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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 716 Thursday No. 21 7 January 2010 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions House of Lords: Secretaries of State House of Lords: Procedures Alternative Medicine: Astrologers Defence: Chinook Helicopters Video Recordings Bill First Reading and Statement Third Parties (Rights against Insurers) Bill [HL] Membership Motion Equality Bill Order of Consideration Motion National Security Strategy Motion to Approve Sudan Debate Health: Obesity Debate Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL] Order of Commitment Discharged Contaminated Blood (Support for Infected and Bereaved Persons) Bill [HL] Order of Commitment Discharged Grand Committee Bribery Bill Committee (1st Day) Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/index/100107.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £3·50 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £525 WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords £6 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440; Lords £255 Index—Single copies: Commons, £6·80—published every three weeks Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS CUMULATIVE INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN, compiled by the House of Commons, gives details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscription: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2010, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 199 House of Lords: Secretaries of State[7 JANUARY 2010] House of Lords: Secretaries of State 200 this House that they should answer questions? Will House of Lords she therefore join me in welcoming the new arrangements made by the Procedure Committee to give specific Thursday, 7 January 2010. questions to Secretaries of State who are Members of the House of Lords, and in wishing this experiment 11 am well? Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Bradford. Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I completely concur with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. It is an interesting innovation, which I look forward House of Lords: Secretaries of State to. I am sure that it is going to be a great success, and it Question will enhance the accountability of our Secretaries of State in this House. 11.06 am Asked By Baroness Boothroyd Lord McNally: My Lords, I endorse the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. I hope, and I To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they hope that the noble Baroness agrees, that all Members have proposals to enable Secretaries of State in the of this House will make a real success of the innovation House of Lords to appear in the House of Commons of questions to Secretaries of State sitting in this chamber to answer questions from Members of the House. Commons. I approached this Question with some trepidation because I thought I was going to have to disagree with The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Baroness the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, but hers is a Royall of Blaisdon): My Lords, all Secretaries of State timely warning. The Cunningham committee, which I should be fully accountable to Parliament. In principle, sat on, reported that the strength of both Houses was we see no reason why Secretaries of State in the Lords their differences in procedures and practices. We should should not appear before the House of Commons, if be careful before we start blurring the edges. that were the will of the two Houses. Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, the noble Baroness Boothroyd: I thank the noble Baroness the Lord is absolutely right. It is for this House to make a Leader of the House for her response. Does she agree success of this new opportunity for questioning Secretaries that any proposals to make Secretaries of State in this of State. It is important that we have procedures at this House answerable to the House of Commons at its end which are different and distinct from those in the Dispatch Box introduce an entirely new principle into other place. The questions that we will be putting to our bicameral Parliament? Do the Government propose the Secretaries of State from next week onwards constitute that Secretaries of State who sit in the Commons will a very different procedure from the procedure in the equally be answerable to this House at the Dispatch House of Commons, and I welcome that difference. Box? Will the Government therefore publish the Prime Minister’s letter to Mr Speaker Bercow, reported in Lord Peston: My Lords, is my noble friend aware the press on 25 October, and give an assurance that the that the best definition of conservatism is that we Lord Speaker and this House will be fully consulted should never do anything for the first time? Many of before any constitutional changes of this nature are us would welcome major changes in the way that contemplated? Secretaries of State are scrutinised in both this House and the other House, and clearly we agree that both Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: MyLords,itismy Houses should take the decision. However, the idea understanding that Peers can already appear before that it would be totally out of the question for us to the Commons as witnesses if this House gives them make any changes is certainly not acceptable to me leave to do so and they themselves consent or think fit. and, I imagine, not acceptable to most of our colleagues. However, that is a power that has lain dormant for some time. If Members of this House or anyone else Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I think that were to envisage Secretaries of State from this House there is agreement around this Chamber that everybody answering questions at the Dispatch Box in the other welcomes the innovation of having Secretaries of State place, there would have to be a change in the procedures answer more questions in this House, thus enhancing of that House, and it would require the consent of their accountability. I completely agree that change is both Houses. It is precisely a matter for both Houses, a good thing, but I also detect an appetite on all not for the Government—that is an important point. Benches, including the Conservative Benches, for the I am aware of the Prime Minister’s letter. I will seek sort of change that we will be having next week in this authorisation vis-à-vis its publication. House. Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, does the noble Baroness Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, will the noble the Leader of the House agree with me that, whatever Baroness bear in mind that a good many years ago, arrangements are made in another place to scrutinise when the Department of Energy was first set up, my government Ministers, Ministers in this House owe noble friend Lord Carrington was appointed Secretary their primary responsibility to this House, and it is to of State in this House? It was my honour to be the 201 House of Lords: Secretaries of State[LORDS] House of Lords: Procedures 202 [LORD JENKIN OF RODING] that it wishes to see to the procedures under which it Minister of State in another place. Will she also bear operates. I have recently put proposals to the Procedure in mind that since then we have had the first stage of Committee relating to Oral Questions to Secretaries of the reform of the composition of this House, which State, the tabling of Written and Oral Questions, and Ministers have repeatedly said makes this House more procedures for operating the new powers conferred on legitimate? Is it not strange that we are having this Parliament by the Lisbon treaty and the European pressure now to enhance the powers of another place Union (Amendment) Act 2008. by giving Ministers the opportunity, as some are suggesting—not the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd; I agree entirely with what she said—to go along there Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: I am grateful to my to answer questions instead of, as we are now proposing, noble friend the Leader for the work that she has done and as my noble friend has rightly pointed out, a new on that and for the work that she has been doing so procedure for them to be answerable to this House? Is admirably on the code of conduct and on our expenses not that the point that she needs to bear in mind? and allowances—I understand why those have been taking priority.
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