Wednesday Volume 550 12 September 2012 No. 42 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 12 September 2012 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 263 12 SEPTEMBER 2012 264 be locking ourselves out of the potential for millions of House of Commons pounds-worth of work involving hundreds of jobs in Scotland, and that is not acceptable. Wednesday 12 September 2012 Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that Scotland makes a magnificent The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock contribution not only in terms of manufacturing, as we heard from the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Lindsay PRAYERS Roy), but in terms of basing and recruitment? Will he welcome, with me, the fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence has gone to great lengths [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] to keep Scotland in the Union as regards defence, and does he agree that that would very probably be lost if BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS there were to be independence? Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely HILLSBOROUGH right to focus on what would be at stake were Scotland Resolved, to become independent and separate from the rest of That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That the United Kingdom. The Scottish contribution to UK she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid defence is absolutely immense, but Scotland gets a huge before this House a Return of the Report, dated 12 September amount from being part of the UK. We are safer, and 2012, of the Hillsborough Independent Panel.—(Stephen Crabb.) we have more clout, as part of the United Kingdom, and I do not want to put any of that at risk. Oral Answers to Questions Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): Since this Government took office, service personnel numbers are at a record low and commitments have been broken on returning troops from Germany, on facilities, and on the retention SCOTLAND of historic Scottish regiments. Is this totally embarrassing record the reason why the Secretary of State for Defence The Secretary of State was asked— has never even visited Scotland since taking office? Independence (Defence Industry) Michael Moore: If we are talking about embarrassment on defence policy, the hon. Gentleman should look to 1. Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): What discussions his own party’s policies on these matters. In Scotland we he has had with the Secretary of State for Defence on have access to a UK defence budget of £34 billion—the the effect on Scottish-based defence jobs if Scotland fourth largest in the world. We have 15,500 service becomes an independent country. [119848] personnel and 40,000 people working in the defence industry in 800 different companies. That is an immense The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): contribution from UK defence to Scotland and from I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on Scotland to UK defence. defence matters relating to Scotland. There is no doubt that there would be far-reaching implications for all Angus Robertson: To correct the Secretary of State, sectors of the economy, including the defence industry, service personnel numbers are just over 10,000; I am should Scotland become independent. sure that he would want to amend the record on that. So the Secretary of State is not denying that the Lindsay Roy: I thank the Minister for his answer. I Secretary of State for Defence has not even been to am very proud of the immense defence work that has Scotland since taking office. The Defence Secretary was been undertaken in Fife—for example, at Raytheon in asked for a meeting in November last year. He was my constituency. The contribution to national security asked for a meeting in March this year and nothing has been immense. According to the Ministry of Defence, came of it. An offer was made of discussion through the new Type 26 frigate that is about to be commissioned the former Armed Forces Minister, the hon. Member will be the backbone of the Royal Navy for decades to for North Devon (Nick Harvey), when I met him and come. Can the Minister advise how likely it is, in the the joint chiefs of staff in June last year, but there has light of possible separation, that the frigates will be been no formal response from the Government since built in Scotland? then. Why is the Ministry of Defence so bad at dealing with Scotland? Michael Moore: I pay tribute to the hundreds of skilled workers in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency Michael Moore: I completely reject what the hon. who contribute so much to United Kingdom and, indeed, Gentleman has said. Defence Ministers, as well as the international defence through the work that they do at Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my right hon. Raytheon and elsewhere, and I agree that this is not the Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and time to be putting that at risk. On the specifics of the Tweeddale (David Mundell) and I, have made regular Type 26, it is clear that if Scotland were an independent visits to different defence installations around Scotland; country, the rest of the UK would be applying European indeed, we have done so only in the past couple of Union procurement rules, which basically keep such weeks. I understand why the hon. Gentleman wants to contracts for the domestic market. We would therefore dodge the serious issue here. He does not want to focus 265 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2012 Oral Answers 266 on the Scottish National party’s defence policy, particularly matters in Scotland. We would much rather that that the little trick it wants to pull on NATO. The SNP was also the view of the Scottish Government, rather knows that people want NATO security and defence, than their incessant focus on constitutional matters. but it wants to have a pick-and-mix approach—to take on the baubles of NATO and not the obligations. That Margaret Curran: I thank the Minister for that interesting just will not do. answer. Yesterday, in response to a question of mine, the Secretary of State seemed to have no grasp of the Common Agricultural Policy impact of rising food prices in Scotland. Last week, Save the Children launched its first appeal to fund its 3. Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): What discussions work in Scotland, revealing that a quarter of parents he has had with his ministerial colleagues on reform of have less than £30 a week to spend on food, and the common agricultural policy as it affects Scotland. Citizens Advice Scotland tells us that applications for [119850] support for food and other basics has doubled. We all know, just as the Minister has indicated, that that is a 14. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): result of the choices that he and his Cabinet colleagues When he last met the Scottish Government’s Agriculture have made. Are he and the Secretary of State proud that Minister to discuss the common agricultural policy; food banks are fast becoming the hallmark of his and if he will make a statement. [119861] Government in Scotland? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell: The hon. Lady was not present at this (David Mundell): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of week’s reception at Dover house, where many of the State and I have frequent discussions with ministerial leading stakeholders on child poverty, including Save colleagues on common agricultural policy reform. I last the Children, were in attendance and there was a significant met UK and Scottish agriculture Ministers during the discussion about the issue. She can be assured that both royal highland show. the Secretary of State and I take these issues very seriously. Neil Carmichael: With the difficulties in the harvest this year, rising commodity prices and an interest in Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): The increasing productivity and production in the world of so-called greening measures proposed for the new CAP agriculture, will those talks focus on the need to recalibrate have caused consternation throughout the farming the common agricultural policy towards our production community. In a recent National Farmers Union survey, and food costs and prices? almost three quarters of those surveyed thought that they would have an adverse environmental impact; half David Mundell: We are in agreement with the Scottish thought that they would harm biodiversity; and all of Government that the common agricultural policy and, them thought that it would cause financial problems for indeed, policies pursued by both Governments, should their business. What is the Minister doing to make sure seek to maximise food production in Scotland. that those measures do not form part of the new CAP? Miss McIntosh: Will the Minister assure us that he David Mundell: The Government are aware of those will be heavily involved in reforms to the common concerns, not just in Scotland, but throughout the rest agricultural policy and that, once agreed, they will of the United Kingdom, and the Environment, Food apply equally to Scotland, England and all parts of the and Rural Affairs Committee, chaired by my hon. Friend UK, particularly with regard to cross-compliance measures? the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), has reported to that effect. The Government will seek to David Mundell: The Government have shown by their do all they can to minimise the impact of such greening actions that they are committed to involving not just measures, if they are adopted.