Legislative Assembly 9417 8 September 1994

THURSDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER 1994 Youth Training Centre instigated by the National Party Government, the member attacked the State Archivist. The member asked— "Why would the State Archivist work so Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) uncharacteristically fast to destroy a volume read prayers and took the chair at 10 a.m. of material on a matter which was 'no longer required or pertinent'?" PETITIONS He also said— The Clerk announced the receipt of the "Public servants are not usually noted following petitions— for such fast replies, especially on such serious matters as we have before us now, particularly when there appears to be a Teachers denial of justice." From Mr Mitchell (25 signatories) praying And he capped all this with the statement— that the Parliament of Queensland will ensure that teachers are not suspended without pay "The question that must be answered prior to a court conviction or finding of fault by in relation to the State Archivist is: were the disciplinary procedures; that there is a prompt State Archivist and her assistant puppets for investigation of complaints made against the Government?" teachers; that teachers are immediately informed These are gross personal insults to public of allegations made against them; that action is servants, who are not able to come here to taken to support teachers with a fair and effective defend themselves. The first smear suggests disciplinary structure in the schools; and that that the Archivist worked unusually quickly for action is taken to penalise individuals who make some sort of ulterior motive. She tells me that, of frivolous or malicious complaints against course, it is not unusual for the State Archivist to teachers. respond to a request for urgent advice from a Government agency. The second smear is that Royal Commission into Aboriginal the archivist and other public servants work Deaths in Custody slowly and are slow to send replies, especially on serious matters. The third smear is that the State From Ms Warner (431 signatories) praying Archivist and her assistant are puppets. that the Parliament of Queensland will ensure Dictionary definitions of "puppet" in this context that all 339 recommendations of the royal include: "person who is a mere tool" and "a commission into black deaths in custody be person who appears independent but is implemented and ratified as law. controlled by another". Petitions received. The Office of State Archivist has the legislative authority to authorise or prohibit the PAPER destruction of records. I point out that, contrary to the member's allegation, the Archivist did not The following paper was laid on the table— destroy the records. Any contact with the State Minister for Justice and AttorneyÐGeneral and Archivist has been in accordance with the Minister for the Arts (Mr Wells)— Libraries and Archives Act. I have every Electoral Commission of Queensland— confidence in the Archivist, who, incidentally, Mirani By-Election 1994 Statistical was not a Goss Government appointment, and Returns. who, in common with the vast majority of public servants, has always upheld the highest standards of integrity and efficiency. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT I suggest that the member for Clayfield is State Archivist; Shredding of Heiner judging this Government by what he knows of Documents the Government of his coalition partners. On 30 Hon. G. R. MILLINER (Ferny Grove— April 1992, he said in this place— Minister for Administrative Services) (10.03 a.m.), "In 1989 there was a public perception by leave: On Tuesday in this place the member of corruption with the power structure of the for Clayfield proved that the Liberals and the State. Deep suspicion shrouded our Nationals were at least united on one institutions and our public and administrative policy—that of smear. In trying to find some mud processes. It was time for a rethink of our that would stick in the long list of allegations systems." about the abortive inquiry into the John Oxley 8 September 1994 9418 Legislative Assembly

There has, of course, been a complete for a massive increase in spending in the public rethink. The Goss Government has been aided hospital system. As the Treasurer correctly by the PSMC, EARC and the CJC in making sure pointed out last week, and as the Leader of the that Queensland now has the sort of Opposition has admitted in his question, there Government it needs, deserves and wants. was a shortfall of at least $1 billion in spending under the National Party Government. We have steadily increased that funding to the point at LEAVE TO MOVE MOTION WITHOUT which the health system is much better, but we NOTICE concede that there is a way to go. It will take Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South) some years to turn around the decay—— (10.06 a.m.): I move a motion of no confidence in Mr Horan: It's all happened in the last two the Minister of Health. years. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Mr W. K. GOSS: No. Mr Horan only member cannot do that. Does the honourable arrived in this place yesterday. member seek leave to move a motion without notice? Mr Littleproud interjected. Mr HORAN: Yes, I seek leave to move a Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for motion without notice. Western Downs! Question—That leave be granted—put; Mr Johnson interjected. and the House divided— Mr W. K. GOSS: I know that Mr Horan and AYES, 31—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, the interjecting member for Gregory are men on Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Grice, Healy, the move. I believe that it is very generous of the Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Leader of the Opposition to put Mr Horan in a McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, portfolio such as Health, which will give him a rails Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, run to where he wants to go. The facts of life are Veivers, Watson Tellers: Springborg, Laming that, if one wants to read the Budget—— NOES, 51—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, Mr Littleproud interjected. Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Budd, Campbell, Casey, Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Clark, Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, for Western Downs under Standing Order 123A. Edmond, Elder, Fenlon, Foley, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Mr W. K. GOSS: If one reads the Budget, Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, one sees that we have dramatically increased McGrady, Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Power, funding and spending on public health in a Purcell, Pyke, Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, general sense in terms of, very importantly, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, giving a substantial boost to the wages of Vaughan, Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: nurses, which the previous Government refused Pitt, Livingstone to do. They were the worst-paid nurses in the Resolved in the negative. country. We have increased their salaries dramatically and we have increased the number of nurses substantially—one thousand four QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE hundred—— Public Hospital System Mr Hayward: And 52. Mr BORBIDGE: I direct a question to the Mr W. K. GOSS: And 52. Before this year Premier. I refer to the disastrous state of the is out, we will tell members opposite again—not Queensland public health system as a result of that we expect them to remember. his Minister's chronic mismanagement of what the Treasurer claims is $1 billion in extra In addition to that, throughout the State spending, which has been underscored today there is very substantial capital spending on the by threatened industrial action by frustrated hospital system. One of the problems that we health professionals at the PA Hospital and identified in the hospital system was a deficiency protests by frustrated health workers at 30 other in capital expenditure. A substantial amount has hospitals throughout the State, and I ask: when been spent on operating theatres, improving the will the Premier accept responsibility for his quality of beds, new hospitals and new wings. Government's health crisis and intervene? That is occurring right along the coast and throughout Queensland, from Logan City to Mr W. K. GOSS: There is no need to Caboolture to Townsville and Nambour—you intervene in this matter because I, the Treasurer name it. The public hospital system that we and other relevant Ministers are continually inherited from the honourable member's working with the Health Minister in this area. Fairly predecessors was seriously deficient. I do not early in our Government, we identified the need blame the member personally for that, because Legislative Assembly 9419 8 September 1994 he has only been here since yesterday. place and do the dirty work of a small group of However, his predecessors really did the wrong private doctors. thing, and we are determined to redress that year Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am having great in, year out with record Health budgets and difficulty in hearing the Premier. record spending on capital works. Mr Borbidge: Are you saying that it is a I spoke before about the dramatic increase smear to ask a question? in nurses' salaries and nurse numbers. Furthermore, we are in the process of enterprise Mr SPEAKER: Order! I find that remark bargaining with the Nurses Union with a view to offensive and I ask the Leader of the Opposition again increasing the wages of nurses in this to withdraw the comment. State. It is the view of this Government, the Mr BORBIDGE: I withdraw. Health Minister and I that the nurses of this State Mr W. K. GOSS: In conclusion, the not only deserve the pay rise that the previous honourable members opposite may want to Government refused to give them, and which we come in here and champion the vested interests gave them a couple of years ago, but also that of a small group of wealthy doctors; we are going they deserve another pay rise. We are to look after the public and the people who determined to successfully conclude those work—— enterprise bargaining negotiations with the Nurses Union so that nurses will get a pay rise. Mr Johnson interjected. What we are finding—and what I think is Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member being found by many Governments around the for Gregory under Standing Order 123A. I issue a country—is that some unions are having some general warning. The level of interjection this difficulty in moving to the new enterprise morning is unacceptable to the Chair. I have now bargaining process, which they and the ACTU warned two members and I intend to take action support. But notwithstanding their difficulty in today. delivering in terms of their side of the process in Mr W. K. GOSS: We will look after the enterprise bargaining, we are confident that, with public, the public health and the people who goodwill, we will get there and we will deliver the work in the public health system. The proof is pay rise that they want and need. There are when you put money your money where your ongoing discussions with the Nurses Union to mouth is. The members opposite never did that. achieve that. This Government has put in the money and it is This is mixed in with, but is separate going to put in a lot more money. from—and should be regarded as separate from—other issues in the public hospital system. Mr G. Richardson The public hospital system needs more money spent on it. This Government will do that. The Mr BORBIDGE: In directing question to main reason that the public hospital system the Minister for Police, I refer to the needs more money spent on it is that, when one administration of the prostitution laws which has considers the procedures and the number of seen policewomen posing as prostitutes patients—— involved in the entrapment of clients, including a priest in Fortitude Valley. I also refer to sworn Mr Connor: It's all a conspiracy. statements alleging the involvement of a former Mr W. K. GOSS: Opposition members Federal Minister in a prostitution ring associated should stop their moaning and carping for a with an alleged major organised crime figure. I minute and consider the record under this Health ask: why has former Senator Graham Richardson Minister and his predecessor, Mr McElligott. been given preferential treatment and not been They should look at the numbers in terms of charged under Queensland law? Why is there patient throughput and procedures. We are one set of laws for Labor mates and another set delivering so much more in terms of procedures of rules for everyone else? and patient treatment than the previous Mr BRADDY: The Leader of the Government did. The increased efficiency and Opposition well knows, but chooses to ignore the dramatically improved performance of the because of his sleazy intentions in relation to this public hospital system are putting some strain on matter, that the administration of justice in the that system. That will require further funding. We Police Service in Queensland now—not under will deliver that further funding because the his Government—requires and has the entire Labor Party has a proud track record of separation of the Government and the Minister establishing the public hospital system and for Police from operational matters. In relation defending the public hospital system, while to—— honourable members opposite come into this Mr Borbidge: Explain your laws. 8 September 1994 9420 Legislative Assembly

Mr BRADDY: The honourable member the way this Government operates. In relation to should just listen for once. In relation to the the allegation—— operation of the prostitution laws and all the laws Opposition members interjected. of this State, the police go about their business and make decisions as to who is prosecuted. Mr BRADDY: Mr Speaker, may I be heard Where it is proper to do so, they invite the in this place? opinion of the Director of Prosecutions. They Mr Cooper interjected. also involve the Criminal Justice Commission in Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member relation to these matters. for Crows Nest under Standing Order 123A. The I will give Mr Borbidge an example. Did he level of interjection is still unacceptable. rise in this place when one of his colleagues was Mr BRADDY: In relation to the allegations found in his vehicle with a loaded firearm and no against Senator Richardson—— prosecution was launched against him and say that I made that decision? The honourable Mr Elliott interjected. member knows that I did not. The honourable Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member member knows that I did not see the statements. for Cunningham under Standing Order 123A. That is an example of his sleaziness and his Mr BRADDY:—as the CJC letter made hypocrisy. When one of his colleagues was abundantly clear, the police conduct the found with a loaded firearm, the police force—— operations. At all times the police have retained Opposition members interjected. the statements and the tapes, and the snide Mr BRADDY: Speaker, can I be heard in imputations and express statements of this House? impropriety have been proven wrong. To make it even clearer—if the laws do not apply, why is it Mr SPEAKER: Order! that those statements are still in existence? Can Mr BRADDY: The Police Service in this we believe the Opposition? State did the investigation. The Police Service It has come to my attention since yesterday and whoever else from whom they sought that, when the member for Broadwater raised opinions, and I do not know who those lawyers those matters in the House, statements had not were, made the decision that no prosecution been handed over—— would proceed. That is the way it should be. That is the way it is under our Government. Mr FitzGerald: He was obliged to. Returning to the issue of prostitution, in Mr BRADDY: The honourable member terms of the priest—— should just listen. When the member for Broadwater said that the statements had not Mr VEIVERS: I rise to a point of order. been handed over to the two witnesses, he Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member either deliberately or negligently misled this for Southport. There is no reason—— House. Mr VEIVERS: Yes, there is, Mr Speaker. Mr Borbidge interjected. My point of order is that I hope I get a letter of Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the Leader of clearance from the Police Department, because I the Opposition under Standing Order 123A. have not received it yet. Mr BRADDY: I inform the Leader of the Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Opposition and all members of this House that I member should resume his seat. am now informed by the police that they handed Mr BRADDY: In relation to the priest and over that statement of 15 December 1993 to the the prostitution charge—he was found by a relevant witness on 19 August. So when the police officer with sufficient credibility in member for Broadwater rose in this place and circumstances which entitled that charge to be said that the statements had been suppressed made. He pleaded guilty. That is the end of the or sanitised, they were already in the possession story. Again, no-one came to me or any other of the witness on 19 August. Secondly, on the member of this Government and asked our same day, she and the other witness were told permission. that copies of the audio tapes were available for Mr Borbidge: The law's a farce then. them, and they have never collected them. The members on the opposite side of the House Mr BRADDY: The Leader of the have no credibility. The member for Broadwater Opposition says that the law is a farce if the police leaks and he misleads the House. He cannot be do not come to the Police Minister and ask his or trusted. That is the standard that is now her permission to prosecute. That is the way the supported by the Leader of the Opposition. former Government used to operate; that is not Legislative Assembly 9421 8 September 1994

Social Program Spending Budgets; that represents increased spending of Mr PITT: In directing a question to the a further 9 per cent. During the first three years of Treasurer, I refer to criticism of this Government's this Government, health spending, which has spending on social programs by the Queensland been mentioned already this morning, increased Council of Social Services and the Leader of the by 33 per cent—an increase from 80 per cent to Parliamentary Liberal Party. I ask: can the 90 per cent of the national average. Since then, Treasurer advise the House whether that this Government has increased spending by a criticism is supported by the facts? further 14 per cent, or $294m. Overall, social and community service spending has increased by Mr De LACY: It is not supported by the 36 per cent—an increase from 83 per cent to 92 facts because the 7.30 Report never presented per cent of the national average. any facts. I want to make a general comment about the 7.30 Report program. Once again, it I make the point that, in their last two proved its inability and unwillingness to seriously Budgets, the other States of Australia slashed address economic issues. How a so-called spending in social areas. I am prepared to stand reputable program can seek to trivialise—— here today and say that, in all of those important social areas, Queensland now spends at least Mrs Sheldon interjected. 100 per cent of the national average. I am sure Mr De LACY: No, I am stating my opinion. that those critics of the State Government who An honourable member interjected. use national average spending figures to criticise Mr De LACY: I think the member will find this Government's performance in social areas that, in this instance, the facts and my opinion will live to rue the day. coincide. I do not know how the 7.30 Report can However, I should say also that this seek to trivialise such an important Government's spending record has been announcement that Queensland is net debt recognised by virtually everybody. Yesterday, I free. I think that it says a lot more about that made reference to the fact that the Leader of the program than what it says about the financial Opposition is one such person who has position of Queensland. recognised that. This year, in his Budget speech I might say that I was not surprised to hear the Leader of the Opposition said that this representatives from QCOSS on the program Budget confirms that the Goss Government is arguing for more spending in social areas. I the biggest spending State Government in the believe that that is legitimate. QCOSS is an nation. I did not say yesterday that in his Budget interest group, and that is a legitimate role for it to speech the Leader of the Opposition also said play. However, it disappointed me that QCOSS that there have been massive increases in health did not acknowledge the significant increase in spending. He also said that there have been spending in social areas that has occurred under record levels of spending on law and order. the Goss Government. That organisation So it seems to me that the whole world presented figures which not only were two years recognises the Government's increases in out of date, but also it was done in such a way as spending in social service areas except for to hide the performance of the Goss QCOSS, and that is a lobby group; the 7.30 Government in social areas since it has been in Report, and what would we expect; and, finally, Government. "Bankcard Joan". Because the 7.30 Report is not prepared to Mr Hamill: The old super shopper. give all the facts, I think that I owe it to this House Mr De Lacy: The super shopper. Perhaps to state once again some of the facts. In respect "Bankcard Joan" is probably not the right title for of education, which is one of the most important the member because, although she may be a social areas—and these are Commonwealth card, she never gives any credit. I think we Grants Commission figures, not our figures—in should call her the "Duchess of Debt"—"Let us comparison with all the States—— increase debt to increase social spending". Mr Connor interjected. I suggest to the member that she sort out Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member that matter with the Leader of the Coalition to see for Nerang under Standing Order 123A. if each can agree on a policy that remotely resembles the other. Mr De LACY: Between 1988-89 and I want to make a final point. As I said in the 1992-93, spending on education in Queensland statement that I made recently, good financial increased by 36 per cent—increasing it from 89 management is not the nemesis of good social per cent to 98 per cent of the national average. policy, it is an absolute pre-condition to good Since that time, this Government has added social outcomes and QCOSS, at least, ought to $197m per annum in the two succeeding recognise that, even if the others cannot. 8 September 1994 9422 Legislative Assembly

senators and members of the House of Tertiary Education Representatives to ask them for their support. Their responses are coming in and, contrary to Mr PITT: I direct a question to the Minister the response that I received from the Leader of for Education. Year 12 students throughout the Liberal Party, a number of Opposition Queensland have recently taken the core skills members responded very warmly and said that test as part of the student education profiles for they would be going into bat for Queensland. tertiary entrance ratings. I now ask: could he inform the House of the key dates for students seeking admission to Queensland tertiary State Debt institutions? Mrs SHELDON: In directing a question to Mr COMBEN: Obviously the core skills the Treasurer, I refer to his claim this week that test is part of the reforms introduced after the Queensland has reduced net debt to zero. I Professor Nancy Viviani report into the tertiary remind him that on 7 March 1990 he told the entrance scheme in Queensland. That system, House that net debt, which had been referred to which she recommended, is now in place. A by the former National Party Government, was couple of years ago, it had some teething meaningless. He said— problems, but last year it worked well. "National Party Governments have It is important for members and students in worked to create the illusion that our debt Queensland to understand that certain dates was only a little over $4 billion. That is simply signify a number of cut-off points. The next date not true. In fact, it totals $13.45 billion." of particular significance for students is 30 I ask the Treasurer: as gross debt, which was the September, which is the cut-off date for method that he favoured in 1990 remains applications to tertiary institutions without unchanged at more than $13.4 billion, will he incurring late fees. As has occurred during the now reaffirm his statement to this House that net last couple of years, this year students are able to debt, zero or otherwise, is misleading and tell change their course preferences once they have Queenslanders what per capita gross debt they received their student education profiles. The now owe? student education profiles will be posted on 16 December, and students will have until 3 January Mr De LACY: The important—— 1995 to lodge changes to their preferred Mr Veivers interjected. courses. Students will be able to do this using Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member the voice response system, which worked well for Southport under Standing Order 123A. I am last year and which allows applicants to make not going to allow that member to trivialise the inquiries or change preferences by telephone House. That may be the last crack the member 24 hours a day. will make today. Over the past three years, this Government Mr De LACY: The important measure is has committed $2m towards developing this net debt, which is a balance of the financial system and other new Queensland Tertiary assets with the financial liabilities. I make no Admission Centre systems for the benefit of apology for that. That is the correct measure. Net Queensland students. The voice response debt is an ABS figure and concept. system will assist students by making the process simpler and the access to information Mr FitzGerald: What did you say in 1989? better. Mr De LACY: Some of these things On 17 January 1995, the first major round of emerge. It was not until 1991 that the heads of offers will go out. Successful applicants will have Government and Treasury agreed on uniform until 24 January to respond. That is also the last accounting. Let me make the point that the date for lodging changes to preferred courses to important measure is net debt. universities. On 2 February, the final scheduled Opposition members interjected. round of offers will be made. After that date, Mr De LACY: Honourable members additional offers will be made as and when opposite should listen; I will explain it to them. It is vacancies arise. I remind honourable members of the need that we have in Queensland for extra true that our financial assets are set aside for tertiary places. Some 30 000 offers will be made, accruing obligations. So, technically, they cannot but we still need those extra places as students be used to pay off other debt. They are there coming from Victoria and New South Wales will because of the accruing superannuation seek tertiary places in Queensland. liabilities of the public sector. Nevertheless, the Australian Bureau of Statistics has come to the I remind members opposite that, a few conclusion that by far the best way of measuring weeks ago, I wrote to all the Queensland Legislative Assembly 9423 8 September 1994 the relative financial strength of a State is to use a net debt as the best measure to determine the net debt figure. relative importance—— I made the point in my statement this week Mr Borbidge: What about the Loan that our net debt is zero, as measured by the Council? concepts and standards of the Australian Bureau Mr De LACY: The Loan Council is not of Statistics. The total net debt of the other relevant. It does not exist in the form—— States of Australia is about $75 billion. On top of that $75 billion, those States have unfunded Mr Borbidge: It was then. superannuation liabilities of at least another $30 Mr De LACY: I do not know about that. It billion. does not exist in the form that it did then. We do Mr Springborg: Who's responsible for not have those global limits. The honourable that? member would not know that global limits do not exist any more. Mr De LACY: For what? For their not funding their obligations? I suppose that they Mr W. K. Goss: The game's changed are. while you've been away. Mrs Sheldon: No, Labor was. Mr De LACY: Yes, the game has changed. Mr De LACY: They are still not funding them. The Australian Bureau of Statistics is now the body that coordinates and establishes the In conclusion, I will say this: Queensland is standards by which all States report. It was in certainly in the strongest financial position of any 1991 that the concept of net debt was started. In State in Australia, and, as I said, I suspect that this 1990, I said that—and the honourable member is so of anywhere in the world. I am not surprised has just repeated this—the international rating that the Opposition will look around to try to find a agencies do not accept "net debt" as a term, way of playing down that position. So we have because they do separate out the funding for the Opposition and the 7.30 Report, but I will tell future liabilities. They do not include them. the House this: the rest of the world understands Standard and Poors or Moody's present their who is doing it best. information in a completely different way. So what I said in 1990 still applies today in respect of the rating agencies, but it does not apply in Queensland Debt; Net Debt Figures respect of the Australian Government Mrs SHELDON: In directing a question to assessment of the relative performance of the the Treasurer, I refer to the letter he tabled in States. March 1990 from KPMG Peat Marwick to back up his claim at the time that the use of net debt As I said in my speech the other day, we figures for Queensland was misleading. It have compiled our figures in cooperation with stated— the Australian Bureau of Statistics. It even sends somebody to Treasury to assist us while we are "At 30 June, 1989, total gross liabilities doing our figures, and we have an agreed were approximately $13,456.9 million when outcome. So they are not just our figures; they expressed in a manner consistent with other are eventually signed off by the Australian States and under generally acceptable Bureau of Statistics, and that is why we can see principles for issues of long-term debt." how much Queensland is in front of the rest of The Treasurer stated that the Commonwealth Australia. Loan Council did not accept the use of net debt It is the easiest thing in the world to quote figures, saying— old speeches. I could quote an old speech—I ". . . neither do the international credit rating have not got it here, but I will paraphrase agencies, Moody's and Standard and it—made by the Leader of the Opposition. He Poors, nor do Australian Ratings." was not the Leader of the Opposition then; he I ask: given that, according to the Treasurer's was aspiring to be the Leader of the Opposition. preferred measure, Queensland's debt position Mr Hamill: Conspiring. after four years of Labor administration remains unchanged, will he admit that this week he Mr De LACY: Yes, in those days he was misled Queenslanders by quoting net debt, or aspiring and conspiring to be the Leader of the does he intend to continue misleading Opposition. Queenslanders in this way? Do honourable members remember what he Mr De LACY: That is a good question. A said? He said, "This is the last Budget where the while ago, I said that it was not until 1991 that the Treasurer and the Goss Government will be able heads of Treasury agreed to use the concept of to dine out on the legacy that they got from the 8 September 1994 9424 Legislative Assembly

National Party. From this point on, they are on The new scheme also recognises that there their own. What happens in Queensland will be are those in the community who have continuing their fault." As everybody recognises—— needs for access to disabled parking. That is why Mr Borbidge: By your own standards, we have a renewable five-year permit for those debt has not gone down. with a permanent disability. We have also introduced a one-year permit for those who are Mr De LACY: What nonsense! That just experiencing a temporary disability. It will enable shows that the member is not at first base in access by those who, perhaps for some trying to understand what is going on in this short-term medical condition or whatever other world. But, as everybody knows, we have put a reason, need the assistance that the Disabled lot of space between Queensland and the rest of Parking Scheme will offer. Australia in the past five years, and we will continue to do that. The new scheme has been warmly welcomed by the disabled community. It is equitable and just, and it furthers this Disabled Parking Scheme Government's clear commitment to social justice to those elements of the community who need Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask the Minister for special assistance to help them participate fully in Transport: can he inform the House what steps community life. the Government is taking to improve parking facilities for people with disabilities? Small Business in Regional Queensland Mr HAMILL: Last night in the House, I had Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask the Minister for occasion to refer to the Taxi Subsidy Scheme Business, Industry and Regional Development: and how that is an important part of our delivery is he aware of problems in planning practices in of social justice and equity to particular groups in small businesses in regional Queensland? What the community who have difficulty with respect to is the Government going to do to address these mobility. The Disabled Parking Scheme is problems? another of those measures designed to deliver Mr ELDER: A little over a year ago, the social justice and equitable solutions for those Government introduced the Business Plus people who have a disability that causes them Scheme. That scheme provided a $1,000 great difficulty in participating in normal subsidy to enable small businesses to formulate community activities, whether it be employment, business plans. leisure, recreational pursuits or engaging simply Mr Lester interjected. in doing the shopping. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member In this State we have had a scheme which for Keppel under Standing Order 123A. has been open to abuse. It has attracted Mr ELDER: In a basic sense, businesses considerable criticism from the organisations that can use those plans to help them access bank have as their charge the representation of the finance. We are constantly reviewing our needs of disabled citizens. That is why, in close programs to assist companies in rural and cooperation with those groups, we have regional Queensland in particular. Yesterday, I launched a new Disabled Parking Scheme. announced changes to the scheme to make the This morning, I shared the podium with finance available under the scheme more representatives from ACROD and other accessible to small businesses throughout the organisations representing the disabled State. community in launching that new scheme to We have increased the amount of cash provide greater equity and social justice to assistance from $1,000 to $2,500. In addition, disabled members of our community. The new we have changed the scheme to provide options scheme works as follows. It is a two-tiered for small business. In the case of single-person scheme, basically operating two types of operated businesses or dual-person operated permits—blue and red permits. businesses, a basic diagnostic plan will be drawn up to assist those companies that are starting out The blue permit provides a higher level of to take the first step on the path of good assistance to those with a permanent disability. business planning. The scheme will offer a more That will enable those people to access sophisticated plan to those small businesses that regulated parking places free of charge and also are expanding. As I have outlined to the House other disabled parking spaces at shopping previously, over the past four years small centres, hospitals and so on. The red permit will businesses in Queensland have been not extend to the regulated or metered parking expanding at four times the national rate. The places but certainly to the other types of parking scheme will also offer a sophisticated plan to facilities. medium-size businesses in order to provide Legislative Assembly 9425 8 September 1994 further opportunity for expansion. For small Government's performance on the progress of businesses in rural and regional Queensland, reform in the Queensland Police Service. One the scheme will offer a group plan. Under such a particular conclusion of that report stated— plan, businesses of a similar nature can be "There are several outstanding issues networked together. For small businesses in to be resolved, particularly in respect to rural Queensland, a single consultant can be community policing and associated engaged. personnel and management issues." We will also provide a travel subsidy to enable consultants to access rural Queensland. The CJC discovered the following— In the past, the tyranny of distance has been a ". . . only a limited number of community problem in providing support to small businesses consultative committees have been in rural areas. The intent of the changes is to established and relatively few appear to be make the scheme more flexible. To date, it has operating effectively." been far too rigid and its focus has been far too Further, it discovered that— bureaucratic. These changes will enable the scheme to be adapted to suit individual "Insufficient attention has been given businesses' needs. Obviously, small businesses to how officers may be more effectively in rural communities have needs that are far used and to the development of alternative different from those in the south-east corner. staffing options to increase coverage and Much of the assistance offered under a group improve service to the community." plan will be targeted at those businesses that are I ask: how does the Minister explain these affected by drought, and we realise that at failures? present many businesses are in that category. In Mr BRADDY: In relation to the CJC many cases, small businesses have struggled report—it has been made abundantly clear that due to being unable to access the type of the report was substantially based on 300 support that can be offered by consultants and interviews that were conducted between other experts. This scheme will provide September and December 1992. Because of businesses with that type of support and changes in staffing, particularly at the level of the back-up. head of the research section, the report was not These changes have been worked on over published until 1994. the past 12 months. The scheme has been a In relation to community policing—this is success to date. However, we must examine one area in which it is clear that the CJC certainly ways in which we can build small businesses into was not up to date. I repeat what I said the other medium businesses and medium businesses day in this place and elsewhere. For example, in into stronger businesses. If members opposite relation to the police relationship with the want to know what we are doing for small community, two most important areas of business in drought-affected areas, I invite them innovation were not even mentioned in the to ask me a question. The simple fact is that report. I refer to the institution of Aboriginal members opposite are a bunch of conspiracy police liaison officers and the expansion of that theorists. The member for Broadwater claims to initiative. There is not even a mention in the CJC have evidence on this and that and claims to be report of those people, who are community able to roll out the evidence at any time. We all workers without the power of arrest. Similarly, the know that the member's contact is Elvis. If report did not mention the introduction of members opposite want to know about a shopfronts throughout the State and their particular topic, they should just ask a question. expansion in the current Budget. The words The only conspiracy the Opposition has ever "police shopfronts" do not even appear in the perpetrated is on the people of Queensland is CJC report. trying to justify itself as a reputable Opposition. Although the CJC made a last-minute effort to catch up with some statistics, it conducted its interviews to gauge the reactions of people two CJC Report on Police Service Reforms years ago, but the report was not published until Mr COOPER: In directing a question to this year. That is why some of the information is the Minister for Police, I refer to the CJC report out of date. The CJC did not give me the on the response of the Queensland Police opportunity to comment. Service to the Fitzgerald inquiry Mr Cooper: You reject the report, do you? recommendations and the Minister's recent rhetoric, posturing, excuse making and damage Mr BRADDY: I accept that there are some control in an attempt to discredit the CJC report, matters of worth in the report, but there are some which in itself is an indictment of the matters that are clearly out of date. Any fair- minded member of Parliament or the community 8 September 1994 9426 Legislative Assembly would accept that, if a body is going to write a consultation involving both the indigenous and report which among other things is based on non-indigenous communities. people's perceptions and statements and it is Following public rejection of a proposed site two years since those people have been in Townsville—the Oonoombah site— officers of interviewed before the report is published, the my department, in close consultation with the report has to be significantly not up to date. relevant Aboriginal organisations, the Townsville Mr Cooper: It's lacking, is it? City Council, the Queensland Police Service, the Mr BRADDY: The report is lacking in terms Department of Lands and the regional health of going back to the people. The CJC should authority, have investigated a number of sites. At have gone back and reinterviewed those people a meeting last month, they announced three in 1994 before it issued the report. I make no sites which met the criteria, which are: the Old apology for saying that. The report came out long Common Road, near the airport on Belgian after the interviews. When a body writes a report Gardens; the former quarry site in West End; and but does not publish it for two years after the Oonoombah site. The meeting expressed interviews are conducted, that body must face preference for the Old Common Road site. Further consultation with the community and an the fact that the report is not up to date. That is information campaign are now proceeding. A probably a fair and objective assessment. public meeting to which all stakeholders and In relation to community policing—there are interested community members have been many more police consultative committees than invited is to be held on 23 September. I will the CJC gave credit for. I gave details in this attend this meeting and a decision will be made House only the other day of the various on the site of the diversionary centre soon committees that the police and the community afterwards. work on. We will continue to advance those There has been an unwillingness on the initiatives with the same integrity and credibility part of the Rockhampton community to find and that we bring to this portfolio that the National support a suitable site for a diversionary centre, Party never brought to it. and the Rockhampton City Council has regrettably refused to become involved in the Diversionary Centres process and reserves the right, it thinks, to veto any site chosen. In close cooperation with the Mr BEATTIE: I direct a question to the Aboriginal and Islander community, the Police Minister for Family Services and Aboriginal and Service, the regional health authority and the Islander Affairs in relation to alcohol-related Lands Department, officers of my department problems. I ask: will the Minister inform the House have investigated eight sites in the city and have how soon diversionary centres for intoxicated expressed a preference for a site at Western people will be operating in Rockhampton and Street, Wandal and another site at Knight Street. Townsville? They have provided information for local Ms WARNER: I thank the honourable residents, attended public meetings and member for his interest in this area. Diversionary propose to hold a final public meeting during the programs are already operating with some first week in October. success and public support in Mount Isa, Cairns Mr Lingard interjected. and Brisbane. In both Rockhampton and Townsville, the Government's best efforts to Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member for Beaudesert under Standing Order 124. I ask establish diversionary centres have been him to withdraw his comments, which are hindered to date, although the need does clearly disrespectful to the Chair. I am not going to wear exist in those places. that. The objective of diversionary centres is to Mr Lingard: I withdraw. ensure that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are at risk to themselves and others Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have warned the as a consequence of their inebriated state have member under Standing Order 124. access to non-custodial health and welfare Ms WARNER: A decision on the facilities providing sobering-up support services. Rockhampton site will be made soon after that Any site for a diversionary centre needs to be, meeting. Over a period of two years, there has firstly, close to a hospital and other specialist been extensive consultation in both cities, and facilities such as detoxification and rehabilitation now is the time for decision. Where local services and, secondly, on serviced land which communities cannot make a decision, the may be available either from the Government Government must, in the end, step in—— stocks or, as a last resort, on the open market. It Mr Borbidge: You had unlimited time for also needs to be chosen after wide public Legislative Assembly 9427 8 September 1994 ministerial statements this morning and you're appreciated. It would also help those making them in question time. This is an absolute unemployed young artists. They are having a go joke. at retailing their work and they are engaged in a Ms WARNER: Mr Speaker, this is training program. It may be said that we should important information for the House. Where local simply live by the principle of art for art's sake, but communities cannot make a decision, the I urge also the principle of art for work's sake. Government must, in the end, step in and nominate the place. In the end, the Government has a duty to step in and nominate a place for a Mr G. Richardson, Suppression of facility which is, after all, for the benefit of the Evidence whole community—— Mr GRICE: I direct a question to the Mrs Sheldon: What happened to reform Minister for Police and Minister for Corrective of question time? Services. I refer to investigations into the association between former Labor senator Ms WARNER: The honourable member Graham Richardson and organised crime should listen and learn for once in her life—and elements, including prostitution activities, which which will go a long way towards reducing the are clearly in breach of Queensland law. I seek incidence of deaths in custody. leave to table an addendum statement signed by a key witness. Assistance to Visual Arts and Crafts Leave granted. Mr BEATTIE: I direct a question to the Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial Relations. Under-employment is a key issue for PRIVILEGE Queensland's visual arts community. I ask: could Tabling of Documents the Minister advise the House what support the Goss Government is providing to the visual arts Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister and crafts peak organisations to tackle this issue? for Employment, Training and Industrial Relations) (11.18 a.m.): I rise on a point of Mr FOLEY: I do thank the honourable privilege. I simply draw to the attention of the member for the question because he House that the provisions of the Parliamentary accompanied me the other day down to Petrie Papers Act, which I had the honour of Bight to launch the funding for an employment introducing as a private member's Bill, do give a officer of the Queensland Art Workers Alliance in mechanism for the Speaker or the House to the sum of $48,500. This is a very important confer privilege by way of the member seeking initiative, because it will generate jobs for leave and that being granted by the Speaker or unemployed visual artists by liaising with tourism the House, but I note in the circumstances simply and development authorities. It is sometimes that the document has not been viewed by the said—and I think it was the English poet John House—it may have been viewed by the Dryden who said it—that it is the function of art to Speaker, I know not. teach and to delight. Well, it is also the function of art to employ, and this initiative is part of a Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. commitment to ensuring that Queensland artists, Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am hearing a and in particular unemployed people, have an matter of privilege. The honourable member will opportunity to gain employment in that industry. get his chance after that. It includes, for example, a grant of some $70,000 to arts training in Queensland since May 1992 as Mr FOLEY: I simply draw it to the part of an ongoing assessment of training and Speaker's attention because it does involve a labour market needs within that industry and an question of privilege as to whether or not the sort interesting grant of some $7,500 for a feasibility of privilege that attaches to documents which study into an experimental gallery for young have been granted leave to be tabled should be unemployed artists. granted in circumstances where defamatory imputations are published without the mind of I strongly recommend that all members of the Parliament having been applied to them. the House go and inspect their works at the Funky Armadillo Cafe at West End and perhaps Mr SPEAKER: Order! At the moment I am purchase an item and thereby help the not in a position to give a ruling on the Minister unemployed artists. It is the sort of place where for Employment's matter of privilege, but I will one sees National Party members who want to consider that statement and treat it in the usual get off the tourist track into some of the more manner. avant-garde quarters of Brisbane and it is the QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE place for National Party members to be seen and 8 September 1994 9428 Legislative Assembly

Mr G. Richardson, Suppression of prosecuted. I will give the same favour to all Evidence residents of Queensland—a favour that was Mr GRICE: The addendum table identifies never given by members opposite when they a client only as No. 7 on a photograph board and were in Government. Do they remember the late another man only as Nick who drove the green Russ Hinze spreading a map across the bonnet car on a counter number 135 on a video. We of a car and saying to a police officer, "Where do know that No. 7 is the former Labor senator you want to be transferred to?" That anecdote Graham Richardson and that Nick who drove the sums up what those members did when they green Ford is the organised crime boss, Nick were in charge of the police. Karlos. Given the relationship between the Labor In relation to these charges—the mere fact senator and the crime boss revealed by the that the honourable member rises here and tries events of 10 August last year, I ask: is the to impugn a continuing investigation by the Minister concerned at the involvement of a police and the CJC into organised crime means former senior Federal Government Minister with that he has no respect for the law and no respect an organised crime figure? Further, what steps for investigations into very serious matters. I has the Minister taken to ensure comprehensive reject him, I reject his credibility, and I challenge investigations of such links between elements of him to prove that he did not have these the Australian Labor Party and organised crime? statements when he rose in this House and Mr BRADDY: This is another question in misled the House. the serial smear by this particular gentleman of me and this Government. I repeat what I said Mr G. Richardson, Suppression of before. I challenge this member to prove his Evidence credibility. I say to him and this House that the statements that he said were not released to the Mr GRICE: I direct a question to the witnesses concerned were in fact all released on Minister for Justice and Attorney-General. I refer 19 August before he came into this House and to widespread speculation that prosecutors are said that sanitised statements had been under pressure to drop actions at Southport prepared and statements had gone missing. I against Gayle Beverley Ashton and Jacqueline also tell this House that the audio tapes which he Leyden, the alleged principals of an organised also said had not been handed over were prostitution ring whose clients have included the available to be collected—copies have been former Labor Senator Graham Richardson. sitting on the desk of the police officer since 19 Mr Wells: Mr Speaker, I can't hear. August and they have not been collected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Attorney says This man has no credibility. I believe that he he cannot hear. Can I have some quiet so that we knew when he rose in this place that those can hear the member? statements had been handed over and he has Mr GRICE: I refer to widespread come in here in the process of a serial smear to speculation that prosecutors are under pressure let them out one by one. Unless he can prove to to be drop actions at Southport against Gayle this place that he did not have possession of that Beverley Ashton and Jacqueline Leyden, the statement of 15 December 1993 when he first alleged principals of an organised prostitution rose in this House and he started this serial ring whose clients have included the former smear, he has no credibility. Labor Senator Graham Richardson. As to the question—the member knows that Since the Police Minister has admitted in the the CJC and the police are conducting two House that there is a body of evidence in different operations. One is into prostitution, and existence to support the provision of prostitution two defendants have already been charged, by another person—an offence against which means that we cannot discuss the matter Queensland law—I ask: how can the Attorney- because those defendants will come before the General reassure Queenslanders that the court. As to the other operation—it is an prosecutions against Ashton and Leyden will be investigation into prostitution and its links with pursued to the full extent of the law and not organised crime. I have not even seen the allowed to lapse in order to protect Richardson statement that the member refers to now—I have and the Australian Labor Party? never seen it. I do not know what is in it and it is quite proper that I do not see it. Mr WELLS: The honourable member should not concern himself about the I give to the House this assurance: under independence of the prosecutorial service. If this Government's administration and under my there were ever any pressure to be applied to administration as Police Minister I will give the the prosecutorial service—pressure which I have Opposition one favour—that the police alone will never been aware of in the past—but if there conduct operations and they will decide who is were any such pressures to be applied to the Legislative Assembly 9429 8 September 1994 prosecutorial service, it would be ineffective, the Opposition is in support of this piece of even if the pressure was pressure to delay or legislation. I agree with what the Government is prevent a prosecution against himself. doing by condensing some of the top-heavy Acts that govern the Department of Transport and bringing those Acts to a more realistic level. PRIVILEGE This legislation is about the Acts that govern the Tabling of Documents by Member for Gateway Bridge and motorways. Broadwater From time to time in recent weeks, the Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise— Government has made decisions about some of Leader of the Opposition) (11.13 a.m.): I rise on a the road infrastructure in the south-east corner of matter of privilege. Mr Speaker, I seek your the State. I believe that members are well aware guidance in respect of the status of certain that the big picture is that there is more to the documents tabled by the member for Broadwater State than the south-east corner. When and the matter of privilege raised by the Minister. members talk about road infrastructure, they talk Mr Mackenroth: You want to get your only about the south-eastern corridor, the Gold grubby little fingers on it. Coast Highway, the Brisbane motorway and the Mr BORBIDGE: Yesterday, the Leader of Camira bypass. Although I recognise that those the House wanted everything tabled. Today, he roads are important arterial links, the big picture is is trying to stop it. He cannot have it both ways. that this State has a massive number of roads Mr Speaker, yesterday, in accordance with the that need to be catered for. wishes of the Leader of the House that certain Last night, the Transport Operations information be tabled, and the attempt by the (Passenger Transport) Bill was passed through Minister today to stop the tabling, I seek your the House. The Minister said that the legislation ruling as to whether leave was granted and was not just about public transport or private whether those documents—— transport; he said that it was also about Mr FOLEY: I rise to a point of order. At no infrastructure. Today, members are again talking stage did I seek to stop the tabling. about transport infrastructure. Mr FitzGerald: The assurance is that he This Government must recognise that this did not seek to do that. State has sufficient resources. I do not believe Mr BORBIDGE: Okay, I accept the that we are fully utilising the existing space that is assurance that those particular documents are available. Members can talk about Valley privileged under the Parliamentary Papers Act. bypasses, south-eastern corridors and Mr SPEAKER: Order! I said that I would Toowoomba bypasses—the list goes on. look at the matter raised—— However, we must utilise our resources to the best of our ability and obtain the best value for Mr Connor interjected. the taxpayer's dollar. People want the best road Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for system that we can offer. That is a fair thing. Nerang will allow me to speak. I indicated that I In the past, the Minister has spoken about would look at the point of view that was put by road corridors. I am aware of studies that have the Minister for Employment, Training and been conducted in relation to those corridors to Industrial Relations. My ruling is that if leave is ensure that they are built in the best locations sought for the tabling of a document, it is and that the job is done properly. However, the privileged. I said that I would have a look at the dollars must come from somewhere, and I know statement made by the Minister so that I could that that is not always easy. As I said, I believe consider the implications of what he said. At the that we can better utilise the existing corridors. moment, my ruling stands: if leave is sought for the tabling of documents, they are privileged. Last night, during the debate on the The time allotted for question time has now passenger transport legislation, reference was expired. made to public transport and the heavy congestion in city areas. We must better educate TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE people. Whether it be in relation to public AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2) transport or private transport, an education Second Reading program must be put in place; but, to date, that Debate resumed from 30 August (see has not happened. Every morning, one can stand on any street corner in Brisbane and see p. 8966). 20 or 30 cars go past with just one person in Mr JOHNSON (Gregory) (11.15 a.m.): In them before one will see a car that contains more rising to speak to the Transport Infrastructure than one person. We are all in this together. We Amendment Bill, I point out from the outset that need a public awareness campaign. If we are 8 September 1994 9430 Legislative Assembly going to work out this problem, we must first road infrastructure is in place to address that consider the big picture. situation. I leave the subject of the south-east corner While I am on the subject of roads, I will to return to the Transport Infrastructure mention the Texas-Yelarbon River road. That is a Amendment Bill. This legislation is about very important road in the southern part of the providing a service to the whole of Queensland State for the carriage of cattle to the feedlots in and recognising that the road structure in this that vicinity. I urge the Minister to pay particular State is far from adequate at this time. I know attention to that road. I believe that recently it has perfectly well the hardships that have been been graded. It is not a very long road but it is a confronted by local authorities and the very important arterial link to that part of the State. Department of Transport because of ongoing One gratifying aspect of this legislation is drought. A number of road pavements are the promotion to assist private investment in the deteriorating because of the drought. As we are provision of maintenance and operation of road all aware, water is a major component in any road transport infrastructure. That has been ongoing building program. since the introduction of the Transport Planning As to the roads in the far-flung areas of the and Coordination Bill, which came into this State—the Boulia-Tobermory road comes to House a short time ago. I think that is a very mind. That road is 250 kilometres long. The important part of this legislation and it a very Minister is well aware of the state of that road. It is important part of any legislation relating to road an important arterial link to the Northern Territory. transport. In the past, local authorities have held It is a very important road for carrying cattle back the trump card in relation to road construction in into Queensland and it is a very important tourist their own areas. I believe that they should still link. It is a road that needs a great amount of hold that card because, as honourable members money spent on it to upgrade it so that we can should bear in mind, at the moment local take full advantage of the potential that that road authorities are the lifeblood of many of our rural has to offer for the economic wellbeing of the communities. It is paramount that the work forces region and this State and for the tourist industry of those local authorities are in place and of this State. Honourable members should bear progressing— whether the people are doing in mind that that is a local authority road. I know road works, maintenance or just the normal that well. day-to-day council activity. From time to time, Mr Hamill interjected. private enterprise has to come into those jurisdictions to provide some services, including Mr JOHNSON: I am referring to the Boulia- the hauling of pavement materials such as gravel Tobermory Road. It is a road that is going to mean or road foundation materials. Bitumen companies millions of dollars not only to the region but also come in to provide the final seal for the roads. for the State in the form of jobs and export earnings. That is what we are all The Jessamine Crossing job comes to mind. about—promotion. It is a matter of promoting the With that job on the Federal highway at Winton, resources that we have and at the same time much of the work was carried out by the Winton promoting the area that we live in, and I refer to Shire Council under the supervision of the those areas in particular, to make sure that we Department of Transport. What a magnificent job can transport the goods from those areas. that was. Private contractors were involved also. The point that I am make, and it is important to the I will put honourable members in the picture whole of Queensland, is that it is important to once more in relation to that particular stretch of keep that money in the local areas. If it is not kept road. We are losing the cattle from that region. in the local area, then it should remain in the area They go to Alice Springs and then through the that is adjacent to that region. I invite private centre to Adelaide. They will be slaughtered in enterprise to fulfil that obligation. At the same Adelaide and then exported out of Swanson time, what we are about is doing the job right, Dock in Melbourne. We want to ensure that we and doing it right the first time. can utilise the infrastructure of our road system in Queensland and take advantage of our western This piece of legislation covers the Gateway neighbour, the Northern Territory, and also our Bridge and the Motorways Agreement Act of southern neighbour, New South Wales. We want 1987. Enormous problems exist on the north as much of the productivity as possible, of coast, especially in relation to the tolls on roads whatever the commodity—cattle, wool or up north and the Logan Motorway. I believe that wheat—to come through the ports of Brisbane, there is going to be much more consultation with Townsville, Rockhampton or even through the local authorities in question, particularly with Karumba from where the live cattle are being the Maroochy Shire Council in relation to the exported. It is absolutely paramount that that northern toll road. Legislative Assembly 9431 8 September 1994

I have looked at that road and there is no those workshops have never been happier, as doubt that that toll has to go. I have made the he told me himself. statement that we would lift that toll on that road. Mr Hamill: They closed them. That toll has to go because it is sending much traffic through the business area of Mr JOHNSON: They have not closed all Maroochydore. I have pursued this and I have the workshops in Western Australia. There are inspected it at first-hand with my colleague the still workshops open in that State. member for Mooloolah. The situation in that area Mr Hamill: Who owns them? is grave. All that road is doing is compounding a Mr JOHNSON: They are privatised, but problem that should not be there. I believe that the people who are working in those workshops the Department of Transport, the Minister and are Western Australian railway employees. the Maroochy Shire Council are looking at that. During the hearing conducted by the Transport Mr Hamill: Why did you put it there in the Estimates Committee, the Minister said that first place? those people were out of a job. I will refer him to Mr JOHNSON: I take the interjection from that document and we will consider it. At this time the Minister. No doubt mistakes have been made in Western Australia—we have got off the track, in the past. If mistakes have been made, I am the but I want to clarify this point—the people were first one to own up. But let us address the not pushed out of the work. They are earning current need. The problems have been further more money than they ever earned under the compounded by the ongoing saga of people Western Australia railways. As the Minister for bypassing the toll and travelling through the Transport in that State told me, they cannot get business area of Maroochydore. No doubt my the workers to go home from work because their colleague the member for Mooloolah will address working conditions are now too good. They are that issue later in the day. I know that he is on the earning more money, and they have never been list of speakers. happier. I think that this Minister should take that matter on board and see if he cannot apply those Those are contentious issues about saving same principles to the workshops in taxpayers' dollars, ratepayers' dollars and local Queensland. authority dollars. I think that you will agree, Mr Deputy Speaker, that what we are about is Mr Hamill interjected. getting the best value for our dollars. In the past Mr JOHNSON: No, I did not say that we we have seen—and we will probably see it would privatise them. I did not say that; they are again—places where money has not been spent the Minister's words. The Opposition is about properly, where it should have been spent on a providing jobs; the Minister is taking away jobs. I particular road and it was spent somewhere else. could speak all day about the situation in That is history. We are about getting a fair share Townsville because I know that the Minister is of that road infrastructure money and making wrong. The Minister also said during the sure that it is spent properly the first time. Estimates Committee hearing that 1 500 men in I believe that this is one of the most railway workshops throughout this State will lose important portfolios for the whole of the State. their jobs. No doubt the Minister for Transport is well aware Mr Hamill: No, I did not. that his counterpart in Western Australia, the Mr JOHNSON: Yes, the Minister Honourable Eric Charlton, is working to the did—1 500. concept "Fix Australia; fix the roads". I believe that a similar concept would be advantageous to Mr Hamill: No, I didn't. I said no-one would this State. lose their jobs. Mr Hamill: Eric fixed the Midland railway Mr JOHNSON: What are they going to do workshops, too. He closed them right down. then? Sit in the railway yards doing nothing while the Minister pays them? The Opposition is about Mr JOHNSON: I will take that interjection providing productivity, but under this from the Minister for Transport. In relation to the Government that is not happening. I believe that Midland railway workshop in Western the Minister should take as long and hard a look Australia—and Eric Charlton told me this at the railway problems in Townsville as he does himself—— at problems in the south-east corner. Mr Hamill interjected. I will return to the legislation. The Opposition Mr JOHNSON: The Minister should listen is in total support of the franchised roads to me because he is not going to like the answer. concept, because it provides a different Eric Charlton has introduced enterprise management structure for the construction of bargaining, and those men who are working in roadways. I believe that we need more private enterprise input into road building because 8 September 1994 9432 Legislative Assembly private enterprise has a lot to offer. We know of Mr Hamill: I would like to, but I think I am the great work that was carried out in the past by busy. Theiss Constructions. That company has Mr Santoro: I know where he's going to provided a great service not only to Queensland be. He's going to be distributing surveys at but also to many other parts of Australia, I know Kalinga. that in the western and northern parts of this State, private operators are very willing and able Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Briskey): to work with either local authorities or the Order! The member will return to the Bill before Department of Transport in building roads in this the House. State. I believe that they have a big future. They Mr JOHNSON: While I am on Betoota, I will are Queenslanders through and through, and elaborate to say that Betoota is a very important their money stays in this State. part of Queensland. I say in closing that the Opposition supports Mr Beattie interjected. this piece of legislation. However, at the same Mr JOHNSON: The member for Brisbane time, I point out to the Minister that, in regard to Central can laugh, but it is one of the his concepts for roads in the south-east corner settlements—— and the airport motorway, he has it wrong. The Minister talks all the time about his consultation Mr Beattie interjected. programs, but I believe that he has to consult Mr JOHNSON: For the member's with the right people. The leaks from his information, I point out that it is a hotel on its own. department are another problem. However, we Betoota is a very important part of the Diamantina have to utilise the available space, we have to Shire. utilise the available resources and we have to Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I utilise to the full extent the knowledge of our find the comment that I would laugh about such engineers, people employed in the Department an important town offensive, and I ask that it be of Transport and in local authorities, and the withdrawn. people who live in the local communities. It is absolutely paramount that we recognise their Mr JOHNSON: A bit close to the bone, is asset base and their needs. it? I know that, from time to time, the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Briskey): Government is going to have to make some hard Order! The honourable member will withdraw. decisions and, as the Minister for Transport, he Mr JOHNSON: I will. will have to say, "Yes, a road has to be built." Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: And return to However, if the people are consulted and the the Bill before the House. homework is done in the right manner and at the right time, I believe that we will not experience Mr JOHNSON: I will return to the Bill. I ask the confrontations that we have seen occur in the Minister to listen, because he has not Brisbane during the last two or three months. listened to much of what I have had to say so far. I want to elaborate and say to the member for One matter that concerns me—and, no Brisbane Central and to the Minister that the doubt, in time the Minister will tell me about Diamantina Shire Council, to which I referred, this—is the resumption cost to Queensland does a great job. That part of the world does not when these roads are constructed. No doubt the have any sealed pavement at all. That shire has figure will be astronomical and will far exceed the embarked on a program to upgrade the roads in Minister's expectations. I believe that by utilising the area with mud rock. From time to time, most existing corridors, by upgrading existing of those roads have a heavy concentration of corridors and by upgrading the service roads type two road train traffic. Given the limited such as the Gold Coast highway or the road amount of dollars that it receives, I congratulate through the Valley, we will save an enormous the Diamantina Shire Council on a great effort. amount of money in resumptions. We have to get it right in the first instance. Mr Hamill: And we provide special funding to them, as well. I hope that, in future, the people who live in these areas, whether they are in the greater part Mr JOHNSON: I know that. I recognise of Brisbane, the Gold Coast, Townsville, Cairns, that and I hope that the Minister can see the Birdsville, Boulia or wherever for that matter—— need, as I said earlier—— Mr Hamill: Or Betoota. Mr Hamill: I've been out there. Mr JOHNSON: That is a very important Mr JOHNSON: I know that the Minister part of my electorate. The races are on there in a has, but in relation to that road to which I referred, fortnight's time. I hope that the Minister will come I hope that the Minister can see the need to out to the races. address the same urgent problem that exists in Legislative Assembly 9433 8 September 1994 the Boulia Shire. No doubt, the roads in the traffic analysis, and that proposal from the electorate of Cook also face problems because Brisbane City Council which was put to the State they carry a heavy concentration of road trains Government, proposed basically a number of carting cattle from the gulf. Many of those roads improvements to the existing road network to are not sealed. In regard to export earnings and achieve four things: firstly, to reduce traffic the provision of jobs, they are an important part movement, including heavy vehicle volumes in of the infrastructure of this State. I urge the the CBD and Valley area by providing a limited Government to pay particular attention to the access route around the city. road needs of not just the south-east corner but I might give the council a bit of unsolicited the whole of Queensland. advice. One of the things that it can do to reduce Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) traffic in the CBD is to increase parking charges, (11.38 a.m.): I rise to support the Transport as the honourable member for Archerfield keeps Infrastructure Amendment Bill (No. 2). In doing reminding me. Secondly, the proposed bypass so, I congratulate the Minister on the initiatives would complete a partial ring-road route around that he has taken over a period to address the the CBD and Valley that links Coronation Drive to very grave infrastructure problems that this Breakfast Creek Road. Thirdly, the proposed Government inherited from the National Party bypass would overcome delays at the Gilchrist Government. That Government left us with very Avenue/Bowen Bridge Road/Campbell Street little infrastructure planning in Queensland, intersection. Fourthly, it is proposed that the particularly in the south-east corner. road will act as a western distributor to a future I do not intend to repeat what I said northern transport corridor. yesterday when I raised my concerns about this Let us look at road volumes, because they lack of planning and referred to the important are central to this debate. It does not matter what work that has been carried out by the SEQ 2001 view people take; these are the problems that we study. The reality is that in the south-east corner have to confront, and they are the legacy that we we are faced with an enormous growth problem, inherited. For example, let us take Lutwyche and the previous National Party Government, Road, Lutwyche. As members would know, and before it the National Party/Liberal Coalition Lutwyche Road and Bowen Bridge Road go right Government, did nothing to address the through my electorate of Brisbane Central. problems that we confront today. Lutwyche Road is a major arterial. I get a little annoyed when I hear the Mr Hamill: They're council roads, though. Opposition spokesmen handing out advice on Mr BEATTIE: I take that important what we ought to do about roads and infrastructure planning when, for 32 years, the interjection; they are council roads. Opposition did absolutely nothing about them. The daily capacity of that road is 40 000. The Talk about Pontius Pilate, playing games and current volume is 47 600. By the year 2006, washing their hands of the matter! It is easy to say without any new facility such as an airport anything when members are in Opposition. In motorway or whatever—— Government, we have tried to do something Mr Santoro: You're not advocating that, about it. I get a bit tired of Opposition members are you? trying to blame others for their incompetence. Mr BEATTIE: No, I am just talking about As members would appreciate, there are statistics. The member should just shut up for a two major road proposals in my electorate which minute and listen; he will be educated. I know are of concern and interest to my constituents. In that no-one else has been able to educate him, fact, recently I attended meetings of the but I will persist in trying to do so. Herston/Kelvin Grove Residents Action Group. The president of that group, Anne Boccabella, The fact is that by the year 2006, if there is and her husband Peter, are keenly opposed to no new road, such as an airport motorway, the these road proposals. They are active members number of vehicles using that road daily will be of not only the Herston/Kelvin Grove Residents 51 700. Action Group but also the Bowen Hills Business Mr Hamill: Which road is that? and Residents Association and the People for New Ways not Freeways. Mr BEATTIE: This is Lutwyche Road. I wish to represent their views in relation to The current capacity is 40 000 vehicles these matters and raise a number of concerns. daily. In 2006, the carrying capacity will need to First, I turn to the issue of the city bypass. It is be 51 700—that is, 11 700 vehicles more than it important that we put this issue in context. can now carry. Having done a traffic analysis, the Brisbane City Let us look at other roads in the area. The Council initiated the city bypass proposal. That daily capacity of Gympie Road at Kedron is 8 September 1994 9434 Legislative Assembly

60 000 vehicles. If there is no new road by the I have also heard that estimates of the costs year 2006, there will be 74 200 vehicles wanting of such tunnelling are as high as $100m, which is to use that road. And the list goes on. For an extraordinary and prohibitively expensive example, the daily capacity of Sandgate Road at proposition. Clayfield is 30 000 vehicles. In the in the year Mr Hamill: The whole project was 2006, there will be 32 000 vehicles wanting to supposed to cost $60m. use it. Clearly, there is a problem. The issue is how we deal with that problem. Mr BEATTIE: That is right. As the Minister points out, when it was announced initially, the I will stick with the issue of the city bypass, project was to have cost $60m. As I understand because I want to deal with a couple of matters in it, the council is now talking about $100m for the particular in relation to it. The current situation is tunnel. If the tunnel will be that expensive, we that independent consultants are undertaking an should make the decision in the way it should be impact assessment study on the Brisbane City made so that my constituents are not left sitting Council's proposal for an inner-city bypass or a around wondering about what will happen. Valley bypass. An integral part of this process is community consultation. It is proposed that the There has been a degree of consultation impact assessment study will be completed by involving the local community and the Urban December 1994 or, at the latest, early next year. Renewal Task Force, for which I have a great deal That date is important to my constituents. of time. It performs an important role. It engaged David Engwicht to do some work and to provide In undertaking an impact assessment study some recommendations to the local community. into the provision of infrastructure such as this As part of this general discussion that has taken bypass, it is essential that we as a Government place, there has been a suggestion that there ensure that such studies are determined in the should be changes to the RNA showgrounds. shortest possible time frame. We must make sure that there is consultation while also ensuring that Another concern that I have is the impact the process is completed in the shortest that any alternative option—that is, the tunnel possible time frame. This is to ensure that there option and others—may have on the RNA is minimal disruption of the community, in showgrounds. An agreement was reached with particular to residents of the Bowen Hills region. the RNA over the previously preferred alignment, which had a minimal impact on the I visit quite regularly my constituents in grounds. I spoke to Sir Walter Burnett and he Bowen Hills. Only a couple of weeks ago, I visited was happy—as happy as anyone would a family who were concerned about whether the be—about the initial route. road is going ahead and it does not want the debate about this study to go on indefinitely; it Mr Hamill: I hear he's got a good sense of wants a decision by this year. The council is humour. seeking to incorporate an alternative design Mr BEATTIE: I, too, have heard that he which would see the construction of a tunnel has a good sense of humour. In discussions that under Bowen Bridge Road rather than an I have had with the RNA, it indicated that it was elevated structure, as was initially announced. strongly opposed to any disturbance of the RNA So it is now pressing for a tunnel. grounds which may ultimately force relocation. I The Brisbane City Council recently wrote to will put my position very clearly on the public the Minister for Transport requesting an record. I am totally opposed to moving the RNA extension of the terms of reference for the inner- from its current site. The reason for that is very city bypass so that the tunnel proposal can be simple. Not only is the Ekka a Brisbane considered. My concern is not about extending institution, it is such a success because of its the terms of reference to look at the tunnel location. For some time, we have heard about option. That is not my worry. However, what is of half-baked schemes for moving it—simply to concern is that the process—that is, IAS—may satisfy someone else's agenda. If we move the blow out and leave the residents of the area with Ekka to the outer areas of Brisbane, it would not an unacceptable sense of uncertainty. The attract the same number of people as it does members of the family about whom I am speaking currently. are senior citizens who have been in Australia for The RNA and the Ekka have become an some time. Because of their age and family institution in this State and city. In my view, it circumstances, I am concerned about them. I should stay where it is. In my discussions with Sir have spent quite a deal of time with them Walter Burnett, he has made it clear that he wants recently, and I have a great deal of sympathy for to stay there, as do the people of Brisbane. I their position. I do not want them to have to put believe that my constituents want the Ekka to up with this degree of uncertainty any longer stay exactly where it is. Today, I call on the than is absolutely necessary. Brisbane City Council to initiate discussions with Legislative Assembly 9435 8 September 1994 the RNA to ensure that its suggested alternative Any member would be concerned about alignment to the Valley bypass will not impact on road proposals in their area such as the airport the RNA grounds. I make my concern very clear motorway or the city bypass. If we are going to to this House. look at the alternatives and other strategies that I will conclude with two major points. As to David Engwicht and others have suggested, the the airport motorway—there were some only advice I give them is this: they have to be suggestions along the way that I had sought to practical, they have to be workable and they must move the alignment for that proposal—one that be able to be paid for—that is, they cannot send has never been approved by Cabinet. I want it us broke. At the end of the day, I am all for clearly on the record that, over a long time, I have looking at alternatives. We have to look at this argued that a 20-year-old idea for a northern from a community point of view. The residents in corridor—it was around when the Aztecs were my area are sick of being carved up by huge still in existence—should be changed to avoid trucks rumbling by. the suburb of Windsor, where houses were At the end of the day, what we are trying to resumed when the National Party was in solve here—whatever the outcome may be—is Government. It should go on the other side of the problem that our legacy from the previous Enoggera Creek and through the railway yards at National Party Government was one of appalling Mayne. planning that has meant that we have to confront Mr Ardill: Well done. these difficulties now. Let us have a little less politics from the Nats and the Libs on this issue. Mr BEATTIE: I accept that interjection. The Libs gave us Hale Street; the National Party That had nothing to do with the airport gave us a legacy of poor planning. Members motorway at all. My discussions with John Gralton opposite should accept their responsibility in that and members of the Department of Transport regard, and we should all work together towards went on over a two-year period. I know that the a solution. honourable member for Clayfield has made Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy Leader those suggestions outside this House, and no of the Liberal Party) (11.54 a.m.): It is with doubt he will take the opportunity to do so again pleasure that I rise to support the member for today. I want my position clearly on the record. Gregory, the Opposition spokesman on regional Mr Santoro: You pleaded guilty. transport. Mr BEATTIE: I did plead guilty. I plead Mr Hamill: And you support the member guilty to moving a 20-year-old northern corridor, for Brisbane Central. and in the same situation I would move it again Mr SANTORO: I take that interjection from tomorrow. That was nothing to do with the airport the Honourable the Minister. I do support much motorway. I argued successfully for the what of the member for Brisbane Central said. I movement of the old northern arterial so that any do not agree with much of what he says most of future proposal under any Government would the time, but I will support him at the outset and not go through the suburb of Windsor, and I will during the course of my speech. do so again. Honourable members opposite and, Some people argue that the Gateway indeed, the Minister would not be surprised to Bridge toll should be removed and that that note my participation in this very important would solve a lot of these problems. That is just debate, for it provides me with the opportunity to not correct. That is pie-in-the sky logic. Toll levels discuss in the House not only the major transport on the Gateway Bridge have increased only in infrastructure issues of our State but also major line with inflation, and less than inflation for some transport infrastructure proposals within my heavy vehicles. The toll on the Gateway Bridge electorate of Clayfield. has not been going through the roof and is not a disincentive to trucks using it. Discounts also It is interesting to note that in his second- apply for certain heavy vehicles. reading speech the Minister stated— Mr Hamill: Dangerous goods. "The prime objective of this Bill is to promote private investment in the provision, Mr BEATTIE: Exactly. I take the Minister's operation and maintenance of road interjection. Dangerous goods are a matter of transport infrastructure, consistent with considerable concern to my constituents. I do Government policy. It will assist this not want them going through my suburbs. Traffic Government and future Governments to on the Gateway Bridge increased by 9 per cent in provide road infrastructure from sources 1993 and has increased by 7 per cent to date in other than that of the Government." 1994. The bridge remains very popular. The Minister went on to say— 8 September 1994 9436 Legislative Assembly

"This Bill will provide the legislative Government in the provision of framework and the flexibility needed to infrastructure will be facilitated through two enable Governments to enter into main documents. agreements with companies for the In April 1992, the Premier during his provision of private sector finance for high- 'Queensland—Leading State' statement profile, stand-alone toll road/bridge projects clearly articulated that transport that will support economic, trade and infrastructure would be provided in the most regional development, while improving the efficient way through a combination of quality of life in our State. public and private sector provision of road, This legislation provides a consistent rail, port and airport infrastructure. policy framework and obligations on Following on from the Queensland Transport in relation to the 'Queensland—Leading State' document, development of franchised road proposals. Queensland Transport released in January Within this framework, Government can 1994 the Queensland Transport Policy enter into a road franchise agreement on Directions Statement (QTP). This document behalf of the State with a company for the is the Government's transport policy construction and/or maintenance and/or framework and will act as the policy operation of road transport infrastructure by foundation for actions across the Transport that company. Unlike the existing franchised portfolio." motorways legislation, the agreements will not be incorporated in this legislation but will Those were the words of the Minister at 8.35 be tabled in the House. This provides the a.m. on 4 August. By 12.30 p.m. on the same necessary flexibility to move quickly but day, when addressing the Association of without loss of transparency and Consulting Engineers luncheon, the Minister accountability." was in a more expansive mood when in his speech he said— Those words from the Transport Minister tell me that he and his Government are well and truly "The Government has plans for a committed to the construction of toll roads—in significantly larger and more effective public other words, forcing the users of roads to pay up- transport system along with a network of front for the cost of their construction. roads that keep our quality of life and standard of living intact. The network of I will not develop in this contribution the roads, which will be mainly funded by tolls, points arising from the question, "Whatever will support the economic, trade and happened to the Government's obligation to regional development of the region while provide road infrastructure through consolidated improving the quality of life of our suburbs." revenue sources?" However, I assure the Mr Hamill: It was a very good speech. Minister that that is a question often asked in the community. The community is becoming tired of Mr SANTORO: It was a very good speech, paying ever-increasing taxes and charges and because it was a very enlightening speech. What getting very little back from the Government in interests me even further is what the Minister the form of services, including transport went on to say in articulating the broad infrastructure services. infrastructure vision, that being— The Minister addressed this point in his "The key features of this network, speech to the Chartered Institute of Transport subject to the most stringent environmental Annual Seminar on 4 August this year when he impact assessments, are:"— said— and I commend the Minister for qualifying these "Recently, however, Governments suggestions— have found it increasingly difficult to provide "A study for a western bypass of suitable funding for necessary Brisbane linking the Ipswich Motorway with infrastructure. In recognition of this the Bruce Highway to the west of Mt Coot- infrastructure funding shortfall, the private tha." sector has shown increasing levels of Mrs Edmond: Hear, hear! interest in investing in public infrastructure." Mr SANTORO: I note the interjection in In the same speech, the Minister then went on to the form of "Hear, hear!" from the member for outline how the private sector could be involved Mount Coot-tha. I take it from that that she when he said— obviously favours that proposal. The Minister's "The opportunities for the private speech continued— sector to construct and/or enter into "An airport motorway linking Brisbane partnership with the Queensland with the airport. Legislative Assembly 9437 8 September 1994

An Eastern Corridor linking the Not only that—in the same answer to my Gateway Arterial with the Gold Coast, question, he admitted that a "traffic solution" will providing an alternative to the congested be necessary in my electorate. In other words, Pacific Highway. the Premier's insistence that a "no road" option A port road linking the Gateway Arterial be included in the consultation process is simply and the National Highway system to the Port a farce and a facade. of Brisbane. The Premier seems to have made up his Continued upgrading of the Logan mind that roadworks will take place, and what Motorway (to four lanes) the Pacific Highway both myself and my constituents are worried (to six lanes) and connections with the about is whether or not they will be confronted South East Freeway, and completion of the with a so-called "minor road option" similar to Miles Platting major interchange. Route 20 and Hale Street. Of course, we cannot forget the Premier's crass and unethical attempt Development of the Southern Bypass to steal from his Transport Minister the credit for route linking the Logan Motorway and making available the "no road" option a full two Gateway Arterial." weeks before the Premier came into my So there you have it—the Goss Labor electorate and made out that it was he, and not Government's grand transport infrastructure his Transport Minister, who was the benefactor in vision, unveiled by none other than the Minister relation to the "no road" option. upon whom all the blame for this vision is being In fact, it is despicable and indeed cheap heaped. However, Queenslanders will not be politics how, during recent times, all types of allowed to be deceived by the scapegoating that politicians have been getting around in my is being forced upon the Minister by those at the electorate and saying that they, and not the highest level of Government, including and Minister for Transport, have ensured that the particularly Premier Wayne Goss. This is a crucial community has been provided with a "no road" point. option. As I said, one of these people has been The question that arises here is: why would the Premier. It is clearly not true that he provided a Minister for Transport who obviously has the "no road" option. aspirations for higher office be so up-front with I have been very critical of this Minister in the promotion of the grand transport relation to this issue, particularly on the points infrastructure vision I have just outlined despite raised by the honourable member for Gregory its great unpopularity? Obviously—and I say this and the honourable member for Brisbane Central with all due respect to the Minister—he is being when they talk about consultation. The pushed very hard from the highest levels of consultation process in this issue has been Government, including and particularly the woeful, but this Minister, more than other people Premier. At the same time, the Premier has in Government, has actually listened to the sought to portray Mr Hamill as the person who people and he has absorbed the amount of has muffed the tollway issue and who is to blame concern that exists out there. It was David for causing so much concern and angst to the Hamill's office which, on Saturday, 13 August people in my electorate. The Premier is being 1994, provided the following assurances in an both misleading and mischievous when he tries article in the Courier-Mail— to convince the public that Minister Hamill is solely to blame for the airport tollway fiasco in "A spokesman for Mr Hamill said there which his Government now finds itself. were 'vastly more than three options' being considered in plans to upgrade road access I have already quoted the Minister for to Brisbane Airport. Transport's speech to the Chartered Institute of Transport where he clearly outlined the Premier's These would include a 'no-road' lust for tollways. And, of course, last week we option, a minor upgrade of existing roads, a had the Premier's admission, in answer to a major upgrade of existing roads and a question that I asked, that he has been briefed number of motorway options. by his coordinator-general in relation to airport 'The consultants have been shown a tollway proposals. The Treasurer, in answer to number of options to show them what the another question, in fact went on to say that the Government will want from them,' he said." Treasury had been conducting extensive In passing, that admission did justify and studies into how much revenue the tollway substantiate my publishing the leaked briefings would in fact take in. So the Premier has known that had in fact been given to consultants, all along about the airport tollway proposals which despite the fact that I was attacked by all and were eventually leaked by conscientious sundry for again leaking unreliable documents. whistleblowers, or maybe perhaps by some of the Premier's men, to embarrass the Minister. 8 September 1994 9438 Legislative Assembly

Those documents were confirmed in that to make available to the consultants and, in particular article. particular, to the local community, all the I give credit where credit is due. I go on information relevant to the proposed airport record in this place to say that it was David Hamill tollway and any other proposed roadworks; who provided the "no road" option to the and community, and it was the community which to finally arrive at a decision which is based fought hard for it. We should not have airy-fairy on local community opinions, politicians such as the Premier who just like to determinations and needs. come into electorates, as if they are the second In other words, we do not want Mr Goss, his coming, and say, "I have saved you." The Ministers or other members to come in, saying, Premier need not come into my electorate and "We are working for the community and listening apply the gloss and take credit which is not his. to you." Once the Goss Government listens to I now wish to turn in some detail to the the community, it totally and utterly ignores what specific infrastructure proposal commonly known the community says to them—unless, of course, as the airport tollway. I will not go into detail about a Labor backbencher is involved who can get a the manner in which the issue surfaced and the major piece of road shifted from one side of the Goss Labor Government's despicable efforts to creek to the other. Everything would be fine if hide its real intentions about the tollway from my everybody was given the same favoured electors. This part of the issue has been well and treatment as the member for Brisbane Central truly canvassed by myself and others within and received. outside of this place, much to the shame of the If Mr Goss and the Government are fair Government. Right from the outset, let me again dinkum about helping my constituents, they will stress in this place my total opposition and that of implement the specific requests of this motion, my constituents to the proposed airport tollway. which I believe are reasonable requests. If the community is to have genuine and informed The question which both myself and my input, Government must provide all of the constituents are asking is—is this road relevant information, including traffic surveys, necessary? To answer this question, my departmental working documents and road constituents need all of the information currently building proposals which have been made in the possession of the department and the available to the department and to Government. Goss Labor Government. This is one of the The community must also be involved in the legitimate and essential demands of the local drafting of the terms of reference for what must community and, in particular, the Airport be genuinely independent consultants. Motorway Action Committee, and I would invite the Minister to in fact give some reassurances in I can assure Mr Goss and his Government relation to this point. The community cannot that my constituents are totally unimpressed by have meaningful input into the consultative the process which has been undertaken by the process about to commence in relation to the Goss Government to date in relation to this issue airport tollway. In fact, a massive public meeting and they are waiting for a demonstrable change convened by AMAC on Sunday, 28 August, to of attitude by the Government. I see it coming protest against the Goss Government's from the Minister, but I do not think I can see it proposed airport motorway called for the coming from the Premier and a few of his other appointment of independent consultants and AWU cronies. the release of all relevant information. The The other related and important point is the motion carried by over 2 500 people who timing and the length of the consultation attended was very specific and called on Mr process. I believe that if the Government makes Goss, Mr Hamill and the State Government— available all of the relevant information to the to facilitate an extensive and genuine community and to the consultants, then three community based consultation process months would be sufficient time for the about the proposed airport tollway; community to be fully consulted and for Cabinet to consider the reports of the consultants and to ensure that consultants to be appointed then make a decision. My sources within the to undertake the consultations with the department and within Government tell me that community are genuinely independent; the Premier and his senior advisers are thinking to allow—and this is important—full about stretching out the process so as to community input into the determination of continue to politically compromise David Hamill, the consultants' terms of reference so that who clearly is one of the Premier's targets in this we do not have bogus terms of reference; whole sad and sorry tale. My sources also tell me that Mr Goss is very close to announcing the details of the consultants who are to carry out the Legislative Assembly 9439 8 September 1994 consultation. As I have said, it is important that Brisbane Airport should be developed and the local community have a say and input into the accessed from the North Coast Line near selection of the consultants. Toombul Shopping Centre. The corridor for Mr Hamill: Who told you this? that line lies between the existing east-west arterial and Schulz Canal. Those plans are Mr SANTORO: I will take the Minister's still on foot. The development of those links interjection. I cannot tell the Minister who told me are very much dependent upon the because he would probably instigate a CJC development of the airport terminal by the witch-hunt similar to the one that occurred on the FAC". poor unfortunate and, may I say, extremely conscientious, whistleblowers who did the I see real danger in this answer for residents original deed. So I urge the Premier and his living close to the Eagle Junction-Pinkenba line Government to get on with the consultation and I wish to express this to the Minister process in earnest, giving all the relevant today—and I would like the Minister to tell me and information to the community and making a my constituents if this is not right— because it decision that will allow residents in the affected could be possible that a big push may occur to areas to enjoy their Christmas. upgrade the existing Eagle Junction-Pinkenba line. This would change it from being a branch During recent months, and as a result of the line, which has primarily serviced the local airport tollway debate, talk about the construction passenger needs and the freight needs of the of a rail link to the Brisbane Airport has industrial estates beyond the residential areas, to resurfaced. This is an issue which is of great a major passenger and freight railway line. The concern to many of my constituents. In his effects of this possible change on the residential answer to a question in this Parliament on 4 amenity and serenity enjoyed by nearby August, the Minister referred to the report of the residents is obvious. I am personally opposed to Federal Airports Corporation titled "Federal such a change and will strongly promote the Airports Corporation: Brisbane Airport Master Schulz Canal option, and I urge the Minister to do Plan 1991". The Minister said— likewise. "I refer honourable members to this Mr Hamill: You are saying you support the report, which has been around since 1991. Schulz Canal option but don't support Pinkenba; Even the slower readers would have had a is that what you are saying? chance to look at it by now. It is the strategic plan for Brisbane Airport from the Federal Mr SANTORO: I support the Airports Corporation. I commend it to the reinstatement of the Eagle Junction-Pinkenba attention of members. In the report is a line as a branch line to service the residential detailed discussion about the future needs of the area, as was always the case, and infrastructure needs of the airport, the freight needs of the industrial estates of particularly figure 10.3, which shows very Eagle Farm and Pinkenba. I am on record as clearly the future expansion plans of saying that. Brisbane Airport. I draw to the attention of the Minister several The FAC considers that there needs to proposals—because we need to be constructive be not one, but two rail links developed in in relation to this debate—that have been put the future to Brisbane Airport, and those forward by constituents of mine who are being links are shown very clearly on that strategic affected by the airport tollway proposal. One is a plan. The first of those proposed links is to proposal by Mr Peter Dawson, who has written a handle future passenger movements with a brief paper of which, I believe, the Minister has station to be located in close proximity to the been made aware. It is titled "Who Designs Our new terminal that is being developed on site Cities?" That particular paper is the beginning of at present. Members should be aware that a concept developed by Mr Dawson that the new terminal should open for air traffic suggests that, when looking at roads, not only late next year. should we have road engineers involved in the design of that sort of infrastructure but we should The other proposed link is an airfreight also have a total residential and community link. The FAC proposes that in future there amenity concept adopted by the planners. For ought to be a loop off the Pinkenba line for the benefit of honourable members, I table that the facilitation of air cargo container document, which I am sure the Minister has movements in and out of the new airfreight seen. terminal that will be developed where the existing international terminal is located. The other document that I wish to table is another paper prepared by another constituent In 1981, the former Government made of mine, Mrs Denise Keim, within which she a decision that a future passenger rail link to concludes that there are great discrepancies with 8 September 1994 9440 Legislative Assembly the vision of the SEQ 2001 report, which else in Queensland at that time, there was no advocates that communities with a sense of appreciation of the separation of powers. There identity and place should be preserved. She was direct intervention by all Ministers in that goes on to suggest that the residential areas of Government in the operational activities of their Kedron, Kalinga, Eagle Junction, Wooloowin, portfolios. That is what preoccupied them. On Albion and Windsor are close to the communities every other front within that Government, they that the SEQ 2001 report seeks to develop. That were preoccupied with obscuring what they were report is very important, because it is a major really about as a Government. Whether it related infrastructure planning report. Mrs Keim goes on to law and order or any other portfolio, they were to rightfully conclude that the airport tollway about making sure that the people of proposal would destroy that planning vision of Queensland did not really know what they were SEQ 2001. I also table that paper by Mrs Keim. up to. They maintained a pretence and kept the It is terribly important that the consultation people of Queensland living in fear and process in relation to this issue be fair dinkum. It ignorance as much as possible. They certainly is also important that the Lord Mayor be pulled did not make the hard decisions. These pieces into line. Whilst the Lord Mayor seems to favour of legislation confront those very hard decisions. the Valley bypass and the Bowen Bridge Road The Bill before the House will provide proposal, which connects very neatly into the considerable flexibility in dealing with proposals airport motorway, he quite hypocritically says, "I for road franchise projects in this State. I intend am against the airport motorway." The Lord to highlight how this Bill will allow the Mayor cannot have it both ways; either he does Government to move quickly in finalising an not favour the whole of the airport motorway or agreement with a company for the provision of he favours the lot. The Lord Mayor speaks with a private investment in our road network. An forked tongue. Given his past training, that important aspect of planning for the future is surprises me. involving those companies and having a broader At the Committee stage, I would like to put involvement in ensuring that our road networks to the Minister a series of questions that have prosper. It is important to emphasise that this final been raised by my constituents. Those step in the process will be taken only after questions demand some specific answers. I extensive public consultation and stringent would be obliged if the Minister could continue environmental impact assessments have been the good mood of cooperation that he has completed in accordance with the requirements developed recently. of the State Development and Public Works Organization Act. Members may be assured that Time expired. the existing financial controls that already cover Mr FENLON (Greenslopes) (12.14 p.m.): It such arrangements will continue. is with pleasure that I rise to support the Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill. This is a The lack of long-term network and land use significant piece of legislation in the general planning in the past is causing today's major portfolio of legislation that this Government has difficulties for this Government. We now have to put in place to reform the transport system in find transport solutions, which inevitably means Queensland. This legislation will change the placing roads through outer-city areas, which planning mentality that existed under the almost overnight are turning into residential previous State Government prior to 1989, which developments, and/or trying to set up viable saw Brisbane still as a village, to one that will see public transport networks. Brisbane as a great city of the future. This The advantage of this legislation will be that, legislation will provide for the major transport only after Cabinet has given its approval to a road networks that the city will require. It is bold franchise route after the lengthy assessment enough to anticipate those transport needs, stage, the agreement can be finalised by the confront them directly and make the hard Minister without the requirement to have the decisions. agreement embodied in legislation. That is a rather lengthy process as required in the present Previous National and Liberal Party motorways agreement. This is not about Governments were not into making hard bypassing the community but about giving decisions; they were preoccupied with Parliament its say when developing the everything else but getting on with good rules—not after Government decisions have government in Queensland. In the Transport already been made. portfolio, they were preoccupied with making sure that the roads that were being built served Each motorway agreement has separate their cronies and their own members; that roads by-laws. There are currently three separate sets were built right up to the doorsteps of their farms. of by-laws that largely mirror each other. Rather They served their own mates. As with everything than continuing to add to the regulation burden Legislative Assembly 9441 8 September 1994 for each extension of the franchised road Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) networks, in this Bill it is intended to apply (12.22 p.m.): I rise to speak on the Transport provisions of the transport infrastructure Act Infrastructure Bill. Obviously it is an opportunity relating to State-controlled roads to franchised to raise matters of infrastructure planning that are roads and, where additional provisions are ongoing on the Sunshine Coast. I welcome the required, regulations applying to franchised opportunity to bring some very real concerns to roads will be made. the Minister's attention. As the Minister explained, the Bill sets the One concern that has arisen in the last few legislative framework for franchised road weeks relates to a letterbox drop from the agreements in the State and provides the consultants Ove Arup into the Yandina Highway necessary flexibility to move quickly in these upgrading. I would like to bring this to the matters without loss of transparency and Minister's attention, because it now appears that accountability. The Bill complements the growing the northern access ramps may not be included family of transport legislation and continues the in the new Yandina bypass. That is a major process of legislative review currently under way concern because it will affect the whole traffic under the Transport portfolio. flow within the town, particularly because the I would also like to comment further upon removal of the access ramps will force a lot more the reform processes introduced in the east-west traffic through the town. The town is infrastructure area of this particular Ministry. All not designed for east-west traffic. The Minister's members would be aware of the road reform staff would well know that there are only two project that was commenced in 1992 by the points of access across the town, because it is Minister. The road reform goal was to achieve divided by a railway line. Actually, it is divided by a best value for the roads dollar by doing the railway line and a river. Traffic from the east to the highest priority works in the most economic way west relies on two flood-prone rail underpasses. with at least 20 per cent productivity The Transport Department's previous plans for improvement by the end of 1995. the highway upgrading proposed a flood-free rail overpass to link the town. But, as a result of the I understand that there have already been new, proposed eastern corridor, that option has very substantial achievements towards that goal. been removed. We now have a dodger from the The benefits to Queensland are very real and consultants wanting people's comments very measurable. Industry is heavily involved in quickly—by 13 September—about the scrutinising the change. Over 70 years custom Government's unwillingness to put up the and practice in roadworks delivery has changed money for the northern access ramps. This is a dramatically. Local government and Queensland major concern. To amplify this concern and Transport's own work force have responded to because I do not think there is a great deal of the major changes, including much more local knowledge used in the matters that are competition. There remains much to be done referred to here, I will read the following section and we need the equipment to do it. The reforms from this flier— in the transport infrastructure legislation were driven by the road reform process, which "If accesses to and from the new identified the needs for many major reforms in highway near Bunya Road are not provided, the construction and maintenance of roads and all movements to and from the western side the management of the road network. of Yandina and its environs will need to cross under the railway line at Fleming The Bill continues this particular style of Street and access the new highway at the performance-based legislation which specifies proposed central interchange on the the objectives to be achieved by the legislation Yandina-Coolum road." in terms of desired outcomes. It is very directly consistent with the broad, commercial approach There are two underpasses. There is also a that this Government has undertaken to ensure very busy underpass at Ninderry Road with, I that, in whatever we are doing, whether it be believe, in excess of 2 000 daily traffic within the corporatised entities or within all movements. It is unacceptable if this is a covert instrumentalities of the Government, a strategic way of closing that particular intersection, corporate-style plan is in place, accountability because it is a point of access to a school. Maybe derives from having that corporate plan in place this is the consultants' way of getting around the and that the people of Queensland have a direct problem that has to be faced that the designs as input into it and are able to be cognisant of it they lay will increase traffic past the school. But, through its presentation in this place. to close that point of access is not acceptable. This is a fine piece of legislation in terms of Lack of northern ramps would greatly complementing what has already been increase the traffic flow past the school, but even occurring. I commend the Bill to the House. with the ramps there will also cause an increase in 8 September 1994 9442 Legislative Assembly traffic past the school. Obviously, the solution is something that must be taken into consideration to continue with a flood-free rail overpass as had at the planning stage. That bridge is actually always been planned through the middle of the beyond the scope of the new highway designs, town. but the planners will run into a problem. At the The consultation with Ove Arup was moment, high vehicles have to divert around via interesting. A number of times I said, "What North Arm to get under that bridge on the about the previously planned rail overpass in the highway. If high vehicles travelling on the middle of town?" The consultants looked very highway do not have a means to divert around blankly and said, "But we have never been North Arm, they will go straight through the briefed about that. We know nothing about that." middle of Yandina. So that does not solve the I asked them several times and—surprise, problem of heavy freight movement through the surprise—when the plans of all the options were Yandina. That is a real concern that I wish to bring released, I noted on the maps some very to the Minister's attention. interesting resumption lines drawn indicating that Another issue that I believe is worth there were plans in the central route of Ove Arup considering in this planning is that, if there is to for a rail overpass, even though the consultants be a new road corridor, how about we get the told me previously they knew nothing about it. southern interchange right. The present However, there was no rail overpass for all the Kulangoor interchange is a white elephant. I note other routes. I can only imagine, as some of the on the plans by Ove Arup that there is a proposal Queensland Transport Department officials in to link the traffic coming through Nambour and Gympie surmised when we were discussing this out of Parklands onto the highway with a point, that the costings for that overpass had northbound access via a roundabout just near been included in the central route, but the Kulangoor service station. The concern that apparently not in the other options. So, we have has been raised with me by heavy transport this problem. operators is that, if they are climbing up that hill Now the community has been told that and strike a roundabout on such an incline it will perhaps the northern ramps will not be part of the destroy their momentum up that hill which, of plan. I believe that we need much more course, is not very desirable on such a hill. That consultation than this flier. We need experts in would not be a good planning decision. the field who can inform the community about The solution is actually to provide a win-win traffic movements. When I asked the consultants situation. A little further south there is a partial to release their latest information and updated interchange known as the Nambour-Bli Bli figures about traffic movements for the different interchange. It is a pain in the neck to the locals proposed routes, they would not; they refused. because it puts more traffic back through the Those statistics are essential. This town is not north of Nambour. Here is an opportunity to get it designed for east-west traffic movement and it right. would be worse under the proposal and certainly As I have said, the Kulangoor interchange is a lot worse if those access ramps to the new a white elephant. If the Transport Department highway are not provided. wants to get it right, it should construct a full Another issue that has been mentioned at interchange on the Nambour-Bli Bli Road. That one public meeting but not does not appear in way, trucks would not be going up the slope any of the data that I have seen—— above the Kulangoor Service Station and the Mr Johnson: It's too hard for them. problem would be solved. Those members who are aware of the road that leads out of Nambour Miss SIMPSON: Well, there are some would know that it traverses fairly steep hills. So it very interesting questions that must be is not desirable for that road to take increased answered. After all this period of consultation traffic when there is a better solution available, and years of freezing property sales for the town and what I have suggested is the better solution. and putting people through a lot of heartache, we have to make sure that it is got right at this Currently, many trucks travel through point. Nambour. I have held preliminary discussions with representatives of Moreton mill—and, of To the north of Yandina at North Arm—I course, this would take a lot more suppose North Arm could be described as a discussion—which has indicated that, ideally, it hamlet—there is a bridge. I think it is School would like to remove its trucks completely from Road that crosses over the highway at that point. Nambour and transfer its cane onto its railway That traffic bridge does not provide a very high system with a collection point out of Nambour. clearance for vehicles travelling along the However, to do that would also require a highway. That is a problem because, according Nambour-Bli Bli interchange. This is an to the plans that I have seen, high vehicles will opportunity to fix a problem at Nambour. It is also not be able to get under that bridge. That is Legislative Assembly 9443 8 September 1994 an opportunity to avoid a bigger problem with the Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (12.35 p.m.): I proposed roundabout. I urge the Minister to take want to cover two matters in this debate. One this matter on board. It is a solution to an existing matter relates to the Gateway Arterial, which goes problem and a way to avoid a future problem. through my electorate, and the other relates to I would also like to raise the need for another some possible future roadworks on the Bruce access into Maroochydore. Obviously, in a Highway through Bald Hills, which is located in rapidly growing area such as my electorate, the the Aspley electorate adjacent to my electorate. amount of traffic has increased. To give members Firstly, I refer to the Gateway Arterial. As I an idea of the amount of traffic that is circulating said, basically that road divides my electorate in around the heart of Maroochydore, I say to them half. It is a barrier between some of the suburbs that it is about the same amount of traffic that within my electorate. Since the duplication of the travels down the Nambour bypass. Of course, Gateway Arterial, in common with most other because of traffic lights, traffic in the town is a lot residents of Brisbane, the people in my more stop start. Actually, there has been a great electorate have felt the effects of growth in the deal of community anger about the way the local area. With the duplication of the Gateway Arterial traffic system has been botched up. That comes, of course, increased traffic noise. For problem has been compounded by the placing quite some time, residents who live along the of the toll on the bridge. The reality is that, Deagon deviation have approached me about because of that toll, traffic has altered its direction their grave concerns about increasing traffic into Maroochydore. Therefore, the pattern of noise levels. Following their representations to traffic circulating into Maroochydore has me, the Transport Department was kind enough changed. Some big developments have to conduct noise surveys in the affected areas. I occurred, and I am not very happy with the way am pleased to say that, as a result of those some of those roads have been designed to surveys being carried out, it was found that there cater for those developments. However, the was a need for noise barriers on the Deagon reality is that we could alleviate a lot of the deviation down in the Brighton area. Recently, in pressure on Maroochydore Road, upon which excess of $150,000 worth of noise barriers were three schools are located. Two of those schools placed along the Deagon deviation to protect the are just off the main drag, but their access is via people in that area from the increasing noise. Maroochydore Road. We have the opportunity to Unfortunately, the noise barriers are not the take the pressure off Maroochydore Road, which prettiest things in the world and have created a is essentially a three-school zone and mainly sense of ugliness, but there are ways around residential area, and channel traffic into the that. I have spoken to some of the people Maroochydore CBD by providing far better involved in building those barriers and they have access. assured me that vines and trees can be planted There is great community support for access around them to break that ugliness. Certainly, from the south-east into Maroochydore. I know that is occurring at Deagon, which I am pleased to the Transport Department has raised concerns see. about the distances between other existing Recently, the Federal Transport Minister interchanges, but I know there are some announced that funding to widen the Gateway proposals that could overcome that. Those Arterial from the Deagon deviation through to the proposal need community input. However, there Bruce Highway from two lanes to four lanes had must be a way to overcome those technical been approved. Basically, that four-lane road will difficulties in order to take the pressure off be an extension of the two-lane road that exists Maroochydore Road and to get it right. currently, but it will go through Brackenridge. I I am very concerned because, basically, this have made representations to the Federal town is choking. Many people are turned off from member for that area, Gary Johns, to try to travelling into Maroochydore because of the ensure that, when that road is built, adequate traffic, even though Maroochydore has become funding is also made available for noise barriers the centre for many Government and essential to be put up. Rather than building the roads and services for the Sunshine Coast. I would support then, two years down the track, experiencing any moves for proper community consultation for problems with the community because of the input into getting this new access into traffic noise, the Federal Government should be Maroochydore. I urge the Minister to put installing the noise barriers as it builds the road. pressure on his department to make this problem Gary Johns has indicated to me that he will be at Maroochydore a priority and to take that speaking to the Federal Minister to try to ensure pressure off the community. It would certainly that adequate funding is given so that that can make it a more driver-friendly environment. be done. 8 September 1994 9444 Legislative Assembly

Can I say that, initially when the Gateway the estimates of growth are correct we Arterial was built, there was a fair amount of would probably need to widen the existing criticism of it. However, with the completion of road. the duplication, I can say that that road has been But suggesting we're pressing ahead of enormous benefit to the residents of with plans at the moment is a nonsense and Brisbane, particularly the residents within my to be horrified by the road is simply rubbish. electorate. People in my electorate who need to If we do anything we'll only be widening travel to the south side of Brisbane, whether that what presently exists, not creating a new is for sporting events, visiting friends or whatever roadway.' " the case may be, find it easy to travel on the Gateway Arterial. The flyovers have made it a very But that is not enough for Councillor Murray or for good, safe road, and I know that it is used to a the honourable member for Aspley, Mr John great extent by people within my electorate. Goss. Mr Hamill: It is a very good bypass road. Councillor Murray stated— Mr NUTTALL: I take that interjection from " 'I won't let the issue slide by without the Minister. It is a good bypass road. It is a good resistance and my office phone has rung bypass road because people can get on that hot with residents calling to voice their road and travel virtually to the Sunshine Coast or opposition.'" to the Gold Coast without having to stop at a John Goss stated— traffic light. I represent seven suburbs within my electorate. As I say, people in my electorate can "The problem is: where do we build the travel to the tourist areas in the north or in the new bridges?" south without having to stop at a traffic light. That He said that, if they were to construct a bridge is the result of solid, good road planning. upstream, then the highway would need to be straightened, which would bring it closer to I want to move on to an issue that was raised housing. He said that, if the other option is taken, recently in my local paper, the Bayside Star , of it will encroach on wetlands and mangrove areas. 31 August. The front page is headed, "Bunfight may be on the way over proposal". I understand We cannot have it both ways. We cannot that the honourable member for Aspley is not say, "We can't put it on this side because it will be well and is in bed. I do wish him a speedy too close to housing, and we can't put it on that recovery. It is unfortunate that he is not here, side because it will encroach on wetlands and because I want to take him to task over some of mangroves." We have to make some sort of the comments in that article. I also want to take to decision. We are talking about future planning. task Councillor Keith Murray, the Liberal According to the Department of Transport councillor for the ward of Bracken Ridge. They officials to whom I spoke, we are not talking about are simply jumping onto the bandwagon, and doing anything in that area for the next 10 to 15 they are scaring the residents of the Aspley/Bald years. However, we have seen front-page Hills area. Their statements are unfounded. headlines reporting that the State Opposition spokesman for housing, planning and urban The figures supplied by the Department of transport and Councillor Murray are saying that it Transport predicted that there would be massive is imminent. All those types of allegations do is increases in population growth in the district, with put the fear of God into the residents of those some 142 000 vehicles expected to use Gympie areas. Such fears are unfounded. Road in the Bald Hills area. Currently, it is a four-lane highway. There are two bridges across As an elected representative, whether at the river. That simply will not cater for the council or State Government level, surely it is not movement of transport in the years to come. The one's responsibility to put the fear of God into Department of Transport advised the city council one's constituents. This action flows from the that in time we will need to use some of the land Federal Liberal Party. There are no alternatives for future roadworks. We are not talking about a mentioned in this press release. I have spoken to new road; all we are talking about is widening the John Goss and Keith Murray, and they have not existing road. said what the alternatives are. They have never given us any other options. They have simply In that newspaper article, the Minister was said, "We don't want it to go ahead. We don't reported as saying—and quite correctly— want it to happen. It is lunacy. We shouldn't let it " 'There are no current plans for the proceed." It is typical of the Opposition to say, road widening and there certainly isn't any "Don't do it." funding allocated for it . . . Mr Ardill: They are knockers. We've simply responded to a council Mr NUTTALL: I will take that interjection request for possible future use of the area. If from the honourable member; they are knockers, Legislative Assembly 9445 8 September 1994 because they do not come up with the solutions. traffic noise that they have been enduring for If they are going to criticise, they should come up years. It will also improve the safety of this section with an alternative. But to simply say "We should of road not just for residents but for all motorists not do anything" is not the answer; it is not the using the David Low Way. option. The Government is currently facing There will also be a major upgrading of Hilton problems in relation to its planning for future Terrace at Noosaville and Tewantin. Quite simply, roads because when the Opposition was in this section of road is worn out. I have received Government it took the easy options and it did many complaints regarding the unsafe and rough nothing. We could take that option, do nothing condition of Hilton Terrace, with some motorists and let the City of Brisbane choke, which is complaining of vehicle damage. This road breaks basically what would happen. But we have to be up badly after rain and, after the recent wet more responsible and we have to do something season, Hilton Terrace has deteriorated to the about it. point at which it is just worn out. I compliment the I know that the answer is not to continue to staff of the Gympie office of the Transport build roads. That is not what is being put forward Department and the Minister on these by the Minister, either. If we are going to build roadworks. new rail lines and corridors for buses, we still need land. Rail lines will still make a lot of noise. I now move on to raise issues that are of When the Minister said that we were going to fix concern to me and to many of my constituents. up the line to the port, we were criticised by Much has been said about the Sunshine residents in the area who said, "You are going to Motorway by people on all sides of politics. cause more noise in our area." However, if we However, I will draw to the attention of the House were to build new roads, that would also cause some of the problems associated with the more noise in the area. motorway since the opening of Stage 2 and the Emu Mountain Road connection to Eumundi As the population continues to increase, we Road. have to enable people to move from point A to point B in a reasonable time. The proposal being The $1.50 toll being charged is, I believe, a put forward in this legislation will do that. It will most iniquitous and unjust imposition on all of give us the flexibility and the right the people of the Sunshine Coast. The coalition options—putting in ring-roads and taking traffic is committed to the abolition of tolls on the out of the CBD area—so that the residents of the Sunshine Motorway when we win the next inner suburbs of Brisbane have an enjoyable election. place in which to live. We want that to happen. To Mr Hamill: Where is the money coming say "No, you shouldn't do this and that", as the from? Opposition does, is not the answer. The only answer is good legislation that will allow us to put Mr DAVIDSON: We will produce the in place the proper infrastructure to provide for policy. This road will then be a road for all of the future growth. people of the Sunshine Coast, not just those who can afford the overpriced toll that has been Mr DAVIDSON (Noosa) (12.47 p.m.): I imposed on motorists. take the opportunity of participating in this debate today to bring to the attention of the The Minister should be aware that because Minister and the House the pressing need not of the $1.50 being charged on the Maroochy just for transport infrastructure but also for River Bridge, and with no exit off the motorway at associated roadworks to overcome problems in the Maroochy River Bridge for people accessing the electorate of Noosa. the Sunshine Coast airport or for those motorists travelling south, traffic is being forced through At the outset, I recognise that major works are programmed for this year. My constituents in the residential streets of Coolum. Motorists using the Yaroomba and Point Arkwright areas are the motorway from the northern section are avoiding the toll at the Maroochy River and absolutely delighted that the David Low Way will avoiding the distance they have to travel once be upgraded from Warran Road to Mona Vista they have crossed the Maroochy River Bridge to Drive at Coolum, Point Arkwright and Yaroomba. access the airport. Because motorists are Many residents and community organisations in avoiding the toll and they will not travel the extra the Yaroomba and Point Arkwright areas have distance back through Bli Bli, they are rat-running been lobbying Governments for almost a decade through Coolum via the Coolum-Yandina Road for funding to upgrade this noisy and dangerous and the South Coolum Road. Residents of both section of road. These works are being carried of these streets have had to suffer major out in conjunction with the Maroochy Shire increases in the volume of traffic on their streets Council. As I said, residents in this area are as a result of motorists avoiding the toll. delighted. Firstly, the asphalt surface will reduce 8 September 1994 9446 Legislative Assembly

In a region where tourism is the lifeblood of women for the installation of emergency the local economy, these traffic snarls caused by telephones on the Sunshine Motorway and people trying to get to the airport from the particularly on Emu Mountain Road. northern end of the Sunshine Coast are a major Eumundi Road itself, as the feeder road for cause of frustration and anger. Tourists and Noosa, has experienced an enormous increase locals are being forced to travel through back in traffic since the opening of Stage 2 of the streets or pay exorbitant tolls and cross the Sunshine Motorway. This is causing enormous Maroochy River twice in order to get to the traffic problems in the industrial area at coast's major airport. This is a ridiculous situation Noosaville. On checking with Queensland and one which no Government should ever get Transport's Gympie office, I am advised that there away with. Just in case the Minister thinks that are no works planned in the next three years for the furore over the toll road fiasco is dying down the Eumundi Road or the industrial estate. I am on the Sunshine Coast, in particular the unable at this time to obtain up-to-date traffic electorate of Noosa, let me remind him that the counts since the opening of the Sunshine local residents are still angry and have not Motorway, but I assure the Minister that there has forgotten the lies of his Government. been an enormous increase in traffic usage on I recently raised the issue of the failing the Eumundi Road. I have received many surface on the Emu Mountain Road, and I am complaints from business people in the area who pleased the Minister, his department and the state that their customers can just not get out of Sunshine Coast Motorway Company rectified their businesses' driveways due to the constant that. I advise the Minister that the remedial work stream of traffic. which has been done has been effective, and I have received no complaints since this work was The intersections at Beckmans Road and, completed. However, a major concern to me is more importantly, Rene Street and Goodchap the fact that there has still not been a decision on Street are becoming congested and motorists whether compensation is payable to motorists are forced to take their lives into their own hands who suffered damage to their vehicles because when forced to negotiate the intersections. In of the previous, appalling standard of this road. the planning stages of the Sunshine Motorway, it is obvious that little attention was paid to the On completion and opening of the Emu problems created by pouring all this traffic from Mountain Road, I raised in this House the Stage 2 into Noosa. Pedestrians take their lives problems which had been created with the into their hands as there are no pedestrian increase in traffic using Eumundi Road to travel crossings on Eumundi Road. The Lutheran to Noosa and further north. The Minister wrote to school has become a nightmare for parents and me on 13 July and suggested that a decision students, who are experiencing major delays in would be made on 27 July as to whether any entering and exiting the school grounds in the compensation would be payable by the mornings and afternoons, although a Schoolsafe Sunshine Coast Motorway Company, the zone and a school crossing have recently been contractors or the department. I ask: is that installed. In the short term, it is essential that a decision any closer? Many people are roundabout be constructed at Rene Street to complaining to my office very regularly. A few enable a safe option for motorists who use solicitors are involved in this matter, and they Eumundi Road. have suggested to me that they intend to take a class action against the Department of Transport. It is a legacy of this Government and the previous member that business houses and their It is of major concern to me that the customers were left in the cold and forced to intersection of Emu Mountain Road and negotiate dangerous roads and suffer major Eumundi Road was a cheap and, dare I say, delays because of the total lack of any shoddy job. This intersection has been the consultation with the business community. scene of too many accidents. I find it is most When designing Stage 2 of the motorway, the dangerous at night, because there is absolutely previous member and the Queensland Labor no lighting, and I believe that motorists have Government should have ensured that its route driven straight through the intersection to find and associated infrastructure properly directed themselves heading bush before they knew it. I traffic into Noosa and did not just dump it in the believe Queensland Transport should address middle of an industrial estate and business this issue immediately and ensure the safety of district. This lack of planning and consultation all people who use this road. This area creates with the business community is a disgrace, and many dangerous situations because of a service one of which the State Government, the station in the immediate vicinity, and it is a 100 previous member and the Transport Department kilometre per hour single-lane road. This road should not be proud. I am presently preparing a must be upgraded with appropriate signage and lighting. I have also had many requests from Legislative Assembly 9447 8 September 1994 submission on this disgraceful situation and will road has opened, and there is no doubt that it forward it to the Minister as soon as possible. has brought enormous benefits to the residents Many people in the Noosa electorate were and business community of Cooroy, I have led to believe that this construction of Stage 2 of received many complaints about the noise the Sunshine Motorway included the generated from traffic on this bypass road. construction of an Eenie Creek arterial road. My Last year I made representations to the advice is that the Eenie Creek arterial road is not Transport Department's Gympie office on behalf even on Queensland Transport's five-year plan, of residents in the Overland Drive area of Cooroy despite being detailed on original, publicly and was able to achieve noise reduction fencing released plans of the Stage 2 construction. With along the bypass road. I also achieved the the identified need of a hospital in the Noosa construction of a micro-asphalt surface on this area and a subregional shopping centre, it is section of the bypass road to further reduce essential that the Eenie Creek road is planned to noise for residents in the immediate area. But cater for the enormous amount of traffic that has further north the rough bitumen surface is laid, been generated by the motorway and will be and I am receiving many complaints from generated by the hospital and shopping centre. residents about the noise generated by It is the lack of basic infrastructure planning that vehicles, especially heavy vehicles, on this makes a mess of communities and destroys the surface. At the time, I believe the Minister made a lifestyle which people have come to expect from statement that this road was completed $3m an area such as Noosa. I will remind the Minister under the estimated cost, so obviously funding that the previous National Party Government had was available to ensure noise reduction on this planned for the construction of the Eenie Creek northern section as well. I have had meetings on road in the construction of the new eastern site with officers of the department's Gympie route, and many people were led to believe that office, and I believe it has conducted noise this Government had planned for the testing in the area, but as yet I am not aware of construction of the Eenie Creek road as part of the results. Stage 2 of the Sunshine Motorway. I have heard the Minister state many times in The other road that I would like to bring to the House the problems that he allegedly the attention of the House and the Minister is inherited from the previous Government about Edward Street, Sunshine Beach, which is a noise on roads in the Brisbane area. It amazes narrow-gutted, dangerous and almost worn-out me that the Minister and his department are still stretch of road on the David Low Way which is in constructing roads in the State of Queensland desperate need of upgrading. Residents living which create major noise concerns and create on this road are taking their lives in their hands problems for residents who live in the immediate accessing their homes. I believe that the Hill vicinity of them. As I understand it, the micro- Street intersection on the David Low Way and on asphalt surface reduces road noise by at least 20 this stretch of road is the most dangerous per cent. I have also received complaints from intersection in the Noosa electorate. Residents residents in the south-west Coolum area about in this area were absolutely dismayed when this noise being generated from traffic on the stretch of road was not upgraded in the works Sunshine Motorway. I attended a meeting program recently carried out on the David Low recently of residents from Centenary Heights Way as a result of funding from the motorway Road who are complaining about the noise company for the upgrading of sections of the generated since the opening of the motorway. I David Low Way and Burgess Creek bridge. believe monitoring tests have been carried out, Popular opinion in my electorate is that there has and I am preparing a submission on behalf of been no real decrease in traffic using the David these residents so that the Minister's department Low Way since the opening of Stage 2 of the can address the problems they are experiencing. motorway, and some people claim that there has The David Low Way at Peregian is another actually been an increase of traffic generated by source of many complaints. When this section of the growth in the Noosa region and the the David Low Way was resealed, it was done continued popularity of Noosa as a tourism only to the Noosa Shire border, and residents in destination. the southern section of the road in the Maroochy Another problem about which I am receiving Shire are constantly complaining to my office many complaints in my electorate is road noise. about the noise on this road. After I received Old road surfaces and increased traffic are many complaints about a particular bump in this causing severe noise problems for residents section of road, I had a meeting on site with an living on these roads. I would like to bring to the officer from the department's Gympie office, and attention of the House the situation on the hopefully that problem will be addressed in the Cooroy bypass road that has arisen since the next month or two. The noise the residents are opening. While people are very happy that this suffering from this section of road is impacting 8 September 1994 9448 Legislative Assembly severely on their lifestyles, and the department Mr Beattie: Get on with it, Davo! should micro-asphalt seal this section as soon as Mr DAVIDSON: I hope the honourable possible. member liked that one. As I was saying before The Maroochy Shire Council has completed lunch, it is good to see the Minister's its flood mitigation studies in the Coolum area department, particularly in my electorate— which and constructed a bund wall to ensure that involves the Gympie office of his department—is residents do not suffer the problems with going to release its three-year plans for flooding they experienced in 1992. It has been roadworks that are to be constructed in not just brought to my attention by both council and my electorate but all electorates. I think this will residents that the Stumers Creek bridge is a really help people living in those areas where major problem in restricting the flow of water in there is a need for improved roads because it will high rainfall periods. It is of great concern to many give them some indication of the delivery time of of the residents that this bridge could cause a those expected roadworks. It will also help the repeat of the flooding of two years ago, and I will local authorities and councils such as the Noosa be preparing a submission with the help of council to plan roadworks and associated council residents and community organisations to bring works that dovetail with the Transport this matter to the Minister's attention. Department's works. I look forward to those plans Another issue I would like to bring to the being released; I believe that they should be Minister's attention is the issue of safety on many released some time this month. I think that is a of the roads in the Noosa electorate. As I said great initiative by Queensland Transport. before, with the enormous growth in population I just want to touch lightly on some future and tourism, traffic has increased dramatically on needs that I see in my electorate and for the most of the major roads in my electorate. The Sunshine Coast as a whole. One is the Tewantin shopping centre is one area that is extension of Emu Mountain Road as a bypass dangerous for many elderly citizens who access road for the whole Noosaville/Tewantin area the shops and businesses as part of their connecting back into the Noosa-Cooroy Road day-to-day lives. Although there is one simply because the traffic at the moment is being pedestrian crossing at one end of the shopping funnelled down Eumundi Road into the centre, elderly people are frightened to use the Tewantin CBD retail area. I think it is essential that crossing because of the heavy traffic flow. for the long-term we have a road built as an Gympie Terrace in Noosaville is another road extension of Emu Mountain Road right around about which I receive many complaints from the western side of Tewantin linking back into residents. There is no pedestrian crossing in Tinbeerwah Road. place, and that has caused many concerns. Also for the longer term, I would like to raise Noosa Heads Post Office is also of major concern the need for a light rail service connecting to me, and I have received many complaints from Caloundra right through to Cooroy. As the residents accessing the post office, shopping Minister is aware, the David Low Way is currently centres, bowls club and CES office of the danger carrying enormous loads of traffic and the they experience in attempting to cross this road. Sunshine Motorway traffic is increasing there by I have received many complaints about the the week. I believe that a future light rail link from Minister's announcement at the Cooroy bypass Caloundra to Cooroy would take pressure off opening of the planning for a Noosa-Cooroy link these roads and alleviate a lot of the traffic road. I have today presented a petition to the pressures. Parliament objecting to such a future road. The Mr Palaszczuk: This must be a great Minister has agreed to meet with the residents of speech. You have almost a full House. Cooroy this evening, and I will not pre-empt that Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will meeting by raising the issue in this debate today. not interject from other than his correct seat. I thank the Minister for accepting the invitation to meet with my constituents and me this evening. Mr DAVIDSON: It certainly must have been a good speech before lunch; I have got In the last 12 to 18 months, there has been everyone in the House. much talk about three-year plans and five-year plans being produced and made available to local Dr Watson interjected. governments and members. Mr DAVIDSON: I just cannot understand Sitting suspended from 1.01 to 2.30 p.m. for what reason they would be here other than that, unless the member knows something that I Mr DAVIDSON: I now appreciate how do not know. If long-term planning is put in place difficult it is for cricketers such as Allan Border for a light rail link connecting Caloundra and when they go to lunch on 93 and come back at Cooroy, I believe that would take enormous 1.40 with seven to go to reach a century. loads of traffic off existing roads such as the Legislative Assembly 9449 8 September 1994

David Low Way and the Sunshine Motorway. Sunshine Motorway and the way the costs were With Noosa, indeed the Sunshine Coast as a to be allocated. It was interesting to hear the whole, being a popular tourist destination with member for Noosa speaking today about the fact many attractions from Caloundra to Noosa that that there is a toll on the bridge over the people like to visit and take their families to, I Maroochy River which is driving people away, think in the longer term a rail link would certainly, around through Bli Bli. For the information of the as I said, relieve the pressure on those roads. member, who does not seem to appreciate the Mr Robertson interjected. fact, the National Party, when it decided to build the tollway—and this was one of the principal Mr DAVIDSON: We have got plenty of reasons we opposed it—was going to put the koalas in Noosa; we are very fortunate that they entire toll on that bridge. That came about reside mostly in national parks and State forests because the then member for Maroochy, I think it and so on and that they have been well catered was, had a great say in the Cabinet. for in advance. I would not envisage that there would be too many problems with that issue in Mr Hamill: The member for Nicklin, it was. some of those future corridors. I believe the Mr ARDILL: That is what it was. He was a National/Liberal Government of the past former Liberal member, incidentally, similar to the reserved all those State forests and national member for Noosa. He seemed to have a greater parks and it will not be an issue at the time any say in the upper echelons of the then National new corridors are required. I would like the Party than did the then member for Cooroora Minister to take that on board. As I said to the who happened to be the father of the present Minister earlier, I look forward to our meeting member for Maroochy. tonight. I know that the constituents from my Mr Hamill: They never took him seriously. electorate who will be attending that meeting are hoping for some positive outcomes. Mr ARDILL: They did not take Mr Simpson seriously. They were putting the entire toll on the Debate interrupted. bridge over the Maroochy River. We opposed that and I drew the attention of the Roads CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMMISSION Minister of the day, who happened to be the Deputy Premier, to the fact that what he was Report putting forward was not what he thought he was Mr SPEAKER: Honourable members, I putting forward, yet he still did not get the have to advise the House that today I received picture. However, it became quite obvious that from the Chairman of the Criminal Justice there was a racket being worked to protect the Commission a report of an investigation into the then member for Nicklin, who was not terribly Cape Melville incident. popular in that particular area. Mr Hamill: He was the Finance Minister; TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE that is where half the problem was. AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2) Mr ARDILL: That is right. That is an Debate resumed. example of the sorts of ducks and drakes that were being played with toll roads so, naturally, we Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the member were not terribly enamoured with the idea. The for Archerfield. point is that the cost is not now imposed entirely Dr Watson: Your speech will drive on the people on the north shore of the everybody out of this place. Maroochy River, it has been correctly placed on Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (2.36 p.m.): I will the Mountain Creek section of the road to endeavour to do that. The principal objective of ensure that everyone who uses that tollway pays this Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill is to a fair share. bring about a uniform set of obligations and I have come to accept toll roads for a number powers concerning tollway facilities under the of reasons. Firstly, the provision of tollways Transport Infrastructure Act instead of having allows important alternative roads to be built them fragmented under three different Acts and many years ahead of the time when finance agreements. The Gateway Bridge was built as a would be available to build them under normal tollway, as were the Logan Motorway and the financing arrangements. Secondly, they are a Sunshine Motorway. I must say that I opposed source of revenue that can be recycled into more the construction of roads as tollways when the roadworks in Queensland. Thirdly, they are one National Party made these decisions. One of the way of bringing home to the private motorist that reasons for taking a jaundiced view of the there are costs involved in motoring beyond their Sunshine Motorway was the obvious patronage visible costs of petrol and parking. and unfairness that we saw in the building of the 8 September 1994 9450 Legislative Assembly

In time to come, with the technology now Quite clearly, tollways are not simply being used becoming available and with the gridlock in Queensland; they are a worldwide situation looming on the South East Freeway phenomenon, and investors are quite happy to and many other roads, it may be necessary to use them. impose a toll on all those major roads at some I still have misgivings about tollways, point, such as a bridge or subway that all vehicles however; but in the present climate there is no encounter. This could be done by an electronic doubt that the Minister has to explore this option. device that clocks every vehicle passing that There is little doubt that we will see much more point. While most of us would not see this use of this option around Brisbane and situation as desirable, it could be sooner rather south-east Queensland. I have a street directory than later when this occurs on the South East in my office that shows all the proposed major Freeway and a number of north-side arterials if road schemes around Brisbane which were rural residential motorists cannot be persuaded devised under the National and National/Liberal to adopt public transport as their mode of Governments but which they failed to act on transport. during their time in office. In many cases, the Already, Brisbane residents are restricted Brisbane City Council was instructed to reserve every morning at all access points onto the those corridors and to prevent building on them. South East Freeway to make way for out-of-town I know of landowners who were made aware of motorists. This restriction applies to hundreds of these decisions. One case in point was the so- motorists who would otherwise have to drive called secret southern bypass, which will link the considerable distances around Toohey Forest Gateway Arterial to the Logan Motorway, thus and Mount Gravatt to avoid using the freeway. completing the total eastern and southern sector I did not foresee a situation where I would around Brisbane from the Bruce Highway to the ever look kindly on tollways, because of the Cunningham Highway. delay factors involved; but then again, as an I congratulate the Minister and totally environmentalist, I had no doubt that by 1994 support him in his attempts to bring the Queensland would have had a fuel tax as a metropolitan area up to world standard by disincentive to wasteful use of petroleum, to building this outer ring-road before the city reduce emissions and to provide funds for road strangles. I look forward confidently to a decision maintenance. Incidentally, I have just been on the completion of that great circle ring-road via looking at a car in the forecourt of Parliament the western bypass, which has been proposed House that will reduce emissions. I hope to see for many years to run from the Warrego Highway further development of that particular vehicle. to the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane. There is no doubt that tollways are financially The western bypass was always stalled by viable, despite what has been said in the House. vested interests, resulting in traffic being forced I am indebted to the member for Mount Coot-tha onto western suburbs streets, which has caused for a publication, the Australian Business no end of aggravation for people in that area, Monthly, which states— representatives in this House and those people "The $1 billion worth of toll roads built who represent them in the council. Tollways will in NSW over the past four years have make this bypass possible, and the Transport proved to be a licence to print money for a Minister, David Hamill, and his department should select group of investors who were smart be congratulated on their dedication to the task enough and patient enough to see the in hand. potential. Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (2.46 p.m.): I rise . . . to speak on the Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill (No. 2) and recognise that this For the private sector, the toll Bill is concerned mainly about toll roads. As a represents a revenue stream which can be member on the Sunshine Coast, I feel impelled used as an asset base from which to launch to take this opportunity to once again bring to the other projects. attention of the Minister and the Government the . . . feelings of the vast majority of residents on the Toll road operating companies now Sunshine Coast about toll roads in general and recognise that a 25-year lease of a road the Sunshine Coast Motorway in particular. I will complete with a revenue stream from tolls return to that in due course. provides a viable and tangible asset to use It was actually in the second-reading speech as a publicly-listed equity vehicle. The toll on the Transport Operations (Passenger road debt can also be hived off into Transport) Bill where the Minister made the infrastructure bonds for high net-worth comment that more and more of the total number individuals who need a tax shelter." of transport trips are cross-regional, and this Legislative Assembly 9451 8 September 1994 makes them more easily accomplished at present The current road, which we still call the new by private motor vehicle than by public transport. Bruce Highway, is rapidly reaching the stage I believe that this comment, even though it was where the traffic virtually comes to a standstill far addressed in a speech for another Bill, is very too often. This is mainly at times when it is very relevant to this Bill. congested, when people are endeavouring to The Minister has indicated here and commute either to or from Brisbane. This is elsewhere the changing patterns of transport in particularly apparent before and after work during Queensland and the fact that we need to the week and on long weekends and holiday encourage people to use public transport. It is periods. This must be addressed sooner rather the inability of Governments, not only in than later. Queensland but elsewhere, to provide public I have said before that perhaps there is an transport that is acceptable, reliable and opportunity here not to simply duplicate roads convenient that has brought upon these very only but to consider a bold departure from same Governments the requirements to provide previous norms into the challenge of alternative more and more roads. These roads are required, means of transport. I refer, of course, to the of course, to accommodate the huge increase in utilisation of the rail network. As I have claimed the number of motor cars for our transport before, if a corridor was set aside between needs. I believe this is one of the fundamental Landsborough and the new Sunshine Coast challenges of the Government— to put into university site and that corridor was able to practice ways and means whereby people will be eventually accommodate both road and rail, we discouraged from using cars as much as they do, would have an opportunity of addressing two particularly in urban areas, and encouraged not problems at once and using some vision while only to utilise public transport but to put to better doing so. use the great tracts of land that we set aside for I have suggested previously that our roads and highways, including freeways and unless this corridor is allocated and marked now, toll roads. we will run into difficulties, not only with the land Huge areas of space in our cities are taken being alienated for other purposes but also by up by bitumen. This space could be used far having people taking up residence nearby and more productively for many other activities—be subsequently not wanting a road or a rail corridor they sporting or social. In addition, all houses and so close to their residence. Both of those businesses that are near busy roads suffer from problems can be avoided. As recently as this noise, pollution and loss of visual amenity. week, there have been discussions between Added to this we have safety considerations, members of the Caloundra City Council and particularly for children and older people, parking another of the Government Ministers. Those pressures and the general loss of amenity of our discussions engaged in a very proper search for urban communities. an alternative site for the proposed I am not convinced that this Government has Landsborough sewage treatment works. This enthusiastically addressed this particular alternative site could, in fact, be in the vicinity of problem. Because of this, we are continually where land should be put aside for this corridor. planning to widen existing roads or allocate That points quite graphically and urgently to the corridors for new roads. This Bill is about just need to make those plans right away. I ask the such a challenge. In high-growth areas such as Minister that this planning process be initiated. the Sunshine Coast, even with vast I will now turn to the subject of toll roads. In improvements in public transport and changes in the past I have felt that toll roads do have their public perceptions about the use of private place in a modern urban community. However, I motor vehicles in urban areas, we will still need am reassessing my philosophy on toll roads in new corridors for future roads. that I now question whether toll roads are really I would like to take this opportunity to the correct approach for Governments to use to reiterate to the Minister the need for another provide new roads. The principle of user pays, of corridor leading to the Sunshine Coast and course, seems to attract some support. But why another through the Sunshine Coast or around is the provision of transport any different from the Government's responsibility to provide the established urban areas. We have heard education, health and law and order? Those are much discussion in recent months about the services that virtually all of us use all of the requirements of travelling between Brisbane and time—and so it is with roads. Why should roads the Gold Coast. I believe it is not far away when be separated as a different kind of Government we will be having similar discussions and debates service and the user pays principal apply? I am about duplication of roads to and around the not convinced that this is altogether reasonable. Sunshine Coast. Everybody uses roads. Everybody should be 8 September 1994 9452 Legislative Assembly contributing. Roads should be seen as a service avoiding using the State Government's tolled to the whole community provided by the main roads. Government and paid for by the whole This damage comes in many forms. It comes community from the normal revenue sources of in the form of congestion resulting from too many Government. vehicles on these local roads. It takes the form of We have heard a lot this week, of course, extra wear and tear on these local roads because about the net debt situation of the Queensland heavy trucks are using them instead of using the Government. One could say, however, that State Government's tolled main roads. This is when Government debt, or that which ought to leading to a shortening of the life of these roads, be accounted for as straightforward Government which brings an added cost to Maroochy Shire debt, is moved off the Budget into various residents in particular as their local roads have to motorway companies, perhaps the picture that is be repaired earlier. There is also the as yet being painted by the Treasurer is not as rosy as unmeasured social impact of all of that extra traffic he would have the Queensland public believe. on local roads. Of course, there is an impact in These remarks, of course, are aimed at toll relation to safety. Where there is congestion, roads in general. I am sure that many people there is impatience. Where there is impatience, would make a compelling case for the there is obviously a danger to drivers, construction of toll roads in some situations. In passengers and pedestrians. my opinion, the jury is still out on that subject. I support this initiative by the Maroochy Notwithstanding that, the positioning of the Shire Council. The findings of this report will Sunshine Motorway has certainly annoyed and almost certainly add weight to the argument that disadvantaged most residents of the Sunshine the tolls on the Sunshine Motorway should be Coast. The rate of avoidance of the toll plazas abolished. after all this time is evidence of that. People are I would like to take this opportunity to thank voting with their steering wheels. the shadow Minister for Transport, the This particular road is, from an engineering honourable member for Gregory, for visiting my point of view, a very good road. It is the sort of electorate and inspecting at first-hand the road that people on the Sunshine Coast would Sunshine Coast Motorway and for addressing expect to be provided from the taxes that they the Maroochy Shire Council and announcing that pay. It is similar to the roads that are enjoyed by a coalition Government will remove the yoke of those living on the Gold Coast and that is the tolls from Sunshine Coast residents. main reason that many people on the Sunshine Mr Hamill: The expensive rural roads might Coast have resolved not to use the Sunshine be a bit much. Motorway. In particular, the Mooloolaba toll plaza cuts our community in half. That is the reason— Mr LAMING: That is all right. Before together with the fact that part of the road was closing, I would like to add my support to the calls already existing as a free road and the fact that by the member for Maroochydore for a southern this Government, prior to being elected in 1989, access from the motorway to the new shopping proclaimed that there would be no tolls on the centre at Maroochydore. I believe that such Sunshine Coast if they were indeed elected. access, even though not popular with Main The Government was elected in 1989, and Roads engineers, is very necessary. Even if this decided to retain the tolls on the motorway, was to result in a lowering of the speed limit on which is, by any measure, a most regrettable the motorway, I believe that the general public broken election promise. It is the sort of would prefer to have this convenience rather behaviour that people unfortunately are now than the congestion in the Maroochydore area. expecting from politicians and, even more Although this access road would be in the unfortunately, are not surprised when it occurs. electorate of Maroochydore, many of my own constituents living on the other side of the So we now have a situation in which there is motorway like to go to that shopping centre and a natural avoidance of the Sunshine Motorway by they, too, are disadvantaged by this lack of many people. That has caused considerable access to the shopping centre. distress for the residents of Karawatha Drive, Alfriston Drive, Golflinks Road, Stringybark Road, Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) Dixon Road and particularly the main street of (2.58 p.m.): The Transport Infrastructure Buderim—and others, of course. The Maroochy Amendment Bill (No. 2) is a further step in the Shire Council has recognised this problem and staged development of the Transport has allocated an amount of $70,000 to engage a Infrastructure Act that was envisaged when the consultant to try to assess the social dislocation principal Act was introduced into this House and the physical damage to their council roads earlier this year. The amendment Bill covers that are caused by the fact that people are specific objectives, obligations and powers concerning franchised roads, or what has been Legislative Assembly 9453 8 September 1994 commonly termed toll roads, constructed and throughout Brisbane to divert traffic away from operated by private concerns. the inner city. I encourage members to look at The amendment Bill also supersedes and that article, which I tabled during my speech in therefore repeals a number of Acts relating the Adjournment debate. I mention this specifically to the current operation of toll roads statement again only to reinforce the duplicity such as the Gateway Bridge, the Logan and dishonesty of the honourable member and Motorway and the Sunshine Coast Motorway. the Liberal Party in their stated opposition to the The Bill also states a number of specific southern Brisbane bypass. objectives that are relevant to future transport Therefore, the fundamental question is: planning decisions and how infrastructure can be how does a responsible Government respond to financed, constructed and managed. the demands created by an ever-increasing Whereas this amendment Bill unashamedly population? In the first instance, and as has is targeted towards encouraging private already been debated in this House in the last 24 investment in future road construction, I believe hours, the community demands an efficient, it is important to highlight the checks and cost-effective public transport system. Similarly, balances contained in this Bill that will ensure that the community also demands a road network that sensible planning decisions are made that not enables both public and private transport to only reflect this Government's economic travel efficiently between destinations. imperatives, but its social objectives as well. It is The demand for an efficient transport also important to remember that this is not a network is not simply generated by economic stand-alone amendment Bill, but that it is part of a considerations, but by less obvious package of legislation that has been designed to considerations such as the environment and fundamentally change the way that transport equality of access by the whole community to infrastructure and services are provided in this employment, education and social opportunities. State. Let us not forget that less than 24 hours That is why one of the most important features of ago we were debating the Transport Operations this Bill is the requirement that agreements (Passenger Transport) Bill, legislation that will reached between the Government and private significantly improve the standard and efficiency contractors to finance, build and manage new of public transport services throughout road projects must be consistent with the Queensland. coordination plan. The Transport Coordination Plan is a requirement of the Transport Planning Although I am sure that greater public and Coordination Act, which requires the attention will be focused on this particular Bill, I Government to provide a framework for strategic believe that it would be grossly unfair and planning and management of transport fundamentally wrong to characterise this resources. In the development of this plan, the Government as being somehow captured by the public must be consulted. Importantly, the so-called roads lobby. As the Minister stated in Transport Coordination Plan must take into his second-reading speech, this Bill is part of this account national transport strategies, regional Government's commitment to a balanced total transport strategies, local government interests, transport solution. Even the Opposition the Government's land use planning and the acknowledged as much last night when they Government's environmental policies. They are supported Transport Operations (Passenger all important checks and balances that, firstly, Transport) Bill. justify the need for investment in infrastructure. From time to time, pain is experienced by It also means that the Government is publicly the community and even elected accountable for its transport planning decisions. representatives in the planning and construction The Transport Coordination Plan has been of transport infrastructure. But we all know that developed recognising that a number of this State's social and economic imperatives will important criteria, including the environment, require more roads to be built in the future. The have been addressed. Therefore, as a result of continuing population growth in Queensland imposing those checks and balances, the requires that this be the case. outcomes in terms of the location of new As I outlined to the House on Tuesday night infrastructure projects are not left to the whim of during the Adjournment debate, even the slow private interests that are not accountable to the learner of this Chamber, the member for Aspley, community at large. Let us also not forget that admitted publicly that building more roads in clause 61AD of this Bill requires the end south-east Queensland was necessary. In fact, in agreement to be tabled in this Parliament and, a recent newspaper article he stated that the therefore, to be subject to the scrutiny of the Liberal's solution to the eastern tollway was the Legislature and the general public. immediate construction of a ring road network 8 September 1994 9454 Legislative Assembly

Furthermore, the department is required to infrastructure planning is that privately owned report to the community each year on the land is often required to allow a road corridor to operation of the franchise agreement entered be set aside. Of course, the land that is resumed into between the Government and the for the corridor is wider than the actual area that franchisee. Therefore, it would seem to me that would be occupied by the road surface. That is the obligations that are imposed on any done for a number of reasons, including agreement to be reached between the engineering requirements and to ameliorate the Government and private investors are of far impacts of the new road on the remaining greater significance than questions as to landowners in the area. However, it is often said whether roads should be publicly or privately that those people whose land is resumed owned or managed. completely for the purpose of preserving a road One would have thought that, 14 years after corridor are, in some respects, luckier than those the passing of the Gateway Bridge Agreement residents whose land abuts the road corridor. Act, questions about whether the Government They have legitimate concerns. Although the alone has sufficient finances without borrowing road is not on their doorsteps, it is close enough to fund the myriad infrastructure projects that are for them to express concerns about the possible required throughout the State have been put to impacts on the values of their properties and rest. However, what separates this Bill and the noise, visual and air pollution. policy of this Government from previous Acts— Since the publication of the environmental and Governments—designed to facilitate private impact assessment, I have had numerous investment in road infrastructure is, as I have meetings with the Minister and officers of his already mentioned, the requirements for department. I take this opportunity to thank the agreements and any amendments to be tabled in Minister and his department for their cooperation this House and made public. in resolving a number of the concerns that have Having taken a leaf out of the Premier's been expressed to me by my constituents. book and studied Hansard at the time of the Recently, I have made representations to the passing of the Gateway Bridge Agreement Act in Minister on behalf of a number of constituents 1980, I noted with great interest how the who have requested that consideration be given previous National and Liberal Party Governments to resuming their properties. I am led to refused point-blank to disclose the financial understand that those properties cannot be arrangements entered into by the then resumed because they lie outside the defined Government. As the member for Lytton and now corridor and are, in the opinion of the Deputy Premier of this State pointed out to the independent consultants, far enough away from House in the second-reading debate, the the corridor to experience minimal impacts as a Gateway Bridge Agreement was passed through result of the construction of the bypass. Parliament without any disclosure of the financial Notwithstanding the legitimate concerns details of the agreement to the Parliament. Not raised by the member for Gregory earlier today only were the financial details of the agreement about the overall costs of resumptions resulting not disclosed, but the then Government would from transport infrastructure planning, I simply not even table details of the anticipated usage of take this opportunity, on behalf of a number of the bridge. Even if a transport plan did exist my constituents, to request that the Minister under the previous Government, Hansard consider new options whereby residents in records that the previous Government was appropriate circumstances can be offered a certainly not prepared to share it with the choice as to whether they wish their properties to Parliament, let alone the community. be resumed along with those who are in the The current amendment Bill ensures that direct line of the corridor. the dodgy financial practices of previous National Notwithstanding the obvious financial and Liberal Party Governments in this State impacts that such an option would inevitably cannot and will not be repeated. It ensures that create, I would request that this matter be agreements reached between the Government considered as part of the ongoing transport and the private sector to provide transport policy review. Having made those specific infrastructure are arrived at through proper representations on behalf of my constituents, I planning processes, financial accountability and state that I support the Bill before the House. concerns for the interests of the community. Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (3.07 p.m.): In Before closing, I would like to take this speaking to this Transport Infrastructure Bill, I opportunity to raise a matter on behalf of a wish to make what I consider to be some number of constituents in my electorate with constructive suggestions about the respect to the southern Brisbane bypass. One of infrastructure of the whole area. Obviously, when the unfortunate consequences of transport one looks at the projected population figures for Legislative Assembly 9455 8 September 1994 the south-east corner—Brisbane, Logan, the people in their car, they would be fined. It was as Gold Coast, the north coast and Ipswich—in simple as that. That discouraged them. But there common with the chairman of the Travelsafe are other ways of doing it. Committee, I have some real concerns about In relation to heritage, I have argued with Pat what is going to happen. How are we going to Comben about whether we belt them over the handle the traffic problems created by that large head with a big stick or whether we hang a carrot influx of people? If we continue down the track out in front of them. I have always been in favour we are currently going, that area will become of the carrot-on-the-stick approach. Firstly, we similar to Los Angeles and California in general. obviously have to provide corridors and a ring- People are going to congregate in the south- road; they are a good start. Once that is done, eastern corner. They come here for the weather lanes can be dedicated to buses. and other reasons. However, that population migration is creating some very real problems. If people who are beetling into the city every morning see buses zipping past them in the I do not necessarily agree with the thrust of dedicated lanes, they would say, "I would better the planning that is taking place. I agree off sitting in that bus." If people saw this wholeheartedly with the Premier and his support happening morning after morning, they would for bikeways. I have been a supporter of have to have a pretty low IQ not to realise that bikeways for 15 years. In my day, many people they would be better off on a bus. That is not to saw bike riding as being Mickey Mouse. They say that everyone coming into the centre of the thought that people who rode bikes were just city will necessarily use a bus. Some people are trying to be trendies or Greenies. However, if we not able to use buses. A lot of people—like dedicate areas for bikeways that are safe, we are ourselves—come from the country into the city at capable of moving many people. Many people the beginning of the week. Because such own bikes. A tremendous number of what we people bring a lot of luggage with them, it is not might so irreverently term "yuppies"—upwardly practical to say that they should be using buses. mobile professionals—and other people are However, bus transport is very practical for the inclined towards trying to exercise and, if given average person who drives to work in the the incentive, they will ride their bikes to work. morning and goes home in the afternoon. All we However, no-one with any sense would ride a have to do is show them that there is a better way bike on a busy motorway or a road where there of doing it and that it does not cost a lot of are trucks whizzing all around them. Some idiots money. driving cars have no peripheral vision whatsoever. Instead, they seem to have tunnel We should introduce a token system in vision like those cart horses that wear blinkers. order to do away with the necessity to pay fares Those motorists look down the road without with money, which necessitates the giving of looking to their left or to their right. They just go, change. We should have ramp accesses to and the faster they can go, the happier they are. buses. In some of the South American countries, people wait for a bus on a platform. Those in Mr Robertson: Mr Elliott, have you seen wheelchairs and old ladies who take half an hour the new bikeway near the university? to climb up the stairs with the help of about six Mr ELLIOTT: It is excellent. I was one of people—— the people who supported the one that was put Mr Budd: Sexist. in initially along Milton Reach. That was a step in the right direction, as are these new ones. We Mr ELLIOTT: Or old blokes; I am not trying need to put in bikeways everywhere they are to be sexist. Lots of old people have a lot of feasible, so that people are encouraged to use problems climbing up bus stairs. So we should them. introduce compulsory prepaid fares. All passengers should buy tokens, and no money Everyone says that all we have to do is put in should change hands on the bus at all. An overall freeways and that that will solve our problems. If a plan should be worked out. We should have free road that currently has three lanes is upgraded to bus services in the centre of the city. Outside of six lanes, in no time flat those six lanes will be full the city, there should be one standard fare. Let of cars. That is just what happens. Honourable us be honest about it; we are subsidising the members should count the number of people, in system at the moment. It does not pay for itself particular young, reasonably fit looking people, and it never will. driving to work alone in their cars—one car, one person. Lee Kuan Yew would fix them up; he A standard fare to use the buses should be would fine them. That is not necessarily the way decided upon. A reusable token should be to go about it, but it is very effective. Back in the issued—or at the beginning of the week mid to late seventies, under Lee Kuan Yew, if commuters buy a handful of them. Alternatively, people did not have the prescribed number of some sort of computerised system could be used. Honourable members should watch what 8 September 1994 9456 Legislative Assembly now happens on the buses. They should do the the centre of the city, why would people take exercise for themselves. One after the other, their cars there? They have to be parked when they are stopping for people to come aboard. All they get there. It is just madness. We have to of the time goes in loading on passengers. Once look at all of these different things. they are moving they are fine. Then we have to attack the environmental Mr Robertson: Have you seen the new aspects. Unfortunately, some areas of the buses that actually drop down to the kerbside? Government—not necessarily the Minister, but Mr ELLIOTT: That is another way of doing other departments—seem to have blinkered it. vision in relation to the d'Oliveira process which is currently up at Uniquest. If we could perfect this Mr Robertson: The Brisbane City Council methane technology we could use all of our is actually currently introducing those buses. sewage and all the effluent from pigs and Mr ELLIOTT: As a practical engineer who feedlots. It is probably not practicable tomorrow has run an engineering business, I would say to change totally the redistribution service to one that it is probably much more practical and like Boral gas or any of those other gas cost-effective to use that sort of a platform operations, but it is a proposition with mass system. It could be done hydraulically or with transit—for big transport companies and for ramps. The bottom line is that passengers must moving people in buses. Methane could be put be able to board buses without climbing stairs into large tanks and into buses. Immediately the and they must have prepaid tickets. buses would have a fuel with a 17 per cent Once we have those dedicated corridors in higher octane rating than unleaded petrol and place, the buses can be stretched out, they can without any of the carbon dioxide or the other be very much bigger. I was poo-hooed when I noxious outputs of fossil fuels. tried to get B-double road trains operating in Mr J. H. Sullivan: And you are looking Queensland. Long before I was ever in the after the ozone layer. ministry I took a case to the Minister to try to have B-double road trains operating. Mr ELLIOTT: Exactly. I have received a lot of good interjections from the honourable; that is A Government member interjected. one of his best. We are all interested to see the Mr ELLIOTT: No, I am talking about the problems associated with urban transport transport area. I am drawing an analogy. They overcome. All of us who utilise that road down to said, "Oh, it can't be done. They will clean up the Gold Coast—I go up and down on it probably people everywhere." If one goes out on the road as much as anyone else does at different to day to see which trucks give us the most times—know that it is a disaster. Sure when we trouble, one finds that the B-double trains are get the train service down there some people will not a problem; they give us the least trouble. use the train. But unless all of the infrastructure Mr Hamill: You mean the B-doubles? that is needed at this end and at the other end is in place there will be problem, because no-one Mr ELLIOTT: Yes, the B-doubles. will go to the Gold Coast on a train unless when Mr Hamill: They actually handle better than they get there there is in place a good transport a lot of the other vehicles on the road. system to get them where they want to go. It all Mr ELLIOTT: Absolutely. If they are has to be dovetailed in. This is why I cannot properly engineered, they can go anywhere at all understand that in this place there is talk of that a single semitrailer can go. They are spot on. disbanding the Travelsafe Committee. I ask the They simply need to be properly engineered. member for Archerfield if that is the case. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot Mr Ardill: That is not our job. move massive numbers of people. We can move Mr ELLIOTT: Perhaps that committee them on double-deckers. If we went about it the could be further used in a non-partisan way to right way, we could move almost as many people really look at some of these things. People from in a bus as we do in trains. All that is required is to all parts of the State could get together. keep them out of the traffic in dedicated lanes. That would stop them from being held up by Mr Ardill: We are a safety committee. everyone else on the road. That is the means to Mr ELLIOTT: I know the committee deals get people into the centre of the city. The Lord with road safety, but many of the areas that Mayor is on the right tram with the free bus involve safety also involve practical transport in the city centre. I do not know much commonsense that could be used to solve some about it because I do not have much need for it. of these problems, but that is another story. That is the sort of thing that we want that will Mr Robertson: The Passenger Transport reduce the number of cars being brought to the Study addresses all those issues you have city centre. If we have a good transport system in Legislative Assembly 9457 8 September 1994 brought up today. They are all in the report and years, some fantastic work has been done they are progressively being implemented by the between Millmerran and on the other side of Minister. Captain's Mountain. Most of the bad cuttings in Mr ELLIOTT: Let us hope that the issues that location have been rectified. Those were the to which I have referred are implemented. There most dangerous areas, particularly for people has been much talk about those issues, but we moving wide equipment on permit such as must start putting runs on the board. If we do not, headers or other agricultural equipment. The by the year 2020 this area will not be worth living improvements in the standard of that road are in. I will not be here in the year 2020 if the unbelievable. predictions for this area come true. The views of regular motorists are not the A Government member: Hear, hear! only factor in the road-use equation. Whether we like it or not, roads in country areas will be utilised Mr ELLIOTT: The honourable member by a lot of different traffic. That is part and parcel thinks that is a good thing. of the commerce of those areas. In some Mr J. H. Sullivan: We are concerned that agricultural areas in the United States, large signs you are not going to be here after 1995. are erected that say, "You are now entering an Mr ELLIOTT: I think I might be; one never agricultural area. Tractors and agricultural knows. equipment have right of way." That is quite different from our approach. People tend to zero in on the road infrastructure problems in the south-east corner We must realise that all forms of transport as though those are the only problems that exist. must be accommodated on our roads. After all, I am very much aware of the case of Ipswich rural producers bring in valuable export dollars. Road. For 15 years, I ran a business on that road, They produce the food for our table. If we stymie so I know a bit about it. In the old days when them and make it more difficult for them to driving on that road into Brisbane, one would operate, we will be the ones who pay the price. stop constantly. That is no longer the case. Now, Initially, it will cost the producers some money, traffic moves at 100 kilometres per hour virtually but in the end that will flow on to the consumer, all the way through. One is almost in the centre of as it always does. Every time the Government the city before that speed limit is reduced. seeks to rectify or construct a road, it must Although that is all well and good, when people consider all possible users of that road. It is not in the rest of the State see how many millions of good enough to adopt the attitude that vehicles dollars have been spent on flyovers and carrying wide equipment should be removed whatever else to make such an easy run to the from the road. We cannot do that unless another city possible, it is not really surprising that they dedicated road is constructed for their use. feel a bit miffed that the attention to other Farmers have to move their equipment. People roads—— who have two farms 10 kilometres apart cannot purchase two sets of equipment for the two Mr Ardill: That's where the tollway works, farms. That is a total economic nonsense. They isn't it? have to move their gear, and they do so under a Mr ELLIOTT: That is true, but as someone yearly permit system. I urge the Minister to rightly pointed out earlier, all wage earners pay consider such matters when constructing roads. taxes. The rural sector of Queensland brings We need to educate members of the public export income into the State and creates goods to expect to encounter large, wide agricultural and services for all. Transport infrastructure in the equipment when they travel in rural areas. That productive sector of Queensland should not be should be part and parcel of learning to drive. neglected. Plenty of problems exist in many rural Driving instructors should inform people of that areas. The standard of many main roads and fact. Driving in the city is fine. It is up to individuals arterial roads in rural areas is unacceptable. Most to avoid accidents with other motorists. However, of the major highways are pretty good. A few in rural areas, stock may be on the road. People sections of the Gore Highway between drive over the top of a hill doing 120 or 130 when Toowoomba and the border need upgrading. they should not be travelling at that speed, and Like it or not, that is the route that trucks will use. just over the top of the next ridge is a herd of A high number of gear changes are required cattle. The public needs to be alerted to such between Sydney and Brisbane. Because of the possibilities. effort involved in driving a truck, it is so much more relaxing to drive down through Millmerran I thank the Minister for the opportunity to say and use that route. Truck drivers will vote with a few words on this legislation. It is of great their wheels and use that route every time. importance to all Queenslanders. We must realise that no one party has all the expertise or Some problems still exist with the edges of understanding of these issues. I have spent some sections of that road. Over the last few 8 September 1994 9458 Legislative Assembly nearly 20 years in this place, and I have examined Coordinator-General of 9 August that caught my many different systems in many different eye, and that is the fact that the assessment countries of the world. study, on page 46, states— Time expired. "In summary, it is difficult to identify any Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) significant benefit which will accrue from (3.27 p.m.): I am pleased to have the opportunity construction or operation of the Bells Creek to support the Transport Infrastructure Arterial Road." Amendment Bill. In the spirit that has invaded the Certainly, if that is the case, one would have to latter stages of this debate, I do not intend to ask why this project would go ahead, and I speak for terribly long, and I certainly will not take certainly hope that in the answer provided to the opportunity to do—if members may forgive BIEPA that issue is addressed. me a pun—a road trip through my electorate. As I have said, the road is not in my Certainly, I have used this Chamber many times electorate, it is in the electorate of the to talk about road issues in my electorate, and honourable member for Caloundra, Mrs there are many pressing issues in my area. Sheldon, but it does have an ability to impact on Instead, I want to confine myself to some of the something that is very near and dear to me and to provisions of this Bill; in particular, the fact that my electorate, and that is Pumicestone Passage, this Bill provides the framework for infrastructure so I would be very anxious to be sure that the to be provided by private enterprise. environmental impact assessments are both I do not have any problem with that as a done properly and assessed properly and that policy. However, as we allow that activity to take this road proposal, should it proceed, only place in our State, must be aware that private proceeds under the most stringent conditions. enterprise will enter into providing infrastructure There is one other section of the Bill that for the same reason that it enters into anything causes me some concern—and perhaps the else—for profit. "Profit" is not an ugly word, but Minister might like to address this in his we need to be careful as a Parliament that we do summation rather than during the Committee not embrace this concept with such enthusiasm stage—and that is the section of the Bill that that we turn the provision of infrastructure into provides for the director-general to lease, sell or the profit playground of major companies. otherwise dispose of land resumed for transport One private toll road proposal—not in my purposes to a franchisee. I can understand that; electorate but close to the north of my however, I would like some assurance that this electorate—is causing some concern to people does not mean that private developers who are with whom I have a great deal of contact. I refer to looking for a way to make a quid by operating a the Bells Creek arterial road, which has been toll road in this State could come to the Minister referred to either as the Thiess road or the and say, "We can put this particular road from Thiess/Emanuel road, depending on the person point A to point B but we cannot acquire this to whom one is speaking. That proposal is being piece of land in the middle. Could you resume it worked through at this time. The Sunshine Coast and then sell it on to us so that we could Environment Council, or SCEC, and the Bribie construct the road?" I think that would be Island Environment Protection Association, or something that the people of this State would BIEPA, have expressed concerns about that not like to see happening. road, firstly about its need, and secondly about However, I will say in conclusion that some of the aspects of the environmental impact essentially what is occurring by way of this assessment that has been undertaken. Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill is to be I was very pleased to hear these words in commended to the House. The Minister has the Minister's second-reading speech— stated on many occasions that this is just part of "However, road franchise proposals will an overall package. The overall package for be subject to the most stringent transport in this State is proceeding on a fairly environmental impact assessments." reasonable course given the difficulties of financing and the difficulties that my colleague That undertaking is very laudable, and I am sure the member for Brisbane Central pointed out that we will do our best to ensure that it is carried earlier, that is, that the true inheritance of the out. However, on reading information provided Goss Government in 1989 was not, as the to me by both BIEPA and SCEC, it would appear Opposition regularly claims, a sound financial that the draft impact assessment on the Bells position but, rather, an absolute lack of forward Creek arterial has not been quite as stringent as planning. we might have liked. While that is for people elsewhere to ultimately decide, there was one Mr Veivers: He wouldn't know. thing highlighted by BIEPA in its letter to the Legislative Assembly 9459 8 September 1994

Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Obviously, the of them acknowledge that something has to be member for Southport wants to stay here for the done with traffic and transport issues. However, rest of the night. I am happy to stand here and let with very few exceptions, they oppose what they him have his go for a minute or two, but, Mr have seen of the proposed airport motorway Deputy Speaker, I would not want to test your project. Residents have also told me that one of patience. I thank the House for its indulgence their biggest concerns is the uncertainty of not and I support the Bill before the House. knowing what is going to happen to their house, Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) to their street or to their suburb. It is important (3.35 p.m.): The proposal to construct the airport therefore that a decision be made as soon as motorway has caused considerable concern to practicable. However, this speedy resolution residents in Wooloowin, Eagle Junction, Kalinga, must be balanced against their expressed desire Albion and Lutwyche. One major concern for the local community to have input into the residents have is that the proposed motorway decision-making process. would create a significant social problem by The Premier, the Deputy Premier and the dividing a community and isolating some parts of Minister for Transport have all guaranteed that the suburbs. The existing railway line already local residents will be listened to. I am certain that forms a man-made boundary in residential areas, the residents' views will be considered by both and a limited access toll road would further isolate the independent consultants and the and divide residential areas close by. For Government. It seems reasonable that a period example, streets which are relatively near each of two to three months would be satisfactory for other, such as Junction Road and Norman reasonable community consultation to occur. So Parade, Chalk Street and Lisson Grove, Hudson if local input took place during October, Road and Bridge Street, have a different November and December this year, I would hope community outlook because of the division that the consultants' report could be written early caused by the railway line. in the new year and considered by Cabinet in the Unlike many residents on the south side of first quarter of 1995. I do not believe it is possible Brisbane in respect to the Gold Coast motorway, to finalise the consultation process, the report north side residents are not convinced a new writing and the Cabinet consideration before road is needed. The first thing the Department of Christmas, as the member for Clayfield has Transport needs to demonstrate is whether suggested. there is a need for any change to the present Although this Bill allows for privately road system. By making its figures open to public financed franchised roads to be built, it does not scrutiny, the Department of Transport would mean that this Government or this Minister is hell- establish its bona fides and help local residents bent on a road building spree. It has been said become properly informed of the real transport that we are heading down the LA route of needs. freeway construction. Let us put an end to that We know that the growth in population in catchcry right now. In city areas of about the south-east Queensland is about 700 people per same size, Los Angeles has over 1 000 week and areas just to the north of Brisbane kilometres of freeways or highways, while such as Deception Bay, where 1 000 homes a Brisbane, even if all the proposed roads were year are being built, are putting tremendous actually built, would have fewer than 100 pressure on all Government services: hospitals, kilometres of freeways. schools and, in this case, roads. However, the As to public transport developments, this Department of Transport still must show the Minister and this Government have done many need for transportation changes in these things: the upgrading of the rail tunnels, $140m; particular suburbs. Personally, I believe that the reintroduction of the railway line to the Gold something has to be done. Over recent years, I Coast, which was taken away and destroyed by have seen the increasing use of our roads and the previous National/Liberal Party the growing number of trouble spots on the Governments, $330m; and the new carriages north side of Brisbane, but I am not convinced which have been built for suburban passenger that the airport motorway has to be the solution transport costing $90m are but three examples to this problem. Therefore I oppose the of improvements to public transport. As well, construction of the proposed airport motorway improvements to the ferry services and the bus because I believe other solutions are possible. routes in and around the Brisbane area are in Over recent weeks, I have had extensive place. The $6m spent on the bikeways and the discussions with many local residents, $22m on security for Park 'n' Ride and rail constituents, community groups, some transport in Brisbane are further examples of this members of AMAC—the Airport Motorway Action Government's commitment to the development Committee—and local ALP members. Almost all of public transport. 8 September 1994 9460 Legislative Assembly

It is to be hoped that the proposed airport such link that needs to be considered in my local rail links could be brought forward. Mr Santoro's area is the Kalinga-Kedron link. I am not rail proposal is trying to have two bob each way. It convinced that the proposed route is the best is unfortunate that this member wants to keep an location, but I acknowledge that a ring-road that existing rail link for a low-use/low-population allows the east-west movement of traffic is branch line only, but he wants to put the high- needed. volume/high-freight line away from Ascot and As mentioned, most people—and I as a local Hamilton and relocate it in the working class areas resident and member of State Parliament in the of Hendra, Toombul and Nudgee. That is more or area—recognise that there are growing traffic less the approach that the member for Clayfield problems in the northern suburbs of Brisbane. would like us to take. We know that major arterial roads such as There are other areas on the north side of Lutwyche Road, Sandgate Road, Breakfast Brisbane that require major attention. For many Creek Road, Kingsford Smith Drive and Gympie years, the Nundah bottleneck has been a Road are either at capacity or will be coming to particular problem faced by a number of capacity in the near future. Governments, but it has never been faced up to. With the advent of the airport motorway Through a very good process of public issue, the Government made a commitment to consultation, a decision of the cut-and-cover engage an independent consultant to undertake option has gained widespread support from the a detailed environmental and social impact business community, local residents and the assessment with extensive community school communities who would be most affected consultation being an integral part of this by any change to the Nundah roads. An efficient, process. This will ensure that any decision safe passage through Nundah to the Gateway making takes into consideration the concerns connector is essential if road problems on the and views of the local community. However, it is north side of Brisbane are to be addressed. my strong and preferred view that the answer to As well, the upgrading or installation of traffic these traffic problems is not the construction of a lights in many areas would be an advantage to new facility such as an airport motorway, but local residents. Around the Eagle Junction other alternative solutions. Those alternative shops, where Junction Road, Morrison Street solutions could include upgrading the existing and Park Avenue meet, is a terrible set of road network, the construction of the Nundah intersections—dangerous for both pedestrians bypass and upgrading of interjections such as and motorists. The upgrading of areas such as Gympie Road and Rode Road. I support the that would contribute to the better traffic flow and legislation. safety of people on the north side. Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—Minister for We also need to upgrade and make safer a Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on number of intersections. Where Gympie Road Economic and Trade Development) (3.44 p.m.), meets Hamilton Road, Rode Road and Stafford in reply: I thank honourable members for their Road are three examples. Other examples contribution to the debate today on what is a very include where Sandgate Road meets Junction important piece of legislation. It may be a simple Road, Buckland Road and Breakfast Creek piece of legislation, but it does have substantial Road. The intersection of Lutwyche Road and implications for the delivery of the roads program Chalk Street and the intersection of Rose Street in Queensland. The legislation before the House and Kedron Park Road are other examples of provides a simple framework whereby future road where safer, more efficient intersections would transport infrastructure can be achieved and the allow for the better flow of traffic. private sector can be a partner in the Unfortunately, Brisbane has been built achievement of the provision of that largely with radial roads that all end up in the infrastructure. Valley/city area. On the north side of Brisbane we The legislation raises some broad issues have Kingsford Smith Drive; Nudgee Road; about the role of the toll road in our transport Sandgate Road; the Shaw Road/Dickson present and our transport future. Most members Street/Abbotsford Road complex; Gympie Road; would have shared an experience when they Lutwyche Road; Appleby Road; Maundrell probably resented putting their hand in their Terrace; Webster Road; and South Pine Road, pocket to pay a toll at some time in their which all come from the outlying areas into the life—whether it was in Brisbane, when they city. crossed the old Walter Taylor Bridge at We need some ring-roads that will allow Indooroopilly, or the old Hornibrook Highway people to move from one set of suburbs to going to Redcliffe, or whether it was on the another without having to come into the major Gateway Bridge, the Logan Motorway, the populated areas of the Valley or the city. One Sunshine Motorway or, indeed, even if they Legislative Assembly 9461 8 September 1994 were interstate and travelled along the tollway relation to the recent decision of this through Gosford on the way to Sydney. Government to build a south coast tollway. It was It is interesting to note that, today, we have recognised by those groups on the Gold Coast seen a significant number of new toll road that, without that facility being brought on line in proposals, not only here in south-east the foreseeable future, jobs, economic activity, Queensland but in Sydney and Melbourne. the tourism industry and the manufacturing People who wish to travel overseas will find that industry on the Gold Coast would suffer—similar toll roads are very much a part of the transport to what Mr Gunn stated, namely, that without the infrastructure scene in a vast number of Sunshine Motorway being conceived and countries around the world. The question we implemented as a toll road, commerce and the have to ask is: why is this so? Why have tollways community on the Sunshine Coast would suffer. proliferated in this way? The simple reason is that There is truth in the honourable member's public authorities—not only in south-east comments. Queensland and other parts of Australia but It was quite clear from those comments that around the world—have recognised that there is what the former National Party Government was a certain level of community demand for saying was that, while there was a need to see high-quality road transport links and that often that road put in place on the Sunshine Coast, it that community demand cannot be met from the was not prepared to take funds from other road funds available in the Consolidated Revenue projects around the State to put in place road Funds of Governments. This provides the infrastructure which, whilst seen as desirable on opportunity to involve the private the Sunshine Coast, did not rank of the highest sector—whether integrally in terms of a build, priority. own and operate type of contract or by way of I feel a little sad for the members of the private finance raising offers—through public Opposition who are parading around on the authorities providing that infrastructure ahead of Sunshine Coast making all sorts of rash promises when it could otherwise have been provided. about how they will take the tolls off the I do not often draw comfort from quoting Sunshine Motorway, Stages 1 and 2—a project former National Party Transport Ministers, but I that carries a total debt of $191m. I have to ask could not help reading the words of the former the members of the Opposition: where do they Deputy Premier and Minister for—at that expect the money to come from? The Leader of stage—Public Works, Main Roads, Expo and the Liberal Party might think she can put it on the Police—that is a good integrated portfolio if ever corporate coalition bankcard, but that might there was one—Mr Bill Gunn, who, in his break even her credit limit. Certainly, it breaks the second-reading speech to the Logan Motorway limits of the credibility of this Opposition. There is Agreement Act Amendment Bill, wherein he was only way in which that $191m can be repaid; addressing the proposals of that then National taxpayers' dollars must be taken straight out of Party Government to build the Sunshine Consolidated Revenue and poured into meeting Motorway as a toll road in 1988, said— the debt that is being carried for that road "Tolls for the Sunshine Motorway are infrastructure. essential, as the $45m required to fund this Honourable members opposite must ask facility represents more than four times the themselves another question. If the Sunshine total amount available annually for this type Coast is worthy of having the debt on that of road in all Sunshine Coast local particular toll road paid out by a coalition authorities." Government, what is the Opposition saying to On page 706 of Hansard, Mr Gunn went on to the people who live alongside the Logan say— Motorway? What is it saying to the people who live alongside the Gateway Arterial? Communities "This Bill will allow the Sunshine that frequently use the Gateway Bridge live Motorway agreement to be finalised, alongside the Gateway Arterial. Of course, that bringing into being arrangements that will bridge is carrying a little over $300m in debt. provide the Sunshine Coast with a road What about the communities that live alongside facility which will serve the rapidly expanding the Logan Motorway? Another $152m debt is tourist centres for many years ahead so that being carried by that motorway. Why is it that, in an inadequate road system will not retard the view of the Opposition, the Sunshine Coast growth in this important part of is so worthy and the other communities of south- Queensland." east Queensland are so unworthy? If I closed my eyes, I could have thought that I do not mind telling my constituents the similar comments were being made by sundry views of members of the Opposition. I do not spokespeople from organisations such as the mind telling the people of Ipswich, Logan City, Chambers of Commerce on the Gold Coast in 8 September 1994 9462 Legislative Assembly the Albert Shire, Eagleby and Murarrie and the Mr JOHNSON: I rise to a point of order. I people who live on the north side of Brisbane believe that the Minister is misleading the House. that the National Party and the Liberal Party Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Davidson): believe that they should still pay tolls to use the Order! There is no point of order. Gateway Bridge or the Logan Motorway, but in areas where those parties hold marginal seats on Mr HAMILL: The honourable member may the Sunshine Coast they are prepared to believe that, but I am telling him the facts. The plunder the public purse and pay out that debt to facts are that we redistribute road funds into pork-barrel their backyard. That is really what it country Queensland. It is fit and proper that we amounts to. do so. The other alternative is to redirect road Mr Johnson: And so you should. funding. The honourable member for Mr HAMILL: And so we should also Cunningham raised an issue about equity in the support public transport in south-east distribution of road funds. People who come to Queensland. Funding has to be distributed south-east Queensland and see major new equitably on sound social and environmental infrastructure being put in place— whether it is a grounds. toll road or not—might feel that an enormous The member for Mooloolah was trying to put amount of funds has been poured into this area forward an argument that is actually quite contrary at the expense of country Queensland. I want to to the argument put forward repeatedly by the make the point that that is simply not the case. If Liberal Party in which it has stated its support for one looks at where registration fees are toll roads. He was suggesting that the issue of collected, one finds that in the 1993-94 year, in toll roads is different from the issues of health, the five old Department of Transport regions, education, and law and order. I suggest to the $36m in registration was collected from the member that it is totally analogous. The policy of south-west region, $39m from the central region this Government in relation to toll roads is: there and $51m from the northern region. However, in must be an alternative. We do not force people return, this Government spent $59m in the to use a toll road; there must be an alternative so south-west region, $80m in the central region that people can exercise their right of choice. and $65m in the northern region. In other words, They will exercise their right of choice to pay a toll we actually took $100m of registration fees that if they perceive that they will obtain a benefit from were paid by people in Brisbane and using that toll road. That is no different from redistributed it into country Queensland. Why people believing that they gain an advantage by should we not do that? Is the honourable going to a private hospital rather than a public member suggesting that that is an improper hospital and being prepared to pay the policy? I am suggesting it is a very realistic policy difference or people sending their children to a which is wholly consistent with the approach private school as opposed to a State school and taken by this Government to integrated transport being prepared to pay the difference. So it is with planning. respect to a user pays facility on the roads. We do not want all that money to be spent We need the infrastructure now. The on roads in south-east Queensland. honourable member for Cunningham and other Nevertheless, we want to see decent public speakers mentioned the enormous pressure transport to relieve the burden on the road that population growth in south-east network—particularly the radial road network— in Queensland, in particular, is placing on our the inner-city areas of Brisbane. We want to infrastructure. It is that mechanism, through improve public transport and spend the road private sector involvement or indeed the dollars where they are most appropriately spent. establishment of toll roads and user-pays Mr Johnson: Nobody disagrees with that, facilities, that enables us to do the sorts of things Minister. that we need to be doing now, before the Mr HAMILL: I hear the honourable population is here—before we find ourselves member saying that nobody disputes that. I have facing pressure on our transport infrastructure heard those opposite dispute that time and time with no solution to dealing with it. That is why I again. I have heard them peddle the lie that we said that major new infrastructure in south-east are unkind to country Queensland, that country Queensland is most likely developed through a Queensland is having to subsidise urban public user-pays facility. transport in south-east Queensland. It is simply We simply do not have half a billion dollars not the case. In relation to road lying around in the top drawer to spend in order expenditure—south-east Queensland is to have major new road infrastructure such as the subsidising the rest—— south coast motorway opened in 2 years' to 3 years' time. Those funds are not there, unless Legislative Assembly 9463 8 September 1994 we ransack our overall roads program, particularly may well be a need for new roads. However, we in the areas where, I dare say, it would hurt the should hold to the sort of policies that this State National Party the most. The member for Gregory Government holds to, and that is that roads are spoke about the Boulia-Tobermory road. That is not the sole solution. Roads are part of an overall a very worthy cause if ever there was one. I am transport solution that involves our urban rail pleased to tell him that I continue to allocate system, our public transport system, our funds in special recognition of the particular bikeways and our demand management systems problems of those isolated communities. But, if to encourage people into more rational, they follow those sorts of policies that they environmental and socially more acceptable enunciate on the Sunshine Coast, there will not choices to meet their transportation needs. be any money for the Boulia-Tobermorys, Diamantina Shire or the gulf. In fact, there will not With respect to the comments of the be much money for work anywhere, because it member for Clayfield—— will be pumped into fulfilling cheap and nasty Mr Santoro: That's me. electoral promises in the bailiwicks of marginal National Party and Liberal Party members on the Mr HAMILL: I know it is. When it comes to Sunshine Coast. Mr Johnson should mark my the issue of railway access to the Brisbane words. Airport, the member for Chermside described A number of members raised issues relating the member for Clayfield as having two bob each to specific road projects and I wish to address way. I must admit that if I heard the member for some comments to the inquiries and remarks of Chermside correctly, I say, "What's new?" After those honourable members. The member for all, the member for Clayfield is a Liberal, and Brisbane Central raised concerns about the Liberals always have two bob each way on every Brisbane City Council's Valley bypass project. If issue. As a former National Party Premier used to my notes are fair to his comments, he raised a say, "Sometimes it gets a bit uncomfortable with concern that was shared by other members in one leg either side of the barbed wire fence." I relation to proposals for airport motorways and so believe that what we hear from the member for on, that is, the uncertainty that exists in the Clayfield is a genuine concern about the community while the community consultation inadequacy of the road network in his area. processes are undertaken. It is a difficulty, Indeed, I have a pile of correspondence from the because if we are going to have full and open member for Clayfield whingeing about Kingsford consultation, we will also generate a lot of Smith Drive, Nudgee Road and Lutwyche Road. I speculation and uncertainty. However, I for one do not blame him. He is not alone on this matter. believe that quality consultation adds to the He is not Robinson Crusoe, because many quality of decision making and that is the price people are whingeing about all of those roads. that we must pay for quality decision making. That is a real problem which needs to be However, I share the concern of the addressed. However, we have not heard any honourable member for Brisbane Central about solutions from the member for Clayfield; we only an extension of time on the Valley bypass and hear about the problems. his concerns about some of the options that have been talked about as being pursued, for This afternoon, I will put the member for example, tunnels and so on. I also agree with him Clayfield out of his misery. He keeps saying, in relation to the RNA. I have indicated very "No-one has access to the traffic figures. No-one clearly to the Urban Renewal Task Force in really knows how bad it really is. Let us have Brisbane that I do not support the RNA grounds some indication about the nature of the being dissected by a new road. I have made that problem." As I always endeavour to try to provide view very clear. some enlightenment to honourable members However, I have some difficulty reconciling opposite, I will do likewise for the member for some of the press releases that I have seen Clayfield. I table and seek to have incorporated in emanating from the Brisbane City Council which Hansard a table which outlines traffic volumes say, "We want no more roads. No more new and current road capacity on a number of the roads in Brisbane" and then in subscript, "Except roads in the inner northern suburbs, and also our $60m little new road called the Valley projections as to the traffic volumes that those bypass." We cannot have two bob each way on roads will be carrying in the year 2006 if we do these matters. I believe that it is a very real and not have any new facilities in the area. In other sensible proposition to support a bypass to get words, the column for 2006 is a projection based heavy vehicles out of the Valley. However, in on no airport motorway. terms of planning issues, we have to have the courage of our convictions and get up and say Leave granted. that there is a need for improved roads. There 8 September 1994 9464 Legislative Assembly

Road Capacity Current 2006 without the Kedron High School and the Kedron Volume new facility Park Hotel. The Main Roads Department has Lutwyche Road Lutwyche 40,000 47,600 51,700 resumed a lot of land so that Junction Road Sandgate Road could lead straight through to Gympie Road Nundah 30,000 37,500 45,000* and come out near the Kentucky Fried Clayfield 30,000 31,700 32,000 Chicken establishment." East/West to Junction Road 30,000 26,900 31,500* Who said that? Brian Austin when he was Breakfast Creek Road 50,000 54,400 60,800 still a Liberal and before he came a Minister in the Kingsford Smith Drive 40,000 40,000 43,000 National Party Government. He was the member Park Road (East West) 20,000 10,400 12,700* for Wavell at the time, and he said that during a Gympie Road (Kedron) 60,000 55,600 74,200* debate about the Gateway Bridge Agreement Bill Nudgee Road 20,000 16,000 31,600 on 15 April 1980. Junction Road For anybody to claim that there is a sudden (West of Sandgate Road) 15,000 14,500 20,000* revelation that there are problems on the north Rose Street 15,000 11,600 26,000* side and that there are problems with the road *State controlled roads connections servicing the area, one would have Mr HAMILL: I will take honourable to ask where they have been living for the past members through the data, because it is 15 years. Even Brian Austin could identify the instructive. The table contains information both problem 14 years ago. about State-controlled roads and local-authority In the meantime, the problem was always controlled roads. I think the member for put in the too-hard basket, nothing was done Chermside referred to the problems along about it and, of course, therein lies part of the Sandgate Road at Nundah. Indeed, problems problem. All the tough issues, whether we are exist. The table also shows that by the year dealing with motorways to the Gold Coast or 2006, there would be a 20 per cent increase on trying to improve access to the airport or the current traffic volume at the Nundah shopping seaport, were always put in the too-hard basket; centre, which would render Sandgate Road at they were always too tough. Our day of that point running at 50 per cent above existing reckoning is upon us. We have to come to terms capacity. That would indicate to me a real with these issues in the interests of quality of life problem. Sandgate Road between the airport and in the interest of our communities. We have access road—the east/west arterial and Junction to make the right decisions. We have to make Road—will be running at 17 per cent over decisions which take into consideration the existing traffic volumes and 5 per cent above community's needs and aspirations, and we have existing capacity. Gympie Road at Kedron, which to consult with communities to get those is a State road, will be running at 33.4 per cent decisions right. above existing traffic volumes and would be I want to make a couple of comments in running 23.7 per cent above the road capacity. relation to what I consider to be a very thoughtful The projection for Junction Road, west of contribution by the member for Cunningham in Sandgate Road, which is another relation to our road needs. State-controlled road, is traffic volume increasing Mr Beattie: It was the first useful by 38 per cent by the year 2006. That road would contribution in 15 years. be running at 33.3 per cent above capacity. The Mr HAMILL: I will give the honourable projection for Rose Street—and this is a member his due. He described the situation of beauty—which is another State-controlled road, our radial roads. He was talking about bus is that traffic volumes will be running 124 per cent lanes—and I would like to think of them more in above current levels and 73 per cent above the terms of high occupancy vehicle lanes—that road capacity. That table demonstrates that, yes, enable people, who are travelling in other than there are real problems. There are also real their own private vehicles, to be moved into the problems with the council roads such as Brisbane CBD. I would like to inform the Kingsford Smith Drive and Lutwyche Road, and honourable member that the Queensland State we need to address those issues. Government controls only one road that leads For anyone to suggest that this matter is a into the central business district of Brisbane, and new issue or something that has not been talked that is the South East Freeway. In my view, as a about for some time, let me quote from Hansard a State Government, we should not be looking to speech made just a little while ago. It states— roads that draw traffic into central business districts; we should be looking at the ring roads, "The connection of Junction Road with the bypass roads and the roads that connect Gympie Road weaves around the North communities. Brisbane College of Advanced Education, Legislative Assembly 9465 8 September 1994

I agree with the member for Cunningham Committee that, in relation to radial roads that focus into Hon. D. J. Hamill (Ipswich—Minister for central business districts, we need to be putting Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on in demand management measures designed to Economic and Trade Development) in charge of enhance the role of public transport. I make the the Bill. point, though, that with one exception all of the those roads in Brisbane are controlled by the Clauses 1 to 5, as read, agreed to. Brisbane City Council. I have supported the Clause 6— Brisbane City Council with the implementation of high-occupancy vehicle lanes on Lutwyche Mr SANTORO (4.16 p.m.): In referring the Road on the north side, and on Mains Road on Minister to this clause, I particularly refer him to the south side. We need to see more of that. But the Explanatory Note, within which he talks about what we need to see in all of these important this clause applying to the construction, issues is a bit of commonsense and common maintenance and operation of all Government effort to try to work towards sensible transport supported transport infrastructure. I refer also to outcomes, as I said in the House last night in one of the objectives of this part of the Bill, which relation to the public transport legislation. is to promote within overall transport objectives—— One of the measures that we put into that legislation was a requirement for local authorities Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. I think to take into consideration in their road schemes the honourable member is speaking to clause 5, the need for servicing developments through not clause 6. public transport. That was an important public The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr reform. It is a reform that local government not Briskey): Yes, he is; that is correct. only in south-east Queensland but elsewhere in the State has to take heed of, because we need Mr HAMILL: The Committee has already better transport outcomes. We need a stronger dealt with clause 5, as it stands. commitment to alternatives as opposed to the Mr SANTORO: Mr Chairman, with respect, asphalt-at-all-costs approach to transport I had to refer again to my notes. Page 3 of the solutions. I believe very strongly in that. Explanatory Notes talks about Part 6 and In conclusion, I wish to address the proposed section 61AA. I am quoting directly comments of the member for Chermside. I am from page 4, on which the objectives are stated. I very much aware of the uncertainty that has been am sorry, I think I may be right. generated by activities on the north side. A Mr HAMILL: I think the member may be decision is needed for those communities in wrong. I distinctly heard the Chairman call clauses those near northern suburbs about whether we 1 to 5. Clause 5 is certainly a lengthy clause, proceed with an airport motorway, upgrade local because it actually incorporates into Chapter 5 of roads or do nothing. My commitment is to put in the Transport Infrastructure Act that whole part place a consultant to listen to what the headed "Part 6—Franchised Roads", which has community has to say. I am all in favour of already been adopted by the Committee. informed debate and discussion. I believe that process should be expedited as far as possible, Mr SANTORO: I understand that now. but not at the expense of a proper consultative Clauses 6 and 7, as read, agreed to. process. I do not believe that it is in the interests of the community for the issue to drag on for Schedules 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. months and months. Bill reported, without amendment. When I talked to the people of Wooloowin, I said that we needed a decision before the State election, so that we would not have the type of Third Reading situation that often occurred in the past. When Bill, on motion of Mr Hamill, by leave, read a the former National Party Government had a third time. tough decision to make, it would hide it and NATIONAL ENVIRONMENT spring it on people after an election. That is not PROTECTION COUNCIL the way to engender trust in the community. That (QUEENSLAND) BILL is not the way I believe that we should progress this very important issue of transport in Second Reading south-east Queensland. I commend the Bill to Debate resumed from 4 August (see the House. p. 8828). Motion agreed to. Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (4.19 p.m.): It is with pleasure that I rise to join the debate on 8 September 1994 9466 Legislative Assembly the National Environment Protection Council be discussed. The Minister may agree to certain (Queensland) Bill 1994. The Opposition will not changes being passed by the Federal be opposing this Bill. However, I do have some Parliament. If two-thirds of the States that are concerns that I wish to raise in the House at this party to this agreement are in favour of a certain time. amendment, it can be implemented. However, if We do agree with the principles of the the Commonwealth Parliament disagrees, such proposed Act. I think they are desirable. The changes cannot be implemented. We can then object of the Act is as follows— amend the State legislation ourselves. "to ensure that, by means of the Ms Robson: We also have stated the establishment and operation of the National environment reporting every four years in this Environment Protection Council— State under the Environment Protection Bill coming up. (a) people enjoy the benefit of equivalent protection from air, water or soil pollution Mr FITZGERALD: I note the Minister's and from noise, wherever they live in interjection. Australia; and It is important that the Parliaments in each (b) decisions of the businesses community State appoint a group to monitor proposed are not distorted, and markets are not changes. Otherwise, members of the fragmented, by variations between Opposition, members of the caucus and even participating jurisdictions in relation to the the Minister's Cabinet colleagues will be adoption or implementation of major legislating blindfolded. No-one will know what is environmental protection measures." going on, except for the Minister and her officers. They may give a proposal a tick and think As we in the Opposition believe strongly in that it is reasonable, but they do not hold all the State rights, one might ask why we support this wisdom. legislation. We believe that on some occasions there must be consistent legislation throughout Ms Robson: It goes through under the the States—and this is one of those other Act. They link together, and they will go cases—because citizens of Australia do move through as subordinate legislation. from one State to the other. Mr FITZGERALD: But we will not have I have some reservations about this the right to disallow the subordinate legislation legislation. The Bill states that template passed by the Commonwealth Parliament. If we legislation is being passed by the disagree, we can enact our own legislation, but Commonwealth Parliament, and the other we are either part of the agreement or we are not. Parliaments that have agreed to participate in the We can impose more stringent controls, but we legislative scheme will pass complementary cannot impose lesser controls, and that is of legislation. It seems that Western Australia has concern to the Opposition. some reservations about the scheme, and at this In principle, we support the desirability of stage the Parliament of Western Australia has this legislation. However, we are concerned decided that it will not adopt this national about the monitoring of these controls. schemes legislation but will enact its own Queensland may want to apply a lesser standard legislation, which no doubt it can monitor. in a particular sphere that may have an economic I understand that this is the minimum impact upon a certain sector of our community. requirement that the States will observe and that We in Queensland may make a political decision they have the right to legislate to enact stricter that a certain standard is too high for us. Unless regulations and tougher conditions if they so we are aware of the proposed standard and have desire. The Minister is nodding to confirm my an input before the subordinate legislation interpretation of the Bill. However, I believe that comes through from the Federal level, we are there must be a group of people to monitor the locked into it. We cannot impose a lesser regulations that are being passed and to report standard in Queensland than that applying in the on those matters to this Parliament. Federal jurisdiction; we may only impose a higher standard. I certainly believe that State rights The National Environment Protection should always be preserved. Council will report annually. Does that council report annually to each State Parliament? The I turn to a matter of drafting. The agreement Minister is nodding. I believe that such a between the States is attached as a Schedule to provision is extremely important. We do not want the Act. Page 31 uses the word "Schedule". the Minister to be the only person who However, that Schedule contains eight understands what is occurring. In company with Schedules. To me, that is a drafting nonsense. her officers, the Minister will attend meetings of Ms Robson: Eight sections. the ministerial council, at which certain issues will Legislative Assembly 9467 8 September 1994

Mr FITZGERALD: No. Page 31 says times that they do not want to give up their State "Schedule". Page 48 says "Schedule 1". It is not rights and they do not want to be tied in to "section 1"; it is "Schedule 1". Schedule 2 is on national schemes, and I respect that decision. page 50, and Schedule 8 is on page 70. There Nevertheless, the Opposition of Queensland will are eight Schedules. This seems to be a drafting not—— problem. I am not sure how the law will grapple Mr Ardill: Not bad for an unprepared, off- with that. A person of average intelligence with the-cuff speech, but don't go too long. some parliamentary knowledge should be able to follow the legislation. Mr FITZGERALD: I thank the member. I The Schedule on page 31 states— will wind up by saying that the Opposition does not oppose this legislation, but it has some "The newly-elected Tasmanian reservations about the monitoring of this Government has not yet completed its scheme. consideration of the agreement." Mrs ROSE (Currumbin) (4.30 p.m.): I am How long ago was the Tasmanian Government pleased to be able to speak to the National elected? The legislation appears to be not quite Environment Protection Council (Queensland) up to date. The Schedule refers to— Bill 1994. There is no doubt that in the past "An agreement made the 25th day of decade we have seen an attitudinal change February one thousand nine hundred and within the wider community towards the ninety two." environment. Two years ago, the Australian That is when the agreement was made. We are Bureau of Statistics conducted a survey of now passing this legislation. The agreement is householders to collect information on topics between the Commonwealth of Australia, the relating to the environment. People were asked State of New South Wales, the State of Victoria, about environmental problems and their the State of Queensland, the State of Western response to them and their attitude towards Australia, the State of South Australia, the State environment protection and economic growth. of Tasmania—and there is an asterisk after that The survey showed that 75 per cent of people State which relates to the fact that that were concerned about environmental problems. Government has not yet completed its Three of the top five concerns related to consideration of the agreement—the Australian pollution, air pollution, ocean pollution and fresh Capital Territory, the Northern Territory of water pollution, with 40 per cent of people Australia and the Australian Local Government indicating that their greatest concern was air Association. I ask the Minister to tell us in her pollution. Seventy per cent of people gave reply whether the Tasmanians have agreed to environmental protection and economic growth participate in this agreement or not. equal importance. The results of the survey are not only indicative of general attitudes towards As I stated earlier, the Western Australian the importance of the environment but also Parliament has not agreed to participate in this indicate the high level of concern on agreement. It believes that the legislation is not environmental related issues. suitable for that State. I know that on a number of issues the Western Australian Parliament has With the increased awareness and concern been reluctant to agree to national legislation. I has come an expectation that Governments cite the example of the Family Law Act. In the provide the framework for implementation of past, the Supreme Court of Queensland had to protection measures that are not only effective deal with the question of illegitimate children in and efficient but have long-term effectiveness. the case of a family breakdown because the The formulation of the National Environment Family Law Act covered only the children of a Protection Council is, I believe, a move in the marriage. At that time, unlike the other States, right direction for future management practices in the Western Australian Parliament decided not to the control of the protection of our environment participate in that particular national legislation. Australia-wide. The council will be responsible for Instead, in that State, the judge of the Family Law establishing measures in relation to ambient air Court was also a judge of the Supreme Court. quality, ambient water quality, the protection of Therefore, using the powers vested in him under amenity in relation to noise, site contamination, the two different jurisdictions, the one judge environmental impacts associated with could deal with both categories. hazardous wastes, motor vehicle emissions and the re-use and recycling of used materials. I know that Western Australia is separated The council's objective in setting uniform from the eastern States by the Nullarbor Plain. national environment protection standards goes That is a fairly large expanse of sand. That State a long way to ensuring that Australians enjoy the is nearly a separate country. It is part of a benefits of equivalent protection from air, water, federation. However, Western Australians feel at soil and noise pollution wherever they live in the 8 September 1994 9468 Legislative Assembly country. State and Territory Governments will that readings from Currumbin and North Kirra provide defined strategies with mechanisms to beaches were among the best on the Gold implement those measures set down by the Coast, showing consistently low levels of E coli council. The Bill also includes a reference to the bacteria. Preliminary results showed that median enforcement of laws and other arrangements E coli levels in the surf and at the beach at made for the purpose of implementing the Currumbin were non-existent. Results of the measures. State and Territory Ministers will report reading taken near the stormwater drains at back to the council on their assessment of these beaches reveal that although the implementation and effectiveness of the presence of levels of bacteria is not dangerous, measures. The council will then provide a stormwater is the vehicle for many pollutants to comprehensive report, including its operations enter the ocean. and the reports provided by the States and Territories. A report by the Commonwealth Environment Protection Agency shows that The Chair of the World Commission on stormwater run-off is one of the most significant Environment and Development, Gro Harlem causes of pollution in Australian waterways. As a Brundtland, in her forward to the commission's community, we need to be vigilant in protecting report titled "Our Common Future", states— natural run-off from contamination by pollutants "The environment does not exist as a such as chemicals, oils, paints and pesticides sphere separate from human actions, and herbicides. Eventually these pollutants will ambitions, and needs, and attempts to enter the ocean and will be reflected in the defend it in isolation from human concerns results of water quality monitoring. The results of have given the very word 'environment' a water quality testing and monitoring carried out connotation of naivety in some political by the Queensland Government in conjunction circles. The word 'development' has also with the Gold Coast City Council will undoubtedly been narrowed by some into a very limited provide important data to the National focus, along the lines of 'what poor nations Environment Protection Council in the setting of should do to become richer', and thus again consistent ambient water quality standards. One is automatically dismissed by many in the of the objectives of the National Environment international arena as being a concern of Protection Council in providing uniform national specialists, of those involved in questions of standards is to eliminate those conflicts which 'development assistance'. constantly arise when variations and regulations But the 'environment' is where we all occur from State to State. live; and 'development' is what we all do in As honourable members would be aware, attempting to improve our lot within that the Currumbin electorate borders New South abode. The two are inseparable." Wales. On many occasions in this House, I have The challenge of protecting our raised the anomalies which confront southern environment and putting future management Gold Coasters on a daily basis because we practices in place is one which faces all levels of border another State. The setting of uniform Government. The National Environment standards will be particularly welcomed by our Protection Council recognises the need for local border community. There is a current trend of government input and the Bill provides for the companies from southern States moving into establishment of a National Environment Queensland, and particularly noticeable to Protection Council committee which includes the southern Gold Coasters are a number of participation of a representative of the Australian northern New South Wales companies that are Local Government Association. familiar to us moving over the border into the Gold Coast region. These businesses are The Queensland Labor Government can be coming to Queensland not only because we are proud of its achievements in the protection of a low-tax State; the payroll tax threshold is the environment in this State. The proposed testament to this. For example, a business in the Environment Protection Bill to be introduced into Currumbin electorate which has payrolls of the House later this year reaffirms this between $500,000 and $700,000 does not pay Government's commitment to the implementation of environment protection any payroll tax. Just a couple of kilometres down measures. the road in a southerly direction in New South Wales, companies with similar payrolls do. The environment is an integral part of the The decision to implement national quality of life to southern Gold Coasters, and standards in environmental protection measures residents have seen the efforts that this can only benefit business, particularly those Government has already made in the monitoring businesses that move or expand interstate. It will of water quality in our southern Gold Coast be reassuring to them to know that the standards waterways. The results from this monitoring show in ambient air quality, water quality, noise Legislative Assembly 9469 8 September 1994 pollution, site contamination, hazardous wastes heads of power under section 51 of the and re-using and recycling used materials are the Constitution to achieve particular same. environmentally related policy outcomes. The responsibility of caring for the This approach contrasts with the previous environment rests with each generation and all cooperative approach, which relied on Governments. The decisions that we make about intergovernmental agreements with the States, change must take into account the natural complemented by mirror legislation across all environment we leave for future generations. I jurisdictions. Over this period, the external affairs look forward to the outcomes of the National power has been used to claim sovereignty over Environment Protection Council and believe that the continental shelf, sandmining on Fraser Queensland Minister, Molly Robson, will make a Island has been prevented by the use of the valuable contribution to the council. I support the trade and commerce power, and rainforest in Bill. Queensland and wilderness in Tasmania has Mr LAMING (Mooloolah) (4.40 p.m.): I rise been preserved using legislation relying on the to speak on the National Environment Protection Commonwealth's external affairs power to Council (Queensland) Bill and note that, during implement international treaty obligations. the second-reading speech, the Minister said Financial provisions in the Constitution, that it recognised the commitment of the such as section 96, which allows the Commonwealth and States and Territories to Commonwealth to grant financial assistance to work cooperatively to develop national the States "on any terms it thinks fit", are also environment protection measures and that the reliable means to ensure State compliance with Bill currently before the House establishes the Commonwealth environmental policies. It has National Environmental Protection Council, a been this provision of financial assistance to the ministerial council drawn from all participating States by the Commonwealth in the context of States, Territories and the Commonwealth. I section 96 of the Constitution that has so far understand that decisions by the council, which been most influential in the promotion of is chaired by the Commonwealth, will be by two- environmental management consistent with the thirds majority. The Commonwealth is thus one policies of the Commonwealth. of eight members, under current arrangements, At the Special Premiers Conference in and does not have a casting vote. Measures will Brisbane on 30 October 1990, the question of be disallowed if three or more members vote implementation of a national environment against a proposal put to the council. strategy involving both the Commonwealth and The Minister explained that the Bill the States was discussed. It was resolved that, in proposes to automatically incorporate the order to avoid conflicts, there is a need for a new national environment protection measures made approach that recognises the national or by the council into the State's environmental international aspects of environmental decision protection policies, the subordinate regulations making, but which also recognises the roles of to Queensland's new environmental legislation. the States and Territories. Central to this is the As I understand it, a national environment better definition of the respective roles of the protection measure agreed to by the council may Commonwealth and the States and Territories be disallowed by either House of the with regard to environment policy formulation Commonwealth Parliament, and I can only and implementation. The then Federal Minister assume from that that it does not make provision for the Environment, the Honourable Ros for disallowance by the Queensland Parliament. I Kelly—of whiteboard fame—was, however, would like the Minister to clarify that point. I note reported to have suggested that if the that the council will be assisted by a statutory agreement proved to be ineffective, then the committee of Commonwealth and State officials, Commonwealth might have to look at some form called the National Environment Protection of constitutional amendment to achieve its aims. Council Committee, and by a small secretariat It would appear that the Commonwealth staffed by Commonwealth public servants. wants to achieve legislative power over matters One needs, of course, to look at the to do with the environment. It would appear that background of this Bill to come to some the NEPC would, in fact, override State and understanding as to what is trying to be achieved Territory Cabinet powers to set pollution here. The Commonwealth, of course, has no standards for air, land and water. The NEPC, as I express power under the Constitution in relation understand it, requires State Parliaments to to the environment. Commonwealth policy forfeit their powers to disallow regulations, while making has, however, turned increasingly to the Commonwealth has retained such powers. I environmental matters in the last 20 years, and think this is an important point upon which, once the Commonwealth has sought to use other again, I would like clarification from the Minister. 8 September 1994 9470 Legislative Assembly

As the Minister pointed out in her second- water now supplied to Melbourne consumers reading speech, all States, apart from Western complies with the 1987 guidelines set by the Australia, have shown an intention to pass the Australian Water Resources Council and the appropriate legislation to form the NEPC. One National Water Quality and Management should perhaps examine the reasons why the Strategy. The early draft, "1994 Australian Western Australian Parliament has decided not Drinking Water Guidelines", revised to become a part of the council. Its point of view microbiological quality requirements from the evidently is that the NEPC proposal is 1987 set. symptomatic of ever-increasing Commonwealth Melbourne Water advised that to meet all intrusions into our environmental issues upon the requirements of the new guidelines would which it often has little expertise or practical have cost $500m in new capital costs and experience. The Western Australian additional costs of $35m annually. The result at Government has expressed deep concern about the consumer tap would be a reduction in the the inefficiencies, costs and unnecessary number of coliform bacteria in the water and 100 duplications caused by such Commonwealth per cent compliance with all aesthetic efforts. The Western Australians claim that these requirements. These bacteria, in the absence of intrusions often bring no benefit to the thermo-tolerant bacteria, for example, faecal environment, but confusion, uncertainty and coliforms, are not believed to pose a health risk cost to the community. They claim that harmony to customers. The works would have added $80 is best achieved by consensus in a Federal per annum in cost to the customer, whose system, not by a statutory two-thirds majority. present bill is about $167 to $170 per annum. It has been claimed by Western Australia This issue was resolved at the Melbourne level. that the NEPC would reduce international The espoused reason for the NEPC is to set competitiveness by introducing another layer of uniform national standards. One should ask centralised regulation and new processes of whether this issue will be revisited under NEPC decision making. The administrative efficiency provisions. has been questioned in that NEPC processes Similar problems of localism exist with air would tie up resources of pollution control pollution. The very name "urban smog" indicates agencies. The NEPC's priorities may not even be how pollution issues are site specific. Priorities of local priorities where pollution occurs. The causes and specific solutions for urban smog Western Australian belief is that the desired may differ from city to city across the nation and outcomes for pollution control are accreditation within a State. Some visual pollution may be of each Government's pollution control process confused with photochemical smog and vary with with a consistency of approach to pollution local weather and local topography. One could controls and regulations across Australia. set uniform national standards to meet such Consistency of approaches and consensus are varied circumstances only if standards were set not necessarily the same as uniform, numerical to the lowest common denominator. But many standards. They claim that uniform standards are communities would not accept such general also impracticable because of Australia's lowering of standards. High standards of diversity. pollution control can be set by communities living Obviously, many Australian issues should in the local environment and aware of the local be uniform. There may be market advantage, costs and benefits and setting local goals to legal efficiency, health or equity advantages. Any meet local needs. What is more, they can set concept of national uniformity might seem local priorities. I recall—accurately, I hope—that appealing, but each application should be the Minister claimed recently in answer to a examined for its merits and local relevance. New Government question that Queensland's federalism concepts of uniformity of regulations sewage effluent standards are a bit higher than led to a committee on regulatory reform, which those elsewhere in Australia. Do we lower these reports to the Council of Australian Governments standards, or are the national standards really (COAG). Many worthy moves have been made only a minimum? I believe the Minister might have towards uniformity on many issues and towards made a reply to that question when the member national standards under programs of mutual for Lockyer was speaking. recognition. Topics include registration of As has been stated by the member for various occupations, food standards, labelling Burnett, the Opposition is not opposing this and occupational health and safety. legislation. There could indeed be problems with the Mr FitzGerald: The member for Lockyer; implementation of nationally accepted the member for Burnett didn't speak. environment standards. As an example, Melbourne provides a particular example of the Mr LAMING: I should have rewritten this difficulty of national uniformity. The drinking speech. Legislative Assembly 9471 8 September 1994

Mr J. H. Sullivan: All your own words. conjunction with her colleague the Minister for Mr LAMING: All my own words. I believe it Transport. is important to consider some of the possible Dr CLARK (Barron River) (4.53 p.m.): In disadvantages. Whether the loss to the February 1992, Queensland became a signatory Queensland Parliament of its power over to the Intergovernmental Agreement on the environmental matters, whether not having the Environment, which is an agreement between all opportunity to disallow the regulations that would States and Territories, the Australian Local go through the national council, whether the Government Association and the cost of creating and running the council and its Commonwealth on a range of environmental bureaucracy to try to cover the various policy areas. environmental expectations and aspirations of The decision to prepare such an agreement the differing areas of Australia is better than by was actually made here in Queensland at the the more traditional federalist approach where special Premiers Conference held in Brisbane in people endeavour to reach agreement on October 1990. The IGAE was designed to relevant standards without being locked into too provide a mechanism by which to facilitate a high a standard or too low a standard remains to cooperative national approach to the be seen. Possibly, these concerns will not arise environment, a better definition of the roles of to any great extent. I personally hope they do the respective Governments, a reduction in the not. But it is wise to consider them. Perhaps if number of disputes between the they do, they can be managed and minimised. At Commonwealth and the States and Territories on the end of the day, it is the environment in which environmental issues, greater certainty of we live that is important, not the method we use Government and business decision making, and to achieve it. There are, of course, many better environment protection. environmental matters that must be dealt with at a Federal level. The schedules to the agreement deal with specific areas of environmental policy and Mr Robertson: Like? management including data collection and Mr LAMING: Yes, I do have an example handling, resource assessment, land use here. One such concern is in relation to the lack decisions and approval processes, of regulations on ships' ballast water environmental impact assessment, climate management. My inquiries have revealed that change, biological diversity, national estate, there is evidently no legislation, either at Federal World Heritage, native conservation and national or State level, which controls this. environment protection measures, which is the I table an article from the Bulletin of the subject of this Bill. Australian Littoral Society, which outlines some Under the agreement, the Commonwealth very deep concerns about the damage being and the States acknowledge that there is benefit done to our marine environment by exotic to the people of Australia in establishing national organisms introduced into Australian waters by environmental protection standards, guidelines, the ballast water from overseas ships. Some goals and associated protocols with the species that have been introduced via ballast objectives of ensuring, firstly, that people enjoy water and are known to be out-competing native the benefit of equivalent protection from air, species or altering natural habitats are the water and soil pollution and from noise, wherever European crab in Adelaide, the Asian mussel in they live; and, secondly, that decisions by Perth and Port Phillip Bay, the Japanese shrimp business are not distorted and markets are not in Newcastle, the Japanese goby fish in Sydney fragmented by variations between jurisdictions in and Japanese seaweed in Triabunna in relation to the adoption or implementation of Tasmania. I am not aware that the Environment major environment protection measures. Protection Bill or the Transport Operations The specific areas in which environmental (Marine Pollution) Bill even mention this protection measures are to be developed environmental threat. I would like the Minister to include ambient air quality; ambient marine, advise whether it has been considered to estuarine, and freshwater quality; noise related include clauses in either of these Bills to cover to protecting amenity where variations in this threat, or whether an approach has been measures would have an adverse effect on made to the Federal Environment Minister on national markets for goods and services; general this matter. Perhaps this is just the sort of guidelines for the assessment of site environmental threat that is best addressed by a contamination; the environmental impacts body such as the proposed National associated with hazardous wastes; motor vehicle Environment Protection Council. I ask that the emissions; and, the reuse and recycling of used Minister investigate and address this matter in materials. 8 September 1994 9472 Legislative Assembly

In order to achieve the objectives of the Once again, that is an unfounded fear. As agreement, the Commonwealth and States Federal Environment Minister, John Faulkner, agreed to set up a ministerial council to be known told the Western Australian Environment as the National Environment Protection Council. Minister, the objectives of the NEPC do not Whilst the Australian, New Zealand Environment require identical measures in all parts of the Conservation Council is the Council of country any more than State legislation requires Environment Ministers, it has no executive identical measures across a State. Nor would it authority. If national environmental protection be sensible or practical to seek to do so. measures are to be achieved, it is necessary to Measures targeted to protect national parks and develop a national legislative scheme, both to relatively pristine environments would, if applied confer on the NEPC the executive authority to universally, disrupt or prohibit economic activity. determine national environment protection Conversely, measures targeted to stabilise measures and to ensure automatic and environments degraded by economic activity concurrent application of national measures as would, if applied universally, fall far short of those valid law in each State and Territory. required to protect environmentally sensitive The Bill before the House will provide the areas. mechanism to provide for Queensland's As the Minister explained, NEPC aims to involvement in the National Environment achieve equivalent protection and is required to Protection Council and the formulation of take into account regional environmental national standards. differences in the determination of national Western Australia has unfortunately environment protection measures. This requires decided not to join the other States in a balance between the interests of implementing Schedule 4 of the agreement environmental diversity and the requirement for relating to environmental protection measures uniformity in critical areas affecting human health, through a mistaken belief that the operation of such as drinking water quality and air quality. the NEPC would take away control from Western The legislation here today specifically Australia and perhaps impose inappropriate provides for any regional environmental environmental standards that could have difference to be taken into account, and the adverse economic consequences for Western impact statement that must be prepared for any Australian industries. Since members opposite protection measures must include a statement of have similar reservations, I will address those the manner in which any regional differences concerns. have been addressed. Firstly, the Commonwealth cannot use the I will comment briefly on statements made in NEPC to unilaterally impose its will on the States. the Senate during the debate of the equivalent All decisions of the council require a two-thirds of this legislation. In that instance, the Democrats majority, and the Federal Environment Minister, Senator John Coulter maintained that the lowest who chairs the council, does not have a casting common denominator would take effect, vote, which means there has to be a majority of whereby one standard would exist over the the States in agreement on any issue whole of a State or over the whole of Australia considered by the council. Consideration of local and the standard would be as low as necessary government views is also enshrined in the to take account of the conditions in the most intergovernmental agreement. Furthermore, the polluted areas. Such a response actually legislation establishes a NEPC committee to demonstrates a lack of understanding on his part assist and advise the council, which consists of of the way in which this legislation operates. I nominees of each council members and a hope that members now would appreciate that nominee of the president of the Australian Local there will be, for example, a variety or a number of Government Association who can participate fully national water quality standards, depending on in meetings. whether it is to be applied to water, for example, The involvement of local communities is in a pristine area such as a river going through a guaranteed by the rigorous procedures of public national park or a river going through a highly consultation set out in the legislation which give industrialised urban area or waters in the Barrier people two months to comment on any draft Reef. environmental protection measures and require Again, there will be a standard for air quality the council to have regard to any submissions it in urban areas and another standard in more receives. Another area of concern of Western pristine areas. So we take account of those Australia, and mentioned by the member for necessary differences in each case. Of course, I Mooloolah this afternoon, was that of regional should also mention that there is nothing to differences and the suggestion being that those prevent a State or a region from adopting more could not be accommodated under the scheme. stringent standards if it so desires and if they are Legislative Assembly 9473 8 September 1994 appropriate. That is occurring in far-north subordinate legislation under the forthcoming Queensland with respect to our estuarine Environmental Protection Act, and which will waters, and I will be referring to that later. incorporate the national standards. Any I should say that all States, not just Western administrative problems would also be identified Australia, have shared a common concern that in the annual reporting procedures undertaken. the adoption of national standards could have an So I hope that it will be clear to members that adverse effect on their economy. That is an the National Environment Council provides the understandable concern. The intergovernmental incentive, legislative authority and accountability agreement and the Bill being debated here that framework for the Commonwealth and the States give it effect have built in safeguards in this to work together cooperatively to improve regard in that economic factors must be environmental outcomes nationwide. Those considered at every stage in the development of concerns of Western Australia are really not national standards. For example, sections 3.2 substantiated. and 3.4 of the intergovernmental agreement In the time remaining, I would like to draw to require the integration of economic and members' attention the work on water quality that environmental considerations in the decision- has been undertaken as part of the Trinity Inlet making processes and that any measures Management Program in Cairns. I believe that adopted to protect the environment should be this work will enable Queensland to make a cost effective and not disproportionate to the significant contribution to the formulation of significance of the environmental problems appropriate national water quality standards for being addressed. tropical waters in non-industrialised areas. The Bill also requires the preparation of a The ANZEES standards and other comprehensive impact statement before the international standards were developed for NEPC can make any national environmental temperate waters. A major thrust of TIMP has protection measure. That impact statement must been the development of a set of stringent water include an identification and assessment of the quality standards for tropical estuarine systems. economic and social impact on the community, Over the last 18 months, some $125,000 has including industry, of the proposed measure. been spent on the program by the Department State Ministers are also required to report to the of Environment and Heritage, the Mulgrave Shire council every year on the effectiveness of Council, the Cairns City Council and the Cairns measures adopted and the council itself, taking Port Authority. Those entities are all participating account all of those State reports, must provide agencies in TIMP. As part of this program, a an overall assessment of the implementation and comprehensive water quality monitoring system effectiveness of national environmental has commenced. Initial reports indicate that protection measures. That reporting mechanism greater attention will have to be paid to nutrient would identify any adverse impact on industry levels in the inlet because elevated readings and it would provide the council with the have been recorded for nitrogen and opportunity to respond appropriately and, if phosphorous. necessary, modify protection measures. The legislation also requires a review after five years Readings at the mouth of Trinity Inlet were of operation. So, once again, its impact on taken as indicating a natural level and readings in industry can be reviewed comprehensively. the upper part of the inlet have an excessive level, in some cases as much as 10 times higher A further criticism that may be levelled than the natural levels of nutrients. Of course, against the creation of the NEPC is bureaucratic under certain conditions that could lead to algal overkill and inefficiency. Once again, that is a bloom problems. However, to date, algal bloom concern that is shared by all participating States, has been observed on only one occasion in the not just Western Australia. However, the NEPC upper inlet. Analysis of water samples suggests will not be a large bureaucracy. COAG has that the source of nutrient is both the Mulgrave endorsed only a minimal administrative structure, Shire Council and the Cairns City Council with a small secretariat drawing on the resources sewerage treatment plants that disperse effluent and expertise of participating jurisdictions. into Trinity Inlet and also stormwater run-off from Actually, the financing will be on a 50-50 basis the urban and rural catchment of the inlet. Both between the States and the Commonwealth. the Mulgrave Shire Council and the Cairns City The determination of national environmental Council have recognised the need to upgrade protection measures by the council will replace their sewerage treatment plants, which have not the present duplication in the preparation of always complied with the licence conditions set measures by each of the States and Territories. by the Department of Environment and Heritage. In Queensland's case, currently we are preparing Of course, I should add that those licence environmental protection policies, which will be conditions do not relate to nutrients but rather to 8 September 1994 9474 Legislative Assembly other measures, such as dissolved oxygen. death of coastal fringing reef over a long period. However, both of those councils have committed The work of these agencies on reef waters and millions of dollars to upgrade their plants so that TIMP on tropical estuarine waters will enable us they can avoid being prosecuted by the to get a comprehensive picture of both the Department of Environment and Heritage. As the current state of water quality and what will need Minister has made very clear, she is serious and to be done to improve it and, as I indicated will take action, if necessary, against councils that earlier, assist in the development of a national cannot comply with their licence requirements. standard for tropical waters. Those new plants will have the capacity to, In conclusion, the advantages for initially, remove nitrogen and, in the future, Queensland of this legislation are, firstly, phosphates. However, it is not clear yet whether consistent standards across participating they will meet the TIMP requirements. It is jurisdictions preventing any one State of interesting to note that it seems to be Territory becoming a haven for polluting phosphorous rather than nitrogen that appears industries; secondly, a clear indication to industry to be the predominant nutrient in sewerage and the community of the Government's effluent, with higher levels of nitrogen being commitment to the certainty of consistent found in stormwater run-off. Further studies are environmental standards across Australia; thirdly, being carried out in Trinity Inlet to determine the the provision of a mechanism whereby the relative importance of nitrogen and phosphorous Commonwealth will agree to hand responsibility in freshwater and marine environments, and their for environmental management of role in promoting algal bloom. Commonwealth land and activities to the States; Both the Mulgrave Shire Council and the and, fourthly, the sharing of the cost of Cairns City Council are also exploring alternative developing environmental standards between methods of sewage disposal, such as the the Commonwealth and the States. That cost creation of artificial wetlands and other land would otherwise be replicated by each disposal methods. I encourage them in their jurisdiction in developing its own standards. endeavours, because the current level of I would hope that members Opposite now nutrients is unacceptable. I believe that both see the benefits to be gained by Queensland by councils will need to provide further resources to supporting this legislation. I commend the Bill to ensure that their sewerage plants do not impact the House. adversely upon water quality in Trinity Inlet. I think that there is a growing realisation that a Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) preferable method of sewage effluent disposal (5.10 p.m.): It is a pleasure to rise today in would be on land, if that is at all possible. In support of the National Environment Protection situations where there is a tertiary treatment and Council (Queensland) Bill. As has been stated chlorination stage, it can be quite safe to dispose already, this Bill parallels the Commonwealth's of that effluent into the ocean or rivers. National Environmental Protection Bill which recently was passed by Federal Parliament. The reduction of pollution from non-point sources such as urban stormwater run-off and The Commonwealth's Bill gives effect to the run-off from agricultural land requires greater intergovernmental agreement on the effort through programs such as Landcare and environment, which was an agreement integrated catchment management. Currently, developed by consensus with State TIMP is developing a comprehensive public Governments and endorsed by COAG. Given education campaign to assist in reducing that this Bill parallels the Commonwealth's pollution from these sources. National Environment Protection Council Bill, I thought that, in the circumstances, I would take TIMP erosion control guidelines have also the opportunity to read what various members of been endorsed by the two councils because the Federal Opposition had to say about this Bill urban residential development contributes as a means to gauge what we may have significant sediment load into the inlet, impacting on its aesthetic qualities and increasing the need expected from the Liberal and National Parties in for regular dredging of the inlet by the Cairns this Chamber today. Port Authority at financial and environmental It is fair to say that I found it incredible that a cost. number of Opposition members in the Senate, in Work is also being carried out by GBRMPA debating what is a vitally important piece of and the Australian Institute of Marine Science on legislation, reduced the debate to one of States' water quality, which is critical to the health of the rights—the rights of individual States to set their reef. High levels of sediment load and nutrients own standards on environmental protection. have the capacity to severely damage the reef Once again, the Federal Opposition dusted off and have almost certainly contributed to the and trotted out its predictions of doom and gloom at the apparent loss of States' rights, a Legislative Assembly 9475 8 September 1994 loss that would allegedly occur as a result of the relies on the Hansard transcript of the debates in Federal and State Governments adopting this Chamber to support and explain the principles that will allow all Australians to enjoy legislation. That is what I have done here today. I the benefit of equivalent protection from air, have relayed to the member the advice water, noise or soil pollution no matter where presented to the Senate by the relevant they live. Minister, but that is obviously not good enough. Given that this is one of two major objectives It is either not good enough for him, or he has of this Bill and its parallel in the Federal not read the debate that went on in the Senate Parliament, it would have been a reasonable when the Bill was presented. expectation that not one elected representative Mr FitzGerald: No. anywhere in the Commonwealth would have Mr ROBERTSON: The member has just baulked at the fundamental principles driving this admitted that he has not, and that is his problem. legislation. This was, of course, expecting too much; because, as the Senate Hansard records, I really do not know how anyone could out they came. Admittedly, they were mostly object to this approach to environmental from Western Australia; nevertheless, they were protection. Suggestions that national standards narrow-minded homophobic panic merchants for environmental protection cannot be developed between States is as ludicrous as who had clearly lost the plot as to what their suggestions that State standards for basic, fundamental responsibilities as elected environmental protection cannot be developed representatives are—to make Australia a better between various regions or local authorities in place in which to live. Queensland. Their position on this Bill came as no That is a point that the member for surprise, given the Western Australian State Mooloolah, who unfortunately is not here now, Government's refusal to agree to pass similar failed to appreciate. He was concerned about the legislation to give effect to the agreement differences between the condition of water in reached by all States on 1 May 1992. Melbourne and that in the rest of Australia. He Mr T. B. Sullivan: A bunch of rednecks. was suggesting that this was some kind of fundamental problem associated with Mr ROBERTSON: Indeed. All Australians developing national standards. But what is the have the right to seriously question the actions problem with developing State standards? of the Liberal/National Party Government of States in Australia are geographically very large Western Australia and wonder exactly what they and therefore cover areas of significantly are on about, just as we should seriously different environmental conditions, yet we have question—for the same reasons—the managed for over 100 years to pass legislation to statements made earlier today by the member for protect our environment on a State basis. Lockyer. Only last week, our own Minister for I will quote the advice provided to the Environment and Heritage outlined to this House Western Australian Government by the Federal the findings of a review of sewage treatment Minister for Environment, Senator Fawkner. My plants by her department. Whilst the Minister friend the member for Barron River also quoted reported that the department had already served this paragraph, so I will not repeat it in toto. But it formal notices on 128 sewage treatment works is worth repeating the first paragraph of that throughout Queensland, I think it is important to advice from Senator Faulkner to the Western note that the department is working closely with Australian Government. It stated— operators to try to facilitate a program of growth "The objectives of the NEPC do not and capital development in order to assist require identical measures in all parts of the treatment plant operators to comply with existing country any more than state legislation regulations. requires identical measures across a State That cooperative approach to environmental nor would it be sensible or practical to do management is very much in line with how the so." National Environmental Protection Council In spite of that advice contained in that paragraph already operates. As an article on environmental and subsequent paragraphs already quoted in law in the Waste Management and Environment the Chamber today, Western Australia has journal recently observed— maintained its position. "It is clear the traditional approach to Mr FitzGerald: Do you realise that cooperative federalism in relation to everything he said is not the legislation? environmental matters is still favoured and is Mr ROBERTSON: As is the practice in being vigorously pursued across a wide this House, the member for Lockyer quite often range of fronts." 8 September 1994 9476 Legislative Assembly

Importantly, for those who fear a loss of States' a consideration in the formulation of any rights in passing this complementary legislation environment protection measure. today, it is worth noting what Professor Robert Importantly, the Bill requires that before a Fowler, of the Australian Centre for national environment protection measure can be Environmental Law, in the same article observed made— in relation to the NEPC, namely— the NEPC must give public notice of its "It represents an attempt to achieve intention to do so; greater levels of harmonisation in the development and implementation of a draft of the proposed measure must be environmental protection measures, whilst prepared; and recognising at the same time that the bulk of it must give the reasons for the proposed the responsibility for administration and measure and implementation of environment protection explain why alternative methods of measures rests with the States and achieving the desired outcomes were not Territories. appropriate. With few exceptions, the approach And submissions must be invited from the public being taken is simply an intensification of to contribute to the formulation of the measure. the cooperative federalism methods and This process provides the necessary protection techniques of the past." against so-called "creeping federalism", and So what exactly are Western Australia and some importantly allows for the involvement of the of the members opposite on about? It smells community and in particular peak non- more of politics than of a real commitment to Government organisations to contribute to the environmental protection to me. And for that, the formulation of national environment protection Western Australian Liberal/National Party measures. Government and those members opposite who This process is not dissimilar to the one that have raised similar concerns stand condemned. has been used in the past by our own Minister for When the Bill currently before the House is Environment and Heritage in the preparation of analysed, what becomes apparent in the process Queensland's Waste Management Strategy, a outlined to formulate a national environment process which by virtue of the quality of the protection measure is the number of checks and strategy produced says a lot about the success balances that this Bill contains. of this consultative approach to environmental For example, clause 14 of the Bill gives the management. authority to the NEPC to make measures relating The position taken by Western Australian to ambient air quality, ambient water quality, the senators has been echoed today by the member protection of amenity in relation to noise, site for Lockyer in this House. In his speech to the contamination, environmental impacts House, he raised the concern that, as a result of associated with hazardous wastes, or the reuse this Bill being passed, one of the outcomes will and recycling of used materials. If only the be that Queensland will not be able to pass member for Mooloolah had read the Bill! A lot of legislation that provides less environmental his questions would have been answered simply protection than that provided in the rest of by reading clause 15, which requires the NEPC, Australia. before making a national environment protection measure, to take into account factors such as— I only wish that those members of environmental groups were in the gallery today whether the measure is consistent with the to listen to what the member for Lockyer had to agreement; say, because I am sure that they would be the economic and social impact of the walking away from any further discussions with measure; the National Party with respect to the distribution the simplicity and effectiveness of the of preferences at the next State election. It is administration of the measure; clear from what the member for Lockyer said that the Nationals are prepared to trade off the most effective means of achieving the environmental protection for some form of desired environmental outcome; and economic advantage over other Australian relevant international agreements to which States. Australia is a party. The environment is not a tradeable So the problems that the member for Mooloolah commodity. This Bill seeks to ensure that no had about the quality of Melbourne water in State tries to position itself in a way so that relation to that of the rest of Australia is obviously economic advantage is gained at the expense of the environment. For that reason alone, this Bill Legislative Assembly 9477 8 September 1994 deserves the support of all members of the Charleville, Cunnamulla, Goondiwindi and St House, although it is clear that the Opposition George all contribute their share of chemicals has some reservations about its fundamental into the waterways, just as the cotton industry aims. does. There is no technical reason why water Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (5.20 p.m.): This does not receive tertiary treatment after urban Bill will ensure that essential environmental use, just as it does before urban use. It is a matter protection is provided Australia-wide to conform of finance. That is the crucial issue. to a standard agreed upon on a Federal basis. I In the Schedule to the Bill, the first section is am optimistic that Western Australia will the intergovernmental agreement, and I totally overcome its problems and enter into the agree with point 3.5.4 of that Schedule, which agreement. If not, we are still protected by the states that users of goods and services should Nullarbor Plain and the Tanami Desert, but here's pay prices based on full costs including, amongst hoping that that State eventually sees sense and other costs, the cost of ultimate disposal of joins the rest of Australia. This legislation will also wastes. While this applies most importantly to require States and local authorities to observe chemicals, it applies very much to waste water. It international agreements entered into by the is essential that major conurbations such as Commonwealth Government. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane upgrade their There can be no argument that many urgent water treatment, not only because of residents' measures are long overdue to protect planet use of chemicals but also because of the Earth from the depredations of the human race industrialisation of those centres. or, rather, the privileged section of it, which has Not only is there a need for a better standard hastened the destruction of the balance of of effluent; there is also a need to reduce the nature keeping the Earth livable. Great ignorance amount of water harvested by reuse of such and carelessness have hastened the demise of huge quantities of a scarce resource in the driest many other species. However, this Bill, while of continents. I drew attention to this in my essential to our ultimate survival, comes at a risk. dissenting Public Works Committee report on That risk is to the personal and collective rights of the Wolffdene dam five years ago on 28 Queenslanders, by surrendering some September 1989. On numerous occasions, I autonomy to a two-thirds majority of the State, have drawn attention to the fact that one-third of Territories, local government and Federal all the water harvested at Mount Crosby and Government. North Pine is expelled as sewerage effluent, An example that comes to mind is the most of it within a kilometre of the major industrial attempt some time ago to impose misguided plants at the mouth of the Brisbane River which restrictions on the Lake Eyre Basin. It is quite also use one-third of the potable water produced conceivable that the Murray-Darling Basin could at the headworks. We cannot continue to cover also become an issue, and this must be faced. I good farmland with dams for a population would be the first to concede that much should explosion in south-east Queensland, nor to use be done within Queensland to protect the entity this scarce resource so unwisely. of that great system, both in land care and in At present, of course, Brisbane River better water quality provisions. system water is providing water in the Murray- This brings me to one of my favourite Darling system as that water is pumped over the hobby-horses and a subject that I know has been Great Divide to provide the urban supply of of great concern to the Minister, Molly Toowoomba. Robson—a subject that she is addressing, I Mr FitzGerald: That's stretching it a bit. hasten to add. I refer to the treatment of urban Mr ARDILL: No, it is not. Almost the entire waste water. While most of the media attention use of water in Toowoomba comes from the on this subject is centred on the discharge of Brisbane River system. In drought times such as effluent into the ocean, they universally neglect recent years, this is virtually the only water the effect of discharging unsatisfactorily treated available for reuse in Dalby, St George, Chinchilla sewage into inland waterways and onto the land. and other Western Downs areas after use in The issue of ocean outfall being addressed so Toowoomba, as the Condamine above Oakey trenchantly takes emphasis away from the even Creek has been almost totally without flow for more important issue of proper, satisfactory most of the past two years. treatment and reuse of waste water. Mr FitzGerald: You said it's all flowing In the Condamine/Barwon/Warrego system, down there from the Brisbane catchment into the which are the furthest headwaters of the great Murray-Darling. There is hardly any. You are Murray-Darling system, we have many large to saying that Oakey Creek hardly flows. That is medium urban areas, as well as small towns. Toowoomba, Warwick, Stanthorpe, Dalby, Roma, 8 September 1994 9478 Legislative Assembly where the run-off from Toowoomba comes. You the advantages of public transport are can't have it both ways. considered but discarded because of cost. Mr ARDILL: The member misheard what I The National Environment Protection said. I said that this is virtually the only water Council to be set up under this Bill will be able to available for reuse in Dalby, Chinchilla, St George consider all of the following problems: use of and other Western Downs areas after use in water and water quality; reuse and recycling of Toowoomba, as the Condamine above Oakey materials; noise; site contamination; and Creek has been almost totally without flow for hazardous wastes. most of the past two years. The water that comes On the subject of hazardous wastes, I must out of the Brisbane system is used in say that Queensland is doing more under this Toowoomba, then flows down Gowrie and Oakey Labor Government than has been done before Creeks into the Condamine. or is being done in other States. The disposal of Mr FitzGerald: In Brisbane you get the the dried chemical residue from Willawong has Gatton sewerage, don't you? answered a longstanding and extremely urgent need for improvements to a system which was Mr T. B. Sullivan: Only when Parliament not working properly for two decades. We do not sits. know what damage has been caused since it Mr ARDILL: The member for Chermside is became obvious over 10 years ago that the quite correct. system was not working. It is working now, and I Mr FitzGerald: The sewerage from Gatton am pleased to be a part of the organisation comes down here, that's true. which, together with the Murilla Shire and the Brisbane City Council, is supervising the landfill Mr ARDILL: I might mention that I have not disposal at Gurulmundi. seen too much flow in Lockyer Creek below Gatton in recent times, either. In the next few years, I expect to see an extension of this activity to other areas of Clearly, issues such as these must be Queensland and other States. I would like to considered in the next few years, and this Bill will mention the very worthwhile efforts of the facilitate that consideration and take account of member for Kurwongbah in setting up and being the urgency. This Bill will also allow more forceful involved in that particular organisation at action to be taken on air pollution and the most Gurulmundi. I congratulate the honourable pressing aspect of air pollution—the emissions member on the work that she did in that area. from motor vehicles. It may also put greater pressure on commercial operators and I have mentioned three aspects of the authorities disposing of chemical waste by Bill—there are others—site contamination, noise incineration. If it does, I welcome it. and recycling. I would like to congratulate the Minister for leading the field in those particular I turn to the major source of air areas. When Molly Robson became the Minister pollution—motor vehicles. Since 1970, there for Environment, she said that she was going to has been a major build-up of nitrogen oxides, concentrate on those particular areas, and she carbon monoxide and other noxious emissions has done so. Queensland is certainly equal to or in Brisbane and, despite emission controls on leading Australia in the recycling of household vehicles, this has continued to rise. Many of our wastes, and it is very good to see that this is air pollution problems which residents blame on being tackled on a uniform and organised basis local operations and sources are in fact the and does not require the householder to take backward and forward movement of exhaust the initiative, as was the case before the advent gases, seen as a brown haze in the sky during of Molly Robson. late winter, spring and early summer. During the afternoon, this gas accumulates over Brisbane, Site contamination is another area that has drifts out over Moreton Bay overnight and been tackled in Queensland and a lot of work has returns together with the oil refinery emissions been done to establish what areas are affected on the sea breeze next afternoon. The velocity by that. The National Environment Protection of the wind decides who will be most affected Council will be basically a State-controlled body and whether it is dispersed or mixed with that with six of the 10 members, eventually, if afternoon's peak-hour vehicle emissions. I have Western Australia joins in, representing the been discussing this problem with environmental States. The Commonwealth Parliament will only agencies since the early 1970s, with no solution have one representative. The effectiveness of in sight. Idling and slow-moving vehicles are the the council will rely on its constituent parts. worst source of this. It must be tackled on a Reasonable consideration of the rights of the nationwide basis, and the stupidity of economic States should be ensured by the number of rationalism is nowhere more apparent than when State representatives on the council and the quality of that representation. Our Minister will Legislative Assembly 9479 8 September 1994 ensure that the needs of Queensland are heard with respect to protecting the environment. The and listened to. I wholeheartedly support the Bill. Commonwealth Constitution does not directly Mr WELFORD (Everton) (5.34 p.m.): I am authorise the Commonwealth to legislate with pleased to speak in support of what I believe is respect to environmental matters. It is not an an historic piece of legislation coming before the element specifically within a head of Queensland Parliament. The National constitutional legislative authority of the Environment Protection Council (Queensland) Commonwealth. That is why the cooperation Bill 1994 constitutes Queensland's contribution between the States and the Commonwealth, in and the role Queensland will play in the national particular the cooperation which I think is environmental protection framework of laws. It exemplified by the introduction of this Bill here puts into effect our State's responsibilities in today, is so significant a step on our State's part implementing the National Environmental and on the part of the Commonwealth. Protection Council Act of the Commonwealth The Bill also foreshadows the introduction in which came into operation this year. our Parliament of our own Environmental This Bill is, to my mind, one of the most Protection Bill—an Act which will set standards important mechanisms that we have seen in the for Queensland and implement the standards history of environmental law in this country. It not which the National Environment Protection only brings about some measure of uniformity in Council will establish in cooperation with our important measures to protect our environment State and other States as the council goes about but also marks, I think, the first in a series of its future work. I am pleased to see that the historic stepping stones as this State and this Australian Local Government Association is also nation approach the twenty-first century looking represented on the NEPC committee, which at the importance of environmental issues and comprises nominees of the Ministers of all the the importance of the human and natural States as well. environment on which all of us in this country The legislation effectively provides a depend. mechanism for our State to adopt measures Australia is geographically a large country which are agreed to by the National Environment and much of it, of course, is uninhabited; it is a Protection Council. The National Environment dry country. If honourable members look at the Protection Council is, of course, the latest name nostalgic or sentimental descriptions of given to what was originally proposed as a Australia's geography and climate, they will often National Environment Protection Authority. It was be led to believe that it is a harsh, hard and one of the two limbs of national action proposed unyielding country. However, the reality is that by the Federal Government to deal with the impacts of human settlement and the impacts environmental protection matters. One limb was of agriculture have exposed the Australian the Commonwealth Environment Protection continent and its climate as an especially Agency, which I understand is soon to change its vulnerable and fragile environment which all name to something like Environment Protection Australians have a responsibility to respect. Australia—EPA—and the other limb was the National Environment Protection Authority. So it This Government—the first Government was, to use the acronyms, CEPA and NEPA. since the establishment of the Queensland CEPA has been established and is operating at Parliament—is taking seriously the responsibility the national level under Commonwealth of protecting the environment within our legislation and NEPA is now being formed, as boundaries more than any previous Government this legislation indicates, as the NEPC—the in Queensland's history and, I would suggest, National Environment Protection Council. more than most other Governments in any other State of Australia since the war. On behalf of the As other members have indicated, the people of Queensland, the current Minister, Ms council allows our State to work with other States Robson, and the Queensland Government are in setting national environmental protection taking seriously the responsibility of protecting standards with respect to air quality; water quality; the environmental amenity of our State for all environmental amenity in relation to noise; Queenslanders. guidelines for the assessment of contaminated sites; the environmental impacts and measures This Bill is a consequence of our State to deal with hazardous wastes; the re-use and being a signatory to the Intergovernmental recycling of used materials; and, subject to Agreement on the Environment, and I am agreements being developed in conjunction pleased to see that Schedule 4 of that with the National Road Transport Commission, agreement is contained in the Schedule to this provisions with respect to motor vehicle noise Bill. The Intergovernmental agreement on the and emissions. As anyone reading this Bill can Environment was, of itself, a landmark measure see, these are key issues to be dealt with in of progress in Commonwealth/State relations terms of the brown environmental issues that 8 September 1994 9480 Legislative Assembly

Governments have to address in this country in I wholeheartedly endorse the trend in the years ahead. Queensland to take more seriously the very According to clause 14 of the Bill, the important issues of environmental protection, protection measures can comprise a number of particularly as they relate to the impact on human different forms. They could be a protection health. This Bill is a clear commitment by our standard, a goal, a guideline or a protocol. It is not Government—a commitment which, I dare say, entirely clear from the Bill precisely how these might well never have been given by any other different forms of environmental protection Government in this State—and we can pay due measures are distinguished from one another. credit to the current Minister for her sterling Presumably, that will become evident from the persistence in making sure that, when it comes way in which the council commences issuing its to environmental protection, Queensland is protection measures. The measures are issued indeed a leading State. by virtue of an instrument in writing; but before Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— that can occur, this Bill sets out a comprehensive Minister for Environment and Heritage) process that entrenches the requirement for (5.45 p.m.), in reply: I thank all members for their public consultation in respect of any contributions to this debate on what is a very environmental protection measure that is important piece of legislation that honours an proposed. agreement made by Ministers under the IGAE in I note that clause 15 of the Bill also requires 1992. Queensland is the first State to implement the council to have regard to a number of specific this legislation. I think we can be fairly proud of measures before proposing or making a national that. I thank my departmental officers for the work environmental protection measure. Firstly, the that they have put into meeting the deadlines measure has to be consistent with the they were given. They have done an exceptional intergovernmental agreement on the job, and I am very grateful for that. Similarly, my environment. It must have regard to ministerial staff have worked very hard on this Bill. environmental, economic and social impacts of This Bill signifies not just an agreement the measure. It must also have regard to the between States about the environment, it simplicity, efficiency and effectiveness of the signifies a cooperative approach between the administration of the measure and the most States and the Commonwealth Government. It efficient means of achieving the desired also signifies that they can work together and environmental outcomes of the measure. The achieve goals when we need to address issues measure must also have regard to its relationship such as the effect on the environment of the to existing intergovernmental mechanisms and practices of our modern life. I believe that relevant international agreements to which members have generally addressed that notion Australia is a party. As well, regional differences very well. That is what it is really about. throughout Australia must be taken into account This Government has a commitment to before a measure is made. protecting the environment. It has a commitment If the council has an intention to make an to teaching that we can live off the interest on our environmental protection measure, it must be environment and leave the capital alone. As we proposed as a draft, and an impact statement all know, a lot of work must be done in restoring, must be prepared. I imagine that, with respect to reconstituting and maintaining our environment clause 15, specific reference in proposing the in a state that will carry us and all later generations measure needs to be given to environmental, and their needs well into the future. This Bill economic and social impacts of the measure and represents the first step towards that goal. that a statement to that effect will be available for I shall address some of the concerns raised people to comment on in the consultation by honourable members. Most of these process prior to the measure being adopted. concerns have been repeated throughout the This Bill also clears the way for national debate. I believe that the first concern that one environmental protection measures to become can quite comfortably come to grips with is the automatically adopted by our State and other fact that the Commonwealth is not trying to take States under their respective EPA legislation. It over the legislation of other States. The is important to note that this Bill, of itself, does Commonwealth has been seeking to provide not automatically make enforceable in some certainty to the community at Queensland environmental protection measures large—whether it be the business community or adopted by the NEPC. That will still be required consumers on the ground generally—about the to be given effect under the proposed fact that one can move around this nation and be Environmental Protection Act, which our State is assured of similar standards of living in all States. yet to introduce. At this point, I remind members that Australia is a Federation of States and that, as a Legislative Assembly 9481 8 September 1994

Federation, it has the advantage that it can offer He has a very clear responsibility. Senator certainty. One of the great outcomes of the Faulkner is the current Minister. NEPC Bill is that no State can be a pollution I pay tribute to the work of Ros Kelly, the haven. I am sad that Western Australia has not former Minister. She was a driving force behind determined that it will become a signatory. It is a getting the NEPC to the stage it is at now. She signatory to the IGAE, but it will not implement ensured that, where possible, all States would Schedule 4. I think that is sad. I also think it is a comply. I believe she has done very well to get all very regressive step for that State, which has States bar one involved in it. That tribute from adopted rather a progressive environmental Queensland should be on record. In terms of the protection approach. It is now dismantling that by cost—the cost of running the committee not becoming part of the NEPC structure. I do structure will be borne 50 per cent by the hope that that State will overcome the fears that it Commonwealth Government with the remaining has expressed and fall into line with the rest of 50 per cent shared by the States. That is an the States in adopting this very sensible equitable arrangement. measure. Mr FitzGerald: The second-reading The standards about which members have speech states that it is shared on a population expressed some concern are minimal, but those basis. minimal standards will be designed to address the impact on the environment of the practices of Ms ROBSON: Of course, it is shared on a modern living. From that one can assess that the population basis, that is right. I will address the standard that we would implement in Mount Isa ballast water example that was raised by the obviously would not be the same standard as member for Mooloolah. He quite clearly identified that implemented, for example, in Canberra. a very important issue that has been occupying Accordingly, those standards will talk about the ANZEC committee, the Australian and New impact; they will talk about what any given Zealand Environment and Conservation environment can tolerate and will be designed Ministers Council. We are very concerned. It is a accordingly. So they are actually ambient Federal issue and responsibility, but it has been standards. That is an appropriate way to go, raised repeatedly, and in fact in the next couple because there is not one set of hard-crunch of weeks we will see some recommendations figures applied right across the nation; it must be coming forward for consideration on that issue. appropriate for the area to which it relates. What Sewage standards were addressed and I we are trying to achieve—regardless of what the have clearly said that this Government has standard is—is to protect our environment and adopted fundamentally fairly tough standards. start to understand just how much it can take We use as a basis for consideration the National before it starts to degrade. That is what the Health and Medical Research Council standards NEPC is all about. and the ANZEC standards and we try to do them I believe members have addressed the a bit better than that. It is a fairly high standard. It range of issues that the Bill does encompass. is nothing like the standards adopted in New Various members of my committee have spoken South Wales. We do not allow the primary-only to it. The member for Currumbin, who is a very treatment of sewage in this State; it must be to a valued member of my committee, made a minimum standard of secondary treatment. We significant contribution. Given that she lives so are moving toward, where possible, upper close to the New South Wales border, she secondary treatment and into tertiary treatment. realises just how important it is that businesses The member for Barron River talked about moving across those two borders and from other the implementation of the Trinity Inlet borders further south have some certainty as to Management Plan. Quite clearly, a sensitive area what they can expect when they come to such as that will need to be very carefully Queensland and that this Bill will offer them that. monitored. This Bill will allow that to happen. She The member for Mooloolah raised a few talked about ambient standards and their concerns. I think I have addressed most of them. implementation in that area and about the The notion that the Commonwealth can override sensitivity, for example, of the Great Barrier Reef, is one that I hope the member will understand is in comparison with Moreton Bay. Honourable not the case. The potential for disallowance by members can see how we would need to have either House of the Commonwealth is an ambient standards in place. essential component of the Bill. Quite clearly, all The member for Sunnybank spoke of States can have legislation, but it cannot be cooperation between licensed sewerage plant uniform unless it passes through both of the operators, treatment plant operators and this Commonwealth Parliament's structures. It is up to Government. Of course, that is a very important the Federal Minister to argue the Bill through, point to make. It is easy to draw a similarity and he has that brief via the Commonwealth Act. between that approach and the NEPC State 8 September 1994 9482 Legislative Assembly cooperative arrangements and their approach the House. The first amendment moved by the toward environmental management. Minister deletes the words— The member for Archerfield, who is a "AN AGREEMENT made on the 25th day of passionate defender of the environment, and a February one thousand nine hundred and very valuable member of my committee, talked ninety two." about the importance of maintaining and The Schedule then lists all of the States. A restoring the balance of nature. That is what we second amendment rectifies the fact that the are talking about when we refer to State of Tasmania was listed conditionally in the environmentally sensitive areas and ESD Schedule, because it has now signed the principles. He spoke of waste water treatment agreement. and reusing water. I reiterate what I have said repeatedly—we waste far too much water. We The Intergovernmental Agreement on the flush down the drain a very expensive Environment will now state that the agreement commodity and we are working very hard in the was actually agreed to on "the 1st day of May" community to educate people that they must not 1992, whereas I would have thought that all of continue to do that. People have to value water. the other States had agreed on 25 February 1992, and only Tasmania agreed on 1 May 1992. The member for Everton, Mr Welford, talked I do not want to nitpick, but the agreement was about the importance of this mechanism for originally signed on 25 February and the world is achieving uniformity. Of course, Mr Welford is an going to be told that it was signed on 1 May. I environmental activist of some repute. He has quite accept that Tasmania may have signed on been long involved in environmental law reform 1 May, but I am certain that Queensland signed and increasing community awareness of the on 25 February. Is the document really reflecting need to understand the importance of protecting what happened or is this a case of drafting our environment and learning to live off the convenience? In a contract, the date of an interest and leaving the capital intact. agreement cannot be altered without drawing up Mr FitzGerald: And he loves koalas, too, another contract. Is this another contract? I would doesn't he? like to know. Ms ROBSON: And he loves koalas; he Ms ROBSON: According to our advice, loves all wildlife. Again, I wish to thank members the date of the last signature on the agreement is for their support. I wish to thank the Opposition the date of the agreement. It was signed in May for their support of this Bill. They have indicated by Tasmania because that State had an election that they will not oppose it. I appreciate that. and there was a time lapse between the former Government leaving and the new Government Motion agreed to. accepting and agreeing to be part of that agreement. Therefore, it was signed on 1 May. Committee Amendments agreed to. Hon. M. J. Robson (Springwood—Minister Schedule, as amended, agreed to. for Environment and Heritage) in charge of the Bill reported, with amendments. Bill. Clauses 1 to 64, as read, agreed to. Third Reading Schedule— Bill, on motion of Ms Robson, by leave, read Ms ROBSON (5.55 p.m.): I move the a third time. following amendments— Sitting suspended from 5.59 to 7.30 p.m. "At page 31, lines 4 and 5— omit, insert— LANG PARK TRUST BILL 'AN AGREEMENT made the 1st day of May Second Reading one thousand nine hundred and ninety Debate resumed from 30 August (see two'." p. 8958). "At page 31, line 13— Mr VEIVERS (Southport) (7.30 p.m.): I omit, insert— have to say that the Opposition will be opposing this legislation, because it seeks to exert total 'THE STATE OF TASMANIA of the seventh ministerial control over the running of Lang Park. part,'." The Opposition is also opposing this Bill Mr FITZGERALD (5.56 p.m.): I am a little because it will inflict on the stadium a board of confused with regard to the amendments before trustees who will be little more than puppets of Legislative Assembly 9483 8 September 1994 the Minister, which is the way Government forced—to enter into a cost-plus contract for the members like it—full control but no grandstand construction. That was an open- accountability; full input but no responsibility; the ended contract that provided for triple shifts, ability to shoot the messenger when required to add-ons and a host of other goodies. I bet the cover up for the excesses and managerial construction company could not believe its luck. incompetence of this Government. Workplace health and safety regulations and Lang Park has been a perfect example of noise restrictions were all thrown out the back such control. In recent days, we have seen the door straight into Hale Street. spectacle of the former Chairman of the Lang Mr Purcell: Rubbish! Rubbish! Park Trust go public and talk about his working Mr VEIVERS: The man with the braces relationship with the Minister. We have seen the would know all about it. In effect, the tabling of the Auditor-General's report into the Government was saying to the construction financial management of the Lang Park Trust, company, "Look, we want this project completed which was put up by the Minister himself. That by 19 June no matter what. You go out and build was a miracle in itself. We have also seen the the stand and do not worry about the cost." Of continual bickering and brawling in the Labor course, we on this side of the Chamber have Party at both State and council level over the become used to this sort of financial future of Rugby League in Brisbane. management. We have become used to the way The game of Rugby League has been the this Minister and this Government have handled unfortunate loser in a two-year battle between events, such as the Indy, and how the Treasurer the State Government and the Brisbane City oversaw the Government's investment in Council. It has been a battle—— Compass Airlines. That was $10m down the An honourable member interjected. chute. It came as no surprise to the Opposition that the Government had a cost-plus grandstand Mr VEIVERS: The member did not play contract, budgeted originally for around $15m, sport. It was a battle between Wayne Goss and with a total project cost of some $28m. According Jim Soorley; between Bobby Gibbs and David to the Government, that was to be the bottom Hinchliffe; between Lang Park and the ANZ line. The Government's bottom line would be a Stadium and, most recently, between the $5m investment coming from money derived Crushers and the Broncos. The battle has from poker machines. The rest is history. A run of politicised Rugby League, which is very sad bad weather—— because I love the game dearly. It has been a petty battle between so-called grown men, all of Mr Beattie interjected. whom should have known better and should Mr VEIVERS: The member for Brisbane have been able to put aside their egos for one Central would not run out of sight on a foggy minute and let the best interests of Rugby night. One must say that poor project League and Queensland's taxpayers prevail. But management, and management in general, saw no; instead we have seen millions of taxpayers' the cost of the grandstand blow out from a dollars squandered on a redevelopment, which budgeted $15m to an actual $28m. They tell me was undertaken with undue haste, under an that the member is still walking in the morning, exclusive, open-ended contract, basically but I say that it is not evident. He had better unparalleled in the history of the State—all for double the distance. The Government had to get the simple purpose of denying the the project completed in time for the third State council-controlled ANZ Stadium an opportunity of Origin match on 20 June. We had Origin to prove itself with a State of Origin match. madness. The history of this sad affair goes back to The haste and bad management can be 1992 when the Government approved the three- traced back to the feud between the Premier and stage redevelopment of Lang Park. Instead of the Lord Mayor. I have had to leave the Minister setting a realistic and achievable deadline for the out of this one, because that is the way it went. completion of the project, the Government The Premier was none too pleased that the Lord dictated—and I repeat, dictated—that the entire Mayor had joined in alliance with the Broncos in project be completed prior to the staging of the the redevelopment and leasing of the QE II third State of Origin match in June this year. That Stadium at Nathan. According to the Premier's was an unrealistic timetable and one which, from view of Rugby League, Lang Park was to be the day one, was always going to result in increased home of Rugby League, and what right does the costs and a massive blow-out in the total project Lord Mayor have in sticking his nose into our bill. stadium? So the Premier began his celebrated In order to meet this Government-imposed brawl with Jim Soorley and the Broncos, so much deadline—I cannot tangle with the truth—the so that he picked up his bat and ball and Lang Park Trust was forced—and I repeat, resigned as the Broncos' patron and No. 1 fan. 8 September 1994 9484 Legislative Assembly

The departure of the Broncos and the growing expenditure of an additional $13m in taxpayers' appeal of the ANZ Stadium meant that the money was for one game of football. That is a Government was faced with the prospect of an point that is acknowledged by no one other than empty Lang Park gathering dust. So the decision Bruce Hatcher, the outgoing—and I say that to redevelop it was taken. clearly, outgoing— Lang Park Trust chairman, The Opposition really has no major concern who stated— about the decision to upgrade Lang Park. "Time compression costs on the Although it is situated in a high density area project could have accounted for $6 million where parking is a problem, and its small site will of the extra costs." always limit its capacity, the Opposition was of the Of course, Mr Hatcher has gone which, view that a modest—— some might say, was a smart move. He would Mr Purcell: Great public transport, though. have heard, as most others had, that he was set Mr VEIVERS: The member cannot even to become the fall guy for Government and, in drive. The Opposition was of the view that a particular, the Minister. He said as much in not modest upgrade was appropriate. However, the commenting on speculation of his bitter Opposition will never agree with the way in which relationship—and I say "bitter"—with the Minister the Government went about doing the job. for Sport, Bob Gibbs, as a result of the cost After committing itself to a then $28m blow-out. So Mr Hatcher beat the Minister to the upgrade, it was clear that every opportunity for punch. He knew that he was in the Minister's revenue had to be taken, and I say that openly. sights, and he knew that he was set to get the With Queensland scheduled to host one State blame for what has been dreadful financial of Origin match in 1994, it was clear that the management and ministerial control by this alternative was to play the game at the Government and this Minister. One does not redeveloped Lang Park or move it to the ANZ have to search too widely to have this confirmed. Stadium. In this Government's mind, a move to One has only to look at the Auditor-General's the ANZ Stadium was out of the question. That certificate attached to the Lang Park Trust would give the ANZ Stadium and its 60 000-plus accounts tabled in this place last week. In his capacity an opportunity to prove itself with the audit certificate, Mr Rollason observed— State of Origin match and, therefore, get the "The books were not maintained in a jump on Lang Park as a venue for future satisfactory manner throughout the financial matches. Members should not think that the year to provide a reliable basis for financial council would not have taken that opportunity management purposes." and pushed it down our throats. It would have It is a pity that some members on our side of the been one up for Jim Soorley, one up for the ANZ House do not listen to that, too. He went on to Stadium and one up for the Broncos. Although it say— was easy to move a State of Origin match to Melbourne, we in Queensland could not bring "The financial statements were not ourselves to move one State of Origin match prepared on a timely basis." across the river. If this year's third State of Origin But most concerning is his statement titled— and match had been played at the ANZ Stadium, the I say this seriously—"Inherent Uncertainty new grandstand would have been completed to Regarding Future Liquidity". He stated—— a sensible timetable in time for the Legends of League clash last Friday night. Mr Beattie: If that article hadn't been in the paper, you wouldn't have had a speech. Mr Beattie: Were you there? Mr VEIVERS: There is something I have Mr VEIVERS: No. I was very done: I have earned my living, instead of driving disappointed. Saab Turbos provided to me by unsuspecting Mr Beattie: You weren't invited. people. Mr VEIVERS: No. If I was, I would not have Mr Rollason stated— been able to play. At least I am honest enough to "While I have been provided with be able to say that. Lang Park would have also appropriate documentation detailing the been ready in time for the Brisbane grand final future cashflows and liquidity of the Trust, and the Crushers, but not in time for the State of there is uncertainty at this point as to Origin, and that was the sticking point. whether funding of $2.754 million can be realised from the sale of corporate Mr Welford: They could have used you as accommodation during 1994 or if the final a goal post. cost of the redevelopment can be limited to Mr VEIVERS: The honourable member $28m." should stick to swimming. The reason for the Legislative Assembly 9485 8 September 1994

This is not me saying this; this is Rollason in his Mr Gibbs: They won't be there. auditor's report. Mr VEIVERS: I accept that.The Bill has as Mr Budd interjected. its sole purpose the desire to pass the financial Mr VEIVERS: I would be worried about mismanagement buck to the outgoing board—to koalas and open cuts, if I were the honourable remove the council from the board and to make member. sure representatives—and the Minister says that this will not happen—are put in decision-making He continued— positions. So I thank the Minister for coming "If these cashflow projections are not clean. met, the Trust could experience short term I have already raised in this House the use of liquidity problems." the State of Origin series as an incentive for the That audit opinion was provided before—I purchase of Crusher season tickets. No other emphasise "before"—the project costs blew out Rugby League club has enjoyed this privilege, by more than $13m. I know that, when we take a and no other Rugby League club has been able vote and divide, we will get our tails slammed, but to package its season tickets with a State of the Government cannot get away from that fact. Origin match and a test—and also membership of That audit opinion is a damning indictment on its club with State of Origin match or test tickets. I this Government and the way the Minister has am sure that the North Queensland overseen the Lang Park Trust. It raises serious Cowboys—or the Seagulls, for that questions about the way the Government went matter—would appreciate a similar opportunity. about the redevelopment process, because the Mr Gibbs: What? A New South Wales Auditor-General is questioning the initiative Rugby League club? A club that is over the costings, which he infers were not appropriate. border and has had poker machines since the In attachments to this Bill, the Government 1950s? claims that the existing Act does not state the Mr VEIVERS: They are all in the Winfield expectations of the Government with regard to Cup. They all come up from down there. Is the the operation of the trust. It goes onto say that it Minister going to give the North Queensland is essential that the trust operate in an Cowboys the same thing? appropriate and accountable manner. More passing of the buck! The reason—and, I say, by Mr Gibbs: You're kidding. far the major reason— for the Lang Park debacle Mr VEIVERS: Is the Minister going to give was this Government's insistence that the project the North Queensland Cowboys—— be completed in time for the third State of Origin Mr Gibbs: You should speak to them and match. It was a political decision imposed on the see how happy they are with what this trust by the Government. Government has done for them. At the end of the day, it is the Minister who is Mr VEIVERS: Happy? What about the accountable. It is the Minister who is responsible people out in Queensland who want to have a and it is the Minister who should have ensured look at a State of Origin match? There will be public accountability. But he did not. This is why nothing left except outer tickets, if they are lucky this Bill is a farce. Take, for instance, the under the system that the Crushers are Minister's claim in his second-reading speech using—— that the composition of the new board will be designed to reduce the likelihood of conflicts of Mr Purcell: We will build a couple more interest; yet in the Bill a person is not taken to grandstands. Don't worry. have a direct or indirect financial interest in an Mr VEIVERS: What for? Another cost issue merely because the issue involves a tenant blow-out? The Government has blown it already of which the person is a member, associate or and it has not even completed the southern or employee. northern bleachers. Turn it up! Of course, this provision is included in the On a pamphlet distributed during the State Bill so that representatives of the Crushers can of Origin match, Crusher season ticket holders be appointed to the board of trustees. If that were offered packages ranging from premium to does not represent an undisputed conflict of family at prices ranging from $339 to $160. interest, then I do not really know what does. Mr Gibbs: Disgraceful! Mr Gibbs: I can assure you that there will Mr VEIVERS: The Minister said, be no representative of the Crushers appointed "Disgraceful." I think he meant it, too. Fans who to the Lang Park Trust. I agree with you that that accept this offer will take up seats in both stands. would be a dreadful conflict of interests. Mr Budd: How many seats have you got Mr Littleproud: QRL? there? 8 September 1994 9486 Legislative Assembly

Mr VEIVERS: I have never been invited established, $200,000 had been spent on there; it does not worry me. developing Lang Park. In addition, a $60,000 If the Crusher fans and members fill all the grandstand capable of seating over 5 000 available grandstand space, there will be nothing people had been constructed. left for any other Rugby League fan come State The original trust comprised five of Origin time. When league fans line up for State trustees—one each nominated by the of Origin tickets as usual at 2 a.m., the first seats Government, the Brisbane City Council and the that will be available will probably be those in the Brisbane Rugby Football League, and two outer area. This amounts to blatant nominated by the Queensland Rugby Football discrimination. League. It is interesting to note that when Lang Mr FitzGerald: How would the people of Park was being established it was considered Inala get on with that? that, because the people in the area were league football enthusiasts, very few believed they were Mr VEIVERS: I would not like to comment disadvantaged by it. In fact, it was said that most on that. They have probably got an inside run. of them were quite happy that they had such a The State of Origin series is controlled by major sporting venue so close. As we are all the QRL, not the Crushers, and that is how it has aware, Lang Park suffered a setback when the been since the inception of State of Origin. It is a Broncos moved to the ANZ Stadium a couple of series for all Queenslanders. Some members on years ago. However, that situation should be the other side have to agree that we cannot allow rectified when the South Queensland Crushers the Crushers to use State of Origin tickets as an become a major tenant next year. incentive to become Crushers members. If they As has been indicated, one of the reasons end with 20 000 Crusher members, there will be this Bill has been introduced is to change the 20 000 seats gone from a State of Origin match. composition and structure of the Lang Park The Minister will tell us how many seats Lang Trust. Whereas the existing Lang Park Trust Act, Park, even now that it has been redeveloped, will which is being repealed, provides that the trust hold. The Government will have a massive will consist of six trustees, this Bill provides that headache on its hands if it allows that to there will be a board of trustees of the trust continue. consisting of four trustees. While the existing Act I can understand that it is in the best provides that four of the trustees shall interests of the Lang Park Trust, the Crushers respectively be (a) a representative of the and the QRL to sell as many season tickets as Brisbane City Council nominated by the council; possible, but they have been lumbered with a (b) a representative of the Queensland Rugby massive debt, and it cannot go around doing the Football League Limited nominated by the things it is doing. No such deal was done for the league; (c) a representative of the Queensland Broncos—I will say again—despite the claims Rugby Football League Limited, Brisbane made by the Minister in response to a question Division, nominated by the Brisbane division; that I asked on this issue. and (d) a person nominated by the Minister who The Opposition is opposed to this in his opinion represents the users of the playing legislation. It is nothing more than a public facilities administered by the trust, this Bill merely relations exercise which will no doubt lead to a specifies that the trustees will be appointed by bucketing of the outgoing board and its the Governor in Council, as is the case at chairman, as the Government attempts to pass present. It is intended that this will avoid any the buck for its own financial and political suggestion of a conflict of interest in respect of irresponsibility. trust members. Mr FitzGerald: It is a dump pass, isn't it? Lang Park—or Suncorp Stadium, as it is now called—has recently undergone a significant Mr VEIVERS: No, it is not a dump pass. A redevelopment, which has substantially dunk or a dump relates to basketball. They call it a enhanced its position as a venue of national and suicide pass. The Minister cannot allow it to go international standard. Earlier this year, I had the on in the way that it is. I will leave it to the Minister, pleasure of inspecting the facility just before the but we oppose the Bill in its form. State of Origin with a member of the existing Mr VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (7.50 p.m.): The trust. I also attended the State of Origin and was land on which Lang Park is situated, which I able to experience those facilities at first-hand. I understand was a former rubbish dump, was set must say that they are a vast improvement and a aside as a public park in 1914. In 1960, following credit to those who designed and built them, over four years of negotiation, the Queensland particularly in such a restricted period. Rugby Football League leased the area from the Accordingly, the Bill provides that the trust will Brisbane City Council for a period of 21 years. By maintain Lang Park as one of Brisbane's major 1962, when the Lang Park Trust was first sporting venues at a standard comparable to Legislative Assembly 9487 8 September 1994 similar facilities in other cities around Australia. Lang Park has been a major sports venue The aim is to ensure that Lang Park remains for a considerable period. It is a convenient suitable for the conduct of interstate and location and is a valuable sporting asset. The international sporting events and that facilities recent redevelopment of Lang Park has are provided that will attract public attendances to significantly enhanced its position as a sporting such events. venue. As the Minister indicated when he The management of Lang Park by the trust introduced the Bill, times have changed, and will be required to be consistent with sound therefore the management of Lang Park had to commercial principles so as to meet debt change also. The new trustees, whoever they repayments and return a profit each year. The Bill may be, will have the responsibility of ensuring spells out that, as manager of Lang Park, the the successful future of this great sporting trust must implement policies which give due venue. Although their job will not be an easy regard to the needs of tenants and which one, I am sure that it will be very fulfilling. On that mutually benefit both the tenants of the trust and note, I acknowledge the work done by the improve the various sports that will be played at present trustees and wish the new trustees Lang Park. every success. As I have indicated, there will be a board of Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) four trustees of the trust which will decide the (7.57 p.m.): When presenting the Lang Park objectives, strategies and policies that are to be Trust Bill last week, the Minister for Tourism, followed by the trust to ensure that the trust Sport and Racing sought to portray it as carries out its functions in a way that is proper, enhancing accountability, removing conflicts of effective and efficient. Trustees will be interest and ending sectional interests on the appointed by the Governor in Council for a term trust. It concerns me that the Minister actually not exceeding three years and will hold office maintained a straight face when he described the according to conditions laid down by the Bill in that fashion. In the Rugby League Governor in Council. One of the trustees will be community and among those more directly nominated as chairperson of the board by the associated with Lang Park, the Minister's claims Minister. The Bill spells out the circumstances were treated with complete derision. I give the under which the Governor in Council may Minister credit for one thing: at least he is terminate the appointment of a trustee, but also consistent—but consistently bad—in the way he provides that the appointment of all or any addresses the structure and management of trustees may be terminated at any time for any or boards and authorities under his control. no reason. The current Act provides that the The new Lang Park Trust will be appointed Governor in Council may, for any cause which entirely at the whim of the Minister. Neither the appears to him to be sufficient, remove any Brisbane City Council nor the Queensland trustees from office. Rugby League will be represented on the trust, In compliance with the provisions of the anti- as they have been since the trust was discrimination legislation, there is no provision in established almost 40 years ago. The the Bill preventing a person being appointed as a qualifications for appointment will be the same as trustee or continuing as a trustee because of they are for just about every other trust or board age. Trustees will in future be required to administered by this Minister. The appointees will disclose any financial interest, direct or indirect, either be Labor Party friends of the Minister, or in any matter being or about to be considered by his drinking mates or their associates. The the board, and the procedures to be followed in Minister should not come in here and pretend such circumstances are set out in the Bill. In that this is all about accountability and integrity future, a departmental officer nominated by the because, quite frankly, I do not know anyone Minister may attend board meetings, and the who takes that claim seriously. board is required to give such officer prescribed The Minister said that the Queensland notice of each meeting. However, while the Rugby League cannot be represented on the officer may take part in meetings, he or she trust because of sectional interests and conflict cannot participate in a decision of the board. of interest as the QRL will be the major tenant of Whereas there is a provision in the current Lang Park. Only in the last couple of weeks, the Act which allows the trust to mortgage or lease or Minister appointed a new greyhound control agree to lease the lands vested in the trust and board. One of the new appointees is the there is provision in the Bill allowing the trust to chairman of the Albion Park Greyhound deal in property, the Bill restricts the trust's Club—the club which has the most dealings with powers to sell any trust land without first the board. Was that appointment not a possible obtaining approval from the Governor in Council. conflict of interest? 8 September 1994 9488 Legislative Assembly

I can cite an even more glaring example. would have been well served with one member When the Minister changed the Eagle Farm from the QRL provided the trust was not Racecourse Trustees Act, he said it was to end a dominated by QRL representatives. I understand conflict of interest between the Queensland Turf that Mr Ken Arthurson, the el supremo of Rugby Club and the trust, yet one of his new League in New South Wales, is a member of the appointees to the trust was a member of the Sydney Cricket Ground Trust, which controls the committee of the QTC, Dr John Power, who is a football stadium where the NSW Rugby League respected citizen and who I am pleased to add is the major tenant. I am sure that had there been subsequently resigned within days of his a conflict of interest there, the NSW Labor appointment. It was not a matter of ending a Opposition would have been complaining— conflict of interest at all; it was simply a matter of though, it would have found it hard to do seeing the Minister wanting to get rid of Sir Edward that it was the Wran Labor Government which Williams and Mr Peter Gallagher and replace them appointed Mr Arthurson to the trust. with trustees who would do the Minister's I think we would all have been much happier bidding. if the Minister had come in here and said There is another reason why the Lang Park something like, "I cannot get on with the trust, Trust Act is being changed. The outgoing Act and the city council in particular, so I want a new provides for a representative on the trust Act which gives me the freedom to choose nominated by the Brisbane City Council. That trustees who will get on with me and the provision has been repealed, and I would be Government." Everyone with any connection prepared to wager any amount that there will be with Rugby League knows that those are the no-one from the Brisbane City Council on the circumstances and the facts, so why try to hide trust when it is reformed. them behind phoney talk about accountability Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): and removing conflicts of interest? Order! Members on both sides of the House will The people I feel sorry for in all of this are the come to order. The member for Indooroopilly has outgoing chairman and deputy chairman of the the floor. Lang Park Trust, Bruce Hatcher and Kevin Mr BEANLAND: Thank you, Mr Deputy Driscoll, who have done a good job in very Speaker. difficult circumstances, and are being effectively dumped for their efforts—although Mr Hatcher Even this week, we found the Minister was smart enough to get in first and resign. I engaged in yet another brawl with the Lord understand from the most reliable sources that Mayor, Councillor Soorley, over the poker both men gave hundreds of hours of their time, machine fund, this time at QE II. The brawls free of charge, during the development of the continue, and I am sure we will see a lot more of new grandstand at Lang Park and that they had them. to put up with the constant interference of the The reason given for the repeal of that Minister in the process. When the trust got itself provision is that the council now operates a publicly into trouble recently over long-term competing stadium, ANZ Stadium, the seating privileges, the Minister, instead of sorting headquarters of the Brisbane Broncos. Again, it the matter out calmly and reasonably, launched is as much a matter of the Minister getting square yet again into a bitter public attack on the trust. with his old enemy, Councillor Soorley, as it is Is it any wonder that Mr Hatcher, who is one of putting an end to conflict of interest highly regarded in business and professional cases. The reason for the removal of the circles, and who has worked very hard during the Queensland Rugby League representative has six years he has chaired the trust, has resigned? not been adequately explained. The Minister The whole business could have been handled says it is because the QRL will become the major much better, especially if the Government wants tenant of Lang Park next year, yet the QRL, or community-minded citizens to serve in an one of its affiliates, has been a major tenant of honorary capacity on various boards and trusts. Lang Park since the ground was developed in But, once again, that did not happen, and I the late 1950s. Indeed, for a time in the 1980s, suspect the Minister for Sport is not the least bit the late Ron McAuliffe was Chairman of the Lang concerned by developments. He will now get a Park Trust while he was also Chairman of the trust comprising mates and political supporters, Queensland Rugby League. I cannot recall the and the credibility of the trust will be the real current Government, when in Opposition, loser. objecting to that dual appointment. In his interview with the Sunday Mail last The simple fact is that the Minister wants to Sunday, Mr Hatcher thanked the Premier for his appoint who he wants as trustees, not who the support, but did not mention the Minister. It was user-organisations, or local government hardly an accidental omission or oversight. The recommend. I would have thought that the trust Legislative Assembly 9489 8 September 1994

Lang Park Trust has gone the way of just about departmental officer to attend a board meeting every other body administered by the Minister for and participate in debate but not to be able to Tourism, Sport and Racing—infighting, vote. No doubt he would be putting the bitterness, division and resignations. Minister's views. The Minister either wants this I do not agree with the way the outgoing person on the board or he does not—or is it trust handled matters with the Broncos when the simply that he does not trust those who he is Broncos were the main tenants, and I put my appointing, or he wants to keep an eye on his concerns on the public record on more than one mates behind their back while telling them what occasion about that. However, I do believe that to do? This must be the ultimate insult to all Brisbane can support two major stadiums, and concerned—except the Minister. I think it the entry of the South Queensland Crushers highlights what this legislation is all about. next year is keenly awaited by those of us who Therefore, I think the Minister will appreciate that regard Lang Park as something special and the it is little wonder that the Opposition is opposing real home of Rugby League in Queensland. It is this legislation. a pity that the trust which controls Lang Park is In the context of Lang Park, I want to say once again surrounded by controversy, and the something about the administration of Rugby Minister has to take much of the blame for that. League in Australia today. Earlier this year, I The fact is that the new grandstand, magnificent commented on the proposed changes to the though it is, cost some $40m— more than players' salary cap—changes which so double the original estimate. It is going to impose conveniently would have seriously a massive burden on the new trust and probably disadvantaged the non-Sydney clubs: the hold up for years the further planned Broncos and the Canberra Raiders. development of Lang Park to make it into a world- Mr Budd interjected. class stadium. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Given these massive problems, I would have member for Redlands will come to order. thought it would have been far more sensible to keep some stability in the trust and to certainly Mr BEANLAND: Under the threat of court keep the Queensland Rugby League directly action by the players who were going to have involved in the trust's overall operations. It is their basic rights further restricted— probably in nonsense to suggest that the QRL cannot play a breach of the Trade Practices Act—the New role because of its interest as a tenant. If that rule South Wales Rugby League was forced to back applies, then no race club official should be on down. What this example shows is the bias of the the Queensland Principal Club, and no tourism game's administrators against successful clubs operator should be on the Queensland Tourism which are outside the Sydney clique—notably and Travel Corporation. But no, balance is not the Brisbane Broncos. That bias has also provided for because this Minister wants a trust showed up in the hearings before the judiciary of that will do his bidding, as he has done with just the NSW Rugby League. Tonight, Steve about every other board for which he is Renouf, who is generally regarded as one of the responsible. Lang Park is too important a best players in the game today, will appear sporting venue for its management to be before the judiciary after a complaint from the handled so irresponsibly. Manly club. The Minister has been most unconvincing in In today's media, the chief executive of the justifying these changes and less than frank Broncos, John Ribot, is quoted as saying that he about the real issues behind them. It is my fear has been told by reliable Sydney sources that that the administration of Lang Park will go the Steve Renouf will be found guilty and get a four- same way as the QTTC, the QPC, the week suspension, thereby taking him out of the Greyhound Racing Control Board and so on, with remaining premiership games. Time will tell the boards being virtual stooges of the Minister, whether Mr Ribot's tip-off is accurate, but the not custodians of the facilities and services they mere fact that he has been told this information are charged with administering. On that basis, puts a real cloud over the way the Rugby League this Bill is a step backwards, not the enlightened judiciary operates. step forward the Minister claims it to be. Earlier this year, the Broncos played Wigan If we look at the Lang Park Trust Bill which is for the World Cup championship. A Brisbane before the House, we see a section allowing for a player, Alan Cann, was reported to the departmental officer to attend board meetings. international judiciary for an incident in the game. That person could best be described as the Government members interjected. Clayton's member of the board—or perhaps Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The better still as the Minister's spy. How outrageous and what hypocrisy it is to allow for a 8 September 1994 9490 Legislative Assembly

Chair is in control of the proceedings in this Lang Park Trust to complete the new grandstand House, and I would remind all members to in record time, and at least at double, if not three respect that. times, the original estimated cost. Rugby League Mr BEANLAND: Thank you, Mr Deputy today is a multimillion-dollar business, and the Speaker. Earlier this year, the Broncos played top players are professional men whose income Wigan for the World Cup championship. A is solely derived from the game and associated Brisbane player, Mr Alan Cann, was reported to activities. It must therefore be run on the most the international judiciary for an incident in the professional lines with absolute integrity. game. He was subsequently cleared— about the In fact, the Broncos were put on notice by only time the judiciary has gone the Broncos the New South Wales Rugby League that Mr way. About a week later, the General Manager of Renouf might be charged even before the Manly the NSW Rugby League, Mr John Quayle, club decided to lay a charge; so that integrity confirmed that the judiciary had been shown a must be in real doubt. This is a most disturbing video of a different tackle and not the one for issue. I hope that this Government and other which the player was reported. States will bring in a law that requires every quasi- I am most reliably informed that Mr Quayle judicial body with the capacity to impose knew that he and his staff had made an error in penalties affecting a person's income or career to the incident shown to the judiciary within 24 have a place to which that person can go for a fair hours of the judiciary hearing. He sought to appeal. We need a fair appeals system. cover up the error, not to help the Broncos, but The Minister tells us about the wonderful to protect himself, and he only finally owned up things he is doing for Rugby League in assisting to the incident when media pressure forced him the home of Rugby League. This is a very to do so. By covering it up for about a week, he important issue that the Minister ought to be allowed the media to attack the integrity and taking up. It is quite obvious what is happening to credibility of the judiciary, which included the the Broncos. It could easily happen when Chairman of the Queensland Rugby League, Mr Queensland gets a second team into the New John McDonald, who is highly respected in the South Wales Rugby League competition. community. Therefore, it is very important. I know the Minister Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): for Sport gets on well with the administrators of Order! The Chair has been tolerant with the the New South Wales Rugby League. I hope he honourable member for Indooroopilly. The will take this matter up with them, so that the honourable member will return to the contents of judiciary process—the laughing-stock of the the Bill before the House. game—gets back some integrity, and that the players who depend on the game for their Mr BEANLAND: I will do so. I am referring income and future get the basic rights to which to this matter because I want to highlight the they are entitled—the right of appeal against a significance and the effect that the New South judicial decision or penalty. Wales Rugby League is having on the competition. We have to ensure that the future Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) players at Lang Park—the Queensland (8.15 p.m.): If I had known I was following that Crushers—are not affected in the very same way speech I, too, would have brought in the back by the Sydney clique. It is important to highlight page of the Courier-Mail to read. The Opposition this, because members are talking about the spokesman is apparently still smarting over Lang Park Trust. The Queensland Crushers will missing out on his usual tickets in the trust box be playing at Lang Park, and it important that this on State of Origin night. That is obvious. does not occur in the future and that Mr VEIVERS: I rise to a point of order. Queensland is given a fair go. All we ask for is a Mrs EDMOND: I withdraw the tickets. fair go in common with all other Australians. Mr VEIVERS: The honourable member It is important that New South Wales Rugby did not have to withdraw the tickets, but I ask her League admits its error—because people such to withdraw the remark, because I paid for my as Mr Quayle have allowed the judiciary to be own tickets and gave them away. treated as a laughing-stock—so that this does not occur in the future and that members are not Mrs EDMOND: I withdraw. I join this allowed to be called "Three Blind Mice". That is debate today because, as some members may exactly what happened. There are very be aware, Lang Park is a major sporting focus in respected people on that judiciary, such as Mr my electorate, and I have a keen interest in the McDonald. happenings there. Over the last eight months or so, I have become much more closely That one incident reveals an alarming lack of acquainted with the current trust, Lang Park and integrity on the part of the game's top the Suncorp Stadium, in particular, through the administrator, the man who also pushed the Legislative Assembly 9491 8 September 1994 redevelopment phase. I acknowledge the Mr Ardill: They're all gentlemen. support for this redevelopment from the Mrs EDMOND: One would have hoped Clayton's member for Indooroopilly and the so, but not all of them were gentlemen. O f member for Southport. course, the Brisbane City Council now has the It has indeed been an interesting and authority to take full control of the traffic challenging experience, bringing together two management, and I hope that it will introduce a different groups of people with widely disparate residential parking scheme for the surrounding views—the trust and the local residents. On one area, as local residents are currently suffering hand, we had the trust, which could not believe from the growth of commerce in the Milton, that there existed anywhere a group of people Paddington and Petrie Terrace areas. I have who had no interest whatsoever in Rugby certainly been urging such a scheme with the League or State of Origin matches. Some council. I mention these matters as an example of community members, on the other hand, found it my ongoing and keen interest in the Lang Park hard to believe that grown men, such as the Trust, and I will certainly be pursuing the interests member for Southport, would move heaven and of my constituents with the new trust once its earth and work all hours to build what they members are appointed. I thank the existing trust believed was the best stadium in Australia in time for its assistance over the past year. for a footy match! It certainly tested all my This Bill brings the Lang Park Trust into line mediation skills to keep these two groups talking with the accountability of the 1990s, when trust to each other—even though sometimes it was at members—like all of us here tonight—will have to a distance—and moving forward. acknowledge possible conflicts of interest and Some political activists around the place disclose to the board the nature of that interest were shouting doom, gloom, traffic chaos, as soon as it is apparent. This is a welcome move disaster, etc., and I am pleased that they were and no less than the public has cause to expect disappointed. I heard that one was absolutely in officials appointed by this Government. It inconsolable on State of Origin match night does, however, mean that some of the current because the traffic was busy but well ordered, appointments to the trust would no longer be the crowd behaviour and dispersal was—and I appropriate. For instance, it is obvious that it quote from our resident's reference group— would be totally inappropriate to appoint a local "better than ever before". How devastatingly Brisbane City councillor as a member when the disappointing that was for some people with their council currently is the owner and operator of the own agendas and no real concern for the local major competitor to Lang Park and Suncorp residents! It is not surprising that some of those Stadium. It would be very difficult for such a people did not bother attending the post-match trustee to truly have the commercial and sporting meetings; they were so disappointed that they interests of Lang Park as its prime concern, as is could not report that it was all a disaster. required by the legislation. I do not stand here to say that there was no This Bill, while reducing the number of trust inconvenience to those people living close to a members, also widens the scope of possible major sporting venue; I am saying that the police, nominees for the trust by removing the limiting the Transport Department, the Brisbane City proscriptions formerly imposed on the make-up Council transport officers, the trust and the of the trust. I welcome these changes to the patrons all worked together to minimise the composition of the trust and the increased negative impacts on the local community. I accountability that comes with them, and I look welcomed the increased presence of police forward to establishing a good working during and after the match, who walked with the relationship with the new members of the trust. crowd, chatting to them and cooling any rising One point that I would encourage the Minister to tempers and disappointment with a calm word consider is the nomination of a trust member and a friendly chat. from the nearby community as a way of ensuring There are other issues that need to be local knowledge and input into the trust addressed in the future, such as the noise and management and decision making. I believe this congestion caused by limousines and their would be in keeping with modern practice and drivers. Another issue—the direction of some of would give a positive message to the local the floodlights—has already, I believe, been community. fixed. I place on record here today that, whoever is An honourable member interjected. appointed to the trust, I will be monitoring their activities and any impact on that local community. Mrs EDMOND: Some of the limousine I will certainly be continuing to consult with the drivers sat outside residences with their radios residents and the trust on traffic and crowd blaring loudly, shouting and all the rest of it. management at major events at Lang Park, and I 8 September 1994 9492 Legislative Assembly know that I do that with the wholehearted trust was chaired by the late Ron McAuliffe. At support of the Minister. I commend the Minister that time there was a conflict of interest, because for introducing the Bill to the House. as my colleague from Southport said, Ron was Mr LITTLEPROUD (Western Downs) the chairman of the trust and chairman of the (8.22 p.m.): I have listened to the contributions in QRL. There was an obvious conflict in relation to this debate with interest. First of all, I note that advertising rights, the provision of catering the Bill before us perpetuates the name Lang rights, and liquor sales. It was not easy being the Park. I think that sportsmen around the world Minister at that time. There was a blow up that always love the tradition of the various sports and had to be sorted out. My method was to show the various sporting venues. We talk about them a bit of sense and let them talk it through Wembley, the Sydney Cricket Ground, lately, the themselves. Sydney Football Stadium, and Carlaw Park in After the death of Ron McAuliffe, Bruce Auckland. Lang Park has always had the Hatcher became chairman. That heralded a reputation as the cauldron. change in Rugby league in Queensland, Mr Beattie: Melbourne Cricket Ground. because, all of a sudden, a private identity owned a team. Prior to that a federation of clubs Mr LITTLEPROUD: I am talking about formed the QRL. Suddenly it was a whole new football at the moment. The reputation of Lang ball game. That put pressure on major sponsors Park was enhanced because of the atmosphere such as Fourex's Frank Burnett. of the stadium when games were played there. I think I would be speaking on behalf of many Mr Beattie: Frank was a decent bloke. people throughout Queensland when I say that it Mr LITTLEPROUD: He was looking after will always remain "Lang Park". his interests, and I do not blame him for that. I pay tribute to the great Queensland Fourex were great supporters of Rugby League institution, Suncorp, which came to the rescue and other sports around Queensland. Frank and contributed sponsorship money. They Burnett had to protect his firm's position. The wanted a quid pro quo. A deal has been made private team, the Broncos, were pushing to and we have now have the new name "Suncorp maximise the exposure of their sponsor Powers Stadium". I do not want to denigrate the Brewing. For a while we saw one fiasco after contribution of Suncorp. However, I find it most another. disappointing that one of the great names of It must be acknowledged that there has Rugby League internationally, Lang Park, is been a great change in sport within Australia, being submerged by the commercial interests of which in some ways is lamentable. I believe that the game. That is most unfortunate. My sport has changed for the worse. For example, colleague the member for Southport, Mick State of Origin Rugby League, international Veivers, spoke at length about the details that Rugby League and international test cricket are led up to that commercialisation. I wanted to put part and parcel of the psyche of Australia. on record that many people internationally and Mr Beattie: Culture. many people in Queensland are most upset that the name "Lang Park" is being submerged. Mr LITTLEPROUD: Yes. We spend However, it is being preserved within this enormous amounts of money making it possible legislation. for telecommunications to take radio messages and television pictures across the nation I listened to the member for Nudgee describing all those events that everybody wants speaking about the history of the site. to be part of. Yet the people who run the sport Mr Beattie: A very good speech. end up owning the television rights and they sell Mr LITTLEPROUD: It was very good. He those rights off to one or two stations. I think we discussed the way it was developed from a have done ourselves a disservice in that regard. I rubbish dump. In 1962 the Lang Park Trust Act know that many people in western Queensland was enacted. That is the Act that is being lament the fact that they cannot watch the test repealed tonight. The member for Nudgee cricket on the ABC and cannot see some of the referred to the way the trust was set up and its international and interstate Rugby League membership. I am not quite old enough to matches because the television rights have remember back that far with that sort of clarity. I been sold off by the sporting bodies to television do remember that when I was a young fellow stations that are not interested in transmitting to going to teachers college in Brisbane in 1959, western Queensland. I am not without sympathy we used to go to Lang Park to watch the football. for the sporting bodies, because it is enormously That was before the trust was set up. expensive to maintain a team and everything that goes with it. A balance has to be maintained. My first experience with Lang Park when I was wearing the Minister's shoes was when the Legislative Assembly 9493 8 September 1994

I have some understanding of the sorts of the points. I take up a point made by the member problems that the trust has been facing. I notice for Southport and also by the member for that in his second-reading speech the Minister Indooroopilly in regard to the Minister's referred to a conflict of interest. I think the conflict representative attending meetings of the board. of interest should be avoided because it is The Bill stipulates that the Minister's important that the major users be represented on representative has to be given five days' notice the trust. It was mentioned by the member for and can attend and participate, but not vote. Nudgee that after the first board of trustees was Honourable members can work out that the appointed, certain major users has a right to worst-case scenario would be that the Minister's nominate the board members. That right has representative could go along and say, for been lost to the users. It will now all rest with the argument's sake, "Unless you fellows do this, the Governor in Council or the Minister. It is then up leverage from the Minister will be such and to the Minister's good sense and his such." That is not a healthy situation when a understanding of sport to make sure that the board sits down for discussions. The board major users are represented. That can done. If should deliberate and make its decisions free of someone from the QRL is appointed to the any coercion from the Minister's representative. board, although they are in the minority they are Then that decision can be discussed with the also good citizens of Queensland and should Minister or with representatives of his fully appreciate their responsibilities as board department. At the moment the Minister can members. I think that they can overcome the have somebody there who can make conflict of interest problem by declaring it and contributions, but cannot vote. That person will absenting themselves when discussions are still be there in a powerful role representing the taking place. Minister. The Minister should reconsider that. I One aspect that will always bother the board have a lot of faith in the people representing the is the stipulation that Lang Park must be a viable major users who are appointed to act on boards, and it would be a better structure if they reported commercial venture. A venue such as Lang Park to the Minister after they made their decision represent an enormous investment in capital, rather than his having someone there coercing therefore it must be used rather often. The fact or influencing their decisions. that ANZ Stadium has also come onto the scene is dividing the commercial dollars that are I hope that the Lang Park Trust continues to available. At one stage it was thought that the prosper, that the great game of Rugby League major Rugby Union matches would be shifted to prospers, that even the Crushers, who will make Lang Park to make more efficient use of its Lang Park their home ground, prosper, and that facilities. the QRL, its major user, is able to make successful use of the ground. I acknowledge the Mr Beattie: That's a good idea. work done by Bruce Hatcher and his board and, Mr LITTLEPROUD: Well, I think that before them, Ron McAuliffe and his board of Ballymore is in the same league as Lang Park—it trustees. However, I have some doubts about is an internationally known venue. The facilities the way that the Minister has structured this trust. have been upgraded. I am sure that the Rugby Hon. R. J. GIBBS (Bundamba— Minister Union has always wanted to retain the mood that for Tourism, Sport and Racing) (8.31 p.m.), in is Ballymore. It is different from Lang Park. They reply: I thank all honourable members for their are two venues with two different moods. The contributions tonight. I took great note, of Rugby Union has a right to preserve that. I do not course, of the points made this evening by the think that that thought is going to become a Opposition spokesman, the honourable member reality. The commercial viability will depend very for Southport. On Father's Day, my daughter much on the Crushers becoming a major force in gave me a copy of the new book Facer, which the Winfield competition and drawing big traces the historical significance of Lang Park in enough crowds to make it possible for the board Brisbane. It is worthwhile reading, because it to operate as a commercial venture. traces the outstanding and marvellous careers of On occasions the round ball game— many of our great Rugby League heroes who soccer—has been played at Lang Park. They played for Queensland and Australia. were some international games. As yet we do not In that book, I came across a section which seem to have had enough international games or shows one of the great players that Queensland drawn big enough crowds to really help. No has produced, former Australian Rugby League matter who is on the board, it is going to be a half-back Barry Muir, in full flight, being pursued challenge to really make it a commercial venture. by none other than the now member for I do not want to waste too much time, Southport, who was attempting to catch him. Of because other speakers have covered most of course, he was not in the hunt. On reading further, I learned that the game became 8 September 1994 9494 Legislative Assembly somewhat heated. Muir, who was known for his Some weeks after the commencement of the cockiness and aggression on the field, actually work at the site, I was advised that that price had challenged the honourable member for risen, as I recall, to about $18m. At that stage I Southport to throw a blow at him, which the had some alarm about it. I asked my departmental member duly did. Unfortunately, he knocked out people to intervene, have a close look at it and Muir's teeth, one of which happened to be solid come back to me with a report. I was then advised gold. Muir made much play about that. The that the project had gone up to $22m. Of course, referee called the game to a halt and all the it went a bit further than that. players began searching on the ground for the gold tooth. One would not want to believe it, but As a result of my concerns, on 19 April this history shows that the person who in fact found year, I made a request to the Department of the gold tooth was none other than the member Administrative Services to intervene in the for Southport. project on behalf of my department. The Department of Administrative Services went in I was disappointed that although all players there immediately with the express purpose of were acknowledged for their outstanding abilities assisting the Lang Park Trust to manage the as footballers, all the book had to say about the redevelopment of the Frank Burke Stand and to poor old member for Southport was that many ensure that it was completed by 20 June people were dubious about the fact that the 1994—at that stage, costs were reported as member had found the tooth, but they were being $29.2m compared with an initial budget, as even more surprised that he returned it because I have said, of some $15m—and to ensure that he was known for his frugality. So I can the existing quality levels of the project would be understand the honourable member's maintained during the construction stage. concerns—and I take them as being genuine concerns—about the cost of Lang Park, which I All that occurred and the project was will address shortly. completed on time. It will cost in the vicinity of I wish to refer very briefly to an article that $28m—$27.9m—and I am happy to say that appeared in last weekend's papers about which Lang Park has been finished to a high standard. I some comment was made tonight. I think it is also have received advice from the Administrative worthwhile making reference to the report, which Services Department that, in its opinion, the was attached to the Auditor-General's report. project represents value for money. That is the The statement is signed, "Yours faithfully, Lang reality. Park Trust, B. M. Hatcher, Chairman." Mr Hatcher Mr FitzGerald: From $15m to $28m—it does state in the Lang Park Trust report on page looks like you've lost. 2— Mr GIBBS: No, I think that the member is "The Lang Park Trust expresses its missing an important point, and that is that, apart thanks to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and from some cost overruns, the reality is that for a Racing for his assistance in ensuring the cost of $15m, quite frankly, we would have success of the project and to the Premier, received a third-rate redevelopment of Lang Mr Goss, and his Government for their Park. I listened with some interest to what the support of Rugby League, sport and other member for Western Downs had to say. The recreational pursuits." realities are that we have to be competitive. The That statement seems to contradict a member alluded to the fact that, in these days of comment, which was attributed to unnamed satellite communications and pay television, sources, in the media on the weekend. sport is gaining a high profile worldwide. The simple reality is that, in this commercial age and in I make the point tonight that the reality is that this age of coverage of sport, we have to have the Act, which we are overhauling tonight, simply professional people appointed to boards to did not allow, whether it was the previous engage in business negotiations. Government or this Government, virtually any control over what took place at Lang Park or over It has always been my contention, and one the trust in any shape or form. It is fair to say that about which I will not change my mind, that this city is big enough not only to sustain two Rugby in relation to the trust's activities and, indeed, League teams in the Australian Rugby League right up until a certain stage in the competition but also to sustain the North redevelopment project at Lang Park, according Queensland Cowboys, who enter the to the spirit of the legislation, I basically kept out competition next year. Because of the number of of the affairs of the Lang Park Trust. At one stage people from Victoria and New South Wales who this year, I became concerned about the project, are moving into the south-east corner of and my department had some concerns. Initially, Queensland, the simple reality was that we either the price which we were quoted was $15m. bulldozed Lang Park and constructed a super Legislative Assembly 9495 8 September 1994 stadium, which was going to cost this be a conflict of interest. Indeed, there was a Government in the vicinity of $100m, or we conflict of interest. opted for an alternative, which I believe was the How could we possibly have the major preferable alternative, to redevelop what, tenant of Suncorp Stadium, which was Lang indeed, has become one of the great theatres of Park, sitting on the trust, knowing the full Rugby League in the world. financial affairs and dealings of the trust? That The honourable member mentioned the representative was able to attend a meeting of name change to Suncorp Stadium. Certainly, I the Queensland Rugby League, knowing the have quite an affectionate memory of Lang Park. trust's financial position. That tenant would have I played many games of football there myself. a strong negotiating position when trying to do a That name is of some significance to me. deal with the trust of which he or she was a However, it again comes down to commercial representative. Obviously, there was a diabolical reality. There was quite a deal of money involved conflict of interest in that regard. The same thing in terms of the renaming of the stadium, and applies to the representation on the trust from hence it is now Suncorp Stadium. I simply make the Brisbane City Council. the point that at the time the name of the QE II I will go back to a point that I made before. Stadium was changed to ANZ Stadium, none of This is a competitive day and age in sport and in those good royalists on the Opposition side of stadium dealings. The commercial reality is that the House stood up and said what a shocking the Brisbane City Council is the owner of the thing it was that we should be taking away the Boondall complex and the ANZ Stadium. Again, name, Queen Elizabeth II Stadium. it is a total conflict of interest to have a Mr Littleproud: That's a bit of a red representative of the Brisbane City Council herring. sitting on the Lang Park Trust. It is a State Mr GIBBS: The honourable member is the Government owned facility. We are doing one who drew the red herring. His argument competitive business with the council. I sincerely really does contradict itself. hope that that competition would be fair and friendly. It comes as no joy to me that this In relation to other comments made by the constant, immature sniping from some Auditor-General—I certainly take cognisance of representatives of the Brisbane City Council the Auditor-General's report. There are matters in continues to go on. there which are of concern to me, but I am satisfied that the trust will meet its financial I was interested to note that my colleague obligations. The trust is currently involved in the member for Mount Coot-tha alluded to the discussions in relation to the disposal of some point that on the night of the State of Origin assets that it has— namely, a building which is match, quite against all predictions, one currently leased by a private firm, and the land prominent person within the council—and I think which is directly behind Lang Park which this person had lit candles and prayed for a incorporates the current car parking area and an week—had predicted that there would be a huge indoor netball facility. They have considerable traffic snarl and that there would be diabolical potential value, and they will be sold as soon as organisational problems. This person, who had possible. built up a great expectation about this, was so absolutely shocked and hurt about the fact that In relation to the number of corporate boxes his predictions proved incorrect that he was not that are still not sold—a major marketing even available for a media comment the next day. campaign is about to be undertaken by the trust. Normally, he loves to see his profile out there. Come the start of next season, particularly with the excitement as we move towards the Sydney Another point was made, and I do not wish grand final and the conclusion of this season's to get into a brawl about it. A call was made, I think competition, and as we start to head into 1995, I only yesterday, on this Government to put believe that corporate sponsors will be money into a redevelopment of the QE II forthcoming and availing themselves of the very Stadium. We are about to host the biggest excellent facilities at Lang Park. sporting event in the world—bigger than the Olympic Games. That event begins in late Other comments have been made in September or early October. I am referring to the relation to the proposed structure of the new World Masters Games. Those games involve trust. I make the point tonight that, under the some 26 000 registered competitors, as former Government and prior to our coming to opposed to about 12 000 competitors, including office—and we maintained the ignorance of the officials, at an Olympic Games. I reiterate that this former Government about this—I am told by my is the biggest sporting event of its nature in the advisers that the involvement of the Queensland world. Rugby League on the trust was, in fact, illegal. It was against the trust Bill itself. There was seen to 8 September 1994 9496 Legislative Assembly

The games will be held at a stadium which success of the board of the Queensland Tourist has obviously suffered some damage over the and Travel Corporation. Its figures came out last past couple of years. I will simply rest my point by week. Queensland sprints away from them again. saying this: the Brisbane City Council, since it There was a record increase of 15 per cent in the has been running the QE II sports club and has number of international visitors to this State. had poker machines installed at that Domestic figures were up 14 per cent. establishment, has made a cool $6.1m in profit I make those points to drive it home for the from poker machine revenue. I will neither information of members in this Parliament—and, concede nor accept that it is the responsibility of of course, to the chagrin of the honourable this Government to have to put money into member for Indooroopilly, who just cannot back a upgrading the facilities at that stadium. winner. When he came into the House tonight I also gave an undertaking, when the point with his most amateurish attack on the Australian was made about the Queensland Rugby Rugby League, we all knew what he was about. League. Somebody also mentioned the In a clumsy and most unethical way, he was Crushers Rugby League Club. I take the same pitching in for his free Broncos tickets every view in relation to the Crushers as I do in relation weekend. He was probably making sure that he to the role of the Brisbane City Council—and gets an invite from them to the Sydney grand indeed the Queensland Rugby League—on the final. That was a pathetic effort on the member's trust at present. It would obviously be a dreadful part. conflict of interest for any representative of the I do not know where on earth the member Crushers to be appointed to the new Lang Park gets the figure of $40m as being the cost of the Trust. I give an undertaking to this House tonight redevelopment of Lang Park. That is a total that there will not be an appointment made on figment of his imagination. I have given the behalf of the Crushers to the board of the Lang member the real figure publicly time and time Park Trust. again. It is no coincidence that only one other I do not know why the member for gentleman who occasionally appears in the Indooroopilly, Mr Beanland, bothers coming into media seems to want to use that $40m figure. this Parliament at times. He should simply cut a I want to pay a compliment to the member for good 20-minute speech in a recording booth Mount Coot-tha, who spoke in this debate. She somewhere, send it in on a CD or tape and get has been a most diligent representative on somebody to play it for him. We have heard the behalf of her constituents. From day one, when same pathetic bleatings from him, for the past this redevelopment commenced, the member two years in particular. Tonight we are debating was tenacious in her attitude of constantly the Lang Park Trust Amendment Bill, and what making representations to me about the did we get? We got a rehash of my supposed disruption caused to her constituents by the personal dislike of Sir Edward Williams at the noise associated with the redevelopment. On Queensland Turf Club and some ongoing more than one occasion, the member was perceived problem that I do not have, but other singularly successful in ensuring that some of seem to have, with Mr Gallagher from the that late-night noise was calmed down. She was Queensland Turf Club. He spoke about my successful in her representations to me to appointments to boards. ensure that traffic control would be in place to I will tell honourable members something. protect her constituents. A great compliment The reality is this: under the boards that I have should be paid to members of the Queensland appointed since we have been in Government, it Police Service for the excellent role that they can be truly said that they are representative of played on the night of the State of Origin match every political viewpoint in this Parliament. On in ensuring that traffic problems were controlled those boards there would be people whom I in a professional and smooth manner. have appointed. They would represent the views I return to a point that I made earlier. With the of the National Party, the Liberal Party and massive population increase occurring in the certainly, I suppose, the views of the Labor Party. south-east corner of this State, this city is big The one thing that they singularly together have achieved has been commercial success. In every enough to sustain two stadiums and two Rugby area in which those appointments have been League teams. If one divides the number of made, there has been commercial success to an people who live in Sydney by the number of outstanding degree. teams that compete there and makes a comparison with Brisbane, one discovers that we Honourable members should look at the have a quarter of a million more potential success of the TAB board, the Greyhound supporters available for both our teams. Given Racing Control Board and the Harness Racing the constantly increasing population in Board. They should look also at the outstanding Queensland, I am sure that that will be sustained. Legislative Assembly 9497 8 September 1994

The Opposition spokesman made a point of year, we will spend $36m on sport throughout asking what we have done for the North the State. Queensland Cowboys. I will tell the member what The reality is that, when we invest that we have done for that team. money in sport and in facilities such as the Mr Veivers: When did I ask that question? Suncorp Stadium and a number of other fine Mr GIBBS: During his speech tonight, the locations throughout Queensland that will be member said that we had done all this for the developed in the next couple of years, we are Crushers and asked what we had done for other not only making a commitment to and an teams. investment in sport, we are also making a commitment to the ongoing health of young Mr Veivers: No, I said, "Will you be doing people, elderly people and every person in our it?" society who wants to participate in the most Mr GIBBS: The member made a comment, positive activity possible, that is, active sport. and I intend to reply to it. He should just hold his Question—That the Bill be now read a tongue. second time—put; and the House divided— The reality is that we have made one of the AYES, 47—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Braddy, best stadiums in this State available for the North Bredhauer, Briskey, Budd, Burns, Campbell, Casey, Queensland Cowboys and contributed Clark, D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Fenlon, something like a half a million dollars to ensure Foley, Gibbs, Hamill, Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, that that stadium will not only be there for the use McGrady, Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Power, of that team but also that it will dovetail with what Purcell, Pyke, Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, will always be the specific requirements and the Spence, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, direction of this Government in terms of sport, Vaughan, Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: that is, to ensure that any of the stadiums that are Pitt, Livingstone constructed or developed in the future will be NOES, 25—Beanland, Connor, Davidson, Elliott, multipurpose. I reiterate that they will be FitzGerald, Gamin, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, multipurpose. The time has long gone when one Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, sport had exclusivity over a particular area. With Mitchell, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Slack, Stephan, Lang Park, we are currently trying to find a Veivers, Watson Tellers: Laming, Springborg summer tenant so that we have a revenue- producing source on a year-round basis. Resolved in the afffirmative. It does the member for Southport very little credit to come in here and ask why the Committee Government is not putting money into the Hon. R. J. Gibbs (Bundamba—Minister for Seagulls. I will tell the House what happened with Tourism, Sport and Racing) in charge of the Bill. the Seagulls. The Seagulls came to see me nine Clauses 1 to 8, as read, agreed to. months ago and said, "We want $8m from the Government to allow us to relocate from across Clause 9— the border to Carrara sports field." My simple Mr VEIVERS (9.05 p.m.): Clause 9 (1) reply to that was, "But hold on; you have had states— poker machines and access to the revenue from "The Trust must manage Lang Park in a those poker machines since the early fifties. way that— What have you done with it?" None of them (a) is consistent with sound commercial could answer me, and none of them wanted to principles and produces an annual talk about the cool million dollars that just cash surplus over operating costs and happened to disappear when they purchased committed debt repayment." the Greenmount resort some years ago. The member for Southport knows that that occurred. In addressing this clause, I refer the Minister to the comments of the Auditor-General who has No sporting organisation from across the already questioned the future liquidity of the border will walk into my office and get the jump Lang Park Trust. I point out that the total over clubs in Queensland whose administration, exposure was about $2.4m and now it is $27m. both men and women, have worked very hard Does the Minister share the concerns of the under trying circumstances for sport in this State Auditor-General that the trust could come in with for many years. I might add that those clubs were a profit when it has a massive debt like that to starved for funding by the previous Government. cover, bearing in mind that the Minister said that I never get sick of making that point around these sports clubs and other operations are Queensland, and the sports community never coming to Lang Park? gets sick of hearing it. When we came to office, the Sport budget for this State was $6.2m. This 8 September 1994 9498 Legislative Assembly

Mr GIBBS: In answering the honourable Minister. Over the past few months, I have been member's question, may I just point out once in contact with the Minister's office many times again how dreadfully wrong the member for requesting a copy of the draft Bill. Over and over Indooroopilly was and how he misled this House again, I have found that there have been delays earlier tonight. I am delighted to announce that of some sort or another. However, I have always the charge against Steve Renouf has been had a commitment from the Minister that the draft dismissed. So, again, the member for Bill would be made available. Next, I find that the Indooroopilly has been proven wrong. Bill has been presented to the House. As late as Mr VEIVERS: I rise to a point of order. Can the week before the Bill was presented to the he just answer my question, please? Can he House, I had been assured by the Minister that keep his personal vendetta to himself? I am the he would be making available to me the draft Bill. member for Southport. Now I find that the Bill—which is a very complex, involved Bill—is before the House. I have had Mr GIBBS: I believe I gave the member an only nine days within which to determine the answer in my summation to the best of my ability Opposition's position in relation to this most that whilst I always, of course, will have a concern important Bill and to prepare for the debate on it. at matters raised appropriately so by the In fact, in accordance with the rules of this place, I Auditor-General, I do believe as a result—— could have had as little as seven days within The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr which to do it. Briskey): Order! There is too much audible noise in the Chamber. If honourable members wish to I am most disappointed at the Minister's total have a conversation, they should leave the disregard for parliamentary courtesy in this Chamber. regard. I do comme nd the department—DBIRD—for the consultation that it Mr GIBBS: As a result of the diligence of undertook and the approach that it adopted my department and the cooperation and towards the formulation of this Bill. However, I assistance of the Lang Park Trust itself, I believe believe that the process could have been that the asset sales will take place. I am confident speeded up dramatically. It should not have that, with the marketing campaign, the remaining taken 18 months to go through this process. 10 corporate boxes—I think there are 10—will be Owing to the necessary lack of retrospectivity in sold prior to the commencement of next season. the legislation, the leases that were undertaken If those matters take place, I believe that the trust during that 18 months will not be privileged to will certainly be able to adhere to the the safeguards provided by this legislation. That requirements in clause 9 (1). is a tragedy, because many people who have Mr VEIVERS: I refer to the comments of signed leases in the last 18 months will go broke the Auditor-General regarding what we just as a result of the very common conditions of spoke about and the figures. I take them as read, many of the leases in use at present. It is tough and I know the Minister does, too. I ask: if the enough for small businesses in this very volatile future liquidity of the Lang Park Trust cannot be economy, but the fact that they have to deal with assured or does not come up to scratch, will the very unfair leases as well is truly a tragedy. Government step in and bail out the trust? The Opposition will be supporting the Clause 9, as read, agreed to. legislation which, as I see it, is a natural evolution Clauses 10 to 32 and Schedule, as read, towards a fairer situation. In 1984, when the agreed to. former National Party Government initiated the first Retail Shop Leases Act in Australia, it was Bill reported, without amendment. limited in its scope and, because of its ground- breaking nature, lessons had to be learned. It is Third Reading interesting that the New South Wales experiment with a code of practice failed, and it Bill, on motion of Mr Gibbs, by leave, read a was not until a few months ago that a Retail third time. Leases Act was introduced in that State. It is also interesting to note that the process of initiating RETAIL SHOP LEASES BILL the Retail Leases Act in New South Wales was much faster but, then again, in many respects, Second Reading the ground-breaking work had been done by Debate resumed from 30 August (see Governments in Queensland. It is a tragedy, p. 8975). however, that New South Wales had in fact Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (9.10 p.m.): In outlawed ratchet clauses before Queensland did rising to speak to the Retail Shop Leases Bill, I so. If it were not for the procrastination and the place on record my disappointment with the extended period to determine this process, Legislative Assembly 9499 8 September 1994 certain safeguards that were obviously required The free market, in most circumstances, could have been initiated well before now. delivers the most efficient products and services I just hope that the debate on this very to the community. But what is a free market? important piece of legislation—and it is only the Many of those involved in primary industries in Minister's second piece of legislation since he Australia cringe at the mention of a theoretical took over the portfolio—can be conducted level playing field. In economic terms, a free sensibly, rationally and without indulging in market includes perfect knowledge—which, of personal abuse. One thing I have found since course, is never the case. It is also based on an coming into this place is that one can always tell a equilibrium in bargaining positions. A fair market Minister who has not done his or her homework position cannot work where there is a monopoly by the level of personal abuse that that Minister either as a buyer or as a seller. On that basis, it is heaps on the Opposition. nearly impossible to argue for regulation in a free market situation. So before one can justify new I will be dealing with many of the clauses in regulation or extending regulation in an industry, detail, because there are certain aspects that do one has to at least show that a free market does need proper explanation. Had the Minister not exist. I believe that, over the last decade or extended to me and to other members of the so, both sides of the House have acknowledged Opposition the courtesy of providing us with a that a free market does not apply in the leasing of copy of the draft Bill, we would have been able to retail shops. get back to the Minister or his department with any relevant questions instead of wasting the The position paper dated August 1993 time of this Parliament. But that was not to be; so, issued by the Department of Business, Industry unfortunately, certain aspects of this Bill that and Regional Development quite clearly shows would not otherwise have to be explained in this this situation. I would like to put on the record a House will need to be explained. few points that were raised in the position paper and make a few comments on them. The position There are certain anomalies in the Bill that I paper has this to say this about the will also be highlighting—in fact, certain areas marketplace— where the Bill contradicts itself, and other areas where things could have been done more simply "Important characteristics of a or effectively and, of course, areas where the competitive market include freedom of Opposition feels that the Government has not entry, large numbers of buyers and sellers, gone far enough, or simply disagrees with the ready access to market information for all participants, price taking as opposed to Government's position. However, in the latter price making behaviour and a case, they are only minor matters; the Opposition agrees with by far the majority of the legislation corresponding absence of substantial and, on that basis, we will be supporting it. market power for individual players in the industry." Before dealing with the Bill in detail, I feel it is important to deal with the overall issues of I believe that the two most significant aspects of regulation and the marketplace. In almost all that quote are the reference to the many sellers circumstances, regulation costs the community. and the price taking behaviour. It costs the community in many ways: the actual Firstly, as to the many sellers—if we take development of the regulation, the shopping centres as the seller, there is certainly implementation both for the public sector and not an over-abundance of major shopping also for the private sector, and the administration centres in the State, and where there is a both through the department and the affected number of them, the availability of space at most businesses and also in the cost of adjudication times is very limited. Most shopping centres through tribunals and courts. require a set mix of shops and, further, they limit the entry of shops that do not fulfil that mix. Regulation can also cost the community from the point of view of being a restraint or an Secondly, as far as the price taking artificial restriction to trade, especially where it behaviour is concerned—one need only try to impacts directly on the actual marketplace. negotiate the rent in a major shopping centre to Regulation that initially looks logical, reasonable find that, in most cases, with the exception of a and only fair can often turn out to be a disaster for new shopping centre that is offering an initial an industry. And so it is that any responsible discount or rent-free period, by far the majority of Government must look long and hard before major shopping centres in Queensland are price bringing in new regulations or extending old makers; in other words, they dictate the price per legislation. Where possible, Governments square metre, and the potential tenant takes it or should be doing exactly the leaves it. This is especially the case in regard to opposite—reviewing regulations and removing lease renewals in that the retail tenant has them whenever they can. invested a great deal of money in fixtures, fittings 8 September 1994 9500 Legislative Assembly and goodwill, which is not transferred easily or, in shoulders of the tenant, with none on the some cases, is not able to be transferred at all to landlord. During this recession, the tenants were other premises. This has been the case in recent not even in a position to be able to walk away months; but, in fact, in the early part of the from their shops because, firstly, they could not nineties, we actually saw a number of major sublease their shops to anyone else at those shopping centres throughout Queensland with inflated rents and, secondly, even if they empty space. I believe that we need to ask why liquidated their company, invariably they would this was the case, because it was a unique have personal guarantees on the lease. As a situation. result of that, in many cases, people not only lost We all know that, with the inflation of the late their businesses but also their family home and eighties, the market rent increases that were almost all of their possessions. incurred by shopping centre tenants were I do not believe that anyone can argue for a extremely high in many cases. In the late free market situation when these are the realities. eighties, it was not unusual for tenants to be I regret that sufficient safeguards in relation to receiving market reviews of up to 100 per cent in ratchet clauses, outgoings, etc., were not in any one year, compounding by another 100 per place beforehand so that the pain of the cent the following year. This, of course, was recession was borne equally and fairly. Many unsustainable and, of course, we saw the small-business people will never recover from commercial property market collapse in the early this recession, and the fear and pessimism and nineties. However, because of the ratchet volatility of the economy now is as a direct result clauses in many retail shop leases around the of many of these unfair situations that arose in State, the existing rents of many tenants were the marketplace that existed. The situation with not able to be reduced, even though the market retail shop tenancies is but one of the had dropped dramatically. distortions—a major one—in the marketplace. We are now in a position to rectify at least some I highlighted this situation in 1990 in a of those imbalances. speech to the Parliament in which I related the case of a tenant who, as a result of these market Another problem that arises in this regard is reviews, was subjected to these dramatic that many of these tenants have been locked increases and was paying many times the original into these higher rents over the years as a result rent. When the market finally did fall, that tenant's of these lease arrangements. They have not lease had a clause which said, "To market or 10 been allowed to pay the higher rents but have per cent, whichever is greater." What that meant been allowed to continue to trade in their was that, as the market went up, the tenant's rent premises under all sorts of different schemes. went up; when the market fell, the tenant's rent These tenants were, and are, in no position to was left at the higher rate plus a further 10 per negotiate these special schemes and many of cent. What this also meant was that tenants who them are simply increasing their liability and will were stuck on these higher rents were not in a never be in a position to repay. I will give competitive position compared with new entrants honourable members an example—a tenant who in the marketplace. For instance, if, as in that has a ratchet clause had his rent increased to example, as a result of the ratchet clause, they $3,000 per month. The marketplace falls to were paying $3,000 a month in rent and the $1,500. The recession hits and the tenant is not market fell by 50 per cent to around in a position to pay the $3,000. The tenant then $1,500—which was, in fact, what occurred—they explains that to the landlord. The landlord in turn would be forced to pay $3,300 with the 10 per says that he can pay the $1,500 a month and that cent option in the lease review clause. Hence, he will worry about the balance later on. they were stuck with an unrealistic rent, whereas However, the additional $1,500 per month is the market for new tenants of shops in their continually toted up as a liability. The landlord vicinity was only $1,500. Shops down the road does not want to foreclose on the tenant at a opened at a much lower rent, and they could sell time when, firstly, the landlord may not be in a their products or services at a lower amount, position to find another tenant and, secondly, will which, in turn, meant that the existing not receive any more rent than what he is businesses would go broke—and, in fact, many receiving anyway. But the moment the landlord is of them did. We have seen empty shops around in the position, he simply moves in on the shop, the State. takes over the assets of the business and lets it to another party. This is the tragedy of this What it came down to was that the imbalance recession. in the bargaining positions of the two sides—the tenant and landlord—was such that the landlord The question that has not been answered is could inflict upon the tenant a condition that was why there is such a limit on the availability of retail totally imbalanced and put all the risk on the tenancies in shopping centres and why there is a Legislative Assembly 9501 8 September 1994 limit on the number of shopping centres. Quite encouragement and support to an industry- clearly, as stated in the position paper— led managed and regulated solution.' "The strong position of centre In 1982 the Government adopted this landlords is derived from the spatial recommendation. The Building Owners and monopolies created and/or exacerbated by Managers Association 'offered to make zoning and town planning requirements for concessions on a number of points raised in shopping centre developments." the Cooper Report. The proposed reforms fell far short of those considered essential Why are the local authorities limiting the number for the satisfactory resolution of the of shopping centres? Well, they believe that it is problems confronted by the industry.' not in anyone's interest for there to be an oversupply of shopping centres. Many require The subsequently convened Joint economic impact statements. But, by the same Parliamentary Committee reconsidered the token, once a number of shopping centres are difficulties confronting the industry at length established in an area, there is a limit to how and concluded that special legislation many anchor tenants, or majors, as they are should be prepared to cover not only leases known, are available. Without an anchor tenant a in shopping complexes, but all retail shop shopping centre is not viable and it is not in the leases." community's interest, nor the local government's Hence in 1984 we saw the Retail Shop Leases interest, to have non-viable shopping centres. Act that subsequently many States have But there are also other competing interests, that emulated. New South Wales determined in the is, existing shopping centres have very powerful early 1990s to approach the self-regulation lobbying abilities on councils to limit the number solution and found it did not work. Again to of new shopping centres coming into the quote from the position paper— marketplace. It is obviously in their interest "The R.T.A. (Retail Traders Association of because it ensures the viability of the existing New South Wales) has found it difficult to shopping centres and helps them to maximise identify more than a handful of leases in that the return on their investments through full State which fully comply with the voluntary tenancies and in many cases premium rents. code of practice entered into in 1992 I do not believe that anyone would wish to between the RTA and BOMA." see the positioning and availability of shopping Subsequently, we had the Retail Leases Act centres being opened to the free market. 1994 brought in in New South Wales which is Obviously this would remove any ability of local very much along the lines of the Queensland authorities to properly town plan. The Retail Shop Leases Act of 1984, with proliferation of shopping centres without proper subsequent amendments similar to those in the planning would not be in anyone's interest. draft legislation here today. In many ways, the Unfortunately, we are stuck with the position of a 1984 Retail Shop Leases Act was limited availability of shopping centre space, groundbreaking and almost every State of rightly or wrongly. Australia has emulated Queensland. This State Getting back to the issue of regulation, I say has led the way in the eighties in dealing with the it is important to look at what alternatives there issue affecting small business. It is a pity that the are. As I said, the free market position is not review process has taken so long in Queensland sustainable in that the theoretical free market to reach the stage that New South Wales has does not exist in this industry. To allow the actually been able to implement these proposed marketplace to operate without any limitations amendments before Queensland, without would not be in the interest of the community. having previously had a similar Act. It just shows From what we have seen, we would see even this Government's priorities where small more wholesale bankruptcies and families losing business is obviously at the bottom. I accept the all their possessions. So, other than a regulated fact that the consultation process was a well- environment, there is the option of industry self- conceived and a well accepted process. regulation. That was attempted in Queensland in However,it took about 10 times too long. the early eighties, and again I quote from the The problems associated with retail shop position paper— leases were quite well known in 1989 and early "Having supported the contention that 1990. In fact, I brought the Parliament and the the general conditions of leases and Government's attention to this problem in early shopping complexes were overwhelmingly 1990 in great depth. That was four years ago and in favour of the landlord, the Cooper it is only now that we are addressing it. The Committee recommended in 1981 that 'the process could easily have been achieved, if Government should give every practical there was sufficient will, in a period of six months or less. An issue paper could have been drawn 8 September 1994 9502 Legislative Assembly up very quickly with submissions called for. Government, in the position paper, did not Within two months we would have had propose any radical changes to the coverage of submissions from all interested parties. A the Act. Areas of possible extension were such position paper could have been drafted fairly things as professional offices in office blocks, as quickly. There could have been another month opposed to shopping centres, wholesale food available for further submissions and round table markets, service stations and the like, and also to discussions, with a draft Bill attached to the large public companies that are presently position paper, and within six months a Bill would exempted under the existing Act where their have been ready for Parliament. The problem floor space exceeds 1 000 square metres. I will would have been solved in mid-1990. But, go through those briefly. Any tenant who has instead, we are now dealing with it in the latter retail space in excess of 1 000 square metres, or part of 1994. In the meantime, many hundreds if 10 000 square feet, is obviously a major tenant not thousands of small retailers have paid the and would be in a very enviable bargaining price. position with any landlord. They are not in the The Government should remember that position of needing special legislation to protect almost all big business started off as small them—quite the opposite. They are used, in business. Unless small business is given the many cases, as the draw card to establish a environment to grow and prosper, not only will shopping centre and to attract small tenants. they not grow and compete as a big business, There is no pressing need, nor call, from the but they will not employ the extra staff, and that is community to cover professional offices in office needed to reduce our biggest social blocks and small industrial leases for factories problem—that of unemployment—and they will and industry. Unlike retail shops, offices and not compete and replace imports to assist in our factories do not have their goodwill so much most pressing financial problem: our foreign dependent upon position, nor are their fixtures debt. If this Government had a little bit more and fittings so dependent upon location. Most commitment to getting the economy right rather offices and factories can quite cheaply and than messing around on the fringes of the social simply move to other premises. The availability of problems, we would not have many of the social factory and office space is also much more open problems in the first place. than that of retail shop space. There is much The Government should also remember that more a free marketplace in operation in this area there is no bottomless pit of small entrepreneurs and hence the justification for regulation is very with hundreds of thousands of dollars each to much more limited. The position paper said— throw around, because that is what is required for ". . . since the overwhelming view is that the each small retail operation in Queensland. A definitions work well as they are and the Act vibrant competition between these small traders should not be extended beyond the scope gives the consumer more choice and more intended in the existing legislation. The service. It also is a major plank in our tourist government does not propose to amend industry, not only those shops directly providing the substance of the definition of retail shop services to tourists, but those ancillary and back- lease or associated definitions under up small businesses that are the backbone of Section 4 of the Act." Queensland's tourist industry and industry as a I turn to the issue of service stations in that whole. It is interesting that in August 1993, the context. I quote from a letter from the MTAQ, the date of the position paper, the following was Motor Traders Association of Queensland, stated— signed by Giff Farrell. On behalf of the Motor "The Government has concluded that Traders Association he states— there is an ongoing justification for the "We were given a very clear message continued regulation of retail leasing they did not wish service stations to be matters." included in the legislation, particularly as The position paper quite clearly set out almost all there had been no use by service stations of the provisions that resulted in the Bill before of the Act since service stations had been the House. Yet that was 13 months ago. What included. level of commitment is there where it takes 13 This lack of use was entirely due to the months to go from a position paper to a Bill limited application to service stations and before the House? In fact, it took almost a year to not dictated by any lack of need. go from a position paper to a draft Bill, when there is no reason why a draft Bill could not have If suppliers to these service stations do been included in the position paper itself. not recognise the Oil Code dispute resolution system, then that dispute solving I turn to that section that deals with the process is not available to their service application and coverage of the Act. The stations. Legislative Assembly 9503 8 September 1994

It must be recognised that the Oil Code the difficulty in hearing the honourable member, dispute settlement process is entirely could honourable member try to speak up a little voluntary. louder. The growth in number of service Honourable members interjected. stations lying outside the system increases Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The every year. One example would be the Chair has made a ruling. Matilda Petroleum that could by now have varying types of control of up to 100 sites. In Mr CONNOR: As we see in the Bill, the country areas outside the main regional service stations gain no protection from ratchet towns it is difficult to find sites not controlled clauses and outgoings abuses, etc., and the by petroleum distributors and even in the ability to pass on land tax, etc. This puts in regional towns most sites are supplied and question why the Government is doing this. controlled in various ways by the According to the position paper— distributors, e.g. in Toowoomba." "The MTAQ has submitted that the It states further— coverage of service stations should be strengthened particularly as, over time, an "There is nothing more important in increasing number of service station small business such as a service station to operators are falling outside the protection have access to a low cost dispute resolution of the Commonwealth legislation." system." The question is: how wide is the protection That is the MTAQ's position. It states further— of the PRMF legislation and why is it that service "The Government proposes to delete stations are falling outside its protection? How Section 5AA and insert a provision which successful were the Government's permits the application of Part 4 only of the representations—and this was mentioned in the Act to service stations and that is 'so that position paper—to the Commonwealth such service station proprietors and Government and, specifically, does this landlords may avail themselves of the Commonwealth Act give protection in relation to mediation process under the Act.' and that ratchet clauses and similar outgoings costs the government will then 'make abuses as has been proposed, if there has been representations to the Commonwealth any success in this Government's negotiations Government to broaden the scope of the with the Commonwealth Government in this PRMF Act' "— regard? which is the Petroleum Retail Marketing The question needs to be asked: why are Franchise Act 1980— service stations particularly exempted? Are they " 'to a wider class of service stations.' " not retailers of a product and service? If the protection of the Act is extended to almost all So we see in the Bill that the service stations other retailers, irrespective of their being in a gain no protection from ratchet clauses, shopping centre or not, why are service stations outgoings abuses and the ability to pass on land singled out for this exemption? The position tax. This puts in question why the Government is paper says on page 21— doing this. This is an important section. ". . . the Government is concerned that Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): extending the coverage of the Act to an Order! Honourable members who are on their activity not initially intended for coverage by way into or out the Chamber, could you please the Act, may result in unsatisfactory do so expeditiously. consequences. In this case, the wider Mr CAMPBELL: I rise to a point of order. extension of the Act to service stations may My point of order is that it is very difficult for not take into consideration the special and members to listen to a speech that is being read quite different circumstances that apply to very quickly, that is inaudible, and cannot be this type of business operation." understood. Firstly, what are the unsatisfactory Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! consequences that the Government Honourable members, the question of the mentioned? It does not explain in the position reading of speeches is a vexing question. paper what they are. Secondly, what are the However, numerous rulings by previous special and quite difference circumstances that Speakers and Deputy Speakers have been apply to this type of business operation? Again, made in that members are allowed to refer to the position paper did not explain what they are copious notes. In that regard, the honourable and how this industry is so totally different that it member may continue. However, in relation to should not have this level of protection. The the other matter the member raised, and that is 8 September 1994 9504 Legislative Assembly position paper also goes on to say that such prohibits a lease from providing for the things as— calculation of rent as a percentage of turnover ". . . key money, sharing of goodwill, unless a tenant or prospective tenant requests turnover figures, retail reviews and this in writing by the use of the prescribed form. outgoings either not relevant to the oil Section 7 of the Act prohibits the requirement for industry or are counter to existing a tenant to supply turnover figures to a landlord established practise in that industry." unless the tenant has elected to pay percentage rent pursuant to section 6. The position paper Is this still the case? Is the Government really says— quite sure about that? The Minister needs to confirm that the industry has not changed and "Landlords have strongly asserted that that these processes and practices are not they need these figures on a timely basis to occurring in the industry as a result of their not probably gauge shopping trends and to being covered by the Retail Shop Leases Act. therefore better manage the centre in the The Government is proposing in the position interests of all the tenants. paper at the top of page 22 to delete section . . . 5AA and— Many landlords also admit to including a ". . . insert in its place a provision which nominal percentage rent provision in leases permits the application of Part 4 only of the primarily for the purpose of obtaining Act to service stations." turnover figures from tenants. They do this The Bill goes even further. This is a dramatic by setting a base rent plus a turnover rent to contraction of the extent by which the Retail be triggered at a turnover threshold at a Shop Leases Act confers rights and limitations higher level than reasonably expected from on service stations. The original section 5AA (i) a tenant's business." extended the full rights of the Retail Shop But, of course, with the prohibition of ratchet Leases Act except where they— clauses, they will not be able to do that in future. "Concern the manner in which Further, the position paper says— business is to be conducted in or about the "The Government can see little value in premises by the tenant as a proprietor of a denying landlords access to information service station." which is essential to the good management So under the position paper's proposal, all the of a centre. Therefore the Government rights under Parts 2 and 3 which had previously proposes to delete Section 7 and insert in pertained to service stations, except as stated in its place a provision requiring 'that if turnover section 5AA (i), will be lost. So this is a major figures are provided to the landlord or its contraction in the extent and authority of the agents then these figures would be legislation. maintained in a strict confidence, with limited exemptions.' " The Government maintains in the position paper that— It then goes on to explain that the exemptions are similar to those of the Victorian "To date there has been no dispute Retail Tenancy Act of 1986 and it also goes on to lodged with the Registry by a service station say in the fourth point that— proprietor." "A landlord or agent who contravenes While the service stations may not use the these requirements is liable to pay the services of the registry, that does not mean to tenant for any loss or damage suffered by say they are not taking advantage of the the tenant as a consequence of that provisions of the legislation. It may be that contravention and the level of service stations are a larger operation and that compensation payable may be determined disputes are either satisfied with direct by reference of the dispute to the mediation discussions or before the courts. The fact is that and tribunal process." the industry body, the Motor Traders Association— The QRTSA, that is, the Queensland Retail Traders and Shopkeepers Association, in its ". . . submitted that the coverage of service submission under 5.2 said— stations should be strengthened . . ." "We would contend that this option It seems markedly strange that the Government should remain as is." would go in the opposite direction, and the Government needs to answer why that has been My position, and the Opposition's position, is as the case. follows: the present requirement does not stop tenants from specifically opting for percentage I would like to move on to the area of rents by filling out particular forms. The position percentage rent. Section 6 of the Act currently Legislative Assembly 9505 8 September 1994 paper also shows quite clearly that landlords are other words, the landlord would be able to firstly using this provision to find ways around their require the tenant to supply turnover figures, limitation on disclosure of turnover figures. So it which in turn would entice competition that would seem that the present situation, except would in turn take over the tenancy with that where a tenant is resolute on his or her position, particular type of business, with no is that the landlords are still in a position to force compensation for the goodwill that has been the tenants to give turnover figures. But, of created. course, with the prohibition of ratchet clauses, As the BOMA submission said— this practice will come to an end. In no way does the previous legislation stop "In many cases, the majors are paying a landlord from asking a tenant for turnover percentage rent with the corresponding figures. If, as the Government suggests, it is in turnover figures. The majority of tenants the interest of the tenant to supply this would supply turnover figures when asked if information for the better running of the it is in their interest for marketing purposes. shopping centre, then this tenant will have no There would only be a few tenants that hesitation in supplying those figures. If a landlord would not supply turnover figures to a is abusing the turnover information, then the reasonable landlord and even then, the tenant can quite rightly refuse to give this ones who did not could reasonably and information—that is unless, of course, the tenant easily be estimated." has agreed to a turnover based rent, in which I can see no right of a landlord to the turnover case it is obvious that the tenant has to supply figures of someone else's business. It is a this information. separate business. The question I put to the The Government maintains that bringing in Minister—and this is particularly relevant, the provision, as I mentioned before, that the because I cannot find it in the legislation landlord or his agent would be liable to pay the itself—is: are we going to have regulations in tenant for any loss is based on the fact that the relation to what turnover includes, as does the tenant is able to prove: firstly, that the landlord or New South Wales legislation? The new Retail his agent did disclose this information; secondly, Tenancy Act of 1994 in New South Wales has that the disclosure specifically causes any loss or these provisions. I would ask whether they will be damage; and, thirdly, that there was a specific put into the regulations. loss or damage. All of these three proofs would Moving on—the big ticket items in this be extremely difficult and very expensive to legislation—and certainly the two biggest determine, even in a tribunal situation, especially complaints from the retail industry—are, firstly, against a much wealthier and formidable landlord. ratchet clauses and, secondly, outgoings. The So these provisions in no sufficient way protect legislation, with the exception of a very minor the tenant. clarification that I will deal with at the Committee What we can expect to see is a number of stage, deals with the issue of ratchet clauses less reputable landlords or their agents using quite well. It is a credit to the department and to and abusing these figures for numerous the stakeholders that they have managed to purposes. It is not uncommon in certain work their way through this. The second issue, circumstances for landlords not to renew outgoings, clearly has not been dealt with fully. particular specialty store leases once their This legislation has gone only halfway to turnovers reach a certain level. This trigger solving the major problems within the industry. I turnover is a level whereby one of the national bring the Minister's attention to the clause within franchise chains can compete. A good example the Bill in relation to the jurisdiction of the would be a jeans shop, initially in a shopping tribunal. While the tribunal can deal with the centre where the landlord would not be able to process of determining outgoings, it cannot deal attract a major chain. When the tenant has with the amount of outgoings. I will deal with that established a good business and the turnover is issue in detail at the Committee stage. at a certain level, the landlord would hawk that Quite clearly, there needs to be a low cost figure around to the franchise operators for the dispute resolution system in place. As the area of purpose of attracting a national operator to potentially the largest number of disputes is replace the existing private operator, which prohibited, clearly the legislation falls very short would effectively be cashing in on the goodwill on this issue. What it will mean is that disputes that the small independent operator had created involving the amount of outgoings will be forced in that shopping centre since its opening. into the courts, creating court backlogs and In that there would be no compensation for costing all facets of the industry a great deal of a similar business going into that position in the money. The only winners, of course, will be the shopping centre, it would seem grossly unfair. In lawyers. 8 September 1994 9506 Legislative Assembly

There is also the question as to whether Mr Elder interjected. outgoings will be able to be dealt with at all in the Mr CONNOR: Yes, unfortunately. But, as I tribunal. Legal advice to the QRTSA suggests said, if the Minister listens, I will try to explain their that the tribunal will not have jurisdiction at all. I situation. The Government might like to look at it. will deal with this issue further at the Committee To understand just how draconian and unfair the stage. One has to ask why it is that the Minister leases are, I will give the Minister a few examples would specifically exempt the amount of of the tenants, although I have many examples. I outgoings from being determined by the will table those details. All of the details are here. I tribunal. would ask the Minister to consider those. Mr Elder: What happens now in the For instance, Mr and Mrs Laub have a florist courts? store. Their lease was originally signed in July Mr CONNOR: The Minister will have his 1992 at a base rent of $450 per square metre. address in reply and the Committee stage to They have a floor space of 47 square metres, or cover this. about 20 feet by 20 feet. That is about half the When small businesses are being stood size of a small home unit, or about one quarter of over by very much wealthier and more the size of an average home. From the middle of knowledgeable landlords, a low cost dispute 1992, their rent was set at $21,150 a year, resolution process is only fair. When a small $1,762 a month, or $406 a week. That is a lot of trader is forced into a court, quite clearly the small money for a space half the size of a home unit. tenant will fold under the weight of the This is regional Queensland; it is not downtown disproportionate power of the landlord. Surfers Paradise or Brisbane. This is in the middle of the worst recession in 60 years. There is also a problem in the clause dealing with outgoings. The way it is worded leaves it But $400 a week is just the start. They then very much open to interpretation. I have no pay another $320 a month for outgoings. Those doubt that the clause dealing with outgoings and outgoings do not include their promotion fees, specifically the aspect of "reasonable", which is either. They are extra. So there is another $80 a not clearly defined, will make lawyers a lot of week in outgoings, taking it to almost $500 a money. I will be dealing with that at the week for half the size of a home unit. Committee stage as well. Last year, in July 1993, the landlord took I would like to go on to another extremely advantage of one of its rent review options. The important issue which deals with a reasonable economy is still very much in recession. The part of Queensland and a particular problem with landlord demanded a CPI increase—in other retail shop tenancies. Hopefully, the Minister will words, one based on inflation. Inflation was not deal with this in his reply. This deals with the high, but it meant that their rent increased to ratchet clauses. I bring the attention of the $477 per square metre per year, a moderate House to the example of the excesses of ratchet increase of $27 a square metre. However, this clauses affecting a number of small traders. took their base rent to $22,419 a year, or These small traders have major problems with a $18,068 per month, or $431 a week. This was a regional shopping centre owner. These are $30 a week increase. This husband and wife tenants in a typical shopping centre in regional team were then paying in excess of $500 a week Queensland. These tenants are subject to one to sell flowers from an area as big as half a home of the worst excesses of ratchet clauses that I unit. They would have to sell a lot of flowers! have seen. I have seen many shopping centre However, this year was the gem. The leases, many of them in excess of 60 pages, but I landlord wrote to them a few weeks ago saying have yet to see a more complicated and biased that the centre was doing much better, and that rent review section in any lease. the rent was being raised from $477 per square There are effectively three different ways in to $1,000 a square metre, effective immediately. which the landlord can extract the maximum The landlord had "elected to review the base increase in the rent. It is typical of the ratchet rent determined by fair market valuation". Those clauses in many retail leases. If the Minister had were its exact words—"the landlord had dealt with this issue a bit more expeditiously, elected". Now, that is what one calls a ratchet! many of these poor small retailers would not be in That is more than doubling last year's rent. It is a the position they are in. As we know, this 210 per cent rent increase over the previous legislation is not retrospective—quite rightly so. year—a staggering increase in anyone's As a result, those who are already committed to language. The base rent is going from a bit over existing leases will not receive any benefits from $22,000 a year, or $400 a week, to $47,000 a Part 4, the minimum lease standards section of year or $1,000 a week in one go. They still have this new legislation. This means that ratchet to pay their outgoings and promotional fees on clauses will still be enforceable in their leases. top of that. That is an awful lot of flowers! By the Legislative Assembly 9507 8 September 1994 time they pay the extras, it will be well over of their turnover and the $1,000 a week that they $1,000 a week for a small store in regional are being charged. That is absolutely Queensland. That is simply outrageous, and this outrageous! That is the third part of the ratchet. legislation is doing nothing about it. But it does In other words, if the CPI or the inflation-based not stop there. rent increase is not enough for the landlord, he Mr Elder interjected. then moves to market increases. If that is not enough and if the shop is considered to be Mr CONNOR: I am not suggesting that it doing too well, he then takes 5 per cent of their should be retrospective. I have already said that. turnover. If that is higher, he will charge that. Mr Elder: We are doing away with ratchet But it goes further again. One would think, clauses with this Bill. "Who is this landlord? What sort of a creature is Mr CONNOR: But it is not retrospective, this landlord? This surely is the worst case as I said earlier. scenario." But this is the rub. Guess who the landlord is—the State Government! The landlord Mr Elder interjected. is Suncorp, supposedly the friendly institution Mr CONNOR: Had the Government acted looking after Queenslanders. This supposedly earlier, it might be able to do something about it. friendly institution owns a shopping centre called Canelands in Mackay. From the documents I Mr Elder: You could have acted in '84, '85, have tabled, the Minister will see that this is not '86, '87, '88 or '89. an isolated incident in that shopping centre; it is Mr CONNOR: Ratchet clauses only really the norm. There is one example after another of came to the fore in the latter part of the eighties, these ratchet clauses and the increases that and the real damage of the ratchet clause was were dropped on those tenants in July. There only really understood in the early nineties when are dozens of them. They are just the ones who all those people went down the gurgler, and the signed up in 1992, in the middle of the Minister knows it. recession. All of these people are having But it does not stop there. The landlord has increases imposed on them, and in most cases it discovered that he miscalculated the outgoings is double. This Government is doing nothing for the year and so has dropped an additional about it with this legislation, and one wonders charge of a further $862 on the husband and why it waited so long to make this change to the wife florists to make up the difference. That is a legislation. It knew years ago that the ratchet 22 per cent increase over and above what they clause would do a great deal of damage to small had already been charged during the year. They businesspeople, yet it waited and did nothing. It had already paid $3,800, and now the landlord is absolutely outrageous! was demanding a further $862. I have already tabled a letter from the Let us sum it up. The husband and wife Treasurer, Keith De Lacy, in relation to Mr and florists, the Laubs, rented a half unit sized Mrs Laubs' situation, referred to via their local shop—a small shop—in regional Queensland member, the Minister for Primary Industries, Ed two years ago for about $400 a week plus Casey. I have tabled his letter, as well. The outgoings. Last year, during the recession, they biggest problem they face is that, if they want to had a CPI increase or an inflation-based increase challenge this particular rent review, they are which brought their rent, when one allows for forced to become involved in a very expensive outgoings, to in excess of $500 a week. This process. They have been informed that it will year, with no notice at all, they had their rent cost them at least $3,000 for an independent increased by more than double to in excess of valuer and then, if they are still not happy, they $1,000 a week, plus a bill for $860 in extra go to another independent valuer, and then they outgoings. move into an arbitration and a tribunal situation, which will cost them many thousands of dollars But it does not stop there. The landlord has more. now asked the Laubs, the tenants, for an audited account of their turnover for the year, because if After getting through the recession, which 5 per cent of their turnover is in excess of this many small businesspeople did not, they simply new rent—that is, the $1,000 a week—then they cannot afford to pay for all these extras, but they will be charged even more again. It is another part certainly cannot afford to pay $1,000 a week in of this ratchet clause. It gives a third potential rent, and that is the situation they are in. I am rental review for the landlord. Even if the $1,000 calling on the Government to review all its a week is not high enough, if they work out that 5 departments and institutions and the type of per cent of the turnover of the shop is in excess retail leases they enter into. What it simply comes of the rent they are paying, then they have to pay down to is that it is totally hypocritical for a the extra—the difference—between 5 per cent Government to be bringing in legislation banning ratchet clauses while it has one of its major 8 September 1994 9508 Legislative Assembly institutions making outrageous profits by using rush with mass closures. That is the scenario that those clauses in draconian leases. is facing this shopping centre, because so many I refer to the Minister's second-reading of the tenants are affected. If Suncorp does speech. I have to admit that he hit the nail on the force this mass closure of small business in head when he said— regional Queensland, this Minister through his delay and the Minister responsible for Suncorp, ". . . the review of the Act had concluded the Treasurer, Keith De Lacy, are equally that the imbalance in market power in responsible. I have brought this to the attention lessor/lessee relations is such that of House today; I have tabled the documents. It continued Government intervention in retail is now up to the Ministers to do something about tenancy matters is warranted. This it. If they do not, then they will have upon their imbalance in market power has manifested consciences not only the destruction of a itself in practices such as: ratchet clauses number of small businesses but also the family and multiple rent review . . ." life and the livelihoods of many people directly The Minister is saying that ratchet clauses are involved in these enterprises. They will not only brought about because of imbalance in market lose their business, but also they will lose their power. He was quite right. Therefore, by the homes. Most of them have mortgaged their Minister's own statement, by imposing a ratchet homes against their businesses. It will not be as clause, Suncorp—a wholly owned Government simple as walking away from the business institution—must be taking advantage of an because at these outrageous rents they will not imbalance of market power. This Bill is all about be able to sell them. Suncorp has also required addressing the abuse of market power, yet them to sign personal guarantees, so they also Suncorp is the worst offender in Queensland. face bankruptcy. Any business future for them Quite simply, the Minister needs to do one will be dashed for many years. That is what these thing. At least he and the Government should people face as a result of ratchet clauses inflicted have clean hands. They should go out there and upon them by this Government. instruct all Government institutions to outlaw, Ratchet clauses are well known, and they retrospectively, all ratchet clauses so that at least have been well known to be a major issue for a they are not responsible for small businesses number of years. As early as 1990 in this place, I going bad in the next recession. It may also mean expressed my abhorrence of ratchet clauses. that it will flow on to other landlords and at least The Minister and the Treasurer were well aware the Government will then be in a position to point of the dangers of ratchet clauses, but through the finger at the worst excesses of these ratchet Suncorp this Government continued their clauses with clean hands. operation. Not only did it continue their While many sections of the community and operation, but it also refined it to an art form. The many regions of Queensland have started most comprehensive ratchet clause in coming out of the recession, most small retailers, Queensland's history is being inflicted upon especially in rural and regional areas of these small traders. One might say, "Well, they Queensland, are not; they are hanging on by signed it, they are stuck with it." But that is whole their fingernails. Any major increase in rent will point of this legislation, and what was determined affect their viability, and many cannot even afford by the Beddall report in 1988. Quite simply, the the cost of disputing the rent review. The ones two parties to the deal are in far different who have—while it has cost them a great deal of bargaining positions. money—have succeeded in gaining major I highly recommend that the Minister have a reductions. That shows quite clearly that the detailed look at the very comprehensive Beddall Government, through Suncorp, is making an report, by one of his Federal colleagues back in ambit claim—an ambit claim that it knows is unfair 1988. That quite specifically deals with this issue. and unreasonable, but because for financial It was only as a result of that that the true dangers reasons the people are not in a position to of ratchet clauses fully came to the awareness of dispute it, the Government may be the big the public and Governments. I quoted that at winner in the short term. As a result of these length back in 1990, but the Government, ratchet clauses, many of these shopping centres through the department, had access to that long will have large numbers of empty shops during before that. That was over six years ago and it the next recession, and this Minister will be has taken until now to get rid of the ratchet responsible. clauses. Honourable members might remember If these poor people cannot afford to that there was a change of Government in 1989 challenge the rent review, they certainly will not and it has been this Government's responsibility be able in the long term to pay this level of to deal with it ever since. increase in rent. Their alternative will be to go out As a small retailer, one cannot hope to the back door, either quietly and slowly or in a big compete with the market knowledge and the Legislative Assembly 9509 8 September 1994 industrial muscle that the landlords have, and I understand, as the small retailers that is why we have this legislation. If the free understand, that from a legal perspective they do marketplace was working, we would not need not have a leg to stand on—they signed the this legislation at all. So here we have the leases and they will go down with them. I industrial muscle of the Government-owned understand that this legislation is not enterprises being flexed on small retailers in retrospective, and so do the small retailers, but it regional Queensland. I think many small retailers would be a magnanimous gesture on the part of go into these leases pretty starry-eyed, many of the Government to prohibit ratchet clauses in all them not worrying about the worst-case scenario existing leases where it is the landlord. It would within a lease. Many are assured that their be an indication, a moral victory, for this landlord is reasonable and that the ratchet Government to flag to the business community clauses are purely there to be used in that this Government is not simply talking about extenuating circumstances. Could we blame a small retailer for feeling confident that a major the evils of ratchet clauses but is biting the bullet Government-owned institution such as Suncorp and doing something about them—leading the would be understanding and flexible with way. Just as the Government is trying to lead the tenants? It would be a normal thing to think. But way by requiring quality assurance on its surely a so-called compassionate, understanding suppliers so, too, can this Government lead the Government would have a compassionate, way by banning ratchet clauses in all its existing understanding institution operating a shopping leases where it is the landlord. This would be a centre. moral victory for the Government. It would save the livelihoods, the home lives, the families and I believe these people had an expectation—and a justifiable expectation— that the businesses of many small retailers around a Government owned enterprise such as Queensland. And it just may be catching; many Suncorp would be reasonable and other landlords may, as a result, think twice understanding when dealing with them and that before inflicting the worst of ratchet clauses on it would not inflict the worst-case scenario, and their tenants when it is publicly known that all the the worst-case scenario of a ratchet clause, Government-owned shopping centres are not especially while the Government was negotiating enforcing them. the prohibition of ratchet clauses and was very Debate, on motion of Mr Hollis, adjourned. vocal about the evils that they created. I might add that the Government put out the issues The House adjourned at 10.05 p.m. paper in relation to this before these leases were signed. So, the issue was well and truly known to this Government before these leases were signed.