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RAND History Project Interview: Charles Carey 1/22/1991

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RAND History Project Interview: Charles Carey 1/22/1991 CAREY, CHARLES. Date: January 22, 1991. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 2 hrs; 25 pp. Use restriction: Not established. Carey's describes his education and work background prior to RAND; his first job at RAND. RAND's internal communication problems and reasons for it. Discussion of articles in RANDom News. Description of one-page summaries of technical material and why it was written for the Air Force. Herman Kahn and the civil defence study; description of Kahn's briefing for General White. Carey's interaction with the Board of Trustee and the Military Advisory Group. RAND's publication. The Helmer-Dalkey simulation as an example of RAND humor; rift between the Social Science and Math Department. "Escalation of Iran" film. Advertising in the mid-'50s. Carey's article on Housekeeping in Haunted House, and thoughts on nuclear deterrence. Departure from RAND. TAPE 1, SIDE 1 1-2 Carey's early life; educational and work background prior to RAND; hiring at RAND; initial impressions of RAND. 2-4 Carey's first job at RAND; discussion of RAND's internal communications problem and reasons for it. 4-5 Analysis of RAND's internal communications problem. 5-6 Carey's discusses the nature of RAND research in the early days of his career: competition between projects; sharing data; the effect of individual personalities on projects. 6-7 The role played by Carey in his communications position; description of his interactions with the research teams. 7 Carey's describes his written work; project summaries, report to the RAN Board of Trustee. 8 Discussion of carey's articles in RANDom News. 9-10 Carey discusses his role as editor of RANDom News, and the function it served at RAND; description of one-page summaries of technical material which was written for the Air Force. 10-11 The importance ot' the one-page summaries to RAND management; comparison of the different attitudes of Larry Henderson and Brownlee Haydon. TAPE 1, SIDE 2 11 Carey describes the process of crafting the one-page summaries, and how he tried to relate them to specific Air Force needs. 12-13 Herman Kahn and the civil defense study; description of Kahn's briefings and personality. 13-15 Carey describes his interaction with Kahn; description of Kahn's briefing for General White and the Military Advisory Group; Carey's taping of that briefing, and why he taped it; how that transcript became the basis of Kahn's book on thermonuclear war; Carey's friendship with Kahn after leaving RAND. 15-16 Carey's interactions with the Board of Trustees and the Military Advisory Group; his assistance in writing briefings, and his attendance at Military Advisory Group meetings. 16-17 Carey discusses the various RAND publications he contributed to, and sums up what his major responsibilities were. 17 The special character and function of humor at RAND. 17-18 The Helmer-Dalkey simulation as an example of RAND humor; the resulting rift between the Social Science and Math Departments. 18-20 Carey discusses RAND's filming of briefings and his role in the filming; other uses of film at RAND, in games and simulations; "Escalation in Iran' film. 20-21 Carey's work with Jim Cook on films, and their differences of opinion, style, and technique; general discussion of the use RAND made of films. 21-22 Management's point of view about the function of communication at RAND. TAPE 2 I SIDE 1 22 Discussion of RAND's foray into public advertising in the mid 50s; role of Jim Allen and Si Bourgin. 22-23 RAND's concern with the management of the research function in the late 50; reasons for the concern (inter-service rivalry, RAND going in many different direction); Ed Lindblom's analysis of the situation; Paul Kecskemeti and the surrender study. 23-24 Carey identifies the most significant and interesting research areas he was associated with; Carey's article, Housekeeping in a Haunted House, and thoughts on the subject of nuclear deterrence. 24-25 Carey discusses reason for his departure from RAND in 1965, and what the atmosphere at RAND was like at that time. CAREY-1 Interviewee: Mr. Charles Carey Interviewer: Mr. Martin Collins Date: January 22, 1991 Location: RAND Corporation, Santa Monica, California TAPE 1, SIDE 1 MR. COLLINS: To get started, I'd be interested in a brief sketch of your background, where and when you were born, and your educational and work experiences before you came to RAND. MR. CAREY: I was born in 1921 in New York. I came out here at a very early age, so I was brought up in California. I went to UCLA and worked in those days, the early days of the war, went to school part time and worked part time in frenetic activity at the aircraft plants. This was the center of Lockheed, North American, and so forth. I worked in the Aerophysics Laboratory, North American Aviation for much of the time. COLLINS: You were working and going to school at the same time? What was your area of concentration? CAREY: It was psychology and political science. I came to RAND in 1952, and I think I'm one of the few people who was hired from walking in off the street. I knew the area. I knew there was a mysterious building there with no marks, no signs or anything. So I put my head in to find out what they did, what went on, and I ended up coming back later and applying for a job. I had a talk with Brownlee Haydon. My experience had been fairly broad. I'd also done some writing in connection with my earlier work writing of two kinds that were mixed. I had a mixture of part time jobs. I worked for a couple of newspapers, small newspapers, and I also turned into writing proposals for North American Aviation in the early days of the first missiles. Wernher Von Braun was here from Germany and they were developing what I think was called the Navaho Missile. So I think it was on the basis of that mixture that Brownlee, without much additional time, just hired me and I came to work. COLLINS: Had you heard about RAND at North American? CAREY: No, I hadn't. I knew almost nothing about it. COLLINS: In addition to proposal writing-- I assume you were probably one member of a team of engineers who provided some input into that kind of thing. What were the other activities CAREY-2 that you were doing at North American? CAREY: Well, earlier I had worked in a laboratory and did materials testing and, engineering. I was signed up to go into the Air Corps and I was pulled out because I had invented a little gadget that turned out to be important. It was a hose clamp for the airplane, for the P-51. A number of them had been crashing because of engines catching fire. So I invented this little clamp that helped take care of that problem. I was essentially inducted but then pulled out to finish that mechanical job. COLLINS: Did you manage to finish up your work in UCLA somewhere along this path? CAREY: I finished it up while I was at RAND. After I joined RAND. COLLINS: This was a bachelors degree? CAREY: Yes, and then various other studies, but once you got to RAND, it was like a university without students. It was a very rich environment. It was much more interesting and fun to work at RAND than it was to go back to school. COLLINS: What were you initial impressions of the organization, if you can recall, after you had this first discussion with Brownlee as you walked off in the street? CAREY: Well, I was immediately quite taken with it because of the openness of it and the informality of it. There aren't many places where you can walk into an office and talk to a mathematician, and the next office an economist, and down the hall a philosopher. Abe Kaplan was here at that time, and a new economist and, well, it was just wonderful. The people were--it was a family atmosphere at that time, I think. And there was no formality. You just introduced yourself. You walked into the office and introduced yourself, sat down and started inquiring. After my initial job, one of my main jobs was to simply do that. The problem of internal communication was a very large one because the people were scattered. You had a lot of independent people, each person working on his own project or a few team projects no one being quite sure what was happening. Very loose coordination, and it became obvious that RAND had a big internal communications problem. That turned out to be much of my work. When I came in 1952 the first job I actually had was to help write the original proposal that made RAND an independent nonprofit corporation. There was a transition of RAND and an Air Force project, and that was a proposal written to the Ford Foundation. The Ford Foundation had given a loan to RAND, and CAREY-3 that happened just before I came. The very first job I had was to help write that initial proposal. Brownlee was mostly concerned with external communications and management. So the job of internal communications was left to me and I took off on that. COLLINS: You may have already outlined the answer to this, but how did you come to appreciate that this was a problem at the RAND organization? Was this something that was worrying Brownlee and others in the company at the time, or how did it manifest itself as a problem? CAREY: Well, it's always a struggle to formulate a problem.
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