Episode 1 – Jeremiah Mongold

Jeremiah: I’m Jeremiah Mongold from West Virginia and I did 11 years in West Virginia State Penitentiary for a crime that I did not commit and had a long struggle – a long fight -- and I’m happy to be where I’m at today. ***MUSIC*** Brooke: Hi, I’m Brooke, and you’re listening to Actual Innocence, a podcast bringing awareness to wrongful conviction and problems within the justice system. I’m here with DeMarchoe. It’s been two weeks since our last episode but I feel like a lot has happened since then. What do you think? DeMarchoe: A lot has happened since then. Brooke: So I didn’t make it to Oklahoma but I did see on Facebook Live your speech and I thought it was excellent. How did it feel? DeMarchoe: To be honest with you, just because it’s the Oklahoma – it’s the state capitol, so I was kind of nervous. I was intimidated. It’s just – the Oklahoma State Capitol, yes, so I’m intimidated. And then there’s people everywhere. So I get up there and I was nervous up there. People said I looked confident and I looked like, you know, I was relaxed, but that was so far from what was going on. But I’m happy everything worked out. It was pretty exciting. And just to be up there, you know, I feel like, you know, it helped me. You know, it was a confidence builder. You know, you’re speaking at the Oklahoma State Capitol and these people up there that are loving me and at the end, you know, everyone told me how much of an amazing job I did. So, you know, I feel good about it. Brooke: I think you did great. And, last weekend, we got to hang out together. DeMarchoe: Yeah, that was cool. And I’m glad things worked out ‘cause I almost didn’t make it but, you know, things worked out and I had so much fun. Brooke: I’m glad it worked out, too. Did you know that there were ducks in the hotel before we – before you went? I did not know there was going to be a duck parade. DeMarchoe: A duck? I didn’t see no ducks. Brooke: You didn’t see the ducks? So -- DeMarchoe: No. Brooke: I think it’s sometime in the morning, the ducks come down the elevator, walk from the elevator on a red carpet to this fountain, and then they swim around in the fountain all day. And then around dinner time, they walk back up the red carpet, into the elevator, and go back up to their penthouse. DeMarchoe: Was it some type of convention or what? Brooke: No. No. It’s -- that hotel’s apparently famous for it. DeMarchoe: So the ducks stay there? Brooke: Yeah, the ducks have a hotel room, apparently. They have a better life than me. DeMarchoe: How many ducks was it? Brooke: I don’t know. Like five I think. Not too many. So what was your favorite conference memory? DeMarchoe: Man, it – I had so – I just did so much there. I was going to ask you the same thing. What did you find most, you know, appealing about Memphis? Brooke: So, there were two things. One was last year – you know how this year, we raised money for Leslie to go to the conference, right? And actually that was amazing. It was really cool hanging out with Leslie. We actually ended up on the same connecting flight to Memphis, so that was fun. And then we got – so last year, I tried to raise money for the men from the Georgia Innocence Project to come, and they got money but they only got enough money for one person to go. So they decided no person left behind and they all went this year to Memphis ‘cause they could drive and it was much cheaper. And so I got to see them all there and I was so excited to see them and that, you know, that the fund raising had worked and they were so happy. DeMarchoe: It was a lot of people that I wanted to see that I didn’t even get to meet. Brooke: Yeah, I saw Obie for like two seconds. He just waved as he walked by my table. I think it was when we were interviewing Jeremiah. DeMarchoe: And I tried to take pictures with everyone. I didn’t even get to take – it was so many people there. And people was disappearing and – you know, I seen some guys that I seen one time and I said, where they at? Brooke: Right. I saw Meredith at the bar. I mean, I wasn’t drinking. I was just sitting there watching the ducks. And she had lost her voice. It was so sad. But she did such a great job planning the Conference, her and her team. DeMarchoe: I still haven’t recovered from that. I’m still, you know -- Brooke: I met so many people. Like, it was so incredible, the number of people that I met. DeMarchoe: Yes, I got a – I made a lot of connections. And Kirk Bloodsworth, you know, I was happy to sit down with him and I’m looking forward to getting a ring in the future, so I’m excited about that. And those rings are beautiful, too. Brooke: Yeah, they are. I saw Leslie’s. DeMarchoe: Yeah, I’m looking forward to that. I didn’t even get to hang out with Leslie, you know, but a split second. Brooke: I – I mean, I rode the plane there with him so we were together for a couple of hours and then – yeah, we saw each other a lot at the conference. DeMarchoe: Time for some trivia, after our first sponsor. ***AD*** Brooke: I was looking for this week’s trivia questions, sort of a “what happened this week in history”, and I realized the first week in April has been historically tragic for a lot of people. DeMarchoe: I have a trivia question. It’s about history this week. Brooke: Okay, perfect. Let me hear it. DeMarchoe: What civils – what civil rights leader was assassinated on April 4th, 1968? Brooke: Oh, I do know that one. It was Martin Luther King, Jr., in Memphis, where we just were. DeMarchoe: I have another one. The day another man was killed was observed just today. It has a spiritual meaning to some people. Brooke: Hmm. Oh, I know this one, too. So I think you are talking about the crucifixion of Jesus. DeMarchoe: You got it. Brooke: I have one for the listeners now. A country leader was assassinated on this week in world history. It was April 6th, 1994. His plane was shot down out of the sky. The question is, what was that leader’s name and what country did he lead? DeMarchoe: So, to get swag, the listeners need to send you an email, right? Brooke: Right. They need to email me the country and the world leader’s name to [email protected]. I only accept submissions by email, and I’ll send swag to everyone who emails me on or before Wednesday, or at least before I wake up on Thursday. Here’s a hint – you can probably find the answer on the website, GenocidePod.com. DeMarchoe: Okay. And now it’s time to introduce our guest. Brooke: I am super excited that he was there and we got to interview him on like such a special weekend for him. Jeremiah. DeMarchoe: Jeremiah. Jeremiah: I was born in Virginia but I’m originally from West Virginia. I have a big family, more on my father’s side than my mother’s side, but big support group. You know? They’re Christians on my father’s side, Jehovah’s Witness on my mom’s side. So two relationship, families still get along good. I have two brothers, one same mom, same dad, and one same mom, different dad. So – they still my brothers. DeMarchoe: That’s how I am. All my brothers – my sister and my brother, they have – we all have different dads but – Jeremiah: Yeah. Still brothers. Still brothers. And then not to mention all the other brothers from another mother. Brooke: And I noticed that there’s this beautiful lady sitting next to you. Did you want to introduce her? Jeremiah: Yes. This is Kayla. This is my wife. That we just got married. Kayla. Hello (laughs). Jeremiah: (Laughs) I’m the oldest and Aaron’s four years younger and Gabe is – he’s 14 years younger than me. I never had a really – I never had a really solid relationship with my brothers because from the time I was 16, it kind of stayed kind of – because I got in some trouble at school when I was younger and ever since then, it’s kind of like the State wanted to send me away, send me away, send me away. I got into a fight on the school grounds and the boy got hurt really bad. And they sued me and then they tried me as an adult and gave me a malicious [INAUDIBLE] and stuff like that. And the State violated me on my probation every chance that they could get and they would send me away to homes or detention centers or places like that, so all the way until I was like 17, 18 years old, they finally let me go, you know, when I was 18 and everything like that. And then it was just after I turned 18, I went through a relationship where I’d gotten drinking real bad, I screwed up again in my life, and I went back to jail and – Brooke: You made a mistake. Jeremiah: Yeah, I made a mistake. A mistake that, you know, I admit, it’s a small area. The County depicted me as I was malicious and violent and it was just that continuous outlook on me as being a bad person in that community. Which I wasn’t because, you know, I played football, you know? Even when I was on probation, I went to high school, I played football, I was doing good. You know, I had a full scholarship for football, you know, but I screwed it all up because of drinking. You know, that’s where I screwed my life up. Brooke: Well, and when the police or law enforcement or authority figures peg you as a bad kid, then you feel like sometimes a bad kid. Like, oh, they’re expecting me to do things that, you know, I shouldn’t so I’m going to do it. Can you tell me about the crime that you were charged with? Jeremiah: Oh, yeah. I was 20 years old. I was married. She had two kids and we had a home, had a great job -- carpenter for Lantz Construction Company out of Winchester, Virginia. DeMarchoe: Carpenter? Jeremiah: Hmm mm. DeMarchoe: I’m a Carpenter. Brooke: (Laughs) Jeremiah: (Laughs) Yeah. We had a great relationship. Everything was going good. Her daughter had collapsed one morning. She was two. And I called 911 that morning. Two months later, they had charged me. It was an immediate, you did something. You had to have harmed her in some way or inflict some sort of violence to her. Because when I was 18, I had a domestic dispute with my ex and it was between me and my ex but her son was home at the time and he tried to break me and her up from fighting and they got me for domestic and child abuse because he was there. And they used that against me as a violet, malicious individual. Brooke: And just because you had made even a mistake – even if it wasn’t a mistake like in the past, that doesn’t mean that you did this thing. Yeah. Jeremiah: And so I – so they – as soon as they charged me, you know, I go get a lawyer, do all this stuff. You know, my dad took like $30,000 out of his 401(k) to get pay for a lawyer. Brooke: So you had a paid attorney. Jeremiah: I had a paid attorney. But he never did anything. He never investigated. He never – he never did anything for me at all. Brooke: So – okay. So the police arrest you, you said a few months later – a couple months after? Jeremiah: Yeah. It happened in May, I got arrested in June. Brooke: So do you remember the day you were arrested? Jeremiah: Yeah, it was like June 16th, 17th, something that like, 2004. Brooke: Were you at home, were you at work? Like where – Jeremiah: No, I was on my way back from my grandmother’s in Virginia and soon as we pulled onto our road to our house, they pulled us over and arrested me. And just came straight to the side door and said, we have a warrant for your arrest and arrested me. Brooke: So, what was that like? The interrogation or questioning Jeremiah: Hannah was the child, and it wasn’t really about Hannah, it was more about, this is what you did before, what reason do we not have to believe that you didn’t do something to Hannah? Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: So it was kind of like – they brought -- the State Police brought in Social Services and they would throw pictures at me, you know, and say, look at all this stuff that you did. How do we know that you didn’t do this or didn’t do that? And the whole time, you know, I’m like, I didn’t, you know; I didn’t do anything wrong. Brooke: But how do you prove that you didn’t do something? Jeremiah: Yeah. So I sat – I sat in the State Police Barracks for 7½ hours being interrogated and then they let me – they let me leave. Passed two polygraphs, which is unadmissible [sic] in court. And they’re polygraph examination reports state that it is a questionable – questionable but passed polygraph. And nobody ever wanted to use it. It seemed like they disappeared. Like the State Police -- it’s not even in the State Police records. They were printed off one time. Nobody knows where they’re at. There were several State Police documents that was missing, you know, during the interrogation. The audio recorded tape that they had for the interview was missing. The only thing that was left was a written report. So all that stuff was gone. Nobody knew where it was at. And you gotta think, it was ten years, nine years later that this stuff was brought back up, you know, and – Brooke: Well, and you had – okay. So you had this attorney that your dad paid $30,000 for, and he didn’t find any of this information. Jeremiah: No, he never attempted to get access to any of this information. I had a three day trial – March 21st, 22nd, and 23rd, 2005. Brooke: What was the prosecution’s evidence, in air quotes? Jeremiah: Their evidence was the John Hopkins’ doctors and Patricia Pollocks [phonetic], forensic pathologist. That’s all they had to say that there was blunt trauma, ‘cause there was a contusion and it was an immediate child abuse case, when, one, Patricia Pollock never performed a full autopsy. There was a report stating that a full autopsy was not performed because of the amount of bodies coming to the morgue, there was not enough time to perform a full autopsy. And then they went off of character witnesses and character representation of my character. Brooke: They made you a bad guy. Jeremiah: They made me a bad guy, yes. Then the prosecutor had asked a question to I think my father or somebody about, is he a good person in the community or something? And then, you know, my dad’s like, yeah, you know, he’s a good guy. He did this, he did that, blah, blah, blah. And apparently that had opened up the door for the prosecution to bring in my prior convictions. So once they brought all my prior convictions in, they painted me as a violent – exactly what they said was a violent, malicious, assaultive individual, I think is what they said. Brooke: Do you see this man as a violent, malicious person? Kayla: No. Brooke: No? Yeah, I don’t – I haven’t seen that, either. Jeremiah: Yeah. Kayla: No, I have two kids and they – Bailey wakes up every morning and asks, where’s Jeremiah? Where’s Jeremiah? Brooke: What did your defense attorney do? Jeremiah: Nothing. He hired one expert out of Pennsylvania which was a – he was a pediatrician doctor. He didn’t specialize in anything or anything like that. Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: And that’s the only person that he brought in. He didn’t do anything for me at all. Brooke: Did you testify? Jeremiah: I testified. Brooke: How did that go? What was it like? Jeremiah: At first, you know, I thought, okay, here I’m going to go, I’m going to get my chance to tell the courts, you know, my side of the story and everything. But it didn’t go like that. It went the complete opposite. Because everything that I had to say, the prosecution rebutted with, well, here’s this because you did this before, you know? I’m like, I know I did that. I admitted to doing wrong to that. Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: So the whole – my whole trial, it really wasn’t about like proving what did or what didn’t happen to Hannah; it was more about proving, hey, he’s a bad guy. He had to have done this to her so let’s convict him. You know? And it never – my story never got out. I never got a chance to tell the jurors – I mean, I told the jurors, you know, my side. They asked me what had happened – or the prosecution did, my lawyer – you know? Brooke: They had painted you as a negative person so no matter what you said, it was too late. Jeremiah: Yeah. And then even in my trial, there was a lady on the jurors that had wrote a note – or before we even went to trial, we did our jury selection and stuff like that. And there was a lady that I – well, there was a few people that I didn’t even want to be on there. And then my lawyer was like, no, I got this, I got this. You know, as far as striking and opposing. You know? Well, when it came time for the trial, when we went to trial, when – on the third day of the trial, they went into deliberation. One of the jurors wrote a note to the judge saying, I don’t feel I can be fair and impartial to this case; I wish to be dismissed. And there was no more alternates to step in and go in her place so my lawyer told me, he said, I don’t feel like we should call a mistrial right now because – he told me that if they come back with a guilty verdict, that’s an automatic chance for us for a mistrial, he said, but if they come back with a not guilty verdict, you’re not guilty. So he said, let’s move forward with this and not call for a mistrial at this time. So he neglected to call a mistrial when a mistrial was presented to call for a mistrial. So they continued – this lady, the judge was like, no, you will continue deliberating. So they continued deliberating. Well, they came back and handed down a guilty verdict. And then my judge – or my lawyer tried to call for a mistrial. The judge denied it. He denied it because he had exhausted his timeframe for calling for a mistrial or something like that. Right? And then the whole time, my lawyer was like, oh, don’t worry about, you know? We’ll go to the Supreme Court, they’re going to see this, and you’re going to get a new trial. No. Brooke: So how did you feel when you heard “guilty”? Jeremiah: Oh, my whole world was gone. I felt like – I felt weightless, you know what I mean? You kind of just – Brooke: It’s just so surreal. Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s just – I didn’t even – as soon as they handed me down a guilty verdict, I just – I kind of liked bowed my head. And the only thing that was going through my mind was like, what am I going to do? You know, what now? Brooke: Hannah’s mom – what was her opinion on the whole situation? Jeremiah: Well, at first, she was there by my side for the first six or seven months of all this. ‘Cause I got arrested in June. And then December, she had – we had separated in December. But she was going with me to the lawyer’s office and everything. She was there by my side, you know? I mean, she even was – told them, you know, her side of the story and everything. So she was behind me somewhat. But it was her family that was kind of against me and pressured her to be away from me. But then when it came to trial time, you know, she testified and I can’t really say whether it was bad or whether it was good or whether it hurt me or whether it didn’t hurt me. I really don’t know the difference. Brooke: She didn’t believe that you had done – Jeremiah: No. The funny story is is when I did get out, me and her actually reconciled a little bit. Well, not when I got out. ‘Cause when I first got out, there was a woman that was – that I was involved with that kind of showed me like, hey, I’m there for you type deal thing, and it was – when you get out, it’s kind of like, I want to be with this person ‘cause they were there. Well, that turned bad. Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: That kind of turned – Brooke: ‘Cause it’s a different experience. Like --. Jeremiah: Yeah. Well, that turned bad and I got her out of my life. Well then, my ex-wife, Hannah’s mother, we started talking again. So there was never hard feelings there. Apparently, when I went back to court for my habeas and all the court hearings to get out, apparently there was a conversation between her family to the prosecutor and I’m pretty sure it went along the lines of, hey, if you guys really don’t know what happened and they’re trying to say that this is what happened, why do we want to continue fighting this and put everybody through the grief or something like that. Somewhere along that lines that conversation was said between them and the prosecutor. So I really don’t know exactly what was said. I don’t know like any details and all that. But I do know that I don’t think that they were pressing for me to – like throw him away, get rid of him type deal thing. I don’t know that. DeMarchoe: How long were you in the county jail? Jeremiah: 26 months. DeMarchoe: That’s a long time. Jeremiah: Yeah. I sat in the regional jail 26 months before they sent me in the penitentiary. DeMarchoe: When you were in the county, ‘cause you were in there for your case, did you have any hard time? Jeremiah: I was out on bond -- $75,000 bond. I was out on bond from June of 2004 ‘til May of 2005. Because March of 2005, I had my hearing, they found me guilty, they released me again on house arrest until my sentencing date. Well, then in May, 2005, the judge had a hearing for sentencing and took away my home confinement and said, we’re just going to remand you to the regional jail until it’s time. And I sat in regional jail from that time until – for 26 months from that time. DeMarchoe: So when you went to prison for that crime, did you have a hard time? Jeremiah: I never had one hard time when I was gone. Brooke: Really? Jeremiah: Because one, I knew that I didn’t do anything wrong. Two, I did everything in my power to make sure that myself wasn’t presented – or I presented myself to somebody that I was that person that they made me out to be. And when people attempted to give me a hard time or something like that, I would basically say the words of, slow down before you jump to conclusions. I was like, I know how people is. I know how people judge people. And in prison, you have people who don’t care. They don’t care. They look at you as scum or whatever else or something like that. I wasn’t ever afraid of anybody. I never – I always stood up for myself. And I would tell them straight out, before you jump the gun or before you have anything negative to say to me or if you want to take this any farther [sic], listen to what I have to say and then you make your decision. I went to Mount Olive first – maximum security prison, ‘cause they gave me a Level 5 because of the severity of the case. Brooke: Is Level 5 the highest? Jeremiah: Yeah. In West Virginia, Level 5’s the highest you can get. And I went to Mount Olive Correctional Center and I sat in Mount Olive for two years – a little over two years. And then I got my classification lowered to a 3. They dropped me to a 3. Then I went to Huttonsville Correctional Center. I sat in Huttonsville for 6½ years. And then they finally dropped my classification down to a 1, outside clearance. Brooke: What does that mean? Jeremiah: So I got to go outside the fence and work. So I left Huttonsville into a minimum security prison and – Denmar, in Pocahontas County, West Virginia – and I worked outside the fence for the remainder of my stay. ***MUSIC*** ***AD*** Brooke: And so, what – how did you get in touch with the West Virginia Innocence Project? Jeremiah: Well, when I got to Mount Olive, I immediately started filing my paperwork. You know, I had – Brooke: Like pro se, like by yourself? Jeremiah: Yes, by myself. I looked into who to talk to as far as legal reps, you know, what to look for. I got my habeas papers and I filled everything out myself, did all that stuff myself. I sent it into court. And the court granted me a habeas hearing in 2008. And then when they did that, they appointed me a lawyer. Brooke: That’s good, because that doesn’t always happen. That means that they had confidence in your – yeah. Jeremiah: They appointed me a lawyer but the lawyer – it was too much for the lawyer to take on, and he hired a lady, Gail Abeu [phonetic], to come in to assist him – basically a paralegal to help him out with the case. So she got case laws and she got information and she looked up everything there was for me for years, you know? And then finally, she reached out to West Virginia Innocence – she knew Valena and she reached out to her and basically said, hey, look; this is what I did, this is what I’ve got, you need to look at this ‘cause this lawyer cannot take this on. And all my hearings kept getting postponed. They kept postponing all my hearings. All my hearings, all my hearings. Brooke: That’s disappointing. Jeremiah: And 2014 is when the West Virginia Innocence Project took my case. So from 2008 ‘til 2014, it was – and I never lost hope. I turned down my parole hearing twice and getting ready to turn it down a third time ‘cause I did – I wasn’t going to see the parole board. Brooke: And that’s what – when – so a lot of places like when you have parole, I have heard that you have to admit like I did this and I’m sorry for it. Is that the way that it – Jeremiah: West Virginia requires you to go in there and basically admit – they basically require you to go in there and admit it or admit remorse for your crime or your action. Yeah, West Virginia’s pretty strict on their parole board. They – and it’s tough to make parole in West Virginia. It’s really tough. And – but outside of that, I didn’t care what they had to say to me, because I knew that – what was the point of me even going over there seeing a group of people and telling them that I’m not guilty and then just have them tell me, you’re denied. Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: I didn’t even want to give them the benefit of the doubt to even think that I wanted anything like that. I didn’t want parole. I didn’t want any of that. I wanted to fight my case, be in front of a judge, and say, listen, you know, this is what’s going on and get out that way. And I would have denied my parole hearing for ten more years, you know, ‘cause they gave me a 40 year sentence. So I would have sat there and I would have fought and I would have fought, you know, until eventually they would either discharge my sentence or I would have had someone help me. I had my habeas in 2014 or 2015 – no, they took me – they transported me to – Brooke: What was it like? Jeremiah, Well, I mean, it was tough. You know, you go in your oranges -- you have to go to your hearing in your oranges. But to me it felt relieving, you know? It felt exciting. Because here I am with the chance to present case and evidence that I don’t belong here. So -- and it was amazing because I had the hearing and the judge ruled within two weeks. You know, within two weeks of my evidentiary hearing. Well, there was a habeas hearing and then an evidentiary hearing. From the evidentiary hearing, it took him like two weeks, three weeks, something like that to make a decision. And – but the decision was crazy ‘cause 2016 I got released. And – Brooke: And that was -- your hearing was in ’14 or so, right? Jeremiah: No, I had a habeas hearing in ’14. And then the evidentiary hearing was like right at ’16 or something like that. So once that evidentiary hearing happened – there were supposed to be two hearings, one on ineffective and one on new evidence. Of course, the judge ruled off of ineffective immediately because of the attorney. And they didn’t even want to hear the second hearing. They said – the judge was like, there’s no point for us to have a second hearing because he ruled in the first hearing. Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: But from the time he ruled to the time I got the notification at the prison, it was like, you gotta get out of here. Brooke: Wow. Jeremiah: Yeah. And it wasn’t like, oh, hey, we’re going to transport you tomorrow, nothing like that. DeMarchoe: Right now. Jeremiah: They came up there – Brooke: Pack your stuff. Jeremiah: -- three or four guards and was like, pack your stuff. DeMarchoe: I have a question. What kept you strong? What did you do to keep you motivated or keep you going? Jeremiah: I never lost focus of what life was and I knew that one day I’d be home so I was going to do everything it took to make myself better for when I got home. DeMarchoe: So when they tell you you’re going, where did you go? Jeremiah: Oh, I threw all my stuff in a bag and straight to Control. DeMarchoe: And you went home? Jeremiah: And I went - no, they took me to the Regional first and then they released me from the Regional. DeMarchoe: To see you walk out – when you walked out into society, how did that make you feel? Jeremiah: Oh, it was crazy. My brother handed me a phone to talk to my dad on the phone, and it was a Facetime and the phone was black. It like looked like this. And he handed me the phone and said, Dad’s on the phone and I’m looking at the phone, I didn’t know what to do. You now, ‘cause there was no Facebook, there was no – Brooke: Right. Jeremiah: There was none of that stuff when I went away. So – and there was no -- none of these phones. It was all these flip phones or something like that. Brooke: Right. Yeah. Jeremiah: So when he handed me the phone to talk to Dad, I’m like, what do I – you know, what do I do? And he had to show me how to – Brooke: It’s like talking to a brick. Jeremiah: Yeah. He had to show me how to talk to Dad, you know. It was – you know, everybody hugged each other. I have the video of it. I have the video of when I got out. DeMarchoe: What did you eat? Jeremiah: My brothers bought me steak – 22 ounce steaks. Brooke: Oh, my gosh. Jeremiah: And we had steak. DeMarchoe: Do you feel your relationship with your – like, me and my brother – I have a sibling -- a brother that’s two years younger than me. And because I left at 17 and he was 15 – Jeremiah: He really didn’t know you. Yeah. DeMarchoe: I didn’t know him. And we had to get to know each other all over. So was that the case with your Dad? Jeremiah: Not really my Dad, more my brothers. ‘Cause my baby brother – you gotta think, my baby brother was just still a baby. You know, he was still a little kid. And my other brother, he was still in school. He was – everything. He went into the military, everything, while I was gone. You know? So I missed out on all of that. And I think the biggest thing now – it’s hard sometimes is when my brothers think that they’ve been living life or some things that they know that I don’t because I was gone, it’s kind of tough sometimes because when you do something and they’re like, hey, you don’t know this because you haven’t been here. I’m like, just because I haven’t been here doesn’t mean I don’t know. You know what I mean? It’s – DeMarchoe: Let me say this. And this might sound weird to someone who’s not in my position, who doesn’t – haven’t been through what I’ve been through – ‘cause for 22 years, you know, I was in that place. But, you know, there’s times when you and your cellie – you know, like me and some of my cellies, we had a routine and I would give him cell time and he would give me cell time, you know? Do you feel that’s the case with sometimes you want to be alone, by yourself? Jeremiah: Oh, yeah. It’s not really the aloneness part of it. Sometimes the feeling reflects back on you like of a routine that you get into. You know, just waking up or the bathroom or, you know, things like that. You have that mental thought of like, all right, you know, just like orderness – you know, keeping things in order or your small space or your amount of clothes or things like that. Sometimes things become overwhelming times. Like I have OCD really bad – DeMarchoe: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Jeremiah: And – yeah, I have OCD really bad and it was tough to get used to seeing clutter or things like that because – yeah – and to me, it wasn’t really about space because I was single celled for like five years – the first five years. And then once I went to Huttonsville, it was all open dorms. You know? So you lived with 60, 70 – DeMarchoe: Oh, yeah. I’ve done that, too. Jeremiah: You know what I mean? You live with 60, 70 people in the same dorm. And then your showers are like 7, 8 minute showers and – Brooke: I love a love story. So can you tell me how you two met? Jeremiah: Yeah. So, I – like I said, I worked for Callas Contractors out of Hagerstown, Maryland and we had got a job in Westernport, Maryland. It’s a manor. And it’s a – it was a remodel job and I was stationed to go up there and work. And I was up there working and she seen me in there working one day and she came in and bugged me a few times – Kayla: Yeah. I work at a nursing home. I got off the elevator – I just got back from maternity leave. I got off the elevator and seen him and I was like, who’s that? And they were like, he’s been here. He’s been here before you left. And I was like, I was pregnant. I wasn’t looking for anyone. I told my co-worker, I kept saying, we gotta go get his number. We gotta get his number. And so we left and we get a couple people and we came back and I asked him if he was married and if he lives around here and then I left. And my friend -- the lady, she’s an owner, she’s like, no, no, she’s not done. She wants to know if she can have your number. Came over and wrote it down. Been stuck ever since. DeMarchoe: And how long has that been? Kayla: About six months. Jeremiah: Seven – seven months? Kayla: October 3rd. Jeremiah: October 3rd. Brooke: When did you find out his story? Jeremiah: Well, when we first met – when we first met and she came to the house and I told her about my life and stuff and I told her – I said, hey, there’s stuff that I’d like to talk to you about but face to face. You know? I did. I told her – I said – I said, there’s things that I’d like to talk to you about but I’d rather talk to you face to face about. And I told her that over the phone after our first time meeting. And then she went – Kayla: It didn’t happen like that. Jeremiah: And then – well, when we -- at the house – when you came to the house, I never – I didn’t tell her at the house. I just said, hey, there’s things I’ll tell you about once we get to know each other a little bit better. Brooke: Can I tell you that would drive me crazy? Kayla: Yeah, it did drive me crazy. ‘Cause I already knew he was married. I knew he had a kid. So I was like, what’s going on? So – Brooke: Right. Kayla: Yeah. Somebody Googled him and then I Googled him and [INAUDIBLE] his name [INAUDIBLE] first come up – but that all happened before he went out to Morgantown and had a conference with them. Because when you first Googled him when I first met him, it was just all the bad stuff. Yeah. So -- Brooke: You have the conversation. How did it go? Kayla: It went good. At first, when I was seeing all that – ‘cause I had two kids, small, so I was like, explain to me what’s going on and he did and pretty much I had knew him by then so I was like, well, I’m here. (Laughs) I’m stuck anyways. (Laughs) Brooke: Tell us about two days ago. Kayla: Well, we planned to get married next year. Well, we came down – his mom’s like, you’re getting married on his birthday, which was yesterday, and I was like, no, not yet. I still have to get some going going. And then I was like, we have no kids, so weekend away, I was like, let’s do it. So last week I bought a dress, called the person, and here we are. Brooke: Congratulations. And then yesterday was your birthday. But also – DeMarchoe: Wow. Happy belated birthday. How old are you? Jeremiah: 34. March 23rd of 2005 was when they found me guilty. My 21st birthday. Brooke: So this has been a really like intense weekend. Jeremiah: Yes. DeMarchoe: Do you get emotional? Jeremiah: Yeah. When I was gone – like while I was gone, this time of year always got emotional for me because it’s like, you know, how can I celebrate my birthday when this is what happened to me on my birthday? Brooke: But now you have – Kayla: Now you have something better. That’s -- Jeremiah: Yeah. So this was -- Kayla: I said that. I was like, you had all this bad stuff happen like years ago. Now this year, look, you’ve got all the good stuff happening around this time. Jeremiah: So this was the best birthday I’ve celebrated in probably 20 years. Brooke: How can regular people like me help? What can we do? Jeremiah: I would say regular people – I mean, I think the biggest problem with regular society is judgment and judgment towards what they read and the first impression. I think that if people could look aside from what they read and maybe communicate with the person that they’re reading about, then I think maybe that might help towards people to help somebody else. Because there’s always more to a story than what you may read. You know, just like my case – my case is portrayed all the negative sides to the case. I was guilty immediately from the gate. You know? There is no there was no you’re innocent until proven guilty. In my case, it’s you’re guilty? You know what I mean? So I believe that – I believe that everybody has a side to them that they’ve done wrong things in life and that they’re – you know, that they have to live with. I’ve done things in my life that, you know, I wish I could change or go back and do differently. You know? And we all do that. I think everybody in life goes through that. But nobody knows about it until they read about it. And as soon as you read about it, you’re like, oh. Brooke: All the bad stuff. Jeremiah: Yeah. Wait a minute, you know, what is this person really about? You know? So -- and it’s just like that while we was gone. ‘Cause you go to prison – a lot of people don’t see – they don’t read your whole case file and stuff like that. They see your charge. Brooke: Yes, guilty of – Jeremiah: They -- yeah. They see your charge and as soon as they see your charge, it’s like, oh, you know, this person is, you know, something else. You know what I mean? And it’s just like out here in society. They have more opportunity to read or check up on somebody so I feel like if somebody was to look at somebody and judge them off of what they read, I think that they should look into a little bit more and see who that person really is. Kayla: Get to know you and talk to you. Jeremiah: Yeah. Kayla: ‘Cause I have people that judge me now ‘cause of him but -- like my family. So I’m just like, know him, talk to him, listen. Not – my friend read all about him, read everything. And I say, no – ‘cause she listens to me but I can say whatever. So I said, no, you go to my mom and tell her what you think. And so Mom met him and just said, take care of us. And – Jeremiah: Yeah. DeMarchoe: When you got out, did you have a problem getting a job? Jeremiah: I got a job within the first 28 – well, actually, I take that back. I had a job the first day I was out. My father’s neighbor hired me to do work around his property. And basically I took care of his property for like 28, 30 days. And then I started – you know, I started going out on job interviews and stuff like that. The first job interview I went to, they hired me that day. Brooke: That’s crazy. Jeremiah: Yeah, I just drove around – ‘cause it took me a little bit to get my license. You know, I saved up my money ‘cause I had to pay some fines that I had and things like that. So within that first month, that was the first thing I took care of. That was the most important thing to me to take care of. What do I do to get my license back? So I got my license back. As soon as I got my license back, my dad sold me a car. I bought the car from my dad and I went out to go get interviews and stuff like that. So I went to – I went to Winchester to my old employer but they wasn’t hiring at the time. So the very next building that I went to, the company, they hired me on the spot. I started the next day. And I worked for them – I worked for them as a – I was a designer. I basically design engineered for them for pre-cast concrete. And I did – I did all their special stuff. And then they – it go to the point – it got to the point where (a), you know, I’d like to have a raise, more money, things like that. They didn’t want to give me money. I remodeled their entire office for ‘em, everything. In the process while I was working there, I started my business. So I have my own business. So I left Winchester Building Supply and I put my resumé out there on Job Case. And first person that called me from Job Case, they gave me a Zip Recruiter, and a Zip Recruiter contacted the company and – Brooke: That’s one of our sponsors! Jeremiah: Zip Recruiter? DeMarchoe: Zip Recruiter. Yes. Jeremiah: Zip Recruiter – Zip Recruiter sent my resumé out there and they sent it to Callas Contractors – well, they send you these emails and you click on a job that you like and as soon as you click it, they send your application. So as soon as they sent my application out, they called me the next day. Brooke: That’s awesome. DeMarchoe: That’s wonderful. That’s the best way to hire – Zip Recruiter. Brooke: (Laughs) DeMarchoe: Go on. Jeremiah: They called me the next day – Callas called me the next day. I went in for my interview and they hired me a week later. Brooke: That’s amazing. Jeremiah: And they started me off at $21 an hour as a carpenter and I’m getting ready to be a superintendent for the company. DeMarchoe: I want to know like – me personally, and I’ve talked to other exonerees -- PTSD. I have PTSD and I want to know do you know if you have it? Have you been diagnosed? Jeremiah: Never been diagnosed with it but I can’t say that I don’t have it. Because there’s moments in life that you have that issue where something that you do or something along the day reflects back to where you was at. Like there’s been times where I’ve woke up before and thought that I was still in prison. You know? There’s been times where I’ve woke up – you know how you wake up --- DeMarchoe: I’ve done it before. Jeremiah: You gotta make your bed. You know what I mean? Or roll call. Or something like that. Or like in the mornings, you gotta be at the chow line at a certain time. You know what I mean? Like there’s been mornings where I’ve woke up and said, oh, I’m late. You know? Or I’m going to miss breakfast this morning. Something like that. You know? So – and then there’s many times like throughout the day I’m waiting for somebody to tell me, you know, what to do. You know what I mean? Like it’s -- I was – from being on the yard, you hear the guards tell you, get off the yard or, you know, you hear -- just something. You know what I mean? Like ‘cause going from Mount Olive was open, free room movement, to Huttonsville, where it’s controlled movement. And controlled movement, they tell you when you can go, where you can go. They give you times you can go places. And there’s many times throughout the day where I’ll have that thought like, oh, man, you know, it’s almost 9:00, or something. You know? It’s just that split second and then you immediately lose it. You know? You’re like, oh, I’m not there, you know? So – Kayla: He makes me make the bed. Jeremiah: (Laughs) Kayla: And I couldn’t bring dressers. I had to hang my clothes. Brooke: DeMarchoe: That’s part of that OCD he has. ‘Cause I have OCD and like with my wife and her kids – I want to ask you this here. Like me, personally, it’s taken a while for me to get out of my ways, right? It’s only been 21 months. My wife has five kids. They’re ranged from 21 to 15. And, you know, they – they’re through the house and sometimes they touch stuff or touch my things and – you know, when I was in prison, you know, I don’t touch nobody’s stuff and they don’t touch mine. That was like – you don’t touch somebody’s stuff. So how has that affected you? Do people touching your things bother you? Jeremiah: It did. It did at first. At first, it was like – at first, like I would have something sitting somewhere, right? I knew where it was at. And it would be moved. And you come back and you see that it’s moved or something and you’re like, where’s it at? You start freaking out kind of sort of, like where’s it at? Where’s it at? Where’s it at? But as far as like – I think the main thing for me would be like – like I had a big issue of hygiene. Hygiene and my clothes. Like, you know, I always want to keep things neat. Like at first, I’d always set up my hygiene – DeMarchoe: In a row. It’s like in a row – Jeremiah: Yeah. DeMarchoe: Like my soap is here, then my toothpaste – Jeremiah: Yeah. DeMarchoe: And then my deo -- Kayla: On your dresser it’s like that. Jeremiah: Yeah, on the dresser. DeMarchoe: ‘Cause I’m very meticulous and I have to have everything in order. Like this table here is too disarrayed for me. Jeremiah: Yes. DeMarchoe: I wouldn’t -- this could not be in my house. And like you said, the kids touch things and move stuff – Jeremiah: Yes. DeMarchoe: And all I ask is, put it back. If you all going to use something, whether it be – now this may sound so petty but people don’t realize. Okay, if it’s the air freshener, you used it, you should put it back right here. Jeremiah: Just put it back. DeMarchoe: ‘Cause this is where it belongs. This is how I feel – this is where – I feel it belongs here. Everything has a spot. So, you know, this is the understanding that we’re going to put the thing – this is where this goes, and that’s where – just put it back once you use it. That helps me. That’s what I explain -- I try to explain to the kids, that, you know, it’s not you, it’s me. It’s definitely me. Kayla: That’s what he tells me all the time at home. Jeremiah: And I tell her all the time. I say, listen, it’s not – I say – whenever I have a moment, I say, it’s not your fault. I said, I have a problem. I said, there’s thing that I live with that I have an issue of letting go. I said, it’s not like you’re doing something wrong. It’s just, that’s me. That’s me. You know? DeMarchoe: Because of what you went through. Jeremiah: Yeah. And I try to tell her – and it might sound wrong sometimes. Like you may not ever understand what that feeling’s like but I try to work on it. But there’s going to be those moments where it’s like, I can’t control it, you know, it’s just there. You know? And it’s different because it’s in everything. You know? It’s – it seems like it’s like – okay, I know this is mine or like if I go somewhere – if I’m out in public. At first, I had a really bad time of like holding my hands behind my back or crossing my arms like this, you know, because I was so used to – so used to standing in a line or something like that, and it was – and it’s the preparation, the surroundings. Like I’m always quiet, you know, I don’t ever – I don’t ever really say nothing. Like if I’m somewhere – I’m in a crowd of people – I’ll just be quiet but I’ll be – I’ll like look around – DeMarchoe: Observing. Jeremiah: Yeah, very observant and she’s always like, why are you so quiet or why ain’t you smiling or something like that. And it’s not like I don’t want to; it’s just that’s how I am. You know what I mean? That’s something that I was used to and it’s hard to get rid of that. You know what I mean? DeMarchoe: I don’t know if you can go into every store and use the bathroom but apparently you can, but I don’t know this. Jeremiah: Yes. DeMarchoe: And sometimes I do know it but I just – I’m just going to ask, hey, I’d like to use the bathroom, is it all right? And yeah, it’s right there. Why do you ask me this? Jeremiah: Yes. DeMarchoe: And I’m like, why did I ask you this? Well, I guess because I’ve been in prison. I gotta get used to being in society. So – Jeremiah: [AUDIO SKIP] place and asking permission. Like I even – like even at work, like sometimes I find myself asking my supervisor – I’ll be working or something and I’ll say, hey, man, I’m – is it all right if I go use the restroom real quick? All the time. All the time, I’ll say that. And it’s like – he’s like, man, you can go use the bathroom any time you want, man. (Laughs) DeMarchoe: Yeah. Jeremiah: I’m like, hell, all right, you know, I’m sorry. DeMarchoe: And someone that’s home -- in prison right now, going through what you went through, what I went through, what a lot of us guys went through, that’s trying to get to the side – where we’re at right now – Jeremiah: Oh, I’d tell him, don’t lose focus. Don’t lose focus of what it means to live life. Do not – and don’t let demons beat you down. Don’t let your thoughts and your memories of where you was at take away from what you have. Brooke: You know, this interview was different because we did it in person. Like we were all sitting at a table together. DeMarchoe: Oh, yes, yes. Definitely. Definitely. That was different. Brooke: Yeah, I was going to ask how that felt to you. Because I’ve interviewed a lot of people like in my job before this, you know, face to face, but I think this is the first time we’ve done one with an exoneree face to face. So until next time, thank you so much for listening.