Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 26 NOVEMBER 1968

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1754 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Questions

TUESDAY, 26 NOVEMBER, 1968

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson," Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m. ISIS BY-ELECTION RETURN OF WRIT Mr. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the writ issued by me on 14 October,. 1968, for the election of a member to serve in the Legislative Assembly for the electoral district of Isis has been returned to me with a certificate endorsed thereon by the returning officer of the election, on 16 November, 1968, of J ames Robert Henry Blake, Esquire, to serve as such member. MEMBER SWORN Mr. Blake was introduced, took the oath of allegiance, and subscribed the roll.

QUESTIONS

NEGOTIATIONS ON CoNSTRUCTION OF GLADSTONE ALUMINIUM SMELTER Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- ( 1) On what date and by what Minister were negotiations undertaken with the Pechiney Company of France regarding the building of an aluminium smelter at Gladstone? (2) Has any firm decision been made from the negotiations and when will the building project commence? Answers:- ( 1) "The Pechiney Company was repre­ sented on the French Economic Mission which visited Queensland from November 6 to 10, 1968. As a consequence, the Company's representative pal'ticipated in the general discussions which were held in the Premier's Department in regard to investment prospects in this State. He also attended the subsequent discussions, again of a general fact-finding nature, which were arranged by the Department of Industrial Development." (2) "No."

CoNTRACT FOR EXPORT OF COAL FROM BLUFF lVIr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- Did the contract proceed as announced by Cambria Collieries Pty. Ltd. on December 27, 1963, regarding a $5,000,00(} five-year supply to French steel­ works of coal from Bluff, Central Queens­ land? If so, how many tons of coal have been exported and for what financial return during each year since 1963? Answer:- "This contract did not proceed. The Cambria colliery ceased mining operations in May, 1966." Questions [26 NovEMBER] Questions 1755

ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR (2) Is it proposed to keep any steam PRISONERS' Am SOCIETY locomotives for historical purposes? If so, what class and number will be kept and Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked under what conditions? The Minister for Justice,- Has he received any communication Answers:- from the Prisoners' Aid Society seeking (1) "Since January, 1968, 151 steam more financial assistance? If so, how much locomotives were condemned and written assistance has been or is contemplated as off the books. 142 steam locomotives have being approved and when will it be avail­ been cut up since January, 1968, and the .able? non-ferrous metals, the steel scrap and the cast iron have been sold by public Answer:- tender. The price received varies with the " A request by the North Queensland fluctuation of the metal market. To set out Prisoners' Aid Society for an increase in the detail sought by the Honourable Mem­ their financial assistance of $200 per year, ber would require considerable clerical made on June 18, 1968, was granted on work, the expenditure of which is not August 8, 1968, raising the assistance to considered justified." that Society to the sum of $1,400 per (2) An area has been set aside at the .annum. The South Queensland Prisoners' Redbank Railway Workshops for the Aid Society now receives the sum of $3,400 keeping of steam locomotives for historical per annum." purposes. It is proposed that the following locomotives be placed at this location:- TRAFFIC CHARGES BASED ON Locomotive BREATHALYSER TESTS Class No. Mr. Bennett, pursuant to notice, asked A.lO 6 The Minister for Transport,- B.15 444 ( 1) Since the introduction of the C.16 106 breathalyser, how many motorists have C.17 2 been charged with driving or being in C.l7 1000 charge of a motor vehicle under the AC.l6 221 influence of liquor and have been B.l8t 771 acquitted? BB.18J 1089 (2) How many motorists have been D.17 1051 convicted of having a · 1 per cent. blood­ C.19 700 alcohol content but less than ·15 per cent.? It is also proposed at this stage to place rail motor No. 14 fitted with a Panhard Answers:- engine at this location." ( 1) "Of the contested matters since the inception of the new legislation up to the ADDITIONAL LAND FOR HOUSING time the Question was asked, ten motorists COMMISSION, NORTH CAIRNS have been acquitted of an offence of Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked either driving or being in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence of liquor The Minister for Lands,- >Or a drug. However, all such motorists ( 1) Has any plan been submitted for were convicted of the offence of having a acquisition and reclamation of lands to concentration of alcohol in their blood extend the Queensland Housing Com­ equal to or exceeding · 1 per cent. while mission estate, North Cairns? ·either driving or in charge of a motor (2) If not, when and for what purpose vehicle." was the application for resumption pro­ (2) "Of the contested matters since the posed? inception of the new legislation up to the (3) If so. why was the application time the Question was asked, one motorist rejected? having a concentration of more than · 1 per cent. and less than · 15 per cent. has Answer:- been convicted of an offence of being in (1 to 3) "No reclamation works are charge of a motor vehicle while under the presently being carried out by my Depart­ influence of liquor." ment in the vicinity of Section 223 (Cairns North) which, I presume, is the area referred to by the Honourable Member,, RETENTION OF STEAM LOCOMOTIVES FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES as the Queensland Housing Commission estate. Should the Honourable Member Mr. Houghton for Mr. Aikens, pursuant to be in a position to identify more specifically notice, asked The Minister for Transport,- the site or area under reference, I will be (!) Have any redundant steam loco­ pleased to make inquiries and inform him motives been sold? If so, how many, to of the position should the matter come whom, and for what purpose and price within my jurisdiction. Alternatively, if the were they sold? matter concerns purchase or acquisition of 1756 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

land by the Queensland Housing Com­ requirement that any person finding a fire mission, the matter could be referred to burning during the State of Fire Emergency the Minister for Works and Housing." must report such fire to the nearest police officer or fire warden in whom is vested the DISPOSAL OF INDUSTRIAL EFFLUENT, responsibility to ensure that the Emergency NUDGEE AREA notice is observed. In Brisbane the office Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The of fire warden is discharged by the fire Minister for Health,- brigade." ( 1) Will he have his Departmental officers investigate the creation of industrial effluent pondages in the vicinity of Serpen­ DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION FROM tine Road, Nudgee, wherein thousands of QUEENSLAND UNIVERSITY TO NEWS gallons of effluent are discharged from road MEDIA tankers each week? Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The ( 2) Will he have his officers assess the Minister for Education,- health hazard created by the pondages? ( 1) How are items concerning the ( 3) Will he also have investigated the administration of the Queensland University possible effect on nearby farmlands of the which are of public interest reported to distribution of the effluent by flood waters? Press, radio and television? ( 4) If the actual effluent is not dele­ (2) Is Professor Sir Fred Schonell the terious, will he have action taken to reduce person empowered to comment on adminis­ the obnoxious odour that emanates from trative matters in the University of the pondages? Queensland to Press, radio and television? If so, in the event of his being unavailable Answers:- through illness or other reasons, who is ( 1) "I am advised that tannery sludge empowered to make statements or answer and effluent from a Kedron tannery are the queries of Press, radio and television? deposited in pondages near Serpentine Road, Nudgee. The land concerned is the Answers:- property of the Commonwealth Govern­ The University advises that:- ment." ( 1) "Important items of public interest (2) "Investigations by officers of my concerning the administration of the Department have disclosed that no nuisance University are reported to the Press, radio or health hazard is caused by this practice and television at conferences arranged by provided the sludge is dry before other the Vice-Chancellor. Other matters are trade effluent is added." reported to the Press and radio by the (3) "Investigations have shown that the University's Public Relations Officer on dry sludge grows grass and it is considered instructions from the Vice-Chancellor." unlikely to have a detrimental effect on (2) "The Vice-Chancellor, Sir Fred nearby farm lands even if flooding Schonell, as the chief administrative officer occurred." of the University, is the person empowered ( 4) "I am advised that this disposal to comment to the Press, radio and tele­ site has been used since 1965 and no com­ vision personally on administrative matters plaints of obnoxious odour have been in the University of Queensland. In the made." event of the unavailability of the Vice­ Chancellor, the Deputy Vice~Chancellor, Professor L. J. H. Teakle, is empowered PROHIBITION OF HOUSEHOLD OPEN-TOP to make such statements or answer the INCINERATORS DURING FIRE BAN queries of the Press, radio and television." Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,- Does the current ban on open fires apply IMPROVED ACCOMMODATION FOR to open-top type incinerators in house INSTITUTE OF MEDICAL RESEARCH yards in Brisbane suburbs? If so, whose Mr. Sherrington, pursuant to notice, asked responsibility is it to see that this dangerous The Minister for Health,- practice is stopped? ( 1) Is he aware of the appalling state of Answer:-· the building in which the Queensland "Yes. The prohibition of open fires Institute of Medical Research is carrying includes all fires to which ,the Act applies. out its operations? The Act does not apply to fires in (2) In view of the contribution the incinerators so constructed as to prevent centre is making in the field of medical the escape of fire or any burning material research and the need to ensure that the therefrom. Obviously open-top incinerators work of its scientists can be carried out do not conform to this description and with the aid of modern laboratory facilities, therefore come within the prohibition are plans under consideration for rehousing notice. The prohibition also includes a the institute? Questions [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1757

Answer:-- ( 4) "I question the extent to which (1 and 2) "The building in which the teachers are unhappy about the transfer Institute is housed is unimposing but the sy>tem. A condition of entry to the service suggestion that it is in an appalling state is is that a teacher is prepared to serve in unfounded. Recently an offer of a building any school as required. Schools throughout at the corner of Edward and Mary Streets the State can be adequately staffed only if was under consideration by the Department an effective transfer system is adopted. This as interim accommodation for the Institute needs little explanation when it is realised pending the development of plans for a new that the vast majority of teachers is building in the grounds of the Roval recruitell in the metropolitan area or large Brisbane Hospital but the Director indi­ provincial cities. Every teacher is required cated his preference to remain at the to perform 'away from home' service for present location for the time being." a period of two to three years." (5) "No. If the Honourable Member TEACHER TRANSFER SYSTEM can be more specific in respect of alleged anomalies. I shall take this matter up with Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked my senior officers." The Minister for Education,- ( 6) '"For primary schools there are ( 1) Why are so many teachers moved so district relieving teachers to meet any often during the year thus penalising emergency. The Department has given schools and classes? consideration to a similar scheme in respect (2) Are young and inexperienced of secondary schools; but as yet, this has teachers more likely to be transferred to not been found practicable, owing to the the country than to a city? If so, how does various subject combinations, the shortage this ensure that each school has teachers of teachers to undertake this work and the of equal quality? distances involved." (3) Is a teacher on transfer adequately recompensed financially? PAPERS ( 4) As teachers are obviously unhappy The following paper was laid on the about the transfer system, will he state more table, and ordered to be printed:- clearly the principles on which transfers Report of the Commissioner of lr:rigation are made? and Water Supply for the year 1967-68. (5) Will he set up an independent com­ The following paper was laid on the mittee of inquiry into the transfer system table:- to ensure that anomalies are removed? Order in Council under the Water Acts, ( 6) Has he considered setting up a flying 1926 to 1967. squad of emergency teachers prepared to go anywhere at any time to meet an FORM OF QUESTION emergency? Mr. O'DONNELL (Barcoo) having given Answers:- notice of a question- ( 1) 'The implication contained in this Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I advise the hon. Question is quite unwarranted. Teachers member for Barcoo that I shall have a look are transferred during the year to fill at his question. Questions containing lengthy vacancies caused by resignations, deaths, newspaper extracts are not permissible. Illness, transfers on compassionate grounds and changes in enrolment. Such transfers, SUPPLY however, are kept to a minimum." RESUMPTION OF CoMMITTEE-ESTIMATES-­ (2) "Yes. It is easier for unmarried SIXTEENTH ALLOTTED DAY teachers to find accommodation in country areas, and young teachers generally prefer (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, to complete their country service before Greenslopes, in the chair) they marry. Any commonsense appreciation ESTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1968-69 of the situation would indicate this. Young teachers are not necessarily less efficient. DEPARTMENT OF LANDS Moreover, inspectors' reports indicate that CHIEF OFFICE the standard of work in country schools generally is not below that of city schools. Hon. V. B. SULUVAN (Condamine­ This determined attack on standards of Minister for Lands) (11.32 a.m.): I move- teachers in country schools is to be "That $1,960,870 be granted for deplored. It seems that the Honourable 'Department of Lands-Chief Office'." Member is deliberately trying to stir up Before proceeding with the Estimates, discontent and dismay amongst teachers think it would be appropriate for me, as the and parents." first Government speaker today, to welcome ( 3) "A teacher on transfer enjoys the the new member for Isis. same conditions as any other member of Mr. Bennett: You were going to say "the the public service. All claims for expenses new Minister". You are about six months receive careful consideration." premature. 1758 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

\Ir. SULUVA;\;: He would be a better the Commit1ee an instance of this. Within a Minioter than the hon. member for South couple of v.eeks a ballot will be conducted Brisbane. to determine the successful applicants for I must be truthful and admit that would four blocks in the Goondiwindi district. A total of 781 applications were received. be happier to welcome somebody to this side but. as the hon. member is a man of These ha\e been examined by the committee the land. we have at least something in of review, which has already admitted 533 common and it will be pleasant to make his for the ballot and will possibly admit <~ acquaintance for the brief oeriod that he good many more at its final meeting. Of course, only four of these applicants can he will be in thi.'> Chamber. < successful, and the disappointed hundred~ __ I am pleased to have this opportunity to will look to me and my department for millate debate on the activities of a depart­ another opportunity. ment in which l have always been particu­ larly interested. I had long ago concluded The shortage of land for new selcle­ that the Department of Lands bv virtue of ment is being mitigated to an appreciable its functions governing le;sing, selling, extent by the brigalow land development reserving and generally controlling the public project. Despite inevitable difficulties, which ~state, was destined to play a leading role are inherent in a venture of this nature, the m the growth and development of this great scheme i~ proceeding to schedule. In Areas State. I and II a total of 138 new settlers have been established. Four blocks have been released Until relatively recent times. however, it in the new area, that is, Area III, and there never occurred to me that the· responsibility were plenty of applications for them. I for_ administering this very important organi­ think that the very keen interest shown in satiOn would be thrust upon me. But here I them is of particular significance. Generally, am and in the months that I have been the blocks in Area HI are a bit bigger and Minister for Lands I have come to appreciate a bit rougher than the blocks in Areas I and even more fully the importance of this H, and, for those reasons, may seem to department's work. Under the direction of be a little less attractive. However, the the three members of the Land Administra­ 248 applications, of which 197 were admitted tion Commission and the Survevor-General to ballot, for the first blocks that were a staff of more than 750 carry out a formid: able variety of duties associated with the opened tell their own story. alienation, leasing, occupation and protection We have required applicants to have sub­ of Crown lands. stantial financial resources in their own right. In the period that I have been Minister for to the extent of $36,000, but the imple­ mentation of this policy is necessary in their Land~. since_ 1_7 January last, it has been my duty and pnvilege to travel over many parts own interests and in the interests of the State. ?f the State and thus inform myself better The establishment of large areas of pasture m order to make decisions. During that in this type of country is a pretty critical penod I have had the opportunity of seeing exercise, and the new settler must be able the lands of Queensland and the various to step out with a fairly firm financial foot districts in which primary industries differ if he is to succeed. Even then, generaliy so much. Perhaps one of the most rewarding speaking, he can look forward to a reason­ parts. of doi~g this has been meeting people ably hard row to hoe. For this reason, he associated With the land and giving them the is permitted to borrow up to $72,000 from opportumty to discuss their problems with the commission so that he can get on with me. On most occasions I have taken a development. All this represents only the member of the Land Administration Com­ beginning, but it is the sort of beginning mission with me, not so that I can stand that is designed to ensure that the ultimate behind him or be shielded by hirn, but to goal will be won. g~_ve h1m, too, the opportunity of broadening It has been held that the amount of monev h1s knowledge of the conditions that exist required of applicants has the effect o-f throughout the State. keeping out the "battler". Of course this Mr. Walsb: That is a very sound idea. is really not so. Personal finance of this order has been stipulated after a careful .'\1r. SULUV AN: I believe that my policy and indeed sympathetic examination of all has been very well accepted by !andholders relevant factors. The facts of life in the all over the State. In fact it is taking situation are that, in this area, successful administration lo the people. ' - development has its price, and, relatively Metaphorically speaking, the ''trek to the speaking, the "battler" is a man with West" is still very much a live situation $36.000. in Queensland today. This State is coming A great number of blocks will be made more and more into focus in the eyes of available in Area III as soon as possible. land-seekers from places near and far, and Design work is well advanced, and pre­ the demand for land is growing at an ever­ development work. which is a new feature quickening tempo. For instance, last year of the scheme. is in progress. In recent 2,182 parcels of land were made available weeks burning has taken place on the scrub by the Crown in an effort to meet the needs that has been pulled. With the good fire of the community. Unfortunately, we simply conditions that existed prior to the imposition cannot fully meet the demand. I will give of restrictions in that area we had good St![>p/y [26 NO\EMBER] Supply 1759

burm. Recently tenders ha\" been called here-he 1s m court. I ask him not to inter­ for the seeding of those area' Only this rupt me as I have not much time and I want morning I was informed that a tender of to get on with my speech. 12c an acre has been accepted. This com­ In addition to the homesites sold by my pares with the cost of 20c an acre in Areas l department, land is made available to the and II, with the Government supplying the Queensland Housing Commission for resi­ seed. It shows that people who are engaged dential purposes. Last year about 82 acres in that type of aerial seeding are looking of vacant Crown land were set apart for sub­ to the Government for business. division by that commission. Jn other parts of the State my ckpartment The tremendous interest in land-holding in has in hand the design of about 4.000,000 Queensland is also illustrated by the number acres for new settlement, v. hi eh will result of transfers of leasehold tenures as distinct in the availability of about )4 new blocks from sale, or lease direct from the Crown. under the ballot system. The Commission's report for the year ended 30 June, I 968, points out that 3,913 trans­ The home-builder, the busines,man and the industrialist, like the farmer and the fers in ownership of leasehold tenures (expressing a total consideration of pastoralist, lean heavily on the Crown for $52,051 ,034) were registered. The significance land on which to conduct their pursuits. of these figures, I suggest, needs no emphasis My department has been provided "'ith funds by me. to the order of $800.000 to develop, by reclamation, "roading" and draining. etc .. I should like to include in this report a sites at selected localities, so that land for reference to the freeholding situation. As a great variety of purposes may be avail­ hon. members are aware, the freeholding pro­ able to meet, in substantial part at least, visions of the Land Acts now apply to all but the heavy demand. the pastoral tenures. In effect, of approxi­ mately 50,000 tenures registered in the books This year the Crown est:He preparation of the department, about 47,000 of them are programme incorporates 54 projects in 42 freeholding, in the process of being free­ localities extending from the Gold Coast to holded, or are capable of being freeholded. Mossman, and inland as far as Emerald and Miles. To date, 15,767 freeholding applications have been received, of which 14,246 have Mr. Houston: What will be the require­ been finalised. New applications are coming ments for getting onto those 54 blocks? to hand at an average of about l 00 per Mr. SULUVAN: Some of these blocks month. I think it is fair enough to point will be opened up under the open ballot out that a tremendous amount of work has system, and some under the selective ballot been performed by the department. I give it system. full marks for the excellent manner in which it has caught up the backlog, as it has dealt Mr. Houston: What finance will be with 14,246 of the 15,767 applications. required? It might be of interest if I mention that Mr. SULUV AN: They will be dealt with approximately 26,800,000 acres have now as they come forward. I am looking years been fully alienated by issue of deed of grant, ahead. Applicants will be required to have and approximately 14,200,000 acres are in experience. Under the selective system-I the process of being freeholded. do not knc.w if the hon. member is aware of Land development is proceeding satis­ this-applicants have to go before the com­ factorily throughout the State. One can only mittee of review and must measure up to guess at what the scene might have been requirements of experience, finance and age. like today had we not just gone through the I would not be telling the truth if I were to worst drought in living memory. As I travel say that $30,000 or $50,000 was required, through Queensland, I cannot help but be because each case is looked at as it comes impressed by the obvious courage and the forward. apparent cheerfulness of the many people Mr. Houstoo: You must have some idea. who have suffered the heartbreak of rainless Is it just over $5,000, or under $20,000? years. That we still have about 20.000,000 sheep and 7,500.000 cattle is a tribute to a Mr. SULUVAN: I would say it would be great land and a great people who know over $5,000, and possibly over $20,000. As how to use land. Landholders in these the blocks come along they are considered, drought-stricken areas are most appreciative and the lithographs are sent out as they have of the drought assistance extended to them been in the past, and the requirements are bv this Government. We do not look for indicated to the people who want them. They any great thanks in this regard. When must have finance-- people in these areas get into drought diffi­ culties, we realise that we have a respon­ Mr. Bennctt: In other 11 ords vou are sibility to them, and the $1 ,600,000 granted pricing the little fellow out of them.- as rent remissions and drought assistance was Mr. SUI~UVAN: No. As the hon. member greatly appreciated by these people. In addi­ knows, the value of the dollar today is not tion, they were allowed a 50 per cent rate as great as it used to be. Normally, at this rebate. time of the clay the hon. member is not '\

Mr. SUI,LIVAN: It might not be enough, The CHAIRMAN: Order! I suggest to but it was something that was never heard the hon. member for Maryborough and the of in the days of the Labour Government. hon. member for South Brisbane that if they Admittedly the Labour Government allowed want to have a conversation with the Minister freight remissions, but, in addition, we are they do so after he has introduced his grantmg !rerght rebates and this kind of Estimates. thing. It is easy for the hon. member to sit over there, without any responsibility, and Mr. SULLIVAN: Land utilisation is influ­ say that it is not enough. It is something enced to an appreciable degree by the that is appreciated by the landholders of absence, or the existence, of animal and this State and was never heard of in the vegetable pests. Queensland's history includes days of the Labour Government. There will many references to some critical period in not be a Labour Government for many this connection. For instance, we had the years, so the landholders know that sym­ prickly-pears, which made serious inroads pathy will still be extended to them. on production and looked like taking over the whole of the better rainfall areas until Mr. Davies: How much land are you they were checked by biological control. giving away to the A.M.P. in Maryborough? Mr. Houston: The cactoblastis? Mr. SULLIVAN: We were heartened early Mr. SULLIVAN: The cactoblastis was in the year by the recording of good falls before the hon. member's time. He would of rain in many parts of the State. We not remember anything about it. hoped (and, of course, we still hope) that Today we have another particularly seri· the coming seasons will be a little kinder. ous plant pest-Harrisia cactus-which poses I do not intend to create the impression possibly an even greater threat than the that the opportunities for land-seekers and prickly-pears. Efforts at biological control land-investors are becoming limited. On of this plant have given no useful results the contrary, I would say that we are on to date. In these circumstances it becomes the threshold of a new and exciting era. necessary to resort to less spectacular methods Today it is possible to embark on new of control. However, with the use of phases of land development by which land modern machinery to pull infested scrub that was previously regarded as waste lands areas and to plough, where practicable, and can be converted to useful productive regions. with the proper application of the best avail­ I point to such activities as development of able chemical formulations, considerable the wallum belt, the wet tropics and the progress has been made towards effective Gulf country, where the injection of large­ control. scale capital is taking place. Shortly after becoming Minister for Lands Mr. Davies: How much land are you I visited the area with the Chief Commis­ giving away to the A.M.P. in that area? sioner of Lands. We saw the problem that exists there and had an opportunity Mr. SULLIVAN: In answer to the hon. to look at it with Mr. Auld, the prickly­ gentleman who insists on interjecting about pear warden at Collinsville, a most dedicated how much land we are giving away we man, and Mr. Hunter, the officer in charge will not be giving away any land. I know of development. We were very aware of that the A.M.P. is interested at the present the need for more money to attack this trme, but that does not mean that at this pest. I was able to convince Cabinet of point o.f time that company will be the only this need earlier in the year, and more party mterested. I can assure the hon. finance has been made available to assist member of that. The Labour Government in the eradication of Harrisia cactus. 1 did not make any move to develop this have spoken on this subject previously, so country. This was done by the former l shall not deal with it any further at Premier, the late Mr. Pizzey. As Minister this stage. ~or Lands, I am not prepared to sit by Under the Stock Routes and Rural Lands tdly and see country m a good rainfall Protection Act, a pretty effective campaign area not put to use. There is an exercise is continually waged against a great variety of at the moment to interest people. The hon. established weed pests and vermin which, member mentioned the A.M.P., I did not. if left unchecked, would seriously reduce I do not say that the A.M.P. will be the the productivity of our lands. I might people to develop this country. But, as mention, too, the work of the Co-ordinating Minister for Lands, I am not prepared to Board in preventing the spread of newly­ sit by, with our scientific knowledge, and introduced weeds, which is a work of in­ watch land in a satisfactory rainfall area estimable value to rural industry. grow gum trees and rubbish. The large-scale land development taking Mr. Davies: People want land in that place in many parts of the State means, of area and cannot get it. You are going course, that a lot of natural vegetation i'i to give it away to the big interests. disappearing from the landscape~ This j, a worry to some people, but preparation Mr. SULUVAN: We do not give land of land for cropping and the growing of away to anybody; let us put that straight pastures is very much an essential part of for the record. rural progress. At the same time, however, Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1761 the interests of the naturalist and the con­ Mr. SULLIVAN: I have just been taken servationist can be protected. Indeed, they to task by the hon. member for Maryborough have been, and are being, protected. over the absence of Country Party members, yet the hon member for Salisbury now asks Mr. Sherrington: When are you going to me to repeat something that I said because do something about the Southwood project? he was not here. Mr. SULLIVAN: In the brigalow land Mr. Sherrington: I was here, but I was development project, for instance, about speaking to someone else. 60,000 acres were set aside as a reserve to retain for posterity a sample of the Mr. SULLIVAN: Because he is so interest­ original state of the countryside. eel in this matter, I shall, out of courtesy, repeat it if he sits there and is a good Mr. Bennett: He is not going to answer boy. that one. I might mention the case of an area of Mr. SULLIVAN: I point out to the hon. brigalow mixed scrub out along the Moonie member for Salisbury that I shall make Highway, near Southwood. I have been my speech in my own way. considering for some time a proposal that an area of about 17,500 acres be reserved Mr. Sherrington: Why are you taking in its natural state. I have now decided so long to make up your mind about that this be done, and action towards reserving Southwood? and setting apart a selected area under Mr. SULLIVAN: If there is something the appropriate terms and conditions will now hon. member wants me to say, it may be said, be put in hand. but I shall say it when I want to say it. Mr. Sherrington: In other words, it will The need for this sort of thing is never become a national park? lost sight of. The extent and the various types of reservation throughout the State Mr. SULLIVAN: That is so, but the land bear testimony to this policy. I might mention will not become available to us for three the case of an area of brigalow mixed scrub years. It is still held under lease. As far out along the Moonie Highway, near South­ as the Estimates relating to the Department wood. I have been considering for some of Lands are concerned, I am sure that I time a proposal that an area of about 17,500 have made the hon. member for Salisbury acres be reserved in its natural state. I happy. have now decided that this be done and Mr. Sherrington: You agree that I was action towards reserving and setting 'apart right in putting the proposal forw~rd, because a selected area under appropriate terms and there is now going to be a natiOnal park? conditions will now be put in hand. Appar­ ently the hon. member for Salisbury did not Mr. SULLIVAN: That is what I have told hear me. Perhaps some other hon. members the hon. member. opposite can tell him about that later. Mr. Sherrington: Good on you! Mr. Davies: Are you aware that there Honourable Members interjected. are only six members of the Government interested in land? They are interested only The CHAIRMAN: Order! in Queen Street and city development, not the country areas and decentralisation. Mr. SULUVAN: As hon. members are aware, Mr. Hooper, I have rece_ntly taken Mr. SULLIVAN: May I tell the hon. over the ministerial responsibilities for member for Maryborough through you, Mr. Aboriginal and Island Affairs. As I wish to Hooper, that I happen to know that a number devote a considerable amount of time to of members of the Country Party are at this these activities, I do not intend to speak at moment attending a committee meeting. We crreater length on land matters. On Thurs­ on this side have other things to do. day afternoon this week I shall be introduc­ ing a Bill to amend the Land Act, and Mr. Davies: There are only two Country hon. members and I will then have the Party members here. time and opportunity to discuss land matters The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. in greater detail. member for Maryborough is very vocal this Mr. Houston: Is that what your com­ morning. I suggest that he contain himself mittee members are doing now-telling you during the introduction of these Estimates. where to go? Mr. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Hooper. Mr. SULLIVAN: It is good to have some- Of course, we must make allowances, because one to tell you where to go. Some of the hon. member is at present so carried your fellows might mislead you. away with being such a good trainer and bringing in a winner. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Sherrington: Will you please repeat Mr. SULLIVAN: Before leaving the subject what you just said about Southwood? I of lands, I wish to record my appreciation was not listening; I was speaking to one of of the assistance that I have received from my colleagues. the Land Administration Commission. As 56 1762 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply hon. members will recall, Mr. McDowell Community oversight is now more of became chairman of the commission only managerial responsibility than superinten­ two or three weeks before I took over the dency; parents now accept responsibility for portfolio, and he and Mr. Heffernan and the guardianship of their children; right of Mr. Cook are three officers who are dedicated movement is not impaired; no restriction to carrying out their responsibilities, as is now ensues by race in regard to intoxicating Mr. Paul O'Gorman, the secretary to the liquor; no reference to electoral enrolment commission. All these men are very well is now made; provision exists for the elec­ known to hon. members, who, in their tion of Aboriginal councillors to contribute capacity as individual members, no doubt to the local government of their community; have had dealings with them. I am sure that and provision exists for the establishment of all hon. members have always found them Aboriginal courts, which are functioning. to be very courteous and efficient. It is not always possible for the commission to Recently the Aboriginal Relics Preserv­ do what hon. members want it to do; but, ation Act of 1967 received assent and became no matter what the problem is, I assure effective. This legislation represents the Gov­ the Committee that the officers of my depart­ ernment's desire to protect and preserve all ment always look at it objectively. I include evidences of the material culture of the in my expression of appreciation the Sur­ Aboriginal people and provides for a pro­ veyor-General, Mr. Yeates, and all the gramme of preservation of relics and the officers of my department. establishment of a library specifically con­ cerned with archaeological research and the Mr. Davies: Excellent men, but sadly frus­ control of archaeological excavation within trated by the policy of the Government. the State, which will enable scholars to plan and programme their work and so Mr. SULLIVAN: I agree with the hon. preserve the material cultures of a people member that they are excellent men; I outstanding in their ability to depict their shall leave it at that. It is the hon. attitudes to life in character forms. member's hour of glory, Mr. Hooper, so we will tolerate him today. For the informa­ POLICY tion of the hon. member for Isis, I point Generally the department's policy continues out that we very rarely hear anything from to be directed towards assimilation without the hon. member for Maryborough; he is particular loss of identity, but ensuring that very rarely here. I say to the hon. member, all Aboriginal families may choose to "Make the most of it." maintain the same manner of living as other Australians. Every opportunity is taken also This is the first occasion since this to foster within the people of the general Assembly discussed the general terms of community of the State a feeling of accept­ new legislation assented to in May, 1965, ance of Aboriginal and Islander families. that hon. members have had an opportunity and, progressively, this acceptance without to discuss matters pertaining to Aboriginal condescension becomes apparent. and Island Affairs. The Aborigines' and Torres Strait Islanders' Affairs Act became POPULATION--GENERAL effective as from April, 1966, and, with Collectively, people of Aboriginal and recent amendments, the Department of Islander racial origin in the State of Queens­ Aboriginal and Island Affairs is now con­ land approximate 50,000, but the important stituted under the collective Acts, the fact is that they are fellow Queenslanders. Aborigines' and Torres Strait Islanders' This population of people of indigenous origin, both assisted and non-assisted, com­ Affairs Acts, 1965 to 1967. prising Aborigines, part-Aborigines and I am aware of the pertinent facts of the Islanders, can be grouped under the following original Act, which is unique in that it headings:- incorporates legislative measures to meet the 1. There are 30,000 assisted people, needs of both Aborigines and Torres Strait including 8,000 Torres Strait Islanders and Islanders. Recent amendments include the 9,000 Aborigines and part-Aborigines, constitution of the Corporation of the residing in Government and church­ Director of Aboriginal and Island Affairs, sponsored communities. and amendment to section 26 of the Act -Grants of Aid-which allows for assistance 2. Approximately 20,000 non-assisted where required for- Aborigines and Islanders live within the (a) assisted Aborigines or assisted general community. Islanders; Although the actual numbers of Islanders (b) persons who, though not assisted living in the Torres Strait area vary to a Aborigines or assisted Islanders, are great degree as members of that particular descendants of an Aborigine or Islander. section of the indigenous people move within the Commonwealth, following construction Within present legislation, to the maximum work, particularly rail and road building, possible extent, Q!.Ieenslanders of indigenous for which type of construction they show origin are placed on the same footing great adaptability and are eagerly sought, as fellow Queenslanders and other members the total of 8,000 is assessed as a collective of the Australian community. figure. Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1763

Mr. Davies: How much is the Government under the auspices of various district hos­ giving towards the water scheme on the pitals boards, is not included. In addition, J ardine River? on six communities, education expenses are included in expenditure by the Department Mr. SULLIVAN: If the hon. member of Education, and as well many other public waits, he will possibly learn. I do not know services that are available and provided why he is pressing the hon. member for wholly for Aboriginal people, because of Isis so much in the one morning because, population density, are excluded. Further, as that hon. member goes along, he will many Aboriginal people present and receive see that the hon. member for Maryborough general public facilities and public services is not sincere. away from their communities. It is con­ Progressively, as certificates of entitlement servatively estimated that these activities are issued to include those people living involve the expenditure of a further only on reserve areas and those considered $2,200,000. When that figure is added to to be in need of assistance, the numbers the $4,500,000, it reveals that a total of of assisted Aborigines within the State are $6,700,000 has been expended directly on decreasing and will continue to decrease, Aboriginal welfare. and, as no special records are retained in During the present financial year, the pro­ any manner, where non-assisted people reside posed revenue expenditure allocated is in the general community it becomes increas­ $3,660,899; estimated departmental Welfare ing difficult to retain an absolutely correct Fund expenditure is $891,000; and Loan assessment of numbers. This in itself is an Fund allocation is $600,000. These amounts attitude towards true assimilation, as on exclude expenditure for hospitalisation and electoral rolls, hospital and social service education, and do not include any amount registers, and general business records, no of Commonwealth non-repayable grant funds, separate figures are retained of the Aborigines to which reference will be made later. and/ or Islander people, who form a significant part of the general community of the State. In Queensland, ten Government com­ munities, six church communities and four EXPENDITURE--GENERAL Government hostels are established. In addition, there are 28 reserve areas. On During the past financial year an amount these established communities, approxi­ of $4,500,000 was expended within the mately 9,000 people are living, but that Department of Aboriginal and Island Affairs number does not include Torres Strait directly in association with the department's Islanders, to whom I have referred work of maintaining communities, and in previously. general assistance, where required, for people of indigenous origin. Briefly, a break-up of STAFF this amount of $4,500,000 expended during Within the staff structure of the Depart­ 1967-68 comprised: ment of Aboriginal and Island Affairs there Revenue expenditure $3,000,000 are at present 260 salaried officers and approximately 450 wages employees. All Departmental Welfare Fund these people work directly towards the social Expenditure $900,000 and economic development of the Aboriginal Loan Funds and other general community. In addition, approximately assistance $540,000 60 church-community staff workers are For economic and staff reasons, during the employed in the interests of the general past few years church bodies sponsoring Aboriginal church communities to which they some Aboriginal communities have with­ are appointed. drawn from this field, and since July, Staff members, other than administrative 1960, the State has accepted total respons­ officers, include increasing numbers of field bility for six former church communities, officers, who, following appointment within with an increasing financial burden. The the department, whether of graduate three church communities most recently being standard or not, attend a special in-service administered within the department are the and orientation course that is conducted former Church of England communities of within the department. Lecturers in this Mitchel! River, Edward River and Lockhart special course include senior Government River, which came within the Department officers and those of the highest academic of Aboriginal and Island Affairs adminis­ repute. trative structure in May, 1967. COMMONWEALTH FUNDS ASSISTANCE The communities of Yarrabah, Mapoon and For many years the Queensland Govern­ Weipa are included in the six referred to ment alone carried the burden of Aboriginal above. and Islander welfare through departmental While the department continues to con­ Vote expenditure, Aboriginal Welfare Fund tribute to the maintenance, training and expenditure, and Loan Funds allocation. An progressive development of the Aboriginal ever-increasing burden is being placed on people to the maximum extent of funds State funds, although it is appreciated that, available, it is pointed out that the figure with income derived from pastoral and other of $4,500,000 does not truly reflect the total industrial activities, the people themselves actual expenditure, as the expenditure on contribute towards their own support to a community hospitalisation, where it occurs certain extent. 1764 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

It is pleasing to be able to mention now pastoral inspector-manager, which allows that, following the recent referendum oversight of Central Queensland properties decision some 18 months ago, the Com­ and the implementation of a progressive pro­ monwealth Government has made available gramme of stock development and improve­ certain funds towards Aboriginal welfare. I ments on properties in northern areas and in refer the Committee to an earlier statement Cape York Peninsula. As at 30 September, that I made that, following an announce­ 1968, on Woorabinda, in the Central Queens­ ment by the Commonwealth Treasurer in land area, a beef herd of approximately 2,700, his Budget speech, the Commonwealth including 1,300 breeders, is established. On Parliament would be asked to appropriate Foleyvale, on the Mackenzie River and an amount of $10,000,000 during the present adjunct properties, 3,300 head of stock are year, half of which would be allocated in being fattened, including 2,700 head of bul­ non-repayable grants directly towards assist­ locks and steers. Foleyvale stock numbers ing State Aboriginal Welfare in housing. vary according to sales conducted. health and education. The other half of The number of stock depastured on other $5,000,000 would be constituted as a capital departmental properties comprise- fund for assisting Aboriginal enterprises, either corporate or individual. Head 6,300 Cross-branded and check~ It is advised that the amount allotted to counted at the end September, 1968- Mitchell River Queensland out of the $5,000,000 in non­ 717 Et! ward River repayable grants is $1,450,000. The 738 Weipa allocation is as follows:- 700 Cherbourg 933 Bamaga Housing $800,000 600 . . Palm Island Yarrabah Health $325,000 200 Education $325,000 Some of these figures differ from the annual These amounts are additional to normal report figures published to the end of June expenditure, and are not a substitute in any last, as sales were conducted and/or brand­ manner for State expenditure on Aboriginal ings added. and Island Affairs by the Queensland Gov­ In the Central Queensland area the general ernment. It must be agreed that the Queens­ programme followed allows for breeding to land Government allocation is considerable be carried out on Woorabinda and the male when it is compared with those of other turn-off fattened on Foleyvale, Woorabinda States and the Northern Territory. and Foleyvale are run conjointly. Foleyvale, Briefly, it is envisaged that the housing with improvements already carried out and programme for Queensland will include being capable of fattening stock in excess of initial housing projects on the Cape York the male turn-off from Woorabinda, is also Peninsula and Torres Strait Islands reserve stocked with purchased store bullocks. areas, additional housing within the Recently the departmenrt also acquired boundaries of a number of cities and towns the area known as the Zamia Creek Depot and the erection of homes within th~ block, comprising approximately 7,000 acres boundaries of a number of town areas on of improved pasture, which is allowed to allotments already secured and held by the mature before use. This is most valuable as Department of Aboriginal and Island Affairs. a fattening area for stores turned off from I might say that within a few days, per­ northern breeding properties. This was the haps towards the end of this week, I hope depot block for Areas 1 and 2 of the briga­ to be in a position to make an announcement low development scheme. It is a magnificent about certain houses that we have procured fattening block and, I might say, it was on to house Aborigines in certain localities. I the recommendation of the hon. member for request hon. members not to ask me where Mackenzie that the purchase was made. The they are, because that information will be hon. member was aware of the necessity to announced later in the week. have fattening country associated with breed­ ing country. The health allocation will provide hospital and allied capital works, while the education MITCHELL RIVER AND OTHER NORTHERN allotment will provide extra school facilities. AREAS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMMES In regard to capital-fund projects, either Since mid-1967, when Mitchell River, corporate or individual, the amount of Edward River and Lockhart River were $5,000,000 to be made available is to oper­ taken over for administration purposes at ate on the basis of projects which the th~ request of the diocese of Carpentaria, a Commonwealth Government considers to be progressive programme of improvements has economically viable and which are recom- been formulated, with particular stress at present being placed on improvements and ~nded by the particular States. fencing generally on Mitchell River, and STOCK now with an accelerating attitude toward Within the department, stock-raising as a Edward River and Lockhart River. major enterprise to develqp economic via­ To the present date, 300 breeders of new bility on reserves is actively pursued. Pastoral blood have been introduced to the Mitchell activities are also a training field for those River herd and 100 breeders to Edward who wish to follow the particular calling. The River. Sixty-one Brahman-cross bulls of department's activities are co-ordinated by a approximately seven-eighth Brahman strain Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1765 have been secured for Mitchell River, and 20 existing establishments, efforts are being similar bulls for Edward River. Ten Brahman made to alleviate the plight of those people cross bulls have been added to the Weipa living on the fringes of our society. herd. It is possible to foresee in the very near Much has been said about housing on and future, with the gradual upgrading of the in fringe areas. Rather, the phrase should Mitchell River herd, which at present includes be "Jack of housing". However, adequate approximately 2,000 breeders, that a mini­ and suitable housing demands obligations of mum figure of 3,000 herd cows will soon be the recipient, and it is most difficult to carried there. This will allow of an effective formulate plans and extend them and main­ annual turn-off of bullocks, some for sale tain them away from supervision, at a at store stock sales in the northern areas standard equal to their original quality. and the remainder for fattening and ultimate turn-off through their transfer to Foleyvale As a result of an offer made to local and Zamia Creek. authorities whereby the Queensland Govern­ During the past financial year, the value ment guaranteed local authorities against of livestock sold by the department approx­ losses sustained through erecting accom­ imated $250,000, excluding beef slaughtered modation for people of indigenous origin, for community purposes. Some interesting three houses have been completed at figures with regard to stock turn-off, with St. George and another is in the course particular reference to Foleyvale, are quoted of construction and nearing completion. At to show the gradual build-up of sales arranged Bowen, two houses are in the course of in excess of local requirements. I again pay construction. Numbers of other local a compliment in this regard to the hon. authorities have submitted loan programmes member for Mackenzie, who acted as requests. The St. George homes are a departmental cattle adviser for 10 years. pilot venture in liaison between the Balonne Shire Council and the Director of These figures will indicate that the hon. Aboriginal and Island Affairs, and the three member gave very good advice in the homes that are occupied in St. George are building up of these properties for cattle­ a credit both to the scheme and to their breeding and fattening. occupants.

Between 1952 and 1957, turn-on· in bullocks We all agree that housing of people of averaged . . . .18,000 Aboriginal and/ or Islander extraction living 1957-58 sales netted 13,000 1958-59 sales netted 58,000 on the fringe of towns and cities is essential. 1959-60 sales netted 48,000 We are aware that the need for adequate 1960-

EDUCATION Service, suitable employment opportunities Hon. members are aware that on the are offered away from the traditional callings Government communities of Cherbourg, that the Aboriginal people have followed. Woorabinda, Palm Island, Yarrabah, Bamaga Every opportunity is taken to raise the and Weipa, schools are conducted under aspiration level of Aboriginal scholars and the auspices of the Department of Educa­ so broaden their experience of employment tion. Some 1,400 children attend these opportunity. In this manner, throughout schools, including a number of students at a period of 12 months a minimum of 300 Thursday Island. children are placed in suitable employment. It is expected that in the due progress It is expected that great benefit will accrue of time, and as staff and financial pressures to the young selected students who are allow, Department of Education sponsorship brought to the metropolitan area each year will extend to other Peninsula Government to undertake a careers-counselling programme communities to include Mitchell River, Lock­ and so gain first-hand knowledge of the hart River and Edward River, where some various careers offering. 280 children are attending school. EMPLOYMENT Further, there are approximately 1,500 Much can be spoken at length on employ­ children attending schools in the Torres ment and employment opportunity. Special Strait and church-sponsored northern com­ reference is made to certain aspects of munities, and 150 attend the convent school employment in the department's annual at Palm Island. At Palm Island a new con­ report and I propose to mention only a few vent school for community residents is near­ significant facts as they apply generally. ing completion, together with a residence They are- for the teaching sisters, by subsidy agree­ ment with the Department of Aboriginal (1) During the past year the Station and Island Affairs. Hands Award-State was varied in that any references to Aborigines are now Throughout the State there are approx­ deleted from the terms and definitions imately 200 assisted Aborigines attending sec­ of the award. ondary school, and a further 150 Torres (2) At present 80 per cent. of assisted Strait Islanders attend secondary school. Aborigines employed in the pastoral indus­ These include approximately 30 girls attend­ try are in receipt of award wages. It is ing boarding schools throughout the State conceded that there may always be a from church and Government-sponsored percentage for whom employment and communities of the Cape York area and other rates of payment will require to be centres. negotiated, and these people are being The department has continued its special catered for in terms of the Aboriginal education and training programme ifor regulations. Islander teachers and at present 11 are (3) The marine industry in Torres attending, at the Teachers' College, Bris­ Strait continues to be the main avenue bane, a special course of 12 months' dura­ of employment opportunities for Islanders. tion arranged by the Department of (4) All Islanders employed on pearl cul­ Education. Twenty-nine teachers have ture projects are employed at the basic rate completed this course and returned to their applicable on the same terms as other respective communities. The department employees. also conducts annual refresher seminars at Thursday Island for Islander teachers, and (5) The Weipa bauxite employment these special refresher courses will continue avenue provides permanent employment during the summer vacation of 1968-69. for 50 men, and this number varies with extra employment opportunity available Kindercraft training is also being under­ on a casual basis. taken by selected young ladies. Four are (6) The prawn and fish-processing at present attending a course in the metro­ development in the Gulf and Penin­ politan area, and 10 have completed their sula area is providing avenues of special courses and returned to their employment at ruling rates for increasing communities. numbers of Aboriginal and Islander Away from the fundamental aspects of people, especially girls whose ~revious education, the Department of Aboriginal and employment opportunity was restncted. Island Affairs, in conjunction with the Com­ (7) With further development of fish­ monwealth Department of Labour and processing facilities in the Gulf, employ­ National Service, has endeavoured during ment opportunities will increase. the past few years to provide young Abor­ SOCIAL ASPECTS iginal people of school-leaving age with employment opportunities in keeping with I do not propose to speak at length on social their scholastic attainment and ability. welfare and other aspects of Aboriginal Secondary-school performance of students community life, but I do propose to speak from all communities is carefully studied, on the social development of the people. and steps are taken to secure vocational It has been mentioned previously that guidance assessment so that, after discussion the social development of the Aboriginal with officers of the Department of National people is gradual but progressive. However, Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1767 during the last decade, and with the impetus I make brief reference, also, to the that current legislation has given the people, Aboriginal Relics Preservation Act, which a feeling towards development, both was promulgated recently. economically and socially, that warrants recog­ nition and encouragement of this very signifi­ The Aboriginal Relics Preservation Act cant portion of the State's population, which of 1967 provides for the preservation the Aboriginal people comprise, is being of anthropological, ethnological, archaeo­ fostered in the people themselves. This is logical and prehistoric Abmiginal relics and not so much as members of isolated com­ was proclaimed on 27 May, 1967. munities, which are self-sufficient to a The aims of the Act are to preserve degree, but as members of developed com­ and protect those things pertaining to munities within the social structure of the Aboriginal culture and history, and penalties State. are provided to protect relics from vandalism Aboriginal communities, in fact, are not and other unauthorised interference. Pro­ unlike towns of comparative size. In older­ vision is made for the appointment of established communities this is apparent with inspectors and, in an honorary capacity, the amenities provided, and endeavours are wardens to bring about this protection, and being made to extend this development in the powers of an inspector can extend to the more isolated areas. It can be claimed the apprehension of any person committing that, in a period of 80 years, a full cycle an offence against the Act. has occurred, in that at present the general An important feature of this legislation is population of the indigenous people is the formation of an advisory committee con­ approximately equal to that estimated at the sisting of- time of the first real contact with civilisation. (a) The Director of Aboriginal and Island Hon. members will agree that the depart­ Affairs; ment is striving its utmost to encourage the (b) The Professor of Anthropology and progressive development of Aboriginal and Sociology at the Queensland University; Islander Queenslanders, and it must not be (c) The Director of the Queensland thought that the department is in any way Museum; and complacent. Indeed, it is particularly aware of the vast amount of work entailed and (d) One or more persons nominated by to be completed in endeavouring to develop the Minister as he determines from time the people socially and economically. The to time. problem of co-ordinating work in areas so The function of the committee is to advise vast! y separated is great. the Minister on all matters pertinent to the In spite of setbacks the department con­ objects of the Act, including, inter alia, the tinues to progress, and it is establishing within anthropological value and significance of a the people themselves and within the communi­ relic or of an area which might be declared ties generally a spirit of self-help, a spirit of as a site, or of acquiring a particular relic, movement away from the earlier paternalis­ and the extent of an area which might be tic approach, and the statutory council bodies resumed or, as the case may be, acquired elected in communities are responding mag­ for preservation as an Aboriginal site. nificently in accepting responsibilities towards self-help that this Parliament has conferred FUTURE PLANS upon them by recent legislation. A number of projects are outlined and are Opposition Members interjected. contained in an immediate future develop­ ment programme on Government com­ Mr. SULLIVAN: I thought for a moment munities. The individual listings of projects that I was reading it very well. comprise industrial development but are stated as they are accessory factors on which Mr. Houston: It would be all right if are based social development of the people. you understood it. (a) Northern Peninsula area: Mr. SULUVAN: The question is: does the hon. member? Plans have been prepared for a new water­ supply scheme to provide water for the com­ Mr. Houston: Yes. munities of Bamaga, Cowal Creek, Umagico and New Mapoon, and also for major irri· Mr. SULLIVAN: That is all right, then. gation farming. This was the one that the That is all he has to worry about. hon. member for Maryborough was inquiring about. He will be happy about this. Water Indeed, the tremendous advance made by will be pumped from the Jardine River Aboriginal councillors and councils in recent through 12-inch asbestos-cement piping to years is a source of pride. As fellow Queens­ storage facilities, and then reticulated to com­ landers, we can all feel proud of it. munity houses. A complete and adequate water supply will be provided for approxi­ POINTS FOR SPECIAL MENTION mately 1,300 people. The project in the initial Points worthy of special mention include stage will allow for the irrigation of 200 proposed developments in the immediate acres of cultivation. When funds are avail­ future in northern community areas. able, this programme will be developed. 1768 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

(b) Weipa-Electricity: (g) Thursday Island and Cape York Completion of 240-volt A.C. installations Peninsula properties generally: to all community residences will also allow Basic equipment has been purchased to for limited industrial use. provide modern, single side band radio com­ munication throughout the area in the Development of the beef-stock breeding immediate future. The installation will in­ programme includes the acquisition of a clude a base station at Thursday Island number of Brahman bulls for herd-improve­ and 24 outstations. This facility will allow ment purposes. efficient radio communication from the base 1\fr. Houston: Where are they getting the station at Thursday Island to Gulf com­ power for Weipa, from the company or a munities, which, with present facilities, suffer separate station? interference from atmospheric conditions. Within the staff establishment of the Mr. SULUVAN: I think we are putting in Department, a manager-pastoral inspector our own plants. I do not want to mislead the has been appointed to co-ordinate stock work hon. member, but I understand we are pro­ in all communities. and in addition another viding our own plants. inspector attached to the Brisbane office (c) Edward River: staff has been appointed to allow the full co-ordination of general administration of Installation of a battery of spears and all communities. diesel-pump units to provide a reticulated water supply to all community homes is near­ (h) Cash Economy on Communities: ing completion. A new cold ;oom has While the northern and Peninsula com­ recently been installed with butcher-shop mun:ties of Bamaga, Mitchell River, Edward facilities. River, Lockhart River and Weipa have functioned on a cash economy basis, the (d) Mitchell River and Bamaga-Electricity: people in southern communities have re­ At Bamaga, plans are under way for pro­ ceived a living on the basis of a small cash vision of a power-generating plant 240-volt component with other needs provided, in­ A.C. This will ensure that electricity is cluding a full ration scale and clothing reticulated to community homes and will also issues for all family members. be available for industrial purposes. A similar scheme is being undertaken for Mitchell During the past year, a total cash economy River. basis of payment for work performed has been introduced at Yarrabah, Cherbourg and Mr. Houston: What industries did you have Woorabinda, and although the system is in mind? presently in a transitional stage it is function­ ing very well. The supervision of families Mr. SULUVAN: I might mention that I is undertaken to ensure that no hardship is intend to visit the area after this session, in imposed, particularly on children and family company with the Director of Aboriginal and dependants. Island Affairs and the Chief Commissioner of The Palm Island community is currently Lands, who is now permanent head of that being converted to a similar state of cash department, and we will no doubt look at economy. these things. The hon. member will appre­ ciate that 1 have been in charge of the depart­ The attitude in encouraging all community ment for only a short while, and that I will residents within the State towards being be better informed when presenting these self-reliant in the provision of their own Estimates next year. economic welfare while members of Aboriginal communities is being adopted to (e) Lockhart River: enable the gap that faces the Aboriginal Action is presently being taken to re-locate people and family members who leave total­ the Lockhart River community at a new site welfare conditions and move into the general at Iron Range. The new location will include community to be bridged. In this way, an administration block embracing a retail former members of established Aboriginal store and butcher shop. Twenty community communities will not have to cope with residences and six staff houses are nearing problems with which, to a major degree, completion. Generally, reticulated water they are not already familiar. supply to all residences is being provided. The response of the people in the southern Tenders have been invited for a new hospital, communities to the change-over has been school and additional community residences favourable. The system is proving success­ to complete the totally new location. ful in that appreciation of values, monetary (f) Yarrabah: or otherwise, is evident in the majority Development of road access over the of households. Murray Prior Range from Yarrabah to On 22 August, In the Address-in-Reply Gordonvale is progressing and will provide an debate, the Leader of the Opposition referred accessory to the present use of water trans­ to Aboriginal Queens!anders and their parti­ port for carrying goods and passengers from cipation in development undertaken by Cairns to Yarrabah. The new road will open Comalco in the Weipa area. There is no up Yarrabah to a degree previously not doubt that his information is at variance possible. with the actual situation. Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1769

At the Weipa South community the total offering. I feel that Comalco is playing its number of employable Aboriginal males is part in that locality in the employment of 67, and, of this total, Comalco and its Aborigines. subsidiary subcontractors are presently em­ ploying 48, as well as approximately 15 Mr. Houston: How long have they had females on full-time domestic duties. In those employees? addition, the company employs three Torres Mr. SULLIVAN: As I said, some have Strait Islanders. The fortnightly pay that is been there ever since the company started received by the male employees by Comalco in the Weipa South community amounts to operations. approximately $2,400, and their average Opposition Members interjected. weekly rate amounts to $50.13. Mr. SULLIVAN: I want to push ahead It is also interesting, and indicative of the with my speech, because I want to make as interest that Comalco has taken in encourag­ much time as possible available to hon. ing Aborigines to participate, to note that members to make their contributions. 16 of the 48 Aborigines who are presently employed are original employees of the I now want to refer to a statement made company since it began its operations in the by the hon. member for Tablelands. His area, and they are virtually permanent actions and activities are of particular employees. The remainder have been re­ interest. Some of them, to say the least, employed on two or more occasions following could be considered as placing in jeopardy breakdowns in continuity of employment the good relationship that exists between the department and Aborigines throughout the for various reasons. State. I have here a photo-copy of an My department's officers work in close original letter held in the department, liaison with the company, and they report addressed by Mr. Wallis-Smith to Mr. Nigel that the personnel arrangements and con­ Pootchemunka, who was in the Cairns Base siderations implemented by the company for Hospital following an injury and was Aboriginal employment at Weipa are above apparently visited by Mr. Wallis-Smith. average when compared with those of other large employers of Aboriginal labour through­ Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: I rise to a point of out the State. order. I cannot hear exactly what the Minister is saying as he is speaking with his heact I also point out that Comalco utilises sub­ down. I think he said that I visited a certain contractors in its . fields of endeavour and, person at the Cairns Hospital. Is that correct? as a matter of policy, insists that they utilise Aboriginal labour that is available locally Mr. SULUVAN: Yes, that is right-Mr. and that is ready and willing as well as Pootchemunka. being able to reasonably perform the Mr. WALU5-SMITH: Irrespective of particular function. From this, hon. members whether this comes from the department, the will be aware that the income from Comalco Director or anyone else, it is entirely untrue. alone has quite dramatically changed the I have never visited the person mentioned entire economic outlook of the Weipa South at the Cairns Base Hospital or anywhere community and that every consideration is else. given these people for employment. In addition to the employment opportunity The CHAIRMAN: Order! ask the available from bauxite operations, prawning Minister to accept the hon. membcr·s denial. activities are pursued there. Some 11 males Mr. SULLIVAN: Apparently I must accept and 25 females follow this occupation, it, but this is evidence that we have before receiving normal award rates applicable to us. the particular function. The foregoing is but a brief picture. I Generaliy speaking, therefore, it can be have spoken for the Department of Aboriginal accepted that full employment is available and Island Affairs, but the work being under­ for all labour. However, I feel that I should taken by the department speaks for itself. be frank and state quite categorically that However, when others speak in commenda­ some social problems have been experienced tion I feel that special mention should be from time to time, mainly because of irregular made of it. I now refer to a recent report attendance patterns and, on some occasions, to the Australian Board of Missions by the failure to demonstrate a normal sense of chairman of that body, with special reference responsibility and attitude to the employer. to Aboriginal chaplaincies on six reserves Where services have been terminated in such visited between 28 July and 5 August last. instances, after a reasonable period the Of the six areas visited, namely, Lockhart employee has been given second, third and, River, Mitchell River, Edward River, Yarra­ in some cases, fourth and fifth chances, for bah, Palm Island and Woorabinda, mention re-employment by the bauxite interests. Every is made of commendation due to the Depart­ effort is made by the departmental officers and ment of Aboriginal and Island Affairs of the the councillors of the community to Queensland Government on the magnitude of encourage Aboriginal residents to take the its efforts to provide better conditions for the fullest advantage of all work opportunities 3,350 people in the six areas visited. 1770 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Particular reference is made to staff, and most hon. members will discuss the Depart­ the fact is recorded that 21 former mission­ ment of Aboriginal and Island Affairs rather aries are now employed as State officers than land matters. in the areas referred to, as well as numbers Firstly, allow me, on behalf of the Oppo.si­ in other places not visited. A general state­ tion, to welcome to the Chamber Mr. J1m ment is made on improved living standards, Blake, the hon. member for Isis. I am buildings and plant, chaplains generally, and in complete disagreement with the Minister, co-operation received from departmental because I feel that Mr. Blake will be here officers and religious denominations. when we are looking in retrospect at the The report is covered by a letter from Minister's period in Parliament. There is Rev. Canon F. M. Coaldrake, M.A., Chair­ no doubt that the good sense exhibited by man, Australian Board of Missions of the the electors of Isis will be reflected through­ General Synod of the Church of England out the State at the next State elections. in Australia which, inter alia, states- I suggest that the Minister holding this portfolio has shown a complete disregard "The Board considered my report and for the welfare of the great majority of then resolved: 'That a letter of commenda­ Queenslanders, and he also will come under tion be sent to Mr. P. Killoran, Director the condemnation of the electors when they of Aboriginal and Island Affairs noting are given the opportunity to express their with extreme pleasure the progress being views. made by the Department in its work among the Aborigines in Queensland.' " Mr. Sullivan: Are you talking about me? As the Minister who has recently accepted Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, and your colleagues. the responsibility of administering the Depart­ ment of Aboriginal and Island Affairs, let Mr. Sullivan: I challenge you to find the me say how pleasing it is to read such best man you can and send him out to words of commendation. I know, and all Condamine. other hon. members know, the wonderful Mr. HOUSTON: It is not a matter of work that Mr. Killoran, as Director of Abori­ finding the best man we can. We were ginal and Island Affairs, has done over very fortunate to have Jim Blake; he was the years, and we commend him for the a wonderful candidate, and I pay full tribute manner in which he has carried out his to his ability. The Minister and you, Mr. duties. He is dedicated to his work and Hooper, will, as time passes, see his worth to the welfare of these people and, as a as a representative of his area. The only result, they will benefit considerably. thing that I regret is that the Government Mr. Davies: The Government is not help­ saw fit to delay the by-election for such ing him enough. a long time and thus deprive the people of Isis of a direct vote in this Assembly. Mr. SULLIVAN: The hon. member for I regret that very much, and I trust that Maryborough persists in interjecting. What when such an occasion next arises the seat I have put before the Committee this morn­ is filled quickly. ing gives the complete lie to any criticism in that regard. As I said before, we do The Minister compared the Government's not take the hon. member for Maryborough drought-relief efforts with those of Labour seriously. Governments. I am afraid that the Minister did not do his homework very well. In I am sure that being in charge of the my trips to rural areas, which have been Department of Aboriginal and Island Affairs numerous and extensive, I found even in will be of great interest to me and will prove 1958 that many people were thankful for a great challenge. I assure the Committee what Labour Governments had done during that I shall accept this challenge as I have previous droughts. We do not deny the accepted a similar challenge relative to the Minister's claim that the last drought was Department of Lands. the worst so far experienced in this State, but, that being so, one would have expected Because of the attitude adopted by this the Government to do something to help those Government over the past 11 years towards affected by it. One thing that no Labour Aboriginal and Island people, and with the Government ever did was to cry, "We are manner in which Mr. Killoran and the doing something about it" and at the same officers of his department have carried out time increase rail freights, as hon. members their duties, those people are receiving a opposite did in 1964 and 1966. Let us much better deal now than they did 11 years face facts. When country people were sorely ago. hit by the ravages of drought the Government Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the endeavoured to take the last penny-and Opposition) (12.49 p.m.): I am sure that certainly the last cent-from them. Now all hon. member" hav,e listened with great the Government is trying to climb back interest to the Minister's introduction of on the election band wagon by reducing his Estimates. I regret that the time for freights. <11 discussing them is so short. The Minister The Minister dealt at some length with said that land matters can be discussed the Department of Aboriginal and Island when he introduces the Land Acts Amend­ Affairs, in the course of which he saw mend Bill, so I surmise that in this debate fit to reply to what I said on this subject Supply (26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1771 during the Address-in-Reply debate. I do I hope, sewerage, surely they really are towns not retract what I then said. When the and they should be provided with the amen­ Bill dealing with Comalco was before Parlia­ ities that usually go with a town. ment the Minister in charge of it said that the company would employ every available In most settlements, one finds that there person who sought employment. When I is no industry. The men who work with cattle visited the company's area, very few local have something to do; others act as part of people were employed by it. I do not the Police Force but are not paid anywhere deny that the figures given by the Minister near a policeman's wages; others work there are correct, but it could be a case of figures in an endeavour to teach the children, but suiting the situation at this point of time. they do not get teachers' wages. Those people I shall be interested to find out, when I ask a question to this effect, exactly how long are not being treated in the same way as are these people have been employed and on people in other sections of the community, what types of work they are engaged. and I believe that they should be. The Minister can take notice that we will In many cases, too, settlements are in iso­ be asking some searching questions on this lated areas. The hon. member for Table­ matter. lands can speak with greater authority than The facts are that the Government is I can about settlements and communities in still treating Aborigines and Torres Strait his electorate, and perhaps the hon. member Islanders as second-rate citizens and is not for Cook could speak with more authority giving them the citizenship rights for which than I could relative to settlements in his the people of Australia voted overwhelm­ area. However, the pattern is similar. ingly only a few short years ago. Although it is certainly true that there is legislation While I am speaking of the electorate of on the Statute Books of both this State Cook, let me condemn the Government for and the Commonwealth g1vmg virtually its attitude in refusing accredited persons the equal citizenship rights to Aborigines and opportunity to visit the indigenous people Torres Strait Islanders, the State Govern­ and talk to them. I believe that the Govern­ ment denies this to them. The Government ment's refusal to let people other than mem­ tries to tell these people to whom they can bers of Parliament go to these areas and talk and to what they can listen. It tries speak on political matters with the indi­ to tell them what work they can do and genous people was completely wrong. Of exactly what they must do with every moment course the Government does not need to send of their lives. its candidates there as candidates. It hunts round till it finds someone whom it thinks it I have no quarrel with the State's taking can send there legally and who can dis­ over some Aboriginal communities from the seminate political propaganda and, at the churches. Unfortunately, because of lack of same time, carry out his duties as a public finance, various churches could not carry servant. I make no apology for saying that. out the work that I believe should be done in assisting Aborigines and Torres Strait Mr. Ahern: Are you taking about Jim Islanders to become full citizens of the Bidner? State and the Commonwealth. In saying that I have no fight with the taking over of these Mr. HOUSTON: I am talking about Jim communities, I am in no way suggesting Bidner, if the cap fits him. There could be that the churches have not done a very fine others, but he is one. The position in that job within their financial capacities. How­ area shows the extent to which the Country ever, they have long since ceased to be Party has degenerated over the past few years. able to shoulder this responsibility. I remember coming into this Chamber and hearing Otto Madsen, Ernie Evans and Lloyd Mr. R. Jones: That was the accepted prac­ Roberts speaking as Country Party members. tice up till a few years ago. They had something inside them. They knew exactly what they believed the people in Mr. HOUSTON: That is right. Time will country areas of Queensland wanted. They show, I think, that fast action was needed. were the men whom I recognised as true The Minister is now telling the Committee Country Party members. Today one does not what the Government intends to do for these find that. The Country Party candidate for people; but what the people themselves want Cook is a man who is a discarded member is important, too. The great majority of them of the A.L.P. do not want to sit round and live on social service payments or rely on someone else to The CHAIRMAN: Order! give them the things they need. The idea of Mr. HOUSTON: He wanted to run as an trying to make stockmen out of all of them A.L.P. candidate, but the A.L.P. decided that seems to me to be an isolated approach to he was not worthy to represent the party. the problem. The CHAmMAN: Order! I do no(.like the term "settlement" par­ ticularly, either. When a settlement becomes Mr. Sulliv:m: He decided that, didn't he? a town, the Government should recognise that. After all, if settlements are to be pro­ Mr. HOUSTON: The A.L.P. decided it. He vided with a water supply, electric light, and, had his nomination in to run as an A.L.P. 1772 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

candidate, but the party said, "You are not who are supposed to be free citizens? Why of our tribe. You are not sincere enough should the Government say to them, "You for us." cannot hear this man air his views on any [Sitting suspended from I to 2.15 p.m.] matters"? What right has the Minister, or the Government, to tell any citizen of this Mr. HOUSTON: Dealing further with the country whom he can or cannot hear? I refusal of the Government to allow political say that the Government is doing this only candidates or others to visit the place of to save its own political hide. living of Aborigines and Torres Strait Mr. Sullivan: I will give you the answer. Islanders and talk to them, if these people are given the full and free right to vote, Mr. HOUSTON: I do not care what the surely we do not want them voting on Minister's answer is; he cannot get over the what they hear from one party only, and basic fact that this ban exists, despite the I do not believe that they should vote only Government's previous boasting-and the on what they hear during the heat of an Minister boasted of it again on this occasion election campaign. I think that is denying -that Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders them of one of their rights as free citizens are in fact free citizens-in fact, first-class of this State and nation-the right to hear all citizens, as my Deputy Leader reminds me sides of a question. -and I agree that they should be. Let us We know that one Country Party candidate, treat them as that. Do not let us treat them because of the nature of his employment, has as second-class citizens, or babes, or as people the right to go freely into these areas. Admit­ without the mentality to understand what is tedly he goes there in the course of his going on and to make up their own minds on employment and I do not deny him the right it. to carry out his duties. But there is nothing The Government is making all kinds of to stop him whilst he is there from disseminat­ assumptions; it is assuming that these people ing political propaganda, and if he is the do not understand; that they have not the type of person I think he is he would cer­ intelligence to distinguish right from wrong tainly take advantage, as a political candidate. or truth from lies. What right has the of being there in the course of his duties. Minister, the Government, or anyone else, My main argument, however, is that we are to assume these things? I say that if these denying these people the rights of ordinary people are first-class citizens with the right free citizens in the true sense of the word, to vote, they should have the right to hear and I condemn the Government's attitude what is to be said on these and other matters. in language as strong as it is possible to Once the Australian Labour Party, or the use in this Assembly. Liberal Party or the Country Party, All people who are entitled to vote should annvc~nces that it is putting forward a certain have the right to hear the various views candidate, he or she should have the right that may be expressed by those associated to talk to any person who has the privilege with all political parties. The way this of voting at an election. To me, that right Government is carrying on, one would think is a fundamental one, and no statement made it was a crime to belong to a political party. by the Minister or other Government mem­ One would think it was wrong for candidates bers will convince me otherwise. to express any views. Perhaps the Govern­ I say to the Government that it should ment is afaid that we might say something show its faith in these people by allowing that is not to its credit. them to make their own judgments. Let the Minister say why this ban is neces­ Naturally, the Australian Labour Party is sary, and why it is necessary to institute a a responsible party and would not say things type of fatherly protection for some citizens to these people that are detrimental to the in our community whilst the Australian interests of the State, but most probably people as a whole enjoy complete freedom. we would put before them the true facts Mr. Sullivan: Don't worry about that; I about many matters on which they may not will certainly answer it in my reply, and I be presently well informed. We do that will show how ill-informed you, as Leader with every other citizen, so, if the Minister of the Opposition, are. is going to tell us what he does for these people, let him treat them as he treats any !\'lr. HOUSTON: Any person who is other section of the community. selected as a candidate for the Australian In fact, the Minister's actions show that Labour Party has no right to go into any all he is interested in is making stockmen Aboriginal settlement. out of our coloured people. I think that I Mr. Sullivan: I will tell you the reason for know these people even better than the that when I am replying. Minister does, and from my knowledge of them I should say that there are many Mr. HOUSTON: I do not care what the who could fill any position in our com­ Minister's reasons are. There is no law in munity. I do not want to name individuals, this State to stop an A.L.P. candidate from but many of them have shown that they can talking to any other member of the com­ live what we may call the white man's way munity on any political matter, nor should of life. Many of us have met and known there be. Why then should the Government those who have made a great success of their set itself up as a protector of these people, careers. We on this side of the Chamber Supply (26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1773 have a very high regard for their capacity demnation of the Government's policy at to look after themselves, and the idea of Weipa is that there are no other industries trying to make stockmen out of all of them to provide employment for the local people. is not in their best interests. Mr. Sullivan: If you had had your way, In addition, as I have said before, the Comalco would not be there. communities in which these people live Mr. HOUSTON: That is a lot of nonsense. should be termed "towns". Let us get right away from the idea of using words that Mr. Sullivan: It is not nonsense. suggest they are compounds or reserves. Mr. HOUSTON: It is not true. Surely the people who live in those areas should be trained to take their places in the Mr. Sullivan: It would not have been general community. In far too many of there, and you know it. those areas the Department of Education Mr. HOUSTON: Of course it would. does not even control the schools. In others we find that the medical services that are The Government boasts about Weipa, but provided are well below the standard that is it had virtually nothing to do other than to accepted by other sections of the community. follow Labour's planning and continue what Labour had already started. The Minister has said that the Government will be providing water facilities and electric Before my time expires, I wish to refer to light for these communities. What about residential blocks in the City of Brisbane. communications in general? For months on The Government has boasted about helping end a number of them are isolated from the home-builders, but blocks of land at Tarra­ outside world. If a town populated by white gindi subdivided by the department were sold Australians, or white Queenslanders was in for $5,000, $4,900, $5,000, and $5,250. The a similar situation the Governmen't would lowest-priced block cost $2,400. How does chase the 400 or 500 votes that could be the Minister expect an ordinary person to obtained in it by laying air strips and con­ own a home when he has to pay such a price structing roads. The Government boasts for land? Government members call them­ about the roads that it has constructed· but selves "anti-socialists" and say that they do in wet weather how can anybody g~t to not believe in Government competition, but Edward River and Mitchell River, and, to a the Government is competing with the land lesser extent, to Weipa? Those centres are developers and keeping land prices sky high. completely isolated at times, and there are If the Government handled this land properly many others. it would put it on the market at the cost of development, not at the price a land developer Mr. Sunivan: When you were the would be expected to charge and make a sub­ Government people had a job to get to stantial profit for those who have invested in St. George by road in wet weather. the land-development project. I condemn the Government for its money-making attitude Mr. HOUSTON: That is very true and I when selling land to needy people. It is am not denying that fact. But the Govern­ absolutely wrong. ment has boasted about constructing roads. I do not deny that the Government has done A Government Member: What about that, but it has sectionalised. In effect it council land? has said to certain people, "We will not give you a road; we are not interested in you". Mr. HOUSTON: The land that the council The Government has talked about construct­ subdivides is already freehold land, but the ing a road to a place just outside Cairns. land to which I am referring was owned by We have heard talk about it for a long time. the State and did not cost the Government Before the last three elections we heard the anything. The only cost involved is the Government say that it would construct that cost of development, yet the Government is road. However, like many other statements charging exactly the same prices-in some the Government has made, this one was cases higher prices-than private sub­ made purely as an election stunt. dividers recently charged for land nearby. The Government is maintaining the high The Government is making only a token prices of land in the City of Brisbane. That gesture to satisfy these people. Until it takes is completely wrong. positive action, until it helps these town­ (Time expired.) ships to become self-supporting by assistin<> them to gain industries such as those i~ Mr. TOMKINS (Roma) (2.29 p.m.): Mr. other townships and encourages the children Dean-- to go to school by providing teachers to Mr. Lonergan: We will have a good speech give them practical training, it will have now. accomplished nothing. How many houses, and so on, are built by outside people? I Mr. TOMKINS: The hon. member is right. asked the Minister by interjection what industries other than cattle-fattening were I congratulate the Minister for Lands on acquiring control of the Department of carried on in these areas, but he could not Aboriginal and Island Affairs. answer me. Other than a butcher shop and a store, there are very few. My main con- Honourable Members interjected. 1774 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Mr. Houston: They were working well, Dean): Order! There is too much cross-firing but how many did you see-five or six? in the Chamber. Mr. TOMKINS: Mr. Dean, I wish the Honourable Members interjected. Leader of the Opposition would be reason­ able. We were on a trip. We were con­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! tinually on the move, and we had no time I am having great difficulty in hearing the to observe these things thoroughly. We were hon. member speaking. at Weipa for only two hours, and the Leader Mr. TOMKINS: I congratulate the Minister of the Opposition was probably there for only on having this department attached to the half an hour. Lands portfolio. I can only assume that he Mr. Carey: Many Aboriginal workers was given this extra task because the Premier bought motor-cars after they started working believed that he was doing an excellent job at Weipa. in the Department of Lands. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. I was amazed at some of the statements Dean): Order! The hon. member for Albert made by the Leader of the Opposition. I will please refrain from interjecting. was a member of the party that visited the Torres Strait Islands, and I saw some of the Mr. TOMKINS: I want to deal with the things he spoke about. Torres Strait Islands that we visited. They ar{; based on Thursday Island. We visited Mr. Houston: Do you agree that election Yam, Murray, Darnley, Saibai and various candidates should be allowed to talk to these otlter islands, all under the control of the people? Department of Aboriginal and Island Affairs and, of course, Mr. Killoran. I went there Mr. TOMKINS: I am not coming in with a completely open mind and I wanted on that one. The Minister can reply to it. to find out just how our Government admin­ Mr. Houston: I want you to reply to it. isters in this type of situation. From what I observed, the Islanders are extremely well Mr. TOMKINS: I do not know what is loc;,ked after. The medical services are first going on in the area in question so far as this class. They have an extremely good hospital matter is concerned. Therefore, I will not on Thursday Island, which is in radio con­ reply to the question. tact with the various Torres Strait islands. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Bromley: How is the water situation on Thursday Island? Mr. TOMKINS: One statement made by the Leader of the Opposition really intrigued Mr. TOMKINS: I shall come to that me. He implied that Torres Strait Islanders, shortly. One way and another, I think that generally speaking, were not being brought the Islanders are extremely well fed and out, given a fair go, given equal opportunities, cared for. and so on. On the question of equal opportunities, Mr. Houston: Don't separate them. 1 which was raised by the Leader of the referred to Aborigines and Torres Strait Opposition, we could not find anybody who Islanders. wanted to leave any of these islands. They live there. They were brought up there. Mr. TOMKINS: Well, I am talking about When the Premier was talking to them they the Torres Strait Islanders. They are the sai-d, "We want more land to grow vegetables, ones I am referring to. and so on". He said, "Would you like I was one of the party that accompanied to go onto the mainland?" They said, "No. the present Premier when he was Minister We want to stay where we are". for Works and Housing and Minister in Mr. Houston: I don't want to shift them: charge of the Department of Aboriginal and I want to give them something to do Island Affairs. We visited Palm Island, there. Yarrabah, Weipa, Thursday Island, and the Torres Strait Islands. Mr. TOMKINS: These islands are very barren, with very little good land. They Mr. Houston: How many Aborigines did can grow vegetables, fruit and so on. Primary fOU see working at Weipa? school facilities are excellent on these Islands Mr. TOMKINS: We were on a quick and the Secondary department is on Thursday trip. Whenever I saw them they were Island for those male students wishing to working. continue their studies, and many take advan­ tage of this. The girl students go to Charters Mr. Houston: How many did you see? Tc.wers, Herberton, and also to Yeppoon Se..::ondary Schools. Mr. Carey: When I was there many of them were working. They were doing a very It is very difficult to establish in the good job. Islands any industry because of the nature of the soil in these islands and the fact Mr. TOMKINS: I did not count them, that many people leave their homes to but I am prepared to say that any I did find work elsewhere. To arrive at a see were working. decision on whether or not these people Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1775 are well looked after, I took the opportunity, continually walking over it. The same when we were on Daru Island, of accepting situation would apply if farming activities an invitation from one of the officers of were carried on anywhere in this area. the Commonwealth Department of Primary I believe that quite a lot could be done Industry to visit a place called Wipin, which there, and I should like to make some sug­ is about 50 miles inland in New Guinea. It gestions to the Minister, Mr. Killoran, and is under the control of the Commonwealth the new Chief Commissioner of Lands, who Government. We flew to this place. It is is now in charge of this activity. I am a rubber plantation where, in addition to quite sure that when they visit this area rubber, vegetables and pineapples are also they will see its possibilities for further grown. It has beautiful soil. When we development. The figures show that at landed, I was surprised to see no fewer than present there are only about 950 cattle in about 200 children come running out from this area. There is not the slightest doubt the trees. Here was a cleared area .in which in my mind that, with proper development, a school had been set up. The houses were many more cattle could be run here. of a poor type of construction-of local timber, coconut palms, and so on-and in Quite recently the Minister obtained con­ the middle of the area was the school. The siderable finance from the Commonwealth children lived in the buildings around the peri­ for the work of this department. It seems to meter of the area, and that is where they lived me that in going to the Commonwealth whilst attending school. They even cooked Government for a grant, or perhaps even for themselves. When I compared that with a loan, for the development of this area, he what happens in the Torres Strait islands I would have as good a case as the Govern­ felt that top marks should be given to ment had when seeking assistance for Queensland. With those 200 children were development of the brigalow lands. Surely approximately five dedicated teachers, but the development of really top-class country conditions were not good and did not com­ such as that in the Bamaga area, near the pare at all favourably with those to be satellite towns, would meet a lot of the found on our islands in Torres Strait. criticism raised by the Leader of the Opposition. It would form the basis of a We also made an inspection of another cattle-raising and stock industry, and it island, named Sidabadu. It is on the main­ would also provide an opportunity for land of New Guinea. The difference between expansion of the sawmilling industry. There the conditions applying there and on our is already a sawmill there, and there are own islands is also most marked. On ours, some very good rain forests nearby. If some there are Islanders living under good con­ of the Islanders could be encouraged to leave the Torres Strait islands and come to ditions. They have water, and on some Bamaga and build up the settlement there, islands have amenities such as picture shows, it could become a model for future settle­ and they are happy. Primary School facilities ments. I suggest to the Minister that he exist on all these islands, as I said before. might look into my suggestions when he They certainly have a problem in growing visits the area. sufficient vegetables, but they choose to stay I noticed that the Minister said in his there and, short of shifting them bodily, I introductory remarks that a water scheme had do not see how they could be moved. We been undertaken to reticulate water from have to live with that situation. the J ardine River to the Bamaga area, with The Bamaga-Mapoon area, at the north of the idea of irrigating about 200 acres. I the Peninsula, has become a series of satellite suggest that either a committee or the towns. In 1947 I am informed many Islanders Chief Commissioner of Lands should be were brought there from Saibai Island and a asked to investigate the possibility of pro­ satellite town was established. This is the viding a pasture improvement area. I have area that I believe is capable of great develop­ no doubt that some of the country could ment. There are now actually four places be ringbarked. Perhaps Tordon could be there, namely, New Mapoon, Bamaga, used there; the scrub certainly could be Umagico and Cowal Creek. Those pulled and burnt. The land would grow all four places have been set up as the grasses to which I referred earlier-para satellite towns, and they are progressing grass, siratro, Townsville lucerne, and so very well. At Bamaga a farm has been set up on-and would become an extremely good under Mr. Harris, who, I understand, has cattle area. been there for some years, and when one In my opinion, a company such as the looks at what has been done there, one Clausen shipping company could be of great cannot help but wonder how much more assistance by bringing in stock from the development could take place. At the farm settlement at Edward River and their taking at Bamaga are grasses such as para grass, fat cattle round the Cape to the markets at elephant grass, stylo, hamil grass, siratro, Cairns and Townsville. It might be better, bullrush millet, dolichos lab lab, and even taking the economics of the scheme into buffel grass, and I do not think that I have consideration, to set up a small meatworks in ever seen them growing better anywhere the area to supply Thursday Island. I cannot else. Townsville lucerne also gmws be sure about that, but I do suggest that extremely well there. It grows profusely the area should be developed as a pilot even at the school, where children have been area. I think it would mean a great deal 1776 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply to the people living there, and it would give the one that he made about me when I won the younger people an opportunity of develop­ my plebiscite. Everything the Minister ing a town of their own. touches seems to turn upside down, and I I notice that Thursday Island is under say, without fear of contradiction, that if he the control of an administrator, and I think keeps on as he is now his portfolio of Aborig­ he is responsible to Cabinet. I have never inal and Island Affairs will be upside down yet seen circumstances in which an admini­ as well. Considering the period that the Min­ strator has done as good a job as has an ister has held this portfolio, the fact that he ekcted shire council. Although I do not could not take his eyes off the prepared know how it could be brought into being, statement that he had, knowing that he had I suggest that a small shire council elected to read the written words and pronounce the by the people would do a better job than written syllables word for word and syllable an administrator. For example, the roads on for syllable, shows that he knows full well Thursday Island could well be improved, and that it would have been better had he con­ the town water supply position attended to, centrated on his portfolio of Lands rather and I think that a properly constituted council than on the one that we are discussing now. could do a great deal of good in this and Government Members interjected. other fields. I suggest to the Minister that he might give some consideration to my The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. suggestion and make some inquiries as to Dean): Order! There is too much noise in whether or not it is practicable. the Chamber. Before I resume my seat, I pay a tribute Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: I also draw attention to the work and thought that goes into the to the late arrival of the report on which we administration of the islands. They all have to base this debate. I received my have councils in charge of them, and the copy only this morning, when I arrived from work of the councillors is similar to that the North. This does not give me much of a done by shire councillors. They are respon­ chance to peruse it. The report was pre­ sible for the maintenance of law and order pared by the departmental officers, and I and for carrying out administrative work. pay tribute to many of them, but to be given Those people do a good job, and a great deal only 3;\- hours in which to peruse it is not of thought has been given over the years by fair or just to hon. members who are trying the Department of Aboriginal and Island to do their utmost for these people. Affairs to the implementation of the system. lt is only natural to expect that there will Mr. R. Jones: How are they elected? be much hardship and that many mistakes will be made, but one of the greatest mis­ Mr. TOMKINS: As far as I know, they takes made this morning was the one that are elected by democratic franchise. They caused me to rise to a point of order. I seem to represent the people. intend to spend a short time on this matter Mr. Wallis-Smith: No. and to read the letter that the Minister men­ tioned. The Minister need not have had it Mr. TOMKINS: In any case, it is the photostatted. I draw attention to the fact type of body that is required. The coun­ that, of the hundred of letters that I have cillors should represent the people on the written, I have apparently had one photo­ islands. statted-and I point out that sometimes I have waited for months to get a reply. It is I think that I have covered most of the like the question answered for the hon. points I wished to raise. I again compliment member for Townsville North. when a nice Mr. Killoran on the job he is doing. Under little innuendo was placed at the end of it his guidance, Palm Island, which at one about his being afraid of losing his seat. This stage had a rather doubtful reputation, has is the sort of rubbish that we have to put up become a fine settlement, and the Manager with as members of Parliament. It is not is doing a wonderful job. The set-up at good enough. Yarrabah, too, is very good, and there is a lot of good country near that settlement. I will read the letter that as the Minister said, has been photostatted. When I rose One way and another, I believe that the to a point of order I said that I had never Minister and his departmental officers ought met the gentleman in question, and I have to be very proud of what they have achieved. not. His name is Mr. Nigel Pootchemunka. They certainly have nothing to be ashamed of. The letter is addressed care of the Cairns Mr. WALUS-SMim (Tablelands) (2.44 Base Hospital, and reads- p.m.): I do not think that hon. members "Dear Nigel, expected to have an opportunity of discussing "At long last I have received a letter these Estimates, but I think it is very appro­ from Mr. Pizzey and I hope that you will priate that they should be discussed. be able to understand the fact that you are Before dealing with them, however, I not allowed to have your money paid into should like to join my leader in welcoming the Commonwealth Savings Bank account. to this Chamber Mr. Jim Blake, the new "Mr. Pizzey says that your interests will hon. member for Isis. I feel that the magic be safeguarded by the Department and prediction made by the Minister for Lands, that you will receive your full payment in respect of ~~e hon. member will be like under the Workers' Compensation Laws. Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1777

"1 would like to hear what your actual appears in "'Hansard", that if the director's payments have been since you were injured, great-great-great-great-grandson wants to be as sometimes the information we get from the director, at the rate we are going the job the Department is not true--" will still be there for him. I will demonstrate the truth of that statement as I develop my Mr. Sullivan: Shame on you. It is a reflec­ tion on the department. argument. In the Annual Report of the Director of Opposition Members interjected. Aboriginal and Island Affairs we find these The TEMI'ORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. words- Dean): Order! I ask hon. members to allow "The immediate result of recent legisla­ the speaker to make his speech in his own tion with the stress on education of the way. younger generation is increasingly apparent in the attitude of community residents and Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: The letter con­ other Assisted and non-Assisted Aboriginal cludes- people." "I hope by now you are much better. I need go no further than that to be able to Best wishes, talk for an hour and prove just how futile and Yours sincerely, empty that sort of statement is. Why does E. Wallis-Smith." the Government make that statement when it cannot do the job? Why does it make that The reason for that letter was that I had statement when it has approximately 140 heard that the gentleman in question was children in one place with one white teacher not receiving workers' compensation. and Aboriginal and Islander teachers? Why This is the letter to Mr. Pizzey­ bring Islanders down to teach Aboriginal "Dear Mr. Pizzey, children? Does the Minister know that the "[ have received advice that Mr. Nigel Aborigines are not happy with the influx of a Pootchemunka, of Aurukun Mission, who great number of Island workers into their was injured in an accident on a cattle midst? I wonder if he does. Does he know station near Normanton in September, that consistently in the minds of the officers 1966, has not, to date, received any com­ of the department the Islanders are on a pensation . . ." higher plane than the mainland Aborigines? Does he know these things? Has he ever This was 1 March, 1967. thought about them? I say that he has not. The letter continues- That is where the breakdown in liaison comes " ... Jn fact his only income is $1.50 per into the matter. week from the Department of Aboriginal The Aborigines are continually "shown and Island Affairs, whilst he is not able up" by other people who go into their to work he has nine children, five of which communities. It has happened in the are under the age of 15. teaching profession. Can the Minister "l would be pleased if you would investi­ tell us how many Aborigines are qualified to gate this claim as no doubt there could the same degree as Islanders are qualified'! have been a breakdown in the necessary I should say the figure would be as low as forms and signatures which are required by 1 per cent.; I doubt whether it would be as the State Government Insurance Office for high as 3 or 4 per cent. The qualified people compensation claims. He has expressed a come from the Torres Strait Islands. They wish that the full amount be placed to his provide the education facilities for the credit in the Commonwealth Bank." Aboriginal children. Can the Committee see the picture? Can it If the Government is going to take over see the picture of a man who does not know these areas let it do so, but do not let the what he is entitled to, and can it imagine Department of Education tell me, in answer a fellow Queenslander not being advised by to my questions, "We have not taken over the anyone at all on how to complete his forms? full responsibility for the education of these It is quite difficult for us to represent even children." The Minister and his officers will our own workers in compensation claims say that these people are Aboriginal when they do not fill in their forms in the Queenslanders and are of equal standing in right manner or obtain doctors' certificates. our communitY. I heard the Leader of the Here we have a man who is suddenly Opposition say when I was called to the transferred from the Aurukun Mission to a phone earlier today, "You have no right to strange place, the Cairns Base Hospital, and do this. These people are citizens. Let us because I wrote those letters I am get away from referring to them as Aboriginal accused of jeopardising the liaison that exists Queenslanders. They are Queensland between the Government and the coloured citizens." people. Could anyone find any better liaison I have been asked by university students than that? I do not think it would be how they could get to know the people who possible. So much for the photostat letter live in Aboriginal communities. I have said that has caused such a lot of heartburning. to them, "If you went to a strange town and The late Mr. Jack Pizzey said that it was wanted to get to know its people, whom the director's Rmbition to work himself ont would vou ask?" They said, "The store­ of a job. I have made a statement, which keeper, the mayor, or the aldermPn." I said. 1778 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

'That is what you will have to do up there; on that subject, but only today do I learn it is exactly the same. Don't think about from the report that there are about 5,961 them as being other than the normal people cattle there. I sincerely hope that the methods you are used to dealing with." This is what are improved, and that these people are we have to drum into members of Parliament, taught how to muster and count cattle and into the Government, and into the people all the other necessary things instead of of Queensland. We can do that only if we someone saying, "Put 200 breeders here start at the bottom and give these coloured and 400 there; get them from here and people equal rights. there." I have asked in this Chamber whether any I raised another sore point, by way of a school in Queensland, other than one in an question, about sending these cattle away Aboriginal community, would be left without without attendants. I do not know if many a replacement teacher from 1 February for hon. members have travelled in the far­ the remainder of the school year. The excuse flung areas and seen trains waiting for a given to me is, "We called for applications, long time, or road traffic held up because but we did not get any." Could this happen of the very bad roads, but the journey to at any school other than one in an which I refer was undertaken without an Aboriginal community? Definitely not. There­ attendant for the cattle. My information fore, Aborigines must be on a different plane did not come from the residents and staff, from other Queenslanders. Let us treat them but from the railway people who carried as citizens rather than merely talk about the cattle. They said it was shocking to them as citizens. I have always said that think that such valuable cattle should be there is too much talking. carried long distances without an attendant for the full journey. It was a short-sighted The young mainland Aborigines excel in policy to economise in this way. certain work. They can work much better for graziers and on cattle properties than the The Minister may say that I am being Islanders or anyone else. We should exploit parochial, but this could happen in many this forte by establishing a school not only areas. The Minister referred to Foleyvale for Aborigines, but for station hands gener­ and Woorabinda and he said that there ally. Station work requires special training. were so many cattle at Foleyvale. I should One has only to see the work they do to like the Minister to tell the people up there, realise that they are excellent workers. They and particularly their councillors, what the have gained experience purely by imitation, set-up is with the cattle that come from the which is but one of the methods of teaching. Mitchell River Community. When these cattle are sold, will the amount received be Unfortunately for the Aborigines, the credited to their account? If these cattle are graziers can choose their workers from on agistment, is any fee being paid into their various communities. It is well known that account? in some years a community will provide These are the things we want to know, very good workers, but their efficiency is and the hon. member for Mackenzie would not constant. When efficiency decreases, also want to know them if he was in the another community can provide very good same positiOn. He would want to know all workers. The Minister should know by now about these cattle, where they came from, that graziers ask for boys from certain areas. how much he had to pay for them on Let us teach them to work efficiently. In agistment, and who would get the money our ordinary schools we have manual-training when they were sold. But this will all be classes in woodwork, sheet-metal work, and swallowed up in a mass of figures. It is so on. I am not asking for the impossible not good enough. in these areas, and although I would like This is another example of what these these skills to be taught, these people would people are not being told. Their councillors relish being taught the arts of station manage­ are high-graded in the report. But this is ment and general station work. I know that only words. They are not taken into the for many years the Islanders have been department's confidence. They would be under the care of various departmental officers to a greater extent if they were elected who have helped them to become good wholly and solely by the people, who have builders, and they have constructed the build­ a very good election system. When the ings in the communities. But no attempt churches controlled the communities the has ever been made to give the local people councillors were elected wholly and solely a chance by putting them in charge. They by the people. I say that this is right, are always labourers. I think we would and that they should also elect the chairman. all get tired of being labourers, year after It is all very well to say that they elect year, without any hope of becoming more three out of five and that that is a majority, proficient in our jobs. but it should not be any different from our The Minister referred with great pride method of electing councillors. When we have to the cattle industry in the communities, a council election we do not say that we and commended the hon. member for will elect three or four and that the Govern­ Mackenzie on what he has done. I also ment can elect the remainder. commend the hon. member, but how long It has been said that we gave these people did it take even to count the cattle at the right to vote and the right to drink. Mitchell River? I asked several questions These two things cost us very little, and, as Supply [26 NOVEMBER) Supply 1779 one gentleman said, the right to drink can we are representing. If we are to be called cost the Aborigine dearly. There should to order, let it be by those who put us here. be better liaison and better education on the Let there be no lies told here, such as the drink problem. It should be gone into fully. statement that I proved today was a lie. It should not be beyond the department's I have never met the man who was men­ ability to send films to the communities tioned, and I have never been to the Cairns showing these people just what effect liquor Base Hospital to see him. These things should can have if they do not drink it in a correct not be said and be allowed to go unchallenged manner. These little things are never so that people will think that where there is thought of. The only comment we can get smoke there is fire. Certainly where there from the average member of the public is, is smoke there is fire, but truth will put the "What more can you expect?" We could fire out-and the smoke-makers, too. expect a lot more if we put into action the things that the Minister and his department I would say that if hon. members on the merely talk about. other side of the Chamber were accused as I was this morning, they would want to I claim that if we supplement the diet walk out. They would want everything done. of Aborigines in coastal areas we would help But because it is done to the A.L.P., it is considerably. The quantities of flour and allowed to pass. It is allowed to go sugar sold to them are out of all proportion unchecked for the simple reason that it to what is required for a balanced diet. achieves an objective-or hon. members The Minister simply says, "The health of opposite hope it will. Of course, it will not these people is good, full stop". The Gulf accomplish anything, because the very people of Carpentaria and the waters off our eastern who are in those positions went there under coast abound in fish. A cold-room has Labour Governments. They were shown been provided at Edward River. The how to do the job. But they forget all that; Minister is rightly proud of this-it is a very their memories are short. They forget it good idea-but where there are fish in close when they say to a representative of the proximity fishing should be encouraged, people, "You are not doing the right thing because it is an industry that these people by your people." I shall let them be my could be taught. judge. I am proud to say that on many .Mr. P. Wood: Fish are rich in protein, too. occasions I have had to face ridicule and decide whether to keep on battling for the .Mr. W ALLIS-S.MITH: As the hon. mem­ Aborigines or simply say, "I think they are ber for Toowoomba East says, fish are rich hopeless. I will let them go on on their in protein. We do not want to force the own." In my book, they are people, and Aborigines to do these things suddenly. We they always will be. They will always be shou Id tell their councillors and show them, citizens, and I will treat them exactly as I by means of films, etc., the value of a good wmt!d treat you, Mr. Hooper, or any of your diet and education. We should also explain family. to them the value of land. .Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT (Mackenzie) (3.8 I shall now return to what I was saying p.m.) : First of all, let me say that I am in the earlier part of my speech. I forgot somewhat amazed at some of the statements to mention that the department claimed-! made this afternoon. I do not come here shall say this straight out-that the hon. to talk politically; I come here to think member for Tablelands had not pulled his more of people than of politics. I can, I weight or had done things that were showing feel, stand up to that statement. up in a bad light in the liaison between these people and the Government. I have proof The two departments whose activities come that I went to the missions in my area and before the Committee this afternoon are implored them to have patience relative to those dealing with lands and with Aboriginal the houses being built and that I told them and Island affairs. In land matters, I think that when the Government took over they I can take some credit from the fact that would be told what was meant and why the I was the first to put to this Parliament the additional cattle brand was placed over their need for a brigalow land development own brand. scheme in Queensland. Today such a scheme Again, when the trouble occurred at has settled many Queenslanders on the land, Edward River (the director knows about this and it is a development in which I can feel because, by chance, he happened to be that I have played some part. there), I was at Mitchell River and I I can also claim that I, too, have thought received an urgent message over the air of the Aborigines as people. When I took saying, "Come at once. We are in serious an interest in the Department of Aboriginal trouble." Does that sound as though I am and Island Affairs, things were not too rosy. somebody to be hated-somebody who is Looking back on those days, one readily always wrong and wanting to pull these thinks of Foleyvale, which is a property in people down? Does that appear to be so which I had some interest. In 1946 it was when my wife and I offered our services acquired by a Labour Government from there? Balcomba, then owned by Wilson and Why are people allowed to say such things McDouall, and, when I took an interest in it, here? I think it is time to have a very good the boundary was not even fenced and the look at these statements and see just whom Aborigines were not getting the full benefit 1780 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply from the property. I set about trying to He is a capable man in every way. As for reorganise things in the interest of people, sending 200 cattle or 400 cattle to the North not of my Government or any other and not selling them, I could not say whether Government, and I feel that my efforts were that action is right or wrong unless I had able to bring to the Aboriginal people some all the facts. of the advantages that they now enjoy. For instance, the income from the Woorabinda­ Mr. Wallis-Smith: You have missed the Foleyvale area alone has been increased from point. The people want to know what is $12,218 to $217,000. That money surely is going to happen to the cattle. of some value to the people of the other Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: That is up to the areas because, as the Minister has stated, it department. Cattle have been brought from goes to the Aboriginal Welfare Fund. M1tchell River down to Foleyvale. Some were In addition, in the interests of Aborigines sold in the Mareeba saleyards, and the I have travelled to the far-distant parts of remainder were brought down to the southern the State. I think the hon. member for part of the State. I do not know what the Tablelands will be fair enough to acknow­ policy of the department is. As far as I am ledge that I have made reports for all to see aware, the money from cattle sales goes to on Bamaga, Weipa, and other areas. I have the Aboriginal Welfare Fund, for the benefit flown to these places in single-engine aircraft. of all Aborigines in this State. Should hon. I have done a bit of flying in my time, and members care whether it is used for the I can say that it is no real fun flying in that benefit of Aboriginal people here, there, or area in single-engine aircraft and tripping anywhere else? That is not the basis on round day after day looking at country and which I took an interest in the work of the making reports that may be of help to these department. I tried to work for the benefit people. I can say quite fairly that at no of all Aborigines in Queensland. There are time did I ever go out of my way to try very few Aborigines at Woorabinda, and the to talk politics to even one Aborigine. I majority of the people whom I have helped went to those settlements only to try to give have been in areas far distant from my own the Aborigines something that might help electorate. Foleyvale is not in my electorate; them on their way. Cape York Peninsula and the other places that have been mentioned have nothing to Opposition Members interjected. do with me. I have tried to work for the Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: All I am saying benefit of the department and Aborigines is that I have made the reports. They can g-enerally in Queensland; I have not given any be followed by the department if it thinks thought to benefiting one area in particular. they are worth while. I have tried to do That is the point that I am trying to make something as an individual. to the Committee. The hon. member for Tablelands suggests that the money should A great deal of publicity has been given go to a specific area; I suggest that it should to Woorabinda, which is in my own elec­ be used for the benefit of Aborigines gener­ torate. As far as I am concerned, the A.L.P. ally. candidate could be there every day of the week and I would not be a bit worried. On The Minister has had a number of charges the other hand, I agree with the findings made against him. As the debate on these of the councillors on the islands. If they Estimates is to close at 3.30 p.m., far be it think that is the way it should be, that is for me to take up his time and prevent what should be done. him from answering these charges. Mr. Houston: The Government will not Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ let them go there. Minister for Lands) (3.14 p.m.): I wish to answer some of the criticisms that have been Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: It is not the find­ levelled at me in my capacity as Minister ing of the Government; it is the finding of for Lands and also as Minister in charge the people themselves. I have never tried of Aboriginal and Island Affairs. to play politics; I have no intention of doing so now. First of all, I want to say that I am sorry there is not more time for this debate, The CHAIRMAN: Order! If the hon. but the shortage of time is not of my member for Flinders and the hon. member making as the debate has to finish at 3.30 p.m. for Port Curtis wish to have a talk on this subject, I suggest that they have it outside. Let us have a look at what has come out of the debate. Perhaps I should deal Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: The hon. member first of all with some of the criticisms for Tablelands raised a couple of matters to made by the Leader of the Opposition of which I think I should refer. I am no what is taking place in the Department longer an adviser to Cabinet on these mat­ of Lands. By way of interjection when ters. I spent 10 years in that position, and I was introducing the Estimates, he asked I carried out my duties faithfully and to the what money was required by people to par­ best of my ability. The man who has ticipate in open ballots. The answer is, replaced me, Mr. Brian Shanahan, is a first­ as I indicated, that this will be determined class citizen of this State. He worked under as the blocks are made available. Par­ me, and I do not think that anyone has a ticipants in the ballots are required first better knowledge of the subject than he has. of all to pay for the improvements, and Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1781 this i~ &omething entirely between the out­ He is building up for himself as Leader of going lessee and the person who is success­ the Opposition the image of the "knocking ful at the ballot. The successful person Leader". He sickens me. is also required to pay one year's rent Let us get a few facts straight. The hon. and one-fifth of the survey fees. That is member claimed that other than employment all that a person who is successful in an as stockmen the Government sees no suitable open ballot is required to pay. As I men­ avenue of employment for Aborigines. I will tioned, vve do not know until the land list at least 10 industries that are functioning reverts to the Crown just what those amounts efficiently in Aboriginal communities. They might be. are: joinery and cabinet making; sawmilling; pre-cutting and pre-fabrication of homes and l made brief mention of the appreciation other buildings; Aboriginal curio workshops; of landholders as a result of our introduc­ farming development; stores; garages; work­ ing the rent-remission scheme as a drought shops; pearling and shell collecting; improved measure. The Leader of the Opposition pastures; and tourist activities. These are and other hon. members opposite claimed some of the avenues of employment that we that similar schemes had been introduced are providing for the Aboriginal people; yet as drought measures by Labour Govern­ the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to ments in years gone by. If this is so, say that the department and the Government the Department of Lands and I do not are doing nothing other than making stock­ know about them, because our records cer­ men out of them. Why doesn't he stick to the tainly do not show it. This is the first truth? time that drought measures by the remission Mr. Houston: How long has that been of rents have been undertaken. We also going on? have an arrangement with the local authorities whereby half the rates are also remitted. Mr. SULLIVAN: It has been going on Those are the facts as I know them. for years, and we are continuing to develop Apart from away back in 1902, when a these avenues. Nationalist Party Government was in office I have not the time to deal separately with and when some type of assistance was given, the remarks of the hon. member for Table­ we have no record of any other such lands. He mentioned things that should be scheme. done. I said that we had encouraged the The hon. member referred also to the Federal Government to make money avail­ prices paid for residential blocks in the Tar­ able for such things as housing, schooling, ragindi area. I want to mention this, education and hospitalisation. Surely that because the cost of developing these blocks indicates the Government's concern for these runs into about $1,700 each; that is, by people. the time we develop the blocks and provide The hon. member for Mackenzie answered roads, sewerage, and other services. In the the criticism of the Leader of the Opposition public interest, some additional amount for relative to the prohibition on election candi­ the land must be included in determining dates entering reserves. I reiterate that the the upset prices. The keen bidding reflects Torres Strait councillors resolved at their own the real attitude of purchasers. Even if conference that approval be granted only to the upset prices were halved, the bidders those persons who nominate for election to would still determine the purchase prices. Parliament to visit islands for the purpose of What has to be borne in mind is that election campaigning and that they be given the blocks to which the Leader of the the opportunity of one meeting at each island Opposition referred, very conveniently, are to explain their policies to the people. Each in a fairly select part of Brisbane, and approved person is expected to find his own the public itself determines just what the transport. Surely it is reasonable to respect price will be. the wishes of the duly elected representatives I now want to get on to some of the of the Island people. things that the Leader of the Opposition The Leader of the Opposition is prepared had to say relative to Aboriginal and Island to criticise me and my department for not Affairs. I am getting sick to death of allowing candidates to visit those areas. All listening to the Leader of the Opposition we are doing is respecting the wishes of the tell half truths. It was rather refreshing people who live in them. to hear the hon. member for Roma speak Mr. Houston: Why didn't you say that after the Leader of the Opposition and make before? some concrete suggestions to me and the department about what should be done. He Mr. SULLIVAN: The Leader of the Oppo­ has been a member of this Assembly for sition virtually condemned members of the only a little over 12 months, but during Police Force for becoming members of the that time he has visited these areas to see Country Party. He said that he expected what is needed in them, and he has made Country Party members to be associated practical suggestions. On the other hand, with primary industry. Some members of the the Leader of the Opposition has been here Country Party in this Chamber are not prim­ for 10 or 15 years, yet he did not put ary producers. I mention, for example, the forward one constructive suggestion. Instead, hon. members for Redcliffe and Albert. he endeavoured to "knock" the Government. Mr. Houston: I did not say that at all. 1782 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. SULLIVAN: The Leader of the Oppo­ Mr. SULLIVAN: He wrote the letter on sition implied that Jim Bidner, who is the parliamentary paper, and the last paragraph Country Party candidate for the forthcoming reads- election-- "! would like to hear what you~ actual payments have been since you were Mr. Houston: He IS ex-A.L.P. and injured, as sometimes the information we ex-D.L.P. get from the department is not true." Mr. SULLIVAN: The Leader of the Oppo­ Opposition Members interjected. sition implied that Mr. Bidner tried to get endorsement from the A.L.P. for the forth­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind hon. coming election. Why doesn't the hon. mem­ members on both sides of the Chamber that ber tell the truth? Years ago, Mr. Bidner the Minister should be given an opportunity tried to get as far away from the A.L.P. as to answer the points that have been raised he could, and he would not go back to it on relating to the Estimates. a bucking bronco. Mr. SULUVAN: Had I been the hon. Mr. Houston: How do you know? member for Tablelands I would not have brought that letter in here if I had been Mr. SULLIVAN: He told me; he has said guilty of writing it, which I am sure I would so repeatedly. He was a strong A.L.P. man not be. when it was a party that he could be proud of. But he woke up to it and is getting as Mr. Tucker: He got rid of your innuendo. far away from it as possible. And he is Mr. SULUVAN: It is here in black and trying to get other people away from it. white, and the hon. member should not Why does not the Leader of the Opposition make any mistake about the fact that I had tell the truth in this matter? When Mr. Bidner it here. went to Bamaga he went there as a private Mr. Tucker interjected. individual to visit the local show, just as anybody could do. He went there a few Mr. SULLIVAN: If hon. members oppo­ months ago when the local show was on. site are proud of the action of the hon. member for Tablelands in attacking depart­ Mr. Houston: Where else has he been? mental officers and planting the seeds of suspicion in the minds of Aboriginal people, Mr. SULLIV AN: That is the only place for whom they are responsible, I must say I am aware of that he has been, and he that I am rather surprised. went there as a visitor. Mr. Tucker: Why did the Premier Mr. Houston: You want to check up on apologise? your facts. Mr. SULLIVAN: I am not 'talking about Mr. SULLIVAN: He has to go to other what the Premier did. I am talking about places in his capacity as a plainclothes what is in question now. We will argue detective, but he does not go there on our this out. It is a shocking indictment of say-so. the hon. member for Tablelands. We will Mr. Houston: Do you mean to say that have an opportunity to go up there and he went there as a private citizen? tell the people the real truth. Mr. Tucker: Why did the Premier Mr. SULUVAN: He went to the Bamaga apologise? show. I do not know what the facts are. He may have been going there as a police­ Mr. SULLIV AN: I am not talking about man, but anybody was entitled to go to the that. The hon. member can ask the Premier show. When the Leader of the Opposition that question; he will answer him. is making innuendoes he should get his The hon. member for Mackenzie indicated facts straight and tell a little bit of the truth. the value of 'his pastoral knowledge to the department over a period of 10 years, during The hon. member for Tablelands waved which he was cattle adviser to the depart­ a letter about as though he was proud of ment. That is well known to us. it. I think there are hon. members in the Mr. Houston: Why didn't you make him Chamber who have become used to his a Minister? trying to hide behind his nice smile, but if this letter was not a reflection on the Mr. SULUVAN: That was not my integrity of public servants in the depart­ prerogative. The value of his work to the ment, if it was not an attempt by the hon. department is well known. I was pleased member to implant suspicion in the minds to hear him say that Mr. Shanahan, who of the Aboriginal people for whom the has taken his place, is a very capable and department is responsible, I want to know dedicated man. The figures I outlined this what would be. He stands condemned by morning showing the remarkable increase in all sincere hon. members in this Chamber. our cattle interests indicate what a valuable officer he is. Opposition Members interjected. I mentioned that I intend to visit the The CHAIRMAN: Order! Aboriginal communities early in December, Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1783 when the matters raised by the hon. member Resolution 3-Department of Education for Roma, the hon. member for Mackenzie, and Cultural Activities- and the hon. member for Tablelands-he was not bad all the time; only most of Mr. CHINCHEN (Mt. Gravatt) (3.39 the time-will be looked into by me with p.m.): I welcome the opportunity to speak very keen interest. on this Resolution, because education is of interest to all in the State and, furthermore, VOTES PASSED UNDER STANDING ORDER Opposition members have indicated over a No. 307 AND SESSIONAL ORDER period of time that in their opinion they At 3.30 p.m., under Standing Order No. have something on which to attack the 307 and Sessional Order agreed to by the Government. I say quite emphatically that House on 22 October, the questions for the Government's record in education can­ the following Votes were put by the Chair­ not be challenged on any ground at all. man and agreed to­ Mr. P. Wood: Not on anything at all? Department of Lands- $ Mr. CHINCHEN: There has been over a Chief Office 1,960,870 period of time a probing here and there by Balance of Department, those who are interrupting at this moment, Consolidated Revenue, particularly the hon. members for Too­ Trust and Special Funds woomba East and Norman. They have for and loan Fund Account 13,363,857 some time been asking questions, posing Executive and Legislative queries, and endeavouring to raise doubts, Assembly, Balance of and from all that they expect to find some­ Vote 576,353 thing on which to hang their hats at the Premier and Department of next election. Without a doubt, the people State Development 19,919,499 of Queensland have learnt over the last 10 The Treasurer 11,276,324 or 11 years that the. Country-Liberal Department of Health 51,333,795 Government is the only Government that Department of Justice 7,283,608 has made tangible progress in education. Department of Labour and I was more than amazed this morning to Tourism 3,771,461 hear the hon. member for Norman endeavour­ Department of Local Gov­ ing to indicate that teachers in the country ernment, Irrigation and were inferior to those in the city. I think Forestry 5,256,017 that is a shocking thing to say. Department of Railways 95,226,000 Mr. Bromley interjected. Department of Transport 1,245,668 Mr. CHINCHEN: That is all I could Department of the Auditor- assume from the hon. member's question. General 534,713 Trust and Special Funds Mr. BROMLEY: I rise to a point of Estimates, Balance of order. I did not indicate in my question Estimates 230,053,373 that country teachers were inadequate. I ask the hon. member for Mt. Gravatt to Loan Fund Account Esti- withdraw that statement. mates, Balance of Estimates 57,583,000 Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Supplementary Estimates Mr. Bromley: I was simply seeking (Consolidated Revenue), information. 1967-68 18,743,849.63 Supplementary Estimates Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The taking of a (Trust and Special point of order does not mean that an hon. Funds), 1967-68 4,597,227.75 member may make a speech. The hon. Supplementary Estimates member for Mt. Gravatt will accept the (Loan Fund Account), denial of the hon. member for Norman. 1967-68 9,040,381.54 Mr. CHINCHEN: I am sorry that I have Vote on Account, 1969-70 131,000,000 stung the hon. member. I can only read SEVENTEENTH ALLOTTED DAY-RECEPTION into his question the indications that it gave to me. OF RESOLUTIONS Resolutions reported and, on motion of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! When another hon. Mr. Chalk, received. member makes a denial, the hon. member is bound to accept the denial without ADOPTION OF RESOLUTIONS reservation. The Resolutions being taken as read­ Mr. CHINCHEN: I accept the denial. The Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer-Act­ only point I was making was that I read ing Premier): I move- my thinking into the hon. member's words, "That the Resolutions be now agreed to." and I think everybody else will put a similar interpretation on them. There is the indica­ Honourable members indicating a desire to tion that perhaps there is something wrong discms certain Resolutions-- with the transfer system, that there is some­ Resolutions 1 and 2 agreed to. thing different about young teachers and 1784 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply old teachers. There is a rather nasty insinua­ did not wish to educate our young people. tion in that, and it is a reflection on the That is the only interpretation I can put teaching service. on it. Mr. BROMLEY: I rise to a point of order. In another State, and in the last century, The hon. member is still going on in the there was an institute of technology in a same fashion. I did not indicate at any city like Geelong, yet in Brisbane, a much time that I thought teachers were inefficient. bigger city, there was no such thing. In all other States in the Commonwealth there Mr. CHINCHEN: I am quite happy to were institutes of technology, but there were withdraw the remarks. none in Queensland because we had a Labour Over a period, certain people have en­ Government. There is no other reason for deavoured to cast reflections on the whole it; I thmk that is well recognised. of the teaching service and the educational system in this State. That has been done Let us go further and look at the rural by various hon. members opposite and by situation and the establishment of the rural people such as Mr. E. A. Baldwin, the training school at Longreach. This is a president of the Queensland Teachers' Union. wonderful concept. The Opposition are status Mr. Baldwin began his attack a considerable quo people. What they have for 40 years time ago and claimed that he was making they live with; they stick to that and there it in the interests of the teachers. It is is no change. I defy anybody in the Opposi­ rather remarkable that he now turns out to tion to stand up after I have finished and he the A.L.P. candidate for Logan. Was that tell us what happened in the 40 years that man thinking of the teachers, or was he they were in office. I should like to learn thinking of himself? That is the question what they did and compare it with what that I pose to the House. There is no doubt we have done in 10 or 11 years. I want in my mind that he was endeavouring to to hear what happened in the previous 10 create a clouded atmosphere in the teaching years and the 10 years before that. service for his own advantage, and I con­ Members of the Opposition will say that sider that to be a shocking state of affairs. the agricultural college at Gatton was there I ask hon. members to compare the in 1957. It was, but look at it today. lt is situation today in the field of education in an entirely different college now, almost com­ Queensland with the situation in 1957. Hon. pletely rebuilt. Millions of dollars have members opposite are quite happy to point been spent upgrading the Lawes college. l the finger at this, that and the other thing; hope that some hon. members opposite have but when they think back to what education been there to see it. It is a magnificent was like in this State in 1957-the point college, entirely as a result of this Govern­ was raised a short while ago of their having ment's efforts. short memories-they should bow their heads The university at St. Lucia is another in shame. As all hon. members know, in example. Look what has happened there 1957 the State Scholarship examination was in the last 10 years. In addition, arrange­ the be-all and end-all of education in ments have been made for a new university Queensland. There were 13,816 pupils in at Mt. Gravatt in the next triennium. Every­ State high schools in this State in 1957. Only thing points to the fact that things are being the privileged few were able to go to high done for our young people. school; the rest were cast out with an in­ adequate education. Mr. W. D. Hewitt: You can take a Jot What took place? As soon as the Country­ of credit for that. Liberal Government came to office, big changes were made, and today approximately Mr. CHINCHEN: I do not take full credit 78,000 students attend high school, as for it. compared with the 13,816 in 1957. Dealing now with teachers' colleges, we Mr. Bromley: What percentage of workers' were bold enough to arrange to extend the children goes to the university? Tell us that. period of teacher-training from one year to It is 1.5 per cent. two. Under a Labour Government there was one year's training for teachers, and Mr. CHINCHEN: The point is that so we now hear the complaint that two years much has happened. There has been a is too short a period. The training period complete change of syllabus in both primary was extended to two years by this Govern­ schools and high schools. We have ment with the full knowledge that we would seen the introduction of institutes of lose 1,000 teachers. It was a calculated technology. Is it not amazing, Mr. risk, but one well worth taking. Opposition Speaker? I came from the city of Geelong members would have said, "We cannot afford in Victoria, and an institute of technology to lose a thousand teachers", and the training was established in Geelong in the last century. period would still have been one year, at Yet until this Government came to power a time when we are arranging for three there was not one imtitute of technology in years' training for teachers. We know that the whole of Queensland. Today we have this is necessary and it will happen, hut three. The only reason we can think of it can only be done by planning and by for this is that the Opposition, when in power, putting more money into education. Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1785

These things represent true progress made much higher figure than the 14 per cent., we by this Government, compared with the 10 realise how much more money is now spent years before 19 57, when there was no move­ on education. Of course, the expenditure of ment. Do not let anyone say that this that sum is necessary because it is difficult would have happened anyway, because if for a developing State to allocate its funds one goes back 10 years and another 10 to meet the requirements of all departments. years one sees that nothing was done, and Queensland is a developing State; in fact, that was peculiar to this State. it is a galloping State. What the Government Furthermore, on the technical side there is doing for education is magnificent. If we are the perimeter colleges. This again is care to look at the percentage spent on a concept that happened in all other large education as against the total expenditure, cities in the other States, but not in this less business undertakings, we find that in State. This is the next move, and it will 1957-58, 24.15 per cent. was spent, and now happen. One can see it happening at Eagle it is 30.84 per cent. These figures show Farm and at Y eronga, and it will be hap­ how far we were behind in the days when pening in other areas. It is necessary for the Labour Party was in office. this State. Everything could not be done Mr. Bromley: What about taxation? Work in five minutes, as things were in such a that out, too. shabby situation in 1957. What had to be done was enormous, but the job was under­ Mr. CHINCHEN: That is an interesting taken by this Government. point, and I am glad that the hon. member At this point I should like to pay a very for Norman has raised it. Expenditure on sincere tribute to the late J. C. A. Pizzey, education from Consolidated Revenue, as a who was Minister for Education during the percentage of tax reimbursement, in 1957-58 years during which this progress was made. amounted to 41.25 per cent., whereas in I sincerely feel that in years to come this 1968-69 it amounted to 55.35 per cent. Is that State will know, better than it does at this not a revelation? This is what the hon. moment, how much it owes this gentleman member is interested in. for his work in bringing about these great Mr. Bromley: It is not. changes in education. The change that the late J. C. A. Pizzey brought about in educa­ Mr. CHINCHEN: Those percentages show tion was a complete revolution. what the Government has done for educa­ When we look at the period of 10 years we tion; yet no other areas of expenditure are realise that it is not a long period at all. In suffering. That has been achieved only by those relatively few short years Mr. Pizzey good management, good housekeeping, and achieved much in the field of both primary good economics by the present Government. and secondary education. He overcame the We see development on all sides. problems of insufficient teaching staff and school equipment; in the technical field he Mr. Davies: There was development prior established institutes and colleges; he to 19 57, too. You are not being honest. instituted rural colleges and improvements Mr. CHINCHEN: The hon. member will at Lawes; he did a lot at the teachers' have his chance to tell us about this, and I colleges and the university. Really, the State am waiting to hear it. He should tell us does not know what it owes to the late about the technical education that was not pro­ J. C. A. Pizzey. I pay him a very sincere vided when Labour was in power, and about tribute for what he did and the great benefits the high schools and rural colleges that were from his work that will accrue to the people not established by his Government. He of this State in years to come. should tell us what was done by his Govern­ I should now like to draw one or two ment and compare it with what my Govern­ comparisons. I shall not deal in terms of ment has achieved. He can choose any period money, because the howl would immediately that he likes; he can choose the best period come from members of the Opposition that if he wishes. I issue a challenge to him, and the value of money has changed considerably. I hope that he accepts it. Instead, I shall deal with percentages and draw a comparison between what was done If we look at expenditure on education by a Labour Government and what has been from Loan Funds as a percentage of total achieved by the present Government. Loan Funds, we see that in 1957-58 the Labour Government spent 10.6 per cent.­ When we look at the expenditure on and there was a jump-up in that year. Let education from the Consolidated Revenue me outline what happened previously. In Fund as a percentage of total expenditure, we the previous year only 8 per cent. was spent, find that in 1957-58 the provision for educa­ but today we are spending 16.3 per cent. of tion amounted to 14.22 per cent. of the total a much larger amount of money. In 1956-57, expenditure; at present the percentage is $4,750,000 was spent, and the estimated 23.01. These are percentages of entirely expenditure for 1968-69 is $15,000,000. Hon. different amounts of money. members opposite cannot tell me that the If we look at the sums of money, we see difference is caused merely by the change in that in 1957-58 the total expenditure was money values. We have allocated large sums $178,000,000; it is now $377,000,000. When of money for specific purposes. This had to we consider that the 23 per cent. is of a be done in a comparatively short time because 1786 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply of the run-down state of education when this schools and Education Departments in Eng­ Government came to power. That is known land, Scotland, France, Germany, Wash­ and understood. ington, New York, Chicago, Buffalo, San Francisco, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. I refer now to expenditure on university He said that the change of scenes was most education. This will interest the hon. mem­ difficult to cope with. This is so under­ ber for Maryborough, who is trying to chirp standable. in on the corners as he always does. If he listens to me he will learn something; when Mr. Roberts went on to say- I listen to him I learn nothing. I want him "From the organisational point of view to hear this story. In 1957-58 the total the systems of education we have in Aus­ expenditure on the university was $2,788,000. tralia are almost unique in that Australian The estimated expenditure for 1968-69 is local authorities have no responsibility in $13,812,000. That explains the situation. We educational systems, but generally in are doing the job. I know that this hurts Britain and the United States of America members of the Opposition because they can­ and Canada each local authority is the not ignore the figures; yet they are trying to core of an educational system." tell the people that education in this State He went on to point out that there are is not as it should be. some large sections, for instance, in London, The pupil-teacher ratio figures are very New York and Glasgow- significant. The hon. member for Too­ ". . . but they are not typical; ninety woomba East has been continually probing per cent. of the education departments are these figures to find weaknesses. I point out comparatively small and their authority that in 1957 the pupil-teacher ratio was 32.1, is limited to a small area." but in 1968, on exactly the same basis, it is All hon. members can see the problems 26.4. We all want the ratio to improve, but associated with endeavouring to cope with that can happen only over a period. In the whole State of Queensland. This is every year from 1957 to 1968 there has been the reason for the transfers referred to by an improvement. There has not been one the hon. member for Norman in his question year without an improvement in the pupil­ today. If he would like to see a change teacher ratio, which is vitally important. to a system such as that which exists in When the two new teachers' colleges, at America, Canada, or England, where the Townsville and Mt. Gravatt, are in local authority handles its own educational full swing, even with the loss occasioned system, can he imagine how teachers would by the three-year training period there be attracted to our far-western areas run will be a further decrease in the by local authorities? Because of the inability pupil-teacher ratio. There will be a to finance those small areas for educational distinct improvement because of organised purposes and the inability to attract teachers, planning; there has been nothing haphazard the children in those areas would be getting about it. a poor education. There is no question Opposition members are continually trying about this. This is happening in some of to find weaknesses in education matters gen­ the far-flung areas in Canada. erally. They seem to think that there is a We know that today we have a system perfect system of education, but it is accepted under which teachers are transferred from by people who have looked into this matter the metropolis and the larger cities to our that there is no such thing. Every country outback areas, and after a period they come has had its problems, and every country is back. This is an excellent system, and still having them. We in Australia are not results in people in all areas getting the unique in our attitude to education, but we same standard of education. This is very know full well that every country in the necessary. These other large countries are Western world has had an enormous finding problems in the system of education teacher problem and that no country by local authorities. This is the reason has yet found a way to overcome it. why Federal Governments in those countries No country has found the ideal type are assisting in education. The local authority of education; none knows just what it areas cannot find sufficient money to finance should be. We all know of the various experi­ their educational boards and run them ments that have been carried out, but no-one satisfactorily. yet knows what will ultimately be defined as the perfect type of education. I do not Mr. Roberts mentioned that there was- think it ever will be defined. "A marked variation in standards of equipment and personnel even in adjacent I suggest to hon. members opposite who areas. Affluent areas do very well; poorer have not seen the report by Mr. C. R. communities are at a disadvantage." Roberts, Director of Secondary Educa­ This must be obvious to all hon. members tion, after his overseas tour that they when they think of the local-authority system should read it. It is a very enlightening and of education. factual report. It is not an endeavour to justify anything at all. It tells the picture as He went on to say, and I feel that this Mr. Roberts saw it after speaking to educa­ is most interesting- tionists in many other countries. He points "Critics of education in Queensland often out that his three months' tour involved accuse us of being backward, implying Supply [26 NovEMBER) Supply 1787

the c~istence of a perfect system of educa­ One of the pieces of equipment supplied in tion which ought to be transplanted here. primary schools is a balance. I believe This is absolutely wrong." that children would learn more if one day I agree. There is no such thing as a per­ the teacher said, "Here is a pound weight fect system which can be picked up and and here is a pound of butter. We want transplanted. It just does not happen. Some to see if the butter really does weigh 1 lb. things that we are doing here are sufficiently It says '1 lb.' on the packet. How do we go forward that educationalists in England and about finding that out?" The kiddies would America would like them there. And some then exercise their minds, and someone would things there we would like to have here. probably come up with the thought, "Why not use a stick and a fulcrum and measure Speaking of overseas schools, Mr. Roberts it that way?" After a period of discussion goes on to mention- that would probably happen, and the "Generally the high school student has children would thus have taught themselves a 'good time', with courses more varied what a balance is and how it can be used. and less challenging than in our schools; in no school I visited did the standard of Surely that type of education is preferable basic academic work in the upper grades to the provision of a balance which the appear to equal that of our senior classes." children do not understand, anyway, and of This is his conclusion after a good deal which they are simply told, "This is how you of investigation. weigh things". I think it is possible that some head-teachers are making too heavy Mr. Murray: In any case, a philosophy of demands on parents and citizens' associations change and adaptation certainly applies to for certain types of equipment. If the education. children educate themselves such as they would in the example that I have given, I Mr. CHINCHEN: This is happening now. think that is true education. That is the point I am getting at. For so many years there was a sort of status quo, Money is paid out by parents and citizens' and it was carried on the way it was. The associations to obtain equipment to teach books used by my brother who is six children the various shapes. Surely, for years older than I am, could also be used example, if a teacher explained what a cube by me. Many people are looking for this was-its number of sides and the fact that all today. They say, "Why must there be changes sides are equal-and then said, "Go home in school books?" There must be change and, in the next day or two, find a cube," at all times. Education is never static. It each child would hunt around till he found a must always change. We find different cube, or else he would make one. When a methods. new ways and different procedures. child was told what a sphere was, he would These must be brought into the system. probably find an old tennis ball at home and This is why I like what is happening in our say, "This is a sphere". He would then know Department of Education today. There is what these shapes were. These things could this awareness that there is no ultimate. It be arranged in schools, and this is teaching is someth,ing that is coming into being over rather than merely buying equipment that a period of time but will never be reached. means nothing to the students. In mentioning that there is always a cry Mr. Porter: You want inquiring minds. for elaborate equipment, Mr. Roberts said- Mr. CHINCHEN: That is what we look "Oanada and the United States lead for at this level. At the secondary and in the supply of elaborate educational tertiary stages of education there must cer­ equipment for all types of instruction. tainly be sophisticated equipment, but at the But there is evidence in many countries lower level I am inclined to think that so of a growing suspicion of some of this much more could be done by getting the costly equipment. Many people within children themselves to move into this field. and outside the teaching service were so carried away by the performance of modern Mr. Murray: Make primary education more teaching machines that they were ready an adventure of living. to believe that they were the complete answ"r. But this is not so. Even a Mr. CHINCHEN: That is how it must be, language laboratory, useful as it is, does and the more advanced teachers are doing not solve the language-teaching problem. just that. Without a very skilled teacher using the I should like to read to the House the laboratory, results are negative." conclusion of Mr. Robert's report. He Today many people try to suggest that our states- children are not getting a sufficiently good " I came back stimulated by what I saw, education because of a lack of equipment. but more than ever certain that our system We ail know that recently new equipment is fundamentally sound. was prov;ded at primary schools, and, further­ "When the Minister's special committee, more, in some cases parents and citizens' including the most prominent educationists associations are supplying much sophisticated with University and independent school equipment. However, I am one who believes representation, prepared a secondary that this must be watched closely, as money school curriculum for Queensland about can be wasted this way in primary schools. four years ago, there was not one voice 1788 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

of any note raised against it. When the The hon. member did not mention iliai one special subject committees prepared their grade had been moved from primary to three years courses, there was general secondary school. The Government still has approval in the teaching service and to look after those children, but the hon. complimentary messages from outside it. member regarded them as primary-school Some of these courses have been revised children and did not take them in age and improved. Yet the system is often groups. He is sufficiently intelligent iO know condemned. The teaching service, though that he took advantage of the situation, not as strong numerically as in some and I do not think it was a very truthful countries, is equal to the best in per­ approach to the question that he was raising. formance. Queensland teachers are highly What has happened in Queensland in the regarded overseas. Yet some of our local last 10 or 11 years, and particularly in the critics pour scorn on our teacher training. last four or five years, is remarkable, and The standard of entry to our Teachers' I believe Lhat the Government can hold up Colleges is higher than that demanded by its head because of what is happening in most colleges in other parts of the world. this State in the field of education .and in We lack some equipment by comparison planning for the future. with richer and more developed countries; we need more graduates in the service; we Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (4.12 p.m.): I need to look again at our school buildings; thought that the hon. member for Mary­ but we have passed through an extra­ borough would rise to the challenge that ordinary period of expansion in secondary was issued by my colleague the hon. member for Mt. Gravatt, but apparently he declines education in Queensland in the last twelve years. The number of State it. secondary students in 1955 was 10,800; Mr. Davies: I did take it lip. I said, this year it is 72,000. Of necessity, con­ "Read my speeches in 'Hansard'." K have centration has been on the provision of made three speeches on education in the classrooms and laboratories. The time is last 18 months. close, I hope, when we can do far more Mr. PORTER: Indeed. It is a pos,t 6tate­ than this. But with all our shortcomings, ment. apparently. The hon. member is not I am certain that the secondary school dealing wit'h the matter on the basis of what student in Queensland is not at a dis­ the hon. member for Mt. Gravatt said. advantage; in several respects he is much better-off than the student his own age in The hon. member for Mt. Gravatt gave other countries." the House a very stimulating. illuminating and, of course, totally unanswerable case I think that describes honestly the situation indicating what has been done in the in Queensland at the moment. There is educational field in this State. At the same an awareness here of the need for change time, he admitted that the field is one of and improvement. However, there must be change, in which there is always more to an honest recognition of what has been do. accomplished, as Mr. Roberts said, in the When t

That certainly was the case in the field Conservatorium of Music costs dose on of cultural activities. But much has been $500,000 a year; it has world recog­ done, and it is important to note that nition, 3,000 students, and is a very Queensland now has a Minister for Cultural important body indeed. So in terms of Activities and that a Director of Cultural a conservatorium there is still a distance we Activities has been appointed. Of course, can go. The advice of a new building will with a State election looming next year­ be welcomed by all who have the interests of and all of us, I should think, are aware of musical appreciation at heart. the necessity to watch the winds of change­ In the library field, in New South Wales it is desirable that we should look forward the library is run as a Government depart­ to What else can be done for the future. ment attached to the Department of Educa­ Mr. l\1urray: If we are to have more cul­ tion, operated by a body of trustees, and tural electioneering that will eliminate the financed by various parliamentary appropria­ hon. member for Maryborough. tions and includes, of course, the world­ famous Mitchell Library. About $1,500,000 Mr. PORTER: That would be very sad; I a year is spent on this library. We find that should not like him eliminated; he has some in other States something of the same thing entertainment value. maintains. In Western Australia there is a In considering cultural activities, I think library board responsible to the Minister for it is useful to look at what is done in other Education. The Art Gallery operates with a States and, very quickly, one can see that in board of five, set up by a 1959 Act. Incident­ other States' spheres there is much more ally, the botanic gardens there operates under emphasis on governmental activity than per­ a statutory board that is responsible to a haps there is here where, in our capital city, Minister of the Government. we have tended to leave some things to the It established a botanic gardens itn King's local authority, and it is doubtful whether Park, with 67 acres now cultivated and, I these particular aspects are being capably think, with every known variety of Western handled. Australian wildflower in a special area. It is a Mr. Davies: Will the hon. member admit most magnificent sight. The point is that that it was a Labour Government that started things which are left to municipal administra­ the Conservatorium of Music? tion here and done poorly-perhaps only because of lack of funds, but for whatever Mr. PORTER: My friend from Clayfield reason, done poorly-are accepted as govern­ says that I should admit nothing, but perhaps mental responsibility in other States. l think the hon. member for Maryborough may be it is interesting to note that in both South right. I am not suggesting that the Labour Australia and Victoria the department is Government did nothing at all. This would known as the Department of Culture and be gilding the lily too much. What I am Recreation. I think this an important group­ suggesting is that it was left to this Govern­ ing, because, as time goes by and technology ment to make substantial changes, and, of makes people more productive, so leisure will course, when we make changes in terms of become a more important factor in people's improving cultural activities we have to be lives. I have mentioned before the great aware that we have cut our coats accord­ problems that will be created if we have an ing to our cloth. There are clamorous calls excess of leisure and we do not know how to on scarce State resources, and while one does use that leisure well. Without doubt, cultural not think, in general terms, that there are education is the basic factor in ensuring that many votes in culture, usually this is a field leisure will be put to proper use. It is inter­ that does not get a great deal of attention. esting to see that the portfolio in those two So it is to the Government's credit that it States is entitled "Culture and Recreation". has done something about it and shows every prospect of doing much more. In South Australia, as in other States, I got to Western Australia a while ago. the library is a State library, and is admini­ It is 3,000 miles away. It is a long trip stered by a Libraries Board, which is and I do not want to go there twice, but in responsible to a Minister. As an adjunct to Western Australia the Government still main­ that library a children's library is established. tains very effectively a Workers' Educational It is famed throughout Australia. H contains Association. Some hon. members here may approximately 6,000 volumes, and I think recall the W.E.A. when it was an effective it is the oldest children's library in Australia. adult educational and cultural body in Its development, its policies and its projects Queensland. But, for some reason, it has gone all come under the direction of a Minister into the limbo and, apparently, as far as I of the Crown, with Parliament, of course, can ascertain, only in New South Wales is providing the requisite supervision. the W.E.A. effective. I am sorry, I was in In South Australia the Art Gallery was Western Australia, but I should be back in extended three years ago into a three-storey, New South Wales. As I say, only in New air-conditioned building, and many of its South Wales is the W.E.A. an effective body, most valuable treasures are now kept in spending something like $100,000 a year. that section of the building. Of course, in terms of a conservatorium Adelaide can claim to have a certain of music we mention that ours has done cultural eminence, which we have not yet excellent work, but the New South Wales achieved, because the Adelaide Festival of 1790 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Arts has world recognition. It runs for like Oliver Twist; they will always be seeking some 16 days, and nearly half a million more. I think there has been a recognition people visit Adelaide and attend the various of the role that culture must play in the performances in all aspects of the Arts. community by the increased grants made to I think there have been about four over cultural bodies and the appointment of a the last seven or eight years. At the last Director of Cultural Activities who already festival there were over 300 separate per­ gives every indication of making himself formances. Adelaide is a city that has made an effective force in this sphere. But to culture a living part of its community. make cultural activities a vital part of our development requires more. I think we As in other capitals, the control of the should ask ourselves what is culture. Many Adelaide Botanic Gardens is vested in a board people think it is something separate, some­ of governors who are responsible to a Minister thing esoteric, as it were, something strange, of the Crown. Attached to the Botanic something that cannot be comprehended by Gardens are Zoological Gardens. In them the man in the street; that art and culture can be seen orderly, sensible and long-term are the province only of the pseudo­ development, which is responsibly administer­ sophisticate. They become frightened off by ed and effectively operated. strange blank verse or peculiar novels, I might mention that the Government streams of consciousness in writing, by pieces accepts the responsibility for developing of art, abstracts and other paintings that park and sporting areas. Throughout the average man looks at and says, "Well, Adelaide there are now 1,700 acres of I don't understand it; I certainly would not developed park lands, and large areas are like to live with it. Is it art?" Very often devoted to sporting activities. We are told it isn't. That, of course, is not necessarily that Brisbane possesses the greatest amount culture or art, but we must recognise that of open space in any capital city, but it culture is a living, breathing part of human would be interesting to know how much existence at all levels of living. It really is of it is in a developed state as park land an essential part of the fabric of being, and that can properly be used for recreational that is why I think it is proper that cultural or other purposes. activities should be associated with the Victoria has taken a long leap forward in Ministry of Education. terms of cultural advance. It has a State In my view, it is absolutely essential that library, which is a branch of the Department children learn early, and learn in the schools, of the Chief Secretary and is administered by what is comprised in harmony of form, a library council. It contains some very colour and pattern. They must imbibe there, magnificent volumes, as hon. members who as it were, a basic recognition of what is have visited it will know. It has some balance, and what is harmony and what missals that date back to the 10th century, constitutes the elements of good taste, and it embraces the famous Latrobe because, if they learn good taste in an collection. The Melbourne Art Gallery has artistic sense, they can apply these standards alwa~s been regarded as a first-rate one, to all their departments of living as they but It has now moved into its new Arts grow older and fashion their environment Centre, which has replaced the old Swanston according to what they have learned. They Street building, and it has become the envy will be able to shape their tastes in enter­ and the admiration of the rest of Australia. tainment and literature, and what they wear, Its new Arts Centre has become the focal the furniture they buy and the houses that point for all of Victoria's cultural activities they live in. And, as a community which and we in this State should aim at th~ has imbibed the elements of culture and establishment of a similar centre. It will good taste, they will be able to impose on not only be for the showing of formal art governments and planners all those proper but also for design exhibitions, trade shows, aspects which make for harmonious and and so on. All of those have a tremendous beautiful town-planning in the best sense of value in determining elements of good taste that much-used word. in industrial production. In making these brief supplementary com­ The Arts Centre on St. Kilda Road in ments on this department's Estimates, Melbourne has a number of auditoria with I recommend that, if at all possible, stage facilties for musical and drama pre­ we should in future put much more sentations, and it has a restaurant and emphasis on terms of expenditure and pro­ other facilities. It is a superb building, with viding the trained people for the task of its ceiling of coloured glass, its "Ceiling teaching children at the primary school of Light", as it is called. That is something level. We should not wait until they get that, in an arts sense, has made this building to the secondary school level, but should known to art critics and art lovers throughout do it at the primary school level, at a the world. tender age. We should teach them the elements of artistic order, of balance and I have only briefly reviewed the situation of discipline, because without discipline­ in other States to emphasise that, no matter and intense discipline-there is no real art. how much we have done-and, as I say, It is only from appreciation of these factors we have gone a considerable distance, and that we can expect to have an adult com­ much has been achieved-there is a need for munity which has any critical appreciation more. Cultural activities in Queensland are based on a proper and recognisable cultural Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1791

form. Only in this way can we hope to have again as if they are a lot of ancient a civilised, cultured and sophisticated Egyptians, with their faces towards the community, and I use the word "sophisti­ Sphinx, uttering some sort of incantation to cated" in its proper, literary sense. I further the gods, trying to cast some spell, and get believe that only with this type of com­ down to the hard facts of life. Let them munity will we get a guarantee that we see if the people believe what they appar­ have people who, as voters, can impose on ently want to believe or would wish the governments, local authorities and other community to believe, namely, that this bodies those standards of excellence which Government has failed dismally in the sphere will make us, in this State, pre-eminent in of education. Australia and, I think, eventually admired throughout the world. This is what we I remind them that in terms of actual should aim at. achievements and tangible achievements­ buildings and money spent-the record of Briefly, in conclusion, I point out that this Government is an excellent one. In terms the other day I mentioned the desirability of introducing innovations and experimenta­ of providing an art gallery. Everybody tion, again the record is an excellent one. agrees on this. I made the suggestion, True, the experimentations are of recent virtually in parenthesis, that perhaps we times, but they are happening, and this is could contemplate building a new Parlia­ the important thing. I believe that the ment House and making this building an people will recognise that, in terms of art gallery. I have been rather surprised effective education, there. is much more than at the extraordinary measure of support that the mere spending of money. I have pointed I have received in artistic circles for this out that in other States where the quantum proposal. My colleague, the hon. member of expenditure is greater than in Queensland, for Mt. Coot-tha reminds me that even symptoms of teacher unrest and all the other the art expert, the hon. member for Norman, unfortunate manifestations that we have had has approved of this proposal, and this is here have not been inhibited. Indeed, in high praise indeed. This is an excellent New South Wales, teachers staged a one­ building. It is a building which would lend day strike. At least they had the good itself extremely well to being used as an sense not to do that here. I hope that art gallery. teachers will always remember that if they At some time or another we must contem­ want professional status they must not neces­ plate vast extensions to this Parliament House sarily put themselves into a trades union which was built 100 years ago. Indeed, I classification. These two things do not go think the Minister for Works and Housing together. indicated that possibly some $6,000,000 would All in all, I would welcome education be spent in the quite foreseeable future on being on the battlefield for next year's State a tower block. I venture to say that, even election. I have no doubt that on this basis with that expenditure, this will still be an the Government will emerge with a clear old Parliament House with some improve­ victory. ments. If we contemplate building a tower block and a separate art gallery, I doubt Mr. HOOPER (Greenslopes) (4.34 p.m.): I very much whether we will escape for less join in this debate to support the two previous than something of the order of $10,000,000 speakers, and I should like to speak particu­ to $12,000,000-perhaps more-in the two larly on special education. The hon. member to three years when we are able to get around for Toowong, who has just resumed his to it with available funds. seat, threw out a challenge to members of Not only may it be desirable, in an the Opposition, and I join with him in thi<>, aesthetic sense, to provide a magnificent new particularly in the field of special education. Parliament House suitable for the next cen­ Hon. members opposite who are so vocal tury and to convert this building, which is at this stage do not remember-they do a very lovely building and needs to be pre­ not want to remember; indeed, they try to served in the very best way, into an art forget-what they did not do for special gallery, but it may also be the best economic education. proposition. I think that expenditure on As the president of the parents and citizens' a new Parliament House and alterations to association of the Queensland School for turn this building into an art gallery would the Deaf, a position that I have held for be less than the cost of a substantial and ade­ some time, I have been able to observe quate new art gallery added to the cost of very closely, through serving on the com­ improving the facilities of this Parliament mittee since 1958, what the Government has House with the addition of a new tower done for special education. Also in my block. electorate is an opportunity school for In general terms in education, I, like my assimilation of these children with normal colleague the hon. member for Mt. Gravatt, children. Hon. members opposite were not say to the members of the Opposition that prepared to do this; they would not face if they believe that this Government has up to the facts. failed in any particular in education, let Before continuing to deal with special them make this an issue in the next State education, I should like to commend the elections. Let them stop chanting the word Government on what it has done for educa­ "Isis" as they seem to do over and over tion generally. In my electorate there is 1792 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply in operatiDU the very first School of Food, I ask you! The Minister gave a blunt and at whioh apprentice chefs are being trained. definite "No" in reply to that. Hon. members Hon. members opposite are very quiet now; opposite are not so vocal now. they were not prepared to do anything like this. They allowed these apprentices to learn The fourth part of the question reads- wherever they worked, and hoped for the "Are staff employed to clean refrigera­ best. They did not even provide a corres­ tors and walls and to do domestic work pondence course of training. The School or are teachers required to perform the of Food now operating is the first one to duties?" be established in Queensland. A further school for post-Junior training has been in This school has operated for a number of years and, for the benefit of the hon. operatic~ all this year at Coorparoo, and the Mm1ster for Education mentioned when member for South Brisbane and other presenting his Estimates that another post­ Opposition members, I may say that a Jumor school will be established in my Labour Government established the school as electorate, at Ekibin, in the following year. a boarding school. I give the Labour Party credit for that, but I do not give present Let us see what happened in this House Opposition members any credit for not put­ when the hon. member for South Brisbane ting the hon. member for South Brisbane saw fit to question the Minister for Educa­ into the picture when he has not visited tion about the Queensland School for the the school and does not know what goes Deaf. He did not even know the correct on there. Domestic staff and fully qualified name of the school; he called it the "Oral nursing staff are employed there. Deaf School". This is a boarding school in his electorate, but never once s,ince he Let me go a little further. The Minister has been a member has he visited it or indicated that a fully-trained sister is matron, even been near it. I checked that before a fully-trained sister is sub-matron, and I entered the Chamber, because I thought another sister has been appointed to the nurs­ that he may have been there since he asked ing staff. The domestic staff is under the his question. However, he has not. He has direct supervision of the matron and of the been asked by letter and gilt-edged invitation principal. to v.i_sit this school, but so uninterested is If the hon. member for South Brisbane will he in the education of deaf children that accept my invitation here and now, I am sure he has not even had a look at the place. that he will be amazed by what the Depart­ One shudders to think how a member of ment of Education provides for these children. his profess.ion could feel justified in asking such a question, particularly when the Mr. Tucker: Why do you reiterate this information on which he based it was merely when it has already been said by the given to him, as it must have been because Minister? he has not been there. Mr. HOOPER: The hon. member had an The first part of his question was­ opportunity of making a speech during the "Why are two classes conducted in one debate on the Estimates. I am making mine small classroom at the Oral Deaf School, now. Cornwall Street, Annerley?" Mr. Tucker: You are not. You are only The answer to that is that the Government reading what the Minister said. is building the finest school for deaf child­ ren in the Southern Hemisphere. Its con­ Mr. HOOPER: I am spelling out exactly struction is well under way, and the Minister what has not been spelt out in respect of quite rightly answered in that vein. the hon. member for South Brisbane. He has tried to create the impression that he has the The second part of the question was- interests of this school at heart, but he has "When two teachers are teaching in the never been near it. If the hon. member for same room at the same time, is it pos­ Townsville North does not like what I am sible for classes to concentrate on each saying, I am sorry. particular teacher?" Mr. Tucker: All you are doing is making Again, the ill-informed member of the a personal attack. Opposition shows that he has never been there to see what temporary provision has Mr. HOOPER: The hon. member for been made whilst new classrooms are being South Brisbane made an attack on the Min­ built. The Minister adequately dealt with ister, and I am answering it. The hon. mem­ that part of the question. ber forgot to mention what the school does for the children-in fact, he does not know. The third part of the question deals with His question continued- an allegation that I did not think any mem­ ber of this Assembly would ever make "Is there any infirmary for sick children against a member of the teaching staff. It or do children with contagious ailments, reads-- e.g., conjunctivitis, still have to attend "Are all letters written by teachers to class?" the children's parents censored by the I think I have answered that adequately by principal?" mentioning the number of sisters on the staff. 1793 Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply

He then asked- The equipment in this school is a&ain con­ "What medicines are available for treat­ ceded by educationists dealing With deaf ment of the children . . ." children to be the finest available in this country. In fact, educationists from all over Again, that has been answered by my state­ the country have visited this school and taken ment relative to the medical staff available. a lead from the experiments made there. The hon. member then went on to talk They are being adopted by other schools about a child who had been sunburnt, while throughout the Commonwealth. For the on a picnic. The Minister indicated that the hon. member's benefit, may I record that this child had been sunburnt and that he had been school was the first to perfect the loop aid. cared for medically. I point out to the House It was the first to effect loop aid in an that the hon. member for South Brisbane individual desk where the child could sit at tried to imply in his question that the child his or her ow~ desk and have the induction was not treated. of the hearing aid only to him or her. What He referred also to teachers being required goes on in any other part of the school is to work overtime. This is a boarding school, not inducted to them. and teachers who apply for appointment there The special floors and special linings that know that they will be rostered to look after are necessary so that there is no induction children after normal school hours. They from room to room cost thousands of dollars, expect that and accept it quite readily. yet the Opposition, and particularly the hon. I think that the record of the school should member for South Brisbane, find it necessary be included in "Hansard". Fourteen children to criticise the work done for deaf children. have recently completed the Junior public examination-it is now a secondary school We look back and remember that during -and they have been given the opportunity, the years when Labour was in office-! hav_e under Country-Liberal Governments, to already given a Labour Government credit undertake secondary studies. Under former for establishing this school-they talked Labour Governments, children had to do the about rebuilding this school; they talked best they could for themselves. about moving it to another site. They talked Yesterday the principal of the school a great deal, exactly as they are today, about attended the teachers' college and found, as what they would do. However, when ~:me he always has in the past, a very great looks at what has been done one realises interest on the part of the young people who that actions speak a great deal louder than will be going out next year to teach children words. such as those at this school and at the "Nar­ As I said Labour spoke about rebuilding bethong" school for the blind. This school this school, but it was not until the late Jack will lose four teachers, for various reasons, Pizzey decided that it could be done, b~t at the end of the year, and the principal is that it had to be done piecemeal because It seeking replacements for them and nine addi­ was a boarding-school type of institution that tional teachers. There is no doubt that they naturally could not be pulled down in toto, will be obtained, and, as has been indicated that it was done. It had to be pulled down by both the present Minister and the former piecemeal, but it has been done very well Minister, the average class that a teacher can by the architects and the department so that take care of adequately is eight children. the least amount of disturbance was caused, If hon. members, including the hon. mem­ particularly to the children who board there ber who asked the question to which I have and also to the day pupils. been referring, would like to pay a visit to the This is why we find that in some rooms school, the principal is always prepared to at the present time speci~l equipment ~as show groups of people over it. The first to be installed temporanly, With special class room block has been in use for three partitions so that there is no induction from years, and it is conceded by educationists all one room to another. But this po~iti~n will over Australia to be the finest block in the be overcome entirely by ~he begmmng <:f Southern Hemisphere for teaching deaf the next school year. We Will see the demoh­ children. The second block is almost com­ tion of the old eyesore that has been there pleted-in fact, the lino is being laid on the for so m~nv years. The administration block floor today-and it will be occupied by the and the old dormitory block will be P~Il!ed beginning of the next school year. It was down, and a new administrati~n block, d1~1~g built by the Department of Works. rooms and laundry will be bmlt. The MmJ'­ A further dormitory block is almost com­ ter has already indicated this in his Estimates. pleted, and we hope it will be ready for the children early in the coming school year. Th;s is a very progressive tvpe of ~ch?ol. Another dormitory block is also almost com­ and I should like to commend the pnnc1pal pleted. This makes four dormitory blocks, nf the deaf school and the principal of the two completed and two almost completed, blind school. In doing this rn~v I 8lso ready for occupation next year. The Opposi­ remind hon. members that the deaf school tion is very silent. The hon. member for provides boarding accommodation for blin_d South Brisbane can be very critical of what students. This accommodation. of course. rs is going on there, but he is not prepared taken care of by the staff of the deaf ~chool. to pay any tribute for what has actually But to show how progressive the principals been done. of both these schools are, they brought a 57 1794 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply project to the parents and citizens' associa­ should look closely at this matter, because tion-it was taken on to the Mini"Ster to s::e if future members of the associatiOn, or if the department would give approval to it­ teachers for that matter, do not feel as \Vhich, I believe, is something new, something strongly as present members about the pro­ of an innovation. The parents and citizens' ject we should ensure that they have the associations of both these schools propose backing and the attention of the Department to build a holiday home-cum-project home of Education to maintain the project as a at a near-country seaside resort for the moving one. children of both these schools. Our desire to carry on with this The department, through the Minister, !-.as project has been strengthened by the success graciously agreed to make available to us a of the scheme this year to send children building that is to be demolished. It will from the deaf school to the youth camp be rebuilt and the activities envisaged are at Tallebudgera Creek while students at that the children. in classes, will go to this ordinary schools were sitting for their near-country residence, which will be built examinations. The syllabus for the day according to the requirements of the local indicates just what can be done for these authority. There the children will have children, so we are eagerly looking forward not a week's holiday, as such, but a 5pecified to carrying out this project. time in which to engage in certain projects, I have ment;onecl that the classrooms and particularly a "getting to know you" pro­ dormitory blocks at the deaf school are very ject. Seminars will be held at which children well equipped. Adequate safety measures will learn not only school work but also, in have been taken, particularly in the dormi­ particular, home etiquette. We must remem­ tory blocks. Supervision of the children is ber that deaf and blind children face a maintained throughout the night. The tremendous problem in learning home equipment that is installed in the classrooms etiquette, for it is something that their parents has to be seen to be believed. The Govern­ sometimes tend to neglect and overlook. ment, through the Minister, has never been stinting in the assistance that it has rendered The teachers at the deaf school willingly to the deaf school. On any occasion when support the idea of taking the children away we have asked for the provision of equip· on these projects. The habits of the ment it has been supplied, and on no children who attend day classes are not occasion have we had to request an outside known to the teachers, the matron and the organisation to assist us in providing educa­ nursing staff. Naturally, of course, the tional aids. habits of the boarding students are known. The students who attend the blind and deaf I commend the Minister and his depart­ schools will be taken away under strict super­ ment, and I express grateful thanks to Mr. vision and strict medical care to be taught Wood for his keen and everlasting interest in the simple every-day .things that more for­ this type of school. In June of this year tunate children are taught at an earlier age. the school found that it had adequate equip­ They will be taught how to feed themselves ment for teaching deaf children, and properly, how to dress themselves adequate facilities for boarding both deaf properly, and how to perform all the other and blind children. But that did not satisfy every-day tasks that more fortunate children the department, the Minister or Mr. Wood. learn at a very early age. They came to us and asked if there was anything else we would like. We went into Perhaps some of us do not realise that this the matter, and the department supplied problem exists, but unfortunately it does. extra aids for the school, which I will To alleviate the problem that faces these mention for the record because they have children, the parents and citizens' associa­ been of tremendous assistance to the teachers tion has taken the wonderful step of institut­ at the school. ing these projects, and I commend the The Government provided these items Minister for supporting them and enabling of equipment for the deaf school, early in them to be undertaken. June, additional to the existing equipment- Only last night, after many meetings the 2 16 mm. Bell and Howell film pro­ parents and citizens' association decided to jectors of the latest design; get down to business, and the honorary 2 Tudor film strip projectors; architect is drawing up the plans for the 1 modern overhead projector for implementation of the scheme. I should like language development work. to commend the South Brisbane Rotary Club for '"coming to the party" and assisting in The Minister will be pleased to hear that the transport of materials to the area. I at a seminar in the South in August we feel sure that when the project is under found we were the envy of all the other way we will derive benefit from it in the deaf schools in Australia. \'ears to come. The list continues- I know that some people suggest that ! high-fidelity stereogram built to special certain members of parents and citizens' specifications for deaf children with associations are here today and gone responses between 50 and 12,000 decibels. tomorrow. and that possibly next year a This is a marve11ous aid because we just can­ parents and citizens' association may be not use ordinary everyday equipment for composed of a completely new team. We teaching deaf children. Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1795

The list also includes- $2,415,000. Today it is $5,854,000. 5 speech-perception films imported from agree with the statement that we are not the University of Southern California for spending enough on primary industries in speech work with our deaf children. this State, but in this respect the Labour Party stands indicted. If I have any criticism at all, it is that we could have another speech therapist. We Members of the Labour Party could claim have one but we could do with another, that they are not responsible for the sins of although I know that they are very difficult their forefathers. But I think that this to get. demonstrates a lack of sincerity on their part in solving the problems of rural indus­ Further items included in the list are- tries. It is quite understandable, when they 6 amplivox speech-training units for get their riding instructions from the Trades speech correction work with our deaf Hall and the Labour unions, as they do on children; this question, that they do not have the t automatic electric Roneo machine for interests of primary producers at heart and preparing programmes of work and other are not sincere in the proposals they raise associated work required by the teachers. in this House. This is required ever so much more than The Minister referred, when introducing in a normal school. An ordinary school his Estimates, to the contribution which the can manage with one Roneo machine, but Commonwealth Government is making to that is impossible in a special school. research and extension in primary industries in Queensland. He intimated that the After all the "bugging" by the hon. Commonwealth Government last year con­ member for South Brisbane when he was tributed $754,624 in extension grants to the trying to get under the Minister's skin, I States for regional research and extension. feel sure that he will some day accept the He said that the Commonwealth Govern­ invitation to visit this school. I do not ment is contributing to agricultural research know how we will get him there; it seems within the Department of Primary Industries to be impossible. We have tried to get him through the various joint Commonwealth­ there ever since he became the member for Industry funds which are financed by a the district. If he does visit the school and collection of levies agreed to by the tobacco, sees what is done, I am sme he will not wheat, livestock and dairying industries, plus be critical of it in the future, and that a subsidy from the Commonwealth Govern­ he will commend the Minister and Mr. Wood ment. On top of this, the fruit and vege­ for the great work that is being done for table growers of Queensland continue to the children at the deaf school. assist the department materially with finan­ Resolution 3-Department of Education cial and equipment grants. This shows that and Cultural Activities-agreed to. the Commonwealth Government has acknowledged the worth of agricultural Resolution 4-Department of Primary research and extension as a national invest­ Industries- ment, and I use the word "investment" M:r, AHERN (Landsborough) (4.58 p.m.): advisedly because it is an investment, not a I did not have an opportunity to speak cost, to the nation. The United States survey on the Estimates of the Department of on the cost of and likely return from Primary Industries, so I now gladly take various government expenditure found that advantage of this opportunity. I commend the investments in agricultural research and Mini~ter ar:d his department on the competent extension returned $10 to the nation for way m which they are administering primary every $1 invested. That is a tenfold return. industries in Queensland and progressively Surely that is an attractive investment for solving the very tricky problems that con­ the Commonwealth Government. front primary producers. The Commonwealth Government has I take issue with certain statements made recently advised, through its agency, the br the hon. member for Port Curtis during Department of Trade, that if we are to his speech on the department's Estimates. maintain the existing growth in our living He chided the Government with not spend­ standards in this country-and surely that ing enough through the agency of the Depart­ is advisable and desirable-we must double ment of Primary Industries in the light of the export earnings of this country by 1975, the relative importance of primary industries which is not very far away. With all the to the economy of Queensland. I cannot aura of glory which surrounds the mineral disagree with what he said on that occasion development in Western Australia and the but I think it is particularly relevant, when wonderful coal development in Queensland, a member of the Opposition raises such a it will still be left to primary industries to point, to draw an analogy with what happened shoulder the greater part of this increased in relation to this department in pre-1957 export -earning effort. days. From an examination of the tables The big battle will be for increased prices. that the Treasurer provided so that we could I believe that this battle is going on at a study more capably his Financial Statement rate today which cannot be excelled. Every it will be seen that, in 1958-59, the expendi~ possible country has an agreement with ture of the State of Queensland on the Australia, including many countries which Department of Primary Industries was never had agreements with this country 1796 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

before and were never likely to under increasing degree, the larger, successful governments of other political colours, and farmers. They are all directly interested every effort has been made to obtain in research and its applications, and it is increased prices for our primary and secon­ through regional centres to which I have dary products under international agree­ referred that the most effective use will be ments. We will need increased production made of the results of basic research work. and agricultural efficiency. This is where All of this must be integrated, Vhrough a agricultural research comes into its own. I regional centre, into a local situation, such say that the Commonwealth Government as that which might apply in the brigalow should "come to the party" to a greater area, the Wide Bay dairying area, the extent in Queensland, which is the most Fassifern area, or the Darling Downs. fertile field for this research, to provide incentives for primary producers to increase The roles of government and private­ production and, by so doing, their profits. enterprise bodies who are interested in this Investment in agricultural research is, from type of research differ rather markedly. the Commonwealth Government's and the Government agencies have over the years nation's point of view, much more profitable adopted the stand uhat their work is done than investment in water conservation. That for the benefit of the nation and the taxpayers, is an undeniable fact. and it is only right that that should be so because the Commonwealth relies on I have said already that I feel .that the increased export earnings and an increased Minister for Primary Industries should Gross National Product. But private industry approach the Commonwealth Government -the seed, fertiliser and chemical companies with a view to having a uniform super­ -surely has its sights set on different goals. phosphate price negotiated for Australia. A private company could well be motivated Queensland at present uses only 2 per cent. by self-interest and profit. However, reliable of the superphosphate being used in companies-most of the companies in this Australia. This will increase substantially field in Queensland are reliable-have found in the future. Research !has shown that that long-term profits depend ultimately there are 150,000,000 acres of potential on increasing the farmer's profit and, hence, pasture land in Queensland. That will his capacity to pay for more fertiliser or require a lot of superphosphate, and what chemicals. is holding back its use at the present time is the high cost of freight on it. The It is only right that the efforts of these Commonwealth Government has already different interests should be directed towards recognised the worth of freimht subsidies one specific problem, and the regional com­ on superphosphates by making them available mittees or regional centres should have only for selected projects in the Northern one aim-to increase the profits of farmers. Territory. I feel that this should be taken The main basis of their operations should be a step forward and that, especially in the economic, and I am aware that the depart­ interests of export action, ·a uniform super­ ment is already sending economists into phosphate price should be established for country areas to ensure that the work being Australia in the very near future. If it recommended is properly evaluated economic­ is not negotiated now, it will be more ally. difficult to do so at a later stage when Work of the type to which I am referring Queensland's percentage of ~he amount used was not given very great importance until nationally has substantially increased. I the Country-Liberal Government came to hope the Commonwealth Government has office. However anachronistic and silly it the vision to allow this investment in might sound, the Economic Services Branch research and extension work to oontinue at of the Department of Primary Industries did least at its present level, and preferably at not exist prior to 1957, and it is unfortunate an expanded rate in the future. that, even today, the resources nf the branch The Minister referred during the presen­ are not big enough to meet fully the needs tation of his Estimates to an increasing of all sections of primary industry. Its efforts tendency in his department to encourage the are oriented towards several specific industries, use of regional committees or centres to and there are many other industries that focus the research effort on problems of would increase their profits if the economic top priority in each area. I should like rule was put over their operations. to commend Ibis department on this attitude. I feel that this is a very worthy means When the Treasurer introduced the Budget of approach to particular problems, as the a couple of months ago, he said that $500,000 value of this type of thing has been proved had been allocated in order to keep top­ elsewhere throughout Australia and in other ranking public servants in the Public Service countries. The day when the Department of this State and to provide them with an of Primary Industries and C.S.I.R.O. were economic incentive to remain here. I believe the only parties interested in agricultural that it is of vital importance that the research and extension has gone. Today Department of Primary Industries should many people are interested in this type of retain the services of people whom it has work, and it is right that they should be gone to a great deal of tmuble and expense interested. I refer to seed compan~es, to train. In my opinion, in the past industrial fertiliser companies, chemical compames, commissions have not recognised the status farm-management consultants, and, to an of scientists in this State in comparison with Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1797

officers of the C.S.I.R.O. and private com­ Mr. AHERN: I am saying that that is panies, and have not taken into account the the only way we can achieve anything on increasing demand from overseas. I hope it, and the Australian Agr:icultural Council that the Minister for Primary Industries can is the agency which will see that agree­ get his hands on some of that $500,000 and ment is carried out or otherwise. It is quite a ridiculous situation when in each apply it in the interests of the rural industries State, around Sydney, around Brisbane, and of this State. around Melbourne, farmers have much It is the responsibility of the Minister for money invested in milk supply plants in Primary Industries to represent Queensland milk supply areas, and each State is ruining on the Australian Agricultural Council, and the markets of the others. That is happen­ I commend him for his work as a member ing and I urge the Minister to give a11 of that council. Its work is of great his energies to seeing that this particular importance to primary industries in Queens­ agreement is reached. I think it is of para­ land and, although much has been achieved mount importance that it be reached, and already, a great deal remains to be done. I say that the Agricultural Council is the It is particularly pertinent to the dairy only means by which this problem will be industry. Much has been said in this House solved. and in the Press recently about the entry This does not apply only to the dairying of dairy products from New South Wales to industry; it applies more so to the citrus indus­ the Brisbane milk market, and I deplore their try in Queensland. I have knowledge of this entry. Much has been said about the entry of industry and I saw it get into a lot. of ultra-high-treated milk onto the Queensland trouble this year as a result of opemt10ns market from Victoria. Other products known covered by section 92 of the Australian as "Refresha" and "Vigour", which are milk Constitution. Thousands of cases of Sydney in a poor disguise, are being brought into citrus arrived onto our market at critical the Queensland market situation. I realise periods for the Queensland pro~ucer~. Surely that this is happening. It is serious and it is this situation is not faiT to our Citrus mdustry. not unique to Queensland. New South Wales is feeling the pinch from milk products Mr. Hanson: And much of it was over­ coming from Victoria. Quite a number of mature, too. New South Wales products are on the Mr. AHERN: As the hon. member for Victorian market, and in the future, if this Po.rt Curtis says, much of it was over­ trend is to continue, there will oe many mature but I think that situation is under Queensland products on the Sydney and Mel­ control' now. Equally, it would be a silly bourne markets. There, surely, is quite a silly situation if our citrus were allowed to go situation. down onto the southern market at a par­ It has been suggested that there should ticularly critical period for those growers be an absolute price on milk products, as and destroy their market at that time. It a solution of Queensland's problem in this does not usually occur to the New South respect. If it is a solution I will support Wales market for many reasons, but it it; I hope it is. However, I know that happened that way in Queenslan~ thi~ y~ar. I know that Queensland agrees m pnnc1ple the Solicitors-General of the States have to a production rationalisation scheme on for yeaTS been looking longingly but with a national scale for the citrus industry, futility at section 92 of the Australian Con­ again through the agency of the Aus­ stitution. If we introduce legislation of this tralian Agricultural Council. However, New particular type, I express the personal opinion South Wales suffers from a high degree that it would fall in the High Court of of disorganisation in its citrus industry, and Australia. that is the stumbling block to reaching Mr. Hughes: Are you suggesting pegging national agreement on the industry's policies. a minimum price for milk? On behalf of the citrus industry of Queens­ Mr. AHERN: I am suggesting that this land, I urge the Minister to do all that he can only be resolved through the agency of can to bring some sensible thinking to bear the Australian Agricultuml Council. This on the industry and on section 92 of the sort of legislation has been tried before, not Commonwealth Constitution. My remarks only in the dairying industry with its variety apply not only to the citrus industry but also of products; it has been tried in regard to a wide variety of small-crop and other to potatoes and many other products, and industries, such as the banana industry. it has fallen down. A solution can be achieved only through the agency of the In his Estimates the Minister referred Australian Agricultural Council, where particularly to the increased realisation by Ministers from each State with the heads his department of the need to institute farm­ of their departments come together and talk management planning. I commend him for about an agreement. Surely there must that. I commend the sugar industry for be agreement. taking the initiative in this matter by saying that it will, as an industry, have a look at Mr. Murray: Do you think an under­ improving its farm-management services. That standing between the States can be reached is vital to that industry, and to other Queens­ on this? land primary industries. It is encouraging 1798 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply to see that the Department of Primary Indus­ consider givmg it some support. This is a tries realises this, for very real benefits can new idea in Australia, although it is not new accrue from increased farm-management overseas. In the interest of primary planning in Queensland. In other States for industries in Queensland we should keep up a considerable time it has been well realised to date with overseas developments so that that many benefits can be gained from this we will not be left behind the other States work. In overseas countries and in Western when they adopt them. Australia and New South Wales it has been shown that farm profits can be doubled by Today, our primary industries are facing some very tough problems, including that th~ mere reorganisation of farming enter­ pnses. Surely it is worth while for our of decreasing prices on world markets. All Department of Primary Industries to look that can be done is being done in this respect but, nevertheless, it is true that most pro­ int~ this matter. We should implement a pohcy of farm-management on an increasing ducts are suffering from the rapid decline scale in the future. in overseas prices, with the exception of sugar. I understand the world free price I should like the Minister to look again for it today was £stg.27 a ton, which shows at the possibility of registering farm-manage­ that the International Sugar Agreement is ~ent consultants in Queensland. The sugar working. No-one can deny that the increase mdustry has taken a very worth-while initia­ in costs of rural industries is about 4 per tive in promoting the concept of farm-man­ cent. a year. That is pretty staggering for agement consulting. It is really starting to industries whose prices are not increasing move in this State. Other States have at the same time. regretted the fact that they have not con­ sidered registering farm consultants because There is a great need in every facet of it is now too late to institute such a scheme primary industry to study the problems of as some people would have to be culled out. rural adjustment. The dairying section is That stage has not been reached in Queens­ one which has had many problems of adjust­ land, so if we can act now in the matter ment thrust on it by the situation in Queens­ we should experience no trouble. As a mat­ land today. Many other industries, face not ter of urgency we should again look at this only the cost-price squeeze, but also the proposal because it contains many worth­ problem of much higher land prices. They while points. have had to increase the size of their opera­ tions to cope with production problems in I should now like to compliment the the Australian scene. The dairying industry departrr:ent for its efforts in my electorate. will soon have thrust upon it an amalgama­ There Is no doubt that its efforts at the tion scheme to assist it to adjust itself to Coolum Research Station have provided a the new Australian situation. These are very valuable basis for the development of the big, tearing adjustments, which the industry wallum country. Its research efforts have must make. been of tremendous importance not only to the wa!lum country but also right through­ There is a proposal in New South Wale' out the hmter!and that lies behind the typical to establish a national rural adjustment wallum country. A tremendous pasture centre. I should like the Minister to consider e:cplo~ion has occurred. The pasture expan­ supporting such a centre in Queensland. The swn m that area has been so great that in relatively slow growth in primary production several cases landholders have been able and the poor export prospects for a lot to obtain an 80 per cent. return on invest­ of products, coupled with advances in ~ent. That means that for every $1 ,000 technology and changes in economies an~! mvested a yearly return of $800 can be scale, all point to the need for considerable achieved. Research carried out on the wal­ a<;~justments in rural industry. Changing lum lands is worth while, and it has chanued circumstances are also creating problems the most inherently infertile soils in the Jor the wealthier sections of agriculture. ~orld to ~oils of the same fertility and carry­ ,Finance problems in rural ,industry today Ing capacity as land on the Darling Downs. ,are very real ones. Labour supply and Wallum land was once land on which horses ;organisation is another problem. Pressures and even wallabies died, but today it can Jor horizontal and vertical integration have carry up to 12 sheep per acre, and turn off ,a very serious effect on the Australian up to 400 lb. of beef to the acre. The primary industry scene today, particularly in research has enabled a lot of countrv the broiler industry. That industry is in that previously could not be developed to the throes of problems brought about by be opened up for development, and it ha~ both horizontal and vertical integration. made a worth-while contribution to the State's These are very big problems for an industry industries. to attack on its own. I believe that we need a national rural adjustment committee Mr. Sullivan: The hon. member for Mary­ to investigate problems of rural adjustment. borough disagrees with that. as has been done overseas, with a view to seeing if we can benefit by some of the work Mr. AHERN: I do not know whether he done overseas, to carry out research into does or not. those problems, and to recommend some In the limited time still available to me chanr>es in policies to the various State I should like to raise one further matter that Ministers, through the Australian Agricul­ I ask the Minister to study, and then to tural Council. It has been called a ''think Supp{v (26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1799 tank" on the problems of national rural all. However, I shall read extracts which adjustment. When the subject is looked point quite definitely to the fact that the ::~t objectively it can be seen that it is vital cane-growers of this State did not favour to do some research into rural adjustment. either the rate or the scope of the expansion. Very little research is going on at the present The sugar industry and the cane-growers time. I should like the Minister to look have always accepted their responsibility to closely at this proposal and support it if expand within reasonable risks of prudent he considers it worthy of support. It is business practice. In the short time since proposed that it should operate through the World War 11 there have been several University of New England. It is a planned, sensible expansion programmes, tremendous idea which is worthy of the which, although they created problems for consideration of Queensland. the industry, did not cripple the foundations I again commend the Department of on which the industry rested. Primary Industries on the competent way in Here are some extracts from the sub­ which it is going about the job in Queens­ missions presented by the deputation from the land and particularly on its achievements Queensland Cane Growers' Council, consist­ in my electorate which mean a good deal ing of its chairman, two vice-chairmen, and of money and profit to the primary producers acting secretary of the time- of Landsborough. "lmplementation of the expansion Mr. BLAKE (Isis) (5.31 p.m.): Mr. measures recommended would amount to Speaker-- a departure from a system of orderly development of the sugar industry based Opposition Members~ Hear, hear! on secure long-term market outlets at reasonably remunerative prices ... "'Ir. BLAKE: Firstly, I should like to "At all times the cane-growing industry express my appreciation to those who have has been conscious of the implications of welcomed me, both inside and outside the the present status of the International Chamber, and to those who assisted in Sugar Agreement and of the likely events my election to this Parliament. which would flow from more normal con­ Secondly, I should like to pay a tribute ditions of marketing under such a world to the former Premier, the late Honourable commodity agreement. Jack Pizzey, who was my political opponent "We cannot share the committee's but was also my friend and the friend of optimism regarding the outcome of such most people in the electorate of Isis and an agreement . . . in the State of Queensland. "The whole of this recommended expan­ The subject of this debate surely deals sion is designed to take advantage of ~vith the welfare of primary industry, which markets which are not guaranteed as to 1s not yet of minor importance in the tonnage or price. economy of this State, although the treat­ ''If they should disappear or be sub­ ment that it is receiving woulcl suggest that stantially reduced or be available only at it is. The welfare of the people engaged an uneconomically low price, then the in primary industry is surely more important sugar will not be acquired and the cane than statistics in primary industry. There­ grown to manufacture will have to be fore, it must be the concern of any Gov­ ploughed back." ernment to think of the welfare of the people This was the experience of lesser expansions engaged in it. prior to this one. The submissions continue- There are some inescapable hazards that "The present overseas position is favour­ primary producers must face, namely, flood, able, but on the basis of past experience it drought, fire and disease, but perhaps the would be unduly optimistic to assume that most costly and unnecessary hazard is the this high level of world free market prices, failure of Governments to recognise the or even reasonably remunerative prices rural domestic policies of some industries. overseas, will continue indefinitely or even A prime example of this is the Government's for a term giving the requisite security to failure to recognise the domestic policy of the development of such additional areas of the Queensland cane-grower. It has been said cane lands as recommended." by Government members that the sugar The submissions go on to state- industry favoured the scope and extent of "The assignment of 150,000 new acres the recent sugar industry expansion. This is and the settlement of 1,000 new growers only a half-truth. It is quite true that the immediately would create a situation from milling interests did support the rate and which in the event of a substantial slump scope of the expansion. But it is not true from the present buoyant position of the that the cane-growing organisation in Queens­ world free market, a retreat could only land supported it. In fact, it emphatically be undertaken at great cost to the economy advised the Government against it. Its re­ of all cane-growers and perhaps the presentatives went to the then Premier, Mr. general community of the State. (now Sir Francis) Nicklin with a written "In such an unfortunate eventuality, the submission on 11 November. 1963. It was new growers in the throes of establishing quite a lengthy submission and I shall not production might well be that section of take up the time of the House reading it the industry hardest hit. 1800 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

"It is true that a certain degree of for the cases you have put up and for the increased production is desirable in the soundness of your arguments, but surely light of present market opportunities, but that is a ridiculous statement." If that this can be achieved by means other than debt of $23,000,000 is carried through with the extension measures recommended." the addition of the interest accruing till it I put it to the House that that was a remark­ is fully paid and applied to the two years able document in that it foretold with great in which the loan was used to finance. those accuracy what was going to happen in this two crops, I suggest-! wait for my sugges­ industry if the expansion was carried out tion to be denied successfully-that, using on the scale and at the rate at which it was. Cane Growers' Council cost-of-production That submission was ignored by the figures, the crops in those two years were Government, and what is happening now is produced at a loss. only a matter of history repeating itself. How does the industry get away from The Tory Denham Government in 1913 was that situation? The market is top-heavy under pressure from the cane-growers of this with free-market, dump-price sugar. The Sta~e to bring in a sugar-cane prices Bill industry has to depend on an International which would give a fairer price for the cane Sugar Agreement, and it supports fully the that they produced. At that time the miller argument that a successful International was in the happy position where he decided Sugar Agreement is the only instrument that what price he would pay the grower for his can get the sugar industry in Queensland cane, and that is probably the sweetest off the far end of the limb to which it has situation that ever existed for anyone in a been pushed. If it is not possible to reach sweet industry. That Bill reached the second­ an international agreement that will lift the reading stage under the Denham Government world price of sugar to a height at which but, under pressure from the millers it was Queensland growers can produce half of dropped; the Government would not proceed their sugar for firm markets and the other with it. Subsequently the Denham Govern­ half even on reduced quotas of 28 per ment was roundly defeated, and in 1915 a cent., which have been applied, and a Labour Government was elected. In its first further 10 per cent., which is going to be session, that Government introduced the applied, it will be necessary to come back Regulation of Sugar Cane Prices Act under very close to the target of expansion that which this industry operated quite ~uccess­ the Queensland Cane Growers' Council fully from that time till a few years ago. recommended originally. That can only imply ~t was one of Labour's "firsts" in the sugar that the excessive expansion, the years of mdustry, and many others followed, under hardship that have been caused, the debt that men such as Ryan and Forgan Smith They has been incurred, and the money that has negotiated the Australian Sugar Ag~eement been put into that expansion, must go down and the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement, the drain. That cannot be a good business ~ut the be~efits of that far-sighted legisla­ principle, no matter what industry or busi­ tiOn on which the industry rested have been ness one is engaged in. One can only afford evaporating rapidly over the past four to the amount of risk capital which, if it fails, five years. will not bankrupt the parent organisation. Mr. Anthony says that the industry is This is what has been done by legislation: looking for a scapegoat. One does not have the sugar industry, particularly the cane­ !o lo~k far to find who the scapegoats are growing section of it, has been put into a !n this excessive expansion of the sugar situation in which it depends entirely on mdustry. The farmers are the scapegoats. the state of the world free market for its ~n two years of production they have prosperity or otherwise, because the mcurred a debt of $23,000,000 with the 1,100,000 tons of sugar for which the indus­ !'ederal Government; in one year alone they try has a guaranteed price cannot balance mcurred a debt of $19,000,000 in repayable the amount, even under the present quota ~oans. T~e impression in the cane-growing system, that it has at producers' risk on the mdustry IS that that loan is free of interest world free market. ~ntil 1970 an~ that repayments do not begin til11970; yet, m the balance sheet of the Sugar This expansion has been a glorious success Board, I find that the interest and the bank for most sections of the community. It has charges of transferring that loan of been a glorious success for the fuel com­ $19,000,000 from Federal monetary sources panies, the fertiliser companies, the chemical to the State totalled $777,587 in the first companies, the foundries and the tractor and year. In the next year, which was last year, machinery firms; but the poor bunny who has a further debt of a repayable loan of to redeem at least two-thirds of the loans is $4,000,000 was incurred. In all, a debt of the cane-cocky himself. In other words, we $23,000,000 was incurred on the production have a situation where the national earnings of two years that the farmers of this State overseas are still in a healthy condition even consider to be two of the glorious years of with reduced prices for overseas sales of production in the history of the industry. sugar-we are producing twice as much at half the price-and, from the national earn­ When I said that I was making less money ings point of view, it is still a success. But out of 5.000 tons of cane that I cut now why should the cane-farmer be the one who than I used to make out of 1,700 or 1,800 has to underwrite this prosperity in the com­ tons, I was told, "You have been admired munity? Why should he have to saddle up to Supp~v [26 NOVEMBER) Supply 1801 it by repayable loans? He is quite willing to in the sugar industry. Statistically it is a huge earn overseas credits for the nation, but he success, and, as I have said, economically believes that if this is the objective of Gov­ it is a success for a large section of the ernments for the sugar industry, he should community. But it has represented nothing be assisted by grants, not by repayable loans. but retrogression in the living standards of Coming back to the proposals under the those who are engaged in it. This is not international agreement, 28 per cent. reduc­ rural justice. The Labour Party has never tion is what has been quoted in negotiations, been guilty of ignoring the domestic policy and now a further 10 per cent. may be neces­ of Queensland's cane-growers or of those sary to make prices rise to a reasonable level, engaged in any other rural industry. I hope and also a further 5 per cent., which brings us that the present Government does not again very close, as I said, to the scope of expansion get the opportunity of ignoring the domestic envisaged by the cane-growers themselves policies of our rural industries. While I am talking about the International Sugar Agreement, the previous speaker said Mr. ARMSTRONG (Mulgrave) (5.51 p.m.): that the price has risen to £Stg.27 a ton and Firstly, let me congratulate the new hon. that this was evidence that the agreement is member for lsis on having had the good working. Hon. members probably know as fortune to win the seat with a very slight well as I do that there is no agreement; margin, although approximately 1,000 there is a draft agreement but it has yet to electors did not vote. be ratified, and even if it does become an agreement it lacks what we were told in May Opposition Members interjected. of this year was one of the vital ingredients Mr. ARMSTRONG: I should also like to to make it work. It was said in Geneva that congratulate him on his maiden speech and a vital ingredient to make the International hope that he does not emulate the manners Sugar Agreement effective was the partici­ of many of his colleagues in this House. At pation of the European Common Market. least Government members have the decency However, the European Common Market is to sit quietly and listen to what speakers have not a participant. In addition, the agreement to say. This morning I witnessed a Minister does not have the blessing of the United sitting peacefully and quietly taking all the States. criticism-and not all of it was constructive­ Through my official capacity as a cane­ that the Leader of the Opposition could growers' executive member, I know of official muster. But as soon as a Minister rises to rumours that the administration of the United answer members of the Opposition, what is States is thinking of again talking sugar trade the attitude of members of the Opposition? with Cuba. If these things happen, this They remind me of a pack of howling dogs. agreement will not be successful or effective. A member cannot ever hear himself speak. Even if it does become as effective as previ­ I have witnessed such a display on many ous agreements, which only reached the floor occasions when I have risen to speak, and price 56 per cent. of the time they were in this afternoon was no exception. operation, there could still be a very tough and dismal economic future ahead of the Mr. Mann: When we speak we always Queensland canegrower owing to the extent have a bark. You fellows don't bark very of quotas he has on world market prices. often. The only way that he will be able to retrieve Mr. ARMSTRONG: I do not care what the situation is for the Government to live members of the Opposition do, and I am up to its responsibility and subsidise export not very interested. sugar._ If that is found to be too expensive, we will have to retract further within more Opposition Members interjected. profitable markets. That is definite proof, Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The only way I as the world position has shown that this can make myself heard above the inter­ expansion was excessive, unwarr~nted, and unwise. jections of hon. members on my left is by shouting in the same manner as they are. The business world is littered with skeletons I dislike having to do this, but I warn hon. of enterprises that have been foolish enough members on my left that if they persist with to over-expand. We do not mind stimulating their interjections somebody will suffer for it. the economy-the sugar industry has never shirked expansion on a sound basis-and we Mr. ARMSTRONG: As I have said, the will go on increasing production, if necessary, behaviour of hon. members opposite is not to earn overseas credits, provided we are not unusual and it does not worry me a great the bunnies who have to carry the economics deal, but I do like to be heard because I want of unprofitable production. to make a few points as I develop my speech. There is talk of great development in this I congratulate the newly elected member State, but development is not necessarily on his maiden speech. He had an example of progress unless it benefits the people who are decency from this side of the House, because producing it or taking part in it. A great we paid him the courtesy of listening to him many of our rural industries have developed in silence. However, that does not always over the last few years. Of particular signifi­ happen when a newly elected Government cance is the development that has occurred member makes his maiden speech. We 1802 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply always extend courtesy and decency to mem­ remember what my colleague Tom Gilmore bers of the Opposition, but we never get the did when he entered the Federal P'al'liament same in return from them. Of course, I am in 1949. It was a sorry day for the not surprised, because I have known members tobacco industTy when he was defeated. of the Opposition for a number of years. Look what this Government has done for the tobacco industry. Hon. members opposite The newly elected member for Isis said who are interjecting will know all about that Governments lack interest in primary it after the next election. In case the people industries, or words to that effect, meaning have forgotten, I will tell them what the to say that both Federal and State Gov­ Labour Government did for tobacco-growers ernments have not done much for primary -precisely nothing! This Government made industries during the last few years. He the companies increase the percentage of then pointed out, as many of us do from local tobacco in cigarettes very markedly time to time, the very important part played until it now represents about 50 per cent. by primary industries, not only in Queens­ T:hat increase has taken place since 1949, land but throughout Australia. I have said and is just an indication of what has on more than one occasion that we are happened in one industry. What happened still very dependent on our primary indus­ in the wheat and beef industries? tries and that we will continue to be so dependent for a number of years to come. An Opposition Member interjected. Both the Queensland Government and the Mr. ARMSTRONG: I am telling hon. Federal Government realises that, and no members opposite a few home truths, which Government has done more than this one I want them to listen to, about what the in the fielcl of research and in every other various Governments have done. field to asstst primary industries. We have We would not have sold even a screw only to examine statistics to realise~! am sure the hon. member for Isis knows this to one of the most important countries -what has taken place in the sugar industry that we are trading with today if we had through 'research, and, as I have told hon. listened to the Labour Party of Australia, members opposite time and time again, this but we now have the Japanese Trade Agree­ has been accompliflhed at the sugar industry's ment. Hon. members opposite are very silent expense. on that score. They opposed the agreement tooth and nail, vigorously and bitterly. The hon. member went on to say, amongst Thanks to the Japanese Trade Agreement, other things, that the Den:ham Government what is the position today? would not have anything to do with the [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] legislation under which we have operated for a number of years, but he did not tell Mr. ARMSTRONG: Before the meal us who was the architect of this legislation. recess I was endeavouring to point out the He left us with the idea that it was a attitude of the Australian Labour Party good old Labour Party thought, but that is towards the trade agreement which the Deputy not correct. If hon. members read through Prime Minister, who is Leader of the Aus­ the annals of history they will find that tralian Country Party and Minister for Trade. the originator of this idea was not a Labour negotiated with Japan some years ago. When man. The man who conceived this idea he was ratifying that agreement the Federal was none other than a man named Craw­ Opposition opposed it bitterly. It would ford, but he could not convince his Govern­ have been a sad day for Australia if we ment (Opposition laughter). I do not deny had had a Labour Government on that that. He put it forward as a private member's occasion. If we had, we would not have motion. had the trade which we are now enjoying What did the Labour Party do when with Japan, and which we are pleased to it attained office? It stole this idea, just enjoy. as it steals many othffi' things. Today it I also point out and put on record, in view is trying to fool people by saying, "Put of what the previous speaker said about the us in and we will look after primary lack of interest shown by both the State industry." I remember what the good old and the Federal Governments in primary Labour Government did for the tobacco industries over the years, that the Common­ industry. The hon. member for Tablelands wealth Government. in conjunction with was not here in those days; he would not the Queensland Government, brought into know anything about it. We could not get being the tobacco stabilisation scheme, which Labour to do anything for the tobacco­ has meant a good deal to this industry. growers. The scheme put the industry on the road Mr. Wallis-Smith: Who provided the water to success. Those in the industry know where lor the tobacco? they are going and those who lead the industry are happy with this arrangement. Mr. ARMS1RONG: Labour started to pro­ I also spoke about what the Governments ..-!d.- the Tinaroo scheme, but it was talked had done for the wheat and beef industries. about tor ~~;oodness knows how many years. and, for that matter, other industries. What drd .:..abour do for the tobacco Mr. R. Jones: There is not one primary industry? It legislated for about 4 per industry in Queensland that is not at a very cent. of Australian leaf in cigarettes. I can low level today. Supply (26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1803

Mr. ARMSTRONG: I would not say there opposition to this project from hon. members is not one. As I pointed out-and here I opposite. Someone today referred to the agree with the previous speaker-primary wallum land. Here is another object lesson industries are the work-horse of the nation. which has to be learned. An Opposition Member: The Liberals don't Mr. Davies: Who started the research in think so. the wallum country? Mr. ARMSTRONG: Yes, they do. The Mr. ARMSTRONG: This Government policy of this Government is to work in played its part. As a matter of fact, if partnership with industry and not to try the hon. member for Maryborough wants to inflict something on it that it does not to hear a little of the truth, I shall give desire. We work in conjunction with private it to him. Research on the use of wallum industry. That is part and parcel of our land has been carried out in Western policy, and we carry it out. Australia for some 30 years, and one of Mr. Houston: Do you believe in the State the difficulties facing the Government here or the Commonwealth competing with private was the small amount of work that had industry? been done in Queensland in this field. Mr. Davies: You ought to be ashamed Mr. ARMSTRONG: I do not know what of yourself. the Leader of the Opposition is leading up to. If he is suggesting that we believe in Mr. ARMSTRONG: I have nothing to any form of socialism, which is Labour's be ashamed of, nor has the Government, main policy, I say definitely no, and I will as !

Mr. R. .Jones: He was a Gordonvale South Brisbane. I do not intend to com­ man. ment now on some of the speeches that he makes. On another occasion I may endeavour Mr. ARMSTRONG: At that time sugar to do so. was at a very 'high price, caused substantially When an opportunity to develop the coun­ by the collapse of the previous Intemwtional try presents itself, an industry comes along Sugar Agreement. There was agitation to and says to the Government, "Will you ha~e grow sugar on the Ord River. a look at the situation? Will you do th1s I have said before-and I say it again­ or that and see whether it is wise to expand?" What would happen if the Govern­ that if the Government and the Australian ment had said in this instance, "No, we are sugar industry were foolish in agreeing to not going to be a party to this. We will expansion, so were all the other sugar-grow­ not have any part of expansion. We do not ing industries in the world, because they believe that the time rs opportune."? What followed the same pattern. No evidence was would hon. members opposite have done put before them to indicate that a collapse about it? in price would occur even before the expan­ Mr. Houston: What did you do about the sion programme was completed. That, of liquor question? course, is now history, and it is easy to be wise when the party is over. Every mill Mr. ARMSTRONG: The House is not dis­ along the coast fought for a higher peak cussing the liquor question tonight. The than it eventually was allocated. I heard Leader of the Opposition would have been my friend from Isis talking about 1,800 tons on his feet kicking up a shindy for political and then about 5,000 tons, so it is reasonable _,asons, as the hon. member for Isis did earlier in the debate. for me to assume that he was not too proud to take part in the expansion when the oppor­ How is the country going to develop if the tunity offered. Government does not take action? No mat­ ter what industry it is in which expansion An Opposition Member: He was forced to. occurs, risks have to be taken and almost invariably troubles are encountered. ~he Mr. ARMSTRONG: He was not forced sugar industry has experienced teethmg to. I have no knowledge-the Minister for tr;ubles before now. When an industry is Primary Industries will correct me if I am expanded, things get out of balance and it wrong-of anyone who refused an expansion takes a short while to get back to normal. cf peak or a new assignment. On the con­ Naturally, the unduly high prices would cause trary, as the Minister well knows, I went everybody who could grow sugar to hasten to to him many times on behalf of people grow it. Even my friend from Mary­ from various mill areas who wanted new borough would have grown sugar in his assignments or increased peaks, but their back yard if the price had remained at its requests could not be granted because of the then height and, of course, if the Central findings of the committee of inquiry. No-one Sugar Cane Prices Board had seen fit to give will ever convince me that anybody was hi~ an assignment. forced to take part in the expansion of the industry. It is utter rot and nonsense to suggest at this stage that it was unwise to embark on Honourable Members interjected. an expansion scheme. As I said, everyone whom I saw or spoke to at that time was Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I would appreci­ in favour of it. I should like to know the ate it if hon. members on both sides of attitude of the canegrowers' executive of the the House would allow one person to make Isis area on the expansion scheme at that a speech instead of all trying to make a time. It is true that we ran into trouble. speech at once. as did nearly every other sugar-growing country in the world. Incidentally, who Mr. ARMSTRONG: Thank you, Mr. worked harder than the Deputy Prime Speaker. It is a welcome change to be heard Minister and Minister for Trade in this in silence; it is not often that I have that country to try to stabilise this industry, as privilege. he has also done for others? Mr. Bennett: Why don't you say some­ Mr. Davies: What did your Premier do? thing sensible? We will listen to you if you do. Mr. ARMSTRONG: Everything in his power, just as the Minister for Trade did in Mr. ARMSTRONG: Goodness me! This the Commonwealth field. In addition, years is the first full day that the hon. member of very hard work were put in behind the for South Brisbane has spent in the House, scenes by some of our great industry men so I do not think he should be talking too and some of our senior public servants, both much. Apparently he has run out of clients. Federal and State. When he does come into the Chamber, he is Mr. Davies: They kept it very quiet. here only about two minutes before he is on his feet speaking, and two minutes after he Mr. ARMSTRONG: If the hon. member concludes his speech he leaves. That is the read the newspapers and followed things usual pattern followed by our friend from he would know that it was not kept quiet. Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1805

I do not know how many times John I have here a number of circulars issued by McEwen went overseas to point out to the the Queensland Cane Growers' Council. In countries involved just where sugar was one dated 5 November, it says- going and what it meant in general to 'The Agreement, the text of which was world trade. Naturally, some of the coun­ approved by delegates representing more tries that depend substantially on sugar that 70 countries, will be open for signature were not able to trade and it was in the until 24 December, 1968, and instruments interests of everybody, as we well know, to of ratification, acceptance or approval, get an agreement. After several years of must be deposited by 31 December. very hard work a draft agreement was finally arrived at, and in my view it is "Votes necessary for ratification: the best International Sugar Agreement ever The Agreement will enter into force drawn up. on 1 January, 1969, if by that date Governments holding 60 per cent. of the An Opposition Member interjected. votes of the exporting countries and 50 per cent. of the votes of the importing Mr. ARMSTRONG: I spoke to the hon. countries have signified their acceptance." member about this sort of thing the other day. Naturally, if he and I sit down and Mr. Ramsden: The Premier told us that. come to an agreement on some transaction Mr. ARMSTRONG: No doubt he did. Mr. we have to put it into legal form, which McEwen has also said it. The important takes some time. If the hon. member looks thing is that we have to keep saying it as at the last official cane-growers' journal he will see what Mr. McAvoy says. I will not often as we can, because hon. members read it. opposite have tried to "knock" every worth­ while proposal that has been put forward Mr. Houston: Why not? in this House. They are against foreign capital; they are against the Japanese Trade Mr. ARMSTRONG: Very well, if the hon. Agreement; and they are against the King member wants me to read it I shall do so. Ranch trial. I could go on reciting other It reads- things that they are against. Not once have 'This was the reaction of Mr. F. T. I heard them give the sugar-industry leaders McAvoy, Chairman of the Queensland one bit of praise. I have heard them tell us Cane Growers' Council, upon hearing what the Labour Government did for the details of the Agreement reached and sugar industry when it was in power, but they considering its effects upon the economy. entirely disregard the work done by the "He paid tribute to the work of the industry leaders. If they read what Mr. Hon. J. McEwen in the six weeks he had McEwen said they will see that he paid spent in Geneva following a visit there a very high tribute to those behind the scenes earlier in the year in an endeavour to for the work that they have done. bring the conference to a successful con­ Mr. Sullivan: Don't you think that mem­ clusion-this, notwithstanding other heavy bers of the Opposition have indicated tonight calls upon his time as Deputy Prime that, for political purposes, they are hoping Minister and Minister for Trade. Tribute that this agreement will fail? should also be paid to the Queensland Premier who had given four weeks to the Mr. ARMSTRONG: I have reason to task in Geneva despite the importance of believe that that is how the Isis by-election the Budget debate in the Queensland was won. I am very sorry that I was not Parliament. there at the tail-end of the campaign to take part in it. "Mr. McAvoy went on to say that the London Daily Price had risen to £23 Mr. Houston: Why didn't you go up there? sterling, showing a favourable market reaction to the possibility of an agree­ Mr. ARMSTRONG: I was up there, and ment even before the Conference in we were in front when I was there. I was Geneva had been formally concluded." there a little too early. These are the tactics that members of the Opposition employ. The That shows what this gentleman thought only thing that they are concerned about is about it. Not only is he the leader of the politics. They are kidding to the primary sugar-growers-- industries. As a matter of fact, this mornin_g we were nearly washed out of the Chamber Mr. Houston: He is a member of the by the tears flowing from the eyes of the Country Party. Leader of the Opposition when he spoke Mr. ARMSTRONG: That, I would not about the lousy deal that the Minister for know. Lands is allegedly handing out to the poor, drought-stricken farmers. In addition, he is looked upon by the sugar Mr. Wallis-Smith: I didn't notice you industry as a very responsible man. I am here. sure t~e Mi~ister will agree with what I say, as he IS chalfman of the Australian Farmers' Mr. ARMSTRONG: The hon. member Union and on a number of parent bodies. may not have noticed me here. As well as Mr. McAvoy, many other people Mr. Wallis-Smith: You weren't here this speak in glowing terms of the agreement. morning. 1806 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

:VIr. ARMSTRONG: know something Mr. ARMSTRONG: I will tell the hon. about what happened. It is very interesting member in a minute. to look at the Labour Party's platform. I want to quote what the Geneva experts Mr. Houston: What is it? think about the agreement. They said that there were seven points in the new Inter­ :\lr. ARMSTRONG: Surely to goodness national Sugar Agreement making it better the hon. member does not expect me to than the 1958 pact. recite Labour's policy to him, although I know it fairly well. I was rather amazed :VIr. Houston: Who said that? to find a man who admits that he grows Mr. ARMSTRONG: The experts at 5,000 tons of cane walking into this House, Geneva. and sitting on the other side. He knows what will happen to him if he sells his land Mr. Houston: What are their names? under a Labour Government. In fact, in :VIr. ARMSTRONG: I have addressed days gone by Labour imposed taxes on the school-children from time to time, and I am land and forced the farmers to sell it. bound to admit that they have exhibited Mr. Blake: I may not want to sell it. much more intelligence than is coming from the Opposition side of the House tonight. :vir. ARMSTRONG: The hon. member Opposition members get up as experts and may not just yet, but the way he was tell us all about the sugar industry, and now talking-- they want me to tell them who the experts were. That shows how much they know Mr. Blake interjected. about this matter. I think it is fair to say Mr. ARMSTRONG: The way the hon. that we can gauge their knowledge on state­ member was crying and screaming this after­ ments such as that. The following points noon I thought he was wanting to give his would seem to provide for more effective land away. That is how I understood his regulation of world trade in sugar. remarks. He certainly was not too happy I said there were seven points, and I with it. The only part that I could not want to tell the Opposition about them. understand was that if he could see all this They read- trouble beforehand, why in the name of "1. Quotas are more realistic and the goodness did he take part in it? Agreement provides for a maximum cut Mr. Blake: We were forced to retain our of 15 per cent. in basic export tonnages as against 20 per cent. in the earlier equity in the industry. pact." Mr. ARMSTRONG: I am now beginning This was also something that was used to understand. The hon. member must have politically. ' fairly tough executive in his area if they They continue- lorce him to do things like that. We do not "2. The price range, now transformed operate that way in the North. I can well into a scale with :'everal 'reference points', imagine that the hon. member's area would is wide,r and provides for controls to be be one of the 5rst that would be into the introduced or relaxed at various stages in expansion. the range. The new International Sugar Agreement "3. The new pact bans imports from embodies many more nations than the pre­ non-members if the price falls below 3.25 vious agreement did. It also contains dif­ cents per lb. lowest reference price. No ferent provisions. The },on. member says such provision was contained in the old that it has not yet been ratified, that possibly Agreement. This clause could also it will not be ratified, and that there are influence the Common Market to join '"ifs"' and "ands" and all sorts of things the Agreement at a later stage." associated with it, but it is very interesting This is the important clause that I want to note that since the conference concluded, to speak about. It is difficult to do so the world free-market price of sugar has and I have only 40 minutes altogether. risen to £Stg.27 !Os. That is the price as One Opposition member is most disturbed from today. No fewer than 49 exporting because Common Market countries are not countries are associated with the agreement. in the agreement. l'vir. Bennett: Wha~ about the European :\lr. Houston: Aren't you? Common Market? Mr. ARMSTRONG: I do not think I :vir. ARMSTRO!'\& I will talk about that should answer that question. if l have sufficien'. time. (Time expired.) There are 30 in,porting countries associated Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH (Tablelands) (7 .4 7 with the agreement. They are the main p.m.): I should like to clear up a few ones, although r.1y friend is a little frightened of the Common Market countries. I do not anomalies mentioned by the hon. member for Mulgrave. First of all, he commended think we have to worry too much about the hon. member for Isis on delivering them at this stage. such an outstanding maiden speech. He '!\tr. Bromley: Why not? congratulated him on his very small win. Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1807

I think he did so with tongue in cheek. officers, and they are constantly endeavouring He also said that members of the A.L.P. to improve their industry and keep it on did not give a new member a chance. an economic basis. It is, however, an This is entirely wrong. As all hon. mem­ uphill fight because of the increase in cost bers know, every member receives the of production. What I am stating are facts, courtesy of the House when making his and I do not want to be diverted by inter­ maiden speech, and he is subjected to no jections from those who would like to get or few interjections. This is what happened on this occasion. Let us start off in the me off the track. correct manner that we should like to Poisons, for instance, are very necessary finish in. in this industry, and there is an ever-increas­ The hon. member for Mulgrave tried ing range of them. "The Australian Tobacco to enlarge on this by likening members Journal" of August, 1968, lists 30 new poisons of the A.L.P. to a pack of howling dogs. tested in the last four years, two of which I took strong exception to this, and that have been released for specific purposes. At a is why I am raising it again. How would meeting of the Mareeba Shire Council on the hon. member for Isis feel? He came 23 November, 1968, which is fairly recently, here, not knowing what to expect, and did Councillor C. Davies queried the use of new his best, and then received a half-hearted tobacco pesticides throughout the tobacco­ sort of plaudit from the hon. member for farming area. A news item states that one Mulgrave, who then immediately likened all tobacco farmer was taken to hospital after Opposition members to a pack of howJ.ing coming into contact with the poison. There dogs. That is shocking language to be is a reference to the use of poisons from the used and I hope that the hon. member for health angle. When the Department of Isis let it pass over his head as he will Primary Industries recommends the use of have to let pass many other remarks of the a poison, it always stresses that the instruc­ hon. member for Mulgrave. tions on the container must be followed at all times. The hon. member for Mulgrave said that what the hon. member for Isis did not From the August, 1968, edition of 'The mention was that a Mr. Crawford engineered Australian Tobacco Journal" I should like the scheme to bring about the Regulation to read just a few paragraphs dealing with of Sugar Cane Pr.ices Act of 1915. He tobacco pest control. They state- tried to say that Crawford drew up this "Two of the new insecticides, 'Cyolane' scheme but that the Government would not and 'Matacil' are now approved for sale. accept it. Whom does the hon. member An application for approval of a third for Mulgrave want to make the laws, one man or the Government? The answer is material is also likely. that the Government must make the laws. "Dr. Brimblecombe said that 'Cyolane' The Tory Government of the day would at a spray strength of 0.025 per cent. not accept the scheme, but the Labour Gov­ active constituent and 'Matacil' at 0.05 e~nment did. '!fie Labour Government pro­ per cent. are now recommended for looper V·!ded the bas1s for the establishment of control. It is expected that growers will this great industry that we have always make full use of these new materials." been proud of and in which the hon. There are two new insecticides for control member for Mulgrave has got his liveli­ of one pest that attacks the tobacco plant. hood for many years. I should like to The very next paragraph states that the new ask him if he refused extra cane at the materials are not recommended for the time of the expansion. I do not know control of bud worms or leaf miner; some­ whether he will answer that, but I should thing altogether different is required for them. say that the answer is, "No." As the The journal also states that DDT at 0.1 hon. member for Isis said, he was forced per cent. is still outstanding against these to accept it to r~tain equity in the industry. pests. It says also-- So much for m_y mtroductory remarks, which haye been a _httl.e astray from the subjects "Endrin is still available for any grower I mtend to ra1se m this speech. who prefers its use against loopers. I wish to deal with the tobacco industry "As with the earlier materials, Dr. of which I have been told that I kno~ Brimblecombe stressed that to be of great­ est advantage the new insecticides must be ~othing, and do my best for those in it, applied carefully, and with close attention ~ust as Labour Governments did previously m the early days of this industry when water to spray strength and rate of application. was scarce and men walked off their farms. Thorough spray coverage of both leaf sur­ There were then no marketing arrangements, faces is essential for good pest control. and they could not get decent prices. The Applications then can be effectively timed Mareeba-Dimbulah district, which is the against the young stages of the pests and largest tobacco-growing area in the State, now normally should not be required at interv.:!s has adequate water, and efficient departmental less than a fortnight." officers deal with the marketing of the That is one example of two separate poisons, product. The Tobacco Leaf Marketing Board both of which are expensive, having to be has been set up, and growers now have used for two separate pests, and so it goes thc;r own association and their own research on. 1808 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Then there is weed control, and another get into the rivers, into the fish that are in the poison is used in greater strength than it rivers, and then into the oceans in distant ought to be because farmers are of the areas of the globe. opinion that it reduces labour costs. They come to the conclusion, quite naturally, I I have here an article that deals with the think, that if they use double the recom­ percentage of DDT contained in human mended strength they will get double the beings. It is an article by Professor L. C. effect and it will last twice as long; and if Birch, a professor in America, who said that people have to be employed to apply the it is concentrated in the bodies of American weedicide, it cuts down on costs. However, pe•Jple to the extent of 11 parts per million. there is an effect in the opposite direction, Mr. Cbinchen: Is that harmful? too. I remind hon. members of the amount of poison that is being released not only into Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: Hon. members the atmosphere but into the ground and opposite may interject and try to convey the carried down into streams by storms-there impression that statements like that are out was quite a serious storm in the tobacco­ of tune with present-day living, but I say growing areas last week-end-and then into they are as serious as a declaration of war the pastures. by one country on another. If we are lagging South Australia wishes to introduce legis­ behind other States-! have already pointed out that the South Australian Government lation to eliminate the use of DDT, and on wants to get in line when the Common­ Friday, 22 November, I asked the Minister wealth is ready-then let us get into line. for Primary Industries- The Minister knows the trouble he had "Has his attention been drawn to an with the hen levy. That has nothing to article in the Queensland Graingrower of do with DDT, but in that case, as some November 20 on the decision to ban the States were not ready, the whole scheme use of DDT on farms?" was held up. I ask the Minister to consider this seriously. With its dependence on rural In the "Telegraph" of 19 November this industry, can Queensland afford to take this report appeared- risk? Can it afford to wait until next "The insecticide, DDT, will be ban­ August before legislation is even thought of? ished from farms in South Australia under I do not think it can, and although the a new law to be introduced in State Par­ Minister's advisers might say we can wait. liament soon, said Agricultural Minister, I should like them to compare the position Mr. Story. here with that in South Australia. They 'The legislation would be introduced as should ask themselves why South Australia soon as possible, in line with other States." has done this? It will not be good enough for us to say, "We hoped it would not sound a note of warning, because in the happen, but unfortunately we made a mis­ last part of the Minister's answer he said- take." There has been mention in this "I may definitely say that considerable Chamber today of mistakes being made in progress has been made in reducing DDT other directions in the rural industries. This usage on farms from both departmental is one we can avoid. recommendations and farmer co-operation. This improvement is now in an accelerated The tobacco industry is finding it more stage and special legislative change has not costly to produce a lb. of tobacco, and at been required as yet." the same time is creating a hazard that will affect each and every one of us. Mr. Row: As yet. I compliment the Minister, and in saying Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: As yet. As you that I should like to draw the attention know, Mr. Speaker, the House goes into recess of the hon. member for Mulgrave. He said in another week, and we will not be back that we never compliment anybody. During here till August next year. I wonder whether the last fortnight, every member on this side this is not a case of the Minister's keeping has complimented the officers in every his fingers crossed and hoping that nothing department whose Estimates were discussed. happens. Industries that may be affected Where would we be otherwise? They are cannot CJfford to have that happen. The specialists in their own field. We should DDT affects not only tobacco but also not ride rough-shod over everyone and say grasses, pastures, fruit and vegetables. that we know all the answers. The man who Another article that I have here lists many of has never made a mistake does not know them. I am particularly concerned about the anything, and the man who knows all the dairy industry and the beef-cattle industry. answers has a lot to learn, and I should say that that goes especially for the hon. It is quite likely that beef animals will be member for Mulgrave. As I say, I want found to contain a percentage of DDT, to compliment the Minister for clearing up because recently DDT was found in seals and fish as far south as the Antarctic. Where this knotty problem of the rolls that has been worrying him in a couple of elections did th_t come from? No-one can say that --he seems to have them ironed out now­ it is part of the natural make-up of the seals mainly for the hail damage scheme. and fi

Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: The hon. member the Department of Irrigation and Water can tell him that. I say they all did a very Supply, and under the auspices of the Depart­ good job. I do not want to pick out any ment of Primary Industries they were tested particular one. I can see in the lobbies for grasses and pastures for stock. Unfor­ some men who do an excellent job. In tunately, this project has been mismanaged. fact, I think they get too many jobs and It is almost dust there now as a result of that there should be more people to take over-stocking. Right opposite that block some of the responsibility. another block was used for rice-growing. This Mr. Sullivan interjected. project was not mismanaged by the Depart­ ment of Primary Industries, but has proved Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: If the Minister for to be quite a profitable one. As much as Lands took a page out of some of their 3,000 lb. per acre has been harvested. This books he would not make the mistakes he year's crop will amount to 10 tons. A volume made this afternoon. of 61 inches of irrigated water, costing $17.60 As we know, tobacco research is to be an acre, was required, and in addition nearly undertaken at another station at Mareeba, 35 inches of rain fell on the crop. A crop which will relieve much of the pressure that like rice requires that great quantity of has been on some of the other stations. It water. Rice has been shown to be a soil­ will probably lead to a solution of more improver. This is a very good feature of problems and probably to some better its production, because up to the present strains. We have been shown a freak time we have been dependent on legumes and tobacco plant about 12 to 14 ft. high, which similar crops for improving soil in th.at has never been heard of before. Who area. According to Mr. John van der L1st knows? Before long this may be the means of the Walkamin Research Station, rice is of producing more leaf on the one stalk. a profitable crop and also a great improver of I do not know whether the mechanical picker the soil in that area. that is about to be introduced can pick the I turn now to a matter that affects the crop. These things are happening .in an whole of the State. I have previously asked industry that is finding it very difficult to the Minister to consider a rebate on improv~d balance its budget owing to increasing costs. stock, for stud bulls that are transported The hon. member for Landsborough men­ long distances. A certain number of con­ tioned the standard price of fertiliser. I agree ditions are set out on the application form entirely with his remarks. First of all, an that is issued by the Department of Primary insufficient quantity of fertiliser is used Industries, and if the animal comes within throughout the area, and, secondly, it is a certain category quite. a high rebate is made necessary that exact amounts be applied. It on the cost of transport. Unfortunately, Rule is absolutely essential that a landholder does not over-fertilise or under-fertilise. The cost 3 says- of fertiliser has to be met when an order "The bull shall be registered in a is placed, and many farmers find it difficult recognised Herd Book or be eligible for to meet the cost at that stage. If the Govern­ Herd Book entry and must be identified ment can find some means of applying a positively." standard price even to the lowest possible cost then everyone will be able to gain some Rule 6 reads- advantage from it. "The bull shall be the progeny of an approved sire and an 'Officially tested dam Mr. Ahern: Most of those growers got increased quotas this year. which has reached the undermentioned butterfat standards." Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: Yes, they did, but That seriously limits the number that are I doubt whether the quotas will be reached. eligible. When people are improving their No-one knows, because tobacco is such an herds, they should receive a rebaJte no.t only unpredictable crop. A hail storm tomorrow for bulls but also for the females m the could result in under-production. Already breed. Some breeds are recognised up several serious fires have occurred, and these there, and they are being b~ilt up, but have resulted in decreased production. because they do not appear m the Herd Mr. R. .Jones: If they do not get rain Book-they appear in the herd books of shortly, too, they will be in trouble. other countries-they are eliminated. The Minister should know quite well, as should Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: The very high tem­ the Minister for Lands, the case to which peratures and dryness of the atmosphere have I am referring, because he met the gentleman resulted in insufficient quantities of water in question. Anyone who is trying to being poured onto the soil to nourish the improve his herd by buying stud Sitock from plants. That has not occurred before in that recognised breeders should receive assistance area. The result is that the plants absorb by way of a rebate. However, the animal the water very quickly and then give it off must be positively identified and all the other through the leaves, which then curl up in the conditions-! think there are 10 of them­ excessively dry atmosphere. must be satisfied, otherwise the rebate is I now raise a very important point relative not payable. I should like the Minister to to the rice soils at Arriga, in the same look into this matter again to see if he area. Two blocks were developed there by can provide some assistance. 1810 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I was surprised that the hon. member the Federal Government to consider aggre­ for Mulgrave mentioned King Ranch and gation of farms. This may have to be under­ did not know the number of stock carried, taken, although we hope it will not be or very much about it at all, except that necessary as it will lead to a decrease of we were a little opposed to the initial plan. population in the area. I am not sure If he read in "Hansard" the speech made whether the coalition Government believes by the hon. member for Mouri!yan when in decentralisation, but the A.L.P. does. It the legislation was pwmulgated, he would believes in people in our outback areas. I find all his questions answered in such a believe that it is foolish to suggest that this way tha:t he would not mention this matter is the only method to solve the problems again or try to create ~he impression that confronting the dairying industry. we are opposed to development or improve­ This is a headline in "Sunday Truth" of ment of any kind. 13 March, 1966, "Report on Dairying I ask the Minister to appoint more stock Dynamite. C. P. put on spot." We do not inspectors in Queensland. I suppose he will want this to happen. We do not want this say, "If I had the money I would appoint sort of advertisement; we do not want any them." That is a short-sighted policy when Government to be put on the spot. We we compare the cost of appointing more want the dairy-farmer on his farm earning stock inspectors with the permanent savings an income to provide for his family, with to be gained by their appointment in areas more farmers coming from his family to where there are large grazing holdings, and keep the dairying industry going. We have where there could be pleuro or redwater known for many years, and the maps in the outbreaks. The s>tock inspector must be Year Book make it clear, where our dairy on the spot. The Minister may well say farms are. There are very few in Queens­ that, with present-day communications, they land. We should not be hoping that the can be flown from any part of the State number of dairy farms will be reduced by but, if they are stationed in the area they aggregation. know it well, and when doing their rounds, can issue a word of warning to the graziers Last but not least I mention soil con­ if they see cattle in poor condition. servation. This is also a Queensland-wide Prevention is far easier and far less expensive problem. It is very well covered in the than cure. department's annual report. This should be done step by step. It should not be up to I asked the Minister a question today the farmer to make application. It should about the stock inspector at Georgetown. be the law that he must carry out this I know that a relieving man stationed there scheme if his farm is one of those in the at present is doing .a very good job. Many chain. A chain is only as strong as the ot•her places may be in the same position. weakest link and, if one farmer does not pull It would be in the interests of the industry his weight, the whole scheme will break at Georgetown if he could be stationed there permanently, or if the position could down. When farms change hands the new farmer might not know the district well and be advePtised as a permanent one. might want to eliminate the contour banks The 1964 investigation into the Tableland in order to get more land and make it area provided only one real answer for the easier to farm. It should be made mandatory dairy farmers, namely, that they could that on no account can these banks be supplement their income by producing more touched, and heavy penalties should be bacon. It was very heartening .to see, on imposed if they are. I do not think that 16 November, 1968, an •article in "The the penalty can be too great because the Cairns Post" headed "More new piggeries wonderful, valuable topsoil that is so impor­ in North Queensland". A new officer, Mr. tant and is the lifeblood of all plants can­ Fearon, has been appointed in charge of not be recovered. the piggery section of t>he Department of The report reads- Primary Industries to take the place of Mr. Gibbs. He said that inquiries are constantly "The number of graduate staff engaged coming forward concerning new piggeries in on soil conservation research was raised the area. It appears that there has been to six during the year." a vast improvement in the whole system It may be necessary to employ other people compared with what we remember in the who have knowledge of soil conservation. days when the farmer spent most of his but who may not be on salaries as high as time in keeping the place clean and, to a those of the top officers. The report con­ degree, free from odious smells. I have tains a fine photograph depicting contour been to many piggeries which are absolutely farming on a tobacco farm in the Mareeba­ spotless. This is to the credit of the farmers Dimbulah irrigation area. Where soils are and the department, which is able to advise light and have a large sand content. soil and assist them in keeping piggeries up to erosion can be frightening. Large areas the present standard. barren of topsoil can be left which will I hope that this continues because bacon never grow grass unless properly treated is a product that has good overseas and for some considerable time. home-consumption markets. It provides a Whilst speaking on the subject of soil wonderful supplementary income for dairy­ erosion, I sound a note of warning about the farmers who at present are being asked by constant clearing of areas, whether they be Supply [26 NOVEMBER] Supply 1811 suburban sites in Southport, Bundaberg, the able to restrict production. The sugar industry suburbs of Brisbane, or scrub blocks on is confined to Queensland and a small portion which all the trees are felled right to the of New South Wales. fences. Those practices merely assist soil erosion. Grass and tree roots are Nature's One point has been troubling me, and in way of holding soil together, and a cover this respect I wish to be fair to hon. mem­ of grass slows down the run-off of water in bers on both sides of the Chamber. I was floods and prevents erosion by wind. If a member of this Assembly when permission the natural covering of the land is destroyed, was granted to increase production in the and subdividers in suburban areas continue sugar industry, or to increase peak, as the to raze whole areas of plants and trees, only hon. member for Isis said. I do not know supermen will be able to prevent erosion whether the information on which the when there are storms or heavy rain. increased production of sugar was decided I conclude on that note of warning on upon was reliable. It is quite clear now soil erosion. If the Minister can find ways that the decision was unwise, and I do of tightening up in this most important not think that the present problems would matter and making it more difficult for be as great as they are if production had people to disregard soil conservation anywhere not been increased at that time. I am in Queensland. I ask him to take that concerned about primary producers produc­ action. It could be a further step towards ing under these conditions, and dairymen achieving a worth-while result. are in a position similar to that of the Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (8.22 p.m.): It sugar-growers. was not originally my intention to enter this It is not only a question of price. The debate. However, in view of the numerous real trouble that primary producers are statements made in this House and the Press facing is the costs that they have to carry publicity recently given to the interstate with the industry. In my opinion, the cost marketing of some primary products, the of keeping the industry going is an even Minister has been urged to do something to more serious problem than the low return, control the introduction of dairy produce and I have a suggestion to make to the to Queensland from other States. Minister before I proceed to deal with the Before dealing with this problem, I should question of stabilisation. Because the dairy­ like to congratulate the hon. member for ing industry is so disturbed about the low Isis on his maiden speech. The way in return to producers, I suggest that, for the which he collated and presented his figures benefit of the industry and for his own showed to me that he has a clear knowledge benefit, the Minister should convene a con­ of the sugar industry. There is no doubt in ference~it could be called a special com­ my mind why he won his seat. With his mittee--of four or five members on this knowledge of the sugar industry, I feel quite side of the Chamber and £our or five sure that it was not the A.L.P. tag that members of the dairying industry. I would won him the by-election; he could have won not object to a few members of the Opposi­ it as a Liberal, a Country Party member. tion being included, if they wished, because or an Independent. I congratulate him on I think it is a question that is too big his thorough knowledge of his industry. to be made the plaything of party politics. One of the pieces of advice that I received I believe that an attempt should be made when I entered this House 30 years ago, to find a solution. not from a member of my party but from All hon. members are appalled, I am a member of the Government, was, "Never sure, when they read in the newspapers from speak of things about which you know week to week that Queensland is importing nothing". The hon. member for Isis has 5,000 boxes of butter a week from Victoria. given a clear description of his industry. One might offer the excuse that dairying and obviously he knows it thoroughly. I areas in Queensland are in the grip of commend him on his speech and congratulate drought; but there have been worse droughts him on the way in which he presented his than the present one and the State has never case. Regardless of the side on which he had to import very much butter. It is not sits, I am sure that he will be a valuable som~thing of which the State can boast. Pro­ member of this House. duction has dropped to such a low level I have had a good deal to do with the that butter has to be imported from other stabilisation of marketing, and I held office States, and I believe that action should in the dairying industry, with which I was be taken in an attempt to overcome the associated for over 30 years, right up till problem. If it is not taken, even more the time when I became a Minister. I people will leave the industry. As it is, held office not only in this State but on it is safe to say that at least 40 per cent. all Commonwealth bodies operating at that of dairymen have left the industry in the time, and I know some of the problems to be last four or five years. Some of them contended with. The difference between the have turned to pig-raising, and until the sugar industry and the dairying industry is price fell some months ago they were doing that the sugar industry has been able to fairly well. While they were receiving about base stabilisation on restricted production. 30c or slightly more than 30c a lb. for The dairying industry, however, has not been their pork, they were doing fairly well; 1812 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply unfortunately, the price fell to about 25c Commonwealth Dairy Industry Equalisation a lb., their profit fell, and they are now Board, and a member of the Australian Dairy in a bad way. Board, and as a result of that experience I I can undel"stand that in an election think I know something about the problems such as the one that took place recently of section 92 of the Commonwealth in Isis, in which one has to contend with Constitution. a number of dairy-farmers, sugar-farmers, Mr. Davies: Who passed the legislation to and other farmers who are not doing any enable the Butter Board to be formed? good in the business, they are likely to do anything politically and are likely to Mr. MULLER: That is beside the ques­ vote against anyone. tion. The farmers asked for it at that time. To be honest about it, at the time it was Mr. Davies: The fishing industry, too. set up a Labour Government was in power Mr. MULLER: Yes. Well, there it is. and put the legislation through. What is The primary producer is coming out of more, I sat over there where the hon. this inflationary position very badly. member who interjected sits, and I was man enough at that time, more than 33 years I am horror-stricken when I think of the ago, to thank the Government of the day move that has been made in Canberra for the legislation it had introduced. The in the last week to bump up the salary hon. member will find it recorded in levels of members of Parliament. Such an "Hansard" if he cares to look for it. In increase can only cause further inflaHon, those days we did not make such matters and that is what makes the working man the plaything of party politics. When I was sour~I include the farmer~because he is on the Australian boards, if we had quibbled getting less and less and these salaries are about political differences we would have increased still further. He is in a hopeless got nowhere. We forgot about party politics, position, and if the trend continues there we forgot the proprietary manufacturers and will be even more unrest in the farming the co-operative manufacturers and we did industry. something in the interests of the industry. Getting back to the question of stabilisa­ We looked upon ourselves as Australians tion, I mentioned earlier that I had seen for Australia. very difficult times in connection with the The Minister cannot do anything to pre­ stabilisation of the dairying industry. The vent interstate competition, and I really hon. member for Isis mentioned that stabilisa­ appreciate the problem that has been set tion in the sugar industry began in about before him by those who are asking him to 1913, which is perfectly true. It took prevent the flow of dairy products from time to complete the stabi!isation plan, and other States. I tell him that it cannot be the dairying industry did not move in that done. direction until about 1924. I well remember Section 92 of the Commonwealth Consti­ -this was my first experience in public tution provides that trade among the States life-a meeting that took place in Ipswich. shall be absolutely free, and the word It was the annual meeting of the dairy "absolutely" cannot be got around. The company and the first I had ever attended. section means what it says. No-one can be A couple of gentlemen from the Darling prevented from marketing interstate. Whilst Downs advocated the formation of a butter there have been times in our lives when marketing board. Hon. members will readily those of us engaged in the stabilisation of appreciate the conservative thinking of many an industry have hated this section, never­ people at that time. They said, "We do theless, when we give regard to the whole not want any form of control; we do not of the circumstances we could not be in a want this, that and the other", but we hurry to ask that it be deleted because many were starving in the job. I was a young other things would arise and make the posi­ dairy farmer at the time, and I stuck tion very much worse. my neck out and said that I for one had had enough of cut-throat competition. I I suggest for the information of the said, "Let us get together and do some­ Minister that there is one way to get over thing about it". As a result of what I this problem. It lies in the hands of the said that day, during the next year I found dairy-farmers themselves. I do not know myself on the board. that it can be done any other way. If I thought it could, I would say so. The Butter Board was formed and I was asked to contest a seat on We made a success of stabilising Com­ it by Queensland Farmers' Associ.ati.on., monwealth marketing in the dairying indus­ one of the biggest dairy assocratwns try purely on a co-operative spirit. We would in Queensland at that time, with five fac­ not allow anyone, whether proprietary fac­ tories. A few years later I became a member tories or co-operatives, to cut the markets. of the Butter Board. After the Butter Board After we got together and understood each was formed in 1924, the Australian Dairy other we would soon see to it that if any­ Board was formed in 1925, Commonwealth one intended to use our product for the Dairy Industry Equalisation Board was purpose of reducing the price, which in the formed in 1935 and I was a member of each long run was carried by the farmer, his of them. I was chairman of the Queensland supply was cut off. The only way to stop Butter Marketing Board, chairman of people from marketing milk products here Supply [26 NOVEMBER) Supply 1813 at a lower price than they are marketing received any profit that accrued from the them for in the other States is to cut off sales. That practice had to be stopped. We their supplies. showed New South Wales that that could Look at the milk set-up in Queensland. be done, and that State, through its Primary I give Queensland United Foods Ltd. full Producers' Union, came in willingly. Later marks for the way they are treating milk we got Victoria, through its Dairy Farmers' and distributing it, but I am shocked to Union, to join with us. In that way the whole think that a man like John Bryant, whom stabilisation of the butter industry was built I have known well for years, should have up. made the statement a few weeks ago that C)uite a few very big proprietary com­ he was shocked to think that his company panies were operating in Victoria, and we would not be allowed to market U.H.T. thought that we would have trouble with milk. them. For a little time we did, but they The fact of the matter is that if the com­ were big enough to see the benefits that would pany was allowed to sell this milk it would accrue from our scheme, and they sat with be cutting the price of the liquid milk that us in committees and worked with us as if is sold to the people of Brisbane ,every day. they were co-operative associations. In that The reason for taking the extra milk is that way we were able to obviate our difficulties. each milk supplier has a quota-I know As a result of what happened on the other something about this matter because I have side of the world, and again through the arranged these quotas-and in recent years Commonwealth stabilisation or subsidy the milk suppliers have been taking extra scheme, whichever it may be called, which quantities of milk for manufacturing purposes, was introduced in about 1932 or 1933 and such as for manufacturing milk powder, and subsequently grew and grew, the markets the dairymen, in turn, were prepared to take in the United Kingdom and on the Continent a quota of manufactured milk with the quota adopted a similar scheme and began to of liquid milk. That milk is supplied at a subsidise their growers. Today the stage has lCI\\'er price than the milk that is used as been reached where they can sell butter to us. liquid milk. If we were to allow the manu­ and because of that we are in a difficult facturers to treat it under the U.H.T. sys­ situation. tem and c

feed and we did not get much out of it. We extent that the problem would largely be cannot put up with this kind of thing. Here overcome. If the Minister cannot get any­ is an opportunity for the Government to do one to do that job, I will guarantee to do a something for the industry. district myself. It would not hurt me, and I should now like to deal with the tick I would do it well. All that has to be done problem. The tick is nothing new. I am old is to go to the people and tell them what enough to be able to say that I was here is expected of them, and have samples taken ,before the tick. But I remember when the of their dips. I do not want to be crying .ticks came, and I know the problem they "blue ruin" all the time. The department created and the state we have got into. Tick !s doing some good work, but I think that resistance is man-made. Either the cattle its approach to this matter is all cockeyed. were not properly dipped or the dips were That is about as plain as I can put it. not kept up to the required strength, and the Last night in Boonah an address was given ticks developed resistance to the chemicals on foot and mouth disease, and I heard used. If the chemicals were changed, very very favourable comments made on the work .often the new chemical was effective. of the officer concerned. He pointed out to Although some people say that ticks stock-owners just how dangerous this disease .develop a resistence to dipping, I am still is, and he won the confidence of all who prepared to say that if cattle are dipped attended the meeting. He related how the properly the ticks are disposed of. Those germ of the disease is air-borne, which is people in the quarantine area are not com­ something that I did not know, and carried plaining too much because they are getting by the wind. I think that the people their chemicals for nothing. But, with the should know all about a disease as deadly restrictions that they have to put up with, as this one. Last night's address was an the people in those areas can scarcely breathe. excellent piece of work, and I congratulate For cattle-owners, conditions are intolerable. Dr. Harvey and his officers on sending that If there was to be complete eradication of man to the district to warn people where ticks, I would not oppose these measures. the dangers lie. If the Crown likes to bear the cost and In conclusion. I should like to say that say, "We will dip regularly and see that whilst we pass and enforce laws, I am one the ticks are cleaned up", that will be all who places a tremendous amount of import­ right, but tinkering with the problem, ance on the practical side of things. You quarantining some properties and not others, cannot walk roughshod over the man who and making the movement of cattle difficult, is doing the job. That applies not only to is a different matter. I am still receiving cattlemen but also to those who raise sheep bags of letters from people in the Boonah or produce wheat, vegetables, hens or any­ district complaining about the inconvenience thing else. A man must know his job, and of it all. it is not merely a question of theory and The powers that have been given to stock what ought to work out, but what will work inspectors have made a lot of cattlemen out. In a matter of this kind, I think that hostile. They are prepared to vote any if tick eradication or any other matter is way if this treatment is to continue; they to be handled efficiently you must have, have told me that again and again. I besides departmental officers, at least a couple have told the Minister, and I repeat tonight, of practical advisers who know the job. that there is a limit to what people will By that means I believe that we would get stand in this kind of inconvenience. I suggest, over a lot of our present difficulties. for the consideration of the Minister and I have spoken for considerably longer than his advisors, that the Minister bring down I wanted to, but I do want to repeat my legislation to exercise greater control over reference to the control of products from all dips. Most people are pretty careful. but interstate. That question is very much bigger I had one neighbour who would never than a number of people think it is. dip his cattle in one of my dips till I should like to say, too, that the report the ticks were rolling off them. He would on the Brisbane milk market has been bring them in with ticks dropping off them bandied about as being an awful report. I into the yard. I said to him. "Johnny, had a good deal of experience in marketing this has finished. Unless you are prepared milk in the years that I was with the to dip your cattle regularly, you won't Queensland Farmers' Co-operative. As a put them through this yard." result of my experience, I think that the There were hundreds of people like that, two men who compiled the report did a and if the Minister introduced legislation to really excellent job. They have not directed exercise control over all dips, I think the the Government to do anything. They have problem could be cleared up. It would not given a complete picture of what the position be such a tremendous job; indeed, it would really is and have left the Government to not be as much trouble as is now being make up its own mind. experienced with the application of re· To say that the suggestion is that the right strictions. If legislation was brought down to supply milk should be taken away from requiring dips to be registered and ensuring someone and given to someone else is just that they were properly charged, the people not true. People who have been in the would have confidence in them to such an business and who have permits will he 1816 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply allowed to remain in it as their activities I welcome the hon. member for Isis to the expand. There is no intention of taking House and congratulate him upon his con­ anything away from them. The point is tribution to the debate. I am glad to see that the officers concerned have given a that we have another farmer in the House. clear picture of the position, and if the It is a very good thing indeed. But I am Government wants to rob Peter to pay Paul, worried about the ex-teachers who will "lose that is its responsibility. I do not think that their heads" in the next election. I worry is its intention. for the hon. member for Maryborough and the hon. member for Barcoo. We will I have always held the view that it would certainly miss their contributions. We cer­ be sensible to market milk along lines similar tainly will miss the hon. member for to those that operate in New South Wales Maryborough. However, the electors have and create a zone. At present, trucks run given us a farmer and we are grateful for to Warwick and nearly as far as Millmerran. that. They go through milk-producing areas within 50 miles of Brisbane to bring that milk in. I want to pay tribute to the hon. member It is only common sense that if a tanker who has just entered the House; he is runs 120 miles to Inglewood and back to typically A.L.P. I do not know where collect milk when milk is available within they educated him but he is a typical calamity 40 or 50 miles, someone has to pay for howler like other A.L.P. members. I inform the additional running. They go through the hon. member !!hat we have a Grievance the Lockyer, too. It is a wonder that Day in this Chamber during which he can dairymen in that area have not kicked up grieve for 10 minutes. We have a wailing a row long ago. I represent the factories wall, which is perhaps just as well for at Boonah, Laidley, Grantham, and Booval. hon. members opposite who seem to do Hon. members in this Chamber have nothing but continually wail and whinge. mentioned Booval, but it is only a small They cannot win elections with that. corner of the milk-producing area around Mr. P. Wood: 11he electors are howling Laidley and Gatton. People in the area too. have simply to put up with it, but in the end the consumer, the producer or the company Mr. WHARTON: The hon. member would has to pay. make anybody howl. This is the last opportunity I shall have I could not help but notice that the to make recommendations. Mark my words: new member had "two-bob each way". He the sooner the Minister takes the bull by wants the benefit of Country Party policy the horns and does something similar to what but still wants to be an A.L.P. knocker. is being done in New South Wales, the He cannot do that all the time. For the better. The milk should be brought from benefit of the hon. member for Isis I the most convenient areas, instead of being draw attention to the carryings-on of A.L.P. brought from all over the country, which members. I have never seen such carryings­ must mean that somebody has to bear on since I have been in this Chamber. additional costs. If it is decided to make Mr. Wallis-Smith: You are not here very a change, I suggest that it should be made much. in that way. As the Minister knows I am not suggesting that anybody should be held Mr. WHARTON: I am here; tell the out, but I think it is a bit silly to send truth. When I heard their loud "Hear, tankers 120 or 130 miles for milk when it is hears" today, I thought there must be a obtainable within 40 or 50 miles. If a person new spirit and drive among Opposition mem­ was doing that for himself he would not bers, a spirit I have not seen for years. do it for six months, but in this instance They have been sleepy and tired, exhibiting it has been going on from year to year. no progress and contributing nothing to the debates, but today we have had a real I say to the Minister, "Before you go into revolution. Seeing the attitude of hon. the question of trying to prevent interstate members opposite during the speech of the trade, have a look at all the problems sur­ hon. member for Isis, I felt that we had rounding it." I think that he will get the a new Labour Party policy, looking to the co-operation of the producers in both New future and walking backwards. I have never South Wales and Queensland to get him out seen anybody as bright and cheeky as hon. of his difficulty. members opposite, all for the benefit of the Mr. WHARTON (Burnett) (8.59 p.m.): I hon. member for Isis. appreciate what the hon. member for I rose primarily to compliment all those Fassifern has said. I have known the hon. employed in the Department of Primary member for many years, both when he was Industries for the part they play. It is a in Opposition and since he has been on this department with very wide ramifications; it side of the Chamber. I respect him for the has a very wide bearing on the State's part that he has played in the dairying progress, and I could go so far as to mdustry, and I compliment him on his many say that if the hon. member for Isis did fruitful years in it. He is very knowledgable, have something to growl about, and it was and I am sure that hon. members on both fair enough, I would go along with it. sides of the House will wish him well in Primary producers constitute the most l1is retirement. important section of population of our State; Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1817 there is no question about this, because After four years of relatively low prices, primary industries wherever situated provide the new International Sugar Agreement will employment--and that applies in industries place the industry on a sound basis for the of the sugar-grower, the wheat-grower, the recovery of prices within reasonable limits. pig and veal man, the cotton-grower, and Therefore, the new agreement is of immense so on. importance to the Australian sugar industry. Yet we have heard members of the Opposi­ Primary producers play a very important tion say that the agreement will not be part in the community. Upon their pros­ ratified. I appreciate the problems tha:t perity depends the prosperity of towns and confront the sugar industry, but I look cities. Apart from their contribution to further than the mere howling, whingeing employment in those centres they contribute and wailing that we have heard about aJ.I largely to employment in our capital city, of us facing ruin. I am sure that the agreement will provide benefits to our sugar throughout the State, and even throughout industry for a long time to come. the Commonwealth. In addition, they play an important role in the transport and ship­ Mr. Davies: Can you tell us why there's ping industries, and in all the other places 26 per cent.-- where the needs of primary industries are Mr. WHARTON: Would the hon. member felt. like to shut up for a moment? It would do us all a lot of good if he would. Mr•. Wallis-Smith: Do you have any prob­ lems m your area? Mr. Davies: Did you tell ~he same story in the streets of Childers? Mr. WHARTON: Of course we do. Every­ Mr. WHARTON: I never told •any story body ha~ problems. 0Ir primary industries are passmg through difficult times. I heard in the streets at all. The hon. member the hon. member for Fassifern and others told all the stories, and told a lot of untruths complain about the difficulties that confront about the tourist industry and the sugar our industries. I recall that when I went industry. He is still on them ·and he cannot to work in a grocery store and received shut up. Will you shut up, please? I am a. wage of only £3/4/0 a week it was pos­ sorry, Mr. Speaker. sible even then for primary industries to As a Government, we have tried to ensure develop. Today they cannot because the that the sugar-grower gets $86 a ton for policy of the Australian Labour Party has his sugar. Costs have not stayed put; Vhey resulted in increases in costs to almost 400 are rising every day, and they will continue :per cent. Every time the basic wage is to rise, so obviously we will need a little mcreased or an electrician is paid an increase more. If we cannot get $86 a ton from the or a sugar-mill worker obtains an increase' various sources· and pool prices, we must costs rise and farming costs rise. The Aus: come in with a support scheme from the tralian Labour Party is responsible for driv­ Commonwealth Government to try to ensure ing ou~ primary industries out of the country. that growers get an adequate return to cover OppositiOn members are trying to bring about their costs. That is what we must aim at. the swansong of primary producers but We cannot say, "If this does not happen, they . are endeavouring to get the f~rmers we will all be ruined." The new Inter­ on Side. They are quibbling. The hon. national Sugar Agreement will help the sugar member for Isis was worrying about the industry greatly. I am sure that it will "bunnies" in his electorate. I can only be signed; I !have no doubt about that. In hope that he does not make "bunnies" of that event, if we still cannot get enough the sugar-growers. for the sugar farmers, we will just have to supplement their returns with a support Mr. R. Jones: You think you are a scheme. primary producer just because you are mak­ ing yourself "hoarse". I regret that I cannot say more. I know that the Minister wants to say something Mr. WHARTON: It took the hon. mem­ about the loans, etc., which the sugar industry ber for Cairns a long time to think of that appreciates. The agreement, I hope, will one. progressively help our sugar industry. I do want to ref~r to our sugar industry, Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister because here I thmk we need to answer for Primary Industries) (9.12 p.m.): Firstly, some things that have been said. Obviously I emphasise my appreciation of the speakers the hon. member who has just been elected on both sides of the House who have taken :to this House does not expect the sugar part in this debate. The first speaker was agreement to be ratified. I suppose that the hon. member for Landsborough, who if it is not ratified by 1 January he will made quite a number of very good points. say that he should resign. He says that we In his short term in this House he !has will not get this and we will not get that. shown tha:t he is a very thoughtful young What about some forward thinking? He member. Every speech he makes is based cannot win any votes down here. He might on sound premises of thought, concept and win them up in Isis, but he will not win any application. I was most impresced by his down here unless he thinks and speaks in a grasp of the over-all economic situation of forward way. our rural industries. I know from past 1818 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply experience that he has a good knowledge this connection I reiterate my remarks during: of !'he position in his electorate, which the debate on the Estimates of my depart­ comprises a great number of facets of ment, a,nd I say this quite factually. Over all,. primary industry, each and every one of those in the sugar industry were generally which he studies w}th acumen. Every time in favour of expansion. There were, of he makes a speech he shows that he has course, some who disagreed, most of whom, a knowledge of each of the industries, which like me, were confined and had no room is most important. I took particular note to expand, so they did not want any expan­ of his appreciation of the need for regional sion. But most of the growers-the old researoh and extension, and the need for growers with land available for additional professionally qualified people to provide assignment and the new growers-wanted to' these services. Indeed, he is a Bachelor of take part in what was referred to as the· Agricultural Science and, naturally, is a golden era. successful farmer. As such, he appreciates the value of the scientists in my department I have been a grower for many years. In· and the part they play in giving service fact, my family has grown cane since the to agricultural industries throughout the beginning of the century. We have seen State. the ups and down and the hills and dales. in the sugar industry. Every time a grower On the matter of co-ordination in agricuL came to me, particularly a new grower with ture, I was indeed pleased to hear the hon. little or no finance, I advised him to be member's reference to the Au~tralian careful because we were on the hill and Agricultural Council. I have no doubt tihat the dale was below us. Nevertheless, there that council will be the body that eventually are always people who are against expan­ has to sort out most of the problems sion. I sincerely hope that the hon. member associated with section 92 of the Common· for Isrs does not associate with some of the· wealth Constitution. The Ministers for "knockers" we have had in this House who· Agriculture or Primary Industries from each have been opposed to any form of expansion. State meet twice a year, and I believe that much good comes from our deliberations. Opposition Members interjected. It is only by an association of ideas among Mr. ROW: Opposition members should not Ministers and their advisers at these try to talk me down. They are not in the· conferences that we get some comprehension race, because I am in full voice tonight. of the difficulties faced by eaoh State, and by this method we .are able to iron out I wonder if the hon. member for Isis has some of the troubles associated with inter­ fully comidered what the position would state trade. be today if we had not expanded. Admittedly The second speaker was the hon. member the new International Sugar Agreement is for Tsis, whom I congratulate on his election only a draft until it is ratified. However, to Parliament. I congraJtulated him on his I believe that it will be ratified, and appar­ election this morning, and I now congratu­ ently so does the world sugar market, because late him on his speech. I was particularly since this agreement was reached in Geneva impressed by his reference to his association the London price of sugar has jumped' and friend;~hip with our late Premier, the £Stg.10. Under the agreement we have a Honourable Jack Pizzey. Indeed, from the basic free-market quota of 1,100,000 tons. Isis electorate, and from the town of Childers Is the hon. member aware that if we had' itself, have come some remarkably compe­ not expanded our quota would be less than tent men in the sugar industry. I refer, one-third of that, because our combined peak for instance, to the late Mr. Ben Foley, production was previously about 1,250,00(] who was Chairman of the Queensland Cane tons? Growers' Council for many years. There Much was made of the position of growers. was also Sir Alfred Brand, a former State If I remember rightly, the hon. member said and Federal Member of Parliament, who that although his production has been was President of the Australian Sugar increased from 1,700 tons to 5,000 tons he Producers' Association for many years. So is worse off financially. the hon. member can be proud that he is following in the footsteps of prominent Mr. R. Jones: He did not say that. men who played an impressive part not only for trhe electorate of Isis and the town Mr. ROW: I may be wrong there, but I of Childers, but for the State of Queensland, understood him to say something like that. and indeed, Australia. If I am wrong, I apologise to him. If he sold his farm with a 5,000-ton peak, I As I expected, and, I suppose, as we wonder if he would get the same amount all expected, the hon. member's speech was as he would have got when he had a 1 ,700- confined to the sugar industry. As a cane­ ton peak. The Isis area's peak was increased grower, I have some knowledge of this by 75 per cent. That gave it an additional industry. While I agree with him on the 30,000 tons of sugar. This meant at least importance of the industry, I believe that 25 to 30 new growers in the. area. So I he will in time discover that there are other believe that overall the expansion did play important rural industries. Almost all of an important part in accelerating the growth his remarks were concerned with the 1963-64 of those towns and cities that rely mostly or1 expansion programme and its effects. In sugar for their economy. Supply [26 NovEMBER] Supply 1819

Then there were the new growers. There The hon. member also mentioned Joe were about 8,000 persons who wanted new McAvoy. was pleased to hear him men­ assignments, but only about 1,200 were able tioned, because he is president of the to get them because there was only sufficient Queensland Cane Growers' Council and has been elevated to office in the National sugar available for that number. Since I Farmers' Union, which is a great honour for have been a Minister I do not know how a very good Queenslander. He is one of the many letters I have received from members most level-headed men that one could find on both sides of the House asking me why anywhere, and he supports the new agree­ so-and-so did not get a new cane assignment. ment. He is not a "knocker"; he is a man No-one thought then that the industry was of broad outlook and it seems to me a great going to be in serious straits in the next pity that there are not a few more Joe three or four years. McAvoys in the sugar industry today. There is one other point that I should I was pleased to hear the hon. member like to clear up. On the matter of loans to for Tablelands say that the tobacco industry the industry, I remind hon. members that stabilisation scheme was working well. It is these were negotiated by the industry itself. in fact working well. It was introduced The representatives of the industry-the by the Government, and it is a good scheme. Queensland Cane Growers' Council, the When we get an Australian quota of Australian Sugar Producers' Association and 32,000,000 lb., it will really be an excellent the Proprietary Sugar Millers' Association­ one. met the Premier and decided to approach the We endeavour to screen all new pesticides Commonwealth with this application for a to the maximum extent possible. As regards loan. Presumably they knew what they DDT, a hydrocarbon, I might mention that wanted. On the point of the interest which we have already made much progress and, was quite rightly raised by the hon. member, as I said in my answer, it should not be the interest on the $19,000,000 loan relates to necessary as yet to introduce legislation to the initial period when the money was made deal with it. It has been dealt with by available from the Reserve Bank. Once the co-operation among my department, chemical Commonwealth Government "came to the firms and, above all, farmers, who are the party", the interest ceased and it will not people who have to accept the responsibility. apply again till 1970. The hon. member for I always believe that co-operation is better Isis was quite right in ra1smg this point, than legislation if the objective can be but I thought that I should tell the House achieved in that way. the history of it. There is one further point that may be I believe that we have to look at the of interest to the hon. member. I made over-all long-term result. It is true that a Press statement earlier today advising there has been a period of difficulty, but it tobacco growers that the ballot papers on is a temporary situation and the industry's their hail insurance scheme are on their long-term prospects are much better because way to them. I thank him for his compli­ of the expansion. I believe, as I have always ment to me and to my departmental officers said, that in the ultimate the sugar industry for the way in which the rolls have been will be as prosperous as it has always been, cleaned up. and always will make a magnificent contri­ I congratulate the hon. member for bution to the economy of Queensland. I Tablelands on his support, for once in know this industry too well. I have faith his life, of soil conservation. I will cer­ in it and the people in it. tainly support any move for a maximum Mr. HoustQn: They haven't got much effort in that field. faith in you. The hon. member for Fassifern mentioned ticks, and I entirely disagree with him on Mr. ROW: My word they have! Let hon. that matter. There is a multi-resistant tick members opposite try to wrest my seat from in Queensland and most stock inspectors me and see how they get on. And I am in are presently engaged in the tick areas. If a Labour seat, in which there are two large ever the real problem is solved, more stock sugar mills. You can have a go at me with inspectors will be available to send to areas anyone you like to send up. in which the problem does not arise. Unfortunately, the problem relates not only Mr. Tucker: Wouldn't your face be red to stock inspectors but also to agricultural if you were beaten! scientists and veterinarians. In fact, it is not so much a question of a shortage of Mr. ROW: The hon. member for Mul­ funds-thanks to a very good Treasurer grave, in his own inimitable fashion, made -as an acute shortage of qualified men, a very good point. He indicated quite clearly and the department is endeavouring to that the new growers did not turn their sugar supplement its own veterinary resources by assignments down; every time they got a using private practitioners where possible. chance for an assignment, they grabbed it. In fact, they scrambled for them. There Although I must take issue with the hon. were over 8,000 applications, and only 1,200 member for Fassifern on his concept of became new growers. That is what those and thoughts about the facts relative to :people thought about the need for expansion. nhe sugar industry, I do appreciate his 1820 Ways and Means [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) thorough and complete understanding of most sum not exceeding $176,650,545 be granted rural matters, more particularly the dairy­ out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of ing industry, with which he has had a Queensland exclusive of the moneys stand­ very long and very dose association. He ing to the credit of the Loan Fund put his finger right on the pulse when Account. he said that the industry will have to "(b) That, towards making good the sort out its own problems. I assure him Supply granted to Her Majesty, for the that I do meet leaders of the industry service of the year 1968-1969, a further from time to time. I met some last sum not exceeding $251,201,242 be granted week and some this week, and I am to meet some tomorrow and some next week. from the Trust and Special Funds. I am very happy to meet them and talk "(c) That, towards making good the their problems over with them. Supply granted to Her Majesty, for the I think that the hon. member's idea service of the year 1968-1969, a further sum of a committee of Parliamentarians, ir.re­ not exceeding $52,112,000 be granted from spective of the brand of politics to which the moneys standing to the credit of the they adhere, and representatives of the Loan Fund Account. dairying industry is quite a good one. This "(d) That, towards making good the is not a political matter, and I think that Supply granted to Her Majesty, for the the people on such a committee could service of the year 1967-1968, a supple­ well get together and thrash out the industry's mentary sum not exceeding $18,743,849.63 problems. be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue The hon. member mentioned also the Fund of Queensland exclusive of the report on the Brisbane milk market. I do moneys standing to the credit of the Loan not intend to touch on that subject, which Fund Account. is full of problems. "(e) That, towards making good the He mentioned the weighbridge at Cannon Supply granted to Her Majesty, for the Hill. If the industry wants a weighbridge, service of the year 1967-1968, a supple­ I shall be very happy to co-operate. The mentary sum not exceeding $4,597,227.75 reason for the decrease in the number be granted from the Trust and Special of stock at Cannon Hill is that the Queens­ Funds. land Meat Industry Authority is now allowing "(f) That, towards maki?g good the 14 abattoirs to supply meat to Brisbane. Supply granted to Her MaJesty, for the Mr. Houston: It was your recommenda­ service of the year 1967-1968, a supple­ tion. You want all these little abattoirs. mentary sum not exceeding $9,040,381.54 be granted from the moneys standing to the Mr. ROW: I want them, and I want credit of the Loan Fund Account. Cannon Hill, too. "(g) That, towards making good the Mr. Houston: You do not. Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1969-1970, a Mr. ROW: I do. sum not exceeding $59,000,000 be granted I congratulate the hon. member for out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Burnett on his very accurate, if rather acid, Queensland exclusive of the moneys stand­ summing up of the new injection of life ing to the credit of the Loan Fund into the Opposition. As he did, I also Account. predict that it will be short-lived. "(h) That, towards making good the At 9.30 p.m. Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1969-1970, a Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Under the pro­ sum not exceeding $58,000,000 be granted visions of Standing Order No. 307, I shall from the Trust and Special Funds. now put the Resolution under discussion and all other Resolutions not already agreed "(i) That, towards making good the to by the House. Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1969-1970, a Resolution 4-Departrnent of Primary sum not exceeding $14,000,000 be granted Industries---4greed to. from the moneys standing to the credit of Resolutions 5 to 23, both inclusive, agreed the Loan Fund Account." to. Motion agreed to. WAYS AND MEANS Resolutions reported, received, and agreed OPENING OF COMMITTEE to. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair) APPROPRIATION BILL No. 2 Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer-Trea­ surer): I move- FIRST READING "(a) That, towards making good the A Bill, founded on the Resolutions reported Supply granted to Her Majesty, for the from the Committee of Ways and Means, service of the year 1968-1969, a further was introduced and read a first time. Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [26 NovEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1821

SECOND READING the western people. The dairy industry is also Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer­ feeling some serious effects, and it would be Treasurer) (9.32 p.m.): I move- right to add that a great many other rural "That the Bill be now read a second industries are equally affected. Without time." early storm rains and a good wet season With a final Appropriation Bill, it is usual the seasonal position could again become for the Treasurer to inform the House of very serious. I think it would be fair to any likely departures from his Budget. I say that seasonal conditions are the one big think it will be apparent to all hon. members question mark in assessing likely results for that, subsequent to the framing and presenta­ the financial year 1968-69, and at this tion of the Budget to the House, factors can stage it would be quite impossible to make and do arise which have a material effect on any dogmatic assertions as to the likely the Budget. This year is proving to be no financial position by 30 June, 1969. How­ exception to this general experience. ever, if we are given a reasonably normal It is already very clear that the State will season and sympathetic consideration by the incur, both directly and indirectly, a heavy Commonwealth of the State's claims relative additional cost in salaries and wages above to unforseen salary and wages costs, I see the appropriations provided in the Budget. no reason for worrying greatly about the There will be the factor of the "flow-on" from general financial position. the added 30 per cent. under the Metal Another matter of interest, which has Trades Award. However, the really big arisen since I last spoke on an Appropriation factor will be the $1.35 a week awarded in Bill, is the abolition by the Commonwealth the national wages case and its "flow-on" Government as from 1 November, 1968, of under State awards. It is also apparent that the income tax rebate of 10c for each dollar there will be other increases. of Commonwealth loan interest. I think it Now it is true that the total cost of all is good for the House to know that this: these increases will not fall solely on the rebate was introduced in 1942 to retain the State's own resources. Each State can expect benefit of the exemption of Commonwealth an increase in the amount of the Financial bond interest from State taxes which applied Assistance Grant from the Commonwealth before the uniform tax arrangements came because of these added salary and wages into existence. The rebate was considered costs. The added costs wiii reflect themselves at that time to be equivalent to the value of in the application of the present formula the previous exemption. The rebate was also under which the amount of grant is assessed. applied in respect of certain loans issued by However, that formula will by no means pro­ semi-governmental bodies in some States vide sufficient funds to meet all extra costs in where the issues were free of State income 1968-69. Unfortunately, I am not in a posi­ tax. As hon. members are no doubt aware, tion at present to be able to state definite the rebate was allowed as an offset to the figures of the likely net additional cost in tax payable on all income of the taxpayer. the Budget. Some costs are known, and Its effect was therefore the same as others are yet to crystallise. However, it is additional tax-free income to the taxpayer, clear that the net cost will be a substantial and its value to various taxpayers varied figure and will be well in excess of the tenta­ according to the rate of tax payable by the tive provisions made by me in the Budget for taxpayer on his income. salary and wage escalations generally. Where the holder of the bonds was not Other than the wage "flow-on", expendi­ liable to pay income tax, then, of course, the ture seems to be well contained to the present rebate was of no value. It could only be of time and, in total, should keep within the value where there was a tax liability against approved Estimates. In this direction, I think which it could be offset. Where, however, I should say that I am indeed appreciative the taxpayer had a large taxable income, the of the action taken by my ministerial col­ rebate was quite attractive. To such a tax­ leagues and departmental executive officers payer, an effective pre-tax yield of nearly 6t in their careful handling of their depart­ per cent. was possible. The comparable yield ments. Income is moving satisfactorily, and for a person on, J.et us say, an annual taxable promises at this stage to be well up to the income of between $4,000 and $4,800, would estimate. be about 6.07 per cent. and, for a company The one factor that is causing me some paying tax of 45c in the dollar the effective concern is the deteriorating seasonal con­ yield was 6.20 per cent. I believe that ditions in some of our rural areas owing members of the House will be able to see to a very hot dry spring and an ea-rly summer from this that the rebate had widely varying without the usual storm rains. Some effects on different taxpayers and could unfortunate storms have occurred, and some hardly be said to be an equitable arrange­ light rainfalls have occurred, but there is ment for attracting Commonwealth loan sub­ no real indication of an early general break

Hence, the rebate really deprived the long­ Commonwealth securities will continue to term bond rate of some of its importance as apply and will assist in maintaining previous ~· key rate in the structure of interest rates levels of subscriptions. Hon. members will in our economy. recollect that, under this rule, life companies and superannuation funds which invest at Recently, however, the rebate gave rise least 20 per cent. of investible funds in to some abuse through the procedure which Commonwealth inscribed stock and, at option, has been termed "rebate-washing". This up to a further 10 per cent. in semi-govern­ involved purchasing Commonwealth securi­ mental debentures, obtain very attractive ties near the date on which interest became taxation concessions. payable, collecting the interest, and so becom­ ing entitled to the rebate, and then immedi­ The discontinuance of the rebate will tend ately disposing of the stock. The amount to make semi-governmental loans a more of redemptions increased substantially under attractive investment than Commonwealth this practice, thus reducing the amount of loans without the rebate. The new long-term loan money available for new works. This bond rate of 5.4 per cent. is below the "rebate-washing" was a practice obviously current maximum semi-governmental loan adopted purely for the purpose of reducing rate of 5.625 per cent. for public issues and income tax liability, and it did nothing but 5.875 per cent. for private loans, whereas narm to the organised development of the previously the rebate made the Common­ Commonwealth loan market, with which we wealth loans more rewarding than semi­ are very closely associated. governmental securities. It will take time for the various lenders to adjust to the These were the main reasons why the position. At this stage I shall only remark Commonwealth Government decided to dis­ that some large semi-governmental loan offers continue the entitlement to the rebate as have been made since the abolition of the far as future issues are concerned. There rebate and that these lenders were probably will, of course, be no repudiation as far as influenced by that factor. I will watch with past issues go. The Commonwealth will interest to see how the market sorts itself continue to allow the rebate on ex1stmg out, and whether there is any marked adverse issues until they ma·ture, some as late as effect on the level of subscriptions to the year 2004. Commonwealth loans. The Commonwealth has recognised that I now want to make some brief observa­ any upward adjustment in interest rates to tions on the question of overseas investments compensate for the discontinuance of the in Australia. I say quite sincerely that there rebate will fall initially on the States which is a lot of nonsense being talked about this meet the interest bill, whereas the benefit of subject, and in my opinion there is a the abolition of the rebate will accrue to tremendous body of uninformed opinion. I the Commonwealth through increased income am not going to exclude the Opposition from tax coUections. The Commonwealth has that category. The Opposition is, of course. therefore undertaken to take this additional anxious to accept all the benefits which flow cost into account when reviewing the from overseas investment in Australia, but it Financial Assistance Grants in 1970, and does not seek to accept the responsibilities. has also promised to reimburse the cost to I think it is about time we started to look the States until that review takes place. at this position in the broad, and tried to It is of course difficult at this stage to see the balanced picture. It is about time gauge the effect of the discontinuance of the that we paused to consider where we might have been on a national basis without this rebate on the level of over-all Common­ large influx of overseas capital in the past wealth loan subscriptions. For the first loan offered without the rebate, the long-term few years. rate has been increased from 5.25 per cent. Usually the criticism levelled at the to 5.4 per cent. and there have also been Government over its policy of encouraging small increases for the shorter-term securities. overseas investment is on a local basis. These increases will not anywhere nearly Objection is taken to some particular condi­ compensate for the loss of the rebate to tion or form of assistance in a particular individual holders with substantial taxable case. Tonight I want to draw the attention incomes or to companies which were pre­ of this House to the wider principles con­ viously able to claim the rebate against tax nected with overseas investment, and some paid by them. On the other hand the of the debits and credits of the flow of over­ increased interest rate will prove more seas investment to Australia. attractive to investors who were not able First let me point out that the Australian to benefit from the tax rebate. Some inter­ economy is devoting more than a quarter of change of holding of existing securities can Gross National Product to capital expendi­ be expected with those investors who can ture. This is one of the highest rates of benefit from the rebate tending to buy exist­ capital expenditure anywhere in the world. ing issues on the market, and those not A publication issued by the United Nations able to collect the rebate selling their existing entitled "Yearbook of National Accounts holdings and subscribing for the higher­ Statistics'" gives figures for many countries, interest new issues. The 30/20 rule which from which the percentages of capital at present encourages the investment of life expenditure for major countries have been insurance and superannuation funds in calculated. The latest figures available at Appropriation Bill (No. 2) (26 NOVEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1823 the time of publication were for 1965-66. in export earnings or by cutting down on the Japan heads the list with 31.3 per cent., need to import commodities that would other­ followed by Norway with 29.2 per cent., wise have been a charge against our external Switzerland with 27.7 per cent., and Australia balances. with 27.6 per cent. The percentage for Another way of appreciating the benefits West Germany is 26.6, whilst for Canada >of overseas investment is to consider what it is 24.6, for the Netherlands 24.5, for ~he situation would have been in the absence New Zealand 24.1. for Sweden 23.6, for lOf such investment. With imports running France 21.7, for the United Kingdom 17.6, nt high levels and with export returns and for the United States 17.2. depressed by drought and by low export For the year 1967-68 the Commonwealth Prices, Australia would have had little prac­ Bulletin "National Income and Expenditure", tical alternative but to take action to cut issued in conjunction with the 1968-69 down imports. Just what form this action Federal Budget, shows that gross fixed would have taken is not my concern at the capital expenditure in Australia, excluding moment, but it would have been action of increases in stocks, was $6,261 million, which a type that would have affected every citizen represents almost 26 per cent. of Gross throughout the nation. A policy of restric­ National Product. These figures are on a lion does not appeal to me as a means of slightly different basis from those published overcoming a chronic balance-of-payments by the United Nations, but they show the problem. I far prefer the bolder line of same picture. The point I want to make action to stimulate export projects. As I is simply this: that, but for the net capital have already stated the fact is that the neces­ inflow into Australia of $1,159 million for sity for restrictive action on imports has that year, we would have been unable to been avoided by the inflow of overseas devote such a high proportion of Gross capital. Moreover, this inflow has had the National Product to capital expenditure. further advantages of speeding up the rate In very broad terms, the national product at which we have been able to develop our can be used only for consumption or for resources and providing a better chance of capital purposes. Expenditure for capital stabilising our balance of payments ·in future. purposes represents the amounts provided Queensland will, of course, take part largely by businesses by way of depreciation allow­ in these advantages since this is one State ances, undistributed profits, and other forms where the resources are available for develop­ of retained income, plus savings by ment. It is clear that Queensland stands individuals, any surplus by public authorities to gain from the accelerated rate of develop­ and the capital inflow. It will be realised ment. This has been the Government's con­ that, without overseas assistance, the amount firmed view and this has been its policy. normally available for capital purposes could We want to see major projects established only be increased in total at the expense of with Australian capital, but the plain fact expenditure in some other area, such as is that there is just not enough local capital expenditure on consumer goods. available to meet local needs. If we waited Let us look at this in another way ~y for this capital to become available, Queens­ considering the total resources available m land would miss the opportunities that are Australia. If more of these resources are offering. Failing full Australian promotion to be directed to provision of capital equip­ of these developments, we would like to ment, then obviously there must be a reduc­ see Australian participation wherever possible. tion in the amount available for other We feel this is a sound principle, but we 'purposes. It is here that overseas invest­ are not going to take this policy to a 'ment has been particularly helpful to our point where it results in little or no develop­ uver-all development. It has provided an ment because of a lack of local financial ·increasing proportion of the funds available resources. Queensland had enough of stag· :for capital expenditure, about 18} per cent. nation when the Opposition was a 'being provided from this source in 1967-68. Government. Apart from an immediate benefit to In addition to sharing in the national Australia's overseas reserves, investment advantages certain other benefits flow, from from overseas is vital ·in the longer term Queensland's point of view, from the assist­ to Australia's balance-of-payments position. ance of overseas capital. One of these is Much of the overseas capital investment has greater stabilty in our economy and less been directed to export projects, particularly dependence upon seasonal conditions and in the mining sphere, and will add sub­ overseas prices. Queensland has a definite ·Stantially to our future export earnings. It seasonal cycle in employment, creatt>d by 'is certain that, for every dollar of profit the high demand, during certain months of or capital charges to be repatriated at some the year, for labour, for such industries as ,future date from Australia, there will be a sugar, meat and shearing. In addition to considerably greater amount of export income this problem that recurs every year, our available to finance imports or add to economy has been seriously affected by Australia's external balances. drought and the instability of overseas prices There cannot be any doubt that overseas for some of our major products. Industrial 'investment must be of considerable net development, even if it is financed by over­ 'benefit to Australia's future balance-of pay­ seas capital, will reduce the relative import­ ments position, whether through direct increase ance of seasonal effects in our primary 1824 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2)

industries and also the relative importance does occur we must face the possibility of a of fluctuations in seasonal conditions from further increase in interest rates-a course year to year. which I do not favour. Whilst any increase Mr. W. D. Hewitt: It has been ironed would be recouped to the States by the out very substantially already. Commonwealth, it would be a matter for considerable concern if semi-governmental Mr. CHALK: There is no doubt about that; debenture rates also moved in sympathy. In the influx of capital has assisted in that direction. this behalf the recent movement in the bond rate did not affect the debenture rate-but There has been criticism of the Govern­ it is questionable whether further increases ment for allowing the export of large could be absorbed without some sympathetic quantities of coking coal. Again, our critics movement in the debenture rate. have missed the most important point associ­ ated with such development. While the export I have put to the House some national of coal is important from the national point aspects of the effect of foreign investment in of view in assisting the balance-of-payments Queensland, especially in the mining industry. position, there is a more important fact so For all the argument that the Opposition has far as Queensland is concerned. The adduced in opposition to development by development of huge mines and special rail­ means of foreign capital, the fact is that it is ways is awakening the world to the fact this very investment that has helped Australia that cheap coal can become available on in its remarkable developmental effort in the Queensland coast and this, in turn, is recent years. It has also made possible the leading to the likelihood of industrial develop­ many national benefits, both direct and ments which need massive quantities of heat indirect, that have flowed from that effort. or power. I see these export projects mainly as stepping stones to large-scale utilisation It is with these thoughts in mind and con­ of the other mineral and chemical resources scious of the fact that the Budget for 1968-69 available in this State. highlights Queensland's march to progress, It is well known that the establishment of that I commend the Biii to the House. one industry triggers the establishment of Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the subsidiary industries, and I believe that, given Opposition) (10.9 p.m.): I am sure that, as the availabilty of a major power-house with the Treasurer's speech indicated, this is the cheap coal available for fuel, the inevitable last open debate before the next State elec­ chain reaction will result in the establishment tion. A month or so ago we heard the Treas­ of a wide range of industries. Taking this a urer speak of his Budget in glowing terms stage further, I expect that special indus­ and tell the people of Queensland that there tries will not only expand our population by was nothing to worry about; that the economy creating employment opportunities but will was buoyant; and that it was a "march to also improve the welfare of Queensland's progress" Budget. In other words he painted residents by increasing average earnings in a glowing picture of the tremendous progress this State. Altogether the opportunities offer­ in Queensland under the guidance of this ing are exciting to a degree and are a com­ Government, but since the Isis by-election he plete vindication of the Government's policy has had second thoughts and has come to the of development from Australian and overseas conclusion that maybe the public as a whole financial resources. is not accepting his submissions in the way he I have tried to present this appreciation in intended. He is now starting to make excuses considered terms and to draw the attention so that, if things go wrong, he can say, "Well, of the House to the broad issues. Of course, I did forecast this when I spoke on the use of overseas capital has its advantages and second Appropriation Bill." I am not sur­ disadvantages. But to my mind it is clear prised at the Treasurer's taking this step that, in our local context, the advantages both because it is very clear that the Government short and long term so outweigh the dis­ got a jolt and is now looking for a way out. advantages that the wisdom of the Govern­ ment's policy is beyond any possible doubt. I do not think that we can deny that Governments are judged on two main The three issues on which I have touched factors. The first relates to the handling of in the course of introducing this final Appro­ finances, and how the Government can put priation Bill are, in their own way, matters its story across to the people to persuade of prime importance. them that they are better off under the I feel that, at this stage, the Consolidated Government than under any previous Revenue Fund for 1968-69 is heading in a Governments; that they are better off under satisfactory direction, with seasonal condi­ the Government, than under the alternative tions the one source of possible future worry. Government. If the Treasurer and the Government can do that successfuiiy, that It is yet too early to judge the effect of is fair enough, and they get the electors' abolition of the IOc tax rebate on support. I suppose I should admit, and interest on Commonwealth Inscribed Stock. I can admit, that, in later years, they have However, I have the feeling that the net effect been able to fool enough of the electors of the abolition might well be some lessening into believing that they have been ma.naging of support for Commonwealth loans. If this the State's affairs successfuily whereas, in Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [26 NOVEMBER) Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1825 fact, as we have pointed out on several Government members who are so intent on occa.sions •. there have been many short­ quoting Labour's policy from some docu­ commgs m governmental expenditure. ments-! do not know where they get In the Budget debate which has just them-cared to look at Labour's official concluded hon. members on this side of policy documents, they would clearly see l'he House definitely and conclusively proved what Labour's official policy is on liquor. that the Government's handling of finances We certainly do not want to do what the has not been up to the expected standard. Government does. Let us look at some of the things the Government has done and . The other .factor, of course, is the public has talked about. Image, that IS, whether or not the public thinks that the Government of the day has Mr. Wharton: What about casinos? a united front and is administering the Mr. HOUSTON: I am quite aware of the affairs of the State in a businesslike manner. arguments on casinos and everything else. I will deal with the second factor first. I do not think anyone can say that the An article in 1963 shows how disunited t!Je Government is a united and happy force, Government was and how it was at cross but we have a situation in Queensland purposes. I shall be pleased to hear the where the Government is not even governing. Treasurer's views on the Liberal Party's atti­ Every issue of importance is shelved for tude. This article states that uniform drink­ consideration on another occasion. If it runs ing laws of Queensland were adopted the pre­ into something that is a little difficult, the vious day as State Country Party policy. The Government, instead of handling the matter Country Party policy in 1963, according to in a businesslike way, with Cabinet its convention, was uniform liquor laws. The accepting responsibility, forms a committee Country Party believed there should not be and passes the matter to it for recommen­ sectional legislation. When did it change? dations. What was the factor that caused it to decide to introduce legislation a couple of years ago Mr. W. D. Hewitt: Would you not say which broke away from that policy? What that the Public Service legislation was major pressure was exerted? legislation? And we are accused of getting directions Mr. HOUSTON: I do not want to run and so forth! I do not suppose anyone would contrary to Mr. Speaker's wishes. A Bill suggest that "The Sunda,y Mail" is a bosom is before the House, and the hon. member pal of the Labour Party. It is always quick should know full well that this is not the to hit the Labour Party on receiving direc­ time to debate the issue. tions and so forth. "The Sunday Mail" of 10 November contains an eye-opening state­ Mr. W. D. Hewitt: I am just asking you ment that the Liberals got the message on if you think it is important legislation. liquor changes. It looks as if the Liberal Mr. HOUSTON: I will tell the hon. members got their directions all right. Which member all about rt:he issues in the Public section of the party got the directions and Service legislation at the second-reading what did the directions amount to? stage. I will admit that the Government Mr. Wharton: Did you get a couple of introduced a Bill relating to the Public bottles of beer in Isis? Service, but I can cite many issues that the Government has run away from; it has Mr. HOUSTON: As a matter of fact, I run away from the issues relating to did, and I got them on a Saturday. On education; it has run away from the land the Sunday I had a drink in a hotel in Isis valuation issues; it has run away from the quite legally, the same as everyone else. I issue of doing something about a civil want the Treasurer to tell me why it is all defence organisation; and last, but not least, right if we are campaigning in Isis to have it has run away from the liquor issue. If a drink on a Sunday, and not all right to the hon. member wishes to deny that there have one anywhere else on a Sunday. These is dissention within the Government ranks are the things we want to know. The on liquor matters I am willing to ib.ear his Country Party's policy is that hotels through­ arguments. out the State should be open. The Premier cracks the whip and says that there will Mr. Wharton: Would you like liquor be no drinking on Sundays. The Treasurer extensions, too? believes that people should drink every Mr. HOUSTON: I tell the hon. member day. The Minister for Justice says that that we want some liquor justice around major liquor law changes will be made. the place. We do not want sectional legis­ Mr. Wharton: What do you say? lation that the Government talks about and fosters. Mr. HOUSTON: As I said, I shall state exactly later on where we stand. Mr. Miller: What sort of justice would you like? Mr. Knox interjected. Mr. HOUSTON: I will tell the people of Mr. HOUSTON: I am sure that the people Queensland quite definitely in about March of Nundah want to know exactly where the exactly what the Labour Party will do. If Minister stands on this matter. 58 1826 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2)

I do not raise this matter simply because people whom I could mention. In his public of what the Press reported but because of the statements the Minister for Justice has propaganda nonsense being disseminated that indicated that he believes that more liquor the Government is united when in fact its licences should be issued, and by that I members are fighting amongst themselves like take it that he means to those cafes that Kilkenny cats. At every opportunity they come up to the required standard. Where are scratching at one another, not knowing did that idea fall down? The Government where they are going. First of all there is Caucus decided that there would be no to be a change, and then there is not to be restrictions on the issuing of liquor licences a change. I do not care about their fighting to cafes, then over-night members opposite and all this type of nonsense because that is to be expected in a marriage of conveni­ decided that that would not be so. They ence as exists at present. While the leaders also decided at a caucus meeting that there of the Government parties select Cabinet would be an extension of liquor-drinking Ministers, naturally there will be those who opportunities at motels, and again that was want to curry favour with their leaders. thrown out. I am annoyed and concerned at the fact The position is not whether we, as an that the Government is trying to fool the Opposition, want any extension of drinking public of this State. at all. It is obvious that the law at present What will be the Government's policy on is not being enforced, and it is also obvious liquor? Surely it has a policy. Or is it like that there is sectional legislation on this everything else? Those who support the non­ matter. I believe that the Government should drinkers will tell the electors, "Our policy is have ascertained, before discussing it at all, not to extend the drinking laws. We believe whether or not there was a need to open it is all right to have the hotels closed all the time." Those who want to drink will hotels in Brisbane on Sundays. A decision tell the electors that they support drinking should also have been made on whether or 24 hours a day. The Country Party fellows not there is justification for extending the will say, "Have no fears. The hotels will number of restaurant liquor licences. Surely be open on Sundays. It is those jolly Libs the Government can come down with some­ who want them closed." The Liberal mem­ thing definite. bers will say, "Look, fellows, we want the As the Treasurer is Acting Premier, no hotels open in Brisbane and we want an doubt he will have, on behalf of the Govern­ extension of the drinking laws, but those ment, some definite views to express on Country Party fellows do not." This is the the matter. The people of Queensland are type of cross-talk going on. I have heard entitled to know exactly where the Govern­ them say it. I have been in their company ment stands. As far as the Opposition is many times. The Treasurer had a chance to concerned let there be no doubt that our tell us his policy and deliberately evaded policy wiil be clearly defined in our deci~ions, doing so. I hope that in his reply he and I shall be enunciating it in detail on will have something to say about it. behalf of my party at the proper _ti_me. The only thing that I regret is that it We will not run away from any deciSions happens to be the Treasurer to whom I that have to be made. One thing about have to put this question. I would have the A.L.P. is that when we go to the been happier if I could ask it of the Premier people with a policy they know without because he is the one whose views I should any doubt that that policy will be put into like to know. I regret that when he came effect. Hon. members opposite have as back from overseas hon. members opposite many different policies as there are factions had not made a decision that would have in their parties. They are ~o longer. a let him off the hook. Unfortunately the coalition of the Country and Liberal parties: hon. member for South Coast mixed things they are now in a factional state and cannot up a bit by asking for a recommittal, which make up their minds on major matters. put the whole matter again up in the air and caused the Premier to crack the whip Mr. W. D. Hewitt: How long did. it take to get all Government members at a meeting. your party to get a policy on State md? Imagine what would have happened if the Labour Party had called a meeting and only Mr. HOUSTON: We have had a policy 19 out of 47, less than half, turned up! on State aid for quite a long time. The One can imagine the headlines that that policy of hon. members opposite is to g!ve would have caused. Hon. members opposite some measure of aid as a means of buymg are running away every time a decision has votes. Government members have no definite to be made. knowledge of the requirements of other than State schools in this State. They do not On the one hand, the Minister for Justice know anything at all about which sc~oo!s has stated that in his opinion cafes that require help and which do not. This . IS come up to the required standard should be shown quite clearly in the policr of grant:ng able to obtain liquor licences. I do not $25 a head. The Government JS not saymg want to misquote him, and I am referring to schools that need aid, "We will help only to his public statements and not things you." that he may have said in private conversation. In taking that attitude, I am not like some Mr. Campbell: You want to discriminate. Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [26 NOVEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1827

Mr. HOUSTON: What is the Government to cast their votes. It is well known that the doing for State schools? Is every State school Liberal Party is very anxious to become the being given exactly the same amount of senior party, and it might think, by deduc­ money to spend? Of course not. The Govern­ tion, "If we can kill off enough Country ment says to them, "You collect so much and Party seats, that might make us the senior we will give you a certain subsidy on it." party." I warn the Treasurer that the If I ask the Minister for an additional class­ Liberal Party has no chance of winning any room for a school in my electorate, the seats from the Australian Labour Party, so reply that I receive is that a decision will all he can hope for is, at best, to be the be made "after the priorities have been looked Leader of the senior party in Opposition. at" as to whether or not an additional class­ In his introductory remarks, the Treasurer room should be built. No matter what State made many comments relative to salaries school parents and citizens' associations or and wages. He said that the increases have headmasters ask for, they have to line up been passed on and will come through to under a system of priorities determined the State. Who is going to take the responsi­ according to the funds available. I have no bility for the constant and consistent increases argument with that; I think it is quite logical in wages? From hearing members of the to do it. Government speak, one would think that it Mr. Lee: It is a sensible plan. is the employees who bring about increases in wages. In fact, as we all know, rising Mr. HOUSTON: Of course it is a sensible costs cause wage and salary earners to go plan. But there is no sense in saying to to industrial tribunals and seek wage justice. every private school in this State, "We will If the Government is going to cry about give you an amount of money based on the having to pay additional wages and salaries, number of children at the school, irrespec­ I suggest that it should look at the action tive of whether you have a science block, of governments in both Federal and State a library, or an assembly hall." Some of spheres and see whether or not they are the older and better-known schools in this contributing greatly to the increase in costs State are so well endowed that people can­ and to the constant increase in wages and not get their children into them unless they salaries. enrol them at birth. In some instances they have to take a punt before birth as to No-one in this country looks forward to whether it is going to be a boy or a girl. the escalation of costs. Certainly, as has The public thinks that these schools are first­ been said in this Chamber, the primary pro­ class teaching establishments, otherwise that ducer does not want it; I agree with that. sort of thing would not be going on. Do If the State is to export its primary and hon. members opposite think that schools secondary production, it has to keep costs such as these need money as much as do down. Certainly the wage-earner does not some primary schools in other areas? want it, because every time prices rise he is a little worse off. Those who are on a fixed Mr. Miner: Of course they do. They are income do not want it, either, because the all in debt. greatest burden of all falls on them. When Mr. HOUSTON: In reply to the hon. the Federal Government is so unsympathetic, member for Chatsworth, I say that I do not I do not know how pensioners even exist, think that the Government has a worth­ let alone live, under present conditions. while policy. Its only consideration is Mr. Wharton: Why don't you help the whether it is possible to buy the votes of pensioners in Hervey Bay? parents of children who go to the schools to which I have been referring by giving Mr. HOUSTON: The pensioners up there them a few dollars. That is the policy of had their greatest possible help a week ago the Government, and I say that it is a policy when they elected Jim Blake as their member. that is not in the best interests of the great When State and Federal Labour Govern­ majority of the people of Queensland. ments take office we will do many things In regard to civil defence, what prepara­ to help them. If the hon. member wants to tion has the Government made to meet know what we have done, the Labour Party problems arising from bush fires, droughts, gave them Hm Blake as a member. If the cyclones. and so on? When something hap­ hon. member could persuade his Federal pens, it says that it will take action; but no colleagues to do something about the pen­ organisation has been set up in the State sioners I am sure that would be a great help. and no money is available for any such Every man and woman in the Labour Party undertaking. in the Federal house, the hon. member can rest assured, is constantly advocating a better Mr. Davies: The Government could not deal for those on the lower incomes. There find a Minister, to go up to Killarney, and is only one State in the Commonwealth it rushed one Liberal Minister up to the held by Labour. That is Tasmania, and the by-election at Isis. rest, Federal and State, are held by anti­ Mr. HOUSTON: That is true. The Labour Forces. There is not way the hon. Minister for Transport was the only Liberal member can pass the blame onto us. who went up to Isis, and I should be very In most States those anti-Labour forces interested to know what he told some of the have held office through fear and other snide Liberals there relative to the way in which practices in campaigning. But I think the 1828 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) day has passed when hon. members opposite developing Queensland because many com­ can get away with these things. They are panies have started their operations here, the greatest exponents in the world of the whereas in fact the companies have been fright and fear complex in political cam­ given every assistance to the detriment of paigning. They started off, at the beginning many of our local people. of my political career, with the Petrov case, and, on the success achieved with that fear I do not want to reiterate statements complex, they have continued at every elec­ that were made during the Budget debate tion to come up with a new gimmick. This relative to housing and State financial time, however, the bubble will burst. assistance that was provided to those com­ panies instead of being provided to other The Treasurer again started to use the industries; but the Treasurer cannot deny fear complex in his speech tonight, but he that most of the equipment that is used is not frightening me. I am not worried in the alumina works at Gladstone, in whether or not he or any other member the bauxite development at Weipa and in of his party comes into my electorate. There the coal mines, was made outside Australia. is some advantage in having an opponent When the Treasurer talks about the amount in that your own name is kept before the of local money that is spent to buy things, public. he is really referring to its use to get The Treasurer mentioned overseas capital. these industries under way. I would be If ever the Labour Party has been misquoted much happier if these companies came to on anything it is on its attitude to overseas Australia with their money and fostered capital. development and used local industries. I know that hon. members on the Govern­ Mr. Lickiss: Are you running for cover ment side will say that we do not have now? the know-how. I do not accept that as a logical and valid argument. I mention Mr. HOUSTON: I have never run for the railway wagons that are used to trans­ cover in my life. I have always said, and port our coal. They were built in Japan. so have my predecessors, that we welcome How much work did that create on the overseas capital. "Hansard" will show John local scene? Surely no-one will argue Duggan's attitude; before that, Les Wood's; that we are not capable of building those before that Vince Gair's; Ned Hanlon's, and wagons. What about the pipes used in Forgan Smith's. Hon. members can go the pipeline to carry oil from Roma to back to all Labour leaders and see that our Brisbane? Surely it cannot be said that attitude has always been to welcome over­ those pipes could not have been manu­ seas capital. Full stop there! factured in Australia. I have looked at But there is a great difference between our the draglines thllt are in use at Blackwater attitude to overseas capital and the Govern­ and Moura. I do not believe that the ment's. We welcome overseas capital when engineering and electrical skills of our trades­ it is prepared to assist this nation to develop men were incapable of constructing them. and to put back into the nation some of what However, even those draglines were imported. it gets out of it. Some of the companies Mr. Lickiss: You would be joking on have done this. I suppose one of the worst examples of companies that take money out that one, wouldn't you? of this country is General Motors-Holden. Mr. HOUSTON: Not at all. Australian And who assisted it to get on its feet? Who assisted Mt. Isa, Mary Kathleen, the meat­ tradesmen can build power-houses. works and many others? I could name Mr. Lickiss: What would be the cost of plenty of them; so let us make it very clear that? that the Labour Party welcomes overseas capital provided it is not used here simply Mr. HOUSTON: Now we get down to to exploit us. I do not believe that over­ facts! Is the Government going to work seas capitalists themselves come with any on the basis that it is all right to import intention of simply exploiting, but they do something as long as it can be imported try to get as good a bargain as they can. more cheaply than it could be manufactured The Treasurer himself quite correctly said in Australia? Is it going to give an that there seems to be an attitude here open go to Japan, Hong Kong and China? against overseas capital, but that is only It is going to embark on a policy of partly true. It is not correct that we are importing something because it can be opposed to overseas capital, as I said before obtained cheaper overseas? There would but it is correct that there is opposition t~ not be many commodities that are used the Government's attitude. The Treasurer in Australia that cannot be made cheaper believes that he should have overseas com­ in another country. panies here at any cost. In fact, these Mr. Lickiss: Have you ever heard of companies have struck a hard bargain with economics? the State Government and the Government has turned in a very weak-kneed attitude in Mr. HOUSTON: I have heard a lot of its dealings with them. The Government has economics. But we do not fill bellies with a reason. It sees the companies as a means economics, and the pensioner does not get of circulating propaganda. Every day we his food from economics. The Govern­ see the Government's attitude that we are ment applies economics only when it suits Appropriation Bill (No. 2) (26 NOVEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1829 its mates. Why did the Australian Govern­ Mr. HOUSTON: That is all that the ment institute tariffs on the importation of Government is getting in royalty. The Japanese cars? Was it not because the Minister need not tell me how much the Japanese were dumping cars on the Aus­ Government is getting from railway freights. tralian market and interfering with our Is that important? work-force and the sale of Australian-made vehicles? Mr. Tooth: My word it is. Mr. Lickiss: You were talking about two Mr. HOUSTON: Does the Minister know draglines. how much profit we are making out of the railways in freights? Mr. HOUSTON: I am saying that they could have been manufactured with the Mr. Chalk: Do you? skills of the Australian workers, and that Mr. HOUSTON: No, because the if Australian workers can construct power­ Treasurer refuses to tell us. houses they should be able to build some­ think like a dragline. After all, draglines Mr. Chalk: Well, what are you talking consist of steel structures and electric about? motors. What else do they consist of? Mr. HOUSTON: The Treasurer refuses Australian engineers and tradesmen are as to tell us because it is nothing to boast good as those in other parts of the world. about. I respect the Treasurer in various Mr. Tucker: They built ships during the fields, and I will say that if he gets an war. opportunity to boast for the Government­ ! have no argument against that-he will do Mr. HOUSTON: Otf course they did. All so. He is not telling us what the profit is that the Government is interested in is only because he knows it is not sufficiently getting a company here and letting it impose high to boast about. I deliberately asked any terms that it wishes. The Treasurer a question about how much coal was can laugh-- exported but even that is something that must be hidden away. The Treasurer will Mr. Tooth: Give the Treasurer a go. regret the day that he refused to make public information which, I believe, the public is Mr. HOUSTON: He has had as good a entitled to, because no-one likes to feel that go as anybody in this State could have. He he is not being told the whole story. So has had quite a lot of money to play with. far as I am concerned, there is much more As I say, I do not think he has spent it to be said about coal, and coal contracts, wisely. But he has had an added advantage between us and Japan. As to secret arrange­ in holding the position of Premier of the ments the Treasurer can say that they are State for a short time. That is quite a privat~ arrangements between the Commis­ prestige position, as we know. At the present sioner for Railways and the company, but time, he is again acting as Premier. that is a lot of nonsense because public The Treasurer also said that we oppose the money is involved. If it is good enough for export of coal. That, again, is untrue. The the Minister for Mines to go up to Isis and Labour Party has never opposed the export boast about millions of dollars, and if it is of coal from Australia or Queensland. We good enough for the Minister for Health to fostered the export of coal from Blair Athol know how much is involved, it is good hoping to get markets. enough for those in Opposition in Parlia­ ment to know how much is involved. Mr. Hanlon: The Federal Liberal Govern­ ment was subsidising Indian coal when we Mr. Tooth interjected. were trying to sell it to Melbourne. Mr. HOUSTON: The Minister is in the Mr. HOUSTON: That is right. dark? He is in the dark, and he has been in the dark for years, but Hadyn Sargent will We object strongly to the 5c a ton royalty. get him out of the darkness and put him back know the Treasurer can say, "You have into the teaching profession. said that a dozen times", but I will continue to say it because, to me, that is the factor So much for our attitude to investment, that makes the difference. but let me be precise about it: firstly, we are not opposed to overseas investment but we Mr. Tooth: Don't you think we are getting are opposed to investment when it is all one anything out of it? way. We are opposed to the Government's weak knee'd attitude of allowing things to Mr. HOUSTON: We are getting too little be put over it. Secondly, on the export of from our coal-far too little! Every time I coal, provided we have the resources, we hear the Minister, or another Minister, talk are quite happy about that, too; but we about lack of money, I think of all the demand a fair return for our natural money that could be available from our resources. natural resources for which we are not getting a fair deal. As I have said, I think Mr. Chalk: You want a bigger royalty? we got only $171,000 last year in royalty from coal. Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, we do want a bigger royalty. Let there be no doubt about that. Mr. Tooth: Is that all we are getting? I, and my predecessors, have said on 1830 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) numerous occasions, that we think that a Mr. Porter: Insufficient in what way? Do royalty of Se a ton on coal-the equivalent you suggest that because somebody wants of an apple or an orange, to put it in such a new refrigerator or a second motor-car terms-is far too little. a woman is forced to go to work? Mr. Chalk: Do you favour the other Mr. HOUSTON: This is the attitude. This fellow building the railway line? is Liberal Party thinking. Because a worker has a refrigerator, Liberal Party members say Mr. HOUSTON: The Treasurer should it is too good for him. This is their attitude. not get really childish. I pay him the compli­ According to them, it is too good for him, ment of understanding English. I know that far too good. We have heard their attitude his officers have read the speeches that I and on this. I say that every family who lives other members of the Opposition have made, in this State is entitled to its own home, and I am sure that they have said to him, amenities that we normally consider essential, "Look, he is not in favour of private such as vacuum cleaners and the like, and railways". I hope I have made that very it is entitled to a means of preserving food, clear. The Treasurer knows that and has which is a refrigerator. quoted me as saying that on several A Government Member interjected. occasions. Mr. HOUSTON: I was thinking of a hole Mr. Tooth: It sounds as if you approve in somebody's head when I referred to of the policy. vacuum cleaners. Mr. HOUSTON: Approve of what? These people are entitled to these amenities as a right, not as a luxury. As for a motor­ Mr. Chalk: Private people building a rail­ car, the way the Government is building way line. their houses and sending them out to Wood­ ridge and Lawnton and other places miles Mr. HOUSTON: That was not Govern­ away from public transport-- ment policy. Government policy was Mr. Porter: Who is sending them? privately owned railway lines. Of course it was. That is the Government's policy, and Mr. HOUSTON: The Government, it only switched when it knew that the deliberately. The Government is sending company would not meet its obligations. So them out there. Government members should not start telling Mr. E. G. W. Wood interjected. me about Government policy because it was made clear in the Bill introduced into the Mr. HOUSTON: What public transport? House. The Treasurer said that Ernie Evans How does anyone get to Redland Bay at put it in and that the Minister for Health night-time. They have to walk. supported him, and the Treasurer, of course, Mr. E. G. W. Wood: We have one of the was against it at that point of time. best train services in the suburbs. Mr. Hanlon: There was provision in the Mr. HOUSTON: To Cleveland? That existing Act for a privately owned railway shows how long it is since the hon. member but the Government didn't go ahead with has been in his electorate because there is it. no train service to Cleveland and the hon. member should know this. Mr. HOUSTON: That is very true. Mr. Miller interjected. Let me return to the question of rising Mr. HOUSTON: I know exactly what I costs. To me this is one of the important am saying. The hon. member for Logan said features. The Government boasts of great there is a train service to all parts of his development and of companies coming here, electorate and there is no train service to yet we find that the average person is finding Cleveland. I asked him-- it more difficult to live and to clothe and educate his children. Rising costs have Mr. E. G. W. WOOD: I rise to a point brought about an economic situation that of order. is not in the interests of this State or nation. Through economic circumstances, married Mr. SPEAKER: Order! women with young children are forced to Mr. HOUSTON: I asked the hon. member go to work. I agree with the principle--it is how people living in Cleveland, Raby Bay our principle-that anyone who wants to and Redland Bay get there at night-time. work should have the right to work, but The Government saw fit to close the railway there is a difference between having the line. I say that there is an absolute necessity right to work and going to work merely today-- because they feel they would like to go to work as they have little else to do, and Mr. Porter: Are all the people living there women with young children being forced to unfortunate people who have been chased go to work because their husbands' salaries down there by the Government? No-one is are not sufficient to maintain their homes living there by choice. and educate their children. This is what the Mr. E. G. W. Wood: There is a bus ser· Government's policy has brought about. vice every night. Appropriation BilllNo. 2) [26 NovEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1831

Mr. HOUSTON: What time of night? Let us look at another attitude of the Government with regard to rising costs. Mr. E. G. W. Wood: You know that very People are being forced into the consistent well. use of hire-purchase, and in some cases unfor­ Mr. Newton: You thumb a lift. tunately they over-reach themselves. Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, you thumb a lift. Mr. Chlnchen: Whose fault is that? It will What time of night do the buses run? be the Government's, too. Mr. HOUSTON: That is brought about Mr. E. G. ''"· Wood: At 6 o'clock and ll o'clock. because people do not have sufficient direct income to buv the things to which they Mr. HOUSTON: For mast people today a believe they a;.e entitled in this comm1mity motor-car is needed not as a luxury but a and in this day. They buy things on hire­ necessity. So far as "back to Woodridge" is purchase only because they do not have cash concerned, if the Housing Commission had available for them. They go to hire-pur~hase not decided to build homes in outlying areas companies because they have not the deposits the people would not have gone there to required on articles, and because the Gov :.rn­ Jive. The people want homes, and there is ment has not taken the necessary legi·slarive a desperate need for rental accommodation. action to meet this situation, many people If there is one thing for which the Govern­ are being forced away from hire-purchase ment will alv. ays stand condemned. it i·s its companies and into the hands of money­ failure to provide the number of homes lenders. One thing that the Government's required by the people. actions and attitudes and lack of legislation Mr. Porter: Are you attacking the Arbitra­ are doing is forcing people into the hands of tion Court now? Are you suggesting that moneylenders and money sharks. the basic wage is inadequate? Mr. Cbinchen: Tommy rot! Mr. HOUSTON: Of course it is inade­ Mr. HOUSTON: The hon. member may quate. If the hon. member wants me to say "Tommy rot". It is all right for hon. say that I disagree with the Arbitration members who represent silver-tail electorates. Court in the lowness of its awards, yes, I do They may not come in contact with the disagree with it. Wages are far too low. people who-- Mr. Porter: Now tell us the next thing. Mr. Porter: What about giving us some facts? Mr. HOUSTON: What is that? Mr. HOUSTON: I will give the hon. Mr. Porter: What is the percentage of member some facts-19.752 per cent. for a wage earners earning the basic wage only? loan. Mr. HOUSTON: For the hon. member's Mr. Porter: You said that many people benefit, perhaps I can go back and start all were forced to go to money-lenders. over again. I began by saying that there is a need for married women with children Mr. HOUSTON: That is correct. to go to work because of the paltriness of the purchasing power of the wages received Mr. Porter: Give us some facts. What is by their husbands. If the hon. member the proportion of the community? believes that every woman who goes to work Mr. HOUSTON: It does not matter goes because of a love of working for an whether it is only one person. employer and because she would rather be at work than at home looking after her Mr. Chinchen: You want us to legislate young children, I would be very surprised. for one person? Mr. Lickiss: It could be that there are Mr. HOUSTON: The hon. member may job opportunities available to them. not consider that one person is of very much concern, but the worry of one person Mr. HOUSTON: I do not deny that there is of great personal concern to me. It needs are job opportunities. only one person in my electorate to come Mr. Chinchen: They did not have those to me with a problem and I am involved. opportunities in your day. Mr. Chinchen: So are we all. Mr. HOUSTON: What a lot of nonsense! Mr. HOUSTON: Apparently the hon. In fact, it is only a short time ago that member is not. Apparently he does not care people were heard saying that under a Labour two hoots whether or not people are being Government labour could not be obtained. fleeced right and left. Do hon. members Mr. Newton: When you were at the Ford think it is right and just that advertisements Motor Company, you had a gang coming, a should appear saying, "We will lend you gang going, and a gang working. money to buy a motor-car or a refrigerator. We will take over your debts. It is a Mr. HOUSTON: The only sensible thing personal loan, with or without security."? that the Ford Motor Company did at that These are the advertisements that the time was to get rid of the hon. member. Government allows to appear. 1832 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2)

Mr. Murray: Would you stop them? They and if it was not for rising costs and the appear in the newspapers in Tasmania. decrease in the purchasing power of wages-- Mr. HOUSTON: People say, "The Govern­ Mr. Cbinchen: Wages have risen faster ment would not allow anything to be than costs. advertised that was not honest and above board." Mr. HOUSTON: Earlier the hon. member was criticising the Industrial Commission. iVIr. Porter: That is a new one. The Is he now trying to say that the Commis­ Government is responsible for all advertis­ sion has been over-generous? Never have I ing, is it? found that an industrial tribunal has been over-generous in its judgments. Mr. HOUSTON: I say that it is respon­ sible for untruthful advertising. One of the Mr. R. Jones: The Commission froze important factors when people want to wages for 12 months. borrow money is the rate of interest that Mr. HOUSTON: I am pleased that the hon. they are to be charged. They find that member for Cairns mentioned that subject. information in the small print after the Was it not this time three years ago that the documents have been delivered to them. court said, "We will not do anything about People are human beings, and in good faith the basic wage"? Was it not just before the they sign on the dotted line and then find election of 1966 that by some miraculous that the interest rate is, as I said earlier, means the court decided that it would have 19.752 per cent. another look at the basic wage and allow a dollar or two increase? Was it not just Mr. Chlncben: Who charges that? three years ago that there were campaigns by the unions about rising prices? Is that not Mr. HOUSTON: More than one company important? I say the Government has a in this State, and I shall name them at the responsibility to keep prices down. appropriate time. At 11 p.m., Mr. Chlnchen: What about naming them now? Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Under the pro­ visions of Standing Order No. 307, the sitting Mr. HOUSTON: One of the Ministers is will be extended to enable the Treasurer to very kindly looking into the position in one speak in reply. case, and I do not want in any way to pre­ Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer­ judice that investigation. Treasurer) (11.1 p.m.), in reply: This is an Mr. iVIurray: You said that we are not Appropriation Bill dealing with the finances interested in these matters; now you say that of the State, a Bill which I believe is of quite a Minister is looking into one case. some importance to the people of Queens­ land as a whole. Because of that, I chose to Mr. HOUSTON: I said that a Minister is, follow a fairly well-prepared script to deal following my representations. Hon. members with three points which I believe have a bear­ opposite generally are not. ing on the loan raising of finance in this State and the Commonwealth, a matter which Mr. Porter: We are concerned about this. referred to overseas capital and the general prosperity of Queensland as I see it at the Mr. HOUSTON: No, hon. members present time. opposite are not. They might be concerned now, but they were not concerned before. I devoted the whole of my introductory I will tell the hon. member the name of remarks to that subject. I propose, because the company-eventually. (Government I realise that there are people in Queensland, laughter.) fhe Treasurer does not know if not the Opposition, who are interested in what is on the Business Paper-perhaps the the finances of this State, to devote a few Premier has not told him-but a Bill rela­ moments now to replying fairly carefully to tive to financial matters will be introduced a matter that was raised in this State yester­ later. It will give me an opportunity, pro­ day and which has a bearing on the citizens vided the Chairman of Committees does not of Queensland. When I have disposed of that object, to refer to interest and to give the point, I hope I will have a few moments to name of the company concerned. From my reply to the greatest lot of twaddle that I point of view, a company of that type is not have ever heard from the mouth of the welcome in this State. Leader of the Opposition. Honourable Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Davies: How easy it is to say that. Mr. CHALK: After listening to him, it is Mr. HOUSTON: The Government allows easy to say. I want to reply firstly to a companies such as that to charge 20 per matter that was raised yesterday afternoon, cent. interest. It is the Government's legis­ when a report was released by the Queens­ lation that allows them to do it, and at land Housing Industry Association dealing present they are not breaking the law. I with an economic research by that depart­ suggest that their practice is questionable. ment, which report was given considerable They are preying on the needs of the people, publicity today. Appropriation Bill {No. 2) [26 NovEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1833

I want to say that I appreciate the part possible to obtain for all States the number being played by housing societies in the fin­ of homes built by Government authorities ancing of homes in this State. I feel how­ and by private authorities, but figures are ever, that some of the statements in that published for the ownership of homes that report are misleading, and consequently I are completed during a year. If we use take the first opportunity available to me to these figures, which are used also in the correct them. Possibly the difficulty is caused Housing Industry Association's report, we by the report being prepared by a Melbourne find that the percentages of Government­ economist who is not fully familiar with the owned houses completed during 1966-67 conditions in this State. were as follows:- The report quotes the Queensland alloca­ Per cent. tion under !'he Commonwealth-States Housing Queensland 9.7 Agreement at just about half of the Australian Victoria 10.8 average. It goes on to say- New South Wales 12.7 "It nevertheless appears that the priority Western Australia 16.1 for housing in this regard in Queensland is Tasmania 22.3 much lower than in other States." South Australia 28.6 I draw the attention of this House and of the people of Queensland to the fact that in this In view of these figures, I can see no State the funds received from the Common­ virtue in cutting down further vhe activities wealth-State Housing Agreement are supple­ of the Queensland Housing Commission and mented not only by funds available under the relegating it to the role of providing cheap agreement with the Commonwealth Savings land. Bank but also by the allocation of the Queens­ The Housing Industry Association report land Housing Commission from State funds also makes some general recommendations and debenture allocations. upon which I feel that I should comment. !he ~est of whether sufficient priority is One is that a greater amount of available bemg g1ven to housing in Queensland is the housing finance should be directed to new over-all rate of building 'and not the effort homes and a lesser amount to established iJ:! one_ limited field. Indeed, the figures homes. g1ven m the Housing Industry Association report are adequate proof that sufficient While the desire of the building societies priority is being given to housing in Queens­ to encourage new construction is under­ land. The report gives figures covering a ID­ standable, it must be realised that to con­ year period. If hon. members will take time centrate on new homes while an increasing to read the report they will note that the and excessive number of estabHshed homes percentage of Queensland completions of are standing unoccupied would constitute dwellings to those for Australia as a whole economic waste. I believe that the need was higher in 1966-67 and 1967-68 than to provide finance for the purchase of in any other year during that 10-year period. established homes has an important place In fact, in 1966-67 our percentage of in the over-all housing finance ·structure. The completions_ was higher than our percentage important thing is to retain a balance of Austraha's population. This indicates between finance for established homes and that housing in Queensland is running at a that for new homes. very satisfactory level, and does not support Let me look at another recommendation, the allegation that only a low priority is which seeks to reduce the percentage of given to housing in this State. funds that savings banks must hold in The report by the Housing Industry Government securities. Apparently the aim Association is critical of the Queensland is to increase the amount available in other Housing Commission in several respects. It directions, including housing. Here again, quotes a profit of $291,688 made by the I feel that there is no reason to vary Housing Commission in 1967-68. The this percentage unless there is clear evidence economist author ignores the fact that no-one that the rate of dwelling construction is except home-builders benefits from profits. insufficient to meet requirements. I have This arises from the fact that profits are already dealt with the rate of housing con­ reinvested in the provision of further housing. struction, and I need only make the further In any case, the profits of the Housing comment that funds lent by savings banks Commission represent a very modest per­ to Governments and semi-governmental centage when it is considered that as at bodies are used largely to provide the 30 June, 1968, the assets of the Commission various services required in a mode,rn com­ totalled $184,000,000. munity. It is important for Governments and semi-governmental bodies to have suf­ The report also states that a larger pro­ ficient money to provide these services to portion of funds should be directed to the homes as they are constructed, and also building societies and a lesser proportion to provide the services necessary to allow to the Queensland Housing Commission. industry to function and thus create employ­ Let us look at the over-a]] situation. I ment for the occupants. Again it is a point out that the proportion of new homes matter of providing a balance between the in Government ownership in Queensland is requirements of housing and those of other lower than in any other State. It is not sections of the community. 1834 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2)

Another recommendation is that private was not a band of happy fellows. He denied investment in housing be encouraged and aid to certain denominational schools. He fostered, particularly in Queensland, through talked about the price structure. He talked the thriving permanent building societies. I about overseas capital. He criticised all the do not know why the recommendation used activities of industries that have come in and the words "particulatly in Queensland", built up this State. since the level of private ownership of houses in this State is already high. At Mr. Houston: No, he didn't. the last census, the percentage of occupied Mr. CHALK: Well, what was he talking private dwellings that were occupied either about if he was not talking about that? by the owner or by the person purchasing He talked about coal wagons coming in by instalments was 71.05 per cent. in from Japan. He talked about pipelines. He Queensland, or a little higher than the talked about draglines. figure of 70.81 per cent. for Australia as a whole, so why single out Queensland Let us examine these things. First of all, for this type of criticism? it is true that the Government did receive As I say, I nevm· object to constructive a jolt in the Isis by-election. That is not criticism, but in the field of housing, where denied. There were problems associated with the Government is proud of its record that by-election. All I say to the Leader of the of substantial increases in the rates at Opposition is that when we go to the people which new dwellings are being constructed next year he will have an opportunity to in this State, I feel that statements that could place before them the policy that he has be misleading should be corrected. It is placed before this House tonight. He will a pity, of course, that the report was not have an opportunity to see what the people prepared by a Queensland economist, of Queensland think about some of the tripe because I believe that if that had been and twaddle that he has spoken here this done, not only would valuable material evening. have been available but the author would Let us look at this talk about the public not have been caught in the trap in which image. What on earth that has to do with this particular Melbourne economist found the finances of this State, I do not know. himself. As this House realises, housing But it is true. That is all that the Leader societies are only one of the groups through of the Opposition can think of. which finance for housing becomes avail­ able. I concede that they have an important Having got away from Isis and the public part to play in the over-all picture and image, the hon. member immediately got I applaud the societies for the very good onto the liquor question. There was ample work they are doing in Queensland, but, opportunity for him to discuss this matter as I have already indicated, they are not previously. alone in the picture that has been painted. Mr. Houston: I can pick my own time. I hope that my remarks will put the situation in better perspective by showing Mr. CHALK: The Leader of the Opposi­ that private ownership and private initiative tion can pick his own ground; I do not deny are strong in this State, and that there him the right to talk about liquor. But is no need to reduce the activities of the when an important issue comes before this Queensland Housing Commission. The vari­ House and when there is an opportunity for ous sectors through which finance becomes him to discuss the finances of Queensland, available for housing are all combining in he should do so. After all, he has stomped this State to produce a final level of home around the country criticising the finances construction that is far in excess of that of this State, but when he comes into this achieved some years ago, and that, in my Chamber he says not one word about them. opinion, appears to be meeting our current Mr. Houston: Rubbish! requirements. I feel that I have dealt with the four Mr. CHALK: The hon. member can say points I wanted to touch upon during this "Rubbish" if he likes. He can look at his debate. But as there is a certain amount of "Hansard" proofs and see if he mentioned time still available to me, far be it from me one matter directly concerned with the to miss the opportunity to reply to what I finances of Queensland. have described as the greatest twaddle I Mr. Houston: What do you think I have have every heard from a Leader of the been doing for the past three weeks? Opposition. I make no apology for saying that. After all, this is a Bill dealing with Mr CHALK: What has he been talking the finances of this State. It is a Bill that about? I do not know what he has been is important to every Queenslander. talking about, nor do the people of Queens­ What did the Leader of the Opposition land. do? What did he talk about? First of all, Having got over these issues, he proceeded he talked about some glowing picture. He to get on his hobby-horse. I want to nail dealt with the Isis by-election. He talked him on this point. Ever since the Budget was about the Liquor Bill. He talked about a introduced there has been from members of public image. He talked about education. the Opposition this story of giving aid to He criticised the Government. He said it certain denominational schools. What sort Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [26 NOVEMBER] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1835 of body would the hon. member set up to Mr. CHALK: It has a lot to do with it. decide between this school and that school, Innocence is bliss in this particular issue. and which would get some funds and which Here is a letter, written and distributed to would not? He will have an opportunity to members of the Queensland Temperance League, asking its members to write a letter explain fully to the people of Queensland, of thanks to those members of Parliament during the next election campaign, where he who subscribed to that which the League and his party stand on this issue. Not only supports. I have also a list of those to from those attending denominational schools, whom the letter was sent. I shall not quote but also from those responsible for them, them all. have come letters of commendation of the Mr. Houston: What does that prove? Government for the part it has played. The Opposition will deny this. Mr. CHALK: It proves that the utterances of the Leader of the Opposition here tonight Mr. Newton: Rubbish! are a matter of having "two bob each way". Mr. CHALK: The hon. member's Leader Otherwise, he is not sincere when he writes said it. He said that they would cut out to organisations. certain schools. Mr. Houston: Nonsense! Mr. Houston: I never said that. Mr. CHALK: The hon. member cannot back this horse both ways. Mr. CHALK: Yes, you did. The Leader Mr. Houston: That's nonsense. What are of the Opposition can wriggle and squeal as you talking about? much as he likes, but he said that there were certain schools that were not entitled Mr•. CHALK: I have a copy of the letter. to assistance. Mr. Houston: You haven't got a copy of Mr. Houston: Not as much as some others. my letter. Mr. CHALK: The Leader of the Mr. CHALK: No, but I have the hon. Opposition was prepared to deny them this member's name on this list. right. He will have a chance at the Mr. Houston: What has that to do with appropriate time to say to the people in it? certain electorates, "We would not give you so much". The hon. member will not do Mr. CHALK: Does the hon. member think that. He will do what he has done on that they simply put his name on the list? the liquor question. The Leader of the Mr. Houston: I once saw "G. Chalk" on a Opposition tonight got up in this Chamber list of prisoners. Was that you? and talked about the 40-mile limit. Mr. Houston: I never mentioned it. Mr. CHALK: On a list of prisoners? Mr. Houston: Yes, in Tasmania. Was that Mr. CHALK: The hon. member talked you? about sectional legislation. Mr. Houston: That is right. Mr. CHALK: Does the hon. member deny that he is J. Houston, Esquire, Bulimba? Mr. CHALK: "Wipe it out", was his cry. Mr. Houston: That is right. What sort of a letter did he write to the Queensland Temperance League? Perhaps he Mr. CHALK: It was someone else. I doesn't remember? accept the hon. member's assurance that it was not he. Mr. Houston: It is your responsibility. Let us look at some of the things that M1•. CHALK: It is good that the Leader the hon. member said about dealings with of the Opposition apparently has not a overseas capital. First of all, he criticised memory. It is most interesting that a the Government's attraction of overseas circular sent out by the Temperance League, capital, and he indicated that he will not have a bar of the type of activity with which which starts, "Dear Member" and is signed the Government is associated in the develop­ by the general secretary, reads- ment of the mining industry with foreign "It was most important that you write capital. I said earlier that we would never to your local member before. It is even have developed these mines had it not been more important that you write now for the amount of overseas capital available expressing your appreciation to him for to us. The hon. member then criticised the what he has done." fact that 200 coal wagons were made in I have a list of the names of those to whom Japan. Is it not true that we called tenders the letter was sent, and included in that list for them? Is it not true that the best delivery is a man named J. W. Houston, Esquire, time that we could get was 11 months? Bulimba. Does the hon. member now deny Is it not equally true that to get the amount that he was opposed to the 40-mile limit? of coal required out of this country we had to start shifting it within five months? Js Mr. Ho11ston: What has that got to do it not equally true that the Japanese were with it? able to land these wagons in Queensland 1836 Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill (No. 2) and the Commonwealth Government, said tonight. I am prepared to call "divide" because of the national wealth that they and see what he will do on the question would help to produce, allowed them to of the employment of maJCried women within come in and be in operation for six months the Public Service. The hon. member has during which no wagons would have been said that a woman's place is in the home, in use if they had been built in Australia? with her vacuum cleaner and all the other Is that not good economics, and was that not things that are part of her domestic life. a sound reason for bringing them in? I point out to him that many women are now playing a part in the life of the Let me turn now to the pipeline. The community equal to that played by men. Leader of the Opposition was critical of the After all, a woman is a member of this construction of the pipeline. What was the State House of Parliament. Does the hon. situation? Orders for pipes were placed in gentleman suggest that, before the death Australia, through my own efforts. Tele­ of her husband, she should have been at grams were sent to manufacturers in Sydney home with her vacuum cleaner? That is indicating that if they could not supply the the sort of argument that he has put up pipes it would be necessary either to close in this Chamber. I say to the hon. member the job down or bring pipes in from overseas. that there is a place in the community In the interests of Queensland workers and for women who desire to work and that, the people. of Queensland, thank goodness as far as the Government is concerned, those pipes were available to keep the men they will be given the opportunity to work. engaged on the construction of the pipeline actively employed. Above all, thank good­ The hon. member for Salisbury made an ness the pipes are available so that it will interjection relative to there being no rail­ be possible to complete the job on time and way to Inala. That is true. But which feed the fertiliser industry and the other Government designed Inala? Which Gov­ associated industries with the gas that they ernment should have taken into considera­ need. In the face of that, the Leader of the tion the provision of a railway line when Opposition is critical of the importation of the construction of Inala was first begun? something that this State could not produce Mr. Sherrington: There should be a line sufficiently quickly for its requirements. there. Let me then consider the question of the Mr. CHALK: The hon. member cannot dragline. Here, hon. members heard from have it both ways. A former Labour the Leader of the Opposition the greatest Government did not see fit to design a statement of all time. He said, "Build the railway or to provide the amenities that dragline in Queensland". Of course it could should have been provided at the time. Those be built here, if we could wait long enough are matters that have to be taken into and could get all the designs and the draw­ consideration. After all, this Government ings necessary to build it. Having got all cannot clean up all the mistakes made by those things, what would the position be? It former Labour Governments, even though would be possible to build a new motor-car it is trying to clean up many of them. here, too. But it would be necessary first to Let us look at the last point that the hon. design it and, having designed it, there would member raised, concerning money-lenders. then be the cost of production. What would It is true that here are some people in our the dragline have cost if it had been manu­ community who are charging high rates of factured in Australia? What would have been interest, but we are looking at this. We are the time factor in its de livery? Possibly it prepared to bring down legislation to prevent would have been years and years; but even if it had been only 18 months, what was this very thing. It is not something that the output of that great dragline in those sprung up yesterday; it has been with us year in and year out, and there will always 18 months. be someone in the community who can be I said earlier that I had heard tonight the lulled into a false sense of security. But greatest lot of twaddle that I have ever I believe that we will be able to grapple heard. When we analyse what has been with this in due course. said by the Leader of the Opposition, the I shall conclude my remarks by putting man who seeks to be the future Premier of one more record in "Hansard", because I this State, we see what a lot of twaddle it is. believe that the policy of this Government In my 21 years in this Chamber I have in regard both to its educational activities never before seen such a display. and to those things that the hon. member Mr. Tucker: He is not frustrated, as you criticised demands it. After all, he criticised are. our policies on education, land valuation and civil defence. In other words, he is the Mr. CHALK: I will deal with the hon. greatest "knocker" or all times. He knows member for Townsville North in due course. the basis on which civil defence activities He is the most frustrated hen that I have were set up. He knows also that the Minister ever met. for Lands has set up a Rural Fires Board. He I come now to the question of the knows that during the height of the recent employment of married women. The hon. fires there were men associated with the member will have an opportunity before Government as well as volunteers who the House rises to endorse what he has played their part in trying to prevent fire Appropriation Bill (No. 2) [27 NovEMBER] Questions 1837 risks in this State. But we hear not one word of thanks from the hon. member. We hear only criticism because the Govern­ ment did not have some civil defence activity. This Government lent, to the greatest extent it possibly could, the services of its employees and those associated with rural fire brigades to do all that was possible to prevent the spread of fire, and we will extend it as far as possible according to the finance available to us. Not a word of praise or thanks did we hear. This is an indication of the depth to which the Labour Party is prepared to sink in this Chamber in kicking those who are prepared to do everything possible to protect the citizens of this State. All I can say is that I hope those in the community who gave up their nights to fight bush fires will remember the "knockerism" of the Leader of the Opposition. I now want to read a letter that was handed to me by the hon. member for Yeronga that I believe typifies the appreciation of the people of Queensland for what this Govern­ ment has done for education. This letter, written on behalf of a parents and citizens' Association, refers to the extra provision for education in the recent Budget. It reads- "At our recent Parents and Citizens' meeting appreciative reference was made to the extra provision for education in the recent budget. To add to our satisfaction, our Head Teacher was able to display an array of recently arrived items of equip­ ment including, inter alia, an expensive tape recorder and microscope. "I am instructed to convey to the Gov­ ernment, through you, the appreciation of the Parents and Citizens'. As was mentioned in our meeting, when this Gov­ ernment came into office, Education held the lowest place in Cabinet rank. In a few short years, gratifying improvements have been made and, we assume, the recent increase in budget allotment is an earnest of further progress in this vital field." I am prepared to leave it to the people of Queensland to read the "Hansard" report of this debate. I hope they do. If they do, then I say it will not be a question of rejoicing over Isis after the next election but of licking the wounds. Members of the Opposition who have stood up in this Chamber tonight and condemned the Government will not then be here to condemn it. Motion (Mr. Chalk) agreed to. COMMITTEE (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair) Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, schedule and preamble, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. THIRD READING Bill, on motion of Mr. Chalk, read a third time. The House adjourned at 11.38 p.m.