1912 Personal Expla nation. [ASSEMBLY.] Kalgoorlie Tram way.

lLeff s Iat ibe ql0serntb p, obtain such information; and I have much pleasure, wyith your permission, in authorising Wednesday, 61h November, 1901. hin, to do so. I remain yours faithfully, F. a. FiRerE. CanConynd National[ Bank-Qeticsn Kai- grlio Trema onuy Sbidyfor Bridge In reply to that letter, I have received ove Riw-Qestio.- Police Benefit Rund t the following: - Rprt Anual -uestion: Poie Voc,Raila Pass eoestio.: Police Uniforms, how, ulie The National Bank of Australasia Limited, --Question: Boulder School, overcrowding- One. Perth, W.A., 6th Nov. 1901. tin: Ivanhoe Suburban School-Question: Rai. F. H. Piesse, Esq., Perth. Dear Sir, - I beg to acknowledge your letter of 6th inst., and shall be happy to afford the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly Adjomuent. any information he may require, as; to the Premier's allegation that you or your firm THE SPEAKER took the Chair at are or have been in any way connected with 4-30 O'clock, pin. the Karrawang syndicate. I may state that we have no information that would lead us to PRAYERS. believe or suspect that you or your firm have had any interest, direct or indirect as a member of the K urrawang syndicate. PERSONIAL EXPLANATION AS TO Yours faithfully, ALLEGED INTEREST. H. R. ENGLAND, Manager. KURRAWANG COMPANY AND NATIONA" [Applause by members of Opposition.] BANK. I may add that I have challenged the HoN. P. H. PlESSE (Williams) blln the Premier to ask the Speaker of Before the business of the day is pro- this House to obtain the information; ceeded with, I wish to make a personal and if the Premier does not take that explanation in reference to a statement course, I call upon him to apologise. made by the Premier, in the House last THE PREmMIR: You have not yet evening. In the course of his remarks, made the statement that you are not the Premier stated that he challenged the mixed up with it. member for the Williams to authorise HON. F. Hl. PIESSE: I deny that I him to make certain inquiries at the have bad anything to do with it. I do National Bank in Perth, as to who were not know who the company are, nor was the members of the Kurrawang syndicate. I ever offered any position in it, nor have I may say I am ready to accept that chat- I ever hail one jot of interest whatever in leuge. As a personal explanation, I will regard to the Kurrawang Company. now read to the House certain corre- (Applause by members of Opposition.] spondence which has passed to-day THE PREMrIER : Or with Mr. Timms? between myself and the manager of the [Laughter by Ministers.] National Bank. I wrote to the manger this letter : QUESTION - KALIGOORLIE TRAMWAY Dear Sit,-During the course of the debate COMPANY, SUBSIDY FOR BRIDGiE in the Legislative Assembly last night, the OVER RAILWAY. Premier (Mr. Leaks), in commenting upon the transactions of the Kurrawang syndicate, made Mn. H1OPKIN S asked the Minister for use of the following words:- Works: ;, Whether the representative of It is j ust as well for us at once to con- the Kalgoorlie Tramway Company bad sider who was in it, who represented made application to the Works Depart- the Kurrawang syndicate. 1 only wish ment for a cash subsidy of £65,000 welmknwwho was in it. I challenge the member for the Williams to authorise towards the erection of a tramway bridge me to make inquiries at the National over the railway on Boulder road. z, If Bank in Perth, who were the mem- so, whether the application was supported bers or who have been members during by any local governing body. 3, If so, the last seven monthsP which. 4, Whether the Minister had As by this statement Mr. Leaks endeavours aceceded to the request. 5, Whether any to implicate me, I will accept the challenge. I will be glad if you will afford the Speaker of further subsidies had been asked for by the Legislative Assembly the opportunity of the same person or company. 6, Whether making such inquiry As may be necessary to the Minister approved of subsidising Questione. Quoutione.(6NOVEMBER, 1901.]Qusis. Questions. 111913 tramway companies to run in opposition regulations to members of the police to the raiiways of the State. force are three weeks' annual leave, with Tun MINISTER FOR WORKS full pay. 2, No; except in the Railway replied: ir, No. z, No. 3, Answered by Department, where special arrangements XNo. 2. 4, Answered by No. 2. 5, NO. are made for railway employees on leave, 6, No, the Minister does not approve of and in the case of Public Works officials subsidising tramway companies to run in engaged in railway construction. opposition to the railways of the State- NOTE: -To elucidate the matter, I may IQUESTION-POLICE UNIFORMS, HOW say that the Kalgoorlie Road Board SUPPLIED. District Tramways Act, 1900, gives the Mn. HOPKINS asked the Premier: Government the option of either requir- ing the company to contribute £83,000 r, Whether the contractors supplying towards a bridge capable of providing for police uniforms are able to cope with the ordinary vehicular and foot traffic (as demands of the department? 2, If not, well as for'- tramways) or requiring the for what number of months are such company to build a bridge entirely at uniforms overdue ? 3, 'What effort is being made to bring the supply up to their own expense for their own purposes only. dateP Tnu PREMIER replied: The pre- QUESTION-POLICE BENEFIT FUND, sent contractors are giving every satis- TO REPORT ANNUALLY. faction in the supply of police uniforms. MR. IHOPKiINS asked the Premier: a, Why the annual statement of receipts and QUESTION-BOULDER SCH1OOL. OVER- disbursements in 'onnection with the CRO WDING, Police Benefit Fund was not published in MR. HOPKINS asked the Premier: the Government and Police Gazettes. z, t, If the Boulder school is overcrowded, Whether he approved of withholding this w ho is res ponsi ble for such overc rowdingP information from those persons whose 2, What efforts are being wade with a subscriptions were used to maintain and view to providing adequate accom moda- augmen t the fund. tionl? THE: PREMIER replied: It had not THE COLONIAL SECRETARY re- heen the practice hitherto to publish the plied: s, Including the main hail, the annual statement in connection with the Boulder Senior School will accommodate Police Benefit Fund, but there was no 565 children. The average attendance reason-why it should not be done. last quarter was 465. The main hall accounts for 130 places, but it is desired QUESTION-POLICE FORCE, SUNDAY to leave this free for assembly, drilling, LABOUR., TO REDUCE. etc. The Infants' School will acco~mmo- MR. HOPKINS asked the Premier: date 330, the main halt accounting for Whether it was the intention of the 125, The average attendance last quarter Government to so amend existing regula- was 280. There is, therefore, no over- tions as to permit of constables enjoying crowding while the main halls are used at least every alternate Sunday off duty. for classes. That the halls have to be THE PREMIER replied: Constables used in this way is due to the very rapid were exempted from Sunday duty as often growth of the town. 2, The new Kamn- as it was practicable to do so. ballie School will relieve the pressure.

QUESTION-POLICE FORCE, RAILWAY QUESTION-rVAWROE SUBURBAN PASSES. SCeHOOL. MR, HOPKINS asked the Premier: ljn. HOPKINS askedl the Colonial *, Why railway passes are not granted Secretary: When it is intended to com- to members of the police force on annual mence the erection or the Ivanhoe leave. 2, Whether such privileges are Suburban School. enjoyed by the other branches of the THEf COLONTATj SECRETA.RY Gvrnment service. replied:- Tenders for the Kamballie School THE PREMIER replied: i, The only would be called immediately when an privileges allowed under the existing answer was received from the Lands 1914 Questione. [SEBY]N[ASSEMBLY.] No Confidence.ofdne

Department on the subject of the site. the Estimates for travelling allowance It was hoped that building would begin vote. in December. PAPER PRESENTED. QUESTION-RAILWAY BOILER, By the PREMIER: Return showing KALGOORLIE. Importation of Stud Stock (as ordered). Mat. THOMAS asked the Com missioner Ordered to lie on the table. of Railways: Whether he has made inquiries relative to the boiler in the MOTION-NO CONFIDENCE IN THE station -yard at Kalgoorlie; and, if so, GOVERNMENT. with what result. DEBATE, THIRD DAY. THE COMMISSIONER OF RAIL- Resumed from the previous day, on WAYS replied: The Locomotive Branch the motion by Hon. F. H. Piesse: "That has a small vertical boiler at -work in the the Government does net command the Ralgoorlie Station yard. This bailer was confidence of this House." inspected by the Boiler Inspector of the Hox. G. THROSSELL (Northamn) I Railway Department on the 8th July, rise to support the motion of the member 1901. The Steam Boiler Act, 1897, does for the Williams, and I1 desire it to be not apply to the Railway Department. understood that I do not do so on mere party lines. I am not here to play the game of the " ins" and the "outs." I rise QUESTION-RAB1BIT INCURSION, PARTICULARS. in support of the motion with a. deep sense of duity to this country. No Gov- Ma&. THOMAS asked the Premier at ernment that ever assumed power in this what distance from Burracoppin and or any other State have bad so great Raveusthorpe have rabi~its been found? opportunities opening out before them; Tan PREMIER replied: Ra4bbits have yet I regret, from my standpoint and been found 63 miles east of Burracoppin, from the standpoint of members on this and about 130 miles north-east of Ravens- side of the House, that the Govern- thorpe. ment have utterly failed to grasp these opportunities, or realise the responsibili- QUESTION-GOLDV5IELDS FIREWOOD ties resting on them. I cannot help say- SUPPLY, STATE ROYALTY. ing that it is a most deplorable thing MR. THOMAS asked the Premier: that the Premier of any State should i, Whether it is the intention of the Gov- have devoted the greater portion of his erment to impose a royalty on the speech to the defaming of the characters cutting of firewood upon the goldfields. of members on this (Opposition) side. 2, If so, whether the consumer will have Especially was it deplorable when the to pay this increased taxation. Premier referred to the member for the THE PREMIER replied: No decision Williams (Hon, F. H. Piesse). I have bas been come to. known that hon. member from boyhood, and I say it is a deplorable thing, and it QUESTION- POLICE ON GOLD is playing politics very low down when ESCORT DUTY. the Premier, with all his responsibilities, Mm. THOMAS asked the Premier: should spend so much time in defaming t, Whether it is a fact that the police on the character of the hon. member as he gold escort duty get a less allowance than has done. And. if the Premier is the man is sufficient to pay for their hotel accom- I once took him to be, having found out modation on their journey. 2, Whether, his error, he will do the right thing, if this is found to be correct, he will by apologising to the member for the increase the allowance. Williams. Reference was made, not in a Tan PREMIER replied: Police comnplimentary tone, to the "remnants of employed on the regular gold escort from the old Forrest party." I thank the Lawlers, and in the North-Ea4st Cool- Premier for making reference to that grie Police District, receive 6s. 3d. per party; and I ask myself, whence comes day travelling allowance, and in other the reason for the ji bing tones of the hon. districts 5s. The allowance can only be gentleman? The hon. member has sat increased by augmenting the amount on here always opposing measures brought No Confidence: [6 NOVEmBERa, 1901.] Debate, thid day. 1915 in by the Forrest Government for the with the sliding scale. The sliding scale good of the State, and if the State did was approved by' the Federal Parliament, not possess them to-day, we should be in a and the Government should have brought very different position. Go to Fremantle down a Bill and had the sliding scale to-day, and see the harbour studded with confirmed by the House. The Premier ships of all dimensions. We can now has, failed in his promise to that effect. take a ride in a railway train to the east, What do we find? A few days ago the to the south, to the north, and to the Premier, speaking at York, endeavoured west: all undertakings by this despised to find an excuse for breaking his binding Forrest remnant which the Premier promise; and in the city of Perth he said that he would offer no opposition to the of. The Forrest Government speaksstarted on a revenue of £2400,000, and abolition of the sliding scale. I ask, is lifted that revenue to three millions, and this a proper action on the part of the have raised this country to one of the most Premier? I consider this action is prosperous States of the Commonwealth. flouting the Treasurer, it is flouting the I say, all this has been brought about by members of the House and the country. the Forrest Government, who are so dis- At the same time it shows how lightly the paragingly spoken of. The Premier is responsibility sits on his shoulders. After altogether out of touch with the people if the Treasurer has given his Budget speech, he says the name of the Forrest party is not showing that he estimates the income of a name with which to conjure. If the the State at .£3,417,000, the Premier is Premier appeals to the country he will willing to reduce the amouut possibly by find that the despised Forrest Govern- £250,000; and after what the Premier ineat is still a name to conjure with; and has recently stated as to his willingness an to abandon the sliding scale of State I question if the hon. member, after appeal to the country, would occupy a duties, I may be told that he has only seat in this House. I do not desire, in given us another illustration of his my remarks which I make this after- readiness to "climb down" by*announcing noon, to traverse the flunes of previous that be and his Government will not speakers. I desire to give my reasons to defend the sliding Scale. I can only say the House and the country for rising to that I could have endured very much, but support this motion. I charge the Pre- that statement was the last straw which mier with having treated us to political broke the camel's back. By actions of gymnastics that no other State can aspire this kin~d, made in this House and before to. Let us go back to the Governor's the country, the Premier has been wasting Speech. That Speech outlined a policy the time of the House and has been which was stated to be -all that the disappointing the expectatious of the country desired, and the pages of Hansard country, while he ha~s also been dealing disclose the fact that members all round with the finances of the State in such a the House recognised that it was a fair way that he is actually willing to make a policy and such a one as we could give sacrifice equal to a quarter of a million of adhesion to. money. We know right well too that no MEm~vR: Why did you block it, then? such sacrifice can be afforded by this or HoN. G. TH ROSSELL: In the Gov- any other Government which has to carry ernor's Speech the following words occur, on the affairs of this State. The Treasurer and I knew at the time when I read them has told us that he will have to provide that they would rise in judgment aganst in the present year for the payment of the Government-the words were: " My £175,000 on account of interest and present Ministers will faithfully observe sinking fund for the Coolgardie water the obligations entered into by my late scheme, and that so far as he knows at Ministers." How has the promise been present there are no means by which an kept ? Let the history of the House tell immediate return can be earned on the us, let the pages of Hansard tell us, what The v expended in this great scheme. regard the Premier has had for that TePremier has also committed the solemn promise. Coming from the Pro- country to other great measures, notably miea-, it was a promise that should have the commencement of the building of satisfied us all. What was the first halls of Parliament at an estimated cost notable thing that occurred ? I will deal of X100,000 [some laughter]; and though 1916 No Contfidence: [A[ASSEMBLY,] ML. Debate,eattiddy third day.

I do not say be is going to spend that who will not permit me to do it! " The amount at once, yet the country is Premier reminds me very much of the committed to that expenditure as well as tactics. of the ostrich which, when it to other great works. If the Premier buries its head in the sand leaving its had occupied the dual position of Premier body exposed to the hunter, fancies it and Treasurer, ho would not have made is secure and hidden safely from view. use of those words which he tittered so We know in connection with the sliding lightly, about abandoning the revenue scale and the five years' grace given to from the sliding scale; but we know it is us under the Commonwealth, that there only another instance of a little toadying is something more than finance connected to elec.tors on the part of the Premier. with it. What was the object of this We have had an experience of his posing as sliding scale? The Premier may laughi a seeker after popularity during the strike, at it, but I say he has utterly failed when hie went down to meetings of the to grasp his responsibilities. Why was railwy men, and mixing with them said, the sliding scale given to us as one of "1Give us a pipe of 'bacca, man!I" That the States entering into federation? It sort of thing might do ver 'y well for a was given to us as a period of grace, king of burlesque, but it will not do during which time we might so develop for one in whom the destinies of this our resources and so strengthen our in- State are placed. So far as we know dustries that we should he more fully the Premier, he was not in earnest when fitted to enter into competition in free- he went about the country preaching- trade with the other States of the cheap living under federation, and pro- Commonwealth. But the Premier, with mising a great increase of population and all his abilities, has utterly failed to grasp great times under the Commonwealth; that aspect of the eliding scale. The for surely no one can be more convinced Premier made reference also to the loan than be should be now that in making which has recently been raised in the promises and predictions of that kind to London market, and he charged it on the people of this country, he was literally members itting uponl this side of the preaching a lie. What do we find? House that they had blocked the Loan Instead of cheap living, does not the Bill because the Government came down wage-earner find that he is in a. worse for authority to borrow 31 ilflions, and position now, under federation, than he the House gave them authority to borrow has been in for a very long time ? And Ionly £92,600,000. Even then, the autho- has not the Premier said lateLy something rity which was given by the House was to this effect: -"lamstill the Premier of absolutely a million too much. We find this country, who has been preaching to also that the loan which has actually you cheap living under federation; and been raised by the Government will entail now that I find the living is not so cheap, a loss of £30,000 on the country; and I am willing to sacrifice two or three the fault is that of the Premier and those hundred thousand pounds of the revenue connected with him. We know the of this State, if you will only force my Premier has never lost an opportunity of hand sufficiently to do away' with the defaing this country and its financial sliding scale." Thle hion. gentlemau has Iposition, and has never lost an oppor- had the support of many members on this tunity of exaggerating figures so as to side of the THouse in bringing about make the position appear less fatvourable federation under those promises which he than it is. He has said repeatedly, fromn made to the people of this State; and 'his place in this House and in the coun- although he has bad the help of these try, that he believes the Coolgardie Water members, he is now ready to turn round Scheme will yet be the curse of this on theta and say: "It is the old Forrest country. Such are the utterances of a party again who are opposing me, and Premier to whom has now been entusted preventing me from doing away with the the finishing of that great scheme; so sliding scale. I would sacrifice the that when he placed on the market a loan finances of this country, I would give to for carrying out that scheme and com- the people cheap food; hut there are pleting a work to which the. country is members on the Opposition side of the cornmitted, he stood before the world as Honse, members of the old Forrest party. one seeking to borrow money for carrying No Confidence: [6 Nov~MBraR, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1917 out a work which he Lad himself said surer and his announcemnent that we would be the curse of this country! B y would have to pay X1,500,000 for the placing the loan on the market consider- Midland Railway, that in uuaking this ably under price, a rush was created for statement he was speaking not so much the stock; and the position of this loan, as a representative of this State as an as a consequence of the Premises actions, agent for the Midland Company. I might, is that it iil entail a great loss on the say that, but I will not say it. (General country. I charge him, and those asso- laughter.) Now a few words with regard ciated with him, that by his action during to the reorganisation of the Railway the five months they have, occupied Department, In the previous session we those benches he has entailed on the passed a resolution in this House that country a clear loss of £30,000 in a Royal Commission should be appointed connection with the Coolgardie Water to take into consideration the whole Scheme! We come next to another of the railway system of the State, charge referred to by the Premier, in and make recommendations to this regard to the negotiations for the pu- House. There was uot a member all chase of the Midland Railway Company's round this House who did not agree with property. I charge on the Government, that resolution; for we recognised that in connection with this matter, that we this great spending department which have lost the opportunity of acquiring had grown "p during 10 years might that railway property at a fair price. No require reorganisation; that at the end one knows better than the Premier, since of our loan policy for a time, the railway he has had opportunity of becoming system might be over-manned, and there acquainted with the papers, that the late might be abuses which required Government had taken certain action by correction; therefore we agreed that a which we were at liberty to open negotia- Royal Commuission should deal with the tions for the purchase of that property whole question. If that course had been for £1,100,000. [Interjection by the taken, we should have had none of this Pn~sn, and some laughter.] It is turmoil in this House and in the country; absolutely true, and I can prove it. We but what do we find ? The present Com- know tha the hon. gentleman was not missioner of Railways, who is a law unto too happily placed in regard to the himself, and who promised that a, Royal Treasurer; and we know that when the Commission should begin the inquiry at Treasurer went to Gemildton, instead of once, has never moved in that direction, his being informed of the latest facts in but has takeni on himself the whole work regard to) the Midland Railway negotia- of reorgauisation; and in doing so he tion, as he ought to have been informed hia done a grievous wrong to individuals through the Premier who was then and to the State. Every business man acquainted with them, we find the Trea- and every politician knows that when surer travelling about in ignorance of reforms are necessary, there are two ways that negotiation, and announcing to the of bringing them about: one by con- country that in his opinion we should not stitutional means, and the other by get that railway for less than X1,500,000. revolution. The constitutional means The Treasurer, one of the most con- were placed at the disposal of the Gov- scientious of men, could not have ernment, by the resolution affirming that been aware of the negotiation which a Royal Commission should be appointed had been opened when he made that to investigate the working of the railway statement; and I say the Treasurer was system; but this constitutional course not treated fairly by the Premier in the was not taken, and, instead of it, we matter, for he went to Geraldton utterly have had reform simply by revolution, ignorant of the fact that we had resumed and this revolution has been attended negotiation. for the purchase of that pro- with loss and disaster and turmoil. I do perty for £1,100,000. We have been not wish farther to deal with this railway treated just lateiy to some of the most matter, as there are other members of the lamentable exhibitions in this House that House better acquainted with railway ever a Parliament witnessed. If I were details who will speak on it. I only wish inclined to descend so low, I could have to express my strong conviction that the said, with reference to the Colonial Trea- Government have set about necessary 1918 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third dayj. reform by wrong measures; therefore, contains but by what it does not contain, they stand condemned for that. With is one of the most dangerous measures regard to federation, I said at the be- ever introduced to the House, and it ginning of my remarks that no Govern- will be easy to prove this at the proper ment were ever called upon to take power time. under snob favourable, conditions as the THE PREMIER: The same omissions, T present Government. suppose, in your Bill. THE PREMIER: You made it so easy! How. G. THROSSELL: We placed at HoN. G. THROSSELL: No Govern- the disposal of the Government a certain ment ever had such an opportunity of sum for drainage, and it was my inten- showing the stuff they were made of and tion this session to have introduced an the statesmanship they possessed for amending Bill. What do we find in developing the State; but I look around this Bill? Consider the question of and I find that the Government have close settlement for thrifty men. We are acted like a need 'y tradesman. They have going to convert land worth l~s. an acre deluged us with Bills, and in the future, into laiid worth X5 or £210 an acre, and when the history of the Leake Govern- there is no forecast in the Bill before us ment comes to be written, they will be that the Government intend to drop the recognised as the kite-flying Ministry, a selection of free farms of 160 acres. or Ministry that dealt in Bills but very few that they intend to stop the selection of practical measures. With regard to the a thousand acres of conditional purchase legislation they have introduced, they land. We should take care-and we will have shown that they did not grasp the take care, while the present Government position. They should have followed up are in power or any other Government- the labour legislation by making provision that we do not wake up from a tool's on the Estimates for the appointment of paradise and find we have been playing a labour secretary to deal with matters in into the bands of speculators, and creat- connection wvith labour organisations. ing a great curse to this country. There What is the use of labour legislation with are members on this side of the House men who do not understand it? There who are coniversant with the subject, who should have been a labour department will bear mue out that there must be pure and simple to advise the Govern- special legislation in dealing with this ment as to the best mode of dealing with great matter. Five hundred acres are strikes or other troubles. This is one of little enough for farming proper, but one the opportunities they have missed. What man should not have more than 20 acres are we getting from entering this great of this drained land. We must take care federation ? We are told, and we know we are not imposed upon by those who it. to be true, that compensation has been have alread y selected. Before we move made to us in the shape of this five years' in that drainage question and convert the breathing time. What for? To establish 10s. land into £95 or £10 land, the House industries, to place people on our lanrd, should be furnished with a return show - to attract population, and to take every ing those who hold conditional purchases mode to fit ourselves for a higher national and how much they hold. A person who life at the expiration of these five years. holds 1,000 acres should prove his bona But I search in vain all the acts of the fidies and show what he has done with present Government. I foil to realise the land, before we commit ourselves to one act which shows they have grasped this drainage scheme; and we should their possibilities and have been able to live guard against converting a man who has up to them. The Premier has referred to not spent a shilling on his land into a other Bills. He has referred to the Land little millionaire. We have abuses with Bill that was tabled in this House. That regard to land on our goldfields, but I will serve me by way of illustration to show venture to say that if we do not take care whether the Government are capable of we shall have greater abuses in connec- conducting the affairs of this country, tion with the drainage in the South-West. whether they have that foresighit and I thank Ihe Premier for making an allu- that grasp of the country's aiffairs which sion to the subject. Although r compli- we so require at this juncture in our ment the Government on what useful history. That Land Bill, not by what it legislation they have introduced, this No Confidence: [6 NOVEMIBER, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1919

Land Bill shows the incapacity of the are the best of men, they are the worst of Government, and they have proved they statesmen. I think it was said of the possess no foresight and no grasp of the fluke of Marlborough and Lord Bacon, great responsibilities cast upon them. that they were, the wisest and meanest of Where ase we going to attract popu- their kind. I will not apply that to my lation ? Here is a question for the f riends-far is that from me; but I do Labour members. Let us see whether say they, are the poorest statesmen this they understand the question or not. State or anyv other State has ever seen. At the present moment we give away 160 Much as f respect the Premier, and acres to every man landing on our shores, friendly as I feel towards hire, I never and what would be more simple than to felt so sorry or grieved in my life as when make proper provision to continue such a I read his speech in detail, and found system in this Land BillP The simplest page after page devoted to defaming the amendment could have been made in the character of members on this side of the Bill, that not more than 160 acres should House. be given away, and not less than 10 MINSERIA MEMBER: Tou cannot acres as a free farm, and we should have refute it. made absolute provision for the toiler. fox. G. THIROSSELL: He has told Reflection will clearly show that the the country we are all rascals and rogues. working men in these days are as neces- He said he was going to clean out the sary to the State as the farmer proper. pigeon-holes, and how, in the name of There is nothing more simple than to God and commo n sense, has he cleaned provide a hundred acres here and there them out? When he found a mare's which would make twenty homes for nest, be moved for that jacket and this twenty men, with all their conveniences jacket. Clearing the pigeon-holes! and their associations. The men would :Where are the gigantic frauds he led his fall back upon their little homes at the audience to suppose he would reveal ? 1 proper time when out of work, and so be challenged him when we were debating self-supporting, and we should thus do the Address-in-reply, that if there were away with the cry of the unemployed. I any such abuses it was his duty to bring say the Ministry do not understand this them out. He has kept what he had up question. They give us Bills, but they his sleeve until the time of moving this do not introduce practical legislation. no-confidence motion, and he has not My reading goes to show that the states- dlone himself justice. My experience of men of Europe fully recognise the life justifies me in saying he has never importance of this question. We have before done such a fatal thing for his all read of a peasant proprietary building own reputation as he has by the exhibition up France; but the new Ministry have he treated us to last night, and any man lost the most glorious opportunity that of my experience knows that such conduct ever Ministers had. I appeal to my will defeat its own object. It creates a friends the Labour members whether this sympathy for the assailed. is not utterly lost sight of by the present Tun PREmRs: Are you not going to so-called progressive Ministry. I feel take it out of me? justified in saying that so far as I am HON. G. THROSSELL: The hon. concerned, after giving the Government gentleman will find he has created an a fair trial, I have come to the conclusion active sympathy for the member for the that they have forfeited my confidence. Williams, an active sympathy not only Although I am not an office-seeker, but throughout this House, but throughout an independent, I feel justified as a the State. In conclusion, I say that if you colonist of fifty years' standing, in follow- send us to the poll, as I hope you will, ing up the old traditions of the Forrest von will find that you never made a Government, in protecting the State and greater mistake in your life. People seeing it has justice done to it. I who have forgotten their debt of do not intend to take up the time of gratitude to the Forrest Ministry, who the House farther with this matter, were their friends, will realise, that which those who an following me will in the Forrest party they had men deal with more in detail. I only re- who knew the State and its require- iterate that whilst the present Ministry ments, and who could initiate great 1920 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day.

measures. When we ride through the regards this particular bench (Labour), country we ask ourselves whether the we can at all events claim to have kept Forrest party had not the gift of second clear of these personalities. (OPPOSITION sight. When you consider our railways, MEMBERS: Hear, hear.) I think it which were always hotly opposed by would be far better for the House and members opposite, when you see that for the country if the debates could be £2200,000 a 'year is spent on the coal entirely freed from such disfigurements. fields for wages, and you know the As regards the present debate, I do not Government. themselves spend £2100,000 intend to deal in any shape or form with a year for coal, and when you remember personalities. It may be necessary- it that the present Government opposed frequently is needful--for us to discuss every measure put forward for the progress political happenings as they affect in- of the State, I appeal to hon. members dividual members ; but in doing that, we whether those men who displayed such can do it without casting an unnecessary opposition 'are the men to whom we personal stigma upon the members to can faithfully entrust our affairs. I whom we refer ; and we can do it in such appeal to members of this House, I a fashion that there Shall be no sting that appeal to fair-minded members on the may affect our private intercourse outside other (Government) side, and I appeal this House. It seems to me the personal to the country for a verdict upon this feeling here is largely engendered by the question, whether the present Govern- fact that in this State parties are at ment have proved themselves worthy of present unfortunately divided not by the trust reposed in them; and I for one, principle but largely by personal con- and those associated with me, are willing siderations; and many hon. members in to go to the polls on the question) and I Opposition are opposing the Government challenge the Premier to dissolve this of the day simply because the Govern- House and send us to the country. Then ment are constituted as they are, and we will prove "up to the hilt" - those members desire to see them con- MRt. GEORGE: " Up to the hilt! " a stituted differently; not because the very good phrase. Government have introduced any bad HON. G. THROSSELL: Prove up to legislation; not because they have done the hilt whether the old Forrest party any deeds which require condemnation; can best retain the confidence of the but simply on personal grounds and on people of this great State. personal grounds ouiy.- And this has the THE PREMIER: Would you not like effect of introducing the personal element to say something about the destroyed into the debates of the House. In regard Executive Oouncil records, and the to the present motion of no-confidence, I Daigety caseY niay Sa I intend to cast a vote against [Interjections by Opposition members.] it; and I intend to cast a vote against it MR. F. CONNOR: We will soon give because it seems to me there have, up to you something which will affect you. the present, been no sufficient grounds MR. H. DAGLISH (Subiaco): I adduced for bringing it forward, except think it is to be regretted that in the one round that there is a majority important debates in this House it seems of members of this House sitting on the absolutely impossible to keep out of Opposition side. sight the element of personal hostility. Mn. HARPER: A good ground. [OPPOSITION MEMBES: Hear, hear.] MR. DAGLISH: In regard to argu- These debates are to a large extent ment, this expedition to catch the Treasury disfigured by this personal element. I benches seems to have been badly take it from the approval 1 receive from equipped; or at all events, if arguments some of the bon. members opposite who are available, they have not so far been have done their little share towards brought forward. I was very much in- introducing the personal element, that terested on hearing the aflusions made by they will translate their sympathy into the member for Northam (Hon. G. Thros- actual practice. sell) to the Forrest party as a name to MR. GEORGE : Speak to your own side. conjure with, So far as I am able to Mu. DAGLISH: I was not referring judge, the country 'nay well say, " A to one side alone; but I do say that as plague on both your parties !" I cannot No confidence: [6 NOTEUBBR, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene; 6 OVEBERthird 191] day. 1921 recognise the advantage of keeping alive we are told, was intended to give us five either the one party or the other; and so years' breathing-space for the purpose of far as I can see, it is purely on personal establishing our industries. But we -find grounds that this old division is now that about nine-tenths of the State tariff kept alive. The head of the old party is consist of purely revenue duties which gone, and the tail wags very weakly; but cana in no way assist to build up indus- I must object to the contention that we tries; and therefore, for the purpose of are to support the remnant of that party building~ up our industries, the sliding sim ply because of the enormous inc rease scale is not only not useful, but it is in the revenue of this State during the absolutely destructive, increasing as it past ten years. That revenue, it seems does the cost of living to those who are to me, is not to be credited to the mem- engaged in those various industries, and bers of the late Forrest party, but to the increasing in some eases the cost of their people of this State, and to them alone. raw material also. But the objection ini They are the source from which the connection with the sliding scale seems revenue has been drawn; and the people after all a purely sentimental objection. have come to this State largely because The Government have not so far attacked of the golden magnet by which they have the sliding scale. That is one of my been attracted. If gold had not been complaints against the Government, discovered, certainly, there would not that they have not assailed the sliding have been the accession of population scale; and it seems to be purely the fear and the consequent increase of revenue of members of the Opposition that the that has followed. Now I do not think Government may in future do something anyone seriously claims that the Forrest in that direction that has caused them to party is responsible for the discovery of be so severe in their attack on this point, gold in Western Australia; but I think And again, the Government have been my friends sitting on my right (other made responsible for the comparative Labour members) will contend, as repre- failure of the last loan ; but in my sentatives of the goldfield&, that the opinion the real difficulty lies in the fact Forrest party dlid all that could he done that this State is, as regards its London to discouge the influx of people desir- loans, in the hands of a bank; and so ing to prospect for gold, to discourage long as the State remains in the hands of the influx of persons desirous of following a bank or banks, it does not matter who mining occupations in this State. And may be the bank or who the Agent if the magnet has been strong enough to General, so long shall we find that a large draw population in spite of the unfair, share of the money which ought to come the unjust treatment very often extended to this State is absolutely swallowed up in to the settlers who came here to follow expenses and in comm issions before it that particular calling, then surely we are leaves London. And I say it is unfair to not entitled to give to the Forrest party charge the Government with that, and to any credit in the matter. A great deal bring it forward as justification for a. has been said by the last speaker regard- motion of want of confidence. Thea ing the sliding scale. That seems to be again we have heard this evening some- the real ground of the attack upon thing about the Midland Railway nego- the Government, na far as I am able tiations, and about certain remarks made to judge of this debate. The sliding some time aW by the Colonial Treasurer scale was only inferentially alluded to (Hon. F. lingworth). But those re- by the member for the Williams, in marks, if my recollection serves me, were opening the discussion; but at the made absolutely before the Address-in- same time, there is no doubt more reply was passed; and if there was feeling has been displayed in regard to ground for challenging the Government the sliding scale than on any other point because of those remarks, then the chal- of the attack upon the Government. lenge should have been made three This sliding scale seems. to be regarded as months ago. As it was not given three one of those monuments of the late months ago, we must take it that in Forrest party before which we are to bow reference to that matter there is no the knee and worship, altogether irres- ground for impeaching the Government. pective of its effect. The sliding scale, It seems to me very significant that the 1922 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY][SEML.Dbte Debate, thh-dhdd. day. opportunity for reopening the negotia- Mn. DAGLISH: It strikes me as tions with the Midland Company should strange that what in him was a virtue arise immediately the Theake Administra- should in the present Commissioner be a tion took office, and should not have crime. But another remarkable change arisen before; that the past Government has come over the hon. member within can escape all responsibility in connection the last month. A month ago I had the with the failure to effect a purchase of pleasure of introducing to this House the railway, while the present Govern- a proposal to bring in the eight-hours ment, immediately they take office, are system on the railways. I brought for- blamed for not at once entering into ward that motion because it seemed to me negotiations and carrying them to a. suc- that a resolution passed last session was cessful issue. When the member for escaping the attention it was entitled to Nortbam referred to the present Ministry receive. I did not, on that occasion, as a. kitedlying Ministry, I was struck obtain the support of the member for with the idea that he must for a minute the Williams; but now apparently he or two have been confusing dates, and has become a convert to the eight-hours was thinking of some of the deeds of his principle. He said. the other day, in own party which undoubtedly fully attacking the Commissioner of Rail- deserved that appellation. I really am ways;- not aware of any instance of bkite-flying We find that when these men asked for a by the present Administration, or of any- uniform eight-hours day, a proposal is made thing 'which would justify that retort to reduce wages. I repeat, when the motion from the member for Northanm. I do not was passed by the House, no conditions were intend to go right through the whole of imposed in regard to it. The condition as to the reduction of wages was not made, or even the remarks made in this debate by the mentioned. I maintain that in this instance leader of the Opposition; but one thing the Government have caused trouble. They which particularly puzzled me was the have broken faith with the men as regards the change of front that he exhibited in resoluition. regard to his charge against the present Now this indicates a most remarkcable Commissioner of Railways. One of the change of front in the hon. member, principal points he made against the because not only has he previously not present Commissioner was that the Com- been an advocate of short hours, but missioner had shown a great deal of neither has he been an advocate of high backbone; in fact, to quote somewhat wages. closely the words of the leader of the HON. F. H. PissnE: I join issue with Opposition- you. I was the first man to raise the With his determination to carry things with wages. a high hand, in the same way as he did in the cases I have previously mentioned, where he Ma. DAGLISH: I am glard the hon. brought these matters before the House and member has raised the wages at some showed what he could do, he wished to make time; but I have no recollection of out that he had a "satiff back." hearing him on the floor of this House The leader of the Opposition seems to speaking on the subject without advo- conclude that the Commissioner of Rail- cating economy. ways has a stiff back. HON. P, H. PlEassE: True economy. HON. F. 11. PrEa8En- I did not COMn- Mn. DAd LISH: And economy in plain of his "stiff back," but of his lack wages, as apart, from economy in general of discretion. administration. But the chanige of front Mu. DAGLISH: I have a recollection in the hon. member rewinds me of the of the leader of the Opposition posturing motto of the Little Fed dlington news- before the country some 12 months ago paper, which I can slightly paraphrase as the gentleman with the "stiff back," for the occasion-. ad actually leaving his Government and All parties to please, and all difference to giving himself sundry public testimonials smother, because he had left the Government on What I say one day r retract on another. account of the firmness of his backbone. On the 2nd of this month, the hon. Ma. HoirNs: He has never been the member told us, speaking on the eight- same man since. hours question, that the resolution passed No colyidencs: - 16 NoyFuHniL, 1901.3 NoDebate,onfdene: 6 Nvsn, third1011 day. 1923 last year was adopted without due con- and in the course of one the member for sideration. He said:- the Williams said: The principle has now been revived, although There is no one sympathises more than I do it is not quite the same principle as was with the Government in the difficulty in which affirmed by the House last session. I do not they find themselves. . . . It *:eems to me disagree with the application of the eight- that the Commissioner's attitude is one which hours system to laborious work. I think eight mnuat commend itself to the country; and hours is sufficiently long for laborious work therefore it having been once determined that of any kind; but for work of the character the course which he has set before the men is which many railway employees are engaged in, the right one, I consider that no farther sug- the hours can certainly be lengthened beyond gestion should be made by the House at this eight, without harm to the individual con- stage beyond indorsing the action of the cerned and without detriment to the safe Commissioner. . . . I take it the Govern- working of the railways. ment have done everything they can. It is my earnest desire to do all that may,- be That is only a month ago. A little later in my power to help the Government. in the same speech the hon. member said: That was. on the railway strike-the night Many railway employees have light occupa- tion, and do work of such a character that 9 or before it occurred, -and when it was 10, or even 11 hours, is not too much. threatened. But a. little later on, in the following week, a motion was introduced Yet the hon. member, after this, attacks the Government on the ground that they by the Premier, to justify the action of have not introduced eight hours as a the Government in the strike, on which day's an amendment was subsequently moved work in the Railway Department* by the member for South Fremantle Later on, speaking on the same motion, the lion. member said: (Mr. Diamond). In that discussion the member for the Williams again spoke, I cannot see that any good will result from and said.: the adoption of this principle, excepting of course so far as it would affect the men, whose Iam well aware of the difficulties with which pay would be increased. the hon. gentleman has been faced; and I may say, knowing as I do of these difficulties, and That is on the 2nd October, when the also the results which might follow a hasty hon. member preferred to stand up to determination in this direction in regard to oppose the motion, and preferred political the expenditure, there is ino one who cart annihilation to pandering to any class of commend bin) more than I dio for the action he the people. has taken. HON. F. H. PiEssE:- That was manly. I ask is it political honesty for the hon. Mua. DAGLISH : That was very manly. member to speak in that tone? Now the hon. member is pandering to the HON. F. H-. Pf EssE : You are taking people, and is attacking the Government extracts: why not give the whole ? for failing to do what he has always Mn. DAGTSH: It is necessary to go opposed, and what he failed to dto when through sueb a, large amount. of chug! to in office, and what he objected to the get so few grains of wheat, and I have Government doing, so lately as last no time,. and the House has not the month. The hon. member might take a patience, if I had the time, to listen to little more time to aillow his utterances to me. There is nothing in these extracts be forgotten. The lightning-change which I have quoted which is inconsistent artist is a very desirable person on some with the rest of the speech, and as far as stages, hut not on the political stage, I am capable of judging, I have done the and the hon. member's capacity in that hon. member full justice in the extracts. direction does not prove his capacity I have not selected them for any purpose necessarily for political leadership. We except to show that the hon. member find the whole basis of attack, so far took up a position two or three months as the member for the Williams is ago entirely different from that which he is concerned, was in regard to railway taking up to-day; and if he is pleased to administration; and we find not only was say that he did not do so, I am quite the General Manager condemned, but the prepared to give him other instances on Commissioner of Railways was distinctly other subjects, in which he has made the charged with having caused the recent right-about-face. strike. I find, when this strike was going Mu. Gnouos: That shows he is not on, there were two debates in this House, fossilised. 1924 No Confidence. [SB[ASSEMBLY.] BYJDbttiddy Dkbate, third day.

AIR. DAGLtISH: That shows that the justified in suspending Mr. John Davies hon. member has found that theme is a I on the evidence taken before the inquiry certain Labou r party in this House, and I board. The evidence given by Mr. am very glad the fact has dawned on the Davies himself fully justified the sus- hon. member, and I hope he will bear it pen ~ioo by the Commissioner of Railways; in mind in future. At the same time I and so far as I am concerned, the finding think it is hardly reasonable to condemn of the heard justified the suspension, the Government to-day for what the ben, but against what appeared to be serious member commended them for two or charges, the General Manager has three months ago. I think the hon. sheltered himself under Ministerial au- member has hardly been fair to the thority. I happen to differ from the Government in that respect, in accusing board in regard to what are the duties of the Commissioner of having caused the a, permanent head of a Government de- railway strike. He has forgotten, I part-ment. I think any permanent officer think, some of the past history of rail- of the Government service should be held way government. The hon. member responsible for the recommendations traced hack the beginning of the strike made to the Minister, and should not be to a speech delivered by the member for sheltered from attack because he has East Fremantle (Hon. J. J. Holmes) two obtained Ministerial approval. J am in- years ago, when the member for the clined to believe in the position the Williams was Commissioner of Railways. Premier took up when he seemed to I can trace back to about the same date attach more blame to the member for the the origin of the railway strike, to the Williams thanl to the Railway Manager, time when the member for the Williams but the Railway Manager m us t be blamed was Commissioner of Railways; hut I do for wrong recommendations, and whether not think the speech of the. member for the evidence or the finding of the board East Fremantle bad any effect whatever may be held to justify his farther punish- in creating dissatisfaction in the Rail- ment or not, I am not prepared to say. way Department. Dissatisfaction existed But there was amuple ground for inquiry before he spoke ; dissatisfaction was by an independent board ; far better than caused by the fact that the lower any inquiry by the House, or by aLRoyal grade of the public servants in the Commission. Railway Department were paid unduly MR. GEORGE: Provided it was inde- low wages, and were required to work pendent. unduly long hours, whil.j, the hon. mnem- Ma. DAGLISH: As far as I am able ber was in- power, and at the same time to judge, it was an independent board. higher officers were fattened by heavy Although a few questions were asked by annual increases of pay. The country one hon. member in this House for could not afford then to pay fair wages to reasons why one gentleman was appointed the lower class of officers, but it could on that board, there was nothing in the afford to give heavy annual increments to shafpe of a statemnent against any member the big officers. At the same time men of the board brought forward, and until were continually promoted because they the member for the Murray (Mr. George) were departmental pets, while others brings forward a statement that the who were not favourites, were dismissed, members of the board were not indepen- nut only without inquiry. or without a dent, I inust be satisfied that they were. word of explanation, but without either MR. GEORGE: I did not say they were rhyme or reason, in the unjust adminis- not. tration that abaracterised the railways MR. DAGITSH: The hon. member before the present Commissioner came queried my statement. into power. In that unjust. adminis- MR. GEORGE: I said they were inde- tration lay the secret of the present rail- pendent. way strike. But I do not want to labour MR. DAGLISH: There was an this point. There is another charge insinuation against the independence of against the Commissioner of Railways, the hoard, and if the hon. member did the suspension of Mr. John Davies, and not mean that. perhaps be will explain I am prepared to support the Govern- to the House, if he did not mean any'thing, ment, and say that the Government were that he wits interjecting for the sake of No confidence: [6 NOVEMBER, 190L] NoDebaonfdene: te,-6NvEMER,190.] third day. 2925

inerecin only. In regard to the want of confidence motion uintil after the condemnation of the appointment of G. Bill had been passed. I think that would W. Davies, I am inclined to take a stand have been a reasonable proceeding; hut against the Commissioner of Railways. I regard his utterance on the subject as I think this Government, or any Govern- very contradictory of his other utterances ment, should be very' slow to make in regard to domestic legislation. The appointments outside the Government hon, member said : service, without searching to ascertain We find that we can get any amount of whether or not there are capable men in legislation brought down here, legislation the service. At the same time, my know- dealing with domestic matters, no doubt, and ledge of the Government service enables this is legislation to which I do not. take exception ; but, as I pointed out the other me to say that the Government merely evening, the Government have Hlooded this followed on a practice which had been House with a volume of such legislation then in vogue for years past in this State. we have important matters to deal with. Let When a vacanicy worth having in the us deal with these important matters which Government service occurred, someone are before the country. from outside the service was appointed The hion. member is objecting to this for the purpose of filling the vacancy. Arbitration Bill and to other Bills before Apart from that question, the appoint- the House because lie wants to get on uient of one wan outside a. department with important business. What could to a position inside is not justification be more important, on his own showing for a motion of want of confidence; and even, than this Arbitration Bill, and tbis the lion, member should re-ognise that, social legislation which he does not or he would have brought forward a oppose ?P WVhy, he has opposed it ; and motion when the appointment was made, a number of his associates on the Oppo- and not a month afterwards, When the sition benches have opposed it. They slightest charge was made against the and he have opposed this legislation at appointee, every opportunity; and the member for the Commissioner at once sus- pended him, and had] an inquiry held : the Miurray (Mr. George) on one occasion and if the Government deserve censure even wveut so far as to stonewall one for the appointment, they deserve credit measure of this class. for having an early inquiry made as to the MR. GORGEn: Why? man they had appointed. We heard MR. DAGLISH - I presume, because something more, indicating farther con- be did not want it to pass: 1 presume, version of the member for the Williams because he was opposed to the measure. in his remarks about the railways and There mnay have been some other reason the Arbitration Bill. He said: working in the mind of the member for If we slightly altered the clause now in the the Murray; but I cannot conceive any Bill. and had a properly-constituted court of other. The verytutterance gives ground arbitration, our position might be made tho- for suspicion that the object of the leader roughly safe in regard to this association. of she Opposition is to prevent domestic But what I want to point out to him is legislation being passed ; for theie will that he is, by his own motion, preventing not he any opportunity of passing this this Arbitration Bill, with the clause as domestic legislation during the present he desires it, from being passed. session if the want of confidence motion HON. F. H. PIEssE: We will do that I be successful. After the new Ministry afterwards. Fhave been elected, a month he-nce, it will 'MR. IDAGLISE:- And that he is be necessary for us to pass the Esti- causing a delay of some months in mates ; and after the Estimates have getting on with the passing of the Bill. been passed, there wifl not be any time MR. GEORGE: On constitutional lines. left; neither will bon. mere hers be willing MR. DAGLISHE: I am willing to to devote themselves in mid-summer to admit that the hon. member's course is attendance at this House. But we have quite constitutional; but I think that if heard of farther grounds of objection to hie believed, as he professes to believe, the present Mlinistry from the Opposi- in the necessity for getting the measure tion. One ground was introduced to our passed with the clause as he says be notice by the member for Guildford (Mr. desires it, he would have delayed his Itason), who stated that the Government 1926 No Confidence: (ASSEMBLY]ASML..ebttiddy Debate, third day. have decided to ran the quartz batteries cast a vote which I believe will he in the on our mining centres on commercial beat interests of the State, apart from any principles, and that if there be no stone personal considerations or any considera- for a battery to crush, then the battery tions whatsoever as between the Govern- is to be shut down. We are told that if ment on the one side and the Opposition this policy be adopted, the mining on the other. I am willing to admit that industry will be injured, that the mining the Government made a mistake in allow- industry will not succeed if we do not ing the Early Closing Amendment Bill to have batteries available for use where be adjourned, or to be delayed, in the there is no stone to keep them going. I Legislative Council; but that is a mis- contend that the Minister for Mines take which will be continued for a much has takien the only proper course, and 1longer period if a change of Government deserves credit from this House for the now take place, than if the motion of want manner in which he has dealt with the of confidence be defeated. If the motion public batteries question. Then we be defeated, the mistake can be remedied heard fromu the member for Ouildford, in a few days:- if the motion of want of too, that the postponement of the Abori- confidence be successful, the mistake will gines question was a matter justifying continue to exist for months, and it will attack on the Government. I find, how- beiouths before we c:an have the Bill ever, that the question was postponed at re-enacted. I am quite willing, too, to the instance of an Opposition member; admit that the Colonial Treasurer has and not only that, but the only opponents followed too closely in the footsteps of to the postponement were a few members the old Forrest party in the framing of from this side who crossed over in order his Estimates; but what are we to expect to try to prevent consideration of the if we have a Treasurer from the old matter being adjourued, as the considera- Forrest party in office instead? We can tion of so many other questions has been only anticipate that he will do far worse adjourned, at the instance of the Opposi- than the present Treasurer has done. tion. Those of us who crossed over were Then there has been a. certain complaint supplemented by one member on the of delay in legislation; but the delay has Opposition benches, the menmber for been caused by' the strong numbers on Roebourne (Dr. Hicks). All the other the Opposition side. [OPPOSITION MENr- members of the Opposition then in the ItEEs: No.] It has been caused purely House voted in favour of postponing the by the strong numbers on the Opposition farther consideration of the A-borigines side. Almost every matter which has question until a latter date. And then been. before the House has had to be the Government are blamed for the adjourned time after time. We would action of Opposition members! I con- have got much farther forward with the tend that if the Governmnent are to be social legislation to which the leader of thrown out of office, they should be ithe Opposition objects, if it were not thrown out on a fair, and reasonable, and posbvfor the fact that he does object truthiful attack- [OPPOSITION MEMBERS:- tit hat he is strongly opposed to it, Hear, hear] -and that good grounds 1 and that therefore, as he has the number should be given for their dismissal. in his party who are of the same way of Hon. members opposite should not attack thinking, the legislation has been delayed unless they have some good weapons, Some from time to time. However, we cannot clean weapons, to use against the Govern- blame the Government, with only a ment. I am quite prepared to admit that minority supporting them, for that. I the Government have made mistakes. I contend that the country at the present am not here as a thick-and-thin sup- time demands sound administration, and porter of the present Government, or of demands social legislation. The member any other Government which mnay chance for the Williams says, the country does to be in office. I am here as an not want social legislation; but if the independent member;i but not like some last general election meant anything, it of the independent members on the other meant a determination on she part of the side of the Rouse, prepared to vote with country to get social legislation. There a party at all costs and at all seasons. are but few members in the House who I am. here as an independent member, to are not pledged to social legislation. No[6 C~fldnee: NorsaiRa, 1901.] Debate, third day. 192712 0 No Confidence: However, we want also sound adminis- try: I do not remember to have met a tration; and I am quite satisfied that we single opponent of the Teake Ministry have More hope of getting sound ad-min- outside the House. [OPPoksITION 'MUM- istration from the present Government BER: You are likely to meet some soon.] than we are likely to have from any I am quite satisfied that the -will of the Government coming from the other side country is that the present Minaistry of the House. For the present Govei-n- should have a, farther trial, and that the went have given us an earnest of their opinion of the country is that the Ministry good intentions; they have shown a have done good service so far- [Mnia- desire to introduce reforms. Their re- TERIAL MEMBERS: Hear, hear]-and forms may not ha-ve come as quickly as that we are not warranted at the present we could have wished;- but, at all events, day in making a change. If we are there has been a beginning wade, and warranted in making a change, then we the other party, while in office, never should have to pause long and think made a start at all in reform. The deeply before -we decide on what that other party passed a Public Service Act change should be. At the last general during th~e last session they were in election the country Spoke very strongly power, after having had all the advan- against the Administration headed by the tage of public service patronage for 10 member for Northam (Hon. G. Throssell). years. When they were likely to go out I personally was returned as a distinct of office, when the handwriting had begun opponent of that Administration. The to appear on the wall, the late Govern- member for the Williams was not then ment passed a Public Service Act for the leading any party, but was rather in the purpose of preventing their sucoessors back-ground. As far as I am able to fromn enjoying the sweets of political judge, however, if the member for the patronage, and for the purpose of pro- Williams instead of the member for tecting the pets whom they have already Northami had been the leader of the got into the public service. [MINISTERIAL Government then, the majority against MEMBES; Hear, hear.] The p~resent the late Government would have been Government have been the first to show even bigger than it was. [MrNISERIAL a desire to reform; they have shown the MEMBERSs: Hear, hear.] Personally, 1 first desire of the kind that has been would far sooner support a vote of no- exhibited iqj this State. There would not confidence moved by the member for be a need for reform if the past adminis- Northam than one moved by the member tration had been pure and honest. [MTN- for the Williams; because I know that ISTERL4L MEMDB ERB : Hear, hear.]I As a social legislation and social reform have matter of fact, because the former Govern- far more sympathy from the member for ment were not pure, were not honest in Northamn than from the member for the the administration of the departments, Williams; and I believe that 'what the because appointments were made for country wants at the present time is reasons Of favonritism, because the best social legislation and social reform. I men were not appointed to the public trust hon. members, when casting their service, there is to-day an absolute need votes on this question, will not be for reform. And 1, as one member of influenced by the personal considerations the House, am quite satisfied, seeing the which seem to have weighed in this House Start the present Government have wade, so frequently in thepast. I trust they will that if we give them the opportunity they rise above party considerations and cast will carry their reforms farther in the a vote solely in the interests of the State. future. I like the fact that the Govern- I am quite satisfied that if they do that ment have not been afraid to begin at the at the present day, they will decide that top instead of the bottom of the tree. I the Government do possess the confidence believe the steps they have taken in of the House. this respect have been dictated by a MINISTERIAL MEMBERS:- Hear, hear. desire to serve the country; and I believe Mn. T. F. QUJINLAN (Toodyay) : I the country as a. whole is satisfied with rise, as the House will know I Suppose-- those steps. So far as I am concerned, I (applause from Opposition members]- have not met outside the House any to support the motion of the member for opponents whatever of the Teake Minis- the Williams. 1928 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.]ASEBY] Debate,Dbeliday tkird day.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear. rake out the pigeon-holes we would find MR. HOPKNwS: No, no; don't! it so. The present Government have now MR. QUINLAN: In doing so, I desire had five months to carry that unfolding to say that whatever reference I may have and raking out into effect, and what has to make to the present occupants of the been the result? Last evening we bad, Treasury benches, I shall apply to them as my friend on my left termed it, one of in their Ministerial capacity alone. I the discoveries known as "a mare's nest." deprecate, as the member for Northam I refer to that transaction at any rate (Hon. G. Throssell) has done, and like- which ties been refuted absolutely here wise the member for Subiaco (Mr.flaglish), to-day by the leader of the Opposition- the introduction of personalities; and I allude to his connectioni with the although I Shall have occasion to make Xurrawang syndicate; and I was please-d some strong references indeed to a couple indeed to hear the letter he read to-day of members of the present Ministry, I from the manager of the National Sank. shall by all means avail myself of the I never doubted the hon. member; and I opportunity when reply is made of accept- have to-day, what I have always had, the ing any explanations that may be forth- very highest regard for the member for coming. In regard to one reference which the Williams. Indeed it would be well if I shall make to-day, however, I am not niv friend the Premier were at any rate prepared to accept an explanation; for the able to claim the same respect and esteem reason that I have here in my hanids the throughout the State which the member material of an accusation against the for the Williams possesses. Colonial Treasurer, which accusation is Mn. GARDINER (to the Premier): Oon- quite beyond question. Before coming eider yourself crushed. to that, however, I desire to remark that MR. HOPKINS (to the Premier): Send the Premier in the speech which he made in your resignation. in the Queen's Hall somec months ago, if MR. QUINLAN: I admit at once that he did not use the words " corr uption of outside this House there is no more the former Government " in their strictest genial or affable person to meet than the sense, at any rate implied that there had present Premier; but inside the House be been corruption ; and it is on that ground, seems to become embittered, at any rate on the strength of statements then made, against those who differ from hum in I take it, that he occupies the position of opinion, and there can be pio question Premier to-day; for matwally his remarks whatever that he is able to assume the caused throughout the Stae a feeling r6Ie of comedian to perfection. He has that there was something materially wrong had a very good training as an amnateur with the administration of the RightfHon. at that game in this State, and he has at, Sir John Forrest, who was so much all times commanded admiration in that esteemed, all over the world I way Say, particular line; but as to his sincerity or at any rate esteemed wherever his name the respect he commands as a politician, is kn~own. [SzvExnL MEMBERS: Hear, I venture to say he is certainly in the hear.] For my part, I see no reason eyes and voice of the people by all means whatever for withdrawing my particular in a minority. The Governmient have esteem from that gentleman. I think been sitting in a minority, as we know, it is to be deplored that an imp~lica- and I venture to assert if I had been in tion of that kind should be cast against the position they occupy to-day, I would one who has done so much for this State. have had more self-respect than to hang THE PRE311ER: I never said any'thing on to the twelve hundred golden reasons of the kind in the Queen's hall. in the case of the Premier, and the thou- MR. QUINLAN: It was distinctly sand golden reasons in the case 'of the implied. other Ministers. That is what they are THE PREmiER: Will you quote it? hanging on to. They give up their own MR. QUINLAN: Tt was distinctly respect to retain those seats, knowing implied. they are not representing the views and THE PREMIER: Will you quote it? Sentiments of the people. We are in a MR. QUINLAN: It was distinctly majority on this side, as will be proved implied that there was corruption, and Iat the conclusion of this motion. We that if we began to unfold the files and go farther and say we have the No Confidence: [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1929 country behind us. (Laughter on the knowing full well he had been dis- Government benches.) [MEMBER: That missed from the service, and they will not do.] I will challenge the must have known he was not going Premier, if the Governor is likely to to take his dismissal and sit quietly by; grant a dissolution, which he is not. nor would I or any other person who (Laughter on the Government benches.) had any spirit in himn. I would have at I do not pose here as a constitutional once appealed, and have sought the authority like the Treasurer, but I have remedies of the Court with regard to the authorities quoted by past Parliamentary dismissal. What did he do? He made no Governments which are sufficient in them- move whatever. What does the Com- selves. As, however, there has been no missioner of Railways doP I have argument used in that regard, I am not always had a good opinion of the hon. going to waste the time of the House by gentleman - I have always had an reading them. Anyone else can have opinion that he had some backbone; then, if he require them. but when he asked for the files, why THE PREMIER: Give us the pages of did he not, when he discovered there was "Todd." nothing in the papers about him, go MR. QUINLAN: I will give you the farther ? Because he must have known whole, if you like. As I said, I have not a man would not be discharged without posed here as a constitutional authority, some reason, although the papers obtained but I have friends who are acquainted in the first place did not reveal sufficient with this subject, and I avail myself of reason. It is all very well for the Com- their services. I say that if we had a missioner to tell us it was hidden from general election, by all means the Leaks him. He has common sense, and I am party would be in a minority. sure he will honestly admit he knew Ma. GEORGE: They would disappear. there were other reasons than those .on MR. QUINLiAN: They contend they the first papers before him. The subse- represent numbers, because of the gold- quent papers prove that the former Gov- fields constituencies. I admit that in ernment were justified in their action as numbers there they probably do, but to the modle of treatment. Possibly in they do not represent the general interests giving the officer three months' salary of the country; and it must be recollected, they thought it the more kindly way of too, that the people who have made this dealing with the matter, and for my part country, who have put up with the hard- LIbelieve in treating people kindly. The ships in the pioneer days, have the right Government would have my support if to be represented here. And although that was their motive in paying him three the population may not be in these par- months' salary. In regard to Mr. John ticular constituencies, the interests are Davies, I am glad indeed to congratu- there, and indeed I go farther and say late that gentleman. upon his success. the stuff is there that produces the revenue (Laughter on the Government benches.) for the country, namnely the land and the 1 am glad indeed. minerals. Honestly and fairly on this MR. REnsmnr: You cannot have read side we have given every possible con- the report. sideration to the occupants of the MR. T. 1'. QUINLANJ: I have read Ministerial benches to do something, since the report, and I am glad, because I treat the time they have occupied their present him as I treat every other man. I never positions. They came in on the distinct consider a man guilty until I am satis- understanding that they were going to fied he has lost his innocence; and I make disclosures, but they have signally adopted that course especially in this failed in everything. instance, where a man had served the MR. HopKINs: They have made them. country for 10 years ; and he would MR. QUINLAN: Inquiry into the never have served this country or ay cases of G. W. Davies and J. Davies other place and passed through so long a certainly is, I suppose, in their eyes a period without cornmitting some error, move in that direction; but they have great or small. I admit he has made failed in both instances. They have errors, and who would not have done so failed is so fax as G. W. Davies is con- under the circumstances, with the large cerned, that they made the appointment concern be had to control? There was 1930 No Coid/henee [ASSEMBLY.][SEBY] DbaeDebate, thirdhr day.ly an immense leap made at the time of the of by the Premier. I regret that after boom here, and Mr. John Davies was seeking the aid of a man in his (MLlr. Pen- abused from every quarter because he dieton's) position from another State, the could not find trucks for every member Premier, as he did last evening-though who was pulling the Government strings. he may not have used the word-made That was the reason the man was abused. accusations indicating that he did not He was made the buffer between the agree with that report. That is in Ministry and the public, and, as generally depreciation of a man who came here follows, give a dog a bad name and it competent, as he was, to give an honest sticks to him. He was called a tyrant. report, and I say it was unfair of the That name was given to him by every- Premier to make that reference. body. But what is the result to-day ? THE PREMIER: I said I was satisfied He has undergone a trying ordeal, and with the report. although he has not come out perfectly Mn. QUINLAN: Pardon me; the pure, helmas come out pure enough, in my newspapers do not say so, and I heard mind at any rate, to satisfy me he was you. With regard to the reorganisation only guilty of errors which all human of the civil service, we know full well the nature is liable to he guilty of. Government have (lone one little bit in Mu. GEORGE:- They want an angel. that direction. They have extended the Mn. O&.Ts: Black or white ? hours by half an hour. They know full Mu. GEoRGE: We art not taking well that this Rouse approved of a little black. longer time; and I see no reason what- Mu. QUINLAN: The proper course in ever why they should not have gone my opinion is either to at once make farther and have extended the time to compensation to that gentleman or else five o'clock. It was never intended by reinstate him. Probably it may be urged the House to apply the eight-hours by the talkative member for Mt. Margaret principle to the clerical staff. The words (Mr. Taylor) that it would not be were particularly described in the motion popular. Dispose of the popular idea. of the member for Subiaco (Mr. Daglish) Do the man Justice. He has been "where practicable." It is not practicable injured, then make it good by all means. to adopt the system in regard to the I trust my friend will do right and clerical steaff. justice to that man whom he has injured, LABOUR MAEMER: Yes; it is. perhaps not intentionally, because I have Mn. QUINLAN: My friend the Kini- no doubt he has been filled up with these ister for Works (H-on. W. Kingsmill) charges. There has been a report by a laughs, as he generally does:- he is so competent chairman of a board, which happy, I am glad to say. I am not hoard was as a matter of fact of the always laughing, because I feel serious Government's own constitution. Oe about matters. member was a f riend of the member for TEE PREMIER: You look it. East Frenmantle (Hon. J. J. Holmes), and MR. QUINLAN: I am. We know he was, I believe, supposed to have been too that while they dealt with the re- prejudiced; whilst another member was a. organisation of the civil service they gave friend of the Treasurer, and was sup- us to understand no requitals would be posed to have been prejudiced ; the other made. I will quote one instance at any member of the board being an inde- rate; not that of a very high official, but pendent person. Mr. Pendleton. What one instance with regard to an appoint- has been the result? Mr. Davies has ment in the police court. There is an come out of the ordeal. I do not see any officer named Robinson, who was recently traces of prejudice which I was given to gazetted in that department. He was understand existed in regard to the formerly clerk to the Minister for Lands, honour of these men who have tried him. who had a hotel in Coolgardie. That is It is an honest report. going outside what we understood they THE MINISTER FOR Wouxs: A damn- would do, and that is by this pure and ing report. conscientious Ministry I Ma. JA&coBy: You are damned by it. MESM B ER (referring to Hon. C. Mut. QUI.NLAN: It is an honest Sommiers, hearing the debate): The report, and one which was not approved Minister for Lands is blushing. Yo Confidence: [6 NOVEM13rula, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene: 6Nvmasa,190.1 third day. 1931

At 6'28, the SPEAKERg left the Chair. well that when he made that statement he had already the authority of Parlia- At 7'30, Chair resumed. ment to raise that amount, months ago; and therefore he was not justified in Ma. QUJINLAN (continuing): When laying against the Opposition a charge of we adjourned, I was referring to an having delayed the Bill, and of unneces- appointment recently made in the civil sarily causing a higher price to be paid service. My object in so doing was to for the loan. It may be argued-and I draw hon. members' attention to the fact believe the Minister has already used the that the civil service reform, promised so argument-that the appointment of the frequently during this session by the Agent General was made by the former present occupants of the Ministerial Government. That is so; but the benches, bas not been effected. They Treasurer knows full well that the emphasised the necessity for this reform, gentlemanl appointed was not by any especially in regard to appointments in means a financier, though he is in my the civil service; yet on so recent an opinion a very houest man - [THE occasion this appointment has been made. COLONIAL TREASURER:- Hear, hear)- I admit it is provided in the Act that if and is no doubt guided by his advisers. there be no person in the service of the If the London and Westmuinster Bank State capable of filling a vacancy, the erred in giving advice on this occasion, Government are entitled to go outside why did not the Government transfer the and to make the appointment; but in this business to some other quarterP We case that claim cannot be upheld; for the know that Queensland and Tasmania are reason that the appointee is performing able to raise their loans at better prices; the duties of an ordinary clerk. There and yet here, with the credit we have, are nio special qualifications required; and with our comparatively small indebted- therefore I contend that, the appointment ness, and with the fact that we are now not requiring a professional man, the part of the Comminwealtb--surely these Government went out of their way to are sufficient security to warrant our appoint the person to whom I have obtaining a Joan at a rate not higher thani referred. He may he ever 80 competenat that paid by Queensland or Tasmania, to for the position, and indeed I am led to say, the least. understand he is a good clerk; but suffice MR. GEORGE: We should, if we knew it to say we can judge of the influence bow to do it. brought to bear by one of the Ministry MR. QUI.NLAN: What is the resuIl? themselves in regard to that special We lose a, very large sum of money in appointment. There may he other cases that connection alone. I charge that with which I am not acquainted; but *against the present Ministry. They have with respect to Mr. Robinson, the late not shown their competence to deal clerk of the Minister for lands (Hon. C. specially with finance; and I think there Somnmers) when the Minister was in *are some members on this side who have business, his appointment to the service had financial experience, and who would does not smiell too sweetly. make a better bargain for the country MnR. DAGLIsH: What salary is he than the present Colonial Treasurer. getting? MR. TAY.LOR: Whom have you? Mn. QUTNLAN: The salary does not MRs. Q12INTAN: I need onily refer to concern me. I am. talking of the prin- a very recent interview with Sir Edward ciple, and of the motives which prompted Wittenoom, the late Agent General, who the appointment. We now come to the distinctly told his interviewer that he question of the raising of the loan. Some had never been consulted in the matter. weeks ago the Colonial Treasurer (Hon. Surely that is an instance which shows F. Illingworth) twitted members with something radically wrong with our the fact that the Opposition had de- financial advisers in Lonidon, when a. man layed the passing of the Loan Bill, who had for three years held the office of that, if it had passed sooner the Agent General, and with whom they had Government could have raised to better had considerable dealings, was in no way advantage one and a half millions of consulted ; and Mr. Wittenoom there money. Now, the Treasurer knows full implies as distinctly as he could that the 1932 .No Confidence. [ASSEMBLY.][SEBY) Debate,Dbae thirdhr day.a, loan was not floated to the best advan- the law and say that the Government tage.- should carry out every promise, but the THE Pnnun:. It was floated by Mr. Government have broken faith with the Lefroy, who was your man. country and the House. Numbers of Ma. QUINLAN : I have already stated promises were made, and are in black Mr. Lefroy's qualifications. He is an and white, promises made h)y the formner honest man, but not a financier. Administration, yet no provision has been THE Pan rsru - But you appointed made on the Estimates for carrying out him. the works, There are some new items on Ma. QUINLAN:- Mr. Lefroy is one of the Estimates which we have not heard the financial advifsers of the Government; of before, and I shall have occasion to the Colonial Treasurer here knew by the refer to one or two before the conclusion negotiations which were proceeding, the of my remarks, As to the Midland position of affairs; and the Treasurer Railway Company and the negotiations was the person to direct our agents in pending when the Government came into London to stay their bands for the office, I may say that the advice of the moment, or at any rate to put the loan Agent General was that the railway could in the market at a. price at least one be purchased for a sum of money not pound higher than that at which it was much over a million pounds. The Gov floated. And I am confident, judging by eminent knew that, yet the Colonial the gross amnount of the tenders received, Treasurer, on that notable trip, made that we should have had the loan at a some strange remarks. I do not know price similar to the prices realised by the what he had taken previous to his utter- other States. ances, but it was sufficient to carry away THE PRsEIER: You would not have his tongue, and to add on about £400,000 us dismiss Mr. Lefroy, would you? to the estimated value of the line. We MR. QUINLAN: It is no use the hon. know full well the position the company member's asking about Mr. Lef roy . Mr. are in now, and the treatment we are Lefroy is an honest mian. That is all receiving; and had it not been for the YOU Canl say for him, apart from his select committee which has been appointed experience- to inquire into the company's affairs, Ma. MooltanAD: A very good character we could have terminated the contracet at the present stage. because it has been broken times out MR. QUIN LAN: I should like very A number. Terminate the contract by much if the Premier would learn a little all means, but I do not want to take manners from the lesson hie was taught any unfair advantage of the company. last night b ,y the silence of those on the I would terminate the agreement, and Opposition side of the House during his give the company what is the full value speech. of the line. I will go a little farther, and Twn PR-EiRR.: I wish I had known it give them something extra to extinguish was a conspiracy of silence. I should them altogether. have "1drawn" some of you. THE PREmi.ER ; Not a one-sided Ma. QUINLAN: Possibly. You are arrangement! canning enough for anything. I have MR. QUINLA N: I now come to already pointed out that this appoint- another matter, and I shall quote the ment was made by a former Ministry. substance of a communication which was Mr. Lefroy is the right man in the right sent to the Treasurer. I wish to refer to place, because we want an honest man, the Mount Lawley Estate. The Trea- for we know -what can be done in regard Surer has61the Power, under the Munici- to transactions that go through the Agent palities Act, to create a new municipality. General's office, where there are large The petitioners in the case under notice commissions to be dealt with. I thiink complied with the Municipalities Act, so the appointment was an admirable one. far as a roads board was concerned, As to the Estimates, the Government and presented a petition to the Treasurer emphatically stated in the Governor's asking for a. muniicipality; and included Speech that they would carry out all the in the proposed municipality was the promuises of the former Administration. Mount Lawley Estate. The Mout I am not going to stick to the letter of Iawley Estate is pretty well known, No Confidence: [6 NOVMBE, 1901.] Debate, third dayj. 1933 because there are some peculiar trans- conclude is that the estate was going to aio n regad to the matter, before it be rated. The Minister asked the depu- parta'eca, parcel of the proposed tation to put their request. in writing: municipality. The petitioners asked for but I contend it was not within the power the inclusion of that estate in the munici- of the Minister to r-eceive the deputation, pality. On lst October a deputation and he was taking ain extreme step. The waited upon the Colonial Treasurer, and result will be a large loss annually to this ashortaccountof that deputation appeared new municipality, because they will lose in the newspapers. The object was to so much for water rates, and so much for ask that the Mount Lawley Estate the ordinary rates and taxes. There the might be excluded from this proposed fact remainis, and I say the case is municipality. Now the Municipal Act unanswerable. I give as my authority distinctly provides that in the case of a the section of the Acet which says- proposed new municipality, a counter- If within one month after the publication of petition can be received provided it is any Petition praying for the constitution of a signed by an equal number of persons to munizipiality, or the division or redivision or those who have signed the petition in the alteration or abolition of the divisions in favour of the municipality. I ask the any municipality, a counter petition, in accor- House to believe or disbelieve: is it dance with the provisions of this Act, signed by an equal or larger number of Persons possilble, where there are only two owners qualified to sign a like petition than have of an estate, that a sufficient number of signed the petition be presented, no proclama- names can be provided to counteract a tion shall be made on such petition. petition ? The Minister excluded that Every petition and counter petition shall be estate, which will be a direct loss addressed to the Governor and shall be left to the with the Minister which shall be deemted. the proposed municipality in regard to rates presentation thereof. and taxes. But the Minister went beyond The signatures to ay petition or counter his power, and this was brought to his petition shall be verified by solemn declaration notice. I will read to the House the made before any justice of the peace of some person signing the petition; that such declar- substance of the communication the ation shall be in the form or to the effect in Treasurer received :;- the second schedule hereto, and no petition or The deputation (October 1st), as far as counter petition shall be received by the Perth Roads Board were concerned. -as not minister unless the same be accompanied by a by authority of the board; and as to the declaration in accordance with the provisions residents on Location Z forming part of the of this section. deputation, there were no such residents on the location. A visit the day after the deputa- I appeal to the House to say whether it tion to Location Zirevealed no signs of water was within the province of the Colonial being laid on, no trace of residents or roads Treasurer to have gone so far; and even if being made. There were two or three roads he. possessed the prerogative which he being cleared only. The only buildings were assumed, be ought not to have caused about four specimens of the kerosene tin and calico architecture. Thus representations of thisgreatloss to the proposed municipality, deputation as to this is false in the extreme. by excluding the Mount ILawley Estate: The contention that the North Perth Roads the reason for doing so cannot be Board had not done anything for Location Z explained. My friend CMr. George) asks was absurd, as the location not being pre- who is interested in the Mount hawley viously under the board's control it was, and must have been, evident to the dullest Estate? I know that Mr. Robinson, of capacity that the board could not improve Messrs. Shell and Robinson, and Mr. property not under its control. The additional Copley are interested. I did not wish argument that the board would not in the to mention the names, but I have future was altogether beyond the deputation. been asked for them. [Ma. GAuiYEn That considerable expense had been incurred in connection with the proposed municipality interjected.] I was just coming to the as petitioned for. That the proposed exclusion bon. member. He may be able to would necessitate re-arrangement of wards, give the House some .explanation on and it was urged that the municipality as the point, becatuse he is agent for the prayed for should be ranted. proprietor, and he is the seventh Minister. I will quote the section of the Act, and I The hon. member wvill be able to tell us cannot see how it is possible for any to-night, for what reason the Mount explanation to be given why this estate Lawley Estate was excluded. I challenge was excluded. The only reason I can the Minister to give reasons to the House 19S4 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third dajj for the action he has taken. Now I come I MR. QUINLAN: Then perhaps the to another matter, and I will put it as a honmember knows all about it, and will question for the reason that where the re bable toeplain. The same Minister is smoke there is generally fire. I hope in his speech stated that he would prefer the Treasurer will be able to contradict -and mark you, I direct the attention of the statement which I make. I ask theI the House to the statement made by the Treasurer here, is it a fact that he is the Minister for Lands, whose duty it is to owner of the Kalorama, Park, and that be protect the lands of the country and has made or at the present time is what we produce-" to give us more making application, or through his instra- moth and cheap fruit in preference to no mentality' negotiations are being made, moth and prohibitive prices." Here is a for a loan of £5,000 on the Kialorama gentleman who ought to look after the property, from the Savings Bank? If lands of the country, endangering the that be the case, then I Say the Govern- interests of the country by making a ment have no authority to advance £5,000 statement of that kind. These are cases on that bare land. Go to any financial that should be brought home to Ministers. institution and ask them to lend you In regard to the Colonial Treasurer, hie £5,000 on land which is not producing said he believed in his purity and con- anything, and you will not get the money. scientiousness. I shall be glad if the hon. member will THE PREMIER: He said so. deny that statement, and I will accept Mu. QUINLAN: Yes; he said So. his denial. THE PREMIER: That is all. THE COLONIAL TREASURER: I am1 not Mit. QUINLAN: Then it cannot be the owner. true, I suppose? Now, in respect to a Mu. QUINLAN: You may not be the question which has to do with the owner, but what about the £5,000 ? I Southern Districts, known as the South- come to another point, with regard to the West drainage scheme - Minister for Lands; and I am aware this MR. GEORGE : A very good scheme, too. afternoon the member for Dundas (Mr. MR. QUINLAN: I believe the Minister Thomas) has given notice of a series of for Lands has a block of about 2,500 questions in regard to the Londonderry acres in that locality; and I am informed Darn scandal. That is the best way to on 'very good authority - otherwise I put it. I know that sounds peculiar, but would not make the statement here-that the Speaker is aware that I am quite he sent a surveyor to the South-West to right in the English T am using. The survey a route for the purpose of draining Speaker knows I am referring to the that area. That surveyor returned with Londonderry Dam. lam given to under- a report and a suggested route for the stand that the concessionaire for the proposed drain. The Minister asked him: concern: out of which large sums of was it not possible to go from another money have been made, is a brother-in- direction- which would, no doubt, have law of the Minister for Lands. That served the Minister's land: that is how it may or may not be so. If it is the case, was given to me, at any rate. The then the utterances of the Minister for surveyor replied, "If you will put it in Lands in Coolgardie, on 81st May of this writing that Tam to go and make another year, are strange; because lie distinctly survey, I will do it." He was taken off said, "They (speaking of the Govern- that work, and anothersurve 'yor was sent to ment) had no sisters, cousins and aunts the same locality; with what result 1 do to look after, and as Mr. Jenkins had not know. Suffice it to say, however. said, there would be no backstairs; influ- that the first surveyor reported to the ence." We have been told that the Minister that the route being through Ministry were placed in office to clean hilly land, he was unable to design out and disgorge, and tell us what has a channel to run in the direction happened. I ask them to clean out their desired by the Minister. I leave it for own homes before they attack other some of the hon. gentlemen who represent people's. the Minister for lands in this House to THE MINISTER FOR WORKuS: Iamn the answer the charge. I have been given person responsible for the Londonderry the information by one who is competent Dam- to give it. No Confidence. [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] Debate, third (lay. 1935

THE MINISTER FOR MIXES: Has the where it would serve the most people, Minister for Lands Spent any money at where it would do the most good, namely all down there? on the Coode Street jetty channel. How- MR. QUINLiAN : I never answer inter- ever, I have no doubt the matter is jections. capable of explanation. Possibly the THE PREMIER: Was the information member for Albany (Mr. Gardinei) will given you by a, disloyal public servant? answer mne on this point also. He, being (Laughter.] the seventh Minister, I feel sure will be MR. QUINLiAN: With regard to the able to give us the information. Kurrawang syndicate, which has already MR. GARDIN ER: Do not ask me for been mentioned so frequently, and in the information. Ask the member for Cock- references to which my friend the leader burn Sound (Mr. McDonald), who intro- of the Opposition has been concerned, I duced the deputation. believe the Kuirrawang syndicate had MR. QUINLAN: Generally, so far as from the former Government a concession this motion is concerned, I contend that to carry their line to a certain distance. the country is in sympathy with it. We For that concession or permission the know it has been argued by the Ministry prviu Government have been much times out of number that' they represent codmed. population. [MINISTERIAL MEMBERS: MR. TAYLOR: Quite right, too. Hear, hear.] The population has not MR. QUINLAN: The syndicate have increased to such an extent on the gold- had that permission extended since the fields that other parts of the State are not present Ministry took office. In this to be considered; and although various connection, I need only quote the words constituencies represented by certain mem- of the Minister for Lauds, who Said " he bers may not have much population, understoodthat thecompany bad put down nevertheless they have the interests which, 76 chains of railway beyond the 42-Mile, as I said before, provide the revenue of and had cleared another mile." This is the State. the concession which received so much condemination at the hands of the present MER. RESIDE: What are the interests? Government! From the circumstance MR. HAaSTT: What interests ? that the syndicate have been permitted to MR. QUIN LAN;: It has been frequeutly extend their line, and from the comipii- urged in the course of this debate that mentary references to them by the we on this (Opposition) side are the Minister for Lands, it is evident tha t the remnants of the old Forrest Ministry. present Administration have learned to THE PREMIER: Old Forrest party. appreciate the efforts of the syndicate. MINISTERIAL MEMBERS: Party. I quote for the purpose of asking, if the MR. QUINLANT: I contend we are permission or concession to the syndicate nothing of the kind. 'There are on this was such a bad thing, and if the previous side of the House two hon. members who Government were to be condemned for have been in the Forrest Ministry for a granting that permission or concession, term; but we here, generally, are a why did the present Ministry agree to new party, newly elected. [Ministerial a proposal in any way to extend the evil? laughter.] Although there is nothing to One other matter I desire to bring to the be ashamed of, by any means, in being attention of the House is an item on the connected with the old Forrest party- Estimates, namely the item for the indeed, it is rather something to be proud Melville Park road. The residents of of, in view of the iong years of service of South Perth have agitated for a long that party, and the ordeal it went through, time for the building of a channel towards seeing the opportunity which the present the Coode Street jetty; and I believe Premier has had for making disclosures certain pro mses have been made in without being able to make any-I respect of that work. At any* rate, this contend, nevertheless, we are not here as road, which according to the Estimates remnants of the old Forrest Ministry, is to cost about £21,000, passes through but as the chosen representatives of the &.district with scarcely any residents, people. As regards the threat of a and leads to Melville Park. I contend dissolution, let the Premier, if he can, get that the money should have been spent a dissolution, and let him find what will 1986 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day. be the result in regard to the return of agent. I believe the North Perth Roads members. Board and the proprietors of the Mount MR. GEORGE : He would not get back TLawley Estate protested against inclusion himself ! in the North Perth municipality from the MR. QUINLAN: Would he not find beginning to the end of the transaction. the election disastrous in his own The inference to be drawn from the bon. particular case? [OPPOSITION MEMBERS: member's remark is that because I sit Hear, bear.] The poser for eight-hours ! behind the Government, £21,000 has been The labouring man's friend! I appeal put on the Estimates for Melville Park. to anyone who knows the lion, member MRt. QUINLA1N: True! Quite true! as I have known him, all my lifetime, to MRt. GARDINER: My friend the say whether the Premier ever had any member for South Perth (Mr. Gordon), sympathy with or any leaning towards my friend the member for Oockburn labour in his whole life, it is impossible Sound (Mr. McDonald), the chairman to maintain it: he has never had any of the East Fremantle Roads Board, the leaning whatever towards the workers. chairman of the Melville Park Roads He has been provided for all his life; Board, the mayor of Victoria Park, the and here he is now, suppo]-ted by the president and a, member of the Canning so-called Labour party. Roads Board, certainly formed part Mn. RESIDE: So-called? [Laughter.] of the deputation which waited on the MR. QUINLAN: My friends on that Minister for Works in connection with (Labour) bench laugh. the matter. The member for South Perth MR. TAYLOR: I should think so. was present and expressed himself as in MR. QUITNLAN: Let me ask them, favour of the construction of that parti- do they consider the member for Plan- cular road, provided that the revenue of tagenet (Mr. Erassell) a Labour member, the South Perth muaicipalitv were not Bad do they consider the member for depleted in order to build thie road. I Subiaco (Mr.Dfaglish) a Labour member? believe I am perfectly right in that asser- MR. DAGLISET: Cerlainly! tion, and I think the member for South MR. GEORGE: Certainly not! Perth will bear me out in it. I am sorry ME. RESIDE: Most decidedly we do. the member for Cockburn Sound is not The member for Subiaco says so'himself. here, because it was at his suggestion [Several interjections.]* that I formed a member of that deputa- MR. QUINLjAN: If the hon. members tion, representing the Melville Park on that (Labour) bench were so fond of Roads Board. I live at Melville Park, Labour, they would not he here to-night. and have been intimately associated with [Laughter.] bringing the Melville Park Roads Board LABOUR MEMBER: That is the hardest into existence. That is the explanation knock we have had yet. of the transaction. A thousand pounds Tn COLONIAL TREASURER: Labour was put on the Estimates for that is fond of them, you know. reason-to, continue the Fremantle road MR. QUINLAN: I say emphatically, so that it should join the other road we hero are not the remnants of any which branches out from Victoria Park, party; or, if I may so express it, I will say thus making a complete circle of the road we are one whole piece (looking towards from Victoria. Park into Fremantle, and Mr. Piesse). providing practically two roads from MR. J. GARDINER (Albany): Before Fremantle to Perth. That is the explana- I start with the serious business of speak- tion. Having disposed of the serious ing on the important motion now before charge levelled against me, and feeling the House, I should just like to refer to myself lightened-as I am sure the mem- the beautifully delivered attack of the ber for Toodyay (Mr. Quinlan) must lion, member for Toodyay (Mr. Quinlan).- have felt lightened when he had delivered The matters referred to in that attack him self of it - I shall endeavour to were introduced in a very nice manner get on with the serious business of indeed to the notice of the House by the the country. And I say, in common with hon. member. First of all, lie referred to every other member of the House, that an estate called the Mount Lawley Estate, I welcome this want of confidence motion. for which, in my business capacity, I am [MRi. TAYLOR: Hear, hear.] The posi- No Confldene: [6 NOVFEBR, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1937 tion of tbose of us who have sat behind 'honoursable,' and Pennefather is not the Government has been discreditable amongst them. Now, I did not think from a constitutional standpoint. [MR. that of George Lemke: I did not, indeed. QUINLAN: Hear, bear.] We are accused I did not think he would be so mean as by the member for Toodyay, or rather this. It gives some colour to the the Ministry are accused, of sitting here things that were said in the House the because they want to keel) their salaries other night, about his kitting his little of a thousand pounds a year. Another personal feelings interfere in regard to the Opposition member, however, has accused appointment of Mr. Pennefathier." [ felt Ministers of continually taunting bon. a little indignant at this. I will say this members opposite by asking to be turned for the Premier. I know his faults out. What consistency is there in the possibly just as well as most men know attacks of the Opposition ? I was much them; but I do not think littleness is one amused by the speech of the member for of them. On meeting the Premier I said Northami (Hon. G. Throssell). The to him, "Look: I do not like what Mr. member for Northam is a man whom Throssell has been telling me about your we all respect, whom we all love. We omitting to recommend Mr. Pennefather love him so much that we allow him to for the retention of the title of ' honour- believe that he is constantly fooling us. able."' The Premier said," "Why, what He might, however, remember Lincoln's nonsense are you talking? Come along adage, "You can fool some of the people and look through the file." I went and some of the time, but you cannot fool all lookedl at the file, and I discovered that the people all the time." Possibly the this man who left behind him the mes- message which the member for Northam sage, "To thine own self be true," did left on his desk when he gave up office what ? Almost the last thing he did may be within the recollection of bon. before quitting office was to recommend members. He left this message for the the appointment of Mr. LefrToy and Mr. present Premier to read: "To thine own Randell, and to leave Mr. Pennefather out. self be true." The bon. gentleman took As soon as the Premier entered, what did every possible precaution that all the he do ? He recommended that Mr. pressmen should see that magnificent 'ihrossell should be allowed to retain the sentiment. Then, in order to show that title of "honourable." On another refer- he was quite capable of practising what ence to the file he found Mr. Pennefathar hie preached, lie instantly sat down had not been recommended, and like the and wrote to the railway employees, man he is he instantly wired or wrote, " You have proved your case uip to some time in July-that was before ever the hilt." That sentiment, however, was this discussion took place-recommending not for the pressmen: it was for his Mr. Pennefather, as aill the rest of the successors. Next, what do we find? We members of the Ministry had been find this gentleman who leaves such mag- appointed. That is the gentleman (Hon. nificent phrases behind for the edification G. Throssell) who stands up in his place of his successors, going about with the to-night and accuses the Premier of pass- resignation of Sir Alexander Onslow in ing Mr. Pennefather. his pocket, and yet refusing to appoint Mla. GEoRGE: What was the appoint- Mr. Pennefather to the position of Judge. ment of Mr. Ramdell for? [MINISTERIAL MEMBRERs: Hear, hear.] MR. GARDINER: Ilam only speaking Not only that, but the bon. member-the of what was brought directly under my country may just as well know this, and notice by Mr. Throssell himself. I had certain; members of this House may just every right to feel indignant with the as well know it-the day after the receipt member for Northam when I ascertained of a telegram notifying to the people of what were the facts. It must appear to this State that several gentlemen who this country that we are certatin! v not were lately Ministers of the Crown here worthy of the trust of the country. It is had been allowed to retain the title of said that Nero committed a crime when "hbonour-ble," button-holed me and said, he fiddled while Rome was burning; and " Look: here are several members of the I say unhesitatingly that such crime, if it old Government, who have served this were a crime, sinks into insignificance country, allowed to retain the title of beside the action of this Parliament, if 1938 Xo Confidence; [ASSEMBLY,][A EML.Deathiday Debate, aird day. we are willing to permit private ambition That is as much the province of or personal pique to outweigh the desire His Majesty's Opposition as of His that there is in this country for wise and Majesty's G-overnment; and every man just measures, good administration, and who fails in that is a traitor to his a. thorough purging and clearing of the country every time. We are asked civil service of the State. We know we to throw these measures practically have a country second to none in the under the table, in order that ambitions world, and all that it is crying out for is may be gratified; in order that a mucre wise and just administration; more for force of circumstances, nothing more and administration than anything else, for we nothing less, should be allowed to alter are told : the destiny either of the Ministry or the For forms of Government let fools contest: country. I ask the sensible men of the Whate'er is best administered is best. Opposition whether these are reasons that I feel sure this country will honestly they feel would justify us in going to the indorse that desire on the part of those country, for changing this Government ? of us who want to see good and just You have just as much right to answer administration. We have a session partly the country as we have in that particular wasted; we have devoted a large amount respect. We have been taunted with of time here to the consideration of trying the long-suffering patience of the abstract questions, and probably in no Opposition. Just let us analyse this par- Assembly have abstract questions been ticular statement and put it under the more frequently debated than in this magnifying glass of fact, if you like. House during the present session. But Take Hansard, and look up the abstract that has gone past to a certain degree, motions that have been proposed in this and we are now down to the standard of House, and you can easily ascertain wanting to do business. Members of where the opposition to the Government this House, some of them, have been carrying on the business of the country earnest to do business ever since they has come from. In the first instance, we came here; other members have not had the Add ress-in -reply occupying so-me been so earnest in that desire; but whether six days, then we had the railway we are for or against the doing of busi- strike, then we had the Royal Visit, and ness, what is facing us now is this, that all these count for a certain amount of now we are down to business, -now we wasted time. Then we come to the have the Estimates to consider, now we abstract motions. Probably some mem- have the Conciliation and Arbitration bers remember that the first abstract Bill in Committee, now we have the Public motion we had was on the question of Service Bill in Committee, and other and Parliamentary trips, which was intro- lesser measures of importance in an duced by the member for the Murchison advanced stage, we are practically asked (Mr. Nanson). You all remember the to throw the whole of the result of this eloquence, you all remember the taunts session into the waste-paper basket, in thrown out by the member for tbe Murchi- order to gratify the ambitions of the son against the iniquity of Parliamentary Opposition side of the House. What trips, and if 'you peruse the daily papers else have we to do? We, the legislators, you may also fin that on these Parlia- are practically to go to the country and mentary trips ever since, the name of Mr. say we are unfit to carry on the business J. L. Nauson is really absent. Then we of the country, and consequently another had the Newspaper Libel and Regis- party in exactly the same circumstances tration Bill introduced here and discussed will be trying to carry on what we have with much warmth said much innuendo. been unable to do. And why P If there We have also had an inquiry into the were the slightest tinge of patriotism in treatment of the aborigines, introduced this House, I venture to say the House by thie member for Roebourne (Dr. Hicks) would be a huge committee trying with - a perfectly legitimate introduction of a its intelligence-I believe we all possess motion of very great interest indeed in some degree of intelligence-to do its this country; and there was every justi- level best not to block the business of the fication for it. Then we have the Police coun try, but to assist in giving to the Amendment Bill, introduced by the mnem- country wise, just, and good measures. ber for York (Mr. Monger). Then we ATo Con dence. [6 NovEmBEEL, 1901.1 NoDebate,onfdene; 6NVEMEB,190.] tkird day. 1939 have the Collie Coalfields railway to when he has got up in his chair, to go construct, introduced by the member for out of this House in a body. the South-West Mining district (Mffr. MR, J.&cosv: A -very small body, Ewing). Then we have a motion in- MR. GARDINEIR: I was very amused troduced by the member for Tooday (Mr. to notice the hush which was introduced Quinlan) regarding the proceeds of land so happily the other night by the Oppo- sales, on which there was another very sition. It was a great pity that they necessary discussion. Then we have the did not introduce the policy of hush so appointment of the Judges introduced far as the member for the Murray is con- with a fair amount of warmth by my cerned, hon. friend who is absent, the member MRt. GEORGE: Perhaps the policy- of for North Fremacntle (Mr. Doherty). "hush money " may he more convenient Then we have the motion to inquire into for you. the duties on cattle or something like Mn. GAERDTNER: I think that is that, on which a select committee was rather an imputation. afterwards elected. Then we have adver- THE Srsnnsn:- I id not hear what tising in the Sunday Times, brought the hon. member said. forward. by Mr. Monger; then we have Ma. GARDINER: Very well., sir. the blackmailing of a Judge, intro- MR. Gone ax: I will repeat it if you duced by the member for the Murray wish me. I said that perhaps the prin- (Mr. George). Then we have the dis- ciple of "Ihush money " may be more con- cussion of the Federal Tariff, introduced venient for the hon. -member. I do not by my hon. friend the member for Cool- know if it is out of order: if it be, I gardie (M1r. Morgan s)--a discussion that withdraw. was prolonged to a great extent by, my MR. GARDINER: The interjection friend the member for the Murchison (Mr. of the member for the Murray carries as Nanson). Then, in addition to that, if much sense to the country as very fre- that be not sufficient apology to the quently his speeches do. We will let it country for this Governent not being go at that. It is a policy of hush, that allowed to proceed with the business of is the mainspring of this motion against the country, I may mention that the the Government; a policy of hush. They member for the Murray occupies, I think, say, "No; we do not want the people to a 23rd portion of the whole of the know how the governmnent of this country Hansard of this country, embodying the has hitherto been carried on." That is proceedings of both Houses. We have the position, and they want to turn this heard the member for the Murray, and Government out at a very critical time, every man who hears him gives him so that this policy of hush may be more credit for a certain amount of sound effectually carried out. We have a right solid sense. Outside this House he is to ask ourselves what the country has to reognised as a shrewd business man. gain by the change. I take the Min- Before I came here a man said, " He is istry, and I will let any member of the inside a different man from what he is House take the Ministry, and I say they outside the House." We have heard are fairly representative of the intefli- him talk on every subject. I have never gence of the House. I think the Ministry heard a subject on which he has not fairly representative of the ability of the spken, and he generally speaks 15 or 20 House, and I certainly say they are minutes:- the first 14 or 15 minutes may fairly representative of the honesty of be applied to the Tires Act, the Police the House. [Laughter on Opposition Amendment Bill, or the Conciliation benches.] 1 admit I should have qual1i- measure, and in the last two minutes he fied that only by comparison with the generally gives a certain amount of transcendent ability in that paLrticular sense, but by that time the House has possessed by the Opposition. The become wearied of him. We on this present Ministry are to be replaced side have protested in every way possible by whatP Fist of all they are to aanst waste of time by the member for be replaced by a Ministy composed I the Murray; we have interjected; we expect of the ability of that side of the have got up, and we have been absolutely House. We have been told that it is of rude enough to him and to you, sir, a very much higher standard than what 1W4 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day. wve have here. We will accept that on *Australia. On the next day he told the trust, but probably we will try it, and House that he took great credit for will just see whether that is sufficient. *having ordered rolling-stock in advance The speculative ability of that side of the *without the authority of Parliament. House is sufficient to justify this House The next day, he told us that all rolling- in the eyes of the country in turning out stock was being properly repaired. If this Ministry? We have the leader of ever the hon. member canl keep his ideas the Opposition (Hon. F. H. Piesse). long enough in one position to have them Other members have deplored the intro- photographed, I should like to have a duction of the personal element into this photograph of them. Then, possibly, I debate, and have apparently introduced shall be able to understand what he that element. I amnot going todo that. means. There is never any cohesion in I am only going to attack the member ihis ideas; and I have tried in vain to for the Williams in his Parliamentary follow him right away through. And I capacity. say, too, that I do not blame the hon. MR. CoNr~oR: What about the general Imember so strongly as that report blames policy ? him. I say the General Manager was to MR. GARDflWER I beg to remind a large extent more culpable than the the hon. member, as I reminded the ex-Coinmissioner of Railways, behind House a little while ago, of the course I whom the General Manager shielters him- intend taking with regard to the member self. But I cannot forget that at this for East Kimberley (Mr. Connor). When particular time, during the last two years I come up through Katanning, Ilam proud of the management of the member for the to think that this State owns citizens like Williams, the hon. member was suffering the Piesse Brothers. I have not one word from a form of psychic disease which I to say of the private character of the mem- believe is vulgarly known as "swelled ber for the Williams; in fact, I respect head;" and the consequence was that his energy, and I respect his enterprise. whenever the General Manager wanted I say he is a marvellously good farmer, to carry out any of his ideas to fruition, and that is paying him a very great com- he mere]l'y pressed the vanity button of pliment ; but wvhen it comes to a question the member for the Williams, and the of his political ability. I much regret that figure worked. I venture to say that I cannot give him that praise. I say it very materially accounts for the blame is with questionable taste, in view of the now being thrust upon the shoulders decision of tbe Davies board of inquiry, of the ex-Commissioner of Railway s, that the member for the Williams dares which blame properly belonged to to move a vote of want of confidence in the General Manager. [MxNTRsnnx the present Government. Whatever that MEmBERs: Hear, bear.] Regarding the report does for John Davies, there is not accusations now before dile House, let any the slightest doubt that it casts a grave reader turn up Hansard, and he will find suspicion on the administration of the the accusations are just a repetition of member for the Williams in his former what cropped. up two or three years ago. capacity as Commissioner of Railways. It is strange, too, that while we do not I said, and so did the member for North meet with the Kurrawang syndicate, we Fremantle (Mr. Doherty) when this case do meet with Millar Bros. and W. N. of John Davies first cropped up in this Hedges with wonderful regularity. We House, that so far as the member for the meet them there, and many members - Williams was concerned, he was equally and I think I may include the member culpable with the General Manager in for the Murray (Mr. George)-were very the maladministration of the railways. uarticular, and wanted to know why We shall see if we can follow him in his Millar Bros. and W. N. Hedges were at defence of the railway management. I that time getting concessions. But there have taken the statements of the member they are ;and the member for the for the Williams for the last three years, Murray and others will remember that and have honestly tried to understand when those charges were brought up, what was his railway policy. On one there was a little thing known as the day he told this House we bad the best- Seabrook Battery. There was an instance equipped and best-managed railways in where the Seabrook Battery (or water) No Confidence. [6 NovumBFR, 1901.] NoDebate,oi~dens; 6 ovnsnathird 191j day. 1941

Company, whatever it is called, was criticising the actions of the present allowed to get into the debt of the Gov- Government in their suspension of the ernment to the extent of £3,000 or General Manager. Then we take the £24,000 for freight; and what happened? railway administration as a whole. We First of all, I should like to know how it have been told by the er-Commissioner is some people can get into debt with the that by the action of the present Com- Railway Department, while other people missioner in suspending one important of equal reputation have to pay spot officer, the whole of the working of the cash. railways has become disorganised. In MRt. G:EORGE: The man who could my speech on the Address-in-reply, I explain that is dead. pointed out that at one time there were Ma. GARtDLNER: Welt, I do not absent from the State the General want to attack a dead man, seeing that I Manager, the Chief Traffi Manager, the am dealing with the testimony of a living Engineer for Existing tines, and two management, or what is supposed to be other important officers. The whole of such testimony. But what happenedP these men were out of the State at When the department found they were once. Now I say, would any man in in a hole, they said: "These people have this House having a turnover of one some trucks; " and they, the department, and a quarter millions, permit everyone sent up their engineer, and be valued in the managerial department of his those trucks at £40 each: the General business to be out of the State at Manager and the then Commissioner once ? The fact in itself brings into the promptly purchased them at £90. minds of hon. members this thought: HoN. F. H. Passn: They did not. " Well, if all those officers could be out of the State at once and the railways Mn. GARD INER: Well, there is the we not get rid of record in Hattsard. Look it up and see still go on, why should if that is not so. some of them P" [LABOUR MEMBERS : Hear, hear.] Again I would put it to ME. GEORGE: You are hardly correct the House:- we can cleaLrly show that so in your facts. far as the leader of the Opposition is MR. G-ARDINER: That is what concerned, we can gain nothing in Hansard says. Then we come to the administration by making him the head Ice Company frauds. Does any hon. of the Government.; and now let us see if member say there was not justification, we can gain anything in legislation. And after the revelation of those ice frauds, first of all, we know that the tendency of for some very stringent measures being Australia especially is towards demo- taken with regard to the management of cracy. Now let us ask, what chance has the railways? [TAcsounB Mnrysun: Of ithis country of democratic rule under the course there was.] Wouldi any member member for the WilliamsP [THE Mis- of this Route-and there are some of TER FOR MINES: Buckley's.] Is there them with big interests-have stood in any ? Some members, notably the mem- his private business such a revelation her for the Swan (Mr. Jacoby), are without calling somebody to account? adherents of th e member for the Williams Why, I say if nothing else justified the because the latter is a democrat. The suspension of the General Manager, it member for the Swan-in a, speech to was undoubtedly justified by these ice which he has frequently referred memn- frauds. hers of this House, a speech, I say, MR. JACOBY: You did not make that that has in it the elements of a statesmani, charge against him. a speech that is -no discredit to the mem- M.R. GA.RDIBER: I am not saying ber for the Swan-says this: what the Government should have done; To make the country an up-to-date, demo- and I am not speaking with the bias of cratic one, it would be necessary to institrute an advocate, theprinciple of one-man-one-vote; and he Mn. MOORHEAD. It looks very like hope within the nest twelve months to see such a provision on the statute book of MR. GARDINER- No. I am Speak- Western Australia. ing as I have every justification for MR. JA.conr:' It will be there, too. peaking, as a member desirous of Mn. Rormie: Hold on a6bit. 1942 No Confidence; . [ASSEMBLY.)ASML. Debate,dttiddy third day.

MR. GARDINER: This is his apology MR. JACOBY. You want Piesse on the for the democratic view of one-man-one- railways. vote MINSTRIL MEMB3ERS: No, no! Under existing circumstances, if a man had Mn. GARDINER: And was it not an acre of round in 50 different electorates, another of the undercurrents in the he would be entitled to 50 votes;- and yet the House, to say the W.A.G.R. Association Man Who had 500 acres in one electorate had rule the Gov- only one vote. were not to he allowed to erment? Was it not? Let members Remarkable, is it not? Here is what who recorded their votes on that question the hon. member finally says . - be honest to themselves, and say that I He felt strongly on the question of alien am speaking what is exactly true. labour, because he held that white labour Ma. JAcour: We voted aainst the could do all the work that was required in strike; not against the Railway Associa- Australia, It was necessary for a candidate to look around and judge who would make the tion. best Premier for the next Parliament. He Ma. GARDINER.: I am saying what would wait until Mr. Piesse had announced was the undercurrent. The member for his platform at Xatanning; and if his plata- East Perth (Hon. W. H. James) has form was sufficiently democratic, he would been assailed because of the action he has support him. taken with regard to the Conciliation and Now I will give the House an idea of the Arbitration Bill. I say from what T democratic member for the Williams. know of the workers of this State, they Here is one month's record - would rather accept injustice from the Ap. JACOBY: Not a bad prophecy, member for East Perth than expect was it ? justice from the member for the Wil- Mn. GARDINiER: Here is one liams. [Orr'OSxTrowf MEMBERS: Oh1, month's record of the votes of the oh 1] But why have not hon. mem- democratic member for the Williams. bers the courage of the opinions they Hle was against the abolition of plural then expressed ? I say the member voting:- the member for the Swan was in for the Williams can never he taken as favour of it. He was against the appoint- an authority on the feeling of the ment of working nen. as justices of the W.A.G.R. Association, seeing that he peace; he was in favour of the amendling went out of power because he would not Bill for the restriction of immigration- recognise them. Now he accuses the practically a Bill in favour of the Government side of the House on tis importation of coloured lahbour; he was very point, and poses as an authority on also in favour of coloured labour. That the wishes of the association. is the Leadler whom the member for the How. F. H. PIESsan: I have always Swan selects as being a, leader of been fair. democracy. Mit. GARDITNER: I hope that I have HON. F. H. PIRuse: Can you prove been fair, anad I shalfl read this to show these statements? that I have been fair. MR. GARDINER: If you turn up How. F. H. P:nsss: If I make a, Hansard,you will find them there. promise I fulfil it. If I promise justice, How. F. H. Fjizsa: Turn them up. I fulfil that. MR. GARDTINER: I will give you the MR. GARDINER:- You are too good pages of the volume of ffansard. Next for this world, evidently; you are too good we come to the West Australian Gov- to lead a Government. In order to show ernment Railways &ss;ociation, and the that he is not the authority on this ques- Conciliation and Arbitration Bill as it tion that he poses to be, let us see what affects the railway service. Now that is the secretary pro tern. of the Boilermakers' a very nice political cry; for political Association says. This letter was pub- reasons, it is all veryV well to use it; but lished in the West .Australian or the what was the feeling of the House at the Morning Herald of October 3Jst. time of the late strike. Were there not Seeing a classification in your paper ema- nating from tbeW.A.G.R. Associaton, in which two predominant feelings in this House: boilermakers are included, I am directed by one, that it was necessary to have peace the executive of that society to inform you on these railways- that we are not represented in that body, and No Confidence. [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.1 NoDebate,onfdene; 6 ovEBERthird 1914 day. 1943 that none of our members belong to it. Con- moment appreciate this eleventh-hour sequently, we deny their ability to classify us, sympathy from the member for the or, if having the ability, we deny their right to interfere in matters affecting our members Williams, so far as his conduct in .and our trade. In conclusion, I. may state regard to the association is concerned. that our members are unanimously of opinion Let us see if we cannot face this that they will be able to manage any matters railway question, Here is the posi- that affect their trade and interests with- tion of the railways. The cost of out the intervention of any outside body. Thanking you in anticipation for the insertion working is increasing abnormally; every- of the above-Yours, etc., G. Lurr, secretary body will admit that. If we take into ro torn. consideration the different systems of the Fremantle, October 17, States we find ourselves now rapidly That simply means that there are a lot of overhauhung. in the cost of working, members who want to belong, not to the that of Tasmania. Tasmania previously W.A.G.R. Association, but to the Boiler- was the highest; now we are making makers' Association. Western Australia the highest, and we MR. GEORGE: This Bill does not do find as the result, according to the this, Colonial Treasurer, last year, after pro- MR. GARDINER: I beg the hon. viding for sinking fund and interest, memnber's pardon. We now have two there was an absolute loss of £21,598 on associations: the Engine-drivers1 Associa- the working of the railways for the year. tion, which was registered and saved the The Loan Bill provides for an extra country from a very great calamity, and expenditure of something lik-e 95,000 on according to what I stated here equal the railways, much of which will not be fairness should he given to these people's productive, and the hon. member for contention. They want to remain a North Fremantle (Mr. Doherty) in my separate society. Therefore, what is there estimation made the speech of the House in this political red-herring which is being when dealing with the railway question, drawn across the Conciliation and Arbi- and clearly showed that as soon we begin tration Bill? I went down and consulted to add this on to the already large cost of the members of the Railway Association: our railways, instead of having a profit I got 60 of them together. I did not every year we shall hatve a, very large hesitate to read to them the amendment loss indeed. We have also to consider I proposed to introduce into the Bill. I that unless we are very caref ul, this the told them if there was a man amongst greatest earning power of this State will them who broke the law he would be return us a very great loss. We, for liable to im prisonment for 12 months. I some five or six years. are supposed to told them this to their faces. You know have made a nominal profit of £678,000 the amendment which is standing in my on the working of the railways; but that name to Clause 108: it is as follows-. has been made at the expense of our roll- Provided that any union of railway servants, ing stock, and now to- day we find wc have in the event of a dispute with the Commis- to replace the rolling stock; consequently sioner, failing to avail itself of the Arbitration we never had a profit. That profit wasam Court to settle such disptuteitshall1 be unlawful fictitious one, and very careful manage- for any railway employee, either directly or ment would have made provision for the indirectly, to do or advise the doing of any- reinstatement thing of the nature of a strike, or lockout, or of the rolling-stock, keep- of s6 suspension, or discontinuance of employ- ing it in thorough repair. It must be ment or work. forced on the House that we must give up (a.) No person shall urge, assist, or advise, the control of the railways so far as or incite any railway employee Parliament is conerned. They must be affected to do any act, manner, or removed entirely from political influence. thing forbidden by the last preced- The railways are too large an asset for us clause. Any person so doing Zi sL be guilty of an offence against to have messed about by Ministers;,'who this Act, and shall be liable to a may be wise and just. (Opposition penalty not exceeding £100 or 12 laughter.) I am not wishing to make months' imprisonment with hard the slightest accusation against the labour- member for East Fremantle. We are I bad the courage of my opinion on this. Ionly trying to reform the bad manage- I do not think that these people for a ment of a previous Commissioner: do 1944 NO Conf~deiwe: [ASSElMBLY.] Debate, third day. not make any mistake about that. be represented on this side, carrying with There is very grave cause for the it the support of the people of the House to tackle this difficulty' and ee country." We can just imagine, if there that we have appointed at comnmis- was a chsage, we should see the present sioner-never mind what we pay him: I Opposition in the same difficulty the do not care if we pay him X1,000, X2,000, Government are in to-day. There are or £65,000 a year so long as we get a good bound to be ten applicants for the five maun. We cannot afford to have the portfolios; therefore, the five disappointed railway question a bone of contention men will then be seated with us as between parties in the House. There is independents. Is there anything in this too much depending on the railways in motion to 'justify the political turmoil, this country for them to be made a mere to justify the stoppage of the measures political machine. Therefore get the best before the House, to justify going to possible man we can, and give lim a fair the country, to justify anythingr Take show; put him outside the influence and the lowest, or the highest, possible control of Parliament; pay him well, ground: has there been anything in the see that he does his work well ; and if we conduct of this Ministry, so far as honest have a really good commissioner, there intentions are concerned, to justify that will be no loss of 8,500 sleepers on one side of the House sending us (hut? I account, there will be no Seabrook appeal to members whom I know to be battery business, no Ice Company frauds thoughtful members, I appeal to mem- or 40-knile shunts, there will be' no zone bers who promised us a fair show; if and are men of their word they have a s'yostern or Kurrawaug water system, they consequently we should expect manage- right to give us every show. You gave ment instead of mismanagement. We another Government a ten-years show, should then expect that this great asset audyouexpect this Government. hampered of the State would be managed in every as it has been with a minority, hampered possible way for the benefit of the State *by the fact that on the other side the anid in order that it may be used to its *numerical numbers are against us, and fullest benefit for the people. And now, hampered by the cramped ideas anud what is going to be the result of this animosities of a number of members. motion, if carried against us?, Well, I You have tried in every possible way to presume the leader of the Government block the business of the country. You will have to recommend who will be his have not given us that manly support successor. Of course when one does this, you promised uts. I am saying what is one puts himself in the position of His true, and I am saying it right up to you. Excellency the Governor, and says: " Send You have not given to us that support; for Mr. Piesse." I think I have just got and when you do, you have the right to a, paper called the. Davies Inquiry Board, say this Ministry does not enjoy the here sent to me; the ink is hardly dry on it; that document says when this gentle- 'confidence of either the country or the muau was previously Minister of the Mni. J. E W IING (South-Western Crown, be did not discharge his trust as Mining District) : I regret very much an independent board thought he should II cannot congratulate tehon. member have (lone. Consequently, if I were the (Mr. Gar-diner) on his speech. I must Governor, or aly other man was Governor, congratulate him on the excellent manner one wouldl suggest: " Well, is that the in which he delivered his speech, but I standard of the legislators of this cannot congratulate him on his remarks country,? Are they prepared to ask mre and the manner in which he referred to appoint a. man who this report says to His Excellency the Governor and was disloyal to his trust? Ask me to the prerogative which is placed in the appoint that man aleader of the Govern- *Governor's hands. I think this House ment of this counrtry, giving to him governs the country, and the vote taken every possible power, giving the des- in the House, wh~enever it comes, will tinies of the country into his hanrds?" decide whether or not the Government I think if I were the Governor, I would retain the confidence of the House. Then say: " No. Let us send for the member the constitutional law will decide the for Coolgardie, and then the House will *Governor as to whether he will grant a No Confidence: [6 NOVEMDER, 1901.1 Debate, third day. 1945 dissolution or not, or whether the leader the working men of as democratic a con- of the Opposition will be sent for. I stituency as is represented by any member disclaim the remarks of the member for of the House. The political Labouir Albany, who was very bitter in his refer- party may come down and prove to my ences to the member for the Williams. electors that I have violated my pledges, As the first member sitting on the Oppo- and then they can turn me out of my sition cross-benches who has risen to seat; but not before. speak, I say emphatically that I do not MR. TAYLOR: Hansardwill prove it. regret to-night the position I occupy; I ME. RESIDE: You have proved it anm fully satisfied with it; and if a disso- yourself. lution be granted, I shall be very pleased MR. EWING: I hope hon. members if a member on the Government side will on the Labour bench will interject as contest my constituency, to prove that I much as possible, because it does me a have not forfeited the confidence of the lot of good. people I represent. I can assure hon. Maf. TAYLOR: I know you like it. members that I do not desire to remain a MR. EWING: It is said that he who member of the House if I am to repre- excuses himself, accuses himself; and sent constituents who have no confidence when hon. members on the other side of in me. [THE PREIR: Oh!]1 If it be the House those to accuse me of violat- said that by my actions I have betrayed ing my pledges, I did not endeavour on their confidence, I shall be delighted if those occasions to excuse myself. I do the Premier, should he get a dissolution, not intend to do so to-night, because I will send a Government candidate to test am perfectly satisfied to take the respon- the question with me in my electorate. sibility of my actions. [OPPOSITION [THE PREMnER: Oh! ] In the early MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] I maintain, part of the session 1, in common. with a notwithstanding the remarks of the great number of members of this (Oppo- member for Albany (Mr. Gardiner), that sition) side of the House, was subjected the present Government have received to violent attacks from hon. members on fair and reasonable treatment at the the other (Government)' side, and more hands of the Opposition. [Interjections especially from the member for East and laughter.] I maintain that there Perth (Hon. W. H. James), who is not has been no undue interference on the here now. InI the course of the attacks part of this (Opposition) side of the those who thought fit to criticise our House, so far as the passing of legislation actions went so far as to say that we had is concerned. I maintain that no ad- violated our election pledges, our pledges vantage has been taken of our apparent on the hustings. [THE Panusza: Hear, numerical strength to harass or impede hear.] The Premier says "hbear, hear "; the Government in any way whatever. but I have risen here to-night. to say I say, farther, that our sincerity in this deliberatel 'y that I have not violated my respect is shown-and I speak now more pledges'; and I challenge the Premier, especially of those who sit beside me on when the next election comes along, to the cross-benches- send a luau to contest my constituency Ma. TAYLOR: Are you the leader? with me. I challenge the member for MR. EWING: I am not the leader. Albany (Mr. Gardiner) to contest it with Mn. TAYLOR: No; we know you are me. not. MRt. TAYLOR: We will send a Labour MR. EWING: I say our sincerity is candidate. evidenced by the fact that when Parlia- MR. EWING: As for that, I have ment met, the members sitting in direct beaten the Labour candidate before, and Opposition with those on the cross Oppo- I will beat him again. [OPPOSITION sition benches formed a majority of MEMBERs: Hear, hear.] If members on the House, for whom it was quite that (Labour) bench say they represent possible and quite competent to turn the working-maui, and that they alone the Government out of power inme- represent him, I say that before I sit diately. But 1, with others-I think down to-night I will prove they do not with the whole of the members of the represent the working-man. Standing direct Opposition, and those on the here, I say deliberately that I represent Opposition cross-benches - decided that 1946 No Confidence; (ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day. the Government should have a fair and there will be no harm done. All the reasonable chance; and I say we have cobwebs will have been cleared away, and given them a fair and reasonale chance. we shall at least see who are supporters In my humble opinion, the Government and who are opponents of the present have neglected their opportunities, have Government. I take it the Ministry not administered the affairs of the coun- must desire that consummation; because try in a manner which is satisfactory; they cannot - [THE PREMIER: Hear, and that is the reason why I take my hear] -as men with any sell-respect, wish stand to-night and Say I shall support to occupy so anomalous a position for any the motion of no-confidence. I am pre- greater period of time. It is a very pared to give my reasons for voting for significant fact, however, and one which the motion tabled by the member for appeals to me Strongly, which especially the Williams. appeals to me because I took my seat THE PREMIER: Hear, hear. on these Opposition cross-benches fully MR. HASTIE: The Government would prepared to cross over to the Ministerial not build the Collie railway. side of the House and support the MR. EWING: The hon. member says, Government if I was satisfied with their "The Government would not build the policy- Collie railway." I can assure the House MR. JOHNSON : The trouble with you is that in the notes which I propose to use too much Labour legislation. here to-night, I have not a single refer- MR. EWING: Too much Labour legis- ence to the Collie railway. lation, the member for Kalgoorlie says. MR. TAYLOR: We do not doubt that. I venture to affirm that there is more [Intejections and laughter.] capacity for Labour legislation in my little MR. EWING: If any hon. member finger than in the whole body of the hon. wants to hear my views on the Collie member. railway. I am quite willing to give him MR. JOHNSON: I would like to see an hour, or a couple of hours, or even your Labour legislation. three hours; and I undertake to Say at Mn. EWING: The result of the session the end of the time he will be with me so far has been that Ministers have not on this point, that the Collie railway- been able to induce ay member to cross Ma. TAYLOR: Oh, save that for the over from the Opposition benches to the elections! Ministerial side of the House. Ministers MR. EWING: The matter has been must give members sitting on these introduced into the debate; it is not of Opposition cross-benches credit for acting my seeking that I refer to it; but I say in accordance with their convictions, and now that it matters not one jot what with a view to what they consider to be gentlemen may occupy the Treasury the best interests of the State. I say, bench, it matters not one jot whether therefore, that if Ministers have not been the Premier of this State be the member able to induce one or two of us to cross to for West Perth or the member for the their side of the House, it is 'ecause Williams, that railway has got to be their conduct of affairs has not been in built in the very near future, in spite of the best interests of the State, in the them all. [Interjections and laughter.] opinion of myself and of hon. members It is a very anomalous position to see the sitting beside me. Government endeavouring to carry on the Mn.. RESIDE: That is it: in the best affairs of the country with apparently interests of the State. only a minority supporting them. [THE MR. EWING: Had the case been PaEua: Hear, hear.] It has been said otherwise, some of us would have been that when a motion of this kind was only too pleased to walk across the floor. tabled, it would soon be seen that the We find, on the other hand, that one Government were not in a minority, member, the member for the Murchison but had a majority at their back. When (Mr. Nanson), whose ability cannot be the debate is over we shall see whether disputed, whose sincerity cannot be that prognostication is right or wrong. impugned, and whom the Government If it be right, then the business of the delighted to honour, would not remain on country can go forward in an undisturbed the Government side of the House. I manner, and without interruption; and say the Government, by their bad No Confidence, No[r Confience: Noysninun, 1901.] Debate, third day. 141947 manmagement, by their want of tact, and MR. Honris: He will have to live a certainly I can say by their want of long time, I'm afraid. ability in the administration of the affairs MR. EW ING: For my part, I main- of the State, forced that hon. member to tam- cross over, he being a. democrat. MR. TAYLOR: Mt. Margaret knows you Ma. TAYLOR:- He is a democrat? people too well. Mn. EWING: I venture to say that Ma. EWING: There is one thing about the member for the Murchison is a the member for Mt. Margaret: it is democrat. I venture to say the day is always pleasant to bear him interject, or not far distant when he will have proved rather to see him interject, because there to the people of the State that he is a is a perpetual smile on his face, and we democrat, and a very able one at that. know "it will be all right" as soon as we get outside the Chamber. For my part, Tn PREMIER: And that is why he I rejoice that the member for the Williams follows the member for the Williams? has tabled this motion, and I hope to be OPPOSITION MEMBER: Yes. able, before I resume my seat, to give full Mn. EWING: I am about to deal and sufficient reasons for supporting it. with that matter now. The statement of Ma. TAYLOR: I wish you would begin the Premier amounts to an assertion that with your reasons, the member for the Williams is not a Ma. EWING: I hive not started yet. democrat. There is one thing I desire to refer to Tan PREMIER: That is what I mean. before beginning to give my reasons for Mn. EWING: It has been suggested supporting the motion, which reasons from time to time that the member for may or may not commend themselves to the Williams is not a democrat; but it is niy friends on the Labour bench. I think given to all men to repent. possibly before I finish, my reasons will MRn. TAYLoR: You will repent yet. strike those members as satisfactory. MR. EWING: Why should the right Before proceeding farther with that part to change his opinions he denied to the of my speech, however, I shall refer to member for the Williams? w hat ha been said about the old Forrest MIssBVRann MEMBR: Il~e says he party. "I notice the Premier nudging the has not changed them.- Minister for Works, as I say this. The MR. EWING: I rejoice to think the hon. gentleman evidently thinks he is speech delivered by the member for the going to hear something amusing. Williams the other night was quite as5 THE FRExHER: Not a had phrase, is democratic as anything which has come, it? or is likely to come, from the Government MR. EWING: A few members like side of the House. I venture to say that myself, sitting on the Opposition cross- if the member for the Williams gets into benches, have been twitted times out of power, and surrounds himself with the number on the score of our sitting in best men he can find on this side of the company with gentlemen who in times House, he with them will be prepared to past followed Sir John Forrest. carry through the democratic legislation THE6 PREMIER:- Hear, hear; quite which is now before the House; and then right! nothing will stop the passing of that MR. EWING: I notice the Premier legislation. In all probability members never looks pleasant when that right hon. on this side are prepared to go to a greater gentleman is mentioned. I trust there length in democratic legislation than even is no offence in what I am about to say, the gentlemen occupying the Ministerial I hope the Premier will not take offence benches at the present time. at it, for anything I say inside the House Mn. TAYLOR: Nonsense! Go on. I say out of regard for my duty as a Ma. EWING: I believe it; and if the member of Parliament. Accordingly, I member for Mt. Margaret (Mr. Taylor) state now that in my opinion the Premier live long enough, he will yet find that it is quite incapable of filling his high and is his duty to himself, and his duty to his honourable position with the wisdom and constituents as well, to follow the demo- dignity which chiaracterised Sir John crats on this (Opposition) side of the Forrest's tenure of the office. [On'w- House. SITION4 MEMBERS:- Hear, hear.] I mean 1948 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.][SEBY) Debate,Dbttiddy third day. that, when I say it: I assure hon. mem- Mn. EWING: It is quite competent bers I never say a thing I do not mean. for the Colonial Treasutrer, when speaking, THE PREm IER:- You see, Tarn a "traitor to deny the statement. I maintain that and a croaker." the Premier and the Colonial Treasurer Ma. EWING: I do not think you are were against the progress of the State a traitor; but I do think you are a when they Rat on1 the Opposition benches. croaker toa certain ex4tent. TEEs PREMIER: That's right! Hear, MR. HOPKINs: A croaker do. you hear. say? Mta. EWING:- I say those two hon. Mn. EWING: The bold and progres- members endeavonred to block the Forrest sive policy of the Forrest Administration, Administration. I maintain, has done much -indeed, I Tas, PREMIER: Qute right! may say all-for the advancement of this MR. EWING:- They tried to block the great country. I may remark here that 1progress of the State. Had the honk. the goldflelds especially, to which the gentleman who occupies the position of Premier so frequently refers, would per- Premier at this day been in the position haps have fared very badly if the present of the Right Hon. Sir John Forrest, in Administration had been in office at the all probability we would be carrying mer- time of the boom. The Right Hon. Sir chandise to the goldfields on the backs of John Forrest took time by the forelock. camels to-dlay. I venture to say - -aud I believe I cannot TasE PREMIER: You are quite right. be contradicted-that in such works as I did oppose the Green hills railway. the Coolgardie Water Scheme- Ma. EWING:- Possibly. I regret MR. TAYLOR:. Oh, goodness! Iexceedingly th at the Premier should bring MR. EWING: I say, such great works up su ch a, small matter as the Greenhilis as the Coolgardie Water Scheme. railway in this connection. When I Hoin. F. -H. PlaSSE: That will come thinkz of the great things accomplished out all right! by the Rtight Ron. Sir John Forrest, I MR. EWING: I venture to say that say we should be just, and. render honour the coinstituents of some of the gentlemen. where honour is dlue. on the Labotir bench will be delighted to Ma. TAYLOR. The goldfields did not have the Coolgardie Water Scheme in think so, judging by, the members they operation. There is no mistake about its returned. utility. I have been on the goldfields, THE: SPEsAKER: Order, order! and I know what want of water means. Ma. EWING:- Those who were loudest I now call attention to the fact that the in condemnation of the administration of Premier and the Colonial Treasurer were Sir John Forrest's r~gime are those who, the strongest opponents in this House of in my opinion, have received the greatest the advancement of the railway system, benefit from the right hon. gentleman and of the construction of the Coolgardie and his colleagues. They have railways, Water Scheme. and post offices, and every facility for the OPPOSITION MEn Ens: Rear, hear. transport of goods that they could expect, TEE P.REMIER: I opposed the Cool- and more than they bad a right to expect, gardie Water Scheme, but not the exten- and more than any other State, in similar sion of railways:- there you a-re wrong. circumstanLces, has given to people in ML. EWING: I say the rremier and times past. I am satisfied on that point. the Colonial Treasurer were the strongest Therefore I say, be fair; do not be opponents of the general advancement of unj ust. the State. I am not conversant with all MiENDER: What did we give in return? the earlier debates of this Asasembly, not Mn. EWING: It was ever thus. We having had time to look themi up; but I are all apt to kick down the bridge that make this statement advisedly, and it is carried us over. I regret to see some within the power of the Colonial Treasurer, members are sitting in this House who who is going to reply to me, or not par- kick down the bridge by which they ticularly to myself, hut to myself and walk-ed to salvation. I will simply co;.? anyone else who speaks- elude my reference to this by saying- adI say it advisedly, and I believeI MR. TAYLOR: We shall want two or ad the country at my back-I believe three to reply to you. No Confidence. (6 NoymceEn, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene [ NVUVES,190.J third day. 1949 that if Sir John Forrest could return to do not regret that vote, and if a vote were power, Dot only would the goldields, but taken to-morrow I should vote in the the cities and the coastal districts, would same way. Make no mistake about that; bave received him with open arms, and I am not going back upon any vote I would have put him back if only to save have given in this House. them from the maladministration of the Mn. GARDINEn: Why did you give present Ministry. Some of us had not them ? the opportunity of being present when MR. EWING:- I have my reasons, and the hon. gentleman (the Premier) shall endeavour to give them. If they delivered his maiden speech as Premier are not sufficient to satisfy the member in the Queen's Hall. On that occasion for Albany, then of course I shall be he referred more especially, I think, to sorry. I was goinog to say that the Gov- the reorganisation of the public service erment thought fit to appeal to this than anything else. House at the time. I was pleased at the TRY PnxsntR: Hear, hear; quite right. manner in which the House loyally sup- Mn. EWING: There is no question ported them and lifted them out of the that this is one of the best planks in his trouble into which they had got them- platform; and if he had carried out that selves. But my especial reason for reorganisation in a way that would have referring to the strike, which I regret commended itself to me, he would have having to refer to, is to point out what. found no more loyal supporter than muy mind, is an absolute breach of myself to-night. I would remark that if faithto on the part of the Premier in eon- that policy had been carried out in a, fair neetion with the reinstatement of certain and reasonable manner, he would have men.- I ask the House to believe that in had the confidence of this House, and referring to this matter I am doing so in not only would he have had the confidence the best interests of the State, not in of this House, but the confidence of the regard to party politics, but as a part country. I say advisedly that if a board justification, I ma~y almost say a com- had been appointed immediately upon plete justification, if there be any justi- his accession to office. or within a month fication required, for the vote which I or six weeks, the work of reorganisation shall record on this occasion. For the could have been carried out. I know information of the House-I trust I have that a board to reorganise the service in not wearied them- and to refresh their New South Wales was apointed, and memories, I would desire to read the that board did its work, ands there was no remarks of the Premier on that occasion. trouble. If the hou. gentlemen bad had He said on that occasion, 10th July, in any idea of administration, they would speaking on this railway strike - and have appointed an outside boyato- there is no doubt he made a niagnificient gether, and they would then have elicited speech on that occasion, and one which public confidence. That would have did honour to him: given to the railway employees an assur- But we have given a pledge, and we give it ance that in the near future they would now, that a, proper board, representing per- have it remedy for all the ills they sons on both sides of the dispute, shall be had been suffering, under. I think you appointed to determine, without any delay can attribute to this negligence the strike whatever, the question which is at issue; and moreover, we have declared that we will re- that occurred. The Government pro- instate these men in their original positions crastinated; they waited until the evil without any qualifications whatever, if they time was upon them, they waited until will return to work at once, every one of them, all the trouble came, and then, I regret and we make no reservation; and I also exceedingly to say, the Commissioner of declare, and I declare it upon my honour, that there shall be no " marked " men on account Railways handled the railways in such a of theareent dispute. (Tms Pannmmia Hear, tactless, undignified, and unbusinesslike hesr.J Also, while I desire to be fair to the manner that he brought all the trouble men who have gone out on strike, I must be upon the State that was experienced then, equally fair to those who have come to the and is partially here now. assistance of the State in a moment of emergency. and the men who have been Mn. G ARDifla: How did you vote ? temporarily employed will be offered employ- MR. EWING: The member for A lbany ment at the same rate of wages, and will not is twitting me as to how I voted; but I be discharged. 1950 No Confidence; [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day.

1 beg the House to take notice of this. would not have been retained. I give These men were going to be kept on, and that for what it is worth, but he was told there was no 'question of want of work. deliberately that there was no work for The Premier farther said: him. What do we findP The reason We shall, no doubt, require more men to given was that the work on which he was assist in the working of the railways. Up to when the strike started would the present moment so few men have been notlasengae sufficiently long to enable him to taken on that we shall not be hampered by their presence; thai we can not only replace return to his work and take part in it. I the strikers in their old positions, but I am know that to be an absolute untruth. also happy to state that we shall be able to Of course, I am not charging the Premier continue the men who have come to our with an untruth, or anything of that assistance. kind, but the officer who gave him that I hold there can be no misunderstanding information told a deliberate untruth, for of these words. They are very clear and to my own knowledge, speaking as a distinct, and I say again they admit of responsible member of this House, I know no misunderstanding. It was clearly it to be untrue, for it took upwards of understood that all the men should be three weeks to complete that work after put on. What do we find? The member the strike; and only one man was for Bunhury (Mr. Hayward) called for employed upon it. Therefore, why was certain papers in connection with what not that man reinstated and sent back was the alleged non-reinstatement of upon the workP There is a clear case. certain men in Bunbury. Those papers And there are seven or eight men in a were laid on the table of the House. I similar position. This man is receiving have been able to peruse them, and after strike pay, and is being kept by the perusing them I have come to the con- associationi. I want to know why the elusion that an injustice has been done to Premier did not act in accordance with one man, or to seven or eight men, if you the promise he gave to this Hd6use, and want to know. I fully understand that a carry out faithfully the high trust placed certain time must elapse before these in him, and when all the facts of the case matters can be brought under the notice were before him, see that these men were of the Premier; and I would not have not subjected to anky grievance. referred to these matters if they had not THE PREERi You will see it all on been brought under his notice. But for the file on the table: have you read that? a considerable time-I may say a month MR. EWING: I have said advisedly, or six weeks-they have continually been in speaking of this matter, that 1 have brought under his notice, and he has read that file. failed to do his duty and to be what I con- TEE P REMIER: That is all right. sider fair and just between man and man. MR. EWING: Farthermore, I1 have He had a perfect knowledge of this, aind no information or knowledge of those he has decided that these particular men, men. I would not know them. They one particular man at any rate, shall not have never approached me in any shape be reinstated until there is work for him. or form; but my conclusion has been I mark that point. But to put the arrived at entirely from a study cf the matter in a, few words I may say this, files, and my own personal knowledge of that a certain man called Hehir, a the case. carpenter working at the Collie, build- THE PREMIER: I see. mng a cabin, andl another man called ME. EWiIG: It is only a personal Tucker, at the time of the strike, when difference of opinion. Certainly, that is the general secretary called them out, my opinion. I give it to the House for of course loy'ally obeyed and came out. what it is worth, and I say it is right. I When the mandatoe went forth that the say this to the members sitting on the men should return to work, this man, in Labour benches, they were sent here to the usual course, applied to his superior look after labour, to look after the officer in Bunbuqy for his reinstatement, interests of the working man. but he was told there was no work for MR. TAYLOR: That is right. him. He says hiniself-but I cannot Ms. EWING: But they have got up vouch for this-that he was farther told to-night and told us they are going to that, if he had not gone on strike, he support the Government. No onfidence: [6 Novnxnsn, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1951

MR. TAYLOR: So we are. fully half the people with vested interests MR. EWING: All right; you will in this State, can refuse to receive them have to answer for it some day at the and to hear their complaints and wishes, ballot box. then I say he cannot successfully carry MR. GARDINER: Your own paper out the high rdie which he attempts. said so. THE PREMIER: Then you are annoyed. MR. EWING: True. I told the mem.- MR. EWING : Not a bit. You could ber for Albany (Mr. Gardiner) that I am not annoy me. Regarding Clause 10? prepared to go to the ballot box to-morrow of the Conciliation and Arbitration Bill morning. I say it is a clear case of that is still before the House, I should injustice, and it is a case which should like to make a few remarks. A Bill was not be brought before this House by introduced which embodies the views of what they call a "Conservative " member the Government, and it certainly has not of the House. If I were a Conservative, my support; and if the Government have would I worry about these things ? No. introduced this clause with any ulterior I am a true democrat. However, I say motive, which, on the face of it, seems this in connection with the matter: I apparent, then it has my distinct oppo- have dealt with the matter in all serious- sition. And to say the House have ness and all earnestness, because in my passed the second reading is to say heart I think a great injustice has been nothing except that the House have done. I think the Premier does not affirmed the principle, and have not in any retain confidence, in not fulfilling his way dealt with the details. We have not pledges. I venture to say that had the pledged. ourselves to Clause 107, and to it member for the Williams (Hon. F. H1. I am absolutely in opposition. I say the Piesse) been Premier, he would to the Government have no right arbitrarily to very letter have cardied out the instruc- break up the Railway Association into dif- tions of the House, and have seen that ferent unions ; and they cannot do so with- no man suffered a wrong. out destroying the usefulness of unionism. MR. HA5TI1P: Is that democracy ? Of course the member for Kanowna, (Mr. ME. EWING: That is one reason Hastie) seems to believe in this policy; why I, as a responsible member of this at any rate, he is supporting the Govern- House, answering for my constituents, ment which introduces the Bill. feel justified in voting against the MR. HlAsTiE: Which ? Government. Mn. EWING: I refer particularly to MR. HASTIE: Give us some democracy Clause 10?. THE PREMiER: That is because I woul MR. HAsvIs: Wait till it goes into not receive your deputation. Committee. MR. TAYLOR: That is tight. MR. EWING: I was waiting for that MR. EWING: Well, I have been interjection. What does it meanP That waiting along timiefor that. The point we have to rectify the mistakes of the also forms no part of the remarks I have Government. to make. If I chose to attack the Pre- MR. HASTIE: Certainly, mnier on the certainly unstatesmanlike MR. EWING: D3o you mean to say attitude he adopted on that occasion, I the member for East Perth (Hon. W. H. might safely do so; but I might then be James) will allow the House to cut out of told I was actuated by interested motives, his Bill what is one of its most vital and was not dealing fairly with the ques- clauses? Certainly not. And the Gov- tion. Therefore I have let it alone until ernment have to take the responsibility the Premier himself introduced it, and I for introducing legislation of such a may now tell him he never committed a character, and the members on the greater blunder in his life than when be Labour bench are supporting the Govern- refused to receive that deputation. That, ment against their own convictions. however, is not the reason for my opposi- Mn. TAYLOR : I have entered my tion to the present Ministry. protest. TEE PREMIER: It has a6 great deal to MR. EWING: I have had the honour do with it. to introduce a Coal Mines Regulation Bill MR. EWING: No, sir; but 1 say to this House; and you might just as advisedly that if the Premier can ignore well say I am prepared to sit here and 1952 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day.

allow hon. members to cut that Bill to not like to be G. W. Davies. He has been pieces, and deprive it of its most vital dragged about enough. However, it is portions, and then be satisfied. Why, if my duty to give some of my reasons, and that were attempted, I should stand up this is one of them; and to my mind it is and object, and do my level best to keep an all-sufficient reason for registering my the Bill in its entirety; therefore, the vote against the present Administration Government are bound to look after their at the present time. I consider the own Bill, and to uphold their own prin- appointment of G-. W. Davies to the ser- ciples in opposition to the members on vice of the State, taking into considera- the Labour bench. tion the full knowledge' which I believe MR. JOHNSON: What sort of Arbitra- the Commissioner of Railways had- tion Bill would you give use You would THE CommrssroNn OP RAILWAYS: wipe out the association altogether. You are wrong. Ma. EWVING: I do not think I can MR. EWING: Well, the Commis- give credit to the member for Kalgoorlie sioner says he had it not. I am bound (Mr. Johnson) for having any brains to take his denial; but I must say that at all. since certain questions were asked in the MR. TAYLOR: You have not sufficient House, and since he has bad ample brains to judge hits. opportunity of standing up here and Mn. EWING: I have come to the con- denying what has been said about his clusion that he has none. knowledge of the facts, he has not done MR. TAYLOR: How much have you? SO. Therefore I am bound to believe Mn. EWING: I have certainly suffi- what has been said. It is very unfair to dient not to make such silly miserable this country that a discredited civil ser- interjections as the member foi Kalgoorlie. vant should have been placed in such a I should like to deal as shortly as I can high position, in such a position of trust. with this great reorganisation of the We find that this particular man not railway service. It in the only reorganisa- only while in the service did give in- dion which has been attempted b*y the formation to certain people, and it has present Administration. Last night the been said in this House, to the Com- Premier spoke for three hours; he gave missioner of Railways; but to enable us practically all that has to be said fronm him to criticise the actions of the mem- the Ministerial side of the House. Per- ber for the Williams, who was the Com- haps he is better fitted than any other missioner then, be kept in a note-book member on that side to do so, because he learned and conned by rote all the happens to be the head of the Govern- matters he could collect to cast in the ment, and everything centres in him. He teeth of the political opponents of the told us he could not reorganise the civil present Government. I say that is an service in five months ; he could not unheard of, a scandalous th~ing; and I even attempt it, because theme are civil farther venture to say that by such an servants who will not allow him to do it. appointment, which has been condemned If that be really so, it is a pitiable state by the board of inquiry, the present of things; and any man in his position Commissioner has neither secured the with a desire to reorganise the service a p robation of this House nor the con- would have done it in a very short time. hence of the country. As regards I wish to refer to the Commissioner of the suspension of Mr. John Davies the Railways; he has had a lot of heckling, Preumier has taken a stand, and seems to and I do not desire to heckle him, or to think the vote of want-of-confidence is be unnecessarily severe in my strictures. centred round John Davies. -That is not [THE COMISSIONnERORAILWAYS: Thank my opinion. But I must say what I feel. I THE PREMIER: Then you are wrong. haveyou.] not any doubt that he has, to a MR. EWINIG: I have ample grounds certain extent, acted in a manner which apart from that; and the John Davies he thought was in the best interests of suspension does not enter into the ques- the State; but in my opinion he has acted tion at all. But I say that, as a. fair- in a very arbitrary and foolish manner. minded man, I at all times would en- I would refer for one moment only to the deavour to give a " fair deal " to my fellow appointment of G. W. Davies. I should man. I do not think Mr. John Davies No Confidence.- [6 NOVEMBIuR, 1901.1 NoDebate,Cnfienc: [ Nonwn third191.1 day. 1953 baa been given a fair deal; and for that more reasonable Government, more ortho- I condemn the Government. I say dox methods, or methods that would advisedly they have not justified the commend themselves to right-thinking position they took up in suspending Mr. men. We do not want despots here; we Davies, but they have landed this country do not want Shah-of-Persia. rule in this in enormous expense, and they must now country. We want every man, every face the situation by reinstating Mr. civil servant, to get a.fair deal; and that John Davies at a very early date, or must an certainly be dlone without going on pay the piper. in the very high-handed manner adopted Tan PREMIER:- Do you mnean it? by the Commissioner of Railways. Does Mu. EWING:- I say you cannot prove not the Oomnmissioner know that his justification by the report of the board of railway servrice-I know it, if lie does inquiry. Notwithstanding what the Pre- not--ia the most iniquitous service in mier explained to us last night, you the whole State? There are men working cannot prove justification to my mind. 12, 14, and 18 hours a day. Why does Ma. Hop.KINs: That would be im- he not appoint a board? Does he not possible. know the stations are improperly classed? Mu. EWING: Therefore I say you THE Pasmxza: Then the department have landed the country in a pitiable is disorganised; it requires reorganisa, state. tion ? THffE PREMI[ER:- I do not understand MR. EWING: Certainly. what you mean about incurring expense Tan PREMIER: That is right. or liability. MR. EWING: The member for the Mn, EWING: I say. you have not Williams, who aspires to be Premier of proved a cuse against Mr. John Davies; this State, is going to reorganise it if he and I believe, if he be not reinstated in goes in. his right position, you must compeusats THE PREMIER: Hle ought to under- him, stand it, because he disorgsinised it. THE PREMIER: What does that mnean ? Ma. EWING: That is all right. I shall Mn. EWING:- What does it mean? deal with that preSe~itly. But I say, I am dealing with the case of Mr. John for the information of the Premier, his Davies. attack last night on the member for THE PREMIER: That has caught you. the Williams, and the attacks of every MRt. EWING: No; it has not. I tell direct Ministerial supporter, have been the Premier decidedly that in my opinion, nothing more to my mind than a outside the question of cost, there is no deliberate attempt to besmirch the oharac- justification for the suspension. ter of an honourable man. I say it is THE PREMI[ER:- I thought you were wrong to do so. Go for a man's political talking about a. legal liability. character as much as you like; tarnish MR. EWING: Well, I do not profess him politically as far as you can; but do to have any' legal knowledge, and -I some- not try to take away a man's fair name. times thank God for it. Although I I say as to the maladministration of the have relatives in the legal p)rofession, I railways in the past, that has little to do have not been led to t hink legal prac- with me. I say that the ox-Commissioner titioners are the best people to control of Railways (Hon. F. H, Piesse) was not the affairs of the State. administering one department, but two; THE PREMIER: There are policemen an d I venture to say that in administering in the family, I should think. those departments, were the right people MR. EWING: I do not think so; but consulted, you would find he administered I maintain that this attempt at reorganis- them most admirably. ation- the only attempt made by the MR. TAYLoR:- Who are the right Government-has resulted in an uitter people ? disorganisation of the service, and in no MR. EWING: There is only one more good to the country. I am satisfied on point I should like to touch on-the that point; and I believe we cannot have Government policy. It is a. policy of any assurance that in time to come, were stagnation; and I maintain that what- the present Ministry left in the position ever Government be in power in the they occupy to-night, we should have future- -the Leake Government or the 1954 No COnfldence z [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day.

Fiesse Government--we must have some been an oversight, but it is an error the progress in this State. Treasurer should not make. The Trea- MR. GARDINER: We Must not neglect surer should not forget to tell us what the Collie railway. has been done in the past in connection MR. EWING: I have already explained with the coal industry, and he should not to the House, it matters not to me who forget to tell us what hope there is for it are in power, that railway will be con- in the future, because a very great deal structed. But in speaking on the Budget depends on the fuature development of the the other night, the member for Cool- coal industry. The Treasurer may not gardie (Mr. Morgans) tried to get an have remembered it if the omission was assurance to the House that there would not done purposely. be in the near future an extension THE COLONIAL TREASURER: Not pur- of the railwa.'y s 'ystem on the goldfields. posely. With his sentiment I agree; it will be MR. EWING: Then the hon. member necessafy to carry the railway system in neglected his duty, and he has failed to that direction. We find the Colonial recognise what is going to be one of the Treasurer immediately afterwards getting finest industries of the State. up and saying that he had no hope. THE COL~ONIAL TREASURER: I have THE COLONIAL TREASURER: Not no said the strongest thing about the coal hope; no money. industry that has been said in this House. MR. EWING: That means no money. MR. EWING: I am glad to hear it. The last loan floated in the London I hope the Treasurer will say much market demonstrated to rmy mind that stronger thiugs in the future. It has there are millions of pounds of London been said by members that there are no money waiting for any good investment liberal advanced ideas on the Opposition here; therefore the hon. member's remarks side of the House, and that there is no do not hold good. I will ask him this chance of the legislation before us being question as a responsible Minister and carried through. Why ? one who has the interests, I hope, of the MR. TAYLOR: Because you block it. country at heart--and he must get a MfR. EWING: I say that the hon. larger heart-bow are the Government member has no right to make an asser- going to develop the country and to work tion of that kind. If the member for the the natural resources unless they build Williams goes into office to-morrow, I railways and other public works. The know nothing of his intentions, but I have Government cannot reduce the indebted- sufficient confidence in him to believe he ness of the State by one pound except 'will respect the wishes of the House and they, settle people on the land, and this carry out the legislation before it. question must very soon be faced. From MR. HAsTIE: We have not. the remarks of the Premier and other MR. EWING: The day will come Ministers I see no gleam of hope, but I when the lion, member will learn to do express the wish that we my have respect a man, and not judge him before men with a greater knowledge of the he has a fair and reasonable trial. I say requirements of the State and with per- members are too apt to judge: give a -m haps a little more pluck to fill the Minis- a fair trial, and see whether he has the terial benches, and who will be prepared ability to carry on the affairs of the to do a little more for the advancement of State. For my part I am going to give the State. There is one thing I would the member for the Williams a fair trial, like to refer to in the Treasurer's Budget and if he fails then I will judge him. speech: it is a very small matter no MR. TAYLOR: Judge a tree by its doubt to him, but it is a pretty large fruits. question to me, representing the constitu- MR. EWING; As far as the member ency which I do. The last Budget for the Williams is concerned, he can speech delivered by the late Premier men- defend himself against the charges which tioned the coal and the tin industries: have been made against him. There is the new Colonial Treasurer spoke about not the slightest question but that every other industry of the State, but he will clear them away, he will brush forgot the great industry of coal- them aside as cobwebs. If the honour- mining in the State. It may have able gentleman assumes the reins of the No Confidence: [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] Debate, third day. 1955

State, we shall have a man honest in his the old party for, in the construction of intentions as head of the Government. buildings. The buildings which have MR. J. RESIDE (Hannans):; I do not been erected have been paid for out of rise to reply to the remarks of the the revenue, and not out of loan moneys. member for the South-West Mining Ma. HOPKINS: They got the revenue District; I do not intend to waste iny from the goldfields. time on the hon. member. I have riseni HE. RESIDE: And they have taken to tackle a bigger gun than the bon. some of the revenue from the goldields member for the South-West Mining- Dis- and spent it in other parts, ats well as trict. But I would like to make a few spending all the loan money. Then remarks in passing as to the attitude members accuse the Government in refer- of the member for the South - West ence to the late strike, and the member Mining District. We know the great for the South-West Alining District object for which he was sent to Parlia- considers a great injustice was done : he ment. He is a man with a mission, and wants to know why the Labour party that mission is the construction of the did not take the question up. The Collie-goldfields line. member for the district whose duty MR. EwiNG: Be fair. it was to take up the question has Ma. RESTDE: The member for the taken it up, and I believe he is of a South-West Mining District says that different opinion from the member for the Collie line will be constructed no the South-West Mining District. In matter who is in power. It is going to regard to what the hon. member said be constructed, and I understand that about the Labour party that they, would down in Collie the bon. member said that have to answer at the ballot-box, I may the Government ought to construct it, tell the hon. member that as far as the but that they had no money. Then the Labour pan y are concerned they court hon. member said if the State could not another election. They know that when construct the railway, it should be built another election comes round they will by private enterprise, and if private come in with stronger num bers, they will enterprise would not construct it, then then hold the balance of power, and will he would construct it himself. not allow the old party to block the MR. EWING: Be fair. I rise to a point of legislation. We are not of order, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member afraidprogress of a general election, we are only has in no way vexed me; he has mis- too glad to have an opportunity, for we represented me. In my advocacy of the reckon we shall get a. few seats down Collie railway I have never mentioned Fremantle way then. Then the hon. the construction of the line by private member for the South-West Mining enterprise. District accuses the Government in refer- Mu. RESIDE: I can get one of the ence to the details of the Arbitration leading men in Collie to prove what I Bill, and he wants to know why the Bill have said is true. The hon. member says was not rectified on the second reading. he is going to prove that be is a better We only deal with principles on the Labour man than anky of us here, but he second reading, and this matter which has not convinced we. Again, the hon. the hon. member referred to was only a member says he voices the views of the detail. The hon. member said that independent members. How can a man people should be careful of a man's fair be an independent member if he belongs name. What have he and other members to a party? A man who belongs to a of the Opposition said of G3.W. Davies. party ceases to be independent at once. Under the cowardly privilege of Pa ria- But immediately after the hon. member ment they have called that man all starts to wave the flag and justify the old sorts of names, they have blackened his party. Other members on the Opposition character, they have robbed him of his side have ventured to give advice to the livelihood, and they have said things Labour members, and have said that the about him which they are not game to workers should be grateful to the old say outside. I will say what I have to party for, in the construction of public say about a man to his face. I do not works on the goldfields. Residents on the believe in using Parliamentary privilege Eastern goldfields have nothing to thank in order to blacken a man's character. 1956 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day.

Why did the leader of the opposition pay a profit of £2270. That was satisfac- off G. W. Davies if he has such a character tory. as bas been deseribedP As far as G. W. MEMBDER: Were they all at work?9 Davies is concerned there are a number of Mu. RESIDE: I do not know whether members on the opposite side who would all the batteries were working full time; use information gleaned from a disloyal I am giving a statement of what has servant, just as much as members on the been done. There is another matter Government side. The board of inquiry which the member for Guildford referred said there was something in the man's to. He condemned the Mining Develop- money transactions with the department, inent Bill. I contend that so far as the but that other civil servants higher in the Minister for Mines is concerned, this is service than G3. W. Davies had also been another attempt to introduce a system guilty of a similar practice. But I rose where no system has obtained in the to reply to the would-be Minister for past; and I say although the Bill perhaps Mines, the member for Guildford. was not perfect-such a thing as a per- MR. BIsON: I rise to order. Is the fect Bill. very seldom comes into the hon. member justified in making that House-it was a good Bill, and might, statement P before it got out of the House, have been THE SPEAKER: I do not think the hon. licked into a piece of good and useful member was out of order. legislation. The member for Guildford, Ma. RESIDE: I only supposed that in condemning the Bill in such scathing as a new Minister would discuss the ques- terms as he made use of, did not, I think, tion which he would be likely to have to show that degree of practical experience attend to when he got to the Treasury which we would expect from a man with benches, so the hion. member for Guild- his aspirations. [Ministerial laughter.] ford has taken up the question of mining In reference to this matter, I may quote in the debate. But the hon. member has from the leading mining journal of the been unfortunate in attacking mining Commonwealth, which . criticised the development. I, as representative of the measure as I shall read now. I may chief mining centre in the State, say that mention that the article approves of the Mr. Gregory has instituted reforms, he measure generally, and pronounces it has done good work, and he has done it better than Tasmanian legislation on satisfactorily. The hon. member (Mr. similar lines. Rason) condemns the idea that public MR. BiasN: I know where that is got batteries should be made to py. I should from. like to know, does that hon. member believe M a. RESIDE: The member for Guild- in the old system, which was no system at ford, I think, said that one of the chief all, whereby the public batteries of this mistakes of the Bill was that it assisted State were costing thousands of pounds ? the company rather more than the pros- The present Minister for Mines has taken pector or the small co-operative party of the matter in hand, he has reorganised miners. This article states: - the system, and by careful management The assistance the Bill [that is, our Bill] has made the public batteries pay. The proposes to afford prospectors who, subject to old system which the hon. member for the Government Geologist's report, may obtain Guildford thinks is fair would have gone advances up to £200, is also a commendable feature, and making ail allowance for the on, and I admit that if the present differences in mining conditions, it is fully Minister for Mines hail not come to justified by Victorias experiences under its the rescue and carried out reforms, Mining flevelopment Act. In that State it the public batteries would have been has been found that, while the advances a failure in the State, which would made in thousands to large companies have in the main proved unfortunate for the have been a sad catastrophe. With- State, those made in hundreds to prospecting out increasing the cost of crushing, parties and small co-operative companies have the present Minister for Mines has made served their purpose most successfauy, and the public batteries pay. During the have to a very considerable extent been first six months of this year there was a refunded. This has been the conspicuous feature of the Victorian experience. The loss of £3,000 on the public batteries, Assistance which the Bill proposes to render but during August they were made to for the purpose of encouraging boring pay expenses, and in September there was operations is another point that will strongly No Confidence; [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.3 I~oConidece;Debate,[6 ovura,190.)third day. 1957 commend it to the inining community, and es Act gives no power to exchange fee the provisions indicate that it is not to be of a simple for lease; consequently those spasmnodic, but of a well sustained and com- prehensive character, the measure will be the exchanges in the past were illegal, and I wore acceptable. Seeing tbe exteDt to which certainly consider the present Minister Western Australia must depend for its future for Mines is to be congratulated on the prosperity upon its mining development, the fact that he is putting a stop to the old proposals submitted to Parliament are in illegal system. every way to be approved. They stamp Mr. Gregory as a live and energetic Minister for How. F. H. PlmasE : It was abolished Mines, and they furnish a guarantee that by the late Government. under his rdgim. the industry will receive the MINSTERS: It was not. attention to which, by its importance, it is HoxN. F. H. PaRssE: It was taken in fully entitled. hand by them, then. That is an article from the leading TnzPREmiER: That's another thing. mining Journal of the Commonwealth ; MR. RESIDE: There is a, farther and I say the opinions of. that journal matter which has been taken in hand by may well weigh as against those of the the Minister for Mines, and which I con- member for Guildford, and may well be sider deserv-ing of the consideration of taken in contradiction of his opinions. the House, and that is the mnatter of MR. HIGHAar: What is the name of indiscriminate exemptions. We know the journalP that in times past it was the man with Mn. RESIDE: IDo you want to see it? influence and sometimes backstairs in- MR, HIGH1AM: No; butlI want to know fluence, who could get continuous ex- the name of it. emption-exemption sometimes running MR. RESIDE: Are you particularly up to as much as two and a, half years. interested in it ? We also know of one occasion where a Mn. Hiowir: T want to know the lease was actually protected for a space name of it. of seven months-actually protected for MR. RESIDE: It is the Australian that length of time. That was entirely Mlining Standard and Financial Review, illegal. The present Minister for Mines published in Melbourne. The next matter has taken the matter of indiscriminate I desire to refer to is the abolition by the exemptions into his particular consider- present Minister for Lands of an old tion, and has determined to put a stop to system-a. system of the old party, which them once for all. Farther, he has decided some of you people opposite are so much that if exemption is to be given it shall inclined to skite about-and that is the be given on the merits, and not on the system of conditional surrender of leases. principle of influence, or backstairs in- I draw the attention of the member for fluence, which used to obtain in times Guildford to the circumstance that the gone by. So far as the present Adminis- old mining officials have given up on tration are concerned. I will mention, conditional surrender valuable blocks of moreover, that they are not disposed to ground. Blocks of ground valued at discriminate in favour of the wealthy thousands and thousands of pounds hare man or the wealthy corporation, as been given up on conditionial surrender. against the poor prospector or the poor It has been held that these acts are miner. This is evidenced by the circum- illegal; buat perhaps the member for stance that the application of the Mer- Guildford prefers the old illegal. system ton's Reward Comupauy for exemption, as against that legal and regular system not long ago, was unsuccessful, the com- which we on this side hope to see intro- pany being refused exemption. In his ducedl by the new Administration. As speechb on the Mining Development Bill, regards these conditional surrenders of introduced by the Minister for Mines, the leases, I may mention particularly the member for Guildford condemned it as Scotchinan leases-three of them-in the not liberal enough to the prospector, the centre of the Kalgoorlie municipality. pioneer, and the alluvial miner. The They were surrendered, and five and a people on the goldfields know too sadly half acres of valuable land was given well what the methods of the old Forrest away. So far as the Land Act is con- r- gime in that respect wore. That -reime cerned, that gives no power to exchange sent up armed dragoons to capture the fee simple except for fee simple, the alluvial miners and dreg them off to gaol 1958 No Confidence: [SEBY]DbttiddyCASSEMBLY.] Debate, third day. as common criminals. That was the kind MR. RESIDE: I desire to refer, nest, of treatment the alluvial digger and the to the trouble which cropped up at prospector received from the old Forrest ]3ulong. A claimholder there discovered party, of which we have the renants what I believe to be a lode, and some of here now asking for the support of the the leaseholders wished to grab the whole Labour members. The present Ministry of the g old-bearing country so discovered. have given evidence of an earnest desire The matter was laid before the Minister to assist the pioneer, the alluvial digger. for Mines, who decided that the quartz and the prospector, who it is only right claim must have the preference ; that the should be supported. While on this man with the miner's right must come subject I will just ask, what has the mem- first and the leaseholder afterwards; ber for Gulldford accomplished, with all that where ground could be work~ed by his great experience, gained on the Mining small co-operative parties of miners on Commission, which cost the country the miner's right basis, the privilege of about £5,000 ? The commission repre- working the ground must be granted to sentedi some very good outings for a holders of miner's rights before the leasing number of people; but was there an~y system came into play. I say the Gov- practical result from that expenditure of ernin cut who -will establish the precedent £5,000?P The hon. member tells us that of giving the miner's right a preference the present Government have done over the boodler and the grabber, are nothing for the goldfields. As the mem- entitled to some sympathy from us, who ber for Kanowna (Mr. Hastie) said last represent not only Labour, but the gold- night, one has to go from home to hear fields as well. news. I will put a pertinent question to Ma. F. COzNOR: What about the the member for Guildford, and will ask general principles of this motion ? him whether, when he represented a MR. RESIDE: I am remuarking on the mining constituency, South Murchison, fact that the attack of the member for he neglected that constituency, or whether Guildford was made on the Mines he was anxious to look after its interests Department; and I am speaking now by visiting it frequently and introducing in the belief that, as a. goldfields repre- measures for the advancement of mining sen tative, I have a right to say something generally. He knows too well how he in reply. Of course, the Alinister can neglected the mining industry of South say more when be gets up. So far as the Murchison. hon. gentleman is concerned, he has Mit. RAsow: Who says so? taken into consideration many reforms Mn. RESIDE: Oh, I know. in mining administr-ation, and chiefly MR., GEORGE: What do you know? in regard to the inspection of mines. MR. RESIDE: I know. Next, I would like to have a say at MR. GEORGE: You know everything. the member for Claremont (Mlr. Sayer). MR. RESIDE: So far as the goldfields That hion. member last night undertook people are concerned, they clearly support to give this party some advice. He stated the present Administration. that the present Government were guilty MR. GEoRGE:; No. of introducing bad legislation. On being MR. RESIDE:- They do. asked what sort of legislation he referred MR. GEORGE: No; they do not. to, 'he condemned the Industrial and Ms. RESIDE:- They clearly support Provident Societies Bill, the aim of which the present Administration, as is evidenced is to legalise co-operative societies. He by the fact that out of 10 members said the Government shiould not en- returned by the Eastern goldfields, only courag-e co-operative societies. That is one is to be found on the Opposition the liberal sort of man we find on the aide, and he is there as an. independent Opposition side of the House! Such are member. the people who expect us to follow them Ms. GEORGE: But then you won't be and support them! I do not think they returned at the next election, you have much hope this time. know- MR. CoNsNou: Later on, perhaps. MR. RESIDE: Won't we? Ms. RESIDE: So far ats the member MR. GEROE: NO. [Opposition for Claremont is concerned, we know laughter.] very well what his actions in the past No Confidence. [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdenez 6NVEMER,190.] third, day. 1959 have been with respect to domestic legis- think so. Has your leader not objected lation; and we also know the attitude to and opposed every progressive measure taken by the member for the Williams, in which our party was concerned? Did who, in speaking on the Estimates, said, he not get up here and advocate cheap I think in answer to interjections, that labour, sad the introduction of unde- he would take the first opportunity of sirable immigrants? throwing out the domestic legislation foN. P. H. Pluss: T challenge the before the House. I say, people who hon. member to prove that. I never talk like that about labour legislation are spoke on the subject in my life. I have not worthy of the support of the Labour never spoken on it. [Several interjec- party; and the reason why the Labour tions.] I did speak on the second reading party are inclined to support the present of a Bill, which was carried against us, Government is that the Government have for farther consideration. shown some sympathy with our party. Mn. RESIDE: What did the leader of and that we look on them accordingly the Opposition say on the eight-hours as men of progress and reform. We question? He said that if nobody else certainly think that, so far as represen- in the House would get up to protect the tation in the Rouse goes, although the interests of the country in that matter, it Opposition may claim a majority of would be his business to do so; and he members, they do not represent a majority farther Said that the introduction of the of electors The leader of the Opposition eight - hours system into the railway admitted as much in his speech on the service would be an injustice to the Address-in-reply. In the course of his country. remarks he uttered words to the effect Hor. F. H1. PrussE: No. that although the Opposition might MR. RESIDE: You did say so, It is represent the lesser nuimber of electors, in Hansard. still-the member for Toodyay (Mr. MR. PIESSn:I I do not object to that. Quinlan) said the same thing to-night- MR. RESIDE: So far as the present they represented the interests of the side of the House is concerned we are counltry, the interests of the farmers, and not- that the interests of the farmers were OPPOSITION 'MEMBERS:. Which is "the more important than those of nomadic present side of the House "? miners. That is the kind of man the MR. RESIDE: We represent the leader of the Opposition is! There is no country. mistake about the objects of the Oppo- Mn. GEORGE: Why, man, there would sition members: they want to keep the not have been any country if it bad not farming industry in the front rank always. been for the members on this side!I Indeed, one of their chief objections to Mn. RESIDE: Oh, is that so? At the present Government is that the any rate, we have more people behind us. Ministry contains too many goldields One hon. member has said that he will representatives. I1 say the present vote for the motion because the Premier Administration have attempted. to deal would not receive a certain deputation. fairly by all sections of the community; I think that hon. member ought to have and that is a kind of treatment we cannot appreciated the honesty of the Premier, expect from members on the other side instead of being huffed at the refusal. of the House- I say we cannot expect Then, another member says hie will the same even-handed treatment f romn the support the motion because the Premier present occupants of the front Opposition once asked for a. pipe of tobacco. bench. [Ministerial laughter.] If I were not a Mn. GEORGE:- What is thatP member of the Labour party, and not a MR. RESIDE: I just remarked that goldfields representative, I should still he all sections of the community would not prepared to vote for the Government on receive even-handed justice from the men the present occasion -[MR. GEORGE: Oh, in your front rank. no]-siniply because I consider that the MR. GEORGE: That is hardly fair, you introduction of the no-confidence motion know. at the present juncture is not wise. Why MR. RESIDE : Well, so far as the did not the Opposition, with their over- Labour party are concerned, we do not whelming numbers, attack the Govern- 1960 No Confidence: [ASSEMB.LY.][SEBY]Dbetiddy Debate, third clay. ment on the Address-in -replyl If they the race of progress?~ Why is she to were not -"game" to do it then, why can wait for someone else to take action they not wait until we are in a new before she does so herself ? If Western session? What is the object of intro- A ustralia, is the country we suppose her ducing the motion at this stage of the to be, and men are patriotic, they are session ? The motion, if cardied, will game enough to take the lead as far as have the effect of delaying all the work ilabour legislation and democracy are we have so far done. Indeed, if the concerned. It is wrong for the member motion be cardied, the effect will be that for Claremont to say we shonld lag all the work of the session so far will behind in the race. I see no reason at pratically go for naught. all why the Labour members should MR. GEoiaaE: Oh, no! support the front Opposition, and I am Ma. RESIDE: I say it will. not going to do it. Mn. GEORGEn: Oh, no; it won't! MR. W. B. GORDON (South Perth): MR. RESIDE:- I defy you to prove the I bring to my recollection the fact that contrary. when I took my scat in this House I was Ma. CoNNoR - It will not be a question entirely independent, and I retain that of a majority and a. minority next time. independence to this day. I also said I MR. RESIDE: I do not wish to speak intended in no way to object to the policy at any great length on this question, for Iof the Government as suggested or pro- I suppose it will make no difference if mited to the country by the Premier. I we talk the matter over for a week; ihave not, according to my own ideas, in because evidently they have mnade up any -way since I have been in this House their minds what to do on the question, blocked any honest, fair, and Legitimate anad we only hope that the people who legislation. I am sorry the Premier is have the balance of power on this subject, not here to-night, and also the member the independent members, will use their for Albany (Mr. Gardiner). common sense, and vote on the matter Tnn COLONIAL TREASURER:- I will from a statesmanlike view of the best send for him. interests of the country. If they do that, Ma. GORDON: Thank you very they will vote against the present motion. much. I think what I may tell him may Ma. GEORGE@: No, they won't. do him good. He is not a very old man MR. RESIDYE: Yes, they will; and I Iyet. The hon. gentleman continually tell yon I shall be quite justified, and I suggested that on this side of the House am sure the people I represent will be are the remnnants of the old Forrest satisfied, if I support the present Govern- party. How he caii possibly claim that ment on this occasion. If I were bound I aim a remnant of the old Forrest party, to no party I should do the same. What I do not know. I say, too, if I remember did the member for the 'Murray (Mr. rightly, and I have been in the colony for George) do with regard to the Workers' some years, that he is more a remnant of Compensation Bill? He stonewafled it. the old Forrest party than I ant. I will He referred to mothers-in-law, step- tell the Labour members something daughters and so forth, and tried to to-night which may perhaps surprise deprive a poor little grandchild of its them. I have not ha~d time to look it up, just reward, in compensation. Yet he but if I remember rightly, the Premier says he has the interests of the country of to-day contested an election at Roe- at heart, and is the friend. of labour. bourue as an Opposition member, and Though he does that, he gets up to tryv was elected. But in two days he took to block measures in this House. office. as Crown Solicitor, and retired from MR. GEORGE:- I have done more for Parliament. The welfare of the count~ry labour legislation in one month than you was at stake; but what did he care have all Your life. about the country as long as there was Ma. RESIDE: Then the member for something to fill his pockets? This man Claremont says we should wait till some refers to me as one of the remnants of other portion of the Commonwealth leads the old Forrest party. There is no dis- the way. But I ask, why so far as grace in being a remnant of the old Westerna Australia is concerned, with her Forrest party if, while being a member of great possibilities, is she to lag behind in that party, you conducted yourself as a No Confidence: [6 Novnm33E;R, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene: 6NvEMER,190.J third day. 1961 fair, square, and honest man. Under you knew he could not hear, and how did such circumstances I would have been you attempt to annoy him? He is a man proud to be a member of that party. I whose shoes you are unworthy to untie, a was not a member of that party, but the man who has a reputation, and who has, present Premier was, and 1 would not be I maintain, done a lot for the country. in his place for something. In the You turned your back upon him and you Queen's Hall the Premier was not laughed. You did not give him the indefinite as regards his policy. He ordinary courtesy that should be extended was decided, he was very decided, and to a dog. one point especially made was in rela- THE PREMIER: I was laughing at you. tion to carrying out the promises of the MR. GORDON: It will be a nice former Government. These were almost change to laugh. Laugh if you can, his words: " I am not in any way going because you will not laugh very much to interfere with the promises of the longer. I may say that "fools rush in former Government. We intend to carry where angels fear to tread."? them out, gentlemen; we intend to carry Mn. TAYLOR: That is second-hand. them out." I will show you how he has Mn. GORDON: You are acting the not carried out all of them, anyhow. giddy goat instead. I am pleased to see There is the sliding scale. The sliding the member for Albany in his place, scale is peculiarly adapted to the Premier. because I intend to throw down the He seems to get on it on every possible gauntlet to-night. I do not intend to occasion. Sometimes I think he does not challenge his word, but I ask the House know which way he is sliding, himself. to believe me. In reference to a deputa- He will slide all right this time, and his tion which waited on the Minister for direction is very definite-he will slide Works for £1,000 for the Lower Canning out of office. lie said in the Queen's road, on the south side of the river, I Hall, " The country have pledged them- told Mr. 0Gardiner when I got his note selves to support the sliding scale." that it was not possible or feasible for me MEMBsER: Not the country. to support the application or deputation MR. GORDON: Yes; the country. they were making, as I thought the The country have pledged themselves to country, being short of f unds, could not support the sliding scale. I say it was afford £1,000 for that road without in held out as a bait to the residents of the some way interfering with the moneys coast and to every settler in the country, that should be allowed to settlers. to induce them to support federation, MR. GARDINER: I rise to a point of that the sliding scale would be carried order. The hon. member has been good out in its entirety. What do we find enough to say he wrote me. I think he is now? The Premier absolutely does not confusing me with Mr. McDonald, the care whether the sliding scale is in exist- member for Cockburn Sound. I never ence or not; he does not care whether he wrote to the member on the question of breaks his word or not; he does not care the Melville road. I was dragged in by whether a hare-faced lie is told to the Mr. McDonald, in the corridor. people. He does not care as long as he Mn. GORDON: I apologise for having is in office. 'This is the gentleman they mentioned the member for Albany in this would follow on the other side of the matter. It was really the member for House. I do not 'know how to express Cockburn Sound; but I maintain that my contempt-I cannot use any other the. mnember for Cockb,1iirn Sound was word for the -Premier in regard to his pulling the strings for the member for action to-night, when the member for Albany. Northam was speaking. Mu. GARDINER: Certainly not. THE PREMIER: What did I say? Mn. GORDON: For wrhom was the MR. GORDON: It was the action you member for Albany pulling the strings ? took; not your words. Your actions are We hear of North Perth asking for a worse than your words, at times. municipality, and one of the mnost valu- THE PREMI1ER: Oh! able blocks of land not built on in this MR. GORDON: Your actions are, if city is absolutely cut out. They grant a possible, worse than your words. When municipality to North Perth, and the. the member for Northanm was speaking very land from which the people thought 1962 No Confidence: [SEBY]Dbttiddy[ASSE-ATBLY.] Debate, third day.

they had every reasonable chance to derive only suits the beer cart? " We endeavour the rate, is absolutely cut out. This to do right" -they endeavour to do lovely piece of land !-to whom does it right! Why, if they had the brains of a belong ? It belongs to Mr. Gopley. common or garden monkey, they must MEMBER: Who is he? hare known that this £1,000 would have MR. GORDON: The member for benefited 500 people instead of one beer Albany (Mr. Gardiner) is his agent. In cart. Those are the facts of the case. relation to this road for which £1,000 is Now there is another sequel to this. It, asked, it is a wonder £1,500 was not mind you, the Government had spent given. It is very seldom you find a de- that £1,000 in dredging that Goode Street putation waiting on the Minister for jetty, Gopley would have had opposition. Works for £1,000, and getting £1,000. He might not have had so much land to It is an exception. I maintain it is the sell; he would have been selling boats. only case on record where £1,000 has That is the way in which the funds of been asked for and £1,000 given, or the country are scattered. That applies, where any amount has been asked for too, to the member for Albany. Hle would and the whole amount given. Of course get £1,000 for his own district-I mean there are exceptions to every rule. I the member for Cockburn Sound. Of would like some of the Ministers to tell course, one hardly expects a lawyer to me where there is another case in which understand figures; but as a rule, a man they have granted the full amount asked who has dealt in land and had other for. I attended the deputation with business transactions knows what £1 is regard to this road. I plainly told the worth. Now I maintain that if I have Minister f or Works the road did not £1, I cannot buy 25s. worth of stuff affect my constituency at all. But mark without being 5s. in debt. I speculate the acuteness of the member for Albany. 25s. I spend £1 and owe 5s. But what Ma. GARDINER: I had nothing to do do we find the Premier sayingP He is a with it. man of business and a lawyer, who ought MR. GORDON:- The member for to understand finance; and this is his Gockburn Sound. Of course the member statement, word for word : " The Kurra- for Albany does not live anywhere near wang syndicate started with a capital of where the road is made. Mark the cun- £1U8,000."1 ningness. They got the chairman of the THE PREMIER : Nominal capital. Canning, Roads Board, the chairman, Mn. GORDON: And what sort of mind you, even of the Belmont Roads special acting did he put on then ? He Board, the mayor of Victoria Park, and said the syndicate spent £19,000, though the chairman of the South Perth Roads he let it out that they had only a capital Board. They th ought that was a splendid of £18,000; yet they spout £19,000 thing for the member for Cockburn while they were still £18,000 to the good. Sound. They thought how good it was That is what he wants to tell the country; for him to ask for £1,000 for the district. that the Kurrawang syndicate with a It is extraordinary, and it is hacked up capital of £18,000 robbed the Govern- by the strongest supporters of the Gov- ment by buying £19,000 worth of stuff. ernment. It is backed up by their say- THE PREMIER: And not paying for it. ing, " This is what we want." What MR. GORDON: That is the sort of for ? To cart beer from Victoria Park stuff you attempt to put to the public, to Fremantle, in Copley's cart. I will Mr. Premier; and that is what you have give you some more. I can go on from been doing from the first to the very now till to-morrow. On the face of it, it last. It is only "stuffing," and you do is absolutely rotten. This £1,000 that not put in enough seasoning. Of course was put on that road was robbed by the I came here entirely' independent; I am Government from the Goode Street independent still; and I should have dredging. On the other side of the followed the Government- river are 500 residents who have to walk MR. GARDINER: If you had received the two miles to get to one of Copley's £1,000. boats. Were the Government so flush MR. GORDON: If they had the sense of money that they wanted to throw to lead me. The explanation I would £1,000 away on a road that absolutely give is that, unfortunately, I have a little No Confidence: [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene: 6~v~ER,190.] third day. 1963 bit of conscience left. I could not follow they would give to the country have not them; not only because of the acts which all failed. In one instance they struck they have done, but for the acts they have the nail on the head: I will not say not done, and for the most ignoble position fortunately or unfortunately for the former the Premier takes in this House. He is Government; I will not say whether for a man who will practically stand on his their good or for their injury. But the head if the Labour party tell him to do present Government made one disclosure so. I have it here in black and white. thoroughly and well, that is as regards If the Labour party were to write him, their inability to run this country. [THE " We desire you to call at our office to- PREMIER: Hear, hear.] I might be one morrow morning on your head," I will who would help that innocent, that good, bet he would be there. What does he do ? and that "endeavouring" Ministry. They During the discussion we had here on the are full of promises; though where they 25th September, regarding police uniforms, get their promises from, goodness knows. he got up and said, "JIam entirely opposed I reckon they have a large stock of them. to this motion." That was early in the But that they are full of promises, there evening. Hie went out; and of course the is not the slightest doubt. I should not Labour party-you know they get roused like to close these remarks of mine now and again : they cannot stand too without referring to the member for East much-did not like this at all. The Perth (Hon. WV. H. James). He is not Premier got the whisper, came in and here. He is the outrigger of the apologised, and said, " I will support the Ministry. Of course, I do not want measure." That was about two hours members of the Cabinet to take offence afterwards; and it will he found in at that statement, if "outrigger" is Hansard. There is a pattern for you ! an unusual word. It means that you Through what will he lead you ? He will generally use an outrigger in connection lead you through anything. I might with a bottle-cart. You will see one poor almost take it as a text - " We endeavour horse in the shafts, and a little pony to doright." That has been a little phrase running alongside. The member for East of the Premier's. I do not know where Perth runs alongside the Ministry. Why he got it. I think he started it at the do they put on the outrigger? I got a Town Ball. He got it somewhere, and headache studying the point. Because he has been using it ever since: " We they are overloaded with social legisla- endeavour to do right." That is the way tion, and they want an extra pull. That in which he says it, or something like it. is the reason they put on an outrigger. I I should not like to say it with such am sorry, in a way, to leave such a emphasis as he uses: I might break my promising Ministry' ; but I have only one throttle. (Laughter.) As a sort of con- stand to take in this matter, and solation to the Premier, I may tell him that is to study the interests of the that in the fact that he attempts to do State. I care not whether the public right, he to a certain extent receives some adjudge me wrong in going against the reward. As I was about. to remark- Ministry: but I care whether my' own No endeavour is in vain, conscience tells me I am right or wrong, Its reward is in the doing; and it says I am right. And I will And the rapture of pursuing admit to a certain extent that it is not Is the prize the vanquished gain. without dlue consideration that I have We know he has been pursuing for a taken the determined stand I take now. good many years, and I do not think hie THE PREMIER: When did you make will ever catch the object of his pursuit ; up your mind? but he has " the rapture of pursuing." I MR. GORDON: Do not forget, "fools do not begrudge it to him, I begrudge it rush in." [Opposition laughter.] I think to him not. That is worth something; it is due to me to advise Mr. Leake that but the net result is absolutely nit. Of I make my living out of interjections. course I cannot say we are always in the It is practically my living. Forewarned right: I cannot say the former Govern- is forearmed ; therefore let the Premier ment have always been right. They mnay beware. I made up my mind to take have been wrong at times; and the dis- this stand. The Government, as I closures the present Government said said before, promised in the Queen's 1964 Yo Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.][SEBY] DbttiddyDebate, third day.

Hall to fulfil or attempt to fulfil the ward and say that they will bring forward promises of the former Govwernment. In legislation to improve the condition of this one instance alone, my own case, in the workers; and they know well that the case Ii mentioned of dredging to members see that if the motion is carried the Coode Street jetty, where there are they may have to go back to their elec- 500 people waiting for accommodation, tors. Members get up to speak knowing promised for some time, they have never that they must get the vote of the fulfilled their promise; and why they workers to be returned: they say, "We have put that £1,000 on to that road, I have the interest of the workers at heart leave the public to judge. and will push forward the legislation that MR. T. HAY WARD (Bunbury): It is on the Notice Paper now." I contend was not my intention to have taken part that actions speak louder than words. in the debate, only I wish to correct a The workers read Hansard; they see that statement that I had the papers laid on division after division has been taken to the table with reference to the non- block one of the most necessary measures reinstatement of the railway employees which the workers of the State require, at Bunbury, and that when the papers the Workers' Compensation Bill. I were produced I was satisfied. I am not say without hesitation that the Opposi- satisfied so far, because the Premier has tion have again and again blbcked that not carried out his promise. measure. They allowed the principle to Mn. URsIDE: TIhe lion. member is be adopted; they allowed the clauses to misrepresenting my statement. What I go through Committee, although they said was that I understood the hon. altered one of the most vital clauses, in my member's opinion was different f rom the opinion, in the Bill, and when they got to opinion of the member for the South- the Schedule the member for the Murray West Mining District (Mr. Ewing). (Mr. George) practically stonewalled the MR. H AYWARD: I did not under- measure. The members of the Opposition stand the hion. member in that way. I voted solidly against the measure. H1an- think that anyone who peruses the papers eard Speaks louder than words here, and if will be of the same opinion as myself, and this motion is carried and members go to it cannot be said that the Premier carried their electorates, the workers will vote out his promise. according to the records of Hansard and MR. W. D. JOHNSON (Kalgoorlie): not according to the speeches of those Like other members of the Assembly, 1 members who wish to get the support of did not intend to take part in the debate; the workers on the eve of an election. but as things have gone, I think it is But when these members are returned absolutely necessary that the Labour after an election, they forget all about members should place tbeir views before the workers. We, as a Labour party, the House. The Opposition members, consider that a bird in-the hand is worth those principally aspiring to office, have two in the bush. We kinow that we got uip, one after another, and have taken a have legislation on the Notice Paper, and deep interest in the welf are of the workers, if it wero. not for members on the and have stated that we do not represent Opposition benches some. of the measures Labour truthfully, but that they will look would have been through to-day. We after the interests of the workers provided consider the Leake Administration are they are successful in carrying this motion. sincere in their desire to bring forward Their speeches remind me very much of and pass Labour legislation. It is not electioneering speeches by which men try the desire of Opposition members to see to gain the Labour vote. During election Labour legislation passed; in fact; I go times we-have such speeches made as as far as to say I consider this motion we have heard to-night. We have had has been brought forward to block the members getting up one after another Labour legislation which some members practically touting for the vote of the say they are anxious to see. Labour party, or they have an election in MR. MONGER: Take it at that. view and are making speeches to the MVR.JOHNSON: Much has been said people in their electorates. The workers in connection with the Railway Associa- are alive to the fact that on the eve of an tion and the Conciliation and Arbitration election numerous candidates come for- Act. I interjected to-night, when a No Confldence; [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene; 6NVEMER,190.] third day. 1965

member who defeated a Labour candidate Association--save us from our friends on was speaking, and that member in reply the Opposition benches! to me said he would defeat that can- MR. GEORGE: What have I done? didate again. Mn. QUINLAN: Save us at two hundred MR. EWING: You come down and see. a year. MEMBER: That is his business. MR. GEORGE: Well, he is entitled to MR. JOHNSON: It is his business. that. It may be his business when the election MR. JOHNSON: This motion of want comes on. I say that the party who of confidence, I contend, is an attack, aspire to office, anid who bring down this firstly on the Labour legislation to-day no-confidence motion, are the political on the business paper, secondly on the party who tried to wipe out the Railway appointment of G. W. Davies, and thirdly Association altogether. The member for on the suspension of John Davies. In East Perth (Hon. W. HI. James), it is connect-ion with G. W. Davies I may true, tries to cut up this association. I point out that while members on the agree with the remnarks of the member for front Opposition bench have said it is Albany (Mr. Gardiner). I say the Rail- wrong for the Government to condemn way Association should have the right to John Davies and to drag his name in the register as an association as at present mire, they forget altogether that they, at constituted; and I go farther and say the same time, are dragging the name of that the association should have the righ~t G. W. Davies in the mire. They forget to break up whenever they desire. Take that G-. W. Davies was paid off, practi- myself as a carpenter: I say the executive cally dismissed, without being given any of this association cannot represent me as reason for his dismissal. The present a carpenter. Take the carpenters referred Commissioner of Railways tells us he to to-night as being blocked during the was unable to find in the depart- . late strike and not getting employment mental files a record of any cause afterwards; what are they doing ? They for G-. W. Davies's dismissal from the are working for the Railway Department railway service. Yet Opposition members for 2s. and 3s. a day less than carpenters know that G-. W. Davies, as a matter of outside the department are getting. fact, was dismissed-I was going to say Why? Because the association worked dismissed for nothing, but I believe he for the fettlers first. I say it is right the was dismissed solely because he gave association should have a chance to certain information to the present Coin- register as constituted at the present missioner of Railways. [OPPOSITION time, but with the right to broak up when MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] I do not care they desire. I say, as one who has been whether the statement is correct or not; a unionist all his life, who has taken an but that is what the Opposition infer, interest in unionism all his life, that the that G-. W. Davies was dismissed from timc wil come when the Railway Associa- the railway service because hie gave certain tion will break up of their own accord, information to the present Commissioner and that you will find the boilermaker, of Railways. What, however, was the the engineer, the carpenter, the fettler, finding of the board which sat to inquire the guard, and so forth, in their respective into the case of G-. W. Davies ? Their associations, and at their head an execu- finding gives a different version of the tive as an industrial combination repre- matter altogether. The fact remains, senting the whole of those organisations; nevertheless, that G. W. Davies was whilst the various branches of employment appointed, that the board of inquiry under the Commissioner of Railways tind expressed the opinion that his holding the the Minister for Works will directly position of Secretary to the Commissioner represent their own particular classes of of Railways was not justifiable, and that work. Although the Opposition members the Commissioner of Railways accordingly get up here to state that they take a deep dispensed with Mr. G. WV. Davies's ser- interest in Labour and in the welfare of vices. Now let us get on to Mr. John the Railway Association, and that they Davies. Before I entered the House, I will do this, that, and the other, I say, as have always, in season and out of season, a representative of Labour -and I think condemned the rail way management of I voice the opinions of the Railway this State. I have in the past condemned 1966 No Confidence. [ASSEMBLY.]ASML. Debate,ebttiddy third day.

John Davies in season and out of season; supply him with water at 15s. per 1,000 and I condemn him to-night. The charges gallons. That offer was refused, and the brought by the Commissioner of Railways, department continued to buy water from I admit, were not wholly upheld by the the Kurrawang Company at 60s., and board which inquired into them; and from Mr. Graham Price at 25s. Then therefore I do not base my condemnation the person who made the offer of water of John Davies on those charges. I con- at 15s. per 1,000 gallons to the General demn him by reason of what I have seen Manager, finding he could not sell his with my own eyes in Kalgoorlie. I water to the Railway Department, was purpose to refer to-night to matters which compelled to sell that self-same water to came under my observation. I congratu- Mr. Graham Price at l~s. per 1,000 late the Commissioner of Railways on his gallons; and Mr. Graham Price then suspension of John Davies; and I only re-sold it at 25s. to the Railway Depart- wish he had gone a step farther, and ment. [OPPOSITION MEMBER: What dismissed John Davies altogether. I quantity?] I would like to know consider that John Davies should have whether, during the construction of the been suspended or dismissed long ago; Kurrawang line, water was carted. from and if the member for the Williams had Kalgoorlie and taken up the Kurrawang done his duty lie would, long before he line, and practically handed over to went out of office, have suspended John the Kurrawang Company? I would Davies. like to know whether that water, when MR. GEORGE: The member for the delivered, was paid for by the Govern- Williams is not in the Chamber at ment, or paid for by the Kin-rawang present. Company ? A matter which surprises MR. JOHNSON: In passing, I wish me greatly is that the late Government to point out that a perusal of the report should have allowed the Kurrawang of the board which sat to inquire into the Company to run into their debt to the. charges against John Davies shows that tune of ;Cl-9,000. The Government sup- he is practically exonerated. But in what plied all this material to open up the position does the membei~r the 42-Mile Dam, so that they might obtain Williams stand, then ? What is the a supply of water from the dam. If I position of the member for the Williams, cannot leave it to this House, I will leave who aspires to becm e the Premier of it to the people of the State, to consider this State? I leave it to those who read why the Government, if they could give the report to form their own conclusions the Kurrawang Company credit to the on that point; but I say without hesita- tune of X19,000 for material, could not tion that if the majority of members in have used that £19,000 worth of material this House do not pronounce the member and opened up the dam for themselves. for the Williams unfit to fill the position The Government practically supplied the of Premier of this country, the majority whole of the material required to open up of the electors of Western Australia will the 42-Mile Dam, and took payment for pronounce him unfit. [OPPOSITION MEM- the material in their own water. That is BERs: We shall see that.] Going alittle exactly how the position stands. I into the report of the John Davies board, stated before that I intended to refer to and reading the evidence,. we come to the the management of the railways and to charge relating to purchase of water. the--I will say-manipulations of John As representative of Kalgoorlie, I say that Davies in connection with railway affairs the purchases of water made by John in Kalgoorlie. Reference was made by Davies or by the member for the Williams the Premier to certain blocks of land, on -I care not which of the two--constitute which is built to-day an hotel known as a very bad deal. I know for a positive the Torbay Arms. We find Messrs. fact that when these purchases were Smith, Timms, Davies, Short, and Pat- made, when water was being obtained by terson figuring in this particular deal. the General Manager of Railways at 60s. Looking a little farther into it, we find per 1,000 gallons from the Kurrawang that a proposal was made to shift the Company, and at 25s. per 1,000 gallons goods sheds in connection with Kalgoorlie from Mr. Graham Price, an offer had station. Originally these goods sheds been made to the General Manager to were certainly not in the best position, so No Coufidence. No[6Cnfidnce: NOVEMBER, 1901.] Debate, third day. 196716 far as the railways are concerned; but pipes laid from these tanks in the loco. they were then much nearer the town yards in Kalgoorlie, going over to the than they are to-day. We find, however, Torbay Arms Hotel. This is sufficient that those goods-sheds have been shifted in connection with the Torbay Arms some considerable distance farther from Hotel. The Premier has proved that Kalgoorlie. Hon. members who have mixed up in the Torbay Arms affair were gone by rail to Kalgoorlie know that they Smith, Timmiis, Davies, Short, and Patter- see the goods-sheds in connection with son. Let us go farther. There was a the Kalgoorlie station some considerable determination on the part of the Govern- time before they get to the station itself; mnent to erect stations and to put up that when they have reached the Kalgoor- barriers at Hannans Street, Golden Gate, lie railway station they are still at and other stations. some considerable distance from the MR. TEE SDALE SMITH: I would like to town. I leave it to hon. members to rise to a point of order. The member for judge the distance over which the people Kalgoorlie says Mr. Davies, Mr. Short, of Kalgoorlie, who use the goods shed, Mr. Patterson and myself were interested have to cart their goods. We find that in the Torbay Arms. I wish to give the immediately the proposal to shift the hon. member a deliberate denial that goods sheds was made, these blocks of either Mr. Davies, Mr. Short, or Mr. land in Forrest Street, Nos. 264 and 266, Patterson was ever, as far as I1 am con- were bought as stated. Immediately cerned, interested in the Torbay Arms; after that an hotel was erected. There an absolute denial. (Applause by Oppo- were other hotels in the same street long sition members.) before the Torbay Arms was erected. MR. JOHNSON: I am not in a posi- What do we find next ? We find that a tion to say who built the Torbay Arms, fence is put down the boundary of the or to whom the Torbay Arms belongs. railway line on the opposite side of For- Suffice it to say that the men I quoted rest Street to where the Torbay Arms were interested in blocks 264 and 265 on would be. Barbed wire is put opposite which the Torbay Arms was built. That the whole of the hotels with the exception is all I quote. I do not say these gentle- of the Torbay Arms. [Ministerial men I quoted were interested in the Torbay laughter.] We find letter on letter of Arms, but they were interested in these protest written to ihe Government depart- blocks of land. ment; and many letters were written to the newspapers. One Dufrongon, a MR. TEESDALE SMITH: I say it is abso- Frenchman, the proprietor of the Tellu- lutely wrong. ride Hotel, communicated with his consul, THE PREMIER: T hey are the registered protesting against the shutting out of the proprietors. railway men from his hotel by the putting MR. TEESDALE SMITH: I say at the up of barbcd wire opposite it. The only time he is talking about they had nothing opening left for the railway men, was to do with the Torbav Arms. The opposite the Torbay Arms. That is an arrangemlent he is talking about was absolute fact. At the last general elec- after I had sold to Timms; three or four tion we had a Minister of the Crown, a months after. member of the Throssell Administra- THE PREMIER: They are the owners tion, contesting the Kalgoorlie seat. now. This is put to him, and he says it is MR. TEESDALE SMITH: Smith is not wrong, it is unjust. It has been going the owner now. He says Smith. on for months, though, and he says THE PREMIER: NO. "You shift that wire." To use his own MEMBER: Fair play; one at a time. words, "Take a tin-opener and cut the MR. JOHNSON: I do not know who wire, and I will take the responsibility." is the owner of those blocks now. I say The wire was shifted that night. Let us again that in the purchase of those blocks, go farther. We find that water was 264 and 265, those names were mixed up. bought from the Kurrawang Company at It is difficult to find out who were the 60s. per 1,000 gallons, and taken to the owners. loco. yards tanks at Kalgoorlie. Then MEMBER: Why make the accusation, what do we find', We find a line. of then P~ 1968 No Confidence: [ASSEMBLY.][SEBY] Debate,Dbttiddy third day.

MR. JOHNSON: Let us get down to and I assert rumour has it that the first these facts. transfer was torn up. I give you my MEMBER: Where did you get the infor- statement, and you can take it for what it mation ? is worth. MR. JOHNSON: I got the information OPPOSITION MEM1BER : It is worth from the Titles Office. The Premier nothing. quoted it. Mn. JOHNSON: If it is like many MEMBER: Who gave it to you? of the statements made against the MR. JOHNSON: I have had it a con- Government by Opposition members, it is siderable time. I said when I started not worth much. They have gone into speaking in this debate that I made these rumour time after time. We found the statements long before I was a member member for the Murray taking up hours in of this House. I stated it publicly in this House on the talk of the man in the Kalgoorlie during the election, and I will street some time ago in connection with state it again. one of our Judges. Mn. GEORGE: Prove it. THE PREMIER: H-ear, hear. MnR. CONOR: Do not make false State- Mn. JOHNSON: And when I make ments. this statement he says it is not worth Mn. JOHNSON: So much for the much, but he say s that what he referred to Torbay Arms. If the member for Wel- is worth hours of the time of this House. lington (Mr. Teesdale Smith) is going to Perhaps he did it to delay legislation. speak, let him explain the whole affair. Let us continue. We find that on this I am not going into details and to take particular block; namely 420, at the corner up some hours of the time of the House of Egan Street and Attwood Terrace, a in explaining every matter of detail. I fence was put up, and the course was to simply make the statement and let him be continued right up to the front of the explain it, if he can. Now let us get on hotel. It blocks Hannans Street and it to the Hannans Street station. We find blocks Egan Street as far as the street is there was a determination on the part of concerned. It crosses the street, and the Government to reorganise and to there an opening is made for the thousands generally reconstruct the Boulder line, to of people who travel daily on the Boulder erect buildings and put up barriers. We line to come out right opposite the door find that at the corner of Egan Street and of the Glen Davon Hotel. It is impossible Attwood Terrace there is a block which to go through the fence unless you go to belonged to Laslett. This block is in the front door of this particular hotel. I close proximity to the Hannans Street will give you the plain facts of this, station. I wish to impress upon the because I happen to know all about it. House that previous to the alteration the The people of Kalgoorlie recognised the whole traffic went from Hannans Street injustice that was being done to the main station. Hannans Street is the main street, namely to Hannans Street, and the street of Kalgoorlie. But we find that other hotels in Attwood. Terrace protested this block of land is purchased from Mr. ag~ainst this. Numerous meetings were Laslett by Henry Teesdale Smith. Then held, and deputations came down here it has been proved-I quote this for what and protested against it; but for some it is worth-that the transfer was first considerable time they failed. Hundreds made out in the name of Job n Davies, and and hundreds of pounds were squandered torn up. That is common talk in Kal- on the Hannans Street station in defiance of goorlie. Whether it is correct or not, I the protests of the people; but eventually do not know, but it is said that this the protests of the people were recognised statement emanated from the original by the authorities, and we find that the owner of the land, Mr. Laslett. whole of the work, or practically, the MR. TEESDALE SMITH: I absolutely whole, of the work, done is pulled up. deny that statement. The block was Things are reconstructed, and we find transferred direct to me from the man I that this particular fence, or this par- purchased of. ticular gateway I referred to, opening Mn. JOHNSON: That is not a con- into the hotel, is closed, and an opening tradiction of my statement. I say it was is made somewhere between Egan Street transferred to Mr. Henry Teesdale Smith, and Hannans Street. Let us look farther. ATo Confidence . [6 NOVEMBER, 1901.] NoDebate,onfdene: 6NVEMER,190.] third day. 1969

This is from research in the Titles Office. have been at least suspended, if not Let us look down farther, and we find dismissed, long ago; and I say those this particular hotel is leased for ten facts I have mentioned are sufficient to years to Mary G. Hickey. The hotel was justify me in making these remarks. named the Glen Davon Hotel, and this OPPOSITION MEMBERS: You have not Mrs. Hickey gets a lease for ten years. stated any facts. She goes into that hotel, and it is opened. MR. JOHNSON: We know the crowd But we find that the agitation by the we have to deal with. We know that people of Kalgoorlie has heen successful. they will cover up their tracks, and that We find that this particular opening is it is almost impossible to follow them. blocked, and that the traffic goes on the But we know that the barbed wire was old route, namely down Hannans Street. put in front of all hotels except the Then we find that although Mrs. Hickey Torbay Arms Hotel. We know that takes this lease for ten years pipes were laid from the loco. shops to MR. MONGER: Sling your mud at men; the Torbay, Arms, and we know that the not at women. opening was made in the Hannans Street MR. JOHNSON: I have to state facts. station, running immediately into the We find farther down that it is eventually door of the Glen Davon Hotel. transferred to Paton, Maher, an d Scott, of LAB3OUR MEMBiER: That is right. Perth, owning a brewery in Kalgoorlie. MR. JOHNSON: And I go farther, Mrs. Hickey leaves, and then we find, and defy contradiction to the statement according to a question put in this House, that Mrs. Hickey got a ten years' lease that Mrs. Hickey is travelling on the of the Glen Davon Hotel. When it was railways on a free pass. When the ques- found that the traffic was cut away from tion is asked the Commissioner of Rail- her, I defy contradiction to the statement ways, the answer is given that Mrs. Hickey that she travelled with a free pass on the was looking for a tin trunk which had been railways, and that she got permission to lost. I believe that tin trunk is still lost, open a refreshment room at Fremantle and Mrs. Hickey is still looking for it. station, to my mind illegally. Then we Then we find Mrs. Hickey comes down to find the General Manager states that if Fremantle and permission is given, or a she makes a claim for compensation, she licence is given her, to open a refreshment will get it; and afterwards he withdraws room in the Fremantle Station. This that statement, and Mrs. Hickey does permission is given by the old Forrest not put in a claim for compensation. party, or by the Throssell Ministry. Tlhis Those facts are sufficient to condemn the is one of the legacies left to the present General Manager in my eyes; and I Ministry. But fortunately for the contend that the whole-not a majority country, the present Commissioner of -of the people of Kalgoorlie are equally Railways discovers the little game. He as strong in their condemnation of the cancels the authorisation and says lie will General Manager as they are in their not allow the refreshment room to be approval of the present Ministry; and I established at Fremantle. Then we find have nohbesitatiou.in saying thatlI shall vote Mr. John Davies writes to Mrs. Hickey, against this motion, because the present and states the Government have cancelled Ministry are endeavourin gto purify things. her right to open a refreshment room at They are endeavouring to push labour Fremantle, but they are prepared to legislation, but the Opposition side are pay compensation. That comes to the ears endeavouring to block it. They are of the Commissioner of Railways, who endeavouring to push this country for- calls upon Mr. John Davies to withdraw ward progressively, so that it may equal that statement, and says he does not the other States of Australia; conse- agree to any form. of compensation: if quently we, as Labour men, support the Mrs. Hickey wants compensation, she present Government because we feel we has her alternative. But we find the can trust them, and that we must, in letter is withdrawn by the General view of the past history of members of Manager, and Mrs. Hickey does not the Opposition benches, distrust those come up for her compensation. Now 1 members. Therefore we, as Labour men, said I would state why I consider the are supporters of the present Ministry, General Manager of Railways should and if the motion be carried, we shall be 1970 No Confidence. [COUNCIL.][C NC .]atPrin. East Province. found on the Opposition cross-benchbes. that I will inake inquiries to-morrow, Then, if the leading members of the especially with reference to the water Opposition go as Ministers to the country pipe from the railway station to the and are elected, which I doubt very Torbay Hotel. much-but if they are successful, and if MR. GEORGE: And the fence, too. Be they do carry out the pledges they have fair. made here to try to secure, if n~ot the MR. H. TEESDALE SMITH: What I said votes of members on this Labour bench, was only a personal explanation. It had the votes of the workers outside-then nothing to do with a speech on the they will find the Labour members will motion. support them: not support them. in the MR. F. CONNOR (East Kimberley): manner in which the Opposition have Unless any of the Ministers wish to con- supported the present Government, but tinue this debate, I think it is fair to in season and out of season, so long as adjourn. they go forward to give us as good OPPOSITION MVEMBERS: Hear, hear. administration as the present Ministry MINISTERS: No. are endeavouring to give us. AIR. CONNOR: If Ministers wish to MR. JACOBY: We will give you better. speak, I will waive my motion. If not, MR. JOHNSON: The present Ministry I move that the debate be adjourned. might give us better legislation if you Motion put and passed, and the debate would assist them a little more, instead adjourned. of trying to block them. However, we will support them if they will give us the ADJOURNMENT. same industrial legislation which the The House adjourned at 11V20 o'clock, present Ministry are endeavouring to give until the next day. us, whose efforts are unfortunately being blocked by members of the Opposition. MR. TEESDALJE SMITH (in explana- tion) : I would ask the Commissiouer of Railways to telegraph to Kalgoorlie for information to contradict the statements made by the last speaker. I deny that the opening in the fence is, as stated by him, in front of the hotel. As far as I recollect, the opening is in front of the street that goes past the hotel, and that also at the other end, nearer Kalgoorlie, is the main road out for all the teams. I say the opening as mentioned by the hon. member is not, and never has been, in front of the hotel; and I ask the Commissioner of Railways, in all Thursday, 7th November, 1901. fairness, to send a telegramn to-inorrow, ask exactly where these openings are. New Member (East Province)-Adjourument: the No- and Confidence Debate. MR. JOHNSON: I also ask the Commissioner to send a wire, not to THE PRESIDENT took the Chair at where the openings are -at the ascertain 4-30 o'clock, p.m. present time, but where they were situ- ated when the Glen Davon Hotel was opened. I made those charges in refer- PRAYERS. ence to the time of the opening of the M1EMBER (EAST PROVINCE). Glen Davon Hotel. I refer to the time NEW when Mrs. Hickey was in charge of that THLE PRESIDENT reported the return hotel. Since then, things have been of election writ issued by him for the altered through the agitation of the people~ vacancy in the East Province, caused by of Kalgoorlie. the death of the Hon. H. Lukin; and THE COMMIS'SIONER OF RAIL- that Mr. F. T. Crowder had been duly WAYS: I can promise the hon. member elected.