16Th MAY 2013
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STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT THURSDAY, 16th MAY 2013 PUBLIC BUSINESS – resumption ..............................................................................................3 1. The Reform of Social Housing (P.33/2013): fifth amendment (P.33/2013 Amd.(5)) - resumption........................................................................................................................3 1.1. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade: .....................................................................................3 1.1.1 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:.....................................................................................................4 1.1.2 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement: ........................................................................6 1.1.3 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour: ........................................................................6 1.1.4 Senator S.C. Ferguson: ...................................................................................................7 1.1.5 Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade: ....................................................................................7 1.1.6 Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence:..................................................................................8 1.1.7 Senator A. Breckon: .......................................................................................................9 1.1.8 Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier: ................................................................................10 1.1.9 Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:............................................................................10 1.1.10 Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade: ...........................................................................11 1.1.11 Senator P.M. Bailhache:...........................................................................................12 1.1.12 Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary:........................................................................12 1.1.13 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ........................................................................................13 1.2 The Reform of Social Housing (P.33/2013): third amendment (P.33/2013 Amd.(3)) ..16 1.2.1 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:.............................................................................................16 1.2.2 Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier:...............................................................................18 1.2.3 Senator S.C. Ferguson: .................................................................................................20 1.2.4 Deputy J.H. Young:......................................................................................................20 1.2.5 Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:...............................................................................21 1.2.6 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:...................................................................................................21 1.2.7 Deputy G.P. Southern:..................................................................................................23 1.2.8 The Connétable of St. Peter: .........................................................................................24 1.2.9 Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:.........................................................................................25 1.2.10 Deputy S. Power: .....................................................................................................26 1.2.11 Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:..........................................................................27 1.2.12 The Connétable of St. John: .....................................................................................27 1.2.13 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:........................................................................................29 1.2.14 Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:..............................................................................29 1.2.15 Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. John: ...............................................................................31 1.2.16 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ........................................................................................31 1.3 The Reform of Social Housing (P.33/2013) - as amended.............................................34 1.3.1 Deputy G.P. Southern:..................................................................................................34 1 1.3.2 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:..............................................................................................39 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..........................................................................40 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................................................40 1.3.3 Senator S.C. Ferguson: .................................................................................................40 1.3.4 Deputy M. Tadier: ........................................................................................................41 1.3.5 Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter: ...................................................................................42 1.3.6 Deputy J.A. Martin:......................................................................................................44 1.3.7 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:...................................................................................................46 1.3.8 Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen:......................................................................................48 1.3.9 Deputy S. Power:..........................................................................................................50 1.3.10 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ........................................................................................51 1.3.11 Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................................................52 1.3.12 The Connétable of St. Mary: ....................................................................................54 1.3.13 Deputy S. Pinel of St. Clement:................................................................................55 1.3.14 Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin:...............................................................................55 1.3.15 Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................................................55 1.3.16 Senator I.J. Gorst: ....................................................................................................59 1.3.17 Deputy T.A. Vallois: ................................................................................................60 1.3.18 Deputy A.K.F. Green: ..............................................................................................62 ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS .............................67 2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): .................................................................................................................67 2.1 Senator I.J. Gorst:.........................................................................................................67 2.2 Senator A. Breckon: .....................................................................................................67 ADJOURNMENT.......................................................................................................................67 2 [9:30] The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. PUBLIC BUSINESS – resumption 1. The Reform of Social Housing (P.33/2013): fifth amendment (P.33/2013 Amd.(5)) - resumption The Greffier of the States (in the Chair): Debate resumes on the amendments to the Reform of social housing, P.33/2013. We were debating part 2 of the fifth amendment in the name of Deputy Le Fondré and Deputy Power was next on the Bailiff’s list if he is ready to speak. 1.1. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade: I did not realise I was first out of the blocks this morning but I shall summon my brain and kick it into gear. I am not going to support this amendment and I would like to tell Members why. I agree and accept in principle that we do need to have a uniform gateway, a uniform set rent approach for all the social housing providers across the Island. I would also say that not only will it apply to the States stock of housing but to the providers, to the trusts and to the private rental sector, as and where this will apply. I think it is important that we remember that. For any trust to want to opt out of this, or for any other mechanism to be introduced to allow anyone to opt out of this, in my view, is not appropriate. I would like to read. I think it is really relevant to remind Members of the comments by the Council of Ministers to the second part of the fifth amendment. It is at the bottom of page 2 and if Members will bear with me while I read this because I think it sums it up absolutely relevantly. It says: “The amendment suggests that because the financial models of the different social housing providers will vary, there is no need for the introduction of a requirement to charge a fair rent level [this is the uniform approach] and refers to the Income Support findings and recommendations within the Health, Social Security and Housing Sub-Panel’s report. However [and I think these next 2 paragraphs are very important] it is important to remember that the housing trusts as a whole have yet to commission independent professional condition surveys of their properties to see