Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 JULY 1865

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Jur11 Bill. rARRRMlU,Y.l

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. Thursday, 6 July, 1865. Agricultural Reserves Amendment Bill, 3o.-Crown Lands Non-Competitive Sales Bill (discharged from the Paper).-Customs Duties Bill, 2°. AGRICULTURAL RESERVES AMEND­ MENT BILL. The SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS : Sir, as no memorial from the northern districts having reference to the land laws has reached the Government, I will now state to the House the action which I propose to take with regard to the Bills which are on the business paper. It will be in the recollection of honorable members that this order of the day having been struck off the paper-which took place, I believe, on a motion of the honorable member for Port Curtis for an adjournment,-when I took an opportunity, at a subsequent period, to move its restoration to the paper I mentioned that, on the third reading of the Bill it was my intention to move its recommittal for the consideration of certain clauses which that honorable member intended to submit. Since that period, the 366 Agrieultural Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

Bill and the order of the day immediately involve the necessity of an entire re-arrange­ following it have been twice before the House, ment of the survey department during the and on each occasion they were both post­ next twelve months, it will be better for him poned, for reasons which were stated at the to withdraw them, and not hinder the time. With the fact before us, that a very unanimous passing of this Bill through its large number of leases of Crown lands held third reading. In that hope, and with that under the Orders in Council will expire at the view, I now beg to move that this Bill be end of this year, and prompted, no doubt, by read a third time. a desire to see, perhaps, a more extended and Mr. DouGLAs : Mr. Speaker, I am quite a more fixed tenure of lease than exists under sure the honorable member who has moved our present land laws, a number of honorable this resolution is actuated by the best motives members who are accustomed to sit on this in desiring to provide this colony with a land side of the House have requested the Gov­ law which will be at once acceptable to the ernment to introduce a comprehensive Land public, and not destructive to the existing Bill ; and they have, on their part, offered interests of the country. I am also desirous to the Government, by means of certain reso­ that some such measure should be passed into lutions, suggestions for the preparation of law, and I am, equally with the honorable such a measure. Again, honorable members member, aware that it is a very difficult thing, on the other side of the House have just as in dealing with this question, to frame any loudly demanded that the Government should measure which can, strictly speaking, be introduce a comprehensive Land Bill. Now, characterised as a comprehensive one. For whether a comprehensive Land Bill means such a variet:y of opinions and interests are the same thing on both sides of the House is involved in this question, that it is only, a question which must be left to the specula­ perhaps, after a series of years and a course tive mind to solve. Our land laws have of experimental legislation that we can finally hitherto worked very fairly, and at present, hope to arrive at a really comprehensive perhaps, it would be well that they should measure. I can, therefore, understand the continue a little longer. The great objection reluctance with which the honorable gentle­ which I have had to them is, that they have man has met the propqsal of those gentlemen scarcely turned into the Treasury as much who approached him with suggestions having money as I should have liked the Treasury to reference to this Bill. I am convinced it receive. The Government, sir, have felt that would have been impossible for him during the introduction of a new land law is a ques­ the present session to take them into con­ tion which will be approached and regarded sideration, in addition to the various works he with great interest by all classes of the has in hand, both as an administrator of the community. In all the other colonies of law and as a practical exponent of that law, Australia the land question has always been and to bring in a Bill which would satisfy the looked upon as the great question of the day. country and this House. Therefore I am And as the Government of this colony are quite content to have his expression of opinion perfectly prepared to approach the subject, that he will be able to frame such a measure, and to introduce such a measure, all they ask during the ensuing recess, as will meet with of the House is to allow them sufficient time the approval of the House when it meets to prepare and arrange the details of such a again. But, sir, while I wish to give every Bill as they trust will satisfy the House, and credit to the honorable member for this meet the requirements of the COlmtry for many line of action, I am sure nobody is more years to come. But I venture to make this aware than he is, that there is a certain observation-I venture to express a hope that amount of doubt whether, even if he honorable members, when they do consider frames such a measure, he will succeed this question, will enter upon the considera­ in carrying it. There may be a variety of tion of it divested of all local or class preju­ causes to prevent him from bringing it into dices. Because it is vain to suppose-expe­ operation. Admitting that our previous rience teaches us that such a supposition legislation has been experimental and piece­ would be false-that no Land Bill which does meal, I can see no reason why we should not not bear upon the face of it the impress and attempt to make it as perfect as possible. stamp of public opinion can last. 'l'his Land The object which the honorable member had Bill, as I have just stated, the Government in drafting the Bill which is now before the will make arrangements to prepare during House was, I believe, to meet certain prac­ the recess. To refer again for a moment to tical evils which had arisen under the Agri­ the objects for which the honorable member cultural Reserves Act. To some extent it for Port Curtis desires the re-committal of does meet tliose evils, and I think he has the Bill before the House, I may say that the wisely modified those provisions which were questions involved in the clauses he has pro­ of too stringent a character. In that view, I posed, are questions which I should wish to believe the Bill deserves the support it has see calmly and deliberately discussed. But already received at the hands of the House. I would put it to that honorable member that, But it must not be overlooked that there are as the measure now before the House can other features in the Bill which are not so only be regarded as a temporary one, and as acceptable as the previous measure, in refer­ the clauses which he has submitted must ence to the reserves of land. It will be in Agrimtltural Reserves [6 JULY.] Amendment Bill. 367 the remembrance of honorable members, that and I believe, according to the Orders in in the Crown Lands Alienation Act there Council, it is necessary to give them twelve were clauses, which have been subsequently months' notice. I believe, however, that repealed, specifying the amount of land to be has not always been complied with. I felt reserved. In the present Bill there is no it was right to recognise the strict legal such distinction. Now, I thought at the rights of leaseholders, and therefore my time it was desirable to define the quantity clause only proposed to reserve a sufficient of land which was always to be held open to amount of land after a certain time had selection. And, believing that I should not elapsed, to give them notice that their fulfil my public duty unless I attempted to country would be required. The clause goes engraft upon that Bill some clause or clauses on to say that- which ensured that a certain amount of land " The Governor with the advice of the should always be accessible to the public, I Executive Council shall cause to be set apart if submitted a proposition which, when the Bill not already set apart for the purposes of this passed through committee, was not received Act portions of Crown lands not being less in with any great degree of favor. The pur­ the aggregttte than fifty thousand acres in each port of that resolution was further specified of the districts of Moreton and Darling Downs in some clauses which I contributed, and and in each of the districts of "Wide Bay Port afterwards submitted to the honorable Curtis and Kem10tly portions not containing less Minister for Lands and Works, as he has in the aggregate than thirty thousand acres and correctly stated, in the hope he would give that within the time above specified then and them his patronage. I felt that, without thereafter there shall constantly be kept surveyed some assurance of that sort from the honor­ and open for selection under the provisions of 'able member, I could not hope to pass them this Act not less than twenty-five thousand acres through the House ; and I have, therefore, in each of the said districts of Moreton and considerable satisfaction in finding that the Darling Downs and not less than fifteen thousand honorable member and I are pretty much in each of the districts of Wide Bay Port Curtis agreed upon this matter. In the first place, and Kennedy." it appeared to me very d.esirable that when the Now, I do not myself believe that there is fourteen years leases have expired-especially any necessity for having such a lar~e amount those in the Darling Downs district-we of land reserved in certain distncts. But should secure and set apart a certain amount there are districts which are 1nore peculiarly of country for agricultural reserves. Now, suitable for agricultural purposes, such as my arguments on that occasion were met by the Darling Downs and Moreton Districts, a counter assertion, that there was a sufficient where the greatest population is centered, quantity of land already reserved, and that where I think there should always be a large the operation of the Act had been detri­ quantity of land open for selection. It is in mental to the public interest. It was then such districts that the benefit of this clause broadly asserted that there were something would be felt. And when honorable mem­ like 200,000 or 300,000 acres open for selection. bers consider the vast extent of those districts, Since then, on the motion of the Chairman of they must admit that my demand is a very Committees, we have had a return shewing moderate one. I find the actual area of the amount of land available for selection, those districts amounts to something like and at the date of the return, it appears seventeen millions-nearly seventeen and a there were 67,859 acres of land open for half millions of acres. Now, I only ask by selection throughout the colony. Now, that these clauses that an infinitesin1al portion of is a very considerable amount of land ; and that land should be kept open for selection. if it were all available, or available in those I presume that the amount of land alienated districts which are most required for agricul­ in the districts I have mentioned does not tural purposes, I should have been content. much exceed 300,000 acres, and if so, this is But on referring in detail to the return, I nothing more than the public may fairly find that in those particular districts in which demand. It is admitted that as population land is most sought after, there is the smallest increases, the demand for land must also quantity open for selection. For instance, at increase, and that there must be a larger Drayton and Toowoomba and at Warwick­ supply, It is not desired unnecessarily to and of course the land contiguous to those infringe upon the properties of the lease­ places is the most suitable land in the colony holders, but, I believe, it is conceded on all for agricultural purposes-:-at Drayton there sides that if we are to attract population-if are only 4,900 acres open for selection; at we are to concur in the principle that it is Toowoomba 503 acres only, and at Warwick desirable for new comers to possess them­ 1,905 acres. Now, I can hardly think that selves of land, we must also admit the quantity can be sufficient for the purposes principle that the few must to some extent of this Act. I have therefore drafted the yield to the many. Even if some of those few clauses which are in the hands of honorable do su:ffer, they are bound to do so, they must members. The purport of the first clause is, su:ffer for the public good ; and when we that they sho~1ld take e:ffect within twelve consider that these leaseholders have had a months. Now, I was anxious not to interfere long tenure of their leases, and have made with the rights of the present leaseholders, good profits, it is nothing more than right 368 .A.gricultur'al Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. that they should submit to a certa:in forty nor more than three hundred and deprivation for the advantage of the pubhc. twenty acres. When I say that in the Darling Downs " (2.) Rent to be at the rate of two shillings and Moreton districts there is such a an acre payable annually in advance. large amount of land, I propose only that "(3.) Leases to date from the 1st of January there should be 25,000 acres surveyed and or 1st of July in each year. . "(4.) Leases to be renclenQueensland, to have the rio-ht of purchase at rate of and a much wider scope for the exe~·cis~ of two pounds p~r acre at any time during this privilege-I may point out that m .N .ew currency of lease." South Wales the principle of free selectiOn I am quite aware that this is somewhat a new has been carried to the extreme throughout feature-at any rate, in this form. I believe the country. But I believe, in consequence the last agricultural Bill did not work very of the system not having been adopted in well. What the defects in it were I al?l ~ot that colony when it was required, and after­ aware. At any rate, I am far from bel~evmg wards forced upon it, it has not, perhaps, that it might not be made to work admi~ably justified the expectations of those gentle~en by the introduction of this principle. To give an who succeeded in bringing it into operatiOn. illustration, it has worked remarkably well I do not, therefore, refer to the colony of as applied to Crown lands in the present pas­ New South Wales as an example, further toral leases of the whole squatting system. than to say, that the principle which I have These leases have been given at tolerably embodied in my resolutions i~ a .modified advantageous terms. I do not mean to push form is in practice there. In VIctoria, .where that argument to an. extreme and say that there is a large and prosperous squattmg, as they have been profitable t~ the tenants and well as an agricultural, population, there is at disadvantageous to the pubhc, because I am 4,000,000 present a law under which of acres well aware that many of the leaseho~ders are are actually reserved for the purposes of not at present enjoyi;ng the prospenty they agricultural selection ; whether they are anticipated. But shU, large. fortunes ha_ve made use of for strictly agricultural purposils been made under this system m the best dis­ is beside the question. At any rat~,. th~t tricts, and it has worked well on the whole. amount of land is reserved, and a proVIsiOn IS If then the system has answered upon a embodied in the existing law in Victoria that, la~ge sc~le, why should not it be made profit­ out of this reSPl'Ve there shall always be two able on a small scale? I propose, therefore, strict millions of acres open for selection. that the Government shall be authorised to That is a much larger qu~ntity of. lan.d, issue leases for five years for areas containing in proportion to the populatiOn of V ICtorm, not h•ss than forty, and not over three than that which I now seek to provide for in hundred acres. At present, the renewed advance for Queensland. In South Australia, pastoral leases are held for five years, and I a colony which has been eminently successful do not think we could do better than follow -perhaps the most successful in all matters, that example. In stating the number of especially in the poliey by which. it has acres, I have no particular desire. for any directed both its pastoral and agricultural specific number but I felt that 1t would pursuits-I find that 150,000 acres are come within the scope of every. person always ·kept surveyed in advance of the who is prepared to ente~ upon farmmg pur­ demand. Now, sir, in this colony I am suits at all to pay for his land at the rate I prepared to shew that a very considerable propose for such a small farm as forty acres. amount of land is now open for selection. But And, as' far as the maximum amount of land I do not think the land which has been is concerned (320 acres), I should have been surveyed is altogether of that character inclined to extend it to a much larger area ; which is to be desired. The next clause, but it struck me, and it has probably occurred which I propose to follow clause eight, to the honorable Secretary for Lands and embodies, I must admit, a new feature Works that the privilege might be abused, altogether for the consideration of the House. and a l~rger quantity of ~an~ taken up than It is this:- is required. I see no obJeCtiOn to t~1at, pro­ "It shall be lawful for the Governor with the vided that the proposed rent be paid. But advice of the Executive Council to grant leases of any allotment or allotments in any agricultural as this Bill is intended to apply rather to reserve, or· of any portions of country la';'ds farmers than pastoral occupants of the which may have been put up for sale by auctwn country I feel sure that every man who and have not been bid for and the lea~es afore­ avails himself of it v;ill be satisfied with 320 said shall be granted in the following terms- acres. If he intends to cultivate his land, " (1.) For a term not exceeding five years that area will be quite sufficient for al~ tl:e and for areas containing not less than ordinary purposes of farming such as It IS Agricultural Resm·ves [6 .TuLX.) Amendment Bill. 369 pursued at present in this colony. Then I .January 1st and .July 1st, and that the money propose that the rent shall be two shillings shall always be paid· in . advance. Now I per acre, payable in advance. Thls may think no better terms could be made for the appear a large sum of money for a small Government ; they would receive a liberal farmer to pay as rent, and much higher than rent, and would not part with any land until the rent paid for the large tracts of country the tenant had expended nearly all his capital occupied by the present leaseholders in the upon it. If these provisions were not com­ Darling Downs district; for even tmder the plied with, they could re-occupy the land. I new valuations, they are held at something, think some such stipulation necessary, because I believe in no case exceeding, one penny per persons might perhaps take up land for other acre. The minimum amount, I believe, pro­ purposes than those contemplated by the Act, posed by the Act is a little over one farthing and if it is necessary to place restrictions per acre, and, if I am correctly informed, upon the holders of such farms, it can according to the new valuations they are not be done in that way. The last proposition likely to pay more than one penny per acre. is, that these persons should have a right It may, therefore, seem that I am a,sking a to purchase their farms at the rate of two great deal when I propose that the farmers pounds per acre. Now, it may be asked, why shall pay two shillings an acre for their land. should they be asked to pay more than other :But I believe many of them would rather persons who enjoy the same advantages ?­ pay this high rent than expend their capital why should they be called upon to pay two in the purchase of land at one pound, two pounds, when the upset price of Crown pounds, or even sometimes three pounds lands is one pound per acre i' I am not pre­ an acre. I know that this is what pre­ pared to say they should give more. I put vents many persons from settling on it in this way to shew that those who their land-they part with most of their already are in possession of leases, should money in the actual purchase of their property, allow these leaseholders similar privileges. and then find themselves without means to I put the price at two pounds to conci­ carry on their farming operations. I think, liate the pastoral leaseholders, and especially if the Government would be content to accept those in the clistrict of Darling Downs. the rent in the. meanti:ri:te, they would afford No doubt a great deal might be said upon such men time to devote themselves to the this question, and I shall be glad to obtain an improvement of the property they wish to expression of opinion from this House. I do purchase eventually. I have been confirmed not wish unnecessarily to press my views in this view by statements from gentlemen upon the House, but I think the scheme I conversant with these matters as they are have proposed would be a safe and equitable now being carried out in the Darling ·Downs instalment oflegislation for the country. No district. I am. aware that the district of harm could arise, and a great deal of good Warwick is considered better adapted to might accrue from it. It may be that no agricultural pursuits than any other district persons will be found to avail themselves of in the colony. It is admimbly situated for these leasehold rights ; but I say, let us try. the purposes contemplated by this Act. I am If intending farmers are willing to accept informed that farming in that district is these terms, in preference to purchasing their tolerably successful, and that a farmer in one land outright, let us offer them. And I think good season may make a handsome return we may also consider this question in connec­ for his outlay. Latterly, the seasons have tion with another measure which the honor­ been very unfavorable to farming pursuits, able Secretary for Lands and Works will and I believe many persons have lost all they probably submit to the House-the Crown possessed, and have even had to mortgage Lands Non-Competitive Sales :Bill. I see no their properties to obtain money to go on objection to grant this privilege. I do not with, for which they paid a considerable say that the :Bill, as at present drafted, meets amount of interest. 'l'hat was not a very with my entire approval. :But I think it is cheering prospect,-they had expended their desirable to hold out inducements to all capital, and had to borrow money without classes. I think it is quite right to offer any certainty that their crops would enable every inducement to the pastoral occupants to them to return it ! :But I am informed that purchase their leaseholds ; but, at the same in many instances they retrieved their losses time, I wish to hold out inducements to other during the last good season. I have this persons, who may be of equal benefit to the upon the authority of a gentleman, who ad­ country. And, therefore, I say that, while I vanced largely to these farmers, and who is am prepared to accept the :Bill which the therefore in a position to know. .A.t one time honorable member has proposed to introduce, he feared that he had invested his capital in I ask for an instalment of further privileges a non-productive pursuit ; but he has since to a different class of the commtmity, who found that his securities are good, and he has are also desirous of becoming purchasers of received large repayments of the sums he Crown lands. I think both these :Bills may advanced. 1'hat goes to shew that in good safely be passed ; but I do not think justice seasons, at all events, a farmer may make a would be done if one were passed without considerable profit out of his land. I have the other. I hope the House will give an proposed also that the lea11cs shall date from expression of opinion on the subject. I 2x 370 A.griculttt·ral Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

believe that, if both these measures become House and the public should know them. law, a considerable concession will be made And then I think the honorable members who to the agricultural interests of this colony. made the assertions to which I have referred, Mr. W .A.TTS : Sir, I ris~ at this early stage will admit that they have made a mistake ; of the debate in order to disabuse the minds and if thev have believed that we have of honorable members on the opposite side brought any pressure to bear upon the Gov­ of the House, who on a former occasion ernment for our own benefit, they will see expressed themselves so strongly in reference that such is not the case. The resolutions to certain resolutions which were brought are as follows :- under the consideration of the honorable " 1. That it is expedient the land question shall Secretary for Lands and Works. I know be now settled. , that on that occasion certain honorable "2. That the Government sh<1ll at all times have members gave expression to opinions for power to reserve lands from the squatting leases, which they were afterwards sorry. But those for the formation of agricultural or other reserves. opinions have gone forth to the world. It has " 3. That all lands so reserved shall be put up to been stated that there are certain honorable public auction at the upset price of £1 per acre, and if not disposed of on the clay of sale, to be members on this side of the House who are open for selection, except in town reserves. to a certain extent subservient to the Govern­ "4. That not more than 25,000, or less·than ment, and that when they support the 20,000 acres shall be kept open for sale in each of Government they do so on the principle of the ·clist1·icts of Darling Downs, Moreton, Wide quid pro quo. Now, sir, I wish to shew that Bay, Port Curtis, and Port Denison. if we do support the Government, we have " 5. That all pastoral leases now or hereafter only one motive in doing so, and that is to expiring, shall be renewed for a further period of promote the interest of the colony at large. fourteen years, during which tenure the Govern­ Sir, as I have said upon a former occasion, it ment shall have power to resume and put up for has been proved, both in this House and by the sale any lands . required ; and, further, that .the country, that class legislation is bad, else the le•see may call for a special survey of any portion Bm which has this day been submitted to us of the run, in blocks of not less than 640 acres, would never have been brought down to this the said blocks to be submitt~cl to public auction; House. It is a measure which is intended to and in the event of the bssee not being the pur­ extend benefits to a certain. class of the chaser, the vendee shall pay all expenses of survey, together with the value of all improvements on the communitywho have taken up lands under saicllancl. certain restrictions imposed by a former Act. " 6. That all speciaJ surveys shall b'l\ rnade, I cordially agree with such a measure, and subject to the provisions laid down in the Orders am desirpus of protecting those persons who in Council. have been. placed in. an awkward position by "7. 'l'hat a deputation be appointed to wait upon false legislation, and am prepared to support the honorable the 0\finister for Lands and W'orks, this Bill, or any Bill which will ~ive to urge the necessity of a Government measure them time to retrieve themselves. I say It is being introduced embodying the principles affir­ our bounden duty towards gentlemen who med in the resolutions passed at this meeting, have expended their time and capital in and repealing any existing Acts contrary to their improving their land, to afford them some purport." opportunity of recovering themselves. Hold­ Now, sir, it will be seen at once that these ing that view, sir, and believing, as I do, that resolutions are of a most impartial character; unless we pass some such measure, we shall they actually embody the proposition of the only be perpetuating the difficulty-and espe­ honorable member for Port Curtis, and they cially if we aclmit the amendment of the honor­ propose to keep open, at all events, for sale able member for Port Curtis and introduce a not less than 20,000 acres of land in each of leasing clause in this Act, which will have the the populated districts of the colony. There effect of inducing persons to take up land are, I admit, other districts in the far interior under certain regulations which they will which we have not named, but it is simply never be able to comply with-I and other because there is not sufficient population in gentlemen holcling similiar views, met and them to warrant such reserves being made. passed certain resolutions which, at the But it is not intended by these resolutions to request of the meeting, were submitted to the prevent land from being reserved in all parts honorable Secretary for Lands and Works as of the colony wherever they may be an expression of our ideas upon the subject. required ; because the 5th resolution states And I think this House will certainly give us that lands can be taken, from time to time,.by credit for not evincing any desire to preserve the Government from the leases for purposes to ourselves the large tracts ofland which the of sale. I believe this will be found the best honorable member for Port Curtis says we way of disposing of these lands ; and I thinli: possess. Those resolutions will shew that we I shall be able to shew that all those persons were quite prepared to go with the times, who have gone to auction and purchased their and to offer these lands to those who co1.lld land have attained to a far more advanced purchase and pay for them. We were pre­ stage of cultivation__,.:that is to say, in the pared to give way, and to go with the times. neighborhood of Drayton . and Toowoomba, Now, sir, I shall read these resolutions to the and, I think I may say, Warwick-than House, because I think it is right that the those who have paid rent for it under the Agricultural Reserves [6 JULY.] Amendment Bill. 371

Agricultural Reserves Act. To shew the emptive right, or in whatever way the lands difference between the two systems, I will are taken up-the valleys, and best portions point out that on the occasion of the last of the colony; and, by and bye, we shall find extension of the agricultural reserve at that the greater portion of the lands left on Warwick, the land at the lower part of the our hands will not be worth half the price of town was offered to the inhabitants as a those which are offered for sale at present. reserve ; but for some reason known only to And therefore, I think, when we enter fairly themselves they preferred the land at the upon the consideration of the whole question, upper part of the· town. The site of the and we employ our collective wisdom in fram­ reserve was accordingly altered to meet the ing such a Land Bill, we should provide that wishes of the people, and the reserve was all lands offered for sale, and not sold, should proclaimed and open for selection, while the be open for selection,-say, for one year,-at land at the lower part of the town was put up the upset price of one pound per acre. ., Then, for auction and realised a considerable price I think, an officer might be appointed-either per acre. I may say, sir, that it is not our the Surveyor General or any other qualified wish to lock up the lands of the colony ; but person,-whose business it should be to go we feel that, if we perpetuate a system which into the country, and ascertain the actual allows persons who have no money to take value-after the twelve months-of the unsold possession of the land with the understanding lands. We might then, if it were found that on some future day they shall pay for necessary, reduce the price to fifteen shillings it, we shall be continuing a ruinous legis­ an acre, and perhaps, after a further twelve lation. I think they should be entitled to as months, to ten shillings. By this means, many acres as they can afford to purchase ; the bad land would be sold as well as the but to offer a bonus to persons to take up good. In the neighborhood of Drayton and land in agricultural reserves which they have Toowoomba, there are a number of stony neither the means, nor perhaps the intention, ranges, which will never be sold by the of paying for, is, in my opinion, only a Government, unless at a reduced price. · But delusion and a snare. I may quote an instance if they were surveyed in blocks, and offered which has already been published in the for sale at ten shillings an acre, they would papers. A gentleman took up land in the probably be purchased by the adjacent settlers, agricultural reserve at Toowoomba. He and added to their farms. I believe a measure applied to purchase 60 acres, which gave him of this kind would be as liberal a measure the privilege of taking up 320 acres on lease. as any which has been introduced in these He does this without an:y intention of farming colonies ; and, Vlrith the exception of the the land, and goes and cuts it up into small fourteen years' leases, which may be looked lots and offers it for sale, actually, I believe, upon with little favor by some honorable before he has paid the Government. Now members, there can be nothing whatever to look at the injustice of such a system. This . cavil at. I may, however, point out that person takes up the land at £1 per acre, and, whether a lease be granted for·· one year or instead of making use of it as an agricul­ fourteen, it makes no difference whatever to turist, becomes a land jobber. He gets the public, since the Government could have an advance upon the land-some £300, I the power of taking possession of the lands believe-and takes advantage of the Act to whenever they might be required for purposes make money out of it without, in any way, of sale. Such a system would give stability to caiTying out the object contemplated by the a class of persons who have for many years Legislature. I believe, sir, these lands should been contending with great difficulties, and be sold, and that the purchasers should not who have not, in the majority of cases, be trammelled by any restrictions. Let them achieved that amount of success, or realised pay their money and take possession. Sup­ those fortunes, which have been attributed to posing I go into the store of a Brisbane them. And if that has not been the case in merchant and purchase certain goods. After the much vaunted district of Darling Downs, I have paid my cash, is he to tell me how I what is the position of the squatters in less am to dispose of my purchase ? Therefore favored districts ? For we are nearer to a I say, that in dealing with the lands of the market, Vlrithin a more convenient distance of colony, the best thing is for the squatters to a port for our imports and exports, and have give way, and let the people have the lands if other advantages which they do not possess. they can pay for them. But I say, it is not And I say that, if the tenure of leases is right to allow them to get into the possession limited to five years, the bankers and moneyed of men who will hold them for four or five men who are associated with pastoral pursuits, .;y:ears without turning in any revenue from will hesitate to advance money upon the them, and then perhaps be unable to pay for securities which these properties will offer, them. I say, it would be far better to put and the result will be, I have very little them up to auction, and sell them even at five doubt, that many of them will sell out in shillings an acre. I do not, however, think it order to get back their investments, and a would be desirable at present to reduce the good deal of distress will ensue. Therefore upset price of one pound an acre, because we I contend that, while we are extending do not measure out the lands altogether. privileges to one class, let us also p{·otect the We are selecting-whether for sale, for pre- other. With regard to the pre-emptive right, 372 .Agricultural Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment BiU.

I sh.ould be glad to extend it to our northern appeared, understand what those laws really friends, but, at the same time, I should not were. If he looked into them, he would find like to extend it further in the southern that they included everything except the districts in the manner proposed by the fourteen years leases. The Government honorable member for Port Curtis. It has could. enter upon any run they chose and been said that the eyes of the country have reserve for sale any portion they liked. As been picked out by the squatters. I deny far as that went, no alteration was required. that, and I affirm that, instead of injuring the The honorable member had a seat in the colony and benefiting themselves only, they House when those Acts were passed. He have been benefactors to the colony. They must be aware that there was a a considerable have locked up large sums of money which, opposition to the extended leases. The as has been proved in New South Wales, will squatters of that day acted in a liberal spirit, perhaps never yield them a return. And I and the best proof of that was the rapid way may say that, at ~he present. rate of assess­ in which the territory had been stocked. ment, we are paymg somewhere at the rate Those who had settled in the north had of £16 l4,s. sa. for every thousand sheep admitted the liberality of our land laws ; and depastured on the best lands, and at the same the number of persons who had come over rate upon the bad lands, the only difference from New South Wales and Victoria to settle being that, where the country is not capable in Queensland, afforded a further proof of of carrying the same amount of stock per the justice as well as liberality of our legis­ acre, the area is increased. I believe this lature. The resolutions of the honorable additional assessment will press very heavily member for Western Downs (Mr. Watts) upon some of the squatters, and if they get contained nothing at all, except a desire on an extended tenure of their lands they will the part of the squatters to have their leases pay it the more readily, as they will not in extended to fourteen years. He affirmed that case be pressed to pay the money bor­ that it was so, and if he thought such an rowed upon their properties. I trust the ,extension would be any real boon to the honorable member for Port Curtis will see squatters, he would vote with them; but he that we are prepared to go almost the full believed it would be the very reverse. Sup­ length of his suggestions, and that he will posing it were carried, there would be an withdraw his amendments, and allow the Bill excuse at no distant date for re-opening the to pass as it originally came before the House. question. For, if a comprehensive measm·e And I am sure that he and other honorable were passed next session, what would there members will be able, during the next session, be to prevent the introduction of another to assist the honorable Secretary for Lands comprehensive measure in three years time? and vV orks in framing such a measure to deal -what was there to prevent the introduction with the lands of this colony, as will be of resolutions of a totally opposite cb,.aracter? satisfactory to all classes of the community. In point of fact, it was a question of pre­ 1\'Ir. DouGLAS said he omitted to move, at emptive right vers~ts free selection. But the conclusion of his. speech, that the Bill be while he said this much in opposition to the re-committed. He therefore took the oppor­ views of the squatters, he was equally tunity of remedying the omission. opposed to the views of the honorable mem­ Mr. MACKENZIE .said, in reference to the ber for Port Curtis. He considered both first part of the speech which the honorable propositions insidious, but more particularly Secretary for Lands and Works had addressed . the second, which proposed that land which to the House, he was at a loss to understand ' had not been sold in any part of the colony what necessity existed at this stage to re-open should be open for lease. He had. carefully the land laws at all. Every one would admit watched the progress of free selection in that they had worked very well, with the New South Wales, and he was convinced it single exception of the Agricultural Reserves had proved the greatest curse to the colony. Act, which had certainly not been successful It had been the ruin of many of the free in its operation, the idea which it embodied selectors themselves, and it had been the having been more theoretical than practical. means of harboring a class of cattle-stealers He had no objection to the re-adjustment of and lawless settlers, which had done. a great that Act, but he could see no reason for deal more harm than good to the country. entering upon the whole question of land It had been remarked, that to shorten the legislation. He did not concur with the tenure of the leases would affect the propositions of thtJ honorable member for securities upon which the squatters borrowed. Port Curtis, because he thought the reason But he could state that the system of·· free the amended Bill before the House was selection in New South Wales rendered them introduced was, that the Government found to a certain extent valueless ; for bankers great difficulty in collecting the rents from and moneyed men declined to advance the present occupants of land in the agricul­ upon any stations where there were free tural reserves. He could see no reason why selectors in the neighborhood. The adoption the squatters should have any desire to re-open of such a principle would, therefore, bring the land laws. He believed"it was a fallacy about the very evils which it was sought to on their part. The honorable member for avoid. For if the squatters attempted to Western Downs (Mr. Watts) did not, as it obtain an extension of their leases to fourteen Agricultural Reserves (6 JULY.) .timenclment Bill. 373 years, it would only have the effect of re-committal. It appeared to him that the causing some honorable member representing legislation on the land question was childish. another class to bring in a ·series of counter The Bill had been postponed several times resolutions, embodying the principle of free by the honorable the Minister for Lands and selection. As far as the agricultural reserves Works. If it was a suitable measure for the were concerned, he would point out that exigency of the time-if it was necessary for only half the lands thrown open to selection the carrying out of certain provisions-for had been taken up, which was a sufficient the settlement of certain arrangements that proof that the supply was quite equal to the had been made with the tenants or pensioners demand. He had always considered the of the Crown,-the honorable member was not agricultural reserves a mistake-it was a justified in postponing it for any trivial circum­ mistake to suppose that they were used for stance. There was nothing in the remon­ the purposes of cultivation. Many of them strance of the honorable member for West­ were on the borders of large cattle runs, and ern Downs to justify a Minister of the were used as cattle stations for the purpose Crown in making such an unjust, such an of getting hold of calves and stray cattle, unstatesman-like proposition as had been but not for agricultural purposes-they made. For himself, he (Mr. Walsh) should become in fact small squattages. If legisla­ vote for the re-committal of the Bill ; and tion were to go on at the same rate, no one he trusted that before it passed through would. know what were really the laws which committee it would be improved. The governed the lands of the colony. It was said first clause proposed by the honorable mem­ by a Victorian squatter, in speaking on this ber for Port Curtis should be carried ; subject, "We are so pitchforked about by the but he sincerely trusted that the second Victorian Government, that we don't know would not be carried, for it would be most what laws we are living under." He should injurious to the country that the tenants certainly oppose the introduction of the of the Crown should be dispersed for proposed measure to extend the leases to the purpose of raising up a rival tenantry, fourteen years. He would far sooner, if he and it was contrary to all our past thought the rate of assessment pressed too acts and ideas. The old tenants of the heavily upon the squatters, give them their Crown should be removed as soon as pos­ leases for nothing for the next five years. sible, but not by the Government raising up The case of the Darling Downs squatters for a rival tenantry to oppose them. The honor­ the last ten years had been rather an able member should withdraw that portion of exceptional one. They had reaped the his proposed amendment, and accept a sugges­ benefit of the gold discoveries, and the great tion from him, that in addition to the Moreton demand for stork and other advantages which and Darling Downs districts-in which fifty did not ~j,pply to them generally. He could thousand acres should be surveyed for agri­ fully understand that their interest was not culture within twelve months-the district of so flourishing at present ; and therefore he Wide Bay be included in clause number two. should be glad to do anything to relieve That district had as much right to be con­ them, but not to the extent of giving them sidered an agricultural district as any other ; pre-emptive rights or long leases. He had it would not be justice to single out that-the understood the honorable Secretary for most prominent agricultural district in the Lands and Works to say that he intended to colony-and place it in a lower scale than those introduce such a bill, and if so, he c_ould only before-mentioned. Honorable members who say that he should feel obliged to oppose it. represented the rich districts of the north, Mr. WALSH said the House had been led would be able to say that their districts should aside from the question by the last two be similarly served. If sufficient agricultural speakers. The long speech they had heard land could be found in any district to sustain from the honorable member for Western an agricultural population, by throwing it open Downs (Mr. Watts) was wholly irrelevant ; to easy acquisition by the people, it would be for measures which we1·e not before the House a great boon supplied to them, and a real had been shadowed forth by him, and, if he blessing to the country. He distrusted the (Mr. Walsh) really spoke what he thought, glowing promises of surrender by honorable such measures as would not be brought before members opposite, and hoped to see the Bill them this session. It would be as well to go re-committed. back to the question; and they should Mr. FrrzsrMliWNS said he was in favor of endeavor without further delay to settle the the re-committal of the ·Bill, for the subject point whether the Bill should be re-com­ ought not to be lightly determined. He pro­ mitted for amendment, or whether it should be bably should not have spoken upon it had he passed in its present shape. He charged not been at the meeting where the resolution the honorable the Minister for Lands and was passed which had been read by the honor­ Works with inconsistency in his dealing able member for Western Downs, Mr. Watts; with the Bill ; for that honorable member and he thought that he was called upon to had himself restored the Bill to the paper give some explanation of his opinion on the for the purpose of allowing the honorable subject. It appeared to him that the Govern­ member for Port Curtis to introduce his ment had power to resume any lands in the amendments, and now he opposed the colony required for agricultural purposes, or, 3741 AgrirJu,ltural Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment· Bill. indeed, for any public purpose. He should but, when he ·looked at the principle upon be glad to see large tracts of land kept open which the lands of the colony were now in the agricultural reserves ; but so far as the leased, for pastoral purposes, he thought that selling and leasing of that land was concerned, when an agricultural reserve was defined, the he must certainly disagree with the honor­ Government would do well to lease the lands able member for Port Curtis. He went with to the agriculturist on the same principle. It his honorable friend, the member for Mary­ had been said by honorable members who borough, in saying that the portion of the had preceded him that the most thrifty honorable member's (Mr. Douglas') proposed farmers, after purchasing their lands, wel·e amendment on the :Bill which referred to ruined, because they had not capital to enable sale and lease, should not be passed. There them to fulfil the conditions under the Agri­ was something unreasonable in charging an cultural Reserves Act. It had been argued, agriculturist two shillings an acre for land also, that the land laws of this colony' should rent, when they all knew well that the be, like the laws of the Medes and Persians, squatters were not paying more than a penny unchangeable. His own opinion was that there an acre in the best parts of the colony. should be a complete revolution in the land Then, the two shillings an acre would be laws every five years, to meet the requirements paid for land which would not be taken up of the community. Hitherto, the land laws for purchase-for the refuse lands in the agri­ of this colony had worked much better than cultural reserves. Again, to charge two the land laws in any of the colonies ; - pounds an acre to the purchaser would be hence, the introduction of capital from the doing an injustice to the agriculturist, when other colonies. With regard to the raising up they knew that the squatters could take up of a rival tenantry against the old tenants of any lands they pleased at one pound an acre ; the Crown, he could not see that it would be and it was still refuse lands that would be an injury to the country. The two interests, offered to the agriculturist-lands refused at agricultural and pastoral, would stimulate one pound an acre by others. To give effect one another to increased production. It was to such conditions for the agriculturist would evident that there was a great desire by be to act in contravention of the opinions persons in the colony to obtain a tenure of entertained and expressed by the House in land otherwise than by purchase ; and if favor of the agriculturist. Indeed, he honorable members looked at the quantity of thought one pound an acre was more land that had been taken up by the cotton than the agriculturist could pay ; for he companies, the sugar-growing companies, and, (Mr. Fitzsimmons) believed that the land in fact, by any means that would give an was not worth it. Reference had been interest in land other than by paying the made to the great advantage which it would purchase money at once, they would see that be to the squatters to have the right to what he asserted was correct ..!!% Those IJUl'chase land at that price. He believed instances were patent to the House-that that, in the present state of the colony, very land was taken up with the interest of the few would avail themselves of that right-­ capital ; and the principle that was carried very few, indeed, who had taken up land out under the cotton and sugar regulations under the regulations of 1860 would exercise was introduced in the new clauses proposed it. Nothing could be more ruinous than !or by the honorable member for Port Ctirtis. a man to purchase his stations. No land in He thought the House could not do the colony, at any distance from the towns, better than accept the honorable member's was worth one pound an acre, either for the amendments. He should support there-com­ agriculturist or the grazier. mittal of the :Bill, and, in committee, the Mr. FoRBES said he had opposed the second second of the new clauses proposed by the reading of the :Bill, believing at the time that honorable member for Port Curtis. it was a useless piece of legislation ; but the Mr. BRoOKEs said he thought the impres­ amendments which the honorable member for sion on the House was that great good must Port Curtis intended to propose put a new arise from the Bill being re-committed, and face on it altogether, for they introduced a the Ministry would not offer any opposition principle that he perfectly agreed with. The to that course ; but as there was ·a good deal State would be justified in farming the lands of of other business on the paper, and for the the colony, as much so as a private individual. sake of despatch, he moved that the re­ He would ask those gentlemen who had become committal of the Bill stand an order of the possessed of large tracts of land, what was day for Tuesday. their object in so doing? It was profit. If Mr. HALY said he was astonished that such they found that they could lease their lands a suggestion should come from the Opposition at half as much again per acre as they obtained side of the House, after the strong expres­ in profit by grazing them, they would lease sions against the honorable Minister for Lands them. Why should not the Government of for postponing the Bill so often. He certainly this colony keep the whole of our vast domains approved of the re-committal of the Bill. The in their own hands ? It had been asserted, squatters had been blamed for wanting to that the principle of leasing lands for agricul­ bring forward new land regulations ; but who tural purposes was another way of bringing were to blame for the changes that had been about free selection. That he could not see; so frequently made in the agricultural laws, Ag'1'icultural Resm·ves [6 JutY.] Amendment Bill. 375 the cotton regulations, the .bonuses, the because, as had been observed by the honor­ grants P He thought it would be best to have able member for W arrego, the House could some comprehensive legislation on the lands not see what might be required by that time, at once that would do away with all existing and tliey need not legislate for fourteen years. restrictions, and put an end to"the tinkering The honorable member .for Port Curtis had with the land laws annually. Let the land be pointed out that on 31st December, 1864, put up to public competition, and let the there were only 503 acres of land open for purchaser do what he liked with it. Honor­ selection. He (Mr. Groom) was in a position able members said "No, no," to that ; but to state that an able surveyor, perhaps the he believed that he had as much interest in best qualified in the colony, had surveyed a this colony as any honorable member, and he portion of the Main Range known as Merin~ intended to stick to it as closely as any man gidan ; and that gentleman had declared that in it. He had been here seven and twenty there was a large portion of it the best agri­ years, and he should stick to the colony to cultural land in the colony : and that would the end. He certainly should be one of the be open for selection so soon as the Bill last men in the colony to ask for a new Land passed. He regarded the loth clause of the Bill, if he did not see such perpetual tinker­ Bill as the most important ; it was the essence ing, and if he had not heard that the existing of the measure ; it had a retrospective effect, law .did not accomplish the end for which it and would be a boon to agriculturists was framed. The cotton bonuses were wrong generally. Many who, from the dry season of -all the restrictions upon agricultural land 1864, had not been able to get a crop in, and were wrong. The best way was to allow any who had not been able· to fence in their lands man to buy land ; and he could let it lie till aJ;J.d comply with the restrictions, would be he had money to cultivate-he could do as relieved by it ; but it would be a great loss to he liked with it. them if this Bill did not pass. He could not, Mr. GROOM said, that when the matter was therefore, do otherwise than vote for the third previously before the House, he supported reading. the honorable member for Port Curtis in Dr. CHALLINOR said, that before addressing having it reconsidered, because he then himself to the question he would refer to some thought there was some force in the clause remarks which had been made on a previous which that honorable member wished to occasion respecting the clause in the Bill which introduce into the Bill ; but he had since gave the Government power to make regula­ very carefully reflected on it, and· when he tions. It. had been distinctly stated that the looked at the Bill the third reading of which giving of such a power was contrary to imperial had just been proposed, and which was in a practice, and that it-to say the least of it­ position to go to the Legislative Council, he was a slovenly way of bringing measures could scarcely see that he would be justified, before Parliament. He held that it was posi­ as a dut:y: to himself and a large number of tively the in1perial practice, and, therefore, it his constituents, in voting for the re-committal ought not to be characterised as un-English of the Bill. If he did so, he should jeo­ or slovenly. In the Act 9 and 10 Victoria, pardize the welfare of more than one hundred No. 10, which was "An Act to amend an Act of his constituents-perhaps, ruin them for regulating the sale of waste lands belong­ -whom the Bill was meant to relieve ; ing to the Crown in the Australian colonies for, if the amendments. were made in and to make further provision for the manage­ the Bill, the Government might throw ment thereof," assented to on 21st August, it up altogether. If that should take 1846, he found, in the 6th clause, the follow­ place, what was to become of those people P ing:- There were on the Toowoomba Agricultural --"respecting any other matters and things Reserve UJ2Wards of one hundred individuals which may be requisite either for carrying into who were looking forward to the passing of more complete effect the 'occupation in manner the Bill with the greatest anxiety, because aforesaid of such waste lands as aforesaid or for they wei·e unable to comply with the restric­ preventing the abuses incident thereto Be it tions of 1863 ;'and, therefore, they ran the enacted thatit shall be lawfulfor Her Majesty by risk of forfeiture of their lands and the any Order or Orders in Council to make and improvements on them if the Bill should establish all such rules and regulations as to Her not pass. He thought he had a duty to per­ Majesty shall seem meet for the purposes aforesaid form to those individuals, and that duty was or for any of them and any such rules and regula­ tions again to repeal renew alter and amend and paramount to all other considerations ; and that all such Orders in Council shall have the force he would not jeopardise their prosperity and effect of law in the colonies aforesaid."-- by refusing to consent to the third reading of the Bill, after the lucid explanation of the Mr. LILLEY: A Crown colony. honorable Secretary for Lands and Works. Dr. CHALLINOR: Those regulations were He was, at first, under the .impression that made by the Queen in Council, and.the regu­ the honorable gentleman would accede to the lations here were made by the Governor in resolutions of the honorable member for Port Council. Curtis ; and, after all, he did not see any " Provided also that all such Orders in Council objection to them, except as to the fourteen shall be laid before Parliament within one month years' lea.ses, which was objectionable, from the day of the date thereof respectively if 376 L1g'l'icultural Reserves [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

Parliament shall then be in session or if not then found that farmers were unable to meet their within one month next after the commencement requirements at present-that persons had of the then next ensuing session of Parliament and rushed into agriculture who had not the that no such Order repealing renewing altering or means of carrying it on, who had not the amending any such former Order shall be of any capital in the first instance, or who, from bad force or effect till the lapse of six months next seasons, had failed-he was perfectly con­ after such repealing renewing altering or amending vinced that if the people had an easier mode of Order shall have been so laid before Parliament and that all such Orders in Council shall be pub­ going on the land to pursue farming, as the lished forthwith in the London Gazette." amendments of the honorable member for Port Curtis proposed, the evils which the He took it that the reason why so long a Bill was meaJit to remedy would be greatly time as six months was named, was, that the increased. If people could go on the land at colonists should be made fully acquainted a rent of two shillings an acre, with the right with the alterations and have time to appeal to make an absolute purchase at two pounds, to the Imperial Parliament to have the regu­ the evils under which the agriculturists suf­ lations amended, before they could come into fered would be increased, and the House force as the law of the land. The Govern­ would, five years hence, have to pass another ment was now on the spot, and had the same Bill to relieve them. power to make regulations ; and he main­ Mr. PuGH : Give them a long lease. tained that it was not contrary to English Dr. CHALLINOR : No; he was opposed to practice and slovenly. that. · In America, the leaseholders of the Mr. LILLEY : It is slovenly. State had become so numerous as to affect Dr. CHALLINOR : The power was given in the councils of the country, and to force the respect to the same subject-the dealing with Legislature to pass an Act to give them the the waste lands of the Crown. He did not fee-simple of their land. He believed in the see any reason for again going into committee people, his sympathies were with the people ; on the Bill, except to deal wfth a part of the and he believed in " the greatest good for the 8th clause. He had observed that previously; greatest number" ; but he did not believe in but at the time it was before the committee, injuring the few. Though the principle of he was fatigued, owing to the late nights and leasing land for agricultural purposes was the previous labors of the day, and it had good in its intention, aJ;td quite equitable in slipped through before he was aware of it. theory, in practice it would be found exceed­ That clause enacted- ingly injurious. The same might be said of " If any lands held under lease for pastoral the propositions referred to by the hono1·able purposes be brought within the limits of an agri­ member for the Western Downs, l\fr. Watts ; cultural reserve such lease shall not be thereby if they were carried into effect, it would cancelled but such lands shall be notwithstanding be a mere revival of the pre-emptive open to purchase in like manner as any other system, for the simple reason that the 1and part of the reserve." would be put up in large blocks, and at It appeared to him not very clear--,-indced, convenient times, when the squatters could it gave the right to the lessee to purchase defy competition and purchase them. The the lands which were not in the reserve. same applied to the agricul'tural reserves The SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS : propounded by that honorable member. He No; not at all. (Dr. Challinor) was quite sure that if the Dr. CHALLINOR : That was the reason he Government were so disposed, they could get should like to go into committee again. It large quantities of the reserves passed at appeared to him to be what the honorable auction, and then the pastoral lessees could member, Mr. R. Cribb, would call the pro­ come in when they were ready and purchase. viding for the pre-emptive right by a side- One thing was certain and perfectly clear, wind. · that the value of land depended on the The SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS : quantity thrown into the market ; and if No, no. large quantities were thrown into the market, Dr. CHALLINOR : He had no other reason it would never of course fetch more than the to wish for the re-committal of the Bill ; and upset price. An honorable member had as the House had the word of the Govern­ spoken of the abuse of the first Agricultural ment that it was not intended to revive the Reserves Act : it was to meet that, that the pre-emptive right in any form whatever, he second Act was passed. But he should not should not vote for the re-committal ; yet he be too hard on the farmers. He (Dr. Challi­ hoped that the clause would be made clear nor) would ask, were not runs taken up, and hereafter. He was not in favor of free selec­ were they not stocked with the minimum tion or deferred payments. He was quite quantity of stock, for the purpose of being willing to admit that, as Crown lands were sold ? It had been said that the land on the leased for pastoral purposes at such a small ranges should be reduced to ten shillings rent as one penny or two-pence per acre, on an acre. He was quite sure that the ex­ the same principle the agricultural lands pense of clearing the ranges would be far should be leased at a low rent : he admitted greater than would be incurred iri the that it was just in princiJ?le, but in practice purchase of good land elsewhere with little it would be found very mjurious. If they timber on it at one pound an acre. With Agricultural Reserves [6 J"ULY.] Amendment Bill. 37'1' reference to what had been said about necessary. Nor did he think that if any the Darling Downs runs, he asked, were honorable member representing the middle or those runs in the hands of the original northern districts applied to the honorable holders ? What premiums had the present Secretary for Lands and Works, and pointed holders paid for them ? If the runs did not out the necessity of setting apart such pay, it was on account of the interest that reserves, he would find any difficulty in had to be paid, if they had been bought with carrymg out their views. Therefore, he borrowed capital ; and on account of the loss could see no necessity to re-commit the of interest, 1f they had been purchased with Bill for the purposes specified in the bona fide capital. first clause of the amendment. The second Mr. MILES said he did not so much clause he would only refer to, to express object to the first proposition contained his entire disapproval of it. He con­ in the new clauses proposed by the honor­ curred with the honorable member for able member for Port Curtis, but he Maranoa, that it was an unsound principle to decidedly objected to the second. He offer facilities to any persons to get into strongly objected to the principle of affording debt. .Although several honorable members facilities to persons to get into debt. He had spoken in disapproval of agricultural believed such a system would prove a total reserves, he could not agree with them. The failure, and that persons taking up land in an first Bill certainly did not operate success­ agricultural reserve, with the view of paying fully; but the second Bill was what, in his for it in three or fom· years time, would never opinion, the original should have been, and be able to carry out such an arrangement. he thought it would meet the requirements On the contrary, the longer they remained of the country for many years to come. He !1-POU it, the more they would get into debt. would refer to another reason for opposing He should, therefore, vote against the recom­ the re-committal of the Bill. The honorable mittal of the Bill. member for the Burnett (Mr. Haly), in the Mr. CoxEN said, when the honorable course of his remarks, had stated that he did member for Port Curtis gave notice of his not believe in the restrictions imposed by intention to move an amendment upon the the .Agricultural Reserves .Act, and that he Bill before the House, he was certainly thought it would be right to do a~ay with prepared to go with him as far as the first them altogether. But then the Bill would clause in his resolutions went, and to extend not refer to agricultural reserves at all. It the agricultural reserves upon some larger would m\)rely be a question of so much and better defined scale. But after listening surveyed land open for selection. Fearing, to the statement of the honorable Secretary therefore, that such a principle might be for Lands and Works, that.:"it was the inten­ introduced, he should vote against there-com­ tion of the Government to bring forward a mittal of the Bill. comprehensive measure which would embrace Mr. R. CRIBB said it was his intention to all the Crown lands of the colony ; he could oppose the re-committal of the Bill-he had not see that at present any necessity existed expressed the same opinion on a former for the changes which the honorable member occasion. He was entirely OffilOsed to the proposed, and he would give his reasons for principle of leasing lands foF agricultural that opinion .. He found, by a return which purposes, and to deferred payments. he had moved for, that the lands now open Mr. DALRYMPLE said he merely rose for for selection represented a total of about the purpose of exculpating_ the honorable 80,000 acres, spread over the different parts Minister for Lands and Works from the of the colony. That appeared to him to be charges which had been brought against him quite sufficient for present requirements-at by honorable members on the opposite side any rate, for the next twelve months. Inde­ of the House, in reference to the manner in pendent of that, there was another reason which he had postponed his motion until to object to the amendment. He had learned the present occasion. He (Mr. Dalrymple), that evening from the honorable member for as a representative of a northern district, the Western Downs, that the Government must say that in his opinion the honorable intended to extend the agricultural reserves gentleman had acted with the greatest in the Darling Downs district, and as he was courtesy towards the whole of the northern acquainted with that district, he could state districts, in postponing his motion until the that the extension would embrace some excel­ possible reception of a very nun1erously lent land, and would greatly facilitate the signed petition from the north in connection operations of agriculturists in that quarter. with the land question. That petition had In. addition to that, he might perhaps be per­ not yet come to hand, but he (Mr. Dah·ymple) mitted to state, as the result of an application had just received a telegram from Rock­ to the honorable Minister for Lands and hampton which was the result of a large Works, that in the district he represented meeting of persons interested in the question, (the Northern Downs) a similar extension which he would read to the House :- would be made. That shewed that there was " Captain Smith, Leichhardt steamer, has the no desire on the pa1·t of the Government to petition; the signatures are from all quarters oppose any application to reserve land for from the gulf south, and comprise names equal agricultural purposes whenever it was found in weight and intelligence to any ever presented, 2z 378 .Agricultural Reserves. [ASSEMBLY.] Health Bill. representing an amount of capital haza1•ded in The original question was then put and pastoral pursuits larger than ever was risked at agreed to, and the Bill read a third tillle, and the beginning of any other colony. More passed. signatures keep coming in and will come by next mail.'' CROWN LANDS NON-COMPETITIVE SALES BILL. That was signed by William Rea, whose name was probably not unknown in the House. On the motion of the Secretary for Lands He was sorry that the petition had not arrived and Works, the order of the day for the in time, as he believed it would have thrown second reading of the Crown Lands Non­ considerable light upon the subject before the competitive Sales Bill was discharged from House ; and he should still hope that the the. paper. question might be postponed until it came to CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. hand. It was not his intention to take up The Customs Duties Bill passed its second the time of the House, by entering upon a reading, on the motion of the Colonial Trea­ discussion of the subject. Honorable mem­ surer. bers would all have an opportunity of express-. ing their opinions on the 'land policy of the country. He should be anxious to take part in the consideration of that question, but he did not think the present was the time to bring it forward. · At the same time, as he had on a former occasion expressed himself in favor of the first clause in the amendments proposed by the honorable member for Port Curtis, he felt bound to support it now, and therefore he was obliged to vote that the Bill be re-committed. If the intentions of the Government were bond fide,. they could not refuse to insert so small a clause, which, in fact, merely carried out what they had intended to do for the outside districts. It behoved. every honorable member to look at the ques­ tion in the same point of view as his constitu­ ents did. In the district which he represented, at present there were only 600 acres available for agricultural purposes, and, although he fully believed the Government would listen to any reasonable suggestions to increase that quantity, he thought it would be desirable that some such propositions as had been made by the honi;rable member for Port Curtis, should be introduced into the Bill. For those reasons, and because, as had been observed by an honorable member, some mishap might occur to prevent the honorable Secretary for Lands and Works from bringing in the Bill he proposed, and to give honorable members an opportunity of proving to their constitu­ ents that they had done the best they could for them, he should vote for the amendment. Mr. Douglas' amendment was then put, and the House divided, as follows·:- Ayes, 16. Noes, B. Mr. Herbert Mr. Pugh , Pring , Dalrymple , Macalister , Lilley , Bell , Stephens , Groom , Brookes , Watts , Forbes , Sandeman , Douglas } Dr. Challinm• , Walsh Tellers. Mr. R. Cribb , Royds , Haly , Coxen Miles , Wienholt , McLean} T , Taylor e11 ers. 1