1 Court File No. T-2155-00 FEDERAL COURT
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1 Court File No. T-2155-00 FEDERAL COURT B E T W E E N: WESLEY BEAR, FREIDA SPARVIER, JANET HENRY, FREDA ALLARY, ROBERT GEORGE, AUDREY ISAAC, SHIRLEY FLAMONT, KELLY MANHAS, MAVIS BEAR and MICHAEL KENNY, on their own behalf and on behalf of all other members of the KAKISIWEW INDIAN BAND Plaintiffs - and - HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF CANADA, as represented by THE MINISTER OF INDIAN AND NORTHERN AFFAIRS and THE OCHAPOWACE INDIAN BAND NO. 71 Defendants Court File No. T-2153-00 B E T W E E N: PETER WATSON, SHARON BEAR, CHARLIE BEAR, WINSTON BEAR and SHELDON WATSON, being the Heads of Family of the direct descendants of the Chacachas Indian Band, representing themselves and all other members of the CHACACHAS INDIAN BAND Plaintiffs - and - HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF CANADA, as represented by THE MINISTER OF INDIAN AND NORTHERN AFFAIRS CANADA and THE OCHAPOWACE FIRST NATION Defendants ______________________________________________________________ TRIAL - VOLUME 3 ______________________________________________________________ Held at the Ochapowace First Nation, Province of Saskatchewan, Thursday, November 15, 2018, the Honourable Justice M. L. Phelan presiding. 2 APPEARANCES: E. Stevenson COUNSEL FOR THE T-2155-00 N. Boudreau PLAINTIFFS T. Waller, Q.C. COUNSEL FOR THE T-2153-00 K. Kreklewich PLAINTIFFS K. Jones COUNSEL FOR THE CROWN J. Guebert M. Phillips COUNSEL FOR OCHAPOWACE N. Phillips C. McCullough REGISTRAR K. Straile USHERS R. Botkin D. Halvorsen/ COURT REPORTERS S. Petryshyn 3 TABLE OF CONTENTS Description Page ROSS ALLARY, Previously Affirmed with an eagle 5 feather, Further Examined by Mr. Phillips Cross-Examination by Mr. Waller 36 Cross-Examination by Mr. Stevenson 37 Cross-Examination by Ms. Guebert 39 Re-Examination by Mr. Phillips 51 SHARON JOYCE BEAR, Previously Affirmed with an eagle 62 feather, Examined by Mr. Waller MORLEY WATSON, Previously Affirmed, Examined by 89 Mr. Waller Cross-Examination by Mr. Stevenson 111 Cross-Examination by Mr. Phillips 114 4 EXHIBITS No. Description Page 2 Map showing Ochapowace and area as marked with 56 yellow stickers by Mr. Allary 3 Watson Plaintiffs' book of documents 61 5 1 (COURT COMMENCED AT 9:33 A.M.) 2 REGISTRAR: This matter is resumed. 3 JUSTICE: Good morning. 4 MR. PHILLIPS: Good morning, Mr. Justice 5 Phelan. Yesterday when we concluded we were in the midst 6 of examination-in-chief of oral traditional evidence of 7 Ross Allary and I would propose this morning to continue 8 with that examination-in-chief with the assistance of a 9 diagram that we were able to -- actually my son, Nathan, 10 who practices law with me, attended and obtained it in 11 Regina and we propose to use this map in the course of 12 the Examination for Discovery -- sorry. The 13 examination-in-chief of Ross Allary. 14 He is now taking the stand again, if we 15 could have him acknowledge his -- 16 JUSTICE: Good morning, sir. 17 A Good morning. 18 19 ROSS ALLARY, Previously Affirmed with an eagle feather, 20 Further Examined by Mr. Phillips 21 JUSTICE: I remind you that you are 22 still under oath. 23 A Okay. 24 Q MR. PHILLIPS: Ross, in the 25 presence of the eagle feather, if we could. I think what 26 I would propose to do is to, before we address ourselves 27 to the map and the request that was made when we 28 adjourned last night for a map and the markings, just to 6 1 set the stage again, where we were at yesterday and 2 continuing on now. 3 Ross, you spoke of the knowledge that you 4 had of these locations of these lands Reserved and your 5 knowledge of the Treaties. And the promises coming from 6 the Treaties arose from a number of sources, but 7 principally Ivan Watson and Arthur George. Is that 8 correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And not to be -- to complicate 11 matters, before we move on to where you -- where you are 12 identifying the Reserve lands, but the concept of the -- 13 there being sacred promises that the land become -- 14 became sacred, could you become -- or continues to be 15 sacred, could you explain to Mr. Justice Phelan about the 16 Treaty, about what the promises meant to the people? 17 A Yeah, well, they were quite 18 significant, but the Indian Act came into power shortly 19 after and wiped most of those -- they hid behind those 20 promises and didn't fulfill a lot of the things that the 21 chiefs wanted, so the Indian Act is a not a very good 22 thing for our people or anybody, so they under -- I don't 23 think anybody in this room lived under those 24 circumstances. 25 Q Living with the Crown and working with 26 the Crown, the Cree term for working with the Crown under 27 Treaty, what is that Cree term? 28 A Well, meewataskiwin. 7 1 Q Okay, and pimatihowin? 2 A Pimatihowin. Yeah. 3 Q Pimatihowin, and that for the court 4 reporter is the term that we had earlier given you the 5 spelling. 6 Could you describe that term, what it means 7 for the court? 8 A It means making a living or something 9 for yourself. Pimatihowin, to do with your life, whether 10 it to feed or health care or whatever. 11 Q And pursuant to the Treaty, was -- 12 could you describe the obligations under the Treaty to 13 keep the promises? What was the term in Cree for that? 14 A The Cree term for that is -- it's a 15 term used to speak the truth. 16 Q Right. 17 A I can't say that this -- at this time, 18 I sort of forgot some of the words. Because they are 19 like I said before, there's only a few of us that speak 20 Cree on this Nation. So there's no one to talk to. 21 Q When you say "speak the truth", do you 22 mean in the sense of the promises of the Treaty are to be 23 kept? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And what does -- what's the importance 26 of the word of the Queen? 27 A Well, it was everything is meant they 28 were for our people, we kept our word, we said we 8 1 wouldn't -- wouldn't battle the settlers and stuff like 2 that. We kept our promise, but like I say, the Indian 3 Act did a lot of harm to us. 4 Q Before we move on to the Indian Act 5 matters, in relation to the lands that were -- the lands 6 that were reserved, were they -- were they sacred when 7 they were reserved? 8 A Yes, well, it means everything to us. 9 It gives us everything to live, to live by. That's why 10 we give thanks to Mother Earth for providing all our 11 needs. 12 Q And so the lands, when you were with 13 Ivan Watson, and he spoke about the Treaties when you 14 obtained this information about the oral history, you 15 were actually physically on the lands? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And the lands that you -- how old 18 would you have been when this communication was occurring 19 with Ivan Watson? 20 A Well, I was in my 20s anyway. 21 Q Okay. Can you describe again the 22 lands that were surveyed and where the markers were 23 located on the map behind you? 24 A Yes. 25 MR. PHILLIPS: Mr. Justice Phelan, we 26 are using the system because the nature of the map that 27 has yellow stickies the Registrar and myself were trying 28 to figure out a way that would be more permanent on the 9 1 map, so if it's in keeping with your direction, we are 2 asking him to affix yellow stickers. 3 JUSTICE: That will be fine and through 4 the magic of modern technology, we will no doubt figure 5 out how to make them permanent. I will leave that to 6 you. 7 MR. PHILLIPS: I'm a dinosaur when it 8 comes to technology. That's why I have got so many good 9 people in my family and Nation that are available to do 10 that. 11 A Okay, the first one is the marker on 12 the north side of the valley up by Camp McKay, and 13 there's just not exact -- 14 MR. PHILLIPS: Can you pick that up on 15 the recording? I know the Registrar might be concerned. 16 COURT REPORTER: I can't hear. 17 A Well, turn up your hearing. There's 18 another marker here -- 19 JUSTICE: Excuse me, sir, you will have 20 to stop for a second. We can't pick up your voice. So I 21 don't know how to solve this. 22 A This is a marker that Ivan -- well, 23 it's no longer there, but Ivan Watson showed us, this was 24 Chacachas marker here. 25 Q MR. PHILLIPS: Could I just confirm 26 for the record then, you are saying you are affixing for 27 the record where Ivan Watson took you? 28 A Yes. 10 1 Q To see the -- and what area is that, 2 Chacachas or Kakisiwew? 3 A Kakisiwew Reserve. This is where I 4 was telling you yesterday, from the Round Lake school, 5 they went to bring cattle in here, before the Chacachas 6 Reserve. 7 Q Okay, would you affix a yellow sticker 8 then where that is? 9 A Around there place someplace.