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MELVIN LAIRD: a FIGHTER for FREEDOM a Conversation with James J

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MELVIN LAIRD: a FIGHTER for FREEDOM a Conversation with James J MELVIN LAIRD: A FIGHTER FOR FREEDOM A Conversation with James J. Unger Unger: I’d like to tration, and the Johnson Ad- that we have. Do you see a start, Mr. Secretary, actu- ministration. I made it a major revision in that? ally, with your experiences. policy that we were going to I think it’s most appropriate reduce the manpower in that Laird: Well, as you know, today, as soon as you leave area everyday. And we did! when I came over in the De- us here, you’re attending the Everyday, we reduced the man- fense Department, the roles swearing-in of a new Secre- power in that area, while I and missions were set up so tary of Defense, here in this was Secretary of Defense. I that the U.S. military forces city. And in reading some of got all the ground combat would be in a position where the materials for this inter- forces out of there before I they could fight two major view, I was struck by a quo- left office. I got a lot of wars at one time. I changed tation that you gave: “The job the Air Force and the Navy that to one war, and one re- of Secretary of Defense is a out of that area, too. So, gional conflict. Then it was loser.” Trying to manage the it was not a pleasant time changed back by the Reagan world’s biggest business, you because the American people Administration to a two war take a real and major batter- did not support our involve- concept. That sets all your ing under the circumstances. ment. That’s why Nixon was force levels and your equip- elected President of the ment, and everything else. I Laird: It’s much easier, United States. Because they believe they’re going to have now. were fed up with the over- to make another change, and involvement of the United be in a position to be able Unger: Well, that’s what States in Vietnam. Eisenhower to handle two regional con- I was going to ask. Today, said back in 1956, the worst flicts, rather than the major are we swearing in a loser or place in the world to get in- concept. So that debate is a winner? volved in ground combat is in going on in the Pentagon right Southeast Asia. When he at the present time. I think Laird: Well, I think you brought about the peace agree- that’s the way it will come can be a winner, now. When I ment in Korea he said, "Never out. You will have a greater was sworn in, the day I was again!" And he disciplined reliance on the Reserve and sworn in, there were 538,000 Vice President Nixon for say- the National Guard, as we go men in Vietnam in ground com- ing we should help the French. on down through the next year bat roles. There were an- Eisenhower came out and said or two. That’s part of that other 1.5 million support, not on the ground. Well, we total force concept, which I 500,000 support in the Navy were on the ground when I went started, and I think is going surrounding that area in over there. So, it was a dif- to require more and more of a Okinawa, in the Philippines, ficult situation. reliance on the National Guard in Thailand, in Guam. So you So, your quote is a good and the reserve forces. had over in that area dedi- quote, but the conditions to- cated to that particular con- day are different. The man- Unger: You know, we frontation and that war, 2 power is just a quarter of think of our wars, the wars million men and women. You what it was. The civilian of the past, in global con- were getting casualty reports employment is just about a flict terms -- World War II, everyday. And you can never quarter of what it was. So or the Korean conflict, Viet- be a winner when you sit there you’ve got an entirely dif- nam. But for the wars of the and get casualty reports on a ferent situation. future, we have a recent piece daily basis. It is a losing by Charles Robb in The Wash- proposition. I established Unger: One of the head- ington Post, the title of it the volunteer service. I lines we’ve seen in recent is “Be Ready for Two Desert ended the draft. I started a weeks here in the Washington Storms.” That’s quite a bit lottery and did away with col- papers talks about the outgo- different than be ready for a lege deferments, because it ing Secretary of Defense: World War II or a Korean War. was unfair during that par- "Perry resists cuts in mili- Where do you think we are in ticular period. Early on, tary force." And my under- that? when I first went on the De- standing is, right now, that fense Appropriations Commit- the Pentagon is engaged in one Laird: Right, that’s tee, we had 367 men in Viet- of those on-going, many major where I think we’ll come out nam. Then it went up to 12,000 reviews that we have of how -- in that general area. And during the Kennedy Adminis- best to size and shape U.S. that discussion is going on. tration. Then that great es- forces. There obviously is a I spent a lot of time with calation came in the latter dynamic interaction between some of them in the Pentagon part of the Kennedy Adminis- our capabilities and the goals just last week, going over that whole scenario. And I fight that’s going on in think the article you referred Ethiopia right now, very few to is the movement in that people are paying attention direction. That decision has James J. Unger to it. Angola has quieted not been made because Secre- Director of Forensics at down. There’s a settlement tary Perry did not make the the National Forensics Insti- that has been reached in the decision, and did not condone tute and American University, last three weeks; that bloody it as a policy, and the Ad- and former Director of Foren- war that was going on there ministration is not condon- sics at Boston College and for the last twelve years, has ing a policy in that regard, Georgetown University, Unger quieted down. But you can go yet. I think they’re going received his B.A. as valedic- on, then, throughout Africa to have to face up to it, and torian from Boston College and and you can go on over to Asia make that decision, because his J.D. from Harvard Univer- and look at those wars that you can’t plan your force sity Law School. As an in- are going on. Should we be a structure if you don’t have tercollegiate debater he part of it? What is our re- that policy guideline. reached the semifinals and sponsibility here? What is finals of the National Debate the United Nations’ respon- Unger: Are you satis- Tournament. During his years sibility? Do we stand by and fied that the current Admin- as coach at Georgetown, his let this killing go on? I istration, current Department teams reached the final round mean, we got involved in So- of Defense, has an adequate of every major intercollegiate malia because there was great input through past experiences tournament, including the Na- public attention to it. We to those individuals such as tional Championship, often had great coverage of the yourself and that they take more than once. His teams situation that was develop- account of it? were ranked “Number One” in ing and we had pictures al- the nation in the National most every night for a while Laird: They take account Coaches Poll an unprecedented on television of these chil- of it. I was very close to five times. As Director of dren starving and dying. And Perry; he was a very good Forensics at American Univer- that aroused the public sup- friend of mine, over a long sity, his teams have reached port and public sentiment. period of time. I’m not criti- the Final Round at numerous cizing his failing to make the national tournaments and the Unger: I’ve got a quote decision. It’s a tough deci- semifinals at the 1994 CEDA here from a memorandum--I sion to make, but it has to National Championship Debate think you submitted to Presi- be made and it has to be made Tournament. A former "Col- dent Reagan-- about a problem in mind of how the total force lege Coach of the Year", Unger of defense planning. I want concept works. Not only with is a debate consultant to both to quote it here, and then our five bilateral treaties, NBC and ABC. In every elec- get your reaction as to where but also with the four major tion year since 1976 he served we stand on this issue today. multi-lateral treaties, which as Chairperson of the Associ- You say “I know that the pub- give us a military commitment ated Press National Presiden- lic can reverse its views on around the world. Now that tial Debate Evaluation Panel. defense needs faster than of military commitment has In 1992 he also assumed simi- any other national issue. changed under those treaties lar duties for United Press Recurring failures of popu- because the Soviet Union was International and The New York lar consensus over the past once a major power.
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