Second Series1R.55 Friday, April 22, 1960 Vaisakha 2, 1882 (Saka)
/2.6$%+$ '(%$7(6
Tenth Session Second /RN6DEKD
/2.6$%+$6(&5(7$5,$7 New Delhi CONTENTS LSccond Series, Vol. XLIII-April 18 to 29, 1960/Chaitra 29 to Vaisakha 9, 1882 (Saka»)
CoLUMNS
No. 51-Monda.), Aprl? 18, 1960/Chaitra 29, 1882 (Saka)-
OraI Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1542 to 1544, 1546, 1548 to 1552, 1555 to 1563 and 1565 . • 12147-86 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1545, 1547, 1553, 1554, 1564, and 1566 . Unstarred Questions Nos. 2199 to 2261 P aperl laid on the Table 12231-32 President's assent to Bill 12232 Demands for Excess Grants, 1957-58 (Railways) I 12232 Estimates Committee - Eighty-Sixth Report 12232 Correction of reply to haIf-an-hour discussion held on 10-3-60 12232-33 Statement re: Food Supply position in Mizo Hills District of Assam 12233-38 Election to Committees-
I. Estimates Committee 12239 2. Public Accounts Committee 12239-40 Correction of Statement by Minister 12240-48 Public Accounts Committee- Association of Members of Rajya Sabha Representation of the People (Amendment) Bill-Introduced Business Advisory Committee- Fiftieth Report. Demands for Grants- Ministry of Finance . 12250-384 tt.ppropriation (NO.2) Bill-Introduced 12385-86 Daily Digest 12387-92
No. 52-Tuesday, April 19, 1960/Chaitra 30, 1882 (Saka)- Members Sworn 12393 Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1567 to 1569, 1571 to 1574, 1576 to 1578, 1580 and 1582 to 1584 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1570, 1575, 1579, 1581 and 1585 to 1590 12428-33 UDltarred Questions Nos. 2262 to 2310 12433-59 Point of Procedure- Defence Audit Report Papers laid on the Table Public Accounts Committee- Twenty-seventh Report Statement re: Movement of Civilian Traffic of India and Pakistan ii
COLUMNS Appropriation (NO.2) Bill, 1960. 12465-'10 Motion to consider 12465-'70 Clauses I to 3 12470 Motion'to Pass . 12470 Bombay Reorgtni~ation Bill 12471--632 Motion to consider, as reported by .Toint Committee 12471-546 Clauses 2 to 96, the Schedules, Clause I and the Long Title 12547-604 Motion to Pass 12604-32 Daily Digest 12633-36 No. 53-Wednesday, April 20, 1960/Chaitra 31, 1882 (Saka)- Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1592, 1593, 16II, 1594 to 1597, 1599, 1600 1602 to 1604 and 1607 to 1609 12637-.75 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1591, 1598, 1601, 1605, 1606, 1610 and 1612 to 1614 12675- 80 Unstarred Questions Nos. 23II to 2374. 12680-720 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance . 12721-27,12736 I. Election to South Calcutta parliamentary constituency. 12721-27 2. Closure of hosiery factories in Ludhiana 12736 Re: Motion for Adjournment- Alleged failure to meet demands of Manipur people 12727-29 Re: Motion of Privilege 12729-34 Papers laid on the Table 12734-35 Message from Rajya Sabha 12735 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Sixty-third Report 12735 Estimates Committee- Seventy-fifth Report 12735-36 Finance Bill- Motion to consider 12736- 898 Daily Digest 12899-904 No. 54-Thursday, Apri121, 1960/Vaisakha I, 11182 (Saka)- Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1615 to 1629 1290:;- 41 Short Notice Question No. 13 12941-46 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1630 to 1638 12946-52 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2375 to 2416 J2952-78 Motions for Adjournment- Jeeps case. 12978-93 Papers laid on the Table 12993 Message from Rajya Sabha 12993 The Hindu Marriages (Validation of Proceedings) Bill- Laid on the Table as passed by Rajya Sabha 12994 Estimates Committee- Eighty-eighth Report 12994 Election to Committee - Indian Central Sugarcane Committee 12994-95 Estate Duty (Amendment) Bill-IntrOduced 12995 iii
COLUMNS Finance Bill, 1960 • 12995---13160 Motion to consider .12995--13112 Clauses 2 to 23, the Schedules, and clause I • 13II2-25 Motion to Pass . 13125-60 Business Advisory Committee- Fifty-first Report 13160 Daily Digest • 13161-66 No. 55-Friday, April 22, 1960/V aisallha 2, 1882 (Saka) - Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1639 to 1653 Written Answers to Questtons- Starred Questions Nos. 1654 to 1664 13200-06 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2417 to 2487 13206-45 Papers laid on the Table 13245-46 Public Accounts Committee- Twenty-eighth Reporth Estimates Committee- Eighty-seventh Report Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importancc- Murder of Police Officer in Delhi 13247-48 Business of the House . 13248-51 Reserve Bank of India (Amendment) Bill-Introduced 13251 Business Advisory Committee- Fifty-first Report 13252-55 Resolution re: Appointment of a Committee to review rate of dividend Payable by Railway Undertaking to General Revenues. 13255-95 Demands for Excess Grants (Railways), 1957-58 13295-324 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Sixty-third Report 13324 Resolution Re: Establishment of various Defence Councils-Negatived 13325-36 Resolution Rc: Withdrawal of Kashmir Case from U.N.O.-Withdrawn . 13336--13420 Discussion re: Photographs of voters of Calcutta South-West Parliamentary Constituency 13420- 62 Daily Digest 13463-70 No. 56-Monday, April, 25, 1960/Vaisakha 5, 1882 (Saka)- Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1665 to 1670, 1672, 1674, 1675, 1679 to 1683 and 1685 . 13471-5n Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1671, 1673, 1676 to 1678, 1684 and 1686 to 1691. I35II--16 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2488 to 2533 13516-47 Re: Motion for Adjournment 13548 Papers laid on the Table 13548-49 Messages from Rajya Sabha 13549-50 nstimates Committee- Eighty-fifth Report . 13550 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Strike by miea dealers in Bihar . 13550-53 Statement re: Finance Minister's reply to General Discussion on Budget. 13553-77 Demands for Excess Demands (Railways) 1957-58 13577-93· iv
CoLU.Ml Representation of the People (Amendment) Bill Motion to consider 13593-639 Motion re: Annual Report on the Working and Administration of Companies Act. '. 13639-86 Daily Digest 13687-92
No. 57-Tuuday, April 26, 1960/V aisakha 6, 1882 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1692, 1694, 1695, 1697 to 1699 and 1701 to 1707 , 13693-728 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1693, 1696, 1700 and 1708 to 1719 13728�37 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2534 to 2607 13737 ,; • 1 Motion for Adjoumment- Situation in Manipur 13781-91 :Papers laid on the Table 13791-805 Message from Rajya Sabha 15806 Committee on Absence of Members Twentieth Report 13Bo6 Estimates Committee- Ninetieth·Report 13806 Appropriation (Railway.s) No. 3 Bill-Introduced 13807 Representation of the People (Amendment) Bill 13807-86 Motion to consider 16807-59 Clauses 2 and 5 and 1 13859-85 Motion to pass 13885 Estate Duty (Amendment) Bill 13885-907 Motion to consider 13885-904 Clauses 2, 3 and 1 13904-05 Motion to pass 13905-07 Reserve Banlc of India (Amendment l Bi II 13908-32 Motion to consider 13908-32 Clauses 2 and 1 13932 Motion to pass 13932 Business of the House 13932-33 Half-an-Hour discussion re: Interception of coal wagons on Railways 13933-54 Daily Digest 13955-62 No. 58-Wednesday, April 27, 1960/Vaisakha 7, 1887. (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions-- Starred Questions Nos. 1720 to 1732 , 1732A · and 1733 13963-98 Short Notice Question No. 14 13998-14000 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1734, 1735, 1735A, 1736 to 1752, 1752A 1753, 1753A, 1754, 1755, 1757 to 1759, 1759A, 1760 to 1768, 1768A, and 1769 to 1777. 14000-30 Unstarrcd Questions Nos. 2608 to 2684, 2686 to 2752, 2754 to .1.781, 2781A to 278II. . 14030- 134 Papers laid on the Table 14135, 14138 Point re: Discussion on Sino-Indian relations 14135-37 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Sixty-fourth Report . 14138 Estimates Committee- Ninety-third and Ninety-fourth Reports v
COLUMNS Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Road Transport Operators strike in Bombay 14139-43 .\ppropriation (Railways) 3 No. Bill. 1960-passed . 14143-44 Supreme Court (Number of Judges) Am.cu.dment Bill 14144-236 Motion to consider, as passed by Rajya Sabha 14143-232 C1auscs 2 and I 14232-36 Motion to pass 14236 Indian Boilers (Amendment) Bill 14236-57 Motion to consider, as passed by Rajya Sabha 14236-56 CblUscs 2 to 21 and I 14257 MonoD to pass 14257 Delhi Primary Education Bill- Motion for concurrence to refer to Joint Committee ~ Half-an-Hour Discussion re: Doubling of Vijayavada-Gudur Section 14262-72 Daily Digest 14273-84 No. 59-Thursday, Aprii28, 1960/Vaisakha 8,' 1882 (Saka)- Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1778 to 1785, 1787 to 1789, 1791, 1793, 1793-B, 1794 to 1796 and 1798 14285-320 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1782-A, 1786, 1790, 1792, 1793-A, 1797, 1798-A, 1799 to 1801, 1801-A, 1802, 1802-A, 1802-AA, 1802-B, 1803 to 1808, 1808-A, 1809-A, 1810, 1810-A, I81a-B, 18n to 1814. IttI4-A and 1814-B. 14320-40 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2782 to 2870, 2870A, 2870-H, 2870-C, 2870-D. 14340-·99 Papers laid on the Table 14399--408 Minutes of Parliamentary Committees 14409 Estimates Committee- Ninety-second and Ninety-fifth Reports Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance-- Reported danger to water transport on Brahmputra 14410-12 BUSlDeJl8 of _ House . 14413,14414-15 DeJhi Primary Education BiII 14413-14. 14415-508 Motion for concurrence to refer Lo Joint Committee 14415-508 Children Bill- Motion for concurrence to refer to Joint Committee 14508- 31 Hindu Marriages (Validation of Proceedings) Bill as passed by Rajya Sabha . 14532-35 Motion to consider and pass 14532-35 Half-an-Hour Discussion rc: Bolani Ore Mines 14535-50 Daily Digest 14551 -60 No. 6o-Friday, April 29, 1960/Vaisakha 9, 1882 (Saka)- Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1815 to 1828 and 1832 14561-96 Short Notice Questions Nos. 15 and 16 14597-600 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 1829 to 1831, ~ 1833, 1834. I 834A, 1834B, 1835 to 1839. 1841 to 1847. 1847A, 1848 and 1850 to 1852 14600-14 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2871 to 2949 and 2951 to 2975 14614-85 ~ Motion for Adjournment 14686-87 ~a er laid on the Table 14687-91 ::omnuttee on Absence of Members- Minutes LOK SABHA DEBATES·
13168 LOK SABHA sary to assess the oil possibilities of the region.] Friday, April 22, 1960lVisakha 2, 1882 (Saka) ~~ ~ ~ r rifi1lf !fiT m fif;1rr '11fT a ~ ~ The Lok Sabha met at Eleven ~ lfT f.rnr ~ tR ~ m !fiT of the Clock. ~ fcrm ~ lift ~ m IR ffiji li1 ~ [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] ~ ~ ~t ~ ~ r ~ ? ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS t ~~ srq it ffi;r rilP ~ "0 {o ~ : 'I"'4T ~ +1 iifT ~ fit;ln 'I'1iT ~ ~ SI"flf ~ IfiT r~ ~ m : m-vr ~ f'l1f if ~~ ~ I} ~ tt~ .. ~~~ wrm:l em '111: ~ '1ft ~ ~ ~ t ~ f'hdl ... iQ ~ !fiT qm ~ 'lit t ~ 'tit qf t m Iti\" ~ ~ ~ I 'f1n: if ~ ~i ~ ~ ~ ~~ t "'"" iliA mflfiiji ~ aT ~ i ~ ~ IfiT ~ ~ t txt ~ artififiQ r~ ~~ ~~ ~ R ~ ~ ~~ ,,'i 0 ~ ~ t ~~ 11 ~ ifflA' ijiT WIT ~i ~ ~ ~~ t fir;1fT ~ Ai m ~it fiji : \I'A ~ ~R ~ lfT GJ;rt' ~ ~ it ~ r~~ ~ ~ (Cfi) t ctr srRr ;i" ~ RR Ii, ~ IfiT t(Iti'lft- ~ ~ ~ ~~~ !fiT ;;IT m'lfilf "ffl ~ Ifi\UT ~ ;i" ~~ flft;rq !fi{q I 'IT, ~ ~~ ~ ~R ~ srfTfu ~ ~ ; Shri Basappa: May I know whe- ~ ther we have able men in sufficient ~ ~ ri~ it: i~ fif,if numbers for doin g this survey work and also proper equipment for this ~ ~ ~ fl!fiif tR fm ctT 'TIm ? work? WA ~ ~ r q,n (.n ~o to Shrl K. D. Malavly.: Yes, Sir. ~ : (Cfi) ~ ~oo ~ t There are good and sufficiently able ~ ~ i m ~~ ~ 00 men to carry out such a work in tfi:- country and they are doing it. ~ ijiT ~ if ~~ ~ (Geo- loaical traversing ) f'fillT ~ ~ I Shrl Bishwanath Roy: May I know whether any step has been ~ ~~ ijiT ~ ~ i i i n ..., taken by the Geological Survey of India for searching oil in the basin of ;;rr;:r;f t ~ ~~ ~~ t mq' Rapti-Ghogra-Gandak where some- mq' '>niT m ijifqjT m \I i ill II ..... ~ I thing like oil is found in the water? [(a) About 100 sq. miles of detailed Shri K. D. Malavlya: I have not mapping and same 200 linear miles of much information about the latt.r geological traversing have been car- part of the remarks made by the hon. ried out. Member that some oil has been found (b) Much more work, including in the water. So far as the geololi- geophysical IIUl\Veys, will be necea- cal lurvey for oil in this basin is 299 (Ai) LSD-1 Oral Answers APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answers concerned, it is not possible to carry districts, some preliminary work is out any investigation because the going on apart from that in the thick entire area is covered by very thick alluvium down below. The German alluvium. All that is possible is team is working at it. All this cons- some geophycial investigation by titutes early and preliminary stages to sound methods. We have already eliminate certain factors which might started and some good size of work go against oil possibilities. is being done in connection with geophysical investigations in that area Ijlmport Licences to Bombay Firms referred to by my hon. friend in the Eastern U.P. The G"rman team in *1640 . r Shr!+ Ram Krlshan Gupta: association with our experts is carry- 'l Shrl Madhusudan Rao: ing out some geophysical investiga- tion at present. Will the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to refer to the reply given Shri C. D. Pande: May I know if to Starred Question No. 460 on the 1st the Government is aware that some December. 1959 and state: four or five years back, there were (a) whether o ~rn ent have reports from the geological depart- eX refer to the reply given to Starred Dr. K. L. Sbrimall: The statement Question No. 840 on the 14th Decem- give:; the information about this ber, 1959 and state: matter also. The hon. Member would see that the Physics Committee would (a) the progress made by the meet a little later than June, 1960. Expert Committee constituted by The reports are not expected to be University Grants Commission for ready before October, 1960. The in- assessing existing position in regard formation is given in the statement. to teaching and research at Post- graduate level in various science sub- Shri D. C. Sharma: In view of the jects in Indian Universities; and fact that the Government of India is (b) when their reports arc likel) going to appoint a commission to en- to be submitted? quire into the teaching of science all along the line, from the primary The Minister of Education (Dr. K. stage to the post graduate stage, is it L. Shrimali): (a) and (b). A state- not sheer waste that these committees ment is laid on the Table of the should be appointed by the UGC to Sabha. deal with these things? STATEMENT Dr. K. L. Sbrimali: No, Sir. There The Expert Committee appointed by is no wastage in this. The commis- the University Grants Commission for sion which is proposed to be appoint- the development of Geology and ed is expected to survey the whole Applied Geology has submitted its re- field of science, right from the ele- port to the Commission in February, mentary to the university stage. 1960. The Report 'of the Committee These committees, as the hon. Mem- was considered by the University ber would see, are concerned with Grants Commission and the recom- the evaluation of teaching in the mendations made by the Committee post-graduate departments and in were approved for implementation by scientific research departments. the Commission" in its meeting held Therefore, there is no likelihood of on the lthl12th February, 1960. any duplication and in any case the work which would be done by these 2. Three other Expert Committees committees will also be useful for the on Zoology, Bio-chemistry and Mathe- commission. matics are to hold their last meeting soon after summer vacation by which Shri Warior: It is stated in the time their draft reports are expected statement that the report of the com- to be ready. mittee was considered by the U.G.C. and the recommendations made 3. The Botany Committee is meeting , therein were approved for implemen- in June, 1960 and the Physics Com- tation. May I know what the recom- mittee a little later, but their reports mendations are and how far they are not expected to be ready before have been implemented? October, 1960. The Review Commit- tee on Chemistry has still to begin Dr. K. L. Sbrlmali: I will place the its work. report in the Library for the benefit 4. It is planned to discuss the draft of the hon. Members. reports of these Committees in Semi- Shri Narasimhan: May I know whe- nars of the teaohers concerned to be ther the recommendations on geology held in the months of November and and applied geology involve fresh December, 1960. expenditure and if so, to what extent? Sbrl D. C. Sharma: From the state- ment I find that some work has been Dr. K. L. ShrlmaU: Yes, Sir. Natu- done on some subjects. May I know rally some expenditure is involved. I if any work has been done in rerard will place all these details along with to Physies alllo? the report that I am placing. _. 13173 Oral t t ~ APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answers I -:- •. ~... ~...... Shri lIasappa: It is stated that the (b) what would be the cbst of the Expert Committee on Chemistry has construction; not yet begun its work. May I know why it has not yet begun its work? (c) whether it will be a multi-stor- ied building; and Dr. K. L. Shrlmall: This is a com- mittee appointed by the University (d) whether any other denartments Grants Commission. The members or offices will be located there? are busy persons. They are not whole-time members of the Commis- The ni~ter of Sclentiftc Research sion. They have to do this work in and Cultural Affairs (Shrl Humayun Kablr): (a) Ye!l, Sir. addition to works which they are al- ready doing in various fields. In any (b) The cost is estimated to be case, the University Grants Commis- Rs. 24'70 lakhs. sion is aware of the situation and· they are expecting to submit this re- (c) Yes, Sir. port as early as possible. (d) The question of allocation of space in the building is under consi- Shri Rem Baroa: In view of the deratIon. fact that co-ordination between the research conducted in the universities Shri S. C, Samanfa: Is it not a fact and non-university instituions is to that the Anthropological Department be efTected or is being efTected, may have e o~ite objects collected by I know what positive !lteps the Gov- them with this museum; if so, may I ernment have taken to co-ordinate know whether a separate office for the research conducted in the Delhi the Anthropological Department will University, for instance, leading to be made? the discovery of nuclear particles with the research conducted!n the Shri Humayun Kabir: This building same line by the Atomic Energy De- will be mainly for the spirit collec- partment etc? tions of the Zoological Survey. Spirit collections of all the other sec- Dr. K. L. Shrimall: Well, Sir, there tions of the museum will also be is consultation between the various housed there. Anthropological and bodies at all levels. The Council of other departments may require addi- Scientific Research is in touch with tional space elsewhere. the universitie$. There are various representatives of the universities on Shri Raghunath Singh: May I know the Council. There is regular consul- whether the office of the Asiatic tation between the various agenC'ies, Society will be located in the same the national laboratories, the Atomic building or it will find space some- Energy Department, the Council of where else. Scientific Research and the Univer- sity Grants Commission with regard Shri Humayun Kablr: The Asiatic to the co-ordination of research. Society is quite d;f'ferent from the Indian Museum. It will have its own indian MUIleDDl, Calcutta premises. Shri M. B. Thakore: May I know r Shri+ S. C. Samanta: whether the Government intend to ·UIC!. l Shrl 8ubodh Ransda: build such museums in Bombay or in Delhi? Will the Minister of Sclentiftc Re- I!Ie'\rch and Cultural Affairs be pleased Shri Humaynn Kabir: There is the to state: National Museum in Delhi which will (a) whether the construction work also be a great multi-purpose museum. of the fire-proof building for the In Bombay there is already a Indian Museum. Calcutta bas started; museum. Oral Answers 13175 V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) OTal Answet"s 1317b Shri Sadhan Gupta: May I know keep in abeyance expenditul1e on how many storeys this bWlding wIll items which are not immediately have and what wlll be the tioor space productive? avaIlable? Sbri Bumayun Kablr: I am very Shri Bumayun Kabir: The building happy to say that the Government will. be of SIX Storeys. 1 have not have taken a very enlightened vIew. calculated the 11uor space, but it can For these collections which are abso- be found out from the cost. lutely priceless and which if once de- stroyed will be a loss not only tu Sbri B. K. Gaikwad: May I know India but to the whole world, after a whether such a tire-proof bUIlding for great deal of effort we have been able the Indian Museum has ever been to persuade the Government to re- constructed anywhere m IndIa or this move all bans and the permission wu is the first 01 itS kind'! Secondly, given sometime back. may I know If o'tiCl!::; are located there in this fire-proof buildmg, it will be Small Blast Furnace, Barbll OUt 01 danger? ·1643. Sbri Cblntamoni Panipoah1: Sbri Bumayun Kabir: The need for Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and such a fire-proof bUl.d.ng has been Fuel be pleased to state: felt for a very long tIme. I believe, (a) whether the small blast furnace almost for 30 or 35 years there has operating at Barbi! in Orissa has been constant demand that for these produced pig iron by now; invaluable cullect.ons ot zoologIcal spe<':lm"ns there shuuld be a pruper (b) if so, the quantity of pii iron fire-proof building, m that bUlldmg produced so far; and then;! may be certain other areas wnlch may be used fur office purposes, (c) what is the cost of production but the major empnasls will be on of pig iron in small blast furnaces? the! sections which wlll preserve these The Parliamentary Secretary to the collec lions. Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel (Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha): Shri P. K. Deo: May I know if this fore, some small blast furnaces in pn· is the only small blast furnace in this vate sector were encouraged. Of country or there are some more? course, those who have invested May I also know if the Government money will also consider whetner are contemplating to gIve some more they will be able to produce the thIng licences in the Third Plan period to at a cheaper rate. Unless the produc- put up more small blast furnaces in tion goes on for a pretty long tim!;, the country? this is not the stage when we can say ~ t a what will be the cost of pro- Shri GajeDdra Prasad Sinha: There Quction. are many other small blast furnaces in this country, but I am not in a posi- Shri Supakar: May I know whe- tion just now to give the exact figure ~i r there are any demands from because the figure has already been thOse areas where there are no large given in this House many times. As t~ o it of iron ore or cooking 1'001 far as the suggestion that there for establishment of such blast fur- should be increased number of fur- ~ a e if so, what al'e those areas? naces is concerned of course, there is no difficulty if applications are forth- Shri Gajendra r~ Sinha: Actu- coming for that. ally permission has been given tv Shri Kasliwal: The Parliamentary Madras, Bombay, Onssa and otlld Secretary just now said that the cost a ~ for starting blast furnaces as of production in this furnace is much and when demands came. In many higher than that in bigger plants. place>', for instance Madras, therE' al e May I know how, then, these factories iarge deposits of iron are as well as will dispose of their pig iron? coal. But there we are trying to have a different type whIch is a low Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: I have shaft furnace. That is a different already said that at present we have thing on which experiment is going not been able to fully assess what on and the success of it will depend will be the cost of production. But, upon the experiments. But as far as any way, on the assessment made by the demand is concerned, of course the company for three months of there is demand from the areas where working the figure is slightly higher there is larger deposit of coal as well than even the selling price. The sel- as iron ore. ling price today is Rs. 225 a ton for pig iron while the retention price Shri Panigrahi: May I know whe- which we give to other big producers ther the Government has formulated is near about Rs. 159 a ton. any plan for having small blast fur- naces and facilitating thereby the ex- Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: May port of pig iron instead of exporting I know why Government permitted iron ore, So as to have better prices? starting of this small blast furnace when their team which went to China Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: We to study the working of small blast have already got vast deposits of iron furnaces in that country found that are and, as the han. Member may be the working and cost of production in aware, we have entered into an agree- that country were not very economic? ment with Japan for the export of two plus four, that is, six million tons Shrl Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Just of iron are. Han. Member wants to now I stated that up till now we have know why iron are is sent and not not been able to assess what actuall.)" pig iron. But then, We are also in- will be the cost of working. Anyway, creasing the production of pig iron it was conceded that the disadvantage and also of steel in this country. We in cost of production will be offset by are not lagging behind. the higher freight which one has t.) pay for areas which are away from Shri Jaipal Sin&"h: Near the Parlia- the main producing centres. There· mentary Secretary's constituency, the 13179 Oral Answers VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Oral Answers 13180 ancient Asurs are smelting iron ore Joint Councils are to be formed in in the old way. May I know whether Central Secretariat and other sub- t'le Parliamentary Secretary is doing ordinate offices; and anything to intensify their production? (b) if so, when? Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: I The Minister 01 Home AJraln could not follow the question. (Shri G. B. Pant): (a) and (b): The Mr. Speaker: Small blast furnaces, matter is under consideration and a in the traditional method adopted by decislon is likely to be reached short- certain people. ly. Shri Jaipal Singh: The ancient Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know Asurs are smelting it. They are in whether it is a fact that similar staff his constituency. councils are already working in these eSLablishmc!n.1: in the SecretarIat and, Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: In if so, may I know the number of that respect, the hon. Member has such councils func.ioning at present? better experience than I have. Mr. Speaker: Anything that smacks Shri G. B. Pant: The staff councils of personality ought to be avoided: are working in every Ministry in the Secretariat and there is also a co- Shri Goray: I would like to know ordinating committee consisting of whether. in view of our experience in the officers of certain Ministries who China or the information obtained are mainly concerned with staff from China that these small blast fur- questions. naces are not economic, the Govern- ment have any scheme to find out the Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know cost accouniing of these things and to whether it is a fact that in March, see that these blast furnaces do not 1958, a meeting was convened in multiply before they find out the which the secretaries of all staff actual cost? councils and the official representa- tives were there and they took cer- The Minister of Mines and Oil (Shri tain decisions and whether it is a K. D. Malaviya): These questions are fact that these decisions have not., very much before the Government been implemented? and require some long-term observa- tion, researches and cost examination Shri G. B. Pant: These staff coun- before We come to any specific deci- cils were formed, some of them sIon. early enough. Staff councils were set up in every Ministry in 1957. Shri M. B. Thakore: May I know About the hon. Members reference to whether iron scrap is melted in the 1958, I cannot say anything definite small blast furnaces and, if so, what about any particular meeting, because is the quantity'! there have been, I think, a large number of meetings since. It is Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Most difficult to say what was done in any of the iron scraps are melted in the particular meeting. electric furnaces which are slightly different from the blast furnaces. Shrl S. M. Banerjee: In reply to part (a) 01 the question, the hon. Joint CouncUs In Cen.tral Secretariat Minister stated that "the matter is -1644. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will under consideration". May I know the Minister of Home Afraln be / when a final decision is likely to be pleased to state: taken regarding the formation of Whitley Councils? (a) whether in accordance with the recommendations of the Pay Shri G. B. Pant: About the forma- Commission Whitley Councila and tion or non-formation? 13 181 Oral AnsweTl APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answer. Sbrl S. M. Banerjee: About the an air-conditioned plant at Debra formation. Since it is said that it is Dun? under consideration; I take it that something is being done. Th Minister or SclentUlc Research and Cultural Mairs (Shrl BumayUD Shrl G. B. Pant: I have said "short- Kabir): I regret to say that that is a ly". Shortly means that it would fact, and we have therefore taken it not take very long. in hand and we hope it will be done very soon. Contour Topopaphical Map' Sbri P. K. Deo: I could not under- ·1645. Shrl P. K. Deo: Will the stand the meaning of "due course" Minister of Scientific Research and given in reply to part (b) of the Cultural Mairs be pleased to state: question. May I know the defini- tion of "due course"? ~a whether contour topographical maps are printed and made available Shri Bumayun Kabir: We hope that for the entire country, by the Survey the entire process can be carried out of India; in about 20 years' time. (b) if not, whether those maps are going to be printed; Shri Palaniyandi: There is a vast difference in the contour maps of (c) whether survey of those areas States when compared to the contour has been completed on the foot-pound maps of the Government of India. system; May I know whether the Government will come forward to clarify these (d) if so, when; and differences and also get the State (e) the main obstacle in the print- maps when they are preparing the ing of those maps? Indian maps? The Deputy Minister or Scientific Shri Bumayun Kabir: When the Research and Cultural Mairs (Dr Indian maps are prepared, obviously M. M. Das): (a) Yes, Sir. But thE the States are included. They are modern contour maps exist only fOl not outside India! 84 per cent of the total area of the Sbrimati Renu Chakravartt,.: The country. difficulty is not only with topogra- (b) The remaining 18 per cent area phical maps but there is great diffi- covered by old style uncontoured culty for printin&, our maps. The maps will be surveyed with contours Atlas Organisation in Calcutta has and printed on Metric System in due been asking for a separate press for eourse. this. May I know whether it is going to be expedited and whether (c) Yes, Sir, but without contours. that press can also cater to this re- (d) Prior to 1903. quirement? (e) The chief obstacle to the com- Shri Bwnayun Kablr: That ques- pletion of the contour survey is tion does not arise out of this main shortage of the highly skilled staff question. We shall deal with the required, and the specialised equip- National Atlas Organisation in a ment needed. separate question which .. there today. 8hrI P. K. Deo: May I know if it is not a fact that the printing work Shri Thanu Pilla!: What is the area is greatly hampered due to t~e non- which has not been surveyed? installation of photogrammetric equipment which has been procured Sbri Bumayun Kablr: This 18 per from the TCM authorities and cent of the area covers ro ~ because we were not able to put up about 200,000 sq. milea. ~ Oral Answe?" VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Oral Answers 13184 SIlrI Thana Pllla1: In which part able to U.S. Government for its own of the country does it lle7 uses. Shri Buma1UD Kabir: I ask for notice. (c) No Sir. The rice will be im- Ported by the Government of ludia PL 4S0 on Government account. + Shri Ra,hunath Sin,h: May I know r Shrimatl RenD ~ wnat wiH be the transportaWoll -1646 J UDa.kravartty: charges of these commodlties and • \ Shri Chintamom may I know whether they will be L Panigrahi: transported by Indian ships? Will the Minister of Finance be pleased to state; Shri B. R. Bha,at: The transporta- (a) what are the terms of the sup- tion charges are gIven in the agfee· plementary agreement PL 480 siiuerl ment. I think it would be about by lndla with USA for supply of 0.8 million dollars for these kinds of ncei commodities to be shipped. Accord- ing to the arran&ement, 50 per cent (b) whether it is a fact that 5 per has to be brought in by American cent proceeds out of thIS will not bill ships. The American rates are hia:h- avaIlable lor public sector industrlcl; er, but they are subsidised so as to and meet the world rates. Even for the (c) whether the additional GO,OOO remaining 50 per cent which can be metric tons of milled rice to be made imported by Indian ships, we ita ve avaIlable by USA will also be res- not got tonnage. So, only a part of tricted for trade with private busi- that is imported in Indian ships. The point is that whatever we can cany ness in food&rains and Dot for the Government of India? through our own ships we carry. The Deputy Minister of Finance Shrimati Renu Chakravartt7: How (Shri B. R. Bhagat): (a) and (b). A much the milled rice will work out copy of the supp.ementary agreement to after paying freight etc.? SIgned on 21-3-11160 is available in the Parliament Library. It provid... Shrl B. R. Bha,at: I require notice for the purchase by India of auout for that question. 60,000 metric tons of rice from USA against rupee payment. The dollar Shri Chlntamonl Panirrahi: What cost of the commodity p.us 50 per is the rate of interest that India is cent ocean transportation cost, esti- paying On this PL 480 loan? mated at $7.77 million, would be met Shri B. R. Bharat: A part of it is by the United States Government. loan and a part of it is grant. All the EIghty per cent of the rupee payments details are iiven in the agree e ~ • would be made available to the Gcv- copy of which is available to the hon. ernment of India as loans and grantll Members. to finance projects of economic deve- lopment. Out of the remaining 20 Mr. Speaker: Is it avai"able in the per cent of the rupee proceeds, 5 Library or is it ioing to be laid on per cent have been earmarked ror the Table? loans by the Export-Import Bank, Shrl B. R. Bhapt: It is available i. Washing:on to American and Indian the Library. industries in the private sector. The pnor concurrence of Government of Mr. Speaker: Then hon. Members India is obtained before any such will look into that. loan is given by the Export-Import Bank. The remaining US per cent Il1 Shrl Sadhan Gupta: Ma,. I know the rupee proceeds would be a vail- whether this stipulation about 3 per 1 Oral Answers 13 85 APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answers 13 186 cent being made available to the pri- Shri B. R. Shagat: I have not Seen vate sector in India was put in at the that article. I am not in a posItion instance of the United States Gov- now to compare the two prices. If ernment and, if so, how are they the hon. Member asks a specific ques- interested in OUr private sector? tion, I will look into it. Shri B. R. Bbagat: The whule Shri B. K. Gaikwad: Are Govern- amount is authorised by the Amel'ican ment aware of the fact that the private Congress. As is well known, there busine;ss people always sell foodstuffs is the Cooley Amendment which in the black market? provides that up to 25 per cent have to be earmarked for help to the Shri B. K. Bhagat: We take ample American or Indian business interests. precautions to restrict that practice. In the previous agreement a fund 8hri Chintamoni Panigrahi: May I of up to 25 per cent was provided. know whether it is a fact that the As the fund could not be fully utili- same commodities which are supplied zed, we suggested that in to India under PL 480 as free gifts are this agreement a lesser being sold in the market by certain amount should be provided. Now it interested persons? . has been reduced from 25 per cent to 5 F-r cent., because under our scheme Mr. Speaker: The same question of planning we give approval to the was asked just now. The only thing projects and this can be used only for is the han. Member did not use the Plan projects, not outside projects. 'Word "black market". But sold in the With all these restrictions, whatever market also means in the black mar_ can be given to the private sector goes ket. to that. Shri B. R. Bhag-at: The only com- Shrimati Renu Cbakravartty: May modities which can be sold are cot- I know whether the attentiOn of the ton or tobacco or wheat as agreed un- Government has been drawn to the der PL 480. report which says that in the course Carbonisation Plant in Andhra Pradesh of the next 5 or 7 years the accumula- tion in the rupee fund will be equal *1647. Shri Rami Reddy: Will the to the Central budget? If so, what Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be will be the amount of interest which pleased to state: we shall have to pay on the loan? (a) whether any investigation has Shri B. R. Bhagat: Under all the been made aboul the feasibility of set- three agreements we have so far ting up a Low Temperature Carboni- imported 800 million dollars worth of sation Plant at Kothagudium in agricultural surplus. Unless we go Andhra Pradesh; in again for a large bulk, I do not think the amoUnt under that head will (b) if so, the results of investiga- increase. As for the exact rate of tion; interest, that is given in the agree- (c) whether the views of the Singa_ ment itself. reni Collieries in the matter have been Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know ascertained and if so, what are they; whether the attention of the Govern- and ment has been drawn to an article (d) what are the prospects of set- written by Shri B. R. Shenoy in which ting up a Low Temperature Carboni- it is stated that the wheat under PL sation Plant in Andhra Pradesh? 480 costs us 40 per cent. more than Australian wheat and the rice costs The Minister of Steel Mines &; Fuel us more than 80 per cent. as compared (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) and (b). to the prevailing price of rice in The question was gone into by the Burma? Expert Committee set up by Govern- 13 187 Oral Answ8Ts V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Oral Answers 131S8 ment under the chairmanship of the could nOL be taken up for want of late Dr. J. C. Ghosh. The Committee foreign exchange. At no time was it recommended a plant at Kothagudium sald that there were lack of cesources. for the production of 0.38 million tons Why could it not be taken up durmg of soft coke, with recovery of by-pro- the Third Plan? ducts such as phenols, heavy diesel oil and road tar. 8hri K. D. Malaviya: So far as the technlcal exammatlon of the question The Regional Research Laboratory 1':; concerned, 1 have submit-ed that it at Hyderabad has also been carrying is a feaSIble scheme. With regard to on investigations on a pilot scale on the economlCS or availabillty of for- the low temperature carbonisation of e ~n excnange, tnat IS anotner ques- Kothagudium and Tandur Coals. tion. Now, perhaps the Thlrd Plan is also finding it difficult to include (C) and (d). The Andhra Pradesh such a scheme. It is not only the pro- Government, who hold the majority duction 01 soft coke but ottler bye- interest in the Singal"eni Collieries products which have the implicatIon Company Limited, have been in favour of more expenditure of money. So, of setting up this plant. But no steps consid.ering the tOLality of circums_ could be taken on this behalf due to tances, perhaps it is better to wait paucity of capital resources during the for a little more time when our current plan. The position is likely to foreign exchange and financial posi- be the same during the next plan also. tion improves. 8hri Rami Reddy: In view of the Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Are We to fact that the products of the low tem- understand that all the projects re- perature carbonisation plant are pri- lating to the Ministry of Steel, Mines mary raw materials for some of the and Fuel have been considered by the basic indusli'ies in India like dye- Planning Commission as to what are stuffs, plastic etc. do the Government to be included in the Third Plan or favour the setting up of low tempera- not? ture carbonisation plants in places en~ the industries are not yet deve- Shri K. D. Malaviya: Yes, they do loped completely? -receive consideration by the Planning Commission. Unless they give their The Minister of Mines and on (Shrl concurrence or approval, th03e K. D. Malaviya): A low temperature schemes of t..'1e Ministry of Steel, carbonisation plant to produce soft Mines and Fuel are not included in coke was considered exhaustively at a the Third Plan. time when our oil policy was not decided by the Government and they Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Are Govern- thought perhaps that a scheme for ment aware of the fact that the production of synthetic oil was neces- Andhra Pradesh Government have in- sary. Subsequent to that, the scheme cluded it in the proposals for the Third of soft coke by low temperature car- Plan? bonisation methOd was suspended mainly on account of the lack of re_ sources. Recently the Working Group Shri K. D. Malavlya: Yes, Sir. They on Fuel has recommended again to have recommended the inclusion of the Planning Commission that such a this scheme in the Plan. But the scheme should be considered, but the Planning Commission has stated t..'1at Planning Commission has expressed it may not be possible to include that its inability because of lack of re- because of scarcity of funds. The sources. Andhra Pradesh Government have in- cluded it and they have _recommended Shrl T. B. Vittal Rao: This project it strongly but the Planning Commis- was included in the Second Period but sion is not agreeable to its inclUSion. Oral Answer. APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answer, 131 9 IImdi Unl.,.et'sltr lor Soatll WTo ,,",0 \iil'To ~ r : llif qlf'r mq -1"8. Shrl Madhasadaa Rao: Will ~ r ~ f'lill'T fifo itiFITlf ~ ttl ~ i the Minister of EducatioD be pleased ~ qh: ~~ ~ i ~ t ~ ~ ~ to atate: ifCf,rqc l'fl1 WT ~ ~ i i ~ i i ~ (a' whebher it is a fact that the ~r f'lill'T I ~ ~ fiT ~ t o ~ ~~ Central Government have given up the ~ if 'mf'i ~ ~ lI'fG: ~ ~~ ~ l'fl1 idea of establishini a Hindi University for South at Hyderabad; and i i~ ~r ~ lTlfTta ~~ r ~ ~~ n~ (b) it so, the reasons therefor7 Shri S. Aramugham: One of the The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. R. recommendations of the Siksha Samiti :Sorimali): (a) and (b). The Central was to' start Hindi teachers' trainini G.:>vernment have not considered the colleges in non-Hindi-speaking areas question of establishing a Hindi Uni- to develop as also to propagate Hindi. versity for South at Hyderabad. Why can the Government not start a I would, however, like to inform the HindI teachcn' training t;:ollege in House, and I think the House is place of the university? already aware of it, that there was a proposal for the reconstitution of t ~ Dr. K. L. Shrimali: In regard to this Osmania University with Hindi as mat'er also, though the question does the medium of instruction. But since not arise out of this, I would like to the Andhra Government are not will- in;'orm the hon, Member that we have ing to accept this proposal-in fact, writ!en to all the non-Hindi-Speaking they were opposed to it--this proposal State Governments to set up Hindi was dropped. training colleges. The Government have told them that we would give 'l) "., ~ ~ : 'fll'T iiTifi)lf cent per cent assistance if they start- 1f'l'T ~ ~ iffiT-l 'tiT fitl'T 'tiC·1 f'ti t~ ed Hindi training colleges in those areas. Some proposals have corne to ~ i ~ ~~ t R ~r if,<:,f ~ ~ if f1l the Ministry but the information is t:: (4f'lI1 ftl lilT ~ a ~ ~ ofiT{ r~~ f'filiT not with me now. The proposals are 'NT ~ ? being examined. WTo 'lITo ,"0 "",,,'l) rt~ ifCf.lifc Shri Venkatasubbaiah: In view of the fact that propagation of Hindi is ;t ~ ~ 'iT f'li ~ ~ fOffgq ~ crTif' essential in South India, does the ~ it; fri ~ ~ m ~ lPr"tif ~ Government propose to set up a sepa- ( ~ ~ crT q'q'Tta ~ ~ I ~ rate Hindi university in anyone of the States in the South? qfll q Dr. K. L. Shrimali: Government ment are not aware of any political have not received any formal proposal Iparty in India having adopted the flag from the Sabha so far. of a foreign State as its party ftag. Shri Reda: One of the main object!! Shrl Auroblnclo Ghosal: Mav I know of the proposed scheme for taking over if a flag of any political party 01 India Osmania University was to have a has got any resemblance-not identi- nucleus foJ;' spreading Hindi in the cal-with that of a foreign Stat.e? South. Short of taking over Osmania Shrl G. B. Pant: Relemb1ance is such University are Government thinking an elastic exoression that it is difficult of any other soheme through which to say that there is nothinii that re- they can spread Hindi in the South! sembleI'! !'Iomethint! else. But there is Dr. K. L. ShrimaU: There are nothini that is identical. That I can various schemes which are under ope- sa:v. ration at the present moment. As I Shri Vajpayee: May I know if at said, one of OUr important schemes is present Government have the l)ower to set up a regional Hindi trainini to ban the us", of a orei~n ftag by a college in each area to meet the re- political Dartv in India! quirements of Hindi teachers in the secondary schools. The Government Shrl G. B. Pant: There is no Dartl- ,have promised to give cent per cent cular law on the subiect. but if a foreign flaf! is treated in such a way assistance for setting up these train- ail! to indicate that t.he person ill not ing colleges. With regard to the loyal to the country, then it may be proposal from the Dakshina Bharat '8. question for consideration. Hindi Prachar Sabha, I am not definite but probably some proposal may have Shri Rem Bana: How to flnd it out? come. I have in fact had some talk wi:h Shri Satyanarayanji who is the Secretary of the Sabhe. There wa& '-11' \q;rrq ~ : cp;rr ll' iifTif ~ ~ some discussion and some proposal f'fi ~ rR 'nCr mq; ~ ~ ~ ~ may also have come. Bl:1t I do no tcr:;;r ~ cti1.: ~~ ~ ~ 'fiT lflf think any firm request has come fron 'fiT 'fiT the Sabha in this matter. ~~~ ~ Shri Achar: May I know whether '-1) ITTo ~ ~ ~ q;lIi ~ , any consultations have taken place .0 : r~ ~ CfiT-\m 'fiT ~ with the Mysore Government to have a iJIl training college or something of t.hat ~ ~ ~ f1"li{c ~ ~ ~ 0cIi I mr kind for Hindi training? t ~~ ~~~~~ Mr. Speaker: Is Hyderabad y Shri Supakar: May I know if there Mysore State? Next question. ., i:o. such a great resemblance betwel!n thl'! flag of the Muslim LealO1e and Flag 01 Political Party that of Pakistan .0 as to create cODtu- -1649. Shri Aurobindo Ghosal: Will siol'.? the Minister of Rome Affairs be pleas- Shri G. B. Pant: Yes, there is a «nIt ed to state: deal of resemblance between t.he two. (a) whether the flag of any foreign But still, people who are supposed to State is retained by any political party be careful in watching these things of India; and should notice that there is a di1ference between th,. two. (b) if so, what is the name of that party? Shri Recla: May I know if the Gov- ernment ftnd any resemblance bet- The Minister of Rome Affairs Shrf G. B. Pant: International flag? Shrl Raghunath Singh: May I know I do not exactly know what inter- the quantity of steel that India in- national flag is like, nor have I studied tends to export to U.K.? the Swatantra Party flag. If a flag has been designed, I do not know if Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: it. is going to be still born or if it will Actually I have said that we are not need any further scrutiny. going to export steel but semi-finished steel which we are exporting to U.K. Coal Washery We have made some arrangement to export nearabout 12,000 metric tons ·1650. Shrf Achar: Will the Minis- of basic grade pig iron to U.K., but ter of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleas- not exactly steel. ed to state: Shri Hem Barua: In view of the (a) whether Hindustan Steel Ltd., !::let that West Germany is herself a has placed an order for supply of a najor producer of steel and she pro- coal washery worth about two crores poses to import steel slabs from our of rupees; country, may I know whether this is linked up with any agreement on ex- (b) whether this order was given ::hanging of r.ommodities and with after calling tenders; and those e ~ ng (c) if not, how the contract was Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Yes, negotiated and finalised? Sir. The hon. Member is correct to that extent that actually it will be The Parliamentary Secretary to the slightly a barter deal. Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel (Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha): (a) and (b). Shri Sadhan Gupta: May I know Yes, Sir. how much foreign exchange we a:'e (c) Does not arise. expected to earn from the export of this semi-finshed steel? Shri Raghunath Singh: May I know whether it is a fact that India is not The Minister of Mines and Oil self-sufficient so far as steel is con- (Shri K. D. Malavtya): So far as this concerned? If so, when We are not semi-finished steel export to a parti- self-sufficient why are we exporting cular firm is concerned, there is a steel to foreign countries? history behind it. Hindustan Steel ./ are now going to set up a transporta- tion pipe mill and there is an agree- Shrl Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Actu- ment with the German firm to supply ally we are not exporting flnished some pipes to us before We can steel. We have made arrangements to an a ~ re our own. Under this export some semi-finished steel be- agreement, in the early stages we cause though our open hearth fur- have agreed to supply them some naces are ready our rolling program- semi-ftnshed steel. Later on we shall me has not yet started. Because of be able to get these things produced this time lag between them naturally here in our own pipe mill. we have to dispose of the semi-finished product somewhere specially when we Shri S. R. Arumugham: The Parlia- ourselves do not have the rolling mentary Secrtary has stated that capacity. I would like to add be- India has no full capacity for rolling cause there may be some apprehen- mills. So many applications were sion that the re-rollers may roll it called for from Madras State for that it cannot be re-rolled even by starting rolling mills, but no applica- the re-rollers. The capacity in this tion was considerd, and no licence country for roIling the product of the was also given. What was the rea- ~ a t furnaces in the public sector is 'son for not giving licences to start very meagre. rolling mills in the South? Not 13I9S Oral Answers VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) Oral Angwer' 13196 only.that. In the recent conference Shrl Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Actu- of the Hardware Merchants' Asso- ally, full advice was taken from our ciation. they have mentioned that technical experts, but at present I am steel is in short supply and that not able to say who the advisers for they are not able to get suffi- the. purchase of this particular cient quantity. What are the reasons machine were. for all these things? Shri Achar: May I know if world tenders were called for? Shri K. D. Malavlya: The supple- mentary hardly arises out of this Shrl Gajendra Pra.'IIld Sinha: Yes, question. Sir, world tenders were called, and there were so many tenders also. Shrt Gajendra Prasad Sinha: I would like to add that I was appre- Shrl KasIlwal: May I know where hensive of 1he misunderstanding, and this particular coal washery is pro- therefore I said there was a difference posed to be set up, and which parti- between re-rollers and ro er~ Actu- cular steel plant it is going to serve? ally, the production which we are going to export is not meant for being Shrt Gajendra Prasad Sinha: This is about the Bhojudih Washery, if I am re-rolled. We have got over-capacity of re-rolling mills here. The Saksena right. The requirement of the washed coal for the Tata Iron and Steel Committee went extensively into this Works at Jamshedpur is about 2'4 matter, and reported that for the million tons. and their capacity for time being there was no ne e~~it coal washing is 1'5 million tons. Even when we are working on one They need some additional washed shift, the capacity is '! million tons. coal, and therefore we have under- taken it. Coal Washery Shrl Supakar: If it is for Tata Steel. ·1651. Shri Achar: Will the Minis- what have Hindustan Steel to do with ter of Steel, Mines and Fuel be ordering a coal washery? Will they pleased to state: supply the coal? (a) whether Hindustan Steel Ltd., Shri Gajendra Prasad Sinha: Yes, has placed an order for supply of a Sir. coal washery worth about two crores of rupees; Sikkim RaftIe (b) whether this order was given .1652. Shrl Rem Barua: Will the after calling tenders; and Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to state: (c) if not, how the contract was negotiated and finalised? (a) whether it is a fact that the provisions of the Indian Penal Code The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel do not apply to Sikkim; (Shrl Gajendra Prasad Sinha): (a> (b) if so, whether it is a fact that and (b). Yes, Sir. Indian nationals who have complain- ed against the raffle run in Sikkim are (c> Does not arise. advised to seek redress in Sikkim Shrl Achar: I understand this is a Courts; and new type of machine, cyclone washing (c) if so, under what provisions of machine type, and that it is for the law the Sikkim raffle has been au- first time being introduced in India. thorised by the Government here? May I know whether any expert ad- vice was taken before ordering it; if The Minister of Home Affairs (Shrl so, who were our advisers? O. B. Put): Ca) The provisioDs of 13197 Oral Answer. APRIL 22, 1960 Oral Answer. the Indian Penal Code have been Shri G. B. Pant: The correspon- adopted by the Sikkim Darbar. dence between the Government ot India and the Government of Sikkim, (b) Persons complaining against the if any, must be of a confidential conduct of the H. Charities 'Fund R. character. Lottery, Sikkim, are advised to ad- dress their complaints to the Sikkim Shri Bem Bama rose- Darbar. Offences in relation to this Lottery are tdiable in Indian or Mr. Speaker: I will not allow any Sikkim Courts depending on jurisdic- more questions. He is not prepared to tion. disclose, it is confidential. (C) Some State Governments nave authorised the Lottery either under Shri Bem Barua: This is a very Section 294-A IPC or under their important issue, and our exchequer is local laws. losing money. They are evading in- come-tax also, and there are agen- Shrl Bem Barua: In view of the cies here. fact that section 294-A of the Indian Penal Code, under which the lotteries Mr. Speaker: Order, order, Next are authorised, does not apply to Question. Sikkim in general, may I know under what authority this has been allowed National Book Trust to continue? Is it not a fact that on -1653. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will a previous occasion the Home Ministry the Minister of Education be pleas- discontinued th:s rame on this ground. ed to state: Shri G. B. Pant: The Home Ministry (a) whether it is a fact that some has not been generally in favour of members of the National Book launching such lotteries, b".1t the Trust have tendered their resigna- Sikkim Lottery has been approved by tions; the Bengal Government and also by (a) whether the Chairman of the the Bombay Government. When a Trust has also resigned; lottery is approved by the State Gov- ernment, the approval of the State (c) if so, the causes of their resign- Government is regarded as valid for ations; the whole of India. (d) whether their resignations have Shri Bern Barua: May I know whe- been accepted; and ther it is a fact that on a previous (e) what steps Government propose occasion the Government wrote to the to take in the matter? Maharajkumar of Sikkim to discon- tinue this ----- The Minister of Education (Dr. It. L. Shrimali): (a) to (e). The Chair- May I know whether it i8 a man of the Trust has resigned in order tact that on a previous occasion to devote himself exclusively to the the Government wrote to the work of the University Grants Com- Maharjkumar of Sikkim to discontinue mission. His resignation has been ac- this raffle in this country, and that cepted, and steps are being taken to he replied to the effect that he could appoint a suitable substitute. About a not do it because it benefited his ex- year ago, Shri Tendulkar had resign- chequer to the tune of Rs. 72,000 a ed for personal reasons and his place year? The Government of India was filled up under rules. wanted to compensate it with an in- creased grant, and that was also Dr. Ram Subhag Sinrh: When did the Chairman of this National Book turned down. Why is it so? -Expunged, as ordered by the Chair. Oral Answers VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Written Answers 132.00 Trust resign, and when was his re- the information that the members are signation accepted? What were the' quarrelling amongst themselves. causes of hi!; resignation apart from the fact he wanted to devote Shri Hem Barua: On a point of himself exclusively to the work of the order. May I know whether the University Grants Commission? Why word 'quarrelling' could be used in was he appointed at all if it was his respect of the members of this Na- intention to devote himself exclusively tional Book Trust? to the work of the University Grants Commission? Mr. Speaker: The Ques,tion Hour is over. Dr. K. L. Shrimali: The hon. Mem- ber has asked a number of questions. Shri Raghunath Singh: May I ask one question? Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Because Mr. Speaker: I am sorry. there is no time. Shri Raghunath Singh: May I know Dr. K. L. Shrimali: In 1959 the Chairman showed his keenness to be whether it is a fact that two more members have also resigned? relieved of his duties with the Na- tional Book Trust so that he might Mr. Speaker: I have disallowed the devote himself exclusively to the question already. I have disposed of work of the University Grants Com- the point of order. Nothing more miSSIon. I had, however, requested remains now. him to carryon for some time, and he agreed to this, In early 1960 he Shri Raghunath Singh: Two more again requested to be relieved of his m2mbers have also resigned. duties with the Trust, and the resign- ation has been accepted. What was Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: In all, three the other question which the hon. ha ve resigned. Member asked'? Mr. Speaker: Let them. 12 hrs. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Has this WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUES- Book Trust succeeded in publishing TIONS any national book so far, and if so, what are the names of those books? Post-Matrie Scholarships to Scheduled Caste Students in Kerala Dr. K. L. Shrimali: I do not have that information with me at the pre- "'1654 r Shri A. K. Gopalan: sent moment, because the hon. Mem- • LShri Warior: ber had asked this question only with Will the Minister of Education be regard to the chairman and the mem- pleased to state: bers. If he would give me notice of a separte question, I shall answer that. (a) whl:!ther it is a fact that post- Matric scholarship amounts due to Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: My point is Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe that the members of this National students for the year 1959-60 have not Book Trust have been quarrelling so been paid in the Kerala State as yet; much that they have not succeeded and in publishing any book worth the name. (b) if so, what action the Scholar- ship Board has taken to expedite pay- Dr. K. L. Shrimali: That is not cor- ments? rect. There are occasional diiferf'nces between members. I do not know The Minister of Education (Dr. It. from where the hon, Member has got L. ShrlmaU): (a) No, Sir. 299 (Ai) LSD-2. 13201 Written Anawera APRIL 22, 1960 Writtm Answer. 13202 (b) Does not arise. exhaustive criteria to classify the Backward Classes on the basis of edU- Wind Power cation and social status; and (d) whether the States of Madras, ·1655. Shrl P. C. Borooah: Will the Mysore and Andhra have objected to Minister of ScientUlc Research and the elimination of caste from the cen- Cultural Aftalrs be pleased to state: sus enumeration? (a) whether it is a fact that the re- The Deputy Minister of Home cent research conducted by the Coun- Affairs (Shrimati Alva): (a) The cil of Scientific and Industrial Re- Registrar General of India was not search showed encouraging results for entrusted with the work of evolving the utilisation of wind power in the such a formula. He was asked only country; to conduct an ad hoc survey of the 1951 census data to enable the Govern- (b) if so, the places where wind as ment to evolve a practicable and a source of energy would be available workable criterion for determining in the country; "the otlher backward classes". (c) whether it is also a fact that a large number of wind mills will be (b) The mattllr is under consider- established in the villages; and ation. (d) if so, the proposed number (c) Yes. But criteria have not been thereof? accepted by the Government for the reasons explained in the memorandum The Minister of Scientific Research presented to Parliament along with and Cultural Affairs (Shri Humayun the report of the Backward Classes Kabir): (a) Yes, Sir. Commission on 3rd September, 1956. (b) Certain areas in Rajasthan, (d) No. Saurashtra, Himalayan foothills, the west coast and in the extreme South Telugu Novel-'Narayana Rao' may be suitable for utilisation of windpower. r Sbri Agadi: ·1657. ~ Shri Wodeyar: (c) and (d). Two hundred pilot wind mills are proposed to be instal- LShri Sugandhi: led in the first instance. Will the Minister of Scientific Re_ search and Cultural Aftairs be pleas- Criteria for determining Backwardness ed to refer to the reply given to Star- red Question No. 856 on the 14th , ·1658. Shrl N. R. Munlswamy: Witl December, 1959 and state: the Minister of Bome Aftairs be pleas- ed to state: (q) ~~t ~ 1m ~ "fiT Deihl Municipal Corporation f;rt'mur ~ g-'JT '1;1"1<: ~~ ~ *1658 {Shrl Bam Itrishan Gupta: '1< fiflli The Deputy Minister of Finance engaged in this task. This Ministry (Shrl B. R. Bhagat): (a) 57 forged has also given a grant for the purpose five-rupee notes are understood to to the Bhara tiya Lok Kala Mandai, have been seized from seven persons Udaipur. in Hissar District. Manufacture of Drilling Equipment (b) Eight persons are understood to have been arrested in this connection. *1664 J Shri Ram Krishan Gupta: . l Shri Morarka: (c) No note-printing factory has so far been traced. Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleased to refer to the (d) Does not arise. reply given to Unstarred Question No. 708 on the 1st December, 1959 Royalty on Minerals and state at what stage is the ques- r Dr. Ram Subbag Singh: tion of manufacturing drilling equip- .166Z. ~ Shri P. K. Deo: ment in India? L Shri Aurobindo Ghosal: The Minister of Mines and Oil Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and (Shri K. D. Malaviya): A statement Fuel be pleased to state: giving the required information is placed on the Table of the House. (a) whether certain State Govern- ments have requested the Government STATEMENT of India to raise the royalty payable It is envisaged that the Heavy to them for mining f"ights; and Machinery Building Plant being set (b) if so, whether Government have up near Ranchi will undertake pro- considered their request and taken duction of oil drilling equipment in any decision in the matter? the second stage. The preparatory work for setting up of this plant is The Minister of Mines and Oil (Shri in progress. The Oil and Natural K. D. Malaviya): (a) Yes, Sir. The Gas Commission have also set up a Governments of Rajasthan, Madras design and manufacturing cell. A and Kerala had suggested increase in few items of equipment have been the rates of royalty on gypsum, mag- fabricated locally. The Commission's nesite and lime shell and quartz sand existing workshop at Cambay is being respectively. expanded SO as to undertake manufac- (b) The Central Government has ture of other heavy equipment. not been able to accept the proposals. Besides, Indian manufacturers have been contacted regarding the manu- Puppet Shows facture of derricks, elevators and casing pipes etc. ·1663. Shrl Aurobindo Ghosal: Will the Minister of Scientific Re- Foreign Tourists search and Cultural Affairs be pleas- ed to state: Z417. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased (a) whether Government have any to state: proposal to develop old folk recrea- tional art of puppet show; and (a) the number of foreigners to whom visas to visit India were issued (b) if so, the details thereof? during the first quarter of the year The Minister of Scientific Research 1960; and and Cultural Affairs (Shrl Humayun (b) the names of the countries to Kabir): (a) and ('b). The Sangeet which these persons belong? Natak Akademi has been encouraging the development of puppetry through The MinJster 01 Home Affairs (Shrl grants to organisations or institutions G. B. l"ant): (a) and (b). A state- t~ Written Answers V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) W'ntten A nswerB 13208 ment giving the information received ~ LeanUn&' Hindi so far, is laid on the Table of Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV annexure 2420. Shri Madhusudan Bao: Will . No. 50.] , the Minister of Home Malrs . be pleased to state: State Buses in the Andamans (a) the number of Class I and II Officers who have learnt Hindi after 2418. f Shri Raghunath Singh: the scheme of Hindi teaching was Sardar A. S. Saigal: L introduced in the Secretariat; and Will the Minister of Home Affairs (b) the number of such officers who are learning Hindi currently? be pleased to state: The Minister of State in the Minis- (a) the number of State buses try of Home Mairs (Shri Datar): (a> plying in the Andamans; and (b). The information is being collected and will be laid on the Table (b) their respective daily passenger- of the House. miles capacity and the actual average daily passenger-miles done; and Students' Delegation to Australia (c) their income and expenditure 2421. Shri Madhusudan Rao: Will under broad heads from the 1st the Minister of Scientific Research and April, 1959 up-to-date? Cultural Affairs be pleased to lltate: (a) whether it is a fact that Govern- The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri ment are going to send a delegation of G. B. Pant): (a) Nine. students to Australia; (b) Information is being collected (b) if so, the names of persons who and will be laid on the Table. are chosen for the purpose and the Universities from which they come; (c) For 1959-60, the income and expenditure was as follows:- (c) when they are likely to leave and how many days they are going to Income Rs. 69,688 stay in Australia; and Expenditurc:- (d) how much expenditure is going (i) Under capital outlay Rs. 75,415 to be borne and by whom? (ii) Revenue expcnditurte Rs. 59,587 The Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Affairs (Shrl Homayun Medium Term Loans Kabir): (a) and (b). On an invitation by the National Union of Australian 2419. Shri Shree Narayan Das: Will University Students the Indian Council the Minister of Finance be pleased to for Cultural Relations has decided to state: send to Australia a delegation with the (a) whether the question of relax- following membership. ing present standards regarding I. Kumari Kuckoo Delhi University. medium term loans by the Reserve Mathur. Bank of India to the Co-operative 2. Kumari Meera Pra- Patna University. Institutions, has been considered by sad. the Bank; and 3. Kumari P. Rizvi. Delhi University. (b) if so, with what result? 4. Kumari Sakuntla Andhra University. Raman. S. Shri Ram Labhaya. Delhi University. The Minister of Finance (Shri Morarji Desai): (a) and (b) . The 6. Shri Shyam S. Bombay University. sami. matter is under consideration of the 7. Shri T. Madan Mo- Marathwada Univer- Reserve Bank of India. han Row. sity. I3209 Written Answers APRIL 22, 1960 Written An.nc>ers I3210 (c) The delegation is scheduled to M. M. Das): (a) The Union Depart- leave India on 2nd May, 1960 and will ment of Archaeology has undertaken stay there for a period of about six village to village survey of anti- weeks. quities, monuments etc. in the last quarter of 1957 as one of its projects (d) The Council will spend about under the Second Five Year Plan. Rs. 10,000 for mee>ting· half the cos1 The Survey is still in progress. of international travel 'is well as full cost of travel within India. The (b) The Survey has brought to balance of the cost of international light several old.. mosques, graves, travel is to be borne by the student tombs, temples, mounds, wells, sites and/or the University concerned. In etc. of archaeological interest. Australia, the delegation will be the guests of the Union. r Cultural Grants to uttar Praclsb OrganJsatJODII ~ smr ii ~ !fiT S('iim: I 2424. Shri SarJu Pandey: Will the Minister of Scientific Research and ~ ~~ 'IT ~ ifl(f fmn m : Cultural Affairs be pleased to state: t~ ~ ~ if\1" 'lm i~ fCfi : (a) the names of organisations which ( Cfi ) iflIT iTO cri ;f' lfrof ~ ;f were given grants for promotion of cultural activities in Uttar Pradesh ~ rt~ ~ 'fiT ~it sr:;:m: ~ State during the years 1958-59 and ~ (tT) iflIT ~ ~ f'fi«T ~ *'fT The Minister of Scientific Research ctT ~ tTl ~ ; ~R and Cultural Affairs (Sbrl Humayuu Kabir): (a) and (b). ( f{) lffa: ~ 01 a~ iltro ltlfT l ? t ~ (wto lfiTo \=fTo ~ Name of organisation] Amount (Cfi) ~ ~ 1 RI. ~ ij- (f{), ~~~ 1 Aftbaeolopcal Survey In uttar I. College of Indology, Banaras Pradesh Hindu University, Banaras. S,ooo 2. Allahabad University, Alla- 2423. Shri SarJu Pandey: Will the habad 6,000 Minister of Scientific Research and 3. Numismatic Society, Bana- Cultural Mairs be pleased to state: ras . 3,000 4. All-India Kashiraj Trust (a) whether any survey has been Banaras . $,000 undertaken in Uttar Pradesh regard- S. Allahabad Literary and Cul- ing ancient temples and places of tural Association, Allaha- archaeological and historical import- bad 2S,000 ance since 1948 up-to-date; and 6. Anjuman Taraqqi Urdu Hind, Aligarh . 36,000 (b) if so, with what result? 7. Tulsi Samark Foundation Ceremony Committee, Raja- The Deputy Minister of Scientuic pur, Banda :,000 ltesearch and Cultural Malrs (Dr. VAISAKHA 2, 1882 1321% Written Answers (SAKA) Written AftftDe1'8 13212 to state the number of (i) murder Amount cases and (ii) other cases in which Name of organisation Rs. pardons or remissions have been ._------granted by the Central Government or the President during the period 8. Sangeet Nritya Kala Mandir, Aligarh. Soo December, 1959 to April, 1960? The Minister of State iii the MIDis- 19S9-6o• try of Home Mairs (Sbrt Datu): I. Numismatic Society, Bana- Death sentence was commuted to im- ras prisonment for life in the case of 23 2. All-India Kashiraj Trust, prisoners and remission of punishment r S.ooo Banaras . was granted in two cases, during the 3. Akbar Memorial Committee, period from 1st December, 1959 to 19th Allahabad. . . . April, 1960. 4. Syed Mohd. Mirza Mohaz- zab, Lucknow. . . 5,000 'Central '.lues in Delhi' 5. Aniuman Taraqqi Urdu Hind, Aligarh.. . . . 51,000 2427. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the 6. Shri Bhagwat Das Misra, Ayo- Minister of Finance be pleased to 600 dhya state: 7. All-India Maithili Sahitya Samiti, Allahabad . (a) whether there was any fall in 8. Bharat Kala Bhavan, Banaras the collection of Central Taxes In Hindu University, Hanaras . 1,05,000 Delhi durnig 1959-60; and 9. Allababad Municipal Muse- um"Allahabad. . 45,000 (b) if so, the reasons therefor? 10. Gurdkula Museum, Hardwar 10,000 The Minister of Finance (Sbri Morarji Desai): (a) There was no fall U. Bundel Khand Chatrashal . Museum, Banda 2,500 in the collection of Central Taxes in Delhi during 1959-60 as compared to u. Shibli Academy, Azamgarh . 5,000 the collection during 1958-59. The above does not include grants given ( b) Does not arise. by the Akademis. Hall-cum-Auditoriums iD Punjab Welfare Extension Projects in Punjab 2428. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the 2425. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of EducatiOn be pleased to Minister of Education be pleased to state: state: (a) whether under the campus (a) the kind of welfare extension work projects, applications have been projects established in Punjab by the received from educational institutions Central Social Welfare Board with in Punjab for grants to construct Central assistance during 1959-60; and hall-cum-auditoriums; (b) the location of these projects? (b) if so, what amount has been The Minister of Education (Dr. allotted to Punjab for this purpose; K. L. Shrimali): (a) Co-ordinated (C) the names of the institutions pattern. which have applied for such grants; (b) 1. Karnal (District Karnal) and 2. Khul East (District (d) when they are going to receive Bhatinda). these grants? The Minister of Education (Dr. Pardons and RemisslollS K. L. Shrimali) (a) Yes, Sir. 2426. Shrt D. C. Sharma: Will the (b) No State-wise allocation of Minister of Home AJlairs be pleased funds is made under the scheme. 13213 Written Answers APRIL 22, 1960 Written Answers 13214 (c) The following educational insti- pansion of girls' education an4 traIn- tutions in Punjab applied for grants ing of women teachers at the elemen- for construction of Recreation Halls- tary stage. cum-Auditoria during 1959-60:- (b) Yes, for Rs. 96,000 out of which 1. Mukand Lal National College, administrative approval for Rs. 79,800 Yamunanagar. has been issued. 2. Dyal Singh College, Karnal. 3. D.A.V. College, Amritsar. II Merit-cum-Means Scholarships In Andhra Pradesh 4. M.D.A.S. High School, Moga. J 5. Gaur Brahman Central High 2430. Shri Madhusudan Rao: Will the! School, Rohtak. Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Attairs be pleased to state the 6. B.H.R. (Rawalpindi) S. D. number of merit-cum-means scholar- Higher Secondary School, ships a'Hotted to each Technical Insti- Shankar. tut.e (with names) in Andhra Pradesh 7. S. D. Kumar Sabha Girls during 1959-60? Higher Secondary School, Patiala. The Minister of Scientific Research 8. Dev Samaj Girls High School, and Cultural Attairs (Shri Humayun Rampuraphul. Kabir): 9. Atma Ram Kumar Sabha Higher Secondary School, Patiala. a ~ of the n~tit tion ~r ofscho- larships (d) An aggregate grant of Rs. 35,000 allotted was approved for the Mukand Lal 'National College. Against this amount, a sum of Rs. 11,000 has been (a) First Dcgrce C0711'SCS: released as first instalment to the College. The application of D.A.V. I. College of Engineering, Kaki- College, Amritsar was rejected as it nada 9 did not fulfil the conditions of grants. 2. ~ ~ nf Engineering, An- The applications from the remammg antapur 7 3. College of Engineering, Os- institutions are stiIl undcr considera- mania University, Hydera- tiQn. bad 13 4. College of Engineering, An- Education of Girls in Jammu and dhra University, Waltair . 7 Kashmir 5. Department of Chemical Te- chnology, Osmania 2429. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the University, Hyderabad 2 Minister of Education be pleased to 6. J.V.D. College of Science & state: Technology, Waltair . 3 7. University College of Engin- (a) the amount allocated by Central eering, Tirupathi. 7 Government for 1959-60 to the Gov- ernment of Jammu & Kashmir for (b) Diploma Councs: the education of girls; and 8. Andhra Polytechnic, Kaki- (b) whether the Government of nada 4 Jammu and Kashmir had sought any 9. Attached POlytechnic to College of Engineering amount for this purpose? Anantapur 2 The Minister of Education (Dr. 10. Government Polytechnic, Vi- K. L. Shrimali): (a) A sum of Rs. 1.00 zagapatam 3 lakhs has been allocated under the II. Government Technical Col- lege, Hyderabad Centrally Sponsored Scheme fO! 0:- 1321 5 Written Answers VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (oSAKA) Written Answers 13216 (,b) if so, the total amount sanction- Name of the Institution Number of slho· ed during the period with break-up larships for each InstitutionJSchool; and allotted (c) the names of the SchoolsJInsti- tutions benefited by this? 12. Government Polytechnic, Tiru- pathi 3 The Minister of Education (Dr. K.. L. 13. Government Polytechnic, Shrimali): (a) to (c). The relevant Warangal 2 information has already been furnish- 14. Hyderabad Polytechnic, Hy- ed in the stat.ement appended to Un- derabad . 2 starred Question No. 2102 answered on J5. Vuyyuru Polytcchnic, Vuyy- 14-4-1960. uru. 3 J6. Mining Institute, Secundcra- Social Welfare Extension Projects In bad Andhra Pradesh 17. Mining Institute, Guuur 18. M.V.M. Polytcchnic, Tanuku 2 2433. Shri Madhusudan Rao: Will 19. Mahboohnagar Pulytechnic, the Minister of Edllcation be pleased Mahboobnagar . 2 to state: 20. Govt. Polytechnic, Produa- thur 2 (a) the amount of Central Assistance 21. Guvt. Pulytechnic, Nizam3 - given to Andhra Pradesh during 1959- bad 2 60 for Social Welfare Extension Pro- 22. Krishna Devaraya Poly- jects and for social and moral hygiene technic, Wanap3rlby 2 and after care programmes; and 23. Ceramic Institute, Guuur (b) the number of Central Social TOTAl. Welfare Centres in the State (with names of places of their location)? Theatre at Hyderabad The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. Shrimali): (a) Central assistance to 2431. Shri Madhusudan Rao: Will the extent of Rs. 6,53,500 and the Minister of Scientific Research and Rs. 3,42,900 was given to Andhra Pra- Cultural A1fairs be pleased to refer to desh for the Social Welfare Extension the reply given to Unstarred Question Projects and for social and moral No. 554 on the 29th February, 196U hygiene and after-care programmes and state the progress made in regard re8pectively, during 1959-60. to the construction of a theatre at Hyderabad? (b) A sta temen t is laid on the 'rable. of the House. [See Appendix IV, all- ~ / The Minister of Scientific Research nexure No. 51.] V and Cultural AJlairs (Shri Rumayun Agricultural Colonies for Scheduled Kabir): The foundation stone of the Castes and· Scheduled Tribes theatre was laid on the 23rd M,rch, 1960. The work is in progress and it 2434. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the is expected that the theatre will be Minister of Home A1fairs be pleased to ready for the Tagore Centenary in state: May 1961. (a) the names of places where agri- Playgrounds in Andhra Pradesh cultural colonies were started for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled 2432. Shri Madhusudan Rao: Will Tribes in the State of Uttar Pradesh the MiniRter of Education be pleased in the years 1958-59 and 1959-60 under to state: the centrally sponsored schemes; (a) whether the Central Govern- (b) the names of places where they ment. have sanctioned any sum for are proposed to be started in the year making playgrounds in the schools 1960-61; and colleges of Andhra Pradesh during (C) tl.e amount of grant sanctioned 1 QS9-IIO: by the Central Government for the 132 17 Written Answers APRIL i~ 1960 purpose for the years 1958-59, 1959-60 (a) whether Government have iu- and 1960-61; and vestigated into the complaint of the students of the Laccadlve Islands (d) the amount actually spent in studying in Colieges In Malabar Dis- the years 1958-59 and 1959-607 trict, Kerala, regarding non-paYIntmt The Deputy MInister of Home of scholarships and subsidies; and Mairs (Shrimatl Alva): (a) to (d). There are no scheduled tribes in Uttar (b). if so, the action taken in thiJ Pradesh and as such the question ot re&arJ! starting agricultural colonies for them in that State does not arIse. The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. ShrimaU): (a) and (b). A complaint As to scheduled castes, the requir- was received from certain studenLs be- ed information has been called for longmg to the Islands, who had failed trom the State Government and wIll in tne final examination for the non- be laid on the 'fable (If the Lok Sabha payment of scholarshIps tor the months . on receipt. of April and May, 1959 by the AdmI- nistrator. Under the scholarships Report of the Coal Price Revision rules, scholarships are granted for 12 Committee months ending the 31st March. Scholarships for April and May are J Shrl Ram Krishan Gupta: 2436. Shri Ram Krishan Gupta: Will J Shrl Ram Krishan Gupta: 243'. Shri DamanI: the Minister of Education be pleased l to refer to the reply given to tlnstar- red Question No. 965 on the 4th Will the Minister of Education be December. 1959 and state: pleased to refer to the reply given to VAlSAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) Written ARItOeT. 13220 Unstarred Question No. 950 on the proposal referred to is still under con- 4th December, 1959 and state: sideration with the Ministry of Co- operatioh. (a) whether the scheme of Com- monwealth Scholarships and Fellow- Free and CompulsorJ Primal')" Educa- ships has been finalised; and tion (b) if so, the details thereof? rShri 8ubodh Hansda: 2440. ~ Shrl R. C. Majhi: The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. L 8hri S. C. Samanta: Sbrimall): (a) and (b). A statement regarding the present position is plac- Will the MlnilSter ot Ellllcation b. ed on the Table of the House. [See pleased to state: Appendix IV, annexure No. 53.] (a) whether any comments or sug- gestions have been received from the Delhi State Central Cooperative Stores State Government's on the four Shrl Ram Krishan Gupta: brochures (i) Teachers Training (ii) r (lii) 2438. ~ Shrl S. M. Banerjee: Primary Education Act in India Shrl Bhakt Darshan: Wastage and Stagnation and (iv) L General Administrative Problems of Will the Minister of Home Affairs free and compulsory education; and be pleased to reler to the reply given (b) it so, the nature of suggestions to Starred Question No. 119 on the or comments received? 18th November, 1959 and state the nature of progress made so far in the The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. completion of investigation in regard Shrimali): (a). Yes, Sir. The com- to complaints of irregularities in the ments from some State Governments accounts of Delhi State Central Co- and Union Territories have been operative Stores? received. The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri ( b) The VIews contained in these G. B. Pant): Investigation in the mat- replies are generally in support of the ter has since been completed and the suggestions made by this Ministry in Inquiry Officer has made certain sug- the four brochures. gestions which have been commend- t:d to the Delhi Administration for Income-Tax Arrears implementation. 2441. 8hri Pangartar: Will the Service Cooperatives in Cantonments Minister of }'inauce be pleased to 2439 r 8hrl Ram Krishan Gupta: state: Shri D. C. Sharma: . L (a) whether it is a fact that a large " Will the Minister of Defence be portion of arrears of Income-tax is JlleaJed to refer tl> the reply given to stIll outstandlllg; Unst:arred Question No. 160 on the (b) the total amount of income-tax 18th November, 1959 and state: arrears realised upto 31st January, 1960; and (a) whether Government have since considered the proposal of encourag- (c) the amount still to be realised? ing the setting up of Service Co-opera- tives in Cantonment areas; and The MInister of Finance (Shri Morarj. Desai): (a) to (c). The infor- (b) if so, the result thereof? matjon is being collected and a state- ment giving the required information The MlnJster of Defence (Shrl wil'l be laid on the Table of the Hou.'1e Krishna Menon): (a) and (b). The as early as possible. Aundha Nagnath Temple Ajanta Caves 2442. Shri Pangarkar: Will the 2445. Shri Pangarkar: Will the Mmister of ~ enti i Research and Minister of Scientific Research end Cultural Affairs be pleased to state: Cultural Mairs be pleased to tat~ (a) the amount spent on the main- (a) the amount spent for the main- tenance of Aundha Nagnath Temple, tenance of AJanta caves during 1959- Aundha during 1959-60; and 60; and tb) the amount proposed to be spent (b) the amount proposed to be spent for the maintenance of the above for the maint.enance of the above caves temple during 1960-6]? during 1960-61? The Deputy Minister of SclentHic The Dcputy Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Alralrs (Dr. Research and Cultural Affairs (Dr. M. M. Das): (a) Rs. 1,1l9. M. M. Das): (a) Rs. 28,876. (b) Rs. 2,500. (b) Rs. 48,000. Ellora (;aves Mining in Punjab Z443. Shri Pangarkar: Will the 2446. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Scientific Research and Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be Cultural Affairs be pleased to state: pleased to state: (a) the amount spent for the mam- (a) whether the Government of tenance of Ellora caves during 1959- Punjab have approached the Govern- 60; and ment of India for any financial asslS·· tance to explore the mining ro e ~ (b) the amount. proposed to be spent !Il th!: State; for the maintenance of the abovp. caves during 1960-61? (b) if so, whether any scheme has been forwarded by the Punjab GO'l- The Deputy Minister of Scientific ernment; and Research and Cultural Alrairs (Dr. (c) the action taken thereon? lU. M. Das): «('.) Rs. 36,3"/1. The Minister of Mines and Oil (Shri (b) Rs. 57,000. K. lJ. Malaviya): (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. Chitorgarh F'ort (c) Government of India have 2444. Shri Pangarkar: Will the agreed to offer the assistance. Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Atlairs be pleased to state: ~ ~ o ~ ~ ~~ (a) the amount spent for the main- tenance of Chitorgarh Fort during J 15fT ~ ~ : 1959-60; and ~ L 15fT ~~ n ~ : (b) the amount proposed to be spent for the maintenance of the iflIT ."nOA\ a r~ a'R' el"fi'lifI- above fort during 1960-61? ~ +t'lil ~ ~ 'tiT ~ cr.i:iT f'ti : The Deputy Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Alrairs (Dr. (or.) qq. ~t ~ t oq-'\1: ~t~o M. M. Das): (a) Rs. 63,529. it ~ lfm ~ ~ Ollfiiffl1rT .t (b) Rs. 90,000. ~~ ~ ~ ~~ qi{ 'lR11 ~ i i ~ Written Answers VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Written Answers 13224 ( ~ ) OflrT ~ i ;}¥ ~ rr 'tiT' Naval Mutiny :;;fTcT ~ ;;flf"fT t-f11T;f (l9) ~ r I ~i r ~ ~ (c) if so, how many; and cr.T iifP.:T rn: ;;flf"fT "fmol The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. The MInister of Bome Affairs (8hri Shrlmall): No such case has come to G. B. Pant): (a) Yes. the notice of Government so far. (b) The matter falls within the UNEF purview of the Municipal Corporation of Delhi who have special staff to fre- I} 2452. Shri Madhusudhan Rao: Will quently go round the various areas the Minister of Defence be pleased to to detect unauthorised constructions. refer to the reply given to Starred Where such constructions are in pro- Question No. 259 on the 19th February, gress, notices under section 343 and 1960 and state: 344 of the Delhi Municipal Corpora- tion Act, 1957, are served on the (a) whether the report of the court builders and thereafter the construc- I)f enquiry appointed to investigate the tions are demolished. causes of the accident involving two Indian soldiers of UNEF on the 5th (c) and (d). The number of such January 1960 has since been receiv- constructions demolished in the ed; and various areas is as follows:- (b) if so, what are the details in this Chandni Chowk 47 regard? Pahari Dhiraj and The Minister 01 Defence (Shrl Bara Hindu Rao 50 «rlshna Menon): (a) and (b). The pro- Karol BaRh 8S ceedings of the Court of Inquiry have Pahar Gunj 30 been received and are under examina- tion. In the meantime the United No other penalty is imposed except Arab Republic authorities have 'been that the demolitlon charges are re- requested to take suitable steps to covered from the owners. Out of a prevent recurrence of such accidents. total amount of Rs. 2,264 due as demo- An our drivers in the United Nations lition charges, only a sum of Rs. 15 Emergency Force have also been in- I,BS been recovered So far. Necessary ~or e to be careful at level cross- /, Itction is being taken by the Corpora- mgs. • tion to recover the balance. Unauthorised CoDBtructions in Deihl ....yments made In indian Rupees 2453. Shrl Ram Garib: Will the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased 2454. Shrl Morarka: Will the Minis- to state: ter of FInance be pleased to state: (a) whether Government are aware (a) the total payments made in that many people have raised un- Indian rupees to foreign governments authorised constructions in various or foreign nationals in lieu of the localities in Delhi; loans received or interests thereon or for the purchase of agricultural com- (b) if so, whether any survey has moditIes from U.S.A. under P.L. 480 been made by Government in the and P.L. 665 and other industrial plant areas known as Chandni Chowk, and machinery or technical know-how Pahari Dhiraj, Karol Bagh, Pahar during the First and Second Five Year Ganj and Bara Hindu Rao of Delhi Plan periods; . in the past two years: (b) the names of such countries ( c) in ho}\" many cases the construr.- with the respective a o n~ and tions were demolished and the cul- prits penalized; and (c) the consideration for which the payment was made'/' (d) what penalty was awarded to them and whether it was realised from The MInister of I'baance (Shrl all? MorarJI Desai): (a) to(c). A statement 13227 Written Answers V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Written Answers 13228 is laid on the Table. [See Appendix, Source.-·Report (1960, of the Com· IV, annexure No. 54.] mittee for Steel Demand Appraisal constituted by the National Copncil Visas for Indian Students to Study of Applied Economic Research, Chinese Language I1nder the Chairmanship of Dr. P. S. J.okana than. 2455 f Shri Rameshwar Tantia: Shrl Pabadla: tStatistical Year Book, 1958-Unit- . 1. ed Nations Economic Commission. Will the Mmister of Education be pleased to state: / Production of Mica in Andhra Pradesh (a) whether it is a fact that Gov- ernment selected four students to go 2457. Shr! Madhusudan Rao: Will to China to study Chinese language; thc Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleased to state the quantity of (b) whether it is also a fact that mica produced in Andhra Pradesh one of these students has been refused :luring 1958-59 and 1959-60? visa by the Chinese Embassy; and The Minister of Mines and Oil (Shrl (c) if so, what was the reason for K. D. Malaviya): The quantity of mica this refusal"t produced from Andhra Pradesh dur- The Minister 01 Education (Dr. It. L. ing the c3.:ender years 1958 and 1959 . Shrlmali): (a) Government selected i~ as follows: five students for study of Chinese Year Quantity language in China. (in Metric tons) (b) One of the five students a~ 1958 5,198 refuscd visa by the Chinese Embassy. 1959 5,557 1/ (c) Government have no informa- bon. Steel Re-rolUng mills in Andhra ~ Consumption of Steel Pradesh 2458. Shri Rami Reddy: Will the 2456. Shri Shree Narayan Das: Will Minister of Steel, Mines and FlUI be the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel pleased to state: be pleased to state: (a) the number of applications re- (a) what will be the per capita con- ceived for the setting up of steel re- Rumption of steel in India at the end rolling mills in Andhra Pradesh since of the Second Five Year Plan; and the beginning of the Second Plan; (b) how does our present per capita (b) the number of licences issued; consumption of steel compare with and United Kingdom, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., West Germany and China? (c) the number of s1leel re-rolling mills set up in the different States The Minister of Steel, Mines and (State-wise) since the beginning of Fuel (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) 19 the Second Five Year Plan? lbs. or 18.61 kilograms· The Minister of Steel, Mines and (a) United Fuel (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) 22. Kingdom 372 Kilograml(@) ~r United • I , C,pitQ (b) One. States of J consu· America 568" ~ mption (c) Of the four new units sanction- West ofsteel Germany 393 " ed-one each in Andhr&, Assam, U.S.S.R. 263 .. l Bihar and Kerala-two (in (AndhTB Cbina 8.S" J and Assam) have been installed. In 13129 Written Answers APRIL 22, 1960 Written Answers 132 30 addition, one small unit in Assam has Entry Pennits to Nlcobars also been installed. 2460 r Sardar A. S. Saigal: Banaras Hindu University . l Shri Raghunath Singh: WlIl the Minister of Home Affairs "'2459 r Dr. Ram Subbag Singh: be pleased to state: . l Shri Kbushwaqt Rai: (a) whether persons wishing to Will the Minister of Education be enter Nicobar Islands have to obtain pleased to state: entry permits from the Deputy Com- missioner, Port Blair, under the Pro- (a) whether the Uttar Pradesh tection of oriein~ Tribes Regula- Zamindari Abolition Bonds worth Tlnn; Rs. 688077'39 nP. were purchased during the period 24th August, 11156 (b) whether sometime back a large to 24th April, 1958 by the 13anar9s number of monopolist traders' em- Hindu University when Dr. V. S. Jh'l ployees were found in Nicobars with- was Vice-Chancellor with the old out such entry permits; and Executive Council; (c) if so, what action was taken against them? (b) whether the Uttar Prade<;h Zamindari Abolition Bnnds worth The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri Rs. 890073'33 nP. were purchased by O. R. Pant): (a) Under the Andaman Banaras Hindu University with Dr. and Nicohar ISlands lProtection of V. S. Jha as Vice-Chancellor with nC'w Aboriginal Tribes) Regulation, 1956, Executive Council; and every pns(,n desiring to enter a re- served area in the Nicobar Islands (c) if so, what action 1S proposC'd must possess a pass issued by the to be taken against the authority res- Deputy Commissioner, Andaman and ponsible for this o ~ to the Banaras Nicobar Islands. :Hindu University'! (b) and (c). Thirteen employees of Messrs R. Akoojee Jadwet and Com- The Minister of Education (nr. K. pany and 20 employees of thc Car L. Shrimali): (a) Uttar Pradesh Nicobar Trading Company and the Zamindari Ar.olition :Bonds of Ihe Nancowry Trading Company were lace value of Rs. 11,75,000 were pUJ"- arre:,ted in November-December, 1959, cnased by the Banaras Hindu Univer- for having entered the Nicobar Islands SIty at a cost of Rs. 4,83.100 durine; without obtaining the requisite pass. tn~ period 24th August, 1956 to the Tht! arrested persons were produced 24th April, 1958 when Dr. V. S. Jha before the Magistrate who released was the Vice-Chancellor with the old them on personal bonds. The inves- Executive Council. tigations in these cases are going on. (b) No bonds were purchased dur- Estate Duty Ing the regime of the new, i.e., the present ExecutiV'e Council with Dr. J Shri S. M. Banerjee: V. S. Jha as Vice-Chancellor. 2461.\.. Shri Chintamoni Panigrahi: Will the Minister of Finance be (c) As a result of departmental in- pleased to state: qUlry into the transaction, the findings of which were ~ ie in the state- (a) whether huge amount pertain- ment pla::ed on the Table of the Lok ing to l:state Duty remains unrecover- Sabha on the 3rd March, 1960, a ed; prima facie case has been established for further investigation and the same (b) if so, what is the total amount is proposed to be undertaken shortly. all 1st February, 1960; J323 [ Written Answer" V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Written AftftDerr 13232 (c) the number of cases pending and Offtcers of equivalent status are for settlement; and posted with the Central Government; and (d) the steps taken for their ex- peditious settlement? (b) how mrny of them are govern- ed by the Tenure Rule and for how The Minister of IFinance (Shrl many years they have been in Cen- Morarj. DesaI): (a) and (b). No, tral Government and not reverted to Sir. The total amount of estate duty their respectiVe States or to field which was due for recovery but not work? recovered on 1st February, 1960 was only Rs. 121 lakhs. The Minister of state In the Min... .,. of Bome Aftairs (Shrl Datar): (c) Assessments are pending in (a) and (b). A statement is laid on .195 cases. the Table of the House. [See Ap- (d) On an average 8300 assessments pendix IV, annexure No. 55.] are disposed of in a year and com- pared with this number, the pendency Consumption of Petrol, Kerosene and of 3195 is not much; but even so con- Diesel Oil etant reviews are made of the pend 2463. Shrl Barish Chandra Mathur: Ing cases by the assessing officers al Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and well as the Controllers of Estate Duty Fuel be pleased to lay a statement and the Central Board of Revenue. showing the total consumption of The following provisions introduced petrol, diesel oil and kerosene oil in the Estate Duty (Amendment) Act, during each of the last 3 years? 1958, would also be of some help in reducing this pendency when the The Minister of Mines and Oil (Shrl Amendmellt Act is brought into K. D. Malaviya): The total consump- force: tion of Motor Spirit, Diesel Oils and ro~ene Oil during each of the Jast (i) a provision has been made for 3 yt!ars were approximately as under: the levy of interest in cases of extension of the time limit Tom. for submitting the statement 1957 3,567.000 of Account; 195R 3,724,000 4,178,000 (ii) Grant of succession certifi- 1959 cate by the Court has been Strike by the State Bank Employees made subject to the furnish- ing of a certificate from the r Sbri Sbree Narayan Das: Controller about payment of I Shri Radba Raman: duty; 24M. Shrlmati Mlnimata: i Shri P.ar!sh Chandra (ill) the Controller is empowered L Mathur: to make a provisional assess- ment on receipt of the State- Will the Minister of Finance be ment of Account without pleased to state: waiting for the completion of (a) the man-hours lost and tlnan- his investigations. cial loss sustained by the State Hank of India consequent on the rf'ceDl Secretaries etc. In Central Government strike of the employees of the Bank; and 1482. Shrl Barish Chandra Mathur: Will the Minister of Bome Aftairs be (b) whether the employee!! who went on strike will be entitled to the ~ea e to state: J,layment of their salanes for the (a) how many Secretaries, Addi- period during which they were. on tional Secretaries, Joint Secretaries strike? 299 (Ai) LSD-3. 13233 Written Answer. APRIL 22, 1960 I Written Answer. 1323" The MInIster or Fbumee (Shrl . IIorarji Desal): (a) 19,25,000 man The Minister of Steel, Mlnea ... Fuel (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) and hours were lost during the recent strike or the employees of the State (b). The demand, allotment and sup.- ply of iron sheets [Black sheets, Gal- Bank of India. No assessment of the loss sustained by the bank has, vanised sheets (Plain) and Galvanised sheets (corrugated)] to Andhra Pra- however, been made, as, apart from desh in 1959-60 are given belo.. : the time and labour which may be involved, no accurate estimate will Demand 35,815 tons really be possible. Allotment 17,061 ton! Supply 1,60! tons (b) The state Bank of India does not intend to pay the employees who The reason for low despatch is that participated in the strike their salar- /the anticipated level of indigenous ies or any other emoluments for the production and imports on which al- period of the strike. lotments were based did not materia- lise. Imports of sheets are being ~ 5l'br if mfiA ~ ti~ t;:r arranged within the limited foreign exchange available. There will be ~ t~~ 15fT ~ ~ ~~ 'WI' however real relief in ths supply ~ ij ,r ~~ ii i ~ 'fit fflT ~ f'll : position when the strip mill in Rour- k;f goes into production. ( ~ ) ;rEli ~ ~ ~ eli q'1': 'q'R ~~ Income-to Department ~ if mf{"q ;;nfa-1I1 ifi ~ ~a ~ Sbri Radha Raman: ~ 'Ilroaf ~ r ~ ~ ~ ; 'q'R r Uti'. ~ Sbri Shree Narayan Du: (~ ) ;jfGf« q ~ ~~~ ~ t L Uhri Prakash Vir Shastri: ~ ~ <:rGf ij- ~i if ~ ~ ~ Will the Minister of Finaaee be rn pleased to state: "PiT !R fC'l' f'firfrrr ~ fiiln" ~ ~ ? (a) whether it is a fact that a large ~ i ~ ~ (?;from) ~ : number of cases are pending for dis- ('ti) ~n ~ if ~ ~ ~r f;of.,f posal in Income-tax Department and huge demands are lying in arrears; I if -qn: (b) if so, the measures taken or proposed to be taken; and ~ ~ ~ ij- ~ ~ i r (c) the number of vacancies of ~ ~r ~ ~r r ~ ~ ~ itT J;fR tR: Income-tax Officers existing on 15th ~ q"{ ~ ;;rrq.ITT I March, 1960, and when they are likely to be filled up? ~ r Sheeta SlIpplied to Andhra " Pradesh The Minister of Finance (SIIri Morarji Desai): (a) The total number UGG. Shri Madhusudan Ra.o: Will of Income-tax assessments pending the Minister of Steel, l\lines and Fuel for disposal as on 31st March, 1959 be pleased to state: was 4,55,872 which represents, ap- prOximately, 28·8 per cent. of the ( a) the demand of iron sheets by total number of assessments for die- Andhra Pradesh Government during posal during the financial year 1858- 1959-(i0; and 59. (b) the extent to which the demand was met and the arrangements made The eftective outstanding arrear by the Government to provide more demand of taxes as on 31-12-58 wu" tron sheets to Andhra Pradesh for Rs. 143·79 crores. various development projects? (b) Measures taken for expeditm& 13235 Written Answers VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) Written Answer. t 3236 tusposal of assessments are indicated emment of India has been opened Mlow: under section 34 of the Income Tax Act, during the last year; and (i) t he number of Income-tax Officers as well as subordinate (b) if so, the reasolU for the &Ame? staft the Income-tax De- in The Hinister of Finanee (Shri . partment has been consider- MorarJI Desai): (a) Necessary infor- ably increased in recent years; mation is being collected and will be laid on the Table of the House in (ii) the progress of disposal of due course. I assessments by the Income- (b) In view of the provision.! of. tax Officers is subjected to a monthly review by the sup- section 54 of the Indian Income-tax Act, such information cannot be dia- erior administrative authori- closed. ties and instructions and guidance are given to them with a view to achieving Post-Graduate 00arlIe In JoamalJ8m better results; U69. Shri M. B. Thakore: Will the (iii) Income-tax Officers are requir- Minister of Education be pleased to ed to give priority to the dis- state: posal of arrear assessments. (a> the names of the universities Senior officers also give them in India conducting examination in guidance in the disposal of the post-Graduate Course in Journa- complicated assessments; and lism; and (iT) eertain selected circles at im- (b) the number of stUdents who portant places have been obtained Degrees and Diplomas in the constituted into group charg- Journalism Course, U ni versi ty-wise, es under Inspecting Assistant durini the years 1956, 1957, ID58 and Commissioners of Income-tax 1959? to provide the Income-tax officers with intensive guid- The Minister of Education (Dr. It. ance and superVlSlOn for L. Shrimali): l a) and (b >. The infor- achieving speedy disposal of mation is being collected and will be usessmlents besides improv- placed on the Table of the Sabha as ing the quality of their work. soon as available. 2. StepS taken for improving ColIec- ti.oa of taxes are indicated in the Houses constructed for Scheduled annexed lOtatemenfl. [See Appendix Castes and Scheduled Tribell .. IV, annexure No. 56]. era~ (e) '17. These vacancies are likelY 2470. Shri Kunhan: Will the Minis- ~ be filled in about a year's time. ter of Home Mairs be pleaaed to state: Income-tax Assessment (a) the number of houses built in Kerala State with the auistance of r 8hrimati Renu Chakravartt,.: Central Government for Scheduled H68. Shri Prabhat Kar: Castes and Scheduled Tribes during 18hri Tangamani: each year from 1952 to 1959; and LShrimati Parvathi Ki1slmaD: (b) the amount sanctioned by Cen- tral Government for each year men- Will the Minister of FlDanee be tioned above? pIeued to state: The Deputy MInister of Heme Ca) whether income tax assessment Main (Shrlmatl Alva>: (a) and (b). el any Miniater or Oftlcer of the Gov- A statement .howing the Central 13337 Written AnstDeT' APRIL 22, 1960 Written AnstDeTB 13338 usistance given and the number of The,. MinIster of Home Mairs (81ar1 houses conlltructed is laid on the G. II. Pant): (a) There was some, in- Table. [See Appendix IV, annexure. crease in the number of stabbing !io. 57]. No central assistance was cases in 1959 but the figures are shbw- anctioned for this purpose from 1952 ing a downward trend this year. tQ 1955-56. (b) The police ar.e maintaining vigilance and have intensified patrol- Bald 1»7 Paklstanl Outlaws ling. 2411. SIu1. D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of _01Ue Mairs be pleased ~ ~~ to state: rt ~ ~ ~ (a) whether it is a fact that 14 : Iflrr 'U:. Pakistani outlaws armed with rifles, """I" ~ m 'til" ~ 'ti{iT f'ti : recently looted a mahajan's shop and made away with ten camels from (Cfi) rn ~i t ~ ~ ~ Gumana Ka TalIa area in the Choh- ~~ it ifN ~ ifint ~r ififq ~ W tan Police Circle of Jodhpur district and reiurned to Pakistan; ~ (b) whether it is Rlso a fact that ~ i t~ aoT ~ ~ i Pllkistani outlaws are reported to 'flT ~ ; have, of late, become very active in ~ said area; and (If) w ~ ~~ '/fiT ~ T (c) the steps taken or proposed to ~ ~ f l'fi ~ flfffiTT ~ ; be taken in this regard? ('Of) ~ ~ crT 'q'if Cfifi ~ The Mmister of Dome Affairs (Shri ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ G. B. Pant): (a) On the night of H)! fl1:fr m.: W;f 17th March, 1960, 14 armed Pakistar.i ~r ~ ~ -; 'JfR nationals raided village Gumana-ka- TaUa in Indian territory and decamp- (50) W ~ i 'fit fcWift ~ ed with some property including 11 +TT Cfii1l i ~ ~ ? camels :tnd two horses. (b) No unusual activity has been H-m It'" (..n qTo .0 q;ft) : noticed. (Cfi) ;;'It ~ I (c) Police vigilance is maintained ~ ~ i ~ ~~~ and monthly meetings are held bet- l ween Pakistani and Indian Police ~ ~~ I officials. The incident in quedion bas been taken up by the local police (lJ) m ('if). ~ srr:a- ifCt officials with their Pakistani counter- ~ parb. (50) ~ mer gm ~ fCfi "ri "ITt Stabbinr Cases in Delhi ~ ~ Cfilq m ~ I U'J2. Shrl D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister 91 Dome Affairs be pleased Opinm to state: 2474. Shrl Rarhunath Singh: Will (&) whether it is a ftJ.!;t that stab- tht: Minister of Finance be pleased bing cases in Delhi during 1959-60 to state: were on the increase; and (a) whether it is a fact that I (b) if ~ the action, ~en to check maunds of opium and more than one them? maund of other. intoxicants were ~ 13239 Written Answers VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Written Answer, 13240 covered at JabaTpur on the 2nd (b) Does not arise. April, 1960; and (b) if so, the details thereof? Allotment of Soft Coke and Bard Coke to Punjab The Minister of Finance (8hrl Morarjl Degai): (a) and (b). Ac- 2477. Shrl Daljit Singh: Will the cording to t ~ information received Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be from the Excise Commissioner pleased to state: Madhya Pradesh, no opium was seiz- ed at Jabalpur on the 2nd .April, 1960, (a) the quota of soft coke and hard but three maunds and thirty seers coke allotted to Punjab during 1959- I bhang and ten seers ganja were 60; seized. (b) whether the Punjab Govern- ~ ~ t~ !fiT ~ ~t ment had asked to increase this quota; and ~ ~ IItT q't,::f ~ : GflIT ~ (c) if so, the action taken thereon? i~ ~ or rr~ 'fir WIT CfiN fCfi : The Minister of 8:eel, Mines and ('fi) ~ ~~ 'fir er~ t Fuel (Sardar 8waran Singh): (a) The qf\:ll, t 'fii t 1 ri,1'f>T ifR ~ '! Tfif:fr:r srm- quota was 16,860 wagons for domestic purposes, small scale industries and ~ ~ ~ t Y.. t - or, 0 if f'liCRT 0l("lI" g.qr ; engineering works, for which soft ~ coke and hard coke are mainly sup- plied. ~ ~ ~ i if; ~~ ~ i~ m( fcrofA ~ ~ ~ ~~ (b) No. ~ 0l:J'lf g-m ?1T ? (c) Does not arise. '!. Q-CfiTq "3I'T (IItT ttf 0 if 0 qi'(f) : ~ ~~ (iifi) i ~ '5I'W 'fir 'filf ~ qf\:ll, ( Zonal Council ) if{t ~ I r-n n~ """ : ~ l{1'i'f-lrlf ~~ 'fir crrnli' ~ ~ ~ ~ "'l'T';o !fio tt ~ ~o ~ ( Territorial Council) ~ I L"'l" "fo tRJI'r ~ rr~ i qf(q'\ ~ t i ~ 'flIT ~~ ~ ~ ;rnr;f cit ~ ~ 'if'1;R (b) ...hether it is a fact that more The Minillter of JI'bm.Dae (Shri than 10 per cent. Itaff stayed away Morarjl Desai): (a) and (b). The OD both these occasions to celebrate Punjab High Court sanctioned, on the the festivals? 21st August, 1959, a scheme of arrangement between the bank and Th.e IIiDister of Rome da1rs (Sbri its creditors, which, inter aliG, autho- 'J. B. Put): (a) No. rised the bank to start its normal banking business after it had obtain- (b) There is no reason to believe ed • licence from the Reserve Bank I aG. ~ India. The bank hu sinee been 13243 Written Answers VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) Written Answer. 132 44 ~ ...... granted a conditional licence on 16th ,. Scheduled Castes and SchednlecJ April, 1960. Tribes Commissioner's Visit to Bombay U85. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Bome AJralrs be pleased H83. Shri Assar: Will the Minister to statE>: of Dome Mairs be pleased to state: (a) how many times the Commilt- alioner for Scheduled Castes and Sche- (8) whether it is a fact that private duled Tribes visited Bombay durin, cars and taxis are prohibited to travel 1959-60; and in Indian territory near Goa border; (b) the places visited by him in that State? (b) if so, the reasons therefor; 'l'he Del)uty Minister 01' Rome (c) whether Government are aware Affairs (Shrimati Alva): (a) FOUl' that poor people and travellers are times. also VLYf:y much harassed by Special (b) Kosbad, Talasari, Talwada, Reserve Police on Goa border; and Murbad, Pawan, Theronda, Asha- garh, Dahanu, Sutarpada, Bombay, (d) if so, whether Government Dohad, Khed Brahma, Poshina, Sanali, have taken any action in the matter? Shri Amirgadh, Chitrasani, Juni Reh alias Ramgadh, Doongarpura, Kari.. pura, Begadivas, Balaram Mahadev, The Mlnfster of Bome AJralra (Shrl Sukhasar Nanibhugadi, Deogarh Baria, G. B. Pant): (a) No; but public and Kathala, Baroda and Vyara. private carriers have to obtain permits to ply within a five mile belt Untouchability (Offences) Act of the border. 2486. Shrl D. C. Sharma: Will the (b) Does not arise. Minister of Borne Affairs be pleased to state the number of persons who (c) No such complaint has been had been prosecuted in Delhi durin, received. 1960 so far under the Untouchability (Offences) Act, 1955 and have been (d) Does not arise. acauitted'! The Minister of Rome Affairs (Shri G. B. Pant): No person was prosecut- ~e e e Castes aDd ScheduJed ed in Delhi under the Untouchability Tribes Commissioner's Visit to (Offences) Act, 1955, durinJ the Punjab period 1-1-1960 to 31-3-1960. HM. SIarI D. C. Sharma: Will the Welfare of Scheduled Castes and Sche- Minister of Rome AJrairs be pleased duled Tribes Jammu and Kashmir to state: In 1487. Shrl D. C. Sharma: Will the (a) how many times the Commis- Minister of Bome Affaln be pleased aioner for Scheduled Castes and Sche- to state: duled Tribes visited Punjab during 1959-60; and (a) the amount sanctioned.o tar under the Second Five Year Plan tor (b) the piaces visited by him in the welfare of Scheduled Caste. and that StIIite? Scheduled Tribes in Jammu and Kash- mir State; and ..,. Depat,. Mildster ", Ro.... (b) the amount spent 110 tar out of AJlah (Sllrlmatt AlYa): (a) Five tunes. these allocatioJUl? TIle Deputy MIDJster of.... Bal1'II (b) Pathankot (twice), . Simla (Shrlmatl &1ft): (a) and (b). There (twice). Dlnanapr and Nilokheri. are RO Sched1i1ed Tribes in Jammu and Papers laid 1956-57 . 5'16 1"82 (iii) GSR. 392, dated the 9th April. 1957-58 . 2'35 1'92• 1960. [Placed in LibraTJI. 1958-59 " 5'81 5'34 See No. LT-2118169.] 1959-60 • 6·u 0'63 t PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEB -Includes expenditure on Other TWENTY-EIGHTH REPORT Backward Classes also for which an expenditure of Rs. 1 :60 lakhs had been Shrl Barman (Cooch-Bihar-Resen- sanctioned. Separate figures of ex- ed-Sch. Castes): I beg to present the penditure for Scheduled Castes and Twenty-Eighth Report of the Pu:lic Other Backward Classes have not vet Accounts Committee on the contract been furnished by the State Govern- for supply of mechanical transport ment. spares. tExpenditure up to 30-11-59. Shri Jaipal Singh (Ranchi West- Reserved-Sch. TribeR): In the light of what the Leader of the House and lZ.0% hrs. Dr. Ram Subhalt Singh, said yester- PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE day, may I request you to direct that the evidence recorded in connection !4ADHYA PRADESH BHUDAN ~ with this repot't be also laid on the BOARD (RECONSTITUTION) ORDER Table? The Minister of State in the Minis- try of Bome Affairs (Shri Datar): I Mr. Speaker: I shall consider. beg to lay on the Table under sub- section (5) of section 4 of the Inter- State Corporations Act, 1957, a copy of ESTIMATES COMMITTEE the Madhya Pradesh Bhudan Yagna Board (Reconstitution) Order, 1960 published in Notification No. GSR 345 EIGHTY-SEVENTH REPORT dated the 26th March, 1960. [Placed in Librart/. See No. LT-21/7/60.] Shrl Dasappa (Bangalore): On the 18th December, 1958, the Speaker AMENDMENTS TO CUSTOMS AND CEN- directed the Estimates Committee in '1'RAL ExcID DUTIES DRAWBACK (GENJ:- the House to investigate the reasons RAL) RULES for increasing the estimates 0It. general service charges of the The MInIster of Revenue and Civil Rourkela Steel Plant. hpeDditure (Dr. B. Gopa" Bedell): I beg to lay on the Table, under sub- I beg to present the Eighty-SeveIlt:Jl aection (4) of section 43B of the Sea Report of the Estimates Committee oa Cuiltoms Act, 1878, and section 88 of this matter referred to the oca- the Central Excises and Salt Act, 1944, mlttee. a copy of each of the following Noti- 1lcation.s makin, certain further 132047 VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Business ~ oj the House D.H brs. , Shri Vajpayee (Balrampur): Is it a I ta(;t that the persons who discoverea. CALLING ATl'EN'l'10N TO A the body in the ornin~ an who went MATTER OF URGENT to the police station to report about PUBLIC IMPORTANCE the discovery of the dead body were MURDER OF A POLICE OFFICER IN DELHI detained by the police"!. Shri G. r. Pant: I have no report Shri Assar (Ratnagiri): Under rule to that effect. 197, I beg to call the attention of the Minister of Home Affairs to the follow- Shri Vajpayee: May I know whe- ing matter of urgent pubic import- ther the hon. MInister will make en- ance and I request that he may make quiries? • statement thereon: Shri G. B. Pant: They detained them "The reported murder of a just for purposes of interrogation and police officer in Delhi on April to find out if they knew more aL(Jut 11, 1960.". it? The Minister of Houle Affairs (Shrl 8hri Vajpayee: They were detained G. B. Pant): On the morning of the for the whole of the day; they wele 11th April, 1960, a report was made at there at the police thana for the WJlUll! Police Station Paharganj that a dead day. bedy was lying in a pool of blood in front of the Nutan Marathi Higher Mr. Speaker: The hon. Minister will Secondary School. On the basis of find out. The suggestion has been this information, a case under Section made. 302-IPC was registered and the Police 8hri G. B. Pant: I shall make en- rushed to the spot to investigate the quiries. matter. On reaching the scene, the Police identified the dead body as be- Mr. Speaker: Instead of waiting !JO- ing that of Sampuran Singh, a Sub- long the hon. Member miiht have sent In..;pector of Police in the Delhi C.I.D. a letter alI'E:ady to the hon. Minister. (Crime Branch) who was living in D. Before he came to the Honse, he must quarter attached to the Pahurganl have known this. Han. Members need Police Sta'ion. Several sharp-edged not hesitate to bring these matters to incised wounds were observed on the the notice of the hon. Minister. After chest and upper part of the body and all, it is their GO'vernment. They can there was also a deep cut on the neck. always bring these matters to the A b:ood-stained knife having a blade notic!." of the han. Minister who wlll about 3" long was found lying under certainly look into all this. the deceased's head. Some blood- stained bath room slippers were also 12.0. hra. recovered. Investigations are in pro- eress. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE 2. It is a matter ot regret that the life The Minister of Parliamentary of S.I. Sampuran Singh who was at- Affairs (Shrl Satya NararD S1aba): tached to the Anti-Cheating Squad With your permission, Sir, I rise to ainr.e 1957 and was reputed to be a announce that Government Bllsinea good officer should have been put to in this House for the week commenc- an end by violent means in such ing 25th April, will consist of:- tragic circumstances. The Inspector- (1) Consideration ot any item of General of Police, Delhi, has announ- business carried over IN.. ced a reward ot Rs. 500 tor any in- today's Order Paper. formation. leadinc to the arrest of the accused. (2) Consideration and passing of the following Bills- 3. The deceased's widow has been given some financial assistance as an The Estate Duty (AInenciznOOt) immediate measure of relief. Bill...... Busineu APR.n. 22, 1960 01 the Houae 13250 DI'l Be. Baraa (Gauhati): The (ii) Annual Report of the hon. lIinister is readine very fast, Hindustan Shipyard Unit- faster than a jet plane. ed for the year 1958-59 laid on tbe Tab:e of the House Mr. SJeaker: It will be laid on the on the 22nd March, 1960, on '·Table. 'l'uesday, the 26th April on a mohon to be moved by Slot Satya Narayan Sinha: I shall Shri T. C. N. Menon; ,read slowly. (iii) Annual Report of the Na- .... The Reserve Bank of India tional Mineral Development (Amendment) Bill, and Corporation Private Limited for the period from the 15th The Supreme Court (Number of November, 1958 to the 31st Judges) Amendment Bill, as March, 1959, laid on the passed by Rajya Sabha. 'fable of the HOUSe on the (3) Consideration of motions for 11 th March, 1960, on concurrence for reference of Wednesday, the 27th April, the following Bills to Joint on a motion to be moved Committees: by Shri Vidya Charan Shukla; and The Delhi Primary Education Bill, and (iv) Statement regarding the purchase of the Uttar Pra- The Children Bill. desh Zamindari Abolition (4) Consideration and passing of Bonds by the Banars Hbdu the following Bills- University, laid on the Table of the House on the 3rd The Hindu Marriages (Valida- March, 1960, on Thursday, tion of Proceedillgs) Bill, as the 28th April, on a motion passed by Rajya Sabha, to be moved by Shri Braj Raj Singh and others. The Delhi Land Holding (Ceil- ing) Bill, as reported by Joint Committee, Shrl B. K. Gaikwad (Nasik): On a point of information, may I know The Manipur Land Revenue and whether the Report of the Commis- Land Reforms Bill, as re- sioner for Scheduled Castes and Sche- ported by Joint Committee, duled Tribes, which has been present- and ed some months back is not to be con- sidered in this session? For, it is the 'l'be Tripura Land Revenue and practice that every year the report Land Reforms Bill, as re- should be considered. If it is not eon- ported blt Joint Committee. sidered this year, then, next time, ~ Discussion on the follow!ng there will be two reports fOl' ('onSl- subjects will also come up at deration at a time. 3 P.M. on dates mentioned:L.. Shrl Satya Narayan 81Dha: There are (j) Annual Report on the Work- still many more months left, and we ing and Administration of shall consider it in the next seSBlon. the Companies Act, 1958, It is not possible to do it in this &eli- for the year ended 31st sion. March, 1859, laid on the Table of the House on the Shri Braj ~ SIDell (}"'irozabaCl): 25th March, 1960, on Mon- May I submit a word? I had given day the 25th April on a noUce ot a motion which you have motion to be moved by Shri been pleased to admit as a no-day- Badakumar Pratap Gug. yet-named motion, on the Sahara tests. Deb Hamra and others; Since It is of international importan.. , 132,SY Reserve Blink of V AISAKHA.- 2, 1882 (SAKA) '.. India (Amendment) . Bill we can through that motion, express 0.11 hrs. ourselves on the tests which are bemg held there, not one, but two, that have BUSINESS ADVISORY COMMlTl'U been conducted there by the French FIFTY-FIRST R!:PoR'r Government. I should request you to find out some time to discuss that TJte MinIster of Parliamentary motion. Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan n a ~ Sjr, I beg to move: Shri S. L. Saksena (Maharajganj): "That this House agrees 'nth I had also given notice of a motion to the Fifty-first Report of the Busi_ discuss the Tariff Commission's re- OE:S:; Advisory Committee present- port On Sugar. ed to the House on the 21st Apdl, Shri Khushwaqt Rai (Kheri): I had 1960." ahlo given notice of a motion .... Mr. Speaker: Motion moved: Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members will "'rhat this House agrees with notice that during five days Wi? are the ~ i t ir t Report of the Busi- having four no-day-yet-named motions Dess Advisory Committee present- ill the next' week. Almost every day. ed to the House on the 21st April, we are devoting two hours to these 19dO." motions. Whatever remains, we shall eertainly take up in the order of prior- Sbri Khushwaqt Hal (Kherl): Sir, I ity. Hon. Members who are interested beg to move: in having their motions taken up ear- 'l'hut lit the end of the motion the lier will kindly intimate to me and following be added:- then I shall consider the relath'€ im- pc.rtance of these and assign them to "subject to the modification that the various datt.'S. the time allotted to the Represen- tation of the People (Amend- ~ t Bill, 1960 be increased !rom 1 hour to 3 hours." 12.10 brs. rn this connection I would like to RESERVE BANK OF INDIA submit that this Bill is not a non-con- (AMENDMENT) BILL- troversial Bill. It proposes to Rive a The Minister of Finance (Shri r~g t which has been denied to cer- M01'lll'ji Desai): Sir, I beg to move for ta;n people under the District Board! leave to introduce a Bill further to Act; this Bill proposes to givl" thf'D a right of voting. The Members amend 1he Reserve Bank of India Act, aI. 1!l:i4. ~ Opposition from U.P., all of them, nrp. interested in taking part in the Mr. Speaker: The question is: discussion. I would, therefore. re- quest that the time allotted for this "That leave be granted to intro- Bill may be extended to 3 houn--that duce a Hill further to amend the is time for the consideration of this Reserve Bank of India Act, 1934." ~ Shri Braj Raj SlDch (Firozabad): I The motion tDlIS adopted. &1110 had liven notice 01 an amend- Shri lIIorarjl DesaI: Sir, r introducet ment to raise the time--limjt to 3 the BiU. hours. On this subject there was an ad- journment motion in the U.P. Aslembly' ·Published in the Gazette of I."dia tra~r inar Part n-Seetion 2. dated 22-4-1960. tIntroduced with the recommendatloo at the President. 13253 Business APRIL 22,1960 AdvisorJl Committee 132 54 [8hri Braj Raj Singh] n~ the Speaker of the U.P. Assembly Shri Rami Reddy (Cuddapah): Not .Dld that he was not au:hol'ised to only from U.P., but other> from beve the matter disc .... ssed in the Andhra also, Sil·. Allsembly because the Election Com- Mr. Speaker: Therefore, the qUe&-- trission was seized of the matter. The tic.n is that one hour shall be extend- Election Commission has passed an ed to three hours. (Interruption.. ). order which is thoroughly unconsti- tutional. And, now, Government are fShri Hajarnavis: I would make (,,11. cC'ming to this House to ttet that ,Irayer to the HOUse and that is that ,,,,'v"('r. The election would ba held Wb might go on sitting Lill we paN on the 24th of this month, day afte1" thi.r, Blll and then take up Privata teT.orrow by giving aULhorlt.v to ihe J\iem bers' Busmess. Antarim Zila Parishacts etc. They bhri Tyagi: It will be wrong in .... p giving voting rights to toe DIstrict pl'im:ip.e. The han. Minisler IS trymg Magistrate, the S.D.M., the S.P. and to regulari.;e an irregularity of either uther cfficers who are under ~ r e em_ the ~ e tion Commission 01' of tr.a ployment of Government. (InteTTup- Sta,.e Governments and ior that pur- tions). l-ose he wanLS the House to g) on Mr. Speaker: ~ are on er ~ i here UBtl1 we pass this Bill. We .;hall dol it OTlly with the tmw. The hal'. Mem- at our convenience. (Interruptions). tlpY" will kindly tell the Eou.'e why Mr. Speaker: We are not c:oncerned more time is necessary. That is all. with that matter now; IJ!t us s.:e in ~ r Braj Raj Singh: That is the re- tnc usual course. a!Cln, SIr. It is a very 1Dlportant mat- Shri Braj Raj Singh: Sir, may 1 ter. submit one word? The anxiety of the The Deputy Minister of La ~ ( "bri Law Minister seems to be th... t. this a~ar a i I have 110 o ~tion if b;Jl ShOUld be passed before :.he 24th. mo\"p time is given. My only prayer Mr. Speaker: The simple point is 1"1 that the matter may be diSPOsc.d of tha L for this Bill the time shall be :I today. hours instead of 1 hour. Now, I will Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): Why? put the amendment to the House. Shrt Rajarnavls: Because we are The amendment 1S for the extensIOn of .nxiouq that the Bill should be passed bme for the consideration ')f the Re- tllill sessiO!l. presentation of the People (Amend- ment) Hill, 1960 to 3 hours. Sbri Braj Raj Singh: Before the II 24th? IShri Rami Reddy: We are not for ~ ten ion of time but we want the Shri llajarnavi!i: If pos3iblc. hefore Bill to be passed today because the the 24th. Andhra Pradesh elections are cominl up early next month. Mr. Speaker: Let U8 see. now will it be possible if we give 3 hours? There Mr. Speaker: The question is: ~ 80 much of other work, the :;:t",solu- ~ at at the end of the motion the tlCm on the Railway Convention Com- mlttee, and then the Discussion and following be added:- VClting on Demands for l!:xce'S3 Grants "subject to the modification tb ..t (RaiJways), and then non-official work tile time allotted to the Represen- tOday. The only question DOW is tation of the People (Amendment) whether 1 hour should be increased to Hill, 1960 be increased tram 1 3 houn. The hon. Minister is willing; hour to 3 hours." be has no objection to a hourd finding that hon. Members want to have rllme The motion was adopted. cliscussion. The hon. Members from H.P. are under the impression that Mr. Speaker: I will now put thI o ~ powers are beinJ li'Yen ...... motion as amended. The ':J'J ~ i i is: ~ Iteso'uno. nil VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 13256 Review Rate Of Dividend Pallable t.1I Railways "'-hat this House agrees with by the Speaker be 3ppoint- the 1!'ifty-first Report of the Busi- ed to review the rate of l.ess Advisory Committee present- dividend which is at present ..6 to the House on the 21st April, payab e by the Rai~ a ]960 subject to the modification undertaking to the General that the time alotted to the Re- Revenues as welJ as o!her presentation of the People ancillary matters in con- (Amendment) Bill, 1960 be in- nection with the Railway (Teatled from 1 hour to 3 hours." Finance vis-a-vis the General The motion was adopted. Finance and make recom- mendations thereon bv the 30th November, 1960; 'mul 12'1'7 hrs. (ij) that this House recomdnda "RESOLUTION RE: APPOINTM!:NT to the Rajya Sabha to .. ~ee OF A COMMITTEE TO REVIEW to associate six Memoera llATE OF DIVIDEND PAYABLE from 'hat Sabha with the IiY HAlLWAY UNDERTAKL.'\fG TO Committee and to com_ G;Jl:NERAL REVENUES. municate the names of the Members so appointed to ~ Minister of Railways (Shri this House." .... 4agjivan Ram): Sir, I beg to move:- Shri Naushir Bhnrucha. "That this House resolves that: Shri Naushir Bharucha (East Khan- (i) A Parliamentary Committee desh): Sir, I haVe! given notice of an consisting of 12 MerrLers of amendment; and I will explain the this House to be nomina'ed purpose of the amendment. My by the Speaker be appoint- amendment is that in the Resolution, ed to review the rate ~ for the words-- dividend which IS at present "the Hallway undertakmg t.l tf1. payable by the Railway General Revenues as well as other undertaking to the General ancillary matters in connection Revenues as well as other with the Railway Finance." ancillary matters in con- substitute: nection wi:h the Railway Finance vis-a-vis the Gen- ··the Railway lilld other publJe Pt"al Finance and 'llake re- uti ity undertakings where Ibe commendations thereon by capital is supplied by Government the 30th November, 1960; as weli as other ancillary mattera and in connection with the finance (If such public utility undertak- (ii) that this House recommends ings." to the Rajya Sabha to agree to associate six Members Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I hay. from that Sabha with the ruled tha' amendment out of order. Committee and ~o com- I have already communicated the municate the names of the matter to the hon. Member. We have Members so appointed to this Railway Conven'ion Committee this House." A once in 5 years and this ConventioD :1Ir. Speaker: Motion -ifI'Oved: fixes the rate of dividend to be paid and its recommendations are acted "That this House resolves that: upon. But the hon. Member wants to (i) A Parliamentary Committee iqclude other public undertakinp consisting of 12 Membera of with Railways. That is an indepen- this HOUSe to be nominated. dent matter altogether. I 32S1 Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Committee to Review Rate of Dividend Patlable btl ~ \ Railwatls [Mr. Speaker] attached to it. These aspects &)eo IIui Naashir Bbara.dta: I ;&ccept have been left untouched. The time your ruling, Sir, But I would !ike has now come when the railway fin- to apeak on the proposition. ances must be placed on a sound Mr. Speaker: That he can do. footing. In the first place, there is some confusion of thought as can be 8hri Naashir Bbarocba: So far as seen from the Railway Convention the Convention Committee of 1954 was Committee Report of 1954 in the coneerned, it has been my impression matter of what is meant by a com- that the work done by it, with all due mercial concern and what is meant by respect to the Committee, was not a public utility undertaking. As tar quite satisfactory. In fact, I may say as the expression 'public utility under- that several of the important questioIl1l takings' is concerned, it has got cer- were completely sids-tracked bv ilie tain definite technical meaning Uld I Convention Committee and it is my shall explain this as I proceed. purpose to direct the attention of the In the tirst place, the Railway Con- House to certain problems which will vention Committee of 1954 linked up confront the new Convention Com- the percentage of contribution payable mittee and which require very ar~ to the general revenues to the capital- ful consideration. at-charge. It has laid down that it Sir, the Convention Committee has \ is desirable that the contribution to decide what will be the contribut- should be eXlJressed as a rate of the ion payable by Railways to the Gen- dividend ill terms of the er enta~ eral Revenues, what will be the per- on the capital-at-charge and thE' centage of such contribution, its re- amount paid annually through a fixed lation to the capital-at-charge what rate ot dividend inclusive of an will be the capital structure ~ Rail- element of interest. I submit that tlm ways; the question relating to the basic recommendation is basically allocation to Depreciation Fund and faulty. If we link the contribution the principles on which 'iuch payable to the revenues to the capital- allo2ations are to be made; the qUe6- at-charge, the general revenues will tion~ of character of the Development be deprived of a legitimate share in Fund and the Revenue Reserve Fund, the surplus of the railways and in the and the purposes for which these profits whiCh the railways make. Also Funds can be used, the rate of return the linking of the contribution to the on new loans, the question of losses capital-a-charge is indefensi- on strategic lines, the question of ble, particularly in view of the amortisation, and the basis for classify- fact that we have not laid down on ing our projects as remunerative :>r un- what principles the structure of the remunerative. These are some of the capital-at-charge has to be deter- main problems which will come up mined. before the committee and I regret to observe that the 1954 committee side- So, the next Convention Committee tracked some of the most important should focus its attention on the ilsues which I have mentioned and I principles for the determination of shall point out how these issues have the capital structure of the railways. been sidetracked and I hope that the Nobody exactly knows, tor instance, Committee which you, Sir, are going to w?at is meant when the 1954 Com- appoin.t nOW will look into them more mIttee talked of over-capitalisation ill earefully. Above all, the basic issue t ~ r~i a It is necessary that the to the consideration of all these prmcIples for the determination of- question9, namely, whether the rail- I over-capitalisation should be Wd way shall be regarded as a commercial down. concern or as a public utility concern . Coming to the question of deprecia- with definite technical implicatioDJ tion which is closely linked to the- J 3359 Raolution re: V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 13a60" Review Rate of Dividend Patlable btl Railwatl_ Question of capital-at-charge, we find allowance made for the purpose of lhat the 11154 committee completely rehabilitation. This straighUine ignored the question of the prniciples metnod has got" the advantage of on which depreciatIon has to be based. simplicity and it will frequenU7 awid It will be observed that the committee the revision of service life of asset&. recorrunended only a depreciation of I regret to observe that the last con- about Rs. 35 crores. This determi- vention committee did not app17 ita nation of the amount of depreciation mind to the scientific principles and was completely arbitrary and com- the new committee that is proposed to pletely hI violation of the well- be appointed by yoU, Sir, should bear accepted regulations for the determina- these facts in mind. tion of the amount of depreciation. It I was shocked when i read the con- ia true that the hon. Railway Minister vention committee report on the himself felt that tne committee had subject of amortization. The com- erred on the side of too little deprecia- mittee has observed that the amorti- tion and therefore decided to increase sation would eventually be of benefit the depreciation from Rs. 35 crores to the railways and the users of trans- to Rs. 45 Cl.·ore:l. My submission IS port alike. They agreed with the that even this amount of Its. 45 crores Railway Board that the time was not is totally inadequlite, apart from the ripe for amortisation and suggested fa(:t whether it is fixed on allY definite that it should be taken up at the time principles or not. Because, if we re- of the next meeting of the convention. collect that in the course of the Second I am afraid that the commitee com- Plan, the total expenditure on rail- pletely missed the meaning and the ways was to the tun!:! of .H.s. 1,125 implication of "amortization". As crores and we should bear in mind the applied in depreciation accounting," fact that a good part of it would be amortization is the method ot charging capital-at-charge. Bearing in mind the capital cost of an asset to operating fact that the existing capital-at- expenses only after the service life of charge is large enough, it will be the asset has been terminated. For found that Rs. 45 crores is too small the i ~ of me, I cannot understand a provision for depreciation. This how this principle can at all be depreciation of Rs. 45 crores is really acccepted in the matter of railwa7" intended to conceal the true condition finances. Resort "to amortization is of the railway finances whiC'h verges usually forced by the inadequacy of on bankruptcy because by reducing depreciation reserve to carry costs of the depreciation to 20 crores they cau retiring assets. But why should there even show a surplus of Rs. 25 crores be any shortage of depreciation more. My OWn i re ~ is tnat reserve at all that you have to fall e~en if we fix the depreciation on back upon amortization? Amortiza- the basis of the straightline method tion can only be justified in cases and if we limit this method only for where as a result of obsolescence due replacements of worn out assets on to scientific inventions or otherwise the basis of original cost, even then unforeseen or premature retirement of this Rs. 45 crores would faU short. assets has to be undertaken. Only in So, the Convention Committee should such cases can amortization be per- look into the depreciation policy and mitted. I think this committee would determine what should be the princi- deal with this matter very thoroughly. ple on which depreciation should be Coming to the development fund determined. I recommend that the and the railway reserve fund, still we Itraightline method which is widel,. are groping in the dark. I do nat" used should be accepted. Added to understand yet what is the purpose of that, there sh"ould be lOme additional the development fund. Whether the 13261 ResoLution re: APRIL 22,1960 Committee to Review 13263 Rate of Dividend Pal/able by Railway' [Shri Naushir Bharucha] development fund is for the purpose position of the Railways and makea of capital expenditure or it is for the correction and rectification of the purpose of major replacements, one financial position very difficult as time ,does not know. pa.;ses. Now, I will take up the question While you, Sir, have been pleased relating to the opening of new lines to rule out of order, my amendment. where the capital-at-charge pays not without justification, I do admit. dividend at lesser rate. I submit that but the fact remains that it is not on11 the concession given by the convention tnP. Railways thnt his House has got .committee, namely, that for a block to think of, but on similar lines we ·of five years the new line should not have to think about all undertakinga. pay any contribution, has no justifica- 'l'hey are all escaping payment of their tion at all and that convention must legltimate contribution to the General go and the general revenues should no H.evenues-the steel plants, the fertili- longer be deprived of this amount. ser plants, the penicillin plants and other:;. MI'. Speaker: The hon. Member ·expectll that within five years it will Mr. Speaker: 'I'he hon. Member make enormous profits. may move a resolution saying that they are all worthless comniercial Shri Naushir Bharucha: I am not concerns, they must pay interest, the,. saYlllg that, Sir. But what do the must pay a partlcular rate of dIvid- commercial comerns do? We do not end, they must pay income-tax etc. It give them relief from the payment of is open to him to DrlDg forward a interest or other charges. resolution lIke that. Mr. Speaker: I believe in the Shri Naushir Bharucha: I have income-tax law some concession is , gIven notice, Sir, or a No-day-,.et- shown to new companies for five named motlOn. You have been plea.. years. en to admit it. 1 have said there that Shrl Naushir Bharucha: Sir, the in all such concerns it is necessary to railways do not pay income-tax. They nrescribe tnt: tinancial J,lrincipies 10 .are not entitled to this concession. govern the capi tal structure, deprecia- tion I':t.:. So far as the loss on &trategic lines .is concerned, I submit that this should M.r. Speaker: It is not part of uu.. be debited wholly to the Defence Budget. That is another way of Shri Naushir Bharucha: Not part of hiding Defence expenditure. thls. The main purpose of my speech is Mr. Speaker: He ought not to J;nake -to indicate that for nearly 12-13 years - a speech on what he is going to mo," .after Independence, the most basic hereafter. ,question, l'elating to ,the railway ftnances remain to be defined on a Shri Naushir Bharucha: 'rhat 1 will ·scientific baS1S. l'h.ere is no justifica- say later on. I am simply referrm« to tion for including all these concessions. 1t just now. It is not only the :kail- wayS who are escaping, all other com- Sir, every year that this Convention mercial concerns are doing the I&IIIe .exilots it deprives the general revenues thing. .of its legitimate share of return on investment and It helps to create a Mr. Speaker: I am afraid' he. 'bigger back-log of accrued deprecia- weakenmg his case. If, on the other :&ion. It (;&nlouftages the true financial band, he refers to some otber CQIl.- 13263 ResoLution 7'e: VAlSAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 13264 Review Rate. of Dividend lIatlabte btl Railwatls cerns, some other public undertakings ~ ~ where all these contributions are made '" (il\'1 The question whether the Railways Shri Achar: Is it in comparison with .nould be considered as a utility ser_ the in::erest that is being paid by the vice or as a commercial service, pro- Railways for so many decades? Let bably may be a technical matter. But us take that into consideration. 'fhere more than the technical side of it I were certain private limited compa- would like to emphasise that it should nies in our country ...... be considered more as a ~i it ser- vice. The commerCial aspect may be Mr. S?eaker: From where are we there. to pay? If our conCei'n is worked on a subsidy, from where is the money to Now let us see huw the railways be found? have been considered in othei' coun- tries also. For example, take lhe in- Shri Achar: There should be a sys- stance of England. I am told that tem of taxation. It is' a section of the the railways there are run at a o~ public that is utilising the railways. and the Government contributes to If you want money for the Govern_ tnem. Here we have been pressing ment to run anything you must have that the rate of interest should be in- taxation for t·he purpose and not uti- creased and that a higher rate must lise any utilitarian service for taxing be paid by them. You were also the people. You are not taxing the pleased to ask a question whether in_ general public for that purpose. You terest should not be paid at all. I am are taxing only a certain set of per- not saying that interest and dividend sons who are travelling. should not be contdbuted to the Gov- ernment. But we have to consider Ch. Raabir Singh (Rohtak): What the more important aspect of the ques- about the investment that We have tion, that is the utility side of it. made? It is a monopoly. No doubt large Shri Achar: Investments have been amounts have been invested on rail- made on roads also. I have pointed ways. It is therefore natural that the that out. Not only that, investments Government should expect some re- have been made on airlines also. turn in some form or some interest. But why should we separate the Rail- Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): But goodl ways alone? We have got other means ; also come. of communications. We have got roads. And what an amount has been Shri Achar: Goods also come. I do invested in this country on roads? not want to deny that. If goods come, Right from the panchayat district no doubt, I would say goods must be boards, municipalities, State Govern_ charged. Every item of goods must ments and the Central Go,rernment to be charged. I would submit to the hon. Railway Minister that coal must the Central Road Fund ihow much be chargerl which b. iike any other money has been invested? Is the Gov- item of goods. ernment or are the local government!! or the panchayat boards e e tin~ any Shrl Naushlr Bharacha: Ht. is ve17 Interest on that? Let us take the air- i i~ 13279 ResoLution ,.e: V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 13280-. Review Rate of Dividend Pallabie bll Railwalls Shri Achar: If the Government Shri Thirumala Rao (Kakinada): want to give any subsidy, let it be Not rouad about Mangalore. eiven directly. Let things be not done unseen. Let Us clearly . show how Shri Achar: In other parts of the much the industrialists are benefiting country you have no railway line at out of it. If some concession is given all. If it is a u.ility service they -nalurally for the development of the shoul,d not be neglected. For that coun ry it is necessary-why should purpose, if from the Railway funds a the Railways suffer fo-r it? The GQV- large amount is not taken away, con- ernmt!nt ~ o bear it. siderable amount will remain it~ the Company-i t i3 not a company What I say is that the Railways are now, of course; it is our own Govern- just like the airline:;, roads or other ment concern. There will be sufficient means of communication or any utility funds for developing the lines every- service and the Railways should not where. be made an instrument of taxation. If we consider the several private In the past we had no plans or any- limited companies which were run- thing of the kind. Wherever people ning these railways, we will find what had the necessity and it was advant- an amount of profit they were making ageous they had the lines. But now on the capital they had invested. They when we ask for lines in other places, not only realised the interest but a ~o all sorts of objections are raised. In probably the capital was realised. No some cases we are told, there is no doubt, all those limited companies port and so no railway. In other hav.. now merged in the Government, places, as Shri Vittal Rao pointed out, but the railway-using public had it is said it would not be a profitable paid for it. I am not urging that no proposition. So, the most important interest should be charged. I am not "aspect is that the railways are a at all going to that extent. What I utility service and should be adminis_ am submitting is that so far as the tered for the benefit of the people. Railways are concerned, they should Shri N. R. Muniswamy (Vellore): be considered as a utility service and It has become a commercial concern fJ:'om that point of view the whole now. administration must be carried on. No doubt, in the earlier stages Shrl Achar: My hon. friend says it lIeveral lines had been opened in is a commercial concern. I do not several parts of t~e country. I am not think even the Railway Minister will urging, as you haVe already ruled, any say it is a purely commercial concern, particular line or any particular thing. I am sure about that. It is clear that On that we have raised half_an-hour if it is not entirely utilitarian, at least discussions and on other occasions we certainly it is not commercial. have raised it. But the point I am Dr. M. S. Aney a~ r May I urging is only this that if it is a utility jUllt remind the hon. Member that service it should not be looked at as when the railway finances were se- if it is a machinery for collecting parated from the i!:eneral finances, the money as a form of taxation. In some understandinl! of the Government and parts of the country We ftnd that there the Members of t.he House was that ~re new lines and doubling of the the railways must be run as a ('om- lines. If you take the railway map it mercial concern, and that at the same will be quite clear to anybody i ~ time it shou'd endeavour to be a utility for example, railway lines have spread concern as far a~ possible. That must trom Cal('utta to Arnritsar, or if you bP. borne in mind. It was to be con- take Bombay. On the northern side of sidered a ('ommE'r('ial concern, and the Bomhay Bnd Kutch and all that-llow H"u!!e "'as the right to see that it it many railway lines are there. run as a commercial concern and on ResoLution re: APRIL 22, ~ Committee to Review 13282 Rate of Dividend Pa1labLe b1l Railways LDr. M. S. Alley) In some parts of the country we . protitai.Ht! lines. I want to know whe- ther and when this policy was gIven have areas where for a hundred miles up by this House and the Quc:;!.ion re- or more there are no railways, and opened. there are people who have not even seen a train. For instance, Mercara 8hri Achar: I conceded the point at in my constituency is 90 miles from the very outset that We need not go any station. T.his is happening into an academic discussion as to whe- because Government is treating thl' ther it is a commercial or a utility railways as a milch cow, going on conclI!rn. getting as much income as possible from them. If at all, some interest An Hon. Member: It is both. may be charged, but nothing more than that. If coal or fOOd or anything Shri Achar: Probably it is more on is carried at a lower rate, the differ- the side of being a utility concern, ence must be paid to the ~ ai a but certainly it is not a concern for No doubt the railways should not be mak:ng proth to the Government. For run at a loss, but they should not be instance, we know that the catering treated as a concern by which the department is run on a no-profit no- Government can tax the people. The loss basis. railway travelling public or the goods carried by the railways should not be 13'12 hrs. considered a source of taxation. Why LMn. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the ChaiT) should that particular class of people utilising the railways be taxed and Shri Warior (Trichur): No profit that income taken by the Govern- and no loss to the consume-rs or to ment? If the Government wants to the Government? tax, let it do so in other ways. Let it allow the subsidy to coal and other Shri Achar: The Government which items, but l'eimburse the railways. is running the railways. The Convention Committee should Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri Warior consider this aspect because railways wants there should be fare-free rail- are one of the most important utility ways now I services, and also, fortunately or un- fortunately, a monopoly. That being Shri Achar: It will be very good if the situation, I submit as low a rate we can reach that stage, but compared as possible should be taken from the to developed countries in the Conti- railways by the Government. nent or America, We are in a very backward condition. We cannot Shri Narasimhan (Krishnagiri): I change it in one day. For instance, want to draw the attention of the the speed is 100 to 150 miles I am • House to one matter which I consider told in the U.S.A. and even in the to be important and I'Clevant in this Continent it is 100 miles, and they context. It is the case of the dis- have noiseless trains too. All that is ' mantled lines. happening because whatever the rail- ways earn is utilised for the develop_ Railway lines dismantled during the ment of ithe railways. But here, on Second War were of the order of 800 account of many factors, the railways : miles. Half of it has been restored, do not get the necessary income and the oither half is awaiting restora- because of the subsidy paid with tion. What is relevant in t i~ con- regard to coal and other items. If the text is that the dismantled lines are railways get it, their earnings will be ~ i not all completely lost. Though the much more, and they can be utilised .... lines are lost, the tracks are there, the for developing the railway system. ft .1. bridges, station buildings etc., an. :13283 Resotutiott Te: V AISAltHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 132 84 Review Rate of Dividend PayaMe by Railways with a little amount of engineering ione when we should have looked effort, the lines can be l'estored. But upon the railways as a public util.ity the buildings etc., have fallen into service; the railways in their infancy: disuse, though in some cases they the railways in their adolescence, the i~t have been used or let out for railways in their adulbhood could some purpose. In most cases, the tiles. have been taken like that, but, now, timber etc., e~e stolen from these the nilways have acquired a kind of places. The railways left the area, maturity. leaving the people in the locality to do whatever they liked with the pro- An Hon. Member: Old age. perty. Though a large amount has Shri D. C. Sharma: I believe this been lost in this way, what is left, demand from the railways that instead and can be considered dead 'capital, of getting a special treatment or that is to say the capital on these 400 some highly favoured treatment or miles of track, can be converted into some such treatment in this field the live capital again. T,herefore, while railways should adopt the attitude of the Committee address themselves to a person who .has attained maturity the evaluation of the total capital of and who is going to stand on his OWl! the railways, t i~ failure of the rail- legs. Therefore, I would say that the ways to act in restorhg t ~ lines, and railways should be treated as a com- the earning a a ~it 01 the lines when mercial concern now. If they are a restored, should also be taken into commercial concern, that does not consideration. mean that they are not going to do Incidentally I would say that the any service to the industry; it does railways would do well to restore not m0an that they are not going tt' these lines not only physically, but, do any service to the Defence Forces; as I said, restore life to the dead it does not mean that they are not 'capital and make it live capital. going to do any service to other Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): I national undertakings. It does not think the most pressing need for this mean like t·hat. These services wm Convention Committee is to simplify persist and will endure" but the rail- the finances of the railways. Unless way finances will be put on a more that is done, I think there is going stable and a more rational basis to be a g~eat deal of confusion so far Unless that is done, it cannot be sltid as the finances are concerned at that the !'ailway finances are as geol! different levels, and sound as they shOUld be. I have seen a great deal of confu- The kind of contradiction that pre- sion between two things. and I think vails at present has been always w;tl- the whole confusion with rpgard to us. For instance, the railways pay railway finances nrises from that fact. dividend to Government at the rate It is this: are the railways a public of 4 per cent. The railways take -.tility service, or are they a commer- loans for development at the rate ot cial service? I believe that the Com- 6 per cent or five per cent or some-- mittee should once and for all decide thing more than that. Why does this it it is within its power, I think it kind of contradiction exist in the rpil- should be within its power, whether ways? It exists only becau8e the rail- we are going to treat the railways as ways want that when they have to a public utility service or as a com_ pay the dividend, they should be mercial service. If that question is treated as a public utility senrice, and resolved, I think most of the problems when they h.-e to get loans, they to which hon. Members amve raterred should be treated as a public utility can be straightened out. I applied service, bllt when they have to d.o my mind to some extent to this pr0- other things, when they have to Il"t blem, and I believe that the time bas money from others, they should be Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Committee tu Review 13286- Rate of Dividend Payable by Railways [Shri D. C. Sharma! treated as commercial services. Thi:; So, I would say that if you want kind of dichotomy which I find in the that the development expenditure 01 railways i3 gOod neither to my COU:'l- the railways should be taken due try nor to lhe railways nor to Ll-te notice of, if you want that new lines future of the railways. should be constructed, if you want I want to urge this in t·!'le light n! that the dismantled lines, to which what I shall state presently. What i~ the hon. Member who spoke earlier the fate of 'tile railways all over the made a reference, should be taken in world now? What is the fate of hand, if all these things are there, the railways in U.K. and in if all these things are to be taken into U.S.A. and in other countries? We account, then the only Way is that find that railway travelling is getting you should try to make the finances more and more out of fashion; rail- of the railways like the finances of way travelling is getting, so to say, any othcr commercial corporation. out of fashion for the present. The Unless th(.lt is done, I think none of railways are now being ~~ by and these things is going to happen. large in some progressive countries of If the railways were a commercial the world for carrying goods, and even there they are suffering a great corporation, the demands made by t·hese persons will be looked into; and deal of competition from road trans- more pas;;enger amenities will be port. Now, our road transport is also given. There will be room for the coming into its own, and you know, construction of new lines, and these Sir, that the road transporters want lines wi!! be constructed at a much that they should be treated in a much more rap:d rate than they are being better and a much more generous constructed now. They will not be fashion than they are being treated asked to construct these lines without now. I can say that as time passes, paying any interl'st on them for some the road transport services are going time. to gain more and more momentum' as !ime passes. and our standard of i~ing mcreases '1hd our per capita income Sir, genius consists in simplifying increases, I can assure you that the things. All these Railway Conven- air travel service is gOing to be more tions that have been there, and all and more popular, and I would say these committees that have been there that the railways will be there only have done only one thing, and it is for carrying goods and that also only this that they are trying to introduce for carrying goods from far off ~ a e more and more of complications into the railway finances. That is not a a~ing into account all these things, thing which should be done. There_ I belIeve that the whole question of fore, I would request the Members of ~e dividend to be paid by the rail_ the Convention Committee to look at ways to the general revenues should this thing only from this angle. I do be looked at from this angle, and they not care how much dividend is goIng should pay a dividend just as any com- to be paid; somebody said that it mercial concern pays a dividend. How should be 3 per cent; somebody else do these commercial concerns pay said that it should be 4 per cent or dividends'? We have, for imtance, so 5 per cent and so on. many autonomous eorporations. We have the Hinduc;tan Machine-Tools Shrl M. B. Thakore (Patan): How Factory ~n other c_porations; they much should it be? are all paying dividends. The Hindu- Ithan Machine-Tools have declared a Shl'l D. C. Sharma: If it is said that sizeable dividend. and so also the we are not entitled to any dividend ~ o a Hotels have declared some for some time to come, I would be amount of dividend. very happy and I would be vf!tY con- .13287 Resolution re: V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Committee to 13288 .Review Rate oj Dividend Payable by Railways tent, but taking all these things into .and we have to finish it before we tab consideration . . . (Interruptions). up the non-officia1 business. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I would Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Where is the request the 'hon. Member to be very urgency to take up the Demands tor 'brief now. We have already exceeded Excess Grants now? We can take 'the time. them upon Monday. Shri D. C. Sharma: If we take into Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Why should .account all these things. and we come we postpone them? Lt was understood ·to the conclusion that the dividend that these two things would be finish- should bE- 6 per cent, I would be ed today. ·content. Shri T. B. Vlttal Rao: Nobody under- Shri M. B. Thakore: At least 8 per- stood in that way. '-cent. Mr. Deputy_Speaker: At least I Shri D. C. Sharma: I would suggest understood like that. very respectfully that we should once ·and for all take ':I decision, so far as ~ o ~ rn f«(I : ~ ~ 'the nature of t!1is undertaking Is con- ~ ~ ~ ;r;:n;l 'fiT ~ ~ cerned. Once and for all, we should 'consider its efficiency and performance ;mr ij' tkr ~ t Ai ~ ~ 1fFffiT t fill . as we do in th0 case of commercial t;cf ~~i ~~~~ undertakirgs, and after having done ~ ~ ~ ~ that. we should see what dividend it \itT m- ij' can pay ~n what dIvidend it cannot i~~ 1l ii!Wrr I ~ 1l 1fFffiT ~ fi!\ ·pay. ~ ~ !fiT ~ i ~ if i ~ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: .. Now, Ch. ~~~~ i ~ ~~ :Ranbir Singh. ~~~~~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ C(1Rf om iJ"lIT t ~ There is no scope for so much of ~ ~~ r If( ~ ~ ~ i ~ arg en~ and debate here. In this case. only a committee is to be ~~ r i ~~~~~ ·.appointerl Which will go into the ~ I ~~~ i rr~t r . question. Hon. Members are taking ~ ~ ~ ~ cup the question of opening of new f(1lf1lf«i n- railway lines and other questions. t~~ I ~~i ~ 'Thcy are not at all relevant at this ~~~ ~ I ~~ i i stage. If any hon. Member wants to ~ ~ ~ bring that up, I would request him pr 'IT m Itii!rit not to do it. If any other thing is to mrt ~ vff, ~ 0 't -T {i{ fii? : ~ 'lit ~ CfiT ~ $ ~ t I iR i~ i R ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ : ~ rna ~ fct; ~ 0fiTlf ~ if, ~ ii r ;l ~ ~ ~ t ~ ~~~ ~t ifr ~ ~ ~ if, 0fir0IT ~ 'lit ~ ~~~~~~i ~~ i~~~ ~~~~ 1FR ~ Cj'Cffi ~ ~ ifi@';;@' iiIT ~ t I firnrn if, ~ ~ WR ~ CfiT ~ ~ ~ fqm WIT \ifT1i ffi ~ ~ i ~ ~~ ~ ~ 'i{!o ~ i~ ~ : ~ 0fi1lit0Affr t t~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ iJT rrW iI"1;ft ~~ ~ if, ~ m'Efli'fiTm $T I 1l oirn ~ ~ I ~ ~ iI"1;ft ~ 4't ffi 1l ~ t I ~ ~ ~ \ill fu1t ~~ ~~t t ~ ~ ~~ t i~~~~~ ~ 'fiT ~ ~ 'ltrnT ~ I ~ The motion was adopted. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: "That· a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,288 be granted to the President to make good an excess on the grant in respect of 'Revenue--Ordi,1ary DEMANDS FOR EXCESS GRANTS Working Expenses-Operation (RAILWAYS), 1957-58 other than staff and Fuel' for the year ended the 31st day of March, Mr. Deputy-Speaker:. The House 1960." will now take up voting on the Demands for Excess Grants in respect DEMAND No. 9--REVENUE-ORDINARY ()f the Budget (Railways) for 1957-58. WORKING l!:XPENSES_MISCELLANEOUS !:XPENSES. Motion moved: DEMAND No. 4--REVENUE ORDINARY Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: WORKING EXPENSEs-ADMINISTRATION "That a sum ot Rs. 15,88,214 Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: be granted to the President to "That a sum of Rs. 44,66,228 make good an excess on the grant be granted to the President to in respect of 'Revenue---Ordinary make good an excess on the grant Working Expenses-Miscella- in respect of 'Revenue--Ordinary neous Expenses' for the year end- Working Expenses-Administra- ed the 31st day of March, 1960." tion' for the year ended the 31st DEMAND No. 12-REVENtrE-DrVIDEND day of March, 1960." PAYABLE TO GENERAL REVENUES DEMAND No. 4--REVENuE-ORDINARY Mr. Deput,-Speaker: Motion moved: WORKT"lG EXPENSES-REPAmS AND MAINTENANCE. "That a sum of Rs. 15,74,370 be granted to the President to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: make good an excess on the grant in respect of 'Revenue--Dividend "That a sum of Rs. 3,67,54,149 be payable to General Revenues' for granted to the President to the year ended the 31st day ot make good an excess on the grant March, 1960." in respect of 'Revenue--Ordinary DEMAND No. 15-CONSTRUCTION OJ' Working Expenses-Repairs and NEW LrNEs--CAPITAL AND DEPRECIA- Maintenance' for the year ended TION RESERVE FUND the 31st day of March, 1960." Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: DEMAND No. 7-REVENUII--()RDINAItY "That a sum of Rs. 15,55,279 WORKING EXPENSzs-OPERATION (Fum.) be granted to the President to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: make good an excess on the grant in respect of 'Construction of "That a sum ot RI. 56,04,858 New Lines-Capital and Deprecia- be granted to the President to tion Reserve Rund' for the year make good an excess on the grant. ended the 31st day of March, In respect ot 'Revenue-OrdinarJ 1960." 299 (Ai) LSD-S 13297 Demands APRIL 22, 1960 For Excess Grants (RaiZwaJ/') DEMAND No. 16-OPEN LIm WORKS- Shri Assar (Ratnagiri): I am mov- ADDITIONS ing my cut motions. Nos. 18, 19, 20, 22, 27 and 28. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: 27 is out of ''That a sum of Rs. 5,09, 15,374 order. He may move the othen. be granted to the President to make good an excess on the grant N on-payment of overtime allowance in respect of 'Open Line Works- to staff in Bhusaval Workshop Additions' for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1960." Shri Naoshir BlLarucha: I beg to move: DEMAND No. 17-0PEN LINE WORKS- REPLACEMENTS "That the demand for an Excesoi Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: Grants of a sum of Rs. 44,66,228 in respect of 'Revenue Working Expenses-Administration' be re- "That a sum of Rs. 5,66,"5,048 duced by Rs. 100." (1). be granted to the President to make good an excess on the grallt Increase in the consumption oj coal in respect of 'Open Line Works- Replacements' for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1960." Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: I beg to move: May I know what particular cut motions are going to be moved'! "That the demand for an ExC'esi Grant of a sum of Rs. 56,04,858 in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary Shri Naushir Bharucha (East Khan- Working Expenses-Ope:'ation desh) : My cut motions were intend- (Fuel)' be reduced by Rs. 100." ed to concentrate the attention of the (21) . ldinister at the time of his reply. I am moving my cut motion No. 1 only. DeLa'll in the examination of the re- port of 'Uniforms Committee' Shri T. B. Vittal Rao (Khammam): 1 am moving my cut motion. Nos. 21, Shri T. B, Vittal Rao: I beg to 23, 24, 25 and 26. move: ''That the demand for an ExC'ess Mr. DepUity-Speaker: 26 is not of Grant of a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,288 order. in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary Working Expenses-Operation Other than Staff and Fuel' be 8hri Aurobindo Ghosal (Uluberia): 1 am moving my cut motions Nos. 10 reduced, by Rs. 100." (23) to 17. Compensation paid for goods lost or damaged Mr. Deputy-Speaker: But 10 is out of order. He may move 11, ~ 13, Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: I beg to 14, 15, 16 and 17. move: Shri Warior (Trichur): I am mov- ''That the demand for an Excess Ing my cut motions Nos. 29 to 33. Grant of a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,288 in respect- of 'Revenue-OrdInary Mr. Deputy Speaker: 31 and 29 are Working Expenses-Operation out Of order. He may move cut mo_ Other than Staff and Fuel' be re- tions Nos. 3D, 32 and 33. liuced by RaJ. 100." (24) Demands VAlSAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) For Ezeess Grants 13_ (RaUtD4l/') Delays in the disposal of cases for Failure to check pilferage from Rail- pal/ment of provident fund and :val/ Stores and godowns. gratuitl/ to emplovees Shri AarobiDdo Ghosal: 1 beg to Shri T. B. VittaJ Rao: -I beg to move: move: "That the demand for an Excess "That the demand for an Excess Grant of a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,283 grant of a sum of Rs. 15,88,214 in respect of 'Revenue.Ordinary in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary Working Expenses-Operation other Working Expenses_Miscellaneous than Staff and Fuel' be reduced Expenses' be reduced by Rs. 100." by Rs. 100." (15) (25) Failure to prevent loss and damage to Recruitment of employees in the consignments South-Eastern Railway Shri Aurobindo Ghosal: I be& to 8hri Aaroblnde Ghosal: I beg to move: move: "That the demand for an Excess "That the demand for an re ~ Grant of a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,288 Grant of a sum of Rs. ~ in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary in respect of 'Revenup-Working Working Expenses.Operation other Expenses-Administration' be rc- than StafT and Fuel' be reduced deed by Rs. 100." (11) by Rs. 100." (16) Failure to provide regular johs to ! he ~ a in payment Of Provident Fu1td paid apprentices and temp0Tnry C'rn- amounts loyees Sbri Aurobindo Ghosal: I br!g to Shri Aurobindo Ghosal: I beg to move: move: "That the demand for an ~ "That the demand for an re ~ Grant of a sum of Rs. 15,88,214 Grants of a sum of Rs. 44,66,28a in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary in respect of 'Revenue-Working Working Expenses-Miscellaneous Expenses-Administration' be re- Expenses' be reduced by Rs. 100." duced by Rs. 100." (12) (17) Repairs and maintenance of 1st class coaches in South-Eastern Railway N ~e to repair passenger arria e~ TUnning on Malabar Coast e or~ Shrl Auroblndo Ghosal: I beg to tne advent of monsoon move: Shri Warior: I beg to move: "That the demand for an Excess Grant of a sum of Rs. 3,67,54,a9 ''That the demand for an Exceg" in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary Grant of a sum of Rs. 3,67,54,149 Working Expenses-Repairs and in respect of 'Revenue.Ordinary Maintenance' be reduced by Rs. Working Expenses-Repairs and 100." (13) Maintenance be reduced by Rs. Wastage of coal 100." (30) 8hri AarobiDdo Ghosal: I beg to I1tcrease in the consumption of coa! .ove: Shri Warior: I beg to move: ''That the demand for an ETCeS! ''That the demand for an Excess Grant of a sum of Rs. 56,04,858 Grant of a sum of RB. 58,04,858 in in respect of 'Revenue.Ordinary rr!spect of 'Revenue Ordinary working ExpeQlles-Operation Working Expenses.Operation (Fuel)' be reduced.:t>y R!I. ]00." (Fuel)' br! reduced by Re. 100." (14) (32) 13301 Dem4ncU APRIL ZZ, 1"860 For E:rce .. G1'ants (RailtDati' ) Failure to check damage, pil/em!}/! Preparation 01 estimates for e:rpenn;,- and loss of consignments ture on replacements on open .in.'c Shrl Warior: I beg to move: Shrl Assar: I beg to move: "That the demand for an Exce&ii "That the demand for an Excess Grant of a sum of Rs. 1,43,29,288 Grant of a sum of Rs. 5,66.95,046 in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary in respect of 'Open Line Works- Working Expenses_Operation Replacements' be reduced by HI other than Staff and Fuel' be 100," (28) reduced by Rs. 100." (33) Maintenance and repairs of first clan Mr. Deputy_Speaker: These cut coaches motions are now before the House. Shri Assar: I beg to move: Shri T. B. Vilial Rao: Before I e~ "That the demand for an come to my cut o~ion which haa Grant of a sum ot Rs. :i.67,54,14g been ruled out, I will say a few worda in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary about the other demands. It is stated Working Exp')nses-Repair:'1 and that the excess grants asked for art' Maln1pnance' be reduced by Rs, duE' to the extra expe:1diture on the 100." (18) consumption of coal. There are two Maintenance of a.tomatic signals in )'casons on account or which the in_ Bombay city crease arises. One is the increase in the price of coal and the other is the Shrl Assar: I beg to movp: increase due to consumption of coal. Consumption of co!!.l on Railway con- "That the demand for an Eltces.s stitutes about 16 per cent of the total Grant of a sum of Rs. 3,67,54,141J expenses. Realising the enormous ex- in respect of Re en ~ r inar penditure that is involved on account Working Expenses_Repair; and. of the consumption of coal, there hal Maintenance' be reduce:! by Rs. been a fuel economy enquiry commit- 100." (19) tee, Fortunately, the Chairman of that committee is now the Chairman Failure to reduce ezpenses Oll fuel of the Railway Board. I hope and trust that the several recommenda- Shri Assar: I beg to move: tions that have been made will be put into effect But today what iJI happening? Coal is shifted from Bihar ''That the demand for an Excess and Bengal coal fields to the south. Grant of a sum of Rs. 56,04,858 The coal transported through the in respect ot 'Revenue-Ordinary railway wagons are graded and they Working Expenses-Opera tion are stacked separately but ~ e coal (Fuel)' be reduced by Rs. 100." tha' was brought by the steamers and (20) ships from Calcutta port of Madras, Cuddalore and other places are not Failure to mtntmlSe loss, pilferage or properly graded and they are not pro- damage to conrignment3 perly stacked according to lhe gradel. Shri Allar: I beg to move: This coal is used in the locomotives in bulk with the result that the coal ''That the demand for an Excess that is to be used for locomotives of Grant of a sum of Rs. ~ passenger, express or mail trains are in respect of 'Revenue-Ordinary being uS!:'d for locomotives of goodl Working Expenses-Operation otbet" also. Inferior Q.uality of coal can be than Staff and Fuel' be reduced used in goods locomotives. Now, be- by Rs, 100." (22) cause a! this mixture what is happen- J3303 Demancb VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) For Ezcess Grants 13304 (R4ilwalls) ing is that fox goods trains we are installed at Kothagudium-the ser- uaing a certain amount of superior vicing station is Bhadrachalam Road. quality coal thereby incurring extra I do not know what delays the instal- expenditure, and for passenger, ex- lat.on of this washery. I would like press and mail locomotives we are us- the Minister to look into this aspect ing a certain amount of inferior variety seriously, in view of the fact that the at coal which results in engine fail- expenditure involved in the workins ures. When there are engine failure!;, of the railways includes 16 per cent. naturally, extra expenditure is in- of the expenditure due to coal. volved. The other aspect of this question is, Then I come to the next Demand, who is the Railway Officer who ins- Demand No.8. My cut motion is pects the supplies made by the vari- No. 23. When Supplementary Demands ous collieries to see whether the sup- were being discussed here last year, plies are made according to the pre- the han. Mnister in reply to a point scribed grades. My information is raised by me as to why there has that in the coalfields in the north, in been such a considerable delay in the the Bihar-Bengal region, they select ~ a ination of the report submitted erade II coal whereas payment :is by the Uniforms Committee replied made on t.he basis of selected grade I. that he was not aware of that and that Nobody has been able to find this out. he would apply his mind to that re- This has been gain" on for some years. port. One year is over. In reply The coal that is being supplied to to a question put a little over a month the Railways is not thoroughly and ago he replied in the same way, he properly inspected, with the result !':aid that it involves a lot of tlme. that the rate applicable for a better Is this the way of dealing with reports. variety of coal is charged for an The appointment of a committee ill inferior variety of coal. I want that based on certain grounds. '.rhere was a thorough enquiry should be conduct- dissatisfaction among the rallway em- ed into this question. This is not a ployees because the supply of uniforms small sum. If the whole thing i5 was not unifonn all over the rail- worked out, it comes to some lakhll ways. In some zonal raiiways som'l! of rupees. ratetl'ories of employees got unitormll whereas in some other zonal railways An Bon. Member: Crores. the same categories were denied that Shri T. B. Vittal Rao:. Therefore, facility. On account of this the whole I would like to know what is the question was remitted to a comm1t- mach:nery that is going to be set up tee. It was a departmental comm1t- for the proper inspection of coal. If tee. I do not know what rCCOln- there are railway wagons at the re- mendations the committee made, be- ceiving ends we can check properly, cause we are told that the reporc but proper checking cannot be done could not be supplied to us beCU\L,>e in ships because all grades are mixed it is only a departmental committee. up and stacked in the ships. While they can come here for Grants, they say that the recommendations 01 a departmental committee regarding One of the recommendations ma:ie uniforms could not be supplied to hor.. by the Fuel Economy Enquiry Com- Mambers. I have the matter at that. mittee was that washeries have to be set up so that the grade of coal that is supplied could be uniform. That is What about the examination of the Q very good recommendation made by report? Is it such a huge report, is the Committee which should have it such an important report that it been implemented straightaway. But requires more than two years to eza- IK) far nothing has been done for in8- mine and arrive at some conclusions? taIling a washery. For example, it J am compelled to _y, Sir, thouIh ...85 stated that a washe!'J' hal to be reluctantly, that t1WI rdedl littl. 13305 Demands APRIL 22, 1960 For Ezcess Grants 13 (8411101l'll_) [Shri T. B. Vittal Rao] credit on the efficiency of the Rail- on the platforms blocking the move- way Board. I hope and trust that at mf"nt of passengers and inconvenienc- led.'>t now t.he cxam,natlon of thOlOe jng them. I must say that most of reconunendations will be completed the thefts that occur are due to such and the results as to whether they carelessness. I hope now at least the accept them or not will be mad. Railway Ministry will draw some les- known to \18. sons and see that these things are reduced. Then I come to my cut motion No. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: May 1 hope 24---compensation paid for goods lost now that he will be very brief? or damaged. There has been a spe- cial drive on the Railways for the 14 hn. disposal of refund claims, and thele- fore this extra expenditure has been Shri T B. Vittal Rao: I will be incurred. This is a very good thing. very brief. I come to Demand No. 9- Are the Railway Administrations ana my cut motion No. 25 relating to the Railway Board drawmg any les- delays in the disposal of cases for pay- sons from these cases of loss due to ment of provident fund and gratuity goods damaged during transit or when to employees. Sir, I know that con- they are kept in goods sheds anci par- siderable delays are there. Whenever cel offices? Year after year some We ask anything in this House, we crores of rupees are going from the are told that a meeting has been con- Railway Exchequer. Special ri ~ vened of the Financial Advisers and are there. The Railway Proteetion Chief Accounts Officers of all the Force has also been there. With all zonal railways presided over by the that, Sir, this is increasing. Financial Commissioner and attended by the two Deputy Ministers and the SUi Tyagi (Dehra Dun): Every Minister. What is the result? They day. have taken certain steps to expedite, but I tell you that even today in the Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: My hon. Central Railway the provident fund friend, Shri Tyagi says: "every day". accounts are not posted properly and Sir, are we not to draw lessons from in the case of some classes the accounts such things? Are we not to think lie pending for three years and four and apply our minds to this problem years. Mter the merging of the vari- and find out why this is happening? ous railways into zones and after the There is a simple case. Even perish- formation of zonal system of railways, able goods and valuable parcels are the accounts have not been regularis- thrown on the platforms for a num- ed in the matter of provident funds. ber of hours. As soon as the tram Formerly, after a certain period, say, tUTives the parcels are unloacied and six months after the annual accounts left on the railway platforms withou.. are closed, every railway. employee any shelter. Firstly, beeause they lie used to be supplied with a statement in the open they are likely to be of account wherein his contribution as damaged; secondly, when they are well as the contribution of the rail- thrown on the platforms uncared tor, ways used to be shown. But now- naturally, thefts take place. So much adays these statements are not being of extra expenditure is incurred in handed over to the railway employeee other directions. Cannot these things regularly. Why should a railway be put in the parcel offices where employee wait for a number of dayw there is accommodation? Cannot the or months to get his dues? In one parcels be removed immediately and case, it is stated. that a person has to placed in the parcel offtces? These wait for one or one and a half years things are not done. On the other to get the gratuity. Why such delayI hand, these things still continue to lie should occur, I fail to understand. In 13307 Demands V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) For Excess Grants 13308 (RailtDatls) some cases, when application was for our defence and many other mat- made, it was said that the where- ters. Many other questions will arise, abouts were not known. It was in and I therefore, request the Govern- the case of a Class IV employee-a ment to see that this e~tion of rail- gangman. The gangman have gone way link is not taken up as a single, and the amounts are lying still there? isolated case. There are many other These delays should be reduced and disputes pending, say, for instant::e, the amounts should be disbursed ex- the canal waters dispute, the financial peditiously. disputes, etc. All of them could be put together. I recently asked some railway em- I would love to come to friendly ployees as to why the response to the pension scheme fonnulated by the settlement or arrangement with Pakis- tan so that both Pakistan and we can railway authorities was so poor. They prosper and progress together. We said that they do not even get their are a big continent. We want to be own money from the porvident fund one country, if not politically, at least regularly and that it takes montha in other aspects, and be friendly to- and months to come; they added that wards each other. We want to build at this rate, their pensions could be up this continent and give all types sanctioned only very late after pro- of amenities to our citizens as other longed delays. Sir, you are looking countries are giving to their people. at me, and I close. I request the So, if both of us progress and deve- railway authorities to see that the lop, it will be very benefiCIal, and efficiency of the department and of towards that end, it will be good :it the railway administration as a whole some overall arrangement or settle- and of the Railway Board is increas- ment is made with Pakistan. But to Ed. settle only the question of the railway Mr. Deputy-Speaker:. Shri Auro- link on an isolated basis will, I am b;ndo Ghosal. sure, be risky. I wish the Govern- ment would consider my suggestion. Shri Tyagi: Sir, I wish to say Just a few words in a minute or two. Dr. M. S. Aney (Nagpur): Sir, I want to put one question. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There are Shri Tyagi: Sir, I do not want to many hon. Members who want to put make a speech, but there is one sug- questions. I shall come that side. gestion which occurs to my mind, and Now, I call upon Shri Aurobindo 1 just want to emphasise it. The other Ghosal. day the Minister said that he waa considering a direct railway link to Pakistan. I would suggest that this Shri Auroblndo Ghosal: Sir, I have question may not be treated as one moved cut motions Nos. 11 to 17. I single question, or an isolated ques- would like to mention certain points tion. I would suggest to the Govern- made in them. We do not know whe- ment to take it up no doubt, but to ther there is any standard or any take it up along with other mattel'll method as regards the recruitment, which are hanging fire for a long time. promotions and transfers of the rail- If there is a total settlement of all the way employees at least in the south- other matters, the question of a direct eastern and. the easter railways. From railway link might also be looked into our experience we have found that and it may be taken up with all these transfers BIld recruitment and other questions. Otherwise, my fean conftnnations are made without any are that if the question of a direct link method and without any principle. to Pakistan through India is taken up on an isolated basis and gets through, Recently, two items of Dew's have it would perhaps not be vay eongenial come out in the newspapers. I woulcl 13309 Demand. APRIL 22, 1860 FOf' ExceBl Gran" I33 I() (RaUWall') [Shri Aurobindo Ghosal] like to mention them. One waiil about found no fans, no lights and no water. 83 draftsmen and estimators in the We drew the attention of the authe- south-eastern and the eastern railway. rit:es to this matter at the Howrah These draftsmen got training under station, but they were unable to re- the Ministry of Labour for 18 months pair either the fan or the water-sup- and after that they were appointed in uly system. Almost all the suburban the railways. There, they worked as trains run without lights. They are apprentices for six months and then running late. Though the trains have they appeared in the railway exami- been given sufficient running time, nation and passed it. Thereafter they still, they are running late. Of course, served the railways since 1957. After in the statistics of the Railway Minis- three years, an order to debate was try, we find that the running time is issued by the Railway Board that no gradually improving. It is said that draftsmen or estimators will be taken the trains are running according to in service, that is, those draftsmen time and regularly. I would like to and estimators who have not passed submit that though the guards' jour- out of the Madhupur training school nals may give the correct time, if those will never be allowed to remain in journals we compared with the regis- service; with the result that these ters maintained by the Assistant Sta- persons are now on the point of re- tion Masters, the hon. Minister will trenchment. That item of news has find that there is a gulf of difference come in the papers. I request the and that the time as shown by the hon. Minister to consider their case, guards' journals is not the real run- because, after having training under ning time of the trains. another MinLstry and also after hav- ing served the railways for the last About wastage .f coal, one aspect three years and also after passing an was referred to by my hon. friend examination held by the railways, they Shri T. B. Vittal Rao, but I shall refer should not be retrenched. I do not to another item in regard to that sub- know why they should be retrenched ject. That lies in my own constitu- aftcr having put in such a long service. ency. There are about 20 siding lines. Every day I find that the engine dri- There is another point. That also vers sell the coal from the engines has come in the newspapers. In to hundreds of people and take money Kharagpur, an advertisement in the in return. Formerly, there was a sys- papers was given for several posts in tem by which a driver used to give the railways. It was about two years away coal in exchange for eggs and ago. 5,000 appliC::ltions were received. roconuts. Nowadays, they are actual- Out of them, 2,000 candidates were ly selling coal from the engines. I called for interview. Out of them, want to know how much coal is given 1,000 were asked to sit in the exami- by the railways to the engine drivers nation. Then out of them, 200 or 300 toO pilot the engines and whether it ia passed. But none of them have been J{iven on time basis or mileage babis. appointed to the service tl.ough two I want the hon. Minister to take into years have passed since then. This consideration all these factors. is another disappointment for the per- The Deputy MInister of Railways sons who applied for. the posts and (Shrl S. V. Ramaswamy): Where is also passed. this taking place? Regarding repairs and maintenance Shrl Aurobindo GhosaI: In the of first class coaches in the south- Fouth-eastern railway, in between eartern railway. I should like to men- Rowrah and Uluberia. tion that the conditions of coaches in the south-eastern railway should be Mr. ~ ea er The hoa. improved Just about a fortnight .'0, 'Kember baa been watchina that: ~ I was travellinl OIl that rallWl7. 1 tar. 13311 Demands VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) For Excess Grants 13313. (Railways) Shri Aurobindo Ghosa.l: My house which I made applications in 1953 and VI just by the side of it, in the midst 1 received the money in 1958. Of 1)1 the industrial area. In my consti- course, in one case I got the money tuency there are about ten jute milia in one year but two other cases took and three cotton mills. Naturally, I a longer time. Generally it takes a pm aware of all these things. to 6 yeaI'll to get the provident fund A1J regards stores and godowns, it amount. In the caSe of one of my is coming almost daily in the news- relations, who was an officer in the papers. that these are the centres railways and who died some two years from which all the engineering arti- ago the matter is still pending and r.les of the railways are taken away his dependants have not yet received and sold in the market. Also, there the provident fund money. I am not WIiS some quarrel between the GRP. referring to it as a personal case. I 8mI Bengal police who will catch only want to draw the attention of the these thieves. So, for some time no- hon. Minister to the fact that if the body caught them and they went 0.0 provident fund amount is not paid in· merrily with their thefts. After that, proper time to the retired employee. there was some settlement and some then It ceases to be of any use to· thieves were caught on the grand them. trunk road when they were carrying railway goods on trucks. So, more ~~ ~~ ~ attentio.l should be given to these ;to ~ 'R AA ~ "SffifICf ~ ~ I tor~ ~ Q ~ ~ i t ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ I j 'i t l' , Ii Ai- ~ ~~ ~ 'ff i .;!ii i __ I o i ~ ~r i r Ai- ,E ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ 1i ! i I :; 'Ii Z J!: :g1: t: ~'''".tIC' ~ N- N ..:I , ~ ~ ~~~~ - i~~t 11 ~t ~ ~ ~ ..:- i' ~tr ~tr CI 11IW- ~ ~~~ ~ ~ (It' ~f' ! t IJr f! ~'i tfiCt~ IF i ~~ i~ ~ t ~ i~i i tff- G:e ~ ~ 1ir; ! !: 1: ~ ~~~ i: It: ~If 1Ct i ~ t~~l ~~ ~ Jt Jp.'i ~~t~~ i Jt IV cE ~ ~~~~ ~~ i . ~~ ~ rr ~ ~ fl, ~ ~ t ~ ~ !.1i ' .. '!< ~ 1 I< ~ I t i "..~ ~ E, t Et If ! ~~ ~ ~i t~~ ~ 2 l ~ cl! ~r:cl! ~jy; E ~- 'Ii (It' rii- 1 ff - r r: !Sf 1i Ii ~~ P' 4U>' ~ 1t; ~ ~ ~t= Q 1,t ~0li£l ~- IIU:I ~ ~ 116'i ~ ~ Jt 'i i - 'Ii i tff- ~~ ~~ ~ ([. 1ir; ~~ - ~i ,, rY 4U>' 10~~ 'Ii cl! If lIP ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ i ~ t ~'Ii ~Ii ~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~i ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Ei ~~ ~~1i 'Ii ~., rr'\ I .; $ .... i ii i ~ -18' ~~ Ifv ~ i~ rt' it:i; Ir'liii ;g ! rr'\ 'Ii ~ i ~ ~ ... i!!l t r 1t;~ tt ~ i~~ ~ ~t ~Iff- ., i .; ~~ 133 15 Demands VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) For l::ccess Grants 13316 (R4iltDalls) Shri Nallsh1r Bharllcba: Sir, I shall ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ t siR it; ifi1t;rrU be extremely brief. The first point ~~i ~rnt ~~ tt that I desire to make is non-payment of overtime allowance to the staff ia. ~ IF"{ ~ if ij- lffif \m ~ ~ ~ I Bhusaval workshop. I am told by one qm ~ ~ ~ f'ti ~ lffif ltiT An Bon. Member: Why should they? With regard to fuel consumption, the last point, I want to know whether Shrl NaDShir Bharucba: May I sug- it is possible for the Railways to have ,est that the hon. Railway Minister their own collieries so that they can and the officers should abandon their maintain quality control and be saloons for six months and travel the assured of a regular supply. Why is way the masses and other people are it that we are not having our own travelling. Then they will soon dis- source of coal so that-if we have our cover these defects and know that own collieries-from that we can be nothing is being done about them. assured of a regular supply of coal? An Hon. Member: He knows it well. Another Hon. Member: His clothes '''IT ~~ ~ ("11<1111«1) : 'd"'lT- will be spoiled. ~ ~ ~ ;;ft if ;;it arffi ~ Shrl Jagjlvan Ram: I travel by ~~~~ ~ ~i i ~ first-clas.. 'ti' Shri JagJlvan Ram: I would like to "'" ~t i ~ : ~ ~ ~ W:f'ff intervene at this stage so that such ~~~i r~iti ~ misunderstandings do not prevail ~ r ~ 'q'l1f ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I aN ifiT among the hon. Members. There is no question 01 any corridor and no aT 'fi"Uar X0 lIT ~ 0 0 tfu;r '1>1" W Mr. e t ~ ea er May I know An Hon. Member: It is half a~t how much time the han. Minister Two. would require? Mr. ~ t ea er The time i:; Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: About ten up. That is why I wanted to know or fiftE!(>n minutes. the desire of the House whether the Members want me to take up the non- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Is it the official busin'_'ss or to finish this and desire of the House that we may push take up the non-official business after back the non-offical business by fifteen minutes. ftfteen minutes? Shri Supakar (Sambalpur): May I Shri Jarjivan Ram: Yes, Sir. suggest that the time be extended? Some hon. Membei-s: Yes, Sir. Several hon. Members: Non-official business. Some hon. Members: Tomorrow. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: All right. If Dr. M. S. Aney: I will speak only this is the desire of the House, I will one sentence, as promised. It is ask the Minister also to bear with it. mainly about the question which was Then we will take it up on Monday. raised by my hon. friend, Shri Tyagi, as well as by other hon. friends. I Shri Tyagi: Sir, before you proceed am certainly one of those who would to non-official businesll, may I enquire support anything that is likely to as to what would happen to this. better the relations betwe'.'n Pakistan Representation of the People (Amend- and India. But we know that these ment) Bill? We are going to vote are matters which cannot be con- day after to orro~ And the zilla sidered off-hand; and, particularly, it parisnads of U.P. have not yet been is very dangerous to consider such a recognised by Parliament. The Elec- matter piecemeal. tion Commission have perhaps given. The idea of this link, something in some ruling, and the matter has been lhe nature of a corridor, so to say, moved in the High Court on a writ. between Pakistan and India, even petition. I wonder what, will! Wlou,h it may be under your control, happen ...... Demands VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) FOf' Excess Grants 1332'" (RaUways) The Deputy MiDister 01 Law (Shri your Library to give me some infor- Bajarnavis) : May I say a word of mation about this Bill. They con- explanation? We have taken the tacted the Election Commission. I view that the members of the zilla am told the Election Commission parishads of U.P. are members of the issued certain directivell to the U.P. district eouncil within the meaning Government, and the U.P. Govern- of article 171 of tl;1e Constitution and ment had asked the Election Commis- tbey are entitled to vote. sion about their advice. They say "those directives are confidential, we Shri Tyagi: How can that be? cannot give you". I am seeking your guidance as to whether you could Mr. e t ~ ea er The hon. direct the Law Minister to supply that Member would appreciate that it is information to us. not a question before us just now. I cannot answer hypothetical questions. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am afraid I When we take that up, the hon. cannot direct the Law Minister to do Member might raise that point at that anything in this matter. If the hOD. moment. Now that business is not Member has to tell me anything, he before us. might seC' me, and if I can help him I will do so. Shri Braj Raj Singh (Firozabad): I have to seek your guidance, Sir, with Shri Tyagl: When will this be taken respect to this Bill. up? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Which Bill? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: On Monday. Shri Braj Raj Singh: The Repre- So we will now proceed to the sentation of t ~ People (Amendment) non-official business. Sardar A. S. Bill. Saigal. Hr. Depu!y-Speaker: I am not here k> give guidance on matters which are not before the House, unless the 14035 hi'll. point comes before me. COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEM- BERS' BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS Shri Braj Raj Singh: That is a qucs- bon of my 1undamental right. SIXTY-THIRD REPORT Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No, no. No Sardar A. S. Saigal (Janjgir): I bee question of fundamental right. Order, to move: order. The hon. Member would realisE' that it is not a matter that is "That this House agrees with before the HOUse just now, and I the Sixty-third Report of the eannot take up any issues that might Committee on Private Members' be taken up subsequently, as to what Bills and Resolutions presented to the result might be, what the reper- the House on the 20th April, 1960". cussions would be ...... Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question. ill: SJui Braj Raj SiD.-h: Sir, I am not talking of ...... "That this House agrees with the Sixty-third Report of the Com- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am not ,oing mittee on Private Members' Bills to give guidance on matters .... and Resolutions presented to th,' , House on the 20th April, 1960." 8hri Braj Raj SiD&'h: Sir, kindly Ilear me for half a minute. J had The motion was ad07Jted ftquested the Research Brane:h ()f Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Establishment of Varioul Defence Councils 14.36 hrs. forces now in tenus of what obtained RESOLUTION RE: ESTABLISH- in U.K. some years ago or in some MENT OF VARIOUS DEFENCE other country some years ago is, I COUNCILS-contel. would submit very respectfully, .• Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House piece of outmoded thinking; it is a will now proceed with the further piece of obsolete thinking. ·discussion of the following Resolution moved by Shri Uma Charan Patnaik When I was a teacher in a college, on the 8th April, 1960:- I used to find that most of the teachers u3l'd to talk about the things at "This House is of opinion that Oxford and Cambridge which had Army, Navy, Air Force and Pro- becomn. outmoded there twenty years duction Councils be established ago. I remember' one writer, one together with an over-all DefE'nce critic, about whom we felt very great Council to co-ordinate and control enthusiasm. But when I happened to their activities." talk about him to a gentleman who Out of an· hour and a half allotted had come from Oxford and I thought for the discussion of the resolution, I was giving him some piece of infor- 39 minutes have already taken up. mation which was· very useful, he said to me "This was a man who wa. Is any hon. Member on his legs? I a vital figure in Oxford tw€'nty years understand there is none. ago, but now he has been put on the shelf there; other people have taken An hon. Member: Mr. Patnaik is the a ~ and his theories have becom. not here. outmoded". Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That doe!! not Similarly, these Defence Councils matter. Shri D. C. Sharma. might have worked very well in U.K. Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): at one time. They might have worked Sir, I appreciate very much the pain:; wonderfully, for aught I know. Lord taken by Shri Patnaik so far as Ismay might have spoken very highly thinking on our Defence matters is about them. But nobody talks 8»out ·concerned. He is one of the few them now. Members of this House who, to a great extent, are thinking on this But even if they were very good subject, a subject of great importance things for U.K., I would submit very to my country and also to other coun- respectfully that my country has got ·tries of the world. But difficulty is to evolve a defence pattern which itt this, that defence, the art and science going to be its own. We may leam ·of defence, is undergoing a transfor- a few things from here and there. mation every minute. So far as But we cannot copy things from other defence matters go, we are not here countries. 'In the first place, other today very well adjusted. So far as countries have many more resourcetl the defence organisa lion goes, things in terms of money. material, thinking .are rapidly changin·g. So far as on strategy and actual experience 01. defence production goes, things are fighting than we have. What is our undergoing revolutionary changes. So experience of fighting? Of course, far as strategy goes, the less I say we have had some experience of about it the better. I must say that fighting in Kashmir, and a very valu- the strategy of the Second World War able experience, but this experience is now a thing of the past. The pro- cannot compare very a o ~a wiUt -duction which was necessitated by the experience of the U.K:. whieb that war is not now needed. To think taught the first and second "'''T'd 4f the reorganisation of the defence wars. 13327 Resolution re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Establishment of 13328 Various Defence Councils So far as defence industries go, I Chiefs are represented. There is alsu know we are doing very well, but the Defence Production Committee. what are our defence industries com- So, 'I submit that so tar as organisa- pared to the defence industries of a tional matters are concerned, they country like the Soviet Union or the are being looked after very properly U.K.? So, India has got to fulfil its by these different committees. destinv in the field of defence all a on~ the line in its own way. It So far as our strategy is concerned, cannot copy things from others. no committee can give guidance on the subject. So far as production In the U.K. they have three Defence goes, we have the Defence Production Ministers, controlling the three ser- Committee which is representative of vices, by whatever special names they the three services. So, I submit that are called, but here in our country the system recommended is not -some- we have only one Defence Minister, thing which is needed in the country. and I think it is very good because it makes for unity of thought, unity It has been said that this is some- of purpose, unity of direction, in thing which the Estimates Committee matters of defellee. Therefore, if they has recommended. I have all respect have three Ministers, we have only for the Estimates Committee, and I one. have no end of respect for the Mem- bers of the Estimates Committee, but, after all, what the Estimates Commit- Shri M. B. Thakore (Patan): And two Deputy Ministers and one Parlia- tee has said is only a suggestion. The Estimates Committee has not given a mentary Secretary. directive. It is a fruitful idea given Shri D. C. Sharma: I have all to us by the Estimates Committee, and rp.spect for the two Deputy Mmisters, after looking at that idea in the con- and 'I have affection for the Parlia- text of our needs and of our defence mentary Secretary. but I am not talk- aspirations, I would say that it is not ing in terms of Dt:!puty Ministers and necessary to ha ve anything of this Parliamentary Secretaries at this kind in our country. time, I am ta in~ in terms of Minis- ters, full-fledged Ministers of Cabinet I therefore say that our defence rank. set-up so far as organisational matters go should remain as it is, and there 'These councils were created there should be a direct link between our so that inter-service rivalries could three Chiefs and the Defence Minis- be minimised, so that there could be ter, and between the Defence Mims- meetings between one group and tel' and the Defence Committee. At another, so that some kind of co- the same time, there should be a ordination could be introduced into direct link between our defence pro- the defence pattern. I do not think duction and our Defence Minister. !I that is our problem at this time. Our think for the time being this is some- problem is not the same as the pro- thing tha.t is working well, and we blem of U.K., U.S.A., or to other should not try to introduce anything countries. It is because in the first new into this. place, we have the Defence Commit- The Minister of Defence (Shrl tee of the Cabinet. At the meetings KrIshna Menon): Mr. Deputy- of that committee, the three Chiefs Speaker, I am sure the House is much of Staft' are also invited sometimes. beholden to the hon. Mover of this I am speaking subject to correction. resolution whose presence we, unfor- Since nobody has contradicted me, I tunately, do not have here today, for think what I have said is correct. tirawing its attention to the question Then there is the Defence Committee of the defence control by Parliament- of the Minister where all these three that is what it really boils dOWll to-,.- 299 (Ai) LS-6. 13329 Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Establishment of 13330 Various Defence Councils [Shri Krishna Menon] but I would like to assure you Mr. the Minister of J;>efence became the Deputy-Speaker and the House that co-ordinating authority and now increas:ngly he is the Minister for the whiie this topit: tu.'m. up a3 more \II less a hardy annual, Government has whole field of defence, production not treated it as though it is a matter many being largely assigned to what of no consequence, more so becau3c it was the Ministry of Supply, which provides an oplportunity to explain within the last twelve months has to the House how the defence organi- changed, and has ir0ne back to the sation works and to what extent defence field for the most part. nomenclatures reflect the content of We are toln that British experience organisa tions. or the experience of other countrics The arguments that have been is not to be thrown away. I yield to Rdduced in favour of this are largely no one in my respect for the experi- British experience, and the merit of ence of other lands over the years or the thing itself has not been l:lefore centuries as the case may be, but it us as a proposition. So far as should not be forgotten that there is British experience goes, the three a whole world and our own experi- arms of the defence services came in ments dr,lwn from. 1't is only in the to being in different chronological U.K. and Australia that t er~ ;j; this order. In British Governments, the system of council governments. Secretaries of State as they were called took precedence over other Apart from that, on merib,. the Ministers. There were originally five reasons given for this change are Secretaries of State, to which after- these. First of all, if there are these wards were added on two others. At councils, the access to the Minister of that time the most important Minister Chif'f3 of Staff would not be an indi- in the defence field was what was vidual approach, but the approach of called the Secretary of State for War, the Chief and P.S.Os. That is one whom we do not have here. Later argument. Though it is not put that I believe came the Board of Admiralty, way, that is the basic argument in or many be before that. It is a Board this matter. The second is that the consisting of the Sea Lords, presided Minister of Defence would not try to over by the. First Sea Lord. Later engage himself in too much detail came the Secretary of State for Air which may either be out of compas- and Air Comd., a few years before sion for the poor Defence Minister, the war, or perhaps immediately or it may be the feeling that he ought before the outbreak of the war. to be more democratised or controlled These gentlemen, the Secretaries or committeed or something of that of State. were full members of character. the Cabinet, and they occupied that ~ n the debate does not seem to place. Though even now they are hl1ve cxC'ited very much of interest caned Secretaries of State, they are today, I shall just deal with the Ministers outside the Cabinet. They essential parts of this problem, and I are junior Ministers in that sense, shall try and tell the House what although I do not want to make any the position in our country is and to observation about another Govern- what extent control is exercised on ment that is functioning, except for a better basis than the proposals the purpose of understanding this envisage. matter. Then emerged the Minister of This matter came up before govern- Defence who y,radually, during the ment soon after Independence, war, became fully responsible. First because before Independence, we had it was Mr. Winston Churchill presid- no difficulties in this matter, as the ing as Prime Minister, and later on Indian Army which was the largest 1333 1 Resolution re: VAISAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) ~t ent of 13333 Various Defence Councils part of our Defence Forces function- is the Defence Committee of the ed largely under the War Office, and Cab:net presided over by the Prime the Commander-in-Chief who was also Minister, in which are the more the Defence Minister was the second important service organisations like member of Government. So, these the Ministry Of Home Affairs, tho! problems did not arise. Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Communications, Minister of Railways, Soon after Ind€pendencp., we took Minister of Industries, and 1 forget counsel; Government took counsel at who else, and the Minister of Defence, that time, of the experienced men. I and all those Ministers who may have do not think there is any harm in a great deal to do with council of saying that Lord ~ a who had a defence problems specially in times very long experiE.nce ot the British of emergency, that is to say, the war system, and I believe, was Chief senior Ministers, .but Ministers of 01 the Imperial General Staff, advised Government, 0... T should not say us. this matter, and the present senior Ministers, of Government, or sy!llin was set up. I should not say senior Ministers, but Ministp.rs of Government whose func- Having said that, I think it is tions are regarded as important for worth the while to institute some the purpose by the Prime Minister. comparison, not phrase by phrase, That is the Defence Committee of the not po:nt by point, with the BrItIsh Cabinet, which, in fact, functions for system as it o ~ain In Britain, there the Cabinet. is the Defence Minister at the top; So, any matter which should be then, there are these counciis so- referred to the Cabinet goes to the called, the Board of Admiralty, the Defence Committee of the Cabinet. It Army Council and the Air Council. is entirely open to the Prime Minister They arc today all under the Defence whether he wants to inform or obtain Minister. The Defence Minister can the approval of the full Cabinet, preside over thp.m, if he wants to; because the former is really the the Chiefs of Staff come to the meet- replica of the latter. That is the ings, and thcre is now a Chief of higher form of control which is exer- the Chiefs of Staff also presides over cised on the whole of defence policy, them normally. On the other side, defence organisation, and defence there is another organisation, which administration, and both the Prime the House has probably heard of al- Minister, and the Defence Minister ready, namely what is called the and other Members are all part of Board. It is that Board whose func- one Government and they are res- tions are in reality more important. ponsible to this House and to Parlia- That board is more or less identical ment. with the Defence Minister's committE'es here. It is that board which really Secondly, from that level you come operates the whole system of defence to the next one, which has been given organisation and maintains con'act the name-I did not give it, but it with the Minister who is responsible was started as-such the Defence to Parliament. Minister's committee. Now, there is the Defence Minister's Committee Over here, when Lord :Ismay made (General), which is presided over by these proposals, at our request we the Defence Minister, and at whicll dccepted them. It has worked well are present the Deputy Ministers, the for all the!le years, to our great satis- Defence Secretary, the Chief of Staff hction. And it is not static; it moves and the Chief of Production, and I)n according to the necessities of l'It)wadays, the Chief of the Defenr... functions. Science Organisation, and the Finan- cial Adviser. In our system, the At prec;ent, what happens here is presence of the Financial Adviser is this. Taking it from the top, there very important because nothing can 13333 Resolution rei JUPEWDL 22, 1960 Establishment of 13334 Various Defence Councils [Shri Krishna Menon] be done unless there is financial con- could not be any agreement on all currence at every stage. That.. is a matters. These are not committees large Defence Committee. But, in where votes are taken any more than practice, this Defence Minister's in the Cabinet. Anyway, these com- committee is attended by any mem- mittees process matters. They help ber of the Services or of the Defence in the execution as the functional Ministry, who is required for func- bodies. tional purposes. Usually, they are 'fhe point has been made that there large meetings, because the other is no statutory existence. If you people, maybe the adjutant-general mean that there is no statutory exlst- or maybe the quarter-master-general ence m the sense that it is not pro- Or maybe the Chief of General Staff vided in any of the legislation passed, on the Army side or maybe, the there may be some degree of truth Engineer-in-chief, whoever is requir· in it. But if the Council of Ministers ed is present, and usually, there art' has a statutory existence, and .. ~e a certain number of officers t>resent charge that is ~i en to them has at this. That is the general commit- statutorY meanings, then the arrangE:-.e tee. ments set up under that also have In addition to that are three com- statutory meaning. mittees, representing the Army, t ~ Air Force and the Navy. In these So, these committees really take t ~ committees, only the Service Chiefs place of the Board in England. The representing these Services attend; all British system as such does not obtaiu the others are just the same. even in the other Dominions or othtU Commonwealth countries, much ie86 Shri D. C. Sharma was referring In other places. The American to the Defence Mini:;ter's Production system is very much like ours it. Committee, which assumes more and some respects, though I do not wam more importance as the days hbVt: to go into greater details about it. gone by, where all the Service Chiefs are present as users, the producers We have developed this to a are present, the manufacturers, that considerable extent ourselves. I is, the Controller-General of Defence would like to add at this stage ,'that Production, the Secretary who looks the trend of development in the after Defence Production, and so on. United Kingdom has been more in This committee has functioned the way we have been working rathel' extremely well. than in the way they have been work- Then, there is also the Dfalence ing in the past, that is to say, modern Minister's committee for Research and developments are more in this direc- Development, in which the principal tion, especially with the expansion of officers concerned is the Chairman of the services and the intensity of the the Defence Science Organisation. factors that are brought to bear upon These bodies are not advisory nor them. haV'e they extreme authority because, Therefore, there is nothing in these after all, the responsibility of Gov- suggestions, which has been made, ernment is in the Minister, that is to which we }(ave not considered. We say, the Minister is responsible to have considered these things time Parliament; he could not come here after time, and they have not been and say that the Defence Minister's found useful, whether they camt: committee voted this way or that from the Estimates Committee or from way; he may persuade them, or they anywhere else. may persuade him. Any1lVay, I do not know what my predecessor Shri Tyagi There is no desire on the part of hali found, but I have found no Government to say that what has occasion when somehow or other there been must be. 7n fact, changea have 13335 ResoLution re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Resolution re: 13336 EstabLish11lent Withdrawal of variouS Of Kashmir Defence Case from Council.s U.N.O. taken place in the last ten yean; been satisfactory. It enables develop- changes have taken place during the ment; it is flexible in its way, and ciS last two years, during the last three 1 said, in essence, it is what obtains years or one year or whatever it may III U.K. also. be, according to the necessities. Government wish to oppose this resolutlon. The main point is the responsibility of Government to Parliament. So 15 hrs. long as Government is responsible to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There was an Parliament, these functional orgaDl- amendment to this Resolution moved- sations cann.t be criticised, sugges- by Shri Shree Narayan Das. He is tions can be made about them in me also absent. So, I shall have to put llght of experience which might come the amendment first and then the to the knowledge of Members or any Resolution. (Interruptions). lapses or any prospects of better Because the amendment has been functioning that Members may see moved I have to put it to the House. by their own knowledge or their own That cannot be withdrawn when the experience. Member is absent. I yield to none in my regard for I will put the amendment. The Shri U. C. Patnaik for the persistence question is: with which he has put forward this For the original Resolution, sub- idea and also for the occasion that stitute- he has given to Parliament to discuss these matters which are somewhat "This House is of opinion that a Committee be appointed to con- different from the other matters we hre nowadays discussing in connection sider the necessity, desirability with Defence. and feasibility of establishing Army, Navy, Air Force and Pro- So, I am glad to have this opportu- duction Councils together with an nity of talking about this. r want to overall Defence Council to co- assure the House that the Defence ordinate their activities." Organisation and its functional bodies The motion was negatived. are satisfactory in character. They provide for team spirit. They do not Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now the question is: take away from the responsibility of the Service Chief and Chief officers. ''This House is ot opinion that Army, Navy, Air Force and Pro- The idea that the access to the duction Councils be established Defence Minister should be not only together with an overall Defence of the Chiefs of Staff but that of Council to co-ordinate and control the PSO's can only be a matter of their activities." Hormal adjustment depending on how The motion was negatived. things work out, because, after all, the Chiefs are Chiefs of the Services, and in the kind of hier-archial struc- RESOLUTION BE: WITHDRAWAL ture, discipline has to be maintained. OF KASHMIR CASE FROM U.N.O. But I have found no difficulty in their \ access to me or my access to them. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now, we take In a democratic Government, especial_ up the neXJt Resolution. Shri Tariq. ly in a parliamentary system of gov- Shri A. M. Tariq (Jammu and Kash- ernment, it is largely a matter of how mir): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, I beg to things work out. And the working move: out, in my experience and in the "This House is of opinion that experience of my predecessors, has on account of the failUre of the 13337 Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Withdrawal of 13338' Kashmir Case from U.N.O. [Shri A. M. Tariq] United Nations Organisation to call upon Pakistan to vacate ag- ~~ R~i ~~~ gression in Kashmir, the Govern- ~ ij' ~ ifITlf \ill CI'ifICfI1f ~ 'fiT ment should withdraw its com- ~ ~ ~ ~ f.t; ~ if, if WfiCI1lf plaint from the United Nations foo Organisation as a measure 01 pro- ~ if, ~ ~ ifi11PJ ~ test." ifT1J m m f.t;1rr \iITlT I • 'IT 'Q'o '1 0 r i ~ ~ fgccft ~ ~ W it~ 'fiT ~ ~ ~ ~ \ill ~~ ~ it Iii '11 GI q I{'II CI"N m ififln' ifl' t"IT'1' ~ ~i ~~~~ tt W ij' qrf'filJi ~ f.t; ~ ~ ~~ ~ i ~ iRi,oIT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ r ir~ 1'1 'fiT ~ 'iT I ~ ~ ~ 1 ~ ~ if ~ ~ ~i i ~ ~ ~~ arnr iflT ~ ~ fit; ~ ~ it~ ~~ ~ 1 ~ '1 r lfij,a:ft1: m'Um m ~ I ~ 'fiT lffi{1T fr ~ ~ t ~ W iIld' iIi1 ~ fifl ~ 'fiT lffi{1T ~ ~ I 4l llm1T ~ r~ ~ ;r(t iff{Wifl ~ iir ~ ~ ~~ '1'1"< ~g ~ ~ ~ '1>1 ~ ,; ~ if "" CI'ifICfI1f ~~ 6lI' ifi"(Of\' ~ I ~ {t ~ ~~ it ;Q qr qt aFfidT ~ ormtt ~ ~ ~ iffiT ~ ~r ~ [3339 Resolution re: VAISAKHA 2. 1882 (SAKA) Withdrawal of 13340 Kashmir Case from U.N.D. ~ ~ ~ i ~ if;T ~ amr ~ m;ff iflilA; ~ ~ craRf ~ If>'T Ri ~ if; 1!ffi100 ifIl ~ ~ ,Ilfrf;:;rqj ti, ~ cr-Rr i!ft ~ it ~ it ffi [p;ft 9;f 0 1! 0 t~ ~ ~ 'Ifr< ~ ~ ~ ~ 'Ifr< ri f·ft f.ti W' ~ t ~ ~ ir tt~ I ~ mer ~ ~ f.r. ~ ~ti ~ ~ ~ r tR m ~r i ~ n ~ ifiT ~ 9;fTiif ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ij'if ~ t ~ ~ ~~ ~~ii ~ m'" t ~~ ~ii ~ I ~~ FT ~ ~ 6!1 {'I 1"1 1C\ (iiil ~ ~ f.:rct;rfu1:!: ~ t ~~~~~ ~ 'Ifr< ~ it; ~ ~ iiil ~ i ~ ~ mcr ~ ~ it ~ iifTij"f ~ ~ it ~ ~ t ~ it; ~ i m ~ ~ al ~ lfiiff I ~ I ~ ~ ~ i i ~ q.fij" ~ p;ft trnr~ ~ it iN 151') '1;1"0 ,!o i ~ li ~ ~ f.J; ~ CfllTI1 Ril if, I ~ I C1 if; orR 11 ~ ~ ~ f ~~ ~ t ~.. r'':;' d d .:! ~ '-I. I. ..; &.5 i. ~ .:! ~ ~ - lII, ~ yl_ ~~ i. u,a.. 1.. 4,iol ", ,,' ..i r~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ -.)o)A ~ J.,s ~ '-I. J,y. ~ i. ulJl, ~~ II, t~ ~ ~.. ~i ,.t- ...stS ~ ~ i. J.,s ~ ~ d .:! li}t ty '-t! ~t i. U""";' L.1'"I ~ .:! ~ ~ }'6 • .t.S d r~ ,-",I 1.. ~ ,.'';1 Jj u4T ~ ~ d 4!' .J,l,.,L, ~ ~ .Ji..!,..s., L...U ..,;.,s ~~ ,-",,'.:! JW ~ ~~ t 1. ,-,",I ~~ .:! " ~ ~ r',J' I,)+'" u,At ~~ d.:! ~ ...s"""":'s ~ til ..;',.:pJ II ; ~ J.le:FJ.. ,s ~ 1:1' ~ ~ .. ~ .,.....-,.. X ,,» ~ ,s ~~ ~ - ~ ~t i~ ~~ - ~~ II ~ Is' ~~ J. ~ - ~ ~ .:! ~ 0..5"'" j> i~ ~ rJJR- J.. LJ""l.!,.u1s' J.Lt..; ~ rA uII ~ o o d .:! ~ 1&14 ..,..' '-! - ~~ ~ ..; ~ ~ ,J'" ,s u,s,J 1.. ~o &.C.Lt ~ uolL,i uS ~ d .:! ~ i ~ ~ ~ ,.',il ,,1 I,)+'" ~ ,,' A ~ Lh't...t...... ~ t ~ 1I,),1,,'l..; 1. u,:''UJ ..,y. ..sY- ~ ~ ~ .:.-J, ,-",' ~ ,.."..:.5 UtA ~~ ,s rA X 1:11 ~ I,)+'" ~ 1. r1- ,... '-'.II II, utS ~ ~ Iy. ~ ~ - ~ r ~ ~ ~ r ,-",' ~ ~ ..,tS ~ ~ IS ~ II, .:!" r~ ,.,,,, I.i)'t ~ uS t:>u-,o),ll. IS .:! 13351 Resolution re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Withdrawal of 13352 Kashmir Case from U.N.O. v-lll-/ l./J.i/ Ji oJ. ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ l"s ~ ~ ~ ..; Lx'; £S i.. ~ oJ. ~ ~~ ~ 1.. t ~ ~ ....,,....,&),,1 u - ~ ~ ",.fI.II ~ u'-tt c;, ~ ;S,J ~ ~ ~ IJ'" ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ "w!.! .,;'-" I i.. I,)'6A ,,1.:./ 1.. cJ' - ..i c)'S ~ ~ ,...... :J £S ~~ '-AS ,I:JJ,J ~ ,,.-to' JlI ~ - .! ~ .:q.I, ~ ,.a-t.S "I .! ...; U"I loS J,J U'" u,.., - A ~ ill..- ~ u,.eA';'" £.Ii- Is' ~ ~ ~ ~ t 1.. 1J""s!,ti" ~ '. ...,...L,.- .! ill_.... los! - ~ u-lttj ~ ~ i.. ~ ,W JlI ~ ~ ~ .A!,.J" J"'" ", ...s.)lodlJI ~ I.,! - ~ ~ oJ.,s ~t ~ iii!!' u.)/}i - r,., t ~ ~ ~ fl"';..) ~ ~ ~~ ~ ,.u... t ~ i.. c....4J ,J- u';w...... - oJ. ~ o ~ - J ~~ I.:-y! oJ. u,-to" -.Ji ~ ~ u"-'.) ~ - uS ~t oJ. i.. ~ . loS ...; ~ U"/ IJS - ~ ~ "I &....4J ,..t-,. ~ l:!' I,)'ltA ~ ,-,",I ,s u,;w...... ,tl C;i ~ "w! 1. ~ ,.r- ~ ls!' ~ ~ ~ ~ .u,.; tl....rJ , J.) , ~ ~ 1.. ~ t '4 ~ ~ ~ .t.GlIb ,,' I.,! IS 1,)'6. l,.s l.l+t '),.) I,)'6A &.S .! ~ ...sS ~ U" / Cs!,I.; ~ -.! ~~ uS u,J.L4i ~ ~ - C;,.;,s ~ t ul-f+ I:Jt1... ~ IS ~ ~ l1tS los! I,)'6A ~ ~ JS ~ ~~ ,,' - A til, JW ~ ts' ~ ,,1 r ~ ,.$..fJ ,-""I., ,,"Jot !..Utj U'" - u" .fi-l-. ,,' uf'l...,...4,..- ~ J-S ~ fU 1.. ,-:-1I.l.... J,., i IJ,II ~ 1:Ju-,1lh ~ IlN. 1. U"I - ~ ~~ J"IItj U,.S ~ " oJ. ~ ,.$ i.. V'" ~ t .; A ~ ,-""I C:!,I.; 1I!, ~ ~ i ts' ~ ~ ~ IS l..\S ~ ~ ~ ~ i.. ~ IS .! ~ ~ ..} - /:ls!,s J 1.. ,.w.; JtP.- ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ oJ. - J LJs!,s t~ q.I,4...0 q./, ~ 1.. t.=" ~ ~~ ,,'. c,., J.L::. IS A ,-,",,-i/ ~ d:p.A ~ ~ ,-",I ,,' ut3 ~ ~ ~~ IJ"'" ~ oJ. 1)"'" .,-;t ... /,l..a .J. ~ ...sS ~ - d l• ~ ~ u)l..A - LJ'ltAI C!' ~ 1.. cJl.x-,oloh ~ ~ 1JJl.cb..... "t..., ~t U'" " ~ ;J ul." ~ r Wlt'" u .... .); L Yo oJ. ,Is',... ~ .:.oJ, ,-",/ - ~ I.:.J, ., los! ~ .,;! ... ts' utt!,.."...u -dl.... ~ ~~ ~ utl ~ .; ~ ~ "'r-4 lt3 " t ~ ,,1 - I,. ~ ~ 13353 Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1980 Withdrawal of 13354 < Kashmir Case from U.N.D. Y"' .. r ~ -r-(J"J.] ti c,,' ~ l,J ~o ~ ..,s Il.I) J)t..A t!; ~ ~ ~t - ~ J.. ~ 1. 41, ~ -..;,. u.l.lt',I) ....t.l.t ~ ~ .. I ~ 4,iol rib d .!J ..,.,..1 ~ ,! ~ loS ~ ~ 1. LJ"I .. ;l,; ~ ..I ..,..Ib 4·') rib - ..,.".. ~ )'6...:.s - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ d',s ..; 4-iol f'b - ~ o ~ u,s ~ ~ - ~ U,I) ~ X llttJ ~ti x .ltt j.! 1. ,I,t:; ~ t ... ; "I - ~ t .l,s ~ ";;4J - ~ u,.» LJ'" ..; '.).A:;:... r',;1 ..l ~ - .... ~ ~ ~ r~ ~ ~ u,$,., r ~ x ~ ~t ;tt... ", Ul... ,s =lot 4S' ~ ~ J:,s ~ ~ LJ"I ~ ..!. r. o ~ ot 1. LJ'" - 4S' ~i i., - cJW- l,! ~ ,.lJ.JI J,u... d ~ - ~ I.).A.... r',;r ..; ~ ~ t ~ 4$ ~ I.j ~ ~ ~ J'l'-! - utj ,.""xm... Jdlt ..::.-tS-! I, ~ L."... ~ ~ - 111, ~ - ~ ut:i ., ", - ~ ~ J&WI ,olt_ ~ cJ;.!,il - 1. u';* cJ' ~ - ,.,\,'-t!l.J ,! 1.,\,:sIX... t',;' -".b. loS J, I,lot ~i w:;.;,.t 1..503 "I - ~ ...:.S ~~ 1. cJ'· ~ ~ ~ ~~ r· ~ 1. Ll.!ol ~ ~ ~ cJl ~ .••i '-'L. ~ r ~ - j6" ~ ...:.-.J, ....,..1 ul6J, &oS .! ,s "i ~ ,-",I -.! I" ~ #!!!! - t~ l,!tAl;) ~~ ~ u"JJ. .. ,s ~ 1. )o6 • .t.S ,,' ~ ,s - t.S 4S ,l.._ ..st! rS u' ~ ~ ~ - ~ ",6"" ~ fo ,.AJ I.f ~ ~ X uti}ol4 ~ U'T,", - ", ~ ~ 1. ~~ uS ,.....:.s ~ 1. u,:;,,-,= cJl....l-... - ~ ~ ~ \..1"1 ,s ~ I.,}"'I J''-- - ~ =',ti; ~ cJI ~ ~ ~~ ..t,.tl;i u""1,- ~ u"J. r,-::a.,.... ~ - A ~~ o ~ ~ 1..5''; 0 ~ ~ - It:i ~ a~ r ~ r o ~~ ..:..-I, ....,..1 ~ ~ 41, J.. utt;1 ,s 1. Jw.:.1 ...rS ,.w - 1. =,1,.:. d.) ~ 41, ~ ..l uW' ~ ~ '-4 1. ~ ~ ~ ,,' ~ oo ~ ..J1-.. uJ ~ iJ)..... LL,l1... " .J.A ,,1 - ~ ~ ~ ~ J.. ,.4t ~ ,.MlW ~ -, ltS ~ o ~ ~ .! t!,.a ~ ~ I..frl ~ ..; ~tt ~~ _..:,...j, ,-",,' ~ - A 1.::0 l+l"Q" ~ ~ r',.i' ~ #!!!! ~ - ", - ~r W4-- ..,r-olJ ... }l ~ ~ 1. ,o)J;W ..ItI,.,-' "I ~ ~ JlI ~ ~ ,%- r~ )o.!;, 4-'l... "I ~ ~ ~ ti,.....tJ J.. £j t3tAl ti ~ dlx.. ,tWI - ,,..; u,;,,) I:l' uti"" ~ r'''' -..J ~ !t"" f' If'jJ .. ~ • "" ~ ~ '" ~ r - r+r-' If -+1 "?XI - ~ ri #" ~ ~ ~ ... ~ /!P'.r r rr - " ..-ri:P I ....c" 1'1) , .-'(Irrs-' ~ ~ ...'" t"':-''' .,., ~ r~ fF ~ ," '(-::'I -t,....-...t<' ,£'IJ ~ n 1:1 "r ~ ~ '" ~r r" l' 5'1 ~ I" S"" ~ $'1 ~ - If ~ ~ n ri~ f' ," i ~ rt ~ ,(.I r ... ..yo .,., ~~ ~ S" ~ , " 1(.1 1 G'1t'1 ij'a ,,, s"'? ",;,..,- err t~ ~ ~ ~ £¥ - ip'7 ...i.(? r."-' r..'1 nJ " 1 ~ ~ - 'a rrf<{ f ~ r ¥iC' r rtf" '" ~~ ~ £' ~ (';a,tt<' " -? f' ~rr ~ r ~~ ~~~ .. ~ - ~ sin'" ~ ~ ~ _"7 f' ;r9-C r ~ f " ~ ~ r~ ~ t~ ((r ji" rCr r." ,,.('l .Sl 'r--' Ir' ", ~ n s.c (,ill IIifIcr ~ f7 I"" 'f'-" If'I' .... ~ :.c:"' 1:P"1' cr'I'S'" (f'!.) ~ - ~~ ,(,iii fl'i - ~ ... .,., ~ ..,-'(1 ~ _ ~ ~ rr ~r £' ," '1= .Iii .,-.:::..,...:.., S' ~ a ..... {i'j"1 ty"'- .,..-.. '!,-., ~r r~ "",,,,., ~ ~ fir WI' - ,"" ... t4';;p ... ~~ 1'1 f''''' ~ "r i crj !'1 - ,"" I'" .... '1.'"" '£ ~ ~ r ~ my rS'"' ~ - J - n ~ - ~ HI'i' a~ ,(.I r £,.q ~ tn ~ ~ r S" r'rr - 0 I .Y...... fir r7 r'id:r- ~ I" ~t ~i ~ rtf"' f"<'"'- F - !' ~ .,.-., ~ "f,!J ~ - ~ ~ i ,.' CCIf'j ~ S" 'Ji IS' ~r f ~ ~~ ... .J.,,,.., - 0 I ~ fil''"'' r - ..-.i:P ill' ..(0'1 ~ '"Pera f 0.'" .. ~ ~ ""CCP "''W): fit'" ~ s.c ~ - ~ ~rir rr """('-=' - ,iI)" ...,...... , ,;""S ~ - J "1'1 ~ - ...~ 0 I ..,...... , ~ ffl"l cr4(1- lrt .,-., r ~ ri~ - err 'stS"" ~ - ~ r..f! fn ~ i a ~ - leAl r il"'-' "I'1£Y:'(1 ? 1IT("-:II(.1 f ... ~r s" ~ ~a ~ .(S"" r ~ 'f'-" r ~ ",n_ r,J ~ i~r "1''' ~ ,"" fI-" .Sl- ~ ~ -..t<' In C)'I SIll ~ -; _ J - i ~ - ... t~ i7 s' leAl '! -i·r t ~ - ~ , ... ~ l'r '9" ~ 1(.1 c-.J - ..... = ~ ~ ",.(I " !n sr' .,{f"S'"' _ ~ ~ l!"·!lJ (rn !'1 - ~r leAl ~ s' Isr "':;-r=' ~ ~ '9n "1'1£.,,(1 ~ ~ ~r CIf("-.,(.I s· '0' N" II 1l.£04 aiD:) ~ ~ Jo ~ ,-",I ~ - J)U& - f - ~ ...,.,J. ~ f',JI - ~~ .J...:.. X ~ ~ IS u,a LJ,s ~ ~ I:.''-l ~~ t ,)L.._ IS 1.. ,-",' ~ J. ~ ...,i,s ~ ti ~ ~ ~ L&),.,. ,.,,JI,s I:)I,.s .:! ~ ~ ~ ,S ,-",I - ~ ~ ,:; ~ i ~ 1,)'6"; ~ ,,' ~ WJ ~ - lIt- ~ ~ IJ"-ti ~ ~ ~ l.l"'.aS : r 1,)'6" ...:.-I..!, u )l.A - l.aS I:.'t.,..} yi ...... i.. l.l"'1 &)*,4 t ~ ~ ~ 1.. ~~ ~ J,-t> - ~ ~ ~ ~ ,,11&&1 )'.1;, ~ ~ ,-",' 1.. ~ u,Jl- ~~ ~ ~ ..sf'l JW... 1.. t:JI - ~ J--U ~ Jb l(' ~ f ,;' 1. ~ - t..S ~ ~ .l. ~ .. ,,',11 ' r- ,S r- .loA.! i.. ~ ,s ...,..1 - .!! ~ ,,1.. 3 \:I' 4$ ~ ~ ~ fib .J.. wl...:ail,s r- d LJ't-ti ~~ r',;1 - ~ ':;/A ~ !Io).3:lM ,,1,11 1,)'6" r',;' ~ .l.!1I&) .)!...x.I ~ ,.a - r .! ~ ~ ~ t:JI ~ ~ ,.....:.s IS ~ w,.J" J r.b;7.x .. 1..,L,s i ~ ~ r',;f ~ ~~ ~ X ~ 11&)*,.. ,.i u-' i..J+'l ~ ~ (:i ,,1 ~ ~ ~ ,f "r'f ~ ~ t -.}tA I,)'6ti u,s,J 1.. t ~ r".' ...,s d .., J. t:J'''+- i.. t:JlttI' u-I "I AA,!,.) ~ r',i/ - ~ ~ P.A -Is' t~ ..} u,s,J 1. t:Jt.x...,.w ""i!).) lII, ~ - .! lib, ~ ~ ~ ~ .r.S u,a ~ LiJ&) ~ u-I ,...... 1.. ~ f',;1 - LJ'ft"; ufl! ., - ~~ ~ tt~ f.!;) w.. .i l:JI - ..~ J. utt",; ..J ut-'.Lo £1...:.. J.!' X i.J&)f;i ..} t:Ju_,o).la ~ ~ ~ 1. t:JI "I ~ "/0)..1 r- ~~ L,'-l i.. ~ lltA.. - ~ cJ'"1 .! lib) tAl ,=I- ~ .. ..:....J:U ,,1 -,J. ~ i.. t ~ - ~ u,s,., - LJl!o) q."; "r'i ~ ~ ...J LJ'06- i ~ ,+- ~ t:JU'-s'lt ,,1 t,.;u., ,:51 \.of;/" ,::,. ~ ~ t ~ cJ'"' - lAS t ~ ,L ~ ~ ..,,,! ~ ule, - ~ A) ,f u,s,J t:J' J. \:Itx-Slt ~ ~ u., 1:J,s., - ~ u.) ~ ~ i ~ ~ ~ u,..,t< ,s u,.l6- U! ,...... 1.. ~ r',J/ -.:! lib, lAS l.aS,L ~ .. ,,1';1 ~ - I..!&) ~ ~ t ~ - ~ .!, t ~ - X ~ 1..f,l.A ~i ,3/ ~ ~ LJlIb, - ~ ~ ~ r',JI - ~ uti,&) L:Jlx-Slt"I - A lib, u., l:J,s., ~ ~ d- ~ ~ - ~ ~i J. ~ - L.J"6A ~ l.4 ,...... i 1I.,)3:l..l.e fl,JI " 0' ,,' I' 0 A d.. I,)'6A Jl- ,.) ,L ~ oli,t u,.sll ~ i ~ 11.(,t.. ..."t...a '+i,.. ,... ~ t~ ~ i.. ~ "I,S/ - ~~ J.f "su... 299 i ~ APRIL Do 1_ Withdrawal at 13362 KCJBhmir CCJBe !Tom U.N.O. ~ - r - E "",.:.] &tiu.,., ~~ ,...... ~~ I..f,w:.r, c,. U- ~ uwJ' I, .! I.tJ ~ r} o ~ A wtW r- 1.. ,-",' - - .! 4.S ~ ',l.-tI ~ r'''' IS A \.,; lq. !,rJ., "He seemed ready to discuss ut-.i' ~ £.)t.A ,,' r ~ ,,s any proposal provided it ~a e ~ ~ t ~ - r .. ,s Pakistan control of the Chenab waters in Kashmir and did not ~ L ~ ~ -=--,t. ,,' ~ leave the Moslem inhabitants of the valley solely under Indian r''''' ~ ~ 4!' ~ lU,s I..f":' rule." ~ uS....,....s ,-",' ~ ~ t-., ~ ~~ u'-tt! ~ ,,' A ~ IS utA a~ U,s J,. ~ ~t ~ L)'" u,JaAJ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ '" fU i...... ;... ~ L.,L, ,-",' IS ~ ~ - u'- ~ 1.. '-'"', ~ ~ t.S' ~ ~ ~ ~~ - U,II ~ ~ - J', ~ ..s,l.A ltS ~ ~ rt3 w.. -.:! .W ...t~ &.l - A ,m..; X u-' ~ ~ IS C"- ,-",' It ~ 4!' ~ ~ ~ - A ~ L:f'4,j ~ .X ~ lor' ~ fll ~ X I:IL, U-' ~ -utA ~ ~ ~ )tt - ..,.,.. ~ ~ ~ ,s I) ~ ~ ~ - A ~ .::.JJS ),' ~~ -L)'6A i:J I.!,', -L,)IIA - .!! ~.. Io)lt; 6!! ~ ~ •.;... ~ ..j ~ .. t~ ~ I.,..)+'" £.)L, i. '-""'" - A j U X 1:.'4 ..,.., ..cp.oe ~ 1.. U'" - u'- a~ i~ ulA ,WJ'olo+JI ~ ,,' uti' ~ U'" ~ LoJJH t!" ~.. ~ L)+'" ~t l ~ -~ ~ ...,+! r ~ IS u'- ~ L.i I:.'L, IJ X vIA ,WJ'olo+J: ~ l.Uq. ~ -r ~ ~ ~ ~ - ',- L)'" cJt.W4 W,., II!! U-' ''- "....:) - ~ ~ ~ ,....r.s ~ £.,...- ~ U,.. ~ ...;,... J yi ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ - A ~ """,.. ~ i.. ~ J;t.u ,:...... ~~ ~ IS utA t.x.) JJ ~ ~ ".. u'- t ~ UJ., U,.» J J&W, ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ cll !,f... ~ ~ uW' is ,,' ~ ..} ~ ~ ~ ~~ - ~ #oJ r} Ji)o£' J't • t ~ ~ ..} ~ a ~ f:}..... Ytl' J'o,,-.u.; L:lUI.. ~ ~ -A u+ti ~ 1.. .:lUI.. V' -~ t ~ ~ "...l.t '-"" ~ 1. ~ u.." ~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ t ~ ~ IS u,- ~ U,s 13369 ~ ••o~ re: VAISAKHA 2, 1812 (SAICA) With4rawal of 13164 KaBhmir case from. U.N.O. ~ ~ ...... IS u,a JJ ,-",I ~ d ..! r.....4t' 'l - A ~ J r ~ - ~ ...s$ U:;U ~ '-=- i 6 h. u.rl ~ ~ tt! ~ til!! ...,1J.,. '-=- It'" ~ ~ "I ~.. ~ u.t,s ,.z.- til!! C" ~ IS .t! 1. ~ a .) yi oil .i. ~ - ~ r',JI ,4 ~ .);;.- 1. ,...AS .i. u41. d .t! L"S' LJ6,.J,JJ..,.I ~ ~ r',;; ~ ,-",I ltS, .) ... ~ .JJ ,-",I ~ ~ ~ ~ 1. ,....,.s is ~ Uii... 'l .) ~ .i X rj,J,4... ..,4-lt ...sS ~ ,s .) ~ tt! J6t' J't" d ;;-.. t,.,1.t- u,» uS ...s'i'; ~ - .t! ~ i.. ~ ,,1 ,J,3 J.tap- I, ~ }'t ~ ..J ~ u,.. - .!! " ,....t.S - tt! ...,,...,.., ~ vS ,J,.. ~ - ~ i~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ d1-.. ~ u'-i' .u...... ~ r1" ~ ...sS ..;,; ~ ~ -,;! ~ ~ >+! .) 1:1' X JJ-. 1. ~ ~~ ft....xJI "I ~ ~ ti 1. ,.lJJ'W "l.... "',l-,'-! 1. ,-",I ."b. • ~ 1. 1:1t.x-S4 ~ w,J- ~ a ~ ~ - ~ c,.. .tr =to J"=t- loS .!! r,.t- ~ - UtA UJ', ~ \ ~ ltS ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ )+ rU , ~ ,.. ~ ~ '-y. ,}! ~ LJ'" ,,»4 1. ,-",I 1. c.lt.x-S4 ~ tt! ~ ..:s-. ..~ ...,.,' ~ t=t- -.Jj JW ~ ~ ,4. ,.l.1.- ~ JIl.! ~ J. ~ ~ ~~ -.J:J "" ~ ~ ...,.rJ ... ., ., X',UI i. ~ ~ J4',' ..:-,.. j.iJ" d 6..l ~ c.I'tM " u.., ~ ~~ J c.llT-,.w. "I ~ ...sA, ~ u..:.,s ,L- - ~t ~ .i.%.ta ~~ ~ ,,1 .t! r'J ~ rii ~ " ell -..,,,, ~ 4'" Ut'1.t 'r- &:J ~ IS .t! J:J ,-",I u,.. Jot'" J. uw1 loS ~ ~ WI u,.. ,,...u - .t! ~ til.. 1. ~ 1. c.lU-,tlJA ~ ,,' ~ l.i.J1- i ,...... u 'l ~ ...,.., 1. 1:I1,rt.c::. rW c.I' ~ t ~ ...,s Jlx.."w ~ ~ '-"" ~ ~ 1. ~ r',JI ~ ,-",I LJ+- ~ r'''' d ...". lxw- .t! w:. '+ L"S' Ja. .) £U- u"-il " ~ J IS d ~ ,aUt ~ Ut-il r" IS ~ ~ tt! ~ ~~ " r'''' -U,J 1. ~ r'''' £4»,.,w. 4l..ti r Ut'1.t 1:11 ~ 1. ~ IJ+"A ~ u,.a.. ~ " - L)6II ~~ ,-",' ~ J!..- ,-",' ",t...a I, ,,1 ~ ~ - tt! ~ ~ ~ ut...;I ,. IS ~ ~ ~ .J.t:r1- c"» ,-",I ,,1 ~ ~~ ...,s c.lu...,olJ.a ~ ~ ~ ~ u,.» uS ~ to IS ~ ~ ,"""''W r'''' - wl..il \,If)' ~ r ~ " ...... ~ )+4 " ~ v-' ~ ~~ ~ .: Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1960 Withdrawal of 13366 Kashmir case from U.N.O. [J,''» - " - ~ ~ "This House is of opinion that ~ ~ ~ ~ more active persuasion should be ,,',I' '"', IS made in the United Nations Orga- nisation to call upon Pakistan to ~ ~ IL- ",6ot" iltJ UI..aJ, ,s rA vacate aggression in Kashmir." U'" U"'i t!-)l.A )ott tJ This is also quite different. 'It is just the reverse of what is wanted in the ~ ~ £1-) ),' resolution. We may achieve the object of the hon. Member's amend- ~ r',;' .,s ~ ment by a negative resolution or a ~ negative vote. So, that also is not - in order. Shri Vajpayee can move hi'S amendments. He seeks only lI. U'" "'.-. t3t.... 1.. JbW, ~~ 1.:1' verbal change. [- L."II t ~ ~~ ...s( ~ t o Shri Vajpayee (Balrampur): I beg to move: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov- ed: In the resolution, "This House is of opinion that For the words "should withdraw on account of the failure 01 the its complaint from the United United Nations Organh;ation to Nations Organisation as a measure call upon Pakistan to vacate of protest" substitute aggression in Kashmir, the Gov- ernment should withdraw its com- "should have its complaint in plaint from the United Nations the U.N.O. dropped as a measure Organisation as a measure ot pro- of protest." (3). test." 4. I beg, to move: There are certain BDl'endments of In the resolution, add at the end- which notice has been given. 'l.'he first one is by Shri Hem Barua, but "and independently of the it is beyond the scope of the resolu- U.N.O. explore avenues to secure tion. It reads: vacation of aggression." (4) "This House is of opinion that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The resolut.ion with a view to achieving an and amendment Nos. 3 and 4 of Shri amicable solution of the long- Vajpayee are before the House. 'Standing Kashmir dispute, a Con- ference, ill the (:ontext of improv- Now, we will have to decide the ed Indo-Pakistan relations at time-limit.. present, of the Prime Minister of Shrl Jaganatha Rao (Koraput): India and the President of Pakis- ~ i e minutes each. tan be forthwith convened." Shrl Raghunath Singh: Ten minutes That is quite a different affair. He each. would agree with me that this has nothing to do with the resolution that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Five Minutes we have got. ordinarily, and in EilCCclltil>ual c.ases. llnother, two minutes. may be tal.ten. The second is trom 8hrl Aurobindo Ghosal. It reads thus: Shrl BraJ Raj Singh: May I know 13367 Resoluti01l. re: VAISAKHA 2.1882 (SAKA) Withdrawal 01 13368 Kashmir case from U.N.O. how many Ministers are loml tit ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ intervene? t fcti it \iTif fT1IT at m ~ ~ if; ~ ~ ~rr Mr. DeputY-Speaker: Only one ~ om ~~ in ~ en: ~ Minister. fT1IT '1R ~ t was setting involved in power poli- paign was launched against the Maha- tics. raja, the 'Quit-Kashmir-campaign' organised by the National Conference. Now, the thing is this. The recent The Muslim Conference that was a event of Pakistan entering into a part of Mr. Jinah's Muslim League military alliance, for instance, with stood in the way, but ultimately it the U.S.A. in 1954 has complicated was defeated. That was the third issues. And Pakistan's membership of plebiscite. All these things clearly Baghdad Pact and SEADO also has demonstrate the fact that the Kash- complicated the issues. When this mirill decided in favour of a secular military aid came to Pakistan, the State, and they did not want a Mus- Prime Minister of Pakistan said that lim State, an argument on which this military aid would be helpful in Pakistan is basing its claim on solving the KaShmir problem. Kashmir in the Security Council; and all the other Member-States are fall- In spite of Mr. Eisenhower who said ing victim to it in 1954 that this aid would not be allowed to be utilised against another It is also true that we have com- oountry in aggression, the problem mitted certain mistakes. For instance, came for discussion before the Council the first mistake was on our part in meeting of the SEADO that was held our attitude to thp cease-fire act. in Karachi and also before the When OUr valient boys, our army boys Council meeting of the Baghbad Pact were marching against these tribal Council in Tehran, and Pakistan raiders, these marauders, these in- initiated that issue there. This shows vaders, all of a sudden, we cried halt that there is a vested interest in the at them, and as a result of that, one- Security Council under the auspices third of the State of Kashmir that of U.K. and U.S.A. And when the legally and constitutionally belongs Security Council fails to find a solu- to us, is now a part of Pakistan. tion or is indifferent to the Kashmir issue, the whole problem is clear The second mistake was when we before OUr eyes. allowed Sheikh Abdullah to repre- sent India at "Lake Success. "The press Now, there is the world press or- attache of Lord Mountbatten describes ganised in favour of Pakistan, and Sheikh Abdullah as a flamboyant per- this world press is having a ceaseless sonality. Here a flamboyant personality campaign against India for not agree- who went about making flamboyant ing to holding a plebiscite. When I speeches, and flamboyant ideas think of the plebiscite, I recall that got into his head in the three plebiscites were already held salubrious climate of Lake there. One was in 1938-39 when Success. This Sheikh Abudllah was there was a conflict between the only a provincial leader, not even a National Conference and the Muslim national leader. But it was the Conference for winning popularity Prime Minister who allowed Sheikh amongst the Muslim masses of the Abdullah, the lamb of Sheikh Abdullah State, and ultimately it was the to eat out of his own hands and oon- National Conference that came out verted the lamb into a lion that ulti- victorious. Another was in 1943 mately thundered back at its bene- when Mr. Jinnah went to Kashmir factor. This was a great mistake that and he thought that he would ride in we had committed, and we had given triumph to Srinagar, but he had to a handle to this world press, that sec- come back in disgrace and disgust, tion of the world press that is or- and he wanted to visit Kashmir and ganised against us. win it on the basis of the two-nation theory. That was the second plebis- Coming to the resolution, I know cite. The third was when the cam- that the withdrawal of the case is not 13377 Re o ~ re: APRIL 22, 1960 Withdr4tD4t of 13378 XCIIhmir C4Se fTom. UoN.O. [Shri Hem Barua] ed on Kashmir and there it equally technically possible, because there is no doubt that we were entitled to nothing in the U.N. Charter under take this matted to the United which once an item is admitted on the Nations and to the Security Council. agenda it can be Withdrawn. There But, in spite of the lapse of so much is no provision like that. Therefore, time the Security Council has not it is technically impossible. Now, yet been able to find out whether ag- supposing India withdraws it by force gression has or has not been com- or by some other method, then there mitted. The matter appears to me to might be other countries who might be quite clear. But in spite of this, place it before the Security Council; the learned people and the great men then, India gets involved in it. The of the world who are on the Security only way for India is to withdraw her Council have not been able to deter- membership from the Security Coun- mine whether aggression has been cil or from the UNO, which is not pos- committed or not. The fact that ag- sible and which must not be possible. gression was committed was denied by Therefore, I think that this resolution Pakistan at the beginning; but is not the right type of resolution and a short time after when they therefore, we do not want to support found it difficult to deny this resolution. On the other hand, that, they admitted aggression but we think that there can be con- said that they had committed aggres- sultations, and there might be dis- sion in self-defence because they ap- cussions between the two countries prehended an attack OIl Pakistan. for the relations between the two Theretore, they sent their forces. This countries are getting more and more is what they said in the Security improved. I would rather say that Council. But, in spite of all this, the in spite of the fact that Gen. Ayub wonder is that the Security Council Khan said very recently that we are has not yet been able to decide as to two countries facing each other with whether aggression has has or has not guns and bullets across the cease-fire been committed. line and that the Kashmir problem As regards the withdrawal of the cannot bQ solved unless and until Resolution, I do not think it is pos- Kashmir comes to them, we are con- sible to withdraw the case because fident that Kashmir will come to us. under the Articles ot the U.N. Char- When we lodged the complaint with ter any country can bring a comp- the Security Council ","e said that in laint. If we withdraw it, Pakistan is case the Security Councn does not de- there as a Member of the United cide the matter in time we would get Nations. They can also say that the into Kashmir-that part of Kash- complaint should be there. mir which is under the occupation of Pakistan. That is what the original Apart from Pakistan, I believe, the note of protest that we sent said. J Secretary-General has also the power have here the words with me. I can and the right to bring a complaint be- quote them. But there is no time for fore the U.N. He can bring a comp- it. If everything fails we can act on laint before the U.N. and the U.N. will have to take cognizance of it. it. Therefore, there is no question of our belng able to withdraw the comp- Sbri Mu.Lcband DUM (Farrukha- laint. My submission, therefore, b bad) : Sir, I congratulate the hOll. that the Resolution that has been mov- Member who has brought forward ed by my friend certainly has the this ResolutiOll. . But the only pur- effect of placing our point of view pose it could serve is to indicate to before the Security Council and the the world and to the United Nations world. I do not think that this Re- our view with regard to the an~er solution is one that should be passed. in which the United NatiOlls has pro- eeeded in this matter. There is no Shri Ma.hanty! Mr. Deputy-Speaker, 4iou.bt that .,p'.aion was eommunit- Sir, I rise to oppoa this ReIolutiOll 13379 Resoluticm re: V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Withdrawal of 13380 Kashmir case trom U.N.O. for two reasons. Fristly, there is no afraid, that a t ori~ cannot be ••t Kashmir question on the agenda of at rest. the Security Council. And, secondly, Secondly, there is no such ilIsue .. even though we withdraw our case the "Kashmir issue on the agenda of from the Security Council, the other the Secunty Councl1. Anyone may side, Pakistan may not be inclined go tnrough the proceedings of the to withdraw it. Therefore, the case Security Council on this Kashmir will linger on for what It is worth. question. In retrospect, 1 may say Only in the process we will lose an that In 11148, our delegation was led international platform where we have by the late Shri GopaJ.aswamy Ay- kept the issue alive. According to my yangar who was asslSted by an eDU- way of thinking, while the with- nent lawyer, Shri Setalvad. The later drawal of this case trom the Se- Ayyangar in his introfiuctory speech curity Council will confer on India which lasted for an hour took many no new advantage, it will decidedly thingS for granted and stated the case. create a disadvantage for India so far After that a fUibuster followed b:y as our keeping world conscience allve Sir Zafrullah Khan for long seven regarding this particular issue is con- days in which issues from genocide cerned. to Jamnagar, canal-water dispute, re.- Now, various Missions of thE: fugee rehabilitation problem and so U.N.O. have visited Kashmir. 'l'he on and so forth were brought. So tact has to be remembered that there much sO, that the entire issue was COD- is a stalemate and that the stalemate fused. There was no Kashmir issue cannot be broken by whatever WE: but there was the Indo-Pakistan might think or feel. FOr instance, a quarrel on various issues out of which stalemate has been created regarding Kashmir was one. At that point of the quantum of forces which should time, I fail to understand why the be maintained on both sides of tht! Government of India had agreed to eease-fire line. enlarge the scope. I know no answer Having accepted the basic concept will be ever offered to these questions. about the quantum of forces and about The man who could have offered any the need to have a plebescite, it IS answer, the Prime Minister, I know, really blaming the Security Council will maintain a silence on it. But it for no faun. of theirs. At this dis- ill the right of this House to know tance of time one really wonders why why the Government had agreed to this issue was rE!ferred to the Se- the mlargement of the scope and why curity Council at all. In the mean- it had agreed to the proposal that time, memoirs of Shri V. P. Menon thel t: would be no Kashmir questioD and the Memoirs of Campbell John- but what should be on the Security lIOn, men who haa' played very lead- Council's agenda would be Indo- ing roles in the days of Partition, Pakistan question on various issues. have appeared and from their writ- There is ~ Kashmir question on the ings we ftnd that against the inclina- Security' Council's agenda and there- tion of many leading members of 'the fore it cannot be withdrawn. Indian Cabinet thIs issue was referred Assuming we withdraw it, the to the Security Council. It has been Pakistan Government may .rrot .teel mentioned by Shri V. P. Menon that impelled to withdraw the case. There·· even Mahatma Gandhi was opposed lore, the case will linger and in the to refer this i ~ to £he Security bargain we will lose an international Council. It was intrinsically and platform where we have kept the basically a domestic issue -and we issue alive for what it may be worth. should have faced it In the appro- priate manner that was open to us. There is also another questiOll to There was no reasOll to have inwked which I would like to make a re- the authority of the Security COUIl- terence. I am DO admirer of the ott but aft.. havill, ~ e It, I .. o eri~ blo. Dor am 1_ Re,olution 1'8: APRIL 22, 1960 Withdrawal of Kashmir case from U.N.O. [Shri Mulchand Dube] us when \he Khshmir question comes Ildruu't:l' of the communist bloc. The up next time or in the distant fULure. fact is to be viewed in the proper p.::rspective, how the Anglo-Ameri- Perhaps, Sir, Kashmir will be kept Cllll influence is at work. It is you like a carass on the forum of the who have accepted the concept of nat.i.ons, and as my hon. frIend on plebescite and 'so you must have the o.her SIde said, Kashmir being a courlaie enough to say: we do not part of India that is indt!pt!ndent from stand by the plebescite; today Kash- the U.N.O. tentacles, we shall stand Dlir is part and parcel of India. The by Kashmir. The people of Kash- Anglo-American bloc is not going to mir sald-l was fo.rtunate to go there tillottle your throat. You can make only once-that they wanted a de- 111.1 announcement that Kashmir is cent justice to be given to them. The toJay part and parcel of India; you people of Khshmir are a very peace- can say that in the International forum ful type of people. I have travelled that in view of the fact that Kashmir in many Muslim countries, at least in IS part and parcel of India, we do not countries where there are plenty of st&nJ by the plebescite. These things Muslims, like en~ra Asian Repub- can be said. But we are not prepar- lics, Africa and elsewhere-Turkey ~ to give vent to these hard and especially. I say that the Muslims I bitter truths but blame the Anglo- found in Kashmir were the harmless American bloc to find a scapegoat for creatures, unaffected, and they want- ones fllilurt!. That is not proper. ed a decent justice to be meted out With t e ~ words, I am sorry I have unto them. If you go round in the tc, oppose my hoo. friends Resolution. villages you will find that they have 16 hrs. not got the wherewithal. They say 8hri Joachim Alva (Kanara): Sir, that tney are stIli fakirs and their the spirit is willing but the flesh is condition is basically the same whe- weak. Morally, we want to withdraw ther in the old regime or the new our case from the UNO but technical- regime. When the Maharaja turned ly we are caught in the web of a c:ean pair of heels on Kashmior at technicalities. Kashmir has been the time of the tribal onslaught it made a football in international was a very sad spectacle. No rull'r politics, and the American B:oc, es- can run away trom his people in pecially, has not been as kindly to times of dIstress, he must either re- us as they played a great part in the main and saVe them or die. Be- Suez crisis and in the recent South cause of the heroic S1)irit of t.he African racial crisis. America In'o- Kashmir people not one Hindu was claims great principles of tolerance touched during the invasion. The and kindness towards other nations. Muslim leaders of Kashmir, especial- but I wish it had shown as much fair- ly around Baramula and elsewhere, ness and justice in the Kashmir case may God bless the name of Sherwani as it has shown in the Suez and also who was killed-stood like one man recently in the South African Racial and not a hair of a Hindu was touch- debate. ed. That is something for which we America today is being fol- shall indeed be proud of our secular lowed by nearly mOore than two dozen character of State. The same thing powers of South America in the did not happen in our country be- Kashmir issue. We make an appeal cause we had our own rivers of to the South American powers. Cuba blood and We also proved that we has shown a great amount of sturdy can be as bad or still worse when commonsense and independence by communal passions were roused and getting out of the rut of· foreign in- the same is the story of Kashmir, fluence. We do hope and pray that the massacre of Baramula is one of the Sout¥- American powers, the two the worst chapters in the history of dozen powprs, at least a majority of Kashmir. A Spanish nun who had them, will vote for us and stand by come there hardly six months be- 13383 Resolution re: V AISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Withdrawal of 13384 Kashmir case trom U.N.O. fore was massacred. The nuns, whe- 8hr1 Hem Baroa: He conveniently ter. Secondly, I think. ow: CIb\! i.i ,refused to hear the bell. Ittrong on merits. I think. the case that he been put up by our spokea- SIIrI S. L. Saksena (Maharajganj): man, Shri Krishna Kenon, has been Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I think one very ably put and we must Ulalik of the motlt I oriola acts that we did him for that wonderful pl'elienLatiOil was to 8eI1d our troops in Kaahmir of our cue. We must not feU the when it was invaded. But, I think, consequence6l. It may be delayed. an equally inglorious act was when But'.e cannot lose it because right we accep.ed the cease-fire. I think is on our sid&-We have been the in both of these cases it was the in- victimg of aggression-and no power fluence of (Zeneral Auchinleck who on earth, howsoever big or powerful wu our Commander-in-Chief and it might be, can depriYe u& of 'Who was coruulting our Generala oa Jammu and Kashmir. We can never the front that perauaded the hon. lose Kashmir. In fact toda,. we are Prime Minister to enter into the tlgh1ling for Ladakh.. Why! If we agreement that ended in the ceue- were not in posseaion of IiCalllam.i.r. hr!: w rule the Prime Kinister wu in what is the position of Ladakh; what Burope. is the trouble with Ladakh! So, eY'€Il Pakistan in fact admits that Kashmir When I went to Kashmir lloon after is ours. We arc fighting against the cease-H.re, 1 'Was surprised to ftnd aggres3ion in Ladakh, and we l!t'e from our Generals who were there negotiating. 1!hat we had Just to walk over and probably with a month left they 'Would have gone to the borders of We lIIhould not withdt'ilw the C/UiC". Kashmir. But unfortunately the Bri- There is no question of withdrawine: tISh Commander-in-Chief betrayed our case from the U.N.O. It cannot us and collaborated with his British be withd.rawn. It will be a blundet'. counterpart in Pakistan. He gave a Now we will have to go to the end. report to the hon. Prime Minister and And I hope we shall be able to will said that he accept this agreement. the case, because ours u. Ii riJht The result is that for so many yearll cause, it is a just cause and we shall ~r prob'em h!3 d.ragged on. succeed. Another blunder that we commit- Shri ADsar Barnai: I am one of ted was, again on the advice of the those who believe that the United British Governor-General here, that Nations is one of the ereatest achieve- 'We sent our troops to Kashmir. That ments of the human race tot: peace was another blunder because he knew and for stopping war, although I am that both the parties 'Ware interested conscious that in spite of the best in it. In fact, partition was made by e1'forts of the Indian delegatioo head- the British simply because they did ed by Shri V. K. Krishna Ken on, it !lot want to giye up Gilgit and th iA,«fI .. i~ ~ ~ \ill ~ ~ mT ~t ~ I lj'1;« 'ifr3f ~ ffimf ~ ~ I rrr~ Wtl'T ~ ~ 00 . Shri rfariq has moved this Re!!olu- Secondly, at that time our one desire was to limit the rea in~ of conflict. ~ which has given us an opportu- nity of reminding ourselves of this Reference has hem made--and I think ri~ t problem. It will live with us wllesl! it is only to refer to it-allega- tion has been made to the sin;ster role a~ until Pakistan vacates its ag~re of Lord Mountbatten in this affair. BIOD o~ Kashmir territory, because Apart from being a reflection on Lord what lS involVed here is really the Mountbatten, it is rather a reflp.ctioa Sovereignty of this land. n ~ is the on this country. We were a self- n a en~ isrue. ~ Resolution re: APRIL 22, 1HO WithclTawal Of Kuhm'" cue from U.N.O_ \ [Shri Krishna Menon] governing Dominion at that time and In this matter we have to stand from it was incumbent on the Governor- on various factors. Ours being a General as the Head of the State to act modem nation, though an old countl'y according to the advice of his Minis- being a modern nation, having o~ ters. So, it we place the responsibility into independence after the emergence on Lord Mo1Ultbatten We are really of the United Nations and the Charter, blaming our o ~ent and nur the commitments in relation to the Prime Minister. But, in fact, what is Charter are part of our Constitution. alleged is not the case at all. Lord Therefore, we are bound as much by Mountbatten's role in this, as Head of the municipal law of this country as by the State, was to accept accession. But, the international obligations which in the subsequent letter that went out have been sanctified or accepted by our there was some reference to the ascer- mWlicip:ll law. We cannot get away tainment of the opinion ot the people from the obligations of the Charter of to which I shall refer !ater. the United Nations. Secondly, it is not our interest to get Therefore, the main position in re- away from it. The solution now pro·· &,ard to this was this: we went there posed, jt it were accepted, would be at a time when we did not know as something like saying, it you have got much as we did later. And, our lack a bad headache, cut oft' your head. That of knowledge was not due so much to would be no remedy. So, to i a ~ our lack of care as to the fact of deli- the United Nations and to lend our berate concealment on the other side. support even it we are badly hurt And, ~ when Pakistan made its reply would be to disown and disengage our- -some 15 days later-to the United selves from all the obligations, moral Nations they answered our application and otherwise we have entered into. It with sC'veral points-I think it was 14 would accentuate or rather would talte or sometrung of that kind. But only us away from the forces that operate one of them referred to Kashmir the in this world towards world peace and others were refel"enCeS to Junagadh, co-operation and human developml!nt. Hyderabad and genocide and the two What is more, it would belie every pro- nation theory and all kinds of things fession and every declaration that we which had notbing to do with this mat- have made before that body in this re- ter. The long reply did not refer to gard. It is quite true that aggression the Kashmir State except a two line has not been vacated in Kashmir. It is paragraph or so in which they denied also true that even the United Nation!! aggression. The others are irrelevant. in its resolutions-it i'l sometimes for- Our complaint was, therefore, in fact, gotten-has ~ in favour of our met by denial which, afterwards, was sovereignty of that region, because proved by U.N. Observers to be wrong. every resolution speaks about the Therefore, there has been no legiti- sovereignty of Jammu and Kashmir- mate or proved fact in support ot ~ e Jammu and Kuhmir is an integral part denial. of India-and because there are no States in this country, whether it be Reference has been made to the Iact the Maharashtra that has to appear or that aggression has not been found by Gujarat that has to appear next week the United Nationi'. This is to throw Or Kerala in which there is trouble away the support we have got from the orten or Bengal or Punjab, there are no findings of the U.N. Comm.is&ion itself States with. international boundaries, when Sir Owen Dixon 9tated that on willi frootiere. The !rootiers of Jammu such and such a date when the Pakis- and KubmJr are on the Arabian Sea, tani forces crossed thl! fron tier they . the Bay of Bengal and the toot of the committed a breach of international Himalayu. That baa been aanelifled by law. That might be a roundabout way the declaration of the U.N. where it Qf saying it. But it wu a finding that 8pe&ks at. the IOYereilDtJ' at. Ute .'ll"eIIlion had been committed. Jammu and ][uhmir GovemmMl1 13403 Resolution re: VAlSAKHA 2,1882 (SAKA) WithdrowaL of 13404 Kashmir case trom U.N.O. which is indeed the Government that is Uke any other Government<, ~ t of slu;.ll not mention and were ~ ~ !ny, CIUI' COD8titutional arrangements. It is ''Macmillan was my ancestor and tne 80 by international law; it has been whole continent of America 1& part of accepted by Pakistan, by ourselves Ilnd my country", we could not stop him the British Government at the time of doing it, You may send him to somE' Partition. It is international law. place far mental cure. If the Security Council were to pass any resolution or the SEATO powers were to say ~at any country below the 32nd paraJIel is Secondly, it is the will of the people under its prOtectiOll, we cannot stop ~e e e declared in their consti- them. We can only refuse to !Iccept tuent assembly and afterwards by two them. There was thus no question of different elections from which latter any resolution being accepted. only those people who were held away by duress were prevented from parti- It takes me to a point of the plebi- cipation. Even if they had voted against Bcite. There is the "Plebiscite Front" it would still leave a large electoral and what not. What has been their majority in favour of the declared will. view a.t the U.N.? We accepted it as a Therefore, the plebiscite has been gone working basis some years ago. Some through. We come to this question years ago, there was a resolution which raised by Shri Sadhan Gupta. He said was divided into three parts; it ia what that we made a mistake in maki'.lg a may be called a concertina reao1ution. commitment about the plebiscite. We One part is tied up with the otbpr. are inclined to accept the versions of The second part becomes operative ather people about us; we are even only when the first part is performed; hkely sometimes to accept such termB. so also, about the third part. Our con- Two or three years ago, it was common tention has been and I am g1ad to ..,. in our country to speak about Kashmir that it is now regarded as at least not and India as if they were two separate controvertible-that the first part has countries. We have got out of it. Simi- not been performed. That first part larly when we speak about the plebi- was that the Pakistani elemenw in the scite' and so on, we are accepting the territory of Jammu and Kashmir must version of people who do not agree withdraw. Their contention wu that with us. We made no commitment in iliey were not there; and it was said reprd to the plebiscite without any that all the torcesJ that there wpre at conditions. True, we have referred 10 that time, except !iuch people as were it. The only re8olutioIl.'l of. the U.N. by required. tor Jocal poli.ce work in the which we are bound are the resolution :IO- thia resolution in order to tion of India all a hostage in regard to f".ct the area at war, in order ~a Kashmir-a large hostage indeed, of 1St ., ~i t Purpo8e of the Uruted million. So, that is the third factor, ~a~ may be plUIloted. that we should bear in mnd. The fourh is that it is quite true the 8eCand point we have to remem- "e reaentment of this House and of this ... is thiB, that we have not taken • country Ill! a whole in regard to the ''Di!puie'' to the United Nations. There Security Council is understandable, is no dispute, so far as we are concern- that the Council is composed of 11 ed, a'bout Kaahmir. There is no more nations, most of them nations whOM a dilllpute about Kashmir than there ia cons:itutions are founded :n the idea a dispute about U.P. What is before at truth and liberty, who have not .e Seeurity Council, under the terma thrown their weight on the side of re- Ii1f • c.arter, is a "Situation" which lUting aggression . .. 'Yery different fram a "Dispute". ADd, what is more, the Security Coun- Even as late as last year, the Sec- 41 bas not got the powen under the retary-General, when called upon in a.aner to adjudicate in a legal dis- another connection to s·ate the juridi- pate. That could become the function cal position about the chang -'I of Iolf tile World Court if we aeree to iti .ilovereiiIlty, laid that no act of war ;:i1lJli8dieaan. But no legal issues can could be penntted by the nit~ lile resolved Qt the Security Council Nations to change a~ is called the _deY the terDl8 of the Charter. There- itatus juris. That is to say, the State tore, if n is a "An unofficial cloak and dagger "I hope to have an army which movement has been launched in- is highly skilled and it is on that side Indian Kashmir by fire-eating that the future of Pakistan will General Akbhar Khan, a veteran depend .... The American commi.t- of the 1948-49 Kashmir war days, ment was to give the Pakistan to counteract the internal distress army the means to create certain and bolster up his own position .... units that would balance certain Thus, this tacit encouragement of divisions. This programme has subversive IllOvements of General now been geared in. It is moving Akbhar Khan-suggests he intends splendidly. It is a limited pro- to have KaShmir by fair means or gramme." by foul" 17 brs. Then he goes 'on in various places to talk: about taking these places by force, It was "limited" two years ago and it if need be. Our policy is based on is still "limited". Then he goes on to friendship with our neighbours, who- say-this is a press report: ever they might be, but equally it is based. on resistance to aggression. "General Ayub said that this was, for the first time, that exer- Now much has been said about our cises envisagin,g the use of tactical preparedness in this matter. We can- atomic weapons were being staged not shUit up our minds, and indeed we in Pakistan .... Hitherto. the Pakis- did not, and we told the Security tan Army'a studies have been con- Council that on the other side of the fined to studies of atomic warfare Indo-Pakistan international frontier, in the tactical. field. 'To put our not the cease-fire line but upon the obsm-vations to a practical test, ether side of the Indo-Pakistan inter- this exercise is being £aged.' The national line is not only the cOuntry of conclusionS! and the technique of Pakistan but a member of a great fighting in nuclear battle-fields military alliance. That is to uy, it is would Ix- eTolnd from this exer- like our war machinery in Britiah cise. The exercise is being staged days. Thi.o; country's power at that keeping in view' the terrain in West time wu not what was colleeted her. Pakistan plains ...... but what wu here and the Britiah war office put togl!lther. Similarly. This is the im.poriant par. 01. it. Pakistan ~ a in a ,reatet- military alliance and in view of the varioUB "The exerciae is heine ataged conditions, I do not want to 10 into keeping in new the terrain in creater detail about it. It i8 IIIlid or West Pakiftan plaina where- thouaht that 'IIle cMDl!! fJI. GoYeft- riverine obnIclel ...... Re o ~ re: it ~ a of Kcuhmir CASe f'rom U.N.O. ~ i Kriahna ~ Now that ta e~ WI to 1he wt cd our positions.' Govel:nmenl ClUlllO\' accePt ~ IfQid: the Resohltlon as it stwulll for the "There aI"1? no rivers on the reasons I have lltatedallli Jlut because ~er side in the way of obstacles." Borne technical posiUo11l:l CIIU'lIUi' be '.naat is, the whole idea is tblWt all these fOwld if 1\'(' wllnt to, 'l'hei'. are ihings are in order to resist the o ~ technical difficulties, but they uo lJDjon but the riverine obstacles are probably be overcome. It may eyen OJ) ~ side. I I!IIlid: be that the Security Council is tired of it. But suppose that you withdraw '"I do not have a copy 01. a map it from the Security Council, thl!re W ... circulate but you know where nothing to prevent the whole issue from nverine obstacles are." ioing before the General Assembly. 'ThE- report iDee on 10 say: At the present mODll!ut it ~ not! go before the General Ass:nll>ly where "The battle has bem developing it is possible to gear votes even more during the past two months. Now, because it hi tied liP in ,he Security the climax ill! a o ~ to reach." Council. Two organisations ot the Thi5 has been the position two yelll'l ni~ Nations cannot debate the ago. It is not my pUrPOse to heat up same question, at the same time. any difficulties or to come in the way Therefore it does Il(It go in the way .d Bny conciliatory processes that go on. the more assume!. But if we were to ~ back to this question of ex- withdraw this question from the i~ inside, durine the 10llt three Security Council, because We want yeal'E there haTe been 229 cases of to, coer' ain conseqUt!nC"es follow. WI'! explosion in the territory of Jammu would have pro('),'limed to the world and Kashmir, on the whole workin, that now the Charter is no lonl:er eo1 at an average of 90 a year, that worth adhering tl). That will be a i:s \0 say, one in every four daYI. graTe decision to take. When I say explosions, at present they are not what may be called merely Therefore it is not only Kashmir «Iuntrymade explosives of any kind that is involved. It is the basis ot but they have war materials in them. our foreign policy, it i!) the hasis ot AlBo, in the same period there have the world organisation and our whole been inftltrationl into our territory, approach to peace and world co-opera- -.t startine at just over a hundred tion that are illvolved. Therefore ~ ing up to 211 in 1958, 152 in 1959 whatever risks we may have in 'his laud 25 in the few months of this year, matter-and there are no risks just thai is, the first two months of this because the Question is in the Secu- year. Infiltrations mean not people rity Council-the only eventually i. who come because they are hungry. that it ill possible for Pakistan to The infiltrators are int.ernational cri- bring It up now and then and have minals who are penetTatinl our fron- a debate. But there are no military tiers and who have been ~it er arres- risks just because the matter is in the 'led or rounded up and tlO on. But as Security Council. On the lnst occa_ ~i e nt tan e obtain, we do not deal sion when this was brought up bE'!ore with all these people nery time. the Council of Pakistan the ri!1k wu They can be pushed back. They are of foreign intrusion under the guise pushed back. But these are the fel- of importing "United Nations Emer- o ~ who really try to do harm. So gency Force". It was sought to be there is an act of incipient aggression proposed in the interests of Pakistan, against us going on all the time. by some of the western power.s that This should be borne ill mind and it a United Nations Eemergency Force !bould not leJ)!e into the background ehould go into the territory of Jammu CIt our thinking when we are talking and Kashmjr. The Government's efibe territorial integrity of our Jand. replf at that time in no uncertaa vAISAit.RA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Withclrawal of 114t' Ka.shmir case frOfft U.N.O. terma and in extremely categorical one. Will that we would not allow unity. That way, the political ... in any circumstances, toreign soldiers tocial equilibrium will SO shift filit to tread on our soil, that is to say, there will be no option for the people we would not pernLit the brinein8 on the other side except to join tb.ett iD.-not only not permit we would resist brethren on thiil aide of the ea~ and push them out-we would physi- Bre line. eal.1y not permit anyone entering the territory where our administrative Thus it would. be bett.« fOt' w. It writ ran. U the idea was to bring would be part of our ()I)liCT tba\ we them on the other side we may not do not attempt to do that by Ute • be able to prevent it except by an act nolation of an agreement we hi.ye of war. But we would regard that u reached. We have told the Seeurt" further Yiolation ot our sovereignit7 Council that under intematimal It" and with international support. eyery agreement that we hue eater- Therefore, in 1958 I think. it WU, the . ed into, we mall carry out a. we Goyernment of India very stoutly allall not accept an agreement because resisted the propos:a1 for the sending aomebody ilIl7S we hue accepted. it. of a United ~a o Emergency Force Secondly, we have also confirmed, we tor this purpose, .-hich would have have pointed out that there are 001"- meant the sending of troops of certain tain principles and doctrines or lbtel'- countries acting as international national law which haTe to be ob8erY- soldiers-tor what purpose, one does edt for example what i£ called '" Dot know-because that would have d"biu.v mittiUl, that is to i&Y, it a treat,- been violation of our territory, and is entered into by two sidea has te the Security Council was prevented be interpreted, it has to be alwats from liIueh action. interpreted liberally in favour 01. t ~ person who carries the greater blll"- dens in the implernentinlr ot it. 'rhere ill at the pre.;;ellt moment no aetu:ll physical danger to us, but Therefore. in regard to all t e ~ there i.:i this questioll remaining un- matters a dift'erent view has toO be resolyed but in the Council. From taken. But it very much depen.ds :\ moral and legal point of view there upon the determination of thls coun- UI much to be gained. Therefore, try. We may not forget that not long Government cannot agree at all to ag()--it is now getting on to thirteen. this resolution. Speaking for myself, years-this couatry, this part of India it 'wou·d be very wrong for me to was invad.ed, invaded first by irregu- say that it should not have been lars numbering about a quarter mil- brought, because there are various lion, and for a few days a single bat- parliamentary methods of raising talion of the Indian army was rei- issues. This is perhaps one of them. ponsible for checking the tide of inva- It is important that we should have sion. And on the soil of Kaslunfr this question in our minds, partly lie buried some of the best offiCel':> because of the presence of the Indian and men of our fighting forces. We anny on the soil of Kashmir, and much owe a debt of gratitude to them., and, more so on account of the economic and what is more, we owe a debt of obli- democratic e e o ~nt that has gone gation to see that there shall be nG on in the State of Jammu and residing on our part--no ~r Kashmir. ing on our part in thi.i matte... Kashmir is a live issue with U. There is comparative quietude, and because it is part of our sovenq,. the solution of the problem of Jammu territory, not because it is • piece: of anel Kashmir will rest on the indus- Jand; it is part of our history, it is trial anel economic development ot part of our kinship, it is a sector of our lImd and the maintenance of OUI' our people. What ia more, the ec... - ftesolution re: APRIL 22, 1980 Wit"drawal Of 13411 Kaahmir case from U.N.D. [Shri Krishna Menon] i~ ij- ~ ~ it; ft;nf f.f; ~ mic development of that territory, the development of its resources, and ~ ~ if \ifr ~ lii1 ~ tt W ~ the prevention of the intrusion of the ~ ~ ~ iffl ~ ~ ~ 'fiT ~ apparatus of international conflict in- &cfi ~ i3fTlf I to the Asian Continent, is very much dependent upon our ability to main. tain our hegemony over this strategic \iii" i ~ ri~ ~ ~ area. ~ ~ ~ if n ~ if<',- Dr. Ram Subhag Singh (Sasaram): i ~ it. i ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ...,. ~ ~ Sir, because a little reff".rence was made to me, may I say a word? I Ii ~~ t r~~ ...,. ~ ~ ~ I am very grateful to my friend .... Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. -n ~ r ~ iiJl1R ~ Dr. Ram Subbag Singh: Only one ~ ~ om: it 'OfT Q"f. ~~ 'WiT ! thing, if you permit me. Otherwise I will !;i t down. ~ ~ - J)tJ. - r - t. ~ Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): 'I'here cannot be a speech of Shri ,-",' ~ ~ - ~ ~ Krishna Menon without his interrup· tion, and there cannot be a speech of ~ cl ... ,.... ~ JW ~ ~ e Dr. Ram Subhag Singh without a reply from him. ~ 4S t.J LJt4 ~ ~ ~ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri A. M. i.. ~ .JI, ~ 1. ~ Tariq. lIe will be very brief now. ~ ~ ,,' LJ',s ~ ".:.lol.)q. ~ lAo ~o ~ : ~ Wit ~ mf,if, ~ ~ ~ {"11(?41l1"l - <. CfiT ,S" LtL-.. ')l.A ~ ~ r'til .e ~t~~it trn~ i ~ .e ~~ o ~ ~ ~ "I.t! I.IJ ~ ~ f.f; ~ ~ it. ~ crre ~ it. ~ CfiT ~~ ~ 9ft< f-;m ~ ~ .! ..3$ ...,utf ~ ~~ j .el ~~ ~~~~ rr 1. ~ ~... $ t.,;; ~ ~ .. ''''''' mr ~ ~ fJRf ~ ~ ~ ~ (f1I' i o ~ t ~ t ~~ir ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ifr f.f; 1l ~ it. ~~ ~ ifi¢ I t ~~ ~~ t ~ . ~ ",,)t • "r"'-",,...J ft'R'I' ij-, "IF: ~ ~ ~ ~ it ~ o)A ,-,_S ),' -. ~ .. ~ ~ ~ 'lU ~ t, f.f; ~ .. \'1 if, mit ~~it~~~R~ IS -.! t~ !1ft .:01 ~ ~ ~ Qlfctifdl"l ...,. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 1...; .!I, .L i-.>+- ~~~ i~~ R Jt.U.-- ~ Ifft, ~ romre it; ~ cJ1J;....,.w. ~~ , ~ ,'''' ~ {t, itTMr ~ ~ I ~ it; ~ ~ .C1jl.t-' ""s ~ ~ tf 1:Jt:r-Sl.t, ~~ t R ~~~~~~ ri~~~ i ~~ )ot . ~ t~ ~ t d ~~ 13419 VAlSAKHA I, 1883 (SAKA) l; DllDIIIIion. re: 13,,20 . l'nu,ographs 01 Resolution re: withdrawal of Vote'TS of Calcutta Ka.rhmir ca.re South-W est Parlia- from U.N.O. mentary Constituenc'll Bon. Memben: Yes. ~ ~ ~ ~ .i ... ..s,l... - ,,s The Resolution was, by leave, with4 drawn. ~ ~ ~ -u,AIl ;.!-.s' .. - u'" Sbri Kallka Singh: He has with· drawn it conditionally. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No conditions attached to it. 17.12 Imi. DISCUSSION RE. PHOTOGRAPHS OF VOTERS OF CALCUTTA SOUTH- WES'r PARLIAMENTARY CONSTI- TUENCY Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): You will remember, Sir, that while mat.. ing a statement on an adjournment motion or & calling attention motion the other day, the hon. Deputy Kud.l- ter of Law clarified, or tried to clarify, the position or conditions prevailinc in Calcutta relating to this by-elec- tion. I am going to quote from his statement to show that the by-elec- ..,j.il..i:-,oJJA i.J*'"' • .".r.. rf,J/ ,,1 tion in file Calcutta South-West CODI- tituency it! going to be held in • chaotic condition. cll - ~ ~ .i. )o4l i. ~~ According to the figures supplied. by the hon. Deputy Minister, the total number of voters in that conl- tituency is 3,41,933. Out of thla number, 2,I!1,OOO voters have been 8uccessfuly photographed up ~ the 18th April, 1960. 1'7.13 hn. [MHo SPJ:A1tER in tile Chair] Identity cards totaHine 1,90,600 haft been issued to the voters. A further '7,000 cards sent out by the authoriti. [ - l' have been returned undelivered... Hr'. Depaty-Speaker: I ahalI now t ~ persons were temporarily a en~ J)ut amendments Nos. 8 and " of Sbri or had pennanently left their rem- a~ee to the vote of the Bouse. dences. So if you summarise all the figures, it comes to this that 1,26,933 voters have not been photo- ~ omendmenu 1.Oer. pvt And MllfI- graphed, while 7,000 Identity cardl tived have been returned undelivered. I may mention for the informatiaa Mr. Depat7 .Speaker: Hu the hon. of the House that when they photo- Kember the Iene of the HoUle to eraphed these 7,000 voters, ther "Wi1bdraw bis reeolutionT must have been stayin, In lOme APRIL D, 1.tlO Photograph, of 11422 Voterl 01 C4lcuttd South-Wert P4rli&- mentBrv COftoItituacli [Shrl S. Il. Banerjee] voter'. photograph taken preft,.. Itousea. How can it happen that after ously has not been .uccessfu.l auda the photographs were taken, all a voter also will be photographed ~ e 7,000 voters either temporarily again in this otBce. All 'Voten M permanently disappeared from the are requeated to brin, with tilED place! It su"passes my imagination, evidence of identity, the aame as and I am unable to understand, how they were required. to produce at those .oters were photographed; and the photo centree. if they were genuine votera, where did they disappear! Those voters who were pb.oM- eraphed after the 31st March, It might be said that those people It,., may expect to get their identi. must ha.e left their residences 01' the particular locality and gone else- cards at their placea of l"Ytdence where. My little experience of Cal- by 2Srd April 1980." eutta i9 that anybody who gets a I would in.ite your attention t. • .. Ilouse does not leave it unless he is word 'may'. dead, because there is absolute scar- "If they do not recei.e ~r i city of accommodation in Calcutta. by that date they also are reqlIP.st- So, the position comes to this that ed to visit the omce of the undcl'- 1,%8,933 persons have not been photo- signed with necessary pl.'OOf fJIl Il'aphed, and 24,400 voters have not identity by ~ t April 1960.-. been delivered their identity cards. If we add another 7000 to that, it I would remind this HOllie that ihe oomel to 21,400. election is to take place Oft lilt May, 1980. The last paragraph in the tott~ I shall read out for the information flcation reads thulI: ~ the House a notification issued by ~ri P. K. Bose, Electoral Registra- "As far ail practicable ever.r tion Officer, Calcutta. I am quotin, endeavour will be made to issue from The HindtUtan Standard dated identity cards to all these votel'll tl\e 17th April, 1960. It reads thus: before lst May, 1960 .... "All voters of the Calcutta The election awts on bl May. South-West Parliamentary Consti- So, from th.ia notice which wa!' tuency who have not yet been is!lued bv the electoral registratlc:m photog"aphed under circumstan- officer, Calcutta, it fa absolutely clear ces which can be expl:tined to the that he iH not even sure whether the 'atisfaction of the undersigned all identity cards will be issued or nDt. also those who have been photo- Im"gine a condition where out of graphed before the 31st of March, 3,41,933 voters, only ~ 'Voters 1980 but have not yet received have ~n oto~a e ~ iden- their identity cards are hereby tity cards were returned undelivered. r-equested to come to the office of Nearly 14,400 men have not received the undersigned at 10lJl7A, Suren- their identity cards. Imagine the dra Nath Raneriee Road. Cal- ehaotic condition in whim t:hIa elee- edtta Ilnv dllV during offtce hours tion is taking plaee. before 23rd April 1980." That is up to tomortow. I should like to make it clear in this House that I do not stand ffW "Those voters who have satis- postponement of this eleetion. I do factory reasons fol' not being not come from Calcutta. But my fear photographed so long will be !S only this, It this House wan.ta tJ& photolO'll'Ohed in the nfflce while uphold the banner of demoeracy In photographs which could not be this country. it will have to CGnside1" delivered due to "b"ence of their whether 1.2ft.000 men sbould be de- owners from their houses will be pri'Yed of their legitimate right to 'Vote. made over to them from thi' That is • fundament,,} r ~t JU&l'Ilft- afIlce. In ease it it found that • teed under the Constitution. 13423 Discussion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) PhotogTaphs of 13424 Voters of Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentary Constituency This question was raised durins The Deputy MiDJster of Law (Shri the discussion on the Demands for ~a a a i On a point of order, Grant of the Law Ministry. My hon. SIr. As I have already stated, in the friend Shri Sadhan Gupta had raised statement which I have laid before it. A very pertinent question was the House. the legality of the matter asked by my hon. freind Shri Tridib is to be heard by the Calcutta High Kumar Chaudhuri, as to why there Court on Monday. So, I think, the was delay in this by-election. I discussion can only be confined to might mention that nearly a year or find out the steps taken by the Elec- at least ten months have passed since tion Commission .... Shri Biren Roy who was a sitting Member of this House was unseated Shri S. M. Banerjee: I am not men- by the Supreme Court. tioning the legal point, Sir. Shri T. B. VittaI Rao: One and a Mr. Speaker: Order, order. The half years. hon. Member will kindly resume hiI seat. Under rule 195: Shri S. M. Banerjee: The question was asked by Shri Tridib Kumar ''There shall be no formal Chaudhuri as to why there was delay. motion before the House nor Shri A. K. Sen replied: voting. The member who has given notice may make a short "But I may tell my hon. friend statement and the Minister shall Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri reply shortly. Any member who that the delay was not due to has previously intimated to the photographing. On the contrary, Speaker may be permitted to take the delay was due to the fact that part in the discussion." after photographing started, as I anticipated, it was fOlmd that 40 This is something like a half-an- per cent of the rolls was absolu- hour discussion; only the time is tely incorrect". twice as much. So, according to the statement of the I have heard the hon. Member. Law Minister, a screening was done, Some other hon. Members have also and the figure of 3,41,933 is the correct given notice. So, all that I would t~ re it does not include as far as I say is that the hon. Member should can make out from the statement of confine himself to stating what the the Law Minister, any bogus voter. grievances are and what the remedy So, after screening, the figure came would be. We are not going into to 341,000. For the information of the the fundamentals as to whether it is House y,. may state that the number of legal or not. voters in this constituency in 1957 Shri S. M. Banerjee: My whole was 403,712; and: after reenin~ in 1960, the number of voters was speech will be based on the state- 3.41,933; 2.15,000 were photographed ment made by the hon. Minister. I and identity cards issued to 1,90,600; am not going to say anything more; and I believe .... and the number of men deprived of the vote is 126,000. So, one-third of Mr. Speaker: Not about the legality the voters of this constituency are which is sub judice. unable to cast their votes because of the delay on the part of Government. Shri S. M. Banerjee: The hon. Minister mentioned certain clauses of Now, I would like to read the pro- the Representation of the People visions of the law. I am not a lawyer Act. I am not going to mention any- and I know I shall be told in reply .• thing which the hon. Minister did 299 (AI) LS-8 13425 Diacussion re: APRn. 22, 1960 Photographs of 13426 Voters of Calcutta South-West ParHa- mentarv Constituency [Shri S. M. Banerjee] not mention. I think the hon. Minis- "have been supplied with iden- ter made the statement knowin, tity cards with or without their fully well-as a lawyer-that the respective photographs attached case is before the High Court. I am thereto;" only mentioning that .... My submission is that the drafter of Mr. Speaker: The point is this. this Bill, which ultimately became an Whatever is before the Court for a Act, could visualise the chaotic con- decision should not be touched lest it ditions that would prevail in such Ia should prejudice the decision. bye-election in Calcutta. So, he used the words 'have been supplied'. Shri S. M. Banerjee: I am not re- Supplied by whom? The onus or res- ferring to this. ponsibility is on the Government or the election machinery. That is my Mr. Speaker: The legality of it submission. should not be touched. How the Then, the draftsman said: photographs can best be taken and other things could be done may be "identity cards with or without mentioned. The hon. Member has their respective photographs". already taken 13 minutes. He had visualised that the identity Shri S. M. Banerjee: I should be cards may be ready but the photo- be given at least 15 minutes, Sir. graphs may not be supplied, because they have begun this Himalayan job, Mr. Speaker: I will give him two a new experiment very late. It may more minutes; he started at 5.10. happen that all the photographs may not be taken. After all the camera Shri S. M. Banerjee: Sir, the dis- is not a sten-gun that it can be used cussion started at 5.15. to kill about 2,000 men in a few- minutes. After all it takes time. He Mr. Speaker: No, no; I came earlier had in his mind that this condition Anyhow I will allow him 5 more may take place and this contingency minutes. may arise and so used the word very cautiously, "have been supplied with Shri S. M. Banerjee: So, Sir, I identity cards with or without the want to read from the amending Act respective photographs." This is the which we passed in 1958, to avoid expression which the framers of the bogus voting or impersonation. The statutory rule use and I would read it: Act .says this. I am reading section 61 (b). "The Electoral Registration Officer for such notified consti- "for the production before the tuency shall, as soon as may be, presiding officer or a polling officer after the issue of the notification of a polling station by every such under sub-rule (1) arrange for the elector as aforesaid of his identity issue to every elector of an iden- card before the delivery of B tity card prepared in accordance ballot paper or ballot papers with the provisions of this rule. to him if under rules made in The identity card shaH (a) be that behalf under the Represen- be prepared in duplicate; lb) tation of the People Act, 11150, contain the name, age, residence electors of the constlt'.lency 1n and such other particulars 01 the which the polling station 1S S1tua- elector as may be specified by the ted have been supplied .... " Election Commission; (c) have affixed to it Ii photograph of the Sir, I would request YGur attention elector which shall be taken at the to the words- expense of the Government; and 13427 Discussion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Photographs of 13428 Voters of Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentary ConstituenC1l (d) bear the fassimile signature tary democracy depends upon free of the Electoral Registration and fair elections, for which two Officer: things are necessary. Firstly, those who have the ri2ht to vote should Provided that if the elector re- exercise their votes and those wno fuses or evades to have his photo- have no right cannot exercise that graph taken, no such identity card right. shall be prepared for the elector Now, four things are stated in the and a note of such refusal of latest Press note of the Electoral Re- evasion shall be made in the copy gistration Officer. Firstly, it is a of the electoral roll maintained clear admission that a large number by the Electoral Registration of eligible voters have not been photo- Officer." graphed. Secondly, of those photo- graphed, many have not been sup- Thesl! rules were drafted in a state of plied identity cards due to the absen- complacency hoping that this parti- ce of owners from their houses. cular machinery will be able to Thirdly, many photographs have photograph all those persons but un- proved unsuccessful and such voters fortunately those people have not will have to get themselves photo- been photographed. We believe in a graphed again. Fourthly,-it is very parliamentary democracy and if in a important-it says that every endea- constituency where 3,41,933 voters vour, as far as practicable, be exist about 126,000 are deprived of made to issue identity cards to*ill voters their votes, what is the fate of this before the 1st May, 1960. election? What are the minimum re- quirements of a man in this country, In this press note the Commissioner or in any other country? He wants has said that as far as practicable two hot meals one house to live, a photographs will be supplied to all wife and a vote. I do not stand for the voters. That means, if it is' not any postponement. Even the elec- practicable, thousands of voters will toral roll has not been supplied to not get their protographs. In other the candidatps. On 25th April, the words, when this was released on working or the taking of photograph 17th April, the Election Commissioner Is not over, how can the election has admitted that it is not practica- take place on May 1st? Will it con- ble for 'all the voters to get photo- tinue till the 1st of May when polling graphs, without which t ~ would 81so will be held? These 126,000 not be entitled to vote. voters do not want postponement but Then, in respect of those who have they should be given the right to already been supplied photographs, vote. I hope this Government which he says, because the photos are believes in democratic principles will meant for identity if the photos are upold the democratic principles and not clear-he has himself admitted institutions will allow these people that some of the photoeraphs Gre who are without identity cards and bad-they will have to be photo- photographs to vote. Otherwise, graphed again, election will be a farce. I do not say anything with a political motive. Now, the first thing that 8 This will happen in my Kanpur con- candidate standing for election will stituency after two years or in other require is a voters' list, a lim of those constituencies. These are the few who are eligible to vote from his questions that I have to pose. constituency so that he may approach them. According to the ShrJ. A. K. Gopalan (Kasargod): figures given here, even though Sir, I will touch upon the points al- 2,000 or 3,000 voters have been given ready touched upon by the previous photographs, till the 1st of May the speaker. The future of parliamen- candidate will not know who are 13439 1)iaCUIl.Uon re: \PRlL 22, 1960 Photographs of 13430 Voters of Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentary Comtituency [Shri A. K. Gopalan] I photos and n'umbers. This is a senti- his voters. Without knowlne. who mental objection. Can an election be .the voters are, what can a cand;date 'conducted under such circumstances? do'r Whom can he approach. ~ you simply say that some people 10 Apart from this sentimental objec- Calcutta will be eligible to vote and tion, people are not so very conscious others will not be eligible, .whom that they must do everything tht'm- can the candidate approach tIll the selves in order to e er i~e their fran- 1st of May.' The candidate will not chise, they must get themsel-o-es photo- be able to understand. who t ~ real graphs so that they may be 'able to voters are, without which he will not exerc'se their franchise. When they. be able to approach them and rt:- are not so very conscious, by intro- quest them to vote for him or ~e ducing this system now you will make them why they should vote for him. thousands of people not to exercise According to the Reprellentation of their right to vote. the People Act the candidates stand- Therefore my suggestion is this. As ing for election are entitled to havt' far as 1st May is concerned, ,he at least a vo'ers' list. We had an Election Commissioner has said that election in Kerala some two months it will not be pract'cable to supply back. What was done there? A all the voters with photographs. fixed time was ·given. It was "p••. Under such circumstances, if the Gov- that within a month if there was ernment want to conduct the elec ions any kind of impersonation or any- on the 1st of May itself, they can do thing of that sort the other party, so under the old system of election.>. the affected party can bring such As far as possible not a single man eases before the polling officer. If the should be denied his right to vote persons concerned do not a e~r because of the new system. Here, if before the polling officer then he \11111 you adopt ·his system, thousands of say that those persons have no right people will not be able to vote. There- to vote. That was -the reaSOn why it fore, postpone the date. Enlist the co- was found that in some constituen- operation of all part!es and get the cies 3 000 to 5,000 voters were found voters' list ready. In this new to be ~ot real voters and election peti- system of having photographs is to be tions have. been filed in such cases. in'roduced, then give enough time, so Here is a new system of giving that with the co-operation of all photographs to voters. This sys'em is rrarties, with the co-operation of the being introduced for the first time. If people standing for election and the by this system the real voters do not general public, explaining to them lose their right to vote we have that it is necessary to have the elec- nothing to say against.it. What does tions conducted under the new system, the Election Commissioner say? He you can have the elections conducted says that he cannot guarantee whether in the proper way. Otherwise, you all those who are eligible voters will will be conducting elections under be given their photographs. If they conditions where the parties concern- do not have their photographs they ed and the people seeking elec'ion will not be eligible to vote. He has will not know who the voters are. said that he will try to see that all It is also said that some photographs of them get their photographs. are hurriedly taken. I do not accuse the photographers because they are There is another thing that I would taking the photographs hurriedly. In like to bring to your notice. Some fact, in some places, if thege photo- people, the upper middle class eo~ e graphs are taken so hurriedly. the and others do not like to stand lIke photograph will not be in the form of a convict with a photo and number. a man or woman but just something Many women have said that they like an animal sometimes I will not stand like convicts with their 13431 Disc1Usion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) Photographs 01 13432 Voters 01 Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentary Constituency Again, it may be noted how these see th'at, with the new system of things are carried out. Once an ex- voting, so many voters do not lose judge went to the voter and asked the their voting rights. woman voter not to stand in such Shri Aurobindo Ghosal (Uluberia): and such a manner but to stand in Sir, I come from an indU.:itrial area the manner he advised her to dO. just opposite to the constituency in "Uo niH stand like this" and so on, ques ion. I do not know if these he saId. The voters do not like such photographs will be introduced in my thmgs and they naturally question, area also. The practical difficulty "Axe we convicts to stand like that will be 50 per cent of the voters will with the numbers and the photographs be scared away, not because th'at they like that?" So, the sentimental ob- arc;! og~ voters but because they jection is there. Some say that are workers. I say this because there they do not want to have the photo- are inherent difficulties. The proper graphs taken like that, So, unless atmosphere is not there, nor any edu- and until we educate the voters ana cation has been given to them in these get their co-operation and are able matters. No previous training has to take photographs of the voters who been given to them so that they can have the right to vote, it is no use come forward and cast their votes. hurrying up with such measures. The first difficulty lies in the a~ter Now, you want to have the elections of time. These workers are engaged today, when the candidates themselves from morning till evening in the mill. do not know who the voters are! I and factories, and it is not po.isible do not understand whether it can bl'! for them to spare the time to come called a free and fair election. Accord- and give Lheir photographs. Secondly, ing '.0 the Election Commission and these workers are not very conscious the electoral officers, it is clear that of their rights. We have seen that as far as practicable every endeavour in village areas the percentage 01 will be made to get the photographs polling i.> higher than in the working in time. But whatever endeavours class areas, because we have to per- have been made the people do not suade the workers to come and like the methods. This is an unfortu- vote. Not only we but all nate si'uation. All endeavours have the candidates, to whatever party not been very fruitful though" there they may belong, have to persuade haVe been some results. tne workers and arrange fOr them to let leaVe from the companies or fac- So, my request in the first place is, tories in which they are employed. postpone the elections by three So, all these difficulties are there months. Request for the co-operation which haVe to be faced in persuading of the people. The Communist Par'y the workers to come and have the is ready to co-operate. You must tell photographs and then to bring to the the people that such and such things vo,ing place. But in the village areas, "are to be done, and tell them that the voters come in large numbers to cast their votes. Naturally, there is the photographs are taken to ge~ the co-operation of the people in all possi- an indifference on the part of work- ing dasses to come as voters ond ble ways for the success of the cast their votes. This is one im- electlOn. The authorities must see portant factor which has to be consi- that the photographs are taken and dered. They will be scared away if distributed properly and that photographers are insisted upon. not a single man who is in the voters' 11st and who has the righ· to The next point is one of huge vote loses his right of vote in the wastage of money. The wastage re- election, Therefore, I would say, sults in this way. Most of the either have the election On the 1st of workers change their place of work; May. without the photographs or post- they go from place to place frequen- pone it at least for three months, and tly, and every time, since they chan,_ 13433 Discussion re: APRIL 22, 1960 Photographs of 13434 Voters of CaLcutta South-West Parlia- mentarll Constituencll [Shri Aurobindo Ghosal] their areas, if the photographs are to Shri A. K. Gopalan: He can vote. be taken and adjusted with ano~ er Mr. Speaker: In the same election constituency, then it will be difficult he can vote once or cannot vote; he for all concerned, and this will result cannot vote twice. in huge wastage of money for Gov- ernment also. These photographs Shri A. K. Gopalan: As a right he will be of no use after the concerned rannot vote but he does. voters change their place of work, and join a mill Or factory in anotner Mr. Speaker: Possib:y, what they constituency. do is they withhold the photogl'aphs Of course, the only point that is and subsequently substitute them. When once a man is photographed being stated on behalf of Government with that photograph he can vo.e onJ.y is that they will be able to stop bogus voting. But even now I can tell the once. House that nobody is going with Shri S. M. Banerjee: I will explain photographer to identify the voters. it in half a minute. I am S. M. For instance, if I take out my photo- Banerjee and I am a voter. When an graph, say, as one Sushil Bose who enqulry was made, S. M. Banerjee was is a voter it is impossible from the not in his house. In Calcutta there photograph to know that I am the re'al being so many slum areas, it is possible person. Therefore, in any case, you that there are 20 people with the are not going to achieve .... name S. M. Banerjee. Mr. Speaker: Let me put one ques- tion. Every adult is entitled to one Mr. Speaker: If S. M. Banerjee is vote. So,·there is no necessity for any not there and some other man is there, person to impersonate some other man that man has a.so eat his own vote. who is alive, because that man who 8hri 8. M. Banerjee: Suppose there is alive has his own vote. Then, is one Sushil Mohan Banerjee in the there cannot be two photographs of place of Satyendra Mohan aner ~ the same person. I can unders'and a that is, S. M. Banerjee. He ioes to dead man being impersonated, be- the photographer and takes a photo- cause the dead man has no vote. Hut graph of himself. He goes to the a living man need not be imperson- polling station and casts his vote as ated, before that man has also his S. M. Banerjee. But the real vote is own vote. I am not able to unJer- not of S. M. Banerjee at all. Who is stand it. 10 check it? The total number of Shri.A. K. Gopalan: The photo- votes may not increase. grapher goes to various places and takes photos. Before taking photo one Mr. Speaker: That is all right. Who- has to produce some receivt of tax or ever impersonates S. M. Banerjee, he something. A person gets all thp.se has his own vote. Why should he take papers from somebody and gets h:m- the other man's vote? By his own self photographed. 'l'hen he .roel to right he has got a vote. another place and there also he gets himself photographed. He can do it Shri A. K. GopaJan: It -may be any- in three or four places. body. If there are one lakh of veters how are you going to check it? Mr. Speaker: Is this corporation el- ection? In these elections there i! Mr. Speaker: That is right. adu!t franchise, is it not so? Nil pro- perty qualification is necessary. A man Shri Aurobindo Ghosal:. Then, the who goes there must correspond to whole area of West Bengal is not the photo that he carries with him. being photographed, ony the urban Today a man cannot vote in two and industrial areas are photographed. places. If the whole State is going to be! 13435 DiBC1&Ssion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 (SAKA) PhotogTaphs 0/ 13436 Voters 01 Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentarv Constituency photographed, then there is less chance It was decided to bring in the heal- of impersona.ion. thy practice of photographing Lh.! voters, particularly in the city of Cal- Shri Manaen (Darjeeling): Is LIDS in cutta and other urban areas probably order to avoid proxy? later on, because of a very unhealthy practice that was being gone in oY-I Shri AurobiDdo Ghosal: If the whole do not m!:!njon any particular politi- election is held on a single day, it is ,cal party-political parties as such, dlttkult to have bogus voung. rra~ing namely, the system of proxy and Qe- pno.ograph is not me proper way or cause large numbers of persons who checlOng bogus voting. were not actual voters used to im- personate others. Why did this hap- Lastly, I want to point out that in pen particular.y in the city of Cal- the South West CalcuLta cons;ituency cu.ta is because of the fact that there suttic!ent time was not given to the is a large population which comes in VOLers to come forward for their pho- and goes from Calcutta daily, that is, tographs. Also, the parties were not the floating population. Therefore it taKen lOLO confidence so that Lhey can becomes easy to do this kind of im- also propagate Wha.ever is good In tne personation when votini takes place. sys.em to the voters in order LO per- This is an acknowledged fact. It was Iluade them .0 go to take their lJho.o- because of this that this House de- grapns. We must remember that Ul cided to bring in a law by which these areas there are some con::;el'Vl:lLlVe this taking of photographs in Clues families. I may tell you quite frankly like Calcutta became possible and the thaL my granWDother wLI not agr~e notificatiOn was made on the basis of to get her photographed, whatever may a law passed by this Parliament. be .he importance of the .l(;CUSlon. That is the background. That i.s a practical difficulty. 'fhis cannot be removed in one day or soon unless We systematically and pcr.. isten- It is true that this could not have L.y propagate the advantage::; of this been liked by many persons. Again, system. I do not want anyone to think that I am mentioning any particular party. In a nutshell I would like to point But it was certainly not liked by thl1se out .0 the hon. Deputy MinLSter ,of who are used to this system of Law that there is a major portion, I impersonating votes and allowing it to would say 25 per cent. 01 the voters happen. It is true that out of 3,41,000 that consists of bogus voters. In no voters who have been found to be constituency in India there are so genuine voters, photographs of over a many bogus voters. Therefore I lakh are not quite ready. At least would request the hon. Mirdster to that is what I understood from the see either by postponing the cd Speaker, Sir, my hon. friend, Shri to be photographed but for the hours Banerjee, made a very elOQuent speech at which the photographers went ~o doubt, it sounds very bad if one round. I understand that t ~ phot?" says that this is a method by whiC'h graphers go round from 7 0 clock In so many peop e are sought to be de- the morning so as to get those people franchised. But what actually are the who went out to work. It all went on facts? Let us sift the facts. properly for some time, that is, from 13437 Dia.:ussion re: APRIL 22, 1960 Photographs of 13438 Vote-rs of Catcu.tta South-West Partia- mentarv Constituencll [Shrimati Renuka Ray] the 21st JWle to the middle of AUiust. which some people would like, of The photographying went on and course, not having photographs at all-- there was no hitch Wltil this time. Or delay it. I think the best judgt: AfLerwards, what happened ...... will be the Election Commission who Sbrimati Beau Cbakravartt7 are noted for their objectivity and (Basirhat): How many have bt:en who, as 1 said, have established a re- photographed? pul.ation of which we are indeed very proud. And all that I would ask of Shrimati Beallka Ra7: Over 1,50,000 the Members who have spoken, as well people could be photographed by ;;hen. as of this House in genera., is that we That itself shows that it could have leave it to that Election Commission. been possible had people not e~ Let the Election Commission decide, dissuaded from it. I listened to Shri as they have done in the past, and as Gopalan's speech. With all deference they have done fairly and freely and to him I would say that so far as tile courageously; and they will not bow women of the city of Calcutta are down to any Government or to any concerned, they are not the women po.!itical party's whims or fancies. who would not come forward to be photographed. That is not correct. With these worda I would again They are not that type of women who stress that it is easy enough to use would fight shy of being pbotograph- high-sounding phrases and say te.at ed. People who live in the city of this disenfranchisement is being done Calcutta are not of that type. Again, because the system of photographs is I do not want to impute any motives being brought in. I think that for a to anyone in particular, but it is city like Calcutta, where many mal- rather strange-and it is a fact-that practices have taken place in the past, since the beginning how it was that it is a very good system that is being although the photographers went brought in so that each man who is a rOWld and continued to go round so voter will be known as a vot.er and he many people were not photographed, alone or she alone will lie able to vote why it was that this delay took .,lace in future. later on, and who was behind this move. by which it was possible to come Witb these words I again submit, to a position now that so many per- let the Electlon Commission be the sons have not been photographed and judge. And 1 think that this country therefore there is a likelihood oJf their as a whole and the world at large will being disenfranchised. certainly agree that the Election I Wlderstand from the hon. Minister's Commission will not do anything that statement that every attempt is being is unjust and unfair to disenfranchise made now to see that their photo. anyone. graphs are taken in time. Mr. Speaker: Shri Yadav Narain I would submit that the Election Jadhav. Each Member will take two Commission in our country has a very minutes. good record, a Jlery great reputation, a reputation which is internatiollai. Shri Yadav Narain Jadhav (Male- Other countries come to learn at the gaon): I have very good facts and I feet of our Election Commission as to may be given more time. how to hold free and fair elections. Therefore, I would leave this point not Mr. Speaker: The Minister has to to the Government, nor to any party, reply. but to the Election Commission. If they feel that the conditions ilI'e such Shri Yadav NaraID Jadhav: The De- that a free and fair election can be fence Minister was speaking up to 5- held, then, I think we should not ask 20, and one hour has been al.o:ted for them either to scrap this system- this. I 343"9 Discussion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 ~ PhotogTaphs of 13440 VoteTS 01 Calcutta South-West PaTlia- menta", Constituency Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members have their own sense of time: Before 5- gm ~ ~ mt"f ~ 'flIT ~ ? ~ 15 he finished. He finished at 5--10, I ~~~ ~~~~ find. ~ ~ ~ it; ~~t t~~ ~ r ~ I ~~ ~ t~ 11.11') rmor..-mtfClf ~ ~ ;;it Cfil+f gm ~ t ~~ IR'A m ~ ~ ~ ~ r lt1: ~ ~ ~ fit; lfiir.r ~ 13 ~ ~ qjTit ~ ~ P,ift ~ 0 ~ 0 il"nrT it ~ t ij'J"lf.t if ~ iJ"Il I ~ ~ t ~ ~ ~ re ~ ~ ~ ~t i ~~~ ~ t ~ ~ ~ CflrT mt, ~ eft i I ~~i ~ iti~ t~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ll" ~ ~ ~~t i ~it~~i ~ ~ fit; ~ 1Il ;mr ~ ~ fit; ~ ~ ~ lT ~rr ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~r r ~ ~~ ifi\ ifiT1J ~ rrr ~ q: ~ ~~ ~ ~ I t rma- t ~ ~ ij' ~ qiti't ~ if Cilcd ~~ ~~~ i ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~ ~ i '1T \9 ~ ~ 0 if'iT Cfifi 9,:(R ¥ i ~ ~ , ~ crifi, ~ ~ ~ ~ <€t q') Rot re ~ tfTif;;r ;r 'sfT ~ if lRI{ qitit t t ~ it ~~~ ~ ~ rfi t I ~ U ~ ij' ~ ~i if ~ ...,. if i>lT \"1m iIfiU1r 4 ~ ~~ t qiti't ~ ;pl I ~ ~ it; ~ i>lT UlI'"lf ttifi ~ ~ ~ ,\if ':{" it; m- ~ iifir ij' q: Ifil1f ~~ ~ qititWiffi fliT ~ it; mt ""R 13441 Discussion re: APRIL 22, 1960 Photographs of 13443 Voters oj CaLcutta South-West Parlia- mentarll Constituenctl ['Sit 1fTW ..n:r: or :;n1TCr] ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ given notice earlier. Anyhow, Shri- I f>m !fiifte- matI .kenu Chakravartty comes from ~tr it q r~ ii it; fu'q ,;;r.r ~ ~enga ana, tnerelore, 1 sbail allow ~~~it ~ t~r n~~ her. She had not ~ en me Dunce earlier. ~~ ifiifi'latt.m it; ftw. eft ~ . IShrimati Kenu Cbakravartt7: I am ltmflf ~ ~ ~ ~ it; ~ I qITit sorry. We have raIsed tnls matter not ~ 'fiT ~~ ~~i i if ~ at llH trOD! Ii pkt'uSiln pOlut oJ: vIeW'. ~it ~ ~~ r ~it Therelore,' 1 was a little pamed when uue 01 my SIS Len> U'leQ m an manect ~ ~ Wfi'm ~ ~ it; ~ ~ Shrimati Renuka Ray: I said. leave I would also like to point out that it to the ElectlOn Commission which the onus of giving these cards rests has a good repu.ation. My hon. friend upon Government subject to two con- may please realise what I said. ditions. One of them is that Govern- ment have to prove that the pelson Shrimali Renu Chakravartty: There- who is being disqualified has evadecd fore. my point is that we from this or has refused to Lake the card. Now. House may make our recommen- on the very basis of the seven thousand dation known to the country and also cards which remain undelivere1 1'.1 to the Election Commission. people who have been photographed, according to the idea of the MmiHtry The point has been raised that it itself, they are of persons who have was thIS House that had passed that 'been photographed, and, therefore, Act and that photograph provision. It they are not bogus voters. Thel (,fore, is true that we have passed it and this these seven thousand persons aloe T."" House is supreme. 11 the House finds bogus voters; nor have they refus('n that someLhing has gone wrong with to take their photographs. Therefore, what it had enacted. I think it is but how can you say, even On the t ~ proper that we have to reconsider it. of these 7,000 that remain undelivered that thcy have refused and they llav'! Even according to the law that we evaded. Sir, you do not know how have passed.-l would give this muc.h this is done. This is a peculiar method. credit to the Law Mmlstry-we have We have to stand with a sort of sa!d that an identity card may be given wooden thing in our hand io it~ WIth Or wi,hout pho,ographs. because the number of the voter is marked the framers seem to have had in tlU,ir just like criminals. We have to stand mind that there may come about cir- like that and thc picture is ia:ten. cumstances when it may not be pC·";J- After having done that, those ;>eople b.e to photograph everybody. When have to get these cards from photo- that is the provision. if today we 11nci. graphers and the Government hilS to that a larie number of people have go from house to house. not been photographed. I think it is myself, 3 days ago, carried out • only right that the hon. Minister and r thIS House must express their opini.)!1 house to house campaiJ;m of 40 houseR. that in the circumstances of the par-i· r went to one of the middle class areas in the Bhiwanipur constituency. cular by-election where almost 25 Ver School Row, Deban Mukherjee Road. cent. of the electorate is beine; dis- Harish Mukherjee Road, Kalighat qualified. the onus or the respon- Road and those areas. What is the pict- sibility will have to rest upon Govern- ure there? Out of the 40 houses, there ment and they would have to allow were three houses where they said the voters to come with identity cards that they had received all the photo- without photographs. That is one of graphs. There was one house in which the suggestions that I would make there was a respectable businessman for this particular by-election. of that area, who, as Shri Aurobindo Ghosal said belongs to one of the oltj Another point that I would like to families of' Calcutta who are fairly raise is this. No rules have been fram- conservative. He said: "Shall I allow ed in '£he case of identity cards with- my womenfolk to be photographed by out photographs. Actually. there should have been rules to cover tlu.'Sc some strutting young man who comes and says, 'I am a photographer and cases also. But our executive has r am going to take the photographs not thought it proper at all to con- ot your women'?" He said, 'Nothinl sider thii question as to what the 13445 Dilcuuicm re: APRIL 22, 1960 PhotogTaphs of 13446 VotS7'S of CaLcutta South-West PaTHa- mentaTlI Constituencll [Shrimati Renu Chakravartty] doing; I will never allow it. I showed Mr. Speaker: There is no meaning; him the way out. I have taken my pho- they cannot use the photographs. tograph; but I cannot allow my women Shrimati ReDu Chakravartty: They to be photographed.' But, our Law Lannot use the photographs. J. ..:arl tdl Minister says that women photograph- you Ii different case-of dead ote~ ers are available. But that old gentle- We have found one or two cases man said, 'No woman photographer where, actually, people have photo- has come here.' graphed themselves as somebodY" E:be. I do not oppose this photograph un After that I found that, in about J:> principle; it may reduce impersuna,· houses, if 5 had been photogra.phed, 3 ion. Many peopde have asked us. have not been photogl'aphed because 'Why were· you so late in raising trus when the photographer came all ot objection?' Because, on princ.ple, 1 them were not available, altnough nly thought it was a good thing. But, hon. friend &hrimati .R.enuka rlay saylS when I find that some 25 per Ctmt. that the photographers are au tnt r~ of the electorate has been disenfran- from 7 A.M. to 7 P.M. There 'will be chised, then, I think it is t.ime that fll1' houses in which after 10 o'clock people this election at least you must Take my own case. I have pro- Shri Warior (Trichur): Even those vided myself with an identity card, cards are lost by hon. Members often. because I am otherwise stopped by the sentry when I go to my office in Shri Dajarnav!s: As yOU have right- the North Block. I have myself been ly observed, though the right to VII"- i34S7 biscwrion re: Al?RlL 22, 1960 Photographs of l34S8 Voters of Calcutta' South-West Parlia- mentary Constituency [Shri Hajarnavis] is guaranteed to every adult pE'rson Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I find Under the Constitution, in preparing it very difficult to carryon. Two the rolls certain mistakes are bound hon. lady MembE!rs, one from each to occur. After all, you cannot in- side, have taken possession of the clude every possible voter. Th(· House. . .. (Interruption). There is Electoral Registration Officer Or his enough lobbying. assistants go, make an enquiry from one of the· persons in the house and Shri A. K. Gopalan: May I havc a take down the names. Therefore it clarification? Today is the 22nd of cannot be claimed that he has com- April and on the 1st May election!: plied with the strict letter of the law will be conducted. Will the candi- in seeing that every person is enrol- dates get a list of voters who are eligi- led. So far as the elt!ctoral roll is ble for voting? When will they get concerned, if you ask even the Elec- it? If they will not get it, will the tion Commission it will say, "Wc dgents of the candidates get a list have prepared the roll which is cor- 'In the 1st May showing eligible and rect as far as practicable". That con-eligible candidates? does not show that the method ha5 failed. That only shows how con- Mr. Speaker: Are there not e e~ scientious they are in discharging toral rolls already? their duty. I hope we have taken all possible steps. Now if attempt; Shri Sadhan Gopta: They do not are being made long after the elef'- show as to who have been photo- tions are advertised, long after tht? graphed. photographing has begun .... Shri A. K. Gopalan: And who havc Shrimati Reno Chakravartty: What not been photographed. about delivering photographs that have been prepared? . Shri Bajamavis: I am informed that copies of the electoral rolls are Shri Bajarnavis: .. , .long after the supplied to the various parties. That nominations have been filed, then I is usually done by the Election C01l'- submit that it does appear that t er~ mission. They are also made avall- is some.... (Interruption). ~ e to the various individuals. An ~ Member.: May I have a Shri A. K. Gopalan: You do n:>t clarification? follow my question. My question is about the photographs. Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I am afraid we are fighting the e e tion~ Shri Bajamavis: I follow it. He here. may please sit dawn. I will answer his question. Shri Bajamavis: .... there is o ~ object other than finding an o e~ Shri Rameshwar Tantia (Sikar): I tion ... , (Interruption). ('annot understand why there should bE so much fuss and why they are Shrtmati Reno Chakravartty: FOl'r se much afraid of the photographs. months ago photographs of ~o haye been taken.... nterr t~on Shri Bajamavls: As soon as a Even those have not been dellver- photograph i~ taken and an i enti~ ed. . .. (Interruption). card is issued, a mark is made to Shrl Hajamavis: ... .' there i~ o~e show that that particular voter ~ object other than finding an o ~e t on been issued an identity card. TIm to the. method which the ParlIament process is going on till the very a~t itself has approved. .. . (Interrup- But if my hon. friend tells me that in a constituency which has 3,40,000 tion). 13459 Discussion re: VAISAKHA 2, 1882 ~ Photograpfl.s of 13460 Voters of Calcutta Sou:h-West Parlia- mentary Constituency voters there is going to be an indivi- kind of identity that I wanted in the dual approach from voter to voter place of the other identity; this has then it is $n election which.... ' !lot been produced; therefore, laIn Shri A. K. Gopa1an: My question i.; not going to allow you to vote". ~ot that. Please answer the ques- All that Shri Gopalan wants to t.on. If you cannot answer it, ea~e say so. My question is whethEr know is whether there is a basic there will be a list. Generally, that voters' list where, according to the registering officer, the names of all is the system. We also know e!igible persons on account of resi- t?at generally there will be a voters' dential and other qualifications an~ hst which will be used on the polling there. If that is there, the further da.y showing the voters who will ~ qt:estion whether a list has bel'n eligible for voting. Suppose I am a prepared of those that have identity candidate. I must tell the agent who c;ards or whether they have been ar.e the voters. So according to thi!':, photographed or not may not be Will there be any mark there in the necessary, for the reason that it they voters' list showing that a particuhr f.re brought there, without an ider.-- r.1an has not been given a photograp'1 tity card they won't come there. So and so is not eligible to vote? OJ' he wants to know if at least tre (Jlse, how can we know as to who ':Jasic electoral roll is there or not. are the eligible voters? Mr. Speaker: What the hon. Mem- Shri Sadhan Gupta: Sir, that is n~t ber wants to know is this. The the question. polling officers must have voters' list3 with them. There may be some PCI'- Mr. Speaker: I understand the sons who belong to Pakistan or tl' oiher question. some other country who are o o ~ ners and who may all look like Shri Sadhan Gupta: Unless the Indians. If they go there, the::: candidates have the marked list .... names must be there in the voters' Ust. Is there a voters' list con taill- Mr. Speaker: Not necessary. The ing the names of all voters? Second- candidate would be only put to some ly, dQ they have an identity card? more trouble taking a number of per- Thirdly, do they have a photograpl-}? sons without an identity Card. If at least the voters' lists are there An Bon. Member: That is the diffl.- according to the old practice, in res- pect of any person who does not C'ulty. have an identity card the polling Mr. Speaker: There is no diffi- Officer might say, "Without an identity card I am not going to take it". Be- culty. .cause, even according to the previou,; Shri Sadhan Gupta: He will have practice the voters' names may be to approach 40 per cent. persons there; there may be some patel or patwari sitting there to identify the more. man. Therefore, mere existence of Mr. Speaker: What if it is so? It the voters' list is not enough sO long dces not go into the root of the a~ the man is not identified. Tre matter. identity' card and the photograph serve the purpose of the identity Shri Sadhan Gupta: There are cer- Officers at the polling station. tain houses .... But, independently, there must be Mr. Speaker:, The point is this. !t a voters' list with -the names of all s('ems to be clear that there is a baSiC these persons. If those persons do electoral list. Then the only diffi- not have identity cards, it is open to culty before an hon. Member will be, the officer there to say t ~ is the 13461 Discussion re: APRIL 22, 1960 Photographs of 13462- Voters of Calcutta South-West Parlia- mentary Constituency [Mr. Speaker] "Am I to take all these people even So long as there is an electoral though they have not got the identity roll in which the names are there, (."8rds with them?" Before they are ~ e further things like the identity taken, if by themselves they go to card and the photograph are only the the polling station, they will have to substitutes of those other persons who tharri!: themselves if they have not got stand there physically to identify theo the identity card; they will have tu voter. go and come back. If a candidatt' tlikes him, in his own house also he The House will nOw stand adjourn- can ask him whether there is an ed till 11 A.M. on Monday. the 25th. identity card with him. There won't be any trouble. If, in spite of that, 18.39 hrs. the candidate thinks of persuading the polling officer and takes this man The Lok Sabha then ad';ourned till without an identity card, he will bear Eleven of the CLock on Monday. the all the expense and trouble of taking 25th Apf"il, 1960/Vaisakha 5, 1882 him. (Saka). DAILY DIGEST [Friday, April 22, 1960/Vaisak"a, 2, 1882 (Saka)] ORAL ANSWERS TO WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 13167 -13200 QUESTIONS-contd. S.Q. Subject COLUMNS No. S.Q. Subject COLUJ4RB No. 1639 Oil survey in U. P. 13167-70 1663 Puppet shows 13205-1>6 1640 Import Licences to Bombay firms 13170 1664 Manufacture of dril- 1641 Assessment Com- ling equipmeI!t mittee on Higher education 13170-73 U.S.Q. 1642 Indian Museum, No. Calcutta .. 13173-76 2417 Foreign tourists 13206-07 1643 Small blast fumace, Barbil 13176-79 2418 State buses in the 1644 Joint o n i ~ in Andamans 13207 Central Secreta- 2419 Medium term loans 13207 riat 13179-81 2420 Learning of Hindi . Contour Topogra- 13208 phical Maps 13181-83 2421 Students' delegation P. L. 480 13183-86 to Australia I3208-OQ Carbonisation Plant 2422 Propogation of in Andhra Pradesh . 13186-88 Sanskrit in U.P. Hindi University 2423 Archaeological Sur- for South vey of U.P. 13209"-10 1649 Flag of Political 2424 Cultural Grants to Party 13191-93 U. P. Organisati01ll 1321o-II 1650 Export of Steel 13193-95 2425 Welfare Extension 1651 Coal washery 13195-06 Projects in Punjab 132II 1652 Sikkim' raffle ~ 13196-98 2426 Pardons and Re- missions 132II-I% 1653 National Book Trust 13198-200 2427 Central taxes in Delhi 13212 2428 Hall-cum-auditoriums WRITTEN ANSWERS in Punjab 13212-13 TO QUESTIONS 13200-45 2429 Education of Girls in S.Q. Jammu and Kashmir 13213-14 No. 2430 Merit-cum-means scholarships in An- Post Matrie Scho- dhra Pradesh larships to Scheduled 2431 Theatre at Hyder- caste students in Ke- abad 13215 rala 13200-01 2432 Playgrounds in An- Wind Power 13201 dhra Pradesh 13215-16 Criteria for deter- 2433 Social Welfare Ex- mining Backwardness 13201-1>2 tension Projects in Telugu Novel- Andhra Pradesh 13216 'Narayana Rao' 13202 2434 Agricultural colonies Delhi Municipal for S. C. and S. T. 13216-17 Corporation 2435 Report of coal price Central Pay Com- revision committee 13217 mittees'Report on t ent~ from the Armed Forces Laccadive 1660 Geographical school 2437 Commonwealth Sc- Atlas 13204 holarships and 1661 Counterfeit curren- Fellowships cy Dotes 1 3204-1>S Delhi State central 1662 Royalty on Minerals 13ZOS cooperative stores I3Z19 [DAILY DICEST] WRITTEN ANSWERS TO WRITTEN ANSWERS TO ~ t ~ont U.S.Q. Subject COLUMNS U.S.Q. Subject COLUMNS No. No. Income-tax Assess- 2439 Service co-opera- ment IJ235-36 tives in Canton- ments Post-graduate course in Journalism 13236 2440 Free and compul- sory primary edu- 2470 Houses __ constructed cation 13220 for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes 2441 Income-tax arrears 13220 in Kerala 13236-37 2442 Aundha Nagnath 2471 Raid by Pakistani temple 13221 outlaws . 13237 2443 Ellora caves 13221 Stabbing cases in 2444 Chiottorgarh fort 13221 Delhi 2445 Ajanta caves 13222 2473 Christian Literary 2446 Mining in Punjab 13222 Association 13238 2474 Opium 2447 Suicides from Ku- 13238-39 tab Minar 13222-23 2475 Zonal Council of 2448 Ex-servicemen ,13223 H.P. 2476 School of Indian Lan- 2449 Naval Mutiny 13224 guages in Delhi Uni- 2450 Oil strikes 1:224 versity 2451 Indian students in 2477 Allotment of soft coke U.S.A. and hard coke to 2452 UNEF Punjab 2453 Unauthorised cons- 2478 Preventive Detention tructions in Delhi . 13225-26 2479 Tomb of Abul Fa7.a1 2454 Paym'nts made in near Agra Indian Rupees 13226-27 2480 Restricted Govern- 2455 Visas for Indian ment Holidays students to study Iron monuments Chinese Language 2 132 7 Himalaya Bank Ltd., 2456 Consumption of Kangra . steel 13227-28 Cars and Taxis 2457 Production of Mica in Andhra Pradesh 13228 S.C. and S.T. Com- missioner's visit to Steel Re-rolling Punjab 132 43 mills in Andhra Pradesh S.C. and S.T. Com- missioner's visit to 2459 Banaras Hindu Bombay 13244 University 13229 2486 Untouchability (off- Entry permits to ences) Act 132 44 Nicobars 13230 Welfare of S.C. and Estate duty 13230-31 S.T. in Jammu and Secretaries etc. in Kashmir. Central Government 13231-32 Consumption of pet- PAPERS LAID ON THE rol, kerosene and TABLE diesel oil 13232 (I) A copy of the Madhya Strike by the State Pradesh Bhudan Yogna Bank Employees 13232-33 Board (Reconstitution) Tribal Welfare Cen- Order, 1960 published tres in Madhya Pra- in Notification No. G. S.R. 345 dated the 26th desh 13233 March, 1960, under 2466 Iron sheets supplied sub-section (5) of l3ection to Andhra Pradesh . 4 of the Inter-State 3467 Income-tax depart- Corporations Act. ment 19S7· [DAILY t)IGEST] COLlTMNS PAPERS LAID ON 'fHE REPORT OP BUSINESS TABLE--contd. ADVISORY COMMIT- TEE ADOPTED 13252-55 (2) A copy of each of the following Notifications Fifty-first Report was under . sub-section (4) adopted. of SectIon 43B of the Sea Customs Act, 1878 RESOLUTION ADOPTED 13255-95 and Section 38 of the Central Excises and The Minister of Railways Salt Act, 1944, making (Shri Jagjivan Ram) certain further amend- moved the Resolution ments to the Customs re: Appointment of a and Central Excise Committee to Review Duties ra a~ Rate of Dividend pay- (General) Rules, able by Railway Un- 1960 :- dertaking to General Revenues. Shri Jagjivan (i) G.S.R. 390 dated the Ram replied to the 9th April, 1960 • debate and the Resolu- tion was adopted. (m G.S.R. 391 dated the 9th April, 1960. I DEMANDS POR EXCESS (iii) G.S.R. 392 dated the GRANTS (RAILWAYS) 9th April, 1960. POR 1957-58 . • ~ Discussion on Demands REPORT OP PUBLIC for Excess Grants in ACCOUNTS COMMIT- respect of Railways co- TEE PRESENTED mmenced. The discu- ssion was not conclud- Twenty-eighth Report ed. was presented. REPORT OP COMMI- REPORT OPESTIMATES TTEE ON PRIVATE COMMITTEE PRES- MEMBERS' BILLS ENTED AND RESOLUTIONS ADOPTED 13324 Eighty-seventh Report Sixty-third Report was was presented. adopted.) ~ ATTENTION PRIVATE MEMBERS, 'TO MATTER OP UR- RESOLUTION NEGA- GENT PUBLIC IMPO- TIVED 13325-36 RTANCE Further discussion on the Resolution T6: Establish- Shri Premji R. Assar ment of various Defence called the attention of Councils concluded the Minister of Home and the Resolution was Affairs to the reported negatived. murder of a police officer in Delhi on April, II, 1960.· PRIVATE MEMBERS' The Minister of Home RESOLUTION WITH- Affairs (Shri G.B. pant) DRAWN 13336- 13420 made a statement in regard thereto. Shri A.M. Tariq moved the Resolution Te: Withdrawal of Kashmir 13251 Case from U.N.O. After BILL INTRODUCED discussion the Resolu- tion was withdrawn by The Reserve Bank of leave of Lok Sabha India (Amendment) Bill ~ COLUMNS AGENDA FOR MONDAY,' APRIL 25, 1960/VAI- DISCUSSION ON MAT- TER OF URGENT SAKHA 5, 1882 (SAKA)- PUBLIC IMPORTAN- CE Further discussion On Shri S.M. Banerjee raised Demands for Excess a discussion on the pho- tographs of Voters of Grants (Railways), Calcutta South-West 1957-58 and considera- Parliamentary Consti- tion and passing of the tuency. The Deputy Minister of Law (Shri Representation of the Hajamavis) replied to People (Amendment) the debate and the dis- cussion was concluded. Bill. GMGIPND-LS II -299 (AI) LS--9-S-6o-9S0•