Thad Jones and Mel Lewis

•• Thad Jones and Mel Lewis We’re just two lucky guys

As co–leaders of this band, ing for other people. We’ve—as grabbed all our friends—people we would you say it had a spe- they say. . . love, admire and respect as musi- cial significance at the pres- Jones: We’ve paid our dues. cians, that we like to play with. We ent time? Lewis: And we all came to New said: “Come on; you come with us, Jones: Well, there really is no par- York, settled down, and fell into the you know. ticular significance attached to the studio situation. All of a sudden Jones: But you know what? I have band, other than the fact that we just we’ve realised that life is getting to sort of embellish that. We weren’t want to play good music for people, shorter, and we never have stopped all friends, in the beginning. We and play it as well as we know how. wanting to play. were acquaintances who respected We want to present our music to the Jones: To play good—and even each other as individuals and musi- people, and we hope they enjoy it as better than good. Just to continually cians. The friendship came through much as we enjoy playing it for do better all the time, and improve our association together with our them. That would have to be it, and I upon whatever performances we’ve band. And it developed into such a m sure Mel will agree with me on given with our past associates. beautiful, strong thing. that. Lewis: Above all, we want to play; Lewis This is really a friendly band, Lewis: Yes—we’re all men that have for the rest of our lives, actually. It’s actually. Everybody’s become quite been in the music business a long something you never want to stop attached to each other. There’s no time; we’ve all been on the road doing. And the only way something separation of several guys here and with other bands, and have done a like that can be done is: somebody several guys there; everybody’s in it lot of nice things in the past, work- has to take the bull by the horns. together and sort of hangs with each That’s what Thad and I did; and we

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 1 of 17 other. It’s a togetherness band. But It sounds like we’re bragging, doesn’t matter; we know it, and they’re all men. doesn’t it? we’re two of the happiest guys in the Jones: That’s first; if they weren’t Lewis: Well, we are bragging, in a world right now. men, they wouldn’t be able to per- way. Jones: We’ve both been sidemen in form the way they do on their in- Jones: Oh, these guys are so beauti- other bands for practically all of our struments, or the way they do so- ful. You wouldn’t believe it. I stand musical lives; we’ve never really cially. behind what I say: this is the most done the things that we wanted to do Lewis: We like to feel that this band beautiful bunch of men that I’ve as individuals. When you play with represents musical maturity. Each ever been associated with in my life. somebody else, you always try to fit man knows what’s happening; he’s Without a shadow of a doubt. that particular mould, to give what is paid his dues, he’s learned, and he’s Lewis: I would say the same thing. in you to give within whatever’s reached a certain point. Of course, Jones: This takes in everything that going on. I worked for that band- there’s no such thing as ever know- we’ve talked about, or want to talk leader; I gave him what he wanted. ing it all; you’re always learning. about. Everything that we want to do This is the type of attitude that I’ve But every man is a master in his own and have done. It’s fantastic. come to expect; otherwise you’ll right; he knows his job. And that’s Lewis: I don’t think any two guys never be able to give one hundred so important today. could be as lucky as Thad and I, as per cent of you. And any band must Jones Knowledge by itself is a far as having something that you can do this, in order to be an orchestra, beautiful thing, but there has to be be proud of till your dying day. The to play as one. that additional factor of accumula- kind of thing you dream about. And Lewis: What makes it nice, too, for tion. The knowledge that you have most people would never attempt it, the fellows that are with us is that means nothing unless you can con- because they’d figure: “Oh, it they do it automatically. They’re stantly add to it; otherwise it’ll stag- couldn’t happen.” But it can. We’ve conforming to us, like we always nate and just remain dormant. This proved it—to ourselves, anyway. If tried our best to please the person we is the way the guys are, in our band. somebody else doesn’t believe it, it worked for and to do what they had ______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 2 of 17 in mind. But to do what we have in Lewis: The same goes for Jerome, fortable for him. Every soloist in this mind isn’t taking as much effort the lead alto. They all play our way. band plays differently, as well as from the men we have in the band, Jones: These are our idols, the peo- marvellously, and in our back- because we know that they happen ple we’ve wanted to hear work to- grounds we get into different to do these things In other words, gether as soloists and section–men grooves behind the various guys. they’re doing what they really want for all these years. And Thad is part of our rhythm sec- to do. So they don’t have to bend Lewis And they in turn are playing, tion, too. You know, he conducts the that far—or to bend at all, actually. in the kind of music that Thad rhythm section in such a way, when Jones: Every concept that we have writes, just what they like most. he hears some patterns that’ll fit in mind fits them as individuals, and Jones: Yet I never write anything to beautifully behind what a guy is also as people that play collectively fit any particular person. All they do playing, he’ll signal; so the three of as sections. We’re very compatible. is interpret the music their way, and us just open up our eyes and watch Lewis: Like our lead trumpet; their way will fit the concept of the him. Oh, sometimes we get all Snooky’s a founder member. He’s band. Whatever they want to play is messed up, and we laugh. We have our man. beautiful. If the adjustment must be so much fun, just trying to come up Jones: He’s only the greatest first made on the rest of the band’s parts, with something new each time, trumpet player in the world. then that will be made. Or if the so- that’ll give the soloist a good boot Lewis: But he already plays the way loist’s part must be adjusted, that just at the right time. we want. He doesn’t have to try to will be done. With no sweat. It’s as No arrangement is ever the same play that way; he’s our favourite. easy as that. That’s what I mean by twice; it’s a different version every And Al is the greatest back–up man compatibility. time we play it. for Snooky; you couldn’t want a Lewis: As you’ve probably noticed, Jones That s the beauty of the better one. the rhythm section adjusts to each whole thing, because we don’t have Jones: You couldn’t find better. soloist. We never do anything be- to do it the same way every time. hind anybody that would be uncom- We can always change it, because ______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 3 of 17 Mel is such a superb musician. As a So you’d say that the band doesn’t necessarily have to be a drummer, he’s a horn player and a constitutes a fruition of all touring band, although it is at the section player, in that he knows how our earlier experiences. As moment. Most of the year it isn’t— to construct, to form and to mould well as knowing how to run but we’d love it to be. I love travel, things into a pattern. And this is so a band, you know how not to and I think a band really gets itself helpful in what I m trying to do out run a band. together on the road. there. In fact, we sort of give each Jones: Well, we haven’t turned our Lewis: But I’ve got to emphasise other little eye signals. He’ll drop an back on anything. one thing here. We are not a re- eye on me every now and then, and I Lewis: We re learning all the time, hearsal band. We’re an organised, know he’s saying: “Well, that won’t and I think now we both realise what living, working band. We don’t even work.” some of the people we worked for rehearse; we play every week. Lewis: He popped one on me to- went through. We also know, having Jones: We have never been a re- night. I couldn’t fall into it, and I been sidemen for them. that we have hearsal band. The band wasn’t was trying. our own ideas on, say, their ap- formed just to rehearse. This is a Jones: It cracks us up every time it proach to the musicians. But then point we’ve discussed many times. happens, because we know that we again, times were a little different Lewis: We were tagged with that in tried to get it and that time it didn’t then. Things have changed since the beginning, because that’s what work. Next time. . . Thad and I got of the road. It’s not we were thought to be. Naturally, Lewis: It’ll happen. We don’t know the same situation in today’s music when we first organised four years when we’re going to try it again, but scene. Back in those days we were ago, all we did was rehearse. But, we’ll make it next time. It’s always a on the road every night, playing actually, we only had four rehearsals laugh: “I just can’t find it—forgive mostly dances—and we were in jazz and then we went to work, and the me. I’ll go along the way I’m going; bands. band has been working ever since. I can’t fall into, that’s all.” But bet- Jones Yes, we did a fantastic Jones: Six rehearsals. ter we have fun trying, though. amount of one–nighters. This ______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 4 of 17 Lewis: All right, six—I take it back. Jones: We used to call midnight re- home at six and had to be back in Still, you have to rehearse before hearsals—and nobody missed. their studio jobs by nine or ten a.m. you start. Now we rehearse very Lewis Everybody’d be there. They’d And it wouldn’t matter to them at rarely—only when we have new be putting in their whole day at all. music. work; they finished rehearsing at Crescendo Vol.8 , No. 3 , P 20 , Oct. 1969 four or five in the morning, got

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 5 of 17 0ur happy band by THAD JONES. . .

The band is really sounding at that’s a very extended tour for a big really maintain a band. As I said—so its best now, I think, because we’ve band; also our longest stay in far it’s worked out pretty well. maintained this actual personnel for Europe. Our visit to Russia was abso- more than a year now; so we’ve all Out of that, we’re doing three lutely fantastic. We spent five weeks sorta melded together. The commu- weeks here in London—the extra there, playing six cities. And each nication is running much stronger week at Ronnie’s being due to the one was so outstanding—the re- now, the sound is big, and all the Isle of Man Festival postponement. sponse to the band was overwhelm- cats in the band like working to- We were very sorry to read about the ing. The people were so friendly, in gether. tragedy. I’m very sympathetic with giving; you know, they reached out As for the reports of our going the promoter; it must have been a to us as we reached out to them with full–time—well, in actuality, the great blow to him, but perhaps he the music. It was just a wonderful band always has been a full–time can re–establish it for next year. I experience for everybody in the proposition. But lately we’ve think it would be a marvellous thing. band—and I hope it was for the peo- changed agencies, and our new Anyway, it’s always good to sit ple in Russia, too. We made a lot of agent has gone all out one hundred down in one place for three weeks. I friends there, and we’ve sorta main- per cent to get the band bookings. So appreciate that very much; you don’t tained contact with them for the past far he’s done just a magnificent job. get a chance to do that normally. year. For someone who’d never been On this particular trip, for instance, You know, situations being what there before, such as myself and we will have been working on the they are, it’s best for a band to be quite a few of the other members of Continent and in Great Britain for a constantly moving, and one–nighters the orchestra, it was a very exhila- total of five weeks and one day. And seem to be about the best way to

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 6 of 17 rating thing to happen. Very heart– just have the first movement of it, was with Count Basie. However, we warming. that we maintain in our repertoire. all respected, admired and loved We haven’t made any live re- It’s a great piece of music; we felt him, and the Suite was a tribute to cordings lately. We had hoped to do that it deserved to be part of the him. that here, but unfortunately contracts “Suite For Pops”, being repre- Unfortunately, though, the al- were held up legally, and there sentative of the band’s sound. Gary bum hasn’t been released. It would seems to have been a sort of a shift was a great fan of ours; he had have been on A&M, but it won’t be, in the power structure in different worked with Mel and I when we because they decided—for whatever places; I understand it’s going on all were with Gerry Mulligan, and he reason—to cancel all of their jazz over. This creates a delay for us that wrote quite a few things for that artists. And a lot of people know of doesn’t really do too much good. It band. So we got to be pretty good this album; they keep asking me, but hasn’t harmed us to a great degree so friends. I can’t tell them anything, as regards far, but not having a record on the Yes, “Suite For Pops” is in a definite release date. Which be- market in time can be a little bit memory of Louis Armstrong, repre- comes embarrassing—and it makes harmful to you. senting his way of life, and perhaps me angry. Because, you know, we re- a short history of what his life may I think we’ll record with this corded an album called “Suite For have been like. Although we didn’t line–up fairly soon. As a matter of Pops”. Which, incidentally, included come in too much personal contact fact, practically the same personnel a tune written by Gary McFarland, with him; I first met him many years was on the “Suite For Pops” album; who died shortly after the record ago, but our trails hardly ever the direction that things seem to be was made. A tragic loss—because crossed while we were on the road. going in right now is that it will he was such a great writer, such a Even with Basie; he and Basie were probably be released through an- brilliant musician. He had started great friends, but I think we came in other company. So we’ll just have to writing a suite for the band, called contact with one another maybe wait and see. I hate to say that “Toledo By Candlelight”, and we twice during the nine years that I

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 7 of 17 again—I’ve said it too many times musicians coming out of schools what I have in my head, in my ears, already! now, and they have to have a place heart and mind, I have to surround I’d say the style of the band is to play. While they’re in school, big myself with. And I’m pretty sure pretty well established now. What- bands are what they are orientated they feel the same way. I can’t count ever music we play, it’s gonna come in. If there are no bands around, they the number of musicians that I’ve out a certain way. Once you get a eventually go into rock bands. had coming to me, asking if there’s group of musicians working together That’s why you’ve found such a an opening in the band. But right over a certain period of time, they high quality of rock music in, I’d now, our personnel is pretty well set; automatically phrase things specifi- say, the last two years. They’re so I have to tell them, unfortunately, cally enough to indicate the band’s really very accomplished jazz musi- there isn’t, and I can’t even give style. So it doesn’t matter what cians playing it. So, with the main- them the hope of a possibility. we’re playing—the style, the iden- tenance of these bands, and the for- In the future there will be a lot tity comes through. And the free- mation of new ones all the time, the more bands being formed—you can dom? Definitely—that’ll never quality of the big bands will gradu- count on it. The future of big bands change. ally become higher and higher. And is on the rise. For instance, in North I see definite signs of greater you’ll find a lot more bands just Texas State they have seventeen acceptance for an out–and–out jazz poppmg up, seemingly out of no- bands. That’s a phenomenal number band. The very fact that bands like where. of musicians—all interested in jazz Basie, Ellington. Woody Herman, These are truly dedicated play- and all very, very good. I’m very Stan Kenton have been able to sus- ers, who love the music that they’re optimistic. As a matter of fact, I’ve tain themselves over a number of involved in; they’ve been trained to never been a pessimist, as far as mu- years has really encouraged a lot of do this, and they’ve applied them- sic is concerned. There’s always younger musicians to the extent that selves very diligently. They want to something out there, in front. they feel that there is a future for find the vehicle to express what it is them in music. And there’s so many that they have in their heads. Like,

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 8 of 17 . . . and MEL LEWIS

I’m happier than ever with the means. I guess we’re all playing we’ve got more people on our side band —I think it’s the best we’ve with a little more drive. Yet we can now. ever been. We’ve got the same per- be as subtle as we always were, too. We’re going to continue and sonnel we had last time we were Most of my jazz work is done continue with this, because it’s our here—that’s a year–and–a–half with this band now. But I’ve been love. It’s what we always wanted; ago—except for Butter Jackson. playing a lot of jazz lately, doing a it’s keeping Thad and myself young, He’s having some dental work done, lot of small group work. When I say and all of us happy. When Thad and and that’s the only reason he’s not a lot, I mean more than usual, more I went into it, people thought we here. Although his replacement is a than ever, but it’s still intermittent. were crazy. These are dumb years to marvellous player, a young musician First call is still the big band—which be starting big bands. Neither one of who’s probably a future member of is working a lot more than it ever us have what you’d call any money. this band, if and when somebody did. Things are really happening for But we’ve gotten a lot of help from leaves. His name is Steve Turre— us now. It’s looking up–and–up; I people,—who believed in us, who’d it’s a Mexican–Italian name. Or Ital- feel pretty happy about it. I think our just jump in and say or do the right ian–Mexican—I’m not sure which. time has finally come. things. A lot of the writers, and all I believe I’m playing stronger It s been a long, hard climb, that, have all jumped on our band- now. As I want to, because it’s a but I think we’ve gotten there. I wagon, and been kind to us. That’s harder bag, you know; the band mean, we’re not at the top, as re- been important. Whereas so many swings harder than we’ve ever done. gards acceptance, but we’re proba- other people have paid for that, It’s still very loose and relaxed, as bly one of the best at what we do when they don’t really deserve it it’s always been; it’s not stiff, by any and, for the size of the audience, sometimes. Of course, some do. But ______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 9 of 17 we can’t afford press agents, and commerciality is mostly the fun and music for it—and that’s usually things like that, who can keep your the laughs; we have a lot of humour what you have to do to make it. It’s activities in the paper every day, in this band—which is not contrived. the last thing in the world we’re make you a household name. It’s It’s actually just fun. We have some gonna do. much slower this way. little bits we do, that have come Also there’s been our refusal to along, that we think the audience do real commercial things. Our enjoys, but we haven’t sacrificed our

And a word from the oldest member CLIFF WEATHER

There are four or five of us, I an influx of more than one or two lot of years. I’ve had such a varie- think, who have been with Thad and men at one time; so they’re taken gated career. Mel since the band’s inception. But along with the mainstream as they You know, it’s a funny thing, somehow, the timbre of the band come in. though—I really don’t consider that never seems to change. Even though Yes, you can safely say I’m the the old days were the best days. It we’ve replaced a lot of men, we oldest member of the band—way seems to me that these are the good have great men all the time. The key oldest. I’m seventy. I have a hard old days. Oh, I remember humorous factor almost always is Thad’s writ- time feeling that way, but when I things that happened to me when I ing. Well, Bobby Brookmeyer wrote look at the calendar I have to admit was younger, and sometimes a some charts, too; they play the same it. I started professionally back when bunch of the guys get around and charts in the same way. It may also I was eighteen or twenty—that’s a want to know something about ‘35 be due to the fact that we don’t get or ‘45, the different bands, and dif-

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 10 of 17 ferent situations you’ve been con- plays a very important part in the But now, everything is cool. fronted with. But I certainly don’t band. You can clam the hell out of any- regret getting old—because it hasn’t While I was playing all these thing, and all it is is a big joke. Thad hit me yet. high solos, I thought to myself: knows that nobody feels worse about I’m still healthy, and physi- “Boy, wouldn’t these sound great a mistake than the man who made it; cally my playing power hasn’t di- down an octave?” I’d been on CBS so he never leans on anybody, and minished—that’s for sure. staff for fifteen years, when the nor does Mel. We just kid each other As a matter of fact, I have to Garry Moore Show came in, and about it—really it isn’t that impor- work less hard now to keep in shape. they needed a fourth trombone. But tant. You can’t play fifteen to twenty When I was younger I was noted for we didn’t have one an the staff. And thousand notes every night, and have being a high trombone player, and the contractor said to me: “Do you them all right. there’s a lot of pressure on you when think you’d like to play bass trom- Originally, all I did was you’re playing first chair all the bone?” I said: “I’d love to.” So I straight work—with the Firestone time. I played first trombone on the bought one, and that’s how it hap- Orchestra, the Wallenstein, Howard Lucky Strike Hit Parade radio and pened; I’ve been so happy with it Barlow, Andre Kostelanetz, Percy TV show for twenty–five years. But ever since. Made more money, too! Faith. I was playing first trombone I’ve found, with the bass trombone, The change–over was good for on all those big–selling Columbia since you’re in the low register most me—particularly with this band. It records by Andre Kostelanetz. of the time, that there isn’t that isn’t as if you’re playing in a sym- Kostelanetz is a demanding worry and tension of high playing. phony, or a staff orchestra, where conductor—if you don’t play well. There is the tension of the fact that you have certain things that you But if you play well, he’s the easiest it’s sort of become a glamour in- know are difficult, and if you miss guy in the world to get along with. I strument lately; they feature bass them it isn’t good. Because every don’t mean only as far as your capa- trombone quite a bit—in its own note you play under those conditions bilities are concerned, but your at- scope, not so much a solo part. It is an audition almost. tention, and your desire to play well.

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 11 of 17 That’s all he wants, for a band to be actually played very softly—that’s cause the jazz players have learned businesslike—not to kid around, why the engineers had so much enough to respect the straight ones, tune up, or to freeload, as we call it. control over it. It gave me a very and the straight men have heard jazz Everybody’s there tn make a buck, keen sense of dynamics. players perform in a way that they and we don’t have any illusions I think a band playing softly is can’t. Or maybe could, but they about setting the world on fire, as far a beautiful thing. Unfortunately peo- don’t. So there’s a deep mutual re- as new–type jazz or anything. Al- ple don’t want to listen to it—they’d spect. I have deep respect for sym- though Kosty did inaugurate a really rather keep quiet themselves. But we phony men. Of course, my problem new type of music, with his concert do it in this band a great deal. is: in symphonic circles I’m known arrangements of Gershwin, Richard Thad is a fabulous director. as a jazzman; in jazz circles I’m Rodgers and so forth. And he knows every nuance of known as a long–hair! But he’s an exceptional man, every arrangement in the book. As Another very good jazz band I as regards recording. I remember he does Mel—he’s very remarkable worked with was Vic Schoen, who was one of the first men to use a sin- that way, as a drummer, too. In fact, had the Patti Page show. But almost gle microphone at the other end of he’s one of the few drummers I any good radio or TV orchestra is the studio, with only one mike up in know like that—he knows all the turned into a jazz band by the charts the orchestra for close–up pur- brass figures, everything. It’s really that come through. If they’re with poses—and usually that was only remarkable. I was amazed, the first the Supremes or Peggy Lee, or any- used for things like cup mutes or a time I played with him—the first body with great charts, those or- sub–tone clarinet. It was his conten- drummer I ever knew do that. He’s chestras can play that way, too. The tion that the band should balance it- very musical. idea is to be pliable, and be able to self. His favourite saying was: “If Once there were marked divi- accept all different kinds of music. you can’t hear the soloist, you’re sions between jazz players and playing too loud.” And that band straight players. Not any more—be- Crescendo Vol 12, No. 3, P 20, Oct. 1973

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 12 of 17 “lt’s unlike any other big band ever. . . “ EARL GARDNER, lead trumpet with Mel Lewis

This book (The Mel Lewis of those kind of lead men, that constant, and there’s not much place Jazz Orchestra) is gruelling in a lot scream up around double C and do to stretch out; everything’s pretty of respects, but it doesn’t compare to that all night. I stay in a certain much more structured. the books of Buddy Rich or Woody range, and I can pound for a while. So there’s all kinds of different Herman—they’re different style Yes, it is a demanding book— things in the book involving differ- books. I mean, I don’t think I could but there are spaces in charts. The ent ways of playing. It’s demanding have played all the lead on those funny thing about the book. . . in but it’s fun. Sometimes Mel says: bands; there were a whole lot of certain spots. . . when we come in on “Let’s call an easy set.” We sit there other things that had been estab- an ensemble thing, you’re pumping, saying: “That’s impossible—there is lished. Like when Jon Faddis is and blowing your brains out for no easy set on this band!” He says: playing the lead with Thad and thirty–two bars; then you’ll get a “We’ll give you a break—we won’t Mel—I can’t do what Jon does; not break, where at least you get some call anything hard.” Well, I’d defy too many people can. With Woody, blood back in your chops, till you him to make up a set of tunes that Dave Stahl was another great lead come back in on the next thirty–two aren’t hard. What he thinks isn’t player, and I couldn’t do what he bars. Thad’s charts are usually like hard—it’s still hard. “Let’s do this does either. As for Buddy’s band, that—they give you a little bit of one—this isn’t too hard on you is they had so many different cats go- space here and there. Whereas the it?” “Not as hard as some, but it still ing through the band—I’m not one way Brookmeyer writes—his are kills me. It’s hard to keep your

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 13 of 17 chops up for this gig—for me, any- end of the tour—or not even that Lewis Orchestra. For a couple of way. Because I’m the kind of player long; maybe after about four days or years, you’d see people and they’d that has to play—I’m not a big prac- so—they’re feeling great, and you say: “I heard the band broke up.” “I ticer or anything. When I have the feel like you can play anything. don’t know, but we’re still playing time off, I don’t sit around and prac- Then the tour’s over, you go back to at the Vanguard on Monday.” It was tise. Besides, practice chops are dif- New York, and hopefully you’re kind of rough; Monday nights would ferent from gig chops. If I practised doing some gigs and stuff. So you’re be really slow, because people didn’t for three hours a day, I could get to a still playing, but it’s not nearly the think the band was still together. But certain level, but it’s still not like same thing; it’s falling short. I play Mel kept it going, and made the playing a gig until I’ve done that. third trumpet on this Broadway band the focal point. He was not out I had a month when Mel had show—it’s got nothing to do with front; he was laying it down and gone to Europe and the band wasn’t this thing. But it’s playing—it’s swinging, and we were just riding on playing at all. I’d sit there and prac- better than sitting at home doing top of him. He was going with us, tise—put in an hour or two hours nothing. and we were going with him just every day. After a month, you get to Sure, I’d love to do more with playing, having a good time, and the the gig, and your chops feel great for Mel. Not so much on the road, but band developed. maybe two or three tunes; then, all just in general. It’d be great if this This band as it is now has ba- of a sudden— “But they felt great— band could work three or four times sically been the same personnel for what happened?” You have to, like, a week in town or something, you about five years. As you know, get your sea legs. know. But I guess it’s a pipe there’s always a big turnover in It’s like when we come out on dream—unless Mel opens up a club bands. It speaks for Mel and for the the road. The first couple of days on of his own! music—it’s a musicians’ band. The the road, your chops will feel all The problem time was after public—they like the band, but they right; then, as it goes on, they start Thad left—of course, we had always don’t understand the stuff as much, feeling stronger and stronger. By the been known as the Thad Jones/Mel maybe, as the musicians. They all

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 14 of 17 say: “Hey, I’d like to sub on the playing. Meanwhile, whoever was together for a week; so we get in band some time. “ handling the business didn’t know there, and just scream and wail. Or It’s different—it’s like a family what they were doing. When you get on the road, after we’ve been out for really. I’ve been on the band for to a town, and there’s no hotel reser- a few days. To capture the essence, twelve years; our lead alto, Dick vations for the band, that’s not so you’ve got to hear the band in per- Oatts, and another saxophone player, good! But the band’s great, and it’s son. Richie Perry, got on the band about fun to play—sometimes it doesn’t When you’re recording, if a year after me. As for lead trom- seem like it, but it is. something messes up, you stop and bone John Mosca, he’s been on Getting it on to a record is an- fix it here, fix it there, change the around fourteen years; Earl McIn- other thing. The live ones at the balance—and it loses the impact, the tyre, the bass trombonist, has been Vanguard come closest, but, even spontaneity. I haven’t really listened there for fifteen or sixteen—he and so, it’s hard to do that. The only way to any of the albums we’ve done. I Mosca are the two senior members is: you’ve got to hear the band live; listen to them once—like, after we of the band at this point. Yes, it’s a you have to see the band in action— get a tape or something—and then I family band; it’s unlike any other up there acting crazy, jumping won’t listen to it again, because it big band ever, I think. around, and just enjoying it most of just isn’t the same. All Mel wants to do is play the time. You don’t really capture This band lives with its charts; drums and swing. He’s always going the band on records; it’s not the after we learn them and develop to be a sideman—he’s a rotten same—it’s not really recording the them they sound totally different. leader! He’s one of the guys—that’s band. When we record, the band We did this live album in Mon- it. Which is great, but when it comes sound good, but it’s not that feel, treux—Don Menza did all these down to business it’s not that great! that energy. The best place to hear Herbie Hancock tunes, and we only It was just the same way with him the band is at the Vanguard on Mon- got the charts maybe two weeks be- and Thad—both of them were rotten day nights, when everybody’s loose fore we recorded the album. If you at business. All they cared about was and relaxed, and we haven’t played listen to the album and then go and

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 15 of 17 hear the band play the same charts time. I did a week at the Blue Note But playing a Broadway show, now, we play them quite differently with Gene Harris Big Band that was you’re not going to swing. You’re now. Because we learned it, we fun, because he had done this great playing music behind whatever’s know how the chart goes, and the “Tribute To Basie” album. I’d never happening up onstage. The orchestra phrasing’s different. If I listened to heard of Gene Harris. They were is an important part of it, but it’s not the record now, I would point out a saying: “He played with the Three the featured thing. They don’t want lot of spots: “Oh, we don’t play this Sounds”—I never heard of them ei- you to out–front too much; so you like that any more.” You’ve got to ther. can only get into it in a limited way. live with a chart for a while. I was playing lead—it was It’s just a different style. The last album we did, we had supposed to be me and Faddis, Lau- I do a TV show in New York, pretty much played the charts for a rie Frink and Glenn Drewes. We did Saturday Night Live—it’s like a few months before we recorded the rehearsal, and Faddis was out of rock ‘n’ roll band. It’s one trumpet, them; so they’re much more to- town; he wasn’t going to make it for three saxes and one trombone—a gether. Even so, there are still little the first couple of days, and I played great band, considering. With Steve changes here and there that we’ve lead. As I said, it was all Basie stuff, Turre on trombone and Alex Foster made: “Let’s do it this way now.” and Basie’s—like, that’s the hand. on alto, it’s like a small jazz band So, from a record, it’s hard to know And from the first tune we hit, it was also. Anyhow, I’m into pop music— what the band sound like. just great. That was the closest band I like: funk and stuff like that; it’s Most of the music I play away I’ve played with to this—I had al- not like I’m just a total jazz freak. I from the band is not inferior—it’s most as much fun playing wise. Mu- grew up on Tower Of Power and just different. It’s programme music; sically, it was nothing complicated Blood, Sweat And Tears. In fact, I it serves its purpose, and you play it. or anything just straight–ahead stuff. probably knew more about that than There’s nothing that compares to Frank Wess had done the charts, and jazz at that time. When I first started playing this music, although you can it was very enjoyable. playing with the band, I was like a come close—you can have a good fish out of water, because I’d never

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 16 of 17 listened to that much jazz per se. It enough already. Basically, if it’s to hear it. “ Just groove on it; don’t was pretty much split up, and more good, that’s all I care about—if it’s try and analyse it, because it’s all towards rock and funk than the jazz not bull. . . I can’t listen to bull. I feel. If it feels good, then—cool. thing. I said to myself: “I think you have an open mind—I’ll listen, Repetitive? Oh, yeah—that’s should start learning a little bit more check it out and see what happens. what it’s about, though. It’s about about this stuff.” Sure, Quincy Jones has written that hook—that’s what gets it over. Musically, jazz is more com- some great stuff. For a while, he got It serves its purpose: you go to a plicated and more intricate, but the into the funk thing, and started put- party and people want to dance and other stuff is fun to play. And I ting out stuff like “Body Heat” and just groove—you can’t dance to mean, it’s good—Blood, Sweat and “The Dude”. It was simple, but the “Cherry Juice”, but you can dance to Tears was a great band, with good music was great—I wore out a “The Dude”. It just depends upon arrangements that were demanding bunch of his tapes. It swings, in its the situation. in their own respect. I’m into all way; you can still get that two and kinds of stuff. I can get into some of four in there. You can still hear it, if Crescendo Vol 26, No. 3, P 8, April 1989 the rap stuff even—I can listen to it you don’t just close off and say: for maybe five minutes, and that’s “Oh, this isn’t jazz—so I don’t want

______Thad Jones—Mel Lewis Page 17 of 17