghanistan to provide an has been achieved. How will we know when we have acceptable level of stability in Pakistan. I accept the neutered every al-Qaeda cell in that vast mountainous right hon. and learned Gentleman’s point, but it still expanse? The normal explanation is that, once there is raises other questions, which are precisely those I am stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan and once they seeking to raise. have Governments who will themselves take on any The political stability required to provide us with terrorists that might threaten us, it will be mission sufficient security from a repeat of al-Qaeda terrorist accomplished—if one dare use that phrase. attacks might have quite a messy, chaotic and confused Indeed, a second part of our Afghanistan objectives, aspect. It may well be that that type of political stability according to the Foreign Secretary, has increasingly could be provided by a state that is relatively weak. That become to provide a level of stability to prevent the is why I am trying to tease out from the Government dangers of a failed state, which Afghanistan clearly has whether they really expect a western-style strong democracy been and Pakistan has at times threatened to become. to provide the political stability we need or whether That prompts further questions about the stability we there is some other shape to it. are seeking. What is the level of stability at which a state I believe that we are sometimes in danger of suggesting is deemed to be functioning well enough to reassure us that we have to defeat the Taliban totally and everywhere that terrorists will be expelled or arrested by that in order to win and then withdraw our troops, but that Government? I find it difficult to describe that point does not seem to me to be realistic. We need to focus for except in terms that make me wonder whether we could part of the time on how best to contain the Taliban with ever achieve it, particularly in Afghanistan. strengthened Governments in Kabul and in Pakistan. 507 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 508

Mr. John Horam (Orpington) (Con): The hon. Sir Menzies Campbell: It might also help my hon. Gentleman is right to make the point that we should Friend, in his consideration of the matter, to know that begin to lower expectations about the eventual outcome. the defensive aids available to helicopters are much Our former ambassador, Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, more sophisticated now than they were during the made the point that we could not expect a western-style Soviet invasion and occupation. democracy suddenly to spring out of the soil in Afghanistan and that something much less than that might be all Mr. Davey: Indeed. Let us be clear that the role of that was necessary for an exit strategy. helicopters is judged to be crucial by everyone across the House. Those of us who want to criticise the Mr. Davey: I thank the hon. Gentleman for those Government for failing to provide sufficient helicopters points. in a timely fashion are right to make that challenge. The When we think about our counter-terrorism strategy all-party Defence Committee report published today more widely I believe this point becomes clearer, because has gone into huge detail: parliamentary colleagues the terrorist threat we face in Britain does not uniquely talked to soldiers, commanders and other experts, and live somewhere confined to the mountains either side of found that we have not been ensuring that the helicopter the Durand line. As we have seen, that threat can come fleet is ready. The report is alarming—though it does from our own towns and cities and it can be fomented not use alarmist language—in concluding: as much by our presence in a foreign Islamic country as “We were concerned both by the proposed reduction in the size by our absence. My guess—honestly, it can only be a of the fleet, and by the emergence of a ‘capability deficit’ ahead of guess—is that our deployment so far has been an effective the introduction of newer helicopters.” part of our wider counter-terrorism strategy: by denying That is extremely serious. I hope that whichever Defence al-Qaeda its previous space, ISAF has made our citizens Minister responds to the debate, some of the Defence appreciably safer. However, the job of Ministers is not Committee’s criticisms will be addressed. to guess but to ask for intelligence assessments to decide which strategy makes the country safer. Ms Gisela Stuart: It is right to question the Government, I presume that the Foreign Secretary sees spine-chilling and to criticise if fault is found. Does the hon. Gentleman accounts from the intelligence services of how many agree, however, that in a week when eight dead soldiers al-Qaeda fighters are in the region, and how many were returned, three of whom were so young that they hundreds or thousands of foreigners are travelling from were still in primary school when the Afghan conflict all over the world to join their jihad against us. When started, politicians should not create the impression was the last time that he or the Prime Minister assessed, that the casualties would not have been inflicted if only against the evidence and intelligence, the progress of we had the helicopters? We must be sensitive. our policy on Afghanistan in achieving its central counter- terrorist objectives? Have the Government assessed whether Mr. Davey: I completely agree with the hon. Lady. Operation Enduring Freedom and the ISAF deployment is the best way to use our resources to make Britain and Mr. James Arbuthnot (North-East Hampshire) (Con): the world safer? Ultimately, can Ministers assure us that The hon. Member for Newport, West (Paul Flynn) said, there is a serious remaining threat to Britain and the perfectly fairly, that because a helicopter contains a world posed by al-Qaeda fighters, if they are still there, large number of people, it can cause a large number of and from the danger of a failed state in Afghanistan or deaths at any one time. That is true. Provided that the Pakistan leading to the resurgence of an al-Qaeda threat? helicopters are available to them, commanders on the Unless that threat remains, is real, and can be tackled ground will need to weigh the risks in the balance, and by our presence, the mission’s objective is undermined—I decide whether one method of transport is safer than do not believe that it is, but we need to be reassured that another. the Government are asking such questions of our intelligence services and military. Mr. Davey: I agree. I believe that such decisions On resources for our troops, the three charges made should be made by the soldiers and commanders on the against the Government relate to helicopters, vehicles ground, not by us in the House of Commons. Our job is and troop numbers. On all accounts, the Government to provide them with the necessary resources in the first have at best been slow to address those issues, and at place. worse made serious errors. My hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Laws) Paul Flynn: Is there not a grave danger that if troop asked a question that did not receive a reply. If, for some movements take place more in helicopters in future, we reason, it is dangerous for the figures relating to the might see a repeat of what happened during the Russian absolute number of helicopters two years ago and the invasion when 20 helicopters were shot down? Were present number to be in the public domain—of which I that to happen, we might see our soldiers dying not in am not entirely convinced—surely those figures can be twos or three, but in 30s or 40s? shared with members of the Select Committee so that they can, on our behalf, hold the Government to account Mr. Davey: I do not have the full information to for the statements that they are making about helicopters. answer that question, because I do not know the full weapon capability of the Taliban, but my right hon. and Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con): The shortage is learned Friend the Member for North-East Fife (Sir serious for a number of reasons, many of which have Menzies Campbell) informs me from a sedentary position been aired this afternoon. If commanders on the ground that they do not have the weapons that the Mujaheddin are given the option of moving troops by air as well as had against the Russians and their helicopters. I defer to by road—we saw plenty of that in Northern Ireland—and others on the exact details of that. if there are not enough helicopters, many victories on 509 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 510

[Mr. John Baron] have been rather more cavalier than the British forces in that regard. I think that that is why General McChrystal— the ground will become pyrrhic if we do not dominate not me—gave that instruction. the ground afterwards. That is what we are currently seeing in parts of Afghanistan. Paul Flynn: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Davey: I share the hon. Gentleman’s view. Mr. Davey: I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon, but I am not going to take any more interventions. Ann Winterton: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? I assume that Governor Mangal is central to organising the civilian surge, at least in Helmand; but is he? I think Mr. Davey: I am sorry, but I want to make some we need to know about the nature of the involvement of progress. I do not want to take too much of the House’s the Afghan people. The civilian-military operations may time: I want others to be able to speak. have a great deal of British and American input, especially When it comes to troop numbers, the case against the in terms of finance and specialist skills, but can we be Prime Minister’s judgment seems even stronger. As was told in the winding-up speech how many Afghans are pointed out by the right hon. Member for Richmond, working with these teams, and how are local fears of Yorks, the Chiefs of Staff appear to have put to the being branded a collaborator should the Taliban retake Prime Minister a recommendation—not an option—in a village or town being overcome? That is critical to stating that the provision of 2,000 extra troops was their achieving the local political solutions we need, and we preference. It appears that cost was a key issue in the cannot move from the military to the political solutions rejection of their recommendation. If that is not the unless we deal with that fear. case, the Secretary of State can stand up at the Dispatch Part of my concern about the current strategy—if we Box and deny it, but so far we have heard no denial of can call it that—is that one rarely hears a convincing those reports, although the charge is fairly serious. I description of what shape the political solutions envisaged hope that the Secretary of State will at least try to in Washington, London, Kabul and elsewhere will take. respond to it when he winds up the debate. The elements are there and they are repeated often. I do not think that anyone is arguing that a reinforcement They include the following: the elections in August; the of 2,000 troops would have transformed our fortunes in emphasis on having local political solutions, which is Helmand—of course it would not—but it is clear that vital given the reality of decentralisation in Afghanistan; more troops would have helped to do the job of winning the importance of building the Afghan national army more territory ahead of the key elections. However, and police force; and the investment in non-narcotic even more troops cannot help if there is no link between agriculture. Yet it all seems to lack coherence. Perhaps their presence and the political solutions that we are General McChyrstal will bring some coherence after he trying to achieve. General McChrystal is at least trying has completed his current review, which will presumably to stop the military part of the campaign from making take into account the election result. However, one has the political solutions more difficult with his instruction to ask some serious questions about whether the to reduce the number of civilian casualties. Government are playing their full role in making sure More should have been done much earlier to prevent that everything is coherent. civilian casualties. When the hon. Member for Newport, On the elections, how is ISAF planning to judge West (Paul Flynn) asked about the number of casualties whether they have been a successful exercise that confers in February this year, the Foreign Secretary promised to genuine legitimacy on the victor? With half the population write to him with the best estimate that the Government registered to vote at the last estimate, and with widespread had. Perhaps the Secretary of State will tell us what that accusations of fraud in some provinces, do Ministers figure was, and whether there is any update. believe this election can provide the springboard that Of course, a political solution through our military we all hope for? One also has to ask searching questions presence means doing much more than simply limiting about security and the international monitoring of the the collateral. We are told that the civilian surge is key campaign and polling day itself. When he replies to the to that, and is being developed and improved, but the debate, can the Secretary of State say a little more about critical question must be “What is the involvement of the preparations for this election, as that is clearly a ordinary Afghans in that surge?” The Foreign Secretary critical part of the journey to political progress? has rightly talked about “Afghanisation” of the efforts, In describing that political progress, I would like the but I want to hear in far more detail how that is being Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary to say a implemented. little more about how they view the role of the Taliban. Have the Taliban been engaged in any shape or form by The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): our diplomats or security services? Are there any successful Of course General McChrystal is right to place the attempts that Ministers can point to of having engaged emphasis where he does, but I hope that the hon. parts of the Taliban and peeled them away? If there are Gentleman would not try to give the impression that we such examples, we need to hear about them, because the have been cavalier about civilian casualties in the past. plans for reconciliation and a political solution depend We have done all that we can to avoid them, and we on it. We need the Government to address those questions, investigate them thoroughly whenever they arise. The otherwise concern will remain about the direction we Taliban kill far more Afghans than our forces do. are taking. My final remarks relate to Pakistan. It appears that Mr. Davey: I can reassure the Secretary of State that I some progress has been made; either through persuasion, agree with him on that point, but I hope he accepts that bribery, reassurance or simply of their own volition, the there have been many reports suggesting that the Americans Pakistani Government appear to have grasped some 511 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 512 difficult nettles, and they deserve credit for that. Our build an Afghanistan capable of self-government Government are therefore right to proffer our strong domestically and of securing its borders from internal support, with development aid and counter-insurgency or external infiltration and threat. There have never expertise. As the Foreign Secretary noted, providing been the heightened expectations to which several people assistance to the refugees of the fighting is also critical. in this Chamber have referred; nobody ever thought The better co-operation we have seen between ISAF that we would create another United Kingdom somewhere and Pakistan, and between Presidents Karzai and Zardari, next to Pakistan. I used to say that we do not believe also bodes well. Do the Government think that can be that we are creating Hampshire—or New Hampshire—near sustained, and how are we helping in that, and does it Kabul. Any development on the civil, political and mark the strategic shift we all want? We have heard military side will have to bear in mind the culture, about the Pakistani army now patrolling parts of the history, traditions, beliefs and limitations of Afghanistan’s border to stop the Taliban regrouping in Pakistan. That tribal society. So let us put that in perspective. It is right is fantastic, but can it be sustained? that we should be clear in our aims, but I do not believe The better relationship between Pakistan and that we have ever been that unclear that we thought we Afghanistan points to what we need in the wider sense—the were creating a western democracy. inclusion of all the region’s players to create the solution. Secondly, there are some myths and misconceptions Secretary of State Clinton deserves a lot of credit for about resources. The initial configuration— trying to do that. Everyone is aware of the many historical and political sensitivities that arise in any one of the Mr. Jenkin: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? region’s players being involved, such as India’s disputes with Pakistan over Kashmir, and the fact that the John Reid: I will do so once, but I am very limited in Iranians, who have been extraordinarily helpful in the my time. west of Afghanistan at different times, have many arguments with Britain and America. We need to find the diplomatic Mr. Jenkin: I have been listening carefully and seeking skills to see beyond those historical sensitivities and to hear from the right hon. Gentleman what the strategy disagreements, in order to find a solution that will work is. What he has outlined is a series of aspirations, but as in Afghanistan. Professor Richard Holmes would put it, this campaign I believe that President Obama, Secretary Clinton, seems to be long on aspirations and rather short on Richard Holbrooke and General McChrystal have coherent strategy—on how we are going to achieve produced something that we can all rally behind—ISAF those aims. and the many countries involved in this enterprise. We are now entering a critical phase, and the effort, the John Reid: I think that the hon. Gentleman is entirely extra resources and the extra political capital put behind wrong. What I outlined, in slightly less than a minute it now need to be made to work. The Government know and a half, was the strategic objective and the short and they have the support of all the main parties on this, but longer-term means of achieving it. I did precisely what they have got to start answering more searching questions he asked for; I did not give a list of aspirations; I gave a to make sure they retain the support of the country. list of objectives, which is what a strategy is about. Beyond the grand strategy of politics is the military 3.20 pm strategy of how to achieve it, and behind the military strategy are the planning assumptions and the resources John Reid (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): I declare an necessary in order to achieve that. interest, as registered. May I begin by expressing my That is why I turn now to resources. Let me tell the condolences for every one of the young men and women House that the configuration that we sent in to Helmand who have given their life or sustained injury in the cause province in 2006 was not, contrary to some of the for which we sent them? We should remember them statements made in recent days, chosen by politicians. every moment of every day. That configuration—that series of resources, in shape, In the limited time available to me, I wish to touch on capabilities and numbers—was decided upon by the the questions before the House, which concern strategy, chiefs of staff. Secondly, its funding was not refused by resources, Government posture and the nature of the the Treasury. It was my job, as the then Secretary of conflict. The strategic objective, which has been the State, to get it fully funded, and one of the three subject of much discussion here, has been clear from the conditions that I laid down before we went into Afghanistan beginning. It may have been formulated in different was precisely that the Treasury would fund it. ways, but it is as follows: to protect our country’s Having said that, since then there has, of course, been security by assisting the democratically elected Afghanistan a change of tactics by the Taliban, a change of Government to reconstruct their civil, political, military circumstances and a change in the mission itself, in and economic capacity. some ways. So people are right to ask whether the In order to achieve that objective, there are two short current resources meet the current tasks, notwithstanding to medium-term aims and a longer-term objective. The the fact that they have met the tasks in the past. We are short to medium-term aims are: first, to prevent the right, therefore, to ask the Government to keep an open Taliban from once again using Afghanistan as their mind. No plan survives the first contact with the enemy, own Government through imposition, by terror and and as the enemy changes in response to our actions, force, on the people of Afghanistan; and, secondly, to and the resources we need are different or greater, it is prevent that shield from allowing al-Qaeda to use the obligation of Government to supply the resources Afghanistan as a space in which it can plan, rehearse that the military thinks that it needs to accomplish and launch terrorist attacks outside Afghanistan’s borders. the objectives set out. I hope that the Government The longer-term strategic objective is, of course, to help will do that. I am not in a position to decide on what 513 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 514

[John Reid] Military force has no utility on its own. It only has utility in pursuit of a political objective. So when we Sir Richard Dannatt or anyone else requested, but when have a military surge—as we are having now, and I we ask young men and women to risk their lives at the welcome that—we need to bear in mind that at some front, we should ensure that they have the resources to stage we will also need a political surge. If we are to minimise those risks. achieve some form of stability in Afghanistan, that I wish to tackle another myth—that I at any stage political surge means that we will have to deal with, talk hoped, predicted, expected, promised or pledged that to and perhaps incorporate among those who govern we would leave Afghanistan without firing a shot. It is Afghanistan those tribal elements and those elements not true. No matter how often the press repeat that, of the Taliban who are opposed to al-Qaeda. In other they cannot make an untruth truthful by constant words, we must help to build a hybrid state there. repetition—although Goebbels recognised that if an In short, there is no military solution. The military untruth were repeated often enough, people might come are there only to accomplish the political objectives that to believe that it was the truth. In fact, to the contrary, I we have laid out. Our aim is to enable Afghanistan to insisted that were great threats in Afghanistan. Indeed, continue on its own so that it can build a civil society I refused to deploy the troops for four months beyond and develop its own economy and security. Above all, the original date because we did not have the configuration we want a better society for the people of Afghanistan. necessary—the Dutch were not in Oruzgan province to In working for that, we can make sure that our front protect our northern flank. line in Afghanistan protects the people in our communities I could give quotation after quotation, but I shall and country. make a couple suffice. The other day I said: “I did, however, insist that we would not be aggressors. We did 3.30 pm not seek war. We did not go there as part of an invasion. For our part, we would be happy to go and work with the Afghan Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington and Chelsea) (Con): Government and leave without firing a shot.”—[Official Report, The right hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (John 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 4.] Reid) is right to say that the conflict in Afghanistan has But the Taliban wanted to destroy that which was being changed over the past eight years. It is much more created and we were therefore forced to defend ourselves, serious than was anticipated, and that has given rise to which we did with great vigour. a degree of public concern. However, although we recognise that there are real problems in Afghanistan, it I said three years ago that is important that we are careful to ensure that they are “only someone who is dreadfully naive would think that we will not presented in a way that makes public concern be allowed to carry out …the NATO task, in which we will be greater than it need be. involved when we go to the south…unhindered by any attacks.”— [Official Report, 23 January 2006; Vol. 441, c. 1159.] I think that the British public are pretty robust about Earlier, I had said: Afghanistan. The situation is very different from the one in respect of Iraq. The nation was not divided “I stress that wherever NATO troops are in Afghanistan they may be liable to attacks from insurgents. If they are attacked by about the intervention in Afghanistan, and questions of insurgents and terrorists, of course we will defend ourselves—that legitimacy have never been a serious issue. There was is the nature of the rules of engagement and of our remit.”—[Official confusion at first, when the British and American Report, 12 December 2005; Vol. 440, c. 1093.] Governments appeared to give equal weight to eliminating I hope that the House will forgive me for raising these the poppy trade, getting rid of corruption and improving points. All hon. Members, as politicians, are used to human rights as to the fundamental task of removing being misrepresented, but it does not usually happen on al-Qaeda’s opportunity to operate. That problem was a subject as sensitive as this, when there are families resolved a year or so ago, since when there has been grieving for those who have died and who expect us to much greater clarity. I very much welcome that, as it is set the record straight. much to be desired. If we do not understand the nature of the conflict, we However, it is also important to recognise the public’s will not understand whether we can win, what is the attitude to fatalities. There is a debate about whether nature of “victory” and whether we are making progress. more helicopters might have reduced the number of I commend to the House the thoughts of several British deaths in Afghanistan. I very much agree with what the generals, but especially those of General Rupert Smith, hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) who describes the nature of the present conflict as the said a few moments ago, and we are foolish if we “struggle among the people”. That is what we are sometimes give the impression that people die in war engaged in, and the nature of the victory therefore lies because the Government of the day have made a mistake, not in the traditional victory parade on a definite date or because the armed forces have done something wrong. with a definite piece of land secured, but in preventing Wars today are not much changed from those in the Taliban from enforcing their will on the Afghanistan bygone years. Large numbers of people die, and we can people, by excluding al-Qaeda and by securing our never know whether an extra helicopter would have country’s safety. But it is a continuing struggle that will prevented an individual fatality. It is foolish even to try go on for a considerable time. Nevertheless, it is important to identify the answer to such a question. We have had that we believe that we need not be there indefinitely. terrible fatalities in Afghanistan, and every life lost is Part of our aim in our strategic objectives is to allow the appalling. Some 47 of our people have lost their lives in people of Afghanistan, through their own Government, the current year, but it is worth remembering that the to continue that struggle when we are gone—in the way US forces—even with their massive resources, large that the people of Iraq are doing against the internal numbers of helicopters and all the other facilities available enemy. to them—have lost 109 people. 515 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 516

Since the campaign began, the UK has tragically lost generals are an albatross around our necks, whatever 184 soldiers, but the US has lost 739. The Canadians, the circumstances and at any time. However, I cannot whose commitment is far smaller than ours, have lost recall a time when these same retired generals have been no fewer than 124 troops. Our public are well aware of so vocal, unequivocal, acerbic and unconstrained in that, but we must remind them that people lose their their criticisms. All Governments, whether this Government lives when wars break out. People are rightly paying or previous ones, must remember that retired generals tribute to the awful loss of life that has happened, but continue to have the closest of contact with serving they are much more robust than we sometimes give generals and officers. What they say does not just reflect them credit for. They realise, as they did during the their own personal views, but is based on what they Falklands war, that death is inseparable from any serious know is happening in the armed forces, and therefore war with proper ends and a proper approach. has to be given weight. That is a matter of great Lord Owen said recently that he believed that the concern. conduct of the war was inappropriate and that there The final area on which I want to comment relates to was a need for what he called an “overlord”. He suggested what I have just said, but is actually even more serious. that Lord Robertson should be brought back to be the To a far greater extent than I can recall being the case in overlord for the various Departments involved in the the past 60 years, there is a very visible erosion in the conflict. I have great respect for Lord Owen. I usually confidence and trust between serving officers and the agree with his remarks, but not on this occasion. Overlords Government of the day. We are told that senior Labour have been tried before—Sir Thomas Inskip in the 1930s figures are attacking the Chief of the General Staff and is one example—but they do not work. They do not telling him not to meddle in politics and such matters. have a Department to run, and they have no budget or This is a matter of the gravest and most serious nature. I powers, so all they can do is to try and co-ordinate what have not the time to say who is to blame, but the is going on. That never works. However, if we need an Government must realise, because they ultimately have overlord we have one already. He is called the Prime the responsibility, that if serving and retired officers are Minister. If the job of co-ordination—of banging heads speaking so publicly, and with such criticism of Government together—is needed, that is his responsibility and no action, they have an enormous duty to try to address one else’s. It ought to be seen as such. those concerns. These are not light-hearted matters, and I turn now to the main ways in which the campaign the public will keep confidence in the whole operation has changed, and the issues that we are now addressing. only if they believe that the armed forces and Her The debate is about Afghanistan and Pakistan, and it is Majesty’s Government are working with the closest right that it has been given that double title because the confidence and mutual trust. The impression is that whole purpose of the campaign has changed very that is no longer the case. The quicker that that is dramatically.In the earlier years, we assumed that Pakistan addressed, the better. was important because its north-west frontier could not be a safe haven for Taliban or al-Qaeda forces fleeing 3.38 pm from Afghanistan. In some ways, it is now the other way Mr. Michael Meacher (Oldham, West and Royton) around. If we were to fail in Afghanistan, and if the (Lab): I want briefly to offer a slightly different perspective Taliban, or people like them, were to regain control, or on this war, although I agree with a great deal of what if people sympathetic to al-Qaeda were to be in charge, has been said. Everyone recognises the courage and not only would it have the most grave consequences enormous skill demonstrated by our armed forces in within Afghanistan and for the wider community, but it fighting what is clearly a difficult and dangerous war in would make the job of the Pakistani Government, who Afghanistan. I endorse that, as—I am sure—does every are now much more robust then they have been for Member of this House, but I do not think that that many years, infinitely more difficult. How could they should be allowed to conceal unease about the nature of hope to eliminate the Pakistani Taliban and al-Qaeda in the conflict or its objectives and exit strategy. I want to their own country, if those very people could themselves concentrate on that. seek haven in Afghanistan? That could be their retreat in depth from any conflict in which they were involved. The conflict has been represented in the west almost So the stakes are very high and we should not forget exclusively as a war against terrorism, but I submit that that. that is a highly misleading portrayal. For the Taliban, who are not al-Qaeda, it is basically a civil war: the There is this question of manpower. I shall not get Pashtuns, who are the traditional rulers of Afghanistan, into a dispute about whether the British Army in against the Tajiks and Uzbeks, who make up the Northern Afghanistan needs 900 or 2,000 people more. In reality, Alliance and who, with US help in 2001, won the civil the problem arises from a quite separate point: over the war and now largely dominate the Government. That, past 12 years, the Government have been involved in of course, is exactly the problem. The US and NATO more wars—including in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan— invasion has unintentionally and perversely reinstated a than any Government for 50 years, and yet during that series of brutal and corrupt landlords—warlords, I same period Army manpower has been consistently should say; they are also in control of a great deal of reduced. That is a disgrace and needs to be rectified. land, but I meant warlords—under the phoney pretence Increasing Army manpower costs much less than many that they are democratic. The US and NATO set up a other aspects of the defence budget, as I know from my western-backed Karzai Government, but that Government’s background in that Department. writ runs for only a few miles outside Kabul. In his opening remarks, the Member for Lanark and As others have said, the invasion has driven the Hamilton, East (Mr. Hood) made an attack on retired Taliban and al-Qaeda leadership over the border into generals. Any of us who have been privileged to serve as Pakistan, where, of course, it is now infinitely more Ministers in the Ministry of Defence know that retired dangerous. The invasion also restored the Pashtun 517 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 518

[Mr. Michael Meacher] Given those factors, what is the exit strategy—if, indeed, the Americans intend there to be one at all? The nationalism that is now represented by the Taliban. As war is stuck in a bloody stalemate. US and UK troops mission creep has detached the Afghan war from the obviously have the ability to clear the ground, as they original target of al-Qaeda, it has morphed into a much are showing with Operation Panther’s Claw in northern wider kind of war. It is a war of civilisations, in which Helmand, but they are increasingly vulnerable to a high the western aspirations, which everyone in this House kill and casualty rate from improvised explosive devices— will support, of restoring stability, ensuring a certain from booby traps, roadside bombs and so on. On the measure of democratic government—I think that we all other side, the Taliban, according to constant western recognise the limits of that—and improving basic services military reports, have a stiffened and highly organised for the people are pitted against the indigenous nationalistic determination to resist, but they are vulnerable to air determination on the ground to rid the country of power, particularly helicopter gunships. foreign occupation. Both sides will seek to overcome those difficulties, Two other factors seem to make western goals much and to some extent they are, while consolidating their more problematic. One is the increasing reliance, especially strengths. NATO forces are becoming more adept at by the US military, on air power as a way of minimising locating hidden bombs, and troop numbers are being troop casualties, with devastating consequences in terms significantly boosted, with 17,000 in the case of the of increased civilian blood-letting. Americans, which is a 50 per cent. increase. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, West (Paul Paul Flynn: In answer to the question put by the Flynn) said, the Taliban will certainly be trying to gain spokesman for the Liberal Democrats, the hon. Member access to effective surface-to-air missiles, which, we for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey), about the should remember, turned the war against the Soviet answer that I had from the Foreign Secretary about the forces in the 1980s and could do the same against number of civilian casualties in 2008, as far as I recall, NATO. according to the British Government the number was There is no obvious way out of the stalemate, other 234, but according to the United Nations, the number is than by pouring in 10 or 20 times the number of 864. However, it was also pointed out that the number NATO—for that, one reads US—troops, and that is of civilian casualties caused by the Taliban was 1,100. surely unimaginable in terms of domestic US politics. Even 500,000 troops in Vietnam could not defeat a Mr. Meacher: I take the points made by my hon. determined enemy, dedicated to throwing out its foreign Friend. I was going to present some of those figures occupiers. This is not now primarily a war against myself, but whatever the exact figures, the real point is terror, and, even in so far as it is, the terror networks about changing the perception of the Afghan population have been transferred into safe havens in Pakistan, the about western involvement in their country. The figures sixth largest state in the world and nuclear-armed, that I have are that civilian deaths at the hand of NATO where their potential for destabilisation is certainly forces have risen to more than 4,000 since 2006. In the much greater. past year alone, they have tripled to 2,000. I am not Where is the situation leading? The strategic importance referring, of course, to those caused by UK troops; I of Afghanistan does not suggest an early US withdrawal, understand that they are overwhelmingly caused by and the US and its allies can neither pacify Afghanistan American troops, but the perception that they create long-term, nor seal the border with the Taliban’s Pakistani affects the landscape for us. sanctuary. There will have to be a negotiated withdrawal— Close air support bomb attacks, called in by ground certainly not immediately and certainly not in a hurry, forces, rose from about 175 in 2005 to nearly 3,000 in but as part of a wider political and regional settlement 2007. They are now, of course, the US tactic of choice, underpinned by other forces in the region. but they kill four to 10 times the number of Afghan civilians killed by ground attacks. Air strikes now account 3.48 pm for around 80 per cent. of those killed by occupation forces, and it is certainly being claimed—I have no basis Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): I on which either to prove or to disprove this—that the fully supported the original intervention in Afghanistan coalition has killed more children in Afghanistan by its in 2001, and the attack on the Tora Bora mountains, reckless use of tactical air power than have died at the although it was not fully successful. However, since we hands of the Taliban. That is certainly being claimed; it went back in 2003, I have had great misgivings about may not be correct. Certainly, the numbers are considerable. the possibility of success. It seemed to me that the The second factor that I think makes western promotion objectives that were announced would require a vastly of good governance much more difficult is the deeply greater commitment of troops, helicopters and back-up unpopular 2005 agreement for indefinite bases in the than Britain was capable of providing, and that the country, which clearly indicated that the US, at least, whole operation would break down because of the saw itself as being in for the long haul. That was inadequate use of force. reinforced by NATO’s Secretary-General, Jaap de Hoop Furthermore, it has to be borne in mind that the most Scheffer, who said, I think last year, that western interests important event in the history of Islam was when the in Afghanistan went well beyond good governance to a Prophet Mohammed drove out the foreigners from the strategic interest in having a permanent military presence holy cities of Mecca and Medina. That is the inspiration in a state that borders central Asia, China, Iran and for Osama bin Laden and the theological basis of his Pakistan. The insurgency in Afghanistan is aiming not appeal to Muslims throughout the world. One will not for terror attacks in London, but for the removal of find any well brought up six-year-old Muslim child who foreign troops from the occupation of their country. does not know that story, and it absolutely chimes with 519 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 520 the basic feelings of people who live in Afghanistan. All the evidence is that al-Qaeda has now left Afghanistan They, for centuries, have been invaded by foreigners. altogether. There is no reason at all why we cannot They have an absolute detestation of foreign intervention; negotiate a settlement with the Taliban; indeed, we the more troops we put into Afghanistan, the greater know that the Americans are trying to do exactly that. the resistance to us will be. Years ago, when these It is completely false to say that we have to pursue the debates were beginning, I made two points. The first war to protect Pakistan. I have been saying for seven was that 300,000 troops would not be sufficient to do years that this war would have the effect of radicalising the job and the other was that the more troops we put Pakistan. The Taliban had no influence in Pakistan in, the more it would be like throwing kerosene on to a until very recently; now, allegedly, even Karachi has a burning tent. I believe that that remains true today. Taliban influence. That sounds rather like sending in I want to deal with only very few points during the the Salvation Army to run Sodom and Gomorrah. The short time that I have to speak. The original objectives Taliban running Karachi is simply not going to happen; have virtually been abandoned; they were to capture or anybody who has been to Karachi knows that the kill Osama bin Laden, get rid of the poppy trade, Taliban will not be welcomed there. However, the Taliban overthrow the Taliban and set up a democratic Government. are radicalising the peasantry throughout Pakistan, which None of them have been achieved, and I do not believe has a huge population of illiterate, very poor people that any ever will be. In fact, Osama bin Laden is who have never had a proper Government and are very probably more of a danger dead than alive, because of unhappy. Having foreign troops attacking Waziristan his mystique. and so on will merely make them increasingly radical I want to question two particular points. Basically, and increasingly violently opposed to western interests. the new objectives are that we want to fight in Afghanistan 3.56 pm to avoid terrorism in Britain and the method of achieving that in the medium and long term is the building up of a Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I, too, express my large Afghan army. The issue is vital for the future, so I condolences to the families of those who have lost their ask Ministers to ask themselves a question: to whom do lives in Afghanistan. they think this large Afghan army will owe its allegiance? As always in these debates, I say that we have the best Afghanistan, which is the size of France, is not really a armed forces in the world who deserve all our support country at all; until the early 19th century, it was just and the best possible equipment to ensure that they can called the area in which the Afghans lived. There is continue to do the job in the way they do. War and really no such thing as an Afghan. Afghanistan has 60 conflict are not risk-free. There have clearly been areas different tribes. The northern tribes in the Northern where we could have done things better and perhaps Alliance—the Uzbeks, the Tajiks and so on—are quite learned lessons more quickly, but that has been the case different from the Pashtun, who were called the Pathans in warfare and conflict throughout history. The key when I was young. thing is to learn our lessons quickly. There is no possibility of such tribes working together Having spoken to our armed forces when I visited for any length of time. If the army is to be predominantly Afghanistan and Iraq, I sincerely believe that they feel Pashtun, it will be disliked by all the other tribes; if the they are better equipped than they have ever been. The army is an attempt to merge all the tribes together, it personal kit, in particular, is seen as the best they have will simply be unworkable. The arms that we give the had, and there have been significant improvements in army will all be sold to the Taliban, as happened with other equipment. One of their complaints was that the mujaheddin. Much of the weaponry that the Taliban although the equipment had improved a lot, they did are using now comes from the $25 billion of arms that not have a chance to train with it when they were back the Americans poured into the mujaheddin. in the UK because they had to rush out to theatre. That In my view, there is not the slightest possibility that is an important point to understand. Of course there is the army will be loyal to President Karzai. The idea that always more that we can do. our young men are fighting and dying so that President Something that has not been mentioned so far is the Karzai can remain President of Afghanistan is absolutely massive improvement in medical support. All the personnel fantastic. Only a few weeks ago, Washington was desperately I spoke to in theatre said that they had great confidence looking around to find somebody other than Karzai to in the medical support that was out there in terms of be put up for the presidency. He is a completely hopeless how quickly it could get to people. There is now the and discredited man. If he goes back to the presidential hard-roofed hospital at Camp Bastion, which I have palace in Kabul, he will not be able to come out again visited; it is a great facility that is being used by the without immediate danger of assassination. Americans and others. When people come back to the The other argument is that we have to go on with our UK, they go to Selly Oak or Headley Court. Major campaign because of the danger of terrorism at home. I improvements have taken place under this Government. do not believe that that is true. First, Jonathan Evans, I will not go over our objectives again, as my Front-Bench the head of MI5, said recently that our military presence colleagues have made them fairly clear. A crucial aspect in Afghanistan actually increased the danger of terrorist is the position of Pakistan—how it is involved, how we activity in this country. We also know from the security work with it, and its relationship with the whole region, services that 2,000 people living in Britain are under not least Afghanistan. NATO, the UN and others will constant surveillance because they are believed to be have to support and work with Pakistan to deal with potential terrorists. We are exporting terrorists all over terrorism, the Taliban and those who want to see chaos the world; it is one of our most effective export trades. and war around the region. The fundamental Islamists Al-Qaeda and the Taliban have always been totally who cause so many of the problems and difficulties that different from each other. The Taliban have never had we face must be stood up to, and we cannot do that just international ambitions and have always disliked al-Qaeda. by non-military means. 521 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 522

[Derek Twigg] money to be diverted from protected vehicles. There has to be a balance. Surveillance equipment is key for The Afghans told me that, for them, security is detecting roadside bombs and surveilling areas where key—whether it is the security to go to school, to go to the Taliban are known to be active. There must be a work or to get their goods to market—as is personal balance. The tactics must be right, and we must have a safety. That is something that we are working on very number of options available to us. strongly. Also key is the development of the Afghan Lessons must always be learned quickly, and there is army and police, with increases in their numbers. A evidence that at times we have not done so. I do not great deal of improvement has taken place in the Afghan know whether that is because of circumstances in the army, but much more needs to be done as regards the field or because of the set-up of the Ministry of Defence, police. At the end of the day, there will have to be but we have to learn lessons quickly. That has always reconciliation with elements of the Taliban and the been the case in warfare. In the second world war we tribes that are fighting against the coalition forces. That were putting Sherman tanks against German tanks, and will have to be done by the Afghans themselves; it they were no match for them despite all the years at war. cannot be done by us, nor should it be. We must always learn lessons and ensure that we get Returning to the issue of equipment, it is important things right and protect our troops in the best possible to understand that this is a NATO operation: a coalition. way. We have heard about General Dannatt flying in the The decision to go in was taken in 2006, before I was American army helicopter; well, Americans fly in our at the MOD. I would be interested to know what advice helicopters. I flew in a Dutch helicopter when I was in Ministers were given by the chiefs of staff about what Afghanistan for the first time. We must ensure that could be achieved with the forces and equipment we NATO uses its own resources to the best possible extent had at that time, so that we could deliver our political and efficiency. aims and those of the western alliance. I do not believe there is any doubt that we need more In the end, we must support our armed forces, who helicopters, and I welcome what the Government have are the best in the world. Politicians fail, as we know, said about the increased helicopter numbers and hours and we have to revert to military action at times. The and our future plans. One thing that often gets overlooked military are the people who protect our security, whether is that helicopters are not just about deploying troops at home or abroad, and they deserve our full support. but about CASEVAC—casualty evacuation. They are about getting wounded service personnel back from the front line and to hospital for treatment as quickly as 4.3 pm possible. Sir Menzies Campbell (North-East Fife) (LD): The All the commanders I spoke to when I went to hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) spoke approvingly Afghanistan said that they wanted more helicopters. of the quality of medical services now available. Those That was very clear and matter of fact. They regularly who have the privilege of going to the hospital at Selly raised with me the fact that on every occasion they Oak or the rehabilitation centre at Headley Court will could go in and defeat the Taliban, but then because see ample evidence of that medical skill, but they will there were not enough troops on the ground, or sometimes also see extraordinary illustrations of courage and a enough equipment, to be able to dominate the area, the determination to overcome adversity from the patients Taliban would come back in. Again, it was for NATO, in either institution. not just this country, to get to grips with that. One of We have no conscripts. Our armed forces are professional, the biggest mistakes that was made was not dominating and we therefore expect of them professionalism, skill the ground that we took, and NATO has a responsibility and courage. However, we have no right to expect them for that, because we increased our troop numbers to display those qualities unless, in return, we give them considerably. the best equipment available. We have no right to expose I cannot say whether lives would have been saved if them to unnecessary risk and no right to take advantage we had had more helicopters, as some have suggested. of their loyalty. In Afghanistan, they have not failed in One of them could have been brought down and we their duty, but—I do not say this lightly—I believe that could have lost a lot of soldiers—more than if an we have failed in ours. armoured vehicle was blown up, for instance. It is The United Kingdom is not equipped to conduct two important to understand that it is not an exact science, hot wars, as it has done in the past six years. It was not and we cannot say that more helicopters would definitely supposed to be like that. The 1998 defence review, in have saved lives. Again, the question is whether NATO which the right hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts can provide more helicopters and more support. (John Reid) played a leading part as the then Minister We have increased troop numbers, and it is important for the Armed Forces, was much praised. However, it that our troops dominate the ground to ensure that the envisaged one short war-fighting deployment and one development that we all want to see takes place. It non-war-fighting operation happening simultaneously. annoys me that today commentators are still saying that Instead, we have had two enduring war-fighting the solution will not be a military one. No one is saying deployments. There is therefore no wonder that there is that it will, and I am amazed that commentators still go a shortage of equipment, that the Army, in Sir Richard on about that. However, it must be a military aim to Dannatt’s words has been “running hot”, and that the enable development to take place in terms of schools, rate of attrition of equipment has been so severe. hospitals, agriculture and so on for the Afghans. The loyalty of the armed services extends beyond I do not want the fact that protected vehicles are Queen and country to making do, getting on with the crucial to be lost in the debate about helicopters. The job—cracking on, to use their vernacular—and to, in press are currently into helicopters, but we do not want the Army in particular, loyalty to the regiment and the 523 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 524 people with whom they serve. Again, I do not say this opposition to our continued presence. The argument lightly, but I believe that we have exploited that loyalty. will be: “Come out, irrespective of the consequences of Yesterday, the Prime Minister spoke dismissively of doing so.” That is why I want to finish with this. what he called political point scoring. The Government Whatever else the Government are doing, they should should understand the difference between support for be knocking on the door of every defence ministry of the armed services and the legitimate questioning of every NATO country and saying, “We want to beg, Government policy by Members of Parliament. As the borrow or steal protected vehicles. We want to beg, hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Sir Peter borrow or steal any helicopters that you have. You may Tapsell) gave us something of a historical perspective, I not be willing to risk the lives of your young men and remind the House that as a result of the Norway debate women, but at the very least you have an obligation to in this Chamber, the course, conduct and direction of help those of us who are willing to take that risk with the second world war was substantially changed. Of the matériel that will enable us to carry this operation course we will support our forces, but we have a duty as through to a proper conclusion.” Members of Parliament to question Government policies when we believe that they are not apt or adequate to cover the challenges that our forces are required to 4.11 pm meet. Mr. James Plaskitt (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): Why have these matters come to a head in the past I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this few days? It has happened almost certainly because of debate, having spent last week in Helmand with British the casualties that have been suffered, but, as has been forces at Camp Bastion and in Kandahar. I should like said, the issue of helicopters and protected vehicles has to put on record my thanks to our Ministry of Defence been around for a long time. As soon as the Taliban staff who facilitate such visits for Members of Parliament gave up face-to-face confrontation with our forces and and to all those involved in theatre who make time to embarked on the new tactic of improvised explosive brief us, which they do very extensively. devices, that same issue arose. A question for the Such visits are extremely worth while. I went on the Government is whether, when that happened, they principle of fact finding and learnt a huge amount. responded adequately with the matériel and the equipment Also, the timing was significant, because it was the week necessary to allow us to confront those tactics. when Operation Panther’s Claw was gathering momentum. There is another question for the Government, which Tragically, it was also a week of awful casualties and the debate has not properly answered. What is the losses, some of which we saw at first hand. We cannot strategy for co-ordinating the political, military, come back from such a visit and fail to be completely reconstruction and counter-narcotics policies? We have impressed by the professionalism, commitment and had a slightly semantic discussion about that, but yesterday determination of all our armed forces who are in theatre at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister and conducting those operations. the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) With the intensification of the operation now taking simply stated strategic objectives. Strategy is how one place and with the tragically increased casualty numbers, achieves those objectives—the means whereby they are it is inevitable that there will be, as there now is, increased co-ordinated. If it is true that the three senior members public questioning of that operation. When we pursue of the Cabinet with responsibility for those matters military activities in democracies, it is entirely right that meet only once a month, that is nothing like the sort of we should debate—and that we should have the right to co-ordination that is necessary. I say that because we are debate—the conflicts in which we are engaged. However, effectively at war, albeit not across Europe, as we were we need to do that with sensitivity about the impact that between 1939 and 1945, or, indeed, in Asia. However, it can have on those at the front undertaking those we are at war and if the elements are to be properly operations, while we comfortably debate their pros and knitted together to produce a benevolent outcome, much cons back here. It is inappropriate for us to engage in better co-ordination is required. straightforward political point scoring while soldiers’ We have hardly heard a mention in the past two and a lives are on the line, and while some are losing their lives half weeks of the policy on narcotics, yet that is key to and many others are sustaining life-changing injuries. the hearts and minds operation. If all one has to grow is We are entitled to debate and we should debate, but we the poppy seed and the profit of that may be taken away must do it in a responsible manner. and one lives in a subsistence economy, something else I want briefly to say something about equipment. It is must be provided. The counter-narcotics strategy is also not the main focus of my contribution, but the visit that the key to dealing with the corruption that is endemic in I undertook was an opportunity to pursue the issue in the present Government in Afghanistan. detail in conversation with commanders at the front line The hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle mentioned and with troops who are engaged in the conflict daily. Mr. Karzai, who will win in August. However, I was at No commander who briefed me and no soldiers to the Munich security conference earlier this year and whom I talked said that they felt that they were ill-equipped Richard Holbrooke’s disdain for Mr. Karzai and his for what we were asking them to do. Indeed, many said evident lack of confidence in him was manifest for all to that they felt that they had the most up-to-date and see. So when we talk about political stability and establishing sophisticated equipment to undertake their activities sound government, we ought to take account of the that they had ever had. Many soldiers said to me personalities who are available and not just the institutions. personally, “I’m better equipped than ever before.” We Public opinion in this country is finely balanced, but saw at first hand the sophisticated surveillance equipment unless there is clear evidence of some recognition by the that my hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Government of the position of the Army in Afghanistan Twigg) mentioned, which is doing fantastic work, and in particular, it could easily fracture, leaving us with the quality of the vehicles that the troops move around 525 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 526

[Mr. James Plaskitt] an opportunity for the Government here to readdress with the public the nature of the United Kingdom’s in. That needs to be balanced against other issues in the contribution to this multinational, UN-endorsed effort. current debate about whether the equipment is right. We could provide greater clarity about our military It is really important to understand, when discussing contribution. We could also do more to explain the equipment, that it is a function of what is happening on hearts and minds element of the strategy, which is the ground at any given time, and that that is never extremely important, in order to explain how the present going to be static. There are several operations taking military action will open the way for economic, social place in parallel at the same time, and there is shifting and political development that will permanently alter emphasis between different parts of the operations. the reality on the ground in Afghanistan and thus have Furthermore, conditions on the ground can change, an impact on our security here in the United Kingdom. sometimes very rapidly, as can the responses from the The question of timing is a difficult one. One commander enemy with whom we are engaging. We need to understand said to me: that the equipment issue is not a static one, and that, to “This is Afghanistan; it is not fast.” some extent, equipment is always going to struggle to On the other hand, there is clearly pressure on us to keep pace with the reality on the ground. It is also achieve irreversible momentum. We have the luxury of important to remember the shared nature of the equipment, being able to debate this issue while other people take and not simply consider what UK forces get from UK the action, but we also have an obligation to explain sources. We need to consider what all the forces can what is happening. The morale of the troops with access on a shared basis on the ground in response to whom I spent last week is very high, but they would the activities that they are being asked to undertake. begin to worry if they sensed that public support for I want to focus mainly on this point. In the light of their work was ebbing away— the changing nature of what is happening in Afghanistan and, tragically, of the increased losses, it is now incumbent Mr. Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman on the Government to explain even more clearly the has run out of time. overall context of the operation. The explanation is available, and the Government have published some 4.19 pm good documentation on it, but it is not yet comprehensively Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex) (Con): I would understood. Because of the increase in public questioning, like to associate myself particularly with the remarks of it is now time to increase the degree of explanation, in the right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife order to combat public uncertainty and to give support (Sir Menzies Campbell) and other colleagues who have to our forces who are undertaking this action. spoken powerfully on both sides of the House on this The answers are available, and we have heard some of very important matter. In common with the right hon. them during the course of the debate this afternoon, Member for Airdrie and Shotts (John Reid), a former but we are not yet setting them out clearly enough. The Secretary of State for Defence, my heart goes out to the questions break down into a number of different categories. families of the fallen and the families of all the soldiers, Many people are asking what is different this time—a airmen, members of the Navy and civilians serving in question asked not only by people in Afghanistan, but Afghanistan who are naturally extremely anxious at the by the public who are watching the operation. We need turn of events taking place in that country. to explain the relationship between what is happening Having said that, I regret having to say that the Prime in Afghanistan and what is happening in Pakistan. We Minister, who claims, rightly, the overall command of also need to spend more time discussing what is being this matter, has in my judgment acted in a thoroughly altered on the ground in order for our action to achieve casual way on this war. Since 2007, he has made just a lasting impact, and how the responsibility to achieve two statements to the House on the war in Afghanistan. it is being shared. That is not good enough, and I do not think this House We also need to have a discussion with the public has been kept anywhere near well enough informed. As about what will constitute success in this context. That colleagues such as the right hon. and learned Member is not an easy concept to grasp, because this is not a for North-East Fife and my right hon. Friend the conventional conflict. This is not about territorial gain, Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) argued or about repelling an invader of our own territory. This earlier, the co-ordination and overall arrangement of action involves a much more complex notion of what these matters has been absolutely disgraceful, and I may or may not constitute success. We need to be think people should be very angry about it. straightforward with the public and tell them that this is Whatever the sterile arguments—they were used on not an easy concept to grasp, and that success might Monday by the Prime Minister who was dissembling in have more to do with the absence of something awful a less than frank manner about the situation of our than with the existence of something that is visibly troops in Afghanistan—at the end of the day the success evident to all of us. of the operations in that country will all boil down to We shall have an opportunity to set that out how I one thing and one thing only: the men carrying out would like to see it. As we have been discussing, we these operations on the ground, those who support know that the US is leading a rethink on strategy at the them and those committed to providing a holistic approach. moment, which will have an impact on our deployment, I want to speak today on behalf of the soldiers—the as well as on other NATO deployments. We also know splendid, brave, long-suffering soldiers in the field, and that the elections in Afghanistan in August will create those who support them. I would like the House to something of a political watershed there, and that that recall the words of Lord Wavell, when he said that will have an impact on the future commitment of Afghan “in the last resort, the end of all military training, the settling of forces, police and civilians. Those two factors will create all policy, the ordering of all weaponry and all that goes into the 527 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 528 makings of the armed forces is that the deciding factor in battle into an inappropriate use of vehicles and tactical procedures will always be this. That sooner or later, Private so-and-so will, of that inevitably puts them at maximum, rather than his own free will and in the face of great danger, uncertainty and minimum, risk of casualties. chaos, have to advance to his front in the face of the enemy. If all that goes wrong, after all the training, the intensive preparation Let us be clear: the soldiers feel let down not by the and the provision of equipment and expenditure, the system has nation, but by the Government, and by a clearly weak failed.” and ineffective leadership in the Ministry of Defence. We in the House should be collectively ashamed that Well, we all know that it has not failed so far. The the finest army in the world is fighting in the most armed forces have never let us down, but I say to inhospitable, extreme and dangerous environment, under- the House that the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and resourced for an entirely valid and viable mission by a the Secretary of State for Defence—not the present Government whose actions in these matters too often one—are letting them down by failing adequately to seem largely beyond parody. respond to their requirements for resources for the hugely demanding tasks laid upon them. 4.27 pm For the young soldiers of today, as for their truly illustrious forebears, warfare continues to represent the Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): That was a disgraceful ultimate physical and moral challenge. In Afghanistan contribution. To suggest to those whose grief is raw, at this very moment, they are encountering a combination who are suffering, whose sobs we heard from the town of extraordinary danger and rapidly changing circumstances of Wootton Bassett, that there was some alternative, amid conditions of chaos and uncertainty. Their skills, some other way—that if another Government had been the skills and quality of their leadership, of their weaponry in power, or if there had been a different configuration and of their equipment are all being very severely here or there, their loved ones would not have died—is a tested. cruel and callous deception. To understand the Taliban, I suggest that we look at I believe that the Prime Minister’s shameful lack of the works of James Fergusson, who recently gave evidence urgency must become a thing of the past and that the to the Foreign Affairs Committee. He talked about his Government must realise that we are at war. If they conversation with a high-ranking member of the Taliban, really mean what they say about supporting our soldiers who said to him, “I have three children, aged two, five with whatever they need, the Government must send and six, but I never see them; I don’t want to see them, more troops to Helmand—at least the 2,000 requested because if I saw them I would start to love them, and in the theatre capability review agreed between the they would love me. The loss would be greater when I Ministry of Defence and the Pentagon, and then refused die.” James Fergusson said to the Taliban leader, “Do by the Prime Minister and the Treasury. The Prime you want to die?” He replied, “Of course I want to die. Minister should be deeply ashamed for such crass That is my dearest wish. I want to die like my father misjudgment, which denies commanders on the ground died against the Russians, like my great grandfather from holding hard-won objectives. died, and like his father died. They died fighting the I want to say a few words about equipment. While Ferengi in a jihad. I hope it is the way my sons die as everyone wants more, it is a fact that the soldiers’ well.” personal kits—rifle, helmet, boots and clothing—are It is a myth that we are fighting a war against a finite truly excellent; they have to carry an enormous amount force. The Taliban will renew themselves virtually infinitely. of weight in extreme heat and their toughness and Every death of a civilian—there have been thousands—is hardiness are beyond all admiration. a defeat for us and a recruiting agent for the Taliban. Before Helmand, I supported the invasion, as other There are clearly shortfalls in the vehicle fleet, and on Members did, in 2001. I thought at the time that there too many occasions soldiers are being forced to use was no chance of succeeding on drugs, and we have not them for missions, and in tactical situations, for which done so. Despite spending hundreds of millions of they were not designed. It is, for example, sad beyond pounds of taxpayers’ money, the drug production is the words that the late commanding officer of the 1st same as it was—it was higher a few years before that. Battalion the Welsh Guards had to hitch a lift on a There are areas that are now free of poppy growing, but logistics convoy in order to visit his own men on operations. they are used for growing cannabis. We have seen the The real problem is that there are simply not enough hugely corrupting drugs industry flowering there, with soldiers to carry out the mission set by the Government: the result that the price of heroin on the streets of to hold, clear and build; and further, to sustain a more London is cheaper than it has ever been. vigorous counter-insurgency that depends on agility and surprise. When the bullets stop firing, who will move in? It will be the Afghan police. Why do we delude ourselves If the Government do not put in more troops, the about that group? They are mostly Uzbeks, and there mission could fail. However, I want to make it plain to was evidence from Reuters last week, from the Helmand the House that the failure would most definitely not be village of Pankela, that the elders had got together and caused by a lack of guts and skill on the part of Tommy said, “If you move out and the Afghan police move in, Atkins with his rifle and bayonet. I want the Minister, we will join the Taliban.” The reason for that is not just the House and the country to understand that the that they are not paid, or that they are deeply corrupt. soldiers in Afghanistan do feel let down by a lack of According to evidence given to the Select Committee, helicopters and manpower, which obviously limits their 60 per cent. of them are addicted to heroin, and many abilities and opportunities for movement and assault. others are dealing in heroin in order to earn their As a result of those two factors, they cannot be as money. They routinely extort from the local population. tactically agile as they would like, and are thus forced The main objection in the village of Pankela, however, 529 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 530

[Paul Flynn] corruption. The warlords have become worse because Americans have poured billions of dollars into their was to the army’s use of “bacha bazi”, a horrible form pockets. of child sexual exploitation. Pre-pubescent boys are We have a number of possible options. One is to kidnapped, kept in the police compound and raped by continue as at present, in which case the misery will go the police. That is the ugly, awful reality of what we are on and the coffins will carry on coming home, and we offering to Afghanistan. might well reach the same point as the Americans did in A splendid book is about to be published. It is by Vietnam when popular opinion would no longer accept Malalai Joya, who was the youngest member of the the situation and the Americans ran away in panic from Afghan Parliament. She was suspended after attacking Saigon. We might leave in those circumstances. That the warlords in her first speech because she regarded would be the worst possibility, because our allies in them as being on a par with the Taliban. She has won Afghanistan who are working with us now would be many awards, and has said that human rights are worse slaughtered. The other, more hopeful, possibility is that in Karzai’s Afghanistan than they were under the Taliban. we fix an exit date, as Canada has already done. In that We should also consider President Karzai’s record. He case, we can look to having an exit strategy, and not to refused to pardon a young man who had been found victory—not to more helicopters or more troops, but to guilty of accessing a document about women’s human finding a way of extricating ourselves. It will happen in rights on the internet—that man is in jail for 20 years—but the end. There must be some deal that can be done. It is freely pardoned a gang of thugs who had gang-raped a not going to be easy, and we are not going to produce a 13-year-old girl. He has approved a policy of permitting, Hampshire in Afghanistan, but this is the only practical and making legal, marital rape. way of escaping from the terrible situation we are in at It is incredible that we do not see the reality. We owe present. the troops a debt of gratitude. We owe it to them to tell The American General McChrystal has talked about the truth here, rather than dealing with peripheral issues. two things that have never been mentioned before: the Many of the issues that we have talked about today will exit strategy and defeat. We must start believing in the make no difference. Helicopters might produce even possibility of defeat because, sadly, unless there is a worse casualties. There is no easy solution. The reason change of mind by all the parties in this House, and for our casualties in Helmand province is our presence political muscle behind new thinking— there. Before we went into Helmand in 2006, only seven Mr. Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman’s of our soldiers had died, five of them in accidents. Our time is up. presence there was a magnet, dragging in the Taliban. It multiplied their numbers, because we are the Ferengi, The next speaker in the debate will be subject to the and they want to fight a jihad against us. Unless we eight-minute limit, but in view of the substantial number know the basic reason why this is going on, we will fail of Members still seeking to catch my eye, thereafter the our troops in the battle. time limit for each speech will be reduced to six minutes— and I simply say in the spirit of encouragement to hon. Something that we have previously discussed at some and right hon. Members that if they are able to speak length—we have not discussed it today, but perhaps we even more briefly than that, that will aid the House as a should—is the staggering amount of aid that we have whole. poured into the country: $25 billion. The Select Committee was told that 20 per cent. of it might have reached its 4.36 pm intended recipients. For every British soldier who dies, Mr. James Arbuthnot (North-East Hampshire) (Con): there is a new millionaire in Kabul. Many of the new I shall do my best to stick to six minutes, Mr. Speaker. millionaires who grow rich on the drug trade, the corruption I profoundly respect the views of the hon. Member and the money that we have poured in are relatives of for Newport, West (Paul Flynn), but I also profoundly President Karzai, including his brother. disagree with them. He made the same points in relation Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Given the to Iraq, and I think that he was wrong in relation to hon. Gentleman’s passionate analysis, what does he Iraq. In Iraq, we have seen what is not at all a comfortable think the British Government and Army should do? country emerging out of darkness, and we have seen the success in transferring to local security people a job that Paul Flynn: There have been improvements in women’s was previously taken on by the Americans and the and girls’ education, but the truth is that, despite all the British. We have seen Iraqis taking a degree of pride aid that has been poured in, Afghanistan still has the from their success in reducing, although not eliminating, world’s third highest child mortality rate and second the corruption, violence, bombs and sectarianism in highest maternity mortality rate, because the country is that country. I believe that we ought to express the hope endemically corrupt. Our aims are not attainable. I that the same can be achieved in Afghanistan. Indeed, it believe that all the prospects are dreadful—awful. We is essential that we work towards that. can continue what we are doing now. We can pour in I agree with the hon. Member for Warwick and troops, which will mean more targets and more deaths. Leamington (Mr. Plaskitt) that the arguments need to It will be absolutely futile. It will make us good, as be better made and to be spread around in the pubs and politicians, but we are here, 1,000 miles away from the clubs of this country, because we are tending to lose the heat, suffering and danger of the battlefield. notion that our troops need to be in Afghanistan. I am We have a collective responsibility. We have deceived sure that they do need to be there, because of the ourselves, certainly since 2006, and we have given our instability of that general region and the fact that there soldiers an unattainable objective—several unattainable is a link between Pakistan and Afghanistan, and objectives. We cannot win on drugs, we cannot win on another direct link from Pakistan—and increasingly human rights, and we cannot do anything about the from Afghanistan—to those communities in this country. 531 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 532

We must also remember that Pakistan is nuclear-armed, 4.43 pm and the fact that there is now a total threat to this Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): It country as a result of the instability of that region is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for means that we have to continue with this battle and win North-East Hampshire (Mr. Arbuthnot), and I wish to it. The alternative of withdrawal is not one that we congratulate him on his Committee’s report. When it should contemplate. comes to equipment it always becomes very difficult for The general aims of the comprehensive approach are those not closely involved, because there are always very laudable, and I pay tribute to the Departments of several sides to the story. Helicopters have been discussed, Government, which never used to work together and and one thing that struck me when we flew down in have never liked the notion of doing so to the extent them on our visit to the area was how much they were that they are trying to do now. They are still struggling, resented by the local population—helicopters fly over particularly in Whitehall. On the ground, the comprehensive their houses, so they find them incredibly intrusive. So approach is much better appreciated and much better people will have to go on the ground and we need to be strived for than in Whitehall. There needs to be better realistic. training and better working together here, but overall I wish to say a little about what the end game is likely the comprehensive approach is the only way forward. to be, because one of a number of important comments I feel that it is absolutely essential to support this made today related to the inclusion of Afghanistan and mission in Afghanistan—the entire country needs to Pakistan in this. The Secretary of State indicated that support it—but support means certain things. It means greater co-operation is clearly taking place on the border, giving our armed forces and the other components of certainly on the one with Baluchestan. What is happening the comprehensive approach the equipment that they in Helmand reflects what is happening on the Pakistani need. More helicopters are needed in the region—it is side to make the border more secure. This will also be not just our armed forces that need them—but helicopters about the build-up of the Afghan national police and themselves are not enough. The Defence Committee’s army. It is clear that we have been much more successful report today brought out the fact that helicopters require with the army than with the police, but we should be manpower, training and support, so just producing careful about the words we use. When we were in helicopters will not solve the problem. Of those four Afghanistan it was clear that people there referred to things, manpower is the most under pressure at the their policemen as soldiers and they referred to their moment. We also need more uniform helicopters. There soldiers as warriors. This is not the kind of police force are lots of Chinooks of many different types, and the that we are used to—it is much tougher, and at the complication and expense of dealing with an imperfect moment it is still being recruited along tribal lines. Until and non-uniform fleet are extremely difficult for the there is a police force in Afghanistan that does not Ministry of Defence. We need better vehicles. I hope follow tribal lines, we will continue to have the sort of that others will talk about that, because some of the problems that have been described. vehicles in theatre are having to be withdrawn. We also Afghan warfare is very different. The history of the need a better, more up-to-date air bridge, so that our country shows that no outside force has ever succeeded troops do not have to wait in appalling conditions in in conquering it. What is different this time is that order to take advantage of their leave. So we need more foreign troops are there with the consent of the Government. and better equipment. Their writ may not travel far beyond the capital, but it is the beginning of a settlement. It will have to be seen in We also need people. Reference has been made to the two distinct phases. We need to be careful when we talk 2,000 troops that I understand were asked for in recent about the Taliban: there are Afghan Taliban, Pakistani weeks. This morning, I tried to get out of the Prime Taliban and central Asian Taliban, and then there is Minister whether that was true, but I did not manage it. al-Qaeda, and we are not entirely sure where they are The shadow Secretary of State got it exactly right; we from. There are also small pockets of 100 or so insurgents, need troops not only to take ground, but to hold the so we need to be careful about language. Even in ground that they have taken and to build on it. If we Helmand, when they talk about foreign Taliban, they have too few troops to hold and to build, we risk may mean Afghan Taliban from a different province. unnecessarily the lives of the soldiers who were used to We need a military presence that the Taliban—the take the ground. We need a significantly larger pool of insurgents, whoever they are—know will stay and fight, troops in our armed forces to be available to go, without not pack its bags and leave. Then will come the point at pressure, to Afghanistan. which we have to bring those people into the political The final thing that we need is the money to support process. The Afghan way of warfare does not mean this operation. On Monday, I asked the Secretary of winning on the battlefield, but by defection. What years State what the Chancellor of the Exchequer meant of history have taught Afghans is to wait and see which when he said that our armed forces would not be short is the winning side—and that is the side to join. That is of money. I was told that it was established by the how we have brought warlords into the process, and increase in the expected urgent operational requirements that is what the long-term strategy for our military money that was announced on that day that the Treasury presence should be. meant what it said. However, the UOR money for this We have to be very forceful on the military end, but year is capped at about £735 million, whereas last year’s negotiate to bring people into the process. The elections cap was at more than £1 billion. So, there has been a in the summer will be important in that, but we should decrease in that money, and that is not because the be careful about thinking that the elections mean democracy threats have reduced or because the urgency has reduced; per se. The voter registration and other processes will it is because the available money has reduced. I do not set the scene, but there is deep corruption in the country, think that that is the right way to treat our troops. and we should be honest about that. The corruption 533 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 534

[Ms Gisela Stuart] which I will not be able to treat and deaths could occur which could have been stopped. We are walking on a tightrope and from starts at the top, and the aid that comes in gets sliced all what it seems here are likely to fall unless drastic measures are the way through. However, that is better than the alternative, undertaken.” and one of the most encouraging changes in terms of That brave young man died in May. Government policy—I have visited three times in the We have also heard of the recent coroner’s report into past five years, and things have changed—was the DFID the death of Corporal Mark Wright. The coroner said White Paper, which made the clear commitment that that there were three main reasons for his death, two of the Foreign Office and the MOD would work much them being a lack of lighter helicopters fitted with a more closely together when it came to international aid. winch that could have pulled the troops away and the Certainly, with the role of the senior representative in administrative delay in sending a suitable helicopter. Helmand, Hugh Powell, who pulls together the international Ultimately, the only way to get our troops out is to effort with our Departments’ efforts, we are moving in arm and train the Afghan national army properly, but the right direction. the problem is that leaders are in short supply. Combat We must not give up. We must not say, “It’s so awful, units report shortages in about 40 or 50 per cent. of the there’s nothing we can do.” We owe it to our troops to equipment that they require, so things are not going pursue our strategy. These are the most crucial, and well in that regard, either. potentially most damaging, stages of the operation, and The hon. Member for Newport, West (Paul Flynn) we have to ensure that the casualties were sustained for spoke about the Taliban regrouping and about the a reason worth fighting for. flourishing heroin trade. He said that Britain was backing a Government full of corrupt practices, while too many 4.48 pm ordinary Afghans are not seeing any reconstruction at all. We need to look at the military objectives and the Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) (PC): immediate military strategies if we are to keep public Although I voted against the incursion into Afghanistan, opinion and the House informed. That is going ahead that is an irrelevance today. We owe our allegiance to now in Washington, and the same thing needs to happen the men and women who are in harm’s way. We owe it to here as well. Many military commanders, and the families them to support them fully, in every possible way, of front-line troops, are not convinced that the best including kit and so on. strategies are being pursued. That needs to be addressed I have heard it said that in warfare deaths are inevitable. very swiftly. That may be so, but the most disturbing and galling However, what the Prime Minister said this week is part of this current situation is that three quarters of surely an admission of the fact that the troops are not recent deaths, so I am told, were avoidable. Had the adequately equipped. Three quarters of the deaths in Government provided adequate kit and equipment for Afghanistan have happened because of roadside bombs. the military—sufficient helicopters and properly armoured It is not a new tactic: it was known and probably vehicles—many of these roadside deaths would not expected, so why are the heavy armoured vehicles being have occurred. ordered only now? How many more brave men and If that statistic is not bad enough, the situation is women have to die before the equipment is delivered? compounded by the lack of a clear military objective There have been loud calls to discontinue the use of and strategy in Afghanistan. On the one hand, the the Snatch vehicle in some operational theatres. Why is Prime Minister says that he wants to draw down troops it only now that the Prime Minister has announced this after the Afghan elections, but on the other, the military ordering of equipment? The same is true of helicopters. top brass say that they want an extra 2,000 troops. What I will not go into the sterile debate that we had earlier are we to make of those conflicting statements? this week, but it is a big issue. I have also heard it said that the conflict is about I was in Basra and Baghdad a few years ago and I bringing democracy to Afghanistan, but the country know that helicopters are much more effective than has never been a democracy. It has been a tribal society vehicles that have to travel on dangerous roads. We need for centuries and I do not think that it is possible to to concentrate, as the Americans are doing, on force impose a democratic system on it. protection. I hope that the UK will do likewise. We owe the troops a definite duty of care in every Commanders in the field protect their troops, and I way possible. The military say, “More boots on the hope that the Government will have drastic rethink of ground, more bodies in bags.” That may be crude, but their current strategy and objectives. They must keep that is how they talk. Some strategists argue that a surge this place—and, crucially, the public, informed. of new troops provides more of a target, and the lesson from Northern Ireland is that it is better to use more 4.54 pm helicopters. As has been noted, the Americans learned in Vietnam that multiple casualties turned public opinion John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): As a against them, and I hope that we never reach that stage. parent, I find it extremely distressing to see photographs Force protection equals duty of care to soldiers. The of the young men who have died in the conflict in diary of a young platoon commander in the Welsh Afghanistan. Many are so young: I find it hard to come Guards was published recently. Lieutenant Mark Evison, to terms with the death of an 18-year-old barely out of 26, wrote: school. “I have a lack of radios, water, food and medical equipment. Parents and families have taken solace from the fact This, with manpower, is what these missions lack. It is disgraceful that their sons have given their lives courageously in the to send a platoon to a very dangerous area with two weeks’ water service of this country, and I share that view wholeheartedly. and food and one team medics’ pack. Injuries will be sustained When those young men signed up for military service, 535 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 536 they signed up to the compact under which they pledged but, as has been explained today, that Government is their lives to the service of this country. However, there corrupt and considered illegitimate even by their own are two sides to that compact; we are the other side. We people—it is a Government of warlords oppressing pledge to do all that we can to keep them out of harm’s their own people. As my hon. Member for Newport, way, and to ensure that they are treated properly when West (Paul Flynn) said, the argument about the oppression injured and that their families are cherished if they of women has been undermined by women in Afghanistan sacrifice their lives. Many statements have been made demonstrating against oppression that they say has today about the way in which we are fulfilling that actually been worse than under the Taliban. compact, and it is important that the Government We need to address this tragedy: the lives being lost, consider those messages seriously. the families being destroyed, the immense human suffering. Another element of that compact is that we do not At some stage, the Government will have to face up to send our young men into unnecessary and ill-judged the need to negotiate a withdrawal. We need to request wars that cannot be won. I believe that the Government that other regional powers come to our aid in negotiating have failed that critical element of the military compact. with all parties, including the Taliban, a constitutional This is an unnecessary and ill-judged war that cannot settlement for the long-term future of Afghanistan. The be won. After eight years, it is becoming increasingly strategy must involve conflict resolution, bring people difficult to answer the question, “Why do we need this together, and recognise their grievances and why they war?” It was a reaction to 9/11, started with a failed have taken up arms, as they see it, to protect their own bombing campaign and led inevitably to invasion. The country.It is also about developing an alternative terrorism objective was to destroy al-Qaeda, but inevitably when strategy involving intelligence, policing and ensuring the bombing strategy failed and we moved to invasion, respect for the grievances that lead people to take up we discovered what leaders of the British empire discovered terrorist activity. The sooner we come to terms with in the 19th century and what the Russian’s discovered in that, the sooner we can end the suffering of the British the 20th century—that it is impossible to fight a successful and Afghani families who have been drawn into this war in this terrain. I must add that all those invasions tragic and desperate war. claimed the consent of the people. I believe that the strategy of destroying al-Qaeda flies 4.59 pm in the face of all that we know and understand about Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Government have modern terrorism, which does not need a fixed territorial a lot more to do to win the battle of hearts and minds, base. As we have discovered, modern-day terrorists can not just in Afghanistan, but in this country. I am be based as much in Leeds as in the mountains of pleased to say that in 30 minutes’ time, in Colchester, Afghanistan itself. The attempts to evict al-Qaeda from the commander of 16 Air Assault Brigade, Brigadier Afghanistan have simply led to its wider dispersal across Chiswell, will be doing just that. He will have a briefing Pakistan, Somalia and terrorist cells deeper into western with more than 100 leading members of the local Europe. If the war aim was to destroy or remove the community, in what is being billed as a “Post Afghanistan Taliban because they harbour al-Qaeda, it completely Operational Presentation”. That is where I would be if underestimated, as hon. Members have said, the complexity it was not for this debate. of the relationships within the Taliban and the scale and depth of support for them in the region, both in Aspects of this debate will be fed back to our troops Afghanistan and Pakistan. in Afghanistan, particularly in Helmand province. Aspects of it will also be picked up by the families of those If the objective of the war was to tackle terrorism serving there, those who have served there and, particularly, associated with al-Qaeda, a more effective alternative the families of those who have lost loved ones. This time would have been to focus on states’ policing role in last year, as the Secretary of State for Defence will gaining intelligence on terrorist organisations and activities recall, it was soldiers from 16 Air Assault Brigade who and in intervening to prevent terrorist strikes. As important were taking the brunt and losing lives. I visited Afghanistan is to negotiate with elements that might be attracted to twice last year, and I suspect that the morale there today support or harbour terrorists, to divide them wherever is as it was a year ago—very upbeat, with people possible and to ensure that we gain some purchase on determined to get on with the job. negotiating opportunities with the Taliban. Of course, We in this country admire that professionalism. We an effective anti-terrorist strategy must ensure that no sent troops to Afghanistan because it is in the interests action is taken that mobilises support for terrorism, and of the civilised world that there is success there. I am must win the hearts and minds of potential recruits by delighted to say that tomorrow, to show that respect, addressing grievances. Far from addressing such a strategy, the honorary freedom of the borough of Colchester the war in Afghanistan is using resources on military will be bestowed on 16 Air Assault Brigade. I have every action that should be used in the policing and prevention confidence that for the fourth time in 12 months, the of terrorism. Far from isolating the Taliban, it has High street will be packed with thousands of local spread their influence into Pakistan, and far from dividing people. Sadly, two of the occasions on which that them, it has united Taliban elements into a cohesive respect was shown were military funerals, but there was fighting force. Far from winning hearts and minds, the an upbeat mood at the “welcome home” parade. On war, as in Iraq, has become a rallying symbol for Saturday, the Colchester military festival will take place, terrorist recruitment. and in excess of 20,000 people are expected. That is all A tragedy is being played out in Afghanistan, and in part and parcel of winning hearts and minds in this our society too. The argument that we are tackling the country. Although I voted against the Iraq war, the drugs problem has been undermined today. Afghanistan Government are absolutely right in what they are is now the drug capital of the world. There is the doing in Afghanistan, and I support them 100 per cent. argument that we are installing a democratic Government, in that. 537 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 538

[Bob Russell] but the Army showed tremendous care and attention to detail in honouring the lives of those young men. Owing That said, I challenged the Prime Minister on a point to the loss of life, it is essential that we continue to on Monday. I heard the Foreign Secretary say today question our role in Afghanistan to be absolutely sure that there are 51 countries deployed in Afghanistan. that we are doing the right thing. It is right to question, What is not said is how few European countries have but it would be dreadfully wrong to conclude that we deployed troops to southern Afghanistan. Certainly should not be in Afghanistan. It would be an absolute none of the major European countries—“major” in tragedy for us to walk out and abandon the people of terms of population and the size of their armed forces— Afghanistan at this point, because I learned, and received have done so. If possible, we need to get our European very up-to-date information suggesting that, things are allies on board more. moving forward positively in a number of areas. We will not go into the matter of helicopters—we We have to remember that, in a number of ways, have had that debate—but I urge the Secretary of State Afghanistan is completely rebuilding not only its state for Defence to look into getting more unmanned aerial but local government and every single service imaginable, vehicles. I am absolutely convinced that if we deployed so it has a long way to go. The information on the more of them, our troops would be able to see what is elections showed that registration was going better than happening, and hopefully could deal with some ambushes had previously been thought, and there is hope that the before they happen. Please, Secretary of State, let us result can be taken as the legitimate voice of the people. have a lot more UAVs. We will need to see whether that is the case, but the I believe that the Afghan people do, in the main, people in Kabul and in the provinces were hopeful. support what is going on. I have met representatives of There were also signs that the Afghan national army the Helmand provincial council, including two lady is improving. It has been able to take over and plan council members who would never be allowed to hold some operations itself, and to carry them out with office if the Taliban ran the country, and that is an support from the international forces. That is seen as a important point. move in the right direction. Absolutely everyone, whether I said that I was sure that messages from this debate military personnel, politicians or civil servants, talked will find their way to Afghanistan, but messages come about the need for better governance at all levels, from back from the front line to families, too. Two days ago, I the Cabinet to provincial councils and community received a letter from a mother; I shall end with a quote development councils. In Kabul, there was an from it, because I find it poignant, and because it acknowledgement that the Cabinet around President confirms what I say about winning hearts and minds: Karzai was probably the best that there has ever been, “Dear Mr Russell, so there was some concern about what would happen post-elections in August. Nevertheless, the fact that a I hope you won’t mind me writing to you, but before a fall put an end to a planned visit to Colchester, I intended to lay flowers & wider group of people in Afghanistan now has the a card at the garrison & somehow try to thank the people of the capacity to carry out ministerial roles is a good thing. town for their support & generosity. I received quite a lot of evidence from DFID about Why, I guess you are asking yourself? Well, last year my son, the effect of our aid. A lot of British Government aid along with fourteen other Aussie soldiers, had the honour of goes, quite rightly in my view, to support the Afghan training and serving alongside the 7 paras RHA, where they were Government and, in particular, to pay the salaries of later deployed together in Helmand. teachers, the police and other Government officials, On their return, the boys told us of the kindness and generosity because if Afghanistan is to have an independent future, shown to them, the most welcomed food parcels, cards and good it must have a properly functioning state that is seen to wishes whilst in Colchester and Afghanistan. be legitimate by most of the population. It is absolutely So, from a group of Australian mums, we would like to extend essential that aid should support the state institutions our heartfelt thanks and eternal gratitude for not forgetting ‘our as well as the local people. boys’ but including them in your thoughts during the harrowing months. As soon as we came out of the airport in Kabul, we With kindest regards to you and the wonderful people of saw lots of girls in their uniforms going to school. We Colchester. have to make sure that here in the Chamber we give a Maureen Cohen (Mrs.)” balanced view about what is going on: not all girls are That letter comes from New South Wales. going to school, and they cannot go to school everywhere, but there has been a very big improvement on what was happening under the Taliban. It was amazing that we 5.5 pm were able to have a meeting with the Sangin district Dr. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): governor, some of his officials, the police, representatives I returned this morning from Afghanistan, having in from the security forces and, critically, the provincial the past few days visited Camp Bastion, Kandahar, reconstruction team, which talked about how to improve Lashkar Gah, Sangin, Kabul and a number of DFID- the local clinic. supported projects, and having met key politicians, We should not take those advances for granted; we including Governor Mangal in Helmand and the district need to pay tribute to our armed forces for helping governor in Sangin. In the short time available to me, I move forward the situation in Afghanistan, where some shall not be able to do justice to all the information that thought can now be given to governance. We also have I gathered. to consider what still needs to be improved. We need to I also had the tremendous privilege of being able to look particularly at the role of the United Nations and attend the repatriation service at Camp Bastion for the how there is still not enough co-ordination of the whole eight soldiers who were killed. As the House might aid effort, to get maximum benefit for the people of know, it was an extremely moving and very sad occasion, Afghanistan. 539 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 540

5.11 pm have some simplification and real co-ordination. I hope that General McChrystal might be able to impose some Mr. John Horam (Orpington) (Con): I, too, had the degree of greater co-ordination. However, I am afraid privilege of visiting Helmand province recently, and I that the Americans are part of the problem because— strongly echo what the hon. Member for City of Durham according to the UN commissioner—they do not (Dr. Blackman-Woods) has just said about the sufficiently tell other people what they are doing and professionalism, commitment and bravery—and, indeed, what is happening. hope—of the troops there. The fact is that there is greater hope in the country at the moment. Finally, over the past four or five years there has been mission creep. Other aspects have developed, absolutely First, there has been the US surge—the extra American desirable as they may be. The hon. Member for City of troops supporting our British troops contribute enormously Durham referred to the young women in the streets of to a sensible arrangement between the forces. Secondly, Kabul going to and from school in their hundreds. there has been a significant change in the attitude of the One’s heart leaps at that wonderful, marvellous sight, Pakistani army, Government and people. We therefore but the fact is that we are not ultimately there for that have the opportunity, for the first time in eight years, of reason. We are there to pursue the Taliban and arrive at having what is in effect a pincer movement, from the a point where we can withdraw because the Afghan north in Afghanistan and the south in Pakistan, against Government, army, police and justice system are able to the Taliban troops who are along the border and the cope with the Taliban and the threat from al-Qaeda. Durand line. The situation is definitely hopeful, and we That is why we must now, and at all times, concentrate should not underplay that. on security and on helping our troops. In the short time available, I want to move on to Foreign and Commonwealth Office issues rather than military issues, because I have concerns about the FCO. 5.16 pm First, I was dismayed to learn at a recent briefing by the Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): I would like to interdepartmental committee on policy on Afghanistan associate myself with the powerfully and eloquently and Pakistan that there is no Pashto speaker at the expressed remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for Foreign and Commonwealth Office or Department for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Soames) about the families of our International Development in the area and only two armed services, and indeed all those who serve in our Pashto speakers in the military in the area. armed services. Once upon a time—perhaps in the days of the Malakand The answer that I received to my question in Monday’s field force, about which Churchill wrote a book—the Defence questions from the Minister for the Armed Foreign Office could produce people who could speak Forces convinced me that it will be a miracle if we ever Pashto out of the top of its head, but the fact is that win the war in Afghanistan. It could so easily end in yet there are none now. Why is that the situation after eight another military defeat, perhaps not like in Iraq, where years? I hope that the Defence Secretary will pass on we were virtually shown the door, but through the that concern to his colleagues in the Foreign Office. potential—I stress that word—collapse of support in There is a real problem; obviously, there has to be the United Kingdom as more and more body bags are dialogue between the troops and DFID and FCO returned home and people ask why. I believe that that representatives and the local Afghan people. That should question has been answered very adequately several involve native speakers as far as possible. We know what times in this debate, so I do not intend to repeat the happened in Iraq: it is very difficult to work all the time reasons. through interpreters. My question to the Minister was: My second point is about continuity of personnel. “Is not one of the greatest threats to the security of Afghanistan The contracts are negotiated individually by the FCO, the incompetence and abject failure of reconstruction projects but they often last only six months, and for those six which are imposing additional intolerable burdens on our security months people work six weeks on and two weeks off. forces?” That means that one person may be doing one and a He responded: half jobs—not only their own job, but half of somebody “Health centres are open, schools have been rebuilt and girls else’s as well. There is therefore a very short time for are at school in Afghanistan today, and that simply was not the people to get experience. Furthermore, because of the case in 2001. Yes, we face significant challenges, but I think that difficulties of the situation, more mature officials with hon. Members understate the progress we are making if they deny families do not want to go to the country. The people on that reality.”—[Official Report, 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 19.] the ground are young, inexperienced, do not speak the The reality is that both the ministry and the military are language and are there for only a short time. Is that a spinning like mad, making out that the United Kingdom sensible way to show our commitment to a foreign is winning, just as they did when we were in Iraq, when policy that is so decisive and such a priority in the in fact we are losing. The military and politicians alike Foreign and Commonwealth Office? I suggest not. blame the Government for underfunding defence, but Thirdly, I want to return to a point mentioned by my when one considers the expense and waste in what can right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks only be described as some disastrous procurement decisions, (Mr. Hague). When I was in Afghanistan only two it is enough to make one weep. months ago, the UN commissioner was in despair about Three ministries are involved in Afghanistan—the co-operation between the various organisations and Foreign Office, the Department for International national bodies: the European Union, the Americans, Development and the Ministry of Defence—and they NATO and so forth. There are so many different people appear to be failing to work together. Indeed, that must there, and so many acronyms that one has to deal with, be the case if the three Secretaries of State have only that the situation is fantastically complicated. We must one meeting a month. I can only question how security 541 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 542

[Ann Winterton] Government Departments here in Whitehall. It has become axiomatic that Whitehall is not on a war footing, is to be achieved by the provision of health centres and as it should be. I agree with what my hon. Friend the schools—which will, in any case, be provided only in the Member for Orpington (Mr. Horam) said about the town areas, not in the countryside. Health centres and complexity that we have created for ourselves, particularly schools are very desirable, but the first priority should between the EU and NATO. Everybody knows that surely be security so that people can go about their daily that arrangement does not work and has to be sorted lives feeling relatively safe. out on the ground in spite of institutional conflicts. Yet another example of a total waste of money is the That underlines the fact that, although I have the theme park with the Ferris wheel. Who can have allowed greatest respect for the right hon. Member for Airdrie such a stupid decision to have been made, at not and Shotts (John Reid), the original deployment on inconsiderable expense? Is the international community Operation Herrick IV in 2006 will prove to be one of expected to pay the staff and running costs for ever? the most ill-judged and ill-conceived military deployments Unless the economy in Afghanistan is developed with of modern decades. That is not because of what he said local people playing a full part, it will most certainly or did not say at the time, but it is widely known and has have to continue to do so. Coupled with that, the desire been confirmed on the public record to the Defence to turn the fragmented tribal nation that is Afghanistan Committee by Brigadier Ed Butler that the whole operation into a democracy greater than the one that we experience was artificially capped by the Treasury at 3,150 men and here in the United Kingdom is surely a mission beyond a cost of £1.5 billion, a sum that was meant to last over reality, not least because of the high levels of corruption, three years. That initial strategy was quickly diverted by including at the highest level in government. political pressures into the platoon house strategy and The international security assistance force and Afghan into defending far too many forward operating bases national army forces can hold the cities and towns—some with far too few troops and—the ubiquitous subject—far only just—but the countryside can never be held in the too few helicopters. foreseeable future while the rural population continue to be bombed and shot at. They have precious few John Reid: I, too, stand in great admiration of Ed Butler benefits and certainly no peace or security, and for for his courage and skills, and for the kind words that he many years ahead the Taliban will be prepared to said about me to the Committee, but on this one he is evaporate from and reappear at will in that community, wrong. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the force from which they are of course indistinguishable to configuration was given to us by the chiefs of staff. My non-Afghans. job was to ensure that we got the money necessary for One way in which the hearts and minds of the rural the configuration that they requested. He may say in population could be won is through the creation of retrospect that they got it wrong, but I can assure him good communications—in other words, a road and that that configuration was not cut, limited or reduced bridge network that would allow the movement of by the Treasury. goods and thereby encourage trading and the development of markets and businesses. That, in turn, would enhance Mr. Jenkin: I have to accept the assurance that the stability, because people have a vested interest in peace right hon. Gentleman has given, even though we have and security. conflicting testimony. However, we have wonderful armed If one studies the history of any nation, one sees that forces in this country, who tend to put the best complexion the greatest progress comes about when there are boom on what they are being asked to do; they tend to give the times, with the population in work, fed and housed. A optimistic view. I have an eye-witness account of the good communications and transport infrastructure is final Cabinet Committee meeting that signed off the an essential element of that. Schools and hospitals deployment. A row was expected, but it never took follow when a profitable business base has been developed place. We know that the deployment was driven ultimately to support those ventures in both rural areas and towns. by the desire to showcase Helmand as the British province We are surely putting the cart before the horse by not that would lead the way as an example to the rest of focusing on construction projects, which would bring in Afghanistan. That has lamentably not been the case. We their wake enhanced security. are finding ourselves in an Iraq situation, whereby we depend on American reinforcements to bail us out of Dr. Blackman-Woods: Will the hon. Lady give way? circumstances, which we have neither the capacity nor the military will to pursue on our own. Ann Winterton: I will not if the hon. Lady does not We need to be realistic about the way in which the mind, because of the time. campaign is developing. Between September and December If ISAF shows no confidence in the inadequate road 2007, there were 75 improvised explosive device attacks network and have to use off-road vehicles, what signal on NATO forces. In the same period the next year, there does that send to the Afghan national army, the police were 180 such attacks. This year, there were 361 attacks and civilians, and the— in March, 407 in April, 465 in May and 736 in June. The dramatic rise in casualties was inevitable in those Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. circumstances. I respect those who say that a rise in casualties was inevitable, given that there is currently a big push forward, which is being resisted. 5.22 pm However, we are in the early stages of a new Afghan Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): I agree with strategy. President Obama, for good or ill, has decided much of what the hon. Member for Congleton (Ann to make Afghanistan rather than Iraq his political Winterton) said about the lack of co-ordination between priority. I believe that that is directed more by electoral 543 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 544 and politically correct UN-sanctioned considerations The Government must wake up and understand, if rather than a more realistic campaign. It became clear they believe in this mantra of “clear, hold and build”, to me as soon as I rejoined the Select Committee in that at the moment all we are doing is clearing and a 2006 that the problems in Iraq would be far easier to little bit of holding. However, absolutely no building resolve and that Afghanistan would be a much harder will take place if the general in Kandahar in charge of nut to crack. As the hon. Member for City of Durham regional command south is not aware of what the (Dr. Blackman-Woods) said, we are still trying to turn reconstruction plan is. [Interruption.] I see the Secretary Afghanistan into a fully functioning state. That is a tall of State grimacing. I invite him to intervene and say order for a country that has hardly ever been such—certainly what the plan is. Tell us what is going on. He cannot. not in living memory. At least Iraq had been a country and feels like a nation. Afghanistan is made up of many Mr. Bob Ainsworth: If the hon. Gentleman is trying nations, which have historically been at war with each to suggest that there is nothing going in behind the other. military advance in Babaji, he is talking nonsense. However, we have a new strategy under General McChrystal of primarily defending civilians and putting Mr. Ellwood: If the Secretary of State has an idea of in far more troops, but it is too soon to say what will what is going on, he should inform his troops, because happen. I find myself—somewhat uncomfortably—agreeing they do not know. That is what they told us—that is with the right hon. Member for Oldham, West and exactly what happened. Royton (Mr. Meacher) and the hon. Member for Hayes Let us look at the figures. Our MOD budget for and Harlington (John McDonnell), who start from a Afghanistan is £2.7 billion, while the DFID budget is completely different premise from me. I fear that their £207 million—these are 2008 figures. The difference is pessimism may be vindicated, but it is too soon for the almost tenfold. There is no way that we can go in and House to decide or form a judgment about whether the clear and hold and then expect to build if there is a new McChrystal strategy will succeed. However, we will tenfold difference between what we are spending on know in a few short months—soon after the elections in reconstruction and development and what we are spending August and by the time the House sits again in the on security. That money comes from DFID’s budget of autumn. £7 billion, but that is aside from the myriad other funds that go into Afghanistan, through the EU, the United At that time, neither the House nor Ministers should States Agency for International Development, the World depend on yet more military advice—it is not right just Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Vital to ask for more military advice until a politically convenient co-ordination is required, which needs to be tied in with answer is given. The politicians must take responsibility what we are doing on the ground, so that we have a plan for a proper judgment call on whether it is worth when the bullets stop flying in places such as Babaji. continuing to pursue a strategy that already appears to be in some trouble. Perhaps we will need to revert to a The other aspect that needs to be underlined is the much more limited objective. Perhaps the offensive will importance of the Afghan national army. Training is buy us the space in which to develop a much more progressing, but as my right hon. Friend the Member limited strategy. We will know in a few short months the for Witney (Mr. Cameron) said two days ago, only 8 per judgments that we are required to make. cent. of the Afghan armed forces are based in Helmand, which compares with the fact that 40 per cent. of the fighting in Afghanistan is taking place in that province. 5.29 pm Why are the Afghans not doing more? My right hon. Friend made that point, and by the next day the Prime Mr. Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con): It is Minister was on the front page of The Guardian claiming a pleasure to help to conclude this debate. However, I to be demanding that President Karzai send in more am sad that it has taken the number of deaths that it has troops. I am glad that the Prime Minister is waking up for the Government to recognise the importance of to the cause, but it is a shame that he cannot admit having these debates. We are at war, and we should have where he got the information from. these debates on a quarterly basis, rather than being There is no time to focus on the economic issues; I forced to have them in this manner. would just like to stress how useful it would be to If any Member wants to get an idea of how committed complete a 50-km railway line from Spin Boldak to our troops are, they should go to RAF Brize Norton Kandahar. That would allow markets to develop and just before the take-off of one of the TriStars that take allow people to move away from the poppy trade. our valiant troops out to Afghanistan and see the worry I would like to end on a tribute to a friend and Army and the anxiety on the faces of their families as they colleague, Colonel Rupert Thorneloe. I have just come give them their final embraces before saying goodbye to from his funeral. He was riding in the front passenger those departing soldiers who are doing such a brave job seat of a Viking on 1 July and was killed instantly by an for Great Britain. IED, along with Trooper Joshua Hammond. Colonel I have just come back from Afghanistan, where I got Thorneloe wanted to see the lay of the land, but there a first-hand overview of what is happening in Operation were no helicopters, so he had to jump on a convoy that Panther’s Claw. Again, I underline the bravery of our was taking “replen” to the 2nd Battalion. He leaves troops who are committed out there. My question was: behind Sally, his wife, and Hannah and Sophie, his two what happens when the bullets stop flying? What happens daughters. when the Babaji area is cleared? Not one senior officer I highlight Rupert Thorneloe not because he is an had any idea what the plan was to take over, reconstruct, officer, but because he was a friend. We met at Sandhurst build and help with local governance. That is absolutely and have been friends since. It is a sombre occasion to appalling. hear the names of the fallen read out at Prime Minister’s 545 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 546

[Mr. Ellwood] We are in Afghanistan primarily for reasons of our national security. It has been pointed out frequently questions, but it is now a regular event. The reading out and correctly in this debate that Afghanistan was the of the names of fallen Britons in the battles of Afghanistan place where the 9/11 attacks were hatched and planned, is a moving ritual, but there is an emotional distance for and it would again be a place where that could happen, us here, where we can secure ourselves away from the were we not to deny the space to those who did that horror that a family has to go through when confronted planning. That is why we are there. There are many with the news, either on television or in the Chamber, other laudable aims, some of which have been discussed that someone has died. We feel for that family here—for this afternoon. It is wonderful when we can get Afghan their loss and their emptiness—but unless we know the girls back into school, and when we see the extension of person or the family personally, we choose to move on, human rights, but we are primarily there for reasons of perhaps deliberately, in order not to dwell on the national security. We need to remind the public of that circumstances or the tragic consequences for those who if we are to maintain public support and the necessary have to live with the memories. resilience to see this conflict through. More than 50 regimental colours and battle honours It is sometimes difficult for us to express what we line the walls of the Guards chapel at Wellington barracks. mean by winning in Afghanistan, but it is easy to They carry the scars of hundreds of years of campaigns. describe what we mean by losing. Were we to lose, and Each one is weathered and faded, hanging motionless to be forced out of Afghanistan against our will, it but shouting out a thousand stories of bravery by the would be a shot in the arm for every jihadist globally. It soldiers who followed it into battle. They served as a would send out the signal that we did not have the fitting backdrop to the brand new Union Jack that moral fortitude to see through what we believe to be a covered Colonel Rupert Thorneloe’s coffin, which was national security emergency. It would suggest that NATO, carried by eight Guardsmen in complete silence, other in its first great challenge since the end of the cold war, than the sound of their boots marching in step. And so did not have what it takes to see a difficult challenge tributes were paid, a life was celebrated and a death through. mourned. He was a brave soldier, and a quiet, intelligent The countries that have rightly been identified today and compassionate man. He was devoted to his wife, as not pulling their weight and not engaging in proper Sally, and to his daughters, Hannah and Sophie. burden sharing in Afghanistan might like to reflect on Having known Rupert Thorneloe, I have dwelt on his what the collapse of NATO would mean. Those countries death, and consequently on the sacrifices that he and that have failed to make the 2 per cent. of GDP cut in others have made. I have made it my business to try to respect of their defence spending might want to reflect understand what is happening in Afghanistan, which is on the effect that a world with an isolationist United not so much a nation as a land mass occupied by an States might have on their security. I hope that those in incredible mixture of cultures, ideas, languages and many capitals—not least the capitals of the European peoples who have rarely been united in the past 1,000 NATO member states—are reflecting on what life might years other than when forced to come together to fend look like if NATO were to start to fall apart. off an aggressor on their own land. When it comes to what we mean by winning, we have I urge the Prime Minister to rethink our objectives in to stand back and recognise that this is a geopolitical Afghanistan and what we are trying to achieve there, struggle. The reason why we can define what we mean and to provide all the support and resources necessary by winning is that we want to see a stable Afghanistan, not only to provide security but to enable the Afghans able to manage its own internal and external security to to stand on their own feet and finally to allow our a degree that stops interference from outside powers troops to come home. and allows the country to resist the terror bases and the training camps that were there before. That is what success means in Afghanistan. We are not trying to 5.36 pm apply, or we should not be trying to apply, a Jeffersonian democracy or a western European ethos to a broken Dr. Liam Fox (Woodspring) (Con): I am confident in 13th century state—and certainly not within a decade. saying that, for all of us in this House, the sight of Those are unrealistic aims that are likely only to disappoint flag-draped coffins carrying those who have died in the public opinion in the UK and to frustrate those in service of their country back to our shores is a reminder Afghanistan who are finding it difficult to build on the that the death of every serviceman and servicewoman is ground. a personal tragedy that leaves a permanent hole in the What we need to see, as has been regularly pointed lives of those who loved them. Likewise, every limb lost out in this debate, is a strengthening of the Afghan and every disabling injury represents a life changed for national army, a nurturing and then a strengthening of ever. It is not least because of these sacrifices that we the Afghan national police and the development of a have a duty to ensure at all times that we, the politicians, rule of law in which there is some semblance of the fact get the policy right. that the governing and the governed are being treated in My right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, a similar way. That should eventually lead to the concept Yorks (Mr. Hague) began this debate by talking about of rights, which will be necessary if we are to see any the fact that we are in Afghanistan out of necessity, not sort of democratic structure in the future. choice. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston Of course no one believes that we can have a purely (Ms Stuart) reminded us that we are there as a legal military victory in Afghanistan. As has been pointed requirement as part of our treaty obligations when out, we will have to deal with those who are reconcilable, article 5 of the NATO treaty has been invoked. That is even from among those who may have fought against us not pointed out often enough when we discuss Afghanistan. in the past, and we may have to recognise that some will 547 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 548 be irreconcilable—and the only way to deal with them Government coming forward, even if it had to be in will be in a military fashion. Much as we would like closed session, to enable Parliament to know exactly everybody to be reasonable, we need to recognise that what was happening. some will be utterly unreasonable; they have chosen to confront us, so we will have no option but to confront My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Sussex them in due course. (Mr. Soames) pointed out that the Prime Minister has behaved, at best, in a very casual manner when it comes One aspect that has moved on, and which is enormously to keeping the House involved. As my right hon. and positive in comparison with the position in some of our learned Friend the Member for Kensington and Chelsea previous debates, is that we now recognise that Afghanistan (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) said, there is an erosion of trust and Pakistan have to be dealt with as a single entity—a between Ministers and the public, and Ministers and single issue. From the Foreign Secretary’s speech onwards the military, which is extremely unhealthy. today, there has been a realisation in the House that that is where we need to go. We must give Pakistan There is no doubt that the personal equipment that every support we possibly can financially, politically our armed forces are getting is immensely improved. If and militarily, because a collapse in Pakistan would one talks to soldiers on the ground, they will say that make what we want to see in the region utterly impossible. their personal kit is much better than they have had If we think we have problems with a broken state such before. That is to be welcomed—a lot of it came late in as Afghanistan, we should try a broken Pakistan nuclearly the day, but it is welcome that it is there. However, we armed and with a vastly greater population. still have a problem with armoured vehicles and helicopters, Pakistan already has deep-rooted political problems which are related issues. There is no way to guarantee and very deep-seated economic problems. It has problems the safety of our forces in a conflict zone—the public with its relationship with India—the situation is still know that we cannot fight wars without casualties and very tense—which causes the country to keep a large fatalities, but they expect us to minimise the risk. Of proportion of its armed forces facing in that direction. course, helicopters are not a panacea—they are vulnerable Now we are asking Pakistan to do more in the north-west, themselves—but we must give our commanders the which is a tall order. Other countries in the region and option of moving our men more by air, and not simply traditional allies of Pakistan should also ask what they depending on movements by road, which signal to the can do to help on that particular front. Taliban what is coming, and make our forces more vulnerable. When we send our forces to war, we have two basic duties to fulfil. One is that we have to do everything Time and again in recent days, we have pointed out possible to guarantee the success of the mission; and that the cut to the helicopter budget of £1.4 billion in secondly, we have to do everything possible to minimise 2004, in the middle of two wars, was a catastrophic the risk to our armed forces in carrying out that mission. decision. The Government were warned about the We need to have a clear strategy, as my right hon. consequences, did not do anything to deal with the Friend the shadow Foreign Secretary mentioned at the matter and are now playing catch-up. Worse, instead of outset, yet we sometimes have a lack of clarity about admitting the mistakes, they are treating us to word what it is that NATO, the UN, the US or Afghanistan games and distorting statistics. I sometimes wonder are trying to do. It is sometimes not a question of whether the Prime Minister has a pathological inability whether we have a strategy, but of whether we have too to admit that mistakes have been made. When he talked many of them and whether they are, in fact, compatible about a 60 per cent. increase in helicopter capacity over with one other. two years, he failed to point out that since we deployed properly to Helmand three years ago the number of We also need a clear command structure. I think that troops has increased by 100 per cent. It does not take a the structure is improving, but it has been a problem in genius to do the maths and work out what that means. recent years. We need co-ordination between Government Does he think that that fools anyone? Does he think our Departments here and agencies abroad, including in troops will not see through the spin being applied? Afghanistan. As the right hon. and learned Member for Today’s Defence Committee report also pointed out North-East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) mentioned, future gaps in terms of helicopters. the relationship with the Afghan Government is rife with corruption. We are not seeing the NGOs going in The issue of troop numbers was also touched on and carrying out reconstruction. Indeed, I think we briefly, and my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Sussex need to ask ourselves whether we have the capability in spoke with great clarity on the matter. The Opposition this country to carry out reconstruction in a hostile have not had a presentation from our military chiefs environment. If the answer is no, we have to do much about increased numbers. However, there is a widespread more to create that capability and learn from what has understanding that 2,000 extra troops were sought, been done elsewhere. with an extra battalion to help to train the Afghan We must have better burden sharing among the allies, national army, and one for the Afghan national police. which is simply not happening, and we must have the We have always said that more troops should be equipment we need. Let us make no mistake: we are accompanied by proportionate and appropriate increases engaged in a crucial and historic struggle, so public in resources. However, if the Prime Minister turned trust is important for the resilience that we will need. down a request for more men, which would have helped The public must believe that they are being told the to speed up the training of the Afghan army and police, truth and given the full picture. My right hon. Friend therefore enabling us to carry out our task and leave the Member for Richmond, Yorks said at the outset Afghanistan earlier, why was it refused? The British that it would be better if we had regular updates or public have a right to know why the Prime Minister did perhaps quarterly debates in the House, with the not take the advice of the senior military. 549 Afghanistan and Pakistan16 JULY 2009 Afghanistan and Pakistan 550

[Dr. Liam Fox] overarching, comprehensive strategy to tackle terrorism in the region which is a direct threat to our national Right at the beginning of the debate, my right hon. security. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks said that we We are fighting the Taliban now in Afghanistan are fortunate that in a society without conscription, we because a Taliban return would give al-Qaeda greater have people courageous and committed enough to put freedom to operate: freedom to plan, direct or provide their lives at risk voluntarily for the security of their support for more terrorist attacks—as was pointed out country and their fellow citizens. They know their duty, by the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox)—like and risk their lives carrying it out. We, too, have a duty those of 9/11 in New York and Washington, in Madrid, to them. It is time that that duty was properly and fully and here in London, among many others. And for the carried out. Afghan people, a Taliban return would mean a return to brutality, oppression, intolerance and violent extremism. 5.48 pm In 2001, as part of the international coalition, we defeated the Taliban and cleared out al-Qaeda. We The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): returned in significant numbers in 2006, and have increased It was very important that we debated Afghanistan our commitment since then, because they are back today, particularly with the losses that we have been threatening the stability of Afghanistan, Pakistan and suffering in recent days. I do not disagree that there is a the region. need for regular debates: I arranged a briefing from the Let me turn to some of the issues that have been military on Tuesday, so that we could have a briefing raised. Helicopters are important. I shall tell the House before the recess. We shall try to ensure that we have what I will do, but first I shall tell it what I will not do. I debates as regularly as possible. will not put Merlins into Afghanistan before they are We all need to be focused on understanding what our ready—before the crews are trained and the blades, people are doing in Afghanistan. I understand the defensive suites and night vision are fitted. I will not put importance of ensuring the widest possible cross-party soldiers in the back of helicopters in a war zone when support. With all the talk that there has rightly been the crews and frames are not ready. [Interruption.] about material support for our forces to do the job we Some newspapers, and perhaps some Members, are ask them to do, let us not forget the need for moral suggesting that we can and should do that, but we support as well. cannot put Merlins in Afghanistan before December Our armed forces are the best of the best: professional, this year if we want a good, safe and capable force. We skilled, determined and courageous. As many Members cannot bring that forward. I have talked to many people of the House have today, I want to add my tribute to the about whether we can, but we cannot. fallen: their sacrifice must never be forgotten, and neither Let me tell the House what I will do. I will, if should we forget the sacrifice of those who return with necessary, bend people out of shape to ensure that the life-changing injuries, whether physical or mental. They Lynx has all the necessary capability from this October, must and will receive the support that they need. We so that we do not have to withdraw it in the spring. I will owe it to all those who have fallen, to those who have consider again whether there is any way in which we can suffered, and to the entire nation, to explain why the bring the eight useless Chinooks that we bought back in sacrifice is being made. 1996 into service any more quickly. Our plan is to get As the Foreign Secretary has said, we are operating in additional Chinooks out there next summer, and if we Afghanistan to protect our national security. We are can do it more quickly, we will. I will consider again fighting the Taliban to prevent al-Qaeda, and the terrorists whether we can squeeze more out of every frame that whom they bring, from returning to Afghanistan and we have. When troops are in the field, I am going to threatening us directly.For Britain to be secure, Afghanistan satisfy myself that every single muscle is being flexed in needs to be secure. This is not just about the UK’s every single part of our helicopter capability. national security; 42 nations are taking part in one of I saw what the Select Committee’s report said about the widest ever international coalitions, and it is about the Puma upgrade and the defence industrial strategy. I their national security too. The international community must say to the right hon. Member for North-East has a joint strategy for success, not just a military Hampshire (Mr. Arbuthnot) and his Committee that I strategy but a comprehensive strategy for governance, hope that that is not code for putting industry before development and reconstruction. our armed forces. Capability must come first. The Puma People ask—it has been asked again in the House upgrade will go ahead. Given the resources that I have, today—why we are fighting in Afghanistan when al-Qaeda that is the best way in which to deliver the capability has relocated to Pakistan. Given that we defeated the that we need as quickly as possible. Taliban in 2001, why are we still fighting them now in Since 2006, we have increased the number of airframes 2009? Those questions are understandable, but they available to commanders in Afghanistan by more than misunderstand the situation. Al-Qaeda has relocated to 60 per cent., and the number of helicopter hours, which the borderlands in Pakistan and it poses a direct threat commanders use to plan, by 84 per cent. Commanders to Pakistan and to wider international security, but it is on the ground in Afghanistan are clear that they have not in Afghanistan, because we are in Afghanistan. If enough helicopters to meet the requirements of current we allowed ungoverned space to exist in Afghanistan, operations, but they always want more, and I must, and al-Qaeda would take the opportunity to return. That is will, continue to work flat out to try to deliver them why, as the Foreign Secretary said earlier, our strategy is everything we can. not on Afghanistan alone, but focuses on Pakistan as On troop numbers, this is an international mission to well. That is why in April the Prime Minster presented which the UK is the second largest troop contributor. to the House—and published in a document—our UK forces are doing a large part of the heavy lifting in 551 Afghanistan and Pakistan 16 JULY 2009 552

Afghanistan, having provided the vast majority of for every operation, from time to time people will have international forces in the most difficult province in the to get out of those vehicles. They have to make contact country for the last three years. As the Chief of the with the people; they have to walk among them and win General Staff intimated just yesterday, new boots do them over. That is dangerous work and it is cruel to not need to be UK boots. This is a NATO operation, pretend that we can remove the danger from the job and we have increased our commitment as part of the that we ask our people to do. surge to prepare for the elections, but so have others. Question put and agreed to. There are 400 new Polish troops, 450 more Australians Resolved, and more Spanish, Lithuanians, Romanians, Swedish and Germans—and, of course, thousands more from That this House has considered the matter of Afghanistan and the USA. Pakistan. We have debated troop numbers and options, and, as the Prime Minister clearly stated on Monday, we keep Business without Debate our force levels under constant review, depending on the operational requirement. We have the manpower we COMMITTEES need for the current operations. We will review our commitment after the Afghan elections, on the advice of our commanders and in discussions with our allies. REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (WEST MIDLANDS) Let me say a few words on Operation Panther’s Claw. Motion made, As the Foreign Secretary said in opening the debate, the That Dr Richard Taylor be a member of the West Midlands purpose of the operation is to provide the estimated Regional Select Committee.—(Kerry McCarthy.) 80,000 people in the Babaji area with sufficient security to allow the elections to take place. This requires clearing Hon. Members: Object. out the Taliban and preventing them from intimidating local people so they can live and vote in safety. All the REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (YORKSHIRE AND THE reports I am receiving from theatre are that this is going HUMBER) to plan. ISAF now has a significant security presence in Motion made, a previously ungoverned area. The insurgents are being That Mary Creagh be discharged from the Yorkshire and the hurt; we are taking out large numbers of insurgents, but Humber Regional Select Committee and Mr Austin Mitchell be that is not the measure of success. We need to win the added.—(Kerry McCarthy.) people. Engagement with the local population is bearing fruit: the first outreach Shura was being held in the Hon. Members: Object. newly cleared area; priority development and governance and reconstruction projects are being identified; and REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (SOUTH WEST) polling stations are being planned. This is happening right behind the front line. There is significant momentum Motion made, and we are pushing through the area and driving the That Linda Gilroy be discharged from the South West Regional enemy out, but the task is going to remain hard, and we Select Committee and Roger Berry be added.—(Kerry McCarthy.) should brace ourselves for further casualties. I am sure that right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the Hon. Members: Object. House will want to provide our armed forces with the support they need, want and deserve as they continue to do the job. SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE Motion made, Ann Winterton: Is the right hon. Gentleman able to That, at the sittings on Monday 20 July and on Tuesday answer the question that I posed to the Foreign Secretary 21 July, the Speaker shall not adjourn the House until any message from the Lords has been received, any Committee to at the outset of this debate about the helicopter that draw up Reasons which has been appointed at that sitting has had been contracted to the British? reported, and he has notified the Royal Assent to Acts agreed upon by both Houses.—(Kerry McCarthy.) Mr. Ainsworth: We suffered the loss of a contract helicopter in the north of Helmand province and there Hon. Members: Object. were deaths as a result of that. I will write to the hon. Lady and give her more detail on it if she wants. I know that she often raises the issue of vehicles and that she SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE REFORM OF has had a long-standing interest in the subject. People THE HOUSE OF COMMONS continue to say that there is a huge problem with Motion made, vehicles. We have a suite of vehicles now, including (1) That a Select Committee be appointed to consider and Mastiff, Ridgback and Jackal. We also have the new make recommendations on the following matters: tactical support vehicles—Wolfhound, Husky and (a) the appointment of members and chairmen of select Coyote—coming into province. It is cruel to pretend to committees; those who have lost their lives that we will be able to (b) scheduling business in the House; stop our people dying by providing more helicopters or (c) enabling the public to initiate debates and proceedings in a suite of vehicles. Many Members have said that this the House; and afternoon, however. Even if we can get to the point (d) such other matters as appear to the Committee to be closely where every single vehicle is available in every single connected with the matters set out above, and to report on these location the length and breadth of the Helmand province matters by 13 November 2009; 553 Business without Debate 16 JULY 2009 554

(2) That the Committee also consider such other matters as Enid Ruhango may be referred to it from time to time; (3) That the Committee consist of eighteen Members; Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mary Creagh.) (4) That Mr Graham Allen, Mr Clive Betts, Mr Graham Brady, Mr David Clelland, Mr David Drew, Natascha Engel, Dr Evan Harris, David Howarth, Mr Michael Jack, Mr Greg Knight, Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Mr Chris Mullin, Dr Nick Palmer, Martin 6.1 pm Salter, Dr Phyllis Starkey, Mr Andrew Tyrie, Dr Tony Wright and Sir George Young be members of the Committee; Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): First, I wish to thank Mr. Speaker for very graciously allowing (5) That Dr Tony Wright be Chairman of the Committee; this debate to take place, because I am grateful to have (6) That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers the opportunity to raise the case of Enid Ruhango in and records, to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House, to adjourn from place to place, to report from time to time the House. I truly hope that this debate will finally lead and to appoint specialist advisers; us to a just resolution of this matter. (7) That this Order be a Standing Order of the House until the I make it clear, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that at no point end of the present Parliament.—(Kerry McCarthy.) during this debate will I refer to any aspect of this case that is considered sub judice. I would not normally Hon. Members: Object. bring an individual asylum case before the House, but I do so today because this particular case is such a sorry saga of administrative incompetence, systematic failure PETITION and a worrying disregard for human rights. My objective today is simply to put the facts of this case on the record Steel Industry (Yorkshire) and highlight them to the Minister and his Department. It concerns a young woman who suffered great abuse in 6pm her home country and, I am sorry to say, at the hands of Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): As is well our own immigration system. known, constituents in Rotherham, South Yorkshire Enid Ruhango first came to see me in 2006. She was and other parts of the country have great concern about being supported by her friends in the community of the the state of the steel industry. In less than two weeks, All Hallows church in my constituency.Before approaching some 6,020 residents of Rotherham and South Yorkshire me, Enid had sought and received assistance from the have signed this petition asking that the House and the hon. Member for North-East Bedfordshire (Alistair Government treat this matter with urgency and some Burt), to whose work on this case at that time I pay seriousness. On behalf of the petitioners, I now present tribute. I will never forget hearing Enid’s story. Her it to the House of Commons. description of what happened to her in Uganda was The petition states: one of the most difficult things I have ever had to listen to in my life. She had experienced things that most of us The Petition of residents of Rotherham, and others, could not imagine and certainly would not want to Declares that the Petitioners are concerned about the decline contemplate. She was clearly traumatised, yet she retained of the steel industry in South Yorkshire. a quiet courage and dignity despite all that she had been The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons through. urges the Government to make time for a full debate on the state of the steel industry, and to bring forward recommendations, to Enid Ruhango entered this country as long ago as be considered by the House, to ensure its survival. 5 December 2003, having fled Uganda where she had And the Petitioners remain, etc. been subjected to torture and rape at the hands of [P000396] Ugandan forces. Enid claimed for asylum on 15 December 2003, but her claim was refused on 9 February 2004 on the grounds that she did not qualify under the 1951 United Nations convention on the status of refugees. On 30 April 2004, a further appeal was dismissed on both asylum and human rights grounds. In 2004, both Enid’s original application for asylum and her appeal were refused on the same grounds. On 17 May 2004, she was detained at Waterside court, in Leeds, and was transported from there to Yarl’s Wood. At Waterside court, she was offered no food. In addition, she has a long-term condition for which she needs to take medicine, but she had no medication with her at that time. Someone was sent to her flat, but they did not find any medication and she was not provided with any replacement medication. Transport left at around 7 pm and arrived at Yarl’s Wood around midnight. She was not told that she would need to go to the toilet before she left and, although the van stopped on the journey, she was not allowed out. She was given no food by the escorts on the journey, and staff at Yarl’s Wood gave her none on arrival. She was alone all that time in the back of the van, which smelled of urine and faeces. 555 Enid Ruhango16 JULY 2009 Enid Ruhango 556

Enid was taken to the reception at Yarl’s Wood 4.30 pm, when the bail hearing had been fixed for around 7 am. Staff there gave her no food, though the 10 am. No food or toilet facilities were made available van did not come for her until some time between noon between Colnbrook and Birmingham. On the return and 2 pm on 18 May. Early in the morning, she had journey to Yarl’s Wood, Enid was supplied with Kentucky received tea and chocolate, but only from her room-mate. Fried Chicken—escorts had contacted Yarl’s Wood, The transport arrived at Heathrow around 5.30 pm and saying she had not eaten since the morning. She arrived Enid had to wait inside for a period. She asked to use a back at Yarl’s Wood around 6 pm. toilet and was refused; she was told that she would have As is well documented, the chief inspector of prisons to wait until she got on the plane. Again, she was given Anne Owers launched an inquiry into health care at no food. Not surprisingly, Enid was highly distressed Yarl’s Wood immigration removal centre in May 2005, when escorts forcibly attempted to put her on board the after concerns were raised not only for the safety of plane and, as a result, airline staff refused to fly her to Enid and Sophie but for that of the other women taking Uganda. She also reports that she received racial abuse part in the hunger strike. The report refers to Enid as from escorts, and that handcuffs were used in a way Ms B and Sophie as Ms A, and it states: which resulted in cuts to the wrists—they left scars that are still visible. “The delivery of healthcare was undermined by a lack of needs assessment, weak clinical governance systems, and inadequate In July 2005, in protest at the way they had been staff training in relation to trauma…When clinical concerns were treated by the detention centre, Enid and her close raised, the information was not systematically addressed or actioned. friend Sophie Odogo—as well as several other women Nor was independent medical opinion sought or adhered to…Towards at Yarl’s Wood—began a 38-day hunger strike. Enid’s the end of the hunger strike, they were probably being advised health deteriorated rapidly and she wrote to the hon. inappropriately to re-feed in Yarl’s Wood. One seems to have been denied painkilling medication while on hunger strike.” Member for North-East Bedfordshire, who wrote to the then Immigration Minister, the right hon. Member for I could go on. Those devastating criticisms of the Harrow, East (Mr. McNulty), informing him that the procedures in Yarl’s Wood completely undermine the women were on hunger strike and saying that this assertions made in correspondence between me and the proved their desperation. The hon. Member for North-East Home Office that Enid was in receipt of good care Bedfordshire also raised concerns about the quality of there. Moreover, health reports since then have shown legal advice available to the women. In his detailed and that this is a woman suffering from psychological problems. substantial reply the Minister rebutted the suggestions On 22 December 2006, Dr. Christina Pourgourides, a of inadequate legal advice and ignored the information consultant psychiatrist, said of Enid: regarding the hunger strike. “She is currently suffering from very significant mental health Enid and her friend Sophie Odogo were both admitted problems, namely post-traumatic stress disorder and depressive to Bedford hospital, but only after they had ended their illness…She is at very substantial risk of a grave deterioration in hunger strike and had started eating again. At no time her mental health, particularly if faced with the prospect of during the hunger strike were they taken off the premises further detention and/or removal. Should this occur, I believer at Yarl’s Wood. her to be a significant health risk.” In a letter dated 23 August 2005, the Immigration Enid was eventually released from detention on Minister stated that the Home Office took no account 26 February 2006. Even though Yarl’s Wood is supposed of the well-being of an individual once they had returned to be a temporary detention centre, she was there for to their country of origin, and therefore the problems nine months. Although both a Member of Parliament that Enid might have securing the medication for her and a solicitor have raised concerns independently about condition when in Uganda were not a consideration in the medical attention at Yarl’s Wood, I do not feel that her appeal. On 17 October 2005, the Minister wrote that has been taken into consideration in this case. again, saying: Throughout this time, I have had much correspondence “The doctors at Yarl’s Wood assessed Ms Ruhango yesterday with different Ministers on this issue, as has the hon. afternoon and concluded that there is no medical or psychiatric Member for North-East Bedfordshire. In 2006, he wrote problem with her. She is eating and normally mobile.” to make the point that Enid should be allowed to stay in Surely someone who has been in that situation cannot the country because of her association with Sophie be considered to be in a state of physical and mental Odogo, who was then involved in a civil case and has well-being. Both Enid and Sophie continued to be held now been granted leave to remain. at Yarl’s Wood despite their medical problems. Sophie’s Enid’s treatment in the asylum and immigration system condition deteriorated so badly that she was transferred has been a scandal. The Home Office continually changed to a secure mental health facility, and they were of the schedule according to which Enid had to report to course in no condition to be deported. the immigration centre between weekly and fortnightly, Enid complained that she was not receiving correct despite the fact that she and her supporters had provided treatment for her condition and the hon. Member for psychological reports detailing the emotional damage North-East Bedfordshire wrote again, voicing his concerns that these increased visits were doing. When the right that Yarl’s Wood did not seek second options from hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr. Byrne), objective medical sources in the treatment of detainees. now the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, took over On 7 December 2005, Enid’s bail hearing was ordered responsibility for the case at the Home Office, my for 10 am at Sheldon court in Birmingham. Transport requests for a meeting about Enid’s asylum case were left Yarl’s Wood around 9 am. It did not go directly to repeatedly declined. Despite several requests, the Home Birmingham, but arrived at Colnbrook immigration Office has not altered its position. removal centre around 12.30 pm. Only then were toilet In a letter that I wrote on 25 July 2006, I ensured that facilities made available inside the building. Enid the Minister was aware of the damning verdict on the was taken to Birmingham, arriving between 3.30 and centre as detailed in the report by the chief inspector of 557 Enid Ruhango16 JULY 2009 Enid Ruhango 558

[Greg Mulholland] immigration system, is a stain on the reputation of this country as a bastion of democracy and a haven from prisons. I have written several times to express my political persecution. It is surely time to let her get on frustration at the clear lack of progress since that appalling with her life—a life so damaged—which has now, in this time at Yarl’s Wood. country, been in limbo for such a long time. Enid made a fresh asylum and European convention Will the Minister, or his colleague the Minister for on human rights claim on 9 May 2008 but, notwithstanding Borders and Immigration, look into this case and intervene its complexity and obvious merit, the Home Office personally, not just out of compassion—one could hardly refused to treat it as a fresh claim and sought therefore not feel that listening to the facts—but out of a clear to deny her a right of appeal. Two psychologists said sense of the need to right the wrongs done to this that Enid was clearly not mentally fit to be deported, woman in the name of his Department? I implore him but it took the Home Office 11 days to reject those and his ministerial colleague to intervene and finally submissions, with no right of appeal. The Home Office bring this sorry saga to the only just conclusion and to quickly withdrew its refusal to accept them when Enid’s fulfil the manifest moral responsibility to end Enid’s lawyers called for judicial review—surely a sign that years of suffering by finally granting her indefinite leave they knew their case was weak—and Enid’s solicitors to remain in this country. After so many years, and after agreed to suspend their application for judicial review at so much failure and suffering for Enid in our immigration the Home Office’s request. system, anything less would be an insult to justice. In 2008, the Home Office again ignored psychiatric reports and put Enid back on a weekly reporting schedule, 6.19 pm causing her great distress. In March, an extraordinary The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the series of events led to the cancellation, on the day, of an Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell): First, I immigration hearing on the case. I made considerable congratulate the hon. Member for Leeds, North-West effort to attend the hearing, as did several witnesses, (Greg Mulholland) on securing this debate. He is continuing including a consultant psychiatrist who travelled from his long interest in this case and the wider issues that it Birmingham and a witness who travelled from Bedford, raises. He sought, as is his right as a Member of this as well as the barrister and solicitor, who travelled from House, to put his concerns on the record, and he has London. On the very day, however, the Home Office done that in a forceful but measured way. I want to try withdrew the procedure, which frankly beggars belief to respond to some of the specific points put to me, but given that everyone was already in place. I wrote to the he will be aware that it is not the policy of the Government Home Office asking for the costs of the cancellation, to discuss individual cases, especially when they are the but I still have not had a response. That, I am afraid, subject of ongoing legal proceedings, as they are in this epitomises the way this case has been handled. case. Let us consider the history of this case. It beggars The wider context is that the Government are delivering belief that no one at the Home Office reviewed the the biggest shake-up of the immigration system in a decision before the hearing on 30 March. Responsibility generation, and are transforming the asylum system. for the farce of withdrawing the hearing on the day lies The Government proudly maintain the United Kingdom’s entirely with the Home Office. Again, it caused enormous tradition of providing protection to individuals who are distress to an already traumatised woman. Then the found to be at risk of persecution or ill-treatment if Home Office agreed to make a new decision in 10 working they return to their home countries. To honour those days; it did not keep to that deadline, but it did then obligations, the UK Border Agency has established an decide to refuse asylum and grant discretionary leave to entirely new process for managing asylum applicants. remain for six months. That, frankly, was particularly Case ownership has improved the asylum process by cruel, because, given that leave was granted for less than giving responsibility for concluding consideration of six months, it meant that Enid had no right of appeal—the applications to one person. That has created a strong cruellest twist in this cruel case and the end, effectively, incentive for cases to be concluded by giving case owners of her asylum claim. clear targets to work towards. Trained caseworkers in I have raised this matter in the House on several UKBA carefully consider all asylum and human rights occasions, but never received a satisfactory reply. I have claims on their individual merits, in accordance with written numerous times to Ministers, and before that our obligations under the 1951 UN refugee convention the hon. Member for North-East Bedfordshire did so. and the European convention on human rights. Most recently, I raised the case in this House with the All applications are considered against the background Minister for Borders and Immigration, the hon. Member of the latest available country information and after full for Oldham, East and Saddleworth (Mr. Woolas), who consideration of all the evidence provided. By the end reassured me that the Government were looking into of last year, as a result of those new processes, 60 per the case. Again, however, I have heard nothing since. cent. of new applicants were granted permission to I appreciate the opportunity to put the facts of this remain or removed within six months. By comparison, shameful case on the record, and I hope that the Minister in 1997 it took an average of 22 months just to take an will consider it in its entirety. I shall assist him in doing initial decision on asylum applications. We are succeeding so and will happily meet him and his colleagues, if they in our goal of handling applications faster. That helps so wish. The simple reality is that this woman, who was those who need our protection to integrate quickly into terrorised in her home country of Uganda, has been let our communities, and it means that those who do not down in the United Kingdom. Enid’s only family now need that protection know quickly that they should are her friends and the community in Leeds and, in leave. Asylum intake has remained broadly at the same particular, at All Hallows church. The handling of this level for the past four years, and it is less than a third of case, and the treatment of Enid Ruhango by our the level at which it peaked in 2002. 559 Enid Ruhango16 JULY 2009 Enid Ruhango 560

Last year, around 30 per cent. of the applications for but this case is about historical failures. It is wonderful asylum that were considered resulted in some kind of that things have improved, but, to echo the comments protection being granted in the first instance. Each of of my constituency neighbour, the right hon. Member the applicants who were refused had a right of appeal to for Leeds, West (John Battle), I must ask, will the independent courts. The Asylum and Immigration Tribunal Minister please assure me that he will consider the issue hears and decides such appeals, and it is for judges in in its entirety? The best asylum and immigration system the tribunal to decide the remit of the appeal hearing. in the world will still get things wrong sometimes. The hon. Gentleman raised concerns about the use of immigration detention in the case that he described. Mr. Campbell: The hon. Gentleman anticipates my Again, I must stress that there are ongoing legal proceedings comments to some extent. I am aware of the time scale on that matter, and I do not want to prejudice those in involved, but I think that it is important to put the issue any way. However, I can talk about the wider issue. in context and to address some of his criticisms of the system by saying that lessons have been learned from John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): I understand that, the inspector’s report and that changes have been made. and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister. We The hon. Gentleman and my right hon. Friend the should be grateful to the hon. Member for Leeds, Member for Leeds, West (John Battle) have put on the North-West (Greg Mulholland) for the way in which he record the need to proceed with the matter expeditiously, raised the issue, and for the facts that he has put on the quickly and properly, and to see it in the round; and, as table. I represent the reception centre for the whole of I keep repeating, there are legal proceedings to address west Yorkshire—it is in my neighbourhood—and Waterside those requirements. court. I probably see 100 or more asylum seekers a The hon. Gentleman’s concerns do not just relate to month, and have done for years. I have to say that I the use of immigration detention and the facilities at agree with the hon. Gentleman that there has been a Yarl’s Wood, but to the treatment of those people lack of care—indeed, a neglect of the duty of care—at arriving at Yarl’s Wood who claim to have been the Yarl’s Wood. On Enid’s case, may I offer her and the victim of torture. At Yarl’s Wood, there is an on-site hon. Gentleman a word of support? She has tremendous dedicated health care centre with a small in-patient support and there is strong, personal, in-depth solidarity facility. I know that Medical Justice raised concerns with her in the local community. Will the Minister about Yarl’s Wood in 2005, but, as the hon. Gentleman assure us that he will not let the case lie in a Department said, UKBA commissioned the chief inspector of prisons in-tray, and not let it be backlogged in a legal procedure, to undertake a review of its provision of health care but will instead seriously get his Department to look at services. The chief inspector made 48 recommendations, her case again, from tonight? of which 38 were accepted, eight were accepted in principle or in part and two were rejected. The health Mr. Campbell: As ever, my right hon. Friend makes a care team that residents can now access is made up of powerful case and speaks up for his local community. GPs, general nurses, mental health nurses, health visitors, He will appreciate, I am sure, that there are legal processes midwives, dentists, counsellors and allied health care at work. I cannot comment on specifics, but his remarks professionals and consultants. There are 14 full-time are on the record, and I assure him that they have been and two part-time nurses at the centre, and a bank of heard. seven can be called upon, if required, in an emergency. UKBA has 11 immigration removal centres. They UKBA’s policy is clear and consistent with the detention provide 3,000 bed spaces, which are predominantly for centre rules of 2001, which require that, unless the individuals who are awaiting removal, or whose applications detainee refuses, they should be given a physical and are being processed under the detained fast-track mental examination by a medical practitioner within arrangements. Let me make it clear that no one likes to 24 hours of their admission to the detention centre. use detention, but it is an essential part of the Government’s When there are concerns or allegations that the detainees commitment to operate a firm but fair immigration and have previously been the victims of torture, health care asylum policy, as it assists us in removing those who do staff are required to report such cases to the centre not qualify for leave to remain here and who refuse to manager, and those reports are passed to the office leave the UK voluntarily, or who would otherwise abscond. responsible for managing and/or reviewing the individual’s The use of immigration detention is always a last resort, detention. In the light of the information in the report, but if people refuse to go home, detention becomes a case workers must then review the individual’s continued necessity. detention and respond to the centre within two working Yarl’s Wood immigration removal centre has just days of receipt of the report. It is important to note that over 400 bed spaces: about 280 are designated for single anyone detained under immigration powers can apply females, and about 120 are family bed spaces. The for bail at any time. The courts then consider whether centre has full-time independent social workers and a detention is appropriate. range of trained experts to monitor welfare 24 hours a The issues that have been raised this evening are day, and it has been praised on numerous occasions for serious and complex. I assure the hon. Gentleman that its facilities. In fact, Her Majesty’s chief inspector of UKBA is dealing with the case in line with its procedures, prisons has recently praised it for the “significant progress” and that his constituent will be allowed to remain in the that has been made. United Kingdom to conclude her ongoing litigation. Question put and agreed to. Greg Mulholland: I am very pleased to hear that there have been improvements since the damning report. 6.28 pm That news is extremely welcome and hugely important, House adjourned.

145WH 16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 146WH

the national planning and housing advice unit suggest Westminster Hall that rather than 240,000 extra homes a year being required, 252,000 will be required up to 2031 if we are Thursday 16 July 2009 to deliver on housing need and to meet not only the continued growth in households but the backlog that built up in the decades when house building did not [JOAN WALLEY in the Chair] keep pace with household growth. So we think that the targets should be retained, even though we recognise Housing and the Credit Crunch that the Government will have difficulty in reaching at [Relevant documents: Third Report from the Communities least the 2016 target, because of the credit crunch. and Local Government Committee Session 2008-09 We welcome the various measures that the Government HC 101 and the Government response Cm 7619. The announced before our first report, as well as the extra Eighth Report of the Communities and Local Government £1.5 billion that they have subsequently brought forward. Committee, Housing and the credit crunch: follow-up, We welcome in particular the provision of additional HC 568.] funding to housing associations, and now councils, to Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting enable them to bring forward more social rented homes. be now adjourned.—(Mr. Ian Austin.) We also welcome the steps that have been taken to improve the flow of mortgage finance, because we have 2.30 pm received considerable evidence that the lack of mortgage finance is a huge problem for those who are attempting to Dr. Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes, South-West) (Lab): buy at market rates and in the shared-ownership sector. In opening the debate, I want to set the report in context and draw Members’ attention to the fact that a second We have highlighted the key issue that, if house report on this issue has just been published—the building is to recover when we start coming out of Committee’s eighth report of this Session—which is the the recession and as a result of the measures that the second stage of our look at housing and the credit Government have been taking, we have to retain the crunch. I shall refer to some of that report’s content, skills and expertise of those who work in the construction although the Government have not yet had time to industry within that sector. If we do not, we will repeat respond to it. what happened after the last recession, when it took the house building industry far too long to recover and Let me start by restating the importance of housing rebuild its skills once all the other factors were removed policy to Members across the House. That is reflected in and once mortgage finance was flowing again and the number of inquiries that my Committee has published people were able to buy. So we are very concerned about this Session on matters of housing policy, notably our retaining skills and capacity.We are particularly concerned reports on affordability and the supply of housing and that, when the Government consider how to increase on rental housing. Almost all Members of Parliament house building, they should reconsider the mix of housing know from their constituency case load what an important types, because we believe that the change in the economic issue housing is. The mix of relevant issues will differ situation has altered people’s ability to exercise the between constituencies, but a big issue for all MPs is the home-ownership option. difficulty that people have in accessing affordable housing, Now that I have given an overview of the issues that whether to buy, part-buy or rent. That is the background we have raised, let me pick out one or two of them for to the report. discussion. I am pleased to see that several other hon. In our earlier reports, we endorsed the Government’s Members have arrived in the Chamber; no doubt, they decision to set very challenging house building targets, will wish to contribute to the debate from their different including on the proportion of affordable housing and viewpoints. I have mentioned the difficulty that first-time homes for social rent, so the Committee has been greatly buyers and people on low-to-moderate incomes have concerned by the effect that the credit crunch has been been experiencing in expressing their need for housing having on the Government’s ability to deliver those through having the economic ability to buy. We are targets and by its other effects on the housing market. particularly concerned that low-cost home-ownership As a result, we decided to have a one-off session in schemes have suffered because of people’s inability to December 2008, which is discussed in the main report, access the mortgage finance that they need. and a follow-up session with the same witnesses in We have also raised our concern that the Government, June 2009. in their commendable wish to tailor schemes to meet I shall go through some of the main points that came the evolving needs of different groups, ended up with a out of the report and the Government response to it, complicated system with a variety of low-cost ownership starting with house building targets. We have already schemes that it is difficult for people to navigate their welcomed the Government’s targets to deliver 2 million way through. The Government have responded to that homes by 2016 and 3 million by 2020, which equates to concern by saying that all the schemes are at least 240,000 homes a year. The Government were starting to delivered through the single point of a contact homebuy increase the rate of house building before the credit agent. I know from my constituency how effective such crunch intervened, at which point house building rates measures can be, but we are pleased that the Government dropped through the floor. There were then voices have now launched a rent-to-homebuy scheme to meet calling for the Government to revise their targets on the the further needs of people who want to rent before basis that they would have difficulty in delivering them, moving into shared ownership. However, we still feel but we do not think that they should change the targets. that the Government need to go further in clarifying Clearly, the timeline to reaching the targets will be and properly signposting the different schemes that are different, but they are important; indeed, we think that available, so that people are able to benefit from the they still are not high enough. The latest results from scheme that is most appropriate to them. 147WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 148WH

[Dr. Phyllis Starkey] Such standards are also a key part of encouraging the construction skills and products that underpin increasing On the balance of housing tenure, I think that we all the environmental efficiency of our homes, so it is recognise that most people aspire to own their own important to ensure a guaranteed market for those home. It is clear, however, following the chaos that products. If the Government were to reduce those standards ensued with the sub-prime mortgage market and the now, it would send an extremely bad signal and reduce practice of encouraging people on uncertain and irregular still further the market for the sort of construction skills incomes to enter into heavy borrowing commitments and equipment that are necessary if we are to improve that they were then unable to maintain, that even when our housing stock and ensure that new houses are built the mortgage system is up and running properly again, to much higher standards. Obviously, the Government’s a tranche of people who would previously have been target for all new homes to be zero-carbon by 2016 is an able to access mortgage finance through the sub-prime important part of that. market will no longer be deemed to be prudent risks On mortgage finance, we were particularly concerned—I and therefore will not be able to access mortgage finance. am trespassing slightly here because this was in our As a result, we think it is obvious that more people second report rather than our first—that the feedback will need to rely on the social rented or market rented we got from the mortgage lenders indicated that the systems in future and that the Government should Government’s asset-backed securities guarantee scheme recognise that and reconsider their overall policy. We did not seem to be working as well as it should. Although have previously pushed the Government to increase the that is primarily a matter for the Treasury Committee annual target for new social homes, and we are pleased rather than us, it is important to flag up the issue. The that they have raised it to 45,000. They should perhaps Treasury Committee has taken evidence along roughly be keeping that under review and increasing the target the same lines and will, doubtless, be making still further, because there will be a greater need for recommendations on how it believes that mortgage social rented homes. finance schemes can be improved. The various steps that the Government and others The final subject to which I shall turn is that of are taking to encourage the transition between rental existing home owners and the measures that need to be and ownership, such as the rent-to-homebuy scheme, taken to try to prevent them from losing their homes are extremely welcome. There is possibly a need for through repossession if they have problems in sustaining more such schemes. I should like to mention a housing their mortgages. We were concerned that some of the association scheme in my constituency, which is run by measures that the Government have put in place— Places for People at Wolverton Park. I have spoken the pre-action protocol and the Financial Services about that development before because it is in the old Authority guidelines on the ways in which lenders should railway engineering works, so it is architecturally interesting approach people who are in danger of mortgage as well as being a mixed-tenure development. It has repossession—cannot be enforced, and we wanted the come on stream just when finance is particularly tricky, Government to consider sanctions that could be put in and Places for People has responded to that by developing place for non-compliance. We certainly had evidence a range of financial products to offer to potential that suggested some lenders are using repossession as a buyers, including 100 per cent. mortgages with no deposit, first resort, rather than as a last resort. That is why we an equity loan of up to 30 per cent. and a buy-back were particularly concerned that lenders should be held guarantee for the first three years to protect the individual to the commitments and guidelines to which they are against negative equity. supposed to comply. Places for People is also encouraging people to rent We welcome the various schemes that the Government first, with the option of buying subsequently, so that it have put in place, particularly the mortgage rescue can maintain a truly mixed-tenure development, while scheme. However, it has already been noted that the ensuring that the properties are occupied and homes are scheme has helped many fewer people than expected. not standing empty. That is a good example of how a From the evidence that we were given, it was not at all housing association can work to complement the measures clear whether that was because a lot fewer people were that the Government and, of course, some private in the eligible group and at risk of mortgage repossession developers are taking to make sure that houses are than expected, in which case the scheme would obviously occupied and are not left empty simply because individuals not help that many people, or whether people were not do not have access to the mortgage finance that they aware of the scheme and were not gaining access to it. need. The Government need to look much more closely at Although I think that everyone accepts that the slow- what is happening in relation to mortgage repossession down in house building is primarily related to the schemes and to consider whether or not the lack of inability of individuals to buy and the reduced access to people being helped is good news in the sense that not mortgage finance, some have suggested that a relaxation that many repossessions are going forward. of environmental standards on new homes and possibly also a relaxation of other requirements on developers, Mr. Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): such as the existing section 106 requirements, would Like many of us, I am sure that my hon. Friend has enable developers to bring forward housing more quickly. noted the Council of Mortgage Lenders’ downward The Committee was absolutely clear that it felt the revision of the number of anticipated repossessions environmental standards set out in the code for sustainable from, I think, 75,000, which it was forecasting earlier homes and in building regulations must be maintained. this year, to the latest figure of 60,000. She gave her It would be short-sighted to reduce those standards, surmise about the impact of the Government’s measures because the homes that are being built are not just for and the fact that the protocol is leading to forbearance now; they are for the next 50 years at least. and the avoidance of repossession action. Those figures 149WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 150WH seem to suggest that repossessions are being avoided The CML also said that very few people have come on a larger scale than was perhaps expected. Would out at the end of the rescue scheme, having completed she like to comment on that? it, but that there are now many more people in the pipeline being processed. That will take a bit of time Dr. Starkey: That is certainly probable. It is a matter as well. of concern that nobody seems to know the answer one way or the other, but it is most likely that that might be Dr. Starkey: Absolutely. Again, that points to the a contributing cause. The lenders themselves gave evidence need for the Government to keep a close eye on how a that indicated a much more active process is taking scheme is operating so that they can get early intelligence place at the moment and that individuals who are as to whether they need to step it up, or, as I said, step it having financial difficulties are speaking to their lenders down a bit and reallocate the money elsewhere. at a much earlier date than they had done previously. I want briefly to touch on housing associations. We We are all aware of the psychology of people putting welcome many of the steps that have been taken to their head in the sand and hoping that their debt increase social housing grant money to housing associations. problems will go away. Many of us have constituents We were convinced again of the sense in the Government’s who come to us with consumer credit problems and the decision to create the Homes and Communities Agency. first thing we say is, “Why on earth didn’t you seek help That decision, and the fact that the agency is up and earlier?” People have a tendency to wait until the whole running, have been particularly helpful during the credit thing has become completely insurmountable before crunch. The HCA has been able to respond more flexibly asking for help. Probably because of all the publicity and in a more timely manner than might have been about repossessions and the schemes available, it appears possible if we had still had the two separate agencies, that people are at least speaking to their lenders at a the Housing Corporation and English Partnerships. much earlier stage. The HCA definitely was created at just the right time, Let us be blunt and point out that the lenders themselves and it has come into its own, so to speak. have recognised that the state of the housing market Similarly, we welcome the proactive approach taken means that it is not in their interests to repossess, by the Tenant Services Authority to facilitate dialogue because the only point in a mortgage company repossessing between housing associations and lenders. We were a property is so that it can sell the property and achieve concerned by the evidence that we heard in December a capital inflow. The current state of the market means about the way in which some lenders seemed to take that mortgage companies would not be able to sell, so it advantage of any slight change in housing association is in their interest to maintain the person in the home governance to increase the costs of borrowing. and to get some regular payments from them, even if the amount is less than what is actually due. One example was a housing association that had been attempting to reduce its costs by a sensible A further issue is that a significant number of reorganisation, which it put off because, had the repossessions have been in respect of buy-to-let mortgages. reorganisation gone ahead, it would have incurred That is obviously of concern to the person who owns enormously increased borrowing costs. The bank would the home, from whom it is repossessed, but there is a have taken advantage of the change to alter the terms separate issue regarding the tenants of buy-to-let landlords, on which it lent to the housing association. We thought many of whom first realise that they are losing their that such behaviour was particularly unhelpful. home when the property is repossessed, despite having paid rent to the landlord. The Government have taken We had concerns about the interaction between housing measures to try to sort that out and to make sure that associations and their lenders, and we continue to have tenants are given decent notice. Again, encouragement concerns about the ability of housing associations to has been given to mortgage companies repossessing deliver new housing under the model of finance that such homes to maintain the tenants and just collect the was in operation before the credit crunch. rent off them. I will conclude by saying that this report was intended It is not clear why there has been such low take-up, to be a snapshot of the situation in December, and the and that points to the fact that when the Government follow-up report was to be a further snapshot. We are introduce such a scheme, some monitoring would be a beginning to see some slight green shoots in the housing good idea, so that everybody is aware of how it is market, which, clearly, are welcome, but the scale of the working. If few people need to use it, the public money turnaround that is required, if we are to get back on allocated to it could be redirected to some other group target to deliver the number of homes that are required that could make use of it, including, presumably, housing to meet people’s needs, is so great that we think that the associations which could build more houses. Government need to continue to look at what more they can do to get the upsurge in house building back Mr. Clive Betts (Sheffield, Attercliffe) (Lab): We met on track more quickly. They need to look not just at the with the CML for a briefing this week, and several amount of money that they are putting into rejuvenating interesting points came out about the rescue scheme. house building but at whether there might be further First, it took some time for people who might benefit measures that they need to take. They also need to think but also local authorities to become aware of it. Certainly about the longer term: when we do come out of the my own authority, Sheffield, to begin with denied any recession, will there need to be a bit of a rethink overall knowledge of the scheme or that it should be involved about the models for financing new house building? In in it. That has taken a bit of time. particular, do new ways need to be found to bring in Secondly, people almost certainly look for alternatives. private finance in addition to direct Government funding? They see a rescue scheme as a last resort. They would prefer to defer their interest payments for a time and Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Will my hon. hopefully get back into work. Friend give way? 151WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 152WH

Dr. Starkey: Let me finish this thought. It seems sufficient crisis need even to be given the opportunity of unlikely that the kind of profits that used to be available bidding for housing. Yet there are three people in a to private developers will be reinstated once we are out one-bedroom flat. of the credit crunch. Another woman came to my surgery on Saturday; I will call her Sarah. She first came to see me two years Mr. Drew: Has the Committee yet had a look at ago. She was living then in a two-bedroom flat with trying to bring in pension fund finance? My hon. Friend three children. At that time, she was pregnant with knows that I am a great advocate of the community twins and she needed to move. Two years later, she land trust model. We are looking seriously at whether comes back to see me again. She is living in the same we can persuade pension funds to get involved in that, flat, but she now has five children. In addition, her because there are long-term returns and, obviously, teenage sister has come to live with her as well. So there they have not been too successful with some of their are eight people in two bedrooms and they have scant other investments. I wonder whether the Committee hope of being rehoused. That is intolerable and it is might look at that, if it has not already done so. very difficult for me, as a Labour MP, to see these people and to know what to say to them. Dr. Starkey: We have not looked at that in particular, I do not always want to talk about bad news; I have and it is unlikely that we will have a chance to look at it already broken my golden rule by doing so today. in the immediate future, but I am sure that the Minister Consequently, I have taken from the top of my letters has taken note of what my hon. Friend said. There pile from yesterday a letter that I was about to sign, needs to be innovative thinking across the board to which contains good news. I have seen a couple of explore all the possible ways forward, because—I reiterate people for many years and I have been trying to help this—the scale of the increase in house building that is them to get rehoused. They were living in a two-bedroom required to meet housing need is so great that we must flat with their three children. One of the children has explore all possible avenues. type 1 diabetes, another one has autistic spectrum disorder and the third is fine, apart from the fact that he has had 2.57 pm to sleep in the same bed as his dad for years. This family have been bidding for a three-bedroom flat for a very Emily Thornberry (Islington, South and Finsbury) long time, but now they have been successful. Such (Lab): I welcome the new Minister to his post. I suspect successes sometimes happen, but far too rarely. Sometimes that we shall be speaking to him on many occasions. I there is a glimmer of hope. am afraid that I, as a representative of an inner city However the difficulty is that, because our housing seat, will take every opportunity that I can to lobby him system is overlaid by these very hard cases at the top, on what is, in the end, a key issue for the vast majority the woman who comes to see me as a regular thing of my constituents. every six months—I have referred to her before but I When I was first selected as the Labour candidate for feel as if she is a kind of base line—is overlooked. She is Member of Parliament for Islington, South and Finsbury, a single woman with two girls in a one-bedroom flat. my predecessor, the right hon. Chris Smith, asked me, She also does not have enough points to bid. However, “What is your interest in housing?” I said, “Not much,” she comes to see me every six months and says, “Remember, and he said, “It will be.” And it is, because when I knock Emily, I’m one of the ones who don’t even have enough on people’s doors, they open them and say, “Oh, Emily. points to bid”. It is because of the hard cases at the top Can I just show you how I live?” They show me in, and I of the system and because we can offer so little hope to see the most appalling circumstances, day in, day out. them that the vast majority of the people who are When they come to see me in my surgery, I sit there overcrowded suffer. As far as I am concerned, that hoping that they will ask me about anything other than woman should not have to sleep on a sofa for the rest of overcrowding. I almost feel that I can help them with her life, which is what she is going to have to do because anything else, but I cannot help them with overcrowding. she does not have any chance of going anywhere else. I do not mean to exaggerate, and I will not. In every The housing crisis within Islington is made worse, speech that I have ever made about housing since I have first because we have not been building anything new been elected, I have kept to a certain golden rule, which and, secondly, because we are essentially kettling people is that I will speak not about my worst case but about in; we are putting them into a pressure cooker. When I my last case. I had a surgery last Saturday, and, if I may, was a council tenant in the 1980s, I was a Greater I will illustrate how bad the housing crisis is in Islington London Council tenant, so I could move around London with the following cases. because I was in social housing that was provided on a A woman named Nelopa came to see me last Saturday. GLC basis. Now, however, all social housing is provided She lives in a one-bedroom flat with her two sons, one on a borough basis. of whom has attention deficit disorder and behaviour There are supposed to be a couple of schemes available; problems. The flat has a combined kitchen and living I think that one is called Seaside Homes and another room, which means that all three family members have one is called Move UK. They are not working; they to sleep in one bedroom. Islington allocates housing on have collapsed. It may be that the Minister will be the basis of points which are supposed to reflect need. I advised contrary to that and on paper those schemes am afraid that those of us who live in Islington have a may be supposed to be working. However, I can assure kind of ticker in the back of our head, and we can work him that they are not working and people cannot move out how many points someone is entitled to. Nelopa out of Islington. So they are stuck. does not even have enough points to be eligible to bid Then I turn to my local authority, because in the end for property. Even if one could bid, they probably it has to be my local authority, working in partnership would not get a place, but she is not seen to be in with the Government, that produces new homes. Before 153WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 154WH

I go any further, I should say—it is only right that I do Liberal Democrats, which has not meant the rehousing so—that, when I first began to knock on doors in of those people on the housing waiting list. Islington, all the social housing in the borough was a It is difficult, given how extreme our— disgrace. The lifts did not work, the passageways were full of urine and the properties were damp, disgusting Sarah Teather (Brent, East) (LD): I was listening to and squalid. I fully appreciate that that had a great deal the hon. Lady’s speech and I was enjoying it enormously to do with previous central Governments turning their until she got to the party political points, so I thought back on the poor of Islington and not giving sufficient that I had better return the favour. central Government grant to have allowed for that Does the hon. Lady not believe that the Government social housing to be kept up to a decent standard. need to do a great more to enable councils to build more When the Labour Government came in, I fully affordable housing for rent? I am sure that that is a understand why it was so important that we got all our point that we firmly agree on. For example, it is a shame social housing, throughout the country, up to decent-home that it has taken the Government 12 years to agree to standard. I am very proud of that; it is absolutely the dismantle the housing revenue account. jewel in Labour’s crown and we do not say enough about it. One of the reasons why we do not say enough Emily Thornberry: I will move on to discuss that about it is because, although we are now proud of the point about the HRA. Now, however, is perhaps the social housing that we have, people are in such overcrowded time that I ought to move on to another specific point. circumstances within inner London in that social housing. But before I do so, I will say that the analysis that I have I know that there are problems throughout the country, done on new build within Islington shows that, in the but the problems that are particularly associated with last 10 years, only one in seven new flats have been inner London are truly exceptional. Given those problems, social rented housing provided by the Liberal Democrats, I feel that we should have London-specific policies to which means that the housing waiting list continues to deal with them. get worse and worse, because people simply cannot afford to buy. Although I agree that, in an ideal world, it I am very proud to work on the Communities and would have been a very good idea for the Government Local Government Committee. I know that I am irritating not only to do up all the social housing within Islington in the extreme to my hon. Friend the Member for but to build more social housing, nevertheless it may be Milton Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey), who is the that reality steps in and there are limits in the budgets Chair of the Committee, in my overwhelming interest in thatwehave. housing. However, I have that interest because I try my The one thing that we could do and should do but utmost to be a proper representative of my constituents have not done in Islington is to stand up to developers and their desperate housing need. and say, “You cannot build in this area unless 50 per Having said that, there are other issues that I ought cent. of what you are going to build is affordable to raise at this point. It was very important—the Select housing and, in the Islington context, that is social Committee highlighted it in our report in February—that rented housing”. Because my local authority has not the Government stepped in, particularly given the credit done that and instead copped out of doing it, many crunch and the crisis in housing. We urged the Government opportunities have been lost. to step in, to ensure that the housing crisis would not The situation is not helped by the fact that much mean that there would be a lesser focus on housing. We publicly-owned land in Islington has been sold off by urged the Government to stick to their target for affordable the local authority, so that now the Government are homes that was set in 2007, to prioritise the provision of focusing on building more affordable housing—social more social rented housing within those targets and to rented housing, in my book—there is very little public invest more money in the homes that we need. land upon which we can now build social rented housing. In essence, the 13,000 families that are on the housing That is a great shame and the problem continues to this waiting list within Islington are not in a position to buy day. For example, in just two weeks City Forum was or part-buy; I assure the Minister that that is the case. given planning permission to build thousands of flats in That is because house prices are so high. I have written a very large area of Finsbury. City Forum is building a to the Minister about this issue and I have written again large amount of student properties. Frankly, we have to him explaining that house prices are now at such a enough students. I like students, but we have too many level in Islington that those families cannot even afford students. We have enough student accommodation as it to buy a proportion of a property. Within the parameters is and the precious land of Finsbury should not be used that the Department for Communities and Local to build more student accommodation. Of course, the Government have set, they still cannot afford to buy a problem with student accommodation is that it is planning- small one or two-bedroom, ex-council flat on the estates flat. It does not become part of any percentage section— in Islington. The house prices have moved beyond the 30 per cent., 20 per cent., 50 per cent., or whatever—that parameters set by the Department and I ask the Minister has to be met and so it just becomes neutral. Consequently, to look at that issue again. what always happens within a new development is that property for students is developed and whatever is left is In reality, for the people on the waiting list for social parcelled up to the absolute minimum that the developer housing within Islington affordable housing is social feels that they can get away with. Personally, I feel that rented housing. I believe that in my constituency in the we should be standing up to developers much more last 10 years, when the council has been run by the than we have been. We have lost an opportunity and we Liberal Democrats, the Liberal Democrats have had have lost too much land. People like Nelopa and Sarah their priorities entirely wrong. We should absolutely be are still languishing on the waiting list, because we have prioritising the building of social rented housing but far not been pragmatic and used the opportunities that too much part-ownership property has been built by the have been available to us. 155WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 156WH

[Emily Thornberry] present crisis, but thank goodness that it was created. Along with the Tenant Services Authority, it has been My local authority recently stated that it would build proactive in at least ameliorating the damage that has a handful of council houses to rent, and I welcome that. been done in the current difficult situation. At the same time, however, the Government are putting The reality is there for all to see: some people cannot together a fund to kick-start projects that have started get mortgages; others are worried about the future of to dwindle and to augment the work that local authorities their jobs, so they are concerned about moving home or are doing, and I am concerned that my local authority buying their first home. The fall in demand for housing has not stepped up to face the challenge. It has a has led to a dramatic decline in house building, but we handful of homes—that reveals the poverty of its argue in our reports that the need for housing is just as ambition—but it is not committed to building as many great as it was one or two years ago, even though there social rented houses as it can. It is bidding for some of is lack of immediate demand because people cannot the funding, and we welcomed that until we realised afford homes that they could have bought a year ago or from the small print that it wanted to use the funding because they are concerned about their future. There simply to replace money that it had put to one side to has also been a switch in the nature of immediate build more council housing. demand. For a long time, most people would look to That is not the purpose of the fund. If the Government buy, and that is what the Government focused on. are stepping in to give local authorities more money, There has been great excess demand for a long time, authorities should use it in addition to any money that and as we were reminded by my hon. Friend the Member they have set aside. It is wrong that we should end up for Islington, South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), with as little as we would have if the Government had there has been a chronic shortage of social housing to provided no additional money. I lobby the Government rent in many parts of the country. That is also true of to get additional funding for Islington, but then I see it my constituency. The position in Sheffield has been fly out the back door because the local authority uses variable. At one stage a few years ago, the Liberal other funding for other purposes. In the meantime, Democrat council was actually knocking council houses Nelopa and Sarah sit on the waiting list. down, which seems rather a mistake in hindsight, and it I understand that proposals to reform the housing is now looking to build houses on the same sites. That revenue account will be published during the recess. I happened in the north of the city, but the south, where realise that such reform is a complex, technical matter, my constituency is located, has always had a greater but if it means that local authorities can take the lead in shortage of social housing. We have not traditionally public housing programmes, it will be very welcome in had as many large council estates, and many of the Islington. It is vital that we get more money for new estates are very attractive, so large numbers of people homes in whatever way we can, and I understand that have exercised the right to buy. there are advantages to borrowing through housing Even before the credit crunch, therefore, housing associations, for example, because that does not add to need was very real and was often unmet. People are now the public debt. In the end, however, my constituents do waiting longer and longer to gain access to a home that not care whose tenant they are as long as they get meets their needs. With the credit crunch, people who somewhere to live. might have bought a couple of years ago cannot buy or Many of us were interested in the suggestion that choose not to do so, so demand for social housing has councils could borrow in ways that were seen as gone up even further. “reasonable”, “prudential” or “sustainable”, but will At CLG questions the other day, I mentioned the the Minister explain what that might mean in practice? case of Katie Wilson, who is one of my constituents. Furthermore, I would ask the Government to ensure She tried all the Government schemes to get part-ownership that tenants of councils such as Islington are protected of a house, and she failed at every hurdle. Eventually, from changes in the HRA subsidy system. For a variety she had to fall back on her position on the waiting list, of historical reasons, such councils have large debts to which she has been on for about 17 years. She simply service, and it is vital that Islington tenants do not wants a home to rent in the part of the city where she suffer as that debt is repaid. grew up and where her family lives. That is not a big Finally, I turn to the balance of tenure among new thing to ask for. She now informs me that she is renting homes, and I underline once more the importance of privately for £500 a month, which is quite a lot for social rented housing—in the end, that is what is important people on low incomes and quite a high rent for Sheffield. to those on the council waiting list in Islington. The The problem is repeated elsewhere. I probably will strategic role of local authorities is vital and the HRA not have as many absolutely disastrous cases as my hon. review is important, but it is for politicians and campaigners Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury— to debate the issues before us. The view of those on the however bad the position is in the south of Sheffield, it waiting list is that we need more social rented housing. is even worse in the south of Islington—but I have an In Islington, we will be pragmatic and take that housing awful lot of very bad cases. My heart sinks, just as my however we can, because we have an absolute crisis. hon. Friend’s does, when somebody walks into my surgery and says, “Mr. Betts, we’ve got this really serious 3.12 pm housing case. Can you sort it out for us?” They will go through all the facts, and I will sit there listening. I will Mr. Clive Betts (Sheffield, Attercliffe) (Lab): I begin say “I absolutely agree with you. We should be able to where the Chairman of the Committee, my hon. Friend house you. I see your circumstances.” They may want to the Member for Milton Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey) live near a parent with real caring needs, or their bus left off—with the Homes and Communities Agency. route may have changed, so they have to move to keep Obviously, the agency was not created to deal with the their job. They may also want to move near a grandparent 157WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 158WH who can look after the kids, so that they and their They currently live five miles away, so it’s all a bit partner can work—that has become increasingly common difficult. We’re really upset because someone has just over the years. However, I sit there thinking, “They’ve moved in as homeless, and we understand from talking got a very strong case, but so had the last three people I to them that they have only been on the housing list for saw, and none of them is probably going to get re-housed two weeks. Our children have been on it for 12 years. in the foreseeable future.” Why”—this is just the way that people think—“couldn’t The need for social rented housing is there and it has they have had the home that my children want to leave, become greater. Our latest report therefore welcomes so that they could move near us? As things stand, the Government’s extra £1.5 billion, which comes on they’re just going to tread water on that housing list and top of the money that was previously made available. never move anywhere near the top of it.” That extra money has been offered to local authorities I thoroughly understand that if people are homeless, to build homes for rent, and it is great even in principle with children, in priority need and not intentionally that we are building council houses again. Some of us homeless, they must be found a home, but there must be remember the days when we had major house building a better way to allocate properties than by saying that, programmes, and they were not all disasters. People because they are in immediate need, they get whatever often say, “Look at the high-rises that were built,” but house is available in any area, at the expense of people they probably forget that councils tended to build to who have been waiting for that area for good personal Government direction in those days, and it was a national reasons and for a long time. The Government have got policy that sent us down that route. However, councils that right, and it will be interesting to see the guidance also built many attractive houses, and I hope that we and local authorities’ response. can get into that business again. There will be a bit of a learning curve for many authorities, and it will take a I welcome the housing revenue account decision. We bit of time to get the process going. had a good sitting of the Select Committee, with the However, councils must be prepared to put their land Housing Minister, the other day. I pressed for a long in for free. If the Government are putting in social time for the decision, which will give local authorities— housing grant, councils must make a financial contribution, particularly those with arm’s length management too. I have certainly encouraged Sheffield city council organisations—greater certainty. The other day, I chaired to do that. It is Liberal Democrat controlled, but all five a meeting of the all-party group on arm’s length Labour MPs in the city put a letter in our local paper, management organisations, and the message that came The Star, the other day saying that social housing is an across clearly was that we need stability for ALMOs; absolute priority. We said that we could work on the they are an excellent development that brings tenants issue across the political divide and that we were prepared more into the management of homes, but many tenants to offer the council any support and assistance that we are concerned about their instability, because of the could when it bids for Government money, because complications of the housing revenue account and their housing is crucial for the people who we represent. inability to plan financially for the longer term. In our report, we raise another question, which the Tenants have got the message, and the officers who Minister probably cannot answer today.A new programme came from ALMOs all over the country said that the of council house building cannot just be a quick fix for quicker that the reform could be achieved the better, our current economic crisis and housing problems. There because it would provide enough financial certainty for is a long-term problem with providing more social things to move on. The Minister told the Committee the housing, and councils must play a real role in tackling it other day that he might have to get the agreement of all in the long term. We would like a commitment from the councils, because of the need to transfer debt between Government on that. We know that there are uncertainties them; however, he said he might look at allowing those about future public finances, and we always hear that councils that wanted to become involved in the health and education are a priority—the Leader of the arrangements, after the two-month consultation period, Opposition certainly makes that clear, although the to opt for the new scheme even if all authorities had not Opposition then talk about reductions in public expenditure, come in and primary legislation was needed to bring so we get the horrible feeling that housing might be one them in. I hope that the Minister will consider that, of the areas where they are talking about making reductions. because speed is of the essence and we do not want We must make it clear not only that social and rented ALMOs to start to unravel because of financial problems housing is a priority for us now, but that it will continue and the inherent instability of the current system. to be so in the future. I agree that the decent homes programme is a major Allocations are a difficult issue, but I was pleased step forward, but ALMOs want to move on now and with the Government’s announcement the other day. I ensure that they have the resources to maintain their accept that there are differences in different parts of the stock to those high standards—even to improve them, country, and I have explained my understanding of the particularly by energy-saving measures. They also want even greater pressures in parts of London, but I have to build new homes. The Minister spoke to us about the had concerns for a long time—the new Housing Minister need for equity in financial arrangements between those and the Secretary of State recognise them—about people authorities that have not carried out stock transfers and being on the waiting list for years and never getting the those that have and about the ability that he hopes to priority that would enable them to secure the homes develop for authorities to borrow prudentially against that become available. the rental streams from their homes, which would enable The classic case is something that happens regularly. the new building to happen. That is an interesting People come to my surgery and say, “Mr. Betts, a house development, which can put more money into social has come up down the road, and our children would rented housing in the future and take us on from our like to move into it, so we can look after the grandchildren. current position. 159WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 160WH

[Mr. Clive Betts] Skills and capacity in the construction industry are relevant. The last thing that we want, after the present The Government have acted well on repossessions. collapse in house building, is not to be able to bring it The Committee was concerned, in the initial report, back. That happened in the recession at the end of the about whether the protocol would work. However, because 1980s and 1990s. The industry took an awfully long of the fall in the number of repossessions forecast by time to come back, because the skills had gone. We may the Council of Mortgage Lenders, there is probably eventually get some skills recycled from the Olympic more confidence now that the protocol may be ameliorating sites in the south. We probably will not get the same some of the worst effects. Ways are being found, with number of people from eastern Europe as we have had, the deferment of interest payments, to help people who because those economies are starting to improve in the are in difficulties whose homes might have been repossessed longer term and real wages are growing in the countries in past recessions. The bringing forward of help through in question. We may not be able to rely on Poles and the support for mortgage interest scheme—it now starts Czechs to come and build, as they were doing before the at three months, rather than nine months—has undoubtedly credit crunch. saved many people from getting into even worse debt, We must think about how to retain skills and bring and that is welcome, too. I have already commented on more skills into the industry, as a matter of urgency. It is the mortgage rescue scheme. a question of encouraging young people to go into the I hope that the Government will come forward soon, schemes in colleges and start training, even though having previously announced an intention to act, with there may not be a job immediately at the end of the measures to deal with the problem of private tenants line. The Government must think about that. Some who unwittingly find that they are in a property that is young people who went into apprenticeship schemes going to be repossessed, where the lender did not know through the colleges a few months ago are starting to that a tenancy had been created. The tenants are there say, “What’s the point? There won’t be a job when we’ve in all good faith but have virtually no standing in law at finished our time in college.” That is a challenge for the present. That is an important issue on which we need Government. to act. Another challenge for the Government is to consider Finally, I want to emphasise three issues that emerged the future for private rented housing. It has a bad from the report. First, in our second report, we came image; there is some pretty awful, squalid stuff out back to the asset-backed securities guarantee scheme. there. The all-party group on urban development did a Everyone thought that the Government acted with report that included the issue a few months ago, with commendable speed to the Crosby review, but unfortunately the support of the British Property Federation. It recognised did not get the answer quite right, because the scheme is in the past that some property developers might like the not working. John Heron of the Intermediary Mortgage commercial property model to come into play in housing. Lenders Association told the Select Committee that In that model, the developers develop the housing, although the association was retain ownership and manage it to a high standard, rather than just selling it on to some landlord who “impressed with the Asset-backed Guarantee Scheme that was would probably not be as interested. The developer announced and subsequently introduced, it is a great shame that would become very concerned about the standard of it falls short of its objectives.” the property it was building, because it would be managing He said: it in the future. “There is only so much risk that a government-sponsored The ideas are interesting, and the Government must scheme can reasonably take, and that is the position they are in, get the financing right to help with them. Currently, the but the problem with that is that it is rather like half a leap across commercial property world is probably as lacking in a chasm: very impressive but doomed to failure.” confidence as the house building world, because it has The Government are halfway there, but currently the suffered a major collapse in its values in the past few scheme is not working. months. However, I think that it would be an interesting way to provide additional high-quality rented housing I accept that it is a Treasury responsibility to deal for the future—perhaps for different groups of people, with the matter, but I hope that the Minister has been who are younger and more socially mobile. That would listening and will go straight to knock on the Treasury add badly needed housing to the stock. door to see whether improvement to the scheme can be made quicker. It is crucial that, as well as dealing with I have covered some of the key items in the report, the issues of social rented housing on which I have which was well timed, with good suggestions. I welcome concentrated, we should get some money back into the what the Government have done so far, but some things mortgage market. It is not just a matter of using the that still need to be done have been identified. retail savings; we need to get the wholesale market 3.29 pm moving, and clearly, at present, that is not happening. The concern is not only that the money is not available, Mr. Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): but that the rates of interest being charged are starting I draw attention to the interest declared in the Register to rise. Five-year fixed rates have gone up by about two of Members’ Interests. percentage points in the past month, and those were the I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Milton most attractive rates. In the current circumstances, a Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey) and her Committee high cost on fixed or variable rates is probably a bit on an admirably thorough, thoughtful and constructive worrying for many people, particularly if they fear report on a complex subject. I also congratulate my losing their job or have already lost it, or are on short-time hon. Friend the Minister on his new appointment. He working. Getting that money back into the mortgage comes into an important post at a challenging time, and market is crucial. I wish him every success. 161WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 162WH

There is no question but that the state of the housing helping to avoid unnecessary repossessions, assisting in market and the consequent challenges that it presents is the acquisition and construction of additional homes, hugely important for all of us. It is the biggest economic and intervention to facilitate the continuation of challenge that the country has faced for decades, and regeneration schemes that otherwise might not have the downturn, as we all know, has impacted particularly been viable and would have stalled. I have not mentioned sharply on the housing market. There are implications the whole range of measures, but they have been an not just for people who aspire to own their home. heroic response to a very serious challenge. I compliment Throughout the housing market, people’s ability to the Government on recognising the scale of the problem secure affordable housing, whether to own or to rent, is and the degree to which they have responded. challenged by the current economic circumstances. Against The cumulative impact of the range of measures has that background, the Government’s response to the been important in limiting the scale of the damage, challenge has been energetic, comprehensive and which could have been greater than it has been. During imaginative. I contrast that with the experience during an intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for the recession of the early 1990s when the then Government Milton Keynes, I referred to the Council of Mortgage took a long time to recognise the scale of the problem Lenders’ latest forecast of repossessions. Some 60,000 affecting the housing market. Their responses, when homes are expected to be repossessed this year, and that they came, were fragmented, and some were not very is not comfortable, but it is still better than the 75,000 effective. that was forecast a few months ago. That is an example of limiting the damage. Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con): The right hon. Gentleman’s knowledge of housing matters is supreme, Sarah Teather: I am listening to the right hon. except in one regard. Does he recall the number of Gentleman’s speech with interest. Will he acknowledge affordable homes that were built in 1992? I seem to that the CML said that it downgraded its forecast partly remember that the figure was 70,000. because of the Government’s intervention, but also Mr. Raynsford: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman because interest rates are very low, which has prevented for raising that, because it is a classic illustration of the some of the repossessions that might otherwise have then Government’s response being fragmented and not happened? entirely effective. After spending a long time wondering how to deal with the problem, they devised something Mr. Raynsford: I accept that entirely. Interest rates known as the housing market package, which was additional are down, but the hon. Lady will recall that the CML’s funding for the Housing Corporation to enable housing previous forecast was issued after interest rates reached associations to go out and buy properties on the open the current level, so we are dealing with a static position. market. They did, but the problem was that they bought Its latest revision downwards is against a background of a lot of poor-quality property, and were subsequently a similar interest rate position as that which it took into faced with serious problems of managing properties account when making its previous forecast. that were not of a sufficient standard, or size in many cases, for social housing needs. Grant Shapps: With the exception of last year, will That is exactly one of the lessons from the past that I the right hon. Gentleman remind us of when the CML and others have been pointing out to the Government did not, in the year in question, revise its estimate for the past year and a half. It is helpful during a down? recession for Government agencies to use resources to acquire empty properties, which should not be left Mr. Raynsford: I cannot give a detailed response, but empty when there are housing needs, but the acquisitions I will look at the figures and will happily respond to the must be carefully chosen to ensure that they are of a hon. Gentleman in writing. sufficient size and quality to provide decent homes for It is important that there has been a downward the people who will be renting them. revision, because many people might have expected the When people buy a home, it may be a loose fit. They figure to go in the opposite direction. I certainly recall may buy a house that is larger than they need. They can that in those difficult days of the early 1990s the repossession choose to have extra space, and if they find that they are figures escalated upwards, and the trend was extremely a bit cramped, they can move on if they have the worrying and in the wrong direction. What we are resources to do so. When people are allocated a social seeing now is a serious rise in repossessions—that is a housing tenancy, they are usually allocated a home with cause for real concern—but the latest projections are a tight fit that is sufficient for their needs at that time, slightly lower than previously forecast. but not with spare bedrooms. The opportunities to move are often limited. It is important to maintain the Sarah Teather: Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise quality and attractiveness of the social housing stock that many economists have been saying that although and not to make ill-advised acquisitions. That is one the figures may have come down in the short term, there reason why I am partly, although not wholly, critical of is a worry that the long fuse of unemployment may the then Government’s response to the recession in the result in repossessions later? The former chief economist early 1990s. of HSBC has said that there may be 100,000 repossessions Not all the present Government’s measures have been come 2011 or 2012. I am afraid that the story is not wholly successful either, but they have been wide-ranging, over, and it would be unacceptable for us to be complacent. and have included measures affecting the mortgage market, people’s ability to acquire shared equity products Mr. Raynsford: The hon. Lady will see from Hansard and other means of bridging the gap between the cost that my remarks showed no complacency whatever. of a property and their ability to raise mortgage finance, They indicated concern about the problem, but noted 163WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 164WH

[Mr. Raynsford] creditworthiness of the people involved. The sub-prime market in the United States was a classic illustration of that the latest CML forecast showed a slightly less that, but there were many similar illustrations in the worrying pattern than previously expected. I believe UK and the lenders burnt their fingers badly. Why they that that is the result of Government intervention, as have not recognised the need for more thoughtful attention well as the impact of relatively favourable interest rates. to the individual loan, I do not fully understand. I hope I accept entirely that that may not continue if interest that that issue will be considered more thoroughly. rates begin to rise, and particularly if a continued rise in I am extremely wary of the people who argue that unemployment causes people to have difficulty in regulatory formulae should be imposed such as a ban maintaining their mortgage. on loans of more than a particular per cent., for precisely I am not for a moment minimising the problem, but the reason that I gave in responding to the hon. Member we need a serious, thorough and thoughtful response, for Brent, East (Sarah Teather). There may be circumstances rather than simply trying to pick up figures that may in which an advance of more than 100 per cent. is make national headlines. To illustrate that, the Nationwide justified, even today. A tick-box approach that sets building society recently and sensibly accepted the need arbitrary figures and requires all lending to fall within to provide mortgage advances of more than 100 per that does not satisfy what I believe should be the key cent. to people in negative equity. If people with negative criterion, which is a proper assessment of the equity need to move home, they are trapped unless such creditworthiness of the individual and their ability to mortgage facilities are available. service a loan on a property that hopefully will provide The hon. Lady will recall the torrent of abuse on the adequate security. Those are the factors that should be Nationwide from various media, implying that it was taken into account, and mortgage lenders should be reverting to the pattern of generous loan-to-value ratios giving more attention to that. among lenders before the credit crunch. We now want We also need to consider how to assist people who for lenders to be more cautious, but we do not want them the moment cannot acquire a loan because the percentage to be unthinkingly cautious and to swing the pendulum that a lender is willing to offer falls far below their from one extreme to another without recognising the ability to raise a deposit. The range of shared equity need to be attentive to the requirements of individual models that the Government have promoted and that households. If those households can afford to meet the are offered by housing associations, the Homes and repayments, a loan of more than 100 per cent. may be Communities Agency and some house builders have an justified. That illustrates my concern that we should important role to play. I welcome the attention given to have a serious debate about the issues, rather than one those options, which assist people whose income is that is driven all too often in the media by headline sufficient to repay a loan to secure a mortgage advance figures and scare stories that do not prompt a full and to buy a property, rather than being trapped in a understanding of the complexity of some of the issues. position in which they believe that their only option is I want now to talk predominantly about two issues: to look for social rented housing—of course, that increases the availability of credit, and the types of intervention even further the pressure on individuals looking for that are most appropriate to help to ease our way social renting. through these very difficult times. I have said that banks and mortgage lenders have swung like a pendulum from Grant Shapps: The right hon. Gentleman has been one extreme to the other in the past two years. From a most generous in taking interventions. I hear what he is position in which they were lending money in a way that saying about shared equity schemes. Is he, then, as many people believed was very imprudent, they have disturbed as I am to hear that the Government cancelled now switched off the tap so that many people who the most popular of those schemes—Ownhome could service a mortgage on a new property are finding HomeBuy—just a fortnight ago? it impossible to acquire a loan. We have gone from feast to famine very rapidly. Mr. Raynsford: This is an interesting story, and it is The problem with that is that in too many cases not a new one. That scheme, which enabled people to lenders are using the credit crunch as an excuse for acquire a property of their choice on the open market, restricting the availability of mortgage lending, rather followed in a long line of similar schemes, of which than doing what they should do, which is to examine perhaps the most famous historically was known as closely the individual circumstances of the applicant DIYSO—do it yourself shared ownership. That followed and to judge, on a proper assessment of the applicant a similar model. The individual identified a property and the property, whether the loan is a prudent one to that they wanted to buy and then went to a lender and make and, if so, what percentage of the value it is secured a shared ownership advance on that property. reasonable to offer as a mortgage advance. The scheme was popular with the public, but unfortunately I would like to see mortgage lenders moving back to it was rather expensive in terms of public subsidy and what they used to do, which was to examine closely the did not deliver quite the same benefit as a more targeted individual circumstances and creditworthiness of the scheme. people involved and the condition of the property, At a time when we are looking to assist developers to rather than have the tick-box mentality that has become begin to develop again, when we want to generate new part of the mortgage lending culture, in which if people homes and when we want, as my hon. Friend the satisfy a particular percentage, they get a loan, and if Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts) rightly not, they do not. Often the judgement is made with highlighted, to ensure that we are sustaining capacity little or no regard to their circumstances. That partly and skills in the construction industry, it may be right explains why the mortgage lending business got into for the Government to put the focus on the elements of such a mess: it made many loans without examining the homebuy that are geared towards supporting new 165WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 166WH construction and new building, rather than assisting I would like to say some words about the expansion people to buy properties on the open market. I rather of affordable and social housing. That expansion is regretted the passing of DIYSO, because it was popular, essential and has been called for on many sides. We all and I regret the fact that the Government have taken recognise the need not only to deal with the large what seems to be a very negative stance on the latest backlog of people in need, but to ensure that we sustain formulation, but I understand the logic in times when capacity and support a recovery faster than would finance is inevitably very tight and there is a clear wish occur otherwise. I am concerned to ensure that we do to use public resource to best effect. not lurch back into what I believe was one of the most As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, pernicious characteristics of housing in the last century—the South-West rightly said, the Homes and Communities social segregation of people according to tenure. Agency is playing a vital role in the current situation The pattern of building single-tenure estates, with and, had it not existed, there would undoubtedly be a social housing uniquely for social tenants in one area, strong case for creating it. I pay tribute to Sir Bob and owner-occupied homes uniquely for home buyers Kerslake and his team. What they have managed to do in another, has not served us well and is an historical in very difficult circumstances is remarkable. The agency anomaly. Traditionally, it was not the case that people was created against a background of expectation that it of different economic circumstances lived in entirely would drive an expansion programme. When the agency segregated areas. Of course, richer people lived in larger, came into existence at the end of last year, it was clearly pleasanter and more attractive homes or, in some medieval in a completely different context, in which it had to towns I can think of, in the larger and more attractive operate a rescue scheme to assist the housing market to rooms of a house that was also occupied by poorer come through the worst crisis that it had faced for many people. That was the pattern historically. People of years. Sir Bob Kerslake and his team have responded different economic circumstances did not have to live admirably to the challenge. We are already seeing, in a geographically segregated from each other. series of ways, results that are testimony to their effectiveness. One of the great Housing Ministers in the history of I sincerely hope that they can continue to intervene in a this country, and one of the great figures of the party range of ways to help individual new schemes to go that I am proud to be a member of—Aneurin Bevan—made ahead—sometimes regeneration schemes that would a famous speech on the subject in the 1940s, and talked otherwise have stalled. Such interventions allow an about his dream of seeing a community where the increase in the output of social rented and affordable doctor, the greengrocer, the artisan and the baker all housing, and ensure that the skills base is maintained lived in the same street and were not segregated. We and capacity retained in various parts of the country must retain that vision of social cohesion and communities where that is necessary. They also ensure that people that are not segregated by tenure. can afford to obtain housing that otherwise they would Earlier this week, I was pleased to be present at the not be able to. The HCA plays a vital role. launch of a new Fabian pamphlet, “In the mix”, which My concern is about the lukewarm position of the strongly endorses the case for sustaining mixed-tenure Opposition in relation to the HCA. I hope that the hon. housing and building mixed communities. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) can amplify his party’s position when he responds to these comments, Emily Thornberry: I agree with my right hon. Friend. because I recall that when we were members of the My only concern is that sometimes his remarks might Committee that considered the Bill that became the be misunderstood, and it could be thought that the two Housing and Regeneration Act 2008, which brought of us are at opposite purposes. I entirely agree that we the HCA into effect, there were quite strong voices in need to have mixed communities. Within a constituency his party that questioned whether the agency had any such as mine, there are streets containing people from purpose and whether it should come into existence. I all sorts of backgrounds, and small estates next door to am pleased that he has not been adopting a strident line the Lord Chancellor’s residence. We are a very mixed of promising the abolition of the agency, unlike some of community, but we do not have enough social rented his colleagues, who seem to believe that calling for a housing. bonfire of the quangos is a good news story. It may be. It may get a cheap headline, rather like the headlines Mr. Raynsford: As my hon. Friend will recall, I about mortgage lending of more than 100 per cent., but stressed the importance of increasing the output of it may be wrong. In the position that we are in at the social rented housing and other affordable housing. My moment, an agency that has shown itself to be so comments are about the importance of ensuring that competent in addressing the problems and challenges of we do not lurch back into the pattern of mono-tenure a very difficult market, that has given confidence in estates. There are some pretty nasty examples of those—I relation to a series of regeneration schemes that otherwise think of the Ferrier estate in my own constituency would not have happened, that has assisted with maintaining that is currently being demolished. The last thing we output of social and affordable housing at a higher level want to do is spend money producing housing that is than otherwise would have been possible and that is so unsatisfactory that it has to be pulled down 30 or helping to restore confidence in the market is vital. 40 years after it was built. Instead, we should produce During the run-up to a general election, it would be environments where people will be happy to live for damaging for there to be speculation about the continued centuries, because they are built to a high standard and existence of the Homes and Communities Agency, were achieve the level of social integration that I and my hon. the Conservative party to form the next Government. I Friend feel is essential. hope that the hon. Gentleman will put our minds at rest that that agency, which has played a vital role, will Sarah Teather: This issue is often characterised by continue to be able to do so, whatever the outcome of saying that we can achieve a sustainable mix by having the general election. homes for ownership, and affordable social houses for 167WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 168WH

[Sarah Teather] forgotten. When we produced large numbers of houses, they were not always of good quality, and I have referred rent next door to one another, or within the same estate. to some poor-quality social housing estates that have However, we could also have lots of different types of had to be demolished. Equally unsatisfactory were the housing for rent. I wish that we could think more unsustainable private estates that were built to low flexibly about that, especially at a time when it is difficult densities with poor energy efficiency standards. They to get mortgages for shared equity properties, for example, now contribute seriously towards the problem of global or even to sell at market value. warming, but that would take me into another subject that does not form part of this debate. Mr. Raynsford: The hon. Lady makes a good point. I will conclude my remarks by congratulating the Diversity does not stop at outright ownership, shared Government on the steps that have been taken to date. ownership and social rented housing. Of course we We are not anywhere near being out of the woods; we want a wider mix of options. Some of the good options still face huge problems and, during the years ahead, we now being looked at include the “rent now, buy later” must sustain the kind of commitment that there has scheme, which would help people who are not currently already been. I hope that the Opposition will also show able to raise mortgage finance, but who probably will be a commitment to sustaining and keeping in place agencies able to afford to buy in due course and are therefore such as the Homes and Communities Agency, which given an option to rent in the short term. I wholly can help to ensure that this country continues to respond endorse the comments from hon. Members on both to the huge challenges in the housing market. sides of the Chamber about the merits of looking for ways to attract more institutional investment into the private rented sector, so as to provide more good-quality 3.59 pm private rented housing. Sarah Teather (Brent, East) (LD): The report is most Diversity of tenure is absolutely crucial. Economically, useful, and I congratulate the Select Committee on a it is a good safeguard against the kind of problems that timely and interesting contribution to the debate. we have seen over the past two years. Where there is The Committee made a number of recommendations diversity of tenure, there are options for people to move and conclusions, most particularly on the need to continue between tenure if they are in difficulty. It should not building social housing and affordable housing to rent, be only a one-way process of people moving from a a point made by the hon. Members for Islington, South rented tenure into owner-occupation. There are many and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) and for Sheffield, circumstances where people in owner-occupation might Attercliffe (Mr. Betts). I agree with the recommendation find it easier to move into rented accommodation. That that it is more sensible for the Government to focus on could be to remove the burden of meeting mortgage affordable housing for rent rather than on low-cost obligations that they find difficult to satisfy, or because home ownership models, because of the difficulties of they do not want to continue with the obligations of selling caused by the unavailability of mortgage finance. maintaining the property if they are getting elderly and The right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich require support and help. A more diverse tenure pattern (Mr. Raynsford) spoke of the need for sustainable is admirable, and something that we should work for. communities and how they could be achieved. In a sense, we have an ideal opportunity to do that, given the Emily Thornberry: What my right hon. Friend says Government’s policy of dealing with housing developments is thought provoking. Would he be equally critical being started but not completed, and the money being of private developments, particularly gated private provided to the Homes and Communities Agency to developments, where there is no mixture of tenure invest in private development. We have an opportunity at all? to drive that model forward. I hope that the Government will think seriously about mixing different types of Mr. Raynsford: Of course. That is the obverse side of rented tenure. It does not necessarily have to be a the coin and is a consequence of what I believe was a long-term solution. terrible mistake made during the last century—that of The hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe, who is no segregating households between tenure. The obverse of longer in his place, asked whether we could encourage the sink estate, which is stigmatised because it is seen developers to continue owning properties and renting as solely housing poor people in unsatisfactory them, and whether they would then take a particular accommodation, is the “exclusive” gated community of interest in the quality of their developments. If the exclusively wealthy people who have said, “We don’t taxpayer is to invest in property, we have an opportunity want anyone else anywhere near us, and we are putting to ensure a mix of tenure, with affordable housing to a barrier around our homes to keep other people out”. rent, and intermediate and private rent. We should not That is why the policy is so wrong. It results in social focus on the model of home ownership, part or wholly exclusion and social segregation rather than the kind of owned, and affordable housing for rent as being the inclusive and more coherent society that I believe we only option for mixed tenure. It is not. We need to should promote. We must not, even in difficult times, progress that model quickly, particularly as the taxpayer forget the longer-term objective, which is the creation of is about to invest in certain developments. a housing market that satisfies the full range of needs with a choice of options and tenures, and a strong Emily Thornberry: Will the hon. Lady join me in commitment to quality. condemning Boris Johnson for changing the mix of In the past, when the focus was on housing numbers— affordable housing in London from a 70:30 split— there are some indications that in recent years that has 70 for social-rented housing and 30 for intermediate again become a focus—there was a risk that quality was ownership—to 60:40? If she joins me in that, will she 169WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 170WH join me also in condemning Islington Liberal Democrats, would have anticipated the statement, but if local authorities who in their planning strategy consultation favour a are agreeable to the proposals once the consultation is 50:50 split? completed, they could go ahead without the need for primary legislation. I understood from the Minister Sarah Teather: We all want to ensure that housing is that primary legislation would be required if not all built, and that we have as much affordable housing as local authorities agreed to the scheme. possible, but the means of achieving it is a matter for I hope that Members of all political parties could put debate. The Government’s insistence on particular targets it strongly to council leaders that although the outcome for various local authorities does not seem to have may not be precisely what they would wish and may not worked. They have been unable to deliver. Whether we be quite as advantageous to their councils as they will be able to deliver more through negotiation I do not might, in the best possible circumstances, have wished, know. I like to think that negotiation and consensus are there is an opportunity for compromise. If the Local a better way of delivering more housing, but we shall Government Association were able to get all its members have to see what happens. As the hon. Lady would to agree, the changes could go ahead without the need expect, however, I do not join her in condemning Islington for primary legislation, to the benefit of the generality Liberal Democrats. Indeed, she was most unwise to of councils even if one or two had to bite a slightly invite me to do so—but it was a nice try. I was trying to bitter bullet and take slightly less than they hoped for. make a serious point. I attend many housing debates in Westminster Hall, and they are usually more thoughtful. Sarah Teather: Unfortunately, the Minister left part Sadly, however, a lot of straw men were built this way through the suggestion made by the Chair of the afternoon and then knocked down. Select Committee, so we will not know— The Committee’s report helpfully focused on the need to maintain skills in the building and construction Joan Walley (in the Chair): Order. The Minister left industry. If we lose those skills, it may take a decade to with my approval. regain them, but there is a desperate need to continue building. I accept that there are problems with continuing Sarah Teather: The hon. Lady’s intervention was to build as a result of the unavailability of private helpful. I hope that the Government will bring forward finance and so on, but if those skills are lost in the long proposals that are agreeable to all councils. The devil term it will create a massive bubble in house price will be in the detail. My council, like many London inflation. That will have a knock-on effect for a decade councils, is in receipt of subsidy; the question is what or more. Unless we focus on maintaining the industry’s will happen to it. We have argued that that subsidy capacity, we shall regret it for a long time. should be paid out of general taxation. It is untenable I realise that the Government have brought forward for poor council tenants in areas such as Cambridge or finance for the HCA and that the agency has been Kingston, who pay a lot into the system, to have to trying to be more flexible in working with housing subsidise repairs for tenants in my area. It should be associations, which have struggled to continue building paid out of general taxation—by those who can afford with the cross-subsidy model. That finance has taken to do so. time to filter through, however, and housing associations I do not know what model the Government will use. are still concerned about Treasury targets on subsidy Authorities such as mine will be in a difficult position if per unit. Even if the finance is brought forward now, they lose money and later find themselves unable to they may find a hole later and be unable to achieve the borrow in order to build. The Government’s approach Government’s targets. matters. We have been arguing the point for 10 or The most obvious thing that the Government could 15 years, but if they require local authorities to buy have done earlier—it would have made a significant themselves out of negative subsidy, something that they difference—was to give councils the power to build. have considered previously, it will be a disaster for Unfortunately, the House rises next week, and the authorities such as Cambridge. If they do not top up Government will not produce their consultation on the subsidy for authorities such as Brent, that, too, will be a housing revenue account until Thursday 23 July. Giving disaster. We shall have to wait to discover what model councils the power to build would have made more they propose, but I would not want to push all authorities difference than anything else that the Government could to agree to something that might be highly detrimental have done, and it is frustrating that it has taken them to their tenants. I hope that the Government bring so long. forward something that is useful. If councils are to build more property, they will need I feel a little frustrated that the Government are access to HCA grants; they will also need to be certain publishing the consultation document on 23 July, as the of their revenue stream, their rental income and their House rises the day before. I presume that the consultation asset base. I do not know what will be in that consultation will run throughout the recess, so there will be no document, or what mechanism the Government propose opportunity to debate it in Parliament. If the consultation in order to deal with the question of negative and proposes something that is not helpful to local authority positive subsidy. However, there is no legislation in local residents, we will not be able to raise the matter place to enact it in the short term, so I see no prospect with the Minister in Parliament until October. By then, of it being introduced in this Session. I dare say that the Department for Communities and Local Government will have closed the consultation. Dr. Starkey: Perhaps I can help the hon. Lady on that That would be deeply regrettable. last point. The Committee took evidence from the Had the Government dealt with the issue 10 years Minister for Housing this Monday on proposals for the ago—or even three or four years ago—or brought forward HRA. Obviously, he was not totally explicit, as that the consultation, local authorities may have been in a 171WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 172WH

[Sarah Teather] Member for Greenwich and Woolwich on the issue of long-term projections for repossessions, he responded position to push forward with building and to be at the by saying that there was an issue around mortgages and forefront of the fiscal stimulus that the Government mortgage finance. However, I did not criticise that were hoping to introduce. Although I said that the particular building society for offering more than 100 per Government have brought forward money, there are cent. mortgages to people in specific circumstances who other things that they should have done. Instead of want to move. making a VAT cut, they should have invested the money My hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) in building housing. However, not all the money that raised the issue in a debate here at the end of June. We has been allocated for the VAT cut has been spent, so often focus on the short term, with the consequent the Government could still reverse the decision and danger that we forestall repossessions. At some point, build 10,000 to 20,000 more homes, which would make interest rates will almost certainly rise. People in negative a considerable difference, and help to keep the building equity have found themselves unable to move their industry alive. mortgage. It is not necessarily about moving house; If the Government are going to cut VAT, they should they may be unable to get another fixed deal. Lots of cut VAT on renovation and rebuild. That would significantly people who are over-mortgaged have been accustomed help to keep skills in the construction industry and to moving their mortgage every three or four years to ensure that building work continues. Moreover, it would another fixed deal. That may not be a healthy situation, help us to deal with the issue of empty properties, which but it is how an awful lot of young people on a mid-range was touched on in the report when it dealt with areas of salary cope with buying a property. They will find that unsold properties. That problem is one of the consequences they are unable to move. When interest rates rise, some of the recession. We will see a heavy rise in the number of them will inevitably fall into arrears. of empty properties. Dealing with such properties will There may be a time lag with unemployment, which be made much easier if we were to reduce the VAT level is what we almost always see in recessions. Unemployment on renovation and rebuild. figures tend to lag behind what is happening with the I hope that the Minister will focus on the issue of economy, so even when the economy starts to pick up, empty properties when he makes his reply. I am hoping redundancies will continue for six, nine or even 12 months that his civil servants are taking note of some of the down the line. Many of those people will fall into things that I am saying, or that someone will read my arrears and some will lose their homes. I do not mention comments in Hansard. Half of the hon. Members who the figure of 100,000 to try to create scare stories. I just have contributed to the debate seem to have left the want the Government to think in the long term about Chamber during my speech. That is the normal situation how we are going to plan for the future of those people. that Liberal Democrats face when they speak in debates. Not all of the mechanisms that have been introduced None the less, it is not particularly courteous. will help them in the long term. As I said, I think that we will see a considerable rise in the number of empty properties. I should like to hear Mr. Raynsford: Does the hon. Lady accept that had what the Government will do with major regeneration the Government not intervened in the way in which projects, which was an issue touched on in the report. they have done to try to reduce the incidence of We have a major new deal project in my own constituency. repossessions and to restore some confidence to the I met with teams from pathfinders projects this week. If mortgage market, it might well be that the kind of there are problems with private finance and cross-subsidy, figures that she is talking about will already have happened, such projects tend to stall for a period of time. That will and we would be talking not about scare stories but cause difficulties, especially if there has been stock about human casualties? If that is the case, will she give transfer or people moving out of an area. We will see some credit to the Government for acting in a way that whole streets or estates being emptied for an extensive has helped to limit the extent of the problem? period of time—much longer than was anticipated during the regeneration project. Sarah Teather: The right hon. Gentleman has not I should like the Government to encourage local been in quite as many housing debates in this place as I authorities, pathfinders and new deal projects to make have in the past three or four months. better use of short-life housing. Perhaps they need to provide incentives in the form of grants and loans. They Mr. Raynsford: That is not true. could work with local co-operative organisations and even private companies. Whatever they do, they must Sarah Teather: The right hon. Gentleman has in the ensure that housing is not lying empty because that will past 10 or 15 years, but not in the past three months. If reduce confidence in an area. We must boost the sense he had been in any of the debates in which I have that something is happening in such areas. The psychological spoken, he would have heard me give credit to the impact of regeneration is often as important as the Government for making significant advances, particularly building projects. Moreover, such properties will provide on income support for mortgage interest, which I have short-term housing for many people who are in dire welcomed regularly and which have helped many people. need. I am glad to see that the Minister has reappeared. My point is not to say that the Government have done I am sure that he is now listening attentively to my nothing. My point is that they must think long term. I contribution. have not criticised them for everything that they have A number of hon. Members focused on the issue of done, and I am trying to make a constructive contribution repossessions. Earlier, I said that it was frustrating that to the debate, which, so far, has involved an enormous so many straw men had been built and knocked down number of straw men being knocked down. The right during the debate. When I challenged the right hon. hon. Gentleman need not knock down another straw 173WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 174WH man now. I have welcomed the contributions to ISMI. I welcome the new junior Housing Minister to his What I have also said is that some of the Government’s place. This is the first full debate that we have had as policies have been very tightly drawn, which has meant opposing Front-Benchers. Previous Housing Ministers that a lot of people have fallen through the net. That is have not had the longest tenure. I have worked out that why I have consistently argued for mortgage law reform. the four Housing Ministers whom I have faced across The report picked up a point about the pre-action the Dispatch Box were in place for an average of 211 days. protocol and said that the Select Committee was concerned It is slightly better news for the Minister: he is only the that it lacked teeth. I have consistently pushed the second junior Housing Minister whom I have faced. Government on the issue of mortgage law reform, and I Junior Housing Ministers usually last slightly longer hope that the Minister will consider the issue favourably. than Housing Ministers on average, but with an impending general election, time will tell. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe spoke Given the Minister’s short period in office, he will still about the difficulties that tenants find themselves in. be struggling—excellent though he will turn out to The Committee Chair, the hon. Member for Milton be—to get his head around some of the key housing Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey), also spoke about the figures, and of course it can take a long time to comprehend issue. I know that the Ministry of Justice is considering the housing lexicon, so I thought of a few basic facts to the matter at the moment. I argued in the previous lay out some of the background to these excellent debate that we had in Westminster Hall with this Minister reports. Not all those facts are referred to in the reports, that I hoped that mortgage law reform could be used to so perhaps there have been one or two omissions. give courts the power to intervene. Guidance could then be issued. We would not necessarily need primary legislation The first key figure for the Minister is that far too few to enforce a longer notice period for tenants who find homes have been built in the past 12 years—that is the themselves in difficulty because their landlord has got underlying cause of everything that is written about in into arrears on their mortgage. the reports. How many too few? The answer is about 24,000 a year—missing homes that were never built I hope that the Government will look on that favourably under this Government, by contrast to the trend of the and take action soon, because we are about to go into previous couple of decades. That has left a huge hole in recess. Although the Ministry of Justice is looking at housing in this country. Simple maths tells us that that the matter, we do not have any time scale on when such is one reason why we are in the current mess. However, a measure will be brought in. Which law are the Government that is not the only problem. hoping to amend? Will it happen through secondary or Most of the debate has focused on affordable housing primary legislation? Will that be in the next Queen’s for rent, purchase or part-purchase. The bad news of Speech? How long will it take, because enormous numbers the overall house-building statistics gets even worse of people will find themselves in difficulty and may fall when it comes to affordable housing numbers. Less through the net? affordable housing has been built in every single year of Finally, I want to pick up on a matter that was in the this Government than in any of the years under the report and that I asked the Minister about in our Governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major. previous debate. He said then that he did not know the That is a rather damning indictment of a Government answer, so I hope that his civil servants have briefed him who I am sure would like to be thought of as being on ahead of this debate. I am talking about the issue of people’s sides and assisting with things such as housing sale and rent back. The Government have consistently for those most in need. said that they want the OFT to regulate that area. This year, it is likely that 70,000 to 90,000 houses will However, I am still seeing notices on lamp posts across be built in total, which is fewer than half the Government London saying, “We can buy your house and you can target of 200,000, which is supposed to increase rapidly rent it back. We can get you out of difficulty if you are to 240,000. We are in a mess. The single greatest lesson in debt.” Given that the mortgage rescue scheme is that the new junior Housing Minister could learn from predicted to rescue only 6,000 people, there will be the two reports and the current housing situation is that many who get themselves into arrears, take part in those those top-down targets simply do not work. In fact, not schemes and lose their homes some 12 months later. only do they not work; they probably make the situation When will the Government regulate that kind of sale- slightly worse. Regrettably, he will not find that conclusion and-rentback scheme? The Committee said that the in the reports. matter was urgent in February when the report was published and the Government have been promising I am afraid that the Committee has in many ways such regulation for several years, so I hope that the fallen for the Government’s warm words on housing, Minister answers that question. which they deliver all the time. The Government have always been very polite about housing. They never told anybody that they were going to get fewer homes of all types built in this country, including affordable housing—it 4.20 pm has just happened over a number of years. It is almost Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con): I congratulate as though, as long as the Government come out with the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, South-West new and supposedly ambitious or challenging targets—as (Dr. Starkey), the Chairman of the Committee, on two they are variously described—everyone, including, I am excellent reports, particularly the first report. The second afraid, members of the Committee, will buy the argument report is a very good update—it is bang up to date—on and congratulate them on having so much aspiration. the situation and includes information about the The truth is that aspirations, targets and challenges Government’s most recent “Building Britain’s Future” do not build homes, and nor do headlines. All too often, announcements. They provide a good basis for the the problem with the Government’s housing policy has debate. been that they chase headlines. There were supposed to 175WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 176WH

[Grant Shapps] Government will build far more than, say, 250 affordable homes in my constituency, but we will do it with people be 10 eco-towns—five by 2016 and the other five by rather than against them. 2020—yet today, it was announced that there will be Some Government schemes are outlined in the report, only four and they will probably take till 2020. By the which is welcome, even if detail on performance is way, the houses will not be as environmentally friendly lacking. We have heard the enthusiasm of the right hon. as the zero-carbon homes that we will be building by Member for Greenwich and Woolwich for the rent-to- 2016. The houses in the eco-towns, which is a sham homebuy scheme, whereby a person can rent a home name, will only be at sustainability level 4—I am sure and, over a period, buy the house if they want to. the Minister has already discovered that level 6 is the Although the scheme undoubtedly sounds like an excellent zero-carbon level. We have an incredible situation in idea and a good way to help people gradually on to the which the rhetoric is so far distant from the reality that housing ladder, he did not mention—perhaps he does even Labour Back Benchers and those who are most not have the figures to hand, but I was given the experienced in housing dare not challenge the raw facts information in a parliamentary answer just the other of a failed, top-down housing policy. week—that £87 million has been spent on the scheme in I do not believe that the Government want this more than a year, but not a single person has moved situation or that they lack the compassion to change into home ownership. The rent-to-homebuy scheme things, and it is not for the lack of warm words about is not a spectacular success so far, at an average cost new headline-grabbing schemes and initiatives that we of £33,000. are in this situation. It is worth reflecting on some of the schemes mentioned in the reports, even if there is Mr. Raynsford: The hon. Gentleman seems surprised not the forensic detail that one would like. To be fair to that a scheme that is designed to help people through a the Committee, such detail would be impossible to period when mortgage finance is very difficult obtain provide, simply because the numbers change daily, although should not have led people immediately into home not by much. ownership. Is not the whole purpose of the scheme precisely to enable people to rent now and buy at some Mr. Betts: In the hon. Gentleman’s comments so far, future date when circumstances are easier? we have been given a very general picture. He has said that the Opposition are in favour of more social housing Grant Shapps: For £87 million, I am not surprised and that we cannot have a top-down approach, but I that not every single person who took up the scheme have not heard him say how, if there are going to be has ended up buying, but I am surprised that not a spending cuts under a future Conservative Government single family has been able to buy. Incidentally, the and if health and education spending will be completely scheme costs £33,000 on average and has not helped a protected, funds will be available to build the social single person into their own home, whereas the homebuy rented housing for which he is arguing. direct scheme costs only £24,000 and has proved at least slightly more successful. The problem is that the rent-to- homebuy scheme is costing a lot of money but is not Grant Shapps: If the hon. Gentleman would be so working. gracious, I shall come to that. I am on only the first page of my four pages of notes, and the last page What about social homebuy, the great scheme launched describes precisely what we will do to get more from in a fanfare to help 5,000 families a year? The Minister less, as he describes it. should know that so far, it should have assisted 15,000 families already in social affordable rented housing to buy their own homes. Will he include the up-to-date Emily Thornberry: Is not one of the problems of number in his response? When I last asked, not 15,000 building new housing that people do not seem to want families but just six had been helped to purchase their new housing schemes near them? An awful lot of that own home in all that time. I would be grateful if he gave involves Conservative councils that do not give planning us an update on social homebuy and how it is failing. permission for housing schemes. If, for example, 250 Islington families wanted to move into the hon. Gentleman’s What about homebuy direct? The £480 million constituency, would planning permission for social programme was designed to help a lot of people, but at rented housing be given? the last asking, only 200 families had benefited from it, although I should add that only a fraction of the money has been spent. Off the top of my head, I think that the Grant Shapps: The Government are obsessed with figure is £4.7 million. The scheme is not working in any the idea that they have failed miserably after 12 years to direction. It brought a lot of hope to a lot of people, but build enough social houses because of someone else, it does not seem to be going anywhere. but they are misleading themselves. To answer the hon. Lady directly, I believe that local communities will The Select Committee report welcomed not just the accept much more housing, and much more affordable schemes to help people buy their own homes but the housing, if there is something in it for them. She asked schemes to help keep them in their own homes, such as how my constituents would feel. As I have said on many mortgage protection schemes, two of the most notable similar occasions, my constituents cannot be told to of which are similarly named. The Minister will be accept 10,000 or 15,000 new homes—that is specified by struggling to get his head around all the acronyms, so I regional spatial strategy for the eastern region—when shall touch on them both briefly. their local hospital is being closed. The two things are Under the mortgage rescue scheme, as the Minister simply incompatible. Until the Government try to join will immediately recognise, a registered social landlord those things up, they will never succeed in building new can purchase all or part of somebody’s home to help homes. In fact, I am confident that a future Conservative them out of trouble. It was launched in January this 177WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 178WH year and is designed to help 6,000 families over two nowhere near successful or are abject failures. It is years. When I last asked, not 6,000 families or anything about time that somebody from the Government stood close to it but six families had been helped. Can he give up and explained why they think that the schemes have me an update on the number of families assisted by the gone wrong and whether they were motivated by the mortgage rescue scheme? prospect of catching great headlines on the day, in the hope that no one would notice when hard-pressed families Dr. Starkey: I ask the hon. Gentleman to reconsider were not helped in the long term. the wording. It is my understanding that the mortgage Interventions in this debate have focused on what rescue scheme was originally designed on the basis that Her Majesty’s Opposition would do if we were in probably about 6,000 families would fit its eligibility government, so I will reflect on one or two ideas that criteria and that the money was therefore set aside should be in the report but do not seem to be covered. accordingly. That is a slightly more accurate description The biggest is simply to stop thinking in terms of than suggesting that the scheme has failed if it does not top-down targets and telling people what to do, where reach 6,000 people. As I pointed out, we do not have the and how many, and to focus instead on a system of data to know whether 6,000 people met the eligibility incentives that would allow communities to make some requirement, were in danger of repossession and therefore of their own decisions in return for money. needed the money. Under a policy launched by us, that money would be provided through council tax. Specifically, every local Grant Shapps: I certainly understand the point that area could keep 100 per cent. of council tax—in fact, the hon. Lady makes, and I know that the evidence they would get 100 per cent. on top of that—for a gathered by the Select Committee will have been considered period of six years. Let us say that an eco-town, such as thoughtfully. the one in north-west Bicester, got the go-ahead and As we are debating the reports and the Government’s was locally approved and all the rest of it. Over a response to the first one, let me give my criticism. Why period of six years, based on the likely outcome of the was the Select Committee not slightly more forensic in average council tax, the town would get £45 million to its questioning about the outcomes and success of the £50 million for the local area. That would be a huge schemes? Although the hon. Lady may well be right to incentive for local communities to develop and get suggest that not all 6,000 people would ever be helped, something in return. it is still certainly the case that a Minister stood at the We would also ensure that more affordable housing Dispatch Box—I remember it well; it happened in would be built—a subject that is of interest to many January—to announce the scheme in a headline-grabbing Members here today—by ensuring that local areas got manner that made the 10 o’clock news and sounded as 125 per cent. of council tax to keep, a larger proportion though thousands of people were about to get great than is being paid by residents, for every home built. help from the Government. As the reality six months That would create an inbuilt incentive to build more later is that only six families have been helped, it does affordable housing without the need for top-down targets, no Government—and no newly appointed Minister—any which—let us face it—have failed, whatever one thinks harm to step up to the Dispatch Box and admit the of them. reality: perhaps the scheme, along with the others that I Other hon. Members have mentioned community have outlined, is not functioning as it was initially land trusts, which were not covered in great detail in the designed to. report but are agreed by all parties to be an exceptional If we are not happy with how the mortgage rescue idea. They were added to the Housing and Regeneration scheme is operating, what about the home owner mortgage Bill in 2008 after much pushing, having been voted support scheme? It was first announced by the Prime down by the Government several times and eventually Minister on the same day as the Queen’s Speech and is agreed on at the last moment. They provide a framework designed to allow home owners to defer their mortgage for communities to get together and build long-term interest for up to two years. When the Prime Minister sustainable housing, as the land is locked in perpetuity usurped the Queen’s Speech to make that surprising for the use of local people. It is a tremendous idea. announcement in the debate immediately afterwards, he I invite the Minister to take on board local housing suggested that it would cover some 70 per cent. of the trusts, an idea from our recent housing Green Paper; he mortgage market. The scheme was not launched in the can rename them whatever he likes. They take the spring; it was April before it came into operation, at concept of the community land trust, which many of us which point, depending how one calculates—by volume, like so much, and provide communities with the ability money or number of mortgage lenders—only 25 to to grant themselves planning permission to go ahead 55 per cent. of the marketplace was covered. with building, without having to go through any rigmarole Before today’s debate, I looked the issue up. As I at all, apart from holding a referendum of local people understand it, a vast number of household-name lenders to ensure that that is overwhelmingly desired. are not within the Government’s home owner mortgage Incentives, community land trusts and local housing support scheme: HSBC, Barclays, Abbey, Alliance and trusts are all things that the Minister could take on Leicester and Nationwide. None of them are included. board. He could also pick up and use our empty property The Government promised, “Don’t worry. Others will rescue scheme. Nearly 1 million properties in this country come down the line.” They said that another six were at are empty and could be used rapidly. We have described the tipping point and about to sign up. I checked again how, with a bit of flexibility in some of the rules and today, and only two have come on board since. regulations, they could be used to house people today. I do not have time to go into the further schemes It is simply not good enough that, after 12 years, the intended both to assist people into housing and to help number of people languishing on the housing waiting them once they are there, but many of them have been list has gone up not by just a little, but by 80 per cent.—from 179WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 180WH

[Grant Shapps] Emily Thornberry: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will look at the issue differently. If the sky was to fall in and 1 million to 1.8 million. It is not acceptable to sit by there was a Government of a different colour next year, while families are living in temporary accommodation how would he measure his success? How many families because they cannot move into empty properties on the would be housed in social rented housing after four flimsy excuse that they do not meet up to a particular years of a Conservative Government? We would like to code. know what Conservative aspirations are, so that families Some people are not in accommodation at all. Last on the waiting list for social rented housing have some night, I met a man who was begging through the idea of what is on offer from an alternative Government. carriages of the train I was on. He said to everybody, “Excuse me, I am sorry to bother you, but I have fallen Grant Shapps: I can answer that directly and simply: on hard times.” The woman across from me gave him the measure will be whether we have built more homes. some money. I gave him the number for Thames Reach, If we do, we will reduce the housing waiting list. That because hostel places are generally available if people simple measure is far more meaningful than targets, want them. The Government have put a great deal of initiatives and programmes. If hon. Members are not emphasis on their homelessness strategy. Unfortunately, satisfied that the programmes are not working, I can that strategy has not been as honest as it should be. run through a list of more that are not helping people Bizarrely and incredibly, the homelessness count claims but are raising expectations. That is a cruel way to run that just 483 people sleep on the streets in this country. housing policy; it is not doing any good, and we can do That is not true; everyone knows that it is not true; and far better. The hon. Lady will know whether a future everyone recognises that there is a problem with the way Conservative Government have been more successful in which the figures are counted. One big problem is because we will have built more homes and reduced the that the returns from local authorities are bracketed housing waiting list—two things that were achieved down when they have been estimated. under previous Conservative Governments. The Minister’s predecessor promised to address that issue and carried out a consultation on it. Unfortunately, Dr. Starkey: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that rather than solve the problem, the consultation said targets by themselves are pointless. However, in delivering that authorities that did not carry out street counts the targets, the measures and priorities of the Government should not be asked to return figures at all. Therefore, are focused. That must happen as well as just having the for a local authority that estimated that there were five targets. rough sleepers in its return and had that bracketed I want the hon. Gentleman to focus his mind on the down to zero by the Department, the figure will still be topic of the debate: housing and the credit crunch. Will zero because such authorities will not be asked to return he explain how giving incentives to local authorities to any numbers. Will the Minister address this issue again? permit developers to develop on their land would help I understand that by keeping the rough sleeper count in the current situation? We are in a credit crunch, the same, there will be a baseline to indicate what is which means that developers are not building even happening. However, with the attempt to get to zero though they have planning permission. Will he bend his rough sleepers by 2012, it is surely important to count mind to that problem? the numbers accurately, so that we can understand the situation and focus resources. If he does not do that Grant Shapps: I have spent most of my time speaking before we come to power, we have a pledge to do so. about the schemes that are outlined in the Select Committee report. As I said, I do not think that the analysis is of Mr. Betts: I was waiting in expectation for a commitment sufficient detail to demonstrate that the outcomes of to fund social housing. Apart from the incentive for the schemes have met the intentions behind them. local communities, I did not hear one. Is there a commitment I do not believe that targets are of any benefit on a on the number of social houses that will be funded? national level, although local authorities will know Despite the hon. Gentleman’s lack of love for top-down what they plan to achieve through their local development targets, a future Government would presumably have a frameworks. Such aims are more realistic because they target. What will happen if these bottom-up local initiatives are at a local level. Incentives would make such things do not produce the number of houses that are needed more likely to happen. Our measure will be much by people in this country? simpler than targets. It will be whether we have built more houses and housed more people, particularly Grant Shapps: You have got to love those targets. The from the social housing waiting list, which is at an simple fact is that targets have not worked, so what is all-time high. the point of putting more targets in place? There is almost an obsession with targets. I know that they are I can create policy only for after the election, not for comforting and that people feel better when there is a today. We will have to assess the situation nearer the target, but it is cruel to have a target that is not delivered time. Eventually, the economy will come out of its because it disappoints people. For example, twice as current hole. I hope that we do not return to the days of many homeless children live in temporary accommodation housing boom and bust, which we were assured we had in this country than 10 years ago, despite the targets to moved away from even as house prices doubled in a do away with homelessness and child poverty. Such mere seven years. We will deal with that through more targets are not helping. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s intelligent regulation of the financial markets, which is question, if we find that not enough housing is being covered in the background to the reports. built, including affordable housing, we will increase the We had the Barker reviews of 2004 and 2006 and the incentives. We will not increase the target even though it policy of 3 million homes by 2020 because everybody is not being delivered. bought the argument that there were too few homes. 181WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 182WH

Everybody knew that because house prices were doubling online home-swapper programme, which moves more in just seven years. Although it seems obvious now, people around the country faster than any of the previous everybody did not know that one reason for that was programmes. Will the Minister take a close look at how the over-supply of lax mortgages. The ease with which a proper national mobility programme and a set of people could get mortgages and the competitiveness in measures that we have called the “right to move” could lending caused house prices to shoot up even faster be put in place so that people who live in affordable, than would have been the case purely because of supply rented social housing can have the same mobility and and demand in the housing stock. That was quite flexibility to move as others? different from previous housing booms and busts. On the Homes and Communities Agency, it is a huge We must learn that lesson and change the regulatory quango, but we have not said that we are going to have a framework right at the top. As we have said this week, bonfire of all quangos. I suppose that we have said that that means putting the Bank of England back in charge we are going to have a barbecue of quangos and that we of some of this regulation. The tripartite system that will check carefully what each of them does and whether was put in place in 1997 has clearly failed and let us it is performing to task. I have to say to the right hon. down, principally because nobody really know who Member for Greenwich and Woolwich that I am not was in control. There is a bigger macro picture that impressed when I see an agency that has 20 offices and hon. Members would not thank me for going into in spends £4.5 million a month on salaries alone, but as I more detail. have said to its chief executive Sir Bob Kerslake on I will return to the report and to the proposals that several occasions, we want to see how the agency performs the Minister could adopt right now. I have mentioned and what its outputs, rather than inputs, are—or what the rough sleeper count and the empty properties its outputs are in return for the inputs. The agency has programme. Hon. Members have mentioned the problem time between now and the election to prove that it can of renters who find out that the buy-to-let property in get the stalled housing and the stalled town centres, as which they live will be repossessed in a short period of in my constituency, and other projects that it has an time. The Government have done a little on that by interest in, working. If it can, and if it proves to be an extending the period of time during which the renter effective delivery model, then it or something similar should be told that the property in which they live may would, presumably, have a role. To expect the Opposition be repossessed, but a series of other steps could be to give a blank cheque to an agency that has been taken. I shall not go into them now, for the sake of in place for only a few months—it got started on brevity, but we have published them and I will happily 1 December—without having seen how it really performs send them to the Minister, as that set of proposals is is unrealistic. another that he could adopt immediately. The same is the case for the Tenant Services Authority, Finally, there is another area to discuss, which the which was set up by the same Act as the HCA. Indeed, reports do not address as much as they should and the right hon. Gentleman and I both sat on the Committee which has not been mentioned in the debate—the lack that considered that Bill. I am not terribly impressed of mobility in affordable housing. That is at the crux of that the authority has so far spent its time surveying this matter when it comes to the recession, the credit 27,000 tenants to get responses and then writing a draft crunch and the lack of social and affordable housing. report about what it might do. I want to see action from those organisations; they are spending a lot of public Mr. Raynsford: I have been waiting patiently to hear money and we need to make sure that we get proper the hon. Gentleman’s observations on the Homes and protection to protect our tenants in the most efficient Communities Agency. I heard him say “finally”, and way. That is a quick round-robin of where we stand. assumed that he was moving towards his conclusion, but I hope that he will address his party’s policy on the Mr. Betts: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that agency and its future. many tenants are rather pleased that the new authority is taking the time and trouble to listen to what they Grant Shapps: For the sake of completeness on policies think? When it puts its monitoring arrangements in that the new Minister could adopt quickly, I shall place to monitor what standards have been achieved discuss those policies in a moment. First, let me say that by housing associations, arm’s length management mobility is crucial and that I hope the Select Committee organisations and others, it will surely want to ensure will get the chance to look into that issue. There is no that those monitoring arrangements are worked out so doubt, according to research that we carried out the that the tenants’ view of the standard of service that week before last, that one reason why there is such a they are getting is reflected. That is its core mission, and great waiting list for housing is that nearly 250,000 I think that it is going about things from the start in a people live alone in three and four-bedroomed homes. very admirable way. So, we have the wrong-shaped families in the wrong Grant Shapps: That point gives me the opportunity to homes creating a waiting list, with other people waiting put on record that I want the absolute best, A-class to get into those properties. service as far as representation for tenants is concerned. Then there are the problems of sheer economics, However, the TSA is not even doing the 1 million particularly during the credit crunch—the subject of council houses yet, nor the ALMOs; it has focused only the report. The difficulty of moving between social on registered social landlords. That will not come until houses creates an inability to move around which affects 2010, so the picture is incomplete. I am concerned that the running and flexibility of the economy. That is a key it is taking so long to get things going. issue. We have already heard how the HOMES—Housing Mobility and Exchange Services—move programme Emily Thornberry: I have done an in-depth study of collapsed post-1997 when the Labour Government the views of my constituents who have housing association privatised it and it went wrong, but there is now an landlords. Interestingly, what came out of that was that 183WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 184WH

[Emily Thornberry] constituents and to improve housing in the city as a whole, because you have not been able to speak in the one housing association might be at the top of the debate about your role in your constituency. league in one place, but at the bottom of the league elsewhere, depending on the estate. The people who Joan Walley (in the Chair): That is much appreciated. have the least power are the tenants, but they are also the people who know the most about the estates—and Mr. Austin: Nevertheless, it has been a fascinating vice versa for housing associations. There is a big leap debate, in which a number of Members who are between national representation of housing association acknowledged experts on these issues have taken part. I tenants and local representation, which is very important. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Milton The new body addresses that, and that is why I am a Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey), the Chair of the great supporter of it. Select Committee, on producing the reports and securing the debate. I apologise to the hon. Member for Brent, Grant Shapps: I am grateful for that intervention. I East (Sarah Teather) for having popped out of the want to finish by the top of the hour, so I shall press on room—I am very sorry for having done so. except to say that I am the Conservative who represents I welcome the opportunity to have this debate. In the most council tenants in the country, and that I want June, my predecessor gave evidence to the Committee my 9,500 council houses—and the greater number of on the issue, but a lot has happened since then and I am council tenants in them—to have the protection of a grateful for the opportunity to report on the progress proper regulatory structure. The fact that the TSA does that has been made. As a number of Labour Members not yet cover them, coupled with my concern about the have made clear, housing has always been one of the speed at which things are moving, makes me wonder Government’s top domestic priorities and, whatever the whether it is going about things in the best way, or Opposition spokesman wants to claim, I think it is fair whether there are other ways of helping to provide to say that we have made significant progress over the those services to my constituent tenants and the past decade. A million more households now own their hon. Lady’s. homes, and there are more than 400,000 new affordable My final point is about the announcement, in the week homes and 1 million more decent homes. All of that has before last, on “Moving Britain Forward” or whatever made a real difference to people’s lives up and down the latest catchphrase for a relaunch is, in which the country. £1.5 billion was again promised to affordable housing. Following that period of real success, as the Committee’s That is on top of the very admirable £8.4 billion from report shows, housing along with many other sectors of 2008-11. It is not for lack of promises that we have the economy is undoubtedly now facing difficult times. failed to build enough homes in the past few years. The global economic turmoil has made conditions much The confusion started almost from the moment that the tougher for developers, home owners and prospective £1.5 billion was mentioned, not least because the buyers alike. The Government have had four key priorities Government have yet to explain, even today, a fortnight in responding to these challenges: first, to help home later, where the cash is coming from. We understand owners concerned about repossession; secondly, to support that half has to be found from the communities and first time buyers; thirdly, to restart the flow of lending; local government budget and that that money still has and fourthly, to increase the number of homes being not been found. In the No. 10 briefings, morning after built and boost skills in the construction industry. I morning, we have been promised that this information shall set out the progress that we have made on each will be released. Will the Minister explain where that of those. half of the £1.5 billion is coming from? Is it the case, Supporting home owners who are threatened with as many of us fear, that the only popular HomeBuy repossession, so that we can make sure no household programme, Open Market HomeBuy—it gets confusing, needlessly loses its home is one of our top housing so, for the Minister’s reference that programme takes priorities. That is why we have put in a place a framework in the My Choice HomeBuy and the Own Home of support through the whole arrears cycle—from debt programme—has been cut, at a saving of about advice to court desks—which has helped hundreds of £210 million, to contribute towards the communities thousands of families already. As part of that programme, and local government half of that £1.5 billion programme? we have boosted the support offered by the benefit If that is the case, will the Minister accept that the system and have implemented new schemes offering Government are robbing Peter to pay Paul? Given their targeted financial assistance to those in the greatest appalling record on housing, particularly on social and need: the homeowner mortgage support scheme and the affordable housing, will he admit that the game is mortgage rescue scheme. finally up? Every repossession is a tragedy for the family affected and all the figures and statistics will be of no consolation 4.58 pm to people who have lost their home, but the measures we The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for have introduced will help thousands of households Communities and Local Government (Mr. Ian Austin): It avoid repossession. As my right hon. Friend the Member is a great pleasure to take part in this debate under your for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr. Raynsford) said, it is chairmanship, Ms Walley. I know what a great interest worth pointing out that the figures provided by the you take in housing issues and that you have great Council of Mortgage Lenders show that the number of knowledge and expertise on and commitment to those repossessions in 2008 represent about 0.34 per cent. of issues. Excellent though the debate has been, I am sure all loans, which means that despite the fact that more that it would have been enhanced had you been able to than a million more households now own their home, take part. I wanted to pay tribute to all the work that the numbers affected are proportionately smaller than you do in Stoke to fight for better housing for your in the 1990s. 185WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 186WH

Again, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, the although, as I said earlier, every repossession is a tragedy, Council of Mortgage Lenders has already said that its Ministry of Justice figures show a 42 per cent. drop in forecast of 75,000 repossessions this year was looking mortgage possession claims issued in quarter one of pessimistic in light of the Government’s intervention. 2009 compared with quarter one of 2008. That is important The Council of Mortgage Lenders has now reduced as it is crucial for effective forbearance that lenders treat that figure and that revision is a direct result of the borrowers fairly and that borrowers talk to their lender action that we have taken, in combination with lower if they enter financial difficulty. interest rates and other actions to support the economy. On other measures, we are helping 200,000 through I am glad that the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield the support for mortgage interest scheme, which helps (Grant Shapps) raised that point and went into it in with payments towards the interest component of a some detail. I want to deal with the matter with the mortgage. We have also introduced the homeowners same amount of detail. To be honest, it is a bit ridiculous mortgage support scheme, which helps people on reduced to judge the success of a scheme or the impact of the incomes to reduce their mortgage payments, and we Government’s measures by the number of people whose estimate that that could help tens of thousands more homes have been sold to housing associations at the households. In addition, the mortgage rescue scheme very final stage of one particular scheme and ignore the helps people stay in their homes—some by selling a hundreds of thousands of people who have been helped stake to the housing association—and has helped up to much earlier in the process. 6,000 families, 200 of which have had repossession The macro-economic framework we have put in place action in the first five months of the scheme. I want that means that millions of home owners have benefited scheme to help people as quickly as possible, but there from record low interest rates, which is in stark contrast are practical problems because households are selling to what has happened in previous recessions when their home when they enter the scheme. It is not an interest rates soared to 10 per cent. for four years and overnight process. We need to ensure that checks on the 15 per cent. for a year. That caused even bigger problems property are carried out and that the home owner gets for millions of families. Ensuring that lenders are offering proper advice before making the decision to go ahead. their own forms of support to borrowers and that they However, we want to speed up the process where are providing extra advice and protections through the possible, which is why, on 30 June, the Minister for courts has helped hundreds of thousands more people. Housing, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth (John Healey), announced our plans for the new mortgage Grant Shapps: I am intervening because the Minister rescue fast-track team, which will be up and running by seems to be trying to paint a picture that suggests that, the end of this month. The team will be based in for all sorts of reasons, it does not matter that just six Birmingham and will help manage MRS applications. families are being helped through, for example, the Its work will include handling negotiations with lenders mortgage rescue scheme. Is he aware that the real reason and registered social landlords, which should really for that is it is almost impossible to jump through the speed up the process for some households. required hoops to qualify for the scheme? I invite him to The truth about the package as a whole is that comment on that? millions have benefited from low interest rates—that did not happen in previous recessions—and hundreds Mr. Ian Austin: I will deal with that and answer the of thousands have been able to stay in their homes important point that the hon. Gentleman has made, but because of direct help from the Government. As I said, I want to take him through the whole process. To every repossession is a tragedy and none of the statistics support households in financial difficulty, we have provided will be of any consolation. However, as a result of these extra funding for debt advice, including £6 million for measures, even though a million more households the National Debtline and £10 million for the citizens own their home, the numbers being repossessed are advice bureau. CAB figures show that 95,000 households proportionately smaller than in the 1990s. received advice on a mortgage or secured loan last year. I understand the Opposition’s position on this and When a possession case has reached court, repossession why they want to claim that such schemes—the home is not inevitable and the right advice and support can ownership and the shared ownership schemes and so help households remain in their home even at that stage. on, to which the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield That is why we have put in place universal access to referred earlier—are not having an impact. To be fair to advice desks in courts, and have doubled DCLG funding the hon. Gentleman, I do not think he is making such for that vital scheme to £1.5 million for the current year. claims to score political points—[Interruption.] Although, The scheme provides free legal advice and representation perhaps I am being too generous. I think there is a to people facing repossession or eviction hearings. fundamentally difference in our values and the Opposition’s Legal protection for home owners in difficulty has view of how things should be organised. also been strengthened. In 2004, the Government introduced The Opposition want to say that the extra investment statutory regulation of mortgages and the Financial and the real help that we have provided is not working Services Authority’s regime affords consumers important because they are ideologically opposed to Government protections and requires lenders only to repossess as a intervention. When they talk about wanting a smaller last resort. More recently, we introduced the mortgage state and rolling back the frontiers of the state, what pre-action protocol, which sets out clear guidance to they actually mean is that the Government should do the judiciary on what steps the courts expect lenders to less, and spend less. The Opposition would like to take before bringing a claim to court. That helps ensure introduce spending cuts, so that they can do whatever that lenders can only repossess as a last resort—and the they want to do on inheritance tax regarding some of measure has paid off. More lenders are working with the richest estates in the country. They were opposed to their customers to help them stay in their homes and the action that we took to save the banks. They think 187WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 188WH

[Mr. Ian Austin] have to do more. It is fair to say that, for decades, housing supply has failed to keep up with our growing our approach should have been to do much less or and aspiring population, and that demand for housing, nothing during the recession and that we should cut both affordable and in the private sector, will continue public spending. We think that we should increase to increase. It will be crucial that our house building investment to keep people in their homes, save jobs and industry responds flexibly to meet that challenge. get the economy moving. Those are two very different That is why our recent pledge to invest £1.5 billion to sets of beliefs, are they not? build 20,000 new affordable homes for rent and low-cost The next election will be an opportunity for the sale is so important. The pledge builds on existing country to choose which approach it wants. But let us programmes: the national affordable housing programme, not reduce this to some kind of point-scoring around the local authority new build programme, the kickstart this or that number. Let us have an honest debate about housing delivery programme and the surplus public the competing values that our different parties hold. sector land programme. The pledge will increase total In addition to supporting those at risk of repossession, investment in affordable housing over the next two we have also taken action to help make home ownership years to £7.5 billion, and it will mean that more than more affordable. To help first time buyers get on the 110,000 new affordable homes will be built during property ladder, we will provide increased funding for that period. our low-cost home ownership schemes. These include The Chairman of the Committee, my hon. Friend the the Rent to HomeBuy scheme, which enables potential Member for Milton Keynes, South-West, discussed the purchasers to rent a property at below market rent for latest projections, which indicate that the number of up to five years, giving them an opportunity to save the households will grow at a faster rate, and that we might deposit needed to buy a share in their home. need to build even more homes. That underlines the The HomeBuy Direct scheme enables purchasers to urgent need to maintain our ambition to provide more buy a newly built home with the assistance of an equity homes, not just for now but for future generations loan of up to 30 per cent. Households with incomes of as well. up to £60,000 that could not afford to purchase a suitable property on the open market are eligible to buy Grant Shapps: The Minister is being generous in through HomeBuy. Together with the recent housing giving way. He rushed through the £1.5 billion pledge pledge, we expect to help more than 46,000 people into without mentioning where the money will come from. home ownership this year and next. Could I push him on that point? The Committee and my hon. Friend the Member for Mr. Austin: We have said— Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts) discussed finance for mortgages. In January, the Government announced measures to reinforce stability of the financial system, Grant Shapps: You have not. increase confidence and capacity to lend, and support the recovery of the economy. Those measures build on Mr. Austin: We have, actually. We said that the money the £500 billion package announced in October last will come from reprioritising in my Department and year to help restore confidence and trust in the markets. elsewhere in Government, and from underspends in other Departments. We will provide more detail in due In addition, and as a condition of accessing the asset course, but the challenge for him is to say whether he protection scheme, lending commitments on commercial would match the pledge and what he would invest in terms have been agreed with the Royal Bank of Scotland providing new homes, and whether that would be subject and Lloyds for the 12 months from March 2009. Other to the cuts to which his party is committed. It is all very banks have also signalled their intention to increase well for him to ask these questions— lending. That should help families looking to buy a property and households that want to remortgage. Grant Shapps: You are the ones in Government. As I said earlier, the Bank of England has taken decisive action to reduce interest rates. Mortgages are Mr. Austin: There will be a general election in less cheaper for some prospective buyers and many in home than a year, and the Opposition’s proposals will come ownership as a result of the average mortgage interest under just as much scrutiny as our record and our plans rate having fallen from 5.8 per cent. in April 2008 to for the future. The country will face a big choice between 3.59 per cent. in May 2009. our plans to invest in the economy, to save jobs in the Let me turn now to housing supply, which was raised construction sector and to provide the homes that people by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and need, and the Opposition’s plans to cut public spending. Finsbury (Emily Thornberry). She spoke with great Frankly, I cannot wait for that debate, which will subject passion about the problems facing her constituents. I the Opposition’s proposals to the scrutiny that they would be happy to go to her constituency and meet have so far escaped. I believe that the people of Britain some of those people and see for myself the conditions will take a very different view of the Opposition’s policies that she described. In addition, I would be happy to when we and the media are able to subject them to the speak to her in more detail about the problems that she scrutiny that they deserve. referred to with the housing market in London more The pledge also strengthened the local authority role generally. in the delivery of affordable housing. The rules governing The Government’s help, combined with the commitment council housing finance were changed to allow local of the registered social landlord sector, meant that more authorities to retain the full rents on new-build properties than 47,000 affordable homes were funded through the and the full capital receipt when any of those properties HCA in 2008-09. That is a real achievement, and we are sold. We propose to reform the council housing 189WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 190WH finance system to embed those reforms. Several hon. party adopted in the mid-1990s, when we were campaigning Members commented on that during their speeches. I for Government after a long period in opposition. They understand that the hon. Member for Brent, East raised try to suggest that they are adopting similar techniques the matter while I was out of the room. I am sorry and campaigning methods, learning from what we did about that. I gather that she was unhappy about the and all of that. However, there is a big lesson that he length of the consultation period. should learn.

Sarah Teather: I am concerned that the consultation Grant Shapps: Talk about housing. will be published after the House rises. If there are issues in our boroughs that are raised with us as constituency Mr. Austin: When the hon. Gentleman’s leader talks MPs, not Front-Benchers, will we be able to raise them about being the “heir to Blair”, for example, and so with the Minister before the close of the consultation? on— Will the consultation close before the House returns in October? I am concerned about that, and I am also Joan Walley (in the Chair): Order. I just want to concerned that, frankly, this should have happened five, remind Members that we need to restrict the debate to six, seven or even 10 years ago rather than now, at the the Government’s response to the Select Committee end of a parliamentary term. report.

Mr. Austin: Despite the hon. Lady’s comments about Emily Thornberry: But this is entertaining. when the consultation happens, I am sure that she welcomes the fact that it is now happening. Also, I am Mr. Austin: I will be very brief. I was simply going to sure that she will not be on holiday from next Tuesday say that all of the plans that we set out before the 1997 until the House returns in October, and I can assure her election were absolutely clearly costed. We were absolutely that neither my right hon. Friend the Minister for clearly open with the electorate, and that is why they Housing nor I will be either. It is fair to say that she has trusted us and voted for us. The lack of detail is what is never been slow to put her views forward, so I am sure going to cause the hon. Gentleman and his party a big that she will take the opportunity to express her views problem when the next election campaign comes. and those of local people. Obviously, if she wants to write to us or respond to the consultation, her views will Dr. Starkey: I wish to concur with what Ms Walley be considered. has said. May I urge the Minister to respond to the issue The changes were underpinned by additional investment that both I and my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, through the pledge in the local authority new build Attercliffe raised? programme, which provides funding for local authorities to build affordable housing on their land. The Chairman Mr. Austin: Yes, I will. of the Committee asked about environmental standards, and whether they will be relaxed as a result of the Dr. Starkey: That is the issue of the asset-backed pressures on the house building industry. I can assure security guarantee scheme and whether the Minister her that it is not our intention to do that because of the and his Department will talk to the Treasury about recession. The housing pledge will create some 45,000 modifying it to make it more effective, given that the additional jobs in construction and related industries Treasury Committee is on the same line and will doubtless over the next three years. make similar recommendations in due course. Grant Shapps: Again, this needs to go on the record. Mr. Austin: I listened with interest to the points that The Minister talks about the housing pledge, and the my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe additional homes to be built as a result of the £1.5 billion, made and I have read the points that have been made in but is he aware that in launching that pledge, the the report. I know that the Treasury is aware of those Government, without having ever mentioned it anywhere points too and I will ensure that he gets a more detailed else, automatically downgraded their previous target of response from the Treasury. 70,000 homes? However, I wanted to move on quickly to the issue of Mr. Austin: The extraordinary thing about this debate skills, because I think that the report is absolutely right is that I do not understand how the hon. Gentleman to identify that it is essential that we do not repeat the expects anybody to take seriously anything that he says mistakes that were made in the last recession, when about these numbers or these programmes if he is not skilled workers left the construction industry. They did prepared to tell us how much his party would allocate not come back even when conditions improved, which for investment in housing, how many homes they would left a real gap between the level of skills that the provide and how that programme would be delivered. industry needed for the longer term and the skills that All this vague stuff that he talks about, such as greater were available. It took about 15 years for the industry freedoms, getting rid of targets and all the rest of it, to recover. does not mean a single thing. It does not mean that a That is why we have taken significant action to help single brick will be laid, a single home will be built or a the construction industry to maintain skills and outputs. single family will be rehoused. Until he is prepared to As part of that approach, we have brought forward provide that sort of detail, no one is going to take significant amounts of Government spending to build seriously the points that he is making. He is point new social housing, to repair and upgrade existing scoring on these issues. social housing and to ensure that even more privately-rented I say to the hon. Gentleman that I think that he and homes are of a decent standard. On top of that, through his party are in for a rude awakening when the next the Homes and Communities Agency we allocated election comes. It is interesting that they continually try £350 million last year to buy 9,600 unsold new homes to present themselves as adopting the approach that our from private developers for use as affordable housing. 191WH Housing and the Credit Crunch16 JULY 2009 Housing and the Credit Crunch 192WH

[Mr. Ian Austin] rough sleepers. I was planning to write to him in more detail on this issue, because I do not think that the My right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and situation is nearly as simple as he pretends that it is. The Woolwich is absolutely right to draw a distinction between key point to make is that, whatever one thinks about the that work and the housing market package in the early figures and however they are calculated, they demonstrate 1990s. I worked for a housing association at that time a trend of massive reduction, by about 75 per cent., and although I had nothing to do with property acquisition since we embarked on our programme for rough sleepers. I remember being sent out to drive round the estate I think that anybody would concede that that is the agents of the west midlands, in what was really an arms case. The challenge for him and his party is to tell us if race with other housing associations to buy up as many they will match the 2012 target, because that is another homes as possible. That package from the early 1990s subject on which they have been entirely silent. can hardly be compared with the strategic and targeted Before I conclude, I must say that it is important that approach that the Government are taking now. we do not lose sight of the bigger picture and continue More recently, as part of the Budget package for our vital work to put in place the conditions to accelerate housing we put in place the £400 million Kickstart a sustainable recovery. That includes ensuring a sufficient Housing Delivery programme. That programme will supply of deliverable land, an efficient and proportionate help to restart stalled construction activity across the planning system, co-ordinated infrastructure provision country by using equity, infrastructure, gap and affordable that is aligned with housing plans, a strong and diverse housing funding to leverage in private development house building sector and regulations that help to facilitate finance. It has now been strengthened by the housing more homes that are better designed and green. I am pledge to deliver approximately 22,000 homes, of which confident that our suite of sustained investment and a good proportion will be affordable. support will enable us to meet our future challenges and We are also promoting apprenticeships on Government to emerge with the homes and communities that we projects such as the 2012 Olympic games, with an need for a stronger and fairer Britain. apprenticeship matching scheme that is led by ConstructionSkills. We expect the Olympic games to Joan Walley (in the Chair): Does Dr. Starkey wish to create 250 construction apprenticeships. We are also reply to the debate? working with the HCA to put targets for apprenticeships in place across the broad range of HCA projects. By Dr. Starkey: No, Ms Walley, I do not. maintaining the supply of homes, affordable or otherwise, Question put and agreed to. all of that investment supports skills and capacity within the house building industry. Before I finish, I wanted to pick up on the point that 5.26 pm the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield made about Sitting adjourned. 37WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 38WS

and saw no point in proceeding if failure was clear from Written Ministerial the outset. The Commission underlined the need to respect European Union law. Preliminary discussions Statements would be needed with the European Parliament before deciding how to proceed. The presidency concluded that the majority of member states use the opt-out but Thursday 16 July 2009 that a way forward would need to be found.”

TREASURY BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS

ECOFIN Informal Meeting of Employment and Social Policy Ministers The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Alistair Darling): The Economic and Financial Affairs Council was held The Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society in Brussels on 7 July 2009. The following items were (Angela Eagle): My noble Friend, The Minister for discussed: Employment Relations and Postal Affairs, Lord Young Presentation of the presidency work programme of Norwood Green, at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has made the following statement. The Council took note of the presentation by the Swedish presidency of the ECOFIN work programme “The informal meeting of Employment and Social for the second half of 2009. Policy Ministers took place on 8 to 9 July 2009 in Jonkoping, Sweden. I represented the UK. Follow up to the 18-19 June European Council The theme of this informal meeting was labour market a) Financial supervisory framework—The Council took stock inclusion looking ahead to post-2010. The informal of the presidency’s strategy for taking forward work on European looked at maintaining employment and promoting mobility, financial supervision and regulation following the agreement reached at the June ECOFIN and European Council. The UK is upgrading skills and matching with labour market needs supportive of the timetable presented, with legislative proposals and increasing access to employment. Working time expected on 23 September, and will engage fully in the upcoming was also discussed over a Ministers-only lunch which I negotiations to ensure that the legislation is in line with the attended. agreement reached by leaders at the European Council, and in In the opening session, member states agreed on the particular that any new powers granted to existing or proposed importance of active social security and labour market bodies would not impinge in any way on member states’ fiscal responsibilities. policies. They stressed the importance of ensuring help for those moving between jobs and those already outside b) Climate change financing—Ministers also took note of conclusions agreed by heads at the June European Council on the the labour market. While the crisis tested member states’ financing of climate change. The presidency expects an agreement resolve to conduct further reforms, now was the time to to be reached on a negotiating mandate at a meeting of the prepare Europe for the economy of the future. European Council in October, when ECOFIN will also revisit this Following on from the opening session, the meeting issue. The Government believe that work should continue to was split into three workshops, each devoted to a specific ensure the EU reaches agreement on the key issues in advance of challenge: Workshop 1—Managing the impact of the the Copenhagen conference in December. financial crisis by increasing access to employment, Preparation for the G20 meetings Workshop 2—Facilitating access to employment by efficient The UK updated the Council on the outcome of a reforms in the labour market and Workshop 3—Increasing G20 deputies meeting on 27 and 28 June. The presidency employment through an active social security policy. I informed Ministers of its intentions of the handling of participated in Workshop 3 to present the UK approach the preparation for further G20 meetings in September, to the reform of incapacity benefit and said that reform including London meetings of G20 deputies on was ongoing. Others member states warned against 3-4 September and G20 Finance Ministers and central repeating the mistakes of the past that caused long-term bank governors on 4-5 September. There will be a lunch structural damage to economies. of EU Finance Ministers to prepare for these on The presidency concluded that it saw these discussions 2 September. The Government will look forward to as feeding into its work on the post-2010 strategy. The working closely with the presidency to ensure co-ordination commission concurred. While the current Lisbon strategy of work taken forward at G20 and EU levels. remained the right framework for action, its forthcoming Pro-cyclicality revision would need to take better account of the social Following a report by the Economic and Financial dimension. The commission would set out initial views Committee, ECOFIN adopted Council conclusions on in its forthcoming consultation document. pro-cyclical effects on financial markets. The conclusions The meeting concluded with a private Ministers-only assess work underway to reduce possible pro-cyclical lunch discussion on the working time directive. Following effects of financial regulation, including on the issue of the failure of negotiations on the directive, some member impaired assets. The UK is content with the conclusions, states insisted that any new proposal would need to deal which represent a positive step forward on this issue, with the opt-out. The UK along with Germany, Poland and looks forward to further discussion of the issue in and others disagreed. A few member states urged caution the autumn. 39WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 40WS

Implementation of the Stability and Growth Pact areas. I am satisfied that when the project’s next two a) Adoption of legal acts in the excessive deficit procedure—ECOFIN Bills are enacted, the time will be right to bring this adopted Council decisions for Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland work to an end. and Romania, formally entering these countries into the excessive The achievements of the project would not have been deficit procedure, and issued recommendations on corrective possible without the dedication of everyone involved. action to be taken. It also issued a revised recommendation to Hungary on measures to be taken in order to correct its excessive Many tax professionals in the private sector have given deficit. their time and expertise in reviewing and improving the b) Adoption of Council opinions on updated stability and convergence new provisions during their development, in a productive programmes—The Council adopted opinions on the updated partnership with HM Revenue and Customs. Their stability and convergence programmes of Slovenia, Slovakia, input, and the guidance of the project’s steering and Austria, Belgium and Romania. consultative committees, have been vital in achieving Any Other Business the excellent quality of the rewritten legislation. Medium-Term Budgetary Objectives (MTOs) and Implicit With the completion of the project’s work, legislation Liabilities for the mainstream direct taxes will be much easier for users to navigate and understand. The Council took note of issues raised by the Slovenian Minister regarding the methodology to be used by member states from this autumn when they set medium- term objectives for their national budgets. Gaming Machines

The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): On 10 July 2009, I represented the UK at the budget The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah Economic and Financial Affairs Council (ECOFIN). McCarthy-Fry): I am today publishing a consultation on the future of gaming machines tax policy, copies of The Council conducted its first reading of the EC which have been placed in the House Library. budget for 2010, and agreed a draft budget that was supported by all member states. Following reforms to gambling taxation over the last decade, five of the seven gambling tax regimes are now The Council meeting was followed by a conciliation calculated on a gross profits basis. Gaming machines meeting between the Council and the European Parliament face a combination of amusement machine licence duty to discuss the EC budget for 2010. (AMLD), a licence fee paid before a gaming machine may be made available to play, and VAT at the standard rate on their takings. Provisional Outturn for Public Expenditure (2008-09) Taxing on the basis of gross profits has been a success for other gambling regimes. The Government The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): are considering whether to place the taxation of gaming The Treasury is today publishing the “Public Expenditure machines on to the same basis, and wishes to hear from 2008-09 Provisional Outturn” White Paper. interested stakeholders. The White Paper is an annual report to Parliament The consultation period will run until 23 October to on the provisional outturn for public expenditure. It ensure stakeholders are given additional time to make focuses on spending within departmental expenditure representations. The consultation document is also available limits (DEL) and annually managed expenditure (AME), from the HM Treasury website. and includes information on individual supply estimates, and administration costs and near-cash limits. Walker Review The outturn figures are described as provisional because, in some cases, they will be revised when Departments publish their final accounts. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah A copy of the White Paper will be available in the McCarthy-Fry): The Government strongly welcome the Libraries of both Houses and will be accessible on the publication today of the consultation document of Treasury website. Sir David Walker’s independent review of the corporate governance of UK banks and other financial institutions. Tax Law Rewrite Corporate governance failures were a major contributor to the financial crisis and the weaknesses in board practice, risk management, control of remuneration and exercise of ownership rights identified must be The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen addressed. Timms): As the tax law rewrite project will soon complete the work of rewriting mainstream direct tax legislation, Sir David’s proposals are detailed and comprehensive, it is necessary to consider whether it should rewrite setting a new benchmark for best practice both nationally other parts of the direct tax code. and internationally. Since it was set up, the project has played a key role in The Government will carefully consider his proposals, modernising tax legislation and making it far more including their wider and international implications, accessible and easier to apply. Its work has rightly been and in conjunction with the views arising from the widely praised, and has provided considerable benefits consultation, make sure that robust measures are put for users. However the benefits of rewriting other parts in place. of the direct tax code are less clear and there is less Copies of the consultation have been deposited in the support for extending the work of the project into these Libraries of both Houses. 41WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 42WS

CABINET OFFICE The Government are committed to a fairer, stronger society, in which disadvantage faced by all members of society is tackled. Fairness means ensuring that those Annual Report and Accounts Gypsies and Travellers who have no authorised place to stay have the same opportunities as others to a place they can call home, together with the same access to The Minister for the Cabinet Office and for the Olympics, educational, health and other services. It means also and Paymaster General (Tessa Jowell): Today, the Cabinet that residents in local communities should not have to Office’s “Annual Report and Accounts 2008-09”(HC 442) cope with the unauthorised developments and encampments has been laid before Parliament that can be the consequence of a shortfall in authorised The annual report and accounts reports a loss and a sites. contingent asset following the termination of phase 2 of The report confirms that the framework put in place the SCOPE programme in July 2008. by the Government provides the tools to enable local The SCOPE programme was an information technology authorities to tackle both the shortfall in site provision, programme working with 10 partners across Government. and instances of unauthorised developments and It aimed to extend the benefits of communication and encampments where they occur. The Government have collaborative working afforded by current information published clear guidance to enable local authorities and technology by improving the way sensitive information other agencies to make effective use of the wide range of was shared between and used by the security and intelligence enforcement powers available to them. They now look agencies and Government Departments. to local authorities to be proactive in taking the lead in addressing the shortfall by identifying, in consultation The first phase of the programme was delivered on with local communities, appropriate locations for sites time and within budget in 2007. It has delivered extremely which will have the twin benefits of creating homes for valuable benefits to the intelligence community in Gypsies and Travellers, and reducing the number of Government and has ensured that all its constituent unauthorised developments which can be the cause of members are now connected electronically. local community tensions. Phase 2 was about providing additional functionality, The identification of authorised sites will also enable for example, to allow for greater collaborative working local authorities to reduce the costs of enforcement between the security and intelligence agencies and action related to unauthorised encampments, as well as Departments. providing access to even stronger enforcement powers Phase 2 of the programme was cancelled following when there are available pitches to which unauthorised the failure of the main commercial supplier to the campers can be moved. The savings from the reduction programme to meet key contractual milestones. As a in enforcement action can then be deployed to other consequence of termination, it was necessary to write services to the benefit of the broader community, or off and report as a loss in the annual report and reduced levels of council tax. accounts that part of the value of the asset under construction which had no prospect of becoming viable. The Treasury has approved a write-off of £24.4 million Thames Gateway Annual Report which has been managed within the Department’s net resource requirement and budget and constitutes a charge against non-cash programme expenditure in the resource The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for departmental expenditure limit. Communities and Local Government (Mr. Shahid Malik): My Department is now working with the contractor The Government have today published the “Thames to resolve issues arising from the termination of the Gateway Annual Report 2008-09”. programme, including consideration of the legal avenues Copies have been placed in the Library of the House available. The aim of the work is to ensure that Her and can be accessed via the Communities and Local Majesty’s Government and, ultimately, the taxpayer Government website at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/ recover the appropriate value from the supplier which publications/thamesgateway/annualreport200809 relates to those undelivered parts of the programme. This is noted as a contingent asset in the annual report and accounts. The details of the discussions with the Eco-towns and Zero Carbon Homes supplier are commercially confidential and are likely to remain so. The Minister for Housing (John Healey): Yesterday, the Government published their “Low Carbon Transition COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Plan”. To respond to the challenge of climate change, we need to become a low-carbon country, achieving Gypsies and Travellers an 80 per cent. reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for We must also meet the challenge to build more homes, Communities and Local Government (Mr. Shahid Malik): so that everyone has a decent secure and affordable The Government have today published their first annual home. report on Gypsy and Traveller policies, as set out in its To deliver both we need to change the way that we response to the Task Group on Site Provision and plan, design and build homes for the future. More than Enforcement for Gypsies and Travellers. a quarter of Britain’s carbon emissions come from our Copies of the report have been placed in the Library homes. We will need to reduce emissions from existing of the House. homes. The Government announced important measures 43WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 44WS to do so yesterday and we will set out more later this realisable in all dwelling types. Following the task group’s year. But, one in three of Britain’s homes in 2050 will be report, I intend to announce decisions on a clear new built between now and then. We need to make sure that standard by the end of this year. our homes in future are cleaner, greener and cheaper to The net emissions of the home, taking account of its run from the out set. energy efficiency and on site energy supply (including, Today I am reconfirming the Government’s policy where relevant, connections to heat networks) will meet that all new homes will be zero-carbon from 2016 and a minimum “carbon compliance” standard—in effect a announcing further details on the definition and standards regulatory level of carbon reduction to be achieved we will legislate for. on-site compared to today’s regulations. New buildings are only part of the answer for a low I have decided to set that level to be as ambitious as carbon and sustainable future. A differently planned possible for on-site carbon mitigation, while being and more sustainable built environment can encourage technically achievable. This will therefore be 70 per more sustainable ways of living. cent. of regulated energy use, based on the assumptions laid out in our consultation document. We will consider Today I am publishing the “Planning Policy Statement” updating this as necessary in the light of technical which sets out the highest ever standards for green changes, such as developments to the standard assessment living, announcing the first four pioneering locations procedure energy assessment tool, to maintain this overall for Eco-towns in England and offering Government level of ambition and provide continued certainty to support to work with a further six second wave areas. industry. By radically rethinking how we design, plan and I can also confirm that new support for small scale build we can create zero-carbon developments which renewable heat and electricity generation through the combine affordable housing with green infrastructure, Renewable Heat Incentive and Clean Energy Cash Back, greater energy efficiency and a higher quality of life. will be available for on-site renewables in zero-carbon To support the Low Carbon Transition Plan and its homes, making these homes more attractive to occupants route map to carbon reduction, today I am also announcing and potentially reducing the net costs faced by developers. that we will review and combine the Climate Change Any carbon not mitigated on site will be dealt with and Renewable Energy Policy Planning Statements (PPS) through a range of good quality “allowable solutions”. consulting in detail on proposals before the end of the The allowable solutions will cover carbon emitted from year. the home for 30 years after build. Responses to the Zero Carbon Homes consultation took different views about some of the In July 2007, we announced that all homes would be solutions suggested. I have decided to indicate now zero-carbon from 2016. In December 2008, we published those approaches that commanded broad support. We a consultation on the definitions of zero-carbon. I am will consider with stakeholders the practical arrangements announcing today details of the definition that will that would be required to permit them to be put in place apply. and to ensure that standards are achieved in practice. I will announce decisions by the end of this year. Those A zero-carbon home is one whose net carbon dioxide that received broad support are: emissions, taking account of emissions associated with all energy use in the home, is equal to zero or negative Further carbon reductions on site beyond the regulatory standard; across the year. Our definition of “energy use” will Energy efficient appliances meeting a high standard which are cover both energy uses currently regulated by the Building installed as fittings within the home; Regulations and other energy used in the home. Homes Advanced forms of building control system which reduce the meeting the new requirements will be cheaper to run level of energy use in the home; because of high energy efficiency requirements, and Exports of low carbon or renewable heat from the development occupants will be less vulnerable to rising gas and to other developments; electricity prices. These homes will have better controls, Investments in low and zero-carbon community heat infrastructure. including smart meters, so that people can more easily Other allowable solutions remain under consideration. manage and reduce energy use. Technology for people The wider policies supporting distributed energy will to generate their own low carbon heat and electricity, continue to develop over the coming years. Our consultation with payments for surpluses will be designed and built suggested setting a guideline maximum price we expect into new zero-carbon homes or developments as a industry to bear in implementing allowable solutions. matter of course. In the light of responses, I intend to do so following Zero carbon homes will be designed and built to be further work on costs. For the purposes of the impact highly energy efficient. Our consultation quoted two assessment published today, I have included costs of standards to illustrate our ambitions in this area. allowable solutions up to the central option in our Respondents welcomed the proposition that energy consultation of £100 per tonne of carbon dioxide, reflecting efficiency should be the first priority, although many the cost of off-site renewable electricity. argued that the standards quoted were not suitable as a Government will support industry as it responds to minimum regulatory standard to apply to every new this challenge. Budget 2009 announced that the Government home in England and that we do not have an appropriate will report at the 2009 pre-Budget report on progress established energy efficiency standard for the purpose and set out its strategy to support a timely and effective of zero-carbon homes. I accept this. housing supply response through the recovery, in order I am therefore setting up a specialist task group, to maximise delivery of high quality, energy efficient reporting to me in the autumn to examine the energy homes, supporting our long term housing supply and efficiency metrics and standards which will realise our environmental objectives. As part of this, the Government ambition of the highest practical energy efficiency level will identify, working with industry and other partners, 45WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 46WS the best regulatory and policy framework to support the Summary of responses to the consultation on the draft PPS; Government’s long-term housing objectives. In making a Location Decision Statement. the announcement today, I am making clear the priority the Government attach to tackling climate change I am placing copies in the Library of the House. over other potential demands on land values. We will However the PPS is a statement about potential. The examine the cumulative impact and costs of our existing decision on whether or not the eco-town schemes go regulatory policies and proposals that potentially affect ahead is for the local planning authority. Schemes can land value including current implementation plans in be considered in local plans and will be the subject of the round in the context of the PBR work, taking the individual planning applications, and local consultation, zero-carbon policy into account. which will be decided on their merits by the local Industry will need to develop innovative design and authority. building technologies and techniques, and to support In addition to the first four pioneering locations in these efforts Government will work closely with the industry: the PPS we have said we want to see up to ten Eco-towns The Technology Strategy Board is working with partners to by 2020, so I am making the offer to work with and help enable it to harness the market for environmentally sustainable fund a further six more local authorities in developing buildings, since 2004 investing £46 million in this area. Under proposals through regional and local plans. We have its Low Impact Buildings Innovation Platform a further total offered additional support to two authorities where of £50 million is now earmarked for allocation to research proposals were not sufficiently advanced to be included relevant to new build by 2011. This includes over £30 million of capability building work to be awarded over the next two years in the PPS—Uttlesford and Doncaster to enable them and up to £8.5 million in new build demonstration programmes; to take forward these locations through their local plans if this is the preferred option they choose to pursue. The Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) has a carbon challenge programme which aims to accelerate the home building I have set aside £5 million to support these and other industry’s response to climate change by building homes that areas to carry out further assessment and technical reach level 6 of the code for sustainable homes. Four new work including potential future locations to come through communities are planned which will together provide around plans in other regions. 1,700 zero-carbon, highly sustainable demonstration homes; The eco-towns concept—more sustainable living in I am today announcing with the HCA support for the first new communities—has attracted real interest. When a schemes under the £21 million Low Carbon Community Heating Initiative fund, launched in Budget 2009. Schemes will be whole community is planned at this scale (5,000 homes supported in Exeter, Nottingham, Milton Keynes, Southampton, is broadly the size necessary to support a secondary Birmingham and Newcastle. school) there is an opportunity to completely rethink Eco-towns how transport, employment, retail and other services are provided as well as designing housing to exemplary Eco-towns respond to the demand to build more standards. In practice this means features such as smart homes and to live in a more sustainable way. By radically homes with remote control of heating and ventilation, rethinking how we design, plan and build our homes, real time information on available transport, state of we can create zero-carbon developments which combine the art provision for home-working, including high affordable housing, environmental sensitivity, and quality broadband. outstanding quality. Eco-towns will pioneer genuinely sustainable living setting standards that will need to be The PPS I am publishing today sets out for the followed more widely to deal with the challenge of highest standards for green living ever set. Eco-town climate change. developments must be able to demonstrate essential The new Eco-town Planning Policy Statement (PPS) features to achieve the highest levels of sustainability. that I am publishing today sets out the highest ever Examples of the PPS standards include ensuring: standards for green living, and linked to it I can announce zero-carbon status across all the town’s buildings, including the first four pioneer locations for England’s Eco-towns. commercial and public buildings as well as homes—a significantly These are: Whitehill-Bordon, St. Austell (Clay Country), tougher threshold than any existing or agreed targets; Rackheath (Norwich) and NW Bicester, all led or strongly 40 per cent. of the area within the town to be green space, at supported by their local authorities who can see both least half of which should be open to the public as parks or the potential for their new eco town and the benefit for recreation areas; existing communities in regeneration, higher quality a minimum of one job per house can be reached by walking, jobs and new green infrastructure. Each of these four cycling or public transport to reduce dependence on the car; locations has the capacity to link well into existing all homes are located within ten minutes walk of frequent development—as well as the scale to function as a new public transport and everyday neighbourhood services; settlement. None are self contained developments in smart, efficient, affordable homes taking their energy from the the middle of the countryside. sun, wind and earth. These locations will receive continuing Government Eco-towns offer great potential to test a wide range of innovative support including a share of a special £60 million and emerging technologies because of the scale of the projects. growth fund to support local infrastructure. To ensure we make the most of these opportunities, and to Alongside the new Eco-towns PPS I am publishing a support business innovation, the Technology Strategy Board will work with the selected eco-towns to capture this potential. series of documents which demonstrate the detailed The Technology Strategy Board will look to co-ordinate and work and assessment on which my decisions today are align with the work on eco-towns a range of activities drawing based. These are: on current investments worth over £200m through Innovation an update of the Sustainability Appraisal; Platforms in the areas of Low Impact Buildings, Intelligent Transport Systems and Services and Low Carbon Vehicles and a Sustainability Statement; its programmes in the area of Energy Generation and Supply an Impact Assessment; and Advanced Materials. 47WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 48WS

Eco-towns can play a leading role in the development to safe, healthy and prosperous communities. Biodiversity of electric cars through building in infrastructure such projects are being developed at all four locations, and as charging points as a standard provision in all major include the potential to work with the Eden project public and services buildings. We will work with all the team. eco-town locations to develop their potential for supporting Eco-towns are large developments which will require this technology and in piloting the next generation of all parts of the public sector to work together, and close electric and hybrid cars. working relations between local and central Government. Eco-towns will be major building projects which could I therefore propose to invite each of the eco-town local employ large numbers of local people, many new to the authorities to look at how their LAA could provide a sector and who will require training in the industry. suitable framework for planning future service provision They offer an opportunity to ensure that existing skills and delivery in and around the eco-town area, for are upgraded to deliver the low carbon built environment example through a stronger focus on a lower tier local and equip the construction workers of the future with authority within the LAA arrangement or sub area the skills in sustainable design and building. Where locality agreement. public funds are committed, public sector agencies will I propose to establish a formal relationship between look to use clauses in delivery contracts to ensure a local and central Government, in an arrangement based proportion of apprenticeships are offered and these are on the model of multi-area agreements (MAA), to “green skills” apprenticeships. negotiate the freedoms and flexibilities eco-town areas Eco-towns can pilot and test new ways of delivering will need to realise their aspirations. I wish also to offer public services, as well as making them more sustainable certainty that central Government are willing to work and responsive to climate change, such as new and closely with the local authority and local communities innovative schools to meet the needs of new and existing to make the most of their new eco town opportunities. residents. Department of Children, Schools and Families In addition I am asking the Homes and Communities (DCSF) will support eco-towns to ensure the design of Agency to provide support, expertise and advice to schools, including travel to them, and the delivery of local partners and I expect the HCA’s first step to be play and youth services and facilities are both innovative inclusion of the four eco-town locations in the first and sustainable. We will work closely with the promoters wave of single conversations between the agency and of eco-towns and the relevant local authorities to look local authorities, with the agency assessing the detailed at how best to meet those needs with the aim of ensuring proposals as they come forward from the promoters in that each of the eco-towns has a zero-carbon school in each location, and advising each location on funding, place by 2013. including growth funding. Providing there are proposals We want schools to be sustainable socially as well as which represent good quality and value for money and environmentally. By 2010 all schools should be providing are deliverable within a mixed community context, provision access to extended services for children and families. of affordable housing support in these locations will be Eco-towns in particular should explore opportunities presented by HCA as a regional priority in the allocation for co-locating children’s and other support services of resources from the National Affordable Housing alongside schools for example through Sure Start Children’s Programme. Centres which bring together childcare, early education, The eco-town locations I am announcing today all health and family support services. have existing communities close by or within the area and I want them to benefit from their new eco-towns. Eco-towns will be designed as healthy and sustainable We will, therefore, be inviting existing communities in environments encouraging healthy living for all through the first eco-town locations to participate in the “Green active design principles, community involvement and villages, towns and cities” challenge for communities encouraging healthy behaviours. The Department of announced in the DECC Low Carbon Transition Plan Health will work with other Government Departments published yesterday. In total, 15 communities will be and associated research bodies in seeking to achieve a selected to participate as “test-hubs”, with local residents, zero-carbon standard for health and social care facilities businesses, and the public sector playing a leading role. in the eco towns. The need to develop thriving and sustainable Eco-towns also need to be sustainable travel towns, communities able to take a strong role in shaping their demonstrating how using “smarter choices” can secure community is at the heart of the eco-town concept. To significant increases in cycling, walking and public transport. support community anchor organisations in taking a All the homes in the demonstration projects should leading role in shaping the eco-town proposals, and have secure cycle storage designed in from the outset. subject to local proposals, Government will invite eco-town Good transport links are essential to the success of pilot projects to apply for support within the £70 million any new community. Three of the four eco-town locations community builders fund for community organisations, I am announcing today are well located for rail transport. including for the purchase of community assets. For the fourth, Bordon, I am announcing funding support We have been well served by the Eco-towns challenge for the next stage of feasibility work, working with panel of independent experts and we want to maintain Hampshire county council, to establish if restoration of the creative contribution that independent professionals a rail link can be achieved sustainably and subject to a can make through the CABE design review process, sound business case. CABE design support at local level, and the continuation We want nature to be at the very heart of eco-towns of an independent advisory panel as the eco-town schemes and the development process will be used to restore are developed. wildlife habitats and weave the living landscape back Despite the difficult current market conditions caused together. We expect the eco-towns to become working by the recession, I expect 10,000 homes built by 2016 of demonstrations of the ways that biodiversity can contribute which 30 per cent. will be affordable. To start this 49WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 50WS process we will support early demonstrator buildings to Cosford remains our preferred site for 102 Logistic test and develop from the new technologies needed, and Brigade once the Defence College of Aeronautical so that local communities can help shape their further Engineering (DCAE) moves to St. Athan as presently development. For the next two years I am providing planned in 2014-15, and on current assumptions we £60 million start up funding from the growth fund for envisage the Logistic Brigade moving in 2016. Cosford this work for the four locations identified today. This is is a well found site that has enduring military utility and additional to mainstream funding for services. We expect is designated as a MOD Core Site. We will continue to that the bulk of investment in these schemes will be consider the other opportunities that Cosford affords us from the private sector, but eco-towns will also benefit as the need arises. from similar levels of public investment to any comparable These changes enable us to keep the closure of Rhine large housing scheme and this will include continued Garrison on track and this is currently envisaged as growth funding over the period of major development. being in 2014. We would expect Munster Station to Planning close in 2016-17 assuming 102 Log Bde moves to Cosford With the new PPS, eco-towns set the gold standard in in 2016. development planning, but low carbon living means planning for all new development to cut carbon emissions. Defence Estate Development Plan 2009 Our climate change “Planning Policy Statement” (PPS) published in December 2007 has put climate change at the heart of what is expected from good planning and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence complemented our earlier PPS on renewable energy. (Mr. Kevan Jones): Today the Department has published Neither now fully reflects the scale of the challenge we the Defence Estate Development Plan (DEDP) 2009—the face. But neither fully reflects the scale of the challenge first annual update of this vital internal planning document. we now face in supporting the UK’s transition to a low The updated plan is evolutionary in nature and reflects carbon country. We will therefore review and combine the Department’s consistent estate priorities. DEDP 09 them, consulting in detail on proposals later this year. sets out the authoritative framework, looking forward to 2030, for the coherent development of the estate to meet the future needs of defence, and the priorities for DEFENCE investment and rationalisation arising from it. It also informs our programme of engagement with the regions, Borona Programme which underpins the successful delivery of many of our estate programmes. The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Bill Rammell): The key changes are evolutionary in nature and include, On 15 May 2008, Official Report, column 66WS, my amongst others, cross-Government support to the armed predecessor announced that Headquarters Allied Rapid forces as set out in “The Nation’s Commitment”, and Reaction Corps (HQ ARRC) and its intimate supporting revised targets for improving living accommodation for elements would move to Innsworth in Gloucestershire our people. Other changes reflect specific investment in the summer of 2010. At that time Cosford in Shropshire and basing decisions that support the generation of was our preferred site for 1 Signal Brigade (1 Sig Bde) sustainable military capability. and 102 Logistic Brigade (102 Log Bde) and our aim I have placed a copy of the plan in the House of was to close Rhine Garrison and Minister Station by Commons Library. The document will also be widely 2015. This would leave three enduring garrisons in circulated to external stakeholders and will be published Germany: Gutersloh, Paderborn and Hohne. on the internet. Continuing work on the Defence Training Rationalisation Programme means that Cosford will not be available to achieve this aim. The programme team responsible for Science Advisory Committee on the Medical the moves from Germany to the UK has therefore Implications of Less Lethal Weapons examined alternative site solutions and today I am announcing that the preferred site for 1 Sig Bde is now Stafford. This decision will need to be confirmed following The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence scrutiny of the detailed plans for the move and the (Mr. Kevan Jones): I am pleased to inform the House programme team will now focus on drawing up these that a new non-departmental public body (NDPB) has plans, which will include a competition for the infrastructure been set up, entitled the “Science Advisory Committee and construction requirements at Stafford, with a view on the Medical Implications of Less Lethal Weapons” to occupation from 2013. The team will continue to (SACMILL). consult all interested parties including the local county Previously SACMILL was a sub-committee of the and borough councils, health and education providers Defence Science Advisory Council (DSAC), known as and the trade unions. DOMILL (DSAC sub-committee on the Medical I believe this is a positive defence initiative for the Implications of Less Lethal Weapons). DOMILL had area and complements Stafford’s growth point status become recognised as a valuable and authoritative group which will enable a joint approach between the Government on the medical implications of the use of less lethal and the local authorities to support the defence community. weapons, providing cross-Government advice. Stafford is already the home of 22 Signal Regiment A review by MOD’s director general management (22 Sig Regt) and moving other elements of 1 Sig Bde and organisation (DGMO) has recommended that (7 and 16 Sig Regts) there provides a synergy that will DOMILL should become a cross-Government NDPB be important to the Department and should also be in its own right, sponsored by the Surgeon General. beneficial to the local community. This has placed the group on a permanent footing, 51WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 52WS allowing it to work with other Departments directly ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS rather than through MOD. I will retain oversight on behalf of MOD and will remain informed of the committee’s activities. National Park and Broads Authorities

Service Personnel Green Paper The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence In July last year DEFRA launched an open consultation (Mr. Kevan Jones): I have today published a Green to seek the views of a range of stakeholders on the Paper “The Nation’s Commitment to the Armed Forces principle of whether some members of National Park Community: Consistent and Enduring Support”. and Broads Authorities should be directly elected. Last summer’s publication of the Command Paper, The majority of the national park authorities’ “The Nation’s Commitment: Cross-Government Support membership comprises local authority and parish to our Armed Forces, their Families and Veterans”, was councillors selected by their respective councils, with well received by the services, by veterans groups and by the remainder being appointed by the Secretary of State the public at large. We shall be publishing the first in recognition of the national interest. The Broads annual report in the autumn charting the progress that Authority has a different membership structure under has been made. This work has already delivered significant its own primary legislation to reflect the broads’navigational improvements in a number of areas: interest. Doubling compensation for the most serious injuries; During the passage of the Broads Authority Private Bill the question arose of whether there should be Free further education for service leavers; and parish members on the Broads Authority. As a result Help for forces leavers to get on the housing ladder. this issue was included in the consultation on direct elections. We said last year that we would not allow this strategy A total of 490 responses were received to the consultation. of support to our armed forces community to fade. The strongest support for the principle of direct elections Today’s Green Paper sets out the next step in this came from respondents within the Broads Authority process. We would like to see an enduring shift in the and New Forest national parks for reasons of local way in which public bodies think about the armed democracy and local representation in relation to planning forces community, so that their special circumstances decisions, but there was very little support for larger are taken into account at all stages, from policy formation authorities to accommodate directly elected members. to service delivery. The Command Paper was an important Most stakeholders considered that direct elections step forward; we must now make permanent the approach would not lead to any improved effectiveness or efficiency which it embodied. of national park authorities, including the authorities This Green Paper sets out a range of ideas, including themselves. Many national park authorities, local authorities through possible legislation, for how we can achieve and parish councils expressed concern that direct elections this. It focuses on two strands: making the principles in place of their members would have the effect of enshrined within the Command Paper consistent and disenfranchising the local authorities and parish councils enduring, and providing a new route for recourse. which the park authorities work with leading to the The ideas are intentionally broad and wide ranging. effect of serious repercussions in relation to their influence There is no single favoured option at this stage. We want with other bodies, particularly at regional and national to explore these ideas through a public consultation, level. where everyone can have their say about the best way There appeared to be no consensus on which category forward. The responses received will allow us to make of members to replace to accommodate directly elected informed, collective decisions on how best to take this members. All categories of members have provided a work forward and deliver real and lasting effect for the significant contribution to the effective working of the armed forces community. Authorities. However, many individuals who live in the Where the options relate to devolved matters in Northern parks and MPs have raised the issue of democratic Ireland, Scotland or Wales we will work with the devolved accountability and local representation for local Administrations who are responsible for a number of communities in the parks. areas such as health, housing, education, skills and I have been impressed with the range of community transport in determining how best to take forward the engagement that already occurs, and having carefully principles of achieving equal or similar levels of support considered the responses I have decided not to make for the armed forces community. In these areas the any changes to the current membership arrangements. I Devolved Administrations will wish to consider the am proposing ways of improving the accountability of responses to this consultation in respect of devolved the national park authorities and to apply more consistently matters and determine a way forward that is appropriate some of the examples of best practice across all parks. for them, in consultation with their strategic partners. The park authorities will be required to apply the The UK Government will work with them to deliver a ‘Duty to Involve’ measures contained in the Local solution which supports the armed forces community Government and Public Health Act 2007, which will across the UK. assist local authorities and others in understanding Those who serve on our behalf place all that they what the park authorities are, their functions and how have on the line for this country. In return, the nation people can get involved. has a commitment to make sure that they have the Although there are a range of accountability measures support they need and deserve, when they need it. The already in place, including the holding of authority consultation period will complete on 31 October 2009. meetings in public, local area agreements, formal 53WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 54WS performance assessments and annual inspections by the NPAs could explore whether they can enhance the support Audit Commission, I have also asked the park authorities given to capacity building of parish councils. This might entail, to examine other ways of engaging the public and local as an example, running a joint event for parish councils on the residents in the decision making process, for example; planning system to help build their capacity to engage with policy development and respond to planning applications, and Making the reporting of progress and performance more open offering annual planning liaison meetings with each parish and transparent including information on progress in delivering council to improve understanding of the process. the objectives set out in the national park management plans. Considering whether existing forums provide sufficient opportunities for public involvement in priority setting and Rural Payments Agency improving the engagement of parish councils. Undertaking regular resident and visitor surveys to obtain feedback on the services provided by the authorities, openly The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and publish analysis of these, and demonstrate how they are shaping Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): I have set the Rural Payments the delivery of services provided by the authority. Agency (RPA) the following performance targets for Given the ability of parish members to provide local 2009-10. knowledge, I will also consider more closely the role Service delivery quality they play in existing national park authorities, and ways To administer common agricultural policy and other of enhancing the parish member appointment processes schemes to meet the following requirements: to ensure they are made more consistent and include opportunities for wider public involvement. To have paid 75 per cent. by value of valid single payment scheme 2009 claims by 31 January 2010 and 90 per cent. by I have asked for a report back to my Department in value of valid 2009 claims by 31 March 2010. 12 months time on how the park authorities are building To process and pay at least 90 per cent. of valid claims by on their existing arrangements for engaging the public volume for non-single payment scheme schemes within ministerial and local residents. guidelines and 99 per cent. within the set European Commission On the issue of appointing parish members to the deadlines or in their absence within 60 days of receipt of the Broads Authority, while there was some support for claim. these appointments this should not be at the expense of To record 98 per cent. of notifications of births deaths and a reduction in the existing categories of membership. movements of cattle on the cattle tracing system within 14 days of their receipt. Although I am not in favour of adding parish council members to the Broads Authority at this time, I am To make 98 per cent. of rural development programme for England payments for Natural England and regional development prepared to reconsider the matter if local government agencies in accordance with agreed service level agreements. restructuring meant that there was a need in any case to revise the Broads Authority’s membership. To demonstrate a continued commitment to customers by achieving a minimum annual average customer FOOTNOTE: satisfaction score of 7.0 out of 10.0, as measured through Examples of existing and proposed accountability measures surveys of external customers, and by reducing the in addition to those mentioned above: number of complaints received compared with 2008-09. Existing mechanisms Value for public money Methods by which national park authorities are currently To demonstrate clear progress towards achieving the Treasury accountable for their activities and decisions are numerous disallowance target of 2 per cent. or less of fund value, for all and include: CAP schemes administered by the RPA. NPA meetings being held in public, with the papers made To demonstrate a 9 per cent. reduction from the 2008-09 year available, including on websites. in the cost of administering the agency without compromising service delivery. Formal NPA performance assessments being undertaken which includes peer and stakeholder review and rigorous independent Capacity and capability scrutiny. To demonstrate improved capacity and capability to meet A commitment to public participation which goes beyond targets and implement change. statutory public consultation on the preparation of the national Further details are given in the RPA business plan for park management plan and subsequent publication and monitoring 2009-10, copies of which will be placed in the Libraries of delivery. of both Houses. Publication of NPA corporate plans and other strategies. Undertaking resident and visitor surveys to test opinion and receive feedback on services and priorities. Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Publication of newsletters to both residents and to visitors from beyond the National Park boundary, and customer satisfaction surveys designed in order to improve performance The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for and to ensure services meet customers’ needs. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): Hosting consultative forums that bring town and parish councils, I wish to update the House on recent developments amenity groups and other local associations together to discuss related to the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew (RBG, Kew). shared priorities, and run community and stakeholder forums I am pleased to announce that on 1 August 2009 to gather views. Sir Neil Chalmers, Warden of Wadham College, Oxford Some possible new measures under consideration and a former Director of the Natural History Museum, NPAs sharing good practice in the area of public involvement will commence an independent review of RBG, Kew. and early experience of implementing the ‘Duty to Involve’ Sir Neil will be supported by a small team of independent requirements. consultants. The last review was carried out in 2001, NPAs could consider if cost effective improvements can be although there was a separate independent audit of made to the publishing of forthcoming meetings. Kew’s scientific activities in 2006. 55WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 56WS

Non-departmental public bodies such as RBG, Kew relevant Government Departments to combat the risk benefit significantly from regular and objective reviews, of major diseases entering the country through illegal which examine their role, performance and priorities. imports from outside the EU. To carry out such a review now gives us a timely and UKBA continues to deliver an enforcement strategy valuable opportunity to examine how RBG, Kew can that targets anti-smuggling activity on the highest risk continue to deliver its statutory functions effectively traffic to combat illegal imports of animal products and maintain the quality and value of its scientific into Great Britain (GB) and to review deployment of contribution in critical areas such as the conservation of resources and react flexibly in response to changes in global biodiversity. the pattern of risk. The following terms of reference have been drawn up There continues to be a joined-up approach across to guide the review: Government Departments on an overall communications to conduct an evaluation of the performance of the Royal strategy to raise awareness among international travellers Botanic Gardens, (RBG) Kew in fulfilling its statutory obligations of the personal import rules for food, with a great deal since the last review in 2001; of publicity continuing to be undertaken inland within as part of the evaluation, to pay particular attention to resourcing GB, at the border and also overseas. and the effectiveness of income generation, infrastructure and heritage management and support; to consider how the scientific These are some of the highlights of our working and other activities of RBG, Kew support the objectives of the during the year: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) EU veterinary week in November highlighted the programme and other Government Departments; and to review the existing of already ongoing work in respect of our cross-Government DEFRA sponsorship arrangements; personal imports campaign at border control points, including to consider in the light of this evaluation and the views of a stand at Heathrow airport, terminal 3 during the week which other customers and stakeholders whether the services, activities, had over 5,000 visitors and was covered by BBC Breakfast and organisational arrangements at RBG, Kew remain the news; most effective means of achieving its own, DEFRA’s, as well as new TV filler “Don’t bring me back”, produced to support our Government-wide objectives, such as those relating to climate overall personal imports campaign, has achieved some excellent change, conservation and biodiversity, overall science policy, airtime across a variety of channels with most of the transmissions and the operational efficiency agenda; going out in peak evening viewing time. It has built in value to to assess what changes, if any, are needed in the light of the be one of the top ten fillers of 2008-09. It has also received out findings of the review to improve the quality, effectiveness and of home play in locations such as surgeries and gyms; value for money of RBG, Kew services, and to set out the rationale and to recommend appropriate options to Ministers. food and veterinary office (FVO) visit in November 2008— These should address how best to ensure a sustainable financial inspectors indicated that the UK has a functioning import future for RBG, Kew and its world class science. control system and recognised further improvements made by the UK. The review will be carried out openly and transparently and users, customers and stakeholders of RBG, Kew We will continue to monitor and assess the changing will be consulted. Sir Neil’s recommendations will be threats from around the world, and work with HMRC/ published along with the Government’s response. UKBA and other enforcement partners to make sure that our enforcement activity at UK borders is targeted I will update the House as necessary. at the current risks. Copies of the Review are available on the DEFRA ‘personal food imports’ website: www.defra.gov.uk/ Animal Products (Imports) animalh/illeqali, and will be sent to stakeholders for information seeking their feedback. Hard copies will also be available on request. The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): As required under the Animal Health Act 1981 (as amended by the Animal Health Act 2002) the Government will publish Single Payment Scheme today a review of controls on the import of animal products for the financial year 2008-09. I welcome the opportunity to review and report on efforts during the past year to reduce the risk of disease entering the The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and country via imports of animal products. Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): As at 30 June, the end of the regulatory payment window for the 2008 single The control of imports of animal products remains a payment scheme, a total of £1.625 billion, representing major concern for the Government as we fully appreciate some 99.69 per cent. of the estimated total fund had the devastating effect that disease outbreaks can have been paid in full payments to 104,199 claimants. on our farming of livestock and crops and on the environment and, in trying to protect animal health, we These figures confirm that the agency has helped to know how important it is to take a variety of measures ensure that the UK as a whole has met the EU requirement at the border and inland. It has once again been a that 96.154 per cent. of 2008 scheme payments be made challenging year in monitoring the constantly changing by 30 June. This follows earlier confirmation that the disease situation around the world and evaluating and agency had met its formal performance targets for this responding to threats. We continue to ensure that veterinary scheme year. checks are carried out on legally imported animal products Reaching these targets continues to demonstrate from non-European Union (EU) countries and work improvements in RPA’s performance and levels of service closely with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC)/ to its customers and provide another important step United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA) and other forward for the agency. 57WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 58WS

Of the outstanding 2008 claims on which processing business people and genuine students who come here, is not complete, approximately 400 are expected to recognising the valuable contribution they make to result in a payment in due course. Work continues to economic growth and the way they enrich our society complete the necessary validation of those claims as through cultural exchange. soon as possible. Interest will be paid to claimants on For the immigration system to command public support, sums paid after 30 June on the same basis as for both among the British public and legitimate migrants, previous scheme years. The agency will continue to we need an immigration system that is fair and effective. address any cases of individual hardship as sympathetically The integrity of the immigration system depends on as possible. robust borders, with effective security overseas and in Alongside that work, RPA has already begun processing the UK ensuring and enforcing compliance with our the 107,000 or so claims that have been submitted under immigration laws. To help achieve this, those who benefit the 2009 SPS. Formal payment targets will be announced directly from our immigration system (migrants, employers separately, but I know the agency Chief Executive is and educational institutions) should contribute to the expecting to at least match RPA performance under the costs of the system and enable us to meet our strategic 2008 scheme when nearly £1 billion was paid out by the objectives. end of December. Later this summer the Government will publish a consultation document on charging for certain services we provide. To maintain our world class immigration HOME DEPARTMENT system currently costs over £2.2 billion per annum. UK Border Agency currently recovers approximately 30 per cent. of this spend through fees for applications and Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police services we offer. We believe it is right that users of that system make an appropriate contribution to meeting those costs, to help manage the burden on the UK The Secretary of State for the Home Department taxpayer. The purpose of consulting is to ensure that we (Alan Johnson): I am pleased to announce Her Majesty are getting that balance right in the broader interests of the Queen’s appointment of Timothy Godwin OBE, the UK. QPM as the next Deputy Commissioner of Police of The consultation document will set out some options the Metropolis. on how we can charge for our services. We want a I made my recommendation to Her Majesty following genuine debate on the most appropriate way to charge. an open competition for the selection of a new Deputy We will be engaging with stakeholders throughout the Commissioner and having regard to the recommendations consultation period in order to get the views and ideas made to me by the Metropolitan police authority and from as many people as possible. Copies of the consultation representations from the Commissioner of Police of the paper will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses Metropolis. and will be available for downloading from the UK I am confident that Timothy Godwin will be an Border Agency website: excellent Deputy Commissioner and will help the http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/aboutus/ Commissioner to lead the Metropolitan police service consultations/current/ in delivering for the public both in London and nationally.

Identity and Passport Service Annual Report and Consultation (Charges) Accounts

The Minister for Borders and Immigration (Mr. Phil The Minister for Borders and Immigration (Mr. Phil Woolas): The biggest shake-up to our border protection Woolas): The Identity and Passport Service Annual and immigration system for over 45 years is well underway. Report and Accounts 2008-09 have been laid before the The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill, which House today and copies placed in the Vote Office. will fundamentally overhaul the laws regarding obtaining Publication will take place shortly. British citizenship is currently progressing through Parliament. We will also look to simplify our immigration laws further through legislation to be published later Independent Police Complaints Commission Annual this year in Parliament. Report The UK Border Agency was established in April 2008 to create a strong new force at the border by bringing together immigration, customs and visa checks The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism to strengthen the UK border. We want the UK to stay (Mr. David Hanson): I am pleased to announce that open and attractive for both business and visitors, but today my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to at the same time we are determined to deliver a system the Treasury and I are laying before Parliament the of border control which is among the strongest in the Annual Report of the Independent Police Complaints world. Commission (IPCC), which will be published today. Inward investment and tourism benefit Britain greatly. This is the fifth annual report from the IPCC. The The Government are committed to boosting Britain’s report covers the work of the IPCC during 2008-09 economy by bringing the right skills from around the and includes a discrete chapter on the discharge of world and ensuring that it is easy to visit legally. We their responsibilities in respect of Her Majesty’s Revenue want to continue to welcome the holidaymakers, visitors, and Customs. The report also includes a chapter on 59WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 60WS deaths during or following police contact, which INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT shows continued year-on-year decreases in the number of deaths. During this year the IPCC has continued to make Annual Reports and Resource Accounts (2008-09) significant improvements in their performance having set some ambitious targets. The IPCC has a key role in increasing confidence in the police complaints system The Secretary of State for International Development which will, in turn, impact positively on public confidence (Mr. Douglas Alexander): I have today published, and in the police. In a recent survey conducted by the British laid before Parliament, the Department for International Market Research Bureau, 88 per cent. of those surveyed Development Annual Report and Resource Accounts said they thought the IPCC would treat a complaint for 2008-09 (HC 867-1 and HC 867-11). against the police fairly. I am satisfied that the IPCC is The report sets out the good progress we have made ready to meet the challenges. We will continue to work this year in meeting our aim of alleviating poverty in with the IPCC to ensure it continues to meet its statutory the poorer countries of the world. It provides the first remit. full year reporting of progress against our 2007 public service agreement and our departmental strategic objectives, and reports against targets set in previous spending Intercept as Evidence reviews that are still current. The report also includes our full set of accounts for 2008-09 and the progress we have made on the International Development (Reporting The Secretary of State for the Home Department and Transparency) Act 2006, further underlining our (Alan Johnson): In her written ministerial statement to commitment to transparent and accessible reporting of the House on 12 February, Official Report, columns 87- UK development policies and programmes. 88WS, the then Home Secretary, Member for Redittch, the right hon. Jacqui Smith, provided a progress report on the work being undertaken following the publication of the Privy Council review of intercept as evidence in JUSTICE January 2008. I am pleased to be able to provide a further update, and to explain why I have concluded it is right to Housing: Proportionate Dispute Resolution provide the House with a full report after the summer recess. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Since February, detailed work has focused on testing (Bridget Prentice): I am today announcing the Government’s the practical impact and effect of the model developed. response to the Law Commission’s report on Housing: This work has been undertaken in concert with experienced Proportionate Dispute Resolution. independent legal practitioners. The programme is now complete, and work is now in hand to draw the emerging The Law Commission published its report on 13 May conclusions and test their validity. The Advisory Group 2008. This follows a major programme of work on the of Privy Counsellors, the right hon. Sir John Chilcot, reform of housing law. Unlike most other Law Commission my noble Friend the right hon. Lord Archer of Sandwell, reports, this report does not focus solely on reform of the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan substantive law but rather looks at the broader social Beith) and the right hon. and learned Member for issues of how housing problems arise and how they Folkestone and Hythe (Michael Howard) is following might be better addressed. this closely. Indeed they also see merit in seeking further The report makes recommendations in three broad advice on key points for, as they noted in their interim areas: (i) better advice and assistance (ii) non-formal report in February, the issues are complex. I know they (that is, not involving a court or tribunal) dispute resolution share my determination to get this right. I should like to and (iii) formal dispute resolution. thank them for their continuing commitment and invaluable The Government broadly accept all of the Commission’s contribution. recommendations on the provision of better advice and I look forward to discussing with them the final assistance. Substantial progress has already been made conclusions of the programme. I shall then provide a in improving advice provision and encouraging early formal report to Parliament on the full findings of the engagement, for example, by promoting and signposting work programme, and the Government’s decision in the court users to the community legal advice helpline and light of them, soon after the return following the summer the community legal advice website. recess. The report recommends that promotion of mediation and alternative dispute resolution is an important Independent Safeguarding Authority Annual Report and component of non-formal dispute resolution. The Accounts Government are committed to promoting mediation and using alternative dispute resolution as a tool to The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism ensure court action is a last resort. (Mr. David Hanson): I am pleased to announce that the The Law Commission also recommends the transfer annual report 2008-09 and accounts of the Independent of jurisdiction for a number of different types of cases, Safeguarding Authority (ISA) will be laid before Parliament including stand-alone disrepair cases, from county courts today. to tribunals. The Government have already, separately, Copies of the report will be available in the Vote confirmed that they will transfer dispute resolution and Office. other proceedings arising out of the provisions of the 61WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 62WS

Mobile Homes Act 1983 to residential property tribunals. individual panels need the same types of members. The However, it is not satisfied that a case has been made following chambers have been established in the out for any other transfers. first-tier tribunal: The Government also reject the Law Commission’s Social Entitlement (3 Nov 2008) recommendation that the county court should have War Pensions and Armed Forces Compensation (3 Nov 2008) powers to grant interim relief pending the outcome of a Health, Education and Social Care (3 Nov 2008) local authority internal review in homelessness cases. It Tax (1 April 2009) is usual for parties to have to exhaust all alternative remedies before coming to court. This is a key feature of In the upper tribunal the following chambers have been our policy of encouraging early resolution of disputes/ established: problems, with the court only being used in the last Administrative Appeals (3 November 2008) resort. Local authorities are empowered to take decisions Tax and Finance (1 April 2009), and on homelessness applications and there are statutory Lands (1 June 2009) procedures that are in place to ensure that this is done fairly. The Government consider that there is a significant Further chambers dealing with general regulatory risk that any changes in this area would be exploited to matters and immigration and asylum appeals are to be circumvent these procedures to the detriment of those established in 2009 and early 2010. who are genuinely homeless and in priority need. Everyone who holds a judicial office within the tribunals A copy of the response will be placed in the Libraries service, including those who have or will be transferred of both Houses. into one of the new chambers, have been asked to take the oath of allegiance. So far 2,622 judges have taken the oath. Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 The new judicial structure allows for the flexible deployment of judges, known as “cross ticketing”, within and across the new chambers. This will mean that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice suitably qualified judiciary can hear cases in jurisdictions (Bridget Prentice): The tribunals service was created in other than the one to which they were first appointed April 2006, bringing together the administrative support without the need for a further Judicial Appointments for over 23 tribunals from across government into a Commission competition. This will reduce the costs of single organisation so that tribunals were visibly independent training and support. It will also enable the flexible of original decision makers, and to bring improved deployment of judiciary to meet fluctuations in workloads quality and efficiency in the provision of administrative between jurisdictions; it will encourage greater consistency and management support. of standards and approach across previously disparate jurisdictions; it will assist where there are difficulties in The provisions of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement finding judges for particular locations and where there Act 2007—TCE Act— followed these administrative are recruitment difficulties in smaller jurisdictions. Working changes and created a new judicial and legal framework, with the judiciary, the tribunals service has identified bringing together a range of formerly separate tribunals £6 million of efficiency savings relating to judicial activity into a new unified two-tier tribunal structure—the first-tier in 2009-10 in areas such as reducing adjournments and and upper tribunal—under a senior president, Lord more effective deployment of judges. A further £10 million Justice Carnwath. The first-tier and the upper tribunal in 2010-11 is now being sought. were established under the TCE Act on 3 November 2008, with the first-tier tribunal being the first-instance The judges within this new structure are currently tribunal for most jurisdictions. The upper tribunal mainly, subject to widely differing rates of remuneration inherited but not exclusively, reviews and decides appeals from from the tribunals from which they have transferred or the first-tier tribunal. It also has the power to deal with will transfer and which have or will be abolished. Under judicial review work delegated from the High Courts of the existing arrangements, therefore, many office holders England and Wales and Northern Ireland and from the will find themselves doing effectively the same job as Court of Session. each other for what would be unequal pay. This would hamper effective operation of the system and the delivery The TCE Act has provided a cohesive statutory of efficiencies as well as leave pay inequalities in place. framework for a unified tribunal system dealing with To address these issues, in March 2007 the Government nearly 600,000 cases a year which is committed to commissioned the Senior Salaries Review Body to propose improvement and innovation for the benefit of the a pay structure for the tribunals judiciary following public. implementation of the TCE Act. The SSRB delivered The TCE Act also contains provisions for the jurisdictions its report No.66, Review of Tribunals’ Judiciary of most existing tribunals administered by the tribunals Remuneration, in November 2008. The report includes service to transfer into the new two-tier structure. The 18 recommendations and proposes a single salary structure main exception to this is the system of employment for tribunals judiciary linked to that already in operation tribunals, which will remain as a distinct pillar within for the courts judiciary and some tribunal judges. The the tribunals system. The structure is designed to be report and the Government’s response to each of the flexible so that, in the future, when Parliament decides 18 recommendations have been placed in the Libraries to create a new appeal right or jurisdiction, it will not be of both Houses, the Vote Office and the Printed Paper necessary to create a new tribunal to administer it. Office. Both the first-tier and upper tribunal are divided The Government broadly accept those SSRB into chambers that group together jurisdictions, and recommendations in relation to legally-qualified salaried their judiciary, dealing with like subjects or where and fee-paid tribunals judiciary, as an important step in 63WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 64WS supporting the tribunals service and the new judicial of the Criminal Defence Service. Funding will be available to structure. Addressing the issues identified by the SSRB prisoners with serious concerns about their treatment under the enables the tribunals system to operate as effectively civil scheme, subject to passing the relevant civil funding code and efficiently as possible. criteria. This includes the need to exhaust the prison internal complaints procedure in most cases in advance of seeking legal While the Government recognise and support the advice. This proposal builds on the reforms to Prison Law funding important role played by non-legally qualified members, which were published by the Legal Services Commission yesterday. it has decided not to implement those recommendations The second proposal concerns the removal of the delegated that apply to non-legal members. In taking this decision, powers for solicitors to self-grant legal aid in judicial review cases. account was taken of the level of increases being This follows the rise in failed judicial review applications, many of recommended by the SSRB and the lack of market-based which are funded through legal aid. With the exception of housing judicial review, civil and criminal legal aid providers will no justification in the current economic and public expenditure longer be able to self-grant emergency representation in judicial climate. The Government will be prepared to review any review and will need to seek approval in advance from the Legal specific recruitment and retention issues, which might Services Commission. arise, with any targeted salary or fee supplements being The third proposal concerns restricting routine access to the paid at the discretion of the Lord Chancellor. The civil legal aid scheme in England and Wales for those who are not Government will keep under review the arguments for residents in the UK. Funding for serious matters such as mental drawing a link between the pay of fee-paid and salaried health detention, childcare or child abduction proceedings, domestic judiciary and that of non-legal members in the light of violence protection or emergency housing matters would remain recruitment and retention data and the overall economic available. Funding would also continue for overseas British citizens, climate. European citizens involved in cross border disputes, and those whose country is a party to a bilateral agreement providing access The impact of this new pay structure will see no to legal aid in the UK. change for over 92 per cent. of the salaried judiciary The consultation paper, “Legal Aid: Refocusing on Priority and 37 per cent. of legally qualified fee-paid members. Cases”, is available on the Ministry of Justice website at: Non-legally qualified members pay will be unaffected www.justice.gov.uk. Responses are invited by 8 October 2009. by these changes. Pay costs are expected to be no more than £160,000 in the current year and £400,000 incrementally in the remaining four transitional years. Penalty Notices for Disorder The creation of the tribunals service and the implementation of the TCE Act have been major steps The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor in delivering improved services to tribunal users and a (Mr. Jack Straw): Revised operational guidance to police more effective and efficient system. Rationalisation of forces on the issue of penalty notices for disorder for the judicial structure and, as a consequence, judicial pay retail theft and criminal damage has been published is a key part of that. today. Copies will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Under the PND scheme, established under the Criminal Legal Aid Reform (Priority Cases) Justice and Police Act 2001 (sections 1-11), the police can issue fixed penalty notices of £80 for minor retail The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice theft, criminal damage and cannabis possession. Recipients (Bridget Prentice): My noble Friend, the Under-Secretary have 21 days in which either to pay the penalty or elect of State, Lord Bach, has made the following written to have their case heard in court. If no action is taken, a ministerial statement: fine of one and a half times the penalty amount is The Ministry of Justice has today published proposals to registered against the offender by the magistrates court. refocus limited civil and criminal legal aid resources on priority Under section 6 of the Criminal Justice and Police cases. Act 2001, the Secretary of State has the power to issue Proposals in the first part of the paper are the product of joint guidance to the police on the issuing of penalty notices. working between the Legal Services Commission and the Ministry The latest version of the guidance was issued in March of Justice, and suggest a range of changes to the funding rules to 2005. In view of concerns raised over the inappropriate ensure that legal aid funds are being directed to meritorious cases. use of PNDs, we have now issued strengthened revised Proposals include: guidance on retail theft. This restricts use of the disposal reforming the way that the public interest is considered in to first-time offenders who are not substance mis-users deciding whether to grant legal aid by establishing a new where the value of goods stolen is less than £100 or committee to include non-lawyers, and creating a ring-fenced budget for these cases; where damage caused is less than £300. The definition of retail theft has also been tightened to ensure that the removing certain low-priority cases, such as low-value damages claims, from scope for civil funding, where issues can be disposal can be considered only for cases of shoplifting resolved instead through complaints procedures or ombudsman where normally the goods recovered are fit for re-sale. schemes; I am very grateful to those hon. Members who have tightening the existing rules for granting legal aid for judicial made representations to me about this issue, especially review, following a significant decline in the number of successful the hon. Member for the Vale of York (Mrs. Anne permission applications; and McIntosh). notifying the other side when civil legal aid is applied for to discourage fraudulent applications from those outside the Freedom of Information Act (Records Management) financial eligibility limits. Proposals in the second part of the paper have been developed by the Ministry of Justice and are also aimed at focusing resources The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Mr. Michael on priority cases. The first proposal concerns the removal of Wills): I have today laid before each House a revised advice and assistance on prisoner treatment issues from the scope copy of the Lord Chancellor’s Code of Practice on the 65WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 66WS management of records, issued under section 46 of the LEADER OF THE HOUSE Freedom of Information Act 2000. I have also published a copy of the Government’s response to the public consultation entitled “The Freedom of Information State Opening Act 2000: The designation of additional public authorities”. Copies of this document are available in the Libraries of both Houses and also in the Vote Office and the The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet Printed Paper Office. Harman): Her Majesty the Queen will open the new Session of this Parliament on Wednesday 18 November These publications support the Government’s plans 2009. to increase the accessibility of public information and promote the culture of openness and transparency in public life. On 10 June the Prime Minister committed to a reduction of the 30-year rule to 20-years in response NORTHERN IRELAND to the 30 year rule review. The Government are considering carefully the practical details of implementing a new Northern Ireland Prison Service rule and aim to publish their full response in late summer. Responses to the consultation entitled “The Freedom The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Paul of Information Act 2000: The designation of additional Goggins): I am pleased to announce that I am today public authorities” show considerable support for the publishing the Northern Ireland Prison Service annual principle of extending the coverage of the Act to additional report and accounts 2008-09. They combine the agency’s organisations through a series of section 5 orders. annual performance report and agency resource accounts in a single document that provides a comprehensive The response proposes an initial, focused section 5 overview of the prison service’s financial and non-financial order to be accompanied by action outside the Act to performance for the year. A copy has been placed in the promote proactive publication—by voluntary adoption Library of the House. It is also available online from the of the ICO’s model publication scheme—and openness—by agency’s website at: www.niprisonservice.gov.uk. reminding public authorities and contractors of the existing guidance on access to information, which should inform contracting practices and responses to requests for information. The current list of bodies proposed for PRIME MINISTER inclusion in this first section 5 order are:

Academy schools Ministerial Gifts

Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today Financial Ombudsman Service published a list of gifts received and given by Ministers UCAS valued at more than £140 for the period 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2009. Copies of the lists have been placed in These bodies will be consulted directly, and the the Libraries of both Houses. Government aim to bring forward a section 5 order early in the 2009-10 session. The response also makes clear the Government’s intention to engage with Network Ministerial Travel Rail and utility companies to consider whether section 5 or primary legislation might be appropriate means of including those bodies within the FOIA regime too. The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today published a list of all overseas visits undertaken by FOI depends on good records and information Ministers costing £500 or more during the period 1 April management. This is recognised in the FOI Act by 2008 to 31 March 2009. The list provides details of the provision at section 46 for guidance to be issued in the date, destination and purpose of all such visits and the form of a code of practice. The first code of practice cost of Ministers’ travel and accommodation where was issued in November 2002, nearly seven years ago. appropriate. Total expenditure on Ministerial overseas Much has changed since then, not least the increased visits for 2008-09 is £9.4 million. Copies of the list have use of information technology to create, store, share been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. and publish records and other information. These changes have made it necessary to update the guidance and today the Lord Chancellor is issuing a revised code of Official and Charity Receptions: 10 Downing Street practice. As well as addressing some of the challenges of The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today digital records management, the revised code takes published a list of official and charity receptions held at account of new ways of collaborative working. It also 10 Downing Street for the financial year 2008-09. emphasises the business benefits of good records and The total cost of official receptions held at 10 Downing information management and its relevance to data Street and Chequers for the financial year 2008-09 was protection and other information legislation, as well as £136,000. The costs of the charity receptions are funded to freedom of information. by the charities involved. 67WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 68WS

Date Event Numbers Host

18/03/2009 Government - Real Help Now 90 Prime Minister 17/03/2009 Charity - London Jewish Museum 80 Mrs Brown 12/03/2009 Government - Health Taskforce 100 Prime Minister and Mrs Brown 10/03/2009 Charity - Mentoring and Befriending Foundation 120 Mrs Brown 10/03/2009 Charity - RNIB Reception 80 Mrs Brown 05/03/2009 Government - LGBT History Month 150 Prime Minister 03/03/2009 Charity - McAslan Family Trust 100 Mrs Brown 02/03/2009 Charity - Tesco Mum of the Year 45 Mrs Brown 26/02/2009 Charity - Reading Heroes 70 Mrs Brown 24/02/2009 Charity – St. John Eye Hospital 100 Mrs Brown 18/02/2009 Government - Rugby, Injured Players Foundation 100 Prime Minister 10/02/2009 Charity - Save the Children 100 Mrs Brown 28/01/2009 Government - Regional Editors 150 Prime Minister 27/01/2009 Charity - Centerpoint 100 Mrs Brown 26/01/2009 Government - Apprenticeship Ambassadors Network 150 Prime Minster 21/01/2009 Government - Lobby Journalists 150 Prime Minister 20/01/2009 Charity - Whizz Kids 100 Mrs Brown 15/01/2009 Government - Diana Awards 50 Prime Minister 12/01/2009 Government - Religious Leaders 150 Prime Minister 16/12/2008 Charity - Oxford Philomusica 100 Mrs Brown 16/12/2008 Government - Sun Military Awards 80 Prime Minister 15/12/2008 Government - Christmas Tea 100 Prime Minister 09/12/2008 Charity - Dyslexia Action 80 Mrs Brown 04/12/2008 Government - Teach First 150 Prime Minister 02/12/2008 Charity - Women for Women 80 Mrs Brown 02/12/2008 Government - Eve of Session 170 Prime Minister 25/11/2008 Charity - Caron Keating Foundation 40 Mrs Brown 24/11/2008 Charity - Leeds Pianoforte Competition 100 Prime Minister and Mrs Brown 24/11/2008 Daily Mail Children’s Champions 40 Prime Minister & Mrs Brown 19/11/2008 Government - Special Olympics (held at the British Museum) 170 Mrs Brown 18/11/2008 Charity - Sir John Soane Museum 80 Mrs Brown 17/11/2008 Government - Global Fellows 150 Prime Minister 12/11/2008 Government - Apprenticeship 150 Prime Minister 11/11/2008 Charity - London Jewish Museum 80 Mrs Brown 11/11/2008 Government - Armistice Anniversary 100 Prime Minister 27/10/2008 Government - Black History Month 150 Prime Minister 22/10/2008 Government - Para;ympics 2008 500 Prime Minister 21/10/2008 Charity - Fight for Sight 80 Mrs Brown 20/10/2008 Government - Peace Awards 150 Prime Minister 14/10/2008 Charity - Dress for Success 80 Mrs Brown 13/10/2008 Charity Dinner - Waterford School Trust 40 Mrs Brown 08/10/2008 Government - British Mountaineering Council 150 Prime Minister 07/10/2008 Charity - Lord Mayor’s Appeal 150 Mrs Brown 03/10/2008 Government - Church Leaders 150 Prime Minister 03/10/2008 Government - Olympics Reception(held at Lancaster House) 670 Prime Minister and Mrs Brown 02/10/2008 Government – BSME - Reception 150 Prime Minister 01/10/2008 Government - Older Peoples Day 150 Prime Minister 01/10/2008 Government- Sally Keeble Alcohol Licensing campaign 150 Prime Minister 01/10/2008 Pride of Britain Award winners 40 Prime Minister & Mrs Brown 29/09/2008 Government - National Council for Educational Excellence 150 Prime Minister 15/09/2008 Charity - London Fashion Week 200 Mrs Brown 11/09/2008 Charity - Michael Palin Centre 80 Mrs Brown 10/09/2008 Government - Fulbright Scholars 180 Prime Minister 09/09/2008 Charity - Alan Senitt Memorial Trust 130 Mrs Brown 09/09/2008 Government - ATA Veterans Badge presentation 180 Prime Minister 03/09/2008 Charity – Middlesbrough Institute for Modern Art 80 Mrs Brown 18/08/2008 Charity - Wellbeing of Women 120 Mrs Brown 24/07/2008 Government - Local Heroes/Voluntary Sector 150 Prime Minister 23/07/2008 Government - Women’s Land Army 120 Prime Minister 22/07/2008 Government - Press Lobby 200 Prime Minister 22/07/2008 Charity - Sarah McKechnie Foundation 120 Prime Minister 16/07/2008 Government – TA100 Anniversary 80 Prime Minister 69WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 70WS

Date Event Numbers Host

15/07/2008 Charity - DEERA International 80 Mrs Brown 11/07/2008 Charity – Transplant in Mind 70 Mrs Brown 10/07/2008 Government – Police Bravery 160 Prime Minister 07/07/2008 Government – Business in the Community 150 Prime Minister 02/07/2008 Government – NHS 60th Anniversary 150 Prime Minister 01/07/2008 Government – Creative Economy Programme 150 Prime Minister and Mrs Brown 27/06/2008 Charity Maggies Centres 60 Mrs Brown 26/06/2008 Government - Veterans Day 40 Prime Minister 18/06/2008 Government – Big Arts 150 Prime Minister and Mrs Brown 17/06/2008 Charity – Tom Rhys Pryce 80 Mrs Brown 10/06/2008 Government – Carers 150 Prime Minister 10/06/2008 Charity – PACT 50 Mrs Brown 05/06/2008 Government – Spitfire Tribute Foundation 80 Prime Minister 02/06/2008 Government – Daycare Trust 150 Prime Minister 22/05/2008 Government – Excellence in Nursing 35 Prime Minister 13/05/2008 Charity – Pilotlight 80 Mrs Brown 12/05/2008 Government – Show Racism the Red Card 150 Prime Minister 07/05/2008 Government – Global Day of Prayer 150 Prime Minister 06/05/2008 Charity – New Children’s Hospital Appeal 40 Mrs Brown 28/04/2008 Government – Basra Development 150 Prime Minister

Official Hospitality (Chequers) Kay Burley Emma Burstall Rt Hon. Liam Byrne MP The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today Sarah Byrne published a list of those who have received official Rt Hon. Sir Menzies Campbell MP CBE QC hospitality at Chequers for the financial year 2008-09. Lady (Elspeth) Campbell Marcus Agius Jimmy Carr Kate Agius Silvia Cassinis Tim Allan Carolyn Choa Lord Alii Peter Christian Lisa Aziz Rt Hon. Helen Clark Sly Bailey Vittorio Colao Peter Bailey Rt Hon. Yvette Cooper MP Martin Baker Karoline Copping Rt Hon. Ed Balls MP Judy Daish Lord Bassam of Brighton Matthew d’Ancona Rt Hon. Margaret Beckett MP Eric Daniels Leo Beckett Nici Daniels Nikki Bedi Rt Hon. Alistair Darling MP Sue Birtwistle Maggie Darling Lord Davies of Abersoch CBE Sir Ian Blair Lady Davies Lady (Felicity) Blair Sir Howard Davies Sir Victor Blank Peter Davis Lady (Sylvia) Blank Melanie Dawes Ozwald Boateng OBE Gloria De Piero Stuart Bowery Robert Dewar Tom Bradby Derek Draper Claudia Bradby Rt. Hon. Lord Drayson Lucy Bristowe Lady Drayson Benedict Brogan Jack Dromey Rt Hon. Nick Brown MP Elaine Dumelow Rt Hon. Des Browne MP Johan Eliasch Maura Browne Sir Richard Eyre CBE Lord Browne of Madingley CB Bruce Forsyth CBE Bill Bryson Jonathan Freedland Cynthia Bryson Kate Garraway 71WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 72WS

Lesley Garrett CBE Anna Mann Dr Chris Gibson-Smith Clive Mann Marjorie Gibson-Smith Lesley Manville Pamela Gillies Hon. Debbie Matthews Teresa Gleadowe Charlie Mayfield Tom Glocer Elizabeth Mayfield Maarit Glocer Davina McCall Richard Gnodde Neil MacGregor Kara Gnodde Barbara Melander Rt Hon. Ed Miliband MP Sir Fred Goodwin Rhodri Morgan Lady (Joyce) Goodwin Julie Morgan Chris Gorell Barnes Eugene Moshan Michael Grade CBE Sir Andrew Motion FRSL Francesca Grade John Motson Prof. Malcolm Grant CBE Anne Motson Chris Grant John Mulholland Paul Hamann Rt Hon. Paul Murphy MP Rt Hon. Harriet Harman MP QC Rt Hon. Jim Murphy MP Patrick Hennessy Claire Murphy Stephen Hester Colin Myler Barbara Hester Carol Myler Vikki Heywood Rt Hon. Lord Myners CBE Brent Hoberman Lady Myners Genevieve Hoberman John O’Farrell Lucy-Anne Holmes Jackie O’Farrell Dame Kelly Holmes DBE MBE Dick Olver John Hood Pam Olver Rt Hon. Geoff Hoon MP Charlie Parsons Nicola Horlick George Pascoe Watson Rima Horton Sarah Peters Prof. Caroline Humphrey Andrew Porter Nick Hytner Prof. Anne Marie Rafferty Clive Jones Lord Rees of Ludlow Rt Hon. Tessa Jowell MP Prof. Alison Richard Alan Rickman Ana Paula Junqueira Matthew Robertson Prue Keely Davies James Robinson Ann Keen MP Michael Rosen Alan Keen MP Peter Sands Lorraine Kelly Dr Charles Saumarez Smith Nick Kenyon CBE Romilly Saumarez Smith Ghislaine Kenyon John Saumarez Smith Kyeong-Soo Kim Laura Saumarez Smith Justin King Carey Scott Claire King Most Rev. and Rt Hon. John Sentamu Mervyn King Margaret Sentamu Prof. Francesca Klug OBE Sir Nicholas Serota Martha Lane Fox Michael Shew Vince Leigh Paul Skinner Will Lewis Rita Skinner Rebecca Lewis Penny Smith Ian Livingston CBE Steve Smith Debbie Livingston Sir Kevin Smith CBE Diane Lobatto Lady (Teresa) Smith Matt Lucas Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup GCB, AFC, DSc, FRAeS Dr John Macinnes Lady (Mary) Stirrup Kevin Maguire Dame Barbara Stocking DBE Rt Hon. Lord Mandelson Emma Thompson 73WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 74WS

Justine Thornton Appointing Minister Special Adviser in post Betsy Tobin Baroness Vadera Chief Whip (Lords) Ben Coffman Sue Jackson Benedicte Venn First Secretary of State, Secretary of Geoffrey Norris Katharine Viner State for Business, Innovation and Skills Patrick Loughran Richard Wallace and Lord President of the Council David Walliams Minister of State (Business) Matt Cooke Prof. Cathy Warwick Secretary of State for Children, Schools Francine Bates and Families Alex Belardinelli Richard Warwick Secretary of State for Communities and Ann Rossiter Tina Weaver Local Government Jake Sumner Phil Webster Minister of State (Housing) Ian Parker Lord West of Spithead GCB, DSC Secretary of State for Culture, Media Philip French Lady West and Sport Lenny Shallcross Jill Whittaker Secretary of State for Defence Alaina Macdonald Andrew Bagnall Kathleen Williams Secretary of State for Energy and Polly Billington Emma Williams Climate Change Tom Restrick Greg Wise Secretary of State for Environment, Wesley Ball Andrew Witty Food and Rural Affairs Beatrice Stern Caroline Witty Secretary of State for Foreign and Madlin Sadler/Sarah Commonwealth Affairs Schaefer (job share) Rt Hon. Shaun Woodward MP Secretary of State for Health Katie Myler Camilla Woodward Secretary of State for the Home Clare Montagu Dr. Jane Zuckerman Department Mario Dunn Leader of the House of Commons, Lord Ayesha Hazarika Privy Seal and Minister for Women and Anna Healy Special Advisers Equality Leader of the House of Lords, and Philip Bassett Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Jonathan Pearse Secretary of State for International Richard Darlington The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): Listed below Development Stephen Doughty are the names of special advisers in post at 16 July 2009, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State Mark Davies the special advisers’ pay ranges for 2009-10, the number for Justice Declan McHugh of special advisers in each pay band by Department and Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Oonagh Blackman the total pay bill cost of special advisers for 2008-09. Secretary of State for Scotland John McTeman All special advisers are appointed under terms and Tom Greatrex conditions set out in the Model Contract and Code of Secretary of State for Transport Claire MacAleese Conduct for Special Advisers to provide assistance on David Learn the full range of their appointing Minister’s departmental Chancellor of the Exchequer1 Sam White responsibilities. Catherine McCleod Chief Secretary Tony Danker Appointing Minister Special Adviser in post David Mills Graham Dale The Prime Minister Greg Beales Secretary of State for Wales Andrew Bold Theo Bertram Dan Lodge Nicola Burdett Secretary of State for Work and Will McDonald Nick Butler Pensions Eleanor Wilcox Konrad Caulkett (p-t) 1 In addition, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has appointed Matt Cavanagh Torsten Henricson-Bell and Geoffrey Spence to the Council of Brendan Cox Economic Advisers. Dan Corry Colin Currie (p-t) Patrick Diamond Michael Dugher Pay bands for 2009-10 Justin Forsyth Stuart Hudson The pay bands and pay ranges for special advisers for Michael Jacobs 2009-10 are as follows: Gavin Kelly Richard Lloyd Scheme Ceiling £142,668 Kirsty McNeill Pay Band 4 £88,966-£106,864 David Muir Sue Nye (p-t) Pay Band 3 and Premium £66,512 -£103,263 Nick Pearce Pay Band 2 £52,215-£69,266 Lisa Perrin Pay Band 1 £40,352-£54,121 Wilf Stevenson Anthony Vigor Stewart Wood John Woodcock Advisers by Pay Band Minister for Cabinet Office and the Robert Philpot Olympics and Paymaster General At 16 July 2009, there were 74 Special Advisers in Chief Whip (Commons) and Gary Follis post. The number of special advisers in each pay band Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury Luke Sullivan by department is as follows: 75WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 76WS

Pay band 1 Date Official visit to: Department 1 2 3 4 1 April London No. 10 2 4514 2 April London Cabinet Office 1 8 April London Chief Whips’ Offices 2214 April London (Commons and 21 April Inverness Lords) 30 April London Business, Innovation 111 8 May Belfast and Skills 9 May Eden Project/ Plymouth/ Exeter Children, Schools 2 and Families 17 May Edinburgh Communities and 11 19 May Chandler’s Cross, Hertfordshire Local Government 22 May London Culture, Media and 1 23 May London Sport 28 May Aberdeen Defence 2 3 June London Energy and Climate 2 16 June Belfast Change 23 June London Environment, Food 11 and Rural Affairs 24 June London Foreign and 1 27 June Manchester Commonwealth 30 June Leatherhead 3 Office 4 July Sunderland/ Newcastle Health 1 15 July London Home Office 2 22 July London Leader of the House 11 24-25 July Stratford-upon-Avon/ Gaydon, of Commons, Lord Warwickshire/ Coventry Privy Seal and 26 July Trowse, Norfolk Minister for Women and Equality 28 August Port Glasgow, Scotland Leader of the House 112 September London of Lords and 4 September Liverpool Chancellor of the 8 September Birmingham Duchy of Lancaster 9 September Brighton International 11 Development 16 September Belfast Justice (Lord 1 19-20 September Manchester Chancellor) 3 October Luton Northern Ireland 1 9 October London Office 9 October Birmingham Scotland Office 1 1 10 October Swindon Transport 1 1 17 October Nottingham 4 HM Treasury 133 21 October Sittingbourne Wales Office 1 12 November Watford Work and Pensions 1 1 21 November Harefield, Middlesex Total 12 26 30 1 28 November Leeds/ Halifax 2 December London Paybill costs 4 December London The paybill for special advisers in 2008-2009 was 9 December London £5.9m5. 11 December London 1Plus three special advisers whose pay bands have yet to be 2009 agreed. 7-9 January Derby/ Liverpool/ Birmingham/ 2Plus two special advisers who are paid beyond Pay Band 4 but Swindon/ Newport/ Cardiff within the scheme ceiling. 12 January London 3 Job share 16 January London 4 Includes the two members of the Council of Economic Advisers 23 January Sellafield/ Glasgow who are employed on special adviser terms. 9 February Bromley-by-Bow 5This figure includes salary, severance pay and estimate of pension costs. 13 February Corby/ Coventry 23 February Southampton UK Visits 2008-09 26 February Ipswich 27 February Oxford 28 February Bristol The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today 6 March Dundee published a list of the UK visits I made during the 9 March Belfast financial year 2008-09. 77WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 78WS

sources. It has recently completed a public consultation Date Official visit to: exercise on the revised codes of practice, and on all 10 March London public authorities able to use certain techniques regulated 10 March London in RIPA, the ranks at which those techniques can be 12 March Manchester authorised, and the purposes for which they can be 31 March London used. The Government will shortly table statutory instruments giving Parliament the opportunity to debate a range of proposed revisions to the RIPA framework, Advisory Committee on Business Appointments following this consultation exercise. I am grateful to Sir Christopher, Sir Paul and Sir Peter, and to their support staff, for their work on The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have today these reports. published the 10th report of the independent Advisory Committee on Business Appointments. The report provides The Road to 2010: Addressing the Nuclear Question in an account of the work of the committee in giving the 21st Century advice about appointments that Ministers and senior Crown servants wish to take up after leaving office. The report covers the period 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2009. The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I am today Copies of the report have been placed in the Libraries laying before the House the Government’s “Road to of both Houses. 2010” plan (Cm 7675). This is a strategy that will lead us into the 2010 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) I am grateful to Lord Wilson of Tillyorn KT GCMG review conference and beyond. The “Road to 2010” PRSE, who will stand down from the committee at the covers every dimension of the nuclear issues that are end of this month, having served as a member, and facing us today and sets out how the UK will play a more recently the interim chair, and to the other members leading role in tackling them. Next year’s conference of the committee for their contribution over this period. provides an opportunity to renew and re-invigorate the All have been most generous in giving their time and bargain at the heart of the NPT which grants states expertise to the committee’s work. access to civil nuclear power in return for a commitment The Government are in the process of refreshing the not to proliferate nuclear weapons, and places a membership of the committee. Dame Juliet Wheldon responsibility on nuclear weapons states to show leadership QC and the right hon. Lord Lang of Monkton joined on the question of disarmament. the Committee from 1 April; the right hon. Lord The UK remains committed to the reduction and Macdonald of Tradeston CBE joined from 1 May; and eventual elimination of nuclear weapons, and to ensuring Lord Dholakia OBE DL joined from 1 June. I am that nations have access to nuclear technology for peaceful grateful to Sir John Blelloch KBE, the right hon. Lord purposes. All states, including Iran and North Korea, Maclennan of Rogart and the right hon. Lord Morris have a right to such access—and we are ready to help, so of Aberavon KG QC, who have retired from the committee long as these states reject the development of nuclear in recent months having given it long and loyal service. weapons. To promote the development of cost-effective Work on the refreshment of the committee will be civil nuclear technology which cannot be diverted for completed over the summer, and a further announcement use in weapons programmes, we are launching a nuclear will be made in due course. science centre of excellence. This centre will enhance collaborations between academia, industry and Government, both domestically and internationally, to Chief Surveillance Commissioner, Interception of focus on this important and difficult task. The Government Communications Commissioner and Intelligence Service are committing £20 million over the first five years to this centre. All nuclear material must be held securely, to prevent The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I can announce it falling into the hands of terrorist groups or hostile to the House that I have arranged for the annual reports states. The UK believes that nuclear security must become of the Chief Surveillance Commissioner, the right hon. the fourth pillar of the global nuclear framework, alongside Sir Christopher Rose, HC 704, the Interception of civil power, non-proliferation and disarmament. Communications Commissioner, the right hon. Sir Paul Momentum for greater nuclear security is growing, with Kennedy, HC 901, and the Intelligence Services President Obama announcing a nuclear security summit Commissioner, the right hon. Sir Peter Gibson, HC 902, in the spring of next year, which the UK will take a full to be laid before both Houses on Tuesday 21 July 2009. part in. In order to help reduce the risk that material The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 will be lost or stolen, the UK is making an offer to assist (RIPA) established, for the first time in the UK, a any nation with security improvements should they comprehensive regulatory system to govern the use of a request our help. This assistance could be in the form of range of investigatory techniques, some of which had using our expertise to strengthen security, for example been used without any statutory regulations or safeguards through improving facilities or through training personnel. for decades. RIPA set out clear parameters within which To improve our defensive measures, the Government these techniques could be used, and established an are also providing an additional £3 million to maintain independent oversight regime and an independent our world-leading forensics and detection capability at complaints tribunal. the Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE). The Home Office is now in the process of reviewing The Government recognise that urgent action is required the statutory codes of practice on covert surveillance to address proliferation of nuclear weapons. The “Road and property interference, and on covert human intelligence to 2010” plan sets out a phased approach which will 79WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 80WS enable progress on non-proliferation and multilateral No of Contracted disarmament. In the first instance, steps must be taken Department Cars Cost Notes to improve transparency of current weapons capabilities, as we seek greater control to prevent expansion of those Department for 4 262,400 capabilities. The second stage is verifiable multilateral Environment, Food reductions in arsenals. Finally, we must work globally and Rural Affairs both to establish the security conditions that will enable Department for 4 272,000 International a world free from nuclear weapons and to overcome the Development technical and policy challenges associated with the complete Department for 4 289,800 abolition of nuclear weapons. For our part, as soon as it Transport becomes useful for our arsenal to be included in a Department for 5 301,400 broader negotiation, Britain stands ready to participate Innovation, and to act. Universities and Skills There is growing momentum across the globe to Department for Work 6 428,800 tackle these strategic challenges. The UK has been a and Pensions civil and military nuclear power for many decades and Foreign and 5 367,700 so we have a great deal of expertise to offer. As we head Commonwealth towards next year’s NPT review conference, I am committed Office to making the UK a leading nation in the drive to Department of 6 409,000 develop credible answers to the nuclear questions that Health face us today. It is vital that we make progress—I HM Treasury 6 350,900 believe this strategy sets out what the UK can do alone Home Office 6 483,300 and in partnership with other countries in the period up Law Officers’ 2 148,200 to the conference and beyond to bring us the security Department and prosperity we seek in the decades to come. Ministry of Defence 1 85,100 Ministry of Justice 5 310,600 Northern Ireland 2 286,200 Office TRANSPORT Scotland Office 2 103,900 Wales Office 2 137,000 Cost of Ministerial Cars for 2008-09 Notes: 1. The Minister of State for Trade, Investment and Foreign Affairs was a post held jointly between the Foreign and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Commonwealth Office (FCO) and the Department for Business, (Paul Clark): My right hon. and noble Friend the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR). The Government Secretary of State for Transport has made the following cars (GC) service costs were met by BERR. ministerial statement: 2. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Consumer Affairs was a post held jointly between the Department I am publishing today details of the number of and cost to for International Development (DFID) and BERR. The GC Departments of the provision of allocated cars and drivers by the costs were met by DFID. Government Car and Despatch Agency to Ministers during 2008-09. 3. Cabinet Office figures include cars for Ministers in the Cabinet The figures are: Office, the Prime Minister’s Office and the Minister for the Olympics. No of Contracted Department Cars Cost Notes

Department for 6 274,000 1&2 Crossrail Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform The Minister of State, Department for Transport Cabinet Office 7 426,200 3 (Mr. Sadiq Khan): On 14 July last year, my hon. Friend Leader of the House 3 223,100 the Member for Glasgow, South (Mr. Harris), made a of Commons, the Government’s statement offering assurance to Parliament that a statement Equalities Office and will be published at least every 12 months until the the Leader of the completion of the construction of Crossrail, setting out House of Lords information about the project’s funding and finances. Department for 6 418,300 This assurance was placed on the Crossrail Register of Communities and Undertakings and Assurances. Local Government Department for 3 243,400 Government are committed to ensuring that there is Culture, Media and a high level of transparency as to the progress and cost Sport of the Crossrail project. Our intention in this area was Department for 5 360,900 set out in the Heads of Terms which were signed in Children, Schools November 2007. The Heads of Terms have now been and Families superseded by the Crossrail Core Agreements, binding Department of 3 99,000 legal documents which set out the funding, governance Energy and Climate Change and delivery arrangements for the Crossrail project. These were signed by the Secretary of State for Transport, 81WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 82WS

Transport for London, and Cross London Rail Links Highways Agency Ltd on 3 December last year, and were published in the House Library, with an accompanying statement to the House. Since the assurance was given, Cross London The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Rail Links Ltd has also changed its name to Crossrail (Chris Mole): My right hon. and noble Friend the Ltd. Secretary of State for Transport has made the following In line with my hon. Friend’s assurance to the House ministerial statement. I am therefore publishing this statement within 12 months A new framework document which sets out the relationship of the Crossrail Act 2008 coming into force on 22 July and the revised governance and sponsorship arrangements 2008, and set out below the information outlined in that between the Department for Transport and the Highways assurance: Agency has been published. Copies of the document have been placed in the Libraries of Total funding amounts provided £200.922 million both Houses. Copies will also be available on the Department’s to Crossrail Ltd by the website: www.dft.gov.uk and the Highways Agency website: Department for Transport and www.highways.gov.uk. TfLinrelationtothe construction of Crossrail in the period 22 July 2008 to 30 May Local Transport Act 2008 (Passenger Focus) 2009. Expenditure incurred by £196.803 million Crossrail Ltd in relation to the The Minister of State, Department for Transport construction of Crossrail in the (Mr. Sadiq Khan): The Local Transport Act 2008 includes period 22 July 2008 to 30 May 2009 (excluding recoverable powers for the Secretary of State to confer additional VAT on land and property functions on Passenger Focus (formally known as the purchases). Rail Passengers’ Council—the statutory rail passenger Total expenditure incurred by £196.803 million watchdog) so it can represent bus, coach and tram Crossrail Ltd in relation to the passengers. The Act also enables secondary legislation construction of Crossrail to the to be made requiring certain persons to display certain end of the period 22 July 2008 to 30 May 2009 (excluding information relating to public transport. recoverable VAT on land and The Department for Transport is today publishing a property purchases). consultation on a draft order to extend Passenger Focus’ The amounts realised by the Nil remit and draft regulations requiring bus and coach disposal of any land or property operators to display information on their vehicles about for the purposes of the construction of Crossrail by the who passengers should contact if they want to make a Secretary of State, TfL or complaint. Copies of the consultation materials will Crossrail Ltd in the period be made available on the Department’s website: covered by the statement. www.dft.gov.uk/consultations, and are being placed in the Libraries of both Houses. The numbers above have been provided by Crossrail Ltd and are drawn from their accounts for the relevant Local Transport Act 2008 (Designated Bodies) periods. I can also confirm that the costs of the construction of Crossrail are likely to fall within the agreed budget, The Minister of State, Department for Transport based on best current estimates of costs provided by (Mr. Sadiq Khan): Under section 19 of the Transport Crossrail Ltd. Act 1985, the Secretary of State has the power to designate bodies who may issue permits under that The Government remain fully committed to Crossrail. section to eligible community transport operators. These This is a long-term major infrastructure project, helping, section 19 permits allow the holder to operate transport and responding to, London and the South-East’s transport services for hire or reward, subject to certain conditions, needs for the next half century and more. without the need for a full public service vehicle operator’s We remain confident that Crossrail will be delivered licence. on time and on budget and that the project can be While developing the policy proposals now contained funded as planned. in the Local Transport Act 2008, the Government signalled their intention to review the current list of designated bodies. The Department for Transport will shortly be Annual Report and Resource Accounts publishing a consultation on how it intends to advance this review. Copies of the consultation materials will be made available on the Department’s website— The Minister of State, Department for Transport www.dft.gov.uk/consultations—and will be placed in (Mr. Sadiq Khan): My right hon. and noble Friend the the Libraries of the House. Secretary of State for Transport has made the following ministerial statement. ATOL Protection Contribution I have today published the Department’s Annual Report and Resource Accounts for 2008-09 (HC 454). Copies have been laid before Parliament and placed in the Libraries of both The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Houses. (Paul Clark): The air travel organiser’s licence (ATOL) The report sets out the Department’s activities and achievements system provides financial protection to those taking over the last year. It also describes the Department’s future flight-inclusive package holidays overseas. It ensures expenditure plans for the period of the spending review 2007-10. that in the event of a tour operator becoming insolvent, 83WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 84WS consumers already abroad can complete their holidays cold weather payments totalling over £258 million and and be returned to the UK and those who have paid for almost 263,000 Sure Start maternity grants worth almost their holidays but have not yet departed will receive a £133 million. In addition an estimated 9 million households full refund. It is operated by the Civil Aviation Authority benefited from a winter fuel payment at an estimated (CAA). cost of around £2.7 billion. The failure of XL leisure group in September 2008 The Social Fund Commissioner’s report will be published and the effects of the recession have caused serious later today and copies have been placed in the Libraries financial difficulties for the air travel trust fund (ATTF), of both Houses. which meets the insolvency protection costs of the ATOL scheme. To help address this, between April and June this year, the CAA consulted on possible increases ICL Inquiry Report to the ATOL protection contribution (APC) paid by travel companies to the ATTF. The consultation looked at a range of possible increases to the current charge of The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Yvette £1 per passenger to between £2.50 and £3.50 per passenger. Cooper): On 11 May 2004, a tragic factory explosion Following the consultation, the CAA provided advice occurred at the ICL Plastics premises in Glasgow. Nine to the Secretary of State recommending the APC be people were killed and 33 were seriously injured. Proceedings increased from £1 to £2.50 per passenger with effect were subsequently taken against ICL Tech Ltd and ICL from 1st October 2009. After careful consideration, I Plastics Ltd under the Health and Safety at Work,etc. have decided to approve the recommended increase. I Act 1974 and in August 2007 the companies pled guilty am aware of the extra burden this will place on travel to the charges. I would like to express my sympathy to companies and consumers at difficult times, which is the bereaved families and to the injured survivors. why I have agreed to an increase at the bottom of the In October 2007, the Government and the Lord range consulted on by the CAA. I believe this strikes the Advocate of Scotland announced a joint investigation right balance between ensuring the future financial into the explosion. Lord Gill, Lord Justice Clerk, was stability of the ATTF while keeping additional burdens appointed chair of the joint independent inquiry in on travel companies and consumers as low as practicable. December 2007. Today, I am pleased to announce the I believe that £2.50 for the protection that ATOL provides publication of Lord Gill’s report. represents a good deal for consumers—it is cheaper than stand-alone airline failure insurance and represents I would like to thank Lord Gill and his team for the less than 0.5 per cent. of the average ATOL holiday way in which they handled the inquiry and for fulfilling price. The CAA intends to review the rate of the APC the terms of reference so efficiently. before the ATTF moves into surplus, projected to be by The key message from this report is that this was an the spring of 2012. avoidable disaster and that its causes are clear. While The increased APC will allow the ATTF access to the inquiry has established that the primary responsibility additional commercial credit facilities which will benefit for safety lay with the site user, it has identified that from an increased and extended Government guarantee there were failings across the system. that the Government have agreed to in principle. The In the case of the site user, the report sets out serious Government also intend to consult on reforms to the failings in risk assessment, inspection and maintenance, ATOL system in the autumn to make it fairer and more among others. It refers to both certain inadequacies in understandable for consumers. A copy of the CAA’s the liquid petroleum gas (LPG) safety regime in which advice to the Secretary of State and a summary of it operated in the mid 1970s and late 1980s and the consultation responses will be placed in the House urgency of HOUSE’s response since the explosion. Library. The Government welcome the report and we fully accept Lord Gill’s recommendation that a ‘sharper, clearer safety regime’ is needed for LPG bulk installations. WORK AND PENSIONS Lord Gill’s report proposes that this should be achieved through a four phase action plan: Annual Social Fund Reports The replacement of metallic pipework and steel risers on a systematic and prioritised basis; and early inspection of all buildings that have a liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) supply to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work identify any hazardous features from the design or layout; and Pensions (Helen Goodman): I am pleased to announce the establishment of a permanent and uniform safety regime publication of the annual report by the Secretary of to govern the installation, maintenance, monitoring and State for Work and Pensions on the Social Fund 2008-09 replacement of all LPG systems, including clear guidance on and the Social Fund Commissioner’s annual report responsibilities of supplier and user; 2008-09. the development of a continuing and planned safety regime, particularly in relation to the use of polyethylene pipes; and The Secretary of State’s Annual Report on the Social Fund for 2008-09 (Cm 7677) has been laid before Parliament the improvement of communications between suppliers, users and HSE and also within HSE. and will be published later today. Copies are available in the Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office. In responding to Lord Gill’s report the immediate The report records that total gross expenditure in priority is the replacement of buried LPG pipework. 2008-09, excluding winter fuel payments, was over The HSE has already announced a joint programme £1.1 billion. This included over 252,000 non-repayable of work with UKLPG for the systematic replacement community care grants and over 3 million interest free of buried LPG metallic pipework. This will be a prioritised loans together worth over £761 million, funeral and programme starting in October. 85WS Written Ministerial Statements16 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 86WS

The Government also agree that further improvements Copies of the report are available in the Vote Office are needed to the safety regime in this area, and we and the Printed Paper Office. expect to provide a full response to Lord Gill’s report in January next year. I have therefore today asked the chair of HSE and its board to consider the report’s Rent Service and Child Maintenance and Enforcement findings and to report back to me on progress by the Commission end of September, addressing both Lord Gill’s criticisms of its actions since the explosion and how the report’s recommendations can be taken forward. I have asked The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Yvette HSE to explore with the LPG suppliers and users and Cooper): I am pleased to announce that the Department with trade unions how improvements to the LPG safety for Work and Pensions has today laid in the House the regime can be made. 2008-09 annual reports and accounts for the Rent Service (HC652) and the Child Maintenance and Enforcement I will report back to Parliament in the autumn on the Commission (HC841). The annual reports and accounts progress that has been made and I will ensure that hon. for Jobcentre Plus, the Pension, Disability and Carers Members have the opportunity to feed in their views Service, and the Child Maintenance and Enforcement before the Government’s full response to Lord Gill’s Commission’s separate report on its client fund account report is issued. will be laid as soon as possible.

11P Petitions16 JULY 2009 Petitions 12P

The required inter-tidal habitat creation could be Petitions achieved by the managed realignment of the existing flood defences. This would not increase flood risk on Thursday 16 July 2009 Canvey Island and it would help provide justification for constructing an improved defence that would lower the risk of failure of the current local barriers. This new OBSERVATIONS defence could also provide the opportunity for a new road link for the island; the Environment Agency’s public engagement shows that the limited access/egress to/from Canvey is an issue of major concern to many ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Canvey Island residents. Sea Defences (Essex)

The Petition of Councillor Dave Blackwell, Canvey HEALTH Island residents, and others, Hospital Parking Charges (Cheshire) Declares that the Environment Agency proposal to abandon, to the sea, 800 acres of land on the west of The Petition of residents of Northwich, and others, Canvey Island is wrong; further declares that sacrificing Declares that the car parking charges of the Mid such a large, ecologically and environmentally important Cheshire Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust at Victoria area could increase Canvey’s problems; believes that Infirmary, Northwich are excessive and represent a Canvey issues like flooding, building a thousand more charge on people accessing National Health Services. houses, an additional Canvey access road, hazardous The Petitioners therefore request that the House of industrial plants and protecting Canvey’s very special Commons urges the Government to take whatever action environment are interlinked, and believes these should possible to require the Mid Cheshire Hospitals NHS be considered together as they affect island people’s Foundation Trust to remove the unfair car parking future safety and quality of life. charges at Victoria Infirmary, Northwich. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Mr. Mike Commons urges the Government to abandon its plans Hall, Official Report, 1 July 2009; Vol. 495, c. 439 .] to flood such a large area of Canvey Island and to meet [P000387] with the Hon Member for Castle Point, Councillor Observations from the Secretary of State for Health: Dave Blackwell and Canvey councillors to discuss their The provision of car parking is the responsibility of plans. local NHS organisations, which take into account differing And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Bob local circumstances. In England, hospital car parking Spink, Official Report, 30 March 2009; Vol. 490, c. 761.] charges are decided locally by individual NHS organisations to cover the cost of running and maintaining a ear [P000341] park. Observations from the Secretary of State for Environment, I have been informed that the Mid Cheshire Hospitals Food and Rural Affairs: NHS Foundation Trust is already aware of the petition, The Environment Agency’s Thames Estuary 2100 and has issued a press release to clarify its position on (TE2100) project has developed a long-term tidal flood this important matter. risk management for the estuary. This plan sets out Stroke Services (London) what is required to manage increasing flood risk through to the end of the century and also identifies seven The Humble Petition of the people of Croydon, potential locations where the alignment of defences Sheweth, that there is just cause and need to maintain could be changed in order to create new inter-tidal Mayday University Hospital’s Hyper-Acute Stroke Unit habitat which is being lost locally through sea level rise. (HASU) as not only is it critical to receive treatment West Canvey Marshes, as a former saline marsh, is one after a stroke within thirty minutes, but also because of those potential locations. Although West Canvey has Mayday is ranked in the top ten per cent of HASUs in been identified as one of seven potential sites, with the country. demonstrable benefits and advantages, no decision has Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your Honourable been made and the proposal is open to full and transparent House will urge the Government to preserve Mayday consultation. University Hospital’s funding at a level that will allow it The creation of new inter-tidal habitat is required to maintain and expand its HASU provision following under the European Birds and Habitats Directive to Healthcare for London’s review of stroke services; and compensate for habitat lost due to sea level rise. The will further urge the Government to prevail upon Healthcare Environment Agency in consultation with Natural England for London to recognise the need for Mayday’s HASU have assessed that around 1,200 hectares of this designated to remain open and to operate twenty-four hours a day. habitat will be lost in the estuary as sea levels rise over And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever the century. Inter-tidal habitat is vitally important for pray, &c.—[Presented by Mr. Andrew Pelling, Official the continued health of the estuary ecology providing Report, 26 June 2009; Vol. 494, c. 1112 .] both a feeding ground for birds and a source of food for the estuary fishery. West Canvey Marshes, which are [P000385] owned by the RSPB, would be a sustainable site for Observations from the Secretary of State for Health: inter-tidal habitat creation because it retains the topography Although the Department of Health provides strategic of the original salt marsh that occurred in that area leadership to the NHS and social care, power is devolved before it was reclaimed and drained in the 17th century. and it is for local NHS organisations to plan, develop 13P Petitions16 JULY 2009 Petitions 14P and improve services for local people. Therefore, any Mayday hospital was not a preferred option for a proposals for improvements to services are matters to HASU, however it was recommended that the Hospital be decided locally. should retain its stroke unit. Healthcare for London has told us that it has consulted Acute Trusts, such as Mayday Healthcare NHS Trust, on the best way to improve and specialise stroke and receive funding through PCTs, which commission services trauma care in the capital. The consultation proposals from them. If Mayday hospital retains its stroke unit, it suggested the establishment of eight Hyper Acute Stroke will receive sufficient funding through these channels to Units (HASUs) supported by a network of stroke units. enable it to provide excellent 21st century stroke care. HASUs represent a completely new service for Londoners, The consultation responses were published on 29 June offering an immediate brain scan and if appropriate, 2009. All Primary Care Trusts (PCTs) are being asked clot-busting drugs within 30 minutes of arriving at to submit responses for consideration by the Joint hospital. All Londoners will be within 30 minutes Committee of PCTs (JCPCT). ambulance journey time of a HASU. Following receipt of these comments, and an assessment The location of the HASUs will be determined not of the responses provided by the Clinical Advisory only by the potential quality of services, but also by the Group, the JCPCT will consider all the information and location of the hospital. HASUs must be evenly spaced make decisions and recommendations. This meeting is around the capital to ensure everyone can reach the care timetabled to be held on 20 July 2009. they need within 30 minutes. Therefore some high In such circumstances it would therefore be wrong for performing hospitals will not be designated as HASUs. the Secretary of State or Ministers to intervene. 551W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 552W

Jim Fitzpatrick: We constantly strive to maximise the Written Answers to positive and mitigate the negative effects of all agricultural production by working closely with industry to ensure Questions our food is produced in a sustainable and affordable way. We are also keen to maintain a thriving farming and food sector which can improve its net impact on a Thursday 16 July 2009 healthy, resilient, productive and diverse natural environment. For example, in addition to ensuring compliance with WALES new environmental regulations, DEFRA is working with the agricultural industry to deliver improvements Public Expenditure through the Milk Roadmap and the industry led Beef and Lamb Roadmap, as well as stimulating initiatives Hywel Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for on enhancing environmental performance in the pig Wales whether the draw-down by the National industry through the work of the Pigmeat Supply Chain Assembly for Wales of its allocation under EU Task Force. Each activity aims to target the reduction structural funds on top of its Barnett-determined of environmental and climate change impacts and assess budget resulted in a reconciliation deduction in the the positive benefits to the landscape and biodiversity overall block grant for Wales in each year since 2005. of animal husbandry while also highlighting any areas [287273] for further research and improvement.

Mr. Hain: Until 2005-06 departmental expenditure Batteries: Recycling limits only included the expenditure element of EU structural funds and additions were made to the Wales Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for departmental expenditure limit beyond the Barnett Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what Formula. The receipts were paid separately to the National estimate he has made of the percentage of batteries Assembly for Wales and were therefore identified separately were recycled in each year since 1997; [286351] in the calculation of the block grant. (2) how many (a) car batteries and (b) alkaline From 2006-07 the budgeting arrangements for EU batteries were purchased in the latest period for which receipts changed and departmental expenditure limits figures are available; and how many such batteries were were expressed net of EU receipts. Thus no deduction is (i) disposed of by (A) landfill, (B) incineration and now necessary. The receipts continue to be paid into (C) other means were (ii) recycled and (iii) reused in the the Welsh Consolidated Fund and are additional to the last year for which figures are available; [286360] block grant. (3) how many spent batteries other than vehicle batteries entered the waste stream in the last 12 months; what mass of each heavy metal was used in ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS those batteries; and what percentage of such batteries were recycled. [286361] Agriculture Dan Norris: This information has not been collected Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for centrally in the past. The new Waste Batteries and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the average Accumulators Regulations (SI 890/2009) will provide length of the growing season was in each county of such data in the future. Our best estimates for the England in (a) 1978, (b) 1988, (c) 1998 and (d) 2008. quantity of batteries on the UK market and recycled [286363] are contained in the Impact Assessment published with the Batteries and Accumulators Regulations 2009: Jim Fitzpatrick: The growing season is the period of http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/em/uksiem_20090890_en.pdf time each year during which plants can grow. The We estimate that the annual UK market for. portable thermal growing season length is defined as beginning batteries is around 30,000 tonnes. Market reports suggest when the temperature on five consecutive days exceeds that more than 70 per cent. of retail sales are alkaline 5° C and ending when the temperature on five consecutive batteries. Only about 3 per cent. of waste portable days is below that threshold. batteries are thought to be recycled currently. Meteorological Office information shows that the The most recent estimate of the car batteries market average length of growing season in central England is that about 131,000 tonnes of car batteries were placed was (a) 223 days in 1978 (249 days on average 1969 to on the market in 2006. This is thought to be rising 1978) (b) 258 days in 1988 (248 days on average 1979 annually. to 1988) (c) 213 days in 1998 (270 days on average 1989 About 143,000 tonnes of waste arise from car batteries to 1998) and (d) 249 days in 2008 (279 days on average annually. About 60 per cent. of a lead-acid battery—the 1999 to 2008). It should be noted that there can be type typically used in cars—is lead. We estimate that considerable variation from year to year. Data on the about 99 per cent. of this is recycled annually. length of growing season at county level are not available. The amount of industrial batteries sold in the UK in Mr. Mullin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006 is estimated to be about 69,000 tonnes. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is About 34,000 tonnes of waste arises from industrial taking to (a) assess and (b) tackle the environmental batteries annually and it is estimated that about 32,000 and social effects of intensive meat and dairy industries; tonnes are recycled. We do not have estimates of the and if he will make a statement. [286770] amount of heavy metals in industrial or portable batteries. 553W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 554W

Few if any batteries will be reused when they become Huw Irranca-Davies: The following table shows coastal waste because common practice is to dispose of batteries defence projects on which authorities are likely to incur when they are spent. expenditure in any of the years 2009-11, 2010-11 and 2011-12 and where timber is likely to form a significant Birds: Imports part of the works. The table is based on forward planning project information, so should be regarded as indicative Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for rather than definitive. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many birds were seized by HM Revenue and Customs under the Estimated Convention of International Trade in Endangered construction Species in each year since 2000. [284513] Project Title Lead authority start Mr. Woolas: I have been asked to reply. East Clough Environment 2010-11 Agency The following table provides data, from HM Revenue Brightlingsea Tidal Defences Environment 2011-12 and Customs central records, for specimens seized for Phase 2 Agency years 2005-06, 2006-07 and 2007-08. Broadland Environment Ongoing Birds Agency Number of specimens seized Broomhill Sands Coastal Defence Environment 2011-12 Scheme Agency 2005-06 310 Denge Environment 2009-10 2006-07 3 Agency 2007-08 0 Denver Little Eyes Sluice Environment 2008-09 Agency These birds were seized using customs enforcement powers in relation to live animals listed as endangered Donna Nook Environment 2010-11 Agency species under Council Regulation (EC) No 338/97 on Dymchurch Environment 2011-12 the protection of species of wild fauna and flora. Agency For the years 2000 to 2004-05 information on all Folkestone To Cliff End Schemes Environment 2011-12 CITES specimens seized by the former HM Customs Package Agency and Excise can be found on the DEFRA website at: Great Yarmouth Environment 2010-11 http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/trade-crime/ Agency cites/action-uk.htm#enforcement Happisburgh/Winterton 3B Works Environment 2011-12 Further breakdown of the 2000 to 2004-05 figures Agency can be achieved only at a disproportionate cost. High Knocke to Dymchurch Sea Environment 2009-10 Defence Agency Coastal Areas: Flood Control Hunstanton/Heacham Beach Environment 2007-08 Management Agency Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Lancing Brook Outfall Environment 2010-11 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what his Reconstruction Agency Department’s policy is on the procurement of timber Lincshore 2005 to 2010 Environment 2005-06 for use in sea defence projects; and if he will make a Agency statement. [286476] Lincshore 2010 to 2015 Environment 2010-11 Agency Huw Irranca-Davies: Since 2000, UK Government Med merry Managed Realignment Environment 2011-12 Departments have sought to procure products made Agency from timber that is legally harvested and grown in Pett Shingle Renourishment Phase Environment 2011-12 sustainably managed forests or plantations. From April 2-6 Agency 2009, UK Government departments will now only accept Pevensey Bay Outfalls Environment 2010-11 timber that has been verified as legal and sustainable, or Agency licensed under Forest Law Enforcement, Governance Pevensey Bay Environment Ongoing and Trade (FLEGT) Voluntary Partnership Agreements. Agency Most of the work on sea defences is undertaken by Redcar Environment 2010-11 the Environment Agency and they purchase all timber Agency in accordance with the Government’s timber procurement Sandwich Bay Sea Defences (Deal) Environment 2011-12 policy.In addition, timber is purchased whenever available, (Note start may be early 2012-13) Agency from one of the five Category A accredited certification Seasalter Environment 2010-11 scheme sources recognised by the Central Point of Agency Expertise on Timber. Limited evidence prohibits this Shaldon and Ringmore Environment 2010-11 approach being used for tropical hardwood, here, in line Agency with Government policy; the Environment Agency obtain Stanah Sea Defences Environment 2008-09 evidence demonstrating legality, sustainability and Agency traceability through the supply chain (Category B evidence). Steart Managed Realignment Environment 2011-12 Agency Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Swinefleet Environment 2009-10 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what sea defence Agency projects involving the use of timber for construction his Department plans to fund in (a) 2009-10 and Teignmouth Estuary (Back Beach) Environment 2011-12 Agency (b) 2011-12. [286479] 555W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 556W

Dan Norris: The Department for Environment, Food Estimated construction and Rural Affairs’ (DEFRA’s) information asset register Project Title Lead authority start provides detail on many of the databases, including those containing personal data, managed by the Thornton - Cleveleys (Local Environment 2011-12 Department. This register is available on the Department’s Authority led scheme with Agency Environment Agency website at: Contribution) http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/opengov/defra/available/ Walberswick to Dunwich Frontage Environment 2010-11 iar/index.htm Agency The additional details requested about these assets, and Ageing Groynes - Selsey – 9-10 Chichester 2009-10 full details of databases not included in the information Council asset register, are not held centrally and can be provided Worthing Worthing 2009-10 only at disproportionate cost. Council All databases containing personal data maintained by DEFRA are in accordance with the Data Protection Departmental Billing Act. Following the publication of the cross-Government data handling review in June 2008, staff establishing Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State new projects and programmes in the Department that for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to hold significant amounts of personal data are obliged the Answer of 3 June 2009, Official Report, column to conduct privacy impact assessments. 484W, on departmental billing, how much his Department’s non-departmental public bodies have paid in interest under the Late Payment of Commercial Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Debts (Interest) Act 1998 in the last three years. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which of the planned databases that will be managed by his [282325] Department or one of its agencies and which will hold Dan Norris: The Department does not hold information personal information on members of the public are regarding payments made to suppliers under the Late expected to become operational in each of the next five Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1988 by years; and if he will make a statement. [286145] the Department’s Non Departmental Public Bodies (NDPB). Each NDPB is required to publish such payments Dan Norris: Information about which of the planned in their independent annual accounts. databases that will be managed by the Department or Departmental Databases any of its agencies and which will hold personal information on members of the public that are expected to become Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for operational in each of the next five years can be provided Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what categories only at disproportionate cost to the Department. of personal information on members of the public are Routine assurance of database developments during contained on each database which contains such data the business planning cycle ensures that any planned managed by his Department and its agencies; when databases containing personal information are identified each category of information was first collected; and if before development commences and referred to the he will make a statement. [284896] departmental data protection team to ensure that they adhere to the Data Protection Act. Dan Norris: The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ (DEFRA) Information Asset register Moreover, following the publication of the cross- provides detail on many of the databases, including Government data handling review in June 2008, staff those containing personal data, managed by the establishing new projects and programmes that hold Department. This register is available on the Department’s significant amounts of personal data are obliged to website at: conduct privacy impact assessments. http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/opengov/defra/available/ iar/index.htm Departmental Work Experience The additional details requested about these assets, and full details of databases not included in the Information Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Asset Register, are not held centrally and can be provided Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many only at disproportionate cost. (a) paid and (b) unpaid graduate internships his All databases containing personal data maintained Department has awarded in each of the last six months. by DEFRA are in accordance with the Data Protection [281516] Act. Following the publication of the cross Government data handling review in June 2008, staff establishing Dan Norris: In each of the last six months the new projects and programmes in the Department that Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs hold significant amounts of personal data are obliged has awarded no graduate internships, on either a paid to conduct privacy impact assessments. or unpaid basis. Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Five graduate internships commenced placements with Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what databases DEFRA on 6 July 2009, three via the Cabinet Office managed by his Department and its agencies hold Summer Development Programme (ethnic minorities) personal information on members of the public; on and two from the Summer Placement Scheme (disability). what date each such database became operational; and All interns are engaged on a paid basis at executive if he will make a statement. [285975] officer level. 557W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 558W

DEFRA is actively exploring ways of increasing its Public understanding of sustainable consumption of food graduate internship numbers via HMG’s Public Sector Public understanding of sustainable energy consumption in Jobs imperatives, and we are registered as an organisation the home with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Public understanding of sustainable leisure and tourism Graduate Talent Pool online matching programme. Public understanding of sustainable transport We anticipate recruiting graduate interns via the Cabinet 2007-08 Office schemes mentioned above in 2010. Public Understanding of Links between Climate Change and EC Law Energy and Food consumption in the Home Per Capita Carbon Footprints Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Public Understanding of Sustainable Clothing Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he Public attitudes to Climate Change Waves 6 and 7 has made of the proportion of statutory obligations Natural Environment Desk Research provided for by legislation on matters for which his Natural Environment Qualitative Research Department is responsible which were introduced as a DEFRA survey of public attitudes and behaviours towards the consequence of obligations arising from EU legislation environment 2007 in the latest period for which figures are available. Carbon Offsetting Qualitative Research [281865] Young People Climate Change Tracker Dan Norris: It is very difficult to provide precise Public attitudes towards wildlife management figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems ACTONCO2 Tracking from the European Union. Desk research on conservation volunteering The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried 2008-09 out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of Public Understanding of Sustainable Water Use in the Home administrative burdens stemming from the EU at Public perceptions of short term actions government could approximately one third of the total administrative take to mitigate climate change burden. Tracker survey of public attitudes and behaviours towards the The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, environment 2009 which could of course be a devolved administration or a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, Environment Protection: York but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective of their origins, should comply with the principles of Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the (a) proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their specific purpose and (b) monetary value was of each objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The special environmental grant awarded by his Government continue to work with European partners Department to City of York Council in each year since to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. 2003. [285755] Environment Protection: Public Opinion Dan Norris: There are a number of environmental grants in existence and it is unclear which special Mr. Peter Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State environmental grants are being referred to. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what publicly-funded research has been undertaken by his The city of York council received £359,838.71 in Department into (a) levels of public interest in and 2008-09 and £361,122.65 for 2009-10 as part of a waste (b) public attitudes towards environmental issues in infrastructure capital grant. Waste infrastructure capital grants are paid to local authorities in recognition of the the last five years. [287125] need to get front-end waste infrastructure, e.g. recycling Dan Norris: The list details the research projects that and composting facilities, on the ground in time to help the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs England meet landfill targets. has undertaken to assess levels of public interest in and Agri-environment schemes are administered by Natural public attitudes towards environmental issues in the last England on behalf of DEFRA. There have been no five years. Countryside Stewardship Scheme or Higher Level Scheme This list includes projects commissioned by DEFRA’s agreements with the city of York council since 2003. Sustainable Behaviours Unit and also projects commissioned through the Central Office of Information. Flood Control: Expenditure 2004-05 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Climate Change Desk Research (attitudes) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much his 2005-06 Department has spent on flood protection measures Public Attitudes to Climate Change Waves 1, 2 and 3 in (a) England, (b) Yorkshire and the Humber and Public tracking (c) the City of York in each year since 2003. [285756] 2006-07 Public attitudes to Climate Change Waves 4 and 5 Huw Irranca-Davies: The table shows: Youth Climate Change omnibus Total expenditure by DEFRA—including by DEFRA through the Environment Agency, local authorities and Internal Drainage Approach to ecosystems Boards—on flood and coastal risk management in England from Public understanding of sustainable finance and investment the 2004-05 financial year; and 559W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 560W

Environment Agency investment of grant in aid (from DEFRA) through its regional flood defence committee for the Yorkshire Funding (£ million) region and expenditure in respect of the city of York. 2005-06 506.4 2006-07 497.3 £ million 2007-08 499.8 Yorkshire and Total for Humber 2008-09 564.1 England region City of York

2004-05 405.5 33.4 0.75 Flood Control: Standards 2005-06 506.4 40.7 0.95 2006-07 497.3 34.0 0.76 Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 499.8 35.2 0.69 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what 2008-09 564.1 41.8 0.73 assessment his Department has made of the Notes: effectiveness of BSI Kitemark-approved products in 1. The figures do not include Government funding to local authorities reducing flood risk; and what the cost to the by means of revenue support grant nor funding DEFRA has retained Environment Agency was of sponsorship of the for the implementation of the Pitt Review recommendations, adaptation, resistance and resilience measures. These data are published on the Kitemark; [285992] DEFRA website. (2) what assessment his Department has made of the 2. The totals for England include resource and capital funding to the merits of BSI Kitemark for products to promote flood Environment Agency and funding to the Environment Agency to grant aid local authority and Internal Drainage Board flood risk defence and flood resilience; and if he will make a management capital improvement projects. statement. [285993] 3. The resource budget funds maintenance and operational costs of the Environment Agency’s flood and coastal erosion risk management Huw Irranca-Davies: The kitemark scheme is a British activities, and the capital programme funds new and improved defences and projects. Standards (BSi) accreditation scheme for products meeting 4. The totals for England for 2004-05 to 2007-08 are based on specified standards. In the case of flood protection outturns, data for 2008-09 on budgeted amounts. products, accreditation is given to those that comply 5. The totals for England for 2004-05 and 2005-06 include capital with publicly available specification (PAS) 1188. To grant and supported capital expenditure (resource) to local authorities gain the BSi kitemark, products must undergo rigorous and Internal Drainage Boards. testing to demonstrate that they are able to provide Flood Control: Finance effective property level flood protection. A working group with representatives from the flood resilience product manufacturers, the flood protection Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for association, the Association of British Insurers, insurance Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much his companies, DEFRA and HR Wallingford has recently Department has allocated to the Environment Agency assessed the current BSi kitemark scheme for flood for flood defence grants in each year since 1997; and protection products. It was agreed that the scheme is what expenditure his Department has incurred on necessary to ensure product quality compliance, and as flood defences in each such year. [286474] a result it was re-issued in April this year. The cost to the Environment Agency of the working Huw Irranca-Davies: The following table shows total group assessment and revising and re-issuing a test funding from DEFRA (and its predecessors) to the scheme was £72,000. Environment Agency for flood and coastal erosion risk management. This includes funding for grants to internal Floods drainage boards and local authorities for capital improvement projects. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the Until 2004-05 the flood risk management function of answer of 25 June 2009, Official Report, column the Environment Agency was funded primarily through 1087W, on floods: Canvey Island, if he will make it his a combination of grants from DEFRA (and its policy to estimate the number and proportion of predecessors) for specific projects and levies on local buildings in flood risk areas which (a) are not authorities. The data shows funding from DEFRA and flood-resistant and (b) are flood-resistant. [285534] does not include funding from other sources, such as local government investment using settlement funding Huw Irranca-Davies: We have no plans to require and levies to the Environment Agency. assessments of whether properties have flood resistant The figure for 2008-09 is based on budgeted amounts, products. These will typically only be made by householders subject to confirmation of final outturns. for their own purposes or where it is relevant to the development of a flood management scheme. Funding (£ million) Fluoride: Drinking Water 1997-98 87.1 1998-99 78.3 Mr. Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for 1999-00 75.5 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the 2000-01 71.4 answer of 17 June 2009, Official Report, column 380W, 2001-02 84.7 on fluoride: drinking water, what assessment the 2002-03 128.4 Drinking Water Inspectorate made of the adequacy of 2003-04 135.5 the remedial action taken by Severn Trent Water 2004-05 405.5 following the addition of excessive levels of fluoride to the water supply in 2000. [286594] 561W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 562W

Huw Irranca-Davies: In January 2009, the Drinking Percentage of ancient woodland by county Water Inspectorate sent Severn Trent Water its full Original inventory Current inventory assessment of the incident that occurred in 2008; it Essex 2.4 2.4 made 14 recommendations for improvement. In February 2009, the Inspectorate carried out an independent audit Gloucestershire 6.7 6.8 of Dimmingsdale Water Treatment Works and made Greater Manchester 0.6 0.7 eight recommendations and three comments about best Hampshire 6.8 7.6 practice. On 3 February 2009, Severn Trent Water wrote Hereford and 4.7 4.8 formally to the inspectorate confirming the action it Worcester had taken, and will be taking, to comply fully with the Hertfordshire 3.3 3.5 Inspectorate’s findings. Scrutiny of company actions by Humberside 0.2 0.2 the Inspectorate continues. London 1.6 1.6 Isle of Wight 4.1 4.2 Forestry Kent 8.0 7.4 Lancashire 0.9 1.0 Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when the last Leicestershire 1.0 1.0 meeting of the UK Forestry Ministers’ Group took Lincolnshire 1.0 1.1 place; and when the next meeting of the group is Merseyside 0.2 0.0 scheduled. [286181] Norfolk 0.5 0.5 North Yorkshire 1.7 1.8 Huw Irranca-Davies: The last meeting of the UK Northamptonshire 2.7 2.9 Forestry Ministers’ Group took place on 20 October Northumberland 1.0 1.0 2005 to discuss forestry and climate change. Nottinghamshire 1.0 1.2 Forests Oxfordshire 2.9 3.0 Shropshire 2.7 2.7 Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Somerset 2.6 2.7 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what percentage South Yorkshire 2.9 2.9 of each county was covered by ancient woodland in Staffordshire 2.1 2.1 (a) 1988, (b) 1998 and (c) 2008. [286364] Suffolk 1.1 1.2 Huw Irranca-Davies: Figures for the years requested Surrey 5.8 5.8 are not held. Tyne and Wear 2.0 2.2 Warwickshire 2.1 2.1 The original ancient woodland inventory was carried out in the mid-1980s and was based on manual West Midlands 0.8 0.8 measurements of maps. The percentage by county recorded West Sussex 8.5 9.2 at that time is shown in the following table. West Yorkshire 1.7 1.9 Wiltshire 3.7 3.7 The original data was transferred to a digital map basis in the mid-1990s when it was updated and it has continued to be revised as new information becomes Hazardous Substances: Waste Disposal available. The current percentage by county is shown in the following table. Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Although ancient woodland cannot be recreated, areas Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many have been added and removed from the inventory to businesses in each region produced hazardous waste in reflect new information on the status of the woodland. each year since 1997. [286352] The vast majority of the changes in the inventory over Dan Norris: This data from the Environment Agency this period are due to such corrections and adjustments shows the number of premises in each region producing to boundaries from the digitising process, and do not hazardous waste in 2006 and 2007. Data for 2008 is not represent actual change on the ground. yet available. Percentage of ancient woodland by county Original inventory Current inventory Sites Region 2007 2006 Avon 2.4 2.1 Bedfordshire 2.1 2.2 Unclassified1 4,346 5,135 Berkshire 4.6 4.4 East Midlands 27,611 27,014 Buckinghamshire 4.5 4.7 East of England 38,383 39,207 Cambridgeshire 0.8 0.8 London 35,827 37,312 Cheshire 0.7 0.8 North East 13,850 12,915 Cleveland 2.5 2.3 North West 36,759 36,047 Cornwall and Isles 1.9 2.0 South East 56,485 57,096 of Scilly South West 33,137 33,209 Cumbria 2.3 2.5 Wales 17,229 16,271 Derbyshire 1.7 1.9 West Midlands 29,741 30.226 Devon 2.2 2.3 Yorkshire and the Humber 29,752 27,791 Dorset 2.9 2.8 Total 323,120 322,223 Durham 1.7 1.5 1 This information cannot be allocated to regions because of poor East Sussex 10.4 11.4 quality postcodes reported by operators in their quarterly returns. 563W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 564W

This data is derived from the hazardous waste (i) odour, (ii) water pollution, (iii) air pollution and management system and database which was introduced (iv) effect on human health in each year since 1997. in July 2005 to coincide with the introduction of the [286362] Hazardous Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2005. Dan Norris: Following is a table from the Environment The Environment Agency is unable to provide Agency (EA) showing the number of (a) complaints information for the period 1997 to 2004. Information made, (b) court cases brought, and (c) fines levied prior to this is held on an archived system which defined against landfill operators in each region for offences hazardous waste differently. Information is therefore related to (i) odour, (ii) water pollution and (iii) air not directly comparable with that held after 2005. pollution in each year since 2001. The data provided Landfill shows that from 2001 only as this is when the EA’s National Incident Recording System came on line. Interrogating systems which hold information prior to Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001 would incur disproportionate cost. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many (a) complaints were made, (b) prosecutions were The EA does not hold specific data relating to the brought and (c) fines were levied against landfill site effect of such offences on human health, but it is taken operators in each region for offences related to into account when determining the nature of the incident.

Number of incidents Total number Air pollution— Air pollution— Number of court related to landfills odour related not odour related Water pollution cases Total fines (£)

2001 Anglian 60 28 19 3 3 20,000 Midlands 71 48 14 5 3 3,000 North East 96 35 25 6 0 0 North West 762 332 378 9 2 13,000 Southern 75 42 26 7 6 38,000 South West 33 10 15 6 0 0 Thames 31 18 13 3 0 0 EA Wales 101 46 56 3 5 16,000

2002 Anglian 77 40 23 5 3 75,000 Midlands 124 51 27 10 1 1,250 North East 116 45 14 14 0 0 North West 445 369 82 10 3 31,000 Southern 75 50 16 4 1 8,500 South West 36 8 12 6 2 4,500 Thames 56 19 22 8 0 0 EA Wales 92 43 24 12 2 9,500

2003 Anglian 54 31 20 3 1 15,000 Midlands 104 57 28 5 5 12,500 North East 94 43 16 8 2 5,500 North West 155 93 45 6 3 12,000 Southern 58 45 20 5 1 6,000 South West 25 2 3 5 0 0 Thames 51 27 20 2 0 0 EA Wales 49 22 13 4 2 12,000

2004 Anglian 85 34 26 2 0 0 Midlands 103 40 42 10 5 42,000 North East 121 40 35 13 1 2,000 North West 109 64 47 4 2 20,000 Southern 62 45 9 2 1 30,000 South West 45 18 9 9 4 17,000 Thames 67 48 36 1 1 10,000 EA Wales 41 21 13 7 1 250 565W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 566W

Number of incidents Total number Air pollution— Air pollution— Number of court related to landfills odour related not odour related Water pollution cases Total fines (£)

2005 Anglian 76 44 20 3 0 0 Midlands 57 20 26 10 2 42,000 North East 93 46 32 4 3 2,000 North West 78 51 22 5 2 8,000 Southern 28 19 16 1 1 10,000 South West 22 15 6 1 0 0 Thames 42 32 27 3 0 0 EA Wales 50 25 16 11 3 12,500

2006 Anglian 73 47 20 4 2 47,500 Midlands 43 12 18 7 1 4,000 North East 41 13 9 3 4 28,800 North West 41 23 14 0 0 0 Southern 13 5 4 0 4 12,500 South West 45 15 8 9 1 35,000 Thames 37 13 6 7 1 0 EA Wales 53 29 16 9 3 6,000

2007 Anglian 60 32 13 8 11 41,000 Midlands 51 24 21 8 0 0 North East 72 28 25 5 3 22,000 North West 28 18 10 4 0 0 Southern 33 30 15 2 0 0 South West 63 37 31 4 3 42,000 Thames 36 18 14 5 9 38,249 EA Wales 84 52 44 6 2 15,500

2008 Anglian 51 32 8 4 2 13,000 Midlands 51 24 18 5 1 16,000 North East 117 73 46 8 4 4,000 North West 17 10 6 2 0 0 Southern 66 27 13 4 2 7,400 South West 41 34 17 4 5 92,875 Thames 39 31 12 3 1 20,000 EA Wales 153 131 67 5 0 0

Local Government Finance Dan Norris: The Government believe in giving local authorities greater flexibility to take decisions on local priorities. The introduction of the area based grant has Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for reduced ring-fencing, giving councils increased flexibility Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) which (a) to manage their budgets. Alongside this, the new local specific and (b) area-based grants are distributed to performance framework has provided a simplified and local authorities by each division of his Department; more effective structure for priority setting and performance [285047] measurement. (2) what recent estimate has been made of the annual The following specific revenue grants are being paid cost to (a) his Department of distributing each grant by this Department direct to local authorities in 2009-10: made by it to local authorities and (b) local authorities of administering each such grant; [285048] Policy area Grant (3) what (a) eligibility conditions and (b) compliance Waste Strategy London Waste and Recycling measures are in place in respect of the expenditure by Board Fund local authorities of each grant distributed by his Exotic Disease and Agency Animal Health and Welfare Relationship Portfolio Enforcement Department; and what recent estimate has been made Atmospheric Quality and Air Quality Monitoring of the annual cost to his Department of monitoring the Industrial Pollution Equipment compliance by local authorities with such measures in Soils Contaminated Land respect of each such grant. [285123] 567W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 568W

Policy area Grant Number

Water Flood and Coastal Erosion Risk (b) Botanists 3 Management (c) Lichenologists 1 Area based grant is paid by Communities and Local (d) Bryologists 1 Government on behalf of the Government as a whole, (e) Mycologists 2 in monthly instalments. Funding streams from this Department which are being paid through area based Origin Marking: Israel grant in 2009-10 are: Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Policy area Grant Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) with People and Landscapes Aggregates Levy Sustainability reference to the round table meeting on 31 March 2009 Fund with representatives from food retailers and trading Waste Strategy Waste Infrastructure Capital Grant organisations on food labelling, what steps his Department is taking in the preparation of voluntary The Department does not routinely estimate the costs guidance to supermarkets on country of origin of distributing grants each year, although it does consider labelling of produce from Israeli settlements; [287173] the cost effectiveness of proposals as part of the policy (2) pursuant to the answer from the Minister of development process. It also assesses whether there will State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office to the hon. be any new burdens on local authorities, and ensures Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak, of 8 July 2009, that these are fully funded when a policy is implemented. Official Report, column 856W, on Israel: imports, when As area based grants are not ring-fenced, they come he expects to announce the next step in public with no specific conditions or compliance requirements. consultation on the labelling of goods imported into Eligibility conditions and compliance measures vary the UK from Israeli settlements in the Palestinian with each specific revenue grant. territories. [287174]

Marine Management Organisation Jim Fitzpatrick: Following the meeting on 31 March, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for is currently working with other Departments including Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, HM Revenue oral answer of 23 June 2009, Official Report, and Customs, the Department for Business, Innovation column 700, what mechanisms exist for the and Skills and the Food Standards Agency with the independent Marine Management Organisation to intention to carrying out a public consultation on the report to Parliament. [287435] labelling of produce from the Occupied Palestinian Territories shortly. Huw Irranca-Davies: The Marine Management Organisation (MMO) is required to prepare an annual Rivers: Pollution report for each financial year detailing how it has discharged its functions. The MMO must send this report to the Secretary of State for the Department for Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs who must lay a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at what locations copy of it before Parliament. (a) acid and (b) other discharge from (i) mines, (ii) landfill sites, (iii) radioactive waste storage sites and The Secretary of State will be formally accountable (iv) animal burial mounds have been identified as to Parliament for the activities and performance of, and (A) exceeding permitted levels and (B) resulting in poor public money spent by, the MMO. He will be advised by river quality in nearby river courses in each year since a cross-government MMO sponsorship group which 1997; and what steps his Department takes when such will allow UK Government Departments’ interests to sites are identified. [286465] be represented without compromising the clear lines of responsibility and accountability. Huw Irranca-Davies: Details of locations where acid Natural England: Manpower and other discharge from mines, landfill sites, radioactive waste storage sites and animal burial mounds have been identified as exceeding permitted levels and resulting in Mr. Peter Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State poor river quality are as follows: for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many qualified (a) lepidopterists, (b) botanists, (c) lichenologists, (i) Working mines are subject to discharge controls under Water Resources Act consents or Environmental Permitting (d) bryologists and (e) mycologists are employed by Regulations permits issued and enforced by the Environment Natural England. [287177] Agency. Permits are set to ensure that, when complied with, relevant EU Directive standards are met. Where permits are not Huw Irranca-Davies: With the exception of botany, complied with it is for the Environment Agency to take appropriate there are no nationally-recognised qualifications in the action. fields covered by this question. Natural England employs Since 1994, over 100 discharges from abandoned coal the following numbers of nationally-recognised experts: mines to rivers have been assessed and prioritised by the environment agencies in England and Wales and Scotland. Number The Coal Authority has built some 50 minewater treatment plants which have cleaned up or protected more than (a) Lepidopterists 1 400 km of rivers and protected drinking water supply 569W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 570W aquifers. A prioritised programme to deal with remaining Small quantities of low level radioactive waste are pollution from abandoned coal mines is in place. disposed of to some landfill sites. The Environment Research commissioned recently by my Department Agency monitors groundwater and leachate from a and the Environment Agency has addressed the impacts number of landfill sites and its assessments of radiation of abandoned non-coal mines on watercourses. It identifies doses based on the monitoring results show that doses those posing the greatest risk to achievement of the to members of the public are much lower than the aims of the Water Framework Directive by assessment annual 1 mSv legal dose limit. These results are also of impacts on water quality, ecology, fish and groundwater. published in the RIFE report series. It is estimated that, out of a total of some 8,000 water The disposals of radioactive waste did not exceed bodies, 221 are impacted by non-coal minewater pollution permitted levels at the low level radioactive waste repository related primarily to high concentrations of metals in near Drigg or at landfill sites. Radioactive waste disposals discharges. As a first step, my Department is currently did not result in poor river water quality. commissioning research to identify the most cost-effective (iv) The Environment Agency is not aware of any significant passive treatment options from which to develop appropriate impact from animal burial mounds. The only significant burial of remedial measures within future river basin management animals occurred during the 2001 Foot and Mouth emergency planning cycles. This research will be published in due where there were 992 on-farm disposals of carcases in England and Wales. Due to the precautions taken at the time to identify course. suitable sites and the removal of material in some cases, very few Relevant annual data since 1997 is not held centrally residual risks were identified in the comprehensive review that and I will ask the Environment Agency to provide such was subsequently undertaken by DEFRA. Monitoring was found information as is readily available to be placed in the to be necessary at approximately 3 per cent. of the original burial Library of the House. sites. No unacceptable impact on the environment has been found. (ii) The regulation of landfills has changed significantly since 1997 when landfills were regulated by a waste management licence. Following the outbreak, DEFRA, in consultation Discharges of site drainage and treated leachate were controlled with the Environment Agency, commissioned an through a separate authorisation. Since the introduction of the independent review of each site using a Pollution Prevention and Control Act in 1999, permits have source>pathway>receptor staged approach. The controlled both the landfill and discharges to surface water at consultants concluded that none of the 992 sites posed operational sites. an unacceptable risk to the environment but recommended The Environment Agency records inspections carried that 32 of the sites be subject to ongoing water quality out at landfill and breaches of licence conditions. Since monitoring. Monitoring of these sites commenced in 2004 the Environment Agency has recorded data on 2003 and is ongoing. The results are made available to breaches of licence conditions on a national system. the Environment Agency on a quarterly basis. This Information prior to this is not held centrally. ongoing monitoring has identified that although there The following table summarises the number of landfill have been occasional exceedences of the precautionary non-compliances related to discharges to surface water, threshold levels at a number of sites, they are often for each Environment Agency region. one-off spikes and are not consistent. These exceedences are considered to reflect the fact that samples are obtained Region 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 200 9 Total from natural bodies of water in agricultural settings and reflect agricultural practice in the vicinity rather Anglian 230 401 73 15 13 6 738 than results from the carcase disposal. Midlands 156 173 72 13 21 15 450 Since 2001, DEFRA has retained and managed four North 286 362 147 53 19 1 868 animal burial sites. Of these sites, only one (Watchtree, East Cumbria) releases processed water into the watercourse. North 109983019181275 West This is treated water from the burial cells finished using reed-bed technologies which is subject to a managed South 62 33 29 13 19 — 156 West discharge consent issued by the Environment Agency. Southern 266 253 106 8 26 1 660 While there have been isolated instances of permitted Thames 49 121 108 6 5 9 298 levels being breached, these have almost been exclusively due to unseasonal rainfall which increases the suspended Wales 26 31 24 14 29 7 131 solids content, and none have resulted in poor river Total 1,184 1,472 589 141 150 40 3,576 quality being reported. The three remaining sites (Tow While the Environment Agency records details of the Law, Co Durham, Ridgeway Ground, Worcestershire type of breach, it is unable to provide a summary of the and Birkshaw Forest, Dumfries and Galloway) are closed breakdown of these incidents by substance. sites with water products been stored and tanked to an appropriate location for treatment. Ground water run-off (iii) Low level radioactive waste is disposed of at the Low Level surrounding the sites is also monitored with the results Waste Repository near Drigg in Cumbria. The Environment Agency and the Food Standards Agency monitor the environment shared with the Environment Agency, no recurring and food around this facility. Since 2002, the Environment Agency breaches have been reported and any isolated breaches has published its environmental monitoring results annually in have been actively resolved in conjunction with the the Radioactivity in Food and Environment (RIFE) Report series; appropriate regulatory agencies. prior to that the results were published in the Agency’s Radioactivity Roads in the Environment series of reports. Based on these monitoring results the Environment Agency assesses the radiation doses Mr. Todd: To ask the Secretary of State for received by members of the public. The radiation dose to members of the public living near the Low Level Waste Repository is much Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he last less than the annual 1 millisievert (mSv) legal dose limit. The reviewed the powers available for control of the use of results of these dose assessments are also published in the RIFE the public highway for the sale of motor vehicles. report series. [286953] 571W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 572W

Dan Norris: In 2005, DEFRA introduced further trees assessed was 8,184 and these included Sitka spruce, provisions within The Clean Neighbourhoods and Norway spruce, Scots pine, oak and beech. Environment Act to tackle nuisance parking. Specifically, The data is not readily available by region but the section 3 of Act makes it an offence for a person to total percentages are provided in the following table. place two or more vehicles for sale (for the purposes of a business) on roads where they are within 500 metres of Class Percentage of trees each other. The offence is not intended to target individual private sellers of single vehicles, rather the nuisance that Full crowns 26.1 is caused by the presence of numbers of vehicles being Slight defoliation 48.0 offered for sale by the same person or business. Any Moderate defoliation 23.9 person found guilty of such an offence can be fined up Severe defoliation 1.1 to £2,500. Dead 0.9

Rural Payments Agency: Freedom of Information A limited survey of the condition of two forest tree species (Scots pine and oak) was undertaken between Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for June and September of 2007. The total number of trees Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which requests assessed was 3,744. The data is not readily available by for information received by the Rural Payments region but the total percentages are provided in the Agency under the provisions of the Freedom of following table. Information Act 2000 in 2008 were (a) classified as not resolvable and (b) refused in full. [286134] Class Percentage of trees Full crowns 26.5 Jim Fitzpatrick: Most requests for information received Slight defoliation 47.5 by the Rural Payments Agency (RPA) are dealt with Moderate defoliation 23.8 under the provisions of the environmental information regulations (EIR). Figures provided include requests Severe defoliation 1.1 dealt with in 2008 by RPA under the EIR and Freedom Dead 1.1 of Information Act (FOI). Requests classified as not resolvable by RPA are those where information is not Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for held by RPA. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps (a) have been taken recently and (b) are planned to be FOI EIR taken to improve tree health. [286365] Requests not 812 resolvable Huw Irranca-Davies: The need to maintain, and improve Information 712where necessary, the health and vitality of trees remains withheld in full integral to the Governments’ approach to sustainable forest management. Squirrels Forest Research, the Research Agency of the Forestry Commission that is responsible for carrying out Mr. Atkinson: To ask the Secretary of State for investigations into and providing advice on tree health Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much issues, has recently been restructured to give greater Natural England has spent on red squirrel conservation emphasis to the impact of climate change on tree health. in the last five years. [286689] Its new Centre for Forestry and Climate Change researches the effects of environmental and climate change on Huw Irranca-Davies: From 2004-5 to 2008-9, Natural forestry, and how the sector can play its part in adaptation England and its founding bodies spent £94,300 on red and mitigation of climate change. The centre also develops squirrel conservation. In addition, a three-year rural entomology, pathology and environmental sciences in enterprise scheme grant of £148,000 was made by the order to deliver holistic understanding of climate change Rural Development Service in July 2006. Responsibility and forestry. for this scheme was transferred to the Regional Development Agencies on the establishment of Natural As well as investigating the potential impacts of England. climate change, research is ongoing into a number of pests and diseases of current concern. These include: Trees Red Band Needle Blight which can affect a wide range of pines and other conifers. Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Acute Oak Decline which is widespread and of complex cause, often involving recurrent drought, attack by root disease fungi Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion and episodes of insect defoliation or mildew attack. of trees in each region (a) had full crowns, (b) had slight defoliation, (c) had moderate defoliation, The horse chestnut leaf miner moth which causes browning and an autumnal appearance during the summer months and the (d) had severe defoliation and (e) were dead in the bacterium Pseudomonas syringae pv aesculi as the causal agent of latest survey conducted on behalf of his Department a serious, sometimes lethal, bleeding canker of horse chestnuts. into tree health. [286358] Oak processionary moth (Thaumetopoea processionea) for which the Forestry Commission initiated a contingency plan and is Huw Irranca-Davies: The last complete survey of working in partnership with officials from the affected London forest condition was conducted by the Forestry Commission boroughs and the Health Protection Agency, in an effort to between June and September 2006. The total number of eradicate the pest before it gains a firm foothold. 573W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 574W

Phytophthora ramorum and Phytophthora kernoviae for which Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for we have already announced a £25 million package which will Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many support a five-year programme to manage and contain the risks customers of each water supply company were on a of these two plant diseases. vulnerable groups tariff in each of the last three year. Looking to the future, the Forestry Commission has [286472] recently announced plans to develop a risk management strategy and action plan to respond to the increasing biotic threats to UK trees and forests. It is aiming to Huw Irranca-Davies: The number of customers on a have this in place later this year. vulnerable groups tariff in each of the last three years by water company is set out in the following table.

2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Waste Disposal Anglian and 904 3,385 3,068 Hartlepool Water Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Dwr Cymru 580 899 1,070 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what United Utilities 1,565 2,286 2,551 estimate he has made of the number of sanitary Northumbrian and 898 1,077 1,403 products have been disposed of by (a) landfill, (b) Essex and Suffolk incineration and (c) other means in the last year for Severn Trent 1,508 2,385 3,399 which figures are available; [286433] South West 3,857 5,837 6,782 Southern 280 197 641 (2) what estimate he has made of the number of Thames 2,053 2,333 2,747 disposable nappies have been disposed of by (a) Wessex 751 837 972 landfill, (b) incineration and (c) other means in the Yorkshire and York 1,663 2,090 2,702 last year for which figures are available. [286434] Bournemouth and 222 274 381 West Hampshire Dan Norris [holding answer 13 July 2009]: Data on Bristol 478 511 620 individual waste streams such as nappies or sanitary Cambridge 108 128 163 products is not routinely collected. However, a report of Dee Valley 36 73 83 an updated life cycle study on disposable and reusable Folkestone 106 176 270 nappies prepared for DEFRA by consultants ERM and Portsmouth 30 43 73 published in 2008 contained an assumption that 86 per South East Water 143 249 1156 cent. of disposable nappies were landfilled in 2005-06, (incl. Mid Kent) with the remainder going to energy from waste installations. South East Water 102 97 — (excl. Mid Kent Water) Mid Kent Water 41 152 — South Staffs 198 259 364 Water Charges Sutton and East 91 110 113 Surrey Tendring Hundred 425 468 533 Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Three Valleys 316 504 788 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he Industry 16,212 24,121 28,723 has made of the average proportion of income spent on 1 water charges by households in (a) the bottom decile, In 2008-09 Mid Kent merged with South East Water (b) the bottom 50 per cent. and (c) the highest decile for household income in (i) 1990, (ii) 2000 and (iii) 2008. [286302] Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he has made of average monthly cost to (a) metered and Huw Irranca-Davies: This information is held by the (b) unmetered consumers of (i) water supply and (ii) Office for National Statistics. The average percentage of sewerage services in each (A) water supply area and (B) income spent on water charges by households is provided region in 2007-08. [286470] in the following table. Water bills as a percentage of household disposable income1—United Kingdom Huw Irranca-Davies: Ofwat, the economic regulator Percentage of income for group names of the water and sewerage sector in England and Wales, Bottom decile Bottom 50 per Top decile group2 cent2 group2 does not hold data for the average metered and unmetered water and sewerage bills broken down by month and 2000-01 3.5 1.8 0.5 region. 2006-07 3.5 1.9 0.5 1 Unequivalised household disposable income. The following table sets out the average annual bills 2 Ranked by equivalised disposable income. for 2007-08 in 2009-10 prices. Information on 2009-10 water and sewerage bills is 2006-07 is the latest period for which estimates are available from the Ofwat website at: currently available. The next publication is scheduled for 29 July and will cover the period 2007-08. www.ofwat.gov.uk 575W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 576W

The average annual unmetered and metered, water and sewerage bills for 2007-08 (in 2009-10 prices) Combined total water Unmetered Metered Unmetered Metered Combined Combined and total water water sewerage sewerage unmeasured measured sewerage

Water and sewerage companies Anglian 204 149 247 188 451 336 381 Dwr Cymru 184 119 246 164 430 284 390 North West 171 151 200 177 371 327 361 Northumbrian (incl. Essex and Suffolk) Northumbrian 138 109 175 142 314 250 302 Essex and Suffolk 193 138 Severn Trent 157 135 148 143 305 278 297 South West 257 163 433 227 690 391 506 Southern 131 119 245 191 376 310 353 Thames 188 160 121 109 309 269 299 Wessex 217 163 214 174 431 337 395 Yorkshire (incl. York) 160 133 178 145 339 278 319

Water only companies Bournemouth and 161130————— West Hampshire Bristol 158 136 ————— Cambridge132116————— Dee Valley 141 102 ————— Folkestone and 223161————— Dover MidKent186133————— Portsmouth 91 82————— South East 191 142 ————— South Staffs 124 116 ————— Sutton and East 178144————— Surrey Tendring Hundred 214 152 ————— Three Valleys (incl. 168144————— North Surrey) Note: Figures may not total due to rounding

Water Supply assessment he has made of job prospects for graduates in the current economic downturn. [287052] Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the Mr. Lammy: These are undoubtedly tough times for answer of 6 July 2009, Official Report, column 532W, graduates but we should not forget that a degree remains on water meters, how many households receive water a strong investment. Businesses are continuing to recruit supplies from (a) Severn Trent Water and (b) South through the downturn, and the Government are committed Staffordshire Water. [285878] to helping graduates. Working with employers and universities, we are boosting the number of internships Huw Irranca-Davies: The following table shows the and offering more loans to support further study. So number of households that receive their water supplies graduates should remain positive. from Severn Trent Water and South Staffordshire Water.

Company Connected properties British National Space Centre

Severn Trent Water 3,167,600 Linda Gilroy: To ask the Minister of State, South Staffordshire Water 521,300 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Source: Ofwat—service and delivery report 2007-08. Supplementary information funding his Department has allocated to the British available from: National Space Centre for 2010-11; and if he will make www.ofwat.gov.uk a statement. [287070]

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr. Lammy: Provisional indicative planning assumptions Graduate Job Prospects are that in 2010-11 the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills will allocate to the British National Space Ms Dari Taylor: To ask the Minister of State, Centre £1.5 million in programme budget, and Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what £1.123 million in administration budget. 577W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 578W

Construction Industry 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

21. Tony Baldry: To ask the Minister of State, Unfitted returns 4,120 3,991 4,752 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what received steps he is taking to assist the construction industry Investigations 1,260 1,691 1,073 during the recession. [287072] Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department Ms Rosie Winterton: Government are offering the for Business, Innovation and Skills how many company real help that construction companies and workers need directors have been disqualified from the Insolvency now. Service following an investigation in each of the last We are ensuring that companies struggling to obtain three years; and what the average disqualification finance are supported through a package of support period was in each such year. [285774] including the Enterprise Finance Guarantee and the Working Capital scheme. Ian Lucas [holding answer 13 July 2009]: The Insolvency Service obtains disqualifications under sections 6 and 8 We are helping the industry ensure it has the right of the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 skills. For example by agreeing a Train to Gain compact (CDDA). Some disqualifications are obtained under which will make available £133 million over three years section 2 of the CDDA following criminal proceedings to meet the identified priority skills needs of the industry. that have resulted in directors being convicted of an And we are boosting demand by bringing forward indictable offence in connection with the promotion, £3 billion expenditure from 2010-11 to 2008-9 and formation, management, liquidation or striking off of a 2009-10. company.

Bankruptcy Directors disqualified 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 (a) Under section 6 Mr. Spring: To ask the Minister of State, Directors disqualified 1,149 1,066 1,204 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how Average period in years 5.5 5.9 6.3 many people in (a) England and (b) Suffolk aged 60 or more years have declared themselves bankrupt in (b) Under section 8 each year since 1997. [286264] Directors disqualified 26 28 23 Ian Lucas: The available information on the number Average period in years 6.5 6.2 6.3 of bankruptcies in England and in Suffolk, aged 60 or more years, may be seen in Table 1 as follows. Information (c) Under section 2 prior to 2000 is not available on this basis. Directors disqualified 51 79 48 Table 1: Bankrupts aged 60 and over1, 2 Average period in years n/k n/k 5.7 Location England Suffolk Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department 2000 802 12 for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the 2001 947 19 answer of 29 June 2009, Official Report, column 97W, 2002 1,154 26 on insolvency, what estimate he has made of the cost of 2003 1,464 26 regulating compliance with Statement of Insolvency 2004 1,915 23 Practice 16; and from which budget such costs will be met. [285850] 2005 2,898 51 2006 4,394 61 2007 4,911 69 Ian Lucas [holding answer 13 July 2009]: The cost of the Insolvency Service’s monitoring of Statement of 2008 5,189 89 Insolvency Practice (SIP) 16, relating to pre-packaged 1 Where the bankrupt has provided a valid date of birth (between 90-93 per cent. of cases over the period covered). administrations, has been estimated at £100,000 for the 2 Where the bankrupt has provided a valid postcode (increasing from current financial year. The monitoring is undertaken on 88 per cent. of cases in 2000 to 97 per cent. in 2008). a cost recovery basis, and will therefore be recovered from the recognised professional bodies that regulate Insolvency insolvency practitioners by way of levy. The cost of regulating insolvency practitioners’ Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department compliance with SIP 16 in terms of considering and for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the implementing appropriate regulatory and disciplinary answer of 29 June 2009, Official Report, column 97W, actions remains with the relevant recognised professional on insolvency, how many reports from insolvency bodies. practitioners alleging misconduct have been received by Internet: Censorship the Insolvency Service in each of the last three years; and how many such reports have been pursued to Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Minister of State, investigation stage. [285747] Department for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will restrict or prohibit the supply to Zimbabwe by UK Ian Lucas [holding answer 13 July 2009]: The information companies of technologies capable of use to monitor, is as follows: inspect or filter internet content. [285279] 579W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 580W

Ian Lucas: There are currently no plans to restrict First, Ministers were first informed about by the further or prohibit the supply to Zimbabwe by UK funding council about issues with audit of LMU’s data companies of technologies capable of use to monitor, in February 2008. inspect or filter internet content. The export of these Second, the funding council first raised concerns technologies would already be controlled if they employed with LMU about its 2005/06 data in April 2007. cryptography or were specially designed for military Third, LMU reported non-completions for each of use. European Union sanctions against Zimbabwe, outlined these years based on its own interpretation of the in Council Regulation (EC) No 314/2004, also allow funding council rules. Communications Intercept Devices to be controlled where they might be used for internal repression. Fourth, the funding council already has a number of processes in place to ensure the accuracy of the data In such cases, all export licence applications are rigorously institutions provide which inform their funding. It was assessed on a case-by-case basis against the Consolidated these processes that identified the problems at LMU. EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria and a licence would not be issued if to do so was inconsistent Fifth, it is for the funding council to account for the with the criteria. funds it distributes. It has itself decided to commission an independent report into its handling of the situation at LMU. It will report to its board in July and will be Jaguar Land Rover made public. In addition the National Audit Office will be undertaking a study of the financial health of the Richard Burden: To ask the Minister of State, HE sector later this year. It is likely to include LMU in Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what that study. As such I will not be commissioning a progress has been made in discussions between his separate investigation. Department and Jaguar Land Rover in respect of loan guarantees; and when he expects the discussions to be Skilled Workers completed. [284262] Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, Ian Lucas [holding answer 8 July 2009]: I refer my Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what hon. Friend to the answer I gave to the hon. Member recent assessment his Department has made of the for Mid-Worcestershire (Peter Luff) on 24 June 2009, level of skills shortage in each (a) industrial sector and Official Report, column 980W. (b) region. [284619]

London Metropolitan University Kevin Brennan: The National Employer Skills Survey 2007 report, published in May 2008, provides the most Mr. Rob Wilson: To ask the Minister of State, recent data available on the skills shortages in each Department for Business, Innovation and Skills sector and region. (1) when he was first informed of the inaccuracies (a) Table 1 shows the number and proportion of relating to student data and funding at London Skills Shortage Vacancies (SSVs) by Sector Skills Council Metropolitan University; [276990] sector (LSC, 2008: p.56): (2) on what date the Higher Education Funding Table 1 Council for England first raised concerns with London Percentage Metropolitan University about its non-completion of vacancies SSVs per rates data for the 2005-06 academic year; [276991] that are 1,000 Vacancies1 SSVs1 SSVs employees (3) what reasons representatives of the London Metropolitan University provided to the Higher Unweighted base 52,867 10,399 Education Funding Council for England for its return All England 619,675 130,000 21 6 of incorrect data on completion rates for the academic years (a) 2005-06, (b) 2006-07 and (c) 2007-08; Lantra 8,450 2,475 229 8 [276992] Cogent 6,650 1,400 21 4 (4) what recent procedures he has put in place to Proskills UK 3,975 950 24 33 ensure the accuracy of data on non-completion rates Improve Ltd. 5,300 550 310 32 provided by universities to the Higher Education Skillfast-UK 3,875 975 25 5 Funding Council for England; [276993] Semta 23,200 7,150 31 6 3 3 (5) if he will commission an independent Energy and 6,100 500 8 2 Utility Skills investigation into the recent submission of data on 2 2 non-completion rates by London Metropolitan ConstructionSkills 36,700 14,625 40 14 University to the Higher Education Funding Council SummitSkills 8,075 2,000 25 9 Automotive 11,200 2,975 27 6 for England. [276994] Skills Skillsmart Retail 52,675 7,250 14 33 Mr. Lammy: I will answer these questions on the People 1st 67,725 12,675 19 8 current situation at London Metropolitan university GoSkills 10,825 2,475 23 6 (LMU) together. In doing so it should be borne in mind Skills for 11,000 2,075 19 33 that responsibility for resolving these issues falls to the Logistics funding council and the university.Ministers are precluded Financial 30,450 4,725 16 5 in legislation from decisions on the funding of individual Services Skills institutions. In answer to the specific questions: Council 581W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 582W

Table 1 The most recent figures available are set out in the Percentage following table. This shows the percentage share of of vacancies SSVs per Government funding of net research and development that are 1,000 funding in each year from 1986-87 to 2005-06 which Vacancies1 SSVs1 SSVs employees was allocated to civil space. Asset Skills 24,725 5,125 21 6 Percentage share of Government funding of net R and D allocated to e-skills UK 22,650 6,275 28 10 civil space Government 9,750 1,475 15 4 Percentage Skills Skills for Justice 3,900 275 37 31 1986-87 2.8 Lifelong 19,500 2,625 313 33 1987-88 2.9 Learning UK 1988-89 3.2 Skills for Health 30,500 3,850 13 32 1989-90 3.0 Skills for Care 29,800 4,700 316 5 1990-91 3.0 and 1991-92 2.5 Development 1992-93 2.9 Skillset 7,075 2,900 241 223 1993-94 3.5 Creative and 7,325 1,650 23 8 1994-95 3.1 Cultural Skills 1995-96 2.7 SkillsActive 7,000 1,375 20 5 1996-97 2.8 Non-SSC 171,275 36,875 22 6 employers 1997-98 2.8 1 Denote base sizes of 25 to 49 and should be treated with caution. 1998-99 2.5 2 Indicates particularly high values 1999-2000 2.3 3 Indicates particularly low values. 2000-01 2.3 Notes: 2001-02 2.1 Figures rounded to the nearest 25. ‘*’ Used where the base size was less than 25. 2002-03 1.9 (b) Table 2 shows the number and proportion of 2003-04 2.0 Skills Shortage Vacancies (SSVs) per region (LSC, 2008: 2004-05 2.0 p.48): 2005-06 2.2 Table 2 Percentage of Students: Loans vacancies SSVs per that are 1,000 Vacancies1 SSVs1 SSVs employees David T.C. Davies: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how Unweighted base 10,399 many people have complained to the Student Loans Overall 619,675 130,000 21 6 Company (SLC) that money deducted by HM Revenue and Customs from their salaries for repayment of Region student loans has not been allocated to their accounts Eastern 64,225 12,475 19 5 with the SLC in each of the last three years; how long East Midlands 40,975 8,450 21 5 on average it took the SLC to reply to such complaints in each of those years; and if he will make a statement. London 126,875 32,850 26 8 [284610] North East 23,400 4,600 20 5 North West 75,225 13,000 17 4 Mr. Lammy [holding answer 7 July 2009]: I refer the South East 115,450 25,650 22 7 hon. Member to the answer I gave on 13 July 2009, South West 58,575 12,750 22 6 Official Report, column 201W. West Midlands 61,350 9,975 16 4 Yorkshire and 53,600 10,250 19 5 The Humber Tax Havens 1 Denote base sizes of 25 to 49 and should be treated with caution. Base: All employment Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Minister of State, Notes: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills if he Vacancy and SSV figures rounded to the nearest 25. will bring forward legislative proposals to prohibit Space Technology: Research directors of companies registered in the British Virgin Islands from becoming directors of UK companies. Adam Afriyie: To ask the Minister of State, [284650] Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of Government research and development Ian Lucas: I have no plans to do so. (R and D) funding was allocated to civil space R and D in each year since 1986. [284881] Written Questions: Government Responses

Mr. Lammy [holding answer 13 July 2009]: This Stewart Hosie: To ask the Minister of State, information is published in SET statistics and can be Department for Business, Innovation and Skills when found at he plans to answer question 280005, tabled on 10 June http://www.dius.gov.uk/science/science_funding/set_stats 2009, on the Capital for Enterprise Fund. [281285] 583W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 584W

Ms Rosie Winterton: I refer the hon. Member to the Scanning answer I gave on 13 July 2009, Official Report, column Photocopiers devices Fax machines 186W. 2009 2 4 17

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Departmental Information Officers

Departmental Contracts Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what the cost to his Lorely Burt: To ask the Secretary of State for Department of (a) press officers and (b) other press Culture, Media and Sport how many contracts let by office staff has been in each year since 1997. [283063] his Department were awarded to businesses with fewer than 50 employees in each of the last five years; and Mr. Sutcliffe: The cost of press officers is available what the monetary value of such contracts was in each only from 2002-03 and the cost of other press office such year. [287797] staff is available only from 2003-04. The information for earlier years could be provided only at disproportionate Mr. Sutcliffe: The Department for Culture Media cost. and Sport awarded the following number of contracts The costs were: to businesses with fewer than 50 members of staff with the following total monetary values: £ Other press office April to March Number of Press officers staff each year contracts Total spend (£) 2002-03 459,952 — 2006-07 120 3,589,211.10 2003-04 552,677 174,576 2007-08 93 1,999,166.68 2004-05 466,206 157,245 Notes: 2005-06 1550,124 110,864 1. Data for April 2004-March 2005 and April 2005-March 2006 are not held. 2006-07 1733,412 165,170 2. Data for April 2008-March 2009 will be available within the next 2007-08 1682,858 187,576 two months. 2008-09 1706,643 185,715 Departmental Databases 1 This includes press officers working on the Olympics

Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Digital Broadcasting Culture, Media and Sport what categories of personal information about members of the public are contained on each relevant database managed by his Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Department and its agencies; on what date each Culture, Media and Sport what recent estimate he has category of information began to be collected; and if made of the likely cost to the public purse of digital he will make a statement. [285984] switchover in (a) the Vale of York, (b) North Yorkshire and (c) England. [286061] Mr. Sutcliffe: Personal information about members of the public held in databases managed by my Department Mr. Simon: A total of £603 million for the Digital began to be collected when each one became operational. Switchover help scheme and £200 million for Digital I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave her on 14 UK’s marketing and communications were ring-fenced July 2009, Official Report, columns 245-46W. in the current TV licence fee agreement, which runs to Detailed explanation of all the fields in these databases March 2013. These figures cover the UK as a whole and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. have not been divided between nations, regions or individual constituencies. Departmental Electronic Equipment Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what the cost to the public Culture, Media and Sport how many (a) photocopiers, purse of digital switchover has been in (a) the Vale of (b) scanning devices and (c) fax machines, excluding Yo rk , (b) North Yorkshire and (c) England to date. multi-function devices, there are in his Department; [286063] how many there were in each of the last three years; and if he will make a statement. [286177] Mr. Simon: As detailed in the Help Scheme Agreement, the £603 million estimated cost of the help scheme will Mr. Sutcliffe: In each of the last three years the be divided into annual amounts for the purpose of Department has had the following equipment, excluding funding the scheme. The ITV Yorkshire region (covering multi-function devices. the Vale of York and North Yorkshire) does not switch until 2011, therefore to date there has been no spend in Scanning this region. It is not possible to estimate the total cost of Photocopiers devices Fax machines running the scheme to date in England since a large 2007 11 4 17 proportion of the costs are fixed costs that are associated with developing and running the scheme across the UK 2008 2 4 17 as a whole. 585W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 586W

There has been no regional cost incurred by Digital to radio services. The Digital Britain White Paper set UK activity in Yorkshire as this will commence in out our intention to deliver a Digital Radio Upgrade spring 2010. In England the cost to date of all Digital programme across the UK by the end of 2015, when we UK switchover communications and operations, which would expect all analogue services also carried on the excludes Wales, Northern Ireland, STV Central and national and local DAB multiplexes to cease broadcasting STV North is c£57 million. on analogue. The Digital Radio Upgrade will be implemented on a single date, which will be announced Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland at least two years in advance.

Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for for Culture, Media and Sport if he will take steps to Culture, Media and Sport what provision will be made bring the level of take-up of digital broadcasting in for radio reception by residential properties where Northern Ireland up to average levels in the rest of the digital radio signals cannot be received after the UK. [284161] discontinuance of analogue radio signals in (a) Powys, (b) Wales, (c) each region of England, (d) Scotland Mr. Simon [holding answer 3 July 2009]: As digital and (e) Northern Ireland. [287169] switchover in Northern Ireland in 2012 draws closer, Digital UK will run a communication programme in Mr. Simon: The Digital Britain White Paper made the area covered by the Ulster TV region about switchover clear our intention that the Digital Radio Upgrade and what people need to do to ensure that they can programme should not result in listeners losing access receive digital television services. to radio. We have also been clear that before the upgrade There are no steps envisaged to increase digital radio can begin DAB coverage must be comparable to the take-up specifically in Northern Ireland, or in any other existing FM coverage, particularly for the BBC’s services. part of the UK. However, as set out in the recently In the case of Wales, we are also examining closely the published Digital Britain White Paper, the Government impact of ceasing radio broadcasts on MW, which recognise that building out a Digital Audio Broadcasting many listeners in Wales rely upon. (DAB) infrastructure across the UK which meets the Therefore we are not, at this time, planning specific needs of broadcasters, multiplex operators and listeners, provisions to address residential properties in (a) Powys; including improving the quality of the signal, will require (b) Wales; (c) each region of England; (d) Scotland; additional investment. We will work closely with the and (e) Northern Ireland which are not able to receive BBC, transmission providers and Ofcom to agree a plan digital radio signals once services migrate to digital. for the extension and improvement for local DAB coverage, However, we will keep this under review. and where the cost would most appropriately fall. Digital Switchover Help Scheme Digital Broadcasting: Radio Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what recent estimate he has Culture, Media and Sport (1) what the extent of made of the number of people eligible for assistance coverage of digital radio in (a) Powys, (b) Wales and under the Digital Switchover Help Scheme in (a) the (c) each region will be after the analogue radio Vale of York, (b) North Yorkshire and (c) England; switch-off; [286371] and if he will make a statement. [285757] (2) when the analogue radio signal will be switched off in (a) Powys, (b) Wales and (c) each region. Mr. Simon: Those eligible for the help scheme can only be broken down by ITV regions. The Help Scheme [286372] estimates around 640,000 people in the ITV Yorkshire Mr. Simon [holding answer 13 July 2009]: Details of region will be eligible to receive help, although this the extent of digital radio coverage and when the Digital number is likely to change between now and when the Radio Upgrade will be implemented in (a) Powys, (b) region switches in 2011. It is estimated that around Wales and (c) each other UK region following the seven million people in the UK will be eligible to receive Digital Radio Upgrade programme are not currently help from the Switchover Help Scheme. available. Television: Licensing In the coming months we will be working with broadcasters and transmission providers to consider Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for how and when the coverage of DAB will be extended Culture, Media and Sport when it became a and improved. The intention is to give a clearer indication requirement to have a television licence to receive of future coverage in the spring 2010 review which was television signals on mobile telephones in the home; proposed in the Digital Britain White Paper. how many prosecutions there have been of people who However, we have been clear from the outset that have received signals on mobile telephones without a coverage of DAB needs to be at least comparable to licence; and if he will make a statement. [286187] current FM coverage before the Upgrade can begin. We are also aware that in Wales specific regard needs to be Mr. Simon: The legislation on TV licensing refers to made to those listeners that only have access to radio television receivers and does not refer specifically to via MW. mobile phones. No date has been set for the Digital Radio Upgrade Government do not hold figures on what particular programme. The top-level principle of the upgrade type of television receiver was being used in any particular programme is that it should not result in reduced access breach of the television licensing regulations. 587W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 588W

The interpretation of the TV licensing legislation, Mr. Kevan Jones: The main forum for discussions including an assessment of whether a mobile phone between the Ministry of Defence and Scottish Executive meets the definition of a television receiver under the health officials is the MOD/UK Health Departments legislation, is a matter for the BBC. Partnership Board, at which a range of issues of mutual interest are discussed. The board meets three times a year, with a core remit to ensure that the MOD and UK Health Departments share best practice and work together DEFENCE to improve the health and healthcare of the UK armed Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations forces, plus dependents and veterans, and such issues form the basis of its discussions. The Senior Medical Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Officer at the Scottish Executive is a standing member Defence when the armed forces rules of engagement in of the board and attends, or is represented at, its Afghanistan were last reviewed. [284852] meetings. In addition, there are three official level working Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The UK’s Rules of Engagement groups that take forward specific works strands identified are reviewed regularly to ensure that they remain effective by the Partnership Board, and which meet on average and compliant with international law. four times a year. Scottish Executive officials are members of each of these Working groups, and attend meetings Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State either in person or by video link. for Defence whether he plans to deploy in Afghanistan helicopters which are out of service for repair or Finally, numerous other official level discussions, both maintenance work on completion of that work. formal and informal, take place as required at both [287180] national and local level, to address the health needs of service personnel and their dependants across the entire Mr. Bob Ainsworth: On completion of repair or patient care pathway. maintenance work, helicopters are returned to the Forward Fleet where they are used for operational or training Departmental Lost Property purposes. Those aircraft which are equipped to Theatre Entry Mr. Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Standard are likely to be deployed to Operational Theatres how many laptop computers belonging to (a) his to allow other airframes to return to the UK to undergo Department and (b) its agencies have been lost or regular, programmed servicing and maintenance. stolen in the last five years. [281076] The remaining aircraft in the Forward Fleet are with Front Line Squadrons, primarily for training purposes. Mr. Kevan Jones: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 22 January 2009, Official Report, column Armed Forces 1669W, by my right hon. Friend the previous Minister of State for the Armed Forces (Mr. Ainsworth) to the Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer). Defence how many serving officers there are in each of Departmental Procurement the three services. [287198] Bill Rammell: As at 1 May 2009 the trained strength Lorely Burt: To ask the Secretary of State for of UK Regular Forces1 included 6,480 officers in the Defence what progress his Department has made in Naval Service, 13,800 in the Army and 8,420 in the implementing the recommendations of the Glover Royal Air Force. Report in its procurement processes. [287136] A full breakdown of the strength of UK Regular Forces by officer/other rank, training indicator and Mr. Quentin Davies: The MOD is working with other service can be found in Tri-Service Publication 1, which Government Departments toward the implementation is published on a monthly basis at the following link: of all 12 key recommendations of the Glover Report. http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/apps/ The MOD is participating fully in the Business Innovation publications/pubViewFile.php?content=32&date=2009-06- and Skills (BIS) and Office of Government Commerce 23&type=html&PublishTime=09:30:00 (OGC) led Glover Programme Board which oversees Due to ongoing validation of data from the Joint the implementation of the recommendations across Personnel Administration System, all strength statistics government. are provisional and subject to review. Departmental Property 1 UK Regular Forces excludes Gurkhas, Full Time Reserve personnel and mobilised reservists. Mr. Neil Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Health Services Defence how many (a) one, (b) two and (c) three or more bedroom properties are owned by or managed for Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department in inner London boroughs; and what Defence on how many occasions officials of his his most recent estimate is of the average annual net Department have met Scottish Executive health cost of managing properties in each category. [287190] officials in each year since 2007; and at how many such meetings (a) the care of soldiers and veterans and Mr. Kevan Jones: For accommodating single Service (b) the sharing of best practice between the Defence personnel, this Department owns some 1,586 Single Medical Services and NHS Scotland have been Living Accommodation (SLA) units in the inner London discussed. [282937] boroughs. 589W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 590W

For accommodating entitled Service families in the Royal Navy same area, the Department currently holds the following As at 1 July 2009 Required strength Actual strength number of Service Family Accommodation (SFA) Sea King Mk4/6 139 139 properties, the majority of which are leased from Annington Homes Ltd: Sea King Mk5 68 65 Sea King Mk7 46 43 Number of Number of Army Air Corps Property Type Bedrooms Properties As at 6 July 2009 Required strength Actual strength Officers Apache AH Mk1 100 80 1 4/5 6 Lynx Mk7/9 100 106 II 4/5 3 Gazelle Mk1 34 34 III 4 1 Dauphin N3 AH 76 IV 4 86 Mk1 V346Bell 212 24 24 Other Ranks SAAVN1 46 41 D 4 103 1 SAAVN figures cannot be split by aircraft type (AH/Squirrel/Lynx/ C 3 252 Gazelle). B 2 285 Royal Air Force A16As at 6 July 2009 Required strength Actual strength No separate estimate is made of the costs of living Chinook 262 222 accommodation broken down by location and type. Merlin Mk3/3a 159 130 In, cases where SFA or SLA is required but not Puma 127 129 available, substitute accommodation might be sourced Sea King Mk3/3a 140 132 from the commercial rental markets. The Department Defence Helicopter Flying School currently rents 1,245 Substitute Single Service As at 6 July 2009 Required strength Actual strength Accommodation and 41 Substitute SFA properties in the inner London boroughs at an approximate monthly Squirrel 20 18 cost of £1.47 million. Griffin 62 61

Military Aircraft Required and actual strengths will both vary with time due to many factors including operational Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence requirements, the introduction of newly trained crew on what estimate he has made of the cost of the future completion of training courses at set times during the aircraft carrier programme in each of the next five year, the number of trained personnel assigned to non-flying years. [284532] duties (as part of the necessary broader career development), injuries, and service leavers. Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the In addition, the RAF is going through a high level of answer I gave him on 20 November 2008, Official change with aircrafts drawing down, going through Report, column 667W. structure change, forming new squadrons or bringing Following the equipment examination (EE) we decided new aircraft into service. Therefore, crew figures are to delay the carriers by one to two years, recognising fluctuating on a daily basis. that this would add cost. The new cost will be at least The helicopter fleet is managed to ensure that our £4.6 billion but we are not yet able to provide a final operational and other commitments are met, including estimate. an 84 per cent. increase in flying hours in Afghanistan We do not release annual funding profiles as these are between November 2006 and April 2009. planning assumptions that are inevitably subject to a significant amount of variation, and their availability Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for could also prejudice commercial interests. Defence what the (a) required and (b) actual number of pilots in the armed forces is for the Sea King Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence HAR3/3A helicopters. [284780] what the (a) required and (b) actual crew number for each helicopter type was in each of the last five years. Bill Rammell: The required and actual number of [284543] pilots in the armed forces for the Sea King HAR3/3A helicopters is given in the following table: Bill Rammell: Historical figures for helicopter crew Aircraft type: Sea King HAR3/3A numbers are not held in the format requested. The Number numbers of aircrew personnel for each helicopter type are provided in the following tables. Required pilots 66 Actual pilots 64 Royal Navy As at 1 July 2009 Required strength Actual strength A difference between the ‘required’ and ‘actual’ number Lynx Mk3/8 133 124 of pilots is to be expected. The variation is due to a Lynx Mk7/9 20 20 number of factors such as promotion, assignment to Merlin Mk1 189 174 other aircraft or ground posts, medical downgrading and leaving the service. 591W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 592W

Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Department’s work. The Department has regular and Defence what assessment has been made of the merits wide-ranging discussions with organisations and power of deploying single propeller-driven aircraft in theatre companies about carbon capture and storage, including for ground attack and surveillance. [286440] those with power stations based in Scotland.

Bill Rammell: Commanders on the ground already Coal Investment Aid have access to a broad range of surveillance and ground attack capabilities and, while we keep our requirements Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for under constant review, there are currently no plans to Energy and Climate Change how much Coal deploy manned, single propeller-driven aircraft for ground Investment Aid has been paid out in each attack or surveillance. We have though deployed the parliamentary constituency. [285090] unmanned single propeller aircraft, UK Reaper and Hermes 450, in surveillance roles, with UK Reaper also Mr. Kidney: A total of £52.8 million of Coal Investment providing a ground attack capability. Aid was paid to 12 mines during 2003-04 to 2008-09. Payments by constituency were as follows:

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Constituency Mine Operator CIA paid (£) Board of the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority Bassetlaw Harworth1 UK Coal plc 4,201,556 Welbeck UK Coal plc 7,785,898 Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Berwick upon Ellington1 UK Coal plc 849,620 and Climate Change how the performance of the Tweed Cynon Valley Tower2 Goitre Tower 2,991,764 Board of the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority in Anthracite Ltd meeting its first priority to consumers is measured. NE Derbyshire Eckington Eckington 176,171 [286256] Colliery Partnership Mr. Kidney: The Gas and Electricity Markets Authority Don Valley Rossington1 UK Coal plc 2,687,075 (the authority) and its executive arm, Ofgem, have a Neath Aberpergwm Energybuild 3,501,977 primary duty to protect the interests of existing and Mining Ltd future consumers. Pontefract Kellingley UK Coal plc 9,500,653 The authority is an independent economic regulator Rother Valley Maltby3 UK Coal plc 5,148,254 and is accountable to Parliament rather than to the Sherwood Thoresby UK Coal plc 4,973,282 Government. The Government nonetheless works closely Wakefield Hay Royds Hay Royds 137,300 with the authority and Ofgem in order to assess the Colliery LLP operation of the market and outcomes for consumers, Warwickshire Daw Mill UK Coal plc 10,863,398 while respecting the regulator’s independence. North 1 Mine closed or mothballed before total awarded was drawn down in Carbon Sequestration full. 2 Mine closed owing to exhaustion of viable reserves in 2008. 3 Mine sold to present operator after CIA drawn down in full under Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for UKC. Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the statement on 23 April 2009, Official Report, columns 382-84, on Committee on Climate Change coal carbon capture and storage, whether any recent changes have been made to his Department’s policy for Mr. Malins: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy the phased scaling of carbon capture and storage and Climate Change what remuneration his demonstration plants. [283180] Department provides for the (a) Chair and (b) Chief Executive of the Committee on Climate Change; what Mr. Kidney: The detailed terms of the competition the contracted hours of work of the Chairman are; and are not yet finalised. The overarching objectives of the if he will make a statement. [284494] CCS demonstration competition remain as stated in the Project Information Memorandum. A copy can be found Joan Ruddock [holding answer 6 July 2009]: The at chair of the Committee on Climate Change involves an http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/ average time commitment of approximately four days uk_supply/energymix/ccs/CCS_demonstrat/ per month with a payment of £1,000 a day. CCS_demonstrat.aspx The chief executive’s current salary is £85,000 plus a Carbon Sequestration: Scotland bonus of between 10-20 per cent. of salary subject to performance targets being exceeded. Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what discussions his Departmental Accountancy Department has had with Scottish energy companies on carbon capture and storage at power stations in Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Scotland. [285957] and Climate Change when he expects to publish his Department’s resource accounts for 2008-09. [287336] Mr. Kidney Energy companies are key stakeholders of the Department of Energy and Climate Change and Joan Ruddock: DECC expects to publish the 2008-09 have an active interest in almost every aspect of the resource accounts on 20 July 2009. 593W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 594W

Departmental Data Protection Departmental Press

Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State Energy and Climate Change what databases which will for Energy and Climate Change what (a) newspapers be managed by his Department or its agency and which and (b) periodicals are delivered to the private office of will contain personal information are (a) under each Minister in his Department; and at what cost in construction and (b) expected to become operational the latest period for which figures are available. in each of the next five years; and if he will make a [279417] statement. [286501] Joan Ruddock: The private office group within the Joan Ruddock: No such databases are under construction Department receives copies of The Financial Times, or expected to become operational within the next five Observer, Guardian, Independent, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, years. The Sun, The Times, Daily Telegraph, Evening Standard, Economist, Spectator and New Statesman. The costs of the newspapers are met by the communications group Departmental Databases as part of a central contract.

Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy EC Law and Climate Change what information databases his Department (a) maintain and (b) uses which contain Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy personal information. [284397] and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the proportion of statutory obligations provided for by Joan Ruddock: The Department holds a large number legislation on matters for which his Department is of databases ranging in size. These include corporate responsible which were introduced as a consequence of databases, access databases held by units within the obligations arising from EU legislation in the latest Department and a large number of spreadsheets of period for which figures are available. [281866] data of which certainly the larger and more sophisticated could be described as fulfilling a database function. The Mr. Kidney: It is very difficult to provide precise vast majority of these databases and systems can be figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems expected to a greater or lesser extent to contain personal from the European Union. data. It is not possible due to disproportionate costs to The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried identify those databases which do not contain personal out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of data. administrative burdens stemming from the EU at approximately one-third of the total administrative burden. Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for The important issue is not the origins of legislation, Energy and Climate Change what categories of which could of course be a devolved Administration or personal information about members of the public are a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, contained on each relevant database managed by his but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective Department and its agencies; on what date each of their origins, should comply with the principles of category of information began to be collected; and if better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, he will make a statement. [285985] proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The Joan Ruddock: The Department for Energy and Climate Government continue to work with European partners Change has registered all the purposes for which it to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. processes personal data in form of a notification which is held by the Information Commissioner’s Office, and Energy is publicly available on the Data Protection Registry. The notification contains categories of data subject for Mr. Waterson: To ask the Secretary of State for each registered purpose; recipients to whom DECC Energy and Climate Change what steps his intends to disclose the data and name or a description Department is taking to encourage the development of of any countries or territories outside the European products and services designed to meet the energy economic area to which DECC transfers or intends to needs of older people. [284644] transfer the data. Mr. Kidney: The Department has negotiated a voluntary Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for agreement with energy companies under which they will Energy and Climate Change what categories of contribute £125 million this year and £150 million in personal information on members of the public will be 2010-11 to measures designed to address the energy held on each database expected to become operational needs of vulnerable consumers including the elderly. in the next five years and which will be managed by his Energy companies must meet at least 40 per cent. of Department; what estimate he has made of the likely their carbon emissions reduction target obligations in a number of individuals’ details each such database will priority group of low-income consumers who are in hold when fully operational; and if he will make a receipt of benefits or are aged 70 and over. The DECC statement. [286138] funded warm front scheme offers energy efficiency measures to householders, including those over 60, in receipt of Joan Ruddock: DECC has no such databases under qualifying benefits. In addition, the Department is construction or expected to become operational within developing its approach to the roll-out of smart metering, the next five years. which will take into account its impact on the elderly. 595W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 596W

Energy Supply Mr. Kidney: To provide an exact count of all items of correspondence or other communications received by Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Ministers in the last 17 months referring to information and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 30 June for energy consumers and/or tariffs could be provided 2009, Official Report, column 122W, on energy supply, only at disproportionate cost, since that information is on what dates since October 2008 Ministers in his not held centrally. Department have met representatives of (a) Ofgem, DECC believes that it is vital that consumers have (b) energy suppliers and (c) energy consumer groups. access to the best possible information on bills and [286186] tariffs. The detailed provisions relating to energy bills and tariffs are a matter for the independent regulator Mr. Kidney: Ministers and civil servants meet many Ofgem who has consulted widely on new measures to people as part of the process of policy development and improve the clarity and nature of billing and tariff advice. It is not the normal practice of Government to information available to consumers. Ofgem is currently make public details of such meetings. considering consultation responses and working with Which Energy: Conservation consumer bodies including and Consumer Focus and with other organisations to develop new rules. Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Waterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what steps his Energy and Climate Change if he will discuss with Department plans to take to encourage use of energy supply companies the development of green energy-efficient circulator pumps in (a) domestic and energy tariffs designed to meet the needs of older (b) non-domestic properties. [285064] people. [284125] Joan Ruddock: Two energy-efficient circulator models are supported through the Government’s flagship household Mr. Kidney: Ministers discuss with energy suppliers energy efficiency policy, the Carbon Emissions Reduction various measures to support renewable energy and energy Target. efficiency. Ministers are open to representations about how best to meet the needs of different groups of Energy efficiency measures for households are also consumers. supported by a reduced rate of VAT for the professional installation of certain energy saving products, including Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy “hot water system controls” and “central heating system and Climate Change what recent assessment he has controls”. Where circulator pumps fall within this made of trends in domestic energy prices; and if he will description they will be eligible for the reduced rate. make a statement. [285570] Energy: Meters Mr. Kidney: Global energy demand and wholesale Mr. Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy prices have fallen since peaks last year. It is essential and Climate Change what further steps he plans to take that falls in wholesale costs reach consumers. This is to ensure that households with pre-payment meters are why we asked Ofgem to provide quarterly reports on not charged more for energy than households without price movements. such meters. [286757] Ofgem’s most recent report found that margins are around historic levels, and falls in costs appear to be Mr. Kidney [holding answer 14 July 2009]: The being passed on to consumers. We expect suppliers to Government believe that differences in charges relating continue to pass on any sustained falls in wholesale to the method of payment should reflect the costs of costs. servicing that method, and should not discriminate unfairly against any group of customers. Therefore, we EU Laws strongly support the regulator Ofgem’s work putting in place rules to ensure that prices paid by consumers are Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy cost reflective. and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department of the statutory obligations Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for upon it provided for in legislation introduced as a Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions he consequence of obligations arising from EU legislation has had with Ofcom on the communication data from in the most recent 12 months for which figures are smart meters. [286861] available. [283477]

Mr. Kidney: My officials have had discussions with Mr. Kidney: It is very difficult to provide precise Ofcom officials about the roll out of smart meters in figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems Great Britain and will continue to do so during the from the European Union. preparation for roll out. The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried Energy: Prices out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of administrative burdens stemming from the EU at Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy approximately one-third of the total administrative burden. and Climate Change how many representations he has The important issue is not the origins of legislation, received on the clarity of information on energy bills which could of course be a devolved Administration or and tariffs since the Ofgem Energy Supply Probe was a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, launched in February 2008. [283276] but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective 597W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 598W of their origins, should comply with the principles of loss (NIHL) that have not been settled in full and final better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, payment and those where no interim payment has been proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their made as at 5 July 2009 is shown in the following table. objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The Government continue to work with European partners Total claims—number to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. Total claims of interim payment Scheme outstanding made Garages and Petrol Stations VWF 117 68 COPD 423 242 Mr. Binley: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy NIHL 851 852 and Climate Change (1) how many petrol stations in each parliamentary constituency in England have Influenza: Contingency Planning closed down in each of the last five years; [286571] (2) how many petrol stations there are in each Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for parliamentary constituency in England. [286572] Energy and Climate Change how many officials in his Department at each payband are working on Mr. Kidney: The Department does not hold statistics contingency arrangements in the energy industry for on petrol stations by parliamentary constituency. pandemic flu. [286863]

Industrial Diseases Mr. Kidney: Currently there are 14 officials working in part on contingency arrangements for pandemic flu broken down as follows: John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many legal actions have been 1 x SCS initiated against his Department in respect of claims 1 x Grade 6 for (a) vibration white finger and (b) chronic 4 x Grade 7s obstructive pulmonary disease in each of the last two 4 x SEOs years. [286845] 1 x HEO 3 x EOs. Mr. Kidney: There have been 20 vibration white finger Our response arrangements are kept under review. and three chronic obstructive pulmonary disease claims litigated against the Department in the last two years. Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what discussions Ministers Industrial Diseases: Compensation in his Department have had with (a) National Grid, (b) energy supply companies and (c) electricity generators John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy on contingency planning for pandemic flu since 1 January and Climate Change how many payments in respect of 2009. [286864] claims for industrial deafness benefits were made to former mineworkers by his Department in (a) 2008 Mr. Kidney: DECC officials have been working closely and (b) 2009. [286876] with National Grid, energy companies and electricity generators through the Energy Emergencies Executive Mr. Kidney: The Department does not manage any Committee (E3C) on contingency arrangements for a industrial deafness benefits. pandemic influenza. Ministers are updated regularly and work is continuing to ensure the energy sector is However, the following table shows the total number well prepared should there be any impact on energy of personal injury claims settled by payment and the supplies. DECC Ministers have been advised by National total damages awarded for Noise Induced Hearing Loss Grid that robust contingency arrangements are in place scheme (NIHL) during 2008 and 2009 as at 30 June to maintain energy supplies during a flu pandemic. 2009. Currently, energy supplies are being delivered normally. Total claims settled Total damages paid Along with other Government Departments, DECC (£) Ministers and officials have also been in attendance at 2008 752 248,459 the weekly meetings of the Civil Contingencies Committee, 2009 395 225,814 held at COBR, which decides the overall Government response strategy to the pandemic.

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for and Climate Change how many claims made by Energy and Climate Change whether Ministers in UDM-Vendside for compensation for (a) vibration his Department plan to meet (a) the National Grid, white finger, (b) chronic obstructive pulmonary (b) energy supply companies and (c) electricity disease and (c) hearing loss have not been settled (i) in generators to discuss contingency arrangements for full and (ii) in part. [286902] pandemic influenza in the next three months. [286865]

Mr. Kidney [holding answer 14 July 2009]: The number Mr. Kidney: Ministers meet regularly with National of claims made by UDM-Vendside under the vibration Grid, energy companies, and electricity generators to white finger (VWF), chronic obstructive pulmonary discuss a wide range of factors that could impact of disease (COPD) schemes and noise induced hearing energy supplies, including the risks to energy supplies of 599W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 600W pandemic flu. I plan to meet shortly with National Grid Mr. Kidney: To ensure adequacy of funding for the and one of the issues for discussion will be contingency Low Carbon Buildings Programme in advance of the arrangements for pandemic flu. Regular updates on the introduction of feed-in tariffs and a renewable heat pandemic flu outbreak are provided to the energy sector incentive, the Government recently committed a further by DECC officials, and through Business Link, Directgov, £45 million bringing total support to over £130 million. Department of Health and NHS websites. Of the £45 million additional funding £10 million has been allocated to Phase 1 and £35 million to Phase 2. Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for To date, Phase 1 has committed £9.2 million. Phase 2 Energy and Climate Change what steps his Department has committed £49.8 million. The Low Carbon Buildings has taken to acquire stocks of (a) influenza vaccine Programme will be superseded by feed-in tariffs in 2010 and (b) anti-viral medicine; and if he will make a and renewable heat incentives in 2011. statement. [286866] Low Carbon Loans Joan Ruddock: The Department has taken no steps to acquire stocks of anti-viral medicine or influenza vaccines. Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how much new funding International Renewable Energy Agency: Location for low-carbon loans announced in Budget 2009 will be provided through the Carbon Trust in (a) 2009-10, Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) 2010-11 and (c) subsequent years. [285097] Energy and Climate Change whether a decision has been made on the location of the headquarters of the Mr. Kidney: Budget 2009 announced £100 million for International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA); for loans to help small and medium sized businesses install which location the UK voted in the Preparatory energy saving measure. Of this, up to £83.9 million is Commission for IRENA; and how much funding his available in England through the Carbon Trust. This Department has allocated for UK participation in comprises up to £67.1 million in 2009-10 and up to IRENA. [286849] £16.8 million in 2010-11. This funding operates for two financial years only. The trust’s existing loan scheme Mr. Kidney: The Second Preparatory Commission will continue to provide funding for loans in future meeting in Egypt on 29-30 June decided by consensus, years. rather than a vote, that the interim headquarters for the Budget 2009 also provided £65 million for loans to International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) would install energy efficiency measures in public sector be based in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates organisations. Of this, up to £54.5 million is available in (UAE). This was fully supported by the UK. The final England in 2009-10 through Salix Finance, a subsidiary budget for IRENA remains to be decided but the indicative of the Carbon Trust. allocation for the UK for 2010 is $1.39 million. For both schemes the remainder of the funds announced Lighting goes to the devolved Administrations. Members: Correspondence Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what his most recent Mr. Salmond: To ask the Secretary of State for estimate is of the number of (a) households, Energy and Climate Change when he plans to reply to (b) businesses and (c) hospitals which use energy- the letter of 10 June 2009 from the right hon. Member efficient light bulbs. [285385] for Banff and Buchan on his constituent Mr. Thomson. [287385] Joan Ruddock [holding answer 9 July 2009]: The information is as follows: Joan Ruddock: My noble Friend the Minister of State (a) Under the Government’s household carbon saving obligation for Energy and Climate Change responded to the right on energy suppliers since 2002, currently known as the carbon hon. Member on 13 July, 2009. emissions reduction target, energy suppliers have distributed or sold with subsidy via retail outlets some 290 million high efficiency Miners: Compensation bulbs to GB households. In principle this would allow all GB households to benefit. (b) The Department does not hold information on the number John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy of businesses using energy-efficient light bulbs. and Climate Change how many personal addresses of (c) Neither my Department nor the Department of Health former mineworkers his Department and its predecessors holds information on the number of hospitals using energy-efficient have supplied to the Legal Complaints Service to assist light bulbs. them in reclaiming fees wrongly charged by solicitors and claims handlers. [286882] Low Carbon Buildings Programme: Finance Mr. Kidney: The Department provided 3,651 living Alan Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for claimant addresses from the Rother Valley constituency Energy and Climate Change what recent assessment he to the Legal Complaints Service (LCS) in July 2007, has made of the adequacy of the funding provided for following which each individual claimant was written to phases one and two of the low carbon buildings and invited to attend an information session headed by programme in advance of receipts from (a) feed-in my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley tariffs and (b) a renewable heat incentive under the (Mr. Barron). provisions of the Energy Act 2008. [286729] There have been no further requests to date. 601W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 602W

Nuclear Power Stations: Construction breaches of exclusion zones around nuclear facilities by airborne craft have been filed by operators of civil Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for nuclear installations in each year since 2003; and if he Energy and Climate Change when he expects the first will place in the Library a copy of each such report. of the new nuclear power stations to be producing [281297] energy for the National Grid. [287010] Mr. Kidney: Government remain committed to enabling new nuclear build as soon as possible. The indicative Paul Clark: I have been asked to reply. timeline we published in January 2009, set out that we expect the first new nuclear power station to become Since 2003, the Civil Aviation Authority’s (CAA) operational in 2018, or sooner if possible. aviation regulation enforcement department have Nuclear Power Stations: Security investigated 12 reports of alleged breaches of the Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying)(Nuclear Installations) Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Regulations 2002. These reports are summarised in the Energy and Climate Change how many reports of following table:

Offence Location Legislation reference Description Outcome Closed

23 April 2004 AWE Aldermaston AN (Restriction of Hot air balloon No further action. 11 June 2004 Flying) (Nuclear flying in the no evidence of any Installations), restricted area of offence Regulations 2002 AWE Aldermaston nuclear installation 23 April 2004 AWE Aldermaston AN (Restriction of Hot air balloon The pilot has been 5 August 2004 Flying) (Nuclear flying in the given a formal Installations), restricted area of caution Regulations 2002 AWE Aldermaston nuclear installation 25 April 2004 Berkeley power AN (Restriction of Hot air balloon No further action. 25 May 2004 station Flying) (Nuclear passed over nuclear no evidence Installations), licensed site Regulation 2002 approximately 1500 ft. within the two mile exclusion zone 7 May 2004 Bradwell power AN (Restriction of Aircraft allegedly The pilot has been 14 July 2004 station Flying) (Nuclear flew approximately sent a warning Installations), 500 ft. of a nuclear letter Regulation 2002 installation and well within the two mile exclusion zone performing aerobatics 31 July 2004 Heysham nuclear Article 85, ANO Helicopter landed Lancaster 8 April 2005 power station 2000 in the restricted magistrates court 8 zone of Heysham April 2005. Pilot nuclear power pleaded guilty to a station breach of Article 85, ANO 2000. He was fined £750 and ordered to pay costs of £500 13 October 2004 Berkeley and AN (Restriction of Infringement of a The pilot has been 21 January 2005 Oldbury power Flying) Regulations restricted area over sent an advisory stations 2002 a nuclear letter installation 1 October 2004 Bradwell power AN (Restriction of Infringement of a Insufficient 25 November 2004 station Flying) Regulations restricted area over evidence to proceed 2002 a nuclear installation 21 November 2004 Chapel Cross AN (Restriction of Infringement of The pilot has been 26 April 2005 nuclear power Flying) (Nuclear nuclear site sent a warning station Installations) letter Regulations 2002 29 January 2006 AWE Aldermaston AN (Restriction of Lowflyingovera No further action. 14 March 2006 Flying) (Nuclear nuclear no witnesses came Installations) establishment forward. Regulations 2002 17 July 2006 AWE Burghfield AN (Restrictions of Lowflyingovera Insufficient 6 October 2006 Flying) (Nuclear nuclear evidence to proceed Installations) establishment Regulations 2002 603W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 604W

Offence Location Legislation reference Description Outcome Closed

21 September 2007 Springfields, nr. AN (Restriction of Lowflyingovera Insufficient 11 March 2008 Preston Flying) (Nuclear nuclear evidence to proceed Installations) Regs. establishment 2002 5 October 2007 Dungeness power AN (Restriction of Infringement and The pilot has been 31 October 2007 station, Kent Flying) (Nuclear low flying over a sent a warning Installations) Regs. nuclear letter 2002 establishment

Nuclear Power: Job Creation cent. of the fund’s assets are invested in deposits in public sector accounts but there is also a portfolio of John Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for equities and property. The most recent estimate of the Energy and Climate Change if he will discuss with the value of the fund’s assets, as at 31 March 2009, is energy industry the employment opportunities for £8.276 million. British workers arising from any programme to build new nuclear power stations; and if he will make a Public Expenditure statement. [287065] Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Mr. Kidney: There are already 44,000 workers employed made of the likely effect of the (a) £100 million in the civil nuclear industry in the UK. New nuclear in capital funding brought forward to 2009-10 and build in the UK has the potential to require thousands (b) £50 million of capital spending brought forward of workers and Government are working to ensure that from 2010-11 to 2008-09 on the number of homes in the contribution of UK workers to nuclear new build which energy efficient and heating measures will be projects is maximised. The UK Low Carbon Transition installed under the Warm Front programme; and how Plan and Low Carbon Industrial Strategy published much of the funding has been spent in each month yesterday (15 July) explains this in more detail. since it was announced. [286649] We are already taking action to make sure that Britain will have the skills base to make the most of these Mr. Kidney: On 11 September 2008, the Government opportunities. Specifically we are improving science announced an increase to Warm Front funding of provision in schools, have charged the Sector Skills £74 million (2008-09: £50 million and 2009-10: £24 million). Council with taking forward a training strategy, and Funding for the scheme increased further on 24 November have helped set up the National Skills Academy for 2008 through the pre-Budget report process with an Nuclear to improve the supply of specialist skills at all additional £50 million for years 2008-09 and 2009-10. levels. In addition, the Department for Business Innovation As part of the pre-Budget report, Warm Front spend and Skills (BIS) is conducting a review of productivity was re-profiled to bring forward £50 million from 2010-11 and skills in the engineering construction sector which to 2009-10. will establish whether there is anything more Government The following table details a breakdown of the monthly or industry can do to ensure British firms and workers spend for this additional funding and the number of are fully equipped to fill vital jobs in nuclear new build households assisted. and other large scale engineering construction. DECC Ministers have regular discussions with the Number of energy industry about skills development issues relating households to new nuclear build. In addition the Office for Nuclear Spend (£000) assisted Development (OND) in DECC has fostered links with Pre-Budget report 2008-09 all of the various skills bodies, other Government (£50 million) Departments, academia and industry involved in the December 2008 10,119 3,362 nuclear sector to ensure that all are working towards the January 2009 9,847 4,850 same goals of ensuring enough skilled people to build a February 2009 14,234 4,804 new generation of nuclear power stations. March 2009 15,800 21,674 There is close working between DECC and BIS on Total 50,000 34,690 these issues. Pre-Budget Report 2009-10 Nuclear Trust: Finance (£50 million) + £50 million brought forward from 2010-11 Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for April 2009 43,273 17,690 Energy and Climate Change what assets are held by the May 2009 56,044 19,982 Nuclear Trust; and what his most recent estimate is of June 2009 — — their monetary value. [285091] Total 99,317 37,672 Mr. Kidney: The Nuclear Trust owns the Nuclear Liabilities Fund which is responsible for meeting the Home Energy Savings Programme 2008-09 decommissioning cost of British Energy’s existing nuclear (£50 million) power stations, together with defuelling costs and certain October 2008 9,806 8,138 British Energy uncontracted liabilities. Some 90 per 605W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 606W

hon. Friend will be aware, we do not discuss the details Number of households of legal pleadings in cases to which we are a party while Spend (£000) assisted they are in the process of formulation. It would be inappropriate, therefore, to discuss the Government’s November 2008 9,514 8,138 response in advance. December 2008 14,584 8,153 January 2009 10,855 7,893 Departmental Data Protection February 2009 4,953 — March 2009 288 — Total 50,000 32,322 Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what databases Home Energy Savings which will be managed by his Department or one of its Programme 2009-10 (£24 agencies and which will contain personal information million) are (a) under construction and (b) expected to April 2009 — — become operational in each of the next five years; and May 2009 10,286 1,022 if he will make a statement. [286503] June 2009 2,997 3,878 Total 13,283 4,900 Chris Bryant: There are no major databases under construction or expected to go live in the next five years Radioactive Waste: Exports in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

Mr. Whittingdale: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Databases Energy and Climate Change if he will bring forward legislative proposals to permit the export of graphite nuclear waste to the United States; and if he will make Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what categories of statement. [283860] personal information about members of the public are Mr. Kidney: There are currently no proposals to bring contained on each relevant database managed by his forward legislation to permit the export of graphite Department and its agencies; on what date each nuclear waste to the United States of America. category of information began to be collected; and if he will make a statement. [285980] The Government’s policy, as set out in the Command Paper 2919, is that radioactive wastes should not be Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office exported from the UK except in circumstances where is (FCO)’s Data Protection Register entry with the to be treated so that its storage and/or disposal is more Information Commissioner’s Office details the general manageable; where other countries have the ability to categories for which the Department processes personal deal with it appropriately; and where it will not add data for its work. They are staff administration; advertising, materially to their existing radioactive waste legacy. marketing and public relations; accounts and records; UDM-Vendside and to work for the UK’s interests in a safe, just and prosperous world. The register entry is to be renewed in September this year. Establishing the date on which John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy each category of information began to be collected by and Climate Change how many Ministers of his the FCO and its agencies could be done only at Department and its predecessors have met representatives disproportionate cost. of UDM-Vendside in each year since 1997. [286868]

Mr. Kidney: There is no record of any Minister Departmental Electronic Equipment having met the UDM or Vendside. Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) photocopiers, (b) scanning devices and (c) fax FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE machines, excluding multi-function devices, there are in British Indian Ocean Territory his Department; how many there were in each of the last three years; and if he will make a statement. [286173] Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what response he has made to the European Court of Human Rights on Chris Bryant: Responsibility for the purchase of the application made by the Chagos Islanders. [286768] photocopiers, scanning devices and fax machines, excluding multi-function devices, is devolved to individual budget Chris Bryant: The Government have been invited by holders worldwide. This information is not held centrally the Court to submit written observations on the and the question could be answered only at disproportionate admissibility and merits of the application by the Chagos cost. Islanders and to inform the Registry of the Government’s The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has position concerning a friendly settlement. Due to the taken an active role in the Greening Government ICT very recent receipt of submissions on behalf of Interveners, strategy by providing a detailed plan for the FCO. Part the Government are now seeking a short extension to of this includes examining its print policy with a view to the deadline of 17 July 2009 set by the Court. As my reducing the FCO’s overall printer count. 607W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 608W

Departmental Furniture The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for administrative burdens stemming from the EU at Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his approximately one-third of the total administrative burden. Department’s agencies spent on furniture in each of However, this applies across Government and is not the last five years. [273736] specific to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is directly responsible for less EU legislation than some Chris Bryant: This information is not held centrally other Departments. and to provide it would incur disproportionate cost. The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, which could be a devolved administration or a local Departmental Manpower authority as well as the Government or the EU, but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective of Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for their origins, should comply with the principles of better Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many regulation. Regulations should be risk based, proportionate members of his Department’s staff deployed in each and well designed, so as to achieve their objectives while region of Afghanistan (a) have been trained in each also keeping costs to a minimum. The Government year since 2001 and (b) are being trained in each local continue to work with European partners to ensure that Afghan language. [283551] EU regulations meet these standards.

Mr. Ivan Lewis: Since 2004, five Foreign and EU: Legislation Commonwealth Office (FCO) staff have studied Pashto before being deployed in Afghanistan. 21 staff have also Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign been trained in Dari—often building on existing language and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made base of Farsi—before working in Afghanistan. Currently of the proportion of statutory obligations provided for there are nine studying Dari, who are due to be deployed by legislation on matters for which his Department is to Afghanistan later this year. responsible which were introduced as a consequence of We only started to hold management information obligations arising from EU legislation in the latest about language skills centrally in 2004. Our system period for which figures are available. [281864] records those who have passed exams on completion of language courses funded by the FCO, so may not Chris Bryant: It is very difficult to provide precise include those who did not take an examination, those figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems whose acquisition of the language was not the result of from the European Union. class-based instruction, or whose studies were not funded The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried by the FCO. out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of administrative burdens stemming from the EU at Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for approximately one-third of the total administrative burden. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many However, this applies across Government and is not reception staff his Department employs at (a) its specific to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which offices in King Charles Street, (b) other locations in is directly responsible for less EU legislation than some the UK and (c) overseas posts. [286122] other Departments. The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, Chris Bryant: Across the UK estate the Foreign and which could be a devolved administration or a local Commonwealth Office (FCO) has nine full time reception authority as well as the Government or the EU, but the positions. The staff members who fill these positions quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective of are provided as part of the UK Reception Services their origins, should comply with the principles of better Contract. regulation. Regulations should be risk based, proportionate Responsibility for procuring reception services overseas and well designed, so as to achieve their objectives while has been devolved to posts within the FCO overseas also keeping costs to a minimum. The Government estate. Each post would need to be contacted to obtain continue to work with European partners to ensure that the details of their reception employees. As the information EU regulations meet these standards. relating to reception staff overseas is not held centrally, it could be provided only at a disproportionate cost. Forced Marriages: Victim Support Schemes

EU Law Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his most Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign recent assessment is of the Forced Marriage Unit’s and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made effectiveness in reducing the number of forced of the cost to his Department of the statutory marriages; and how many forced marriages reported to obligations upon it provided for in legislation the unit involved people under 16 years old in the last introduced as a consequence of obligations arising 12 months. [284797] from EU legislation in the most recent 12 months for which figures are available. [283473] Chris Bryant: The Forced Marriage Unit has been a great success in encouraging people to report potential Chris Bryant: It is very difficult to provide precise instances of forced marriage, in intervening in specific figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems cases and in getting across the message that forced from the European Union. marriage is not acceptable in any culture or any religion. 609W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 610W

The very nature of forced marriage means that it is Honduras: Politics and Government likely that a number of eases go unreported. In recent years Government action to address forced marriage Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for has focused on encouraging victims and potential victims Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations to come forward and seek help. he has made to the authorities in Honduras on the Partly as result of growing awareness of the support principle of democracy and the restoration of the available, the number of cases coming to our attention government and President Zelaya. [286830] is rising. Last year the Forced Marriage Unit, a joint Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Home Office Chris Bryant [holding answer 14 July 2009]: As Foreign Unit, received over 1,600 reports of suspected incidences and Commonwealth Office Minister responsible for our of forced marriage to its helpline. Of these the unit relations with central America, I issued an immediate directly intervened to help victims in 420 cases, which public statement on 28 June 2009 following President included overseas assistance and support to reluctant Zelaya’s forcible removal from Honduras. In this statement sponsors in immigration cases. 14 per cent. of overseas the UK condemned the expulsion and called for the assistance cases involved people under 16 years old. restoration of democratic, constitutional government So far this year, figures for January to June show that in Honduras. The UK supported the UN General Assembly the unit received 770 calls to its helpline in relation to Resolution, adopted unanimously on 30 June 2009, incidence of forced marriage, which represents an increase which called for the restoration of the government in in those seeking help of 16 per cent. over the same Honduras. We have also supported a series of EU period last year. declarations, issued on 29 June 2009, 2 July 2009 and 7 July 2009. The most recent of these declarations supported efforts to seek a peaceful negotiated solution Foreign Policy to the crisis, and welcomed the mediation role played by President of Costa Rica, Oscar Arias.

Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for Iran: Asylum Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of the effect of the Government’s foreign policy on levels of violent extremism in the UK; and if David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for he will make a statement. [287036] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with Ministerial colleagues on the effect on policy on Iranian asylum seekers of the Mr. Ivan Lewis: We recognise that individual reactions recent unrest in Iran. [286307] to UK foreign policies can be a factor in radicalisation, and that violent extremists exploit this when recruiting Mr. Ivan Lewis: None. However, Foreign and others to their cause. But we also know that radicalisation Commonwealth Office and Home Office officials regularly occurs for a wide range of complex and personal reasons. review the country guidance on which asylum decisions We work to explain our foreign policy, dealing with are based. We continue to monitor closely the political misperceptions that exist. Overseas we do this through and human rights situation in Iran through key media and public diplomacy work. To encourage debate governmental, non-governmental and other human rights and engagement in the UK we have a programme of organisations. outreach to communities by Ministers and senior officials All Iranian asylum and human rights applications on important foreign policy issues. are considered by the Home Office on their individual merits, in accordance with obligations under the 1951 UN Refugee Convention and the European Convention Freedom of Information on Human Rights. Each application is assessed against the latest available information about the situation in Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Iran. Specially-trained case owners consult these sources Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to via the Iran Country of Origin Information Report volume 2, page 41 of his Department’s Annual Report produced by the UK Border Agency’s Country of Origin for 2008-09, what proportion of the requests for Information Service published at information under the Freedom of Information Act http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/ 2000 received in 2008 were from foreign embassies, country_reports.html#countries High Commissions or governments; what proportion and the Iran Operational Guidance Note which gives of such requests resulted in full or partial disclosures of guidance on the most common types of asylum claims information; and if he will make a statement. [286244] received and the circumstances in which they are likely to prove founded or unfounded. Chris Bryant: Freedom of Information requests received at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office are recorded Israel and logged on a database by the date received and by the name of the requestor. Mr. Letwin: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Information about the company or organisation the and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations requestor may represent is not recorded. Requests from he has made to the government of Israel on the reported foreign embassies, high commissions or governments boarding of, and removal of persons from, a Free Gaza cannot therefore be identified without incurring boat in international waters by Israeli troops; and if he disproportionate cost. will make a statement. [284127] 611W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 612W

Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign travellers to take out comprehensive travel insurance, Secretary spoke to his Israeli counterpart, Avigdor find out about the country they are intending to visit, Lieberman, on 1 July 2009 and raised the issue with and read our travel advice. Publicity initiatives include, him. The Foreign Secretary asked whether or not the for example, maintaining a dedicated section of the Spirit of Humanity was intercepted in international FCO web site, producing bespoke media campaigns to waters. We will continue to press the Israeli Government reach our key target audiences, working with over 300 for clarification. campaign partners to deliver travel safety messages directly to travellers and producing television fillers Northern Ireland shown in free-to-air airtime. Spending on the Know Before YouGo initiative since Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001 is as follows: Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many residents of Northern Ireland received consular £ assistance from his Department in the last year for which figures are available. [287020] 2001-02 754,939.00. 2002-03 616,447.00. Chris Bryant: The configuration of our consular database 2003-04 811,819.00. does not make it possible to break down assistance 2004-05 1— statistics by place of residence. Figures for the number 2005-06 1— of Northern Ireland residents assisted are therefore not 2006-07 924,000 available. 2007-08 1,132,768 2008-09 1,494,126 Palestinians: Israel 1 Figures unavailable

Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Turkey: EU Accession and Commonwealth Affairs whether officials of his Department have held recent meetings with representatives of labour rights groups in Israeli Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory to for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on Turkey’s accession to the EU; and what recent discuss labour conditions in that territory. [287157] discussions he had with his (a) French and (b) German Mr. Ivan Lewis: There have been no recent meetings. counterparts on Turkish accession. [285242]

Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Chris Bryant: The Government remain a strong advocate and Commonwealth Affairs whether his Department and supporter of Turkish accession to the EU, and has received requests from UK companies for advice reaffirms this at each possible opportunity. The UK on obligations under international law in respect of works closely with other EU member states to take trade with Israeli settlements in the occupied forward the accession negotiations and supports Turkey’s Palestinian territory in the last 12 months. [287160] reform process to ensure that EU negotiations remain on track. Mr. Ivan Lewis: We consider all settlements in the My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary regularly Occupied Palestinian Territories to be illegal under meets his French and German counterparts. He met international law, and a serious obstacle to peace, and France’s Foreign Affairs Minister, Bernard Kouchner, have made this position clear. most recently at the France summit in July where they The import of goods from settlements was discussed discussed political and technical issues in relation to the at a roundtable meeting hosted by Cabinet Office officials EU accession negotiations. regarding proposed voluntary guidance on the labelling Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead, the Minister for of settlement produce in March. That meeting was Europe, recently met her French counterpart, Pierre attended by representatives of Government, retailers Lellouche, to whom she emphasised that the EU accession and some UK companies. process was key to reforms in Turkey. Baroness Kinnock We have not provided legal advice on UK companies’ spoke in early July to her German counterpart, Gunther obligations in relation to trade with Israeli settlements, Gloser, about EU issues, including enlargement. on which UK companies should of course take their own independent advice.

Travel Information: Finance NORTHERN IRELAND

Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Crime Prevention Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Department has spent on its Know Before You Go initiative in each year since 2001; and if he will make a Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [287022] Northern Ireland how many Serious Crime Prevention Orders have been issued in Northern Ireland to date. Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office [286873] (FCO)’s Know Before You Go campaign encourages travellers to be better prepared before going overseas so Paul Goggins: There have been four serious crime they can stay safe and healthy.Our key messages encourage prevention orders issued in Northern Ireland to date. 613W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 614W

Damian McBride Proceeds of Crime

Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on what date he last met Mr. Damian Northern Ireland what proportion of assets recovered McBride in the course of his official duties. [287421] from organised crime in Northern Ireland the Community Fund will allocate to communities in Northern Ireland. Mr. Woodward: I have not met with Mr. Damian [286874] McBride in the course of my official duties. Paul Goggins: In June I announced the establishment of a dedicated Community Fund for Northern Ireland Departmental Data Protection which this year will give £175,000 to the Departments of Social Development and Culture, Arts and Leisure Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for for distribution to NI communities most affected by Northern Ireland how many (a) attempts and crime. (b) successful attempts were made to gain unauthorised Terrorism access to each (i) database and (ii) ICT system run by his Department in each of the last five years; and if he Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for will make a statement. [286542] Northern Ireland how many armed robberies are known to have been carried out by (a) dissident Paul Goggins: The Northern Ireland Office does not republicans and (b) loyalist paramilitaries in Northern maintain a record of unsuccessful attempts to gain Ireland in each of the last 12 months. [287581] unauthorised access to its databases or ICT systems. There have been no successful attempts to gain access to Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the any departmental databases or ICT systems in the last Chief Constable. I have asked him to reply directly to five years. the hon. Member, and a copy of his letter will be placed in the Library of the House. Kidnapping OLYMPICS Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Data Protection Northern Ireland how many so-called tiger kidnappings have been carried out in Northern Ireland in the last Mr. Blunt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how 12 months. [287570] many breaches of information security there have been at her Office in the last five years. [281075] Paul Goggins: The figures are recorded per financial Tessa Jowell: My ministerial portfolio requires my year. In the last year (April 2008 to March 2009), there Office to operate across the estates of the Cabinet Office have been six tiger kidnaps carried out in Northern and Department for Culture, Media and Sport. I therefore Ireland. refer the hon. Member to the answers to be provided by the Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. Smith) Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for and the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Northern Ireland how many people were arrested for Sport. offences connected with so-called tiger kidnappings in Olympic Games 2012: Employment Northern Ireland in the last 12 months. [287571] Alistair Burt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the what percentage of construction workers employed chief constable. I have asked him to reply directly to the at the Olympic Park are (a) UK, (b) other EU and hon. Member, and a copy of his letter will be placed in (c) non-EU nationals. [285109] the Library of the House. Tessa Jowell: The latest available nationality data Northern Ireland Forensic Science Agency provide a snap shot of the contracted work force at the end of October 2008, and was published by the Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) in December 2008. These Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State data showed that of the 3,046 people employed on the for Northern Ireland what the cost to the public purse Olympic Park at that time: of Forensic Science Northern Ireland was in the (a) 63 per cent. were British 12 months (a) before and (b) after the changes made (b) 86 per cent. were EU nationals and to its Operations Directorate in January 2008. [286315] (c) 14 per cent. non-EU nationals. The ODA works closely with the UK Border Agency Paul Goggins: The information requested is as follows: to ensure that all workers on the site are legally entitled (a) For the year 1 January 2007 to 31 December 2008 the costs to work in the UK. were £9,982,252. The work force reflects both the diversity of London (b) For the year 1 January 2008 to 31 December 2009 the costs and the five host boroughs. The GLA 2006 annual were £10,488,500. population survey (published 2008) found that the The figures provided reflect the sum total of all the percentages of five host borough residents born outside changes in FSNI and do not relate solely to changes of the UK were: Newham 44 per cent; Tower Hamlet made to the Operations Directorate. 39 per cent; Hackney residents 37 per cent; Waltham 615W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 616W

Forest 29 per cent; Greenwich 22 per cent. A whole taken to ensure than hon. and right hon. Members will range of measures has been put in place by the ODA not be delayed in travelling to the House during the and its partners to ensure local people are well placed to period of the London 2012 Olympics; and if she will benefit from employment and training on the Olympic make a statement. [284791] site including 48 hours exclusive access to vacancies through local job brokerage services. Tessa Jowell [holding answer 8 July 2009]: Further to my response to the hon. Member on 10 February 2009, Official Report, column 1890W, I can confirm that the Olympic Games 2012: Lancashire ODA continues to progress and develop its planning of the transport operations that will keep London moving Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister for the Olympics during the Games. As the London Olympic Games and what recent assessment she has made of the economic Paralympic Games Act requires the ODA to keep its effects of the London 2012 Olympics on (a) Ribble Olympic Transport Plan under review, the ODA intends Valley constituency and (b) Lancashire. [282260] to publish a revised plan in 2010 to update on the latest progress in ensuring safe, reliable and accessible transport Tessa Jowell [holding answer 29 June 2009]: This for all London’s visitors, residents and commuters— Government are fully committed to maximising the including Members of Parliament—over the duration economic benefits of the Games to the UK, particularly of both the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games. in these challenging economic times. Although no specific assessment has been made of the economic effects to the Ribble Valley constituency and Lancashire, the TRANSPORT region stands to gain from a range of opportunities created by the Games. These include businesses winning Aviation: Lasers Games-related work, increased tourism, as well as training and employment opportunities. The pre-Games training Mr. Grieve: To ask the Minister of State, Department camps will enable regions to showcase themselves on an for Transport how many reported instances there were international stage and attract inward investment, and of aircraft safety being impaired by misuse of laser UKTI is helping businesses to use the Games as a pointers in each of the last three years. [286778] springboard for export. We are already seeing progress in these areas, for Paul Clark: The information requested is provided in example, 37 of the Olympic Delivery Authority’s direct the following table: suppliers are businesses registered in the north-west, of these nine are in Lancashire, and two of these are Number of laser incidents registered in the Ribble Valley constituency. As well as reported these direct contracts, companies in the north-west are also winning businesses in the supply chains for the 2006 8 Games, for example, a Bolton-based company is providing 2007 30 steel for the Olympic Stadium. LOCOG’s procurement 2008 206 will begin in earnest towards the end of the year, The chart is from the Safety Data Department in the bringing further opportunities to businesses across the Civil Aviation Authority. It includes incidents reported UK, including the north-west. in the UK and incidents overseas involving UK registered The London 2012 Business Network is providing aircraft. businesses across the UK access to Games-related contracts, Under Article 142 of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) and any support they need to compete for them. pilots experiencing lasers directed at them are asked to CompeteFor, the electronic brokerage service for buyers report the event using the Mandatory Occurrence Reporting and suppliers, a key component of the network, is Scheme. The CAA follows up each report and, where opening up supply chains further than any Games appropriate, prosecutes the offender. previously. The Department for Transport is working on an A total of 68 facilities in the region are included in amendment to Article 135 of the ANO to make it a the official London 2012 Pre-Games Training Camp specific offence to direct or shine light intentionally at Guide. A Memorandum of Understanding has been an aircraft. The amendment will be published in the signed between the North West Development Agency consolidated version of the ANO which will come into and the Oceania National Olympic Committees force in the autumn. (representing 17 National Olympic Committees but excluding Australia and New Zealand). These 15 Pacific Cycling: Hampshire Island countries including Fiji and Papua New Guinea will use facilities in the region ahead of the Games in Sandra Gidley: To ask the Minister of State, 2012. Department for Transport how many (a) fatal and (b) non-fatal accidents involving cyclists were recorded on the roads in (i) Test Valley Borough and Olympic Games 2012: Transport (ii) Southampton in each of the last five years. [287762]

Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister for the Paul Clark: The number of (a) fatal and (b) non-fatal Olympics pursuant to the answer of 10 February 2009, reported personal injury road accidents involving cyclists Official Report, columns 1889-90W, on Olympic in (i) Test Valley borough and (ii) Southampton in each Games 2012: transport, what further steps she has of the last five years are given in the table: 617W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 618W

Chris Mole: Pay remits are prepared by or on behalf Number of accidents of each Agency’s Chief Executive. Each Chief Executive 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 is responsible for the pay remit of their Agency. Test Valley Fatal 01101 Departmental Performance Appraisal Non-fatal 21 16 31 30 26 John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, Southampton Department for Transport what proportion of (a) male Fatal 00112and (b) female staff of his central Department have Non-fatal 102 92 115 120 116 received the highest appraisal marking in each reporting year since the formation of the central Department. Departmental Accountancy [287206] Chris Mole: The proportions and numbers of staff, Steve Webb: To ask the Minister of State, by gender, who have been appraised as ″exceeded″ (the Department for Transport when he expects to publish highest appraisal mark) since the formation of the his Department’s resource accounts for 2008-09. central Department for Transport in 2002 are set out in [287343] the following table.

Chris Mole: The Department for Transport has laid a Female Total Percentage Male Total Percentage combined annual report and accounts for 2008-09 in Parliament today. The resource accounts were certified 2002-2003 140 446 31.39 168 732 22.95 by the Comptroller and Auditor General on 13 July. 2003-2004 169 555 30.45 237 965 24.56 2004-2005 182 640 28.44 238 1039 22.91 Departmental Conditions of Employment 2005-2006 191 697 27.40 274 1148 23.87 2006-2007 190 665 28.57 304 1105 27.51 2007-2008 204 649 31.43 287 1084 26.48 John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what his Department’s equality impact assessment is of its new probation Driving Standards Agency: Pay policy in relation to disability; and if he will make a statement. [287207] Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how much was paid in bonuses to Chris Mole: The Central Department completed an (a) directors, (b) senior managers, (c) specialist and equality impact assessment of its new probation policy delivery managers and (d) executive support and and assessed it as having low negative impact. We are administration staff in the Driving Standards Agency under a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments to in each of the last five years. [280617] ensure disabled persons are not placed at a substantial disadvantage in comparison to those persons who are not disabled. This applies to our new probation policy Paul Clark: Bonus payments to (a) directors are and HR will monitor and review the process to ensure managed by the Department for Transport (Central this is given full effect. Department). I refer the hon. Member to our answer of 26 November 2008, Official Report, columns 1567-68W. John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, A comprehensive breakdown of (b) senior managers, Department for Transport for what reasons his (c) specialist and delivery managers and (d) executive Department’s new probation policy does not give support and administration staff in the Driving Standards probationers the right to bring a grievance concerning Agency can be provided only at disproportionate cost. the extension of probation. [287208] However, total figures for each of the last five financial years are as following: Chris Mole: The Department’s new probation policy complies with the ACAS Code of Practice on discipline Financial year Pay bands 1-7 (£) and grievance. Moreover, it is essential for ensuring 2003-04 1,138,579 good administration that the Department manages 2004-05 320,809 performance effectively and requires that all new employees 2005-06 692,107 demonstrate their suitability for the role for which they 2006-07 1,180,160 have been employed. While a specific grievance procedure 2007-08 672,714 is not available in respect of decisions to extend, a probationary employee has a right to appeal against a decision to terminate their employment. Driving: Working Hours

Departmental Pay Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what assessment he has John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, made of the merits of seeking an exemption from the Department for Transport who is responsible for the EU Drivers’ Hours Directive for those who drive pay remit for each of his Department’s agencies. horseboxes over 7.5 tonnes for recreational purposes; [287205] and if he will make a statement. [286330] 619W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 620W

Paul Clark: Given the flexibilities which already exist but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective within the EU drivers’ hours rules (Regulation (EC) of their origins, should comply with the principles of No. 561/2006), we see little prospect of the European better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, Commission agreeing to a UK request to exempt proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their recreational drivers of horseboxes over 7.5 tonnes. objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The It should still be possible for those in full-time Government continue to work with European partners employment who drive large horseboxes recreationally to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. to schedule a reduced weekly rest period of 24 hours immediately before the equestrian event in question, or EU Laws in between driving to and from the event (i.e. at the event itself) without the need for a derogation. Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department East Coast Railway Line for Transport what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department of the statutory obligations upon it provided for in legislation on matters for which it is Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Minister of State, responsible which were introduced as a consequence of Department for Transport what the administrative and obligations arising from EU legislation in the most legal costs to the public purse of the franchising recent 12 months for which figures are available. process were on each occasion when the East Coast [283471] Main Line franchise was let. [286722] Mr. Khan: The information requested could be provided Chris Mole [holding answer 14 July 2009]: The costs only at disproportionate cost. It is very difficult to to the Department for Transport for undertaking the provide precise figures for the proportion of UK legislation re-franchising of the Inter City East Coast (ICEC) that stems from the European Union (EU). franchise in 2007 were £1,260,000 of which legal costs were £168,000. These costs were recovered from Sea The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried Containers, Great North Eastern Railway’s (GNER) out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of parent company, under an agreement made between the administrative burdens stemming from the EU at Department and Sea Containers prior to GNER handing approximately one third of the total administrative back the East Coast franchise. burden. The previous re-franchising in 2005 was undertaken The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, by the Strategic Rail Authority, in the normal course of which could of course be a devolved Administration or business, at the end of GNER’s franchise term at an a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, additional cost of £2,362,000 of which legal costs were but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective £408,000. of their origins, should comply with the principles of better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, The costs incurred by the Office of Passenger Rail proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their Franchising in the original letting of the franchise in objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The 1996 and the extension of the franchise in 2003 by the Government continue to work with European partners Strategic Rail Authority could be provided only at to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. disproportionate cost. The costs of any re-franchising prior to the end of Members: Correspondence the full term of the current franchise are recoverable from a performance bond that will fall due under the current franchise agreement. Mr. Paul Goodman: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport when he plans to respond EC Law to the letter from the hon. Member for Wycombe of 13 May 2009 on Wycombe Air Park. [287178] Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what estimate he has made of the Paul Clark: The Department for Transport has no proportion of statutory obligations provided for by record of receiving a letter dated 13 May 2009 from the legislation on matters for which his Department is hon. Member for Wycombe regarding Wycombe Air responsible which were introduced as a consequence of Park. obligations arising from EU legislation in the latest period for which figures are available. [281860] Motorcycles: Driving Instruction

Mr. Khan: The information requested could be provided Lembit Öpik: To ask the Minister of State, only at disproportionate cost. It is very difficult to Department for Transport if he will publish the provide precise figures for the proportion of UK legislation findings of the research commissioned by his that stems from the European Union (EU). Department, entitled In Depth Study of Motorcycle The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried Training, due to have been completed in October 2007. out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of [286963] administrative burdens stemming from the EU at approximately one third of the total administrative Paul Clark: We plan to publish the findings of the in burden. depth study of motorcycle training by October 2009. The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, The study was largely complete by early 2008 and which could of course be a devolved Administration or provisional results were taken into account by the Driving a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, Standards Agency in the design of the new motorcycle 621W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 622W test that was introduced in April 2009. The report is £ million currently being finalised by the research contractor, Train operating mainly to ensure it reflects changes to the testing regime. company (TOC) 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 Railways: Electrification Revenue share Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, received Department for Transport how his Department Northern Rail 7.8 6.3 2.3 co-ordinates its policy on electrification of rail routes Virgin West 33.0 0.0 0.0 Coast with its procurement of rolling stock. [287149] Total revenue 40.8 6.3 2.3 share received Chris Mole: The case for electrifying more of the rail network depends heavily on having suitable new or cascaded rolling stock to run on newly electrified lines. Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, Consequently, the Department for Transport is Department for Transport what his policy is on incorporating rolling stock procurement and cascade competition on the rail network; and if he will assess issues into its analysis of electrification proposals. the level of competition between the train operating companies serving Torquay and Paignton stations. Railways: Franchises [287150]

Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Minister of State, Chris Mole: The Department for Transport does not Department for Transport if he will estimate the cost to have a policy to achieve a defined level of competitive the public purse of returning all rail franchises to pressure between train operators offering the same journey, public ownership. [286592] and in many parts of the rail network there is a single operator. Chris Mole: It is not the policy of the Government to The Office of the Rail Regulator has concurrent operate rail franchises permanently in the public sector. jurisdiction with the Office of Fair Trading to investigate In situations where the Government is obliged to do so potential breaches of the Competition Act 1998 in on a temporary basis in order to fulfil its Operator of relation to the railways, and is also responsible for Last Resort duties under section 30 of the Railways Act determining access rights for any open access train 1993 the costs are usually met from the franchise’s operators who may apply to operate a complementary performance bond. and competitive rail service. Roads: Construction John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how much revenue support Harry Cohen: To ask the Minister of State, Department (a) First Great Western, (b) First Capital Connect, for Transport how much capital expenditure his Department (c) National Express East Anglia, (d) Northern Rail has incurred on constructing new roads in each of the and (e) Virgin West Coast have received from his last 20 years. [285598] Department under the terms in their respective franchise agreements to date. [286899] Mr. Khan: The following table provides information on net spend on Highways Agency major improvements Chris Mole [holding answer 14 July 2009]: Details of since 1998-99. Information before this is not readily the money received and paid out under the revenue available due to systems and accounting changes and support and share arrangements between 2006-07 and could be provided only at a disproportionate cost. 2008-09 are set out in the following table. No revenue support payments were made to these franchises under Funding (£ million) their franchise agreements prior to this: 1998-99 452 £ million 1999-2000 318 Train operating 2000-01 299 company 2001-02 424 (TOC) 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2002-03 483 Revenue support 2003-04 235 paid 2004-05 317 First Great 47.8 0.0 0.0 2005-06 483 Western 2006-07 814 First Capital 0.0 0.0 0.0 2007-08 759 Connect 2008-09 725 National 14.0 0.0 3.3 Note: Express East 1998-99 to 2000-01 are outturns on a cash accounting basis; figures Anglia from 2001-02 onwards are on a resource accounting basis. Northern rail 0.0 0.0 0.0 On local major road schemes which are promoted by Virgin West 0.0 0.0 0.0 Coast the respective local highway authority, the Department Total revenue 61.8 0.0 3.3 does not hold information in a format which distinguishes support paid expenditure incurred between local major road schemes and local major public transport schemes and this can be provided only at a disproportionate cost. 623W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 624W

Rolling Stock and London will be on hourly shuttle services which will be diverted via the Chiltern Line, though the Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, southbound services will still terminate at Euston. Department for Transport what steps his Department is taking to increase rolling stock available to the First Great Western franchise. [287148] CABINET OFFICE Chris Mole: We are in discussion with First Great Advertising Advisory Committee Western regarding the provision of additional train capacity, and will make an announcement in due course. Mr. Hurd: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Tolls on what dates the Advisory Committee on Advertising has met in the last 12 months. [250318] Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what Government (a) studies, Tessa Jowell: The Government Strategic Marketing (b) trials and (c) pilots have been commissioned on Advisory Board (GSMAB) replaced the Advisory road pricing in each year since 1997; and how much Committee on Advertising (ACA) in January 2008. each cost. [284706] The GSMAB has a wider remit than the ACA, not only holding the Central Office for Information (COI) Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport has to account but also all Government Departments. commissioned studies and trials since 1997 to increase Under the new terms of reference, GSMAB aims to its understanding of the key challenges of developing meet at least four times annually at the chairman’s robust and reliable road user charging processes, procedures discretion. and technologies. These included the Road Pricing Over the last 12 months the board has met on the Feasibility Study, the DIRECTS trials on interoperability following dates: and other systems engineering studies which between 4 September 2008 them incurred total expenditure of approximately £29 million, between 1997 and 2007. We have no breakdown 2 December 2008 of this in the form requested. We have not commissioned 24 February 2009 any pilots on road pricing. 10 June 2009 Since 2007 effort has concentrated on the Demonstrations Project, examining the technology and processes that Brain Cancer would be needed if any road pricing scheme was to have the ability to charge by time and distance travelled, as Sandra Gidley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet well as place. The first phases of this work are under Office how many cases of brain cancer were diagnosed way following the letting of contracts in September in each strategic health authority area in each of the 2008, with a value of £10 million. The project has last six years. [286379] created a research environment to help us understand the feasibility, operational performance and business Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls issues for market delivered services; however, the within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. Government have no plans to introduce national road I have asked the Authority to reply. pricing. Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated July 2009: As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your West Coast Railway Line recent Parliamentary Question asking how many cases of brain cancer were diagnosed in each strategic health authority area in Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Minister of State, Department each of the last six years. [286379] for Transport what account was taken of the travelling The latest available figures for newly diagnosed cases of cancer requirements of people attending the Rugby League (incidence) are for the year 2006. Numbers of newly diagnosed cases of brain cancer in each strategic health authority area from Challenge Cup Final in scheduling maintenance work 2001 to 2006 are in Table 1. on the West Coast Main Line on the weekend of 1 28 and 29 August 2009. [286672] Table 1: Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of brain cancer , persons: strategic health authorities2 in England, 2001 to 2006 Chris Mole: The planning and timing of engineering 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 works is an operational matter for Network Rail under North 216 198 197 212 225 226 the national possessions regime overseen by the independent East Office of Rail Regulation (ORR). Under this regime the North 512 489 508 517 496 502 majority of engineering possessions are specifically planned West by industry-wide agreement, often up to 18 months in Yorkshire 406 408 366 395 384 393 advance—and well before the identity of the Rugby and the League Cup Final teams becomes known. Humber East 303 306 308 335 342 327 Network Rail advises that on Saturday 29, Sunday Midlands 30 and until 6.30 a.m on Monday 31 August it will be West 321 375 356 339 373 356 taking a number of possessions on the southern section Midlands of the West Coast Main Line, meaning this section of East of 397 376 395 370 407 382 the line will be closed to train services. As a result, England passengers travelling between Birmingham New Street London 436 431 411 399 434 387 625W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 626W

Table 1: Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of brain cancer1, Death persons: strategic health authorities2 in England, 2001 to 2006 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 Anne Milton: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet South 331 343 340 320 303 316 East Office how many death certificates mentioning Coast (a) methadone, (b) cannabis, (c) benzodiazepine, South 288 263 226 279 297 270 (d) barbiturates, (e) steroids and (f) stimulants were Central issued in each of the last five years. [287370] South 411 463 425 419 468 444 West Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls 1 Brain cancer is coded to C71 in the International Classification of Diseases Tenth Revision (ICD-10). within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. 2 Based on boundaries as of 2006. I have asked the Authority to reply. Source: Office for National Statistics Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated July 2009: As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking how many death certificates mentioning Brain Cancer: Hampshire (a) methadone, (b) cannabis, (c) benzodiazepine, (d) barbiturates, (e) steroids and (f) stimulants were issued in each of the last five years. (287370) Sandra Gidley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet The table attached provides the numbers of deaths where Office how many cases of brain cancer were diagnosed the underlying cause was drug poisoning and (a) methadone, in each primary care trust area within the ceremonial (b) cannabis, (c) benzodiazepines (d) barbiturates or (e) steroids county of Hampshire for each of the last six years. were mentioned on the death certificate, either alone or together [286283] with other substances, in England and Wales, from 2003 to 2007 (the latest year available). Where more than one drug is mentioned on the death certificate, Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls it is not always possible to tell which of them was primarily within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. responsible for the death. I have asked the Authority to reply. Figures for deaths where stimulants are mentioned on the Letter from Karen Dunnell, July 2009: death certificate are not available. Stimulants include a broad range of substances, such as amphetamines and ecstasy, but there As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your is no official definition that is used for statistical purposes. recent Parliamentary Question asking how many cases of brain cancer were diagnosed in each primary care trust area within the Table 1: Number of deaths where drug poisoning was the underlying Ceremonial County of Hampshire for each of the last six years. cause of death1 and methadone, cannabis, benzodiazepines, [286283] barbiturates or steroids were mentioned on the death certificate, England and Wales2, 2003-073 The latest available figures for newly diagnosed cases of cancer Deaths (incidence) are for the year 2006. Numbers of newly diagnosed cases of brain cancer in each primary care trust area within the 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 Ceremonial County of Hampshire from 2001 to 2006 are in Methadone 201 219 220 241 325 Table 1. Cannabis 11 19 19 17 12 Table 1: Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of brain cancer1, Benzodiazepines 224 233 190 177 207 persons: Primary Care Trusts2 within the Ceremonial County of Barbiturates 20 16 14 17 6 Hampshire, 2001 to 2006 Steroids 0 0 1 3 0 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Portsmouth 13127121516Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). Deaths were included where the City underlying cause was due to drug poisoning (shown in the following Teaching table) and where the substances were mentioned on the death certificate either alone or together with other substances. Southampton 181751817152 City Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Hampshire 97 102 103 88 118 99 1 Brain cancer is coded to C71 in the International Classification of Diseases Tenth Revision (ICD-10) ICD-10 Description 2 Based on boundaries as of 2008 Source: F11-F16, F18-F19 Mental and behavioural disorders due to Office for National Statistics drug use (excluding alcohol and tobacco) X40-X44 Accidental poisoning by drugs, medicaments and biological substances Civil Servants: Vacancies X60-X64 Intentional self-poisoning by drugs, medicaments and biological substances X85 Assault by drugs, medicaments and biological Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet substances Office how many graduate vacancies in the Civil Y10-Y14 Poisoning by drugs, medicaments and Service there (a) were in 2008 and (b) are expected to biological substances, undetermined intent be in 2009. [287777] Anne Milton: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Angela E. Smith: Departments and agencies undertake Office how many (a) men and (b) women aged their own recruitment, and the Cabinet Office holds no (i) under 20, (ii) 21-30, (iii) 31-40, (iv) 41-50, (v) 51-60 data on graduate recruitment into the civil service generally. and (vi) 61 years and above died from an underlying 627W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 628W cause which was (A) obesity-related, (B) diabetes- in England and Wales, 1999 to 2008 (the latest year available), or related, (C) drug-related, (D) eating disorder-related (5) drug poisoning, in England and Wales, 1998 to 2007 (the latest and (E) related to a sexually transmitted infection in year available) (Table 5). each of the last 10 years. [287377] The figures provided in Tables 1 to 4 reflect the number of deaths certified as due to the specified conditions. It is not possible to identify all deaths ’related’ to these conditions. For Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls example, obesity may play an important role in deaths due to heart disease or diabetes, but is rarely recorded on the death within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. certificate. The figures presented for obesity in Table 1 are therefore I have asked the authority to reply. likely to underestimate the actual number of deaths in which this Letter from Karen Dunnell: factor is involved. It is likely that the figures in Table 3 underestimate the actual As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your number of deaths where an eating disorder was involved. This is recent question asking how many (a) men and (b) women aged because deaths registered after a coroner’s inquest usually state (i) under 20, (ii) between 21 and 30, (iii) between 31 and 40, the immediate physical condition which caused death as the (iv) between 41 and 50, (v) between 51 and 60 and (vi) 61 years underlying cause, and not any mental or behavioural disorder and above died from an underlying cause which was (A) obesity- which may have led to that condition. related, (B) diabetes-related, (C) drug-related, (D) eating disorder- ONS monitors deaths from drug-related poisoning using a related and (E) related to a sexually transmitted infection in each special database, developed to enable the analysis of deaths by the of the last 10 years. (287377) specific substances involved. The tables attached provide the number of deaths for (a) males The deaths included are certified by Coroners following post- and (b) females aged (i) under 211, (ii) 21-30, (iii) 31-40, (iv) 41-50, mortem and inquest. Figures for 1998 to 2007 have been provided (v) 51-60 and (vi) 61 years and over, where the underlying cause as figures for 2008 are not yet available. was (1) obesity (Table 1), (2) diabetes (Table 2), (3) an eating 1 The specified age group ’under 20’ has been amended to disorder (Table 3) or (4) a sexually transmitted infection (Table 4), ’under 21’ so as not to exclude deaths at age 20 from the table.

Table: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was obesity1, England and Wales2, 1999-20083,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Males Under21 0010100000 21-30 3402442332 31-40 12 12 10 5 13 12 15 14 20 15 41-50 8 12 17 19 16 13 18 25 28 36 51-60 11 17 24 21 17 23 31 26 35 34 61+15211819253024303247

Females Under21 0010000000 21-30 1422323358 31-40 7 11 13 14 10 9 8 15 10 17 41-50 18 12 18 18 30 22 21 23 18 30 51-60 24 17 22 22 42 39 38 41 34 43 61+615162546763728176106 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) code 278.0 (Obesity) for the years 1999-2000 and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code E66 (Obesity) for 2001 onwards. 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 4 Figures for deaths registered in 2008 are provisional. Table 2: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was diabetes1, England and Wales2, 1999-20083,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Males Under 21 3 7 26754546 21-30 21 14 18 18 17 16 19 18 15 29 31-40 54 54 55 50 57 54 37 45 33 47 41-50 84 94 104 86 90 91 106 98 75 83 51-60 230 187 237 204 205 182 180 166 153 167 61+ 2,422 2,334 2,538 2,541 2,559 2,374 2,292 2,236 2,241 2,317

Females Under21 10 3 76558675 21-30 5 14 9 13 9 12 9 16 23 17 31-40 22 43 35 49 30 28 29 32 37 20 41-50 59 45 44 57 61 56 54 55 69 66 51-60 124 119 104 128 149 115 108 122 109 101 629W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 630W

Table 2: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was diabetes1, England and Wales2, 1999-20083,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

61+ 2,915 2,848 3,001 3,029 3,124 2,908 2,799 2,691 2,667 2,683 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) code 250 (Diabetes mellitus) for the years 1999-2000 and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes E10-E14 (Diabetes mellitus) for 2001 onwards . 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 4 Figures for deaths registered in 2008 are provisional. Table 3: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was an eating disorder1, England and Wales2, 1999-20083,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Males Under 21 1 0 00100000 21-30 1 2 00110100 31-40 1 2 00000000 41-50 0 0 10010000 51-60 1 0 10000000 61+ 1010020101

Females Under21 2 2 12322301 21-30 3 1 14332035 31-40 5 4 54614423 41-50 4 6 22232657 51-60 1 4 34003022 61+ 4658333655 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes 307.1 (Anorexia nervosa), 307.S (Other and unspecified disorders of eating), 783.0 (Anorexia) and 783.6 (Polyphagia) for the years 1999-2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code P50 (Eating disorders) for 2001 onwards. 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 4 Figures for deaths registered in 2008 are provisional. Table 4: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was a sexually transmitted infection1, England and Wales2, 1999-20083,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2006 2006 2007 2008

Males Under 21 0 0 00000000 21-30 0 0 00000000 31-40 0 0 00000000 41-50 0 1 00000000 51-60 1 0 01100000 61+ 3122233001

Females Under 21 0 0 01100000 21-30 0 0 01000000 31-40 0 0 00000000 41-50 0 0 00000000 51-60 0 0 00000000 61+ 5010111002 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes 090-099 (Syphilis and other venereal diseases) for 1999-2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes A50-A64 (Infections with a predominantly sexual mode of transmission) for 2001 onwards. 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 4 Figures for deaths registered in 2008 are provisional. Table 5: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was drug poisoning1, England and Wales2, 1998-20073,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Males Under 21 157 154 120 126 125 102 73 65 71 62 21-30 680 670 611 650 598 473 455 447 425 467 631W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 632W

Table 5: Number of deaths where the underlying cause was drug poisoning1, England and Wales2, 1998-20073,4 Deaths Sex/age group 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

31-40 551 661 671 690 636 613 665 665 601 683 41-50 342 333 371 352 302 309 313 360 381 393 51-60 116 144 147 163 141 120 194 191 168 181 61+ 139 174 138 162 139 124 156 159 136 128

Females Under 21 75 74 59 58 55 49 53 56 35 21 21-30 178 185 148 162 158 137 146 115 117 96 31-40 228 191 190 205 172 192 184 198 161 165 41-50 166 180 165 184 183 182 195 218 159 176 51-60 117 125 116 118 115 127 122 127 132 113 61+ 227 219 196 223 206 195 231 161 184 155 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) for 1998-2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) from 2001 onwards. The codes for drug poisoning are shown in Box 1 below. 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 4 Figures for deaths registered in 2008 are provisional.

Box 1. International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision Fax machines are procured by individual management (ICD-9) and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes used to define drug- units, and we do not keep records of their numbers related poisoning deaths by underlying cause centrally. There would be a disproportionate cost involved Description ICD-9 ICD-10 in collecting the data. Mental and behavioural 292, 304, 305.2- F11-F16, F18-F19 Since 2003, my Department has had a policy of disorders due to drug use 305.9 installing multi-user MFDs as the main devices for (excluding alcohol and tobacco) printing, scanning and photocopying. On 17 July 2008, Accidental poisoning by E850-E858 X40-X44 the Cabinet Office launched the Greening Government drugs, medicaments and ICT Strategy. Its aim is to reduce the environmental biological substances impact of the computer systems employed by all Intentional self-poisoning E950.0-E950.5 X60-X64 Government bodies. One important target is to reduce by drugs, medicaments and the overall number of printers, photocopiers and scanners biological substances used by an organisation and replace them with multi- Assault by drugs, E962.0 X85 function devices (MFDs) where security issues allow. medicaments and biological substances Departmental Manpower Poisoning by drugs, E980.0-E980.5 Y10-Y14 medicaments and Jo Swinson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet biological substances, undetermined intent Office what percentage of employees in the Leader of the House’s Office are (a) women and (b) men; and what the average hourly pay of (i) male employees and (ii) female employees in that Office was in the latest Departmental Electronic Equipment period for which figures are available. [287120] Angela E. Smith: The staff in the office of the Leader Jenny Willott: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet of the House of Commons are part of the Cabinet Office how many (a) photocopiers, (b) scanning Office. Information on what percentage of employees in devices and (c) fax machines, excluding multi-function the Cabinet Office are (a) women and (b) men is devices, there are in (i) her Department and (ii) the published on the Office for National Statistics website Prime Minister’s Office; how many there were in each and can be found here: Office in each of the last three years; and if she will http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ make a statement. [286167] CivilService_tables_2008.xls#Table35’!A1 The Government’s evidence to the senior salaries review body provides analysis of senior civil service pay Angela E. Smith: The Cabinet Office, including the levels by gender and can be found here: Prime Minister’s Office, has used the following number http://www.ome.uk.com/downloads/ of photocopiers and scanners in past three years: SSRB%2031st%20Report%202009.pdf For staff below the senior civil service there is no Photocopiers Scanners statistical difference in average salaries of male employees May 19 16 and female employees in the Cabinet Office in the same 2009 pay band. May 19 19 Information on Cabinet Office pay bands is published 2008 on the Cabinet Office website and can be found here: May 19 21 2007 http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/about_the_cabinet_office/ working_for/paybands.aspx. 633W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 634W

Departmental Sick Leave Angela E. Smith: All Government Departments seek to ensure that their dealings with the public are as Norman Lamb: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet helpful and productive as possible. Central Government Office (1) how many staff in the Cabinet Office were on Departments are required to declare the levels of avoidable sick leave for (a) over 30 days, (b) over 50 days and telephone contact in their Departments as assessed at (c) over 100 days in each of the last five years; April 2008 and to halve these values by March 2011. [256318] The Cabinet Office has focussed its attentions on the Department for Transport (DFT), Department for Work (2) how many staff in the Cabinet Office were and Pensions, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and recorded as having been on sick leave for over NHS Direct. These Departments account for around 12 months on 31 December in each of the last five 90 per cent. of telephone contact with central Government. years. [256639] Cabinet Office is working with the remaining Departments, who will provide their baseline levels of avoidable contact Angela E. Smith: The Cabinet Office continues to later in the year. promote health and wellbeing as part of a civil service Upon publication of their avoidable contact levels, all policy to reduce absence, increase employee engagement, Departments will be required to provide quarterly updates productivity and so improve service delivery. outlining the progress they are making to achieving the The number of staff off on sick leave for (a) over March 2011 reduction target. 30 days, (b) over 50 days and (c) over 100 days is set out in the following table based on working days: Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office pursuant to the answer of 17 March 2009, 30 to 49 Days 50 to 99 days Over 100 days Official Report, column 1059W, on departmental 2004 26 26 12 standards, what performance measures in respect of avoidable contact apply to 10 Downing Street. [271945] 2005 30 23 17 2006 17 16 7 Angela E. Smith: The 2007 Service Transformation 2007 29 19 9 Agreement (STA) requires public-facing service delivery 2008 19 16 8 departments to report their levels of avoidable contact. As the Prime Minister’s Office is not a service delivery There were fewer than five members of staff off for department, it does not need to follow the STA requirement over 12 months in each of the last five years. The exact on reporting avoidable contact. However, all Government number of staff is not reported as to do so may identify Departments, and of course the Prime Minister’s Office, individual members of staff. work to ensure that their dealings with the public are as According to Cabinet Office records the absence rate helpful and productive as possible. is 5.1 days per staff year and is one of the lowest absence rates in the civil service. Ministerial Policy Advisers The Cabinet Office continue to promote health and wellbeing as part of a civil service policy to reduce Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Minister for the absence, increase employee engagement, productivity Cabinet Office how many staff based in 10 Downing and so improve service delivery. Street who advise the Prime Minister on foreign policy are not members of staff of the Foreign and The number of staff with no sick absence during the Commonwealth Office. [284027] 12 month period ending 30 September 2008 has increased by 1 per cent. Tessa Jowell [holding answer 3 July 2009]: The Prime Minister receives advice on foreign policy from the Departmental Standards Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary and his Department. The Prime Minister also has two advisers on foreign Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and defence policy and Europe and global issues. They Office what steps 10 Downing Street is taking in respect head two sections of the Cabinet Secretariat in the of Cabinet Office Departmental Strategic Objective 4 Cabinet Office which support the Prime Minister and to achieve a 50 per cent. reduction in avoidable contact the Cabinet by, where appropriate, providing co-ordinated with members of the public by 31 March 2011. advice on foreign policy issues. [270135] Pay

Angela E. Smith: All Government Departments seek Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet to ensure that their dealings with the public are as Office what the average rate of change of pay growth, helpful and productive as possible. Any contact members including bonuses, in the (a) private and (b) public of the public may wish to have with 10 Downing street sector was in the last 12 months. [287348] is not affected in any way by the requirements of departmental strategic objective 4. Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK statistics Authority. Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet I have asked the Authority to reply. Office pursuant to the answer of 17 March 2009, Letter from Karen Dunnell, July 2009: Official Report, column 1059W, on departmental As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your standards, what method her Department uses to assess recent Parliamentary Question asking for the average rate of whether its targets in respect of avoidable contact have change of pay growth, including bonuses, in the (a) private and been met. [271938] (b) public sector in the last 12 months. (287348) 635W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 636W

This information is published each month in Table IS of the United Nations’ 1993 System of National Accounts (SNA93), Labour Market Statistics Statistical Bulletin. The Table provides and for the European Union in the 1995 European System of annual growth rates based on single months and rates based on Accounts (ESA95). three monthly averages. The ONS preferred measure is the three In line with ESA 95 public sector market entities are classified monthly rate as it is less erratic. The latest information, relating to as public corporations, either within the financial corporations May 2009, was published on 15 July—the three monthly rates for sector or the non-financial corporations sector, and public sector the private sector and public sector are reproduced at the Annex. non-market entities are classified in the general government sector. The Table shows that private sector pay in the three months The borderline between market and non-market classification is ending in May was 1.9 per cent. higher than the same three dependent on whether more than fifty per cent of production months a year ago. This compares to a growth of 3.5 per cent. in costs are covered by sales. the public sector. (a) The Meteorological Office was classified as a public corporation Average Earnings Index: Three monthly growth rates, (average of the from 1996. Prior to this it was classified as central government latest three months compared to same three months a year earlier) within the general government sector. Private sector (%) Public sector (%) (b) Ordnance Survey was classified as a public corporation from 1999. Prior to this it was classified as central government June 2008 3.2 3.3 within the general government sector. July 2008 3.5 3.4 (c) Royal Mint has been classified as a public corporation from August 2008 3.4 3.5 1975. September 2008 3.1 3.9 (d) Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre was classified as a October 2008 3.2 3.8 public corporation from 1997. Prior to this it was classified to November 2008 2.9 4.0 central government within the general government sector. December 2008 2.8 4.0 In May 2009 you asked a question (271969) which related to January 2009 1.2 4.0 the definition of the Civil Service. Pursuant to this question, February 2009 -0.4 3.8 employees of the Meteorological Office, Ordnance Survey, Royal Mint and Queen Elizabeth Conference Centre are all included in March 2009 -1.1 3.6 the ONS’ estimates for the Civil Service. April 2009 0.4 3.5 Skin Cancer May 2009 1.9 3.5 Notes: 1. Based on seasonally adjusted data. Norman Lamb: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2 Excluding arrears of pay. Office how many cases of basal cell carcinoma were diagnosed in patients aged (a) under 30, (b) 31 to 60 Public Bodies and (c) over 60 years of age in each of the last 10 years. [286305] Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls Office pursuant to the Answer of 5 May 2009, Official within the responsibility of the UK statistics Authority. Report, columns 93-99W, on public bodies, for what I have asked the authority to reply. reason (a) the Met Office, (b) Ordnance Survey, Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated July 2009: (c) Royal Mint and (d) the Queen Elizabeth II Conference As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your Centre were reclassified as public corporations. [287278] recent Parliamentary Question asking how many cases of basal cell carcinoma were diagnosed in patients aged (a) under 30, (b) Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls 30 to 59 and (c) over 60 years of age in each of the last 10 years within the responsibility of the UK statistics Authority. [286305] I have asked the Authority to reply. The latest available figures for newly diagnosed cases of cancer Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated July 2009: (incidence) are for the year 2006. Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of non-melanoma skin cancer which had a cell type As National Statistician I have been asked to reply to your (morphology) identified as basal cell carcinoma, in patients aged recent Parliamentary Question asking for what reason (a) the (a) under 30, (b) 30 to 59 and (c) over 60 years from 1997 to 2006, Meteorological Office, (b) Ordnance Survey, (c) Royal Mint and aregiveninTable1. (d) the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre were reclassified as ONS has been advised by expert epidemiologists and members public corporations. (287278) of the former Steering Committee on Cancer Registration that For national accounts purposes public sector entities are classified non-melanoma skin cancer is greatly under-registered. Consequently, in line with international guidance. The guidance is set out in the the figures given are likely to be under-estimates.

Table 1: Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of non-melanoma skin cancer identified as basal cell carcinoma1 by age group: England, 1997 to 2006

Registrations

Age group 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

<30 183 185 205 187 209 213 234 209 221 210

30-59 7,236 8,265 8,282 8,674 9,445 9,537 10,052 10,396 10,575 10,747

60+ 23,255 26,725 26,914 28,311 30,009 30,425 31,765 34,185 35,680 36,440

Total 30,674 35,175 35,401 37,172 39,663 40,175 42,051 44,790 46,476 47,397

1 Cases were identified as new registrations coded to C44 (non-melanoma skin cancer) in the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) accompanied by a morphology code of M8090/3 - M8093/3 (basal cell carcinoma) in the International Classification of Diseases for Oncology, Second Revision (ICD-02). 637W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 638W

CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES Children’s Workforce Development Council

Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Building Schools for the Future Programme Children, Schools and Families what responsibilities the Children’s Workforce Development Council has for Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, (a) childcare training and (b) accreditation of Schools and Families how many schools have received childcare training schemes. [287307] Building Schools for the Future funding for ICT projects in each year since 2005; and if he will make a Dawn Primarolo: The Children’s Workforce Development statement. [286962] Council (CWDC) is a key organisation in delivery of the 2020 Children and YoungPeople’s Workforce Strategy Mr. Coaker: ICT is an integral component of Building and this includes responsibility for developing the Early Schools for the Future and accounts for approximately Years workforce. 10 per cent. of capital funding provided through that The CWDC’s work includes developing the Early programme. Funding is paid to local authorities rather YearsProfessionals Status, ensuring training and assessment than to individual schools. To date, 37 local authority is high quality, that enough candidates are recruited to projects (and 10 “early win”schemes) have signed contracts meet the Government’s aims for Early YearsProfessionals1 covering more than 200 schools. The table shows the and for the rest of the workforce to be qualified to at break down of BSF contracts which include funding for least level 3. The CWDC has also developed a new ICT services. process for the sector endorsement of Early Years Foundation Degrees which is a bridge for practitioners Number of schools from Level 3 to Early Years Professional Status.

2005 10 CWDC is not responsible for the accreditation of 2006 41 training but have a role in the approval of qualifications. 2007 51 The accreditation of qualifications for those in the 2008 46 early years workforce is the responsibility of the relevant 2009 (to July) 53 awarding organisations offering these qualifications. Total 201 However in order for qualifications to sit on the regulated framework they must receive approval from 86 of these projects have already been completed, the relevant Sector Skills Council. CWDC is part of the providing 21st century ICT facilities for over 80,000 Sector Skills Council, Skills for Care and Development young people. and responds to qualification approval requests on behalf on the early years workforce in England. The CWDC reviews qualifications to ensure they reflect current policy and the available National Occupational Standards Children: Disabled (NOS). 1 The Government aim to have an EYP in every children’s centre Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for by 2010 and in every full daycare setting by 2015. Children, Schools and Families if he will undertake a public information campaign on the rights of children Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for with disabilities. [287303] Children, Schools and Families what functions have been transferred from his Department to the Children’s Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Government are committed Workforce Development Council. [287308] to children’s rights, including disabled children’s rights, Dawn Primarolo: Since its establishment in 2005, a and to make a reality of the United Nations Convention small number of functions have been transferred to the on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) in the UK. The Children’s Workforce Development Council from the Government have funded a number of initiatives aimed Department for Children, Schools and Families. These at raising awareness of the UNCRC such as the include: development of a curriculum resource for teachers on the maintenance of the Early Years and Playwork qualifications the UNCRC to be used with key stage 3 pupils. We database, and providing a helpline for employers and individuals provide funding to UNICEF for their Rights Respecting with queries about it; Schools initiative. Training related to human rights and the endorsement of Foundation Degrees in early years, and in the UNCRC is available for a wide range of professionals Working with Young People; working with children. ownership of National Occupational Standards in Learning, We have also been working closely with the national Development and Support Services; strategies to develop new and innovative ways of raising maintaining and updating managers’ and practitioners’ guidance awareness of schools’ responsibilities under the Disability and training materials on the Common Assessment Framework, Discrimination Act 2005. Work so far has included: Lead Professional, and updating the Common Assessment workshops at conferences that have had a specific focus Form itself. on schools’ duties and we have also hosted an online Educational Visits: National Curriculum Tests discussion on the Guardian education website. Ministers have also highlighted the importance of schools’ compliance Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for with the disability discrimination legislation in speeches. Children, Schools and Families what representations We are currently discussing with the national strategies he has received in respect of the cancellation of school what else can be done to further raise awareness of excursions arising from the proposed scheduling of schools’ duties. Key Stage 2 standard assessment tests in June. [287147] 639W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 640W

Mr. Coaker: Key Stage 2 tests in 2010 will be administered Mr. Coaker: The information on school based between 10 and 14 May as planned; schools will not expenditure per pupil and combined local authority need to cancel school excursions in 2010 as a result of and school based expenditure per pupil from 1996-97 to the scheduling of Key Stage 2 tests. 2007-08 is contained within the following tables. The Government have accepted the Expert Group on The Learning and Skills Council is responsible for Assessment’s recommendation that National Curriculum funding schools sixth forms and FE and sixth form Key Stage 2 tests should be administered in the middle colleges. I will ask the LSC’s chief executive, Geoff of June, rather than in May. Having taken account of Russell, to write to my hon. Friend with the information QCA and Ofqual’s advice, we will seek to implement requested for sixth form students in schools in York and the Expert Group’s recommendation on moving the York College. test to mid June in 2011. GCSE £ cash terms

Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Pre- primary Children, Schools and Families how many schools in and Combined which (a) five, (b) 10, (c) 15 and (d) 20 per cent. of Primary primary Secondary LA and pupils received three or more fixed term exclusions had school school school school less than 30 per cent. of pupils gain five GCSEs based based based based including English and mathematics at grades A* to C expenditure expenditure expenditure expenditure per pupil per pupil per pupil per pupil in each year since 2005. [282728] Mr. Coaker: The information requested can be provided 1996-97 4— 1,540 2,210 2,500 only at disproportionate cost. 1997-9814— 1,600 2,350 2,590 Implementation Review Unit 1998-9914— 1,730 2,460 2,690

Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, 1999- 1,760 1,800 2,430 2,710 Schools and Families with reference to paragraph 5.13, 20002,3 page 74, of his Department’s publication, Your child, your schools, our future, what funding his Department 2000-01 1,860 1,870 2,640 2,850 has allocated to the Implementation Review Unit in 2001-02 2,180 2,260 2,830 3,130 2009-10. [286890] Mr. Coaker: The Implementation Review Unit (IRU) was established in 2003 with a specific remit to advise 2002-03 2,390 4— 3,080 3,270 the Department on reducing bureaucracy in schools. The Department has allocated £250,000 to the IRU for 2003-04 2,560 4— 3,330 3,740 2009-10. This will cover the costs of the review of 2004-05 2,680 4— 3,660 3,900 barriers to delivery in schools as outlined in “Your st child, your schools, our future: building the 21 century 2005-06 2,930 4— 3,860 4,180 schools system” as well as all expenditure related to IRU meetings and other research relating to burdens 2006-07 3,140 4— 3,970 4,400 and bureaucracy in schools. 2007-08 3,290 4— 4,190 4,810 Mathematics: Primary Education £ real terms (2008-09 prices) Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Pre- Schools and Families how much his Department spent primary on the National Strategies advertisements, Ensuring and Combined progression in primary mathematics, in June and July Primary primary Secondary LA and school school school school 2009; and if he will make a statement. [286562] based based based based expenditure expenditure expenditure expenditure Mr. Coaker: The cost was £3,358. The guidance identified per pupil per pupil per pupil per pupil in the advert is designed to help teachers understand key learning that children need to secure to attain level 4 1996-97 4— 2,050 2,940 3,320 in mathematics. Alerting teachers to valuable free resources 1997-9814— 2,070 3,050 3,350 in this manner has generated strong demand at relatively 1998-9914— 2,190 3,130 3,420 little cost and represents value for money. 1999- 2,190 2,240 3,030 3,370 20002,3 Pupils: Per Capita Costs 2000-01 2,280 2,300 3,250 3,500 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001-02 2,620 2,710 3,400 3,760 Children, Schools and Families how much has been spent on average per child on (a) (i) pre-school, 2002-03 2,780 4— 3,590 3,810 (ii) primary school and (iii) 11 to 16 year-old secondary 2003-04 2,890 4— 3,770 4,230 school pupils in schools in York and (b) sixth form 2004-05 2,960 4— 4,030 4,300 students in (A) schools in York and (B) York College in 2005-06 3,170 4— 4,170 4,520 (1) cash and (2) real terms in each year since 1996-97. 2006-07 3,290 4— 4,170 4,620 [285781] 2007-08 3,360 4— 4,280 4,910 641W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 642W

Mr. Coaker: The following is a summary of the 1 Combined local authority and school based expenditure includes all expenditure on the education of children in local authority maintained research evidence referred to in the first sentence of establishments and pupils educated by the authority other than in paragraph 2.25 of “Yourchild, your schools, our future, maintained establishments. This includes both school based expenditure building a 21st century schools system”: and all elements of central LA expenditure except youth and community and capital expenditure from revenue (CERA). Pupil figures include Summary of research evidence on the importance of high all pre-primary pupils, including those under 5s funded by the authority quality teaching and teachers: and being educated in private settings (only available from 1999-2000), pupils educated in maintained mainstream schools and any other 1. Having high quality teachers and teaching is essential local authority maintained pupils. All pupil numbers are adjusted to to the achievement of whole-school success. Improvements be on a financial year basis. in teaching have been facilitated by organisational factors, 2 Spending in 1997-98 reflects the transfer of monies from local for example, careful recruitment, quality assurance schemes, government to central Government for the nursery vouchers scheme. These were returned to local government from 1998-99. support for teachers to focus on teaching and sharing of 3 Figures prior to 1999-00 exclude any expenditure on service, strategy good practice (Rudd et al., 2002). and regulation. 4 Denotes figures are not available or have not been scored on a 2. Barber and Mourshed (2007) at McKinsey and consistent basis. Company, argued that the biggest driver of variation in Notes: pupil learning is teacher effectiveness and present a 1. The expenditure data to 1998-99 are drawn from the annual ‘R01’ strong argument for focusing on recruiting high quality spending returns which local authorities submitted to the former teachers in order to raise attainment of pupils. In particular, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (ODPM) (now CLG). Figures they refer to a US study by Sanders and Rivers (1996) for 1999-2000 to 2001-02 are drawn from Section 52 (Table 3) Outturn statements which local authorities submitted to the then DFES (now that showed that two average eight-year-old pupils placed DCSF). Figures for 2002-03 onwards are taken from Section 52 with different teachers diverged in their performance by (Table A) Outturn statements. The change in sources is marked by an more than 50 percentile points within three years. However, empty row. this study needs to be treated with caution as the 2. School based expenditure includes only expenditure incurred directly research was conducted in a small number of schools. by local authority maintained schools. This includes the pay of teachers and school-based support staff, school premises costs, books 3. Slater et al. (2009) estimated the effect of individual and equipment, and certain other supplies and services, less any teachers on pupil outcomes, and the variability of teacher capital items funded from recurrent spending and income from sales, fees and charges and rents and rates. This excludes the central cost of quality, which they refer to as teacher’s impact on test support services such as home to school transport, local authority scores. They used a unique primary dataset linking over administration and the financing of capital expenditure. The pupil 7,000 pupils, their exam results and prior attainment to data are drawn from the DCSF Annual Schools Census adjusted to be the individual teachers who taught them. They found on a financial year basis. that a high quality teacher (75th percentile) compared to 3. From 2002-03 onwards the school based expenditure calculation is th broadly similar to the calculation in previous years. However, 2001-02 a low quality teacher (25 percentile) can add 0.425 of and earlier years includes all premature retirement compensation a GCSE point per subject to a given pupil, or 25 per (PRC) and Crombie payments, mandatory PRC payments and other cent. of the standard deviation of GCSE points. This indirect employee expenses, while from 2002-03 only the schools further demonstrates the importance of having effective element of these categories is included. In 2001-02 this accounted for teachers. approximately £70 per pupil of the England total, while the schools element of these categories accounted for approximately £50 per Summary of research evidence suggesting that pupils pupil of the England total in 2002-03. Also, for some LAs, expenditure from deprived backgrounds are less likely to experience that had previously been attributed to the school sectors was reported within the LA part of the form from 2002-03 and would therefore be good quality teaching: excluded from the school based expenditure calculation, though this 1. There is evidence to suggest that pupils from is not quantifiable from existing sources. 4. Expenditure was distinguished between the pre-primary and primary deprived backgrounds may be less likely to experience sector until the inception of Section 52 for the 1999-00 financial year. good quality teaching. Sammons et al. (2006), in an Consequently we have provided a combined figure for pre-primary analysis of teaching practice in 125 year 5 classes, found and primary schools for 1996-97 to 2001-02 financial years. that the quality of teaching tended to be poorer in 5. 1999-2000 saw a change in data source when the data collection schools with higher levels of pupils eligible for FSM. moved from the R01 form collected by the ODPM to the Section 52 Differences were apparent in areas such as basic skills form from the DCSF. 2002-03 saw a further break in the time series following the introduction of Consistent Financial Reporting (CFR) development, depth of subject knowledge, social support to schools and the associated restructuring of the outturn tables. for learning, pupil engagement and classroom routines. 6. Secondary school based expenditure includes all expenditure incurred Cabinet Office (2008a) cited evidence that teachers in directly by local authority maintained secondary schools. It is not schools with more than 20 per cent. FSM eligibility possible from existing sources to distinguish this expenditure between were more likely to be rated worse in their teaching, and expenditure on 11 to 16-year-olds and expenditure on 6th form pupils attending maintained secondary schools. less likely to have come from an outstanding teacher 7. The expenditure data for 1999-2000 onwards reflect the return of training institution. Furthermore, Thrupp and Lupton grant maintained schools to local authority maintenance. (2006) reported that unchallenging work was evident 8. Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. As reported by York local among schools with deprived intakes. authority as at 10 July 2009. 9. Cash figures are converted to 2008-09 prices using the 30 June 2009 2. Also, secondary schools with higher proportions Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflators. of pupils eligible for FSM have, on average, teachers with lower levels of qualifications than other schools. Schools Charles et al. (2007) found that schools in the higher FSM quintiles had fewer teachers with degrees in the Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, subject they taught, compared with schools in the lower Schools and Families with reference to paragraph 2.25, FSM quintiles. This was true for most subjects analysed, page 32 of his Department’s publication, Your child, with the exception of ICT and design and technology, your schools, our future, what is the research evidence in which teacher qualifications were higher in schools referred to. [286886] with higher proportions of FSM. 643W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 644W

References: Children’s Centres (£ million) Barber, M. and Mourshed, M. (2007). “How the worlds best performing school systems come out on top”. McKinsey and 1999-2005 4.8 Company. 2005-06 3.2 Cabinet Office (2008a). “Getting on, getting ahead. A discussion 2006-07 5.0 paper: analysing the trends and drivers of social mobility”. 2007-08 2.1 http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/66447/gettingon.pdf 2008-11 1.3 Charles, M., Marsh, A., Milne, A., Morris, C., Scott, E. and Shamsan, Y. (2007). “Secondary School Curriculum and Staffing A breakdown for the years 1999 to 2005 is not Survey 2007”. DCSF RR026. available as the funding was provided as a single capital http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/research/data/uploadfiles/DCSF- allocation through the Sure Start Local Programme. RR026.pdf Please note the total allocation for the current spending Rudd, P., Aiston, S., Davies, D., Rickinson, M. and Dartnall, L. period (2008-11) has been provided as the 2008-09 (2002). “Performance gains in Specialist Schools: What makes the audited spend data are not yet available. difference?” NFER. Sammons, P.,Taggart, B., Siraj-Blatchford, I., Sylva, K., Melhuish, Schools: Standards E., Barreau, S. and Manni, L. (2006). “EPPE: Summary report: variations in Teacher and Pupil Behaviours in Year 5 Classes”. DfES RR817. Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/research/data/uploadfiles/RR817.pdf Schools and Families with reference to paragraph 3.3, page 44 of his Department’s publication, Your child, Slater, H., Davies, N. and Burgess, S. (2009). “Do teachers matter? Measuring teacher effectiveness in England”. Centre for Market your schools, our future, if he will publish the data and Public Organisations (CMPO), Working Paper 09/212. supporting his statement that children educated at Thrupp, M. and Lupton, R. (2006). Taking school contexts more schools which operate in a form of partnership achieve seriously: the social justice challenge. “British Journal of Educational better results. [286888] Studies”, 54(3), 308-328. Mr. Coaker: The statement in paragraph 3.3 of “Your st Schools: Sandwell child, your schools, our future, building a 21 century schools system” that children educated at schools which operate in a form of partnership offer enhanced Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for opportunities to children and achieve better results is Children, Schools and Families how much capital based on published evidence. spending there was on (a) schools and (b) children’s centres in Sandwell in each of the last 20 years. Atkinson et al. (2007) conducted a literature review of inter-school collaboration1, which synthesises and [286380] extracts common characteristics of how partnerships can be effective, and gives an overview of the ways Mr. Coaker: The information is as follows. partnerships can work. They listed 17 recent initiatives (a) Support for capital investment in schools in that involve collaborations (for example Diversity Pathfinder Sandwell is shown in the table. Information prior to Initiative; Beacon Schools scheme; and extended services 1996-97 is not held centrally. schools). 1 The review focused on 39 studies from 1997 onwards. Schools (£ million) Atkinson et al. (2007) report gains for school, school 1996-97 3.4 staff and pupils taking part in inter-school collaboration 1997-98 5 Gains for the school: 1998-99 3.4 economic advantages (for example sharing of resources, accessing 1999-2000 4.6 new funding streams and economies of scale); 1 2000-01 27.3 school improvement and raised standards, including improvements 2001-02 10.2 in pupil attainment (for example from an enhanced curriculum 2002-03 20.4 and development of teacher expertise); 2003-04 20.2 the forging of closer relationships between participating schools 2004-05 20 and from this outcome, a greater awareness and understanding 2005-06 17.6 of other schools; and 2006-07 16.7 it was said that bringing schools together can break down 2007-08 15 barriers so that they can work together in a mutually beneficial way. 2008-09 14.1 1 Includes a PFI project of £17 million Gains for school staff: In addition, Sandwell has a Building Schools for the opportunities to exchange ideas and good practice; Future (BSF) wave 3 project with an indicative allocation new opportunities for training and professional development; of £137.2 million of conventional funding and £62.9 million and of PFI credits. an enriched support network (a larger number of colleagues available to discuss concerns and issues) which reduced a sense Sandwell has a further BSF wave 5 project at planning of professional isolation, which could lead to an increase in stage. Allocations have also been made for traditionally staff confidence, motivation and morale. procured academies of £24.4 million in 2002-03 and Gains for pupils: £57 million in 2006-07. enjoyed an enhanced educational experience (for example better (b) Support for capital investment on Children’s choice of subjects, access to specialist teaching i.e. more personalised Centres in Sandwell is shown in the table. learning, and opportunities for out-of-school excursions); 645W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 646W

improved attainment was also reported; With National Strategies, the Department has conducted increased social opportunities from interacting with pupils a series of visits to local authorities designed to identify from other schools; the factors behind why some authorities are able to where these pupils came from different backgrounds (for example maintain low rates of SEN exclusions, while others have faiths and cultures) there was also the possibility of increasing higher rates. awareness and understanding of different lifestyles; and National Strategies will publish the outcomes of these where partnerships existed between primary and secondary visits in autumn 2009. schools, increased contact was said to make the transition much easier for pupils moving on to secondary school. The Department has asked the National Strategies to A report published by the National College of School support and challenge the highest excluding authorities Leadership (2008) entitled “Schools leading schools: (including authorities where SEN exclusions are the power and potential of National Leaders of Education” disproportionately high) to reduce the need for exclusion, highlights the following successes in relation to the and to spread good practice from the lower excluding National Leaders of Education (NLE) programme: authorities from summer term 2009. The findings from the visits will inform this work. By July 2008, NLEs had supported 19 schools to be removed from special measures or have NTI withdrawn. Findings from the visits will also feedback in Ofsted GCSE results in 2008 show marked improvement in schools in SEN survey 2009-10 that will focus on the Every Child which NLEs have worked for one year or more. Matters outcomes achieved by children with special Independent evaluation reports commissioned by NCSL over educational needs and disabled children. the two years the NLE programme has developed have found the NLE programme to be effective in selecting, appointing and Mr. Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for deploying NLEs, in delivering improvements and in removing schools from Ofsted categories. Children, Schools and Families when he next expects to revise his Department’s guidance to schools on pupil NCSL Schools Leading Schools report states that “there is a clear association between NLE intervention and improved results”. exclusions; and what his policy is on holding a case review before children with a special educational need References: or disability is excluded. [286871] Atkinson, M., Springate, I., Johnson, F. and Halsey, K. (2007). “Inter-school collaboration: A literature review”. NFER. National College of School Leadership (2008) “Schools leading Mr. Coaker: Existing exclusions guidance already schools: the power and potential of National Leaders of Education”. contains strong messages on special educational needs (SEN) exclusion issues. The existing version of this Social Workers guidance, last revised in September 2008, states that schools should try every practicable means to maintain Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for a pupil with SEN in school, seeking local authority and Children, Schools and Families how many full-time other professional advice as appropriate. It goes on to children’s social workers there are in (a) Middlesbrough state that this might include seeking local authority and South and East Cleveland constituency, (b) Teesside, other professional advice at “School Action Plus”, or (c) the North East and (d) England. [282904] where appropriate, asking a local authority to consider carrying out a statutory assessment. Dawn Primarolo: Detailed information on all staff, In addition, the guidance sets an expectation that, including children’s social workers, directly employed following a permanent exclusion, the head teacher should by social services departments is collected by the use the period between his or her initial decision and the Department of Health (DH) through the Personal Social meeting of the governing body to review the exclusion Services staff of Social Services Departments return and to work with the local authority to see whether (SSDS001). Since 2004-05 the return has been the more support can be made available or whether the responsibility of the NHS Information Centre for health statement can be changed to name a new school. If and social care. This data has been published on an either of these options is possible, the head teacher annual basis with breakdown by local authority available should normally withdraw the exclusion. in the supporting annexes published alongside each We will also be reinforcing the focus of behaviour report. and attendance partnerships on a range of outcomes, Reports published from 2006 onwards are available including the need to reduce disproportionately high on the NHS Information Centre website here: exclusions of pupils with SEN in a new guidance due to http://www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/social- be published later this year. care/childrens-social-care Specialised Diplomas Special Educational Needs: Pupil Exclusions

Mr. Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Children, Schools and Families when he expects to Schools and Families how many pupils he expects to publish the findings of his research into local authority enrol on a diploma course in each subject in September practice on exclusions for children with special 2009; and if he will make a statement. [286958] educational needs. [286870] Mr. Iain Wright: It is too soon to say how many Mr. Coaker: The Department is working with the pupils will be enrolled on a Diploma course from this National Strategies and local authorities to identify September. Youngpeople are still making choices about good practice among authorities with low rates of exclusion which course to study and will do so in part based upon of children with SEN. examination results to be published in August. 647W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 648W

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT members of the public and other stakeholders: details of some of these can be accessed via the Department’s Council Housing: Standards Information Asset Register at: http://www.communties.gov.uk/corporate/foi/cornmunities- Ms Keeble: To ask the Secretary of State for lgps/asset-register/ Communities and Local Government (1) how many These are required for the purposes of conducting its and what percentage of the housing stock in each local business and implementing its policy agenda. The personal authority did not meet the Decent Homes Standard on data involved are mainly contact details for stakeholders the latest date for which figures are available; [287310] who have been consulted on issues relating to departmental (2) what percentage of housing stock in each local business and expressed a wish to be kept informed on authority did not meet the Decent Homes Standard in policy developments, although some databases are more each of the last five years. [287311] specialised. In the case of the majority of the databases the data collection is recent, and whenever new databases Mr. Ian Austin: A set of tables containing the information are set up steps are taken to ensure that they are requested has been placed in the Library. compliant with the Data Protection Act. Departmental Data Protection New databases containing personal data are set up as and when policy development and implementation of policy dictate the operational need for them. It is not Mr. Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for possible to plan or predict which areas of business or Communities and Local Government how many policy will require the setting up of a database up to five breaches of information security there have been at years ahead. (a) his Department and (b) its agencies in the last five years. [281067] Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers Mr. Malik: In the five years to 31 March 2009, there Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for have been four breaches of information security at Communities and Local Government (1) how many Communities and Local Government. policy advisers work for the Minister for Housing and The Department and its agencies report all significant Planning; [286643] personal data security breaches to the Cabinet Office (2) what the job (a) title and (b) description is of and the ICO. Information on personal data security each policy adviser, other than special advisers, who breaches are published on annual basis in the Department’s has been recruited by his Department in the last six annual resource accounts as was announced in the Data months. [286684] Handling Review published on 25 June 2008. Additionally, all significant control weaknesses including Mr. Malik: All civil servants in the Department provide other significant security breaches are included in the policy advice to Ministers as necessary. Specialist staff Statement of Internal Control which is published within are from time to time recruited on a time-limited basis the annual resource accounts. to provide additional expertise and capacity as required. This answer does not include the Government Office for the English Regions which carry out work for 10 Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards Government Departments. Dr. Stoate: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Databases Communities and Local Government what guidance his Department (a) has issued and (b) plans to issue Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for to local planning authorities on planning applications Communities and Local Government (1) what for housing and schools located close to high voltage categories of personal information on members of the overhead power lines. [286726] public are contained on each database which contains such data managed by his Department and its agencies; Mr. Ian Austin: The Stakeholder Advisory Group on when each category of information was first collected; Extremely Low Frequency Electromagnetic Fields (SAGE) and if he will make a statement; [284894] published a report in April 2007 which made a number (2) what databases managed by his Department and of recommendations to Government on ways to reduce its agencies hold personal information on members of people’s exposure to extremely low frequency the public; on what date each such database became electromagnetic fields (ELF EMF). The Government operational; and if he will make a statement; [285983] are currently finalising their response to the SAGE (3) which of the planned databases that will be report. managed by his Department or one of its agencies and which will hold personal information on members of Housing Revenue Accounts the public are expected to become operational in each of the next five years; and if he will make a statement. Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for [286143] Communities and Local Government what the level of housing revenue account subsidy was for each local Mr. Malik: Detailed information pertaining to all authority in 2009-10. [287113] databases holding personal information in both CLG and its Government Office network is not held centrally. Mr. Ian Austin: It is too early as yet to say what the Communities and Local Government holds a variety of individual subsidy position for each authority will be in databases, including some containing personal data of 2009-10 as their first subsidy claims for that year do not 649W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 650W reflect factors that impact on subsidy entitlement, such Mr. Ian Austin: This information is not collected by as major repairs allowances brought forward from 2010-11 Communities and Local Government. to 2009-10. Islam Housing: Greater London Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what support his Communities and Local Government how many Department is giving to the independent Mosques and (a) homeless, (b) statutorily overcrowded, (c) medical Imams National Advisory Board to raise standards in priority and (d) family quota households are on each mosques; what objectives have been set for such London local authority housing waiting list. [284717] standards; and how much his Department has budgeted for such support activities. [286106] Mr. Ian Austin: This information is not held centrally. Mr. Malik: The Department for Communities and Housing: Low Incomes Local Government provided support to the independent Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board (MINAB). Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for MINAB are a community-led organisation and we Communities and Local Government what the average supported them to develop standards for mosques, which market value was of a property designated as being were widely consulted on and piloted. In addition, we available under the (a) HomeBuy Direct, (b) New supported the development of their operational plan Build HomeBuy, (c) Rent to HomeBuy and (d) First- and their first Annual General Meeting. time Buyers Initiative in each of the last three years. We allocated the following sums to MINAB: £75,600 [285964] in 2007-08; £116,000 in 2008-09; and £58,000 between April and June 2009. John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Further information about MINAB, including their given to him by the right hon. Member for Derby South five standards, can be found on their website: Official Report, (Margaret Beckett) on 19 May 2009, www.minab.org.uk column 1352W and the answer he was given by the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr. Wright) on 5 May 2009, Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Official Report, column 137W. Communities and Local Government how many In 2006-07 the average price of property designated Radical Middle Way (a) roadshows and (b) other as available under the NewBuild HomeBuy scheme was events have taken place in the UK and overseas since £163,460. Data for 2008-09 is not yet available from the 2007; where they have taken place; what the cost of Continuous Recording (CORE) returns to the Tenant each has been; what assessment has been made of the Services Authority from Registered Social Landlords. outcome of each event; and for what dates future such shows have been scheduled. [286107] Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what budget his Mr. Malik: From October 2007 to June 2008 the Department initially set for 2009-10 for (a) HomeBuy RMW held a total of 34 road show events and a Direct, (b) OwnHome, (c) OpenMarket HomeBuy, number of other formal and informal meetings with (d) the First Time Buyers Initiative, (e) MyChoice domestic and international scholars and speakers in the HomeBuy, (f) New Build HomeBuy, (g) Social following locations: HomeBuy and (h) Rent to HomeBuy. [286010] London; Luton; Leicester; Birmingham; Liverpool; Bradford; Peterborough; Milton Keynes; Woking; and Manchester. John Healey: We have not set individual budgets for CLG and FCO provided funding of £250,000 to the each HomeBuy scheme to ensure flexibility within the project in 2007-08 to support the programme of events Homes and Communities Agency’s programme. including support for the RMW website (£12,000) and external evaluation. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what target has From June 2008 to May 2009 the RMW held a total been set for the number of new affordable homes to be of 48 road show events and a number of formal and built in each region in (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11; informal meetings with domestic and international scholars how many he expects to be built in each region in each and speakers in the following locations: of those years; and how many he expects to be available Blackburn; Bradford; Cambridge; London; Birmingham; for social rent in each case. [287305] Peterborough; Hounslow; High Wycombe; Leicester; Manchester; Milton Keynes; Slough; Derby; Bristol; Rochdale. Mr. Ian Austin: I refer the hon. Member to the answer CLG has provided funding of £350,000 to the project I gave him on 8 July 2009, Official Report, column to support the programme of events. This also included 905W. support for the RMW website and an external evaluation. RMW held their first international road show to Housing: Overcrowding Sudan in April 2009, reaching an estimated 25,000 people through six large public events. The FCO provided Ms Keeble: To ask the Secretary of State for £70,000 to support this road show and the RMW are Communities and Local Government what the performance planning further pilot road shows in Sudan, Indonesia of each local authority against statutory overcrowding and Pakistan by end October. The pilot phase of the standard for housing was in the latest period for which international project will be evaluated by an independent figures are available. [287390] company. 651W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 652W

The RMW project is subject to an independent external I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the evaluation following each phase. Communities and Local hon. Member for Rochdale (Paul Rowen) on 7 July, Government are currently in the process of determining Official Report, column 835. The final details about the the future direction of this particular work stream in its allocation and distribution of LABGI funds in 2009-10 domestic context. and 2010-11 are currently being discussed with Treasury Ministers and an announcement will be made in the Islam: Faith Schools next few weeks. Records are not kept centrally of how local authorities Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for spend LABGI funding. The grants are not ring-fenced Communities and Local Government which community and it is for local authorities to decide how the money is based organisations are involved in the development of best spent. citizenship education in mosque schools; and where Local Government Finance each such organisation is based. [286108]

Mr. Malik: The organisation that is leading this Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State project is the School Development Support Agency for Communities and Local Government what plans he based in Leicester. has to allow councils to keep (a) receipts from Right to Buy sales and (b) income from rents from council The SDSA instituted an Advisory Group with housing. [286565] representation from various community based organisations. They include the following: Mr. Ian Austin: We announced in June that councils Ahul Bayt Foundation (London) can keep capital receipts and rent income from any Al-Khoei Foundation (London) newly built council homes supported by Social housing Al Mahdi Institute (Birmingham) grant or funded with the authorities’ own resources. In British Muslim Forum (National) addition we are currently considering whether there are Building Bridges (Pendle) other types of council housing on which capital receipts Citizenship Foundation (London) and rents should be retained. ContinYou (Coventry) My right hon. Friend the Minister for Housing’s Islamic Foundation (Markfield, Leicestershire) statement on 30 June 2009 also announced our intention to reform the council housing finance subsidy system Karimia Institute (Nottingham) and that we will be consulting on our proposals before Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board (National) the summer recess. This consultation will include a Muslim College (London) proposal to allow councils to keep all the capital receipts Muslim Council of Britain (National) from right to buy, and income from rents. National Muslim Women Advisory Group (National) Local Government Finance: York NIDA Education Trust (London) Sufi Muslim Council (Rochdale) Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much Local Authority Business Growth Incentives Scheme general revenue funding has been allocated to City of York unitary authority in each year since 1996-97. Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for [285705] Communities and Local Government how much funding was allocated under the Local Authority Ms Rosie Winterton: The following table shows the Business Growth Incentive Scheme to local authorities increases for the City of York in formula grant for each in (a) 2008-09, (b) 2009-10 and (c) 2010-11; and how year from 1998-99 onwards on a like-for-like basis, i.e. much such funding has been (i) distributed to and (ii) after adjusting for changes in function and funding. spent by each local authority in each such year. [285731] Prior years Current adjusted year’s Ms Rosie Winterton: In 2008-09, £396 million in Formula Formula Grant2 Grant Change Change LABGI grants was allocated and distributed to local (£ million) (£ million) (£ million) (percentage) authorities, in respect of business growth in 2007-08. Details of how this funding was distributed are set out 1998-99: 80.691 80.541 -0.150 -0.2 in the relevant Grant Determinations, which can be 1999-2000: 80.541 84.473 3.932 4.9 viewed on the Communities and Local Government 2000-01: 84.473 87.978 3.505 4.1 website at: 2001-02: 87.529 90.330 2.801 3.2 Grant Determination No 2 (2008) [No 31/1238] 2002-03: 86.030 91.050 5.019 5.8 http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/labgi/ Amended 95.109 99.890 4.781 5.0 seconddtmn0708.pdf 2003-04: Amended 96.364 102.518 6.154 6.4 Grant Determination No2 (2009) [No 31/1287] 2004-05: http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/labgi/ Amended 103.678 108.820 5.142 5.0 contingency/dtmn.pdf 2005-06: Paper copies of the above have been sent to the 2006-0f: 35.965 37.151 1.187 3.3 Member and copies have been deposited in the Commons 2007-08: 36.950 38.343 1.392 3.8 Library. 2008-09: 41.041 42.366 1.325 3.2 653W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 654W

Mr. Malik: The Community Development Foundation Prior years Current adjusted year’s received £1,736,990 in 2007-08 and £1,645,000 in 2008-09 Formula Formula from the Department for Communities and Local Grant2 Grant Change Change Government to fund the activities of nine independent (£ million) (£ million) (£ million) (percentage) Regional Empowerment Partnerships. For the current 2009-10: 42.321 43.480 1.160 2.7 year 2009-10, Community Development Foundation has been allocated £1,715,000 to continue this support. 2010-11 43.463 44.571 1.108 2.5 provisional: 1 The prior year’s formula grant is adjusted for changes in function Registered Social Landlords and funding to enable a like-for-like comparison. 2 Formula Grant comprises Revenue Support Grant, redistributed business rates, principal formula Police Grant, SSA Reduction Grant Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for (SSA Review), SSA Reduction Grant (Police Funding Review) and Communities and Local Government (1) how many Central Support Protection Grant where appropriate. injunctions have been (a) sought and (b) obtained 3 Prior to 2006-07 support for schools was paid through formula under section 13 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003 grant. In 2006-07 funding for schools transferred to the Dedicated Schools Grant. in each local authority area in each of the last three years; [280262] The amount of formula grant an authority receives each year is not directly comparable due to changes in (2) how many injunctions have been (a) sought and funding and functions. For example, prior to 2006-07 (b) obtained under section 153A of the Housing Act funding for schools was included within formula grant; 1996 by landlords in each local authority area in each from 2006-07 onwards funding for schools was provided of the last three years; [280263] by the Dedicated Schools Grant. For this reason, we (3) how many injunctions have been (a) sought and therefore adjust the prior year’s formula grant, for (b) obtained under section 222 of the Local comparison purposes only, so that it reflects the notional Government Act 1972 by each local authority in each amount of formula grant an authority would have of the last three years. [280264] received in that year had we been financing the same services as in the current year. Mr. Ian Austin: Registered social landlords owning The Department only holds data on year-on-year and/or managing 1,000 or more units/bed spaces obtained changes in formula grant on a like-for-like basis from the following number of injunctions under Section 153 1997-98. This is because it only became necessary to A of the Housing Act 1996, inserted by Section 13 of make these calculations when guarantees were introduced the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, between April 2005 that formula grant would not go down from one year to and March 2008: the next. Number Planning Permission 2005-06 744 Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 2006-07 1,045 for Communities and Local Government whether he 2007-08 1,319 plans to grant planning powers to (a) regional development agencies, (b) local authority leaders’ Data are not yet available for 2008-09 and the data boards and (c) economic prosperity boards. [286516] collected cannot be broken down by local authority area. Data are not available for smaller registered social Mr. Ian Austin: Under the terms of the Local Democracy, landlords. Data are not yet available on injunctions Economic Development and Construction Bill, obtained by local authority landlords under Section Government are to give joint responsibility for a regional 153 A of the Housing Act 1996 nor by local authorities strategy to (a) the regional development agencies and under Section 222 of the Local Government Act 1972. (b) local authorities’ leaders’ boards in each English region outside of London. These bodies will therefore No data are available on injunctions sought but not have joint responsibility for plan-making at regional obtained. level. It is up to local authorities to set out the functions Rents: Private Sector that they wish to pass to an EPB across their area. They may decide that their EPB should play a part in spatial Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for planning—most likely through co-operation in the Communities and Local Government what the average production of local development frameworks. It is very private sector rent was in each region of England in unlikely that local authorities would propose ceding the (a) 2001-02, (b) 2002-03, (c) 2003-04, (d) 2004-05, power to make particular planning decisions to an EPB (e) 2005-06, (f) 2006-07, (g) 2007-08 and (h) and also unlikely that the Secretary of State would 2008-09. [287689] agree to such an arrangement, as the Government wish the link between planning decisions and direct local Mr. Ian Austin: Estimates of the mean rent for private democratic accountability to be maintained. tenancies by region for the period 1995-96 and 1996-97 Regional Planning and Development to 2006-07 and 2007-08 are available in Housing Statistics live table 734 Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ Communities and Local Government how much funding 141656.xls his Department has allocated to regional empowerment These estimates are based on data from the Survey of partnerships in the last three years. [286578] English Housing. 655W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 656W

Shared Ownership Schemes HEALTH

Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Aerials: Health Hazards Communities and Local Government how many shared ownership purchases were made in (a) London Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) England by people registered on housing Health what monitoring and reviewing of the evidence waiting lists in each year since 2000; and what of the symptoms of radio frequency radiation the proportion of all such sales this represented in each Health Protection Agency has undertaken in the last such year. [284718] five years; and if he will make a statement. [285575] Mr. Ian Austin: The following table shows the number of shared ownership completions made in London and Gillian Merron [holding answer 9 July 2009]: The England by people on housing waiting lists, and as a Health Protection Agency (HPA) carries out research percentage of total shared ownership sales. on radiofrequency radiation, monitors other studies, and conducts comprehensive reviews of the scientific London England evidence. The independent Advisory Group on Non- Ionising Radiation (AGNIR) also prepares reviews for Number of Percentage Number of Percentage sales of sales sales of sales the HPA of the evidence for health effects. AGNIR published a review of health effects in relation to radio 2000-01 550 53 1,360 36 waves in 2003 (see documents of the NRPB, volume 14, 2001-02 540 47 1,310 32 number 2: “Health Effects from Radiofrequency 2002-03 630 50 1,620 36 Electromagnetic Fields: Report of an independent Advisory 2003-04 760 49 1,830 38 Group on Non-ionising Radiation”), and the HPA in 2004-05 1,170 51 2,830 45 2004 (see documents of the NRPB, volume 15, number 3: 2005-06 820 35 2,910 38 “Review of the Scientific Evidence for Limiting Exposure 2006-07 1,040 37 3,620 34 to Electromagnetic Fields (0-300 GHz)”). These publications Source: are both available on the HPA website. AGNIR is CORE (Continuous Recording) returns to the Tenant Services Authority commencing another review of the health effects of (TSA) from Registered Social Landlords (RSLs) radio wave exposures, which is expected to take two to CORE data only records data from RSLs with at three years to complete. least 250 units or bed spaces, so the figures above may A copy of the report “Report 2007” from the be underestimates if not all RSLs are included. Also independently managed Mobile Telecommunications not all CORE data is compulsory for RSLs to complete, and Health Research Programme (MTHR), funded by and details on whether sales were made to people on government and industry, has been placed in the Library. LA waiting lists was missing in approximately 20 per None of the studies completed demonstrated that biological cent. of returns. or adverse health effects are produced by radiofrequency Details on whether shared ownership sales were made exposure from mobile phones or base stations. Further to people on LA waiting lists was removed from the research is being carried out to address longer-term CORE form in 2007-08, so the figures are only available exposures and to assess whether hypersensitivity symptoms up to 2006-07. can be caused by exposure to terrestrial trunked radio (TETRA) signals. Further information on these studies Social Housing Grant: Greater London is available on the MTHR website at: www.mthr.org.uk/research_projects/MTHR2_projects.htm Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for The HPA has concluded that there is no consistent Communities and Local Government how much social evidence to date that exposure to radio waves from housing grant was (a) allocated to and (b) bid for by wireless networks adversely affects the health of the each London local authority in each allocation round general population. Radiofrequency exposures are likely since 2000. [284716] to be lower than those from mobile phones and well within the internationally accepted guidelines from the Mr. Ian Austin: Local authorities have been able to International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation apply for social housing grant since 2004, but to date Protection. The HPA keeps the situation under ongoing none has. In May we invited local authorities to bid for review. The HPA is carrying out a systematic programme a share of the £100 million announced in the Budget of research into Wireless Local Area Networks and (with a later addition of up to £250 million) for local their use, expected to be complete in 2010. Details can authorities to deliver new social housing. The first bids be seen on the HPA website at: are expected shortly. www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/ Tony Clements HPAweb_C/1195733726123?p=1171991026241 Blood: Contamination Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what post Mr. Tony Clements holds in his Department; and on Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for what date he was appointed. [286645] Health on what date, and in what location, the documents relating to the infection of haemophiliacs Mr. Malik: Tony Clements is a civil servant, working through contaminated blood products released by his as a policy adviser in the Strategy and Performance Department on 20 May 2009 were discovered; and if he Directorate. He was appointed on 29 June 2009. will make a statement. [285741] 657W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 658W

Gillian Merron [holding answer 13 July 2009]: The Gillian Merron: The groups, in addition to patients 468 documents released on 20 May 2009 were found in with bleeding disorders, who may have been exposed to around 40 folders which contained documents from the potentially contaminated blood and blood products late 1980s and 1990. These folders were stored at Wellington received treatment for a range of conditions. These House, a Department of Health building. While preparing patients include those with primary immunodeficiency an inventory of these folders in July 2008, departmental who received immunoglobulins, as well as some who officials became aware that they also contained documents required treatment with several infusions of intravenous relevant to period before 1985 and a full assessment of immunoglobulin G or of plasma, for conditions such as the content of all the folders was therefore undertaken. immune thrombocytopaenic purpura or rapid Many of the documents from the relevant period anticoagulation reversal respectively. were found to be copies of those already released. There Some patients who received transfusions of blood were 469 previously unreleased documents identified, components (red cells, platelets, fresh frozen plasma none of which was judged to add materially to the and cryoprecipitate) before effective tests to screen donated knowledge of events in the years before 1985. One blood for HIV and hepatitis C became available (1985 document from this batch was withheld as it contained and 1991 respectively), may also have been exposed. personal information about a patient. The remaining 468 were released as soon as was practicable. Recipients of transfusions of blood components may have been exposed to variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) during the 1980s and 1990s. To date, four cases Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for of vCJD infection associated with transfusion have Health what the documents relating to the infection of been identified, three of which resulted in clinical symptoms haemophiliacs through contaminated blood products in the transfusion recipient. All recipients of blood have been requested for release and not released by his from the donors to these cases were traced and those Department; on what grounds the documents have not living notified of their risk status. Some recipients of been released; and if he will make a statement. [285851] plasma products manufactured from United Kingdom sourced pooled plasma between 1980 and 2001 were Gillian Merron [holding answer 13 July 2009]: Since identified as being potentially ‘at risk’ for vCJD as a 1 January 2005, 30 requests have been received under result of their treatment in line with risk assessment the Freedom of Information Act to release documents advice from the CJD Incidents Panel in 2004. relating to the infection of haemophilia patients through contaminated blood products. Eight of these requests Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for were rejected under section 12 of the Act as the cost Health (1) whether the Department’s look back involved would exceed the statutory cost limit, which is exercise to identify patients who may have been £600 for central Government. infected with HIV or hepatitis C through blood and Of the remaining 22 requests, there were 25 instances blood products will include patients who were at risk of where documents were withheld from 12 of these requests. infection but who do not have bleeding disorders; and The breakdown is as follows: if he will make a statement; [286477] One instance withheld as exempt from disclosure under section 28; (2) when the Department plans to (a) start and Two instances withheld as exempt from disclosure under section 34; (b) finish its look back exercise to identify patients Seven instances withheld as exempt from disclosure under who may have been infected with HIV or hepatitis C as section 35; a result of infected blood and blood products, but who are unaware of the fact; and if he will make a Two instances withheld as exempt from disclosure under section 36; statement. [286478] Three instances withheld as exempt from disclosure under section 40; and 10 instances withheld as exempt from disclosure under section 43. Gillian Merron: The precise terms and duration of the look-back exercise are due to be finalised imminently Data is not held on the number of individual documents with the United Kingdom Haemophilia Centres Doctors’ or parts of documents that each withheld instance Organisation (UKHCDO). It is likely that the look-back relates to. exercise will concentrate on patients with bleeding disorders In addition, more than 5,500 documents (including who may have been infected, as indicated in the Government those released on 20 May 2009) covering the relevant response to Lord Archer’s independent report into national time period have been voluntarily released by the health service supplied contaminated blood and blood Department in line with the Freedom of Information products, but the UKHCDO will also take the opportunity Act. Of these documents, seven, two of which are to consider the need to include any other patient groups duplicates, have been withheld under a Freedom of who may have been infected. Information exemption because they contain personal information. There was a look-back exercise in 1995 to identify and offer hepatitis C testing to recipients of blood transfusions from known hepatitis C infected blood Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for donors. The Department’s ongoing hepatitis C awareness Health which groups of people other than individuals campaign, which has been running since 2005, highlights with bleeding disorders his Department has identified the risks of hepatitis C infection, including specifically who were exposed to potentially contaminated blood from blood transfusions or blood products in the UK and blood products as a result of medical treatment before it was possible to introduce safety measures, and between the 1970s and 1990s; and if he will make a encourages patients who may be at risk to discuss the statement. [286475] need for testing with their doctor. 659W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 660W

Patients infected with HIV through contaminated Gillian Merron: The Department has not directly blood transfusions or blood products in the UK are commissioned research on male breast cancer, and has likely to have already been identified because of the no plans to do so. clinical nature of the disease, as it is now over 20 years Over the last 10 years, the main part of the Department’s since HIV testing was introduced by the blood services. total expenditure on health research has been devolved to and managed by national health service organisations. Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Details of individual NHS supported research projects Health how many partners of haemophiliacs infected undertaken during that time, including some concerned with (a) HIV and (b) hepatitis C through with male breast cancer, are available on the archived contaminated blood products have been infected with national research register at: (i) HIV and (ii) hepatitis C as a result; and if he will https://portal.nihr.ac.uk/Pages/NRRArchiveSearch.aspx make a statement. [285881] The Medical Research Council (MRC) is one of the main agencies through which the Government support Gillian Merron: The Department does not hold details biomedical research. The MRC is an independent body of the number of infected partners of haemophiliacs funded by the Department for Business, Innovation and infected with HIV and hepatitis C. Skills. The Macfarlane Trust holds details of the number of The MRC supports a broad portfolio of research on partners of HIV infected haemophilia patient registrants, breast cancer. While this research is mainly related to who have become a beneficiary in their own right under female breast cancer, much of it will also be relevant to the ex-gratia scheme. male breast cancer, as symptoms, diagnosis and treatment The Skipton Fund, who administer the ex-gratia are similar in men and women. scheme to haemophilia patients and others infected with hepatitis C, does not keep a separate record of the Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards number of people who were infected by their partners. Mr. Hurd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for what response his Department made to (a) the interim Health (1) how many haemophiliacs had tested positive report of the Government’s stakeholder advisory group for hepatitis C antibodies in their blood by August on extremely low frequency electronic and magnetic 1990 as a result of the application of the Elisa test; and fields (SAGE) of April 2007 and (b) the Health if he will make a statement; [286098] Protection Agency’s response of October 2007 to the (2) on what date the (a) first and (b) last SAGE interim report. [286182] haemophiliac was informed of the results of the test for the prevalence of hepatitis C antibodies in their blood Gillian Merron: A Government response to the “First from the Elisa test; and if he will make a statement. Interim Assessment”published by the Stakeholder Advisory [286100] Group on Extremely Low Frequency Electromagnetic Fields (SAGE) is currently being finalised. Gillian Merron: This information is not held centrally The Health Protection Agency’s (HPA’s) advice to by the Department. This is a matter for the patient and Government on the SAGE “First Interim Assessment their clinician, and such information would not necessarily on power lines and property, wiring in homes and be held by the Skipton Fund. electrical equipment in homes” was issued in October 2007. Both the HPA’s advice and the reply from the Blood: Safety Minister of State are on the Department’s website at: www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Healthprotection/ DH_4089500 Mr. O’Hara: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will take steps to expedite the adoption of Epilepsy: Drugs pathogen inactivation measures in order to improve blood safety; and if he will make a statement. [286790] Chris McCafferty: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent assessment his Department has Gillian Merron: Pathogen inactivation is one of the made of the effect on people with epilepsy of generic options the independent Advisory Committee on the substitution of anti-epileptic drugs. [286349] Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs will consider for further reducing the infection risk from platelets (a Mr. Mike O’Brien: I refer my hon. Friend to the blood component) at its next meeting in July 2009. written answer I gave my right hon. Friend the Member There are no pathogen inactivation systems currently for Leeds, West (John Battle) and the hon. Member for available for red cells, the most widely transfused blood Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose) on 13 July 2009, component. Official Report, columns 165-66W.

Breast Cancer: Males Food: Chemical Analysis

Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for what research his Department (a) has commissioned Health what guidance the Food Standards Agency has and (b) has evaluated on male breast cancer in each of issued to local authorities on their budgetary provision the last 10 years; what research on the subject it plans for chemical analysis of food; and if he will make a to commission; and if he will make a statement. [283719] statement. [285669] 661W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 662W

Gillian Merron: Local authority food sampling Ann Keen: “Healthy lives brighter futures”, the strategy responsibilities are set out in the Statutory Food Law for children and young people’s health identified tackling Code of Practice (separate parallel codes of practice inequalities as a key area for improvement. It sets out exist for each of the four United Kingdom countries). plans for universal, targeted and specialist support across Local authorities are required to put together a sampling three life stages—early years and pregnancy, schools programme which details their intended food sampling age and young people—as well as the additional support priorities, taking into account the number, type and risk for children and young people in need of acute or rating of premises in their area and any national or ongoing health care, including a range of measures to local consumer issues that may influence sampling rates. address inequalities. It is for primary care trusts working Also important are any responsibilities under the originating with local authorities and other local partners to ensure or Home Authority principle. their local needs assessment and planning addresses the Local authorities must ensure the resources necessary full range of local needs, and that the local service offer to carry out the food sampling programme are made is communicated to all families. A copy of the strategy available. has already been placed in the Library. The Food Standards Agency (FSA) Board annually Examples of specific initiatives include the family examine monitoring reports of local authorities activities nurse partnership, while the universal programme for including sampling annually, looking at both national all, the Healthy Child programme, includes preventative trends and the position of individual authorities. Where services for children with additional risks. an individual local authority reports figures which are not considered to be acceptable, further enquiries are Tackling health inequalities in children is also a key made of that authority, and the agency will, if appropriate, theme of the national health inequalities strategy, “the use its powers formally to audit that authority’s services. Programme for Action”, and reducing the infant mortality gap between routine and manual group and the whole Health Foods: Channel Islands of the population is part of the health inequalities 2010 public service agreement target. A national support Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Health team for infant mortality designed to improve infant (1) pursuant to the contribution of the Minister of and maternal health outcomes and service delivery in State for Health of 5 May 2009, Official Report, disadvantaged areas was launched on 22 April 2009. A column 54WH, in the Westminster Hall debate on copy of “Programme for Action” has been placed in the health food products (Channel Islands), what further Library. information he has received on (a) a timetable for the implementation of the Food Supplements Directive and Nutrition and Health Claims Regulation in Jersey and (b) the plans of the authorities in Guernsey to Health Services: Domestic Visits implement the legislation; and if he will make a statement; [284938] (2) whether the Food Standards Agency has been Sandra Gidley: To ask the Secretary of State for asked by the Government of Jersey to provide an Health how many times (a) he and (b) Ministers in his opinion on whether the definition of food business Department visited (i) a dental practice, (ii) an operator includes fulfilment businesses; and if he will optometrist, (iii) a GP surgery, (iv) a pharmacy and make a statement. [284940] (v) an NHS walk-in centre in the last 12 months. [286787] Gillian Merron: The Food Standards Agency (FSA) is awaiting responses from the Government of Jersey regarding their timetable for implementing the Food Phil Hope: The following visits occurred during the Supplements Directive and the Nutrition and Health period 1 June 2008 to 9 July 2009. Visits by each Claims Regulation and from the Government of Guernsey Minister were: about their plans for the implementation of this legislation. Alan Johnson (until June 2009) In September 2008, an official of the Government of Number of visits from 1 June Jersey sought the view of the FSA as to the status of Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 businesses trading in foodstuffs which never physically fall into their possession. In its response, the FSA A dental practice 4 advised that as the definition of ‘food business’ in An optometrist 0 Regulation (EC) 178/2002 (General Food Law) refers to A GP surgery 16 “activities related to any stage of production, processing and A pharmacy 0 distribution of food” An NHS walk-in centre 0 this would not preclude businesses of the type mentioned Andy Burnham (from June 2009 onwards) from falling under the definition and, hence, being Number of visits from 1 June subject to relevant food law. Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009

Health Services: Children A dental practice 0 An optometrist 0 Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for A GP surgery 0 Health if he will bring forward proposals to reduce A pharmacy 0 inequalities in access to health services for children. An NHS walk-in centre 0 [287304] 663W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 664W

Ben Bradshaw (until June 2009) Lord Darzi Number of visits from 1 June Number of visits from 1 June Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 A dental practice 0 A dental practice 2 An optometrist 0 An optometrist 0 A GP surgery 9 A GP surgery 8 A pharmacy 1 A pharmacy 0 An NHS walk-in centre 0 An NHS walk-in centre 1 Health Services: Private Sector

Mike O’Brien (from June 2009 onwards) Norman Lamb: To ask the Secretary of State for Number of visits from 1 June Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 Health what guidelines the NHS issues to trusts on procedures for the recovery of debts incurred by private A dental practice 0 patients. [285461] An optometrist 0 A GP surgery 1 Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department does not provide A pharmacy 0 specific guidelines to national health service trusts in An NHS walk-in centre 0 respect of the recovery of debts incurred by private patients. Ann Keen However, the Department does issue to NHS Number of visits from 1 June organisations a model financial governance framework Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 that refers to debt management. A dental practice 2 Health Services: Reciprocal Arrangements An optometrist 1 A GP surgery 1 A pharmacy 0 Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health An NHS walk-in centre 0 pursuant to the answer to Lord Laird of 1 June 2009, Official Report, House of Lords, column WA31, on Dawn Primarolo (until June 2009) health: former UK residents, what methodology was Number of visits from 1 June used to calculate the UK average cost for pensioners Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 and their dependants; and what information his Department has received from the government of the A dental practice 0 Republic of Ireland on the calculation of its average An optometrist 0 cost. [283879] A GP surgery 0 A pharmacy 1 Gillian Merron: The United Kingdom’s average cost An NHS walk-in centre 0 for pensioners and their dependents, is based upon the number of these people living in the UK (using Office Gillian Merron (from June 2009 onwards) of National Statistics data for the relevant year) and the Number of visits from 1 June expenditure that relates to national health service health Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 care provided to them (using information from departmental A dental practice 0 and NHS accounts). The Department does not have An optometrist 0 access to the full methodology used by the Republic of A GP surgery 0 Ireland for calculating its average costs, as under European A pharmacy 0 Union rules, there is no obligation on one member state An NHS walk-in centre 0 to share this with another. EU Regulation 1408/71 covers how citizens visiting, Ivan Lewis (until October 2008) working and retired in other EEA (European economic Number of visits from 1 June area) member states access health care. Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 Under these regulations, member states bill each other A dental practice 0 back for health care provided to pensioners and their An optometrist 0 dependents, on the basis of an average cost. Each A GP surgery 0 member state calculates its own average costs, taking A pharmacy 0 into account the overall amount they spend on their An NHS walk-in centre 0 health care system and the size and profile of their population. Phil Hope (from October 2008 onwards) Member states have their average costs scrutinised Number of visits from 1 June and agreed by an EU-level group of which the UK is a Type of organisation 2008 to 9 July 2009 member. A dental practice 1 An optometrist 0 Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health A GP surgery 1 pursuant to the answer to Lord Laird of 1 June 2009, A pharmacy 0 Official Report, House of Lords, column WA32, on An NHS walk-in centre 0 health: former UK residents, for what reasons the UK has not made claims against other EU member states in 665W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 666W relation to overseas visitors treated by the devolved Registered File INW 14/30/12, HF&E Bill 1990, Hansard, VOL 2 health authorities; and what estimate he has made of Lords/ Volume the cost of treatment provided by devolved health Commons Date number Edition number authorities in respect of which the UK has not made a Commons 2 April 1990 170 84 claim in each of the last 10 years. [284280] Lords 11 June 1992 537 20 Lords 30 June 1992 538 30 Gillian Merron: So far, it has not been possible to Commons 15 July 1992 211 50 establish why claims have not been raised by the United Lords 18 October 1990 522 139 Kingdom in respect of treatment provided by the devolved health authorities. However, the Department is working Commons 20 June 1990 174 125 with the Ministry of Justice to identify the information Commons 21 June 1990 174 126 requirements from the devolved Administrations so These publications are available from the Library. that this matter can be resolved. As referred to in the answer to Lord Laird of 1 June 2009, Official Report, HIV Infection and Hepatitis C House of Lords, column WA32, departmental officials are currently exploring the scope for obtaining the necessary data. Until systems are in place, it is not Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for possible to make a meaningful estimate of the cost of Health what estimate his Department has made of the treatment not historically claimed for. average (a) annual and (b) total lifetime cost to the NHS of a person with (i) HIV and (ii) hepatitis C; and HF&E Bill 1990 Hansard if he will make a statement. [285738] Gillian Merron: The estimated average annual cost to Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the national health service for a person with HIV is (1) if he will place in the Library a copy of each £14,000-£15,000. These costs will vary according to document in his Department’s file INW0014/0030/ immune status. The average lifetime treatment costs for 0012/VO2 HF&E Bill 1990 Hansard; and if he will HIV is estimated to be between £135,000-£181,000 although make a statement; [285547] this may increase as life expectancy continues to increase. (2) if he will place in the Library a copy of each For hepatitis C, the cost of drug therapy is estimated document in his Department’s file INW0014/0030/ to be between £6,000-£15,000, depending on the duration 0012 HF&E Bill 1990 Hansard; and if he will make a of treatment, which is currently 24 or 48 weeks. statement. [285549]

Gillian Merron: Volume 1 of file INW 14/30/12, Influenza HF&E Bill 1990, Hansard, contains only copies of the daily House of Lords official reports published in 1989 Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and 1990, editions as shown in the table: pursuant to the answer of 23 June 2009, Official Registered File INW 14/30/12, HF&E Bill 1990, Hansard, VOL 1 Report, column 650, on influenza pandemic, what the interim service is that could be launched within a week; Lords/ Volume Edition Commons Date Number Number [282767] (2) what tests of the flu line service have been Lords 7 December 513 11 1989 undertaken; when they were undertaken; what was tested in each case; and what the outcome of each such Lords 1 February 1990 515 31 test was. [282768] Lords 6 February 1990 515 33 Lords 7 February 1990 515 34 Gillian Merron: The interim National Pandemic Flu Lords 8 February 1990 515 35 Service will consist of a phone service that the public Lords 13 February 515 38 can access through a single 0800 number, and a supporting 1990 website application. This will mean that people can Lords 14 February 515 39 1990 have their symptoms assessed either over the phone or Lords 6 March 1990 516 50 online. Those symptoms will be checked against an algorithm—a list of the key symptoms and factors that Lords 7 March 1990 516 51 determine whether the patient in question has been Lords 13 March 1990 516 54 exposed to the infection. If it is established that they Lords 20 March 1990 517 58 have developed swine flu, they will if appropriate, be Volume 2 of the file contains copies of the daily issued with an authorisation number that they will then House of Lords and House of Commons official reports need to access antivirals. Their go-between—their flu published in 1990 and 1992, editions as shown in the friend—will then take that authorisation number to table, plus three copies of The Abortion Regulations their nearest collection point to obtain the antivirals. 1991: The following tests have been conducted on the full Registered File INW 14/30/12, HF&E Bill 1990, Hansard, VOL 2 National Pandemic Flu Service: Lords/ Volume April to June 12: Unit and Module testing of the Public Web, Commons Date number Edition number Call Centre, National Pandemic Flu Service Professional (i.e. the facility for a limited number of Healthcare professionals to Commons 25 April 1990 171 93 authorise an antiviral). This is to test that each part of the system Commons 24 April 1990 171 92 functions as required, as it is developed. These tests were conducted Commons 23 April 1990 171 91 and demonstrated that the system was functioning as expected. The testing approach and results were also independently reviewed. 667W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 668W

15 to 22 June: Functional Acceptance tests. This is to test the entire system, end to end, to ensure all of its components function File number File name together as required. These tests were conducted independently of EAX/034 Human Tissue and Embryos (Draft) Bill the supplier and demonstrated that the system was functioning as expected. EAX/036 Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill 2007/08 EAX/037 Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008: Further testing will be undertaken as the National Implementation Pandemic Flu Service is made ready to go live between now and the autumn. This will include a full user Mental Health Services: Finance acceptance testing process. Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Secretary of State for Influenza: Business Health with reference to the statement of 10 October 2007, Official Report, columns 297-300, on health and Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Health social care, how much of the funding of £170 million which public bodies are responsible for (a) informing for a psychological therapy service has been allocated and (b) assisting businesses in planning and handling to each health trust; and if he will make a statement. of an influenza pandemic. [286676] [287124]

Gillian Merron: Government Departments are Phil Hope: Annual funding for the Improving Access responsible for ensuring that their sponsored sectors are to Psychological Therapies programme (IAPT) will rise aware of the challenges posed by pandemic influenza. to £173 million in its third year (2010-11) and funding is They do this through regular exchanges with, for example, allocated to strategic health authorities on the basis of a representative bodies and the dissemination of relevant weighted capitation formula. information to assist with planning. As part of this Under this formula, primary care trusts (PCTs) are two-way process, they also identify emerging policy allocated funding based on their share of the total issues that need to be addressed. population in England, weighted to account for an Under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, local authorities individual PCTs population’s healthcare needs relative are required to provide advice and assistance to businesses to other PCTs. within their area on business continuity planning. In Allocations to PCTs are made by regional programme addition, many operators of Critical National Infrastructure boards to those services that meet IAPT programme are designated as Category 2 responders under the Civil quality standards. These relate to: clinical leadership; a Contingencies Act 2004, and are therefore closely engaged third of the staff being appropriately qualified to supervise in resilience planning at various levels within the United and support the trainees; suitable accommodation for Kingdom. the services to operate from; training provided in line In response to the Swine Flu outbreak, the Government with the programme’s national curricula; data systems have established a Business Advisory Network for Flu that can collect outcome information effectively for at to help co-ordinate advice to employers. Additional least 90 per cent. of patients; and, recruitment and work guidance and information is available through the Business force planning. Link website. Mentally Ill: Suicide Influenza: Health Services John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many (a) suicides and (b) attempted suicides Sandra Gidley: To ask the Secretary of State for there have been of individuals in the care of each Health what discussions he has had with mental health trust in each year from 2000 to 2008. pharmaceutical wholesalers on preparations for an [287118] influenza pandemic in the last 12 months. [284986] Phil Hope: The Department does not collect these Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department has a range of figures centrally. However, the National Confidential discussions with pharmaceutical wholesalers about matters Inquiry into Suicide and Homicide (NCISH) by People of joint interest. This has included preparations for an with Mental Illness collects certain figures around this influenza pandemic. issue and the following table shows numbers of people by calendar year who were in contact with mental Legislation: Documents health (MH) services in England in the year prior to their death. This includes those who were under the care Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of services as out-patients and the table also includes what files his Department holds on (a) the draft the number and percentage of those in contact with Tissues and Embryos Bill, (b) the Human Fertilisation services who were in-patients at the time of their death. and Embryology Bill [Lords] and (c) the Human It should be noted that the inquiry sample includes Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008; and if he will both suicide and open verdicts at coroners’ inquest. make a statement. [285486] Open verdicts are often thought to be suicides and are conventionally used in suicide rate estimation in the Gillian Merron: The files held by the Department on United Kingdom. Neither the Department nor the NCISH the Human Tissues and Embryos (Draft) Bill, the Human collect information on attempted suicides. Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [Lords] and the Human We are unable to release information relating to Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008, are set out in specific mental health trusts without the permission of the following table: those trusts. 669W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 670W

Suicides in contact with mental health services in the year prior to Swine Flu death (England only) Suicides in contact with MH services In-patients Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health N=8,565 N=1,153 (%) (1) pursuant to the statement of 12 June 2009, Official Report, columns 1052-63, on swine flu update, what 2000 1,248 196 plans are in place to ensure that critical care capacity is 2001 1,260 179 in place where it is needed; and what recent assessment 2002 1,249 165 he has made of the level of critical care capacity 2003 1,249 183 required to meet those needs; [283907] 2004 1,307 158 (2) what steps he is taking to ensure the operation 2005 1,253 151 surveillance and testing for swine flu of people in 2006 999 121 hospital with respiratory illnesses; [283911] (3) what percentage of those diagnosed with swine Reciprocal Health Services: Elderly flu have required intensive care treatment to date. [283931] Mr. Cox: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the effects on the Gillian Merron: It is not possible to estimate the health of elderly people of the termination of the number of critical care beds required in a flu pandemic reciprocal health agreement with the Isle of Man; and because this will depend upon a range of factors such as if he will make a statement. [286704] the clinical attack rate, the most ‘at risk’ population and the number of flu victims requiring intensive care. The Gillian Merron: The Department has not yet given percentage of those diagnosed with swine flu that have formal notice on the bilateral agreement between the required intensive care treatment is less than 1 per cent. United Kingdom and the Isle of Man but it has informed In the ‘Managing Demand and Capacity in Health the Isle of Man of the intention to do so. As the Care Organisations (Surge)’ guidance, it is advised that, termination of the agreement has not yet been formalised, within their local flu contingency plans, acute hospitals neither the UK nor the Isle of Man have confirmed will aim to double the number of critical care beds which treatments will be chargeable to tourists after the available. A copy of the guidance has already been termination of the agreement. However, the Department placed in the Library. Managing demand will also be will recommend private travel insurance for tourists, as achieved by cancelling elective work and redeploying it does for all travel outside the UK. Given the wide clinical staff from services such as theatres to help availability of travel insurance, termination of the agreement provide a level of critical care across this increased is not expected to have a significant adverse effect on demand. The guidance also includes measures to relieve any group of the population, including the elderly. pressure such as increased use of agency and retired staff. Sunbeds: Young People In June 2009, the Chief Medical Officer issued advice to national health service staff about the measures they should take to ensure adequate surveillance and testing Mrs. James: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of hospital patients for swine flu. A copy of that advice (1) what recent estimate he has made of the percentage has been placed in the Library. of 11 to 17 year olds who use sun beds in (a) urban and (b) rural areas in England and Wales; [286603] Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (2) with reference to his Department’s report on the pursuant to the statement of 12 June 2009, Official Cancer Reform Strategy, Maintaining Momentum, Report, columns 1052-63, on swine flu update, from published on 1 December 2008, when he expects to which locations in each primary care trust area patients publish further information on sun bed use by young who require antiviral medication are being asked to people; [286604] collect that medication; what the reasons are for the (3) if he will commission research on the reasons for time taken to designate such collection points; and which those aged under 18 years old use sun beds; when he expects all arrangements for such collection [286605] points to be in place. [283908] (4) what recent reports he has received of the annual incidence of deaths arising from sun bed use. [286606] Gillian Merron: Primary care trusts (PCTs) already have arrangements in place for antiviral collection points as part of pandemic flu planning. Strategic health Gillian Merron: The recent report of the committee authorities (SHAs) have been reviewing this earlier this on medical aspects of radiation in the environment year to ensure that plans are robust, that a good spread (COMARE) summarises evidence on sunbed use amongst is available across each PCT geographically and that young people and also refers to estimates of the number sufficient collection points can be up and running to of deaths accounted for by sunbed use. The report can meet the needs of the population. All PCTs are able to be accessed at: establish an initial antiviral collection point (ACP) within www.comare.org.uk/13thPressRelease.htm 48 hours, to provide at least one ACP which can be The Department has commissioned further research operational on a 24/7 basis with the remainder offering from Cancer Research UK which is expected to cover a range of opening hours dependent upon demand. what factors motivate young people to use sunbeds in a Within seven days of the request to mobilise PCTs are particular setting. We will consider making these data able to have sufficient ACPs up and running to meet the available in due course. needs of the population as necessary.Timing of mobilisation 671W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 672W of collection points and locations will depend upon the Professor Jonathan Van Tam level of demand from swine flu in each local area. PCTs Professor Maria Zambon in each area are providing local communications in SAGE was established in May 2009 and has since had each area to tell the population where collection points 11 meetings on the following dates: are located. The detail of where all collection points are 5, 8, 12, 18, 20, 26 May operating is not held centrally. 2, 9, 15, 22, 29 June Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health We will not be placing copies of the minutes of each pursuant to the statement of 12 June 2009, Official SAGE meeting in the Library at the present time. The Report, columns 1052-63, on swine flu update, for what majority of SAGE work is directly commenting on or reasons the National Pandemic Flu Line service will providing input to the formulation of Government not be operational until the autumn; and what estimate policy. In addition, in order for SAGE to work effectively, he has made of the cost to the public purse of the members need to be free to discuss issues openly, including change to the timetable for the establishment of the full confidential evidence in their deliberations. The publication service. [283909] of the minutes may therefore prejudice the effective conduct of public affairs. However, we will keep the Gillian Merron: The full National Pandemic Flu Service publication of minutes under review. continues to be planned for operation during the autumn, if required. As a result of the swine flu outbreak the Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health build of the original ‘flu line’ system was put on hold so pursuant to the statement of 12 June 2009, Official that an interim solution, including additional antiviral Report, columns 1052-62, on swine flu update, what collection point functionality, could be developed and decisions the Health Minister took regarding pandemic tested to be available more quickly if needed. The influenza in 2007. [284273] additional costs related to building the interim solution amount to approximately £2.5 million and are the only Gillian Merron: Departmental Ministers have been additional system build costs incurred to date in respect fully engaged in preparations for pandemic influenza of the interim solution. for many years. Final decisions on pandemic preparedness have been the responsibility of the Secretary of State. Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the statement of 12 June 2009, Official Michael Fabricant: To ask the Secretary of State for Report, columns 1052-63, on swine flu update, who the Health if he will bring forward proposals to enable members of the Strategic Advisory Group of Experts people to purchase anti-pyretics in greater quantities are; on which dates the group has met; and if he will over the counter for preparation in the event of them place in the Library a copy of the minutes of each such contracting swine influenza. [286366] meeting. [283910] Gillian Merron: There are no current plans to do this. Gillian Merron: On 12 June 2009, the Secretary of Antipyretics such as paracetamol and aspirin are available State for Health mentioned SAGE but in error referred in packs of 16 tablets or capsules from general sale to the Strategic Advisory Group of Experts, which outlets such as supermarkets and up to two packs can advises the World Health Organisation on immunisation. be purchased at any one time. Larger packs of 32 tablets He intended to refer to the Scientific Advisory Group or capsules are designated as pharmacy medicines and for Emergencies (SAGE), which has been established to are sold by or under the supervision of a pharmacist. provide cross government scientific advice regarding Pharmacists have the professional discretion to sell up the outbreak of swine flu. to 100 tablets or capsules without a prescription if they The members of this committee are as follows: consider this is in the best interests of the patient. The need for professional advice and supervision when supplying Professor John Beddington (Co-Chair) these medicines does not reduce during a pandemic. Professor Sir Gordon Duff (Co-Chair) Professor David Harper (Lead Government Department) Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Professor Sir Roy Anderson Health whether all primary care trusts have anti-viral Professor Dame Sally Davies (Departmental Chief Scientific collection points accessible to all their populations. Adviser) [287306] Dr. Meirion Evans Gillian Merron: In each primary care trust (PCT) or Professor Neil Ferguson where demand from swine flu has been very modest Professor George Griffin across a number of PCTs they have been asked to Dr. Peter Grove mobilise at least one Antiviral Collection Point locally. Professor Andrew Hall More have been opened to respond to the level of demand from patients and the public for rapid access to Dr. Stephen Inglis antivirals. Dr. Steve Leach Professor Susan Michie Swine Flu: Hospital Beds Professor Angus Nicoll Professor Karl Nicholson Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate he has made of the number of intensive Professor Peter Openshaw care beds occupied by people diagnosed with swine Professor Deenan Pillay influenza at the latest date for which figures are Sir John Skehel available. [286318] 673W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 674W

Gillian Merron: In the 24 hours up to 8 am on 8 July West London Mental Health NHS Trust 2009, 43 in-patients with swine influenza (swabbed or clinically presumed) were receiving critical care in national John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health health service trusts in England. when the investigation commissioned by the Healthcare Commission in April 2008 into the West London Mental Health Trust will be (a) completed Thalidomide and (b) published. [287117]

Rob Marris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Phil Hope: The Healthcare Commission’s successor what recent research his Department has evaluated on organisation, the Care Quality Commission, has informed the teratogenic properties of thalidomide. [279989] us that it has completed its investigation into West London Mental Health NHS Trust. It will publish its Mr. Mike O’Brien [holding answer 29 June 2009]: report on its website on 21 July 2009. The Department has not evaluated any research on the teratogenic properties of thalidomide. Toxicity trials for Young People’s Development Programme pharmaceutical products, including tests for their teratogenic properties, are the responsibility of pharmaceutical Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for companies. Health (1) which Minister has lead responsibility for the Young People’s Development Programme; [287379] (2) how much has been spent on the Young People’s Thame Hospital Development Programme since its inception; and what the Programme’s projected budget is for the next five John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health years. [287378] pursuant to the answer of 23 October 2008, Official Report, columns 524-25W, how much of the funding of Gillian Merron: The Minister who lead on Public £4 million from the community hospitals and services Health had responsibility for the Young People’s programme for the re-development of Thame Hospital, Development Programme. This pilot programme ran Oxfordshire had been spent as at 1 July 2009, and what from 2004 to 2007 at a total cost of £6 million. The the timetable is for the completion of the programme finished in spring 2007. re-development. [287116]

Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Thame Community Hospital INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT programme is one of 28 schemes that has secured Afghanistan funding from the community hospital programme. The latest project programme from the primary care trust Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for (PCT) indicates that work on the new unit is planned to International Development how many of his start on site in August 2010 and completion in September Department’s staff are working at each forward 2011. The PCT schedule indicates a requirement for operating base in Helmand province. [287270] funding of £2.28 million in 2010-11 and £1.72 million in 2011-12. Additional refurbishment of older buildings Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International takes place from October 2011 to March 2012, and the Development (DFID) no longer publicises staff numbers PCT tells us that it will be operational in March or for country offices, following an assessment of DFID’s April 2012. work in insecure environments by the National Audit Office in October 2008, and a range of improvements to our security policies and procedures. Tranquillisers Afghanistan: Reconstruction

Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for if he will assess the efficacy of his policy on the International Development who is responsible for the prescription of tranquillisers in limiting the number of reconstruction and development programme following the completion of Operation Panther’s Claw in medicines prescribed. [276005] Helmand; and how much funding (a) his Department and (b) other agencies have allocated for the Gillian Merron: The addiction to prescription drugs, programme. [287271] such as benzodiazepines, is a very important issue and a number of steps have been taken to tackle this problem Mr. Michael Foster: Support to reconstruction and with the main focus on advice to prevent such dependence development in Helmand is led by an inter-departmental, occurring in the first place, by warning general practitioners civilian-military, multi-national Provincial Reconstruction of the potential side-effects of prescribed medicines and Team (PRT), led by a UK Senior Representative from the dangers of involuntary addiction to benzodiazepines. the Foreign Office. Four staff members of the Department Over the coming months the Department will be for International Development (DFID) are integrated reviewing its policy on addiction to prescription and into the Helmand PRT. over the (OTC) drugs, including tranquillisers. This DFID core funding for Helmand this year is £18 million, review will identity where and how policy should advanced, which will include programmes benefiting the Babaji so that those addicted to prescription or OTC drugs population such as agriculture support, basic infrastructure, receive high quality, effective services. and a major road. 675W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 676W

The PRT has developed a stabilisation plan around The Overseas Pensions system supports administration and Operation Panther’s Claw and the Babaji area. This payment of pensions to former colonial servants. This database includes work on supporting the Afghan Government contains personal, bank and payment data (name, address, telephone to establish itself in cleared areas, to deliver health, number, bank details, next of kin) on former colonial servants, and was collected from February 1998. education and policing services and to set up polling stations for the elections in August. The cross-government Correspondence systems enable tracking of parliamentary and public correspondence. These systems contain names and contact Stabilisation Aid Fund (SAF) has set aside almost £15 details (address, telephone, telephone number, email address) of million for district stabilisation across Helmand this correspondents. The information has been collected since December year. 1999. The Asian Development Bank has pledged $50 million to co-fund two major infrastructure projects with DFID: Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for a road linking Lashkar Gah and Gereshk (which goes International Development what categories of personal around Babaji) and a hydro-power plant in Gereshk information on members of the public will be held on (also funded by Denmark). USAID will deliver a major each database expected to become operational in the agricultural programme across Helmand over the next next five years and which will be managed by his year. Department or one of its agencies; what estimate he has made of the likely number of individuals’ details Afghanistan: Theme Parks each such database will hold when fully operational; and if he will make a statement. [286152] Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what assessment he has Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International made of the effectiveness of the theme park for women Development (DFID) has no current plans to build in Lashkar Gah; and how much it cost. [287269] databases containing personal information on members of the public. Mr. Michael Foster: The Bolan Park was built in Developing Countries: Job Creation Bolan, Lashkar Gah, in 2007 at the request of the Governor of Helmand and in response to an identified local need: it functions as a symbol for security and Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State development in the area. The park is providing much-needed for International Development pursuant to the Oral recreational space and facilities for the people of Lashkar Statement of 6 July 2009, Official Report, columns 701-4, Gar and the surrounding area. It is open to men, on Building Our Common Future, which five fragile women and children with one day each week being set countries will receive his Department’s new bilateral aid aside for women’s exclusive use. One of the first major for job creation by 2013. [285914] events hosted there was a US-funded agricultural fair to promote legal livelihoods attended by 1,700 Afghans. Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International The park was also used for a successful cultural event Development’s planned new programme of work to organised by the Helmand Governor, which attracted expand economic opportunities by creating jobs in fragile more than 2,000 people. states will initially target Nigeria, Afghanistan, Nepal, Yemen and Ethiopia. Through our work in these five The UK provided funding for the park through the countries, we expect to create a maximum of 1.25 million Provincial Reconstruction Team. The park cost around jobs, which will benefit up to 7.5 million people in total £420,000 and was built alongside the Helmand River. over the next five years. The costs reflect the fact that during construction gabion walls were put in place to support the river bank, which Developing Countries: Overseas Aid helps prevent erosion, and to support the Bolan Bridge. In addition, the park has extensive lighting which is Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State important for improving security at night. for International Development what grants his Department has made available to UK-based charities Departmental Databases for projects to assist fragile states in the last 12 months. [286077] Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what categories of personal Mr. Michael Foster: Centrally-managed Department information about members of the public are for International Development (DFID) grants available contained on each relevant database managed by his to UK-based charities for projects to assist fragile states Department and its agencies; on what date each are: category of information began to be collected; and if The Civil Society Challenge Fund (CSCF)—£16.7 million of he will make a statement. [285979] the fund covers projects in 15 fragile states with 31 UK-based agencies. Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International Governance and Transparency Fund (GTF)—£25.2 million of Development (DFID) manages the following databases the fund covers projects in 19 fragile states with 18 UK-based that contain personal information on members of the agencies. public: Partnership Programme Arrangements (PPAs)—this is unrestricted Financial and Projects systems (ARIES, MIS and Coda) are funding, covering the period 2008-2011 at £110 million a year used for administration of projects and accounts. These databases with 26 UK-based agencies, many of which operate in fragile contain DFID suppliers and customers’ contact and bank details states. (name, address, company registration number, VAT number, bank Conflict, Humanitarian and Security Fund (CHSF)—£28.8 details and payment terms). Information on these categories has million of these grants provide core funding to seven UK-based been collected since February 1998. agencies, all of which operate in fragile states. 677W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 678W

DFID country offices in fragile states will also have of the conflict in 2002. DFID has not funded the EU or made funds available to UK-based charities. It would UN to work with NGOs in Sierra Leone from its require disproportionate effort to identify and list all bilateral budget. such grants. DFID monitors closely and actively the effectiveness of all its spending, including that of support to NGOs. Global Partnership for Agriculture Food Security and DFID staff based in Sierra Leone are in regular contact Nutrition with project partners, and NGOs and others responsible for project implementation are required to submit regular Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for reports on progress. It is a requirement to hold detailed International Development who will administer the annual reviews of each project. new Global Partnership for Agriculture Food Security NGOs receiving support from the Department for International and Nutrition; what the UK’s percentage contribution Development for work in Sierra Leone will be to the budget of the Partnership; and what the NGO Project, value and duration UK’s cash contribution to the Partnership will be in Christian Aid £30,000 in 2008-09 for Public Financial each of the next two financial years. [285397] Management (PFM) design phase (ensure greater inclusiveness in the budget process, Mr. Thomas: Discussions are still on-going on increase access to information, and administrative arrangements for the global partnership improved responsiveness geared towards achieving gender-sensitive and pro-poor process. Options for staffing, funding needs, and objectives budgets and programmes) (Jan-June 2009). will be assessed. We envisage a fairly light administrative £50,000 in 2008-09 for Power to the People structure, providing primarily secretariat-type functions. (five-year project, making governance work A decision on longer-term support by the Department for marginalised groups). for International Development will be taken in due Plan International £1.6 million in 2008-09 through the Water, course. Sanitation and Hygiene (WASH) programme, to implement a community-led total sanitation project in Port Loko (2007- Sierra Leone: Overseas Aid 12). International Rescue £100,000 in 2008-09 to support Committee implementation of the Gender Acts with Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for the Ministry of Social Welfare, Gender and International Development if he will increase the Children Affairs (2008-10). support provided by his Department for the Student Partnership £157,116 in 2008-9 as part of Education on development of democratic institutions and politicians Worldwide (SPW) Youth Reproductive Health and Life Skills in Sierra Leone; and if he will make a statement. project (2008-12). [283854] Conciliation £50,000 in 2008-09 for increasing Resources (CR) government accountability in conflict zones through public participation in Mr. Thomas: The Department for International policymaking (five-year project). £100,871 Development (DFID) is committed to supporting further in 2008-9 for Community Peace and the development of democratic institutions and politicians Empowerment in Southern Sierra Leone in Sierra Leone. (2005-10) Partnership For £16,000 in 2008-09 for a Citizens Against To this end DFID has, for example, recently begun Transparency Fund Corruption project (five-year project). work to design a project of support to the 2012 elections BBC World Service £125,000 in 2008-09 for A National in Sierra Leone, involving Sierra Leone’s electoral Trust Conversation: Promoting Accountability, management bodies, potential parliamentary candidates Transparency and Participation through and civil society. partnership with Public Broadcasters in Africa (five-year project) Tiri £51,000 in 2008-09 for ‘Pro Poor Integrity! Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Civil Society Engagement to Make International Development which non-governmental Governance and Transparency Work for organisations (NGOs) receive support from his Poor and Vulnerable Communities’ (five- Department (a) directly and (b) indirectly via the (i) year project) EU and (ii) the United Nations for work in Sierra Amnesty £39,000 in 2008-09 for Sierra Leone as part Leone; what support each such organisation received in International of an Africa Rights Education Programme (A) cash and (B) kind in 2008-09; for how long each (four-year project). such organisation has been supported by his Search For £30,000 in 2008-09 as one of the partners of Common Ground the £3 million PIVOT programme (to Department; what projects in Sierra Leone have been (SFCG) promote transparency on elections) (2006- supported by such NGOs with funds from his 08). £16,000 in 2008-09 for support to Department; what steps his Department takes to messages on Maternal Mortality for monitor effectiveness of such spending; and if he will International Women’s Day (2008). £56,500 make a statement. [283862] in 2008-09 for a media programme to strengthen good governance and transparency (three-year project). Mr. Thomas: The Department for International Education Action £148,180 in 2008-09 for ‘Children’s Rights Development (DFID)’s support for non-governmental International (EAI) to Inclusive and Effective education in organisations (NGOs) in Sierra Leone is set out in the Northern Province’’ (2005-10). following table. This provides information about the Apt Enterprise £111,387 in 2008-09 for ‘Building the amount of assistance received in 2008-09; the projects Development Capacity of Disadvantaged People in Sierra Leone to access their Livelihoods’ (2006- funded; and the duration of the projects. DFID has 10). supported NGOs for work in Sierra Leone since the end 679W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 680W

NGOs receiving support from the Department for International which are: to halve, between 1990 and 2015, the proportions Development for work in Sierra Leone of people who live on less than a dollar a day and who NGO Project, value and duration suffer from hunger. Economic growth rates of at least 6 Village Aid £99,915 in 2008-09 for ‘Literacy and per cent. would need to be sustained in order to do this. Livelihoods to Empower Young People and their Organisations in Sierra Leone’ (2006- 10). Trades Union £122,747 in 2008-09 for ‘Rebuilding Trade JUSTICE Congress (TUC) Union Capacity in Sierra Leone’ (2007-10). Help The Hospices £75,775 in 2008-09: Health Development Compensation: Local Government Project (2008-13). National £40,410 in 2008-9 as one of the partners of Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Democratic Institute the £3 million PIVOT programme (to Justice whether his Department has identified a promote transparency on elections) (2006- compensation culture within local government. [285257] 08). Westminster One of the partners of the £3 million Foundation For PIVOT programme (to promote Mr. Malik: I have been asked to reply. Democracy transparency on elections) (2006-08). The independent review into redress presented its Foundation £395,915 in 2008-09 as one of the partners findings on 17 June 2009. The review was not specifically Hirondelle of the £3 million PIVOT programme (to asked to look at the issue of any compensation culture promote transparency on elections) (2006- within local government. The review team did commission 08). some focus groups with customers which found that Goal £21,351 in 2008-09 under the Water and Sanitation (WATSAN) programme to most people, when making complaints about a public reduce the incidence and impact of water- service, want a meaningful apology, an acknowledgement borne diseases in disadvantaged urban areas of what had gone wrong and a correction of the problem; of Freetown. (six months in 2008). financial compensation was a low motivator for people World Vision Leads a consortium with CARE and seeking redress. ActionAid funded by DFID’s Conflict, Humanitarian and Security Department The Department commissioned the review following (CHASE) to sensitise communities in a commitment made in the Empowerment White Paper. security issues: 2008-12, value of project This independent review was chaired by David Cook £1.6 million. (CEO Kettering borough council) and looked at how Care £1 million in 2008-09 to manage the local authorities can not only improve how they deal ‘Enhancing the interface between Civil with complaints but how they can get it right first time. Society and the State (ENCISS)’ The review focused on the more transactional services programme (2004-12). £589,000 in 2008-09 for consortium of NGOs led by CARE to provided by local authorities, for example refuse collection, support implementation of the and did not focus on specific redress systems currently Government’s Reproductive and Child in place in local authorities across England. Health programme in 5 districts (2006-09). Working on a Conflict, Humanitarian and Debt Collection Security Department (CHASE)-funded security project led by World Vision (see above). Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Action Aid £13,000 in 2008-09 as part of Poverty Justice pursuant to the answer of 24 April 2009, Reduction Budget Support (PRBS) Official Report, column 958W, on debt collection, monitoring to carry out a check of whether HM Courts Service plans to extend the information on school and medical supplies guidance to county courts in the South East to other being posted on public notice boards (2008). Working on a Conflict, Humanitarian and Court Service areas. [286076] Security Department (CHASE)-funded security project led by World Vision (see Bridget Prentice: HM Courts Service is currently above). evaluating the scheme in the county courts in the south Oxfam £102,072 in 2008-09 as one of the partners east of taking payments by credit and debit cards, of the £3 million PIVOT programme (to including the guidance. I am awaiting the results of the promote transparency on elections): project ran 2006-08. Working on a Conflict, evaluation and the recommendations on the way forward. Humanitarian and Security Department (CHASE)-funded security project led by Departmental Manpower World Vision (see above). Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Development Aid what percentage of employees in his Department are (a) women and (b) men; and what the average hourly Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for pay of his Department’s (i) male employees and (ii) International Development what estimate he has made female employees was in the latest period for which of the growth rate that would need to be sustained in figures are available. [287123] sub-Saharan Africa if that region is to meet the Millennium Development goals by 2015. [285394] Mr. Straw: The percentage breakdown by gender in MOJ (excluding NOMS) for staff below the SCS is Mr. Michael Foster: Developing countries need sustained (a) 68.43 per cent. female and (b) 31.57 per cent. male. economic growth to meet many of the millennium Based on data at 1 August 2008, the average hourly development goals, but growth has a particularly important pay of these male and female employees, calculated on part to play in helping to achieve the MDG 1 targets, basic pay only, is: 681W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 682W

increasingly hard to justify the use of public funds in £ this way. They have therefore proposed the introduction Male Female of a fee to use their visitors’ car park. The organisation London 15.70 14.79 is in the process of assessing the full extent of the car National 11.44 10.55 park running costs, and it is their intention that the income from the fee enables them to fully recover the costs. They are consulting with users, to gather their National Offender Management Scheme (NOMS) views on the level and structure of the charge. They will The percentage breakdown by gender of the work continue to provide free parking for holders of ‘blue force directly employed by NOMS, excluding SCS, is badges’. (a) 36 per cent. female and (b) 64 per cent. male. The following figures set out the number of unique Based on data for June 2009, the average hourly pay visitors to The National Archives at Kew in each of the of male and female employees in NOMS, calculated on last five years: basic pay only is: (i) £12.72 for male employees; Number of visitors (ii) £11.33 for female employees. 2004-05 103,257 Senior Civil Service (SCS) 2005-06 108,269 The percentage breakdown by gender for staff in the 2006-07 110,323 SCS (includes both MOJ and NOMS) is (a) 36 per 2007-08 192,855 cent. female and (b) 64 per cent. male. 2008-09 108,100 1 Between October 2007 and April 2008 there was a reduced service at Legal Aid Scheme Kew to allow for the refurbishment of their public services. Over the course of these years, the number of original Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State documents delivered on site has averaged 600,000 per for Justice with reference to the answer of 20 February year. At the same time, there has been a significant 2008 to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South increase in the number of documents delivered online and East Cleveland, Official Report, column 779W, on which, by the end of March 2009, had reached over 110 the legal aid scheme, what proportion of the million. population of England and Wales was eligible for civil legal aid in 2008. [286515] Repossession Orders: Mortgages

Bridget Prentice: Civil legal aid covers a number of Mr. Spring: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice different areas of civil and family justice, and the extent how many mortgage possession orders were made in to which applicants’ financial circumstances are taken each county court in the East of England in each of the into account in granting legal aid varies considerably last five years. [286267] across these areas. It is therefore not possible to give figures for the number of people eligible for civil legal Bridget Prentice: The following table shows the number aid as a whole. However, some estimates of the likely of mortgage possession orders made in the county number that would be eligible are available. courts of east of England Government office region for The estimated proportion of the population of England 2004 to 2008. and Wales who were eligible for civil legal aid, for These figures can also be obtained from the Ministry categories in which financial circumstances were taken of Justice website, released quarterly and can be viewed into account, was 29 per cent. in 2007. We do not have a at figure for 2008. In 2009, we estimate that the figure for http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ categories in which financial circumstances are taken mortgatelandlordpossession.htm into account is 36 per cent.. This increase in the eligible These figures do not indicate how many homes have proportion of the population is likely to be due to the actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur without effects of the recession plus the 5 per cent. increase in a court order being made while not all court orders the civil legal aid financial eligibility limits in April result in repossession. 2009. In 2007-08 civil legal aid helped over 1 million people with their civil and family legal problems. The civil procedure rules state that all claims for the repossession of land must be commenced in the district National Archives in which the land is situated. However, geographical boundaries of county courts may not necessarily be consistent with other administrative or constituency Mrs. Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice boundaries, and therefore any single court’s repossession (1) how much the National Archives expects to raise actions are likely to relate to homes in a different through the introduction of car parking charges at number of boroughs. Kew; [287175] 1 2, 3 (2) how many people visited the National Archives at Number of mortgage possession orders made in the county courts of the east of England Government office region, 2004 to 2008 Kew in each of the last five years. [287176] 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Mr. Wills: To date The National Archives has provided Basildon 612 910 1,048 1,050 1,198 free parking for visitors to Kew. This has in effect been Bedford 186 311 269 293 309 subsidised from their running costs budget. They are no Bury St. 124 191 220 235 263 longer in a position to continue this subsidy. In addition, Edmunds in the context of the Government’s green agenda, it is Cambridge 194 266 327 348 430 683W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 684W

Number of mortgage1 possession orders made2, 3 in the county courts 1 April 2009 (the date of the most recent pay review). of the east of England Government office region, 2004 to 2008 Employees at HM treasury are paid for 36 hours net per 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 week. Chelmsford 226 355 381 382 484 Men’s Colchester 385 542 695 778 1,009 average Women’s Harlow 183 258 310 335 379 hourly average Hertford 86 134 201 162 186 Percentage salary Percentage hourly Hitchin 183 288 323 350 376 Range/grade men (£) women salary (£) Huntingdon 121 153 229 174 232 B (AO) 26.9 10.15 73.1 10.63 Ipswich 224 287 358 328 421 C (EO) 41.8 12.35 58.2 12.88 King’s Lynn 165 273 378 375 463 D (HEO and 58.7 16.26 41.3 16.18 Lowestoft 197 297 284 286 388 SEO) Luton 458 718 858 820 946 E (Grades 7 62.6 26.01 37.4 25.16 Norwich 251 414 490 428 735 and 6) Peterborough 300 521 719 593 892 SCSI (Grade 5) 54.3 34.05 45.7 33.97 Southend- 416 620 657 606 760 SCS2 (Grade 3) 73.7 50.54 26.3 54.31 on-Sea SCS3 (Grade 2 100.0 75.18 0.0 — St. Albans 78 102 158 154 202 and above) Watford 258 418 516 515 661 East 4,647 7,058 8,421 8,212 10,334 Departmental Publications 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. 2 The court, following a judicial hearing, may grant an order for Grant Shapps: To ask the Chancellor of the possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a Exchequer how much it cost to produce each of his warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a warrant for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a Department’s publications in each of the last three compromise to prevent eviction. years. [280772] 3 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Separate publication costs within the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of individual campaign costs or report on individual titles suspension, which usually require the defendant to pay the current mortgage or rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the within total publications costs are not available. To possession order cannot be enforced. provide such information would involve disproportionate Source: costs. Ministry of Justice Energy:

Alan Simpson: To ask the Chancellor of the PRIME MINISTER Exchequer pursuant to the oral Statement of 22 April 2009, Official Report, column 248 on the 2009 Budget, Parliamentary Private Secretaries how much of the £405 million to support low-carbon energy production and advanced green manufacturing has been (a) allocated and (b) spent by each Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to (i) Department and (ii) programme. [286727] the Answer of 18 June 2009, Official Report, column 454W, on Parliamentary private secretaries, when the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Budget funding of £405 new list of Parliamentary Private Secretaries will be million was split as follows: published. [287297] £250 million through BIS as part of the strategic investment fund The Prime Minister: I have nothing further to add to the answer I gave the right hon. Member on 18 June £155 million through DECC. 2009, Official Report, column 454W. BIS (a) Allocated up to £163.5 million comprising: up to £120 million for the development of the offshore wind industry; £29.5 million for marine energy infrastructure TREASURY and test facilities; £10 million for low carbon vehicle infrastructure; £4 million for the manufacturing advisory service. The low carbon industrial strategy has more Departmental Manpower detail on these allocations. (b) These programmes have just been announced, so no Jo Swinson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer money has been spent yet. what percentage of employees in his Department are (a) women and (b) men; and what the average hourly DECC pay of his Department’s (i) male employees and (ii) (a) Allocated up to £81.2 million, comprising: up to female employees was in the latest period for which £22.5 million for the marine energy proving fund; up to figures are available. [287119] £10 million for the green villages, towns and cities challenge; up to £6 million renewable construction materials; Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The following table shows HM up to £6 million for ‘smart grid’ innovation; up to Treasury employees’ average hourly pay. Figures are £6 million for geothermal energy; up to £4 million for based on the numbers of full-time equivalent staff as at pay as you save pilots; up to £1.7 million for the 685W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 686W

Whitehall district heating scheme; up to £25 million No record could be found of staff being seconded towards the UK innovation investment fund. The Energy from the organisations listed to work on restructuring White paper and low carbon industrial strategy has of the financial sector. more detail on these allocations. (b) These programmes have just been announced, so no Financial Services: Regulation money has been spent yet. Harry Cohen: To ask the Chancellor of the Alan Simpson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will bring forward proposals to ensure Exchequer pursuant to the oral Statement of 22 April that non-executive directors of banks and other 2009, Official Report, column 248 on the 2009 Budget, financial institutions are not appointed by those if he will allocate a proportion of the £405 million in bodies. [286629] support of low-carbon energy production and advanced green manufacturing to phase 2 of the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Company directors are accountable low-carbon buildings programme. [286728] to shareholders for the execution of their duties under the Companies Act 2006. Shareholders are responsible Sarah McCarthy-Fry: £45 million of the £405 million for holding directors accountable for their performance has been made available to the low carbon building and stewardship and decide whether to appoint or programme. This funding has enabled phase two to be reappoint directors. The function of non-executive directors extended from 1 July 2009 until 30 April 2011 with a in banks and other financial institutions is being considered budget of £30 million. The extension will continue to by Sir David Walker as part of his review of bank provide grant funding to charitable, community groups corporate governance. Sir David’s consultation paper and public sector organisation projects. was published on 16 July 2009 and the Government will consider its recommendations carefully. Euro Steering Committee Imports Mr. Maude: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will place in the Library a copy of the minutes of Dr. Starkey: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the meeting of the Euro Steering Committee of 6 June how many consignments of goods were imported into 2007. [287359] the UK from Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory in the last 12 months for which Mr. Timms: The Government’s policy on membership figures are available. [287171] of the single currency remains unchanged. It remains as set out by the previous Chancellor in his statement to Mr. Timms: The information is not available. The the House of Commons in October 1997, and again in Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories his statement on the five tests assessment in June 2003. do not have a separate country of origin code from which HMRC can identify the imports concerned. Financial Services: City of London Importers can only declare Israel or the occupied Palestinian territory as the country of origin on customs import Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the declarations. Exchequer how much has been paid to City investment banks for advice on restructuring the financial sector in Dr. Starkey: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the last 12 months; and how many employees of such what estimate he has made of the monetary value of banks have been seconded to his Department to work goods exported from the UK to Israeli settlements in on that restructuring. [279350] the occupied Palestinian territory in the last 12 months for which figures are available. [287172] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Treasury’s accounting system does not separately identify spending with investments Mr. Timms: No estimate has been made. The Israeli banks. The following table shows spending with companies settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories do in 2008-09 that are known to be investment banks, but not have a separate country code. Consequently, it is this may not represent a complete list. not possible for HMRC to identify the exports concerned. Exporters can only declare Israel or the occupied Palestinian Organisation £ 000 territories as the country of destination on the customs export declaration. Deutsche Bank 41 Citigroup 1,922 Insurance: Motor Vehicles Credit Suisse 6,365 Morgan Stanley 1,501 Mrs. Riordan: To ask the Chancellor of the The figures are provisional as they form part of the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the Treasury’s Resource Account, which is subject to audit merits of preventing car insurance companies under- by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The majority settling claims through the practice of early settlement. of the sums listed relate to advice given to the Treasury [287060] on financial stability measures. Under a number of agreements with financial institutions, certain fees are Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I refer the hon. Member to the recoverable and the sums listed do not therefore represent answer given to her by the Economic Secretary to a net cost to the Treasury. the Treasury on 11 June 2009, Official Report, column 979W. 687W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 688W

Members: Correspondence The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority Ann Winterton: To ask the Chancellor of the to reply. Exchequer when he plans to respond to the letter of 10 Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated July 2009: February 2009, ref 5/04229/2009, on banking bonuses from the hon. Member for Congleton on behalf of her As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your constituent Mr. Pete Dobson. [280713] recent Parliamentary Question asking what the average earnings of people of working age was in (a) Jarrow constituency, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: A reply has been sent to the (b) South Tyneside and (c) the North East in each year since 1997. hon. Member. (286344) Average levels of earnings are estimated from the Annual Mr. Winnick: To ask the Chancellor of the Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), and are provided for all Exchequer when the Chief Executive of HM Revenue employees on adult rates of pay whose pay for the survey period and Customs plans to reply to the letter from the hon. was not affected by absence. The ASHE, carried out in April each Member for Walsall, North of 16 June 2009 on a year, is the most comprehensive source of earnings information in constituent, case reference 1685132723. [287041] the United Kingdom. It is a sample of all employees who are members of pay-as-you-earn (PAYE) schemes.

Mr. Timms: The chief executive of HM Revenue and Estimates for people of working age would only be available at Customs will arrange for a reply to be sent to him no disproportionate cost, but we have provided average weekly earnings later than the week commencing 27 July 2009. estimates for the breakdowns required for full-time and part-time employees. Nuclear Power: Costs Median gross weekly pay for full-time employee jobsa £ Alan Simpson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the average Jarrow cost to households of Exchequer funding and parliamentary South Tyneside constituency local authority North East allowances schemes provided for the nuclear industry in respect of (a) the production of nuclear energy and 1997 **290.4 *289.7 299.4 (b) nuclear waste disposal in each of the last three ** * years. [278405] 1998 314.3 314.7 302.4 1999 **324.3 *313.5 314.0 Mr. Kidney: I have been asked to reply. 2000 *325.3 *335.7 329.3

(a) There is no Exchequer funding and allowances ** * schemes provided for the nuclear industry in respect of 2001 350.9 351.0 333.7 the production of nuclear energy. 2002 *338.7 *325.6 344.8 (b) The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority’s mission 2003 *314.4 *331.4 348.4 to clean up and decommissioning the civil public nuclear 2004b**335.3 *379.7 372.9 legacy sites, which includes two operational Magnox nuclear power stations, is publicly funded through a 2004c**368.3 *380.5 370.2 mixture of direct government funding and commercial 2005 *371.4 *369.7 383.7 income from the remaining operational units on the d*** legacy sites. The cost of delivering the NDA’s mission is 2006 386.1 383.8 398.1 some £2.9 billion a year. The cost of the production of 2006e**384.5 *384.9 394.8 nuclear energy at the NDA’s Oldbury and Wylfa sites is 2007 *382.8 *382.7 404.3 met through the income generated, with the balance ** * used to offset the cost to the taxpayer of decommissioning 2008 401.1 408.5 420.6 the legacy. Median gross weekly pay for part-time employee jobsa In addition, as part of British Energy’s financial £ restructuring in 2005, the Government took responsibility Jarrow South Tyneside North East for British Energy’s historic nuclear fuel liabilities managed parliamentary local authority by BNFL (now managed by NDA) at an average cost of constituency some £200 million per annum for the first 10 years, and ** falling thereafter, until 2029. The Nuclear Liabilities 1997 x— 82.2 83.5 Fund has also made payments related to the cost of 1998 x— x— 84.6 nuclear waste disposal and decommissioning of £3.5 million 1999 x— **92.4 91.4 in the year to 31 March 2009. 2000 x— **90.3 95.0 2001 x— **99.1 100.4 Pay: North East 2002 x— **109.2 110.8 2003 x— **104.5 116.1 Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Chancellor of the 2004b x— **122.4 123.8 Exchequer what the average earnings of people of 2004c x— **119.1 122.0 working age was in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South 2005 x— **125.7 127.3 Tyneside and (c) the North East in each year since 2006d**119.2 **105.3 132.8 1997. [286344] 2006e x— **107.6 132.9 2007 x— **126.1 138.4 Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. 2008 **127.0 **140.7 143.0 689W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 690W

Notes: Carer’s Allowance a Employees on adult rates whose pay for the survey pay-period was not affected by absence. Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for b 2004 results excluding supplementary survey for comparison with Work and Pensions what steps her Department takes to 2003. c 2004 results including supplementary surveys designed to improve monitor the adequacy of level of carer’s allowance in d 2006 results with methodology consistent with 2005. meeting costs incurred by carers. [287926] e 2006 results with methodology consistent with 2007. Guide to quality Jonathan Shaw: Carer’s allowance provides a measure The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of a figure, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to of financial support for carers who give up the chance lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an average of 200 with a of full-time employment in order to look after a severely CV of 5 per cent. we would expect the population average to be within disabled relative, friend or neighbour. It is an income- the range 180 to 220. maintenance benefit and is not designed to cover any Key: costs arising from a person’s caring responsibilities. CV <= 5% *CV>5%and<=10% Children: Maintenance **CV>10%and<=20% XCV>20% Source: Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), Office for National Work and Pensions with reference to paragraph 13 of Statistics. 1997 to 2008 the National Audit Office report, Child Support Public Bodies Agency—Implementation of the Child Support Reforms, HC1174, Session 2005-06, how many cases Robert Neill: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer are now estimated to be stuck in the system. [279055] (1) what the (a) terms of reference are and (b) Helen Goodman: The Child Maintenance and timetable is for his Department’s review of quangos; Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child [286647] maintenance system. I have therefore asked the Child (2) if he will place in the Library a copy of the recent Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member letter sent by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to with the information requested. Government departments on reviewing quangos. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: [286648] In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive Mr. Byrne: On 3 July 2009 I announced that a review reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child of arms length bodies would be taken forward as part Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance of the Public Value Programme. The pre-Budget report and Enforcement Commission. will provide a progress report on the Public Value You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, with Programme. reference to paragraph 13 of the National Audit Office report Child Support Agency—Implementation of the Child Support Taxation: Imports Reforms published on 30 June 2006 how many cases are now estimated to be stuck in the system. [279055] Dr. Starkey: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The paragraph from the 2006 National Audit office report you how much has been received by the Exchequer in duties have referenced sets out the Agency’s estimate of the number of collected from companies importing goods into the cases at the end of March 2006 affected by problems in the UK from Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian Agency’s computer system which require cases to be progressed clerically. The Commission continues to publish information on territory in the last 12 months for which figures are the number of cases which are processed wholly clerically in available. [287170] Table 20 of the Child Support Agency’s Quarterly Summary of Statistics; a copy of which is available in the House of Commons Mr. Timms: In the 12 months ending 31 March 2009, library, or online at: HM Revenue and Customs have issued demands for www.childmaintenance.org/publications/statistics.html £21,494 customs duty on products imported into the The number of cases the Agency managed wholly clerically at UK from Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian the end of March 2009 was 60,000. Although the need to progress territory under the provisions of the EC-Israel Association such cases clerically is not ideal, they should not be seen as stuck Agreement. as around £1 million in child maintenance is now collected each week for these cases. Upgrades to the Agency’s computer system one of which was also mentioned in paragraph 13 of the National Audit Office WORK AND PENSIONS report and implemented successfully in September 2008 have reduced the incidence of cases being affected by problems and Attendance Allowance made it possible to identify and address problems more easily. At the end of March 2009, an estimated 27,500 cases which remain Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for on the computer system also require partial clerical action to keep Work and Pensions what percentage of adults over maintenance flowing to children. As the Agency continues to improve its client service, increasing the number of cases receiving the age of 65 years she estimates were eligible for maintenance, any additional cases identified are immediately attendance allowance in (a) Vale of York and (b) investigated and either progressed clerically or the issue is resolved England in (i) 1997, (ii) 2001 (iii) 2005 and (iv) 2008. to allow the case to be wholly managed by the Agency’s computer [286004] system. The number of cases managed clerically will therefore continue Jonathan Shaw: We are unable to estimate the percentage to rise in the medium term and information on the numbers so of adults over the age of 65 years who may be eligible progressed will be published. for attendance allowance. I hope you find this answer helpful. 691W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 692W

Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Information Work and Pensions how much (a) debt and (b) cumulative debt resulting from arrears attributed Mrs. Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to the non-resident parent accrued to the Child and Pensions how many requests for communications Support Agency in each year since 1993. [279844] data were made by her Department and its agencies to communication service providers (CSPs) under section 1 of the Social Security Fraud Act 2001 in Helen Goodman [holding answer 15 June 2009]: The (a) 2001, (b) 2002, (c) 2003, (d) 2004, (e) 2005, Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is (f) 2006, (g) 2007 and (h) 2008; and how many of responsible for the child maintenance system. I have these requests resulted in the requested therefore asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner communications data being disclosed by the relevant to write to the hon. Member with the information CSP. [284874] requested. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Helen Goodman [holding answer 7 July 2009]: The information requested is not collated centrally and could In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Housing Benefit: Greater London Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how Pensions how many housing benefit claims were made much (a) debt and (b) cumulative debt resulting from arrears attributed to the non-resident parent accrued to the Child Support by residents in each London local authority in 2007-08; Agency in each year since 1993. [279844] and how many of these were made in respect of (a) private sector tenancies, (b) social rented The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission regularly tenancies, (c) in-work claims by private tenants and publish information on the amount of child maintenance arrears (d) in-work claims by social tenants. [284714] outstanding at the end of each year as well as the overall growth in debt each year in Table 22 of the Child Support Agency Quarterly Summary of Statistics (QSS). This information is only Helen Goodman: The information is not available in available from April 1999. the format requested. The available information is in the following table. The latest copy of the Quarterly Summary of Statistics is available in the House of Commons library or online at: Number of housing benefit claimants by tenure: Great Britain, London local authorities, August 2007 www.childmaintenance.org/publications/statistics.html Housing Housing benefit benefit The information that you have requested on the amount of Housing claimants with claimants with arrears accruing in each year is not included in this table and the benefit private social rented Agency can only provide an estimate for each year from March claimants tenancies tenancies 2007. The attached table sets out both the estimated amount of new child maintenance arrears accruing in each year and the Great Britain 4,040,940 940,600 3,100,350 estimated amount by which arrears have been reduced. Arrears London 698,340 155,340 543,010 can be reduced either through repayment or where information Barking 18,410 3,530 14,880 has been provided to allow the case to be reassessed and the amount of arrears subsequently restated. Barnet 21,780 8,830 12,950 Bexley 11,620 2,780 8,850 I hope you find this answer helpful. Brent 28,230 8,210 20,020 Child Maintenance Arrears Bromley 15,860 3,880 11,980 March Camden 27,990 4,090 23,900 2007 2008 2009 City of London 1,170 70 1,100 Croydon 26,690 10,510 16,190 Arrears total 3.67 3.79 3.84 (£ billion) Ealing 24,610 7,000 17,610 Arrears increase n/a 484 405 Enfield 25,090 9,650 15,450 (£ million) Greenwich 25,310 3,750 21,560 Arrears reduction n/a -363 -362 Hackney 35,010 5,460 29,540 (£ million) Hammersmith 20,380 3,190 17,190 Notes: and Fulham 1. Movement in arrears components is based on an estimate from Haringey 30,980 8,070 22,920 internal figures and is only available from March 2007, so only two Harrow 12,490 3,650 8,840 years of information can be provided. 2. Arrears on each case have been calculated in the year to March Havering 11,160 2,530 8,630 2007, March 2008 and March 2009. From this, each case has been Hillingdon 15,970 4,280 11,690 classified as seeing an increase or a decrease in arrears across each Hounslow 17,070 3,830 13,240 year. The value of this increase or reduction has also been Islington 28,840 2,210 26,630 calculated. 3. This will only take into account the net arrears movement across Kensington 16,060 2,700 13,360 the year and may miss some payments that have subsequently been and Chelsea cancelled out by further increases in debt within the year. Kingston upon 7,250 2,010 5,230 4. The figures for March 2009 are at the time of answering this Thames question un-audited internal figures and are subject to revision Lambeth 35,070 5,230 29,840 which will be published in the CSA Annual Report and Accounts for Lewisham 29,100 6,050 23,050 2008-09. Merton 10,570 2,470 8,100 693W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 694W

Number of housing benefit claimants by tenure: Great Britain, London Average weekly amount of housing benefit by tenure: Great Britain, local authorities, August 2007 London local authorities, August 2007 Housing Housing £ benefit benefit Average amount of weekly housing benefit Housing claimants with claimants with for: benefit private social rented Social rented claimants tenancies tenancies Private tenancies tenancies Newham 33,520 9,440 24,080 Hillingdon 140.75 108.43 Redbridge 14,630 5,690 8,940 Hounslow 139.06 86.48 Richmond 8,080 1,900 6,170 Islington 141.71 90.18 upon Thames Kensington and 196.59 109.51 Southwark 34,560 3,180 31,380 Chelsea Sutton 9,740 2,600 7,140 Kingston upon 144.90 99.91 Tower Hamlets 32,040 2,530 29,510 Thames Waltham 22,140 6,090 16,050 Lambeth 122.30 91.09 Forest Lewisham 158.32 81.54 Wandsworth 23,200 5,430 17,770 Merton 153.14 78.64 Westminster 23,730 4,510 19,220 Newham 137.18 132.60 Notes: Redbridge 140.82 132.35 1. The data refers to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. Richmond upon 149.38 88.76 2. Housing benefit figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Thames 3. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. Southwark 127.50 80.78 4. Housing benefit figures exclude any extended payment cases. Sutton 133.38 77.90 5. From February 2007, DWP has been collecting more detailed Tower Hamlets 161.49 97.04 HB/CTB data electronically from local authorities. Over time this will improve the accuracy, timeliness and level of detail available in the Waltham Forest 115.44 91.93 published statistics. However, until the new data have been fully Wandsworth 192.46 97.76 quality assured to National Statistics standards, the most recent Westminster 197.87 135.70 summary statistics available are for August 2007. Notes: Source: 1. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information 2. Housing benefit figures exclude any extended payment cases. System Quarterly 100 per cent. case load stock-count taken in August 3. Average amounts are rounded to the nearest penny. 2007. 4. From February 2007, DWP has been collecting more detailed HB/CTB data electronically from local authorities. Over time this Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and will improve the accuracy, timeliness and level of detail available in Pensions what the average housing benefit payment the published statistics. However, until the new data have been fully was in each London local authority area in respect of quality assured to National Statistics standards, the most recent (a) private and (b) social rented accommodation in summary statistics available are for August 2007. Source: 2007-08. [284715] Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information System Quarterly 100 per cent. case load stock-count taken in Helen Goodman: The available information is in the August 2007. following table. Average weekly amount of housing benefit by tenure: Great Britain, London local authorities, August 2007 £ Jobseeker’s Allowance: Employment Schemes Average amount of weekly housing benefit for: Social rented Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Private tenancies tenancies and Pensions what proportion of jobseeker’s allowance claimants started a work trial in each of the last six Great Britain 89.87 65.84 months. [282443] London 146.39 98.50 Barking 139.46 80.93 Barnet 156.51 101.78 Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a Bexley 126.23 87.71 matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Brent 156.49 118.91 Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Bromley 130.08 86.42 Member with the information requested. Camden 156.82 100.86 Letter from Mel Groves: City of London 135.93 83.43 The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question Croydon 137.64 86.59 asking what proportion of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) claimants Ealing 151.34 110.77 started a Work Trial in each of the last six months. This is Enfield 144.75 113.53 something which falls within the responsibilities delegated to me Greenwich 125.21 78.15 as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Hackney 151.74 90.88 Please find attached at Annex 1 the number of JSA customers Hammersmith and 156.85 97.79 who started Work Trials compared to the number of customers Fulham claiming JSA in each of the last six months. Haringey 131.86 121.78 Work Trials and other successful policy interventions have Harrow 163.10 109.31 contributed to an average of 269,000 people leaving JSA each Havering 114.10 71.75 month in the past 6 months. 695W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 696W

Annex 1—proportion of JSA customers who started a work trial Alicante; what the objectives of her Department’s Number of campaign against benefit fraud in Alicante are; and if JSA Proportion of she will make a statement. [277049] customers Number of JSA work trial starting work customers starts Month trial claiming JSA (percentage) Helen Goodman: Information relating to the annual sum lost as a result of benefit fraud in Alicante is not December 2008 1,397 1,117,540 0.001 available. January 2009 1,491 1,243,085 0.001 There are estimated to be over a million British February 2009 1,967 1,416,238 0.001 people living in Spain, and while the vast majority are March 2009 2,365 1,478,222 0.002 law abiding citizens, there will unfortunately be a small April 2009 1,845 1,510,781 0.001 minority committing benefit fraud. The objectives of May 2009 2,837 1,516,952 0.002 our campaign in Spain are: Source: To raise awareness of abroad fraud; and, BOXI management information, NOMIS to track down benefit thieves abroad. Pensioners: Poverty Written Questions: Government Responses

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions how many pensioners in (a) Essex and Work and Pensions when she plans to answer Question (b) Castle Point were in relative poverty in each of the 274721, tabled on 12 May 2009, on maintenance last five years. [275487] payments. [278038]

Angela Eagle: The data source does not allow us to Helen Goodman [holding answer 4 June 2009]: I provide robust numbers for estimates below the level of replied to the hon. Member’s question on 13 July 2009, Government office region. Official Report, column 52W. PSA17 includes a range of indicators related to low income for pensioners. These are relative low income Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for (below 50 and 60 per cent. contemporary median household Work and Pensions when she plans to provide a income), and absolute low income (below 60 per cent. substantive answer to Question 274721, tabled on of 1998-99 median income uprated in line with prices), 7 May 2009, on child maintenance. [283746] all measured after housing costs have been taken into account. Helen Goodman [holding answer 2 July 2009]: I Latest information for east of England, Government replied to the hon. Member’s question on 13 July 2009, office region, is based on three year averages. There Official Report, column 52W. were around 0.2 million pensioners in the east of England below 60 per cent. of contemporary median income HOME DEPARTMENT threshold between 2001-04 and 2005-07. During the same period, around 0.1 million pensioners in the east Calais of England were below 50 per cent. of contemporary median income threshold. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the However, between 2001-04 and 2005-07, the percentage Home Department what the objectives were of the of pensioners in the east of England being below the Minister for Immigration’s recent visit to Calais; and if 60 per cent. of contemporary median income, after he will make a statement. [285930] housing costs, has fallen from 25 per cent. to 16 per Mr. Woolas: The UK continues to face significant cent. The number of pensioners in relative poverty has pressure from illegal migrants attempting to reach our remained unchanged due to the increase in the pensioner shores from the Channel and North Sea coast of France. population in the east of England. This continuous pressure calls for determined, mutual effort to tackle illegal immigration by the UK and Social Security Benefits France. At the UK-France summit in Evian on 6 July, the Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for UK agreed to invest a further £15 million to strengthen Work and Pensions what the monetary value of all United Kingdom border controls at Calais, and other benefit payments made to residents of (a) the Vale of juxtaposed controls in France. The French and British York and (b) England was in (i) 1980, (ii) 1997, Governments declared a joint commitment to effect a (iii) 2001, (iv) 2005 and (v) 2008. [287416] significant increase in enforced return of illegal migrants through their national programmes and through joint Helen Goodman: The requested information is not returns activity as appropriate. available and could be obtained only at disproportionate A copy of the Franco-British Declaration on cost. Immigration has been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Social Security Benefits: Fraud Departmental Contracts Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Home Department which services his Department has and Pensions what estimate she has made of the outsourced in each of the last five years; and if he will average annual sum lost as a result of benefit fraud in make a statement. [274446] 697W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 698W

Mr. Woolas: The Home Office has not outsourced (3) which of the planned databases that will be any of its services within the last five years. managed by his Department or one of its agencies and which will hold personal information on members of Departmental Data Protection the public are expected to become operational in each of the next five years; and if he will make a statement; Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the [286146] Home Department (1) how many attempts were made (4) what categories of personal information on to gain unauthorised access to each (a) database and members of the public will be held on each of his (b) ICT system run by his Department in each of the Department’s and its agency’s databases expected to last three years; and if he will make a statement; become operational in the next five years; what [286554] estimate he has made of the likely number of (2) how many successful attempts were made to gain individuals’ details each such database will hold when unauthorised access to each (a) database and (b) ICT fully operational; and if he will make a statement. system run by his Department in each of the last three [286497] years; and if he will make a statement. [286555] Mr. Woolas: In line with the Hannigan recommendations, Mr. Woolas: The Security Policy Framework, the the Home Office holds a register of information assets. Data Handling Report and the National Information Any Home Office information asset register/database Assurance Strategy produced by the Cabinet Office which contains personal data adheres to the Data Protection provide a strategic framework for protecting information Act. that Government handles and put in place a set of The information requested would require contacting mandatory measures to which departments must adhere. each information asset owner and asking them to provide It is not in the interest of the security of the department, any relevant information as appropriate. To identify or that of the public, to disclose detailed information accurately all Home Office databases and categories of relating to electronic breaches of security of departmental personal information would take significant resource IT systems. Disclosing such information would carry a time to undertake and complete. The information requested significant risk of enabling criminals and those who can therefore be provided only at disproportionate cost. would attempt to cause disruptive threats to the department to deduce how to conduct attacks and therefore potentially Departmental Electronic Equipment enhance their capability to carry out such attacks. To help defend against electronic attack, it is standard Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the good information security practice not to comment on Home Department how many (a) photocopiers, such incidents. (b) scanning devices and (c) fax machines, excluding multi-function devices, there are in his Department; Departmental Databases how many there were in each of the last three years; and if he will make a statement. [286171] Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what information databases his Mr. Woolas: There is not a central register of these Department (a) maintains and (b) uses which do not items as they are purchased by local business units and contain personal information. [284391] to provide an answer to this question would incur costs in excess of the threshold. Mr. Woolas: In line with the Hannigan recommendations, the Home Office holds a register of information assets. Departmental Internet Any Home Office information asset register/database which contains personal data adheres to the Data Protection Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Act. Home Department when his Department plans to The information requested would require contacting update its web browsers from Internet Explorer 6. each information asset owner and asking them to provide [285013] any relevant information as appropriate. To identify accurately all Home Office information databases and Mr. Woolas: For Home Office Core, United Kingdom their uses which do not contain personal information Border Agency and Criminal Records Bureau, there is a would take significant resource time to undertake and project under way which includes the upgrade from complete. This information can therefore be provided Internet Explorer 6; the current timing for this part of only at disproportionate cost. the project is February 2010. IPS has recently signed a 10-year contract, the Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the Application and Enrolment (A & E contract), with Home Department (1) what categories of personal Computer Science Corporation (CSC) for the provision information on members of the public are contained of IT services including desktop. As part of this contract, on each database which contains such data managed by there is an 18-month programme called ″Technical his Department and its agencies; when each category of Transformation″ within which there are several components information was first collected; and if he will make a including the roll-out of a new standard desktop. statement; [284897] Deployment of this new desktop, which includes (2) what databases managed by his Department and Internet Explorer 7, is due to take place in a phased its agencies hold personal information on members of approach around the middle of 2010. A precise date for the public; on what date each such database became the start of this new desktop roll-out has not yet been operational; and if he will make a statement; [285973] agreed. 699W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 700W

Departmental Lost Property Departmental Work Experience

Mr. Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many laptop computers Home Department how many (a) paid and (b) unpaid belonging to (a) his Department and (b) its agencies graduate internships his Department has awarded in have been lost or stolen in the last five years. [281056] each of the last six months. [281519]

Mr. Woolas: The Home Office can only provide Mr. Woolas: The information requested on paid and information on lost and stolen laptops from 2005 onwards. unpaid graduate internships is not currently recorded In 2005 14 laptops were lost/stolen but it has not been centrally in the Home Office or its agencies. Internships possible to provide a breakdown of this figure by are authorised and organised locally by managers in Department/agency.The remaining information requested business units. is set out in the following table: The Home Office provides around 30 placements Lost/stolen laptops annually, during July through September, to graduates Home and undergraduates who are from a minority ethnic Office core UKBA IPS CRB background and/or have a registered disability, through 2006 5 8 1 0 the civil service fast stream summer placement schemes. 2007 6 8 1 0 They are paid an allowance at executive officer minimum 2008 8 13 8 0 rate.

Departmental Mobile Phones Deportation: Bexley

Mr. Hoban: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many (a) BlackBerry devices Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the and (b) mobile telephones have been lost by (i) Home Department how many foreign nationals Ministers, (ii) special advisers and (iii) civil servants in resident in (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency and (b) the London Borough of Bexley were deported his Department in each year since 2005. [274458] in each of the last five years; and how many of those had committed a crime in the UK. [286695] Mr. Woolas: Reports of losses by civil servants and special advisers are not recorded separately. Mr. Woolas: The information requested is not readily Blackberries available and could be obtained only at disproportionate 2005 2006 2007 2008 cost. The chief executive of the UK Border Agency has Ministers 1—000regularly written to Home Affairs Select Committee in Civil Servants and 1—891— order to provide them with all the robust and accurate Special Advisers information available relating to foreign national criminals. Copies of these letters are available in the Library of the Mobiles House. 2005 2006 2007

Ministers 0 0 0 Deportation: Democratic Republic of Congo Civil Servants and 26 7 43 Special Advisers 1 Less then 5. Where there have been less then five such cases it is the Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for the policy of the Home Office to suppress this information on grounds Home Department what reports his Department has of confidentiality. received on the safety of deportees removed to the The figures for lost mobile telephones in 2008 are Democratic Republic of Congo in the last two years. currently unavailable and we will inform the hon. Member [286763] when available. Mr. Woolas [holding answer 14 July 2009]: The UK Departmental Public Expenditure Border Agency continually monitors the situation in asylum claimants’ countries of origin by making reference Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for the to a wide range of authoritative, publicly available Home Department what estimate he has made of his sources. Department’s capital underspend in 2009-10; and how In addition, the UK Border Agency works closely much of that sum he proposes to return to the with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to ensure Exchequer. [284324] that it has the best available information. The British embassy in Kinshasa speaks regularly with a network of Mr. Woolas: The Home Office, as with other local contacts about the treatment of failed asylum Departments, has regular discussions with the Treasury seekers on return to the Democratic Republic of Congo about its financial needs. These discussions cover the and will make inquiries about any specific allegations financial challenges facing the Department and include that arise. This network includes Congolese non- the resources associated with major programmes and governmental organisations, Congolese civil servants whether there may be the risk of either over or and Government Ministers, and colleagues from other underspending. embassies in Kinshasa. 701W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 702W

Entry Clearances Mr. Woolas: I regret to inform the hon. Member that any information contained in applications to the Home Office is treated as being confidential and is not normally John Barrett: To ask the Secretary of State for the disclosed to third parties. This is, of course, unless they Home Department when the visa enquiry section of are authorised representatives of the applicant. I hope the British Consulate in Cairo plans to reply to the that you will understand that this is not a question of correspondence from the hon. Member for Edinburgh, secrecy for its own sake, but simply a matter of protecting West of 11 June 2009 on Manal Mohmed Abdalla. the privacy of the individual. [282941] My Department is writing in confidence separately to the hon. Member. Mr. Woolas: Visa staff at our visa section in Cairo have no record of receiving a letter from the hon. Entry Clearances: Applications Member concerning Miss Abdalla. The only letter from the hon. Member visa staff have seen was part of an Mr. Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for the appeal bundle received from the applicant, addressed to Home Department how many visa applications were the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal in the UK. The (a) received, (b) issued and (c) refused in each year AIT is independent of the UK Border Agency and from 1997 to 2008. [267773] handles its own correspondence. Mr. Woolas [holding answer 30 March 2009]: I refer Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for the the right hon. Member to the visa statistics published in Home Department what explanation his Department UK Visas’ annual reports for the financial years 2004-05 has received from the British High Commission in to 2007-08, available on our Visa Services website at: Delhi on its refusal to issue a visa to Harvinder Singh www.ukvisas.gov.uk Bhandal, ref 2572710; and whether his Department has Reliable data are not held for previous years. issued further guidance to the High Commission on this case subsequent to the initial approval of the Entry Clearances: Overseas Students application. [284306] Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many applications for overseas Mr. Woolas [holding answer 3 July 2009]: I have seen student visas from people of each nationality were the reasons for refusal as set out in the refusal notice, refused in each month (a) since 31 March 2009 and (b) which in my view is comprehensive. between 31 March 2008 and 30 March 2009. [280661]

Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Mr. Woolas [holding answer 18 June 2009]: The State for the Home Department if he will review the following table details how many applications for overseas decision to refuse entry clearance to Mr McDonald student visas from people of each nationality were Adolphus Lewis, ref GV100/145918; and if he will refused in each month (a) since 31 March 2009 and make a statement. [285664] (b) between 31 March 2008 and 30 March 2009.

Reporting period 2008 2009 Grand Nationality Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun total

Afghanistan 15 47 28 27 30 45 33 31 20 23 31 15 14 21 6 8 394 Albania 13 35 7 15 30 38 38 21 11 21 12 11 5 3 6 10 276 Algeria 22 24 13 6 22 28 72 14 31 85 80 42 37 21 7 8 512 Andorra ————— — 0——— — ———— 0 0 Angola 055121515161281612103123135 Anguilla ———— 0 — 0— 0— — ————— 0 Antigua 00001 0 0000—————— 1 and Barbuda Argentina511320 3273 2 3434447 Armenia 10000 4 1502 0 1200117 Australia200161110234 6 11262580 Azerbaijan04205 5 7819 5 1010553 Bahamas —1000 1 0000 1 0012612 Bahrain 01101 0 0100 2 1011312 Bangladesh 571 624 570 516 573 557 800 364 236 131 302 1,042 765 454 62 81 7,648 Barbados 01000 5 0152 4 1212226 Belarus 7 12 17 19 12 19 11 11 7 12 9 8 10 3 2 12 171 Belize—0—110 0000 0 0—0002 Benin 10216 2 7332 7 3121344 Bhutan —0110 1 01—1 0 00——0 5 Bolivia32532 1 548128 46661085 703W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 704W

Reporting period 2008 2009 Grand Nationality Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun total

Bosnia 11013 3 0102 0 0000113 And Herzegovina Botswana 17 13 17 13 13 16 16 11 3 3 8 34100138 Brazil 131 84 91 69 98 102 75 67 101 44 113 66 108 71 136 117 1473 British 01120 1 0—000 00——— 5 Citizen British ————— — 0——— — ————— 0 Dependent Territories Citizen British 234411222252722024712129 National Overseas British 0 1—— 0 0 0——— — ————— 1 Overseas Citizen British ——— 0— — ———— — ————— 0 Protected Person Brunei 0 — — 0 1 0 3 3 0 1 0 0 0 — 0 0 8 Bulgaria———— 0 — ———— — ————— 0 Burkina00211 4 3103 0 02——017 Burma 22 18 13 22 12 17 32 13 8 22 33 14 6 4 18 2 256 (Myanmar) Burundi 01111 0 0020 0 11——0 8 Cambodia 10002 1 2000 0 000—39 Cameroon 49 64 37 51 38 122 247 120 52 78 83 33 59 13 12 35 1093 Canada 23224 8167164 240102697 Cape 00001 0 01——1—20——5 Verde Cayman 0———— — 0——— — ————— 0 Islands Central 110—00—102 0 01—006 African Republic Chad 0 1 1 — 0 0 2 1 2 2 2 1 — — 1 0 13 Chile11100 0 1004 5 21061234 China 480 542 546 584 838 1,134 1,223 499 482 535 503 318 250 294 445 317 8990 Colombia 46 66 37 71 81 82 95 45 44 55 61 54 110 74 168 108 1,197 Comoros — 1——— — 1 1 0 1 1 —— 0—— 5 Congo 13 13 7 8 8 19 42 35 24 22 18 14 11 8 3 3 248 Costa —0—000 0—001 00——0 1 Rica Croatia12333 0 4100 4 2310027 Cuba 21112 1 2130 0 3210020 Cyprus — —000 1 1110 0—1——1 6 Czech ————— 0 ———— — ————— 0 Republic Democratic 318681712725 4 6241490 Republic of Congo Denmark ————— — ———— — ——— 0— 0 Djibouti ———— 0 1 0 1 0 0 2 2 0 0—— 6 Dominica 11000 0 2011 1 0—0108 Dominican 10011 0 0021 4 0020113 Republic Ecuador 10 7 13 12 12 6 10 12 0 19 15 945523162 Egypt 7 14 8 9 19 28 35 24 3 5 21 15 16 25 29 36 294 El ———010 0—000 2—0003 Salvador Equatorial 0111—2 0121 1 01——011 Guinea Eritrea 00132 3 1102 1 440——22 Estonia————— — ——— 1 — ————— 1 Ethiopia222121023255 2 4311772 Fiji10000 0 1012 4 10——— 10 Gabon20—2—0 8542 3 131——31 705W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 706W

Reporting period 2008 2009 Grand Nationality Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun total

Gambia 20 54 18 41 53 71 130 61 15 40 144 52 55 11 25 24 814 Georgia 21 22 10 8 18 24 25 32 20 12 26 35 16 21 3 9 302 Ghana 63 68 57 71 134 217 397 146 50 65 152 68 63 16 12 23 1,602 Greece ————— — ———— 0 ————— 0 Grenada 02201 0 1001 1 0—10110 Guatemala00010 0 0001 0 001——3 Guinea 15 12 8 10 7 16 22 25 22 16 8 12 21 2 6 3 205 Guinea- 20003 4 2100 0 1———— 13 Bissau Guyana11001 0 7211 0 1110017 Haiti00011 0 1020 1 0—118 Honduras 00000 0 0000— 1——012 Hong 320891619604 8 0171427124 Kong Iceland ————— — 0——— — ————— 0 India 616 721 707 662 983 1,263 1,761 1,127 829 751 1,857 2,127 1,106 1168 851 2,050 1,8579 Indonesia 15379 6 69331222112990 Iran 123 79 51 77 80 82 111 126 79 118 101 110 102 87 59 64 1,449 Iraq22247141820151813156 576619215 Israel57869 4149507 3112384 Italy————— 0 — 0—— — — 0——— 0 Ivory 8 15 13 11 6 11 27 15 14 15 20 14 18 4 6 3 200 Coast Jamaica 4 4 12 5 15 14 39 12 2 5 4 65206135 Japan52031 8 5334 5 469243128429 Jordan14111031125291610109 24786175 Kazakhstan 77512437272226121413161123227 Kenya 27 22 10 17 37 93 151 38 18 39 53 18 21 13 3 7 567 Kiribati ————— — ———— — ——010 1 Korea ———— 0 0 0— 0 0 — — 0—— 0 0 (North) Kosovo0——000 0——0 7 3457329 Kuwait2213236432536 9 1281622181 Kyrgyzstan 15 6 6 6 14 13 11 13 3 11 11 9 27 7 3 7 162 Laos 0 0 — 0 0 0 0 1 0 — — ————— 1 Lebanon 69111091311636 6316596 Lesotho — —111 0 2100 1 2100010 Liberia22000 5 5431 1 001 024 Libya 63 73 43 48 69 66 82 65 43 59 63 102 112 120 180 70 1,258 Macau 10001 1 41—0 1 00——— 9 Macedonia 0 2 12 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0003831 Madagascar 03000 0 1200 1 00011 9 Malawi532921313964694017472719166 4 3485 Malaysia 36 54 49 52 105 176 200 52 35 41 33 28 26 29 81 61 1,058 Maldives20307 8 3112 2 7012342 Mali72243 5 0569 3 7215263 Mauritania10—005 2110 0 1210317 Mauritius 52 49 17 34 33 65 78 31 15 39 35 38 24 11 10 13 544 Mexico 6 32 12 14 33 16 59 2 23 18 20 11 6 6 6 90 354 Moldova134767131314108 3 210236121 Monaco ———— 0 0 0——— — 0 0——— 0 Mongolia 108 107 57 54 69 102 103 73 72 33 81 59 16 46 7 36 1,023 Montenegro ———— 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 0 1— 0 1 5 Morocco 54292242112149171010154020214 Mozambique 25406 1 2100 1 0101024 Namibia 10003 5 3113 2 3101024 Nauru 0 — 1 — — — — — — — — ————— 1 Nepal 330 169 151 129 121 171 136 97 48 44 149 82 61 29 55 298 2,070 New 00011 2 0150 1 0002720 Zealand Nicaragua10011 0 0010 0 0——0—4 Niger12114 2 6633 1 1100133 Nigeria 901 777 708 646 2,447 3,033 4,023 1,311 861 1,810 2,542 1,136 1,188 673 315 333 2,2704 707W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 708W

Reporting period 2008 2009 Grand Nationality Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun total

Niue————— — ———— — — 0——— 0 None 0———— 1 0——— 0 0———— 1 Norway—0000——————————— 0 Oman 00000 6 4130 4 1010121 Pakistan 1,245 2,141 1,608 885 1,506 2,061 2,737 2,385 1,637 1,239 3,063 2,953 2,090 1,006 356 376 2,7288 Palestinian ——— 0— 0 0——— — — 0——— 0 Authority Panama 01031 0 2000 0 0113214 Papua ———— 0 0 0 0—— 1 0———— 1 New Guinea Paraguay00000 0 0—001 10——— 2 Peru 12 6 6 5 10 5 5 3 4 17 12 5 8 9 12 28 147 Philippines 99 192 172 145 236 388 597 505 724 484 580 489 586 351 357 174 6,079 Pitcairn 0———— — ———— — ————— 0 Islands Poland— 0 1— 0 0 ———— — ————— 1 Portugal ————— — — 0—— — ————— 0 Qatar00001 1 0010 0 111013937 Refugee ——0020—————————— 2 (Art 1 1951 Convention) Romania — — — 0 0 0 0 — — 0 0 ————— 0 Russia 24 62 40 49 68 97 129 71 52 75 58 45 60 28 23 42 923 Rwanda 01213 4 6104 3 5311035 San — 0——— — — 1—— — ————— 1 Marino Sao Tome —0—000 2210 1 000——6 and Principe Saudi 5 15 16 11 33 19 31 12 12 7 13 27 34 32 193 251 711 Arabia Senegal 16 15 9 3 16 5 15 21 4 39 33 13 17 4 13 8 231 Serbia 00000 0 0101 0 30001 6 Seychelles ————— — 0— 1 0 1 0 1 0— 1 4 Sierra 23 28 20 15 22 60 68 36 16 34 46 30 22 9 11 6 446 Leone Singapore0425244925623 5 36248148 Solomon ——— 0— 0 ———— — ————— 0 Islands Somalia 0 0 — 0 1 2 1 1 0 1 0 2 1 1 — 2 12 South 27 31 22 25 40 82 57 29 8 8 13 15 12 5 3 8 385 Africa South 40 72 35 59 135 145 157 68 46 59 67 74 34 74 167 120 1352 Korea Sri Lanka 231 179 190 307 137 173 545 156 233 251 278 553 179 456 313 364 4,545 St. Kitts ———000 0000———00—0 And Nevis St. Lucia 10122 3 6324 0 1100228 St. 10110 2 10 0 3 0000110 Vincent Stateless 10112 0 5112 0 0101218 (Art 1 1951 Convention) Sudan 7768192026176315101272019202 Surinam———— 1 0 ——— 0 — — 0——— 1 Swaziland 01012 0 2000 2————— 8 Switzerland0———— — ———— — ————— 0 Syria 8 11 7 12 15 26 34 25 34 18 16 21 18 6 12 10 273 Taiwan12112 0 3101 1 0045931 Tajikistan 11004 3 4613 1 2120130 Tanzania 21 38 40 28 34 102 193 112 86 68 121 57 61 18 3 10 992 Thailand 59 71 76 112 129 92 121 100 64 62 87 86 78 63 74 122 1,396 Togo12043 3 7314 2 2200034 Tonga — — — 1 0 0 0 0 0 — — — 0——— 1 709W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 710W

Reporting period 2008 2009 Grand Nationality Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun total

Trinidad 02415 1 542104 23121056 And Tobago Tunisia 21304 4 51124 2 2373558 Turkey 157 74 125 109 122 142 194 173 102 133 163 178 252 67 128 106 2,225 Turkmenistan 8 26 9 6 8 7 21 17 28 15 4 15 10 2 9 1 186 Tuvalu————— — ———— — 0———— 0 Uganda 34 30 25 24 52 94 129 100 36 41 88 53 61 26 12 21 826 Ukraine 25 58 10 21 26 43 44 31 16 17 13 12 18 9 10 19 372 United 12002 1 1152 2 0072228 Arab Emirates United ———— 0 0 —— 0 0 0 ————— 0 Nations United 514193245405424187962191548157224855 States Unspecified 12535111111966 9 52302100 Nationality Uruguay 00000 1 0001 0 0—0215 Uzbekistan 87 131 257 169 331 70 60 174 82 74 47 171 86 14 18 18 1789 Vanuatu————— — ———— — ——— 0— 0 Venezuela 5426512151001512121632221160 Vietnam 26 28 16 26 50 69 90 51 35 44 28 33 14 21 18 24 573 Western ———— 0 — ———— — ————— 0 Samoa XXC— 0 0— 1 0 1 0 0 1 — ————— 3 XXH00001 0 1101 0 1011411 XXP41178718141266 3136332123 Yemen 11 17 7 8 12 16 19 13 14 19 8 25 12 16 8 12 217 Yugoslavia34266 4 4252 5 5621158 Zambia 23 32 24 24 15 36 53 22 9 27 24 18 17 10 12 7 353 Zimbabwe 26 28 20 47 53 104 95 53 19 41 36 38 34 15 20 13 642 Grand 6,253 7,336 6,258 5,627 9,457 1,2087 1,6151 9,067 6,673 7,324 1,1782 1,0705 8,206 5,728 4,968 6,349 13,3971 total Note: The data is unpublished and should be treated as provisional. Source: CRS data 13 July 2009

Foreign Workers The figures do not equate to the number of individual nationals who were granted permits because Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for the they include those applications approved to extend or Home Department how many applications for a work amend an existing permit or where the individual has permit on the basis of an intra-company transfer in moved to another job with a different employer. Not all respect of non-UK nationals were (a) made and (b) those who were granted a permit took up the job and granted in the first two quarters of 2009. [286458] some may have been refused entry clearance or further Mr. Woolas: The table shows the number of work leave to remain. permit applications made and approved for intra- Foreign Workers: Immigration Control company transfers in the first two quarters of 2009.

Q1 Q2 Total Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many non-EU workers were Applications 530 515 1,045 given leave to remain (a) as skilled workers under made mechanisms in place prior to the implementation of Applications 435 510 945 the points-based immigration system and (b) under approved Tier 2 of the points-based immigration system in each Notes: of the last 12 quarters for which figures are available. 1. Number of individual work permit intra-company transfer applications received in each quarter during the period 1 January [285848] 2004 to 30 June 2009 and of those how many where approved. 2. Figures are rounded to nearest 5. Mr. Woolas [holding answer 13 July 2009]: 3. Because of rounding, figures may not add up to totals shown. Information relating to non-EU workers given leave to The figures quoted are not provided under National remain as skilled workers prior to the introduction of Statistics protocols and have been derived from local the points-based system is set out in the table. management information and are therefore provisional Information on the points-based system will be and subject to change. published in August. 711W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 712W

Figure 1: Number of non-EU HSMP and work permit LTR Of these, seven people have to date been arrested applications approved from 1 July 2007 to 30 June 2009 by quarter within the north east with two convicted of human Work permit trafficking. Quarter HSMP LTR LTR Total

2006 Qtr 3 5,985 11,460 17,450 2006 Qtr 4 7,065 14,375 21,435 Identity Cards 2007 Qtr 1 6,880 11,890 18,770 2007 Qtr 2 4,385 9,705 14,095 Mr. MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2007 Qtr 3 4,350 11,555 15,905 Home Department if he will make available to hon. 2007 Qtr 4 4,760 10,815 15,580 Members on request a provisional identity card 2008 Qtr 1 4,370 8,645 13,015 document to enable passport-free travel to and from 2008 Qtr 2 780 9,615 10,395 other EU member states. [284693] 2008 Qtr 3 25 11,120 11,145 2008 Qtr 4 20 11,200 11,220 Mr. Woolas: From autumn 2009, we will issue 2009 Qtr 1 * 6,060 6,065 voluntary identity cards valid for travel in Europe to 2009 Qtr 2 * 740 745 airside workers at Manchester and London City Total 38,625 117,190 155,815 airports and to British citizens aged 16 and over *Indicates1or2 resident in Greater Manchester at a fee of £30. “—” Indicates nil We intend then to extend the rollout of identity cards Notes: to the rest of the North West in the new year and from Figures are rounded to nearest 5. Because of rounding, figures may not add up to totals shown. 2012 we will start to issue identity cards in high The figures quoted are not provided under National volumes alongside passports, offering everyone the Statistics protocols and have been derived from local choice of being issued with an identity card or a management information and are therefore provisional passport or both documents. and subject to change. Forensic Science: Police Immigration Controls

Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department which police forces operate Home Department how many immigrants entered the in-house forensic science services; and if he will make a UK under Tier 2 of the points-based system in 2008. statement. [283594] [278550]

Mr. Alan Campbell: All police forces use a mixture of Mr. Woolas: During 2008, a total of 91 visas were in-house services and those provided by external issued to non-EEA nationals for entry to the UK under forensic suppliers to carry out forensic work. For tier 2 of the points-based system. Tier 2 was introduced example, crime scene investigators, who will generally on 27 November 2008. be employed by a force, may find fingerprints and These data are unpublished and should be treated as material which may carry traces of DNA. The provisional. fingerprints are compared with IDENT1, the national fingerprint computer system, which produces a Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for the shortlist of possible matches. The shortlist is then Home Department how many foreign nationals have examined by fingerprint experts who work for the force been prevented from entering the UK on grounds of Fingerprint Bureau to confirm a match. Analysis of (a) national security, (b) unacceptable behaviour, material to produce DNA profiles is done by forensic (c) public order and (d) serious criminality since July suppliers rather than in-house. In other areas of 2005. [283783] forensic work, the balance between in-house and external services will vary depending on the nature of Mr. Woolas: A decision to prevent entry to the UK the material examined and decisions made by forces. may be made at the entry clearance application stage, Details of the position in each police force are not held or when a person arrives at the port of entry. centrally. Additionally, prevention of entry on grounds of Human Trafficking criminality may include foreign national prisoners who have either been deported from, or removed and subsequently excluded from, the United Kingdom. Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases of human There are no centrally held records which encompass trafficking have been recorded in (a) the UK and the total number of foreign nationals who have been (b) the North East in each year since 1997. [285323] prevented from entering the UK, but I can confirm that since July 2005 the Home Secretary has excluded 163 Mr. Alan Campbell: Figures provided by the UK individuals from the UK on the grounds of national Human Trafficking Centre indicate that within the UK security and 106 individuals on the grounds of there have been a total of 384 people dealt with by the unacceptable behaviour. criminal justice system on arrest for human trafficking. I can also confirm that 2,852 individuals were A total of 106 people have been arrested for trafficking refused entry at the UK border on non-conducive for sexual exploitation, three for conspiracy to traffic grounds between 2005 and 2008. Figures for 2009 will and seven for trafficking for forced labour. not be published until the end of year. 713W Written Answers16 JULY 2009 Written Answers 714W

Immigration: Biometrics include the requirement that officers abide by police regulations, force policies and lawful orders. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Any breach of the standards may lead to disciplinary Home Department which British diplomatic posts (a) action being taken against an officer, which in the most have and (b) do not have biometric identification serious cases can result in dismissal from the service. facilities. [277753] UK Border Agency: Consultants Mr. Woolas: There are both British diplomatic missions and biometric collection facilities in the Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the following countries: Home Department pursuant to the answer of 18 June Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, 2009, Official Report, columns 459-62W, on the UK Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Border Agency: public consultation, how many Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Bermuda, Bolivia, management consultancies have held contracts with the Bosnia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burma, UK Border Agency in the last three years. [282423] Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Mr. Woolas: Over the last three years, 36 Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, management consultancies have held contracts with the Ecuador, Egypt, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, France, UK Border Agency. This number excludes any Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, consultancies providing services via the civil service Guatemala, Guyana, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, wide contractual framework agreements or through the India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq1, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Office of Government Commerce, as this would not Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Korea, amount to a contract held with the UK Border Agency. Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Libya, Lithuania, Information on those arrangements could be provided Macedonia, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, only at disproportionate cost. Mexico, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, UK Border Agency: Lost Property Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saudi Home Department how many laptops have been Arabia, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, recorded lost, stolen or missing from the UK Border South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, St. Lucia, Sudan, Agency and its predecessor organisations in each of the Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, last three years; how many have subsequently been Tanzania, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, recovered; and how many of these incidents have Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uganda, happened following a breach of guidelines issued by his Ukraine, Uruguay, United States, Uzbekistan, Department. [251926] Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe. Mr. Woolas: Figures on the number of laptops There are British diplomatic missions but no stolen, lost or missing from the UK Border Agency for biometric collection (or visa issuing) facilities in the the years when information is available, are provided in following countries: Afghanistan, Burundi, Cote the following table: d’Ivoire, Eritrea, Guinea, Kosovo. 1 Iraq: Baghdad and Erbil operate a limited biometric capture Lost/stolen/missing Recovered facility for specified categories of applicant. 2006 8 0 Police: Badge Numbers 2007 8 0 2008 13 5 Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for the Total 29 5 Home Department whether his Department issues guidance to police authorities on the display of badge To provide information on how many of these numbers by police officers at public protests. [283347] incidents took place following a breach of Home Office guidelines would require a review of each individual Mr. Hanson [holding answer 1 July 2009]: All police report, including validation with the individual and the officers are subject to the Standards of Professional business area involved. It is likely that this would take Behaviour that are set out in the Police (Conduct) significant resource time to undertake and complete Regulations 2008. These regulations set out the and could therefore be provided only at standards of behaviour expected of police officers and disproportionate cost. 5MC Ministerial Corrections16 JULY 2009 Ministerial Corrections 6MC Ministerial Correction Letter of correction from Rosie Winterton: An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening) Thursday 16 July 2009 on 11 June 2009. The correct answer should have been:

Ms Rosie Winterton: A full list of those consulted is COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT at Annex B to the Consultation document published in August 2004. A total of 77 responses were received. Non-domestic Rates 44 responded in favour of a four-year transitional scheme. Eight respondents favoured a five-year transitional scheme. Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for These are as follows: Communities and Local Government which were the (The) Energy Network groups described as representing ratepayers who expect North Norfolk District Council significant rises in their rate bills and who are pressing for a five-year scheme on page 15 of the document B and Q NNDR Transitional Arrangements: Consultation, British Retail Consortium published by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister Onyx and SITA in August 2004; and if he will make a statement. e-on UK [278453] Association of Electricity Producers [Official Report, 11 June 2009, Vol. 493, c. 996-97W.] International Power.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 16 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 427 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Automotive Assistance Programme ...... 438 London Metropolitan University...... 430 Automotive Assistance Scheme...... 427 Manufacturing...... 429 Creative Arts (Thurrock)...... 431 Overseas Students ...... 435 Economic Downturn...... 436 Small and Medium-sized Enterprises ...... 438 Further Education Colleges ...... 436 Steel Industry...... 432 Graduate Job Prospects ...... 434 Topical Questions ...... 440 Learndirect Programme ...... 429 Vehicle Scrappage Scheme ...... 437 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 16 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 37WS JUSTICE—continued Informal Meeting of Employment and Social Legal Aid Reform (Priority Cases)...... 63WS Policy Ministers ...... 37WS Penalty Notices for Disorder...... 64WS Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 ...... 61WS CABINET OFFICE...... 41WS Annual Report and Accounts ...... 41WS LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 66WS State Opening ...... 66WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 41WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 66WS Eco-towns and Zero Carbon Homes...... 42WS Northern Ireland Prison Service ...... 66WS Gypsies and Travellers...... 41WS Thames Gateway Annual Report ...... 42WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 66WS Advisory Committee on Business Appointments ... 77WS DEFENCE...... 49WS Chief Surveillance Commissioner, Interception of Borona Programme...... 49WS Communications Commissioner and Defence Estate Development Plan 2009 ...... 50WS Intelligence Service ...... 77WS Science Advisory Committee on the Medical Ministerial Gifts...... 66WS Implications of Less Lethal Weapons ...... 50WS Ministerial Travel ...... 66WS Service Personnel Green Paper...... 51WS Official and Charity Receptions: 10 Downing Street ...... 66WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Official Hospitality (Chequers) ...... 69WS AFFAIRS...... 52WS Special Advisers ...... 73WS Animal Products (Imports) ...... 55WS The Road to 2010: Addressing the Nuclear National Park and Broads Authorities...... 52WS Question in the 21st Century...... 78WS Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew ...... 54WS UK Visits 2008-09...... 75WS Rural Payments Agency ...... 54WS Single Payment Scheme...... 56WS TRANSPORT ...... 79WS Annual Report and Resource Accounts ...... 81WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 57WS ATOL Protection Contribution ...... 82WS Consultation (Charges) ...... 57WS Cost of Ministerial Cars for 2008-09...... 79WS Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. 57WS Crossrail...... 80WS Identity and Passport Service Annual Report and Highways Agency ...... 82WS Accounts...... 58WS Local Transport Act 2008 (Designated Bodies)...... 82WS Independent Police Complaints Commission Local Transport Act 2008 (Passenger Focus) ...... 82WS Annual Report...... 58WS TREASURY ...... 38WS Independent Safeguarding Authority Annual ECOFIN...... 38WS Report and Accounts...... 59WS Gaming Machines...... 40WS Intercept as Evidence ...... 59WS Provisional Outturn for Public Expenditure (2008-09)...... 39WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 60WS Tax Law Rewrite ...... 39WS Annual Reports and Resource Accounts Walker Review ...... 40WS (2008-09)...... 60WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 83WS JUSTICE...... 60WS Annual Social Fund Reports...... 83WS Freedom of Information Act (Records ICL Inquiry Report ...... 84WS Management)...... 64WS Rent Service and Child Maintenance and Housing: Proportionate Dispute Resolution ...... 60WS Enforcement Commission...... 86WS PETITIONS

Thursday 16 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL HEALTH...... 12P AFFAIRS...... 11P Hospital Parking Charges (Cheshire) ...... 12P Sea Defences (Essex)...... 11P Stroke Services (London) ...... 12P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 16 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 575W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Bankruptcy ...... 577W continued British National Space Centre...... 576W Islam...... 650W Construction Industry...... 577W Islam: Faith Schools...... 651W Graduate Job Prospects ...... 575W Local Authority Business Growth Incentives Insolvency...... 577W Scheme...... 651W Internet: Censorship ...... 578W Local Government Finance ...... 652W Jaguar Land Rover...... 579W Local Government Finance: York...... 652W London Metropolitan University...... 579W Planning Permission ...... 653W Skilled Workers...... 580W Regional Planning and Development...... 653W Space Technology: Research ...... 581W Registered Social Landlords...... 654W Students: Loans ...... 582W Rents: Private Sector...... 654W Tax Havens ...... 582W Shared Ownership Schemes ...... 655W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 582W Social Housing Grant: Greater London...... 655W Tony Clements ...... 655W CABINET OFFICE...... 624W Advertising Advisory Committee...... 624W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 583W Brain Cancer...... 624W Departmental Contracts ...... 583W Brain Cancer: Hampshire...... 625W Departmental Databases...... 583W Civil Servants: Vacancies...... 625W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 583W Death ...... 626W Departmental Information Officers ...... 584W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 631W Digital Broadcasting ...... 584W Departmental Manpower...... 632W Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland ...... 585W Departmental Sick Leave ...... 633W Digital Broadcasting: Radio...... 585W Departmental Standards...... 633W Digital Switchover Help Scheme...... 586W Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 634W Television: Licensing ...... 586W Pay...... 634W Public Bodies ...... 635W DEFENCE...... 587W Skin Cancer ...... 636W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 587W Armed Forces ...... 587W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 637W Armed Forces: Health Services ...... 587W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 637W Departmental Lost Property ...... 588W Children: Disabled ...... 637W Departmental Procurement...... 588W Children’s Workforce Development Council ...... 638W Departmental Property ...... 588W Educational Visits: National Curriculum Tests ...... 638W Military Aircraft ...... 589W GCSE ...... 639W Implementation Review Unit ...... 639W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 591W Mathematics: Primary Education ...... 639W Board of the Gas and Electricity Markets Pupils: Per Capita Costs...... 639W Authority ...... 591W Schools ...... 641W Carbon Sequestration ...... 591W Schools: Sandwell...... 643W Carbon Sequestration: Scotland...... 591W Schools: Standards...... 644W Coal Investment Aid ...... 592W Social Workers ...... 645W Committee on Climate Change ...... 592W Special Educational Needs: Pupil Exclusions...... 645W Departmental Accountancy ...... 592W Specialised Diplomas ...... 646W Departmental Data Protection...... 593W Departmental Databases...... 593W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 647W Departmental Press...... 594W Council Housing: Standards ...... 647W EC Law...... 594W Departmental Data Protection...... 647W Energy...... 594W Departmental Databases...... 647W Energy: Conservation...... 595W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 648W Energy: Meters...... 595W Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards ...... 648W Energy: Prices ...... 595W Housing: Greater London...... 649W Energy Supply...... 595W Housing: Low Incomes ...... 649W EU Laws ...... 596W Housing: Overcrowding ...... 649W Garages and Petrol Stations...... 597W Housing Revenue Accounts ...... 648W Industrial Diseases...... 597W Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued HEALTH...... 656W Industrial Diseases: Compensation ...... 597W Aerials: Health Hazards...... 656W Influenza: Contingency Planning...... 598W Blood: Contamination ...... 656W International Renewable Energy Agency: Blood: Safety ...... 659W Location ...... 599W Breast Cancer: Males ...... 659W Lighting ...... 599W Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards ...... 660W Low Carbon Buildings Programme: Finance ...... 599W Epilepsy: Drugs...... 660W Low Carbon Loans...... 600W Food: Chemical Analysis ...... 660W Members: Correspondence ...... 600W Health Foods: Channel Islands ...... 661W Miners: Compensation...... 600W Health Services: Children...... 661W Nuclear Power: Job Creation...... 603W Health Services: Domestic Visits...... 662W Nuclear Power Stations: Construction ...... 601W Health Services: Private Sector...... 664W Nuclear Power Stations: Security ...... 601W Health Services: Reciprocal Arrangements ...... 664W Nuclear Trust: Finance ...... 603W HF&E Bill 1990 Hansard...... 665W Public Expenditure...... 604W HIV Infection and Hepatitis C...... 666W Radioactive Waste: Exports ...... 605W Influenza...... 666W UDM-Vendside...... 605W Influenza: Business ...... 667W Influenza: Health Services...... 667W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Legislation: Documents ...... 667W AFFAIRS...... 551W Mental Health Services: Finance...... 668W Agriculture...... 551W Mentally Ill: Suicide...... 668W Batteries: Recycling...... 552W Reciprocal Health Services: Elderly...... 669W Birds: Imports...... 553W Sunbeds: Young People...... 669W Coastal Areas: Flood Control...... 553W Swine Flu...... 670W Departmental Billing ...... 555W Swine Flu: Hospital Beds...... 672W Departmental Databases...... 555W Thalidomide...... 673W Departmental Work Experience...... 556W Thame Hospital ...... 673W EC Law...... 557W Tranquillisers ...... 673W Environment Protection: Public Opinion ...... 557W West London Mental Health NHS Trust ...... 674W Environment Protection: York ...... 558W Young People’s Development Programme...... 674W Flood Control: Expenditure...... 558W Flood Control: Finance ...... 559W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 696W Flood Control: Standards ...... 560W Calais...... 696W Floods...... 560W Departmental Contracts ...... 696W Fluoride: Drinking Water ...... 560W Departmental Data Protection...... 697W Forestry...... 561W Departmental Databases...... 697W Forests ...... 561W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 698W Hazardous Substances: Waste Disposal ...... 562W Departmental Internet ...... 698W Landfill ...... 563W Departmental Lost Property ...... 699W Local Government Finance ...... 565W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 699W Marine Management Organisation ...... 567W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 699W Natural England: Manpower ...... 567W Departmental Work Experience...... 700W Origin Marking: Israel ...... 568W Deportation: Bexley...... 700W Rivers: Pollution ...... 568W Deportation: Democratic Republic of Congo ...... 700W Roads...... 570W Entry Clearances...... 701W Rural Payments Agency: Freedom of Information. 571W Entry Clearances: Applications...... 702W Squirrels...... 571W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 702W Trees ...... 571W Foreign Workers ...... 709W Waste Disposal ...... 573W Foreign Workers: Immigration Control ...... 710W Water Charges...... 573W Forensic Science: Police ...... 711W Water Supply ...... 575W Human Trafficking ...... 711W Identity Cards...... 712W Immigration: Biometrics...... 713W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 605W Immigration Controls ...... 712W British Indian Ocean Territory...... 605W Police: Badge Numbers...... 713W Departmental Data Protection...... 606W UK Border Agency: Consultants...... 714W Departmental Databases...... 606W UK Border Agency: Lost Property...... 714W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 606W Departmental Furniture...... 607W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 674W Departmental Manpower...... 607W Afghanistan ...... 674W EU Law...... 607W Afghanistan: Reconstruction ...... 674W EU: Legislation...... 608W Afghanistan: Theme Parks...... 675W Forced Marriages: Victim Support Schemes ...... 608W Departmental Databases...... 675W Foreign Policy ...... 609W Developing Countries: Job Creation ...... 676W Freedom of Information ...... 609W Developing Countries: Overseas Aid...... 676W Honduras: Politics and Government ...... 610W Development Aid...... 679W Iran: Asylum...... 610W Global Partnership for Agriculture Food Security Israel...... 610W and Nutrition...... 677W Northern Ireland...... 611W Sierra Leone: Overseas Aid...... 677W Palestinians: Israel ...... 611W Travel Information: Finance...... 611W JUSTICE...... 680W Turkey: EU Accession...... 612W Compensation: Local Government ...... 680W Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE—continued TRANSPORT—continued Debt Collection...... 680W Motorcycles: Driving Instruction...... 620W Departmental Manpower...... 680W Railways: Electrification ...... 621W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 681W Railways: Franchises ...... 621W National Archives ...... 681W Roads: Construction ...... 622W Repossession Orders: Mortgages...... 682W Rolling Stock ...... 623W Tolls...... 623W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 612W West Coast Railway Line ...... 623W Crime Prevention ...... 612W Damian McBride ...... 613W TREASURY ...... 683W Departmental Data Protection...... 613W Departmental Manpower...... 683W Kidnapping...... 613W Departmental Publications ...... 684W Northern Ireland Forensic Science Agency ...... 613W Energy:...... 684W Proceeds of Crime...... 614W Euro Steering Committee...... 685W Terrorism ...... 614W Financial Services: City of London...... 685W Financial Services: Regulation ...... 686W OLYMPICS ...... 614W Imports ...... 686W Departmental Data Protection...... 614W Insurance: Motor Vehicles ...... 686W Olympic Games 2012: Employment ...... 614W Members: Correspondence ...... 687W Olympic Games 2012: Lancashire ...... 615W Nuclear Power: Costs...... 687W Olympic Games 2012: Transport...... 615W Pay: North East ...... 687W Public Bodies ...... 689W PRIME MINISTER ...... 683W Taxation: Imports ...... 689W Parliamentary Private Secretaries...... 683W WALES...... 551W TRANSPORT ...... 616W Public Expenditure...... 551W Aviation: Lasers ...... 616W Cycling: Hampshire ...... 616W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 689W Departmental Accountancy ...... 617W Attendance Allowance ...... 689W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 617W Carer’s Allowance ...... 690W Departmental Pay ...... 617W Children: Maintenance ...... 690W Departmental Performance Appraisal...... 618W Departmental Information...... 692W Driving Standards Agency: Pay ...... 618W Housing Benefit: Greater London...... 692W Driving: Working Hours ...... 618W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Employment Schemes...... 694W East Coast Railway Line ...... 619W Pensioners: Poverty ...... 695W EC Law...... 619W Social Security Benefits...... 695W EU Laws ...... 620W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 695W Members: Correspondence ...... 620W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 696W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 16 July 2009

Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 5MC Non-domestic Rates...... 5MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 23 July 2009

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CONTENTS

Thursday 16 July 2009

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 427] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills

Business of the House [Col. 445] Statement—(Ms Harman)

Parliament Disclosure of Information [Col. 460] Bill Presented, and read the First time

Media Owners (Residency Requirement) [Col. 461] Bill presented, and read the First time

Common Land and Repeal of Inclosure Acts [Col. 461] Bill presented, and read the First time

Copenhagen Climate Change Conference [Col. 462] Topical debate

Afghanistan and Pakistan [Col. 487] General debate

Petition [Col. 553]

Enid Ruhango [Col. 554] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Housing and the Credit Crunch [Col. 145] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 37WS]

Petitions [Col. 11P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 551W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 5MC]