Thursday Volume 517 28 October 2010 No. 61

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 28 October 2010

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2010 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 443 28 OCTOBER 2010 444

5. Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): What House of Commons steps he is taking to ensure the economic sustainability of the rail network. [19916]

Thursday 28 October 2010 10. Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): What steps he is taking to ensure the economic The House met at half-past Ten o’clock sustainability of the rail network. [19921] 12. Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): What steps he PRAYERS is taking to ensure the economic sustainability of the rail network. [19923]

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Hammond): Recent estimates by the Office of Rail Regulation suggest that the UK railway has costs up to 40% higher than comparable European railways. To Oral Answers to Questions secure a fair deal for passengers and taxpayers in the medium term, we must get the cost base of the railway under control. The Rail Value for Money study led by Sir Roy McNulty will report in the spring, and the TRANSPORT Government will then respond to its recommendations. We have recently completed a consultation on passenger rail franchising, and will publish our response in due The Secretary of State was asked— course. Severn Bridges (Tolls) Peter Aldous: The East Suffolk Line has a vital role to play in helping to bring jobs to the east Suffolk and 1. Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): What recent Waveney area. Can the Minister confirm that that will representations he has received on the method of be taken into account when investment decisions are payment of tolls on the Severn Bridges; and if he will made? make a statement. [19912] Mr Hammond: I think that my hon. Friend is referring The Minister of State, Department for Transport to the so-called Beccles loop, a scheme currently being (Mrs Theresa Villiers): The Department for Transport developed by Network Rail whose implementation is has recently received representations from the Wales planned for December 2012. Network Rail is expecting Office about the method of payment on the Severn a £1 million contribution from Suffolk county council. Bridges. The Secretary of State has met the Deputy Subject to that, funds are available for the scheme, and First Minister, and payment methods at the Severn it is expected to proceed on schedule. Crossings were discussed. Iain Stewart: I welcome the Government’s commitment Jessica Morden: The facility enabling people to pay to major rail infrastructure projects between our major with credit and debit cards—for which I was grateful—was cities, but does my right hon. Friend agree that the introduced in time for the Ryder cup, only to be whisked long-term sustainability of our rail network can be away again the minute the event was over. That has enhanced by smaller projects such as the completion of caused confusion. My constituents would like to pay by the east-west rail link between Bletchley and Oxford? modern methods, which is fair enough. Can the Minister assure me that an end to the situation is in sight? Mr Hammond: I entirely agree. When I surveyed the proposed route of the high-speed railway a few weeks Mrs Villiers: I can. I know that a long-running campaign ago, I had an opportunity to examine the alignment of has been conducted by a number of Members. the proposed link. We will shortly begin discussions As the hon. Lady says, the system was introduced for about the programme of enhancements that the the Ryder cup. We considered it important to meet the Government wish to secure for the next railway control deadline, given the significance of the event. The temporary period, which will begin in 2014-15, and I am sure that scheme has been withdrawn for the moment, but is due the project mentioned by my hon. Friend will be one of to be back in operation on Friday next week. That gives those that will be considered carefully. us a chance to do some more work in order to make it more efficient, but there will be further work to make it Jake Berry: The Rossendale to Manchester rail link is more efficient still. We hope to introduce a system in the vital to economic development in Rossendale. Will the new year that will not require PINs. The temporary Secretary of State agree to meet representatives of the system does require them, and that causes delays and East Lancashire heritage railway board to explore ways adds to congestion. of upgrading this heritage line to a commuter link?

Rail Network Mr Hammond: I agree that good transport links with Manchester are vital to the regeneration and economic 2. Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What steps he is success of my hon. Friend’s area. I know that the local taking to ensure the economic sustainability of the rail authorities in the area, together with Greater Manchester network. [19913] passenger transport executive, have been working on a 445 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 446 scheme, for which the local sustainable transport fund rail vehicles to ease overcrowding and improve the that we have announced—or, alternatively, the regional passenger experience or do we not? We have taken the growth fund—may be a potential source of funds. However, decision that investing for the long term is the right I or one of my colleagues would be happy to meet my answer for the United Kingdom economy. hon. Friend. Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): It is Karl McCartney: With regard to the economic good to be facing the right hon. Gentleman across the sustainability of the rail network, particularly in my Dispatch Box for our first Transport questions. He constituency of Lincoln, does my right hon. Friend again spent the last week all over the media, from believe that it would be helpful and desirable for Network “Newsnight” to “The Daily Politics”, pretending to be Rail to act more reasonably and wisely in its economic Chief Secretary to the Treasury, so I apologise to him modelling, and to reconsider its proposal to close the for dragging him back to his day job. Why did he tell level crossings in our city, including the one that dissects The Times that fares would rise by 10% over the spending the high street, for over 40 minutes in every daylight review period when commuters are actually facing a hour, a proposal that will decimate my constituency’s hike in fares of 30% plus? economy and the wider economy of Lincolnshire? Mr Hammond: I welcome the hon. Lady to her place. Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Perhaps I cannot tell her and her sister apart and that is that question. I am aware of the impact that the level why I was responding to the shadow Chief Secretary crossing in Lincoln has on the life of the town. Indeed, I earlier this week. She refers to a quote. On my arithmetic, have a similar situation in my constituency. There is an RPI plus 3% for the last three years of the spending issue about the way scarce and valuable time on level review period, with RPI plus 1% for next year equates crossings is divided between the railway and the road to a 10% real-terms increase in the regulated average user. That must be informed by some proper cost-benefit fare over the period of the spending review. analysis. The good news is that some new barrier technology is under assessment, which might help us, through a Maria Eagle: I have the quote in front of me. The technical solution, to reduce the amount of barrier-down right hon. Gentleman used a figure. He said this; it is in time necessary. quotation marks, so he can tell me if he was wrongly quoted: Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): If the railways are to be economically sustainable, passengers “If you are paying £1,000 for your season ticket now, it could have to be able to get through the stations and on to the cost you £1,100 at the end of the period”. trains, and many disabled people still cannot access That is not saying that it is a real-terms increase of 10%. large numbers of stations and trains are still inaccessible. That is saying that it is an increase of 10% in total. His The Government have decided to abolish the Disabled Government’s own Office for Budget Responsibility Persons Transport Advisory Committee. What process predicts inflation of at least 3.2% from 2012. That will will be put in place instead to ensure that the good work mean a rise of at least 6.2% a year, meaning that by that has been done to improve access is not lost and that 2014, fares will rise by over 30%. I would have expected we do not go backwards? better standards of arithmetic from someone who would rather be in the Treasury. Mr Hammond: I welcome the hon. Lady’s question. Let me try the right hon. Gentleman on another The decision to abolish DPTAC was taken because question. Why has he scrapped the cap on individual disability issues have been mainstreamed into the fares that we introduced? Does he understand that that Department’s assessment processes and disability factors will mean many fares rising by more than the 3% above are brought into the advanced planning of programmes inflation that he has allowed? Therefore, for the sake of at all stages. As she will know, there is a rolling programme hard-pressed rail users, who are already struggling thanks of improving access at stations, which Network Rail is to other measures that the Government are taking, will funded to deliver. That programme will continue through he now abandon that stealth tax on commuters? this control period and into the next. Several hon. Members rose— Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): I speak regularly to businesses in Wirral, which tell me that they benefit Mr Speaker: Order. This is the hon. Lady’s debut. In greatly from the improvements to the west coast main future, questions must be shorter. line driven forward by the previous Government, but they are extremely fearful of ticket prices going up by RPI plus 3%—excruciating rises at this fragile economic Mr Hammond: I think Members will understand that time. What can the Minister say in response to those what matters is the real-terms increase in fares, and that concerns? is what I was referring to. The hon. Lady asked about the average fare cap. She Mr Hammond: As I said in my opening remarks, we talks as if in the past rail companies were restricted on have a problem with the cost base of our railway and in individual fares. That is not the case. There was always a the medium term there is no doubt that the challenge basket approach until this year—strangely enough, a for us is to get that cost base under control, so that we general election year. For this year only, the previous can ease the pressure on passengers and at the same Government announced that that system would be time ease the pressure on taxpayers. However, in the abolished and that companies would be limited on short term, the decision that had to be taken was individual fares. We have gone back to the basket system simple: do we go ahead with investment in additional because it provides the freedom to respond. 447 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 448

Maria Eagle: It’s a stealth tax. on our roads. Has any assessment been made of the implications of the cut in local funding for the lives of Mr Hammond: It is not a stealth tax because companies people on our roads? are only allowed to increase regulated fares by a weighted average of 1% above RPI in the coming year across all Norman Baker: The hon. Lady has considerable the regulated fare pool. knowledge of transport issues as a result of her role on the Transport Committee, and I think she understands Local Transport Funding that what the Government are doing is freeing up local councils to spend their own money rather than determining 3. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): What assessment the number of grant schemes centrally. There have been he has made of the likely effects on local transport 26 grant streams for transport funding for local authorities, schemes of the implementation of the proposed reduction but that will be reduced to four. That will enable local in funding for local government resource grants. [19914] authorities to prioritise matters in their own areas, as they should do as democratically elected bodies. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker): The majority of transport resource Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The A160 funding will now be paid through formula grant. It is scheme has enjoyed the support of local government in for local authorities to decide how that funding is spent north Lincolnshire, but it has now been delayed until according to their priorities. As the Secretary of State 2015. Will the Minister meet me and a cross-party mentioned a few moments ago, I am also establishing a delegation of local MPs to discuss this important scheme local sustainable transport fund to help local authorities in more detail? support economic growth and reduce carbon emissions. Norman Baker: It is my practice always to accede to Kerry McCarthy: I thank the Minister for that answer. requests for meetings from Members of Parliament, so The Government’s growth strategy is based on wildly I will ask my office to fix that up. over-optimistic predictions for private sector job creation. How does the Minister think a 28% cut in local government Bus Service Operators Grant transport funding, the end to ring-fencing across local government funding in general and putting on ice the 4. Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab): What his policy bus rapid transit scheme will help a city like Bristol, is on the future of the bus service operators grant; and if which is plagued by congestion and a lack of transport he will make a statement. [19915] infrastructure? 13. Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): What Norman Baker: I hardly know where to start with assessment he has made of the likely effects on socially that question. The fact is that 300,000 jobs have been excluded groups of the proposed reduction in bus created in the private sector in the last three months. It service operators grant. [19924] does not help the economy if Members talk it down as the hon. Lady does. It is also not true that the bus rapid The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport transit system in Bristol has been put on ice. The section (Norman Baker): From 2012-13, the rate at which bus from Ashton Vale to Temple Meads in Bristol city service operators grant is paid will be reduced by 20%. centre is in the development pool and the south Bristol Our assessment is that this level of reduction will, link phases 1 and 2 are in the pre-qualification pool. I overall, have a low impact on socially excluded groups. I hope very much that Bristol city council will work on spoke to the Confederation of Passenger Transport those schemes in conjunction with my Department. UK, which represents the bus industry, following the Chancellor’s announcement on 20 October. It was hopeful Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): Given this week’s that, in general, this reduction could be absorbed without disappointing news for south Devon of the Kingskerswell fares having to rise. bypass being put into the pool rather than being approved after a 50-year campaign for it, might the local authority Mr Hepburn: That is absolute nonsense. The pensioners be able to reduce the cost of it by taking advantage of and the poor people of this country did not create the tax increment financing and regional growth funding? banking crisis, so why are the Government making Will local councils be able to use them to help meet the them pay with cuts such as this, which will inevitably costs of such important road schemes? mean rises in fares and reductions in services?

Norman Baker: I know that my hon. Friend is very Norman Baker: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, keen on this scheme, and that he and other local Members I do not think that he heard the answer I gave, which have campaigned strongly in favour of it. We are certainly was that I have spoken to the Confederation of Passenger open to innovative ideas to find alternative funding, Transport UK, which represents the bus industry, and it whether through the regional growth fund or the was hopeful that the reduction in the bus service operators incremental system to which he referred, and I look grant was marginal and could be absorbed without forward to examining those options with his local county fares having to rise. I also draw to his attention the fact council. that the Government have protected the concessionary fares arrangements. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): In recent years a combination of local schemes and Alex Cunningham: My constituent, David Gordon, national action has resulted in a very significant reduction has told me that he values his bus service, which has in the number of people killed or seriously injured improved considerably in recent years, very highly, but 449 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 450 he is worried about its future. Many others depend on The Minister of State, Department for Transport the buses to get to work or to search for work across (Mrs Theresa Villiers): The Government recognise that Teesside and beyond. Can the Minister reassure Mr Gordon redoubling the railway between Swindon and Kemble that bus services really will be protected and that those could generate important passenger benefits and improve seeking work and other excluded groups will be able to resilience by providing a diversionary route for the follow the advice of the Secretary of State for Work and Great Western main line to Wales. Unfortunately, the Pensions and get on a bus in their area to look for work? need to address the deficit means that we are not able to commit Government funding to this project at present, Norman Baker: The hon. Gentleman will know that but it remains our aspiration to take it forward in the the Tees Valley bus network’s improvement scheme is future. going ahead. The Government have confirmed that only recently, so I hope he will welcome that particular Mr Robertson: I thank the Minister for that response, suggestion. It is our intention to get more people on to but my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds buses, and we are working with local authorities and the (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) and I have been campaigning bus industry to achieve that—for example, by the roll-out on this issue and on the issue of improving the A417/419 of smart ticketing. So, yes, his constituents will be able road. The absence of either of those schemes impedes to get on a bus; in fact, there will be even more buses travel between Gloucestershire and London, and that is than previously. detrimental to Gloucestershire’s economy. Will she revisit both those schemes as soon as possible? Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): How does the Minister propose that the local sustainable Mrs Villiers: I am very much aware of the campaign transport fund will fill the boots of resource grants, that my hon. Friend has run, alongside my hon. Friend with the funding reduced now, especially in counties the Member for The Cotswolds and other local MPs, such as Leicestershire? such as the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). I have met a number of MPs to discuss this Norman Baker: The local sustainable transport fund project and we recognise that it is a good scheme. is a fund of £560 million during the rest of this Parliament. Important work is being done through the Grip 4 study, By anybody’s standards, that is an enormous sum to which is due to conclude shortly. We hope that we will spend on prioritising local transport, cycling, walking, be able to fund this scheme, but at the moment the bus services—if that is what local authorities want to deficit—the significant crisis in the public finances—that do—bus lanes and other such traffic management matters. we have inherited means that we cannot take forward all I would have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would the good schemes that are on the table. There is no welcome that commitment by the Government; it is an doubt, however, that this scheme will be a serious enormous sum for those particular objectives. contender when we assess these schemes again in relation to the next railway control period. Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): I thank the Department for responding so quickly to my named High Speed 2 Project day questions, although I do not consider “I will answer this question shortly” to be much of a reply. On the bus 7. Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): If his Department service operators grant, the Minister has said: will fund (a) tunnelling and culverting work and (b) “The benefits of that grant are clear: it ensures that the bus other mitigation work arising from the construction of network remains as broad as possible, while keeping fares lower any future rail line as part of the High Speed 2 project. and bringing more people on to public transport, with the obvious [19918] benefits of reducing congestion…in our towns and cities.”—[Official Report, 29 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 842.] The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Given his swingeing 20% cut to the grant, why will he Hammond): The coalition Government take very seriously not now accept that fares are likely to go up, passenger the potential impact of a high-speed rail line on line-side numbers will decrease and congestion will worsen? communities and property owners. HS2 Ltd’s current preferred route utilises a range of mitigation techniques, Norman Baker: First, the stories in the press throughout including tunnelling and culverting where appropriate, recent months have been suggesting that the bus service practical and economically justifiable. operators grant will be abolished, but they have clearly been completely off tack. Indeed, the cut to the grant Tony Baldry: On page 174 of the HS2 proposals, the has been less than the average for the Department, in report states: recognition of the importance of bus services to local “It is difficult to analyse exactly where the benefits of HS2 people. I come back to the point made by the Confederation would accrue.” of Passenger Transport UK, which, after all, represents the bus industry and so, with due respect, perhaps HS2 is a project that will clearly be expensive in construction knows more about buses than the hon. Gentleman costs, mitigation costs and the costs of compensation. might do. It has said that, in general, the reduction can Will my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that next be absorbed without fares having to rise; that is the view year’s consultation will include a consultation on the of the industry. principle of HS2 and on whether the same amount or even less money spent on the existing rail infrastructure Swindon to Kemble Rail Line could produce similar or even better results?

6. Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): What Mr Hammond: I can assure my hon. Friend that the plans he has for the future of the Swindon to Kemble option of spending money on enhancing existing rail rail line; and if he will make a statement. [19917] infrastructure to provide the capacity and the additional 451 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 452 connectivity that a high-speed railway will provide has process for all the minor schemes in the country will be been examined in detail and has been found not to be a undertaken over the next few weeks by the Highways practical option. The consultation next year starts from Agency and an announcement will be made on whether the premise that the Government believe that a high-speed the public inquiry for this improvement scheme will rail network will be in the United Kingdom’s interest, proceed. but it will consult on issues to do with the design of that network, the route and the details of the proposals for Highway Infrastructure (Funding) the London to Birmingham link. 9. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): The Secretary of What recent representations he has received on his State will be aware of the potentially very important Department’s proposed funding for highway infrastructure; role for Stratford International as a stop for through and if he will make a statement. [19920] services from High Speed 1 to High Speed 2. Given the prospect of competitive services on the channel tunnel The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip rail link and developments in east London, as well as Hammond): We have received a number of representations the success of the O2 dome and so on, does he agree from hon. Members and members of the public regarding that there is a growing economic imperative for international investment in major road schemes since the spending trains to stop at Stratford? review commenced in June. In terms of specific representations, we have received 25 from hon. Members Mr Hammond: As the right hon. Gentleman knows, and 73 from members of the public. In addition, I have Eurostar services are operated by a commercial company held meetings with a number of key stakeholders during that makes decisions on the basis of its commercial best which the spending review was discussed. interest. I think the answer that he should be looking for is more competition and more operators on the line. Miss McIntosh: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. I am very pleased to hear that Deutsche Bahn intends Will he take a further representation from me here and to start operating services through the tunnel to London. now to review the cancellation of the A1 scheme from The more operators there are, the more likely they are Leeming to Barton? It goes to the heart of the economy to seek additional niche markets and to provide additional in the north of England, supporting my constituency station stops. and those of my right hon. and hon. Friends, and it is key to the economic growth of north Yorkshire. Will he Road Safety (Nottinghamshire) reconsider the cancellation of that scheme?

8. John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): What recent Mr Hammond: As I said when I made my statement representations he has received on road safety at Elkesley, on Tuesday, we have sought to take some hard decisions, Nottinghamshire. [19919] and some of the schemes that were being taken forward by the Highways Agency had no realistic prospect of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport being funded in this spending review period or the next (Norman Baker): The Highways Agency has recently one. In those circumstances, I have taken the view that it received a number of representations on safety on the would be wrong to continue to spend money on A1 at Elkesley in Nottinghamshire. These have been development of a scheme which is unlikely to be built in made by the local authority, Elkesley parish council and the foreseeable future, and therefore the scheme had to members of the public. In particular, these concerns be cancelled. I am sorry to have to disappoint my hon. were raised by local residents and parish councillors to Friend. the Highways Agency at Elkesley memorial hall in September. Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I am grateful to the Secretary of State and the Chancellor for their support John Mann: They have been raised for the last 30 years. for the Mersey gateway. However, construction can There was an agreement going ahead before the election, start only if funding is in place and we know when that from the previous Government, for the Elkesley bridge, will be released. May I ask the right hon. Gentleman which is a place where many people have died tragically the same question that I asked him on Tuesday? Subject at the most dangerous crossover on the A1. There was a to agreement on funding in January, as per his report, major collision just this summer. Is this vital scheme, can he tell us if construction will begin before 2015? In recognised as a priority by the Department for Transport, other words, will the money be released to allow going to go ahead in this Parliament—yes or no? construction to begin before 2015?

Norman Baker: It is a little bit unfortunate to blame Mr Hammond: I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the us for not having taken it forward in six months when money will be released for construction to begin before the hon. Gentleman’s party had 13 years to take the 2015. Of course, this is a local authority-led project, so road forward. I do not underestimate the importance of the local authority will ultimately determine how quickly safety. The statistics that I have been given, in fact, the project can proceed, but both the capital allocation suggest that there have been no fatal, one serious and sum that we have made available and the PFI credits nine slight personal injuries between January 2007 and will be released for use before 2015. December 2009. If there is further information, I shall certainly consider that. John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): As part of the programme to reduce the budget I know that many Members in the Chamber and drivers deficit, we are clearly looking at how we spend our across the country are disappointed with the announcements money on minor schemes. The initial prioritisation that the Secretary of State made on Tuesday, but surely 453 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 454 sending his Minister with responsibility for roads to motorway at that point. I and my constituents have Russia this week was a little steep. Is it not the case that objected to that from the start. The additional lane will for many of the yet unconfirmed schemes, local authorities blight the lives of people who live near the motorway. are being asked to shoulder more of the burden at a Given that they cannot push ahead with the good time when they are facing a 28% cut in their funding? schemes that Members have put forward this morning, I Does not the right hon. Gentleman feel a little like a car urge Ministers to cancel that stupid white elephant of a dealer who says to his customer, “You can drive away scheme, think again and use the scarce public resources with any vehicle you choose,” before slashing the tyres where they are better utilised. of every single car in the showroom? Mrs Villiers: I refer the hon. Lady to the statement Mr Hammond: I suppose the simple answer is no. The that the Secretary of State made earlier this week on the hon. Gentleman might be interested that the Minister difficult decisions that we have made to prioritise investment with responsibility for roads has gone to St Petersburg in the most significant traffic bottlenecks on our road to join in an international conference on road safety. network. However, she will be well aware that before all With reference to the local authority schemes in the those projects proceed to completion, they must pass development pool that I announced on Tuesday, what through the appropriate planning appraisal programme, we have said is that local authorities need to look at and full consideration will be given to the local community’s ways of improving the benefit-to-cost ratios of the views as part of that important process. projects that they are promoting. In some cases, that will involve getting in third-party contributions, particularly Mr Speaker: I call Matthew Offord. developer contributions. Some authorities may wish to increase their own contributions. All authorities should Mr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): Question 17, be able to reduce cost. Mr Speaker. M1-M6 Junction Mr Speaker: No, no. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman. I thought that he was seeking to come in on Question 11, 11. David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): What which is where we were. I am afraid that we cannot go proposals for improvements to the M1-M6 junction he to Question 17. is considering; and if he will make a statement. [19922]

The Minister of State, Department for Transport Disabled People (Transport Access) (Mrs Theresa Villiers): I refer my hon. Friend to the oral statement made by the Secretary of State for Transport 14. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): to the House on 26 October, and the supporting What recent assessment he has made of the likely effects documentation. The preferred option for improving the of the outcome of the spending review on projects to junction is the proposal announced in February 2009 to improve the accessibility of the transport network to provide free-flowing traffic links between the A14, the disabled people. [19925] M1 and the M6. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport David Tredinnick: Does my hon. Friend agree that (Norman Baker): As part of fulfilling the Government’s that is one of the most dangerous junctions and one of commitment to promoting equality, my Department the most important junctions on the motorway network? has undertaken a robust analysis of its spending proposals When does she expect the works there to be completed, and an assessment of the likely effects on the accessibility and what other projects do the Government have to of the transport network. This work included considering improve the M1 and M6 motorways? the equalities impacts of proposals on projects that would improve the accessibility of the transport network Mrs Villiers: I agree that that is a very important to disabled people. junction on our strategic road network. That is one of the reasons why we have prioritised funding for the Luciana Berger: What assurances can the Minister project at a time of intense pressure on the public offer that the reductions in the transport expenditure finances because of the deficit that we inherited. I also budget outlined in the comprehensive spending review agree that road safety is an important issue in this case. the other week will not impact on accessibility for The Highways Agency is working hard to manage and disabled passengers? mitigate the road safety impact of the current junction, but we believe that the scheme will provide additional long-term road safety benefits. The scheme is not likely Norman Baker: First, the Government have prioritised to be able to be progressed before 2015, but we are transport expenditure in recognition of the fact that it is working on a revised timetable, with a view to construction very important in helping to grow the economy and in beginning some time after that period. cutting carbon emissions. Secondly, within that process, there are continuing Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): programmes such as the access for all programme at Another important junction that has congestion problems railway stations, and we are considering how we deal and very poor design is junction 13 on the M60 at my with EU legislation and with other disability issues, Worsley constituency, but instead of doing something which are a key part of my portfolio. I can assure the about junction design and improving the safety and hon. Lady that the issue will not be lost. Indeed, she other aspects there, Ministers have pushed forward with may want to know that next week I am meeting a a white elephant of a scheme to add another lane to the number of groups, such as the Royal National Institute 455 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 456 of Blind People, Scope, the Royal National Institute for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Deaf People and so on to ensure that I am fully appraised (Norman Baker): I am afraid that the hon. Lady’s of their views on the issue. question contains a number of hypothetical assumptions that are not borne out by reality. It is not my hope, but Topical Questions the hope and the view expressed to me by the Confederation of Passenger Transport, which represents the main five bus operators, so I do not think that the terrible scenario T1. [19932] Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): she paints will come to fruition. People might also want If he will make a statement on his departmental to use the Tyne and Wear metro, in which the Government responsibilities. are investing £500 million over the next 11 years.

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): Although we Hammond): Since I last answered Transport questions, I are expecting rail fares to rise only by 10% over four have agreed the Department’s settlement with the Treasury. years in real terms, will Ministers look into changing The settlement that we have achieved shows the the basis for the cap calculation from the retail prices Government’s commitment to investment in infrastructure index to the consumer prices index—because, after all, and in transport infrastructure, in particular. The what is fair for pensioners ought to be fair enough for announcements that have been made, and that will be profit-making rail companies? made over the next few weeks, will support economic growth and job creation. The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers): The decision on rail fares has Steve Rotheram: I am sure that the Minister is aware been difficult, but we have had to make it as part of the of the historical importance of the River Mersey as the tough decisions needed to tackle the deficit. Of course lifeblood of the city of Liverpool, the wider sub-region we will keep under review the way that the system and beyond. Therefore, following the Prime Minister’s works, and I am happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to call for sustainable economic growth, will the Minister discuss the issue. meet Merseyside MPs and the leader of the city council to re-examine the economic evidence for a turnaround T3. [19935] Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): Constituents facility on the banks of our world famous, UNESCO- of mine travel on the Ebbw Valley rail line from Cardiff recognised and iconic waterfront? to Islwyn, but they cannot travel to Newport because there are major engineering works at the Gaer junction. Mr Hammond: I think that the hon. Gentleman is Has the Minister had any discussions with the First talking about a cruise liner terminal and turnaround Minister about providing money for those engineering facility. Cruise liner ports are operated primarily by works so that my constituents can travel to work from private sector companies. Public money has been invested Islwyn to Newport? in the facility on the Mersey, and that public money was invested on the explicit understanding that it would not Mrs Villiers: I have not discussed that specific issue be used for turnaround. If it were, issues of state aid with the Welsh Assembly Government, but I am happy and unfair advantage would be raised. I am happy to to do so. discuss the matter with the hon. Gentleman, but I hope that he understands that there are European Union Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): East competition and legal issues around the matter. Dunbartonshire cycle co-operative does excellent work and has enthused hundreds of people into taking up cycling through a local cycle festival, maps, cycle clubs T5. [19937] Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I and even a Guinness world record attempt at the number recently met the Consular Corps of London, which of cycle bells that can be rung simultaneously. This made it clear to me, in no uncertain terms, that there is shows what can be done with a group of committed a problem at our ports and airports with human volunteers and a bit of grant funding, but how can we trafficking, with people being admitted to this country ensure that cycling promotion is not just left to volunteer on clearly forged passports. I wonder what the champions but is done more systematically wherever Secretary of State can say about that, and whether he people live in the country? can talk to the Home Office about it. Norman Baker: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. As that question. She will know that we value cycling; it he will know, inward border controls are primarily a was set out in the coalition agreement that it is a matter for the UK Border Agency, and I shall make priority for us in the Transport Department. It has a sure that his comments are drawn to the attention of my major role to play in tackling the reduction of carbon right hon. and hon. Friends in that Department. emissions in the short term through behavioural change. We have guaranteed that Bikeability will carry on and, T2. [19933] Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) as I said earlier, there is a pot of money—£560 million—in (Lab): Bus services are a vital part of Newcastle’s economic the local sustainable transport fund, much of which I infrastructure, and, despite the huge cuts to bus subsidies am sure will be directed towards activities related to and to local government grants, the Minister is “hopeful” cycling. that bus fares will not rise and that bus services will not be cut. Unfortunately, the people of Newcastle cannot T4. [19936] Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): get to work on the Minister’s hopes. If fares do rise or if The Chancellor announced with a fanfare in the services are cut, what will the Minister do? comprehensive spending review the modernisation and 457 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 458 electrification of a number of lines up and down the Mr Hammond: I hear what the hon. Lady says. I country. Can the Secretary of State tell us when the repeat what I said on Tuesday: Nottingham has got a electrification work on the Preston to Blackpool line good deal out of the announcements that have been will commence and when it will be completed? made over the past week or so. The A453 scheme remains in the development pool, which means that we Mr Hammond: I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a will take it forward with further work. An announcement precise date now, but I am happy to talk to Network will be made during the course of 2011 on which of Rail about where that particular project lies in its current those schemes will be funded. programme and get back to him. Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): I welcome the Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The Wharfedale and reply of the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the Airedale lines are two of the most congested railway hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) to my hon. lines in the country, and additional carriages are essential Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) to alleviate that congestion. I am well aware that funds in connection with the delay to the A160 upgrade on the are limited, but will the Secretary of State prioritise access road into Immingham docks. The Under-Secretary additional carriages on those two lines, as that is essential will be aware that the delay puts increasing pressure on for economic activity in the area, which I know is the the town of Immingham, and that the A18/A180 link Government’s priority? road was given the amber light on Tuesday. Will he agree to meet me and the local authority to discuss how Mr Hammond: I said when I made my statement on we can bring the work forward? Tuesday that a further announcement would shortly be made about rail investment. That announcement will Norman Baker: I accept the hon. Gentleman’s legitimate include the provision of additional rail cars to relieve point about that connection, and I am happy to meet overcrowding. I am afraid that my hon. Friend will have him—perhaps it might be helpful if that happened at to wait for a few more days until that statement is made. the same time as the other meeting that I agreed to earlier. Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): On the rail network and fare increases, is the Minister aware that the proposed Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): In a letter to me, formula increase outlined in the CSR—that is, RPI plus the Under-Secretary confirmed the good news about three—will mean a cumulative increase of approximately the Switch island to Thornton relief road, but he used 33.5% by 2015? That means, on the Newcastle to London the phrase “increased local contributions”. Can the line, an increase up to £500 for first class and £350 for Secretary of State tell me now what he expects those second class— contributions to be?

Mr Speaker: Order. May I remind Members, both Mr Hammond: I believe that the letter the hon. Back Benchers and Front Benchers, because I think Gentleman refers to talks about the need for discussion they have forgotten, that topical questions and answers to be held with local authorities on the cost of schemes are supposed to be shorter? I think the Minister has got and local contributions. As I said on Tuesday, when we the thrust of the question, although the hon. Gentleman are spending taxpayers’ money, we have an absolute is certainly not the only offender, by any means. duty to ensure that we have explored every opportunity to minimise the taxpayer contribution and the cost. Mr Hammond: I can do no better than refer the hon. That is what we will do, but he has approval for the Gentleman to my earlier exchange with the Opposition scheme and it will go ahead. We will engage with his Front-Bench spokesman. local authority to ensure that it is as efficient as possible.

Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): May I ask the Minister for special consideration for communities in the south-east that had RPI plus three WOMEN AND EQUALITIES imposed on them by the previous Labour Government in 2006? The Minister for Women and Equalities was asked— Mrs Villiers: I am well aware of the concerns of users Supporting People Programmes of the Southeastern franchise who have been asked to pay RPI plus three over the past few years. That was 1. Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab): What recent linked to investment in rolling stock, and the rest of the representations she has received on the likely effect on country will move on to RPI plus three to even out the women victims of domestic violence of reductions in perceived inequality from the year after next. funding to Supporting People programmes. [19942]

Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): On The Secretary of State for the Home Department and Tuesday, the Secretary of State seemed to think me Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): most ungrateful because I did not thank him for the We have received no such representations. However, we tram extensions. I am sorry to disappoint him, but the have been meeting a number of organisations that people of Nottingham South sent me here to do things, provide support to women who are victims of domestic not just to say thanks. Does he accept that the tram on violence, and most recently my hon. Friend the Minister its own will not solve the problems, particularly for for Equalities met the chief executive of Refuge to freight traffic, caused by congestion on the A453? It discuss exactly that issue. I am pleased to be able to tell really is vital that the widening scheme goes ahead. the right hon. Lady that following widespread consultation 459 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 460 with the voluntary sector, the Government have committed Mrs May: I welcome the right hon. Lady to her to providing £6.5 billion to the Supporting People position. She held the same position before the leadership programme over the next four years. elections within the Labour party, but I welcome her again now she has been reappointed. I am sure that we Margaret Hodge: That is, of course, a real-terms cut will have a number of interesting exchanges on this in the supported housing programme. Women’s refuges issue and I hope that we will work co-operatively on also get their money through housing benefit and, at many areas of women’s issues and equality, as is right present, they are allowed to charge rates above the local and appropriate. housing cap, and therefore access more benefit than the The right hon. Lady asks about ring-fencing and the cap would allow. Will that exemption continue, given Supporting People funding, but the decision to remove the decisions that have been taken to impose that housing that ring-fencing was first taken by the Labour Government cap across all areas of the country? because it has not been ring-fenced since 2009. On the question that the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Mrs May: I thank the right hon. Lady for her concern Hodge) asked, a White Paper will be produced before in relation to support for refuges. We will consult on the welfare reform Bill. It will be possible for people to welfare reform proposals more widely, and that issue make representations on specific issues such as the can certainly be considered. In relation to the support impact of housing benefit changes on refuges and for that refuges provide for victims of domestic violence, I those representations to be taken into account. am pleased to tell her that this Government have been able to extend until the end of this financial year the Mr Speaker: The exchanges so far have been rather pilot period of the sojourner project dealing with victims protracted. We need to do a bit better. who have no recourse to public funds. That is another matter on which we are considering longer-term solutions Human Trafficking to ensure that refuges can provide support for the women who need their services. 2. Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): What discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): the co-ordination of member states’ action against Will the Minister ensure that all domestic violence human trafficking of women. [19943] centres have access under one roof to welfare, housing and the criminal justice system so that the victim can access them at one single point as is the case at the The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): Policy Croydon family justice centre? responsibility for human trafficking rests with my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration. There have been no ministerial discussions with other EU member states Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning on human trafficking. The UK plays an active role in the very good model at the family justice centre in combating this horrendous crime and will co-ordinate Croydon, which was based on an experience that was activities with our European partners where it is in the developed in New York. I was pleased to visit a centre in UK’s interests to do so. New York a couple of months ago and see the benefits there. The Croydon model is a very good one, but it will not necessarily fit all areas. In more rural communities, Alison McGovern: Nothing undermines the dignity of for example, a single point might not be the answer. women more than human trafficking and this modern-day Some very good work has been done by Cherwell slavery. Article 10 of the EU directive on trafficking district council on how to ensure that there is inter-agency requires all member states to provide necessary medical working in rural areas where a single physical centre is treatment to trafficking survivors. When will Britain set not always the answer. an example and sign the EU directive? Lynne Featherstone: We have decided not to opt in to Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) the European directive at the moment, but we are (Lab): May I press the Minister on her answer to my keeping a watching brief. When it is implemented, we right hon. Friend the Member for Barking (Margaret might well decide to do so, but we are already doing Hodge), as there is considerable concern about this most of the things required by the directive to a good issue? The Supporting People budget is being cut by standard and we do not want to be inhibited by introducing 11% and the ring-fencing is being removed so that laws in this country. Several things that we do already refuges and supported housing will have to take their would need transposing into legislation, but we do not chances among competing areas while local council need to make legislation to prove to the Commissioners budgets are being cut by more than 25%. The Minister what we are doing already. has not explained what will happen to housing benefit support for those women who are going into refuges and who are badly in need of support and protection. I Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): May I urge do not think her answer was sufficient, and I ask her to the Minister not to opt in to the EU directive? I know consider this further and provide the House with some that human trafficking is one of the Prime Minister’s reassurance. She will know that there is great concern priorities, but before we opt in we must consider whether that the spending review is already hitting women twice we can do things better; I urge caution in this matter. as hard as men. Will she stand up for women who may be affected by domestic violence and will she guarantee Lynne Featherstone: I thank my hon. Friend for his that there will be no reduction in help and support for question. That is exactly the position that we have women who badly need it? taken. 461 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 462

Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The question is reoffend, so reducing the number of women in prison? about co-ordination. By which mechanism can the origin, The previous Labour Government said lots of warm transition and destination countries get together to deal words about the report, but did nothing. What will this with the problem of human trafficking? Government do?

Lynne Featherstone: We do that already without Lynne Featherstone: The Government broadly support legislation. We have been very involved in Europe in all the Corston recommendations and have looked very terms of trafficking. Human trafficking is a key area closely at the recommendation to create another special under the Stockholm programme, which sets out the sort of accommodation. However, we are committed to EU justice and home affairs priorities. We also helped women not going to prison at all. We are looking at to shape the draft EU trafficking directive and helped approved accommodation in the community where women with the first Schengen evaluation on human trafficking. can have a good balance between surveillance and support. We are working closely with European colleagues. Quite The ambition is not to need the centres recommended frankly, it is better that we work in the countries of in the Corston report, but keeping women out of prison origin, as the right hon. Gentleman suggests, so that we is paramount. stop trafficking at source by working with the Serious Organised Crime Agency, after which we should work at our borders and then in-country. Women and Work Sector Skills Pathway Initiative

Custodial Sentences (Women) 4. Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Business, 3. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): What Innovation and Skills on the effectiveness of the women recent discussions she has had with the Secretary of and work sector skills pathway initiative. [19946] State for Justice on the number of women given custodial sentences. [19945] The Secretary of State for the Home Department and Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): The That initiative is part of a broad range of action to Government are committed to diverting women who do improve equality in the workplace, an issue on which not pose a risk to the public from custody, and to my hon. Friend the Minister for Equalities and I have tackling women’s offending. I met the Under-Secretary had a number of discussions with colleagues in the of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The Reigate (Mr Blunt), who has responsibility for prisons forthcoming skills strategy will set out our approach to and probation, on 28 July to discuss the community improving skills for everyone. options available to the judiciary, and we agreed to work together on the issue. We noted that the women’s Karen Lumley: Will the Minister tell the House what prison population has now reached a plateau. We are the Government are doing to help women to get jobs in jointly supporting a holistic approach to diverting women sectors in which they are currently under-represented? from custody.

David Mowat: The Minister will be aware of the Mrs May: We are taking a number of steps to ensure Corston report, which said that women who pose no that we encourage women in areas in which they are not threat to the public should not go to prison, owing currently as highly represented, such as funding the UK principally to the attendant issues for children and the Resource Centre for women in science, engineering and next generation, yet in the past decade, the number of technology. The Government are, of course, committed women going to prison has increased by 100%, which is to an additional 75,000 apprenticeship places by the four times faster than the number of men going to end of the spending review period, and I am sure that prison. That cannot be right. What will we do to reverse we will do all we can to ensure that women take places that legacy? in areas where they are not properly represented at the moment. Lynne Featherstone: The coalition is committed to diverting women away from crime and tackling women’s Gender Pay Gap offending. We are taking a number of measures on alternatives to custody. There is a £10 million fund for women-only projects that is run by the voluntary sector 5. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): and that supports community services. The bail What recent estimate the Government Equalities Office accommodation support scheme means that we can has made of the gender pay gap. [19947] support and mentor women on remand outside so that they do not have to go into the prison system. It is The Secretary of State for the Home Department and important that we move forward on this issue, because Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): as my hon. Friend says, the knock-on consequences of In 2009, the gap between the median hourly earnings of short sentences for women are totally unacceptable and men and women working full time was 12.2%. Including unproductive. men and women working part time raises this figure to 22%. Those estimates are updated on an annual basis Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): May I urge my hon. and the Office for National Statistics will provide estimates Friend a little further on the Corston report, which also for 2010 in November. The Government are committed recommends that we put women in small local centres to promoting equal pay and taking a range of measures to tackle the multiple problems that cause them to to end discrimination in the workplace. 463 Oral Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Oral Answers 464

Harriett Baldwin: I recently enjoyed watching the film 7. Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): When she “Made in Dagenham” and it struck me that it is now plans to begin her proposed consultation on a new 40 years since the Equal Pay Act was enacted. Will the system for flexible parental leave. [19949] Secretary of State update us on what she plans to do to narrow the pay gap between men and women? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work Mrs May: I had the opportunity of meeting four of and Pensions (Maria Miller): The Government are the women who were campaigners in Dagenham, and committed to encouraging shared parenting and making they are as feisty today as they were 40 years ago. We the workplace more family friendly. We will launch a need to address several issues when considering the consultation in due course on the design of a new gender pay gap. It is appalling that we still have such a system of flexible shared parental leave. gap 40 years later, but it is not simply about a legislative approach. Extending the right to request flexible working Mr Ruffley: There is a Brussels-inspired proposal to to all, introducing flexible parental leave and encouraging hike maternity pay to full pay for the first 20 weeks at a a wider range of choices in career options, especially for cost of £2.5 billion, according to the British Chambers girls and young women, will all play their part in ending of Commerce, which would be unaffordable for the the gender pay gap. British taxpayer and for small and medium-sized businesses. Given that we already have one of the best maternity Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): I represent rights regimes in Europe, will the Secretary of State tell an area with the widest gender pay gap, where women Brussels where to get off and begin to repatriate employment earn only two thirds as much as men. I am especially and social legislation back to this place? concerned about the effects of the comprehensive spending review, including the number of women who will be made unemployed by the decisions taken and the cuts Maria Miller: I share my hon. Friend’s disappointment to housing benefit. What will the Government do about at the outcome of the first reading vote in the European the gender income gap, not just the gender pay gap? Parliament. The measures that have been put forward are highly regressive and we do not support them. They Mrs May: The hon. Member raises the issue of the would cost the UK at least £2.4 billion a year. comprehensive spending review. Of course, we have had to introduce these measures as a result of decisions taken by the last Labour Government, which she supported, Stephen Mosley: It is desirable for fathers to be able which have left this country in a parlous financial to play a much larger role in the lives of their young condition and meant that we have had to address this children. However, the Government also need to take significant deficit. As a Government, we have been into account and support very small businesses, which looking at equality impact assessments of the decisions may face pressures on their work force if key personnel in the spending review. It is interesting to note that have flexible time off. What discussions has the Minister when the Opposition spokeswoman on these matters had with the business community on the implementation was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the then Labour of flexible parental leave? Government did precisely zero equality impact assessments. They made no proper assessment of the equality impact Maria Miller: As my hon. Friend may be aware, one of their decisions. in seven working people now has a caring responsibility Flexible Parental Leave and the issue of balancing work and family life is of growing importance. The Government are committed 6. Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): When to a strong culture of regulatory restraint so, in looking she plans to begin her proposed consultation on a new at the introduction of shared parental leave, we will system for flexible parental leave. [19948] consult fully with businesses, small, medium and large. 465 28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 466

Business of the House I turn to another matter on which there is considerable concern on both sides of the House. May we have a debate on the confusion surrounding the proposed changes 11.34 am to housing benefit? Yesterday, the Prime Minister could Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): Will the Leader not explain why it is fair that someone who has been of the House give us the business for next week? looking for a job for 12 months, but has not been able to find one, despite their best efforts, will have their housing benefit cut by 10%. Nor could he offer any advice to The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George families who will be affected by this change and by the Young): The business for the week commencing 1 November housing benefit cap. Instead, he simply said that the will be as follows: Government are not for turning. MONDAY 1NOVEMBER—Remaining stages of the Meanwhile, also yesterday, the Work and Pensions Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill Secretary was said to be listening to MPs’ concerns. (Day 1). In addition, my right hon. Friend the Prime Well, there are plenty of concerns on the Government Minister plans to make a statement on the European Benches and in City Hall. The hon. Member for Council. Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) has TUESDAY 2NOVEMBER—Remaining stages of the called the plan for a cap harsh. The hon. Member for Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) said that (Day 2). the proposals have ignored some of the huge logistical WEDNESDAY 3NOVEMBER—General debate on the report problems, and the Mayor of London has described of the Bloody Sunday inquiry. them as draconian. Then, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government—the third of THURSDAY 4NOVEMBER—General debate on the strategic defence and security review. yesterday’s men, and the person who is actually responsible for housing—told listeners of the “World at One” that The provisional business for the week commencing they did not need to worry because 8 November will include: “these new reforms don’t come in until 2013”. MONDAY 8NOVEMBER—Remaining stages of the Finance In fact, the housing benefit cap will come into operation (No.2) Bill. next April. TUESDAY 9NOVEMBER—Opposition Day [5th Allotted We have a Prime Minister who cannot justify the Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. policy, a Communities and Local Government Secretary The subject is to be announced. who does not understand the policy, and a Work and WEDNESDAY 10 NOVEMBER—Consideration in Committee Pensions Secretary signalling that he might change the and remaining stages of the Equitable Life (Payments) policy. In truth, the word “shambles” does not do Bill, followed by motion to approve a European document justice to this mess, but it does make a compelling case relating to economic policy co-ordination. for a debate, so may we have one? THURSDAY 11 NOVEMBER—General debate on policy As the Leader of the House has just announced, the on growth. The subject for this debate was nominated Backbench Business Committee has chosen a debate on by the Backbench Business Committee. economic growth for 11 November. Will he persuade FRIDAY 12 NOVEMBER—Private Members’ Bills. the Prime Minister to take part, so that he can try to explain how the loss of nearly 500,000 public sector Hilary Benn: I thank the Leader of the House for his jobs will help the economy to grow; how depriving statement. Further to last week’s exchange about the universities of most of their funding for undergraduate Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, teaching will enable the economy to compete; and how and his letter to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff the absence of any central Government support for the West (Kevin Brennan), the Government have published new local enterprise partnerships will help them to in draft a series of statutory instruments for Wales, make use of the regional growth fund? Is it any wonder Northern Ireland and Scotland. The one for Scotland is that Richard Lambert of the CBI said this week: 205 pages long, and runs to 97 clauses and nine schedules, “The Local Enterprise Partnerships have got off to a ropey but Members will have no opportunity to debate or start. So far, it has been a bit of a shambles”. decide on the statutory instruments before the Report All in all, it has been a shambolic week for the Government. stage of the Bill begins next Monday. Mercifully—and finally—there is one bright spot. The Government have just tabled 28 pages of Tomorrow, the House will for the second time extend a amendments for Monday, some of which refer to the very warm welcome to the UK YouthParliament, which orders we have not yet had the chance to discuss, so, for will be debating in this Chamber. We have offered an the third time, may I ask the Leader of the House to annual invitation up until the next general election, but explain to the House how this treatment of Members does the Leader of the House agree that the House should squares with what the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet now make this a permanent fixture in the parliamentary Office, the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), calendar, so that every year henceforth we can celebrate who is in charge of the Bill, said would happen? He gave the contribution that young parliamentarians make to us an assurance that the life of this country? “on matters to do with elections this House should get to pronounce before the Bill goes to the other place…we will seek to achieve Sir George Young: I am grateful to the right hon. that.”—[Official Report, 18 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 653.] Gentleman for his questions. On the first issue, the The Leader of the House has not achieved that, and the undertaking given by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary questions are: why and what will he do about it? Secretary has been honoured. On the territorial orders, 467 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 468 the statutory instruments updating the rules for elections at all to the Youth Parliament becoming an annual to the Scottish Parliament, the Northern Ireland Assembly event, but that will require the approval of the House of and the National Assembly for Wales were tabled on Commons. 25 October. The orders were necessary to update the rules for elections, and they will be debated in the Several hon. Members rose— forthcoming weeks. The amendments to which the right hon. Gentleman refers were tabled as we said they Mr Speaker: Order. Many right hon. and hon. Members would be, and they are required to deal with any are seeking to catch my eye. We have important business consequential changes needed to reflect the new orders to follow, including heavily subscribed business, so brevity in time for debate. Everything we have done on the from Back Benchers and Front Benchers alike is essential. Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill has been to ensure that the House of Commons has the Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): The Leader opportunity to debate the referendum rules, and that is of the House may be aware that two large businesses in what the Bill is about. We tabled the combination my constituency are closing or making people redundant. amendment a week before it was due to be debated in I wrote to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation Committee and we laid the territorial orders in time to and Skills some time ago, and he promised he would try ensure that relevant amendments to the combination to fit in a visit to my constituency. Could the Leader of provisions could be covered on Report. the House give me any advice on how I can impress On housing benefit, we are trying to do what the right upon the Secretary of State the urgency of such a visit? hon. Gentleman’s former Cabinet colleague, James Purnell. was also trying to do. This is what he said: Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s concern about the loss of jobs in her constituency. She “The next issue to consider is housing benefit…so that people will know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of on benefits do not end up getting subsidies for rents that those State for Business, Innovation and Skills will shortly who work could never afford.”—[Official Report, 10 December make a statement. If she stays in her place, she may have 2008; Vol. 485, c. 546.] an opportunity to put her question directly to him. That is the thrust of our reforms to housing benefit. People who receive housing benefits should have the Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): same choice on housing as people who are not in receipt On 20 October, the Prime Minister, responding to my of housing benefits. That is what is behind the reforms question, said that that we are proposing. “house building was lower in every year of the last Government On the specific issues that the right hon. Gentleman than it was under the previous Conservative Government.”—[Official raises, the housing benefit bill has almost doubled in Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 946.] 10 years, and is now some £20 billion. The caps to which That is simply not true. After checking with the Library, he refers save some £55 million in the first year. That I wrote to the Prime Minister on 21 October, providing needs to be put in perspective. Of the 700,000 families detailed statistical evidence to demonstrate the error, in London who receive housing benefit, only 2.5% will inviting him to put the record straight. The Leader of potentially be affected by the cap. the House will be aware that the ministerial code of conduct, the most recent version of which was issued in The right hon. Gentleman will have heard my right May this year by the Prime Minister, says that hon. Friend the Housing Minister refer on the “Today” “it is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and programme to £140 million of discretionary payments, truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent available to those in receipt of housing benefit, at the error at the earliest opportunity”. hands of local authorities who need help to cope with I regret to tell the House that the Prime Minister has the transition to a new regime. Against the background failed to correct the error to date and, indeed, despite a of the need to save public expenditure, the proposals we reminder, has not even responded to my letter. Will the have introduced—some of which do not come into Leader of the House draw the Prime Minister’s attention effect until 2013—are justified. to this matter and remind him of his obligation to abide The right hon. Gentleman asks for a debate on by the terms of his own code of conduct? housing benefit. There is a debate in Westminster Hall on the impact of the comprehensive spending review on Sir George Young: I will pass the right hon. Gentleman’s the Department for Work and Pensions. The Select comments to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. I Committee on Work and Pensions is holding an inquiry am sure he will get a response to his letter, but I have to into housing benefit, and Lord Freud will give evidence say that the last Government’s housing record was next Tuesday. I have announced an Opposition day the appalling. House building is at its lowest peacetime level week after next, and it is perfectly open to the right hon. since 1924; waiting lists for social housing have almost Gentleman to choose housing benefit as a subject in doubled; and the average number of affordable housing that debate. Indeed, it may come up in the main debate units built or purchased slumped by more than a third today. under Labour, compared with under the last Conservative Government. The Office for Budget Responsibility says that unemployment will fall next year and every year after Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I am grateful to that. Employment is forecast to increase by about 1.4 million the Leader of the House for advance notice of Monday’s over the next five years. ministerial statement on the European Council. Although I welcome the arrival of the members of the Youth such ministerial statements are welcome, they have a Parliament in this Chamber tomorrow, and you will disruptive effect on the agenda for the day’s business, so welcome them formally, Mr Speaker. I have no objection could we be given greater notice of such statements, 469 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 470

[Duncan Hames] the funding for BSF, so that people in constituencies all across the country, including Stoke-on-Trent, can have including in the “Future Business” section of the Order some certainty about the multi-million pound programme Paper? That would help to give Members a little bit for schools investment on which they are now negotiating? more time to prepare to participate in the debates. Sir George Young: The pupil premium is not being Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s funded out of the schools programme. It is being funded point. When we know statements are happening, we are from elsewhere in the Department’s budget and from giving advance notice of them more frequently than has savings in other parts of Whitehall. There is £15 billion been the case in the past. Inevitably, statements will do worth of investment going into new schools’ capital. On some injury to the remaining business of the day, but the specific issue of Stoke, I will ask the Secretary of wherever possible we have given advance notice of State for Education to write to the hon. Lady. ministerial statements to the House, as we have today. Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): My right hon. Friend Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): I might be aware of the recent announcement by the welcome the Leader of the House’s statement that he National Endowment for Science, Technology and the supports the annual sitting of the UK Youth Parliament Arts on establishing the big society finance fund, which in this Chamber as a permanent fixture, but will he have will stimulate new ways in which social enterprises can a look at ensuring that whatever subject the UK Youth raise capital to support their initiatives in local communities. Parliament decides at its annual sitting to prioritise for With local councils up and down the country now its campaigns finds some traction in this Parliament as facing cuts in much-needed and much-valued local services, well? I am thinking of the issue of votes at 16 last year, will my right hon. Friend consider holding a debate on which was never debated in this Chamber. Will the right how we can increase capital and funding for social hon. Gentleman look at finding time to debate in this enterprises? Chamber whatever the Youth Parliament chooses as its campaign priority tomorrow? Sir George Young: I agree with my hon. Friend on the Sir George Young: With the greatest respect to the importance of social enterprises having access to funding hon. Lady, the solution lies, as she knows, in her own in order to take forward their initiatives. He will know, hands, as she is the Chairman of the Backbench Business for example, of a new initiative on the prisoner discharge Committee, which can find time for such topical debates. programme, which I hope will yield results. I entirely I very much enjoyed attending her salon on Monday—an support his attempts to have a debate, either in Westminster interesting new procedure, opening up the House’s agenda Hall or through the Backbench Business Committee or to all hon. Members. I also welcome her presence in an Adjournment debate. The big society very much tomorrow, when she will conclude the debate and my encourages the sort of social enterprises to which he hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House will refers. represent the Government. I am sure that the event will be an astounding success. Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): Has the right hon. Gentleman seen early-day motion 910? Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): [That this House expresses deep concern about the Today, as on every other day, thousands of severely failure of Adactus Housing Association of Manchester to disabled people and their carers will suffer the unenviable reply to repeated correspondence, dating back to early choice of deciding whether to go out in the hope that July 2010, from the right hon. Member for Manchester, there will be sufficient toilet facilities to ensure that they Gorton with regard to a constituency case; and reminds can keep their dignity or to stay at home—a choice that Adactus that those seeking to defend social housing at they should not face. May we have a debate to discuss this present crucial time are handicapped if social housing how we can do more to ensure that those who want to associations fail in their duty of accountability.] go out can go out, however disabled they are? It refers to the failure, after four months, of the Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I Adactus housing association in Manchester to reply to am aware of the changing places programme, which has me about the concerns of a constituent of mine. Will he been successful in getting more toilet facilities for severely ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local disabled people built in town centres, including, recently, Government to clarify what remedy is available to tenants in Crewe. I suggest that my hon. Friend seek an of social housing, so that they can get the accountability Adjournment debate so that this campaign can receive to which they have a right? wider traction. Sir George Young: I apologise for any discourtesy to Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): On 7 July, the right hon. Gentleman on behalf of the housing the Secretary of State for Education told me that association. He is entitled to a reply on behalf of his “Stoke-on-Trent, as a local authority that has reached financial constituent, and I will raise this matter with the Secretary close, will see all the schools under Building Schools for the of State. I think I am right in saying that there is an Future rebuilt or refurbished.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; ombudsman who can deal with complaints from social Vol. 513, c. 490.] housing tenants. Given the points of order in the House last Monday, and the media speculation that Building Schools for the Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): Future might be affected by the pupil premium, will the May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on publishing Leader of the House arrange for an urgent debate on a very useful card showing the dates of the sitting days 471 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 472 of this Parliament, as well as the recess dates, for many Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): May we have an months ahead? I congratulate him on this tremendous urgent statement on the decision to increase the interest innovation. It gives me great satisfaction that this has rate on loans from the Public Works Loan Board by been introduced not by some manic young moderniser 1%? This will cost public bodies such as local authorities but by a true Conservative who was educated at Eton an extra £1.3 billion over the next four years and has the and Oxford. potential to do a huge amount of damage to financial planning, capital investment and jobs. May we have a Sir George Young rose— statement from a Treasury Minister on that specific matter? Mr Speaker: Order. That question was extremely amusing, but it suffered from the disadvantage of having Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s made no request whatever for a statement or a debate. concern, but we must also consider the other side of the There will therefore be no reply to it. balance sheet—the revenue that comes in. We are shortly to debate the comprehensive spending review. I do not Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): As we are know whether he was planning to intervene, but I approaching Halloween, may I please ask the Leader of imagine that it would be appropriate to raise that matter the House to send out a plea on behalf of women such in the debate and to press the Minister for an answer. as Sally Joseph, one of my constituents and a member of the Women’s Food and Farming Union, about the Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): In my early-day motion use of Chinese lanterns? These lanterns are marketed as 914, I note Lord Mandelson’s recent conversion to being eco-friendly and biodegradable, but they contain becoming a strong supporter of the big society. wire frames and bamboo, which can be dangerous to livestock if they land on farmland. Can we please [That this House welcomes Lord Mandelson’s recent urgently ask our constituents not to use them? conversion to being a supporter of the Big Society, widely reported in the national press; further welcomes his comments that the Government’s welfare and education reforms are Sir George Young rose— ‘moving in the right direction’; is glad that Lord Mandelson has wholly rejected his earlier position of April 2010, Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady should ask for a when he said that the Big Society was ‘neither practical debate or a statement. nor realistic’; congratulates him on his statement of October 2010 that ‘we will have to find more of our Sir George Young: I support the hon. Lady’s request solutions from within the communities that make our for a debate or a statement on Chinese lanterns, which I society’; and therefore calls on the Government to thank know from farmers in my own constituency can do real Lord Mandelson for his support, and to welcome him into damage to livestock. I also understand that alternative the Big Society tent.] components can be used in these lanterns and I will Does the Leader of the House not agree that it is now raise with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food more urgent than ever to have a debate on the big and Rural Affairs the question of whether they could be society so that we can welcome more Opposition Members promoted as an alternative to the ones that cause the to the big society big tent? damage. Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): From for that question, and I have early-day motion 914 here this Saturday, 30 October, to the following Saturday, in front of me. It is probably the only EDM with Lord 6 November, it will be British pub week. This will be a Mandelson in its title. We welcome converts to the big great opportunity to celebrate the British pub, and I society, and I welcome what my hon. Friend has been urge all hon. Members to join the all-party parliamentary doing in that regard. If he can persuade more former save the pub group and to visit a pub in their constituency. Members of the House to subscribe to the big society, I include you in that invitation, Mr. Speaker. From no one would be happier than me. memory, I think I still owe you a pint. May I ask the Leader of the House whether we can have a debate on the future of the pub, and a statement from the Government Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) on when they are going to establish a cross-departmental (Lab): May I press the Leader of the House again on strategy on the future of this important cultural and the urgent need for a debate on the Government’s plans social institution? for housing benefit? The Government simply do not appear to appreciate the misery, the poverty and the Sir George Young: I commend my hon. Friend for his homelessness that the cuts will cause, not only to those campaign for the British pub, which has been sustained who are seeking work but, because housing benefit is over many years. I remember attending a meeting, also an in-work benefit, to hard-working, low-income which I think he had convened, during the last Parliament, families and pensioners. at which there was an enormous number of Cabinet Ministers, demonstrating the importance of this subject. Sir George Young: Next Thursday, there will be a I am sure that Members need no encouragement to go debate in Westminster Hall on the impact of the to their local pub and celebrate British pub week in a comprehensive spending review on the Department for traditional way. I will certainly pass on to appropriate Work and Pensions. That would be an entirely appropriate colleagues his suggestion for a cross-departmental working forum for the hon. Lady to share her concerns about the party to ensure that this important British institution impact of the changes, and to get an adequate response can flourish. from the Minister who will reply to the debate. 473 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 474

Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): On Friday, I met Sir George Young: The hon. Lady will have an John Bottomley, managing director of JKB Shopfitting opportunity to raise that with appropriate Ministers on in Nelson. Like a number of other manufacturing firms 4 November. I should point out, however, that the in Pendle, the firm is currently doing so well that it has Forestry Commission has been buying and selling woodland outgrown its premises. Sadly, however, the local council for some time. I do not think that the concept of more and the chamber of commerce tell me that there are no of it being in the private sector is entirely new. grants available to help the firm to relocate within the borough; nor were there any such grants under the John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): The previous Government. As I know of several other firms Leader of the House is aware of my concern about the in the area that are constrained by their old premises, cases of two of my constituents, Noreen Akhtar—whom may we have an urgent debate on what more the I call the secret prisoner—and Andrew France, who Government could do to help Pendle businesses to have been bullied and threatened in an attempt to stop expand? them talking to me. Having discussed the matter with colleagues, I find that the problem is more widespread Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will have heard than I initially thought. Would the Leader of the House me announce a debate on the subject of growth, as the consider arranging a statement or a debate on the issue, choice of the Backbench Business Committee, in the so that we can canvass and discover how widespread next fortnight, which will provide him with an opportunity such instances are? to discuss this matter. The Government want to ensure that the financial sector can supply affordable credit to Sir George Young: I think that my hon. Friend is businesses such as the one he describes, and we would seeking to draw me into areas related to privilege which like to see more diverse sources of finance for SMEs, are very much above my pay grade, but you, Mr Speaker, including, where appropriate, access to equity finance. will have heard what he has suggested. I have written to him in the last day or so, suggesting other ways in which Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): The Prime Minister he might pursue his concerns. misled the House yesterday—[HON.MEMBERS: “Oh!”] Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): A response Mr Speaker: Order. from the Government to a consultation on the use of body image scanners at airports is overdue. Will the Leader of the House urge his colleague the Secretary of Mr David: I am sure that it was inadvertent, as we all State for Transport to publish a response as soon as know. He said that Labour MEPs had voted in favour possible, so that concerns about the appropriate balance of an increase in the EU budget, but that is not the case. between the protection of privacy and dignity on one They voted against the increase. When the Prime Minister hand and security on the other can be addressed? makes his statement to the House on Monday, perhaps he could correct the inadvertent mistake that he made. Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Lady’s point. At its heart is the balance between security and Sir George Young: I refer the hon. Gentleman and the dignity to which she has referred. Transport questions House to amendment 12 of the vote of 20 October, took place earlier today, so the opportunity may not which clearly states the need to take into account the occur again for three or four weeks, but in the meantime fiscal restraint being shown by member states, and calls I will write to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of for a freeze in the annual budget at 2010 levels. Conservatives State for Transport and see whether he can shed some and Liberal Democrats voted in favour; Labour voted light on when the outcome of the consultation will be against. known.

Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): May we Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): May we have a debate have a debate on the possibility of a freeze on new on the timetabling of Bills? In the present Parliament, employment law for 2011 and the inclusion of that idea should it not be much more transparent? If the Government in the Government’s forthcoming growth White Paper, and the Opposition, through the usual channels, agree which would enable British business to focus solely on on periods for timetabling, should that not appear on job creation, wealth and growth in 2011? the Order Paper as a matter of public record? I am sure that the Government and the Opposition Sir George Young: I entirely agree with my hon. agreed on the amount of time to be allotted to the Friend. He will know of our policy of what we call “one Committee and Report stages of the Parliamentary in, one out”. In other words, if a new regulation is Voting System and Constituencies Bill, but the Opposition introduced, an existing one must go. I hope that that have spent more time drifting through the Division and other initiatives will reduce the amount of bureaucracy Lobbies than diligently debating the detail of the Bill on and red tape that small and medium-sized enterprises the Floor of the House, and have then complained— have to cope with. Mr Speaker: Order. I am sure that what the hon. Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Given Gentleman is saying is learned, but I am afraid it is a the importance of woods and forests to biodiversity, disquisition. What I want is a one-sentence question to tackling climate change and our quality of life, will the the Leader of the House. Leader of the House arrange an urgent debate on the Government’s shocking plans to sell off to private developers Tony Baldry: My one-sentence question occurred at part of the Forestry Commission estate which includes the beginning of my disquisition, Mr Speaker, and I am some of our most ancient woodlands? sure that the Leader of the House got the drift of it. 475 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 476

Sir George Young: My hon. Friend has raised an issue It is indeed the case that the House will sit on some that is important to the House as a whole. In the 1997 Fridays beyond June 2011, and the calendar may well Parliament, when I was shadow Leader of the House, be updated at a later date to include extra Fridays. occupying the position now occupied by the right hon. However, they will be within what I might call the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), I put my “brown envelope” that appears on the calendar. We will name to timetable motions when we, as an Opposition, not suggest that the House should sit on Fridays in the were satisfied they provided a sensible way of dealing middle of recesses. with a Bill. That got rid of some of the problems identified by my hon. Friend. I hope that, given a new Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): There is now and, I am sure, reforming shadow Leader of the House, plenty of evidence that children who come from homes we can have sensible discussions about whether we can in poverty fall behind their peers from the age of 22 months, achieve consensus in relation to at least some Bills, so and a huge body of evidence suggesting that early that we can make the best possible use of the time that intervention is incredibly important to vulnerable children is available for the House to deal with important Bills. and children with special needs. May we have an urgent debate on the issue, given that it is now becoming clear Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): The Leader of the that the pupil premium will not be paid to children House is a tall man, but we should all look up to him under five? even more if he were not to resort to sharp practice to get the Bill through next week. As was pointed out by Sir George Young: I am not sure that that is entirely my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central the case. I hope that the hon. Lady will welcome the (Hilary Benn), the Government have tabled 28 pages of introduction of the pupil premium, which was designed amendments for debate on Monday, not a single one of precisely to target the problem that she has identified: which was called for during earlier debates on the Bill or the underachievement of children from poor households. by any Back Bencher. Many of those amendments refer I am sure that the next instalment of questions to the directly to the Scottish Parliament (Elections etc.) Order Secretary of State for Education will provide an opportunity 2010, which will not have been debated by Monday. for her to raise it, and I will seek to clarify the issue of Does that not constitute gross presumption of what the the extension of the pupil premium to those below the House may choose to do in the future, and does it not age of five. put the cart before the horse? Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): In the light of the Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman said that I comment by the Lord Chief Justice that far too many was a tall man; I say to the hon. Gentleman that he is, at violent and persistent offenders are getting away with a times, a verbose man. caution, may we have a statement form the Secretary of We have provided five days for the Committee stage State for Justice—as a matter of some urgency—so that of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies we can discover what the Government are doing to Bill, and two days for Report. I consider that to be a address those legitimate concerns, and ensure that those generous provision, and much of that time so far has who should be sent to court and to prison are sent to been spent by the hon. Gentleman speaking at length court and to prison rather than getting away with a from the Dispatch Box. [Interruption.] Moreover, some caution? of the time was not used last week when the House rose early. The House has been given adequate notice of the Sir George Young: As my hon. Friend will know, my issues on the Order Paper, and we shall have ample time right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor is planning to next Monday and Tuesday to deal with the amendments issue a White Paper, or possibly a Green Paper, on that have been tabled. [Interruption.] sentencing policy.I hope that that will provide a framework for the debate on which my hon. Friend has just launched Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Rhondda himself. (Chris Bryant) gives every indication that he is auditioning to become a football commentator, ensuring that we Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): The have the benefit of his narrative on every aspect of the cumulative effect of the Government’s housing policies proceedings. It is richly enjoyable, but not altogether on security of tenure, near-market rents and capital necessary. expenditure, as well as housing benefit, is the greatest threat to social cohesion for a generation. I would not Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): May I ask go as far as the Mayor of London and describe this as my mature, non-manic, well-educated right hon. Friend Kosovo-style social cleansing for fear of upsetting the whether we can have a debate on the House of Commons Deputy Prime Minister, but may we have a debate—in calendar covering business until 2012? Although it is the Chamber, not in Westminster Hall—on social cleansing very useful, it seems to have omitted from the shaded and gerrymandering in our inner cities? areas the additional days that the Government have promised for private Members’ Bills. Sir George Young: It is important to use careful language in the debate about housing benefit, and the use Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right. It does of phrases and words such as “social cleansing” or appear from the calendar that the House will not be “Kosovo” in that regard is not appropriate. sitting on any Friday after, I believe, June. He should, I do not think that it is going to happen. The hon. however, note the small print at the bottom of the Gentleman will know that, in many parts of the country, calendar, which states: private sector rents are set to hit the cap. It follows that, “Please note that all dates are provisional”. in many parts of the country, when the cap comes 477 Business of the House28 OCTOBER 2010 Business of the House 478

[Sir George Young] Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House ask the Secretary of State to make a statement down, so will the rents. There are discretionary grants, on the Export Credits Guarantee Department strategy to which I have referred, to help families in his constituency on supporting British exports? I have two companies in who have difficulty with the social reform. Despite what my constituency trying to export high-value products to he says about Westminster Hall, it is an appropriate Russia—Emerson and Renwick and Grahame and Brown. forum in which to debate these issues. The Opposition German Government grants are undercutting the loan have an Opposition day in a fortnight’s time and they value and it is impossible for us to export in those are entitled to debate housing benefits, if that is their conditions so we do not have a level playing field. I hope priority. that the Secretary of State can give a statement on the issue. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): May we have a debate on teaching George Orwell in our schools and Sir George Young: I am entirely in favour of firms in particularly his essay “Politics and the English language”, the hon. Gentleman’s constituency winning export orders so that pupils might be able to understand the double-speak and providing jobs in his constituency. I will raise with of a Government who describe what is a real cut in the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and school spending per pupil as a pupil premium? Skills the issue of there perhaps being an unlevel playing field and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman. Sir George Young: If the hon. Gentleman looks at the comprehensive spending review, he will see that there is a flat-cash settlement in terms of pupils, on top of Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland which there is a pupil premium; that is in addition. He West) (Lab): May we have a debate on the disproportionate, should look at what other Departments have had to do negative effect that the Government’s policies are having and at the plans that his own party had. Had it won the on the lives of women and children, particularly the election, he would have found there were real cuts in most vulnerable women and children? Can the Leader that budget. of the House explain how those policies are fair without blaming the previous Labour Government, because after Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): May I all these are his Government’s choices? reinforce the calls for a debate on the housing benefit changes? This is a Government proposal and we should Sir George Young: We have just had questions to my have a debate in this Chamber in Government time for right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities. the reasons given. What about a couple in their ’50s I am not sure whether the hon. Lady was in the Chamber, living in a three-bedroom council property, the family but she would have had an opportunity to raise those home, which their children have now left? In future, issues with my right hon. Friend an hour ago. because that couple will be deemed to be under-occupying that property, if they lose their job or go into short-time Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): May we have an working, the rent will not be covered by housing benefit. urgent debate on port infrastructure and the link to They face the prospect of becoming homeless and will offshore wind development? This week the Department not be covered by the homelessness legislation. The for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department proposal is unfair and unacceptable. We need a debate of Energy and Climate Change both announced that on it in this Chamber in Government time. the £60 million set-aside for UK ports would go to England only, with the Barnett consequential going to Sir George Young: As I said in response to the right Wales. That is a reserved matter for this Parliament. hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), our Surely Welsh and Scottish ports should have a level policies are seeking to achieve the objectives of Mr Purnell, playing field in applying for that subsidy. a former colleague of his, in ensuring that those who are on housing benefit are confronted with the same choices Sir George Young: Of course I understand the hon. on housing as those who are not in receipt of that Gentleman’s concern and I will raise with the appropriate benefit. There will be an opportunity to debate the Minister the distribution of grants for assistance to housing changes. Some of them need primary legislation ports within the UK. and some need secondary legislation, so the Government will provide time to debate them as the opportunity presents itself. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): A review of dangerous dogs legislation was initiated in Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): One of my March under the previous Government. The review constituents, Andy Brown, has been offered the seasonal concluded in June and, despite repeated requests from flu vaccine but only in combination with the swine flu me and others at Business questions and in writing, the vaccine. The swine flu vaccine is causing Guillain-Barré Government, four months later, have still to respond. syndrome. Can the Leader of the House make urgent Will the Leader of the House please urge the Secretary representations to the Secretary of State for Health to of State to update the House on the review of that instruct GPs to offer patients the choice of a separate legislation before, like John Paul Massey, who tragically vaccine? died in my constituency last December, another child is savaged by a dangerous dog? Sir George Young: I will share the hon. Lady’s concerns with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Sir George Young: The short answer is yes and I very Health and perhaps ask him to write to her before he much regret the incident that the hon. Lady has referred takes the rather dramatic action that she has proposed to. There are questions to the Home Office on 1 November, of writing to every GP. when she may have an opportunity to raise the matter. 479 Business of the House 28 OCTOBER 2010 480

Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Will the Leader Local Growth White Paper of the House ensure that Ministers give adequate notice of visits to Members’ constituencies? On Tuesday evening, 12.16 pm I received an e-mail notifying me of a visit by the Roads Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), Skills (Vince Cable): This Government’s economic ambition on Wednesday morning, which gave me inadequate is to build a more balanced economy, driven by private time to be there myself. Sefton council was notified of sector growth. Today I am announcing the publication the visit on Monday morning, two days earlier. Will the of the Government’s local growth White Paper, which Leader of the House investigate why the local authority sets out what that means for locally driven growth, job was given notice 36 hours before I was? creation and the Government’s role in supporting that. The previous Government’s policy sought to close Sir George Young: It is important that Ministers notify the gap between the greater south-east and the rest of Members when they are visiting Members’ constituents England through centrally led, unaccountable development and give them adequate notice. I will of course raise agencies whose boundaries often bore no relation to the with my hon. Friend the Minister the incident that the real economic geography. Ten years, and £19 billion hon. Gentleman has referred to and ask him to write later, the economy is still as regionally unbalanced as to him. before, if not more so. It is clear that that policy failed. Our new approach to Mr Speaker: I am grateful to colleagues for their sub-national growth therefore focuses on three key themes. co-operation. The first is shifting power to local communities and businesses. Local communities and businesses are in the best position to understand the opportunities and needs of their own economies. Therefore, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and I have asked business and civic leaders to come together with other partners, such as universities and the social and voluntary sectors, to form local enterprise partnerships which reflect natural economic areas. We received 62 proposals and I am pleased to say that today we are asking 24 partnerships to progress and set up their boards. The list of those partnerships is in annex A of the White Paper, which will be laid in the House today. Together, those 24 partnerships represent more than 60% of the economy of England outside London and cover almost all our major cities. Many of the remaining proposals are well developed and we will welcome further proposals when they are ready. We are undertaking separate discussions with the Mayor and London boroughs on local enterprise partnerships in London. The White Paper sets out a diverse range of roles which LEPs could take on, such as working with Government to set out key investment priorities, including transport infrastructure and supporting or co-ordinating project delivery; co-ordinating proposals or bidding directly for the regional growth fund; supporting high- growth business, for example through bringing together and supporting consortiums to run new growth hubs; and making representations on the development of national planning policy and ensuring that business is involved in the development and consideration of strategic planning applications. We will reinforce that at national level by transforming the national Business Link website and establishing a national contact centre. We will provide support to businesses with high growth potential through a network of growth hubs and bring together venture capital and loan funds at the national level. We will support key industry sectors and innovation at national level, including through a network of technology and innovation centres. UK Trade & Investment will have responsibility for promoting the UK overseas and helping exporters. LEPs will want to help investors to find sites and provide other support such as planning, infrastructure and support for skills. 481 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 482

[Vince Cable] framework for incentivising growth in housing supply, creating a simple, transparent and permanent incentive We are committed to an orderly transition from the that will be more effective than the failed top-down regional development agencies to the new delivery regional targets. arrangements, and we will aim to ensure that all staff We have also looked at the incentives for business are treated fairly. RDA assets and liabilities will be growth and decided that more can be done to give a transferred to other bodies through a clear and transparent strong and predictable incentive. We have considered process that is aimed at ensuring the best possible ways of enabling councils to retain locally raised business outcomes for regions and is consistent with achieving rates. That means many local councils will be set free value for the public purse. Assets will be transferred from dependency on central funding and it will represent with associated liabilities wherever possible. We expect a radical departure from the way in which the existing the RDAs to manage down existing financial commitments local government finance system operates. In considering within the funding envelope agreed in the spending this option, the Government are clear that businesses review. should not be subject to locally imposed increases in the The second key theme is focused intervention. Today burden of taxation that they do not support. We have we are launching the regional growth fund, which will already made it clear that businesses would have the achieve strong growth and create sustainable private right to hold a binding vote on any local authority sector jobs. The first bidding round is now open to bids proposals to introduce a local supplement on business from private bodies and public private partnerships, rates. That is a principle to which we remain firmly and first-round bids will be submitted by 21 January 2011. committed. Equally, we will ensure that all councils Some £1.4 billion is being made available over the have adequate resources to meet the needs of their local next three years to encourage private sector investment community. Rewarding growth is also about fairness in across England by providing support for projects with the local government finance system. Local business significant potential for private sector-led economic rate retention will be considered within the local government growth and sustainable employment. Support will be resource review, which the Government intend to launch provided in particular for bids from those English in January after a period of consultation on the proposals communities that currently are dependent on the public in the White Paper. sector to help them to make the transition to sustainable, To support renewable energy, we will be introducing a private sector-led growth. The advisory panel, chaired renewable energy bonus, which will mean that local by Lord Heseltine, will provide an independent strategic authorities can keep the business rates from renewable view to Ministers on how the fund should be deployed energy projects. Finally, we will bring forward proposals to achieve its objectives. As with all major business for tax increment financing to allow local authorities to investments undertaken under industrial development borrow against future increases in business rate revenues legislation, interventions will be subject to advice from to pay for upfront infrastructure and development costs. the Industrial Development Advisory Board. That will The measures set out in the White Paper complement ensure the highest possible level of commercial challenge the other measures the Government are taking to support through the process. Final decisions will be made jointly growth and job creation through infrastructure investment; by a ministerial group under the chairmanship of the support for education and skills; improvements in Deputy Prime Minister. The White Paper sets all this competition; and support for research and innovation. out in detail. This needs to be joined up with locally led action to Thirdly, there has to be confidence to invest. An efficient improve the environment for business, and we are today and effective planning system is crucial in enabling putting in place the tools for this to happen. growth. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government will soon bring Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): I forward policy and legislation to deliver that. In them, thank the Secretary of State for his statement, and of the Government will introduce a new duty to co-operate course I look forward to reading the White Paper when on local authorities, statutory undertakers and infrastructure it is made available to the House. providers, to ensure that the right people and groups Growth and jobs are of critical importance to every share information and work together to make the best family and every region of the country. They are the possible decisions for their area. best way to cut the deficit and the best way to offer hope We will reform the planning system so that it is driven to young people. The coalition Government will slash by communities and introduce a presumption in favour 500,000 public jobs and put 500,000 private sector of sustainable economic development. We will workers out of work through their reckless cuts, but fundamentally reform and simplify planning policy and they claim they will create 2.5 million new private sector guidance, presenting to Parliament a simple national jobs over the next four years. There is no sign today that planning framework that will cover all forms of they can live up to that claim. development. This framework will establish economic I do not suppose that the Business Secretary has ever growth as a Government priority for planning, and will used hair-restoring lotion, but if he had he would have lift many of the complex bureaucratic burdens that have discovered that just because it says “Promotes Growth” slowed down decision making. The review of framework on the bottle it does not mean that growth will happen. will be carried out in parallel with the localism Bill. It is very much the same with his Department and this The Government are also committed to introduce a White Paper. He calls it the Department for growth, but framework of effective incentives through the local the comprehensive spending review led to its funding government finance system to help to drive economic being cut by more than that of almost any other and housing growth at the local level. The Government’s Department. Is it not true that just when growth is most new homes bonus will be the cornerstone of the new important and business needs to be able to invest with 483 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 484 certainty and confidence, this statement confirms deep growth fund, no new legal powers and no promises of cuts in growth funding, a shambles of local development money—for example, from the Department for Work organisations that will last for years, broken promises to and Pensions—to replace the future jobs fund? Will he the English regions, a planning system that will not confirm press reports that key areas such as the south-west work and delays in key investments? and Lancashire will be left without a local economic This statement cuts the resources for regional partnership? Will he confirm that of places such as development by at least two thirds. RDAs will receive Hull, which is 11th in the deprivation index, Blackpool, about £1.4 billion this year, but the regional growth which is 12th, Blackburn, which is 14th, and Burnley, fund will have £1.4 billion over three years. Will the which is 24th, none will have even a feeble local economic Business Secretary admit that the tiny regional growth partnership, which other areas will enjoy? Will he fund will now have to pay for many activities that RDAs confirm that RDA redundancy payments will cost nearly did not have to fund? The Minister for Housing and £500 million? Will he confirm that for the next two Local Government says it must pay for housing renewal. years, when growth is crucial, most businesses will have The Transport Secretary says it must pay for transport. no coherent local development agency to talk to about It will invite national applications as well as those from key investments, key infrastructure decisions and major local and regional schemes. Will the Business Secretary planning decisions? Is it not true that Wales and Scotland confirm that he expects the money to run out after one will enjoy coherent and focused business support and round of bids? England will not? The Chancellor of the Exchequer once accused Lord The world outside cares little about the petty power Mandelson of writing cheques before the election, but battles between the Business Secretary and the Communities what happened when the coalition set out to cancel Secretary, but they, together, owed it to business and to them? They found that the investments made by Labour the country to provide certainty, clarity, confidence and ensured that Nissan would develop electric vehicles, coherence for the future, and between them they have Ford would produce new engines and Vauxhall would failed. Will the Business Secretary confirm that in so maintain car production, and enabled Airbus to design many other areas the coalition is failing to produce the and develop the A350, secured the next generation of conditions for growth? There is no plan for growth. offshore wind blades and supported the video games How will cutting hundreds of thousands of training industry and start-up biotech companies. I am pleased opportunities for adults help employers with the skills Labour’s investments finally went ahead, but is not the they need? What has happened to Labour’s plans to truth that the coalition has now completely hamstrung transfer responsibility for skills to employer-led itself in respect of making such investments in the organisations? At a time when every other OECD country future? apart from Romania is increasing higher education The regional growth fund is a pathetic fig leaf to funding, how will cutting such funding produce the cover absence of any growth strategy.It is not regional—all graduates we need? the decisions will be taken by two semi-retired politicians More than 70 councils have started to withdraw or in London—and it is not much of a growth fund. As delay planning applications since regional strategies Sir Ian Wrigglesworth, deputy chair of the growth were scrapped. How does that give the construction fund, said: industry the certainty it needs? The scheme for retaining “One billion pounds over two years is not a lot of money and business rates seems to build on Labour’s business rate the amount you can do with it is limited.” supplement, but how much does the Business Secretary Will the Business Secretary admit that the Government’s expect it to raise? Will it compensate for the 30% cut in reckless cuts mean that growth will be underfunded? local government funding? Does he believe that all Will he admit that if the coalition had adopted the councils will benefit equally, or will those facing the responsible and measured approach to deficit reduction greatest challenges get less money from his new policy? set out by the shadow Chancellor, public spending Why are green industries laying off workers because of would have been cut by £30 billion less, allowing us to uncertainty about renewable energy policy? When the focus on growth? Government announced eight nuclear power stations, why did they not make the loan to Sheffield Forgemasters Support for growth is not just about the level of which would have made sure that specialist steel was public spending; it is about creating business confidence made in Britain, not in Korea or Japan? The Government and certainty. What happened to the Business Secretary’s have turned off the tap on the drivers of growth and promise to the Yorkshire Post: jobs. There is no plan for growth. They have given up “What we have said is where RDAs are doing a good job and on growth. where the partners recognise they are doing a good job, they can continue in a similar form to what they have at the moment”? Vince Cable: Many of the specific questions about Where is the evidence that business wants what he has policy, the role of the local enterprise partnerships, the announced today? Is not the director general of the CBI numbers, those that have been approved and the process right to say that local economic partnerships of approval are dealt with in the White Paper, which is “have got off to a pretty ropy start. So far it’s been a bit of a available at the Vote Office. shambles”? The whole premise of the right hon. Gentleman’s Is not the Institute of Directors right to say that if local central arguments is that Government performance is economic partnerships do not have money measured by how much money is put in, not by what we “they’ll be little more than a toothless talking shop”? get out of it. I will come to the performance of the Will the Business Secretary confirm that the local regional development agencies in a moment. He repeats economic partnerships will have no start-up funding, the argument, which he has done on several occasions, no core funding, no guaranteed access to the regional of how much money we should be spending on higher 485 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 486

[Vince Cable] Mr Speaker: Order. A great many hon. and right hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye, but time is education, further education and regional development, limited and we have a heavily subscribed debate to and I have thrown the same question back at him in all follow, so brevity from Back Benchers and Front Benchers our exchanges. We know that the outgoing Government alike is essential. Moreover, I should remind hon. and were planning to cut the budget of this Department by right hon. Members that they should not expect to be 20 to 25%, but he has never explained where the money called unless they were in the Chamber at the beginning was going to come from. Was it from HE, FE, regional of the delivery of the Secretary of State’s statement. development or science? We have never had an answer and until we have one we cannot engage in a serious Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I congratulate debate on priorities. my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on bringing The RDAs were the focus of much of the right hon. the private sector into the driving seat of the economic Gentleman’s response. As I say, the issue is not how renewal that is very much required locally. The sector much the Government spend, but what they get out of will be in partnership for the first time with local it. The RDAs absorbed £19 billion over a decade, but authorities, so that private business will have a seat at what did they achieve? Their objective was to achieve a the table discussing infrastructure and planning matters narrowing of the gap in growth between the north and at last. He has mentioned—indeed, we now have the the west midlands, on the one hand, and the south-east, White Paper—the 24 LEPs that he has approved. Will on the other. If one studies the figures, one finds that in he say a little about the next steps for future LEP fact a widening divergence took place during the decade. approvals? May I also commend my area’s LEP, the The role of the RDAs in stemming that process was Black Country LEP, for which local business leaders utterly ineffective. As the right hon. Gentleman said, have great enthusiasm? the RDAs did, of course, have teeth, but they also had an enormous appetite and they consumed an enormous Vince Cable: In terms of private sector participation, amount of resource with very little output. What the the LEPs will have boards that are split 50:50 between LEPs will have is the word “partnership”; the partnership business and the local communities and will be chaired will be between local communities and business, and by business representatives. They will be driven by this will be instead of the top-down Government-dictated business, which has a direct interest in ensuring that approach to development. growth takes place. It will be a change from a begging-bowl The right hon. Gentleman asked about planning and relationship to a partnership; that is the essence of this the planning system. Let me review some of the legacy. approach. The Black Country LEP is not on the first The level of approvals for office, retail and industrial list. The assessment made was that there was not a development, in a decade of relatively high growth, sufficient business input into the proposal, but we hope actually declined, while the rate of refusals increased. it will proceed very quickly. We have a system where every year £750 million is spent on consultancy fees and legal fees by people trying to Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): get through the planning process. It is no wonder that I endorse the comment made by my fellow black country very little happens. The system of planning guidance MP, the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James), and advice that we inherited involves 7,000 pages of about the quality of the black country LEP bid, and I Government documentation; it is almost as complicated hope that it will be favourably considered in future. May as the tax system that we inherited and it is equally I focus for a moment on the Secretary of State’s comment dysfunctional. about particularly welcoming bids from areas that are highly dependent on public sector employment? Such The right hon. Gentleman mentioned, in passing, the areas are often dependent on public sector employment key issue of housing, which is crucial not only to our because of the weakness of the private sector. Given population, but to local development on the ground. that the public sector is under extreme financial pressures, What is remarkable is that even in the highest boom can he explain how such areas will be able to put year of 2008, fewer houses were built in Britain than at together the expertise, and have the people, time and the depths of the recession of the early 1990s. In 2009, resources, to make a bid to the regional growth fund there were 118,000 housing completions, which can be that would be capable of balancing or rebalancing their set against an estimated growth in the number of households regional economy? of 250,000. The system of planning and the support that the previous Government put in place failed utterly in this central task of development. Vince Cable: In terms of the process for dealing with the LEPs, we had what my colleagues call a traffic light My final point is that we inherited a system of local system. Very good, imaginative proposals with a strong government finance and decision making that was the business input that meet the needs of economic geography most centralised in Europe. The only country in Europe were put through to the first group. Quite a lot of the that has a higher percentage of central Government proposals were yellow rather than green, and they are funding for local government is Malta. We believe that being processed. I hope that soon we will have a list. the previous Government wanted to organise fact-finding Some had no ambition and no private sector input, and missions to Malta to find out how they could improve we have simply told them that they need to think again. by having that extra bit of centralised decision making. Our Government are trying to move to more decentralised It is easy, I think, to fall lazily into stereotypes about decision making, based on local communities and a growth in areas dominated by public sector employment. genuine partnership with business, and that is what will I recently looked at the figures produced by my Department produce local growth. on the rate of growth of new company formation in different towns and cities in Britain. The best performance Several hon. Members rose— in the UK was in Sunderland, followed by Rotherham. 487 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 488

They are not archetypal south-east of England growth confident that they will promote growth and help Cornwall areas. There is a lot of entrepreneurial potential across realise its economic potential. Will the Secretary of this country, and we want to encourage and develop it. State reassure businesses in my constituency, especially those involved in the port of Falmouth master plan, Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Why that financial support from the regional growth fund have Ministers not yet agreed a local economic partnership will be targeted at enabling new jobs in private enterprise? to cover Northumberland and Tyneside? Will whatever body is created have access to the assets that have been Vince Cable: Yes, it is designed to do exactly that. I built up for the purposes of redevelopment and the can confirm that Cornwall and Isles of Scilly is one of income stream that those assets can give for continuing the LEPs that is going ahead in the first wave. redevelopment work?

Vince Cable: As far as the north-east—in particular Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): the Northumberland and Tyneside area—is concerned, Given that the £80 million loan to Sheffield Forgemasters we were disappointed that we got a very fragmented set was all about providing strategic investment to the of proposals. What has been agreed is that Teesside will advanced manufacturing sector to promote private sector go ahead; it is in the first list. Those behind four other growth, may I take it from the Secretary of State’s LEP proposals that cover almost the whole region have statement about focused intervention that his early now agreed to work together on a north-east basis. We disastrous decision to cancel the loan will be reversed, think that that has great promise. We said that it needed or will he continue to dig his heels in in the hope that the a small additional amount of work and then it would issue will go away? I can assure him that it will not. get the go-ahead, and the kind of structure that my right hon. Friend wants will proceed. Vince Cable: We have discussed this extensively in the As far as the assets are concerned, my Department House and in the Select Committee, and we have explained has set up a working group that will help to manage the that the situation we were confronted with was that that RDA asset disposal issue. As I said, we will try to project was not affordable. If new projects come up manage this in a careful way, with assets and liabilities from there or elsewhere, they can be considered by the together. Some will be transferred, where appropriate, regional growth fund on their merits. to local communities, councils or the LEP, but the criterion will be getting good value for money for the Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): May I thank the Secretary taxpayer. After all, this is taxpayers’ money and that is of State for allowing the west of England LEP to go our primary requirement. There will not be gifts to local ahead and advise him to educate the shadow Secretary communities, but, in terms of maintaining the coherence of State on what those initials stand for? On the issue of and integrity of those developments, we will endeavour the creative industries, does he agree that the creative to keep them together. industries could be one of the key drivers for growth in this country? Will he therefore assure us that the Several hon. Members rose— transformation of Business Link and the planned technology and innovation centres will be specifically Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May directed to help them? I suggest very short questions and quick answers? That would be very helpful. Vince Cable: My colleague is absolutely right that the contribution of the creative industries sector has been Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab): consistently ignored in the past. In terms of employment What the Secretary of State has announced today is and value-added, it has at least as much growth as the very wrong. One NorthEast did a good job for the financial services sector. I propose to work with my north-east of England. How can he justify some form colleague in the Department for Culture, Media and of new localism when he is centralising every major Sport to bring the industry together to see what we can decision in his Department and has been completely do to overcome the obstacles to its growth. unable to answer the question of what will happen with residual assets and residual liabilities? Will he be far more specific on that point than he has been in answer John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): to the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed Given that the Secretary of State was too frit to face (Sir Alan Beith)? concerned students today, I guess we should be grateful that he has had the courage to come to the House at all. Vince Cable: The process is necessarily complex and Given that he is here, can he explain to an area such as we are trying to balance a series of considerations—making mine, which has greater levels of deprivation and is order and keeping continuity, as well as getting value further away from the natural engines of growth in the for money—and the White Paper explains that. As far economy, how exactly he will guarantee that businesses as the north-east is concerned, I am disappointed that, will get the support they need, given the enormous and faced with the challenge, there was a fragmented response. significant cuts in funding and the fact that there is no We are hoping to come to a satisfactory conclusion that certainty at all in the current arrangements? will have a north-eastern group together with one for Teesside. Vince Cable: I think I answered that in my statement. In areas that really matter to business, such as the Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): I want availability of trained manpower, there will be, as the warmly to congratulate the team of Ministers on the hon. Gentleman will remember from the outcome of presentation of these very positive proposals. I am the comprehensive spending review, an increased number 489 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 490

[Vince Cable] are overlapping bids, fiercely competitive and different, and we are in the process of evaluating which are of apprenticeships and increased commitment to innovation strongest on the criteria that we have set. centres, for example. Those are the things that really matter. Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): I congratulate the Department. I know that businesses in Norfolk that Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): My right hon. Friend have been working to put together an LEP bid are will be aware of the enthusiasm in Bedfordshire for the excited, despite what the shadow Secretary of State proposed south-east midlands local enterprise partnership said, about the opportunities offered by an LEP. I know and the hard work of the Liberal Democrat mayor of they will be disappointed to be part of the gap and not Bedford for that initiative. Does my right hon. Friend to have been approved at present. Can the Secretary of agree that the response to the cry of “No funding” from State please give advice to colleagues in Norfolk and in Opposition Members is that the real cry here is, “No Suffolk about what they can do to put a successful bid more central diktat on local growth and local funding”? together?

Vince Cable: My hon. Friend makes exactly the right Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right. Norfolk is point. This was a good example of cross-party working not on the first list. We are hoping it will be successful. and it is about decentralisation and local decision making, The advice that I would offer is for the different councils rather than centrally driven decisions. to work together collaboratively, to involve the local business community more actively than it has been, and Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): to be ambitious in their aims. Will the Secretary of State explain how these arrangements could replace the vital work done by the Northwest Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Advantage Regional Development Agency in setting up the Daresbury West Midlands was the most successful regional science and innovation campus, which is now a national development agency, generating £8.14 in the private centre of scientific excellence, supporting biomedical sector for every £1 of public money invested. Does the centres across the north-west, including in Liverpool, Secretary of State share the clear concern expressed by and making Liverpool’s year as European capital of the business community in the west midlands that the culture the tremendous success it was? combination of, on the one hand, LEPs with no resource, one third of the funding previously available to them, Vince Cable: I would certainly be interested in finding and facing a land grab by the Treasury, and on the other out more about the science and innovation centre. It hand, no strategic structure to promote and protect the might well prove to be a key component of the innovation vital automotive industry in the west midlands, will hit centre programme that we want to roll out across the hard the midlands region, which faces 100,000 job country and would probably receive rather more support losses as a result of last week’s spending review? from that than it has to date. We clearly need to do this in a planned and orderly way, and I look forward to Vince Cable: I do not share the hon. Gentleman’s hearing more about it. concern, because several of the strongest bids were from the west midlands, as he knows—Birmingham, Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Businesses and Solihull, Coventry and Warwickshire, among others. business groups are more interested in the work and The strategic oversight and the help that we need to give agenda of local enterprise partnerships than they are in to the automobile industry—he is right to continue to their constitutions. Does my right hon. Friend share my emphasise that and to pursue me about it—will be concern that bids to establish the partnerships might as pursued through the Automotive Council, which is one a result more closely reflect local political rivalries than of our most successful sectoral bodies. the reality of business and labour market geographies? Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): In his letter Vince Cable: That was one of the dangers to which to me of 10 September, the Secretary of State said that we were alerted. For example, when bids were simply a he would bear in mind a visit to Mid Derbyshire, where vehicle for local councils that wanted to create a local I have two companies that are losing all their jobs or talking shop without proper involvement from business, greatly reducing them, and one great success story, a they did not proceed. The bids that have been approved hosiery company called Pretty Polly and Aristoc. Will are businesslike, focused and well organised, and they he come and explain to them the measures that he is will succeed. putting in place, which I welcome and which I am sure they will welcome, so that he can tell them first-hand Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): The north-west what we as a Government are doing? feels that it was badly misled by the Government on the future of the Northwest Regional Development Agency. Vince Cable: My colleague has been assiduous in As we have not had sight of the Secretary of State’s pursuing me about that, and she is right to do so. That decisions today on the successful 24 LEPs, will he tell us is what good constituency MPs do. There is an LEP for the status of the multiple bids made by Lancashire? Derby and Derbyshire. It is one of the strongest, and I What observations might he wish to offer Lancashire if am happy to meet her to talk about the future or her they are not, as I suspect, one of the successful 24? specific concerns locally.

Vince Cable: Several of the best bids came from the Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East north-west, including Greater Manchester and Liverpool Cleveland) (Lab): At present, £1.9 billion of England’s city region. There is a problem with Lancashire as there European regional development fund pot is still there to 491 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 492 be spent, but in order to be drawn down, ERDF cash strategy, this significant asset will continue to be maintained must be matched by other public or private sector by the Government or the local authority to ensure that funding, which was co-ordinated through the RDAs. I it continues to bring vital jobs to the area? have been looking through the Minister’s booklet today and there is no clarification of the new structure. It Vince Cable: That is another question along the lines states: of the original question from my right hon. Friend the “The new delivery structure will be announced at Budget Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) about 2011.” the management of RDA assets. They will be managed As the coalition has placed a freeze on RDA spending carefully and, where it is appropriate and sensible, they beyond March 2011, including match funding, can the will be passed over to local organisations, but in a way Minister please clarify how we are to draw down crucial that realises value for money. ERDF funds for places such as Teesside? Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): I warmly Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right: we need to welcome the proposals set out this morning. I am take maximum advantage of the regional funding available delighted. They will make a real difference in the long from the European Union. RDAs have a residual role in term in the south-west. However, looking at the approved that, but the process of collating our bids and making list, I am sad that the south-west is rather bereft of sure that we get maximum value will be led by my right LEPs, and Devon, which I represent, is not on it. Will hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and the Secretary of State meet me to talk about the Devon Local Government. proposals so that we can see what can be put right?

Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Businesses in Pendle Vince Cable: I am sure that I or the Ministers of State and I are keen that the Pennine Lancashire bid, for in both Departments would be happy to talk about which we have recently submitted additional information, that, but the key problem, as I understand it, is that will be approved soon. Will the Secretary of State there was a dispute between several local authorities, reassure me that the remaining decisions on LEPs will which were not able to get their act together. They must be taken speedily? take responsibility for that, but we want to help them through the process. Vince Cable: Yes, I can give that assurance. My colleague in the other place, Lord Greaves, has been bending my Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): ear on that proposal, and it seems a good one, but we Despite all the coalition’s talk of localism, I am concerned need to rationalise it. to learn today that assets currently owned by RDAs are not guaranteed to remain in local ownership. Will the Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Will the Secretary Secretary of State confirm that none of the assets of State state his intentions for the highly skilled and currently owned by the RDA, such as the Wavertree independent Planning Inspectorate? technology park in my constituency, will not be sold off by his Department? Vince Cable: The development of the planning system and what that means for policy and operationally will Vince Cable: I cannot give guarantees on the treatment be set out by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State of specific assets. As I said, they will be managed for Communities and Local Government. He is bringing carefully and in a way that produces value for money forward very soon proposals on planning reform, and for the taxpayer, who originally invested in them. That I am sure he will address that issue. will be done in a way that reinforces local development. Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I welcome the statement by my right hon. Friend and also the fact that the LEP Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): The announcements for Stoke and Staffordshire has been approved. Given made this morning will be warmly welcomed by all the importance of manufacturing in both my constituency, progressive local authorities across the country. In keeping Stafford, and Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent as a with the incentives to build houses for people to live in, whole, can he give us some news on the Manufacturing will my right hon. Friend elucidate further the incentives Advisory Service? that will be given to local authorities to encourage the growth of private sector businesses in their areas? Vince Cable: The Manufacturing Advisory Service provides one of the best industrial support activities, Vince Cable: It is revealing, in a way, that half an and we intend to continue it and continue to fund it. hour into questions that is the first question we have With reference to the hon. Gentleman’s area, I recently had about the key development, which is creating incentives met representatives from several parties on the future of for local authorities to grow. Those did not exist before. Stoke and the ceramics industry. Although it is a small We have the new homes bonus. We are talking about the industry, we want to continue to give support wherever repatriation of business rates and a series of incentives we can. that local authorities will in future have to grow and develop, which currently do not exist. Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): Advantage West Midlands invested significantly in the Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Is not the CBI right i54 business site on the edge of my constituency and is to describe the whole process as a shambles? That is maintaining and creating jobs for the local area. Will certainly what it has been in the south-west, which has the Business Secretary reassure me that in the absence fallen back into the worst parochialism and petty rivalry of Advantage West Midlands and a regional growth that bedevilled the system before RDAs. Why does not 493 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 494

[Mr Ben Bradshaw] such organisations function. A community enterprise partnership of the kind that the hon. Gentleman describes the Secretary of State think again before it is too late is exactly the way to make LEPs operational and and he does untold damage to the economy of the effective. south-west? Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): Business Link, Vince Cable: My Department has been talking to the which is located on the Spectrum industrial park in my CBI, which is pleased with the outcome, as it made constituency, recently announced 150 job losses as a clear. On petty parochialism, that is a strange way for result of in-year cuts to the budget of One NorthEast. the right hon. Gentleman to describe his own local Given the announcement that we have just heard, will community. We have tried to ensure that the process is the Business Secretary clarify where the national Business driven from the bottom up and is not centrally imposed. Link contact centre is going to be based? Good local authorities, working with local businesses, are producing very creative, positive ways forward. What Vince Cable: Obviously I regret any redundancies is wrong with that? that result from either that decision or others. Clearly, none of us relishes that prospect, but Business Link was James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): widely criticised by the businesses for which it was I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement, particularly designed. It was not an effective system, nor was it the emphasis on private sector jobs and skills. Can he be cost-effective for the taxpayer, so the Minister of State, more specific about the time scale and process for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my Black Country LEP, given the importance of private hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford sector jobs and skills development to the black country? (Mr Prisk), is developing a new model, based essentially on website advice, but more generally, and he will unveil Vince Cable: As I think I told one of the hon. it shortly. Gentleman’s colleagues earlier, there was a problem with the black country submission, which did not have Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): May I welcome a sufficiently substantial business input. We hope that today’s announcement of a Cheshire and Warrington those problems will be resolved within weeks rather LEP and the proposals in the White Paper for a new than months, and it is important that they are, because duty to co-operate on planning matters? Will that new the deadline for the first bidding round in the regional duty apply across national boundaries? I represent the growth fund is in January, so the relevant bodies will city of Chester, which has a Welsh border within half a need to progress quickly if they are to participate. mile of the city centre, and it is crucial not only that west Cheshire and Chester have a duty to co-operate Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): The Secretary with Wrexham and Flintshire in north Wales, but that of State has railed against centralisation this lunchtime, Wrexham and Flintshire have a duty to co-operate but the truth is that we in the north-east had a consensus with Chester. on the value of our RDA. Only this morning, James Ramsbotham, the head of the North East chamber of Vince Cable: The answer is yes. We have to respect commerce, complained about the pulling back of inward devolved powers in Wales, but the simple answer is yes: investment to Victoria street. When will the Secretary of there will be an obligation to co-operate. State think again? Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): How will areas such Vince Cable: I thought that there was a consensus in as the Humber, which has not been awarded an LEP, the north-east, but it manifested itself in a whole series gain access to regional growth funds and other funds, of fragmented bids, and that is rather sad. Fortunately, such as the European regional development fund? the situation has been retrieved. Council leaders are now working and talking together, and they have produced Vince Cable: They will gain access if they are able to a much better proposal, which I think will succeed. On bring forward quickly a proposal that meets the key foreign investment, it is absolutely absurd for regional requirements. There was a strong division of opinion, development agencies throughout the country to have of which the hon. Gentleman will be well aware, about separate, competing ambassadors in overseas countries. whether the activity should centre on Hull or on the Such work really has to be done much more sensibly, wider Humber region. There were arguments for both, and the LEPs will have a role in helping foreign investors but the relevant bodies really do have to come to a once they have committed themselves to a particular decision quickly if they are to participate in this bidding location. round.

Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Will my Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I warmly right hon. Friend pay tribute to Barry Dodd and those welcome the go-ahead for the south-east midlands LEP. behind the Yorkshire Enterprise Partnership, a community Does my right hon. Friend agree that it makes much interest company that will work with LEPs in Yorkshire more sense for an area such as Milton Keynes, which to promote inward investment and to co-ordinate sits at the junction of three regions, to be grouped with opportunities throughout the county? Is that not a its natural economic partners, rather than with an artificial great example of bottom-up, rather than top-down? area such as south-east England?

Vince Cable: It is, and it also addresses the issue that Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman highlights briefly Opposition Members have raised: the assumption that and eloquently why the RDA structure just did not only if the Government provide a large budget can work. As I recall, it was designed during the war to 495 Local Growth White Paper28 OCTOBER 2010 Local Growth White Paper 496 allow for the division of aerodromes; it had absolutely geographically based, common-sense approach that we nothing to do with simple economic geography. The want to encourage. It will link London with those parts structure that he describes is a vast improvement. outside the capital with which it has a natural economic affinity. Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): I have real concerns about the Secretary of State’s over-simplistic Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): In comments on housing and planning. It might surprise his opening remarks, the Secretary of State said that the him to hear, however, that by page 8 of his statement I thing that local enterprise partnerships will have is found something with which I might be able to agree. partnership. May I press him a little more on whether He said that local business rate retention will be considered, they will actually have any money to chase such things but will he confirm that that involves the consideration as the regional growth fund? Will any money be allocated not merely of local authorities being able to keep marginal for running costs, or will the money for LEPs come increases in business rates, but of the complete localisation from children’s services, emptying the bins and other of business rates, so that once again local authorities local authority spending on front-line services? are able to control the majority of their resources? If he is prepared to confirm that, and subject to how it is Vince Cable: The Government are not providing the done, he might find some cross-party support on that LEPs with a budget, but that is not to say that the particular issue. partners, which include local authorities and businesses, cannot contribute to something that is in their self-interest. Vince Cable: I am glad that I have, because that is indeed exactly what we are considering, albeit with Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby) (Lab): The Secretary appropriate protections for business. of State’s words about localism will ring rather hollow on Humberside, where we have just had to face the Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I regret, postponement of improvements to the A160 in order to but perhaps more importantly I suspect that the Secretary ease the bottlenecks building up around Immingham, of State will come to regret, the abolition of the regional Britain’s busiest port. Will he follow up on what he said development agencies. I note from his statement, however, to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic that further discussions will take place between the Dakin) about the Humberside economic partnership? Mayor of London and the London boroughs. Will the Business and the chamber of commerce want a pan- right hon. Gentleman take into account in those further Humber economic partnership, but the local authorities discussions the sub-regional business hubs throughout do not seem able to agree. Which side is the Secretary of London, and the growth corridors between London State going to be on? and areas outside London? In my area, the M11 is such a corridor. Will he take all those factors into account Vince Cable: We will look at the quality of the before making a decision? proposals. An LEP is going forward for Lincolnshire, and it is a pity that the partnership did not include the Vince Cable: Yes, we will. In fact, one of the most unitary authorities to which the hon. Gentleman refers, imaginative and interesting LEPs is what we call the but it is really for communities to get their act together. coast-to-capital LEP, uniting the south coast towns Those that have will succeed; those that do not will fall with southern London. That is exactly the kind of behind. 497 28 OCTOBER 2010 Points of Order 498

Points of Order made a statement in respect of the process for early-day motions when the Table Office is unhappy with them. I 1.7 pm have been operating in accordance with that process on two EDMs, one relating to Andrew France, the other to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Noreen Akhtar, since the start of September, and I Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): requested that they be sent to the Speaker on 12 October, On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. During a which I believe has now been done. Can the process be debate on housing in Westminster Hall yesterday morning, reviewed from the point of view of establishing a timetable? I used language that, on reflection, was clearly inappropriate In certain situations, such as that of Noreen Akhtar, the and not parliamentary. I seek to withdraw those words timetable is quite important, because she is continually and to apologise to you, to the House and to the right maltreated by Birmingham city council, which refuses hon. and hon. Members concerned in that debate. to give any information about her case.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I thank the Mr Deputy Speaker: I thank the hon. Gentleman for hon. Member for withdrawing his comments. He has that point of order. I will draw it to the attention of the corrected the record. Speaker.

Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): On a point of Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): On a order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the apology from point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Was it in order for the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and the Secretary of State for Transport to claim in the Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove Chamber this morning that the A453 widening scheme (Andrew Stunell), but will you seek an apology from the is in the development pool for decision in 2011 when Minister for Housing and Local Government, the right that is simply not true? hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps)? In Communities and Local Government questions last Mr Deputy Speaker: I will certainly bring that to the week, the right hon. Gentleman said that between 1997 attention of the Speaker. You have got it on the record. and 2010 there was a net gain of 14,000 new affordable homes. Figures published by the Department for Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): On a point of Communities and Local Government this morning show order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In his statement, the Business that, actually, the Labour Government built more than Secretary said that the many questions that hon. Members 500,000 new homes during that time. In 2009-10, 56,000 new had would be answered in the White Paper, but that homes were built in the teeth of the recession. He document was not in the Vote Office when he stood up should come to the House and apologise. to make his statement and when most Members were already in the House. May I ask that when the Government Mr Deputy Speaker: The right hon. Lady has put her make statements on White Papers in future, they ensure view on the record. A mechanism exists for corrections, that Members of this House have the document before and these can be made. Ministers are responsible for the the Secretary of State stands up? content of their statements and answers. Mr Deputy Speaker: I believe that what the right hon. John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): On a Gentleman says is true, but the document is now available point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Yesterday the Speaker to Members. 499 28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 500

Comprehensive Spending Review Danny Alexander: I do not accept that analysis, and I will come to that point later. The hon. Lady should be aware that her party’s plans were for £44 billion-worth 1.11 pm of cuts, which would have had an impact on people too. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): Many of the things that we have done, such as uprating I beg to move, the state pension in line with earnings and protecting the national health service, which her party would not That this House has considered the matter of the Comprehensive have done, support women. Spending Review. It is eight days since my right hon. Friend the Chancellor Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): The right hon. set out the conclusions of the Government’s spending Gentleman is perpetuating the myth that there is no review—this coalition’s plan to bring the country back alternative, but he just said that the previous Government from the brink. We had to act to tackle the deficit: it was had a strategy in place for paying off the deficit, so there the only option to secure our country’s future. It is the is an alternative. An alternative was also put forward in only option to build a strong platform for future growth 1945. He can take whichever direction he likes, but he and prosperity, and we will see it through. cannot keep claiming that the decisions he is making In charting the course for the next four years, we have are the only alternative, because others have been put made choices. We have chosen to invest in growth, jobs forward. and the future of the economy. We have chosen to protect the most vulnerable and extend the ladder of Danny Alexander: No alternatives have been put forward opportunity. We have chosen to cut the costs of central by the hon. Gentleman’s Front Benchers; perhaps he Government to free up the front line. These are our wants to talk to them about that. priorities—growth, fairness, reform. They are the right priorities. Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): The figures assume 8% inflation over the period, but if, in the first Several hon. Members rose— couple of years, we have a complete pay freeze in the public sector and we buy things more cheaply, as is the plan, does not that mean that cash rises can translate Danny Alexander: I am going to get to end of this into real rises in the programmes that are going up in section, and I will give way then. cash terms? These are some of the most difficult decisions that any modern Government have had to make, with every Danny Alexander: The right hon. Gentleman is certainly number on every page representing someone’s job or a right to say that at the end of the spending review public service someone relies on. They are decisions that I spending will be higher in cash terms than it is at the know will affect everyone. So today I will set out why we moment. In real terms, it will go back to the level of had to act, the principles guiding our choices, and why about 2008-09, and in terms of a share of gross domestic fairness is at the heart of this spending review. product to about the level of 2006-07. People need to be realistic about the scale of what is being proposed. The Several hon. Members rose— big gainer from the huge deficit that Labour left us with was the department of debt interest, and unfortunately Danny Alexander: There is an important debate to be it is the cost of debt interest that we have to meet. had. The Opposition have a chance to contribute to this discussion, but the price of being taken seriously is a Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): credible and detailed plan. They need to recognise that Will the Chief Secretary give way? we cannot go on in the way that they did; they need to say which cuts they support and which they oppose, and Danny Alexander: I will give way one more time, and what they would do instead. Without that, it is opposition then move on. for opposition’s sake, and the country will not take them seriously. Mr Bailey: The right hon. Gentleman has put great emphasis on the debt that he inherited and the need for the Opposition to be responsible. Given that the greater Several hon. Members rose— part of that debt was incurred in bailing out the banks and supporting manufacturing industry, could he be Danny Alexander: So today’s debate also offers a responsible and tell us what he would have cut in that challenge for Labour Members. I will be listening carefully position? to what they have to say, and I hope that the British public will receive a long-overdue apology for the mess Danny Alexander: We have set out in detail what we that one party caused and which two parties have come would cut—that is the whole point of the spending together to clean up. review.

Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I thank the right Several hon. Members rose— hon. Gentleman for giving way—at last. He says that in order to be taken seriously, we need a plan. In order for Danny Alexander: I am going to press on; I will give him to be taken seriously, he needs to be truthful with way again in a moment. people. I do not understand how he can claim that The House and the British people will never forget fairness is a principle of this comprehensive spending the financial position of this country when we came review when women have been hit twice as hard as men. into office, with £1 borrowed for every £4 spent—the 501 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 502

[Danny Alexander] has announced in its front-line staff. Can he tell the House, because he must have this figure, how much he largest deficit in our peacetime history. Debt interest has set aside to pay the redundancy bills for the job cuts payments alone stood at £43 billion a year—that is that he has announced? £120 million a day. Danny Alexander: I welcome the hon. Lady to her Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab) rose— place. I think that it is the first time we have had an exchange over the Dispatch Box, and I congratulate her Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab) on her appointment. Departments will set out their rose— work force plans in due course. They are working on those things, and there are many things that they can do Danny Alexander: I will press on, and give way in a to avoid excessive redundancies. [Interruption.] Iam moment. not going to go into individual departmental figures. Thanks to Labour’s profligacy, there really was no money left. The country knew it, our business leaders Ms Eagle rose— knew it, and, as we discovered, the Labour Chief Secretary knew it too. By May, the alarm bells were ringing—the Danny Alexander: I am not going to give way again. danger was real. Whether one wants an expansive social These figures will be for Departments to set out. policy, a smaller state, or more or less public spending, it must be underpinned by proper control of the public Several hon. Members rose— finances. If that control is lost, the policies that have been built, whatever they are, will inevitably crumble. Danny Alexander: I am going to press on and make some progress. I will take further interventions later, but Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The Chief Secretary I answered the point that the shadow Chief Secretary said that to be taken seriously one needs to have a made. credible and detailed plan. He then went on to say that the Government have laid out their plans in detail, so Rising interest rates choke the finances of those who perhaps he can give us some of that detail. Which borrow, and rising inflation bites on those on fixed Revenue offices will shut? Where will the Department incomes. It was the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy for Work and Pensions closures be? Among the 35,000 and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) who once observed: Ministry of Defence civilians, where will the jobs be “Public finances must be sustainable over the long term. If lost? Will he give us the detail in the same way as when they are not, the poor…will suffer most.”—[Official Report, the spending plans in the 2004 and 2007 CSRs were 2 July 1997; Vol. 297, c. 303-304.] announced? For once, I agree with Gordon. Those who say that there is a choice between fiscal discipline and supporting Danny Alexander: There is a great deal of detail in the growth could not be further from the truth. The choice spending review document, as the hon. Gentleman knows is between a sound platform to support growth and a because he has had a chance to study it, and of course lack of control that would undermine it. In reality, it is Departments will set out more detail in due course. He no choice at all. would have a bit more credibility on the subject of controlling the public finances if his colleagues in the Gordon Banks rose— European Parliament had not just voted for the 6% rise in the European Union budgets. Ms Angela Eagle rose— Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): Is the Chief Secretary Danny Alexander: I am going to press on with this aware that the 2007 CSR called for £35 billion in cuts, section of my speech, and then I will give way in a and that in July 2010 the National Audit Office could moment. find only £6 billion that had been achieved? Does he agree that the failure of the last spending review makes In June’s emergency Budget, we set out the road map this one much more difficult? to recovery and took the country out of the danger zone. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility Danny Alexander: My hon. Friend makes a very examined our plans in June and forecast the economy important point. The NAO has indeed criticised the growing and unemployment falling in every year. It also effectiveness of the previous Government’s so-called assessed that we were on course to eliminate the structural efficiency programme. Many of those criticisms are well current deficit and see debt fall by the end of this founded, and we will proceed on a very different basis. Parliament, one year ahead of our mandate. The recovery To give an example, the single indicator that they set out will be choppy, but we are confident that our plan will for local authorities to report on their own efficiencies see us through. had 66 pages of guidance for them to follow, thereby creating a huge industry in local authorities just to meet Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Does the reporting requirements. the Chief Secretary accept that he is introducing a benefit system based on punishment? Does he agree Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): The right hon. that anyone out of work for more than a year will now Gentleman has been talking about detail, and there is lose 10% of their housing benefit? That is punishment. one detail that I am interested in. There was a leak from What advice would he give to my constituent in Brighton the Ministry of Justice demonstrating that it has set who has gone for 465 jobs over the past 10 months aside £230 million to pay for the redundancies that it without success? 503 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 504

Danny Alexander: I do not accept that. We have to Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): In control the welfare bill, which has risen dramatically 2007-08, the UK debt stood at 36.5% of GDP. In 1997, over the past few years. I will come to that later in my at the end of the last Tory Government, it was 42%. Does speech. that fact not expose as meaningless spin the Government’s line on the record of the Labour Government? Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): It is inevitable, of course, that individual Departments Danny Alexander: I think that that is a classic statement will have to set out the costs of redundancies, and it is of deficit denial. The hon. Lady has to recognise that right that they should do so in due course. However, will we are spending £150 billion more than we raise in my right hon. Friend set out how much extra interest tax—the largest budget deficit in the European Union the Government would have to pay, and therefore how and the largest in our country’s history. much more public spending would have to be cut in future, if we did not start to make such economies now? Angela Smith: Will the Chief Secretary give way?

Danny Alexander: My hon. Friend asks a very good Danny Alexander: I will not. question. Over the course of the spending review period, We also have the largest budget deficit in the G20. our plans will save £5 billion in debt interest, which the Those are the facts that the hon. Lady should understand. Labour party was very happy to pay. Angela Smith: Will the Chief Secretary give way? Ms Angela Eagle rose— Danny Alexander: I will not give way again, I am Danny Alexander: I will give way one more time, then going to press on. I will press on. The Chancellor’s statement set out the level of departmental spending for the next four years. I will not Ms Eagle: I thank the right hon. Gentleman. We know repeat every decision now, but of course I am happy to that he will know the answer to this question. He has set take interventions. [HON.MEMBERS: “You’re not!”] I out a plan that will lead directly to 490,000 people have taken a great deal of interventions, and I will take losing their jobs in the public sector. We know that the a few more later. Instead, I want to focus on our Ministry of Justice has already made an allowance of priorities: growth, fairness and reform. £230 million to cover the cost of redundancies. He must have a figure for the rest of Whitehall put together, and Gordon Banks rose— he should now give it to us. Danny Alexander: I give way to the hon. Gentleman. Danny Alexander: The hon. Lady is the shadow Chief Secretary, and we read in a memo directed to the Leader Gordon Banks: I am very grateful to the Chief Secretary of the Opposition that the Opposition had a plan for for finally seeing me up at the back here. One of the £44 billion of cuts, but she has not set out a single piece words that he mentioned was growth. How can we have of detail on that. As I said, Departments will set out growth when 1 million people are being put on the dole? their work force plans in due course. The previous Government’s plan was not a serious Danny Alexander: How could I miss the hon. Gentleman? plan to deal with the deficit and support growth. It was I will explain the answer to his question as I make not a fair approach. It would have led to more, not progress in my speech. He will just have to listen carefully. fewer, cuts in the end, because of higher debt and higher Our priorities—growth, fairness and reform—guide every interest payments—more interest on the debt, and more choice that we make. We are a pro-growth Government, interest on the interest. Compared with the plans that focusing our capital resources on key infrastructure we inherited, we will save £5 billion in debt interest projects in transport and green energy. payments over the course of this Parliament. The emergency Budget set out our plan to balance David Wright (Telford) (Lab) rose— the books, and now we have shown how we will find £81 billion of savings by 2014-15. Let me put that in Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab) rose— some context. Even at the end of that period, public spending as a share of gross domestic product will Danny Alexander: I will not give way at the moment. be 41%. We are a Government with fairness at our core, and a reforming Government who leave no stone unturned in Several hon. Members rose— the search for waste, while devolving power and funding away from Whitehall. In answer to the hon. Member for Danny Alexander: I will give way at the end of this Ochil and South Perthshire (Gordon Banks), I will section of my speech. address our priorities in turn, and the first is growth. That 41% figure is about the same level as in 2006-07, It is growth that will deliver additional jobs in the and the same level in real terms as in 2008. It is higher economy across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern than in any year of Tony Blair’s Government. Perhaps Ireland. I have said that our plan as a whole will deliver that is why he supports our strategy. That is not to say macro-economic stability, which is crucial to restore that cuts will be easy—of course they will not—but it growth and increase confidence to invest. We are not nails the myth that we are an ideological Government, standing on the sidelines waiting for growth to happen. hell-bent on shrinking the state out of recognition. We have prioritised spending on the areas that can 505 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 506

[Danny Alexander] Danny Alexander: Not for a moment. I am going to press on with my speech. I know that many hon. Members deliver the best return to growth. Over the spending wish to contribute, and the Back-Bench time limit is review period, capital spending will be slightly higher already at six minutes, so I will make some progress, if than the previous Government planned, with significant Imay. investment in transport capital across the country and Our second priority is fairness, and let me say what I more cash being spent on transport over the next four think that means. Fairness means that across the entire years than in the past four. We will maintain in cash deficit reduction plan, those with the broadest shoulders terms resource spending on science, and a new green should bear the greatest share of the burden. investment bank will lead the way in the economy of the future. Today we published our local growth White Paper, which includes a regional growth fund of £1.4 billion Several hon. Members rose— over three years and announces new local enterprise partnerships. Those actions and many others are major Danny Alexander: Fairness means that even in tough parts of our strategy to secure and support sustainable times, we focus our resources on extending the ladder of economic growth. opportunity through early years provision and schools, and it means that we look carefully at whether we are John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): doing right by those who receive welfare and the working The right hon. Gentleman’s speech so far has shown families whose taxes pay for it. Those are our tests and that he is sticking to the outlandish predictions of we have met them in full. First, we have published growth levels that he has made, and of unemployment distributional analyses that clearly demonstrate that falling year on year as a result. Will he reassure the those on the highest incomes will contribute more towards House and the country that if they prove wrong, he will the consolidation. [Interruption.] That is not just in change course, and quickly? cash terms, but—

Danny Alexander: Outlandish predictions by politicians Several hon. Members rose— were the prerogative of the previous Government. We have established an independent Office for Budget Responsibility to make forecasts. We do not make the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. The forecasts, and I am merely quoting what the OBR had right hon. Gentleman is giving way, but will hon. Members to say. please take their seats when he does not?

Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): Does my right hon. Danny Alexander: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Friend agree that the biggest risk to our economy is the As I was saying, we have published distributional analyses record deficit of 10% of GDP, the highest in the G20? that clearly demonstrate that those on the highest incomes Had we not taken action, that would have posed a big will contribute more towards the consolidation, not just risk and we would have lost more than 490,000 jobs. in cash terms but as a proportion of their income and Opposition Members should think about the jobs that consumption of public services. we would have lost had the Government not taken decisive action. Mr Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West) (Lab): I Danny Alexander: I agree wholeheartedly with my am grateful to the Chief Secretary for giving way. So far, hon. Friend. If we had not tackled the deficit, the poor he seems bereft of answers to any of the questions put in this country would have suffered most. to him. Does he agree with the Institute for Fiscal Studies’ analysis that the June Budget and last week’s spending review can be fair only if the Government Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Will the include all the measures that I introduced in my Budget Chief Secretary give way? prior to the election? Danny Alexander: I will give way to the hon. Lady, and then I will press on. Danny Alexander: I think that the phrase “no answers” applies to Opposition Front Benchers on dealing with Helen Goodman: I am grateful. The Chief Secretary the deficit. has pointed to the forecasts made by the OBR. He will The measures included in our analyses include measures know that between 1994 and 2008, the private sector for which we will introduce legislation, such as the created 100,000 jobs a year. In that period, growth was measures on national insurance. Those measures are 2.8%. The OBR projects growth of 2.4%. How, then, is part of our plan and it is perfectly appropriate that they it possible that 1 million jobs can be created in the should be included. forthcoming period? Several hon. Members rose— Danny Alexander: In fact the OBR forecast more private sector jobs than the hon. Lady suggests. She will know that in the past two quarters several hundred Danny Alexander: I am going to press on and answer thousand jobs have been created in the private sector. I this point. I shall give way in a moment. will explain later in my speech the measures that we are The right hon. Gentleman talked about our analyses taking to support the private sector. counting measures proposed but not yet introduced by the previous Government. I have to tell him that the Mrs Moon: Will the Chief Secretary give way? measures are as much a part of our plan as any others 507 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 508 we have introduced. We took the decision to proceed simply dumped on benefits by previous Administrations with them. However, I am glad to say that some of the and left there. That is not fair on them or the taxpayer. measures proposed by the previous Government did No one can deny that reform is essential, but the not make it into our final analysis. We rejected the jobs question is how the right balance should be struck. tax—[Interruption.] They do not like it! We rejected Our approach is to move to a universal credit system cuts to the overall NHS budget and we rejected the idea over the course of two Parliaments to do away with the of burdening future generations with debt. They were complexity of the current system so that it always pays wrong and they were stopped. to work. We will introduce a new work programme to Our progressive approach also places responsibility provide personalised support to those who need the on the banks to make their fair contribution. We will greatest help with getting back into employment, with continue to press banks to do more and to bring forward private and third-sector providers being paid for the reforms to improve our financial system. That is why we additional benefit savings they secure. We will fund introduced the bank levy. The previous Government significant above-indexation increases for the child tax stalled on that, saying that we would need international credit to ensure that the spending review has no measurable agreement first, but we went ahead with it. As the banks impact on child poverty over the next two years. Through need to follow the spirit and not just the letter of the the welfare reforms in the spending review, we will find law, we have engaged in a concerted effort to get the £7 billion of net savings on top of those identified in the leading banks to sign up to the code of practice on Budget. Some £2.5 billion comes from removing child taxation by the end of November. We must ensure that benefit from households with a higher-rate taxpayer. everyone, no matter how rich, pays the taxes they owe. That is the largest welfare measure in the spending That is why we have agreed a new £900 million package review and the most progressive, but it is the one that for HMRC. That investment will fund a clampdown, the Opposition have most vocally opposed. bringing in £7 billion a year by the end of the Parliament. Ms Angela Eagle: I thank the right hon. Gentleman Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): for giving way on that point. There are press reports out On banks and fairness, will the Minister confirm that on the wires that a source in Her Majesty’s Treasury is families with children are being asked to contribute saying that the child benefit cut is “unenforceable” and twice as much to deficit reduction as the banks? How is will be dropped. The press report says that it is that fair? “panic stations in the Treasury.” Is that true? Danny Alexander: No, I will not confirm that. We have made many spending choices to invest additional Danny Alexander: I think it is panic stations on the resources in families with children—a pupil premium in Opposition Front Bench if they do not have a single the schools system and an entitlement to 15 hours of answer to a single question about the action that they free nursery care for two-year-olds in addition to the would take to reduce the deficit. The story that the 15-hour entitlement for three and four-year-olds that measure is unenforceable is nonsense; it will be introduced we introduced. as planned. The savings were signed off by the Office Our clampdown on tax avoidance will bring in for Budget Responsibility, which considered the compliance £7 billion a year by the end of the Parliament, because risk involved as well. Higher-rate taxpayers are of course there is no place for tax cheats in our society—neither is required to disclose all relevant information. there a place for people who cheat the benefit system. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work Ian Austin: The Minister’s whole plan is based on two and Pensions has introduced new plans to tackle benefit things: achieving, first, the biggest rate of export since fraud. 1974 and, secondly, a rise in business investment that has been matched only once in our history. Achieving Several hon. Members rose— both those things in the same year would be unprecedented, but the Government want to achieve both every year for Danny Alexander: I shall get to the end of this section three years on the trot. I know that the Chancellor and on welfare before giving way, so hon. Members should the Prime Minister do not live in the same world as the stop troubling themselves. rest of us, but where did they dream that up—fantasy island? On welfare— Danny Alexander: I had planned to give way a few Several hon. Members rose— more times, but that intervention took so long that there will not be time to take any more for a while. The Danny Alexander: I shall give way at the end of the spending review is based on one simple principle: cleaning section on welfare because I know it is of interest to up the mess left behind by the Government of whom many hon. Members, but let me explain our position. the hon. Gentleman was part. The welfare budget accounts for nearly £1 in every £3 We are making other welfare reforms too. We will cap spent by the Government. The cost of the welfare household welfare payments at the average earnings of system has increased by 45% in the past decade. In some working households and we will reform housing benefit cases, those increases were necessary—it is right that the so that support better reflects the housing choices that Government should help those who need it most—but working families have to make. That must be right. The in many cases the previous Administration’s over- welfare system should provide an effective safety net, complicated bureaucracy trapped people in a system in but it should not pay workless families far more than which it does not pay to work. Worse still, many were most working families earn. That is where benefit traps 509 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 510

[Danny Alexander] Danny Alexander: I will give way to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey), then I will and dependency start. Our reforms mark an historic press on. shift from dependency to independence. Our measures are tough but fair. Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): The House has waited in vain for a straight answer to a Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Does the straight question. I know the right hon. Gentleman Minister accept that housing benefit is also an in-work would like to take credit for the sun shining, and indeed benefit? The Government have presented very little for the imprint on the Turin shroud, but will he give a evidence that out-of-work families who receive housing straight answer to the straight question asked by my benefit live in significantly better conditions than any right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South working family. (Mr Darling), the former Chancellor of the Exchequer? Is it true or untrue that the growth in the first three Danny Alexander: The cap that we propose, which quarters of 2010 is a direct result of the measures taken will be debated in due course, is nearly £21,000-worth a by the previous Government to build Britain out of year of housing benefit. That is more than equivalent to recession? what most working families have to spend on their housing costs. Danny Alexander: The last quarter of growth— Opposition Members were hoping that things would be worse than they are, which is a pretty poor foundation Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): Does the for any sort of economic policy—took place since the Minister think it fair that his, my and other constituents Budget. [Interruption.] Of course the previous Chancellor should pay so that some people can live in houses deserves credit for that much of his work in office— costing £500, £600 or more a week? [Interruption.]

Danny Alexander: No, I do not think it is fair. Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. A lot of Members want to speak in this debate, and this disorderliness is doing Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): I have one simple question: us no good. will he confirm that the majority of people on housing benefit are in work? Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the Chief Danny Alexander: Yes;many people on housing benefit Secretary to accuse Opposition Members without any are in work. The point of our reform is to say that the evidence whatever of wishing for lower growth to put fairness should be between people on out-of-work housing people out of work? That is what the Government are benefit gaining the maximum amount, which we will doing, not the Opposition. cap at £400 a week, so that that amount is equivalent to what people in work could receive in housing benefit. Mr Deputy Speaker: That is not a point of order, as the hon. Lady knows. Several hon. Members rose— Danny Alexander: Finally, reform means recognising Danny Alexander: I want to press on, so I shall not that the old ways of doing things were not working. give way. Several hon. Members rose— Our third principle is reform, which manifests itself in three ways. The first is bearing down on back-office costs. Each main Government Department has found at Danny Alexander: No, I will not give way. least 33% in administrative savings: we will share services, The old ways of doing things were not working even cut down on waste and abolish quangos. The second is in times of plenty, so we will revamp the failing system a massive devolution of power from the centre, reflecting of social housing. The number of socially rented properties our commitment to freedom and responsibility. Apart fell under the previous Government in total, with an from with schools and public health, we will end the increasing proportion of workless households finding ring-fencing of all Government grants to local authorities themselves trapped in dependency. The terms of existing from April next year. We will reduce 90 separate core tenants and their rent levels remain unchanged under revenue grants to councils to fewer than 10. Under the our proposals. Some new tenants will be offered previous Administration, the comparable number of intermediate rents nearer to market rent. grants increased by more than 500%. Our new tax increment financing borrowing powers will allow councils Several hon. Members rose— to fund key projects, and we have today announced that we will consider options to enable local authorities to Danny Alexander: I am not going to give way because retain locally raised business rates. We are putting the many hon. Members wish to speak. local and government back into local government. Together with capital investment, those measures will Finally, reform means recognising that the old ways create a more flexible and responsive model, enabling of doing things simply were not working, even in times the Government to deliver up to 150,000 new affordable of plenty. homes over the next four years.

Several hon. Members rose— Several hon. Members rose— 511 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 512

Danny Alexander: No, I am not going to give way. Danny Alexander: If the hon. Lady was listening to There will be reform, too, in the justice system. A me earlier, she would know that we have announced prison population that is rising out of control is not significant additional investment for HMRC to tackle right, let alone affordable. The guilty must be punished, tax avoidance and tax evasion. Of course, every Minister but rehabilitation must be the priority. should comply with tax law. There are major reforms in other policy areas. Across all that we do, reform is the keystone to delivering Several hon. Members rose— better for less. Danny Alexander: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I thank the sitting next to the hon. Member for Warrington North. Government for their work in rescuing savers in the Presbyterian Mutual Society in Northern Ireland; they are very grateful. The Government have built on the Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Does the right work of the previous one, but they have brought a hon. Gentleman accept that the localised hotspots he solution to fruition. However, may I remind him of the mentioned, where the cumulative impact of his measures agreement—the settlement—that was made at the time will take the most drastic and tragic effect, include of devolution for Northern Ireland? Will he look at that Wales, the north-east and other areas that either rely again to ensure that the challenges unique to Northern heavily on public sector workers as a proportion of the Ireland are faced with confidence? work force or where the benefits reforms will have a significant impact? Does he also accept that he will be Danny Alexander: I am grateful for the right hon. judged in 12 or 36 months or five years of this Parliament Gentleman’s intervention—my hon. Friend the Financial on whether the north-east, Wales and elsewhere are Secretary, who did a great deal of work on that issue, disproportionately and tragically affected by the cumulative will have heard his compliments. I believe that we will impact of the measures he is ramming through? introduce a growth paper on Northern Ireland soon, and the right hon. Gentleman’s points on that are very Danny Alexander: Of course I accept that people will important. I know that questions have been asked, for judge the Government’s performance on the basis he example, on capital spending between June 2005 and suggests. I fully understand that, which is why I am 2018. We believe that we are on track to meet those spelling out the measures we are taking to ensure that commitments, which were made some years ago. those areas that are most affected are supported through the regional growth fund. His point is important and Several hon. Members rose— serious, but I observe only that the previous Government created the mess of the Budget deficit. We have to clean Danny Alexander: I am not going to give way. up the problems facing our economy. The worst thing The spending review will have an impact on the possible for Wales or other parts of the country would public sector workforce. I should like to say that the be to leave the deficit untackled, which would lead to ideas, effort and commitment shown by the public lower growth, higher interest rates and less employment. sector workforce are essential to helping people to get the best from the services they provide, and we should thank them. The reforms that we are making will make Huw Irranca-Davies rose— the public services a more rewarding place to work—more power, more trust, more independence—but there will Danny Alexander: I will not give way again to the be an impact on employment. The best estimate remains hon. Gentleman; I shall press on. that of the Office for Budget Responsibility, to which Also in June, the OBR forecast total jobs in the hon. Members have referred, which forecast in June a economy over the next four years, which Opposition reduction of 490,000 employees over the next four years. Members seem to have missed. It implies 1.6 million Natural turnover will play a big part, but individual additional private sector jobs over the period. We will employers will make their own decisions on redundancies. do all that we can to help those leaving the public sector Each such decision will be difficult, which we recognise, to take advantage of those opportunities, and we must so we have introduced pay restraint to protect jobs. We remember at all times that the gravest threat to jobs in will monitor plans closely to try to avoid localised our economy would be a failure to deal with the deficit. hotspots, and deploy our regional growth fund to support Deficit denial is the single biggest danger to employment such areas. in this country today. Several hon. Members rose— Throughout the review, I have been clear on one thing: our decisions need to improve life chances. Fairness Danny Alexander: I will give way to the hon. Member is not just the net sum of cash transfers. That is important, for Warrington North (Helen Jones). but there is more. Fairness is about opportunity and the chance for a better future, especially for the next generation. Helen Jones: The Chief Secretary is proposing to We know about the attainment gap between children make many public sector workers redundant. Given from different backgrounds, which starts at an early age. that, why is it considered fair for others to have money In these difficult times, perhaps no one would have in tax avoidance trusts based overseas? Considering the noticed had we quietly turned a blind eye, but fairness strategies he is introducing, will he give a commitment demands more, so we have chosen to invest. That is why that no Minister in the Government has or will have we have introduced a new pledge for 15 hours’ child care money based in overseas trusts designed to avoid paying for disadvantaged two-year-olds, matching the 15-hour their fair share of British tax? commitment for all three and four-year-olds that was 513 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 514

[Danny Alexander] How can we achieve more with less?” We have made the right choices for the right reasons. We have given our previously introduced by this coalition Government. answers: now let us hear the Opposition’s. Cash spending on Sure Start services will be maintained, with a renewed focus on life chances. Although this has 1.51 pm meant a greater challenge for other Departments, I am proud that the schools budget will not only match but Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Last week’s outstrip inflation in each of the next four years. When comprehensive spending review statement has taken a we factor in reduced pressure from pay restraint and huge and risky gamble with the jobs and future prosperity back-office savings, that amounts to a very significant of millions of people in this country. This wholly boost to the classroom. A new £2.5 billion pupil premium unnecessary risk has been taken because this Conservative- will target additional resources on those with the most led Government is in ideological thrall to the discredited to gain. economic mantra that shrinking the state is always the We will be relentless in our focus on social mobility, right answer. They do not state it as provocatively as and in extending the ladder of opportunity. Fairness Mrs Thatcher once did in the 1980s, but they believe it runs through the heart of this spending review. just as firmly. The Orange Book Liberal Democrats, led by the Deputy Prime Minister with the Chief Secretary Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): We all accept that in tow, believe it too. those are very difficult decisions. However, the chairman Of course, the deficit has to be brought down—[HON. of the Police Federation has suggested that 40,000 police MEMBERS: “Ah!”] We said that before the election and service jobs will be lost because cuts to the Home Office we set out a plan to do so. We also said it at the election budget. Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that if and we have said it since. The difference between us is that happens, crime will rise? how the deficit is brought down. My right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor has made it clear that we favour Danny Alexander: I do not accept that analysis. Of a different balance between spending cuts and tax rises course, it will be for individual police forces in due that brings the deficit down but also protects the recovery course to make their own decisions—[Interruption]—but and boosts growth. None of us should forget the backdrop given the potential for police forces to become more to this spending review, which is families up and down efficient, we think that there is no reason why those the country worried about their jobs and homes. That is savings should have any impact at all on the presence of why the cheers and mass waving of Order Papers on the police on the front line in communities. Government Benches as the Chancellor announced the largest job cuts for generations demonstrate just how Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East out of touch they are. At that very moment at the end of Cleveland) (Lab): On the policy to give two-year-olds his speech, the masks slipped and we saw what really 15 hours of education based on free school meal eligibility, motivates them. As these cuts begin to bite, the British what mechanism will be used and how much will it cost public will not forget. to ensure that that happens, given that there is no information about two-year-olds receiving free school Mr Redwood: Given that between 250,000 and 500,000 meals? I have asked Ministers that question twice, but people leave the public service every year voluntarily, I still have not had an answer. for retirement or other reasons, will the hon. Lady now withdraw her statement that half a million people will lose their jobs under this Government? It can be done Danny Alexander: That is a very good question. I by natural wastage. imagine that the hon. Gentleman intended to preface his question by saying that he welcomed the commitment Ms Eagle: That is not my statement: it is a statement to additional nursery education for the poorest two-year- by the Office for Budget Responsibility. It is also the olds. There are many mechanisms available, for example figure that was revealed accidentally the day before the within the Sure Start system, that can target those Chancellor’s statement by the Chief Secretary when he pupils, and the Secretary of State for Education will no was filmed in the back of his car with open documents. doubt make announcements in due course. It is not my figure. The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) should remember that the Ministry of Several hon. Members rose— Justice is already planning 14,000 redundancies, as we know from a leak, and has set aside— Danny Alexander: I now intend to finish my speech with no further interruptions. Matthew Hancock: Will the hon. Lady give way? I am often asked about a plan B. Plan A is to deal with the deficit so that we can support growth and Ms Eagle: No, I shall finish answering the question. invest in fairness. But we all know that the recovery will The hon. Gentleman can sit down and be patient, and be choppy, so plan B is to deal with the deficit so that we we will see whether I give way to him a little later. can support growth and invest in fairness. But we know The Ministry of Justice is already planning cuts of that the road will be difficult, so plan C is to deal with 14,000 in front-line staffing. It has also set aside £230 million the deficit so that we can support growth and invest in to pay for the costs of those redundancies. I asked the fairness. Nothing is more important to our future prosperity. Chief Secretary what the figure was for the rest of One party made this mess. Two parties are working Whitehall. He will know what that figure is, because he together to clear it up. We will hold firm. Where we have will have signed it off. Twice I asked him for that figure, faced tough choices we have asked, “What are the fair and twice he avoided the question. It does him no credit choices? What are the choices that support growth? if, knowing what that figure is, he comes to this House 515 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 516 for a debate on the comprehensive spending review but Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): Does the hon. avoids the question of the costs to the public purse of Lady agree that it is a basic principle that spending the redundancies that will be directly caused by the money we do not have does not create long-term jobs? statement made by the Chancellor last week. He knows It creates nothing but debt, which has to be paid back. that figure and he should stand up now and give it to That is what the Government are doing now. That is the House. Silence is sometimes far more revealing than what we need to do. an answer. Ms Eagle: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will agree Ian Swales: The hon. Lady referred to the number of that in an advanced economy with a social security job losses mentioned in the comprehensive spending system, if there is a recession, deficits will rise. That is review. Can she tell us how many job losses were involved why the deficit rose. What he suggests, if taken to its in her alternative plans? logical extreme, means that he would not be in favour of paying unemployment benefit to those made unemployed. Ms Eagle: The key point about our approach to the They tried that in the 1930s and it did not work. difficulties in the world economy was that we spent and invested money to keep people in work. We know that Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): What does the the cost of every 100,000 people on the dole is half a hon. Lady think was the reason behind our deficit being billion pounds. The difference between us and the worse than that of every other country in the G20? Government is that we were keeping people in work whereas they are taking people out of work. We know Ms Eagle: We entered the crisis with the second-lowest from PricewaterhouseCoopers that half a million jobs deficit in the G7. We were affected by the credit crunch in the private sector that are directly connected to because we have a very large financial services sector, public sector contracts will also be lost as a result of the which is why both sides in the House are talking about Chancellor’s statement last week. how we can rebalance our economy. We are too exposed to the kind of risks that crystallised when the credit Angela Smith: Is it not the case that the stimulus put crunch struck. [Interruption.] The Chancellor, from a into the economy by the Labour Government saved sedentary position, asks whose fault that was. If we are more than 200,000 jobs? going to be sensible and have a proper, nuanced, balanced and grown-up debate on this issue, all of us—as members of political parties that are, or have been, in government Ms Eagle: Yes, according to the OBR. We saw the and in charge of running the country over the past few undisguised glee of Members opposite as they celebrated years—need to take our fair share of responsibility for the hardship and misery that the Chancellor proposes how the banking sector came to dominate too much. to inflict on so many people in our society. These are Both sides of the House have to learn those lessons. I not just numbers; they are police constables, care workers, hope that we all will. teaching assistants and dinner ladies. In the private sector, they work in small businesses which rely on public sector contracts at a time when order books are Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Does the hon. empty. All those people are being asked by this Lady agree that it has been down to this Government to Conservative-led Government to shoulder the burden introduce the bank levy of £2.5 billion, and that the of a crisis made in the banks and the dealing rooms. Labour party, when in government, failed to do so? Why did they fail to do so?

Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Will Ms Eagle: We introduced the bonus tax, which the we hear anything concrete from the Opposition today Conservative party opposed and which raised £3.5 billion. about their alternative proposals? We have said that we need to consider how to ensure that the banks shoulder their fair share of the burden in Ms Eagle: Well, the hon. Gentleman could take a ensuring that the deficit is reduced in a sensible way. look at the March Budget, which was presented to the House before the general election, and the Red Book Mrs Moon: Does my hon. Friend agree that it is that was published subsequently. We went into the depressing to see the huge ranks of men opposite talking election with far more detail about what we would do about cuts that will affect—[Interruption.] Yet again, had we been re-elected than either party opposite. And there are very few Conservative women. The one or two at least we did not flip-flop immediately afterwards so ladies opposite waving and shaking their papers at me that we could get into government. do not help. The majority of Conservative Members, as These are not just numbers; they are the people being always, are men, but the majority of people to be asked by this Conservative-led Government to shoulder affected by the cuts will be women. It is women who will the burden of a crisis that was made in the banks. It is lose their child benefit and the tax credits that help not those who caused the crisis who will now suffer as a them get into work, and it is women, largely, who work result of the Chancellor’s reckless gamble with jobs and in the public sector and rely on its excellent flexible growth. It is the 490,000 ordinary men and women working conditions. Is it women who will find it harder serving in the public sector whose jobs will go, and to get into work, thanks to the Government’s policies? it is the 500,000 jobs in the private sector that PricewaterhouseCoopers has calculated will also be lost Ms Eagle: I do not suppose it is their fault they are as a direct result of the spending review. Redundancies men. I can blame them for some things, but not that. on the scale now threatened are not inevitable, but are My hon. Friend makes a perfectly fair point though. It the result of the Government’s choice to cut further is clear that 65% of those who work in public services and faster. are women, that 75% of those who work in local 517 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 518

[Ms Angela Eagle] Sajid Javid: The hon. Lady is fond of saying, “Let’s have a grown-up, sensible debate”, so it would be useful government are women and that there are even higher if she followed her own rules. Why is she refusing to give levels working in the health service and social care. way to my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk Clearly, they are on the front line, and the Government (Matthew Hancock)? have a legal duty, which it is not clear that they have fulfilled, to take reasonable account of that fact. Ms Eagle: There we see it—the old boys’ network writ large. They stick together, don’t they? Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Has the hon. Lady met people trapped on benefits, many of whom, Matthew Hancock rose— incidentally, are women? The failure to address the perverse incentives operating in our benefits system was Ms Eagle: Go on then. utterly spineless and ignored the real misery affecting those who live trapped in our benefits system. Hon. Members: Hooray!

Ms Eagle: The hon. Lady’s intervention was extremely Matthew Hancock: I am very grateful to the hon. helpful. Of course I have. We have all done a great deal Lady for plucking up the courage to give way. She said of work on social security reform, and I hope she will be that Britain went into the crisis with the second lowest the first to acknowledge some of the progress we made, deficit in the world, but she has now revised that to particularly in helping lone parents into work. Tax point out that, actually, it was the second lowest debt in credits and all the support we gave on child care were the world. Does not the fact that she and her colleagues among the measures that were crucial in ensuring that muddle up the debt and the deficit show just why we are we managed to increase significantly the number of in this mess? lone parents in work when we were in office. I hope she will be the first to recognise our success in those areas. Ms Eagle: Whatever happened to old-fashioned courtesy? She should take a close look at the increasing rates of The hon. Gentleman should ask himself why I do not marginal tax that came about because of some of the want to give way to him when he is so generous and changes, particularly for lone parents, and the savings lovely to me when I do. made in tax credits, and she should also have a word with her party’s Front-Bench team about their priorities Money spent on infrastructure investment kept the for cuts, given that they are taking away benefits that construction sector going. As we saw from the GDP particularly help women go out to work. figures on Wednesday, that is still having a positive effect. The deficit was unavoidable. It was vital to support In softening up the country for this age of austerity, people and businesses through tough times, but let us be Ministers have been anxious to establish some myths, clear about Labour’s spending before the crisis hit. Far the first of which is that the deficit was a Labour from being too high, it was, as the Prime Minister spending choice. We heard a lot of that today from the said—I am quoting him directly—“really quite tough”, Chief Secretary to the Treasury. The second myth is while the Chancellor was urging us to spend more. that the cuts announced are unavoidable. We need to start with some facts. When the credit crunch struck in The second myth is that the scale of the cuts is 2008, Britain had the second-lowest debt in the G7. We unavoidable. As my right hon. Friend the shadow had low interest rates, low inflation and low unemployment. Chancellor has pointed out, Government propaganda There is nothing reckless about that. Now, however, the has got it precisely the wrong way round. The fact is Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats are trying that the deficit was unavoidable; it is the June Budget to rewrite history. and the Chancellor’s spending review that are a political choice. They are not only avoidable, they are downright dangerous. That is why there was no mention of these Matthew Hancock: Will the hon. Lady give way? supposedly unavoidable cuts in the manifestos of either of the parties now in government when they went to the Ms Eagle: No. country. That is why they have no mandate for the cuts Public spending did not cause this deficit—the global policy that they have embarked on since the general financial crisis caused it. A large deficit is what we get election. when the largest financial crisis since the war hits. When Since the election, we have seen the contortions of companies’ profits are hit, tax revenues fall. the Deputy Prime Minister, along with his accomplice in what we now have to call the “quad”, to justify his Matthew Hancock: Will the hon. Lady give way? volte-face. First he told us that he took a call from the Governor of the Bank of England as he stepped into Ms Eagle: I said no. the ministerial Jag, but the Governor begged to differ. When families have to work shorter hours, they pay Then the Deputy Prime Minister said that Britain was less tax. We took a conscious decision to spend money about to become Greece. That is about as close to a to keep people in their jobs and homes, and I am proud myth as you can get, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Government that we did that. As a result of our action, unemployment have made their choice, and we on the Opposition was half what it had been in previous recessions and Benches will hold them responsible for the social and repossession levels were also half what they were in the economic consequences of those choices. Tory recession of the 1990s. Some of this help has been cut away in the CSR and, as a result, it is more likely Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): Has my hon. that more people will lose their homes, as unemployment Friend noticed the tendency of those on the Government and the cuts begin to bite. Benches, and in particular the Chief Secretary and the 519 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 520

Chancellor, when referring to the history of the economy Mr Ruffley: I am most grateful to the hon. Lady, this year, to say that we were on the brink of bankruptcy although I am afraid that I will not be lovely and fluffy, as a country? Did she, like me, notice Lord Turnbull’s or whatever it was she said she wished my hon. Friend appearance before the Treasury Committee this morning, the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) was. when he clearly said that this country was not on the Is she aware that on 18 October, 35 leading businessmen brink of bankruptcy and that there was no risk of a wrote a joint letter stating that delay would cost this sovereign debt crisis? country an extra £100 billion alone in the course of this Parliament? Are they all wrong? Ms Eagle: It is quite extraordinary that we have a Ms Eagle: I would not expect the hon. Gentleman to Chancellor who is prepared to make such alarmist be fluffy—that is not a word that I would ever have statements from the Treasury. He does it for political, associated with him—but it is still good to see him not economic, reasons, and it is a disgrace that he back, and I genuinely welcome his return. It needs to be continues to do it. pointed out that that letter was organised by Lord Wolfson in the House of Lords, via Conservative central office. It is also interesting to note that some of the Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): Will the hon. Lady signatories of the letter have some kind of vested interest. take this opportunity to pay tribute to British business, First, quite a few are Conservatives. Secondly, BT, for which has created hundreds of thousands of jobs since example, has cut 20,000 jobs in the past year, which is this Government started taking the tough decisions that not exactly helping us to replace public sector jobs with she flunked? private sector jobs. Others are responsible for outsourcing and stand to make direct gains from the shrinking of Ms Eagle: I am certainly more than happy to pay the state. The hon. Gentleman can believe that guff if tribute to British business, but I do not connect the first he wants; we do not. part of the hon. Gentleman’s question with the second. The IFS has been scathing about the Treasury’s analysis Last week two more myths were added to the on the fairness front, and on who loses what. It has Chancellor’s own special edition of Grimm’s fairy tales. noted that the Treasury analysis conveniently stops in He now claims that the measures in the spending review 2012-13, thereby excluding £12 billion of the announced are fair, and even that the scale of the cuts would have savings—by which I mean cuts to social security. For been greater under Labour. Let us start with fairness. those who remain in any doubt, let me quote directly Last Wednesday, the Chancellor told us that fairness was from the IFS: “The tax and benefit changes are regressive rather than progressive Official “one of the guiding principles of this spending review”.—[ across most of the income distribution.” Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 955.] The Government’s immediate response to that report Not for the first time, this spin lasted barely 24 hours, by the IFS was to try to shoot the messenger. The before the Institute for Fiscal Studies comprehensively Deputy Prime Minister launched into an attack on the rejected it, proving that, far from the poorest being IFS that bordered on the hysterical. He described its protected, it is the poorest who will bear the brunt of analysis as “distorted” and “complete nonsense”. He the cuts. It is families with children who will pay the neglected to mention the fact that before the election he most. We should not be surprised at that, because the had regularly lauded the IFS when the results of its Institute for Fiscal Studies was scathing of the Treasury’s analysis suited him. On 29 April, as he preened himself analysis of who loses what. during the leaders’ debate, he told us that he was “really delighted at the Institute of Fiscal Studies” Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): How for its view of Liberal Democratic proposals. Now that is it fair that in the time that the hon. Lady has been on he is in government, he does not seem to like the IFS for her feet at the Dispatch Box, we as a country have spent pointing out an inconvenient truth. almost £2 million servicing the interest on the debt A flip-flop here, a U-turn there—it is all in a day’s that has been created? That is £5 million an hour and work for the Liberal Democrats as they shoehorn themselves £120 million a day. What plans do the Opposition have into their new and ill-fitting Tory ideology. It is now to bring that under control? abundantly clear that, for the Deputy Prime Minister, the slight awkwardness of signing up to one of the most unfair decisions for generations will not get in his way, Ms Eagle: I have talked about the importance of even if he occasionally has to struggle with his conscience getting the deficit down, but the hon. Gentleman is on “Desert Island Discs”. I know that he has argued for falling for the idea that the coalition have perpetrated a different, more convenient definition of fairness, but that it is somehow not viable to have a bill that needs to let me tell him that there are some things that are not be paid. People who have mortgages have to pay them fair, however we define them. off over time, and they have to pay interest on them. However, it is not sensible for anyone to deal with their Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I thank my hon. mortgage by paying it off so early that they cannot Friend for the sterling work she is doing here today. We afford to feed their kids in the meantime. have discussed the fact that this is not about fairness, and that women and children will be hit by these Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): Will the measures. Does she recognise this quote from Richard hon. Lady give way? Hawkes, the chief executive of Scope? He says: “Despite the continuing rhetoric that spending cuts will be fair, the Chancellor’s announcements today are anything but. This will Ms Eagle: I am very happy to give way to the hon. hit disabled people and their families particularly hard.” Gentleman; it is great to see him back in the House. Does she believe him, or does she believe Gideon? 521 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 522

Ms Eagle: I think we know who to believe. There is a There has been no commitment to front-line policing great deal of real worry out there about the effects of either. The Police Federation tells us that as many as the draconian cuts in public expenditure that have been 20,000 police will be sacked. The thin blue line has announced in the spending review. become a casualty of the thick red pen. For schools, the I will tell the Deputy Prime Minister and anyone else NHS and the police, there will be no protection for on the Government Benches what they cannot hide front-line services. about fairness. There is nothing fair about cutting 10% from housing benefit for those who are out of work for Tom Brake: Will the hon. Lady give way? more than 12 months when there are already five people chasing every job vacancy—and that is before the Ms Eagle: No. I have given way to the hon. Gentleman Government add another million to the dole queue. before. There is nothing fair about expecting children to play a No priority is to be given to the services that we rely bigger part than the banks in getting the deficit down. on, day to day. That is the choice that the Government There is nothing fair about failing to carry out a legally have made. Let us have a serious debate about the required equality assessment that would have shown differences between us, and let us have no more nonsense that the Budget had a disproportionate impact on women, from the Government about the four myths on which who often do the lowest paid jobs in the public sector. their entire defence of the scale of their cuts is based. When it comes to the cuts under this Government, it Let us hear no more nonsense about the deficit being really is women and children first. Let us have no more the result of the decision of one party or the fault of of these ludicrous claims of fairness from the Government. spending on our public services, rather than the inevitable As for the idea that the Government are cutting less result of a global economic crisis and the greed and than we had planned to do, there is something distasteful recklessness of the banks. in a Chancellor who is prepared to skew his spending decisions, cutting an extra £7 billion from the social Danny Alexander: The right hon. Lady has said that security budget, just to get a cheap one-liner at the end she is opposed to the welfare cuts that we have proposed, of his speech. There is nothing so cynical as a Chancellor opposed to the pupil premium, opposed to the savings who begins his speech by claiming that Britain has been in the Ministry of Justice and opposed to the savings in saved from the brink of bankruptcy by his savage cuts, the Home Office. Can she name one single saving that only to conclude it by claiming that Labour would have she would propose to help to tackle the deficit? cut even more. He knows that he cannot have it both ways, and he knows that he has cut £30 billion more Ms Eagle: I have not said that I am opposed to all the from public expenditure than we planned to do. He changes in the social security budget. My right hon. knows that, in doing this, he has totally failed in his Friend the shadow Chancellor supported some of the pledge to protect the most essential front-line services. changes in welfare spending. Indeed, it was we who It is now clear that his promises are unravelling, and developed them: the Government are putting our changes that there will be a major impact on our schools, our into effect. Let us hear no more of this nonsense about hospitals and the police. the scale of the Government’s cuts being unavoidable, Schools up and down the country are facing cuts in rather than the result of a decision that they made on funding, thanks to a budget settlement that takes no the balance between taxes and public spending cuts. account of rising pupil numbers; and before the Liberal Democrats start getting excited about the pupil premium, Danny Alexander: This really is quite a simple question. I am sorry to have to tell them that the Education Can the hon. Lady name a single cut that she supports? Secretary has now admitted that it is simply a con. In June, the Prime Minister pledged: Ms Eagle: If the Chief Secretary had answered my “We will take money from outside the education budget to questions, I might answer his. [HON.MEMBERS: “Incredible!”] ensure that the pupil premium is well funded”.—[Official Report, What I find incredible is the fact that the right hon. 2 June 2010; Vol. 510, c. 432.] Gentleman has the figures for redundancies and the But at the weekend, the Education Secretary finally costs of redundancies across Whitehall in his books. We came clean and admitted: know what the Ministry of Justice figure is, but he “Some of it comes from within the Department for Education knows what the overall figure is, and he refuses to give it budget, yes.” to the House. That is a disgrace. It is not new funding after all; it is just money being Let us hear no more nonsense about how the spending moved around within the Department to disguise budget cuts that the Government have announced were, as a cuts. result of some magical accounting trick, less than those The IFS calculates that 60% of primary school pupils that we planned when we were in government. The and 87% of secondary school pupils will see a real-terms truth is that this country faced the gravest of economic funding cut to their schools as a result of the new challenges. The truth is that our party, in government, funding formula. We knew that the Liberal Democrats rose to meet that challenge, and averted a catastrophe supported recycling, but we did not realise that this was for our country by making tough decisions to protect what they meant. We were also repeatedly told that jobs and homes in our economy. The truth is that health spending was to be protected, yet £1 billion has whatever party was in government, it would now be been raided from the NHS to make up for some of the making decisions to pay down the deficit. Any party, shortfall caused by the huge cuts in local government including ours, would be having to make tough decisions. spending. With this settlement, the Prime Minister’s It is also true that there is a clear choice in relation to promise of real-terms increases in health spending will what to cut, and the balance between cuts and measures not be met. to bring in revenue. My right hon. Friend the shadow 523 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 524

Chancellor has set out the different approach that we Mr Tyrie: Yes, and public expenditure will be back would be taking, which would protect not only front-line broadly speaking to the level under the last Labour services but jobs, growth and the recovery.The Government, Government prior to the financial crisis. for ideological reasons alone, have used the deficit as a My fourth observation is that the major parties were fig leaf for an assault on our public services of a kind right to conclude that large cuts in public spending were that they had previously only dreamt of. They can talk going to be necessary to stabilise the public finances. of fairness as much as they like; they can spread myths One way of looking at this, which Lord Turnbull alluded as much as they like; but we are not fooled, and, more to this morning, is to work out how much tax has been important, the British public will not be fooled either. forgone as a result of the output lost during the recession. The spending review document sets out the Government’s If one does that calculation, one sees that, broadly choices. Those choices were freely made. What the speaking, around £80 billion of tax has been forgone. Government have presented is their vision of a future The total GDP loss is around £200 billion, of which for our country. What we have seen is not the big society about 40% would have flowed into tax. That suggests but the blueprint for a smaller, meaner and nastier that cuts in spending of about £80 billion are probably society, and we reject it. required. My fifth observation is that the scope for cuts is Several hon. Members rose— probably better now than it was in the 1980s. That retrenchment took place not, as this one is going to, Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Speeches after the longest period of continuous growth for a very are limited to six minutes, and a vast number of Members long time in British history, but after the doleful years wish to speak. We need restraint on the part of all of the 1970s, when there was no growth at all, which Members, and if they can cut their speeches to less than made spending cuts difficult. In addition, absolute levels six minutes, we may get near to the end of the list. of income are much higher now than they were then, meaning that absolute levels of pain will also be reduced 2.28 pm if these cuts are targeted effectively. Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): Six minutes is My sixth observation is that some, but certainly not not a long time in which to respond to such high-octane all, of these cuts are the result of careful longer-term exchanges. I do not intend to add to the highly partisan planning. For example, quite a lot of thought seems to exchanges that we have just heard, but given that the have gone into welfare reform and education. This has Treasury Committee is currently undertaking an inquiry been planned for some years and it probably draws on into the CSR—the largest that has ever been undertaken—I quite a lot of work that was already done in Whitehall want to make a few observations about what is in the for whoever won the election. document. I shall see how far I can get. However, if I look at defence, I find it difficult to I am not sure that everyone will like my first observation. believe that much long-term planning has been done. It Indeed, I am not sure that anyone will like it. But the is extraordinary. We are going to build two aircraft truth is that beneath all the political noise there is quite carriers which for a decade will not carry any aircraft. I a wide range of cross-party agreement about the need am reminded of an episode of “Yes Minister” in which for sharp action to tackle the deficit. At least two thirds Jim Hacker discovers that a hospital does not have any of the correction to the deficit, or perhaps more, would patients. In fact it is worse than “Yes Minister”, because have taken place whoever had won the election. That is Sir Humphrey pointed out in that episode, which I clear from table 1.1 of the Red Book. looked up, that some patients were about to be brought My second observation is that there is also a substantial in. However, one of the carriers is even going to be consensus about overall economic strategy in the United mothballed. We would not start from here. I hope that Kingdom. That is in complete contrast to the position the Public Accounts Committee will look vigorously at in the 1980s, when there were rival economic strategies. how the UK—and I see the Chairman nodding her There is a consensus not just on deficit reduction, but head—came to sign those contracts for the carriers on the need in principle to reform welfare, the need without any exit clauses. I also hope that we get to the to sort out the banking system and to bring more bottom of whether there was scope for renegotiation of competitiveness to it, and the need for some industrial the contracts, which after all were taken out between a support for biosciences and for some energy production, monopoly supplier and a monopoly demander. That for example. should have created some scope for renegotiation. The third observation is that these cuts are not My seventh observation is that some of the ring-fencing unprecedentedly large, as Lord Turnbull, who gave evidence of public expenditure—we have quite a bit of ring- to us this morning, said. The plans to cut public expenditure fencing—will be difficult to justify in the years ahead. I in the period ahead will keep it broadly steady in real refer particularly to aid. To increase the aid budget by terms for five years. Spending was kept broadly steady 37% in real terms while the justice budget is cut by a in real terms between 1984 and 1990. quarter in real terms takes quite a bit of justifying. My final observation is very much a personal one: Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): I wonder that the level of public expenditure matters irrespective whether that is right, because I have looked at the of the deficit, and that it is too high. Even if there were numbers and it would be appear that, over the period of no deficit, my own view is that having public expenditure the CSR, we will see the share of national income as a proportion of GDP standing at 50% is not good for accounted for by public spending fall by about 6%, to this country. It reduces choice and freedom for millions 41%. That is exactly the same fall as was achieved of individuals and it burdens enterprise with unacceptable during the first, and the start of the second, Thatcher levels of taxation. That is perhaps why for a large Administrations. proportion of Labour’s period in office they held it at 525 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 526

[Mr Tyrie] We have to judge these matters on the basis not of political banter, to and fro and Punch and Judy, but of about 40%, and why the Government now intend to the effect on real people’s—real women’s—lives. The bring it back towards that level—the level at which consequences for communities such as Hackney in the Labour had it in 2008. next financial year will be very serious indeed. The people in those communities will not have been impressed 2.35 pm to see Ministers on the Treasury Bench laughing and Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) congratulating themselves when the statement was (Lab): I am very pleased to have an opportunity to read out. What were they congratulating themselves contribute to this debate, as I believe that these economic on—thousands of people losing their jobs and thousands issues will be the most important issues facing this more losing their homes? Parliament. I want to talk in particular about the effects That brings me on to housing. Members will be of the spending review on London and inner-city aware that since the 19th century one of the core communities—the type of community that I have lived activities of local government in London has been in all my life and sought to represent over the past two building housing—affordable, quality housing for rent. decades. I also want to talk specifically about the effects If hon. Members are not aware of that, I can take them of the spending review on the private sector, as they are to estates built in Hackney more than a century ago. Of not sufficiently debated or understood, and on the course politicians then, even Tory politicians, recognised public sector, and about the particular effects on housing that decent housing was at the core of social stability and housing need in London, because I think the spending and public health concerns. But what are we getting review and the mix of proposals on housing benefit and from this coalition? We are getting cuts in public sector cutting expenditure on public sector housing will hit housing expenditure, which, as I said, affect the traditional London harder than any other part of the country, with role of local government; cuts in people’s housing benefit consequences that I do not think the Government have after a year; and, above all, a cap in housing benefit. calculated. I put it to the Government that the majority of It is not sufficiently understood that more than 1 million people claiming housing benefit are not shiftless people, jobs in the private sector are directly dependent on but working people and those looking after disabled public sector contracts with private sector organisations. people. These are not people who are simply unemployed. That is the case in construction, for example, but there It has been argued that we have to cut housing benefit are also many jobs in social care and looking after because, horror of horror, poor people are living alongside young children that are basically delivered by private rich people in desirable areas of the city. sector organisations. Also, when we make these cuts and people lose their jobs, demand will be taken out of the economy, so many retail and service companies in Toby Perkins: My hon. Friend is reflecting on the London will suffer. These cuts will have a ripple effect in inequities of the changes to housing benefit. Does she the private sector in London. The Government and agree that the Government’s focus on the cap is a red their supporters in the Lib Dem party may be laughing herring, because it is relevant to very few housing now, but they will be laughing on the other side of their benefit recipients, and that the really important thing is faces when the effects on the private sector become the 10% cut that will hit housing benefit recipients in clear. the second year? The coalition Government talk about the public sector as if it is all about men in bowler hats who can easily be Ms Abbott: I quite agree, and I am grateful to my switched into meaningful jobs in sectors such as banking. hon. Friend for raising that issue. I have a sentence or so In Hackney and the inner city generally the majority of more to say about the cap. We have been told by the public sector jobs are women’s jobs, however, and the Prime Minister of the horror of poor people living majority of those women are heads of households, and alongside rich people in boroughs such as Islington and far from doing peripheral or frippery jobs, they work in Westminster. Let me tell the Government that I can take the heart of communities as teaching assistants or care them to the heart of the Prime Minister’s Notting Hill assistants or in the voluntary sector, which will suffer and show them poor but entirely respectable West Indian because of the cuts in local government spending. These couples living alongside merchant bankers who have jobs are at the heart of communities. How hypocritical bought their houses for millions of pounds. London it is of the coalition Government to talk about the big has always been a city where rich and poor live side by society and then attack ordinary women working in the side; it has never had the perfumed stockades of the heart of their communities across a range of important upper east side of New York or the kind of social occupations. segregation seen in American cities. This type of cleansing I have listened to what coalition Ministers have had of poor people from what are deemed to be areas that to say, but having lived in and represented Hackney for are too good for them to live in is quite unconscionable. more than 20 years, I can tell them that there are no As my hon. Friends have said, this is not just about the private sector jobs for women in Hackney who will be cap on housing benefit, although that will also have a made unemployed to step into. That is because of the serious effect on ordinary people in London and may structure of employment in Hackney and the inner city. well see the end of some Lib Dem MPs now sitting on Yes, we can count up the number of vacancies and the the Benches opposite us; it is also about the cuts in number of people who might be made unemployed, but housing benefit after a year. there is a mismatch between the types of people that What I say to the House is that we can sit here this this coalition are going to fling into unemployment and afternoon scoring points and doing the Punch and Judy the actual opportunities available to them, such as they stuff, but real people in our constituencies, whose are, in the City and the private sector in London generally. circumstances are not understood by those on the Treasury 527 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 528

Bench, will suffer as a result of this ill-thought-out, as great, the reduction could still be made in the first ill-paced and wholly ideological spending review. The two years. There could be reductions of 250,000 without credit crunch and the deficit have been the occasion of a single redundancy. this spending review, not the reason for it. I urge my right hon. and hon. Friends not to pursue the redundancy route wherever possible. It is expensive, 2.43 pm unpleasant and disruptive. I do not want to see lots of people retiring early from the administrative services on Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): At the end of big pensions, and I do not want to see redundancy the period, in 2014-15, the Government plan to spend payments made with people coming back into the public £92 billion a year more, on current spending, on services sector at a later date, leaving us to wonder why all the than Labour did in its last year—that is a large 15% cost and disruption has been incurred. increase in the amount of cash. We need to ask ourselves why it is that every year public spending increases, yet The next big area that puts pressure on the increased the Government are proposing some extremely difficult money is debt interest. I entirely agree with the Government, or, in some cases, undesirable choices to be made in and with Opposition Members who knew this when subsequent years to try to live within that rather big they were in government, that we have to bring the figure. I suggest to the Government that there are three deficit down before it kills the whole budget. If we allow areas that they could work on, and that their doing so the deficit to keep on rising, as the Opposition originally would be in all our interests in this House, because if proposed, debt interest will take more and more of the they could manage them better, they might not need to increased spending and we will have to make unpleasant make so many of those difficult choices in the later cuts to the things that matter. How can we reduce that years and would still be able to live within their totals debt interest burden more quickly? If we can get more and get the deficit down. cash into the public sector, starting today—we do not The first reason why there is a squeeze on some need to wait to start the programme next year, as is programmes that many Members do not want to see implied in the figures—we will reduce the increase in squeezed is the big rise in money allocated to pay for the debt day by day. If we sell more assets, we will not inflation; the plans assume quite a lot of public sector have to raise so much money in the debt markets, which inflation over the five years. If the Government can do will keep the debt down. better at buying in goods and services—they are a very It is very good news that the Government’s programme big purchaser and they say they are going to do so—they has restored a lot of confidence in the markets, so that might reduce the average price of bought-in things. the rate at which they now have to borrow is now lower. Instead of having positive inflation, they would have That will obviously make a contribution to getting the negative inflation on that part of the programme. If debt interest rate programme down. they can do a good deal with their employees, reassure I have to say to the Government that I do not think them and get them to accept the kind of measures on that we can afford to give £80 billion to foreign countries pay that are being suggested—I believe that they are over the CSR period. If we add the overseas aid programme talking about a two-year pay freeze, for example—that to the European Union programme, the total is £80 billion will take a lot of extra inflation out of the system, over the period. I do not want to take any money away because the biggest single item in these budgets is of from the poorest countries or from humanitarian aid. course pay. Again, the more that we in the public sector Those are good things and I fully support the Government’s can share the pain by moderate means, such as accepting intention to carry on with them, but I do not think that pay restraint, the less we will have to take the difficult there is any need to subsidise China, India or Russia— choices in later years that are built into the programme. nuclear weapons powers with, in the case of China, The next thing is staff numbers. A lot has been made $2.5 trillion in the bank. It is a bit odd to give China a so far in what passes for a debate in this House about grant when we then have to borrow the money from having 490,000 fewer jobs in the public sector by the China to pay the grant to China. That cannot make any end of the period. These are not 490,000 redundancies. sense. Given the large rate of resignations and retirements in the public sector to which the Chancellor has referred, I I believe that the Government are now going to hope that most can be taken care of by eliminating remove the aid to the richer and more successful countries. posts after people have resigned or left. Cannot we pocket that for a couple of years and then become more generous when we have the deficit under Helen Goodman: I am most grateful to the right hon. control? May we please get the European amounts Gentleman for giving way.Of course, in a very small-minded down? They are the most unforgivable ones; poor people way, what he says is right. If those jobs are cut, where in Britain are paying tax to offer grants to rich countries does he think that young people will get the new jobs in Europe, and that is not acceptable in the current that they need? conditions. The more that these pressures—the grants abroad, Mr Redwood: In the private sector, which is already debt interest, costs, inflation and staff numbers—can be generating tens of thousands of jobs every month. That abated, the more we will have money available to do is what we need to do. I am not saying that there should better things with the growing programmes. It is good be a complete staff freeze. For example, if 480,000 a news that nine of the Departments have level or rising year are leaving, which was the Chancellor’s figure in cash throughout the period, but it is bad news that one the Budget, 250,000 people could be hired while still or two other Departments will find that the shoe pinches achieving half the reduction in the first year. I think a lot. That is why I think that we need to make more that the Chancellor might have been a bit optimistic, rapid progress in controlling costs and staff numbers, but he referred to an 8% rate. If the percentage was half particularly in administration, and in dealing with the 529 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 530

[Mr Redwood] children are very expensive, as many of us who are parents know. It may be that for these economic reasons, debt interest programmes, so that we have a bit more the birth rate in societies such as the UK is below free to ease those areas that will be very tight in future replacement level. These are significant issues. years. The fourth reason is extremely important. The family I do not for one moment believe the figures from allowance—now child benefit—was essentially an income 2013 to 2015 anyway, because I think that they will for mothers. That is what Eleanor Rathbone was arguing subject to subsequent revision because of the pressure for. Despite modern times, and despite the rise of the of events. As inflation changes, we will need to revise dual worker family and the rise of women’s rights, my them. As the state of the economy changes, we will need guess would be that it is still mothers in most of our to revise them one way or the other. Let us hope it will families who are responsible for juggling family budgets outperform and we will have a bit more scope. at different income levels. It is mums who make the As an election draws near, politicians tend to want to judgment about whether the clothes and the shoes can spend more, so we should discount the 2013-15 figures be afforded, how to fund the school trips and the treats and concentrate on what is happening now. Will the for children—[Interruption.] That obviously struck a Government please bring forward as many of the reductions chord with someone. If my hon. Friend the Member for as possible to this year, and not wait until next year? Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) could also laugh The more we save now, the less we borrow and the more at any jokes I make, that would be helpful. the pressure is reduced on subsequent years’ programmes. The income for mothers is particularly important for mothers who, often pejoratively, are referred to as the 2.50 pm stay-at-home mums—those who make the judgment that for the first few years, they want to look after their Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): I shall focus own children. Choice is so important. I think that in specifically on child benefit, and start by sincerely future we will see more parents wanting to spend time congratulating the coalition Government. In 1945 the with their children, especially when they are young. coalition Government, which involved Liberals, That is why the family allowance and the child benefit Conservatives and Labour, introduced family allowances—a have been so important, and that is why, following the coalition Government who got something right. It was modern coalition Government’s announcement, we have in the mid to late 1970s that child tax allowances were seen so much concern from those mothers in so-called amalgamated with the family allowance scheme to form higher income families about the loss of their income. child benefit. That is very important. Unfortunately, there is now a need to restate the case A fifth reason is that child benefit, alongside other for family support and for child benefit. I want to benefits, is part of the universalist spine that is so explain why it is such an important scheme to maintain crucial to a modern welfare state. Alongside free education, as a universal scheme. First, there is the societal interest a free national health service, pensions and national in bringing up our children. No one spoke more clearly insurance benefits, child benefit is universalism, and I about that than Eleanor Rathbone when in 1940 she believe that universalism is a major force for cohesion in said that our society. It is a “We’re all in this together” social “children are not simply a private luxury. They are an asset to the policy, which we start to erode with perilous implications. community, and the community can no longer afford to leave the Child benefit is simple, easily understood and easily provision for their welfare solely to the accident of individual administered. income.” That was Eleanor Rathbone, the heroine of family Mr Umunna: Will my right hon. Friend give way? support, back in 1940. A second reason for child benefit is what we might call horizontal equity. The welfare state is not simply Malcolm Wicks: Iamhappytogivewaytomy about poverty. In terms of child benefit, it is about the constituency neighbour in Streatham. fact that whatever people’s income level, if they have children, they are taking on financial responsibilities Mr Umunna: Will my right hon. Friend also acknowledge over and above those who are childless or the single. that one of the good things about child benefit is that its Horizontal equity is important, as we are finding take-up is so high? Take-up is one of the problems that out now. we have with many benefits that are paid out. Thirdly, there is the sheer cost of bringing up a child. No longer is a child someone who becomes independent Malcolm Wicks: I agree, of course, because child at 14, 15 or 16, when they leave school and get a job. benefit is easily understood, simple and a universal Once upon a time children might have been an economic benefit. I am very happy to agree with my parliamentary asset on the land. Today our children, with higher and neighbour. further education, are dependent on their families for Child benefit is now being undermined, which is why longer and longer. it is so important to restate the basics in favour of People have had a go at estimating the costs of a family benefits. We are seeing something that will attack child. The most recent estimate that I have seen is from the very principle of women’s entitlement. It will essentially the Liverpool Victoria Friendly Society, which said that punish mothers if their husbands earn above the higher the costs of a child could be as high as £200,000. We can tax threshold; the mums will suffer because of the add on to that other indirect costs when the mother, father’s income. As an aside, let us not assume that in staying at home, loses her place on the career ladder, the 21st century income is shared by all families; there loses salary, loses income and loses pension rights. Our are still families where the father keeps more than he 531 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 532 gives to the mother and the children. That is not just themselves. The coalition Government are taking the about poverty, either; it happens at other income levels, necessary steps to restore order and stability to our too. public finances. That will restore confidence among The measure is also a snub to those mothers who, as I British businesses and confidence among countries abroad said earlier, choose to stay at home to look after their that Britain is serious about tackling its desperate situation. own children. We need more choices—about whether Confidence and low interest rates are the bedrock for people go to work and use child care or stay at home to ensuring that our businesses can grow. look after their own children. What message are we sending out to those mothers who want to care for their Mr Umunna: Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge children in that way? that there is not a difference in views on the need to deal The measure also introduces, as we know, the unfairness with the deficit per se but that the issue is rather the between the dual-earner family on £80,000, who keep speed and the depth with which we do that? Labour the child benefit, and the family with one earner above Members think that we need to go for a different time the threshold, who lose it. The measure is a recipe for scale of deficit reduction as compared with his party—or complexity, and it will disincentivise those who are just at least his party post-May of this year. Will he at least below the tax threshold to earn more money in the acknowledge that there is a view on deficit reduction future. among Labour Members, but that it may not be the same as his party’s? This is a measure that needs to be rethought. It undermines family support, and it undermines our children. Stephen Williams: The hon. Gentleman is a thoughtful So much for the party of the family. man who now sits on the Treasury Committee. Perhaps he thinks that this is a serious issue that needs to be 2.57 pm tackled, but many of his hon. Friends seem to be in deficit denial. We have not heard thus far in the debate— Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): I begin by although there are many hours to go—a single idea reminding the House of the background against which from the Opposition on how they would tackle the we debate this comprehensive spending review. We were deficit, whether it is over four years or five years, which borrowing £1 for every £4 that we spent, and that is a point of debate. simply could not go on, whatever Government of whatever combination of parties had taken office after the general Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): Will election in May. the hon. Gentleman give way? There were more than 20 public meetings in Bristol West during the election, and at every single one I made Stephen Williams: I am running out of time, so I will it clear to my potential constituents that, if my party not be able to. took part in a coalition after the election, as seemed The Chief Secretary announced that the comprehensive likely from the polls at the time, we would have to make spending review was designed to achieve three things. difficult decisions and would not shirk from doing so. The first of those was growth, and today’s statement by the Business Secretary certainly builds on that. I welcome Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): Did the the £1.4 billion for the regional growth fund and the hon. Gentleman make it clear at those same meetings local enterprise partnerships that have been set up to what he was going to do on tuition fees after the replace the regional development agencies. In Bristol, election? Did he make it clear that the pledge that he the South West Regional Development Agency will not was signing was not the worth the paper it was written be missed, and I look forward to working with our local on? enterprise partnership for Bristol and the west of England. I welcome the fact that the science budget has been Stephen Williams: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his protected in cash terms, and the fact that £250 million point. Yes, I certainly did address many student audiences extra is being put into apprenticeships—something that during the election in Bristol West, and I made it quite I spoke about repeatedly in the last Parliament, when I clear that in an ideal world, and in ideal financial led for my party on these issues. circumstances, the Liberal Democrats would have wished to abolish tuition fees from the outset. Financial I also welcome the moves towards a low-carbon circumstances did not allow us to do so, however, and economy to ensure that we have stable and sustainable that is why we had a phased plan. I spoke at the launch growth in future, with the green investment bank and of the National Union of Students pledge on working the first investment in carbon capture and storage, with the Government for a fairer system of student which the previous Government pulled out of. finance, and I am still working with the Government I welcome, too, the transport schemes that have been and the NUS to produce such a fair system. If the announced so far this week, but I look forward to Government come forward with a fair system, I will confirmation next week, when we have the announcements support them; if they do not, I will not. on rail, that the electrification of the great western main We know that Labour planned to make billions of line from Paddington to Bristol and to south Wales pounds’ worth of cuts whatever happened after the should go ahead in order to support growth and stability election; it has been confirmed in many memoirs. But in Swindon, Bristol, the west of England and south Labour Members have since been in deficit denial. They Wales. have been in denial about the need to tackle the deficit The second theme of the CSR is reform to the itself, and, as today’s debate has shown, they have not welfare system, which is absolutely essential. The need been able to give us a single Government measure that for that was recognised by the last Labour Government, they would support, or to put forward an alternative but now Lord Freud is a Minister in the coalition 533 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 534

[Stephen Williams] before the bank bail-out and continued to increase after it, and the Labour Government spent recklessly in their Government and Lord Hutton is advising the coalition last days. The current Government are acting to reduce Government on how to achieve what the previous the deficit, introduce reform, encourage growth and, Government recognised but failed to tackle. It is a key most importantly, encourage fairness in our society and principle that work should always pay: it should be achieve it through social mobility. clear to everybody that if one is in work one should be better off. However, the welfare system is a social contract 3.6 pm between all of us, and, in addition, taxpayers must think it is fair for them to pay for it. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I was particularly keen to speak in today’s debate because, the Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): day after the Chancellor delivered his statement in the Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Chamber, his draconian cuts greeted with cheering and waving from the Government Benches, the Prime Minister Stephen Williams: Once more, and then I will run out and Deputy Prime Minister headed off to a primary of time. school in my constituency. I am not quite sure why they were there, and it seemed as though they did not know why either, but of course the kids at Welbeck primary Glenda Jackson: In the light of what the hon. Gentleman greeted them with great delight. Prince Charles came up just told the House, does he support the cuts in housing to the Meadows recently, so people are getting used to benefit? visitors from London.

Stephen Williams: The cuts in housing benefit are an Gordon Banks: Could the Prime Minister and Deputy example of difficult decisions that have been made. Prime Minister possibly have been at the school in my However, I have to say to the hon. Lady—we represent hon. Friend’s constituency getting some arithmetic lessons? similar constituencies, mine in Bristol and hers in central London—that £400 a week in housing benefit is not a Lilian Greenwood: If only. I thank my hon. Friend. miserly amount for someone to fund their accommodation. What did I hear in the media coverage of the visit? I heard about the Prime Minister’s amazement that he Glenda Jackson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? had found a lad who liked broccoli. I did not hear the Prime Minister or Deputy Prime Minister telling the Stephen Williams: Not again. I do not think that the kids about the huge gamble that the Government are coalition Government will be making people homeless taking with their future. They are performing a huge on the scale that the hyperbole coming from the Opposition economic experiment. They have a theory that if we cut Benches suggests. public spending, lose 490,000 public sector jobs and, as The third theme of the CSR is the need for fairness. PricewaterhouseCoopers tells us, lose another 500,000 In the last Parliament, I spoke many times about the private sector jobs that depend on the public sector, the importance of achieving social mobility. We know from rest of the private sector will somehow fill the gap. They the studies of those born in 1958 and those born in 1970 do not seem to hear the warnings of economists who that social mobility has stagnated. There are many disagree. Listening to Ministers last week, one would complicated reasons for that, not all of which can be have thought that the PricewaterhouseCoopers figures laid at the door of the previous Government. I am sure had about the same credence as Mystic Meg. The that their intentions were good in many circumstances, Government do not want to hear about the effect of but sadly after 13 years social mobility was still stuck their cuts, because they want to make them. and Britain was still the second least socially mobile country in the world after the United States. That is why Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Has my hon. Friend I particularly welcome the fairness premium of £7.2 billion found any evidence that the coalition Government have over the comprehensive spending review period that thought out how confidence will be created to stimulate was confirmed in the review, and the £2.5 billion pupil the public sector, given that millions of people across premium, which is from additional funding from outside the country are worrying that their household might be schools’ budgets and is being introduced to help the one of the million that will be hit by a job cut, and poorest children from around our country. I grew up fearing that cuts to housing benefit will mean that they being entitled to free school meals and know what it is are left with very few pennies to spare after their mortgage like to make the journey from poverty to a career payments or rent? through work and effort. Many children need support from their schoolteachers and mentoring from other Lilian Greenwood: I thank my hon. Friend for that people to bring about that transformation. I am a interjection. In fact, the latest figures for both consumer liberal interventionist and make no apology for that. It and business confidence are going through the floor. is important that that support continues through to Never mind the extra 1 million who will be out of further and higher education, so I welcome the £150 million work, the extra £700 million that we will have to spend higher education scholarship as a basis of support on jobseeker’s allowance or the loss of tax revenues; the for young people who access higher education for the Government’s attitude is, “Cut deep and keep your first time. fingers crossed.” But did the Prime Minister say that This Government inherited a desperate situation. We when he was in Nottingham? Did he tell those children have the worst deficit of all the major economies in the about his gamble? Of course not, just like he did not tell world, at 11% of our national income. It is not entirely them that their families, many of whom are in the the fault of the banks. The structural deficit was high poorest 10%, would be hit harder than anyone else. He 535 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 536 did not mention that for all the talk of fairness, families 3.12 pm with children will have to pay more than twice as much as the banks towards reducing the deficit. He did not Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The reading comes mention that although his friend the Chancellor talked from “Proverbs”, chapter 31, verses 8 and 9: about continuing the decent homes programme, the “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; funds have actually been cut. oppose any that go to law against them; speak out and pronounce just sentence Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): I am sure that and give judgement for the wretched and the poor.” the hon. Lady and all hon. Members present agree that I am grateful to Lexden Methodist church in my future jobs are vital. Will she therefore join me in constituency for its notices for the week of Sunday welcoming last quarter’s figures, which show the greatest 24 October and the thought for the week—political increase in new jobs for more than 20 years? concerns. I mention that because of the deafening silence from the Church in the broader sense on issues of social Lilian Greenwood: I am absolutely delighted that new concern, housing benefit and the housing crisis. There jobs are being created. My concern is that when the cuts are enough bishops at the other end who could speak start to feed through that will no longer be the case. out on such issues, but I am still waiting for the Church— archbishops, bishops and cardinals, the whole lot—to Although some of the children whom the Prime speak. I am grateful to Lexden Methodist church for Minister and Deputy Prime Minister were talking to allowing me to put that on the record and I welcome the will have had improvements to their homes—new windows concept of fairness. and doors to make them secure, or new boilers or better insulation to make them warm—their classmates will I am not one who says that all private is good and all not all get the same opportunity. The Prime Minister public bad, or vice versa. It is important to keep a did not tell them what will be happening to some of the mixture of the two. schools that they will go to when they leave Welbeck primary, or to the schools that their brothers and sisters Mr Slaughter: I do not disagree with the hon. Gentleman, might go to. The projects to rebuild Trinity and Fernwood but I think he is being slightly unfair to the clergy. My secondary schools in my constituency have been scrapped local vicar has written asking me to join a campaign to altogether. As for the projects to rebuild Nethergate, get the Chancellor to pay his fair share of taxes following Farnborough and Bluecoat—a few months ago, the last week’s “Dispatches” programme. Secretary of State for Education said that they were unaffected, but they are now being told that there is a Bob Russell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for cut of 40% in the funding available. I am sure that if the that point, but I was talking about the major, national Prime Minister had asked the kids at Welbeck they Church leaders. There are excellent clergy at local level. could have told him that “unaffected” means not affected. Indeed, St Margaret’s church in my constituency, which Sadly, that is another broken promise and it is not fair. is in a relatively prosperous part of one of the world’s Finally, let us nail the myth that this is all Labour’s richest countries, has started a food parcel system for fault. When he spoke in the Chamber last week, the hard-up families. The fact that the Church at community Chancellor did not mention the word “recession” once. level is doing such things speaks volumes, but our We have just come through the biggest economic crisis national Church leaders are not. I look forward to the in generations—a global recession. If he does not Archbishop of Canterbury speaking up. understand why the deficit is high how can he possibly understand how to fix it? The deficit went up because Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): Archbishop Sentamu we had a huge fall in output and tax receipts plummeted. said only the other day: Spending went up so that we could protect people’s “I am not an economist, and I am not a politician, but to cut homes and jobs, protect businesses and prevent the investment to vital public services, and to withdraw investment recession from becoming a depression. Labour took the from communities, is madness.” right decisions and the Conservatives would have made Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that Archbishop the wrong choice every time. They are gambling with Sentamu is sticking up for people in this country? Does people’s jobs and homes and they have no plan for he agree with those sentiments? growth. Bob Russell: I applaud the Archbishop of York for Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): If the previous that sentiment and those words—and indeed many Government took the right decisions, why were we the others. He and I have something in common: we have first of the G7 countries into recession, the longest in it both done a freefall sky dive with the Red Devils. and the last out? Earlier this morning I met the vicar of Dibley. Actually, that is not quite true. I actually met the Rev. Paul Lilian Greenwood: We suffered most during the recession Nicholson, who is chair of Zacchaeus 2000 Trust. Before because we had a high reliance on financial services. It he took that position, he was the priest in the village of was because our tax receipts were hit so badly that we Turville, where “The Vicar of Dibley” was filmed. He is needed to take action to protect people’s jobs and very concerned, as indeed I hope we all are. He points homes. The Conservatives would have done nothing out that contrary to the Daily Mail examples, and they have no plan for growth. I am afraid that the accommodation for people on benefits is expensive next time the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime because there is a shortage of affordable housing, owing Minister come to Nottingham, they might not get such to the absence of any coherent housing policy for the a warm welcome. past 30 years. 537 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 538

[Bob Russell] 3.21 pm

The market has failed to provide affordable housing. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Property speculators and landowners have grown wealthy, The headlines in the debate on the comprehensive spending but the poorest tenants face the misery of eviction review have concentrated mainly on justified concerns through no fault of their own. Eviction for rent arrears about cuts to family support, welfare and housing. triggers homelessness, and councils must somehow address However, in my contribution I wish to focus on some of that. However, those of us who have a local government the main questions about transport. background will know that when eviction is brought Transport is vital to most of what happens in this about by rent arrears, the legal term “intentional country. It is vital to economic development, to enabling homelessness” creeps in, which is a serious problem. people to get to work and to quality of life. It enables Those who were present at Prime Minister’s questions people to lead full lives and guards against social exclusion. yesterday will know that I asked him about it, and I I welcome the headlines in the settlement on transport, have spoken on the matter in Westminster Hall debates. including the focus on some specific investments which I am grateful to Family Action, a charity that was is very welcome, but I wish to draw the House’s attention founded in 1869 and that is now sponsored by Barclaycard. to some major issues that need much fuller investigation. Its analysis of the welfare reforms, which is entitled The first is that of fairness in investment and “Pushed Towards Poverty: 21 welfare cuts for low-income regeneration—with the accompanying jobs—across the working families”, adds to the anxiety of recent times, country. At the moment, transport investment in London which can only get worse. Family Action supports per head is three times higher than in other regions. It is vulnerable and disadvantaged families throughout England, unclear whether the proposals in the settlement will including families in which parents experience mental change that or simply exacerbate the difference. I welcome health problems, learning difficulties, addiction or domestic the announcement that Crossrail will go ahead. I know violence. Critically, it works with families within their how important that is in London—and it has national homes to improve the parenting, ensure that the children’s implications—but there is an ominous silence about the development milestones are met, and to help them to go-ahead in a proper timescale for electrification of the access work, training and volunteering. The impact of Liverpool-Manchester-Preston-Blackpool line. I noted the changes in general—not just housing benefit cuts—could the strange answer from the Secretary of State for make it harder for many families to lift themselves out Transport this morning, which avoided the issue completely. of poverty through work and, in some cases, families We have had no clarity about electrification on the such as the ones with whom Family Action works risk Great Western line or whether the northern hub will go finding that employment is no longer sustainable. ahead in the way envisaged. All those projects are In debates such as this, it is worth quoting local important for economic regeneration and have implications examples. The one big benefit of the cancellation of the for the release and provision of rolling stock across the Building Schools for the Future programme is that a north. We need much clearer and quicker answers to secondary school in my constituency that the Labour those questions. Government would have closed will not now be closed. Great concern has also been expressed about the However, alongside that, we need funding for Colchester dramatic fare increases in the settlement. The increase academy, which opened last month. It was Sir Charles in train fares could see the fare from Manchester to Lucas Arts college. The pupils have a new uniform and London increase from just over £65 to £88— the school a new name, but they are still using the same dilapidated building. I therefore look to the coalition Kwasi Kwarteng: Will the hon. Lady give way? Government to deliver a new building. Finally, I shall draw the House’s attention to the Mrs Ellman: I am sorry, but I have very little time and possible unintended consequences and knock-on effects other hon. Members wish to speak. of halting capital schemes. The Sure Start capital grant project at Kendall school in Colchester has already had Bus fares often do not get sufficient attention, but £102,000 invested, but if the grant is not now forthcoming, many lower-income people depend on buses to get to all that money will have been wasted. That takes into work and local amenities. But there will be a severe cut account only the financial aspects, not the provision of in bus services’ operators grant, which could mean places for pre-school children and so on. A local building higher bus fares and fewer bus services. The cut in that company was all set to start work, planning permission grant combined with cuts in revenue support to local has been granted and a chain reaction of education authorities could mean that less money is available to provision is on the verge of commencing for the benefit enable buses to be provided where services are needed of the school and the local community, but it needs the for social reasons rather than to make increased profits Sure Start money. for the bus operating companies. We have had very little I also wrote to the Secretary of State for Education clarity about what that means. on 23 September. I headed the letter “The Big Society— Another important matter that has not been mentioned common-sense and avoiding an own goal”. It relates to by Government Transport Ministers concerns the St John’s church in Colchester where the erection of a implications of a settlement on the critical issue of road new church hall is again dependent on the Sure Start safety. One of the unrecognised success stories of recent money. If that project does not go ahead, £115,000 years has been the big reduction in the number of worth of preparatory work will be wasted and donations, fatalities and serious injuries on our roads. Every single bequests and fundraising work will all have been to no death and serious injury is a tragedy for the individuals avail. I urge the Government to look at what is going and their families, but it is significant that, in the past on. These are capital investments that would generate year alone, there has been a 12% reduction in the jobs and provide benefits for the local community. number of people killed on our roads. The reason for 539 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 540 that reduction is that local and central Government levels. First, there is the snapshot of winners and losers have combined in a number of measures to make our that there will be in any budgetary process, and the roads safer. matter of protecting the lowest-paid public sector employees It is extremely disturbing, therefore, that we now have from the pay freeze, the pupil premium and the triple a cut in—an elimination of, in some cases—the specific lock on pensions. We must address the glaring unfairness grants to local authorities that enable them to go ahead in pay not only between the public and private sectors, with road safety schemes, together with a change in but within the public sector. The best paramedic in this national direction and the abolition, I understand, and country can earn just one tenth of what the top NHS the complete axing of the previous Government’s effective manager can earn. What does that say about our priorities? public education campaign on road safety. That Some are bucking the trend. Sir Norman Bettison, the combination of Government and local action was very chief constable of West Yorkshire, described the idea important in reducing the number of road casualties. that the public sector is competing with the private Has any thought been given to how the cuts in this sector for talent as “costly and irresponsible nonsense”. spending will affect the number of deaths on our roads? He proposes to address public sector pay restraint That is critical. incrementally, starting with the highest paid 25%. His proposal merits close consideration. I am also extremely concerned about the difficulties facing strategic road schemes under the new arrangements. The second dimension of fairness in the CSR relates Such schemes matter because they bring jobs and economic to the intergenerational allocation of resources. According benefits to local areas, but the projects currently decided to the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, on through the regional allocations now have nowhere a failure to tackle the deficit would leave each member to go and, from the Transport Secretary’s written statement of the next generation having to pay £200,000 extra in today, it seems clear that he too has no answers. Local taxes just to enjoy the same level of public services that economic partnerships are no substitute for proper we and previous generations have enjoyed. What is fair regional thinking that cuts across local authorities and about leaving our children with a tax bill of £200,000 provides vital economic lifelines—by giving access to each? ports, for example. Helen Goodman: What is fair about those of us who 3.27 pm had a free university education not paying extra tax while our children are to be burdened with extra debt? Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I commend Ministers on the spending review, because finally we Mr Raab: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, have a Government who are prepared to address the big but the problem is that the university budget as it was picture. configured under the previous Government was simply In the last four years of the previous Government, unsustainable. That is but one of the many examples of Britain dropped from third to 13th on the international where they ducked the problem of reform and we have rankings for economic competitiveness, partly because addressed it. of rising global competition, but also because of the excessive inflation of the public sector. As a result, British productivity lags behind our major international Richard Graham: Would my hon. Friend like to ask competitors. According to EUROSTAT data, between the House which party introduced charges on university 2000 and 2008, European Governments who spent 42% education? or less of GDP created 27% extra jobs. Governments who spent more than 42% had jobs growth of just 6%. Mr Raab: I will resist the temptation, but I thank my In that period—before the banking crisis—Britain jumped hon. Friend for his question. from the high-jobs-growth camp to the low-jobs-growth Finally, the comprehensive spending review promotes camp. The amount of GDP consumed by the UK the economic growth that we need—growth driven by Government rose by 11% to 48%, and sure enough jobs the private sector. That is what creates jobs and pays for growth was a paltry 5%. The evidence is plain: we public services. The July Budget restored confidence, cannot spend our way to economic growth. cutting corporation tax and reversing the jobs tax. There is nothing ideological about wanting to create Employment was up by 178,000 in the last quarter. jobs, and there is nothing socially fair about the welfare Economic growth in the last two quarters was the trap. I hear the calls every week from Opposition Members highest that it had been for 10 years. We must build on to soak the rich, but today the top 5% of earners in this that—nothing can be taken for granted—and that is country pay almost half the country’s income tax. If why I welcome the investment in infrastructure and that is not a fair share, fine, but where would the science. I support the plan for tax breaks in national Opposition raise taxes, and by how much? The real risk insurance for start-up companies in their first year. with their strategy is that the brightest talent will flee However, that measure will be confined to certain regions. this country, if they believe that talent and graft are Will Ministers say what assessment has been made of punished rather than rewarded. The brain drain does the net effect on tax revenue of extending that important nothing for social fairness. The July Budget and this measure across the country? deficit plan have brought Britain back from the cusp of I know that time is short, and I want to allow others default. the time to have their say. It is right that every measure Yesterday, we saw Standard & Poor’s triple A rating in the CSR should be robustly debated and scrutinised, restored from negative to stable, and the task now is to but without an alternative, overarching deficit plan, drive economic growth and competitiveness. However, criticism of those measures fails the test of credibility the spending review also addresses fairness at three and relevance. 541 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 542

Several hon. Members rose— The Government argue that rents will fall. They will not. We have so many young professionals who cannot Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Before purchase property because of the prices and because I call the next speaker, I am going to have to reduce the they cannot get loans—and they are taking up any time to five minutes, and even then we are really struggling, slack. The Government argue that this is an incentive to so if hon. Members can ease up on the time that they work—a terrible insult to those who are unemployed. use, that would be better. When Labour were in government, unemployment fell by 50% in my constituency. We halved unemployment and the fact is that it has risen only because of the 3.32 pm recession. People want to work and people will work. Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): I appreciate I am absolutely sickened when I hear the Government the opportunity to make a brief contribution, which I speak about fairness. There is nothing fair about these shall limit to my constituency, and to housing benefit in measures—nothing fair whatever—and they are going particular. Lewisham is a relatively poor borough, where to hurt the most vulnerable most. They are absolutely wages are around £26,500 per annum on average and sickening. They will not drive people into work; they where the mean house price in sales last year was will not lower the prices; there is nothing fair about the £240,000. In common with most London boroughs, we housing benefit changes and nothing more punitive. are an area of extreme housing stress, brought about This is a catastrophe in the making—a catastrophe for primarily by population growth and the fragmentation my people in Lewisham, for London as a whole and for of households. Changes in housing benefit will have a this great capital city. I remember when people slept in devastating effect on people who seek to be decently cardboard boxes on the South Bank. This Government housed in Lewisham. are planning to bring back those conditions. Ministers have sought to present their cuts and their new proposals in the light of a few absolutely extortionate 3.37 pm rents. They have spoken continuously about the cap and the fact that people should not be able to claim benefits Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): In the brief to live in what they deem to be luxury accommodation. time available, I would like to direct my remarks to That is not something that affects the majority of some of the changes announced this week as they relate housing benefit claimants in this country. When he specifically to my Thurrock constituency. sums up, will the Minister, who is not paying attention— In building a programme of spending to go forward, [Interruption] I am glad to see that he now is paying the Chancellor has rightly recognised the importance of attention. Will he tell us what proportion of all housing infrastructure investment for creating the right conditions benefit claimants in the UK are affected by the cap? In for businesses to grow and for the UK to become a Lewisham, fewer than one in 1,000 people will be more competitive economy. However, there are a couple affected. Our people are not living in luxury, but let me of constituency issues that I would like to put to him, tell him that this change will be a tragedy for the biggest and I want to ask him to think about whether, as we go families, living in the biggest properties—often in quite forward, we are really serving my constituents well—in squalid conditions—and they will be evicted. particular, the businesses within the constituency. The fact is that a conservative estimate made by my Paragraph 2.25 of the spending review states that local authority finds that 9,050 households are affected “subject to consultation… charges on the Dartford Crossing” by the generality of changes that are proposed by this will be increased, Government. I further tell the Minister, to nail another myth perpetrated by this Government, that 5,000 of “alongside accelerating plans to improve traffic flow.” those are people in work. At this stage, it is not clear what those plans are. Motorists who are regular users of the crossing will Stephen Gilbert rose— witness that it is operating way beyond capacity and has regular delays. Moreover, the congestion regularly spills Joan Ruddock: I am advised not to allow interventions, out on to the road network in Thurrock, so my constituents as it will take up other Members’ time. are regularly faced with misery, caused by the congestion that is caused by users of an over-used crossing. The loss for a one-bedroom property is about £11 a week; for a three-bedroom property, £34 a week; and The local economy in Thurrock is uniquely dependent for a four-bedroom property, £57 a week. People cannot on logistics. We have a thriving port at Tilbury and we make up this difference from their low wages—very low are now witnessing a massive inward investment on the in Lewisham, as I have said—and they could not make part of DP World, which will generate upwards of it up if they were in receipt of benefit because of 16,000 jobs once it is on stream. That will require a fully unemployment. There is no way these people can make functioning road infrastructure network for those businesses it up, so they will be evicted. What will happen then? to be the success that we want them to be in creating the There are 17,000 people waiting for council housing in jobs that we need. I urge the Chancellor, when considering Lewisham; there are 50 families already in bed and where the proceeds of the tolls will be directed, to show breakfast; there are 1,000 households in temporary some sympathy for making greater investment in the accommodation. There are no alternatives for the people road infrastructure in Thurrock. I am concerned about. They will not be able to rent and It is particularly regrettable that the Secretary of they will not be able to find cheaper accommodation State had to announce yesterday that the proposed because of the huge pressure on housing—pressure that improvements at junction 30 had also been shelved. It is will come from richer boroughs that try to put people regrettable because DP World, which was investing in out of their own area and into areas like Lewisham. Thurrock, would also have made a private sector investment 543 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 544 contribution to the road improvements. I hope that we The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine will soon get more clarity on the road infrastructure Greening): This is a very important issue, and I want to improvements that we are going to get to increase take this opportunity to reassure the hon. Lady that capacity at the crossing. that is precisely what we are doing. Having said that, and although the increase in charges at the crossing are regrettable, I quite understand why Ms Ritchie: I thank the hon. Lady for her response. the Chancellor finds himself in this position. At this The most important thing to us in Northern Ireland stage, he is not able to turn down a nice little earner for is the annually managed expenditure, through which the Government, given the mess that the public finances our benefits are paid. What makes this iniquitous is the are in, thanks to the Labour Government. fact that the money does not come out of the Northern I want to make another suggestion. When we are Ireland block, but directly out of the pockets and looking to see where we can get the most bang for our purses of benefit recipients. In Northern Ireland, that buck in public spending, we must remember that Thurrock represents up to £0.5 billion being taken from some of is in Essex, and Essex is known for its entrepreneurial the poorest households. The Prime Minister claims that spirit, if for nothing else. Everyone recognises that the that is fair, but what is fair about snatching the mobility road improvements—at junction 30 in particular—are allowance that is payable to people in residential care? essential for creating the investment that could unlock What about the changes to child benefit? What about 36,000 jobs in the area. It is my contention that, for the changes to housing benefit? Are they fair? On the every £1 invested in Essex, we will get more bang for the face of it, those large-scale welfare cuts have little to do taxpayers’ buck. I hope that the Chancellor and the with the laudable desire to help people move from Secretary of State for Transport will bear this in mind benefit dependency to the dignity and self-sufficiency of when they consider their options for increasing spending gainful employment. They represent an old-fashioned in future. onslaught on the poor. I am a former Minister for Social Development in 3.41 pm Northern Ireland with responsibility for benefits. Along with my successor, I have engaged in continuing discussions Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): When with the Department for Work and Pensions about the comprehensive spending review was debated recently welfare reform issues and the respects in which welfare in the Northern Ireland Assembly, there was a general reform proposals are inappropriate for Northern Ireland. feeling that, against the budgetary framework outlined I believe that we have reached a point at which we may at the time when devolution was restored, we had been need to redesign the social security system in Northern short-changed. Notwithstanding the protestations of Ireland to make it much fairer for all, and to give the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, we have ourselves greater freedom and flexibility to do things been disappointed, to say the least. I note, however, the differently. I believe that that can be done without the undertakings given today by the Chief Secretary to the need for an increase in the net subsidy to Northern Treasury that the Government will keep their commitments Ireland. on track. The Members of Parliament for Northern We are doing a lot of thinking about how we can Ireland will undoubtedly hold them to that. secure more local control of Northern Ireland’s economic During that debate in the Assembly, there was an air levers, and we expect a robust but fruitful dialogue with of financial realism. Perhaps for the first time in our the Chancellor when the promised economic paper on recent history, it has become clear to everyone in Northern Northern Ireland is circulated by the Government within Ireland that we really are responsible for ourselves and the next few weeks. The Chancellor indicated in last for making the best use of the available resources. I week’s CSR statement that both he and the Secretary of hope that it might still be possible, however, to secure State for Northern Ireland intended to engage with all improvements around the edges of the published settlement, Northern Ireland Members of Parliament. As one of including guarantees on policing and security; access to those Members of Parliament, and as a Northern Ireland end-year flexibility; latitude in how welfare reform is party leader, I look forward to that discussion. There is implemented in Northern Ireland, given its unique legacy; no doubt that we need to rebalance our economy, but and more freedom to borrow. For this reason, I fully one thing that we must not do is throw the baby out support the plans of the joint First Ministers in Northern with the bathwater and remove people from the public Ireland to engage directly with the Prime Minister and sector, because that will throw asunder our whole jobs the Chancellor. and investment scenario. The impact of the CSR settlement on Northern Ireland can be assessed in three parts. First, on current 3.47 pm expenditure, we are facing a cut in real terms of 7% by the final year of the CSR. That is challenging, but it is Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): Let not insurmountable. Secondly, in regard to capital me begin by reminding the House why the country is in expenditure—regardless of the smoke and mirrors put its present position, and why the spending review has in place by the Chancellor, the Prime Minister and the had to be so tough. We are in this position because the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland—we have been last Labour Government left the largest deficit in our left well short of our expectations. Thirdly, on capital peacetime history, and the largest structural deficit in investment, we faced a further downturn the other day Europe. with the suspension of the Northern Ireland aggregates What does that mean? I will tell hon. Members what levy credit scheme. I want to ask the Chancellor and his it means. This year, we will spend £43 billion on debt Treasury team to continue the negotiations with the interest alone. That is £120 million every single day. For European Commission to ensure that that is reinstated. that money, we could build a new primary school every 545 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 546

[Stephen Gilbert] extra money attached to the children who need it most. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West hour. We could triple the number of doctors in our (Stephen Williams), who has left his place, when I was hospitals. We could spend twice as much on education at school, I was eligible for free school meals, and I every year. I therefore do not see how it is tenable for know what a difference extra money going to the pupils Opposition Members to ignore the astronomical waste who need it most can make. The funding will not just of money that those interest payments are leaving with benefit them. By driving up standards across our schools, us, and the unfairness of suggesting that we pass it to it will benefit every child in every school. It could be future generations. used to cut class sizes, provide one-to-one tuition and Labour Members claim that they planned £48 billion catch-up classes, or used in any way the school sees fit, of public spending cuts when they were still in government, ensuring that every child gets the individual attention but they forgot to tell us where those cuts would fall. that they need and deserve. Throughout the debate, I have been enlightened no As everyone in the House knows, performance at further on what they would cut and how they would school is tightly linked to future outcomes. That is address the problem. I hope that, in the hours that where fairness can start: the funding can make a difference remain, some Labour Members may come up with in the early years. Giving this country’s poorest children some ideas of their own. the best possible start in life is the most effective way to The Government’s comprehensive spending review lift them out of poverty and to help them to achieve sets out £1 billion less of cuts in Government Departments. their full potential. The fairness premium is therefore The remaining plan focuses on long overdue reform of one of the most important policies of the spending a complex and byzantine welfare system that delivers review and I hope that it will be welcomed by Members unintended effects to people throughout the country—and, on both sides of the House. of course, tax rises. The important point, however, is There is no doubt that the spending review is full of that the spending review is also fair. The banking levy difficult decisions, but these are decisions that Labour will raise £2.5 billion a year. The last Government did Members shirked for the 13 years that they were in not do that, and they had 13 years in which to do it. government. These are decisions that two parties coming Indeed, under the last Government bankers and lawyers together and acting in the national interest will be often paid lower taxes than those who cleaned their taking. offices. That is something else that was left to this Government to sort out. 3.53 pm Mary Macleod: Does my hon. Friend agree with the leaders of 35 of the biggest companies around, including Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab): Given the shortness Marks & Spencer, Microsoft, Diageo and Next? They of time, I will focus on my observations as Chair of the say that they believe that Public Accounts Committee, but I cannot let the moment “Addressing the debt problem in a decisive way will improve pass without reflecting on constituency interests, particularly business and consumer confidence” in relation to housing benefit. I share the views of my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford and that (Joan Ruddock). The housing benefit policy will simply “The cost of delay…would result in almost £100 billion of not even meet the Government’s intent. It will not cut additional national debt”. housing rents in the private sector in London. If the Government wish to do that, I say to them: do not Stephen Gilbert: I thank the hon. Lady for her punish the tenants, cut the rent. The policy will not cut intervention. Not only do I agree with those companies; public spending, but it will increase homelessness in I also agree with the CBI and the International Monetary London and that will have its impact. It will not help Fund, which have commended these plans as the best people get into jobs. The very people who will be frozen way both to ensure growth and to deal with the deficit. out of London are those who come in to clean the Let me be clear. The Opposition have every right to House of Commons at 4 in the morning and who challenge and to resist the measures that the coalition cannot come in from places such as Dover. We will have Government are implementing. That is of course the more people coming into Barking as a result of these Opposition’s job, but they need to come clean with the reforms. The policy will inflame community relations in British public and tell this House and the public at large constituencies such as mine, which will simply provide what their alternative is. They will not be taken seriously more food for the extreme right, which will exploit such until we hear different ideas from them. Today so far we issues to vicious political ends. have heard special pleading on transport, child benefits, housing and myriad other topics, but we have not heard I want to talk about issues that I have observed in the anything about the measures that they would put in few months that I have been Chair of the Public Accounts place to address the significant problems that we face. Committee. Whatever the political intent, I am worried that the capacity of the Government machine to respond, The spending review has had to be tough, and of to manage the process and to realise the intended savings course we and our constituents will feel it, but there are is highly questionable. If the Government fail to deliver many positive policies that will help create a fairer, freer the vicious savings that they have planned, I fear that and more responsible country over the next few years. they will return for a series of further easy but highly One crucial area is the fairness premium that was announced damaging cuts to achieve the £81 billion target. Those by my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister. cuts might include further slashing the benefit bill, on The fairness premium involves extending 15 hours which the most vulnerable depend, or introducing charges per week of free education and care to all disadvantaged into the NHS so that it ceases to be a service that is free two-year-olds, and a £2.5 billion pupil premium, with at the point of need. 547 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 548

The record of the civil service in securing efficiency country was busted, our deficit represented about 7% of savings and value for money savings is poor. We recently GDP. Today, it stands at 11.4%. Our house is well and reviewed the performance of Departments in delivering truly economically out of order. This will not only the value for money savings required in the 2007 affect our children, who will have to pick up the strain comprehensive spending review. After two years only a in repaying the debt. It has also affected our standing in third of the savings had been achieved, and of those the world, because this country has the worst deficit in reported only a third were sustainable value for money the G20. Our deficit is worse than that of many Latin savings. The great tanker of Government was unable to American countries; Brazil has a nominal annual deficit, deliver a budget imperative. I note that the Government as of April 2010, of a little over 3%, compared with expect to deliver a further £6 billion from savings in ours of 11.4%, so we are 300% behind Brazil. It has back-office costs, but I am sceptical about whether that come to something when we have to look enviously at will be achieved. Latin America’s fiscal position. There is also a presumption that closures, mergers Much has been said about how quickly the Government and job cuts achieve immediate savings, but in the real have determined to reduce the structural deficit over the world these changes involve massive upfront costs. The lifetime of this Parliament, but many are on our side, Government’s promise that in abolishing the Audit including the OECD, the Bank of England and the Commission they would save £50 million started to Office for Budget Responsibility. Let us not forget that unravel before the ink was even dry on the letter to the Labour’s plan and proposal, as far as there is one, is to chairman of the Audit Commission announcing its halve our structural deficit over the period of the review. abolition. We saw in yesterday’s papers that Barnet, That would leave us with £100 billion in additional debt Britain’s first “Easy Council”, was embarking on a and an additional £5 billion in interest to pay on it. I see programme of savings and was planning to save £3 million Labour Members sighing, but perhaps they could tell us in the first year, yet not only is it not going to save that what they are going to cut to find that extra £5 billion or amount, but it is going to spend more on the programme what extra taxes they are going to raise to meet that of savings than it will save in the year itself. requirement. Departments operate in silos and appear to have limited understanding of the extent to which cuts in one Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): area impact on the budget of another. Let me give just Does my hon. Friend agree that the International Monetary one example. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has Fund’s statement was clear about the fact that what the planned to get tougher on fraud and theft, which we all Government are doing is right and proper, and will lead welcome, and it expects to collect a further £7 billion in to growth in the long term? taxes, but the law officers are taking a 24% cut in their budget, so the Crown Prosecution Service is far less Mel Stride: My hon. Friend is entirely correct, and likely to be able to prosecute complex tax cases. If the there is no doubt that if the Government had not taken Government do not consider the effects of the cuts on a prompt action as we did in the emergency Budget in whole-system basis, I have absolutely no doubt that my June, we would have been that close to a Greek-style Committee will see Departments passing the buck among economic meltdown. themselves for this failure. If the Government are driven by ideology and do not Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): Will the hon. intend to pursue their policies pragmatically, we will fail Gentleman explain to the House how our debt was to deliver value for money and we will waste public similar to that of Greece, given that the Debt Management money, forcing cuts elsewhere. In this respect, I offer Office in this country has been far better and we have the example of the pathways to work programme. We far better terms? The question of whether the debt is demonstrated in our report that private providers perform sustainable is what leads to crises, not the amount of far less well in delivering jobs and cost more, and that deficit, given the size of our economy. Jobcentre Plus is much more effective, yet the Government, driven by ideology, are determined to privatise that Mel Stride: The answer to that is that we came that programme. close because the credit rating agencies, such as Standard My Committee will keep a close eye on whether the & Poor’s, came that close to downgrading our triple A Government meet their own objectives and do actually status. The consequence would have been that the deliver on fairness and efficiency in the cuts they make. Government, in funding their debt through their bonds and gilts, would have had trouble getting those debt requirements away, interest rates would have risen, 3.58 pm mortgages would have gone up through the roof and Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): I have sat through the businesses on which we are counting to pull us out most of this debate with a sense of growing incredulity of the malaise that we are in would have been crippled at the collective amnesia and denial of Opposition by higher interest rates. That is the basic economics that Members who, quite simply, are unprepared to face up Labour Members fail to understand— to the reality of the fiscal disaster they have bequeathed to us to attempt to clear up. Let me just remind them of Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab) rose— some of the figures. [Interruption.] I am pleased to see that they find this so amusing: £270,000 per minute in Mel Stride: I will not give way because I have limited debt interest, £120 million a day, £43 billion per year—which time available. [Interruption.] In the great tradition of is more than we spend on education. That is a disgrace. not giving way, I will not give way after taking two Let me put this in historical context. In 1976, when interventions. One very important point is that we must another Labour Chancellor, Denis Healey, went cap in look to the private sector to create the jobs. It is true hand to the International Monetary Fund because this that the OBR has said that 490,000 jobs will be lost in 549 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 550

[Mel Stride] Central Devon (Mel Stride) said it a moment ago—it was not fair. The cuts—£81 billion a year by 2014-15—and the public sector, and there is no getting away from it. It the tax rises were not unavoidable. is also true that PricewaterhouseCoopers has suggested Every decision taken by the coalition was a political that 500,000 jobs in the private sector might go as a one, but it was the failure to understand the consequences consequence of the slimming down of the public sector. of the decisions that astonished me. Nowhere was that So we must look to growth from the private sector. more so than in the defence elements of the CSR and I am therefore very pleased that this Government the strategic defence and security review that went have had such a firm and positive focus on private along with it. The decision to cancel the Nimrod programme sector growth. We have removed national insurance for puts a huge threat over RAF Kinloss and a huge new business start-ups outside London and the south-east; question mark over RAF Lossiemouth, we will bring corporation tax down, in steps, over the next four years from 28 to 24%; and we have cut red Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con): What would tape. We have also created the regional growth fund, happen under Scottish independence? which we heard about in the Business Secretary’s statement earlier today. It involves some £1.4 billion, much of Stewart Hosie: The Parliamentary Private Secretary which is to be channelled into the very areas of the is chuntering away about Scottish independence. It is country where the private sector is weakest and the interesting, is it not? He normally wants to deprecate public sector has been strongest, and I welcome that as countries such as Ireland and Iceland, but they still sit positive action. above the UK in the world prosperity league. I shall give I also welcome the fact that the Government are him a copy of The Scotsman to look at later, before he listening to business in a way that their predecessors decides on another ill-judged sedentary intervention. never did. The Conservative party is a party that The bottom line is that those defence cuts threaten to understands business; we understand how difficult it is add to the 10,000 military job losses under Labour and to create the wealth that is needed to supply the public to the £5.6 billion military underspend in Scotland services that all in this House want. under Labour. Far more importantly, they would represent a 25% reduction in the entire military footprint in Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): Will the hon. Scotland. If the cuts go ahead, they will represent a 25% Gentleman give way? hollowing out of the entire economy of Moray. When Conservative Ministers say that we are all in it together, Mel Stride: I will not give way now, because I have it strikes me that that is not absolutely true and that it is very little time left. not absolutely fair. I am also pleased that the OBR, an independent The CSR was not just about the Scottish block but body, has stated that employment will grow in every about other UK spending decisions, yet somehow Scotland year across this plan. I know that one swallow does not was portrayed as doing better than most UK Departments. make a summer, but it is encouraging that in the last That is nothing but spin. The House of Commons quarter—the one up to the end of September—growth Library makes it clear that the Department of Health, was double that anticipated, at 0.8% as opposed to the Department for International Development, the 0.4%. That is an encouraging sign. The Opposition Department of Energy and Climate Change, the should cheer at that. They should stand up for our Department for Work and Pensions, the Ministry of country. They should feel good about the fact that we Defence, the Cabinet Office, the Treasury, the Law are improving where we are going and that we are Officers, the Northern Ireland Office, the Department beginning to make a difference—a difference that they for Culture, Media and Sport, the Foreign and never achieved. Commonwealth Office, Her Majesty’s Revenue and I want to talk briefly about fairness, which is at the Customs and the Wales Office all did better. A little heart of the CSR. I want to challenge the IFS’s point more substance and a little less spin would not go amiss. that somehow the CSR is regressive. It is to an extent, if That is important because the cuts represent £1.3 billion one considers taxation and benefits, but if one includes in cash terms next year and, above all expectations, the use of public services, it is not regressive. It is a there will be an £800 million cut in capital expenditure. progressive move. That directly threatens 12,000 Scottish jobs. It is dreadfully I welcome the fact that we are going to keep 50% as disappointing—the cuts were announced on the same the higher rate of tax, with 800,000 people coming out day as the Scottish quarter 2 GDP figures, which showed of taxation altogether, and child benefit being means-tested. Scottish growth up at 1.3%, above the 1.2% for the UK, The £2.5 billion that will be saved is exactly the amount and confirmed the decision to have direct capital investment that will go into the pupil premium to help the poorest to protect jobs during the recession. That makes it all children in our land. Those are all aspects of fairness, the more ludicrous that the Government would seek and we cannot build a society based on social justice on cuts of such magnitude before recovery is secure. a mountain of debt. I commend the review to the House. Rehman Chishti: Did the hon. Gentleman respond to the Government’s spending challenge with his own ideas 4.5 pm about where the savings should be made, with £44 billion Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The one thing as a starting point? that I would say about the CSR is that—no matter how many times the Chancellor said it during his statement, Stewart Hosie: What I did, possibly before the hon. no matter how many times the Chief Secretary said it Gentleman was a Member of the House, was to table today and no matter how loudly the hon. Member for amendments to previous legislation to set out a much 551 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 552 more sensible framework for a proper programme of Kwasi Kwarteng: I forget—how many general elections fiscal consolidation, based on the successful New Zealand did Baroness Thatcher win? Will my hon. Friend remind model, rather than the flawed Canadian model that his the House? party and the Liberal party are now following. Richard Harrington: Not enough. One of the things that I find extraordinary, which the The most important thing is that the cuts are made Chief Secretary could not explain earlier, was the lack sensibly, and that the bloated management hierarchies of detail in the Government’s plans. The Department of local government look at themselves and realise that for Transport is expected, among other things, to reduce this is a chance for much of the reduction in their field its administrative costs by one third—£100 million a to come through management. Let me explain. In year. The Department for Business, Innovation and Hertfordshire county council—[Interruption.] Yes, Skills is expected, among other things, to reduce its Conservative, and proud to be Conservative. administrative costs by £400 million. In the Home Office, the UK Border Agency is expected to cut its In Hertfordshire county council the expected cuts, support function costs by £500 million. which have yet to be implemented, will be enhanced by the fact that £150 million of taxpayers’ money has been I am not necessarily saying that that cannot be done: saved by sensible management changes that hardly affect what I am asking is how. Which offices will close, how the front line—£150 million—yet in my local council, many jobs will be lost, how many staff will be sacked, Watford, a council with a turnover of £18 million, we and where are they located? Of the 42,000 job losses in have a chief executive who is paid roughly the same as the military—the 25,000 civilian and the 17,000 uniformed the Prime Minister, a mayor who is paid exactly the —which ones are those, in which units, where are they same as Members of the House, and an entourage of currently based, and when will they go? Why would not management levels that defy belief compared to anything or could not the Chief Secretary give us that information in private business life. today? It gives the impression that the Government are making it up as they go along. I was very pleased to hear what the Prime Minister said yesterday about growth being so important, but I I am aware that time is short and I know that many remind Opposition Members that growth is achieved other Members want to speak, so I have a specific question not by spending money that the Government do not for Treasury Ministers. Page 50 of the comprehensive have and never wonder how to repay, but by businesses, spending review makes it clear that ranging from the smallest to the largest, having the “interest rates on Public Works Loan Board (PWLB) loans have confidence in the economy to decide to expand, to raise been increased to 1 per cent above UK government gilts.” money through friends and family or the stock market, It goes on to add, unsurprisingly: to borrow money from banks that are able to lend it to “The amount of self-financed capital expenditure is forecast to them and to use every resource that they have to employ fall by 17 per cent over the four years.” extra people. I have every confidence in this Government, This will bring in to the Government, according to the and it is most important that we reward people who table on page 12, £1.3 billion. That will be about £120 million create jobs. Those are the people who are at a premium, from Scotland. and those are the people who have been stifled in Will the Minister please confirm that there will be a the past. requirement in Scotland for another £120 million of There has been lots of talk about the Government cuts, and £1.3 billion of cuts throughout the whole of making banks lend more money, and I commend the the UK, in order to find the money to pay the extra new funds that have been discussed. The new equity £1.3 billion in interest charges because of the increase scheme, which the banks are putting together to provide on Public Works Loan Board loans? I would be grateful £1.5 billion of equity for business, is a very good idea, for confirmation of that today. and some of the schemes that the previous Government started and this Government are reforming and expanding 4.12 pm are of course commendable. However, the real point is that, unless the deficit is dealt with not just in this Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): Like many hon. country but elsewhere, banks will have to keep on Members, I have listened all afternoon to the debate. If lending money to Governments. Government debt has everyone examined the matter, they would know that stifled banks here and all over the world. In the US the the comprehensive spending review was necessary. The argument used to be, “The deficit does not matter”, but cuts amount to taking us back to 2007 expenditure it does, because banks start lending money to business levels. I will not repeat the arguments that we have in quantity when they have confidence in the future and heard this afternoon denying or not denying the effects. do not have to lend to Governments. We should not forget that. Mr Hanson rose— The greatest thing about the comprehensive spending review is that it deals with the problem on a one-off Richard Harrington: Not at the moment. basis. It is not being shoved under the carpet, put off or I shall concentrate on two points that I do not believe held over until after a general election, and for that have been mentioned. The first is the importance of reason, above all others, the CSR is the most fundamental how the cuts are implemented. My fear is that, for and best thing that the Government could have done. political reasons, some public bodies and some councils The problems need grasping. The world of delusion have every incentive to make the cuts go right to the that we have lived in for the past few years—the world bottom line. I remember how, in the years of the of expanding public expenditure, with managers appearing Conservative Government from 1979 onwards, all over the place at a cost to the public purse that Mrs Thatcher’s cuts, job reductions and so on were used taxpayers cannot afford—is coming to an end, and I for politically by opposing parties. one am delighted about that. 553 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 554

4.17 pm to see their personal financial situation worsen considerably. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): In the short Its figures show a 60% cut—or, in real terms, a 63% cut time that is available to me, I shall deal with a couple of —in cash terms in comparison with the 2008-2011 aspects of the CSR, particularly its impact on my own national affordable housing programme. Where will the region, the north-east, and look at some of the issues of Government find the money to plug the gap created by fairness, which Members on both sides have raised this these cuts? They will raise the rents on the poorest in afternoon. society to 80% of market value, and this will end up displacing thousands of families from our cities. The The CSR has no credible strategy for growing our Chancellor uses the word “fairness”, but it is a concept economy in order to pay down the debt. Indeed, it will that he does not seem to grasp. make the poorest pay for the damage that those at the very top of the financial ladder inflicted on our economy. The Chancellor has criticised Labour for not being As we know, from the statements and Members’ straight with the public, and he often accused us of contributions that we have heard, children and families hiding the details of Budgets, but he will not be straight will be asked to bear a greater burden than the cavalier with the British people. His spending review will leave bankers who caused the crash in the first place. more people out of work, it will stop in its track the recovery of regions such as ours in the north, it will Research by IPPR North has shown that the economy decimate key local services for the most vulnerable, and in the north grew substantially during the period of the it will force those on low incomes out of our cities. previous Labour Government. However, the impact of the global credit crisis and economic recession has, 4.23 pm sadly, had a disproportionately greater effect in those same areas, including my own. Caterpillar, one of our Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I am a member of the flagship private sector companies, reduced its labour Public Accounts Committee. Sadly, the Chair left the force during that period by almost 50%. I am pleased to Chamber a few minutes ago, but we still have some say that there are signs of recovery in that regard, other members here. It is the Committee’s task, usually however, and I am doing everything I can to assist. twice a week, to listen to a saga of Government The view of the IPPR in considering the decisions on mismanagement and overspending: some of the cases jobs, welfare, capital investment and public services that we hear about are quite breathtaking, running into made by the Government in the comprehensive spending billions of pounds. I could give lots of examples, but review, and how they will impact on the north-south those who are interested should take a look at the divide, is that National Audit Office reports. It is absolutely clear “things look set to become significantly worse”. from those reports that there is massive potential to save money in the operation of government. On the general outlook of the CSR strategy, it says that I would like specifically to talk about the report on “it lacks an equally rigorous and challenging strategy for economic growth”. the previous comprehensive spending review in 2007, which required sustainable value-for-money savings of That is the truth of the coalition’s plan. £35 billion over three years, a period which ends next The acid test of whether the CSR works is, first, April. That illustrates the phoniness of saying that whether it is fair and, secondly, whether it will deliver everything was fine before the credit crunch. The previous economic growth. Labour Members, myself included, Government clearly knew that spending was getting out believe that the CSR does not provide a credible growth of hand, and a year before the credit crunch they strategy—certainly not for my region, the north-east. looked for £35 billion of savings. It is interesting that The impact is compounded by a series of announcements, that is nearly half of what is proposed in the current CSR. including the disbanding of our regional development So how is it going, judged against the 2007 review? agency, One North East, and the axing of the regional Some £15 billion of savings have so far been identified, Minister; in my right hon. Friend the Member for but when the National Audit Office examined the matter Newcastle upon Tyne East (Mr Brown), we had an it said that 18% of that did not represent improvements excellent advocate. For the life of me, I cannot see that in value for money, and it rejected 44% on the basis that much money is saved by doing away with a regional the Departments did not have the cost and performance Minister—it seems to be a symbolic gesture not to have information to underwrite their claims, so only 38%—£6 such a person arguing the case for my region from the billion—has actually been saved. It is clear that the Government Benches. We have also seen the axing of current spending review has to be tougher because of the Government office for the north-east—GONE the failure to deliver the previous spending review. As has gone. the report that we agreed just yesterday in the Public The north-east is more reliant on the public sector Accounts Committee states, if Departments had been than other regions, and about 46% of working women successful in making real savings of 3%, fewer painful work in public sector occupations—one of the highest cuts would be necessary now. percentages in any region of the UK. In fact, the proportion in my constituency is even higher. The job Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): I thank my losses arising as a direct result of the CSR will unfairly colleague from the north-east for giving way. Does he target these women. have any idea how much it will cost the taxpayer to clear In the very short time that I have left, I want to focus up the social consequences of the Government’s decisions on the effects of the CSR on social housing. The in the north-east? National Housing Federation has recognised that it is likely that some of the poorest and most vulnerable in Ian Swales: Clearly the north-east has already suffered, society will be worst affected by the CSR, and those and no doubt there will be more cuts there. The decisions who access services from housing associations are likely about how much it will cost will come out in the overall 555 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 556 review, and I do not have a specific figure, but I do know The Federation of Small Businesses, of which I am a that the 2007 comprehensive spending review showed a member, believes that a missing link in the Government’s litany of management failure. There were no baselines deficit programme is the need to create growth by against which to measure, so we did not even know widening the tax base, creating more businesses and whether savings were being made. There was no radical incentivising small firms to grow and innovate. I agree. thinking, with few of the savings representing major As the shadow Chancellor said last week: departures from current thinking. That was because the “Without growth, the job of getting the deficit down becomes Labour Government did not allow input from civil impossible.”—[Official Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 968.] servants, so it was a top-down exercise. They did not Even after today’s statement, we are still waiting to hear listen to the people who were actually doing the work, a growth strategy that has any new thinking in it. and I am sure the current Government will do better than that. There was no proper reporting framework to It has been well documented that the Government’s review progress and there were no milestones—things approach will throw 1 million people out of work, but that would be taken as read in the private sector. There I want to take the Chancellor to task about part of his was no personal accountability. We ask questions about speech last week. He said: that time after time in the PAC—did anybody lose their “Of course, there is a very understandable concern about the job as a result of some fiasco? The answer is almost reduction in the total public sector head count that will result always no. from the measures in the spending review.”—[Official Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 951.] In the NAO’s July report, the Treasury admitted that He used the phrase “head count”, but he was talking it did not have the capability to deliver value-for-money about people’s lives, jobs and futures. He should have programmes in full, and that needs to be addressed the decency not to talk about people’s futures in such an urgently. I hope that my hon. Friends on the Front insensitive way—off-hand, impersonal and using the Bench will learn the lessons of that report and ensure phrase “head count”. that the comprehensive spending review is driven effectively in the new environment. We need a better framework, We make a fundamental mistake by trying to separate clear personal accountability, proper baselines, clear the public and private sectors because, as we have milestones of progress and detailed monitoring. As the heard, they are intrinsically linked and mutually reliant. NAO stated, the Treasury cannot just reduce budgets The construction industry is significantly of the private and then walk away. I hope that there will be a hands-on sector but it survives with a reliance on a large state approach and that we will deliver the savings that have commitment to improving our infrastructure, as under been set out. the previous Labour Government, with investment in hospitals and the Building Schools for the Future I deplore the fact that the manufacturing industry programme. PricewaterhouseCoopers suggests that more went from representing 22% of the economy to 11% than 100,000 construction workers will lose their jobs as under the previous Government, and that a recent BBC a result of this Government’s actions—that is more Experian study showed that my area was 319th of than 5% of the total employment in this sector and five 324 in the country economically; that Hartlepool, across times the loss expected in the financial services. the river, was 314th, and Middlesbrough, next to mine, 324th. I see my fellow local MP, the hon. Member for There are many ways to support businesses such as Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom those in the construction industry, one of the best of Blenkinsop), in his place. We need take no lessons from which is having a well-trained and efficient work force. the previous Government about economic development As my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition in the north-east. has suggested, that could be done by offering tax cuts to employers who pay a living wage as an incentive to I welcome today’s announcements on the Tees valley develop the skills of the people who work for them. local enterprise partnership, the regional growth fund Preventing our brightest students from following their and the green investment bank, and I look forward to a chosen career path is not the best way of achieving revival of the local economy under this Government. those goals, and the cuts that will lead to reduced in-job training such as Train to Gain, which has supported 4.28 pm more than 1 million workers in the UK, will make the job market stagnate. Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): We have heard a lot today about the impact that the My right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition CSR will have on some of the most vulnerable people in said recently: society. I support the view that it cannot be acceptable “There have been…too few in British politics who speak up for that families are expected to pay more than the banks, small business.” and that the public and private sector workers who did Well, the genie is out of the bottle now, because my not cause the crisis will pay more and lose their jobs, right hon. Friend saw fit to give me the business brief while the banks are treated lightly. for the Opposition. I want to take this opportunity to Among the doom and gloom of last week’s statement, stress that, given my small business background, this is there was a real prospect that the Chancellor would lay one voice that will support the ambitions of small out a strategy for growth that would support our small businesses, support the contribution they can make to businesses, which are the real drivers of the UK economy. the economy and skills of the UK and support my right He failed to grasp that opportunity, and I am not the hon. Friend in his endeavour to stand up for small only one who thinks so. Even this week, the Prime businesses in the UK. Minister and the Business Secretary have both failed to The comprehensive spending review did nothing to deliver a credible growth plan not just for the UK but stimulate funding for small businesses, nothing to provide for its small businesses. an opportunity for small businesses to grow and nothing 557 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 558

[Gordon Banks] believe that the proposals on welfare spending show a new sense of realism. Despite Opposition Members’ to allow small businesses to grow their skills base. Quite claims that they are ideological, they are clearly right. the opposite, in fact: it takes money away from small The Government are committed to a stimulus for businesses. Why? Because it puts 1 million people on the business. As someone who ran a business for 25 years, I dole. It prevents small businesses from growing. Why? have every confidence that the private sector will rise to Because it puts 1 million people on the dole. And it the challenge. We are taking steps to reduce the regulatory shrinks the skills base of small businesses. Why? Because burden on business and to provide a stimulus, never it puts 1 million people on the dole. It is clear from the more so than through the announcement today of the CSR that the Government do not value small businesses new local enterprise partnership in Coventry and in the UK, but in this House in the future there will be a Warwickshire, whose size will be manageable in contrast voice that engages with them, and it will be on the with the cumbersome Advantage West Midlands. I believe Opposition side. that the LEP will set out economic priorities for the area that I represent. 4.33 pm The Government are acting responsibly and are in Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Eight days have passed touch. The attitude across the country was for me since the Chancellor stood at the Dispatch Box and summed up by a gentleman called George Smith, whose made it clear why it was necessary to take decisions that daughter intends to go to university next year. He was many on both sides of the Chamber find difficult. We talking about the additional costs that his family would have heard more today from the Chief Secretary to the have to bear to send their daughter to university, but he Treasury about the scale of the problem and why reducing could have been talking about many aspects of our our massive Budget deficit should be the country’s public services. In The Sunday Times of 17 October, primary concern. We simply cannot go on borrowing he said: £1 in every £4 spent—paying £120 million every day in “I’m philosophical about it. Everybody and his brother is debt interest alone. We know that failure to take action going to have to start paying more for all sorts of things. Much as would lead to our paying £4 billion more in debt interest we may think it’s unjust and unfair, it’s really a long overdue day alone by the next election. That money would go to of reckoning.” foreign creditors and would help to pay for their schools and hospitals rather than being spent on ours. 4.38 pm We know that had Labour remained in government it would have cut spending, so the debate is about the pace Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): I shall address two of the cuts that are about to be made, not whether they issues: first, whether the Government have kept their should be made. That became clear to me in discussions commitment to protect the NHS budget, and secondly, that I held on Friday in my constituency with an how their proposed reforms will affect the NHS’s ability organisation that gives a clue to its aims and objectives to live within its budget in the next four years. in its name—Rugby Against the Cuts. Its representatives Before the election, the Government promised that came to see me on the premise that the Government the NHS budget would increase in real terms over the should take no action to deal with the Budget deficit. spending review period, and last week the Chancellor After our discussions, however, I believe they accepted announced the headline figure that the NHS will receive that some form of action might be necessary. The group 0.1% more than inflation in each of the next four years. issued a press release, which stated: That is the lowest four-year increase for the NHS since “Mark Pawsey listened as we outlined our fears, and said he 1951 to 1956. would be happy to meet us again to monitor developments…at The Chancellor also announced that £1 billion from least our MP was prepared to listen…Although we did not seem the NHS budget will be transferred to local councils to to change his views, overall, the lobby was worth organizing”. spend on social care. Social care services play a vital Opposition Members will be unsurprised at that last role in improving health and reducing NHS costs, for sentence. example by helping older people to stay mobile and I will maintain that dialogue because it is important. independent in their own homes. However, the £1 billion We have offered an honest opinion to the electorate, going to local councils is not ring-fenced, so there is no which is why in the past eight days my hon. Friends guarantee that it will be spent on social care, especially have not had massive postbags criticising the measures when councils face a 28% cut in their budgets over the in the spending review—[Interruption.] Well, many of next four years. The spending review removed a further the proposals were contained in the Conservative party £5.5 billion from the NHS by taking its underspend. manifesto, so it is no surprise that we are taking the The NHS has accumulated £1.8 billion of capital action that we are taking. We are bringing forward the underspend and £3.7 billion of revenue underspend— date at which the state pension will begin to rise, stopping money that it would normally be allowed to keep to the most well-off children receiving child tax credits reinvest in patient care or to help deal with future and cutting spending on trust funds. overspends. But the spending review abolished the year-end Last week, in addition to meeting that protest group I flexibility for the first time. took a survey on to the streets of my constituency. In a Far from the Government protecting the NHS budget, poll, 87% of the people to whom we spoke said they the fine print of the Green Book shows that they will thought it right and fair that the Government cut their reduce the NHS’s budget by 0.5% during the spending expenditure at this time. It is clear that from the outset review period. These cuts come after a period of significant our objectives should be to ensure that people are better increases in NHS funding, from some 6.6% of GDP in off in work. A poll in The Sunday Times on 24 October 1997 to 8.7% in 2009-10. While those increases are showed that 57% supported cutting welfare benefits. I substantial, NHS spending as a proportion of GDP 559 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 560 remains below the OECD average, and pressures on the economic conditions for the next generation of global NHS budget will increase because of our ageing population, competitors and providing support for the all-important new technologies and rising expectations. Meeting those small and medium-sized enterprise sector. challenges while continuing to provide universal health Rebalancing the economy also means that there will care free at the point of use means that the NHS will need to be a greater focus on the regions outside London need to make big improvements in productivity over the and the south-east. There has been much talk about next four years. The chief executive of the NHS has said that in the Chamber today. There is no question that the that that will be the equivalent of £20 billion of savings north-west will benefit from the strong resurgence predicted or some 5% of the NHS’s budget in each of the next in the private sector. Over the past decade in the north-west, four years. The NHS has never achieved that, under any the number of jobs in the public sector has grown much Government. faster than in the private sector, and since 1999, the The question for coalition Members is whether the number of people employed in the public sector has proposed reforms to the NHS will help or hinder in grown by 100,000—a massive 17%. In contrast, over the making those substantial productivity and efficiency same period, job creation in the private sector has savings. The Government are about to embark on major broadly flatlined, only increasing by 24,000—just 1%. structural change to the NHS, despite promising before Recent announcements in Macclesfield will sadly lead the election that there would be no more top-down to job losses. The Cheshire building society is closing reorganisations in the NHS. GPs will be given responsibility down its back-office operations, and more recently it for commissioning £80 billion of NHS services, and has been announced that nearby BAE Woodford is to PCTs and strategic health authorities will be abolished. close. However, we are working hard to strengthen the Even when major reorganisations are well organised, local economy. It will clearly benefit from much stronger they usually mean that health services stand still for a growth in the wider economy, which is why it is encouraging period, rather than progress. If structural change is to see private sector job creation improving, with a poorly managed, patient care and finances suffer. 308,000 increase in the UK over the past three months. I fully support involving clinicians more in decisions The increase in the north-west was 28,000, and for the last about how services are shaped, but changes such as GP year,that figure comes to 40,000. That is encouraging news. fundholding took time and significant management I am delighted that the Government are looking to support to develop. The scale and pace of change that build on those positive developments. I fully support the Government are pressing ahead with pose significant the decision to scrap Labour’s tax on jobs, because it risks. Major structural reforms are not cost-free, and will help businesses to save £340 million in the north-west. the King’s Fund estimates that these reforms will cost The Government have gone further by giving new businesses £3 billion over the next four years. Many patient groups new national insurance holidays outside the south-east and professional organisations are rightly worried that worth £5,000 over the next three years, which could help having yet another major structural reorganisation, when up to 69,000 businesses in the north-west. The regional the NHS faces the biggest financial challenge of its life, growth fund will also help to stimulate growth and will not be good for patient care or for finances. I ask provide sustainable private sector jobs in the north-west, the Government to think again. and the new local enterprise partnerships, such as the Cheshire and Warrington LEP in my area, will put in 4.43 pm place private sector-led recovery plans to stimulate economic growth, not just in major metropolitan areas such as David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): This is a vital Manchester and Liverpool, but in Macclesfield, east debate, and the comprehensive spending review and its Cheshire and right across the north-west. delivery will define this Parliament. The spending review Labour’s opposition to the CSR shows how out of charts a course that tackles the record budget deficit touch it is with reality. The only path it seems to offer is that we have inherited, it rebalances the shape of the to ignore the deficit, to continue to borrow, to spend economy and it sets out a path that will lead to lasting, and to rack up yet more debt. That is a risk that we on sustainable economic growth. the Government Benches are not prepared to take. We To achieve sustainable growth, we need to rebalance are taking the right approach to dealing with the deficit, the economy. That will mean less reliance on the public but clearly there is more work ahead, and I think that sector. It is unsustainable for public spending to account we can draw inspiration from one of the great entrepreneurs for nearly 48% of GDP,which clearly crowds out investment in Macclesfield’s history—Charles Roe, from the 18th from the private sector. That is why the Government are century—whose memorial in Christ church carries a right to bring public spending down to nearer 40% of quote of his that reads: GDP by the end of this Parliament. “Difficulties to others were incitements to action”. The rebalanced economy must also be less dependent We would do well to adopt that same spirit in responding on financial services. In the last decade, the banking to these challenging times, rather than the bleating we sector was allowed to become far too dominant. We hear from the Labour Benches. need to ensure that future economic growth is more broadly based and not as closely linked to the performance of the City. Instead, we need to encourage the growth of 4.48 pm high value-added manufacturing and high-tech industries. AstraZeneca and its skilled work force is vital to Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): At the Macclesfield’s local economy, and it shows that we can beginning of this debate, my hon. Friend the Member still successfully make things in this country and compete for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) quoted an article in The Wall in global marketplaces such as pharmaceuticals. It is Street Journal today that reported good to see that the Government are creating the right “panic stations in the Treasury” 561 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 562

[Mr Andy Slaughter] That is the housing situation that we face, and for hon. Members who want to know what “intermediate at finding out that the reduction in child benefit for rent” means, I looked at my Conservative council’s higher earners was “unenforceable”. It continued: planning policies, which were announced last month. I “At root is a problem that should have been apparent to those found that the term excludes anybody on under £20,000 designing the policy, if detailed advice had been sought from civil a year, which is 40% of my constituents and most of the servants before it was announced at Conservative party conference.” people in housing need, but includes those on earnings My hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) of up to £79,400 a year—people in the top 2% of referred to himself—in all humility, I am sure—asking earnings. It is the Government’s policy that only Sir Andrew Turnbull from the Treasury Committee this intermediate housing will be built over the next 10 years. morning: Where does that leave my constituents? Where does it “Do you think it’s accurate to describe the UK as being on the leave constituents such as the one whose case I was brink of bankruptcy?” dealing with in my office this morning? That constituent The response was: “No I don’t.” Both those bits of is living with three teenage children in a highly damp hot-off-the-press news— one-bedroom flat, but has received the usual response from the local authority, which says: Kwasi Kwarteng: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? “The average expected waiting time for a three bedroomed accommodation…is projected between 8-10 years. This is however only a projection but reflects the reality of…Social Housing Mr Slaughter: No, I have not got time—actually I waiting time as dictated by demand against availability.” will, because it gives me more time. What tenants such as my constituent are being told is, “Give up your secured or assured tenancy, and take an Kwasi Kwarteng: I thought I was attending one of insecure tenancy in the private sector. Then you may get those rallies in North Korea, so reluctant are Labour some more space.” Up until now, people have not been Members to engage in debate. However, I thank the told—they are being told now—that such accommodation hon. Gentleman for giving way. My question is very is likely to be outside the borough, because of the straightforward: does he acknowledge that the deficit restrictions on housing benefit. The situation now is was a problem that had to be dealt with? that my constituents are being told that if they want decent accommodation, they should go into the private Mr Slaughter: What a stupid question, although I sector and be re-housed a significant distant outside the thank the hon. Gentleman very much for the extra time borough. that he has given me. Anybody else? No? Okay, let us move on. That is the reality of housing policy under the CSR. It is the reality for a constituent who came to see me this What I have described shows that it is politics rather week, a teaching assistant taking £900 a week net and than economics that has driven the CSR. Far from living in a shared room in a flat in Shepherd’s Bush, for fairness driving the CSR, it is a particular type of Tory which she pays £650 a month. She gets some housing ideology that has driven it. Nowhere is that more true benefit, but she can hardly make ends meet. Next year, than in housing, to which I shall confine my remarks she will not be able to, because of the cuts in housing and which some of my hon. Friends have also addressed. benefit, and she will have to leave her job and move out The Under-Secretary of State for Communities and of the area. That is the reality for people in my constituency. Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove While we are talking about apologies, perhaps someone (Andrew Stunell) apologised to the House earlier today— else ought to apologise. The first interview that the and rightly so—for inappropriate remarks that he made Prime Minister gave after the election was to The Daily in the debate in Westminster Hall on the CSR and Telegraph. The article says: housing yesterday, when he said that Opposition Members “He was still angry over ‘appalling’ Labour lies that he blamed had spread “lies and deceit”. I am glad that he for preventing celebrated candidates such as Shaun Bailey winning apologised—it was good of him to do that—but the in marginal seats”, irony is that he made those comments in the context of and quotes Prime Minister as saying: the most selective quoting from the National Housing “‘They were telling people in Hammersmith they were going to Federation’s brief. He managed to find two sentences in have their council house taken away by the Tories.’” an excoriating brief that he thought supported the Government’s case. Let me read the bits either side of Well, they are, and I will tell the House why. That the bit that he quoted: candidate is at least honest, because he said at the Tory party conference: “This is a 60% cut in cash terms in comparison with the 2008-11 programme and in real terms a 63% cut. We are extremely “Inner city seats are so hard to win because Labour has filled disappointed that the Government has chosen to impose such them with poor people who are desperate and dependant on the significant cuts in capital funding…In an attempt to fill the gap state, so they vote for a party that they think is of the state.” caused by these significant capital cuts the Government is proposing That is why those people are being punished. They vote to allow housing associations…to set rents on new lettings at Labour, and they want to live and work in the inner city, levels between the current social rent up to a maximum of 80% of but that is not good enough for the Conservatives. That market rent.” is what my constituents are facing, for ideological reasons The briefing continued: of gerrymandering and social engineering. “However, we understand that any funds generated under this new ‘intermediate rent’…will only be allowed to be used to build 4.54 pm more homes at this new intermediate rent and…across the four year spending period no homes will be built for social rent using Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I have had the these funds…there will be no further construction of social pleasure of listening to speeches all afternoon. In a way, homes until at least 2015.” they could be summed up by saying that Labour Members 563 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 564 believe we are all going to hell in a hand cart, whereas Let me make another couple of important points Government Members believe we are heading towards about this comprehensive spending review and welfare the sunny uplands. My own view is that we are somewhere reform. Just last week, I stayed at the Premier Inn—as in between, but I am a little closer to the Government side. we all know, that very salubrious place across the river. Tony Blair apparently said to the right hon. Member I have stayed there about 20 times since the election. I for Birkenhead (Mr Field) in 1997, “Go away and think have met about 20 to 30 members of staff, and very nice the unthinkable on welfare reform.” He promptly went they are too, but not one of them is an indigenous black away and thought the unthinkable, and a key part of it or white British person. Not one! What is going on? I was recognition that benefits had to follow low incomes spoke last week to a friend who runs a café in Eastbourne. for people to get back into work and that benefits cost He said, “Stephen, I keep trying to get people to work far too much—and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer and I offer them jobs, but they keep telling me that they and subsequent Prime Minister crushed it on the spot. cannot accept them because they will lose their benefit So what is happening under the comprehensive spending if they work for more than 16 hours a week.” What is review? It looks as if welfare reform is heading towards going on? We have to forget all the backwards and thinking the unthinkable. My understanding is that an forwards; I profoundly believe that we have got to extra £2 billion is to be included within the universal change the system. It is not only inefficient, it is profoundly benefit, which will mean that people on low salaries can cruel. take a lot of their benefit with them. I will obviously As I have the Minister here, I want to flag up a number need to check the fine detail as it gets presented over the of areas of the CSR about which I have concerns. The next few months, but if that is right, it will make a first relates to Equitable Life. I commend the Government profound difference to many hundreds of thousands for their payments to Equitable Life policyholders; they of people. came forward when the previous Government did not. Let me provide an example. A few years ago, I had to However, the payment of £1.5 billion could have been do something in Eastbourne. Although it is clearly the higher. Considering that the second instalment of best constituency in the whole country, this was a little £500 million is going to be paid in the second term, I bit of a nightmare, which I suspect other Members certainly believe that we should increase and expand it. might have experienced at some time in their lives. I We have a moral duty to do so. refer to judging a beautiful baby contest. Trust me, it is My second area of concern is small businesses. I a nightmare. How do we ensure that we do not win only spent a few years working as a consultant with the the winning parents’ votes and lose all the others of the Federation of Small Businesses in south London before babies that we do not choose? I recall coming across a I got elected to this place. Small businesses broadly particular lady whom I knew. She looked about 50, but support the comprehensive spending review, but they was probably in her late 30s. She was holding a baby of need the Government to be really active on cutting about six months or less. Standing next to her was her bureaucracy and setting small businesses free. I urge the daughter—probably 17 or 18, but she looked a lot Government to do that. I believe that this is a fair older—and the grandmother, who was completely comprehensive spending review. It is a challenging one, inebriated. This was at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. As and I appreciate that we shall have to see what happens I looked at that child, I have to admit that behind the over the next few years, but I commend it to the House. veneer of the politician’s smile, I felt utter fury because I knew that I could write that baby’s curriculum vitae 5pm right away—it was a goner. I find that absolutely unacceptable. If the changes to welfare reform, when Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Last week’s followed through by people coming off benefit and comprehensive spending review delivered cuts beyond going into initially low-paid jobs, mean that they can the dreams of even Margaret Thatcher that were welcomed take their benefits with them, it will be a rational with glee from the Tory Benches. Those cuts will really decision to get a job. impact on our children and schools. I have been inundated with e-mails from teachers in Stockton North, and from Chris Williamson: If the hon. Gentleman is so concerned teachers in neighbouring Stockton South who teach about low-paid workers, will he not concede that cuts to children from my constituency. They are incensed by housing benefit will make it much more difficult for the axing of the schools sports partnership. The head many of them to hold down their jobs? Contrary to his teacher of a special school in my constituency, Abbey assertion that the policies he supports will help people Hill school and technology college, Clare Devine, wrote to get into work, they will throw more low-paid workers to me to say: out of the jobs that they are undertaking at the moment. “I fully endorse the partnership’s work in transforming PE and Stephen Lloyd: The reality is that when a nation has school sport, and believe that the withdrawal of funding is a reached a place where it is acceptable and normal for betrayal of the Olympic legacy to inspire young people to take rents upwards of £30,000, £35,000 or £40,000 a year to part in PE and sport.” be paid by the state, something has to give. I see the What is that head teacher going to say to a child with challenges, but I am hopeful that the Government will the most challenging physical and other special needs come up with a greater amount of discretionary money, who enjoys participating in sport through the partnership particularly for places like London. In principle, however, but can no longer do so? Perhaps the Minister will offer I support the narrative. We need to realise how crazy the us some ideas. vast majority of working people view the fact that they Today, I have chosen to focus specifically on what the could never rent a £20,000-a-year flat in a million years, cuts will mean to the Cleveland fire service, which serves yet the state allows rentals for much more than that. Teesside and Hartlepool. Last Friday, I met the chief Forgive me, but I genuinely believe that anyone supporting fire officer, who outlined exactly how dangerous the that lives on a different planet. cuts announced in the comprehensive spending review 565 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 566

[Alex Cunningham] risk in the whole of Europe. Firefighters, workers and ordinary families whose homes surround our industrial will be. I also met real firefighters in Billingham in my sites are being put at risk by these arbitrary cuts. I hope constituency, in their fire station on the edge of Europe’s that the Government will think again about that risk biggest fire risk—a huge chemical and related industrial and the way in which they are adding to it, because lives complex. The Cleveland fire authority has already made are at stake. cumulative efficiencies of £1.8 million over the past three years. The savings have been officially recognised 5.5 pm by the Department for Communities and Local Government. This is taking place against a background Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): I congratulate of improved outcomes, including the greatest reduction the Chancellor and his team on beginning the process in primary fires nationally. of righting what has been wrong for the past 13 years. The comprehensive spending review reduced the revenue After those 13 years, we find ourselves in circumstances support grant from central Government for fire and in which, for many people, it is better to be on benefit rescue authorities by 25% over the next four years. The than to be in work. I listened earlier for a word of effect on Cleveland will be significant, given that 67% of apology for the record deficit that the Labour party had its budget comes from the revenue support grant, with created, and for any plan it might suggest to get us out the rest coming from council tax. A 25% cut in Cleveland of it or even suggestions of cuts that it would make in equates to a reduction in the overall budget of almost public expenditure. We are still waiting for the answers. £6 million. Our firemen and women put their lives on I shall confine my remarks to two aspects of the the line every time the bell goes. They accept their CSR. The first is reform of the benefits system. We have responsibilities quietly and get on with the job, yet they heard much from Opposition Members, and from people will now face a greater risk to their personal safety if outside the House, about housing benefit, which is one numbers are cut and resources stretched way beyond of the benefits that need fundamental reform. It is any reasonable limit. We have already seen deaths in horrendously complicated. It is paid on a daily basis, other parts of the country that have been blamed on with tapers which mean that if people obtain work they cuts. Is the Minister prepared to pay with even more deaths? immediately lose the benefit. It has therefore become a The Cleveland fire service area hosts 12% of all the positive disincentive to work. The principle that we are COMAH—control of major accident hazards—regulated adopting as a Government is that it should always be sites in England and Wales, yet it is a net loser under the better to work than to receive benefits. I strongly support current funding formula, which has seen an increase the cap and, indeed, the gradual withdrawal of housing of just 2% across three years. The fire service in benefit from people who refuse to work. Nottinghamshire has received an increase of 19%. On We must also ensure that there are job opportunities top of this, the service is now being asked to cope with in the private sector, and opportunities for people to be the new 25% cut. The chief fire officer is not confident trained to take those jobs. I support the Work programme that cuts on this scale can be made through efficiency that the Government are implementing, because it will savings alone, and believes that the service will be bring about a fundamental change in British society compromised if personnel and equipment are reduced. that we all want to see. Lives should not be put at risk. I am told that a fully staffed fire engine costs in the region of £800,000 a year It is currently proposed that the housing benefit cap to staff. My fear is that, with £6 million of cuts, front-line should apply to people paying £20,000 a year in rent. services will be badly hit. The local firefighters whom I That is £35,000 in pre-tax income. Given the other met last week had a clear message for the Government: benefits that claimants are likely to have accrued, they we have now cut right through the fat and we are down would have to earn a salary of about £50,000 before to the bone. We cannot cut any more. We simply cannot they would replace their lost benefit income. If that is afford to remove fire engines against this risk. not an incentive not to work, I do not know what is. We must change the whole philosophy of housing benefit, I want to remind Ministers of the Flixborough disaster and the basis of its operation. of 1 June 1974. It happened in an area that is not dissimilar to my own constituency and other parts of A system that taxes people with one hand and gives Teesside. We saw what disaster meant that day, and we them benefits with the other cannot be right. It is far saw the tremendous work done by fire crews. We need better to lift people out of taxation—as this Government to know that our fire services have the people and have done—and give them more of their own money to equipment that they need in order to respond to potential spend as they wish than to tax them and give them disaster, but the Government are turning their back on benefits at the same time. We have an opportunity to that need. simplify the whole process. I strongly support such I hope that the Minister responsible for the fire action, and I hope that we will move rapidly to a form service will accept my written invitation to see these of universal benefits rather than the horrendously challenges for himself, and will think again about the complicated arrangements that existed under the last cuts to which he has agreed. I am particularly anxious Labour Government. I trust that they were the last ever for authorities such as Cleveland which have already Labour Government. delivered efficiency savings to be given a level of protection. I applaud this Government for their prompt and firm There is only so much money to be saved through action to settle the Equitable Life dispute once and for efficiencies, and sooner rather than later the cuts will hit all. For 10 years the Labour Government prevented front-line fire services. Equitable Life policyholders from receiving the It is absurd that our fire authority is being forced to compensation that was due to them, which was a disgraceful consider making full-time stations part-time, and to way to behave. I especially applaud what has been done rely on part-time firemen in an area with the highest to reward trapped annuitants who desperately need the 567 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 568 money now. I urge Ministers to get on with that job as powerless, toothless, fundless talking shops. In Teesside, quickly as possible so that we can pay retired people that is even more the case, as the back-up service to any who are living in relative poverty as a result of the potential Tees valley LEP will be reliant on the Tees Labour Government’s actions. Valley Unlimited staff and logistical support. However, The Government have accepted that the proper that too has had £7 million of its £9 million budget compensation due to all the policyholders is some slashed. £4.26 billion. The £1.5 billion goes some way towards The regional growth fund will be expected to cover that. Many of those policyholders are still working; crucial areas such as roads and housing renewal, leaving they will be working for 10, 20 or possibly 25 years little in terms of a funding pot for business to apply for. more. They need support and help, too. I ask that, as In any case, any would-be small business would have to the economic times get better, improvements come, we make a submission for a bid of at least £l million, a sum create more jobs and the economy recovers, our Treasury most small businesses do not require, cutting out crucial colleagues consider putting more money into those small business growth. policyholders, so that they are properly rewarded for I am also concerned at the delay in the green investment the pain that they have gone through under the last bank. The CSR referred, in small print, to the fact that Labour Government. That is only right and just. I trust the green bank will not be set up until 2013-14, missing that we will see that happen in the not-too-distant the crucial 12 to 18-month window that we are currently future. in to take advantage of wind farm production and maintenance off our coastal ports, such as the port of 5.10 pm the Tyne, the Wear and Teesport. I am also concerned Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East that changes to the carbon reduction commitment scheme, Cleveland) (Lab): I echo the views of my colleagues which amounts to a £l billion tax, will delay green who have already spoken. I concur with them about the investment and hurt small downstream industry which impact that the CSR will have on the poorest people, as aids steel production in the UK. evidenced by the recent BBC-Experian poll placing my Only yesterday, steel producer Lakshmi Mittal called area and the surrounding area in Teesside and East for more stimulus measures from all Governments to Cleveland at the bottom of that list—evidence that my speed growth in the steel industry. I would impress upon proud people who struggle so hard are in the least the Government the need to not disturb the Thai Sahaviriya resilient position to deal with the Government’s harsh cuts. Steel Industries ongoing bid. The probable new owners Let us take the Government’s threatened public sector of Tees Cast Products may well begin to doubt the sackings, such as those of 180 firefighters in Cleveland coalition’s commitment to the ambitious investment fire authority, which not only affects the local economy plans, on which I have been seeking a definitive answer in terms of spending and welfare, undermining the since May. I and other Members were promised that average man in the street’s confidence in the economy, immediately following the CSR by the Secretary of but exposes the local population, massive processing State for Business, Innovation and Skills when he visited sites, and the manufacturing, steel and petrochemical the north-east and made his magical mystery tour of industries of Teesside to hugely increased fire risk and the Beam mill at Redcar—a site totally separate from in turn only deters further future inward investment in the TCP site. that area. The result of such a policy will be increased In conclusion, I draw the House’s attention to another unmanaged industrial risk, which will only increase the economic critic of the Chancellor. According to Chris insurance costs of manufacturing industry in my area. Giles in the Financial Times, in all Departments other Inward investment for manufacturing is of real concern, than Health and International Development, a 19% from wherever it may come. Teesside is not fussy; it just real-terms cut is being implemented, compared to the wants the investment. However, on Wednesday 20 October, 12% cuts planned by the previous Labour Government. during Prime Minister’s questions, following a question That was down to the fact that the Chancellor played asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington fast and loose with an inconsistent definition of (Mrs Chapman), the Prime Minister could not come up “unprotected”. What is clear is that the people of the with one inward investment or new company in the north-east, and in particular Teesside and East Cleveland, north-east that had come to the region without public have been left totally unprotected by this Government. I funds leading to and attracting private inward investment. again agree with Chris Giles, as well as other esteemed When the Prime Minister, at the recent CBI conference, and documented economic critics, that the Chancellor’s made assurances of £60 million to the north-east as comparison in his oration was simply “bogus”. “new” money, he was being wholly disingenuous. These moneys were set aside by Labour as a result of the Prime Minister’s fiscal friend Kirby Adams’s attempt to 5.15 pm be a second MacGregor. The Prime Minister’s mate, Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): Like my hon. Kirby Adams, tried to destroy steelmaking on Teesside. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride), I That £60 million was originally set aside by Labour to have sat through this debate all afternoon and have aid a green regeneration on Teesside; it is not new listened with increasing incredulity to what Opposition ConDem cash, as any union official on site whom I Members have been saying. There is an air of unreality worked alongside at Teesside Cast Products will tell you. in some parts of the Chamber. The question is not The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and whether we should cut or carry on spending, as the Skills confirmed in a Select Committee hearing on second option is not on the table. Labour Members Tuesday that LEPs would receive no Government funding have accepted in their more lucid moments that they, and would have to rely on local authorities or businesses too, would have had to cut, but as they now enjoy the for their funds. If that is the case, LEPs are merely luxury of opposition they do not have to say what they 569 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 570

[Kwasi Kwarteng] 5.19 pm Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): Although she would have cut. It is the job of the Government to be is not in her place, I wish to associate myself with the responsible and take the decisions on which our future comments, particularly those on welfare reform, made prosperity will depend. by my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, There has been a lot of special pleading during the Deptford (Joan Ruddock), who is also a south London debate, and that is a part of our job as constituency MP. Her comments apply equally to my constituency as MPs, but we also have a wider responsibility to the they do to hers. country as a whole, and it is one of the wider responsibilities of the Government to try to make sure that we are on I wish to say a little about the banking sector in the track and that at the end of this Parliament Britain is context of this comprehensive spending review, because much more prosperous than it was at the beginning it has not been addressed in great detail during this of it. debate. During his speech to the CBI on Monday, the Business Secretary said that The contents of the comprehensive spending review delivered by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor last “the British economy, two years ago, suffered the economic week can be boiled down to just a few questions. First, equivalent of a heart attack with the near collapse of the banking system. Death was averted by speedy intervention to shore up the how did we get here? We all know how we got here. A banking system to prevent an economic slump.” previous Chancellor—in accordance with the custom of the House, I will not mention him by name—believed Although he has tended to peddle some of the myths we he had abolished boom and bust, and his calculations have heard in the Chamber today, at least there he on increasing spending were therefore based on the acknowledged that the previous Government stepped in false premise that the economy would continue to expand. to prevent the recession caused by the financial sector It did not, however. There was a recession, and because from turning into a depression. For me, the real question he had so many spending commitments, we ended up is what contribution the Government are expecting the with a huge deficit. banking sector to make to clear up the mess it created. No one is denying the scale of the deficit. It is the In his emergency Budget statement, the Chancellor worst deficit of all the G20 countries; every international said: organisation has pointed out that the British deficit is “The failures of the banks imposed a huge cost on the rest of far worse than those of our peers. The coalition Government society, so I believe that it is fair and right that in future banks had to deal with that, and I believe they have done so should make a more appropriate contribution, reflecting the very well and effectively. The process has been a painful many risks that they generate.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 175.] one, as many Members on both sides of the House have said, but it was the responsible course of action, to What was promised in that emergency Budget? First, which the Conservative party was committed in the the Government said that they would set up the Independent run-up to the general election and to which both coalition Commission on Banking. Secondly, they said that they parties are signed up. We have been facing difficult would take action to tackle unacceptable bank bonuses, choices, and as the Chancellor outlined last week, referring to the consultation that they would start on government is about choice. The cuts are necessary. the remuneration disclosure scheme and talking about After all, £1 in every £4 we spent was borrowed, which imposing more restrictions on remuneration arrangements was unsustainable. No one in their right mind would for those working in the City. Of course, the centrepiece lead their private life on that basis. We cannot keep on of the action that the Government said they were going borrowing and spending. These are obvious truths which to take on the banks was the banking levy. we have recognised and addressed. So what did we see in the comprehensive spending The next question is an entirely legitimate one: are review? Credit is due in respect of the Independent these cuts and restraints in spending fair? There is a big Commission on Banking. I, for one, am pleased to have dispute about that between Members on the Opposition seen that set up and its terms of reference are good. and Government Benches, but I want to remind the Beyond that, there are many questions to be asked House of certain facts. The current benefits system about what the Government are doing to ensure that simply is not working. It cannot be right that people are the financial services sector makes its fair contribution. getting more than £20,000 a year on benefits and are We are constantly told that we will be consulted on the therefore completely disincentivised from working. Many remuneration disclosure scheme in due course. I believe hard-working people in my constituency find it absurd that the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, who is no and very frustrating that, as they feel, they are subsidising longer in his place, said that that would take place those who, as a lifestyle choice, have decided not to shortly. However, at the moment it is nowhere to be work. That cannot be right. Hon. Friends have alluded seen. There is a real risk that if we do not see this the to a change in philosophy in this respect, and it is long remuneration disclosure scheme, which would require overdue. In the long run, people will acknowledge that the banks to exercise more transparency in their we did the right thing. It was a tough thing to do, but it remuneration arrangements, things will not be implemented was also a courageous thing to do, and it was the right in time for the forthcoming bonus round, which is about thing for Britain as we look forward to the next few to start in December. years. We have not seen much movement on the measures to The coalition Government have been utterly responsible tackle irresponsible bank bonuses either. We have seen and fearless in their determination to tackle our problems. movement on this in Europe, but not on the domestic That is what responsible government is about, and I am front. As has been said in the Chamber today, the pleased to be supporting a Government who are responsible banking levy is to bring in about £2.5 billion of revenue, and determined enough to deal with our problems and and the Government are fond of saying that that is to set our country on the right track. higher in net terms than the previous Government’s 571 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 572 payroll tax. That is completely disingenuous, because I vision not only for Chiswick, Brentford, Isleworth, Osterley, tabled a parliamentary question during the summer on Hounslow and Hammersmith but for the rest of London the likely income from the banking levy and was told by and for the country beyond. I want to build confidence the Treasury that it would raise £1.15 billion in 2011-12, in people, no matter where they come from or where rather than £2.5 billion. I was told that £2.32 billion was they live. I want to ensure that we build skills for the to be raised in 2013-14, not £2.5 billion. The income future and that we build hope and aspirations, so that would finally reach £2.5 billion in 2013-14 before falling we can get people back into work again. That is what I back again to £2.4 billion in 2014-15. So in 2014-15 the believe that the comprehensive spending review will do. banks would be paying less than families who are losing Those of us who spent many hours, days and years in out on child benefit will be losing in that way. business know that we can get better value for money in What we were also not told in the CSR was that, the public sector. As part of this plan we will look at under the paper issued by the Government, the day each Department to see where we can simplify how we after the banks will have a tax-free allowance—a levy-free do things, where we can remove duplication and where allowance—of £20 billion, so they will not pay the we can add value. Those things are possible. banking levy on the first £20 billion of taxable liabilities. It is also important that we do not forget those This is not a levy; it is a walk in the park for the organisations that play a key role across our many financial services sector. The five biggest UK banks constituencies. Let me bring one to mind: Refuge, which have already announced well over £15 billion of profits deals with domestic violence. When local authorities this year, so I ask the Government to spell out how and others are considering their budgets and prioritising those whom they said they would make pay for the their spending, I want to put in a word for organisations crisis they caused are to be required to make a fair such as Refuge, which need support because they provide contribution, because we do not see it in the Green valuable services to the local community. Book this week. Finally, I want to touch on our investment for the future—that is, investment in infrastructure, in people 5.24 pm and in growth. I commend the Government for their Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): It is announced investments in Crossrail and in many of our good to have this debate on the comprehensive spending roads—including in the Hounslow highways private review following the gross domestic product growth finance initiative, for which we have support—and for figures and the news of the enhancement of Britain’s their many other investment announcements. I agree triple A rating, which was described by the Financial with our Mayor that London plays a vital role as the Times as engine of the UK economy and that investment in the “offering a vote of confidence in the government’s austerity capital is critical to the well-being of the economy programme”. overall. For me, the CSR has summed up this Government’s We are also investing in schools, with the announcement intention to deal with the budget deficit in a way that of capital funding for and the refurbishment of schools. gets this country back on a firm financial footing and Several schools in my community—Chiswick Community, invests in our future. Hounslow Manor and Oaklands—need that support. Earlier, I was appalled when the hon. Member for They also need the support for the additional places Wallasey (Ms Eagle) not only did not recognise that that they will need for the future. there were some women on this side of the House, and In this comprehensive spending review, the Government directed her comments to the gentlemen—as fond as I have had to deal with the economic realities and they am of my hon. Friends, I thought she ought to have have not shied away from their responsibilities. We are recognised the talent that we have on the Front Bench in committed to cutting waste and reforming public sector the shape of my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to services while at the same time investing in infrastructure, the Treasury and elsewhere, too—but, more importantly, people and businesses to make this country successful did not give us any one plan or any cut that we have for the future. come up with that she could agree with. She also did not come up with plan of action that showed exactly what 5.29 pm the Opposition would do to get rid of the awful mess that we are in, which they created. Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): The comprehensive spending review is all about fairness Last Wednesday, the Chancellor took a huge gamble on and getting things back on track, ensuring that we get the future of the UK economy. The CSR statement, value for money and investing in the future. The general coupled with the June Budget, will take a staggering public appreciate that cuts need to be made, and that £80 billion out of our economy over the review period. those cuts need to be right and fair, but that we need to Never before has any Chancellor cut so deeply and so ensure that we support those in need. That is what I quickly. believe we are doing. There is nothing fair about running The people who will pay the price for that squeeze on a huge budget deficit and burdening future generations the state will not be the 18 or so millionaires who sit with the debts that we are not prepared to pay. around the Cabinet table. No, the price for the Chancellor’s I have met several people in my constituency who are gamble will be paid by people on council estates who keen to work but who are prevented from doing so will see rents rise dramatically, civil servants in my because they would be worse off. The time has come to constituency who will lose their jobs and students who make those changes and to ensure that we deliver real will see their debts treble. change for the future. The hon. Member for Hammersmith We all agree that the deficit needs to be reduced to a (Mr Slaughter) was talking about the impact on the sustainable level, but that should not be at the risk of local area in London, but let me tell him about my weakening an already fragile economic position, and it 573 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 574

[Angela Smith] 5.33 pm Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Thirty-one Members must be based on a strategy for growth and jobs—a from all parties and all parts of the House, including strategy absent from the Chancellor’s statement. The the Chair of the Treasury Committee, have contributed facts are that the Chancellor is hoping that export to the debate, which has been interesting and well volumes will rise significantly over the period covered informed. It is clear that there is a real divide between by the review. At the same time, according to the the Government and the Opposition on how to tackle Chancellor’s own figures, the economy will have to find the deficit, the impact of the CSR, and the fairness of an extra 2.5 million private sector jobs in the next five the measures proposed by the Government. years. To put that into perspective, during the last recession Several hon. Members rose— the UK managed to create 1.2 million jobs between 1993 and 1999. To get anywhere near the target that the Mr Hanson: I have five minutes or so to wind up the Government have set themselves will require investment debate. I will not give way at present. and an export boom on a scale that has never been achieved before—a point underlined recently by many The spending review will hit jobs, children and families. political and economic commentators, including the It will gamble with jobs. It will gamble with the growth well respected Will Hutton. of the British economy and, as my hon. Friend the Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) said, that of Although the £200 million to establish the elite research Northern Ireland as well. The spending review will hit centres is certainly welcome and nothing new to us in the most vulnerable in our society the hardest. south Yorkshire, where we already have the advanced manufacturing research centre, this investment is nowhere Kwasi Kwarteng rose— near enough, in the context of the sheer scale of the growth required, to rebalance the economy. Mel Stride rose— It is also important to remember at this point that the Government have already failed a key test on the support Mr Hanson: I shall give way to the hon. Member for that they are prepared to give the private sector. In June Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng). they withdrew a Government commitment to fund the £80 million loan to Sheffield Forgemasters. Although I Kwasi Kwarteng: I am obliged to the right hon. will not go into the stupidity of that decision now, it is Gentleman. He acknowledges that there is a deficit and clear, as the Business Secretary said in the Select Committee his party acknowledges that it would have made cuts, so recently, the nuclear reactor components at the heart of will he please tell the House where those cuts would the proposed investment will now have to be manufactured have fallen? abroad, and the UK will lose millions of pounds of exports to our international competitors. Surely that is not the way to go about rebalancing our economy. Mr Hanson: I know the hon. Gentleman was not a Member at the time, but I wish he had been here for the How will 40% of cuts in funding to the higher education Budget proposals in March, when we set out clearly our sector help to rebalance the economy? All that will do is deficit reduction plan. damage our economic future. Also in further education, the Government are abolishing the education maintenance The hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) quoted allowance, which has been recognised by many as a the Bible at us. May I refer him to “Matthew”, chapter 7, success. The Institute for Fiscal Studies, which is so verse 16, and the notion, “By their deeds shall ye know obviously a thorn in the side of the Deputy Prime them”? The spending review cuts too fast and too deep, Minister, said that since the allowance was introduced, and it rejects the sensible, balanced approach put forward attainment at GCSE and A-level by recipients of EMA by my right hon. Friends the Members for Edinburgh has risen by five to seven percentage points, and by even South West (Mr Darling) and for Kingston upon Hull more for those living in the most deprived neighbourhoods. West and Hessle (Alan Johnson). That evidence is reinforced by college principals, who The Government plan to take out of our economy believe that many young people will not be able to stay and our spending £40 billion more than Labour thought in education and training without EMA, so why have sensible, so I was surprised to hear the hon. Member for the Government withdrawn a scheme which, in the Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) call for more expenditure. great scale of things, costs relatively little and helps to Even the Office for Budget Responsibility thinks that give so many young people the skills desperately needed, the Government’s measures will downgrade next year’s if the Government are genuine about rebalancing the growth forecast from 2.6 to 2.3%. economy? The Budget and the comprehensive spending review It is clear that the Government believe that private will hit jobs, essential services and, crucially, take public sector growth will, over the period, pull our economy investment out of the private sector at a time when the on an upwards trajectory. I hope the Government have Government want the private sector to grow. My hon. got that right, but I fear not. I fear that in a few months Friends the Members for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) they will come back to the Chamber to revise the figures and for Ochil and South Perthshire (Gordon Banks) as the economy goes into a death spiral, and they will and, indeed, the hon. Member for Macclesfield (David tell us that they cannot deliver the £17 billion savings Rutley) recognised the importance of the public sector and the cuts that they announced last week. That will in helping to support future private sector investment. not be achievable because unemployment will rise. The We know, because the Chancellor admitted it last CSR is bad for Britain and bad for our economy. They week, that 490,000 jobs will be lost in the public sector. should think again. The hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) 575 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 576 mentioned the impact on the defence sector, loss of the pregnancy grant, the ending of contributions PricewaterhouseCoopers estimates that another 500,000 to the child trust fund, the scrapping of the savings jobs will be lost in the private sector as a result, and my gateway scheme, and the cutting of child benefit, which, hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian as my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Greenwood) described the impact of those losses. So let North (Malcolm Wicks) so eloquently pointed out, is us not kid ourselves: the economy is still fragile. This an unfair approach to tackling the deficit. My hon. week’s announcement on growth over the last quarter Friend the Member for Hammersmith also said that still demonstrates that point and, put simply, throwing that will raise serious issues. Even today the Chief 1 million people out of work—out of the economy—will Secretary to the Treasury stated very strongly that there cost us more jobs than that and impact on the private was not a problem in the Treasury with enforcing these sector in the long run. policies. Well, let us find out downstream whether there The Government’s measures will hit the private sector is a problem when we see how he ensures that there is hardest. The hon. Member for Watford (Richard fairness between those who earn a top rate of tax, with Harrington) talked about confidence, but confidence two incomes, and those who earn a lower rate of tax, will fall if 1 million people are out of work. It will mean with one income. I will be interested to see how that more people claiming benefits. As my hon. Friend the works in due course. Member for Nottingham South said: fewer people in The poorest 10% of the population will be hit hardest jobs, fewer people helping to grow the economy and by the deficit reduction plan proposed by the Conservatives higher welfare bills. and the Liberals. Members need not take my word for Government Members have been asking for it: there it—it comes from the Treasury’s own figures in the Red is an alternative to the Government’s proposals. We Book. Massive cuts to public spending will threaten clearly said in the Budget presented by my right hon. vital local services, which my hon. Friend the Member Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West in for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) mentioned with March that we would take steps to halve the deficit over reference to the fire service. Stopping capital spending four years. benefits the private sector most, because it is not the public sector that spends money on building things in Mr Raab: The right hon. Gentleman refers to the the economy—the private sector that does that. March Budget, but the former Chancellor, who sat in on much of today’s debate, said in August of the David Rutley rose— election: “Labour lost because we failed to persuade the country we had Mary Macleod: Will the right hon. Gentleman give a plan for the future.” way? Was he right then? What has changed now? Mr Hanson: No, not in view of the little time I have Mr Hanson: The hon. Gentleman was not a Member left. in March, but if he had been, he would have seen our More widely, there are cuts to front-line policing, proposals to make efficiencies in policing, for which I putting at risk Labour’s record falls in crime and, as my was responsible at the time, of about £1 billion. He hon. Friend the Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall) would have seen proposed efficiencies through savings noted, putting extra pressure on health and education on back-office staff, police procurement, public sector services, despite pledges to support them. pensions and pay caps—a range of issues. The Conservative and Liberal Democrat policy, which has been brought Mary Macleod: Will the right hon. Gentleman give before the House today, and which, by the way, we have way? not had sufficient time to debate, has been shown to be misguided. The people who will find it hard to get back Mr Hanson: Yes, I will, so that the hon. Lady can into work will be hit hardest. [Interruption.] The right defend these policies, which are unfair, short-sighted hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) and just plain wrong. has not even been in the Chamber most of the afternoon. He will whip Conservative Members to vote against Mary Macleod: What is the right hon. Gentleman’s child tax credits, child trust funds and health in pregnancy plan, and which cuts does he agree with? grant, but he will not sit here and listen to the arguments about those issues. Mr Hanson: I can see a pattern developing. Members There will be cuts in working tax credits for child care who were not here in March of this year did not hear and a freeze on working tax credits, and people on my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South jobseeker’s allowance will be punished. As my right West outline his proposals. hon. Friends the Members for Barking (Margaret Hodge) Despite what the coalition would have us believe, this and for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) and my grossly unfair series of cuts is not inevitable—there is hon. Friends the Members for Hackney North and another way.The deficit was there because as a Government Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) and for Hammersmith we faced a choice. Incidentally, the right hon. Member (Mr Slaughter) said, cuts in housing benefit will exacerbate for Witney (Mr Cameron), as Leader of the Opposition, the problem. Women, children and the poorest in society supported our deficit reduction plan and spending will bear the brunt of these cuts. programmes. After much dithering, he supported us in As my hon. Friends the Member for Easington (Grahame taking measures to ensure that we did not let the United M. Morris) and for Middlesbrough South and East Kingdom slip into a depression. Members such as the Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) pointed out, the regions in hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) and the the north of England will be hit the hardest, with the hon. Member for Watford do not realise that the official 577 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 578

[Mr Hanson] clear plan for getting it up and running. There was no strategy for recovery and no ideas for reform, and not a Opposition supported us in ensuring that we took action single penny of savings had been identified. If Opposition to help to support the banks to keep people in their jobs Members would like to intervene to tell me which of and to keep people’s mortgages alive. our spending cuts they would like to support, I would That is unlike what happened in the recessions of the be very happy to take the intervention right now. early 1990s, which I remember as a Member of Parliament, The right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) when we saw mortgages go up, houses repossessed, and talked about the March Budget, but it was a Budget and jobs lost in their thousands. We took action to save a plan that the British people rejected at the ballot box. those things on behalf of the British people, and we While the Opposition are in denial, they will have no were proud to do so. The action that we took kept prospect of coming up with a plan to solve the grave people in their jobs, kept people in their homes, and problems that this country faces following 13 years of gave more businesses the support they needed than at their being in government. any time during the 1990s. Through our action, inflation We took over when our country was borrowing £1 for stayed at a historical low and plans were put in place to every £4 it spent. We were running the highest deficit in ensure that we saw a return to growth at the end of this our peacetime history and the highest in the G20. year. We took that action to support the economy. Britain was not living within her means, and the world We need to bring the deficit down—certainly we do. knew it, as my hon. Friends the Members for Spelthorne We know that tough spending choices are needed, and (Kwasi Kwarteng) and for Central Devon (Mel Stride) in our Budget we looked at saving money on IT systems pointed out. In fact, the previous year, the International in the NHS, police overtime and welfare, and made Monetary Fund warned that we needed to accelerate £15 billion of efficiency and back-office savings on a deficit reduction. As my right hon. Friend the Member range of other issues. They were important savings. for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) said, that was critical to [Interruption.] As my hon. Friend the Member for getting our country’s finances back on track. Streatham (Mr Umunna) says, we raised money through a higher and more effective banking levy. In May we announced immediate reductions in in-year spending, avoiding the sovereign debt crisis that was This comprehensive spending review debate is about engulfing the eurozone. In June, we set out our emergency choices. It is about choosing whether the banks bear Budget, returning credibility to the nation’s finances, more of a burden than our children. It is about choosing and this October we have had the spending review, whether we cut public services spending deeply or quickly— bringing years of irresponsible borrowing to an end and and we would not. It is about targeting new tax rises to giving our country the best chance of keeping interest fund £7.5 billion of capital spending in order to support rates low, stimulating business investment and keeping jobs now. The Government are making the wrong choices. mortgage rates low, and so helping families. We are not “all in this together”. They are gambling with jobs, gambling with growth, deepening unfairness, We have had to tackle the deficit—it has been and increasing inequality. To cite a notable former unavoidable. However, we have chosen to spend the Prime Minister, there is an alternative. money that we have on the areas that matter most to Britain, which are the education of our children, the We announced our programme in our Budget in health care of our people and the infrastructure that March, and we were elected—every single one of us—on sustains a prosperous economy. As my right hon. Friend that programme for the future. In the coming weeks and the Chief Secretary said, underpinning all our decisions months, we will promote that alternative vigorously, have been three guiding principles: first, the need to expose this Government’s reckless policies and ensure support growth; secondly, that our choices are fair; and that we stand up for the ordinary, squeezed, middle-class thirdly, that we deliver reforms to our public services, people of this country and the people on lower incomes. making them fit for the 21st century. As the hon. We will reject the cuts where it is appropriate to reject Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) pointed out, those them and support efficiencies where they should be principles were entirely missing in the last Government’s made. [Interruption.] Again, the right hon. Member for comprehensive spending review of 2007. Rayleigh and Wickford was not listening to what was said earlier. He has not been here listening to the debates and the arguments. I urge him and the House to Angela Smith: Can the Economic Secretary give us reject this comprehensive spending review, support the any indication of the evidence that the Government Labour alternative and ensure that we defend the poorest have used to rely on the creation of 2.5 million new jobs in our society. in the private sector over the next five years?

Justine Greening: As the hon. Lady will be aware, we 5.45 pm have set up the Office for Budget Responsibility, which The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine is an independent office. It is the OBR that is predicting Greening): We have had a very good debate on the year-on-year falling unemployment and rising employment. Government’s spending review, and I thank all hon. I hear Opposition Members talking about 480,000 or Members who have contributed. 490,000 public sector job losses, but I am afraid they Last week my right hon. Friend the Chancellor stood have to consider that the same report assesses that in the House and set out a clear plan to pull Britain 1.6 million jobs will be created in the private sector. back from the brink, to deal with our debts and to put They cannot have it both ways. our nation’s finances back on a sustainable path. When we came to power, we inherited an economy that was on Chris Williamson: Will the Economic Secretary give its knees and took over from a Government with no way? 579 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 580

Justine Greening: I will not, because we have had a them offered any alternatives. We hear about the Opposition long debate and I have three minutes to respond to each supporting cuts, but we never find out which ones they hour of it. I really do want to try to cover the points support. that hon. Members who participated raised. I apologise The second principle behind our decisions is to ensure to the hon. Gentleman, but I want to respond to what fairness and make sure that those with the biggest has been said. shoulders bear the largest burden, while protecting the The bottom line is that if a country loses control of most vulnerable in our society.That is why the Government its finances, it loses the ability to choose how to spend have restored the earnings link for the state pension and its money, and its priorities become those of its debtors, ring-fenced NHS funding. We want to give every child not of its people. That is why we outlined a clear and the best possible start in life by increasing the child tax credible plan to deal with the deficit when we came to credit for the lowest-income families and by protecting government and that is why we will stick to it. The our investment in schools. There is nothing fair about Government are firmly focused on achieving sustainable not tackling the deficit and placing the millstone of growth. Tackling the deficit will help to provide the debt that we currently have around the necks of our strong economic bedrock on which the private sector country’s 20-somethings for the future. can build, as my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) pointed out. Malcolm Wicks: Is it fair that when the cuts, including those to child benefit, are analysed, time and time again those who are hit the hardest are mothers and children? Chris Williamson: This morning, I met a representative Does that make sense in terms of family policy? from the UK construction group that represents some of the largest construction companies in the country, Justine Greening: I do not accept that at all. The right which said that it did not recognise the growth figures hon. Gentleman needs to have a chat with the hon. that the Prime Minister quoted yesterday. It said: Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), who was “The 4% increase in construction turnover in” claiming that families on £79,000 a year are too rich to quarter 3 get support from the local council to access housing in London but too poor to have their child benefit withdrawn. “is unbelievable and does not reflect the mood of the major players”. That shows the incoherence of Labour’s policy on the economy, particularly on welfare—a budget that accounts Is it not a fact that the private sector-led recovery on for almost £1 in every £3 that we spend. which the hon. Lady is relying is just a fantasy and will not come to fruition? As my hon. Friends the Members for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod) said in their powerful speeches, work simply Justine Greening: I was about to ask the hon. Gentleman does not pay in our welfare system. People are put on to give way, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Government are benefits with no prospect of ever being better off in spending slightly more on capital infrastructure than work and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne the previous Government, so heaven knows what the (Stephen Lloyd) pointed out, successive generations are industry would have thought of Labour’s plans. In the condemned to a life of state dependency. Opposition next four years, we will invest more than £30 billion in Members might think that that is fair, but I do not. It is transport projects, £14 billion of which will fund one reason why over the coming years and next two maintenance and investment in our railways and £10 billion Parliaments the Government will introduce the universal of which will be spent on road, regional and local credit—to make sure that people on welfare will always transport schemes. We have created the new green be better off by moving into work. investment bank to help finance sustainable infrastructure for the future and we have launched the £1.4 billion Mr Slaughter: The Leader of the House will confirm regional growth fund, which has rightly been welcomed that at business questions today, I quoted the Mayor of by my hon. Friends the Members for Bristol West London on the reduction of housing benefit, which he (Stephen Williams) and for Macclesfield (David Rutley). described as “Kosovo-style social cleansing.” Since then, Even when faced with the economic problems bestowed he has said: by the Labour party, we are still investing tens of “I do not agree with the wild accusations that reform will lead billions of pounds in Britain’s future. That goes alongside to social cleansing.” the reduction in corporation tax that we brought forward Why has he changed his mind in the six hours between in the emergency Budget and the reduction in national now and then? Is it by any chance anything to do with a insurance that we have also brought forward, scrapping call from No. 10 Downing street? the Labour party’s jobs tax. The hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) said that the spending review is not Justine Greening: That was a completely ineffective just about numbers, but I shall give her a number—400,000. intervention. The hon. Gentleman ought to complain That was the number of extra unemployed at the end of to Labour Front Benchers for their being so utterly Labour’s time in power, but Labour still wanted to ineffective at creating extra social housing in the capital introduce the jobs tax. during their many years in power. It was shocking how The hon. Members for Easington (Grahame M. Morris), little affordable housing was created under the previous for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham), for Middlesbrough Government. South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), for Penistone Even when spending is being reined in, we have found and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) and for Nottingham more resources for our schools and for the early-years South (Lilian Greenwood) all spoke of their concerns education of our children. That has meant other about the spending review and the cuts, but none of Departments taking bigger cuts, but we believe that that 581 Comprehensive Spending Review28 OCTOBER 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review 582

[Justine Greening] approach is different to that of the previous Government. By cutting waste and abolishing unnecessary targets, we is the right choice for our country’s future. The right will free the public sector to deliver a more efficient, hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) transparent and better-tailored service to the people quoted Eleanor Rathbone, who said that children are and communities who rely on them most. assets to the community. She was right, which is precisely Let me conclude the debate by saying that the decisions why there will be a real increase in the money for that we have taken have restored credibility to our public schools in the next four years. In fact, my hon. Friend finances and stability to our economy. When the coalition the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Government came to power, we faced the worst economic Gilbert) also recognised the importance of that. That is inheritance in modern history. The previous Government why the schools budget will rise from £35 billion to spent our money like there was no tomorrow, but tomorrow £39 billion, why we are maintaining cash spending on has now arrived. The Labour Government left debts Sure Start, and why we are introducing a new £2.5 billion that undermined the funding of our public services and pupil premium to focus our resources on the children threatened every job in the country. They wanted to from the most deprived backgrounds in our country. introduce a job tax at the very time when employers Our third and final principle in the spending review were crying out for help. was public service reform. We are reducing back-office We have had to make tough choices, but they are the costs to free more resources for the front line. The right right choices. We are determined to ensure that everybody hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) spoke of pays their fair share. I simply reject the comments of the challenges of improving efficiency in government, Opposition Members. As ever in such debates, they but unlike her party when in power, we aim to be spent several hours explaining what they did not like, successful. We have started that process by finding every but simply failed to say what they did like. It is unacceptable last penny of possible savings, and we are beginning to to participate in such a debate without offering a meaningful eliminate the monumental waste that became endemic alternative plan. in the past decade. We are tackling administration, We have ensured that everybody pays their fair share. improving procurement, and scrapping ineffective and We are reforming welfare and cutting waste, and we are expensive IT systems, which became a feature of the investing in growth, schools and health. That is how we previous Government. When we started that process, will drive growth in this country and create jobs for the we looked to make £3 billion of savings, but now we will future. With no help from the Labour party, we have make £6 billion of savings. taken our country back from the brink of bankruptcy Finally, our reform agenda will see a massive devolution and we will build the more dynamic, prosperous and of power from the centre. Apart from schools and sustainable economy that Britain so badly deserves. public health, we will end the ring-fencing of all That is why this spending review is how we will get Government grants to local authorities from April next our country back on track. I believe that generations to year. More than 90 separate core grants to councils will come will recognise that when our— be reduced to fewer than 10. Councils welcome that freedom even if the hon. Member for Leicester West 6pm (Liz Kendall) does not. We will change how services are Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)). delivered through increased payment by results and personal budgets, and by introducing new rights for Tony Cunningham (Workington) (Lab): On a point of communities to run services and own assets. We are order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Why was no decision made therefore giving more powers to the front line and more about whether the debate that we had been having all to local government and communities—the very people afternoon had gone on long enough? who know their area best. We are cutting the ridiculous levels of red tape that Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): The rules of tie the hands of our police forces and so many other the House dictate that once the debate has gone past people who are working hard in the public sector to 6 o’clock it finishes and we move on to the Adjournment deliver the services on which our communities rely. Our debate. 583 28 OCTOBER 2010 European Arrest Warrants and 584 Extradition European Arrest Warrants and Extradition There should be some element of proportionality in the system. I would venture that spending vast sums of Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House money to extradite someone accused of stealing a piglet, do now adjourn.—(Angela Watkinson.) as has happened recently, may somewhat diminish the power of the warrant when it is issued for more serious offences. The Government should seek assurances about 6.1 pm the provision of legal aid and representation for extradited Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con): Thank you, citizens. We must never send people overseas without Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to address this any idea of whether bail will be granted or whether they issue and for allowing my hon. Friend the Member for will spend the next year of their life in prison with no Enfield North (Nick de Bois) to speak too. This issue trial date and no chance to clear their name. As we have has affected several of my constituents, often referred to seen in the case of Gary McKinnon, Britain should not as the Crete five, as well as my hon. Friend’s constituent, be signing treaties that will allow other signatories to Andrew Symeou, who is a notorious example of the refuse to extradite when we are sacrificing that right. It frailties of the legislation. The subjugation of an individual is not in the interests of British citizens, and it leads to to the will of the state—any state—is an important unbalanced treaty agreements. issue and one on which the new Government are right There are many reasons for a review. It is long overdue, to focus attention. so I applaud the Government for acting so quickly on I commend the Government for appreciating that all the matter. However, if I may, I would like to offer a is not right with our extradition treaties at present and word of caution. The European arrest warrant was that a review is a sensible step to address some of the introduced into British law in 2003. The then Prime concerns felt by many people. Without doubt, there are Minister, Tony Blair, dismissed concerns raised by the discrepancies between the justice systems of the many Opposition, saying that countries involved in extradition treaties. For example, “there is one problem with the proposal for a large part of the a number of the offences for which a European arrest Conservative party; it has got the word “Europe” in it.”—[Official warrant can be issued are not crimes in this country. Report, 12 December 2001; Vol. 376, c. 836.] Indeed, many have fought hard so that racism and Although I recognise the politics he was playing, I xenophobia do not become crimes in Britain. There are would not agree with the substance of what he said. also clear differences between nations regarding prisoner This is not an issue primarily about Euroscepticism. It rights and prison conditions, and these were at the is not a rant against all things European. It is to do with forefront of the minds of the Crete five when they faced the British values that we hold and our determination extradition proceedings earlier this year. Not only were to protect those values and our citizens wherever they they concerned by the initial summons they received, are in the world. which was unclear as to its force and required them to appear in a Greek court just two weeks later, but they I urge those conducting the review not to be browbeaten also feared a repeat of the case of Mr Symeou, who into believing that the valid concerns that were raised in spent 10 months in a Greek jail without trial. 2003, and which will undoubtedly be raised again, are in fact nothing but the rantings of anti-Europeans. In Those concerns remain very real for anyone facing fact, we have seen, with every day of this coalition the threat of extradition to a foreign country. Irrespective Government, that co-operation between different tribes of innocence or guilt, the nature of the alleged crime or is a good thing. It gets things done, and can turn a indeed nationality, certain standards must be maintained desperate situation into a more promising outcome. So regarding the treatment of prisoners. That is as much a there are good reasons for having extradition treaties, part of our justice system as the final verdict handed and there were many good reasons when the Extradition down, and we should expect our treaty partners to Act 2003 was first passed. It is now quicker and easier adhere to those same values. to bring people to justice for the crimes they commit. At present, not enough safeguards exist to ensure They cannot just flee across the channel, and they that people are not sent to foreign prisons under foreign cannot drop in and out of countries with scant regard laws without good reason. The experience of many is for the law, and in the globalised world we inhabit, it is a that extradition is a fine thing only to someone who is tool we can use to combat one of the biggest challenges running the criminal justice system. Individuals risk facing us—that of a terrorist threat which knows no their whole life collapsing while they are hauled away borders and no nationalities. without evidence and without hope of a trial any time At the time of the 2003 Act, however, concerns about soon. how these laws would operate were raised from across We must be careful that the long held, much cherished the political spectrum. We ploughed on unbowed. Perhaps value of “innocent until proven guilty” is not swept that was understandable. The events of 9/11 tipped the under the carpet as simply the price we have to pay for balance in favour of the EAW. The catastrophic nature international co-operation. I hope we do not move of those events no doubt shaped much of our security towards the French system, about which some have policy in the following years, and the belief prevailed commented that people are seen as guilty from the that “needs must” and that although the objections had moment the judicial system is interested in them. Judiciaries some merit, they did not outweigh the need for immediate, of any nation should have to provide some sort of decisive action. Now that those events, although still a prima facie evidence before extradition takes place. It constant reminder of the danger we face, are less pressing cannot be right that an unfounded allegation based on and less immediate, perhaps we can have a period of evidence that would never stand up in a British court considered reflection under this review, so that we can can lead to an extradition once a couple of boxes have begin to answer some of the questions that were batted been ticked. away when the law was first introduced. 585 European Arrest Warrants and 28 OCTOBER 2010 European Arrest Warrants and 586 Extradition Extradition [Mr Sam Gyimah] by Lord Scott Baker. In short, there has been a failure to scrutinise the case by British courts for prima facie That is why a review is long overdue. Our allies have evidence; a lack of bail or euro-bail; a failure of mutual made the EAW work for them—for example, Germany recognition; and, we must never forget, delayed justice has the sort of proportionality test I have mentioned—and for the family of the victim of that tragic incident, I hope that the review does the same for Britain. Yes, if which led to the death of Jonathan Hiles—a delayed British nationals break the law, they must face justice, as process that, three years on, leaves us with no one should those from other countries who transgress here. having come to trial yet. As much as anything else, that However, every time we read about one of these cases I is not good for the family of the victim. have mentioned, every time someone is mistreated in a I cannot address all those issues, but let me turn to foreign prison off the back of a loosely issued EAW, the point highlighted earlier, about submitting prima and every time a year of a young person’s life is lost facie evidence prior to extradition. In British law, the because of something that someone somewhere claims Crown Prosecution Service makes the decision to charge to have seen happen, we lose faith in this process as a individuals with criminal offences in complex cases. The proper tool of justice, and we retreat to an unhelpful decisions must be made fairly, independently and objectively. position of instinctive distrust in international co-operation. It is the duty of the CPS prosecutors to ensure that the 6.8 pm right person is charged for the right offence. The key point is that when making a decision, the CPS will Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): I congratulate always decide whether there is enough evidence against my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) the defendant. Therefore, the quality and reliability of on securing this important Adjournment debate. In the that evidence will also be investigated, and cases progress time permitted, I cannot review all the aspects of this only if there is considered to be a realistic prospect of matter, but I must focus on the key points as pertaining conviction. to my constituent, Andrew Symeou. Enfield has a unique and specific interest in the European arrest warrant and However, the EAW is based on one of 32 listed crimes extradition, given that two of the current most high-profile in respect of which there is no need for a dual criminality cases exposing the system’s failings involve Enfield test or any obligation to ensure that prima facie evidence residents—Andrew Symeou and, of course, Gary is provided by the member state requesting extradition. McKinnon. I and my constituency neighbour, my hon. Essentially, it requires us to go through a tick-box Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), exercise. All that is required is that the judicial authority hope and expect that the review of Gary McKinnon’s in the member state requesting extradition should detail case will mean that he is not the last victim of an the criminal offence believed to have been committed—that imbalanced process, but the recipient of a new, just and is, ticking the box—and indicate the length of sentence proportionate approach. Perhaps the Minister can update to be expected. In Andrew’s case, he contested the us on that review. request for extradition between 27 June 2008 and May My central premise today, however, is that for the last 2009, but the court was able to examine only the process, decade the European Union has been driven by procedural and at no stage the facts of the case. safeguards and processes, not defendants’ rights, as How powerless has British justice become when the moves to enhance speed and efficiency do so at the High Court dismisses the appeal by the Symeou family price, in this case—I believe—of a potential miscarriage even though in some instances it agrees that the evidence of justice. Those who support the European arrest submitted shows that the local police investigation was warrant do so because they believe that more criminals flawed and when it could not rule out the possibility get caught. That is a noble goal, and one that I and, I that the police were guilty of the manipulation and am sure, all Members of the House fully support, but fabrication of evidence? How futile is our justice when the performance of the warrant is flawed. it is decided that a young British man’s future is not Sadly, those who criticise the operation of the European under our control, but is instead an argument to be arrest warrant are often cast as apologists for wild had in Greek courts? Leave was granted to appeal to European extremists, or organised crime and terrorism. the House of Lords, but the House of Lords in turn That, of course, is arrant nonsense. For me, it is a rejected it. question of balance. I do not believe that a system that produces potential miscarriages of justice at one level The second point that I would like to consider in the should be tolerated in the interests of speed at another. time available is the issue of bail. When the European The application of the warrant without proper procedural arrest warrant was agreed in 2002, it was with the guarantees has in some cases led to the denial of justice. understanding from all sides that this measure, which One of those cases concerns my constituent Andrew would have the effect of causing EU citizens standing Symeou. Andrew was in prison in Greece for 10 months trial to be held in prison in another member state, awaiting trial on a charge of manslaughter. Until his would be swiftly followed by measures guaranteeing final release on bail, the charge was one of manslaughter, their fair trial rights, as well as guaranteeing that there although as testified by our High Court, there is sufficient would be no miscarriages of justice. That promise was evidence of what I can perhaps describe as the over- betrayed by member states when they failed to agree in enthusiastic interrogation of witnesses. Indeed, there 2004 to a proposal for a framework decision on procedural even appears to have been a case of mistaken identity. rights. All we can hope for now is, at best, a piecemeal In Andrew’s case and others, surely the European arrest approach. warrant has been misused. The European Council is promising only to consider, Let me summarise Andrew’s experiences. In doing so, not to legislate on, a so-called euro-bail, which would I hope in parallel to illustrate how the European arrest have helped my constituent who had been explicitly warrant has failed, and perhaps thereby help the review refused bail because he was a foreigner. Several years 587 European Arrest Warrants and 28 OCTOBER 2010 European Arrest Warrants and 588 Extradition Extradition ago, Lord Lamont predicted with characteristic foresight course, no one sought for trial in the EU should be able the plight of my constituent when he said: to evade justice by crossing a border, which is why the “In some countries, bail is frequently refused to foreigners for warrant is important, but to be really effective it must fear they will abscond. In fact, there are several hundred British command the confidence of those whom it affects, citizens on remand in Europe’s prisons many of whom would striking a fair balance between the rights of those have been released on bail if they were nationals of the country sought and the rights of their alleged victims. For that holding them.” reason, I welcome the opportunity this debate affords Is it any wonder that my constituent and his family feel to explore some of the pertinent issues. the UK Government have repeatedly let them down? My hon. Friends have raised a number of points, and Andrew was forced to languish in jail on remand for I would like to add some of my own. My hon. Friend 10 months until June this year, yet with the existing the Member for East Surrey is aware that there is no EAW,one member state could all too easily have returned ministerial involvement in European arrest warrant him, if he had been able to serve bail over here—under proceedings. A European arrest warrant can be issued the European arrest warrant. only by a recognised judicial authority, and the decision The emotional and financial cost to the family, who about whether to order surrender is a matter for the have remained supportive throughout, has been courts in the country receiving the warrant. Having said extraordinary. They have had to decamp to Greece to that, I appreciate the concerns that my hon. Friend has be with their son when he was first extradited 16 months expressed about the welfare of his constituent and his ago. Their ability to continue to run their business and constituent’s co-accused, who were surrendered on a provide an income has been seriously compromised, but European arrest warrant earlier this year to Crete to despite that, the family members have remained united face serious criminal charges. I am aware of the and passionate in their campaign for justice for their circumstances of the case, in which another young man, son. They want him to have his day in court. I pay Mr Robert Hughes—also a British citizen—was assaulted tribute to their courage and resilience in the face of this and very seriously injured. huge adversity. The House will appreciate that I cannot comment on, To conclude, we should have an agreed framework of and still less seek to intervene in, the judicial processes extradition for member states within the European of another state. But I can say that the accused were Union—I accept that. The process needs to be fast, but surrendered to Crete in early August after their appeal should not be carried out without respect for an individual’s rights under part 1 of the Extradition Act 2003, which right to a fair trial and a fair judicial process. At the gives effect to the European arrest warrant in the United heart of these flaws is the expected notion of mutual Kingdom, were exhausted. Once there, they were granted recognition between the judicial process in member bail on payment of a surety, and as far as the Foreign states. The process of mutual recognition allows for and Commonwealth Office is aware, they have been miscarriages, as we have discussed. I suggest that a permitted to return to the United Kingdom pending the system of mutual understanding would suit the process setting of a trial date. of a European arrest warrant far better. Such a process would allow for reasoned debate before EAWs were My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North acted on rather than allow European law simply to mentioned the case of his constituent, Andrew Symeou. supersede our law. This would allow European warrants Mr Symeou was surrendered to Greece on a European to be declined if the acts were viewed as non-criminal in arrest warrant last year, where he is accused of the the UK or the evidence was insufficient. manslaughter in 2007 of Mr Jonathan Hiles, also a British citizen. I can certainly confirm the advice received It seems perverse that hon. Members on both sides of from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that the House were up in arms over the 42-day detention Mr Symeou is now on bail in Greece and awaiting trial provisions of the last Parliament, yet we are willing to in March next year. The trial was postponed from June have our own citizens held in foreign prisons for far this year because summonses for British witnesses were longer as a result of a flawed piece of legislation. regrettably not able to be served on time. This is self- Should we as a House accept that liberty and justice be evidently distressing for all those involved in this tragic sacrificed for expediency? case, but I trust that the delay will not result in a denial of justice to any of the parties. I can assure the House 6.18 pm that the unit in the Home Office that processes summonses The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the from overseas has flagged its system with the names of Home Department (James Brokenshire): I congratulate these witnesses. That means that when the summonses my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey containing the necessary information are re-sent by the (Mr Gyimah)on securing this debate and on the measured Greek authorities, they will be identified promptly and way in which he delivered his comments this evening. I served on the witnesses. would also like to thank my hon. Friend the Member It would not appropriate for me to comment further for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) for highlighting a on individual cases, but in general terms Members will number of issues about the European arrest warrant be aware that the Extradition Act 2003, and the various and for posing a number of questions about the operation treaties and instruments to which it gives effect, contain of the system. In the time available, I shall try to address a range of safeguards for the person whose extradition as many of the points highlighted by my hon. Friends is sought. These safeguards are in place to strike a as I can. balance between the rights of the requested person and The European arrest warrant is an important mechanism the rights of their alleged victim or victims, as I said in the administration of justice in the European Union, earlier. It is important that suspects are quickly brought where citizens can move across its borders with relative to justice, and that is no less the case when the offence freedom for the purposes of business or leisure. Of has cross-border elements. 589 European Arrest Warrants and 28 OCTOBER 2010 European Arrest Warrants and 590 Extradition Extradition [James Brokenshire] Mr Gyimah: The Minister has mentioned the Home Secretary’s involvement in the Gary McKinnon case. My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North Would it not be helpful to ensuring justice if she became mentioned that a European arrest warrant may be more directly involved in other extradition cases? At issued when a fugitive is merely required for investigation. present, political involvement is completely absent from I can reassure him on that point. The instrument states extradition. categorically: James Brokenshire: As I have said, the extradition “The European arrest warrant is a judicial decision issued by a review will consider a range of issues relating to extradition Member State with a view to the arrest and surrender by another Member State of a requested person, for the purposes of conducting arrangements. Obviously I do not want to prejudge the a criminal prosecution or executing a custodial sentence or detention outcome of the review, but I am sure that the hon. order.” Gentleman’s point will have been heard very clearly. I hope that that provides a measure of clarification. He A number of concerns have been expressed about the also made the general point that, in cross-border cases, European arrest warrant, but, as Members have pointed bail is often denied to defendants who are not residents out this evening, it has been an invaluable tool in the of the country in which they are charged. He might be fight against international crime within the EU. The aware that another EU criminal justice measure, the European arrest warrant system has simplified and European supervision order, was adopted last year. It is speeded up the extradition of persons both to and from not yet in force, but it will provide for a more flexible the United Kingdom, and has made possible some system of bail in cross-border cases. In any event, procedures that were not formerly possible. Before the decisions on bail, whether here in the United Kingdom warrant was introduced, some EU member states had a or abroad, are a matter for the trial court, which will be constitutional bar on the extradition of their own nationals. mindful of the importance of ensuring the attendance The warrant has removed that barrier to extradition, of defendants. and has updated or streamlined the extradition process in a number of other ways. The coalition Government are aware of the public interest in the United Kingdom’s extradition arrangements, An increasing number of European arrest warrants and I have noted with care the comments that my hon. are being dealt with in the United Kingdom. They are Friends have made in this regard. That is why my right issued for a range of different offences. For an offence hon. Friend the Home Secretary announced a judge-led to be extraditable, it must be punishable by the law of review of our extradition arrangements to Parliament the issuing member state with a custodial sentence for a on 8 September. On 14 October, the coalition Government maximum period of at least 12 months, or, when sentence announced that the independent review would be led by has been passed, with a sentence of at least four months. Sir Scott Baker, a former Lord Justice of Appeal. He Offences that fall into one of the categories on the list will be supported by two lawyers with wide experience contained in the European arrest warrant framework and in-depth knowledge of extradition law. The operation decision—all serious offence types—and that are punishable of the European arrest warrant will be looked at as part with a maximum sentence of at least three years in the of the review to ensure that it operates as effectively as issuing state may not be subject to the dual criminality possible and in the interests of justice. In her statement test in the executing state. However, for the purposes of to the House, the Home Secretary announced that the all other offences, the United Kingdom has implemented five issues that would be covered by the review were the an optional further safeguard, and requires that the offence must also be an offence in the United Kingdom. “breadth of Secretary of State discretion in an extradition case; The EU is actively exploring the best means of addressing the operation of the European arrest warrant, including the way in which those of its safeguards which are optional have been the issue of proportionality in the number of warrants transposed into UK law; whether the forum bar to extradition issued, and the United Kingdom is playing a leading should be commenced; whether the US-UK extradition treaty is role in its discussions. unbalanced; whether requesting states should be required to When it comes to justice and home affairs in the EU, provide prima facie evidence.”—[Official Report, 8 September the picture is constantly evolving. The Government 2010; Vol. 515, c. 18WS.] have decided to opt into the EU directive on the right to The issue of prima facie evidence is one of those that information in criminal proceedings. Opting in will help are under review as part of the investigation. It is a long to protect the civil liberties of our citizens abroad time—nearly 20 years—since prima facie evidence has without compromising the integrity of the United Kingdom been required to support an extradition request between justice system. European countries. The European convention on My hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey mentioned extradition, which preceded the European arrest warrant legal aid. Legal assistance is an issue that is included in in the EU, abolished the requirement for prima facie the Stockholm programme and the Commission is evidence. The United Kingdom implemented the convention introducing a proposal on legal assistance for consideration in 1991, when the Extradition Act 1989 came into force. next year. The hon. Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) I am pleased to have had the opportunity to debate asked about the case of Gary McKinnon. The Home the United Kingdom’s extradition arrangements with member Secretary obtained an adjournment of the High Court states of the European Union. Clearly, the issue is being hearing so that she could consider the issues for herself, examined carefully as part of the review that I have along with further representations from Mr McKinnon. highlighted. That is why the review has been set up. It She can legally stop extradition at this stage in the will report next summer, after thorough consultation— proceedings only if she concludes that Mr McKinnon’s human rights would be breached if he were extradited. 6.30 pm She is actively considering those issues with a view to House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order reaching a decision as soon as possible. No. 9(7)). 143WH 28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 144WH

slowly creeping up on us. I say that because many of my Westminster Hall observations today will focus on Google’s activities, such as street-mapping, accessing people’s personal wi-fi Thursday 28 October 2010 addresses, and—as we learned from newspapers and Google’s official blog a few days ago—the harvesting of personal e-mail addresses and passwords. [MR MIKE WEIR in the Chair] I acknowledge that Google is by no means the only guilty party.As The Wall Street Journal recently highlighted BACKBENCH BUSINESS in a special series, there is a problem with what is termed scraping. Scraping is the process whereby internet companies The Internet and Privacy such as Facebook and MySpace pass on user names and personal information to other companies for Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting commercial purposes, without the consent of the individuals be now adjourned.—(Mr Goodwill.) concerned. 2.30 pm The issue of civil liberties and internet privacy first came to a head not long after I was elected to this Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): I begin the debate by House in May 2010. The newspapers revealed that thanking the new Backbench Business Committee for Google had been mapping people’s personal wi-fi data accepting my submission and agreeing to give parliamentary without their permission. I found that an astonishing time to this important subject. As with the election of revelation, and subsequently tabled a number of early-day Members to Select Committees, the Backbench Business motions. I also wrote to the Information Commissioner’s Committee is a small step in redressing the balance of Office to ask its view on the matter, but I received what I power, moving it from the Executive to the legislature. It can only term a lamentable response. The clearly standard is therefore appropriate that one of the early Back-Bench reply stated: debates should be on the subject of civil liberties. “The ICO has visited Google’s premises to assess samples of In recent years, we have become increasingly focused the “payload” data it inadvertently collected. Whilst Google on freedom. With every terrorist atrocity, our civil liberties considered it unlikely that it had collected anything other than have been curtailed, often in a somewhat draconian fragments of content, we wanted to make our own judgment as to manner. I therefore welcome the coalition Government’s the likelihood that significant personal data had been retained determination to redress the balance by reviewing the and, if so, the extent of any intrusion. The information we saw anti-terrorism legislation, scrapping identity cards, does not include meaningful personal details that could be linked to an identifiable person...It is unlikely that Google will have abolishing the national identity register and the contact captured significant amounts of personal data.” point database, and halting the next generation of biometric passports. However, I do not wish to talk about state That raises two issues. First, did Google harvest meaningful surveillance this afternoon. personal data without people’s consent? Secondly, did it capture a significant amount of that personal data? I requested this debate because of my concern—and that of many others, including hon. Members here In the view of the UK Information Commissioner, today—about what I term the privatised surveillance who examined the Google computers, there was nothing society. By that, I mean the surveillance of individual to worry about. I have subsequently spoken to the citizens by advanced internet companies; ordinary people Information Commissioner. His view is that although have no right of redress, and there is no possible sanction. he would have liked to take stronger action against I will set out what I perceive to be the problem, the Google, his office was constrained by the Data Protection reaction thus far of the authorities, and what steps I Act 1998. Perhaps that is true, but why was it not said at believe should be taken to deal with it. the time? There is nothing in the Information Commissioner’s first announcement about insufficient My question is this: are we sleepwalking into a privatised powers or the constraints of the Data Protection Act. surveillance society? How can we stop it? Before I examine That inertia seems all the more disappointing given that the arguments, let me first declare an interest. I am no other groups were working hard to protect the British internet luddite, but rather a passionate advocate for public. its cause. I blog using Google and Twitter, and I am active on Facebook, where I am lucky enough to have Many privacy campaign groups, such as Big Brother 1,400 friends. In fact, I am an enthusiast for Google Watch, have raised awareness of the issue in the media. products. I run my Commons business using Google Privacy International complained to the Metropolitan Mail; I have Google Sync on my BlackBerry, and I use a police in London, who opened an investigation into Google Android phone. I prefer Google Chrome to Google under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Microsoft Explorer. I am a huge believer in the power of Act 2000 and the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006. Why the internet to do good, and to be, potentially, a force was that left to private groups and individuals? The for democratic development, allowing citizen power at Information Commissioner has said that the Data its best. Protection Act prevented further action from being However, there is a great difference between advancement taken, but what was his view of the Regulation of of the internet and the violation of people’s right to Investigatory Powers Act and the Wireless Telegraphy privacy. Private companies seem to have acquired the Act? Why was Google not referred to the police? right to photograph what goes on in people’s gardens. The public whitewash was all the more surprising That is a dangerous shift, because if no one has any given the actions of many other Governments around right to privacy, we will soon be living—dare I say the world. In Spain, there is a formal judicial inquiry it?—with a privatised version of Big Brother run by and the threat of a substantial fine. In South Korea, some of the internet companies. That is the scenario the police have raided Google’s headquarters. Serious 145WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 146WH

[Robert Halfon] without the consent or knowledge of those involved. It was its line when a Google engineer was able illegally to investigations were undertaken in France, Germany, access children’s private e-mail accounts and telephone Italy, and Australia. Israel is considering the problem in records. Google took disciplinary action only after parents its 32nd international conference on data protection complained that the engineer had illegally used Google and privacy commissioners, before Street View has even data to harass four of their children. reached its shores. In Canada, the privacy commissioner I find it hard to believe that a company with the has launched a legal inquiry on the basis that Google creative genius and originality of Google could map the defied Canada’s privacy laws. In Greece and the Czech personal wi-fi details, computer passwords and e-mail Republic, Street View has been banned altogether. In addresses of millions of people across the world and America, Google faces a class action lawsuit over data not know what it was doing. My feeling is that the data harvesting, as well as a large-scale investigation backed were of use to Google for commercial purposes and by 38 states. that that is why it was done. Of course Google denies Let me return to the critical questions. Did Google that, but for me the question is whether the company harvest meaningful personal data without people’s consent? underestimated the reaction of the public and many Did it capture a significant amount of that personal Governments across the world once it was revealed data? A few weeks ago on 14 September, I went to visit what Google had done. the impressive Google headquarters in London and I Even if Google had not harvested oceans of data asked some questions. I stress that the company has without anyone’s consent, and even if the Information always been open to discussion, and courteous when Commissioner’s Office had not been so lamentable in its dealing with my concerns. At that meeting, I was given response, I would still have concerns about Street View. the strong impression that the wi-fi details harvested In many ways, Street View is a brilliant innovation. I am were basic and did not amount to much. In other words, sure that many of us in this Chamber have used it from Google told me that the data were not meaningful, and time to time as a three-dimensional “A to Z”, but that they were not collected in significant amounts. It street-mapping has been done without anyone’s explicit was therefore strange to read what Google’s vice-president permission. Millions of houses and gardens are of engineering and research, Alan Eustace, wrote on the photographed in micro-detail and put on the web. As company’s blog over the weekend. He admitted that his I mentioned, there were episodes in which Google company’s Street View cars captured photographed naked children and uploaded the pictures “entire e-mails and URLs...as well as passwords” to the web. Although the pictures were subsequently on a mass scale. He added: removed, they should not have been there in the first “We want to delete this data as soon as possible”. place. I am sure that hon. Members will have tales to tell We have to take his word for it, but it is hard to do that of e-mails sent by constituents about similar situations. when, contrary to what the Information Commissioner One lady from a village in Cornwall e-mailed me announced this year, and contrary to what Google said about today’s debate. Wanting to remain anonymous, to me in September 2010, meaningful personal data she said: were collected in significant amounts. “The camera must have been elevated to at least 10 feet high to The issue is simple: either meaningful personal data get these shots. I live in a small hamlet, and on Street View it is were collected in significant amounts, or they were not. possible for someone to see right into the rooms of our house. I am so angry at the infringement of our privacy but until now have In July 2010, we were told that they were not; in had no-one to take up the cause.” October 2010, we were told that they were. I sincerely hope that this House, the Government, and the British I have no problem with Google photographing me in public, have not been deliberately misled. I also hope my garden, or my house, and putting those images on that Google’s U-turn is voluntary, rather than a scenario the web, but the point is that I want to give Google in which it admitted the truth only because investigations permission to do so. I want to opt in. Some people will by other Governments gave it no alternative. respond that any citizen can walk up a street, taking pictures of people’s houses. Of course that is true, but As The Daily Telegraph stated on 23 October 2010, there is a difference of scale and of commercial interest. Google admitted that it Google was not sightseeing; it was creating a product to “downloaded personal data from wireless networks when its fleet sell advertising on a mass scale. No private citizen has of vehicles drove down residential roads taking photographs for the millions of pounds or dollars at their disposal to its controversial Street View project. take a detailed picture of every house, street and company Millions of internet users have potentially been affected.” in Britain. That makes this case fundamentally different. Among the information gathered were millions of e-mails, I welcome the moves by the German Government to passwords, and the addresses of websites visited by give people a chance to opt out of Street View before private households. That is unacceptable. the pictures are published. Nearly 250,000 Germans The problem should have been picked up by the have opted out of Street View. That is roughly 3% of Information Commissioner in the first instance. Major households. questions need to be asked. Why did the Information Commissioner assure the public, the Government and Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): the House that all was well? Why did it take an admission What my hon. Friend has described sounds like a of malpractice on the company’s own blog to trigger a systematic pattern of behaviour, but it is worse than new inquiry by the Information Commissioner? that. It is a systematic pattern of behaviour backed up, It is not enough to say that the whole thing was an frankly, by systematic mendacity on the part of Google, innocent mistake, as Google has suggested. That was its which first says that it happened by accident, then says line when Street View uploaded images of naked children that it was a mistake and ends up saying, “Well, we will 147WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 148WH eventually get rid of the data.” Does not that argue to Returning to the remarks by my right hon. Friend, I my hon. Friend—he does not have to answer believe that there needs to be a robust inquiry, with immediately—that we have to take quite firm legal teeth, into the role of the internet and its relationship to action with respect to people’s rights of privacy and individual liberty. their property rights regarding privacy and with respect to the penalties that ought to face a company as huge as Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I congratulate Google, perhaps as a fraction of its turnover? the hon. Gentleman on securing this very important debate and on the eloquent way in which he is presenting Robert Halfon: My right hon. Friend is a great defender his very important case. Does he agree that one of the of civil liberties and we are lucky to have him at the frightening aspects of all of this is that we depend for debate. I agree with him absolutely. Later in my remarks, information about what is happening and what the I shall be able to give a more detailed answer to what he companies are up to on the companies themselves? As has suggested. he pointed out, none of this would come to light unless As Germany’s Interior Minister said in September the information was presented by the companies. Therefore, 2010, we do not know exactly what is going on. That is a key “If companies do not adopt satisfactory new rules, we will point, in terms of people knowing what is happening. create more restrictive privacy laws. However, a voluntary code of sufficient strength and scope could make special regulations Robert Halfon: The right hon. Gentleman makes the unnecessary, at least in part.” extremely important point that in some ways we are In my meeting with Google to discuss Street View, it becoming so dependent on the internet companies that implied that blackening out houses in a street view that allows them to do what they are doing. He is would make things look “unseemly”. My answer to that exactly right. is, so what? If aesthetics are sacrificed in the cause of I am not against private companies—I am a Conservative, liberty, that can only be a good thing. This is an after all. As I mentioned, I use Google a lot to run my important principle. Either our home is our castle or it parliamentary business, but this time it has gone too far. is not. Google’s actions indicate an all-too-frivolous Indeed, there is a danger that one day, no one will have view of the rights of the individual against the advancement any privacy whatever—and this time the threat is not of internet technology. from the state. However, as I stated in my opening remarks, we I accept that, despite what I have described, there are should not be worried just about Google. There are also no easy answers. When it comes to the advance of the reports that BT has been, allegedly, trawling people’s internet, it seems that the rights and responsibilities are Facebook accounts to check for critical comments about still unclear. I accept that it is very difficult for a nation the company. Again, that is totally out of order. There state to deal with what is in effect a transnational must be a limit to what these companies do. We may company. accept that, in the present day, most of these internet companies have good and honourable intentions, but Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): I, too, we are setting a precedent. If we permit this invasion of congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. privacy today, what might it be used for tomorrow? Does he agree that the problems regarding Google and A case in point is scraping, which I mentioned. Thanks the invasiveness of the internet arose before the capturing to The Wall Street Journal, we now learn that the of the information that should not have been caught? internet has given rise to thousands of data brokers and One of the groups of people who have suffered as a middlemen. They gather information from property result is young people and teenagers. A number of records, social networking sites and telephone listings suicide sites have been established and information is and by scraping data from websites where people post passed via social networking mediums such as Facebook information about themselves. The point is not that and other mediums to teenagers, who are particularly those data are publicly available, but that they are being vulnerable and have been particularly badly hit by that. aggregated on a mass scale in a way that threatens Perhaps it is time for us to examine how the internet has individual privacy. operated and invaded people’s lives in an adverse way, If we accept that civil liberties are being violated in and to start talking about some form of regulation that the way that I have described, we must also acknowledge protects individuals. that something must be done about it. In some ways, what is going on is much more dangerous than state Robert Halfon: My hon. Friend makes a good point surveillance, because at least the citizen knows his rights which, although slightly different from what I am focusing and there is some possibility of legal redress. Also, it is on today, is relevant to the role of the internet. I think possible to sack a Government if we are unhappy with she will be pleased to hear what I say later in my them. We are familiar with the idea that there is a social remarks. contract between Government and citizen, but what is The time has come for the Government to set up a the social contract between a citizen and an internet serious commission of inquiry composed of members corporation? who have expertise in civil liberties, the internet and Street View affects everyone. Its impact is not limited commerce. The commission should suggest a new legal to Google’s customers. When it comes to internet framework to redress the balance, giving citizens an companies, the question of citizen rights is much murkier affordable and speedy means of redress. and less defined. That grey area has allowed firms such Perhaps the best means would be an internet bill of as Google to get away with what they have done. The rights, which would give the citizen some notion of his reality is that a lot of privacy encroachment is going on rights. At first, such an internet bill of rights might be a that has yet to be uncovered. semi-voluntary code, as currently proposed in Europe. 149WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 150WH

[Robert Halfon] “know…who you are…what you care about…who your friends are”. The system would be self-regulating, in the same way as Mr Schmidt also said: the British Medical Association can mediate over doctors’ “If you have something that you don’t want anyone to know, behaviour, or the Law Society can judge legal practice. maybe you shouldn’t be doing it in the first place.” If an inquiry finds cases in which a company has Therein lies the problem we have been discussing infringed upon people’s privacy without their permission, today. It is the nub of the whole subject. For Mr Schmidt perhaps there could be some sort of fine. and his company, Google, the burden of taking defensive action because of activity by internet companies lies on Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I thank the the individual. In fact, in my view and that of many hon. Gentleman for giving way and for securing this others, it should be the opposite. interesting debate. I am interested to hear how he develops some of his points. Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): On that very point, The hon. Gentleman keeps talking about companies. would my hon. Friend not accept that it is almost Although he touched briefly on the role of the Government, impossible for the individual to take action. We saw that would he not agree that, while infringement by companies in particular, for example, in 2007, in the what I would is a serious problem, infringement by Governments—which call illegal trials by BT of the system of Phorm to has happened so often, through the former intercept identify internet users’ advertising preferences, so that modernisation programme, the Digital Economy Act they can be targeted. The individual cannot protect him 2010 and the huge amounts of data held by the or herself. Government—is at least as chilling, not least because so much more money and infrastructure back it up? How Robert Halfon: In some ways my hon. Friend is right, would he tackle that issue? but that is why we should have an independent commission and a bill of rights, because they would help. We will Robert Halfon: I was pleased to serve with my hon. never be able to stop everything, but we would have Friend on the Public Bill Committee that considered some right of redress. It should be up to the internet the abolition of identity cards. He is also a huge defender companies to respect the rights of the individual, not of civil liberties, and has been so for many years. He is the other way around. right, and raises an important subject, but one for another debate. Today, I am focusing specifically on the I am calling for an internet bill of rights, a proper activities of internet companies and their role in curtailing inquiry and an Information Commissioner who genuinely our civil liberties. acts to safeguard our liberties. I hope that hon. Members and the Government will be able to support that. Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): I, too, join those congratulating my hon. Friend on orchestrating 2.55 pm the debate today. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): It is a great On regulation, specifically, does my hon. Friend think privilege to be able to take part in this debate and, that there is any merit, or viability, in establishing an again, I congratulate the hon. Member for Harlow industry-wide data security mark of some sort. Is there (Robert Halfon) on securing it. It is welcome and timely. not a clear commercial incentive for companies such as Google to ensure that they get this right, and to satisfy I have had an interest in the internet in many areas, the general public that they are getting it right? What politically as well as personally. Any combination of about a kitemark or some such security apparatus, technology, commerce and civil liberties was always which would allow the public to see the quality or going to interest a Liberal science geek such as me. otherwise of companies such as Google and their security As someone who is still new to Parliament, I have infrastructure? Would my hon. Friend support something been shocked by the aversion that some hon. Members such as that? have to matters technological. There are a number of constraints on using tablets in the Chamber, and various Robert Halfon: My hon. Friend is exactly right. It is other archaisms, which I hope, together with many that sort of thing that I hope the independent commission other new Members, that we will be able to change. of inquiry would consider. However, some of the aversion is due to the frustration of getting parliamentary hardware and software to Although internet companies are global, nothing would work. Privacy is, though, something that Members should stop the Government from fining their operations in the be concerned about, however technologically literate UK. they are. It affects us and our constituents, who use the I stand before the Chamber known as Robert Halfon. internet for all sorts of purposes. It affects businesses However, if I took the advice of the Google chief and how we interact with all those things. executive, Eric Schmidt, I might have changed my name Some first principles have been touched on, such as by now. In August, Mr Schmidt suggested that people the balance between openness and transparency on the might have to change their names in order to wipe their one hand and privacy on the other. One of the issues is personal histories as captured on the internet. His vision about education—people who use things such as Facebook for Google is not just to monitor people, but to predict or Twitter do not understand what they are doing with their behaviour. He has said that their information. People giving information about their “most people don’t want Google to answer their questions. They opinions on BT, available to the outside world and for want Google to tell them what they should be doing next”. BT to have a look at, is a perfectly valid choice. However, In the future, Google will people should know that that is what they are doing, 151WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 152WH and they should be choosing to do so, rather than aspects of the legislation, but I shall not detain the discovering that they have inadvertently done so without House as I assume that everyone is aware of the debate thinking about it. and the many issues raised. However, I draw attention to a case that was reported in July this year, after the Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): What about a health Act was passed. warning on Twitter? On cigarettes we have “Beware of A woman received a letter from her internet service death” or something. On Twitter we could have “Beware provider accusing her of downloading homosexual of giving too much information” in a big sign—it has pornography illegally. That eventually resulted in her got to be big—or something like that. Do those things discovering that her son was gay. That is not the way exist and I just cannot see them because my eyesight is that privacy should be broken; we can expect to see so poor? many more such cases if provisions of the Act are not substantially altered—or, as I would like to see, abolished. Dr Huppert: “Excessive twittering may be bad for BT and TalkTalk attempted to secure a judicial review, your future”—the problem would be fitting something which reveals that even industry heavyweights understand into 140 characters. We can run out of space quickly. the problems caused by some aspects of the 2010 Act. If We need to have some way of educating people on the the offensive parts of the Act are not repealed, it is subject. That involves education in schools and, I am essential that they are significantly modified, by legislation sure, the involvement of websites. or through the Ofcom code, so that ordinary criminal However, I am concerned about the idea of imposing or civil procedures can be used; we already have procedures draconian regulations on internet use. There is a balance. for dealing with theft. We know that it is hard to have regulations, with too I hope that the Government will avoid the general many strict controls on what happens and what is done. trend towards administrative systems laden with Executive I was recently with at least one other hon. Member in involvement. What is the Minister’s current thinking on the Chamber on a trip to China, where we had some the 2010 Act? Will the Freedom Bill be able to stand for interesting discussions about the Chinese efforts to control freedom in this area as well in others? Will he confirm what can and cannot be done on the internet. I am sure that the Government will not adopt a position in which that we do not want to go down similar routes. internet users will be guilty until proven innocent, as the As the hon. Member for Harlow has already made Act effectively demands? clear, we cannot ignore those problems—they are affecting I could speak about summary care records and the people and are doing so now. However, he did not fact that the Government have failed to deliver what I mention a number of things. For example, the Firefox believe was an important promise, and I can give examples extension called Firesheep enables users to log into of the consequences. Instead, I shall speak about the other people’s social networking accounts—I have not reported revival of the intercept modernisation programme, used it myself, I hasten to add. although I am sure that it will not be known by that As I mentioned in my intervention, the Government name. have a critical role. I am even more concerned about the I remind the House that the IMP was an ambitious Government’s ability to do such things. While we can £2 billion project that would have forced ISPs to log argue about which is worse, there is no doubt that the clients’ internet and e-mail activity for at least 12 months. Government should be seen to be leading the way in That, I believe, is a great infringement of privacy. Indeed, respecting citizens’ rights. the coalition agreement explicitly stated that I was delighted to see in the coalition agreement the “we will end the storage of Internet and email records without commitments to “roll back state intrusion” and “restore good reason”. our civil liberties”. I suspect that many, if not all, of There is no doubt that we face threats from cyber-terrorism. those in the Chamber today would agree. [HON.MEMBERS: Malicious breaches of security could cost the Government, “There are no Labour MPs here.”] There is a Labour businesses and individuals dearly in all sorts of ways. MP here—I am sure that he would support the coalition However, that does not give the Government the excuse agreement on at least that point. to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The welcome words in the agreement have to be matched by actions in Government. There are issues on Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): The which we have not done enough to reverse what happened significance of internet records in dealing with cyber- under the previous Government and, in some cases, terrorism and other forms of terrorism requires some there is a risk that we will be worse. attention by the Government. That might be better The last Government had an extraordinary predilection achieved by service providers having to keep material for hugely costly and intrusive IT projects and policies—I for a set period rather than creating a vast Government was delighted to serve with the hon. Member for Harlow warehouse of such material, or merely relying on how on the Identity Documents Bill Committee and I was long it is convenient for the companies to keep it to suit pleased to hear that the only one of the cuts that the their billing records. right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) said in an interview that he agreed with was getting rid Dr Huppert: Indeed. There are a number of ways to of identity documents. I am delighted that the Labour deal with genuine cyber-terror risks. Labour’s proposals party has finally come along to that sensible position. certainly were excessive; they took a draconian and I turn to a couple of things being driven by the over-zealous approach. Government that I believe interfere with privacy. The I raised the matter yesterday in Prime Minister’s first is the Digital Economy Act 2010. I could talk for questions. I asked exactly what was happening about the remainder of this debate about some of the controversial the intercept modernisation programme. He assured me 153WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 154WH

[Dr Huppert] solutions but ignores the need for privacy and liberty, and suggests draconian solutions that cause more problems that the Government were not planning a centralised than they solve. database. I suggest that right hon. and hon. Members I hope that my comments and those of others here read exactly what he said. I am trying to give the Prime today will give Ministers and others food for thought Minister and the Government the benefit of the doubt, and that, together, we can work towards a balanced but I am concerned about the careful choice of words. solution that preserves people’s reasonable privacy Does it have to be a centralised database to cause expectations. problems? Does it have to be a Government database to cause concern? The original problem was that ISPs were storing the 3.6 pm data. Hoping that the Prime Minister was being less Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): It than entirely clear, I asked some follow-up questions to is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge establish what is being proposed, given the wording of (Dr Huppert). He is a self-confessed Liberal scientific the strategic defence and security review. The Government geek, but I do not qualify on any of those fronts. It is a have to be better, and they can start by ruling out for particular pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member good such a costly, over-broad and heavily intrusive for Harlow (Robert Halfon), and I congratulate him on approach. A minimal standard for data retention has to securing this timely and welcome debate. I agree with be the goal. almost every word that he had to say. It is especially I understand that the Home Office is considering that good to be talking of these matters given that they are data retention by ISPs should be based on an EU so topical. directive. If so, extremely stringent safeguards must be We live in an age when instant access to information— put in place. What discussions has the Minister had and, indeed, to people—is the key. Our society has with the Home Office on the matter? Will he assure the become dependent on getting information at the click House that Government intrusion into the privacy of of a button. Technology is advancing at a speed of individual internet users would happen only in the event knots, to use an ancient term, and it has helped to of a serious threat to national security, that it would be advance our economy. However, I am concerned about regulated by the strictest possible safeguards, and that it the potential for legislation quickly to become outdated, would be subject to primary legislation so that Members as Parliament struggles to keep up with the pace of of Parliament could consider what was proposed? change in the media market. It is important to have laws in place to protect companies that are making new and Mr David Davis: I am listening with fascination to the ever-evolving equipment, but we should also ensure hon. Gentleman. He is exactly right in what he says; that the new technologies do not infringe upon our there will clearly be a need for a severe warrant in order constituents’ right to freedom. I do not advocate a to control what is done with privately held data by parliamentary legislative research and development agencies of the state. However, that alone will not department to allow us to keep up with the pace of resolve the problem of having a big centralised database. change, but it is important that the House remains The creation of a database can itself create a security aware of, and reacts to, the growing changes in the hazard. A large quantity of data being held, even by technology market. one ISP, becomes a target for fraudsters, hackers and My hon. Friend expressed concern about the issues terrorists. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the highlighted by the media earlier this week and came up Government should sort out that problem as well as the with some innovative solutions. I share his concern. It is others? a sad day when an individual can suffer such an extreme invasion of privacy by a company that is used to enjoying Dr Huppert: The right hon. Gentleman makes an its customers’ trust. I am sure that Google will respond excellent point. Wherever the data is kept, we would to questions posed by the Information Commissioner, have to be most careful about its security. Some people my hon. Friend and others in a timely manner, so that would be interested to see it. For example, I can imagine we can get to the bottom of the problem. Sadly, this is that a number of people would pay considerable sums not the first time that I have heard of an invasion of to gain access to the web and e-mail records of every privacy being committed through the use of new technology. Member of Parliament; we saw the excitement on expenses, I draw attention to what has occurred in my constituency. and I am sure that it would be similar. Data like that I do not wish to give the impression that the only must be treated as a great security risk, and that risk company of interest today is Google. However, Milton counterbalances much of the risk from cyber-attacks Keynes has had the misfortune to suffer two instances about which we hear so much. when the use of Google Street caused me and my I could talk about many other matters, but a number constituents great alarm. What happened in the village of Government Members wish to speak; the Opposition of Broughton in my constituency ended up making a Benches are somewhat denuded. However, I wish to tell splash in the nationals back in April 2009. A Google the House that I chair a Liberal Democrat policy working Street car arrived on London Road, with the well- group that is writing a new policy on IT and IP matters, documented 360° degree camera on its roof. Villagers and we would welcome submissions from Members and were outraged, and formed a human chain to stop the from people across the country. We shall also be dealing car from moving any further down the road. I was very with the party’s proposals on privacy. Indeed, members proud of them. Expressing concern at the invasion of of the working group could have given a rather more privacy, they requested that the driver stop recording detailed take on many of these matters. We clearly need images of their streets. The driver refused. Following to avoid the kind of lazy thinking that gives blanket intervention with Google, it became apparent that residents 155WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 156WH could halt publication of the images of their homes these issues than almost anywhere else in the world, and only after they had been published online, as has been we need to do something about that. said. My constituents had to place a request with the I particularly commend the hon. Gentleman on drawing company for the images to be removed. attention to the simple fact that there is a big difference I do not wish to seem clichéd, but the similarities that between an ordinary member of the public taking a can be drawn between this invasive style of mapping photograph of somebody’s house and Google taking and an Orwellian thriller are increasing. However, it is pictures for Street View. That is because of not just the not the state that is carrying out this street surveillance, scale at which Google is operating, which my hon. but private companies, and that causes me and many Friend rightly mentioned, but the purpose. Google is other hon. Members great concern. Big Brother should doing this for commercial purposes. I do not know not be watching us, and especially not a private Big whether my hon. Friend is aware of this, but the latest Brother. figures on the value of e-commerce in this country were As a non-lawyer, I confess that I was surprised to revealed just today.In a few years, the value of e-commerce discover that privacy is not a right, but simply a reasonable has gone from nothing to £100 billion, or 7% of the expectation, as most recently established in the case of economy, and we all know that that figure will rise. It is Campbell v. MGN Ltd in 2004. Although I understand therefore not surprising that Google wants to capture as that, Google’s policy of publishing images that my many data as possible and to use them for commercial constituents had requested remain unpublished and purposes. That is why we have to be particularly mindful removing them only after they were published is simply to ensure that we have the right safeguards in place in unacceptable. It is our duty to protect our constituents the growing e-commerce market. from such instances, and I would welcome the Minister’s I was delighted that my hon. Friend drew attention to comments on the suggestion from my hon. Friend the others who are scraping and gathering data of one sort Member for Harlow that we have an internet Bill of or another. As has been said, there is a real issue not Rights. only about whether they should be allowed to gather data and to use them for some of the purposes that they The second problem in my constituency, which involves do, but about security, as we have seen, sadly, on so a women’s refuge in Milton Keynes, was perhaps of many occasions with the large collections that are held. even greater concern. Hon. Members will forgive me if I do not go into great detail about the refuge or its I draw particular attention to ACS:Law. Many people location for obvious reasons. The refuge protects women will be aware that that law firm is making money by and their families who have run away from abusive sending letters to people saying that they have allegedly home environments. Its anonymity is crucial to the been involved in illegal file sharing or similar illegal organisation and to the sense of security of the women activities on the internet. It then demands about £500 from and children who turn to it in their time of need. the recipient. If they fail to provide the money, the firm threatens legal action. As my hon. Friend said, the idea A PO box number is given for correspondence sent to that someone is innocent until proven guilty does not and from the refugee. Only once women have called the seem to apply for that law firm. However, the real emergency number and a pick-up point has been agreed concern is not about the activity that ACS:Law is do they find out where the hostel is. Imagine their great undertaking, although many of us should be concerned concern when, on entering the name of the organisation about it, but about the simple fact that it, too, recently in Google, they see a picture of the building the refuge managed to get hold of a lot of data from ISPs. The uses and its address appears on the search engine. information, which was not encrypted, was sent by Having requested that Google take down the image and e-mail, which it should not have been. Other people the address, the refuge received no response. It is staggering then obtained it and used it for inappropriate activities. that the privacy of an organisation whose purpose it is Even worse, the firm managed to put some of the data to protect others is allowed be invaded in that way. on its own website. There are real issues about the Legislation venturing into this topic is a grey area, security of data. and this debate allows the House to start discussing it Another issue, which has not been touched on, although for probably the first time in some time. I acknowledge I mentioned it in a brief intervention, relates to the that a legislative approach would have consequences for activities of organisations such as Phorm. As many freedom of information, but does the Minister accept hon. Members know, Phorm was apparently established that, following the situations that occurred in my secretly. BT ran trials in about 2007 to gather details constituency, and Google’s reluctance to do anything about how people operated on the internet and what about them, the time has perhaps come for, at the very sites they looked at, so that information and advertising least, a review of the kind suggested by my hon. Friend? could be targeted at them. I accept that Phorm claims that it was developing a system that would completely protect the individual and maintain their anonymity. 3.13 pm The problem, however, is that there was no evidence Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD): Many other Members that members of the public knew that the trial was want to speak, so I will make my remarks as brief as I happening or that the system would give the protection can. I congratulate the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert that the firm claimed it would. I am, once again, saddened Halfon) on securing this really important debate. In that proper investigations have not taken place. passing, let me tell him that it is not necessary for many That brings us to the role of the Information of us to repeat what he said about Google, because I Commissioner. I hope that many Members will have suspect that nearly all of us share a real concern about listened to what he has to say. I do not want to make what has happened. We are particularly concerned that accusations about his role, but the difficultly for him this country seems to be doing significantly less about and his team is that there is a lack of clarity about 157WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 158WH

[Mr Don Foster] 3.22 pm Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): I join in where the boundaries of his powers lie. One reason why congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow we need to set up organisational structures to allow us (Robert Halfon) on securing the debate, and the Backbench to have the investigation that he proposes is that we Business Committee on continuing its programme of need to look, among other things, at his role in dealing ensuring that such topics as this, which need a fuller with the issues that we are discussing. airing, get one. I want to take a slightly different angle by focusing Nadine Dorries: Does the hon. Gentleman accept briefly on some of the commercial aspects of the matter, that there is a lack of clarity and that the only way to and the business models of the leading web property guarantee clarity is to test those boundaries? It is not operators that we are mainly concerned with in the enough for the Information Commissioner to stand debate. It is important to understand the motivation back and say that he does not know where the boundaries behind some of the issues that have emerged. At the are; he needs to push them and test them, and he will outset I want to make it clear that, like my hon. Friend soon find out where they are. the Member for Harlow, I am both a user and an admirer of Google, Facebook and similar companies. I Mr Foster: The hon. Lady—indeed, my hon. Friend—is am also a capitalist, and I do not think that the pursuit absolutely right to raise that issue. We have heard it of profit is a bad thing. However, even in free-market argued that one barrier might be data protection legislation, liberal democracies—in fact especially in such but I have some difficulty understanding why somebody democracies—we take a legitimate interest in companies’ who is there to check out these issues on our behalf is activities and power, and how those things may act for being told that he and his staff cannot do their jobs or against consumers’ true interests. because of such legislation. It is absolutely right that we I do not need to repeat all the ways in which the have to push at the boundaries in the way that my hon. internet makes the world a better place. In terms of Friend suggests. productivity, communication, research, accessibility and I want to end with a point that has been made by the so on, it is fair to say that the world has changed hon. Member for Harlow and my hon. Friend the dramatically since a great Briton, Tim Berners-Lee, Member for Cambridge. I have one criticism of my hon. invented the world wide web. In commerce, the web Friend and I share one area of agreement with him. I makes markets more efficient by making it easier for find it difficult to accept entirely what he says about the buyers to find sellers and vice versa, and search engines, Digital Economy Act 2010. I accept entirely that the including pay-per-click marketing, play a big role in provisions of the Act that dealt with illegal web activity that. Because of the competitive auction nature of pay included a proposal, which I and my party opposed, per click, there is a natural upward pressure on costs, that could block websites even before they had done which over time transfers more value to web intermediaries. anything illegal, because they might possibly do something Ultimately, of course, that has to be paid for by someone, illegal in the future. It was a bit like the film “Minority and that someone—quelle surprise—is the consumer. Report” in which someone could be arrested because Those new costs have been affecting the public sector they might do something in the future. That is nonsense as well. In the answers to parliamentary questions that I and must go, but if my hon. Friend looks closely at the tabled to seven Departments, it turned out that in elements of that Act on illegal file sharing, he will find 2009-10 £5.5m of taxpayers’ money was spent on pay- that it is not true that the idea that someone is innocent per-click advertising for the Government. That was an until proved guilty is not there. increase of more than 70% on the previous year. Given The staged approach in the legislation—we must have that much of that went on things such as swine flu some sort of law to protect intellectual property—is awareness, one might question whom exactly the going the right way. I disagree with my hon. Friend Government were competing against for those search about that, but I entirely agree with him about the terms, and indeed why search engines needed financial intercept modernisation programme. I am delighted inducement at all to make such information available that he raised it yesterday in the House with the Prime readily and easily to the general public. Minister. Many of us are very concerned, for the reasons Although we speak generically of search engines, that he eloquently gave, to think that the programme anyone who has worked in online marketing will confirm may still be going forward under the coalition Government. that in reality there is only one show in town: that show, There are those of us who care about privacy and the of course, is Google. If you push them, people know freedoms of people in this country: the very people who that Google is a commercial enterprise, but in my have stood up against the growth in the number of experience in business and anecdotally people do not CCTV cameras. It is ludicrous that we have 1% of the tend to think of themselves as customers of Google. entire world’s population and 20% of its CCTV cameras. They choose to use Google much as they choose to Is any other evidence needed of the way Big Brother is walk down the public street. It is just there; it is what beginning to operate? We have rolled back some of that people do. I suggest that, deliberately or otherwise, effect; we rolled back ID cards and some of the other Google reinforces that image of itself with, for example, planned databases of the Labour Government. We must its very plain home page, and particularly the term be on the ball in checking what the Government do “sponsored links” that appears above its adverts. It about the intercept modernisation programme. I makes them sound like some sort of charitable exercise, congratulate the hon. Member for Harlow on an important contributing to the inevitable costs of running a website. debate and desperately hope the Government will listen. Of course they are not sponsored links, but highly I shall be listening particularly to my hon. Friend, the targeted advertisements, which are a very big generator excellent Minister. of profits. 159WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 160WH

I am sure that most hon. Members are aware that the me a reading list based on things I have bought from it formula used to determine placement on a search engine’s before. However, there are also important issues to do page is CPC x CTR. That means the cost-per-click bid with protecting consumer sovereignty. multiplied by the click-through rate. Search engine executives First, there is a question of the use of explicitly will explain that that is the best formula to optimise the revealed information. People who reveal information user experience and make sure that the content that about themselves on, for example, a social networking appears is the most salient. Hon. Members who were site—various hon. Members have mentioned this—may particularly sharp at GCSE maths will also have spotted not realise that such details will be used in order to sell that it is the optimal formula for maximising the profit to them. They may also not know about the cross-ownership per available square inch on the screen. between different web properties, which means that Although Google operates many businesses, it is those what they reveal on one site may be used by another. adverts that generate the $23bn of global revenue for There is also the potential for scraping, which was the company—the vast bulk of its overall sales. Google alluded to by my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow. started life as a technology play, but today—let us be Secondly, there is a considerably bigger question about clear—it is a marketing, sales and advertising company. information that people have not explicitly revealed Why is that relevant to privacy? Because knowing more about themselves. That may be characteristics, such as and more about people achieves two things. First, where they live and whether they live in a big house, or accumulating data and information on more and more behaviours, such as the websites they have visited or the things in one place creates—and protects—a position television channels they have watched. Web operators whereby that place is the default place to go to look for will give all sorts of assurances on such points. They stuff. That is ultimately more attractive to advertisers, have privacy policies and customer charters and say who pay the bill. Secondly, and even more importantly, things like, “Don’t be evil.” Then along comes the BT it makes better targeting of the adverts possible. That in Phorm case, which has been alluded to, or the Google turn creates even more value for advertisers. Street View snooping case, and they serve to remind us of the potential that exists. There is nothing wrong with good targeting. Anyone Indeed, in the case of media that are as dominant and who has worked in marketing will say that trying to as ubiquitous as some of the web properties that hon. understand the customers better is central to the exercise, Members have talked about today, I do not believe that and people have always done it. Direct marketing, list relying on individual companies’ privacy policies is marketing, or just plain old junk mail have been around sufficient or appropriate. Although we do not want an awful long time; and more recently, of course, loyalty unnecessary regulation or to stifle what is still a very cards have helped companies to fine-tune and hone dynamic sector in which this country has a leading role, their targeting. However, the internet is a different we need to consider two key things. First, we need to medium, and it is meant to put people more in control. institute explicit rules on the usage of personal revealed Given that the issues that we are discussing are relatively information for marketing purposes. For example, it new, and certainly not universally understood, there are might be standard to have an explicit, active and time-limited questions about how consumers want to be targeted for opt-in for the use of personal data for marketing purposes. marketing. Given the fast-moving nature of the sector, such issues In pay-per-click marketing, there is a transition over need to be constantly revisited, as my hon. Friend the time from active search, which is what most people Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) associate with Google, when they think about it, towards suggested. contextual marketing, and ultimately to behavioural Secondly, we need to bring in seriously punitive fines and characteristic marketing. Active search marketing for the use of non-actively revealed personal data, including is what happens when people actively search for x. In behavioural data. That will seriously focus the minds of the search returns, as well as x, they will also get people who are engaged, or potentially engaged, in such adverts for various other things, and commercial activities and ensure that those abuses never have to be enterprises. Contextual marketing is what happens when apologised for again. The sort of independent commission people go to a website and all around it are ads for other and voluntary charter that my hon. Friend the Member things that are related to that website, whose content for Harlow referred to may well be the ideal route. If has automatically been worked out. Behavioural and not, this is a very legitimate area for Government characteristic marketing is not about what someone intervention, and I look forward to hearing what my is looking for or at; it is just about the person. It is hon. Friend the Minister has to say on the matter. targeted marketing based on things about that person that they have themselves explicitly revealed, things that 3.32 pm can reasonably be inferred, or things that can be guessed about them from their behaviour—what they have bought, Mike Weatherley (Hove) (Con): I thank my hon. what other websites they have looked at, and so on. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) for initiating this debate. I should like to draw hon. Members’ All three types have their place and will often be attention to my declaration of interest. At heart, I am a valued by consumers as well as advertisers. The first libertarian. As a general rule, I abhor state interference. sponsored link on a search returns page is often the one I believe in free markets and feel that Government tend the person is looking for, and that saves them looking to hinder rather than enhance enterprise and creativity. further. Someone who is looking at a travel agency may However, I will argue today that some Government well welcome an advertisement for a guidebook to the interference and regulation are essential. I am certainly place they are going to. I do want to be told when against any information being stored about me without tickets become available for a tour by a band I particularly specific consent. That seems obvious and the Government like. I am perfectly happy for Amazon to recommend to should quickly address the matter through regulation. 161WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 162WH

[Mike Weatherley] how important our overseas earnings from music are to our economy, and to find out how many jobs are My contribution to this debate is to do with intellectual involved. I do not need the reply to know that the figure property, piracy, the balancing of civil liberties with is very high indeed. individual freedoms, and the protection of copyright The Digital Economy Act 2010, which has been holders. In September, I attended a week-long forum referred to, has started to recognise the problem, and organised by the UN on worldwide internet governance. the Gowers report made a firm commitment to protecting To some hon. Members, that may not seem like a lively copyright owners. However, favourable reports will not and riveting subject, and, to be honest, parts of it were a save the situation if there is not some control of the little dry. None the less, there was some very interesting internet by a responsible governing body that looks out information to take away. The attendees were from a for the interests of creative individuals. The Digital wide background. They were internet technical specialists, Economy Act has flaws, and the appeals process is one civil servants, pressure groups and so on. Disappointingly, such flaw. However, what the Act does is enshrine the there were few Government Ministers or Members of right of individuals not to have their works stolen. I Parliament from around the world, other than some therefore commend my hon. Friend the Member for from east Africa and six from the UK Parliament. The Harlow for initiating this debate. pirate party from Sweden was also represented. That latter inclusion gives a flavour of what the debates Dr Huppert: I suspect that we need to talk further tended to centre on. about the interpretation of the Digital Economy Act Many groups were quite rightly concerned about 2010. I am glad that my hon. Friend accepts that it has child protection issues. Other than that, however, there flaws. Does he not accept that there is already provision was a general feeling that the internet should be totally in law for people not to have items stolen? There is a free and that any regulation should be resisted, especially huge amount of legislation covering theft, fraud and all Government-type controls. However, it is my belief that sorts of other issues, and my hon. Friend is in danger of that is a recipe for disaster. The internet is all-powerful, saying, “We must do something. This is something. with an increasing flow of digital information, be it Therefore, we must do this.” written, musical, on video or pictorial. It is providing for a world economy that is both fast-reacting and, for Mike Weatherley: I thank my hon. Friend for making some, increasingly obscure. Anomalies are already showing his point. None the less, the view from the UN internet up, as we have heard. At the forum, we learned that governance forum, which was attended by representatives India does not have a data protection Act, so data from around the world, was that the internet cannot be stored there are not under the same rules and regulations controlled, and so everything should go free. We have as they are here. heard today that that is simply unacceptable and that However, the biggest threat to commerce and innovation there is scope for legislation. is where creative works can become “owned” by users of I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow the internet, rather than those who are creating the for initiating the debate, and urge all parliamentarians works. As we know, file sharing has become rife. At the to get behind moves to ensure that our personal freedoms forum, the prevailing view was that music downloads are not eroded by those taking advantage of this rapidly cannot be stopped, so we should let people get on with changing medium. They should support legislation and it. That is simply nonsense. Certainly, business models committees and call for proper regulation across the need to change so that musicians can recover revenues board. They may temper that regulation so that we have in different ways, such as on live tours. However, if all only what is necessary, because we do not want strangulation creative works are suddenly to be public property, our by regulation. It is a difficult line, but one that we must creative industries are at risk. get right—and quickly. Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): It is not simply that the internet, or search engines such as 3.38 pm Google, are allowing free access to such work; as my Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): I am grateful to hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian you, Mr Weir, for giving me the opportunity to speak in Hinds) mentioned, they are a making a profit from such this important debate on the internet and privacy, and I access, and are making money from aggregating other congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow people’s content. (Robert Halfon) on securing it. I want to preface my Mike Weatherley: Indeed, and to add to my hon. comments by saying that I am not particularly a civil Friend’s point, the money that is being made is not libertarian, and I believe that the first role of the state finding its way to the owners of the creative works. Let and therefore our Government is to protect our population. me give a quick example from Spain, where there is a To do so effectively requires sacrifices in the civil liberties free-for-all internet culture. Various leading movie studios that we would all ideally like to have all the time. For the are actively considering banning DVD sales in that population in modern Britain to be protected, we must country. Sales of DVDs fell six times faster in Spain accept that some of our liberties have to be curtailed than in the rest of Europe. There were 2.4 billion slightly, or pooled for the greater good. In our liberal unauthorised downloads of music and movies, which democracy, if a person has nothing to hide, they have represents 50 downloads per Spaniard, which is just nothing to fear. huge. Unfortunately, the UK is going in the same direction. What I am about to say about Google is not in any There must be reward for inventors and artists to way a criticism of the industry or individuals within one enable those sectors to flourish. We cannot allow the company. It is an important industry and a major UK music industry to be decimated. I have submitted employer in the UK. I am actually a great admirer of some parliamentary written questions to discover just Google and have been using its online services, particularly 163WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 164WH its search engine service, for 12 years or so. The company Robert Halfon: I should like to touch on the point provides a first class service, and who here has not about securing networks. To use an analogy, does my Googled themselves? hon. Friend agree that, if someone leaves their window I want to cover the issue of Google’s aforementioned open and a burglar comes into their house, it is not the Street View project, which went live in March. The home owner but the burglar who is at fault? If it is being project was undoubtedly a brave and innovative commercial suggested that we should have to block our wi-fi and decision. It was a logistical task that is probably on a have special security—whatever that may be—that is, in par with carrying out a population census. It has also essence, putting the responsibility on the individual, been a hugely expensive task for the company. Like my rather than on the “burglar” in the first place. hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), I am a capitalist and therefore I admire Google’s willingness to take a risk and provide a hugely innovative Chris Kelly: Things are not ideal—we live in an new online service. However, as my hon. Friend the imperfect world—but the fact is that people need to be Member for Harlow stated, there are a number of aware that it is possible to lock their wi-fi routers, and legitimate concerns about the way that the project was they should be encouraged to choose that option. To developed and about the regulator’s response to the continue with that very point, the data capture by legitimate concerns of many private citizens about the Google could have been avoided if everyone in the project. country locked their wireless routers, thereby encrypting their data. But not everyone is aware that it is possible The main concern is about data capture. As Google’s to lock their routers and many businesses, such as the cars drove around the UK and many other countries, pubs and coffee shops that I mentioned earlier, offer the wi-fi receptors on board captured information being unlocked wi-fi as a service to their customers. We do not transmitted online over the networks around them. encrypt our telephone calls or our post, but we still have What was captured, how much was captured and from a legitimate expectation that others are not prying into whom is currently unknown and unclear. Encrypted them, and indeed doing so is a criminal offence. and unencrypted data were captured. Given the number of people affected, it is almost certainly the largest Google’s wi-fi intrusion has been brought to the intrusion into privacy ever to happen in this country. attention of the Information Commissioner’s Office, as The code that enabled the capture of data from unknowing we heard earlier. However, the ICO only sent two non- people by Google’s cars as they were driven through technical staff to Google’s headquarters, which is the neighbourhoods was apparently written in such a form heart of what is perhaps the world’s most technologically that encrypted data were separated out and dumped, advanced company. Those non-technical staff then looked specifically sifting out and storing the vulnerable at only a small sample of data taken from what Google unencrypted data on Google hard drives. If that is true, chose to show them and promptly issued a press release that goes well beyond the “mistake” explanation that that effectively cleared the company of any wrongdoing, was given to us by Google. Therefore, the question is in the middle of a formal police investigation into whether Google intentionally breached the privacy of Google’s actions. many people’s communications. I question whether the regulator acted appropriately in this instance. The ICO now effectively refuses to Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): Does my hon. Friend investigate Google, while its counterparts in countries agree that one of the great things about this debate is such as New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Germany, that it highlights the need for everyone to secure their France, the Czech Republic and Italy all pursue the wireless networks? I happen to be a software engineer, company on the issue of privacy, and the authorities in and I am struck by the fact that using an unencrypted South Korea physically raided Google’s offices in the wireless network is equivalent to shouting our personal country. In addition, 38 US states have united to probe details on a bus. Does he agree that we should all secure the company’s behaviour and a thumping class action our networks? has also been issued in America. In Britain alone, the relevant commissioner has not Chris Kelly: Absolutely. I am very grateful to my hon. taken the severity of the company’s wrongdoing seriously Friend for that intervention, and I will talk about enough. The ICO has really let the British people down locking routers very shortly. His point is very valid. in that regard. We deserve better from those who are given the responsibility of protecting our privacy. After Dr Huppert: One thing that has been very good has all, the Metropolitan police are currently investigating been the expanse of wi-fi that has become available, Google over this issue. If the allegations against Google which encourages people to use open networks. How merit an investigation by the police, who have to consider will the hon. Gentleman fit that development into his the criminal standard of fault, how is it plausible to say proposals? that those allegations do not merit an investigation by the ICO? I also question how sensible it is for the regulator to issue a press release when a Metropolitan Chris Kelly: Again, I will touch on that issue very police investigation is still under way. shortly. We all go to coffee shops and the like that have unsecure networks, and of course there is an element of To be fair, Google is hardly the only offender in choice in doing so. However, people in their private privacy terms. Other hon. Members have mentioned homes need to be aware that it is possible to lock their sites such as Facebook, which I personally use avidly to routers, and people need more education about that communicate with more than 1,000 of my constituents. option. That is probably a job in the first place for the More generally, all the social networking media have providers of the broadband services. privacy issues, but of all the providers and organisations 165WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 166WH

[Chris Kelly] transmitted? I ask that question, because surely that is what we mind; the infringement of information about working online, Google is the only one that I know of ourselves being collected, whoever is collecting it. So, that has roamed the streets, taking data from the airwaves. let us look at the property rights, but can we change That puts them in a special category. things around and focus on the individual and not on Apart from the seizing of data by Google cars for the person or the body that collects information about Street View, like most companies in the online space, the individual? Google can generally defend its products when challenged about privacy or intrusiveness by pointing to the implied Ian Lucas: That is helpful. We need to consider the or explicit consent of users to surrender or generate position concerning regulation on the issue. I will come data that will be retained by the company. However, to that later in my remarks. that does not apply to Street View images, which are of It might be helpful to refer back to the present homes whose owners have not consented to having such position as far as I understand it. It is a complex area, images shared and of members of the public who have so I might get some things wrong. The Data Protection not consented to having their bodies displayed. Act 1998 established principles for the retention of In conclusion, this is perhaps the largest invasion of personal data, and the Information Commissioner has privacy ever to happen in the private sector in the UK. had a role in supervising those principles generally. The Moreover, it appears that it was only halted after the Information Commissioner has been referred to several company involved got caught. So I am pleased that we times. I certainly agree that he needs to push the boundaries have been able to debate these issues fully in Westminster of his powers in protecting the individual’s rights, and I Hall today, and once again I congratulate my hon. do not think that that has happened sufficiently in Friend on securing this important debate. the past. In respect of private marketing, the Privacy and 3.46 pm Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 focused on the sending of unsolicited marketing Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): It has been a real privilege messages by e-mail, and consultation on the further to be here this afternoon to listen to the debate, which development of regulations in that area is taking place. has certainly been educational for me. I commend the The history of regulation is a consistent race between hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) for taking technological development and legislation. One example the opportunity to initiate this debate and I also commend is the Data Retention (EC Directive) Regulations 2009, the Backbench Business Committee for choosing this which included internet activity in the communications debate for Westminster Hall. We are at the beginning of data to be retained for a year by communications providers. a very important process and the hon. Gentleman can All those regulations should be viewed against the take great credit for initiating the debate today. backcloth of the Human Rights Act 1998 and its attempt I particularly want to praise the hon. Gentleman to balance privacy and freedom of speech. Recent for focusing on the invasion of privacy by private developments in the common law on privacy add to the organisations. Although there have been many discussions mix, making the legal position even more complex. about personal liberty during the past decade in the It has been said in this debate that in some respects, context of terrorism legislation, as the hon. Member for the United Kingdom has been slower to act on such Cambridge (Dr Huppert) observed, the focus in those issues. I believe that part of the reason is that the discussions was very much on the position of the state. English legal system does not have the same common While that debate has been happening we have paid too law right to privacy that many other countries do. For little attention to the increase in the collection of information example, France and Germany have laws specifically to by private organisations. It is very important that we are protect individuals from invasions of privacy. I think discussing this issue today. We need to be at the beginning that most people are surprised by the limitations on of a process that deals very seriously with what is a enforcement of privacy rights within the UK. The tools difficult and complex issue. I think that that complexity that exist in common law are very limited. is the main reason why it is only now that the general We have a difficult balancing act when trying to take public is waking up to what is already happening in the matters forward. I was the Minister for Business and internet sector. Regulatory Reform before the general election and, The contributions from all Members who have spoken although it may come as a surprise to some Members have been very valuable. I want to refer to those here, I always adopt the principle that one should contributions, as they deserve further discussion, and I regulate as a last resort, only in pursuit of a particular hope that we will discuss them as we take the debate policy end and where other options are not available. further forward. The hon. Member for Cambridge perhaps My first reaction to proposals to reform the legislative concentrated more on the state aspect than any other or regulatory framework is to ask whether we can use speaker so far. We had many debates before the last some form of self-regulation. I think that we all accept general election on the issues related to the state and that it is a difficult problem that we need to confront. I think that today we should concentrate on the issues Can we do so through self-regulation within the industry? relating to internet privacy and private organisations. Self-regulation would have some advantages. The problem We need to focus on that aspect. is not, of course, confined to the United Kingdom.

Steve Baker: We are talking about who owns the body Robert Halfon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his that collects the data, but for me that is rather the wrong thoughtful opening remarks. On the voluntary side of way round. Surely the vital question is this—whose things, that is exactly what I argued. I suggested that we property is information about a person when it is should have a code, in the same way that the British 167WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 168WH

Medical Association has a code for doctors, lawyers breaks the Advertising Standards Authority code may have a code and so on. That should be the first course of be forced to withdraw an advert that it might have spent action, rather than the immediate implementation of hundreds of thousands of pounds making. That is why state action. self-regulation and enforcement of the code are effective in the advertising industry. In the case of the Press Ian Lucas: We should certainly consider that approach. Complaints Commission, by contrast, a slap on the However, I was going to conclude that I do not think wrist or an article in a newspaper is a small price to pay. that it will be sufficient; I think that some other Members have also taken that view. Self-regulation in media Ian Lucas: That may be the case. We can discuss it as organisations has not had a happy time recently in the the conversation continues beyond this debate. The United Kingdom. The Press Complaints Commission hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker), who is no comes immediately to mind; it has failed badly in the longer in his place—he seems to have disappeared—pointed News of the World inquiry and case. I am suspicious of out a moment ago that information belongs to the over-mighty international media organisations. What individuals who give it in the first place. That is a happened in that context—there was a regulator and a strong point. voluntary regulatory system—could certainly recur in the case of an organisation such as Google, for example, Part of the problem with the issue is that when people about which we have heard a lot in this debate. Google use their computers—this certainly applies to me; I am is a powerful, rich and monopolistic organisation. What not a geek of the type described by the hon. Member happens in a self-regulatory system where the powerful, for Cambridge—it does not always occur to them that over-mighty subject ignores the regulator? they are passing on to a third party which books they like or what articles they are interested in. I think that Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): Does most people are in that position. They concentrate on the hon. Gentleman think that the problems that he is what they are using the internet for, and it is incidental describing are endemic in all large organisations that to them that that information is being secured by a third handle large amounts of personal data, whether they party. I think that they would be shocked to learn that it are search engines, mobile phone companies or banks? was being traded for marketing purposes. The difficulty It takes only a certain number of rogue employees to is that that process is already happening, because people release for personal gain private information to which are using the internet and have been for such a long they are privy. The steps that a company can take to time. protect itself from that are serious, but also complex. Ian Lucas: Indeed. One problem with a Law Society Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): Is what my hon. Friend or BMA model, with respect to the hon. Member for has just described not simply a corollary? Someone goes Harlow, is that although that would be an appropriate along with their credit card to buy a product and the way to proceed for some of the organisations involved information is known to Experian, which sells that in collecting such information—they are responsible information. Is it not just a case of people transferring professional organisations and would act responsibly— their behaviours online? We are talking about the same unfortunately, it would not be appropriate for all. Other stuff. We should perhaps not be too afraid of the fact organisations might take a much more laissez-faire we are behaving the same way on the internet as we approach—if I dare use that phrase in the presence of would otherwise behave with our credit cards. so many Conservatives—and would not deal with the issue responsibly. I am concerned that a self-regulatory Ian Lucas: I am delighted that my hon. Friend is here; system might not be as effective as we would like. he is absolutely right. I feel slightly uneasy about such marketing—perhaps I am old-fashioned in that regard. Damian Hinds: Does the hon. Gentleman not agree What my hon. Friend mentioned is another reason to that there are many different versions of and variations go wider in dealing with the matter. Rather than simply on self-regulation? For example, the Advertising Standards focusing on the internet, we need to consider how Authority model is completely different from that of information about individuals is collected and used by the BMA. Surely it is possible to design a model to have third-party organisations. The primary purpose of, for the right amount of independence as well as teeth, so example, a credit card is to buy something, not to give that it gets the respect and compliance that we want. information to a third party. I think that someone said earlier that we need to educate the general public much Ian Lucas: That may be. We are at the beginning of a more about the use of information, what is involved in debate, and I am setting out my personal views at this the use of the internet and what information is being juncture. When I conclude, I will agree that we need to given to third parties. That is extremely important. examine the matter in more detail, but those are my concerns about a self-regulatory framework. With fines, It is crucial that we give intense consideration to for example, it is difficult to create an effective system where we are. We need to consult widely with the that imposes large financial penalties on companies that industry, the internet service providers, the internet do not wish to pay them. If the fines involve hundreds companies and the general public about how we deal of thousands or even millions of pounds, only the force with this difficult problem. People need to know much of law will be sufficient to ensure that the necessary more about the scale of the information they are retaining action is taken. and why it is being retained. I was slightly surprised by the hon. Member for Harlow talking about the extent Damian Collins: I thank the hon. Gentleman for of the information that Google has and the fact it has giving way a second time. He is right about fines, but I not given it to third parties. Why is it retaining that think that it is possible. I speak from experience, having information, particularly when it seems to be very valuable? worked in the advertising industry. An advertiser that The exposition on marketing from the hon. Member for 169WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 170WH

[Ian Lucas] I should say that I am firmly on the civil libertarian wing of the Conservative and Liberal Democrat party. I East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) was very useful in believe that one of Government’s watchwords should that regard. The hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster) be “Protect individuals’ freedoms.”I campaigned strongly said that the value of the internet is £100 billion in the against identity cards, and I believe that the state should UK, so we are talking about massive stakes. not intrude in people’s lives, and should protect the What has come out of the debate is that we need to freedoms of individuals when others seek to do so. have a very wide discussion and recognise that private I also remain personally concerned about the very organisations must be scrutinised in exactly the same serious breaches of people’s privacy on the internet. way and to the same extent as governmental organisations. Many such breaches are unintentional and very few are We have got ourselves into a very serious situation. We brokered by internet-based organisations and companies. have heard about different approaches from hon. Members They are mostly down to the bad behaviour of individuals today and, although shades of different views have been who would, no doubt, behave badly whether the internet expressed this afternoon, there is recognition across the existed or not. A story in The Sun today refers to a lady, House that we need to get to grips with the issue. We are Carolyn Owlett, who had her Facebook identity stolen not talking about a partisan matter in the same way that and the serious consequences that had for her. The some civil liberty issues have been partisan in the past story is effectively about an unpleasant individual—not decade. Ms Owlett, I hasten to add, but the woman who stole We have made a very good start on dealing with the her identity—who used the internet as a tool with which matter today, but we need to make further progress. The to make someone else’s life a misery. However, that type of commission that the hon. Member for Harlow story does not necessarily reflect badly on Facebook. I mentioned would be a good start, but we must ensure will come back to the possible remedies for such a that it consults as widely as possible. An important role situation. of that commission should be to publicise to individuals It is important to put the debate in context. We are not just in the UK, but across the world the extent of right to be concerned about the effect of the internet on the information concerning them that is being obtained privacy, but we should also remember that one of the by these very large—in many cases, multinational— reasons it is having such an impact is that so many of us companies. voluntarily use it. There was a vigorous debate about Collectively, we can deal with the issue. It may be that Facebook’s privacy settings, and that was perfectly we can do so through some form of self-regulation. legitimate. However, we should remember that the reason That has the advantage of being applicable across the Facebook is a big company that knows a lot about world, if we can get the biggest companies to buy into many of its users is that almost half the population of such a system. If we cannot do that, it will be a very this country are members of Facebook, as are more serious matter. The privacy and liberties of individuals than 500 million people worldwide. are extremely important and, if required, we need to Picking up on the useful intervention of the hon. put in place a system of legislation to ensure that their Member for Falkirk (Eric Joyce) and the illuminating rights are protected. marketing seminar given by my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), we should remember 4.4 pm that, when it comes to data harvesting, personal data have always been collected by commercial companies to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, enable them to sell products. I do not have a Tesco Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a clubcard, but those who do are in effect given that card pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, so that Tesco can monitor their spending habits and sell Mr Weir. I was going to begin by saying that today’s them more products. debate was no time for clichés but that I felt the hand of history on my shoulder, because I was under the impression Robert Halfon: I thank my hon. Friend for his opening that this was the first Backbench Business Committee remarks. Picking up on the credit card issue, when debate. In fact, it is the first such debate in Westminster people get credit cards, they receive a clear letter inviting Hall—there have, of course, been three previous Backbench them to tick boxes to say whether they want their data Business Committee debates in the Chamber. to be passed on to other people. The point of my debate However, I will stick with the cliché that the hand of has been to say that, first, the scale of what is happening history is on my shoulder as I congratulate my hon. on the internet is much greater and, secondly, the individual Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on is given no option to tick such a box. initiating this important debate, because I think it is one of the few times that Parliament has debated properly Mr Vaizey: My hon. Friend has raised two very this important aspect of the internet—that is, how it important points that encapsulate the two principles affects people’s privacy. I suspect that the issue was behind the debate, which is unsurprising, given that he raised when the Digital Economy Bill was debated at secured it. First, the internet is an enormous step change length in the other place—it was debated only briefly in in the collection of personal data. What are the implications the House of Commons. There have been few, if any, of that? Secondly, given that enormous step change, debates on this important issue, which touches almost what rights—I use the word advisedly—should consumers everyone’s life, or at least those who go online. have to protect their personal data when they interact Let me begin by setting out a few principles and with organisations on the internet? general thoughts and approaches, before I talk specifically Another general point about internet regulation is about the Government’s approach to privacy on the that a consistent approach to it is rarely adopted. It internet. On the spectrum of opinion within the coalition, is always interesting to see those who want the internet 171WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 172WH to be regulated and those who do not. The hon. Member companies. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), who made a useful speech suggested that perhaps the time has come for an internet attacking the Digital Economy Act 2010, does not want Bill of Rights, and I hear what he says. The Information the internet to be regulated when it comes to combating Commissioner has published a code of practice on the illegal file sharing, but he does want it regulated when it collection of personal information online, and I have a comes to protecting personal data. He kindly let me copy here. It is 36 pages long and densely printed—I do know that he would have to leave the debate at 4 o’clock not think the commissioner has worked in public to attend an event that he is hosting. He is very relations—so I am not sure that it is being read in knowledgeable on the subject, and I hope that he will be the Dog and Duck, but at least the detail exists. The prepared to share with me—an erstwhile colleague—the commissioner would do well to meet my hon. Friend to findings of the Liberal Democrat policy group on that discuss how the code of practice could be promoted issue, which will be an extremely useful contribution to and whether it meets some of the concerns that his the debate. proposed internet Bill of Rights would seek to address. The code of practice sets down detailed guidance for Mr Foster: I hope that my hon. Friend the Member public and private sector organisations operating online. for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) will share that information It covers topics such as online marketing, cloud computing, not only with the Minister, but with me; that is proving the protection of young people online and, of course, a little difficult at the moment. On a more serious note, privacy settings. The document is not set in aspic, and I say to the Minister that one problem we all have in the we continue to debate with a range of stakeholders how debate is recognising that a balance has to be struck; we we can improve privacy online and other concerns. want to protect people’s privacy on the one hand, and Only yesterday, the Department for Business, Innovation their livelihoods on the other. That is the difficulty, and and Skills held a meeting with more than 100 stakeholders it is probably one with which my hon. Friend the from across the sectors, including consumer interest Member for Cambridge is still struggling. groups and Consumer Focus, to discuss that issue. The ICO, as well as publishing the guidance, expects Mr Vaizey: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says; organisations to recognise that online processing brings when a senior Liberal Democrat comments that a junior with it new risks to individuals and that the mitigation Liberal Democrat is struggling with an issue, the junior of those risks requires careful consideration of privacy Liberal Democrat should certainly take note of his impacts before products and services are launched. colleague’s experience in the matter. The hon. Member I want to take that further and to see businesses for Bath (Mr Foster) made an incredibly useful contribution signing up openly to the ICO’s code of practice to to the debate, as he always does, and mentioned the demonstrate to their users that their services adhere to report published today by the Boston Consulting Group, the highest standards. I cannot remember who asked, in which might have been commissioned by Google. The an intervention, whether some sort of kitemark might report estimated that in the UK alone, the internet be useful for internet sites. If an internet company signs economy is worth £100 billion. He was right to point up to the code of practice and adheres to it, I think that out that a balance has to be struck between how we that information should be clearly displayed on their regulate the internet and protect personal privacy online home page for the reassurance of consumers. Indeed, a on the one hand, and the fact that it is now an incredibly link to that code of practice might be provided—not important economic force on the other. One of the necessarily 36 pages of dense text, but an easy-to-read reasons for its economic importance is that it has had summary that aids the consumer in understanding privacy the freedom to develop and businesses have had the implications. freedom to establish themselves online. Ian Lucas: One of the difficulties with kitemarks on We should make no mistake that the internet is the internet is that one often has to go to a particular regulated, a point that I make time and again. There site to obtain certain information, and if one leaves a sometimes seems to be a lazy assumption that what site that does not have a kitemark, one does not get any happens on the internet is beyond the law. That is information. Although the kitemark is a good idea in absolutely not the case; illegal activity is still illegal, principle, it would have to be exhaustively followed whether or not it takes place online. Indeed, we have a in order to succeed. sophisticated and comprehensive regulatory framework that is intended to protect the individual, both offline Mr Vaizey: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, and online. Matters of online privacy are regulated but I want to see self-regulation and voluntary action through the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Privacy by organisations on the internet. That is a theme that I and Electronic Communication (EC Directive) Regulations want to develop in my speech—I have only one hour 2003, not to mention the Freedom of Information Act and 10 minutes remaining, so I will try to speed up a bit. 2000 and the Environmental Information Regulations We have a code of practice that many companies say 2004. Much of that is enforced through the Information they adhere to, so that information should be made Commissioner’s Office, which is responsible for upholding available to consumers. Critical momentum could be information rights, promoting openness by public bodies built up if more well-known and legitimate websites and enforcing data protection rights for individuals. signed up to the code, made that plain on their home Where a breach of those laws amounts to a criminal pages and allowed consumers to see what that code offence, appropriate enforcement action can be taken, states. either by the police or the Information Commissioner. Damian Hinds: Does the Minister agree that the We all recognise, however, that there are practical Information Commissioner’s 36-page document is differences between the online world and the physical challenged, in terms of length and density, only by the world, which can cause difficulties for individuals and typical set of terms and conditions found on most 173WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 174WH

[Damian Hinds] next step he intends to take in respect of the data, and Google’s breach of data protection. I do not want to websites? One baby step, perhaps as an interim stage pre-empt what the Information Commissioner will decide towards the developments that we all want to see, might to do, but normally he would work with the organisation be to encourage all websites to produce a much simpler that has committed the breach and put in place mechanisms version of their terms and conditions—perhaps only to ensure that it does not happen again. What is clear is half a page, explaining in clear English the sorts of uses that the Information Commissioner does not have the to which their data will be put. power to levy a fine because, as I said earlier, that power did not come in until earlier this year. Mr Vaizey: I could not agree more with my hon. It is interesting to note that the Federal Trade Friend. I used to be a lawyer; he used to be a marketer. Commission, which has also been investigating Google’s Marketers are far more useful to society than lawyers. breach, issued a letter yesterday pointing out that it, The trouble is that the terms and conditions are written too, will not pursue Google on the matter on the basis by lawyers who want to cross every t and dot every i to that, in a series of public round-table events that the protect their own back in every eventuality. What the FTC hosted during the summer of 2010, consumer wants are easy-to-understand guidelines. That “Google has recently announced improvements to its internal is something that I want to look at with the major processes to address some of the concerns raised”, internet service providers and websites. I shall expand on that point later in my remarks, probably at about including 10 minutes past 5. “appointing a director of privacy for engineering and product management; adding core privacy training for key employees; and The Information Commissioner’s enforcement powers incorporating a formal privacy review process into the design under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Privacy phases of new initiatives. The company also publicly stated its and Electronic Communication (EC Directive) Regulations intention to delete the…data as soon as possible”, 2003 include the issuing of information notices to request and gave assurances that none of the data would be information so that he can establish whether legislation used is being complied with by an organisation. He can issue enforcement notices if he is satisfied that a data controller— “in any Google product or service, now or in the future.” that is, a website—has contravened or is contravening The other lesson that should be learned from what the legislation, for example by failing to process data happened with Street View is that we are in uncharted fairly and lawfully. In addition, the Information territory. As the small smart cars with large cameras Commissioner can issue a civil monetary penalty of up appeared in our streets, little action was taken by anyone. to £500,000 for serious breaches of the Act, although We took it in our stride—well, my hon. Friend the that power only came into force in April 2010. That is Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) an important point, given that I am about to speak reminded us that his constituents took action by blockading about Google Street View and the controversy that one of the cars. surrounds it. My recommendation is that when an organisation My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow made it undertakes an exercise of that kind in the future, the clear that part of his reason for calling this debate was ICO should put in place ground rules and discuss with to discuss Google Street View and the harvesting of it what measures will be taken, so that the organisation data. Although my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley does not inadvertently breach data protection rules. I South (Chris Kelly) is not a civil libertarian, he pointed certainly think that if an organisation such as Google out that that was possibly the greatest breach of privacy decides in the future to undertake a harvesting procedure in the history of this country, given the huge amount of of that kind, that is what the Information Commissioner data that were collected, although I am not sure that it should do. ranked with the two CDs that went missing from the Hon. Members also raised concerns about companies Inland Revenue. that search the web looking for adverse comments made I am able to update the House on the position. The by customers or staff members on blogs or social ICO learned from Google in May that, in addition to networking sites. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow the mapping exercise that it was supposed to be undertaking, said that that was out of order. With the greatest its Street View cars had unintentionally collected payload respect, I would say to him that that is possibly an data from unsecured wi-fi installations as they passed. example of where we seem to believe that doing something It is the Information Commissioner’s job to consider on the internet is wrong when doing something like it whether in such circumstances there has been a breach offline would be acceptable. of the law. He has been considering the issue and, For example, people post comments online. When importantly, has been discussing it with information they do that, they put them into a public space, if they commissioners in many other countries, including Canada, decide not to put in place any privacy settings. They which my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South have to comply with the law in the United Kingdom as mentioned. it stands—the comments cannot be defamatory. This is Given that Google reported the breach, the best a matter of judgment for the individual company in practice at that point would have been to delete all the terms of its reputation and relationships with its employees data. However, as the Metropolitan police were considering and customers, but there is nothing technically wrong in whether the breach warranted an investigation, the data searching websites to see what comments have been have been kept for evidential purposes. I understand made about an organisation. Indeed, as my hon. Friend that the police have decided that it would not be appropriate the Member for Dudley South said, almost poetically, to launch a criminal investigation, so I will meet the which one of us has not entered their own name in a Information Commissioner next week to discuss what Google search? 175WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 176WH

Robert Halfon: What my hon. Friend is missing is On scraping and cookies, as I am sure hon. Members that it is not just basic things that are being scraped. are aware, a cookie is a piece of text stored by a user’s People’s passwords, user names and e-mail addresses web browser. There are many uses for cookies, including are being passed on to companies without permission, authentication, storing site preferences and shopping but when people go on to such sites, they are not made cart contents and as the identifier for a server-based aware that that will be done. session. Cookies are also used to speed up the user’s web browser as they help to remember the settings and Mr Vaizey: That is a separate point. The point I am options used the last time a website or page was visited. making is that if companies decide to search the web to They have been a hot topic for some time. At the see what people are saying about them online, that is a moment, information obtained through cookies can be perfectly legitimate exercise, although there may be a used to categorise users’ internet interests to serve adverts different point in respect of their reputation. What my that match broad interest categories, though the user hon. Friend says about the use of people’s data without should be able to refuse the import of cookies on to their knowledge is important, and I will come on to it, their machines. Clearly, that has commercial benefits, but although I now have an hour left to speak, I have and, indeed, benefits to the individual—we should not been passed a note by my official which says that I need be shy about saying that, and my hon. Friend the to speak for only 20 minutes. That gives a flavour of Member for East Hampshire was clear about the benefits how well this speech is being received, at least in official of targeted marketing to individuals. However, organisations terms. have to ensure that users are aware that they are collecting such information and know why. Robert Halfon: This is totally different from searching The revised e-privacy directive will give users greater online in case anyone said anything. Companies are control by requiring organisations to get their agreement going into people’s private accounts. It is exactly the before the information is collected. same as someone going into another person’s house without permission to check whether they are doing Damian Collins: A campaign called Cookies for Kids something. They are going into people’s private accounts, raised that issue in the United States. Should there be which is different from just a general search. greater restrictions on the use of cookies for information given by minors? Mr Vaizey: If my hon. Friend gives me some evidence, I will look at it and have no hesitation in passing it on to Mr Vaizey: In terms of the UK Council for Child the Information Commissioner, because that behaviour Internet Safety, I think that the issue needs to be addressed. is clearly a breach of data protection. As a matter of principle, we all accept that children deserve greater protection than adults do, whether offline Mr Foster: Given that the Minister is talking about or when accessing content online. We will continue to the importance of freedom, openness and so on, could look at that. he make available to all Members a copy of the note he Let us make no bones about it, as the hon. Member just received so we can have a word with his official and for Bath made clear, the key issue is not necessarily the point out that the Minister does not need to speak for harvesting of data on shopping habits, but the harvesting 20 minutes? of data without consent or knowledge. There are some who say for example that Phorm, the company with Mr Vaizey: I think that that would be a breach of my which BT carried out an experiment, was providing a official’s privacy. perfectly legitimate commercial service in allowing organisations to monetise their presence on the web by I shall turn briefly to Facebook and the consumer’s targeting adverts at certain consumers; if a consumer is right to privacy. As I have already talked about the particularly interested in a type of car, that advert could personal information online code of practice, hon. Members appear on screen while they are reading a web page. The will be aware that there was great controversy earlier in website—for example, The Guardian or The Observer— the year about Facebook, because its privacy settings could charge more for that advertisement and, therefore, were seen as unclear. Its default settings put one in the monetise its online content. That is a legitimate argument, public space as opposed to the private space, so, suddenly, but huge concern was generated because there was no one had to opt out of rather than into that sphere. I am transparency. It was done without consumers’ knowledge delighted to say that Facebook has been working closely and it was unknown what would happen to the data with colleagues at the Department for Education and is once they were collected or whether they would be now a member of the UK Council for Child Internet transferred to third parties. At the heart of the debate is, Safety, as is Google and BlackBerry. As such, it follows above all, transparency over what data organisations the good practice guidance—produced to guide companies harvest and the opportunity for the consumer to choose that provide internet services popular with children and to opt in. young people—about what additional safeguards it can put in place to protect children online and provide a Damian Hinds: Does the Minister agree that such an positive online experience. The guidance includes advice opt-in must be an active opt-in? The ability not to have on companies’ obligations to ensure the privacy of their cookies exists on just about everybody’s computer, but users’ information and on options and settings they can how many people understand it? It is a different proposition provide users to protect privacy further, and it recommends to have to say, “Yes, I want to be marketed at; I want making information on safety and privacy easily accessible people to know my preferences.” to users, so they understand the privacy options available. The UKCCIS continues to work with companies providing Mr Vaizey: That is an important part of the debate. I internet services used by children, including Facebook, shall talk later about the regulatory framework on to improve safeguards, including safeguarding their privacy. e-privacy on which we are consulting, and it will be 177WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 178WH

[Mr Vaizey] raised today and, with the Information Commissioner and industry, we will help with that in so far as is interesting to see the public’s response. There is certainly practicable. a strong argument that the consumer should not only I have spoken for almost 40 minutes, so it is time to be able to opt in, but know about their right to do so. draw my comments to a close. As a result of this debate We are implementing changes to the e-privacy directive and the thinking that went into preparing my comments, that strengthen privacy regulations in the online world, I intend to write to the major ISPs and websites, such as as part of our implementation of the European framework Google and Facebook, asking for a meeting. I want to on electronic communications. We are consulting on discuss with them not just the general issue of people those proposals, which could lead to changes to the being aware of what data they may inadvertently be privacy and electronic communications regulations and making available online, but the opportunity for redress. strengthen the Information Commissioner’s enforcement powers. I was struck by the comment from my hon. Friend The directive has three key elements. First, effective, the Member for Milton Keynes North about the women’s proportionate and dissuasive penalties will be introduced refuge centre whose address was put online, and it was for any infringement of the directive’s provisions. Secondly, then unable to persuade the organisation that was carrying as part of the implementation of the revised e-privacy that information to remove it. That organisation had directive, we are also consulting on notification procedures not deliberately put the information online; it was simply for personal data breaches. We propose to ensure that the vehicle on which the information was available. the ICO issues guidance on any change to that notification There may be all sorts of reasons why it was difficult to mechanism and that the guidance will be the subject of take that information down. It may be that having taken a future consultation by the Information Commissioner. it down, the address simply popped up again elsewhere, Thirdly, other changes to the e-privacy directive address but the fact that no meeting or dialogue could take problems with cookies, including any attempt to store place worries me greatly.I suspect that most hon. Members information or gain access to stored information in a in the Chamber have had conversations with constituents user’s equipment—using cookies—by requiring the who have seen information about them online and have informed consent of the user. simply not known where to turn. The provision covers legitimate practices that enable Nominet, the charity that is responsible for internet the use of many popular websites as well as illegitimate domain names, runs an extremely effective mediation practices, such as spyware and viruses, which are also service, so that people who are disputing the ownership addressed in other legislation. The Government’s of an internet domain name may be involved in a consultation on the implementation of the changes low-cost process to discuss how to resolve that dispute. closes in December, and we will publish our response in It is certainly worth the Government brokering a spring 2011. The new measures will come into force on conversation with the internet industry about setting up 26 May 2011. a mediation service for consumers who have legitimate Implementation of the electronic communications concerns that their privacy has been breached or that framework is not the only change that we are considering. online information about them is inaccurate or constitutes Following the Lisbon treaty, as well as repeated calls to a gross invasion of their privacy to discuss whether update the EU’s data protection directive, we expect the there is any way to remove access to that information. I European Commission to publish a draft comprehensive am sure that many internet companies will say that that instrument for data protection in mid-2011. The new is almost impossible, but when one hears stories such as instrument may cover all activities within the scope of that told by my hon. Friend the Member for Milton European Union law. To inform the UK’s position for Keynes North, one wants at least to attempt to give those forthcoming negotiations, the Ministry of Justice consumers some opportunity to have a dialogue with carried out a call for evidence for three months this internet companies, as they would be able to do if a summer to gain views on how the current legislative newspaper had inadvertently published that information. framework is working. Taken as a whole, those changes I hope that hon. Members have found my comments will usefully strengthen the regulatory framework governing helpful and that I have been able to put into context privacy on the internet and will tackle some of the what is happening with Google’s breach of data on concerns expressed today. Street View. I have set out my thoughts about personal As hon. Members have indicated throughout, there is remarks on the internet, establishing the regulatory a fundamental debate about the nature and scope of regime for cookies and setting out the process that the regulation. Business and the individual have a role to Government are undertaking to strengthen privacy play in ensuring that both users and businesses are regulations on the internet alongside our European aware of their rights and responsibilities online. There partners. is huge scope for self-regulation. The Internet Advertising Bureau has shown how industry can learn from consumer reaction and respond to consumers’concerns by developing 4.43 pm good practice principles. It has developed a website— www.youronlinechoices.co.uk—dedicated to informing Robert Halfon: I thank my hon. Friends and Opposition consumers about behavioural advertising and offering a Members for attending this debate. Their comments simple opt-out mechanism, which it proposed in March have shown a wide depth of knowledge and real concern 2009, and this country’s advertising industry was the about the subject. In particular, I thank the hon. Member first in Europe to come up with a self-regulatory practice. for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), the Opposition spokesman, Discussions continue to take place between industry for his response, which was far from party political and bodies at European level. Clearly, greater consumer very thoughtful. I thank the Minister for his reply, and I awareness will help to address many of the concerns welcome some of his comments and particularly his 179WH The Internet and Privacy28 OCTOBER 2010 The Internet and Privacy 180WH decision to have a conversation with the Information to try to stop the problem, but it should not have Commissioner about future matters if anything like happened in the first place. The whole point of my Street View happens again. argument is that people should have been given a choice There is consensus that we are living in a privatised in whether their properties were put on Street View. We surveillance society and that no one quite knows what is have not addressed that concern today, although I welcome happening, what internet companies are doing and some of what the Minister said will happen in the what our rights are. I differ from the Minister in his European Community and its various directives. view of the Information Commissioner’s Office’s 36-page We need an independent commission because, whether compact. Its response thus far is more like Sir Humphrey we have a compact or not, things are clearly not working. than a shark with teeth, which is what it should be. Our Millions of people, not just in our country but throughout data were taken away by internet companies; the ICO the world, feel deep unease and anxiety at the advance thought that nothing need be done about it; and only of internet companies and about our individual rights. when it emerged a few days ago that our e-mails had That commission should be composed of experts, and it been taken was it decided to open a new inquiry. The should analyse and examine the problem and come up 36-page compact reminds me of the old 100-page with some solutions. We have a compact, but if that constitution of the Soviet Union, which told everyone commission summarised those concerns into a Bill of how free, wonderful and democratic the Soviet Union Rights and could work out some sanctions on internet was. In reality, if there is a 36-page compact, it is companies, that would be a small step forward. certainly not working. Question put and agreed to. To return to the point that the Minister made about my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North 4.47 pm (Mark Lancaster), it is great that he will hold a meeting Sitting adjourned.

13WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS

Over the years there has been some uncertainty over Written Ministerial the interpretation of the Haldane principle. I intend to clarify this is a statement which will be released alongside Statements the science and research budget allocations towards the end of this year. In order that this statement has the consent of the research community, I intend to consult Thursday 28 October 2010 with senior figures in the UK science and research community to develop a robust statement of the Haldane principle. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS DEFENCE Reforming Debtor Petition Bankruptcy and Early Discharge Staff Reductions

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I (Peter Luff): I am announcing today that the Ministry am setting out today this Government’s response to the of Defence is beginning formal consultation with the consultation on Reforming Debtor Petition Bankruptcy various representative trade unions of the Defence Support and Early Discharge, which closed in February 2010. Group (DSG) on a proposed programme of staff reductions designed to maintain the organisation’s profitable trading In total 37 businesses, individuals, and representative position and the valuable support it provides to defence. bodies responded to the consultation, with the majority indicating broad support for the proposals. Copies of Despite major cost savings and efficiencies delivered the non-confidential responses to the consultation by DSG since its formation on 1 April 2008, the business are now available on the Insolvency Service website is faced with declining order books. It must therefore (www.insolvency.gov.uk) together with a summary of begin a major structural reform to realign its capacity those responses. and capability with defence customers’ reducing demand. Based on current workload plans, this will result in a It is clear from the responses that interested parties reduction in staff levels by up to 600 by April 2013, see benefits in removing the court from the process in around 17.5% of the DSG workforce. However, it is not circumstances where it is unnecessary for a court to take envisaged that these reductions will result in site closures. a decision. The Insolvency Service will be exploring with Ministry of Justice and HM Courts Services how Implementation of the staff reductions must start as best to realise those benefits to produce a bankruptcy soon as possible to remove overcapacity and ensure the system that is suitably accessible and affordable, as well trading fund remains profitable and viable. The MOD as providing an efficient service for all those who need does not expect the recent strategic defence and security to use it. I expect that this work will result in enhanced review (SDSR) announcement to negate the need for and detailed proposals being published in due course. staff reductions or the imperative for commencing consultation now. Should SDSR lead to a requirement There was also support for repeal of early discharge. for further staff reductions at DSG then this will be This requires primary legislation, and will therefore be subject to a separate consultation process in due course. brought forward when parliamentary time allows. Both MOD and DSG will do all that they can to Copies of the analysis of the consultation are being minimise the effect to employees by delivering these placed in the Libraries. staff reductions through voluntary means but naturally we cannot rule out potential release by compulsory The Haldane Principle means. In parallel, the trade unions, MOD and DSG will The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David work with other Government Departments and agencies Willetts): The Haldane principle is an important cornerstone to explore future job opportunities for DSG employees for the protection of the scientific independence and affected by these manpower reductions. Working closely excellence. We all benefit from its application in the UK. with external training providers and agencies such as The principle that decisions on individual research Jobcentre Plus and other advisory organisations, DSG proposals are best taken by researchers through peer will explore alternative training and job opportunities review is strongly supported by the coalition Government. for any employees wanting to retrain for an alternative Prioritisation of an individual research council’s spending career. within its allocation is not a decision for Ministers. Such In conclusion, I pay tribute to the outstanding service decisions are rightly left to those best placed to evaluate DSG personnel provide and the pivotal role they play in the scientific quality, excellence and likely impact of supporting the UK armed forces with the vital equipment scientific programmes. they need on critical operations both at home and The Government do, however, need to take a view on overseas. the overall level of funding to science and research and they have decided to protect and to ring fence the EDUCATION science and research budget for the next four years. This School Support Staff Negotiating Body decision has been made in the context of the current economic status of the UK and the strategic importance of research funding, while recognising the value of The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): science to our future growth, prosperity and cultural The SSSNB was established by the previous Government heritage. to develop a national pay and conditions framework for 15WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS school support staff working in maintained schools in note of the report prepared by the presidency to follow England. The Government have conducted a review of up the Commission communication adopted at the end the future policy direction for determining school support of May; welcome the ongoing discussions to assess staff pay and conditions, including the role of the policy options; invite the Commission to conduct further SSSNB, and have concluded that the SSSNB does not analysis; and indicate that this should also be informed fit well with the Government’s priorities for greater by the roadmap for a low-carbon economy by 2050 deregulation of the pay and conditions arrangements currently under preparation by the Commission. The for the school workforce. I therefore propose to introduce Council decided to revert to these issues as soon as legislation to abolish the SSSNB at the earliest opportunity. possible with a view to the spring 2011 European Council. This decision means that school support staff will Climate Change Ministers agreed the EU’s negotiating continue to have their pay and conditions determined in position to take forward to COP 16 in Cancun at the accordance with existing arrangements whereby decisions end of November, adopting conclusions which set out are taken at a local level by employers. the need to achieve a balanced outcome which paves the In reaching this decision the Government have considered way for a global and comprehensive legally binding very carefully the views of the SSSNB trade union and framework. The main focus of the discussion was the employer member organisations, and the SSSNB EU’s position on agreeing a second commitment period independent chair. I will be writing today to the independent of the Kyoto protocol, which will be a key issue for chair and lead representatives of the SSSNB member these negotiations. The Minister insisted on the need for organisations to notify them of the Government’s decision. the EU to send a clear signal of its willingness to agree a second commitment period provided that other countries enter a parallel legally binding agreement and the environmental integrity of the Kyoto protocol is addressed. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Under any other business, Hungary informed the Council about their ongoing efforts to contain the Environment Council (14 October) environmental damage from the recent red sludge.

The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and JUSTICE Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): I represented the United Kingdom at the Environment Council on Service Personnel Deaths (Overseas) 14 October in Luxembourg, together with the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Gregory Barker). (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): My hon. Friend the Minister The Council agreed conclusions on the EU’s negotiating for the Armed Forces and I wish to make our quarterly position for the Nagoya conference on biodiversity. In statement to the House with details of the inquests of support of the conclusions, I underlined the need for a service personnel who have died overseas. We maintain united EU position to push for an ambitious but at the the highest possible regard for all of our service personnel same time deliverable and realistic agreement. I pointed who are or have been involved in the military operations to the need to find a satisfactory agreement on a protocol in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our deepest sympathies, of on access and benefit sharing (ABS) and innovative course, lie with the families of those personnel who ways of financing. I also highlighted the interconnection have made the ultimate sacrifice. We record with great between biodiversity, climate change and development. sadness that since our last statement, on 22 July, a Finally, I stressed the importance of the intergovernmental further 19 servicemen and women have lost their lives. platform on biodiversity and ecosystems services (IPBES) Today we are announcing the current status of inquests work and the progress of the economics of ecosystems conducted by the Wiltshire and Swindon and other and biodiversity (TEEB) study. coroners. This statement gives the position at 21 October. Environment Ministers exchanged views on the I have placed tables in the Libraries of both Houses Commission’s proposal on the cultivation of genetically which outline the status of all cases and the date of modified organisms (GMOs) in the EU. The discussion death in each case. Copies are also available in the Vote revealed that there are differing views among the member Office and the Printed Paper Office. These tables include states on the proposal. In particular, several member information about cases where a board of inquiry or a states questioned how the proposal would work in service inquiry has been held. We are encouraged to see practice and the compatibility of the proposal with that the average period of time from the date of death WTO rules. I set out that the UK had yet to finalise its to the inquest continues to reduce, which is of considerable position but welcomed the Commission’s proposal as benefit primarily to the bereaved families, but also to an attempt to find a way through the current impasse other parties to the inquests. The average age of inquests on GMO decisions. I underscored that careful reflection into operational deaths which are yet unlisted is eight was needed of the wider impacts, in particular on the months. consistency of the proposal with the WTO and the Current status of inquests single market as well as the impact on consumer perceptions Since the last statement 36 inquests have been held of food and food security. into the deaths of service personnel on operations in Moving on to climate change business, the Council Iraq or Afghanistan. This makes a total of 361 inquests adopted procedural conclusions on the analysis of options held into deaths of service personnel on operations in to move beyond 20% greenhouse gas emission reductions Iraq and Afghanistan since June 2006, when additional and assessing the risk of carbon leakage. These take resources were first provided to the Oxfordshire coroner. 17WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS

Since operations commenced in 2001 there have been provision for a time in the future when they may lack a total of 415 inquests into the deaths of service personnel capacity. Implementation of the Act has ensured that who have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, these measures are in place. including 11 service personnel who died in the UK of their injuries. In two further cases, no formal inquest was held, but the deaths were taken into consideration during inquest proceedings for those who died in the PRIME MINISTER same incident. We remain deeply grateful for the efforts of all of the coroners who are involved in conducting these inquests. Ministers: Overseas Travel, Hospitality, Gifts and We also wish to reiterate that our Departments are Official External Meetings committed to working together, and to continuing the Government’s support for these coroners. Open inquests The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): The Fatalities in Iraq and Afghanistan Government are today publishing details of ministerial There are no outstanding inquests into deaths prior overseas travel; hospitality received; gifts given and to 1 April 2007, since when fatalities have been repatriated received over £140; and official meetings with external via RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire. Since October 2007 organisations during the period 13 May to 31 July 2010. additional resources have been provided to ensure that This information is being published on departmental a backlog of inquests does not build up in the Wiltshire websites and will be updated and published on a quarterly and Swindon coroner’s district. The coroner, David basis on departmental websites. Ridley, transfers inquests for service personnel to a I am also placing in the Libraries of both Houses: coroner closer to the bereaved family, wherever possible. details of former Ministers’ overseas travel costing over At present there are 102 open inquests to be concluded £500 during 2009-10; details of gifts given and received into the deaths of service personnel who died in Iraq by former Ministers over £140 during 2009-10; and the and Afghanistan (59 involving deaths in the last six annual list of those who received official hospitality at months). Of these, Mr Ridley has retained 33 inquests, Chequers during 2009-10. while 58 inquests are being conducted by coroners closer to the next of kin. At 21 October, one recent fatality awaited repatriation and inquest opening. Hearing Special Adviser Numbers and Costs dates have been set in 10 cases. Inquests into the deaths of service personnel who returned home injured The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): Listed There remain 11 inquests to be held of service personnel below are the names of the special advisers in post at who returned home injured and subsequently died of 28 October 2010, including each special adviser’s pay their injuries. These will be listed for hearing when the band, and actual salary where this is £58,200 or higher, continuing investigations are completed. together with details of the special advisers’ pay ranges for 2010-11. We shall continue to keep the House informed about progress with the remaining inquests. The estimated paybill for the period 12 May 2010 to 31 March 2011 remains at £4.9 million. The paybill cost, including severance, for the period Mental Capacity Act 2005 1 April 2010 to 12 May 2010, totalled £2.1 million, of which £1.8 million was severance. The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice In future, this list of special advisers will be updated (Mr Kenneth Clarke): I am today laying before Parliament on a quarterly basis, and published on the No 10 website. the Government’s memorandum to the Justice Select For the first time, departments are also publishing Committee on post-legislative scrutiny of the Mental today, on their websites, details of gifts and hospitality Capacity Act 2005. received by their special advisers during the period The primary purpose of the Act was to empower and 13Mayto31July. protect people who may lack capacity to make decisions This information will be updated and published on for themselves and to enable people to be able to make departmental websites on a quarterly basis.

Salary if £58,200 Appointing Minister Special Adviser in Post Payband or higher (£)

The Prime Minister Andy Coulson Within scheme ceiling 140,000 Edward Llewellyn Within scheme ceiling 125,000 Kate Fall PB4 100,000 Gabby Berlin PB3 80,000 Tim Chatwin PBS 70,000 Steve Hilton PBS 90,000 19WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS

Salary if £58,200 Appointing Minister Special Adviser in Post Payband or higher (£)

Polly Mackenzie1 PBS 80,000 Henry Macrory PBS 70,000 James O’Shaughnessy PBS 87,000 Lena Pietsch1 PBS 80,000 Liz Sugg PBS 80,000 Peter Campbell PB2 60,000 Sean Kemp1 PB2 60,000 Gavin Lockhart PB2 Michael Salter PB2 65,000 Rohan Silva PB2 60,000 Isabel Spearman (p/t) PB2 Sean Worth PB2 Tim Colbourne1 PB1 Deputy Prime Minister Jonny Oates PB4 98,500 Richard Reeves PBS 85,000 Alison Suttie PBS 80,000 Chris Saunders PB2 60,000 James McGrory PB1 First Secretary of State, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Arminka Helic PBS3 70,000 Denzil Davidson PB2 Will Littlejohn PB1 Chancellor of the Exchequer2 Ramesh Chhabra PB2 60,000 Poppy Mitchell-Rose PB1 Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice David Hass PB2 69,266 Kathryn Laing PB1 Secretary of State for the Home Department and Minister for Women and Equality Fiona Cunningham PB2 65,000 Nick Timothy PB2 65,000 Secretary of State for Defence Luke Coffey PB2 60,740 Oliver Waghorn PB2 60,740 Hayden Allan PB2 Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Katie Waring PB1 Giles Wilkes PB1 Secretary of State for Work and Pensions 1

Susie Squire PB2 Philippa Stroud PB2 69,250 Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Duncan Brack PB2 67,000 Joel Kenrick PB2 Secretary of State for Health Bill Morgan PB3 76,000 Jenny Parsons PB2 21WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS

Salary if £58,200 Appointing Minister Special Adviser in Post Payband or higher (£)

Secretary of State for Education Henry de Zoete PB2 Elena Narozanski PB1 Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Giles Kenningham PB2 64,500 Sheridan Westlake PB2 64,500 Secretary of State for Transport Sian Jones PB2 Paul Stephenson PB2 Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Simon Cawte PB2 Secretary of State for International Development Philippa Buckley PB1 Richard Parr PB1 Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Jonathan Caine PB2 69,266 Secretary of State for Scotland Euan Roddin PB2 60,000 Secretary of State for Wales Richard Hazlewood PB1 Secretary of State for Culture, Media, the Olympics and Sport Adam Smith PB2 Sue Beeby PB1 Chief Secretary Will de Peyer PB2 63,000 Julia Goldsworthy3 PB3 74,000 Minister without Portfolio Naweed Khan PB0 Leader of the House of Lords, and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Flo Coleman PB0 Elizabeth Hanna PB0 Minister for the Cabinet Office, Paymaster General Laura Trott PB2 Minister of State, Cabinet Office Martha Varney PB1 Minister of State (Universities and Science), BIS Nick Hillman PB2 Leader of the House of Commons and Lord Privy Seal Robert Riddell PB2 Chief Whip (Commons) Chris White PB2 68,000 Ben Williams PB2 1Appointed by the Deputy Prime Minister and based in No. 10. 2In addition, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has appointed Rupert Harrison (PB3, £80,000), and Eleanor Shawcross (PB2) to the Council of Economic Advisers. 3Julia Goldsworthy will not receive her salary as a special adviser until November 2010, as she was in receipt of a Resettlement Grant when she lost her parliamentary seat at the general election in May. 23WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS

Special Adviser Pay Bands for 2010-11. Highway and Local Transport Schemes (Point of The pay bands and pay ranges for special advisers for Order) 2010-11 are as follows:

Scheme Ceiling £142,668 The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Pay Band 4 £88,966 - £106,864 Hammond): I refer to the points of order made in the Pay Band 3 and Premium £66,512 - £103,263 House on Tuesday 26 October expressing concern that Pay Band 2 £52,215 - 69,266 an advance copy of my statement on investment in Pay Band 1 £40,352 - £54,121 highway and local transport schemes had been made Pay Band 0 Up to £40,352 available to the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). In response to those points of order, I stated that I had no knowledge of any advance copy of the statement being made available to him. I have since been informed that an advance copy of TRANSPORT the statement was sent by my office to the hon. Member for Cheltenham at the same time as a copy was sent to the official Opposition spokesman. I was not aware of this at the time and I would like to apologise for Cost of Ministerial Cars (2009-10) inadvertently misleading the House.

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Hammond): I am publishing today details of the number WORK AND PENSIONS of and cost to Departments of Government cars provided to Ministers by the Government Car and Despatch Agency during the year 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010. Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council No of Cars at 31-03-2010 Total Cost The Minister of State, Department for Work and Cabinet Office 4 £362,790.25 Pensions (Chris Grayling): The Employment, Social Policy, Department for Business, 7 £694,236.23 Health and Consumer Affairs Council was held on Innovation and Skills 21 October 2010 in Luxembourg. Andy Lebrecht, UK Department for Education 6 £489,193.30 (formerly Department for Deputy Permanent Representative to the EU, represented Children, Schools and the United Kingdom. Families) The main item of the agenda was a policy debate on Department for Communities 6 £488,276.10 the employment and social inclusion aspects of Europe and Local Government 2020, the new European agenda for the next 10 years. Department for Culture, Media 3 £305,397.32 The presidency set out the mechanics of the new EU2020 and Sport governance arrangements stating that the joint employment Department for Energy and 4 £303,129.83 report should be the main vehicle for submitting messages Climate Change to the spring European Council and the subsequent Department for Environment, 2 £275,989.34 Food and Rural Affairs country-specific recommendations to the summer European Department for International 3 £256,656.35 Council. The UK supported the proposed governance Development arrangements, noting that the joint employment report Department for Transport 3 £282,979.08 should focus on robust evidence of what works. The Department for Work and 6 £506,726.45 UK outlined the key features of the spending review in Pensions this area—welfare reform and helping people into work. Department of Health 6 £475,490.38 The UK would now consider the issue of “bottlenecks” Foreign & Commonwealth 4 £368,534.31 and reform priorities in the EU context. Office The Social Protection Committee Opinion on Social HM Treasury* 6 £462,989.33 Protection and Social Inclusion in the Europe 2020 Home Office 6 £514,593.50 strategy was adopted. The presidency invited member Law Officers’ Department 2 £188,130.75 states to comment on their own input to the social Ministry of Defence 1 £106,342.80 dimension of Europe 2020, particularly through national Ministry of Justice 4 £320,429.90 poverty targets and the national reform programmes. Northern Ireland Office 2 £77,850.84 The Commission stressed that real consideration of the Scotland Office 1 £107,812.75 social dimension of Europe 2020 was essential if the Wales Office 2 £150,504.20 strategy were to be a success, and urged member states Total 78 £6,738,053.01 to finalise their national targets. The UK explained that *Note. Figures quoted for HM Treasury do not include direct an approach to the national target had not yet been payments made outside of GCDA. confirmed. The UK showed support for effective use of Ministers are now encouraged to use public transport the open method of co-ordination and stressed that where practicable and the number of Ministers entitled excessive new reporting burdens should be avoided. to an allocated Government car and driver has been The Council adopted the employment guidelines. kept to a minimum. Other Ministers are entitled to The UK abstained in order to respect the UK parliamentary make use of the ministerial car pool service as needed. scrutiny position. 25WS Written Ministerial Statements28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 26WS

The Commission presented its recent initiative, Youth Commission stressed that the issue of demographic on the Move. This proposes to encourage worker mobility, change would remain to be tackled even after the economic improve education quality, training systems and support crisis had passed and that pension reform would to young job seekers and entrepreneurs. The Commission consequently need to remain high on the agenda. also set out their intention for a new Roma communication next April. This would set out a framework for National The presidency reported on conferences on poverty, Roma Integration, in which member states would be child poverty, pensions and green jobs and also informed encouraged to develop strategies to deal with their delegates about preparations for the next tripartite social Roma populations. On the Pensions Green Paper, the summit.

389W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 390W Written Answers to Sittings Simon Hart: To ask the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, Questions representing the House of Commons Commission, pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for North Essex of 13 October 2010, Official Report, columns Thursday 28 October 2010 290-91W, on sittings, how many building contracts on the Parliamentary Estate were (a) cancelled and (b) deferred as a result of the September sitting; what the ATTORNEY-GENERAL monetary value of each contract was; and what estimate has been made of the cost to the House Service of Disclosure of Information: Homicide cancellation or deferral. [19657]

Stephen Barclay: To ask the Attorney-General Sir Stuart Bell: No building contracts were cancelled pursuant to the answer of 19 October 2010, Official as the reduced recess was planned for. Some projects Report, column 643W, on disclosure of information: which might have been included in the programme in a homicide, for what reason the Crown Prosecution longer summer recess were not undertaken in the shorter Service (CPS) has not disclosed to the family of David recess, but only one, redecoration of the ceiling within Gray its contacts with the German authorities in the the Shadow Cabinet Conference Room, is identifiable. case of Daniel Ubani; and if he will direct the CPS to This project was deferred but there was no cost to this do so. [20143] deferral. The Attorney-General: A CPS prosecutor informed Mr and Dr Gray, by letter of 2 April 2009, that steps were being taken to discover from the German authorities COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT the events leading to Dr Ubani being dealt with under German criminal law. The minutes of the meeting with the German authorities Council Housing: Waiting Lists cannot be disclosed because Eurojust meetings are covered by a confidentiality agreement. This is not a matter James Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for therefore in which I could consider disclosure. Communities and Local Government if he will take steps to reduce the number of people on council housing waiting lists. [20043]

SCOTLAND Andrew Stunell: The Government are considering Cross Border Cooperation: Tourism measures to support councils developing local responses to managing their housing waiting lists more effectively Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland and in ways which best reflect local circumstances, what steps the Secretary of State is taking to enhance while continuing to ensure that the priority for social and increase cross-border economic co-operation between housing goes to those in greatest need. England and Scotland for tourism growth. [20186] We are also investing nearly £6.5 billion in the homes this country needs over the spending review period, Michael Moore: I will be meeting the chairman of with £4.5 billion to fund new affordable homes including Visit Scotland in the very near future to discuss the £100 million to bring empty homes back into use as importance of Scottish tourism, at both local and national affordable housing. level, and how it can lead economic growth and recovery. Housing Benefit

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Members: Childcare Vouchers Communities and Local Government (1) what assessment he has made of the effects on the number of Jo Swinson: To ask the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, people declared homeless of the proposed changes to representing the House of Commons Commission, what housing benefit entitlement in each of the next four assessment the House of Commons Commission made years; and if he will make a statement; [20175] of recommendation 52 of the Speaker’s Conference on (2) what estimate he has made of the effect on local parliamentary representation, to allow Members to take authority costs of fulfilling their statutory obligation to a proportion of their salary in the form of childcare provide accommodation for families who have been vouchers prior to the transfer of responsibility for that made homeless of a reduction in housing benefit matter to the Independent Parliamentary Standards entitlements. [20176] Authority. [20051] Grant Shapps: The Department for Work and Pensions Sir Stuart Bell: The Commission has made no assessment (DWP) has published estimates of the numbers of of recommendation 52 of the Speaker’s Conference on households that will be affected by the changes to local parliamentary representation. It would not have been housing allowance rates in 2011-12. However, it is not appropriate to make the proposed changes so close to possible to estimate the number of households that will the transfer of responsibility to IPSA. move as a consequence of the changes. 391W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 392W

A copy of the document ‘Impacts of Housing Benefit Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for proposals: Changes to the Local Housing Allowance to Communities and Local Government what the (a) be introduced in 2011-12’ has been placed in the Library estimated percentage and (b) absolute difference of the House. between average social housing rents and the proposed rents of 80% of market level is for each (i) year of the Housing: St Albans spending review period and (ii) local authority with housing responsibilities. [19807]

Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Grant Shapps: We will publish more detail on the and Local Government whether he has made a recent implementation of new “affordable rent” tenure shortly. estimate of the (a) number and (b) monetary value of homes which could be built on undeveloped sites in St Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Albans which are held by registered social landlords in Communities and Local Government whether social land banks. [19666] housing tenants who move to a new property will pay rent at 80% of market level. [19808] Andrew Stunell: The Department for Communities and Local Government has not made a recent estimate Grant Shapps: Existing tenants of local authorities of the number or monetary value of homes which could and housing associations will retain their current tenancy be built on undeveloped land in St Albans owned by and rent arrangements. registered social landlords. Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Regeneration: Hull Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of (a) the number of social tenants who will Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for pay 80% of market rate rent and (b) the revenue raised Communities and Local Government what plans he has through such rents (i) gross and (ii) net of housing for the future of his Department’s housing regeneration benefit; and how these figures differ from current schemes at Orchard Park and Bransholme North in equivalents. [19814] Hull North constituency; and if he will make a statement. [19509] Grant Shapps: Existing tenants of local authorities and housing associations paying social rents will retain Andrew Stunell: The Department’s position on and their current tenancy and rent arrangements. funding support for its housing and other PFI projects We will publish more information on the new tenure will be considered and confirmed as quickly as possible shortly. following the spending review 2010 settlement. Ministers will assess projects on a case-by-case basis Trading Standards for value for money and against other departmental priorities. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Tenants have voted to transfer the Bransholme North Communities and Local Government what arrangements Estate to a housing association and subject to Ministers he has made for funding of local authority trading granting consent the transfer should take place later standards officers to discharge their responsibilities in this year. the event of an animal disease outbreak. [19710] Mr Paice: I have been asked to reply. Social Rented Housing Funding provided to local authorities via the rate support grant includes an element for handling emergencies Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for and therefore there is no provision within the DEFRA Communities and Local Government whether the budget to cover such costs arising within one or more proposed social rent level based on 80% of the market local authorities in the event of a disease outbreak. level will be applied in circumstances in which a social housing tenancy is created by assignment. [19804]

Andrew Stunell: Where a social tenant assigns a social WALES rent tenancy, for example by way of mutual exchange, then the new tenant will continue to pay a social rent. Prisons

Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Communities and Local Government what estimate he what recent discussions she has had with ministerial has made of the number of payments in respect of colleagues on the provision of prison places in north which tenants will pay the new 80% of market level Wales. [20025] rents; how much rent income will be raised (a) gross and (b) net of housing benefit; and how much more Mr David Jones: Both my right hon. Friend and I rent income he expects to be raised than that raised have recently discussed the provision of prison places in from existing social housing rents net of housing north Wales with ministerial colleagues and we remain benefit. [19806] supportive of a new prison being built there. The Ministry of Justice is committed to publishing a Grant Shapps: We will publish more detail on the new Green Paper on rehabilitation and sentencing, and tenure shortly. consulting on longer term plans for offender management. 393W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 394W

Following this the coalition Government will be in a Cost (£) position to evaluate our long-term strategy for prison capacity. Leeds—29 June 2010 3,603 We will continue to work closely with my hon. Friend, Cornwall—9 July 2010 2,934 the Prisons Minister as decisions on the prison estate Luton—16 July 2010 2,743 are made, to ensure that the implications for north Birmingham—3 August 2010 5,211 Wales are fully taken into account. Brighton—5 August 2010 3,681 Manchester—10 August 2010 3,976 Public Expenditure As with all visits I was accompanied by a small number of officials and special advisers as necessary. Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what recent discussions she has had with the (a) Welsh Assembly government, (b) Welsh Local Government Association and (c) Welsh Council for Voluntary Action on the effect of the comprehensive spending FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE review on the block grant for Wales; and if she will make a statement. [20061] Brazil: Fossil Fuels

Mrs Gillan: I have discussed the comprehensive spending Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for review with a range of organisations, including the First Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has Minister and other Welsh Assembly Government Ministers. had recent discussions with the government of Brazil I intend to continue a programme of meetings with on fossil fuel subsidy reform. [19885] organisations and individuals from across Wales to discuss key issues, including the comprehensive spending Mr Bellingham: The issue of fossil fuel subsidy reform review outcome. was discussed with the Government of Brazil during Over the course of the spending review period, the the Group of Twenty Summit in Toronto in June. Welsh Assembly Government will have a 7.5% reduction in their resource budget, which is a smaller reduction Conflict Pool than the UK average. This equates to an average cut of less than 2% each year. Yvette Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for It is now for the Welsh Assembly Government to Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what decide how to manage these reductions reflecting their contribution his Department plans to make to the own policies and priorities. Conflict Pool in each year from 2010-11 to 2014-15; [19685] (2) how much his Department plans to spend on PRIME MINISTER conflict prevention in each year from 2010-11 to 2014-15. [19689] Domestic Visits Mr Hague [holding answer 26 October 2010]: Funding for the tri-departmental Conflict Pool has been provided Stewart Hosie: To ask the Prime Minister what estimate through the spending round separately from departmental (1) he has made of the cost to the public purse of (a) expenditure limits. We expect to announce detailed transport, (b) venue and accommodation, (c) printed allocations for Conflict Pool activity for 2011-12 in materials, including backdrops, (d) security, (e) staffing, coming weeks. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (f) filming and photography and (g) other costs of has not contributed additional funds to the Conflict each Prime Minister Direct event; [13262] Pool in 2010-11. (2) what vetting his Office undertakes of people Funding for the Peacekeeping Budget and the Conflict attending Prime Minister Direct events; [13263] Pool is provided for separately by the Treasury and does (3) how many (a) civil servants and (b) special not come from departmental expenditure limits. As a advisers accompanied him on each Prime Minister result, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office does not Direct event. [13264] usually contribute additional funds from its own departmental budget and has not done so in 2010-11. The Prime Minister: Since my appointment as Prime Minister I have held a series of public meetings which Departmental Public Expenditure provide members of the public with an opportunity to raise local, regional or national issues with me directly. Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for The events have been arranged in accordance with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his ministerial and civil service guidelines. Costs have been Department plans to allocate to (a) the Stabilisation minimised as far as possible. In each case these events Aid Fund, (b) the Conflict Prevention Pool, (c) the were parts of wider visits to those areas. The audience is Discretionary Peacekeeping Fund, (d) the BBC World not selected by No. 10 and questions are chosen at Service, excluding the BBC World Service Trust, (e) random. the BBC World Service Trust, (f) the Special Reserve, The cost of these events is as follows. The cost of any (g) the British Council and (h) the Security and security provided by the police is a matter for the Intelligence Fund for (i) 2010-11, (ii) 2011-12, (iii) relevant police force. 2012-13, (iv) 2013-14 and (v) 2014-15. [20208] 395W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 396W

Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office I raised these points most recently with my European has not yet set budgets for 2011-12 or beyond. Detailed counterparts during the General and Foreign Affairs allocations will be agreed during the coming weeks. Councils (GAC/FAC) on 25 October 2010 and will (a), (b), (c): On 1 April 2009 the Conflict Prevention continue to do so at every opportunity. Pool and the Stabilisation Aid Fund were merged to The EU Commission is also already working on an form the Conflict Pool, which is managed tri-departmentally Inter-Institutional review of European Agencies which by the Department for International Development (DFID), will focus on ways to encourage efficiency, transparency the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and the and value for money in their day-to-day functioning. Ministry of Defence (MOD). At the same time, We are closely involved in the consultation process of responsibility for discretionary peacekeeping costs also this review. moved to the Conflict Pool. Gibraltar: Spain Funding for the Conflict Pool has been provided through the spending round separately from departmental expenditure limits (DELs). The FCO has not contributed Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for additional funds to the Conflict Pool in 2010-11. Priorities Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he and allocations for 2011-12 will be determined in the plans to take to stop people crossing the border from coming weeks. We will continue to seek to maintain a Gibraltar to Spain being charged a toll by the La Linea range of activities in priority regions where the risk and authorities. [19625] impact of conflict is greatest. Mr Lidington: We have raised our concerns over the (d) (g) Updated information on the 2010-11 budget Mayor of La Linea’s earlier proposed actions to impose allocations for the British Council and the BBC World a charge on traffic entering/leaving Gibraltar with the Service will be published in the Winter Supplementary Spanish Government. It is for them to resolve this issue. Estimates. Our priority is to keep the traffic flowing at the border. For the period 2011-15, the budget allocations (resource We believe that the Spanish Government shares this and capital funding) are as follows. From 2014-15, the goal. They have made clear that EU and Spanish law BBC will fund the World Service from the licence fee. will be fully respected and that they do not consider that the Mayor of La Linea’s earlier proposed actions would £ million (nominal, excluding depreciation) be legal. We continue to keep in close touch with the 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 Government of Gibraltar and to follow developments in La Linea. BBC 253 242 238 0 World Human Rights: Kosovo Service British 180 171 162 154 Council Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has (e) The BBC World Service Trust is an independent made an assessment of the implications for his charity funded by external grants and voluntary Department’s policies of the opinion given by the contributions. The FCO makes no specific allocation to International Court of Justice on Kosovo. [19978] it each year but may fund individual projects on an ad-hoc basis. Mr Lidington: The UK Government welcome the (f) The FCO makes no allocations to the ’Special International Court of Justice’s (ICJ) Advisory Opinion Reserve’ which is part of the Treasury Reserve. confirming that Kosovo’s Declaration of Independence did not violate international law. The legal process (h) The FCO makes no allocation to the Single Intelligence before the ICJ has come to its end. This should mean an Account. end to debate about Kosovo’s status. The UK Government remain firm in their conviction that Kosovo’s status as a European Union sovereign state, with its territory defined by its existing borders, is a positive force for stability in the western Balkans. The UK Government also welcome the consensus Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for shown in the UN General Assembly in adopting, on 9 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions September, a resolution on the ICJ Opinion. The resolution he has had with (a) his European counterparts, (b) the acknowledged the content of the Opinion and welcomed European Commission and (c) others on the cost and the readiness of the European Union (EU) to facilitate number of European Union public bodies; and if he a dialogue between Pristina and Belgrade to promote will make a statement. [20138] co-operation, achieve progress on the path towards the EU and improve the lives of the people. Mr Lidington: As my right hon. Friend the Prime The Government strongly support preparations for Minister explained, at Prime Minister Questions on this dialogue, which will open a new phase in the 27 October 2010, Official Report, column 309: relationship between Kosovo and Serbia as both move ‘The greatest priority for Britain should be to fight very hard towards EU membership. to get the EU budget under control. It is completely unacceptable, at a time when we are making tough budget decisions here, that Military Bases we are seeing spending rise consistently in the European Union. I think that is wrong and I shall be doing everything I can to try to sort out the budget for next year, and also to look at the future Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for financing of the European Union, where we want to see strict Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss controls.’ with his Organisation for Security and Co-operation in 397W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 398W

Europe (OSCE) counterparts the implications for the Mr Lidington: Our embassy in Ankara regularly raises Russian Federation’s role as co-chair of the OSCE issues relating to freedom of expression—including the Minsk Group of the extension of the Russian Federation’s arrests of journalists—in the context of wider discussions lease on the Gyumri military base. [19976] on human rights with its Turkish counterparts. Freedom of expression remains a key area for reform in Turkey, Mr Lidington: The UK and Organisation for Security and we expect the next EU Progress Report, due to be and Co-operation in Europe partners continue to support published on 10 November 2010, to address this issue the work of the Minsk Group Co-chairs—Russia, France again. and the US—in pursuing a peaceful resolution to the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. Russia, in its role as co-chair, hosted a summit between President Aliyev of HOME DEPARTMENT Azerbaijan and President Sargsyan of Armenia on 27 October to help maintain dialogue between the two Criminal Records Bureau countries. There has been long-standing military co-operation between Armenia and the Russian Federation Simon Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for the and the most recent agreement on the extension of the Home Department what her policy is on the inclusion lease on Gyumri military base reflects that. of harassment warnings in Enhanced Criminal Records Bureau checks; and if she will make a statement. [19116] Security: EU Lynne Featherstone: The Criminal Records Bureau Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for (CRB) operates under part v of the Police Act 1997 (the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss ‘Act’). The Act places a duty on the CRB (as the with his Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Secretary of State) to include details of all convictions, Europe (OSCE) counterparts the (a) role of the EU cautions, reprimands and warnings that are recorded and (b) composition of the OSCE Minsk Group. on the police national computer (PNC) on a certificate. [19977] The CRB will not routinely include harassment warnings on a CRB certificate unless it forms part of a disposal Mr Lidington: I have had and will continue to have of a conviction/caution that is recorded on the PNC. regular dialogue with a range of Organisation for Security Immigration Controls: France and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) partners about the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and the work of the Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for the Minsk Group. The composition of the group has not Home Department what plans she has for the future of featured in those contacts and there has been no suggestion juxtaposed border controls in France; and if she will that it needs to be changed. make a statement. [19855] Like other OSCE partners, the UK continues to support the Minsk Group and its co-Chairs and encourages Damian Green: There are no plans to change our all parties to the conflict to work towards a lasting juxtaposed controls in northern Europe. My right hon. solution based on the principles of: refraining from the Friend the Home Secretary and myself have both met threat or use of force; territorial integrity; and people’s with our French counterparts to discuss migration issues, right to self-determination. During my visit to Azerbaijan including the juxtaposed controls and wider bilateral on 20-21 October, and in recent phone conversations co-operation, and it is expected that agreement will with Armenian Foreign Minister Nalbandian, I explored soon be reached on the next phase of UK-France the possibility of increased UK and EU activity to help collaboration at the border controls in northern Europe. support the peace process. Members: Correspondence Transcaucasus: Diplomatic Service Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when she plans to reply to the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many people letter of 8 September 2010 from the right hon. Member were employed by his Department’s diplomatic mission for Manchester, Gorton on Mr O. Uillah. [19861] in (a) Armenia, (b) Azerbaijan and (c) Georgia on Damian Green: I apologise for the delay in replying to the latest date for which figures are available. [18504] the letter of 8 September 2010. A reply should be provided to the hon. Member within the next 10 days. Mr Lidington: At 1 October 2010 the Foreign and Commonwealth Office employed approximately (a) 20 staff Police: Crime Prevention at the British embassy in Yerevan, Armenia; (b) 40 staff at the British embassy in Baku, Azerbaijan; (c) 50 staff Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for the at the British embassy in Tbilisi, Georgia. These figures Home Department what recent assessment she has made include UK-based civil servants and staff engaged locally of the relationship between the number of front-line and have been rounded for operational and security police officers and levels of crime in neighbourhoods. reasons. [16416] Turkey: Arrests Nick Herbert: Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary recently reported that on average only Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 11% of forces’ police manpower is visibly available to and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations the public at any one time. What matters is how officers his Department has made to the government of Turkey are deployed. Our aim is to reduce costs and bureaucracy on arrests of journalists. [19830] to ensure that resources can be directed to the front line. 399W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 400W

UK Border Agency We envisage that local authorities may want to play different roles in terms of the Green Deal, whether as Mr Woolas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Green Deal providers in their own right, or in forming Home Department what estimate she has made of the partnerships with companies active in their areas. We cost to the public purse of the UK Border Agency are currently considering proposals from the Local juxtaposed border controls in France in 2010-11. Government Group around the contribution local [19065] government can make to the Green Deal.

Damian Green: The cost of the juxtaposed border Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy controls including northern France ports and Paris in and Climate Change what discussions his Department 2010-11 is £50.8 million. has had with (a) the Local Government Association, (b) local authorities and (c) the Department for Communities and Local Government on the role of local authorities in the rolling out of the Green Deal. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE [19957] Carbon Emissions Gregory Barker: My ministerial colleagues and I have discussed the Green Deal with the Local Government Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Association (LGA), local authorities and DCLG. and Climate Change what assessment his Department has made of the performance of local authorities in the The Local Government Group (of which the LGA delivery of the Carbon Emission Reduction Target forms a part) has set out specific proposals from the scheme; and if he will make a statement. [19959] local government side on how it might play a role in delivering the Green Deal. We will be discussing these Gregory Barker: The Carbon Emissions Reduction proposals further in the coming months. Target (CERT) is an obligation placed on large energy suppliers to reduce carbon emissions from households Fuel Poverty in Great Britain and does not require local government to meet any specific function or target. Most obligated Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy CERT suppliers do form partnerships with local authorities, and Climate Change what recent steps his Department social housing providers and others in helping deliver has taken to reduce fuel poverty; and if he will make a their schemes, capitalising on local knowledge, trusted statement. [19954] brands and in some instances additional funding. We are currently conducting an evaluation of the Gregory Barker: The Government are totally committed CERT scheme, which will gather evidence on the range to helping those households that are in fuel poverty. We and effectiveness of the delivery routes adopted by remain committed to doing all that is reasonably practicable suppliers in delivering their CERT obligation. to eradicate fuel poverty in all households in England Departmental Publications by 2016. The Government are permanently increasing cold Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy weather payments to £25 to help around 4.2 million and Climate Change what assessment he has made of elderly and disabled households on low-incomes during the recommendations relevant to his Department’s policy periods of cold weather. The winter fuel payment remains responsibilities contained in the Government Office for unchanged. Science’s Foresight report on Mental Capacity and Well- We have recently extended the carbon emissions reduction being; if he will ensure that his Department take steps target, introducing a greater focus on targeting energy to promote well-being; if he will ensure that his efficiency measures at the most vulnerable households Department’s policy development process takes account by introducing a Super Priority Group. of psychological research into subjective well-being; We intend to introduce mandated Social Price Support and if he will make a statement. [20265] in April 2011, to replace the existing Voluntary Agreement with energy suppliers in order to provide direct energy Gregory Barker: In developing household energy bill support to a large number of vulnerable households. efficiency and fuel poverty polices Government take account of the need to promote well being among Funding for the Warm Front scheme was announced vulnerable householders to ensure that they are able to in the spending review through to 2012-13. Going forward, benefit from the policies. the Green Deal is a key element of our policy to improve household energy efficiency. It will help protect Energy: Carbon Emissions people against price rises through greater energy saving, with special support for the most vulnerable. The new Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Energy Company Obligation will provide additional and Climate Change what role he expects local funding for the vulnerable and those in hard to treat authorities to play in the roll-out of the Green Deal; homes who may need additional support. and if he will make a statement. [19956] Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: The Green Deal will provide the Energy and Climate Change if he will use his powers opportunity for all householders to take action to improve under the Energy Act 2010 to bring forward the energy efficiency of their homes and communities. mandatory social price support. [20573] 401W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 402W

Gregory Barker: Energy suppliers will be required after careful consideration, we decided that the scheme from April 2011 to provide greater help with the financial as it relates to early adopters should remain unchanged. costs of energy bills to more of the most vulnerable fuel The Department estimated that allowing all1 such poor households, through Social Price Support—with existing generators to claim FITs at full rate, without total support of £250 million in 2011-12 rising to £310 repaying grants would represent a discounted cost in million in 2014-15. the order of £5.8 million2 for the period 2011-12. In Government will implement Social Price Support by addition to these costs there would be additional using the enabling powers in the Energy Act 2010 to administrative costs to DECC, Ofgem and suppliers. In make regulations requiring energy suppliers to participate practice, these administrative costs would have increased, in the Social Price Support scheme. had such a policy also included a requirement to repay some or all of any grant. Pat Glass: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy 1 These figures are based on estimated numbers of sub-50kW and Climate Change what recent estimate he has made installations prior to 15 July 2009 that received grants from the of the number of households living in fuel poverty in following programmes: Clear Skies, LCBP1, LCBP2 and the (a) North West Durham constituency, (b) the North Major PV Demo Programme. East and (c) the UK. [20858] 2 Costs are presented in 2009 prices, discounted. Notes: Gregory Barker: In 2006, the most recent year for 1. Costs are net FITs subsidy costs, i.e. net of the value of exports which sub-regional figures are available, there were around to suppliers. 6,900 fuel poor households in the North West Durham constituency. 2. Admin costs of administering a higher number of FIT installations have not been included here. In 2008, there were 236,000 fuel poor households in 3. Costs assume that existing generators would be paid FITs for the north east and 4.5 million fuel poor households in the full installation lifetime. the UK. 4. Cost estimations should be caveated, as we do not know the Renewable Energy precise number of existing generators and which technologies/scales they have invested in. Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether his Department plans to equalise the rate of return on solar thermal Tidal Power energy with the rate of return on other renewable energy sources within the Renewable Heat Incentive. [20494] Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to assess Gregory Barker: As announced on 20 October 2010, the merits of establishing further tidal energy projects. as part of the spending review, the Renewable Heat [20684] Incentive (RHI) will go ahead in 2011. As part of the spending review process we have looked again at the Gregory Barker: The coalition agreement states that RHI to target the scheme more effectively. We have the Government more work to do to determine support levels. We expect to be in a position to announce the details of the “will introduce measures to encourage marine energy”, scheme, including RHI tariffs and technologies supported, underlining our commitment to building a successful before the end of this year, and be open for business wave and tidal energy sector in the UK as part of a from June 2011. diverse energy mix. In our “Annual Energy Statement” to Parliament we stated that, Renewable Technology “The Government will support the development of marine energy in the UK by providing opportunity for deployment of Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for marine energy devices alongside onshore infrastructure such as Energy and Climate Change what estimate his grid, industry and supply chain development, economic regeneration, Department has made of the cost to his Department in skills and academic excellence.” 2011-12 of increasing feed-in tariff payments offered to Given the UK’s rich tidal energy resource and expertise individuals who installed renewable technology before in this emerging sector we consider that tidal energy is 15 July 2009 to the rate available to those who did so likely to form a significant part of this deployment. after that date. [19147]

Charles Hendry: The primary objective of the Feed-in Wards in Gateshead Tariffs (FITs) scheme is to incentivise additional small-scale, low carbon electricity generation. Extending FITs to sub-50kW installations made before 15 July 2009 could Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy not deliver this objective. and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of Extending FITs to existing installations would increase 22 October 2010, Official Report, column 923W, what the costs of the scheme, without the corresponding the equivalent figures are for those wards in Gateshead benefit of new installations. We do not think that this constituency which were formerly part of the Tyne represents value for money, particularly in the current Bridge constituency; and if he will make a statement. economic climate, and cannot therefore justify the additional [19953] cost to consumers, who ultimately pay for the scheme. Additionally, it would set a precedent for other incentive Gregory Barker: Equivalent fuel poverty data are not schemes such as the renewable heat incentive. Therefore, available at ward level for 2006. 403W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 404W

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Richard Benyon: The tables show the number of staff subject to disciplinary and performance action in each Asbestos of the last six years. Data prior to 2005-06 is not easily available and to obtain this information would be at a Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for disproportionate cost. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what powers The tables show the number of staff subject to local authorities have to (a) identify, (b) assess, (c) disciplinary or performance action and whether they manage and (d) dispose of asbestos sheeting on land were transferred or dismissed as a result of these actions. where the ownership is unknown or in dispute; and if If staff are removed from post then this would result; in she will make a statement. [19184] either their transfer or dismissal and these data are Richard Benyon: Local authorities have powers under therefore included in those categories. section 59 (7) of the Environmental Protection Act The following information is provided for Core DEFRA 1990 to remove any controlled waste which has been and its Executive Agencies: deposited without authorisation in order to prevent Table 1: Disciplinary action pollution or harm to human health, including from Number of land which has no occupier. staff subject to disciplinary Transferred to Bees action another post1 Dismissed Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, 2010-11 25 1 3 Food and Rural Affairs how many beekeepers have 2009-10 69 1 6 alerted the National Bee Unit to bee health problems in 2008-09 58 4 5 each of the last five years. [18824] 2007-08 43 2 12 2006-07 50 0 20 Mr Paice: The number of inspections in each of the 2005-06 34 1 11 last five years carried out by the Food and Environment 1 Includes DEFRA and its Agencies except Rural Payments Agency Research Agency’s National Bee Unit’s Bee Inspectors (RPA) who could provide the data only at disproportionate cost. as a result of being contacted by beekeepers are set out Table 2: Performance action in the table. As the number of beekeepers is increasing, Number of staff and they are becoming more aware of disease risks, we subject to would expect the number of contacts to rise. performance Transferred to action another post1 Dismissed

Inspections 2010-11 13 3 2 2009-10 33 1 5 2006 611 2008-09 35 7 5 2007 985 2007-08 38 2 9 2008 1,095 2006-07 30 1 10 2009 1,429 2005-06 22 1 9 2010 11,341 1 Includes DEFRA and its Agencies except RPA who could provide 1 Partial year the data only at disproportionate cost. Common Agricultural Policy Departmental Publications Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what priorities Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for she has set for her negotiations in the Council of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Ministers on the proposed reform of the Common she has made of recommendations relevant to her Agricultural Policy; and if she will make a statement. Department’s policy responsibilities contained in the [19204] Government Office for Science’s Foresight report on Mental Capacity and Well-being; if she will ensure that Mr Paice: The UK is committed to ambitious reform her Department takes steps to promote well-being; if of the common agricultural policy (CAP) that delivers she will ensure that her Department’s policy development good value for farmers, taxpayers, consumers and the process takes account of psychological research into environment. A future CAP must enable a sustainable, subjective well-being; and if she will make a statement. thriving and competitive EU agriculture and food sector [20281] that is able to rise to the challenges and opportunities of the future. Negotiations on CAP will take place in the Richard Benyon: My Department has played a leading context of a Communication which we expect to be role in developing our understanding of the relationship published by the Commission in November. between departmental policies and well-being and has Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings noted the policy recommendations made in the Government Office for Science’s Foresight report on Mental Capacity Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, and Well-being. Food and Rural Affairs how many officials in her Departmental statisticians and social researchers have Department have been (a) subject to disciplinary action, developed and produced well-being indicators and analyses (b) removed from post, (c) transferred to another over the last five years as part of the national set of position and (d) dismissed for matters relating to their sustainable development indicators. They are now working (i) disciplinary record and (ii) performance in each year closely with the Office for National Statistics and Cabinet since 1997. [18757] Office, who are developing measures of societal well-being. 405W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 406W

Economists and social researchers from DEFRA are Richard Benyon: Recent talks on the management of taking a lead role in the cross-government Social Impacts the North-East Atlantic mackerel stock have not included Task Force (co-chaired by DEFRA’s chief economist). Greenland. The negotiations have been between the The taskforce’s remit includes the development of guidance EU, Norway, the Faroe Islands and Iceland as the to help Departments assess social impacts of government coastal states, and the Russian Federation has attended policies; and highlighting the importance of social impacts as an observer. We are not aware of any claim by and well-being indicators in cost benefit analysis and Greenland on the North-East Atlantic mackerel stock. impact assessment of policies. Flood Control Environment Agency: Apprentices Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Food and Rural Affairs what steps she plans to take to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many implement the proposed savings of 15% in her Department’s apprentices were in post at the Environment Agency on flood defences procurement strategy. [19783] the latest date for which figures are available; and how many such apprentices recruited in the last 12 months Richard Benyon: In real terms, 15% efficiency savings (a) were previously apprentices, (b) had been long- in flood and coastal risk management procurement is term unemployed and (c) are graduates. [20269] equivalent to delivering an average of 2% more in terms of outcomes, each and every year, between now and Richard Benyon: There is one apprentice in post at the 2015. The Environment Agency is developing a new Environment Agency as of 26 October 2010. This four-year procurement strategy which will set out how these savings apprenticeship is due to end shortly. will be achieved. The Environment Agency’s main The Environment Agency recruited one other apprentice contractual frameworks are due for renewal, and these in the last 12 months. The individual has now left the present an opportunity to commission segments of organisation without completing the apprenticeship. capital and asset maintenance work to clearly defined They were not a previous apprentice, long-term unemployed service levels and outcomes. or a graduate. Foxes Fisheries Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the total discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues on mackerel catch was in respect of (a) UK and (b) control of urban foxes by local authorities in Northern Ireland fisheries in each of the last five years. residential areas. [19902] [20183] Richard Benyon: Neither I nor the Secretary of State Richard Benyon: The total mackerel catch made by have had any recent discussions with ministerial colleagues UK and Northern Ireland vessels in the years 2005 to on control of urban foxes by local authorities in residential 2009 (the last year for which final official statistics are areas. available) is set out in the following table: National England Office Catch (tonnes live weight) 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 Martin Vickers: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many staff United 155,443 103,050 133,904 128,246 172,304 in each Natural England office are designated as (a) Kingdom managers and (b) field workers. [20140] Of which: Northern 9,068 9,380 11,004 6,038 3,341 Richard Benyon: Natural England does not designate Ireland two categories of its staff, but currently has 304 managers and 2,296 other staff across its offices and other sites. Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Nature Conservation: Convictions Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent assessment she has made of the contribution of the mackerel catch to the fishing industry. [20184] Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Richard Benyon: Mackerel is currently the most valuable people were (a) proceeded against and (b) convicted species in terms of catches to the UK fishing industry. of an offence under the provisions of the (i) Badgers According to official statistics for 2009 (the latest year Act 1991, (ii) Deer Act 1991, (iii) Wild Mammals for which final official statistics are available), UK Protection Act 1996 and (iv) Hunting Act 2004 in 2009; vessels landed some 172,300 tonnes of mackerel with a and if she will make a statement. [19876] value of £153 million. This compares to total landings by UK vessels of all species in 2009 of 580,600 tonnes Richard Benyon: The latest figures for the number of with a value of £674 million. persons proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty at all courts for offences under the provisions Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for of the (i) Badgers Act 1991, (ii) Deer Act 1991, (iii) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Wild Mammals Protection Act 1996 and (iv) Hunting discussions she has had at EU level on the mackerel Act 2004 in England and Wales in 2009 are given in the quota claimed by Greenland. [20185] following table. 407W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 408W

Number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts and found CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT guilty at all courts for offences under the Badgers Act 1991, the Deer Act 1991, the Wild Mammals Protection Act 1996 and the Hunting Apprentices Act 2004 in England and Wales in 20091,2 Proceeded Found Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Statute Offence description against guilty Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many apprentices Protection of Offences of cruelty to 44 26 were in post at (a) Arts Council England and (b) Sport Badgers Act 1992 badgers and special England on the latest date for which figures are available; (except Sec. 13) protection for badgers and how many such apprentices recruited in the last and their setts. 12 months (i) were previously apprentices, (ii) had been Protection of Failing to give up a 64 [20272] Badgers Act 1992 dog for destruction or long-term unemployed and (iii) are graduates. Sec. 13 having custody of a dog while disqualified John Penrose: The Department does not collate this Deer Act 1991 Killing or injuring deer 32information. by shooting, trap, Accordingly, I have asked the chief executive of both snares etc. bodies to respond directly to the hon. Member for Wild Mammals Offences under this 85 (Protection) Act 1996 Act North East Cambridgeshire. Hunting Act 2004 Offences under this 90 57 Copies of the responses will be placed in the Libraries Act of both Houses. Total 151 94 Betting 1 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence representations he has received on the maximum stake selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is for a category B2 fixed odds betting terminal; and the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are whether he plans to review that maximum level. [20597] accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that this data has been extracted from large administrative data systems John Penrose: I have received no recent representations generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care about the maximum stake for category B2 fixed odds should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their betting terminals. inevitable limitations are taken into account when the data is used. Source: There are no plans at present to review the maximum Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice level. Betting: Licensing Public Expenditure Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the written Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what occasions ministerial statement of 14 October 2010, Official Report, she attended the Public Expenditure Committee to discuss column 27WS, on public bodies reform, how many staff the 2010 Spending Review. [20147] or full-time equivalents will monitor the licensing of betting shops in the proposed body to be created by Richard Benyon: Information relating to the proceedings merging the National Lottery Commission and the of Cabinet Committees, including when and how often Gambling Commission. [20886] they meet, is generally not disclosed as to do so could harm the frankness and candour of internal discussion. John Penrose: Local licensing authorities, rather than the Gambling Commission, have responsibility for licensing and monitoring betting premises under the Gambling Rural Development Programmes Act 2005. Broadband Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which body will Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, determine applications for funding for rural Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Spending development programmes between 2010 and 2013; and Review 2010, Cm 7942, what estimate he has made of if she will make a statement. [19660] the number of households in (a) Wales, (b) Scotland, (c) England and (d) Northern Ireland who will obtain Mr Paice: The bodies which currently manage delivery access to broadband services as a result of the Government’s of the Rural Development Programme for England proposed expenditure on the broadband network. (RDPE) will continue to do so for the remainder of the [19658] programme period, until the end of 2013, with the exception of the regional development agencies (RDAs), Mr Vaizey: I have been asked to reply in my capacity which will be abolished by March 2012. as a Minister in the Department for Business, Innovation The Government are working to ensure a smooth and Skills. transition to new delivery arrangements for the socio- The Government are committed to ensuring the UK economic elements of RDPE. We expect to be able to has the best superfast broadband network in Europe by provide details shortly. 2015, including the delivery of superfast broadband to 409W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 410W rural and remote areas at the same time as in more of the countywide analysis of capital spend for the populated areas. Households in Wales, Scotland, England entire sector can be found in the Departmental Resource and Northern Ireland will all benefit from the Government’s Accounts (HC 222, 22 July 2010). Data for 2008-09 is support for superfast broadband investment; the exact the latest available. number has yet to be determined. The Department1 itself incurs a small amount of Capital Investment: Greater London and North East capital expenditure on both its own administration (e.g. IT systems, office accommodation) and on a limited David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for number of directly funded programmes such as the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what his Department’s listed places of worship scheme, free swimming (which capital expenditure per head was in (a) London and commenced in 2008-09) and the Department’s contribution (b) the North West in each of the last five years. [19129] to Wolfson Grants, which are summarised in the table. The expenditure per head uses Office of National Statistics John Penrose: Most of the Department’s capital funds mid-year population estimates. are distributed via its arm’s length bodies. A summary

£ 2004-05 2005-06 2006-072 2007-08 2008-09

Total DCMS capital spend 157,158,000 188,581,000 325,240,000 624,203,000 905,446,000 (including that via arm’s length bodies) Of which: DCMS1 capital spend London 5,584,650.00 8,542,789.50 13,794,500.00 6,273,500.00 6,447,175.00 North West 898,500.00 1,347,390.50 235,000.00 200,000.00 1,860,176.00

Spend per head London 0.75 1.14 1.83 0.83 0.85 North West 0.13 0.20 0.03 0.03 0.27 1 Includes the Royal Parks and the Government Art Collection. 2 These figures include early allocations following the successful Olympic bid.

David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for entire sector can be found in the departmental resource Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much and accounts (HC 222, 22 July 2010). Data for 2008-09 are what proportion of his Department’s capital expenditure the latest available. was allocated to (a) London and (b) the North West in The Department1 itself incurs a small amount of each of the last five financial years. [19130] capital expenditure on both its own administration (eg IT systems, office accommodation) and on a limited number of directly funded programmes such as the John Penrose: Most of the Department’s capital funds Listed Places of Worshipscheme, Free Swimming (2008-09) are distributed via its arm’s length bodies. A summary and the Department’s contribution to Wolfson grants, of the countywide analysis of capital spend for the which are summarised in the table.

2004-05 2005-06 2006-072 2007-08 2008-09

Total DCMS capital spend3 (£) 157,158,000 188,581,000 325,240,000 624,203,000 905,446,000 Of which: London (£) 5,584,650 8,542,790 13,794,500 6,273,500 6,447,175

DCMS1 capital spend North West (£) 898,500 1,347,391 235,000 200,000 1,860,176

Proportion of spend London (percentage) 36 46 90 82 41 NorthWest(percentage)672312 1 Includes the Royal Parks and the Government art collection. 2 These figures include early allocations following the successful Olympic bid. 3 Including that via arm’s length bodies

Departmental Contracts statements in assisting with contract decisions by his Department; and what assessment he has made of the Andrew Bingham: To ask the Secretary of State for effects on the prospects for small businesses of winning Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment contracts of such statements. [19018] he has made of the effectiveness of quality management 411W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 412W

John Penrose: When conducting procurement exercises Gambling: Internet the Department will normally make some assessment of quality management statements in the selection of suppliers Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for as suitable bidders. However this assessment would only Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) what estimate form a small part of the overall assessment as, in our he has made of the number of (a) occasional and (b) opinion, quality management statements do not impact frequent or habitual online gamblers in each of the last on the likely success of small and medium enterprises five years; [20133] (SMEs) winning business. On average over the last three (2) what definition of (a) occasional and (b) years approximately 30% of the Departments’ business habitual gambling his Department uses. [20134] has gone to SMEs. John Penrose: This Department and the Gambling Commission do not use the terms frequent or habitual Departmental Public Expenditure to describe the gambling habits of individuals and do not record the information requested on that basis. Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for The British Gambling Prevalence Survey 2007, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what discussions commissioned by the Gambling Commission, was he has had with the BBC Trust on the effect on the undertaken better to understand the nature and scale of BBC of the proposed change to its funding under the gambling in Great Britain. Data on trends of online Comprehensive Spending Review. [20142] gambling can therefore be found in the survey on the Gambling Commission’s website at: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PDF/Britsh Mr Vaizey: The BBC Trust has been fully and %20Gambling%20Prevalence%20Survey%202007%20- productively engaged in discussions with the Secretary %20Sept%202007.pdf of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport on all The third nationally representative survey of participation changes to BBC funding proposed under the licence fee in gambling and the prevalence of problem gambling in settlement. Great Britain will be published in February 2011.

Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Visits Abroad Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) how many new licences have been granted in the last five years for (a) non-remote general betting (standard), (b) non-remote David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for general betting (limited), (c) non-remote betting Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much his intermediary, (d) non-remote pool betting, (e) remote Department spent on overseas visits for senior officials general betting (standard), (f) remote betting (limited), in the last 12 months for which figures are available. (g) remote betting intermediary, (h) remote betting [18416] intermediary (trading rooms) and (i) remote betting pools; [20135] John Penrose: All official travel is undertaken in (2) how many online gambling sites are based in the accordance with the rules set out in the Department’s UK; [20136] travel and subsistence guidance and is consistent with (3) how many online gambling sites are based in (a) the Civil Service Management Code. white-listed countries and (b) countries listed in the Overseas travel and subsistence below ministerial level Gambling Act 2005 which advertise in the UK. [20137] is not recorded by grade. To disaggregate overseas expenditure by grade would incur disproportionate costs John Penrose: The Department does not collate this as this information is not held on our accounting system. information. The Department does publish details of expenses and Accordingly, I have asked the chief executive of the hospitality of senior officials and above on our website: Gambling Commission to write to the hon. Member for Hampshire East. http://www.transparency.culture.gov.uk/category/financial/ Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of which will include details of individual travel costs, both Houses. under “Business Costs”. The table shows total overseas T and S expenditure National Lottery etc. Act 1993 by officials for the financial year 2009-10 irrespective of grade. Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what criteria are Category £ applied to determine the level and nature of payments made by the Secretary of State under Section 31 of the Officials travelling overseas National Lottery etc. Act 1993. [20165] 2009-10 109,764.73 John Penrose: The Secretary of State, with approval Officials accompanying Ministers of the Treasury, makes payments under section 31 of 2009-10 36,953.15 the National Lottery etc. Act 1993 (“the Act”) for defraying certain expenses: Total 2009-10 146,717.88 (i) those incurred or to be incurred by him in exercising his functions; 413W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 414W

(ii) those expenses incurred by the NLC; and CABINET OFFICE (iii) those incurred or to be incurred by the National Debt Commissioners in making investments under section 32 of the Charity Commission: Apprentices 1993 Act. Therefore the criteria that apply for meeting expenses Stephen Barclay: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet under section 31 are whether the expense can be properly Office how many apprentices were in post at the attributable to the exercise of functions as set out in Charities Commission on the latest date for which section 32 of the 1993 Act. figures are available; and how many such apprentices recruited in the last 12 months (a) were previously S4C: Wales apprentices, (b) had been long-term unemployed and (c) are graduates. [20271] Hywel Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport on what date his Mr Hurd: This is a matter for the Charity Commission. Department informed the (a) Welsh Assembly government, I have, therefore, asked the chief executive of the commission (b) Welsh Assembly Minister for Heritage, (c) board to reply. of S4C, (d) Secretary of State for Wales and (e) BBC Letter from Sam Younger CBE: of his decision about the future of S4C. [19898] As the Chief Executive of the Charity Commission, I have been asked to respond to your written Parliamentary Question on how Mr Vaizey [holding answer 27 October 2010]: The many apprentices were in post at the Charity Commission on the Secretary of State or officials informed all the parties latest date for which figures are available; and how many such listed in the days leading up to, or at the time of, the apprentices recruited in the last 12 months (a) were previously apprentices, (b) had been long-term unemployed and (c) are spending review and licence fee settlement announcements. graduates. Television: Licensing The Charity Commission does not employ any apprentices. I hope this is helpful. Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Charity Commission: Finance Olympics, Media and Sport if he will revise television licensing guidelines to allow women’s refuges and shelters Jim Dobbin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet to hold one television licence per establishment. [20276] Office if he will take steps to ensure proposed reductions in his Department’s budget do not adversely Mr Vaizey: The Government have no plans to extend affect the Charity Commission’s ability to (a) regulate, the special licence for hotels and hospitality areas to (b) investigate allegations of fraud, (c) investigate include women’s refuges. There are many different allegations of diverting funds to international terrorist vulnerable groups living in temporary accommodation organisations and (d) enforce existing law in the and it would be difficult to justify providing concessions charitable sector. [19692] for one of these groups but not for any of the others. Mr Hurd: The Charity Commission is an independent Tourism: Cumbria non-ministerial Government Department and as such negotiates its own financial settlement direct with HM John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Treasury. Any reductions in the Cabinet Office budget Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what estimate he therefore have no bearing on the commission’s ability to has made of the number of tourists who visited Cumbria carry out its statutory duties. in (a) 2008 and (b) 2009; and what estimate he has made of the average expenditure per head by tourists Public Expenditure visiting Cumbria in each such year. [19355] Jim Dobbin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet John Penrose: The number of holiday visits to Cumbria Office what assessment he has made of the likely effects and total spend by visitors from outside the United of the outcome of the Comprehensive Spending Kingdom for 2008 and 2009 are as set out in the table: Review on the Charity Commission’s ability to discharge its statutory duties to (a) regulate and (b) Purpose 2008 2009 support the charitable sector. [19691] Visits Holiday 114 85 (Thousand) Mr Hurd: As a non-ministerial department, the Charity Spend Holiday 34 24 Commission negotiates its spending review settlement (£ million) direct with HM Treasury. I have, therefore, asked the Source: chief executive of the commission to reply. VisitBritain Letter from Sam Younger, dated 25 October 2010: The number of holiday visits taken in Cumbria by As the Chief Executive of the Charity Commission, I have United Kingdom residents and total spend for the years been asked to respond to your written Parliamentary Question on 2006 to 2009 are as set out in the table: what assessment has been made of the effect of the outcome of the Comprehensive Spending Review on the Charity Commission’s 2006-09 ability to discharge its statutory duties to (a) regulate and (b) support the charitable sector (19691). Domestic visits (Thousand) 3,671 As an independent non-Ministerial Department, the Charity Domestic spend (£ million) 718 Commission negotiates its Spending Review Settlement directly Source: with HM Treasury. The Charity Commission’s settlement amounts The United Kingdom Tourism Survey to a 33% reduction in its budget in real terms by 2015. 415W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 416W

In order to make these savings, the Commission will need to Sheryll Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for make significant changes to the way in which it engages with Health whether NHS dental care will become part of charities and the public, the services it offers, and the scope and the medical model, as recommended by Lord Darzi. shape of its regulatory activity. This will not be easy but the [19746] Commission is determined to continue to develop as an innovative, confident and flexible modern regulator within the resources Treasury has made available. Mr Simon Burns: Building on Lord Darzi’s work, the The Commission will manage these changes by: Government intend to establish improvement in quality and health care outcomes as the primary purpose of all (i) beginning a comprehensive review of its strategy and operating principles, to agree the key priorities for the Commission’s work national health service-funded care. This includes dentistry. over the next four years and beyond; and Under the proposals set out in the White Paper (ii) continuing to reduce the costs of regulation, for example ‘Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS’, following moving more of its services to charities online, and further consultation and piloting, a new dentistry contract would reducing its back office administration costs. be introduced, with a focus on improving quality, achieving The Commission anticipates that it will have to reduce staff good dental health and increasing access to NHS dentistry, numbers by about 140 full-time posts as a result of this settlement. and an additional focus on the oral health of schoolchildren. Final decisions on the necessary restructuring of the Commission will follow its strategic review, which is intended to conclude in Lord Darzi specifically recommended that the Care April 2011. Quality Commission (CQC) should regulate safety and quality for dental as well as general practitioner (GP) The Commission will begin a public consultation on its strategic review in the next few days, seeking views from a range of practices. The Government support this and the CQC is stakeholders within and beyond the charity sector. A review of in the process of establishing the regulatory arrangements, the Charities Act 2006, which sets the Commission’s statutory first for dental and then for GP practices. objectives, functions and duties, is expected in 2011 and this will provide an opportunity to review the legislative framework. Sheryll Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has for future levels of funding for NHS dentistry (a) nationally and (b) in areas where there is under-provision of NHS dental services; HEALTH and if he will make a statement. [19747]

Care Homes: Fees Mr Simon Burns: Primary care trust (PCT) funding allocations for primary dental care services will be Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) announced in December 2010. The Government’s White which local authorities have reclaimed money from Paper “Equity and excellence: Liberating the NHS”, people for deliberately depriving themselves of assets published on 12 July 2010, proposes that in future the to avoid paying care home fees under the provisions of responsibility for apportioning funding to, and the the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) commissioning of, dental services will be a matter for an Regulations 1992 in each year since 2000-01; [19815] independent and accountable NHS Commissioning Board. (2) how many people have repaid money to their Departmental Computer Software local authority under the provisions of the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) Regulations Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 1992 in each year since 2000-01. [19816] how many applications for the Apple iPhone his Paul Burstow: The Department does not collect Department has commissioned each company to information about how many local authorities have create; and at what cost to the public purse those made use of these provisions, or how many people have applications were created. [19459] had to pay money to a local authority because of the use of these provisions. While the Department issues Mr Simon Burns: The Department, through NHS regulations and guidance on charging, the responsibility Choices, has commissioned three iPhone applications. for assessing how much an individual can afford to pay The first is a package of alcohol tools, including an for residential care rests with the local authority arranging iPhone application. The tools help individuals calculate the care. the alcohol units in drinks, keeps a drinks diary and provides tailored messages about levels of drinking in Dental Services order to support behavioural change. The package was launched on 1 December 2009. The iPhone application cost £10,000. Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health who will have responsibility for commissioning dental The second is the NHS ‘Quit Smoking’ application, it care in (a) care homes and (b) prisons under the provides hints and tips to manage cravings, keeps a proposals in his Department’s White Paper on Equity running tally on how much money quitters have saved and Excellence: Liberating the NHS. [19593] since they stopped smoking, tracks the number of days, hours and minutes since quitting and includes a direct Mr Simon Burns: Under the proposals set out in the link to the stop smoking helpline. The application was White Paper “Equity and Excellence: Liberating the launched on 11 March 2010 and cost £10,000. NHS”, the NHS Commissioning Board would, subject The third is the World Cup/Football Fan Fitness to the outcome of consultation, be responsible for Application. This is an online, Facebook and iPhone commissioning primary care dental services. Further application providing a fitness assessment tool that details will be available at the introduction of the Health aims to encourage adults to think about their health Bill into Parliament, which will follow later this year. and become more physically active. The application was 417W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 418W launched on 9 June 2010 to coincide with the World Mental Health Cup and continues through the current football season. The iPhone Application element cost £9,000. Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he plans to establish a joint Health Services: Greater London commissioning board for mental health. [19039]

Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Burstow: There is no plan to establish a joint Health what guidance his Department issues to commissioning board for commissioning mental health primary care trusts in London, Islington, Haringey, services at a national level. The NHS Commissioning Barnet and Enfield on joint working and Board will be responsible for ensuring that appropriate commissioning of health services; and if he will make a services are commissioned for the whole population statement. [19574] and local arrangements will be for local determination. Our proposals for commissioning give general Mr Simon Burns: The NHS Operating Framework practitioner consortia responsibility for commissioning sets out for national health service commissioners what the majority of national health service services, supported the national priorities are and where they have discretion and held to account by an independent NHS in terms of local commissioning. It advises that joint Commissioning Board, and Health and Wellbeing Boards. working should happen where appropriate; however Mental health services will form an integral part of the this should be determined by the local NHS. range of services commissioned, informed by the output of the local joint strategic needs assessment process led Hospitals: Food by local authorities. Flexibilities in the NHS Act 2006 can support and Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for enhance opportunities for integrated working, particularly Health what assessment he has made of the (a) effects section 75, which supports a range of partnership of the Better Hospital Food Panel on the level of arrangements where they can demonstrate this will lead malnutrition among patients in hospitals and (b) to improvements for services. weekly effects on that level of the disbanding of that committee. [19773] Methadone

Mr Simon Burns: The Better Hospital Food Programme Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for (BHF) programme, overseen by the Better Hospital Health what recent estimate he has made of the Food Panel, was introduced following the publication number of (a) people receiving regular methadone of the NHS Plan in 2000. It took forward a number of prescriptions and (b) prescriptions for methadone initiatives, including: issued by each primary care trust. [20267] the introduction of 24-hour catering services; the introduction of housekeepers in half of all hospitals; Anne Milton: The National Drug Treatment Monitoring the requirement for dieticians to advise on the nutritional System collects information on the number of people quality of hospital food; and receiving substitute prescribing interventions for opioid the introduction of unannounced inspections (Patient Environment dependence in England, but does not distinguish between Action Team). methadone and other drugs, such as buprenorphine, The programme aimed primarily at improving patient which are also recommended by the National Institute experience, through improving the quality and availability for Health and Clinical Excellence. The number of of food. Measures taken included the introduction of adults receiving substitute prescribing was 153,632 in protected mealtimes, greater access to snacks and the 2009-10. launch of an NHS Recipe Book—which includes material The following table gives the number of items of on ‘soft meals’ for the many patients who find chewing methadone prescribed in each primary care trust in and swallowing difficult. Measures such as this would England, in the financial year 2009-10. be expected to have a knock-on effect on nutritional Methadone is used as an opioid analgesic, a treatment status, but this was not formally measured. Details of in opioid dependence and as a cough suppressant. clinical malnutrition are collected via the Hospital Episode Prescriptions for all uses of methadone are included in Statistics process and these are routinely provided on an the figures given. annual basis. Central initiatives can only go so far in supporting Items local improvement. The decision to close the BHF Primary care trust (PCT) name (thousand) programme was taken in April 2006. Funding previously PCT Ashton, Leigh and Wigan 21.2 allocated centrally was passed directly to the national PCT Barking and Dagenham 1.1 health service—to allow it to develop services in the way PCT Barnet 3.1 that is appropriate for local organisations. PCT Barnsley 21.4 Work on implementation of hospital food policy was PCT Bassetlaw 10.3 moved to the National Patient Safety Agency in 2005-06. PCT Bath and North East Somerset 11.9 The resources developed as part of the programme are PCT Bedfordshire 16.4 still available via the Hospital Caterers’ Association PCT Berkshire East 8.1 website. Their contribution to ongoing improvement PCT Berkshire West 17.4 therefore remains, even though the programme has PCT Bexley Care Trust 1.0 closed. 419W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 420W

Items Items Primary care trust (PCT) name (thousand) Primary care trust (PCT) name (thousand)

PCT Birmingham East and North 14.4 PCT Lambeth 11.7 PCT Blackburn with Darwen CTP 15.2 PCT Leeds 57.5 PCT Blackpool 25.7 PCT Leicester City 26.8 PCT Bolton 24.5 PCT Leicestershire County and Rutland 25.2 PCT Bournemouth and Poole Teaching 23.8 PCT Lewisham 7.8 PCT Bradford and Airedale Teaching 53.9 PCT Lincolnshire 14.2 PCT Brent Teaching 5.3 PCT Liverpool 37.6 PCT Brighton and Hove City 15.2 PCT Luton 14.1 PCT Bristol 57.2 PCT Manchester 54.6 PCT Bromley 1.7 PCT Medway 11.9 PCT Buckinghamshire 3.8 PCT Mid Essex 14.3 PCT Bury 9.4 PCT Middlesbrough 34.9 PCT Calderdale 14.1 PCT Milton Keynes 0.4 PCT Cambridgeshire 24.9 PCT Newcastle 32.3 PCT Camden 3.8 PCT Newham 8.5 PCT Central and Eastern Cheshire 12.3 PCT Norfolk 34.9 PCT Central Lancashire 24.3 PCT North East Essex 5.8 PCT City and Hackney Teaching 16.4 PCT North East Lincolnshire Care Trust Plus 19.7 PCT Cornwall and Isles of Scilly 8.8 PCT North Lancashire Teaching 19.5 PCT County Durham 27.6 PCT North Lincolnshire 11.5 PCT Coventry Teaching 35.3 PCT North Somerset 9.9 PCT Croydon 2.0 PCT North Staffordshire 8.2 PCT Cumbria Teaching 27.3 PCT North Tyneside 7.2 PCT Darlington 9.0 PCT North Yorkshire and York 36.7 PCT Derby City 23.9 PCT Northamptonshire Teaching 14.7 PCT Derbyshire County 36.4 PCT Northumberland Care Trust 18.3 PCT Devon 6.3 PCT Nottingham City 9.3 PCT Doncaster 33.4 PCT Nottinghamshire County Teaching 26.9 PCT Dorset 11.4 PCT Oldham 14.3 PCT Dudley 17.3 PCT Oxfordshire 31.2 PCT Ealing 10.2 PCT Peterborough 16.3 PCT East and North Hertfordshire 2.5 PCT Plymouth Teaching 23.0 PCT East Lancashire Teaching 32.0 PCT Portsmouth City Teaching 20.1 PCT East Riding of Yorkshire 10.6 PCT Redbridge 0.7 PCT East Sussex Downs and Weald 13.5 PCT Redcar and Cleveland 6.2 PCT Eastern and Coastal Kent 28.7 PCT Richmond and Twickenham 2.5 PCT Enfield 4.0 PCT Rotherham 29.8 PCT Gateshead 22.9 PCT Salford 15.3 PCT Gloucestershire 7.9 PCT Sandwell 4.3 PCT Great Yarmouth and Waveney 5.3 PCT Sefton 24.1 PCT Greenwich Teaching 3.0 PCT Sheffield 48.1 PCT Halton and St Helens 27.8 PCT Shropshire County 8.1 PCT Hammersmith and Fulham 5.7 PCT Solihull Care Trust 8.3 PCT Hampshire 27.4 PCT Somerset 22.7 PCT Haringey Teaching 2.5 PCT South Birmingham 27.2 PCT Harrow 4.0 PCT South East Essex 7.8 PCT Hartlepool 18.7 PCT South Gloucestershire 6.6 PCT Hastings and Rother 11.2 PCT South Staffordshire 22.7 PCT Havering 0.7 PCT South Tyneside 7.8 PCT Heart of Birmingham 53.6 PCT South West Essex 9.9 PCT Herefordshire 11.9 PCT Southampton City 4.0 PCT Heywood, Middleton and Rochdale 18.8 PCT Southwark 8.2 PCT Hillingdon 2.6 PCT Stockport 12.4 PCT Hounslow 0.8 PCT Stockton-on-Tees Teaching 21.5 PCT Hull Teaching 51.5 PCT Stoke on Trent 27.5 PCT Isle of Wight NHS 6.7 PCT Suffolk 5.6 PCT Islington 11.7 PCT Sunderland Teaching 12.4 PCT Kensington and Chelsea 4.4 PCT Surrey 17.7 PCT Kingston 1.6 PCT Sutton and Merton 0.5 PCT Kirklees 32.8 PCT Swindon 13.7 PCT Knowsley 13.7 PCT Tameside and Glossop 4.5 421W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 422W

The survey also suggests that around 80% of people Items Primary care trust (PCT) name (thousand) with a long-term condition feel supported to be independent and in control of their condition. PCT Telford and Wrekin 2.8 PCT Torbay Care Trust 6.2 Pharmacy PCT Tower Hamlets 17.9 PCT Trafford 9.5 PCT Wakefield District 33.3 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State PCT Walsall Teaching 10.3 for Health what plans he has for the development of PCT Waltham Forest 0.8 community pharmacy in (a) deprived and (b) other PCT Wandsworth Teaching 2.2 areas. [19622] PCT Warrington 8.0 PCT Warwickshire 2.4 Mr Simon Burns: The development of community PCT West Essex 4.9 pharmacy is linked to the requirement for each primary PCT West Hertfordshire 5.6 care trust (PCT) to assess the pharmaceutical needs for PCT West Kent 11.4 its area under section 128A of the NHS Act 2006. The PCT West Sussex 20.5 aim of these needs assessments is to better inform local PCT Western Cheshire 26.2 commissioning of pharmaceutical services and in turn PCT Westminster 14.1 improve health outcomes, contribute to wider developments PCT Wiltshire 13.6 in primary care provision and reduce health inequalities, PCT Wirral 47.7 by facilitating better access to pharmaceutical services PCT Wolverhampton City 6.7 appropriate for population needs. PCTs are required to PCT Worcestershire 14.3 produce their first pharmaceutical needs assessment by Unidentified prescribing 13.4 1 February 2011. England total 2,476.1 Subject to final analysis of the consultation on ‘Liberating the NHS: Local democratic legitimacy in health’, which NHS closed earlier in October, and completion of the forthcoming Health Bill, we expect the responsibility for the development Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health under regulations of local pharmaceutical needs assessments whether he has issued guidance to local authorities on (which are closely aligned to Joint Strategic Needs the implications for them of the proposals in his Assessments) to pass from PCTs when they are abolished Department’s White Paper on Equity and Excellence: to Health and Wellbeing Boards in local authorities. Liberating the NHS. [19592]

Paul Burstow: The Department’s consultation on the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Government’s White Paper “Equity and Excellence: for Health what progress his Department has made in Liberating the NHS” closed on the 5 October, and the developing the National Medicines Concordance consultation on associated proposals for Increasing Scheme. [19623] Democratic Legitimacy in Health, Transparency in Outcomes: A Framework, Commissioning for Patients Mr Simon Burns: Discussions are continuing between and Regulating Healthcare Providers finished on 11 NHS Employers (NHSE) and Pharmaceutical Services October. The Department is currently considering the Negotiating Committee on potential community pharmacy responses to the consultations. No formal guidance has service developments, such as support for people with a been issued to local authorities, however, both Ministers long-term condition newly prescribed a medicine. and officials have been in discussions with representatives of local government about the proposals. Departmental officials have asked NHSE to submit revised proposals, reflecting the coalition Government’s Palliative Care strategy for health and care, including as set out in the recent White Paper. We have made clear that any additional Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State investment in service developments will need to be for Health what progress his Department has made on supported by a robust business case and be informed by the development of a structured support service for the comprehensive spending review. people being treated for long-term conditions. [19624] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Paul Burstow: The national health service long-term for Health whether community pharmacies will be conditions model focuses on supporting people to make represented on the (a) National Commissioning Board decisions about how their care can be managed. It and (b) Public Health Board. [19693] encourages a personalised approach offering one to one case management to those with the most complex needs, personalised care planning to fully involve people in Mr Simon Burns: We intend to introduce legislation decisions about their care and supporting people to self to establish the NHS Commissioning Board later this care. year. The Health Bill will set out further details about Data from the GP Patient Survey suggest that around the membership of the Board and the process for making 80% of people with a long-term condition have had a appointments. care planning discussion and of those around 70% say The forthcoming Public Health White Paper will their care has improved as a result of the discussion. describe the new Public Health Service. 423W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 424W

Thromboembolism Mr Simon Burns: The consultation document “Transparency in Outcomes—a framework for the NHS” Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for put forward a range of possible outcome measures that Health what plans he has for the future of the requirement could be presented in the first NHS Outcomes Framework. on acute services providers to report to their lead This included a measure on venous thromboembolism commissioner on (a) local audits of the percentage of as an improvement area in domain 5 of the framework patients risk-assessed for venous thromboembolism who (Treating and caring for people in a safe environment receive the appropriate prophylaxis and (b) root cause and protecting them from avoidable harm). analysis of all confirmed cases of hospital-acquired The consultation closed on 11 October. We are in the pulmonary embolism and deep vein thrombosis. [19865] process of analysing the responses and it is expected that the first NHS Outcomes Framework, alongside the Mr Simon Burns: As part of the National Venous Government’s response to the consultation, will be Thromboembolism (VTE) Prevention Programme from published in December 2010. 1 April 2010, the NHS Standard Contract for acute services requires providers to: Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 6 September 2010, Report to their lead commissioner on local audits of the Official Report, column 275W, on thromboembolism, percentage of patients risk-assessed for VTE who receive the appropriate prophylaxis being based on national guidance. (Where what proportion of providers has met the Commissioning appropriate prophylaxis is used but is not based on national for Quality and Innovation scheme’s goal on the reduction guidance, the reasons for this clinical decision will need to be fully of venous thromboembolism. [19887] documented); and undertake and report to their lead commissioner on root cause Mr Simon Burns: As stated in the previous answer of analysis of all confirmed cases of hospital acquired pulmonary 6 September 2010, assessing and rewarding achievement embolism and deep vein thrombosis (including those arising from of both locally and nationally defined Commissioning a current stay or new events arising where there is a history of for Quality and Innovation (CQUIN) goals is the admission to hospital within the last three months), in accordance responsibility of local commissioners as part of their with clause 29 and schedule 5 part 2. The National Patient Safety contractual relationship with providers, and the Department Agency are developing a two page VTE tailored guide on root cause analysis for the national health service expected to be does not collect specific data on the achievement of available before the end of the year. CQUIN goals. Failure to report in accordance with the provisions in For the national CQUIN goal on venous the contract is a breach of performance that can lead to thromboembolism (VTE), the period over which a withholding by the commissioners of up to 1% of commissioners will assess achievement during 2010-11 monthly sums payable under the contract value until is a matter for local negotiation between commissioners the breach is rectified. Where there is a persistent breach and providers, although published guidance states that the withholding can be retained. achievement of 90% must be over at least a full quarter to earn the related CQUIN payment. We understand There are no current plans to remove this from acute that many providers are aiming to achieve the goal care providers’ contracts for 2011-12. during the last quarter of 2010-11. A national data collection on VTE risk assessment started in June 2010. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for The publication date of the first full quarter’s data is Health what plans he has for the future of the national 3 December 2010. venous thromboembolism prevention strategy. [19867]

Mr Simon Burns: Reducing death and disability from venous thromboembolism (VTE) is a clinical priority TREASURY for the national health service. The NHS leadership team have introduced a range of measures during 2010-11 to support the existing national VTE prevention Annuities programme. The focus of the national programme is aimed at Jesse Norman: To ask the Chancellor of the ensuring that: Exchequer what methodology was used to calculate the 55% recovery rate, as proposed in his Department’s every adult patient admitted to an acute NHS service receives a consultation on reforming the pension tax framework documented VTE risk assessment; and ending the effective requirement to purchase an the risk assessment is followed up with appropriate prophylaxis annuity at the age of 75 years. [16884] based on national guidance; outcomes for patients are identified and recorded accurately; Mr Hoban: The Government announced at the June and Budget that they will end the effective requirement to the success of this national approach to VTE prevention is purchase an annuity by age 75 from April 2011, and evaluated. published a consultation document in July.The consultation document set out that reforms should not incur Exchequer Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for cost, and that relief previously given on contributions Health if he will bring forward proposals to include should be recovered for any funds remaining after death, reduced (a) venous thromboembolism and (b) as well as taking into account that no charge to inheritance appropriate thromboprophylaxis as an indicator for tax will apply. Given these principles, the Government’s safe treatment in the first NHS Outcomes Framework; preliminary view was that an appropriate recovery charge and if he will make a statement. [19868] for most death benefits would be around 55%. 425W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 426W

The final policy has not been decided and further Mr Hoban: The day to day operations of the Financial detail on the tax reform proposals and the recovery Services Authority are independent from Government charge will be published by the Government in the control and influence. autumn after consideration of the consultation responses. The Financial Services Authority (FSA) does not regulate retail foreign currency exchange services. So Margot James: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the FSA did not regulate in any way the foreign currency if he will take steps to encourage more pensioners to exchange business of Crown Currency Exchange. search for competitive offers when converting their The Government will look at this case to see what pension savings into an annuity. [17500] lessons can be learned for the future.

Mr Hoban [holding answer 18 October 2010]: The Members: Correspondence Government believe that it is important for people to save for retirement and recognise the importance of the Mr Baron: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer annuities market in providing an income in retirement. when his Department plans to respond to the letters of The Government support the Open Market Option 9 August and 29 September 2010 from the hon. which enables individuals to shop around for the best Member for Basildon and Billericay on his constituent rate, and continue to consider ways to make this more Mr J. Lowe. [20001] effective. Mr Gauke: I have replied to the hon. Member. Complementing this, the Government will continue to work with interested groups to improve the quality of Mr Baron: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer ‘pre-retirement’ advice. (1) when his Department plans to respond to the letters The Consumer Financial Education Body will launch of 17 August and 29 September 2010 from the hon. the Annual Financial Healthcheck next spring, which Member for Basildon and Billericay on his constituent will form a key component of the National Financial Ms L. Keeble; [20005] Advice Service. (2) when his Department plans to respond to the Together these will help people to access the advice letters of 13 August and 29 September 2010 from the they require to make important decisions about their hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay on his retirement savings. constituent Mrs A. Black. [20002] Mr Hoban: I have replied to my hon. Friend. Endowment Mortgages: Scotland Personal Savings Katy Clark: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make an estimate of the number of people Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Chancellor of the who have experienced a shortfall in their endowment Exchequer if he will take steps to encourage individuals policies sold by solicitors in Scotland since the to allocate a higher proportion of disposable income to implementation of the provisions of the Financial Services savings; and if he will make a statement. [17924] and Markets Act 2000. [14896] Mr Hoban: To ensure a sustainable and balanced Mr Hoban: The information requested is not held economic recovery, the Government need to encourage centrally. people to save and invest. Recent levels of saving have been too low with the household saving ratio dipping into the negative in 2008 for the first time since the Financial Markets 1950s. The Government are therefore committed to creating conditions for higher savings. John Mann: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Government want a saving system based on what estimate his Department made of the value of the freedom, fairness and responsibility, as well as ensuring over-the-counter derivative market in each of the last lasting affordability and measureable effectiveness. These five years. [17855] principles will guide the Government’s aims of rewarding saving, supporting pensions, and helping vulnerable Mr Hoban: The Bank for International Settlement households to smooth their expenditure. provides information regarding the value of over-the- A number of measures have been announced which counter (OTC) derivative markets in its semiannual will take the first steps in meeting these aims, such as OTC derivatives statistics report. The latest detailed the Annual Financial Healthcheck, the indexation of report can be found on the following website: annual subscription limits for Individual Saving Accounts http://www.bis.org/statistics/derstats.htm (ISAs), meaning that savers will be able to pay an extra £480 into their ISAs in 2011-12, and an end to the Financial Services Authority effective requirement to annuitise pension savings at 75. Public Expenditure Mr Raab: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will investigate the conduct of the Financial Services Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the Authority in monitoring the activities of Crown Exchequer what estimate he has made of the change in Currency Exchange under the provisions of regulation public spending per capita as a result of the £6.2 billion 81 of the Payment Services Regulations 2009; and if he cost reductions announced on 24 May in each region. will make a statement. [19952] [735] 427W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 428W

Danny Alexander: Regional spending data for 2010-11 Public Expenditure: Children are not yet available. However, the savings announced on 24 May 2010 had the effect of reducing total managed Natascha Engel: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer expenditure (TME) per capita in the UK as a whole by what plans the Public Expenditure Committee has to around £84 this year. take into account the UK’s obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child in its deliberations Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the on public spending. [19585] Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 11 October 2010, (a) how many, (b) for what period of time and (c) at Danny Alexander: The Public Expenditure Committee what cost to his Department staff were re-deployed takes account of all the United Kingdom’s international temporarily to work on the Spending Challenge in July treaty obligations, including the United Nations convention and August 2010. [18429] on the rights of the child (UNCRC). The education, health and well-being of children are vitally important Danny Alexander: As set out in my answer of 11 October for our society. The Government are committed to the the number of staff deployed on and contributing to UNCRC and believe it is vital that children and young the spending challenge in July and August 2010 varied people have a strong, independent advocate to champion depending on the particular requirements of the spending their interests and views and to promote their rights. challenge at any one time. For those staff who were Public Expenditure: Public Consultation involved in the spending challenge while also taking forward other roles I am afraid I can provide no further Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the information as no record was made of the specific Exchequer (1) how many submissions his Department amount of time they devoted to the spending challenge has received to its Spending Challenge initiative; and alongside their other work. how many such submissions addressed (a) the defence In terms of staff being temporarily redeployed from budget and (b) the maintenance or replacement of the other roles in the Treasury to devote the majority of Trident nuclear weapons system; [18678] their time to the spending challenge this comprised two (2) how many submissions his Department’s Spending Treasury Range Es (Grade 7) and one Treasury Range Challenge initiative received (a) in total, (b) on defence D (HEO). Based on the estimated average costs to the spending and (c) on the maintenance or replacement of Department of employing these staff the staff costs the Trident nuclear weapon system; [19579] incurred by the Treasury over July and August would stand at £27,666, all covered from within existing budgets. Danny Alexander: Almost 64,000 ideas were submitted As set out alongside the spending review implementing to the public sector element of the Spending Challenge, ideas generated through the spending challenge will with over 45,000 further ideas being submitted through enable Government to save millions of pounds ever the general public element. year, far outweighing any costs imposed by the exercise. Following the sifting and amalgamation of similar ideas, there were 308 unique policy proposals relating to Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer different aspects of the defence budget, including Trident, whether he plans to publish an assessment of the effects from the public sector website. The number of submissions on (a) growth, (b) employment and (c) average household relating to each policy proposal was not recorded during incomes of the proposals of the comprehensive spending the Spending Challenge process. review in (i) Scotland, (ii) Wales, (iii) Northern Ireland On 20 October, we published the full list of unique and (iv) each region of England. [19780] policy proposals on the Spending Challenge website and will publish all the original ideas received through Danny Alexander: The Government have no plans to the Spending Challenge website that passed our moderation publish this data on a regional basis. However, Annex B procedures shortly. of the 2010 Spending Review report (Cm 7942) contains a distributional impact analysis of the spending review. Public Sector: Pensions

Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the Tony Baldry: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer if he will publish the modelling undertaken how many people employed in the public sector were by his Department on the likely social effects of the members of non-contributory pension schemes in the proposals in the comprehensive spending review. [19840] most recent period for which figures are available. [19788] Danny Alexander: The spending review, published on Danny Alexander: Public service employees who are 20 October, set out spending plans for Departments to members of the main public service pension schemes 2014-15. In implementing their plans, Departments will pay contributions towards their pensions, with the exception continue to give due consideration to the social effects of members of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme— of their undertakings, as per their obligations set out in although the value of armed forces pensions is taken the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, the Race Relations into account by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body Act 1976 and the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. when they make their recommendations on military The Treasury has published an overview of the impact pay. The number of members of this scheme as at of Spending Review 2010 on equalities at: 31 March 2010 can be found in the Armed Forces http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/spend_sr2010_equalities.htm Pension Scheme Resource Accounts 2009-10 under HM Treasury has no existing plan to publish a document Membership Statistics, which is available at: further to this; individual Departments will continue to http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1011/hc02/ consider these issues as identified above. 0210/0210.pdf 429W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 430W

Public Sector: Swansea Children: Maintenance

Geraint Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Exchequer if he will conduct an impact assessment to and Pensions what his most recent estimate is of the establish the likely effects of implementation of the number of non-resident parents who are liable to pay Comprehensive Spending Review outcomes on the child maintenance to a parent with care who also receive number of public sector jobs in Swansea. [19583] child maintenance from that parent (a) nationally and (b) in Walsall South constituency. [18436] Danny Alexander: These data are not available and the Government have no plans to publish data of this kind. However, Annex B of the 2010 Spending Review Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement report (Cm 7942) contains a distributional impact analysis Commission is responsible for the child maintenance of the spending review. system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the information Tax Rates and Bands: Carlisle requested and I have seen the response. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: John Stevenson: To ask the Chancellor of the In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Exchequer how many higher rate taxpayers there are in Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary Carlisle constituency. [18095] of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner. Mr Gauke: The number of individual income taxpayers You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what by constituency can be found in table 3.15 “Income and his most recent estimate is of the number of non-resident parents Tax by Parliamentary Constituency” at: who are liable to pay child maintenance to a parent with care who http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_distribution/menu-by- also receive child support payments from that parent (a) nationally year.htm#315 and (b) in Walsall South constituency. [18436] Estimates are based on the Survey of Personal Incomes, As at June 2010, there are 7,200 non-resident parents nationally of which 2007-08 is currently the latest available. who have a liability to pay child maintenance to a parent with care at the same time that they are receiving maintenance from Information on the number of higher rate taxpayers that person for another case. Those receiving maintenance include at constituency level is not readily available. Sample cases where a maintenance direct arrangement is in place. Of sizes at constituency level are small and estimates can those, 15 live in Walsall South constituency. demonstrate a large variability from year to year, therefore Some of these cases will include arrears only cases where the any inference from the information in table 3.15 should child or children have moved household but arrears of maintenance take into account the confidence intervals in table 3.15a are still being collected. Figures include cases administered on the “Income and Tax by Parliamentary Constituency, CS2 and CSCS computer systems only and exclude cases administered Confidence Intervals”. off system.

WORK AND PENSIONS Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Businesses and Pensions what his most recent estimate is of the number of parents with care who both pay and receive Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for Work child maintenance (a) nationally and (b) in Walsall and Pensions whether his Department provides South constituency. [18437] support for small business owners dealing with customers who fail to pay for services that have been provided. [19006] Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child maintenance Mr Prisk: I have been asked to reply. system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner Business tells us that the number one priority is to write to the hon. Member with the information certainty of payment and that is why we support the requested and I have seen the response. Institute of Credit Management’s (ICM) Prompt Payment Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Code, which requires signatories to pay according to agreed terms. Experian analysis suggests that signatories In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary to the code represent around two-thirds of total UK of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance supply chain value. We are also helping suppliers help Commissioner. themselves through our Managing Cash Flow guides, which are supported by all the leading business You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what his most recent estimate is of the number of parents with care representative bodies. who both pay and receive child maintenance (a) nationally and It is open for any business to recover debts owed to it (b) in Walsall South constituency. [18437] via the courts. The Bulk Claims Centre has been set up The number of parents with care nationally who are receiving by HM Courts Service specifically to deal with child maintenance payments, who are also a non-resident parent straightforward high volume debt collection work. The paying child maintenance in the quarter to June 2010 was 6,530. Money Claims on Line (MCoL) system has been designed Of those, 15 live in Walsall South constituency. for creditors who do not issue high volumes of claims. These figures include cases where maintenance direct arrangements Both systems remove the administrative and procedural are in place between the non-resident parent and the parent with work and provide users with a faster, guaranteed service. care. The figures are for cases administered on the CS2 and CSCS There are also discounts on the standard county court computer system only and therefore exclude cases administered fees. off-system. 431W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 432W

Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Work discussions he has had with the Chief Executive of the and Pensions what his most recent estimate is of the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission on a number of non-resident (a) mothers and (b) fathers (i) target for the collection of child maintenance payment nationally and (ii) in Walsall South constituency who arrears. [19818] have deductions for other relevant children taken into account before their income is tested for child Maria Miller: The Government are considering the maintenance payments to qualifying children. [18511] role that the child maintenance system can play in its overall commitment to support shared parenting and Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement promote parental responsibility. In this context, and Commission is responsible for the child maintenance that of the spending review, the Department is in discussion system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner with the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission to write to the hon. Member with the information about a target for the collection of arrears. requested and I have seen the response. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Disability Living Allowance: Care Homes In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance and Pensions whether the removal of the mobility Commissioner. component of the disability living allowance for people You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what in residential care will be included in the welfare reform his most recent estimate is of the number of non-resident (a) trials in Aberdeenshire and Burnley. [19515] mothers and (b) fathers (i) nationally and (ii) in Walsall South constituency who have deductions for other relevant children Maria Miller: There are no plans to increase the taken into account before their income; is tested for child maintenance payments to qualifying children. [18511] scope of the trial regarding migration of cases from incapacity benefit to employment and support allowance Nationally there are 124,300 male non-resident parents and 18,400 female non-resident parents who have child maintenance in Aberdeenshire and Burnley to include the removal of cases which take into account that the non-resident parent has a the mobility component of disability living allowance child support case for another child/children with a different or people in care homes. parent with care, or that the non-resident parent has a relevant child/children living in their household. Of those, 185 male non- Employment and Support Allowance: Scotland resident parents and 30 female non-resident parents live in Walsall South constituency. Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for These figures include non-resident parents with live and assessed Work and Pensions what proportion of applications for cases where either a positive liability to pay maintenance exists or a nil liability decision has been made. Management information employment and support allowance made in Scotland only records relevant other children on cases administered on the in 2009 and 2010 were rejected on the basis of the work CS2 computer system. Therefore, cases administered on the CSCS capability assessment; and in respect of what computer system or off system are excluded from these figures. proportion of such applications that decision was (a) reversed and (b) upheld on appeal. [19661] Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the oral answer to the hon. Chris Grayling: The following table provides the latest Member for Shipley of 14 June 2010, Official Report, available data on new ESA claims received in Scotland column 586, on child maintenance, what recent between October 2008 and February 2010:

ESA outcomes at initial assessment for new claims received in Scotland between October 2008 and February 2010 Percentage Month ESA claim Work related activity Claim closed before Assessment still in started Support group group Fit for work assessment complete progress

2008 October 5 8 47 39 1 November 5 8 46 40 1 December 5 9 44 41 1

2009 January 5 10 47 38 1 February 5 10 46 38 1 March 5 9 48 37 1 April51047371 May 6 9 46 37 1 June61045391 July 7 9 45 37 2 August 7 10 45 36 2 September 7 10 45 35 2 October 8 10 45 35 3 November 7 10 44 36 3 December 7 11 42 37 4 433W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 434W

ESA outcomes at initial assessment for new claims received in Scotland between October 2008 and February 2010 Percentage Month ESA claim Work related activity Claim closed before Assessment still in started Support group group Fit for work assessment complete progress

2010 January 7 11 41 36 6 February 7 10 40 35 8

Total 6 10 45 37 2

The following table gives the latest available data on where an appeal has been heard by July 2010. These are the outcome of appeals for all new ESA claims received the latest dates for which we have available information. in Scotland between October 2008 and August 2009,

Appeals against a fit for work decision in Scotland for ESA claims starting between October 2008 and August 2009 where an appeal has been heard by July 2010, rounded to nearest 10 Percentage fit Percentage forworkwithan Decision in decision in Month ESA Appeals heard appeal heard (to favour of DWP decision favour of Percentage DWP Claim Started Fit for work (to date) date) appellant upheld appellant decision upheld

2008 October 470 230 49 90 140 46 54 November 2,260 1,000 44 380 620 36 64 December 1,940 890 46 350 540 50 50

2009 January 2,570 1,190 46 490 700 37 63 February 2,590 1,230 47 530 710 34 66 March 2,940 1,370 47 600 770 42 58 April 2,710 1,240 46 550 690 52 48 May 2,790 1,230 44 500 730 42 58 June 2,870 1,200 42 520 680 34 66 July 2,730 970 36 400 580 32 68 August 2,720 820 30 330 500 35 65

Total 26,590 11,370 43 4,730 6,640 40 60

These tables are comparable to and consistent with There are also regional programmes which specifically those found in our latest publication of official statistics address local skills and employment needs. Skills North on the Work Capability Assessment, released on 26 East is the regional employment and skills partnership October 2010. This publication can be found on the which invests in the development of skills to enhance internet at: the chances of those unemployed to gain employment. http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/index.php? The Government aim to have the new Work programme page=esa_wca in place nationally by the summer of 2011. This will Employment Schemes: North East help young people move into sustained employment rather then temporary jobs, and everyone, including young people, will have access to a fully integrated and Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for coherent system of back to work support for the first Work and Pensions what steps he plans to take to time. We are planning further support for young people, (a) (b) provide training and employment opportunities including intensive work experience, more apprenticeships for people in the North East under the age of 25 years and more further education places. who have been unemployed for more than six months. [19256] Health and Safety Executive: Industrial Health and Chris Grayling: The Department for Business Innovation Safety and Skills (BIS) has lead responsibility for the provision Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of training and skills in England. BIS published a and Pensions how many complaints of breaches of health ″ consultative version of its strategy paper Skills for and safety legislation the Health and Safety Executive ″ Sustainable Growth in July 2010 which outlined their received in respect of its own organisation in each of vision for an effective skills strategy. The final paper will the last five years; and how many such complaints were be available in November and its results will factor into confirmed on investigation in each such year. [19405] BIS’s decisions to develop their skills strategy for the future. BIS Ministers see providing skills support to Chris Grayling: HSE’s records indicate that, over the Jobcentre Plus customers, including young people who last five years, there has been a single breach of health are unemployed, as a priority. and safety legislation with respect to HSE’s own 435W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 436W organisation. This occurred at HSE’s Health and Safety Housing Benefit Laboratories (HSL) in Buxton in March 2008. As a result of HSL staff reporting structural and ventilation Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for failings found in a laboratory, HSE’s own specialist Work and Pensions how much revenue his Department staff served a Crown Improvement Notice on HSL expects to accrue consequent on the removal of requiring a thorough examination of local exhaust housing benefit excess in each of the next 10 years; and ventilation equipment as required by the Control of what estimate his Department has made of the cost to Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 2005. the public purse of the administration of that change in HSL met the requirements of the notice by the compliance each relevant year. [18541] date and the notice was discharged. Steve Webb: The estimated saving to the Exchequer associated with this measure in terms of reduced annually Health and Safety: Licensed Premises managed expenditure in the next four financial years is:

Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work £ million and Pensions if he will review the adequacy of the Health and Safety Executive’s enforcement regime for 2011-12 160 the purposes of ensuring that health and safety 2012-13 310 requirements are implemented by owners of licensed 2013-14 310 premises. [20050] 2014-15 310

Chris Grayling: HSE shares the enforcement of health The administrative impacts of this measure are expected and safety law with local authorities. Licensed premises to be negligible. The excess provision will be removed are predominantly in the entertainment sector for which for existing customers when their claim is reviewed by local authorities are the enforcing authority under the the local authority which will usually be at the anniversary health and safety (enforcing authority) regulations. point of the claim. HSE has responsibility for operational policy in local authority enforced premises. It fulfils this role by identifying Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and issues of concern and developing standards, advice and Pensions from what local authorities he has received guidance to local authority inspectors. It also provides representations on local housing allowance and operational support when needed to their investigatory housing benefits since June 2010; and if he will place in and enforcement work. the Library a copy of each item of correspondence with each such local authority. [20048]

Housing and Council Tax Benefit: Fraud Steve Webb: A search of correspondence addressed to Department for Work and Pensions Ministers has shown that the following local authorities have made Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Work representations following the June 2010 Budget and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number announcements where the subject is recorded as local of convictions for (a) housing benefit and (b) council housing allowance or housing benefit. tax benefit fraud as a result of local authority fraud investigations in each of the last five years. [18088] Barrow Borough Council Brent Council Steve Webb: The estimated number of convictions for Brighton and Hove City Council housing benefit and council tax benefit fraud as a result Gwynedd Council of local authority fraud investigations from April 2005 Hounslow Council to March 2008 are as follows: London Borough of Newham Housing benefit and council tax convictions South Worcestershire—Malvern Hills District, Worcester City Number and Wychavon District—(shared services) 2005-06 6,234 Westminster City Council 2006-07 5,860 Copies of the correspondence will be placed in the 2007-08 6,493 Library. Other similar letters and representations may have These figures represent the total number of convictions been received, but recorded under different subjects, or for housing benefit and council tax benefit fraud. not recorded on the system. Information is not available on the number of convictions for housing benefit alone and for council tax benefit We have also consulted formally with the local authority alone. associations on the reform proposals. The number of convictions for housing benefit and council tax benefit fraud from April 2008 to date is Housing Benefit: Children currently unavailable. From 1 April 2008, the Department moved to monitoring performance on fraud and error Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work activity through a new quarterly return, the Housing and Pensions (1) what assessment he has made of the Benefit Recoveries and Fraud (HBRF). Work is currently effects on local demand for school places of the under way to quality assure this data and the statistics proposed reductions in entitlements to housing benefit; will be published in due course. and if he will make a statement; [20173] 437W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 438W

(2) what estimate he has made of the number of overall volumes of appeals. The quantity and likely children who will be required to move to another school outcomes of these appeals have been factored into our as a result of their family moving home following a estimates. reduction in housing benefit in each of the next four years. [20174] Independent Living 2006 Fund

Steve Webb: We have discussed the possible impacts Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of the housing benefit changes with the Department for and Pensions what plans he has for the future of the Education and the devolved Administrations. It is not independent living fund; and if he will make a however possible to estimate how many households statement. [19307] with children will move, or where they will move to. Maria Miller: We are considering options for the Housing Benefit: Poverty long-term future of the independent living fund in consultation with the Department of Health and the trustees of the independent living fund. In order to Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work safeguard existing users’ awards the independent living and Pensions what steps he is taking to ensure that the fund is not accepting new applications for the remainder planned reductions in entitlements to housing benefit of the year. In reaching any decision on the future of do not result in an increase in the number of children the independent living fund we will work with the living in poverty in each of the next four years; and if trustees of the fund, disabled peoples’ organisations he will make a statement. [20172] and other key stakeholders to ensure that the needs of existing users of the independent living fund are taken Steve Webb: Our initial estimates suggest that the into account. housing benefit policies announced in the June 2010 Budget will not have a significant impact on the overall Members: Correspondence number of children in poverty. We are currently working to refine this estimate. The welfare reforms announced Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in the June 2010 Budget and the 2010 spending review and Pensions when his Department plans to respond to will enable a greater proportion of expenditure to be the letters of 23 August and 30 September 2010 from spent on services such as increasing support for the the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay on his poorest in the early years and investing in Sure Start constituent Mr M. Allison. [20003] health visitors to ensure that the poorest families are not trapped in a cycle of dependency. Chris Grayling: The Minister for Welfare Reform replied to the hon. Member’s letters on 18 October 2010 (our reference: POS(4)10330/224). I have arranged for a Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing copy to be sent to him.

Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Mortgages: Government Assistance Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the likely effects on the ability of housing associations Karl Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to raise and service finance on the capital markets to and Pensions for what reasons support for mortgage fund the building of housing in each of the next five interest payments was reduced before agreement on years of (a) the proposed weekly cap on housing averaging out rates was reached. [18639] benefit and (b) the uprating in housing benefit, with Steve Webb: The standard interest rate used to calculate reference to the consumer price index rather than support for mortgage interest was fixed at 6.08% by the average rents. [18542] last Administration. That rate resulted in the vast majority of people getting more than their eligible mortgage Steve Webb: The weekly caps and the uprating in line interest liability, which was unfair to taxpayers. with the consumer price index announced in the June budget apply to housing benefit claims from private On 22 June 2010, the Chancellor announced in the sector tenants assessed under the local housing allowance emergency Budget that the standard interest rate would arrangements. Housing Association tenants are not assessed be based on the Bank of England’s published monthly using the local housing allowance and are not therefore average mortgage interest rate. Legislation to introduce subject to either of these measures. this change came into effect from 1 October 2010 and the standard interest rate is currently 3.63%. Incapacity Benefits We believe this is fairer to claimants compared to the previous Administration’s plans to revert to 2.08% from January 2011. Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government will continue to explore with mortgage Work and Pensions whether his Department’s estimates lenders the scope for them to “freeze” benefit claimants’ of the number of recipients of benefits awarded on a mortgage accounts and apply a standard interest rate condition of incapacity or limited capability who will in for a fixed period. future be found to be fit for work include assumptions relating to the number of successful appeals against Personal Income work capability assessments which will be made. [19911] Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Chris Grayling: As we begin to reassess the work and Pensions what the median gross household income capability of incapacity benefit claimants, we anticipate was in the most recent year for which figures are that the volume of cases processed will result in higher available. [20264] 439W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 440W

Chris Grayling: The latest available figures show the claimant will be given full details how to undertake median equivalised gross income in 2008-09 is £515 per their appeals and the timescales within which they may week. This statistic is based on households below average do so. income (HBAI) data sourced from the 2008-09 Family The penalty is intended to deter negligent behaviour Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household and increase personal responsibility for keeping claims income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation correct. factors for household size and composition, as an income A copy of the full strategy can be found at: measure as a proxy for standard of living. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/tackling-fraud-and-error.pdf uncertainty. Gross incomes have been presented. The Social Security Benefits: Fraud HBAI publication looks at net disposable incomes before and after housing costs. Figures have been rounded to Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the nearest pound sterling. Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the loss to the Exchequer consequent on benefit fraud in Public Expenditure each (a) local authority and (b) region in each year since 1997. [17444] Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he made of the Chris Grayling: The information requested is not monetary value of savings credit payments in 2014-15 available. (a) taking account and (b) not taking into account of DWP fraud and error estimates, published in the the implementation of the proposed changes to that Fraud and Error in the Benefit System series, provide scheme announced in the (i) June 2010 Budget and (ii) fraud and error estimates at a national level. The estimates comprehensive spending review. [19872] are derived from the examination of a sample of benefit payments. The sample sizes are too small to produce Steve Webb: Any assessment of the monetary value valid estimates at sub-national level. of savings credit payments as a result of the announcements made in the June 2010 Budget and the comprehensive The total amount lost to fraud in the benefit system spending review will feed into the 2011 up-rating. An in 2009-10 is estimated at around £1 billion. Of this, up-rating statement will be made in the House later this around £260 million is estimated overpaid due to fraud year. in housing benefit. The latest estimates of fraud and error in the benefits Social Security Benefits system can be found at: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/ Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for fem_oct08_sep09.pdf Work and Pensions whether he has made an estimate of On 18 October 2010 the Government published a the number of residents of each local authority area in radical new strategy for reducing fraud and error in the Scotland who are likely to be affected by the proposed welfare system. The strategy sets out a range of measures time limit on the payment of employment and support to reduce fraud and error by over 25% by March 2015. allowance. [20009] The strategy can be found at: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/tackling-fraud-and-error.pdf Chris Grayling: As part of the spending review announcement, we have set out our intention to introduce Mr Nuttall: To ask the Secretary of State for Work a time limit of one year for those claiming contributory and Pensions how many people have been prosecuted employment and support allowance and who are placed for benefit fraud in (a) Bury North constituency and in the work related activity group. All other groups (b) the North West in the last three years; what the claiming employment and support allowance are not cost to his Department has been of benefit fraud in affected by this measure. each such area in each such year; and what steps his Estimates of the numbers affected by time limiting Department is taking to reduce the level of benefit are not available by local authority area. fraud. [19251] Social Security Benefits: Fines Chris Grayling: The number of people prosecuted for benefit fraud in Bury North and the North West in each Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for of the last three years is not available. The cost to the Work and Pensions what mechanisms will be put in Department of benefit fraud in Bury North is not place for benefit claimants who wish to dispute fines available, but the value of fraudulent overpayments can levied for not informing the relevant agency of a be identified for part of the period for the North West. change of circumstances. [19838] The following information is available: Total value of identified fraudulent overpayments in the North West Chris Grayling: On 18 October, the Department published £ its new strategy to tackle fraud and error in the benefit and tax credits system. The strategy announced the 2008-09 28,384,000 introduction of a new £50 civil penalty for those individuals 2009-10 24,766,000 who fail to take reasonable care of their claim, or who 2010-111 12,296,000 knowingly let a change in circumstance run on while 1 To end September 2010. incurring an overpayment. Notes: 1. Figures for 2007-08 are not available due to roll-out of the Fraud There will be a clear appeals process in place so that Referral and Intelligence Management System (FRAIMS). claimants can disagree against the overpayment decision 2. Data in table extracted from FRAIMS. and also against the decision to instigate a penalty. The 3. Figures are rounded to the nearest thousand. 441W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 442W

On 18 October 2010 the Government published a Economic Growth: Finance radical new strategy for reducing fraud and error in the welfare system. The strategy sets out a range of measures Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for to reduce fraud and error by over 25% by March 2015. International Development how much funding his The strategy can be found at: Department plans to allocate to economic growth and http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/tackling-fraud-and-error.pdf wealth creation programmes in each year to 2014-15. [19826] Winter Fuel Payments: British Nationals Abroad Mr O’Brien: The UK Government are reviewing all bilateral and multilateral programmes to ensure resources Conor Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Work are focused where they will achieve most impact. The and Pensions (1) what the cost to the public purse was outcome of the reviews will determine allocations across of payment of the winter fuel allowance to pensioners the Department for International Development, including living in Spain in the latest year for which figures are allocations to economic growth and wealth creation, for available; [19026] the four years of the spending review period. Wealth (2) what his most recent estimate is of the average creation in developing countries is critical to poverty annual cost to the public purse of payment of the alleviation and is one of six key priorities for the UK winter fuel allowance to pensioners who are not Government, as set out in the Structural Reform Plan. domiciled in the UK. [19027] Haiti: Earthquakes Steve Webb: In 2009-10, the most recent date for which information is available, expenditure on winter Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for fuel payments paid to people living in Spain is estimated International Development what information he holds to be £7 million. on the monetary value of EU aid delivered to Haiti since the earthquake in that country; on what programmes Expenditure on winter fuel payments paid to people his Department’s contribution to that aid has been living in the European economic area and Switzerland spent; what timetable has been set for the delivery of in 2009-10, the most recent date for which information that aid; what proportion of that aid has been delivered is available, was £15 million. This represents less than on time on the latest date for which figures are available; 1% of the total expenditure on winter fuel payments. and if he will make a statement. [20006] Note: The distribution of the different levels of payment in Spain is Mr O’Brien: Since the earthquake in Haiti, the EU’s assumed to be the same as that for the European economic area, immediate humanitarian response, managed by the as country-level information about distribution of payment amounts European Commission, has amounted to ¤30 million is not available. (£27 million) up to the end of September. A further ¤90 Source: million (£80 million) is planned to be spent by August DWP Statistical and Accounting Data 2011 on various interventions including shelter, water sanitation and hygiene, health, nutrition and food assistance. In the longer term, ¤460 million (£409 million) has been earmarked for reconstruction assistance. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT The UK’s share of this EU assistance is estimated at some 14%. It is not earmarked for any particular part of Developing Countries: EC Aid these EU programmes. Overseas Aid Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether his Department Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for holds figures on the monetary value (a) in total and International Development how much his Department (b) per head of population of the recipient country plans to allocate to (a) the Stabilisation Aid Fund and disbursed to each country from the (i) EU aid budget (b) the Conflict Prevention Pool in (i) 2010-11, (ii) and (ii) European Development Fund in the latest 2011-12, (iii) 2012-13, (iv) 2013-14 and (v) 2014-15. period for which figures are available. [20007] [20280]

Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Stabilisation Aid Fund and Development (DFID) does not collate these data. The Conflict Prevention Pool were merged into a single latest figures can be found in the European Commission’s Conflict Pool in financial year 2009-10. annual report on the European Union’s development The Conflict Pool does not draw its resources from and external assistance policies and their implementation departmental budgets; it is part of a separate HM in 2009. Total EU Official Development Assistance Treasury settlement on conflict resources which is managed (ODA) by country and per capita in each country in jointly by the Department for International Development, 2009 is available in table 6.11 on page 180. I will arrange the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry for a copy of the report to be deposited in the Library of Defence. The settlement provides resources to cover of the House. A breakdown of EU ODA provided the United Kingdom’s legally binding commitments on through the EU Budget and European Development assessed peacekeeping costs (the Peacekeeping Budget) Fund (EDF) is not available. The majority of EU ODA as well as discretionary expenditure on conflict prevention, to African, Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) countries is stabilisation and peacekeeping (the Conflict Pool). As provided through EDF. announced in the spending review, the Conflict Pool 443W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 444W will increase over the next spending review period to Sharing of resources within the household will mean £309 million in 2014-15. A statement on detailed allocations that although a benefit is received by a particular person for Conflict Pool activity next financial year will be in the household, the full impact does not fall on that made in the coming weeks. person because the resource is shared with their partner This financial year, the Conflict Pool is £178.5 million. and/or children. Taking account of this kind of income DFID has allocated an additional £1.5 million from its pooling is very difficult, as data and research in this departmental budget to supplement the Conflict Pool’s area is sparse. Households share their resources in programme in Sri Lanka and £10 million for stabilisation different ways—some will have no income pooling; activities in Afghanistan. some will share some income while others will share all their income. To analyse the impact of Budget decisions by gender, assumptions must be made about the extent to which resources are shared. WOMEN AND EQUALITIES The House of Commons Library has chosen to assume no income pooling in their research. While I accept that Equality Act 2010 this assumption was chosen without political bias, it is an extreme assumption, and is unlikely to represent the Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Minister for Women and way most households share resources. The results of the Equalities when the Government intend to commence analysis depend heavily on the assumption that there is the public sector duty on socio-economic inequalities no household sharing, and should be interpreted contained in the Equality Act 2010. [19896] accordingly recognising that a different choice of income pooling assumption would give different results. The Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 27 October 2010]: analysis only includes selected measures, such as the The Government are committed to tackling poverty abolition of the Health in Pregnancy grant, and excludes and tearing down the barriers to equal opportunity. others, for example, the council tax freeze. Therefore the They are pushing ahead with policies that will make a coverage can only be partial. real difference to people’s life chances—the pupil premium, In producing the analysis in annex A of the June 2010 welfare reform, raising the income tax threshold, and Budget document, the Treasury based its assumptions improving work incentives. about family structures on the Expenditure and Food No decision has been taken on the commencement of Survey, and factors supplied by the Office for National the socio-economic inequalities duty. Statistics. The Budget analysis was produced at a household level, and therefore assumptions around resource sharing Equality: Court Orders would have no direct impact on the analysis presented.

Stephen Barclay: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities what recent discussions she has had with the DEFENCE Secretary of State for Justice on equal treatment for fathers and mothers in the enforcement of family court Armed Forces: Germany orders. [19941] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Lynne Featherstone: The Government have had Defence what estimate he has made of the costs of discussions with a number of fathers’ groups about reinstatement of facilities in Germany when UK armed supporting involvement of both parents in their children’s forces personnel stationed there have left. [20260] upbringing following relationship breakdown. The Family Justice Review, led by Sir David Norgrove Nick Harvey: As announced by the Prime Minister is examining how to promote contact for non-resident on 19 October 2010, Official Report, column 797, as parents and grandparents where this is in the best part of the strategic defence and security review, the interests of the child. Government have decided to accelerate the re-basing of 20,000 military personnel in Germany with aim to Females: Low Incomes returning half of those personnel to the UK by 2015 and the remainder by 2020. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for Women Detailed work is now under way to consider how this and Equalities pursuant to the contribution to the will be implemented, and reinstatement of facilities will Minister for Equalities of 6 September 2010, Official form an important part of this planning. At this stage it Report, column 152, in the adjournment debate on is not possible to provide an accurate estimate of likely public expenditure reduction (women), what the evidential reinstatement costs. basis is that (a) the Library’s analysis of the Budget’s impact on women was (i) biased and (ii) not robust and Armed Forces: Conditions of Employment (b) the Library research makes an extreme assumption that no income is shared; and what assumptions about Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for (A) family structures and (B) how resources are shared Defence what plans he has for the new employment within a household the Government made before the model for the armed forces; and if he will make a Budget. [15154] statement. [19653]

Lynne Featherstone: Any analysis of tax and welfare Peter Luff: The new employment model is currently changes by gender must make assumptions about how in the concept development phase, and we are examining resources are shared within the household. how we might adjust terms and conditions of service in 445W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 446W order to balance the expectations of service personnel Armoured Fighting Vehicles with the demands placed upon them. The aim is to promote greater stability in service life while continuing Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for to compensate for mobility. Defence (1) what his most recent estimate is of the cost of the Future Rapid Effects System programme; Armed Forces: Germany [19436] (2) what the in-service date is for the Future Rapid Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Effects System utility vehicle. [19437] Defence (1) how many children of service personnel are resident in Germany; [19538] Peter Luff: The Future Rapid Effect System programme (2) what recent discussions he has had with the has been recast from a single programme into a set of Secretary of State for Education on schooling of constituent programmes: the specialist vehicle programme, children of armed forces personnel in Germany. [19539] the utility vehicle programme, and the manoeuvre support vehicle programme. Dr Fox: The latest figures available show that there Expenditure to 30 September 2010 for the specialist are approximately 12,000 dependent children on the vehicle and utility vehicle projects totals £249 million. Ministry of Defence (MOD) estate in Germany. There has been nil expenditure to date on the manoeuvre Ministry of Defence officials engage with Department support vehicle project. for Education and Ofsted officials on a regular basis The total estimated costs and the in-service dates about the education of service children, including those cannot be confirmed until their respective main investment in Germany. For example, officials are currently closely decisions are made. The timing of these decisions is involved with the consultation on and development of subject to review following the publication of the Strategic ideas about a pupil premium for service children. Defence and Security Review. Furthermore, the MOD director of the Children and Young People’s Trust, who is also chief executive of Army: Reorganisation Service Children’s Education, the body responsible for military schools overseas, meets regularly with the Department for Education Advocate for Service Children. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the likely Armed Forces: Housing effects of implementation of his proposals for the reorganisation of the Army structure on force generation in the Army. [19546] Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the (a) value for Nick Harvey: The reorganisation of the Army structure money and (b) transparency of arrangements for is designed to optimise force generation in the future to letting subcontracts made by his Department’s prime meet proposed Defence Planning Assumptions. The contractors; and if he will make a statement. [18045] transformation over the next ten years to Future Force 2020 will provide five self-supporting Multi-Role Brigades Peter Luff: It is the Ministry of Defence (MOD)’s and one specialist brigade, as opposed to the current policy to encourage competition at subcontract level. mix of armoured, mechanised and light brigades which Prime contractors are required to do this and advertise at present requires elements to be drawn from more opportunities in the MOD Defence Contracts Bulletin, than one formation to generate the forces required for where appropriate. The MOD and industry have agreed current operations. In the period to 2015 no changes principles that should be observed in the flow down of will be made which would have any adverse impact on standard terms and conditions of contract at lower tiers our ability to generate forces for current operations in in the supply chain. Afghanistan. As part of our Green Paper on Defence Industry and Technology, to be published before the end of the year, Civil Service: Redundancy we will be consulting on the role of small and medium sized businesses in defence acquisition. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what proportion of the 25,000 reduction in Armed Forces: Personnel civil service personnel he expects to be achieved through redundancy. [19544] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans his Department has to use Peter Luff: It is too early to say. Discussions are manning control points to terminate the contracts of under way with the trade unions to determine how the service personnel. [20258] reductions may be achieved through various means including natural wastage and voluntary early release, Peter Luff: Since the days of National Service the thereby minimising the need for compulsory redundancies. Manning Control Point process has been used by the Army to address the difficulties created by individuals who have reached the limit of their employability or Defence Estates promotion prospects and are therefore restricting promotion opportunities for more junior soldiers. The process is Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for not currently in use, and its future application is under Defence what steps he plans to take to reduce review. expenditure by rationalising defence estates. [19642] 447W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 448W

Peter Luff: No decisions have yet been made on Peter Luff: We do not have an estimate of the total changes to the management of Defence estates. value of spectrum holdings assigned to Defence; this The Defence estate is kept under continual review to can only be determined realistically by reference to the ensure that it is of the right size and quality to meet market. Based on the Spectrum Audit conducted by operational needs. However, estate rationalisation arising Professor Martin Cave in 2004-05, the Ministry of from the Strategic Defence and Security Review could Defence (MOD) is paying a fee of some £64 million to lead to a further reduction in the size of the estate and Ofcom in financial year 2010-11 for the use of its to lower running costs. spectrum holdings. The value of individual elements of MOD’s spectrum holding will be determined when we Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for bring some of our spectrum to market in the 2012-13 Defence what changes he plans to make to the financial year. The precise details are yet to be established management and delivery of infrastructure services but the aim will be to maximise revenue to the Exchequer. across defence estates. [19643] Defence: Expenditure Peter Luff: No decisions have yet been made on changes to the management and delivery of infrastructure Mr McCann: To ask the Secretary of State for services across Defence estates. Defence pursuant to the statement of 19 October 2010, Official Report, columns 797-801 on the Strategic Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator Defence and Security Review, whether the figure to be notified to NATO in respect of the proportion of gross domestic product spent on defence was calculated on Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the basis of his Department’s core budget; and what Defence if he will bring forward proposals to transfer account this calculation took of direct funding of the functions of the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator defence expenditure from the Exchequer. [19319] to an independent external regulatory body under the control of the proposed new Office of Nuclear Mr Gerald Howarth: The figures reported to NATO Regulation. [19709] are for defence expenditure, detailed as per NATO instructions. This definition includes the Ministry of Peter Luff: There are no proposals to transfer the Defence’s (MOD) core budget along with the cost of functions of the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator operations, pensions and Armed Forces Compensation (DNSR) to any other body. Scheme payments made to ex-military personnel, and DNSR will continue to work closely with the statutory non-budget costs. regulators, including the proposed Office of Nuclear The MOD has estimated spending on defence as a Regulation, to provide complete regulation of the defence percentage of GDP will continue to meet the NATO nuclear programmes including those aspects exempted target of 2% over the spending review period. from statutory oversight. Defence: ICT Defence: Broadcasting Reception Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what expenditure he expects his Department Defence (1) how he plans to proceed with the sale of to incur on the UK Defence Cyber Operations Group the defence stake in the telecommunications spectrum; in the first 12 months of its operation. [19566] [19635] (2) what assessment he has made of the effects of the Nick Harvey: £650 million has been agreed to fund sale of the defence stake in the telecommunications the National Cyber Programme across Government. spectrum on operations undertaken by UK armed Detailed work on the Defence Cyber operations Group forces. [19636] is ongoing, including determining the level of resource allocation. Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence is currently evaluating its spectrum holdings between 70 MHz and Departmental Apprentices 15 GHz to prepare for an initial release of spectrum in late 2012. This evaluation work will conclude in spring Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 and a planned timetable of spectrum releases will Defence how many apprentices were in post at the Met be published shortly thereafter. MOD is considering Office on the latest date for which figures are available; several options for its approach to the market to release and how many such apprentices recruited in the last spectrum, including engaging a third party to trade 12 months (a) were previously apprentices, (b) had spectrum on its behalf. been long-term unemployed and (c) are graduates. It is likely that there will need to be some changes to [20268] the use of spectrum, but we do not anticipate that there will be any adverse impact to operations in the UK or Peter Luff: There are no apprentices in post at the elsewhere. Met Office and none have been recruited in the last 12 months. The Met Office primarily meets its needs for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for trainees through graduate recruitment campaigns. The Defence what his most recent estimate is of the Met Office also runs an innovative IT trainee scheme, monetary value of his Department’s share of the training individuals from A-level standard—seven have national telecommunications spectrum. [19732] just completed this scheme and are now employed. 449W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 450W

Departmental Official Hospitality (3) in which armed forces (a) ranks and (b) units he expects headcounts to be reduced to achieve a 7,000 Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for reduction in Army personnel; [19547] Defence what the five most expensive hospitality events (4) in which areas of the Royal Air Force he expects hosted by his Department and its agencies have been there to be (a) recruitment and (b) redundancies in since his appointment; and what the (a) cost and (b) the next five years. [19651] purpose was of each of those events. [19277] Peter Luff: The Strategic Defence and Security Review Peter Luff: Comparative cost information on hospitality announced that by 2015, the overall size of the Royal events across the Ministry of Defence is not held centrally Navy would be reduced by around 5,000 to around and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. 30,000, the Army by 7,000 to around 95,000 and the We offer hospitality to pursue the UK’s security Royal Air Force by 5,000 to around 33,000. Further policy interests, to give the public a better understanding detailed work is required on how this reduction will be of our armed forces and to enhance professional contacts implemented. Some reduction will be managed through within the UK and with other countries. Expenditure natural turnover. However, we do expect some redundancies. must be modest and necessary—under current spending The process of identifying specific personnel requirements restrictions any new expenditure is prohibited except in will take some time. exceptional circumstances and must be approved by a We will continue to recruit in many areas of Defence senior military officer or senior civil servant. to ensure we maintain critical skills and a coherent mix Yearly expenditure on entertainment and hospitality of trained and experienced personnel for the future. is published in the MOD’s Annual Accounts, copies of which are placed in the Library of the House. Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre

European Fighter Aircraft Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how he plans to proceed with the sale of Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre. [19634] Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many Typhoon jets he intends to order in Peter Luff: The Government intend to sell the the next five years. [19551] Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre through an arrangement that continues to provide the Ministry of Defence with Peter Luff: No decision has been made on any further the levels of service support it requires while delivering orders. best value for money. The project implementation plan is being developed. I will write to the hon. Member Hercules Aircraft when this is complete.

Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Nimrod Aircraft Defence what savings he expects to accrue to his Department as a result of bringing forward the Mr McCann: To ask the Secretary of State for withdrawal of the C130J Hercules. [19545] Defence what role the Nimrod platform has in protecting continuous at-sea deterrence. [19240] Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) made estimates of the cost savings accrued from measures in Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the strategic defence and security review for the purposes Defence what capabilities will fulfil the role that would of formulating policy. Some of these have been published otherwise have been undertaken by Nimrod MRA4 to help inform the public debate. Release of further aircraft. [20262] detail may prejudice the MOD’s negotiating position with its commercial suppliers. Furthermore, final savings Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for figures will depend on detailed implementation, which Defence (1) what estimate he has made of the likely will generally be subject to full consultation with all effect on the number of jobs of the cancellation of the relevant parties, including the trades unions and the Nimrod MRA4 programme; [20150] devolved Administrations, as well as the results of mandatory assessments on the impact that the measures (2) what estimate he has made of the cost to his will have on sustainability, equality and diversity, and Department of the cancellation of the Nimrod MRA4 health and safety. The MOD is therefore not prepared programme; [20151] to release more detailed figures at this time. (3) what penalty payments his Department is liable to pay BAE Systems in respect of the cancellation of Manpower the Nimrod MRA4 programme. [20152] Peter Luff: The decision not to bring the Nimrod Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for MRA4 into service announced by the Prime Minister Defence (1) in which areas of the Royal Navy he on 19 October was difficult, owing to the nature of the expects there to be (a) recruitment and (b) military tasks to which it was designed to contribute, redundancies in the next five years; [19645] the amount of public money that had been spent on it, (2) in which areas of the British Army he expects and the impact of such a decision on the people who there to be (a) recruitment and (b) redundancies in have dedicated their careers to delivering this capability, the next five years; [19646] or who depend on it for their livelihoods. 451W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 452W

However, the severe financial pressures faced by the There has been engagement with the reserve forces nation and the urgent need to bring the defence programme and cadet associations by Ministers and senior officials into balance meant that we could not retain all our throughout the strategic defence and security review existing programmes, and that we had to prioritise and these will continue as the scope and terms of those capabilities that we could continue to maintain. reference of the review are finalised. This project has suffered from repeated delays and cost overruns. But it is the aircraft’s future support costs that Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for contributed to the decision not to bring it into service, Defence what penalty payments his Department is despite its advanced state. liable to pay in respect of the cancellation of contracts announced in the Strategic Defence and Security The Nimrod MRA4’s role as an Intelligence, Surveillance, Review. [20148] Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance platform was to contribute to a wide range of military tasks. These Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) will be included the protection of the nuclear deterrent and engaged in an extensive programme of commercial deployed Maritime Task Groups, surveillance and tracking negotiations with its suppliers in the coming months, as of surface shipping, and a number of other operations part of the strategic defence and security review (SDSR) relevant to the security of the UK and its overseas implementation process. This will focus on the areas territories. The aircraft also fulfilled a secondary role in where savings can be delivered and contract changes are support of Long Range Search and Rescue. required as a result of SDSR measures. Since the withdrawal of the Nimrod MR2 in March Any liabilities as a result of contract cancellation or this year, the Ministry of Defence has sought to mitigate amendment will only emerge from this process. the gap in capability through the use of other military assets, including Type 23 Frigates, Merlin Anti Submarine Territorial Army Warfare helicopters and Hercules C-130 aircraft, and by relying, where appropriate, on assistance from allies Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for and partners. Although it was originally assumed that Defence what the terms of reference are of the working such measures would only be required for a limited group on the future of the Territorial Army. [19655] period of time, we are now developing a longer-term Peter Luff: Discussions on the terms of reference of plan to mitigate the impact of cancellation on our the study into the future role and structure of the continuing military tasks and capabilities. In view of Reserves (including Maritime Reserve, Territorial Army the sensitive and classified nature of some of these and Royal Auxiliary Air Force) are currently taking military tasks, and the implications for the protection of place. Once agreed we will place a copy in the Library of our armed forces, including the nuclear deterrent, it is the House. not possible for us to comment on these measures in detail. Unmanned Air Vehicles Following last week’s announcement we have also Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for begun discussing with BAE Systems arrangements to Defence (1) how many unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) terminate the contracts for production and support of he expects to order in the Spending Review period; and the aircraft. Until these negotiations are complete it by what date he expects such vehicles to be in service; would be inappropriate for me to comment on the likely [20259] costs or the impact on personnel employed on the Nimrod MRA4 programme. (2) how many new unmanned aerial vehicles he expects to order; and what timescale he has set for their Reserve Forces entry into service. [20418]

Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence has in recent Defence what timetable he has set for the review of the weeks placed an order for a further 100 Mini Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) Desert Hawk III Air Vehicles to reserve forces; and if he will make a statement. [20023] sustain the capability which has been supporting our Peter Luff: Discussions on the terms of reference and troops in theatre since 2007. These are expected to be timetable for the study into the future role and structure delivered in 2011-12. Additionally, we plan to order and of the reserves (including the Maritime Reserve, Territorial receive up to five additional Reaper remotely piloted Army and Royal Auxiliary Air Force) are currently aircraft during the Spending Review period. Consideration taking place. Once agreed we will place a copy of the of our requirement for future persistent armed surface terms of reference in the Library of the House. surveillance is in its early stages. A remotely piloted system is one of the potential options to deliver this Strategic Defence and Security Review capability.

Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions he has had on the role of the BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Reserve Forces and Cadets Association within the Basic Skills: Finance armed services as part of the Strategic Defence and Security Review. [17202] Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what funding his Dr Fox: I refer my hon. Friend to the announcement Department allocates for basic literacy and numeracy made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 19 assessments undertaken in relation to the Basic Skills October 2010, Official Report, column 799, about the for Life programme; and if he will make a statement. review of our reserve forces. [3461] 453W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 454W

Mr Hayes: The funding for assessment in literacy and Mr Prisk: The Department funds the National Council numeracy provision is included within the overall funding for Graduate Entrepreneurship (NCGE) to provide provided for each course; therefore there is no separate programmes in the higher education system that encourage allocated amount. Learners are placed on the appropriate entrepreneurs. “Make it Happen” and “Flying Start” course depending on an initial assessment of their are the two programmes that promote entrepreneurship needs, and then they have the opportunity to work to students and graduates. The total grant in aid allocated towards the achievement of a qualification. for the NCGE was £1.824 million in 2009/10 and is £900,000 in 2010/11 (subject to finalisation of the Business: Bexleyheath organisation’s business plan and ministerial agreement). NCGE is continuing to support young people who Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for joined “Make It Happen” last year. Of these, 1,875 are Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps he women entrepreneurs (46% of total numbers), and 117 of has taken to increase access to finance for businesses in those women entrepreneurs are based in the West Midlands Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency. [19966] (6% of the total). NCGE ran two of its three-day “Flying Start” Mr Prisk: The coalition Government have articulated programmes specifically for female students during the their ambition to ensure the flow of credit to viable last financial year. 60 women attended these sessions. SMEs. Our consultation on business finance issues, The Department does not hold figures aggregating “Financing a private sector recovery” closed on the the proportion of funding for “Make It Happen” and 20 September, and received many responses from a wide “Flying Start” that was spent on women only. range of firms, business representative bodies, individuals and investors. We are currently considering the Government’s response which will be given shortly. Business: Unfair Practices There are various measures already in place to support access to finance for SMEs. I aim to continue to support Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for and improve the diversity of sources and access to Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward finance for SMEs that meet their needs. Such sources of legislative proposals to prevent those previously convicted finance available to SMEs including those in your for offences relating to trading practices in a particular constituency of Bexleyheath and Crayford were announced sector owning more than a minority shareholding in a by the Chancellor in the budget: new business in the same sector. [20220] A £200 million extension to the Enterprise Finance Guarantee (EFG), to benefit around 2,000 extra small businesses. In total, Mr Davey: There are no plans to bring forward the EFG will now support up to £700 million in bank lending to legislation in this area. viable small businesses. As at the 20 October, 10 businesses in the constituency of Bexleyheath and Crayford have been offered and Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings have drawn down loans totalling £0.72 million. A new Enterprise Capital Fund to support small businesses with high growth potential—combining both Government and Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for private sector funding. Business, Innovation and Skills how many officials in Confirmation of a Growth Capital Fund, to provide funding his Department have been (a) subject to disciplinary of between £2 million and £10 million for small and medium-sized action, (b) removed from post, (c) transferred to businesses (SMEs) with strong growth potential. another position and (d) dismissed for matters relating to their (i) disciplinary record and (ii) performance in Business: Equality each year since his Department’s inception. [18775]

Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Davey: Six officials in BIS have been subject to Innovation and Skills how many meetings officials of disciplinary action in the calendar year 2010 to date. In his Department have had with the Government Equalities 2009, the year of the Department’s inception, 11 officials Office on the effect of equalities legislation on small were subject to disciplinary action. Disciplinary action may include warnings, downgrading or dismissal. businesses since his appointment. [18899] We are unable to provide the further breakdown Mr Prisk: Officials in BIS have met with officials requested as totals of five or less in each category are from the Government Equalities Office on numerous suppressed on the grounds of confidentiality under occasions since my appointment to discuss a wide range section 40 of the Data Protection Act. Also responsibility of policy issues, including equalities legislation, and any for commencing capability and minor disciplinary such discussions that consider the impact of policy procedures rests with line management across the proposals on business include the effects on small businesses. Department. No records are collated centrally regarding how many such procedures are initiated in the Department Business: Females and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme Business, Innovation and Skills what programmes his Department has in the higher education system to Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for encourage women entrepreneurs; and how much his Business, Innovation and Skills how many businesses Department spent on each such programme (a) he expects to receive assistance from the Enterprise nationally and (b) in the West Midlands in the latest Finance Guarantee Scheme as a result of its recent year for which figures are available. [18443] extension. [20867] 455W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 456W

Mr Prisk: An extra 2,000 businesses could benefit The 2007/08 study covered a mixture of students to from the extra £200 million announced in the emergency whom the pre and post-2006/07 student support Budget in June 2010 for the Enterprise Finance Guarantee, arrangements applied, thus 61% of the full-time student- bringing the total able to be assisted during 2010-11 to sample were subject to variable fees of up to £3,225, around 7,000. and 39% were under the previous arrangements. Differing maintenance loan levels apply for students according to whether they live in London or elsewhere, European Regional Development Fund however these also take account of whether the individual lives independently, or at home with their parents. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Expenditure of full-time undergraduate students, by whether living in London or Innovation and Skills how much and what proportion elsewhere of the latest round of the European Regional Development £ Fund allocations to the UK for the period from 2007 to Living in Living elsewhere 2013 remains unspent. [20163] London

Living costs1 Mean 6,663 6,469 Mr Prisk: For the period 2007-13 the UK has been Median 5,358 5,279 allocated ¤5,410 million (approximately £4,630 million) 2 of European regional development funds under the Standard error 424 242 Convergence and Competitiveness operational programmes. To date, some £740 million has been paid to projects, Housing costs1 Mean 2,446 2,457 with some £3,890 million (84%) remaining to be spent. Median 2,208 2,161 However, well over 50% of the ERDF allocation of Standard error2 183 134 £4,630 million has already been contracted to projects. Payments to projects are on target and can be made up Participation Mean 3,271 3,132 until end 2015. costs3 Median 3,330 3,235

2 Groceries Supply Code of Practice Standard error 145 49

Spending on Mean 115 158 Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for children1 Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he Median — — Department has taken to introduce a body to monitor 2 and enforce the Groceries Supply Code of Practice. Standard error 42 23 [20412] Estimated total Mean 12,495 12,216 Mr Davey: The coalition statement commits the expenditure1 Government to introduce the Groceries Code Adjudicator Median 11,395 10,770 (GCA). The Government response of 3 August set out Standard error2 615 280 how we would take this forward: http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/business-law/docs/ Unweighted — 228 1,565 competition-matters/10-1011-groceries-supply-code-practice- count government-response.pdf 1 Figures adjusted for joint financial responsibility where relevant. We now have approval to publish a draft Bill in the 2 The standard error measures the extent to which we expect the sample mean can differ from the population mean. Plus or minus two standard errors first session of this Parliament. This will be undertaken usually provides a 95% confidence limit: that is, we can be 95% confident that as soon as parliamentary time allows. the ‘true’ value lies within that range. 3 Participation costs include spending on tuition fees, travel to/from university, expenditure on books and equipment, and study related child care. Base: All English-domiciled students. Higher Education: Costs Source: NatCen/IES SIES 2007/08. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he Imports: Health Foods has made of the cost of studying as an (a) undergraduate and (b) postgraduate at a university in (i) London and (ii) outside London; and if he will Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for make a statement. [19765] Business, Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he has made of the monetary value of imports of food Mr Willetts: The ‘Student Income and Expenditure supplements and other natural health products from Survey 2007/08’, published on 21 April 2009, provided the Channel Islands in the most recent period for which estimates of the expenditure of higher education students figures are available. [20831] attending higher education institutions and further education colleges in England and Wales. Mr Davey: This information is not available. For the The following table shows the average and median purposes of the Overseas Trade Statistics, “UK” is expenditure of full-time undergraduate students according defined as Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of to whether they were studying in London or outside Man, the Channel Islands and the UK part of the London, and includes a breakdown of living, housing, Continental Shelf, so the Overseas Trade Statistics do participation and child care expenses. not cover trade between these places. 457W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 458W

Local Enterprise Partnerships Members: Correspondence

Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Secretary of State for Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what guidance his Business, Innovation and Skills when he expects to Department has issued to local authorities on the reply to the letter dated 1 June 2010 from the right hon. contiguity of proposed local enterprise partnership Member for Manchester, Gorton, with regard to areas with county boundaries. [20030] Eleanor Massey, transferred from the Department for Work and Pensions. [11967]

Mr Prisk: No specific guidance has been issued to Mr Davey: I apologise for the delay in replying. I will local authorities on the contiguity of proposed local reply to the right hon. Member as soon as possible. enterprise partnership areas with county boundaries. In the joint letter that my right hon. Friends the Secretary Public Expenditure of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and Communities and Local Government sent to local Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities and businesses on 29 June they expressed Business, Innovation and Skills whether his Department concerns that some local and regional boundaries do has identified the 500MHz of public sector spectrum not reflect functional economic areas. The letter encouraged below 5GHz which is to be released over the next 10 partnerships to better reflect the natural economic years as indicated in the Comprehensive Spending Review. geography of the areas they serve and hence to cover [20704] real functional economic and travel to work areas. Mr Vaizey: The Government are keen that there is Manufacturing Industry release of public sector spectrum in order to meet demands from the private sector. Work to identify suitable spectrum for release is now under way, but 180 MHz Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for spectrum has already been identified from within the Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps his Ministry of Defence (MOD) holdings. Department has taken to support manufacturing industry in the (a) short term and (b) long term. Regional Development Agencies: Assets [18291] Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave Business, Innovation and Skills what (a) land assets on 21 October 2010, Official Report, column 869W. and (b) buildings each regional development agency has in freehold ownership. [15810] Mature Students Mr Prisk: I will place a list of the eight RDAs’ (excluding London) freehold land and property assets Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for in the Libraries of the House. Business, Innovation and Skills how many students who were 30 years of age or older at the time of Students: Fees and Charges admission started university undergraduate courses in each of the last 10 years. [19761] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many students Mr Willetts: The latest available information for the have paid all or part of their tuition fees from their own Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) is shown funds in each of the last five years; and if he will make in the following table. Figures for the 2009/10 academic a statement. [19763] year will be available in January 2011. Mr Willetts: The latest available information from Undergraduate entrants1 aged 30 and over: UK Higher Education Institutions2 the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) is shown academic years 1999/2000 to 2008/09 in the following table. Figures for the 2009/10 academic Entrants aged 30 and over year will be available in January 2011. Academic year Full-time Part-time English domiciled enrolments1 by major source of tuition fees2: UK Higher 1999/2000 31,335 114,665 Education Institutions academic year 2004/05 to 2008/09 2000/01 32,190 113,555 No award or financial Mix of student and SLC 2001/02 35,735 128,905 backing 2002/03 37,390 133,905 Academic year Full-time Part-time Full-time Part-time 2003/04 39,315 136,405 2004/05 38,610 133,475 2004/05 441,900 362,435 75,180 20,855 2005/06 39,195 132,430 2005/06 446,025 363,290 70,600 24,440 2006/07 36,570 125,545 2006/07 343,695 355,465 41,430 30,790 2007/08 36,500 123,025 2007/08 309,015 336,770 60,330 35,575 2008/09 37,810 120,645 2008/09 271,605 340,345 40,020 40,290 1 Covers entrants of all domiciles to both full-time and part-time courses. 1 Covers enrolments to all levels and modes of study. 2 Excludes the Open University due to inconsistencies in their coding of 2 Excludes those with unknown/missing tuition fee information. In 2008/09 entrants across the time series. 16,005 students had missing information. Note: Note: Figures are based on a snapshot as at 1 December and have been rounded to the Figures are based on a HESA standard registration population and have been nearest five. rounded to the nearest five. Source: Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) 459W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 460W

Students: Finance It is our intention to remove the bus lane, initially for a trail period from December this year until the Olympic Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for games and thereafter on a permanent basis, subject to Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate his the outcome of the trial and consultation. Department has made of the effect on the number of In opening the M4 bus lane to all traffic, we are students entering (a) teacher training, (b) medical looking to ensure that the road capacity which all degree courses and (c) the police force of the taxpayers have contributed to paying for is efficiently implementation of the Browne Review proposals; and used and accessible to all. if he will make a statement. [19767] Motorways and Major Trunk Roads Programme Mr Willetts: We have endorsed the broad thrust of Lord Browne’s proposals because they would place the funding of higher education on a sustainable basis; 18. Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State would protect students from low income backgrounds for Transport what plans the Highways Agency has for and low earning graduates; and because those students the future of its Motorways and Major Trunk Roads who benefit most in financial terms from their higher programme. [19929] education would contribute most to the costs. Lord Browne also recommended that students need clearer Mr Philip Hammond: I refer the hon. Lady to my oral information about the employment outcomes, including statement “Investment in Highways and Local Transport future earnings, of particular courses. Taken together, Schemes” made in the House on 26 October 2010, we would expect these recommendations to support Official Report, columns 177-79 and the supporting appropriate levels of recruitment to graduate entry details entitled “Investment in Highways Transport professions like teaching and medicine. We are considering Schemes” placed in the Library of the House on the our detailed response to Lord Browne’s recommendations same day. and will respond shortly. Mersey Gateway Bridge Scheme

TRANSPORT 19. Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Rail Fare Increases Transport when he plans to make a decision on the statutory orders sought by Halton Borough Council in respect of the Mersey Gateway Bridge scheme. [19931] 15. Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he has had discussions with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on Norman Baker: We will not be able to issue decisions the effects of rail fare increases on the mobility of immediately on the statutory orders, as there is still people seeking work. [19926] some work to be done to ensure that our decisions on these complex orders are thorough and robust. We also Mrs Villiers: The Secretary of State for Transport has need to ensure, in liaison with the Department for not discussed this specific subject with the Secretary of Communities and Local Government, that decisions State for Work and Pensions. However, the rail fare issue at the same time on all 10 orders and planning increases were part of the overall CSR package which consents relating to the Mersey Gateway Project. We received general Cabinet scrutiny and approval. will, however, make every effort to conclude the statutory processes as soon as is reasonably possible. Human Trafficking: Port Security Airports: Public Lavatories 16. Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will have discussions with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on an increase in Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for security provision at ports for the purpose of Transport if he will bring forward proposals to require preventing human trafficking. [19927] commercial passenger airlines to provide free lavatory facilities for passengers on all international flights Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport contributes using UK airports. [20888] to the wider cross-Government effort to tackle organised crime at UK ports. The Ports Minister, my hon. Friend Mrs Villiers: The Government do not currently have the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), any proposals to introduce regulation requiring airlines would be happy to have discussions on this issue with to provide free toilet facilities for passengers on international the Home Office. flights. We are not aware of any airlines which levy additional charges for the use of such facilities. M4 Bus Lane Alloy Wheels 17. Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent representations he has received on the future of the M4 bus lane; and if he will make a Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [19928] Transport if he will bring forward legislative proposals to introduce a legal weight limit for alloy wheels fitted Mr Philip Hammond: We have received correspondence to vehicles used on public roads in the UK; and if he from both hon. Members and members of the public. will make a statement. [17447] 461W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 462W

Mike Penning: The Department for Transport has no Road user safety and cycling data plans to introduce a legal weight limit (minimum or Cycling infrastructure maximum) for alloy wheels fitted to vehicles used on Attitudes and behaviours public roads in the UK. Bicycle helmets. Recently a new United Nations Economic Commission To date the Department has published three reports: for Europe Regulation has been agreed for the test Collisions involving cyclists on Britain’s roads: Establishing the methods and performance of replacement light vehicle causes (December 2009) alloy wheels. No decision has been made on whether to http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme1/ implement it in the UK, or across Europe. ppr445.pdf Existing legislation already requires new products, The potential for cycle helmets to prevent injury: A review of the including wheels, which are placed on the market to be evidence (December 2009) safe and fit for purpose. Action can be taken if a http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme1/ product is found to be unsafe. ppr446.pdf Blue Badge Scheme Cycling, safety and sharing the road: Qualitative research with cyclists and other road users (September 2010) http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme1/ Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of researchreport/ State for Transport what plans he has for the future of the blue badge scheme; and if he will make a statement. A report on infrastructure and cycle safety is in [16892] progress.

Norman Baker: The Government are reviewing the Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for existing Blue Badge scheme and considering options for Transport what evidence his Department holds on the reform. There will be an announcement about the future effect of helmet promotion campaigns on the level of of the scheme made shortly. cycle use. [20190] Bus Services: Concessions Norman Baker: The Department for Transport commissioned a research project looking at a range of Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for road safety and cycling issues in August 2008. This Transport what recent representations he has received includes a strand of research focussing on cycle helmets. on the eligibility of higher rate taxpayers for An initial review of the literature on road safety and concessionary bus passes. [18085] cycling revealed a lack of robust and reliable evidence on the effect of cycle helmets on the behaviour of Norman Baker: The Secretary of State has recently cyclists and other road users. An exploration of road received many representations regarding concessionary users’ views on possible interventions to improve driver travel, mainly through correspondence, on a number of and rider behaviour was undertaken within the qualitative issues. research task. The report for this work was published in September 2010 and is available via the Department’s Cycling website. Cycling, safety and sharing the road: Qualitative Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for research with cyclists and other road users (September Transport what plans he has to increase the standard of 2010): highway authority delivery of cycle-friendly planning http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme1/ and design. [20187] researchreport/ Norman Baker: Local highway authorities are responsible Cycling: Finance for the planning, design and delivery of cycle-friendly infrastructure within their areas. To assist them in this, the Department for Transport has published a considerable Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for amount of evidence-based technical advice on good Transport what his policy is on funding programmes practice in the design and provision of cycle infrastructure, delivered by Cycling England; and if he will make a including ‘Local Transport Note 2/08 Cycle Infrastructure statement. [17102] Design, Manual for Streets and Manual for Streets 2’: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf Norman Baker: Cycling England was set up as the http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/manforstreets/ independent expert body to advise on the promotion of pdfmanforstreets.pdf cycling. The Government believe that this work can http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/manforstreets/ now be better delivered within the Department for Transport through the newly announced Local Sustainable Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Fund, so Cycling England is to be wound up Transport what research his Department (a) is at the end of this financial year. undertaking and (b) plans to undertake on measures Bikeability—cycle proficiency for the 21st Century—will to improve cyclists’ safety. [20189] be supported for the remainder of this Parliament (i.e. until 2015) from the Local Sustainable Transport Fund. Norman Baker: The Department for Transport We will be announcing further details about this shortly. commissioned a research project looking at a range of We want arrangements in place so that cycle training road safety and cycling issues in August 2008 which has for children can be delivered in spring and summer examined the following topics: 2011. 463W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 464W

Cycling England still has a programme of work to We will also be considering options to alter the balance deliver for the remainder of this financial year and of responsibility for stations between Network Rail and funding for this is not affected. the train operators. DfT is also considering establishing an expert panel It is a commercial consideration for the individual on wider sustainable travel which would promote cycling train operating companies to provide storage space for as part of the wider green agenda. cycles on their trains. It is not for the Department to dictate how many cycle spaces an operator should provide Cycling: Railways but we do encourage train operators to accommodate folding bicycles at all times. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for The Station Travel Plan pilot scheme being run by the Transport (1) what plans he has to provide financial rail industry aims to encourage passengers to travel to support to (a) train operating companies and (b) and from the station by more sustainable means. It is Network Rail for the integration of cycling and rail considering provision of cycle storage facilities at stations travel after April 2011; [20191] and safe cycle routes to stations. (2) if he will take steps to require rail franchisees to Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings provide space for cycles (a) at railway stations and (b) on new or refurbished rolling stock; [20192] Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) if he will take steps to require (a) rail franchisees Transport how many officials in his Department have and (b) Network Rail to (i) consult on and (ii) monitor been (a) subject to disciplinary action, (b) removed the effectiveness of measures to combine cycling and from post, (c) transferred to another position and (d) rail travel. [20193] dismissed for matters relating to their (i) disciplinary record and (ii) performance in each year since 1997. Mrs Villiers: The Government recognise the importance [18721] of investing in station improvements and is committed Norman Baker: The Department for Transport was to facilitating this investment through reforms to the formed on 29 May 2002 comprising a central Department way the railways are run. and seven agencies. The Department for Transport does We will grant longer rail franchises in order to give not keep disciplinary records for the years prior to 2006 train operators the incentive to invest in the improvements in accordance with Data Protection Act. The information passengers want including better cycle facilities at stations. reported is as follows:

(d) Dismissed for matters relating to their: (a) Subject to (c) Transferred to disciplinary action (b) Removed from post1, 4 another position4 (i) Discipline record3 (ii) Performance

2010 116 0 1 16 11 2009 221 6 6 32 9 2008 2195 25 22215 2007 2302 22 20260 2006 266 20 20141 1 Highways Agency does not have information about staff who have been removed from their post as a consequence of disciplinary action. 2 Maritime and Coastguard Agency does not keep records of spent disciplinary penalties. For the period in question they are only able to report on disciplinary penalties which have led to a dismissal. Figures reflecting a number of disciplinary penalties that are still in force are for 2009 and 2010 to date only. 3 Vehicle and Operator Services Agency combined their answers for (d) (i) and (d) (ii) as more detailed information can be provided only at disproportionate cost. The information is therefore reflected in (d) (i). 4 Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency is unable to provide information about the number of officials who have been removed from post or transferred to another position due to disproportionate cost. Their information therefore is recorded in (a), (d) (i) and (d) (ii) only.

There are over 18,000 people employed by the The Department reports sickness absence figures to Department for Transport and its agencies. the Cabinet Office on a quarterly basis and update our results on the external website: Departmental Sick Leave http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/staff/sickabsence Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Driving Tests: Qualifications how many officials in his Department have had (a) fewer than five days, (b) five to 10 days, (c) 10 to 15 Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for days, (d) 15 to 20 days, (e) 20 to 25 days, (f) 25 to 50 Transport what recent assessment his Department has days, (g) 50 to 75 days, (h) 75 to 100 days, (i) 100 to made of the effectiveness of the Driver Certificate of 150 days, (j) 150 to 200 days, (k) more than 200 days, Professional Competence. [19597] (l) more than three months, (m) more than six months and (n) one year on paid sick leave (i) consecutively Mike Penning: The Driver Certificate of Professional and (ii) in total in each year since 1997. [18723] Competence (Driver CPC) was introduced in September 2008 for coach and bus drivers, and September 2009 for Norman Baker: I am afraid that the information lorry drivers to implement the requirements of EU requested can be provided only at disproportionate Directive 2003/59/EC. It is too early yet to make any cost. assessment of the scheme’s effectiveness. 465W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 466W

EU Law Mrs Villiers: We are funding a range of rail improvements across Lancashire and the North West. These include: Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport The routes between Manchester, Liverpool, Preston and Blackpool what estimate he made of the cost to his Department will be electrified. and its non-departmental public bodies of compliance Power supplies on the West Coast Main Line will be upgraded with (a) domestic, (b) European and (c) other to support the running of more services. international human rights requirements in each year Some platforms will be lengthened where necessary to accommodate patronage growth. since 1997; and if he will make a statement. [18718] We are investing to improve line speeds on the Liverpool- Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does Manchester-Leeds route. not collate information on the costs of compliance with North West stations have been highlighted for improvement through the National Stations Improvement and Access For All human rights requirements or the benefits that accrue. programmes. The Department takes account of the domestic and In Manchester, we are providing funding for the extension of international human rights framework in developing all Metrolink. In addition to work under way, a further £170 million its policies and practices, as it does other relevant legal extension plan was announced in July. obligations; an accurate estimate of the total cost of A further announcement on investment in rail will be compliance with human rights obligations could not be made shortly. made without incurring disproportionate cost. First Great Western: Electrification Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what rail electrification schemes in the North West his Department plans to fund during the Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Comprehensive Spending Review period; [20579] Transport (1) whether funding for the electrification of the Great Western Line will be allocated during the (2) what timetable his Department has set for the completion of rail electrification work between Spending Review period; [20364] Liverpool and Manchester. [20580] (2) what timetable has been set for the completion of the electrification of the Great Western Line. [20365] Mrs Villiers: On 20 October, the Chancellor announced that electrification of the lines between Manchester, Mrs Villiers: We are currently considering revised Liverpool, Preston and Blackpool would go ahead. We proposals from Agility Trains for the Intercity Express are working with Network Rail to determine the timetable Programme. An announcement on the electrification of for the completion of these schemes, and will make an the Great Western Main Line will be made in light of announcement in due course. the Government’s final decision on that programme. Road Safety: Finance Network Rail: Scotland Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Tom Harris: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much his Department (a) has allocated Transport what the expenditure of Network Rail was in and (b) plans to allocate to road safety in the financial Scotland in the last 12 months for which figures are year 2010-11; and how much was allocated in (i) available. [20223] 2008-09 and (ii) 2009-10. [17159]

Mrs Villiers: In 2009-10, Network Rail’s total expenditure Mike Penning: The UK has the safest roads in Europe in Scotland was £589 million. and the Government wish to ensure that we maintain that position. However, the Government have made Ports clear that their urgent priority is to tackle the UK’s record deficit in order to restore confidence in our Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for economy and support the recovery. As a contribution to Transport what steps his Department is taking to the in-year spending reductions as part of our programme increase the international economic competitiveness of to address the record deficit, we have reduced the planned domestic ports. [19831] level of road safety grant in 2010-11. At the same time, local authorities were given greater freedom and flexibility Mike Penning: UK ports have a strong record of in the management of their finances and the use of operating competitively both domestically and grant funding streams. Therefore, the fact that this internationally. Our policy is to enable ports to build on grant has been reduced does not mean that the Government this success by avoiding the creation of any unnecessary necessarily expect local authorities to reduce their road burdens or impediments to fair competition. safety spending by a similar proportion. It is for local The Government’s National Infrastructure Plan, authorities and local communities to determine the published on 25 October, sets out the wider context for priorities for their areas. The Department currently infrastructure to support economic investment and our forecasts allocating £76.5 million towards dedicated international competitiveness. road safety programmes and administration in 2010-11. It allocated £145.0 million in 2008/09 and £143.1 million Railways: North West in 2009-10 towards comparable activities. These totals include the road safety funding stream in Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for area based grant and the specific road safety grant. Transport what rail improvements he plans to fund in Other items included are expenditure on THINK! (a) Lancashire and (b) the North West during the campaigns, road safety research and statistics, vehicle comprehensive spending review period. [20038] safety and related administration. 467W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 468W

These totals do not include expenditure by the EDUCATION Department’s agencies, nor do they include funding support for other organisations used in part for, but not Academies dedicated to, road safety (for example the integrated transport funding for local authorities and the block grant for Transport for London). Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Education for what reasons academies are not required Thameslink to (a) have regard to the local Children and Young People Plan, (b) promote the well-being of pupils and Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for (c) promote community cohesion. [12271] Transport (1) by what date he expects 24 trains an hour to be running on the Thameslink route between Kings Mr Gibb: Academies are currently required to have Cross and Blackfriars; [19996] regard to the Children and YoungPeople’s Plan (CYPP) (2) to which phases of the Thameslink programme in the same way as maintained schools. However, the his Department has not committed funding; [19997] Government intend—subject to parliamentary (3) by what date he expects the Thameslink approval—to withdraw the regulations requiring CYPPs infrastructure and rolling stock programme to have to be prepared. been completed; [19998] Academies have a very important role in promoting (4) by what date he expects delivery of the last unit of the well-being of their pupils and we trust the governors 12-carriage Thameslink rolling stock to have been to exercise their functions with the aim of promoting completed; [19999] their pupils’ well-being, responding to local circumstances and the wishes of their parents. (5) what capital expenditure he plans to allocate to new Thameslink rolling stock from its proposed Finally in relation to community cohesion, one of the budgets under the 2010 Spending Review. [20000] conditions of grant in the model Funding Agreement is that the Academy will be Mrs Villiers: As set out in the spending review on 20 “at the heart of its community, promoting community cohesion October, the Government are still finalising their position and sharing facilities with other schools and the wider community”. regarding a number of rail projects—including Thameslink. Academies are therefore required to promote community An announcement is expected to be made shortly. cohesion as part of their Funding Agreement which Thameslink: Rolling Stock includes the right of the Secretary of State to call for information on their outreach work with other schools Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for and the local community. Transport what timetable has been set for purchasing new rolling stock for the Thameslink upgrade. [20363] Academies: Finance

Mrs Villiers: As set out in the spending review on the Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for 20 October, the Government are still finalising their Education how much funding his Department has position regarding a number of rail projects including provided per pupil to schools with academy status in Thameslink. An announcement will be made shortly. each local authority area in England in each of the last Transport: Finance five years. [12673]

Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Gibb [holding answer 6 September 2010]: The for Transport when he plans to invite bids for funding amount of funding per pupil paid to academies in each for the Local Sustainable Transport Fund; and if he relevant local authority area for academic years from will make a statement. [20515] 2005/06 to 2009/10 is shown in the table. Since April 2010, payment has been made by the Young People’s Norman Baker: We intend to invite bids to the Local Learning Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State. It Sustainable Transport Fund later in the year. The does not include start-up grants (since these would Department for Transport will at that stage publish distort comparisons), nor standards fund grants, which guidance on the bidding process and set out an indicative for many academies in the years in question were paid timetable for the submission and assessment of bids. by local authorities.

Local authority name order £ Funding per pupil for academic year: LA name Academy name 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Barnet London Academy 5,111 5,430 5,879 6,138 6,585 Barnet Wren Academy — — — 11,086 7,974 Barnsley The Barnsley Academy — 5,645 5,868 5,833 5,986 Bexley Haberdashers’ Aske’s Crayford Academy — — — — 5,904 Bexley Harris Academy Falconwood — — — 5,152 5,341 Bexley The Business Academy Bexley 4,516 4,817 5,267 5,402 5,402 Birmingham Heartlands Academy — — — — 6,978 Birmingham North Birmingham Academy — — — — 6,834 Birmingham Shenley Academy — — — — 7,020 469W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 470W

Local authority name order £ Funding per pupil for academic year: LA name Academy name 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Birmingham St Alban’s Academy — — — — 7,225 Blackburn with Darwen Darwen Aldridge Community Academy — — — 6,204 6,067 Bolton Essa Academy — — — 5,347 6,065 Bolton St Catherine’s Academy — — — — 5,728 Bradford Appleton Academy — — — — 5,585 Bradford Bradford Academy — — 5,995 6,007 6,054 Bradford Dixon’s Academy 4,819 5,125 5,318 5,503 5,692 Bradford Dixons Allerton Academy — — — — 5,785 Brent Ark Academy — — — 12,765 8,524 Brent Capital City Academy 5,239 5,572 6,075 6,006 6,125 Brent The Crest Boys’ Academy — — — — 6,540 Brent The Crest Girls’ Academy — — — — 6,523 Buckinghamshire The Aylesbury Vale Academy — — — — 5,111 Central Bedfordshire All Saints Academy — — — — 6,193 Cheshire West and Chester University of Chester Church of England Academy — — — — 5,776 City of Bristol Bristol Cathedral School Academy — — — 5,416 5,527 City of Bristol Bristol Metropolitan Academy — — — — 6,751 City of Bristol Colston Girls’ School — — — 5,120 5,304 City of Bristol Merchants Academy Withywood — — — 5,578 5,603 City of Bristol Oasis Academy Brightstowe — — — 7,017 6,845 City of Bristol Oasis Academy Bristol — — — 6,646 6,294 City of Bristol The Bristol Brunel Academy — — 5,452 5,389 5,455 City of Bristol The City Academy Bristol 4,771 5,149 5,811 6,117 6,114 Coventry Grace Academy Coventry — — — 6,115 5,887 Croydon Harris Academy at South Norwood — — 5,889 5,636 6,082 Croydon Harris Academy Purley — — — — 6,361 Croydon Harris City Academy Crystal Palace — — 6,047 6,243 6,561 Croydon Oasis Academy Coulsdon — — — 5,788 5,671 Croydon Oasis Academy Shirley Park — — — — 5,749 Cumbria Furness Academy — — — — 5,574 Cumbria Richard Rose Central Academy — — — 5,272 5,199 Cumbria Richard Rose Morton Academy — — — 4,831 4,600 Cumbria West Lakes Academy — — — 5,075 5,133 Darlington St Aidan’s CE Academy — — 5,697 6,117 6,534 Derby City Landau Forte Academy — 5,342 5,577 5,707 5,925 Doncaster De Warenne Academy — — — — 6,057 Doncaster Outwood Academy Adwick — — — — 5,321 Doncaster Trinity Academy 4,398 4,597 5,034 5,323 5,452 Ealing West London Academy 5,081 5,334 5,686 5,780 6,091 Enfield Oasis Academy Enfield — — 7,284 6,793 6,329 Enfield Oasis Academy Hadley — — — — 6,674 Essex Clacton Coastal Academy — — — — 6,043 Essex Greensward Academy — — — 4,730 4,948 Essex Maltings Academy — — — 5,005 5,191 Essex New Rickstones Academy — — — 4,918 5,266 Essex The Basildon Lower Academy — — — — 5,603 Essex The Basildon Upper Academy — — — — 6,144 Greenwich St Paul’s Academy 5,052 5,122 5,251 5,696 5,929 Hackney Mossbourne Community Academy 6,166 6,311 6,541 7,667 7,503 Hackney The Bridge Academy — — 8,125 8,625 7,946 Hackney The City Academy Hackney1 — — — — 10,182 Hackney The Petchey Academy — 7,751 7,187 7,807 7,584 Hammersmith and Fulham Burlington Danes Academy — 5,885 6,176 6,641 6,971 Haringey Greig City Academy 5,476 6,097 6,477 6,582 6,548 Herefordshire The Hereford Academy — — — 5,029 4,946 Herefordshire The Steiner Academy Hereford — — — 4,251 4,313 Hertfordshire Francis Combe Academy — — — — 5,569 Hertfordshire The Bushey Academy — — — — 6,660 Hillingdon Stockley Academy 5,134 5,579 5,791 5,795 6,100 Hillingdon The Harefield Academy 5,275 5,413 5,590 5,950 6,171 Islington City of London Academy Islington — — — 7,374 7,038 Islington St Mary Magdalene Academy — — 7,410 7,416 7,010 Kensington and Chelsea The Chelsea Science Academy1 — — — — 9,926 471W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 472W

Local authority name order £ Funding per pupil for academic year: LA name Academy name 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Kent Cornwallis Academy — — 4,714 4,690 4,931 Kent Folkestone Academy — — 5,836 5,612 5,367 Kent Longfield Academy — — — 5,898 5,819 Kent Marsh Academy — — 4,875 5,012 5,292 Kent New Line Learning Academy — — 5,610 5,599 6,338 Kent Skinners Kent Academy — — — — 7,261 Kent Spires Academy — — 6,438 6,043 6,205 Kent The Isle of Sheppey Academy — — — — 5,413 Kent The Leigh Technology Academy — — 5,615 5,719 6,046 Kent The Marlowe Academy 5,604 5,467 6,527 6,447 6,936 Kingston Upon Hull Archbishop Sentamu Academy — — — 5,478 5,572 Kingston Upon Hull Sirius Academy — — — — 5,591 Lambeth Evelyn Grace Academy — — — 8,940 8,253 Lambeth Lambeth Academy 4,921 6,430 6,676 6,895 7,348 Lancashire Accrington Academy — — — 5,108 5,155 Lancashire Fulwood Academy — — — — 5,194 Leeds David Young Community Academy — 5,182 5,501 5,963 6,222 Leeds Leeds West Academy — — — — 5,783 Leeds South Leeds Academy — — — — 6,590 Leicester City Samworth Enterprise Academy — — 4,862 5,825 6,393 Lewisham Haberdashers’ Aske’s Hatcham Academy 5,279 5,490 6,059 6,081 6,423 Lewisham Haberdashers’ Aske’s Knights Academy 5,662 5,857 6,689 6,330 6,596 Lewisham St Matthew Academy — — 6,322 6,302 6,410 Lincolnshire St George’s Academy — — — — 4,886 Lincolnshire The Priory City of Lincoln Academy — — — 5,086 5,137 Lincolnshire The Priory LSST Academy — — — 4,766 4,887 Lincolnshire The Priory Witham Academy — — — 5,322 5,378 Lincolnshire Trent Valley Academy — — — 5,277 5,092 Liverpool Academy of St Francis of Assisi 5,022 5,253 5,431 5,619 5,847 Liverpool North Liverpool Academy — 5,395 5,384 5,540 5,592 Liverpool The Belvedere Academy — — 5,500 5,460 5,804 Luton Barnfield South Academy — — 5,209 5,551 5,858 Luton Barnfield West Academy — — 5,277 5,494 5,738 Manchester Manchester Academy 3,550 4,671 5,779 5,809 5,824 Manchester Manchester Creative and Media Academy (Boys) — — — — 6,712 Manchester Manchester Creative and Media Academy (Girls) — — — — 6,129 Manchester Manchester Enterprise Academy — — — — 7,280 Manchester The Manchester Health Academy — — — — 9,328 Manchester William Hulme Grammar School — — 4,639 5,151 5,400 Medway Strood Academy — — — — 5,304 Merton Harris Academy Merton — 5,365 5,531 5,785 5,771 Merton St Mark’s Church of England Academy — 5,261 5,482 5,811 5,898 Middlesbrough Macmillan Academy 4,816 5,019 5,385 5,603 6,077 Middlesbrough The King’s Academy 4,656 5,260 6,242 6,388 6,743 Middlesbrough Unity Academy 5,221 5,789 6,283 7,372 7,122 Milton Keynes Milton Keynes Academy — — — — 5,920 N E Lincolnshire Havelock Academy — — 5,219 5,367 5,461 N E Lincolnshire Oasis Academy Immingham — — 5,139 5,355 5,539 N E Lincolnshire Oasis Academy Wintringham — — 5,417 5,464 5,631 Newcastle Upon Tyne Excelsior Academy — — — 5,730 6,254 Norfolk City Academy Norwich — — — — 6,843 Norfolk The Open Academy — — — 5,889 5,416 North Lincolnshire St Lawrence Academy — — — 4,940 4,909 Northamptonshire Brooke Weston Academy — — — 6,163 6,260 Northamptonshire Corby Business Academy — — — 6,315 6,149 Northamptonshire Kettering Buccleuch Academy — — — — 4,974 Northamptonshire Kettering Science Academy — — — — 4,924 Northamptonshire Northampton Academy 4,345 4,468 4,730 4,914 5,155 Northumberland Bede Academy — — — — 4,225 Northumberland Northumberland CE Academy — — — — 5,293 Nottingham City Djanogly City Academy 5,051 5,189 5,641 5,864 6,174 Nottingham City Nottingham Academy — — — — 5,572 Nottingham City Nottingham University Samworth Academy — — — — 6,499 473W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 474W

Local authority name order £ Funding per pupil for academic year: LA name Academy name 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Nottingham City The Bulwell Academy — — — — 6,140 Nottinghamshire Samworth Church Academy — — — 5,546 5,480 Oxfordshire North Oxfordshire Academy — — 5,795 5,637 5,642 Oxfordshire The Oxford Academy — — — 6,551 6,635 Peterborough Ormiston Bushfield Academy — — — — 6,116 Peterborough Thomas Deacon Academy — — 4,659 4,954 5,439 Portsmouth Charter Academy — — — — 8,236 Reading John Madejski Academy — 5,621 5,663 5,766 6,317 Rochdale St Anne’s Academy — — 6,021 5,626 5,907 Rotherham Maltby Academy — — — — 5,291 Salford Oasis Academy Media City: UK Salford — — — 5,729 5,717 Salford Salford Academy 5,187 4,939 6,095 6,435 6,594 Sandwell George Salter Collegiate Academy — — 5,668 5,668 5,763 Sandwell Ormiston Sandwell Community Academy — — — — 5,747 Sandwell Q3 Academy — — — 5,235 4,923 Sandwell RSA Academy at Tipton — — — 5,667 5,435 Sandwell Sandwell Academy — 6,307 5,949 5,498 5,543 Sandwell Shireland Collegiate Academy — — 6,264 6,284 6,000 Sheffield Parkwood Academy — — — — 6,271 Sheffield Sheffield Park Academy — 4,804 4,928 5,334 5,540 Sheffield Sheffield Springs Academy — 4,846 4,946 5,143 5,281 Slough Langley Academy — — — 6,652 6,168 Solihull Grace Academy Solihull — 4,549 4,816 5,201 5,243 Solihull Kingshurst Academy — — — 6,193 6,140 Solihull Park Hall Academy — — — — 5,185 South Gloucestershire John Cabot Academy — — 6,008 6,066 6,069 South Gloucestershire The Ridings’ Federation Winterbourne — — — — 4,913 International Academy South Gloucestershire The Ridings’ Federation Yate International — — — — 5,492 Academy Southampton Oasis Academy Lords Hill — — — 6,028 6,187 Southampton Oasis Academy Mayfield — — — 5,674 5,827 Southwark Bacon’s College — — 7,431 8,170 8,249 Southwark City of London Academy 6,370 6,391 6,215 7,087 7,773 Southwark Harris Academy at Peckham 6,257 6,761 6,710 7,672 7,861 Southwark Harris Academy Bermondsey — 6,351 6,617 7,470 8,158 Southwark Harris Boys’ Academy East Dulwich1 — — — — 11,781 Southwark Harris Girls’ Academy East Dulwich — 6,300 6,339 7,174 7,784 Southwark St Michael and All Angels Church of England — — 6,620 7,115 7,358 Academy Southwark The Globe Academy — — — 7,026 7,257 Southwark Walworth Academy — — 6,326 7,798 8,067 Stockport Stockport Academy — — 5,073 5,358 5,748 Sunderland Academy 360 — — — 5,571 5,346 Sunderland Castle View Enterprise Academy — — — — 5,649 Sunderland Red House Academy — — — — 6,192 Swindon Swindon Academy — — 4,933 4,821 5,080 Tameside Droylsden Academy — — — — 5,573 Tameside New Charter Academy — — — 4,941 5,265 Telford and Wrekin Abraham Darby Academy — — — 5,463 5,382 Telford and Wrekin Madeley Academy — 4,929 5,058 5,079 5,141 Thurrock Ormiston Park Academy — — — — 6,780 Thurrock The Gateway Academy — 5,720 5,651 5,834 5,804 Wakefield Outwood Grange Academy — — — — 5,310 Walsall Grace Academy Darlaston — — — — 5,427 Walsall Shelfield Community Academy — — — 4,775 5,216 Walsall Walsall Academy 4,530 4,662 4,697 4,991 5,308 Waltham Forest Walthamstow Academy — 5,362 5,782 6,015 6,080 Wandsworth Ashcroft Technology Academy — — 7,423 7,442 7,837 West Sussex Shoreham Academy — — — — 5,057 West Sussex The Littlehampton Academy — — — — 5,165 West Sussex The Midhurst Rother College — — — 4,958 5,315 West Sussex The Sir Robert Woodard Academy — — — — 5,234 475W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 476W

Local authority name order £ Funding per pupil for academic year: LA name Academy name 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Westminster King Solomon Academy — — 6,530 6,737 8,276 Westminster Paddington Academy — 6,294 7,133 7,282 7,732 Westminster Pimlico Academy — — — 6,839 8,252 Westminster Westminster Academy — 6,097 6,860 6,593 8,533 Wiltshire Wellington Academy — — — — 5,506 Wirral Birkenhead High School Academy — — — — 4,870 Wolverhampton South Wolverhampton and Bilston Academy — — — — 7,600 Worcestershire Tudor Grange Academy — — — — 5,543 1 The high funding per pupil for City Academy Hackney, Chelsea Science Academy and Harris Boys Academy Southwark in 2009/10 is due to their opening with only Year 7 pupils.

Ed Balls: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Financial year Capital Revenue what arrangements exist for academy schools to borrow against future income for the purposes of (a) 2009-10 — 10,723,994 expansion, (b) investment in facilities, (c) urgent Total 27,819,539 56,770,735 repairs and (d) any other purpose; and whether these have changed since 12 May 2010. [15686] Harris Girls’ Academy East Dulwich—opened 2006 Mr Gibb [holding answer 16 September 2010]: The 2001-02 — — ability of an academy to borrow for any purpose is 2002-03 — — defined by its individual funding agreement. The current 2003-04 — — model funding agreement provides that an academy 2004-05 — — may not borrow against funds or other assets provided 2005-06 — 55,019 by the Secretary of State without his permission, and 2006-07 431,107 5,040,419 that such permission will be given only in limited 2007-08 507,262 5,969,627 circumstances. This has not changed since 12 May 2010. 2008-09 401,337 6,356,083 Such permission has been given for the transfer to 2009-10 2,634,040 6,868,238 academy trusts of existing loans made by local authorities Total 3,974,746 24,289,385 to some “outstanding” maintained schools which have converted under the Academies Act 2010. Harris Boys’ Academy East Dulwich—opened 2009 Academies: Greater London 2001-02 — — 2002-03 — — Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for 2003-04 — — Education how much funding was received from all 2004-05 — — Government sources by (a) the Harris Academy at 2005-06 — 55,019 Peckham, (b) the Harris Girls’ Academy, East 2006-07 424,553 415,112 Dulwich, (c) the Harris Boys’ Academy, East Dulwich, 2007-08 647,483 188,249 (d) the Walworth Academy and (e) St Michael and 2008-09 2,707,653 189,181 All Angels Academy in each financial year since they 2009-10 14,178,336 2,800,555 Total 17,958,025 3,648,114 became academies. [14160]

Mr Gibb: Payments made to these academies for Walworth Academy—opened 2007 capital and revenue purposes up to and including 2009-10 2001-02 — — are shown in the following table. The payments include those made for feasibility and implementation purposes 2002-03 — — prior to opening. The capital payments for Walworth 2003-04 — — and St Michael and All Angels academies include payments 2004-05 — — made through Partnerships for Schools (PfS) to the 2005-06 — — local authority for the construction of the academies. 2006-07 — 58,365 2007-08 — 5,752,729 Financial year Capital Revenue 2008-09 284,088 7,854,710 2009-10 — 7,842,458 Harris Academy at Peckham— opened 2003 Total 284,088 21,508,262 2001-02 59,520 161,509 2002-03 825,964 556,439 St Michael and All Angels 2003-04 5,555,817 4,315,483 Academy—opened 2007 2004-05 15,772,972 6,846,809 2001-02 — — 2005-06 4,744,944 7,352,432 2002-03 — — 2006-07 860,322 8,330,194 2003-04 — — 2007-08 — 8,647,116 2004-05 — — 2008-09 — 9,836,759 2005-06 — — 477W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 478W

Sarah Teather: A response has been sent to the hon. Financial year Capital Revenue Member’s letter on 28 October 2010. 2006-07 — 351,186 2007-08 136,935 5,149,335 2008-09 177,427 7,294,857 Schools: Buildings 2009-10 — 7,152,254 Total 314,363 19,947,632 Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Building Schools for the Future Programme for Education what steps have been taken to implement the proposals announced in the written ministerial Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for statement of 16 October 2009, Official Report, columns Education which local authorities he has met to discuss 41-2WS, on auditory standards for school buildings; the cancellation of the Building Schools for the Future and if he will make a statement. [14677] programme. [11866] Mr Gibb: In April this year, the Department for Mr Gibb: On 5 July the Secretary of State announced Children, Schools and Families and the Department for a review of all areas of DfE capital spending. Its Communities and Local Government jointly wrote to purpose is to ensure that future capital investment every Building Control Body in England and Wales, represents good value for money and strongly supports reminding them of the importance of Requirement E4 the Government’s ambitions to reduce the deficit, raise of the Building Regulations 2000 which covers acoustic standards and tackle disadvantage. While he announced standards in schools. The letter advised Building Control that the Building Schools for the Future programme is Bodies to ask to see the results of any acoustic testing ending, this does not mean the end of capital investment that has been carried out to assess compliance with by this Department. Requirement E4. To date the Secretary of State has had meetings with Exeter University Energy and Environment Centre Coventry, Bedford borough, Brent and Sandwell local were appointed in December 2009 to evaluate the acoustic authorities to discuss the cancellation of the Building environment of six schools and the results of this work Schools for the Future programme. will inform any future guidance on acoustics. Departmental Responsibilities An acoustic consultant has been appointed to work on the Space for Personalised Learning pilot projects. Findings will be published on the Spaces for Personalised Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Learning website: Education what the remit is of the Children’s Rights and Participation team in the Health and Well-being http://www.space4pl.org/ Division of his Department; and how many staff were The Secretary of State for Education launched a employed in that division in the last 12 months. [17434] review of all schools capital investment on 5 July. The review will look at reform of the requirements on Sarah Teather: The Children’s Rights and Participation schools including the School Premises Regulations and team currently consist of three full-time and one part-time design requirements. Decisions about future guidance staff. Its current remit is to promote and support the and standards for school buildings are subject to the implementation of the United Nations Convention on outcome of this review. the Rights of the Child in England through government policy, and to coordinate UK-wide reports on progress to the UN Committee. It oversees activity to support Schools: Repairs and Maintenance the involvement of children and young people in decision- making centrally and locally, and is the policy sponsor for the Office of the Children’s Commissioner for England. Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many schools were (a) rebuilt and (b) Free Schools refurbished between 1997 and May 2010. [14028]

Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gibb: Information provided by local authorities Education how many of the 16 schools that have been in England in the 2007 and 2009 School Building Surveys accepted for free school status previously had grant- indicate that since 1997-98 there were: maintained status. [14581] 2,164—new or replacement schools Mr Gibb: 16 proposals for free schools have been 844—school refurbishments of more than 80% of the floor approved for progression to the business case and plan area stage. Of these, none are schools that previously had 2,004—school refurbishments of between 50 to 80% of the grant-maintained status. floor area. These figures include projects that were planned to be Members: Correspondence completed by 21 August 2011. Information is not readily available on school refurbishments of less than 50% of Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for the floor area and to provide it would incur disproportionate Education when he plans to reply to the letter from the cost. It should be noted that detailed checks on the hon. Member for St Albans of 21 June 2010, on the quality and completeness of the information provided Abbey View Nursery. [20047] by local authorities in the surveys have not been carried out. 479W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 480W

Special Educational Needs Mr Gibb: The Troops to Teachers programme is currently being developed in line with the coalition Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for document’s commitment, and we are currently looking Education what steps he plans to take in response to at ways in which a wide range of former service personnel the recommendations of Ofsted’s report on special can become involved in teaching and with schools. We educational needs. [R] [19415] hope to launch the programme next year. In the interim, ex-service personnel interested in becoming Sarah Teather [holding answer 25 October 2010]: teachers will continue to be supported by the Transition The Government aim to publish a Green Paper on to Teaching programme and may follow any of the special educational needs and disability later this year. available routes into teaching. Ofsted’s report and the issues that it highlights will be taken into consideration as the Department develops Teachers: Qualifications the Green Paper. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent assessment he has made of the Education what plans he has for the future of the adequacy of his Department’s guidance to schools statementing process for children with special regarding the use of unqualified teaching staff covering educational needs. [R] [19416] teacher absences; and if he will make a statement. [13567] Sarah Teather [holding answer 25 October 2010]: The Government have made clear that they want to make the special educational needs system, including Mr Gibb: Head teachers are responsible for deploying the statementing process, less adversarial and bureaucratic and managing teaching and support staff of the school and for it to provide a more comprehensive service for and allocating particular duties to them in a manner families. A Green Paper on special educational needs consistent with their conditions of employment and the and disability, which we aim to publish later this year, needs of the school. The Training and Development will set out the Government’s vision for the future of Agency for schools has issued a range of guidance to special educational needs. schools on best practice in employing and deploying teaching assistance. This can be found at: Teachers Pensions http://www.tda.gov.uk/remodelling.aspx Teachers: Science and Mathematics Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether he has made a recent estimate of the proportion of pensioners in receipt of a pension Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Education from the Teachers’ Pension Scheme of more than what plans he has to increase the number of science £50,000 who worked in a school not funded wholly or and mathematics graduates entering the teaching in part from the public purse immediately before profession. [13233] retirement. [18556] Mr Gibb: The Government accept that there is a Mr Gibb [holding answer 21 October 2010]: There continuing need to increase the number of teachers in are currently 91 pensioners whose employment immediately these subjects and it is our intention to attract more top prior to their retirement was in an independent school science and mathematics graduates into the profession and who are in receipt of a pension in excess of £50,000 in England. We are therefore reviewing the routes into a year from the Teachers’ Pension Scheme. teaching and the incentives offered to well qualified people who want to teach science and mathematics. We Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for have already announced plans to double the number of Education how many schools not in receipt of funding participants in the successful Teach First scheme so that from his Department have members who make more schools may benefit from the talents of some of contributions to the Teachers’ Pension Scheme. [18559] the country’s best graduates. Three quarters of Teach First participants teach the most demanding shortage Mr Gibb [holding answer 21 October 2010]: Membership subjects, including mathematics and science. of the Teachers’ Pension Scheme (TPS) is automatically available to teachers in maintained schools, FE Young People: Liverpool establishments, post 1992 universities, free schools and academies. Independent schools can apply for admission Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for to the TPS in respect of their teaching staff. Currently Education what steps he plans to take to support 1,488 independent schools have teachers who are members partnership working to raise the attainment of young of the TPS. people in Liverpool Wavertree constituency. [13753]

Teachers: Armed Forces Mr Gibb: A key principle of this Government is to trust professionals and empower head teachers and Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for their leadership teams to make decisions about the Education how many former service personnel have future direction of their schools. We also believe that a (a) applied for and (b) been enrolled in the Troops for local approach is needed to develop partnerships and Teachers programme since its inception; and if he will leadership to meet the needs of all children and young make a statement. [14700] people in the area. 481W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 482W

Our immediate priority has been to introduce legislation Mr Blunt: Persons found guilty at all courts for to allow all maintained schools to benefit from the murder in England and Wales from 1980 to 2005 are freedoms and flexibilities of Academy status, as part of shown in the following table. a permissive and mixed economy of school provision. Defendants found guilty at all courts for murder1, England and Wales, The Academies Act 2010 allows more schools to benefit 1980 to 20052,3 from Academy freedoms to help them innovate and Found guilty raise standards. We expect any outstanding schools that convert to 1980 169 Academy status to work in partnership to support other 1981 126 schools, with a direct focus on school improvement and 1982 184 the raising of standards. 1983 132 A 14-19 Partnership is already in existence in Liverpool 1984 156 to help raise the attainment of young people in the area, 1980-84 767 including those in Liverpool Wavertree. This partnership is well placed to ensure a coherent strategy to meet local 1985 173 needs. 1986 179 1987 166 1988 231 JUSTICE 1989 189 1990 180 Coroners and Justice Act 2009 1991 201 Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for 1992 182 Justice when he plans to implement the provisions of 1993 211 1994 192 the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. [19695] 1985-94 1,904 Mr Djanogly: In my written statement of 14 October 2010, columns 37-38WS, I set out that I would commence 1995 214 provisions in Part 1 (Coroners) of the Act which would 1996 257 enable operational problems facing coroners to be tackled. 1997 275 This will include making it simpler to transfer cases 1998 256 from one coroner to another, and removing rigid boundary 1999 252 restrictions on where post-mortem examinations may 2000 261 be carried out. The aim is to implement these provisions 2001 285 by April 2012 at the latest. I also set out that provisions 2002 324 requiring the appointment of a chief coroner would either not be implemented or that certain key functions 2003 277 may be transferred to another body. These key functions 2004 361 might include oversight of training for coroners and 2005 394 their staff, and direction that responsibility for a case is 1995- 3,156 transferred either to a judge or to another coroner. The 2005 1 Includes offences under Common Law and Offences Against the timescale for this transfer of functions will depend on Person Act 1861, Sections 1, 9 and 10. parliamentary progress of both the Public Bodies Bill, 2 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons in which the office of chief coroner will be abolished, for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they and the subsequent affirmative order which will set out were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or to which body or bodies the chief coroner’s powers are more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more to be transferred. It is likely therefore that it will take offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory longer than April 2012 to implement these provisions. maximum penalty is the most severe. 3 Drugs: Rehabilitation Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the courts. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data what proportion of offenders issued with a (a) Drug collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into Treatment and Testing Order and (b) Drug account when those data are used. Rehabilitation Requirement in each of the last three Source: years completed that order, having complied with its Justice Statistics Analytical Services within the Ministry of Justice. terms. [19707]

Mr Blunt: 43% of DTTOs and DRRs which terminated Judges: Public Appointments in 2007-08 were completed successfully. In 2008-09 the rate was 47%. Outturns for 2009-10 will be published in the coming weeks. Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Homicide Justice what mechanisms are in place to ensure transparency in respect of judicial appointments; what John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for lists are maintained of judicial candidates; what steps Justice how many people in England and Wales were are taken to inform applicants of their position on convicted of murder between (a) 1980 and 1984, (b) those lists; and on what criteria applications for judicial 1985 and 1994 and (c) 1995 and 2005. [18290] posts are determined. [20008] 483W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 484W

Mr Kenneth Clarke: Recommendations for judicial Mr Djanogly: In 2009 there were 4,800 criminal appointments are made to me (as Lord Chancellor) by proceedings completed at magistrates courts in the Worksop the independent Judicial Appointments Commission and Retford local justice area (LJA). Worksop and (JAC) for England and Wales. The JAC selects candidates Retford are the only two magistrates courts in this LJA; for judicial office on merit, through fair and open however, centrally collected information does not allow competition, from the widest range of eligible candidates. the separate identification of those proceedings completed The JAC selects candidates either for immediate at Worksop and Retford magistrates courts specifically. appointment, or when requested to do so by the Ministry Information on the addresses of defendants in magistrates of Justice under section 94 of the Constitutional Reform court cases began being recorded on central administrative Act 2005 (CRA), for future vacancies. All selection systems in 2009. Officials are currently analysing the exercises are publicly advertised. quality and completeness of the information held and I The JAC maintains a database of candidate applications. will write to the hon. Member in due course with the These are used for the administration of the selection results of this investigation. process, quality assurance and for statistical and research purposes. If the JAC receives a request under section 94 Offenders: Incentives and Earned Privilege Scheme of the CRA to select candidates for future vacancies, it maintains a record of such candidates. Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice No steps are taken to inform applicants of their (1) how many offenders in each prison establishment position. Where candidates are considered for a vacancy were subject to loss of privileges under the PSO 4000 request made under section 94 of the CRA they are Incentives and Earned Privilege Scheme following informed if they are considered to be selectable. When a adjudication in the last 12 months; [20278] specific vacancy arises the JAC considers those people (2) how many offenders in each prison establishment who were previously considered suitable for appointment were adjudged guilty at adjudication of breach of and makes a recommendation on merit. prison discipline in each of the last 12 months; and if Most judicial posts require that a candidate has a he will make a statement. [20279] statutory qualification to be eligible to apply. The JAC selects candidates solely on merit and only people of Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management Service good character and assesses merit against a set of (NOMS) records the total number of findings of guilt qualities and abilities, available on their website at: against prisoners at internal disciplinary hearings http://www.judicialappointments.gov.uk/application-process/ (adjudications) where punishments of forfeiture of privileges 112.htm were imposed. Figures are not held centrally by individual establishment. In 2009 (the latest figures available) this Legal Aid: Mental Health punishment was imposed on 84,735 occasions. Some prisoners may have been punished more than once. Richard Harrington: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what assessment he has made of the effects on In some cases a disciplinary offence, or a pattern of the operation of Mental Health Act Tribunals of misbehaviour by a prisoner, will lead to a review of the implementation of proposed changes to his prisoner’s privilege level, but this is an administrative Department’s budget for legal aid for 2011-12; and if procedure separate from adjudications. he will make a statement. [20209] The total number of proven disciplinary offences in 2009 was 104,745. NOMS does not have data for how Mr Djanogly: Following the recent tender for new many offenders committed these offences each month. contracts to be introduced on 15 November, the Legal Data on disciplinary offences and punishments in Services Commission (LSC) will be allocating approximately prisons are available in the Offender Management Caseload 1,500 more new matter starts (the phrase the LSC to Statistics 2009, on the Ministry of Justice website at: describe new cases started) in mental health in the http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ 2010-11 contract year than were allocated in 2009-10. prisonandprobation.htm The mental health contract tenders were carried out on a non-competitive basis, and the number of applicants Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice who have been provisionally offered a contract closely how many offenders in each prison establishment were matches the number of existing providers. The LSC is on the basic level of the Incentives and Earned confident that the overall provision of mental health Privilege Scheme (a) on the last date for which details services will remain good. are available and (b) 12 months previously. [20291] On 23 June 2010 the Justice Secretary announced, via written ministerial statement, that the Government are Mr Blunt: The latest figures that are available for undertaking a fundamental policy assessment of legal prisoners on the basic level of the Incentives and Earned aid in England and Wales. The Government intend to Privileges Scheme are for the end of September 2010, seek views on proposals later this autumn. Impact and are as follows: assessments will be published in the usual way. Prison September 2010 September 2009 Magistrates Courts: Nottinghamshire Acklington 7 3 John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Albany 5 1 how many criminal cases at (a) Worksop and (b) Altcourse 49 60 Retford magistrates court involved defendants living in Ashfield 55 53 post code areas (a) DN22, (b) DN10, (c) DN1 and Ashwell 0 0 (d) S81 in 2009. [20210] Askham Grange 0 0 485W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 486W

Prison September 2010 September 2009 Prison September 2010 September 2009

Aylesbury 19 8 Kirklevington 0 0 Bedford 6 3 Lancaster 1 1 Belmarsh 22 14 Lancaster Farms 14 8 Birmingham 4 9 Latchmere House 0 0 Blantyre House 0 0 Leeds 3 7 Blundeston 3 7 Leicester 10 3 Brinsford 9 9 Lewes 3 11 Bristol 7 10 Leyhill 0 0 Brixton 7 8 Lincoln 7 8 Bronzefield 4 3 Lindholme 14 9 Buckley Hall 7 2 Littlehey 16 1 Bullingdon 15 7 Liverpool 8 11 Bullwood Hall 0 0 Long Lartin 7 4 Bure 4 n/a Low Newton 5 3 Camp Hill 7 3 Lowdham Grange 15 20 Canterbury 1 3 Maidstone 0 0 Cardiff 6 9 Manchester 14 30 Castington 0 8 Moorland—Closed 14 125 Channings Wood 6 6 Moorland—Open 0 — Chelmsford 21 16 Morton Hall 1 1 Coldingley 4 1 Mount 14 14 Cookham Wood 18 12 New Hall 18 14 Dartmoor 2 14 North Sea Camp 2 0 Deerbolt 12 4 Northallerton 6 4 Doncaster 23 11 Norwich 14 8 Dorchester 1 2 Nottingham 17 14 Dovegate 8 6 Onley 20 16 Downview 2 1 Parc 20 20 Drake Hall 3 0 Parkhurst 13 9 Durham 8 1 Pentonville 23 10 East Sutton Park 0 0 Peterborough - 50 Eastwood Park 4 7 Female Edmunds Hill 6 3 Peterborough - 37 33 Male Elmley 15 16 Portland 12 17 Erlestoke 2 2 Preston 13 4 Everthorpe 15 7 Ranby 13 27 Exeter 9 5 Reading 0 3 Featherstone 12 10 Risley 30 23 Feltham 35 12 Rochester 17 15 Ford 0 0 Rye Hill 8 11 Forest Bank 29 33 Send 3 0 Foston Hall 7 2 Shepton Mallet 0 0 Frankland 33 19 Shrewsbury 1 4 Full Sutton 10 9 Stafford 3 2 Garth 7 4 Standford Hill 1 0 Gartree 4 5 Stocken 15 5 Glen Parva 42 38 Stoke Heath 27 35 Gloucester 2 0 Styal 5 5 Grendon 0 0 Sudbury 3 1 Guys Marsh 5 11 Swaleside 26 16 Haverigg 20 11 Swansea 3 2 Hewell 6 9 Swinfen Hall 14 26 High Down 11 11 Thorn Cross 7 6 Highpoint 22 18 Usk/Prescoed 0 0 Hindley 20 28 Verne 10 7 Hollesley Bay 2 1 Wakefield 21 9 Holloway 5 6 Wandsworth 16 12 Holme House 6 6 Warren Hill 19 14 Hull 25 8 Wayland 19 8 Kennet 3 2 Wealstun 6 6 Kingston 0 2 Wellingborough 7 1 Kirkham 0 1 Werrington 16 10 487W Written Answers28 OCTOBER 2010 Written Answers 488W

under contract to the Skills Funding Agency through Prison September 2010 September 2009 the Offender Learning and Skills Service (OLASS). Wetherby 12 12 OLASS includes career information and advice services Wharton 3 2 which assesses prisoners initial learning needs to assist Whitemoor 3 5 their employment aspirations. Winchester 5 0 The Qualifications and Credits Framework (QCF) is Wolds 1 2 currently being rolled out across the prison estate and is Woodhill 17 6 in line with mainstream education provision. This provides Wormwood Scrubs 3 3 prisoners with flexible routes to gaining full qualifications Wymott 4 3 and enables progression in small steps through the Total 1,386 1,166 accumulation of credits, one credit being equal to a 1 Joint total for both open and closed sites notional 10 hours of study. This mode of study is most appropriate for prisoners Offenders: Rehabilitation serving sentences of one year or less who can continue and complete their training in the community. Training Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice opportunities will vary depending on the curriculum on what progress has been made on the payment by results offer in different prisons. Prisoner learning and skills is policy for the rehabilitation of offenders. [19702] being reviewed. Prisons: Reform Mr Blunt: The Government are committed to introducing payment by results as part of a new approach to offender rehabilitation. We plan to commission providers to Guy Opperman: To ask the Secretary of State for work with offenders to reduce reoffending, paid for by Justice what progress he has made on his plans to the subsequent savings generated in the criminal justice reform prisons; and if he will make a statement. system. [19737] Officials in the Ministry of Justice are developing Mr Blunt: The Government believe that prison is the proposals for the introduction of payment by results right place for the most serious, dangerous and persistent approaches. The outcome of this work will be published offenders. We will always provide enough prison places for consultation in the forthcoming Green Paper on for those whom the courts judge should receive a custodial offender rehabilitation. sentence. But we are committed to a new approach to Offenders: Women rehabilitation, involving voluntary and private sector partners alongside prison and probation resources. We will publish a Green Paper later this year, setting out Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice our plans to reform sentencing and rehabilitation policy, what recent discussions he has had with Ministerial and we will review our prison capacity strategy in the colleagues on the needs of women offenders. [19706] light of responses to our proposals. Mr Blunt: I have recently had discussions with the Reoffenders Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Equalities on the needs of women offenders. The Government are Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice committed to diverting women away from crime and what recent factors he has identified as contributing to tackling women’s offending. We are taking forward an a reduction in re-offending rates. [19704] approach to provide effective alternatives to remands for the courts with new women’s enhanced bail provision Mr Blunt: This Government are committed to improving and effective community sentences using the expertise rehabilitation outcomes from those leaving prisons or of voluntary sector through women’s community projects. on community sentences. The Ministry of Justice is The aim is to meet the distinct and complex needs of releasing a compendium of reoffending statistics on 4 women which are linked to their offending. November 2010. This covers a wide range of subjects including factors which influence reoffending. Prisoners: Sentencing As part of overhauling the system of rehabilitation to reduce reoffending we are also looking at the sentencing Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice frameworks for adult and young offenders, and the what training is available to prisoners serving sentences range of penalties available in the criminal justice system. of one year or less. [19703] We will take time to get it right and will consult widely before bringing forward specific plans for reform. Our Mr Blunt: Prisoner learning and skills is provided by forthcoming Sentencing and Rehabilitation Green Paper a range of further education colleges and organisations will set out our plans in more detail. 7MC Ministerial Corrections28 OCTOBER 2010 Ministerial Corrections 8MC

The figures from 2006 onwards are taken from a Ministerial Correction corporate framework agreement which gives improved value for money when compared to previous arrangements. Thursday 28 October 2010 This framework agreement includes figures for the UK Border Agency and it is not possible to separate out their expenditure from this figure. The other Executive HOME DEPARTMENT agencies do not yet use this framework and so are not included. Departmental Press The figures provided reflect the functions with Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Office during the listed years. Machinery Home Department how much her Department spent on of government changes and internal departmental newspapers, periodicals and trade profession magazines restructuring has led to changes in the size and functions in each year since 1997. [16227] of the Department. As a consequence direct comparison year on year is very difficult. [Official Report, 11 October 2010, Vol. 516, c. 188-189W.] Letter of correction from Nick Herbert: Expenditure on newspapers and journals for period 1999-2010 £ An error has been identified in the response given to the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green 1999 13,086 (Mike Freer) on 11 October 2010. The year ‘2010’ of the 2000 14,676 Official Report reference in the second paragraph should 2001 24,981 have read ‘2009’. 2002 23,359 The correct answer should have been: 2003 26,734 2004 41,056 Nick Herbert: The answer to this question is provided 2005 42,277 in the following table. It covers the period 1999-2009. 2006 116,237 Figures before 1999 are not available. 2007 102,277 This year we have been able to access more information 2008 80,190 that has enabled us to provide more details than we did 2009 63,479 in answering a similar question answered on 31 March 2010 37,745 2009, Official Report, columns 1075-76W.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 28 October 2010

Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 443 TRANSPORT—continued Bus Service Operators Grant...... 448 Topical Questions ...... 455 Disabled People (Transport Access) ...... 454 High Speed 2 Project...... 450 Highway Infrastructure (Funding)...... 452 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 458 Local Transport Funding...... 447 Custodial Sentences (Women)...... 461 M1-M6 Junction ...... 453 Flexible Parental Leave ...... 463 Rail Network ...... 443 Gender Pay Gap ...... 462 Road Safety (Nottinghamshire) ...... 451 Human Trafficking ...... 460 Severn Bridges (Tolls)...... 443 Supporting People Programmes...... 458 Swindon to Kemble Rail Line ...... 449 Women and Work Sector Skills Pathway Initiative. 462 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 28 October 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 13WS JUSTICE—continued Reforming Debtor Petition Bankruptcy and Early Service Personnel Deaths (Overseas)...... 16WS Discharge...... 13WS The Haldane Principle ...... 13WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 18WS Ministers: Overseas Travel, Hospitality, Gifts and DEFENCE...... 14WS Official External Meetings ...... 18WS Staff Reductions ...... 14WS Special Adviser Numbers and Costs ...... 18WS EDUCATION...... 14WS School Support Staff Negotiating Body...... 14WS TRANSPORT ...... 23WS Cost of Ministerial Cars (2009-10)...... 23WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Highway and Local Transport Schemes (Point of AFFAIRS...... 15WS Order) ...... 24WS Environment Council (14 October) ...... 15WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 24WS JUSTICE...... 16WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Mental Capacity Act 2005 ...... 17WS Affairs Council ...... 24WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 28 October 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 389W CABINET OFFICE...... 414W Disclosure of Information: Homicide...... 389W Charity Commission: Apprentices...... 414W Charity Commission: Finance ...... 414W Public Expenditure...... 414W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 452W Basic Skills: Finance ...... 452W Business: Bexleyheath ...... 453W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 390W Business: Equality...... 453W Council Housing: Waiting Lists ...... 390W Business: Females ...... 453W Housing Benefit ...... 390W Business: Unfair Practices...... 454W Housing: St Albans...... 391W Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings...... 454W Regeneration: Hull...... 391W Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme ...... 454W Social Rented Housing...... 391W European Regional Development Fund...... 455W Trading Standards...... 392W Groceries Supply Code of Practice ...... 455W Higher Education: Costs...... 455W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 408W Imports: Health Foods...... 456W Apprentices...... 408W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 457W Betting ...... 408W Manufacturing Industry...... 457W Betting: Licensing ...... 408W Mature Students ...... 457W Broadband ...... 408W Members: Correspondence ...... 458W Capital Investment: Greater London and North Public Expenditure...... 458W East...... 409W Regional Development Agencies: Assets...... 458W Departmental Contracts ...... 409W Students: Fees and Charges...... 458W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 411W Students: Finance ...... 459W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 411W Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— Gambling: Internet ...... 412W continued National Lottery etc. Act 1993...... 412W National England Office ...... 406W S4C: Wales...... 413W Nature Conservation: Convictions ...... 406W Television: Licensing ...... 413W Public Expenditure...... 407W Tourism: Cumbria...... 413W Rural Development Programmes ...... 407W

DEFENCE...... 444W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 394W Armed Forces: Conditions of Employment ...... 444W Brazil: Fossil Fuels...... 394W Armed Forces: Germany ...... 444W Conflict Pool...... 394W Armed Forces: Germany...... 445W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 394W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 445W European Union ...... 395W Armed Forces: Personnel ...... 445W Gibraltar: Spain ...... 396W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 446W Human Rights: Kosovo ...... 396W Army: Reorganisation...... 446W Military Bases...... 396W Civil Service: Redundancy ...... 446W Security: EU ...... 397W Defence: Broadcasting Reception...... 447W Transcaucasus: Diplomatic Service ...... 397W Defence Estates...... 446W Turkey: Arrests ...... 397W Defence: Expenditure...... 448W Defence: ICT ...... 448W HEALTH...... 415W Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator ...... 447W Care Homes: Fees ...... 415W Departmental Apprentices ...... 448W Dental Services ...... 415W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 449W Departmental Computer Software...... 416W European Fighter Aircraft ...... 449W Health Services: Greater London...... 417W Hercules Aircraft ...... 449W Hospitals: Food ...... 417W Manpower...... 449W Mental Health...... 418W Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre...... 450W Methadone...... 418W Nimrod Aircraft...... 450W NHS...... 421W Reserve Forces ...... 451W Palliative Care...... 421W Strategic Defence and Security Review ...... 451W Pharmacy...... 422W Territorial Army ...... 452W Thromboembolism...... 423W Unmanned Air Vehicles ...... 452W

EDUCATION...... 468W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 398W Academies...... 468W Criminal Records Bureau...... 398W Academies: Finance ...... 468W Immigration Controls: France ...... 398W Academies: Greater London ...... 475W Members: Correspondence ...... 398W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 477W Police: Crime Prevention...... 398W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 477W UK Border Agency ...... 399W Free Schools...... 477W Members: Correspondence ...... 477W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 389W Schools: Buildings...... 478W Members: Childcare Vouchers ...... 389W Schools: Repairs and Maintenance ...... 478W Sittings...... 390W Special Educational Needs...... 479W Teachers: Armed Forces...... 479W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 441W Teachers Pensions ...... 479W Developing Countries: EC Aid...... 441W Teachers: Qualifications...... 480W Economic Growth: Finance ...... 442W Teachers: Science and Mathematics ...... 480W Haiti: Earthquakes...... 442W Young People: Liverpool...... 480W Overseas Aid...... 442W

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 399W JUSTICE...... 481W Carbon Emissions...... 399W Coroners and Justice Act 2009 ...... 481W Departmental Publications ...... 399W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 481W Energy: Carbon Emissions...... 399W Homicide ...... 481W Fuel Poverty...... 400W Judges: Public Appointments ...... 482W Renewable Energy...... 401W Legal Aid: Mental Health ...... 483W Renewable Technology...... 401W Magistrates Courts: Nottinghamshire...... 483W Tidal Power...... 402W Offenders: Incentives and Earned Privilege Wards in Gateshead ...... 402W Scheme...... 484W Offenders: Rehabilitation ...... 487W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Offenders: Women ...... 487W AFFAIRS...... 403W Prisoners: Sentencing ...... 487W Asbestos...... 403W Prisons: Reform ...... 488W Bees...... 403W Reoffenders...... 488W Common Agricultural Policy ...... 403W Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings...... 403W Departmental Publications ...... 404W PRIME MINISTER ...... 393W Environment Agency: Apprentices...... 405W Domestic Visits ...... 393W Fisheries...... 405W Flood Control...... 406W SCOTLAND...... 389W Foxes...... 406W Cross Border Cooperation: Tourism ...... 389W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 459W TREASURY—continued Airports: Public Lavatories ...... 460W Public Sector: Swansea...... 429W Alloy Wheels...... 460W Tax Rates and Bands: Carlisle...... 429W Blue Badge Scheme...... 461W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 461W WALES...... 392W Cycling...... 461W Prisons ...... 392W Cycling: Finance ...... 462W Public Expenditure...... 393W Cycling: Railways...... 463W Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings...... 464W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 443W Departmental Sick Leave ...... 463W Equality Act 2010 ...... 443W Driving Tests: Qualifications...... 464W Equality: Court Orders ...... 443W EU Law...... 465W Females: Low Incomes...... 443W First Great Western: Electrification ...... 465W Human Trafficking: Port Security ...... 459W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 429W M4 Bus Lane ...... 459W Businesses ...... 429W Mersey Gateway Bridge Scheme ...... 460W Children: Maintenance ...... 430W Motorways and Major Trunk Roads Programme .. 460W Disability Living Allowance: Care Homes ...... 432W Network Rail: Scotland...... 465W Employment and Support Allowance: Scotland..... 432W Ports ...... 465W Employment Schemes: North East...... 433W Rail Fare Increases ...... 459W Health and Safety Executive: Industrial Health Railways: North West ...... 465W and Safety...... 434W Road Safety: Finance...... 466W Health and Safety: Licensed Premises...... 435W Thameslink ...... 467W Housing and Council Tax Benefit: Fraud...... 435W Thameslink: Rolling Stock...... 467W Housing Benefit ...... 436W Transport: Finance...... 467W Housing Benefit: Children ...... 436W Housing Benefit: Poverty ...... 437W TREASURY ...... 424W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 437W Annuities...... 424W Incapacity Benefits...... 437W Endowment Mortgages: Scotland ...... 425W Independent Living 2006 Fund ...... 438W Financial Markets...... 425W Members: Correspondence ...... 438W Financial Services Authority...... 425W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 438W Members: Correspondence ...... 426W Personal Income ...... 438W Personal Savings ...... 426W Public Expenditure...... 439W Public Expenditure...... 426W Social Security Benefits...... 439W Public Expenditure: Children...... 428W Social Security Benefits: Fines ...... 439W Public Expenditure: Public Consultation ...... 428W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 440W Public Sector: Pensions ...... 428W Winter Fuel Payments: British Nationals Abroad.. 441W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 28 October 2010

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CONTENTS

Thursday 28 October 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 443] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Transport Minister for Women and Equalities

Business of the House [Col. 465] Statement—(Sir George Young)

Local Growth White Paper [Col. 480] Statement—(Vince Cable)

Comprehensive Spending Review [Col. 499] General debate

European Arrest Warrants and Extradition [Col. 583] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Privacy and the Internet [Col. 143WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 13WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 389W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 7MC]