Kathleen Hanna
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Grace Bonney: 00:10 Hi, and welcome to Good Company, a podcast where we take an honest look at the world of creative business. I'm your host, Grace Bonney. On this week's show, I'm talking with one of my biggest heroes, singer, artist, and activist Kathleen Hanna. Kathleen is the voice behind some of the most influential and inspiring bands, like Bikini Kill, Le Tigre, and the Julie Ruin. She's used her music, her art, and her voice to talk about politics, feminism, women's rights, domestic violence, and so many important issues. Her voice has inspired generations of women and all people, to speak up and speak out about the issues that mean the most to them. I visited Kathleen in her home in California, where she had just celebrated the launch of her newest proJect, Tees 4 Togo, the new T-shirt collection where all proceeds go to the nonprofit organization Peace Sisters, which helps send young girls to school in the West African nation of Togo. Kathleen and I talked about her music career, life in the early days of a Riot Girl, and intersectional feminism. We also talked about the need for nuance, gray areas, and independent thought in both activism and art. And we talk about what and who is inspiring Kathleen to create today. So, let's start the show. So, your musical career is legendary. And I try not to throw that word around. But one of the things I want to start with is, I don't think most people know that you have a history in design. And since that's our primary focus, I would love to hear more about that. What was it that drew you to design? Kathleen Hanna: 01:50 Well, I actually took interior design classes at Parsons, when I was 38. Grace Bonney: 01:55 And I read you're only What, one credit shy of a- Kathleen Hanna: 01:58 I'm a little more than that, because I looked it up since then. And it's basically, construction documents. It's the worst. I mean- Grace Bonney: 02:04 Which nobody enJoys. Kathleen Hanna: 02:05 I just, echh. And I kind of realized, well, what drew me to design, your question was, what drew me, Kathy Hanna, to interior design. And the answer to that is, crappy bathrooms in clubs and crappy green rooms. I feel like there was a meter in my body that was like, "How much male urine can I smell? And how many ugly wallpaper borders can I see in crappy hotel rooms?" And Just on tour, and kind of living out of a suitcase, in Bikini Good Company - Kathleen Hanna MIX (Completed 11/19/18) Page 1 of 21 Transcript by Rev.com Kill, way back when, I used to have old 50s and 60s suitcases with, I would tape pictures, photographs on the inside, so that when I opened it up, it was a portable home. I felt like it was something homey. And then, it Just sort of got to me, all the ugly design choices that people around the world make for green rooms. And you spent a lot of time if you're in a band, in the backstage greenroom. And a lot of really crappy leather couches, a lot of ugly leather couches. And I Just sort of got my fill. And I was, when I got home after a particularly grueling tour, I Just got really obsessed with my home space and with having it be really beautiful, have things smell nice. And then I Just started really wanting to help my friends have that, too, like my friends who were really busy and don't have time. They are writing books, they are doing performance art. They're not making a ton of money. They have kids. They live in a tiny rent-stabilized apartment. And I Just, I mean, I didn't really have the time, but it was my hobby. It's what I love to do, is to go over and do a consultation, and then help my friend fix up her apartment. So yeah, it Just became this thing that I really enJoy. And I thought about doing it for real. But I don't really want to work with rich people with huge budgets. Much more where my passion is, is, I would really love to somehow do a project where I could redo places like check-cashing centers, you know what I mean? Or the DMV. Just places where you go and you're, "This is the worst. This makes me feel really bad." Our a plasma center. You know, when I was younger, I donated plasma to get money to be able to continue making my punk music. And I think people should have nice plasma centers. And Just stuff like that, those are my fantasies. And then I have this other sort of guerrilla project that is unrealized. So if anybody wants to steal this, it's up for grabs. You ever really go to a restaurant that you really love the food, but the restaurant itself is very not appetizing, so you're always getting to-go, or whatever? Or the bathroom is Just so bad, you're, "I can't even"? There was this one particular place in Manhattan that was like that, and I was, "I'm gonna go in there and Just paint a little square of the wall, and then I'm gonna put the trashcan over it. And then I'm gonna go in the next time and I'm gonna paint another little square and hide it underneath all the things that they have in there," because they have tons of stock and stuff. Good Company - Kathleen Hanna MIX (Completed 11/19/18) Page 2 of 21 Transcript by Rev.com And I was, "And then, I'm gonna sneak in shelving that I can erect. And I'm gonna put the stuff on shelves with a thing over it." And they're just gonna go in and be, "What?" Until finally, I've re-done the entire bathroom with that. I've replaced the sink. I somehow got the IKEA sink into the, and put it together. Grace Bonney: 06:08 This is an HGTV show waiting to happen. Kathleen Hanna: 06:10 I know. I actually do want to do an HGTV show with my band mate Carmine Cabelli. We are gonna call it Backstage Pass, where we redo back stages. Grace Bonney: 06:23 I love that. But, I like the idea, I mean, so much design programming is about wealthy people flipping houses that most people couldn't afford anyway. And there used to be this really great show that Niecy Nash had, that was called Clean House. Did you ever watch that? Kathleen Hanna: 06:35 Absolutely. Grace Bonney: 06:36 It's the only one I ever liked, because that whole concept of, if you haven't seen it, it was a show where you would go in, people would sell things at sort of a front yard yard sale. And you would use that money to make it over, which is a practical way to approach design. Kathleen Hanna: 06:50 Yeah, I love that show. Grace Bonney: 06:52 Is there anything that you get out of interior design that's different or fulfilling in a different way than music and performing? Kathleen Hanna: 07:01 You know, actually, there's a real similarity. Because part of my thing as a feminist musician is trying to change a room that I'm in. When I'm performing, I'm often performing in straight, male- dominated, white spaces. And to try to make this a welcoming environment for everyone, and for people who are typically left out, I used to say, "Girls to the front," and try to get girls to the front. And that was one way to kind of reorganize the room. And also, to be, "Look, every space can be turned from a nightmare to a fantasy as quickly as it," as quickly as it can go bad, it can go good. And so, I feel like interior design is really similar, Just also in terms of music that it surrounds you. The thing about music is that it hits you on a really visceral level, and it comes in through a lot of different senses, as a live performance. And I feel the Good Company - Kathleen Hanna MIX (Completed 11/19/18) Page 3 of 21 Transcript by Rev.com same way about interior design, where it's almost like installation art, to me. And I mean, I don't want to live in a space that's like an installation. My friend was, "Let's build a fake Yayoi Kasama Infinity room for the guestroom. And I'm, "Yeah, everyone's gonna want to sleep on mirrors." But I do like the way that music surrounds you, and that your environment surrounds you. And I think that with all the talk of self-care lately, to take that time to make your space be somewhere that suits you, that maybe is a space that's full of energy, and life, and more, and more, and more. Or maybe you need a space that's very calm. And to even think, "What would be good for me right now?" To even have that question, even if you don't do anything about it, I feel that that's a part of design, you know? Grace Bonney: 09:16 I want you to have a show now, because I feel like most people on air don't even ask those questions.