Motn of Thanks °n JANUARY 30, 1980 President's Address 136

[Shri G. M. Banatwalla] fact is that there is a narrowing of the domestic market; and unless and would be ascertained, but I am sure until that problem is solved, our that this Government will come for- economy will not revive, and the ward with an unequivocal assurance various problems are not going to be to this House that all the recommenda. solved. tions of the Gujral Committee will be duly implemented in the shortest With these words, I conclude, with possible time. all best wishes to the new Govern- ment; and hope that in the interest* X am sorry that the President of of the nation, the Government suc- has not specifically referred to ceeds in solving the various problem* the various riots that have taken that are there to-day. place. 1 am sure that the matter will receive full consideration, protection ’ THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRIMATI ) ; Mr. Speaker, Sir; will be afforded to the persons displac- before I begin my reply, may I say ed in their riots and complete rehabili- a word to the hon. Member opposite tation of the innocents will also be who raised a question regarding the assured. Republic D ay Parade? I want to Before I conclude, I must express inform him that the programme for our sense of shock and disappointment the Parade, the items and the details at the President of India refraining were decided long before our Go- from an unequivocal condemnation of vernment came in. We did not in- the unabashed, and blatant military terfere with it in any way. In fact, intervention by the Soviet Union into I did not know what it was till w the affairs of Afghanistan. saw the Parade. Anyhow, the part of the NCC does not come before the AN HON. MEMBER: Has it got any Government. But 1 agree with him bearing on the minorities? that such details should be looked into. I hope he and all other hon. SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA: The Members will join me in congratula- Soviet Government says that the ting our Defence Services on the ex- Soviet troops were sent to Afghanistan cellence of the Parade and the Retreat in response to the request made by the All our foreign visitors and others new Afghan regime there, but that is were most impressed. not a fact. As you know, about four to six thousand Soviet troops had Mr. Speaker, Sir; I have tried to be been flown into Kabul beginning from present during the debate on the December 24, at least three days be- President's Address, and specially fore the Government of Amin was during the speeches of the hon. Mem- overthrown. Our own national interests bers of the opposition; but certain un- and international interests are involv- avoidable engagements have prevent- ed in this, Let there be a clear and ed me from listening to them all. For unequivocal condemnation of this un- this I am sorry, but I do get the main abashed incident and also a call should points put before me day by day. be given to the Soviet Union for the withdrawal of its troops from there, 1 mean no disrespect when I say I wanted, to say a few more words that the debate, from the Opposition about the Assam situation. How- side, lacked any heart or conviction. ever, I will try to take some other Most of the arguments made were opportunity to speak on this issue. feeble. Many Hon’ble members are still continuing to flog the dead horse There are various economic ques- of Emergency. They are still to find tions also. It has been tried to be their way out of the trauma of the made out in the House that there past. 1975 and 1977 now belong to were surpluses of savings, foreign history. We have entered 1980, & exchange and foodgrains. But the new decade which has started with Iy j Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA)] President’s Address 133

challenges of gigantic proportions, I would like very briefly to deal with internally in the shape of economic the question of persecution. What and social problems, and in did the —in the Janata international affairs, the threat to Party, I include both; the Janata and non-alignment and. to our very secu- the Lok Pal which is Janata (S)— rity. The President’s Address was do after the elections? My party had written when the Government was offered full cooperation in any na- about 4 days’ old. Therefore, it is tion building activity, in any prog- not very realistic of hon. Members to ramme for the welfare of the people. expect that we would, at the time, In fact, my hon. friend opposite -and be able to give details of how we are former colleague will forgive me, going to .tackle these 'Various prob- one of the reasons for our quarrel lems. It was physically impossible to was that we felt that he was bending get any precise view of the state of over backward to support the then the nation at that time. Ruling Party. ' Anyone who tries to belittle the SHRI YESHWANTRAO CHAVAN achievements of the Congress rule (Satara)-; Question! during these 30 years can do so only ‘ SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI; That by shutting his eyes to reality. In was my view, Chavanji. That is why, 1947, we were a country newly emer- X said, we differed. But what was ging into Independence after a long the response of the Janata Party? period of colonial rule. We had a political structure which was frag- Instead of allowing my party to mented and an economy which was, function as an Opposition, a cam- in many ways, primitive. Different paign of repression was unleashed parts of the country were existing in against me, my family and my asso- different countries^ (Hon. Members ciates. will perhaps remember—and speciallly There were a series of Ipolitically those from Bengal—of one of the motivated commissions set up. Now last articles written by Gurudev how many were there, I think...... Tagore. He said: “1 know the British will leave India. The question before AN HON. MEMBER: Who is keep- us is, in what condition will they leave ing the account? the country.” And we are all aware (Interruptions) of that condition. SHRIMATI, INDIRA GANDHI : We laboured hard for 30 years to ’<>/j\part from commissions, there were build a nation that was politically other enquiry authorities. We are told viable and economically sound. We by the Home Ministry that there were achieved a strong political unity in 34 commissions. Tailored evidence spite of the immensity and diversity was produced before them. The at- of our people. We developed demo- mosphere in the proceedings, as I cratic traditions that survived know from personal atmosphere, re- through years Of political strife. From minded one of Medieval Britain when a subject state, we grew to a free malicious pleasure was derived in Ration whose voice was listened to harassing the accused and also the with respect in the councils of the days of MaCarthism in the USA world. when public hysteria was whipped up and distortion, concoction and in- The Opposition has chosen to rake timidation was practised on a large up the past. I have preferred to scale through government con- look to the future, but, because they trolled media. Heads of commissions, have referred to certain things, they judges and others were having meet- have left no option for me but to ings with the Prime Minister and the deal with some of the issues with Home Minister. Dozens of cases were ■which they seem obsessed. Firstly, started against my son. Officials close 139 Motn. of Thanks on JANUARY 30, 1980 President’s Address 140

[Shrimati Indira Gandhi] SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I can understand the hon. Member’s to me were harassed and intimidated; and not only they—if they were embarrassment. An ambassador him- self told me that he got these instruc- guilty, well there is some excuse—but tions. their relatives, their old parents, their sisters who had not very close SHRI ATAL BljHARI VAJPAYEE: connections with them over the years, From whom? all of them were bounded and perse- cuted. Indiscriminate searches at SHRI RAVINDRA VARMA (Bom- their premises were made. Large bay North): Yet the order be placed scale sealing of bank lockers, freezing on the Table of the House, if it is true. of bank accounts of relatives, im- pounding of passports, income tax (Interruptions) cases of relatives; officers were sub- SHRI : jected to investigation by Special courts. Even there was a query; I am prepared to undergo any punish- parents were asked to explain about ment if it is proved that such instruc- expenditure which was incurred be- tions were issued by me. | fore 1947! I was asked how I got a (Interruptions) certain cheque from some university in I960. Arrests of former Ministers MR, SPEAKER: Order, order, j such as Shri Gokhale? Prof. Chatto- Please take your seats. padhya, Shri Bansi Lai, Shri Malaviya, Shri P. C. Sethi and others, top busi- SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: nessmen were also not spared arrest. Let her disclose the name of the I am going through it very briefly. If ambassador. I went into details, we could tell you SfHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I some harrowing tales. have no hesitation in disclosing the During the period from the end of name. I will do so to Mr. Vajpayee. March 1977 to the middle of January 1980, ten CBI officers visited foreign SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: countries in connection with the in- Why to me alone? Why not to the vestigation of eight CBI cases. They House when you are making a public visited the United Kingdom, Switzer- allegation? | land (Berne & Geneva), Stockholm, (Interruptions) Frankfurt, Bonn, New York Washington, Paris, Singapore, Bang- MR. SPEAKER; Order order. kok, Tokyo and Osaka. It was said the main purpose of these visits was SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: to obtain evidence against me, my There is a limit. family and my close associates. But you all know what was the outcome. SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: Yes, I have no doubt that it gave an op- there is no limit to what you have portunity of combining business with done. pleasure. But apart from this, the attitude! Our ambassadors were toM SHRI RAVINDRA VARMA: The immediately after the government Prime Minister has no right to say came into power to burn any pictures this. If it is true, let the order be or any writings by me or my father placed on the Table of the House.... Jawaharlal Nehru. ... (Interruptions) SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I do (New Delhi); I challenge that state- not know who gave the order. I am ment. It is not true. only repeating what I was told. I aiq. (interrupftonij not Interested in who Issued those 141 Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) President's Address 142 orders. I was told this by aa ambas- SHRI INDRAJTT GUPTA (Busir- sador and I have no reason to dis- hat): What does hauled up mean? believe him. I can also share this information that he is not a member SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI. Well, of the Congress Party. they were called and asked, told whe- ther they wanted government sup- SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: port to continue. So what? PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Raipur): You are describing emer- SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: His gency conditions. reply was that he would not burn (Interruptions^ them; if he was not allowed to keep them, he said he would shut them SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: up in a cupboard, and he did lock Thank you very much indeed. That them up in a cupboard. is exactly what I am saying. These were carried out by those people SHRI RAVINDRA VARMA: An- whose main slogan was their belief other skeleton in the cupboard. in democracy and in the freedom of the individual. We did not bring SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI. This emergency through the back door. was only in external affairs—the way We brought it openly. We did not the pictures were torn, trampled arrest anybody from the back door. upon. One Air Force officer told me Everybody knew that these people that right in the beginning, he had a were being arrested. As I said, if any picture of my father, me and himself. wrong things were done...... He was told—*1 do not know at what (Interruptions) level—by somebody who visited the office to remove it. He said: it is Please keep quiet beciUie I am entirely a personal mater. I am not going to tr*ke a long time. I do not keeping it as a political gesture, it is mind if you want to sit on. I have a personal momenta Very soon after plently to say. The more quietly he was transferred, whether the you listen, the sooner it will transfer was connected with it or not, be over. I am not going to cut out I do not know, but he felt, in his anything because of your shouting, mind that it was connected. It is not I am not going to sit down because of just one case. There are thousands your shouting, let this be very clear. of cases like this, not just one. Every effort was made to humiliate me in (Interruptions) every possible way. Foreign ambas- I have heard that some of the films sadors have told me. I am not going taken when I visited the forward to reveal their names, Mr. Vajpayee. areas were also destroyed by the In- It is only fair that the House should formation Ministry. So far as I know, know. They are respectable people the hon. Minister at that time ack- of high position in their countries. nowledged that they were lost. They have told me that they were hauled up for visiting me. Many of The hand of the R.S.S. was clearly those who came to see me, came in visible in the administration, the taxies or walking. So, this was the manner in which the hon. Member atmosphere created. Anybody who here has spoken about riots and visited me, if they had anything to various other incidents that took do with the Government, whether place, the manner In which tbe RSS they were in University or any de- infiltrated into various strategic posi- partment which remotely had some tions. in education, in administration, Government help, they were hauled in the police force and various other up. areas. 143 Motn, of Thanks on JANUARY 30, 1980 Presidents Address 144

[Shrimati Indira Gandhi] Some have said that they have continued. Of course, they have con- Was not my expulsion from Parlia- tinued. Can we change it suddenly? ment, immediately after winning But certainly I think that already election was an insult to the people of Chikmagalur? And to the demo- there is a slight change. cratic process itself. Was it not bull- dozing by the majority? With regard to communal clashes, during the last three years the mino- We have said that we do not want rities have suffered because of the to be vindictive. But the facts must increase in communal incidents. In come out. 1975, there were 962 people injured and 33 killed. In 1976, there were An effort was made to distort even 794 injured and 39 killed. The very the previous history, not to talk of next year—1977—the number of recent history. We know the hon. people injured goes up to 1,119. In Members from the Jan Sangh. 1978, the number of injured people were 1,853. In 1979, the number of SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: injured was 2,346. The number of We have nothing to do with the Jan dead was 260. Sangh. SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I Casteism and caste feeling have think the gentleman who has been been features of Indian society for busy trying to prove for some years centuries. At the beginning of the as to how the Taj Mahal' was a Hindu post-independence period, there seem- temple belongs to Shri Vajpayee’s ed to be a lessening of aggressive party. This may be an extreme c$se. caste feeling, but with the coming in But there are many things in between of democracy, it came up again be- which are equally dangerous to the cause people looked to caste support. survival of the Indian tradition, which However as soon as they realised that is a tradition of absorbing, of synthe- this support was not enough to sis and of great tolerance, it does not balance the hopes of other castes, again believe in falsehood or in rubbing out w e found a lessening of caste depen- something which some do not happen dence. During the Janata and Lok to approve of because it does not suit Dal rule, not only did we find caste their picture of India or what they in our political life and in our public want to do. life, but casteism and communalism were injected into our institutions of Now, the neglect of fundamental higher learning. Our civil services development by the Janata Govern- and even such innocent-looking pro- ment was matched by equal irres- grammes like adult education were ponsibility in the day-to-day manage- vitiated. Even in the ment of the affairs of the country— elections, the effort was to fight on political and economic. the basis of casteism and communalism in the vain hope of winning elections Members have spoken about the by misleading the people. I think sharp deterioration in the law and this election has proved that our order situation and the sense of in- people are much more broad-minded security, particularly among the with an overall national outlook than weaker sections. many ol cur friends opposite would like them to be. SHRI INDRAJIT GTJPTA:. .Among women also. ■Crime against scheduled castes be- tween 1975 and 1979—The number of SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: cases reported in 1975 was 7.781. I Specially of women; I have mention- am skipping the middle portion. In ed all this in my speeches outside. 1978, the number was 15,059. In 145 Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) President’s Address 146

1979, upto September, the number was About industrial production, we 10492. Crime in Delhi went up again built the sinews of industrial strength from 23,105 in 1976 to almost the through the development of the core same figure in the first half of 1979— sectors of coal, steel and oil and the 21.307. Figures are sometimes boring expansion of the transport infrastruc- but since the others have quoted some, ture and induction and generation of a I think I am going to bore you with wide range of technologies. The index them. The hon. Member, Chaudhuri of industrial production in 1951 was ^ said something about 100. In 1977 it has tjone up to 389.2. foodgrain production. In 1950-51, the Similarly, coal production in million production was 52.58 million tonnes. tonnes: In 1973-74 it was 81.8, in In 1973-74, it went up to 404.G7 and 1976-77 it was 100.8, in 1979 up to in 1975-76 it went up to 121.3. We November, it was about 65 million certainly did import foodgrains be- tons. Saleable steel in million tonnes: cause we were determined that our 4.47 in 1973-74, 7.41 in 1976-77, and people should not starve. the provisional figure for 1977-78 is 5.08. Railways: 1973-74 it was 162.1 PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: million tonnes. Originating net tonne During Janata ruJe it went up to 126.5 kilometres: 1,09,391. million tonnes. In 1976-77 it goes up from 162 to SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: Pro- 212. In 1977-78 it comes down to 210 duction did go up. We are not be- and in 1978-79 it comes down to 199. littling that. But you had excellent In the first 8 months of 1978, 19 million rains whereas in the other periods, we mandays were lost and in the corres- had faced serious droughts. You had ponding period of 1979, about 36 years of very good rainfall. What is million mandays were lost due to in- the result this year? This year, food dustrial disputes. is not available for the drought- affected area, although when we left Chaudhury Sahib made a statement a surplus, we were then told that about India going down from 1966 in there was enough for 2 consecutive the list of countries. I am told that years of drought and there would be this is because the number of countries no difficulty in the country. has increased and looked at it from that angle, the position in 1976 had Coming to irrigation, we started off considerably improved compared to with a mere 22.6 million hectares of that in 1973. utilised irrigation potential in 1951. By 1977-78, there was an increase of 26 million hectares. I have not got Export trade: From 1974-75 to 1976- the middle figure. But the figure for 77, the average annual rate of growth 1973-74 was 42 million hectares. was 26.8 per cent, from 1977-78 to 1979- 80, it was 6.2 per cent. There was an increase during the Janata rule, but I think hon. Members The Janata Party increased our im- will realise that this is the result of port bill: In 1973-74 imports were the investments in the years before Rs. 2.955.4 crores; in 1977-78 they Tose 1977 on irrigation projects. May I to Rs. 6,025 crores. This was partly ask, how many new irrigation pro- due to the need to go in for heavy im- jects were put up and would they ports of items such as steel, cement, yield results immediately even if you coal and aluminium to meet shortages had begun them up in 1977? At least in domestic production which had been in one place a bridge that was built allowed to develop due to inefficient by us was listed as an achievement of utilisation of existing capacity. the Janata government because it had not been formally inaugurated during That is how there Is a rapid widen- the Congress regime. ing of our adverse balance of trade and 147 Motn. of Thanks on JANUARY 30, 1980 President's Address 14&

[Shrimati Indira Gandhi] was that the experts who sit in the Agricultural Prices Commission know we are ill-equipped today to pay for nothing about the difficulties at the the petroleum and other costly im- field level and that our Government al- ports which we desperately need from ways accepted their opinion. Well wft abroad. went into this in great detail, and we had many discussions with the hon_ It is not true that the large buffer Members, and on the whole we tried stock of foodgrains was built up with to give farmers a fair deal. But what* imports of food. We did import food ever price was agreed to was regarded when it was necessary, but gradually by us as a support price. But what we had built up stocks to make us self- happened ip the last two years? The sufficient in foodgrains, that is how. the peasants did no,t get a proper price for Janata Party Government was able to, sugarcane, or for other crops. When I export some soon after coming into went to the Faridkot constituency—I power. do not see the hon. Member here— from a distance I thought snow had fal- In March, 1977, the national buffer len seeing the piles and piles of white stock was 18 million tonnes. This was Narma cotton. Nobody was buying it. the result of a massive domestic pro- In U.P. I was told—I have not ascer- curement which itself was a consequ- tained this from Government sources— ence of the steps taken by the C vern- it is what the farmers told me before ment in my time to make nidian the election and during the campaign, agriculture more productive. that they were not able to get the price declared by the Government. It was From 1966-67 to the period when my when most of them had sold their pro- Government laid down office in 1977f duce at a lower price5 almost at dis- the. national income at constant ©rices tress rates, that the Government came increased from Rs. 27,298 crores to forward and announced the higher Rs. 40,534 crores, yielding an annual price. What happens? Tho,se farmers compound rate of 4.03 per cent. In who had already sold their stock could 1978-79 the growth rate was 4.06 per not get that price. So, that money cent which is similar to the growth ol would go.... ten years. A "long-term growth rate of 4.03 per cent in ten years with fluc- SHRI CHANDRAJEET YADAV tuations in agricultural production is (Azamgarh): It has been a regular fea- much more difficult to achieve than 4.6 ture for the last so many years. per cent in a year of good monsoon. SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: The Export of engineering goods increas- farmers told me that this did not hap- ed from Rs. 356.6 crores in 1974-75 to pen before. Why should they come Rs. 566 crores in 1976-77. specifically to tell me if this was an earlier experience? Many MemB&rs have expressed their concern over the~ problems of agricul- SHRI INDRAJIT^ GUPTA: Every ture. The hon. House knows how very year they are suffering, why should anxious we ourselves are. Choudhury they not tell you? Saheb has been pleased to state in his election speecttes that I cannot tell the SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: Re- difference between a cow and a buffa- garding many other matters, people lo'. Hon’ble Members can themselves have not hesitated to state: “This is judge the seriousness of such remarks. our problem, it is a long-existing prob- I am not called upon to be a judge at lem, please look into It”, but tills time either cattle sfiows or buffalo shows, they did not say so and because of their but I was concerned during my years experience with sugarcane, people to- in office to see that our farmers get day are not in a mood to plant sugar- remunerative prices. Their complaint cane, and we are threatened with a i 49 Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) President's Address 150* shortage of sugar in the coming sea- Several hon. Members have spoken t son. This sort of thing has not hap- about unemployment. It is indeed a pened before. Farmers were planting matter of grave concern and it is at more and more because they were get- the root of many other problems which ting a proper j>rice. When you do not arise. Whether it be a law and order get remunerative price, you are bound problem or even, I would say, the very to feel that since it is not a paying serious situation in our North Eastern crop why should I depend on it? region. We can certainly have short This is just what I am saying, Mr. term measures, but basically, employ- Gupta. What I am trying to put ment can be created when the econo- across is had this happened in the mic problems are solved and not just previous years at the same level, those by having deadlines. Many hon. mem- farmers would have been discouraged bers on this side have spoken about than also from planting those particu- the rol’jng Plan and how the whole lar crops. But they were not discour- process.. . aged, they planted more of sugarcane, more of everything. Now for the first SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE: What time they are saying that since this is about unemployment relief? not a paying crop, they will not plant sugarcane. This is the fact. SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: All those things will come up later. I am SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE (How- not in a position to say anything con- rah): This has happened in the case of crete because we have to know what jute, tobacco and cotton. exactly it involves. There is no point in m y announcing that I will do some- SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: No. thing and find later that I cannot do SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE: Be- it. ' cause you visited that place, they The numbers in India are so vast came up. with this problem. that many programmes which are most SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: urgent and necessary are beyond our They also came here to visit me. All I capacity, especially at this moment can say is we shall certainly look into when the economy is in a bad way. this problem. We do not want our far- But we will certainly look into the mers to suffer. I do admit that these problem in depth and give it our policies have to be planned in a far urgent attention. more long term perspective. We tend We have always regarded planning to .take decision in a somewhat adhoc as a tool for economic and social mannert dealing with immediate prob- change. During the entire period of lems. If I go wrong somewhere, I the Janata and Lok Dal rule, the Five have no hesitation in admitting it. Year Plan could not be finalised even Somehow we were always caught in by the Central Government( let alone last moment decisions and this caused having consultations with the States. some problems. Now we must attempt I am astonished that any Indian should a long term perspective. My colleague, ignore all these achievements in agri- the Minister for Agriculture, has al- culture and industry, which have taken ready dealt with the measures which place. As 1 have said in my speeches, we propose to take to alleviate the suf- I am not responsible for them, it is the ferings of our people in the drought Indian people through their labour and affected areas. 1 should like to men- sacrifice, the farmer has increased his tion particularly ffeat we shall arrange production, the industrial worker also for close monitoring of the drought through his own work. I am not going situation and take an active interest to belittle their contribution because in the proper implementation of the that is the main thing. But how were food for work programmes. The pro- they able to do so? Because we gave tection of cattle will also receive grea- them a policy, because we gave a defi- ter attention. nite direction. The same la the esee I^ i Motn. of Thanks on JANUARY 30, 1980 President's Address 152

[SHrimati Indira Gandhi] viously spreading falsehood and now also they continue to do go. with our young scientists and techno- logists. Today, India has the third lar- gest reservoir of engineering skills in My hon. friend has raised the ques- the whole world and one has only to tion of stoppage ol relief work. Dur- look arcund us and compare our poli- ing the flood situation in Delhi—I for- tical and economic situation with those get whether it was 1977 or 1978—when I of the countries which have acquired visited the affected areas, we found that those areas which had voted for our freedom in the post war period, to members to the Corporation and the jufige our record in a proper perspec- Metropolitan Council, were denied tive. Those who try to decry our per- their rations. It was only when we formance, show an utter lack of natio- made a big noise that the rations were nal pride and faith in our people. resumed. I am not going into all these I have mentioned drought relief. Just things. It just shows their attitude. today, I had a very large contingent I am not mentioning the names of from Madhya PradeslT also MPs from all the members who have spoken. But Madhya Pradesh, from Rajasthan, from I should like to express my apprecia- Uttar Pradesh, from Bihar and other tion of the note of sobriety which Shri States which have been suffering from Jagjivan Ram brought to the whole de- drought, who came to see me regard- bate. He referred to the need for radi- ing the inadequacy of relief work and cal changes in the system for the abo- the low wages which are being given lition of poverty and the solution of to them. They have repeatedly com- our economic problems. I wish he plained about the lack of availability had spelt out his ideas and told us what of various essential articles and that radical steps he had in mind consistent recovery of loans was being done even with the sort of democracy that we when farmers were in such deep dis- have in India. tress. . Another friend from the Marxist There are two matters which have nothing to do with drought but which party opposite underlined the need for I must mention here since my attention fundamental changes in the system. He was drawn to, them by the large crowd cited the example of China. It is inter- that came from Madhya Pradesh; they esting to see how international poli- were also mentioned by MPs irom Ra- tics move. During the war in Vietnam jasthan and yesterday my hon. friend when we were supporting the Viet- and colleague, Shri Kamlapati Tripathi namese, we were consistently told by also told me that* this was happening the United States and other Western in U.P, also. The State Governments authorities that they were fighting in in these places have begun a vigorous Vietnam ojily to protect us from China, programmes of sterilisation and demo- that the great threat to India was lition and they are propagating that China and, therefore, it was very “We told you, when the Indira Gandhi wrong of us to support Vietnam since Government come? back, sterilisation the Chinese were also helping the Viet- will be renewed. These are instruc- namese against U.SA. We were con- tions received from the Centre.,f sistent in our policy towards China. In spite of the fact that we had suffer- ed aggression—at that time not only to rr £ 1 % f% ainjt were there no relations, there was1 hos- tility—we continued to, support China’s entry into the United Nations for the SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I very simple reason that a large nation should like to tell this honourable whose population is l/ 6th of the world House that no such instructions have cannot be left out of any international gone from the Centre. This is typical decision. Whether we like their view- •of the maf Her in wHTch they were pre- point or not, is an entirely different 153 Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) President's Address

matter. We were not at all opportun- Perhaps we have moved slowly. We - istic; we were consistent In our policy. have not been able to eradicate poverty—nor did we ever say it could SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE: I be eradicated so soon. All we are spoke about the economic system. saying.. .(Interruptions). (Interruptions.) SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE: She SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I knows perfectly well why we prefer, am ju&t telling you the whole story. on some issues, the Chinese Govern- (Interruptions). I shall come to that ment. She knows that. What I said aspect. was about their economic system. They have solved “The unemployment prob- I wanted to give the whole picture lem; they have solved poverty. (Inter because suddenly, almost overnight, ruptionsf. The question is, China haa we found that China was said to be a begun a programme of being the first great friend and we had to be protect- modern country within this century. ed from the Soviet Union and Vietnam! That is why they are taking the help It is a little difficult for me, a simple of technology from all countries includ- person, to understand such things! ing India. That does not mean they (Interruptions.) are dependent on western countries mainly. It is not correct. I am coming to the economic part. AN HON. MEMBER: He is more Chi- SHRI SAMAR MUKHERJEE: You nese than the tThinese! are jumping from one thing to another. (Interruptions}. SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI; The hon. Member may have greater inner MR. SPEAKER: She will come to information than I have but, so far aa that point. I understand the situation, the Chinese have not been able to make much in- SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: With dustrial development. They have got a all due respect. . ^Interruptions,). I do number of atomic bombs, but their in- not know w hy the Hon. Members op- dustrial base isi not a strong one and posite should be so sensitive. I have the various experiments they carried not said a word about his party: I am out with regard to small scale produc- trying to give the background of a tion ol steel etc. are now regarded to particular situation. have been not as successful as they Now let us come to the socialist sys- were thought to be at that time. tem. From violent hostility the west- AN HON. MEMBER: May I ask ern world and some friends from the a question? (Interruptions). Jana Sangh and others sitting oppo- site switched over to a feeling of eupho- MR. SPEAKER; Order, order. No ria, saying that everything was per- question is allowed. Please take your fect in China—unemployment has been seat. wiped out, everybody had food and SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI; Fur- everything was perfect. Not long after- thermore, those other Members of wards we read of unemployment riots the Opposition who are now so loud in some cities—in Shanghai and other in their condemnation—I am going to cities. Then we read that this coun- talk about this later, so don't ask try+ which was supposed to have attain- ed high industrial development, is now questions about it—of Soviet troups in Afghanistan had not a word to say totally dependent on western help for its industrial development. F u rth er- when Chinese troops entered Vietnam. more they are partners with the USA— I do not know, if the USA is a social- U hrs. ist country! Does the Hon. Member Now, Sir, even in the very short want us to go back to that position? time that we have been in office, there • 155 Motn. of Thanks on JANUARY 80, 1980 President’s Address 156

[Shrimati Indira Gandhi] ther revolution took place and Presi- dent Tarakki came at the helm of has already been a marked change in affairs. In November last, he was the perceptions of foreign countries of overthrown by Mr. Amin. Again in our willingness and ability to play a December last, President Amin was useful and constructive role in inter- overthrown, and now President national affairs. Karmal is the Head of the Govern- ment. In recent months the world has moved dangerously closer to thermo- To my hon. friend from the Muslim nuclear confrontation among the big League, I would say—again I cannot Powers. The atmosphere of the cold vouch for this but we have been told— war has been revised with all its that it was in the time of Amin him- negative consequences. We hear even self that help was asked for from -quite responsible people being carried Soviet troops.. . ■ away by emotion and indulging in talks of mobilisation for war, limited AN HON. MEMBER; Told by -nuclear war, flexible response, and so whom? «n, We must realise that, in this armed- SHRIMATI INDIjRA GANDHI; We to-the-teeth world, the slightest mis- have been told by the Soviet Ambas- calculation may end in an unpreceden- sador. ted catastrophe for the entire human race. Therefore, in what we say or There have been problems between dot we must take into account all the Afghanistan and Pakistan. It was a .factors and in our own humble way legacy of the colonial domination of try to defuse the crisis. this sub-continent. What happened in Afghanistan was an internal matter of We are convinced that, only in an that country. For the past two years, atmosphere of universal peace, can the the Afghan Republic has faced nu- resources of the world, both financial merous internal -and external prob- and technological, be available for the lems. There have been reports of mutual benefit of humanity. There- armed attacks from .based locajted fore, we are anxious that the present outside the country. We are told that drift towards a hot war should be the Government of Afghanistan in- stopped by the combined efforts of all voked the provisions of the Treaty it right-thinking people in the world. signed with the Soviet Union and asked for military help to meet the Hon. Members are rightly concerned threat to the Republic. Whether the about developments in Afghanistan and request for military assistance was the decision of the United States, right or not, whether the Soviet Union China and some other countries to should have rushed military aid or rush arms into Pakistan. I should not, is a matter on which there ia like hon. Members to bear with me division of opinion among the powers because once again I should like to of the world. Each one is looking at give the background of the situation. the problem not at all from the point I want to draw the attention of the of view of the people of Afghanistan, House to the sequence of develop- but from geo-political and strategic ments in Afghanistan. It is a strate- considerations. This will further com- gically located country. Some years plicate problems without solving any- ago—we all know what happened thing. I have stated our awn view, when we were not free; I am not which is that we do not approve of going into that period—the monarchy foreign presence or intervention any- was overthrown and Afghanistan be- where in the world. However, we do came a Republic. President Daud not believe in a one-sided condemna- *took over power. In April. 1078, ano- tion. We have been watching *with i$ j Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) Presidents Address 158

concern the build up i» the Indian Already, contrary to the expressed Ocean and some other countries, desires of the littoral States, a naval which is now being stepped up even build up has been taking place in further with Pakistan becoming one the Indian Ocean and huge armada of the important bases for this. is being deployed in the Arabian Sea. This is being done in the name of se- It is necessary to reaffirm our com- curing free flow of oil from the Gulf mitment to nor-alignment and lo em- to the industrialised west. This is phasize the independence of our bound to have reactions, and the judgement on each issue, which is Indian Ocean in our region has be- not going to be affected by pressures come an arena of super powers. Old from any quarter. Our geo-political treaties are being invoked and new situation, our commitment to certain ones are being forged. Appeals have fundamental principles, our histori- been made to the religious senti- cal experiences, particularly} since ments of the people of western Asia the days of Independence and above by outside powers. We know from all our national interests will be the experience how and against whom determining factors in our foreign these weapons have been used in the policy. past.

As I said, there is a deliberate ef- We have conveyed our views to fort to label us as pro-this or pro-that. Pakistan and the Governments of the We are not pro-any country except United States, Soviet Union and pro-India and this is what we intend other countries. We have once again to remain. When we judge these told the leaders of Pakistan of our issues, we judge them from the point sincere desire to promote friendly of view of our national interest and relations and co-operation in every from what we consider to be in the sphere in the spirit of the Simla interest of world peace. Agreement. We hope that neighbour- ing countries will avoide getting in- All our efforts are directed at volved in this geo-political game of securing the speedy withdrawal of one or another super power and res- Soviet troops from Afghanistan. pond positively to the hand of friend- Many big and small powers are in- ship and co-operation which we have volved. The training of armed bands, extended to them. providing bases, entering of arm- We want to improve relations with ed troops across the border and in- China, consistent with our national habiting another country and some interests and the five principles of other such activities do not creat con- peaceful co-existence. fidence among neighbours. They only prolong the misery of the As the President has stated in hia people concerned and create condi- Address, we shall further strengthen tions of hostility among the States. and deepen our friendly relations We cannot but feel disturbed by the with the Soviet Union and consolidate reaction of some powers over these our co-operation with the United developments in Afghanistan. Bil- States. I want to make it clear that lions of dollars have been asked for our relations with one country is not and hundreds of millions have al- at the cost of our relations with an- ready been committed to Pakistan in other. As a sovereign and indepen- military aid by USA. Other powers dent nation we a ct in the best in- are being persuaded to make their terests of our people and the cause own contribution to convert Pakistan of world peace and co-operation. into an arsenal. The People's Re- public of China has also pledged to Some hon. Members have referred provide arms and other necessary as- to the Islamic bomb. Nuclear bombs sistance to Pakistan. and other bombs are weapons of 1^9 Motn. of Thanks on JANUARY 30, 1980 Presidents Address i6Q

[Shrimati Indira Gandhi] with the extraordinarily grave and delicate international situation. mass destruction. There is nothing Christan, IslamiCj Hindu, or Buddhist We believe that the best way to about them. The production of nuclear ensure world peace is to1 break down bombs, by any country in our region barriers East-West, North-South con- is bound to create a reaction in others frontation and try for the coopera- which will increase the suspicion and tion of all nations for economic deve- fears of the intentions of the bomb lopment. producers. We have made it clear that India has no intention of produc- Mr. Speaker, Sir, an hon; Member ing nuclear weapons, but^ at the same spoke about the minorities. I don’t time we do not give up our right to want to go into the details. We are u»e nuclear energy for peaceful and deeply concerned with the question developmental purposes. of employment opportunities for minorities and their other problems. General Zia-ul-Haq has told us We are equally conscious of the need that he will not produce nuclear for economic development for them bombs. We can only hope that he and the development of the Urdu lan- will honour his assurance. guage which I do not regard as a language of the minorities. People in every State speak U rdu. Initially I The situation in South-East Asia had considerable difficulty in under- continues to cause concern. We do standing the Hindi broadcasts of 0ur not subscribe to the view that any Radio or the language used by various country has a right to teach a lesson Hindi Departments. to any other country. Instead of us- ing the refugees for interfering with SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Mr. Sathe the affairs of the other countries, to note. conditions should be created in which SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I those desirous of returning to their said initially. Now, I have leamt it. homeland may do so. Refugees should not be made use of as pawns In the minorities there are not only in their power game. However, this our Muslim brothers, although they new variant of the cold war is tak- are the largest in number, there are ing place in the setting of the inter- also many other minorities. We are national economic crisis fuelled by equally oonsicous of th eir problems the higher cost of energy and rise in and the need to help them, specially, tflie prices otf industrial equipment. towards their development. While the situation require^ expan- While the hon Member waa speak- sion of the world economy by free ing, my colleague Shri Shiv Shankar flow of capital and technology, an was telling me of the work done in ever-expanding world market and a Andhra Pradesh for the Urdu Aca- new international monetary system, demy. We started that programme and the cold war climax and the conse- it has been well implemented to quent military outbreak will close the Andhra Pradesh in different cities. I avenues for their realisation. The should like to congratulate those Developing countries will be the young members who have made their worst sufferers; they will be subject- maiden speeches here, specially, Shri ed to pressures, inducements and K. K. Tiwary, Shri Madhavrao Sclndia e v e n de-stabilisation; they will be and General Sparrow. I congratulate drawn into military conflicts. In them. such a situation, there is a danger of the backward states and the exter- SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: What mist elements being drawn into an about those from the Opposition. adventurist action. We have to keep all Many youngmen from here also these matters in mind while dealing spoke. 161 Motn. of Thanks on MAGHA 10, 1901 (SAKA) President's Address 162

SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI; I the.y can also come before Parliament congratulate them also. I do not ends. . know many but I hope to know them soon. Some hon’ble Members did not Perhaps you were not here when I get the time to speak. I am sure they informed the House that we had will make an equally good contribu- agreed to Shri Samar Mukherjee’s tions later on. suggestion that the Leaders of the Opposition an^ we should meet with Mr. Speaker, some hon. Members the leaders of political parties in have made the criticism that the Assam to try and find a solution. We President’s Address lacks direction. I are fully aware of the difficulties and do not understand this at all. On problems of the AssameSe people and every important aspect of our national also of the hardships and the sufferings life, the President’s Address spells out which some of them have undergone new directions of Government policy and the very brutal killing of some and Government action, whether it people. But anything that is said be in the field of law enforcement or might aggravate the situation. t That planning for nation-building or the is why we think it is better to try to management of the economy or the find a solution to this delicate pro- welfare of the weaker sections. Our blem and also to try and convince objectives are clear and are surely the people that however great the national in content. I do hope that problems agitation is not the solution. all Members of this House, whether If Assam deprives some region of in the ruling party or in the Opposi- some goods, then other regions can tion, will extend their full support deprive it of other essentia] goods. and cooperation in this great task and Similarly, if there is reaction by non- in successfully meeting the Assamese, then that would only add challenges which confront the nation. to the suffering. So^ this time all of us must—however strong our Many amendments have been moved feelings and I can fully understand On the Motion of Thanks. I have the extent of your agony—show self- dealt with some of them in my re- restraint and pool our energies to marks but I have not been able to convince those who are indulging in deal with them extensively because wrong action and to assure, them that that would take a longer time. the problems which are worrying them will be solved but it cannot be But the socio-economic measures a one-sided solution. The whole which will be unfolded in the coming picture has to be taken into consi- months in furtherance of the Govern- deration. ment's broad objective^ will answer the amendments. So, I request the hon. Members not to press them but Sir, I commend this Motion to the to withdraw the amendments. House.

Sir, I thank al] those who have MR. SPEAKER: A number of taken part... amendments have been moved by Members to the Motion of Thanks. SHE I K. P. UNNIKRISHNAN: Shall T put all the amendments to What about Assam? the vote of the House together or does any Hon’ble Member want any parti- SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I cular amendment to be put separate- have spoken on Assam earlier. There ly? is nothing specific I can my. Some groups are coming to meet me. We SHRI RAMAVATAR SHASTRI are trying to get in touch with the (Patna): I want amendments No. 6 leaders of the political parties so that and 13 to be put separately. 2385 LS- 6