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Franklin D. Roosevelt Through Eleanor's Eyes

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Franklin D. Roosevelt Through Eleanor's Eyes Franklin D. Roosevelt Through Eleanor’s eyes EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Listen to Presidential at http://wapo.st/presidential This transcript was run through an automated transcription service and then lightly edited for clarity. There may be typos or small discrepancies from the podcast audio. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: March 4, 1933. A grey and cold Inauguration Day. Outgoing president Herbert Hoover and incoming president Franklin Delano Roosevelt had on their winter coats, and they had blankets wrapped around their legs as they rode side-by-side in an open touring car from the White House to the East Portico of the Capitol building for Roosevelt's swearing in. There were secret ramps set up so that FDR could wheel himself nearly all the way to the stage. And then with the help of his son James, he propped himself out of the wheel chair and walked slowly to the lectern. He stared out at the crowd of Americans who were gathered there to watch his inauguration during these dark days of the Great Depression, and he took the oath of office. FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT CLIP LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: Roosevelt's hand was on his family's 250-year-old Dutch bible. The page was open to 1 Corinthians 13, which has the words: “Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It does not dishonor others. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes. Always perseveres.” I'm Lillian Cunningham with The Washington Post, and this is the 31st episode of “Presidential.” PRESIDENTIAL THEME MUSIC LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: This episode is about love, in a way. FDR had four terms in office -- 13 years. So instead of spending a lot of time on the nuts and bolts of the New Deal and World War II, we're going to do something a little different and examine the presidency and leadership style of FDR through the prism of Eleanor Roosevelt. Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 1 We do first need a picture of Franklin, though, before Eleanor and Franklin are a pair. So, my first guest is the director of the FDR Presidential Library & Museum, Paul Sparrow. PAUL SPARROW: So happy to be with you. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: So, Paul: Franklin Delano Roosevelt was born in 1882, Hyde Park, New York, at the very site where his presidential library is now. So, what was life like for him growing up there? PAUL SPARROW: Well it's about a thousand acres on the Hudson River, right here in the middle of the Hudson Valley, and it's just an incredibly beautiful location. His mother had a very difficult childbirth, so he was the only child. His father was much older than his mother. He really was the apple of their eye. I mean, they devoted themselves to his life. So, he had everything he wanted. This was a wonderland filled with animals. He would sail in the summer and ice boat in the winter. So, his upbringing here really deeply influenced him in terms of his later policies -- the way he created national forests and national parks. It gave him a deep sense of confidence in himself. They would often go to Europe for months at a time with Franklin and take him to the world capitals. He spoke German fluently. They spent a lot of time in Germany. So, that sense that the world is a larger place also influenced Franklin very much. He had a very sophisticated world view, even at a fairly early age. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: So, he goes off to Groton, the prestigious boarding school and then to Harvard. His father died shortly after he starts college. What is cementing itself in him during this time? What sort of character traits and also political propensities are starting to show themselves? PAUL SPARROW: His Harvard years -- you look at them, and you don't find anything that would indicate the sort of greatness that was to come. He had this enormous self-confidence. He had this ability to focus on the things that he wanted to do. But there was nothing that you would describe as extraordinary. It was almost like he was biding his time. He's not a particularly outstanding student. I mean, he was popular and he was effective, but he was not number one in his class or, you know, the great school leader or a great athlete or anything. Now, this was a period when you see Theodore Roosevelt was emerging as a major political leader. And I think that influenced him probably more than anything that happened to him at college. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: They were both progressives, but technically FDR was a Democrat, while Theodore Roosevelt at that time was a Republican. Anyway, it's around this time that Eleanor enters the picture. And so, with me to talk about her now is Allida Black, the founding editor of the Eleanor Roosevelt Papers and also a professor at the George Washington University. Thanks so much for being here, Allida. ALLIDA BLACK: Oh, Lillian. I'm very excited. Thanks for having me. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: So, what was Eleanor's childhood like? And, you know, how is it that she and Franklin strike up a relationship? ALLIDA BLACK : Well, you know, Lillian, one of the things that's so amazing to me about Eleanor Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 2 Roosevelt is the extent to which she transcended her childhood. I mean, her childhood was really dominated by fear and disappointment. Her mother was one of the most beautiful women in New York and was convinced that her daughter was the ugliest child born in the universe -- so ugly that she called her ‘granny’ -- and her father was an alcoholic who became addicted to medication after he hurt his back in a sporting accident. And so, while she worshiped him, he would often forget her. And so, she was torn between love that disappointed her and love that told her that she wasn't worthy. And here she is. She becomes a woman whose life is defined by combating fear. And that's one of the things I think that really attracted FDR to her. I mean, granted, she was Teddy Roosevelt's niece. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: So, her father was Teddy Roosevelt's brother. ALLIDA BLACK : Yes. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: And so, Franklin and Eleanor had sort of a distant -- ALLIDA BLACK: They were fifth cousins, once removed. And while they had met when they were young children, the interest in each other -- the spark, so to speak -- happens when Eleanor comes back from London after going to school, and they run into each other on a train going from New York to Poughkeepsie and Tivoli, their respective homes. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: From what you know about Eleanor, what would FDR have been like on a date? What was it about him that attracted her? What did she find in him as a good complement to her personality? ALLIDA BLACK: Well, you know, they really were exact opposites. But they had very core beliefs, and I think what they saw in each other was something that no one else saw. She didn't see him as a dandy, as a pretty boy who had all this ambition and no skill. She saw a serious side of him. And he saw in her a kindred spirit, I think, that was not only just the Roosevelt Legacy and not this sense of duty, but this fierce passion -- this commitment to risk herself to make the world better. I mean, she wasn't your normal debutante. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: And so, Franklin was very close with his mother, who famously wasn't very supportive of the idea that he would propose to her, right? ALLIDA BLACK: Well, let's just say there were always three people in this marriage. Sarah very much thought that Eleanor was not worthy enough of FDR -- although, she ultimately changes her mind and becomes Eleanor's fierce ally. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: Why was it, to begin with, that she didn't think she was worthy? ALLIDA BLACK: Well, no woman would be good enough for FDR for Sarah. FDR was the sole focus of Sarah's life. And so, no one could ever live up to the love or the expectations that she had for her son. And Eleanor was shy. Sarah had some concerns that maybe FDR was falling for Eleanor because he was on the rebound. But she ultimately came to love and admire and cherish Eleanor. Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 3 LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: You had mentioned how she was sort of naturally shy. Maybe, if you could do just a little compare and contrast between the natural leadership gifts that FDR had and Eleanor had, and what each of them had to work on over their careers? ALLIDA BLACK: Well, if there was ever a child who was in a household that made a child feel unworthy, it was Eleanor. If there was ever a child who felt like they could do anything in the world without failure, it was FDR. So, they come from diametrically opposite childhoods. What happens to Eleanor is that she goes to school in London at the Allenswood Academy, which is basically where Centre Court, Wimbledon is now. And she was taught by this extraordinary woman, Marie Souvestre. And Marie Souvestre saw in Eleanor greatness. I mean, there's just no doubt about it.
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