Unaccredited Law Schools Assembly Committee on Judiciary
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Golden Gate University School of Law GGU Law Digital Commons California Assembly California Documents 11-5-1981 Unaccredited Law Schools Assembly Committee on Judiciary Follow this and additional works at: http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/caldocs_assembly Part of the Legal Education Commons, and the Legislation Commons Recommended Citation Assembly Committee on Judiciary, "Unaccredited Law Schools" (1981). California Assembly. Paper 222. http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/caldocs_assembly/222 This Hearing is brought to you for free and open access by the California Documents at GGU Law Digital Commons. It has been accepted for inclusion in California Assembly by an authorized administrator of GGU Law Digital Commons. For more information, please contact [email protected]. ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON JUDiCIARY UNACCREDITED LAW SCHOOLS Hearing of No\'ember 5, 1981 State Bar of California Board Room 555 Franklin Street San Francisco, California MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE Elihu M. Harris, Chairman Charles I mbrecht, Vice Chairman Howard Berman Richard Robinson Gary Hart Dave Stirling Walter Ingalls Larry Stirling William Leonard Art Torres Alister McAlister Maxine Waters Jean Moorhead Phillip Wyman Rubin R. Lopez, Chief Counsel Ray LeBov, Counsel Lettie Young, Counsel 937 TABLE OF CONTENTS Testimony taken on November 5, 1981 WITNESSES PAGE NO. ASSEMBLYMAN WALTER M. INGALLS 1 Author of AB 304 PATRICIA PHILLIPS 3 • Member of Committee of Bar Examiners ARMANDO MENOCAL 7 Past Chairman of the Committee of Bar Examiners JOHN A. GORFINKEL 11 Consultant to the State Bar of California PREBLE STOLZ 13 Professor Law, Boalt Hall, University of California at Berkeley LEO O'BRIEN 13 Professor of Law, Hastings School of Law LEDORIS HAZARD CORDELL 17 Assistant Dean, Stanford University, School of Law CYNTHIA ROBBINS 17 Stanford University Black American Law Student Association Representative MARIE GARCIA 22 Co-President and Student, Peoples College of Law MARK COLEMAN 26 Co-President and Student, Peoples College of Law JOHN WARWICK MONTGOMERY 29 Dean, Simon Greenleaf School of Law l i u Testimony taken on November 5, 1981 (Continued) WITNESSES PAGE NO. JAMES LIONTAS 33 Dean, Peninsula University, College of Law IRVING SCHLEIMER 43 Dean, Paci Coast University ROBERT T. ALLEN 51 Dean, Armstrong School of Law LAWRENCE KENNEDY 52 Dean, Humphreys College of Law JOHN COKER 53 Dean of Lincoln University Law School and Representing LaRaza Lawyers PATRICIA KILBUY 58 DOROTHY DURKIN-KENNEY 61 KEITH DEBRO 62 SUSAN BERRY 64 ii EXHIBITS PAGE NO. A Memorandum to Memhers of the Assembly 68 ,Judie inry Committee B AB 304 (Ingalls) anc1 Bill lmi'l 1 "f'is 70 c AB 3595 (Ingalls) and Bill Analysis 81 D State Bar's "Responses to Criticism Made 88 At Publ Hearing" by John A. Garfinkle E A copy of Pule XVIII of the State Bar PulA~> 96 A copy of Supreme Court Ru 957 110 c A ropy of Education Code 94310 112 H A copv of Education Code 94360 et seq. 11G I "The Problem of Suhstandard Law Schools: 119 The Californ rience" By John GarfinklE' A Comparison of California's Accreditation 131 Requirements and Certification Requirements of AB 304 EnrolJ~ent of California Law Schools - 132 Fall of 1980 L Bar Examination Statistics - July 1975 - 135 February 1980 Listing of California Unaccreditec'l Law 138 N Statistics of First Year Law School 139 Examination - June 1980 0 Enrollment of Law School by Category 140 and Ethnic and Racial Breakdown iii • CHAIRMAN HARRIS: m also cone We're the state the state, '79 the Board of Governors of to seek legislation or court that the study of law be That concept became a part However, in January of '81 an lative representatives. From you, at least the portion of AB State Bar, part of that legislation. response to the suggestions at attempts to meet some of these specif at that meeting. The legislation encountered by the law school s pays the fees and tuition, spends finds that he or she is not el that he or she has attended. The present legislation is not des i s nor to limit access to the practice The State mindful of the fact that many fine lawyers of unaccredited law schools and , that s do offer a fine legal education and accredited. The thrust of AB 304 is to be sure that those schools d The bill simply will make sure , that the student gets what he be viewed as a consumer type of legis student, the school is the vendor, and a legal education that the student to because that's what he or she is paying Now the practices which the State those which result in the law school rec time it is not offering the student is paying for. Most often, these si where the student, for example, is beyond in law school, perhaps even to t passed the first year law student's exam. those classes after that first year. Another abuse is where is admitted to a law school and beg to take classes having satisfied the pre-legal educational requirements. problem is found where the law school collects the money and fees, but at the same time it has led to register with of Bar Examiners or does not requirements for degree granting. Another where the law school closes its doors high and dry in the middle of the school increasingly frustrated over the years because the only sanction against these problems is who is denied credit for the c ses that he or , and believed will lead to JD degree 1 to take the general bar exam. AB 304 provides a simple mechanism consumer will get what he or she found in 6055.15 which provides that an unaccred not collect any tuition or fee in excess of $25.00 certain -4- • working the 11 the bill. 1, I s be CHAIRMAN HARRIS: I mean, would students who were case for students MS. PHILLIPS: Well, well be that it case. 1, I 1 m ask not -5- ASSEMBLYMAN INGALLS: Mr. be happy to do that. My in the state in terms of Unfortunately, you and Lincolnesque notion that f we don't have a number of s, then somehow we're the bar, especial from ities. I think the facts ind minorities and more women. minorities than all the I think the accredited law people who quote, "have been not ion of the law" and giving them I would ask that this question of Ms. to see you concerned about law s the public and also the profession. that you're in a delicate position the Bar does not want to be viewed membership. I think ought to igation to be very restrictive to our t, it's very easy to become disbarred easier than in any other profession, ship restricted. But I would hope that someone address the fact that the quality of prac much dependent upon a good undergraduate to that in your testimony, of people requirements, pre-law requirements I semester units, is it not? There are ited schools who don't even have think -- what about the publ out saying -- we placing imprimatur on? head and annointing them? These They're coming out of schoo law schools have turned out good s to think that if a person had gone program and a law school program, that ing of the civilization which he is a 1 of which he is a member. He should sort of historical perspective, and has some t being able to draft wills and pleadings. CHAIRMAN HARRIS: Mr. Ingalls, One, I would think that you his bill to reflect standards for ifferentiating among them. ASSEMBLYMAN INGALLS: If I could get vote, happy to do that. CHAIRMAN HARRIS: You may not get my vote better bill. ASSEMBLYMAN INGALLS: ABA accred ABA -6- That's the s~~ ... ~~ If they could meet that then It's very simple. Mr Chairman, quite offend anyone, yoursel los. But, law to three profess approprate. I'd like to 1 right. Let's 'm going to make move people along. the meeting, because I to hear from today you would like to say? MS PHILLIPS No, I have finished my you. CHAIRMAN HARRIS: Thank you very much Thank you, Mr. the , I've been assoc Committee of Bar Examiners for five or six years. 7 80 and I have an ex-officio member of Examiners pr to continue the work of the develop which really tests a actual as opposed to the I want address what I think are conceptions •.•. TAPE) .... has on its agenda unaccred schools Matters which I don't ted or bill, but looking down list nesses, exper that these are the matters Committee is go to hear a lot about today. The first myth conception is unaccredited law schools provide access to sion , women, working class people, people cannot obta to the profession through l legal education. The I assume, would thus be that we shoul not do anything t, or possibly even in appearance restr ts or has a hamper upon our unaccredited law schools. In fact, ited law s are in general not much , provide little or almost or working students. The result minority students in unaccred ASSEMBLYMAN INGALLS: A lot of bored MR. Well, I'm not sure about that s not a category Committee to gather sta s s Visit one of the schools, 'll f of -7- MR. MENOCAL: I've visited most of them, but it's still some can't say. I can only talk about the facts and what we really and that is that if we look at black, Hispanic, and Asian appli- on the bar exams, and we look particularly at those who pass, 80 come from ABA approved law schools.