Wednesday Volume 522 26 January 2011 No. 106
HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)
Wednesday 26 January 2011
£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 273 26 JANUARY 2011 274
Does the Secretary of State think that inward investment House of Commons to Scotland would be helped if Glasgow Prestwick airport were renamed Robert Burns airport? Wednesday 26 January 2011 Michael Moore: From one great defender of Ayrshire to another. The family will be pleased to hear the hon. The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Gentleman’s tributes to Phil Gallie. As far as the hon. Gentleman’s idea for the renaming of the airport is PRAYERS concerned, I am sure that those who make such decisions will have heard him.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): As the Secretary of State will know, the north-east of Scotland and Aberdeen is a powerhouse of the UK economy, providing much-needed tax revenues and inward Oral Answers to Questions investment. Crucial to the future of attracting inward investment is good communications technology. Will he meet me to discuss the barriers that mean that we have SCOTLAND not yet seen the next generation of broadband reach Aberdeen and the north-east of Scotland? The Secretary of State was asked— Michael Moore: First, I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of Aberdeen and the regional Business Growth economy not just for Scotland but for the UK as a whole. He is right to emphasise that. I met senior 1. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): What recent steps he business leaders in Aberdeen only a few weeks ago, and has taken to promote business growth and inward we discussed how they could develop growth. Broadband investment in Scotland. [35124] is an important part of that, and he will be aware of our plans to speed up the introduction of superfast broadband. The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): I would be delighted to meet him to discuss the matter Before I answer the question, may I pay tribute to further. Mr Phil Gallie, whose passing has sadly been announced this week? He served this House and his party well while Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): I associate myself he was here, and he went on to serve his party and his and my colleagues with the condolences in relation to constituents with distinction in the Scottish Parliament. Phil Gallie’s death. He did that rare but important thing—while a feisty Does the Secretary of State understand that thousands defender of his party’s positions on all sorts of things, of individuals and businesses the length and breadth of he became popular across party lines. Our condolences Scotland are suffering because of rocketing fuel prices? go to his family. Economic growth is at the centre of the Government’s Michael Moore: I recognise that the increase in fuel agenda for this Parliament, and I promote that agenda prices is a real challenge for individuals and businesses, in my regular engagements with the business community which is why the Government are looking carefully at in Scotland and the UK and with international partners. ways in which we can tackle that issue, including proposals for a fuel duty stabiliser. Mark Menzies: May I join the Secretary of State in his condolences to the family of Phil Gallie, a fellow Angus Robertson: But it was two years ago that the Ayrshireman and someone I knew well? Liberal Democrats promised a rural fuel duty derogation. The Secretary of State mentioned the efforts to promote What specific action have the UK Government taken jobs. Will he update the House on what he has done to with the European authorities to secure that? Specifically, follow up on the visit of the vice-premier of China, in has a formal request been made to the European particular on the trade links between Scotland and Commission to make it possible? China? Michael Moore: Referring to the hon. Gentleman’s Michael Moore: A very significant part of the vice- earlier point, it is important for Scotland and the whole premier’s visit, which of course we welcomed enthusiastically UK to get a fuel duty regime that reflects the challenges here in the United Kingdom, was that he started it in that exist, particularly in rural parts of the country. On Scotland. I had the great privilege of welcoming him to the derogation specifically, he will be aware that the the UK on behalf of the Government. In the course of Government are working very hard to ensure that we that visit, we in Scotland and the rest of the UK were can get the right processes in place in Europe, so that we able to see very clearly the opportunities for us to get the pilot up and running as quickly as possible. develop our plan to be partners for growth, whether in renewable energy or in many other spheres. Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I welcome the Government’s moves towards a lower rate of fuel duty Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): May for the islands, but under the plans that they inherited I add my condolences to those expressed to the family from the Labour Government, fuel duty is due to go up of Phil Gallie? He and I came into this place on the by more than 4p a litre in the Budget. The rural economy same day, and I have to say that he was more working-class could not stand such an increase, so I hope that the than most Labour MPs are today, and a feisty fighter Secretary of State will tell the Chancellor not to go as well. ahead with Labour’s 4p increase. 275 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 276
Michael Moore: I know the particular challenges on Scottish Devolution, which is also known as the in my hon. Friend’s area, where some of the highest Calman commission. The Government introduced the fuel prices in the whole country can be found. His Scotland Bill on 30 November—St Andrew’s Day—2010. representations to me and to the Chancellor are carefully The Bill will have its Second Reading in this House noted, and of course the decision on the future of fuel tomorrow and I look forward to hon. Members taking duty will come in the Budget. part in the debate.
Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): Good transport Iain Stewart: I very much welcome the provisions in links to other parts of the UK are vital for the Scottish the Scotland Bill to make the Scottish Parliament more economy. As the Secretary of State is aware, I wrote to fiscally accountable, but can my right hon. Friend give him and to the Secretary of State for Transport on me an assurance that the business community on both Monday last week to express my concerns about reports sides of the border will be fully consulted about the that bmi is about to axe its Glasgow-Heathrow service, implementation of the tax powers, so that it does not which will put more than 100 jobs at risk. To date, I suffer an undue administrative burden? have had no reply from either him or his colleague. Will he inform the House today what steps he and his Michael Moore: I welcome my hon. Friend’s Government are taking to persuade both bmi and BAA comments—I know that he has more than a passing to save that vital transport connection? interest in those particular powers. I can give him absolutely the assurance that he wants. Through the Michael Moore: I recognise the hon. Lady’s concerns, high-level implementation group, which brings together which are shared by people not just in Glasgow, but experts from a range of bodies, and Her Majesty’s across Scotland. I have spoken to senior managers both Revenue and Customs technical groups, we are consulting at bmi and BAA, and it is clear that they have some very very carefully and taking on board all the comments difficult contractual arrangements as a result of the being made. review of landing charges at Heathrow. I am keen that David Mowat: Calman acknowledged that the Barnett they recognise—I impressed this upon them—the formula no longer reflected need. As a consequence, importance of those links to Glasgow and to Scotland. constituencies such as mine—Warrington South—receive many millions of pounds per year less than equivalent Ann McKechin: I am grateful for the Secretary of constituencies in Scotland. Does the Minister have any State’s response, but given that there is increasing evidence plans to amend the Scotland Bill to put the allocation that domestic air links between Scotland’s major airports on to a basis of need? and the UK’s largest airport might be substantially diminished, and the inevitable worries that increased Mr Speaker: All I will say to the Secretary of State is fares will result if there is only one remaining carrier, that that question is very wide of the considerations of will he undertake today to make contact with the EU, the Calman commission, and I feel sure that he will be which is responsible for regulation, and ask it to consider dextrous enough to provide an orderly reply. possible changes better to protect strategically important domestic air links, and to ensure better competitive Michael Moore: The answer is no. practices to protect Scotland’s economy and our customers? Mr Speaker: I am confirmed in that view. Michael Moore: If I may be forgiven, I am not sure that I remember the previous Labour Government doing Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The problem is that. I do not want us to lose sight of the fact that that the recommendations of the Calman commission Glasgow, Edinburgh and other major Scottish cities are not being implemented—they are not in the Scotland have a range of links to different London airports— Bill. The proposal on the aggregates levy, the proposals substantial links that we want to be enhanced and to for the devolution of the marine environment and the grow. The issue that the hon. Lady raises is obviously proposal on air passenger duty have all been abandoned. one of concern, and the Government will continue to Is that a lack of imagination on the part of this discuss it with the parties involved. Government, or merely a lack of ambition for Scotland?
Calman Commission Michael Moore: We certainly do not lack ambition for Scotland. We have a set of proposals that are being thoroughly scrutinised in the Scottish Parliament, and 2. Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): What from tomorrow, they will be scrutinised in the House as progress the Government have made on well. As far as the specifics are concerned, the hon. implementation of recommendations of the Calman Gentleman will be aware that, in respect of the aggregates Commission on Scottish Devolution; and if he will levy, we have said that given the current court case, it is make a statement. [35125] inappropriate to devolve that just now, but we will do so in future. I recommend that he goes back to the Command 6. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): What Paper and studies it carefully. progress the Government have made on implementation of recommendations of the Calman Value Added Tax Commission on Scottish devolution; and if he will make a statement. [35129] 3. Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): What recent discussions he has had with the The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effect in Scotland The coalition agreement contained a commitment to of the increase in the basic rate of value added tax. implementing the recommendations of the Commission [35126] 277 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 278
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland Michael Moore: We certainly believe that the private (David Mundell): May I associate myself with the Secretary sector has a central role to play in returning us to of State’s comments on Phil Gallie? Phil was a true, sustainable growth in this country, whether in Scotland great Conservative in Scotland. or the rest of the United Kingdom. The Scottish Parliament I have regular discussions with the Chancellor of the debates the Scottish Government’s budget this afternoon Exchequer on a range of issues. The VAT rise is a tough and no doubt some of these points will be made in that but necessary step towards Britain’s economic recovery. debate. Income tax and national insurance increases would have had a more damaging impact on poorer people in Mike Freer: Is the Secretary of State worried that the our society. Scottish Government’s plans to introduce a business surcharge will damage business confidence? Gordon Banks: Almost half the respondents to a recent survey by the Federation of Small Businesses Michael Moore: The Scottish Government have received said that they would increase prices because of the VAT serious representations on their proposals, and I am rise, and 45% of those respondents said that the rise confident that those will be debated extensively this would decrease turnover and have an obvious impact in afternoon. hindering job creation and growth. How can the Secretary of State and the Minister continue to sell out the people of Scotland and support this abysmal tax rise? Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): A double dip in the housing market in Scotland would be David Mundell: How can the hon. Gentleman continue a disaster for the country. What discussions has the to fail to take responsibility for his Government’s record, Secretary of State had with Scottish banks about more which took our country to the brink of bankruptcy and flexible lending? required the VAT rise to fill the black hole? If anyone is responsible for the issues that Scottish business currently Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman will be more faces, it is his Government. familiar than most with the situation that we inherited, in which bank lending—to businesses or to householders— Business Confidence was not in a good state. We are determined to increase the amount of lending and I have regular discussions 4. Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): What assessment with the banks on a range of issues. This issue is a he has made of recent trends in business confidence in central part of those discussions. Scotland. [35127] Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): Will 7. John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): What assessment the Secretary of State accept that business confidence he has made of recent trends in business confidence in will have been extremely dented by yesterday’s appalling Scotland. [35130] growth figure announcements? Will he now accept that the Government’s cuts go too far, too fast, and will the 9. Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con): Government now pull back from this reckless course? What assessment he has made of trends in business confidence in Scotland. [35132] Michael Moore: I recognise that yesterday’s growth The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): figures were very disappointing. We have said for months Returning the UK to sustainable economic growth is that the recovery would be choppy. There are special the Government’s overriding priority. The Government circumstances about the weather in yesterday’s are doing everything they can to create the conditions announcement, which she will be aware of. But if we do that enable all businesses to be successful and create not tackle the deficit, introduce measures to help businesses more jobs. to grow or invest in infrastructure and science funding, we will not get the recovery from the situation that we Fiona Bruce: Business organisations have welcomed inherited from the Opposition. the Government’s plans to reduce the headline rate of corporation tax and simplify the tax system. Does the Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ Secretary of State agree that cuts are vital for boosting Co-op): In the Secretary of State’s last answer, he enterprise? referred to investment in infrastructure. He will know, from the Scottish business organisations that are in Michael Moore: I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments London today to appear before the Select Committee, and reinforce the points made by my hon. Friend the that an important part of increasing confidence is having Under-Secretary a moment ago. The priority for economic the right transport links and access to markets. Given growth in this country is to cut the deficit of £155,000 that, and the future of the Secretary of State for Wales million that we inherited from Labour. Cuts in corporation notwithstanding, will the Secretary of State clear up the tax, reducing the national insurance burden and keeping confusion on his position on High Speed 2 and its interest rates low are important parts of the package. extension to Scotland? I know from the discussions a couple of weeks ago that people from Glasgow and John Stevenson: Given the over-reliance on the public Edinburgh are slightly confused about where he sector in Scotland, does the Secretary of State agree stands. Can he clear this up and put on the record his that the Scottish Government should be following the support for High Speed 2 being extended to Edinburgh policies of the national Government by encouraging and Glasgow for the future of the economy of the private sector investment and ensuring a balanced economy? whole UK? 279 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 280
Michael Moore: I would not accuse the hon. Gentleman Bank Bonuses of wilfully misinterpreting the outcome of that particular meeting. I was pleased to arrange the meeting between 8. Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): What the leaders of Glasgow and Edinburgh councils and my discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues on right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, the level of employee bonuses to be paid by banks who is sitting on the Front Bench. I am a passionate based in Scotland. [35131] supporter of high-speed rail coming to Scotland, as is my right hon. Friend and the rest of the Cabinet. 12. Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): What discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues on the level of Tuition Fees employee bonuses to be paid by banks based in Scotland. [35135] 5. Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): What assessment he has made of the likely effect on The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): universities in Scotland of the increase in the maximum With permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 8 fees chargeable by universities in England. [35128] and 12 together. I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on a range of issues. As the predominant The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland shareholder in RBS, the Government expect the bank (David Mundell): Education is devolved, and the hon. to be a back-marker and not a market leader on bonuses. Gentleman will be aware that the Scottish Government People across the country are having to make adjustments are currently consulting on the future of higher education as we come out of recession and repair our public in Scotland. The UK Government are developing a finances. Everyone expects bankers to be part of this White Paper on higher education in England that will process. fully consider the effect of their proposals on higher education in the devolved Administrations. Anas Sarwar: Given that the Financial Services Authority report found that 1.1 million customer complaints were Pete Wishart: I am grateful to the Minister for that made against RBS in one year and that more than answer, although it was not quite an answer to my 50% were shown to have been dealt with inappropriately, question. He will know, as I do, that the tripling of does the Minister think it appropriate for RBS executives university fees in England will bring nothing but pain to receive lavish bonuses this year, and if not, what is he and misery to Scottish universities and Scottish students, going to do about it? whether in funding or support for students, or through the intolerable pressure on the Scottish Government to Michael Moore: On the issue of bonuses, as we have respond. What does he have to say to the university made clear, we have inherited an arrangement with RBS students who will suffer so much because of the appalling that was put in place by the last Government—the hon. decision made by his party and the Scottish Liberals? Gentleman’s Government, not this one—to pay bonuses at market rates this year. We want to see bonuses lower David Mundell: Higher education in Scotland is devolved. this year than last year. That is absolutely clear-cut. As The UK Government are taking account of the impact far as customer service is concerned, the hon. Gentleman of their policies in Scotland, but I tend to agree with makes an important point, and I am sure that RBS Sir Andrew Cubie when he said that the Scottish managers will have heard it. Government were behind the curve in responding to the Browne report and bringing forward their own proposals. Mr Speaker: Eric Joyce is not here. They are followers, not leaders. [Interruption.] Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): Mr Speaker: Order. There is a constant hubbub in the With the collapse of the Bank of Scotland and the Chamber. People outside must think that it is extremely Royal Bank of Scotland, does the Minister agree that discourteous. an independent Scotland would be as successful as Ireland and Iceland at the moment? Mr Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (LD): The Minister should be aware that what is not devolved Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman makes an astute are decisions on research funding—decisions that are point as ever. arrived at here in Westminster and which will have an impact, not least for those Russell group universities in Driving Standards Agency Scotland. Will he give us an undertaking that he will ensure that the Secretary of State for Scotland stays 10. Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): What recent closely in touch with Mike Russell’s all-party working discussions he has had with the Driving Standards group at Holyrood, so that whatever the political Agency on its operations in Scotland. [35133] composition after May, we get an outcome for Scottish universities that does not replicate the errors of policy The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland judgment that have sadly been arrived at here? (David Mundell): I have had no such discussions with the agency. However, the hon. Gentleman will know David Mundell: I am happy to give my right hon. from the Westminster Hall debate that he secured on Friend an undertaking about the Scotland Office liaising the proposed closure of Arbroath and Forfar driving with the relevant Scottish Parliament committee, and test centres that the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, also to assure him that the Scotland Office works closely my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead with Universities Scotland on all issues affecting universities (Mike Penning) has agreed to look further into the in Scotland. arrangements surrounding driving test centre closures. 281 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 282
Mr Weir: The Minister is obviously aware that local bank headquarters in Edinburgh. Given that leading driving test centres in rural areas such as Angus are economists have said this morning that Scotland faces being closed without any consultation whatever, with an even greater danger than the rest of the UK of a services moved to multi-purpose test centres. Does he double-dip recession, does he accept that the decision accept that this is an unacceptable way for a Government on the location of the bank should be taken sooner agency to act? Will he press the Secretary of State for rather than later? We want it to be set up so that we can Transport, who I notice is sitting two along from him have the advantage of the jobs that it will bring now, on the Front Bench, to impose a moratorium on closures not in three or four years’ time. until, at the very least, there is adequate consultation with local communities before the removal of such Michael Moore: Unlike the previous Government, we important services? have actually made a firm commitment to the green investment bank, and we intend to deliver on that. We David Mundell: I commend the hon. Gentleman for will be making further announcements on the detail as his diligence in pursuing this issue, as he also did in his soon as possible. Westminster Hall debate. He knows that the Transport Minister took away the issues that he raised in that Devolved and Reserved Powers debate and agreed to look into them. Energy Industries 13. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): What recent representations he has received on the boundaries between devolved and reserved policy 11. Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): What matters; and if he will make a statement. [35136] assessment he has made of the effects of the outcomes of the recent state visit to Edinburgh and London of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland the vice-premier of the People’s Republic of China on (David Mundell): The Commission on Scottish Devolution the renewable and low-carbon energy industries in was established to look into this issue, and we are taking Scotland. [35134] forward recommendations of the commission in the Scotland Bill. The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): China and the United Kingdom are key partners for Miss McIntosh: Will my right hon. Friend take the growth in the future. This visit was another positive step opportunity to revisit the boundaries between reserved in strengthening relationships, and it confirms Scotland’s and devolved areas in farming matters? Does he believe reputation as a world leader in the continuing development that we in England could benefit from the way in which and application of the new technology that helps to the common agricultural policy has been applied in deliver clean green energy globally. Scotland? Mike Crockart: I thank the Secretary of State for his David Mundell: The Calman commission looked at answer. Does he agree that investment worth £6 million these issues across the full spectrum and determined in Scottish companies by the largest energy consumer in that there was no need to make any changes in respect the world will provide a perfect showcase for the benefits of agriculture, other than in respect of certain aspects of green technology? Does not the fact that Edinburgh of animal health funding. [Interruption.] seems set to see the creation of a renewable energy cluster in Leith docks further the case for the city to be the location for the new green investment bank? Mr Speaker: Order. The House must come to order. I [Interruption.] want to hear Mr Robert Halfon.
Mr Speaker: Order. There is far too much noise in the Scottish Parliament (Financial Accountability) Chamber. That is unfair on the hon. Member asking the question, and on the Minister answering it. It also 14. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What recent sends out a very bad signal to those listening to our representations he has received from the Scottish proceedings. Executive on the financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament. [35137] Michael Moore: Thank you, Mr Speaker. On my hon. Friend’s first point, may I just emphasise The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland what I said earlier, which was that the vice-premier was (David Mundell): The most recent such representations very impressed by what he saw of Scotland’s renewable related specifically to the financial provisions of the energy sector when he visited Edinburgh, and not only Scotland Bill, received around the time of its introduction by the presentations that he saw about the country’s on 30 November 2010. Since May last year, Scotland potential but specifically by seeing the Pelamis factory Office Ministers have not received any representations in Leith? My hon. Friend also makes a strong and from Scottish Ministers describing the detail or the compelling case for the green investment bank, and we estimated economic impact of any alternative proposals will announce details of that shortly. We look forward to deliver financial accountability to the Scottish Parliament. to making an announcement about its location at an appropriate moment. Robert Halfon: On average, the Government spend about £7,000 a year per person in England, but they Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ spend about £8,500 per person in Scotland. What comfort Co-op): I welcome the support that the Secretary of can the Minister give to my hard-pressed taxpayers in State has given to the establishment of the green investment Harlow that their money is being spent wisely? 283 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 284
David Mundell: The Government understand that should be with the families of all those killed and concerns have been expressed about the Barnett formula, injured, but especially with the family of Gordon Cousland but their priority is the stabilisation of the public finances. of the United Kingdom. I spoke to President Medvedev That is our priority for this Parliament. on Monday evening and offered him our complete support in ensuring that the terrorists should never be Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) allowed to win. (SNP): While the VAT rise was swift, we are still waiting for the rural fuel derogation in the islands. In my This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues constituency, fuel costs £1.45 a litre, but I have information and others, and in addition to my duties in the House, I that, in the tiny Faroe Islands, the prices is 94p a litre for shall have further such meetings later today. diesel and £1.10 for petrol. The islands control their own fuel taxation. Should not Scotland, with 5 million Mr Campbell: On behalf of my colleagues, I wish to people, have at least the powers of an island group of join in the tribute that the Prime Minister has paid. We 48,000? would also wish to send our best wishes to a soldier from Northern Ireland who was injured in Afghanistan David Mundell: I would have thought that the hon. last week. Gentleman would be pleased that we finally have a Every week, £600 million in fuel duty flows into the Government who are taking forward the issue of fuel Treasury from hard-pressed motorists right across the prices in remote and rural areas and who are looking to United Kingdom. That is £600 million each week since hold a pilot in constituencies such as his to establish the Prime Minister said that a fuel duty stabiliser was how exactly it would operate in practice. “a sensible, balanced policy that protects families from big increases Chinese Vice-Premier (State Visit) in the oil price.” He has talked about a fuel duty stabiliser; he has promised 15. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): What the it; he has answered questions on it—so when is he going outcome was of the recent visit to Scotland of the to introduce it? vice-premier of the People’s Republic of China; and if he will make a statement. [35138] The Prime Minister: I do not believe in making tax The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): changes outside a Budget, which is the proper way we I had a very constructive meeting with Vice-Premier Li do things in this country. I do think that there is a Keqiang, which builds on the existing relationship between strong case for looking at this area, because I want to our countries. As I said in response to an earlier question, see a situation where, when oil prices rise, we try to help China and the UK are key partners in growth for the motorists and share the burden with them. The hon. future. Gentleman quite rightly reminded me of something I said, so perhaps I can remind him of something he said, Mel Stride: While I welcome the commercial success as he stood on a manifesto that emphasised the need to of the Chinese deputy premier’s visit to Scotland and “reign back public spending” and stated: recognise the importance of China having good relations “A key priority of the next Government must be reducing with Scotland, does my right hon. Friend agree that it is debt”. most important for the Government to continue to I agree with that. press the Chinese Government on the issue of human rights and also to call for the prompt release of the Nobel peace laureate, Liu Xiaobo? Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): I am delighted that the Government’s new enterprise allowance will be Michael Moore: I can reassure my hon. Friend that in announced and will begin in my home area of Merseyside the course of the extensive visit by the vice-premier, we on Monday. Is it not initiatives like this that will spark not only focused on our important commercial ties and enterprise and start businesses in some of the most developing our partnership for growth, but took the deprived parts of the country? opportunity to have an ongoing dialogue about human rights and other issues. We will continue to do that—and The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is right. I hope I believe we will be successful. that Labour Members will encourage people to start up businesses and get enterprise going, as it is a private sector-led recovery that this country needs. We should PRIME MINISTER also give special help to areas like hers, which I visited recently, to try to ensure that we do everything to help growth in Merseyside and improve the prospects of the The Prime Minister was asked— Atlantic gateway—a very exciting prospect for her area and for everyone who lives and works on Merseyside. Engagements Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): I join the Q1. [35931] Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) Prime Minister in sending deepest condolences to the (DUP): If he will list his official engagements for families of those killed in the bombing at Moscow Wednesday 26 January. airport. Our thoughts are particularly with the fiancée, The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I am sure family and friends of Gordon Cousland. the whole House will want to join me in sending our Will the Prime Minister explain to the House what, in deepest condolences to all those affected by the appalling his view, is the cause of yesterday’s disappointing growth terrorist attack in Moscow on Monday. Our thoughts figures? 285 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 286
The Prime Minister: First, they are disappointing This man, who is entirely independent and in charge of growth figures—and they are disappointing even excluding the OECD, is giving us good advice, and I advise the what the Office for National Statistics says about the right hon. Gentleman—as he has a new shadow Chancellor extreme weather. The point I would make is that this and can make a new start—to follow it. country has a very difficult economic situation for two main reasons. First, we have the biggest budget deficit Edward Miliband: The difference is that when we left in Europe, and we have to get to grips with it, which is office the economy was growing. Now the Prime Minister difficult. Secondly, we had the biggest banking boom is in office, and it is not. and the biggest banking bust anywhere in Europe, and I have a very specific question to ask the Prime we have to deal with that. As my right hon. Friend the Minister. He has already made clear his decision on Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England and I VAT, but he still has a choice to make about whether to have all said, it is inevitable that, as we recover from go ahead with the decision to take another £20 billion those things, it will be choppy and it will be difficult. out of the economy this year when the recovery is The worst thing to do would be to ditch our plans on fragile. Is he telling the House and the country that he is the basis of one quarter’s figures. determined to go ahead, irrespective of the figures and irrespective of what people up and down the country Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister has been are feeling? going around for months saying that our economy is out of the danger zone. Only a month ago, he told the The Prime Minister: We have now heard what I think House: we are going to hear a lot more of: the theory that there “It is because Britain’s economy is out of the danger zone and was a golden inheritance from the Labour party. That is recovering.”—[Official Report, 15 December 2010; Vol. 520, c. 901.] one of the most laughable propositions that I have ever May I ask him to confirm that? He said that if we set heard put in the House of Commons. aside the bad weather, the figures were not good. In We will not forget that we had the biggest budget fact, if we set aside the bad weather, growth was completely deficit in the whole of Europe, and that we were spending flat. There was no growth in the last quarter of 2010: no £120 million every day just on the interest on that growth at all. deficit. We inherited a situation in which, because of the regulation carried out by the right hon. Gentleman and The Prime Minister: That is exactly what the figures the shadow Chancellor when they were in the Treasury, show, yes. we had the biggest boom and the biggest bust in our The right hon. Gentleman asked about the danger banking system. We had a growth model that was based zone. The point that I would make is this. Britain is no on uncontrollable boom in housing, uncontrollable boom longer linked with countries such as Greece, Ireland in financial services, uncontrolled public spending, and and Portugal. Everyone was clear about the position uncontrolled immigration. We inherited a completely before the last election. The Institute of Directors, the bust system from the two people who worked in the Confederation of British Industry and the Governor of Treasury throughout the last Labour Government. the Bank of England all said that there was no credible plan to deal with the deficit. Edward Miliband: I suppose we can take it from that If you do not deal with your debts, you will never answer that the Prime Minister is not going to change have growth. That is the truth, and the right hon. course. He is not going to do anything to bring about Gentleman knows it. growth in the economy. This is how out of touch he is. What people up and down the country are saying is that he is going too far and too fast with deficit reduction, Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister does not get it. and that that is what is inhibiting growth in this country. If you do not have growth, you will never cut the deficit. That is what we saw in the last quarter of 2010. The evidence shows that while cuts are being made in the public sector and while jobs are being lost in the As millions of families and businesses are worried public sector, jobs are not being created in the private about their livelihoods and see unemployment rising, sector. Why does not the Prime Minister, just for once, inflation rising and growth stalled, what the country put his arrogance aside, and admit that he knows how wants to know from the Prime Minister is whether he is to cut jobs but has absolutely no idea how he is going to going to change his strategy in any way in order to get create them? the economy moving. The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman has The Prime Minister: What we need to do in our got to stop writing his questions before he comes to the country is get the deficit down, and at the same time do Chamber and actually listens to the answer. He asks everything that we can to encourage growth. Let me about changing course, and I have to say to him that he read to the right hon. Gentleman what the head of the seems to have replaced a shadow Chancellor who did OECD said about the British economy, because I think not understand Labour’s programme with one who that it is absolutely vital. He said: does not agree with it. He asks specifically about cuts “the UK was exceptional in terms of its needs of fiscal consolidation next year. Let me just remind him that it is Labour’s because the deficit had gone completely out of control.” own plan for significant cuts in spending to start in He also said: April this year. He shakes his head, but that is his plan, “I think dealing with the deficit is the best way to prepare the which he is meant to be committed to. If he is now ground for growth in the future. In fact, if you don’t deal with the saying that that has all gone and Labour is just going to deficit you can be assured that there will not be growth because spend more and borrow more, he ought to tell us. As far confidence will not recover.” as I can hear, his only plan is to borrow money we have 287 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 288 not got, to spend money on things we cannot afford, does not have a growth strategy; the economy has and not to do the work we need to do to sort this taken a highly predictable downturn; he has lost his economy out. Essex man; and I understand that there were forecasts of snow for the end of the week. Is there anyone Edward Miliband: I am surprised that the Prime remaining in the Government who still understands or Minister is raising personnel issues this week of all is in touch with the concerns of ordinary people, whose weeks, because who has made the right judgment, me, jobs are under threat because of his policies? who appointed the shadow Chancellor, or him, who clung on to Andy Coulson for months? The Prime Minister: The point I would make is that When people listen to the Prime Minister they will the CBI says very clearly that it is absolutely essential know what the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and that we get to grips with the deficit. What it said at the Howden (Mr Davis) meant when he said that the Prime time of Labour’s last Budget was that there was not a Minister and Chancellor credible plan; it believes that there now is a credible “don’t have a sense of what a large part of the country” plan. This is not going to be easy. The Labour party is committed to cuts from April this year. This will not be feels. They are out of touch with people’s lives, they are easy, but it has to be done. taking a reckless gamble, and what these figures show is that for millions of people up and down the country it is Q3. [35933] Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): The hurting but it is not working. Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition that has been running Reading borough council since last May has The Prime Minister: If it was such a good decision to uncovered the fact that over the past 12 years the have the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood previous Labour administration spent £1.4 million of (Ed Balls) as shadow Chancellor, why did the right hon. taxpayers’ money funding the salaries of three full-time Gentleman not appoint him in the first place? union officials. Does the Prime Minister agree that that Let me just make the point that the absolute key for is an inappropriate use of taxpayers’ money and that this country and our economy is two things: we have to full-time union officials should be paid for by union deal with our deficit; and we have to help deliver growth subscriptions? from our private sector. I think that the right hon. Gentleman should listen to what the Governor of the The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very Bank of England said last night in his speech. good point. It seems that in local government the Labour [Interruption.] Perhaps Labour Members will want to politicians pay the unions, whereas in national politics listen to the Governor of the Bank of England, who the unions pay for the Labour politicians. It is nice work said: if you can get it. “The UK economy is well-placed to return to sustained, balanced growth over the next few years”. Q4. [35934] Mr David Crausby (Bolton North East) He said that this was partly as a result of the (Lab): The Government have switched the indexation “credible…path of fiscal consolidation”. of benefits and public sector pensions from the retail He continued: prices index to the lower consumer prices index, but when it comes to hiking up petrol, they continue to use “the right course has been set, and it is important we maintain it.” the higher retail prices index. In the interests of I prefer the advice of the Governor of the Bank of fairness, how can the Prime Minister justify using the England to that of the man sitting opposite. higher indexation for petrol? Should the Government not at the very least use one or the other? Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): Mr Speaker—[Interruption.] The Prime Minister: I can give the hon. Gentleman one tip. Before writing the question, it is always good to Mr Speaker: Order. I wish to hear Jacob Rees-Mogg. work out one’s own party’s policy. The Opposition are now committed to increasing benefits by CPI rather Jacob Rees-Mogg: Thank you, Mr Speaker. than RPI. His party is backing our policy and is far Is not the lesson from the noble Baroness Thatcher from opposing it. that, when you have set an economic course, you should stick to it—“there is no alternative”? Q5. [35935] Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Recent work by the Nuffield Foundation has Hon. Members: More! shown that Britain has the lowest proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds studying mathematics of any of our The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has a huge competitor countries in the OECD. Just as bad, we following in all parts of the House. The point he makes have a chronic shortage of maths teachers in our is important: it is that whatever your plans to encourage schools. What action are the Government going to take growth in the economy—we have the lowest corporate on this issue? tax rate in the G7, we have abolished Labour’s jobs tax, and we are investing in science and skills, all of which The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very are necessary—without a plan to deal with the deficit, good point. The Nuffield Foundation has produced an they are nothing. extremely worthwhile report on how badly we are doing with maths teaching and in terms of the number of Q2. [35932] Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I think the people studying maths. We will be taking a series of Prime Minister would accept that he has had better steps to sort this out, which will be announced by my weeks. He has lost the support of the CBI because he right hon. Friend the Education Secretary. One is to 289 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 290 expand Teach First, which is an excellent scheme to get Member for Belfast West (Mr Adams) seems to be graduates from our best universities into schools, and extremely embarrassed about applying for an office for which, for the first time, will include primary schools. profit under the Crown although he has shown no such Many of them will be maths teachers. We also want to embarrassment in profiting from his office in this House raise the bar for teachers as regards the qualifications for many years at taxpayers’ expense. When will the they need to teach maths. That is vital in our country Prime Minister deliver on his pre-election pledge to and my hon. Friend is right to highlight the issue. hard-pressed taxpayers that he will abolish parliamentary money for parliamentary purposes going to those who Q6. [35936] Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab): Last do not fulfil their parliamentary duties? Friday, I visited my constituent Vera Gaskin at her Livingston home. Mrs Gaskin has hepatitis C, having The Prime Minister: First of all, just in case everyone contracted it in 1985 through a transfusion of has not caught up with the news, the right hon. Gentleman contaminated blood. She had been diagnosed with is quite right that the hon. Member for Belfast West has Hodgkin’s disease at the time. Of course, her situation accepted an office of profit under the Crown, which is is not dissimilar to that of the several thousands of of course the only way to retire from this House. I am people who also suffered due to the tainted blood not sure that Gerry Adams will be delighted to be a scandal of the 1970s and 1980s. Sadly, many have Baron of the Manor of Northstead, but none the less, I passed away since. Obviously, I am aware of previous am pleased that tradition has been maintained. On the debates in the House on the matter and the statement very serious point that the right hon. Gentleman makes by the Health Secretary on 10 January, but this does about allowances, in my view we should be aiming for not bring closure to many victims and their families. all Members who are elected to take their seats in this Will the Prime Minister personally prioritise this House. That is what should happen and if some Members matter, work with the devolved Administrations and have a problem with what that entails, they ought to introduce a proper compensation scheme, thus finally look at a remedy for that and should come and talk bringing justice to the innocent victims of this terrible about it. That is the most important thing we could tragedy? achieve.
The Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Gentleman for Q8. [35938] Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): Will the that question. He has had constituents come to him Prime Minister join me in congratulating Vaynor first about this extremely difficult issue and I have had school in Redditch, where I am chairman of the exactly the same experience in my constituency. Although governors, on having recently received a good Ofsted previous Governments had put arrangements in place, report despite the continual lack of fairer funding from there was a basic unfairness, particularly towards those the Labour party? Will he also welcome the extra who caught hepatitis C, because the evidence about funding that will be heading to Worcestershire schools, what happens to people with AIDS and hepatitis C has due to the pupil premium, totalling more than changed over the years. I was pleased that my right hon. £3 million? Friend the Health Secretary made the statement last week that we would increase what was being given to The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very those suffering from hepatitis C. I am not sure that good point, and I hope that everyone in the House will there is ever a level of payment that will bring closure be able to welcome the fact, first, that the amount of for such an appalling accident, but I believe that the spending per pupil will continue, even though we have a conditions in this country were different from those in very tough and difficult situation in our country. Over other countries that campaigners often compare it to, and above that, there will be a pupil premium payment— such as the Republic of Ireland. I think we have the something that the Labour party did not do in 13 years right answer. of being in power. This money will go to those from deprived backgrounds in schools all over our country, Q7. [35937] Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): The mobility and not just in inner-city areas; as she says, her constituency component of disability living allowance for people in will benefit. I think the whole House should celebrate care homes is being reviewed. Whatever improvements that. are made, will the Prime Minister assure me that disabled people in care homes will still have access to Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab): The individually tailored mobility support, and that that former investigating officer is now on the payroll of will be, as the coalition agreement implies, at no extra News International and three senior editors have been cost to them or their families? identified in relation to phone hacking—is it not time that another police force took over the inquiry? You The Prime Minister: I am grateful for my right hon. have the status to make it happen, Prime Minister. Friend’s question. The intention here is very clear: we What are you afraid of? want to ensure that the treatment of people in hospital is the same as the treatment of people in residential care The Prime Minister: Let me be absolutely clear: phone homes in terms of the mobility component of DLA. hacking is wrong and illegal, and it is quite right that That was behind the announcement we made, and that the Director of Public Prosecutions is reviewing all the is what we want to make sure happens. evidence, which should be followed wherever it leads. I do not think it is necessarily fair to say the police have Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The Prime not been active—after all, there have been prosecutions, Minister may be aware that one of the Members elected convictions, and indeed imprisonments—but the law is to this House has decided to emigrate, and he may want quite clear and the prosecuting authorities should follow to chalk that up as one of his achievements. The hon. it wherever it leads. 291 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 292
Q9. [35939] Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): sure whether she has changed her mind since. Can he Tomorrow is Holocaust memorial day—the anniversary give the House an assurance that he will continue to of the day on which Auschwitz was liberated. Will my build on the strong bilateral links between Britain and right hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to the Holocaust Bangladesh? Education Trust and its work to ensure that the lessons of the holocaust are not forgotten? The Prime Minister: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The Prime Minister is very welcome to The Prime Minister: I know that my hon. Friend Britain and also welcome to be watching our deliberations speaks for the whole House when he raises the brilliant today. As the right hon. Gentleman says, whether she work that the Holocaust Education Trust does. I think will go away feeling proud and excited by what the this is a good time to pay tribute to the, sadly very few, mother of Parliaments does on Wednesday at 12 o’clock holocaust survivors left. I had the huge privilege of is another question. She has already had a very good meeting one, Trude Levi, yesterday in No. 10 Downing meeting with my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime street. To hear the story of what those people went Minister. Relations between Britain and Bangladesh are through, what they escaped, and in many cases what good, and we need to expand them still further. they had to go through even after they escaped, is truly humbling. We must never forget—not just because of Q12. [35942] Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): what happened in Europe in the holocaust, but because My constituents, Ben Oldroyd and Matthew Carr, are too often there is genocide in our world today; we need autistic and have Asperger’s syndrome. They have to be permanently reminded of that fact. asked for my help because they want to visit schools in the Selby district to speak to pupils and staff and give Q10. [35940] Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) them their experience of living with autism and the (Lab/Co-op): The Prime Minister, the Chancellor and challenges that they face with that condition. They the majority of the Cabinet grew up in secure worlds of have already received praise from the head of Brayton economic wealth and privilege. Does the Prime high school. Does my right hon. Friend agree that such Minister agree that today’s young people face economic an initiative could be extremely good news for schools uncertainty and high youth unemployment? Is youth and the teaching profession? unemployment a price worth paying? The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for his The Prime Minister: It never is—but youth question, which raises an important point. We made unemployment has been a structural problem in our good steps during the last Parliament, with the Autism country for years. Under the previous Government, Bill promoted by the now Secretary of State for Wales, when the economy grew for many years, youth my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and unemployment was worse at the end of that growth Amersham (Mrs Gillan), but there is a huge amount than it was at the beginning. Then, of course, it rocketed that can be done by people themselves to get a greater during the recession. We need a serious examination of understanding of autism and Asperger’s, not least because how we can reduce the number of people who are not in there is such a huge spectrum and such a big difference education, not in employment and not in training. between the children suffering from those conditions. I Rather than trading slogans across the House, it would am sure the work to which my hon. Friend refers is be better to work out why the number has gone up in extremely worthwhile. good times and in bad.
Q11. [35941] Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con): Unlike Dr Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): Last the NHS or my local council, Manorlands, a Sue Ryder week the Prime Minister said something that I agree hospice in my constituency, is not able to reclaim the with: he said that we needed to do something about VAT that it has paid. May I ask the Prime Minister to loan-sharking, so will he join me next week in supporting examine the issue and try to create a level playing field the motion to cut the cost of credit and support the for health care charities? poorest consumers in Britain with protection from those companies? The Prime Minister: I know this is an issue that many hon. Members care about deeply. We should all pay The Prime Minister: At the risk of building on what is tribute to the hospice movement and what it does, clearly a blossoming friendship already, I will look working with our health service. It is important that we carefully at what the hon. Lady says. On the issue of do everything we can to cut red tape and allow charities controlling loan sharks, one part should be encouraging to thrive. Charities can and do reclaim some of their credit unions. There is all-party support for that. Sometimes VAT, but in considering a bigger exemption such as my we have to be careful as we regulate that we do not drive hon. Friend speaks about, we have to look at the out responsible operators and bring in loan sharks, so consequences both for the state sector and the private we must get the balance right. I will look carefully at sector, and their relationship with the voluntary sector, what the hon. Lady is saying and perhaps get back to before we can take such a step. her.
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): Will the Prime Q13. [35943] Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Minister join me in welcoming the visit of the Prime Herefordshire) (Con): Last week the Public Accounts Minister of Bangladesh to the United Kingdom and to Committee found that the previous Labour Government Parliament? Apparently, a few years ago, when she had pushed through private finance initiative deals without came to Prime Minister’s questions, she was so impressed offering any alternative, and often regardless of expense that she decided to institute it in Bangladesh. I am not or value for money. The result has cost the taxpayer 293 Oral Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 294 billions of pounds too much. Does the Prime Minister Q15. [35945] Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): share my view that there should now be a full investigation With the economy shrinking by 5% and inflation of why and how that happened? rising, having followed Ireland on the path of cutting too fast and too deep, are we not now in danger of The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for his following Ireland further down that slippery slope? question. The Public Accounts Committee can do a lot of that work by unveiling some of the appalling decisions that were made, which were just about off-balance-sheet The Prime Minister: I am sorry to tell the hon. Lady accounting, rather than good value for money. I see the that the 5% reduction was under her Government, not shadow Chancellor nodding, but he was in the Treasury this Government. If the former shadow Chancellor’s when all that happened. As in so many cases, what we primer has gone missing, perhaps she could get hold of will find is that the mistakes that we now have to pay for a copy. When we came to office in May, the idea that are the responsibility of Gordon Brown’s two henchmen there was some acceptable plan to reduce the deficit is a sitting on the Opposition Front Bench. complete fiction. Let me just give her this one figure. If we went ahead with the plan of halving the deficit in Q14. [35944] Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) four years, in four years’ time our deficit would be (Lab/Co-op): The Prime Minister used to talk rather a bigger than Portugal’s is now. Does anybody think that lot about fairness, but he has not done so well on that is a credible path back to growth and confidence? It performance, so here is a test for him. The banks have is not. walked away from the talks on bankers’ bonuses. What will he do about it? Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): One of the most important strands in the Government’s growth strategy The Prime Minister: The talks are ongoing, and I will has been the creation of 75,000 additional apprenticeships. tell the right hon. Gentleman what I want. I want the Does the Prime Minister agree that the forthcoming banks to pay more in tax, and they will pay more in tax, national apprenticeship week and the Gloucestershire up from £18 billion last year to £20 billion next year. He apprenticeship fair represent a great opportunity to says they have walked away; they have not. These talks get young constituents to earn while they learn, especially in are ongoing, and I want to see the taxes go up, the the manufacturing sectors, which are growing faster bonuses come down, but vitally, the lending increase. I now than at any time under the previous Government? am confident that we will achieve all those three goals.
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an excellent I know that the Prime Minister regards Blackpool as a point. In the spending review, we had to take difficult special place, as indeed he should. Does he agree that it decisions, particularly on welfare and pay, but as a is about time that Blackpool’s unique status as the first result we are able to expand the number of apprenticeships working-class seaside resort should be recognised with to a record level, an extra 75,000. Yes, the growth UNESCO world heritage status? figures are disappointing, but manufacturing and exports are up, and we are starting to rebalance the economy The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a powerful away from the unsustainable booms that we had under case for his constituency. I have a warm feeling whenever the Labour Government. I think of Blackpool, because of the many conferences that I have attended there and the time that I have spent there. I understand, as I know he does, the pressures Mr Speaker: Order. Before the right hon. Member for that it faces because of changing patterns of tourism Rotherham (Mr MacShane) asks his urgent question, I and development, and the Government are committed appeal to hon. and right hon. Members who are leaving to helping Blackpool to map out a strong future. It is the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, so that those also wonderful to see Blackpool where they belong in who are interested in the next business can attend the premier league. properly to it. A quiet and speedy exit is required. 295 26 JANUARY 2011 BBC World Service 296
BBC World Service him it has gone down. He is doing in part what no dictator has ever achieved: silencing the voice of the BBC, the voice of Britain, the voice of democracy, and 12.33 pm the voice of balanced journalism at a time when it is Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab) (Urgent needed more than ever. Question): To ask the Foreign Secretary if he will make I have an interest to declare. It was the World Service a statement on BBC World Service cuts. that broadcast my arrest and imprisonment 30 years ago in communist Poland, thus helping to secure my The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth fairly swift release. This week there is turmoil in the Affairs (Mr William Hague): The House will agree that Balkans, where people were killed and injured in Tirana the BBC World Service performs an invaluable role, last Friday and where Serbia and Macedonia remain reflecting British democratic values overseas and supporting without a European future. There is turmoil in Russia, British influence in the world, and that the services it where no one trusts the Putin-controlled media. There provides are a beacon to many in some of the poorest is turmoil in Africa, from Egypt and Tunisia down to and most insecure countries in the world. We announced Ivory Coast and Zimbabwe. What are the Government in October that from 2014 responsibility for the BBC doing? They are axing the voice of the BBC—the voice World Service will be transferred to the BBC itself and of Britain and our values—in Albanian, Serbian and funded from the licence fee, a move that has been Macedonian. They are cutting services to Angola, welcomed by the World Service and the BBC Trust as Mozambique, Russia and China. They are taking the providing new opportunities for the World Service to BBC off the air as other non or semi-democracies develop in the future. In the meantime, the World replace BBC truth with their propaganda. Service, like any other taxpayer-funded body, must ensure The Foreign Secretary secured a flat cash settlement that it is working on the right priorities and as efficiently for his own Foreign and Commonwealth Office diplomats, as possible. I announced in October that its expenditure but he has made the World Service the main victim of limits would be reduced by 16% in real terms over the his cuts with a 20% real-terms reduction. That will cost next three years. the jobs of hundreds of journalists who come from As I set out in a written statement earlier today, we every corner of the world to offer their linguistic and are providing £13 million per annum to help with the political expertise to our nation. deficit in BBC pension funds and £10 million per annum Finally, does the Foreign Secretary accept that just for new services in markets that we and the World 0.5% of the UK’s total spend on international work Service have identified as priorities. Those include TV goes to the World Service? I urge him to look across the programming in Urdu, in sub-Saharan Africa and in range of UK overseas spending, including some sacred Hindi to be provided to local partners. We have also cows, and reverse the World Service cuts before irreparable guaranteed the capital for the move of the World Service damage is done to our country. If he cannot do that, he to its new offices in W1. That is proper provision for the should let us have a Foreign Secretary who will allow future of the World Service and will make up for Britain to maintain its voice in the world. inherited deficits. The other services provided by the World Service Mr Hague: When the right hon. Gentleman talks cannot stand still, and those that have become less well about Poland, one would never imagine that the World used because of the rise of local broadcasters or falling Service’s Polish service was closed by the Government shortwave audiences sometimes have to close. It is the of whom he was a member. When he talks about the World Service’s responsibility to be as efficient as possible Balkans, one would never imagine that the Bulgarian, while maintaining as many services as possible, something Croatian and Slovene services were also closed by the the previous Government recognised when in 2006 they Government of whom he was a member. It was apparently closed 10 separate language services of the World Service. fine under the previous Government sometimes to have The World Service initially suggested to the Foreign to change priorities, but it is not fine now. Office the closure of up to 13 language services, but I The right hon. Gentleman asks about the Russian refused to give permission for that. I have agreed to the services. In Russia, online audiences have increased by closure of five language services, accounting for 3.5 million 120% in the past 12 months, while radio audiences have listeners out of the total audience of 180 million. declined by 85% since 2001. That is why it is absolutely Withdrawal from shortwave and other services will have right for the World Service to move more of its services a bigger effect, but they will rightly allow for concentration to online and mobile services; that is the way the world on online and mobile services for the future. is going, even though he might not have noticed it. The BBC World Service has a viable and promising Of course the World Service has to move with the future, but it is not immune from public spending future, and of course occasionally some services have to constraints or the reassessment of its priorities. While close. The right hon. Gentleman recognised that when any closures might be regretted, they would not be he was a Minister. It is a pity he does not recognise it necessary at all were it not for the inherited BBC now. pension deficit and the vast public deficit inherited from the previous Government. Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): The World Service together with the British Council are hugely Mr MacShane: May I remind the right hon. Gentleman valued services and probably the most effective way of that he is Her Majesty’s principal Secretary of State for advancing Britain’s perceptions of the world. What we Foreign Affairs, not a pensions actuary at KPMG? In have here is an inevitable consequence of restoring every year of the previous Labour Government, the stability to the economy. As my right hon. Friend says, grant in aid to the foreign service went up, but under funding for the World Service will transfer to the BBC 297 BBC World Service26 JANUARY 2011 BBC World Service 298 from 2014. Will he confirm that, with the savings that in this country. That is the right and fair thing to do, the transfer will make and the move to Broadcasting and now we have to work with the World Service and house that is going on at the moment, it is open to the support it in making the best possible job of that. BBC to increase funding after 2014? The Chinese service reaches a very small number of people compared with the size of the Chinese population, Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Indeed, and it needs refocusing. The new, enriched online service there is some degree of excitement in the BBC Trust will aim to reach not only people in China, but 67 million about that—about the potential in being able to bring Chinese people who live outside China, and it is designed together more easily the resources of the BBC and the to be more appealing to younger audiences. Again, experience of the BBC World Service. For instance, it there is a rationale for many of the changes that the might be able to develop BBC World television more World Service proposes, albeit within financial constraints. successfully, so there is a positive side to look forward to, and that is what the House should concentrate on. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Given the huge influence of Islamist television channels such as Hezbollah and Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire al-Jazeera, will my right hon. Friend confirm that resources South) (Lab): I should be interested if the Foreign will continue to be spent on BBC World Service TV and Secretary could, for the sake of the House, adduce the radio services in the middle east, and on the Arabic evidence whereby the BBC Trust is excited at the prospect service? of the cuts that have been announced today. The director- general of the BBC has made it clear that the cuts are a Mr Hague: Absolutely. That is, of course, a major direct consequence of last autumn’s spending review. Of area of the World Service’s broadcasting. None of the course, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should language service closures that are envisaged or agreed not be exempt from the need to reduce the deficit, but in to will affect the middle east. Those closures are of making cuts in the FCO, especially to a relatively small services in Albanian, Macedonian, Serbian, Portuguese budget that has a global impact, there is surely a need for Africa and English for the Caribbean. The work of for particular care and concern. the BBC World Service in the middle east will continue at its current strength. Will the right hon. Gentleman explain what proportion of the cuts to the FCO under the spending review Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): These cuts are a settlement will be absorbed by the core FCO budget as direct result of the Foreign Secretary’s decision to allow distinct from the World Service and, indeed, the British the funding of the World Service to pass from his Council? Will he set out his explanation of why the Department to the licence fee payer. Many of us warned BBC World Service will absorb 16% to 20% real-terms that that would happen at the time. The countries where cuts as against 10% real-terms cuts for the FCO? Will language services have been closed that he listed in he explain how his often-stated ambition to strengthen response to my right hon. Friend the Member for bilateral relations with the BRIC countries—Brazil, Rotherham (Mr MacShane) were all European democracies Russia, India and China—is advanced by the end of within the European Union; that is not the case with the radio programming in Mandarin Chinese? The reach language services the Foreign Secretary is closing. Why and respect of the BBC World Service is a huge asset for should the BBC spend any more money on language Britain, and the Government should not put that at services that the licence fee payer has no interest in and, risk. in many cases, cannot listen to?
Mr Hague: May I first of all welcome the right hon. Mr Hague: In case there is any confusion, there is no Gentleman to the Dispatch Box? I look forward to connection between these reductions and the transfer of working with him and to many exchanges with him, the BBC World Service to licence fee funding, which although we will always remember that he was Minister will take place in four years’ time. For the next three for Europe when £7 billion of our rebate was given years, the BBC World Service will continue to be funded away, which would of course have paid for the World directly out of public expenditure. Just to make it clear Service 30 times over. We may have to remind him of for the right hon. Gentleman, the reductions are therefore that on future occasions as well. not the direct consequence of that decision. The services I did not say that the BBC was excited about the that closed under the previous Government were not reductions in the budget, but, considering the meeting just European democracies in the European Union; that I had with the corporation about the issue in they also closed the Kazakh and Thai services. The October, I can say that it is certainly excited about the closures were much more widespread. As I said, the potential in bringing together the work of the BBC and previous Government recognised that closures sometimes the World Service, so my evidence is the meeting that I had to take place. Labour Members must recognise that had with Sir Michael Lyons and his colleagues. unless they oppose all reductions in Government expenditure, sometimes these things have to happen. It is true that in this spending round the real-terms cut in the Foreign Office budget is 10% and in the World Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): Cuts in the jewel in the Service budget 16%, but it is true also that in the crown of this country are clearly disappointing. Does previous three years the cut in the core Foreign Office the Foreign Secretary accept that the World Service budget was much greater. On the effect of all that, by makes a huge contribution to our international development 2013-14 the proportion of the Foreign Office budget agenda? Is he willing at least to discuss with the Secretary accounted for by the World Service will be pretty much of State for International Development whether his exactly the same as it was when the right hon. Gentleman Department, which currently makes no contribution, was a Minister in the Foreign Office, five years ago. We could make a small contribution? For example, £3 million ask the World Service only to bear its fair share of the a year would save the Russian and Mandarin Chinese public expenditure reductions, which are obviously necessary services. 299 BBC World Service26 JANUARY 2011 BBC World Service 300
Mr Hague: I point out to my right hon. Friend that the World Service established television in Arabic and there are merits in the changes to the Russian and Persian and new online services, and that the previous Chinese services, for the reasons that I have given about Government did not preside over a cut of 650 staff or changing patterns of usage. It is not clear that if the make it face 16% cuts, which it now faces when the BBC World Service had a few million pounds extra, Foreign Office is suffering only 10% cuts? Is that not a keeping those services exactly as they are would be the direct consequence of his agreement to the budget cuts best use of that money. However, that would be for the and his choices? World Service to decide. I am looking at whether additional funding can be provided in this financial year to help Mr Hague: The previous Government doubled the with the restructuring costs. It is not impossible that we national debt in four years and ran up a budget deficit will find some additional money for the World Service. of 11% of our gross domestic product. That is why we A good part of the public money that is spent on the are now in a period of public spending restraint, whether World Service is ODA-able—official development in the World Service or any other area. assistance—expenditure, so it falls within that category. I think that my colleagues in the Department for Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): In response to my International Development and all other Departments right hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr Foster), the would agree with my assessment that public spending Foreign Secretary acknowledged that World Service discipline has to apply to all parts of the public sector, funding was ODA-able in some cases. Does he envisage including the BBC World Service. having discussions with DFID, given the increased commitment to operating in fragile and post-conflict Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): Is states and the consequences of withdrawing the Portuguese it not a fact that the BBC World Service is the most for Africa, Nepali, Swahili and great lakes services? trusted voice in the world—more trusted than any There could be scope for an agreement between the two Government, and more trusted than any other broadcaster Departments to reinstate or maintain those services. in English or any other language? Therefore, to undermine the BBC World Service is to undermine truth. Is it not Mr Hague: As I said, a good deal of the expenditure essential for the right hon. Gentleman to accept that it is already ODA-able. I do not know what scope that is about time that this Government dedicated themselves leaves for additional ODA-able funding, but DFID is to truth and trust, and not to spin? already in the process of setting its own priorities, which do not normally include supporting the Mr Hague: These are the straightforward facts of the operations of the BBC World Service. Overall, these matter. The fact that the previous Government closed changes are necessary. I said that I am considering 10 services in 2006 is nothing to do with spin; it is the whether additional money can be provided to help the sheer truth of the matter. One point I would make to World Service through the restructuring—I am talking the right hon. Gentleman is that one of the advantages— about only up to a few million pounds, but it may be of although not a decisive advantage on its own—of assistance. I cannot promise a large part of the DFID transferring the BBC World Service into the BBC is that budget for this cause. it will no longer be possible to make the argument, which is sometimes made around the world, that the BBC Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): I World Service is an arm of the British Government and used to be accused of having a typical foreigner’s emotional is funded directly from the Foreign Office, and that attachment to the World Service, and I plead guilty to therefore some suspicion should be cast on it. By showing that. The Foreign Secretary has a sense of history and the world that the BBC World Service, which is known knows that the World Service’s reputation is based on for its impartiality and independence, will be part of the not just its independence but its exceptional quality. BBC, rather than funded by the Foreign Office, we are The latest round of more than 600 redundancies will underlining, rather than undermining, its independence. cut into its core and undermine it, because it will not have enough journalists. As a historian, he cannot be Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): Given the inevitable proud to be the Foreign Secretary who will oversee the reordering of the finances of the World Service, does final death of the World Service. the Foreign Secretary agree that it is none the less essential, in a world in which the media move at an Mr Hague: None of us who are conscious of history extraordinarily fast pace and the world itself is changing can preside over a Government heading towards the so rapidly, that it has the capacity to change if it needs bankruptcy of this country, and that is why we have to to do so, and that its capabilities should not be set in have spending restraint across the public sector. I stress stone? that, as I said in my initial answer to the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), there is a Mr Hague: Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. viable and strong future for the BBC World Service. The That was why I emphasised the changing nature of the right place for it is with the BBC itself, which has taken demand for World Service broadcasting and the rapidly it on with enthusiasm. It is wrong to pretend that there increasing online demand, particularly for its Russian should never be any changes or reductions, and of services. Such things do not stand still, which of course course we have to ensure that we live within our means means that the skills and personnel required sometimes in this country. These changes are part of doing that. change. There should be wider recognition of that. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): Does Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): The Foreign my right hon. Friend accept that the BBC World Service, Secretary has referred several times to what happened along with the British Council, has a huge world reputation under the previous Government. Will he confirm that in exchanging views and knowledge from the western 301 BBC World Service26 JANUARY 2011 BBC World Service 302 world? Does he accept also that it is not just the number Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): There is very of people who receive a service that counts? It is precisely deep concern in the House about this decision, and I the minorities in difficult parts of the world who need hope that the Foreign Secretary will reconsider it with truth and independent advice. Cabinet colleagues. In particular, I hope that he will take a look at the overseas aid budget, which is increasing Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and by 37% in real terms at a time when he intends to that was one reason why I was anxious to avoid a larger implement 16% cuts to the World Service. I hope that he scale of language service closures than those to which I will hear the message from the House that if there is a have agreed. We have limited them to five language choice between the two, we want to put the World services, along with other changes to the BBC World Service first. Service, partly because of the reason he gives. Mr Hague: I stress to my hon. Friend that a good deal of the World Service’s budget already counts as Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Will the Foreign ODA-able expenditure, so he should not think that Secretary join me in paying tribute to all the staff of the turning to DFID for the money is an easy answer. I BBC World Service working both in this country and reiterate my view that all parts of the public sector must abroad? Is he giving any consideration to helping the join in in becoming more efficient, and the BBC World BBC with the redundancies that will occur as a result of Service will be part of the public sector for the next his decision, many of them affecting people in specialist three years. positions? Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Mr Hague: I have paid tribute on many occasions to Given the scale of the Foreign Secretary’s announcement, the staff involved and to the BBC for the service that it what guarantee can he give that the BBC’s non-partisanship provides around the world, and I do so again. I said that and impartiality in reporting, which has always been a we might be able to find some additional help with the hallmark of its broadcasting capabilities, will be maintained restructuring costs, and I mentioned in my initial answer in future? the money that we have included in the settlement to underwrite the World Service’s move to new headquarters Mr Hague: I do not anticipate that anything that we and to ensure that some new services can be developed. are announcing today will have any impact on that There is a strong commitment to the future of the important part of the character of the BBC. As other World Service. hon. Members have underlined, that is part of the reason for the respect for the World Service, and it is Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): In his committed to continuing that character. correspondence with Sir Michael Lyons, which has been placed in the Library today, the Foreign Secretary Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): The BBC states that he will Monitoring service is recognised globally as being of the highest quality, and it is essential to a number of our “seek to find ways to make some additional funding available this allies. Given the inevitable cost savings that have to be year, providing those funds can be used to generate savings in future years.” found, can the Foreign Secretary confirm that he is not looking to cut back the monitoring service? What conversations has he had with the BBC Trust about that, and can he confirm whether he has met Mr Hague: The monitoring service is not part of Sir Michael Lyons in person during his negotiations? today’s announcement, but it will of course have to make savings, because it, too, is funded from Government Mr Hague: Yes, I have met Sir Michael in person a expenditure. Further details of that will follow. couple of times. On the subject of what discussions are taking place, I am awaiting further details from the Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The World Service of how it would use any additional Foreign Secretary will know that there used to be a money this year to help make the savings and consensus throughout the House for supporting the rationalisations that we have discussed. BBC World Service—we saw off the Thatcher Government together when they attacked it. Should he not hang his Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): The BBC head in shame today? These are cuts of a scale beyond World Service provides a vital link to the outside world anything that went on under previous Governments, to for oppressed countries and isolated countries such as a service that is cherished by the British people, who will Burma. The Foreign Secretary will remember the important punish him. They are part of his overall plan to please role that the Burmese service played during the Rupert Murdoch and denigrate the BBC. demonstrations back in 2007. Will he assure the House Mr Hague: There is a sort of ridiculous air to that that those considerations will be taken into account in question, if I may say so. Clearly, my announcement the future, to ensure that we do not pull such important was nothing to do with the last matter to which the hon. services away from those countries? Gentleman referred. It is necessary to make savings in Government expenditure because of the performance Mr Hague: Yes, the hon. Lady is absolutely right, and of the Government whom he supported. I certainly would not agree to the closure of services for Burma, even if it were proposed. The considerations Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): What analysis that she underlines, such as the help that the World has the Foreign Secretary made of the benefits to Service provides to people in oppressed countries, must Britain’s foreign, development and even domestic policy always be important in the decisions that we make objectives of spending on the World Service versus about its services. spending on Trident? 303 BBC World Service26 JANUARY 2011 BBC World Service 304
Mr Hague: Both are absolutely essential for the future politician whom I have met in my time in this House security of this country. told me that one of Britain’s greatest assets is the BBC World Service. For many of them, it was the symbol of Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): This freedom. My big anxiety is that cuts in the World is a black day for more than 650 people who will lose Service are so much heavier than cuts in other parts of their jobs. Among those will be foreign journalists who the Foreign Office that they will leave a very depleted came to this country on work visas at great risk to organisation, and that uniting the World Service with themselves. What will the Secretary of State do to the rest of the BBC will hit rather than improve its ensure that those people are not sent back to danger in impartiality.Will the Foreign Secretary therefore reconsider? their original countries? Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman’s question is a good Mr Hague: There should be no question of that deal more realistic than some that I have been asked in happening. We have well established procedures, over the past half an hour, because he recognises that whatever which the Home Secretary presides, to ensure that Government were in power, there would have to be people do not go back to danger in their home countries. reductions in the World Service. He can gather from That is a separate issue, but if it comes up at all, and if what I outlined earlier that we have sought to limit the there is any danger of those things happening, Ministers impact on the number of countries involved. That is will want to make sure that they do not. why only five separate language services are being closed. We have taken all the factors he outlined into consideration, Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): To limited those closures and provided for the future follow up on that point, the BBC is very concerned development of the World Service, so that it continues about the plight of the foreign-born journalists who to be the respected service of which he rightly speaks. work in this country who will now be made unemployed. Can the Foreign Secretary promise to work with the Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op): BBC and look sympathetically on those journalists who The Foreign Secretary seems not to understand that his might have to return to countries on which they have decisions will topple the BBC from its position as the reported critically? No. 1 in the world, or that the loss of critical mass is significant. Surely he will accept that we cannot simply Mr Hague: Yes, absolutely. To reiterate the answer I restart a service in a particular country or part of the just gave to the hon. Member for Motherwell and world when problems emerge, yet the World Service is Wishaw (Mr Roy), we will look very sympathetically on so important in such countries, and to their diaspora in that situation. this country, at such times, as I have seen in respect of Somalis in the UK. Will he reconsider the damage that Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): At the moment, he is doing with those decisions? the audience for the BBC World Service is more than 240 million people around the world. After these cuts, Mr Hague: I pointed out how the growth of some will the BBC still be the pre-eminent world broadcaster, services is taking place—I mentioned earlier how the putting forward our democratic values in a way that use of the online service in Russia has grown by 121% in other international broadcasters fail to do? the last 12 months. As the hon. Member for Rhondda Mr Hague: Yes. Not only will the BBC be that, but it (Chris Bryant) was saying a moment ago, the services of will have great potential for the future in working with the BBC World Service cannot be preserved in aspic—they other BBC services and in developing some of the new must change—and Opposition Members must understand services that I have outlined today. that.
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Given that two The Foreign Secretary has often spoken of the importance of the greatest strengths of the World Service were to of soft power in diplomacy, particularly with reference speak truth to the powerful and to broadcast hope to to the BBC World Service. Although I regret the loss of the poor and downtrodden, does the Foreign Secretary services in the western Balkans, can he explain how we not see even the slightest irony in the fact that in the can better deploy our soft power resources in that very week when he introduces swingeing cuts to the World vulnerable region to try to secure its peace in future? Service, the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, who is sitting next to him, has given a Mr Hague: My hon. Friend’s question raises a wider second chance to Rupert Murdoch? discussion about the western Balkans. We give a great deal of diplomatic and ministerial attention to that Mr Hague: They are two entirely unrelated issues. region. We have been highly active in ensuring that Does the hon. Gentleman not see the slightest irony in dialogue rather than confrontation has taken place the fact that having left this country on the brink of between Serbia and Kosovo over recent months, and we bankruptcy, Opposition Members now complain that are now doing a great deal of work on the future of we are doing something about it? Bosnia. That is done by British diplomats, supported by the work of British non-governmental organisations, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Everyone in the and British Ministers, working cohesively. House recognises very clearly the uniqueness and importance of the BBC World Service. The Foreign Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I am absolutely certain Secretary mentioned in his presentation today that one that the World Service cannot be preserved in aspic, and reason for the cuts is that the numbers of those who that if Labour had been in power, there would have listen to radio are down, but what consideration has he been cuts in its budget. However, every single foreign given to countries where the only media method is 305 BBC World Service 26 JANUARY 2011 306 radio? Has consideration been given to what the uniquely Counter-terrorism Review British World Service gives to the democratic process in countries such as China, and will he ensure that people in such countries have an opportunity to continue to 1.7 pm listen? The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): With permission, Mr Speaker, I Mr Hague: Yes, of course the Government considered should like to make a statement on the outcome of the that, as did the BBC World Service in drawing up the review of counter-terrorism and security powers. list of what it thinks it is necessary to do. The predominant The review has taken place in the context of a threat availability of the service only on radio is one of the from terrorism that is as serious as we have faced at any factors that the BBC has borne in mind. Burma, which time. In dealing with that threat, it has been the consistent was mentioned earlier, is a case in point. That has been aim of this Government to protect not only the security one of the factors in drawing up the list. Of course, in of our citizens, but the freedoms of us all. those areas where the service is to close, countries are generally provided with a vast range of different media We reviewed counter-terrorism legislation because outlets, including a much more thriving local media too much of it was excessive and unnecessary. At times, than was the case only a decade ago. it gave the impression of criminalising entire communities. Some measures, such as the extraordinary attempt to increase the period of pre-charge detention for terrorist suspects to 90 days, were rightly defeated in Parliament. Others, such as the most draconian aspects of control orders, were defeated in the courts. Those measures undermined public confidence, so I am delighted that the Leader of the Opposition has made it clear that he will support me in preventing the excessive use of state power. I make no apology for the time that this review has taken. It has rightly been deliberate and thorough to ensure that we safeguard both our security and our freedoms. The review has taken account of all sides of the argument. It has received evidence from academic experts and civil society groups, from communities across the country, and from the law enforcement and security agencies. I have, of course, consulted regularly with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, and my noble Friend Lord Macdonald of River Glaven has provided independent oversight of the process. He has had access to all relevant papers and has played an invaluable role in ensuring that all the evidence was given proper consideration. I thank him for his contribution in ensuring that the recommendations of this review are not only fair but seen to be fair. I am laying the review, a summary of the public consultation, and Lord Macdonald’s report, in the House. On pre-charge detention, the Government announced to the House last week that we would not renew the current legislation on extended pre-charge detention. This means that the sunset clause inserted by the last Government has now brought the maximum period of pre-charge detention down to 14 days. The review sets out the detailed considerations leading to this conclusion. The police, prosecutors and the Government are clear that the normal maximum period of pre-charge detention should be 14 days. However, we recognise that in exceptional circumstances only this might need to be temporarily increased to 28 days. We will therefore draw up draft primary legislation to be introduced for parliamentary consideration only in such circumstances. We will publish a draft Bill and propose that this be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. I should make it clear to the House that until it is repealed by the freedom Bill, section 25 of the Terrorism Act 2006 will remain on the statute book allowing the Government to increase the maximum period to 28 days in an emergency, subject to Parliament’s agreement. There has therefore been no gap in our ability to seek Parliament’s consent to increase the period of pre-charge detention should the need arise. 307 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 308
[Mrs Theresa May] conviction and imprisonment will always be our priority— the right place for a terrorist is a prison cell. But where On the use of section 44 stop-and-search powers, I successful prosecution or deportation is not immediately have concluded that the current provisions, which were possible, no responsible Government could allow these found unlawful by the European Court of Human individuals to go freely about their terrorist activities. Rights, represented an unacceptable intrusion on an We are also clear that the current control order individual’s human rights and must be repealed. But the regime is imperfect and has not been as effective as it evidence, particularly in Northern Ireland, has demonstrated should be. We therefore propose to repeal control orders. that where there is a credible threat of an imminent Instead, we will introduce a new package of measures terrorist attack, the absence of such powers might create that is better focused and has more targeted restrictions, a gap in the ability of the police to protect the public. supported by significantly increased resources for We therefore propose to repeal section 44 and to surveillance and other investigative tools. Restrictions replace it with a tightly defined power that would allow that have an impact on an individual’s ability to lead a a senior police officer to make an authorisation of normal life should be the minimum necessary, should much more limited scope and duration for no-suspicion be proportionate and should be clearly justified. The stop-and-search powers to prevent a terrorist attack legislation that we will bring forward will make clearer where there is a specific threat. This targeted measure what restrictions can and cannot be imposed. These will will also prevent the misuse of these powers against be similar to some of the existing powers used in the photographers, which I know was a significant concern civil justice system, for example to prevent sexual offences with the previous regime. and domestic violence. On the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, These “terrorism prevention and investigation measures” we will implement our commitment to prevent the use will have a two-year maximum time limit, which will of these powers by local authorities unless for the clearly demonstrate that these are targeted, temporary purpose of preventing serious crime and unless authorised measures and not to be used simply as a means of by a magistrate. In this context, surveillance—the most parking difficult cases indefinitely. The measures will controversial power—will be authorised for offences have to meet the evidential test of “reasonable belief” that carry a custodial sentence of at least six months. that a person is or has been engaged in terrorism. This is On the wider question of communications data—that higher than the test of “reasonable suspicion” under the is the who, when and where of a communication, but current regime. not the content—the Government intend to ensure that Curfews will be replaced by an overnight residence as far as possible, they are accessed only through the requirement—[Interruption.] revised Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act. We will bring forward specific legislation to this effect in a Mr Speaker: Order. Whatever Members think, on future communications data Bill. either side of the argument, the statement by the Home The Government are committed to tackling the Secretary on this matter must be heard with courtesy promotion of division, hatred and violence in our society. and in silence. We must expose and confront the bigoted ideology of the extremists and prosecute and punish those who step Mrs May: Forcible relocation will be ended and outside the law. The review considered whether counter- replaced with the power to order more tightly defined terrorism legislation should be amended to tackle groups exclusions from particular areas, such as particular who are not currently caught by the law, but who still buildings or streets, but not entire boroughs. Individuals aim to spread their divisive and abhorrent messages. will have greater access to communications, including to After careful consideration, we have concluded that it a mobile phone and to a home computer with internet would be disproportionate to widen counter-terrorism access, subject to certain conditions such as providing legislation to deal with these groups, however distasteful passwords. They will have greater freedom to associate. we find their views. To do so would have serious They will be free to work and study, subject again to consequences for the basic principles of freedom of restrictions necessary to protect the public. We will add expression. We therefore propose to use existing legislation, the crucial power to prevent foreign travel. These measures as well as tackling such groups through our wider work will be imposed by the Home Secretary with prior to counter extremism and promote integration and permission from the High Court required except in the participation in society. most urgent cases. The police will be under a strengthened On the deportation of foreign nationals suspected or legal duty to ensure that the person’s conduct is kept known to have been involved in terrorist activity, the under continual review with a view to bringing a prosecution review found no evidence that this policy was inconsistent and they will be required to inform the Home Secretary with the UK’s human rights obligations and found that about the ongoing prospects for prosecution. it was legitimate and necessary to seek to extend the I have asked the incoming independent reviewer of arrangements to more countries which would include terrorism legislation, David Anderson QC, to pay particular independent verification. As Lord Macdonald says, the attention to these issues in his first report on the new Government’s engagement with other countries on these regime and to make recommendations that he considers issues is likely to have a positive effect on their human appropriate to ensure the new regime is working as rights records. intended. Finally, on control orders the Government have I am also today laying a written ministerial statement concluded that, for the foreseeable future, there is likely outlining the next steps in the work to find a practical to be a small number of people who pose a real threat to way to allow the use of intercept as evidence in court. our security, but who cannot currently be successfully We will repeal the current provisions which permit prosecuted or deported. I want to be clear that prosecution, control orders with restrictions so severe that they would 309 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 310 require the United Kingdom to derogate from the European threats, so we welcome the fact that the review is being convention on human rights. I cannot imagine held. However, it would have been better to do this circumstances in which the Government would seek to alongside a full assessment of the risks and challenges, introduce such draconian measures. through the updating of the Government’s wider counter- So the review I am announcing today will create a terrorism strategy, Contest, which was due in January, more focused and flexible regime. However, in exceptional but which I understand has now been delayed until the circumstances, faced with a very serious terrorist threat summer. that we cannot manage by any other means, additional It is our responsibility as the Opposition to scrutinise measures may be necessary. We want to prepare for this the Government’s proposals in detail and, wherever we possibility while ensuring that such powers are used can, to support the Government on national security only when absolutely necessary. So we will publish, but matters on the basis of the evidence. We will support not introduce, legislation allowing more stringent measures, some of the measures that the Government have announced including curfews and further restrictions on today. We support their approach to deportations with communications, association and movement. These assurances to countries with which we can reach agreement, measures will require an even higher standard of proof which continues the work that we did in government. to be met and would be introduced if in exceptional We note that the Government have decided to continue circumstances they were required to protect the public with the existing regime for proscribing groups that are from the threat of terrorism. We will invite the Opposition engaged in terrorism. That seems to be a sensible approach. to discuss this draft legislation with us on Privy Council Can the Home Secretary tell the House whether that terms. These powers would be enacted only with the means that the Prime Minister has abandoned his agreement of both Houses of Parliament. commitment in the Conservative manifesto to All of these measures will be accompanied by a “ban any organisations which advocate hate or the violent overthrow significant increase in resources for the police and security of our society, such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir”? and intelligence agencies to improve their surveillance We also agree that the use by local authorities of and investigative capabilities. This will underpin the powers under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers effectiveness of the regime and support the gathering of Act 2000 should be restricted. Some of the uses that we evidence admissible in court which could lead to a have seen in practice go far beyond the intention of the successful prosecution. original legislation. However, we will of course scrutinise We will bring forward legislation to introduce the the detail, as we agree that councils still need to be able new regime in the coming weeks. We want to give to take action on issues such as the sale of alcohol or Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise our proposals tobacco to those who are under-age. We also support properly. I am sure the whole House would agree that in sensible changes to stop-and-search powers to prevent the past, too many laws in this area were rushed through their being misused, but it would be helpful if the Home without the opportunity for adequate debate and Secretary could confirm that the legislative changes that consideration. So while Parliament considers that legislation, she is proposing largely reflect the practical changes we will renew the current regime to the end of the year. that the police have already introduced. I am still concerned Many of the other measures I have outlined will be about the implications for Northern Ireland, where, as brought forward in the forthcoming protection of freedom she will know, stop-and-search powers have played an Bill. important role in preventing terrorist attacks. Is she I wish to finish by thanking the police and the security confident, and is the Secretary of State for Northern services for the tremendous work they do to keep our Ireland confident, that the police will have all the powers country safe. The measures I have outlined today will that they need in Northern Ireland under the new help them continue to ensure our safety and security at arrangements? the same time as we restore our civil liberties. They are Let me turn to pre-charge detention. In the last three in keeping with British values and our commitment to years, no case has invoked pre-charge detention for freedom, fairness and the rule of law. They will restore more than 14 days, as the review makes clear. We have public confidence in counter-terrorism legislation and made it clear that if the best police and security evidence it is my hope that they will form the basis of an shows that we can reduce the maximum period for enduring political consensus. I commend this statement pre-charge detention from 28 days with sufficient safeguards, to the House. then we should do so. However, the Home Secretary’s review concludes that there could be future circumstances Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) in which detention for longer than 14 days will be (Lab): I thank the Home Secretary for her statement required, saying that and for advance sight of the review. The horrific attack “there may be rare cases where a longer period of detention may at Moscow airport brings home to us all the terrible be required and those cases may have significant repercussions for damage, loss of life, carnage and fear that terrorist national security.” attacks can cause. The threats that we face from organised The review recommends an emergency option to groups with international connections and lone individuals return to 28 days if necessary. However, the emergency radicalised at home mean that our police and our legislation to do that is still not available in the Library. security services face an incredible task in protecting Indeed, it is still not ready, despite the commitment this country. They match that threat with incredible made by the Immigration Minister last Thursday. On effort. We pay tribute to the work that they do today. Monday, the Home Secretary told the House that she The challenge for democratic Governments in the could extend detention through an order under section 25 face of terrorist threats must be to protect both our of the Terrorism Act 2006, yet her own review concludes national security and our historic freedoms. It is right to that update powers and policies in response to ever-changing “it would be very difficult to extend 28 days” 311 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 312
[Yvette Cooper] are introducing a two-year limit, with a requirement for new evidence before a control order can be renewed. in that way Lord Carlile’s last annual review of control orders said: “in response to or during a specific investigation,” “There is significant and credible intelligence that” owing to the length of time that it would take to go three of the controlees through the House. “continue to present actual or potential, and significant danger to The Home Secretary is putting the House in a very national security and public safety. I agree with the assessment difficult position. The old powers lapsed on Monday; that the control order on each has substantially reduced the her review says that she may need to restore them present danger that exceptionally they still present despite their swiftly to deal with a difficult case; according to her having been subject to a control order for a significant period of time.” review, the order-making power will take too long; and the emergency legislation is not ready. Why did she not Those three individuals have been on control orders for make the emergency legislation available sooner, and more than two years, so will they now have their orders why did she not wait until the emergency legislation was revoked, and what measures will be put in place to keep ready before she let the old powers lapse? As we have the public safe from the threat that Lord Carlile and the seen from the events in Moscow, this is an issue where police clearly believe they pose? we can never predict what is round the corner. What are Secondly, can the Home Secretary tell us whether the the police and the Crown Prosecution Service supposed changes will mean a reduction in the restriction that the to do if a difficult and dangerous case emerges right Government are currently imposing on the remainder now? And what on earth is the Home Office doing of the eight people who are currently on control orders? telling the House on Thursday that the legislation would Thirdly, the Home Secretary has made it clear that she be ready, on Monday that section 25 of the 2006 Act intends to rely more heavily on surveillance and less on would be sufficient, and, in its review today, that neither the measures under control orders. We would support of those things is right? the greater use of surveillance, especially if it were to We know already that the Home Secretary’s policies increase the chance of prosecution, but I am concerned in this area have been a complete shambles, but they are about whether there will be sufficient resources for an also irresponsible. She has identified that emergency increase in surveillance. The Home Secretary has talked provisions are needed, but she has left the police and the about increases in surveillance, but we have not had public in a difficult position by failing to put those clear figures about what exactly that will mean. The provisions in place. Indeed, we also have concerns about Daily Telegraph appears to have been told that there another aspect of the Home Secretary’s approach. She would be a £20 million increase for the police and is relying on being able to rush emergency legislation security services, but we have not been told exactly what through in a hurry to deal with an individual and that means. Can she confirm that the £20 million for difficult case. Is that really a sensible way to proceed, surveillance operations, or whatever the figure is, will with the possibility of Parliament being recalled in a not be ring-fenced, and that it follows a £150 million cut recess in order to discuss the risks in an individual case, in the counter-terrorism budget and billions of pounds yet without prejudicing that case? I would urge her to of cuts for the police? Can she assure the House that she think carefully about that approach, and about whether is confident that the police and the security forces will it would be better to develop more restricted bail conditions have the resources that they need to keep Britain safe to apply beyond 14 days, so that emergency legislation from terror? is less likely to be needed. This has been a chaotic review, delayed, confused, Let me turn to control orders. We all know that this is riven by leaks and political horse-trading, and culminating a difficult area. I think that everybody recognises that in a political fudge. It is a review with serious gaps, no one wants to use control orders, but we accept the which raise serious questions about security and resources, conclusion of the review, which is that there is a continuing and the public and the people who work to keep us safe need to control the activities of terrorists who can be deserve better. The rhetoric of opposition has now neither successfully prosecuted nor deported. We have come up against the reality of government. The review said that we are ready to look at alternatives to control has been muddled in its formation and chaotic in its orders if the evidence supports that. However, the announcement; the Home Secretary must ensure that it proposals that the Home Secretary has set out today are is neither of those when she implements it in practice. not an alternative approach to control orders; they are simply amendments to control orders. Many of the Mrs May: May I start by welcoming the more measured same elements remain: restrictions on movement and approach that the shadow Home Secretary took in the communications; and a review by the court at the early stages of her response to my statement, and her instigation of the Home Secretary, with special stated commitment to ensuring that we work together arrangements in place. I would ask her to explain to the in the interests of national security? I sincerely hope House the difference between an eight-hour curfew and that we shall have cross-party dialogue and agreement an overnight residence requirement. Is not the truth of on matters that are indeed of national interest in ensuring it that what the Government are doing is a political our national security. Sadly, however, in the time that I fudge? The Deputy Prime Minister told the BBC that have been Home Secretary, such a response has not he had abolished control orders. Is not the truth that he been noticeable from the Opposition Benches up to has simply abolished the name? now, but I live in hope that that prospect will change. We need to ask some detailed questions about the The right hon. Lady also supported our proposals on proposed amendments. We would like to be able to deportation with assurances, and our continuing work support sensible changes to control orders, but we need on that with other countries is important. On proscription, answers to some important questions. First, the Government I can assure her that we are actively looking at the issue 313 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 314 of Hizb ut-Tahrir, and we do not resile from our current regime, a curfew of 16 hours is possible, with commitment to ensure that action can be taken on the little or no flexibility. Our proposals for the requirement sort of groups that we have described. She supported for an overnight residency or stay represent a significant what we are doing on the Regulation of Investigatory reduction on that, and offer increased flexibility for the Powers Act 2000, and on local authorities in that regard. individuals involved. We are changing the regime so I am pleased to hear that, although it might have been that there will be a two-year limit on the operation of a nice to hear an apology from her for the use of RIPA by control order on any one individual. The right hon. local authorities under her Government. I believe that Lady asked about people who are currently on control that is one of the things that has damaged people’s orders. As I made clear in my statement, the current confidence in counter-terrorism legislation. control order regime will be extended until the end of The right hon. Lady also referred to section 44, and the year. asked about the changes, which she said were introduced The right hon. Lady said that she supported the by the police last summer. Those changes were not greater use of surveillance, which is part of the package introduced by the police; I changed the guidance to the that I have announced. I welcome her support. I am police following the European Court of Human Rights sure that we are all of one mind in wanting to ensure judgment. It was entirely right that we did that, when a that we can prosecute people and bring them to justice. judgment had been made against us. The police have Obviously, we will make every effort to ensure that been operating under the new guidelines. Having looked people on the new measures are constantly looked at in at the judgment, we believe that it will be possible to regard to bringing prosecutions. She also asked about introduce legislation, whose use will be very tightly resources. There will be new money available to the circumscribed, to cover any potential gap in the powers Security Service and the police over the comprehensive available to the police as a result of the ECHR judgment. spending review period, but it is a well-known practice The right hon. Lady referred to Northern Ireland. I that we do not identify individual sums of money specifically made reference to Northern Ireland in my allocated for Security Service purposes. statement, and I have been discussing these matters Finally, the right hon. Lady made quite a lot of the with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and fact that she thought there was a problem with the the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern process that had been undertaken. I have to say to her Ireland. The Secretary of State has been in touch with that she was a member of a Government who tried to the Chief Constable and with the Minister of Justice in introduce first 90 days pre-charge detention, then 60 days, Northern Ireland to ensure that the measures that we then 42 days before finally settling on 28 days, so I will introduce will indeed provide the capabilities that the take no lessons from her on process. PSNI needs for the difficult work that it does. I should rose— like to pay particular tribute to the PSNI, because we Several hon. Members have seen a significant increase in the number of potential Mr Speaker: Order. This is an extremely important attacks, as well as in the number of terrorist-related matter and a great many right hon. and hon. Members arrests and charges, in Northern Ireland over the past understandably wish to question the Home Secretary year. The PSNI is doing valuable work in keeping the about it. However, there is also important business to people of Northern Ireland safe. follow, and therefore considerable pressure on time. The right hon. Lady talked about pre-charge detention, Brevity in questions and answers alike is therefore and that was when her more measured, conciliatory and imperative, a fine example of which can now be provided consensual approach started to disappear. She made an by Sir Menzies Campbell. awful lot of the issue about whether draft legislation had been laid before the House. The Minister for Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): May I Immigration, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford remind the Home Secretary that it was a Labour Home (Damian Green) did not promise that it would be laid Secretary, Roy Jenkins, who put through emergency before the House last Thursday. He said that we would legislation in relation to terrorism in Northern Ireland be laying draft legislation before the House. It is my in the course of one parliamentary day, demonstrating intention to discuss this draft legislation with the that, if there is consensus, a way can be found to Opposition. As I said in my statement, we intend it to legislate? May I also say to her that, in this finely be the subject of pre-legislative scrutiny, so that, if and balanced package—particularly in relation to control when it is necessary to introduce the emergency legislation, orders—she provides a welcome alternative to, and the House will already have had an opportunity to relief from, what often seemed to be the unbridled scrutinise it. authoritarianism of the previous Government? Does she further understand that she strikes a particularly The right hon. Lady also tried to make quite a lot of welcome note in continuing to pursue the possibility of the gap in the emergency provision that would be available, intercept evidence, and in her emphasis on surveillance, and about the length of time that it would take to get investigation and prosecution? emergency legislation through the House. It is perfectly possible to get emergency legislation through Parliament Mrs May: I thank my right hon. and learned Friend in a day; it has been done by previous Governments. I for his contribution. I am particularly grateful to him might also remind her that this is exactly the same for pointing out, from his experience, that it is perfectly procedure that was adopted by her Government in possible to pass legislation in one parliamentary day, as relation to their proposals for 42 days pre-charge detention. did a Labour Home Secretary. Of course, the crucial On control orders, the measures that we are going to factor then was consensus across the House, and I hope introduce will be significantly different from the control that we shall be able to achieve that again, should it be order regime that the right hon. Lady’s Government necessary to bring forward the emergency legislation to introduced. She talked about a curfew, but under the which I referred in my statement. 315 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 316
[Mrs May] about; and they were also concerned about the use of counter-terrorism legislation by local authorities in respect My right hon. and learned Friend also reminds us of matters that clearly had nothing to do with counter- that is has been important for the coalition Government terrorism, such as dog fouling and whether or not to ensure that we rebalance the needs of our national children had the right to go to a particular school in a security with our civil liberties. I was disappointed that particular catchment area. The package produced today the shadow Home Secretary made no attempt to apologise and the measures introduced to replace control orders for the way in which the previous Labour Government will, I believe, provide the necessary structure and powers infringed people’s civil liberties. to ensure that we are able to prevent and disrupt terrorist activity while at the same time ensuring that we put Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and every effort into prosecuting individuals. As I said, Hillsborough) (Lab): May I sympathise with the Home prosecution must be the preferred option. Secretary in having to balance the protection of the British people with the political embarrassment of the Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): Will the £20 million Deputy Prime Minister? As she has already said, we all of new money, to which the Home Secretary refers, agree that prosecution and conviction would be preferred come from within her existing comprehensive spending in cases where conspiracy to commit terrorist acts, or review allocation or from the reserve? the preparation of such acts, are the issue. Will she therefore consider one more attempt to approach the Mrs May: I have named no figure on the funding to senior judiciary and the legal profession to get agreement be made available. I was very clear in my response to the to change the rules on disclosure and admissibility of shadow Secretary of State that I was not going to name evidence, so that we can use due process through the a figure. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman, as a courts in difficult circumstances such as those of the former Home Secretary, will understand why we are not man known as AM who is being held on a control doing so in respect of the work of the security services. I order? He has declared that he wishes to take his own can say that the Security Service and the police will life, and thereby the life of the British people. The both receive new money. consequence of that would be that we could not prosecute or convict him, because he would be dead. Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): I certainly welcome the Home Secretary’s statement about the increase in Mrs May: I note the points that the right hon. Gentleman surveillance, but she will be as aware as the rest of the has made. On the issue of the admissibility of evidence House that in the last few weeks we have seen a heightened in court, the Government will produce a Green Paper threat level from Irish dissident activity on the mainland later this year—some time in the summer—that will as well as a series of scares about a very serious armed deal with the whole question of the use of closed incident inside this country. If surveillance of known evidence in legal proceedings. I am sure that the right terrorists increases, how will she balance that against hon. Gentleman will look forward to that with great the increased threat from unknown terrorists? interest. On his first point, I merely say that both parties in the coalition Government went into the election Mrs May: We are, of course, very conscious of the absolutely committed to the need to rebalance our severity of the threat that this country faces. That is why national security and our civil liberties. The package I the threat level is currently set at severe, which means have announced today does just that. that a terrorist attack is highly likely. We are constantly undertaking with the security services, the intelligence Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): I agencies and the police painstaking day-by-day work, welcome unreservedly the Home Secretary’s comments which is necessary to ensure that we not only prevent on the reduction of detention without charge, the curbing activity by those already known as terrorists, but that of the misuse of section 44 stop-and-search powers we identify others who might be in the process of trying and, indeed, the reduction in local authority surveillance. to undertake terrorist activity. I pay tribute to the police On the contentious issue of control orders, she knows and the security services, particularly to West Midlands as well as I do that these have acted as a recruiting police, for the operation undertaken before Christmas, sergeant for terrorism. Indeed, as Lord Macdonald said which led to the arrest of 12 individuals and the charging in his report: of nine of them for terrorist-related offences. “The evidence obtained by the Review has plainly demonstrated that the… control order regime acts as an impediment to prosecution.” Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I welcome the Can she therefore tell the House why she did not accept reduction in the detention period and the changes to the proposal put to her of using police bail, which control orders, although we will need more detail on would have given her all the control she currently has—but exactly what they mean. I also welcome the Home within the judicial system rather than in denial of it? Secretary’s attempt to try to develop consensus across the House. I certainly think it right that she should meet Mrs May: I think that my right hon. Friend is aware the shadow Home Secretary—following the robust that there are certain aspects of this on which he and I relationship that seems to be developing, I, for one, take a different view. I welcome his support for a would like to buy a ticket to that meeting. I ask the right number of the measures we have introduced today. On hon. Lady not to forget Parliament or the need to the issue of the impact of control orders, the aspects of engage with the Select Committee on these issues. Will the counter-terrorism legislation that led to most concern she give us an assurance that her prevent strategy will among communities were the 28 days pre-charge detention remain robust, that she will protect the counter-terrorism and the use of section 44 stop-and-search powers. In budget and that she will ensure that reviews of this fact, it was the stop-and-search powers that many people kind—I know that she has more of them planned—will in communities up and down country were most concerned in future be more orderly than the one we have just had? 317 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 318
Mrs May: We could never forget the work of the and fair trial have been significantly hijacked by human Select Committee under the right hon. Gentleman’s rights legislation and judicial interpretation, which have chairmanship—on these and other home affairs matters. taken us significantly in the wrong direction. It is this Government’s intention to do all that is necessary to maintain our national security and to protect the Mrs May: I must confess to my hon. Friend that I public. That involves looking at the budgets that we wondered where his question was leading, but I should make available for counter-terrorism work and the powers add that he did not disappoint me at the end. I will available for that work, as I have set out today. I dispute consider his suggestion, but I think that we have a very the right hon. Gentleman’s comment about the way in good title in the protection of freedom Bill. which this review has been conducted. We are conducting a number of other reviews, but what I think is important Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): While, in cosy for all of them, given the severity of the threat we face comfort and at times with chuckles, we in the House and the importance of the decisions we take, is that we deal with the theory of terrorism, Belfast this morning look at all opportunities, discuss the issues and reach unfortunately experienced the practice of terrorism when decisions that are right for the people of this country. a massive explosive device was found there. As a result, the whole of north Belfast was sealed off from commerce, Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): schooling and everything else, which is the equivalent of I thank the Home Secretary for her statement and I sealing off the whole of the east end of London. welcome the long overdue rebalancing between security and civil liberties that it signalled. Looking ahead, can With that in mind, will the Home Secretary—whose she explain how the Government’s work on communications statement I welcome—tell us whether the repeal of data will impact on the agencies’ ability to access it and section 44 and its replacement with a more tightly to intercept communications where necessary? defined power for police officers will be flexible enough to allow the police to deal with specific threats that have Mrs May: My hon. Friend has raised an important an impact on a border with a 200-mile radius? We do issue. This is just one part of our ongoing work to not want them to be confined to dealing with such ensure that the Government provide for the security tightly specific threats that they are prevented from and intelligence agencies and the police the necessary policing Northern Ireland properly, and protecting it powers and tools that they need to keep us safe. We from a more generalised dissident republican threat. made it absolutely clear in the strategic defence and With regard to the new money— security review that we will introduce a programme to preserve the ability of the security, intelligence and law Mr Speaker: Order. I very much want to hear what enforcement agencies to obtain communications data the hon. Gentleman has to say, but I think that one and to intercept communications within the appropriate question is enough. On days such as this, a great many legal framework. That work is ongoing; we are ensuring Members wish to contribute. that that capability is retained.
Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): I welcome Mrs May: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the the reduction of the period of detention from 28 to issue of the latest attempted terrorist attack in Northern 14 days—although I wish it were without the reserve Ireland. As he says, it involved a significant explosive powers announced last week and again today—but is device, and the action that had to be taken disrupted a the Home Secretary aware that her statement on control significant number of people in Belfast. I am sure that orders will be very disappointing to many of us? It all of us, on both sides of the House, are absolutely would be far better if the due process of law—ordinary determined that people who perpetrate such acts should law—were used in the fight against terrorism. No one in not be allowed to succeed. this House underestimates for one moment the terrorist Once again, I pay tribute to the work of the PSNI. danger, but we should be very careful about making We have been engaged in close discussions with the intrusions into civil liberties—hence the disappointment Northern Ireland Office—which, as I have said, has on control orders. itself been engaged in discussions with the PSNI and the Justice Minister—about the operation of the section 44 Mrs May: It has been clear from the interventions in replacement, if I may so describe the new power that response to my statement that there are differing views will be available. I am confident that that new power on this issue across the House. We all want to see will give the PSNI the capabilities that it requires, and I terrorists investigated, prosecuted and brought to judgment. understand that later this week the Northern Ireland As I said, the best place for a terrorist is in a prison cell. Office and the PSNI will discuss the protocols that will We want to make every effort to ensure that the processes apply. of investigation and prosecution can be successful, but there is a small number of cases where prosecution has Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): As a member not been possible and deportation is not possible, so the of the Home Affairs Committee who has been involved Government need to act in order to protect the public. in the saga of scrutinising the proposals for 14 days, 28 days, 60 days and 90 days as periods of pre-trial Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): There is no freedom detention, I commend the approach taken by my right without security, so would the Home Secretary consider hon. Friend. May I urge her to be vigorous in her changing the proposed Bill’s title from the protection of engagement with foreign Governments in order to facilitate freedom Bill to the security and freedom Bill? The Lord the deportation of terrorist suspects in appropriate Chief Justice and many others have highlighted the cases, thus reducing both the burden on the security problem that the principles of habeas corpus, due process services and the threat to citizens of this country? 319 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 320
Mrs May: My hon. Friend has made an extremely them to lead as normal a life as possible commensurate valid point. The Government will indeed be rigorous in with the protection of the public. That, I believe, is the their efforts to increase the number of countries with balance that we have achieved in these new measures. which we have agreements about the deportation of terrorists, so that we are able to deport them rather than Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con): I welcome their remaining in the United Kingdom. the Home Secretary’s announcement about the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. No longer will local Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): As the Minister authorities be able to spy on law-abiding residents who responsible, with the then Home Secretary, for taking may commit heinous crimes such as putting out their the control orders legislation through the House, may I dustbins or taking their children to school. say that I deeply resent the implication by some Government Members that we welcomed the opportunity to incarcerate Mrs May: That is an extremely valid point. I believe people without trial? Control orders were always an that local authorities’ misuse of RIPA powers has done imperfect solution to an unprecedented terror threat. much to reduce the public’s confidence in counter-terrorism Recently, in the High Court, Mr Justice Wilkie said legislation, and that today’s move is important for that of the subject of a control order that he had renewed: reason. “He was and remains prepared to be a martyr in an attack designed to take many lives. He remains highly trained, security Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Is the Home conscious and committed.” Secretary entirely comfortable with the notion that Does the Home Secretary feel personally confident that individuals are held in British prisons without due the measures that she is introducing will protect the process before being deported to countries that have not British people from people like that? signed international conventions such as the United Nations convention against torture, where they may Mrs May: I have announced those measures precisely face an abuse of their own human rights? Will she because we recognise the need to take action against a guarantee that in future no one will be deported to a small number of people of the sort described by the country that has not signed the convention against right hon. Lady whom it has not been possible to torture? prosecute or deport. I am confident that our measures will do the job that is necessary, preventing Mrs May: The whole point of the discussions that we and disrupting terrorist activity and ensuring that we have with countries in order to be able to deport people can keep people safe. is to ensure that those people will not suffer from abuses of their human rights when they are returned to those Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): There is much countries. I refer the hon. Gentleman to what my noble to welcome in the statement, which goes a long way Friend Lord Macdonald said in his report on the review. towards reversing the worst infringements of civil liberties As I said in my statement, he said that the Government’s by the last Government, but when it comes to control engagement with other countries on these issues was orders, the details do matter. I am pleased to note the likely to have a positive effect on their human rights increased focus on prosecution, the justice system and records. the police, but can the Home Secretary confirm that when the legislation is published, we shall see a continued move away from a murky, spooky world and towards a Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): I can inform legal and just world? the House—at the risk of provoking my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash)—that I led the delegation Mrs May: My hon. Friend is obviously particularly from the European Parliament that first briefed the concerned about the civil liberties aspects of the proposals. United States Congress on British and European I believe that the package that I have announced contains involvement in extraordinary rendition, at a time when a series of measures that will enable us to protect the Labour Members were maintaining in the House the public and maintain our national security, while at the fiction that our Government were not involved. Against same time reducing our civil liberties—[Interruption.]. that background, my right hon. Friend’s statement is I mean that the measures will enable us to increase our very important in rebalancing civil rights in this country. civil liberties and reduce infringement of them. I am Will she comment on the suggestions that we should sorry: I was thinking about my hon. Friend’s reference consider introducing much more post-charge questioning to a “murky, spooky world”. and the use of intercept evidence? Let me simply say to my hon. Friend that it is necessary for our security services to be able to operate. Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the The security services and the intelligence agencies do a work that he did in the European Parliament. I know valuable job for us in this country, and, by definition, that he has taken an interest in human rights matters what a security service does must remain secret. there, and that he continues to take an interest in them in the House. Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): In the context Today I laid before the House a written statement of civil liberties, which does the Home Secretary consider indicating that further work would be undertaken to to be more draconian, a control order or 24-hour investigate the possibility of the use of intercept evidence. round-the-clock surveillance? I am pleased to say that we have been able to continue the valuable work of the Privy Council group of which Mrs May: There is a significant difference between the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan telling people that they cannot do something and watching Beith)—together with a number of Members of the people while they are doing certain things, while enabling House of Lords—is a distinguished member. 321 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 322
Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Does the Home introduces, but she has described them as very tightly Secretary accept that those of us who signed section 44 circumscribed. Is she not concerned that she may tie the orders and control orders did so for the purpose of hands of the PSNI? preventing terrorism? Does she envisage any alterations in the regime governing the—I believe—eight individuals Mrs May: The right hon. Gentleman’s description of who are currently subject to control orders pending the the PSNI’s use of section 44 is accurate, because the changes that she is to introduce, and how does she PSNI used it very carefully—more carefully than police expect to deal with the proposed extension of the pre-charge forces on the mainland. He rightly says that, as a result, detention period from 14 to 28 days when Parliament is terrorist attacks were disrupted and prevented. We have not sitting? been very careful in discussions, and it has been of particular concern to ensure that the power that we are Mrs May: First, I recognise that individual Ministers proposing will be usable by the PSNI and will enable it have to take difficult decisions on the use of these to continue to do what it needs to prevent terrorist powers. I am sure that all Ministers take those decisions attacks in Northern Ireland. with the right intentions, including that of maintaining the safety of the public. The current regime will continue Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I commend until the end of the year, as I have made clear, and the the Home Secretary on the important steps that she has measures necessary to continue that regime will be taken towards reversing the draconian drift under the brought before both Houses of Parliament before 10 March, previous Government. I am disappointed that the coalition the date on which the legislation on that falls. The has not scrapped control orders altogether, but even package that we have put together not only does exactly more important is the need to reverse the collapse in what the right hon. Gentleman wanted to do and what I counter-terrorism convictions of 90% in the past four want to do, which is to protect the public, but very years. May I just ask about the written statement on importantly it ensures that we are maintaining our civil intercept evidence? Are the Government now committed liberties and rolling back some of the infringements of to lifting the ban? Has the question now changed from them. “if” to “when and how”?
Mr Hanson: What if the House is in recess? Mrs May: The Government have always had a [Interruption.] commitment, including in the coalition agreement, to examine the possibility of using intercept material as evidence. It is on that basis that we have asked that Mrs May: I think that the Whip, the hon. Member further work be done to examine a number of issues for Ealing North (Stephen Pound), has told the right associated with practicality, affordability and how an hon. Gentleman what he intends to do with the recess. intercept-as-evidence regime could operate. It is a mistake If Parliament is in recess, it is perfectly possible that it for anybody in this House to think that using intercept can be recalled to bring in emergency measures. The as evidence is somehow the silver bullet that will take right hon. Gentleman knew the answer to that question away all our other issues and requirements. Work has before he asked it. been done to examine existing cases and ask whether a prosecution would have been made possible had intercept Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): The as evidence been available. I believe that I am right in Home Secretary’s statement will be welcomed by all saying that in all cases—although I hesitate in saying those who value fundamental British rights and the “all”because I cannot remember the exact numbers—such defence of our national security. Can she confirm that evidence would not have made that possible. That is emergency powers will not be used as a back-door ruse certainly true of most cases. to reinstate some of Labour’s human rights-busting counter-terrorism legislation? This Government believe Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I welcome in the judicial process and will seek to prosecute alleged the direction taken by the Home Secretary. It is an terrorists, not to detain them indefinitely and arbitrarily. indictment of the previous Government that it has taken a Tory-led Government to restore at least some of Mrs May: On the indefinite detention of people, I our civil liberties, albeit in a very halting way. I want to can confirm to my hon. Friend that we will be introducing take her back to her decision not to use this opportunity a two-year limit in the new measures. It will then be to bring back control orders within the normal judicial possible to put a new measure in place if it has been process as a form of police bail. Does the failure to do clear that somebody has been undertaking further terrorist that not simply mean that we still have control orders, activity, but that two-year limit is an important power albeit by another name? that we will be ensuring is on the statute book. Mrs May: No, we do not. We are repealing control Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): orders and introducing a new set of measures that have Further to the question asked by the hon. Member for more tightly targeted restrictions on individuals and North Antrim (Ian Paisley), may I press the Home that, in some areas, significantly increase the flexibility Secretary further on section 44? Whatever the problems for those individuals to work and study and give them in Great Britain, there is no question in my mind but some access to communications. May I correct the hon. that section 44 has saved lives in Northern Ireland. The Lady on one point? It is the coalition Government who power has been used proportionately by the Police have brought this package of proposals before the House Service of Northern Ireland, in tandem with the powers today and both parties in the coalition were clear in the under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, run-up to the election and following it that action to uncover and disrupt activity by terrorists. I will want needed to be taken to rebalance national security and to look, as others will, at the detailed proposals that she civil liberties. 323 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 324
Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): There is much to Mrs May: Yes, there are significant differences between welcome in my right hon. Friend’s statement, but thousands the past and present situations. The curfews under the of people around the world are subject to arbitrary control order regime allow 16 hours of detention in the internment by Executive fiat and they should look to home. The overnight residence requirement will replace Britain as a beacon of freedom. What consideration has the curfews and there will be a requirement for people she made of the impact on this nation’s voice for liberty to stay normally in their nominated home overnight. and justice arising from this lost opportunity to place Most people would consider a normal overnight residence control orders where they should be: fully within the to be eight to 10 hours, but we are not suggesting that criminal justice system? we should put a figure in the legislation. That would be a matter for the courts to decide. There is a significant Mrs May: I think that people will look at what the difference between the proposal we are making and the Government have done today and see a responsible regime that the previous Government introduced. Government who have recognised the need to ensure that the protection of the public and national security is Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): our priority while retaining and strengthening those Just like the “Grand Old Duchess of York”, the right freedoms and civil liberties that we have valued over the hon. Lady marched the Liberal Democrats up a hill last centuries. May and has brought them back down again this week. On the specific issue of what she now calls the overnight Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): residence requirement, does she not accept that if something The debate at the heart of government on these issues acts like a curfew, looks like a curfew and sounds like a has been based on the wrong premise that it is the laws curfew, it is a curfew? put in place by the previous Government to protect the Mrs May: No, I have just explained the differences public against terrorism that pose a threat to our liberties. between the curfew and the overnight residence requirement. The threat to our liberties comes from those who want to kill innocent people. Today’s announcement waters Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): May I down the control that we have over terrorist suspects, congratulate the Home Secretary on the decision to increases the risk that we would lose control over those allow Lord Macdonald to oversee and approve the suspects, and increases costs and pressures on our hard- process for the review? The Labour party has complained pressed security services. Does the Home Secretary about the process. Does my right hon. Friend recall the accept that, if one of the people currently subject to previous Government making provision for such a review those restrictions is found to be engaged in a terrorist to have independent oversight? act, the public will rightly look back on this announcement as both dangerous and complacent? Mrs May: No, I do not recall the previous Government ever doing something like that—[HON.MEMBERS: “Lord Mrs May: I reject the right hon. Gentleman’s description Carlile!”] Opposition Members mention Lord Carlile, of the situation and of the balance between national but he did not undertake a review of this sort. He was security and civil liberties. Of course it is the terrorists the independent reviewer of counter-terrorism legislation who pose a threat to our civil liberties and to life and and he continued in that role. May I take this opportunity limb, and it is right that the Government do everything to pay tribute to the work that he has done for a number they can to ensure that they protect the public against of years in that role? He will be replaced in it by David that terrorist threat, but if legislation infringes people’s Anderson, QC next month. The previous Government civil liberties and by its very operation reduces the did not produce such a review or enable Parliament to public’s confidence in counter-terrorism legislation, that have a discussion or debate such as that we will have on also has an impact. It is right that this Government the counter-terrorism legislation. I am pleased to say should examine the measures that the previous Government that my noble Friend Lord Macdonald has said that he introduced—which before the election both coalition found the process of the review to be “sound” and parties felt had gone too far in a number of areas and, “The evidence base for the Review’s conclusions” on control orders, the courts had found were too to be “extensive”. draconian—and deal with them as we are today, which will continue to protect the public. Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): The truth is that the vast majority of British people will be very concerned Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I remind the House that the control orders regime is being watered down as that I had a former profession as a barrister for the a result of party political considerations and not as a Attorney-General. The Home Secretary has said that result of national security considerations. If any of the the curfew element of the control order will be replaced people involved are caught using the new freedoms that by— the Home Secretary is going to give them and using the mobile phones and computers that she is going to allow Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Surely the hon. them to have to plot terrorist activities, to encourage Gentleman does not need to read his question if he is a other people to engage in terrorist activities, to radicalise barrister. people or to promote extremism, will she be prepared to resign? Guy Opperman: Thank you; any time you want to get Mrs May: The hon. Gentleman clearly does not it going, you can. appreciate the purpose of what is being done and the The Home Secretary has said that this will be replaced Government’s intention. The answer to his question is by an overnight residence provision. Could she tell us that if there is evidence that an individual has been more about that? Will there be significant differences engaging in terrorist activity, they will be charged and between the past and present situations? prosecuted. 325 Counter-terrorism Review26 JANUARY 2011 Counter-terrorism Review 326
Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): May I civil liberties. Such a scheme could better balance the priorities of congratulate the Home Secretary on establishing a wholly prosecution and public protection.” new and more balanced counter-terrorist regime that All parties will see that. restores civil liberties lost under the previous Labour Government but that still gives police the power they need to keep us safe in this country? Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): The Home Secretary has said that she will publish two separate pieces of Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend. I think that the draft primary legislation. They will sit around and we vast majority of the public will see that the Government will be able to chat about them, but she will not introduce have done exactly what we said we would do when we them until there is suddenly some specific reason—such came into power, which is to restore the balance between as a court case—for her to do so. We will then suddenly national security and civil liberties. That will be welcomed. have to pass the legislation in one day. Surely it would make far more sense to go through the legislative process Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): What will happen so that we can table amendments and consider the if, after two years of the Home Secretary’s new form of legislation properly without the burden of the emergency control order, an individual has not committed any affecting the debate. Would that not avoid the danger terrorist actions and cannot be deported or prosecuted that the courts might decide that there was no proper but we know that they still represent a threat? What will opportunity for a free and fair trial given that Parliament happen then? had already effectively decided that the people involved were guilty? Mrs May: As I have made clear, there is a two-year limit on the new measures. It will be possible, if further Mrs May: We have proposed that the emergency evidence of terrorist activity is found, to impose a legislation on 28 days’ pre-charge detention should be further measure. The idea that, as the previous Government subject to pre-legislative scrutiny so that there is an thought, the Government can under some measure have opportunity for it to be considered, as I have made people parked indefinitely was a problem identified clear. If the hon. Gentleman is so concerned about the with the previous control order regime, and one of the process that we propose, why did he support it when his issues that we have addressed. Government introduced it for the 42 days’ pre-charge detention? Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Although I appreciate that the Home Secretary might be a little Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): It constrained in what she can say, will she nevertheless was all going so well. There we were, happily dismantling give an indication of the reactions she has had from the Labour’s anti-civil libertarian agenda, when along came police and security services to the content of her statement this review. With respect to the right hon. Lady, she has today? simply done “a Labour” on control orders. Her proposals seem and feel just like the Labour control orders. At Mrs May: I am certainly happy to inform the House what point did she abandon her plans to get rid of that I have had a positive reaction to the statement, in control orders entirely and come up with control orders that the director general of the Security Service has told No. 2? me that he considers that the changes provide an acceptable balance between the needs of security and of civil liberties and that the overall package mitigates risks. As Mrs May: The commitment was always to review we said in the review: control orders. We were always absolutely clear that “an approach that scrapped control orders and introduced more national security took priority, but we needed to rebalance precisely focused and targeted restrictions, supported by increased civil liberties and national security. I believe that that is covert investigative resources, would mitigate risk while increasing what this package does. 327 26 JANUARY 2011 328
Point of Order Carers and Employment Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order 2.17 pm No. 23) Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Home 2.19 pm Secretary did not answer the question about the level of Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I beg to move, resources that will be given to the security services and That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision for the police, although that information is in The Daily carers’ rights to flexible working; and for connected purposes. Telegraph today. We recognise that some information will need to be kept secret, but this information is Carers play a vital role in our society. Not only do directly relevant to the effectiveness of the new regime they care for friends, family and others and provide proposed by the Home Secretary. Will you use your support that would otherwise be provided by the state, offices to look further into why the House is not being but many—3 million—also work either full or part-time. given information that seems to be being given to the A further 1.3 million carers of working age are not in newspapers? paid employment—some out of choice. Many of those carers want to work but recognise that they would have Mr Speaker: It is important that we should not to juggle work with their caring responsibilities. Financial continue the debate subsequent to the statement. I have concerns are by no means the only problem that carers let the statement run relatively long because it is an face, but balancing care and work is clearly a significant extremely important matter and the Front-Bench challenge. A survey of 3,000 Parkinson’s carers showed contributions were, understandably, a bit longer than that a quarter of them were worse off financially since normal. On this occasion, all that I want to say is that taking on a caring role, with 14% having had to leave information about the policy of the Government should work and 8% having reduced their work since starting without exception be communicated first to the House. caring. If for some reason that is not the case—the right hon. The Work and Families Act 2006 gave carers significant Lady has registered her concern that that might be rights to request flexible working, but my Bill would so—that concern will have been heard. That was a point simplify the definition and make legislation easier for of order and it is open to the Home Secretary to carers and employers to apply. In bringing forward respond to it if she wants, but she is under no obligation the Bill, I do not criticise that legislation, which was to do so as she has made a full statement. in many ways groundbreaking and was a significant step forward; rather, I hope to build on and improve it. The Secretary of State for the Home Department The coalition agreement between my party and the (Mrs Theresa May) indicated dissent. Conservatives states that the Government will “extend the right to request flexible working to all employees, Mr Speaker: The Home Secretary does not wish to consulting with business on how best to do so.” do so. So be it. I warmly welcome that commitment and I shall set out some of the areas it would be helpful for the Government BILL PRESENTED to consider in relation to carers. Flexible working is a goal we should be achieving for all workers, but my Bill focuses on the particular circumstances of carers. EDUCATION BILL Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Currently, the definition of carers provides a long list of those eligible to request flexible working, including Secretary Michael Gove, supported by the Prime those caring for a spouse, for a partner with whom they Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of live, for a civil partner or for a relative. Relatives include the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Sarah Teather, parents, parents-in-law, adult children, adopted adult Mr Nick Gibb, Mr David Willetts and Mr John Hayes, children, siblings, including siblings-in-law, uncles, aunts, presented a Bill to make provision about education, grandparents and step-relatives. Also eligible are those childcare, apprenticeships and training; to make provision caring for and living at the same address as the adult in about schools and the school workforce, institutions need of care. Despite that extensive definition, certain within the further education sector and Academies; to groups of carers are still excluded, such as those caring abolish the General Teaching Council for England, the for people to whom they are not closely related or who Training and Development Agency for Schools, the do not live in the same accommodation, which could School Support Staff Negotiating Body, the Qualifications amount to as many as 75,000 carers nationwide. We and Curriculum Development Agency and the Young often talk about numbers, but let me put that figure into People’s Learning Agency for England; to make provision context. Carers UK has told me about a man who cares about the Office of Qualifications and Examinations for his ex-wife and is not covered by the definition and Regulation and the Chief Executive of Skills Funding; about a single man who has fallen out with his family to make provision about student loans and fees; and for and is cared for by a friend who does not live at the connected purposes. same property and, again, is not covered by the definition. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time Those are real people who have experienced difficulties tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 137) with explanatory in making requests and fulfilling their work and care notes (Bill 137-EN). responsibilities because of the definition, which, although broad and significant, excludes many people. During the consultation on the regulations in 2006, some groups said that the burden would be too onerous and argued for a more prescriptive definition, but many 329 Carers and Employment26 JANUARY 2011 Carers and Employment 330 employers said that the definition was overly complex 150,000 people are in paid employment and have unpaid and that they wanted something simpler, even if that caring responsibilities. Some 60% of male carers and meant a broader definition or, indeed, no definition at 32% of female carers in Wales combine caring with all. A 2006 survey of four major employers found that full-time employment, and 6% of male carers and 27% of they operated lighter-touch policies than required under female carers combine caring with part-time employment. the regulations and that none of them asked for any There are examples of good practice, however: Carers information about the relationship of the carer to the Wales has highlighted the carers’ policies produced by person being cared for. The most important thing for Cardiff council and the Velindre NHS trust. Carers any employer is the impact that the policy has on their Wales has also worked with other local authorities and work, whereas the definition of who is being provided the Welsh Assembly Government on developing policies with care is of little concern to them. in support of caring. Answers to parliamentary questions in September The final point that my Bill would address is the fact 2008 on the acceptance of requests for flexible working that employees currently have to wait six months until did not include figures for carers, but they showed that they can request flexible working, although many employers employers are increasingly responsive to the needs of provide these rights from day one. People with significant those who wish to work flexibly, with 78% of requests caring responsibilities need to work flexibly from when being accepted. Not all employers will be able to they start and the regulations might make it difficult for accommodate requests, but those who do often recognise them to find a job that accommodates their caring the importance of supporting their employees. It is key responsibilities. The Employers for Carers leadership that when a request is made, an employer should reject group has suggested that the Government should consider it only where there is a clear business reason to do so, that as part of their consultation on flexible working. that they must explain their reason to the employee and Many employers would welcome that being settled when that there should be an appeals process. Many employers an employee first starts working for them. I hope that have found that rather than being a burden, flexible the Government will seriously consider the issue of working can help them to extend working hours and day-one rights. As was stated in the EHRC report, the spread out work. current regulations do nothing In 2009, the Equality and Human Rights Commission “to reach people who are unemployed, moving in and out of published a report, “Working Better”, which recommended insecure employment, or returning to work after a career break.” changes to the regulations on flexible working. Its research The Bill is about cutting the red tape associated with found that awareness of those rights was low and that requests for flexible working and simplifying the process. they were still widely perceived as being the preserve of It is about identifying the many examples of good mothers with young children. For those who care, there practice in large and small workplaces across the UK are additional barriers to flexible working, as is borne and about ensuring that this good practice is supported out by the figures in the 2005 report “Ordinary lives: and emulated by all employers. One million carers give Disabled children and their families”, which found that up work to care, and there is a real need to encourage only 16% of the mothers of disabled children are able to good practice on flexible working to ensure that carers work compared with more than 60% of mothers generally. can stay in work. My hope and aim in bringing forward I hope that the Bill will also address the issue that this Bill, with the help of Carers UK and Carers Wales, many carers face of their commitments changing, is that the Government will consider these matters very sometimes quite rapidly, in relation to the kind of care carefully as part of their consultation and that they will they deliver. I recently spoke to a man whose wife had introduce rules that will ensure comprehensive rights to been diagnosed with motor neurone disease. His experience flexible working for carers in the many different situations with his employers was very positive: when she first in which carers find themselves. became ill, he was able to fit his hours around hospital Question put and agreed to. visits, but he then had to reduce his hours to a nine-hour week for three months before asking for a care break of Ordered, 12 months which was later extended to 15 months as his That Mr Mark Williams, Dr Hywel Francis, Jonathan wife’s condition deteriorated. Not long after, she died. Edwards, Lorely Burt, Annette Brooke, Jessica Morden, His company told him that although they could not Roger Williams, Tony Baldry, Laura Sandys, Malcolm guarantee to hold his job open, he could return at the Wicks and Albert Owen present the Bill. same grade and not lose out. It is worth quoting what Mark Williams accordingly presented the Bill. he told me: “This removed so much strain for me, as I knew I had a future Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on to look forward to after my wife had died and I would not Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 36). suddenly have to start job hunting the day after.” He has now devoted himself to the work of the Motor Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Neurone Disease Association and chairs a local branch On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You will of MND. He reports that, regrettably, many people in recall that at lunchtime the Prime Minister indicated similar positions are not so fortunate as he was. There is that the hon. Member for Belfast West (Mr Adams) had a real need to ensure that employers recognise the accepted an office of the Crown. However, it is our importance of this policy and that examples of good understanding from press reports coming out of Belfast practice can be extended. that Sinn Fein are denying this. Clearly, this is a matter Much of the responsibility for carers’ issues in Wales that will continue to trouble the House for some time. is rightly devolved to the National Assembly Government, Has the Speaker’s Office received notification from the but the issue of flexible working remains with the Government that Mr Adams has indeed accepted a Government in Westminster. In Wales, more than paid office of the Crown? 331 26 JANUARY 2011 332
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Ihaveno European Union Bill knowledge of the matter. If and when the Speaker receives notification from the Treasury, he will cause it [4TH ALLOCATED DAY] to be included in the Votes and Proceedings of the House. That is as much as I can do to help the hon. [Relevant document: The Fifteenth Report from the European Gentleman on his point of order. Scrutiny Committee, The EU Bill: Restrictions on Treaties and Decisions relating to the EU, HC 682.] Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Further to Further considered in Committee that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand that a Member must apply for an office of profit. If [DAWN PRIMAROLO in the Chair] there is any departure from that procedure, may we have a statement to the House? Will the Speaker inform the House of any departure from the accepted conventions, Clause 7 traditions and procedures of the House so that we are clear about the circumstances in which such a bizarre DECISIONS REQUIRING APPROVAL BY ACT resignation is happening? 2.33 pm Madam Deputy Speaker: Although I appreciate that Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): I beg to move the hon. Gentleman has a great interest in the matter amendment 24, in clause 7, page 6, line 7, at end and that other Members may well have the same interest, insert— it is not a point of order for me or for Mr. Speaker. If notification is received, the Speaker would place it in ‘(e) a decision under Article 218(8) of TFEU for the the Votes and Proceedings of the House. That is as much accession of the European Union to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and as I can help the hon. Gentleman with the matter. Fundamental Freedoms in accordance with Article 6(2) of TEU.’. Business without Debate The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo): With this it will be convenient to EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENT discuss the following: Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Amendment 45, page 6, line 25, at end insert— Order No. 119(11)), ‘(da) a decision implemented through the solidarity clause under Article 222 that obliges the United Kingdom CROSS-BORDER ENFORCEMENT to provide assistance to another Member State which That this House takes note of European Union Document is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a No. 7984/08 and Addenda 1 and 2, Unnumbered Explanatory natural or man-made disaster.’. Memorandum dated 13 September 2010 and Unnumbered Amendment 25, in clause 10, page 8, line 34, leave out Supplementary Explanatory Memorandum dated 21 December subsection (2). 2010, submitted by the Department for Transport, relating to facilitating cross-border enforcement in the field of road safety; and notes that the Government is deciding whether or not to opt Chris Heaton-Harris: It is a pleasure to come back for in to this Directive under the terms of Protocol 21 of the Treaty a third day of excitement this week, talking about on the Functioning of the European Union on the position of the Europe. I thought that when I left the European Parliament, United Kingdom in respect of the area of Freedom, Security and I might be able to ditch that part of my life and move on Justice.—(Mike Penning.) to something interesting. It seems to wear one down, Question agreed to. like a terrible weight around one’s neck. I want to see whether I can tidy up a few parts of the Bill which, I believe, could be helped. Currently the European Union is not party to the European convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms, the ECHR. The Lisbon treaty, however, introduced what is now article 6(2) of the treaty on the European Union, which provides that the EU will accede to the ECHR. This accession agreement—in effect a treaty between the EU and the states party to the ECHR—is being negotiated. Article 218(8) of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union provides that once negotiated, the accession agreement must be concluded, for the EU’s part, by unanimity in the Council. The same article states that after adoption by the Council, the EU decision concluding the agreement must also be “approved by the Member States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements” before it can come into force. Under current UK law, this approval may require an Act of Parliament. Clause 10, however, where this matter currently resides, requires only a resolution of approval 333 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 334 in each House. Indeed, the definition of parliamentary their duration, the precise financial contribution by the approval in clause 10(3) does not seem well suited to the EU—essentially by us—and the detailed rules for approval of a decision adopted by the Council under implementation. Furthermore, article 349 provides that article 218(8), because the resolution of approval specified the Council can adopt legislative measures on how EU concerns approval of a draft decision. treaties apply to areas known in wonderful EU parlance Until the article 218(8) TFEU conclusion has come as the outermost regions. The way in which such specific into force, the EU cannot accede to the ECHR. This is a decisions are dealt with in the Bill would be a retrograde complicated treaty between the EU and the ECHR and step for democratic control, hence my amendment. warrants a great deal of scrutiny. It will have a number of indirect effects on the United Kingdom. Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton- Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I, too, wish Harris) in the arguments that he has adduced. Since the we could be free of the European Union, but that is a Maastricht treaty, I have been gravely concerned about debate for another day. Does my hon. Friend agree that, the operation of co-decision, and that is the best part of given where we are on prisoners’ voting rights, as well as 20 years ago. The bottom line is that the situation has the growth of rights under the ECHR and the controversy become increasingly difficult and unacceptable. The surrounding that, we need to ensure maximum European Parliament, which is not a real Parliament at parliamentary scrutiny of decisions such as the one that all—I see the Minister sighing. He cannot understand he is describing? that the difference in the manner in which the European Parliament is elected, the difference in its procedures, the extent to which it holds Ministers to account, the Chris Heaton-Harris: Indeed. I know that there is to intrusion of the process of proportional representation be a Backbench Business Committee debate on the and the manner in which that operates, and many other matter in the not-too-distant future, in which I hope aspects of the institutional difficulties and the democratic that Members across the House can voice their concerns deficit that exists in the EU, which are all part and about that ruling. parcel of the necessity to retain control in the hands of I return to the proposal to move one part of the Bill the national Parliaments. Unfortunately, for all the reasons from clause 10 to clause 7. I was speaking about the given by my hon. Friend, in relation to these specific indirect effects on the United Kingdom that the accession matters there is an extension of this strange creature of the EU to the EHCR might have. When the accession which used to be called co-decision, but which now, in takes place, the EU will be able to be taken to the typical Eurospeak, has become the ordinary legislative European Court of Human Rights, which will undoubtedly procedure. It is not ordinary at all, it is quite extraordinary, lead to more cases, more cost and impact and, most and it is not a legislative procedure in the sense in which importantly, more jurisprudence on EU law. we are legislating in this House. I am seeking not to upgrade the requirement for scrutiny, but to maintain the present level. Furthermore, The Temporary Chairman (Martin Caton): Order. I am concerned that in clauses 6 and 7, a few article 48(7) May I ask which amendment the hon. Gentleman is ratchet decisions are not caught by the Bill. Such decisions speaking to? would be those applying to the EU’s ordinary legislative procedure where the EU treaties currently require a Mr Cash: I am speaking about the general principle special legislative procedure, and the existing special relating to the question of co-decision in the context of legislative procedure does not require unanimity in the the amendments— Council. In other words, while a switch in EU legislative procedure would be taking place, it would not involve The Temporary Chairman: Order. The hon. Gentleman abolition of a veto because a veto did not exist in the knows that when we are dealing with amendments, we first place. However, the EU’s ordinary legislative procedure deal with the amendments, not with general principles. entails the European Parliament having co-decision If he could come on to the amendments in the group, I rights with the Council. It can table amendments to a would be grateful. proposed law and veto the Council’s desired law. In general, a switch to the ordinary legislative procedure Mr Cash: I am dealing specifically with amendment 24, would take EU decision making further out of the moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry, hands of national Governments and give greater power and supporting his arguments. My amendments are, in to a supranational institution. general terms, supportable in accordance with the arguments The article 48(7) ratchet clauses not covered by the I have set out, and I have no further comments to make Bill would confer new co-decision rights on the European on them at the moment. Parliament in a few areas of EU law that I shall list now, and many more. Article 23 provides that every EU Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): On the point citizen has the right to diplomatic protection. We had a made by the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton- debate on what that might mean to the individual. I am Harris) about needing an Act of Parliament as opposed speaking now about our power to scrutinise such decisions. to a resolution of both Houses, is not one of the Article 182(4) allows the Council to adopt, through advantages of such a course that it gives more time qualified majority voting, but only after consultation of for scrutiny, and that an Act is amendable in a much the European Parliament, specific EU research and greater way than a mere resolution? Given the importance development programmes. These must accord with the of the issues that the hon. Gentleman outlined, it is multi-year EU framework programme for research and vital that measures to do not get passed into law here in development that is decided through the ordinary legislative the UK indirectly or by accident, or by unintended procedure, but the decision on specific programmes sets consequences, as so often happens. 335 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 336
Mr Cash: That is exactly the point. The combined Mr Lidington: Certainly I agree that it is important to effect of the amendments that we are discussing is keep in our minds the distinction between the member directly related to what the hon. Gentleman says and to states and the EU as an entity. It is therefore important what my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry said. It that the treaties set out plainly that accession to the is about time that the Committee understood that the convention would not affect the EU’s competences in importance of these debates is not being reflected by any way, and that any extension or enlargement of EU the votes or by the attitude Government’s attitude. So competence would therefore have to be obtained by the far, they are not accepting any of the amendments. The normal process of treaty amendment, which is subject European Scrutiny Committee has produced a report, to the various checks that we are laying out in this and most of the amendments arise from it, including legislation. Under protocol 8 to the treaties, it is also the ones we are discussing. My hon. Friend is a member made clear that the Union’s accession to the ECHR will of that Committee, and other members of the Committee in no way affect the situation of the individual member are here as well. The net result is that we are not states as parties to that convention. So the accession by discussing the amendments properly. the EU to the convention cannot give further powers or competences to the EU; nor will it affect member states’ The Temporary Chairman: Order. The hon. Gentleman own standing with respect to the ECHR. seems to be talking about clause 9, but we are talking In dealing with Council of Europe matters, the about two specific amendments to clause 7. Government are always on the alert to avoid creating either the impression or the reality that EU member states, which are all individually parties to the ECHR, Mr Cash: I am happy to endorse the view that has are acting as a bloc. The situation is unusual, because been expressed. I wanted to make a general point, and the Council of Europe is an institution in which EU that is really all I need to say at this stage. member states have a majority over other state parties. Therefore, it is important that that distinction of principle Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): I would like to to which my hon. Friend alluded is maintained. address my remarks to clauses 7, 8, 9 and 10, rather than to the amendments. Mr Clappison: May I say—I hope the Minister will appreciate this—that he has been extremely assiduous in attending to Council of Europe matters and exemplary The Temporary Chairman: The hon. Gentleman will in discharging his ministerial responsibility in respect of be able to talk about clause 7 when we come on to them? He made an extremely important point about the clause stand part. Council of Europe, which is that it includes many other nations that are not EU member states. It is a good 2.45 pm thing for countries that are members of the Council of Europe to be dealt with individually, including those The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): that also happen to be EU member states, so as not to Amendments 24 and 25 would require that before the create in any sense the impression that there is an EU EU can accede to the European convention on human bloc, because that has a bad impact on human rights in rights, Parliament would need to approve the EU’s Europe, extending more widely than just the EU. accession by Act of Parliament. At present, the EU and its institutions cannot be held to account for the fulfilment Mr Lidington: I agree. Quite apart from any constitutional of its existing international legal obligations by the or legal significance, it would be politically and ECHR in the same way as the EU member states all diplomatically counter-productive to go down the route can. Accession by the EU to the convention would close that my hon. Friend has rightly warned against. Whether this gap. the UK as state party should continue to have the EU accession to the ECHR is, as I think my hon. relationship with the European convention on human Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) rights that we currently have is a matter of intense in the acknowledged, already expressly provided for in the EU debate in the House, and Members on both sides of the treaties, as amended by the treaty of Lisbon. Article 6(2) Committee have their views on that. of the treaty on the EU provides that The point for the purposes of this afternoon’s “the Union shall accede to the ECHR”. considerations is that the accession of the EU to the ECHR would make no practical difference to the UK’s position. The Government see some advantages in EU Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): I am sure accession, because the European Court of Human Rights that in his usual persuasive way my right hon. Friend in Strasbourg could act as a direct check on how EU will give us a very good account of the legal case for the institutions exercise their powers, in exactly the same EU acceding to the ECHR. I hope that as he does so he way it acts as a check on the actions of all other will dispel the suspicion that is forming in many people’s signatories to the convention. In know that some of my minds that the real reason, never mind the complicated hon. Friends will say that they believe that the European legal rationale that he has given, is to put the EU on the Court of Human Rights should not have that type of same footing as the other signatories to the convention, authority over this country, but I say to them that it is which are all member states, and to give the EU the my belief that the EU and its institutions should be held character of a member state. It is only member states to the same standards on human rights as we expect of that have acceded to the ECHR, and all the members of member states. the EU have done so. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will give us a very thorough explanation, which Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I will also serve to dispel that suspicion that is forming in thank the Minister for giving way and for his patient many people’s minds. responses to so many questions. I wonder whether it is 337 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 338 necessary for the EU to sign up to the ECHR, because The Temporary Chair (Martin Caton): The hon. we have already debated the question of how EU law Gentleman is supposed to be making an intervention, comes into effect in this country, which is by Act of not a speech. Parliament. Therefore, any decision made by the EU can come into effect here only under our own laws, Mr Cash: There is an obligation to answer this point. which are of course already justiciable under the European Court of Human Rights. This is not so much an added safeguard as a symbolic step towards creating the European Mr Lidington: I look forward with relish to studying Union as a state. the European Scrutiny Committee’s conclusions. Mr Lidington: We certainly need to guard against There are already a number of ways for the Government that. The Government have accepted, as did the and Parliament to exercise control over the precise Conservative party before the general election, that the terms of the EU’s accession agreement. Article 218(8) ratification of the Lisbon treaty is a political and legal of the TFEU makes it clear that accession would be reality and that we will work within that context. The subject to unanimous agreement by the Council and treaty states that the EU shall accede to the ECHR, and that the Council’s decisions to conclude the agreement it also provides that the judgments of the European cannot enter into force until it has been approved by all Court of Human Rights should be considered, once member states individually and in accordance with their accession has taken place, as general principles of EU respective constitutional requirements, which are entirely law. In those circumstances, one would expect that a matter for each member state. those in the Commission who are responsible for drafting In addition, all EU member states are also parties to European directives and other legislative initiatives would the European convention on human rights in their own have regard to the judgments of the Court and would right and will also be parties to the accession instrument. frame draft European legislation in order to meet the As with any other treaty to which the UK is party, the standards of that jurisprudence. final accession agreement will be subject to the procedures under part 2 of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Jacob Rees-Mogg: Will the Minister clarify Her Majesty’s Act 2010—the codification of the Ponsonby procedures. Government’s view of the Lisbon treaty, because it That requires the agreement to be laid before Parliament seems to me that they are in quite a strong position to for 21 sitting days, during which time either House may say that things that have not already been done, which resolve that it should not be ratified. On top of those are subject to unanimity before they can be implemented, two levels of control, clause 10 of the Bill will add an need not be implemented by the Government? additional layer of accountability by requiring a positive Mr Lidington: There is a clear statement on the face vote in favour of the agreement in each House before of the treaty that the EU shall accede to the European the UK could approve the EU’s decision to conclude convention on human rights, and the Government’s such an agreement. position is that we accepted that statement and that commitment as part of the Lisbon treaty. As I hope to Chris Heaton-Harris: I do not want at all to talk explain shortly, the law and our procedures in this about the detail of the European convention on human House provide a number of safeguards that, I believe, rights, but I make the point that we will probably need will enable the House of Commons and the other place an Act of Parliament, or a resolution as it stands. I do to scrutinise in detail any proposal for accession when it not intend to press the amendment, but I wanted to comes forward. ensure that the Minister completely understood my Mr Cash: Will the Minister give way? reasons for tabling and for wanting appropriate scrutiny of the points that it raises. Mr Lidington: I will give way, but a large group of amendments is listed on the Order Paper for consideration Mr Lidington: I completely understand my hon. Friend’s later today, and those amendments stand in the names motives, and if I may say so without bringing him into of many hon. and right hon. Members. I want to try to complete disrepute with a number of other hon. Members limit my comments on the early group so that we have on the Back Benches, he has played an extremely active time for a thorough debate on those amendments on and constructive part in our debates in Committee and justice and home affairs, which I think the Committee has adeptly and correctly spotted some loopholes in the would expect. Bill that have led the Government to bring forward Mr Cash: I have already been helpful to the Minister amendments to respond to the them. in limiting my earlier remarks. Having said that, I would Given that a number of control mechanisms already point out to him that this afternoon the European exist, that the accession agreement does no more than Scrutiny Committee has considered the document, “EU spell out the detail of something already provided for in Accession to the European Convention on Human the treaties and, most importantly, that there is no Rights”, and set out in full, for the purposes of ensuring practical effect of EU accession to the ECHR on the that the House is properly informed about what all the position of member states, there is no necessity for the arguments amount to, both the questions and answers additional requirement of an Act of Parliament. I that he has given to that Committee. In particular, we therefore welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention and include his letter of 30 June, our letter of 8 September hope that he will not press the amendment to a vote. and his letter of 21 September, and the detailed matters that arose on that, which take up two pages. We include our letter of 27 October and the explanatory memorandum Chris Heaton-Harris: I beg to ask leave to withdraw of 15 November. The idea that the Minister can slide the amendment. past this— Amendment, by leave, withdrawn 339 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 340
3pm Our entire proceedings, despite some considerable reservations on the one hand and downright hostility The Temporary Chair (Martin Caton): That brings us on the other, have been conducted in a civilised manner to the debate on clause 7 stand part. If I am reading the and in accordance with what I hope debates in this feeling of the Committee correctly, I shall allow this to House should consist of, but we need to take a good be a fairly wide debate, obviating the need for further look at what the provision implies, and this clause stand stand part debates on the later clauses. If we all understand part debate gives us the opportunity to do so. that, I shall show considerable laxity. Question proposed, That the clause stand part of According to the Secretary of State for Justice and the Bill. Lord Chancellor, accession will close the gap in human rights protection as applicants will for the first time be able to bring a complaint before the European Court of Mr Cash: I shall discuss my earlier point about EU Human Rights directly against the European Union accession to the ECHR in the context of the broad view and its institutions for alleged violations of ECHR that you, Mr Caton, have taken about the necessity to rights. It will enable the European Union to defend get some of these issues out in the open. I shall also itself directly before the European Court of Human refer to the document that I cited in my intervention on Rights in matters where EU law or actions of the EU the Minister, because we discussed it in the European have been impugned. Scrutiny Committee today. The document is a Council decision, the object of which is to authorise the European The Secretary of State also says that accession will Commission to start negotiations with the Council of reduce the risk of divergence and ensure consistency Europe on the EU’s accession to the European convention between human rights case law between the European on human rights. Our Committee reached the stage of a Court of Human Rights and the EU’s Court of Justice first report. in Luxembourg. That is very important. Furthermore, he says that the EU will be bound by European Court Chris Heaton-Harris: I very much apologise for not of Human Rights judgments in cases in which it is a being at the European Scrutiny Committee meeting, respondent, and like other contracting parties to the but I was getting ready for this session. Government ECHR the EU will need to have regard to the Strasbourg Members are giving the Bill the appropriate amount of jurisprudence. scrutiny, but, looking at the Opposition Benches, I I have heard the Secretary of State for Justice express wonder whether anybody on that side cares. views, albeit in other circumstances, in which he has raised concerns about the extent to which the judiciary Mr Cash: I could not agree more. My hon. Friend is is impinging on the sovereignty of this House, and I right, and I am glad that the Minister also nods in take him at his word. If he believes that, he might also agreement, because the accession is hugely important. I consider that the EU will have to have regard to Strasbourg understand entirely that the Minister has a view about jurisdiction. Sovereignty, which we have debated at it. He has also heard the very good arguments that my some length in relation to clause 18, is directly involved hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton- in that issue. Harris) has made on the specific questions that arise. I do not need to repeat any arguments that I set out in The Minister knows that it is a contentious issue, not relation to clause 18, and I have no intention of doing least because we are also dealing with the interaction of so, but the principle is about the use of jurisprudence the European convention on human rights, which came from Strasbourg or the European Union Court, the up in the statement on terrorism only an hour or so ago European Court of Justice, and its effect on the legislative in this very House, and the crucial balance between process in this House. There is also a constitutional security and freedom. We do not need to discuss control question for the United Kingdom about the manner in orders and counter-terrorism now, but I simply make which our judiciary is using Strasbourg precedents and the point that an enormous body of law could be importing them to their judgments in our courts. The affected by this. Lord Chief Justice recently criticised that, because he is The shadow Minister for Europe, the hon. Member worried about the impact of accession on the manner in for Caerphilly (Mr David), is attentive, was a member of which we make our decisions and the invasion of common the European Scrutiny Committee and is taking an law precedent. interest in the debate. Of course, he has to be here, but I think that he would be here anyway. I find it strange Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con): that the Chamber is almost completely empty when we I hesitate to intervene on such an erudite speech by my are considering these incredibly important issues, and it hon. Friend, but one problem that the Minister might would be interesting to know whether there is any want to consider in the context of the clause is that reason why. I am glad to welcome my hon. and learned accession by the EU to the convention will create essentially Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham co-ordinated jurisdiction over some areas between the (Stephen Phillips), who also has great knowledge of European Court of Justice on the one hand and the these matters. I hope that he will contribute to the Strasbourg Court on the other. Indirectly, therefore, it debate, because we have just discussed this point in the might affect the rights of this place, because more law European Scrutiny Committee, so it is an opportune and jurisprudence will come from both Courts, and that moment for us to look at the principles involved. might interfere with the way in which we conduct The Government support accession by the EU to the business and are expected both to represent our ECHR, as the Minister indicates. I am sorry that we got constituents and to make our own laws consistent with a little tetchy, but he gave me the impression that he accepted doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty. I have wanted to move on from the subject fairly quickly, and I intervened now because I think my hon. Friend will understand the necessity to move on to later amendments. agree with that point. 341 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 342
Mr Cash: Absolutely, and it could not have been which the accession proposal is being put through. It is better put. I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend, Government policy and it has significant implications who is Queen’s Counsel after all, as well as a distinguished for the daily lives of people. It is difficult in a debate member of the European Scrutiny Committee. He has such as this to give specific illustrations because the been following the matter with great interest and makes nature of the debate more or less precludes one from the point very well. doing so. We are supposed to be talking about the There is a further point to make about the statement generality of the constitutional change. However, I by the Secretary of State for Justice. He says that, simply want to put on record that it will have a significant additionally, European accession will mean that individuals impact on the practical lives of the people whom we who argue unsuccessfully in the European Court of represent. That is the key reason for raising these issues. Justice that the European Union has breached their We went on to note that the Cabinet Office guidance fundamental rights—I stress “fundamental”—can, subject recommended that Departments should provide the to the usual admissibility requirements, complain to the scrutiny Committees with European Court of Human Rights that the EU has “details of negotiating mandates as soon as they have been violated one or more of convention rights. The risk of approved”. confusion in that melee—that dual jurisdiction—is a We were grateful for the explanation of the Secretary of serious potential problem. The Secretary of State for State for Justice on how the Government view these Justice went on to say that European Court of Human matters. We asked him to explain further how the Rights judgments will be binding on the European current gap in human rights protection will be closed by Union as a respondent to the proceedings. accession, and what he meant by the word “directly” The Government, apparently, do not expect the European when he said: Union’s accession to the ECHR to have any direct “applicants will, for the first time, be able to bring a complaint impact on UK law. As article 6(3) of the treaty on before the European Court of Human Rights”— European Union confirms, the fundamental rights guaranteed by the ECHR already that is the Strasbourg Court— “constitute general principles of the Union’s law.” “directly against the EU and its institutions for alleged violations However, importantly, the Secretary of State for Justice of Convention rights”. concedes that an adverse judgment against the EU by the European Court of Human Rights may require the 3.15 pm EU to amend its legislation to protect individuals’ After an exchange, what it boiled down to was that fundamental rights in a way that will have consequential there is concern in academic circles that the charter of implications for UK law. That is why I not only have fundamental rights, which was brought in through a sympathy for what my hon. and learned Friend said, protocol in the Lisbon treaty, specifically allows for EU but refer back to the Minister’s assertion that it will not human rights law to provide “more extensive protection” have implications for EU law. than the ECHR, and that raises a problem. In light of As I said, we have had a number of exchanges with that, it is difficult to see why the Secretary of State for the Secretary of State for Justice. It is best if I pick out Justice concluded that a key benefit of accession to the one or two of his points from the correspondence, all of ECHR will be consistency between the two legal domains. which will be set out for the benefit of Members. I am On the contrary, there is concern in academic circles delighted that the hon. Member for Birmingham, that the charter will lead to legal uncertainty on how Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) has come to swell the ranks of human rights are applied in Europe by introducing the Labour Back Benchers, whose presence would otherwise additional standard of “fundamental” right. Although be non-existent. Unfortunately for the Minister, it is just in appearance that is an esoteric legal argument, it will possible that she will agree with what we are saying, but have an impact on people’s rights. That is the problem. we will wait and see. In the letter of 30 June, of which I am sure the Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): Minister is aware, the Secretary of State for Justice This may be one of the rare occasions when those on wrote to the European Scrutiny Committee, advising my Front Bench do not object to my intervention. I that the EU had adopted this mandate. He went on to really do not know what the hon. Gentleman is going explain that the Government support EU accession and on about. I have tried to read clause 7 again. Let us go made the remarks that I summarised earlier. We replied back. The fundamental charter of rights was introduced to him on 8 September stating that the EU’s accession because of the judgment against the European Union struck the Committee as potentially a significant as an institution over Gibraltar. Rather than signing up development in its internal legal order—despite treaty to the ECHR, which would have been the logical and provisions to the contrary—and that it would amount consistent thing to do once we had given it legal personality, to submitting the acts of EU institutions to independent we now have two systems. In the UK, we are signed up external control by the ECHR. We also said it was a to the ECHR. I would have preferred it if the EU had potentially significant development in the way in which signed up to the ECHR. The charter of fundamental EU citizens’ human rights are protected. We used the rights gives additional rights. I singularly fail to understand word “potentially” deliberately because it was difficult the point that the hon. Gentleman is making because on the information before us to know how much the the situation is no different. EU’s accession to the ECHR would be a symbolic gesture and how much it would lead to practical changes Mr Cash: I am expressing the view of academics who for United Kingdom citizens. have studied this matter, perhaps more than the hon. At this point, it is worth saying that these changes are Lady. [Interruption.] I am not making any personal not just generalisations, but that serious fundamental assertions. I am just saying that the evidence that we changes are being brought about by the manner in have is that the charter will lead to legal uncertainty 343 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 344
[Mr Cash] Mr Cash: Indeed, and that is because the abstract principles contained in the charter, the ECHR convention over how human rights are applied in Europe by introducing and so on have developed a completely different type of the additional standard of fundamental rights. I am not law from ours. In a way, this debate illustrates the criticising the hon. Lady, but simply replying to her difficulty that exists. I say to the Minister that as ever, question by expressing the view that is taken in academic the Government are acquiescing in greater movement circles. towards the human rights culture. I may say that if anyone knows of my record in Stephen Phillips: Does my hon. Friend agree that the relation to matters such as this, they will know that problem that is being expressed is that there will be two nobody is more likely to want to defend the rights of competing and overlapping systems, adjudicated upon individuals. All Members are devoted to trying to ensure by two different Courts, which is potentially a recipe for that there is proper protection. The trouble is how to get disaster? I think that is the point that he is seeking to to that point. I believe, for example in relation to make. terrorism, that if we legislate in Westminster according Mr Cash: I have made that point and am entirely to the principles of habeas corpus, due process and fair grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for repeating it. trial, and according to our established procedures, we The issue is that there is a significant potential for can be sure that no suspect will be ill-treated in our uncertainty when there are two Courts. prison cells, however much potential circumstantial evidence there is against them. Ms Gisela Stuart: I accept that there is a potential Habeas corpus is the first duty of the judge. Ask any conflict, but given that we are already a signatory to the senior judge and he will say, “My first obligation is to ECHR and that the EU is already a signatory to the apply habeas corpus.” He would go straight down from charter, none of this adds to the complexity—the complexity his chambers to the prison to make absolutely certain already exists. that a person was not being ill-treated. If a writ of habeas corpus is issued, that is that. It is one of our Mr Cash: I accept that. That complexity does exist, most fundamental protections of liberty for the citizen. and part of the difficulty with the whole issue of human A great deal of human rights legislation, and all that rights, whether in relation to accession, the charter or goes with it, is moving us away from that. There are also the jurisdiction of the Courts, is shown in the comments political judges in other countries. There are different of the Lord Chief Justice in his Judicial Studies Board systems of law, yet we are acquiescing in a process of lecture. He said to the entire judiciary, “Brothers and change away from our established system. sisters”, referring to the other judges—[Interruption.] Well, that is their language. He said, “Brother and sister It is difficult to grasp the broad sense of what is judges, will you please take note that our first obligation happening, but it has a direct impact. However, the is to have regard to the manner in which we come to our Government are acquiescing in it on a significant scale. decisions in the light of common law precedent?” He That was why, when I was shadow Attorney-General, I warned them against adopting Strasbourg’s precedents proposed the repeal of the Human Rights Act 1998. as a means of arriving at decisions in our own courts. That was our policy up to the time of the coalition He actually used the words, “We must beware”. I therefore agreement, and the Prime Minister himself repeatedly entirely agree with the hon. Lady and with my hon. and said that he thoroughly endorsed it. It was Conservative learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North party policy, but under the coalition it has been abandoned, Hykeham, and with the views expressed in the European which seems a big jump. In addition, during the debates Scrutiny Committee’s report that has come out only this on the Bill we have seen further acquiescence in the afternoon. process of moving towards the abstract principle, instead of the concept of the common-law precedent, which my Mr Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills There is indeed a conflict of courts, which has been a (Mr Shepherd) mentioned. matter of considerable concern for a number of years. It is the oldest question of all—who is the master? Where Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): My issue with there is a conflict between a constitutional court—the my hon. Friend’s eloquent speech is that I do not European Court—and a human rights court, who prevails? understand the word “process” that he has been using. That is the lack of clarity that exists and the worrying We are already under the convention regime. Whether aspect for many people. It has been much talked about we are in or out of that is a boundary question. He in the European Parliament in recent years. might want to get out, but that is a different debate. Nothing he can do to amend the Bill will fundamentally Mr Cash: Indeed, and I add that my hon. Friend, alter the fact that we are already signed up to the who is a member of the Joint Committee on Human “process”. Rights, has been manfully seeking to contain the tsunami of opinions expressed in that Committee about the continuing onward movement towards accession of the Mr Cash: With great respect to my hon. Friend, he type that we are discussing here and about the human came into the Chamber somewhat after my hon. Friend rights culture and all that goes with it. the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) explained why he wanted to amend the Bill to ensure that we Mr Shepherd: I am not a lawyer, as is evident, but the retain greater sovereignty in relation to certain matters great difficulty is that we have a common-law tradition, arising under the European convention. I do not criticise and the European tradition is civil law. Those are totally my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi different ways of looking the world. It is the case law Kwarteng) for coming in a bit late, but we have already that I am worried about. discussed that matter—we are now on clause stand part 345 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 346 and the general question of the principles on which the it now. That ought to be of great concern to the House, convention operates. Does my hon. Friend want to which is why the ESC has produced a special report and intervene again? why I have gone into the detail in this debate rather than in a debate on specific amendments. Kwasi Kwarteng: I will have my say—don’t worry. 3.30 pm Mr Cash: Certainly. My hon. Friend says, “We are where we are.” In this debate and in the debate on the The draft report notes that—and I refer this section individual amendments, the Committee is dealing with particularly to the Minister, because he may not have some very important principles, including the principal seen it yet— question of the shift of accession. Therefore, it is important “the guidance for Parliamentary scrutiny of EU documents states for us to explain and illustrate, by reference to documents, that ‘Departments should ensure that the Committees are kept informed as much as possible about the scope and development which I am not going through in detail, and by general of negotiations prior to conclusion of an agreement.’ We look principles, that with regard to the charter, the European forward to being kept so informed. Meanwhile, the document Court of Justice, the European convention on human remains under scrutiny.” rights and the Strasbourg Court, there are important This is a very important matter. It is complex and questions that will affect the constituents whom we requires some appreciation of the direction of navigation, serve. which is towards an abstract system of law based on For example, the Minister has told us that the only abstract principles rather than common law and precedent. way that individuals can argue in the Strasbourg Court It involves an interaction of the ECJ and the ECHR. that the EU has breached their human rights is to bring We fear the possibility of inconsistency and uncertainty proceedings against one or more member states. His as a result, and this is the opportunity to explain answer to the question, “What do you mean by ‘directly’?” those fears. was that once the EU has acceded to the convention, it I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for will be possible for the EU itself to be the respondent Daventry for raising the question specifically and to my and to defend claims in its own name. When we asked hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) how accession will reduce the risk of divergence and for his amendments. I thought it would be sensible if I ensure consistency between human rights case law, took the opportunity to set out the position of the Strasbourg and Luxembourg when article 52(3) of the Committee in relation to the exchange of correspondence charter specifically allows human rights law to provide with the Minister. As a rider, I would just add that we “more extensive protection” than the ECHR—my hon. appear to be acquiescing to the move to a system of and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North abstract law, which is not in the interests of the people Hykeham referred to that—we were told that the EU of this country. The issue is not that we are where we must have regard to Strasbourg jurisprudence. are: it is the impact that where we are is having on our Our problem over and over again is that the answers constituents. That move towards acquiescence is causing that we get are a further extension of the principles that me ever more concern, because we are being absorbed move us away from common law and precedent, and into a system that is changing the face of our politics, that instead absorb us into a system of law, judgments our judiciary and even our parliamentary sovereignty. and courts that operate on abstract principles. It is as For all those reasons, it should be taken very seriously. simple as that. That is the key question. When there is a However, judging from the fact that yet again no Labour divergence between the two Courts, those problems will Back Benchers are in their places, we can form some become more conflated and confused. judgment about the extent to which they care about Another question was how the EU autonomous legal their constituents in relation to matters that will have an order will be preserved in light of European Court of enormous impact on their daily lives. Justice opinions in certain cases, which I will not go into in detail. In a nutshell, we are grateful for the Minister’s Mr David: I thank the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) replies, which are included in the European Scrutiny for providing an indication of what his Committee’s Committee’s report so that anybody who wants to read recent report says. We have heard over the last few days them can do so. I quite understand that those who have how important his reports have been in the consideration come into the Chamber very recently did not hear the of this Bill. I also thank him for providing a useful arguments advanced by my hon. Friend the Member for context to the developing relationship between British Daventry and the specific issues that he raised. law and European law. During the last couple of days, we have heard a great Kwasi Kwarteng: If the remarks of my hon. Friend deal from the Government about so-called direct the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) were democracy—enabling the people to make decisions so fundamental, why did he not press his amendments themselves. However, it is worth remembering that the to a Division? Conservative party has never been the party of devolution in Britain and it has always had a very limited definition Mr Cash: The short answer is that my hon. Friend the of the European concept of subsidiarity. During the Member for Daventry did not do so because he had last few days, we have also discussed the exemption dealt with the questions that needed to be dealt with in clause and the significance test—ways in which the relation to those amendments. I am concerned with the Govt are substantially qualifying their apparent broader issue of the relationship between the European commitment to referendums. This afternoon, we go on Court of Justice and the European Court of Human to discuss the Government’s proposals for those issues Rights in Strasbourg. That is the principal question in a that they deem, to quote the Minister for Europe, are clause stand part debate, which is why I am dealing with “not of sufficient significance” to require a referendum. 347 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 348
[Mr David] directive at the start of the legislative process, making the same decision during that process and at its conclusion, Clause 7 sets out where primary legislation is required although I understand that they are to review the position in such areas. It is interesting that the Government see when it comes to the adoption of the directive. Parliament playing a key role, but only on what it We believe that this is an important issue—an issue considers to be second tier issues—issues that do not that clearly has to be addressed on an international and require, to quote the Minister again, a “full-blown a European basis. I understand that the Government referendum”. Leaving aside the difference between a have decided to opt in to the sexual abuse, sexual full-blown and a half-blown referendum, this differentiation exploitation of children and child pornography directive— between what is deemed appropriate for direct democratic and quite right too—but what about the issue of decision-making and for parliamentary decision-making international human trafficking? Our view is clear: it is well illustrates the incoherence and contradictions at an important issue that Britain should be tackling in the heart of this Bill. co-operation with our European partners. However, the For example, yesterday we heard from the Minister issue before us today is whether it is sensible, according how under schedule 1 of the Bill any change to the to the Government’s own logic, to agree to their proposal appointment procedure of the advocates-general of the that such opt-in provisions should be subject to ECJ would attract a referendum. However, according to parliamentary scrutiny, but not a referendum. We fully the letter that the Minister sent to his Back Benchers in believe that there should be more parliamentary scrutiny. November, a move from unanimity to qualified majority That is why we agreed to an enhanced role for national voting for decisions concerning the number of advocates- Parliaments in the Lisbon treaty. However, given that general would not attract a referendum, but would be the Government have been arguing for referendums on covered by clause 7. Perhaps he will be kind enough to important issues, why are they not proposing a referendum explain to the Committee why there are to be different on such an important issue? procedures on those two related issues. It would be According to the protocol to the Lisbon treaty, the difficult in the extreme for any Government to explain United Kingdom has an opt-in provision that will last why a referendum would be held on the one issue, but for four and a half years. After that, Britain will be fully not the other. part of the justice and home affairs decision-making It should be stressed that clause 7 is not about stopping process. Last night we heard that the Government had changes at either the Council of Ministers or the European absolutely no intention whatever of allowing referendums Council, because any member state can block a change to take place before 2015 at the earliest. The question to an internal passerelle clause. Clause 7 is only about that I ask is: why? According to the Government’s own providing parliamentary approval if the Government logic, if there are to be referendums on important have already agreed to use one of the decisions set out changes that affect the United Kingdom, there should in the clause. As my hon. Friend the Member for surely be a referendum on this justice and home affairs Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) pointed opt-in during the course of this Parliament. Nothing out yesterday, it would be extremely difficult for a better shows the inconsistency and incoherence of the Bill Council decision to abolish unanimity in respect of the than this. It is a muddled clause in a very muddled Bill. adoption of any future acts. Indeed, Sir John Grant, the So much for clause 9. Next is clause 10. If what we former United Kingdom permanent representative to have been discussing does not make things complicated the European Union put the matter extremely well in enough, clause 10 sets out a further six decisions that his evidence to the European Scrutiny Committee when require parliamentary approval. It is as though the he said that Government have gone out of their way to create a “everybody’s got to agree that some of them are going to be piece of legislation that is deliberately confusing, obsessively outvoted.” complex and designed to confound every constitutional It is extremely unlikely that such a scenario would arise, expert in the land. so in reality the impact of clause 7 will be very small Let me be clear: we strongly support greater indeed. parliamentary involvement and greater parliamentary After clause 7 we have clause 8, which would give scrutiny. That is why Baroness Ashton, when she was Parliament a greater role over the so-called flexibility Leader of the House of Lords under the previous clause in the Lisbon treaty, and after that there is Government, made a statement setting out commitments clause 9, which deals with justice and home affairs by the then Government for more parliamentary scrutiny issues. Yesterday we discussed how some justice and on actions arising from the justice and home affairs home affairs issues would be covered by a referendum; protocols. Last week, this Government made a statement today we discuss some justice and home affairs issues that reaffirmed those commitments, and I welcome that will not. In particular, I want to refer to opt-ins to that. However, we are genuinely concerned about the measures lack of clarity. This is an obtuse and even eccentric way “under the area of freedom, security and justice”. of addressing serious constitutional issues. They are Interestingly, the Bill does not really deal with one issues that affect the people of this country on a day-to-day extremely important area. Britain has a temporary opt-out basis, and the country and the House deserve better in the Lisbon treaty with regard to certain justice and than the Bill before us today. home affairs measures. Under that protocol there are transitional provisions that provide for the United Kingdom Mr Lidington: May I first respond to my hon. Friend to participate—or not—in certain European Union justice the Member for Stone (Mr Cash)? He spoke with his and home affairs measures. For example, the Government characteristic dignity, courtesy and thoroughness about decided not to opt in to the draft EU directive on the issue of EU accession. I am sure that he will human trafficking. They decided not to opt in to that understand that I want to look carefully at the report 349 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 350 from his Committee, rather than responding on the Member for Daventry questioned me on those areas of hoof this afternoon. As he would expect, a subject of policy, defined in various parts of the treaty, where this significance needs to be discussed by Ministers article 48(7) could be applied to move from the special collectively in order for the Government to come up to the ordinary legislative procedure, but where QMV with the thorough and considered response that every still applies now and would apply in the new circumstances. member of his Committee deserves. If it would help the hon. Lady, I will happily copy the Clause 7 fulfils the pledge made in the coalition letter I write to my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry programme for government that to her as well. “the use of any passerelle”— We took the opportunity in working on this Bill to or ratchet clause— take a fresh look at this issue. We concluded that a “would require primary legislation.” general principle could be applied—that articles already in the treaties that provided a “one-way” option should It sets out that the Government may not agree to the use also be considered to be passerelle clauses. These one-way of a number of passerelles, or ratchet clauses, in the EU options add to or reduce what could be done within treaties unless the approval from this House is specified existing areas of EU competence, but without changes in an Act of Parliament. to either voting rules or legislative procedures. We felt As the Foreign Secretary and I have made clear in the that they should be subject to primary legislation. past, there is no straightforward legal or treaty definition We also looked hard at articles that modify the of a ratchet clause. The European Union (Amendment) composition or rules of procedure of existing EU Act 2008 listed 10 such clauses and limited the definition institutions and bodies. We will come on to most of to use of the simplified revision procedure and to nine those when we debate clause 10. However, we felt that articles that allow for the giving up of the British veto in the article allowing for the amendment of the number specific areas. When we considered that commitment in of Commissioners was a highly significant article as it the coalition programme, we decided that that definition could be used to negotiate a reduction in the current was insufficient. So for a start, we have put a referendum requirement that every member state should nominate lock on many of the passerelles listed in the 2008 Act. one Commissioner. We therefore proposed, because of We debated those matters earlier in our Committee the importance of that matter, that any such decision proceedings. Others we have subjected to a primary should require approval by primary legislation. legislation lock under clause 7. So the use of article 48(7) to give up the UK veto in an area that we did not include in schedule 1 to the Bill would, none the less, Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Is it not ludicrous still require full parliamentary approval in an Act of that there are so many Commissioners? There are far Parliament. The same principle applies to any proposal too many of them to give them all proper jobs. Half of to move to qualified majority voting in an area of them do not have a proper job now. We have ended up enhanced co-operation in which the UK is a participant. with a system under which each country gets one Commissioner, but they are not meant to be there as “the British Commissioner”. They should work together 3.45 pm as a commission. When it comes to state aid, it is My hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris particularly important that they act independently, not Heaton-Harris) referred to article 48(7), and asked me as a national representative. about those aspects of it that did not involve giving up the UK veto but that made possible a shift to the ordinary legislative procedure. It is true that there are Mr Lidington: The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris eight largely technical cases where article 48(7) could be Bryant), my predecessor in office, puts a strongly held used to move from the special legislative procedure to view with characteristic cogency. Whatever the merits of the ordinary legislative procedure, but they do not his argument, it seems to me that departing from the involve a move from unanimity to qualified majority principle that each country should be entitled to nominate voting, as QMV already applies in each of those eight a Commissioner would be a change of major significance instances. We believe that all such a decision would do to the way in which the European Union is organised would be to increase the role of the European Parliament and run. As such, it would seem appropriate, whatever from being consulted to being the joint decision-making the merits of demerits of the proposal, that this should authority with the Council. It would not change the be subject to primary legislation rather than any less UK’s position under QMV. In the light of my hon. demanding form of parliamentary scrutiny. Friend’s comments, I would be happy to take the issue away and reflect on it further. Perhaps I could write to Ms Stuart rose— him on that detailed point, ahead of the Report stage, and see if I can satisfy him on that account. Chris Bryant rose— Ms Gisela Stuart: I apologise if I have missed something that the Minister has already said, but are the lists Mr Lidington: I am conscious of the pressure on time setting out what requires a referendum and what requires and I am going to try to make some progress. other procedures indicative or exhaustive? Let me respond to the challenge from the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David) about the numbers of advocates- Mr Lidington: What is clear in the Bill is that anything general. There are not 27 advocates-general, so we are under article 48(7) relating to the giving up of a UK not in the position of having one for every member veto or a move to qualified majority voting would state, but it is important that we retain the veto on this, require primary legislation here. My hon. Friend the and we have no intention of giving it up. 351 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 352
[Mr Lidington] The problem with the Bill, and with clause 7 in particular, is that it will make it more difficult for us to It is important for the United Kingdom to be able to negotiate with other countries to achieve the outcomes approve the appointments of judges and advocates-general, that we want for the British people. Let us suppose, for and we felt that it was sufficiently important to be example, that France introduced a law similar to this included in schedule 1. and we tried to negotiate a proposal that is in the coalition agreement, namely that we should end the Mr David rose— ludicrous caravanserai between Brussels and Strasbourg. Mr Lidington: There will be other opportunities for It is laid down in the treaties that the European Parliament us to debate the number of advocates-general, and I am shall have two places in which to sit, which is ludicrous sure that the hon. Gentleman is ingenious enough to given the vast amount of money that is spent on the two identify them. He and his hon. Friends have managed buildings, the vast inconvenience caused to people, and to weave the issue into every speech they have made so the creation of a monopoly air service which is also far at every stage of the Bill’s progress. ludicrously expensive. Moreover, I do not think that all that has resulted in a better policy and decision-making Mr David rose— process. However, if the French Government had a law such as this, they would simply block every treaty Mr Lidington: I am afraid that I am going to deny change that might be in our interests. myself the pleasure of hearing a further explanation from the hon. Gentleman. Stephen Phillips: As always, I am grateful to the right The other articles listed in clause 7—covering decisions hon. Gentleman for giving way, but has he not just on provisions for elections to the European Parliament, made the case for why the Bill is so important? In the on the system of own resources of the EU, and on the example that he has given, it would be possible for the adoption of provisions to replace the excessive deficit French Government to say to other European procedure—already require primary legislation before Governments, “This is in the interests of my country, this country can agree to them, and clause 7 replicates and I will therefore not be able to get it through.” Is that those earlier requirements. Decisions under the articles not the great merit of the Bill, and is it not the sort of listed in clause 7(2) would require approval in accordance Bill that we would never have seen from the Government with the constitutional requirements of the member of whom he was a member? state before the member state confirmed its approval of a decision. The four articles that I mentioned are also Chris Bryant: May I just clear something up? I am subject to enhanced parliamentary control in Germany not right honourable, although many hon. Members following the judgment of the Federal Constitutional have recently referred to me as such. Many would doubt Court on the Lisbon treaty. whether I am even honourable. For the other decisions listed in subsection (4), primary legislation will be needed before this country votes in The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel the Council of Ministers or the European Council. In Evans): Order. I am not calling a Division on this one! other words, the Act will be needed before the United Kingdom can cast its vote. We intend that to happen Chris Bryant: I do not think you are able to call one, before the final political decision to use the ratchet Mr Evans. clause is made at European Union level but after official- The hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North level negotiations have been completed, so that it is Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) seems to be arguing that clear to Parliament that that is the final text and it can we should adopt a French style of intransigence, make a decision on what is proposed without the risk of permanently trying solely to defend the British interest. further changes. In the end, such an approach cuts off our nose to spite Unlike the 2008 Act, the Bill does not contain a our face. I do not think that anybody here thinks that disapplication provision giving Ministers discretion to the double-sitting arrangement is sensible, and most approve a decision that has been amended since being French politicians would agree in private. If this country approved by Parliament. That is deliberate. We want starts setting up barriers to try to make it more difficult Parliament to approve the final version, although it will to change anything in the European Union, other countries of course be examining the proposals from an early will do the same and we will end up keeping some of the stage under the existing arrangements for parliamentary anomalies and ludicrous elements of the European scrutiny of European legislation. Union. That is why I oppose the clause. I would have I should emphasise that these provisions will apply dealt with all that in a short intervention on the Minister. only when the Government intend to agree to a measure. If the Government of the day did not support the Mr Shepherd: I do not understand this. The hon. exercise of any of the ratchet clauses, they would simply Gentleman says, “It is in the treaty” but this Bill has block their adoption. However, the pledge in the coalition nothing to do with changing the treaty and is about agreement and the commitment in the Bill provide that circumstances that may arise in the future. So what when the Government would be in favour of such a point is he making? If the treaty provides for movement decision, Parliament must approve it first. between the two centres on a rotating basis, it is mandatory, is it not? How does this relate to the Bill? Chris Bryant: I did not intend to speak, but as the Minister refused to give way—it was the first time I had Chris Bryant: The Bill does make reference to treaty ever seen a Minister do that in Committee—I wanted to change, and understandably so. I thought that the whole make one very brief point. [Interruption.] I see that the argument that the hon. Gentleman and many others Whip is fulminating. He can go and fulminate on his own. have made over the past three or four years during 353 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 354 discussion of the Lisbon treaty and its predecessor was that there was never a referendum that supported the that because a treaty change was involved, there should Lisbon treaty. That is completely untrue, as the Spaniards be a referendum. All I am saying is that if that had been were the first to hold a referendum and it had an 83% or the proposition in France, we would never see an end to 84% yes vote, so he is wrong about that. that element of treaty change. I would, however, be I think I have made my argument on Strasbourg. amazed if the Government make any progress on trying to change the Strasbourg provisions, although perhaps Mr David: My hon. Friend is making a very important the Minister will be able to enlighten us on that. point. He has used the example of Strasbourg, but he is making a wider point. The process of change in the Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): The European Union, as anybody who knows anything at hon. Gentleman mentions that the dual site of the all about it will be aware, is based on negotiations. The European Parliament is provided for in the treaties. point of the Bill is that it makes it impossible for future Surely the key issue is that the coalition agreement says Governments in this country to negotiate in Britain’s that we are going to deal with this situation. The national interest. opportunity to do so is coming up, because the eurozone needs our agreement to a new treaty. In return for our Chris Bryant: Absolutely. There are many different agreement, surely we could demand that the European things in the European Union—many determined in Parliament move to a single site, thus fulfilling what is treaty—that I want to change as a pro-European and as in the coalition agreement. somebody who wants always to defend the British interest. I do not see those two things running counter to each Chris Bryant: That little speech was the definition of other. My argument in essence is that the Government “denial”, because there is no prospect of the French must have enough freedom to proceed in negotiations, volunteering a treaty change on the Strasbourg sittings so that they can gain concessions from the other side. If unless an enormous contribution is to be made from a country has already locked itself down, it is impossible our side, which the Government would be able to deliver to gain concessions from the other side. only if they were holding a referendum. By forcing referendums here, which means that the Government Mark Reckless rose— cannot give anything away, the Bill is making it impossible to win the argument on closing down Strasbourg—I Ms Gisela Stuart rose— mean the sittings there, not the city. Chris Bryant: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, Kwasi Kwarteng: The issue that the hon. Gentleman then to my hon. Friend, and then please release me. raises in his example is clear. He suggests that the French would be reluctant to give away the right to have Mark Reckless: I would suggest that the hon. Gentleman the two sites. That just illustrates the point that my hon. has not entirely seen my point. A referendum is only and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North one lever that the UK can use to extract concessions. Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) made about the French Our agreement is needed on the new treaty for the sticking up for their interests, and it touches on the eurozone, which is desperately needed to try to put in whole point of this Bill. It seems extraordinary for a place a permanent bail-out mechanism. My suggestion Member of Parliament to say, “We don’t like the Bill and, as I understand it, the commitment in the coalition because sticking up for our interests might in some way agreement is that as a coalition we will ensure that the damage the whole European project.” That is not what Parliaments move to one site and work to limit the we are trying to do. application of the working time directive in the UK. Surely that new treaty gives us an opportunity to do so. Chris Bryant: I think that the hon. Gentleman misunderstands me. I am sure that that is my fault, Chris Bryant: No, because one requires treaty change because I cannot have expressed this at sufficient length and the other does not. If we have already locked or ably enough. The point I am trying to make is that ourselves down by saying that any element of change our insistence that there will be no treaty change without would have to be submitted to a referendum, when we a referendum makes it more difficult for us to achieve effectively know that most referendums on many of changes in the treaty that we want to pursue, because these issues would be lost in the UK—that is the whole other countries will simply say, “We know that you are tenor of the argument made by the hon. Gentleman determined not to have any treaty change whatsoever, and others on the Government Benches—it will be which is why you have created this referendum lock and impossible for us to negotiate with a free hand. In the all the rest of it.” That is why, I think, Government end, that will be bad for the British interest. Members who are delighted that the coalition is committed Ms Gisela Stuart: I want to make an offer to Members to trying to change the situation in relation to the dual of running classes on how the EU works. Anybody who sittings and Strasbourg are profoundly deluded. has ever worked in the EU would turn in their grave if we were to rerun the past 10 minutes—except those who 4pm are not there yet. The comments have shown a complete Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): How does the and utter lack of understanding of how the EU works hon. Gentleman reconcile his statements about our and how treaty changes work. What is most amazing having a referendum, when lots of negotiations have about the Bill is that I find myself for the first time in gone on while many countries have had referendums? years agreeing with those on my Front Bench—that shows how wrong the Government are. Negotiations Chris Bryant: Referendums in different countries operate are different; none of this has anything to do with in different ways. I think that I have heard the Minister clause 7 and hon. Members are utterly wrong. I am say on a couple of occasions both here and elsewhere happy to run a workshop on that afterwards. 355 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 356
Chris Bryant: It is a delight to agree with my hon. legal processes and legislative procedures we pass laws, Friend. I do not think that she and I have ever agreed on we do so on the basis of what is stated in an Act of anything before. That is perhaps a slight exaggeration; I Parliament and we consider the words. Some of the think we agreed that a Labour Government were better remarks I made in the previous debate on clause 7 about than a Conservative one. abstract principles are related to this issue. Ordinary Many thanks for calling me to speak, Mr Evans. I statutes, particularly in the field of administrative law, think I have made my one point eight times now, and frequently make certain provisions after a whole series that will probably suffice. of propositions in different sections. Right at the end, there is often an expression such as, “And all such Question put and agreed to. measures as may be regarded as reasonably necessary to Clause 7 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. carry out these functions,” but they are very carefully constrained by the administrative court, and the tests are quite significant. If there is a catch-all provision that Clause 8 has the effect of enlarging the existing treaty arrangements, it is incredibly important to make sure that what is DECISIONS UNDER ARTICLE 352 OF TFEU included can be justified and has proper authority. Mr Cash: I beg to move amendment 53, page 6, In the context of legislation that comes to the House line 41, leave out ‘(3) to (5)’ and insert ‘(3) and (4)’. and thereafter affects the daily lives of the electorate, we already know, for reasons that I do not need to enlarge The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel on, that the manner in which legislation is implemented Evans): With this it will be convenient to discuss the could, in a nutshell, be one or two lines or a paragraph following: in a treaty that are equivalent to an entire Act of Parliament. With that comes a whole process of Amendment 26, page 7, line 7, leave out subsections interpretation that is different from our own, because it (5) to (7) and add— is not necessarily precise and because it looks at purposes—it ‘(5) This subsection is complied with if— has a purposive quality. Then there are provisions relating (a) in each House of Parliament a Minister of the Crown to subsidiarity that generally are not adhered to. moves a motion that the House approves Her Majesty’s Government’s intention to support a specified draft When we are dealing with a specific treaty and decision and is of the opinion that the decision relates considering its wording and range, we should ask, when only to one or more of the following purposes— it becomes part of UK legislation through section 2 of (i) to make provision equivalent to that made by a the European Communities Act, as enforced by the measure previously adopted under Article 352 of courts and their system of interpretation, how far and TFEU, where that previous measure was adopted to what extent it was anticipated that the legislation following the commencement of section 8 of the being spelt out, even in a treaty, would result in certain European Union Act 2011 and the draft decision consequences in terms of the precise policies that will relating to that measure was approved by Act of emerge from the process. It is incumbent on us to Parliament; implement the law, under section 2, but at the same time (ii) to repeal existing measures adopted under Article 352 there is a great degree of collateral within which the of TFEU; actual provisions in a treaty are brought into effect, and (iii) to consolidate existing measures adopted under there is also their effect on the people to consider. In Article 352 of TFEU without any change of substance, where those existing measures were adopted many instances, people could not reasonably have been following the commencement of section 8 of the expected to know exactly how that provision would European Union Act 2011 and the draft decisions turn out in policy. relating to those measures were approved by Act I happen to be a bit of a traditionalist and I think of Parliament; and that when we pass legislation it should be consistent (b) each House agrees to the motion without amendment.’. with policy making, but sometimes I think that my hon. Amendment 43, page 7, line 7, leave out subsections (5) Friends—I say this with great respect to them—are not to (7). necessarily quite as conscious when considering such Clause stand part. issues about the direct impact of it all on the electorate, or about the degree of discretion that we are giving both Mr Cash: The amendments have been tabled by my to the European Union and to Ministers in implementing hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton- these sorts of provisions. Harris) and myself, as well as several other Members, What is the effect of article 352? I shall explain my including my hon. Friends the Members for Aldridge- concerns about the Bill in relation to that wide-ranging Brownhills (Mr Shepherd), for Harwich and North provision, and I shall quote from article 352. It is Essex (Mr Jenkin), for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) and important to set that out, as it is the framework for my for Northampton South (Mr Binley), and the right hon. general concern. Article 352 states: Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) of the Democratic “If action by the Union should prove necessary”— Unionist party. that is a big question; who says?— We are dealing with a very broad provision in the treaty known as article 352, which is generally described “within the framework of the policies defined in the Treaties”— as a flexibility clause but which has an ancient and which have an enormously wide ambit, including what controversial history. Even back in the 1970s, before I they involve, their purpose, nature and interpretation— came to the House, when I was practising law, I was “to attain one of the objectives set out in the Treaties, and the discussing a very controversial provision known as article Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, 308, and I shall tell hon. Members why. When, in our acting unanimously”— 357 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 358 that is important— approved by motion without amendment in each House “on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the of Parliament. I regard that as perfectly reasonable in consent of the European Parliament, shall adopt the appropriate the circumstances. So we have a process and an agreement. measures.” First, it has to be unanimous, then it comes to Parliament, The article continues: and then it has to be approved by Parliament because it “Where the measures in question are adopted by the Council affects people and it is so broad that restrictive control in accordance with a special legislative procedure, it shall also act needs to be kept over how the process operates in this unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after House. obtaining the consent of the European Parliament”— Subsection (5) provides not Ministers, though they have the right to determine “that an Act of Parliament would not be required for any Article 352 whether or not they will apply the unanimity rule. proposal which satisfies any of the exemptions listed in subsection (6).” There is then a provision stating that where subsidiarity According to the explanatory notes, the exemptions are arises, to “the Commission shall draw national Parliaments’ attention to proposals based on this Article.” “prevent…Acts of Parliament to approve measures which have been agreed in substance under previous measures using Article 352”. The article goes on to say that such measures shall not entail the harmonisation of member states’ laws or In those circumstances, a Minister has to lay a statement regulations where the treaties say that there should not before Parliament saying that the use of a flexibility be such harmonisation. Finally, it states—this is clause is for an exempt purpose, in which case parliamentary important—that the article cannot serve as a basis for approval is not required. This is where I have great attaining objectives relating to foreign and security policy, difficulty. The ambit of article 352 is such that it seems and it imposes certain restrictions consistent with limits that there are no exceptional circumstances in which the set out in article 40 of the Treaty on European Union. exemptions specified in subsection (6) should divest Parliament of the opportunity to approve. Basically, the That is what article 352 states. It is a very wide fundamental point that I seek to make is that those provision. It is certainly subject to unanimity by the provisions should be left out. Council. I therefore assume that my right hon. Friend the Minister will assure us that the veto would be used, As the debate proceeds, I hope that this point will were the existing treaties—wide and deep as they are become more obvious, because other amendments will and effective as they are on our constituents—to be give specific instances of the manner in which the amplified by the use of that extremely wide power. I arrangements would operate. I simply wanted to indicate should mention that a few years ago the European that I am not in favour of the exemption that the Scrutiny Committee went over to see the Commission Government are giving. Under subsection (6), the exempt and its legal advisers. We had a full report on the purposes include—some of the language is rather arcane— provision in question, which at that time described as “to extend a measure previously adopted under that Article to article 308. another member State or other country”. My amendments would knock out the provisions I am extremely concerned, for many reasons that I have that would enlarge the Government’s capacity to bypass—I already touched on and hope to come back to later, use this language carefully—the principles on which I where we say something will affect us as part of the EU assume Parliament would want to insist. Because of the only in certain circumstances. ambit of the measure, we should ensure that it is used as My worry, which permeates much of my concern tightly as possible. about the Bill, is about the cases in which someone might say, “Well, it affects only the eurozone, not us.” I 4.15 pm strongly believe that in such circumstances we must be At the moment, the article can be used only where the vigilant, because the eurozone does affect us and whatever existing treaties have not provided the necessary powers. we do will affect us. It seems to me that we should be Clause 8(1) provides that any one of the conditions in vigilant and ensure that parliamentary approval is needed subsections (3), (4) or (5) has to be satisfied in relation in circumstances where a measure has been adopted to an article 352 decision, but subsection (3) contains under the article and extended to another member state. the general rule, which is the one that I would insist on, I am issuing a general concern about the whole area. which is that the UK may not agree to a decision under Article 352 is very broad, as I think the Minister will this broad article unless the decision has been approved accept. I understand that it is subject to unanimity and by Act of Parliament. That is fundamental. Where that in limited circumstances there would be a case for there is this enormous expansion of power, fundamentally something short of an Act of Parliament, but I do not it should be done only where the decision has been think that there are circumstances, in the cases that I approved by Act of Parliament. I have no problem with have described and within the framework of those that whatever. exemptions, where it is so broad that Parliament should Subsection (4) provides for parliamentary approval effectively be bypassed. That is my main proposition, of urgent or emergency uses of the flexibility clause but there are other specific matters that colleagues will without the need for an Act of Parliament. The explanatory raise. notes say that this “has been used in the past for urgent or emergency uses, where Chris Heaton-Harris: I will be brief, Mr Evans. I had rapid EU action has been agreed but where there was no explicit quite a decent speech written on these amendments, but legal basis on which to base that action”, I want to move on to the meat of the justice and home and that certain sub-paragraphs stipulate affairs matters that we will discuss shortly. With regard “that the UK may agree to the adoption of a measure based on to clause 8, the Bill is a definite improvement on the Article 352 in urgent or emergency cases if” current situation, and I am pleased that the presumption 359 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 360
[Chris Heaton-Harris] Let me illustrate that point to the Committee. Sanctions have been the subject of article 352 measures in the is that an Act is required. My concern is about the past, but we now have article 215(2) of the Lisbon get-out clause, in clause 8, that my hon. Friend the treaty, which deals with measures to apply sanctions Member for Stone (Mr Cash) has just mentioned, according against natural or legal persons and groups of non-state to which the Minister can table a statement that certain entities. Similarly, articles 212 and 213 of the treaty on matters are exempt. the functioning of the European Union make provision Amendment 26 is not a blanket amendment that for measures of macro-economic assistance to third would require everything to have an Act, as would my countries—again a policy area for which, before Lisbon, hon. Friend’s amendment, because I understand that article 352 was used as the legal base. some things might need a lesser level of scrutiny in this Secondly, article 352 cannot be used as a basis for the place, but I am concerned about proposals that would adoption of provisions whose effect would in substance prolong the existing flexibility clause or extend it to be to amend the treaties without following the procedure another country. Those are the two areas that should be that they provide for that purpose. Thirdly, the article approved by an Act. I am happy to see other areas cannot be used to harmonise natural laws in cases approved by resolution in each House. The example where the treaties exclude such harmonisation. Fourthly, that my hon. Friend might have been searching for is the article cannot be used to obtain objectives pertaining that relating to balance of payments loaned to non-eurozone to the common foreign and security policy. member states in 2002 that came through such a flexibility clause, similar to the article 122 measures that we have Mr Cash: I understand exactly what the Minister just seen. That is the explanation for my amendment, says, but I am sure he will concede that that is all and I will be interested to hear the Minister’s response. without prejudice to the fact that the measure is an expansion of what is a very wide provision in itself. For example, on the point that he has just made, there is a Mr Lidington: I am grateful to my hon. Friends the self-amendment provision in the treaty. It is difficult in Members for Stone (Mr Cash) and for Daventry (Chris such debates to get right down to the nuts and bolts, but Heaton-Harris) for the courteous and logical way in basically this is a problem of an expanding treaty provision which they have set out their views and spoken to the that was widely construed and widely drafted in the first amendments. place. Clause 8 provides for the prior parliamentary approval of a decision by the Government to support future uses Mr Lidington: Given the history of the article’s use, I of article 352 of the treaty on the functioning of the do not blame my hon. Friend for being properly sceptical European Union through an Act of Parliament, subject and inquiring about how it might be used in future, but to certain defined exceptions. Article 352 can be used to the Lisbon treaty now sets out explicit and specific adopt measures in order to attain one of the EU’s treaty bases to govern policy areas and legislative measures objectives where the existing treaties have not provided that were previously the subject of article 352 authority, the specific legal base on which to do so. so it rules out the article’s future use to authorise The measures concerned are, as my hon. Friend the measures in those categories. Member for Stone acknowledged fairly, subject to the Despite the greater restrictions on the use of article 352, British veto, require unanimity among all member states and although it is not a ratchet clause under the definition and must remain within the confines of the EU’s objectives. that the Government have tried to apply consistently, Nevertheless, because of its enabling nature, the use of given its significance we have decided that its use should article 352 of TFEU has led in the past—quite be subject to greater parliamentary control. At the understandably, I happily concede—to concerns that it moment, as my hon. Friend acknowledges, its use is can be used to facilitate competence creep. It is an subject to the same parliamentary scrutiny as any other article in whose use the scrutiny Committees in both proposal for EU legislation, and the Bill makes it clear Houses have taken a great interest, and I am sure that that this Government do not believe that that is sufficient, that interest will continue. hence the inclusion of clause 9. The provisions will In responding to my hon. Friends, I will start by apply to proposals for which article 352 forms one part saying that the use of article 352 is now subject to much of the legal base and to proposals based on article 352 greater constraints than it was prior to the entry into exclusively. force of the Lisbon treaty. In particular, it must be read The article has been used in the past to authorise a in conjunction with declarations 41 and 42, annexed to range of important measures: to set up EU agencies that treaty. They set out four criteria that govern the such as the European Union Agency for Fundamental application of the article. First, article 352 Rights; to set up things such as a community civil “cannot serve as a basis for widening the scope of Union powers protection mechanism; and to enable member states to beyond the general framework created by the provisions of the work together to mitigate damage from natural or man- Treaties as a whole and, in particular, by those that define the made disasters. They were important decisions, and tasks and activities of the Union”. they exemplify exactly the sort of legislation that will It is also important to make the point that a fair number require an Act of Parliament under this Bill before the of those policy areas that in the past involved the use of United Kingdom is able to sign up to it. article 352 have now, in the Lisbon treaty, specific treaty I turn, however, to the exemptions. Where legislation bases of their own. That means that in future it will not based on article 352 is equivalent to a previous measure, be possible to bring forward measures on the basis of prolongs or renews an existing measure or extends a article 352, because an alternative, defined and specific previous measure in terms of its geographical scope, we legal base will exist. do not think it right to require an Act of Parliament in 361 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 362 order to agree to it—if the substance of the measure is parliamentary control over future decisions in the EU—not identical to a previously agreed measure. If it is not previous decisions that are being terminated. For those identical, the measure should none the less be subjected reasons, I urge my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry to parliamentary approval by Act of Parliament. Similarly, not to press the amendment. we do not judge that an Act of Parliament is an appropriate Amendments 43 and 53 seek to remove the exempt requirement if the legislation simply repeals existing purpose criteria from clause 8. The effect would be that measures or consolidates, without adding to, existing primary legislation would be required for every single measures made under that article. Any proposal for use of article 352. For the reasons I have outlined, I do legislation based on that article, even if the Government not judge that requiring primary legislation for each consider that it is covered by one of the exemptions, and every use of the article, including the repeal, would of course remain subject to the normal arrangements consolidation or extension of existing measures without for the scrutiny of EU legislation and the powers of the further EU action, is proportionate or necessary. I urge two scrutiny Committees. my hon. Friend the Member for Stone to seek leave to withdraw the amendment.
4.30 pm Mr Cash: I am happy to seek to withdraw the amendment It is worth noting that the use of article 352 for in the circumstances, without prejudice to my concerns legislative proposals will now also be subject to the about the matter. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the protocol on the application of the principles of subsidiarity amendment. and proportionality. I encourage the scrutiny Committees Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. to continue the work that they are doing on the use of Clause 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill. yellow and orange cards, because they might wish to take advantage of such opportunities in relation to measures under article 352. If a Minister intends to rely on any of the exemptions Clause 9 in the Bill, he is required by clause 8 to lay before Parliament a statement setting out his reasoning. Parliament APPROVAL REQUIRED IN CONNECTION WITH TITLE V OF and the public will be able to judge whether the proposal PART 3 OF TFEU in question really does fall under an exemption, to challenge the decision of the Minister, and, in the case Mr Clappison: I beg to move amendment 14, of Parliament, to override that decision. page 7, line 33, leave out from first ‘of’ to end of line 44 The three proposed amendments to clause 8 would and insert make substantive changes to the treatment of uses of ‘any existing or proposed measure under Title V of Part 3 of article 352 that do not require primary legislation under TFEU.’. the Bill. Amendment 26 would narrow the scope of the exempt purposes under which uses of the article can be The First Deputy Chairman: With this it will be agreed without primary legislation. It would remove the convenient to discuss the following: requirement for a Minister to make a statement to Amendment 27, page 7, line 33, leave out from ‘measure’ Parliament and replace it with a vote in both Houses. to end of line 44 and insert The consequence of the first change would be that only ‘presented to the Council pursuant to Title V of Part 3 of TFEU, uses of the article that were equivalent to a previous use apart from a notification in relation to a measure that, at the time or that consolidated previous uses of the article, which of the notification, would if adopted extend the powers of Eurojust themselves had been adopted in line with the provisions to include the initiation of criminal investigations.’. of the Bill, including through primary legislation, would Amendment 99, page 7, leave out lines 34 to 36. be considered exempt from the primary legislation Amendment 98, page 7, leave out lines 37 to 44. requirement. The consequence of the amendment, therefore, would be that Parliament would have to approve through Amendment 47, page 7, line 44, at end insert— primary legislation a number of uses of article 352 that ‘(d) the provision of Article 83(2) of TFEU (harmonisation it had already considered. It does not seem sensible to of criminal offences and sanctions) that permits the legislate on issues whose substance Parliament has already establishment by directive of minimum rules with considered and approved. regard to the definition of criminal offences and sanctions in an area subject to harmonisation measures The requirement for a positive vote in both Houses in by the same ordinary or special legislative procedure place of a Minister’s statement would, again, place as was followed for the adoption of the harmonisation significant demands on Parliament’s time. Such proposals measures in question.’. are already subject to the requirements of parliamentary Amendment 28, page 8, line 1, at end insert— scrutiny. If the scrutiny Committees thought it necessary, they could recommend that the question of whether ‘(3A) Subject to subsection (3B), a Minister of the Crown may not vote in favour of or otherwise support a decision under such a proposal was exempt be subjected to debate. Article 4 of the Schengen Protocol that would cause the United That debate would be on a motion that could be amended, Kingdom to participate in further provisions of the Schengen so Parliament would be able to express its view of the acquis, unless a Minister of the Crown has given an oral statement Minister’s judgment. to the Chamber of the House of Commons on Her Majesty’s Amendment 26 would also mean that both Houses Government’s intention to support the draft decision. would have to approve the repeal of an existing article 352 (3B) Subsection (3A) does not apply to a decision that falls measure. Providing for a vote on the repeal of European under section 6(4)(k). Union legislation is not in-keeping with the overall (3C) In subsection (3A), “the Schengen Protocol” has the objective of the Bill, which is to enhance public and same meaning as that given in section 6(5).’. 363 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 364
Amendment 29, page 8, line 1, at end insert— (8) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2), with references to a decision being read for the purposes of ‘(3D) A Minister of the Crown may not permit the United subsection (7) as references to a notification. Kingdom’s participation in the final adoption of a measure building upon the Schengen acquis unless a Minister of the (9) Subsection (7) applies to the following— Crown has given an oral statement to the Chamber of the House (a) a measure adopted under Article 81(3) of TFEU of Commons on Her Majesty’s Government’s intention that the (family law) that determines those aspects of family United Kingdom will participate in final adoption of the law with cross-border implications that may be measure.’. subject to the ordinary legislative procedure; Amendment 30, page 8, line 3, leave out from ‘under’ (b) a measure adopted under Article 82(2)(d) of TFEU to end of line 5 and insert (minimum rules on criminal procedure) that ‘any of the following unless the draft decision has been identifies a futher specific aspect or aspects of approved by Act of Parliament— criminal procedure to which directives adopted under the ordinary legislative procedure may relate; and (a) the provision of Article 77(3) of TFEU that permits the adoption of provisions concerning passports, (c) a measure adopted under Article 83(1) of TFEU identity cards, residence permits or any other such (particularly serious crime with a cross-border document; dimension) that identifies a further area or areas of crime to which directives adopted under the ordinary (b) the provision of Article 81(3) of TFEU that permits legislative procedure may relate.’. the adoption of measures concerning family law with cross-border implications through a special Amendment 39, page 8, line 16, at end add— legislative procedure; ‘(7) In addition to the approval required in accordance with (c) the provision of Article 87(3) of TFEU that permits subsection (1) or (4), as the case may be, a Minister of the Crown the adoption of measures concerning operational may not give a notification under Article 3 or 4 of the AFSJ co-operation between the authorities referred to in Protocol that the United Kingdom wishes to take part in the Article 87 of TFEU; adoption and application of a measure, or to accept a measure, (d) the provision of Article 89 of TFEU on the operation to which this subsection applies unless— of certain competent authorities of a member State (a) the previous decision by virtue of which that measure in the territory of another member State.’. is proposed or was established has been approved by Amendment 31, page 8, line 7, leave out from ‘measure’ Act of Parliament; and to end of line 16 and insert (b) the referendum condition in relation to that previous decision has been met. ‘unless the notification in respect of the measure has been approved by Act of Parliament; but this provision shall not apply (8) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2), to a notification in relation to— with references to a decision being read for the purposes of subsection (7) as references to a previous decision. (a) a measure extending the powers of Eurojust to include the initiation of criminal investigations; (9) Subsection (7) applies to a measure proposed or established (b) a measure adopted under Article 81(3) of TFEU under Article 82(2) or 83(1) of TFEU by virtue of either— (family law) that determines those aspects of family (a) a previous decision, in which the United Kingdom law with cross-border implications that may be does not participate, adopted under Article 82(2)(d) subject to the ordinary legislative procedure; of TFEU that identifies a further specific aspect or (c) a measure adopted under Article 82(2)(d) of TFEU aspects of criminal procedure to which directives (minimum rules on criminal procedure) that adopted under the ordinary legislative procedure may identifies a further specific aspect or aspects of relate; criminal procedure to which directives adopted under (b) a previous decision, in which the United Kingdom the ordinary legislative procedure may relate; does not participate, adopted under Article 83(1) of (d) a measure adopted under Article 83(1) of TFEU TFEU that identifies a further area or areas of crime (particularly serious crime with a cross-border to which directives adopted under the ordinary dimension) that identifies a further area or areas of legislative procedure may relate.’. crime to which directives adopted under the ordinary New clause 5—Approval required in connection with legislative procedure may relate.’. Title V— Amendment 34, page 8, line 16, at end add— ‘(1) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification to ‘(7) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification under which this subsection applies unless Parliamentary approval has Article 3 or 4 of the AFSJ Protocol that the United Kingdom been given in accordance with subsection (3). wishes to take part in the adoption and application of a measure, (2) Subsection (1) applies in relation to a notification under or to accept a measure, to which this subsection applies unless— Article 3 of Protocol (No. 21) on the position of the United (a) the notification is approved by Act of Parliament; and Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security (b) the referendum condition is met. and justice annexed to TEU and TFEU (the “AFSJ Protocol”) and Article 4 of the Protocol integrating the Schengen acquis (8) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2), that the United Kingdom wishes to take part in the adoption and with references to a decision being read for the purposes of application of any measure proposed under Title V. subsection (7) as references to a notification. (3) Parliamentary approval is given if— (9) Subsection (7) applies to a measure that includes, at the time of notification by a Minister of the Crown under Article 3 (a) in each House of Parliament a Minister of the Crown or 4 of the AFSJ Protocol, the extension of the powers of moves a motion that the House approves Her Eurojust to include the initiation of criminal investigations.’. Majesty’s Government’s intention to give notification in respect of a specified measure, and Amendment 35, page 8, line 16, at end add— (b) each House agrees to the motion without amendment. ‘(7) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification under Article 4 of the AFSJ Protocol that the United Kingdom wishes (4) Despite any Parliamentary approval given for the purposes to accept a measure to which this subsection applies unless— of subsection (1), a Minister may not vote in favour of or otherwise support a decision under a provision falling within (a) the notification is approved by Act of Parliament; and Title V unless the draft decision is approved by Act of (b) the referendum condition is met. Parliament. 365 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 366
(5) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification under of the provisions that we have opted in to since the Article 4 of the AFSJ Protocol that the United Kingdom wishes present Government came to power would have been to accept a measure unless the notification in respect of the covered by the procedures in clause 9. I fully accept that measure has been approved by Act of Parliament.’. those procedures are an improvement on the current situation, but I should like to know how well they cover Mr Clappison: We come to a new subject area, that of the ground. freedom, security and justice, which used to be known as the judicial and home affairs pillar of the EU. As the As the hon. Lady said, some of the opt-ins have been clause stands, it would require parliamentary approval significant. I wish to mention two in particular—they for a UK decision to opt in to certain provisions in the were debated a little yesterday, so I will not take the area of freedom, security and justice. At the moment, as Committee over the same ground. They are the European I am sure the Committee knows, the UK enjoys an investigation order, which received practically no scrutiny opt-out in that area. Were a decision to be taken to opt in the House and on which we had no opportunity for a in to one of the matters specified in clause 9, parliamentary vote, and the draft directive on the right to information, approval would therefore be needed. which was also very important. We had a little more scrutiny of it, but no real opportunity for a vote unless Three such matters are specified in clause 9(2). Generally, one was prepared to trigger a deferred Division. they seem to cover further developments in the field that are not specifically set out in the freedom, security Under successive Governments, the UK has been and justice chapter, which is chapter 5 of the treaty of very careful and vigilant about permitting the EU to Lisbon. I should say that that is a lengthy chapter deal with the so-called area of freedom, security and containing many matters. I think I can see the Government’s justice, which is dealt with in clause 9. That goes back to thinking, which is to cover further developments in pre-Maastricht days, when such matters were dealt with European law and new ideas in the field of family law, on the basis first of informal co-operation, and then of criminal procedure and serious crime. I agree with that slightly more formal co-operation, between Home Affairs thinking, as far as it goes, because it means that opt-ins Ministers. They were not dealt with as part of the on those matters will require parliamentary approval. treaties or Community institutions—Home Affairs Ministers simply met to co-operate as such. It should be said straight away that that is an improvement on the current situation, in which there is The Maastricht treaty put that on a more formal no requirement for approval of any of the important basis with what was described as the justice and home matters specified in the clause. There will therefore be affairs pillar, which was the third pillar of the treaty. additional protection, if one wants to look at it that The first pillar was the old matters within the treaty—the way, and there will certainly be an additional role for single market, fisheries and agricultural policy, and all the House, which will be required to give its approval the rest of it—and the second was common foreign before the UK can opt in. security policy. One or two hon. Members who are in the Chamber My amendment 14 would take matters further in a now were in the House at the time of that treaty, and logical way, by making any chapter 5 opt-in subject to there was much debate on the justice and home affairs the same parliamentary approval that is required for the pillar. We were assured—I remember being given a three matters specified in the Bill. solemn assurance by an authoritative figure in the Government of the time—that the treaty settled the Ms Gisela Stuart: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? problem as far as justice and home affairs were concerned, that we need not worry about home affairs coming Mr Clappison: I certainly give way to the hon. Lady, within the purview of the Community method and who I know has an interest in these matters. Community institutions, and that they were being kept separate. The same applied to the common foreign Ms Stuart: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for security policy. The implication was that the pillars in giving way and for tabling the amendment. Does he the treaty would stand for ever, and that they were all share my sadness that since May 2010, the Government the protection and assurance we needed. I am reluctant have opted in to eight such provisions, including on to say this but I have heard similar claims in respect of such matters as the European investigation order, a new many other so-called safeguards since then, including in IT agency and a new crime and immigration database the course of this debate. that will cost ¤113 million to set up, without the House having had any say in the decision? Mr Cash: Does the word “lie” crop up in that context?
Mr Clappison: The hon. Lady has updated my Mr Clappison: I am afraid that I was credulous. We information, which only goes as far as 30 November, by were perhaps willing to believe and wanted to believe which point there had been six opt-ins. There have what we were told. We knew that it was right for the UK therefore been another two since, and they are coming not to come within such matters in the EU so that we along all the time. We heard evidence in the European did not gradually integrate into a superstate or a federal Scrutiny Committee that 30 or 40 such opt-ins were due united states of Europe. Many are still worried about to take place. The EU has an ambitious programme in that and we wanted to avoid it, and we thought the that regard—that is not an expression of opinion; it has pillars were the answer. admitted it. I shall deal with that later. The hon. Lady is absolutely right that some of the Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): One additional opt-ins are on important points, and I shall come to one safeguard that was introduced in the Lisbon treaty is or two of them that I experienced under the previous emergency brake clauses, which can be initiated within procedure. I should like to ask the Minister how many six months. They need not even be initiated by the 367 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 368
[Martin Horwood] possibly the only one—is the opt-out. When one surveys the history of this country’s participation in the EU, the Executive; a national Parliament can do so. What is to areas in which people take most satisfaction are those prevent the European Scrutiny Committee from doing from which we opted out, foremost among which is the what it says on the can, scrutinising those things, and single European currency. Some people say that that initiating a debate and the process that might engage was one of the greatest achievements of our European the emergency brake clauses? They are a fundamental policy. All the things that we have gone along with are check and balance. the subject of great dissatisfaction.
Mr Clappison: My humble amendment 14 proposes Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I apologise for only that the House should have a vote on such matters. missing the start of the hon. Gentleman’s speech. I The hon. Gentleman implied yesterday that he agreed agree with what he says about opt-outs. Would it not be with that. I will turn in more detail to my amendment in to the advantage of the British people if we could also a moment, but to dispose of his point, I have been told opt out of, for example, the common fisheries policy? so many times in the House when we have made a concession to the EU, or agreed to further integration, Mr Clappison: My constituency does not have a the granting of competence or additional powers, or fishing port, but my understanding is that there are no changes in its institutional arrangements, “Don’t worry. demonstrations in favour of the CFP in fishing ports. We are putting safeguards in place.” At the time of Maastricht, that meant the pillar structure. We were then told about subsidiarity, and we now have orange Ms Gisela Stuart: I confirm that people in Edgbaston and yellow cards and emergency brakes, but no one has also do not talk much about fishing policy. come anywhere near using those devices. We have had The reason why the hon. Gentleman’s amendment is subsidiarity for 18 years, and the only time that it was so important is that it goes to the heart of the contradiction. used that I have been told about is in respect of the zoo We are told that the EU is a political construct in which directive. the Union has only those powers that member states have decided to give it, but when we raise questions we Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): are told that there are safeguards, which actually shows I remember being told in the early 1990s that enlargement that that is not quite how it works. Proportionality and would have a decentralising effect on the EU, and that subsidiarity have not worked—only the opt-out contains the increase in the number of net payers to the EU the powers, and that is why it is so important. budget would create downward pressure on it. The history of our relationship with the EU is littered with Mr Clappison: That is why the opt-out is so very complacent and wishful ministerial assertions on what important, and that point brings me to the subject of will happen as a result of Government actions and this amendment. agreements in the EU. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Mr David: The hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) made an indirect reference to the opt-in by the Government 4.45 pm on the European investigation order. The Government Mr Clappison: Notwithstanding all the assurances, provided the reason—some might that think that it was such as the ones that we just heard from the hon. an excuse—but it could not be scrutinised by the Scrutiny Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), about the Committee here or in the other place because of the safeguards that are in place and despite all that we have general election. If the political will had been there, been told over the years, under the treaty of Lisbon would it not have been possible to have at least informal judicial and home affairs were planted fairly and squarely consultation with leading members of the outgoing in the Community institutions and method, under what Committee, so that the Government had an indication was the old first pillar, and subject to the ECJ and all of informed Back-Bench opinion on the issue? the other EU institutions. Mr Clappison: During the period that the hon. Mr Cash: The hon. Member for Cheltenham mentioned Gentleman’s party was in office, we tried informal the European Scrutiny Committee, so may I say that the consultations, formal consultations and many other investigative order is still subject to scrutiny? He may be forms of consultation, and we did not get very far. To assured that we will follow every step, but we have no be fair to Ministers, this clause is a step forward and confidence in that part of the coalition that voted for all improves on the position that they inherited. I am these arrangements under the Lisbon treaty—by that, I trying to go just a little further than that, because this is do not mean the Scrutiny Committee because I am such an important issue. I seem to remember that we talking about myself. were told that the opt-out on justice, freedom and Mr Clappison: To be fair to the hon. Member for security was one of the differences between the defunct Cheltenham, he has an honourable and consistent approach constitutional treaty and the treaty of Lisbon—that the to these matters which has a lot of appeal in the UK had an opt-out. That was given as one reason why country. He is in favour of a more integrated Europe we did not require a referendum. and of expanding the competences of the EU in I also seem to recollect—I will be corrected if I am co-operation with Europe. That is an honourable point wrong—that justice and home affairs were described as of view to take. I take a slightly different view, but I one of the then Government’s “red lines” when they respect him for his views. However, I would point out to were negotiating the treaty of Lisbon. The former Prime him that of all the safeguards that have been mentioned, Minister, Tony Blair, said that he was not prepared to the one that seems to have been most satisfactory—it is cross those red lines. The opt-out was one of those red 369 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 370 lines, so if the present Government opt in to those arrangements that were made for new opt-ins, as well as areas, we will have crossed those red lines. That illustrates the existing opt-ins to the former judicial and home how important the issue is. However, I give credit to my affairs pillar, where we face financial penalties. One right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front Bench, because cannot be said to be exercising a free choice if one faces they are taking it very seriously indeed. They have made a financial penalty for not going along with something. a lot of progress, but we are not talking about something More importantly, we are also submitting ourselves over which, like it or not, the European Union has to the European Court of Justice. In debates on previous competence, because it does not. That is the important groups of amendments we heard some good examples point. of what can happen with competence creep under the We have opted out. We can sit back. We do not need old article 308. However, competence creep can also to do anything as far as those matters are concerned. come about, as it has done, through the European We are not in a position, which we would be in if we had Court of Justice exercising its jurisdiction. We are not opted out—that is, if we had ordinary membership voluntarily submitting ourselves to that jurisdiction, and were involved in ordinary participation—where we and that does not apply only to cross-border matters, could be outvoted on qualified majority voting; nor, if which is the pretence. Rather, we are submitting to the something was subject to unanimity, would we face European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction in every element being in the possibly invidious position of being the of criminal law and civil law, and in all our courts across only ones objecting to it, thereby holding up all the the country, if we opt in to matters that govern those other members and preventing them from doing something elements. that they wanted to do. Those considerations do not We sometimes complain about the lack of transparency arise. We have opted out of those matters, and there is in EU decision making, but to be fair to the European no pressure on us to opt in to them. Opting in would be Union there is no lack of transparency about its ambitions. a voluntary decision on our part, and would mean I believe that one of its ambitions is to build an area of choosing to submit ourselves to the institutions of the freedom, security and justice; I disagree with the hon. European Union—the Community method and the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) on that. In jurisdiction of the European Court—and to abnegate President Barroso’s state of the Union address last self-government for this country on those matters. autumn—he has one as well as President Obama now—he said that it was the European Union’s third top priority Martin Horwood rose— to build such an area. That is also in the treaty of Lisbon. We can expect to see many proposals on European Mr Clappison: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, contract law and many other issues in the coming year but I want to make a bit of progress. or so, and we shall have to decide whether to opt in to Martin Horwood: The hon. Gentleman is being extremely them or not. The proposals that my hon. Friend the generous in giving way. He is extolling the virtue of Member for Stone (Mr Cash) and others have put in opt-outs, as opposed to using emergency brake clauses, place would be of great assistance when those matters which are designed to provide a safeguard against the come before the House for consideration. opt-in procedure. However, to put the boot on the other I commend the interest and commitment of my right foot, has he or any of his hon. Friends ever attempted to hon. and hon. Friends on the Front Bench on this issue. initiate any of the brake clauses, which, as I have said, is They have recognised that it is a problem, and set out to in the hands of national Parliaments, not Governments? deal with it in a much better way than it has ever been If not, what is his real complaint? dealt with before. We now have clause 9. In addition, a written ministerial statement was made last week. It did Mr Clappison: Why should we want to opt in to not go quite as far as I would have wished, but I have a something and then apply the emergency brake? I do lot of wishes in that regard. It represented a significant not understand the thinking on that. If we opted in, improvement, however, and we have been promised a that would presumably be because we saw some virtue substantive vote when there is interest in these substantial in doing so and would not want immediately to put our matters in the House, to enable hon. Members to express foot on the brake. However, the hon. Gentleman has an their approval. There is still a question of who decides honourable position on this issue. I have a completely which matters are of great interest, but this is at least a different view: I want our criminal and civil law to be step forward. made in this country, I want the people of this country I hope that time will be found and that we will have to exercise self-government over themselves, and I want those votes, because it is very much in the interest of the them to be able to change Governments by exercising Government and the House that they take place. I urge their votes. They would not be able to do any of that if my right hon. and hon. Friends not to exercise the we had opted in, because then we would be submitting legislative override but to permit a full debate on these ourselves voluntarily to European government, as opposed matters on a substantive motion, preferably on the to democratic self-government in this country. There is Floor of the House, with a vote at the end of it. They therefore a fundamental difference between us. have promised to discuss these matters with the European It is significant if we decide to opt in because once we Scrutiny Committee and its Chairman, my hon. Friend have done so, we could become subject to amendments the Member for Stone—I know that he stands ready to on the same matters. Although we would have an opt-in help in those discussions—and to facilitate debates and on those as well, we would none the less be under a votes taking place in the House. great deal of pressure, facing the prospect of financial I am sure that constructive discussions will take place penalties, were we not to opt in to any proposals that on how this can be arranged, and on how we can came along. We took a lot of evidence in the European improve our scrutiny of these matters. I know that Scrutiny Committee on that issue from the former Ministers take their responsibilities very seriously, and I Home Secretary, particularly about the unsatisfactory hope that they will take from this the message that, 371 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 372
[Mr Clappison] Several hon. Members rose— while we regard all scrutiny as important, it is particularly The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel important in regard to the opt-ins that would bring us Evans): Order. I remind the Committee that there will within the purview of European Union institutions for be no separate clause 9 stand part debate. If anyone the first time. It is especially important that we should wishes to make any comments relevant to that, now is have debates and votes on them, and that Ministers the time to do so. should listen to the messages that they receive. They Chris Heaton-Harris: I shall speak mainly to the should consult members of the European Scrutiny amendments I have tabled, talk about the general opt-ins Committee and listen to what they are told, and we and ask a couple of questions about the written ministerial should proceed on that basis. statement that was issued last Thursday, particularly on I would prefer us not to opt in to any of these things. how aspects of it might work in the future. I always have I would prefer us to exercise the opt-out, but we are questions about the who and when of decision taking. where we are. If we are going to have the possibility of My amendment 27 deals with something that is missing opt-ins, it is preferable that we have a proper debate and from the Bill—the body known as Eurojust. Eurojust is a proper vote on the Floor of the House of Commons, not the European public prosecutor, but it represents a rather than some of the procedures that we have gone massive step towards a European public prosecutor. through in the past which, despite the diligence and Under article 85 of TFEU, its remit falls under ordinary hard work of the European Scrutiny Committee, did legislative procedure, so a proposal comes from the not really amount to what our constituents would regard Commission, qualified majority voting applies in the as proper scrutiny, because of the restrictions involved. Council and co-decision applies within the European I am relying on my right hon. and hon. Friends on Parliament. It already has a huge amount of power—or the Front Bench to make good their words, as I am sure it will have, when it is set up. that they will wish to do, about further improvements to In April 2010, the European Commission published a the parliamentary scrutiny of these matters. I shall not document delivering press my amendment to a vote, but I look forward to “an area of freedom, security and justice for Europe’s citizens”, discussions taking place so that we can build on the which was an action plan implementing the Stockholm improved system that is being put in place to create a programme. The Stockholm programme is the five-year much better system of parliamentary scrutiny. European Union plan for justice and home affairs measures, which was adopted by the European Council 5pm in December 2009. On page 18 of the document, the Mr David: I would like to say a few additional words European Commission states that in 2012, it will make about clause 9, which follows on directly from what has a proposal for an EU regulation been said. I do not want to repeat what I said earlier, but “giving Eurojust powers to directly initiate investigations.” I hope that the Minister will respond to the points I Even if the current Government do not opt into the raised earlier about the clause. Unfortunately, he simply proposal, there is nothing in the Bill to require them to dismissed my earlier question about the advocates-general. seek Parliament’s or the people’s approval to opt in We are in Committee and we have every right to expect once the regulation is adopted, allowing Eurojust to proper and considered responses from the Minister. initiate investigations in the UK, for example. This is a As the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) massive step towards the European public prosecutor. I said, this is an important issue. It has in the past been a hope the Minister will reassure me that he will address red line in terms of the negotiations, and the opt-ins that point at some stage, if not today. that are possible in the not-too-distant future should at It may be useful if I provide some examples of the very least be subject to proper debate and parliamentary significant justice and home affairs matters that the last scrutiny. That is absolutely correct. What I am concerned Government opted into. I could have picked any issue in about, to return to a point I made earlier, is the apparent that category, but I chose the issue of asylum because I illogicality of the Bill. If, by common agreement, this is know that it always gets the blood flowing. an important area, surely there should be careful Among other things, directive 2004/83-EC consideration of whether or not there should be a “on minimum standards for the qualification and status of third referendum on this subject. country nationals or stateless persons as refugees or as persons I am not arguing the case for having referendums who otherwise need international protection and the content of generally—as I said in the debate a couple of days ago, the protection granted” there are profound conceptual problems in having a sets out the rights enjoyed by those who have been multiplicity of referendums—but I believe this is an granted refugee status. Some of them go beyond the important issue. If the Government claim to be producing rights approved for the 1951 Geneva convention on a piece of legislation that is logical, coherent and systematic, refugees, such as those relating to access to the employment I would like to know their argument for not having a market and social security. referendum on these opt-ins. Directive 2003/9/EC, Stemming from that, the Minister has made it abundantly “laying down minimum standards for the reception of asylum clear—he made it very clear last night—that the seekers”, Government will not contemplate holding a referendum includes provisions on the rights of asylum seekers to until 2015 at the earliest, but the issue of these JHA—justice access the jobs market in certain circumstances, and on and home affairs—opt-ins will come to the fore in the the accommodation that must be offered to them. next few years. It is therefore important to have a proper Directive 2005/85/EC response from the Government, so the Minister should “on minimum standards on procedures in Member States for the at the very least attempt to justify his position. granting and withdrawing of refugee status” 373 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 374 lays down various restrictions and requirements regarding already adopted by the other member states? The written the procedures that member states can follow in processing ministerial statement seemed to indicate otherwise. Similarly, asylum claims and withdrawing refugee status. They does the commitment cover the opt-in to new aspects of include specific requirements for the possibility of legal the existing Schengen acquis, such as common visa challenge by asylum seekers to various decisions taken rules, where this opt-in is not covered by clause 6 of the as part of the process. Bill? Would it cover the opt-in to a pre-Lisbon police Those pieces of legislation were part of the first wave and criminal justice law that has ceased to apply to the of the construction of the common European asylum UK because it exercised the bloc opt-out before June 2014? system that was first called for in the Tampere European If it does cover that, how would Parliament be made Council of October 1999. The Commission has been aware that such an opt-in was being considered by the pressing on with further legislation to build that common Government, given that this could happen at any time? system since then, and over the past two years it has presented three proposals for directives to replace those Ms Gisela Stuart: I hope that the hon. Gentleman that I have cited. The general thrust of the proposals is will tell me if I say something that is incorrect, because I a desire to further “harmonise” asylum policy and have not had sight of that written ministerial statement. processes across the EU and, as a consequence, to limit We know that whenever we negotiate an opt-out in national discretion yet further. As it happens, the last Brussels we spend political capital so, by definition, Government decided not to opt into those later proposals; anything that we negotiate to opt out of is significant but what would happen if this Government, or a future and an opt-in is a significant step. So any opt-in ought Government, chose to opt into them? It is realistic to to be debated in Parliament and subject to a substantive assume that, under the Bill, Parliament would have no vote because it must have been so important that we legal control. expended political capital securing it. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere Chris Heaton-Harris: I tend to agree with the hon. (Mr Clappison) that the Bill constitutes a step forward Lady. When she reads the written ministerial statement, in one respect, and I congratulate the Minister on she will see that it represents a huge step forward in our advancing so far. The written ministerial statement on scrutiny of these things in this place and she may see justice and home affairs scrutiny laid before the House what measures the Government might want to opt into. last Thursday contains a great deal of common sense, I wished to raise this question of the opt-in now, because but I think that there is a need for further discussion of I think that the Bill is a step forward, as is this clause. the consequences that will flow from it with the European Scrutiny Committee and other interested parliamentarians. Martin Horwood: I was interested by the intervention Let me quote the key passage. It states that made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston “in circumstances where there is particularly strong parliamentary (Ms Stuart). She has great knowledge of European interest in the Government’s decision on whether or not to opt in matters, but she may be wrong about this. Not everything to such a measure, the Government express their willingness to set aside Government time for a debate in both Houses on the basis that we are talking about opting into based on these of a motion on the Government’s recommended approach on the passerelles has been positively opted out of before. We opt-in. The precise details of these arrangements to allow such are talking about new ways of working within the debates and the circumstances in which Government time would competences already set out in those passerelles. be set aside will be the subject of further consultation with the European Scrutiny Committees, business managers” Chris Heaton-Harris: That is possibly the case. I do —otherwise known as the wonderful Whips who are so not wish to give a definite answer, because I am not the kind and gentle to us all in this place— expert on this matter and I was just raising it for the “and the Commons and Lords Home Affairs and Justice Select Committee in general debate. I am not sure that what Committees. These discussions will also need to determine how the hon. Gentleman describes is the case, but I would arrangements would operate during periods of parliamentary hate to say that he is wrong because, as my hon. Friend recess and dissolution of Parliament.” the Member for Hertsmere said, although we might That is all pretty good. have different views, the factual statements that the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) has made “However, the Government believe that as a general rule, it have invariably been correct. would be appropriate to do so in circumstances where they propose to opt in to a measure which would have a substantial impact on the United Kingdom’s criminal or civil law, our national Mr Clappison: The opt-in arrangements are found in security, civil liberties or immigration policy. The Government the “Protocol on the position of the UK and Ireland in will also put in place analogous arrangements for parliamentary respect of the area of freedom, security and justice”. scrutiny of decisions to opt-out of measures under the Schengen This is in the Lisbon treaty itself and as far as those protocol.”—[Official Report, 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 52WS.] matters are concerned we have to opt in. The written ministerial statement raises a number of questions. I shall talk about a couple of them now, but I Chris Heaton-Harris: I am looking forward to the would like to think that discussions can be ongoing and Minister clarifying that for us all. I was discussing the we can flesh out the detail. What would constitute questions about the written ministerial statement where “particularly strong parliamentary interest”? How, therefore, we need things fleshed out. This Government commitment is a debate in Government time triggered? Would it be does not require the Government to come before Parliament triggered by a referral by the European Scrutiny Committee? to get approval for each of their decisions to opt in, That could be complemented by an additional right which is what the amendments would entail. Although whereby a certain number of MPs could trigger such a the current Government might give this commitment, it debate. Does the commitment to a debate and vote may not apply in the future, whereas a requirement in cover the opt-in to a justice and home affairs law statute, rather than something in a written ministerial 375 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 376
[Chris Heaton-Harris] Brussels certainly has ambitions in that area and with those ambitions in mind I want to point out that there statement, would be expected to withstand the passage are disappointingly few decisions on JHA policy in the of time much better. There are a number of omissions Bill for which, although there is no referendum requirement, from the written ministerial statement. It does not deal parliamentary approval is required before the Government with the timing of the process and whether new proposals take a decision to opt in. For example, as I understand it are acted on in a different way, and the arrangements the decision to opt into the European investigation for opting into things that have already been adopted by order would not have required Parliament’s approval our EU partners causes me concern, because I am not under the Bill despite its ramifications for operational sure whether this process catches that. policing and the lack of safeguards for innocent British Those are all matters of conjecture and question, and citizens. Immigration and asylum policy is also left out they are ways in which we can altogether improve the despite the fact that the EU is currently proposing scrutiny of justice and home affairs opt-ins in the far-reaching changes in that very important area. future. I see the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David) I would be the first to accept that the British people nodding his head in agreement and I believe there is cannot have a referendum on every item of JHA policy, massive cross-party and cross-Parliament interest in but why cannot their elected representatives have a say getting this process right for the future. I do not see the on every opt-in to ensure proper democratic scrutiny? I issue as politically contentious. am very encouraged by the Minister’s written statement, I note the massive steps forward that have been made which I have looked at closely and which effectively with this Bill and in the written ministerial statement, so endorsed the principle of a parliamentary vote on JHA I shall not press my amendments to a vote either. I opt-ins. That is an important step forward and, as other thank the Minister for coming so far so fast and look Members have made clear, it is extremely welcome. As forward to working with him on this matter in the the statement made clear, such a provision would depend future. first on the discretion of the European Scrutiny Committee and its Chair to call a debate and table a motion. That is fine with the current Committee and Chair, but—if we 5.15 pm can possibly imagine this—if it were one day to have a Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): Thank less meticulous Chair or more integrationist members, you, Mr Evans, for calling me to speak in this debate on that check might be diluted. Secondly, the provision clause 9, which is one of the Bill’s key provisions. The would depend on the discretion of Ministers about treatment of justice and home affairs merits close scrutiny whether to make Government time available. in the Bill. The EU is increasingly seeking to broaden It would strengthen the Bill considerably if the and deepen its authority in this important area. We arrangements to which the Minister agrees in principle need only to consider the inception of the Stockholm could be spelt out in practice in legislation. I know programme, to which the previous Government signed many Members would welcome such a step. up, on policing, justice, asylum and borders. It is also illustrated—if further illustration were needed—by the There is an even more important issue to consider 13% budget increase for this policy area in this year’s than the individual opt-ins. Britain has to decide by EU budget, which is higher than that for any other area. June 2014 whether to accept European Court of Justice That is a sign of the ambition in Brussels to move bit by jurisdiction over police and justice measures that predate bit towards a pan-European legal system, at odds with the Lisbon treaty or, alternatively, to opt out altogether. our distinct history and tradition of justice reflected in After that date, the full body of pre-Lisbon legislation the common law, our safeguards for personal freedom will come under the control of the Luxembourg Court, and our adversarial court system. so this decision has enormous constitutional implications for our criminal justice system. It represents a unique Nick de Bois: My hon. Friend has touched on a opportunity for this country either to regain control of matter of great importance. I welcome the safeguards. our justice agenda or, if we so decide—let us not rule It seems to me that justice in other countries is very out this option—fully to embrace a pan-European model. different from justice in ours, principally on the basis of I am clear in my own mind that we should preserve our mutual recognition that many things are the same. It distinct justice system which is famous the world over. concerns me that we must keep as divorced as possible It guarantees our personal freedoms and defines the from the system in France, for example. Even a former British sense of fair play. French Justice Minister said, “The assumption here is Beyond the technical niceties of the Bill, something that one is innocent until one is proven guilty, but in bigger is at stake—from habeas corpus to the presumption reality, with our magistrates courts, it is the other way of innocence, which my hon. Friend the Member for around.” That will be difficult to reconcile and we must Enfield North (Nick de Bois) mentioned, or to free have very strong safeguards. speech, which is poorly protected in France and seems to be disappearing in Hungary but is still cherished in Mr Raab: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention Britain. These abstract legal concepts define our citizenship, and I agree entirely with him. We can already see an our identity, our culture and ultimately our way of life. I example of that in the European arrest warrant. We respect the fact that others may disagree on this; some have jumped in and we are now reviewing its domestic may wish to argue the merits of the Napoleonic legacy implementation and the potential for the international or the pros and cons of the continental civil law tradition, instrument. The presumption of innocence is just one while others may claim that a pan-European amalgam area, as my hon. Friend has suggested, where we have a might just get the best of both worlds. That is fair fundamental difference of legal cultures. I do not think enough, and those are perfectly respectable positions, that either party should show that any disrespect. but what is not acceptable is for that kind of decision on 377 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 378 a matter of that kind of magnitude to be quietly nodded I have become if not cynical, which would be an unfair through without the formal debate and approval of the word, at least uncertain about the consequences that House. I welcome the policy commitment in last week’s subsequent events may produce. written ministerial statement, but we need a commitment In other words, we do not get what it says on the tin, that the decision to opt in en bloc will be subject to or necessarily what we are told we are likely to get. I am parliamentary approval and not just a debate, and it very sceptical, not just Eurosceptic. I question not the would be relatively easy to do that in the Bill. honesty of individuals, but the accuracy of their predictions. To conclude, I support the aims of the Bill and much I therefore believe that this set of measures, as has been of its content. It has the potential, at least, to transform amply described by my hon. Friend the Member for the country’s relationship with Europe and to restore Hertsmere and others in this debate, is hugely important, some transparency and legitimacy to the much-shrouded although not more important than any of the other decision making in Brussels. provisions that are part of a continual stream of acquiescence in European integration. Mr Jenkin: In the next group of amendments we will discuss this same topic in relation to a possible Act of Where the provisions speak of not allowing measures Parliament or referendum. Will my hon. Friend reflect to go through by way of opt-in, by imposing the on the fact that it would be inconceivable that a Government requirement for some kind of parliamentary approval, I could implement such a dramatic change to our legal am well aware that we table amendments, we argue the system and our legal culture without a substantial Act, case, we have a European scrutiny process, we go through or several Acts, of Parliament? Is a resolution of the it in detail, it has been universally applauded by Ministers House enough to govern this Executive act—this stroke and people throughout the land— of the pen—by a Minister at a meeting of the Council of Ministers? Mr Jenkin: Except the BBC. Mr Raab: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention; his point is well made. Obviously, if we decided to opt Mr Cash: Except the BBC, as my hon. Friend says, in, legislation would be inevitable, but the question is because it has not given any attention to the legislation. whether or not we should opt in. That principle should The process has received a great deal of enthusiastic be subject not only to legislative scrutiny but to a debate support, except when it comes to the votes. For all the and a vote. flattering remarks made periodically about the members Kelvin Hopkins: Before the hon. Gentleman concludes, of the Committee and dedication and determination I want to support very strongly what he has been that they have applied, nothing happens. We do not get saying. An important factor of the British legal system any of our amendments through and the Chamber is is the fact that it has been imitated throughout the virtually empty. There is one assiduous Member on the Commonwealth. Many Commonwealth countries have Opposition Back Benches. I pay tribute to the hon. legal systems based on ours, and if we abandoned our Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart). She legal system in favour of a completely different system—a has the seat which, I think, used to be Birmingham, continental European system—that would break an Central in the 1880s. She was not around at the time, important link with the Commonwealth that we should but she is carrying forward a fine tradition of ensuring preserve. proper scrutiny. Her predecessors in that seat were assiduous in ensuring that the interests of the people of Mr Raab: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that Birmingham were well looked after. I pay tribute to her intervention and I agree. Indeed, senior members of the not only for the fact that she is here today on her own judiciary have said the same thing. The Lord Chief on the Opposition Back Benches, but that she is taking Justice recently gave a very informative speech saying an active part. that Britain no longer seems to be the champion of the common law. The ever-increasing move towards European Ms Gisela Stuart: I have no idea who held the seat in integration in this area undermines that. Any proposed the 19th century, but I am encouraged, on matters opt-in to justice and home affairs legislation, which European, that someone born near Munich now has goes to the very heart of our laws, liberties and way of Neville Chamberlain’s old seat. life, must first be subject to proper oversight by and the approval of the House. Mr Cash: That is an interesting insight. However, I Mr Cash: I congratulate my hon. Friends the Members shall not follow the hon. Lady down that route as it for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison), for Daventry (Chris would take me into area in which I have a great deal of Heaton-Harris) and for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) interest. The hon. Lady tempts me, but she will not on their speeches. succeed on this occasion. After 26 years of scrutinising treaties of one kind or I return to my concerns. I do not mean this as another, sometimes tabling as many as 120 or personal criticism of the Whips. They have a job to do. 140 amendments, debating them in detail and listening They are told what to do. It is part of a policy, and the to the arguments put forward by Government spokesmen, question is whether we want this set of provisions on who say, first, for example, that we have reached the family law, criminal procedure, serious crime with cross- high water mark, and then that the measure is not what border dimensions and so on to be implemented at all. some people fear, perhaps it is inevitable that I have The problem we have relates to a decision whether to developed a certain resistance to the assumption that opt in. We should not be contemplating it. That is the what we hear from the Front Bench will necessarily problem. With great respect to my hon. Friends, I am occur—I hope that is a nice way of putting it—and that not criticising; I am simply making a point. 379 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 380
5.30 pm parliamentary reform. We are being given the impression I am concerned that we might congratulate the that in relation to these matters we will be able to retain Government a little too much on their restraint in our criminal system, but unfortunately, because of the relation to giving approval by way of Act of Parliament Whip system and the whole direction of Europeanisation, or some motion, which, as my hon. Friend the Member that will be removed by what will happen in practice. As for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) said, really helpful as all these procedures are in indicating the amounts to no more than a resolution. After getting direction in which they might like to go in certain past what I call the pas de deux of the opt-in, we then circumstances, I fear that we will have many opt-ins and move downstream into the question of whether the that, in practice, the proposed procedures will be applied Whips would allow the vote to go the wrong way. We and the Whips will ensure that the measures go through. have already had the example of the opt-in in relation I will give the European investigation order as an to the investigative order. We know from my hon. example. It is still subject to European scrutiny and Friend the Member for Hertsmere that there are 40 such there will be a debate on it—I cannot remember when— opt-ins on the way. This is the Europeanisation of our despite the fact that it was decided on 15 June last year. criminal system— That is because the European Scrutiny Committee had not been set up by that time, but the rules still applied to Mr Clappison: And civil. that order. There will be a debate on that matter, but when it is debated, which in effect is the same kind of Mr Cash: —and civil. Let us not get carried away by a thing that the Minister refers to about parliamentary few bits of paper and a few words in a Bill. They say approval, up to a point, there will no doubt be a that there will be restraint by way of approvals given by take-note motion—I cannot remember the precise motion— the House, but we know the realities. In relation to the before the European Committee. The reality is that not opt-in on the investigative order—I think it was on once in the 26 years I have watched these matters has a 15 June, shortly after the general election—it can fairly decision of a European Committee not to take note, be said that the Minister believed that she had to make following a vote that went against a Minister, not been that decision because, I think I am right in saying, there reversed on the Floor of the House by the use of the was a three-month period within which the decision Whips. Why should I be confident that— had to be made. Perhaps there was some justification for the fact that she had to make the decision, but why Mr Clappison: My hon. Friend has made some powerful did she make the decision to opt in? Why did she not points that are entirely borne out by my much lesser make the decision not to opt in? That is my concern. experience of the European scrutiny system. In the case I plead with hon. Members not to be taken in by the of the European right to information order, which is effusions of reservation that emerge in letters, statements another opt-in, the most we can do is vote against it in and the Bill. Right at the heart of this is the real the relevant European Committee so that it comes back question of whether we will end up with more for a vote on the Floor of the House, but that is merely Europeanisation of these matters, and the answer, a deferred division on whether to take note of the emphatically, is yes. document. We do not have the opportunity to say no to the opt-in. Is that his experience? We must have that Chris Heaton-Harris: I am sure that my hon. Friend option in the future if the Minister is to make good the is aware of the findings of the German federal constitutional promise, made in the statement of 20 January, that we court, which protects these matters for that country. In will have the opportunity on a vote on the Floor of the one judgment it said: House to say no to an opt-in. “Securing legal peace by the administration of criminal law Mr Cash: That is such a good example. In fact, I was has always been a central duty of state authority…To what extent in that debate with my hon. Friend—I was unable to and in what areas a polity uses exactly the means of criminal law vote in the Committee but took part in the proceedings. as an instrument of social control is a fundamental decision. By criminal law, a legal community gives itself a code of conduct that The reality is that that is how the system works in is anchored in its values, whose violation is, according to the practice. This is about criminal law, but it is the same for shared convictions on law, regarded as so grievous and unacceptable everything else in the Bill. All the treaties, including all for social existence in the community that it requires punishment.” the laws, the entire encyclopaedia, all the work that is It is desperately trying to protects its laws as well. done in all the Departments and cross-departmental work—the whole country—are being run by a process Mr Cash: I am so glad to hear that. I was not of continuous European integration. The question is precisely aware of that part of the judgment, but my whether it is good for us or not. It is as simple as that, hon. Friend has made an important and helpful comment. and that is a matter for us to judge. The argument is right, and it is by dint of the most However, because of the way policy is made, and with awful experience in Germany that it has come to these the help of the coalition, we are told that the Government conclusions over an extended period since 1945. It is think it is good for us. I do not agree, and I think that vigilant about these matters because it does not want there are many other Members, and certainly many ever again to find itself in the circumstances in which it more people outside, who agree with what I have just found itself by virtue of a lack of democracy when said. Although the debates have been conducted with Hitler ran Germany. I have an absolute belief in the great courtesy and a great deal of substance on both democratic instincts and principles of the British people, sides of the argument, the real question is about what which have been born out of not only fighting that very has happened. The short answer is that the Bill will go Germany, but also previous wars, right the way back to through and that we will put up a fight again in another at least the 17th century. We have built up a democratic motion under the arrangements proposed in clause 9, system in which we decide what the legislation should but in practice the process I have described will continue be, and we give it careful consideration. We need some to happen. 381 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 382
Ms Stuart: At the risk of being accused of encouraging Let us think about what the harmonisation of criminal the hon. Gentleman, I must say that when Ministers are offences and sanctions affects and what its consequences terribly courteous it is usually an indication that we are are for the people whom we are elected to represent. If I not getting anywhere. The first rule of politics is that cannot win the vote on my desire to throw out the whole until they are rude, we are not getting anywhere. The measure, my minimum default position, however cynical real problem is that the UK Permanent Representative and unhappy I am about opt-ins anyway, is to attempt to the EU is politically unaccountable. My ultimate plea to include it in the arrangements that the Government is to have the UKRep stand here once a week, as the have provided. Deputy Prime Minister does, and be politically accountable Those are my thoughts on this group of amendments for the negotiations and deals that are done at Brussels. and on my amendments. If I sound a little concerned Until we have that, all this is— about them, I hope that Members will understand. As my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton said, The First Deputy Chairman: Order. The hon. Lady’s I see the provision under discussion as an enormous comments are going much wider than the amendments step. I am not sure that it is beneficial, because it currently before us. I believe that there is sufficient meat assumes that there will be opt-ins. There are 30 or 40 of in the amendments. them, and there have already been eight in the past few months. The trend exists, and I do not see anything holding back the tsunami. Indeed, I see the tsunami Mr Cash: I am grateful for that, Mr Evans, because being built up, and that is not in the interests of the otherwise the hon. Lady might have tempted me yet democratic principles by which this House is elected. again. She knows my soft point, and she knows very well that it would not take me long to get going on that Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): My hon. Friend the issue, either. But, she is right. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) is much concerned about I have tabled a number of amendments, but I do not Members from all parts of the House being under the intend to press them to a vote, because we have had a control of the Whips. For my part, I would like to say thoroughly good debate, and I, like my hon. Friend the how much I agree with— Member for Hertsmere, think that further consultation between the Minister, his officials, the European Scrutiny Nick de Bois: With the Whips. Committee and our Clerks might help to ensure that we get the maximum out of the provisions, even if they do Charlie Elphicke: With the Prime Minister. In particular, not really measure up. I agree with his speech on 4 November 2009, in which he said: In any case, we know what happens in our votes; we “We must be sure that the measures included in the Lisbon have watched them now for about a week. On one Treaty will not bring creeping control over our criminal justice occasion, we reached 45 genuine—as I call them— system by EU judges. We will want to prevent EU judges gaining abstentions. By the way, Mr Evans, your name appeared steadily greater control over our criminal justice system by negotiating on one list, but I said, “No, he’s Chairman of Ways and an arrangement which would protect it. That will mean limiting Means; this is not somebody you can count in.” Anyway, the European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction over criminal law to on parliamentary sovereignty we had between 45 and its pre-Lisbon level, and ensuring that only British authorities can initiate criminal investigations in Britain.” 50 such abstentions, which is quite a lot, but it is not anything like as many as the number of Members who I would like to put on the record how much I agree with rather agree with us in the broadest sense. I shall not go that position, and how much I agree with my hon. down that route, but what happens in votes is not very Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab). edifying. We do not win votes, because people are being Why are we discussing further opt-ins in this Committee, told to vote in a way that is inconsistent with what they when we should be considering how to recapture a sense think, and that is another democratic problem. of control and our national way of life in relation to the criminal justice system? Amendments 99 and 98 are mischievous, simply because they were tabled only to demonstrate my concern, which 5.45 pm I have just raised, that opt-ins should not be allowed under any circumstances. On amendment 47, however, I am particularly concerned that in evidence to the regarding the harmonisation of criminal offences and European Scrutiny Committee, the Minister said that sanctions, my hon. Friends the Members for Esher and there is a strict time limit of three months for our Walton, for Hertsmere and for Daventry are right. I am opt-in, and that that is what the protocol states. The reluctant to adopt a default position, but for the purposes written statement says: of debate I want to get out into the open something that “As currently, the Government will not override the scrutiny concerns me, because the harmonisation of criminal process unless an earlier opt-in decision is essential.” offences and sanctions, on which I dare say books could Presumably that relates to the three months. The statement be written, ought to be as restricted as possible. goes on: “Where the Government consider an early opt-in to be necessary, Article 83(2) of TFEU, as I state in amendment 47, it will explain its reasons to Parliament through the statement set “permits the establishment by directive of minimum rules with out above. In these circumstances, it would usually be appropriate regard to the definition of criminal offences and sanctions in an for the statement to be made orally.”—[Official Report, 20 January area subject to harmonisation measures by the same ordinary or 2011; Vol. 521, c. 52WS.] special legislative procedure as was followed for the adoption of That suggests that the statement could be a written the harmonisation measures in question.” statement. I am concerned, as are my constituents, In a nutshell, I should like that to be one of those about further Europeanisation of border control under measures—from the written statement to which the things like the Schengen agreement. Yes, that is subject Minister has referred—that ought to be discussed properly. to a referendum, but my constituents specifically do not 383 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 384 want to see further integration through Schengen and We have included in schedule 1 any move to change in the criminal justice system. I feel passionate about the basis of decision making under article 19(2) of the this matter. treaty on European union from unanimity to qualified I press the Minister to say in his response whether the majority voting, so that it would be caught by the three-month position is correct. I have taken the time to referendum lock. That article guarantees that there will read the protocol. It is true that article 3 of the protocol be one judge from each member state in both the states: general court and the Court of Justice of the European Union. It is important that we ensure that we continue “The United Kingdom or Ireland may notify the President of to have a veto, so that we can insist that there is a UK the Council in writing, within three months after a proposal or judge there. initiative has been presented to the Council pursuant to Title V of Part Three of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European That is important not just for the national interest Union, that it wishes to take part in the adoption and application”. but for the reason given by my hon. Friend the Member However, I am troubled by one thing, which I hope the for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) and others this evening. Minister will clarify. Article 4 states: Four EU member states have common-law jurisdictions, although our Scottish colleagues in the House might “The United Kingdom or Ireland may at any time after the argue that the UK is by no means entirely a common-law adoption of a measure by the Council pursuant to Title V of Part Three of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union jurisdiction. Those states are ourselves, Ireland, Cyprus notify its intention to the Council and to the Commission that it and Malta. For that reason, it is important to have a wishes to accept that measure.” suitable arrangement for taking decisions about the I would like the Minister to clarify why there is such a number of judges, and a requirement for each member crashing hurry on this matter, and whether there really state to nominate a judge, so that we can effectively has to be a crashing hurry. Is it because there has to be protect the representation of those four jurisdictions in negotiation in Europe, or for some other reason? the highest judicial councils of the EU. The hon. Member for Caerphilly will also find in I hope that the Government will give further article 19(2) a requirement for both judges and advocates- consideration to tightening up the statement and to general to be introducing measures on Report that would give further confidence that the House will have a say on these most “persons whose independence is beyond doubt”. sensitive of issues—the criminal justice system and the Again, that requirement deserves to be protected. I have control of our borders. This is one of the most central no reason to believe that the other member states would concerns of my constituents. I hope that Ministers will vote to dilute it, but the importance of the article ensure that we will have proper scrutiny of any such justifies the referendum lock. measures. In contrast, article 252 of the TFEU requires there to be eight advocates-general to advise the court. There is Mr Lidington: I am grateful to all hon. Members who not the same idea that there should be one from each have taken part in the debate, and in particular to my member state. The article states that unanimity is needed hon. Friends the Members for Daventry (Chris Heaton- in order to increase the number of advocates-general Harris) and for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) for their beyond eight, and a change to that article would be explanations of the contents of and the motives behind required for a switch to qualified majority voting. However, the amendments, and for their offer not to press them to I say to the hon. Gentleman that I believe the people the vote. whom we represent would find it slightly odd if we I say to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston invited them to participate in a national referendum on (Ms Stuart) that I will hold back my innate wish to be whether to raise the number of advocates-general or on aggressive to the point of rudeness towards her, and whether to change the method by which that decision is that I am happy to find an occasion to discuss with her taken. That is the reason for the distinction that we and interested Opposition Members the content of last draw in the Bill. Thursday’s written ministerial statement and how we My hon. Friend the Member for Daventry asked can take matters forward. It will be better for the about moves towards a common EU asylum system. reputation of the House, of governance in this country The British Government strongly believe in the importance and of how we as a Government and a Parliament of practical co-operation on asylum policy within the handle justice and home affairs coming from the EU if EU. Equally, we do not judge that a common EU there is the maximum possible agreement across the asylum policy is right for Britain. We believe that on political parties on a structure that we hope will then many issues, EU member states have much to gain by endure. working together, but we have made it clear that Before I move on to the amendments, I should like to the emphasis of the EU’s agenda on asylum should respond briefly to some of the points that have been not always be on legislation, but on helping member made that are more appropriate to a stand part debate. I states to improve the quality of their individual asylum turn first to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David). systems. As I am sure my hon. Friend knows, the UK I will not go on at him incessantly about this, but I has not opted into the reception conditions directive, found it strange that in a debate on so many amendments, the qualifications directive or the asylum procedures covering such a wide range of justice and home affairs directive. issues, he focused almost entirely on the contents of the My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) next group of amendments that we are due to debate asked about the European investigation order. My right and on the parliamentary lock that would be imposed hon. Friend the Home Secretary has set out very plainly on the number of advocates-general. I shall try to on more than one occasion her reasons for recommending satisfy him on that point. that the Government opt in to that measure. 385 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 386
Charlie Elphicke: May I just say how much I welcome and legal importance that would fully justify a full debate the strong policy on asylum? Asylum has been a substantial being held in Government time. With that debate would problem in my constituency of Dover, with masses of obviously come the opportunity of a parliamentary vote. would-be asylum seekers and economic migrants at Calais wanting to break into the country. Will the 6pm Minister tell the Committee more about how we will ensure our strength and independence on border security? Mr David: I have some sympathy in policy terms with the Government on the issue of the European investigation Mr Lidington: I do not want to be distracted from the order. But would it not have been possible to have had subject matter of the debate—clause 9 and the informal consultation with, let us say, the outgoing amendments—so the best thing is for me to tell my hon. Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee, rather than Friend that I will either write to him or ask my hon. having no consultation with Parliament at all? Friend the Minister for Immigration to do so in response to the point that he raises. Mr Lidington: I cannot recall without advice whether May I summarise the Government’s case in response the Committee had just been appointed but had not to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone? There have met, or whether it had not yet been constituted, but the been many criticisms of the current criminal mutual lesson that I draw from that episode—and the Government legal assistance system; it is said that it is fragmented, were far from happy with the fact that we had to take a confusing and subject to delays. In some cases, it takes decision at the end of the three-month period without a many months to obtain vital evidence, and when the formal scrutiny process—is that we have, in the forthcoming UK has been the requesting state, that has had a detrimental discussions, to find a way to address the real difficulty effect on UK investigations and trials. The EIO seeks to that arises during a dissolution of Parliament and the address those problems by simplifying the MLA system period after that before the scrutiny Committees are among EU member states and introducing strict deadlines fully reconstituted. What the new Government found for the execution of requests. on coming into office was that the EU’s legislative It is true that had we not opted into the EIO, we timetable on justice and home affairs had not stopped would still have been able to operate MLA with other and there was an accumulation of measures, each with EU countries, but we would have been in a tiny minority a non-extendable three-month timetable, at the end of of EU countries not using the EIO. Owing to that, and which we had to decide whether to make the initial because deadlines would not apply to UK MLA requests, opt-in. A large chunk of that time had already been it is likely that those requests would be given a lower devoured by the period of dissolution, and there were priority than those of other states, and that our no scrutiny Committees in place to do the job that we prosecutors would have experienced longer delays. Given would want and expect Parliament to do. that 75% of the UK’s MLA traffic is with other EU countries, the practical impact on UK cases would have Mr Clappison: Can I take it from what my right hon. been significant. Friend has just said about the European investigation If my hon. Friend wishes to pursue the matter further, order that although it may be an issue that he would I suggest that he first looks at the letter which the Home consider as of particular interest and therefore deserving Secretary wrote to the hon. Member for Nottingham a debate under the scrutiny process, it would not have East (Chris Leslie) on 3 August 2010, and which she has been caught by clause 9 as it stands? He is therefore deposited in the Library. The letter details a number of conceding that this is an extra stage of scrutiny that has specific cases in which the current arrangements were been brought about by the diligent and commendable proven to be inadequate. In one case, evidence that was efforts of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone, who not returned prior to the conclusion of the trial may has done a service to the House in ensuring additional have led to the suspect being exonerated. Her judgment scrutiny. and the Government’s judgment is that had we not opted in, it is likely that there would be more such cases. Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend is right. I signed off a letter to him earlier today responding to these points, Nick de Bois: My right hon. Friend is well aware of which he put to me in writing, although I expect that he my long-term interest in matters pertaining to the European has not yet received it. We draw a distinction between arrest warrant and the EIO. By that explanation, he has the justice and home affairs matters on which it is demonstrated the importance of, and the need for, the already within the competence of the EU to act, but EAW and the EIO. I hope he will reassure us that the where the UK has an opt-in, and matters that are Bill gives the House the chance to debate and pass without the existing competence of the European Union. judgment such things, and to facilitate decisions on We have tried to maintain that distinction in each aspect opting in or out. of the Bill, and that is a point that has informed the Government’s collective view on this legislation. Mr Lidington: My answer to that is on two fronts. The EAW is, of course, a pre-Lisbon, pillar three Mr Clappison: My hon. Friend said “where the UK arrangement. It was not subject to post-Lisbon scrutiny, has an opt-in,” but if I may correct him, I think that he let alone to the detailed scrutiny and discussions with meant where we have the right to opt in. There is a Committees and other representatives of Parliament substantial body of such matters and, of course, in each that the Government are proposing. On the European case they would be subject to the jurisdiction of the investigation order, I can give comfort to my hon. ECJ, should we decide to opt in. Friend. It is the Government’s view that the decision to opt in to the order is one of the matters that would not Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend is right to make that only have attracted significant parliamentary interest, correction. He is also right when he refers to the importance but which would also have raised questions of political of the jurisdiction of the ECJ as a relevant new feature 387 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 388
[Mr Lidington] over legal rights, criminal justice, and social and employment legislation to the UK. However, we cannot have envisaged of any justice and home affairs measure that is brought seeking to return those powers while at the same time forward subsequent to the Lisbon treaty. That is the handing over completely new powers to the European thing that makes such a profound difference between Union, by choosing to opt in. That was the national third-pillar arrangements and the current treaty interest as we saw it, and it remains the national interest. arrangements. That is why when Ministers—usually the Justice Secretary or Home Secretary—come to the Mr Lidington: My hon. Friend puts his point trenchantly. European Affairs Committee of the Cabinet with a I am not going to make any secret of the fact that the proposed decision on a justice and home affairs measure, handling of European policy, and in particular on they are required, as a standard part of Government justice and home affairs, has been one of the most policy, to produce an analysis of the likely impact of delicate issues for the coalition. There have had to be ECJ jurisdiction on our law if the United Kingdom compromises on both sides to get the package of measures participated in the measure, and also to assess the risks that we are including in the Bill and to shape the general that this would lead to competence creep. My hon. policy that we are pursuing in respect of the European Friend is right that that is an important consideration Union. that we need to take into account when judging the balance of national interests that determines whether Mr Cash rose— we choose to opt in to, or stay out of, a particular decision. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Mr Lidington: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I Elphicke), along with a number of other hon. Members, would like to answer one hon. Friend before I give way asked why we needed to opt in at all, because if we have to another one. not gone through the whole scrutiny process, we should If my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere looks just leave it and opt out. The treaty gives us a three-month back to the debates on the Lisbon treaty, he will remember period within which we have to decide whether we want that he and I walked through the same Lobby, day after to make an initial opt-in. We can, if we choose, opt out day, in opposition to that treaty. My recollection is that at that stage, let the negotiations take place on the final we had at least one day when we talked entirely about version of the measure, and then opt in to the final text, justice and home affairs matters. He knows the view as agreed by the others taking part. The problem with that I took as a Front Bencher in a Conservative Opposition. what he suggested is that it is not a reliable method of I would much rather be either a member of or supporting ensuring that our national interests are properly represented, a Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition than spend for a number of reasons. another Parliament sitting fruitlessly in opposition, seeing First, if we wait until the final stage, we have to ask measures being taken through the House to which I was the Commission if we may participate. The Council is vehemently opposed but which I was powerless to stop. then able to specify conditions under which United Kingdom can do so. If we judge that the balance of Mr Cash: My right hon. Friend is getting on to a very advantage points towards our opting in, there is a sensitive point, and I quite understand the sensitivities further advantage in getting in first. Secondly, if we involved. When I wrote to my right hon. Friend the participate on the first occasion on which we can opt in, Prime Minister on 10 May last year about the coalition we will then be at the table with a vote, helping to shape agreement, I specifically stated that, if there were to be the final status of the text. We will not be in anything a coalition—I had made it clear that I would have like as influential a position if we make a decision first preferred a minority Government—it was essential that to stay out. Thirdly, if we are not taking part, we have the Liberal Democrats should at least be required to no vote on the final text. There are sometimes occasions— abstain on matters relating to the European Union, for perhaps on a counter-terrorism measure—where we all the reasons that my hon. Friend the Member for might decide that, on balance, it will be in our national Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) has just given. That is the interest to opt in, but where we dislike one particular problem, and we are now finding ourselves in an impossible element of the draft text. Perhaps we also know that dilemma. In fact, I would say that the situation is two or three other key member states have similar untenable. reservations. In those circumstances, it is possible that the Government’s decision would be to opt in by the Mr Lidington: I disagree with my hon. Friend’s statement end of the three-month period, with the aim of putting either that we face an impossible dilemma or that the together an alliance with those other member states so situation is untenable. We have a situation in which two as to secure through negotiation a final text that meets political parties with differences of perspective and our interests and means that we are completely content tradition on a number of issues are finding a way in with the outcome. which to work together in the interests of the nation as a whole. I think that the coalition is providing stable Mr Clappison: My right hon. Friend is being most government. It is new in recent British political experience, courteous in giving way. On the question of where the but I find that it is hugely welcomed by many people of national interest lies, I understand and accept the reasons all political persuasions and no strong political persuasion. why the Government, as a coalition, are having to go through the complicated process that he has described. Mr David: When the Minister says “people all political However, in the Conservative manifesto it was conceived persuasions”, he certainly should not include those on as being in the national interest that we should not opt the Opposition Benches. I found his recent comment in to any such matters, because we were clear that there very interesting indeed. We understand how keen and should be no further extension of the EU’s power over enthusiastic he was to become a Minister, and this is the the UK and we promised to work to return key powers first time that he has revealed why he really, really 389 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 390 wanted to be one. Also, this is the first time that he—or As we consider any potential future use of the JHA any other Minister—has acknowledged that the Bill is ratchet clauses, which in the context of clause 9 we have basically a compromise. It is the result of negotiations identified as articles 81(3), 82(2)(d) and 83(1) of TFEU, between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives. we are also clear that this legislation should ensure that It is important that that point is now firmly on record. any UK participation in such measures by virtue of our This is the first time in this whole debate that it has been opt-in should be preceded by the approval of both said. In the interests of transparency and openness, will Houses of Parliament, and that our agreement to the he elaborate, so that we can find out the exact nature of final measures proposed should be preceded by the negotiating process that led to this rag-bag of a Bill? parliamentary approval through Act of Parliament. We think that this represents a significant step forward in Mr Lidington: It is a bit rich for the hon. Gentleman enhancing the House’s controls on those JHA ratchet to intervene in that fashion. He and I know that, in clauses, while maintaining the same proportionate and regard to policy on Europe or on any other matter, sustainable approach that we have tried to adopt in all Governments of a single party in recent history— other parts of the Bill. Conservative and Labour—have had to compromise a A number of amendments to this clause have been great deal, given the different points of view in the tabled, which are mainly designed to increase the level broad churches that those parties represent. of parliamentary and, in some cases, public control. Amendments 14 and 27 would require the Government Ms Gisela Stuart: They never compromised. to secure the approval of each House before the UK could participate in any measure pursuant to the UK’s Mr Lidington: The hon. Lady says that the Labour opt-in under protocol 21 to title V of part 3 of TFEU. Government never sought to compromise. That might The two amendments have broadly the same scope, explain their result at the last general election. although I note that amendment 27, tabled by my hon. The answer to the hon. Member for Caerphilly is that Friend the Member for Daventry, would not cover an there is a collective discussion, and it is a matter of opt-out decision relating to an extension of the powers public record that every decision about European policy of Eurojust to include the initiation of criminal is routed through the European Affairs Committee of investigations, which he has addressed in a separate the Cabinet. The membership of that Cabinet Committee amendment that I shall deal with later. is published: it comprises two thirds Conservative Ministers One of the Bill’s key aims is to provide greater scrutiny and one third Liberal Democrat Ministers. That is the and accountability over proposals to extend the competences balance of all the Cabinet Committees. There are discussions of the EU or to broaden out the scope for EU action in and exchanges of points of view, and there is an outcome accordance with existing EU competence, whether by to which everyone collectively is willing to sign up and future treaties or the use of ratchet clauses without the support. That seems to be a sensible, constructive way need for formal treaty change. However, measures proposed in which to do the business of government. by the EU pursuant to its existing competences under title V, which do not relate to any proposed use of a Jacob Rees-Mogg: I thank the Minister for giving ratchet clause, are not within the scope of the Bill’s way once more. Would he be kind enough to clarify this enhanced parliamentary controls. As set out on Second point about the coalition? Can we take it that the Reading, measures pursued by the EU pursuant to title Conservatives do not wish to opt in wherever an opt-in V concern the exercise of competences already conferred is available, so that whenever we do so, it is because we on the EU by the member states under the current have been bullied into it by the Lib Dems? treaties, although in the case of the UK, we retain the freedom to decide, measure by measure, whether or not Mr Lidington: No, I do not think that my hon. Friend we participate. should jump to that conclusion. In yesterday’s debate, I The Government believe that European co-operation cited some counter-terrorist measures such as the European in justice and home affairs can deliver key benefits, initiatives on passenger name records or on the tracking helping us to tackle more effectively issues of cross-border of terrorist finance, and it is very much in the interests crime and making it easier for British citizens to do of the United Kingdom for us to take part in them. The business across borders. As I have said on other occasions, US Government, who have a strong interest in these however, the coalition Government committed themselves areas of policy, very much want a transatlantic agreement in the coalition agreement to considering opt-in decisions on such counter-measures and look to us to try to on a case-by-case basis. We have put the United Kingdom’s persuade other European Union member states to support national interest at the heart of our decision-making a vigorous counter-terrorist policy and effective measures and continue to do so, with a view to maximising that will satisfy Washington as well as London. United Kingdom security, protecting our civil liberties, preserving the integrity of our criminal justice system, and maintaining our ability to control immigration. 6.15 pm Ministers take all those criteria into account when Let me move on to deal with the amendments, as I reaching a collective decision about a particular opt-in. have been speaking for nearly half an hour and have not One way in which the Bill will increase public yet been able to get on to that territory. My hon. accountability is by providing that any proposed treaty Friends the Members for Hertsmere and for Daventry change involving an end to the United Kingdom’s freedom tabled many of the amendments, and my hon. Friend not to participate in justice and home affairs by removing the Member for Stone was responsible for much of the the country’s opt-in protocol would be subject to a remainder. Let me respond to the different amendments referendum. All decisions under title V, the chapter in briefly, which I hope will allow us to move on to the TFEU on justice and home affairs, are already subject next group as well. to an enhanced level of parliamentary scrutiny. 391 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 392
Following reflections on the annual report to Parliament about 90 such measures coming up for determination in on the use of the justice and home affairs title V opt-in or before 2014. As this is, again, a matter within existing and Schengen opt-out decisions, I outlined in my written competence, it is best dealt with through the enhanced ministerial statement last Thursday the Government’s scrutiny arrangements that I am proposing and it proposals for further enhancements of such scrutiny should certainly require a vote in the House. The arrangements. In view of the time, and because I set out Government have explicitly committed themselves to the proposals in detail both in the written statement and that and it will, of course, happen before the end of this in yesterday’s debate—they can be found in columns 238 Parliament in 2015. to 239 of Hansard—I do not propose to go into further detail today, although I repeat that I am more than The two amendments standing in the name of my willing to discuss the best way of proceeding with any hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere and others Member on either side of the House. I do, however, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry wish to make a couple of points as a gloss on the policy propose to subject all opt-in decisions to a requirement that I announced in the statement. for an approval motion in both Houses, not simply those on which there is a significant level of parliamentary First, let me repeat that the Government believe that, interest. Because of the practicalities of such a move on in future, measures such as the European investigation all opt-in decisions, that requirement would risk preventing order should be dealt with by way of a parliamentary the Government from being able to secure Parliament’s debate with the opportunity for a vote. Indeed, they approval in time to opt in to any new JHA proposal would have been dealt with in that way had these within the three-month time limit set down in article 3 arrangements applied earlier. We have made an explicit of protocol 21 in order to enable us to participate in commitment to a parliamentary debate and vote on the negotiations at EU level. That would have a knock-on decision on the mass opt-in or opt-out which must be effect on our ability to help shape the proposal effectively determined by 2014, as set out in my written statement. in negotiation, and sometimes that of great importance. Our votes what were made it possible to clinch an Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Would my hon. Friend agreement on the EU-US terrorist finance tracking not consider including that in the Bill? measure that suited our national interest and ensured that the Americans were content too. That deal became Mr Lidington: We are due to debate the measures available during a parliamentary recess, when it would later. not have been possible to go through the formal procedures The Government will have three options. They can that the amendments seek to apply to each and every decide to opt in to all the measures en bloc, or they can opt-in. That is one reason why in the discussions about decide to opt out of them en bloc. The judgment that enhancing scrutiny we have to find a way in which to Ministers will have to make—I emphasise that no decision handle the real difficulties that can sometimes arise, has yet been made, and that we are nowhere near both during recesses and in periods of and following making one or making a recommendation—is that these parliamentary Dissolution. are measures in which the United Kingdom freely decided that it wanted to participate, because it served our May I say in passing to my hon. Friend the Member national interest to do so, during the “third pillar” for Daventry that, although the detail will be the subject process that existed before the Lisbon treaty. of discussions with the relevant Committees and business The Government of the time—Labour or managers, the possibility of a parliamentary vote would Conservative—decided that each measure was right and apply to any opt-in decision under the proposals that I that it was in the British national interest to participate; made in my written statement. Included in that would but, of course, that decision was made on the basis that be measures following the adoption of a measure by those were intergovernmental matters which did not fall other member states and decisions not to opt out of within the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Schengen measures where there is strong parliamentary That is a material difference. If we opt in to all these interest in the measure or where the measure is of the measures in 2014, we must accept that we are opting in importance that I have indicated in my written statement. to matters all of which will, from that point, be subject The process proposed in the amendments does not lend to ECJ jurisdiction. itself to timely decision-making when a rapid decision needs to be taken. I have outlined the practical reasons why this approach would not be proportionate and I Mr David: This is a very important point. One legal hope that my hon. Friends will therefore be prepared opinion says that if we reach that point in 2014 and the not to press their amendments to a Division. Government do not take a decision, Britain will have, in effect, opted in. Is that correct? Amendment 47 would require parliamentary approval before we could opt in to a measure brought forward Mr Lidington: Yes, the default position is that we stay under article 83(2) of TFEU, which allows for the opted in. We have to take a decision one way or the establishment of minimum rules regarding the definition other, and the Government are not going to hide in the of criminal offences and sanctions if such approximation corner and hope that nobody notices a decision to opt of member state criminal laws and regulations is judged in. We are going to make a public announcement at the to be essential to ensure effective implementation of due time and have the debate in Parliament. policy areas in which the EU has already harmonised The third option for the Government would be to opt standards. For example, if the EU set rules about out of the measures en bloc and then seek to opt back environmental protection and a criminal sanction proved in where we continue to believe that the balance of essential to make those rules effective, the EU could advantage to our national interest lies in participation. consequently set a minimum standard for a criminal A complicated analysis is involved and we are talking offence in that area. 393 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 394
I listened carefully to what my hon. Friend the Member participate in an Act that has ceased to apply to it pursuant to for Stone said, but I do not believe that article 83(2) is a Article 10(4) of that Protocol, unless the notification in respect of ratchet clause in the way that articles 81(3), 82(2)(d) or the Act has been approved by Act of Parliament.’. 81(1) are so considered. Article 83(2) makes provision for Europe to be able to act under its existing competence Mr Jenkin: Amendments 82, 83 and 84 concern what without the need to be able to expand EU action in the the Minister set out in a statement last week, in which same way, for example, as article 83(1) provides for the he described the arrangements for the Government to ability to expand the list of areas of serious cross-border give formal notification of whether they wished the UK crime in which the EU can act. I do not therefore think to opt out of certain justice and home affairs matters by that it should be subject to the enhanced level of 31 July 2014. He made it clear in the statement—I think parliamentary control set out in the Bill to which the this is welcome—that the Government intend to allow ratchet clauses are to be subject, given the relative the House of Commons and the other place to table a differences in effect. formal resolution to approve or disapprove of the action the Government take in these matters. 6.30 pm While we are listening to this debate, it is worth Amendments 28 and 29 would require the relevant reminding ourselves of the magnitude of what we are Minister to make an oral statement to the House if he talking about: a complete rearrangement of the civil or she were to seek to join new elements of the Schengen and criminal legal system of our country that will move acquis or not to opt out of a measure building on the whole civil and criminal system on to an entirely Schengen. As my written ministerial statement made new basis. I hear what my right hon. Friend the Minister clear, we intend that Schengen decisions, like JHA title says about the number of advocates-general and about V decisions, should be covered fully by the proposed maintaining four judges in the European Court of Justice enhanced scrutiny arrangements. who represent common law jurisdictions, but that is a I hope that I have been able to respond to the concerns completely meaningless reassurance in the face of all raised by hon. Members on both sides of the House. In the other judges and the history of the jurisprudence of the interests of moving on to the next group of amendments, the European Court of Justice, which simply is not I shall conclude my remarks. interested in the common law basis of the jurisdictions of its member states. Mr Clappison: As I said earlier, I do not intend to Having fought against the Lisbon treaty in principle press the amendment to a vote. I want to make progress and most particularly on the basis of its potential to and for that reason, and the other reasons I have interfere in the criminal and civil law of this country, it mentioned, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. is astonishing that the Government, since the election, Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. have, for example, approved the directive establishing Amendment proposed: 33, page 8, line 16, at end the European investigation order. Let us be clear: that add— allows another member state to oblige the United Kingdom to carry out almost any investigative action in the UK, ‘(7) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification under including searching a house, intercepting telephone calls Article 10(5) of Protocol (No. 36) on Transitional Provisions and obtaining DNA for the purpose of criminal proceedings annexed to TEU and TFEU that the United Kingdom wishes to participate in an act that has ceased to apply to it pursuant to in the requesting member state. The UK has supported Article 10(4) of that Protocol, where the AFSJ Protocol would the directive on the right to interpretation and translation apply to the procedure for dealing with the notification, unless a of criminal proceedings, ceding jurisdiction in that area Minister of the Crown has given an oral statement to the Chamber to the European Court of Justice. This all happened of the House of Commons on Her Majesty’s Government’s before the European Scrutiny Committee was sitting, so intention to give the notification.’.—(Chris Heaton-Harris.) it was all unscrutinised by this House. Any weasel words from the Government about strengthening the scrutiny The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): of the House of Commons should carry a health warning. With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: The Government have decided to opt in to the Council Amendment 82, page 8, line 16, at end add— decision on the conclusion of an agreement between the ‘(6A) A Minister of the Crown may not make a formal European Union and Georgia on the readmission of decision as to whether to exercise the right of the United persons residing without authorisation, which makes Kingdom to make a notification to the Council under the terms binding on the UK as a matter of European Community of article 10(4) of the Protocol (No 36) on Transitional law an international agreement between the EU and Provisions annexed to TEU and TFEU, unless— Georgia and means that the UK cannot conclude its (a) the decision is approved by Act of Parliament, and own readmission agreement with Georgia, should it (b) the referendum condition is met. wish to do so. I just point out that had any of those (6B) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2).’. decisions been in an international treaty outside the Amendment 83, page 8, line 16, at end add— European Union’s jurisdiction, they would have required an Act of Parliament, but these things are done by the ‘(6C) A Minister of the Crown may not make a formal decision as to whether to exercise the right of the United stroke of a Minister’s pen under the powers in the Kingdom to make a notification to the Council under the terms European Communities Act 1972. of article 10(4) of the Protocol (No 36) on Transitional Provisions annexed to TEU and TFEU, unless the decision is Mr Cash: I am sure that my hon. Friend will recall approved by Act of Parliament.’. what the Minister said about the European Affairs Amendment 84, page 8, line 16, at end add— Committee of the Cabinet, and the fact that we have ‘(6D) A Minister of the Crown may not give a notification two thirds Conservatives and one third Liberal Democrats. under Article 10(5) of Protocol (No 36) on Transitional Provisions For practical purposes, there cannot be a vote; otherwise, annexed to TEU and TFEU that the United Kingdom wishes to if we were to comply with our manifesto commitments, 395 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 396
[Mr Cash] My amendments concern the opting-out proposals. In order to make the Lisbon treaty, which establishes we would win the vote every time. It must be, therefore, the European Union’s authority over criminal and civil that the Government are willing to agree with the law, more palatable, there was an arrangement that the Liberal Democrats’ proposals, which makes it even United Kingdom could opt out at a later date. One worse. would have thought that a party and a Government who were elected on a platform to repatriate powers Mr Jenkin: I thought the exchanges between the two from the EU, and who fought against the Lisbon treaty Front Benchers about the real nature of the coalition on the principle that the European Union should not agreement were very revealing. We have all known have jurisdiction over our criminal law, would be keen about this from the minute that the coalition agreement to ensure that any coalition agreement reflected that was first mooted. That is why I was one of the newly policy, particularly as they have talked about a sovereignty elected Members who went to see the then Leader of clause, a referendum lock and so on. the Opposition, just after the election, and said, “Do not do this; let us have another election in short order We know that there will probably never be a new so that we can deliver our mandate and our promises to treaty amendment that meets the test that triggers a the British people.” We knew that we were being bound referendum. Indeed, the Minister made it clear that he into an arrangement that would mean having to swap has no intention of letting a Bill through the House that our obligations to our electors—let us face it, handing would trigger such a referendum during the lifetime of criminal jurisdiction over to the European Union is not this Parliament. The Lisbon treaty has made the EU exactly a popular thing to do—for a mess of pottage: a self-amending. The Liberal Democrat MEP, Andrew compromise with the Liberal Democrats. The Deputy Duff, who is chair of the Federal Trust, said on the BBC Prime Minister took great interest in these matters, World Service: “The treaty of Lisbon is in force and it particularly justice and home affairs, when he worked won’t be unpicked by the British. It can’t be. It is the for the European Commission and I understand that he statute which will probably govern the Union for some is personally extremely committed to the creation of a time.” As I said in the debate on Monday, federalist criminal justice legal order as part of the state “The problem is that this is not the ‘thus far and no further’ building of the European Union. We are now actively Bill; it is the ‘locking the stable door after the horse has bolted’ participating in that. Bill.—[Official Report, 24 January 2011; Vol. 522, c. 116.] We do not know whether the next five years will see Martin Horwood: In the spirit of coalition, which the any changes to the EU treaties—I suspect they will—but hon. Gentleman so obviously and positively espouses, there is one area in which the Government will have to does he accept that the Liberal Democrats have moved make a very significant decision: whether to give more quite a long way in accepting this Bill at all and that powers to Brussels or to bring them back to Britain. I many of the strictures it puts on the progress of proper remind the House that were the measure outside the government at European level are things that do not jurisdiction of the European Communities Act, there come particularly naturally to Liberal Democrat Members? would be no question but that there would be hundreds of pages of Acts of Parliament to implement this stuff, Mr Jenkin: I am perfectly prepared to accept that instead of its automatic inclusion in our law and some Liberal Democrats have compromised considerably implementation. It is fundamentally undemocratic to on the Bill. reorganise our constitution by the stroke of a Minister’s What does the Bill add up to? The problem is that it pen in this way. does not change anything. It does not change the relationship between the European Union and the United In crime and policing, EU measures which were Kingdom one comma or dot. It is about the arrangements passed under the pre-Lisbon third pillar arrangements between the British Government and the British Parliament. are in this transitional period. Under the Lisbon treaty, We all know that it is designed to give the impression there is a period in which we can opt out en bloc, as the that this and future Governments will somehow be Minister said. These measures include the European locked down by the referendum lock and will be obliged arrest warrant and the recognition of the trial of UK to have referendums as never before. It is certainly citizens in EU countries held in absentia. I have in my useful to create that expectation because the disappointment passport something about the protection of UK citizens, when no referendum occurs will then be much deeper, and here we are, handing over the possibility that UK but what does the Bill actually mean? citizens can be tried in other European jurisdictions without even being there. That is something that we do Clauses 2 to 7 make a lot of legal arrangements to not do in our own jurisdiction. ensure that decisions taken by the Government are approved by referendum or Act of Parliament. There The creation of the European public prosecutor will are certain exclusions that we have already argued about, happen under the arrangement. The Government will such as whether the treaty on fiscal union will somehow have a straight choice between expanding the jurisdiction be exempted from referendum even though it is probably of the European Court of Justice over the British one of the most significant European treaties we will see justice system, or opting out of the measure. It is a rare in our lifetimes. That is the state of the Bill, which has opportunity that we have in the treaty to repatriate some remarkable tripwires—so many that the Opposition power. One would have thought that we would want to spokesman has been saying, “This is getting too particular do it, but the Bill as it stands does not include any and detailed; we will have to have Acts of Parliament control whatever over that decision. All we have is a and referendums on all kinds of things that are patently personal assurance from the Minister that he will bring ridiculous.” That is why I think that future Governments it to the House for a decision. That is welcome, but it will wriggle out of the obligations without much difficulty. not the kind of democratic control that is needed. 397 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 398
The Government have just announced the revision of despite our manifesto and despite the common sense control orders, which will require legislation. That is and the wishes of the people at large, who vote for us by subject to democratic control. Imagine if the control the way, will mean that we increasingly hand ourselves orders decision was announced by the Government and over to an entity, a European Union, not Europe, which required no legislation. That is what we are being offered is manifestly failing on all fronts, with protest, riots, the in the Bill. whole place imploding—Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland? The whole situation is moving entirely in Mr David: The hon. Gentleman is making a logical, the wrong direction. That is the big landscape, and that coherent argument. The Government’s position on the is where the Bill fails. Bill, as I was led to believe, was that if there were a significant move towards powers being transferred from Mr Jenkin: I fully agree with my hon. Friend, but I the UK to the European Union, there should be a will try to avoid being drawn into that. The great skill in referendum. We have referred to a number of cases Committee debates is to avoid making the same speech when there would be small changes, on which there over and over again. However, I will be guilty of repeating might be a referendum, but he is talking about a very something that I have said before, which is that the EU significant change. Does he not think there should be a is made up of democracies, but it is not itself a democracy. referendum on that? It is anything but a democracy; it is a bureaucracy. It has some institutions that purport to be democratic, but Mr Jenkin: The hon. Gentleman is right. The Bill is they have only the most tenuous link with the real completely inconsistent. Relatively tiny matters covered aspirations of the peoples they seek to serve. The by the Bill and caught by its provisions will have to unaccountability of the most powerful institutions of come to Parliament and may even have to be the subject the EU, namely the Commission and the European of a referendum. But this incredibly significant change Court of Justice, is legendary. They spend money like to our legal system that is taking place now is exempted water and they have yet to have their accounts formally from the Bill. It is totally illogical. If there is anything approved by the Court of Auditors for the last 14 years. that makes a complete nonsense of the Bill, it is this That is how unaccountable the institutions are to total exclusion of the 2014 decision. which we are handing over the jurisdiction of our criminal law. That is why I am mystified by the Mr Clappison: My hon. Friend is making an excellent Government’s complacency, except, as the Minister has speech and some telling points. Does he agree that the now admitted, for that fact that we traded away our EU is being honest about what it wants to do? It wants, principles for power. Moreover, we did that not just in en bloc, to create an area of freedom, security and the national interest for a short period, but for five justice, and to have EU authority over that whole bloc. years. I am pretty certain that before five years have It is not a question of our Government looking judiciously passed this country will be crying out for a general at the odd measure here or there and whether things will election. When a country finishes up with a Government be made better or not. We are confronted with an who have no mandate, except an agreement that was attempt by the EU to carve out jurisdiction across the invented between two political parties, we are in a piece in the area of freedom, security and justice. That dangerous situation. It was not for nothing that Benjamin is its stated ambition. Disraeli said that England does not love coalitions; if a party is an organised hypocrisy, I dread to think what 6.45 pm the correct term for a coalition should be, except an Mr Jenkin: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We expedient in an emergency. are going into this with our eyes wide open, except that this Bill has its eyes wide shut. The Bill pretends that Ms Gisela Stuart: The hon. Gentleman makes a there is no decision to be made between now and 2014 powerful speech and his amendments are sensible. If his about this momentous change to our criminal justice colleagues on the Conservative Front Bench do not system and the way the law is conducted in this country—to accept any of them, will it be his view that that will have the protection that Parliament can currently afford to been entirely due to power brokering with the Lib UK citizens but is now already being eroded. Dems, or might it just be a frolic of their own? So I have tabled a series of amendments. There are some choices for the Minister, and I would be interested Mr Jenkin: I am not sure how to answer that question. to know which he prefers. Amendment 82 would mean If the hon. Lady does not mind, I will continue my that the Government have to gain the approval of a remarks, because I intend to sit down shortly so that referendum before they decide that the UK should not other Members can take part. All I will say is that those opt out of these laws. Amendment 83 would require the decisions should be reserved not only for Parliament, approval of at least an Act of Parliament for the but for an Act of Parliament. They are of such significance Government to do so. Amendment 84 is quite modest; that I would prefer the Government to accept amendment it would require an Act of Parliament before the 82 so that a decision on those matters is made by Government could opt back in to any of the laws that referendum. had ceased to apply following the 2014 opt-out decision. I remind the Minister that we originally stood on a This is a question of more or less power being transferred manifesto commitment to have a referendum on the to the EU, which would fundamentally alter our criminal Lisbon treaty. Indeed, the Liberal Democrats, with whom justice system, but it is being left entirely up to Ministers. we sit in coalition, wanted a referendum on the EU as well. Given that common ground, I cannot for the life Mr Cash: In the light of my hon. Friend’s intelligent of me understand why we should not have a referendum observations, does he also agree that the process of on at least this aspect of the Lisbon treaty. If the Europeanisation, not merely by default, but by activism, Liberal Democrats want to call it an “in or out”referendum, 399 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 400
[Mr Jenkin] As outlined in my written statement on 20 January, we will they may do so, but the question on the ballot paper “conduct further consultations on the arrangements for this vote, should simply be: “Do you want the criminal justice in particular with the European Scrutiny Committees, and the system of this country to be controlled by the Commons and Lords Home Affairs and Justice Select European Union?” I know what the answer would be. If Committees”.—[Official Report, 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 51WS.] the Government were to hold that referendum, I think The 2014 decision, however, concerns measures that the that they would be very popular. In fact, it might even UK agreed pre-Lisbon, and in most cases they have make the coalition popular. I recommend it to the already been transposed into United Kingdom law and Minister. implemented. A few moment ago I checked to see whether there is a I shall respond briefly to a couple of points that my copy of the document that I am holding on the Table. hon. Friend has raised. Civil justice measures are already There are all sorts of things on the Table, including subject to European Court of Justice jurisdiction—and Vacher’s, the Standing Orders, Erskine May and documents were so prior to the Lisbon treaty. The measures falling relating to the proceedings of the House. There is the within the scope of the 2014 decision on criminal justice guide to standards of conduct in public life and all sorts were not subject to section 2(2) of the European of things that direct the behaviour and conduct of Communities Act 1972 before the Lisbon treaty; the Members and what we do in the House. However, this majority of those items of legislation, which are in force document is not there. It, of course, is “Consolidated in this country, required their own separate Acts of Texts of the EU Treaties as Amended by the Treaty of Parliament in order to be implemented, including the Lisbon”, as published by the Government. I have to say Extradition Act 2003, which implemented the European that the index is a little thin, which makes it difficult to arrest warrant, and about which hon. Members on both find one’s way through it. This is the document that sides of the House have many concerns. now governs this country.Unless we change our relationship If the UK were to decide to remain in the pillar three with the EU, this will be the constitution of the United measures, no new transfer of power or competence Kingdom, as we have no written constitution of our would therefore be associated with that decision: it own. These are the laws by which we are governed, but would be neither a treaty change nor a ratchet clause. it is not even on the Table. That underlines how this The decision for 2014 is therefore different in kind from House, 20 years after we signed the Maastricht treaty, the decisions that we propose, in the Bill, to subject to which began to establish European governance, is still either a referendum or a primary legislative lock. sleepwalking into a European federation. Until the Government have decided what to propose on the bloc opt-out, it is difficult to reach any decisions There are those who wishfully believe that the argument about what to do on subsequent opt-ins, but such has somehow been won by the Eurosceptics. It is an decisions seem to have similarities with the decisions on argument that they do not want to have. They want to post-adoption opt-ins to new pieces of JHA legislation, avoid it because in order to resolve the democratic with the important difference that this country will government of this country, we will have to confront the already have participated in the measures in question. EU. There will have to be a disagreement with our European partners, because there is so much pride The Government will pay all proper attention to the invested in the document, and other member states have need for parliamentary scrutiny of any such opt-in so much pride in having drawn the United Kingdom decision, should that prove to be necessary and should into those arrangements. They will have to be confronted the Government wish to opt back into selected measures; with the humiliation that they were wrong. As the euro but, just as the arrangements for enhanced parliamentary collapses around our ears and the peoples of Europe scrutiny of current JHA opt-ins are a matter to be rise up in the streets of their capitals, there could be no agreed outside the confines of the Bill, so too are better time to do that; and there could be no better time decisions on the parliamentary scrutiny of those other to do it than when the EU itself is asking for new decisions. powers and asking us to agree to things for which they In light of the Government’s commitments to more need our consent. That is the time we should be asking powerful and enhanced parliamentary scrutiny, and for our powers and our governance back on a mutually because of the nature of the decisions that we will face agreed basis. It is lamentable that the Government have by 2014, we do not think that the matters in question not even the willpower to ask for those things. should be covered by the Bill. I therefore urge my hon. Friends not to press their amendments to the vote. Mr Lidington: The decision on whether to exercise Chris Heaton-Harris: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the bloc opt-out is important and sensitive for the the amendment. United Kingdom. On that point at least, I agree with Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Amendment proposed: 82, in clause 9, page 8, line 16, at Essex (Mr Jenkin). Its implications for the whole range end add— of complex, technical and often interrelated measures ‘(6A) A Minister of the Crown may not make a formal concerned will need to be carefully considered, and decision as to whether to exercise the right of the United they ought to be carefully considered by Government Kingdom to make a notification to the Council under the terms and Parliament. I agree completely that Parliament of article 10(4) of the Protocol (No 36) on Transitional should give its view on a decision of such national Provisions annexed to TEU and TFEU, unless— importance. That is why the Government have (a) the decision is approved by Act of Parliament, and committed publicly to having a vote in both Houses (b) the referendum condition is met. before making a formal decision on whether we wish to (6B) The referendum condition is that set out in opt in or out. section 3(2).’.—(Mr Jenkin.) 401 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 402
Question put, That the amendment be made. Garnier, Mr Edward Lefroy, Jeremy Garnier, Mark Leslie, Charlotte The Committee divided: Ayes 26, Noes 313. Gauke, Mr David Lewis, Brandon Division No. 183] [6.58 pm George, Andrew Lidington, rh Mr David Gibb, Mr Nick Lilley, rh Mr Peter AYES Gilbert, Stephen Lloyd, Stephen Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Baron, Mr John Main, Mrs Anne Glen, John Long, Naomi Bone, Mr Peter McDonnell, John Goodwill, Mr Robert Lopresti, Jack Carswell, Mr Douglas Nuttall, Mr David Gove, rh Michael Lord, Jonathan Clappison, Mr James Reckless, Mark Graham, Richard Loughton, Tim Corbyn, Jeremy Shannon, Jim Gray, Mr James Lucas, Caroline Cryer, John Shepherd, Mr Richard Grayling, rh Chris Luff, Peter Davidson, Mr Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Green, Damian Lumley, Karen Davies, Philip Turner, Mr Andrew Greening, Justine Macleod, Mary Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Whittingdale, Mr John Grieve, rh Mr Dominic MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Henderson, Gordon Wilson, Sammy Griffiths, Andrew Maude, rh Mr Francis Hoey, Kate Wood, Mike Gummer, Ben May, rh Mrs Theresa Hollobone, Mr Philip Gyimah, Mr Sam Maynard, Paul Hopkins, Kelvin Tellers for the Ayes: Halfon, Robert McCartney, Jason Howarth, rh Mr George Mr William Cash and Hames, Duncan McCartney, Karl Lewis, Dr Julian Mr Bernard Jenkin Hammond, rh Mr Philip McIntosh, Miss Anne Hancock, Matthew McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick NOES Hands, Greg McPartland, Stephen Adams, Nigel Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harper, Mr Mark McVey, Esther Afriyie, Adam Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harrington, Richard Menzies, Mark Aldous, Peter Carmichael, Neil Harris, Rebecca Mercer, Patrick Amess, Mr David Chishti, Rehman Hart, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Andrew, Stuart Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick Miller, Maria Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mills, Nigel Bacon, Mr Richard Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hayes, Mr John Milton, Anne Bagshawe, Ms Louise Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heald, Mr Oliver Moore, rh Michael Baker, Norman Collins, Damian Heath, Mr David Mordaunt, Penny Baldry, Tony Colvile, Oliver Hemming, John Morgan, Nicky Baldwin, Harriett Cox, Mr Geoffrey Henderson, Gordon Morris, Anne Marie Barclay, Stephen Crabb, Stephen Hendry, Charles Morris, David Barwell, Gavin Crockart, Mike Herbert, rh Nick Morris, James Bebb, Guto Crouch, Tracey Hinds, Damian Mosley, Stephen Beith, rh Sir Alan Davey, Mr Edward Hoban, Mr Mark Mowat, David Bellingham, Mr Henry Davies, David T. C. Hollingbery, George Mulholland, Greg Benyon, Richard (Monmouth) Holloway, Mr Adam Mundell, rh David Beresford, Sir Paul Davies, Glyn Hopkins, Kris Munt, Tessa Berry, Jake Davis, rh Mr David Horwood, Martin Murrison, Dr Andrew Bingham, Andrew de Bois, Nick Hosie, Stewart Neill, Robert Birtwistle, Gordon Dinenage, Caroline Howarth, Mr Gerald Newmark, Mr Brooks Blackman, Bob Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Howell, John Newton, Sarah Blackwood, Nicola Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Nokes, Caroline Blunt, Mr Crispin Dorries, Nadine Hunter, Mark Norman, Jesse Boles, Nick Doyle-Price, Jackie Huppert, Dr Julian O’Brien, Mr Stephen Bottomley, Sir Peter Duddridge, James Hurd, Mr Nick Offord, Mr Matthew Bradley, Karen Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jackson, Mr Stewart Ollerenshaw, Eric Brake, Tom Dunne, Mr Philip James, Margot Opperman, Guy Bray, Angie Edwards, Jonathan Javid, Sajid Ottaway, Richard Brazier, Mr Julian Ellis, Michael Johnson, Gareth Paice, rh Mr James Bridgen, Andrew Ellison, Jane Johnson, Joseph Paterson, rh Mr Owen Brine, Mr Steve Ellwood, Mr Tobias Jones, Andrew Pawsey, Mark Brokenshire, James Elphicke, Charlie Jones, Mr David Penning, Mike Brooke, Annette Eustice, George Jones, Mr Marcus Penrose, John Browne, Mr Jeremy Evans, Graham Kawczynski, Daniel Percy, Andrew Bruce, Fiona Evans, Jonathan Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Phillips, Stephen Bruce, rh Malcolm Evennett, Mr David Kirby, Simon Pickles, rh Mr Eric Buckland, Mr Robert Fabricant, Michael Knight, rh Mr Greg Pincher, Christopher Burley, Mr Aidan Fallon, Michael Kwarteng, Kwasi Poulter, Dr Daniel Burns, Conor Farron, Tim Laing, Mrs Eleanor Prisk, Mr Mark Burns, Mr Simon Featherstone, Lynne Lancaster, Mark Pugh, John Burrowes, Mr David Field, Mr Mark Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Raab, Mr Dominic Burstow, Paul Fox,rhDrLiam Latham, Pauline Randall, rh Mr John Burt, Alistair Francois, rh Mr Mark Laws, rh Mr David Reid, Mr Alan Burt, Lorely Freeman, George Leadsom, Andrea Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Byles, Dan Freer, Mike Lee, Jessica Robertson, Hugh Cable, rh Vince Fullbrook, Lorraine Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Mr Laurence Cairns, Alun Fuller, Richard Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan 403 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 404
Ruffley, Mr David Tredinnick, David the Member for Belfast West (Mr Adams) had resigned Rutley, David Truss, Elizabeth his seat. After checking my copy of “Erskine May”, I Sanders, Mr Adrian Tyrie, Mr Andrew have discovered that it states on page 57 that Sandys, Laura Uppal, Paul “a Member…cannot relinquish his seat” Scott, Mr Lee Vaizey, Mr Edward Selous, Andrew Vara, Mr Shailesh and must therefore accept Shapps, rh Grant Vickers, Martin “office under the Crown, which legally vacates his seat and Sharma, Alok Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa obliges the House to order a new writ.” Shelbrooke, Alec Walker, Mr Charles It continues: Simmonds, Mark Walker, Mr Robin “These offices are…purely nominal and are ordinarily given by Simpson, Mr Keith Wallace, Mr Ben the Chancellor of the Exchequer to any Member who applies for Skidmore, Chris Ward, Mr David them.” Smith, Miss Chloe Watkinson, Angela It is my understanding from press releases by Mr Adams Smith, Henry Weatherley, Mike that he neither applied for nor has accepted either of Smith, Julian Webb, Steve Smith, Sir Robert Weir, Mr Mike those two offices of the Crown. Can you confirm therefore Soames, Nicholas Wharton, James that no such resignation is in order and that the Prime Soubry, Anna Wheeler, Heather Minister has—inadvertently, I am sure—misled the House? Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline White, Chris Spencer, Mr Mark Whittaker, Craig Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Stanley, rh Sir John Wiggin, Bill giving me advance notice of his point of order. Stevenson, John Willetts, rh Mr David I can inform the House that I have received formal Stewart, Bob Williams, Hywel notification from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that Stewart, Iain Williams, Mr Mark Gerard Adams has been appointed to be steward and Stewart, Rory Williams, Roger bailiff of the Manor of Northstead. Under the terms of Streeter, Mr Gary Williams, Stephen section 4 of the House of Commons Disqualification Stride, Mel Williamson, Gavin Act 1975, for the purposes of the provisions of this Act Stuart, Mr Graham Willott, Jenny relating to the vacation of the seat of a Member of the Stunell, Andrew Wilson, Mr Rob Sturdy, Julian House of Commons who becomes disqualified by that Wishart, Pete Act from membership of that House, the office of Swales, Ian Wollaston, Dr Sarah Swayne, Mr Desmond steward or bailiff of Her Majesty’s three Chiltern Hundreds Wright, Simon of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham, or of the Manor Swinson, Jo Yeo, Mr Tim Swire, rh Mr Hugo of Northstead, shall be treated as included among the Young, rh Sir George Syms, Mr Robert offices described in part III of schedule 1 to the Act. Zahawi, Nadhim Teather, Sarah The hon. Member for Belfast West is therefore Thurso, John Tellers for the Noes: disqualified from membership of the House by virtue of Timpson, Mr Edward Norman Lamb and section 1 of that Act. The hon. Member for Dunfermline Tomlinson, Justin Jeremy Wright and West Fife, in referring to pages 57 and 58 of “Erskine May”, causes me to comment on the matter to Question accordingly negatived. which he referred. “Erskine May” describes the course of events in cases in the past, but as I have ruled, the law 7.13 pm is clear. Appointment to one of the two offices to which Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order,7 December). I have referred, under section 4 of the Act, results in The Chair put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disqualification. With reference to the observation that disposal of the business to be concluded at that time the hon. Gentleman made about the comments of the (Standing Order No. 83D). Prime Minister, I am sure that the Prime Minister would never intentionally mislead the House, but the Clauses 9 and 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill. point has been heard on the Treasury Bench and perhaps the Leader of the House will wish to reply. Clause 14 The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young): May I reiterate what you have just said, Mr Speaker? CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS AND REPEALS RELATING Of course my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister TO PART 1 would never intentionally mislead the House. The House Amendment made: 59, page 10, line 12, leave out from will be aware that the only way to enact a resignation is ‘treaty’ to end of line 15 and insert to appoint the person to one of the relevant positions. ‘that is subject to a requirement imposed by Part 1 of the The Prime Minister was aware of the process to appoint European Union Act 2011 (restrictions on treaties and decisions Gerry Adams to be steward and bailiff of the Manor of relating to EU)’.—(Mr Lidington.) Northstead. It might have been better for my right hon. Clause 14, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Friend to have said “is being appointed” instead of “has The occupant of the Chair left the Chair (Programme accepted”, and I am happy to make that clarification Order, 7 December). for the record. The Speaker resumed the Chair. Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to the Leader of Progress reported; Committee to sit again tomorrow. the House.
Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Further to On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that at that point of order, Mr Speaker. No doubt the fact that lunchtime the Prime Minister informed the House that Gerry Adams has now departed this place will be 405 European Union Bill26 JANUARY 2011 European Union Bill 406 greatly welcomed, given that he will no longer be able to responsibilities, and this is one of those occasions on claim the large amounts of money that the Government which it is right for me to communicate the facts of the said he would not be allowed to claim, but that he situation, but not to wallow in the realms of metaphysical nevertheless went on claiming as a result of being in abstraction, if I can put it that way. office here. A Treasury statement today says that the Chancellor Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Further to that of the Exchequer has taken the public statement by point of order, Mr Speaker. “Erskine May” makes it Gerry Adams that he is resigning from Parliament as a quite clear that someone should apply for an office request to be appointed as steward and bailiff of the under the Crown. Should I, as the Member for East Manor of Northstead and granted him that office. As a Antrim, in a fit of despair when I see who will replace result, there arises a question about in what circumstances Gerry Adams, express publicly the view that I wished the Chancellor may take a statement or other indication that I was not a Member of a House that contained of resignation as an excuse or reason to make such an such a person, would the Chancellor take that as an appointment—[Interruption.] These are serious matters, indication that I should no longer be a Member of this because the normal procedures have not been followed, House and therefore appoint me to an office of the in that Mr Adams did not apply in the normal way and Crown? That seems to be the implication of the ruling did not accept in the normal way. Can you, Mr Speaker, that you have made. investigate the role of the Northern Ireland Office and other agencies in this matter? Mr Speaker: Once again—I fear that I am being repetitive, but it is necessary for me to be so—let me say Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman that I have made the factual and legal position clear. for his point of order. The Chancellor of the Exchequer The hon. Gentleman has raised a point of order, and it has exercised his responsibilities, and I do not think that seems to me that the matter that he has raised—a it is either necessary or seemly to dilate upon how he matter relating to what could or could not now ensue—is has done so. He has done so in an entirely orderly way. I essentially a hypothetical matter upon which it is neither would simply say to the right hon. Gentleman that I necessary nor possible for a ruling to be made this think that the House will want to rest content with the evening. I believe that the position is clear: the thrust of what has been said to it. It is not necessary to disqualification has happened. If there are Members get ahead of ourselves and engage in hypothetical scenarios. who are dissatisfied with the procedure—a very senior We do not need to do that. However, I have listened to Member and others have indicated some level of the right hon. Gentleman with the care and respect with dissatisfaction—it is perfectly open to them further to which I always listen to him. pursue the matter through other quarters, on other occasions, but I do not think that there is profit in dwelling further on them this evening. Thomas Docherty: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. On the specific issue of whether Mr Adams Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Further to has accepted an office of the Crown, can you confirm that point of order, Mr Speaker. Much has been said in that this is the case? As of late this afternoon, Mr Adams the past 12 months and more about modernising the was still claiming that he had not accepted the office, House of Commons. You made great reference to this which was so graciously offered to him by the Chancellor yourself in your campaign speech. I hope that this will of the Exchequer. not seem too revolutionary, but would it not be appropriate for the Procedure Committee to look into these matters? Mr Speaker: I have ruled on the matter. The appointment Why should it be necessary, in the 21st century, to apply has been made; the disqualification is a fact. Beyond for an office of profit under the Crown? Why should that, I do not think that I can realistically or reasonably not it be possible for an hon. Member to resign his seat? be expected to elaborate. I suggest that there is a case for this matter to be looked at. People watching this might consider it rather farcical. Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. There is quite an important Mr Speaker: I note what the hon. Gentleman has issue here about the nature of an application, because said, and I hope that he will understand that I respect if, for the sake of argument, a Member were to express what he has said, but that it is not for me to speculate the view that they might feel like resigning from the from the Chair on what the future position might be. It House, the Chancellor might then appoint them and is absolutely open to the hon. Gentleman and to any they would find themselves disqualified. Surely there other hon. Member to request that the Procedure must be a clear procedure for making it transparent that Committee study this issue and make recommendations. the Member in question has applied for the Chiltern I am not in any sense dying in the ditch as a matter of Hundreds. The question that is being asked—a question principle in favour of the status quo; nor am I arguing to which the House would like an answer—is: was an for a change to it. I am exercising my rather limited application made in this case specifically for the Chiltern responsibility to report to the House what has happened Hundreds which then led the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the facts of the situation. I hope that that is helpful. to make the appointment, and was it accepted? Mr Winnick rose— Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the shadow Leader of the House for his point of order, but the matter to Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, which he has just referred—whether an application for who is indicating that he wishes further to pursue the the Chiltern Hundreds has been made—is, I am afraid, matter; I respect that. not a matter for me. The matter has been addressed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the execution of his Mr Winnick: I shall write to the Procedure Committee. 407 European Union Bill 26 JANUARY 2011 408
Mr Speaker: I note what the hon. Gentleman has said Speaker’s Committee for the Independent from a sedentary position. Parliamentary Standards Authority Sammy Wilson: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. You are absolutely correct to say that, 7.29 pm whatever the future might be, things could be different. Can you confirm to the House now, given the shabby The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George way in which this has been handled in order to avoid the Young): I beg to move, embarrassment of Sinn Fein, that it is now no longer That the following appointments be made to the Speaker’s necessary for a Member to apply for an office under the Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority Crown if they wish to resign? in pursuance of Schedule 3 to the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, as amended— Mr Speaker: The short answer is no, I am not confirming (1) Hilary Benn in place of Ms Rosie Winterton, until the end of the present Parliament, in accordance with paragraph 1(d) of that at all. What I have done, and what I am doing the Schedule; and again, is reporting the facts of the situation and the appointment that has been made by the Chancellor of (2) as lay members of the Committee, in accordance with paragraph 1(e) of the Schedule— the Exchequer, of which I was, perfectly courteously, notified. (a) Dame Janet Gaymer DBE QC (Hon.), for a period of five years; Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Further to (b) Elizabeth McMeikan, for a period of four years; and that point of order, Mr Speaker. It appears that a major (c) Sir Anthony Holland, for a period of three years. constitutional change is taking place, and I feel sure I hope that we can now move into calmer waters, that the House would welcome a statement tomorrow Mr Speaker, though as the motion affects the Independent from a Minister, so that we can question them about Parliamentary Standards Authority, that might be a this matter. forlorn hope. It seeks the appointment of members to the Speaker’s Committee for IPSA. I move this motion Mr Speaker: I note the point of order. It will have to facilitate the decision of the House. been heard by those on the Treasury Bench and it is a The Speaker’s Committee for IPSA is a statutory matter for any Minister to make a statement if he or she Committee, set up under the Parliamentary Standards so wishes. Act 2009, and its role and membership are determined by that statute. It has two key responsibilities: to consider Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): Further to the candidates proposed by the Speaker, following fair that point of order, Mr Speaker. The House will have and open competition for the posts of Chair and members heard with respect everything that you have said, and of IPSA, and to approve IPSA’s annual estimate of will have been interested to hear your view that you are resources. neither defending the status quo nor advocating a change from it. I know that people, including my hon. Friend The current membership of the Speaker’s Committee the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), will say includes Mr Speaker, the Chair of the Standards and that a constitutional change has occurred to the point Privileges Committee and myself—by virtue of our at which people will roll their eyes and smile, but this is offices. It currently has five other members who were a very serious matter. The eminent father of the shadow appointed by the House in June 2010. To this membership, Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for Leeds we must now add three lay members. I will deal substantively Central (Hilary Benn), used to say that people thought with the issue of the addition of lay members in a procedure was boring but that it is not; it is our safeguard. moment, but let me first briefly outline paragraph (1) of If what appears to have happened today is confirmed as the motion. This was added, at the request of the being an acceptable way forward, that would mean that Opposition, to remove the right hon. Member for Doncaster the Chancellor of the Exchequer could decide whether Central (Ms Winterton) and add the shadow Leader of someone should be a Member of Parliament or not, the House in her place. This is a matter for the Labour without their say-so. That is not acceptable. party, and I am happy to facilitate it. As a member of SCIPSA, I would like to thank the Mr Speaker: I do not think that I should make any right hon. Member for Doncaster Central for her work further comment beyond what I have said about the on the Committee, helping us through some challenging appointment that has been made, the communication of meetings at the beginning, and I look forward to welcoming it by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to me, and my the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), communication of the reality of the matters to the should the House agree this motion. I know that he, House of Commons. The hon. Gentleman is as articulate too, will add great value to our proceedings. a spokesman for his point of view as can be found, and The Committee on Standards in Public Life he has given further evidence of that this evening. We recommended the addition of lay members to the Speaker’s are grateful to him for that, and he might even wish to Committee in its report of November 2009, and this join in making representations to the Procedure Committee. was enshrined in statute through the Constitutional That is a matter for him. I really do feel that these Reform and Governance Act 2010. As a former Chairman matters have been exhausted this evening—[HON.MEMBERS: of the Members Estimate Committee, I can speak first “Hear, hear.”] I am grateful for that sedentary assent to hand on how useful I have found it to have external that proposition. members on Committees that focus on the workings of the House. The House will also remember that it has only recently approved the addition of lay members to the Committee on Standards and Privileges. 409 Speaker’s Committee for IPSA26 JANUARY 2011 Speaker’s Committee for IPSA 410
The Committee on Standards in Public Life set out and successful, but I ask the right hon. Gentleman to its reasoning behind the addition of lay members, specifically consider for a moment whether they are representative. reflecting the growing practice in self-regulatory bodies I think that many Members of Parliament are becoming such as the General Medical Council and the General increasingly tired of hearing people whose incomes are Council of the Bar, which have accepted lay membership clearly way above those of Members opine on what is as a way not only of mitigating charges of being “parti appropriate in relation to Members’ standards of living. pris”, but of widening their horizon, increasing their I wonder whether any trade unionists were considered experience base and strengthening their legitimacy with for these posts. the public. There is no reason why similar principles should not apply to the Speaker’s Committee. Sir George Young: The members of SCIPSA’s board These appointments are made by resolution of the do not undertake the function to which the hon. Lady House. The statute requires that the motion is tabled has referred. They do not decide the remuneration of with the agreement of the Speaker; I can confirm that Members of Parliament or, indeed, their allowances. Mr Speaker has signified his consent. However, the hon. Lady has raised a serious issue about how a diversity of applications was secured. During the Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): My question tender exercise, applicant companies were asked to prove is no reflection on the three distinguished people involved. a commitment to diversity as one of the criteria that Fortunately, after many years, we have managed to would be considered in the assessment of their suitability reach a position where hon. Members have to declare for appointment. It may also reassure the hon. Lady to all their outside interests—something for which I have know that lay members will make a determined effort to fought for many years. Once appointed, will members gain an insight into the work of Members of Parliament of the Speaker’s Committee also have to declare their and the challenges that confront us by observing the outside interests—or, rather, their total income? Again, way in which Members work in their constituencies I emphasise that this is no reflection on the people involved. and, indeed, in the House. Sir George Young: I think the answer is yes and Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I am grateful no—yes to the outside interests, but no to the declaration to the right hon. Gentleman for his statement, but there of income. is a little bit of concern about the nature of the people As recommended by the Committee on Standards in who have been recruited. Do any of them, as far as he is Public Life, these lay members will have full voting aware, have any knowledge or experience of the workings rights on the Committee. The competition required by of Parliament? the statute was conducted at the Speaker’s request by a Sir George Young: SCIPSA contains a large number board chaired by the Clerk Assistant, Robert Rogers. of Members of Parliament, including myself and, if the Following a tender exercise in July last year, a specialist House approves the motion, the shadow Leader of the recruitment agency with experience in the successful House and four or five other colleagues. Input from management of high-level public appointments, Saxton Members of Parliament already exists on the board, Bampfylde was employed to support the process. and we would not expect it to come from the lay Members will wish to know that there was a very high members. level of interest in these posts. A total of 166 applications Although the Act provides for a maximum appointment were received; a longlist of well-qualified candidates length of five years, the motion provides for each lay was considered by the board. Seventeen candidates who member to be appointed for a different duration, reflecting were selected by the board from the longlist received a the placing of the candidates in the final report of the preliminary interview by Saxton Bampfylde. Following board to the Speaker. Thus Dame Janet Gaymer will be report of these conversations, eight candidates were appointed for five years, Elizabeth McMeikan for four selected for interview by the board. After these final years, and Sir Anthony Holland for three years. All interviews, the Speaker met four candidates recommended three of those excellent candidates could quite reasonably by the board, from whom he selected the three individuals be appointed for the maximum period, but if we did whose names appear on the Order Paper. that, the Committee would probably lose the expertise Dame Janet Gaymer has recently retired from service and experience of all three simultaneously. as the Commissioner for Public Appointments in England and Wales, and as a civil service commissioner. She was Mr Winnick: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman previously senior partner at the law firm, Simmons & for allowing me to intervene again. May I expand on Simmons. Elizabeth McMeikan has also served as a what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for civil service commissioner, and is a member of the State Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) and, to a certain Honours Committee. Before taking on these roles, she extent, by me in an earlier intervention? Is it not important was the human resources and change management director for us to have some knowledge of the incomes of people on the main board of Tesco Stores plc. Finally, Sir Anthony who make judgments about the incomes of Members of Holland, a former chairman of the Law Society has Parliament, and their remunerations as a whole? It is held a number of public appointments, including as not a question of trying to interfere in their lives. They chair of the Northern Ireland Parades Commission and have volunteered to be part of the IPSA establishment chair of the Standards Board for England. He currently and to be in the public domain, and I cannot for the life holds an appointment in the office of the complaints of me see why there should be any secrecy about their commissioner of the Financial Services Authority. own total incomes.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): The Leader Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman is seeking to of the House has described the people who are being introduce a wholly new principle to people’s appointments proposed for lay membership. They are clearly eminent to bodies that have some involvement with the House of 411 Speaker’s Committee for IPSA26 JANUARY 2011 Speaker’s Committee for IPSA 412
[Sir George Young] As the Leader of the House has mentioned remuneration, I should like to put my second concern on the record. Commons, or indeed some outside bodies. It was not The House is getting very concerned at the level of one of the terms and conditions of these people’s remuneration afforded to those who help scrutinise the appointments that they should declare their outside work of this House compared with that afforded to interests, and I think it would be quite wrong to require Members of Parliament. That is a concern. I do not them to do that. It would be an unnecessary intrusion know how that level of remuneration was arrived at, on their privacy. and perhaps the Leader of the House will tell us when he sums up. It seems to me that the daily rate considered Helen Goodman: I am grateful to the Leader of the appropriate for Members of this House should also be House for giving way again. I understand that to accept considered appropriate for lay members of the House’s the suggestion advanced by my hon. Friend the Member Committees. I hope that in due course the House will for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) would be to adopt a turn its attention to that, because we tend to forget it. new principle, but I nevertheless feel that we should Many Members do not necessarily wish to stand up and know what remuneration the lay members will receive say that, but this is a concern for Members from all specifically for their work on the Committee. parts of the House.
Sir George Young: I can satisfy the hon. Lady in that Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): May I regard. The Act entitles lay members to remuneration suggest that any reasonable claim for travelling expenses and allowances to be determined by the Speaker and related to the work should be submitted through the paid by IPSA. The daily rate of pay has been set at Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority process, £300, which is comparable to the rate paid to those thus giving the members of the Speaker’s Committee a fulfilling similar roles elsewhere in the public sector. full appreciation of how that process works or malfunctions? I am happy to assure the House that the competition Helen Jones: The right hon. Gentleman tempts me to was fair and open, as the statute requires, and I am sure go down a route that is far away from this motion. that Members will agree that the three candidates who However, I have said, as have others, that many of the have emerged from the process have a wealth of relevant problems with Members’ remuneration and expenses public and private sector experience to support them. would be solved if other people in the public sector were I think it worth reminding the House that the scope tied to the same rates as Members of Parliament. I of the Speaker’s Committee is limited, and that it is not doubt very much that that will happen. intended to serve as a forum or liaison for dealing with hon. Members’ issues with the organisation. That is Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Is it a why you, Mr Speaker, announced last week the creation requirement for appointment that one has to be computer of a separate liaison group, which I know the House literate so as to be able to fill in forms and so on online? will welcome. Is that part of the qualification for appointment? I commend the motion to the House. Helen Jones: I am not aware that that is the case, but I am not sure that even those of us who are reasonably 7.39 pm computer literate can cope with a system that seems designed perversely to put as many obstacles in the way Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): As the Leader as possible. That being said, it is important that we of the House said, this motion has two parts, the first of continue with the process that the House has agreed. which deals simply with the appointment of my right Labour Members will support the motion. hon. Friend the shadow Leader of the House to the Committee to replace the former shadow Leader of the House, who is now the Labour Chief Whip. I am sure 7.43 pm that we can rely on him to speak up for Members’ Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): It is a interests in that Committee, as we can on its other delight to follow the hon. Member for Warrington members. North (Helen Jones). I think, however, that she The second part of the motion appoints the lay misunderstood the point made by my right hon. Friend members of the Committee, in line with the House’s the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), decision when it passed the Constitutional Reform and because if anybody on the Speaker’s Committee for the Governance Act 2010. That being the case, Labour Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority or the Members do not intend to oppose the motion, but I Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority had wish to raise a few concerns, which I believe are shared to apply for their own expenses in the way that Members by other hon. Members. The first, while being no reflection of Parliament are required to, they would have a greater on the probity of the members appointed to the Committee, understanding of either the problems that IPSA had in relates to how the public appointments process in general, setting up a scheme under time pressure or the mistakes which is simply reflected in this motion, seems always to that were made when it was set up. appoint people from the same charmed circle to various At the risk of boring you, Mr Speaker, I just want to public appointments. We do not have an appointments mention the first fact, which is relevant to SCIPSA. process that encourages people from all walks of life to When we do our own expenses, we have to get a barcode apply. The House will need to consider this matter if on a screen. It takes more than the number of fingers on this Committee stays in being, because we need a more my hand to get it printed out, but everyone has to have balanced set of appointments here, as we do in many it printed out. What most people do not know is that other walks of public life. when that gets posted with the receipts to IPSA, the 413 26 JANUARY 2011 414 first thing IPSA does is generate another barcode to Burton’s Foods (Moreton) stick on the bits of paper that we put a barcode on in Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House the first place. I suspect that SCIPSA should be interested do now adjourn.—(Mr Vara.) in following a claim from a Member’s PA through the Member to IPSA and in asking the IPSA members whether they tried the scheme before they imposed it on 7.47 pm people in the House of Commons. Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I draw the attention The second point on which I want to disagree with of the House to my entry in this year’s Register of the hon. Lady is that I do not think that those who Members’ Financial Interests. appoint the members of IPSA should necessarily be The Burton’s food factory in Moreton is the largest paid the same as us. It is quite clear—I say this just to private sector employer in my constituency and has make friends—that there cannot be a serious pay increase been a mainstay of employment in the communities of for Members of Parliament during this Parliament, but Moreton and Leasowe for well over half a century. The we ought to have a system to ensure that people who are site currently employs 342 people on permanent contracts, elected after the next general election get a level of pay but biscuit making is a seasonal activity so there is the whereby being a general practitioner in politics is equivalent potential for an extra 200 seasonal workers during busy to being a general practitioner in medicine. If a Member production times. It is not unusual for seasonal workers of Parliament is not worth it, we should change the to work for up to 10 months of the year. During the Member of Parliament, not lower the rate of pay. production peak last year, for example, 566 employees I believe it is wrong to say that the lay members of were working in the factory. SCIPSA should be people who represent a range of Last year the company announced a supply chain jobs throughout the economy. It is far better that they review, but only days into the new year it announced the should have had the experience of being the human shocking news that it intends to close down the entire resources and personnel director of a major company. site by the end of 2011 with the loss of all jobs. It wishes It is important that they have had some experience, as a to outsource chocolate refining for Cadbury, a specialism civil service commissioner would have had, of seeing long performed to a very exacting standard in Moreton, what appointments are like. The fact of making to an unspecified supplier. It plans to invest £7 million appointments matters most and my personal belief is in two other sites, Llantarnam in Wales and Edinburgh, that if the hon. Lady, I or any of the other right hon. as well as consolidating its distribution operations, again and hon. Members in the Chamber had been in charge to an unspecified place. of appointing members of IPSA, they would have the same kinds of talent as the present members but would We are at the beginning of the statutory 90 days of not have made the same decisions. IPSA had a virtually consultation that must by law precede redundancies. impossible job to do to begin with and it did not do it The work force, their representatives and I are determined brilliantly. I hope that SCIPSA will say to IPSA, “What to use that period in the most constructive way that we do you think you’ve done wrong and how can we ensure can to try to persuade Burton’s Foods to change its that the wrongs get righted and that further wrongs are mind about this disastrous decision. My first priority is not created in the future?” The present system, frankly, to work with all interested parties to win the battle to would be better put in a wastepaper basket and I hope save these jobs, which why I am so pleased that the that the members of SCIPSA help to do that. Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford Question put and agreed to. (Mr Prisk), is here to answer the debate tonight. I have given him advance notice of the questions with which I PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION hope he can help me, so that we can give the work force Ordered, the best chance of saving their jobs and avoiding the devastating effects that closure would have on That Dr Stella Creasy, Mr Edward Leigh, Mrs Anne McGuire and John Pugh be appointed, and that Dr William McCrea be the communities I represent. I shall return to those discharged as members of the Public Accounts Commission under considerations, but first I want to deal with the developing section 2(2)(c) of the National Audit Act 1983.—(Mr Heath.) situation in more detail. I am grateful to Burton’s Foods for agreeing to make Business without Debate available the information on which it is basing its decision, but unfortunately it has not yet delivered on that commitment. The so-called data room that will house DELEGATED LEGISLATION the information was due to be opened by Monday of Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing this week, but the most recent information I have is that Order No. 118(6)), it will not be open until Thursday. That means that two weeks of the 90-day consultation period have already CRIMINAL LAW been wasted in waiting for the promised information to That the draft Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 be provided. There are also serious worries that the (Designation of Participating Countries) (England, Wales and quality, accessibility and level of detail of the data will Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Order 2010, which was laid before this not be good enough to facilitate a testing analysis of the House on 29 November, be approved.—(Mr Vara.) company’s approach to the closure decision. I make this Question agreed to. plea to the company: for speed and transparency, please co-operate with us and make available all the information in an easily accessible way. We aim to generate different proposals that offer a viable alternative to the decisions that the company has made in its supply chain review. 415 Burton’s Foods (Moreton)26 JANUARY 2011 Burton’s Foods (Moreton) 416
[Ms Angela Eagle] Although the company is clearly experiencing difficulties in the market, the 2010 annual report shows positive Sadly, we have been in this position before with figures over the past year. Its turnover was up 4%. Burton’s Foods. In 2007, the company earmarked the Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation factory for total closure, but that was just months after were up slightly, as was its gross profit margin. Although the expiry of legal obligations it had agreed to in 2001 that was a modest performance, I note in passing that to access £4 million-worth of regional selective assistance the directors’ remuneration increased by a staggering from the regional development agency and rates rebates 97.5%, with a 119.9% increase for the highest paid from the local authority. After that closure announcement, director. That makes a startling contrast to the years of the work force were escorted off the site by security wage freezes inflicted on the work force at Moreton. guards who had been hired specifically for the purpose. So there are tough conditions to contend with in the After that rather difficult beginning, we, together with market. We all know that this requires an imaginative the work force and their representatives, and after a response, but I do not believe that the supply chain successful campaign in the local community and this review is the right one. There are good grounds for House, persuaded the company to change its mind. On believing that the production costs at the Moreton site 15 August 2007, a memorandum of understanding between have been overestimated, whereas the closure costs have the management and the Unite union, on behalf of the been underestimated. There is much in the company’s employees, was signed, saving manufacturing at the site figures to contest. and safeguarding a total of 437 jobs. In exchange for an Since the factory opened in 1953, it has been a undertaking that there would be no major restructuring dominant employer in the Leasowe and Moreton area. on the site before May 2012, the work force accepted It is not uncommon for entire families to work at the the proposed changes, some of which were painful, factory, sometimes with more than one generation on including new working practices. More painfully, there the production line at the same time. If the closure were were 500 job losses despite evidence that the company’s to go ahead, it would be devastating for many of my productivity had been increasing consistently year on year. constituents. It would decimate the local economy at a The Moreton work force have more than delivered on time when it is already fragile. The human cost cannot their side of the deal in the MOU. They have increased be overestimated. their productivity still further, despite having had pay freezes in four of the past 10 years and very modest Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): I applaud my increases in the other years. They have delivered hon. Friend for initiating this debate and for her £12.7 million-worth of cost reduction to the business concentration on the impact on Wallasey, but despite and have agreed major changes in working practices to the divisions between our two areas, people move over achieve that transformation. Let me give two examples the borders from Birkenhead to work. My plea to the that illustrate the nature of their commitment. Minister is that he does not address only the points that The Moreton factory produces the Christmas selections my hon. Friend is making. The Government have a at the high-value end of any biscuit manufacture, and welfare reform programme and want people on long-term have been responsible for increasing the sales of seasonal benefit to move into work. It is difficult anyway to products by 16%. That is four times greater than for achieve that. It is doubly difficult if the job market Burton’s main competitor and is an astonishing achievement disappears for those wishing to make the transition. in a tough and competitive environment. Likewise, the new Duels product, which was introduced relatively Ms Eagle: My right hon. Friend is right. I shall come recently, was first made in Moreton and is now to that. manufactured at the factory. The plan was for that new product to break even in 18 months, but due to the hard There are many local families who would lose more work and commitment of the managers and the marketing than one breadwinner and face serious hardship if the team, as well as the undoubted skills of the work force closure goes ahead. A closure would cause the local Wirral at Moreton, it has grown from nothing to a £20 million economy great difficulty. As an article in the Globe turnover business in just 12 months. None of the work recently pointed out, many local small businesses force could have done any better—and what is their benefit from the custom of so many employees on the reward? The sack. site, and others, such as Abbey Supplies, deal directly with Burton’s. There are serious issues about whether the memorandum of understanding has been honoured by the company. My first priority is to do all I can to save those jobs. No one is saying that conditions are anything other That is why I am glad that the Minister is here, listening than tough in the £2.2 billion biscuit sector. Commodity to the debate. It is important that in parallel I work to prices have risen substantially and the retail environment safeguard the interests of those whom I represent, makes it difficult for manufacturers to pass on extra which is why I have written to the Minister of State, costs to their customers. The company has changed Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. hands in the year following a restructuring that converted Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) seeking into new equity £137.7 million of borrowing that had a meeting with him to discuss the implications for our been loaded on to the company by a string of private local employment market, should the closure go ahead. equity owners. That has reduced the group’s interest However, I would prefer the Minister to work with me burden to a manageable level. The previous private to stop that happening. equity owners, Duke Street Capital, passed ownership Any potential closure of the site would have ramifications on to a number of parties, none of which now individually beyond the workers and their families who work at has a controlling interest, but I understand that they Burton’s Foods. Two other companies, Manor Bakeries include the Canadian Imperial Bank and Apollo Asset and Typhoo Tea, share the site with Burton’s. These Management. factories between them employ 620 more people. Executives 417 Burton’s Foods (Moreton)26 JANUARY 2011 Burton’s Foods (Moreton) 418 at Typhoo Tea have highlighted how any potential the potential for future jobs growth and enhance local closure of the Burton’s factory could cause them at least job prospects. What support could the Department £1.5 million in extra costs as they have shared agreements offer in those circumstances? on electricity, gas, drainage and stock rooms. It is My constituents who work at the plant will fight for crucial to avoid a domino effect on the site, and I wish their jobs. They will not roll over, but they need the to know what the Government could offer in the way of support and help of the Government to ensure that support to prevent that from happening in the event of there is a level playing field in grant support in all areas a closure going ahead. of this country. We heard the Prime Minister today The week before Burton’s Foods dropped the jobs promise to support private sector businesses throughout bombshell on Moreton, the Prime Minister and Michael the country, but particularly in Merseyside, and workers Heseltine had been visiting the docks in Wallasey. Indeed, at Moreton are looking to the Government to keep the the Prime Minister referred to that at Prime Minister’s promise that the Prime Minister made earlier today and questions today. The visit was part of their growth tour. support private sector jobs and promote growth. Although the Wirral Waters development is potentially At a time when families in Moreton and Leasowe are very exciting, it is a plan which by its nature cannot desperately worried about rising unemployment, I ask make progress quickly. The Government’s contention the Minister to work with me to help save the Moreton has been that the private sector will grow to fill the gap site and to secure the jobs of one of Britain’s most caused by the decision to cut public spending so quickly established, dedicated and successful work forces. and deeply, but I am sad to report to the House that we are already experiencing public sector job cuts announced 8.3 pm locally. Wirral borough council has decided to cut 1,100 of The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation its employees this year—one sixth of the total—but the and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I congratulate the hon. private sector has not filled the gap. By its announcement, Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) on securing the debate. Burton’s Foods has piled on the agony. She has raised a number of important questions, which Even prior to these announcements, Wallasey was I will seek to answer. I know from looking at the history suffering high unemployment. In December, Government of the site that this has been a vexed site and plant, so figures showed that 2,173 people were claiming jobseeker’s these are not necessarily new problems with this particular allowance. For every job vacancy, there are now business or location; she rightly alluded to that. 17 applicants, and that is before the job losses announced I was sorry to hear of the decision, which I first by Burton’s and the local authority have taken effect. learned about from the media, and then heard about That is why it is so important to fight to save these jobs. from the hon. Lady when she raised the matter in the I implore the company to think again and work with the Chamber last week. Clearly, the concern that she has employees to develop an alternative proposal that can rightly shown for the 342 employees will be shared in allow it to remain competitive in the market while the House. It is very unwelcome news and it is inevitably securing jobs at the site. a worrying time for both the employees and the families, I would be grateful if the Minister could lend his let alone the community. Having been through that support by dealing with the following questions tonight. experience myself, I understand how people often take Work is going on to formulate alternative proposals this as very much a personal issue. that will meet the company’s requirements without closing Since the company announced the factory closure the Moreton factory. Similar exercises have succeeded earlier this month, Jobcentre Plus has been in contact to in the past, but only with active Government support. offer the support of its rapid response service. The What support can the Government offer if we are able company has accepted that offer of help and the details to put together a package that will convince the company of the tailored support package that will be offered to to rethink its decision? What grants has the company the work force are currently being worked out. That applied for from the Scottish and Welsh Governments support will focus on helping Burton’s employees find to support its proposals to move jobs from Moreton, alternative employment as quickly as possible and will and can the Minister promise to match any grant offered take a number of forms. In addition to offering advice to secure those jobs in England? The company accounts on writing CVs and doing job searches, depending on for last year show a credit of £418,000 for what is required, the support package might include “the release of Government grants”. matching the employees made redundant to known job vacancies and helping individuals to identify their Can the Minister explain what these outstanding grants transferable skills and training needs to help them find are? Can he also explain what leeway, if any, the outstanding work in the local labour market. moneys may give in encouraging the company to think again? Ms Angela Eagle: Will the Minister give way? As I have already mentioned, two other businesses remain on site, Typhoo Tea and Manor Bakeries, which Mr Prisk: I will give way on that point, which is a employ 620 people between them. They have indicated precursor to the broader issues. the extra costs that they face if the Burton’s factory Ms Eagle: I understand that, but I hope that the were to close. What support can the Minister pledge in Minister has listened with some sympathy to the fact order to prevent a domino effect, putting those jobs at that 17 people are currently chasing every vacancy in risk too, if the closure were to go ahead? Wallasey. It is not a question of writing CVs; it is a The Moreton site is the only land in the area suitable question of demand and the existence and supply of for industrial development and zoned for that use. If jobs. What he describes would be important if the plant there were a closure we would need significant public were to close, but I hope that he will help us to keep it investment to ensure that it could be developed to create open. 419 Burton’s Foods (Moreton)26 JANUARY 2011 Burton’s Foods (Moreton) 420
Mr Prisk: Certainly, and my purpose in elaborating unlock £13 billion of investment that industry and on this is for people to understand the broad packages business can reinvest. When we look at the past problems available. I will then move on to the questions the hon. of the Moreton plant, which has received £3 million in Lady has raised. direct grant assistance from the public sector, we must In addition, the support package will set up an action recognise that if the business itself says that it cannot fund to help workers take up a new job, for example by make the plant viable, there is a challenge as to what the giving help with travel-to-work expenses, which relates Government can then do to change that. On the broader to the point made by the right hon. Member for Birkenhead picture, I must say that we are focused on investing in (Mr Field). As I said, redundancy can be a personal programmes such as the manufacturing advisory service, tragedy for every individual and their families, so the which is expressly designed to help strengthen and Government are committed to helping people find improve manufacturers. We are also putting £200 million alternative employment as soon as possible. into an enterprise capital fund, which is good for growth businesses. The hon. Lady referred to Burton’s existing The hon. Lady cited the disappointing GDP figures account balance, and that might be relevant, but we in support of a claim that the Government are somehow would also point to the importance of the enterprise pursuing the wrong economic strategy. In fact, the finance guarantee, which seeks to generate up to £2 billion Office for National Statistics has made it perfectly clear of additional lending—again, an important issue in that the fall in GDP was largely driven by the weather that sector. late last year, when we experienced the coldest December since records began. In looking at the figures, it is On the broader issue of adult apprenticeships, the noticeable that the manufacturing sector, which we are additional investment of £250 million is very important, talking about today, was in fact performing well. because, as the north-west economy restructures and we see good success—for example, in the aerospace and Ms Eagle: Will the Minister give way? automotive sector—the need for more adult apprenticeships will be crucial. That is why we are seeking to expand Mr Prisk: I am happy to do so, but I am trying to get their number, so that the opportunity for the hon. to the hon. Lady’s points. Lady’s constituents and those in neighbouring areas is significant, enabling them to retrain where other businesses Ms Eagle: I understand that and thank the hon. cannot prosper. Gentleman for giving way. In the spirit of trying to work together to find a positive solution, I did not play Mr Frank Field: Will the Minister give way? politics with the issue and did not mention the GDP figures. I am trying to see whether the Department for Mr Prisk: Yes, then I shall move on to the specific Business, Innovation and Skills will be able to offer issues that the hon. Lady raised positive help to save the jobs. We all know what has to happen, and I would wish to discuss that with the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, Mr Field: One key point that my hon. Friend made the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris was that, in the situation under discussion, we have a Grayling), who is responsible for employment, if the very specific group of employers who are very clever at worst happens and the factory closes. However, I wanted managing public sector support for their industry; and this Minister to be here so that we could try to save the one question that she asked was whether the Minister jobs, and I deliberately did not mention yesterday’s knows whether the Welsh Assembly Government or the GDP figures because I did not want to get into a party Scottish Government are issuing support to entice the political argument about economics. I am trying to help firm away from Moreton, because it enjoys taxpayer my constituents to get by and to save local jobs, and I support. If they are, can the Government—the English am a little disappointed that he has claimed that I Government—match what the Welsh and Scottish mentioned the figures. Governments are offering?
Mr Prisk: I am trying to set out the context of where Mr Prisk: I am going to address the specifics of the we are, because it is important for understanding why hon. Lady’s questions, but I wanted to ensure, as the some factories are closed and others are prospering. It right hon. Gentleman rightly points out, that we looked is important to remember that we are seeing record at the context, because there are good manufacturing output levels in manufacturing as a whole, although stories to be told in the north-west, and it is important clearly there will be individual factories, to which the to stress that. hon. Lady has rightly alluded, where there are specific The hon. Lady referred, first, to the alternative proposals, circumstances, such as the way own-brand goods are in which I know she is actively engaged, and she asked damaging the food and drink industry’s manufacturing what might happen if they were successful. We have a side, that might lead them to close. We need to understand problem, because Burton’s has decided to wind down its the reasons behind individual factory closures and why business and to reinvest elsewhere. I shall turn to the some parts of the manufacturing sector are prospering Scottish numbers in a moment, because we have made in the north-west and others are not. That is the context specific inquiries. It is therefore very difficult, at this that I am trying to set out. moment, for the Government to try in any way to We feel at this stage that the crucial thing that industry override a decision if the company wishes to move from needs more than anything is certainty and clarity on the that location to elsewhere—however frustrating I am overall picture. That is why we are cutting the corporation sure that will be for the hon. Lady. If the company does tax rate from 28p to 24p, which will result in the UK not wish to remain on that site, it is very difficult for the having the lowest corporation tax rate of the G7 nations. Government to change the fundamentals of that particular That matters for an important reason: by 2016 it will business. 421 Burton’s Foods (Moreton)26 JANUARY 2011 Burton’s Foods (Moreton) 422
On the Scottish Government grants that have been facts and itemised numbers on that. She said that the allegedly applied for, we have made specific inquiries to data centre that the company offered is not yet operational. try to help the hon. Lady, and at the moment we If we get that information from the other companies understand that no detailed discussions have taken through the RDA, we will bring it to her. It is difficult place between the company and the authorities. There for me, in the circumstances, to make a commitment at has been an initial discussion, but no business plan, this moment, but I am happy to come back to her in due details or finance plan have been discussed. The location course when we have more information on that issue. in question in Scotland would not qualify for regional The hon. Lady said that the Moreton site was effectively selective assistance, however, so we wait to find out the only land in the area that is suitable for industrial what the discussions may or may not be about between development and zoned for that use. She asked what the Burton’s and the Scottish authorities. I have asked my situation would be if there was a closure, because it officials to monitor the situation closely, and if we could be serious. A number of avenues are open, and I receive that information we will of course share it with urge her to work with business and civic leaders in this the hon. Lady, so that she is able, in her local discussions, area, as I know she already is. She mentioned the to deal with it. She will appreciate, however, that at this regional growth fund, the first round of which closed moment and at this Dispatch Box it is very difficult and, today. indeed, probably inappropriate for me to second guess what may or may not be offered. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP) rose— On the question of the company’s accounts for last year, which show a credit of £418,000 for, as the hon. Mr Prisk: We are in the last minute of the debate, so I Lady put it, will not give way. “the release of Government grants”, The £1.4 billion regional growth fund has been set up. we have spoken to the Northwest Regional Development The first round has closed, but the second has not. The Agency, and I am disappointed to tell her that, as of an hon. Lady might want to consider that. In addition, hour ago, it has not been able to provide us with that there is the £1.5 billion business growth fund that the information. I have pressed upon the RDA the need for banks have established to deliver investment. As I said, it, and the moment I receive a reply I shall of course if things do not work out, Jobcentre Plus help is available. share it with the hon. Lady, so that she can understand I appreciate the difficulties in the hon. Lady’s area, the background to the situation and what and it is important that we remain in conversation and “the release of Government grants” contact on this matter. It is early days, but I hope that a actually means. satisfactory conclusion can be reached. At this moment, it would be unwise of me to make a carte blanche offer The hon. Lady referred to two other businesses, of help in monetary terms, because we are not fully Typhoo Tea and Manor Bakeries. She asked whether conversant with the facts. When we are, I will be happy there is a danger of a domino effect because the security to have further conversations with her, or her neighbouring and amenities on the site are shared. I am concerned colleagues if that is appropriate. On that note, I will that the closure of the plant should not have unreasonable draw my remarks to a— adverse effects on the neighbouring businesses. I am not familiar with the exact site and with what those effects might be, and I am not sure whether it would be 8.17 pm £1.5 million, £2 million or £3 million. However, we are House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order in direct contact with the RDA to establish the specific No. 9(7)).
77WH 26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 78WH
pay tribute to the people of Wootton Bassett and Westminster Hall surrounding areas. The Royal British Legion in Malmesbury, Chippenham, Calne and other parts come into the town, often once or twice in a week, in all Wednesday 26 January 2011 weathers without fail, to bow their heads for two seconds in tribute to the coffins of the fallen that come back [MR CLIVE BETTS in the Chair] through the town. I think, looking back to the first of those occasions, that I was the only person there. It was after the tragic downing of flight XV179, the Hercules The Army and RAF Lyneham that was brought down in Iraq. I and the TV crews saw Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the 10 coffins coming through the high street. I said to be now adjourned.—(Mr Dunne.) the crews, “Turn off your cameras and we will go and pay our respects on the pavement.” Ever since then, the 9.30 am people of Wootton Bassett have turned out in great numbers week by week. They do not want any thanks Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): It is a for it. They do it just because that is their civic duty and pleasure to have the opportunity to have this debate, because they support the armed services, but none the and to sit under your able chairmanship, Mr Betts. I am less they stand proxy for the grief of the nation and it is sure that the debate will be orderly and sensible with right that we, here, should pay tribute to them. As we you looking after it. see the beginning of the end of those ceremonies, I hope I am here to talk about an extraordinarily important that whichever place takes over the sad repatriation event for the people of North Wiltshire. The influence duties, whether that will be RAF Brize Norton or of RAF Lyneham in the community is extremely great, somewhere else, it will find some similar way of marking and the proposed closure of the RAF element of the the occasion when the bodies are brought back to the base would, if nothing else were to be done about it, nation. have a devastating effect. I thank my hon. Friends who This week there was a photograph in The Daily have attended, particularly those from the county of Telegraph of one of the last “Fat Albert” C-130s being Wiltshire—my hon. Friends the Members for Salisbury carried by road past the iconic pillared town hall of (John Glen) and for Chippenham (Duncan Hames). I Wootton Bassett. Seeing the end of RAF Lyneham also offer apologies from my hon. Friends the Members coming down through the high street brought home a for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) and for Devizes message to us all. (Claire Perry), both of whom would have been here but unfortunately had to be elsewhere. We have, I think, We in Wiltshire will say a sad farewell to the RAF. unanimous support from Wiltshire Members, but I also The nearby Yatesbury base still has the first world war see other hon. Friends with an interest in Wiltshire and officers’ mess and hangars of the RAF, which was am glad that they have taken the trouble to be here this founded there roughly 100 years ago. Ever since then morning. the RAF has had a home in Wiltshire. Sadly, when it leaves Lyneham later this year a long and distinguished I shall start by doing something one should never do, link with the RAF will end. which is to disobey the Prime Minister. This time last week, Councillor Mary Champion, the mayor of Wootton Many people in the area are retired from the RAF. Bassett, her deputy, Councillor Heaphy and Johnathan We thank the RAF for what it has done and say Bourne, the town clerk, had the great honour of being goodbye with great sadness. We have fought long and invited to No. 10 Downing street to see the Prime hard against the suggestion that the Hercules fleet should Minister, so that the Prime Minister could thank them be moved to Brize Norton. I continue to believe that and the people of Wootton Bassett for the efforts that that is the wrong decision, but sadly it was taken too they make in paying tribute to our fallen heroes as they long ago to be reversed and we have now come to accept come back down through Wootton Bassett high street. the reality that the RAF will leave. The last flights will One of the things that the Prime Minister said to the be in August and September, and the base will be finally mayor at that very pleasant meeting was, “Whatever vacated by December 2012. We regret that and think you do, please don’t let James start banging on about that it is a wrong decision but have come to accept it as Lyneham. He’s always banging on about Lyneham.” a fait accompli; there is nothing else we can do about it. I am sorry to have to say to the Prime Minister that I So we say a sad farewell to the RAF and look forward intend to continue to bang on about Lyneham as long to what will happen in the future. as I possibly can, to the boredom of all who will listen, I am concerned about the possibility that nothing will until we find a satisfactory solution, to avoid the potential happen in the future, which is something that we have catastrophe that would occur for my constituency if seen elsewhere; my own Government foolishly closed Lyneham were to be closed and nothing else were to be RAF Wroughton nearby and left it vacant for many done. The issue is a huge one and I have taken a keen years. Vandals moved in and the value declined, and the interest in it, and campaigned long and hard on it, over economy was damaged as a result. The same happened five or six years. It is about 12 months ago that we had a only 15 or 20 years ago when the Army left Corsham. debate in this Chamber to discuss whether it was right Again, it was left vacant for a long time, the economy that the RAF should leave the base. I am afraid I intend went down and the result was catastrophic. to keep up that effort until we come up with the right Whatever happens to RAF Lyneham when the RAF solution. leaves, we must re-use the site swiftly and cleanly. We Before I move on to the substance of the matter, it is must not allow Defence Estates to sit on it, or the perhaps right, as we face the beginning of the end of vandals to move in. We must find a quick and speedy repatriation ceremonies through Wootton Bassett, to solution. After all, the local economy depends to a 79WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 80WH
[Mr James Gray] come back to in a second or two. We believe that a flexible brigade could fit into Lyneham. The base may significant degree on the base. Something like 3,400 jobs be slightly too small, but there could be room for a are directly or indirectly dependent on it, according to multi-role brigade. Failing that, there are a number of a recent survey by Wiltshire council. About £90 million smaller units located around the area. One thinks of within the local economy comes from Lyneham. If the Colerne in which the Signal Regiment is based. Nearby site were to be left vacant and nothing were to happen Hullavington houses one of the two Royal Logistics there it would be a disaster for the local economy. I am Corps Regiments in the area, the other one being in glad to say that two or three commercial interests are South Cerney. There are a number of other similar taking a keen interest in the site. I am working closely small units dotted around the area that could usefully with them and will be keen to encourage them in every be co-located at Lyneham, thereby saving a lot of money. possible way and try to find other uses for the site. There are difficulties with that, but there are some It has also been said that the university air squadrons, commercial possibilities for the site, and I welcome that. which are dotted around the place, could reuse the hardstanding at Lyneham. The base, therefore, could By far the strongest sense of what one might call either house a multi-role brigade or be used for co-location. local unanimity is on the point that when the RAF Someone else mentioned the Anglo-French rapid reaction leaves later this year we would like the Army to return corps. I know that the people of North Wiltshire would to the site. We were therefore much encouraged by what very much welcome French service personnel if indeed the Prime Minister had to say during his statement on they were to form part of the rapid reaction corps. The the strategic defence and security review. He told the fact that we have the RAF infrastructure on the base House that there would be means that we can deploy people rapidly. There are “changes in the way in which some RAF bases are used, but some thousands of square feet of hardstanding, hangars and are likely to be required by the Army as forces return from an air traffic control building, which would be useful Germany. We owe it to communities up and down the country assets in the rapid deployment of forces, whether they who have supported our armed forces for many years to engage be the Anglo-French rapid reaction corps, special forces with them before final decisions are taken.”—[Official Report, or others. 19 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 798.] Well, there is no community, up and down the land, that Lyneham has a number of significant assets that has supported our armed forces more than that of could be offered to the Army. Without delaying the Lyneham, Wootton Bassett, Calne and the surrounding House too much, let me quickly run through them. area. I hope that the vacated RAF Lyneham base will Lyneham is a 1,359 acre site, which is much bigger than be one of the most attractive for the Army returning any other RAF or Army base. It is fully equipped and from Germany. will be vacant by 2012 at the latest. The last flights are scheduled for August or September this year. However, We believe that Lyneham, unlike one or two of the if the Army wanted to move into the base sooner, I dare other bases around Britain that are similarly making say that the RAF could hasten its exit. bids for the Army, has some unique selling propositions. First, we have an immensely strong military connection. Lyneham’s main asset is its location. It is 20 miles at Half the British Army is in Wiltshire. Wiltshire is a most from Salisbury plain—just a few minutes’ flying military place. It is an agricultural place. It is a place of time. It is close to all sorts of other training assets and market towns and villages, a place of high-tech industries to the M4, so Wales is not far away. There is a large —we must not forget that—but it is predominantly, number of training bases across the county, and the site overwhelmingly, agricultural and military. The whole is close to London, Berkshire and elsewhere. Therefore, ethos of the place is military. Many of the people are it is ideally located for training. ex-military and the people in the area support the military. I suspect that things would be quite different in Some other parts of the RAF are being located some other bases where local people would, frankly, elsewhere. It would be wrong of me to mention any breathe a sigh of relief as they said goodbye to the bases in particular. However, I must say that last night, military presence in their constituency. The people of I attended the Adjournment debate of the right hon. North Wiltshire would very much welcome the Army. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell). I support what he had to say, and he said it The dossier that I presented to the Minister this very well. None the less, Leuchars would be quite morning included letters from Wiltshire council, Lyneham different in terms of training areas, as would Lossiemouth. parish council, Wootton Bassett parish council, the Lyneham, on the other hand, is at the heart of the chamber of commerce and a number of other people, military and offers real training space. all of whom are saying that they would like the Army to come to Lyneham. As nothing in this world is unanimous, Although I am not privy to the MOD’s sometimes I will no doubt be hearing from some people who do arcane accounting procedures—one chap understood not agree with me. None the less, the overwhelming them, but he died some years ago—we all know, I think, feeling in North Wiltshire is that we would like the that when the Army comes back in very large numbers Army to come to Lyneham. There is also a strong from Germany, the MOD will not have vast sums of benefit of such a move for the Ministry of Defence money to spend on it. Among other things, the Army itself. will need substantial accommodation and training facilities for its military personnel. Our first unique selling proposition is that we strongly support the military. As to who we would like to see At its peak, Lyneham housed 3,500 RAF personnel coming in, I have a number of possible answers. The and their families. There is a married quarters estate of Prime Minister has announced that some 15,000 soldiers 610 houses for other ranks and 155 houses for officers, are returning from Germany, the details of which I will which will largely be vacated by 2014 at the latest, 81WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 82WH although I understand that a number are already occupied 9 Supply Regiment Royal Logistics Corps and Bassingbourn by soldiers from the 9 Supply Regiment Royal Logistics and Abingdon are both good examples of reusing RAF Corps. sites for the Army. There are 20 barrack blocks with 892 good-quality In addition to the military infrastructure that is readily rooms. One block has multi-occupancy-rooms—two-man available to the Army, there is good local infrastructure. bedrooms—and four blocks have en-suite rooms, which Although Lyneham is predominantly a military village, is quite unusual. The sergeants’ mess has 210 rooms and the schools, roads, and shops are all in place. The Army the officers’ mess 135. Taking all the accommodation could move in tomorrow and it would find that the together, there are more than 2,000 bed spaces available, civilian infrastructure was available. I was recently at a and they are available today, or as soon as the RAF meeting with the head of the local primary school, who leaves. The Army could literally march in as the RAF was very concerned that the RAF was leaving the area. flies out. The school is first class and was recently reopened by Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cornwall. It could The other ranks’ dining room has capacity for be available for use by the Army tomorrow. Very few 1,000 people. There is a large Navy, Army and Air places in the area could offer that kind of facility. Force Institute building, a Spar shop and every kind of sports facility—fitness suites, sports hall, tennis courts, It seems that we in Lyneham are offering just what squash courts, trim trail, four rugby and football pitches, the Army needs. There is an additional, if not slightly a cricket square and a bowling alley. There is just about negative, reason why the MOD should consider Lyneham’s everything that one could possibly want by way of facilities. There could be problems with regard to the sporting facilities. Moreover, there is ample space for base if the Army were not to use it. It appears that there building a new barrack block or other facilities if they is a Crichel Down problem. I think that some 60 owners were needed. are laying some claim to the base and it could take some time—potentially, although not necessarily—for the Crichel The whole site is secure. The fence has recently been Down thing to go through. However, that issue certainly redone. There is some 14 km of fence around the site. needs further examination. Furthermore, if the base Inside the wire, there are training facilities that include were to be handed over to civilian use there would a lecture theatre and conference room, a training centre doubtless have to be a significant level of decontamination, with three classrooms, various small classrooms, a 25-metre which would obviously have to be done to remove rifle range, a respirator testing chamber and a four-lane explosives, oil and other materials from the site. If that dismounted combat trainer, all of which would be were to happen and the site were left vacant for a time, useful for an incoming Army unit. The camp has several there would be all the costs of maintaining the site headquarters buildings, an unlimited supply of office during the period that it was vacant, so there would be a space—the RAF seems to need a large numbers of significant cost to the Treasury of not doing something offices, but the Army needs rather fewer. The site has a with the site swiftly. total of 12 hangars, with 52,000 square metres of internal storage space. It has about 50 hectares of runways and So, from the point of the view of the Army, RAF parking areas, which could presumably be used as Lyneham is fcalhighly attractive and from the point of hardstanding for all sorts of things. For example, there view of the MOD, RAF Lyneham is a useful solution to could be helicopter or fixed-wing rapid deployments a problem that it has. The MOD has been instructed to from the base. The extensive runways would also be bring 15,000 soldiers in total back from Germany and it useful. is currently considering what to do with them. The use The site has vast military transport facilities. I am of the site is also a useful solution from the point of told that it has an 81,000 litre diesel and 27,000 litre view of the local area, which will face economic catastrophe petrol kerbside facility, an air traffic control building, if the Army does not use the site or if there is no fire services, explosives stores and so on. There are also alternative commercial use for it. Actually, marching first-class, recently rebuilt medical and dental centres. the Army in as the RAF flies out some time later this The infrastructure is all there. Although some parts of year—I suppose that now it would have to happen next it may be a little tired, the MOD has, none the less, year—seems to be an extremely neat solution to a recently spent £5 million on upgrading the base. As I variety of problems. We have what the Army needs; understand it, the standards required by the Army are the Army needs us; the Treasury needs Lyneham, and slightly lower than those required by the RAF.Although the local area needs the Army and would welcome the the RAF may think some of the facilities are a little Army, as local people have made very clear. Also, I tired, I suspect that the Army would say, “This is think that the nation owes a little bit to RAF Lyneham significantly better than some of the places that we have and Wootton Bassett for all that they have done in found elsewhere.” recent years. I appreciate that the standard of accommodation in So I hope that the Minister will listen carefully to the Germany is very high, as it should be, so if we are debate this morning. I am glad that we have such a large bringing soldiers back, we will have to offer them equivalent number of people here supporting our efforts. I do not accommodation. In short, after a bit of rebuilding and imagine that the Minister will do anything other than tidying up, the site could be a most worthwhile base at a listen carefully and nod wisely. I am not asking him to minimum cost to the MOD. If the MOD were to take answer my requests straight away. However, I hope that over a less well supplied base, the cost would be considerable. he will listen carefully to what I have said; that he and There are, of course, many examples of RAF bases his officials will read the dossier that I have given them; being reused by the Army across England. In my own and that we have at least been able to add some knowledge constituency, RAF Hullavington is now home to the to the consideration that I know is currently going on 83WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 84WH
[Mr James Gray] of course, its pupils are 30% to 40% RAF, so we would have primary and secondary school places immediately among large numbers of people at the MOD. I believe available in the surrounding area, if necessary. that Lyneham would be ideal for the Army and I also believe that the Army needs Lyneham. Thomas Docherty: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I hope that the Minister will be 9.51 am able to go slightly further and give a guarantee that, as part of the assessment that I am sure he is making, there Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): will be a proper assessment of the current capacity for Thank you for calling me, Mr Betts. It is a pleasure to education of returning service personnel’s children and, serve under your chairmanship today. if necessary, a guarantee that additional funds will be First, I want to congratulate the hon. Member for provided to any of the military bases—or rather, the North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) on securing this excellent local authorities in whose areas the military bases are debate and on the way in which he has made his case so located—that are chosen to house returning personnel, eloquently. He and I have attended a number of debates to ensure that we do not have a surplus of demand over in the past few months, which were secured by the hon. capacity and so that no local authority is left with Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) and, challenges as a result. I accept the hon. Gentleman’s as he has mentioned, the right hon. and learned Member point that the schools in his local area already have that for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell). capacity, but I nevertheless hope that the Minister will What is very clear is the deeply held affection that carry out a proper assessment of this issue. communities up and down the United Kingdom have Regarding the accommodation of service personnel for their military bases, which has been demonstrated and their families, I would be grateful if the Minister by their Members of Parliament. I am sure that we all were to tell the Chamber whether the MOD is confident pay tribute to the community around RAF Lyneham that all accommodation at RAF Lyneham is of the for the way in which it, as the hon. Member for North highest standard. If it is not, can he say what the Wiltshire has said, has conducted itself and supported timetable is for bringing it up to a suitable standard? our gallant and fallen service personnel on their return from overseas. As the hon. Member for North Wiltshire will recall, we touched on the final issue that I want to raise with I simply wish to make a few observations to the the Minister today in last night’s Adjournment debate. I Minister to tease out some answers, as the hon. Gentleman have a long-standing concern that the MOD has perhaps has already tried to do. The Minister will obviously be not always carried out its decision making in a duly aware that a large number of troops are due to return transparent way and has not sought to ensure that the from overseas in the next few years. Obviously, he will communities affected by its decisions are the first to also be aware that when the Chief of the Defence Staff know about them. I hope that the Minister can give a appeared before the Select Committee on Defence, of guarantee today that not only will the process for any which I am a member, he introduced a note of caution decision making on the return of troops and their about the timetabling for the return of the troops from stationing within the UK be conducted in a clear manner Germany. and that he will share the details of that process with It will probably not surprise you, Mr Betts, or indeed the House and the Defence Committee, but that he will the Chamber, that two issues in particular concerned do everything within his power to ensure that the the CDS, and it is fair to say that those concerns were communities affected by those decisions are the first to shared by the Defence Committee—I say that as I look know about them, then the House and lastly the media, at the hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen), who is rather than what has unfortunately happened in the also a member of that Committee. The first was the past, where the media have found out about decisions issue of the troops’ families. As the hon. Member for before the communities affected by them. North Wiltshire has already said, it is not simply a case I want to end by again congratulating the hon. Member of bringing home 15,000 servicemen and women, because for North Wiltshire on securing this debate and on his their families will obviously need to be accommodated. powerful words. I remind the Minister that, according to his own Department’s figures, accommodation for some 25,000 9.57 am personnel within the defence estate of the United Kingdom is considered to be not of the highest standard, and my John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): First, I pay tribute understanding is that there are currently no plans to to my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire upgrade that accommodation. (Mr Gray) for securing this debate. As someone who The second issue that concerned the CDS, as he grew up in north Wiltshire and who is aware of the pointed out when he appeared before the Defence footprint that RAF Lyneham has in the local area and Committee, is how we will educate the children of the in the county more widely, I also pay tribute to the work returning service personnel. I do not wish to repeat the that my hon. Friend has done during the past seven argument that the hon. Member for North Wiltshire years in campaigning to keep the RAF at Lyneham and and I had during consideration of the Armed Forces to the work that he is now doing, as he reflects the Bill about how to educate those children, but there is a reality of the decisions that have been made, looks to very real issue about the schooling that we need to the future and seeks a constructive way forward. provide for all the children of returning personnel. I speak as both a Wiltshire MP and as a member of the Select Committee on Defence. It seems to me that Mr Gray: It is worth paying tribute to the first-class there are three significant reasons why this case for Wootton Bassett comprehensive school, which is two or having the Army come to RAF Lyneham needs to be three miles down the road from Lyneham. At the moment, carefully examined. 85WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 86WH
The first reason is that it is quite clear that there is Army, it needs to be worked out and dealt with quickly huge symbolic significance to RAF Lyneham and its and sensibly, rather than allowing internal wrangling in relationship with Wootton Bassett. It is impossible for the Ministry of Defence to stop progress. the Government to pay great tribute, with one voice, to The case seems very clear: Lyneham is a symbolic the people of Wootton Bassett, which is just a few miles home of the armed forces and should continue to be so, down the road from RAF Lyneham, for all that they whether for the RAF or the Army. There is an absolutely have done to recognise the huge contribution of all sound economic case for that, and it also presents an those who have fallen in battle, and at the same time, effective, practical solution to a problem that will need with another voice as it were, not to go out of their way to be dealt with over the next 10 years. An Army base at to recognise the impact that this decision, if it does not Lyneham makes sense, but we must ensure that it happens go the right way, would have on the local community. quickly, so that the people there can have some reassurance Effectively, RAF Lyneham is the gateway between the after their massive contribution over the past 10 years. UK and Afghanistan, and over many years the people of the surrounding area have made a massive contribution to the well-being of service personnel’s families. 10.4 am The motto of RAF Lyneham is “Support, Save and Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I congratulate Supply”. As my hon. Friend has set out fully this my neighbour, the hon. Member for North Wiltshire morning, the opportunities for RAF Lyneham to continue (Mr Gray), on securing the debate and, in particular, on to serve the armed forces—in this case, the Army—are the dexterity and skill that went into securing a 90-minute significant. The infrastructure is in place, and I do not one, which affords many more of us the opportunity to need to point to the long history over the past 50 years participate. I rise primarily to demonstrate the shared of the people of Lyneham and Wootton Basset’s service interests of my constituents and his. to the nation, but the decision has clearly been made to Despite Wiltshire being a rural county, it has great move the RAF to Brize Norton. We have to acknowledge, affection for Lyneham and the RAF there. As we have however, that we cannot make such decisions wholly heard, ordinary Wiltshire people, far beyond the confines without emotion and without respect for the wider of Wootton Bassett, share in the honourable act of issues at play in the vicinity. respect for our fallen, and I have on occasion bumped The second reason is the economic value of RAF into Chippenham residents after a repatriation there. Lyneham. The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Even before I was elected to Parliament, I was privileged Fife (Thomas Docherty) knows that the Defence to have the opportunity to visit RAF Lyneham as part Committee, of which I, too, am a member, looks at the of the excellent Supporting Britain’s Reservists and strategic issues, but the economic arguments are massive. Employers programme—SaBRE—where we saw a well There are about 2,500 civilian and military personnel at maintained, busy base, which clearly had a number of Lyneham, and several thousand acres of land are connected people who lived further afield than the base participating with the base. The impact on the local economy has in the effort. That is an important consideration in our been estimated at about £90 million a year, so if Lyneham approach to the future for Lyneham. were to no longer have a significant military footprint, a My honourable neighbour has made a comprehensive considerable gap would be left which, as the chairman case for the military benefits of the Army coming to of Wootton Bassett chamber of commerce has pointed Lyneham, and I recognise that that must be the primary out, would be unsustainable. If the decision does not go basis for any decisions, but it is important that I take the the right way, there will be a direct adverse impact on opportunity to set out some more of the economic the economy of Wootton Bassett. consequences of the current situation. We have heard that the estimated contribution to the economy of the Thirdly and finally, the strategic defence and security MOD’s involvement at RAF Lyneham is some £90 million review has reached some uncomfortable conclusions, a year, and my constituents voluntarily raise the topic of and it has made some difficult assessments of what that economic impact with me. The impact is felt over a needs to happen over the next 10 years, driven by the wide area, and is reflected in the wide array of partners acknowledged financial mess that the Government have that have come together under his chairmanship of the inherited. With 10,000 to 15,000 troops returning to the Lyneham taskforce, as it has sought to put together a UK, we need to find the right situation for them to vision for Lyneham. Members of the taskforce include locate to, and it is absolutely clear that in Wiltshire the the South West regional development agency, Wiltshire Army has a very welcoming home. In my constituency council, Westlea—our local social landlord—and, and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes importantly I would argue, the Wessex association of (Claire Perry), there are so many strategic reasons why chambers of commerce, which, among representatives it would make sense for the Army to locate to Lyneham. of business groups has a very acute understanding of It has been suggested that the Royal Logistics Corps the concerns of businesses in the area, and is an association could move from South Cerney and Hullavington to the of which I was a member until May last year. Lyneham base, but a number of other options are available. I am pleased to report a conversation with the chairman of Chippenham chamber of commerce, who is very I ask the Minister for a timely decision, because keen for the Army to come to Lyneham. The chamber is considerable ongoing debate would leave the local economy very concerned about the widespread and, from the open to lots of uncertainty. If that is not possible, we point of view of ordinary members, hard to quantify must ensure that we put in place a clear plan for the consequences of leaving Lyneham empty. I suppose economic regeneration of the area, and allow the options that we must consider that we might be unsuccessful in to be fully explored and quickly executed. If there is a our calls today, for it will not be easy for either Wiltshire problem with the transfer of assets from the RAF to the or the Ministry of Defence, to achieve alternative futures 87WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 88WH
[Duncan Hames] Lyneham and perhaps get a trip in an aircraft. People value the connection with Lyneham, which is an important for Lyneham, which the taskforce has carefully considered. point for the future. Nevertheless, it is important that the Minister is aware that there is an easy alternative. Mr Gray: I thank my hon. Friend for being here to With level heads, the members of the taskforce have speak in support of this debate. He is absolutely right. considered the future aviation use of the airfield and In my 14 years as a Member of Parliament for Lyneham, have concluded that a commercial airport development I do not remember a single letter of complaint from any at RAF Lyneham would be wholly inappropriate. I constituent. There was one exception when a clay pigeon echo the views expressed earlier in the debate of the shoot was being held too near the wire—we had it importance of a timely decision. Too many communities moved—but with regard to military activity, I cannot in other parts of the country have seen areas blighted remember a single complaint. because unused defence assets have been hung on to, which ultimately leads to a very expensive regeneration Mr Syms: That certainly reinforces my point that effort. It is certainly the view of people in Wiltshire that north Wiltshire and the military have had a close we need a clear future for Lyneham before very long. relationship. As my hon. Friend has said, Lyneham is a tremendous asset, given its sporting facilities and existing Without wishing to stray too far from the subject, housing. I do not know what condition it is in—the there are lengthy debates about housing development in hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Wiltshire, and it is important to recognise that there are Docherty) made a good point about the state of the no easy get-outs to be had from taking such advantage defence estate; we must ensure that our armed service of the land in Lyneham. Surely it is essential that any personnel have good-quality homes—but it is a material future development in Wiltshire involves sustainable factor. communities. It would be a travesty if we built housing developments that did not provide jobs for the people Lyneham is not only a good base for deploying units living in our communities. Considering the large population from Germany on military grounds, because we should expansions that even Wiltshire council still seems to pay attention to what is good for armed service personnel’s desire in places such as Chippenham, we cannot afford families. There are homes near the base, but there are to remove many jobs, which would create a great imbalance also a wide range of homes in the community for those in the local economy. who wish to buy. It is an RAF tradition for people to live in all the communities around the base including Importantly, although the site is large, not all of it is not only Swindon, but Chippenham, Calne, Wootton suitable for development. We must consider the potential Bassett and Malmesbury—a lot of personnel have become agricultural returns on the site, if it were not successfully part of local communities. North Wiltshire is an incredibly reused by the Ministry of Defence. I urge the Department good place to live. It is conveniently located for the not to see the land as an asset to be sweated or a cash training grounds on Salisbury plain and in south Wales. cow presenting financial benefit, or to use that as a I consider it a no-brainer to use Lyneham for a good reason not to support the exceptionally well-developed military purpose. case made by all the partners under the leadership of my neighbour the hon. Member for North Wiltshire. I My hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Duncan invite the Minister to consider in particular our anxiety Hames) made the good point that, with the RAF going, for a swift decision about the future of Lyneham and a swift decision is sensible, so that we can make use of the community’s immense appetite for its continued this tremendous asset and locate the military somewhere association with the Ministry of Defence. It is an that they can train and base their families, with good-quality opportunity for us, as a community, to show our hospitality schools and education and a supportive community. to the Army. That would be a good decision for the MOD, serving personnel and their families and the people of north Wiltshire, who have done a lot to support the military 10.11 am and will continue to do so. Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray), 10.14 am who has campaigned assiduously for Lyneham and for Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): I, investment in his constituency. I was born in Chippenham too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North and, like my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury Wiltshire (Mr Gray) on securing this important debate (John Glen), I grew up in north Wiltshire. I therefore and on his work to support and champion the armed feel that I should make a brief contribution to support services generally as chairman and founder of the all-party my hon. Friend and say that the key factor about RAF parliamentary group for the armed forces. He hosts Lyneham is how much support it has had from local troops returning from Afghanistan here in the House of communities. Commons, and I know that he served with the Honourable Lyneham, with its Hercules fleet, generates a lot of Artillery Company, so he has a personal understanding noise but precious few complaints. I lived in the area of the armed services. He has also been a champion and during the Falklands war, when lots of Chinook helicopters advocate for RAF Lyneham and his constituents for were ferrying supplies at all times of the day. Local many years. I commend him on his tenacity in ensuring people show great support for the RAF, and the RAF that the future of the base remains on the political has been a good neighbour. Indeed, some of the biggest agenda, despite the sad news that the RAF will be arguments that I have seen at local parish councils leaving Lyneham, with final vacant possession by December concern whose turn it is to go to the open day at 2012. 89WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 90WH
It is right to pay tribute to the local community for its reside in the county as a whole, the local area would support of the armed services. We have all seen the need to change little if Lyneham, as we hope, becomes poignant tributes on television in which local people an Army base. As my hon. Friend has informed us, and others from far afield pay homage to the fallen letters of support from the local community and the servicemen and women repatriated from Afghanistan chamber of commerce are a clear indication that that is who land at RAF Lyneham and then proceed through desired across the board. Wootton Bassett High street. It stands out in all our In conclusion, I agree that rehousing returning troops minds. Those residents express the gratitude that our at Lyneham would provide the Army with a large, nation feels to those who sacrifice their lives to protect convenient and well-resourced base close to major training our freedoms and way of life. That symbol of local areas and other military sites and offering readily accessible support never fails to move me. It is one of the reasons family accommodation. It is overwhelmingly clear that why, to my mind, RAF Lyneham is well placed to local people would welcome it, which is far from guaranteed become a new home for the Army. As my hon. Friend elsewhere. There are prevailing reasons why serious and has pointed out, people in the area have unwillingly urgent consideration should be given to moving the accepted that Lyneham will cease to be an RAF base by Army to the site as soon as possible. 2012. That is not to say that acceptance has been easy, but he has been resolute in championing Lyneham and making the case against its closure. 10.19 am It is with a heavy heart that the people of North Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): I am Wiltshire must say a sad farewell to the harmonious grateful, Mr Betts, for the opportunity to speak in this bond that they have had with the RAF for 80 years. debate. May I join the tributes to my neighbour and However, the new Government have given at least some hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray)? encouraging news. We were all heartened to hear my For many years, he has done his level best to maintain right hon. Friend the Prime Minister’s announcement the presence of the Royal Air Force at Lyneham. Indeed, that as part of the strategic defence security review, prior to the election, I had several conversations with which other hon. Members have mentioned, our service him about his work, and I was struck in particular by personnel will return from Germany and some of them the report that he and others prepared before the election. will be rehoused on a redundant RAF base. I take this It outlined the very basis on which he secured today’s opportunity to echo some of my hon. Friend’s sensible debate, and it argued that civilian use of the Lyneham arguments why Lyneham has much to offer as a home airfields was not appropriate, that the clean-up costs for to some of our returning troops, but first, giving examples the area would be considerable and that logic therefore from my own experience, I will explain why maintaining dictated that military use of some kind—that is, the an armed forces presence in Lyneham is of undeniable Army—was appropriate. I support that wholeheartedly. benefit. As a Territorial Army recruit, I did most of my basic Mr Gray: I am sorry for interrupting my hon. Friend’s training at the Prince of Wales barracks in Grantham, fine speech, but I want to correct him on one small which used to be an RAF base. I was posted to the point. I am absolutely committed to keeping the RAF Royal Citadel in Plymouth for six months before being at Lyneham and, after that, totally committed to getting deployed on Operation Herrick. Both camps are integral the Army on to the site, but if there is to be no military to their local communities, have a large beneficial effect use for it, I believe that we could use it for other civilian, on them and help project a positive image of the Army, commercial and industrial uses. I would certainly work with all the obvious benefits that that brings. Local with industry to try to make that possible and would areas clearly benefit socially and economically from the not rule out commercial use. presence of a military base. In Lyneham’s case, the withdrawal of service personnel Mr Buckland: Forgive me, but I was talking about from the local community would have an immense was the site’s lack of suitability for use as a civilian impact. As my hon. Friend has mentioned, the study airport. In fact, my hon. Friend the Member for commissioned by Wiltshire council in 2009 demonstrated Chippenham (Duncan Hames) also made that point. It that the gross added value to the local community would be incorrect to say that Lyneham has an unlimited would be reduced by up to £90 million. Furthermore, range of options, and it is important that we reinforce 3,400 jobs in local services, retail and other sectors were that point. I support my hon. Friend the Member for likely to become redundant, and real household disposable North Wiltshire, however, in saying that, if we cannot income would decline by about £86 million. That is an retain military use for the area, we clearly need an obvious impact on local people. He was also right to action plan for commercial use, so that we can generate mention the devastating economic consequences that much-needed jobs. the local area could face if the base closed permanently. The communities of North Wiltshire and of Wiltshire Besides the economic effects, one thing is abundantly in general have always supported the presence of the clear: the people of Lyneham and the local area would Royal Air Force in their county. Moreover, it would be welcome the Army, which must be one of our biggest wrong of me not to pay tribute to the residents of considerations. Given Wiltshire’s strong military connections Swindon, who play such an important part not only in and Lyneham’s proximity to Salisbury plain, I see it as a supporting the work of RAF Lyneham, but in playing natural choice for rehousing troops returning from Germany host to many personnel—both current and former—who or further afield. Local people not only accept Lyneham work at the base but who live in my constituency or that as a military site—service personnel are already well of North Swindon. Some of the former personnel serve integrated into Lyneham and the surrounding areas—but, on Swindon council and are great friends of mine. They given that 21,000 military personnel and their dependants have years of experience in the RAF and feel strongly 91WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 92WH
[Mr Buckland] about accommodation. It would be wrong to say that RAF Lyneham, although it is in a semi-rural setting, is that, if Lyneham cannot be retained for use by the not near large centres of population. As my hon. Friend Royal Air Force, it should be retained in some military the Member for Poole (Mr Syms) has said, many service capacity. personnel who work in Lyneham live in Swindon, which I pay tribute to the community of Wootton Bassett as you will know, Mr Betts, is a large town with a large for playing host to the repatriation ceremonies. Anybody population. We have for many years happily paid host who has been to a ceremony will know exactly what my to service personnel and their families. Having met hon. Friend is talking about. It is a unique atmosphere many of them over the years, I know that they are in which the residents of the town, without too much happy and content to live in a community that welcomes fuss, take a few minutes from their busy lives to give them and that readily acknowledges the contribution of time and space to pay homage to those returning from the armed services in the local area. Afghanistan, whose families are given time to mourn I do not, therefore, think that accommodation is at their loss. Indeed, my hon. Friend and I had the pleasure all the problem. In fact, I cannot identify a problem that and the honour of attending the Royal British Legion’s would be an obstacle to the Army locating to Lyneham. field of remembrance in November, which was hosted As many other colleagues have said, Lyneham’s proximity by His Royal Highness Prince Harry. The event took to the M4 and its generally central location in southern place at Lydiard park in my constituency, but it was England make it an ideal location for large numbers of designed to acknowledge the contribution of Wootton Army personnel. Frankly, I cannot think of a better Bassett and of the communities of North Wiltshire and place to relocate returning personnel from Germany. I Swindon to the repatriation ceremonies. At the end of do not think that there are any obstacles to bringing our those ceremonies, many motor vehicles containing my personnel back to Lyneham. constituents returned to Swindon having played their I also point out that leisure facilities in Swindon are part in supporting the town of Wootton Bassett. enjoyed by service personnel. We have all sorts of I am grateful that my hon. Friend has referred to facilities—cinemas, sports venues, an ice rink, swimming RAF Wroughton. It was an air base in my constituency, pools, leisure centres—and plenty for the families of but it is now home to a large collection of Science service personnel to enjoy. Indeed, the facilities are museum artefacts that cannot be stored in London. The currently being enjoyed by service personnel, who, as I fact that they are now stored in the hangars of RAF have said, are a very important part of our community. Wroughton is an innovative use of the site. My hon. I have mentioned the need for urgency and for decisions Friend is right to say, however, that far too much time to be made quickly. My hon. Friend the Member for was lost after the closure of the base to determine what Salisbury (John Glen) has said that a timely decision is would happen. Time brings deterioration and uncertainty, needed, and I cannot put it better myself. If the Army and it causes many problems in relation to sites as large cannot be located to Lyneham, will the Government as Wroughton—Lyneham is, of course, a very large site help the local council, local businesses and the local indeed. chambers of commerce to come together to draw up an It is right to pay tribute in passing to the former economic plan for the use of the site? Princess Alexandra hospital, which served not only the Schools have been mentioned, and my hon. Friend RAF, but all military personnel so well until its sad, the Member for North Wiltshire has referred to Wootton unfortunate and, I would say, wrong closure in 1996. Bassett comprehensive school. Again, plenty of primary Perhaps those who took that decision did not foresee and secondary schools in Swindon are already being the huge demands now placed upon the medical service used by service personnel, who I am sure would warmly by those who return from the theatre of war who are welcome the children of Army personnel who relocate scarred not only physically, but psychologically by their to Lyneham. In my view, it would be a seamless transfer experiences. As the MP and the candidate for South if the Army came to Lyneham. It would not be the Swindon, it has been wonderful over the past few years imposition of a wholly new culture on a community to meet so many people who have shared their experiences that was unfamiliar with it and that did not understand of the theatre of war with me. They have educated me in or appreciate the contribution of the armed services. some of the difficult issues faced by former and current I urge the Minister and the Government to take up service personnel. the suggestions made today and in other places to Mr Gray: My hon. Friend is speaking extremely well acknowledge the contribution of the local community on the subject. He is quite right about RAF Wroughton. to the life of our armed services, and to conclude that As someone who was a special adviser to the Conservative Lyneham is a no-brainer when it comes to relocating Government who closed RAF Wroughton, we should Army personnel from Germany. put our hands up and say, “That was wrong—we shouldn’t have done it.” It was a first-class place and a very useful 10.28 am facility, and I wish that we had it today. I fear that the decision in relation to RAF Lyneham may be rather Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): It similar and that, if we let it go and do not put the Army is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this there, we will look back in 10 years and say, “What a morning, Mr Betts. I congratulate the hon. Member for damned silly decision that was.” North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) on securing the debate. I pay tribute to his hon. Friends for attending the debate Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to my hon. and showing support for the case that he has made. I Friend and I share his views entirely. Some important appreciate from their contributions that they have given points have been made, particularly by the hon. Member support over significant time and that they recognise for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty), the difficulties that lie ahead. 93WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 94WH
I fully recognise the hon. Gentleman’s anxiety about making the case. From what I have read in the Western the future of the base, its potential use and the undoubted Daily Press, the case needs to be made to the Secretary socio-economic consequences of the closure of RAF of State for Defence and to the Minister. I suspect that Lyneham in just under two years’ time. As has been said the hon. Gentleman might be somewhat anxious that a couple of times this morning, he was present in the back on 31 August it was being said that the Secretary main Chamber yesterday evening, when the right hon. of State, and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies “has played down the chances of the West’s biggest RAF base Campbell) initiated an Adjournment debate— albeit a being occupied by thousands of soldiers”. significantly less time consuming one—on his local If the manner in which the press have reported that is RAF base at Leuchars. He made a strong defence of the correct, the hon. Gentleman still has a battle to fight. need to retain Leuchars on the grounds of its militarily strategic location, and he sought to raise the important matter of the socio-economic impact of such a closure. Mr Gray: I am most grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s I recognise that a number of local chambers of commerce advice. The journalist who wrote that story, my good from the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, including Wootton friend Tristan Cork, acknowledges that it is based on Bassett, have joined together to make the case for absolutely no facts whatsoever. The story was, of course, replacement employment at Lyneham. I want to put on written before the strategic defence review was announced the record my ongoing support for the people of Wootton and before we knew that the soldiers were coming back Bassett. They have shown strength and fortitude over from Germany. Dear old Tristan, who is a very good many months and, at the repatriation ceremonies that journalist and a close friend of mine, will acknowledge have regrettably taken place far too often, they have that he is not absolutely certain what that story was provided support for the families of those servicemen based on. who have paid the ultimate sacrifice in the service of our country. Mr Brown: I am astonished that journalists are not Unlike the uncertainty that surrounds RAF Leuchars, correct all the time, but I accept the hon. Gentleman’s Lossiemouth or Marham, after a base review that took point. two years to conclude, it was determined in July 2003 As I said at the beginning of my contribution, it is that Lyneham would cease to operate in its current clear that the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends form. However, I recognise that that does not make it have been arguing the case for RAF Lyneham since the any easier for the people who are either on the base or announcement was first made in 2003. It is clear from living within the surrounding communities. Hon. Members the debate that he is not giving up one iota in bringing have made the case that they want to see early decisions—the forward proposals for the future of the base. He has hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames) has given the Minister what appears to be a significant said that swift decision making is important—but it is document that outlines exactly what he would like to important that the right decisions are made. We need to see. From what we have all heard in debates over the take appropriate time to think through the consequences past weeks and months, however, I am sure that he of any decision. I wholeheartedly agree that when that recognises that something of a pitched battle is going site is vacated, swift action should be taken to put on, because more than 15,000 troops are coming back something else in place. If nothing happens when not from Germany. People are staking their claims to have only military bases but major employers in all parts of those troops return to a variety of different locations the country vacate large sites, those sites can rapidly across the UK to fill the gap that will be left when bases turn into wastelands. Considering the beauty of the close. It will be appropriate for the Ministry of Defence hon. Gentleman’s constituency and the surrounding and the Secretary of State to look at all those cases area, we do not need a wasteland to develop at that carefully before the final decision is made. location. I am aware that, during the intervening period since The hon. Gentleman made the point that the site is the announcement of the base closure, certain tentative ideally located for training and that there is a standard proposals have been flagged up. I only want to mention of available accommodation. From what he said at the one, namely the proposal for the base to become a beginning of his contribution, I know that he appears possible location for a consolidated support helicopter to have the Prime Minister’s support. Irrespective of base under Project Belvedere. Regrettably for the hon. which party we are in, many of us would consider that Gentleman, those on the base and the wider community, having the Prime Minister’s support would mean we it was concluded that the proposal did not represent were making the right noises. best value for money. Specifically, it was decided that Mr Gray: Although I might seem to be arguing the efficiencies that could have been achieved from such against my own case, I should perhaps make it clear that a major rationalisation programme would not produce the Prime Minister has not said that he necessarily the necessary return, given the investment that would supports the Army going to RAF Lyneham. He knows have been required. If we are to consider whether some that RAF Lyneham is one of a number of sites that the of the bases that will become vacant should become MOD is considering, and he has encouraged me to Army accommodation, perhaps some locations are more make the argument very strongly, but it would be quite appropriate than others. The Minister may confirm this wrong to claim that the Prime Minister has spoken in a little later, but significant investment might be needed support of my argument, as he simply has not. in some of these locations. Value for money should be the underlying principle when the Government consider Mr Brown: The hon. Gentleman was just a little bit what to do. sharp on his feet, because I was about to make the point I shall briefly return to the issue of decision making, that he has the support of the Prime Minister in at least because the Minister said yesterday evening: 95WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 96WH
[Mr Russell Brown] 10.42 am
“we do not expect that work to be concluded for some time The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): It yet, but we hope it will be by the summer.”—[Official Report, is a pleasure to have you presiding over our deliberations, 25 January 2011; Vol. 522, c. 270.] Mr Betts. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) for initiating this important I hope that the Minister will take the opportunity this debate on RAF Lyneham and the effects on the surrounding morning to say whether the decision on the future of community. Its importance is reflected in the fact that RAF Lyneham will be taken at the same time as the so many of my hon. Friends from the Wiltshire area decision on all the other bases currently under review. It have turned up to support him. I also thank him for the would be inappropriate if the Department and Ministers dossier that he has given me from local community were looking at one set of bases and not reaching a leaders. I assure him that we will give full consideration decision on the subject of this discussion, so I hope that to what it contains as we move forward with our decision they are all in the melting pot together. I also want the making. Minister to give an indication of what options the Hon. Members will know that my hon. Friend the Department and the Government are considering, if he Member for North Wiltshire has been an assiduous and can give any indication at all. persistent advocate for RAF Lyneham. In fact, during The big issue, to my mind, is the socio-economic the previous Parliament, he must have raised it with impact of what is happening or is likely to happen. The almost as great a regularity as the fondly remembered hon. Member for Chippenham has mentioned £90 million Tam Dalyell raised the sinking of the Belgrano. Nothing per annum flowing into the local economy, which is a would provoke me to imagine that he will be dropping significant sum. Such a gap cannot be plugged easily. I the subject any time soon. He has campaigned industriously am not convinced, although I am no economist, that against the closure of Lyneham on behalf of his merely by moving in a couple of thousand Army personnel constituents, and I recognise that a wide section of his and their families, we would plug the gap if that £90 million constituency has a very great concern about the future were lost. of the base. I join my hon. Friend and several other hon. Members in paying tribute to the people of Wootton Bassett, who Mr Gray: May I correct the hon. Gentleman slightly? have provided such a dignified and moving homecoming I do not mean to intervene on him too often and am for the deceased. That has been appreciated by the most grateful to him for being so generous with his whole nation. We shall shortly be moving the repatriations time. He is wrong, because if 2,000 or 3,000 soldiers and to Brize Norton, but this is a moment to pay tribute to their families were to move into the area, it would the people of Wootton Bassett for what they have done. exactly replicate the RAF personnel who are leaving and would indeed plug the economic gap that he has I also pay tribute to all the personnel who have served described. If we got a reasonable number of soldiers in at RAF Lyneham since it opened for active service in there, it would be precisely what we want for the local 1940. It is rather an important point that, as has been economy. said, it was announced in July 2003—getting on for eight years ago—that the future air transport and air-to-air refuelling fleets would be co-located at RAF Brize Mr Brown: I bow to the hon. Gentleman’s probably Norton by 2012. It must be acknowledged that the better knowledge of what is happening in the locality. savings from that co-location will be significant. It is The main point that I am trying to make, to support the not possible to reopen that debate—the co-location is hon. Member for Chippenham, is that £90 million is a going ahead—but that decision meant that Lyneham significant sum. That will need to be carefully considered. would no longer be required for its current purpose, with current units leaving the base by 2012. In respect of finance, is the Minister prepared to say whether a specific and dedicated budget to assist with The Department has examined several alternative any transition arrangements for RAF Lyneham will be uses for the site. As the hon. Member for Dumfries and available? He will be determined to ensure that he keeps Galloway (Mr Brown), who speaks for the Opposition, a tight check on the budget in the Department, but has mentioned, it was considered as a consolidated what additional support might be available to the local support helicopter base under Project Belvedere, but for community if the MOD is not prepared to fulfil some of the reasons that he has outlined, that unfortunately did the wishes expressed this morning? not work out. I fully recognise that it has been a traumatic time since the initial announcement in July 2003, and it is Mr Gray: The Minister is, of course, right, and I still a worrying time. Whatever the decision that Ministers would not seek to reopen that debate. We are none the and the Secretary of State make and whatever the less a little puzzled as to how it can be that we will save outcome, if it is not good news, it will still be a devastating an enormous amount of money by co-locating the air shock. I hope that, in the time that I am leaving available transport fleet at RAF Brize Norton, but we would not to the Minister this morning, he will be able to give a save a similar amount by co-locating the helicopter fleet flavour of what is being considered by the Department, at Lyneham. There seems to be no logic in those two even though he cannot give details of any ultimate arguments: one co-location does not pay; the other decision. We are all, perhaps a little tentatively, looking does. However, that involved the previous Government, forward to the summer, when we will see the wider whom the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway picture that he and his ministerial colleagues will be able (Mr Brown) supported, so perhaps we need not reopen to paint for the future of many of our bases. that argument. 97WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 98WH
Nick Harvey: The key point is that when we are thrown only in the past couple of months, and I am still considering value for money, we have to balance the mystified why planning for a civilian future did not start scale of the investment to build the facility against the long ago. savings that we will make from having everything at one location. I was not party to that decision, but clearly Mr Gray: The Minister must not be mystified. The when those numbers were ground through the computers explanation is that the Lyneham taskforce convened at the time, the judgment was arrived at that the Project within weeks of the original announcement in 2003, Belvedere option did not represent value for money. and the civilian-military co-operation involving Wiltshire Since then, it has seemed unlikely that another defence council has been constant since then. The local community use will be found for RAF Lyneham. I listened to my has been fully engaged for the past seven years in hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) looking for alternative uses, so the Minister is quite talking about the need for an economic plan, and I wrong to think that we have not been. As he has said, could not agree with him more. I am just mildly mystified however, the Army is a useful bone to be thrown at this as to why, 14 months before the base closes, the local stage. civil population is talking about the need for a plan Nick Harvey: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for when the announcement that the base would cease its clarifying that. Clearly, I had drawn the wrong implication current role came eight years ago. The point that I am from some of the other contributions, which suggested making is simply this: if there is to be a civilian use for that we needed to form an economic plan now. My hon. RAF Lyneham in the future, rather than a military Friend, in whose constituency Lyneham is based, has one—I am not saying for one moment that that will be said that such plans exist, and it is useful to have that the case—it will be for the local civil community to recorded and clarified, so I am grateful to him. decide what that future will be. Since the announcement in October, work has been The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway asked under way to look at the basing requirements of not about transitional assistance. There is no precedent for only the Army, but the RAF and the Navy. As I said in that coming from defence funds in the cases of other previous debates, including the one about Marham and base closures. It would certainly be something that the one about Leuchars last night, that is a big piece of other Departments and local authorities, particularly work; we must get it right, and we will take our time to under the new localism agenda, would need to pick up. do that. I hope that we will be in a position to put all My hon. Friends are absolutely right, and the tone that these local communities out of their agony as soon as has been struck— possible, and I readily acknowledge that uncertainty is being caused in every community. John Glen: Will the Minister give way? We have received many representations from hon. Members, local authorities, local groups and the devolved Administrations, and we will do what we can to take Nick Harvey: In a moment. The tone that has been them all on board. Of course, there will be socio-economic struck by my hon. Friends thinking constructively and impacts, but that will be true at any of those bases. We positively about what the alternative uses might be is recognise those impacts, but they must be balanced exactly the right way forward from where we are now. against each other. Our overriding consideration, as the I have been asked about the timetable for a decision. I Ministry of Defence, is the military arguments. Bringing can only repeat that it is more important to get things the Army back from Germany is something that we will right than to do them at breakneck speed. A detailed do only once, and it is important that we get it right and study is taking place of the entire defence estate and the put the Army in the right place for the next several ramifications of bringing nearly 20,000 personnel back decades. I must stress that we cannot really have a from Germany. I reassure the Opposition spokesman beauty contest between different parts of the country to that that is a comprehensive piece of work and that it secure the prize of a base in their locality. will not be piecemeal. That work is going on at the Whatever the outcome of the review, it must be about moment, and it will take a few more months. In any what is best for the armed forces. Bringing back the event, we anticipate that decisions and announcements Army units stationed in Germany is not an easy job. will be made before the summer recess, which is the Once it has been decided which units we are bringing approximate time frame for the decision. To that extent, back to which locations, detailed work will have to take my point about those in the local community knowing place to plan those moves. As the Opposition spokesman where they are will be resolved in the next few months, has said, investments will have to be put in place to but it is wise for them to make contingency plans. prepare the bases that will receive those Army units. The work going on to bring the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps back to Innsworth, near Gloucester, has taken John Glen: The point that needs to be made is that years. I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend the local communities are being prevented from establishing Member for North Wiltshire, who painted a rosy picture a viable economic plan. They have done considerable of the Army marching in as the RAF marched out, but work with Wiltshire council to establish an embryonic the likelihood of that happening is infinitesimally small. plan, but an MOD decision is required before that The programme to bring the Army back from Germany option can be fully explored. One cannot do the local will happen over 10 years, and in almost no imaginable plan before the MOD decision is known. case will we see the Army march in as those vacating bases in the next year or two march out. Nick Harvey: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his I implore Members to reflect on what was said in the intervention, but, with respect, this bone of comfort—that strategic defence and security review about the Army’s the Army might come back from Germany—has been intention to organise itself into multi-role brigades. 99WH The Army and RAF Lyneham26 JANUARY 2011 The Army and RAF Lyneham 100WH
[Nick Harvey] the proximity to other Army units in Wiltshire and to Salisbury plain, and those are good arguments, as well Although we would not necessarily seek to accommodate as reasons why Lyneham is in quite a strong position as an entire multi-role brigade on a single site, we will we look at the different bases. nevertheless want units to be located near enough to each other to use common training grounds and make The Opposition spokesman asked for guidance on formations as a brigade for training purposes. There is, how the Government’s thinking is going. My point therefore, a wide range of considerations. Is the new about multi-role brigades and the need for units that base big enough to accommodate the units? Does it will make formations together to be within easy reach have the right accommodation? How much would it of each other is one of the factors, and the military’s cost to upgrade? How much new building will there footprint across the different parts of the UK will be the have to be? What is access to training facilities like? Are other. One point that I would make about Salisbury the training facilities of the right type? How long will plain, however, is that we must be realistic about its travelling distances to those facilities be? Where will the capacity to absorb a huge increase in the amount of other units involved in training be? All those questions Army training that goes on there. need addressing, and it will take time to balance them all and ensure that we get things right. The House has had debates about various other RAF The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway asked bases. Obviously, every community is inclined to look at about schools, and we will, of course, give every the worst-case scenario, but I reassure hon. Members consideration to the education requirements of future that no decisions have been made yet, and we will military communities. He also asked about accommodation, continue to look at the whole issue with an open mind. and I acknowledge that there is a lot more work to be Today has been a useful opportunity for the Wiltshire done on improving service family accommodation. community to make particular local points. It has been However, I urge hon. Members to recognise our desire useful to hear from the neighbours of my hon. Friend in the SDSR to build a new employment model for the Member for North Wiltshire about the impact on members of the Army. We want more super garrisons, the wider Wiltshire economy, which I am well aware of. so that people who progress through the Army will be One way or the other, I travel through Wiltshire twice a able to spend more of their career in one place, which week. My wife’s family are from North Wiltshire and would be more like the Navy and the RAF, and therefore are still there, so I am familiar with the locality, and I to put down roots and find houses among the local can see the advantages of RAF Lyneham and the population. As we go forward into future years, more of impact that it has on the community. the Government’s effort will focus on ensuring that members of the armed forces can buy their own homes We must look beyond the local considerations, base and settle in communities. Although I do not rule out by base, to the wider defence picture. We need to make building further family accommodation, we view that the best use of our existing assets in the UK. I do not as the second-best option. The desire will be to help want to mislead Wiltshire Members into thinking that people settle into communities. there is necessarily a future defence use for Lyneham at The hon. Gentleman also asked about the scrutiny the moment—it is too soon to say that, because there is process and how we will let communities know about still a lot of work to do. In the mean time, we continue decisions. It would be desirable to let some community to make plans for the disposal of Lyneham. We shall, leaders know before official announcements are made, however, as I have said, try to put all the local communities but the only way to inform whole communities is through out of their agony as soon as we can. We shall work the media, so the hon. Gentleman’s argument becomes with other Departments, devolved Administrations—where slightly circular. appropriate—and local authorities to ensure that our plans can be implemented with the least possible disruption On the economic impact being £90 million, I agree for the communities affected. with the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire, who said that replacing like with As they were in the SDSR, our decisions must be like has a neutral effect on the economy. I saw that in my objective, unsentimental and based on the military advice own constituency, where the Marines replaced the RAF that we receive about what is best for the armed forces. at Chivenor. The economy recovered fairly quickly, as We shall also have to look at what provides the best did local services, schools and so on. value for the taxpayer, and we shall, of course, consider My hon. Friend has made a strong case on why the impact on communities and regional economies as Lyneham would be a good base for the Army. Many of we balance those factors. We must limit our resources to his arguments have a great deal of merit. He mentioned where they are most needed. 101WH 26 JANUARY 2011 Chechnya 102WH
Chechnya fear and repression and the brutal crushing of dissent is fuelling tension. State-sponsored murder creates martyrs. 11 am A combination of desperation and revenge is driving some, often young, Chechens to what they see as Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I am pleased the only alternative—the extremist cause. Kadyrov’s to have the opportunity to bring the current political Administration have justified some of their brutal acts situation in Chechnya to the attention of the House, on the grounds that they are fighting terrorists, who following my visit there last year with Lord Judd, to also use brutal means. However, the boundaries have examine the human rights situation. Sadly, since I secured become blurred between terrorists and dissidents. I do the debate, the instability of the Caucasus has once not think I am being cynical if I say it suits the regime again risen high on the news agenda, following Monday’s for it to be so easy to silence any critics by denouncing deadly suicide bomb attack at the airport in Moscow. them as terrorists. Police sources say that the bomb bears the hallmarks of The main focus of our trip was to investigate the past attacks carried out by Chechens and other Islamic human rights situation, in response to reports of appalling separatists from the Caucasus. violations. On several occasions, we met the relatives of In 2009 Moscow declared that the situation in Chechnya those who had been beaten, abducted and locked up in had normalised, marking the end of its military operations a far-flung prison on some trumped-up charge or who in the republic. However, Chechnya and the north Caucasus had disappeared. House burnings were another cruel region face a constant battle against terrorist insurgency, tactic that was used. One woman placed three photographs which, far too often, the world seems to ignore. From in my palm. They were of her brother, her son and her 2002 the parliamentary all-party group on human rights daughter, all of whom had been killed or were missing. was keen to send a fact-finding mission to Chechnya. The fear was palpable. Speaking out about these abuses, The eight-year delay is testament to the challenge of even in a so-called private meeting, carries a real risk of getting the permission of the Foreign Office and the reprisals that could see other family members being Russian and Chechen authorities, all at the same time. I abducted, tortured or worse. I understand why so many and Lord Judd want to thank Nicole Piché from the people keep quiet in fear. I am in awe of the courage of group, who organised the visit and accompanied us. those who speak out, through their grief, to try to Without her tenacity over eight years it would never secure justice, however slight the chance. In this context, have happened. We also thank the Foreign and the work of non-governmental organisations in protecting Commonwealth Office officials here and in Moscow for and promoting human rights is absolutely vital, although their assistance and advice—particularly Iain Frew and they operate in a very dangerous environment. Elena Arganat, who came with us to Chechnya. Their In July 2009, leading human rights activist Natalya knowledge, insight and translation of both language Estemirova was abducted in Grozny, and found later and culture were invaluable. near the border with Ingushetia with gunshot wounds I should like to draw attention to several issues of to her head. The Estemirova murder sent shock waves concern about the political situation in Chechnya: the through the NGO community in Chechnya, and her security situation, and in particular the danger of young employer, Memorial, had to suspend its Chechen operations people being driven to extremism out of desperation; for several months on safety grounds. There is a wilful the regular human rights abuses, such as the house misunderstanding by the Chechen authorities of what burnings and disappearances, of which we sadly heard the “N” in NGO stands for. The very concept of an tales during our visit; and the sinister and oppressive organisation that is independent of Government—or Chechen regime, with no accountability or judicial process, non-governmental—openly challenging policies and practice and a culture of impunity. I fear that all those problems seems anathema to them. Their preference is for NGOs will only continue, and indeed will get worse, before the to be subsumed into Government, thus removing any international community understands that Chechnya is semblance of transparency. a destabilising sore, which is infecting the whole region. I hope that the Government will recognise the danger of President Kadyrov has suggested that Memorial should Chechnya’s situation and the importance of engagement change its working methods. Instead of making cases with Russia, the EU and the wider international community public, he thinks it should tell him personally about the to address it. problems so that he can just solve them quietly. Forgive me for thinking that that is not a solution to the I want first to discuss the security situation. Last problems. autumn’s siege of the Chechen Parliament, when Islamic militants killed two police guards and four rebels died, Human rights ombudsman Nurdi Nukhazhiyev, who hit the headlines all over the world. The suicide bombing is charged with championing human rights in Chechnya, of the Moscow metro in March 2010 brought Chechnya’s has asserted that he is “independent of other authorities”, “black widows” to international attention; the suspected but in our meeting with him, he flatly refused to discuss perpetrators of the attacks were Chechen women who any allegations that implicated the President, so, despite had lost husbands to the Russian military. However, his protestations, he was clearly far from independent. such news attention on terrorist attacks for a few short During our meeting I literally could not believe my days only plays into the hands of the militants, who ears—I even challenged the translator in case there had relish the publicity. Instead a sustained and focused been a misunderstanding—when Nukhazhiyev told us effort is needed to deal with the underlying problems of that Oleg Orlov of Memorial had “benefited” from corruption and oppression. Natalya Estemirova’s murder. With the champion of Many in Moscow, and possibly beyond, may cling to human rights in Chechnya behaving in such a way, it is the false notion that the security problems can be contained not surprising that people despair. by President Ramzan Kadyrov’s authoritarian regime. Memorial’s status as a truly independent NGO means Keeping the population in check through a climate of that it has attracted the ire of the Chechen regime. In 103WH Chechnya26 JANUARY 2011 Chechnya 104WH
[Jo Swinson] Jo Swinson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that valid point, but in a short debate it is impossible to July, President Kadyrov went so far as to say it was an cover every aspect of what we saw on our visit. It was a enemy of the people, the law and the state. That accusation short visit, but we did see some evidence of a lack of is more appropriately levelled at President Kadyrov religious freedom, particularly with the forced Islamisation. himself. The international community must assist NGOs There were simple things, such as Chechen women and human rights defenders who are taking great risks being forced to wear headscarves in Government buildings. to document and improve the situation in Chechnya. The Minister of Information told us that they chose We must defend their right to do their vital work. When to wear them, but it was very clear when we spoke to the lives of prominent human rights defenders or journalists women elsewhere that it was a rule. I am sure that many are threatened, we should be open to applications for religious minorities in Chechnya experience persecution, asylum. We do not wish to see more cases like that of and I hope that our Ministers are pressing hard on that Natalya Estemirova or Anna Politkovskaya. issue with the Russian authorities. Religious freedom, I am pleased to say that in October, MEPs voted to free access to justice and a free media are absolutely endorse a resolution defending Memorial, and condemning essential, and are part of the underpinning of a democratic the society, but sadly they are far too lacking in this troubled state. “cynical and absurd attempts to implicate it in the crime of aiding terrorist organisations.” The judicial system faces similar problems. Cases are I hope that the Minister and his colleagues will continue opened for show purposes, but proper investigations are to press our EU friends to recognise the significant not completed. In 2009, 39 cases involving the abduction human rights problems in Chechnya and use European of 43 individuals were opened, but no one knows how institutions to bring pressure to bear on Moscow to act. many resulted in convictions; when we met with the prosecutors they did not have that information—it was The human rights violations in Chechnya are not collected. That sounds like one of the absolutely compounded by the lack of transparency and accountability worst parliamentary answers that we get in this place, of the regime, and the absence of any meaningful and which we do not stand for. It is not recorded how justice process and rule of law. The personality cult many of the cases involved the Chechen security services, around Kadyrov is unbelievable. Every public building or how many disappearances go unreported for fear of in Grozny displays large photographs of the President, further persecution. Of course, most human rights violations and the TV news would be funny if it was not actually do not get reported because of the safety concerns that real. Back at our hotel, we watched the evening bulletin put many people off the juridical route. Even providing and it was almost entirely composed of positive news a witness testimony could lead many to fear the stories about what the President had been up to that consequences, and the witness protection scheme has a day, with no debate, opposition or criticism. fatal flaw in that the security forces that are supposed to On the day the President was far too busy to meet safeguard the witnesses are often the very people accused with Lord Judd and me as scheduled, the TV news told of the abuses. us that he had been opening a furniture shop—urgent Chechnya and the Caucases have for far too long business indeed. We might complain about this country’s been too low down the international community’s priority press and media, and as politicians we perhaps do so ladder. The UK has not only a responsibility for, but a more often than others, but a free press is essential to a long-term interest in preventing the contagion of militant free democracy. Journalists in Chechnya continually insurgency from spreading. It cannot be overstated that walk the difficult line between trying to report the news when human rights are protected and are a key priority in line with their journalistic principles and not angering for the Government, opportunities for extremist recruiters the regime so as not to risk their lives. are greatly diminished and terrorist threats recede. The Kadyrov and his Government face no parliamentary choice is not between human rights and fighting terrorism; scrutiny: 37 of Chechnya’s 41 MPs belong to the same safeguarding human rights is essential in the fight against party, and the Parliament meets infrequently.The President terrorism. The risk in Chechnya and its neighbouring is keen to promote a climate of fear, and in a recent states is very much that the oppressive regimes will broadcast said: provide a fertile breeding ground for the terrorists of “I am looking for evildoers everywhere. If two people meet, the tomorrow, and we must therefore assist both the Russian third among them will always be one of my men. I know everything. and the Chechen authorities, if they will let us, to I hear everything.” improve the environment within the republic. I hope That is truly chilling, like something out of a George that the Minister will tell us how the Government plan Orwell novel. to assist and strengthen the work of human rights organisations and civil society in Chechnya. We clearly need to ensure that, through the European Court of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In relation to the Human Rights, individual Chechens have the ability to very clear impact on human, political and democratic bring cases against the Russian authorities, and that rights, there is the issue of religious freedom. A great they receive the due process of justice. many people have been persecuted because of their religious beliefs. Did the hon. Lady have an opportunity We must also press Russia to take its obligations as a to speak to any such people, who perhaps out of fear member of the Council of Europe more seriously, did not make themselves known to her? I am aware of a particularly in relation to the judgments handed down great many Churches and groups of people who are against it by the European Court of Human Rights—it experiencing religious persecution and discrimination. should not be allowed to get away with ignoring those. What should we do about that, and what could the In general, we should encourage Russia and the Chechen Government do in representing those people? authorities to allow increased access to Chechnya for 105WH Chechnya26 JANUARY 2011 Chechnya 106WH foreign delegations, international organisations and debate over the situation in Chechnya. I can assure my independent media and NGO representatives. Most of hon. Friend that the Government share the concerns all, Russia needs to recognise that the brutal oppression highlighted in the report, particularly the strong evidence of the Chechen people is not a solution to the security of ongoing abductions, torture, punitive house burnings, threat that it undoubtedly faces. and attacks on human rights defenders, in which the Our Government should do all they can to assist local Chechen security forces are often implicated. Russia in dealing with this difficult internal problem, The lack of effective investigations into human rights even if it is just encouragement to pursue a course of abuses perpetuates a climate of impunity. In particular, action that puts the people first and rejects the fallacy of the Government are deeply concerned that, after a year security under the draconian Kadyrov regime. We must and a half, the investigation into the murder of Natalya help to convince Russia that the need for genuine Estemirova in the north Caucasus in July 2009 has not engagement with the international community and its produced any results. We also share the report’s other Chechen citizens is in its own long-term interests. I hope key observation that counter-terrorism strategies that that the Minister and his FCO colleagues will be working do not observe human rights serve only to perpetuate hard to that end. the poor security situation. Human rights in Chechnya, and in the north Caucasus more widely, remain a serious concern to the UK. 11.15 am Although Chechnya might be more stable today than The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth in the recent past, that stability has come at a price. Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): First, I join the Prime Today Chechnya is a place where too many people are Minister and Foreign Secretary in extending my condolences unable to exercise their human rights; a place where and sympathy to those affected by the appalling attack freedom of expression and speech are curtailed; and a at Moscow airport on Monday, in which a British place where civil society is unable to contribute in the citizen lost his life. The Prime Minister has offered his way in which it should to a functioning democratic condolences and support directly to President Medvedev system. and the Foreign Secretary has written to Foreign Minister One of the reasons that Britain regularly engages Lavrov. The British people stand with the Russian people with Russia on human rights issues is to address those at this tragic time. People around the world will have concerns. During his visit to Moscow last October, the been shocked by the pictures that they saw on their Foreign Secretary met representatives of civil society televisions on Monday. and made the case for human rights, rule of law and Let me also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member impunity issues with the Russian Government. The for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) on securing the Foreign Secretary will do so again when he meets Russian debate, which is particularly timely given the circumstances, Foreign Minister Lavrov on his visit to the UK next but would be important at any time. We do not yet month. know for certain who was responsible for the attack in Discussing our concerns in an open way and seeking Moscow and it would be wrong to leap to the assumption to find constructive ways to co-operate with the Russian that the perpetrators came from the north Caucasus authorities in addressing the problems that they face is region. However, preliminary indications from the Russian an integral part of our bilateral relationship. Just last authorities show that there might indeed be such a week, the UK held its human rights consultations with connection. As we know, Russia has experience of terrorism Russia in Moscow. During those negotiations, senior related to the north Caucasus region. UK officials underlined specific concerns, including The House is well aware of my hon. Friend’s long-held those about Chechnya and the north Caucasus. There interest in Chechnya. We all benefit from her comprehensive were constructive discussions on socio-economic knowledge and active approach in addressing the very development in the north Caucasus; on pursuing counter- serious issues faced by the people living in the region, terrorism strategies while protecting civil liberties; on which she expanded upon forcefully this morning. It is nationalism and ethnic violence, and strategies for right that we support the efforts of the Russian Government combating such violence; on implementation of judgments to tackle terrorism. We welcome President Medvedev’s by the European Court of Human Rights in cases that initiatives to address the underlying socio-economic refer to abuses in the north Caucasus; and on women’s conditions in the north Caucasus. Those conditions can rights in Chechnya, which my hon. Friend mentioned provide fertile ground for extremist ideology. As the in her speech. We will look for ways to continue that report of my hon. Friend’s visit to Chechnya noted, the dialogue and to offer further opportunities for the reconstruction of Grozny is a notable achievement, but Russian authorities to share experience, if they would reconstruction alone does not create stability. A long-term find it useful to do so. solution to the region’s problems can be built only on More widely, the UK has also raised concerns about a foundation of respect for human rights and the rule the conduct of the Khodorkovsky trial; the death in of law. pre-trial detention of Sergei Magnitsky; the stalled The fact-finding visit that my hon. Friend went on investigations into the murders of two defenders of with Lord Judd on behalf of the all-party group on human rights, Anna Politkovskaya and Natalya Estemirova; human rights in February last year helped bring home the death penalty; freedom of assembly, which my hon. to the House the situation in that troubled part of the Friend mentioned in discussing the wider context of the world. The FCO was pleased to provide financial and oppression of people, as she described it, in Chechnya; administrative support for the visit. I appreciated the and the protection of gay rights and the rights of other time that she and Lord Judd took to meet me in minorities in society. So there is a wide range of concerns September to discuss their findings from that visit. that we raise directly in that forum of our human rights Their report was an important contribution to the consultations with Russia. 107WH Chechnya26 JANUARY 2011 Chechnya 108WH
Jim Shannon: The Minister outlined a number of in the north Caucasus; at encouraging free and fair concerns that the Government have. In relation to the elections; at supporting an independent media, which religious persecution and discrimination that is taking was a point that my hon. Friend made forcefully, based place, has he made any representations to the Russian on her direct experience during her visit; and at improving Government about that? policing and prison conditions. The United Kingdom worked with the Russian NGO Mr Browne: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Committee against Torture to facilitate independent that intervention. I was not present at those discussions investigations into allegations of torture. The evidence in Moscow myself and I have not been supplied with that resulted from those investigations led to prosecutions information about that issue. However, I can assure him in Chechnya and entrenched local courts’ knowledge that we take very seriously concerns about religious and use of human rights law. persecution in all parts of the world and those concerns The UK has funded other Russian and international are expressed in ways that I am sure he would support; NGOs to assist applicants taking cases of human rights they are expressed forcefully and directly to Governments abuses through national courts and the European Court and other bodies in countries where we feel that religious of Human Rights. In 2010, the European Court handed freedom of expression is infringed. That religious freedom down judgments in favour of 17 applicants supported of expression includes the right to practise a religion, by organisations that we help to fund, and more than the right to change one’s religious affiliation and the ¤1,720,000 in damages were awarded to them. right to hold no religious beliefs if that is what an individual wishes to do. The UK supports the activities of local civil society organisations in building stability and cross-border Therefore, if the Foreign Office feels that discussion co-operation in the region. For example, Nonviolence of that issue is a necessary part of a dialogue with any International used UK funds to develop a comprehensive country or any organisation within a country, I can model of co-operation between youth and law enforcement assure the hon. Gentleman that we will include that officers, helping to build trust and create the grass-root component in talks. If he knows of specific cases or conditions for long-term stability. The UK continued to specific parts of the world where he feels we could support the work of the independent media agency, increase our focus in that regard, I make the offer to Caucasian Knot, which provides balanced and objective him that he can let me, or another Minister in the online media reporting of news from across the Caucasus Department, know and we will seek to act on his region, and offers local citizens a forum in which to concerns. report directly and express their views. The UK also actively works with the European Union, In conclusion, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe opportunity to discuss the issues on a formal basis. The and the Council of Europe to bring our combined issues continue to concern this Government and we political weight to bear on pressing human rights issues. continue to engage with them, both bilaterally with the The Russian Government have so far declined the Council Russians and with our colleagues in the United Nations, of Europe’s repeated offers of technical assistance with the European Union and other international organisation. the exhumation of mass graves in connection with the I assure all hon. Members that this Government place two Chechen wars. However, should they change their the strongest emphasis on human rights. The Foreign view on that, the UK is ready to consider any request Secretary has addressed the subject specifically, repeatedly we receive for assistance. and strongly during his time in office, and we will In addition, we support a wide range of human rights continue to place a strong emphasis on Britain taking a organisations working in Chechnya and Russia as a lead on projecting around the world, including Chechnya whole. Therefore, the active role of the British Government and Russia as a whole, the values upon which we in this is not merely—although I do not want to understate House place great importance. it—based on the relationship between our Ministers and officials and those of Russia. We are also keen to help more directly at the grass-roots level. We have 11.28 am funded projects aimed at preventing and resolving conflict Sitting suspended. 109WH 26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 110WH
Community Cohesion care, which was provided at the county hospital in Durham City, was funded by miners’ subscriptions. It RS NNE AIN in the Chair [M A M ] was a time of great volunteering, of banding together and of mutual help. It was driven not just by altruism, 2.30 pm but by enlightened self-interest. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): It is a pleasure to hold In the 1890s, some 52% of the adult population—the this debate under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I highest figure of any county—belonged to a co-operative called this debate because I am deeply concerned about and were known as co-operators. Some 130,000 miners the communities in which I live and in which I grew up. in Durham joined together to form the Durham Aged At a time of public sector cuts, declining rates of Mineworkers’ Homes Association, which built homes growth are exacerbating the efforts of the north-east to for miners, so that they could live out their retirement in help rebalance the economy.In County Durham, Sedgefield dignity. They were able to live in a “haven of rest” rather could suffer the same fate this decade that it did in the than go to the workhouse. 1980s. There was hope, because the previous Government The miners also formed a trade union and, as we all drew up a plan to halve the deficit, but that has now know, the trade union movement itself helped to form been replaced by a strategy to eradicate the deficit. As a the Labour party. Keir Hardie, one of our founding consequence, unemployment is rising, economic confidence fathers, believed in “a communal consciousness”, which is damaged and growth is starting to stall. is what we today would call a big society. It is this belief When we left power, unemployment was falling and in community that has always driven my politics. I am home repossessions and business bankruptcies were proud of what the miners did for themselves and I only half what they were in the 1980s and 1990s. The am proud of their heritage, but you could argue that previous Government were acting in the spirit of the big they were practising the big society. society. In the 1980s, unemployment in Sedgefield stood It is obvious that the miners did not live in a big at 5,500, 40% of whom were out of work for 12 months society and that they did what they had to do. They or more. Then the figures were massaged, so people risked their lives every day of the week, and there was were taken from the unemployment register and put on no one there to help. As they left the pit, they had to run incapacity benefit and whole communities were closed charities and raise funds to look after themselves. They down. If you met someone in the street, you never asked put into practice the belief that by the strength of our them if they were well; you asked them whether they common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve had a job. Lessons are being learned. As the Government alone. To me that is what a society that is fair, big and cut deep into public services with a fury, we do not want good should be doing. their mantra, “There is no such thing as society”, thrown For the big society to work, there must be more than back in our face. Some argue that the Government’s just volunteering and charity, because there must be a notion of the big society is a cover for the cuts, but it is, democratically elected Government who act on behalf I believe, worse than that. I accept that the Government of the people and the community. People will be able to believe in a big society—after all they cannot be against live secure in the knowledge that society will work with fresh air. However, their deep cuts into the grants awarded them to provide the environment for health, work and to the third sector will inevitably prevent them from education. building such a society. Those who want to build a big society will not be able to do so, because they are denied Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) the proper tools. (Con): With respect, the hon. Gentleman’s seat is very different from the one that I represent. None the less, I Charities have always had a role in society. People have some big problems in my own area, too. He makes have always volunteered, but the need for charity and the case for the history of Sedgefield and brings it up to for volunteers becomes more acute when society fails the current day. Did he not agree with the Prime Minister its people. You only need to look at the coal mining when he said that there was such a thing as society, but traditions of County Durham in the late-19th and it was not necessarily the same as the state? That is not 20th centuries to prove the point. As A. J. P.Taylor said: to say that the state has no role, but that it should not “Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could have an exclusive role. pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state beyond the post office and policemen.” Phil Wilson: I do not think for one moment that Perhaps some would like to return to such an age, but anyone is saying that there is no place for charity or for let us look at what it meant to the mining communities volunteering, but both must work in hand with the state of that time. if we are to have a fair and just society. We cannot have Colliery owners provided housing from which colliers one without the other. I use the miners as an example, could be evicted at any time. Thousands of miners died because what they were practising is what we would at their jobs—sometimes hundreds of them died in a see today as the big society. Self-interest made them single incident, because of the lack of mine safety. behave in such a way, because there was no one there Education was provided by charities, the Church and to help them and the state would not take part. As sometimes by colliery owners. At the opening of his A. J. P. Taylor said, the state was nowhere. The only school in East Hedleyhope colliery towards the end of time you came across it was when you went to the post the 19th century, Sir Bernhard Samuelson said: office or when you met a policeman in the street. A strong “If elementary schools were being built for the working population, society is what we need, and it is something that the colleges and secondary schools were also being erected for those Labour party has helped to build up over the years. who employed them.” The big society cannot only be about you and what Life expectancy for miners was poor. In the 20th century, you do for yourself, because it is also about what you 27% of miners were disabled before they retired. Health can do for others, which is something with which we can 111WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 112WH
[Phil Wilson] the capacity of civil society to deliver. That brings me to the nub of my argument. How can the Government all agree. The greatest acts of volunteering and charity fulfil their big society agenda when they are cutting will come where there is the greatest need, such as in funding and dismantling the infrastructure within which the coalfields of County Durham in the 19th and a big society can flourish? Because the cuts force people 20th centuries, and I do not want to return to those into volunteering, as they have no other choice, what we times. The Government thought not only that they did have left is not a big society but a coercive society. That not have a role but that they should not have a role is the kind of society that the miners of Durham found either. A lot of volunteering and charitable work goes themselves in because the community at large had abrogated on today, which the Government have acknowledged. its responsibilities, which is what this Government are Volunteering levels have remained stable since 2001 with doing. 40% of people volunteering once a year and 27% of I am not the only one saying that about the funding people volunteering once a month. cuts; the charities are too. From what I understand, a Citizen Survey, which has been quoted by the recent press release from the Association of Chief Executives Government, also states that 83% of people perceive of Voluntary Organisations estimated that the voluntary their community as cohesive and agree that their local sector area is a place in which people from different backgrounds “will lose more than £1 billion in the 2011-12 financial year and got on well together, which is an increase on 2003. more than £3 billion a year by 2014-15 as councils terminate When people are content, there is little likelihood of grants or buy fewer services.” their feeling the need to volunteer. It is a testament to As the Government try to push their big society programme, the efforts of the previous Government that they put so the ACEVO warns that: much into community cohesion. “if the scale of the spending cuts to councils were passed on to charities the voluntary sector would be ‘decimated’. Charities are David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I welcome you, already facing pressure from VAT rises and the loss of Gift Aid Mrs Main, to the Chair. I apologise that I cannot stay relief.” for the full debate, because I have to attend another If the charities themselves are saying that, is it not time meeting, and I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on that the Government listened to what they have to say? securing this debate. Does he agree that in order to have Before we on this side of the Chamber are lectured by proper community cohesion, there needs to an adequate the Government on the economy and their belief that amount of funding in working-class estates to provide they need to cut as deeply as they are cutting because of the projects that are so badly needed? Although we the deficit, I just want to say that I do not think that we understand that there is a difficulty with funding per se can be lectured on those things any more, especially as given the economics of the country, to withdraw it or the Chancellor gave a three-minute interview on the reduce it dramatically knocks confidence. People are BBC yesterday in which he blamed the weather for the left feeling that they might as well have never received it economy’s problems 24 times. If the Government want in the first place, because if it is cut in mid-stream, they to build a big society, they need to re-examine how they are left in limbo. are going to fund charities and the third sector.
Phil Wilson: There is much truth in what the hon. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I have Gentleman has said. He comes from an area which has been listening very carefully to what the hon. Gentleman pockets of deprivation and working-class communities has been saying. Surely, however, he will acknowledge that rely on this funding to ensure that they can go that his own party, when it was in power, had identified ahead with charitable work. that it would make £44 billion—I think that was the The previous Government more than doubled the figure—of savings or cuts. Is he saying to hon. Members amount of money in the third sector, which increased today that none of those cuts would have affected the from some £5.5 billion to more than £12 billion. There voluntary sector in any way? are now about 62,000 social enterprises in the UK, contributing at least £24 billion to the economy. It has Phil Wilson: We would have done two things. First, been estimated that social enterprises employ about we would have made sure that, as far as possible, we did 800,000 people. At the height of the recession, we used not damage front-line services. Secondly, we would not the hardship fund to give £17 million to local charities, have raised expectations, as I believe this Government for example those working in health and social care, are doing by saying that they will create a big society housing support, and education and training. while at the same time undermining that big society by What we and the Government must be careful of— slashing and burning all the grants and facilities that provide for the third sector. We would not have done Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. The hon. that. Gentleman has corrected himself, but he has referred to We also need the Government to consider what they me on several occasions, by saying “you”. I have let it can do other than providing for charities and the third go, but if he were to refrain from using the word “you”, sector, because the big society involves more than doing I would be grateful. just that. For example, one of the issues in my constituency is that some private landlords are neglecting the properties Phil Wilson: I will not do it again. Thank you for that they own. Those properties were owned by the pointing that out, Mrs Main. National Coal Board many years ago. They were then I am worried that the Government are raising sold off, and people bought them to get on to the expectations about what the third sector should deliver, property ladder, before selling them on. Private landlords but they are about to embark on cuts that will damage came in and bought them. Now we have a problem, and 113WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 114WH
I believe that, if we are not careful, whole centres of Phil Wilson: You might have—sorry, the hon. Lady communities will be sucked out and the community might have— spirit will be sucked out too by the behaviour of some of those landlords. Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. Both hon. Labour introduced selective licensing schemes, which Members have referred to me, by saying “you”. This is I am pleased to say the Government have allowed to not my debate, and I respectfully remind them to try not continue. However, we were also going to introduce a to say “you”. national register for private landlords, which would have meant that you had to register in communities Phil Wilson: Okay. Thank you for that, Mrs Main. such as mine before you could go on to rent out properties. The hon. Lady might have people coming up to her The Government are not introducing that register. I and saying, “Thank you for us being liberated.” I have know that private landlords are not necessarily the people coming up to me and saying that they are scared Minister’s responsibility, but he has responsibility for stiff that their charity will not survive because of the the big society. He needs to discuss this issue of private cuts, or that they are scared stiff that they will not be landlords with the Department for Communities and able to work any more for the young people in their Local Government, because it is ripping the soul out village or look after the elderly, and so on, because of of some of our local communities and needs to be the cuts that they know are coming down the line. So sorted out. this issue actually cuts both ways, but I am more concerned about those people who are frightened to death about what is going to hit them. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): I totally endorse the point that my hon. Friend is making I want to end by relating a true story, which for me about the lack of registration of landlords and what I encapsulates the big society that is already here. A think is a lack of consideration by this Government of friend of mine had a couple over from America visiting the need for communities to know who landlords are, so him a few months ago. The Americans were out with that if problems with rented properties emerge, they can my friend for a meal one evening and one of them was be tackled at local level. taken ill in the street. So my friend phoned 999 on his mobile and a few minutes later a paramedic turned up, administered to the lady who was ill, made her better, Phil Wilson: My hon. Friend and I worked together a got back on his motorbike and drove away. The Americans lot on this issue with Durham county council. Many of were amazed by that. They were amazed that they did those private landlords are absentee landlords, and a lot not have to pay on the spot and that instead this man of them live abroad, so what do they care about what is just turned up on his motorbike, made sure that the happening in the villages of Sedgefield or elsewhere in person was made well and drove away, and they did not the country? It is an issue that needs to be tackled even know his name. My friend said to me, “If you want nationally and, if need be, internationally, too. I say an example of a big society that is a big society, when that because if you are not careful what you will have in that works.” That is down to the NHS, which I believe is these areas is not a big society but a non-society, because a true testimony to the big society. The NHS makes the the community spirit will be taken out of them. story of the good samaritan an everyday occurrence, If we really want a big society to flourish, and if we but I believe that this Government want to dismantle it. are “all in this together”, we must look internationally The Government might believe in a big society but they to secure a future for our communities that is protected will never get it to work, because they do not actually from unstable international financial systems. We need know what it means. a big society that is not underpinned by abolishing the future jobs fund or the education maintenance allowance, 2.49 pm and by the Prime Minister basically reneging on his pledge to send back to the drawing board any Minister Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): I read with some interest who came up with a proposal that affected the front on the Order Paper that there was going to be a debate line. on “Community Cohesion”, because I wondered what that phrase meant. Usually, the topic that is going to be Finally, I want to leave you with this example of the debated is clear from the Order Paper, and the policy kind of society— issues that will be considered and the Department that is likely to respond to the debate are usually implied by Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): I thank the hon. that. The phrase “community cohesion” does not lend Gentleman for giving way and for bringing this important itself to any of that, so I thought, at first, that it might debate to Westminster Hall. I came along because I was be shorthand for “the big society” and, as I have listened intrigued by the title of the debate, “Community Cohesion”. to the comments made by the hon. Member for Sedgefield Obviously I have listened to what you have said. I (Phil Wilson) in the debate today, that is, I think, what believe that our Localism Bill very much embeds all the has so far been intended. charities and all the volunteers within what we are On this side of the Chamber, we have certainly made trying to do, whether it is HealthWatch, the Work it clear that the size, scope and role of the Government programme, community groups or community centres. has reached a point at which it is inhibiting rather than The big society is everything that you are talking about, advancing the progressive aims of reducing poverty, just seen from a different viewpoint, and I have people fighting inequality and increasing well-being. In short, coming to me locally and saying, “Thank goodness we do not believe that Government with a capital G has we’ve been liberated to go forth and develop what we all the answers, and the coalition has made it clear that want, rather than having a top-down state approach.” its alternative to big government is the big society, a So I hope that you welcome this way forward. society in which we all recognise the responsibilities that 115WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 116WH
[Tony Baldry] After giving the brief description that I cited before giving way, Wikipedia recommends that one should we owe to ourselves, our families, the communities in also look on the site for terms such as “gemeinschaft which we find ourselves and the nation as a whole. It is a and gesellschaft”, “integration”, “multiculturalism”, “social society with much higher levels of personal, professional, cohesion”, “structural cohesion” and “social solidarity”. civic and corporate responsibility, where people come On the basis of those associated terms, it struck me that together to solve problems and to improve life for community cohesion is not a policy that would commend themselves and their communities, and where the driving itself to many of my hon. Friends, because it is clearly dynamic or progress is social responsibility, not state shorthand for state intervention by stealth. If it is not, I control. I am sure, therefore, that the concept of the big do not understand why the hon. Gentleman has not society runs, and will run, consistently through the candidly introduced a debate on the big society. coalition Government’s programme, which is reflected I then recalled, from the recesses of my mind, that by the fact that the Minister responding to this debate is there is one statutory reference to community cohesion— responsible for the policy on the big society. just one—which is that the previous Government placed The Government’s plans to reform public services, in statute in the Education and Inspections Act 2006 a mend society and rebuild trust in politics are part of the duty on schools to promote community cohesion, and big society agenda. Such plans involve redistributing an obligation on Ofsted to police whether schools were power from the state to society—from the centre to taking sufficient action to promote such cohesion. I do local communities—giving people the opportunity to take not know about other hon. Members, but in the time more control of their lives. That is why the Localism that I have been a Member in north Oxfordshire I have Bill is so important, as are similar initiatives. It was found that all the schools in my patch strive hard to play heartening to see that so many right hon. and hon. their part in the local community and do not require a Members wished to speak last week on Second Reading. tick-box exercise to determine whether they are full Some 76 Members put their names forward, which I members of the community. Indeed, how can a school suspect was a record and which reflects the considerable be isolated from what other parts of the community do? interest in the localism agenda. It has occurred to me I suspect that every head teacher and governing body that if the hon. Gentleman wanted to have a crack at in my patch believes that community cohesion is a the big society, he would have tabled something on that fundamental part of their ethos. They need neither topic at that point, and we would have found on the Ministers to tell them what they should be doing nor Order Paper a debate entitled, “The Big Society”. Ofsted inspectors to check that they, as schools, are The phrase “Community Cohesion” should therefore playing their full part in the community. mean something, and as I reflected on that I decided to I assumed, therefore, that what we would be having look it up on Wikipedia, which was not a particularly today would be synthetic row about the perfectly sensible reassuring experience. The Wikipedia reference to decision of Ministers at the Department for Education community cohesion starts by proclaiming that to remove from Ofsted inspectors the obligation to have “this article does not cite any references or sources”, regard to community cohesion when carrying out so if there is some great sociological debate going on inspections, and about the decision that inspectors should, here, it clearly has not hit Wikipedia. The website then in future, concentrate on four principal areas, namely gives a short definition: the quality of teaching, the effectiveness of leadership, “Community cohesion refers to the aspect of togetherness and pupils’ behaviour and safety, and pupils’ achievement. bonding exhibited by members of a community, the ‘glue’ that That seems an eminently sensible approach. Indeed, holds a community together. This might include features such as a and perhaps understandably, head teachers and the sense of common belonging or cultural similarity.” teaching unions have long urged that there should be I cannot work out why it is necessary for hon. Members less control from the centre and that they should to spend an hour and a half considering our sense of be trusted more to run their schools and to teach for the common belonging, because it is axiomatic that we have benefit of the pupils concerned and not for the benefit a sense of common belonging. of bureaucrats. Those four principal areas of focus for inspection by Ofsted show whether a school is performing Phil Wilson: The phrase is included in some of the effectively, but I am conscious that the people who are Conservative party documentation that I have read on opposed to Ministers removing an obligation on Ofsted the big society, and community surveys in recent years to have regard to community cohesion, are also having also talk about community cohesion. The phrase has a crack at the policy of free schools being introduced by not just come out of the blue, and the hon. Gentleman’s the Secretary of State for Education and other ministerial own party has used it to explain what the big society is colleagues at the Department. I find that hostility to all about. My point is not that anyone is against the big free schools truly bizarre. society, but that because of the cuts that you are going to bring about, you will ensure that there is no big This year we celebrate the 200th anniversary of the society. Church of England entering the field of education and the formation of the National Society. At that time, the Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. I am not Church of England introduced Church schools into cutting anything. I also ask for interventions to be brief. every parish for the purposes of educating local children. It was never intended that they should be faith schools; Tony Baldry: I hear what the hon. Gentleman has they were seen as part of the Church of England’s said, but he chose the topic for this debate, and in the central mission to the local community, and in 1944 substantial briefing prepared by the Library—it runs to Rab Butler was able to introduce his Education Act pages and pages—the phrase “community cohesion” is, only because the Church of England was prepared to interestingly, mentioned only once. integrate Church schools into the state system of education. 117WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 118WH
Then, as now, Roman Catholic and other schools buildings for a school already exist and that there are provided diversity, and in recent years that diversity has plenty of grounds and playing space at Upper Heyford been extended by the introduction and continuance of dating from when it was an air force base. The developers academies by the previous Government. Children in are willing to commit substantial amounts of money to Banbury have a choice of going to Banbury school, the new free school. which is a trust school, North Oxfordshire academy, That project chimes with what we are trying to do to which as its name suggests is an academy, or Blessed give local people much greater control over their lives. If George Napier school, which is a Roman Catholic we are to debate the big society, let us have a debate, but secondary school with a sixth form. Post 16, they can go I believe that the localism agenda, which gives people to the Oxford and Cherwell Valley further education much greater control over their own lives—having regard college. Parents welcome such choice, and head teachers, to the obligations that we all have to ourselves, our governing bodies and schools are all, in their different families and the communities in which we find ourselves—is ways, rooted in the local community. the right direction of travel. I am glad that it is this Indeed, the Education Act 1944 makes it clear that as Government’s direction of travel. far as is possible, children should be educated in accordance with their parents’ wishes, a concept endorsed fully by 3.3 pm Jim Callaghan as Prime Minister in the mid-1970s during his notable speech at Ruskin college on education, Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I in which he made it clear that whatever parents wanted congratulate the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) for their children, the state should want for all our on securing this important debate. Like the hon. Member children. I thus find it entirely bizarre that the Labour for Banbury (Tony Baldry), when I saw “Community party, which endorsed the academies programme while Cohesion” on the Order Paper, I was confused about in Government—not just in inner cities but in areas what this debate would address. I started preparing for and constituencies such as mine—wants to pull up the a debate about community cohesion and stopping the drawbridge now that it is in opposition. radicalisation of young people. Then, fortunately, I Who is it that the Opposition do not trust—head received the Library briefing, which made it clear that teachers, governing bodies or parents? Occasionally, they we would be discussing community cohesion and the seek to show their opposition to free schools by having big society. I am pleased to discuss that as well— a crack at faith groups, but faith groups, such as the Church of England, have, as I have said, been running Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. I point out to schools in this country very effectively for 200 years. I the hon. Gentleman that the debate is about community was fortunate enough to attend a faith school. A couple cohesion. As the previous speaker felt free to explore of months ago, I returned there to take part in a the terminology, the hon. Gentleman is free to explore it seminar commemorating the life and work of one of however he sees fit. the school’s distinguished old boys, Michael Foot. I fail to understand why some in the Labour party wish to Tom Brake: Thank you, Mrs Main. For the purposes pull up the ladder that they and others climbed. of this debate, a discussion of projects to reduce I am pleased that a new free school is proposed in my radicalisation among young people might take us off constituency that will take pupils from age eight through the agenda that other Members intended to debate. secondary level. RAF Upper Heyford was a United Also, the Minister does not have responsibility for that States air force base until the early 1990s. For some particular aspect of Government policy. I intend to years, the base was in limbo while various national focus on the big society. My borough, the London house builders who owned the site negotiated the planning borough of Sutton, is one of the four lead authorities process. Heyford Park now has planning permission for on the big society, so the issue is close to my heart. 1,000 homes, including the existing 300, and parents As the hon. Member for Sedgefield said in his opening there made it clear in a survey that they would like a remarks, it will clearly be harder for the Government combined primary and secondary school built at Heyford and people throughout the country to deliver a big Park. A Heyford Park parents’ group has grown up as a society agenda against the nation’s current financial result of that effort to seek parents’ views, and it in turn backdrop. We have the largest budget deficit in the G20. has developed into Heyford Park parents’ planning The Government are rightly taking measures to address group for a new free school. that, and many organisations will be affected. I intervened I strongly support the initiative. It seems totally in on him to point out that his Government accepted that accord with the Government’s policy on free schools such action would be necessary. I was not aware of any and new academies. It also has the benefit of an existing suggestion in his remarks that the voluntary sector, for community that will grow over time and from which instance, should be ring-fenced from the budget cuts. I such a school can be born in terms of parental support was hoping that he might set out an alternative approach and a geographical area. In addition, there is no primary that took into account the fact that we face difficult or secondary school in the area whose offering the financial circumstances. However, he did not do so, creation of a Heyford Park academy would challenge, providing us with a list of things that he did not think threaten or undermine, as all the existing primary schools the Government should cut rather than an alternative nearby are effectively full, obliging many primary school approach to deliver the £44 billion in savings that his children from the area to travel a considerable distance Government would have made, if they had been elected to Bicester. The creation of the school would allow on6May. children to go to school much nearer where they live. On the big society, I make an unashamed plug for the The planning group includes Roy Blatchford, former work being done in the London borough of Sutton. head teacher of Bicester community college and one of The borough is concentrating on four things. It is Her Majesty’s inspectors. I am glad to report that the developing the Sutton Life centre. It is concentrating on 119WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 120WH
[Tom Brake] Let me read a couple of comments from people who responded to the poll. Sarah said: the public transport agenda, particularly smarter travel. “I believe this is a good opportunity for the community to It is progressing health provision, GP commissioning work together for the common good of all.” and ensuring that local people and the local authority John said: have a bigger say in health provision. Finally—this is “It is easy to be cynical about Government and see this as a the area that I will focus on most—it is developing the middle class gimmick but we all need to feel more connected to Hackbridge vision, which is a grassroots effort. That is each other...Let’s get on and test it.” what the big society should be about. The community is Explaining why she collected litter in her road and the driving a project to make Hackbridge the most sustainable surrounding area, Margaret said: suburb in the country. “If more people did this we would have pride back in where we The Hackbridge project has already got off to a good live. It is not taking jobs from people it is simply helping us to start. Members might be aware of a residential development help ourselves.” called BedZED, which has been widely covered in many In the London borough of Sutton, at least, there is a colour supplements in recent years. BedZED has received strong desire to engage—people are not cynical. visitors from all over the world. When I catch the train In conclusion, I hope that the Minister will tell us that goes through Hackbridge, I often see visitors from which rules and regulations that apply to the Government, every country in the world getting off at Hackbridge local government, the police and the NHS will be and going to visit the development. It will form the core changed to facilitate the big society process. For me and around which the rest of the initiatives will be developed. my constituents, that process is about helping people The community, local authority and developers are all get involved. Currently, they are being prevented from working successfully to develop the concept. I am sure doing so, because a few obstacles have been thrown in that renewable energy plants will be delivered there. The their way. Those obstacles are not really necessary and local landfill site is already putting energy back into the can easily be removed. I accept that the Localism Bill, grid using turbines. That is exactly what the big society which the hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) is about—a grassroots movement to develop a community has mentioned, is part of that process, but I hope that sustainably and with the support of local people. the Minister and his officials are identifying some of the I will mention a couple of exemplars. When the local obstacles. I also hope that will be able to tell us—if not authority identified the need for a children’s centre on now, perhaps as things develop—exactly what bonfire the site of Amy Johnson primary school, the borough of regulations and rules will take place to enable people could offer only limited cash to the school. It said to the to engage in the big society in the way in which they are school, “We have £180,000 that we’re going to spend on keen to. developing this.” The school governors came back and said, “Give us the money and we’ll do it.” The local 3.13 pm authority said, “Okay, but we will not give you £1 more than £180,000.” The school governors and parents Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I thank you, Mrs Main, went away and designed a project that ended up with and the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) for 40% more floor space than what the local authority was giving me the opportunity to speak in this important going to offer. It was also designed to their specification debate. and delivered within the £180,000 envelope. In addition We all accept that community cohesion is a wide-ranging to the voluntary contribution from the school governors, notion. We all want to live in a community where we the school caretaker, who had worked in the building feel safe from crime, where we give our children a good trade, took on a lot of the project management. That is education and where everyone comes together at times a good example of what can be done in big society of need to help those who need help most. terms. When I was first selected as the prospective MP for Another initiative is the Wandle Trust, which has Hexham, and we first started talking about the big taken over responsibility for maintaining the River Wandle society and community cohesion, individuals in the from the Environment Agency. It is involving many 1,100 square miles that I am lucky enough to represent more volunteers than the Environment Agency could said, “But we already have this. We do this already.” ever hope to. Another example is Gaynesford Lodge, However, they would then add a “but” and talk about which provides day care for senior citizens. It is looking the obstacles that prevented them from going forward at setting up a social enterprise to take on responsibility and being freed up to do things. I will attempt to for providing that service, and I hope that it will receive identify those individual problems, although I do not advice from the Government to help it do that. particularly seek to criticise previous Governments. None the less, it is clear that there is much in the big society Earlier this week, I was at an event where the Federation agenda that we can take forward and use as an asset. of Bangladeshi Caterers talked about the role that its There have been accusations—in The Times on Monday, businesses can play in the big society. That might involve for example—that the big society is not being implemented providing training or business mentoring to young people. in the way in which everybody would like, but, in my Its members are therefore keen to get engaged. respectful submission, that is not right. Although the I carry out an electronic poll once a month, sending big society is there to a degree, and it comes to the out e-mails to about 6,000 constituents. One of those forefront in times of crisis, the coalition has managed to straw polls was about the big society, and I am pleased make it an individual, overriding aim. Apart from wiping to say that 53% of the people who responded said that out the deficit, which clearly must be done, we want to they would want to get actively involved in big society decentralise government. Effectively, we are enablers; projects. There is, therefore, a real desire to get involved. we are trying to take government back to the people, 121WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 122WH who are in charge. I can give multiple examples of that, have, delightfully, been offered the vice-presidency of but that is surely all about trying to give power back to the Prudhoe allotments, a welcome activity for destressing the people with whom it fundamentally rests. on a wet weekend. It follows from that vein of thought that it is up to There are small projects, but there are also very big individuals actively to transform community cohesion ones. One is in the village of Humshaugh, which has a from being big only in times of need, as it was perhaps village shop. It lost its post office, which is a problem in the past, to being something that exists at all times. faced by every constituency. In Humshaugh, with the People need to be aware of it at all stages. I implore my post office having gone and the shop struggling, the colleagues to get behind this initiative, if they have not villagers faced closure, because they had no money to done so already. go on with. So the community rallied round and enlisted I want to make an unashamed plug at this point. On the support of a wealth of individuals. I use the word 11 February, more than 100 individuals will get together “wealth”because everyone involved—60-odd people—gives in Hexham to see how we can take community cohesion their time for free. It is an amazing example of a shop forward. The event is not sponsored by anybody that closed, then reopened and is progressing. There individually, although I am paying the bill. We are was a contribution by a business man who prefers to bringing together all manner of people—representatives remain nameless, but everyone else was involved. People of different faiths, councillors and housing representatives thought that that was so good that they were a bit upset —to look at the opportunities. I will come to that in a about the pub. The Crown Inn, Humshaugh, had not bit more detail, but I just wanted to give the context in gone into receivership but it was not far off, so the which we are working. villagers took it over as well. Ever since I have had the honour of representing I want to discuss broadband. Everyone knows that Hexham, we have tried to support many big society there are efforts to take it forward. I am lucky in that my initiatives, with the aim of creating more community hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border cohesion. I want to list 10 things that we are doing. (Rory Stewart), whose constituency neighbours mine, First, we have an internship programme in the constituency has money and funding for the Eden Valley project, office to which everybody contributes. We have had which is a very successful and good project. It is just 35 young people, which is an awful lot in seven months. over the border—I wish it was with us, but such is life, They have been aged from 16 to 22, and 10 of them have and we must get on with it. We have gone to see what is already completed the programme. A further 30 young happening, and we are trying to dovetail with what it is people have signed up for the internship programme doing. Kielder forest and the Northumberland national for 2011. park cover huge areas, with probably the largest forest Secondly, the volunteers and I help to run our MP’s in the country. We have no broadband or mobile phone charity quiz nights. We go to local pubs around the coverage, and we have a problem with making progress, constituency raising money for charities. We have worked so we work with a host of different providers. How are for Help the Heroes and a local charity, Tynedale Activities they helping us? We have worked on the concept, of for Special Children. which the Minister will be aware, that there are alternatives, Thirdly, we are committed to an annual Christmas and we are considering how we can use Northumbrian social action project. Lots of people have such projects, Water, which is a substantial, FTSE 100 company. One but I want to give some idea of the extent of ours. I have might consider it and think, “How can you help? You a spare office—it is meant to be my surgery office—but are a very wealthy company.” In reality it is telling us I had to move out of it, because so many people that it is possible that it can provide pre-existing sewers contributed presents. The project mushroomed and acquired and the like, and that we can use them to make alternative a wonderful life of its own. We sent those presents to provision. There are other good examples to assist us, Support Our Soldiers and collected care packages for and I am hopeful that as the Eden Valley project our serving troops. The response in the community was expands, we shall be able to do more. wonderful. Almost more interestingly, the two regiments Ninthly, I want to talk about planning, which is a involved—one is 39 Regiment Royal Artillery—wrote huge issue in every constituency. Youhave got individual to tell us what an amazing contribution that we had people, on a regular basis— made. One individual even wrote just before Christmas, but sadly passed away. We saw the impact on the people we were trying to help on a regular basis. Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. I have no individuals, and the hon. Gentleman should refrain There is also our social action programme, which has from using the word “you”. ideas for youth training, job clubs and producing community guides. There is not, for example, in the wonderful, wild world of Northumberland, a universal Guy Opperman: I apologise, Mrs Main. guide to its best parts, so we are producing one ourselves. Hon. Members have individual problems with planning, We managed to persuade the tourist board to give us and they are struggling, but that can be addressed. The what it uses, such as photographs, and we shall integrate Localism Bill will be of huge import, and it will be a all those things into our programme, so that during the huge success in the effort to free up the ongoing planning weekend all the individuals who are trying to set up bed crisis. I urge hon. Members to get behind it. The Bill is a and breakfast or support for organisations will be supported large one, and we could talk about it for hours, as we by us. saw last week. All the things that I am discussing are We also have volunteers who support nature projects about enabling people to do things. I keep coming back such as tree and bulb planting, and community allotment to that, because with such enablement we can take good days throughout the constituency. I am not at all green- ideas forward. Instead of a system that requires five or fingered, but I am becoming better by the minute and six different referrals to go through the Leader programme 123WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 124WH
[Guy Opperman] order to see how we can work in our communities? Is that not what MPs do? We try to figure out the solutions or other One North East programmes and get a result, to problems and work together. We have to work within things should be much quicker, simpler and faster. I the set budget to take that forward, but, at the same hope that they will be. time, I have found in my local community a desire to I want to finish by talking about the Tynedale big explore the capabilities of individuals and communities, society summit, which will be held in just over two and I have felt a bubbling up from the ground for people weeks’ time. There will be representatives from business, to take control of what they are doing. faith groups, voluntary organisations, local politicians, Big society may be two small words that mean a huge health and housing, and environmental groups to help amount to different people, but when the idea was people with local government. I hope that the key introduced, the people of Wirral West grasped it. When players in expanding and enabling the big society will shops closed on the high street, they came together and come together across Tynedale with the intention of asked, “What can we do?” They did not want to see that sharing best practice and past successes, and developing in their little villages and towns, of which they are very a local framework that will help organisations and proud. Art shops and places for children and families volunteers to play a strong role in delivering the ideas may have opened, but when people saw council-owned behind the big society. Participants will be able to pieces of land, such as allotment areas, they wanted to question a range of guests on the opportunities ahead expand on that and have some more, so that their sons for the third sector to play a central role in the procurement could go there with their dads—and mums with their and delivery of services. daughters—to understand what a root vegetable is and There will also be specific examples of project-based what fruit and vegetables are, rather than buy them best practice shared between the various sectors, in from a supermarket. All those things were bubbling and which local groups have made a difference to their building up. communities, as well as group discussions on a plan of There were also asset transfers. The local community action taking forward ideas of further co-operation centre was not doing so well, so people living in the area between those existing groups and volunteers. Best of thought, “We know what’s best,” and they have taken it all, the whole day will be staffed—aside from being paid on board and are working together. Even bigger schemes for by my good self—by local volunteers who are interns. started to bubble up, too. They asked whether first-time The sandwiches will be provided by a start-up company buyers could afford local housing and thought about that wants to expand. The essence of what we are trying what they were going to do about social housing. They to do is there. are now looking to develop a plot of land that will be I could talk about the effect when previous councils, affordable for first-time buyers, and an eco-environment, who suffered the blame for unpopular decisions, blamed which we would desperately like in our area. Whitehall in the face of local anger. Things have developed We are all looking for community cohesion, which is to the point where very few people seem prepared to why, when I read an article in The Observer last week accept responsibility for a mistake or for unpopular which cited ideas on the Labour big society, based on decisions, whether right or wrong. That has even been local loyalties, family and common good, I thought that transmitted to the social level. We live in a democracy that was not so far removed from the Conservative big where it is important to feel that someone can have their society. My example of the allotment is about the say, if they want their view to be heard. family, and my example of the community centre is We need to consider the glue that binds us together. about the common good for the local area, which is also On a national level, it can be a range of things, such as the case with affordable housing. sport, conflict or even a general election. Those things The big society must be explored by hon. Members bring us together, but often in different or separate on both sides of the House, and we have to work within camps. There are few instances where we are all the set budget. That is why I welcome the Conservative unequivocally united on one side. We may be divided party’s proposals for a £50 million community first over the fighting in Afghanistan, but we are united in fund and a £10 million voluntary match fund, as well supporting our troops and doing our bit to ensure that as the piloting of the national citizen service and the they are supported. It is that sense of shared investment, £100 million transition fund. All those things must a shared contribution and a shared goal that brings us come together. together into a cohesive community not only nationally I am delighted to hear about community cohesion, but locally. With the investments and projects that I which is something that we are all trying to achieve, and have described, and with us as enablers, we can and I will be delighted to hear from the Minister not just should take that forward. about what else we are going to do that will work in places such as Wirral West, but about what would be an 3.29 pm enabler in places such as Sedgefield, which may have very different needs. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): I came to listen to the debate and perhaps make an intervention, but I thought that what I had to say might go on too long and 3.33 pm you might ask me to sit down, Mrs Main. Therefore Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): I thought I might say something near the end of the It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, debate if there was time. Mrs Main. We have had an interesting and wide-ranging When I saw the title, “Community Cohesion”, I debate. I shall begin by congratulating my hon. Friend thought, “What an admirable debate.” Is that not what the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) on securing everyone, on both sides of the House, is looking at in this important debate. His description of the community 125WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 126WH he serves is familiar to me. We are both very fortunate more than doubled the amount of money provided to and privileged to serve as MPs for ex-mining communities. the charitable sector, and we encouraged more volunteering. He is right to point out that, over many years, these Organisations such as V did wonders to improve the communities have often been denied the tools to improve number and range of volunteering activities available to their areas, notwithstanding their ability and desire to young people, and that is just one example. The outcome do so. He was also right to remind us of the centrality of of Labour’s support for the sector was greatly to increase mutualism and co-operatives to the development of the number of those involved in volunteering, and to communities and, indeed, to the Labour party itself. expand the role of the sector in delivering services. Moreover, he was right to question whether the Surely, therefore, it is a matter of great disappointment Government’s agenda is more than self-help. that recent data from the citizenship survey for April to The hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) made a September 2010 show that 24% of people volunteered number of interesting points about the role of the state. formally at least once a month, which is a lower level I say to him that, if Labour went too far in using the than that which existed previously and, perhaps, a surprise state as a way of improving communities, I hope that he given the emphasis placed on volunteering by this would accept that this Government could be going too Government. We should not, however, be at all surprised far in dismantling the state, particularly the welfare that, this week, we began to see questions in the media state. He might also want to consider the impact of that about whether the cuts might be choking the sector and on disadvantaged areas in particular. He was right, impeding the development of the big society. All MPs however, to applaud the Localism Bill, which includes are now becoming aware of how cuts to funding are some useful elements and has created high aspirations impacting on not just the voluntary sector in their for what it could deliver in my constituency. I hope that constituencies, but on smaller charities and agencies the Government will deliver on their rhetoric for my that undertake highly valuable work in all of our constituents. communities. As we might have expected, the hon. Member for As if things on the funding front were not bad Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) started off by enough, it is interesting to note that Phillip Blond—one blaming Labour for the world’s ills, but I hope that he of the architects of the big society—is quoted in the would accept that Labour set out a clear plan to reduce press this week as having to argue that the big society is the deficit. We said that we would do it more slowly and not in crisis. Of course, as soon as he tries to defend the carefully than this Government. big society, we immediately think that it must be in crisis and that his comments suggest that there is trouble. Tom Brake: If the plan was set out in such detail, will As my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield has so the hon. Lady clarify what its impact would have been eloquently pointed out, Labour knows the value of on the voluntary sector and its capacity to deliver the supporting community development. My right hon. sort of things under discussion? Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) did much at the Department for Communities and Roberta Blackman-Woods: As I said, we set out clearly Local Government to put community empowerment how we would reduce the deficit more slowly. The on the agenda, but I sometimes wonder if the current amount of money that we would have reduced would, Government understand the support that some therefore, have been less, so there would not have been communities and sections of communities need for these huge, up-front cuts affecting local government. that. Interestingly, the hon. Gentleman outlined vividly one We know that levels of volunteering vary hugely of the points that I wish to make—the voluntary sector across the country, yet it is the areas that have the lowest and the big society were not invented by this Government. levels of volunteering—the poorest areas—that are suffering Much wonderful community and voluntary activity is most from the public spending cuts. Those are the areas already taking place, as he demonstrated so eloquently where most needs to be done. The deprived inner-city by talking about what is happening in his own constituency. areas of London and the northern cities are experiencing The hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) the most drastic cuts, which undoubtedly will be passed outlined the obstacles that may prevent voluntary activity, on to the voluntary sector. If we are faced with huge but he gave little recognition to the fact that some cuts to services and funding, the Government will have individuals are more able than others to undertake such to redouble their efforts if they are to succeed in developing activity. Perhaps the atlas and geography of volunteering more enterprise and mutuals in those circumstances. need to be taken into consideration. Nevertheless, I pay The big society bank has been put forward as a means tribute to the many volunteers in his constituency and of achieving that, but there are big questions about the to the wonderful work that is taking place, as I do to the delay in its implementation and whether it will have hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), who has enough resources to do its job. pointed out that much is already happening in her As well as flagging up what is happening with the constituency and that the Government could do more levels of volunteering, the citizenship survey is important to enable further activity to take place. in other regards. It shows that 86% of adults in England On the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member were satisfied with their local area as a place to live, that for Sedgefield, he was absolutely correct to focus on 85% thought their community was cohesive and that what is undermining the big society, rather than to 64% were not worried about being a victim of crime. question the principles that underpin the idea of That is hardly evidence of the broken Britain that the encouraging more volunteering, supporting community Government feel has to be fixed by an army of volunteers. organisation and development, and giving a new impetus That is not to say that volunteering is not important; to social enterprise, co-operatives and mutuals. It would quite the opposite, it suggests that much of what the be churlish for us to do that. In Government, Labour Government say they want to create already exists in 127WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 128WH
[Roberta Blackman-Woods] Phil Wilson: Will the Minister give way? communities up and down the country. We saw many examples of that this afternoon. If they are to do more, Mr Hurd: I will not take an intervention at this point they need support in terms of finances, resources and because I want to move on from that issue. infrastructure, at least in a number of areas that face multiple and complex problems and have social needs. I shall address the hon. Gentleman’s main concerns Social action can be a key feature in turning communities about what the big society is, what the Government are around, but it is not the only ingredient that is necessary. trying to achieve and what we mean by it. If he wants to look at the record tomorrow, he will see that my hon. I hope that the Minister will say what support he Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) articulated intends to give to groups and agencies suffering cuts the matter as well as anyone, when he talked about beyond the inadequate transition fund and, crucially, trying to promote a greater culture of social responsibility. how his community organiser programme will work The idea is not fresh air because, as the hon. Member with existing organisations. Perhaps he could answer for City of Durham and various hon. Members pointed the question posed in yesterday’s leader in The Times on out, a lot of wonderful activity is going on in constituencies why the Government still have to develop any signature across the country, where people are working together policies or to bring examples of what the big society and giving up time to try to find better ways of doing means. The Times was also useful for letting us know things, supporting initiatives and getting things going. that the Minister has written to ask what ideas Conservative MPs have to make the big society a success. We will The Government want to throw a bigger spotlight on await the answers with interest. In the meantime, it is that activity to try to make it easier for people to do important to do what we can to support community more such things and be more ambitious. The matter and voluntary organisations and to develop social should not be divisive. My hon. Friend the Member for enterprises and mutuals, not least as a means of employment Wirral West (Esther McVey) put the argument beautifully. in our poorest communities. It will be interesting to We should all be encouraging such things. I shall put the hear from the Minister how he intends to achieve that. matter simply: it is about trying to encourage more people to get involved. There is no point pretending 3.43 pm that all is rosy in the garden, as I think both Labour The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Members were saying when they cited the citizenship Hurd): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, survey.We know that the country faces enormous challenges Mrs Main, for the first time. We have had an excellent, and that there are very stubborn, expensive social problems. wide-ranging debate and you have chaired it very firmly. It seems absolutely ridiculous to continue pretending I congratulate the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil that the state, people here or in Whitehall or even local Wilson) on not just securing the debate, but battling flu authority chief executives somehow have all the solutions. so valiantly and presenting a sincere picture of his concerns for his constituency. From my constituency, I know that we have barely begun to scratch the surface of the value that residents— I have picked out three things that I would like to constituents—can bring to the idea in terms of tapping respond to directly. First, I shall discuss the hon. into the talent, expertise, experience, ideas, networks Gentleman’s suggestion that the Government do not and skills that are out there in communities. The big really know what big society means—he talked about society is about trying to get more people involved and fresh air in that context. I would also like to address his engaged in traditional volunteering or in that hugely valid concern about cuts to the voluntary community important valuable work that we all know about from sector, which was picked up by his colleague who represents our constituencies. It is about providing the opportunity the beautiful city of Durham, the hon. Member for City to give time to help improve someone else’s life. The of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods). I would then value of that is two-way. Of course, we want to encourage like to deal with the issue of landlords and how their more of that, but it is by no means the whole story. The practices risk unsettling, dividing and undermining big society is also about trying to get more people communities. involved in shaping the future of communities, in the Out of courtesy, if I could address the specific issue decisions that really matter and in trying to save things first, I will undertake to write to the Minister for if things need to be saved, such as post offices, pubs, Housing and Local Government on the issue of a shops or whatever. It is about trying to combat the voice national register. That subject is not my direct responsibility that I hear from constituents who say, “It’s not worth and I am sure that there are lots of complexities underlying getting involved because it’s not as if we can change his suggestion, so I will write to the Minister for Housing anything.” That is what we want to change. and Local Government to alert him to the concern expressed in this debate. I have discussed the matter The big society goes beyond that into the reform of with a colleague who represents a seat in Cornwall. public services and trying to open those up and get the That is a long way from Sedgefield, but it has exactly people who pay for them and use them more involved in the same problem he mentioned. That area adopted the them. Again, in my constituency, I get a sense that grass-roots solution of personal advocacy. Basically, people are becoming increasingly resentful of just taking the community was fed up with the situation, so it got what they are given and feeling that matters are being together and lobbied directly the people causing the dealt with in a very detached way. Yes, this is about problem and forced a change in policy. I do not know encouraging more volunteering, but it is also about how applicable that is in Sedgefield, but there are examples getting people more involved at a local level in shaping around the country where that problem has been tackled the public services that they use. My hon. Friend the by grass-roots action—a very big society response. I will Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) used the powerful write directly to the Minister on his behalf. expression, “giving the power back,” which I liked. 129WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 130WH
The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom ideas on what Government can do with partners—the Brake) was entirely right: that is what people want; they charitable sector and business—to make it easier for would like to get more involved. The citizenship survey people to give time and money. showed that, and we are trying to make it easier. We have announced the pilots of the next phase of There is a specific, proactive, big role for Government. the national citizen service. Again, that is a powerful, There is no point in pretending that suddenly Government positive programme, which is designed to connect young will disappear. The Government will play a hugely people with their ability to make a contribution to their important part in all our lives, whatever the scale of the communities. I think that one of the biggest pilots, spending cuts. However, when it comes to making it involving 1,000 young people, is taking place on the easier for people to get involved and making the case for edge of the constituency of the hon. Member for Sedgefield. that more compelling, the Government are absolutely I urge him to engage with it, because I have seen that committed and on track, and will be delivering through that programme can be very powerful in lifting the three strands of action. aspirations and confidence of young people. The first strand is about transferring real power to The hon. Member for City of Durham rightly challenged communities. That is now moving from words to realities. me on this important point: the big society must be The specific measure has been mentioned—the Localism open to all. We all know that some communities are in a Bill. I am very pleased about and encouraged by the stronger position than others to take advantage of it. I welcome that it has received, not least from the hon. represent a relatively affluent, suburban constituency Member for City of Durham. It is raising expectations. on the edge of London, a long way from Sedgefield. My I think that that is right. People are excited about it, communities are well networked, strong and ambitious which suggests that its time has come. It is a huge piece and, I think, will respond quickly to that agenda, but of legislation, with lots of new rights and opportunities. other communities will need some help. However, there is more to the issue than just legislation. The Government are determined to be proactive in The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington encouraging, supporting and helping those communities challenged me to be more specific about what we are to help themselves. That is one of the driving forces doing to get out of the way. He was entirely right. If he behind our community organiser and community first listens to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for programmes, which we will be announcing more details Communities and Local Government, he will get the of soon. The aim will be to establish, in those communities, sense that that is a Secretary of State who wants to do people who can bring people together, organise communities exactly that. He wants to change the whole nature of his and start building networks—people who have the Department so that it works for citizens. confidence to start getting people together to get things The hon. Gentleman may be aware that our approach done. With that will be a neighbourhood grant programme. is to send this message to communities: “Tell us what is Again, that will be targeted on the most disadvantaged getting in the way and we will work to see what we can areas, where the social capital is lowest. It will put do to remove it.” There is a specific barrier-busting money into the hands of neighbourhood groups to help service, of which he may be aware. That flows from a them to develop and deliver on their own plans. The very powerful piece of legislation called the Sustainable hon. Member for City of Durham mentioned the big Communities Act 2007, which I took through Parliament society bank. That is wholly designed to make it easier as a private Member’s Bill. Already, communities are for social entrepreneurs—people who want to take a bit responding to this invitation: “Tell us what’s getting in of a risk to get things happening and who want to do the way and we will see whether we can remove it, but things differently in those areas—to access capital. give us the specifics.” The new website was launched a The Government are doing things, but things are also few weeks ago, and I think that more than 50 proposals beginning to happen in communities. My hon. Friend have come in already. That is on top of the 300 different the Member for Banbury was very modest about his proposals that we had for the first wave under the pioneering work on developing job clubs in his constituency. Sustainable Communities Act. These things are community My hon. Friend the Member for Hexham is getting a driven, so there is a real determination on our part to big society initiative going in his constituency. In my get out of the way. constituency, I am convening people in exactly the same The second strand is about public service reform: way—in one ward, people are concerned about the opening up the public services to new providers, including, future and feel that they need to come together and specifically, the voluntary and community sector; bringing think about a neighbourhood plan for the area. I am those services closer to the people who use them; and facilitating that. liberating people who are in the front line delivering the Last week I was in Halifax, where groups of people services. My hon. Friend the Member for Banbury from the public sector—different stakeholders—were talked passionately about schools. He will know from gathered round a table, talking about partnership in a his experience with local heads about their desire to be way that they never had before, because they felt that liberated. Specifically in relation to public service reform, that was possible and they were being encouraged to do a White Paper, which I think will be published next it. One could sense that they were not going to go back month, will set out our stall on that and explain exactly to the bad old ways of sitting in their silos and just how we intend to go about it. pursuing their individual targets and budgets. Something The third strand is about social action—trying to is happening and changing out there, and it needs to, inspire people and make it easier for them to give time because we have to find better ways of doing things. and money to get things done locally to help people. I shall spend the time left to me on dealing with the Again, the words are now being backed up by actions. very important issue of cuts to the voluntary and The Cabinet Office has published a Green Paper on community sector, which is an emotive issue for many giving, which will lead to a White Paper. We seek fresh hon. Members. I have written to every Member of 131WH Community Cohesion26 JANUARY 2011 Community Cohesion 132WH
[Mr Hurd] not expect them to take the easy option of making cuts to the voluntary and community sector before they have Parliament, inviting them to bring in representatives of taken the opportunity to pursue their own efficiencies. their voluntary and community sector to talk to me Many councils, such as Reading and Wiltshire, which I about that, and many have taken up the invitation. heard about today, are increasing the amount of funding Of course, the voluntary and community sector is that they are giving to the voluntary and community hugely important to this project, because of its ability sector. We are continuing to invest in the training of to support and mobilise people, but it is not—we should commissioners. We have reviewed and updated the compact, be frank about this—the whole story. Business has a which is the framework that steers the relationship. The hugely important part to play, as do citizens and residents Office for Civil Society is continuing to invest to support groups and as do Government. Charities are not a and strengthen the sector. proxy for community, but they are a hugely important We have three priorities. We ask ourselves, “What are partner in the process. we doing to make it easier to run a charity or voluntary There is a very difficult issue, which we should not sector organisation?” We are continuing to invest in underestimate, in relation to managing the transition. infrastructure to support the sector. We are examining However, we need to be honest about this. Unfortunately, the red tape and regulation that get in the way. There the sector cannot be immune from the cuts. The nation are reviews across Government in respect of the Criminal is spending £120 million a day in interest and borrowing Records Bureau and health and safety. Again, we are £1 for every £4 that we spend. That is not sustainable. trying to get out of the way where we can. We are We have to reduce public spending on a scale that actively examining ways of getting more resources into means that, unfortunately, the sector cannot be immune. the sector. The giving Green Paper is about trying to That would have been a reality confronted by the Labour stimulate more charitable giving. The social investment Government, exactly as the hon. Member for Carshalton bank—the big society bank—is about trying to grow a and Wallington emphasised, so there are cuts and there new market of social investment. We are reviewing will continue to be cuts. everything that we can to try to make it easier for charities, voluntary organisations and social enterprises Tom Brake: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? to deliver more public services. Mr Hurd: I would rather not, because I would like to The transition that we have to manage is very difficult, finish this important point. The numbers being bandied but we are trying to help the sector to work towards a around are entirely speculative. The Government are future in which it can be a very active player in the big monitoring the situation closely, at central and local society, delivering more public services, helping to give government level, because we are concerned that the people a voice at local level, and benefiting from the process should be managed properly. We established a extra time and money that we hope people will give. The transition fund, which has now closed. That process Government are absolutely determined to make it easier was well run. From the Prime Minister down, we have for people to get involved, to live in even better connected sent a strong steer to local authority leaders that we do communities and to feel part of something bigger. 133WH 26 JANUARY 2011 UK Internet Search Engines 134WH
UK Internet Search Engines are suggestions that Google’s search results are influenced by advertising and even that Google’s technology might deliberately lower the visibility of rival sites. 4pm Acting as the principal gateway to the internet, Google Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Thank you, Mrs Main, has a responsibility to ensure that it provides an open for chairing this Adjournment debate. I am told that it and transparent service, and one that is free from bias is on a subject that has not been addressed in Parliament or purchased favouritism. Because of its domination of so substantially before. However, the subject affects the the global search market and its ability to penalise UK economy and other European economies, and my competitors by placing its own services at the top of constituency particularly. search results, Google has a virtually unassailable Reach Global, in the ward of Church in my constituency, competitive advantage. Moreover, Google can deploy is a major online company involved in the search for, that advantage well beyond the confines of the search and retrieval and collation of information—it is a search engine sector to any service that it chooses. Wherever it engine. Netmovers is a major property internet search does so, incumbents are toppled, new entrants are site that Reach Global owns and it is part of Reach suppressed and innovation is imperilled. The top result Global’s portfolio of vertical UK search engines. Reach in any search usually results in 50% of the traffic going Global’s owners are resident in the UK, they pay taxes through that site, so it is easy to see why anyone would in the UK and they employ and train British people. want to have the number one slot in the return on any Reach Global is a cutting-edge British company, but search that is made. like many British companies it is being squeezed out by The preferential placement of Google’s price comparison unfair and anti-competitive practices by Google. There service, for example, caused traffic to the UK’s leading is growing evidence that Google is leveraging its dominance price comparison services to fall by an average of 41% in the search engine market into adjacent markets, over two years. During the same period, internet traffic much as Microsoft did when it leveraged its dominance in general rose by 30%. That is a marked contrast, but in the operating systems market into adjacent markets, more marked is the fact that traffic to Google’s price such as the web browser market. comparison site rose by 125% during the same period. E-commerce and e-business are booming. According The preferential placement of Google Maps decimated to 2009 figures from the Office for National Statistics, traffic to Multimap and Streetmap, the UK’s two leading the UK’s digital economy supports 143,000 enterprises, online mapping services. The share price of TomTom, a generating a total turnover of £178 billion of revenue, European maker of navigation systems, fell by 40% this with nearly £100 billion of gross added value to the UK week after the announcement of Google’s free turn-by-turn economy. Against that exponential growth, however, satellite navigation service. RightMove, Britain’s leading there is evidence that some smaller companies are finding real estate portal, lost 10% of its market value on the that they are unable to gain access to the online search basis of a mere rumour that Google was planning a UK engine market. property search service. According to Ofcom, in May 2010, 87% of internet The delineation between advertising and search results search engine users chose Google. Numerically, that is is becoming blurred. It is becoming more difficult to 32.4 million out of 35 million UK searches, which was separate a sponsored from an unsponsored result. Google’s up 5% on the previous year. Google’s grip is tightening revenues exceeded $29 billion last year, but that pales further. By January 2011, its market share had risen to next to the hundreds of billions of dollars of other 91% of the UK search market and as a result it dominated companies’ revenues that Google controls indirectly online advertising revenue. Bing has 3.87% market share, through search results and sponsored links. That revenue- Yahoo! 2.85%, Ask 1.26% and the remainder of the driven model has encouraged Google to begin promoting providers, including UK providers, have just 1.34% of its own services at or near the top of its search results, market share between them. bypassing the algorithms that it uses to rank the services Google has been the focus of much criticism, with of others. claims that it could be abusing its dominant position in Reach Global in my constituency currently hosts a the market. In my view, Google has gone from being a UK-focused search engine that is in its seventh incarnation. competitor to a predator and from a horizontal organic The search engine, Searchers, has been in continual search client to a monopoly giant, with subliminal and development for seven years and is independent and unclear sponsored searches that favour other Google owned and funded by a private company. It is a very products. British enterprise. I am led to believe that it is the largest It is important that we create the right market conditions UK search engine apart from those emanating from the to facilitate innovation in the online economy.Competition United States. Reach Global believes that Searchers must be allowed to flourish, which I believe would could have an important role to play in the domestic create the right conditions and defend the interests of economy where it claims Google fails: focusing on British companies, particularly high-tech IT companies. British business, promoting a sense of our national Concerns are now being raised that Google’s dominant identity and, crucially, aiming to keep at least a portion position is stifling innovation and preventing smaller of the massive advertising revenues available within our companies from entering the market. Earlier this month, economy. As it is UK-based, its results are relevant to Google was in the headlines for disclosing that in 2010 UK users. it had made £2.2 billion in the UK market, claiming I hope that the Minister will take up an offer to visit approximately 50% of UK online advertising revenue. Reach Global. It is a fantastic company, and its investment All that has led to Google becoming subject to an EU in IT is incredible. I hope that he will accept that offer anti-trust investigation into its European operations, and see for himself what a great company it is. According with allegations of anti-competitive behaviour. There to the ONS, Reach Global is one of 65 businesses 135WH UK Internet Search Engines26 JANUARY 2011 UK Internet Search Engines 136WH
[Graham Jones] networks specifically to harness advantageous proprietary Google technology into that network, which again would working in the information and communications sector be to the disadvantage of other companies. in Hyndburn, one of 2,000 in Lancashire and one of Although I am aware that competition law is 144,000 in the UK. predominantly dealt with on a European level, what Foundem is another British company that appears to legislative and non-legislative efforts do this Government have been blocked or sanctioned by Google in what intend to take to address the imbalance and protect appears to be a misuse of internet-filtered search results. cutting-edge British companies, such as the one that The company provides search database solutions to a the hon. Gentleman mentioned? I am sure that in his variety of British high street companies. It was leading constituency he has IT companies like Reach Global the way in supporting US and European Union that need our help. What action are the Government investigations into monopoly practices. In 2006, Foundem planning to take to ensure that a competitive yet innovative dropped to 144th in Google searches but remained market exists in the UK online industry, for the benefit first on Yahoo! and seventh on Ask. It is time to look of companies, customers and the economy? beyond network neutrality and consider search neutrality: At a time when other markets are struggling, the the principle that search engines should have no editorial online digital economy is growing and innovating. We policies other than that their results be comprehensive, must ensure that it remains open to fostering as many impartial and based solely on relevance. innovative competitors as possible and that British Without search neutrality rules to constrain Google’s companies and British interests are not compromised. competitive advantage, we may be heading toward a A recent study by the Boston Consulting Group bleakly uniform world of Google everything—Google found that the internet contributed an estimated £100 billion Travel, Google Finance, Google Insurance, Google Property, to the UK economy in 2009. To put the figure into Google Telecoms and, of course, Google Books. Some perspective, it contributed more than construction, transport will argue that Google is so innovative that we need not or utilities. To achieve its full potential, smaller businesses worry, but Google Maps, Google Earth, Google Groups, need to be given the opportunity to grow. The Government Google Docs, Google Analytics, Android and many need to ensure that we create the right conditions for a other Google products are all based on technology that new economic activity to flourish. Google has acquired rather than invented. In conclusion, it is in the interests of customers, It is not just about computers. Google’s Android business and securing the recovery of the UK economy smartphone operating system is gaining significant market that this issue be dealt with. share. The bundling of Google products with the operating system puts other companies that offer a free product, such as Skype, at risk of losing out to Google’s in-built 4.12 pm advantages. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a Mike Weatherley (Hove) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman delight to serve under your chairmanship again, Mrs Main. give way? I congratulate the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) on securing this debate. Initially, we were scratching Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. Is the hon. our heads when the title was first put in front of us. In a Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) prepared to sense, though, the debate is very much about Google give way? and its dominant position in search.
Graham Jones: I will. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn Mike Weatherley: I thank the hon. Gentleman and (Graham Jones) on securing this important debate. congratulate him on securing this debate. I have also Although I recognise his concerns, he has opened up a met representatives of Foundem. Does he agree that the wider issue, which involves competition, innovation and Google position is stifling British businesses? I congratulate the internet. I hope that the Minister will address the him on taking part in this debate, and particularly on issue of his Department’s responsibilities for securing championing the British aspect. competition on the internet to ensure that the UK can play a leading part in the innovation and economic Graham Jones: I welcome that intervention, which is benefits that will follow. helpful. That is quite true, and it is the thrust of the point that I am making. British companies are being Mr Vaizey: I will certainly try to do that. If I do not, I stifled. Moreover, the Treasury is losing out. In 2008-09, hope that she will intervene again to get me back on the The Guardian reported that Google, by locating its straight and narrow. Essentially, the hon. Gentleman companies outside the UK, avoided paying £450 million was talking about his concerns, and those of some of to the UK Treasury, and that was just in one year. his constituents, who appear to be running very interesting, Google is also taking advantage of the lower tax rates. go-ahead, high-tech companies—exactly the kind of It has leverage with large organisations and can employ companies that we want to encourage in this country. other commercial anti-competitive practices to the There are concerns that the growth and potential of disadvantage of British companies. I take on board the such companies are being stifled by the alleged dominance hon. Gentleman’s point; it is very relevant. of Google. Let me give an illustration of how pervasive I want to come on to the extension of Google into the Google is—“dominance” is a word that is pregnant mobile market. There is speculation that Google may with other meanings, so I will use “pervasive”. The hon. seek to acquire, or seek preferential contracts with, 3G Gentleman has cited the Boston Consulting Group 137WH UK Internet Search Engines26 JANUARY 2011 UK Internet Search Engines 138WH report, which pointed out the value of the e-commerce took a complaint to Europe to secure the probe. It cited market in the UK. My understanding is that that report allegations of manipulation of its search results, particularly was commissioned by Google, which just goes to show the unfavourable treatment of its unpaid and sponsored that almost everywhere we turn, there is a debate about results, and the preferential placement of Google’s own Google. services. The probe clearly demonstrates that regulators This is the second time in this Chamber that we have are alive to the possibility of dominant market players had a debate in which the focus has been on Google. abusing their positions. The last debate was about the breach of privacy that The hon. Gentleman also made the point that a was carried out by street cars that Google put on the number of companies in the UK—not least in his road to create Google Street View. Many hon. Members constituency—have concerns about Google’s alleged raised concerns about not only that specific breach but dominance. It is perfectly open to those companies to privacy on the internet. It is my responsibility, within ask the Office of Fair Trading to investigate, and I Government, to try to shape internet policy, so I will try understand that OFT considered the Google case in to address some of the issues that the hon. Member for 2009 and concluded that there was no evidence to Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) raised. suggest that UK consumers had suffered as a consequence of Google’s market share. In his evidence to the Culture, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Is the Minister Media and Sport Committee, John Fingleton, the director aware that a great many people with tremendous talent general of fair trading said: in my constituency have had to leave Northern Ireland “Where a company has achieved that position by superior to get jobs elsewhere? What steps does he intend to take innovation, foresight and better targeting of customers, we’re to ensure that that ability and experience can be utilised very wary of intervening…We see a lot of customers benefit from to its full potential here in the United Kingdom? What what’s happening in this marketplace from very high innovation—it’s does he intend to do to encourage and foster business? good for the British economy. We don’t want to send a negative signal about that.” Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. This is a very We must keep in mind that there are, according to short debate and I ask that interventions are kept brief. one source, 177 UK search engines servicing the UK market, including not only the organisation that the Mr Vaizey: I am grateful to you, Mrs Main, and for hon. Gentleman has mentioned, Reach Global, but the intervention. companies such as Mojeek, which is based in East Sussex and offers a What is the current position regarding search engines? It is absolutely true that the foremost popular internet “crawler based search engine providing unbiased, fast and relevant search results combined with a clean user interface and user search engines in this country are based in America. privacy conscious approach.” The top two have more than 90% of the market, and that situation is replicated pretty much across the globe, It is important to say that where allegations of abuse as evidenced by Google’s global market share of around are made, it is open to individual companies to approach 85%. On one level, the internet search engine market the Office of Fair Trading. We have a robust competition obviously operates in a free market environment, and in regime in this country and in Europe, and where there is the UK there are no barriers to a consumer’s ability to evidence of abuse, it is perfectly possible for the relevant switch to a preferred search engine or to stay loyal to competition authorities to investigate it. the one of their choice. Many search engines, including We are debating Google, but we could be debating the most popular, have local versions that search only equally interesting issues involving individual companies UK websites. on or engaged in the internet. For example, many people who use the internet do all their transactions Graham Jones: Will the Minister comment on the or engagements via Facebook. The hon. Member for bundling of browsers? Apple’s Safari has a direct link Hyndburn has mentioned Safari’s tie-up with Google, with Google, in that the Google search is in the taskbar, but again, if one has an iPhone or iPad, much of one’s and Microsoft’s browser has its own Bing search engine. engagement with the internet works through applications Will the Minister admit that such bundling practice is vetted and sold by Apple. We are, to a certain extent, anti-competitive and does not create an open and level coming to a point in the development of the internet playing field with fair competition? where consumers may choose to stay with one or two trusted sites or companies, be it Apple, Facebook, Google Mr Vaizey: It is open to the consumer to choose the or a particular internet service provider, as well as using product that best suits them, but it is also open to the open internet where people search and find information. individual companies to partner with whichever companies It is also worth making the point that many ISPs in they choose. Consumers want a service that offers good this country are British-based. One can access the internet performance and enables them to find what they want through BT or Virgin Media. When raising concerns quickly and easily. Google has entered a market and about the dominance of Google, we should also celebrate gained market share by giving consumers what they the fact that a British company such as BT, which is at want. the heart of our tech industry, is a global company with The hon. Gentleman is obviously not speaking in a a presence in 170 nations around the world. vacuum, and he referred in his speech to the investigation On general internet policy, the hon. Member for that is being undertaken into Google. All businesses Newcastle upon Tyne Central was probably inviting me operating in Europe have to comply with competition to talk a bit about net neutrality, among many other law, and the EU is carrying out an anti-trust probe into things that take my interest. I am conducting a number the alleged abuses by Google. He has mentioned the of round tables and much policy development work on case of Foundem, which was one of the companies that a host of different issues. The first is illegal piracy and 139WH UK Internet Search Engines26 JANUARY 2011 UK Internet Search Engines 140WH
[Mr Vaizey] comments—and invited me by implication to talk about how we plan to ensure that our creative industries in the unauthorised downloading of music and film. I am this country continue to flourish. In that respect, the seeking to implement the Digital Economy Act 2010, hon. Member for Hyndburn and, indeed, his constituents, which will obviously affect the development of the whose letter I was fortunate enough to see a copy of, are internet. There is also the protection of children from right to point out that high-tech innovation takes place inappropriate content. Again, I am seeking a self-regulatory not only within the M25, but all over the country. The solution from ISPs in order to give consumers the north-west and Northern Ireland are two particular opportunity to choose to protect their children from areas where there is a lot of expertise and skill. Particularly inappropriate content. in the north-west, the development of Salford and Another issue on which I have spoken and which has MediaCityUK will have a significant impact on the produced an interesting debate is net neutrality, on growth of creative industries. The creation of Creative which I will briefly set out the Government’s position. England, with one hub in Manchester, is a source of The term “net neutrality” is difficult, because it means Government support for the creative industries in general, different things to different people. Interestingly, my and I hope that that organisation will have an impact. speech on the subject was called, “The open internet”, In general, we want to create new businesses to try to but it was interpreted in entirely the opposite way. Let keep our young talent here. We want to lower the me be clear that we are absolutely committed to an regulatory barriers that have a huge impact on the open internet. That is relevant to the constituents of the sector, including employment and environmental laws, hon. Member for Hyndburn, because we want small, and take account of the cumulative impact of existing high-tech and internet companies to have an opportunity and potential regulation. We want to look at the to reach consumers without being unfairly discriminated international regulatory regime and how it should adapt against. to the rise of the internet and the challenges and The internet has developed at a huge pace and in opportunities that it presents. directions that were impossible to predict, so we are The constituents of the hon. Member for Hyndburn wary about introducing legislation that would dictate mentioned the Hargreaves review, which will look at the how it might evolve. In my opinion, the internet has intellectual property system and consider how it can done very well without over-regulation, and I want such possibly be reformed to overcome barriers to growth innovation to continue. Nevertheless, the improved and enable business models to develop that are fitted for transparency requirements provided by recent revisions the digital age. We want to look at the application of the of the electronic communications framework, along competition regime and consider how it should be best with a competitive marketplace and the ability to switch structured, empowered and guided to deliver a competitive easily between providers, should mean that regulation and thriving UK media system. We also want to look at in that area is unnecessary. We want to give the market the removal of blockages in the skills system, which the opportunity to self-regulate, which is important, but mean the needs of employers in the sector are not fully Ofcom will monitor closely how the market develops. If met. it develops in an anti-competitive way, Ofcom will have the appropriate powers to intervene. Graham Jones: On the correspondence that he has received from Reach Global, will he accept my offer to Graham Jones: Does the Minister agree that the come to Church to have a look at that company? I examples I quoted about Google’s rise show that that would appreciate that. has taken place at the other’s cost and that other companies Mr Vaizey: Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman has asked have fallen? What has happened has been to the me twice now, and the second time he did so particularly disadvantage of UK firms in an anti-competitive way. nicely.It goes without saying that I am delighted, honoured and flattered to be asked to visit that company in the Mr Vaizey: That is a difficult question to answer. hon. Gentleman’s constituency and see the work that it First, Google operates in an competitive environment, is doing, which has impressed him so much. where there will be winners and losers. As UK citizens, Those are some of the issues that we are considering we may be patriotic enough to have wished that it was a under the creative industries growth review. Let me sum UK search engine that had won that particular battle, up briefly. First, I absolutely understand the hon. but the fact is that it was Google. My second point is Gentleman’s concerns about Google. The EU anti-trust that it is an open internet, and it is open to any consumer investigation reflects the widespread concerns, although to use any search engine that they choose. Thirdly, Google operates in a competitive market and the Office although I am not here as an advocate for Google, it is of Fair Trading investigated the issue about 18 months probably worth pointing out that, as a search engine, ago. Secondly, I passionately believe that we need an Google has provided huge opportunities to UK open internet that is not overly regulated and that companies—not just high-tech companies, but retailers allows innovation and competition to develop. Thirdly, and small businesses—who have the opportunity to we are focused on our creative industries growth review, reach a global audience. which we hope will produce a strategy for growth that The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has will help young people in Northern Ireland, in the mentioned the talent and ability of young people north-west and in the north-east, and that will help this in Northern Ireland—I completely concur with his country’s huge creative advantages. 141WH 26 JANUARY 2011 Holiday Accommodation 142WH
Holiday Accommodation climate improves, the 50% discount can be reinstated, because such financial support would encourage chalet owners to upgrade their properties. 4.30 pm In addition to support, holiday park owners also Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): want more flexibility in the length of time that they are I want to begin by saying how grateful I am to Mr Speaker allowed to stay open. I know that Swale borough council for allocating time for this debate, which I will use to is actively reviewing whether the current eight-month address two connected issues that I am sure are important occupancy period, which has been imposed on many not only to my constituency of Sittingbourne and Sheppey holiday parks, can be extended to 10 months. I commend but to a number of other constituencies with similar my colleagues on the council for undertaking that review, demographics. The first issue relates to how we provide because the extra two months of occupation could development land for much-needed affordable homes, make a real difference to the viability not only of the particularly in rural areas, while at the same time protecting holiday parks themselves but of the many local businesses what remains of our green spaces. The second issue is that rely on holidaymakers for their trade. how we can help to revive the holiday homes industry on the Isle of Sheppey to reinvigorate the local economy, I am realistic enough to know that the holiday industry while at the same time bringing the current stock of on Sheppey will never return to its 1950s heyday, because holiday homes closer in line with actual need. we live in a different world. People can now have a two-week holiday in Greece or Turkey for the same I want to deal with the latter issue first. There are price as a week in Britain. Even the Isle of Sheppey more than 7,000 holiday homes in my constituency, cannot guarantee that the sun will shine during a British mainly mobile homes and chalets. Much of that summer. In Sittingbourne and Sheppey, we must recognise accommodation is of a high standard, although very that we no longer need 7,000 holiday homes to cater for little of it is currently suitable for occupation all year the number of holidaymakers whom we can expect to round. However, some of the accommodation in my attract. constituency, particularly some of the chalets, is of a very poor standard and is simply not fit for use in the That leads me back to my first issue, which is how we 21st century, even for a one or two-week stay. can provide development land for much-needed affordable I am keen to see a revival in the holiday industry on homes, particularly in rural areas, while at the same Sheppey. There is much to commend the island as a time protecting what remains of our green spaces. We holiday destination. It is steeped in history, with one of can go some way towards answering that question by the oldest churches in the country and an abbey that bringing our holiday-home stock more in line with can be traced back to the birth of Christianity. There is current needs and allowing some development on the also the recently restored Shurland hall. It was built by land that is released. Sir Thomas Cheyne, and it was where Henry VIII The vast majority of our excess capacity holiday dallied with Anne Boleyn during their ill-fated marriage. homes are located in rural areas. Subject to local approval, In addition, Sheppey has a rich naval heritage and is which is vital, some of the poorest quality chalets could also the birthplace of British aviation. Furthermore, the be redeveloped to provide good quality, affordable, island has some fantastic natural habitats, including all-year-round accommodation, such as the bungalows the Elmley bird sanctuary, which forms part of one of found on the Parklands Village development in my own the most important wetlands in the United Kingdom. constituency. Sheppey is easy to get to, with good road and rail links, and it is close to London, Canterbury and Dover. The irony is that although the Parklands Village homes were built to full building regulations and energy I make no apology for sounding like a travel agent, efficiency standards, the home owners can only live Mrs Main. I am proud of Sheppey, and I want to there for 10 months of the year and have to find encourage more visitors to the island, so that they can temporary accommodation for the other two months. share its riches. To cater for those tourists, we need to As I have said before in the House, such a situation is maintain a stock of good-quality holiday homes. However, both perverse and ludicrous. Of course, any proposed the holiday industry in my constituency needs support development would be subject to normal planning and and flexibility, if it is to act as the catalyst to reinvigorate building regulations, which would include consideration the economy of Sheppey, particularly on the eastern of the highways implications and a requirement to end of the island, which has experienced a steady decline provide the necessary infrastructure to support such in fortunes during the past 30 or 40 years. At this point, development. I declare an interest, because eastern Sheppey is the area where I cut my political teeth, representing its The problem is that some local planning authorities people on both Swale borough council and Kent county are loth to grant planning permission for the development council. of all-year-round housing on holiday sites, insisting that the land on which parks that close down are The support for the island’s holiday industry must located must revert to rural status. A solution would be come from local and national Government. Nationally, for the Government to classify as brownfield land I hope that the Government will introduce regeneration redundant, out-of-use holiday home parks. measures to help the coastal communities on Sheppey, which contain some of the most deprived wards in the Five identifiers are used to define brownfield land: country. Locally, we are looking for support from Swale previously owned land which is now vacant; land that borough council, which until four years ago offered a has vacant buildings; land and buildings that are derelict; 50% council tax discount to the owners of second other previously developed land or buildings that are homes or holiday chalets. That discount has dropped to currently in use but that have been allocated for development just 10%, and I hope that in time, as the economic in the adopted plan or that have planning permission 143WH Holiday Accommodation26 JANUARY 2011 Holiday Accommodation 144WH
[Gordon Henderson] household formations is approximately twice that at which new homes are being provided, and that is clearly for housing; and other previously developed land or challenging for us. There is an urgent need for low-cost, buildings, where it is known that there is potential for affordable homes for sale and for rent. The Government’s development. comprehensive spending review announced proposals Holiday home parks might be included in any one of to introduce a social and affordable housing programme those categories. However, explicitly including holiday and, by tackling the overall, macro-economic situation, park homes as a sixth identifier would leave planning the Government are strongly committed to creating an officers with absolutely no room for doubt. Such a environment in which the private sector can flourish as policy would not solve the housing problem that we well. We want greater stability in the housing market inherited from the previous Government, but it might and house price rises to be more in line with earnings go some way to providing more affordable homes and growth. perhaps ensure that young people in my constituency We have put in place a number of policies that are can afford to clamber on to the first rung of the housing explicitly designed to generate that investment. The new ladder. homes bonus scheme will be a powerful and simple incentive for local authorities and communities to increase 4.38 pm their aspirations for housing growth. I was interested in what my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for and Sheppey had to say about the council tax discounts Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): that have been applied on Sheppey. That is not, of It is a pleasure to serve under you, Mrs Main. I congratulate course, a direct generator of new investment, but I want my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and to assure him that the level of discount is a matter for Sheppey (Gordon Henderson) on bringing to the Chamber the borough council to determine, and that it is not his understandable concerns on two linked issues. I will prescribed by this House. do my best to give him some comfort on at least part of what he has to say. I am not sure whether this is an My hon. Friend asked about a number of other interest that I need to declare, but shortly before he was things relating to the current management of the holiday born, I had a holiday on Sheppey. I have been there, and home stock on the island. He drew attention to the fact I expect that somebody bought me the T-shirt. that the borough council is considering whether to change the planning conditions on the requirement of Gordon Henderson: Since I am 63 tomorrow, I suspect residence from eight to 10 months a year. That is a that that is not quite true. matter for the planning authority to decide, and it has the flexibility to do that. Again, it is not subject to Andrew Stunell: I am sure that we both wish that that national rules and restrictions in so doing. were the case. I have a recollection of the island and its unique character. I have not had the opportunity to go Simon Hart (Carmarthen Westand South Pembrokeshire) back, which I am sure will upset my hon. Friend. As he (Con): May I add to the various comments made by my has said, times have moved on and he has painted an hon. Friends? I represent an area of south-west Wales eloquent picture of the challenges faced by Swale borough that is heavily dependent on the holiday industry, and I council and locally elected representatives, as well as the wonder whether we are missing something. Will the challenges that he faces as the Member of Parliament. Minister comment on the report of the Affordable Rural Housing Commission, which the previous Government, Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): I congratulate my to their credit, put in place? It made the point that other hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey hon. Members have made about the flexibility of planners (Gordon Henderson) on securing this debate and wish and how some of them might not be as flexible as they him many happy returns for tomorrow. Important points could be— have been made not only about the importance of affordable housing, but about protecting the green belt. Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. Interventions The Minister has mentioned the issue of other authorities. should be brief, particularly in short debates. I ask the The issue with affordable housing in my area of York is Minister to respond. very similar to that faced by my hon. Friend. The real problem is that we are not getting development going, Simon Hart: I apologise, Mrs Main. and it is the affordable housing thresholds, which are being imposed through the planning process, that are Andrew Stunell: Thank you, Mrs Main. I understand causing developers not to bring land forward. A 50% the points that are being made and I hope that my hon. affordable housing threshold means that 50% of nothing Friend will get some comfort when I address the changes is nothing. Does the Minister think that reducing the to the planning system, which are currently being discussed threshold might lead to more affordable housing throughout by the Committee that is considering the Localism Bill. the country? As I was saying, the borough council has the flexibility to decide what planning conditions it imposes on both Andrew Stunell: I thank my hon. Friend for his existing and projected new developments. Such flexibility intervention and I will do my best to give him some already exists in the current planning regime. I will say assurance, but I will come to that in a moment. in a moment how I believe the measures that we have I want to start with the wider context. We the announced in the Localism Bill—should they find favour Government are certainly committed to a major upswing with the House—will increase the flexibility of local in housing to meet Britain’s housing needs. I think that planning authorities to deliver what my hon. Friends, it is well understood in the Chamber that the level of now numbering three in this debate, are really asking for. 145WH Holiday Accommodation26 JANUARY 2011 Holiday Accommodation 146WH
We do not consider that holiday caravans are the I commend the provision of neighbourhood plans in right way to increase the provision of low-cost housing, the Localism Bill as a way forward for the island and and I do not think that my hon. Friend the Member for for all the different communities in my hon. Friend’s Sittingbourne and Sheppey was advocating that. We constituency. Of course they cannot discount the issues would certainly appreciate any planning authority that of traffic, they must take account of some of the took the view that the accommodation as it is at the broader strategic issues, and there will still be the national moment would not be suitable for that use. In deciding planning framework, which will provide overall guidance whether an area should be developed or redeveloped for in relation to the country as a whole. None the less, housing, any planning authority would want to take local communities will have a far greater capacity to into account not just the site itself, but, as my hon. decide what factors are relevant when considering Friend said, issues relating to infrastructure, services, applications and what factors should be discounted. flooding and so on. All such matters should be considered The sixth identifier that my hon. Friend talked about by any planning authority when looking at the suitability will rapidly become redundant because the neighbourhood of a site. They would have an encouragement via the plan will have supremacy—if I may use that phraseology. new homes bonus to do so, which would bring them the I believe that the changes to the planning process that equivalent of six times the annual council tax for that we are initiating will provide him with the capacity to property as an un-ring-fenced, upfront payment—as a tell his constituents that the prosperous, regenerated reward or a bonus for increasing their housing stock. and renewed island that they—and he—want to see can My hon. Friend said that the current planning indeed come to pass. frameworks make it difficult for applications on surplus The message that I have delivered for the Isle of holiday sites to succeed. There is definitely good news Sheppey is, I believe, just as relevant for York, but I have available in the planning system that we have set out in to say to my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen the Localism Bill. We are taking away the top-down West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) that he prescription of what can and cannot be done. It will will have to have discussions with colleagues in the now be the case that if the Isle of Sheppey, or some part Welsh Assembly. The powers in the Localism Bill will be of the Isle of Sheppey, decided that it was appropriate made available to the Welsh Assembly through provisions for that community to have its own neighbourhood in the Bill, and the Assembly may, if it chooses, adopt plan, it would be free to develop such a plan and reach them and then adapt them to the circumstances in such views as it saw fit about how the development Wales. should proceed. Although that would have to be within I think that I have addressed all the key points made the constraints of the borough local plan, it would not by my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and be constrained by huge, thick volumes of national Sheppey, but if he feels that I have not, I will be ready to guidance. take an intervention. I hope that it is felt that I have My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for given him a helpful answer, which is what was intended. Communities and Local Government made the point to the House when introducing the Localism Bill that the Gordon Henderson: I thank the Minister for his full current planning guidance exceeds in number of words response. the combined works of Shakespeare. That is clearly a Question put and agreed to. ridiculous amount for any planning authority to take account of and it unduly and unreasonably restricts the 4.51 pm capacity of local communities to determine their own fate. Sitting adjourned.
9WS Written Ministerial Statements26 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS
The Commission has met with various interested Written Ministerial parties, including the Equitable Members Action Group and Equitable Life, as well as receiving representations Statements from a wide range of individual policyholders. I would like to thank Brian Pomeroy, John Howard and John Tattersall for all their hard work on this issue. Wednesday 26 January 2011 They have taken the time and care to find out policyholders’ concerns and have used this knowledge to help form their very useful advice. The work that the Commission has carried out helps bring us a step closer to resolving TREASURY this issue. Today, I am publishing the Commission’s advice and depositing a copy in the Library of the House. The Mortgage Market (Consumer Protection) Commission has recommended the following for the allocation of funds: a pro rata allocation of the available funds, in proportion to The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark the size of relative losses suffered. This equates to 22.4% of Hoban): Today the Government have announced a package each policyholder’s relative losses; of measures intended to enhance consumer protection a single policyholder view, wherever practicable, offsetting in the mortgage market. These measures will: relative gains against relative losses where policyholders have transfer the regulation of new and existing second-charge multiple policies; and residential mortgages from the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) a de minimis amount, in the region of £10, beneath which to the Financial Services Authority (FSA); payments should not be made. This reflects the Commission’s ensure consumer protections are maintained when a mortgage view that administering very small payments below this sum book is sold by a mortgage lender to an unregulated firm; would be disproportionate to the administrative costs of and making them while being of negligible significance to recipients. extend the current regulation of the sale and rent back The Commission recommends that the following groups market to all providers. be prioritised for payment, subject to the practical An additional measure relating to a devolved matter— constraints laid out in the Commission’s advice: providing an exemption from FSA regulation for registered housing associations in Northern Ireland—is also included the oldest policyholders, as they are least able to wait for payment and are also least likely to be in a position to in the package. mitigate the effects of a delay; and This package is part of the Government’s wider the estates of deceased policyholders and, as far as possible, programme to reform financial regulation, to improve the estates of those who die, before receiving a payment, consumer protection and strengthen financial stability. in the next three years. It will simplify the mortgage regulation landscape by The Government accept the principles recommended making the FSA responsible for all residential mortgages. by the Commission. Our task now is to work out how The statutory instruments will be published later in best those principles can be applied in practice to groups 2011. In advance of this, the Government expect the of policyholders while allowing us to begin making FSA to begin work immediately to implement these payments as soon as possible. measures. The Government will publish a detailed scheme design document that includes the practical application and deliveryimplicationsof theCommission’srecommendations. I will make this available for parliamentary scrutiny in Independent Commission on Equitable Life the spring. Payments (Report)
The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Hoban): On 22 July 2010, I announced that the Government DEFENCE would establish the Independent Commission on Equitable Life Payments. This was in line with the Government’s Single Source Pricing Regulations pledge to “implement the Parliamentary and Health Ombudsman’s recommendation to make fair and transparent payments to Equitable Life policy holders, through an independent payment scheme, for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence their relative loss as a consequence of regulatory failure”. (Peter Luff): I am today announcing that Lord Currie Following the spending review, the Commission was of Marylebone is to chair an independent review of the asked to carry out two tasks. The first was to advise on regulations used by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) the fair allocation of funds totalling £775 million among when pricing work to be procured under single source all policyholders, with the exception of with-profits conditions without reference to competition. The existing annuitants (WPAs) and their estates. We had already framework is described by the Government Profit Formula announced that there should be no means-testing and and Associated Arrangements (GPFAA)—the so-called that the estates of deceased policyholders should receive “Yellow Book”—of which MOD is the sole user. payments. The second was to advise on any groups or The GPFAA stems from an agreement between HM classes of policyholders that should be paid as a priority Treasury and the Confederation of British Industry in with regard to the timing of payments, again with the 1968. Operational aspects have been reviewed since that exception of WPAs and their estates. time but successive Governments have left the underlying 11WS Written Ministerial Statements26 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS principles in place. Getting single source pricing right is She will also work closely with the Governor of of great significance to all stakeholders, not least taxpayers: Gibraltar, whose constitutional responsibilities include MOD typically places annually around 40% by value of defence and internal security and external affairs. work on this basis. The special representative may also undertake additional The formula sets out profit rates allowed as addition defence tasks by agreement with the Ministry of Defence. to costs, as recommended by the Review Board for The hon. Lady’s has agreed that she will resign as Government Contracts; my predecessor announced chair of the all-party parliamentary Gibraltar group. acceptance of the board’s last report to Parliament on 30 March 2010, Official Report, columns 97-98WS. The GPFAAalso includes Government accounting conventions setting out what costs are allowed when pricing single ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS source work. This review implies no criticism of the Review Board for Government Contracts, which is a valued part of Independent Review of the Science Advisory the existing framework and whose remit has been to Council to DEFRA maintain the profit formula and examine only those issues set before it by MOD and industry. The defence sector has evolved beyond recognition The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and since the inception of the 1968 agreement. At that time, Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): I wish to update labour constituted over three quarters of costs in the the House on developments related to the Science Advisory defence sector. Now it is less than one quarter. The Council (SAC) to DEFRA. Government owned many more of the assets than we I am pleased to announce a new model for the SAC do now. Furthermore, the sector is facing an era of following the outcome of the review of all arm’s length consolidation and restructuring. The Government inherited bodies, and a separate and independent review of the a fiscal situation that makes it more important than SAC. ever that industry is incentivised to reduce costs through the use of modern, fit-for-purpose commercial The ALB review sought to ensure better co-ordination arrangements (including for small and medium-sized between science advisory bodies in DEFRA. As part of enterprises), additionally making UK industry more this, the Department reviewed the role and functions competitive on the world market. Therefore, I believe of its 18 scientific and technical advisory bodies. On the time is right to carry out this review and have asked 14 October 2010 it was announced that the majority of that an MOD team, working with the CBI, be established the advisory bodies will become expert committees. to support Lord Currie’s investigation. They will continue to provide independent advice, but the change will allow for greater co-ordination as the Lord Currie will be consulting widely with other scientific expert committees will work more closely with stakeholders and will present his initial recommendations the Science Advisory Council and DEFRA’Schief scientific to me by July 2011, after which there will be further adviser. consultation with stakeholders to agree an implementation plan, at which time I will report back to the House. In DEFRA’S Science Advisory Council is to be retained parallel, MOD has requested that the Review Board for as an NDPB, and will support the CSA in oversight of Government Contracts continue its work to maintain all relevant DEFRA scientific committees. It will continue the existing processes through completion of its 2011 to provide independent advice and challenge to the annual review of the profit formula, due to conclude in chief scientific adviser and Ministers on the science April 2011, and thereafter until the outcome of this underpinning a range of DEFRA policies review is known and a way forward agreed. The independent review of the SAC, led by Professor Charles Godfray and commissioned by DEFRA’S chief scientist, Professor Bob Watson, contained 12 major recommendations. Professor Watson and I are content to accept these recommendations which include: that the SAC be reconstituted as a leaner body of around six Special Representative to Gibraltar people plus an external chair; the need to articulate more clearly the role of the SAC and how it adds value to the Department’s use of science and The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): I evidence; am pleased to announce today the appointment of the the need to provide challenge and scrutiny to other bodies hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) as special providing science advice to DEFRA. representative to Gibraltar for defence. A new model for the Science Advisory Council will The strategic defence and security review reaffirmed be established in line with the independent review’s the importance of the permanent joint operating base recommendations. With these recommendations in mind, in Gibraltar, which provides the armed forces with the new terms of reference and a revised code of practice ability to deploy force around the world and respond to for members will be raised. The recruitment of new changing strategic circumstances. members will commence in February 2011, with the The hon. Lady’s role as special representative will be first SAC meeting scheduled for September 2011. to work with the Government of Gibraltar, the Ministry The SAC will support the CSA by independently of Defence and Commander British Forces Gibraltar assuring and challenging the evidence underpinning on a range of issues connected with the continued DEFRA policies and ensuring that the evidence programme presence of the permanent joint operating base. meets DEFRA’S needs. 13WS Written Ministerial Statements26 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS
The DEFRA CSA will have oversight of, and offer We are also providing an extra £10 million per annum support to, all DEFRA scientific expert committees, for new services in markets that we and the BBC World and the new SAC will support the CSA in this role. This Service have identified as priorities. These proposals approach will ensure that the Department achieves a include TV programming in Urdu, in sub-Saharan Africa greater and more co-ordinated level of evidence assurance. and in Hindi to be provided to local partners. We have Separately, DEFRA are taking forward plans to replace also guaranteed the capital for the move of the World many of its advisory NDPBs with expert committees. Service to their new offices in West One. Further announcements will be made in due course. These savings, together with the other changes the BBC World Service have announced today, should enable the World Service to prioritise their efforts away from shrinking markets and platforms (where there are developing FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE local broadcasters, or short-wave audiences are falling) to growing markets. BBC World Service The BBC World Service has an unparalleled international reputation. This Government are committed to supporting the BBC World Service, and ensuring it continues to The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth retain its global influence and reach in a rapidly changing Affairs (Mr William Hague): I can inform the House world. that I have reached agreement with the BBC Trust on the strategic priorities for the BBC World Service for the period 2011-14. We have been engaged in close discussion with the BBC in the period leading up to and following the 2010 spending review (SR10). HOME DEPARTMENT As the House is aware, the context for the spending review was the fiscal legacy left by the previous Administration. We agreed total expenditure limits of Intercept as Evidence £253 million/£242 million/£238 million over the first three years of the SR10 period. This represents a 16% cut in real terms. The FCO has provided a settlement The Secretary of State for the Home Department that keeps the BBCWS’ proportion of the FCO family’s (Mrs Theresa May): The lawful interception of overall budget at or above its 2007-8 level through to communications is a vital tool for tackling the threat 2013-14. posed by terrorism and other serious crime. The coalition Government are committed to building on this by seeking This settlement required difficult decisions to be made, to find a practical way to allow the use of intercept and we agreed with the BBC that the overall objective evidence in court. was to ensure the World Service should remain an articulate and powerful voice for Britain in the world, The issues are complex. Because of this a first step and a trusted provider of impartial and independent has been to review previous analysis, including that in news. the Privy Council review (Cm 7324) and in “Intercept as Evidence a Report” (Cm 7760). Having done so, the Under the terms of the broadcasting agreement between Government are now in a position to set out next steps. the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and the BBC World Service, no foreign language services can be As recognised in the Privy Council review the state opened or closed without my written authority. As part has an overriding duty to protect the public, including of the BBC World Service’s strategy, I have therefore from threats such as international terrorism and serious approved the BBC Trust’s proposal to close five language organised crime. Bringing prosecutions against and securing services: Albanian, Macedonian, Serbian, Portuguese convictions of offenders is an important means of doing for Africa and English for the Caribbean. I have today so. Equally, the effective use of intercept as intelligence placed in the Libraries of both Houses copies of my already makes a vital contribution to public protection correspondence with Sir Michael Lyons, Chairman of and to national security more widely. the BBC Trust, confirming this. Some 3.5 million people Therefore, the programme of work to be undertaken currently listen to the services that will be closed. The will focus on assessing the likely balance of advantage, total World Service audience is 180 million. cost and risk of a legally viable model for use of The BBC World Service have also made strenuous intercept as evidence compared to the present approach. efforts to find efficiency savings and drive down non- The intention is to provide a report back to Parliament editorial costs, and will also be able to make savings during the summer. from their move to Broadcasting House in 2012. Recent work on intercept as evidence has benefited The BBC World Service asked for funds to help them significantly from the experience of the Advisory Group with the additional contribution necessary for the deficit of Privy Counsellors, comprising the right hon. Sir John in the BBC pension funds. In the settlement, the Foreign Chilcot, the right hon. and noble Lord Archer of Sandwell, and Commonwealth Office were able to provide them my noble Friend, the right hon. Lord Howard of Lympne with £13 million per annum to help them with these and the right hon. Sir Alan Beith MP.I am pleased to be extra costs. I have also exceptionally agreed that if the able to confirm that the members of the advisory group additional contributions are less than the £13 million have, at my request and that of the Prime Minister and which the World Service have estimated, then the World Deputy Prime Minister, agreed to continue to provide Service can use the remaining funds for other purposes. assistance and oversight.
263W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 264W
Mike Penning: It is an important principle that, in Written Answers to certain circumstances, individuals and public authorities are able to consult in confidence. The Department for Questions Transport, in common with all other Government Departments, does not disclose the advice it receives about legislation. Wednesday 26 January 2011
Train Operating Companies: Waste Disposal
TRANSPORT Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will review the provision which permits Railways: Bexley train operating companies to operate on passenger rail services sanitary facilities which discharge waste directly Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport onto tracks. [36157] what steps he is taking to help reduce overcrowding on commuter rail services serving Bexley. [36204] Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport would like to see all passenger trains fitted with retention toilet Mrs Villiers: Under the terms of their franchise systems, an aspiration that is fully supported by the agreement, Southeastern is required to manage their wider rail industry. However, this will take time to rolling stock resources to ensure there is sufficient capacity deliver given its reliance on the introduction of new on each rail service to minimise overcrowding. trains, which are all fitted with retention toilets, and the Following the introduction of the December 2009 extent to which such systems can be retrofitted to older timetable, Southeastern carried out a survey of the fleets. loadings of services. This resulted in Southeastern The Department is working with train operators, strengthening a number of services operating to Bexley Network Rail and rolling stock leasing companies to from the May 2010 timetable change date. identify affordable opportunities to install toilet retention Network Rail is in the course of carrying out an systems and other mitigations in older fleets. assessment of the power supply to determine what work needs to be done to enable longer trains to run on commuter routes in the Southeastern suburban area in Trust Ports the future. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Roads: Management Transport (1) what steps he is able to take in consequence of an assessment that a trust port has lost the confidence Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport of its stakeholders; [35508] (1) what plans he has to encourage local authorities to (2) whether he has reviewed the quality of stakeholder develop highways asset management plans; [35533] engagement required of trust ports; [35518] (2) how many local authorities have a highways asset (3) whether he has made an assessment of the management plan. [35700] confidence stakeholders have in each trust port. [35519] Norman Baker: In England development of highways asset management plans are a matter for each local Mike Penning: The Department for Transport’s guidance highway authority. to the sector (Modernising Trust Ports, second edition) makes clear that trust ports should always deal with The Department for Transport recognises the value their stakeholders in an accountable manner. Trust of good asset management in delivering effective and ports are asked to report annually on their compliance efficient highway services to meet local needs. The with the guidance, and where they have not been able to Department will therefore continue to work closely comply, explain their reasons. In the normal course of with the UK Roads Liaison Group, Chartered Institute business, Ministers and officials from the Department of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA), Association meet with both trust port managers and stakeholders. of Directors of Environment, Economy, Planning and Transport (ADEPT) and others to help spread best I am satisfied that the guidance, which represents a practice in highways asset management, including through code of good practice, provides clear direction to the the highways maintenance efficiency programme announced sector as well as to stakeholders seeking recourse. as part of the spending review. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Shipping: Pilots Transport what his policy is on the criteria to apply to a community bid for a trust port supported by relevant Andrew Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for stakeholders. [35510] Transport pursuant to the answer of 10 January 2011, Official Report, column 29W, on shipping, if he will Mike Penning: The Department for Transport produced publish the advice he received on section 32(1) of the a guidance note concerning the procedure for the sale of Pilotage Act 1987 in relation to the regulation of trust ports in January 2010 which remains in force. A standards of qualifications for statutory pilots. [35683] copy of the guidance is in the Library of the House. 265W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 266W
Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Dwyfor Meirionnydd Transport whether he has received any request or proposal from a trust port to seek powers through a Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales harbour revision order to modify the terms of the Ports what plans she has to visit Dwyfor Meirionnydd Act 1991 for the purposes of relinquishing public constituency on official business in the next six months. corporation status. [35517] [35571]
Mike Penning: In 2004, six of the major trust ports in Mrs Gillan: I refer the hon. Gentleman to my answer England and Wales applied to the Secretary of State to to him on 25 January 2011, Official Report, column modify their status through harbour revision orders 194W. which, among other things, would disapply the Secretary of State’s power under the Ports Act 1991 to require Wales compulsory privatisation. These applications for orders were all subject to objections and, except for the one Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales that has since been withdrawn, under S.I. 2010 No. 674 how many official engagements she undertook in Wales they now fall to the Marine Management Organisation in (a) October, (b) November and (c) December to determine within the procedures set out in the Harbours 2010. [35610] Act 1964 as amended by the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009, and with regard to any relevant policy guidance Mrs Gillan: I carried out 10 official engagements in from the Department for Transport. Wales between October and December 2010. Trust Ports: Privatisation INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE Transport what his policy is on issuing guidance to (a) the Dover Harbour Board and (b) other trust ports on Internet proposals for restructuring and privatisation under the provisions of the Ports Act 1991. [35344] Mr Jenkin: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Mike Penning: I refer the hon. Member to my answer Parliamentary Standards Authority, how much has been given to the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) paid by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority of 16 September 2010, Official Report, column 1250W. to hon. Members for the provision of website services in the current financial year to date; and in respect of how many hon. Members such payments have been made. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE [35148] Democratic Republic of Congo: Uranium Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Eric Joyce: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated January 2011: on the (a) security of and (b) likely effect on nuclear As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards disarmament of a consignment of partially-enriched Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how much has been paid by the Independent uranium abandoned in Kinshasa in the Democratic Parliamentary Standards Authority to hon. Members for the Republic of Congo. [35730] provision of website services in the current financial year to date; and in respect of how many hon. Members such payments have Mr Bellingham: We are aware of recent reports regarding been made. the security of nuclear materials, including in the November We have paid a total of £110,672.50 to Members for the 2010 UN Group of Experts report. We take such reports provision of website services in this financial year and such of potential proliferation of nuclear materials seriously, payments have been made to 149 Members. and work with international partners to address such threats. Telephone Services Mrs Main: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent WALES Parliamentary Standards Authority, what consultation was conducted by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Departmental Procurement Authority (IPSA) prior to the recent reduction in the opening hours of the IPSA telephone enquiry service. Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales [35447] what single tender contracts her Department has awarded since her appointment; and what the monetary value is Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls of each contract above the EU public procurement within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary threshold. [36194] Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated January 2011: Mr David Jones: The Wales Office has issued one As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards single tender contract since 12 May 2010. It did not Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary exceed the EU public procurement threshold. Question asking what consultation was conducted by the Independent 267W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 268W
Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) prior to the reduction The Attorney-General: The information requested is in the opening hours of the IPSA telephone enquiry service. detailed as follows: 35447 Many MPs had said to us that they felt that they had to wait The Attorney-General’s Office (AGO) does not have too long when calling our information line. In the light of this a policy on the space provided per employee however feedback, we decided to switch to a different model, where our use of space is kept under review. As a result the office is phone lines are open for a shorter period but they are staffed now shared with the Office for Budget Responsibility. more intensively during that period. AGO does not operate a hot desking policy and The approach we have taken reflects both the feedback we have received from MPs themselves but also our own data, which provides one desk per employee. shows that more MPs and their staff choose to call us in the The average space per employee is 17.25m2. This afternoon. includes common areas such as reception and hallways The outcome of this approach has been a marked improvement and unusable office space such as plant rooms in the in the service we provide to MPs and their staff. Previously, we basement. AGO follows the Treasury Solicitor’s Department were answering around 50 per cent of calls in 60 seconds. In the fortnight since we introduced the new operating hours, call volumes (TSoL) flexible working policy which includes home have remained steady—but we are now answering around 98 per working. cent of calls within 60 seconds. TSoL policy is to make the most cost effective use of accommodation by operating flexible working Mrs Main: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, arrangements, including providing nine desks for every representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent 10 employees in their main location. In January 2011 in Parliamentary Standards Authority, what discussions their main location the average number of employees he had with representatives of the Independent per desk is 1.09 and the space provided on average per Parliamentary Standards Authority on the recent reduction employee is 8.79m2. in the opening hours of its telephone enquiry service. [35448] The Treasury Solicitor’s Department does provide for limited home working, subject to the needs of the Mr Charles Walker: I have had no discussions with business and with the prior agreement of line managers. representatives of the IPSA on the reduction in the The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has targets to opening hours of the telephone enquiry service, which reduce the size of its estate to a ratio of 10 square is an operational matter for the IPSA. metres per employee, and achieve a ratio of between 8 and 10 square metres per employee when acquiring new property or following major refurbishments. As at ATTORNEY-GENERAL 30 September 2010, the CPS estate averaged 16m2 per employee. The Department does not hold separate British Aerospace: Tanzania figures on the number of desks or workstations on the estate. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Attorney-General if he will make an assessment of the mechanisms available for The CPS has a policy on home working and a number enforcement of the undertaking given by BAE to make of employees do work from home. Some CPS employees a payment to benefit the people of Tanzania as part of work in posts which are home-based on a permanent the settlement announced at Southwark crown court basis, e.g. employees working for CPS Direct (CPSD), on 21 December 2010 in the case of BAE and the sale which provides charging advice to the police outside of an air traffic control system to Tanzania. [32768] normal business hours. In addition, some employees work from home on a casual basis (i.e. as a non-permanent The Solicitor-General: As part of the plea agreement arrangement), at the discretion of their line management, reached with the SFO which was sanctioned by Southwark where there is benefit for both the CPS and the employee. crown court on 21 December 2010, BAE agreed to The CPS has no specific policy covering hot desking. make an ex-gratia payment to the people of Tanzania The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) utilises an open plan of £30 million less the fine imposed by the court. No office policy, there are no cellular offices on the SFO’s formal legal mechanism for enforcement of such a estate. This provides more space for meeting rooms payment exists, but BAE invited the court to pass which are shared by both the SFO and National Fraud sentence on this basis and received a fine which took Authority (NFA). into account the ex gratia payment, there is nothing to suggest that BAE will not make the ex-gratia payment. There is a full and detailed policy for home working BAE is currently considering a proposal by the Government which is one of the options available to staff under the of Tanzania about how the payment will be used for the SFO’s flexible working policy. There are two types of benefit of the people of Tanzania. The Department for home working: International Development have advised the Government Working from home, where the home is used as a base location of Tanzania on the development of their proposal. and the employee may sometimes be required to travel to and from the office Departmental Working Conditions Working at home, where the employee is based at an office but carries out some work in their own home Mike Freer: To ask the Attorney-General what the Law Officers’ Departments’ policy is on (a) the space The combined staffing of the SFO and NFA means provided per employee, (b) home working and (c) hot there are approximately 0.8 employees per desk. There desking; how many employees they have on average per are 20 hot-desks available for SFO staff. On average desk; and how much space on average there is per there is 12.4m2 of space per employee inclusive of employee. [34600] meeting rooms and storage space. 269W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 270W
The NFA recognises the benefit of flexible working Justine Greening: Seats on an aircraft only qualify for arrangements and enables employees to work from the reduced rate of air passenger duty (APD) if they are home as necessary, with appropriate authorisation, but the lowest class of travel and have a seat pitch that does has no policy regarding the provision of office space per not exceed 40 inches. This criterion applies irrespective employee and hot desking. of how the seat is marketed. HMCPI’s London office, occupies a listed building Since the Budget in June, the Government have met a and the average space per employee is 29.5m2. This number of stakeholders to discuss APD. The Government includes common areas such as reception and hallways will explore changes to the aviation tax system and and unusable office space such as plant rooms in the major changes will be subject to consultation. basement. HMCPSI currently does not have a policy on the space provided per employee, however the Inspectorate Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer will soon be relocating to the TSol offices in One what plans he has for the future level of air passenger Kemble street where an open plan policy and hot desking duty in respect of premium economy passengers. [36358] policy is in operation, and it is anticipated that the average space per employee will be much reduced. Justine Greening: Seats on an aircraft only qualify for HMCPSI currently have two members of staff who the reduced rate of air passenger duty (APD) if they are work on a regular basis from home. Staff are entitled to the lowest class of travel and have a seat pitch that does apply to work from home via their line managers and not exceed 40 inches. This criterion applies irrespective such a request would be considered in line with HMCPSI’s of how the seat is marketed. flexible working policy which takes into account the Since the Budget in June, the Government have met a business needs of the organisation and any security number of stakeholders to discuss APD. The Government issues. will explore changes to the aviation tax system and major changes will be subject to consultation. Welsh Language Car Allowances Hywel Williams: To ask the Attorney-General when the Law Officers’ Departments last published a Welsh language scheme in accordance with the provisions of Henry Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the Welsh Language Act 1993; and at which web if he will assess the merits of reviewing the level of the addresses such schemes can be accessed in (a) Welsh HM Revenue and Customs mileage allowance payment. [36047] and (b) English. [31157]
The Attorney-General: The Law Officer’s Departments Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Member to the are not considered to be “public bodies” under the answer given in response to the hon. Member for Ochil provisions of the Welsh Language Act 1993 (Section and South Perthshire (Gordon Banks) on 13 September 21) and are consequently not required to publish a 2010, Official Report, column 785W. Welsh Language Scheme. The Crown Prosecution Service is the only Law Officer’s Department which has produced Child Benefit one and this was last published in 2008. It can be found at: Karl Turner: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer http://www.byig-wlb.org.uk/English/publications/ if he will estimate the potential savings to the Publications/Welsh%20Language%20Scheme%20- Exchequer of withdrawing child benefit from families %20Crown%20Prosecution%20Service.pdf with a higher rate tax payer if the higher rate threshold were adjusted to negate an increase in the personal allowance to £10,000. [35921] TREASURY Justine Greening: The estimated savings depend on Air Passenger Duty the year in which the personal allowance is increased to £10,000. This is subject to future Budget policy decisions, Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer meaning it is not currently possible to estimate the whether implementation of his proposals to reform air potential savings. passenger duty will be revenue-neutral. [35964] Credit Unions Justine Greening: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on 22 November 2010, Official Report, column Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 83W,to my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk what assessment he has made of trends in the number and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter). of credit unions in the last 20 years. [35820]
Gavin Shuker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Hoban: In 1990 there were 275 credit unions in (1) for what reason premium economy aircraft seats are Great Britain, peaking in 2001 at 698, but since then liable for the same rate of air passenger duty as business decreasing to 443. Over the same period, the membership and first class aircraft seats; [36028] of credit unions has grown from 53,916 to over 760,000. (2) what recent representations he has received from We have no comparable figures for Northern Ireland. airlines on the rate of duty levied on premium economy The Legislative Reform (Industrial and Provident Societies seats; and if he will assess the effect on levying such and Credit Unions) Order, currently going through duty at a higher rate on the propensity of airlines to Parliament, should enable credit unions to expand their offer premium economy seats in future. [36029] membership further. 271W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 272W
Departmental Billing Departmental Written Questions
Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Chancellor of the Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what percentage of payments made by his Exchequer (1) how many and what proportion of questions Department to (a) small and medium-sized enterprise tabled to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for written suppliers and (b) all suppliers were made (i) within answer on a named day were answered substantively 10 days of receipt of invoice and (ii) on the agreed before or on the day named for answer (a) in Session payment terms in the last three months for which 2009-10 and (b) since May 2010; how many such information is available. [11165] questions tabled between May 2010 and 12 November 2010 had not received a substantive answer by 18 November Justine Greening: The Treasury aims to pay all suppliers, 2010; and what estimate he has made of the average irrespective of size, within the same time period. The cost to his Department of answering a question for following table shows the 10 day payment performance written answer on a named day on the day named for for the Treasury for the past three months. answer in the latest period for which figures are available. [25969] Percentage of invoices paid (2) how many and what proportion of questions within 10 days tabled to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for ordinary written answer (a) in Session 2009-10 and (b) since May 94.4 May 2010 were answered within (i) seven days and (ii) June 96.5 14 days of tabling; how many such questions tabled July 98.2 between May 2010 and 12 November 2010 remained unanswered by 18 November 2010; and what estimate Details of the five day payment performance for the he has made of the average cost to his Department of Treasury Group (HM Treasury, Debt Management Office answering a question for ordinary written answer and Office of Government Commerce) can be found at: within seven days of tabling in the latest period for www.hm-treasury.gov.uk which figures are available. [25970]
Departmental Pay Justine Greening: The Government have committed to providing the Procedure Committee with statistics by Session in a standard format on the time taken to Lisa Nandy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer respond to written parliamentary questions for the 2009-10 what information his Department holds on the number Session of Parliament. This information will be submitted of sub-contracted staff servicing his Department who to the Procedure Committee shortly. were not paid at a rate equivalent to or above the The information covering the beginning of the current London living wage in the latest period for which Session to 20 December is set out in the table. figures are available. [34818] Answered Justine Greening: HM Treasury has no sub-contracted on or staff servicing 1 Horse Guards road earning less than or before the Answered Answered equivalent to the London living wage. However HM Total due date within within Treasury has no involvement in wage levels for staff received (percentage) 7 days 14 days employed by Exchequer Partnership which provides Named 441 58.3 n/a n/a building maintenance and services. day Ordinary 1,508 66.4 328 139 Departmental Working Conditions written Treasury ministers have replied substantively to all Mike Freer: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer PQs tabled to the Department between May 2010 and what his Department’s policy is on (a) the space 12 November. provided per employee, (b) home working and (c) hot The Treasury conducts an annual indexation exercise desking; how many employees it has on average per of the cost of written and oral parliamentary questions desk; and how much space on average there is per so as to ensure that these average costs go up in line employee. [34592] with increases in underlying costs. The estimated costs that have applied from 20 January 2010 are £154 for Justine Greening: HM Treasury’s Departmental policy written questions and £425 for oral questions. The on (a) space provided per employee (b) home working Treasury, in making its assessment of the cost of answering and (c) hot desking is to provide adequate space and questions, does not differentiate between the types of flexible working opportunities to support the business written questions. in effectively delivering its objectives. In 2009-10, HM Treasury had an average of 1.1 workstations per full-time Economy and Public Finances equivalent employee (FTE)—approximately 0.9 FTE per workstation—at an average space allocation of 13.1 m2. Karl Turner: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Current IT and workplace projects are improving the if he will place in the Library an update to the way the Treasury works, including using space more estimated value of assets set out in table 2.2 of Budget efficiently, supporting remote working more effectively 2010: the economy and public finances, supplementary and moving to desk sharing during the 2010 spending material for the latest period in which figures are review period. available. [35864] 273W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 274W
Danny Alexander: The Office for Budget Responsibility Mr Hoban: The Government in conjunction with the published an update to the aforementioned table in Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority ‘Further information on asset sales, financial transactions, (FSA) are closely monitoring the strength and vulnerability and privatisation receipts’ on 21 December 2010. This of the UK’s banking sector. publication is available at: The Bank of England regularly publish Financial http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/d/ Stability Reports and in their latest one set out in detail asset_sales_financial_transactions_211210.pdf their assessment of the resilience of the UK financial system. The Government assessment of UK financial EU Institutions: Fines institutions is also informed by international reports by the IMF and OECD such as the Global Financial Stability Report. Graham Jones: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what his latest estimate is of the potential UK liability The key financial institutions have also been subject for fines from EU institutions in the next three years. to a rigorous stress testing exercise assessing the strengths [36523] and weaknesses of UK institutions and ensuring that they are well capitalised. In addition, the UK is working closely with the IMF on a system-wide stress test of the Justine Greening: The United Kingdom has never UK financial sector as part of the IMF Financial incurred a financial penalty under article 260 of the Sector Assessment Programme (FSAP) for the UK. treaty on the functioning of the European Union (or This report is expected to be published in July 2011. under the former article 228 (ex article 171) of the treaty establishing the European Community). No such financial penalties are expected over the next three Foreign Exchange: Regulation years. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Excise Duties: Fuels what recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the regulation of currency exchange services; what estimate he has made of the number of individuals who Mr Binley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer have outstanding liabilities following the entry into what estimate he has made of the average cost to administration of Crown Currency Exchange; and what motorists in the next 12 months of the recent increase in recent representations he has received on the entry into the rate of fuel duty . [35924] administration of Crown Currency Exchange. [36245]
Justine Greening: Data on average retail road fuel Mr Hoban: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave prices are published every week by the Department of on 15 November 2010, Official Report, column 613W. Energy and Climate Change at: www.decc.gov.uk/publications Members: Correspondence
Mike Weatherley: Toask the Chancellor of the Exchequer David T. C. Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the what recent representations he has received from motoring Exchequer when the Commercial Secretary to the Treasury groups on his policy on a fuel price stabiliser. [36068] intends to respond to the letter of 23 July 2010 from the hon. Member for Monmouth on national savings and Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Member to the answer investments. [31885] given on 1 November 2010, Official Report, column 665W, to my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park Justine Greening: A reply was sent to the hon. Member (Zac Goldsmith). on 16 December 2010. The Chancellor routinely receives a range of representations from stakeholders and the general public Mr Baron: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on current and future rates of excise duty as well as when his Department plans to respond to the letters other issues such as fuel prices. from the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay of 7 October and 13 December 2010 regarding child Graeme Morrice: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer benefit. [36144] what plans he has to introduce a fuel duty stabiliser. [36256] Mr Gauke: I have replied to the hon. Member.
Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Member to the Royal Mint answer given on 1 November 2010, Official Report, column 665W, to the hon. Member for Richmond Park Mr Knight: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Zac Goldsmith). (1) how much profit of the Royal Mint has been paid to the Exchequer in each of the last three years for which Financial Services figures are available; [30895] (2) whether he or Ministers in his Department have Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer authorised spending by the Royal Mint on television what assessment he has made of the main areas of (a) advertising; [30896] strength and (b) weakness of the financial services (3) what the cost to the public purse is of the television industry. [35625] advertising campaign by the Royal Mint. [30897] 275W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 276W
Justine Greening: The Royal Mint is a Government- As was the case with previous Administrations, it is not owned company which operates at arm’s length from the Government’s practice to provide details of all such HM Treasury within an agreed governance framework. meetings. The Royal Mint pays a regular dividend to HM Treasury as declared in its annual report and accounts, which in Taxation: Gaming Machines 2009-10 was £4 million, in 2008-09 was £4 million and in 2007-08 was £3.9 million. Operational decisions such Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer as advertising strategy are made by the company on a what assessment he has made of the potential effects on commercial basis and details of these are commercially businesses in North Wales of replacing the amusement confidential. machine licence duty with a gross profits tax. [35567] Tax Avoidance Justine Greening: The Government are seeking further input from industry on Machine Games Duty, and it is Mr Meacher: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended that a formal consultation will be held in how much revenue was raised as a result of Government spring or early summer. action against tax avoidance (a) in the last five years and (b) since May 2010; and how much such revenue he expects to raise in the next 12 months. [36287]
Mr Gauke: Total results for tax recovered as a result EDUCATION of our tackling non-compliance can be found in HMRC’s Departmental Autumn Performance Report 2009 at Children: Protection table 4, which is available at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/about/autumn-report-2009.pdf John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for The amounts attributable to avoidance are not identifiable Education how many children aged (a) under one, separately because HMRC do not collate performance (b) between one and four, (c) between five and nine, data on this basis. (d) between 10 and 15 and (e) over 16 years went from The fiscal impact of all Budget measures, including being subject to a care order or protection order etc, to measures to close off avoidance opportunities, can be each category of destination in each year since 1995. found in each Budget report. [29389] On 6 December the Government announced a package Tim Loughton: The information requested on how of further measures to tackle tax avoidance. These many children aged (a) under one, (b) between one measures in aggregate are estimated to raise over £2 billion and four, (c) between five and nine, (d) between 10 and in additional revenue over the next four years. The final 15 and (e) over 16 years went from care, defined as costings for the package of measures will be subject to subject to a care order or protection order etc, to each scrutiny by the Office for Budget Responsibility and category of destination in each year since 1995 can be will be set out at the Budget. provided only at a disproportionate cost. The Government are also investing £900 million over the spending review period to transform HMRC’s work Departmental Allowances against avoidance, evasion and criminal attack, to bring in extra tax revenue of around £7 billion a year by 2014-15. Matthew Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how much his Department and its predecessors Tax Yields: Northern Ireland spent on (a) reimbursement of staff expenses and (b) the 10 largest staff expense reimbursement claims in Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Chancellor of the each year since 1997. [13049] Exchequer how much was (a) collected in taxation and (b) spent on public services in Northern Ireland in Tim Loughton: Information available on the reimbursements spent on staff expenses is set out in the each of the last five years. [36005] following table: Danny Alexander: Figures on the total amount of Total staff reimbursement costs taxes collected in Northern Ireland are not available. Financial year (£) The latest figures for total identifiable spending in Northern Ireland are published in table 9.1, Public Expenditure 2004-05 3,968.78 Statistical Analyses 2010 (Cm 7890). 2005-06 66,421.89 2006-07 68,594.29 Taxation: Bingo 2007-08 83,297.65 2008-09 39,960.04 Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2009-10 88,221.93 whether he has met representatives of the bingo industry to discuss taxation of the industry. [10590] Information for previous years and the 10 largest claims for all years could be obtained only at Justine Greening: Treasury Ministers and officials disproportionate cost. meet representatives from a wide range of organisations All expenditure has been incurred in accordance with and individuals in the public and private sectors as part the principles of Managing Public Money and the of the process of policy development and implementation. Treasury handbook on Regularity and Propriety. 277W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 278W
Departmental Conferences Mr Gibb [holding answer 24 January 2011]: This is a matter for the Office of Qualifications and Examinations Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Regulation (Ofqual). The chief executive of Ofqual, Education what steps he has taken since his appointment Isabel Nisbet, will write to the hon. Member and a copy to reduce expenditure on conferences from budgets of his reply will be placed in the House Libraries. within his responsibility. [28353] Pupils: Bullying Tim Loughton: The Department has put in place efficiency controls to ensure significant items of expenditure Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for are approved at a senior level. Where possible, conferences Education how many grants his Department made to are held within the Department’s premises in order to organisations engaged in bullying prevention in each keep costs to a minimum. year from 2004-05 to 2009-10; and what his estimate is of the number of such grants to be made in 2010-11. Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for [27700] Education what his Department’s annual budget for conferences was at (a) 7 May 2010 and (b) 7 December Mr Gibb [holding answer 30 November 2010]: The 2010. [30035] Department for Education’s predecessors awarded both grants and contracts to organisations engaged in anti- Tim Loughton: The Department’s annual budget for bullying work between the financial years of 2004-05 management conferences at 7 May 2010 was £213,000 and 2009-10. The work undertaken by these organisations and at 7 December 2010 it was £126,541. This is a ranged from the production of guidance and resources reduction of £86,459 or 40.6%. on bullying to supporting schools and local authorities develop their strategies to tackle bullying. The total Departmental Equality budget of these grants and contracts for the six the financial years from 2004-05 to 2009-10 was £10,479,975.00, an average of £1.75 million per financial year. The Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for organisations in receipt of the grants and/or contracts Education what plans he has to publish equality impact were: assessments undertaken by his Department as part of Anti-Bullying Alliance the comprehensive spending review; and if he will make Parentline Plus a statement. [18277] Diana Awards Tim Loughton [holding answer 20 October 2010]: Beatbullying The Government stated in their “Spending Review Stonewall Framework” that they would ChildLine in Partnership with Schools Programme “look closely at the effects of its decisions on different groups in Mentoring and Befriending Foundation society, especially the least well off, and on different regions” Kidscape (2.4, page 7). The Treasury has published its “Overview Childnet International of the impact of the Spending Review on equalities”. Council for Disabled Children The Department will further consider equalities impacts as appropriate and as decisions are taken on how to The Department for Education budget for anti-bullying pursue policy aims with the resources allocated to us. prevention in 2010-11 financial year is £1,979,711.00. This budget will be spent on two grants and three contracts to Kidscape, Diana Awards, Parentline Plus, Departmental Procurement Beatbullying and the Anti-Bullying Alliance.
Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Schools: Brighton what recent discussions he has had with voluntary and community groups on bidding for contracts let by his Department. [32032] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many schools in the city of Brighton Tim Loughton: The Minister of State for Children and Hove area operated a school sport partnership and Families and I met representatives of key departmental programme in each year since 2007. [32397] voluntary and community organisations on 11 November 2010 to consult them on draft proposals for the overall Tim Loughton: All maintained schools in the city of process for future funding of the voluntary and community Brighton and Hove have been members of the Dorothy sector which subsequently resulted in our national Stringer school sport partnership (SSP) since 2007. The prospectus published on 22 November 2010 inviting Secretary of State has confirmed funding for the expressions of interest for grants through open competition. partnerships until the end of the school year 2010/11, after which it will be for Brighton and Hove schools to decide for themselves whether to continue to work in Latin: GCSE partnership to organise competitive sport. The Secretary of State has also announced that every secondary school Michael Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for will be funded to summer 2013 to allow a PE teacher to Education for what reasons Latin has been disallowed be out of the classroom for a day a week, embedding as a GCSE examination by the Welsh Joint Education current good practice and encouraging greater take-up Committee. [35572] of competitive sport. 279W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 280W
Schools: Brighton Kemptown The School and College Performance tables can be accessed via the Department’s website at: Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Education http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/ what recent assessment he has made of standards of We want all children, whatever their background, to attainment in schools in the Brighton, Kemptown achieve high standards in reading, writing and mathematics. constituency. [31495] That is why we are introducing a pupil premium which will provide extra funding for those schools with the Mr Gibb: The latest available information is given in most challenging intakes. the following tables: Schools: Sports Key Stage 2: Percentage of pupils attending schools in Brighton Kemptown achieving level 4 or above in both English and Mathematics, 2008to2010 Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 2009 2010 Education how much School Sports Partnership grant was allocated to schools in Stoke-on-Trent Central Bevendean Primary School 67 59 59 constituency in 2009-10. [28835] Carlton Hill Primary School 92 63 1— Coombe Road Primary School 61 57 1— Tim Loughton: Stoke-on-Trent Central is within the Hoddern Junior School 64 62 1— Berry Hill school sport partnership (SSP). For academic Meridian Community Primary 77 69 54 year 2009/10 Berry Hill received a total of £292,387 of School SSP funding. This money was divided between one Moulsecoomb Primary School 61 49 1— sports college, eight secondary schools, one secondary Our Lady of Lourdes RC School 86 75 1— special school, two special primary schools, one pupil Queen’s Park Primary School 78 57 1— referral unit (PRU) and 34 primary schools. 1 Rudyard Kipling Primary School 82 48 — Sixth Form Colleges: Finance Saltdean Primary School 75 75 1— St John the Baptist Catholic 80 83 1— Primary School Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for St Luke’s Primary School 79 80 1— Education what the Barnett consequentials are of the St Margaret’s CofE Primary 72 78 79 funding arrangements announced in his statement on School 19 January 2011 on capital funding for sixth form St Mark’s CofE Primary School 48 60 1— colleges and 16 to 19 years basic need; and if he will Telscombe Cliffs Community 68 75 59 make a statement. [35844] Primary School Whitehawk Primary School 33 28 1— Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. Woodingdean Primary School 83 77 1— Capital funding in 2011-12 for sixth form colleges Downs View Special School 2— 2— 2— and for places in schools and academies with sixth forms will be funded from within DFE’s existing spending Brighton Kempton constituency 70 65 n/a review 2010 capital allocations. The allocation of the funding entails no new spending and as a result no new England 73 72 73 funding for the devolved Administrations. The devolved Administrations have received Barnett consequentials n/a = Not available. 1 Boycott school. The school did not submit Key Stage 2 results. on this funding in the normal way. 2 The school had 10, or fewer, pupils eligible for KS2 assessment at the time of the tests. Results are not shown because of the risk of an Third Sector: Finance individual pupil’s results being identified. Source: Anne Marie Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for School and College Performance tables Education how many third sector organisations or Key Stage 4: Percentage of pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 attending registered charities have received funding from the schools in Brighton Kemptown gaining 5+ A*- C grades at GCSE or Youth Sector Development Fund; and what the cost to equivalent including English and Mathematics GCSEs, 2008 to 2010 the public purse was of that programme on the latest 2008 2009 2010 date for which figures are available. [20467] Falmer High School1 19 25 23 Tim Loughton: The Youth Sector Development Fund Longhill High School 36 41 43 has provided grant funding and business support to 43 Peacehaven Community School 46 41 44 civil sector organisations. Total grant, management and 2 2 2 Downs View Special School — — — business support costs from April 2008 to the end of September 2010 are £56.3 million. Brighton Kemptown 34.7 36.8 n/a constituency Written Questions: Government Responses
England 47.6 49.8 53.4 Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for n/a = Not available. Education when he plans to reply to question 18277, on 1 Falmer High School closed on 31 August 2010. equality impact assessments, tabled on 14 October 2 Data suppressed as the school has 10 or fewer pupils in a particular 2010 for ordinary written answer. [29766] denominator for the indicator. Results are not shown because of the risk of an individual pupil’s results being identified. Source: Tim Loughton: A response was issued to the hon. School and College Performance tables Member today. 281W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 282W
CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Mr Vaizey: I have not made any specific assessment of the main areas of strength and weakness of the Arts: Employment creative industries. However, the Creative Industries Economic Estimates Report produced by DCMS in Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2010 reported that the creative industries, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what estimate he excluding crafts, accounted for 5.6% of gross value has made of the number of people employed in the arts added to the UK economy in 2008. sector in each local authority area in Yorkshire and the Potential opportunities and barriers to growth in this Humber; and if he will make a statement. [36101] sector will be considered as part of the digital and creative industries growth review. Mr Vaizey: The Department does not hold this information. However, Arts Council England has provided Cricket: Television figures relating to the number of arts sector staff, in each employment category, in their Regularly Funded Mark Menzies: To ask the Secretary of State for Organisations (RFOs). The 2009-10 figures for Yorkshire Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent and the Humber are set out in the table. representations he has received on the broadcast of (a) future Ashes series and (b) other live Test cricket on Permanent Permanent Local authority full-time part-time Contractual terrestrial television; and if he will make a statement. [36142] Barnsley 3 4 30 Bradford 92 50 353 Mr Vaizey [holding answer 25 January 2011]: The Calderdale 16 18 104 Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Craven 0 12 8 Sport has received no recent representations on the Doncaster 9 26 36 broadcasting of test cricket. The Government have East Riding of 32253made the decision to defer any review of listed events Yorkshire until 2013 following the completion of digital switchover. Hambleton 4 2 55 Harrogate222359 Internet Kingston upon 40 57 112 Hull, City of John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Kirklees 47 34 332 Olympics, Media and Sport on what date he plans to Leeds 433 179 1,406 hold the proposed Ministerial seminar on hate on the North East 01016internet. [35723] Lincolnshire North 6290Mr Vaizey: My officials are in discussion with other Lincolnshire interested Departments and we hope to arrange for Richmondshire 8 4 16 these important matters to be discussed further in the Ryedale 4 6 330 spring. Scarborough 34 17 60 Sheffield 194 115 552 Lottery Wakefield 101 116 78 York 39 26 175 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Total 1,055 750 3,775 Olympics, Media and Sport how much has been paid from the Big Lottery fund to projects in (a) the most Broadband deprived 100 wards and (b) the least deprived 100 wards in each year for which data is available. [35808] Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has Mr Vaizey: The information requested is not held made of the suitability of North Wales as a designated centrally. area in the next round of broadband pilots. [35743] I have therefore asked the chief executive of the Big Mr Vaizey: I have made no such assessment. The Lottery Fund to write to the hon. Member for the Vale Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and of Clwyd directly. Sport announced on 6 December that £50 million would Copies of the response will be placed in the Libraries be made available for the next round of broadband of both Houses. projects. Bids for support for projects will be invited from local authorities in April 2011 on the basis of guidance from Broadband Delivery UK, to be issued in the near future. At that point, any bid from north Wales ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS will be given the same consideration as all the others Agriculture: Subsidies submitted. Creative Industries Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for she has made of her Department’s expenditure on Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment matched funding for Rural Development Fund payments he has made of the main areas of (a) strength and (b) to farmers in England in (a) 2010-11 and (b) each of weakness of the creative industries. [35623] the next four years. [35754] 283W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 284W
Mr Paice: The estimate used for DEFRA’s 2010-11 Animal Products: Imports Exchequer contribution to the Rural Development Programme for England 2007-13, as part of spending review 2010, was £193 million. Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her The annual indicative spending plans for the Exchequer Department has budgeted for (a) print press, (b) television, contribution over the remainder of the current programme (c) internet and (d) poster material to raise awareness period, up to 2013, are: among the general public of the potential risks from 2011-12: £140 million illegal imports of products of animal origin in (i) 2010-11 2012-13: £137 million and (ii) each of the next four years. [35756] 2013-14: £127 million. Mr Paice: DEFRA’s 2010-11 budget for developing Animal Feed and delivering communication to raise awareness among the general public of the potential risks from illegal Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for imports of products of animal origin is £44,475. This Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take activity includes research to inform the development of steps to encourage British farmers to use home-grown a communication strategy, an annual rate to continue to animal feed rather than imported animal feed. [35559] broadcast a free-to-air TV filler (Don’t Bring Me Back) and storage of leaflets and event materials prior to Mr Paice: The use of the most appropriate animal distribution. feed is just one of a number of policy issues associated For the next four years, DEFRA anticipates a budget with the sustainability of the UK livestock sector that of less than £25,000 per annum on paid-for communication the Government are considering, and DEFRA is currently about illegal imports of products of animal origin. The investing in research and development to deliver the budget reflects the Government-wide reduction in spending information we need for science-based alternatives to on marketing and advertising campaigns. current feedstuffs. The Government will continue to support UK food and farming businesses in ensuring Biofuels that resources needed from abroad to supplement our livestock industry are sourced sensitively and responsibly. Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for Animal Feed: Production Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions her Department has had with the Department of Energy and Climate Change on the development of crops for Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for biomass energy generation; and whether her Department Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate is taking steps to ensure that the cultivation of energy she has made of the proportion of feed for livestock in crops meets demand for biomass fuels. [34764] England which is produced in the UK. [36202]
Mr Paice: DEFRA surveys collect information on Mr Paice: Officials at the Department for Environment, the amount of raw materials and the corresponding Food and Rural Affairs have regular discussions with amount of compound animal feed produced for Great officials at the Department of Energy and Climate Britain and integrated poultry feed for UK. In both Change regarding the development of crops for biomass these cases, the feed is produced and used domestically. energy generation. These discussions cover a wide range These do not distinguish between domestic and imported of issues, including incentivising renewable energy, raw materials. For some of the raw materials such as sustainability, energy security, business opportunities in soya cake and meal, this would have to be imported as it the UK farming and forestry sectors, and delivery of is not grown in the UK. the UK’s targets for climate change and renewable energy. Cereals are an important element of animal feed across all livestock types, and broadly make up around 40% of feed. The remaining 60% consists of crops, such Biofuels: Carbon Emissions as soy, and also by-products from the food and drink industry, such as distillery dregs. Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for For the key cereals, such as wheat and barley, an Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for what reasons estimate is made of the proportions of domestic and figures for direct carbon emissions from the combustion imported grain used for animal feed through the cereals of fuel sources were removed from the Biomass Energy balance sheet. This also includes grain which is home Centre website. [34763] mixed and used on farm for feed in addition to manufactured compound feed. The balance sheet estimates Mr Paice: The managers of the Biomass Energy indicate that the vast majority (above 96%) of wheat Centre website removed the information because it became and barley grain used for animal feed is domestically clear to them that there was some misrepresentation sourced. of this information. This was probably due to a Links to the DEFRA surveys and the cereals balance misunderstanding of the fundamental difference between sheet are available at: the direct carbon emissions associated with burning http://www.defra.gov.uk/evidence/statistics/foodfarm/food/ biomass (releasing carbon from the current carbon animalfeed/documents/mcompspn.pdf cycle) and fossil fuels (releasing carbon sequestered in http://www.hgca.com/ prehistoric times). The estimates of lifecycle carbon document.aspx?fn=load&media_id=6793&publicationId=99 emissions remain on the website. 285W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 286W
Birds of Prey: Crime Act 1981, England and Wales, during the period 2000 to 2009 (latest available). Data held centrally on the Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings Database does Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the not include information about the circumstances behind answer of 21 December 2010, Official Report, column each case other than that which may be identified from 1333W, on birds of prey: crime, how many convictions a statute and it is not possible to identify the separate there were for offences relating to persecution of birds species of birds as given in the statute. Therefore it is of prey in (a) England, (b) Wales, (c) Scotland and not possible to say how many convictions related specifically (d) Northern Ireland in each year since 2000. [36130] to birds of prey. Court proceedings data for 2010 is planned to be Richard Benyon: The following table provides information published in the spring. on the number of defendants found guilty at all courts Information for Scotland and Northern Ireland are for bird related offences under the Wildlife and Countryside matters for the relevant Administrations.
Number of defendants found guilty at all courts for bird related offences, England and Wales, 2000 to 20091, 2 Offence Statute description 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
England Wildlife and Protection of 4 32—12—321 Countryside Act captive birds 1981 Sec 8(3)(a) & 21(1), and 8(3)(b) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of 1115918472184181510 Countryside Act wild birds 1981 Sec 1(1)(a), 1(4) & 21(1), and 1(5)(b) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of 6 17657911244 Countryside Act nests and eggs 1981 Sec 1(1)(b), of wild birds. 1(4) & 21(1), and 1(1)(c) 1(4) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of — —— 1—————— Countryside Act wild birds in 1981 Sec 3(1)(a) sanctuaries Wildlife and Protection of — ————————— Countryside Act the nests and 1981 Sec 3(1)(a) eggs of wild birds in sanctuaries Wildlife and Illegal entry — ————————— Countryside Act into bird 1981 Sec 3(1)(b) sanctuaries Wildlife and Prohibition of 1 2421341—4 Countryside Act certain methods 1981 Sec 5(1)(b) & of killing or 21(1), 5(1)(c) & taking wild 21(1), 5(1)(d) & birds 21(1), 5(1)(e) & 21(1), and 5(1)(f) & 21(1) Wildlife and Sale etc. of live 3 1—— 1— 1— 1 2 Countryside Act or dead wild 1981 Sec 6(1)(a) & birds, eggs etc. 6(4) & 21(1), 6(1)(a) 21(1), 6(1)(b) & 6(4) & 21(1), 6(1)(b) & 21(1), 6(2)(a) 6(4) & 21(1), 6(2)(a) 21(1), 6(2)(b) 6(4) & 21(1), 6(3) 6(4) & 21(1), 6(3) & 21(1) Wildlife and Registration etc. 1 — 2 2 1———— 1 Countryside Act of certain 1981 Sec 7(3)(a) & captive birds 21(1), 7(3)(b) & 21(1), 7(4)(a) & 21(1), and 7(4)(b) & 21(1) Total England 26 38 23 28 58 35 100 24 22 22 287W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 288W
Statute Offence 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 20083 2009 description
Wales3 Wildlife and Protection of — ——————— 1— Countryside Act captive birds. 1981 Sec 8(3)(a) & 21(1), and 8(3)(b) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of 4 2225333 31 Countryside Act wild birds 1981 Sec 1(1)(a), 1(4) & 21(1), and 1(5)(b) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of — 1121——1—1 Countryside Act nests and eggs 1981 Sec 1(1)(b), of wild birds 1(4) & 21(1), and 1(1)(c) 1(4) & 21(1) Wildlife and Protection of — ——————— —— Countryside Act wild birds in 1981 Sec 3(1)(a) sanctuaries Wildlife and Protection of — ——————— —— Countryside Act the nests and 1981 Sec 3(1)(a) eggs of wild birds in sanctuaries Wildlife and Illegal entry — ——————— —— Countryside Act into bird 1981 Sec 3(1)(b) sanctuaries Wildlife and Prohibition of 1 —— 1———— —— Countryside Act certain 1981 Sec 5(1)(b) & methods of 21(1), 5(1)(c) & killing or 21(1), 5(1)(d) & taking wild 21(1), 5(1)(e) & birds 21(1), and 5(1)(f) & 21(1) Wildlife and Sale etc. of live — ——————— —— Countryside Act or dead wild 1981 Sec 6(1)(a) & birds, eggs etc. 6(4) & 21(1), 6(1)(a) & 21(1), 6(1)(b) & 6(4) & 21(1), 6(1)(b) & 21(1), 6(2)(a) & 6(4) & 21(1), 6(2)(a) & 21(1), 6(2)(b) 6(4) & 1(1), 6(3) 6(4) & 21(1), 6(3) & 21(1) Wildlife and Registration 1 ——————— —— Countryside Act etc. of certain 1981 Sec 7(3)(a) & captive birds 21(1), 7(3)(b) & 21(1), 7(4)(a) & 21(1), and 7(4)(b) & 21(1) Total Wales 6 3356334 42
Total England and 32 41 26 33 64 38 103 28 26 24 Wales 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 3 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and August 2008. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice.
Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for 1333W, on birds of prey: crime, how many incidents of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the illegal (a) poisoning, (b) shooting, (c) trapping and answer of 21 December 2010, Official Report, column (d) nest destruction were recorded in (i) England, 289W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 290W
(ii) Wales, (iii) Scotland and (iv) Northern Ireland in Year Two (1 September 2009 to 31 August 2010) respect of each of the five priority raptor species in each Sub category Grand of incident Species England PSNI Scotland Wales total year since 2000. [36135] White —— 1— 1 Tailed Sea Eagle Richard Benyon: Comprehensive information is not Nest 2—619 held centrally. However many UK police forces provide Disturbance the National Wildlife Crime Unit (NWCU) with Total information about incidents occurring in their areas. The NWCU holds data for the two years from 1 September Shooting Red kite 2 — 1 — 3 2008 as follows: White — 1—— 1 Tailed Sea Year One (1 September 2008 to 31 August 2009) Eagle Sub category Grand Shooting 211—4 of incident Species England PSNI Scotland Wales total Total
Confirmed Golden —— 2— 2 Poisoning Eagle Unconfirmed Redkite1—113 Poisoning Redkite1—124 Unconfirmed 1—113 White —— 1— 1Poisoning Tailed Sea Total Eagle Confirmed 1—427 Poisoning Grand Total 8 2 15 4 29 Total Notes: 1. Not all police forces send information to the NWCU. 2. Information sent by the other organisations (e.g. RSPB) is not included. Nest Golden —— 1— 1 3. Two years’ information is insufficient to extrapolate any accurate trends. Disturbance Eagle Goshawk 1 — — 1 2 Hen —— 1— 1 Common Agricultural Policy Harrier Redkite—11—2Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Nest 11316Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy Disturbance Total is on negotiations on the draft Common Agricultural Policy regulation for 2011. [36229]
Shooting Hen 1——— 1 Harrier Mr Paice: It is unclear exactly what the question is Shooting 1——— 1referring to. There are many regulations relating to the Total common agricultural policy (CAP) being modified in 2011 to bring them into line with revised comitology Traps/Snares Red kite — — 1 — 1 arrangements introduced by the Lisbon treaty. The UK Traps/Snares —— 1— 1will continue to work with the European Commission Total to ensure these technical changes are adopted in the most sensible manner. Unconfirmed Goshawk1——— 1 If, however, the question is concerning the future of Poisoning the CAP for the period 2014- 20, we anticipate the Redkite211—4Commission will release legislative proposals in the Unconfirmed 311—5summer. The UK wants to see a competitive, thriving Poisoning Total and sustainable EU agriculture and food sector that is able to rise to the challenges and opportunities of the future. We therefore need ambitious reform of the CAP GrandTotal 629320to deliver good value for farmers, taxpayers, consumers and the environment. Year Two (1 September 2009 to 31 August 2010) Sub category Grand Common Agricultural Policy: Imported Soy of incident Species England PSNI Scotland Wales total
Confirmed Golden —— 2— 2 Poisoning Eagle Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Redkite315211Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is on the position of imported soy during forthcoming Confirmed 317213 Poisoning negotiations on the Common Agricultural Policy. Total [35514]
Nest Golden —— 3— 3 Mr Paice: The Government are committed to ensuring Disturbance Eagle that we have a thriving and sustainable livestock sector Goshawk2——— 2in the UK and welcome views on the forthcoming Hen —— 2— 2common agricultural policy negotiations, particularly Harrier as discussions progress in the run up to the Commission Red kite — — — 1 1 producing draft regulations in the summer. 291W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 292W
The importation of soy is just one of a number of prevention and protection. Floor damping is the process policy issues associated with the sustainability of the of guaranteeing that no authority will receive more UK livestock sector that the Government will consider than a maximum percentage decrease in grant year-on-year during negotiations, and DEFRA is currently investing on a like-for-like basis; in order to pay for this changes in research and development to deliver the information above the floor are scaled back for other authorities. we need for science-based alternatives to its use as a feedstuff. Importantly, the issues go much further than Floods feeding livestock alone, as two-thirds of manufactured food products contain ingredients or derivatives made Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for from soy. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what review her Department has undertaken to identify those areas of Common Agricultural Policy: Reform the UK that are at risk of flooding. [35244]
Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: The floods directive, as transposed Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what her by the Flood Risk Regulations 2009 in England and policy is on the development of an agreed UK negotiating Wales, requires member states to identify areas that are position on Common Agricultural Policy reform which at potentially significant risk of flooding. Flood hazard takes into account the opinions of the devolved and flood risk maps and management plans must then administrations; [35896] be prepared for these areas. (2) what recent discussions she has had with the Given that the Environment Agency already holds devolved administrations on Common Agricultural equivalent maps and plans for main rivers and coastal Policy reform. [35897] flood risk, our work focused on local sources of flooding, for which responsibility lies with lead local flood authorities. Mr Paice: I am committed to working closely with To assist local authorities in determining flood risk the devolved Administrations (DAs) and both the Secretary areas, DEFRA has identified indicative areas which of State and I have met with them several times to local authorities must then review. discuss the emerging UK position on reform of the The method for identifying indicative risk areas was common agricultural policy (CAP). Our forthcoming developed in consultation with the Environment Agency response to the Commission’s CAP Communication, , Welsh Assembly Government, the Department for about which the Secretary of State wrote to her ministerial Communities and Local Government and the Local counterparts earlier in January, will reflect many of the Government Association, drawing on both the Environment DAs’ concerns. It is important that the UK position on Agency’s flood maps for surface water and a database CAP highlights the need for the sort of ambitious of assets at risk. This established areas where 200 people, reform that will enable farmers to adapt to the challenges two or more critical services or 20 or more businesses and opportunities of the future. are at risk of flooding. Clusters of these areas were Domestic Biomass Burners: Carbon Emissions identified and the results were then ranked to determine the highest risk areas. A threshold of 30,000 people at risk was applied to ensure that the subsequent mapping Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, and planning phases are achievable and not too onerous. Food and Rural Affairs (1) what her policy is on amending emission limits on domestic biomass burners under The result was ten indicative flood risk areas within 20MW to 30g/GJ for particulates and 150g/GJ for England, which account for 33% of the national surface NOx; [36291] water risk. Eight such areas have been identified in Wales. (2) what steps she is taking to reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen from domestic biomass boilers A similar approach has been applied in Northern through (a) the use of abatement equipment and (b) Ireland, and Scotland is in the process of identifying an other means. [36292] appropriate methodology. Food: Consumption Richard Benyon: DEFRA is in discussion with the Department for Energy and Climate Change over the establishment of emission limits for particulates and Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for nitrogen oxides where biomass combustion is incentivised. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is on consumption in the UK of (a) intensively Flood Control: Finance produced meat and (b) imported soy feeds. [36091]
Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: The Government believes there is a place Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much will for sustainable intensification in food production. The be distributed to local authorities for flood prevention world needs more food, at less cost to the environment. and protection through the local government formula Global food security requires the UK, and other grant in each of the next four financial years. [35757] Governments in the developed world, to help farmers adopt methods of sustainable intensification. This can Richard Benyon: Formula grant is an “unhypothecated help to build the farming practices that will provide the block grant”. This means that authorities are free to abundant food we need for the future. spend it on any service. For this reason, and due to the The importation of soy is just one of a number of method of calculating formula grant, particularly floor policy issues associated with the sustainability of the damping, it is not possible to say how much grant has UK livestock sector that the Government are considering, been provided for any particular service, including flood and DEFRA is currently investing in research and 293W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 294W development to deliver the information we need for Mr Paice: Neither DEFRA, nor any of the regional science-based alternatives to its use as a feedstuff. development agencies, has received an application or Importantly, the issues go much further than feeding granted funding under either the RDPE, or any of the livestock alone, as two-thirds of manufactured food Department’s other support arrangements, for a large-scale products contain ingredients or derivatives made from intensive pig farm at Foston. soy. Forests Pigs: Animal Welfare
Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what assessment representations her Department has received on the her Department has made of the effect on animal proposed disposal of the public forest estate to date; welfare of keeping pigs in (a) very large herds and (b) what categories her Department uses to classify such herds kept largely under a roof; [36121] representations; and whether representations which are based on a common pro forma letter submitted by (2) what her policy is on intensive pig farming; individual members of the public to her Department [36125] are recorded as individual representations. [36234] (3) what recent assessment she has made of health and welfare standards applicable to large-scale pig Mr Paice: Since the beginning of October last year farms in which pigs are housed indoors all year round; we have received just over 800 representations on the [36126] sale of the public forest estate. (4) what assessment she has made of the implications The categories of correspondence are: letters and emails for animal welfare of proposed large-scale intensive pig received directly from members of the public; letters farms; [36128] and emails to Ministers from MPs, often on behalf of (5) what her policy is on proposals to establish their constituents; and letters and emails to Ministers large-scale intensive pig farms. [36129] from interested organisations. These representations have all been recorded individually. Mr Paice: Operational pig farms must comply with In addition, we have received around 2,700 campaign all the relevant legislation, including comprehensive emails from Forest.org. These have also been recorded environmental and animal welfare legislation, which individually. will apply equally to all livestock farms whatever the Local Authorities: Antisocial Behaviour size of unit or system of production. Planning proposals for intensive pig farming units are for the relevant planning authorities to examine. Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans her Department has It is important to recognise that poor welfare may to enhance the powers of local councils to take action occur in both intensive and extensive systems. Increasing against noisy neighbours. [35537] the size of herds does not mean reducing animal welfare. More important factors are the design and construction Richard Benyon: I believe the legislative duties and of the units and the level of stockmanship. This is powers available, including those under the statutory echoed in the current scientific advice from the Farm nuisance provisions of the Environment Protection Act Animal Welfare Council, that the most significant influence 1990, are broadly sufficient to enable local councils to on the welfare of livestock is the stock-keeper, not the take action against noisy neighbours. However, as part system in which it is reared. of the implementation of the Noise Policy Statement DEFRA has not made any further assessment of the for England, published in 2010, DEFRA officials are implications for animal welfare of proposed large-scale working with those at the Home Office on the review of intensive pig farms. the tools and powers available to address antisocial behaviour. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Midland Pig Producers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what research her Department has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on the effect of intensive pig farms on (i) traditional pig Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for farmers, (ii) local rural economies and (iii) rural Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent management. [36124] representations she has received on farming practices at Midland Pig Producers, Foston, Derbyshire. [36123] Mr Paice: DEFRA has not commissioned or evaluated Mr Paice: We have received no recent representations any specific research into these aspects of intensive on farming practices at Midlands Pig Producers. indoor pig production. There is, however, ongoing research into other aspects, including animal welfare. The UK Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for pig industry has some of the highest standards of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she has animal welfare within the European Union. (a) received an application for and (b) granted In line with the progressive reform of the common funding under (i) the Rural Development Programme agricultural policy, it is important for the UK pig sector for England and (ii) any other of her Department’s to compete globally. We therefore welcome innovative programmes in respect of the proposed large-scale and entrepreneurial efforts by farmers to improve their intensive pig farm in Foston, Derbyshire. [36199] competitiveness while protecting the environment and 295W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 296W meeting animal welfare standards. Pig farms must comply Richard Benyon: Ministers have regular discussions with all the relevant legislation, including comprehensive with water companies (including Thames Water), the environmental and animal welfare legislation, whatever Environment Agency and Ofwat on a range of issues, the size of unit or system of production. including the Thames tunnel. Officials have been working closely with all three organisations to take forward the Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for commitment in my written statement to the House of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take 7 September 2010, Official Report, columns 9-10WS, steps to ensure that future proposals for intensive pig that I would want to be assured before construction farming (a) are examined by her Department, (b) take starts that any final proposal delivers proper value for account of the views of local residents and (c) do not money adversely affect the natural environment. [36127] Sewers: EU Law Mr Paice: Planning proposals for intensive pig farming units are for the relevant planning authorities to examine. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for In the assessment of planning applications for agriculture Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent development proposals, it is a matter for the relevant assessment she has made of the UK’s capacity to meet planning authority to take account of the views of local its obligations in Greater London under the EU Urban residents and the natural environment. Waste Water Treatment Directive. [35962]
River Thames: Tunnels Richard Benyon: The five year ‘Thames Tideway Strategic Study’ reported to Government in 2005 and included an Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for assessment of potential solutions both to meet water Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what assessment quality objectives for the Thames Tideway area, and to she has made of the value for money of the Thames ensure the requirements of the urban waste water treatment Water proposal for the construction of a second Thames directive continue to be met. It concluded that the tunnel; [35958] frequency and volume of discharges of untreated waste water from combined sewer overflows into the River (2) what assessment her Department has made of the Thames should be reduced. environmental effects of the Thames Water proposal for the construction of a second Thames tunnel; I refer my hon. Friend to my written statement of [35959] 7 September 2010, Official Report, columns 9-10WS, regarding sewer overflows in the River Thames, which (3) what recent estimate she has made of the cost to confirmed the Government’s support for a tunnel-based the public purse of a second Thames tunnel; [35961] solution to the problems in the Thames. (4) what recent assessment she has made of the merits of a second Thames tunnel to reduce the number of Water: Employment sewer overflows into the River Thames. [35963] Dr Phillip Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: I refer my hon. Friend to my written Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her statement of 7 September 2010, Official Report, columns Department (a) has undertaken and (b) plans to undertake 9-10WS regarding sewer overflows in the River Thames. any studies on the effects of the Asset Management Since that statement in support of a tunnel-based solution Period cycle on levels of employment within the water to the problem of excessive sewer overflows into the industry and its supply chain; and if she will make a Thames, we have been working with Ofwat to scrutinise statement. [36270] and review the costs of the project to ensure that it continues to represent value for money. I intend to Richard Benyon: Ofwat, as the independent economic publish an updated impact assessment which will review regulator for the water sector, is responsible for setting the costs and benefits of the project in the summer. water price limits every five years. Within this framework, This Department also published a draft National water and sewerage companies are responsible for decisions Policy Statement (NPS) for Waste Water in November on how they manage their investment programme. 2010, which sets out the Government’s policy for the The water industry has provided evidence on the provision of major waste water infrastructure, including effect of Ofwat’s price controls to the current review of the Thames Tunnel. The NPS is accompanied by an Ofwat, led by David Gray. This review will report to Appraisal of Sustainability and a Habitats Regulation Ministers in March. Assessment, both of which consider the potential environmental impacts of the Thames Tunnel. The Ofwat itself is currently reviewing the process of public consultation closes on 22 February and the price setting as part of the Future Price Limits project. documents can be found on DEFRA’s website at: This project will look at the effects of the regulatory cycles on all stakeholders, including those in the supply http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/waste-water/ index.htm chain.
Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Wood Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent discussions she has had with (a) Thames Water, (b) Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment Agency and (c) Ofwat on the (i) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans design, (ii) regulatory process and (iii) planning process to implement the provisions of the EU Illegal Timber for the construction of a second Thames tunnel. [35960] (Due Diligence) Regulation. [35755] 297W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 298W
Mr Paice: In accordance with the provisions of Charles Hendry: DECC does not hold the information Regulation, we will implement the EU Illegal Timber requested. To meet its principal duty to protect the (Due Diligence) Regulation by 3 March 2013. Over the interests of consumers, Ofgem collects relevant information next 18 months, detailed implementing regulations must on prepayment meter customers but I understand it be agreed between the European Commission and member does not have the specific data requested. states. This timeline was agreed to allow both governments Under their supply licence, energy suppliers must not and the timber industry across member states sufficient require a customer to pay a security deposit if it is time to prepare for the entry into force of the Regulation. unreasonable in all the circumstances of the case. The licence also requires that a security deposit must not exceed a reasonable amount. Customers opting to pay by prepayment meter must not be required to pay a ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE deposit.
Departmental Procurement Electricity: Wind Power
Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what single tender contracts his and Climate Change what contribution energy from Department has awarded since his appointment; and wind power generation made to the electricity supply what the monetary value is of each contract above the during December 2010. [36290] EU public procurement threshold. [36182] Charles Hendry: DECC publishes data on electricity Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and generation from all sources, including wind power, on a Climate Change has let the following contracts using quarterly basis. Figures for the last quarter of 2010, the Single Tender Procedure with only the last one listed which will show the proportion of electrical energy being in excess of the EU public procurement threshold. supplied by all UK wind generation, will be published As a Research and Development project it is exempt in March. DECC’s latest quarterly figures show that in from the full EU Procurement Rules; the monetary Q3 2010 all UK wind farms contributed 3.5% of UK value of the project is £210,000. electricity generation. Below EU threshold Just under half of all UK wind capacity is operationally 1. Aggregating, presenting and valuing the impacts of greenhouse metered by national grid to assist in balancing the gas (GHG) emissions system. From this data, in December 2010, operationally 2. National Energy Efficiency Database (NEED) data loading metered wind generation contributed 1.1% of electrical services energy supplied through the national grid. Given that 3. Provision of database containing information on retail less than half of total UK wind capacity is operationally filling stations metered, this percentage will significantly under-state 4. Stakeholder Engagement Policy/Project Team Support Package DECC’s final figure for wind’s share of all generation in 5. DECC Emergency Response Exercise Programme Q4 2010, due to be published on 31 March 2011. 6. Contribution to three IEA Annexes on Heat Pumps 7. International Climate Change Consultant Energy: Housing 8. Electronic Radar Tool to Support Permitted Development for Micro/Small Wind Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy 9. Technical advisory, assessment and verification services—ETF and Climate Change what steps his Department is Offshore Wind Grants scheme taking to increase the energy efficiency of (a) social 10. National Energy Efficiency Database (NEED) Valuation rented, (b) housing association and (c) private rented Office Agency Property Data Analysis homes; and if he will make a statement. [33597] 11. DECC contribution to 2nd year of EST Heat Pump Field Trials Gregory Barker: The Green Deal has the potential to 12. Update of renewable heat model increase the energy efficiency of homes across all housing 13. UK Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Inventory Improvement sectors. It will enable a range of innovative energy Programme. efficiency finance packages for landlords and tenants alike. Electricity: Meters The social housing sector, including housing associations, has made the biggest gains in energy efficiency in recent Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy years. Further to this, the sector will be able to benefit and Climate Change (1) what information his Department from the Green Deal and associated obligation on holds on the number of households that have been energy companies. prevented from changing from paying their electricity The private rented sector will also be able to take costs by pre-payment meter to an alternative means of advantage of the Green Deal and future obligation on payment as a result of deposit charges; [35968] energy companies. In addition, we are seeking powers in (2) what information his Department holds on the the forthcoming Energy Bill that, from 2015, could number of families that have paid deposit charges in require landlords to make reasonable energy efficiency order to change the payment of their electricity costs improvements to their properties. These powers will from a pre-payment meter to an alternative means of only be used if we do not see voluntary improvements payment. [35969] under the forthcoming Green Deal. 299W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 300W
Energy: Regulation Number of grants Value of grants (£) Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy 2005 0 0 and Climate Change what recent representations he has 2006 19 22,800 received from Ofgem on the extent of their powers to 2007 202 343,584 regulate tariffs and prices in the domestic energy supply 2008 255 1,530,012 sector. [35740] 2009 374 3,203,397 Total 850 5,099,793 Charles Hendry: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has not received any such representations. Ofgem’s principal duty is to protect the interests of consumers and it has wide discretion to propose Methane: Natural Gas modifications to the licences of energy companies to achieve this. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he has made a Fuel Oil: Prices recent assessment of the (a) legislative, (b) regulatory and (c) guidance framework for the safe exploration of Mr Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State (i) coalbed methane and (ii) shale gas as an energy for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he source. [34955] has made of the effects of recent changes in the price of heating oil on elderly and vulnerable families in rural Chris Grayling: I have been asked to reply. areas. [33883] HSE has regulatory responsibility for the safety of Gregory Barker: Government acknowledge that heating these activities and so as Minister responsible for Health oil prices have risen and will lead to higher energy bills and Safety I am providing a response to this question. for households that use it. Heating oil is a seasonal For all UK oil and gas exploration and development product, and its prices vary over the course of the year. activities, including coal bed methane and shale gas, there is a comprehensive regulatory framework to ensure The Government are committed to helping those that operations are properly licensed and controlled. households that are in fuel poverty. We recognise the This includes regulations administered by the Health need to help more of the most vulnerable to keep their and Safety Executive, who deal with the process safety homes warm at an affordable cost. aspects of this work. These include the Offshore Installations From April 2011, the Warm Home Discount policy and Wells (Design and Construction, etc) Regulations will require energy suppliers to provide financial support 1996 (DCR), which are concerned with the integrity of with energy bills to more of the most vulnerable and the well for its full lifecycle. The Health and Safety fuel poor households. The total level of support under Executive also gives advice to industry on how to comply the scheme will be up to £250 million in 2011-12 rising with these safety regulations. Legislation, regulatory to up to £310 million in 2014-15. We launched a consultation inspection programmes and guidance are kept under on the Warm Home Discount on 2 December which review and adapted where necessary to take account of focuses on the detailed structure of the support scheme, new technologies and industry practices, and new knowledge including who should be eligible for assistance and how on hazards and risks. they will be targeted. From 2013, support for heating and insulation for the most vulnerable will be delivered through the Green Nuclear Power Deal for energy efficiency and a new supplier obligation on energy companies. The Green Deal is a key element Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for of our policy to improve household energy efficiency. It Energy and Climate Change with reference to the will help protect people against price rises through contribution by the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of greater energy saving, with special support for the most State (PUSS) to House of Lords Grand Committee, vulnerable. Official Report, column GC176, on the draft National Heating Policy Statement for Nuclear Generation, when the review of nuclear policy referred to was commissioned; Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for if he will publish the report of the review; which body Energy and Climate Change how many new ground is assisting the PUSS in his conduct of the review; source heat exchange pumps were commissioned in (a) whether the review was put out for tender; whether any 2005, (b) 2006, (c) 2007, (d) 2008 and (e) 2009. upper limit was placed on the cost of conducting the [33988] review; and when he expects to receive the report of the review. [36274] Gregory Barker: The Department does not hold information on the overall number of ground-source Charles Hendry: Security arrangements are kept under heat pumps (GSHP) fitted in the UK. These works are constant review as part of a continuous process to carried out by private contractors who have no obligation ensure existing arrangements are robust and effective. to inform the Government. I hope the hon. Member will understand that the Under the previous Government grant programme, need to ensure national security means that there are (Low Carbon Buildings Programme), the following numbers inevitably restrictions on what the Government can say of ground-source heat pumps grants were awarded for publicly about certain matters relating to various aspects properties between 2005-09. of the national security framework. 301W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 302W
Warm Front Scheme Department has published plain English guides to the Local Government Finance Settlement and to the Localism Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Bill. It has begun a review of over 1,000 pages of and Climate Change what recent assessment his cumbersome planning policy statements and guidance Department has made of the performance of Eaga plc with the aim of producing a single, concise document in managing the Warm Front scheme; and if he will setting out the Government’s priorities for the planning make a statement. [36172] system in England. We are also seeking to minimise the use of TLAs Gregory Barker: The Department has Key Performance (three letter abbreviations) in our communications. Indicators (KPIs) in place to monitor Eaga’s performance in managing Warm Front delivery. Regular meetings Departmental Official Hospitality are held at which performance against KPIs is reviewed. These reviews have shown that over the past three years Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Eaga have largely met their KPIs. In addition, the Communities and Local Government how many meals Department has engaged WYG, independent consultants at venues outside his Department have been provided and quality assessors, to audit Eaga’s performance. from the public purse for (a) each Minister in his Findings from these reviews are published on the DECC Department and (b) guests of his Department since website: 6 May 2010. [30699] http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/ consumers/fuel_poverty/warm_front/vfm/vfm.aspx Robert Neill: No taxpayers’ money has been spent on such items since 6 May. In comparison, £2,400 was spent on meals at venues outside the Department at events involving DCLG COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Ministers in the final two years of the previous Big Society Initiative Administration. Departmental Public Expenditure Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what role he expects civic societies to play as potential capacity builders in Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his support of the Big Society initiative. [35549] Department has spent on film production including the Andrew Stunell: The Government’s Big Society agenda filming of speeches since May 2010. [34301] envisages a significantly enhanced role for civil society, including the voluntary, community .and social enterprise Robert Neill: All film production has been carried out sectors, in helping local people and organisations to internally by staff in the Department’s Communications take more power and responsibility over their lives and Directorate and no spend has been made with any neighbourhoods. As part of this, civic societies can play external production company. an essential voluntary role in helping individuals to take The zero spend with external production companies action to improve the quality of their life through the since May 2010 compares with spend of £42,742 in place where they live. 2008-09 and £144,660.50 in 2009-10. They will have an important role to play in helping communities develop skills, in designing and delivering Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for services, and encouraging communities to take advantage Communities and Local Government how much his of far-reaching new rights contained in the Localism Department has spent on wine since May 2010. [34486] Bill, such as the Right to Buy community assets and the Right to Challenge the way public services are run. Robert Neill: Since May 2010 the Department has spent £796.55 on wine through its facilities management In recognition of this role, my Department has provided supplier. a transitional grant to Civic Voice, the national umbrella organisation for civic societies. This transitional grant Wine was supplied in connection with official functions will support Civic Voice to help bridge the gap to and the expenditure has been incurred in accordance self-funding to enable the movement build the momentum with the principles of Managing Public Money and the of support required to put it onto a self-reliant and Treasury handbook on Regularity and Propriety. sustainable footing and support the Government’s goal To assist the hon. Member to place this in context of building a Big Society. records are only available from December 2008 but for the periods December 2008 to March 2009 the Department Departmental Communications spent £1,584.85 and from April 2009 until March 2010 spent £3,932.80 on wine at official functions. Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps he has Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for taken to reduce jargon and promote plain English in Communities and Local Government how much his departmental communications. [35794] Department has spent on newspapers and magazines since May 2010. [34526] Robert Neill: The use of clear language is essential if people are to understand and influence Government Robert Neill: Departmental records show that the policy. My Department aims to use straightforward Department has spent £67,435 on newspapers and language as a matter of course. In recent months, the magazines with its preferred suppliers since May 2010. 303W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 304W
Since May 2010, the Department has consolidated Robert Neill: Since May 2010, no new fixed-term the seven separate sets of national newspapers previously appointments of any staff, including senior civil servants, received by the ministerial and special adviser offices to have been made. a single shared set of papers, delivering over £15,000 of ongoing revenue savings. Departmental Temporary Employment In addition, the Department’s Communications Directorate has undertaken a review that has led to a Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for reduction in the number of magazines and journals it Communities and Local Government what the (a) total subscribes to and a move to a single supplier, realising salary cost and (b) average salary is of staff employed further annual savings of approximately £6,000. on fixed-term contracts in his Department. [34528] For the last two financial years the Department spent the following: Robert Neill: The total salary and average salary costs 2008-09: £136,892 of staff employed on fixed-term contracts, as at 31 2009-10: £113,308. December 2010, in the Department for Communities and Local Government are as follows: Total salary costs: £1,138,313 Departmental Responsibilities Number of staff: 40 Average (mean) salary: £28,458. Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government which new (a) Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for units and (b) teams have been established in his Department Communities and Local Government how many staff since May 2010; and what the (i) name, (ii) purpose, (iii) are employed on fixed-term contracts in his Department; staffing level and (iv) annual running cost of each is. and what their job titles are. [34529] [34323]
Robert Neill: Two new teams have been established Robert Neill: As at 31 December 2010 the Department since 1 May 2010. for Communities and Local Government employed 40 staff (38.8 FTE) on fixed-term contracts. A breakdown The Digital Delivery and Transparency team delivers of their job titles is detailed as follows: the corporate transparency action plan via the Public Data and Transparency programme board, and develops 24 Administrative Officers policy on local government transparency, local spending One Chief Fire & Rescue Adviser reports and digital delivery agenda. There were 8.2 (full Three Departmental Advisers (0.8 FTE) time equivalent) staff in post in this team at the end of Five Executive and Higher Executive Officers December. The annual running costs over the full Seven Legal and Statistical Officers 12 months is next year forecast to be £554,000. Online transparency has the potential to deliver real and tangible As I outlined in my answer to the hon. Member in saving to the public purse. relation to PQ 34300, these appointments and contracts were made during the last administration. The London Team has ownership of London reforms generally including elements within the Localism Bill and management of London-inspired Private Bills. It is Faithwise Ltd: Contracts the central point of co-ordination for relationships with the GLA, London councils and other agencies where Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for necessary, and it also holds responsibility for DCLG’s Communities and Local Government if he will place in locally focussed business in London. There were 6.4 the Library a copy of his Department’s consultancy (full time equivalent) staff in post in this team at the end contract with Faithwise Ltd. [20115] of December. The annual running costs over the full 12 months is next year forecast to be £382,000. Its creation should be taken in the context of the abolition Robert Neill: A copy of the original contract, and of of the Government Office for London, which will its extension to 1 January 2010, has been placed in the decentralise power and save taxpayers’ money. Library of the House. The contract was further extended by agreement until 31 March 2010. DCLG is currently undergoing a major restructuring exercise to focus on meeting the needs of the new government. This restructuring as well the creation of Fire Services the new teams described above has not involved the recruitment of any new staff to the civil service and Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State therefore no overall addition to public cost. for Communities and Local Government how many fire stations have closed in the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. [36108] Departmental Senior Civil Servants Robert Neill: Numbers of fire station closures are not Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for held centrally. However total numbers of fire stations Communities and Local Government what the most are collected for each fire and rescue authority annually. recent previous employment was of senior staff employed The latest available figures show that the total number on fixed-term contracts in his Department since May of fire stations in England on 31 March 2010 was 1,433, 2010. [34300] unchanged from 2009. 305W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 306W
Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Fires, non-fire incidents and false fire alarms attended by Fire and for Communities and Local Government if he will Rescue Services in England, 2009-101 review the proposed timetable for savings to be made Number of Percentage of by local fire services; and if he will make a statement. incidents grand total [36109] Grand total 669,185 100
Robert Neill: We have back-loaded the largest savings Total Fires 241,533 36 in formula grant to the latter years in order to give fire and rescue authorities time to make the necessary changes Special Service (non-fire 142,527 21 without affecting the quality and breadth of services incidents) they provide to their communities. Overall, single purpose fire and rescue authorities will see a reduction in their revenue spending power, taking into account grants Fire false alarms 285,125 43 from central Government and council tax of 2.2% in Fire false alarm types: 2011-12 and 0.5% in 2012-13. Automatic fire alarms (due 193,394 29 to apparatus2) The setting of budgets and the delivery of fire services Good intent3 79,304 12 are a local matter, determined by individual fire and Malicious4 12,427 2 rescue authorities. 1 Provisional. 2 Due to Apparatus—call was initiated by fire alarm and/or firefighting equipment operating (including accidental initiation of alarm apparatus Fire Services: Canvey Island by a person). 3 Good Intent—call was made in good faith in the belief that the fire and rescue service was needed to attend a fire. Rebecca Harris: To ask the Secretary of State for 4 Malicious—a report of an incident is received by a control centre Communities and Local Government if he will assess which is believed to have been made with malicious intent or with intent to cause a nuisance and where it is considered that no legitimate the effectiveness of the planned reconfiguration of fire incident exists. services on Canvey Island. [35947] Source: Fire and Rescue Incident Statistics Databases, DCLG Robert Neill: Operational decisions are taken by Fire Services: Standards individual fire and rescue authorities as part of the integrated risk management planning process. Rebecca Harris: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government are committed to enabling local Communities and Local Government if he will assess authorities and local communities to make appropriate the likely effects of an increase of (a) two minutes, (b) decisions at the local level. Fire and rescue authorities five minutes and (c) 10 minutes in the response time of are required by the fire and rescue service national the first fire appliance in the event of a fire at a top tier framework to have in place and maintain an integrated control of major hazards regulated site. [35946] risk management plan which reflects local need and sets out plans to tackle effectively both existing and potential Robert Neill: Emergency response is a matter for risks to communities. Each fire and rescue authority’s individual fire and rescue authorities under integrated plan enables that individual authority to decide how risk management planning, according to local requirements best to provide fire and rescue services, including prevention and circumstances. That will include a local assessment and protection as well as response, with resources being of the optimum response to fires at top tier control of allocated on the basis of their evaluation of risk and major accidents hazards (COMAH) sites. where the risks are greatest. It is a requirement that the Fire Services: West Midlands plan is subject to a full consultation with the local community before it is agreed and published, and if it is substantially revised. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he will Local requirements are thus determined by local assess the ability of West Midlands Fire Service to people according to local circumstances. maintain its standard of service to vulnerable communities For those reasons, it would be inappropriate for central after the outcome of the local government finance Government to make an assessment of any changes to settlement; and if he will make a statement. [36107] fire and rescue services on Canvey Island. Robert Neill: As the setting of budgets and the delivery of fire services are a local matter, determined by individual Fire Services: Hoaxes and False Alarms fire and rescue authorities, it would not be appropriate for central Government to assess west midlands service delivery. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what proportion Government: Assets of calls attended by fire services arose from false alarms from (a) automatic fire alarms and (b) other alarms in Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for the latest period for which figures are available. [36110] Communities and Local Government what plans he has for enabling a (a) community right to bid, (b) community Robert Neill: The latest statistics for (a) automatic right to know and (c) community right to buy in fire alarms (due to apparatus) and (b) other false connection with assets owned by central Government; alarms in England for 2009-101 are shown in the table. and if he will make a statement. [36014] 307W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 308W
Andrew Stunell: The community right to challenge http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ (sometimes referred to as the community right to bid) housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/homelessnessstatistics/ and the community right to buy (as “assets of community publicationshomelessness/ value”) are included in the Localism Bill. The community Data collected include the number of households right to challenge enables voluntary and community accepted by local housing authorities as eligible for bodies, parish councils and local authority employees assistance, unintentionally homeless and in priority need, to express an interest in running a local authority and therefore owed a main homelessness duty (to ensure service, which may trigger a procurement exercise. We that suitable accommodation is available). If a settled will consider what other services the right may be home is not immediately available, the authority must extended to in due course. secure temporary accommodation until a settled home Many of the details of the community right to buy becomes available and this information is also collected. scheme will be set out in regulations, on which we will Information is also collected on rough sleeping. Since shortly be consulting. It will give communities new 1998, only councils in areas with a known, or suspected, powers to help them save local facilities threatened with rough sleeping problem were required to conduct an closure by allowing local community groups, parish official rough sleeper count—which meant that only councils and others to nominate sites that are of particular 70 councils submitted information to central Government. value to the community. We will be consulting on what Figures published in July 2010 showed that under this constitutes an asset of community value but it will previous method, on any given night there were 440 include property owned by central Government, because rough sleepers in England. However, the coalition the Bill provides that the scheme applies to the Crown. Government wanted a more complete measure of rough When a listed site comes up for sale, community groups sleeping and when the remaining 256 councils provided will have a window of opportunity before a sale can estimates of the scale of the problem in their areas, this take place, which they can use to prepare to bid for the added a further estimated 807 rough sleepers—taking site (eg by preparing a business case and raising funding). the national total to 1,247 rough sleepers on any given We envisage that the regulations will enable a local night. community group to enter a binding contract during Rough sleeping figures are published by the Department the window of opportunity, giving an advantage over on the DCLG website and are given by local authority other potential purchasers. in the table at the following link: We want communities to be able to use these new http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/xls/ rights effectively, and will shortly be consulting on what 1648099.xls support may be needed to ensure this is the case. Under new guidance all councils across England will We are working towards making information on the now provide information on rough sleeping. This move central Government estate available to local people and follows consultation with homelessness charities and communities, which will provide communities with councils and is aimed at getting a clearer picture of the information on public land so that they can hold land scale of the problem in each area so more targeted owners to account. The reform will enable communities support can be provided to some of the most vulnerable to have greater influence in shaping the future of their in society. areas. Housing: Construction Homelessness Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Communities and Local Government how many units and Local Government what his most recent estimate is were built as part of each publicly-funded affordable of the number of people who are homeless in (a) housing scheme in Reading West constituency in each England, (b) Hertfordshire and (c) St Albans constituency. of the last 13 years; and how many such units in each [36171] scheme are reserved for key workers. [35849]
Grant Shapps: Tables have been placed in the Library Andrew Stunell: The following table shows the number of the House providing the number of households of new build affordable homes delivered through the accepted as owed the main homelessness duty during Homes and Communities Agency’s National Affordable the July to September quarter 2010, the number of Housing Programme in the Reading local authority households in temporary accommodation at the end of area for each of the last 13 years and of these those September 2010 and rough sleeping figures for 2010, by which were specifically targeted at key workers. This local authority and county in England. information is not collected by parliamentary constituency. The data are not collected at constituency level. St Albans constituency is made up of electoral wards in St National Affordable Housing Programme NAHP of which: key Albans and Three Rivers. (NAHP)1 worker initiative Information about local authorities’ discharge of their duties under homelessness legislation is collected on 1997-98 130 0 quarterly PIE returns. Summary information about English 1998-99 250 0 local housing authorities’ actions under the homelessness 1999-2000 60 0 legislation (part 7 of the Housing Act 1996) is collected 2000-01 60 0 at local authority level, and published by the Department 2001-02 120 0 in the quarterly Statistical Release on Statutory 2002-03 160 0 Homelessness, available both in the Library of the 2003-04 120 0 House and via the DCLG website: 2004-05 310 20 309W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 310W
Andrew Stunell: No such guidance has been issued by National Affordable Housing Programme NAHP of which: key the Department for Communities and Local Government. (NAHP)1 worker initiative Subject to parliamentary approval of the Localism Bill, communities will be given a right to challenge a local 2005-06 220 130 authority by expressing an interest in running any service 2006-07 140 30 for which it is responsible. The Department for 2007-08 360 70 Communities and Local Government will be working 2008-09 170 10 closely with local authorities and the voluntary and 2009-10 80 0 community sector to determine what guidance may be 1 Includes homes built for social rented and affordable home ownership. necessary to support the Community Right to Challenge. Note: Figures are rounded to the nearest 10 homes. Source: Local Government: Redundancy Homes and Communities Agency The National Affordable Housing Programme provided Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for funding for affordable home ownership schemes targeted Communities and Local Government whether he has at first time buyers who met the eligibility criteria, i.e. made an estimate of the number of local council household income up to £60,000 and unable to buy on employees who will be made redundant as a result of the open market. Between 2004-05 and 2008-09 there the reductions in funding for local authorities in the were specific schemes targeted towards assisting key first year of the comprehensive spending review period. workers into home ownership. From 2008-09 this specific [36103] ring fence was removed with all schemes being open to all first time buyers who met the eligibility criteria. Robert Neill: It is for individual councils to make Not all affordable housing is provided through new local decisions about how their workforces are organised build completions as supply can also come from the and managed to ensure it can deliver for local taxpayers, acquisition and refurbishment of private sector homes. within the resources they have available. Decisions about In 2009-10, for example, a total of 150 affordable homes managing workforce reductions in local government are were provided in Reading through new build, acquisition rightfully for individual councils to make as employers. and refurbishment. Local Government: Standards Housing: Homelessness Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Communities and Local Government what steps he and Local Government how many households were plans to take to enable local authorities to retain a local placed in private rented accommodation under the standards committee if they wish to do so. [35032] prevention and relief of homelessness provisions (a) in England and Wales and (b) in each English local Robert Neill [holding answer 20 January 2011]: The authority area in (i) 2009-10 and (ii) the first two Localism Bill currently before Parliament includes provision quarters of 2010-11. [35815] that local authorities must maintain high standards of conduct by local authority members and co-opted members. Grant Shapps: In 2009-10, 50,720 households in England were placed in private rented accommodation by local It is for local authorities to determine for themselves authorities and partner organisations through their how best to maintain high standards of conduct and prevention and relief activities outside of the statutory local authorities will be free, if they so wish, to establish homelessness framework. This includes activities involving standards committees. landlord incentive schemes or activities without, such Members will be required to continue to register and as where a local authority has built a relationship with a declare personal interests and will not be allowed to use landlord or letting agent which enables the authority to their position improperly for personal gain. The refer households on benefit direct or on a specific Government intend that wilful failure to comply with accreditation scheme. these requirements will constitute a criminal offence. A table has been placed in the Library of the House providing the information for all local authorities. Mayors Figures relating to the first two quarters of 2010-11 will not be available until the ‘Homelessness Prevention Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for and Relief: England 2010-11’ release is published later Communities and Local Government (1) if he will in the year. commission an independent review of the effectiveness DCLG only holds figures for England. Figures for of elected mayors; and if he will make a statement; Wales are the responsibility of the Welsh Assembly [35899] Government. (2) if he will commission an independent review of the effectiveness of the Leader and Cabinet model of Local Government Services local authorities; and if he will make a statement; [35900] Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) if he will commission an independent review of Communities and Local Government what guidance the effectiveness of the committee system for running his Department has issued to communities that wish to local authorities; and if he will make a statement. take over services operated by local authorities. [36137] [35901] 311W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 312W
Robert Neill: We have no plans to commission such Clark) to my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate independent reviews. and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) on 17 January A number of research papers and reviews on council 2011, Official Report, column 534. governance models have already been published, and regard can be had to these when decisions on a council’s Referendum: Neighbourhood Planning future governance arrangements are taken. Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Mobility: Expenditure Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of the cost of holding a referendum related Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for to neighbourhood planning; and if he will make a Communities and Local Government what estimate his statement. [36552] Department has made of less expenditure by local authorities on meeting the mobility needs of under-65s Robert Neill: We will be publishing an impact assessment living in residential care in the latest period for which on our neighbourhood plan proposals in due course figures are available. [35672] which will outline how the changes will increase sustainable development and deliver monetised benefits to local Andrew Stunell: The information requested is not authorities and developers. held centrally. Solar Power: Planning Permission Multiple Occupation: Crime Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for State for Communities and Local Government if he Communities and Local Government pursuant to the will discuss with the Secretary of State for Energy and answer of 5 July 2010, Official Report, column 89W, on Climate Change changes to planning guidance for the multiple occupation: licensing, if he will assess the cost purposes of preventing building that would have the of collecting information from local authorities on how effect of blocking light from reaching photovoltaic cell many landlords have been prosecuted under legislative arrays fitted to existing properties; and if he will make provisions governing the operation of houses in a statement. [36002] multiple occupation. [35211] Robert Neill: National planning policy on climate Andrew Stunell: As stated in my answer of 5 July change already encourages planning authorities to consider 2010, Official Report, column 89W, information about the impact of new building on existing properties so as how many landlords have been prosecuted under the to avoid prejudicing their renewable energy supply. We legislative provisions governing the operation of houses are working with the Department for Energy and Climate in multiple occupation is not held centrally.The Department Change and other Departments on the new national has no plans to begin collecting this information or to planning policy framework. This will cover all forms of assess the cost of collection. development and set out the Government’s national The Government remain committed to the goal of economic, environmental and social priorities, including reducing the burdens of data reporting requirements on climate change. local government. Voluntary Organisations: Barnsley Playgrounds: Finance Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government what discussions for Communities and Local Government what funding he has had with Barnsley metropolitan borough council his Department provides to local authorities for the on (a) local authority funding for the voluntary sector purposes of maintaining playgrounds; and if he will in Barnsley East constituency and (b) implementation make a statement. [36111] of the Government’s Big Society initiative. [36102]
Robert Neill: Formula grant is an unhypothecated Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and block grant i.e. authorities are free to spend it on any Local Government has had no direct discussions with service. For this reason, and due to the method of Barnsley metropolitan council on funding for the voluntary calculating formula grant, particularly floor damping, sector. it is not possible to say how much grant has been We are supporting Barnsley to develop a small area provided for any particular service, including maintaining budget and Local Integrated Services approach in playgrounds. Thurnscoe, which will give residents more influence and Recreation Spaces control over their local public services. This is part of the Government’s work to develop Community Budgets. Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for In December 2010 the Kendray Initiative, based in Communities and Local Government what plans he Barnsley, was awarded the Prime Minister’s Big Society has to provide protection for urban green spaces. Award in recognition of their work to transform the [34315] local community. An officer from Barnsley took part in a roundtable Robert Neill: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer discussion on the development and implementation of given by the Minister for Decentralisation, my right decentralisation in Leeds on 20 December 2010. This hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg was an event for councils across Yorkshire and Humberside. 313W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 314W
DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Mr Maude: The “Civil Service Management Code” requires civil servants to declare to their department Departmental Public Appointments any relevant interests which they would be able to further as a result of their official duties. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister Relevant interests for civil servants who are members (1) how many (a) women and (b) men he has appointed of departmental management boards are available as to public duties since May 2010; [35408] part of a Department’s annual report and accounts. (2) what public appointments he has made since his appointment; and to what payments each person so Departmental Working Conditions appointed is entitled. [35430] Mike Freer: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet The Deputy Prime Minister: I have made 14 unpaid Office what his Department’s policy is on (a) the space public appointments (including one joint appointment provided per employee, (b) home working and (c) hot with the Prime Minister) since May 2010. Details of desking; how many employees it has on average per these appointments can be found on desk; and how much space on average there is per http://www.dpm.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news employee. [34585] and http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is working towards achieving a space allocation per employee (full-time equivalent) of 10 sq m. The Cabinet Office supports measures to improve work/life balance, including flexible WOMEN AND EQUALITIES working. Flexible working incorporates a wide variety of working patterns. Home working policies and the Departmental Procurement provision of access to communications while staff are working at home support this commitment. Hot desking Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for Women and is not currently adopted formally across the Department Equalities what single tender contracts the Government although as part of an ongoing estate rationalisation Equalities Office has awarded since her appointment; programme this is expected to be rolled out more widely. and what the monetary value is of each contract above Information on the number of employees on average the EU public procurement threshold. [36195] per desk is not held but information on office space utilisation in the Cabinet Office (including on space per Lynne Featherstone: The following single tender contracts full-time equivalent) is available in the annual State of have been awarded by the Government Equalities Office the Estate Reports since 12 May 2010: http://www.ogc.gov.uk/ efficiency_documents_better_asset_management.asp Supplier Nature of contract awarded
Citizen’s Advice Bureau 1 Production of guides, distribution Lone Parents and associated training to support the implementation of the Equality Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Act 2010 1 Office what proportion of families with children were British Chambers of Commerce — headed by a single parent in each (a) local authority 1 Equality and Diversity Forum — area and (b) constituency in each year for which figures Queen’s Counsel Legal Advice are available. [35797] 1 Indicates a brace. The monetary value of the contracts was below the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the EU public procurement threshold. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Departmental Public Appointments Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for Women have been asked to reply to your request to ask the Minister for and Equalities how many (a) women and (b) men have the Cabinet Office what proportion of families with children were been appointed to public duties by the Government headed by a single parent in each (a) local authority area and (b) Equalities Office since May 2010. [35403] constituency in each year for which figures are available. (35797) The number and type of families in areas of the UK can be Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office estimated using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Data are has made no public appointments since May 2010. available for 2004 to 2009. As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject to a margin of uncertainty which increases as the size of the geography presented becomes smaller. As a result year on year fluctuations do not necessarily represent CABINET OFFICE a significant change in the true estimate. Lone parent families with at least one dependent child as a Civil Servants: Business Interests percentage of all families with at least one dependent child are shown in the attached tables. A lone parent family is a lone parent living with his or her never-married children, providing that these Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet children have no partners or children of their own living with Office whether his Department publishes a register of them. Dependent children are children living with their parent(s) interests for the Civil Service. [36145] aged under 16, or aged 16 to 18 in full-time education. 315W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 316W
Copies of Tables 1-3 have been placed in the House of Commons Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. Library. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) published, Table 1 shows the data by local authority for 2004 to 2009; as part of the “Economic and Fiscal Outlook” on Table 2 shows the data for 2004 to 2008 based on 2005 parliamentary 29 November 2010, projections for general government constituency boundaries; and Table 3 shows the data for 2009 based on 2010 parliamentary constituency boundaries. Tables 2 employment to 2015-16, which can be found at: and 3 are not directly comparable due to boundary changes. http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/d/ econ_fiscal_outlook_291110.pdf NDPBs: Finance The OBR has not published forecasts for individual age groups. It will be for individual employers to determine Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet the exact work force implications of their settlements. Office what the budget is of each non-departmental public body in the current financial year. [36016]
Mr Maude: Information on the size, spend and BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Government funding of the non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs) sector is published in the annual Cabinet Apprentices: Swindon Office publication “Public Bodies”. The latest published data show that as at 31 March 2009 there were 766 Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for NDPBs. These spent over £46 billion, of which over Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward £38 billion was directly funded by the Government. proposals to assist employers to take on apprentices in Data for 2010 will be published shortly. More detailed North Swindon constituency. [36139] information is published in Departments’ reports on the NDPBs which they sponsor and in individual bodies’ Mr Hayes: We are committed to expanding the annual reports and accounts. apprenticeship programme nationally and we are determined to make it easier for employers of all sizes Non-departmental Public Bodies and in all regions to take on apprentices. In England, we have increased funding for apprenticeships to over Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office £1.4 billion in the 2011-12 financial year to train over whether as part of its review of non-departmental 300,000 apprentices (at all ages). public bodies, he plans to publish details on how the As part of National Apprenticeship Week, the National Cabinet Office’s tests have been applied to all public Apprenticeship Service (NAS) are supporting the Plan bodies that are still under review. [35150] 500* initiative, which seeks to improve employer engagement across Swindon. As part of this initiative they are Mr Maude: I plan to release an update to my written supporting the Swindon business show to encourage ministerial statement of 14 October 2010, Official Report, employers to take on apprentices, and making some 150 column 26WS, in due course. apprenticeship vacancies available to young people in the area who are not in education, employment or Public Bodies training. NAS are also working with Business Link to promote a ‘Meet the Apprentice’ event and working Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet with the local Apprenticeship Training Association (South Office what criteria apply in connection with his West Apprenticeship Company (SWAC) to assist local Department’s review of public bodies. [35467] employers to take on apprentices in the Swindon area.
Mr Maude: The coalition Government are committed Driving Instruction: Qualifications to increasing the accountability of public bodies, and this involves reducing their number and their cost to the Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, taxpayer. Innovation and Skills how many professional and career To take this work forward, Cabinet Office and HM development loans were made to students resident in Treasury worked closely with Departments to look at each local authority area to facilitate study for national all public bodies to make decisions about whether the vocational qualifications or other qualifications to obtain functions they carry out should continue. Where it was registration on the Approved Driving Instructor Register decided that a function should continue, we applied in each of the last five years. [35384] three tests in order to assess whether it should continue to be carried out by a pubic body: Mr Willetts [holding answer 24 January 2011]: The does that body perform a technical function? Department does not hold specific information in relation does it need to be politically impartial? to the breakdown of Professional and Career Development does it act independently to establish facts? Loans (PCDL) per local authority area, or the type of qualification undertaken with a PCDL to achieve an Public Sector: Redundancy approved driving instructor qualification. Current available data over the last five years, including take-up in Scotland, Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Minister for the illustrate that around 900 loans were accessed in pursuit Cabinet Office if he will estimate the proportion of of driving instructor courses. This is broken down by those made redundant in the public sector during the calendar years as: comprehensive spending review period who will be 2006: 554; aged 50 or over at the time of being made redundant; 2007: 191; and if he will make a statement. [35145] 2008: 42; 317W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 318W
2009: 37; and The Government also values greatly the work of 2010: 55. special constables and is looking at a range of ways in There are no specific national vocational qualifications which to encourage more people to volunteer as special or other qualifications which lead to registration on the constables. We encourage employers to take on people Approved Driving Instructor Register. Toregister, applicants who are also involved in supporting and protecting must pass the Approved Driving Instructor (ADI) exams. their local community, as part of this Government’s big society agenda. Email: Spam Fashion
Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation and Skills whether his Department is taking Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has steps to tackle fraudulent spam emails claiming to be made of the main areas of (a) strength and (b) from the Student Loans Company. [36170] weakness of the fashion industry. [35624]
Mr Willetts: The Student Loans Company (SLC) is Mr Vaizey: I have been asked to reply. very concerned about its customers receiving fraudulent I have not made any specific assessment of the main emails. The SLC is proactive in alerting all its customers areas of strength and weakness of the fashion industry. to be vigilant when receiving emails requesting personal However, the British Fashion Council has recently published information which claim to be from the SLC. This the Value of Fashion report which shows that fashion activity is known as phishing. makes a significant contribution to the UK economy As well as alerting customers to phishing activity on and confirms British fashion’s status as one of our most their website, the SLC has issued press releases in an important creative industries. attempt to heighten awareness and encourage vigilance. Potential opportunities and barriers to growth in this SLC encourage customers to forward all phishing sector will be considered as part of the digital and emails to them so that they can arrange the closure of creative industries growth review. the sites. This is typically achieved within 24 hours. Higher Education: Admissions Since July 2010, the SLC has taken action that led to 62 phishing sites being closed down. Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many (a) successful and (b) Employment: Emergency Services unsuccessful applicants to university from (i) Hastings and Rye constituency, (ii) Hastings borough council Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for area, (iii) East Sussex, (iv) the south east and (v) England Business, Innovation and Skills if he will introduce were from each socio-economic background in each of incentives to encourage employers to hire and retain the last five years. [35016] employees who also work (a) as retained duty system firefighters, (b) as special constables and (c) in other Mr Willetts: Data by socio-economic background roles in support of emergency services. [26536] are not available for each of the years requested. Therefore, applicants are split by participation of local areas (POLAR) Mr Davey: We do not provide specific incentives to quintiles. encourage the employment of retained duty firefighters, Applicants who were not accepted for entry can special constables and others in similar roles. The include: Government values greatly the contribution of firefighters individuals who did not receive any offer; employed on the retained duty system. An employers’ individuals who received an offer (conditional or unconditional) information toolkit and an employers’ recognition scheme but decided not to go to university; have been provided (in 2009 and 2010 respectively) to individuals who received a conditional offer and failed to meet support the Fire and Rescue Service in building links the specific conditions (e.g. they did not achieve certain grades); with the local business community and encouraging the and release of staff for the retained duty system. individuals who decided to withdraw from the UCAS system.
Accepted applicants to full-time undergraduate courses in UK institutions via UCAS by area background1, 2006/07 to 2010/11 POLAR2 Geographical area Area background quintile 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Hastings and Rye Disadvantaged — 181 209 219 249 234 constituency Other — 283 291 311 353 388 Total 464 500 530 602 622
Hastings borough Disadvantaged — 159 177 188 215 202 council Other — 218 224 252 282 315 Total 377 401 440 497 517
East Sussex Disadvantaged 1 276 278 336 376 363 319W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 320W
Accepted applicants to full-time undergraduate courses in UK institutions via UCAS by area background1, 2006/07 to 2010/11 POLAR2 Geographical area Area background quintile 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
2 511 545 617 658 654 Other 3 650 712 817 842 839 4 924 1,001 1,138 1,100 1,110 5 309 285 363 328 358 Unknown 18 22 14 16 36 Total 2,688 2,843 3,285 3,320 3,360
South East Disadvantaged 1 2,896 3,222 3,539 3,868 4,006 2 5,399 5,623 6,442 6,705 7,069 Other 3 9,228 9,988 11,159 11,813 11,829 4 13,116 14,030 15,228 15,765 16,271 5 14,776 15,656 16,902 17,582 18,310 Unknown 543 427 1,136 513 602 Total 45,958 48,946 54,406 56,246 58,087
England Disadvantaged 1 37,187 40,369 47,260 51,245 51,208 2 47,944 50,860 57,772 61,751 61,550 Other 3 56,708 60,511 67,378 71,903 71,700 4 69,329 73,595 79,765 84,091 83,995 5 73,445 77,537 83,769 86,553 87,343 Unknown 4,616 4,087 7,664 4,693 4,412 Total 289,229 306,959 343,608 360,236 360,208
Unplaced applicants to full-time undergraduate courses in UK institutions via UCAS by area background1 2006/07 to 2010/11 POLAR2 Geographical area Area background quintile 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Hastings and Rye Disadvantaged — 47 52 66 73 121 constituency Other — 73 80 90 143 175 Total 120 130 156 216 296
Hastings borough Disadvantaged — 36 46 60 60 103 council Other — 59 68 73 126 148 Total 95 114 133 186 251
East Sussex Disadvantaged 1 81 109 108 141 190 2 141 154 194 236 307 Other 3 188 199 199 300 346 4 241 245 279 328 398 5 75 79 65 100 113 Unknown 14 11 13 31 23 Total 740 797 858 1,136 1,377
South East Disadvantaged 1 888 928 1,116 1,350 1,828 2 1,410 1,549 1,789 2,201 2,946 Other 3 2,360 2,492 2,649 3,428 4,336 4 2,906 3,173 3,311 4,175 5,364 5 3,158 3,370 3,626 4,385 5,429 Unknown 113 109 328 179 265 Total 10,835 11,621 12,819 15,718 20,168
England Disadvantaged 1 9,791 10,738 12,429 15,986 22,999 2 11,919 12,655 14,460 17,947 25,182 321W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 322W
Unplaced applicants to full-time undergraduate courses in UK institutions via UCAS by area background1 2006/07 to 2010/11 POLAR2 Geographical area Area background quintile 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Other 3 13,288 14,054 15,200 19,443 26,059 4 15,299 16,152 17,250 21,733 28,774 5 17,619 18,549 19,749 24,683 30,805 Unknown 922 970 1,900 1,393 1,857 Total 68,838 73,118 80,988 101,185 135,676 1 For the purposes of their funding allocations, the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) treat entrants from the most disadvantaged 40% of neighbourhoods as ‘disadvantaged’ http://www.hefce.ac.uk/widen/fund/ HEFCE uses two different groupings of areas to define disadvantage which are based on the historic levels of participation or qualification in higher education by the local population: one based on the participation rates of young (19 and under) people in HE (which is used by HEFCE when looking at young full-time entrants); and one based on the proportion of adults in the area who hold HE qualifications (which is used by HEFCE when looking at part-time and mature full-time entrants). Because these tables include applicants and accepted applicants of all ages disadvantage is defined by the HE qualified adults measure. Note: Numbers for successful and unsuccessful applicants are too small to be split into five quintiles for constituency and local authority level. Therefore the data are split into those from areas classified as ‘disadvantaged’ or ‘other.’
Nick Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Southwark (Simon Hughes), the Government’s Advocate Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of for Access to Higher Education, has been invited to join the likely effects of the proposed national scholarship the group. programme on (a) universities which recruit higher We want a wide range of people to have the opportunity than average numbers of disadvantaged students and to benefit from the programme. Likely groups to be (b) the propensity of universities to recruit disadvantaged supported include disabled students, part-time students, students. [35733] mature-aged students, those who have been eligible for the pupil premium at school, or have received free Mr Willetts: The National Scholarship Programme school meals or whose family income means that they (NSP) will form part of a coherent package of help will be eligible to receive student maintenance grants. targeted on potential students from disadvantaged Government investment in the programme will reach backgrounds. All universities that want to charge a £150 million a year by 2014/15. Options could include a higher graduate contribution than the £6,000 threshold first free year for disadvantaged students who were on will be obliged to participate in the NSP. free school meals or a foundation year to attract young talented people into the professions. Such measures We have made it clear that those universities that could potentially help around 18,000 students in 2014/15. charge the most should make the most significant The number of students who can benefit from the new contribution towards assisting students from disadvantaged programme will depend on the final design which is backgrounds to access and succeed at university. currently being developed with advice from the expert Details of the NSP are still being finalised. Criteria panel. for the NSP are currently being developed through Microfinance advice from an expert panel, which includes the National Union of Students, the Higher Education Funding Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Council for England, Universities UK, Sutton Trust Innovation and Skills what recent assessment he has and others. made of the effectiveness of microfinance projects in supporting (a) small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and (b) SMEs led by women. [36235] Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the Mr Prisk: In June 2010 the Department for Business, number of students who will receive assistance from the Innovation and Skills published an action-orientated proposed National Scholarship Programme in each of summary of the national evaluation of Community the next four years; and what criteria he expects to Development Finance Institutions (which includes apply to assess eligibility for the fund. [36141] microfinance) for the sector. This set out information on the effectiveness of microfinance projects in supporting Mr Willetts: The National Scholarship Programme SMEs. The report did not break down the outcomes (NSP) will form part of a coherent package of help for the projects by gender but support for women is targeted on bright potential students from disadvantaged mainstreamed within the CDFI sector. backgrounds. All universities that want to charge a higher graduate contribution than the £6,000 threshold Postgraduate Education: Regional Development will be obliged to participate in the NSP. Agencies Details of the National Scholarship Programme are Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, still being finalised. Criteria for the NSP are currently Innovation and Skills which regional development agencies being developed through advice from an expert panel, have funded (a) wholly and (b) partially postgraduate which includes the National Union of Students, the courses in the last five years; what subject matter such Higher Education Funding Council for England, courses have covered; what the duration of study was Universities UK, Sutton Trust and others. My right for each such course; and if he will make a statement. hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old [34935] 323W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 324W
Mr Prisk: The following tables give the details, where available, of the postgraduate courses undertaken by members of RDA staff that have been funded, either wholly or partly, by the regional development agencies over the last five years.
2005/06 2006/07 Wholly Partially Wholly Partially RDA funded funded Courses Duration funded funded Courses Duration
AWM 0 0 1 1 CIPFA 1 year MSc Research Methods in 2 years Public Service (Part Funded)
EEDA 1 0 MBA 1 year 0 0 EMDA 1 0 Accountancy 3 years 2 0 Professional Diploma in 1 year (ACCA) Marketing Certificate in UK 1 year Planning Law (3 modules)
LDA NWDA 0 0 4 1 MSc Urban Regeneration 2 years and Management MSc Urban and Rural 2 years Regeneration MBA 3 years PG Diploma in Surveying 2.5 years MSc Information Systems 3 years (Part funded)
ONE 2 0 CIPS (Year 2) 2 years 7 1 ACCA Professional 5 years Qualification (2) MA Regional 2 years Certificate in 0.5 years Development Regeneration MSC Audit (Internal/ 1 year External) Management and Consultancy Professional Diploma in 1 year Marketing CIM 1 year MA European Union 2 years Studies Cultural and Heritage 2 years Tourism Development Scheme CIMA (Partially Funded) 3 years
SEEDA1 00 00 SWRDA2 0 2 MSc Planning 0 2 One module of MSc Practice and Regeneration and Research. Renewal. Module of One module of MA in MBA. Urban Regeneration
YF3 MA Social 2 years MA Regeneration and 1 year and Public Environment Policy MBA - 2 3 years MBA 2 years people MSc 1 year MSc Local and Regional 3 years Transport Economic Development Planning and Management 325W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 326W
2007/08 2008/09 Wholly Wholly Partially RDA funded Partially funded Courses Duration funded funded Courses Duration
AWM 4 0 MSc Urban 3 years 1 1 MA 2 years Regeneration Regeneration Research and Policy MSc 2 years MA Modern 2 years Environmental History (Part Management Funded) for Business Post Graduate 3 years Diploma in Personnel Management BSc 3 years Psychology
EEDA 2 0 L7 Certificate 1 year 1 1 Post Graduate 2 years in Leadership Diploma in Coaching Local and Regional Regeneration (Part funded) L7 Diploma in 1 year Masters in 2 years Leadership Town Planning
EMDA 3 1 CIM 1 year 6 0 CIM 1 year Postgraduate Professional Diploma in Diploma in Marketing Marketing CIPR 1 year CIM 1 year Diploma Postgraduate (Public Diploma in Relations) Marketing Postgraduate 1 year Postgraduate 2 years Certificate in Diploma in Management HR (CIPD) LLM Masters 3 years Postgraduate 18 months in European Certificate in Law (Part Management Funded) (3 people)
LDA NWDA 6 0 MSc Urban 2 years 3 0 MA 2 years Regeneration Leadership in and Sustainability Management MSc Urban 2 years MA 2 years Regeneration Regeneration and and Development Development MSc 2 years MBA 3 years Development Economics and Policy MA Planning 2 years MSc 2 years Commercial Property Development PG Certificate 1 year Local and Regional Economic Development
ONE 2 0 Diploma in 3 years 5 0 MA Human 2 years Management Resource Management 327W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 328W
2007/08 2008/09 Wholly Wholly Partially RDA funded Partially funded Courses Duration funded funded Courses Duration
Diploma in 1 year MA Local and 2 years Marketing Regional Government MA Human 2 years Resources MA Regional 2 years and Local Development IIA Certificate November in Internal 2008— to Audit and confirm Business Risk
SEEDA1 1 1 MA Strategic 1 year 0 1 MBA Human September Resources 2008—June 10 MSC Spatial planning - September 2007—August 2009 (Part funded)
SWRDA2 0 2 One module of 0 5 Postgraduate 1 year MSc Diploma in Regeneration Regional and Renewal. Economic Development. One module of Year 1 MBA MA in Urban modules for 2 Regeneration people. Year 2 of MA in Personnel Development. Module of MSc in Sustainable Development
YF3 MA Urban 2 years MA in Human 2 years Environment Resources Design Management MBA 2 years MA in 2 years Property appraisal and management MSc Urban 1 year MSc 2/3 years Regeneration Transport Planning and the Environment PHD 2.5 years MSc HRM 1 year
2009/2010 RDA Wholly Funded Partially Funded Courses Duration
AWM 2 0 MSc Real Estate Management 2 years MSc Spatial Planning 2 years
EEDA 1 1 Masters in Town Planning 2 years Advanced Diploma in Internal Auditing (Part Funded) 2 years
EMDA 0 2 CIM Professional Diploma in Marketing (Part Funded) 1 year Doctorate of Social Sciences (Evidence and evaluation) 3 years (Part Funded) 329W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 330W
2009/2010 RDA Wholly Funded Partially Funded Courses Duration
LDA NWDA 0 0 ONE 7 3 Diploma in Human Resource Management 2 years Post Graduate Studies in Urban and Regional 1 year Development CIMA 3 years (to complete February 2013) MSc Development Management 1.5 years Diploma in Destination Management 1 year Diploma in Destination Management 1 year Diploma in Destination Management 1 year MSc Corporate Communication (Partially Funded) 2 years LLB (Partially Funded) 4 years (to complete September 2013) Diploma in Management Accounting (Partially Funded) 1 year
SEEDA1 00
SWRDA2 0 4 Year 2 MBA modules for 2 people. MBA. Year 3 of MA in Personnel Development.
YF3 MA Architecture and Urbanism 2 years 1 The figures for SEEDA do not include full- or part- sponsorship by SEEDA of professional qualifications such as RICS, CIPD, CIPR, for which a first degree may not be essential. Such figures are not in any case readily available. 2 It has not been possible to provide details of the duration of study as these courses are completed by staff in their own time, using distance and flexible learning arrangements. 3 It has not been possible to identify % of costs (wholly/partially funded) in the time limit of the PQ. Note: Postgraduate courses pre-April 2007 are not recorded on our current HR management system, so data for these years may be incomplete. It would incur disproportionate cost to check records in our archives.
Student Loans Company tax year. Due to this time lag, it is possible for people to over-repay. However, all overpayments are refunded Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, with interest. Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the Since December 2009, in order to reduce the number number of payments taken in error by the Student of those who over-repay, borrowers nearing the end of Loans Company in the latest period for which figures their loan repayment term are notified by the SLC that are available; and if he will make a statement. [33420] they may opt out of the PAYE system, and complete their loan repayments by direct debit. Additionally, Mr Willetts: Statistics on the number of people being borrowers are advised to monitor their own repayments refunded repayments—regardless of whether these so they can calculate when they are likely to repay their repayments came before or after borrowers have repaid loan in full. their loans in full—are published in table 2(iii) of the Student Numbers Statistical First Release “Student Loans for Higher Education in England, Financial Year 2009-10”. It is Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, accessible on the Student Loans Company website at Innovation and Skills (1) how many students normally http://www.slc.co.uk/statistics/ resident in England were enrolled on full-time (a) newnationalstatistics2_page.html undergraduate degrees, (b) vocational sub-degrees and In financial year 2009-10, 27,800 borrowers were (c) foundation degrees on the most recent date for refunded such repayments. This figure includes a number which figures are available; [35695] of over-repayments taken after borrowers repaid their (2) how many students aged between 18 and 24 were loans in full which the Student Loans Company (SLC) enrolled on full-time (a) undergraduate degrees, (b) is in the process of estimating. I propose to write to the vocational sub-degrees and (c) foundation degrees on hon. Member with this information once the statistics the most recent date for which figures are available. are ready for publication. [35696] It is possible for borrowers to over-repay their student loans because of the loan collection process. After the Mr Willetts: The numbers of English-domiciled full-time end of each tax year, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs undergraduate enrolments at UK higher education (HMRC) notifies the Student Loans Company (SLC) institutions are shown by age group and level of study of loan deductions made by employers in the previous in Table 1. Figures are taken from the Higher Education 331W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 332W
Statistics Agency (HESA) Student Record and are provided approach to training agency workers when the new for the 2009/10 academic year. Figures for the 2010/11 workplace training provision is introduced in the next academic year will become available from HESA in academic year. January 2012. As part of the UK’s implementation of the agency The numbers of English-domiciled full-time workers directive, the Government will continue to look undergraduate enrolments at English further education for opportunities to improve agency workers access to colleges are shown by age group and level of study in training to enhance their career development and Table 2. Figures are taken from the Skills Funding employability. Agency Individualised Learning Record and are provided for the 2008/09 academic year. Figures for the 2009/10 academic year will become available later this year. Table 1: Full-time English-domiciled undergraduate enrolments by age JUSTICE group and level of study UK higher education institutions, academic year 2009/10 Courts: Closures Age group Level of 25 and Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for study Under 18 18-24 over Total Justice how much has been spent on improvements to First Degree 820 767,260 90,610 858,695 each court identified for closure under his recent proposals Foundation 160 25,810 14,265 40,230 in respect of the (a) building, (b) interior and (c) Degree facilities in the last 10 years. [35554] Other 320 33,935 26,780 61,035 Undergraduate1 Mr Djanogly: HMCS was created in April 2005 and 1 Includes students enrolled on Higher National Diplomas (HNDs), prior to this date, magistrates courts were the responsibility Higher National Certificates (HNCs), Diplomas and Certificates of of independent Magistrates Courts Committees and higher education, National Vocational Qualifications (NVQs) at the relevant local authorities were responsible for works, undergraduate level and other sub-degree courses. receiving an 80% capital grant from the former Department Note: Figures are based on a HESA standard registration population and for Constitutional Affairs. Information on improvement have been rounded up or down to the nearest five, so components may works before 2005 is therefore not available to the not sum to totals. Ministry of Justice. Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) Student Record Post-2005, for magistrates and county courts, due to the large amount of manual searching of records and data collation required, it would incur disproportionate Table 2: Full-time English-domiciled undergraduate enrolments by age group and level of study English further education colleges, academic costs to answer this question. year 2008/09 Age group Departmental Procurement Level of 25 and study Under 18 18-24 over Total Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice First 0 3,645 2,330 5,980 what single tender contracts his Department has awarded Degree since his appointment; and what the monetary value is Foundation 25 5,225 2,040 7,290 of each contract above the EU public procurement Degree threshold. [36190] Other 275 5,095 4,090 9,460 Undergraduate1 Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice has issued a 1 Includes students enrolled on Higher National Diplomas (HNDs), total of 51 single tender contracts from May 2010 to the Higher National Certificates (HNCs), Diplomas and Certificates of present date. Of these 51 single tender contracts two higher education and other sub-degree courses. have been above the EU public procurement threshold. Note: Figures have been rounded up or down to the nearest five, so components These are as follows: may not sum to totals. A contract with Tribal to provide guidance on the transfer of Source: staff from the Scottish Government to the Ministry of Justice Skills Funding Agency Individualised Learning Record (L05) with a value of £139,500. Temporary Employment :Career Progression A contract with TNS UK for the provision of data base access with a value of £116,769.
Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Firearms: Convictions for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward proposals to improve career progression for agency workers; and if he will make a statement. [35597] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people were convicted of offences Mr Davey: The Government recognise the importance relating to firearms in (a) 2008, (b) 2009 and (c) 2010. of the agency sector in the UK labour market and will [36066] continue to work with employers to raise awareness of the public skills system and to invest in training agency Mr Blunt: The number of persons found guilty at all workers. Agency workers are currently eligible for courts of firearms offences, England and Wales, 2008 Government funding for skills training if they have a and 2009 (latest available) can be viewed in the following contract of employment with the employment agency table. and are working for an employer client of that employment Court proceedings data for 2010 are planned for agency. The Government do not propose to alter this publication in the spring. 333W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 334W
Number of persons found guilty at all courts for firearms offences1, from Interlaw and Stonewall have presented to the England and Wales, 2008 and 20092,3 Judicial Diversity Forum, led by the Judicial Appointments Number Commission, on which the Ministry of Justice is 20084 2,050 represented. 2009 1,850 1 Includes the following: possession of firearms, firearm certificate related offences, and miscellaneous firearms offences. Legal Services Commission 2 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same how much funding the Legal Services Commission provided disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is from the Legal Aid budget for advice and representation the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most in private family law cases involving (a) ancillary relief severe. disputes and (b) children and family disputes where 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have domestic violence (i) was and (ii) was not present in been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by 2008-09; and if he will make a statement. [35713] the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are Mr Djanogly: It is not possible for the legal Services taken into account when those data are used. Commission to extract the information requested in the 4 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July, and August 2008. time available. I will write to the hon. Member when Source: this is available and place a copy of the letter in the Justice Statistics Analytical Services in the Ministry of Justice Libraries of the House.
Judicial Diversity Taskforce Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how much funding the Legal Services Commission provided Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice from the Legal Aid budget for legal help and representation when he expects the Judicial Diversity Taskforce to in debt cases where the client’s home (a) was and (b) report its findings; and if he will make a statement. was not at immediate risk in 2008-09; and if he will [35903] make a statement. [35714]
Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Judicial Diversity Taskforce, Mr Djanogly: The following table shows the net cash which is overseeing the delivery of the recommendations expenditure on debt cases in 2008-09 for Legal Help arising from the report of the Advisory Panel on Judicial and representation. The Legal Services Commission is Diversity, will be meeting in early spring to discuss and unable to provide a breakdown of expenditure on debt review progress on improving the diversity of the judiciary. cases for legal help into categories where the client’s It will be for the Taskforce to decide how and when to home is at risk and where it is not. report its findings. £ million Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Representation Legal help what recent representations he has received on diversity Home at risk 0.06 n/a [35904] in the Judiciary. Home not at risk 1.19 n/a Total 1.26 25.62 Mr Kenneth Clarke: My noble Friend, Lord McNally, who represents the Ministry of Justice on the Judicial Diversity Taskforce, and I, have met and corresponded with a range of people about judicial diversity including: National Offender Management Service the former Chair of the Advisory Panel on Judicial Diversity, Baroness Neuberger; the Lord Chief Justice Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if and other members of the senior judiciary; the former he will publish each item of (a) guidance and (b) Chair of the Judicial Appointments Commission; correspondence from (i) his Department and (ii) the representatives of the legal profession; and academics. National Offender Management Service to (A) prison governors and (B) others on the release of prisoners Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice under home detention curfew since January 2010. what recent discussions he has had with representatives [36212] of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community on judicial diversity. [35905] Mr Blunt: Guidance to prison governors on the operation of the home detention curfew (HDC) scheme is published Mr Kenneth Clarke: I have not received any on the Prison Service website and is contained in Prison representations from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and Service Order (PSO) 6700. This PSO was issued in 2000 transgender community on the issue of judicial diversity. and has since been amended by a number of prison However, I know that members of the Advisory service instructions (PSIs), also published on the website. Panel on Judicial Diversity met with representatives The PSO and PSIs may be accessed via: from both Stonewall and Interlaw in developing their http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/resourcecentre/psispsos/ final report. listpsos Ministry of Justice officials have also met with Since January 2010 three PSIs have been published representatives from both Stonewall and Interlaw to that deal with HDC: numbers 34, 39 and 55. There has discuss the report and its implementation. Representatives been no general correspondence with governors about 335W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 336W
HDC during this period and neither this Department (2) what the certified normal accommodation figures nor the National Offender Management Service (NOMS) are for (a) the prison estate and (b) each prison in the routinely publishes correspondence relating to private prison estate; [36261] individuals. (3) how many prisoners are accommodated in multiple-occupancy cells in each prison. [36264] Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will publish each item of (a) guidance and (b) Mr Blunt: The operational capacity and certified correspondence from (i) his Department and (ii) the normal accommodation of (a) the prison estate and National Offender Management Service to (A) (b) each prison in the prison estate is set out in the magistrates’ courts and (B) Crown courts on the following table. This information is published monthly sentencing of convicted criminals since January 2010. on the HMPS website via the following website. [36213] http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/assets/documents/ 10004C33pop_bull_dec_10.doc Mr Blunt: There has been no such guidance or Information held centrally on prison occupancy covers correspondence issuing from the Department to the all but 1,900 prisoners therefore it is not possible to courts on sentencing. Sentencing guidelines are issued provide the number of prisoners accommodated in by the Sentencing Council and the Court of Appeal. multiple-occupancy cells for each prison. It is however possible from the data available to determine the approximate number of prisoners in the prison estate who are sharing accommodation. As at 31 December Prison Accommodation 2010 around 33,000 prisoners (39% of the prison population) were sharing accommodation with other Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice prisoners, be it crowded (e.g. two prisoners held in a cell (1) what the operational capacity is of (a) the prison designed for one) or not (e.g. two prisoners held in a cell estate and (b) each prison in the prison estate; [36260] designed for two).
Monthly Bulletin—December 2010 (report date 31 December 2010) % Operational % Pop to In Accommodation Prison Name Baseline CNA In Use CNA Capacity Population1 Use CNA Available
Acklington 946 946 946 864 91 100 Altcourse 794 794 1,324 1,148 145 100 Ashfield 407 407 360 298 73 100 Ashwell 599 184 214 212 115 31 Askham Grange 150 126 128 115 91 84 Aylesbury 437 421 444 407 97 96 Bedford 322 321 506 441 137 100 Belmarsh 800 800 933 779 97 100 Birmingham 1,109 1,088 1,450 1,420 131 98 Blantyre House 122 122 122 122 100 100 Blundeston 481 409 454 453 111 85 Brinsford 545 545 577 489 90 100 Bristol 424 420 606 570 136 99 Brixton 530 530 798 696 131 100 Bronzefield 527 527 527 449 85 100 Buckley Hall 350 350 385 377 108 100 Bullingdon 879 879 1.114 1,049 119 100 Bullwood Hall 220 220 228 228 104 100 Bure 503 503 523 519 103 100 Canterbury 195 195 314 289 148 100 Cardiff 554 554 824 822 148 100 Castington 407 407 409 229 56 100 Channings Wood 698 698 731 706 101 100 Chelmsford 554 554 695 681 123 100 Coldingley 494 494 513 511 103 100 Cookham Wood 143 143 143 104 73 100 Dartmoor 635 493 514 492 100 78 Deerbolt 513 513 513 473 92 100 Doncaster 713 713 1,145 1,065 149 100 Dorchester 146 146 260 212 145 100 Dovegate 1,064 1,060 1,180 1,152 109 100 Dover 316 316 316 283 90 100 Downview 359 291 291 270 93 81 337W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 338W
Monthly Bulletin—December 2010 (report date 31 December 2010) % Operational % Pop to In Accommodation Prison Name Baseline CNA In Use CNA Capacity Population1 Use CNA Available
Drake Hall 315 315 315 271 86 100 Durham 606 606 1,014 888 147 100 East Sutton Park 98 98 100 86 88 100 Eastwood Park 333 333 363 285 86 100 Edmunds Hill 389 379 379 375 99 97 Elmley (Sheppey Cluster) 943 925 1,234 1,187 128 98 Erlestoke 470 370 370 360 97 79 Everthorpe 603 603 689 660 109 100 Exeter 322 316 545 495 157 98 Featherstone 671 642 655 653 102 96 Feltham 762 762 762 636 83 100 Ford 557 557 557 523 94 100 Forest Bank 1,064 1,064 1,424 1,308 123 100 Foston Hall 283 283 298 225 80 100 Frankland 859 859 859 840 98 100 Full Sutton 604 596 608 597 100 99 Garth 812 812 847 822 101 100 Gartree 677 677 677 678 100 100 Glen Parva 652 652 808 706 108 100 Gloucester 225 225 321 272 121 100 Grendon/Spring Hill 587 573 573 523 91 98 Guys Marsh 520 452 509 489 108 87 Haslar 160 124 134 117 94 78 Haverigg 622 622 644 622 100 100 Hewell 1,173 1,173 1,431 1,293 110 100 High Down 999 999 1,103 1,032 103 100 Highpoint 920 920 944 914 99 100 Hindley 506 440 440 284 65 87 Hollesley Bay 365 365 365 354 97 100 Holloway 540 531 531 450 85 98 Holme House 1,034 1,034 1.212 942 91 100 Hull 723 723 1,044 944 131 100 Huntercombe 366 275 275 197 72 75 Isis 252 252 252 198 79 100 Isle of Wight3 1,570 1,569 1,705 1,668 106 100 Kennet 175 175 342 333 190 100 Kingston 199 199 199 198 99 100 Kirkham 592 592 592 585 99 100 Kirklevington Grange 283 283 283 267 94 100 Lancaster 161 161 243 237 147 100 Lancaster Farms 480 480 530 452 94 100 Latchmere House 207 207 207 192 93 100 Leeds 829 776 1,088 1,041 134 94 Leicester 210 210 392 330 157 100 Lewes 623 495 507 457 92 79 Leyhill 532 530 530 499 94 100 Lincoln 431 427 729 545 128 99 Lindholme 1,054 1.038 1.118 1,045 101 98 Littlehey 1,143 1,143 1,206 1,164 102 100 Liverpool 1,188 1,157 1,423 1,151 99 97 Long Lartin 629 622 622 614 99 99 Low Newton 314 259 282 235 91 82 Lowdham Grange 900 900 930 936 104 100 Maidstone 565 565 600 592 105 100 Manchester 965 949 1,268 1,165 123 98 339W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 340W
Monthly Bulletin—December 2010 (report date 31 December 2010) % Operational % Pop to In Accommodation Prison Name Baseline CNA In Use CNA Capacity Population1 Use CNA Available
Moorland/Moorland 1,023 713 746 656 92 70 Open Morton Hall 392 392 392 272 69 100 Mount 747 747 768 766 103 100 New Hall 393 392 446 358 91 100 North Sea Camp 318 318 318 311 98 100 Northallerton 147 142 242 172 121 97 Norwich 625 625 767 706 113 100 Nottingham 723 723 1,060 962 133 100 Onley 710 710 710 678 95 100 Parc 1,170 946 1,258 1,213 128 81 Pentonville 914 909 1,272 1,156 127 99 Peterborough 840 840 1,008 863 103 100 Portland 607 463 483 428 92 76 Preston 453 453 840 752 166 100 Ranby 970 892 1,098 1,071 120 92 Reading 190 190 293 217 114 100 Risley 1,050 1,050 1,095 1,085 103 100 Rochester 756 649 649 615 95 86 Rye Hill 600 600 625 613 102 100 Send 282 282 282 271 96 100 Shepton Mallet 165 165 189 187 113 100 Shrewsbury 184 184 340 315 171 100 Stafford 741 725 741 736 102 98 Standford Hill 464 464 464 442 95 100 (Sheppey Cluster) Stocken 779 779 842 824 106 100 Stoke Heath 634 634 750 505 80 100 Styal 462 451 460 404 90 98 Sudbury 581 581 581 565 97 100 Swaleside (Sheppey 1,112 1,112 1,112 1,101 99 100 Cluster) Swansea 248 240 428 410 171 97 Swinfen Hall 604 604 654 645 107 100 Thorn Cross 322 322 322 277 86 100 Usk/Prescoed 335 335 449 434 130 100 Verne 572 571 606 598 105 100 Wakefield 749 748 750 740 99 100 Wandsworth 1,107 1,107 1,665 1,573 142 100 Warren Hill 222 128 128 117 91 58 Wayland 957 957 1,017 1,000 104 100 Wealstun 810 810 832 803 99 100 Wellingborough 638 514 522 505 98 81 Werrington 160 160 160 102 64 100 Wetherby 408 384 384 312 81 94 Whatton 779 776 841 835 108 100 Whitemoor 473 452 452 448 99 96 Winchester 499 499 706 642 129 100 Wolds 320 320 395 382 119 100 Woodhill 661 656 819 767 117 99 Wormwood Scrubs 1,176 1,176 1,281 1,203 102 100 341W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 342W
Monthly Bulletin—December 2010 (report date 31 December 2010) % Operational % Pop to In Accommodation Prison Name Baseline CNA In Use CNA Capacity Population1 Use CNA Available
Wymott 1,113 1,113 1,176 1,161 104 100 Total baseline CNA = 80,183 Total In Use CNA = 77,466 Total Useable Operational Capacity2 = 87,983 Total Population = 83,055 % Population to In Use CNA = 107% Total % Accommodation Available = 97% Total Out of Use Accommodation = 2,717 1 The prison unlock figure may be lower than the ‘Population’, as the ‘Population’ includes prisoners on authorised absence. 2 No places are currently activated under Operation Safeguard. 3 The sites at Albany, Camp Hill and Parkhurst constitute HM Prison Isle of Wight. Definitions of Accommodation Terms: Certified Normal Accommodation (CNA): Certified Normal Accommodation (CNA), or uncrowded capacity, is the Prison Service’s own measure of accommodation. CNA represents the good, decent standard of accommodation that the service aspires to provide all prisoners. Baseline CNA: Baseline CNA is the sum total of all certified accommodation in an establishment except, normally: Cells in punishment or segregation units. Healthcare cells or rooms in training prisons and YOIs that are not routinely used to accommodate long stay patients. In-Use CNA: In-use CNA is baseline CNA less those places not available for immediate use, for example: damaged cells, cells affected by building works. Operational Capacity: The operational capacity of a prison is the total number of prisoners that an establishment can hold taking into account control, security and the proper operation of the planned regime. It is determined by Directors of Offender Management on the basis of operational judgement and experience. Useable Operational Capacity: Useable Operational Capacity of the estate is the sum of all establishments’ operational capacity less 2000 places. This is known as the operating margin and reflects the constraints imposed by the need to provide separate accommodation for different classes of prisoner i.e. by sex, age, security category, conviction status, single cell risk assessment and also due to geographical distribution. Establishments Exceeding their Operational Capacity: Governing governors and Controllers and Directors of contracted out prisons must ensure that the approved operational capacity is not normally exceeded other than on an exceptional basis to accommodate pressing operational need. Source: Report produced by Population Strategy The CNA and Operational Capacity figures are taken from the latest signed cell certificates held by PS. The report is compiled from data on the last working Friday in December.
Prison Sentences region in each of the last five years for which figures are available; [36230] Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (2) what the reoffending rate of offenders was in how many offenders serving custodial sentences received each English region in each of the last five years for sentences of (a) less than six months, (b) between six which figures are available. [36231] and 12 months, (c) between 12 months and five years, (d) between five and 10 years, (e) between 10 and 25 years and (f) over 25 years. [36262] Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice publishes local reoffending data for all adult offenders on the probation Mr Blunt: From the most recent available data, caseload (which includes offenders out on licence and 30 September 2010, the number of prisoners serving those with court orders). These data are produced at the custodial sentences of: probation area level and measure the reoffending of all offenders under probation supervision over a period of (a) less than or equal to six months was 5,532; three months. The results are produced by aggregating (b) greater than six months to less than 12 months was 2,564; four quarters of data. (c) 12 months to less than five years was 26,546; (d) five years to less than 10 years was recorded as 12,630; The following table shows the reoffending rate for adult offenders on the probation caseload. Each period (e) 10 years to less than 25 years was recorded as 4,907; shown is based on the offenders on the probation (f) 25 years or more was recorded as 75. caseload at the end of March, June, September and There were 432 cases with a sentence length of five December of each year. Data are not available prior to years or more where it was not possible to provide an 2007. exact sentence length and there were 13,271 prisoners On 1 April 2010, Probation Trusts were established serving indeterminate sentences at 30 September 2010. following a rigorous formal application process, resulting These figures have been drawn from administrative in all 42 former Probation Boards being replaced by IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording 35 Probation Trusts. The table presented here is based system, are subject to possible errors with data entry on data prior to this date. and processing. Reoffending data for offenders with a diagnosed mental Reoffenders health disorder are not available. Further information on adult reoffending is available Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for at: Justice (1) what the reoffending rate of offenders with a http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ diagnosed mental health disorder was in each English reoffendingofadults.htm 343W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 344W
Local adult reoffending rates by offenders, in 2007-09, by probation have set out our proposals in the Police Reform and area in England Social Responsibility Bill which include giving licensing Percentage authorities more power to refuse or revoke premises 1 April to 31 March each year licences, introducing a late night levy so that premises Region 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 contribute to the cost of policing the night time economy East Midlands 9.47 9.16 9.04 and reforming the temporary event notice (TEN) system to ensure that loopholes can no longer be exploited. East of England 8.65 9.22 9.29 London 8.72 8.67 8.50 Additionally, we are running a series of intensive North East 14.93 14.67 14.24 support visits for police and local authority areas which North West 9.78 10.22 9.88 request this support. The visits take place over three South East 8.82 8.92 9.48 days, and involve classroom based training for the operational staff on the powers they have to tackle South West 9.37 10.32 10.06 alcohol related crime and disorder, as well as practical Unknown 11.15 10.53 10.46 support on licensing visits to premises.
Bolivia: Drugs HOME DEPARTMENT Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the Alcoholic Drinks: Crime Home Department whether she plans to lodge a formal objection to the request made by the Bolivian George Eustice: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government to amend the 1961 UN Single Convention Home Department what steps she plans to take to on Narcotic Drugs to remove the ban on coca leaf reduce the incidence of alcohol-related crime and chewing. [35183] disorder. [34903] James Brokenshire [holding answer 21 January 2011]: James Brokenshire: The Government take the issue of The Government submitted an objection on 21 January alcohol-related crime and disorder very seriously. In the 2011 to the Bolivian proposal to amend the United coalition agreement, we set out a clear programme of Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 to reform around alcohol licensing to tackle the crime and remove coca leaf as an illicit drug. antisocial behaviour that is too often associated with binge drinking in the night time economy. Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for the Following our recent consultation and the publication Home Department what her policy is on the proposal of the consultation response in December, we have by Bolivia to exempt traditional uses of coca from the committed to the following programme of work to provisions of the 1961 UN Convention on Narcotic introduce measures to deliver the coalition agreement Drugs; and if she will make a statement. [34627] commitments through the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill: James Brokenshire [holding answer 18 January 2011]: Making it easier for communities to have their say on local The Government submitted an objection on 21 January licensing, allowing local authorities to consider the views of the 2011 to the Bolivian proposal to amend the United wider community, not just those living close to premises; Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 to Taking tough action against underage drinking by doubling remove coca leaf as an illicit drug. If coca leaf were the fine to £20,000 for those found persistently selling alcohol to permitted to be removed from the Convention, it would children, extending orders that see premises closed on a voluntary basis to a minimum of seven days and bringing in automatic likely result in more coca cultivation, which in turn licence reviews for these problem premises—which can see licences would lead to greater cocaine production. revoked; The Government remain committed to working with Charging a fee for late-night licences to contribute towards the Bolivia to tackle cocaine supply and trafficking and I cost of policing and local authority services to help mitigate the have recently signed a memorandum of understanding impact of the night time economy on local communities; with the Bolivian Government to reinforce that close Substantially overhauling the system for Temporary Event cooperation. Notices (TENs) so that existing loopholes can no longer be exploited by unscrupulous operators, while ensuring the process is not bureaucratic for small voluntary and community groups. Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre Additionally, on 18 January the Government announced their intention to ban the sale of alcohol sold below Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for duty + VAT. By introducing this new measure, we will the Home Department how many detainees being stop the worst instances of deep discounting and prevent transferred (a) from Campsfield House immigration alcohol being sold so cheaply that it leads to a greater removal centre and (b) to Campsfield House immigration risk of health harms or drunken violence. removal centre have required medical treatment in connection with their transfer in the latest period for Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for the which figures are available. [35190] Home Department what steps she plans to take to reduce the incidence of alcohol related crime and Damian Green: Details on the numbers of detainees disorder. [35528] being transferred to and from Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre who have required medical James Brokenshire: The Government are determined treatment in connection with their transfer could be to reform the licensing regime to ensure that alcohol is provided only by detailed examination of individual no longer a driver of crime and disorder. To this end, we records at disproportionate cost. 345W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 346W
All escorting officers are trained in first aid, should a Damian Green: As at 30 September 2010, management detainee require medical assistance while in their care. information shows that of the 215 people in Campsfield Officers could also divert to a hospital if they thought it House Immigration Removal Centre, detained solely appropriate. under Immigration Act powers, 200 had been in detention Every detainee is seen by a nurse within two hours of for less than a year and 15 for a year or longer. These arrival at an immigration removal centre and is given an figures are rounded to the nearest five. appointment to see a GP within 24 hours, unless an The Home Office publishes statistics on the number earlier appointment is required. This service extends to of persons detained solely under Immigration Act powers detainees who have transferred from another immigration on a quarterly and annual basis, which are available removal centre. from the Library of the House and from the Home Office’s Research, Development and Statistics website Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for at: the Home Department how many detainees were www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum-stats.html transferred from other immigration removal centres Local records show that the longest period for which and other immigration detention facilities to a detainee has been held at Campsfield House Immigration Campsfield House immigration removal centre in (a) Removal Centre in the last five years was 1,041 days. 2006, (b) 2007, (c) 2008, (d) 2009 and (e) 2010; and The individual concerned had a very serious criminal for what reasons each such transfer was made. [35228] record and was detained while attempts were made to document him for removal. This information is taken Damian Green: The following table shows the number from data normally used for management information of detainees who were transferred to Campsfield House only. It has not been subject to the detailed checks that Immigration Removal Centre (IRC) in the calendar apply for National Statistics publications, is provisional years 2008-10. Data are not available for prior years. and subject to change.
Number of detainees transferred Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 2,320 the Home Department how many of the detainees in 2009 1,715 Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre were 2010 1,910 convicted of committing violent crimes in (a) 2007, (b) 2008, (c) 2009 and (d) 2010. [35314] The data provided includes transfers to Campsfield House from other IRCs and other immigration detention Damian Green: UK Border Agency internal management facilities, including short term holding facilities and information shows that there are currently no detainees holding rooms. It does not include transfers from prisons in Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre that or police stations. The information is taken from data have been convicted of violent crimes since 2007. normally used for management information only. It has not been subject to the detailed checks that apply for National Statistics publications and is provisional and Cannabis subject to change. Details on the reasons for each individual transfer are Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for not available and could be provided only by examination the Home Department what steps her Department of individual records at disproportionate cost. is taking to (a) locate and (b) close facilities manufacturing skunk cannabis; and if she will make a The Detainee Escorting and Population Management statement. [36117] Unit (DEPMU) is responsible for bed space management within the UK Border Agency’s detention estate. The unit seeks to minimise movements within the estate in James Brokenshire: The unauthorised cultivation of the interests of providing a settled regime and the cannabis and any subsequent supply and possession of efficient use of escorting resources. cannabis is unlawful. The manufacture and trafficking in controlled drugs of all classes needs to be tackled Movement of detainees around the estate is required robustly in order to reduce the harm drugs cause to for operational reasons, most often to: communities and the organised criminality associated Position detainees close to airports prior to removal with their supply. Position detainees for court appearances The Government have worked closely with the Position detainees for hospital appointments Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) to support Position detainees for embassy/documentation interviews the policing of illegal cannabis production and use. On Facilitate the movement of detainees to more secure locations 17 August 2010 ACPO published the UK National for security/behavioural reasons Problem Profile Commercial Cultivation of Cannabis. Ensure bed space is fully utilised. The main finding of the report is that there has been a significant rise in the identification of cannabis factories Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for in 2009-10, from 3,032 in 2007-08, to 6,866 in 2009-10. the Home Department (1) how many people at The number of cannabis plants seized has also increased, Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre have from 643,510 cannabis plants seized in 2008-09 to 758,700 been detained for (a) more than and (b) less than one in 2009-10. year; [35313] ACPO is co-ordinating the police response to the (2) what the longest period is for which a detainee issue of cannabis factories, which includes proactive has been held at Campsfield House Immigration operations to identify and close down these factories Removal Centre in the last five years. [35315] and disrupt the organised crime groups behind them, 347W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 348W while improving police knowledge and understanding Entry Clearances: Overseas Students of the trade through activity-led intelligence gathering. This activity includes the development of a UK Baseline Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the Assessment; a National Problem Profile of commercial Home Department how many students from countries cannabis cultivation; engagement with UK Revenue outside the EU entered the UK in each year since 1997; Protection Agency (UKRPA) and power companies and if she will make a statement. [35245] and the publication of National Policing Improvement Damian Green: The available statistics on the number Agency and ACPO practice guidance on tackling of persons given leave to enter the United Kingdom as commercial cannabis cultivation and head shops. The students, excluding EEA and Swiss nationals, 1997 to guidance can be found at: 2009, are given in the following table: www.npia.police.uk/en/docs/Cannabis_Cultivation_R.pdf Passengers1, 2, 3 given leave to enter the United Kingdom for the purpose of study excluding EEA and Swiss nationals, 1997 to 2009 Detention Centres: Northern Ireland Number of journeys Tier Student Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for the Total Students 4-students visitors Home Department (1) what recent discussions she has 1997 278,000 278,000 n/a n/a had with the (a) Northern Ireland Minister of Justice and (b) Northern Ireland Policing Board on proposals 1998 266,000 266,000 n/a n/a for a new immigration detention centre in Northern 1999 272,000 272,000 n/a n/a 2000 312,000 312,000 n/a n/a Ireland; [35240] 2001 339,000 339,000 n/a n/a (2) whether provision will be made for children to be 2002 359,000 369,000 n/a n/a held in the Northern Ireland immigration detention 2003 319,000 319,000 n/a n/a centre. [35241] 2004 294,000 294,000 n/a n/a Damian Green: The UK Border Agency successfully 2005 284,000 284,000 n/a n/a applied for planning consent to convert a disused police 2006 309,000 309,000 n/a n/a station in Larne into a residential short-term holding 2007 361,000 358,000 n/a 3,400 facility providing accommodation for up to 22 adults. 2008 370,000 227,000 n/a 143,000 No children will be held at the facility. 20094 468,000 82,100 188,000 198,000 n/a = Not applicable The Secretary of State for the Home Department has 1 Excludes dependants. not personally met with the Northern Ireland Policing 2 Nationals of EU accession countries are included or excluded Board to discuss Larne. She met with David Ford, according to their accession date. Northern Ireland Minister of Justice on 8 September 3 Figures rounded to three significant figures. Figures may not sum to 2010 but Larne was not discussed. the totals shown because of independent rounding 4 Provisional figures. The UK Border Agency Assistant Director responsible Statistics on passengers given leave to enter the United for Immigration Group in Northern Ireland met with Kingdom by purpose of journey are published annually the Northern Ireland Policing Board on 18 March 2010 in the Home Office Statistical Bulletin, “Control of and briefed them on the Agency’s plans for a short-term Immigration: Statistics United Kingdom”. These holding facility at Larne. Agency officials have since, on publications are available from the Library of the House occasion, updated members of the legislative assembly, and from the Home Office Research, Development and which includes Policing Board members, on the proposals Statistics website at: for the facility. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- stats.html Drugs: Professor Nutt Entry Clearances: Pakistan Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether licences, authorities or Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for the permissions were required for Professor Nutt to possess Home Department whether entry clearance decisions and inject the class A drug psilocybin into human for visitors from the Punjab, India are taken by officials subjects on the BBC programme, The Brain, A Secret in (a) Delhi, (b) London or (c) elsewhere. [34779] History. [35745] Damian Green: Decisions on all applications for entry clearance lodged in the Punjab, India, including those [holding answer 24 January 2011]: James Brokenshire for entry as a visitor, are made by UK Border Agency A licence is required to possess psilocybin, which is officials in New Delhi. However, an entry clearance controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and officer may, exceptionally, refer an application to London listed in schedule 1 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations for consideration outside the immigration rules, e.g. if 2001. Those working with schedule 1 drugs in their there are compelling, compassionate circumstances involved. capacity as researchers and under Home Office licence to possess do not need a specific Home Office authority Hinkley Point Power Stations: Demonstrations to administer. The psilocybin used on the BBC programme, The Mr Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State Brain, A Secret History, was lawfully possessed by for the Home Department what steps she has taken to Bristol university under Home Office licence and was prevent protestors from accessing Hinkley Point lawfully taken to Cardiff university, where the research nuclear power station via the Bristol Ports Habitat took place, under the supervision of the licence holder. Wetland scheme. [35143] 349W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 350W
James Brokenshire: The policing of protest is an Immigrants: Detainees operational matter for the local police force. Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Human Trafficking Department how many passengers have been detained at Britain’s ports and airports while travelling on forged or stolen travel documents in each of the last three Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the years. [35310] Home Department how many decisions by the competent authority regarding the National Referral Damian Green: The following table outlines the number Mechanism have been subsequently reversed through of false travel documents detected by Border Force judicial review. [35226] officers at UK ports and airports and juxtaposed controls for each of the last three calendar years. Damian Green [holding answer 21 January 2011]: We are not aware of any competent authority decisions Total being reversed by judicial review. There have been a very small number of cases where a judicial review application 2008 2,745 has caused the competent authority to reconsider the 2009 1,770 case and this has led to a negative decision being 2010 1,589 reversed. We are unable to provide figures based on the number of passengers detained in possession of forged documents Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for because the data are not centrally recorded in this way. the Home Department what steps she is taking to In order to retrieve the information in the requested support more effective enforcement internationally to format we would have to refer to individual records at combat human trafficking. [35321] disproportionate cost. These figures do not include the number of inadequately Damian Green: The Government work closely with documented passengers denied boarding by commercial international counterparts, including through regional carriers’ overseas, who work in conjunction with UK bodies such as the European Union and the Organisation Border Agency immigration liaison officers and managers for Security and Co-operation in Europe, to strengthen (formerly airline liaison officers). Since 2004, the number joint enforcement activity in source and transit countries, of immigration liaison officer deployments to key travel to tackle criminal networks and to raise awareness hubs has more than doubled resulting in significant among potential victims. Law enforcement partners numbers of passengers being stopped with false documents work in collaboration with international counterparts, before they travel to the UK. Greater numbers are also using Joint Investigation Teams where appropriate. The subject to visa controls and the safeguards and biometric forthcoming human trafficking strategy will set out capture involved also has a significant deterrent effect. what steps we will take to reinforce these efforts. Immobilisation of Vehicles: Private Land Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps her Department is taking to encourage the reporting of human Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps she is taking to ensure trafficking. [35350] that plans to tax clamping and towing on private land do not leave property owners unable to tackle illegal Damian Green: The reporting of human trafficking is parking on their land. [35693] crucial if the United Kingdom is to be successful in its effort to combat this brutal crime. Lynne Featherstone: The Government intend to include To this end, the UK Human Trafficking Centre, in in the Protection of Freedoms Bill, to be introduced by conjunction with the National Policing Improvement February, provisions that will make it an offence to Agency, has introduced mandatory training for all new immobilise or tow away a vehicle without lawful authority, police officers on human trafficking. with the intention of preventing the motorist from The UK Border Agency has introduced mandatory moving their vehicle. e-learning on human trafficking for all operational staff This will not prevent landowners from using other below the level of Assistant Director. This has helped to forms of parking control which remain legal: for example, improve their ability to identify and report potential ticketing or fixed barriers. Where appropriate, the incidents of human trafficking, and where applicable to Government would expect landowners to use those refer onwards via the National Referral Mechanism. other types of parking control. The Bill will also include provisions to extend the Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for powers of the police to move cars that are parked the Home Department what assessment she has made dangerously or obstructively on private land in the of the work of the UK Human Trafficking Centre’s same way as they can do at present on public roads. prevention sub-group in each year since its inception. [35351] Legal Highs
Damian Green: There has been no Home Office Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the assessment of the UK Human Trafficking Centre’s Home Department what steps she is taking to identify prevention sub-group. new and emerging legal highs. [35965] 351W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 352W
James Brokenshire: The Government takes the issue Sexual Offence Liaison Officers of new psychoactive substances (so called ‘legal highs’) very seriously. Ed Balls: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home On 30 November 2010 we introduced to this House Department how many sexual offence liaison officers legislative proposals, in the Police Reform and Social were employed in each police force in the latest period Responsibility Bill, to amend the Misuse of Drugs Act for which figures are available. [36057] 1971 with provisions for temporary banning powers on new ‘legal highs’ and for the Advisory Council on the Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 25 January 2011]: Misuse of Drugs (ACMD’s) membership to have the The Home Office does not hold this information centrally. flexibility required to respond to a challenging drugs Decisions on the deployment of officers are for each landscape. forcetomake. On 1 January 2011 the Home Office launched a three Vetting month pilot to explore improvements to the current forensic early warning system for identifying new and emerging drugs. This includes working with forensic Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for and chemical suppliers, law enforcement agencies and the Home Department when she plans to announce the experts in the field to develop a co-ordinated UK-wide completion of the review into the future of criminal approach to laboratory testing and analysis of law record checks and the vetting of volunteer workers. enforcement seizures and wider test purchasing to identify [35627] new psychoactive substances more quickly. The creation of a ‘virtual reference library’ of characterised chemical Lynne Featherstone: The Government have commissioned reference standards is also being explored. a review of the criminal records regime which we expect to report within the next few weeks. We shall consider carefully and respond to the outcomes and Members: Correspondence recommendations of the review. The Government continue to be committed to reducing the barriers to volunteering. Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when she plans to respond to Visas: Internet the letter from the right hon. member for Manchester, Gorton of 13 December 2010 in regard to Mr R Bestford. Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for the [36032] Home Department whether she has plans to enable (a) students and (b) other visitors from abroad to submit James Brokenshire: I wrote to the right hon. Member applications for visas entirely online. [34778] on 20 January 2011. Damian Green: There are three main parts to the overseas visa application process: Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 Application form This may be submitted online Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the Biometric (fingerprint) enrolment and core biometric verification Home Department what plans she has to review the (checking passport details) provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971; and if she This is done in person by the applicant at one of our Visa will make a statement. [35957] Application or Biometric Enrolment Centres Supporting document submission (may be done in person or James Brokenshire: I refer my hon. Friend to the sent depending on location) written answer I gave on 6 December 2010, Official Given that an applicant will be required to submit Report, column 103W. biometrics in person, there are no plans to enable (a) students and (b) other visitors from abroad to submit Police: Demonstrations applications for visas entirely online. Young Offenders Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assessment she has made of the adequacy of (a) resources, (b) the legal framework, Karl Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for the (c) guidance issued by her Department and (d) her Home Department how many people aged 10 to 16 years Department’s policy for dealing with public order issues were (a) arrested for an offence, (b) charged with an relating to public protests and ensuring public safety offence, (c) cautioned for an offence and (d) convicted and proportionate policing. [28530] of an offence in 2009. [35880] James Brokenshire: The arrests collection held by the James Brokenshire [holding answer 3 December 2010]: Home Office is an aggregate collection covering specific The Government’s policy is to support the police in age bands. Figures are collected on arrests of persons in striking the right balance between facilitating peaceful the 10-17 age band, rather than the 10-16 band requested. protest and dealing robustly with individuals engaged in crime and disorder at demonstrations. The Government In 2008-09 (latest available) the number of persons continue to work closely with the police and other aged 10-17 arrested for notifiable offences in was 273,041. agencies in respect of recent, current and forthcoming Data provided by the Ministry of Justice on the public order challenges to assess their impact on the number of 10-16 year olds given reprimands and final police’s responsibility in maintaining this balance. warnings (juvenile cautions), proceeded against at 353W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 354W magistrates courts (provided in lieu of charges as charges Departmental Communication data are not available) and found guilty at all courts for all offences in 2009, are provided in the table. Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for The arrests data provided by the Home Office covers International Development what measures he has notifiable offences only whereas the data provided by undertaken to reduce jargon and promote plain English the Ministry of Justice covers all criminal offences, in Departmental communications. [35790] therefore the data are not directly comparable. Mr Duncan: The Department for International Number of offenders aged 10 to 16 years given a reprimand or warrning1, 2 and the number of defendants aged 10 to 16 proceeded Development (DFID) is committed to ensuring that against at magistrates courts and found guilty at all courts, for all UK taxpayers understand where their money goes and offences, England and Wales, 20093, 4 the results it achieves. DFID aims to communicate this Number as clearly as possible to the public. There is an expectation that staff use plain English, Reprimand or warning 63,380 as set out in guidance on how to present advice to Proceeded against 65,929 Ministers, and respond to inquiries from the public. Found guilty 52,083 Work is routinely returned for redrafting if it does not 1 From 1 June 2000 the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force meet this expectation. Staff are supported through face- nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. to-face and online training; the latter is provided in 2 The reprimand or warning statistics relate to persons for whom these partnership with the Plain English Campaign. Professional offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. editors produce all content for DFID’s online and print When an offender has been given a reprimand or warning for two or publications. more offences at the same time the principal offence is the more serious offence. Ministers have been forceful in requiring clear prose 3 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons and high standards of punctuation and grammar. for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or Malaria: Disease Control more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for maximum penalty is the most severe. International Development what estimate he has made 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate of the unit cost of (a) anti-malarial mosquito nets and and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have (b) pentavalent vaccines provided by his Department. been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by [36265] the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Source: Development (DFID) uses a variety of channels to Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. fund and deliver long lasting insecticide treated nets (LLINs) including through its support to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, UNITAID and through bilateral support at country level. The INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT purchase and delivery cost of LLINs varies between countries and by delivery channel. Recent analysis of 55 Burma: Overseas Aid countries reporting on procurement by the Global Fund, which accounted for 35% of global purchases, estimated Malcolm Wicks: To ask the Secretary of State for the average unit cost of purchasing a LLIN to be US International Development what funding was allocated $5.30 in 2009. This does not include distribution costs. by his Department to (a) the Mao Tao Clinic and (b) DFID provides funds through the GAVI Alliance to Backpack Health Worker teams operating in Burma in roll out the pentavalent vaccine. Due to increased demand the last year for which figures are available. [35614] for the vaccine and a reduced price offer by an emerging market vaccine manufacturer, GAVI estimates that in Mr Duncan: The Department for International 2011 the average weighted price for the vaccine will go Development (DFID) provided £119,999 in 2009-10 to down to US $2.58, compared to the current average the Mao Tao Clinic. We are considering a proposal for price of US $2.97. additional health aid for displaced people in conflict-affected parts of eastern Burma. Nigeria: Education
Malcolm Wicks: To ask the Secretary of State for Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether his Department International Development if he will provide additional has allocated aid to ethnic Karen refugees in response funding and capacity for the element of the Education to the current political situation in Karen State, Sector Support Programme in Nigeria that supports the Burma. [35615] development of schools-based management committees. [36675] Mr Duncan: The Department for International Development (DFID) is providing approximately £1.6 Mr O’Brien: Support for school management committees million this financial year for food, housing, other is one of the four main elements of the Education supplies and improved access to legal assistance for the Sector Support Programme in Nigeria (ESSPIN). To 146,000 Burmese refugees living in camps in Thailand. date ESSPIN has supported nearly 1,000 school We have not provided additional funding in response to management committees, which has led to significant the recent upsurge in fighting in Karen state. improvements in local accountability and involvement. 355W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 356W
There is no plan at present to provide additional Mr Duncan: The British high commission in Colombo resources for this particular aspect of ESSPIN’s work. is in regular contact with UNICEF about humanitarian However, a mid-term review which will begin in May issues in Sri Lanka. We have received no representations 2011 will look at how funds can be best utilised within from UNICEF on this particular question. the programme to ensure greatest benefits to students, schools and communities. We are also supporting school UN Agencies: Finance management committees through other partners, including UNICEF, and will be reviewing how to achieve greatest results and best value for money. Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much funding his Department contributed to the UN Division for the Sri Lanka: Food Advancement of Women in each of the last four years. [35874] Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what recent representations Mr Duncan: The Division for the Advancement of he has received from the World Food Programme on Women (DAW) is part of the UN Secretariat. It is the effect on food rations in Sri Lanka of insufficient funded from UN member states’ assessed contributions donor funding in 2011; and if he will make a statement. to the UN regular budget. The UK’s contribution to [35721] the regular budget is managed by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO). The Department for Mr Duncan: The British high commission in Colombo International Development (DFID) has not made any has recently discussed food aid funding issues with additional contribution to DAW in the last four years. representatives of the World Food Programme (WFP) and the United Nations Office for the Co-ordination of Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Humanitarian Affairs. Our understanding is that, at International Development how much funding his present, WFP only has sufficient funding for its food Department contributed to the UN Office of the Special aid programme in Sri Lanka until April 2011. Adviser on Gender Issues in each of the last four years. [35887] Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced People Mr Duncan: The UN Office of the Special Adviser on Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Gender Issues (OSAGI) is part of the UN Secretariat. International Development what recent discussions he It is funded from UN member states’assessed contributions has had with representatives of the United Nations to the UN regular budget. The UK’s contribution to the High Commission for Refugees on the provision of assessed budget is managed by the Foreign and shelter cash grants to internally-displaced families Commonwealth Office (FCO). The Department for being resettled in Sri Lanka. [35876] International Development (DFID) has not made any additional contribution to OSAGI in the last four years. Mr Duncan: The British high commission in Colombo is in regular contact with the United Nations High Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in Sri Lanka on International Development how much funding his this and other issues. In 2010, the Department for Department contributed to the International Research International Development (DFID) provided £300,000 and Training Institute for the Advancement of Women to UNHCR for shelter cash grants. In total, more than in each of the last four years. [35888] 70,000 families returning to their home areas have now benefitted from UNHCR’s cash grants programme. Mr Duncan: The International Research and Training Institute for the Advancement of Women (INSTRAW) Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for is part of the UN Secretariat. It is funded from UN International Development what assessment he has member states’ assessed contributions to the UN regular made on the level of involvement of (a) Tamil budget. The UK’s contribution to the assessed budget is community groups and (b) independent politicians in managed by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office the process of resettlement in Sri Lanka. [35877] (FCO). The Department for International Development (DFID) has not made any additional contribution to Mr Duncan: Tamil community groups, such as rural INSTRAW in the last four years. development societies, are helping internally displaced people to re-establish their livelihoods on their return to their home areas. Opposition and minority parties and politicians have raised concerns over issues such as the pace of resettlement with the relevant authorities. DEFENCE
Sri Lanka: Schools Armed Forces
Katy Clark: Toask the Secretary of State for International Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Development what representations he has received from Defence (1) where each regiment of the (a) Royal UNICEF on the effect on the schooling of children in Artillery, (b) Royal Engineers, (c) Royal Signals and Sri Lanka of the use of school property in the Northern (d) Household Cavalry is stationed; [35889] Provinces for military or rehabilitation purposes. [35728] (2) where each infantry battalion is stationed. [35902] 357W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 358W
Nick Harvey: The name and location of each Regular Name of Infantry Battalion (Bn) Barracks (Bks)/Station/Location and Territorial Army Infantry Battalion is shown in the following table: 4th Bn The Rifles Kiwi Bks, Bulford 5th Bn The Rifles Allanbrooke Bks, Paderborn Name of Infantry Battalion (Bn) Barracks (Bks)/Station/Location 6th Bn The Rifles Wyvern Bks, Exeter 1st Bn Grenadier Guards Wellington Bks, London 7th Bn The Rifles Brock Bks, Reading 1st Bn Coldstream Guards New Mons Bks, Aldershot 1st Bn The Royal Irish Clive Bks, Tern Hill Regiment 1st Bn Scots Guards Bourlon Bks, Catterick 2nd Bn The Royal Irish Portadown, Northern Ireland 1st Bn Irish Guards Victoria Bks, Windsor Regiment 1st Bn Welsh Guards Lille Bks, Aldershot 2nd Bn The Parachute Merville Bks, Colchester The London Regiment Battersea, London Regiment 1st Bn The Royal Regiment of Dreghorn Bks, Edinburgh, 3rd Bn The Parachute Regiment Merville Bks, Colchester Scotland 4th Bn The Parachute Regiment Thornbury Bks, Pudsey 2nd Bn The Royal Regiment of Glencorse Bks, Edinburgh 1st Bn The Royal Gurkha Rifles Sir John Moore Bks, Shorncliffe Scotland 2nd Bn The Royal Gurkha Seria, Brunei 3rd Bn The Royal Regiment of Fort George, Inverness Rifles Scotland 4th Bn The Royal Regiment of St Barbara Bks, Fallingbostel Scotland The name and location of each Regular and Territorial 5th Bn The Royal Regiment of Howe Bks, Canterbury Army Regiment of the (a) Royal Artillery, (b) Royal Scotland Engineers, (c) Royal Signals and (d) Household Cavalry 6th Bn The Royal Regiment of Walcheren Bks, Glasgow is shown in the following tables: Scotland The Royal Artillery 7th Bn The Royal Regiment of Queen’s Bks, Perth Barracks (Bks)/Station/ Scotland Name of Regiment Location 1st Bn The Princess of Wales Barker Bks, Paderborn Royal Regiment 1st Regiment Royal Horse Assaye Barracks, Hampshire 2nd Bn The Princess of Wales Napier Lines, Woolwich Artillery Royal Regiment 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Caen Barracks, Hohne 3rd Bn The Princess of Wales Leros TA Centre, Canterbury Artillery Royal Regiment 4th Regiment Royal Horse Alanbrooke Barracks. Topcliffe 1st Bn The Royal Regiment of Mooltan Bks, Tidworth Artillery Fusiliers 5th Regiment Royal Artillery Marne Barracks, Catterick 2nd Bn The Royal Regiment of Trenchard Bks, Celle 7th (Parachute) Regiment Royal Merville Barracks, Colchester Fusiliers Horse Artillery 5th Bn The Royal Regiment of Gilesgate Armoury, Durham 12th Regiment Royal Artillery Baker Barracks, Hampshire Fusiliers 14th Regiment Royal Artillery Royal Artillery Barracks, 1st Bn The Royal Anglian Queen Elizabeth Bks, Pirbright Larkhill Regiment 16th Regiment Royal Artillery St Georges Barracks, North 2nd Bn The Royal Anglian ESBA, Dhekelia, Cyprus Luffenham Regiment 19th Regiment Royal Artillery Bhurtpore Barracks, Tidworth 3rd Bn The Royal Anglian Blenheim Camp, Bury St 26th Regiment Royal Artillery Mansergh Barracks, Gutersloh Regiment Edmonds 29 (Commando) Regiment RHQ 8, 23,79 Batterys, 1st Bn The Duke of Lancaster’s Somme Bks, Catterick Royal Artillery Plymouth Regiment 32nd Regiment Royal Artillery Roberts Barracks, Larkhill 2nd Bn The Duke of WSBA, Episkopi, Cyprus Lancaster’s Regiment 39th Regiment Royal Artillery Albemarle Barracks, Newcastle- Upon-Tyne 4th Bn The Duke of Lancaster’s Kimberley Bks, Preston Regiment 40th Regiment Royal Artillery Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn 1st Bn The Yorkshire Regiment Oxford Bks, Munster 47th Regiment Royal Artillery Baker Barracks, Thorney Island 2nd Bn The Yorkshire Regiment Weeton Bks, Preston The King’s Troop Royal Horse Ordnance Hill, St Johns Wood, Artillery London 3rd Bn The Yorkshire Regiment Battlesbury Bks, Warminster Honourable Artillery Company Finsbury Barracks, London 4th Bn The Yorkshire Regiment Worsley Bks, York 100th (Yeomanry) Regiment RHQ/201 Bty RA(V), TA 1st Bn The Mercian Regiment Marne Bks, Catterick Royal Artillery (Volunteers) Centre, Luton 2nd Bn The Mercian Regiment Palace Bks, Belfast 101st (Northumbrian) Regiment R.HQ, Napier Armoury, 3rd Bn The Mercian Regiment Lumsden Bks, Fallingbostel Royal Artillery (Volunteers) Gateshead 4th Bn The Mercian Regiment Wolseley House TA Centre, 103rd (Lancashire Artillery R.HQ, Jubilee Barracks, St Wolverhampton Volunteers) Regiment Royal Helens Artillery (Volunteers) 1st Bn The Royal Welsh The Dale, Chester Regiment 104th Regiment Royal Artillery Raglan Barracks, South Wales (Volunteers) 2nd Bn The Royal Welsh Regiment Lucknow Bks, 105th Regiment Royal Artillery RHQ, Artillery House, Tidworth (Volunteers) Edinburgh 3rd Bn The Royal Welsh Maindy Bks, Cardiff 106th (Yeomanry) Regiment Napier House, Grove Park, Regiment Royal Artillery (Volunteers) London 1st Bn The Rifles Beachley Bks, Chepstow Central Volunteers Royal Artillery Barracks, Headquarters Royal Artillery Woolwich 2nd Bn The Rifles Abercorn Bks, Ballykinler and Headquarters Woolwich 3rd Bn The Rifles Redford Bks, Edinburgh Station 359W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 360W
The Royal Engineers The Royal Signals Barracks (Bks)/Station/ Name of Regiment Station/Location Name of Regiment Location 11th Signal Regiment Blandford Camp, Blandford 21 Engineer Regiment Claro Bks, Ripon, N Yorks Forum 22 Engineer Regiment Swinton Bks, Tidworth, Hants 14th Signal Regiment (Electronic Cawdor Barracks, Brawdy (nr Warfare) Haverfordwest) 23 Engineer Regiment (Air Rock Bks, Woodbridge, Suffolk 16th Signal Regiment Javelin Barracks, Elmpt (GE) Assault) 18th (United Kingdom Special Stirling Lines, Hereford 24 Commando Engineer RM Chivenor, Barnstaple, Forces) Signal Regiment Regiment Devon 21st Signal Regiment (Air Support) Azimghur Barracks, Colerne (nr 25 Engineer Regiment (Air Waterbeach Bks, Waterbeach, Bath) Support) Cambs 22nd Signal Regiment Beacon Barracks, Stafford 26 Engineer Regiment Swinton Bks, Tidworth, Hants 30th Signal Regiment Gamecock Barracks, Bramcote 28 Engineer Regiment Gordon Bks, Hameln, Germany (nr Nuneaton) 32 Engineer Regiment Campbell Bks, Hohne, 32nd Signal Regiment (Volunteers) Glasgow Germany 37th Signal Regiment (Volunteers) Redditch 33 Engineer Regiment Carver Bks, Wimbish, Essex 38th Signal Regiment (Volunteers) Sheffield (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) 39th Signal Regiment (Volunteers) Bristol 35 Engineer Regiment Barker Bks, Paderborn, 71st (City of London) Yeomanry Bexley, London Germany Signal Regiment (Volunteers) 36 Engineer Regiment Invicta Park Bks, Maidstone, Kent The Household Cavalry 38 Engineer Regiment RAF Aldergrove, Northern Barracks (Bks) Station/ Ireland Name of Regiment Location 39 Engineer Regiment (Air Waterbeach Bks, Waterbeach, The Household Cavalry Regiment Combermere Bks, Windsor Support) Cambs The Household Cavalry Mounted Hyde Park Bks, Knightsbridge, 42 Engineer Regiment Denison Bks, Hermitage, Berks Regiment London (Geographic) 101 Engineer Regiment Carver Bks, Wimbish (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Armoured Fighting Vehicles 62 Works Group Royal Chetwynd Bks, Chilwell, Notts Engineers 1 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 63 Works Group Royal Chetwynd Bks, Chilwell, Notts Defence (1) if he will estimate the cost per unit of Engineers 1 renovating (a) Mastiff, (b) Ridgback and (c) Jackal 64 Works Group Royal Chetwynd Bks, Chilwell, Notts vehicles to long-term service; [36078] Engineers 1 (2) how many (a) Mastiff, (b) Ridgback and (c) 66 Works Group Royal Chetwynd Bks, Chilwell, Notts Jackal vehicles will remain in long-term service. [36079] Engineers 1,2 67 Works Group Royal Chetwynd Bks, Chilwell, Notts Peter Luff: The Mastiff, Ridgback and Jackal vehicles Engineers 1,2 were purchased as urgent operational requirements, Work Group Royal Engineers Waterbeach Bks, Waterbeach, specific to the conditions and threats faced in Afghanistan (Airfields) 1 Cambs by our armed forces. No decision has yet been taken as 1 Royal School of Military Brompton Bks, Chatham, Kent to whether any of the 1,000 plus vehicles so far purchased Engineering Regiment will be taken into the core equipment programme. The 3 Royal School of Military Gibraltar Bks, Camberley, cost of renovating any vehicles will depend on the Engineering Regiment Surrey number of vehicles to be taken into the core equipment Royal Monmouthshire Royal The Castle, Monmouth, Gwent programme and the state of repair of these vehicles on Engineers (Militia) their return from theatre. 71 Engineer Regiment RAF Leuchars, St Andrews, (Volunteers) Fife Departmental Pay 72 Engineer Regiment Napier Armoury, Gateshead, (Volunteers) Tyne and Wear Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 73 Engineer Regiment TA Centre, Nottingham, Notts what allowances and payments in addition to salary (Volunteers) were available to officials in his Department and its 75 Engineer Regiment Peninsula Bks, Warrington, non-departmental public bodies in each year since (Volunteers) Cheshire 1997; and what the monetary value was of payments The Royal Signals and allowances of each type in each such year. [18726] Name of Regiment Station/Location Peter Luff: The Department currently has over 500 1st (United Kingdom) Armoured Hammersmith Barracks, Division Headquarters and Signal Herford (GE) pay-related allowances and payments in addition to Regiment salary available to civilian staff, the majority of which 2nd Signal Regiment Imphal Barracks, York are listed on the People, Pay and Pensions Agency 3rd (United Kingdom) Division Picton Barracks, Bulford (PPPA) website: Headquarters and Signal Regiment http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ 7th Signal Regiment Javelin Barracks, Elmpt (GE) [email protected]/pppa/ 10th Signal Regiment Basil Hill Site, Corsham index@page=content&id=us131&cat=pay_and_expenses &actp=list.htm 361W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 362W
Travel and subsistence claims and transfer allowances well an individual has performed against their peers and are payable to civilian staff, in addition to salary. These awards are made to those judged to have made the are listed on the PPPA website: greatest in-year contribution to business objectives. There http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ is no restriction on the nature of the contribution but it [email protected]/pppa/ must benefit the Department or defence more widely. index@page=content&id=pr200&cat=travel_and_subsistence Recommendations for awards are considered by moderation &actp=list.htm committees and must be linked to clear evidence of Information on the monetary value of each type of delivery. allowance and payment in each year since 1997 is not All satisfactory performers at SCS level were eligible held in the format requested, and could be provided to be considered for a non-consolidated performance only at disproportionate cost. However, information is award in line with Cabinet Office guidelines and the available from July 2007, but will take a short while to MOD pay strategy. compile. I will write to my hon. Friend with the information Financial year 2003-04 was the first year in which the as soon as possible. MOD paid non-consolidated performance awards to As the strategic defence and security review made any of its staff. clear, we intend to simplify the allowance structure, as The following table details how much was paid to part of an update of the current package of terms and members of the SCS in non-consolidated performance conditions of service. payments by financial year. Senior fixed term employees are individuals who are Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence recruited through fair and open competition from outside how much was paid to officials in his Department and the civil service. Those employed as senior fixed term its non-departmental public bodies in bonuses and appointees (FTAs) are on individual contracts and have other payments in addition to salary in each year since a higher percentage of pay set to performance awards 1997; how many officials received such payments; which are judged against stringent and stretching delivery and what the monetary value was of the largest 20 based objectives. Some have staged payments and it is payments made in each such year. [18725] now usual to pay a smaller annual performance award with the remainder deferred for two to three years and Mr Robathan: The information is as follows: judged against the delivery of medium to longer term Non-consolidated performance awards—MOD: A close objectives. Performance is judged by line management and effective link between pay and performance is a key with assistance from senior officials, stakeholders, element of the reward arrangements for the civil service. remuneration committees and in some cases internal The performance element of pay is colloquially known audit. as a bonus, but it is a misleading description because the Details of how much has been paid in non-consolidated performance-related element of pay is not additional, it awards and to how many SCS each year are shown in is part of the departmental pay bill. tables 1 and 2. Table 3 shows the monetary values of the For the senior civil service (SCS) performance incentives largest non-consolidated payments made in each year are paid primarily as non-consolidated performance to the combined SCS population of permanent staff payments. Any award is based on a judgment of how and fixed term appointees.
Table 1—SCS permanent staff Performance year 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 Financial year 2010-11 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05
Number of 169 195 187 186 181 181 136 awards paid Value of 995,500 1,594,500 1,501,700 1,325,700 1,178,500 899,822 711,737 awards paid (£)
Table 2—SCS fixed term appointees SCS FTA performance year 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 Financial year 2010-11 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05
Number of 117 27 16 10 12 16 13 awards paid Value of 338,122 838,393 333,915 78,874 80,478 119,688 80,347 awards paid (£) 1 Six yet to be decided 363W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 364W
Table 3—Top 20 highest non-consolidated awards for combined SCS Table 3—Top 20 highest non-consolidated awards for combined SCS population population Financial year £ Financial year £
2010-11 49,937 24,000 49,900 23,085 35,113 22,085 25,755 22,000 24,360 21,546 22,153 20,480 17,000 19,000 15,750 17,163 15,605 17,091 15,000 15,000 2007-08 63,000 13,800 50,000 12,500 48,000 12,500 24,000 12,500 21,000 12,500 20,000 12,500 18,468 12,500 17,716 12,485 17,600 10,674 17,600 17,340 2009-10 84,563 15,450 75,000 15,341 72,540 14,500 55,350 14,500 50,000 12,750 50,000 12,750 48,720 12,240 48,000 10,690 31,470 10,000 30,750 30,000 2006-07 19,253 30,000 16,000 25,765 14,721 24,101 14,000 22,888 14,000 21,337 14,000 21,033 14,000 16,200 12,546 15,000 11,000 15,000 11,000 11,000 2008-09 88,296 11,000 61,250 10,000 50,000 10,000 48,000 10,000 37,675 10,000 31,703 10,000 30,780 10,000 30,000 10,000 30,000 10,000 30,000 27,600 2005-06 14,340 365W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 366W
Table 3—Top 20 highest non-consolidated awards for combined SCS In 2007 the Department moved to a new pay system population and the ability to interrogate payments made through Financial year £ the SBS before this date has been diminished and therefore 12,250 any effort now to try and access this data would require a disproportionate cost. SBS data is though available 10,000 for financial years 2003-04 to 2006-07 because it was 10,000 reported in previous parliamentary questions. 10,000 The following table details the total value of payments 10,000 made to staff below the SCS by way of non consolidated 9,000 performance payments and SBS awards by financial 9,000 year. 9.000 Total value of Total number of 7,863 Financial year awards made (£) awards made1 7,500 2003-04 24,113,406 39,369 7,500 2004-05 33,947,217 46,269 7,500 2005-06 43,038,937 49,093 7,500 2006-07 41,060,624 55,339 7,500 2007-08 46,256,490 61,878 2008-09 47,516,913 71,940 7,500 2009-10 44,231,916 66,585 7,500 2010-11 0 0 7,500 1 It is not possible to state how many individuals received awards since 7,500 the data is held as number of awards made and not the number of recipients. 7,500 Note: Figures for financial year 2010-11 will not be available before 30 April 2004-05 11,358 2011 since SBS awards are payable in year. 10,445 This response excludes information on staff below 9.821 the SCS in MOD trading funds which have separate pay delegations. 9,203 With the exception of the National Museum of the 8,777 Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force Museum, figures 8.759 for the Department’s non-departmental public bodies 8.695 are included in the figures above. 8.650 Like the MOD, financial year 2003-04 was the first 8.600 year in which non-consolidated performance awards 8,540 were paid to staff at the National Museum of the Royal Navy. The following table details the total value of 8,463 payments made to staff by way of non consolidated 8,365 performance payments awards by financial year. 8,256 8,226 Total value of Financial awards made Number of staff Value of largest 8,226 year (£) receiving awards 20 payments 8,125 2003-04 12,100 19 £425-£1,300 7.400 2004-05 19,650 21 £625-£2,100 7,370 2005-06 21,860 20 £625-£2,025 7,069 2006-07 20,525 23 £300-£2,900 7,004 2007-08 21,750 29 £400-£1,560 2008-09 27,020 43 £400-£1,565 2009-10 5,203 37 All £141 For staff below the SCS, non-consolidated performance awards are paid to staff who meet the eligibility criteria. The National Museum of the Royal Navy has no Higher levels of award are available for those who have special bonus scheme. contributed most to the business. These awards are The Museum does not keep records going back to distributed on the basis of relative assessment among 1997, but since 2004 non-consolidated performance peers and are designed to encourage continuous high awards and other payments have been available for staff attainment against stretching objectives. employed by the museum and its trading subsidiary The MOD also operates an in year non-consolidated through one or more of the following: payment scheme, the special bonus scheme (SBS), which a special bonus scheme (typically £7,000 per annum in total rewards eligible MOD civilians for exceptional performance has been set aside and payments to staff have been of the order in a specific task or for the achievement of a professional of £250 to £1,000, generally under 10 awards each year), qualification the use of which benefits MOD and the performance related pay (where the level of award has varied individual. Separate arrangements apply to Ministry of between a percentage-based amount or cash sum—both non Defence police (MDP) officers. consolidated—and is linked to the annual appraisal—individual 367W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 368W
payments typically being between £400 and £1,000 although in http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ individual cases have been up to £3,000), costing the Museum [email protected]/pppa/ approximately £100,000 per year, index@page=content&id=pr200&cat=travel_and_ ‘incentivised’ contracts for key trading subsidiary managers subsistence&actp=list.htm (head of retail or head of corporate events) where payments Information on the monetary value of each type of allowance have varied from zero to over £3,000, depending on the trading and payment in each year for financial years 1997 to 2007 for the subsidiary’s performance and a percentage-based award for Department is not held in the format requested and could only be more junior trading subsidiary staff (typically 1% of salary) provided at disproportionate cost for such a large number of the cost falling on the trading subsidiary, allowances and payments. in the case of the director general (until this year) through the Information is available from 2007-2008. However, due to a non-consolidated performance award scheme applicable to change in pay systems not all personnel were on the payroll until senior civil servants, again linked to the annual appraisal July 2007. This information is attached for your reference, and process where payments in excess of £10,000 have been made, will be placed in the Library of the House. No award was made in 2009 and the system does not apply to The MOD has two NDPBs which have separate pay and the newly-appointed director general. grading delegations, the National Museum for the Royal Navy The largest payments made were to the director general and the Royal Air Force Museum. Information on the National under the conditions set out in the last paragraph and Museum for the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force Museum the directors (where performance awards were percentage- from 2004 will be placed in the Library of the House. Information based) although these would have generally been below on the monetary value of each type of allowance and payment in each year for financial years 1997 to 2004 is not held by the Royal £5,000. Air Force Museum in the format requested and could only be Other payments: The Department currently has over provided at disproportionate cost. 500 pay-related allowances and payments in addition to salary available to civilian staff. The majority of which Trident are listed on the People, Pay and Pensions Agency services website: Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ what preparatory work for the assessment phase for the [email protected]/pppa/ replacement programme for Trident has been commissioned index@page=content&id=us131&cat=pay_and_ on (a) the hull structure and structural fittings, including expenses&actp=list.htm on castings and forgings and on steel and control surfaces, In addition allowances and payments in addition to (b) primary and secondary propulsion systems and (c) salary in regard to civilian travel and subsistence claims electrical generation, conversion and distribution, including and transfer allowances are payable. These are listed on turbo generators, platform management system software, the PPPA services website: main switchboards, internal communications, diesel generators, main static converters, main DC distribution, http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ distribution convertors, cathodic protection system, the [email protected]/pppa/ index@page=content&id=pr200&cat=travel_and_ degaussing system, computer information systems, main subsistence&actp=list.htm battery, and remote visual surveillance system; from which companies such work has been commissioned in Information on the monetary value of each type of each case; and what the value is of each such contract. allowance and payment in each year since 1997 is not held in the format requested and could be provided only [35910] at disproportionate cost for such a large number of Peter Luff: Two of the purposes of the concept phase allowances and payments. Information is available from of the programme to replace the Vanguard submarines July 2007, but will take a short while to compile. I will are to identify technology and procurement options for write to my hon. Friend with the details as soon as meeting the requirement, and to provide information to possible. support initial gate decisions. Substantive answer from Andrew Robathan to Priti During the concept phase the Ministry of Defence Patel, dated 25 January 2011: has placed contracts with Rolls-Royce Power Engineering I undertook to write to you in relation to my answer to your plc that include design and development work for the Parliamentary Question on 11 November 2010 (Official Report, primary propulsion plant, with design verification and columns 439-45W), regarding bonuses and other payments in validation activities, to a value of some £220 million. A addition to salary paid to officials in the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and its Non-Departmental Public Bodies (NDPBs). My number of technical demonstrator contracts have also hon. Friend, the Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and been placed with industry and other bodies to inform Technology (Peter Luff), also undertook to write to you in work on the options and recommendations made in the relation to his answer to your Parliamentary Question on 27 initial gate business case. October 2010 (Official Report, column 374W) regarding the same Some of this work will inform decisions on the purchase subject. I shall respond to both questions. of the long lead items listed in the question, but further The MOD currently has over 500 pay-related allowances and information is not held centrally and to attempt to payments in addition to salary available to civilian staff, the reconcile the information against the list of long lead majority of which are listed on the People, Pay and Pensions Agency services website: items given could be done only at disproportionate cost. http://www.pppaservices.qinetiq-tim.com/ [email protected]/pppa/ Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence index@page=content&id=us131&cat=pay_and_ (1) what work his Department has commissioned on expenses&actp=list.htm spatial arrangements covering boat compartments In addition, allowances and payments in addition to salary in under the assessment phase of the Vanguard regard to Civilian Travel and Subsistence Claims and Transfer submarine replacement for Trident programme to date; allowances are payable. These are listed on the PPPA Services and what the monetary value is of each contract for website: such research and design work; [35907] 369W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 370W
(2) what enabling work has been contracted on (a) Estimate of alcohol-related admissions for selected age groups for the value engineering and (b) the management of design years 2002-03 to 2009-10 in England margins under the assessment phase of the Vanguard Admissions submarine replacement for Trident programme; what 13-15 years 16-19 years 20-24 years the monetary value is of each such contract; and how 2002-03 3,804 13,777 18,210 much has been spent under each such contract to date; 2003-04 4,313 15,075 20,290 [35908] 2004-05 4,337 16,994 22,599 (3) what contracts have been placed to undertake 2005-06 4,700 19,792 25,461 research and development work on (a) combat system 2006-07 4,578 20,583 26,447 design and engineering and (b) primary and secondary 2007-08 4,250 21,503 27,862 propulsion design and engineering for the assessment 2008-09 3,317 20,691 28,693 phase of the replacement programme for Trident; and 2009-10 3,331 21,470 30,488 what the value is of each such contract; [35911] Notes: (4) what contracts have been placed to undertake 1. Estimate of Alcohol-related admissions research and development work on (a) combat system Alcohol-related admissions design and engineering and (b) primary and secondary The number of alcohol-related admissions is estimated, based on the methodology developed by the North West Public Health Observatory propulsion design and engineering in respect of the (NWPHO). Figures for under 16s only include admissions where one assessment phase for the Vanguard submarine replacement or more of the following alcohol-specific conditions were listed: programme for Trident; and what the monetary value is Alcoholic cardiomyopathy (I42.6) of each such contract; [36065] Alcoholic gastritis (K29.2) Alcoholic liver disease (K70) (5) which companies have been contracted to date Alcoholic myopathy (G72.1) (a) to deliver System Drawings and Equipment Technical Alcoholic polyneuropathy (G62.1) Specifications and (b) to demonstrate system performance Alcohol-induced pseudo-Cushing’s syndrome (E24.4) and compliance with system functional requirements Chronic pancreatitis (alcohol induced) (K86.0) under the assessment phase for the Vanguard submarine Degeneration of nervous system due to alcohol (G31.2) Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of alcohol (F10) replacement for Trident programme; and what the monetary Accidental poisoning by and exposure to alcohol (X45) value is of his Department’s contract with each such Ethanol poisoning (T51.0) company. [35923] Methanol poisoning (T51.1) Toxic effect of alcohol, unspecified (T51.9) Peter Luff: No such contracts have been placed as the The application of the NWPHO methodology was updated in summer 2010 and is now available directly from HES. As such, information programme to replace the Vanguard Class submarine about episodes estimated to be alcohol related may be slightly different has yet to enter the assessment phase. from previously published data. 2. Age at start of episode This derived field, calculated from episode start date (epistart) and date of birth (dob), contains the patient’s age in whole years HEALTH 3. Finished admission episodes A finished admission episode (FAE) is the first period of in-patient care under one consultant within one health care provider. FAEs are Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse counted against the year in which the admission episode finishes. Admissions do not represent the number of in-patients, as a person may have more than one admission within the year. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 4. Assessing growth through time what assessment he has made of long-term trends in HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the hospital admittances for alcohol consumption by figures over time need to be interpreted in the context of improvements teenagers. [35802] in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from 2006-07) and changes in national health service practice. For example, apparent Anne Milton: Alcohol misuse is a major public health reductions in activity may be due to a number of procedures which issue. We know that teenagers can be especially vulnerable may now be undertaken in out-patient settings and so no longer to the harmful effects of drinking. ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy include in admitted patient HES data. People’, published in December 2010, sets out how we Source: can best harness the effects of individuals, families, Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for local and national government and the private, voluntary health and social care and community sectors to take better care of our children’s Cancer: Health Services health and development. The Government’s new drug strategy, published in Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2010, includes measures to prevent young Health (1) what recent discussions he has had with people’s alcohol misuse by providing accurate information, representatives of the Cancer Network on his proposed simplified guidance for schools and a review of Personal reform of NHS structures; [35530] Social Health and Economic education (PSHE). (2) what plans he has for the future relationship Data on the number of alcohol-related hospital between cancer networks and (a) the NHS Commissioning admissions are collected by the Health and Social Care Board, (b) Public Health England and (c) GP consortia. Information Centre and published in their annual Statistics [35531] on Alcohol, England report. The most recent estimates show that hospital admissions of teenagers aged 13 to Paul Burstow: Cancer networks have had a crucial 15 have started to decrease, while hospital admissions role in improving the quality of cancer treatment and for 16 to 19 and 20 to 24-year-olds are still increasing. patient experience of care—they have helped commissioners, Estimates of the number of teenage alcohol-related providers and patients work together to plan and deliver hospital admissions is given in the following table. high quality cancer services. We know that general 371W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 372W practitioner consortiums will need commissioning support, and above were treated for cannabis addiction in each and cancer networks will be well placed to provide that. of the last 10 years. [36223] We have said in ‘Improving Outcomes: A Strategy for Cancer’ that next year there will be funding for cancer Anne Milton: The following tables show the number networks to support commissioning. However, we will of people in treatment for cannabis use, broken down not pre-empt future decisions by the NHS Commissioning by age. Board by committing funding beyond 2011-12. Trends in age group for those in treatment for cannabis use Cancer networks currently play a role in promoting 18-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40+ Total the prevention and early detection of cancer. In the 2005-06 4,735 1,910 1,654 1,325 1,481 11,105 future, Public Health England might wish to work with cancer networks on these issues. 2006-07 5,501 2,093 1,760 1,488 1,815 12,657 2007-08 5,717 2,199 1,730 1,431 1,928 13,005 No recent discussions have taken place between Ministers 2008-09 6,205 2,321 1,672 1,390 1,937 13,525 and representatives of cancer networks. 2009-10 6,665 2,505 1,733 1,321 2,085 14,309 Source: Cannabis: Mentally Ill Statistics from the National Drug Treatment Monitoring System (NDTMS) 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Under 18s in treatment for cannabis use Health what research his Department has (a) commissioned Number and (b) evaluated on the potential relationship between 2005-06 9,043 cannabis and skunk cannabis and psychosis or 2006-07 10,824 schizophrenia; and if he will make a statement. [36118] 2007-08 12,021 2008-09 12,642 Anne Milton: The Government asked the Advisory 2009-10 13,123 Council on the Misuse of Drugs to reassess the latest Source: evidence on the health harms of cannabis, including the Substance misuse among young people: the data for 2009-10 risks to young people in 2007. The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse Their report, ‘Cannabis: Classification and Public assumed responsibility for the National Drug Treatment Health (2008)’, was published in May 2008 and found a Monitoring System (NDTMS) in 2003. The introduction probable but weak causal link between psychotic illness of a new NDTMS methodology in 2008-09 means that and cannabis use, but whether this will become stronger year-on-year comparable trend data are only available with the wider use of higher potency cannabis remains from 2005-06. uncertain. Subsequently, in 2009 we updated the FRANK website Departmental Communication with new information on the harms of cannabis reflecting the scientific consensus. Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he has taken to reduce jargon and promote Cannabis: Misuse plain English in Departmental communications. [35786]
Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: Earlier in 2010 the Communications Health what NHS treatment is available for persons Directorate in the Department of Health commissioned (a) under 18 and (b) 18 and over for addiction to work to help the Department communicate better with cannabis or skunk cannabis; and if he will make a the public, staff and patients. statement. [36119] This work comprised a review of a large body of research existing within the Department which can be Anne Milton: Psychosocial interventions are the mainstay described as “message testing”. As a result of this of treatment for cannabis misuse for people of all ages. review, Department of Health Communications has ‘Drug misuse and dependence UK guidelines on clinical produced a source book which provides practical, evidence- management (2007)’ notes that there are no medications based principles that can be used by anyone within the suitable for treating cannabis misuse and advises that Department who is writing communications for both clinicians should consider psychosocial interventions, internal and external audiences. It sets out in clear especially brief motivational interventions in mild cases. terms the type of language which both public and More heavily dependent misusers may require structured national health service staff find clear, unambiguous treatment. In cases of co-morbidity with depression and jargon free. and anxiety, treatment will include cognitive behavioural We are currently working on ways in which the findings therapies. from this project can be disseminated across the With regard to under-18s, local authorities will be Department. supported in carrying out a local needs assessment and planning for the full range of services that will respond Departmental Manpower to young people’s substance misuse needs, and also enable them to have clear protocols in place to meet the Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for needs of vulnerable young people. Health pursuant to the answer of 6 December 2010, Official Report, column 1285W,on departmental manpower, Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for what the (a) organisations and (b) job titles are of the Health how many people (a) under the age of 18, (b) six members of the Steering Group below Senior Civil between 18 and 24, (c) between 24 and 30 and (d) 30 Service level. [35857] 373W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 374W
Anne Milton: The following table gives the details of Mr Simon Burns: The White Paper “Equity and the organisations and job titles of the six members of Excellence: Liberating the NHS” marked the start of the steering group below senior civil service level: the consultation on the Government’s vision to devolve power and responsibility for commissioning services to Organisation Title local consortia of general practitioner (GP) practices. The Government’s response to the White Paper published Department of Health, Health Programme Manager, Drugs and Wellbeing Division Policy in December 2010, “Liberating the NHS: legislative National Treatment Agency for Senior Academic Advisor framework and next steps”, outlined the views expressed, Substance Misuse including on partnership working between hospital National Treatment Agency for Programme Manager consultants and GPs. Substance Misuse The views expressed during the consultation highlighted Medicines and Healthcare products Strategy Business Manager the importance of multi-professional involvement in Regulatory Authority commissioning. Medicines and Healthcare products Specialist in Self Medication The Government recognise that commissioning by Regulatory Authority consortia is not just about GPs—good commissioning Department of Health, Medicines Policy Manager, Community Pharmacy and Industry Pharmacy and designing care pathways will need to involve a wide range of clinicians. But we think that consortia of GP practices are also best placed to use the wealth of Depressive Illnesses expertise. This is why the Health and Social Care Bill provides for consortia to ensure that they have appropriate Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health advice from professionals with expertise in health. if he will assess long-term trends in rates of depression Influenza: Vaccination among those aged (a) 15 to 19, (b) 20 to 24 and (c) 65 years and over. [35799] Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health on what dates the seasonal influenza advertising Paul Burstow: This information is not included in the campaign was launched in each of the last five years. Department’s regular statistical terms and is not available [36263] for the age groups requested. However, some information is available from the report ‘AdultPsychiatric Morbidity Anne Milton: Seasonal influenza vaccination campaigns in England, 2007—Results of a Household Survey’, were run in 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10. In published jointly by the Office of National Statistics 2009-10, the campaign started in late September. In and the National Health Service Information Centre. A 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09, the campaigns started in copy has been placed in the Library. The following table October. gives information on the percentage of people in the Lorazepam available age groups who were suffering from a mixed anxiety and depression disorder in 1993, 2000 and 2007. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 21 December 2010, Percentage Official Report, columns 1265-8W, on benzodiazepines, Age group 16-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 what is meant by the term not confirmed which was given as the legislative basis for 17 generic lorazepam 1993 8.3 8.4 6.8 5.0 — licenses. [35855] 2002 9.9 9.9 9.3 7.5 5.2 2007 10.5 8.5 11.2 8.0 6.4 Mr Simon Burns: The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency holds data on medicinal products on an electronic database. The database is Drugs: Misuse searchable and can be used to bring back information such as the legal basis of an application as requested in Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for relation to the lorazepam products. Historically, the Health when he plans to publish his review of prescription legal basis of an application has not been recorded in a drug addiction; and what consultation on that review he searchable form and thereafter this has been established proposes to undertake following publication. [35856] by manually reviewing available records. Where the precise legal basis has not been confirmed Anne Milton: The reports commissioned to gather from the manual search that has been shown as ‘not evidence on addiction to medicines will be published confirmed’. However, the reply of 21 December 2010, early this year and we expect this to be before Easter Official Report, columns 1265-8W,was clear in explaining recess. Following publication, we will be involving interested that the applications would have been made under parties to determine the future direction of policy and article 4.8a (of directive 65/65/EEC) which made provision service planning. for an abridged application, that is, an application made without supplying results of toxicological tests and Health Services clinical trials. MMR Vaccine Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what discussions his Department has had on Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for integration between hospital consultants and GPs in Health how many infants have suffered (a) allergic, order to improve patient pathways; and if he will make (b) serious, (c) critical and (d) fatal reactions to the a statement. [35735] MMR vaccine in each of the last five years. [35841] 375W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 376W
Anne Milton: Reports of suspected adverse reactions To support the wide availability of data to help drive (ADRs) are collected by the Medicines and Healthcare further reductions in MRSA, we have introduced weekly products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Commission publications of data for both MRSA bloodstream infections for Human Medicines (CHM) through the spontaneous and C. difficile infections at hospital-site level. reporting scheme, the Yellow Card Scheme. The scheme We are also committed to ensuring that the NHS collects ADR reports from across the whole United continue to have access to evidence-based guidance in Kingdom for all medicines and vaccines. order to reduce the number of all HCAIs, including Between 1 January 2006 and 31 December 2010, the MRSA, through the implementation of effective infection MHRA has received a total of 418 UK spontaneous prevention and control practices. As part of this ‘suspected’ ADR reports associated with the MMR commitment, a comprehensive suite of updated guidance vaccine in children aged five years or under. During this was published on the Department’s “Clean, Safe Care” time, at least 5 million doses of MMR vaccine have website on 6 January 2011. been given in the United Kingdom. The following table The Health and Social Care Act 2008 “Code of provides a breakdown of these reports. Practice for health and adult social care on the Prevention and Control of Infections and related guidance”, which Total number of: the Care Quality Commission use as a basis for assessing serious allergic fatal compliance with the registration requirement on cleanliness ADRs ADRs ADRs ADRs and infection control, has been a driver for improvement in the hospital setting. We extended the scope of the 2006 108 55 2 2 Code to adult social care settings from October 2010 2007 59 25 1 2 and will include primary care in due course so that we 2008 76 31 1 0 can ensure that all settings where patients receive care 2009 82 40 2 3 and treatment operate comparable infection prevention 2010 93 51 2 1 and control practices. It is important to note that such reports relate to Multiple Sclerosis suspected adverse reactions. Reports may be adverse reactions to the vaccine, they may be related to the Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for process of vaccination rather than to the vaccine itself Health (1) whether the multiple sclerosis clinical (e.g. nervousness or anxiety about needle injection); or guidelines will be reviewed by the National Institute for they may be purely coincidental events that would have Health and Clinical Excellence; when he expects his occurred anyway in the absence of vaccination (e.g. Department’s review of the guidelines to commence; events due to underlying medical conditions). These and if he will make a statement; [35174] reports cannot therefore be used to calculate the true (2) if he will review the multiple sclerosis clinical frequency of adverse reactions. guideline for the purpose of ensuring that it is up-to-date. [36022] MRSA Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for and Clinical Excellence (NICE) routinely reviews its Health what steps he is taking to reduce the number of published guidance, but we understand that it has not at cases of MRSA. [36067] this point set out a timescale for considering whether a review of its clinical guideline on multiple sclerosis is appropriate. Mr Simon Burns: Although the national health service has made significant reductions in the number of NICE is an independent body and the Department Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) does not review the clinical guidelines it produces. bacteraemias (bloodstream infections), this Government NHS Foundation Trusts: Community Care are determined to do all they can to support the health and adult social care providers to make further Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Health improvements. From the outset, through the coalition what discussions his Department has had on the agreement, this Government made clear that they expected acquisition of community assets by foundation trusts the NHS to adopt a zero tolerance approach to all which have taken over community services; and if he health care associated infections (HCAIs), including will make a statement. [35734] MRSA. The “NHS Operating Framework 2011-12”, published Mr Simon Burns: The Department has discussed with in December, requires the NHS to continue prioritising the national health service, HM Treasury, the Government the achievement of the MRSA Objective, as well as the Property Unit and the Homes and Communities Agency new Clostridium difficile (C. difficile) Objective. These the transfer of assets currently owned by NHS primary Objectives, through their successful implementation, care trusts (PCTs) that support the delivery of community will have a significant impact on reducing variation by services. moving all organisations towards the performance of On 6 January 2011, the Department announced in the best and consequently will at the same time reduce support of the Transforming Community Services agenda numbers at a national level. that all aspirant community foundation trusts would We have also, from the end of December 2010, extended have the opportunity to acquire PCT owned estate that the previous requirement for the NHS to screen all supports the services they are taking over. The future relevant elective admissions to also include relevant ownership and management of the remaining estate emergency admissions. owned by PCTs is being considered. 377W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 378W
Obesity The proportion of adults aged 16 and over recorded as obese by SHA for 2008 is available in Table 7.3 on Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health page 194 of the “Health Survey for England—2008: what the incidence of (a) childhood and (b) adult Physical activity and fitness”. The information is available obesity was in each (i) local authority area, (ii) health from the following link: authority area and (iii) constituency in each year for www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse08physicalactivity which figures are available. [35796] All these publications have already been placed in the Library. Anne Milton: Information is not available in the format requested. Prescriptions Information on the percentage of obese children in England is available in the “Health Survey for England— Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2009 trend tables”, Child trend tables, Table 4. Information what assessment he has made of long-term trends in is provided for children aged two to 15 in England for prescriptions for (a) headaches, (b) indigestion and the years 1995 to 2009. This information is available (c) sleeping disorders; and if he will make a statement. from the following link: [35801] www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends Mr Simon Burns: No such assessment has been The proportion of children aged two to 15 recorded undertaken. Prescribing figures for medicines classified as obese by strategic health authority (SHA) for 2008 is in the British National Formulary (BNF) to treat the available in Table 13.3 on page 327 of the “Health conditions listed, covering the latest available 10-year Survey for England—2008: Physical activity and fitness”. period, are provided. Information on the indication for The information is available from the following link: which a medicine is prescribed, is not collected centrally. www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse08physicalactivity Number of prescription items written in the United Kingdom and Further information on the prevalence of obesity in dispensed in the community in England for medicines classified in the children at a primary care trust (PCT) and local authority British National Formulary (BNF) to treat headaches, indigestion and (LA) level is available through the National Child sleeping disorders Measurement Programme. Information is available for Thousand children in Reception (four to five years) and year six BNF (10 to 11 years) for the years 2006-07 to 2009-10. section 1.1 BNF Information showing prevalence of obesity among children Dyspepsia section 1.3 and gastro- Antisecretory BNF in these two school years by LA, PCT, SHA and for BNF oesophageal drugs and section England is available for each year from the following section 4.7 reflux mucusoal 4.1.1 links: Analgesics1 disease2 protectants2 Hypnotics3
Tables 2 and 3 of the accompanying excel file of the “National 2000 42,849.1 6,936.3 17,231.0 10,645.2 Child Measurement Programme: England, 2009/10 school year” report is available on the NHS Information Centre website at: 2001 44,017.3 6,672.4 18,951.3 10,709.3 2002 44,698.7 6,356.3 20,613.2 10,673.7 www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- 2003 45,779.2 6,047.2 22,392.7 10,638.8 england-2009-10-school-year 2004 46,553.5 5,847.4 24,524.3 10,520.0 Tables 2 and 3 of the accompanying excel file of the “National 2005 47,624.3 5,457.0 26,949.8 10,069.3 Child Measurement Programme: England, 2008/09 school year” 2006 48,927.4 5,030.1 29,571.1 9,924.4 report is available on the NHS Information Centre website at: 2007 51,600.8 4,947.1 32,669.4 10,072.1 www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- 2008 54,511.5 4,874.7 36,068.6 10,127.1 lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- 2009 57,455.2 4,780.9 39,660.0 10,250.9 england-2008-09-school-year 1 There are no specific drugs for headache and so the figures are for all Table 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the accompanying excel file of “National medicines in BNF section 4.7 analgesics, including those used for Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2007/08 school migraine. 2 year”, headline results report is available on the NHS Information Indigestion is usually treated with antacids, antisecretory drugs or Centre website at: mucusoal protectants. The figures are for BNF sections 1.1 Dyspepsia and gastro-oesophageal reflux disease and 1.3 Antisecretory drugs www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- and mucusoal protectants. Some of the drugs in section 1.3 are also lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- used for other purposes such as in the treatment of ulcers. results-from-the-school-year-2007-08 3 Most sleeping disorders would be treated with a short course of Table 2, 3 and 4 of the accompanying excel file of “National hypnotics, as listed in BNF section 4.1.1 Hypnotics. Some of these Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2006/07 school drugs may be used for other treatments. year”, headline results report is available on the NHS Information Source: Prescription cost analysis (PCA) system Centre website at: www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- Smoking: Health Services lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- results-from-the-2006-07-school-year Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on the percentage of obese adults aged Health how many people attended NHS smoking cessation 16 and over in England is available in the “Health services in each quarter since 1 April 2009. [35979] Survey for England—2009 trend tables”, Adult trend tables, Table 4. Information is provided for adults in Anne Milton: Information on people setting a quit England for the years 1993 to 2009. This information is date, through the national health service stop smoking available from the following link: services, and successful quitters by quarter since 1 April www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends 2009, is shown in the following table: 379W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 380W
Number of people in England setting a quit date and successful Anne Milton: The following table shows how much quitters1 since 1 April 2009 funding the Department has allocated to public health Number of Percentage who advertising campaigns on smoking in each quarter since Number setting successful successfully 1 April 2009: Quarters a quit date quitters quit
April to 185,852 89,358 48 £ June 20092 July to 167,423 79,842 48 Q1 April-June 2009 1,738,880 September Q2 July-September 2009 2,792,414 20092 Q3 October-December 2009 4,374,811 October to 161,056 79,962 50 Q4 January-March 2010 5,887,332 December 20092 Q1 April-June 2010 85,836 January to 243,206 124,792 51 March Q2 July-September 2010 0 20102 Q3 October-December 2010 110,854 April to 183,030 85,749 47 June 20103 A total budget figure for the 2010-11 financial year July to 158,425 76,504 48 cannot be provided at this stage because detailed planning September for additional marketing communications work is underway 20103 and allocations for advertising media have not yet been 1 A client is counted as a successful quitter smoking at the four week finalised. follow-up appointment if he/she has not smoked at all since two weeks after quit date. Advertising spend is defined as covering only media 2 Quarterly Data, which has been finalised by The Health and Social spend (inclusive of agency commissions but excluding Care Information Centre, Lifestyle Statistics. production costs, Central Office of Information commission 3 Quarterly data has been published for the first two quarters of and VAT). All figures exclude advertising rebates and 2010-11. This data remains provisional until the end of year 2010-11 audit adjustments and therefore may differ from Central report is published, expected to be in August 2011. Source: Office of Information official turnover figures. The Health and Social Care Information Centre, Lifestyle Statistics These figures are provisional for 2010 because the Only people who set a quit date through the NHS invoicing for some campaigns run towards the end of stop smoking services are included in the Quarterly the year has not yet have been completed. Monitoring Returns. Those who attend the service but do not set a quit date are not included. Swine Flu: Vaccination The data on the number of quit attempts for quarters April to June 2010 and July to September 2010 are Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health provisional. if he will review the medical advice on vaccination Information on people setting a quit date and successful against swine influenza in view of the death of Lana quitters, by quarter, 2001-02 to 2009-10 is contained Ameen. [35166] within table 2.2 of “Statistics on NHS Stop Smoking Services: England; April 2009 to March 2010”. Anne Milton: The Government’s policy on influenza This publication has already been placed in the Library. vaccination is informed by the expert advice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI). Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for In their statement of 23 July, JCVI recommended that Health how many people made calls to the NHS stop those children with clinical conditions which put them smoking quitline in each quarter since 1 April 2009. more at risk from the effects of influenza should be [35981] offered the vaccine. JCVI met on 30 December to review the latest evidence Anne Milton: The following table shows the number on this issue following the meeting, the JCVI Chairman of people who made calls to the national health service assured the Secretary of State for Health that this stop smoking quitline in each quarter since 1 April advice remains appropriate, and recommended that efforts 2009: be focused on maximising vaccine uptake among all those in the risk groups. As with all vaccination programmes, Number JCVI will keep this matter under review.
Q1 April-June 2009 60,131 Worcestershire Royal Hospital: Private Finance Q2 July-September 2009 50,181 Initiative Q3 October-December 2009 48,543 Q4 January-March 2010 137,126 Mr Robin Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what his latest estimate is of costs (a) incurred Q1 April-June 2010 24,740 to date and (b) to be incurred in the remaining period Q2 July-September 2010 20,497 of the private finance initiative contract for the Q3 October-December 2010 18,123 Worcestershire Royal Hospital. [35816]
Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: The cost incurred to date in respect Health how much funding his Department has allocated of the private finance initiative (PFI) contract for Worcester to public health advertising campaigns on smoking in Acute Hospitals National Health Service Trust since each quarter since 1 April 2009. [35982] the new hospital opened in March 1999 is estimated to 381W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 382W be £233.1 million. This is the total of the annual unitary Number in receipt of incapacity benefits, employment and support payments paid by the national health service trust to the allowance and disability living allowance in Reading West private sector consortium for all the services it provides parliamentary constituency under the contract such as construction, provision of DLA IB/SDA ESA building maintenance and facilities management such May 3,680 2,570 — as catering, cleaning and portering, information technology 2010 and equipment provision and replacement. May 3,380 2,720 — This figure is based on the audited summarisation 2009 schedules of the trust for 2003-04 to 2008-09 held by the May 3,180 2,960 — Department (which it only has for six years on the same 2008 May 2,980 2,950 — accounting standard); and estimates for 1999-2000 to 2007 2002-03 and 2009-10 based on other information held May 2,860 2,970 — and standard assumptions about inflation. 2006 The estimated cost to be incurred for the remaining May 2,750 2,950 — 19 years of the PFI contract is £619 million. This is a 2005 projection based on the estimated payment for 2009-10 May 2,610 2,910 — uprated annually using a retail prices index (RPI) figure 2004 of 2.5% (used as a long-term average estimate). It must May 2,460 2,700 — be noted that the annual unitary payments fluctuate 2003 both up and down as a result of contractor performance, May 2,330 2,620 — additional services requested by the trust or taken out, 2002 the effects of refinancings and changes to RPI, so these May 2,100 2,670 — 2001 figures are only estimates. May 2,100 2,680 — 2000 May 2,000 2,400 — 1999 WORK AND PENSIONS May 1,900 2,700 760 1998 Disability Living Allowance: Halifax May 1,900 2,900 360 1997 Notes: Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1. May 1997 to May 1999 incapacity benefit figures and May 1997 to and Pensions how many people in Halifax constituency May 2001 disability living allowance figures are based on sample data claim the mobility component of disability living and are therefore subject to a degree of sampling variation. 2. 5% sample figures are rounded to the nearest hundred, and 100% allowance. [35956] case loads to the nearest 10. 3. 5% sample figures have been uprated using 5% proportions against Maria Miller: The information is reproduced in the 100% WPLS totals. following table. 4. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. Recipients of the mobility component of disability living allowance in 5. Published benefit data reflect the 2010 parliamentary constituencies Halifax parliamentary constituency. May 2010 from May 2010 data onwards. Prior to May 2010 the Westminster Number parliamentary constituencies for 2005 have been used. 6. DLA figures are in payment. Higher rate 2,970 Source: Lower rate 1,630 1997-99 IB/SDA figures and 1997-2001 DLA figures Information Total 4,600 Directorate 5% samples IB/SDA 2000 onwards, DLA 2002 onwards and ESA figures DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Notes: Longitudinal Study 100% data. 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Totals may not sum due to rounding. Employment and Support Allowance 3. Totals show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and exclude people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 4. Parliamentary constituency of claimant (Westminster). These and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 11 January constituencies are used for the Westminster Parliament 2010. 2011, Official Report, column 252W, on incapacity 5. Data are published on the Department’s website at benefit: unpaid work, if he will make it his policy to http://83.244.183.180/100pc/tabtool.html Source: ensure that persons found to be fit for work are DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal ineligible to claim employment and support allowance; Study. and if he will make a statement. [36211]
Disability Living Allowance: Reading West Maria Miller: People who have been found fit for work following a work capability assessment will not be Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Work eligible to claim employment and support allowance as and Pensions how many people in Reading West they will no longer meet the eligibility conditions for constituency were in receipt of (a) disability living that benefit. They may be eligible to claim other benefits. allowance and (b) employment support allowance or It should be noted, that people claiming benefits on incapacity benefit at the commencement of each the grounds of incapacity can undertake a range of financial year since 1997-98. [35850] activities, including certain unpaid work and continue to be entitled to benefit. These rules are known as Maria Miller: The information is as follows: permitted work. 383W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 384W
The permitted work rules allow customers in the (3) what proportion of the £110 million savings expected Work Related Activity Group to retain all their ESA for to be made from the implementation of the proposed up to a year while undertaking paid work, provided 10 per cent. reduction in housing benefit for those on earnings are below the £95.00 a week and the hours jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) for over 12 months he worked do not exceed 16 hours a week. expects to be made as a result of (a) lower payments to People in the Support Group, who are less likely to some JSA claimants and (b) a reduction in the number move into full-time work, are able to undertake permitted of JSA claimants consequent on people moving back work on an indefinite basis. Unlike claimants in the into work. [27438] Work Related Activity Group, they are not limited to an overall period of a year, provided that earnings do Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. not exceed £95.00 per week and the hours worked do We will publish an equality impact assessment for the not exceed 16 hours a week. proposed changes to housing benefit announced at The permitted work rules strike a delicate but important Budget 2010, in the normal way, accompanying the balance between, on the one hand, encouraging customers relevant legislation when introduced in Parliament. to build their confidence, undertake some part-time Estimated savings made by reducing housing benefit paid work, and plan a gradual move to sustained entitlement for jobseekers after 52 weeks are based on employment, while continuing to receive benefit, and, information about the existing HB and JSA population. on the other, providing the incentive for them to move It is one of a number of measures designed to reduce off benefit entirely and into full-time work, in line with expenditure on housing benefit and increase the financial the Government’s overall approach. incentive for people to work. For this reason it is not possible to take one measure in isolation in estimating how many people would move into work as a result and Housing Benefit the estimated savings do not take into account the impact on benefit savings of this effect. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what account he took of paragraph 7.8 of the consultation, Local Decisions: a fairer future Housing Benefit: Leeds for social housing, in the drafting of paragraph 70 of his Department’s impact assessment, Housing Benefit: Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Changes to Local Housing Allowance Arrangements, and Pensions how much was paid in housing benefit to on the abolition of the five bedroom rate for housing individuals in (a) Leeds City Council area and (b) benefit. [31348] Leeds Central constituency in each year from 1996-97 to 2009-10. [35529] Steve Webb: The average five bedroom local housing allowance rate is £15,288 per year. We are not saying that families cannot live in properties with more than Steve Webb: Housing benefit (HB) data by parliamentary four bedrooms but the choices these families make must constituency are not available. Housing benefit expenditure be affordable and sustainable. We are ensuring that data at local authority level can be found at the following housing benefit reflects the aspiration of families who URL: manage without benefit and who make housing choices http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/h_tables_budget2010.xls that their budgets can support. Housing Benefit expenditure for Leeds Local Authority is shown in the following table. Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether the single room rate is to be Leeds local authority housing benefit Expenditure £ million applied to housing benefit. [35742] Real terms 2010/11 Nominal terms prices Steve Webb: The shared room rate in local housing allowance and the single room rent for pre-local housing 1996-97 138.3 194.6 allowance cases are only applicable to housing benefit 1997-98 138.0 189.3 tenants living in the private rented sector. 1998-99 137.6 184.9 1999-2000 143.9 189.5 2000-01 143.6 186.7 Housing Benefit: Job Seeker’s Allowance 2001-02 146.4 186.2 2002-03 156.6 193.0 Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2003-04 139.7 167.4 and Pensions (1) what estimate he has made of the 2004-05 149.4 174.2 number of people who will be affected by the reduction 2005-06 157.4 180.2 in housing benefit for those who have been in receipt of 2006-07 163.4 181.0 jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in (a) 2013, 2007-08 172.6 185.9 (b) 2014 and (c) 2015; [27436] 2008-09 192.6 201.8 (2) what methodology he used to calculate the number 2009-10 223.2 230.1 of people who will be encouraged to take up work as a Note: Real terms figures calculated using GDP deflators published at the result of the implementation of the 10 per cent. reduction Autumn Statement. in housing benefit for those on jobseeker’s allowance for Source: over 12 months; [27437] Local Authority subsidy claims 385W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 386W
Housing Benefit: Reform Jobcentre Plus
Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State and Pensions what assessment he made of the for Work and Pensions what recent discussions he has accommodation requirements of large families in had with Jobcentre Plus on the levels of employment formulating his proposals for housing benefit reform. vacancies available to jobseekers with (a) a physical [30565] disability and (b) other disabilities; and if he will make a statement. [35596] Steve Webb: The average five bedroom local housing allowance rate is £15,288 per year. Capping at the four Chris Grayling: In providing a free public employment bedroom rate does not mean that families cannot live in service, Jobcentre Plus takes over 10,000 new job vacancies properties with more than four bedrooms, but the choices every working day, all of which are open to any applicant these families make must be affordable and sustainable. who meets the vacancy requirements. Jobcentre Plus We are ensuring that housing benefit reflects the aspiration will not accept any vacancies that appear to discriminate of families who manage without benefit and who make unlawfully. housing choices that their budgets can support.
Incapacity Benefit: Ankylosing Spondylitis Mortgages: Government Assistance
Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for George Eustice: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether he made an estimate of the Work and Pensions if he will bring forward proposals to number of people in receipt of incapacity benefit on vary the rate of interest used for calculating payments the grounds of a diagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis in under the support for mortgage interest scheme for the last financial year. [32505] individuals who have fixed-rate mortgages. [34886]
Maria Miller: The following table gives the national Steve Webb: The standard interest rate used to calculate numbers of incapacity benefit and severe disablement support for mortgage interest is currently 3.63% which allowance claimants with a diagnosis of ankylosing is based on the Bank of England’s August 2010 published spondylitis, by duration of claim, as at May 2010. average mortgage interest rate. This rate is based on information from around 25 banks and building societies All Ankylosing spondylitis which cover over 75% of all banks and building societies’ All 2,126,690 2,900 mortgage business, and is a weighted average of all Up to 1 year 28,640 30 existing loans to households secured on dwellings from Over 1 year and up to 2 119,700 110 banks and building societies in the sample. The standard years interest rate applies to all claimants who receive support Over 2 years and up to 500,340 500 for mortgage interest whatever their contractual mortgage 5 years interest rate or mortgage product. There are no plans to Over 5 years 1,478,010 2,260 change these arrangements. The following table gives the national numbers of Claimants’ actual interest rates were used in the past employment support allowance claimants with a diagnosis to calculate support for mortgage interest. But that of ankylosing spondylitis, by duration of claim at May method was abandoned in 1995, in favour of a standard 2010 interest rate, which has proved to be far more efficient and straightforward. All Ankylosing Spondylitis The pre-1995 arrangements, where claimants’ actual All 527,120 310 rates were used by the department, were extremely Up to 1 year 412,810 230 complex to administer, prone to error and added cost. Over 1 year and up to 2 114,310 80 Reverting to that system carries an unacceptably high years risk of increased overpayments and inefficiency, is resource Notes: intensive, and would not support the Government’s aim 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10; some additional disclosure of simplifying the benefit system. control has also been applied. 2. Causes of incapacity are based on the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision, published by the World Health Organisation. To qualify for IB/SDA, claimants have to undertake a medical assessment of incapacity for work which is called the Personal Capability Assessment. Therefore, the medical Motability condition recorded on IB/SDA claim form does not itself confer entitlement to incapacity benefits, so for example, the decision for a customer claiming IB would be based on their ability to carry out the range of activities in the Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Personal Capability Assessment; or on the effects of any associated health and Pensions (1) how many Motability cars were problems. 3. IB/SDA figures cannot be taken to represent numbers off work—they are reclaimed in each of the last five years for which figures merely the number of claimants of IB at a point in time. Any figures we supply are available; [36035] cannot be taken to represent sick absences as they do not include short periods of sickness of 3 days or less or days of Statutory Sick Pay (payable by an (2) what his policy is on the use of Motability cars employer). Together with this, the figures will include some unemployed persons reclaimed from those who are deemed to be no longer as well as those who do not declare their employment status on making a claim. [36036] 4. Employment and support allowance (ESA). ESA replaced incapacity benefit eligible for them; and income support paid on the grounds of incapacity for new claims from 27 (3) for what purpose the Motability car reclaimed October 2008. Source: from Mr Robert Oxley of Colchester on 17 January DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study. 2011 is now being used. [36037] 387W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 388W
Maria Miller: I am unable to comment on individual Pensioners cases and the information you request is not held by the Government as Motability are an independent charitable Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for organisation, wholly responsible for the administration Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the of the Motability scheme. number of people who have pensions that are classed as trivial. [36069]
New Deal Schemes: Wirral Mr Hoban: I have been asked to reply. The current pensions tax rules allow individuals aged Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for over 60 whose total pension savings are worth less than Work and Pensions how many young people resident in £18,000 to withdraw their savings as a lump sum. This is Wirral South constituency have found employment known as “trivial commutation”. through the New Deal in each year since 2001. [35199] The Government do not keep records of the number of trivial commutations made. However, the median Chris Grayling: There have been 870 young people pension wealth held by individuals aged 16 or over in (aged between 18 and 24-years-old) resident in the 2006-08 was £6,500 for members of a defined contribution Wirral South constituency, who have found employment occupational pension scheme, and £12,000 for members through the New Deal since 2001. of a personal pension1. Against this background, the Government believe the current trivial commutation Breakdowns of this information can be found in the limit remains appropriate. following table. 1 ONS Wealth and Assets Survey 2008/09, table 6.3 The number of young people resident in the Wirral South constituency that have gained a job through the New Deal since 2001 Pensioners: Barnsley Gained a job 2001 100 Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for 2002 80 Work and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) 2003 90 the basic state pension and (b) pension credit in Barnsley 2004 90 East constituency. [36097] 2005 70 2006 70 Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. 2007 120 Barnsley East parliamentary constituency 2008 90 As at May 2010 Number 20091 150 Total 870 State pension recipients 17,710 1 Latest data are to November 2009 Pension credit individual 6,560 Notes: beneficiaries 1. We can identify relevant individuals who have been recorded by Pension credit household 5,170 DWP computer systems as participating on contracted provision recipients offered through the following schemes: New Deal for Young People, Notes: New Deal for Lone Parents, and New Deal for Disabled People. 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. 3. Information is only given from the most recent spell on New Deal. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic 4. Jobs include sustained and un-sustained jobs. Type of job gained; state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or For New Deal for Young people and 25 plus a sustained job is a job graduated retirement benefit only. from which a participant does not return to Jobseekers Allowance 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 within 13 weeks; for NDLP a sustained job is a job recorded as lasting parliamentary constituencies. at least 13 weeks within the WPLS (Work and Pensions Longitudinal 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim Study) database. Sustained jobs may include people who have had a pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a subsidised job through the New Deal program (Employment option). partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in 5. Information on type of job is not available for New Deal for addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming, Disabled People and New Deal for Partners. some of whom will not have reached the pension credit qualifying 6. Destination is measured within two weeks of leaving New Deal, age. using information from the Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament (WPLS). of May 2010. 7. Leavers to Employment—total includes those who left to employment 6. These data are published on the Department’s website at but are also in http://83.244.183.180/100pc/tabtool.html receipt of a benefit, for example DLA. Source: 8. Information on Leavers for New Deal for Disabled People is not DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal available as no measure exists. Study. 9. New Deal for Partners: in total 20 people began this New Deal in Wirral South constituency. Of these the number aged 24 or under was Pensions negligible. 10. Latest data are to November 2009. 11. Data on New Deal for Disabled People is from July 2001 (the Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for programme was started in 1999); and New Deal for Partners is Work and Pensions what savings to the public purse his available from April 2004 (programme started in May 1999). Department expects to make as a result of using the 12. Parliamentary constituency is for May 2010 boundaries. consumer prices index for the uprating of (a) benefits 13. The latest New Deal figures will be affected by the introduction of and (b) public sector pensions in (i) 2015-16 and the new Jobseekers Regime and Flexible New Deal (gradual implementation started from April 2009). (ii) each of the subsequent five years. [35883] Source: Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. 389W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 390W
The fiscal impact of the switch to CPI for the uprating specific groups of recipients may be very different and of benefits, tax credits and public service pensions for there is not enough robust evidence to support such an the years up to 2014-1 5 is set out in Table 2.1 of the assessment. June Budget. Any estimates of the impact in later years would be highly uncertain, depending on both the trends Social Security Benefits: Decreases in price indices and the underlying caseloads. Remploy: Trade Unions Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many benefit claimants have had a benefit reduced or withdrawn on the ground of Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State not actively seeking employment in the last 12 months. for Work and Pensions if he will meet trade union representatives from Remploy to discuss issues facing [36289] the Remploy work force; and if he will make a Chris Grayling: Jobseeker’s allowance is the benefit statement. [35594] paid to unemployed people, one of the conditions for receipt of jobseeker’s allowance is that claimants must Maria Miller: I confirmed in the autumn following be actively seeking work. Therefore when a claimant no the spending review settlement, that the budget for longer meets this entitlement condition, the benefit Remploy Limited during the five-year modernisation award is ended. period remains protected at £555 million despite the challenging fiscal conditions. The Remploy Employment The latest information is as follows: between August Services arm of operations supported over 10,600 disabled 2009 and July 2010, 78, 460 disallowance decisions were and disadvantaged people into work in 2009-10. enforced on the grounds of claimants not actively seeking employment. The offer of voluntary redundancies in the Remploy factory business is a decision made by Remploy management to help the continuing operation of the Social Security Benefits: Learning Disability businesses within that budget and to help ensure all employees have meaningful work. The choice of whether Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to accept the offer of voluntary redundancy is a matter and Pensions what steps he is taking to ensure that for individual employees to take. By definition no member people with learning difficulties (a) are given appropriate of staff at Remploy will be required to take voluntary support or (b) are exempted from completing benefit redundancy. entitlement forms. [35004] I have met trade union representatives to discuss issues facing Remploy, most recently on 24 January. Maria Miller: Jobcentre Plus provides appropriate and flexible support to ensure customers, regardless of Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State their disabilities, are able to access its services. The for Work and Pensions if he will make an assessment of majority of customers currently make their claims over the plan to reduce costs within Remploy recently the telephone to a contact centre. They are asked a presented to his Department by trade union members; range of questions to identify the most appropriate and if he will make a statement. [35595] benefits available to them and the information is recorded electronically, removing the need for a claim form to be Maria Miller: The Remploy Trade Union Consortium completed. has outlined a number of cost saving proposals in their If a call of this type might prove difficult for a report ‘Remploy: A New Strategy for the Employment customer, they can consent to a representative giving of Disabled People’. the information on their behalf. Customers can involve My officials and I have met and discussed these issues third party support at any stage in the process to access with trade union representatives including at a meeting services if they think it is necessary. on 24 January. Increasingly, customers are opting to apply for jobseekers The day to day operational decisions are the responsibility allowance online via the “Do it online” section of the of the Remploy board and directors. The trade union Directgov website. This provides the flexibility to access report has been passed onto Remploy for consideration. Jobcentre Plus services from their own homes, at a pace Following the spending review settlement I can confirm that suits them and allows them to be assisted in completing that the five-year modernisation plan funding remains the application by an advocate or representative. Customers protected at £555 million despite challenging fiscal can also submit an initial application for employment conditions. support allowance via the internet claim service. Should a customer be unable to use either of the Social Security Benefits: Crime options above, clerical forms can be issued or, where appropriate, a face to face interview at the customer’s Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work local Jobcentre Plus office organised. and Pensions whether he has assessed the potential Pension Disability and Carers Service supports effects of planned reductions in benefits in England customers’ claims to benefit in a range of ways dependent and Wales on projected crime rates. [35068] on individual circumstances. Customers can make a claim for their state pension by phone or online. Pension Maria Miller: No assessment of effects on crime rates credit applications can be made by telephone or customers has been made. Although there is some evidence of an can download, print and complete an application form overall association between lower incomes and increases and post it free of charge to their pension centre. Where in crime, the impact of benefit changes affecting appropriate, a home visit will be arranged to assist with 391W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 392W an application. A forms completion service provides Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work support for those customers whose prefer to use the and Pensions what the total cost to the public purse has telephone. been of appeals made against medical assessment decisions The Department makes every effort to ensure its since May 2010. [34508] leaflets are accessible and achieve the Crystal Mark status. Leaflets are referred for accreditation to the Chris Grayling: Jobcentre Plus, an agency of the Plain English Campaign and should meet Crystal Mark Department for Work and Pensions, is only responsible criteria. for an element of the appeal process against medical While people with learning difficulties are not exempt assessment decisions relating to employment and support from completing benefit claim forms, the Department allowance (ESA). The majority of the process is handled has in place a range of support options to ensure that by the Tribunal Service, part of the Ministry of Justice. disabled people, including those with learning difficulties, Within Jobcentre Plus the direct staff administration are able to access the appropriate benefits and services. cost of ESA appeals for the period from May 2010 to December 2010, the latest period for which figures are Social Security Benefits: Medical Examinations available, was £8 million.
Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security Benefits: Prisoners Work and Pensions what the average waiting time is for medical assessment appeals in (a) Rutherglen, (b) South Lanarkshire and (c) Scotland. [34377] Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number Maria Miller: Information on appeal waiting time is of prisoners claiming benefits in the latest period for not available at the constituency level. which figures are available. [34004] For new employment and support allowance (ESA) claims, that were received in the Scotland Government Chris Grayling: An estimate of this number is not Office Region (GOR) between October 2008 and August available. 2009, have lodged an appeal and had their appeal heard Prisoners convicted of a criminal offence and given a by the end of July 2010, the average time for the appeal term of imprisonment do not receive benefits. to be resolved is 24 weeks. For claims from the South An exception is made in certain housing benefit and Lanarkshire local authority area, the average time for council tax benefit cases, where the overall absence will an appeal to be resolved is 25 weeks. not exceed 13 weeks, on the grounds that loss of the Note that there will be some appeals that have not yet home or falling into council tax arrears in these been resolved for this period so it is likely the average circumstances would be an indirect and unjustified appeal times will increase when these cases come through. consequence of the punishment. This information is taken from benefit claims data Additionally, payment of industrial injuries disablement held by the Department for Work and Pensions and benefit is suspended for up to a year and paid on appeals data sourced from the Tribunals Service. Average release, on the grounds that this benefit is a compensation appeal durations have been rounded to the nearest payment, rather than being paid to meet specific or week. general needs or to provide income maintenance. Background notes Information on the number of prisoners who are in The data presented above uses the same source data receipt of housing benefit, council tax benefit or industrial as used to produce the official statistics report on the injuries disablement benefit is not available. WCA last published in October 2010. The latest report can be found on the DWP website at the following link. These statistics are regularly updated and present the Unemployment: Disability latest and most reliable data we hold. More information is available in the report. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/esa_wca/ for Work and Pensions if he will take steps to ensure index.php?page=esa_wca_arc disabled people are not disproportionately affected by Constituency level data job losses; and if he will make a statement. [35593] Information on the home constituency of ESA claims is not recorded. Maria Miller: We are keen to ensure that disabled ESA appeals data people are not disproportionately affected by job losses and that they have the same employment opportunities Data on people appealing against a fit for work and chances as everyone else to find and stay in work, decision is only available once the appeal has been regardless of their disability. heard and the result given. Since appeals take around six months to be completed on average, there is a It is unlawful to dismiss a person because of their significant delay between an appeal being lodged and disability. the result being given. Data are presented for claims As part of this commitment, the Department for starting by August 2009 since we expect that the large Work and Pensions is responsible for a range of employment majority of appeals for these cases will have been cleared provision specifically aimed at disabled people: to date. If we were to provide data on more recent cases Work Choice—launched on 25 October, provides tailored support it would be unreliable and probably underestimate the to help disabled people who face the most complex barriers to true number of appeals. employment find and stay in work and ultimately help them 393W Written Answers26 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 394W progress into unsupported employment, where it is appropriate Winter Fuel Payments for the individual. Work Choice is voluntary and available regardless of any benefits being claimed. Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Access to Work—provides practical advice and financial support Work and Pensions how many households in (a) Wallasey to employed disabled people above and beyond what the employer constituency, (b) the north-west and (c) England received could reasonably provide, to help them overcome obstacles resulting winter fuel payments in each of the last five years. from disability and thus stay in work. [35298] In addition, Remploy is an executive non-departmental Steve Webb: The information is in the table. public body sponsored by the Department for Work and Pensions. It delivers a range of employment and Total number of payments made development opportunities for disabled people under North-west Wallasey the Work Choice programme. Government parliamentary England office region constituency The Department for Work and Pensions also funds residential training for unemployed disabled adults whose 2009-10 7,862,140 1,088,790 14,070 needs cannot be met through any other Government-funded 2008-09 7,713,430 1,071,420 13,940 programmes. 2007-08 7,585,940 1,055,260 13,850 Later this year, the Work Programme will be introduced 2006-07 7,405,680 1,031,320 13,540 which will provide more personalised back-to-work support Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. for unemployed people, including disabled people. 2. Some discrepancies have been found in the figures for 2005-06 and the household tables for that year are currently being revised. On 2 December, I announced in a written ministerial 3. Constituencies used are for the Westminster Parliament of May statement, Official Report, columns 89-90WS, an 2005. Winter fuel payment figures for households for winter 2009/10 independent review of the support the Government by 2010 parliamentary constituencies are scheduled for publication provide to disabled people who want to work. This on 16 February 2011. review will be conducted by Liz Sayce, chief executive Source: of the disability organisation RADAR. DWP Information Directorate 100% data. 1MC Ministerial Corrections26 JANUARY 2011 Ministerial Corrections 2MC
The notice of question received by my Department Ministerial Corrections referred to “business centre sector” but this was later changed by the Table Office to “business sector”. Due Wednesday 26 January 2011 to an administrative error, the notification of change to the text of the question was not correctly dealt with resulting in an answer being given on the basis of the original text i.e. “business centre sector”. JUSTICE The full answer given was as follows: Criminal Proceedings (Information Rights) Robert Neill: This Government recognises the problems caused by the previous Government’s reforms of empty The following is an extract from a speech in debate in property rates. the European Committee B debate on the EU Directive on the Right to Information in Criminal Proceedings by Our ability to take action on this needs to be balanced the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice, against the costs involved, the targeted support that we the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe have already provided on business rates and the overriding (Mr Clarke) on 2 December 2010. need to reduce public expenditure and support the economy generally by reducing the deficit. Mr Clarke: On Scotland, it costs the Scots about We therefore have no immediate plans to reverse the £500,000. They do not have a letter of rights at the reforms, and taking the above matters into consideration, moment—they will devise their own. It will be in accordance the empty property rate threshold will revert to £2,600 with Scottish law, not English and Welsh law, but they from 1 April 2011. We will, however, certainly keep this are happy to comply, because their standards are the matter under review. same as ours. They will wish to give the same justice to No assessment has been made of the effect of the people who appear in Scottish courts. reduction of the empty property rates threshold on the [Official Report, 2 December 2010, European Committee B, business centre sector. c. 13.] As I outlined in my written statement of 13 December Letter of correction from Mr Kenneth Clarke: 2010, Official Report, columns 61-62WS, it would cost An error has been identified in the answer given to the £400 million to continue with the temporary empty hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) rates measure, which unfortunately is not fiscally sustainable about the costs of implementing the directive in Scotland. given the public finances that the new Government have inherited from the last administration. The figure given should have been approximately The correct answer should have been: £50,000—which includes written translation of a new letter of rights but does not include associated costs for Robert Neill: This Government recognises the problems training and putting in place the necessary legislation. caused by the previous Government’s reforms of empty property rates. Our ability to take action on this needs to be balanced COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT against the costs involved, the targeted support that we have already provided on business rates and the overriding Non-domestic Rates: Empty Property need to reduce public expenditure and support the economy generally by reducing the deficit. Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for We therefore have no immediate plans to reverse the Communities and Local Government what assessment reforms, and taking the above matters into consideration, his Department has made of the likely effect of the the empty property rate threshold will revert to £2,600 reduction of the empty property rates threshold on the from 1 April 2011. We will, however, certainly keep this business sector. [33609] matter under review. [Official Report, 17 January 2011, Vol. 521, c. 503W.] As I outlined in my written statement of 13 December 2010, Official Report, columns 61-62WS, it would cost Letter of correction from Mr Robert Neill: £400 million to continue with the temporary empty An error has been identified in the written answer rates measure, which unfortunately is not fiscally sustainable given to my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer given the public finances that the new Government has (Julian Sturdy) on 17 January. inherited from the last administration.
ORAL ANSWERS
Wednesday 26 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. PRIME MINISTER ...... 283 SCOTLAND—continued Engagements...... 283 Chinese Vice-Premier (State Visit)...... 283 Devolved and Reserved Powers...... 282 SCOTLAND...... 273 Driving Standards Agency ...... 280 Bank Bonuses ...... 280 Energy Industries...... 281 Business Confidence ...... 277 Scottish Parliament (Financial Accountability)...... 282 Business Growth...... 273 Tuition Fees ...... 279 Calman Commission...... 275 Value Added Tax...... 276 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
Wednesday 26 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 10WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 13WS Single Source Pricing Regulations...... 10WS BBC World Service ...... 13WS Special Representative to Gibraltar...... 11WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 14WS Intercept as Evidence ...... 14WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL TREASURY ...... 9WS AFFAIRS...... 12WS Independent Commission on Equitable Life Independent Review of the Science Advisory Payments (Report) ...... 9WS Council to DEFRA ...... 12WS Mortgage Market (Consumer Protection)...... 9WS WRITTEN ANSWERS
Wednesday 26 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 267W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— British Aerospace: Tanzania ...... 267W continued Departmental Working Conditions...... 267W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 303W Welsh Language...... 269W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 303W Departmental Temporary Employment ...... 304W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 316W Faithwise Ltd: Contracts...... 304W Apprentices: Swindon ...... 316W Fire Services...... 304W Driving Instruction: Qualifications ...... 316W Fire Services: Canvey Island ...... 305W Email: Spam ...... 317W Fire Services: Hoaxes and False Alarms...... 305W Employment: Emergency Services...... 317W Fire Services: Standards...... 306W Fashion ...... 318W Fire Services: West Midlands ...... 306W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 318W Government: Assets ...... 306W Microfinance...... 322W Homelessness...... 307W Postgraduate Education: Regional Development Housing: Construction...... 308W Agencies...... 322W Housing: Homelessness...... 309W Student Loans Company ...... 329W Local Government: Redundancy ...... 310W Student Numbers...... 330W Local Government Services...... 309W Temporary Employment :Career Progression ...... 331W Local Government: Standards ...... 310W Mayors...... 310W Mobility: Expenditure...... 311W CABINET OFFICE...... 313W Multiple Occupation: Crime ...... 311W Civil Servants: Business Interests ...... 313W Playgrounds: Finance...... 311W Departmental Working Conditions...... 314W Recreation Spaces ...... 311W Lone Parents...... 314W Referendum: Neighbourhood Planning ...... 312W NDPBs: Finance...... 315W Solar Power: Planning Permission...... 312W Non-departmental Public Bodies ...... 315W Voluntary Organisations: Barnsley...... 312W Public Bodies ...... 315W Public Sector: Redundancy ...... 315W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 281W Arts: Employment...... 281W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 301W Broadband ...... 281W Big Society Initiative ...... 301W Creative Industries ...... 281W Departmental Communications...... 301W Cricket: Television...... 282W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 302W Internet ...... 282W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 302W Lottery...... 282W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 356W HEALTH—continued Armed Forces ...... 356W Depressive Illnesses...... 373W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 360W Drugs: Misuse...... 373W Departmental Pay ...... 360W Health Services ...... 373W Trident ...... 368W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 374W Lorazepam...... 374W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 313W MMR Vaccine ...... 374W Departmental Public Appointments...... 313W MRSA ...... 375W Multiple Sclerosis...... 376W EDUCATION...... 276W NHS Foundation Trusts: Community Care ...... 376W Children: Protection...... 276W Obesity...... 377W Departmental Allowances...... 276W Prescriptions ...... 378W Departmental Conferences...... 277W Smoking: Health Services ...... 378W Departmental Equality ...... 277W Swine Flu: Vaccination ...... 380W Departmental Procurement...... 277W Worcestershire Royal Hospital: Private Finance Latin: GCSE ...... 277W Initiative...... 380W Pupils: Bullying...... 278W Schools: Brighton ...... 278W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 343W Schools: Brighton Kemptown ...... 279W Alcoholic Drinks: Crime...... 343W Schools: Sports ...... 280W Bolivia: Drugs...... 344W Sixth Form Colleges: Finance ...... 280W Campsfield House Immigration Removal Centre... 344W Third Sector: Finance ...... 280W Cannabis...... 346W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 280W Detention Centres: Northern Ireland...... 347W Drugs: Professor Nutt...... 347W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 297W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 348W Departmental Procurement...... 297W Entry Clearances: Pakistan ...... 348W Electricity: Meters...... 297W Hinkley Point Power Stations: Demonstrations ..... 348W Electricity: Wind Power...... 298W Human Trafficking ...... 349W Energy: Housing ...... 298W Immigrants: Detainees ...... 350W Energy: Regulation ...... 299W Immobilisation of Vehicles: Private Land ...... 350W Fuel Oil: Prices...... 299W Legal Highs...... 350W Heating ...... 299W Members: Correspondence ...... 351W Methane: Natural Gas ...... 300W Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 ...... 351W Nuclear Power...... 300W Police: Demonstrations ...... 351W Warm Front Scheme ...... 301W Sexual Offence Liaison Officers ...... 352W Vetting ...... 352W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Visas: Internet...... 352W AFFAIRS...... 282W Young Offenders ...... 352W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 282W Animal Feed ...... 283W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Animal Feed: Production...... 283W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 266W Animal Products: Imports...... 284W Internet ...... 266W Biofuels...... 284W Telephone Services...... 266W Biofuels: Carbon Emissions ...... 284W Birds of Prey: Crime ...... 285W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 353W Common Agricultural Policy ...... 290W Burma: Overseas Aid ...... 353W Common Agricultural Policy: Imported Soy...... 290W Departmental Communication ...... 354W Common Agricultural Policy: Reform ...... 291W Malaria: Disease Control...... 354W Domestic Biomass Burners: Carbon Emissions ..... 291W Nigeria: Education...... 354W Flood Control: Finance ...... 291W Sri Lanka: Food...... 355W Floods...... 292W Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced People...... 355W Food: Consumption...... 292W Sri Lanka: Schools...... 355W Forests ...... 293W UN Agencies: Finance ...... 356W Local Authorities: Antisocial Behaviour ...... 293W Midland Pig Producers ...... 293W JUSTICE...... 332W Pigs: Animal Welfare...... 294W Courts: Closures ...... 332W River Thames: Tunnels ...... 295W Departmental Procurement...... 332W Sewers: EU Law...... 296W Firearms: Convictions...... 332W Water: Employment ...... 296W Judicial Diversity Taskforce ...... 333W Wood ...... 296W Legal Services Commission...... 334W National Offender Management Service ...... 334W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 265W Prison Accommodation ...... 335W Democratic Republic of Congo: Uranium ...... 265W Prison Sentences ...... 341W Reoffenders...... 341W HEALTH...... 369W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse...... 369W TRANSPORT ...... 263W Cancer: Health Services ...... 370W Railways: Bexley ...... 263W Cannabis: Mentally Ill...... 371W Roads: Management ...... 263W Cannabis: Misuse...... 371W Shipping: Pilots...... 263W Departmental Communication ...... 372W Train Operating Companies: Waste Disposal...... 264W Departmental Manpower...... 372W Trust Ports ...... 264W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT—continued WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 313W Trust Ports: Privatisation...... 265W Departmental Procurement...... 313W Departmental Public Appointments...... 313W TREASURY ...... 269W Air Passenger Duty ...... 269W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 381W Car Allowances...... 270W Disability Living Allowance: Halifax ...... 381W Child Benefit...... 270W Disability Living Allowance: Reading West ...... 381W Credit Unions ...... 270W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 382W Departmental Billing ...... 271W Housing Benefit ...... 383W Departmental Pay ...... 271W Housing Benefit: Job Seeker’s Allowance...... 383W Departmental Working Conditions...... 271W Housing Benefit: Leeds ...... 384W Departmental Written Questions ...... 272W Housing Benefit: Reform ...... 385W Economy and Public Finances ...... 272W Incapacity Benefit: Ankylosing Spondylitis...... 385W EU Institutions: Fines...... 273W Jobcentre Plus ...... 386W Excise Duties: Fuels ...... 273W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 386W Financial Services ...... 273W Motability...... 386W Foreign Exchange: Regulation ...... 274W New Deal Schemes: Wirral...... 387W Members: Correspondence ...... 274W Pensioners...... 388W Royal Mint...... 274W Pensioners: Barnsley ...... 388W Tax Avoidance ...... 275W Pensions...... 388W Tax Yields: Northern Ireland ...... 275W Remploy: Trade Unions ...... 389W Taxation: Bingo ...... 275W Social Security Benefits: Crime ...... 389W Taxation: Gaming Machines...... 276W Social Security Benefits: Decreases ...... 390W Social Security Benefits: Learning Disability ...... 390W WALES...... 265W Social Security Benefits: Medical Examinations..... 391W Departmental Procurement...... 265W Social Security Benefits: Prisoners ...... 392W Dwyfor Meirionnydd ...... 266W Unemployment: Disability ...... 392W Wales ...... 266W Winter Fuel Payments...... 394W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS
Wednesday 26 January 2011
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CONTENTS
Wednesday 26 January 2011
Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 273] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Scotland Prime Minister
BBC World Service [Col. 295] Answer to urgent Question—(Mr Hague)
Counter-terrorism Review [Col. 306] Statement—(Mrs May)
Education [Col. 327] Bill Presented, and read the First time
Carers and Employment [Col. 328] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Mr Mark Williams)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time
European Union Bill [Col. 332] Further considered in Committee
Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority [Col. 408] Motion—(Sir George Young)—agreed to
Public Accounts Commission [Col. 413] Motion—(Mr Heath)—agreed to
Burton’s Foods (Moreton) [Col. 414] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Westminster Hall The Army and RAF Lyneham [Col. 77WH] Chechnya [Col. 101WH] Community Cohesion [Col. 109WH] UK Internet Search Engines [Col. 133WH] Holiday Accommodation [Col. 141WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment
Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 9WS]
Written Answers to Questions [Col. 263W] [see index inside back page]
Ministerial Corrections [Col. 1MC]