EUROPEAN AND EXTERNAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE Tuesday 6 December 2005 Session 2 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2005. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Licensing Division, Her Majesty‟s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by Astron. CONTENTS Tuesday 6 December 2005 Col. EUROPEAN COMMISSION WORK PROGRAMME 2006 ................................................................................. 1553 IMPROVING ENGAGEMENT WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION ............................................................................. 1559 PRE AND POST-COUNCIL SCRUTINY........................................................................................................ 1562 SIFT .................................................................................................................................................. 1567 CONVENER’S REPORT .......................................................................................................................... 1568 EUROPEAN AND EXTERNAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE 18th Meeting 2005, Session 2 CONVENER *Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP) DEPU TY CONVENER *Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab) COMMI TTEE MEMBERS Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West) (Ind) *Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP) *Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con) *Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab) *Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab) Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab) Mr Jim Wallace (Orkney) (LD) COMMI TTEE SUBSTITU TES Ms Wendy Alexander (Paisley North) (Lab) Derek Brow nlee (South of Scotland) (Con) Richard Lochhead (North East Scotland) (SNP) Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD) *attended CLERK TO THE COMMITTE E Alasdair Rankin ASSISTANT CLERKS Nick Haw thorne Dav id Simpson LOC ATION Committee Room 4 1553 6 DECEMBER 2005 1554 Scottish Parliament Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): After reading the paper, I certainly recalled the substantial discussions that we had at the time. European and External Relations The Convener: I will open the item up for Committee discussion. Members will note the recommendation that we write directly to the Tuesday 6 December 2005 Commission to reflect the committee‟s views and to seek its views on how it sees the situation [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 14:00] developing, particularly with regard to safeguarding our rural postal services. European Commission Work Phil Gallie: Needless to say, we are discussing Programme 2006 a European document. However, does its reference to “universal service” mean service right The Convener (Linda Fabiani): I welcome across the 25 nation states or does it simply mean everyone to the 18th meeting in 2005 of the universal service in Scotland and the United European and External Relations Committee. We Kingdom? have received apologies from Jim Wallace and The Convener: I have to ask you to clarify what Gordon Jackson. Dennis Canavan will be late, as you mean, Phil. he is attending a meeting of the Enterprise and Culture Committee, which is considering his St Phil Gallie: I realise that everyone cannot have Andrew‟s Day Bank Holiday (Scotland) Bill. exactly the same service with regard to mail deliveries, but I have always felt that, no matter Item 1 concerns the European Commission‟s whether one lives in the Hebrides or in south-east work programme. After taking evidence from the London, one should pay the same to get first-class Commission at our previous meeting, we agreed and second-class letters delivered. In that light, to monitor a number of areas and proposals in its does the phrase “universal service” in the paper work programme that might prove to be of refer to the UK or to the wider Europe? particular interest to us in Scotland. I asked the clerk to produce a paper on one of those issues, The Convener: I see. You are wondering which I hope that members find useful. Indeed, I whether the cost of delivery would be the same hope that at future meetings similar papers will be across the member states. produced on other areas of interest in the Phil Gallie: Yes. Is that the aim? Is that what Commission‟s work programme. should happen in the internal market? The letter at annex B in the paper brings to the The Convener: It certainly reads that way to Executive‟s attention particular areas of interest me, but, like you, I have serious doubts about that we noted at our previous meeting as worthy of whether it could happen. As far as a universal being tracked. Of course, the list is not exhaustive postal service in the UK is concerned, the and members will doubtless want to suggest other committee‟s absolute concern is to ensure that issues that should be monitored. people in the outer Hebrides are not With that in mind, today‟s paper considers the disadvantaged compared with people in central Commission‟s proposals for the full Glasgow, London, Manchester or wherever. That accomplishment of the internal market in postal is why we recommend that we write to the services. I thank Iain McIver, our European Commission to ask how it intends to ensure that research specialist, who has put together a we have a universal service and universal prices research note on the background to the issue and in our country. its potential impact on Scotland. Our concerns on Mr John Home Robertson (East Lothian) the matter centre on rural and sparsely populated (Lab): I can hardly see you, convener, you are so areas. The issue was previously discussed by the dazzling—no, the sun is dazzling. committee back in 2000 when the Commission engaged with postal service reform. Indeed, I think The paper states: that Phil Gallie and Irene Oldfather were party to “At present the UK postal regulator PostComm has those discussions. granted a license to the Royal Mail w hich guarantees „a universal postal service at an affordable flat rate.‟” Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): It was just Irene Oldfather. “Universal” means throughout the UK, which is the status quo— The Convener: So you remember it all in great detail, Irene. The Convener: Sorry to interrupt, but Iain McIver, our wonderful European researcher, has just quietly confirmed to me that his understanding 1555 6 DECEMBER 2005 1556 is that the provision on universal costs and service that deliver on behalf of various companies, which will apply within member states. means that our roads are a lot more cluttered. However, we are told that that is more efficient. Mr Home Robertson: That is what has been brought into question. The open market invites Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): cherry picking, if I can use that pejorative term, The critical factor is the cross-subsidisation, which which might mean far cheaper mail collections and is what makes a stamp the same price anywhere deliveries in busy urban areas such as central in the UK. The big worry is that, if we break up the Scotland or London, while the scope that has area into bite-size chunks, we will destroy the existed until now for cross-subsidising the much cross-subsidisation. The situation could be a bit more expensive services to rural areas and the like bus deregulation—people will get a service islands might be put in jeopardy. I presume that only where the provider can see a profit. However, that is what we are all bothered about. there is no convincing evidence in the initial paper that that is a real and present danger. The Convener: Yes, that is the issue. The Convener: Frequency of service is another Irene Oldfather: John Home Robertson has issue—companies could make up for the costs by made some of the comments that I was going to cutting the frequency of the service. make. My understanding is that the principle is the liberalisation of services throughout the European Do members agree that we should write directly Union. When we discussed the issue previously, to the Commission to express our concerns? weight restrictions were suggested, which would Members indicated agreement. have had implications. Perhaps our expert from the Scottish Parliament information centre or the Phil Gallie: I accept that it is important to write clerks could advise us on the up-to-date situation to the Commission but, as the issue is reserved, in relation to that issue. The cut-off point meant we should ensure that the relevant Government that letters would not fall under the scope of the ministers are kept informed of our views. That will directive, whereas other items would. I did not do no harm. notice information on that in the paper, so it would The Convener: Perhaps we should copy the be useful if someone could let us know about it. The issue is all about the internal market. I would letter to them. have thought that Phil Gallie would be happy with Irene Oldfather: This may be an area in which liberalisation of services. we would want to work with the UK European Scrutiny Committee. I rather suspect that the Phil Gallie: I am not unhappy. I just asked a genuine question about an issue that I want committee, which Jimmy Hood chairs, will be on to the matter already or, if not, would want to know clarified. that we have some concerns about it, so perhaps Irene Oldfather: I am not sure that I am entirely we could write to Jimmy Hood. happy with it—obviously, if Phil Gallie is happy Phil Gallie: At our previous meeting, we saw with it, I am probably not happy with it. copies of a letter from the National Assembly for The Convener: Now, now. Wales, if I remember rightly, which talked about European committees coming together. Perhaps Irene Oldfather: It would be useful if we had we should include the Welsh Assembly as well. further information from the clerks about what the up-to-date proposals would mean and whether a The Convener: So we will write to the weight limitation will be imposed. Commission, with copies to the relevant ministers.