9'a $PoiK5, ,4qRg1-\' N5p*1ln91,i1r- I Bv Lucy GorpRN sor.I waswith Meyer for two yearsand I would haveto say thathe wouldbe one of mY mentors. to Romefor five yearson the staff of the Aardinal EdwardEgan has somecritics in Then I returned The rectorwas Archbish- I City, where,as ,he has decidedto closea PontificalNorth American College. \-znumber of parishesand schoolsfor economicreasons. op Martin J. O'Connor,who had a greatdeal to do with my Now, at age75,hehas reached retirement age, though it is not dlvelopment.He wasthe man who had ordainedme in 1957 clearwhen he will be replacedas archbishopof "the city that andthen two yearslater he broughtme backto be on his fac- neversleeps," or by whom.At the endof November,and only ulty.Then, when I wenthome again, Cardinal Meyer had died a few hours before he left for to attendthe Novernber andJohn Cardinal Cody, the archbishopof New Orleans,was 24 consistory,Cardinal Egan received Inside the Vatican'scttl- namedto Chicago.I hadthe pleasureof workingas secretary ture editor Lucy Gordanat his residencebehind St. Patrick's andlater co-chancellor under Cardinal Cody from 1965-1972. Cathedral. So,if you arelooking for peoplewho madea deepimpression on me as a youngprlest, Your Eminence,you I would haveto include were still a schoolboy CardinalMeyer, Arch- when you felt called to bishopO'Connor, and . What CardinalCody. inspired you? Who was responsi- CnRotNnl EowRno ble for sending you to EcRN:I was blessedby study in Rome? growing up in a wonder- EceN: Cardinal ful ,St. Giles in Stritch. Perhapsyou Oak Park, Illinois. My know Villa Stritch in parentsowned a home Rome on Via della there for 46 years.We Nocetta.It's wherethe four children were priestswho work in the blessedwith extraordi- Curia live. Cardinal nary priests.My pastor, Stritchwas a gentleman. Lawrence During my studentyears Frawley,was a real hero, in Rome,he wroteme a but that's a long story letter eachsemester. I which I'd like to tell you kept those lelters [or whenwe havemore time. manyyears. One of his curates, What did you learn ReverendCharles Bur- from Cardinal Stritch? nickel. took care of me EceN: First and fore- and my brotherduring the most the importanceof yearswe had polio, a very EnwnRD kindness.He was a man contagiousdisease then. of extraordinarykind- The braveryof this young NESS, priestand his extraordi- CnRDINAL,EC;AI\From Archbishop narykindness to my fami- Martin O'Connor? ly madea greatimpression A Talr wIrH THEARCHBISHop oFNew Yom. THr EcnN: I watcheda uponme. ABourHIS LIFE AND Wom - man who worked mira- Later,my high school Cenorunl TELLSus cles in Rome. After in downtownChicago was ANDTHE POPT,S UPCOUTNG VISIT TO THE USA... World War II he cameto QuigleyPreparatory Semi- Rome.He got the Villa nary,though 85 to 90 per- SantaCaterina at Castel cent of the studentsdidn't becomepriests. In shon, I had a Gandolfoback for usAmericans. He alsorevamped the Amer- specialfamily, a supportiveparish, and an outstandingeduca- ican Collegeor graduatehouse on Via dell'Umilth and was tion.All of theseelements created, I think, an assistanceto the responsiblefor building the PontificalNorth AmericanCol- Lord's grace,and I hopeit wasthe Lord's gracethat led me to lege,our seminary,on the Janiculum. the priesthood. O'Connorlater becamethe nuncio to Malta and the first So were Fathers Frawley and Burnickel your mentors? presidentof the PontificalCommission for SocialCommuni- Ec.cN:No. I wasordained in Romein 1957when Samuel cations.He led the committeewhich wrote the documenton CardinalStritch was the archbishopof Chicago.When I came communicationsfor the SecondVatican Council. So I would homein 1958after four yearsat the seminary- the Pontifi- certainlysay that it was an extraordinaryopportunity and cal North AmericanCollege - CardinalStritch had died and gracefor me to be associatedwith sucha splendidperson. I becamesecretary to Albert CardinalMeyer, Stritch's succes- What did your parents think of your decisionto

INSIDE TIIE VATICAN FebruarY 2O08 becomea priest? New York. So did JohnNeumann, who EcnN:Being devout Catholics. rhey was ordainedin New York by Bishop werevery proud. Dubois,but is connectedto Philadelphia. Had there been other priestsin Not to leaveout MotherSeton, who is con- your family beforeyou? nectedto Baltimore,but wasbaptized here Eca,N:No. in New York. So I hopein your article Since? you'll mentionall theseNew York heroes. E<;eN:No, therehaven't. As we touchedon earlier, during the Have you ever doubted your voca- 1950syou studied in Rome: first at the tion? North American Collegeand then at the EcnN:Again the answer is no. Gregorian University, not to mention You are lrish-American and you that you were alsoordained in the Eter- are the cardinal of New York, which nal City on December15, 1957.What until recentlyat leastwas a very Irish was Rome like 50 yearsago? archdiocese... EcaN: I landedin Romein 1954.Of EceN: Now wait a minute, the course,we all cameby shipin thosedays. largestnumber of priests,if you are I came on the USSConstitution which interestedin theirethnic backgrounds, belongedto the AmericanExport Lines. in New York is perhapsof Italian Romewas still sufferingfiom the tragedy descentwith an ever-growin-enumber of the SecondWorld War. There was of Hispanicbackground. tremendouspoverty evervwhere. But over Cardinal Spellmanwas the cardi- ht my manyyears in Rome,I sawthe Italian nal when I was growing nationrebuild itself. I think up in New York. He and TerenceCardinal Cooke with MotherTeresa; left, F6lix that you and I would both all his successorshave Varela;below, Pierre agreelhat. froln an econorttic beenlrish-. Is Toussaint;right, Dorothy Day standpoint,Italy is in veryfine St. Patrick, 's and conditiontoday. Italy is an New York's patron, your inspirationand a blessingfor favorite saint? me. EcnN:I'm veryfond of Would it be fair to say St. Patrickand especially that Rome is still vour of our beautifulcathedral favorite citv? herein New York, but I havea lot of other saints EceNI:It's certainlyone of them.As you knou,. who meana lot to me. Moreover.there are manv I'll be leavingfor Rometonight. I'm goin-eover fbr "New Yorkers" that members of the archdioceseand theconsistory, but alsoto makesure that everything is I hopeto seebeatified someday: Terence Cardinal in placefor the papalvisit to New York nextApril. Cooke,who wasthe cardinal archbishop of NewYork before During your long stays in Rome between1972 and JohnCardinal O'Connor (not to be confusedwith my nentor 1985as a judge of the Sacred , you became ArchbishopMartin J. O'Connor)and whosecause has been one of the 'sgreatest experts in canonlaw. Canon presentedto the Holy See.There's also the priestF6lix Varela law hasmany branches;which one interestsyou the most? (1788-1853),a Cubanwho waschosen to representCuba in Ece:l: Marriagelaw. I was a professorof marriagelaw at theSpanish Parliament where he insisted that the Spanish gov- the PontificalGregorian University. I taughtthe procedures ernmentgive independenceto Americaand put an end for handlingmarriage cases at the StudiumRotale, which is to slavery,so put a priceon hishead. He fledSpain and the law schoolattached to the Rota,and at a numberof other cameto New York, foundedthe first Spanish-languagenews- universitiesin Italy.My lecturesusually focused on canonlaw papersin the US, andbuilt threeof our NY parishes.I believe havingto do with marriageor canonlaw havingto do with he was a manof extraordinaryintellectual achievement and marriageprocedures. You mentionedhaving interviewed Car- holiness.I would also include Pierre Toussaint ( I 766-I 853),a dinal PeterErdri, another canon law expert.He andI arevery slavefrom Haiti who cameto New York in 1787.When his good friends.He's beenhere to visit me in New York many owners,you'll haveto forgiveme for thatword, fell uponhard times. times,he took careof thembecause he'd becomethe most You werea closecollaborator of His HolinessJohn Paul sought-afterhairdresser in New York, evenserving on bank II. Do you have any specialmemory of him you'd care to boards.He was a daily communicantrnd foundedmany share with Inside tlrc Vatican's readers? Catholiccharities. Another candidate would be DorothyDay. EceN:Every memory I haveof him is warmand beautiful. By mentioningthese people I wantto enrphasizethat there are To givejust oneexample: when I becamebishop in Bridge- manyNew Yorkers of extraordinarysilnctity that we wantto port,, I askedif he would be so kind as to appear seeraised to the altars. in a film thatwe wereputting together for thediocese. He was So who is your favorite saint? wonderfuland invited me into his library,where we madethe Ecnru:Mother Cabrini, who actLrall.vgot herstart here in film. I felt as if I'd beenchattins with a verv old friend.

February2O08 INSIDE THE VATICAN 5l ().r,lJt'rt),\:.,, (J}l - \t(T.{\,) 1'1,1,,11 Hou' do 1,outhink tlrat historl' u'ill judge .lohn Paul ll ? Ii;,tx: Theseare all storiesthll I lravcto catchtlp with. As Et;ax: I clon'tknow lrorvhistorv willjudgc hinr.but I hopc I'r'e lold vou. I'ltt leavin-ufor Rome toni-ghtand it sountlsttr hc'll be rententbereclas a verv holv anclenergetic sr.r('cc\\()r'()l' rrc as if thercare a l

52 INSIDT THEVATICAN February2O08 accomplishmentsare. Cerrainly nrnning our educationalsys- I've readthat you'vehad to cut backon tlre numberof tem is one of my mostimportant etlirrts, onc' aspect of m1' schoolsbecause the budget you inherited was wa)' oYer- work thatI devotean immenseart.loult ol'tirne and energy to. extended.Do you consideryour drastic reductionof the I suspectthat some people woulcl say thal I devotetoo much budget, becauseof which vou've been nicknamed of my trmebegging for moneyancl seeing to it thatour schools "Edward Scissorhands,"a necessaryevil? areoperating well. EcnN:The newspapers like to giveme epithets and to men- In the New York archdiocesewe havethe largestprivate tionthat this school or thatschool had to beclosed. However. schoolsystem in America,whether it bereligious or not.It's a theyalways forget to mentionthat the enrollment goes up nev- constantstrug-ule. especially to keepour inner-cityschools ertheless.Many tintes here in NewYork, if two schoolswere open.Wouldn't I loveto seein your splendidrttagazine the withina blockor two of eachother. by closingone or theother factthat we havell-5 inner-cityschools in thethree boroughs andconsolitlating, we increasedenrollment because the edu- we serve;23 aresecondary or high schools;65% plusof our cationimproved in therenaining school. So we've seen a rise childrenin thoseschools live under the poverty line. We knorv in thetotal enrollment and very few necessaryclosures. Some thatbecause of the schoollunch program. Nonetheless, 9-57o of thelocal newspapers like to emphasizeonly what they hope of our youn-qsters in four yearsand 987cof themgo makesthe situation look bad. Once again I'd liketo emphasize -eraduate on to collegein a city wherethe public school system is able that oursis the largestprivate school system in the nation, to graduateless than half of thechildren who colne to it for an whetherreligious or notreligious. education. I'm very honoredthat you agreedto speakwith me this Believe it or not. our I l5 morning because I've been CardinalEgan receives the red biretta lrom JohnPaul ll on February21 2fi)1 inner-citv schoolsare less than ' told that meeting with the half of the 219 parochial ele- nredia is your least favorite job; mentary and secondary schools part of your is that true? I run in the archdiocese.We also Et;nl: You knou thereaglin ()ne own, but do not run, eight that beliel stenlsfrolll arti- Crtholic collegesand universi- cle that appeared in a small ties as well as a Catholic med- newspaperabout a year and a ical school,the New York Med- half ago. Here's the real storY ical College. It's one of the behind it. The newspaperwant- largest in the nation. So, You ed to interviewnte and I couldn't see, the archdioceseand I are make it so they published an very much involved in edr.rca- article savinB I avoided the tion. I doubt any other archdio- press.Pure nonsense!I aPPear cesein the world is so involved tiequentlyon television.Yester- in education. day I was on New York One. Many of our 2J9 schools are I'm also on the radio all the not in the city of New York or in time. I think my presssecretary job. our other inner cities. The archdioceseof New Yrrrk is 180 JosephZwilling here and I do a prettygood Forexamplc. miles long and we have schoolsthroughout the entire areathat theday that Archbishop Sandi announced that the Holl' Father we serve.They're all excellent schools,but especiallynow wouldbe coming to NewYork. I believeI wason threetelevi- that the middle class is being so pressttredby ever-rising sionshows, two radioshows, and spoke to numerousnewspa- pricesand salariesthat are not keepingup. it's very difficult pers. job? for thesefamilies to spendthe kind of money that'snecessarv What's your favorite aspectof your fbr a Catholic education.I wish we had more priests.sisters' EcnN:Parish visitation. When I camehere. I had known and brotherswho could staff our schools.but the situationis CardinalO'Connor verv well. After all, I'd beenhis auxiliary what it is. We struggleto do our very best.first of all because bishoplthe good cardinal liked to be at St.Patrick's Cathedral we're teachingthe faith along with academiclessons and also everySunday. Even if hewas in Romeon a Saturdaymorning. becauseours is a tremendouswork of charity in those areas he'dfly backto be at St. Patrick'son Sunday.He considered that are depressed. thatpulpit to be the focusof his work andit wasa splendid We areone of the largestcharitable institutions in the Unit- focus.I haverather focused on theindividual parishes. I try to ed States.Our archdiocese'sCatholic charities have an annual bein St.Patrick's two Sundaysa month,but frequently I don't budgetof over half a billion dollars.We have thousandsand rnakeit becauseI do parishvisitations and parishanniver- thousandsof catechistswho are teachingeverv week in over saries.My greatestpleasure as the cardinal archbishop of New 400 parishes.So these are the issttes that fbr me lre central York.and all my priestsknow this, is to be in our parishes'We of here in New York. We're a people u ho preach the Gospel haveover 400 parishes:I want to know eachand every one devotedlylwe're a peoplewho pral' u'trll especiallvat Mass; themwell. we're a people committed to justicc artd compassion,and I A Chicagoanby birth and a Roman cleric by training' would point to our inner-cityschools rtrtd Catholic charities as do you feel yourself"an outsider" here in New York? two examples. EceN:I've livedin GreaterNew York since 1985, so I think

February2O08 INSIDE THE VATICAN 53 Oa cflr-lO, Kb. .'t N D \I t,r--():l),\k,- -\t{d after22 yearsI'm no longer an outsider.Wouldn't you say His Holinessyour resignationas archbishopof New York that'ssafe? on your 75th birthday. The Holy Father hasnot yet accept' The year 2007was an important year in your life. You ed it, so, tike your predecessor,you could continue to vote turned 75, and you will celebrateyour 50th anniversaryas in conclavesuntil your 80th birthday and even afterwards a priest next month, and it has just been announcedthat you could continueto participate in pre'voting discussions His Holinesswill visit here in April 2008,the bicentennial but not enter the conclave. of the archdioceseand the l50th birthday of St. Patrick's. Eceu: Wait a minute.Be careful.I don't know aboutcon- In your opinion what's the significanceof this papal visit claveswith or without an s. I'll continueas archbishopand to Washington,D.C. and to New York? cardinalof New York as long as the Holy Fatherwants me to Ec,qN:The Holy Fatheris coming herebecause he's and,of course,I would alsohope that, when I get to my 80th addressingthe United Nations.He was invited hereby Ban birthday,Benedict XVI will still be Pope. Ki-moon,the newsecretary general of the UnitedNations. Ki- Beforehis electionHis Holinessexpressed his desireto moon'sa goodfriend of mineand has been in this room many retire back to Bavaria to study and write. What about times with his wife. Ki-moon went to Rome and in person you? invitedthe Holy Fatherto NewYork, andhe accepted. EceN:First of all, whenthey retire me, I will be veryhappy So, sincehe was comingto New to do what anyonetells me to do, but York,he, of course,as a headof state, that anyonewill be the Holy Father. had to stop frrst in Washington.He's When he saysto retire,I'll stepdown. actuallydoing more thanjust a stop I love being the archbishopof New there. York,but I'll be delightedto do what- In Washingtonhe'll be meeting everis next. the president,but he'll also be meet- I onceheard a storyin Rome- and ing with all the bishopsof the United this is anotherof thosecrazy Roman States;he'll be speakingto the educa- stories- that I wasgoing to retireto tors of CatholicUniversity, and he'll Paris.I hopea FrenchRoman made it be having a meetingwith the non- up and that peopleeverywhere chuck- Christianleaders of theUnited States. le aboutit. So that'sthe Washington story. All jokesaside, I expectto continue In NewYork, he'll addressthe UN living here in New York after mY in the morning and later that day retirement,to havea chanceto do Con- addressthe ecumenicalleaders of the firmations,and to help the neu' arch- Protestantand OrthodoxChurches bishopin whateverway he mightwant. herein New York City. The next day I'll alwaysremain a NewYorker. How- he'll holda youthrally at St.Joseph's ever,if someonewants to trace the Seminaryin Yonkersand presideat a sourceof the Paris story, I'd love to Massin St.Patrick's Cathedral for our know who wasresponsible. deaconsand priests.This will be the Last but not least,how would You first Mass ever celebratedin St. like to be rememberedas archbishop Patrick'sby a Pope.On his third and of New York? last day he'll visit GroundZero and EcaN: As one who took good care hold a Massat . of the peopleof God, at leastto the Speakingof His Holiness,what was it like to enter the very bestof his ability.Not to mention,as the cardinalwho conclave?As someonewho is so familiar with Rome and spentmost of his time,all thathe could,in the parishesof his the Curia and so closeto John Paul II, what were your archdiocese. emotions? Beforewe end,I want to addthat I wasdelighted to meet EceN:It wasone of the mostmoving events of my life - you andspeak to Insidethe Vatican. certainly, as a priest, the most moving event apart from my I believeI've had a subscriptionas long as the memoryof ordinationand my consecration,both of whichalso took place man,so I know your magazinevery well andI think you do a in Rome.As I've said,I wasordained by ArchbishopMichael very fine job. O'Connorand consecratedby CardinalBernard Gantin from I'm gladI've beenable to tell you aboutour greatarchdio- Benin. Let me mentionthat as a memberof the Rota I was ceseof New York, of which I'm very proud,to straightenout involvedin the conclaveswhich electedJohn Paul I andJohn someof the storiesabout me that arefun but nonsensical,and Paul Il. As you may recall,they say "ExeantOmnes" ("May to tell you aboutthe Holy Father'supcoming visit here. everybodyleave") just beforethe cardinalsenter the Sistine Pleasemention that here in NewYork we'reall lookingfor- Chapeland the lastof the "everybodies"are the judges of the wardto nextApril. Pleaseassure the Holy Fatherthat he'll be Rola.So you couldsay I waswell-prepared emotionally' Even welcomein NewYork. We'll be warm andprayerful. O so,the lastconclave was very stirring. In keeping with the Code of Canon Law, you offered Lucy Gordanis cultureand arts editor oflnsidethe Vatican.

INSIDETHEVATICAN FebruarY2008