215 Slum Duration [RAJYA SABHA] Discussion 216

215 Slum duration [RAJYA SABHA] discussion 216 SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION have been killed etc. we look at the situation Statement made by Prime Minister on 28th May, through satistic. Human beings have become 19!% on Recent Nuclear Tests in F'okhran— merely statistics. We don't realise the threat to Contd. polity. Any Indian citizen, whether he is a pandit or a Muslim, should be protected by the DR. B.B. DUTTA : Madam, I come from Government. In kashmir, the nationalist Indian the periphery. I live in the North-East. We see Muslims are in overwhelming majority. They so many things and we are facing so many have a different history, different culture and problems with our experience. We can their record is very clean. Now, we are not able understand a little more as to what is happening to protect them. You see a cleansing process is in the North-West. We have got a direct going on. The Kashmir Valley is being cleansed perception. When I know that my Government, out. This kind of development is sapping the the Government of India, in terms of defence, is energy of the entire country. Why should it second to none, as an Indian, I have a different happen? That is why, today you see that people level of confidence. I have seen that in the North- are united behind nuclear Tests the entire nation East that confidence is missing. I have seen that is united. This is not an emotional outburst. by talking to people from the North-West, that No, this is an instinctive support dictated by the confidence is sinking. Recently, I was in instinctive wisdom. They want to see in Delhi Dacca. Some of my very progressive Muslim a Government which is capable of saying thate friends told me that we would not be able to are equal with the front ranking nations of the retain Kashmir. Forget about it. Give it to them. world. Take for instance, China. We are We cannot retain it because they think that, over having friendly dialogue with China and we the years, fighting is going on there on an should continue to do that. My leader, Dr. increasing scale and we are not equal to the task. Manmohan Singh, said that this situation It has only been intensified. A proxy war is going should be observed and all our utterances on. There has been no improvement of the should be restrained. We should not indulge situation. Hundreds of conferences and in the language of a singoism and say all types dialogues at so many levels had taken place. of silly things. I completely agree with him, and There have been a lot of killings. What has been whoever has said that, has done some damage the net result? The level of governance, the level and he should not continue doing so. I would of administration is sinking in those areas to such like to quote what Shri I.K. Gujral, the former an extent that Ihe civil administration is to be Prime Minister, has said in a letter to the Prime frequently aided by paramilitary forces. You call Minister. He has asked him to sign the C.T.B.T. in the CRPF, the BSF, the Assam Rifles and I do not know why. I will come to that point occasionally, the Army. Is it not being caused later. He narrated in a statement which has come by the external threat. There is a deepening doubt out in the Press also that when he met Clinton over our capacity to govern those areas and the in the United States. He asked President desired confidence that the Government will be Clinton to put himself in the shoes of Indian able to protect the life and property of the people P.M. and then consider India's situation. is missing. And in reply, Mr. Clinton had said, "I We want India a hard State. It must be a hard understand." To Mr. Clinton's response he State, not a soft one. One of the former Prime said I quote — Ministers had told me: "Yes, we cannot carry "we have nearly a thousand-mile long border on with a soft State. We must have a defence with Tibet or China, whatever you call it. That policy that generates confidence among the neighbour is nuclearised. We are in the Indian people, particularly people who are facing Ocean, and there is a place "Diego Garcia" atrocities on the borders, in those dangerous which is nuclearised. India is within their range. areas." What is happening in India? Many things Thanks to Saddam Hussain. You have so many one phenomenon is cleansing of population flotillas many of which are carrying nuclear groups. Pandits have been evicted from Kashmir weapons." Mr. Clinton's response was, he we count the number and say that over 2,50,000 decided to go to India to pay a visit and he sent pandits have been evicted. We count how many his Secretary of State to India. That was the reply. But Mr. I.K. Gujaral, our former Prime 217 Short duration [29 MAY 1998] discussion 218 Minister, has beautifully narrated that situation. not be an issue. It only proves the point. Our Madam, had it been the situation before policy of not signing the CTBT or the NPT is America, what would they have done? Had it therefore very very right. been before any other power, what would they We have done a right thing, and we sould have done? This is the question that haunts the not sign it. I don't understand why Mr. Gujaral minds of Indian citizens today. They have to be wrote to the P.M. to sign it because after these given a categorical answer. We are a democratic explosions, is there today any CTBT? And in society. We are an open society. We shuold what capacity does India sign? In what capacity? involve the general masses of the people, the And what document does it sign? And after educated people, the intellectuals, the media, Pakistan has gone aheadwith the tests, what has the academicians in the debate. They should be happened to the CTBT? Has it not been further involved in this debate so that we can generate mauled? Again, maybe, one or two or three confidence in their minds. Now if this is what powers may come up with their series of tests Mr. Gujral's experience is, then I ask why do and this proves India's contention at the nuclear we not realize that we are badly threatened? disarmament conference. We can tell the Big Madam, U.S. has been telling us that if India Fire, you are responsible for this. We are not goes nuclear—this argument I do not responsible for this. Madam, I tell you one thing. understand—there is going to be an arms race I will just make on more point within two in South Asia! Are we responsible for the arms minutes and then I will sit down. Because of race? Is it not my duty to protect my citizens the peaceful dimension in our nuclear research and my territory from Nuclear Arms race, you led by Jawaharlal Nehru, Homi Bhabha and are responsible because you have started it first. others we have gained a lot of things because Then came the Soviet Union and then came our nuclear base is so wide and strong today China. You have put us in serious situation. and that in terms of scientific excellence our That is why India has taken the stand that level is enviable. Our programme is highly cost nuclear disarmament is a global issue. Why did effective. The test that has been done and you try to regionalise it? By its very nature, whatever other things that will follow from it, I nuclear is a global thing... am sure—I have had talks with the scientists— THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (MISS SAROJ it is going to be highly sophisticated, wide KHAPARDE): Mr. Dutta, you please conclude ranging multipurpose and cost effective. And now because I have got a long list. Other in the nuclear field itself there is a part, you Members from your Party would also like to can call it 'primitive'. speak on this subject. There is a long list of members before me. Those who went very fast went for weaponising and manufacturing weapons, DR. B.B. DUTTA: Madam, I will conclude shields, umbrellas and all these things. They within two minutes. Madam, nuclear spent thousands and millions on it. We need not weaponisation by nature is a global thing. If it address ourselves to this kind of a move. What is not, I can tell you—I have found from the is now required? We require a doctrine, a Internet—how U.S. feels threatened by India strategic doctrine, by which we could guide going nuclear. If we could complete the Agni ourselves. But I repeat my point again that in series of tests, then reach a level where we the economic field, as Dr. Manmohan Singh has become a threat even to the United States of said, we are going to face extreme hardship. So, America. If the Indians achieved the planned we must come up with some urgent programmes Missiles programmes then running from about at the national level, comprising all political Raleigh. North Carolina to Omaha, to Nebraska parties and assure ourselves that we can meet it. to Engene Oregon, can be within its targets. But What has happened cannot be undone.

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