Dilbert, Dogbert, Catbert, the Boss, Alice, and the Rest of the Gang Aren’T Available for One of the Big Speeches at SLA 2007, but We Got Their Creator Scott Adams

Dilbert, Dogbert, Catbert, The Boss, Alice, and the rest of the gang aren’t available for one of the big speeches at SLA 2007, but we got their creator Scott Adams

irst, there was the Peter Werts: Oh really? I didn’t know you got Principle, expounded in into trouble for those. 1968 by the academic Laurence J. Peter. He said Adams: I get in trouble all the time but that in a hierarchical organi- usually it comes from left field, which is Fzation, an employee will rise to his or her what makes it interesting. You’ll get to level of competence—then rise one level see some comics that weren’t published higher, to a level of incompetence, and and some that were published, and we’ll remain in that position. It’s, like, well, an just have some fun. accident or something. Nearly 30 years later, cartoonist Scott Werts: The opening keynote speaker at Adams, himself an MBA, put forth the our conference is former Vice President Dilbert Principle, which takes Professor Al Gore. Do you have anything you’d Peter’s theory a step farther. In Adams’s care to share with him should he read satirical view, companies systematically this interview? promote less competent employees to middle management positions—because Adams: I met Al at the White House, that’s where they can do the least dam- and he asked me to do some work on a age to the organization. No accident report he used to do as part of his job. here. It’s part of the plan. He was looking for some cartoons for The Dilbert comic strip, syndicated a report to try to convey some material in hundreds of newspapers, displays that was unusually dull. Adams’s view of the corporate world Werts: I suspect a lot of people actu- I forget its official title, but he did a every day, in color on Sundays. ally think of you as Dilbert, himself. Do regular report that was basically about You’ll get to meet him at the 2007 SLA you channel him sometimes when you efficiency in government. His sub-task Annual Conference and Exposition, where do speeches? within the vice presidency was to make he will deliver the closing keynote speech the government more efficient through at 9:30 a.m. Wednesday, June 6. Adams: Probably not intentionally, but automation and other means. And he Cybele Werts, an SLA member and I’m sure I do. The content of my talk is had to explain his progress on a regular a regular contributor to Information the strange odyssey of going from cubi- basis, but it was kind of very dry mate- Outlook, recently chatted with Adams cle to cartoon. And I’m going to share rial so he, at one point, asked my advice on the phone, trying to learn what makes some comments that got me in trouble on that. So I have a little bit of past him (and Dilbert) tick, and provide every- for reasons that sometimes were obvious interaction with him. one with a preview of his presentation. and sometimes were not.

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Werts: You started drawing Dilbert in Werts: It still is about the people when computer programmer or something. 1989. How would you say the theme has it comes down to it is what you’re saying? I don’t really give up to any car- changed in the intervening two decades? toonist side. How has technology or the increasing Adams:. Humor is about human feel- pace of information affected how your ings and human interaction and they use Werts: You don’t have that wild artist characters interact? computers. The technology are really look about you? just a backdrop, they’re more like just a Adams: There are some things that page setting. Adams: No, not so much. are difficult in comics. I’d like to do more comics where they’re using instant Werts: There’s a hackneyed stereo- Werts: Maybe need to work on that messaging, stuff like that, but it doesn’t type about librarians, as in Marian the and grow your hair a little longer or really look good, just people sitting in Librarian (from the play, The Music something. front of a computer, likewise with cell Man) just as there is a stereotype about phones. I used to draw a telephone and engineers that Dilbert represents. And Adams:, Or just throw some airs on, you could tell somebody was talking on yet, I know that I’m at least one “librar- that would be good too. a telephone in a comic… [now] they just ian” who doesn’t fit the profile, and I have a Bluetooth thing in their ear…or know some others as well. So I ask you: Werts: If you just let your beard grow a cell phone that actually is completely What’s the stereotype for cartoonists and out a little, get that scruffy artist look, covered by the size of their hand. tech- do you fit that stereotype? wear black… nology has become problematic for me just because I can’t draw it; it’s harder Adams: I’m kind of an odd cartoonist Adams: Yeah, yeah. Actually, it’s tough to do things. because most cartoonists they start when I do speaking; I have to figure out Other than that, the workplace really out as artists and then they become what to wear because I can’t show up doesn’t change that much. The jobs go cartoonists. It’s often they’re in one in a worthless suit. You know, you’ve from being downsized in the old-fash- kind of art and then there’s a little bit met everyone else who’s in a suit, ioned way to being off-shored and rein- of the cartoonist. because it would look wrong because vented in a more modern version. My background is economics and I’m a cartoonist. There are little things that change. Any business school. I have an MBA, so time you’ve got a boss and a coworker cartooning was kind of a sharp left turn Werts: What do you wear? the dynamic is going to be pretty similar for me. When people meet me, they no matter what the technology is. figure I sell insurance or I must be a Adams: I have this tough balance—I always try to find a shirt that you can’t find easily, so it’s all about wearing some- People will change their plan to avoid thing that you’re not wearing and… being mocked, and they won’t change Werts: What are you going to wear for their plan because someone had a us information specialists? better reason. Adams: It’s a few months away so I’ll probably [get] a new shirt between now and then.

20 INFORMATION OUTLOOK V11 N05 MAY 2007 Werts: You’ve said many times that Almost everything I do has that quality you started out in “a variety of humiliat- ing and low-paying jobs” and I think about it that people would pay you to do you definitely say you’re long past that it if they could. now. In fact, I think most people think that you have a dream job, what with drawing pictures all day and making mil- the Twilight Zone where someone comes like irresponsible or maybe a bunch of lions of dollars. What’s your take on this, to you, a magic genie or something and irresponsible things? and do you think that you’ve kept your says, “For the rest of your life, your job is perspective? to eat ice cream.” Adams: I own a couple of restaurants. Your first response is, “Woohoo, all I Adams: That’s a large collection there, have to do is eat ice cream. I love ice Werts: I’ve read about them, in San so let me see if I can get the components cream.” And then the genie says, “But Francisco. I’m not sure that restaurants out. So yes, a great job. I often say it you have to eat at least a barrel of it a counts as being irresponsible. isn’t working. Almost everything I do day,” There’s just a lot of it; it’s like that. all day are things that if you could just Now, what’s the second part of Adams: A lot of people think it is … take out the pieces, you could actually the question? It was how I keep my And I don’t have any restaurant exper- charge money for people doing what I perspective? tise, I have restaurant managers, all that, do for money. If you said to somebody, the working partner. “How much would you pay if you knew Werts: How do you keep your per- that you could draw a cartoon and it spective? Werts: Why do you have the res- would appear in newspapers all over taurants? the world?” people would say, “I’ll pay Adams: I certainly don’t aim to keep $1,000 for that.” my perspective. There’s no point in Adams: It’s completely irrational, I actually get paid for doing what being successful if you think exactly the there’s no rational reason, you just—you I’m doing right now—I’m talking about way you thought before. want what you want. myself. If you said, “All right, how would

you like to talk about yourself?” Well, Werts: Some people just go completely Werts: What kind of food are they? people pay people to listen to them. berserk with the money and turn into Almost everything I do has that qual- Britney Spears … Adams: California cuisine so it’s a little ity about it that people would pay you to bit of fish and beef things, chicken and do it if they could. The only downside is Adams: If you look at the people who pasta and lots of other stuff. there’s too much of it … are nuts with money, they’re all people who got it very young. I mean I was well Werts: That leads into my next ques- Werts: Too much happiness? into my 30s before any of the good stuff tion. Many people aren’t aware that you happened, so… have so many tangential interests. You Adams: Yeah, there’s just too much have those other books, God’s Debris stuff. I liken it to like a bad episode of Werts: So, have you bought something and The Religion War, you have the two

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restaurants, and you have the blog, and Adams: No. In my case, it’s completely My most popular cartoons ever, the the interviews. And then you’re drawing different. ones that are most reproduced, I per- a cartoon every day … What’s keeping In other people’s cases, it’s full pen sonally don’t care for, and they didn’t you motivated? and paper and, I think everybody at this take much thinking, didn’t take much point is at least e-mailing their work off time. So you can’t really predict that well Adams: We’ve touched on that with to the communication companies that what’s going to catch the imagination. your earlier question, which is that I send them off to the newspapers. So I So I don’t fret over it. I sit there and only do things that are interesting to think everybody has at least some elec- within 10 minutes I start drawing a me, so there’s nothing in that list you tronic component involved to finish their comic, whether I have an idea or not or mentioned that doesn’t excite me. I love work, or they finish it up in Photoshop. it’s an idea I love, I just start something going to the restaurant and even hear- A couple of years ago, I moved to a and just see where it goes. ing about the problems and helping fully paperless version, so I actually draw work those out, and I love writing my directly to the computer now. That’s just Werts: My next question has to do with blog and I really love writing my cartoon. like paper except much, much better. a particular cartoon. When my editor So it’s sometimes indistinguishable from told me I was going to have the honor my own leisure. Werts: How many do you produce in of interviewing you, my mind went to a day? one of your cartoons that I mailed to our Werts: My dad wasn’t a millionaire, chief executive officer last week. It’s the but he had enough money to do what Adams: I would just do one a day, one where the CEO lays a golden egg he chose. He said, “The difference isn’t but now I’m trying to get my weekends to justify his $40 million salary, and our that you get to buy all this stuff when free because I got married this past CEO thought it was hoot, which says a you have money. The difference is that year. So I’m doing usually two per day lot about her. you get to choose how you’ll spend during the week. And I realized that we use your work a your time.” That sounds like that’s what I started this cartooning thing when I lot in our office to communicate difficult you’re saying. had my day job, so I’d have to get up things through the use of humor. And I early in the morning and do my comics wondered if other people have told you

Adams: I mean to put it another way: before I went to my day job, and I didn’t that they use your cartoons to commu- The only thing you could really buy is really have a choice of waiting until the nicate awkward, difficult things to each freedom. It’s the only product or service next day because I just would miss the other—not that I was saying my CEO anybody is buying … Now, it turns out deadline. I learned that no matter what shouldn’t be making her salary... that I like working and I get a lot out of it it took as soon as I sat down, or I only besides the money. I get a lot of satisfac- had 15 minutes left and I had to do Adams: I hear versions of that all time. tion, so I choose to spend a lot of time something in that 15 minutes, whatever I I hear people saying, “We are going to doing it. cranked out, other people seemed to like implement some specific kind of man- it; just as much regardless of how much agement program, but as soon as we’re Werts: Is technology changing how time I spent doing it. I learned to not ago- ready to roll it out, your comic came out you do the actual job of creating Dilbert nize because it turns out I’m not a good on that topic and it looked so stupid we or is it basically the same. judge of what my best work is… decided not to.” I hear that all the time.

22 INFORMATION OUTLOOK V11 N05 MAY 2007 I hear people giving a comic to people of all the suggestions I get are from Werts: All my questions are gigantic, I because they think it has a message people who don’t realize that they got don’t want to bore you. they’ve been trying to tell them, but the idea by reading a Dilbert strip in couldn’t do it themselves without some the first place. Adams: I would say that, first of all, as risk of being fired or ostracized. It’s not because they directly read the far as my strategy, I tend to be more of It’s also true that all forms of commu- strip and then suggested that they know a content guy, so as the distribution sys- nication depend on hitting an emotional it’s funny; they see the situation and they tems change and ways you order them note, not just a factual note. recognize it as funny because they’ve shift, I’ll following that trend, I won’t be And sometimes all the reasons in the already read it in a Dilbert comic. About pushing it. world aren’t as strong as that—they rec- ognize some folks in the comic and they realize they’re being mocked for being I certainly don’t aim to keep my the way they are. People will change their plan to perspective. There’s no point in being avoid being mocked, and they won’t successful if you think exactly the way change their plan because someone had a better reason. you thought before.

Werts: Our jobs as information special- ists vary a lot, but broadly speaking, a lot of us who work in the information indus- 5 percent of the things that come in are It was a little different when the try recognize that we might not know things that I haven’t already done. Internet first came on. I was early on the answer to a question but we know to the Internet because I didn’t have find the answer. I know many interview- Werts: Changes in technology and much to lose and everybody told me, ers ask you the same question, which is information resources have had a major “Don’t put your comics on the Internet where do you get your ideas? impact in my field, which is broadly for free because then no one will want As an information specialist myself I called knowledge management, and I to buy it because it’s already for free.” might not know the answer to that ques- can see that change reflected in the But it turned out to be the biggest mar- tion, but I bet I could find that answer for popularity of your Web site and your keting boon I had. you and I’m presuming it would be in the blog. And if there is a futurist in you—is I think my days of being first might heads of your legions of fans. So I won- there?—how would you see your fran- be over, because whoever goes first der, are you still coming up with ideas chise moving in the next decade? is either going to be a hero, as I was for your cartoons, or have you joined lucky enough to be at least one, or get our ranks, and are you an information Adams: Well, Dilbert depends entirely the arrow in the back. I’d probably be a specialist yourself? upon the health of newspapers first, little bit more conservative now on how and… the market changes. Adams: Yeah, I guess I am. I see myself as kind of a filter for other peo- Werts: Which some people say are not Werts: Well having been first, do you ple’s suggestions because most of the so healthy. think you were a hero or got an arrow suggestions come in by e-mail… in the back? And they’re not suggestions for spe- Adams: Yeah, but they said that about cific things, it’s not like “here’s what’s radio when television came along. So Adams: It made it safe for comics on funny,” it’s usually “here’s what’s bother- there’s a good chance it will work in the Internet, because for a long time ing me” or “here’s what someone did,” some fashion. people were holding back …So it helped or, “here’s some problem or here’s some me. Obviously, I’m watching any other trend you have to make fun of,” and Werts: Would you consider yourself technology that comes along. then I just run it through some formula a technophile? Do you use some of the and apply it to my characters and usually contemporary technologies such as real- Werts: What is the question that you something good comes out of it. ly simple syndication, podcast, webinars, really wish interviewers would ask you? and so on. How do you see these kinds Werts: And it never gets stale or you of technologies affecting how we learn Adams: Well, you know, most of the never start hearing the same things—or and change over the next few decades? interviewers ask me that question. maybe you do. Adams: Well, that is a gigantic ques- Werts: Give me some pearl of wisdom Adams: The truth is that 95 percent tion. I don’t know how to… that you’ve never said before, because

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I know you haven’t talked to our kind over, but a ton of people say I don’t read in person, there’s a good chance that I of group before. your comic or I didn’t read the comic won’t be able to talk. until I read the blog. Well, yes. There’s certain sounds that Adams: I often bring up a topic and I can say and certain sounds I can’t say rather than researching it, I just kind of Werts: Is there any question you really so I end up answering questions with put it out there and confess that I don’t hate the interviewers asking you? words that seem unfamiliar because I know all the details. can’t say those words and I can say other Adams: No, there aren’t any questions ones…But most of the time it doesn’t Werts: On your blog? I really hate. This is good. I like [your have much impact unless I’m going to questions] because they were in-the- lunch, so I don’t go to lunch much. SLA Adams: Yes. And then hundreds of face, so I got to talk about whatever I people would comment and they basi- wanted to talk about. Notes cally fill in all the details. For your daily dose of Dilbert, see www. Werts: So any time you get to just talk dilbert.com. The Dilbert Blog, which Werts: That’s pretty easy. You don’t as much as you want about yourself you Adams updates regularly, is at http://dil- have to do any research. love it? bertblog.typepad.com. The Dilbert car- toon strips used with this article are © 2007 by Scott Adams and reprinted with permission of United Feature Syndicate. The only thing you could really buy is They may not be reproduced or redistrib- uted without permission from UFS. For freedom. It’s the only product or service details, see www.dilbert.com/comics/dil- anybody is buying. bert/info/faq_and_contacts.html#31.

Adams: The beauty is that the old Adams: Well, again, it gets back to model is that whoever was the artist, that point—I have the kind of job that whoever was the pundit, whoever had people would pay to do… But maybe the, real estate in a newspaper or what- one interesting thing [is] about my ever, they got to put their opinion out issues with my voice… The bottom line there. So I’ve been doing the opposite on that is that I can talk in certain con- where I don’t offer my opinion. I usually texts…not in other contexts. say I don’t have enough information to have an opinion. Werts: What context can’t you talk in? And then hundreds of people try to fill in the information and you could Adams: At lunch it turns out. believe what they’re filling them with, usually links…I say this is the topic and Werts: You mean while you’re eating? these are things that are not known, and people rush to fill in the details because Adams: I can’t talk if there’s like a people like talking more than they like background hum…and a restaurant is listening. buzzing in the background. And this And the beauty of the blog is that I get is—it’s tough to explain. It’s not an immediate feedback. It’s more immedi- issue that I can’t speak loudly enough ate than any kind of feedback other than because, you know, I’m speaking loud being on stage in front of people. And it enough right now and I’ll speak loud changes what I write the next day. enough when I’m giving my keynote. There’s some kind of auditory interfer- Werts: But it is mostly your fans, right? ence that goes on with this condition that You get people who are actually dis- I have, so that if there’s noise coming in, agreeing with you? I can’t produce sound out of my throat. My point is that I can talk okay on the Adams: They’re not exactly the same telephone most of the time and I can as my comic fans, there’s a lot of spill- give my keynote, but when you meet me

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