Cofnod Y Trafodion the Record of Proceedings
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Cofnod y Trafodion The Record of Proceedings Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau The Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee 27/09/2017 Agenda’r Cyfarfod Meeting Agenda Trawsgrifiadau’r Pwyllgor Committee Transcripts Cynnwys Contents 5 Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau Introductions, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of Interest 5 Y Gweinidog Sgiliau a Gwyddoniaeth: Craffu Cyffredinol Minister for Skills and Science: General Scrutiny 34 Panel Sector Masnach—Gwerthu Cymru i’r Byd Trade Sector Panel—Selling Wales to the World 60 Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a’r Seilwaith—Craffu Cyffredinol Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure—General Scrutiny Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle y mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad. The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript. 27/09/2017 Aelodau’r pwyllgor yn bresennol Committee members in attendance Hannah Blythyn Llafur Bywgraffiad|Biography Labour Hefin David Llafur Bywgraffiad|Biography Labour Russell George Ceidwadwyr Cymreig (Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor) Bywgraffiad|Biography Welsh Conservatives (Committee Chair) Vikki Howells Llafur Bywgraffiad|Biography Labour Mark Isherwood Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Bywgraffiad|Biography Welsh Conservatives Jeremy Miles Llafur Bywgraffiad|Biography Labour Adam Price Plaid Cymru Bywgraffiad|Biography The Party of Wales David J. Rowlands UKIP Cymru Bywgraffiad|Biography UKIP Wales Eraill yn bresennol Others in attendance Simon Brindle Dirprwy Gyfarwyddwr, Trefniadau Pontio Ewropeaidd, Llywodraeth Cymru Deputy Director, European Transition, Welsh Government Tracey Burke Cyfarwyddwr Strategaeth, Llywodraeth Cymru Strategy Director, Welsh Government Ben Cottam Pennaeth Materion Allanol, Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach Head of External Affairs, Federation of Small 3 27/09/2017 Businesses Julie James Aelod Cynulliad, Llafur (Y Gweinidog Sgiliau a Bywgraffiad|Biography Gwyddoniaeth) Assembly Member, Labour (The Minister for Skills and Science) Simon Jones Cyfarwyddwr, Trafnidiaeth a Seilwaith, Llywodraeth Cymru Director, Transport and Infrastructure, Welsh Government Huw Morris Cyfarwyddwr Sgiliau, Addysg Uwch a Dysgu Gydol Oes, Llywodraeth Cymru Director Skills, Higher Education and Lifelong Learning, Welsh Government Ken Skates Aelod Cynulliad, Llafur (Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Bywgraffiad|Biography yr Economi a’r Seilwaith) Assembly Member, Labour (The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure) Yr Athro/Professor Stevens & Associates Terry Stevens Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bresennol National Assembly for Wales officials in attendance Sian Hughes Y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil Research Service Mike Lewis Dirprwy Glerc Deputy Clerk Andrew Minnis Y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil Research Service Gareth Price Clerc Clerk Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:17. The meeting began at 09:17. 4 27/09/2017 Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau Introductions, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of Interest [1] Russell George: Croeso i’r [2] Russell George: Welcome to Pwyllgor Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau. the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee. [3] I’d like to welcome Members and members of the public to committee this morning. I move to item 1. There are no apologies. Are there any declarations of interest? No, there are none. Y Gweinidog Sgiliau a Gwyddoniaeth: Craffu Cyffredinol Minister for Skills and Science: General Scrutiny [4] Russell George: In that case, I move to item 2. I’d like to welcome the Minister for Skills and Science who is with us this morning. I’d be grateful if you could introduce yourself and your colleagues. [5] The Minister for Skills and Science (Julie James): Good morning. I’m Julie James. I’m the Minister for Skills and Science. [6] Mr Jones: Morning. I’m Simon Jones, director of economic infrastructure. [7] Mr Morris: And I’m Huw Morris, director for skills, higher education and lifelong learning. [8] Russell George: Lovely, thank you. I’ll start with the opening questions, if I can, and it will be of no surprise which subject I want to cover this morning. Can you tell me are you satisfied with BT’s performance? The deadline has passed, the contract should have finished in June 2017. How have they done? [9] Julie James: They’ve got a bit of a mountain to climb in the last quarter. As you know, the drop-dead date is 31 December for this year. Because of the verification process that we go through, we’re always lagging a little on the actual numbers, but they’ve got somewhere between 30,000 and 18,000 premises to cover between now and the end of December. I spoke with Kim Mears, who is the head of Openreach, yesterday on the telephone, in advance of coming to the committee, and she gave me her 5 27/09/2017 absolute personal assurance that they will hit the number, which is 690,000, that’s in the arrangement between us. I absolutely laid it on the line to her that if they didn’t do that, we would enforce all the penalties in the agreement and so on, which are quite onerous and which I won’t go into in technical detail here. But I can tell you that she gave me her absolute personal assurance that they were putting every single resource necessary into getting that number over the line before the end of December. [10] Russell George: Did you speak to her about capacity issues at all? [11] Julie James: We did. We talked about the number of engineers that she had out in the field and what they’re doing about it. They have some interesting language, in that they have a team that they call the ‘fluidity team’, which is to keep the bills going when they encounter all of the difficulties that Members will be familiar with—blocked ducts and engineering difficulties and so on. I think they’ve got quite a mountain to climb, so I’m not in any way complacent about it. I’m meeting with them again Tuesday next week. We’re sitting on them very heavily to do this. [12] Russell George: Could you explain, from a technical point of view, why there is a capacity issue? Tell me if I’m wrong: a premise is passed, so it’s in the 96 per cent, but the customer can’t get superfast broadband. [13] Julie James: Well, the technicalities are that we’ve got two different ways of connecting up people. We’ve got fibre to the cabinet and fibre to the premises. Fibre to the cabinet: they enable a cabinet. If you’re within a kilometre of that cabinet, you’ll be able to get your superfast switched on— you can go to an internet service provider and ask for it and so on. That’s not a problem. With fibre to the premises, they put the fibre in the pavement outside your house, and then when you ask for a connection, they connect it into your house, and that takes a little longer. There is some frustration about—we say, ‘Okay, you can order it’ and then it takes a number of weeks, sometimes rather a long number of weeks, for them to actually connect it into the house. So, that’s a frustration, but the infrastructure is there, if you see what I mean. So, the two things are a little bit different. [14] Russell George: The infrastructure’s there, but they can’t get it. [15] Julie James: They have to have the last bit of the connection between the pipe, if you like, in the road, up into the house. 6 27/09/2017 [16] Russell George: So, how long should somebody expect to wait? If they’ve been told, ‘Your neighbour’s got it, sorry you can’t get it’— [17] Julie James: On fibre to the premises? [18] Russell George: Well, if they’re getting a reply that the issue is about capacity, it’s a capacity issue—. They’ve been told it’s a capacity issue, how long should they expect to wait? [19] Julie James: Okay, that’s a full cabinet. So, the other issue we’ve got on the cabinets is the amount of capacity in each of the cabinets that goes in. So, if you remember, when this contract started—and culturally, life has changed hugely in the course of this contract—BT estimated that there would be about a 21 per cent take-up in the population of broadband. And we get a gain share after that, because that was their estimate. So, what they do is build the cabinet on the assumption of a particular level of take-up, and if the take-up is more than that, the cabinet can’t support that, and they’ve got to go back to the cabinet and—I’m not even sure this is an English word— ‘recapacitate’ the cabinet, so make it bigger, put more widgets in there, or sometimes even build another cabinet to go beside it. So, I think that’s what you’re talking about. [20] Russell George: That is exactly what I’m talking about. So, are those premises that can’t get superfast broadband because of capacity classed as premises that are passed properties? [21] Julie James: No. [22] Russell George: Okay. So, therein, they are regarded as being in the 4 per cent. [23] Julie James: Yes, so there’s a shadow area for that. Simon’s going to explain some of the technical widgetry, I think, at this point. [24] Mr Jones: We would say that those premises are passed, I think, because the really difficult-to-build infrastructure has been put in.