Tuesday Volume 496 21 July 2009 No. 115 Part1of3 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 21 July 2009 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 731 21 JULY 2009 732 Mr. Straw: I was not seeking to make an astonishing House of Commons criticism of the Judicial Appointments Commission, but merely referring to the data, which—although there Tuesday 21 July 2009 are big problems with some of them—suggest that the situation for black and Asian people has gone backwards. We want the panel on judicial diversity to consider The House met at half-past Two o’clock carefully all the processes and bars on people who work their way through the profession to a certain point and then, whether they are women or black or Asian people, PRAYERS are discouraged from applying, or, if they apply, are less likely to be successful. That is particularly true of the [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] more senior judicial appointments Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): May I urge the Secretary BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS of State to avoid any form of political correctness in appointments to the judiciary? Is not it completely NEW WRIT wrong to see people in terms of their race, gender or religion when judging them and offering them jobs? Stewart Hosie (Dundee, East) (SNP): I beg to move, Surely all jobs, including in the judiciary, should be That the Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the given on merit alone? Crown to make out a new Writ— Mr. Straw: I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that I The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury am the least politically correct person whom I know. Of (Mr. Nicholas Brown): Object. course appointments should be made on merit, but there is something slightly insulting about the implication Mr. Speaker: As the motion is opposed, it will stand of his question— over until the time for raising matters of privilege after Questions. Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): No, no. Mr. Straw: Yes, there is. There is something insulting about the implication of the question that there will not Oral Answers to Questions be well-qualified black or Asian people. The problems that women and black or Asian people face are similar but not the same: they are very well qualified when they enter the profession, but for all sorts of reasons they JUSTICE may be put off from getting to the starting line for the more senior appointments. Of course, when they are on The Secretary of State was asked— the starting line for a circuit or High Court judge appointment, their merits should be assessed in the Diversity (Judiciary) same way as anybody else’s, but the problem is getting people to that point. 1. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): What steps his Department is taking to increase levels of diversity in Mr. Speaker: May I say at the start of questions that the judiciary. [288136] the Secretary of State’s enthusiasm always to engage with the question and respond fully is widely respected The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor throughout the House, but comprehensiveness must not (Mr. Jack Straw): Entry to the legal profession is now stray into prolixity? well balanced in terms of women and black and Asian people. That makes it all the more frustrating and Magistrates Courts paradoxical that, since the creation of the independent Judicial Appointments Commission in 2006, the data 2. Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): suggest that the situation for black and Asian people How many magistrates courts have been in operation in has, if anything, gone backwards. To provide more each year since 2005. [288137] robust solutions and process, in April I established an advisory panel on judicial diversity and look forward to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice its report later in the year. (Bridget Prentice): The number of magistrates courts in operation at the start of each calendar year since 2005 Keith Vaz: May I welcome that rather astonishing is: 361, 361, 360, 358 and, to date, 356. criticism of the Judicial Appointments Commission by the Secretary of State and Lord Chancellor? I agree Mr. Cunningham: Given the reorganisation of magistrates with it—we have not made progress on judicial diversity courts in the past few years, will the Under-Secretary and I was pleased that he appointed a panel to consider tell us what new initiatives have been piloted in them to the issue. When does he think that its recommendations tackle crime and its causes? will be before him? How long will it take him to implement them and put right what has not happened with the Bridget Prentice: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Judicial Appointments Commission in the past few his question because it allows me to highlight three years? areas where we have enjoyed particular success in 733 Oral Answers21 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 734 introducing innovative new approaches. The dedicated what is happening in their areas with hon. Members. drugs courts have now been extended from the pilots in The consistent picture has been of jobs going, including Leeds and west London to elsewhere in the country— compulsory redundancies in some places, and trainee indeed, I visited one in Salford not very long ago. probation officers not getting jobs. Will my right hon. Specialist domestic violence courts are being rolled out Friend agree to meet me and a cross-party delegation across the country. We now have 122 such courts, which from the all-party justice unions parliamentary group, are successfully bringing together different agencies to to see whether we can get to the bottom of what is deal with domestic violence. My right hon. Friend the happening in the service? Secretary of State recently opened the mental health court, which will deal with mental health issues and Mr. Straw: I would be delighted to meet my hon. crime. All those courts are part of our determined effort Friend. I have also set up a process with the major not just to bring offenders to justice but to ensure that probation trade unions, NAPO and Unison, and the when they have served their time they can be brought Probation Association whereby I see them every month back into the community in a positive and useful way. to work through local anxieties. In most cases—although not every case—that process has worked satisfactorily Probation Service to allay concerns. Of course I am worried about the number of trainee probation officers for whom there 3. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): currently do not appear to be jobs, but a lot of work is What representations he has received on levels of being done, including with the Prison Service, to ensure probation service funding for the next three years. that jobs can be provided across the board in the [288140] National Offender Management Service. The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor (Mr. Jack Straw): I have received many representations. Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): Why does Probation funding has increased since 1997 by 70 per the Secretary of State look surprised that he engenders cent. in real terms. The budget for probation in this so little confidence among the public and probation financial year is £894 million, compared with an out-turn staff when he cannot run his budget? The director of for last year of £897 million. probation has said that he wants the maximum level of underspending. Hundreds of expensively trained probation David Taylor: All prison officers are civil servants, trainees are going straight on to the scrap heap. Hundreds unlike the great bulk of probation employees. As the more staff on full pay are in the so-called surplus new directors of offender management are drawn almost employment pool, yet probation officers often have exclusively from the Prison Service, probation boards only a few minutes a week to supervise serious offenders. are budgeting for £50 million of cuts next year. Does The property maintenance system is so bureaucratic the Secretary of State understand the angst among our that changing a light bulb in Birmingham requires a public sector colleagues in probation and their unions, repairman to drive from Newmarket. As accountancy is the National Association of Probation Officers and not the Secretary of State’s strong point, will he confess Unison, about the consequences for individuals in the that public safety is very much in peril under his criminal justice system of a further loss of resources stewardship? and staff? Mr. Straw: The hon. and learned Gentleman does Mr. Straw: Of course I understand anxieties in probation nothing to enhance his case through gross exaggeration and prison services, but let me say to my hon. Friend, of the situation. As I have said, the simple fact is that first, that we have not set the budget for the year beyond probation spending has increased by 70 per cent. since next year. Secondly, over the past 12 years, the real-terms 1997, compared, in real terms, with 35 per cent. for the increase in the probation service has been twice as fast Prison Service. Probation spending has gone up further as that in the Prison Service. and faster than the case load. It has gone up much faster than it ever would have done under a Conservative Miss Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove) (Con): Does the Government, and much faster that it ever would under Secretary of State not recognise that the probation a Conservative Government.