Fifh Session, 41st Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Friday, August 14, 2020 Afernoon Sitting Issue No. 360

THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Fifth Session, 41st Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training...... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General...... Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Anne Kang Minister of Education ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Economic Development and Competitiveness...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Afairs and Housing...... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture...... Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Claire Trevena

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Tird Party ...... Adam Olsen Deputy Speaker...... Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Simon Gibson Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel...... Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...... Artour Sogomonian Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst...... Jennifer Arril Senior Research Analyst...... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Penticton Abbotsford-Mission...... Simon Gibson Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford South...... Hon. Darryl Plecas Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Abbotsford West...... Michael de Jong, QC Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Begg, Garry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Guildford Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Hon. Anne Kang Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds...... Raj Chouhan Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Burnaby North ...... Janet Routledge Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey South Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Donna Barnett Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North...... Coralee Oakes Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Chilliwack ...... John Martin Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack-Kent ...... Laurie Troness Chow, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Doug Clovechok Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Joan Isaacs Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Langley East Coquitlam-Maillardville ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Courtenay-Comox...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Delta North...... Ravi Kahlon de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta South ...... Ian Paton Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Esquimalt-Metchosin ...... Mitzi Dean D’Eith, Bob (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Fraser-Nicola ...... Jackie Tegart Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Peter Milobar Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kamloops–South Tompson...... Todd Stone Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Norm Letnick Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission ...... Steve Tomson Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kelowna West ...... Ben Stewart Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kootenay East...... Tom Shypitka Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kootenay West...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Langford–Juan de Fuca ...... Hon. John Horgan Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Langley ...... Mary Polak Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Langley East...... Rich Coleman Glumac, Rick (NDP)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Mission...... Bob D’Eith Heyman, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Hon. Lisa Beare Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca Mid Island–Pacifc Rim...... Hon. Scott Fraser Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Nanaimo...... Sheila Malcolmson Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Nechako Lakes...... John Rustad Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Queensborough Nelson-Creston ...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)...... Delta North New Westminster...... Hon. Judy Darcy Kang, Hon. Anne (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Coast ...... Jennifer Rice Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Island...... Hon. Claire Trevena Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Bowinn Ma Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara North Vancouver–Seymour...... Jane Tornthwaite Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ...... Courtenay-Comox Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Parksville-Qualicum...... Michelle Stilwell Ma, Bowinn (NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Peace River North ...... Dan Davies Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ...... Nanaimo Peace River South ...... Mike Bernier Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Penticton ...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Tompson Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Rick Glumac Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Nicholas Simons Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie...... Mike Morris Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount ...... Shirley Bond Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond North Centre...... Teresa Wat Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)...... Delta South Richmond-Queensborough...... Jas Johal Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.)...... Abbotsford South Richmond South Centre ...... Linda Reid Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston ...... John Yap Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands ...... Adam Olsen Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South ...... Hon. Lana Popham Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Shuswap...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond South Centre Skeena...... Ellis Ross Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Stikine...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Marvin Hunt Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)...... Skeena Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Routledge, Janet (NDP)...... Burnaby North Surrey–Green Timbers...... Rachna Singh Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Guildford...... Garry Begg Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Surrey-Panorama ...... Jinny Sims Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey South ...... Stephanie Cadieux Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Sims, Jinny (NDP)...... Surrey-Panorama Surrey–White Rock ...... Tracy Redies Singh, Rachna (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. George Heyman Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–False Creek...... Sam Sullivan Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. George Chow Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver-Hastings ...... Hon. Shane Simpson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Kensington...... Mable Elmore Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kingsway...... Hon. Adrian Dix Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Langara...... Michael Lee Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Hon. Melanie Mark Tomson, Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Point Grey ...... Hon. David Eby, QC Tornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Quilchena...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Troness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vernon-Monashee ...... Eric Foster Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Hon. Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.)...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano...... Ralph Sultan Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky...... Jordan Sturdy

Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; Independent 2; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS

Friday, August 14, 2020 Afernoon Sitting Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 12457

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply ...... 12457 Estimates: Ofce of the Premier (continued) A. Wilkinson Hon. J. Horgan Estimates: Legislative Assembly Estimates: Ofcers of the Legislature

Supply Motions...... 12478 Reports of resolutions from Committee of Supply Funds granted for public service Hon. C. James

Introduction and First Reading of Bills...... 12479 Bill 25 — Supply Act, 2020–2021 Hon. C. James

Second Reading of Bills ...... 12479 Bill 25 — Supply Act, 2020–2021 Hon. C. James

Committee of the Whole House...... 12479 Bill 25 — Supply Act, 2020–2021

Report and Tird Reading of Bills...... 12479 Bill 25 — Supply Act, 2020–2021

Royal Assent to Bills...... 12479 Bill 2 — Motor Vehicle Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 4 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2020 Bill 5 — Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 6 — Mines Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 11 — Attorney General Statutes (Vehicle Insurance) Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 13 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 14 — Municipal Afairs and Housing Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2020 Bill 18 — Economic Stabilization (COVID-19) Act Bill 20 — Motor Vehicle Amendment Act (No. 2), 2020 Bill 21 — Wills, Estates and Succession Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 23 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 24 — Municipalities Enabling and Validating (No. 4) Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 25 — Supply Act, 2020–2021

12457

FRIDAY, AUGUST 14, 2020 the concerns of the Tŝilhqot’in First Nation about the Bill 17 energy bill. It would have allowed dirty American nuc- Te House met at 1:33 p.m. lear and coal power to come to British Columbia to replace power that was no longer coming from independent [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] power producers, which are usually part and parcel of a First Nation enterprise. Routine Business Tese concerns continued. I have a letter from the shíshálh First Nation dated August 4, 2020, in which they Introductions by Members say: “Our community greatly values the ability to build industrial development that contributes meaningfully to D. Davies: Good afernoon, everyone. It gives me great self-determination. Te proposed amendments would pleasure to welcome and introduce Gurdeep Pandher, who instead export those jobs and investments to the United came to Canada in 2006 and settled in Whitehorse, Yukon States.” Tey go on to say on another topic: “Your stated in 2012. He is an IT specialist, but he shares his passion, policy on community benefts agreements contradicts the which everybody knows now, of bhangra, a traditional amendments your government has tabled in the Legis- form of dance from the Punjab region of India, which he lature for the clean energy sector.” started learning when he was 17. Te First Nations Leadership Council goes on to say: Many members of the Legislature as well as the staf had “Te proposed Clean Energy Act amendments will have a the opportunity this afernoon to join in the rotunda for a detrimental environmental impact by providing the gov- bhangra lesson. It’s defnitely a physical workout that I did ernment with discretion to self-defne ‘clean energy’ and not expect. ‘clean resources’ to include any type of power production, When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, Gurdeep started including brown thermal generation, thereby opening the ofering his dance classes online. He has taught hundreds door to brown energy imports from Alberta or the U.S.” of people virtually from his cabin near Lake Laberge. Te Tla-o-qui-aht First Nation said similar things. Gurdeep has travelled to British Columbia here to see his “Indigenous people in B.C. have built, operated and part- parents, who live in Abbotsford, and to spread his message nered with industry to produce clean, made-in-B.C. of happiness, diversity and caring. power. Tose investments have generated revenue, jobs It is a pleasure to welcome Gurdeep to the Legislature and opportunities throughout the province. Our com- today to share this message of positivity during this chal- munity greatly values the ability to build industrial devel- lenging time that we’re all facing. Would the House please opment that contributes to self-determination. Te pro- make Gurdeep feel welcome. posed amendments would export those jobs and invest- ments to the United States.” One gets the point. Orders of the Day Dr. Judith Sayers, president of the First Nations council, says: “Every step the B.C. government takes in clean Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call continued energy is away from B.C. First Nations ability to develop debate on the estimates of the Ofce of the Premier. power now and in the future. Tey are not listening to Nuu-chah-nulth’s desires to create clean energy for eco- Committee of Supply nomic purposes. Tey do support minor development on reserve, but that is not enough. Why is B.C. trying to ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER stife entrepreneurship, especially First Nation entrepren- (continued) eurship?” A good question, Premier. Te House in Committee of Supply (Section B); R. Chouhan in the chair. Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for the question, which we ended up on prior to the break. Te committee met at 1:35 p.m. I think it’s important that the House understand that Bill 17 is on the order paper. It remains there. It will be part On Vote 11: Ofce of the Premier, $11,334,000 and parcel of the next session of the House when we begin (continued). debates again. On the principles of consultation, I want to advise Te Chair: Members, before we start the questions and members that the province began engagements with answers again, a reminder to all people that all questions First Nations on phase 2 of B.C. Hydro’s review in must be asked through the Chair and answered through September of 2019. the Chair as well. Interjection. A. Wilkinson: Before the break, we were talking about 12458 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

Hon. J. Horgan: Tat’s a component part of that, my changes. B.C. Hydro is committed to making sure that friend. happens, and we’re going to reinforce that. Te interim report included a proposal to remove self- sufciency requirements. Tat release came out, of course, A. Wilkinson: Well, that little diatribe on energy policy in March of 2020. Further engagement with Indigenous seems to be about ten years out of date. Te Premier says peoples went throughout May. In-person regional discus- he’s going to buy clean-only power from America. Amer- sions in Terrace. Five teleconferences and sessions in Kam- ican power is overwhelmingly produced by coal and nat- loops, Kelowna, Prince George, Nanaimo and Vancouver. ural gas generation. It’s an integrated grid continent-wide Two webinars. Twenty-six individual online meetings and except for Texas. So the Premier says: “No, we’ll skip that teleconferences. Twenty-two written submissions. big nuclear plant in Richmond, Washington. We’ll skip We heard from over 80 First Nations and Indigenous those huge coal plants though Wyoming and Colorado. organizations. Some in support of self-sufciency, some We’ll just be selective and kind and nice, and only select not. All of that was taken into account, and Bill 17 remains the nice power from America.” on the order paper. How naive can this Premier possibly be? British Col- [1:40 p.m.] umbia set out on a pathway to develop self-sufciency in I think the Leader of the Opposition is missing the energy for a good reason: because we, along with Que- broader point about where we are in the energy markets in bec, are the biggest producers of hydro power on the con- British Columbia and, broadly speaking, in North Amer- tinent. We had vast amounts of further hydro capacity ica. We have an abundance of clean, green energy in Brit- which involved opportunity for First Nations like never ish Columbia. Almost 99 percent of the energy produced seen before. Tat’s exactly what happened. in British Columbia comes from clean sources. It is our Now the Premier says: “We’re awash in power, and it’s strength. It gives us market power in North America. all going to be wasted somehow.” Has he ever heard of Most analysts understand that when they look at our electric cars? Ever? Has he not heard of the Indigenous ability to hold water in our reservoirs and buy, on the mar- eforts to build a solar power generation facility? Has he ket, solar power, wind power — which is in surplus in not heard of the concern amongst First Nations that the the United States at this time. It makes economic sense to sole purpose of this bill is to give the government market take advantage of our market power and use our strength power to turn down IPP renewals or to intimidate them through our reservoirs that were built up over decades to into price reductions? make sure British Columbia could be dominant in hydro- We go back to the statements from the First Nations — electric energy in North America. the indignation that in the wake of the UNDRIP legisla- Te former government, in its wisdom, put in place a tion last November, this Premier has the gall to stand up clean energy policy that prohibited B.C. Hydro, which has in this room and say: “Don’t worry about it; they’ll get an export arm called Powerex that plays the market on over it.” Well, that’s just the most condescending possible behalf of British Columbians, taking advantage of low-cost approach when we’re in an era of reconciliation. Here we energy when energy is at its highest point here in British have the Energy Minister saying on July 28: “Government Columbia. Tere was a report commissioned some years consulted widely on this proposal as part of the Hydro ago that identifed $16 billion in additional costs as a result phase 2 review.” of the self-sufciency program. Well we just heard a string of inputs, but the results We have engaged with Indigenous peoples. No contracts speak for themselves in the strongly stated letters express- that currently exist have been afected. Any contracts that ing the indignation of Indigenous people all over British were underway or in negotiation are being fulflled. Tere Columbia at the absolute double-cross by this government has not been a clean call for energy in British Columbia on one of the key issues that gives them prosperity: inde- since 2008. Tat’s the previous government’s record. We pendent power projects. Tis government was prepared to are awash in energy, hon. Members. We are doing our level stab them in the back in terms of bargaining position just best to keep costs down for consumers. before the IPPs come up for renewal. Tat’s the essence of We want to make sure that people are not paying the the lack of consultation. Tat’s the disrespect shown. costs of bad policy decisions. Te self-sufciency policy [1:45 p.m.] was a bad policy brought in at a time when the world was Premier, it’s easy to fx this. It’s easy to come clean. flling with clean, green opportunities — solar, wind, in All it takes is for this Premier to stand up in this House California particularly. Our market dominance allows us and say two things: “Bill 17 will be withdrawn. We were to buy that clean, green power at a discount and bring it wrong.” And that the government of British Columbia into British Columbia so we can reduce costs for ratepay- apologizes for violating the spirit of UNDRIP on the frst ers. Tat has a lot to do with people and not a lot to do with available opportunity. anything else. With respect to the Indigenous peoples who have got Hon. J. Horgan: Well, look. Again, I appreciate that the projects underway or projects completed, nothing hyperbole of the Leader of the Opposition is designed for Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12459 purposes that are not known to me — certainly not to We’ve gone to the Utilities Commission, and we now educate and inform people watching this debate today. We have applications put forward for Aboriginal or Indigen- do know that we have surplus energy in British Colum- ous utilities so that Indigenous Peoples can indeed have bia today. We have more energy than we can use. But we that independence and that autonomy through econom- also know that it’s going to be critical to the greening of the ic development that they’re asking for in their corres- economy, to meet our climate objectives which are laid out pondence. in CleanBC. To attach to a policy that is very much outdated, hon. Yes, I know there are electric cars, hon. Member, Member, going back to 2005 with the energy market com- because the Minister of Finance had to top up the electric pletely transformed, to say that we must stay with that car incentive program three times in one calendar year. because it was Gordon Campbell’s idea is the wrong way. Tis is a popular initiative. Despite that, we remain in a We’re taking input not from New Democrats, but from surplus of electricity. Te bill required that any imported energy economists across North America saying British electricity be renewable and clean and green. It’s part of the Columbia is in an enviable position because of our micro- bill. You can go back and take a look at it. It’s part of the hydro, because of our massive investments in large dams. bill. We have an opportunity to play the market. I thought We need to understand that the former government that the free-enterprisers would get this, but apparently it brought in a policy that said that regardless of the cost, falls to me to explain to them how markets work. British B.C. Hydro can only buy energy from one place — that Columbians… was within the confnes of British Columbia. Now, if we were talking about ferries — only buying ferries construc- Interjections. ted in British Columbia — that would make sense to me, because ferries are very big. Tey’re labour-intensive. You Te Chair: Members. can see a practical outcome. Electrons are very, very small, and the generation of them from clean sources benefts all Hon. J. Horgan: …want us to make sure that the energy of us. that we’re producing is as low-cost as possible. But the people on the other side want to control and manipulate Interjections. the market. Tey want to disregard all of the teachings that they profess day afer day and instead heap costs on the Te Chair: Members. backs of people. We’re not prepared to do that. Will we work with Indi- Hon. J. Horgan: Te key to all of this, though, is that the genous Peoples to see economic opportunity? Yes, yes and people on the other side did not care about the cost… yes. We’ve been doing that since the day we were sworn in. Every single member of my cabinet in their mandate Interjections. letters have three things they need to focus on. Te UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous Peoples, passed in Te Chair: Members, the Premier has the foor. this Legislature — thankfully, unanimously by all mem- bers of this House — working to ensure that the Tŝil- Hon. J. Horgan: …of their folly when it comes to the hqot’in decision about rights and title is understood and people of British Columbia, the ratepayers at B.C. Hydro. recognized by every ministry — not just one or two; every Some $16 billion above market was paid for power that we ministry. now have to move somewhere, and we can’t do that if B.C. Tat has been our focus, hon. Member. I will not apo- Hydro’s hands are tied. logize to the Leader of the Ofcial Opposition for putting [1:50 p.m.] British Columbians frst as we develop policies that take us Te initiative that we brought forward through Bill 17 into the future, not cling to their past. was not designed to stife entrepreneurship, quite the con- trary. It was designed to give fexibility to B.C. Hydro, the A. Wilkinson: Te pattern that’s evolved today is that Crown corporation that belongs to all British Columbi- when the Premier doesn’t want to answer a question, he ans — not B.C. Liberals, all British Columbians — and gives a speech about something entirely unrelated. designed to make sure we can keep costs down. What does the Premier say to Judith Sayers of the Nuu- What have we done in the three years we’ve been here? chah-nulth First Nations when she says: “Tey are not We not only have fattened the curve on COVID-19; we’ve listening to Nuu-chah-nulth’s desires to create clean fattened the curve on increases in hydro rates for people. energy for economic purposes…. Why is B.C. trying to Te ten-year plan that the B.C. Liberals had saw rates stife entrepreneurship, especially First Nation entrepren- going up year afer year afer year. Since we’ve come to eurship?” power, we’ve fattened that. We’ve brought rates down for It’s a simple question, Premier. In light of UNDRIP, is people. this your frst gesture, to completely dismiss Judith Sayers? 12460 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

Te Chair: Trough the Chair, Member. anything no matter how obvious the blunder, let’s look at [1:55 p.m.] the article in the Vancouver Province, because this will be a blunder that afects 640,000 students in British Colum- Hon. J. Horgan: Well, again, frstly, micro-hydro is not bia and a million parents, and it’s happening four weeks the only opportunity for economic development in British from today. Te article in the Province dated August 5, Columbia. Every contract that is in place is being hon- ’20, said…. It’s written by two professors, one a professor oured. Every economic initiative that had a hydro com- emeritus, the other one a professor at UBC. Te headline ponent is being honoured by B.C. Hydro, whether the pro- is: “B.C.’s Schools Policy Is At Odds With Everything We ject comes to fruition or not. Know So Far About the Science Of COVID Transmission.” What we’re saying with the self-sufciency policy is if Te subheadline: “By requiring parents to send their chil- anyone, not just Indigenous Peoples, but community dren back to in-person classes, the B.C. government is put- power authorities, if they so create, or small entrepren- ting many lives in jeopardy.” eurs…. If they can produce energy at competitive market Some quotes. “B.C.’s cases of COVID per day have more prices, we’ll buy it. Tat’s the principle here. I don’t know than tripled in the last two months…. No jurisdiction has why the free enterprisers on the other side don’t under- reopened schools under such conditions.” I should note stand that. We should not say to ratepayers across British that this was written nine days ago, and the COVID count Columbia: “You’re going to have to pay a little bit more, has gone through a dramatic exponential increase since because we want to buy power from this place at a price then, and those are just the ones we’ve found through test- that’s above market rates.” It’s really that simple. ing. Tere are many more out there, Premier, and they’re Do we want to engage with First Nations for economic waiting to be found. opportunity? Absolutely. Tat’s why we’re working with “B.C. is not only reopening its schools; it is efectively making the Tahltan. Tat’s why we’re working with the Ktunaxa attendance — indoors, for prolonged periods of time — mandat- with respect to mining reform in the northwest and in ory…. By not allowing most existing schools a chance to ofer a re- mote schooling option, the B.C. government is putting many lives the southeast. Tat’s why we’re working with the Car- in jeopardy. One parent has already threatened to sue, and over rier and the Cheslatta in central British Columbia on 10,000 have signed a petition calling for classroom attendance to forest reform on making sure that the pathway forward be optional, and with good reason.” for Indigenous Peoples on their territory with their We should note that there was an active demonstration resources is shared equally. in front of the Health Minister’s ofce this morning by Tere’s a whole range of issues we’re working on each about 30 parents, led by a former NDP candidate, saying and every day. I appreciate it’s topical for the member to that this is absurd. One of the signs said: “Six feet apart, raise energy, but again, I have to remind him that he needs not six feet under.” Parents take this extremely seriously. to go back and look at the record of his party when it [2:00 p.m.] comes to raising costs for people, Indigenous and non- I’ll carry on with the article. Indigenous. If we direct B.C. Hydro to only buy the most “B.C.’s sudden reversal from allowing people to make wise de- expensive power in the marketplace when there are other cisions to forcing their hands into putting their children in jeop- options available to us, we’re doing a disservice to millions ardy makes no medical sense. of British Columbians. I’m not prepared to do that. “We call on the government of British Columbia to provide the possibility of remote education to those who choose it and, for schools who wish to ofer it, the possibility of ofering it. Al- A. Wilkinson: As we make the journey through life, I berta, Manitoba and Ontario are ofering their citizens and schools think all of us recognize that leadership’s a complicated choice, a mix of remote and in-person learning. UBC will largely business. It involves recognizing that nobody’s perfect. It be remote in the fall,” as will most universities and colleges. “Tere is no reason for British Columbia not to ofer its children and their involves recognizing errors. families and their teachers that same choice.” Clearly, this government recognized it made an error Tis has been percolating for fve months, and it when it took Bill 17 of the order paper for this session, afects every child in our province from the age of fve because the government had made a serious blunder in to 18 and a million parents. Somehow, for some reason, insulting and degrading their relationship with First this government couldn’t fgure out that remote learning Nations all over British Columbia at the frst available is a desirable thing. opportunity afer signing UNDRIP. Te question, obviously, goes to the Premier: what on I’ve asked the Premier to apologize. He’s clearly refusing earth has happened that it takes demonstrations from par- to do so. He’s refusing to recognize his error, engaging in ents in the streets to bring to attention this obvious issue this rambling economic diatribe when the issue is about of providing for remote learning — and more than just the respect. It’s about the most human of relationships with platitudes of the Education Minister? Tis is remote learn- the Tŝilhqot’in, with the Nuu-chah-nulth and with the Tse- ing for any child who wants it and for the parents who shaht, who are blown of and ignored as they look at their need and want it. Why has it not been prepared for? Why communities and hope for the future. is it not being ofered? Given that the Premier is not inclined to apologize for Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12461

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for his question. in the middle of a global pandemic. We are committed to Look, this is an extremely stressful time for all British making sure that our kids are safe, and although I appreci- Columbians, but it’s a particularly stressful time for those ate the views of the doctors that the Leader of the Oppos- who have school-aged children and those who work in ition read to me from their opinion piece, we’ve been tak- the education system. Hundreds of thousands of people ing our advice from Dr. Henry and her public health team, are involved here, hundreds of thousands all across B.C., which has done an extraordinary job. I know that all mem- all coming at this from a diferent perspective, whether bers acknowledge that. But that’s where we’re getting our you’re a parent, whether you’re a child, whether you’re a advice from. teacher, whether you’re a support worker, whether you’re a We’re not making this up. We’re not forcing things on superintendent, whether you’re an administrator, whether people. We’re looking at the evidence as it comes to us you’re a trustee duly elected in boards — 59 of them and, from Dr. Henry and her team. We’re making decisions. plus, the French board, all across British Columbia. Te Minister of Education has been working with all of the Not an easy answer to the questions that are being posed stakeholders on a daily basis for months, and we’ll contin- by the Leader of the Opposition, and I hope that he appre- ue to do so for the months ahead. Tat’s our priority. Tat’s ciates that. our objective. And that’s what we’re going to realize. [2:05 p.m.] I do not discourage the members opposite from con- We have been doing our level best to take input from all tinuing to press the issue. Tat’s absolutely their role. But I sources. We have stakeholder groups across the province do hope that they will fnd a grain of that non-partisanship that include parents, teachers, the administrators and oth- that we talked about not that long ago and acknowledge ers that I’ve made reference to, all trying to fnd the way and recognize that when you’re dealing with hundreds of forward, trying to fnd that balance. If it’s a hybrid balance, thousands of people right across British Columbia, there is that’s where we’ll go. not a one-size-fts-all answer. And that’s why we’re work- When I talk about fexibility today, I hope that the Lead- ing hard to make sure we get it right, community by com- er of the Opposition won’t just jump up then and criticize munity, school by school, child by child. that, but that’s what we have to do. We are in uncertain times, unprecedented times, and it requires us to be aware A. Wilkinson: We just heard a stream of excuses. Four of what’s going on around us on a daily basis, to make sure weeks today, 600,000 students are supposed to return to we’re engaging with all of the people involved, to ensure we school. Every instructional day in British Columbia, the get the best outcomes possible for kids. How are we going Ministry of Education spends $35 million to run the sys- to achieve that — $45 million going back into the system tem. What we hear is an excuse. “Oh, connectivity is not in midyear to ensure that we can have extensive cleaning great everywhere.” Well, Premier, if you turn of Netfix in our classrooms, that we can have the PPE that’s needed during the daytime, there is lots of bandwidth for 98 per- for our kids, for our teachers and others within the system. cent of the province, and that’s where the students will be. But at the end of the day, virtual learning will not be the complete solution. Interjection. I’m looking for my friend from Peace River North. He’s not here at the moment. I know he’s in the precinct. A. Wilkinson: Well, the Premier asks for a letter. Surely, What we’ve discovered through the COVID pandemic, he would have looked into this in the last fve months to as we’ve depended on Zoom technologies to communicate fgure it out for himself. Connectivity is an excuse, except quite efectively across the province, is that connectivity in in the most remote locations. Tey’ve been teaching British Columbia is not what it could be. We have made school in remote parts of Australia by shortwave radio for signifcant investments. We will be making more invest- the last 70 years. Connectivity is an excuse. ments in connectivity to bring communities together so Te issue that not every child has access to technology that we can have more virtual learning, virtual commerce — that could have been solved in the last fve months. A and virtual interactions, but it is uneven across the good laptop costs 500 bucks, and this ministry spends $35 province. million a day — probably 70,000 laptops with one day’s If I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it a hundred times as I’ve budget. been engaging with people throughout B.C.: the techno- It’s time to focus on the results. Time to focus less on logy is not even in every community. Similarly, all house- the inputs and the excuses. Te results could be catastro- holds don’t have access to multiple terminals or multiple phic — an outbreak in schools, particularly a high school; tablets for multiple children. So in families, there’s an grandparents infected. uneven distribution of technology. Across the province, [2:10 p.m.] there’s an uneven distribution of technology to bring Te concern we all have is it’s pretty clear that this people together. We’re aware of it. We’re working on it. Te fall, as the number of cases increases, people are going to private sector is helping in that regard as well. die. And it is so unnecessary for students to be vectors Tese are all bits of good news, but they’re all conspiring and conduits for disease when they could be learning 12462 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 remotely instead of exposing themselves and others to go forward, what we work through in that frst week with the risks of a lethal virus. teachers, with support staf and then as the children start Te Premier talks of Dr. Henry. Well, here he seems to to come into the classroom. have forgotten what he said two days ago, on the 12th, in a How will we go forward from here? Again, we have been press conference. He was asked by a reporter, in reference relying on the extraordinary work of Dr. Henry and her to a poll that indicated 50 percent of parents are not com- public health ofcials — working with superintendents; fortable with back-to-school planning and sending their working with CUPE, who keep the schools clean; working kids back to school as planned…. with a host of people in every corner of British Columbia Dr. Henry said: “Yeah, this is perhaps a question for the to try and get this right. Premier. I will just say that, you know, my job is to provide [2:20 p.m.] the health framework. I think that some of what you’re We will modify and improve as new information comes talking about refects the concern we all have, you know, forward. Tat’s appropriate, and that’s what British Colum- how this is going to work and wanting to know the details.” bians expect from us. And she handed the question back to the Premier. Again, I realize that not everyone is going to agree. Te Premier said — something he seems to have for- Tere are going to be those who just will not want to par- gotten in the last 48 hours: “At the end of the day, the ticipate, and that is absolutely their right. Tere will be decisions rest with me and my government.” concessions and whatever attempts we can make to ensure Get the hardware. You should’ve done that three months that the children are getting the services they need in a ago. Get the connectivity. It already exists for 98 percent of way that’s comfortable for parents. Tat’s the commitment the population. Get the programs in place. Tey’re already we’ve made as a government. Tat’s the commitment that I in use all over the province through independent distance think all British Columbians expect from us. learning, private schools, denominational schools — some We have to realize that the vast majority of British Col- schools that prefer to use distance learning. umbians understand and recognize that going forward is It’s already being used in every university and college what we need to do, not go backwards. Gord Lau from in the province for 435,000 students this fall. Tere is no the DPAC in Vancouver — the district parent advisory excuse about lack of curriculum, lack of hardware, lack of council: “For me personally, Dr. Henry and the PHO have connectivity. It works for everybody else. really earned my confdence, and I’m ready to send my Yet the Premier, when asked by the media about how kids back.”Now, that’s the head of the district parent advis- this should be addressed…. Te answer was somewhat ory council in Vancouver. alarming. “What can you say to parents to ease their Tere are going to be people within that PAC that dis- concerns?” Te Premier’s response: “I can’t help with the agree with that point of view — absolutely legitimate, anxiety.” absolutely appropriate for parents to put their children Premier, you can. You could’ve solved this problem. It’s frst. But we cannot say that because there are some people incumbent on you to solve it before grandparents die and who don’t want to proceed, we shouldn’t proceed at all. before people are knocked out of the workforce by illness What we need to do…. Te appropriate response is the and students abandon schools by the tens of thousands. It’s response of the Minister of Education — continue to your responsibility. What are you going to do? engage with people, continue to talk about how we can make the system safer and better for our kids, for those Te Chair: Trough the Chair, Member. who work in the system. Tat’s what we’re doing, and we’ll [2:15 p.m.] continue to do that today, tomorrow, the day afer that, right up into September and beyond because that’s what Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for his question. people expect of us, and appropriately so. Listen, I fully appreciate the anxiety that people are feel- ing. As a parent, I remember full well my spouse and I tak- A. Wilkinson: Did I just hear the Premier say that par- ing our kids to their frst day at class and the excitement ents who do not feel safe sending their children to school and the apprehension that we felt. Tat was outside of a will be ofered distance learning, yes or no? pandemic. Tat was in normal times. Tere is something about September. It’s something Hon. J. Horgan: Tere is home schooling. Tere are dis- about the Labour Day weekend that reminds us all — tance learning opportunities. Seventy-some organizations adults, children and youth, all of us — about that return ofer that. It exists now. It will exist during the pandemic. to something that we’re familiar with. Tat’s going back to school. A. Wilkinson: Well, that is probably the biggest insult to Tis year will be drastically diferent than any other year a million parents I’ve heard in British Columbia this year. we’ve ever experienced, not just in how we feel but what we see when we arrive at our classrooms. Distance learn- Interjection. ing will be an integral part of what we come up with as we Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12463

A. Wilkinson: And now the pugnacious Premier is call- Hon. J. Horgan: Te distance learning fund in the last ing me out for telling the truth. Mr. Chair, the Premier year of the B.C. Liberals was $65 million. Tis year it’s $84 seems to want to step in the hallway and have a dispute. million. Tat’s a 4 percent increase. You can work on that. I also want, just to demonstrate the consistency of the Interjection. ofcial opposition on these matters…. Tis was from a Kelowna Chamber of Commerce Zoom meeting, the Mr. Chair: Te member has the foor, please. Leader of the Opposition. It’s rather lengthy, but I assume it’s the position that he holds. He made these comments on A. Wilkinson: We’re here to solve the problems in front July 28, which by my count was two weeks ago: of the people of British Columbia, on the record. Te Pre- “I was actually pleased to hear this morning that the Vancouver mier says: “Pull your child out of school for home school- Coastal public health ofcer was saying: ‘Look, their goal is to have ing.” Tat’s not credible or sensible as a response. Te Pre- all the kids back in school and K to 12 on September 8, fve days a week, because the risk to kids in the classroom is low because it’s mier says: “Put your child into independent distance not a youth-oriented disorder.’” learning.” Tat’s not me saying that. I don’t even know if it’s the Well, let’s hear from a parent about their experience public health ofcial. I do know it was the Leader of the with IDL, or independent distance learning, just this Ofcial Opposition. He went on to say this: spring. Lori Stephan, from Duncan: “You know, I’m a former doctor” — I’ve heard that — “so I can “I’m writing this letter as a parent of two children with the in- tell you all about Kawasaki syndrome and the rare occurrences in dependent distance learning school system, with learning disabilit- children. But generally, kids are pretty safe. And her point was, as ies, 16 and 13 years old, right during the end of the year, making us the public health ofcer of two million people in Coastal Health, parents scramble, placing worry and fear, not only in us as adults there’s a huge cost to be paid to continue social isolation, especially but our children as well. Te world is already upside down due to of children. Keeping their parents out of their productive work or the pandemic. Tis is because the Premier and his cabinet cut $12 tied down dealing, in an 800-square-foot apartment, with one or a million out of the funding on May 4, efective July 1, gutting the couple of unemployed, and two kids going around tearing the place independent distance learning system at its most critical moment, apart — that’s not good for your health either.” when it’s needed throughout the province.” Now, I disagree with almost everything in that quote, As she says: but it was the words of the Leader of the Ofcial Opposi- “Many of the children who are receiving services are children tion, who is saying that I am insulting, I’m degrading and with learning diferences. Te changes thrown at them during this time was a steep change for all. However, every one of my service I’m not listening to people, when he has a diferent posi- providers is so helpful and kept the spirits of my children going, in tion every other day. My position has been consistent — spite of this government decision. You have stolen my time from that we will continue to engage with people every single what should have been focused on both of the kids. day because that’s what they expect of us. Tat’s why we “Te kids that you just cut funding for will be those kids who should be contributing members of society. Independent schools, came here. Tat’s why we were elected — to lif people up, at-home learning were created out of necessity. Te children that to focus on their needs. did not ft the system learn diferently and, I might add, are being very successful. Interjections. “Distance learning and creating our diverse curriculum was not done out of thin air. Independent at-home learning schools gave my children hope. Now you have gutted the funding. I really don’t Te Chair: Members, the Premier has the foor. understand the reasoning. You targeted the most vulnerable popu- lation that cannot even speak for themselves.” Hon. J. Horgan: Tat’s what we’re doing, and it’s never Tat’s what your government did on May 4 of this year, good enough for the doctor on the other side, because he and now the Premier has the gall to stand here in this just can’t for a minute engage in a civil discourse about the room and say: “Well, parents can sign up for independent important needs of the people of British Columbia. Tat’s distance learning.” No, they can’t. You gutted the budget. what I want to do. Te member for Kamloops–South We’ve heard a stream of excuses of why the anxieties Tompson does it most of the time. Tat’s what all of us of parents will not be addressed. And of course, none of should be doing. us are looking forward to that headline in the newspapers I’m committed to making sure that if parents need or on social media saying: “Outbreak at School X, Y, Z — distance learning, we’ll fnd the resources to put it in 400,000 Students Go Home, and Parents Panic.” place. Applications are coming in right now. Te Premier, what are you going to do about independent budget’s higher than it was on their watch. Stop making distance learning, and what are you going to do about stuf up and pick a position. Do you want kids in class or online learning? out of class? I can’t tell. [2:25 p.m.] A. Wilkinson: Te Premier continues to sow seeds of Mr. Chair: Trough the Chair, Member. confusion to avoid the issue. Two things. Te health risk Premier. to children is low, the risk of transmission to parents 12464 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 is high, and the risk of transmission to grandparents is you shouldn’t send the kids back.” Pick a line. Take a posi- even higher. tion, and stand with it. Or better yet, join with us, be fex- Tat’s what the families are worried about. Tat’s why ible, and meet the science as it presents itself. they want distance learning, and that’s why they’re upset Te B.C. Centre for Disease Control doesn’t write opin- that you cut $14 million out of the distance learning ion pieces in the Province, I’m afraid. Tey just give good budget on May 4 of this year, when you should have been advice to governments, and we’ve been implementing that anticipating the growth of demand. Now we’ve heard that, advice. An overwhelming number of people are looking apparently, the demand for distance learning will be sat- at that advice and saying: “I’m comfortable today with the isfed. Well, this a complete reversal of position that we’ve way we’re going, with a mix of distance learning and in- heard today, ten minutes ago. class teaching.” It’s a very simple question, Premier. Will you… It’s important for kids. I know that anyone who has got children on the other side of the House knows that school Te Chair: Trough the Chair. is critically important to them, not just for the stimula- tion, intellectually, but for the socialization components. A. Wilkinson: …fund and support and guarantee that It’s critically important. For those who are immunocom- for parents who are uncomfortable having their children promised, for those who have other issues, we are ready go to school because of health risk to them, their grand- and available to help them out. Te Minister of Education parents, their family or whoever, that parental wish will is there. Tere are school trustees across British Columbia be respected and that Internet learning will be provided that are working overtime to make sure that kids are safe throughout the province of British Columbia wherever it’s and that they’re getting in the education they deserve. feasible? It’s a very simple question: can parents rely on I don’t know what part of that answer the folks on the distance learning or not? other side disagree with. I guess it’s because it was the pos- [2:30 p.m.] ition they had two weeks ago, and now they’ve decided to have a diferent position. [S. Gibson in the chair.] A. Wilkinson: It probably bears reading again. Hon. J. Horgan: I will again say that there are 56 public Reporter: “Fify percent of parents are not comfortable with the IDLs and 16 privates. Tey’re all taking enrolment right back-to-school planning and sending their kids back to school.” now and will continue to do so. Tere was not a cut. Tere Dr. Henry’s response: “Yeah, this is perhaps a question for the Premier. It refects the concern we all have — you know, how this was an increase in the budget. is going to work and wanting to know the details.” Te Premier’s response: “At the end of the day, the decisions rest Interjections. with me and my government.” Tere’s no fobbing this of. Te question has to be Hon. J. Horgan: We have those that clearly disagree squarely answered by the Premier and his Education with that. An increase in dollars is an increase in dollars. Minister. Tey’ve talked about capacity and independent distance learning. Does every one of those portals have Interjections. the capacity for 9,000 students so that 640,000 students can sign on? Te Chair: Members. Members, please let the Premier I’ll raise the question again. Is there capacity in the sys- speak. tem for all 640,000 K-to-12 students or not? [2:35 p.m.] [2:40 p.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: Te budget in 2016-2017 was $65 mil- Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I’ll just remind the House that lion; it’s now $84 million. Again, it’s an increase in funding. the Leader of the Opposition, when he was talking to the I guess we’re going to agree to disagree. chamber of commerce, said that he was pleased that Van- Maybe we can get back to the point at hand. Te couver Coastal Health had a goal of getting kids back into BCCDC has worked with school boards and the Ministry class fve days a week. So it was good enough for him talk- of Education to put in place the programs that we have. We ing to the chamber of commerce, but it doesn’t seem good know that there are families that are concerned about this. enough today. Tere are options available to them, as I’ve said. Tere will Again, I want to reiterate that our objective and our goal be no fees for that, as the fearmongers said on the other is to make sure we’re meeting the needs of every family in side — quite the contrary. We’re going to be able to deliver British Columbia. Tose needs are going to be diferent. It’s these services in a way that meets the needs of British Col- not going to be 640,000 going this way or 640,000 going umbians. that way. It is going to be a mix. It is not helpful to have the opposition, on a daily basis, I read one quote of the thousands we have of people going from, “Yes, you should send the kids back” to: “No, Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12465 involved in the system, whether they’re with district PACs, the base for distance learning through teachers using elec- or parent advisory councils in elementary schools across tronic devices, just like we do every day with Zoom, just British Columbia, parents who invest their time in making like universities and colleges are going to be doing every sure the system works not just for their kids, but for all day and have been doing since April? kids, working with teachers, skilled professionals…. It’s, obviously, a question to the Premier. Why do you Working with 4,200 more teachers, I would add, than we maintain this false choice between withdrawal from the would have had, had we had the former government con- public school and staying in the public school and being tinue on with this reckless path of fghting teachers all the forced to attend in person? Let the bricks-and-mortar way to the Supreme Court. school be the base for distance learning. Why can that not We’ve got 4,200 more teachers to provide services to happen? kids in B.C. Tat’s going to make for better outcomes. [2:50 p.m.] We’re going to try and fnd that balance that works for everybody. Tat’s what people expect of us, and that’s what Hon. J. Horgan: I would say to the members opposite we’re going to do. that school districts and schools exist to service the fam- Again, I just don’t understand how the Leader of the ilies in communities right across B.C. Tey’re diferent. Opposition can say one thing to a chamber of commerce Tey’re diferent, whether they’re in Tompson-Nicola, and quite another thing here in this Legislature. I appre- whether they’re in Surrey-Cloverdale or whether they’re in ciate that you need to be fexible on these issues. Tat’s Langford–Juan de Fuca. Schools and trustees and superin- exactly what I said, so I’m prepared to cut him some slack tendents and teachers are all there to service the needs of on that. But his indignation at the notion that we are going families and children. to be fexible is puzzling to me. We’ve been working full stop from March, when the I just say that we’re going to do our level best to make pandemic began. We had a brief voluntary period in June sure that if distance learning is what’s needed for families, where we were able to get a lot of data from teachers, it’s going to be available to them. We’re going to make sure from trustees, from administrators and from support staf that there are classrooms available for those kids and those to help shape the plan that we announced last month. parents who want to participate in the system, to make Since then, we’ve been working through school boards and sure that their children don’t fall further behind. Maybe schools. they’re not working as well with their iPads as they do Tis is the part that seems to be lost on the members when they’ve got a teacher and their friends around them. on the other side. Tere are key parts of all of our com- Tat’s the nature of individuality. munities. I don’t understand this. Am I the only one in Again, the free-enterprisers seem to think that there this place that has schools that are populated with caring are blanket answers for everything, and here I am talking and compassionate people who want to lif people up? Of about individuality and the importance of making sure course, I’m not. We all do. To disrespect those people, to that we shape the education program for every child as insult those people who are working every day to fnd a best we can. Tat’s what we’re trying to do. safe environment for their employees and for their kids…. [2:45 p.m.] Tat’s the disrespect that I’m hearing today. I’m not dishing it out on this side. I’m trying to say to A. Wilkinson: With all due respect, that was an utterly the Leader of the Opposition, who doesn’t seem to be able vacuous answer to the number one question on the minds to get his noggin around this, that we’re all in this together. of a million parents from British Columbia today. We cannot have schools without teachers, whether it’s Current government policy requires that the parents distance learning or in-class learning. We cannot have and the children stay in their public school and go to in- communities without trustees working hard to make person classes or withdraw completely from that bricks- sure that families in their communities are getting the and-mortar school and go to independent distance learn- services they need. Tat’s what we’re doing, and we’re ing or home-schooling. going to continue. Tis government cut $12 million out of the independent Right now, today, districts across British Columbia are distance learning budget on May 4. Tere could well be hearing from parents and developing plans that meet the a stampede of hundreds of thousands of students to IDL needs of those individuals. Everyone wants to continue to in the next six weeks. It clearly doesn’t have the capacity, have in-class teaching. Tey want to make sure that dis- especially afer the Premier’s budget cuts. tance learning is available for people. Tat’s what we’re Tis creates a false choice for parents: either stick with doing. Tat’s exactly what we’re doing. the bricks-and-mortar school, where you have no choice In the world that’s populated by the dour fellow on the but to attend in person, or withdraw from that school and other side here, everything is going to come apart, and desperately try to sign up for independent distance learn- 600,000 people are going to just disperse instantly, unless I ing, which is underfunded and under capacity. do something that’s incomprehensible from the questions Why cannot the bricks-and-mortar schools be used as he’s asking. 12466 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

I’ve said, time and time again…. Te Minister of Educa- Hon. J. Horgan: As I said and have said repeatedly, par- tion has said it. Trustees have said it. Superintendents have ents should be contacting their school. Tey should be said it. Dr. Henry has said it. We are going to try and make talking to the administrators, whether it’s the vice-prin- this work for everybody. Whatever they need, if it’s in class, cipals or principals. Tey should be talking to people in if it’s a hybrid, we’re going to work it out. their community to get the answers they need. We will not resolve it on a Friday afernoon in August Tey should not, under any circumstances, take guid- in this place when the debate is not about: what’s the best ance from the Leader of the Ofcial Opposition. course of action to lif up students? How do we make our schools work better? It’s about disrespecting each other. A. Wilkinson: Te reason they shouldn’t take guidance Tis hyper-partisanship is exactly what turns people of. from me is I don’t have a $65 billion budget, 300,000 indir- Why would they tune in…? ect employees, 28,000 people in the civil service and an earpiece in my ear telling me what to say. Interjections. Premier, the question is very simple. I’m going to ask it a fourth time to see if you fnally fnd the ability to answer Hon. J. Horgan: Here it comes. Here it comes, the wave it. Why isn’t there parental choice in the schools to allow of invective. How dare I call you out for what you’re doing? for an element of distance learning from the bricks-and- What are you doing, man? You’re here, yelling and scream- mortar school so that there will be easier social distancing, ing like it’s a middle school classroom, rather than having a safer school environment and genuine parental choice of a reasoned debate about what our kids need, what our dis- how their children can learn? tricts need, what our teachers need. Hon. J. Horgan: I’ll say, again, to parents that are con- Interjections. cerned that I appreciate this anxiety. Tey should imme- diately, if they have not already, contact their school, Te Chair: Members, come to order, please. Members. contact the trustees in their community and work through the system and allow the professionals — that Hon. J. Horgan: I’m delighted that I brought some lev- are dedicated, most of them their entire lives, to lifing ity to the opposition side. Clearly, they get none from the up children in British Columbia so we can all have a Leader of the Opposition. stronger, safer community — to work with the people on the ground that are delivering the services. Te Min- A. Wilkinson: Te Premier seems to be doing every- istry of Education stands ready to be there for any of the thing he can to avoid the core question. gaps that are created as a result of those interactions. I [2:55 p.m.] encourage people to engage, engage, engage. Here’s the core question. Parents want choice. Tey If that is inadequate for the Leader of the Opposition, I want to have distance learning provided by their bricks- very much regret that. But it’s pretty transparent and pretty and-mortar school. Tey don’t want to be forced to with- straightforward. Go and talk to the principal in the school draw from the school. Parents see the logic. If a batch of your children are enrolled in. See what your needs are, and the kids from that school are learning from home, there we’ll go from there. will be less crowding in the school, less risk of transmis- Tat strikes me as rational. Tat strikes me as appro- sion, easier social distancing, a better learning environ- priate, knowing full well that these plans that are being ment for everybody. developed locally are the foundation of the B.C. Centre of All they’re asking for is an element of parental choice Disease Control advice, not opinion writers in the Van- for a legitimate opportunity to have school-based distance couver Province and not from the Leader of the Oppo- learning. Why can’t you do that? sition. It’s professionals who are dedicating their lives to public health who are putting in place the guidelines that Hon. J. Horgan: Asked and answered. we will operate under. Tose are being implemented school by school, community by community and district A. Wilkinson: Well, it’s ironic that the Premier seems by district. Tat’s the plan. to think this is a courtroom and he’s under cross-examin- ation. Tat’s not how this works, Premier. Te public are A. Wilkinson: Well, it’s unfortunate that I have to expecting answers from you. read out the quote from Bonnie Henry for the third time Why can’t they have parental choice? You say that you’ve so that the Premier will hopefully realize that he has answered the question. You did it by insulting me. Is par- responsibility for this. Tere’s no referring the respons- ental choice not possible in our school system so that at ibility to anyone else. a bricks-and-mortar school, parents could have distance He’s just told the parents of 640,000 students to go and learning or in-class learning to provide safer schools and see the principal. Is the principal there on August 14? Te easier social distancing? What’s the answer, Premier? Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12467 schools aren’t even opening until September 8. Te teach- funding in the capital budget, we’d have a diferent out- ers are showing up for the frst time on September 8. come. I agree with the member. We’re working as hard as Why can’t this Premier answer the simple question of we can to build new spaces, but the defcit was so great that why there isn’t parental choice to allow for some distance it’s taking some time. And of course, it’s even more com- learning from a bricks-and-mortar school without forcing plicated now because we’re abiding by the duly signed con- the student to withdraw from that school? Simple ques- tracts between the province of British Columbia and the tion. B.C. Teachers Federation, and we have 4,200 more teach- ers in those classrooms, and that’s how we’re going to make Hon. J. Horgan: Hon. Chair, 56 publicly funded dis- all of this work. tance learning institutions across the province, schools Again, either the Leader of the Ofcial Opposition ready to deliver these services. Again, I appreciate…. wants everyone in class fve days a week, as he said to the [3:00 p.m.] chamber of commerce, or he wants something else. Tat’s I’m surprised, though, that the Leader of the Opposition his choice. He can work that out with his family. What I’m believes that somehow, from my perch here in the Legis- saying to families across British Columbia: this is a time of lature, I can determine what’s in the best interest of famil- high anxiety. I absolutely understand that. ies in Fort St. John, families in Kamloops and families in We are taking every step we can to make sure that you Surrey when you have duly elected trustees, superintend- have local options in your community, wherever that ents, administrators, teachers and support staf all focused might be, to meet the needs of your children, your family. on delivering the best quality education they can in a safe Tat’s our commitment, and we’ll keep with it. environment. Wouldn’t that be the best place for parents to go and fnd A. Wilkinson: Let me summarize the Premier’s answer. out what’s in their interest and what they can get from the If you’re concerned about your children going back to district that they live in? I seem to think it is. school, go and join the other 600,000 people asking the I don’t understand. I appreciate that the member is local principal, if you can fnd that principal. If you don’t going to get up one more time and ask me why I don’t have like the option of bricks-and-mortar school — that is, wisdom from on high to impart to him today, the same fel- attending in person — you have no choice. Tere’s no dis- low who said to the chamber of commerce that he wanted tance learning from the bricks-and-mortar school. Tere- to see everybody back in class fve days a week. Tat was fore, you’ll have to withdraw from that school and either his answer when he was talking to a business audience. take up home-schooling or line up with tens of thousands When he’s trying to pander to people today, rather than of other parents and try to sign on for independent dis- work with people to reduce fear and anxiety and fnd a way tance learning. that we can bring our school system back on to the extent Do I have that right, Premier? that we can and deliver quality education for the people of British Columbia…. Hon. J. Horgan: I rather doubt you have it right, Tat’s what we want to do. I thought that’s what the because I don’t think you want to hear what I’m saying, majority of people on the other side wanted to do. I really Member. I don’t think you want to hear what I’m saying. did. I think if they were being honest with themselves, I’m saying that everyone is diferent. Tere are many fam- hon. Speaker, they would agree with me. ilies who are saying: “I’m excited about going back to Yeah. Tese are complicated times — 600,000 people all school.” Te excitement on the faces of young ones when trying to fgure out what they’re going to do in September. they go into a classroom and they see their friend or the Every year, that’s a challenge. District enrolment changes. teacher that they wanted to have from the year before — People move into a community. Tey don’t know what’s that’s a special time in someone’s life. Tat’s an extraordin- going to go on. Tey engage with local authorities to try ary time. And the…. and fgure it out. We put in place a framework and the resources to make Interjection. sure that PPE is available, that our schools are as clean as they can possibly be. We’re following the Centre for Dis- Hon. J. Horgan: Sorry? I didn’t know you were going to ease Control — here in British Columbia — guidelines ask questions. to make sure that can happen. Now the real answer is…. What? Go ahead. Interjection.

Interjection. Hon. J. Horgan: Well, he doesn’t want to hear what I’m saying. Te member doesn’t want to hear what I’m say- Hon. J. Horgan: Oh, now it’s about a lack of construc- ing. I’ve said that a whole bunch of people are happy with tion over the past 16 years under the B.C. Liberals. If we what’s going on. didn’t have so many portables in Surrey because of under- 12468 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

Te Chair: Members, come to order, please. dren and care about you and care about your community will work with you to fnd that result. Hon. J. Horgan: Tey’re going to have their kids show up. I could read of more if you want to hear…. Maybe A. Wilkinson: Afer that screed we can say that I think that’s the solution, hon. Chair. Te Leader of the Opposi- the choice is summarized for parents. Here’s the choice. tion only has education questions for the Premier on a day Te Premier, I’m sure, will tell me if I’ve misunderstood afer they had 20 hours of discussion with the Minister of or don’t get it quite right. Te choice is between going to Education, so I’ll…. the local bricks-and-mortar school as usual, with no abil- ity for distance learning, or withdrawing from that school Interjections. for either home-schooling or joining the lineup for inde- pendent distance learning. Correct? Hon. J. Horgan: Yeah, yeah, okay, sure. You didn’t get answers. Tat’s right. Here you go. Hon. J. Horgan: No, you’re not correct. You’re not cor- Ida, a parent of seven, in the Vancouver Sun on July 30, a rect. Just next week the Vancouver school district will be Burnaby parent: “I’m feeling…confdent with Dr. Henry’s rolling out their plan for their community, worked on with decision because I developed some confdence with her the teachers and the parents and the support staf in that over the past few months in her ability to keep us safe. So I community. Tat will have a mix and a hybrid. Tat will feel good about it. I think the biggest thing for us parents is happen in other jurisdictions across the province. to kind of accept that our normal is not going to be static; We need to know what the need is. Tat’s why parents it’s going to be changing.” are so critically important in this exercise. Tey need to [3:05 p.m.] engage with the people providing the services for their Tank goodness. A mother of seven brings wisdom to families. this debate, fnally, at three o’clock on a Friday afernoon in August, someone who says: “I have confdence that the A. Wilkinson: Well, I think we can probably leave it public health ofcials, the B.C. Centre for Disease Control, that the Premier has told us that every concerned parent the trustees that I had the confdence to elect at the last should just go and join the lineup at the principal’s ofce to election who run our school system, are going to be able try to fnd out how it’s going to work. And if they don’t like to deliver a safe environment for my seven children.” Take it, they’ll have to withdraw from the school and try home- that of the 600,000 that are running for the door, Member, schooling or join the lineup for IDL. and let’s start from there. Tis is a sad commentary in what we look for from Let’s talk about another parent from Cariboo. Tis is a the Premier in terms of leadership in a time of crisis. Te superintendent. I don’t want to name that person because Premier hasn’t got a clue what the unemployment rate is. there might be ramifcations. I’ll leave that of. I’ll go to Te Premier doesn’t know what’s happening in schools another parent. “It’s not good for kids to be away from in four weeks. And now we have the concept of the Pre- their friends and out of the classroom so long.” Tat’s in mier, in about three hours, getting into a 3,000-kilogram the Globe and Mail — David Fallon of Vancouver, a parent. black armoured SUV with blackened-out windows, and Tere are more. Tere are lots and lots of families that he’ll drive through north Victoria, where he is protected are excited about what’s ahead. Tere are lots of families from what’s going on there. that are anxious. We’re trying to reduce that anxiety. Te Let me give the Premier a few quotes of what’s going opposition is trying to elevate it. Why they’re motivated to on there. Tis is from Les Leyne, well-known columnist at do that is a mystery to me. Why they’re not adopting the the Victoria Times Colonist: “Homeless Addicts Are Over- position that British Columbians supported a few months whelming NDP’s Solutions.” ago, all of us putting aside our partisan diferences and “By a number of measures, the NDP’s approach is not working. focusing on the people that matter in this instance…. Despite a steady blizzard of announcements and news releases Young people, parents right across B.C. — that’s what we about all the expensive new eforts underway, there is scant evid- ence that they’re making much progress. Despite pouring millions should be focusing on. But instead, we get insults, we get of dollars into new housing — in a controversial, heavy-handed rhetoric, we get hyperbole. What we need to do…. fashion when it comes to Victoria — it’s the same perennial conver- sation and anxiety it has been for years. It is spreading across B.C. Interjection. to the point where virtually every community is grappling with it.” [3:10 p.m.] Hon. J. Horgan: Te plan is pretty simple. Man, I don’t Tere are estimated, by the social minister, to be 40 know how obtuse you have to be, but the member for homelessness camps around B.C. “But four-year govern- Kamloops–North Tompson seems to top the charts day ments coming up with ten-year plans is just as silly as afer day. Go to your school. Find out what’s in your best a three-year-old government blaming its failures on its interest. Te professionals there that care about your chil- predecessors.” Let me repeat that. “Four-year governments coming up Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12469 with ten-year plans is just as silly as a three-year-old NDP Victoria, Paul’s Motor Inn — assessed value, $8.8 mil- government blaming its failures on its predecessors.” lion; purchase price, $15 million. Victoria, Comfort Inn Te NDP, in opposition, knew how intractable addic- — assessed value, $14.2 million; purchase price, $18.5 tion and homelessness issues were, but they lef the million. impression it would all be easy to take care of once their In other words, the NDP, in their valiant efort, have commitment was to make things right. Tat impression paid $41 million more than the assessed value to create looks, now, entirely erroneous. zones of utter misery for the residents, for the community, Tis, Premier, is in your backyard, statements from for the businesses around them and for visitors who are some of the people you drive by every day with the police now reluctant to enter those communities. ofcers taking care of you. From the vantage point of your SUV, Premier, can you Mr. Dodd, owner of Dodd’s Furniture: “We’ve got big tell us how you let this happen? sympathy, and we do a lot for the homeless, but the B.C. government is not doing anything. Te system has all Hon. J. Horgan: I would seek a recess for a health failed, and we want to give a message to the B.C. govern- break. I’ll be back to answer the question at the earliest ment to do something.” opportunity. Jolanda, owner of Java Jo’s: “I’ve been threatened a few times in the past month…. I want my oldest son, who is Te Chair: Tank you, Members. We’ll take a recess for 16, to be able to work here in the summer, and I don’t feel approximately ten minutes or less. safe enough for him to come in.” Byron Loucks, owner of West Coast Appliances: “I now Te committee recessed from 3:14 p.m. to 3:26 p.m. have to confront intoxicated, screaming individuals daily as a way to keep our parking lot clear and our customers [S. Gibson in the chair.] safe. My entire life is tied to this business. I now fear that because of our location we may be forced to close for good. Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for raising what We didn’t bring the problem to the area. Why should we be is a very, very difcult issue for communities right across the ones forced to sufer for the government’s decisions?” British Columbia, not just in our urban centres but in rural It’s not just Victoria. Yaletown, the owner of Downtown B.C. as well. Florist: “Te complete atmosphere of my business and its I appreciate that the challenges of homelessness, the surroundings has changed since homeless encampments challenges of mental health and addictions, did not arrive have taken up space in the Howard Johnson Hotel. Te today. Tey did not arrive ten years ago or 20 years ago or homelessness problem has worsened from this completely 30 years ago. Tey’ve been with us forever — for a long, unprofessional and irresponsible decision.” long time. All governments have done their level best, I Te owner of Roxy Burger down the street: “What is believe, at all orders — federal, provincial and municip- happening now is not only scary and depressing but it al — to put in place a framework that can address these comes at a time when our businesses are struggling more issues as they emerge. than ever. People deserve better from our elected of- I do have to say — and I appreciate that the member cials.” might take issue with this — that during the pandemic, Tis is the upshot of three years of the NDP homeless- we’ve seen temporary shelters either curtailed or closed ness plan. What we heard 2½ years ago was that there’d altogether, which has put more pressure on social hous- be a new approach. I read from the document TogetherBC: ing, which we have built in signifcant amounts in the British Columbia’s Poverty Reduction Strategy: “Prevention. three years that we’ve been in government. But the prob- Make homelessness rare by preventing people from lem persists. becoming homeless and by helping people who are at risk We had a cross-ministry approach to this some weeks of homelessness. Immediate response. If someone ago, involving Social Development and Poverty Reduc- becomes homeless, actions should be taken to make the tion, Mental Health and Addictions, Municipal Afairs and experience brief to reduce harm and help prevent chronic Housing, Public Safety all coming together to put in place homelessness.” a plan that would address the comprehensive challenges Tis complete debacle was well underway before COV- that we have when it comes to homelessness, addictions, ID came along. Let’s look at the NDP’s plan for how to deal mental health, and so on. Poverty is the root of the chal- with it. lenge, and we need to lif people up. Tat’s why we’re focus- Howard Johnson Hotel, Vancouver — assessed value, ing on building an economy that includes everyone, lifs $38.7 million; purchase price, $55 million. Vancouver, all of us up and spreads around the wealth and the benefts Buchan Hotel — assessed value, $11.2 million; purchase of being in British Columbia. price, $19.4 million. Te American Hotel in Vancouver — In Oppenheimer Park, down Pandora Avenue here in assessed value, $11.3 million; purchase price, $17.9 mil- Victoria and in Topaz Park we were able to house 600 lion. 12470 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 people in a very short period of time, and that did not league Leonard Krog, who’s now mayor of Nanaimo, has address the problem completely. pointed out that this situation is stretching the limits of Te challenges of policing…. I see at least one mem- community tolerance. ber of the committee that’s been struck by this House to All across British Columbia, the current approach is look at the Police Act so that we can better inform and clearly not working. Buy a motel. Install people. Tey assist law enforcement in doing their work by determin- live as they see ft and struggle. Tere are localized ing what other elements of their work should better be increases in crime. Tere are localized increases in prop- done by others, whether it be social workers to deal with erty damage. No one is getting healthier. Residents are mental health, whether it be frst responders that can threatened, subjected to endless property crime. And better address addictions and overdoses, whether it be there’s no pathway of drugs. So I think the obvious any number of other service delivery mechanisms that query is: is it time for the Premier to go and meet with are available to municipalities, to the province, to the these merchants and residents in the north end of Vic- federal government. I think that will take us a long way toria and hear their stories personally? toward success so that law enforcement does have a clear direction of what their responsibility is, what their role Hon. J. Horgan: Te Leader of the Opposition men- is in addressing these issues. tioned Gordy Dodd, who I’ve known for many, many years Te member knows full well — the Leader of the and have extraordinary respect for not just as entrepreneur Opposition does; I know many of his colleagues do — but as a philanthropist and a social activist — a fne human that these are complex issues, addictions particularly. being and one that I know many members of this House Complex issues. have personal relationships with. [3:30 p.m.] I do believe that given the ability to leave this place, We’ve recently reached out to the federal government I will be doing more and more outreach to communities and urged them to decriminalize possession of small across British Columbia. I’m very much interested in going amounts of opioids so that we do not criminalize people to Kamloops, for example, where the member for Kam- but, instead, fnd ways to give them the supports that they loops–South Tompson has raised in question period a need. We are working hard on increasing the numbers of number of issues that are not familiar to me on a personal supports, and it seems every day to be inadequate. We con- level, and I very much want to take him up on that and vis- tinue to try and reassess and redeploy resources. it his community. Te Minister of Mental Health and Addictions added Te challenges…. Again, I’m grateful for the tone here, some 170 new treatment beds over the past number of because this is extraordinarily difcult for those aficted weeks, and we’re still going to be playing catch-up all the and those that are feeling aficted because of the moves while. Communities where we see temporary housing are that we’ve made to get people of the streets and into hous- very concerned. I’ve heard those concerns. Te member ing. Despite that, we see neighbourhoods like Strathcona can be assured of that. But I look at successes that are still in Vancouver, Beacon Hill Park here in Victoria — two in progress in Nanaimo, on the Whalley strip, in Maple that come easiest to mind for many of us here…. Again, Ridge, where we have had breakthroughs. But we have referring back to Kamloops, and my friend from Stikine more work to do. We’re going to continue to do that. talks about the challenges in Smithers all the time and has We’re going to continue to focus on working with our for many, many years, so it’s not an urban issue. It is a partners, whether they be federal, provincial, not-for- problem across the board. proft — again, critically important during a pandemic. During a pandemic, with high unemployment, as we Tose volunteers that not-for-profts depend on are ofen- talked about earlier on, these problems are compounded. I times seniors, ofen very vulnerable within the pandemic believe that the way forward is to ensure that we’re getting environment we’re living in. Tey’re not able to be the right people to give the right services. deployed as volunteers, as they have for many, many years, Public safety — fundamental. We need to make sure most of them, because of the situation we fnd ourselves that we don’t have lawless zones in our cities and in in. Now, I appreciate we’ve done a lot, and we’ll be going our communities. I’m very, very committed to that, as through that over the next couple of hours, and I know is the Minister of Public Safety. We also need to make that we’ve got much more to do. sure that we have the resources in place. I’ve heard many members on the opposition side over the past number [R. Chouhan in the chair.] of months raising their desire to see increased budgets for many of the programs that we’ve been delivering over A. Wilkinson: Te concern, I think, is growing across the past number of months. I know that the Minister of British Columbia, and the Premier himself has said this Finance will take that advice and will look at re-estab- is not just a problem in our urban centres. We fnd it in lishing and refocusing those dollars to meet the needs in places as small as Grand Forks, Duncan, Nanaimo, Kam- communities. loops and Prince George. And of course, our former col- [3:35 p.m.] Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12471

In question period, we talked a lot about wraparound opportunity to talk about these issues. I do disagree with services. I think we need to have a clear defnition for all the member’s premise that there is no success. I just got a of us, at least, of what that means. And having someone note from the Minister of Housing. In her community in available all the time to make sure we can get access to Coquitlam, fully half of those that have been put in tem- the health care provider that’s needed for the individual or porary housing have begun treatment programs. cluster of individuals is critically important. Tat means As a physician and a learned scholar, the Leader of the making sure that we are putting those individuals in place Opposition will know that moments of clarity need to so that we can deliver the services to the individuals in be grasped and are better grasped in a collective setting question. than in isolation. So when those moments of clarity come I want to go back, again, to the question of addictions, for people with addictions, you need to be able to seize the question of stigmatizing those who have mental health upon those and, most importantly, you need to have the and addiction issues. I would love to hear the opposition resources to back that up. Tat’s government’s responsibil- support our call to the federal government to decriminal- ity, and we’re going to continue to do what we can. We’ve ize small amounts of opioids for personal use so that we had counsel from the other side to do so. Tat makes it a can stop the stigma and start working on being patients. bit easier to increase resources, to make sure we have the Perhaps the Leader of the Opposition will support us in services in place to help people. that today. We need to also acknowledge that the whole continuum of housing is required. I know members on the other A. Wilkinson: Will the Premier and his executive coun- side…. Te member for Langley East spent his career on cil put a moratorium on the purchase of motels, which this side of the House dealing with housing issues. He has become such a cause of community disruption and knows the complexity. He knows that circumstances destruction and leads to no improvement of the standard change and are fuid in markets as well as in the number of living for the residents? of people that are without housing. And not to have those temporary spaces, as we do during the pandemic, has cre- Hon. J. Horgan: Well, I think it’s a sweeping statement ated a much bigger problem for us to see, but also a much to say that there’s no improvement for anyone. Quite the bigger problem for us to address. contrary. I know the Minister of Housing has quite a com- Again, I just…. I do believe that giving people that hand pendium of individuals whose lives have been trans- up is so fundamental. If we’re going to be serious about formed by getting out of a bad situation and getting into a destigmatizing for our brothers and our sisters and our better one. parents and our relatives who are struggling with addic- Tat doesn’t work for everybody. I freely admit that. tions, or who, for no fault of their own, fnd themselves But I think a blanket statement that the programs and with economic circumstances that have them on the policies of the government are universally unsuccessful is streets…. Tose people, we know full well…. Tose that not accurate. are friends and relatives and acquaintances, we know that Do we need to reassess at all times the progress we’re at their core, they’re needing help. We need to be able to making, and are we taking the right steps at the right time fnd that moment to provide that help. with the right people? Of course we’re going to continue Te best way to do that is to continue to focus on getting to do that. But I don’t support the notion of a moratori- better every day at delivering the services that those people um. Rather, I support continued engagement with mayors, need and building the housing, which also has to happen councils, law enforcement, service providers and not-for- with a collective and cooperative approach between those profts and, most importantly, making sure that as we do that do the zoning in cities and those that provide the purchases, we have a plan that is not just about ghettoizing resources at the federal and provincial levels and doing it but is a plan about using that space to build the continuum in a way that meets the needs of people in every part of the of housing that we need in the community. province — rural, urban and otherwise.

A. Wilkinson: Given that the Premier won’t accept the A. Wilkinson: Tis morning on CFAX radio, it was need for a moratorium on these motel purchases and stated that the superintendent of school district No. 61 in warehousing of these people, will the Premier accept that greater Victoria says that they will have to increase safety it’s time to reassess the program? Because no one’s getting measures in school to keep children safe due to increased healthier. Residents are threatened. Tere’s extensive prop- crime due to hotels purchased by the government and erty crime around these facilities, and there is no pathway flled with homeless people that have no support. of drugs when living in one of those facilities. So given that there is now deep and widespread concern [3:40 p.m.] right here in Victoria, less than 2 kilometres from here, will the Premier reassess his Victoria motel purchase plan Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I’m encouraged by the tone of because it’s simply not working the way it should? the discussion we’re having, and I’m grateful to have the [3:45 p.m.] 12472 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

Hon. J. Horgan: For the member’s beneft, I have some that I beseech the Premier to do is, perhaps next week, statistics from B.C. Housing on supportive housing res- on his way home, stop and talk with Jolanda at Java Jo’s. idents afer only six months. Ninety-four percent of res- Go and see Byron Loucks. Sit down in the furniture store idents remain housed in the units afer six months, 84 with Gordy Dodd. Hear them out about how their lives percent of those residents report improvements in overall have been torn apart by what’s happening in the north well-being, and 82 percent of residents report experien- end of Victoria. cing positive interactions with neighbours. Premier, it’s not working, and it needs to be revised. Now, I appreciate that leaves a big chunk that don’t. I [3:50 p.m.] don’t want everyone to go nuts over there. I understand the problem. I do think that we need to separate this out Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member, genuinely, for the and acknowledge that there are those are benefting from tone of this discussion today. I know, over the course of a these programs, and there are those that are taking advant- number of days…. Question period is a heated discussion. age of them or are not fnding that place that allows them We all know that these challenges are not easily fxed. to fnd that clarity of purpose and mind that we were talk- We all know that they didn’t arrive yesterday, and I will not ing about. say they arrived 16 years ago. Tey’ve been with us for a Te numbers are fairly impressive about individuals long time. I do agree that we need to redouble our eforts who are fnding a better place for themselves and a better to solve these problems, keeping in mind all of the unin- launch pad to a better future in the community or some- tended consequences of policy decisions as we go forward. where else. I think the continuum…. I hope, also, that the opposition will work with us. Tis Tis is not new. Tis is not a program that we instituted. is another one of those opportunities where we can say…. It was one that B.C. Housing showed to us upon our I know members, in communities that are not represented arrival. It was being utilized by the former government, by this side of the House, work with their councils and and other governments across North America, as a tool. work with their mayors, fnding ways to secure land that’s In the pandemic, of course, it has been extraordinary. I go appropriate for housing, working with your federal MPs back to those shelter beds that are no longer available and in communities across the province to see the federal gov- other vehicles within the community that ofen have been ernment not just talk about housing, which they’ve been available for those that are living rough. doing. Again, I appeal to the member for Langley East. Now we are where we are. I take the advice from the Te federal government has talked about housing for a Leader of the Opposition in the tone in which he has long, long time, but the cheques have not been sufcient ofered it. to meet the demand in communities. We need all orders When I get together with the team, which I’ve talked of government working on this. Members of all parties are about — the Minister of Social Development, the Minister on the review of the Police Act. We need to make sure of Mental Health and Addictions, the Minister of Housing, that public safety professionals are given the tools they the Minister of Public Safety — and we discuss…. Te need to address the circumstances they fnd themselves in, Minister of Skills and Training is on the committee as well. whether it be in a temporary housing environment or in We want, again, to give people opportunity. Of course, encampments or just meeting people upon the street. education is the great equalizer in our society. Give people I’m genuinely pleased with the tone of the conversation the tools to succeed, and the likelihood of that happening here. If we collectively, all 87 of us, can keep this focus goes up exponentially. and legitimately criticize where there are vacuums or holes All of those ministers and their teams are working with in policy, I think we’ll make some progress in the days B.C. Housing and looking at the success we’ve had with and weeks ahead. I don’t think anyone in this House today some of these initiatives and also the challenges. We’ll would say that these problems will be easily addressed, but address those challenges on a daily basis, asking, again, for if we come at it with the tenor and tone of the discussion calm in the community. we’ve just had, I believe there’s some hope that the politic- I know that Mayor Helps, for example, here in Victoria, al noise around what is a societal challenge will be dimin- and her council are working to try and fnd ways forward. ished. Maybe we’ll make even more progress. Sometimes we are on diferent pages. Other times we’re in sync. Tat’s not unusual when you have a problem that A. Wilkinson: On Monday, I came into the ofce, and is as deeply seated as this one, with everyone wanting to there was a package. In the package was a purple T-shirt do the right thing to help those vulnerable people but also and a note that said: “Dear Dr. Wilkinson, MLA. Please respect the rights and liberties of those in the community join us as we remember all those loved and lost for Inter- that were going along blissfully, without any knowledge national Overdose Awareness Day, August 31. Sincerely, of the challenges, or, at least, not having those challenges Moms Stop Te Harm.” Tis is a scourge, Premier. We had made so apparent on a daily basis. all-time-high death rates in May and June of this year. We have to ask if the system is working. Clearly, it’s not. A. Wilkinson: My request, my suggestion, the thing Back in 2018, the current government fled a lawsuit, on Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12473

August 29, on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen in Right of tion of large volumes of prescription medications, in para- the Province of British Columbia against 40 pharmaceut- graph 99: ical companies and drug distribution companies. In that “Te defendants have created or assisted in the creation of an lawsuit on behalf of the Crown — that is, on behalf of your epidemic of addiction in British Columbia and throughout each government — statements were made. and every province and territory. Te actions of the defendants have caused deaths and serious and long-lasting injury to public Paragraph 79: “Prescription opioids are powerful nar- peace, health, order and safety, signifcantly harming the plaintif” cotics…. In addition to pain-controlling efects, opioids — that is, the province of British Columbia — “and impacting its can…induce an addictive, euphoric high.” Paragraph 80: ability to deliver health care to the citizens of British Columbia.” “With continued use, patients grow tolerant to opioids Once again I assume the Premier stands by that state- and require progressively higher doses over time. Tis ment. increases the risk of withdrawal, addiction and over- It of course raises an obvious question. Forty-nine dose.” American states have prescription monitoring programs; I can only presume the Premier agrees with those state- British Columbia does not. British Columbia has had the ments, since it’s his government that made them in the PharmaNet system since 1993, where every flled prescrip- lawsuit. Te lawsuit then goes on to accuse the defendants tion in this province is recorded in a central database that of having induced addiction by providing an undue and is available to clinicians. It has been there for 27 years. excessive amount of narcotics, opioids — whatever you It has never been efectively used to monitor those situ- like to call them — morphine derivatives or synthetic ations where an individual receives medications, some- opioids to the people of British Columbia. times from multiple doctors without other doctors know- In light of that statement and the statement from Dr. ing, and thereby becomes, inadvertently, addicted. It’s cer- Henry, one of the most common misconceptions I hear tainly not a choice. It’s a disease; it’s an addiction. We’ve all the time is that those people choose to use drugs. Tey heard the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions say don’t appreciate that when people have substance use dis- vague things about this, but we’ve never heard any kind of orders and addiction, it’s a chronic, relapsing health con- plan for implementing prescription monitoring. dition. I’m just going to, in the spirit of constructive Will the Premier undertake to do this as soon as pos- approach that we’re trying to take at the moment, ask the sible, in keeping with the lawsuit, to tell those mothers Premier to stand and withdraw his remarks that addiction who sent us the T-shirts on Monday that we’re going is a choice. to actually do something about this, to save their chil- [3:55 p.m.] dren from a destructive disease that is sometimes, and not infrequently, brought on by prescription drugs at the Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member. I did that the day outset? afer the press conference. I do want to, however, put it into [4:00 p.m.] context. Te line of questioning was comparing opioid deaths to a pandemic. In a ham-fsted way, I tried to make Hon. J. Horgan: I would say that the member is correct. the distinction between droplets and opioids. Te summa- We have had the ability to monitor and manage the pre- tion in the legal brief, I think, is fairly consistent. It’s cer- scription of opioids for some time in British Columbia, tainly something I support. I retracted the statement the and I’m pleased to say that we started with a contract, in next day, and I do so again today. January of 2019, with the College of Physicians and Sur- We cannot stigmatize those who fnd themselves — geons to develop a comprehensive prescription monitor- through no fault of their own, through traumas that we ing program. Tat involves, of course, everyone buying cannot understand and imagine — to be addicted. Wheth- into the initiative, as the member would know. er it be from a prescription, from a party or from whatever We’ve learned from the experience through PharmaNet. circumstance the individual has found themselves in, they We’re working with the College of Pharmacists as well as should not be blamed for that. Tey should be helped for nursing professionals, the College of Dental Surgeons, the that. If that assists the member, I hope it does. College of Naturopathic Physicians, the College of Mid- wives and the Coroners Service to bring everybody togeth- A. Wilkinson: I assume that that retraction, just short er so that the agreement that we signed in January of 2019 of an apology, applies to the families who sent us the T- can be efective in reducing prescriptions. I will say that shirts this Monday. Sadly, there are 3,917 people who have according to the Canadian health institute, the propor- died, under this government’s watch, of drug overdoses. tion of people prescribed opioids in B.C. has been declin- It’s not causally related to having been elected, but non- ing; 13.6 percent in 2016, 12.3 percent in 2018 is the most etheless, we have to mourn jointly and respect the families recent data that I have. and what they’re going through. I appreciate it’s just short Discussing the litigation that we brought to the produ- of a apology, but a retraction, I suppose, will do. cers of opioids, also another one of the tools that we have Te next question, of course, arises from that same law- in our toolbox to address this challenge…. One death is suit, where there are the allegations made about distribu- 12474 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 too many. Te unacceptable increase during the pandem- A. Wilkinson: In keeping with that goal, we are all ic has been explained as a result of the already toxic drug aware that Alberta recently announced that they’d be put- supply being cut further with even more poisons to stretch ting $180 million per year into recovery programs to get it out because of restrictions at the borders. Lack of travel people of drugs. Tat’s about $45 for every single person has reduced the supply, which has created an even more in Alberta. We all note that the Ministry of Mental Health toxic supply. and Addictions in British Columbia is the smallest of all Which brings me back, I think, to my suggestion to the the ministries, with a budget of $4 per person. federal government. We already…. Te Minister of Pub- Given that Alberta is dedicating 11 times as much lic Safety, in advice to law enforcement, suggested that as money per capita to this as the British Columbia govern- a province, we would not pursue cases against those who ment, will Alberta provide the cue for this government to had small amounts of opioids in their possession. But it’s a enhance its programs to get people of drugs? Criminal Code issue. It’s a federal question. [4:10 p.m.] I believe that the national association of police chiefs has called on the federal government to take that action. Hon. J. Horgan: I want to just say at the outset that I’ve supported that, and it would be wonderful if we could, I’m PVR’ing the hockey game, so please don’t tell me, any- before we’re done this debate today, agree, at least between body, what the score is. I’d really appreciate that. I’m look- the ofcial opposition…. I see no members currently, in ing forward to that more than anything today, so please real time, from the Green caucus, but I’m fairly confdent don’t wreck that for me. they would support that as well. I do want to say that yesterday’s announcement by [4:05 p.m.] the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions will lead I think it would be a great day to end the session of the to 140 youth beds. Tat’s a $35 million investment. We summer, the pandemic summer of 2020, to have unan- announced a $10.5 million investment for 25 new over- imous support for the federal government to take action dose prevention services which will include more when it comes to decriminalizing, stop the stigma and nurses, social workers, that will connect people to treat- start to do the work that the member was talking about ment. We’re also working on…. Again, keeping in mind earlier. that the end result, of course, would be to see a world where drugs are not part and parcel of people’s lives. But A. Wilkinson: Tere is, I think, a more fundamental I think, until we get to that place, we have to ensure that point that perhaps should be the subject of some agree- we have a safe supply. ment. Will the Premier agree that the ultimate goal is to Tat is something, I know…. I think the member for get people of drugs? Kamloops–South Tompson is going to think that I’m picking on him, but he made some good, solid comments Hon. J. Horgan: Absolutely. I absolutely agree with that. about that not that long ago, a couple days ago. Again, it’s Tat requires more treatment beds. We’ve seen that in an acknowledgment that we are living in an extraordinary the past number of weeks. It requires opportunities, when time that helps us grapple with these questions. those moments of clarity come for those who have opioid On the issue about Alberta’s funding versus B.C.’s addictions, to be sure that we have health care providers funding, the member will know that the vast majority there on the spot to take advantage of those moments of the services in this basket are provided by the Min- before the individuals lapse back. istry of Health, so the dollar numbers are really apples Te prescription monitoring program is part and parcel to oranges. What we do need to do is invest more in the of that. It’s already mandatory at methadone clinics, again, services that people need. Tat involves health care pro- using substitutes. Te member will know full well the vari- viders. Tat involves making sure that we have treatment ous tools available to health ofcials to work with indi- facilities in place. viduals to help them in those moments when help can be Te work of the Foundries that we’ve…. Eight locations, delivered. new Foundries across B.C., for a total of 19 — again pick- I certainly endorse that the best outcome is to have no ing up on initiatives that other governments, previous gov- drugs, but — we’ve talked about naivety today — I think it ernments have put in place. Tat’s the type of work that we would be naive of me to suggest that that’s going to happen need to focus on. overnight. But I do believe that that should be the ultimate I always view public policy as a river. It ebbs, and it goal for all of us: to ensure that opioids are no longer being fows. It goes up and goes down depending on the circum- used — certainly, for medical purposes — and that we can stances. But we have been in a public health emergency, do what we can for those who are using street drugs, that when it comes to opioid addictions, for coming on six or we can do what we can to put in place programs to help seven years, going back to the former Minister of Health. them get of of those drugs and have more productive and To have a global pandemic layered over top of a public focused and happy lives. health emergency, when it comes to opioids, is a challenge that none of us ever would have expected. Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12475

I think the appropriate response for us in this circum- “No guarantees for direct jobs, no direct guarantee for loc- stance is just what we’re seeing today — an exchange of al procurement. Tat strikes me as a failure all around.” ideas and suggestions for how we can collectively work Te Premier, on the next day, in July of 2015: “If West- together to lif up our fellow citizens and protect them, ern Australia can sign a project development agreement those that have addictions, those who have mental health with one of the largest companies in the world that main- issues. Te way to do that is to have more people delivering tains a requirement for local hire, that maintains a require- the services that they need. ment for local procurement…. If another jurisdiction can do that, why can’t British Columbia?” Lo and behold, A. Wilkinson: We understand that so far this calendar there’s no project development agreement in British Col- year roughly 66 youth have died of overdoses in British umbia. Tere’s little or no income tax revenue in British Columbia. Te matter is urgent. Te rumour or under- Columbia because it was traded away. And we now see the standing circulating about yesterday’s announcement is consequences of that. that those 120 beds for youth are actually not current. I On April 3 of 2019, the Premier said: “We’re hoping would encourage the Premier to tell us now when those to see 10,000 jobs in northern British Columbia, the vast beds will be available and on stream, rather than being majority of them going to locals.” Fast-forward to three implemented over the fullness of a fscal year or a term or weeks ago, July 10, 2020. Te Minister of Energy con- some other thing. frmed that so far there are 1,500 people working, and We need to know the answer now, Premier. about 50 percent of those are from British Columbia. [4:15 p.m.] Now, what we get from the communities themselves is a more dramatic story. We hear that B.C. businesses Hon. J. Horgan: I can say — through technology, I just have been successful in 36 percent of contracts this year, had the minister who made the announcement yesterday 38 percent in the year before, and 30 percent the year give us some clarity — that it is two waves, as the member before that. Tere was an open letter sent to the Premier by suggested. people from Terrace representing a collection of compan- Tere are 30 this year. Tose are beds that the health ies, including Terrace Steel Works, Big River Distributors, authorities would contract that are unfunded at the Coast Mountain Wireless, Kristof transport, Bear Creek moment. So we’re hoping those will move very, very Contracting and North Coast Equipment, and it comes quickly — beds that exist that are not resourced through along with horror stories like deals being entered into and public means. then falling apart, and equipment being returned and not Te remainder we want to fast-track, again, through being used and the local contractors being literally lef by those health authorities, making the determinations on the side of the road. who the providers will be and where those beds will Te query, of course, is…. If we have the largest indus- be located. But 30 for sure this fscal, and I would sug- trial project in British Columbia history, there’s not much gest…. I just gave direction that the remaining 90 should income tax revenue from it, and there’s a lot less procure- be going out as quickly as health authorities can fnd the ment than expected, and there’s not much hiring going on. providers. How is British Columbia benefting out of the $41 billion? I think perhaps the most graphic example came to me A. Wilkinson: I appreciate the complexity of a large the other day in a series of photographs. Tis is what’s organization like government. But I think it’s also indicat- going up the nose of the people in Terrace this week. It’s ive that we have to keep an eye on these announcements to that fuel trucks are showing up with Alberta licence plates make sure that they actually have substance. from a company called AFD, Alberta Fuel Distributors, Tat’s not a personal criticism in any way, Premier. It’s a of 78 Avenue NW in Edmonton. Tese are 10,000-gallon, concern that we hear simplifed summaries — whether it double-tanker trailers — 45,000 litres of fuel. Te local be federal, provincial or otherwise — that turn out to be people have sent photographs of them driving through sorely lacking in actual boots on the ground in delivery of Terrace with Alberta licence plates on. services. I suppose, on behalf of the opposition, I would Of course, the concern is that Alberta fuel is being emphasize the urgency. trucked in. Tere’s no PST being paid on any of this. Is Now on another topic entirely, I’ll take the Premier there any motor fuel tax being paid? Is the price the issue, back to 2015 with respect to LNG and, of course, the because it’s 40 cents cheaper in Edmonton than it is in Ter- large announcement on October 3, 2018, when the Pre- race? Clearly, the driver’s not from British Columbia. Te mier and the Prime Minister were kind enough to invite income tax will remit to Alberta. Te corporate tax will me to attend the gathering where the largest industrial remit to Alberta. Tis is a fag, like a red fag to a bull, as we project in Canadian history was announced at a hotel in watch a double tractor-trailer pull into the hotel in Terrace, Vancouver. and the working people of Terrace say: “What on earth is [4:20 p.m.] going on here?” A few years before, in opposition, the Premier had said: I think, Premier, it’s important to answer that question 12476 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 for the people of Terrace and the northwest because the have this kind of feedback with answers, real answers to people of the northeast Peace country have been observing real questions. this for many years, and now it seems to be making its way I’m heartened that the Premier has undertaken to to the northwest. answer in writing what the situation is with the Terrace Te query, obviously, is: can inquiries be made as to a contractors and the fuel supply. I would encourage him, whole series of questions? Is the fuel being trucked in from his government, and their infuence on the proponents to Alberta? Is British Columbia tax being paid on that fuel do a much better job of communicating the state of pro- from Alberta? Where is the tax revenue being remitted? It’s curement and employment along Highway 16 and all the being rubbed in the face of the people of Terrace. way up into the Peace country. Because it is a very sore Te second series of questions is: how did we go so far point to see British Columbia’s single largest fuel resource, of the rails that this $41 billion project is fowing money which is only one-time use, going out the door without into the pockets of people outside of British Columbia at a suitable levels of beneft to British Columbia. furious rate and the local people are lef with no work? [4:30 p.m.] [4:25 p.m.] [S. Gibson in the chair.] Hon. J. Horgan: With respect to the fuel issue, I don’t have that information, but I will commit to investigating On the opioids issues, I’m glad to hear that the Premier that quickly and getting back to the member in writing has put his pressure on his ofcials to say that it is critically next week. important that these youth beds be delivered, developed With respect to employment targets, I am advised…. and functioning as soon as humanly possible. Tis is an Tese would have been canvassed under the Minister of overwhelming crisis. In terms of mortality and ruined Energy estimates, so I’m reading materials that may well lives, it’s well ahead of the COVID pandemic in this have already been read into the record. Of the total work- province, and it is incumbent on all of us to do whatever force of 2,600, fully 52 percent of those are British Col- we can to stem the tide. umbians — 24 percent local of that 52, 10 percent Indi- Te same is true of the prescription monitoring pro- genous, 15 percent women. On the CGL component, the gram. Te Premier wrote out a memo that’s 20 months old. pipeline component, 78 percent British Columbians, 50 I don’t mean to create any kind of moral burden on the percent local workers, mostly Indigenous. Premier, but 20 months is a long time, and 2,000 people Tere are also a host of training initiatives that have have died in that time. It’s time to put a high priority on fowed from the project. Currently at LNG Canada, there these issues, get them functioning and save some lives of are 1,300 workers on site. Tey anticipate that would be British Columbians. going up through the summer as weather permits, as I’m most heartened to hear, perhaps of all, on this health requirements on site permit. So I do appreciate the issue, that the Premier agrees with me — that our concern. I would share that, of seeing massive amounts highest and best purpose in this world, as legislators on of fuel being brought into British Columbia from Alberta. this issue, is to get people of drugs. I’m heartened to Tat was certainly not part of any bargain that we worked hear that. It means that there is hope for people to lead a on during the negotiations to sharpen our pencils to bring better life downstream. the numbers to a place that would be competitive in a On the homelessness issue. We did not hear any partic- world market for an LNG facility to be constructed in ular clarity about a change in plans. I think I understand British Columbia. I will follow up with the company with the Premier is going to take the time to visit Dodd’s Fur- respect to that. niture and Java Jo’s and West Coast Appliance and feel the In terms of other local procurement opportunities, this pressure those people are under, feel the misery that has is a massive project that is just getting underway. Obvi- been inficted upon them, sadly and, again, without mor- ously, full speed ahead was compromised by challenges al turpitude, by government policy — with a period right within the pipeline corridor — we may get into that in afer “government policy.” the time available — as well as the pandemic. But it’s my Tey are not forgiving. Tey are distressed to fnd that expectation — and we have commitments from LNG their role in this society has been so diminished by the Canada — that the jobs, the apprenticeship opportunities actions of their own government. and the diversity of the workplace will be consistent with On schools. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about beneft agreements that are in place, project labour agree- the adequacy of the Premier’s answers. What happened ments that were in place at the beginning of the project. here today was not forthright. It was evasive. We are seeing already that parents are taking to social A. Wilkinson: Well, as we approach the end of the day media to express their dissatisfaction with the Premier’s in the fnal day of the session in this most unusual summer approach. Parents are crying out for clarity. Tey’re crying session, this is why we’re here — to have the level of dis- out for options. Tey want the choice of being able to closure that makes our democracy work. It’s important to do distance learning from their own bricks-and-mortar Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12477 school, rather than being ejected from that school if they it feels like to live in a catastrophe that kills people the way don’t subscribe to the plan that’s currently in place. COVID has been killing people and ruining lives. Internet distance learning is simply not an option for We all hope that the count, which I gather went up by 640,000 students — to leave their schools and sign up for 86 today, does indeed plateau and decline, because if it it. Te Premier knows that. It’s time to rise to the occasion doesn’t, we are all in serious trouble. We’ll have to contin- and get each and every school engaged in distance learn- ue to put our shoulder to the wheel as legislators to make ing. It’s urgent. British Columbia a better place for everyone. Tat’s what Once again, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about we do. Tat’s why we’re here. the adequacy of the Premier’s approach to UNDRIP in I thank you all for your time. light of the IPPs and the heartfelt concern expressed by a number of First Nations that they have been betrayed. Hon. J. Horgan: I want to thank the Leader of the On the issue of condominium insurance. We’ve heard Opposition for our engagement today. Tere were times the Premier’s sympathy, but sympathy doesn’t pay the bills. when I wasn’t sure where we were going. Tat’s kind of Sympathy doesn’t alleviate the worries of those fxed- consistent with how this year has unfolded for all of us. income seniors who have seen an 1,100 percent increase in I do want to acknowledge the tone with which we their condo insurance. Sympathy doesn’t help them set up address some of the more challenging issues in the lives of a self-insured or mutual insurance organization. Tey’re our fellow British Columbians, whether it be our response going to need the eforts of government to make that hap- to COVID, whether it be our response to the opioid health pen. crisis or whether it be dealing with the most important I’d encourage the Premier to put a lot more than sym- element in the lives of young people — getting back into pathy into the plight of 1½ million people living in the classrooms. Lower Mainland and probably another half million Agreeing to disagree is a fundamental foundation of around the rest of the province. our democratic processes here in British Columbia and in It’s, perhaps, surprising — or shall I say disappointing Canada. We are among the most fortunate people in the but not surprising — to hear the Premier say, in the middle world to have the beneft of institutions like this, where we of this economic meltdown, that he’s not prepared to can engage back and forth with diferent ideas and difer- entertain the idea of reductions in either the corporate or ent perspectives on the challenges of our time. personal income tax to stimulate this economy. It’s abund- I don’t miss a day that I’m not grateful for the oppor- antly clear that British Columbia is not competitive on the tunity to sit in this place as a member of the Legislature national stage. We are in a real pickle in terms of our tax representing the people of Langford–Juan de Fuca and, for policy. With 23 new or increased taxes under this govern- the past three years, having the extraordinary privilege of ment in the last three years, that is not going in the right being the Premier of British Columbia. direction for any kind of a revival of this economy. Ofen, when I go home, my wife, Ellie, asks me how We all look forward to a plan that will bring British Col- my day was, and I say it was a fantastic day. She’ll say: umbia back to life. We all look forward to the excitement “Oh, what happened?” And I’ll say: “Well, I got pounded of saying that British Columbia is back on track. It’s well on this. I got pounded on that. I got pounded on some- of track now, and what we heard from the Premier this thing else.” She goes: “Well, how could that possibly be a morning is that there’s no particular date for his recovery great day?” plan. Tere’s no particular plan in place. Te people who It’s a great day because we are Canadians. It’s a great are involved in it have started to mutiny and are sending day, because even though we disagree on fner points, we out their own plans because they’re fed up with waiting. all come together at the end of the day. We did so pro- Tat needs to be improved dramatically, and I think every foundly back in March and April and May, in June, and member of the executive council knows that. a little bit today. [4:35 p.m.] We came together, put aside our diferences and focused Lastly, I must say it was disappointing to stand here on the people of British Columbia, who depend on us to opposite the Premier, who couldn’t make head or tail of provide leadership on a range of issues that were well can- the fact that he’d spent $668 million of public money on vassed today, whether it be UNDRIP,education, homeless- people who are unemployed but didn’t know how many ness or opioids — any number of the challenges. And there there were or when they were unemployed. are many, many more. If we had more hours, I know the But this is what we do. Tis is the role of the Legislature Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues would have — to expose the frailties of a government plan and to brought more issues to bear. improve it. We look forward to seeing these plans I’m grateful for the opportunity to stand and defend, improved in this time of extraordinary crisis here in Brit- to the extent I can, and to work with my colleagues in ish Columbia. the public service to deliver as much of the quality pro- None of us lived through a war with conscription. None gramming that British Columbians have come to expect of us lived through the Depression. None of us know what over many, many decades in this fne institution, which 12478 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020 as we all know, has seen its ups and downs over the past Vote 3: Confict of Interest Commissioner, $734,000 — couple of years — again, circumstances none of us would approved. have expected. A minority parliament that has worked for three years is unprecedented in my memory, and I’ve got a Vote 4: Elections B.C., $18,801,000 — approved. couple of degrees in history, so my memory stretches back beyond my time on the planet. Vote 5: Human Rights Commissioner, $5,500,000 — All of us should commend each other for that work approved. — Liberals, New Democrats, Greens. All of us should focus on what we’ve been able to accomplish through Vote 6: Information and Privacy Commissioner, heated debate, through sometimes personal attacks. I’d $6,942,000 — approved. like to think that we’ve minimized that in this place, but it’s British Columbia. We have a long history of vicious Vote 7: Merit Commissioner, $1,365,000 — approved. discussion. Today was not one of those days. I believe today was a Vote 8: Ombudsperson, $9,366,000 — approved. positive day for all parties and a positive day for British Columbians. We have our diferences, we raised them, and Vote 9: Police Complaint Commissioner, $4,092,000 — then we carry on from there. approved. Do not tell me the score of the hockey game. Vote 10: Representative for Children and Youth, Vote 11: Ofce of the Premier, $11,334,000 — $10,471,000 — approved. approved. [4:40 p.m.] Hon. M. Farnworth: I move that the committee rise and report resolutions and completion and ask leave to Hon. J. Horgan: I move that the committee rise, report sit again. resolution and completion and ask leave to sit again. Motion approved. Motion approved. Te committee rose at 4:48 p.m. Te committee rose at 4:41 p.m. Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported resolutions, was granted leave to sit again. resolution, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. M. Farnworth: I call for the consideration of the Hon. M. Farnworth: I call Committee of Supply on reports of resolutions from the Committee of Supply. Votes 1 through 10. Supply Motions Committee of Supply REPORTS OF RESOLUTIONS FROM ESTIMATES: COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Hon. C. James: I move: Te House in Committee of Supply (Section B); [Tat the reports of resolutions from the Committees of Supply on S. Gibson in the chair. March 5; June 25, 26; July 9, 10, 16, 17, 23, 24, 30; and August 11, 13, 14 be now received, taken as read and agreed to.] Te committee met at 4:43 p.m. Motion approved. Vote 1: Legislative Assembly, $85,014,000 — approved. [4:50 p.m.] [4:45 p.m.] FUNDS GRANTED FOR PUBLIC SERVICE ESTIMATES: OFFICERS OF THE LEGISLATURE Hon. C. James: I move: [Tat there be granted to Her Majesty, from and out of the Con- solidated Revenue Fund, the sum of 55 billion, 220 million, 431 Vote 2: Auditor General, $18,575,000 — approved. thousand dollars towards defraying the charges and expenses of Friday, August 14, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12479

the public service of the province for the fscal year ending March ordered to proceed to a Committee of the Whole House 31, 2021. Tis sum includes that authorized to be paid under sec- for consideration forthwith. tion 1 of the Supply Act (No. 2), 2020.]

Motion approved. Committee of the Whole House

Introduction and BILL 25 — SUPPLY ACT, 2020–2021 First Reading of Bills Te House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on BILL 25 — SUPPLY ACT, 2020–2021 Bill 25; S. Gibson in the chair.

Hon. C. James presented a message from Her Honour Te committee met at 4:56 p.m. the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Supply Act, 2020–2021. Sections 1 and 2 approved.

Hon. C. James: I move that Bill 25 be introduced and Schedule approved. read a frst time now. Tis supply bill is introduced to authorize funding for Preamble approved. the operation of government programs for the ’20-21 fscal year. Te House has already received, taken as read and Title approved. agreed to the reports of resolutions from the Committee of Supply afer consideration of the main estimates. Hon. C. James: I move that the committee rise and In addition, this House is resolved that there be granted, report Bill 25 complete without amendment. from and out of the consolidated revenue fund, the neces- sary funds towards defraying the charges and expenses of Motion approved. the public service of the province for the fscal year ending March 31, 2021. Te committee rose at 4:57 p.m. Hon. Speaker, it is the intention of the government to proceed with all stages of the supply bill this day. Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Mr. Speaker: Te question is frst reading of the bill. Report and Tird Reading of Bills Motion approved. [4:55 p.m.] BILL 25 — SUPPLY ACT, 2020–2021

Mr. Speaker: Members, in keeping with the practice Bill 25, Supply Act, 2020–2021, reported complete of this House, the fnal supply bill will be permitted to without amendment, read a third time and passed. advance through all stages in one sitting. Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, Her Honour the Lieu- Bill 25, Supply Act, 2020–2021, introduced, read a frst tenant-Governor is in the precinct. Please remain seated time and ordered to proceed to second reading forthwith. while we await her arrival.

Second Reading of Bills Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor requested to attend the House, was admitted to the chamber and took BILL 25 — SUPPLY ACT, 2020–2021 her seat on the throne. [5:00 p.m.] Hon. C. James: I move that Bill 25 be read a second time now. Royal Assent to Bills

Motion approved. Clerk of the House: Motor Vehicle Amendment Act, 2020 Hon. C. James: I move that Bill 25 be referred to a Com- Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2020 mittee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith. Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2020 Mines Amendment Act, 2020 Bill 25, Supply Act, 2020–2021, read a second time and Attorney General Statutes (Vehicle Insurance) Amend- ment Act, 2020 Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2020 12480 British Columbia Debates Friday, August 14, 2020

Municipal Afairs and Housing Statutes Amendment thanks to all staf. We could not have done this without Act (No. 2), 2020 you. [Applause.] Economic Stabilization (COVID-19) Act Motor Vehicle Amendment Act (No. 2), 2020 Hon. M. Farnworth: I move that the House, at its rising, Wills, Estates and Succession Amendment Act, 2020 do stand adjourned until it appears to the satisfaction of Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020 the Speaker, afer consultation with the government, that Municipalities Enabling and Validating (No. 4) Amend- the public interest requires that the House shall meet or ment Act, 2020 until the Speaker may be advised by the government that In Her Majesty’s Name, Her Honour the Lieutenant- it is desired to prorogue the ffh session of the 41st par- Governor doth assent to these acts. liament of the province of British Columbia. Te Speaker Supply Act, 2020–2021 shall give notice to all members that he is so satisfed or In Her Majesty’s name, Her Honour the Lieutenant- has been so advised, and thereupon the House shall meet Governor doth thank Her Majesty’s loyal subjects, accepts at the time stated in such notice and, as the case may be, their benevolence and assents to this act. may transact its business as if it has been duly adjourned to that time and date. Hon. J. Austin (Lieutenant-Governor): ÍY SȻÁĆEL Tat, by agreement of the Speaker and the House NE SĆÁLEĆE. ÍY, C̸NES QENOṈE ṮÁ. Leaders of each recognized caucus, the location of sit- As always, it’s wonderful to be among you, to see you all, tings and means of conducting sittings of this House some of you in person and a number of you virtually as may be altered if required due to an emergency situation well. I do want to say how very much I appreciate the work or public health measures and that such agreement con- that you’ve done together this last session. It’s been a tre- stitute the authorization of the House to proceed in the mendous efort. manner agreed to. Te Speaker shall give notice to all [5:05 p.m.] members of the agreement. I feel very, very proud, actually, of the work that you’ve Tat, in the event of the Speaker being unable to act all done, the eforts that you’ve made, the work that you’ve owing to illness or other cause, the Deputy Speaker shall done to keep us all safe, to protect people who are most act in his stead for the purpose of this order. In the event vulnerable, to care for children and families, to support that the Deputy Speaker being unable to act owing to ill- arts and culture — all of the things that make our lives pos- ness or other cause, the Deputy Chair of the Committee itive and afrming. I feel very proud of all of you, and I’m of the Whole shall act in his stead for the purpose of this very deeply grateful. order. In the event that the Deputy Chair of the Committee I’d also like to acknowledge Ms. Ryan-Lloyd and the of the Whole being unable to act owing to illness or oth- members, all of the team of the Legislative Assembly, for er cause, another member designated collectively by the their, I think, truly outstanding job you’ve done of man- House Leaders of each recognized caucus shall act in his aging the session this time around. It’s certainly been chal- stead for the purpose of this order. lenging, but you’ve more than risen to the task, and I’m grateful for that as well. Motion approved. Tank you all so much. I wish you a happy few weeks, [5:10 p.m.] some time with family and friends, and please do take good care of yourselves. Mr. Speaker: Government House Leader, just before HÍSW̱ ḴE. you motion to adjourn, if I may, I would certainly love to thank all of you for your extraordinary efort and cooper- Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor retired from the ation in making what we’ve had to do over the last few chamber. months possible. I think it’s something that every one of us should be very proud of. I think you all know that we really [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] did lead the world, in so many ways, on this, and that’s cer- tainly a great tribute to each and every one of you. Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, before recognizing the Government House Leader, as we adjourn for this Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House. extraordinary summer sitting period, I would like to rec- ognize the many assembly employees who make our work Motion approved. possible. As you’ve just heard, it has been an extraordinary efort. Preparing for this ambitious undertaking required Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until further innovation, and hours of planning went into being ready notice. for our frst historic hybrid sitting on June 22. On behalf of all members, I extend my appreciation and Te House adjourned at 5:11 p.m. Hansard Services, Reporting and Publishing

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