JAMES GLEESON INTERVIEWS: CHARLES BLACKMAN 26 April 1979 JAMES GLEESON: Charles, Could We Begin with the Pictures You Are Sure About
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JAMES GLEESON INTERVIEWS: CHARLES BLACKMAN 26 April 1979 JAMES GLEESON: Charles, could we begin with the pictures you are sure about. Give us whatever information you can about them. CHARLES BLACKMAN: The first one—which seems appropriate, as it is the day after Anzac Day—is The March, Anzac Day. JAMES GLEESON: No. 5. CHARLES BLACKMAN: No. 5 comes from the exhibition I had in 1958/59, before I was awarded the Rubinstein Travelling Scholarship. I did two of these pictures: one is called Dawn Service and the other is called The March, Anzac Day. So they belong to that era of my work. JAMES GLEESON: Is the information on our card correct? We donʼt have any medium. CHARLES BLACKMAN: It is oil and enamel on masonite. JAMES GLEESON: Fine. This is photograph No. 4. CHARLES BLACKMAN: Three children by the pond was painted in London in 1961. I had a studio in Jacksonʼs Lane. I had three studios in London: one in Jacksonʼs Lane, one in Archway Road, and one in Regentʼs Park. The one that I had in Jacksonʼs Lane was lived in by Len French after me and by Barry Humphreys after that. Yoko Ono moved into the one I had in Regentʼs Park and then I moved out. JAMES GLEESON: I see. That is not part of a sequence. CHARLES BLACKMAN: No. When I first went to London, at the beginning of 1961, Brian Robertson was organising the Whitechapel exhibition. He also organised exhibitions for Lawrence Daws, Brett Whiteley and me at the Matthiesen Gallery, where this picture was shown. How it was purchased I do not know; I have forgotten. JAMES GLEESON: Does it say on the card? CHARLES BLACKMAN: It says ʻpurchased from the artist, November 1963ʼ. It must have been— JAMES GLEESON: In the days of the old Art Advisory Board. CHARLES BLACKMAN: Yes. In November 1963 I was still in England, so it could have been bought from my studio. Or I could have sent it to Australia; it might have been exhibited here. It is very hard to track that down. JAMES GLEESON: ʻOil and enamelʼ— 26 April 1979 CHARLES BLACKMAN: It is oil and enamel on board, which was the medium I was using at that time. JAMES GLEESON: This, as I remember, is a big painting, although we do not have the measurements for it. CHARLES BLACKMAN: There are three panels, three feet by four feet, with a four-foot height upright, which means that it is four-feet high by nine feet long. JAMES GLEESON: And it is called Blue waves. CHARLES BLACKMAN: It is called Blue waves. It was painted when I had my little studio downstairs in the very house that I live in now. I did a whole series of pictures on Bondi Beach. It was inspired in a vague kind of way by Seuratʼs Bathers, although this is rather a demure kind of object compared to that. It is painted on canvas that is stretched over masonite panels. It is just a straight oil painting. There are no other mediums used in it. JAMES GLEESON: Where does it come from? CHARLES BLACKMAN: It comes from Rudy Komon, 1968. JAMES GLEESON: It was exhibited, I suppose, at that gallery? CHARLES BLACKMAN: It was in the exhibition, yes. JAMES GLEESON: No. 1? CHARLES BLACKMAN: No. 1 is a monotype, which I did a great deal of in the mid-fifties. This is just one of them. This would have come from a set of sketchbooks. JAMES GLEESON: It is a nude. CHARLES BLACKMAN: It is a nude, yes. JAMES GLEESON: Charles, would you describe your painting? CHARLES BLACKMAN: It is oil paint. I did a series of monotypes and, now that you remind me, I must do some more. It is a sheet of glass where you use the straight oil paint without any medium because, if you use any medium at all, it starts to harden and you donʼt get a proper lift. If you keep changing the paint you have applied, the complex thing you have to work out is if you used too much turps you stained the paper, and if you used too much linseed oil you burned the paper. So I would pre-mix the paint into a fairly liquid state and then use it like that without any medium, and that seemed to be relatively successful. You got a very thin print; each line was picked up in a fairly refined way. I found that interesting. JAMES GLEESON: Good, and that was one of a whole group. CHARLES BLACKMAN: Yes, I did about forty or fifty at the time. JAMES GLEESON: We have some others. 2 26 April 1979 CHARLES BLACKMAN: I think you might have. They were done on standard sheets of foolscap typing paper. JAMES GLEESON: I see. This is a fairly recent acquisition, and one of my favourites—Luna Park. CHARLES BLACKMAN: Luna Park was done after had I lived in Melbourne for a while. Obviously, you can see influences of the work of Nolan and Tucker, who were there at the time. This is when I first started to meet the Australian figurative painters. Before that, when I lived in Sydney, my painting was fairly formal. I was influenced more by Picasso and Matisse and Miro than I was by anybody else. JAMES GLEESON: Charles, before we go any further it might be a good idea to recapitulate and tell us where you studied, how you began—background information. CHARLES BLACKMAN: Not facts and figures, because you have all that facts and figures stuff. JAMES GLEESON: You were born where? CHARLES BLACKMAN: In Sydney. I was born in Kingʼs Cross. JAMES GLEESON: What date was that? CHARLES BLACKMAN: It was fifty and a bit years ago—12 August 1928. I remember that when we moved to Manly we were very poor, my mother and my three sisters. We had to put all our clothes on when we went over on the ferry. I think I had three coats and four pairs of shoes and six pairs of trousers. It was like all these little pobbles getting off the Manly ferry. I left school when I was 13½. Young people who come from difficult, complicated and fractured backgrounds canʼt assess what is happening to them. I was fortunate in as much as I had a gentle mother. When I left school there was threat of war and a lot of young men were going into the army. I was too young, so I went to work on a newspaper, where I worked throughout the whole of the war. JAMES GLEESON: What newspaper was that? CHARLES BLACKMAN: The Sydney Sun. It is very hard for me to pin down the exact date, but I think I left there when I was about 19. JAMES GLEESON: Up to this time you had had no art training? CHARLES BLACKMAN: You cannot say that if you have worked for a newspaper you have had any art training. JAMES GLEESON: Were you drawing? CHARLES BLACKMAN: I worked in every department. I worked in the compository department, the shipping department, the Newcastle Sun department, or whatever you like. I did finally end up in the art department, as the boy who washed out all the bottles and the brushes. They all remember me very clearly because I always used a four-letter expletive when they asked me to change the water in their jars. I remain a memorable character in their minds. 3 26 April 1979 They were all wonderful people—terrific. I did have a certain talent and they were very encouraging and introduced me to life classes. The moment I got into the life class, my whole concept of art changed totally. JAMES GLEESON: Where was this? CHARLES BLACKMAN: I canʼt remember where it was. It was in a funny little broken down old studio down in the Haymarket. It was full of red velvet drapes and strange amorphic beings all sitting around with plaster cast statues. I thought it was all very odd. JAMES GLEESON: It wasnʼt Julian Ashtonʼs— CHARLES BLACKMAN: No; I never went to Julian Ashtonʼs. I had a friend who went to Julian Ashtonʼs. He was taught by Dick Gibson, who was obviously a wonderful man and kept saying to me, ʻWhy donʼt you come along here?ʼ JAMES GLEESON: Gibbons. CHARLES BLACKMAN: That is right—Henry Gibbons. He was a terrific man. JAMES GLEESON: Yes, so I believe. CHARLES BLACKMAN: But for some reason or the other, the more he said it to me, the more perverse I became. Then I met a lady poet from New Zealand called Lois Hunter. She was the wife of Louie Johnson. She was a wonderful New Zealand poet and an extraordinary woman. We used to go to the Society of Realist Art life class and she turned up and started talking to us about Matisse, Picasso, Derain, Rimbaud and Verlaine. We had never heard any of these people. It hit us like a bomb and changed our lives. I gave up my newspaper life and took up drawing. That is all I did until I was about 21½, when Barbara and I went to Melbourne. Then I started painting. JAMES GLEESON: Was this one of the paintings you painted when you went to Melbourne? CHARLES BLACKMAN: This was after I had met Arthur Boyd and John Perceval. When I first went to Melbourne, John Perceval was a potter. He wasnʼt a painter; he had given up painting altogether. I was a pretty wild little person and I said, ʻWhy are you making all these pots when you should be painting?ʼ And he said, ʻNo; I donʼt want to do painting.