COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE BUDGET HEARING
STATE CAPITOL HARRISBURG, PA
MAIN CAPITOL HOUSE CHAMBER
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2021 1:15 P.M.
PRESENTATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE
BEFORE: HONORABLE STAN SAYLOR, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE MATT BRADFORD, MINORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE ROSEMARY BROWN HONORABLE LYNDA SCHLEGEL-CULVER HONORABLE TORREN ECKER HONORABLE JONATHAN FRITZ HONORABLE KEITH GREINER HONORABLE DOYLE HEFFLEY HONORABLE JOHNATHAN HERSHEY HONORABLE LEE JAMES HONORABLE JOHN LAWRENCE HONORABLE ZACH MAKO HONORABLE NATALIE MIHALEK HONORABLE TIM O 'NEAL HONORABLE CLINT OWLETT HONORABLE CHRIS QUINN HONORABLE GREG ROTHMAN HONORABLE MEGHAN SCHROEDER HONORABLE JAMES STRUZZI HONORABLE JESSE TOPPER HONORABLE RYAN WARNER HONORABLE DAVE ZIMMERMAN HONORABLE AMEN BROWN HONORABLE DONNA BULLOCK HONORABLE MORGAN CEPHAS HONORABLE AUSTIN DAVIS HONORABLE ELIZABETH FIEDLER
Pennsylvania House of Representatives Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 2
1 b e f o r e : (cont .)
2 HONORABLE MARTY FLYNN HONORABLE PATTY KIM 3 HONORABLE EMILY KINKEAD HONORABLE STEPHE N KINSEY 4 HONORABLE PETER SCHWEYER HONORABLE JOE WE BSTER 5
6 NON-COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
7 HONORABLE ROB KAUFFMAN HONORABLE BRIAN SIMS 8
9 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT:
10 DAVID DONLEY MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 11 RITCHIE LaFAVER MAJORITY DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 12 ANN BALOGA MINORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 13 TARA TREES MINORITY CHIEF COUNSEL 14
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1 I N D E X
2 TESTIFIERS
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5 VERONICA DEG RA FFENREID ACTING SECRETARY, 6 DEPARTMENT OF STATE...... 4
7 SARI STEVENS EXECUTIVE DEPUTY DIRECTOR, 8 DEPARTMENT OF STATE...... #
9 JONATHAN MARKS DEPUTY SECRETARY, 10 ELECTIONS & COMMISSIONS DEPARTMENT OF STATE...... 28 11 KALONJI JOHNSON 12 COMMISSIONER, BUREAU OF PROFESSIONAL & OCCUPATIONAL AFFAIRS 13 Department OF STATE...... 45
14 KIM MATTIS DIRECTOR, 15 BUREAU OF FINANCE & OPERATIONS Department OF STATE...... 62 16 KRAIG KIEHL 17 DEPUTY SECRETARY, REGULATORY PROGRAMS 18 DEPARTMENT OF STATE...... 79
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21 SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY
22 A A j .
23 (See submitted written testimony and handouts online.) 24
25 4
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: All right.
4 First, I want to announce that we will not be here
5 tomorrow. We have moved the hearing for the
6 Department of Community and Economic Development
7 to Monday afternoon. And d d a p will be -- the Drug
8 and Alcohol Bureau -- will be moved possibly to, I
9 believe it's Wednesday or Thursday. There will be
10 a follow-up on that. So we will not be here
11 tomorrow. So tomorrow's hearings are canceled.
12 With that, we'll move forward to Madam
13 Secretary. And I'm going to apologize ahead of
14 time in pronouncing your last name, but I' m going
15 to try. We have acting Secretary Veronica
16 Degraffenreid. And Madam Secretary, you may
17 correct me, if you would. And also, if you would,
18 introduce your team that is here today to provide
19 testimony if needed and/or response to questions.
20 And then, once you've done that, I will swear all
21 of you in.
22 Madam Secretary.
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: If you guys can
24 hear me, I'm working on the audio. No audio right
25 now. 5
1 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: We can hear
2 you.
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: My audio is not
4 working. I can't hear.
5 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: You can hear
6 us now?
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I can hear you
8 now. Sorry about that.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: No problem.
10 No problem. Take -
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: All right.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: If you would,
13 introduce your individuals who are going to
14 participate with you today. And then I will swear
15 in all of you, and then we'll proceed to
16 questions.
17 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: All right. So
18 again, I apologize.
19 Chairman Saylor, Chairman Bradford, and
20 members of the House Appropriations Committee,
21 good afternoon. Thank you for your invitation to
22 appear before the Committee to discuss the
23 Department of State's 2021 and 2022 budget.
24 Joining me today are Executive Deputy
25 Secretary Sari Stevens, Deputy Secretary Kraig 6
1 Kiehl, Deputy Secretary Jonathan Marks, and our
2 Bureau of Finance and Operations Director Kim
3 Mattis, and finally, Commissioner Kilonji Johnson.
4 So before we get started, I think it
5 would be appropriate for me to introduce myself a
6 little bit.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Yes.
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Again, my name
9 is Veronica Degraffenreid. I'm acting Secretary
10 of the Department. And as many of you will be
11 aware, I was asked by Governor Wolf to serve in
12 the role beginning February 8th, just over a week
13 ago. I joined the Department a year ago, having
14 spent most of my prior professional career
15 administering elections in North Carolina.
16 For the past year, I have worked with the
17 county boards of elections in this State as they
18 sought to administer two elections in the face of,
19 you know, an unprecedented pandemic. And it's an
20 honor to be with you today. And I look forward to
21 serving with you as I serve in this new role.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you,
23 Madam Secretary.
24 I also want to announce to all of the
25 members that are here that a b c -27 will be granted 7
1 access to the floor for just a few minutes to take
2 photos.
3 At this point, Madam Secretary, if all of
4 your individuals would raise their right hand and
5 I will swear them in -- and you.
6 (Testifiers were sworn en masse.)
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you,
8 Madam Secretary.
9 And with that, we will move to our first
10 questioner, which is Representative Torren Ecker.
11 representative e c k e r : Thank you,
12 Mr. Chairman. Jumped the gun there.
13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome,
14 Madam Secretary.
15 I' m going to get right into something
16 that I think we need to address. And in reading
17 your testimony, I saw this was not mentioned in
18 there, so I'm going to bring it up right off the
19 bat. We all know that a constitutional amendment
20 that was passed out of both the House and the
21 Senate in two separate sessions was supposed to be
22 on the ballot -- was moving to be on the ballot
23 this spring for our sexual abuse victims. And
24 unfortunately, due to, really, a blunder of the
25 Department of State, that's not going to happen. 8
1 And I know there's been some discussion
2 as to, you know, there really hasn't been any
3 discussion as to why or how or -- and I know
4 there's investigations going on there, but to that
5 end, can you please explain to me just the process
6 in which these amendments are supposed to be
7 advertised and really what happened here?
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sure. Thank
9 you. Thank you for that.
10 So you know, first, you know, on
11 information and belief, you know, it was a mistake
12 involving human error. And you're right, there is
13 an investigation. And it's important for me and
14 for this Department for that investigation to
15 continue. And we look forward to, you know, the
16 results. We look forward to any recommendations
17 that are made from that process.
18 Also, please note that this Department,
19 we recognize the gap. And we have developed a new
20 procedure, a step-by-step guide with new controls,
21 including additional tracking and notifications to
22 ensure similar failings, you know, absolutely do
23 not -- do not occur in the future. And so you
24 know, with that, I would just say that I' m
25 focusing, you know, on continuing this agency's 9
1 mission and looking to the future. And in fact,
2 you know, with respect to evaluating all of our
3 processes -
4 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Well, Madam
5 Secretary, if you don't mind -
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- and
7 certainly, we want to do all of the things -
8 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: If you don't mind,
9 Madam Secretary, could you just walk through the
10 procedure in which a constitutional amendment is
11 advertised or how many people are involved?
12 Can you just highlight that or the new
13 process that you put in place?
14 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Sure. Give me
15 one second. Again, so our new process, our new
16 procedure is, you know, it's end to end. I mean,
17 from the beginning of when, like, a constitutional
18 amendment is first introduced, we wanted to
19 document all of the, you know, the things that
20 various owners would need to do in the process.
21 So there is a new process in place.
22 And if you give me one second, I will
23 just kind of highlight some of the things for you
24 specifically to that.
25 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Well, Madam 10
1 Secretary, while you're searching, I guess, I
2 mean, while there's an active investigation going
3 on, how are you able to update the process without
4 knowing what the blunder is?
5 I guess, is this something that's going
6 to change? So could you shed some light on that?
7 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So I mean, the
8 process, you know, is also set by statute, but
9 there's some internal controls and processes that
10 we put into place. So I don't see my revised
11 process right at the moment. I can certainly, you
12 know -- we can get back with you on that.
13 But to answer your specific question, you
14 know, we have looked at this process of what needs
15 to happen considering all of the various entities
16 that need to be involved. You know, from the time
17 that we receive it, it's tracked. As we get
18 ready to not only look at the ballot questions
19 itself, but sharing information or giving
20 additional insight with respect to the plain
21 language from the Office of the Attorney General,
22 working with our physical staff and our staff, you
23 know, who would be responsible for actually
24 working with publications to have it processed.
25 All of those things are in the new process. We're 11
1 tracking it and new controls so that this type of
2 issue would never -- absolutely never happen
3 agai n .
4 representative e c k e r : Sure. Obviously,
5 we're going to get into some discussion with
6 election integrity and security, and you talk a
7 lot about that in your testimony. My concern here
8 is that this was a pretty substantial mistake, you
9 know, integrity, security issue, as we're talking
10 about, really, our elections because this would
11 have been something that would have been voted on.
12 So I guess my concern here is that when
13 folks in our -- there are folks in our society
14 that are already questioning some of the -- the
15 security and integrity of our elections, you know,
16 this is definitely something that's another black
17 eye for those folks. So I guess my final question
18 to you is how do we -- how do we show those folks,
19 how do we show people that they can trust the
20 Department of State to carry out its job -- the
21 job that it' s statutorily required to do, as
22 simple as advertising the notice of an amendment?
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Absolutely.
24 And so again, I think the two things that I
25 mentioned, number one, the investigation. Let's 12
1 wait to see the results and the recommendations
2 that come, you know, from that. And this
3 Department absolutely will be committed to, you
4 know, following along with those recommendations.
5 And then, the second thing is the fact that we
6 have already taken a proactive stance and looked
7 at, you know, what our process should be going
8 forward in the future.
9 So that's what I'm committing to you
10 right now. I'm committing that, certainly to the
11 legislature, that it' s our mission and endeavor to
12 absolutely never let this happen again. And I'm
13 going to commit to the voters, as well.
14 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: My time is
15 expired. But before I go, Madam Secretary, if you
16 can please provide that report or the new process
17 or procedure to the Committee at your earliest
18 convenience, that would be great.
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
20 representative e c k e r : Thank you.
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Absolutely.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Just send that
23 over to me, and then we will share with the rest
24 of the Appropriations staff and Committee members.
25 Next up to ask questions is 13
1 Representative Marty Flynn. Since he's not here
2 currently, we will go to Representative Kinsey.
3 representative k i n s e y : Thank you,
4 Mr. Chairman. And welcome, Madam Secretary.
5 Madam Secretary, just a few seconds ago,
6 my colleague talked about procedures and a new
7 process. And he also talked about security,
8 integrity, which I understand and I agree, in
9 regards to concerns that Pennsylvanians have as it
10 relates to elections. One of the things I believe
11 is that when we look at leaders, such as yourself,
12 we also sometimes try to get a sense of who they
13 are, experience that they have, as well as the
14 backg round.
15 Madam Secretary, can you talk a little
16 bit about your background?
17 I understand you have the title of
18 interim Secretary. I understand that you were
19 not, a month ago, the Secretary of the Department,
20 but now you're serving as the interim. I think
21 that Pennsylvanians would like to know a little
22 bit about folks like yourself who are leading such
23 a Department, especially as we deal with the
24 concerns and issues that just recently came about.
25 Can you share a little bit about your 14
1 background and your experience, Madam Secretary?
2 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sure.
3 Absolutely. So again, I am from North Carolina.
4 I began my public servant career with the North
5 Carolina Department of Justice as a legal
6 assistant in the special litigation section
7 working on complex cases involving redistricting
8 and election law amongst others. Now, I have
9 worked in elections and administration since 2008
10 when I was hired at the North Carolina State Board
11 of Elections to help coordinate activities related
12 to the National Voter Registration Act or n v r a ,
13 commonly referred to as motor voter.
14 I was also the elections liaison to North
15 Carolina's 100 county boards of elections. Within
16 a few years, I became the business manager of the
17 State's voter registration and election management
18 system, a system comparable to the SURE system in
19 this State. And then in 2014, I was promoted and
20 my new role gave me the day-to-day responsibility
21 of directing statewide election operations.
22 I led a cross-functional team of program
23 managers, IT support staff, and administrative
24 staff. And my team, we were responsible for
25 developing the procedural and technical guidance 15
1 on voter registration processes, absentee,
2 prevention processes, voting systems management,
3 including certification of new systems, election
4 management, poll work, poll place. So a lot to do
5 with elections.
6 This experience led me to be hired as a
7 special advisor on election modernization last
8 year with the Department. And I had the pleasure
9 to work with the 67 counties in the Commonwealth
10 through the 2020 primary and general election as
11 we helped support counties with the implementation
12 of Acts, you know, 77 and Act 12 of 2020, as well
13 as how to conduct an election during a global
14 pandemic. So -- and I very much enjoyed working
15 with the counties.
16 So that's, you know, a little bit about
17 me, a strong background in elections
18 administration, strong background in helping to
19 implement laws, develop policies and, you know,
20 processes and procedures related to election
21 admi ni strati on.
22 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: And Madam
23 Secretary, I thank you for sharing that because I
24 think it's important that folks understand the
25 wealth of background that you -- the vast 16
1 background that you bring in this position in
2 serving in this position as Secretary.
3 Madam Secretary, I represent the city of
4 Philadelphia, and voter registration, as well as
5 education, has always been important as we deal
6 with an election every six months. I understand
7 that the Governor is proposing, under voter
8 registration and education, a decrease of $23,000
9 compared to the current budget. I would like to
10 think that we would invest more dollars in that,
11 but evidently, the Governor thinks differently,
12 which I understand. But maybe you could shed some
13 light as to why you think there's such a need for
14 a decrease with the voter registration, as well as
15 the education for that item.
16 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Well, I think
17 it would be important to note that our processes
18 going forward with respect to not only supporting
19 the counties, but you know, making sure that
20 citizens of this State, not only, you know, in
21 Philadelphia, but all over the State, have an
22 opportunity, absolutely, to register to vote, to
23 participate in the electoral process. So this
24 Department -- and my understanding, the
25 administration -- is absolutely committed to doing 17
1 the things that we need to do to modernize our
2 processes and continue to support counties. And
3 we will absolutely continue -- continue to do
4 that.
5 We will be focusing on in the next year
6 modernization efforts to the SURE System. Again,
7 the SURE system is the voter registration and
8 election management system. And I'm completely
9 passionate about that, about, you know, that
10 system and giving more opportunities, more
11 opportunities for counties to efficiently
12 administer, you know, the work that they do. So
13 that's our goal. That's our mission. And it will
14 continue to be our goal and mission in opening up
15 as much as we can, you know, the opportunities and
16 access to the electoral process.
17 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Thank you,
18 Madam Secretary.
19 I see my time is up; however, I would
20 like to follow up with your Department in regards
21 to ideas as it relates to voter registration as
22 well as voter education, but thank you.
23 And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Next
25 questioner is Representative John Lawrence. 18
1 REPRESENTATIVE LAWRENCE: Thank you,
2 Mr. Chairman.
3 And thank you, Madam Secretary, for
4 appearing before the Committee today. I
5 appreciate it.
6 Just to follow up on Representative
7 Ecker's questions a moment ago, the Office of
8 Inspector General is investigating how the error
9 occurred with regard to publishing the
10 constitutional amendment to protect victims of
11 childhood sexual abuse.
12 According to a February 10th, 2021
13 article by Spotlight PA, the Wolf Administration
14 has not committed to releasing the Inspector
15 General's report when it is complete.
16 Will you ask the Governor to release this
17 report, so the public can know what happened?
18 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : I believe that
19 the results from the investigation will be made
20 public. And again, we will take any
21 recommendations that come out of that process to
22 heart and, you know, look for ways, again, to
23 strengthen the work that we do. So again, it's my
24 understanding that the results of any
25 investigation will be made public. 19
1 REPRESENTATIVE LAWRENCE: So your
2 understanding is the Officer of Inspector
3 General's report will, in fact, be made public?
4 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : I believe that
5 the administration is committed to sharing the
6 results of the investigation with the public.
7 REPRESENTATIVE LAWRENCE: So I think it' s
8 important for the public to see that
9 investigation. And again, my understanding is
10 that it is the Governor's option. He can choose
11 whether or not to release that investigation or
12 whether to hide it away and simply say, well,
13 these were some of the recommendations made.
14 So again I' ll ask, will you ask the
15 Governor to release the Inspector General's report
16 so the public can know what happened?
17 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So again, it's
18 my understanding that the Governor's
19 administration will make the results of the
20 investigation public.
21 REPRESENTATIVE LAWRENCE: So I don't
22 think that's exactly an answer. And I appreciate
23 that you're in a difficult spot. I guess what I
24 would say is that the Governor's -- and I realize
25 you don't speak for the Governor, but I will say 20
1 the Governor's failure to commit to release that
2 report in its entirety, I think, raises some
3 questions about what the administration
4 anticipates might be in the report.
5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
8 Krueger.
9 We'll move on to Representative Fiedler.
10 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: Thank you,
11 Mr. Chair. Thank you for joining us today.
12 I personally watched the events of
13 January 6th, truly appalled in horror. My
14 3-year-old was standing -
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Madam -
16 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: Oh -
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: -- we are not
18 going to reiterate those kinds of things. This is
19 on a budget hearing. What happened in D.C. has
20 nothing to do with this budget hearing.
21 So I will just remind members, stay on
22 budget issues that have to do with the Secretary's
23 budget.
24 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: With all due
25 -- and Chairman -- 21
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: I made my
2 ruling.
3 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: -- I
4 appreciate your position -
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: I have made my
6 ruling.
7 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: -- but let
8 me have my say, as well.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: And I' m not
10 changing the ruling. I warned you ahead of time I
11 was not going to get into election results -
12 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Chairman -
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: -- or anything
14 that happened in Washington.
15 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Chairman -
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: So we are not
17 going to go that direction, period.
18 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Chairman, if
19 I can, all I would say is there's a legitimate
20 issue that the Department of State runs elections.
21 We should not relitigate this election. Too many
22 people have already questioned the integrity of
23 our elections to the great detriment of our
24 democracy. Having said that, if there are
25 legitimate questions and oversight that needs to 22
1 be done by this Committee on budget issues,
2 including talking prospectively about -
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: That question
4 had nothing to do with -
5 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Please,
6 Chairman -
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: -- this
8 budget. My ruling is final.
9 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Chairman -
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: If you're not
11 going to abide by my rules, I will not recognize
12 members who are going that direction, and I will
13 have their mikes turned off. I have warned you I
14 will not tolerate rebating. There's been enough
15 of that in the public purview. We don't need to
16 do it in the Appropriations Committee.
17 If you want to have a press conference on
18 the Capitol steps to do whatever you want to do,
19 that's fine. I made the similar ruling back years
20 ago when I told people they couldn't criticize the
21 Governor or the President.
22 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Okay.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: And I' m going
24 to continue that kind of ruling here. This is
25 about the budget process and only the budget 23
1 p roce ss.
2 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Okay.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Anything that
4 the S ecretary has in her purview to control as far
5 as th e budget is concerned, those questions are
6 legit
7 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD:
8 Respe ctfully, Chairman, what budget issue has
9 about -- a question about a constitutional
10 amend ment from the last session? And
11 respe ctfully, Chairman, we can both raise -
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Mr. Bradford -
13 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: -- we can
14 l owe r the temperature on this.
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: You know, in
16 the b udget, there is an advertising for
17 const itutional amendments. It's right in the
18 budge t line item if you read the budget.
19 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: We use -
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: So I am
21 telli ng you -
22 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: -- State
23 money for chicken fingers -
24 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: -- I am done.
25 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: -- at a 24
1 Policy Committee about an insurrection that some
2 members actually helped plan.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Matt, if you
4 want to reiterate -
5 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: So with all
6 due respect, we can go back at each other. What
7 we can do, though, is have a budget hearing. I've
8 said repeatedly, let's lower the temperature.
9 Let's have a good-natured discussion about this.
10 Listen, State funds are spent on election, too,
11 Chai rman.
12 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: I am not going
13 to allow the questions. It's a final ruling. If
14 the lady wants to continue on a budget question,
15 she may. Otherwise, I'm sorry, I will have your
16 mike turned off. So lady Representative -
17 m i n o r i t y c h a i r m a n Br a d f o r d : Democracy.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: -- what do you
19 choose to do?
20 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: Thank you,
21 Mr. Chairman. The lady would like to continue on
22 a very budget-centered question, please.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you.
24 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: Thank you.
25 If I could direct this question -- I 25
1 believe it's most appropriate to Deputy Secretary
2 Marks. Obviously, around this election, there
3 were a lot of complications, a lot of theories,
4 and other things that contributed to the
5 complexity of administering an election. You've
6 been at the Department working in elections for
7 well over a decade.
8 Could you tell us, from a budgetary
9 perspective, and in terms of ensuring we have a
10 fair election, would you say that this election
11 was particularly difficult or problematic in terms
12 of the ones you've been involved in?
13 And how would you say it compares to
14 other elections?
15 Perhaps they've hung up.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Madam
17 Secretary, are you still there?
18 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm still here.
19 I believe that Deputy Secretary Marks was trying
20 to speak. I'm not sure if you guys can hear him.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I can't hear
23 him.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: If they would
25 unmute. Right now I believe they may be muted. 26
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I would ask
2 that -- Deputy Secretary Marks is working on his
3 audio. I know -- if you want to repeat the
4 question again, I think that would be helpful.
5 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: I will try my
6 best. Thank you.
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sure.
8 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: During your time
9 at the Department -- as I was addressing Secretary
10 Marks, I believe he's been -- the Secretary has
11 been there for about 10 years -- but if you could
12 talk about the complications related to ensuring
13 that we have a fair and smoothly run election and
14 whether the one that we just had was particularly
15 complicated, difficult, or problematic -- and
16 ensuring that your responses, of course, as we are
17 in budget hearings, focus on budget and on the
18 additional complications of running elections
19 given all of the changes that we have had
20 recently.
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sure.
22 Absolutely. So you know, without a doubt, there
23 were, you know, a number of challenges for the
24 county boards of elections to administer, you
25 know, conduct the election, you know, last year, 27
1 both in the primary and certainly for the general
2 election. And they're related to, like, number
3 one, implementation of new laws with Act 77 with,
4 you know, the addition of mail-in voting and the
5 budgetary considerations that went along with
6 that, new voting systems.
7 This -- your body, right, also called for
8 counties to be able to get new modern voting
9 systems that would allow a verifiable paper ballot
10 trail. And thank you for the, you know, $90
11 million, I believe, that that was used last year
12 for the counties. And you know, the pandemic also
13 was something that also was unexpected,
14 unprecedented, so it did call on the need of, you
15 know, certainly for the counties as well as for
16 this Department, to make sure that we were poised
17 and ready to help not only support counties, but
18 also support the voters of this, you know, of this
19 State .
20 And so we were, you know, able to utilize
21 the Federal c a res Act funding for that purpose, as
22 we absolutely supported counties, poll workers,
23 and voters when we purchased and provided for, you
24 know, various types of p p e , both for the primary
25 and also for the, you know, for the general 28
1 election. We had enough hand sanitizer, you know,
2 really, to fill up a full-size pool, just to make
3 sure that we were able to keep people safe. So
4 yeah, those are some of the budgetary, you know,
5 things or impacts from last year. I believe
6 Deputy Secretary Marks is cued up now and -
7 DEPUTY SECRETARY MARKS: Can you hear me?
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes.
9 d e p u t y s e c r e t a r y m a r k s : You can hear me
10 now okay?
11 REPRESENTATIVE FIEDLER: We can.
12 DEPUTY SECRETARY MARKS: I apologize. I
13 don't know exactly what happened there. I -
14 again, I apologize. I do want to answer the
15 Representative's initial question.
16 I have been here a long time, longer than
17 I care to admit sometimes, and I've seen a lot.
18 And every election is unique; every election
19 presents its own unique challenges. I've seen
20 natural disasters that have occurred within days
21 before an election. I've seen, you know, legal
22 challenges that have changed the status quo just
23 days -- or sometimes the day before -- an
24 election. This one, though, had both of those
25 things and a few other things added into it, you 29
1 know, historic election reform. However, I think
2 the counties performed -- I don't even think
3 admirably is the best word for it. I think the
4 counties did a fantastic job under very difficult
5 ci rcumstances.
6 I' m proud of the job our staff did
7 working with counties long hours into the night.
8 I'm proud of, you know, the volunteers and
9 additional staff that we brought on to answer the
10 123,000 election-related calls just in a period of
11 about seven months between April and November. So
12 I think -- I think the election, in spite of all
13 of the challenges, was successful, free, and
14 secure. And you know, I look forward to any
15 discussions we can have collaboratively to talk
16 about what we can do to ease the burden on county
17 election officials.
18 REPRESENTATIVE FIELDLER: Thank you so
19 much.
20 Mr. Chair, if I may ask just one very
21 brief follow-up and reclaim my 60 seconds?
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Sure.
23 REPRESENTATIVE FIELDLER: Thank you very
24 much.
25 Obviously, due to the legislation that we 30
1 passed, we made it much easier for people to vote
2 by mail. I know that my office received quite a
3 few questions, as did other Representatives, about
4 that process.
5 Do you believe that the State should
6 provide for, for example, pre-paid postage moving
7 forward to ensure that that is something that is
8 available to all residents and it runs more
9 smoothly?
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So this, you
11 know, Department -- I' m sorry, Deputy Secretary
12 Marks. I will say it. And if you want to add to
13 that, that we were -- like I myself personally
14 work with -- one of my jobs last year was to work
15 with the counties, their vendors, and USPS, and
16 you know, utilizing that funding that I mentioned
17 from the CARES Act to make sure that voters had
18 the ability to participate, you know, in the
19 process and that they could, you know, send their
20 ballot in and did not have to worry about going to
21 the post office, right, to, you know, get a stamp,
22 and that they could just put their ballot, return
23 it directly in the mail, you know, with pre-paid
24 postage.
25 So I would say that, you know, this 31
1 Department, you know, is absolutely open to
2 working with the legislators on an initiative like
3 that.
4 REPRESENTATIVE FIELDLER: Thank you.
5 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Deputy
6 Secretary Marks.
7 DEPUTY SECRETARY MARKS: I don't have
8 anything to add, Madam Secretary. I think you
9 covered it.
10 REPRESENTATIVE FIELDLER: Thank you.
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Our next
13 questioner is Representative Struzzi.
14 representative s t r u z z i : Thank you,
15 Mr. Chairman. And good afternoon, Madam
16 Secretary.
17 My questions pertain to professional
18 licensing and the significant delays that we've
19 seen not only during the pandemic, but prior to
20 the pandemic, in issuing those licenses. I'll
21 give you a few specific examples and really
22 demonstrate the depth of my concern.
23 One example, really, I think is
24 unacceptable. Our Indiana County Technology
25 Center -- first of all, I represent the 62nd 32
1 Legislative District, Indiana County. So nice to
2 meet you.
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Nice to meet
4 you.
5 representative s t r u z z i : But the Indiana
6 County Technology Center was seeking to open a
7 satellite program at the Clarion County Career
8 Center for licensed professional nurses.
9 Obviously, during the pandemic, the need for
10 additional nurses was clearly highlighted. They
11 submitted that application in August of last year,
12 and here we are seven months later and they still
13 have not received any approval to open that
14 satellite nursing program.
15 So that is one example, I think, of many.
16 And our offices have been inundated really with
17 requests from students, from teachers at tech
18 schools seeking to expedite or learn why the
19 delays are occurring in professional licensing.
20 And I think it really compounds the problem when
21 we're hearing from students left and right saying,
22 you know what, I'm just going to go to a different
23 State where they can get my license to me so I can
24 get to work.
25 So the question is, you know, what is 33
1 your office doing to expedite these processes, fix
2 these processes long term and assure students that
3 when they graduate from college, that they're
4 going to get their license on time so they can get
5 to work?
6 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Yes. Thank you
7 for the opportunity to talk about that. So the
8 Department, this Department, remains firmly
9 committed, you know, to rooting out unacceptable
10 delays, right, to applicants, licensees, you know,
11 for the public. It is our duty and our mission to
12 protect the safety and promote the health, you
13 know, of the citizens in this State.
14 So one of the things that we did is that
15 we developed licensing navigators. They were
16 launched in late 2019, and we believe that it
17 helped close the information gap for licensees and
18 the public at large by emphasizing the best
19 practices for the applicants and licensees. I'm
20 going to, you know, talk about some very, you
21 know, things that we have done. And then, I will
22 also ask Commissioner Johnson to speak to you.
23 Now, certainly in 2020, the rollout was
24 halted due to the 2020, you know, pandemic. And
25 we had to shift our resources to, you know, 34
1 pandemic relief efforts. However, the navigator
2 resumed in the fall of last year and it continues
3 through this year. We understand that while -
4 you know, user error confusion continues to be the
5 most visible and solvable solution to improving
6 outcomes in application processing. So we're
7 committed to doing extensive application
8 maintenance and development. And those things,
9 you know, will continue so we can stabilize and
10 improve, you know, some functionality.
11 One of the specific things that we have
12 looked at is clarification, on just one thing,
13 like criminal records, history check. That's
14 something that our Department had looked at, that
15 we were able to see if we could narrow the window
16 of time that it would take for applicants to go
17 through that process. And again, we just want to
18 make sure that, you know, we understand that it' s
19 important for applicants and licensees to be fully
20 aware of, like, what the full process is. It
21 takes seven to eight weeks.
22 That is based on our analysis. It's
23 based on our research of comparing ourselves with
24 other States. And so I think that the three
25 phases of the licensing navigation, you know, will 35
1 be illustrative, you know, why we believe that
2 licensees need to understand or be better
3 educated, something that we're committed to doing
4 to fully understand, like, how long it takes and
5 also to understand the requirements that also go
6 along with becoming licensed and remaining
7 licensed, so that when their applications are
8 submitted, that they are, you know, as complete as
9 they can possibly be. So I wanted to share that
10 with you, but I also want Commissioner Johnson
11 also to absolutely speak on this because it' s
12 something that he's very committed to.
13 representative s t r u z z i : We're almost
14 out of time. That's fine.
15 Just one other point I want to emphasize.
16 During the pandemic, you know, our offices are
17 often the last resort for constituents to call on
18 these issues, and we were told to stop calling the
19 Department of State on licensing issues during the
20 pandemic. So that to me is also unacceptable, and
21 I would urge you to, you know, give some special
22 consideration to the issue with the Tech Center
23 trying to open the nursing program. But
24 unfortunately, I think we're out of time for my
25 questions, so thank you. 36
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
2 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: Representative
3 Austin Davis.
4 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS: Thank you,
5 Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Madam Secretary, for
6 being here today.
7 You know, I just have a question about,
8 you know, the process and our -- you know, 2020
9 was a very -- it was a completely different
10 election from one that we've had in the past. And
11 many of us, at least in our caucus, were
12 supportive of the idea of pre-canvassing. And I
13 just wanted to hear your perspective on
14 pre-canvassing and how you thought it might
15 benefit the electoral process moving forward,
16 since I think we have over two million
17 Pennsylvanians who have signed up annually for
18 mail-in ballots.
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah,
20 absolutely. So pre-canvassing, I'm going to go
21 back to a little bit of, from my experience in
22 North Carolina, because I think that would be
23 illustrative and also allow you to understand why
24 I believe -- I strongly believe -- that
25 pre-canvassing would be very helpful to the 37
1 integrity and also allow for more confidence, you
2 know, in the process for the public.
3 In North Carolina, the County boards of
4 elections can start -- they have these absentee
5 board meetings. So they meet starting three weeks
6 prior to the date of the election. And what
7 they're doing, they're looking at those returned
8 ballots, the application, on the outside. They're
9 finding that the voter has met the requirements of
10 the law. And if they have, the Board will then
11 make the determination that they can approve the
12 application, so that the ballot can then be
13 opened. The ballot is removed from -- and it's
14 just one envelope in North Carolina.
15 So the ballot is removed from the
16 envelope, flattened, and is part of a public board
17 meeting, a public process. So that ballot is
18 removed from the envelope, and the community can
19 take preparatory steps to start scanning the
20 ballots into the voting equipment. And they can,
21 you know, start doing that three weeks before the
22 election, and even on the day before. So there's
23 a fourth meeting on the day before Election Day.
24 So they are essentially pre-canvassing all of the
25 ballots that have been returned through the Monday 38
1 prior to the date of the election.
2 And then, on Election Day in, you know,
3 my former state, the county boards can meet at
4 5:00 p.m. to, at that point, do a tally to count
5 the votes. So they do that as part of a public
6 process. And so when the polls close on election
7 night in my former state, the first election
8 results that start coming through after the polls
9 close, because of those preparatory steps, are the
10 absentee ballots in that State. And that includes
11 both mail-in ballots and in-person -- in-person
12 absentee, early voting that it may be referred to
13 as.
14 And so those results come in even before
15 the Election Day precincts, so that when, you
16 know, as you get later in the evening, as soon as
17 the last county, the last precincts, you know -
18 and counties are recording the voters in North
19 Carolina -- you have a good idea of, like, what
20 the results are. Now, it's unofficial obviously
21 because you have to go through the canvassing
22 process, but I wanted to explain that because it' s
23 something, a longstanding practice, not just in
24 North Carolina, other states, as well, that allows
25 their county officials to go through those 39
1 preparatory steps, so that when it's time to start
2 reporting results on election evening, you have a
3 full, comprehensive picture whenever that -
4 whenever the day ends, right, before the next day
5 begins, you know, whether it's 11:00 or midnight
6 or 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. It just depends.
7 Voters then have, you know, some -- and candidates
8 also have -- some idea of, like, where they stand
9 and the outcome -- again still unofficial.
10 representative DAVIS: Thank you.
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I wanted to
12 mention all of that because I believe it' s
13 important, you know, for Pennsylvania to really
14 think about, you know, where they want to be
15 positioned, you know, in elections to come, giving
16 counties who work so hard -- and Jonathan
17 mentioned, you know, it' s not an admirable job -
18 it' s unbelievable what they were able to
19 accomplish last year.
20 But it was, you know, difficult to start
21 pre-canvassing ballots on election morning. And
22 when they are engaged in Election Day operations,
23 you never know what's going to come up. So just
24 giving more time for the process, for the counties
25 to absolutely have a methodical, secure, 40
1 transparent in the sense that, you know, it's open
2 to the public, and certainly absolutely wait until
3 the close of polls for anything to become public.
4 representative DAVIS: Thank you. Thank
5 you.
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I think that is
7 something that we should probably want to consider
8 and that I think this Department would support.
9 representative DAVIS: Thank you. Thank
10 you, Madam Secretary.
11 And just as I conclude, one final
12 question, do you think Pennsylvania had a fair and
13 secure election in 2020?
14 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: We're going to
15 move on.
16 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I do.
17 representative DAVIS: Thank you.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Madam
19 Secretary, that is not a question that's
20 appropriate, I think, at this point as far as for
21 a budget hearing.
22 Next, we'll go to Representative Brown.
23 representative R. b r o w n : Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 Thank you, Madam Secretary. And we 41
1 know -- I know you have your hands full. And I
2 firmly believe that there are going to be a
3 tremendous amount of expectations on the
4 Department of State over these next several years.
5 So it is nice to see you virtually. Hopefully
6 we'll get to see you in person soon, but I'm going
7 to follow up a little bit with Representative
8 Struzzi and the professional licensing.
9 I' m also a member of the Professional
10 Licensure Committee here on the House -- in the
11 House. But you talked a little bit about
12 remaining licensed, you know, getting people
13 licensed, the importance of that. And you
14 mentioned a system that you put in place, put in
15 place by the Department of State, in the fall of
16 2019 through the fall of this past 2020, that is
17 supposed to help make that more efficient and
18 really help the licensing for occupations and for
19 businesses.
20 And I've got to tell you, this -
21 there's been several instances over this last
22 year, and because of what we've gone through, it's
23 been even more frustrating because it' s been a
24 stressful year for businesses and people with
25 employment. But just for instance, I had one 42
1 salon that was for months calling the Department
2 of State, trying to get through because they had
3 specific information they needed and could not get
4 through. They were on hold. And this is a small
5 business that was shut down and then reopened with
6 very strong restrictions. And so they really
7 don't have time to sit on the phone on hold.
8 So my question, really, to you is -
9 again, there's a lot of need for improvement in
10 this section -- can you give a little bit more
11 detail about working with the boards and their
12 commissions on exactly how we're improving that,
13 even though you talked a little bit about that
14 with Representative Struzzi?
15 But also, the concern that I looked
16 through the budget and some of what is requested,
17 the professional and occupational affairs lines,
18 the State boards line, all of these, there's
19 reductions in those asks. So my concern is always
20 with our budget that we're putting money to things
21 that help and that promote opportunities and
22 business and jobs. We want to see the money spent
23 well. And if it's needed in a certain area, we
24 need to know that.
25 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah. Thank 43
1 you. Yep. Thank you for that.
2 So I know that I did not give
3 Commissioner Johnson time, so let me just quickly
4 say that the efforts to restructure certainly
5 began in 2019. They were modified to support, you
6 know, teleworking, beginning in March 2020. And
7 you know, the pals System was enabled, you know,
8 to continue offering -- to continue the operations
9 even with converting to remote working in 2020.
10 So you should know that additional PALS
11 support personnel, right, were hired in this
12 year -- yeah, January of this year -- to bolster
13 general and technical support. Because I think
14 that's what your question is going to, what are we
15 doing to offer more customer support. And so we
16 have hired additional personnel this year. So you
17 know, while licensing-related services are, you
18 know, we know that they're driven -- they're
19 customer-driven. And we want to make sure that we
20 can continue to support, you know, and be able to
21 answer calls or e-mails -
22 REPRESENTATIVE R. BROWN: Okay.
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- and just,
24 you know, overall improve the user experience.
25 That -- that absolutely continues to be our 44
1 pri ori ty.
2 So Commissioner Johnson, do you want to
3 offer any additional insight on the things that
4 your Bureau is doing to absolutely address, you
5 know, those concerns?
6 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you,
7 Secretary.
8 Just to reiterate, everything that you
9 said is correct. We've striven over the past year
10 to really improve the quality of the communication
11 between the licensees and the Department. Also,
12 it should be noted that in the midst of that
13 pandemic, we were struggling with vacancies in the
14 Department that we were -- that we were rushing to
15 fill in order to meet the demands and obviously to
16 assuage a lot of the concerns within the regulated
17 communi ties.
18 We have -- we've, as you said, we've
19 brought on additional personnel. We're training
20 those personnel, and we are -- we're committed to
21 finding technological solutions that will also
22 improve the level of communication. One of those
23 is getting more of our licensees to really -
24 directing them more to the self-help and the
25 e-mail-type support systems that we have in place, 45
1 helping them understand that using e-mail as
2 opposed to phones is as viable a source of
3 communication as the other solution with regard to
4 getting the technical and -
5 representative R. b r o w n : Thank you.
6 commissioner JOHNSON: -- policy support.
7 REPRESENTATIVE R. BROWN: Yeah,
8 absolutely. I know that that's a big question for
9 a short period of time, but even if we go to -- I
10 just really, really am requesting that the
11 Department of State, if we move towards an e-mail
12 system, one of the most important things is that
13 people hear a response. So whether it's a phone
14 or whether it' s an e-mail, there needs to be a
15 response. You know, there really shouldn't be a
16 situation where we get a phone call, so -
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:
18 Representative, I appreciate it.
19 REPRESENTATIVE R. BROWN: Thank you,
20 Mr. Chairman.
21 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: Your time has
22 expi red.
23 representative R. b r o w n : He's cutting me
24 off. Thank you.
25 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you. 46
1 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: Representative
2 Patty Kim.
3 representative KIM: Thank you. Thank
4 you, Mr. Chai rman.
5 Madam Secretary, thank you for being here
6 with us today. I also want to commend your work
7 with modernizing the county elections offices
8 during the primary. I know that was a monumental
9 task. My question is, I notice that you might
10 have worked on the North Carolina Same-Day Voter
11 Registration Program. I know that our county
12 election offices need time to rest and relax, but
13 in the future -- in the near future hopefully -
14 to make it easier for people to register to vote
15 same day, do you see Pennsylvania able to do that,
16 as well, Secretary?
17 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So the
18 Department, you know, would be supportive of, you
19 know, continuing efforts with respect to same day
20 -- same-day registration. When I began, you know,
21 my career in elections in North Carolina in 2000
22 -- 2008, it was the primary election in 2008,
23 where the Democratic, you know, nominee had not
24 yet been worked out. So it was pretty -- an
25 intense time during that time period. 47
1 And 2008 was the first election, general
2 election. Same-day registration had been rolled
3 out in 2007 during that State's municipal election
4 year, but I mean, it really was fully implemented
5 during the early voting period in 2008. And so
6 what I can say about it is that when you have -
7 you know, again, our focus absolutely in terms of
8 election administration, you know, any election
9 administrator will tell you that there's a dual
10 responsibility. The responsibility is to ensure
11 that there's opportunity, access that people can
12 participate in the process, as well as, you know,
13 the other prongs that, you know, making sure that
14 people who are not, you know, not qualified or
15 eligible do not, you know, cast a ballot that
16 should not be counted.
17 So that's a responsibility that's shared
18 nationwide, you know, if you speak to a career
19 elections administrator. So I would say, what do
20 the same-day registration processes do? Not only
21 did it open, you know, opportunities for people,
22 you know, to participate in the process, but it
23 also provided an opportunity that, for instance,
24 if they had, you know, somehow submitted an
25 application and it had not yet been processed, you 48
1 know, for whatever reason, because of same-day
2 registration, it prevented the -- it kind of
3 switched out some administrative duties for -- on
4 behalf of the counties that they could go ahead
5 and, you know, process the application, allowing
6 the person to vote a regular ballot, as opposed
7 to, you know, steering them through the back-end
8 provisional process, which you know, still good
9 because it's fail-safe voting.
10 But just having that up front
11 administrative process allowed the counties in my
12 former state to be able to go ahead and allow
13 people who were otherwise qualified and eligible,
14 should have been eligible, to participate and vote
15 in the process.
16 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Thank you for your
17 answe r.
18 Thank you, Chairman.
19 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: Representative
20 Clint Owlett.
21 representative o w l e t t : Thank you,
22 Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Secretary, for
23 joining us here today.
24 Budget questions here revolving around
25 non-profit and private money that's been invested 49
1 in private elections here in 2020. I'm sure
2 you're familiar with the Center for Technology and
3 Civic Life Grants here in the State. There were
4 21 counties that received this funding, including
5 the Department of State. Nationally, lots of
6 money has been raised by that, even the
7 Zuckerberg -- $400 million has been donated to
8 this. This is outside money that is coming into
9 states to help with elections.
10 It's my understanding that these are
11 non-profits and had very specific details in
12 regards to how this money must be spent, and they
13 require some sort of contracts; is that true?
14 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Some type of
15 contract?
16 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: Yeah.
17 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So let me just
18 -- let's talk about those fundings. The funding
19 -- again, global pandemic. And so, you know, with
20 new laws, new voting systems, just, you know, kind
21 of a trifecta of things that were happening with
22 counties last year. And so, what those funds were
23 able to do is to provide counties with the ability
24 to, you know, respond to the pandemic. And they
25 were -- like they were losing poll workers, for 50
1 example, right. They needed to bring on
2 additional people. Because if you begin to think
3 about poll workers and their age, many of them,
4 you know, were saying, no, I can't work in this
5 election. It's just not safe. My -
6 representative o w l e t t : Yeah. Just real
7 quick -
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- health would
9 be at risk.
10 representative o w l e t t : I mean, I would
11 love to talk about specifics of what they were
12 spent on because these contracts -- are they
13 available?
14 Like, the Department of State received
15 money from these organizations, as well. Are
16 those contracts public documents, and would they
17 verify what the money was spent on?
18 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Well, I can
19 absolutely share with you what the money was spent
20 on. And then, I'm going to ask our Director of
21 Finance and Operations to speak to how those, you
22 know -- I believe they were grants.
23 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: Right.
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So that's why
25 I' m pausing a little bit, you know, on the 51
1 contract. But what were they spent on, they were
2 spent on PPE. They were spent on getting
3 additional resources for counties. And again, I
4 should, you know -- let's be clear that this
5 funding was available to all counties. Certainly,
6 the Department did take advantage of the
7 opportunity, so that we can provide -
8 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: Did the
9 Department -
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- more grants,
11 too, that were available to counties.
12 representative o w l e t t : How much did the
13 Department of State receive?
14 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. So
15 Director Mattis, let me look at -- if you can
16 point me to the right page -
17 representative o w l e t t : Well, yeah.
18 While you're looking that up, because I don't have
19 much time -
20 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: We can also
21 share this information with you, as well. I mean,
22 it' s itemized, like the pay advice, direct mail,
23 other types of communication, the support staff
24 that answer phone calls here at the Department
25 when the phones were very much ringing off the 52
1 hook. All of that is itemized in terms of, I
2 mean, the expenditure at the State Department.
3 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: So I want to just
4 ask more of a fundamental question. And if you
5 could, please, provide these contracts to the
6 Committee from all 21 counties. We would like to
7 be able to see how this money was spent. This was
8 private money coming into Pennsylvania elections.
9 I think that's important for us as a Committee to
10 be looking at.
11 But fundamentally, do you believe that
12 this type of private money, and even in the form
13 of grants, is permissible under the Election Code
14 here in Pennsylvania?
15 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So it was
16 permissible. And before even moneys were
17 accepted, it went through a vetting process to
18 make sure that there was no conflict. And the
19 simple answer is that anyone can provide money
20 directly to -- to the State, but it does go
21 through, you know, a vetting process and -
22 representative o w l e t t : So these grants
23 come to the State. They go through a vetting
24 process. Help me understand who -- who would not
25 be allowed to -- what non-profits would not be 53
1 allowed to invest -- provide grants for
2 Pennsylvania elections.
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So that's
4 something that I would need to, you know, follow
5 back up on, like, who would not be permitted. But
6 I also want to clarify that we can provide the
7 grant information for the Department of State,
8 anything for the counties.
9 I think you mentioned the 21 counties.
10 We don't have that. That would come directly, you
11 know, from them. They -- the counties decided if
12 they wanted to apply themselves for those, you
13 know, for those grants, but yeah, we respect -
14 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: Can you -
15 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: We would have
16 that.
17 representative o w l e t t : Could they have
18 used them for equipment purchases?
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: The counties?
20 REPRESENTATIVE OWLETT: Yeah.
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes. And I
22 believe that they did.
23 REPRESENTATIVE o w l e t t : And my last
24 question is, would all -- the equipment that they
25 purchased, was that certified by the Department of 54
1 State prior to being used?
2 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So are you -
3 so just -- let's make sure we understand what
4 equipment is. We're not talking about voting
5 systems, necessarily, here. We're, you know,
6 talking about, like, scanners and, you know,
7 desktop printers and things that counties would
8 need with respect to elections administration, you
9 know, their duties to participate in additional
10 efforts for, like, pre-canvassing and the mail
11 ballot sorters or the -
12 representative o w l e t t : So are scanners
13 certified by the Department of State or not?
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:
15 Representative, we have to cut you off. Your time
16 has expi red .
17 representative o w l e t t : I appreciate it.
18 And I just, Mr. Chairman, if I may, please, just
19 -- private money coming in for our elections is
20 problematic. You know, I could see where this is
21 a dangerous precedent to be setting. And I think
22 we all need to press pause on that and consider
23 what this really means here in the Commonwealth.
24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Madam 55
1 Secretary, if you would send those contracts over
2 and what counties received the grants and how they
3 spent those dollars, that is important for the
4 budget process. I'm not suspicious at all, but I
5 think it' s important for members to have that
6 information. And I will share that with Chairman
7 Bradford and his members and our members and
8 staff, as well. Appreciate your cooperation in
9 that.
10 And with that, we will move to
11 Representative Webster.
12 REPRESENTATIVE WEBSTER: Thank you,
13 Chai rman.
14 Madam Secretary, I'm going to ask a
15 question. It's more about information
16 technologies and this budget. You know, we've
17 heard a little bit today, and I' ve heard
18 previously that some users are a little frustrated
19 with SURE. So we talked a little bit earlier, so
20 this might be connected around pals and how
21 customers interact with that system. I don't use
22 either one of those, but I have engaged with the
23 campaign finance software that the Department
24 makes available online.
25 So I' m sitting here thinking, are these 56
1 proprietary systems, are they custom developed,
2 are they homegrown, and you know, what do we need
3 to do -- does the Department have a plan to enter
4 the 21st century in terms of the way that we use
5 information technology to support your customers?
6 And is there anything in this budget in that
7 regard?
8 Thank you.
9 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: All right.
10 Yeah, thank you for that question. I will
11 absolutely respond to that. I just want to
12 provide some clarification to the previous
13 question and the use of non-federal grants. So
14 it' s my understanding that we procured, you know,
15 some, you know, PPE and additional equipment for
16 counties. So I just wanted to provide that
17 clari fi cati on.
18 All right. So as to the use of
19 information technology and how we use that to best
20 modernize and make our processes more efficient,
21 absolutely, I'm a big fan. And as part of my
22 career, as I explained what I did in my former
23 position, and that is looking at ways to utilize
24 leveraged technology to improve the process. So
25 the modernization efforts with the SURE system -- 57
1 and I can go into, you know, details about that -
2 also includes improvements to the campaign finance
3 and lobbying disclosure system, as well. Also, on
4 our Bureau of Corporations and Charities, we are
5 starting a modernization effort with the --
6 PennFile to also improve upon that process, too.
7 And of course, you know, we will continue efforts
8 to improve the technology for p a l s .
9 So let's talk about the SURE System. The
10 SURE System has reached its end of life. It is
11 old. It needs to be replaced, and we are
12 absolutely doing that right now. Development
13 started -- or development efforts started -
14 January of this year and will continue for about a
15 year. So this time next year, we will be working
16 with the counties to roll out a new SURE system.
17 One of the -- and I won' t go into a lot
18 of details because I know time is of the essence,
19 but one of the, you know, really important things
20 that the new SURE system will be able to do is to
21 leverage a GIS technology. We will have
22 Geo-enabled elections, and that's the use of like
23 address points and civic boundaries and where
24 addresses fit within, you know, the polygon of a
25 geographic area. I have experience in that in 58
1 North Carolina, as we used GIS technology for
2 auditing the assignment of districts, you know, to
3 voter addresses. That's going to be absolutely
4 revolutionary to the work that counties do. It
5 will simplify their efforts.
6 Of course, we're going to be rolling into
7 legislative redistricting, right, later this year
8 or into early next year. And so the new system,
9 with respect to information technology, will also
10 leverage GIS technology in those -- in those
11 efforts.
12 representative W e b s t e r : I was going to
13 make the connection to those -- to the
14 redistricting. I think it's exciting, and I
15 highly encourage the Department to be in that
16 modern age and phase. I don't think we provide
17 good government services without the resources to
18 do that.
19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
21 m a j o r i t y c h a i r m a n SAYLOR: Representative
22 Culver.
23 representative c u l v e r : Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Madam Secretary, for
25 being here. 59
1 As I think we can all agree, it was an
2 extremely interesting election year, but one of
3 the things I thought was most unique this year was
4 that I heard that there were banner planes flying
5 over the Harrisburg region on Election Day or
6 during the election.
7 Do you know this to be true, Madam
8 Secretary?
9 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes. It was -
10 it was true. So the Department launched a pretty
11 comprehensive Ready to Vote campaign. We, you
12 know -- we began the efforts certainly to educate
13 voters about the new voting systems in advance of
14 the 2020 elections. We also planned to include
15 coworker recruitment efforts in response to
16 concerns, you know, counties about potential
17 for - -
18 representative c u l v e r : So this was the
19 first time we used it?
20 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Well, I believe
21 so. I will need to double check with staff, but I
22 believe -- but yeah, we used, absolutely, those
23 aerial banners. They were used, you know, in
24 various markets, you know, throughout the State,
25 but it wasn't the only thing we did. We also 60
1 embarked on, you know, broadcast television,
2 radio, print media, digital media, and you know,
3 direct mail. So it was a comprehensive statewide
4 effort to ensure that, you know, number one, that
5 we were educating voters about some of the new
6 things that were happening.
7 And then, you know, with of course the
8 onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it also became
9 necessary to make sure that voters knew, you know,
10 what safe voting options were available that could
11 help mitigate the spread, you know, of the virus.
12 So education was, we believe, key, essential to
13 the reason why the election last year was safe, it
14 was secure, accurate.
15 representative c u l v e r : So if you said
16 it, I missed it and I apologize. How many areas
17 of the State did we do this in?
18 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So they were in
19 maybe about six or seven markets, you know,
20 through Philadelphia, Allentown, Wilkes-Barre,
21 Scranton area, you know, here in Harrisburg, and
22 York Counties, Pittsburgh, Erie.
23 REPRESENTATIVE CULVER: So the -
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And some
25 various surrounding areas with that, but again, 61
1 that was just part of, you know, what ultimately
2 was a statewide comprehensive, comprehensive Ready
3 to Vote campaign to help educate voters and
4 provide them with information about how they can
5 vote safely and securely.
6 REPRESENTATIVE CULVER: So can you share
7 with us how much it cost to utilize this
8 messaging?
9 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So
10 Director Mattis, can you speak to -- are you
11 asking just solely about the aerial campaign -
12 REPRESENTATIVE CULVER: Yes.
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- or just all
14 of it?
15 REPRESENTATIVE CULVER: No, just the
16 ae ri al, please.
17 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : We don't have that
18 right now.
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. So we
20 can certainly get back with you on more
21 information about that.
22 representative c u l v e r : Okay. Can you
23 also tell me what the funding source was that was
24 used to pay for that?
25 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So our Ready to 62
1 Vote campaign -- and Director Mattis, feel free to
2 also chime in -- you know, we leveraged certainly
3 the federal funds of the c a r e s Act and also any of
4 the non-federal grants that were -- that were, you
5 know, leveraged and utilized by the Department.
6 REPRESENTATIVE CULVER: If you wouldn't
7 mind, I' d like for the Committee to specifically
8 see where that funding was. But just out of
9 curiosity, I know you said it was like part of a
10 larger package on how to reach people. And
11 unfortunately, I live -- or fortunately, depending
12 on how you look at it -- in rural p a , so we didn't
13 get to see the banner planes. But when you were
14 measuring effectiveness of all of the things you
15 were using, how would you measure the
16 effectiveness of the banner planes?
17 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : I believe that,
18 you know, all of it -- I mean, the comprehensive
19 efforts were, you know, we did everything that we
20 could to make sure that, you know, there was no -
21 well, just so the voters would absolutely be
22 informed in various, you know, ways, like not
23 everyone watches TV or, you know, not everyone
24 does social media, not everyone looks at their
25 mail, you know, when things come in. So we tried 63
1 to be -- we tried to be very comprehensive with
2 our outreach to voters using e-mail, text
3 messages, mailers, paid media. Our website was
4 pretty important, votepa.com. But again, social
5 media, print materials that we, you know,
6 distribute throughout the Commonwealth, so it was
7 comprehensive, all the things that we tried to do
8 to -- safely and where they were, you know, in the
9 p rocess.
10 representative c u l v e r : So there's not
11 one way to measure what the effectiveness of the
12 different outreaches were.
13 So just one final question. In planning
14 for the future elections, would you be doing the
15 banner planes again, and do you feel it was
16 effective and a good way to use money?
17 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : I believe that
18 it was effective in the sense -- so let's talk
19 about effectiveness. When you look at the
20 election and the number of people who participated
21 for the first time, the largest number of
22 participation in a state in a general election
23 shows that the ability for us to share how people
24 could participate in a global pandemic, we believe
25 that that messaging was absolutely effective. 64
1 Which ones were the most -- people were the most
2 responsive to, I'll leave that to our experts, our
3 -- coms department, our media experts, to see if
4 they have additional context related to that.
5 But overall, I can point to just the
6 success that, you know, during a time period when
7 people were -- and counties as well -- were
8 concerned about their safety, also were concerned
9 about how they could participate in the process,
10 if you look at the -- if you look at the
11 participation rate compared to other election
12 years, I think that speaks volumes to whether or
13 not our campaign, in terms of just making sure
14 that people understood how they really could
15 participate was absolutely successful.
16 representative c u l v e r : All right. Thank
17 you for your time.
18 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Our next
20 questioner is Representative Bullock.
21 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you,
22 Mr. Chairman.
23 Good afternoon, Madam Secretary. Good to
24 see you.
25 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Good afternoon. 65
1 representative b u l l o c k : We've talked a
2 lot about the elections and a few questions about
3 our Bureau of Professional and Occupational
4 Affairs. I'd like to go in that direction
5 briefly. We understand that the Bureau is funded
6 primarily and actually solely from the fees and
7 fines collected from the current boards and
8 commissions. I have a question regarding the
9 enactment and effectiveness or the status of the
10 provisions of Act 53, which is a sweeping criminal
11 history reform that has allowed a lot of
12 Pennsylvanians to return to work, and particularly
13 around the licensing process, which had previously
14 precluded a lot of our Pennsylvanians from
15 obtaining licenses for work and skills and trades
16 that they have acquired, many of them who have
17 acquired them in our own Department of
18 Correcti ons.
19 Can you share with me how you have been
20 working with the public to inform them about their
21 access and ability to apply for these licensures
22 under the new regulations and any costs associated
23 with that education?
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I'm going to
25 ask -- I will speak to that and then I will also 66
1 ask if either Deputy Secretary Kiehl or
2 Commissioner Johnson can also be unmuted, so that
3 they can add to this conversation.
4 So yes, you're right. Act 53 was a
5 comprehensive reform of the rules governing, you
6 know, the use of criminal history information and
7 determinations and discipline for licensure. It
8 also went to prohibit the denial of licensure
9 based solely upon moral character, you know,
10 requiring an individual assessment of one's
11 suitability for licensure using, you know, wanting
12 to make sure we're using objective and detailed
13 criteria, you know, for that.
14 And then, that Act, you know, certainly
15 provided for the preliminary determinations upon
16 written requests, whereby individuals with
17 criminal convictions, you know, could be
18 substantially impacted, you know, based on very
19 specific circumstances and information relating to
20 their conviction and any relevant evidence of, you
21 now, mitigation thereafter. So one of the goals
22 is to make sure that we are not in any way -- we
23 want to expand the ability for people to get jobs
24 and participate, you know, in the process. And so
25 if that's the commitment that we want to make sure 67
1 that we do reduce and eliminate some of those
2 barriers and not, you know, inappropriately use
3 someone's things that they may have done in the
4 past to harm them from having -- contributing to
5 our society.
6 So with that, Commissioner Johnson or
7 Deputy Secretary Kiehl, do you want to speak to
8 how -- some of the very specific efforts that you
9 guys have been involved in with related -- with
10 respect to implementing Act 83?
11 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Madam Secretary, I
12 can speak to that, quickly jump in. I would just
13 say that we are very proud, actually, of the work
14 that we've done to implement Act 53, and we're
15 very proud of the legislature and the bipartisan
16 effort to enact that reform. Back when the -
17 back when the Act was signed -- I believe it was
18 in the summer of last year -- from that date,
19 moving through the fall, we engaged in a campaign
20 of, one, engaging in the business communities, and
21 two, engaging through our public board meetings,
22 engaging public and stakeholders with respect to
23 discussing the schedule of crimes that was later
24 published on the -- I believe it' s the December
25 27th date. 68
1 We published that list of -- we published
2 the scheduled offenses that would impact public
3 licensure relating to Act 53. We also published a
4 best practices guide that's currently live on the
5 bpoa website. And that is our public face of
6 resources to help inform and educate not only
7 members of the public, but also prospective
8 licensees about the impact of crime history on
9 licensure. All of our boards, after reviewing and
10 soliciting the feedback from their professional
11 communities, have been and continue to be engaged
12 in the formal regulatory process.
13 So those regulations are currently being
14 drafted. We'll go through the full regulatory
15 process for each of the 29 boards and commissions,
16 and we'll continue to support the reform -
17 representative b u l l o c k : Thank you. One
18 last question, Madam Secretary.
19 Can you share with me your efforts for
20 racial equity within your staffing, racial and
21 gender equity within your hiring and staffing
22 practices?
23 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Absolutely. So
24 yeah, the Department has actively engaged in
25 diversity, equality, and inclusion efforts for 69
1 many years. And you know, we'll make absolutely a
2 commitment to look at culture and the environment,
3 so that it is inclusive, fair, and teamwork is
4 inherent in all of our business practices. We -
5 when we compare ourselves to other agencies, you
6 know, we fare fairly well, not just with, you
7 know, rank-and-file employees, but also with
8 people in positions, you know, of leadership and
9 responsi bility.
10 Certainly, diversity is something that I
11 care very much about, and that is, you know, the
12 ability to have opportunity to show that there is,
13 you know, there's a skill set that we can tap into
14 and that there's just fairness. And so when I
15 look at inclusion in our agency, I see, you know,
16 I see women, I see people, minorities like myself
17 and others, so that we can, you know, build the
18 best work environment, a team full of skilled,
19 confident individuals to continue our mission.
20 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you very
21 much, Madam Secretary.
22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Next is
24 Representative Zimmerman.
25 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, 70
1 Chairman. And thank you, Madam Secretary, for
2 taking time to respond to questions that we have.
3 My question is going to revolve around -
4 excuse me -- it's going to revolve around drop
5 boxes. So the county that I'm in is Lancaster
6 County, and we have over 500,000 people. And we
7 had one drop box. That drop box was actually
8 placed inside our government buildings in
9 Lancaster City, and the security team that's kind
10 of on the lookout when people enter the building,
11 were watching that drop box at all times.
12 So my questions revolve around, number
13 one, how many drop boxes did we have around
14 Pennsylvania, and what was the cost of those -
15 of those boxes? Do you have that information?
16 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Not readily
17 available. We can certainly share that
18 information with you after -- after this session.
19 But I do want to comment on the fact that, you
20 know, you said in your county there was only one
21 drop box, and there, you know, there were other
22 counties that, you know, had more than that, quite
23 frankly.
24 So you know, the decision about, like, to
25 have a drop box -- a secure ballot collection 71
1 site, is how I refer to them -- you know, was
2 certainly up to the counties. And you know, there
3 has been discussion about the use of, you know,
4 some of these grants. And so counties had access
5 to grant funds to, you know, get drop boxes in
6 place .
7 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: So -
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And I work with
9 counties about, you know, making sure that they
10 were aware of, you know, opportunities with using
11 these ballot, secure ballot return collection
12 sites. Because, again, you know, we were faced
13 with a pandemic. People wanted options and
14 alternatives as to how they could safely
15 participate in the process. So I can commit that
16 we're willing to continue working with counties
17 and continue -- will work, you know, with the
18 legislature to, you know, expand upon those
19 alternative, you know, sites so that more
20 counties, you know, will participate and leverage
21 that, you know, in the -
22 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: So could
23 you -
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- elections to
25 come. Sorry. 72
1 representative Zi m m e r m a n : Could you make
2 available the number of drop boxes, the cost of
3 those boxes, and also the funding sources? If you
4 could do that and get that to our Committee, that
5 would be appreciated.
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes.
7 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: Also, one
8 final question. These locations of these drop
9 boxes, was that approved by your -- by your
10 agency?
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So a lot of
12 this -- and just to, you know, again clarify,
13 we'll provide all of the information that we have
14 available with respect to the locations as part of
15 our Ready to Vote campaign. On our website, we
16 made it clear, like, where counties -- or where
17 voters, you know, could go to return their
18 ballots, including ours. And so, yes, we can
19 absolutely share that with you.
20 Additional information that you may be
21 seeking may have to come, you know, directly from
22 the county. So I just wanted to be clear about
23 that. As to where to place the actual -- those
24 were county decisions. As to how many and where
25 they wanted to -- where they wanted to place them. 73
1 What we did at -- myself and the work that, you
2 know, I did working with the county liaisons, I
3 know we have not had a chance to talk about that.
4 It's something that I would like to share -
5 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: So it was
6 actually a -
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- an
8 opportunity itself. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
9 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: It's actually
10 a County -- a county decision on how many boxes a
11 county puts out there and how many locations; is
12 that correct?
13 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Absolutely. We
14 provided information about just making sure that
15 whenever you're going to leverage these secure
16 satellite collections, satellite secure collection
17 sites that they needed to be secure and that there
18 were some, you know, some best practices that we
19 had researched and learned from other States that
20 do, you know, use ballot return sites. We shared
21 that with counties, so that they could leverage
22 that or use that in their decision making -
23 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: Okay.
24 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : -- as they were
25 selecting these sites. 74
1 REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMAN: Great. Well,
2 if you could provide us with the funding source,
3 how many boxes, and the total cost, that would be
4 appreci ated.
5 Thank you.
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: We will
7 absolutely provide as much information that we
8 di rectly have.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Next
10 questioner is Representative Brown.
11 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Good afternoon,
12 Madam Secretary.
13 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Good afternoon.
14 representative A. b r o w n : Thank you.
15 So being that I fully understand that
16 you're fairly new to this role, I'm hoping that
17 your colleagues and deputy secretaries can answer
18 some of those questions.
19 I see here that your Department received
20 three point -- I mean, $38.1 million in filing
21 fees, and $3.8 million went to the General Fund.
22 I'm curious to know where did the other $7.3
23 million go, and what was it used for?
24 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So I am going
25 to ask Director Mattis -- if she could be 75
1 unmuted -- and together we'll answer your
2 questions.
3 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Okay.
4 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Director
5 Matti s.
6 d i r e c t o r MATTIS: Can you hear me?
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes.
8 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : Good. Good. Thank you
9 for that.
10 The -- I assume you're talking about the
11 Bureau of Corporations and Charitable
12 Organizations revenue?
13 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Yes.
14 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : And over the last
15 fiscal year, about $38 million had been received.
16 And it' s one of those things, with all of the
17 filing fees that we've received, a good portion of
18 that is remanded back to the General Fund. So
19 total revenue to the General Fund was just over
20 $30 million. The rest had been -- had remained
21 with the Department. One of the other funding
22 sources that comes in through that Bureau is for
23 charity registration, and that was about $2.8
24 million last year. And that all goes back over to
25 the General Fund. 76
1 representative A. b r o w n : Okay. Thank
2 you. I mean, also, one of your colleagues
3 mentioned that y' all had been engaging in the
4 business communities. I'm just curious to see
5 what y' all think about all these small businesses,
6 or businesses in general, that register with the
7 State. Do y'all think it would be helpful that
8 these businesses -- and any of them; I'm speaking
9 for the businesses in communities like I
10 represent -- do you think it would be useful to
11 the business owners that they receive not just a
12 business license, but maybe some information about
13 how to stay open, like in reference to taxes and
14 things in that nature and other departments that
15 they might need to reach out to make sure their
16 business can stay open or be successful?
17 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So -- I'm
18 sorry. Ask your specific question one more time.
19 I want to make sure that we are -- help me -
20 representative A. b r o w n : Yeah, sure.
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- with the
22 specific part of the specific Bureau -
23 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Yeah, so -
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- that you're
25 speaking of and referencing. 77
1 representative A. b r o w n : So businesses
2 in my community, the reason that -- if they fail,
3 and when they fail, is mainly due to the fact that
4 they were not educated or taught or no one shared
5 the proper information with them about staying
6 open. So if a business registers with the State,
7 do y' all think it would be useful that y' all
8 respond to these people with some information that
9 could be useful to them to remain open, such as
10 action steps that will help them remain open?
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So Deputy
12 Secretary Kiehl, I believe that you have
13 information about our One-Stop -- our One-Stop
14 shop for businesses. I believe that would be good
15 information to share with this Committee.
16 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Okay.
17 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: Yes, I can
18 address that question.
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
20 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: In 2020, the
21 Department of State partnered with the
22 Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic
23 Development to offer services for a business
24 portal that is called the Pennsylvania Business
25 One-Stop Shop. And the particular questions that 78
1 you're asking, Representative, are -- they're
2 addressed there. We at BCCO, the Bureau of
3 Corporations and Charitable Organizations, we
4 manage the filings, but there's other stakeholders
5 and departments that support businesses. So that
6 information is at the One-Stop Shop.
7 Department of Health and other
8 organizations are members of that group. So
9 there's been many initiatives to get that
10 information out to businesses. And you know, we
11 can look into trying to get that messaging out
12 more, but it' s mandatory, to be a part of One-Stop
13 Shop, you use your Keystone login. So if you've
14 filed within the last couple years, you would be a
15 member of that community.
16 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Yeah.
17 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: So -
18 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: I' ve registered
19 several businesses with this State, and I have
20 never received anything that you just mentioned,
21 but it would be nice and helpful for businesses in
22 our communities to receive something like that.
23 And one more thing, please. So back on
24 January 7th, I had my legislative assistant send
25 an e-mail to your Director of Legislative Affairs; 79
1 and it reads, on behalf of Representative Brown,
2 I'm reaching out today to request a list of
3 bodegas/corner stores or small grocery stores
4 which were issued - - which were issued a business
5 license or registered in p a . If possible, could
6 you -- could this listing be organized by county?
7 I would really appreciate any information that you
8 can provide.
9 And Victor Wills responded. He said,
10 Lindsey, I' m not sure if we have that type of
11 list. We only handle the registration of the
12 actual businesses itself. And additionally -
13 additionally, any list produced by our
14 corporations office has an associated fee of
15 $1,000 for the list itself and then 25 cents per
16 name on the list. If you would like to proceed
17 with that, please let me know and I will have our
18 office let you know how to pay for the list.
19 So my question is, does this Department
20 sell people's information?
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I think what
22 I would like to do, Representative, is to let us
23 check on that and let's get back with you. I want
24 to be able to let our team research that a little
25 bit. Yeah, if we can do that, that would be good. 80
1 I want to make sure that we give you the best
2 answer possible -
3 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: Yeah, I just
4 want to make sure we're not selling people's
5 private information.
6 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- what
7 transpired in that particular situation.
8 REPRESENTATIVE A. BROWN: All right.
9 That will be very helpful.
10 Thank you.
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Absolutely.
12 Yeah.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you,
14 Representative Brown.
15 Madam Secretary, I' m going to take
16 Chairman's priority here. I think what
17 Representative Brown is talking about is an
18 excellent thing. I think that many small
19 businessmen and women across the State, whether
20 it's a pandemic or it's any number of things that
21 happen, wonder where to go to get counsel and
22 advice. And if you're a big corporation, you see
23 your accountant, consult your attorney, but it
24 would be great if the Department of State would
25 help assist these businesses, you know, when -- 81
1 not necessarily that they should contact you
2 directly for help as much as where to go for help,
3 what agencies deal with stuff.
4 So I think Representative Brown makes a
5 great point. I thank him for bringing that up
6 because I just think that when you're a small
7 businessman or woman, you know, you're starting
8 out, you're struggling, you don't have a lot of
9 money, you're invested in just getting going. And
10 if the Department of State, with their One-Stop
11 Shop can be of more assistance to small business,
12 I think it would be great for economic development
13 in Pennsylvania. So whatever you can do there to
14 move Representative Brown's idea forward, I would
15 appreciate.
16 With that, I will recognize
17 Representative Natalie Mihalek.
18 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Thank you,
19 Mr. Chairman.
20 Can you hear me okay?
21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: A little low.
23 representative m i h a l e k : Thank you for
24 being here with us this afternoon. As you know,
25 sweeping changes to our Election Code on the heels 82
1 of a presidential election in an unforeseen
2 worldwide pandemic certainly made for our 2020
3 elections here in Pennsylvania to be challenging,
4 I think, beyond what anybody had ever imagined.
5 Within weeks of the first COVID case hitting the
6 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the legislature
7 moved quickly to enact temporary laws to
8 accommodate for the unpredictable nature of the
9 virus.
10 One of those temporary changes allowed
11 for the use of satellite offices during the June
12 primary, with that provision of law expiring on
13 July 3rd of 2020, meaning the Election Code did
14 not permit the satellite offices for the November
15 general election. Yet satellite offices were in
16 operation all across the Commonwealth for the
17 general election. Specifically, in Allegheny
18 County, we had them open on the weekends. Several
19 were open weeknights, where voters could go.
20 They could register to vote. They could
21 actually request a ballot and return it right on
22 the spot. So I want to know, what was the total
23 cost of these satellite offices that were in use
24 during the general election; and what was the
25 source of those funds? 83
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. So
2 first, let's -- and you -- I believe I heard you.
3 You are asking about the -- kind of the Act, I
4 guess, 12, which prevented counties to consolidate
5 voting sites for purposes of -- on Election Day,
6 so that poll workers could, you know, collectively
7 go to a site and allow voters to come to a -- to
8 a, you know, Election Day polling place that was
9 consolidated, like multiple precincts or election
10 districts, right, could go on Election Day.
11 That is separate and distinct from
12 satellite election offices. Satellite election
13 offices were additional sites, county board
14 election sites, where -- that voters could go and,
15 you know, because of Act 77 allowed for voters to
16 have county processes.
17 So a voter could go to, like, just like
18 they could to a county election office, to a
19 primary county election office, and they could
20 request their ballot, receive their balloting
21 materials. They could vote their ballot, and then
22 they could deliver that ballot directly in person
23 to the county election officials.
24 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Yes. I -
25 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : And again, that 84
1 is separate and distinct from the work that, you
2 know, you guys approved in response to the
3 pandemic and the, you know, the loss of, you know,
4 some of the traditional polling sites during the
5 primary: schools, nursing homes, you know -
6 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Yes.
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- that kind of
8 -- that's completely -- that's completely
9 different. I just wanted to make that
10 distinction.
11 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: No. I
12 appreciate the distinction. And just so we're
13 clear, I' m not speaking about the consolidation
14 that was done under Act 12 during the primary.
15 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
16 representative m i h a l e k : And specifically
17 in Allegheny County, we have -- in a normal
18 election cycle, we have 1,121 polling locations
19 across the county. Act 12 provided that if a
20 county was willing to go below 60 percent of its
21 normal polling locations for the June primary
22 election, that it would require Department of
23 State approval. Allegheny County actually went to
24 130 polling locations for our primary, so that's
25 about 10 percent of what it normally has. And the 85
1 Department of State did, in fact, approve that.
2 That is not what I'm talking about here.
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
4 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: My question is
5 for the satellite offices that were not explicitly
6 provided for in Act 77 or Act 12, having to do
7 with a November election. I'm asking what was the
8 cost to the Commonwealth for those satellite
9 offices?
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Right. So the
11 satellite election offices, again, those -- I
12 mean, this is a county election office that they,
13 instead of having, you know, just their main site,
14 they allow their staff to go to an alternative
15 site to perform county election functions, just as
16 they would at the primary site. Your question
17 goes to -- goes to funding, and I would again
18 point to that some of this information is best
19 suited to be directed directly to the counties.
20 To the extent that funding would have
21 come from some of our, you know, grants, whether
22 it' s the Federal grant, the CARES Act, again, for
23 purposes of mitigating, you know, the COVID
24 response or some of the non-Federal grants. To
25 the extent that we have that information, I 86
1 believe we can absolutely share that in terms of
2 how much it would have -- like what portion of
3 those grants that the counties may have used.
4 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Yes, I have -- I
5 know that you have indicated to a colleague who
6 had previously asked about the grant money. So if
7 there's a breakdown of how much of that went to
8 the satellite offices, I would like that
9 information, as well.
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah. Let me
11 look into that for you to see if we have those
12 speci fi cs.
13 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Did your
14 Department approve of the use of the -
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:
16 Representative, your time has expired.
17 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Oh, did I -
18 did I expire already?
19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sorry.
21 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: That went very
22 quickly.
23 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : More than happy
24 to have additional conversations.
25 REPRESENTATIVE MIHALEK: Thank you. I do 87
1 have some more questions on it, specifically
2 dealing with the satellite offices, but I thank
3 you for your time today.
4 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We may do a
6 second round, so -- okay. Very good.
7 With that, we'll recognize Representative
8 Cephas.
9 REPRESENTATIVE CEPHAS: Thank you,
10 Chai rman.
11 And good afternoon, Secretary. How are
12 you?
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm good. How
14 are you?
15 representative CEPHAS: Fantastic. My
16 questions are centered around the role that the
17 professional licensing boards play when it came to
18 the Governor's decision to shut down different
19 industries throughout COVID-19. So during the
20 entire process, I mean, rightfully so, Dr. Levine
21 is the expert, or was the expert when she was
22 here, but I want to better understand the role
23 that the professional licensing boards played in
24 the decision to close certain industries, as well
25 as to open certain industries. 88
1 And I ask that question because down in
2 southeastern Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, we had
3 a series of local barbers and hairstylists
4 organize -- close to about two to 300 barbers and
5 stylists -- you know, questioning some of the
6 decisions that we made about, one, closing them
7 and at what point they were allowed to open. And
8 I ask that question because I find that our
9 professional licensing boards are experts around
10 how these businesses are operating. And if that
11 is the case, wouldn't it be ideal to check in with
12 them to get some advice about how the different
13 industries can reopen?
14 And again, when I say the barbers and
15 stylists, we had Kenny Duncan from Main Attraction
16 Unisex Salon, Darrell Thomas from Philly Cuts, and
17 Ann Turner from Hair Du Jour Salon. Very diverse
18 group. Again, significant expertise in the
19 industry, and they literally laid out a plan for
20 some legislators as to how they would be able to
21 safely reopen, but also stay open during the rest
22 of the pandemic.
23 So I just kind of want to get a sense
24 from you, do you feel that the role with our
25 professional boards, professional licensing 89
1 boards, should go beyond just issuing licenses,
2 but also weigh in on, you know, future reopenings
3 when it comes -- future reopenings and closings
4 when it comes to this pandemic?
5 I just kind of want to get a sense, do
6 you feel that they should play a role in that
7 conversation?
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Well, I'm going
9 to -- I' ll start, and then Commissioner Johnson
10 is, you know -- also probably needs to be miked up
11 and unmuted to also add to this conversation.
12 So it' s my understanding that, you know,
13 our role with respect to closing, business
14 closures, we have zero role in that. Our role is
15 -- we do have a role in our Bureau of Enforcement
16 and Investigations to go, like if we receive
17 complaints that a business that is open is not
18 adhering to the COVID mitigation requirements.
19 And even when they do that, they are education
20 fi rst.
21 So I think I want to make sure that
22 there's some clarification about what the role of
23 our Bureau of Professional Licensure and
24 Occupational Licensure is, as distinct from our
25 Bureau of Enforcement and Investigations. I would 90
1 like to use this time, if you don't mind, since
2 that is not our role in shutting down/closures -
3 I mean, that's not what we do. What we have done
4 with respect to professional and occupational
5 licenses is the waivers. Really, over 80 of them
6 that we have approved, we have adopted to support
7 the health and safety of the public to provide
8 more opportunities for people to help and
9 participate, you know, in the process.
10 And we started that very early, like in
11 March, you know, in 2020, like telemedicine,
12 right, comes to mind, the things that we did so
13 people could get the medical care that they
14 needed. If it was something that was not so
15 emergent, but they needed to go in person, the
16 adoption of the telemedicine waiver was important.
17 And most recently, just a number of waivers about,
18 like, the ability for people to offer vaccines,
19 you know, as we, you know, try to get them
20 vaccinated so that they can return to work, return
21 to school. I mean, that is the mission of our
22 Bureau with respect to, you know, the pandemic.
23 They're using those waivers to support the health
24 and safety of the public.
25 And then, the Bureau of Enforcement and 91
1 Investigations, you know, coming in, you know,
2 not -- you know, education first, just to you make
3 sure that people are wearing masks, that they're
4 following social distance. And that is with
5 respect to, you know, responding to complaints
6 that people are receiving.
7 representative CEPHAS: Thank you.
8 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Commissioner
9 Johnson, hopefully I've given you enough time, but
10 is there anything that you want to add to the
11 Representative's question?
12 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, Secretary,
13 just to supplement it really quickly. Our boards
14 have no -- they have no authority, nor have they
15 had any role in the closure of any businesses.
16 All of the waivers that we have generated out of
17 the Department of State have been to expand access
18 and to protect those licensees, specifically those
19 small businesses. And the gentlemen that you
20 mentioned with regard to the plan for our barber
21 licensees, that actually -- that actually did make
22 it to the Barber Board, and they were influential
23 in speaking directly to the administration about
24 the impacts that the pandemic was having early on.
25 So we are proud of being able to 92
1 facilitate those conversations, but I would also
2 like to mention that the Department was
3 responsible or influential in launching a pilot
4 program that was helpful for many of our salons
5 and many of our cosmetology licensees. That pilot
6 program enabled those students who, due to the
7 pandemic, were losing out on their training hours,
8 to be able to -- to be able to have that
9 experience by working in participating shops.
10 So again, to your point, Representative,
11 we've been very active in trying to make sure that
12 we keep folks working and get those folks that
13 have -- that are either new licensees or existing
14 licensees access to continue making money and
15 providing for their families.
16 representative CEPHAS: Thank you.
17 And I know my time is up, but I do want
18 to thank you for taking those recommendations to
19 the Secretary. Because that really helped the
20 industry. And I think as we climb through this
21 crisis, we need to look at this as an opportunity
22 to see how government can work better and work
23 alongside these businesses and use those boards
24 to, again, help guide how we navigate ourselves
25 out of COVID-19. So thank you for that. 93
1 And thank you for indulging me, Chairman.
2 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Thank you very
3 much.
4 The Chair now recognizes the gentleman.
5 Mr. Hershey.
6 REPRESENTATIVE HERSHEY: Thank you,
7 Mr. Vice-Chair.
8 Good afternoon, Madam Secretary.
9 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Good afternoon.
10 REPRESENTATIVE HERSHEY: My questions are
11 related to the statewide update of the voting
12 machines. So as you know, there was an Executive
13 Order in 2018 to require a statewide update of
14 voting machines for elections security. In
15 Act 77, we provided a $90-million bond issue to
16 partially reimburse counties for the expenses
17 related to updating their voting machines.
18 My first question is, what percentage of
19 counties so far have received their
20 reimbursements? I noticed that there was a
21 request for some of the debt service for this
22 appropri ati on.
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Right. So let
24 me check my notes. Out of the $90 million, I
25 believe that the counties have used -- leveraged 94
1 either $40 or $60 million of that. But I'm going
2 to dig a little deeper and get into that specific.
3 And then I'm going to also ask Director Mattis to
4 help with your questions, as well.
5 REPRESENTATIVE HERSHEY: Okay. I'm
6 interested in knowing that. And also, what
7 requirements -- or what do counties have to
8 demonstrate in order to receive that
9 reimbursement, as well?
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I mean, just
11 to let you know, all counties have, you know,
12 replaced their voting equipment. And if you're
13 asking specifically, like which counties -- are
14 there any counties who have not yet asked for
15 reimbursement; definitely Director Mattis can give
16 us, you know, more specifics on that.
17 With respect to like what do, like
18 providing invoices and receipts of those
19 purchases, you know, would likewise be the
20 importance. So the total amount that counties,
21 overall, have asked for with respect to the grant
22 is a total of, let's see, I am seeing $70 -
23 about $79 million; is that correct, Director
24 Matti s?
25 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : Madam Secretary, that 95
1 is correct. Out of the $90 million, the counties
2 have submitted contracts and invoices and quotes
3 up to, you know, to show that we can reimburse
4 each one of them 60 percent of the costs that are
5 associated with that particular State program.
6 To date, we have reimbursed counties
7 almost $41 million of what has been requested out
8 of that total $79. So one of the things that we
9 require of the counties, to be able to put forth
10 those moneys, is it's a reimbursement grant. So
11 they have to show us actual invoices, proof of
12 payment, things like that. And when that happens,
13 my staff can go ahead and process those
14 reimbursement requests.
15 So they are a priority for our agency.
16 We do push those up to the front of the line
17 because we do understand that any of these grant
18 moneys, especially surrounding elections, need to
19 be the forefront of what we're doing, to make sure
20 we get those moneys out to the county as soon as
21 possible.
22 REPRESENTATIVE HERSHEY: And I remember
23 the original intent of the Executive Order was to
24 require a paper trail. So what kind of election
25 security requirements are in place to receive this 96
1 reimbursement? Do the counties have to
2 demonstrate that?
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I -
4 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : So I'm going to -
5 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm sorry. Go
6 ahead, Kim.
7 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : Sorry. I was actually
8 just going to let Deputy Secretary Marks jump in
9 with one of the requirements for them to get that
10 reimbursement. Besides the financial impact,
11 there was some other things.
12 d e p u t y s e c r e t a r y m a r k s : Yeah, I think
13 it' s important to note that counties could only
14 purchase certified voting systems and certified
15 voting system equipment, meaning that those
16 systems went through not only federal
17 certification, but also the certification process
18 of the Department of State, which included
19 additional security and vulnerability testing
20 beyond what's included at the federal level.
21 So that's sort of a baseline. Counties
22 could only purchase certified voting equipment,
23 meaning that anything they purchased would have
24 been certified for use, not only at the federal
25 level, but also at the State level, as well. 97
1 representative h e r s h e y : Okay. Thank
2 you.
3 And I believe my time is about up here,
4 so I'll just end my questioning for now.
5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you.
7 The Chair recognizes Representative Schroeder.
8 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Secretary, good afternoon.
11 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Good afternoon.
12 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: So roughly 2.6
13 million ballots were returned via mail in the 2020
14 general election. Please provide the total cost
15 of these mail-in provisions as well as a breakdown
16 of these costs.
17 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So your -- I
18 want to make sure I' m responsive to your question,
19 but I want to make sure I also understand your
20 question. You're asking how much it cost for the
21 counties to process returned -
22 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: Yes, the
23 total -
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- mail-in
25 absentee ballots? 98
1 representative SCHROEDER: And like as a
2 Commonwealth, how much was given?
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. Are you
4 speaking in reference to -- so the Department did
5 use funding, some of the grant funding to ensure
6 that anyone who wanted to return their ballot by
7 mail, and to the extent that the county wanted to
8 use -- like this is for reply mail and we help
9 them with that. So there were -- we did -- there
10 were some grants that we reimbursed counties or we
11 paid it directly using this as reply mail.
12 Is that specifically what you're
13 referencing in terms of like what the Department
14 would have paid for?
15 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: Yeah, I was
16 looking for a total cost of what it cost to
17 actually do the mail-in ballot for the whole 2020
18 general election because I know the federal
19 dollars also went for postage and things, but I
20 was seeing what exactly we paid for as a
21 Commonwealth.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So just -- I
23 mean, I can speak to, I mean, in terms of the
24 postage that we either used business reply mail,
25 you know, working with the postage, counties 99
1 putting a, you know, business reply mail on their
2 return envelopes so that voters would not have to
3 affix a stamp. Or some counties decided they
4 would put a stamp on all of the return envelopes
5 when they mailed the balloting materials directly
6 to voters, and that cost -- it was about $1.1 -
7 a little over $1.1 million.
8 With respect to like how much does it
9 cost, if that's -- the counties fund that in terms
10 of their overall processes. So the counties are
11 responsible for the configuration and the printing
12 of the ballots of their envelopes, you know,
13 paying people to help process. That was a cost
14 that we would not have had, but yeah.
15 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: So to connect
16 into that, I also would like to know what role
17 social media played in the mail-in voting process.
18 Specifically, can you provide to the Committee who
19 your target audience was for mail-in voting and
20 the amount spent on advertising the election?
21 And specifically, if you could do it if
22 it was Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. And with
23 that, because I know that there were ads that were
24 targeting age group -- I know 34 and under was one
25 of them. I was somebody who got targeted with an 100
1 ad. So can you please explain to me how that was
2 decided, how much money was put into this, and how
3 you decided who to target as a Department?
4 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So it's, you
5 know, in working with, you know, the counties and
6 working with the staff last year, you know, the
7 targeting was based more on messaging, of just
8 making sure that people had access to
9 opportunities. So I think I explained earlier
10 that it was a comprehensive approach, you know,
11 to, you know, the work that we did. Like some
12 things, mailers, right, were based on like the
13 primary date, or get your ballot -
14 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: Not to
15 interrupt you, but -
16 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah.
17 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: -- to know,
18 what specifically then, why the age group was
19 specified, like, why did we pick 34 and under to
20 target? I think the election would affect all
21 ages.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: We tried to be
23 comprehensive in our direct outreach, you know,
24 through all the things that I mentioned, you know,
25 social media certainly included. So it was not 101
1 just one thing that we did. I mean, all of our
2 ages, all of our ages were targeted, all of the
3 voters in this State -- it was a statewide -
4 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: And I think if
5 you look at Facebook, you can actually access the
6 library and see where the ads were and what age
7 group and what area of the State, and also, the
8 cost of each ad that was done. And many of them
9 were targeted just at 34 and under in certain
10 areas of the State, so I was wondering why that
11 was and how much money was actually put on for
12 social media specifically for the election.
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And I believe
14 -- if we, you know, we're going to look at, you
15 know, following up with this Committee to make
16 sure you're aware of like how much was spent on
17 our comprehensive Ready to Vote campaign. Again,
18 I would say that we did use social media,
19 understanding that not everyone using social
20 media, but more so the approach was to at that
21 time hit so many different avenues in our
22 campaign, direct mail, you know, print media.
23 REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER: Yeah, if it
24 would be possible -- I think my time is up, I' m
25 sorry -- if you could just maybe get how much was 102
1 actually put in for social media for the last
2 year's election. I don't know if that has to do
3 with that grant money that you talked to other
4 colleagues about here today, but I would really
5 like to know that number. Thank you.
6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
8 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: And if that's
9 something that you could send on, Madam Secretary,
10 to the Committee, if you come up with that total
11 for social media spending, then you can always
12 e-mail that to us and then we can distribute it to
13 our members.
14 And with that - -
15 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- to provide a
16 comprehensive summary of like our Ready to Vote -
17 comprehensive Ready to Vote campaign that was
18 statewide. And so, yes, I'm committed to making
19 sure that we can provide you with as much
20 information as we have available.
21 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Thank you so
22 much.
23 We'll recognize the gentleman from
24 Lancaster, Mr. Greiner.
25 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thank you, 103
1 Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Madam Secretary, for
2 being here today.
3 I do want to follow up on a question.
4 It's hard to believe the afternoon is flying by.
5 It might have been an hour or so ago, but it
6 involved the Mark Zuckerberg question and the
7 not-for-profits. And what I was wondering is, to
8 kind of further that question -- I don't know that
9 we got an answer.
10 I think my colleague had asked, do we
11 know what the total dollar amount was that these
12 not-for-profit organizations had invested in the
13 Commonwealth for -- that's going to be another
14 question. I don't know whether it's for voting
15 machines or what type of equipment, so maybe you
16 can just follow up on both of those, the amount
17 and then what those dollars -- those dollars were
18 used for.
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah. So the
20 CERR [phonetic] grant, you know the Center for
21 Election -- it' s not coming to mind what CERR
22 stands for, but I think that's the grant, the
23 non-federal grant that you're speaking of, so you
24 know, direct mail. Almost $2 million went to
25 direct mail. I was able to pull that up. Paid 104
1 media, almost 11 -- $11 million, you know, were
2 attributed, you know, to that. And you know,
3 election staff or election call hotline, you know,
4 that, you know, was a little under 200, $200,000.
5 So that's where, you know, those funds -- those
6 funds went.
7 So the other, you know, the CTCL grant
8 with the equipment, there was an earlier
9 conversation, you know, what, you know, we're
10 talking about in terms of scanners, barcode
11 scanners. So it's equipment used for counties to
12 process, either to process getting ballots into
13 the mail stream -- this is not the voting
14 equipment. It was equipment used to facilitate
15 the process of sending out ballots or to
16 facilitate the process of what happens when
17 ballots are returned.
18 So you know, and then some security that
19 those -
20 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: So -
21 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- technology
22 grants were used. And so those things, you know,
23 were -- and p p e , like paper towels, sneeze guards,
24 hand sanitizer, those are the types of things that
25 with that funding -- 105
1 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Let me
2 interject. Let me interject. Are the scanners
3 that were acquired, are they certified by the
4 Commonwealth?
5 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So the
6 Commonwealth certifies voting -- voting systems,
7 like so these are not your precinct tabulators,
8 that are also referred to as scanners, or the
9 central count scanners, which are, you know, the
10 tabulators from the voting systems used, like
11 during tabulating the mail and the absentee, the
12 absentee ballots. When I say scanners, I'm
13 talking about like barcode scanners, so that when,
14 you know, there's a barcode on the return ballot.
15 So when you scan the barcode, that's how the
16 county knows that the ballot has not yet been
17 returned or it has been cancelled or anything.
18 That's the type of scanner that, you know, I'm
19 referencing in terms of processing, the old
20 processing equipment that counties leverage just
21 because, you know, the volume of mail ballots,
22 absentee mail-in ballots that they were receiving.
23 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Let me -- a
24 couple quick other questions. Correct me if I'm
25 wrong, but if there's more than $5 million that 106
1 comes in, that's -- that's public information. If
2 it's less than $5 million, it does not have to be
3 disclosed to the public; is that correct?
4 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So Deputy -
5 Director Mattis, if you could help with, you know,
6 understanding like what is required, what's not
7 required in terms of like reporting, I mean, that
8 would be helpful. And I would imagine that we
9 would be able to disclose, you know, any of this
10 as part of a Right to Know request.
11 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Let me ask
12 another -
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And I also want
14 to make sure that -- and I know that we're going
15 to owe you some additional information, so that
16 we're clear about, like, the funds, like, we have
17 available in terms of how we utilize any -
18 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Yeah, that -
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- of the
20 federal or -
21 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Yeah. That's -
22 I'm almost out of time.
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- grants.
24 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Let me ask you,
25 without sounding partisan, but we took the 107
1 Zuckerberg money, what happens if you'd have a
2 conservative group that was willing to put this
3 kind of money in? Would that have been accepted?
4 Would that have been tolerated?
5 Would you have allowed that if that would
6 have occurred?
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Any time that
8 anyone wants to, you know, donate money -- and
9 again, this was -- it was legal; it was vetted -
10 it would go through that vetting process just to
11 make sure. So we would have conferred with
12 counsel to make sure that any funds that were
13 received could be either, you know, used by
14 State -- and I' m sure that, you know, the counties
15 who had -- all counties had opportunities to apply
16 for these grants, too, that they would, you
17 know -- it' s something that would go through your
18 vetting process.
19 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Just one last
20 comment. I'm worried about the private money and
21 the funds coming in.
22 Thank you for the indulgence for the
23 extra 20 seconds.
24 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah.
25 representative t o p p e r : Thank you. 108
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
2 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Next, the Chair
3 recognizes Representatives James.
4 representative JAMES: Good afternoon.
5 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Good afternoon.
6 representative JAMES: Thank you,
7 Mr. Chairman.
8 Secretary, I'd like to ask a couple
9 questions about the budget, please. Back in March
10 of 2020, our Governor announced non-essential
11 Commonwealth employees were to work remotely due
12 to the outbreak of COVID. Setting aside the
13 somewhat insulting term of non-essential, I' m
14 guessing that that would include some of the
15 employees of the Department of State. With this
16 Order, all Commonwealth agencies ought to see a
17 reduction in operating expenses, including travel,
18 utilities, supplies, other overhead, et cetera.
19 Please detail to our Committee how much
20 this has saved your agency and what impact that's
21 had on productivity and customer service.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Right. So I
23 want to -- I' m going to talk about this broadly
24 about, you know, the work that, you know, the
25 Department stayed over 500-plus employees, various 109
1 divisions -- the distinction between, you know,
2 the side that deals with elections and commissions
3 and the side that deals with regulatory programs.
4 And to the extent that in both of those, you know,
5 I guess, large subgroups, there are people who
6 have to continue sometimes coming directly into
7 the office, and those that could continue their
8 work, you know, remotely.
9 So on the election side, like, you know,
10 we had to have people coming in to process mail
11 because of, you know, the voter registration and,
12 you know, other things that were related that were
13 coming in. But many of us also, you know,
14 definitely worked from home. And I think it's a
15 good time to also indicate that with respect to
16 our mission that we will always, always strive to
17 do the things that we're supposed to do with
18 respect to our jobs and with elections. There
19 were, you know, all of us who worked really,
20 really long hours because that's what the counties
21 were doing in order to support the process.
22 So on the regulatory side, I would like
23 to offer Deputy Secretary Kiehl or Commissioner
24 Johnson to talk about, I think, something that's
25 very specific to your point, were there any cost 110
1 savings and were there any -- anything that was
2 actually achieved in terms of productivity. And I
3 think they would have some interesting information
4 to share with you about some of their call centers
5 and how they continue, just like on the election
6 side, to absolutely provide support.
7 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES: Okay. But -
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And I believe
9 they are doing some additional analysis into that,
10 so -
11 representative JAMES: Please -- please
12 do.
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah. Yeah.
14 Deputy Secretary Kiehl, I think it would be
15 important for you to share some of your findings
16 with respect to that, if he can be unmuted.
17 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES: Was one of your
18 deputies going to speak to this today?
19 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes, it is
20 Deputy Secretary Craig Kiehl. I think he's -
21 we're just trying to get him unmuted, so he can
22 talk about -
23 representative JAMES: Well, while you're
24 looking for him, could I ask another question?
25 It appears -- 111
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Sure.
2 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: I'm unmuted.
3 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
4 representative JAMES: It appears you
5 have dealt with the Governor and you're expecting
6 about a 36-percent increase in your Department for
7 general government operations. I'd like to get
8 some comments about that, too, why you feel that
9 much of an increase is necessary.
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. Go
11 ahead, Deputy Secretary Kiehl, on the cost savings
12 of teleworking. And then, I'm going to pull up
13 the appropriations of general government
14 ope rati ons.
15 d e p u t y s e c r e t a r y k i e h l : That's a great
16 question. We did have many challenges working in
17 a telework environment, just figuring it out. But
18 I think a lot of the initial cost savings were
19 with utilities and lights and folks working in the
20 office, and the things that would normally, you
21 know, be used if people were in the office. One
22 of our gains that we had was actually -- we saw
23 value in using our system, surgeries our PALS
24 System, and that helped us with customer service
25 in connecting with our constituents and also with 112
1 our customers. And I know Commissioner Johnson
2 would like to add a few things with that.
3 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES: What percentage of
4 your employees are still working from home now,
5 roughly?
6 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: My four program
7 areas -- we are Bureau of Enforcement and
8 Investigation -- they're in the field. So we have
9 about 140 there. So about 100 percent of that
10 program is working in the field because that's
11 where the investigations and the inspections take
12 place. We have about -- probably about 80 percent
13 of our bpoa Licensing Bureau is working in a
14 telework environment. We have our Division of
15 Document Processing Center, which is in and they
16 process revenue and documents. So they're still
17 in the building.
18 And our Corporations Bureau -- we have a
19 fairly large element -- probably about 30 percent
20 is working in the office because, again, they
21 still have the physical aspects of their job.
22 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES: Mr. Secretary,
23 will you give them time to answer whether there
24 was any cost savings whatsoever?
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Sure. 113
1 representative JAMES: Please do.
2 DEPUTY SECRETARY KIEHL: We're still
3 looking at the numbers. And again, this was
4 something that we were forced to do, so I can't
5 speak to that, but we'll surely get back to you.
6 representative JAMES: Okay. Thank you
7 very much.
8 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
9 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: And I think I'm
10 -- I found the portion of the budget that speaks
11 to the general government operations. So we are,
12 you know, a big portion of it is because of the -
13 the publishing requirements of redistricting. As
14 you know, the Department, once those plans are
15 approved, we are required to, you know, publish
16 those maps and the text of the legislation with
17 respect to congressional and legislative
18 districts.
19 So there's quite a substantial amount of
20 money in this upcoming year that we will need
21 to -- the 2022 fiscal year -- that we will need to
22 make sure that we're publishing -- publishing
23 that. And then, as you know, we are modernizing
24 the SURE System, so there is a percentage of our
25 budget that is related to SURE modernization. And 114
1 then Director Mattis, if there's anything else you
2 want to add to those items that I see here in the
3 budget, please feel free to do so. But again,
4 that's a -- two sizable portions of that increased
5 related to the $2.5 million related to printing a
6 portion of the maps and I think $400,000 of that
7 related to the congressional printing.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Okay. I'm
9 going to go to Representative Krueger next. I
10 know she's virtual, so if she can unmute herself.
11 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER: Thank you,
12 Mr. Chairman.
13 Thank you, Secretary, so much for taking
14 the time to answer all of our questions today. I
15 want to ask about your Department's procedures and
16 budget needs related to election security. I
17 think one of the most important things that the
18 Department of State does is to fulfill our
19 Constitutional obligation to a secure election.
20 And I' m asking because of questions that I' m
21 getting here in my legislative district.
22 In particular, there was an instance of
23 voter fraud here in my district. There's a
24 gentleman who attempted to register his deceased
25 mother and deceased mother-in-law to vote. He 115
1 then went and cast a vote on behalf of his
2 deceased mother, and he was caught. He has been
3 charged with two counts of perjury and the trial
4 is pending.
5 But my question for you is this, what
6 kind of safeguards and procedures are in place for
7 the Department of State to ensure that folks like
8 this can't cast votes for family members who are
9 deceased?
10 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So your
11 question was, you know, with respect to the budget
12 and, you know, security. And so security of our
13 systems is important so the SURE modernization
14 project will absolutely take security, you know,
15 in mind, but I think the instance that you spoke
16 of, that you reference, was related to really the
17 good work that your county did in detecting that
18 information. And certainly, you know, part of
19 what they do is leveraging as they administer
20 elections, is use and utilize the SURE System.
21 So you know, the work that we will be
22 doing to give counties a better tool will
23 absolutely play into their ability to efficiently
24 and effectively administer elections and detect
25 any instance of anything that is improper. But 116
1 really, I think you picked up on something that is
2 just as important as the technology, and that is
3 the work, the diligent work of what counties do
4 every single day, you know, not just during an
5 election, but also in the lead up to an election.
6 And that is to properly, you know, not only get
7 people registered, but look for people who need to
8 be removed from the voter rolls.
9 You know, you mentioned that fraud was
10 committed. And so I can tell you, in my
11 experience, you know, as an elections
12 administrator, that one of the best ways of
13 preventing anything from happening improperly, you
14 know, with respect to elections administration are
15 the efforts that we need to conduct in endless
16 maintenance. So I would commit to you that I'm
17 willing and absolutely look forward to working
18 with the legislature and to the counties, you
19 know, with the counties' boards of elections on
20 continuing to improve those maintenance efforts
21 and using and leveraging the SURE system to be
22 able -- to be able to do that.
23 That's important, I believe, for the
24 counties to be able to do their work. And
25 absolute kudos to your county for detecting that. 117
1 And I look forward to doing thing to continue to
2 allow counties to very quickly detect those types
3 and prevent, right, those types of occurrences.
4 representative k r u e g e r : Thank you. And
5 yes, I' m grateful for the folks at our Bureau of
6 Elections who were working around the clock,
7 literally around the clock, to make sure votes
8 were counted. In some cases, actually receiving
9 death threats and yet they got their job done and
10 made sure that every legal vote was counted.
11 In addition to this case in Delaware
12 County, are you aware of any other instances of
13 voter fraud tied to the November 2020 election?
14 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So what I was,
15 you know, made aware of -- I don't know if it was,
16 you know, the case that you spoke of just now, but
17 yeah, I was aware that there were some individuals
18 who attempted to vote in the name of, you know, a
19 deceased relative. And so that is, you know,
20 that's unacceptable to all of us. It's
21 unacceptable to the process. And again, I would
22 commit to say that I look forward to working -
23 continuing to work with the counties and working
24 with our other partners and stakeholders, and
25 certainly the legislature, to improve the 118
1 administration of elections -
2 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER: So my
3 understanding is there were three cases total:
4 the one here in Delaware County, the one in
5 Chester County, and then another one up in the
6 northeast, all of which were caught and verified.
7 And again, I'm grateful that we've got the SURE
8 System for verification, you know. Because the
9 story has been in the news, I' ve got in questions
10 from constituents of both party affiliations.
11 This gentleman happened to be casting a vote for
12 President Trump, but no one in my mind should be
13 casting a vote for a deceased relative regardless
14 of political party.
15 So I' ve gotten questions from
16 constituents about audit processes and how we're
17 ensuring that only the number of votes that were
18 legally cast are counted in our elections. My
19 understanding is that Pennsylvania is one of the
20 first States in the country to pilot a
21 risk-limiting audit.
22 So can you talk a little bit about that
23 process and how that will -- how that is working
24 or how that will work as an audit process for
25 Pennsylvania elections? 119
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Right. A
2 risk-limiting audit is just another form of what
3 is known in the elections world, elections
4 nomenclature, if you will, of post-election, a
5 post-election audit. And they're incredibly
6 important for, you know, with respect to, you
7 know, elections administration, election
8 integrity. And so we did, you know, participate
9 with the counties that participated, and we have
10 encouraged counties to participate in these types
11 of audits because they look at a statewide contest
12 and we're able to use statistics to provide
13 confidence that the outcome that, you know, the
14 official outcome is, you know, consistent with the
15 outcome that is identified in the audit.
16 But you know, Pennsylvania right now,
17 right, they have the 2-percent audit. And
18 different counties do it, you know, different
19 ways. And you know, so in order to bring, you
20 know, some uniformity to the process, we do
21 believe that we would want to work with you and
22 have the General Assembly allow us to say that the
23 audit that the counties would participate in, you
24 know, prior to, you know, whether results are made
25 officially, or made official, I guess, would be 120
1 this type of risk-limiting audit.
2 I mean, that is becoming the standard
3 right know, you know, as other states, you know,
4 move towards this process, but also, you know, 10
5 years down the road, it may be something else. So
6 I think that just having -- just thinking ahead,
7 making sure that there's some level of flexibility
8 there in the Department of State in partnership
9 with the counties and partnership with other
10 stakeholders can really hone in on what's
11 important in terms of providing confidence in the
12 outcome, you know, of the election. And for right
13 now, it's absolutely using a risk-limit audit.
14 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER: Thank you, Madam
15 Secretary. And last question, this -
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
17 Krueger, I have to interrupt you. I've given you
18 more time than -- your time had expired before the
19 last question. So I have to cut you off there and
20 move on to the next questioner.
21 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER: Thank you,
22 Mr. Chairman.
23 Thank you, Madam Secretary.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: You're
25 welcome. I know you cannot see the red button 121
1 here, so I apologize.
2 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER: I cannot see the
3 red button. I've been trying to check a time
4 clock here.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: No problem.
6 With that, we'll call on Representative
7 Heffley.
8 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Just to follow up. Some earlier
11 questions actually changed the line of question,
12 or the question that I did have. So I'm really
13 curious about this private grant money. I have a
14 few follow-up questions about the money that came
15 in from the CTCL, which is a non-profit set up by
16 Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla, gave
17 money to the Department of State, $16.5 million.
18 That money -- will the Department be
19 looking for that money to come out of the
20 appropriation this year to continue the 2021 with
21 the same get out the vote efforts that they did in
22 2020?
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Those funds
24 were -- they were leveraged and used directly in
25 support of actions related to the 2020, you know, 122
1 general election.
2 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: So is it
3 important -- is it important that we continue that
4 spending on those types of projects, or was this
5 just a one-time money that was needed to get the
6 vote out?
7 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Yeah, there
8 was, you know -- in addition to the CERR and the
9 CTCL grants, there was other efforts, right, from
10 other -- like there was Business for America who
11 reached out to us and said, like there were other
12 peoples -
13 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: And how much did
14 -- how much money did those other organizations
15 give?
16 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So they worked
17 with individual counties, like if they wanted -
18 like if they needed sneeze guards or if they
19 needed a location or a place to put, you know, the
20 pre-canvassing activities. I guess the point I
21 was making there is there was a lot of interest -
22 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: The money was
23 provided from the federal CARES Act for PPE and
24 additional funding of COViD-related expenses for
25 the counties through the Department of State, 123
1 right, the c are s Act money that was appropriated
2 for that, but yet you're saying it wasn't enough
3 that the counties actually went out and solicited
4 from private entities.
5 Now, do those private entities -- did
6 they have to report back to them how the money was
7 spent, and was there strings attached to them with
8 how it could be spent?
9 You had said that it was to provide p p e ,
10 but I think CARES Act dollars were also used for
11 that.
12 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : There were a
13 list of things that the counties could use these
14 grants for. And absolutely the c a r e s Act -- the
15 Department of State absolutely used the CARES Act
16 to help pema to provide p p e . With respect to if
17 counties wanted to use some of their grant money
18 to help supplement that directly, you know, sure,
19 like the sneeze guards. We provided one per
20 polling site. Like if a county had two or three
21 different check-in stations at a polling site,
22 then they may have needed some more. So I mean,
23 that's just one of things, one of the things that
24 it was used for.
25 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: You also said 124
1 they used the money for call centers and support
2 staff. Now, were those State employees that were
3 paid with this money?
4 And what type of call center, because
5 everybody was working remotely. So if the phone
6 rang, where did that call go? And who answered
7 it, was it a State employee that was paid by this
8 grant, or a county employee paid by the grant, or
9 was it a third-party agency that picked up the
10 phone? And were those people -
11 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So again, two
12 different grant, I mean, different grants. Like I
13 mentioned the election stat election call hotline.
14 Those individuals were working, you know, from
15 their home -
16 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: And those were
17 State employees?
18 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm sorry.
19 I -
20 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: I'm sorry. I
21 only have five minutes.
22 So you're sayi ng -
23 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm just trying
24 to answer your question and I just want to make
25 sure that -- 125
1 representative h e f f l e y : They were State
2 employees? They were State employees that were
3 working from home?
4 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I believe
5 that they were either annuitants or they could
6 have been, to the extent that we needed help
7 answering the phone, answering voters' calls who
8 were wanting information about how they could
9 safely vote and participate in a process. What's
10 important to note is how there were different
11 categories of like how these funds, both federal
12 grants and the non-federal grant, you know, were
13 leveraged and used.
14 I have committed that this Department
15 certainly will share as much information as we
16 have available with those specific breakdowns.
17 And so - -
18 REPRESENTATIVE HEFFLEY: But shouldn't
19 all that -- shouldn't all of that be available?
20 Like all of that information should really be
21 available. I mean, this really kind of strikes me
22 as odd. And you said it was vetted.
23 I mean, was this vetted through the
24 Attorney General's Office? Because having
25 politically-activated people create a non-profit 126
1 and giving money to certain entities to put up
2 call centers of people we don't even know if
3 they're State employees and if they're partisan,
4 how were they answering the phone, were there
5 transcripts, what information were they giving
6 out?
7 That's really -- I mean, would you accept
8 money from the Pro-Life Federation to set up a
9 drop box location outside of every church? I
10 mean, that wouldn't be right. It wouldn't be
11 right. So I'm really questioning this, and I want
12 to know who it was vetted by. Was the Attorney
13 General involved in saying this is an appropriate
14 use of private grant dollars?
15 I mean, those grant dollars could have
16 went to help with PPE for first responders on the
17 front line in the hospital networks or maybe to
18 help get the vaccine out because that's a total
19 mess, but this is -- this really is something that
20 I think we're going to need a lot of answers on
21 this. And if it was so important, why weren't you
22 asking for $16.5 million this year to get out the
23 vote and flying because I didn't see any airplanes
24 with banners in Carbon County. So I just think
25 that -- I'm really questioning that. 127
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I would ask
2 Director Mattis to -- let's, you know, I want to
3 make sure that we're absolutely responsive to your
4 questions with respect to the breakdowns and
5 information we can and how that's available. So
6 Director Mattis, just to the specifics of the
7 fiscal budget, can you speak to that?
8 I want to make sure that we answer the
9 Representative's question.
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
11 With that, I will -- Representative Doyle's time
12 is up, and I recognize Representative Tim O'Neal.
13 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: Thank you,
14 Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
15 You know, I just want to go back to the
16 questions you just answered a few seconds -- a few
17 minutes ago in regard to auditing of the election.
18 So you mentioned the risk management audit, the 2
19 percent county audit. Can you -- can you go into
20 a little bit more description about the process of
21 auditing?
22 Based on your answers, I' m not quite
23 clear of whether or not -- is this -- it sounds
24 like not every county participated in the audit.
25 Is it a voluntary audit? And exactly who are we 128
1 talking about as auditing this system?
2 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So let's speak
3 about the statutory audit. All counties have to
4 participate and meet the requirements of the 2
5 percent, right. And so how they get -- there's a
6 provision that requires the county board of
7 elections to conduct a -- sorry, I need some water
8 -- statistical -- there we go -- random sample of
9 at least 2 percent of the ballots cast or 2, 000
10 ballots, you know, whichever is fewer. And that
11 is something that they do prior to certification.
12 REPRESENTATIVE O'NEAL: Okay. So -
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So all counties
14 have to participate, you know, in -- in that
15 p rocess.
16 REPRESENTATIVE O'NEAL: Okay. So -
17 Secretary degraffenreid : The risk limit
18 audit pilots that we started -
19 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: If I understand
20 you correctly -- I'm just trying to really get to
21 my understanding of the process here.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay.
23 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: If I understand
24 you correctly in what you just said, two -- every
25 county has to audit two percent -- the own 129
1 election office of the county who administers the
2 election is conducting a 2-percent audit of
3 themselves; is that correct?
4 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yes. The
5 counties, according to the statute -
6 REPRESENTATIVE O'NEAL: Okay. So -
7 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- have to -
8 what they're auditing is the ballots that have
9 been cast in an election prior to certification.
10 representative o 'n e a l : Right. So they
11 audit themselves. In what realm of our lives do
12 we audit ourselves in any other situation?
13 I mean, what's the point of the Auditor
14 General at this point if we just -- we're just
15 auditing ourselves?
16 At what point does the Department of
17 State actually come in to audit the counties?
18 To me, this seems like a pretty backwards
19 process. You know, quite honestly, maybe we
20 should ask the federal government to past IRS law
21 where we all just audit our own tax returns.
22 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I want to also
23 add -
24 representative o 'n e a l : That doesn't seem
25 very effective to me, so -- 130
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Yeah, Deputy
2 Secretary Marks, could you -- can Deputy Secretary
3 Marks be unmuted so he can talk about the
4 statutory requirement that's been in effect where
5 counties, prior to certification, that they can
6 either do a random sample of 2 percent of the
7 ballots cast in an election or the 2, 000 ballots
8 again, whichever number is fewer, which is
9 statutory -- which is the statutory requirement
10 that counties have been following, which is, you
11 know, separate and distinct to what we are now
12 recommendi ng.
13 And that is using something that is
14 becoming more of a -- moving forwards the industry
15 standard with respect to a post-election audit
16 and -
17 REPRESENTATIVE O'NEAL: Okay. So -
18 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: -- however that
19 works. Deputy Secretary Marks.
20 representative o 'n e a l : One second. I
21 want to follow up on what you just said here. So
22 what you just said is the Department of State is
23 now recommending that we change our process
24 because it's insufficient? Is that -- that's what
25 I heard you just say. Do I have that correct? 131
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: There's a
2 different way. There's a different way. And
3 there are advantages to a risk limiting audit that
4 can be realized if we -- if we go, you know, with
5 that standard now. It's not something that's
6 newly created.
7 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: Just so I' m
8 clear -
9 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Other states
10 are always starting to leverage on uniformity -
11 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: So I' m clear on
12 the way that I'm referring to this. When you say
13 a risk-limited audit, is that the way we're
14 currently doing it or the way you're recommending
15 that we do it?
16 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: It's the way -
17 it's what we're now recommending -
18 representative o 'n e a l : Okay. So what
19 are the advantages of the risk-limited audit?
20 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I'm sorry. I
21 didn't hear you.
22 REPRESENTATIVE O' NEAL: What are the
23 advantages of the way we currently do it and why
24 is the Department of State now recommending we
25 change? 132
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Okay. Right.
2 So through experience and relying on research,
3 again, coming as following from the election
4 commissions in other states who have participated
5 in a more comprehensive audit that is done as part
6 of a statewide process, certainly transparent, it
7 allows -- it allows for more uniformity and
8 absolutely it allows for -- when you look at this
9 audit, would allow for the overall, like does the
10 person or candidate that prevailed, is it
11 consistent, you know, with, you know, the outcome
12 of the risk-limiting audit?
13 It is a statistical process that has been
14 looked at. It's being used in other states. It's
15 part of a work group recommendation to have
16 counties move towards, you know, a risk-limiting
17 audit as opposed to what is now in place in this
18 State, which is where the two counties, you know
19 just -- they get to choose whether it' s 2 percent
20 of ballots cast maybe from the one precinct as
21 opposed to something that's a little bit more
22 random. So I do believe there's opportunity,
23 right, to look at our auditing, our post
24 collection audit process to something that would
25 give, you know, hopefully give voters more 133
1 confidence in the process.
2 REPRESENTATIVE O'NEAL: Well, Madam
3 Secretary, thank you for your answers. I'm out of
4 time. I would just reiterate exactly what you
5 just said. The current process certainly seems
6 insufficient and we need to update it.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Next, Chairman
10 Bradford, if you have any comments?
11 Nope. You and me.
12 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Thank
13 you, Chai rman.
14 I realize earlier we had a discussion
15 about what is and what is not off limits at this
16 hearing, but I must tell you after listening to
17 all, but I believe five, of your members raise
18 questions about the just past election, it does
19 seem hard to believe that those rules are being
20 followed by both sides.
21 So I' m going to begin by asking a direct
22 budgetary question. My understanding is the law
23 firm of Holtzman Vogel Josefiak Torchinsky spent
24 about a million dollars undermining the integrity
25 of the just past presidential election. They were 134
1 -- their client in that was the -- was one of the
2 four caucuses. I can assure you it was not ours.
3 Was private counsel retained by the
4 Department of State to respond to these -- to
5 these lawsuits initiated by both the Senate
6 Democratic -- the Senate Republican and the House
7 Republican Caucus?
8 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Right. So yes,
9 the Department of State did have to use outside
10 counsel to help with just the -- my understanding,
11 just the out of the ordinary number of unusual
12 litigation that we were involved in in 2020. You
13 know, as everyone knows, Pennsylvania was very
14 much in the news. So yeah, there were a lot of
15 cases. And it is our duty to respond to any case
16 that is brought before us.
17 So yes, we did use, you know, outside
18 counsel with that.
19 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Do you know
20 how much money, Commonwealth money, was spent
21 defending these lawsuits, frivolous lawsuits?
22 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : Yes. I'm going
23 to check my budget information. I believe it was
24 somewhere upwards of $3.3, $3.4 million, just
25 based on outside counsel or litigation costs. So 135
1 I'm going to ask our Director of Finance and
2 Operations, if she could be unmuted, just to be
3 sure that I' m not -- my memory of looking at our
4 budget.
5 d i r e c t o r m a t t i s : Madam Secretary, that's
6 correct. The Department used a little over $3.4
7 million on litigation cases to date. There -- we
8 have 24 cases that -- that we are -- we have been
9 using the outside counsel for, so explaining the
10 costs. It's our understanding that some are
11 ongoing, but we also understand that it' s our
12 obligation to, you know, engage in this and make
13 sure that we're defending what's being brought
14 forth. So that's -- that's kind of the background
15 of where the funding is coming from.
16 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you,
17 Di rector Matti s.
18 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Thank you
19 for that.
20 Now, again, I believe that Representative
21 Davis, as he was about to conclude -- and I want
22 to thank the good Chairman because I know he did
23 want to extend him the time and there was a
24 misunderstanding. He was about to end his
25 questioning, Secretary, with a very simple 136
1 question that I think our new Auditor General
2 struggled with the other day, which was, do you
3 believe the just concluded election was a free and
4 fair election?
5 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: I do. I do
6 believe that it was. I support the efforts of our
7 counties, you know, who do the work, who did the
8 work for it, just every day and every week,
9 without any time off, because they were committed
10 to making sure that people could participate
11 safely in the process and that they understood,
12 you know, the new laws and everything. So do I
13 believe that we had a free, fair, secure, accurate
14 election? I do.
15 I support the fact that the Counties did
16 -- and this Department did everything that we can
17 to ensure that that would be -- that would be the
18 case.
19 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Well, for
20 most of us who recognize that the last couple of
21 months have been a pretty shameful time in the
22 democracy of our country, there's a recognition
23 that we in the legislature have an obligation to
24 support the work of local election officials at
25 the county and the State level. And I would just 137
1 ask you, what can we do, what should we do to
2 promote faith in these elections?
3 And parenthetically, not to extend the
4 question, but sometimes what masquerades as
5 legitimate budget oversight is really just an
6 extension of what we've seen for the last couple
7 of months, which is a pretty cynical attempt to
8 undermine faith in our elections.
9 s e c r e t a r y degraffenreid : So I can share
10 that my commitment, you know, for me is to
11 continue having the safe, secure, and accurate
12 elections while also looking for opportunities to
13 strive for efficiencies in elections
14 administration. So that is, you know, the reason
15 why, you know, we would say let's talk about
16 pre-canvassing, let's talk about giving counties
17 more time to make sure that they're methodical
18 with their processes with respect to, you know,
19 counting and proving ballots. Let's look at
20 opportunities of like same-day registration and
21 how efficiencies can be achieved with that, just
22 making sure that we do things on the front end
23 instead of the back end to make sure that people
24 who are qualified and eligible to participate in
25 the process can, you know, participate in the 138
1 p rocess.
2 Let's talk about, you know, in terms of
3 efficiency, efficiency in elections
4 administration, electronic poll votes, right. I
5 come from a state that absolutely leverages the
6 use of electronic poll votes. That, too, leads to
7 integrity of the process because counties will
8 have more time to take information about who
9 participated, like on Election Day, and build that
10 in and compare that to, not specifically the
11 results, but the number of ballots that went
12 through any scanner. And when you compare pending
13 voter history with the number of ballots cast,
14 they can achieve, you know -- they can realize
15 efficiencies and realize integrity of, like, that
16 reconciliation, that reconciliation process.
17 So I think electronic poll votes would be
18 something that the legislature could look for to
19 help counties strive to achieve efficiencies in
20 elections administration. And there may be some
21 other opportunities that, you know, we can talk
22 about, that I' m willing to work with you guys on
23 so that we can continue having safe, secure, and
24 accurate elections, you know, whether we're in a
25 pandemic or not. 139
1 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: I do want to
2 thank you because, whether it was the heroes in
3 Georgia who stood up to the President of their own
4 party, or folks like you in Pennsylvania who had
5 their work frankly undermined and criticized, in
6 ways that really did not speak to the best of what
7 should have been legitimate oversight and your
8 willingness to open the door for an honest
9 discussion about things we should do and shouldn't
10 do. And Democrats and Republicans have been doing
11 this, frankly, as long as this Republic has
12 existed, but it has never been done in a way to
13 undermine our elections.
14 And I go back to that litigation that was
15 commenced by the caucuses. And I read from
16 correspondence that comes directly from that use
17 of taxpayer money, which is particularly shameful,
18 correspondence from December 4th -- and again, I
19 want to thank the good Chairman opposite for not
20 signing onto these correspondence -- but a
21 correspondence December 4th to our federal
22 Representatives asking, in fact, stating, we the
23 undersigned members of the General Assembly urge
24 you to object and vote to sustain such objection
25 to the electoral colleges vote received from the 140
1 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania during the joint
2 session of Congress on January 6th, 2021.
3 So Secretary, you've already stated we
4 had a free and fair election. Let me ask you
5 this, is there any reason, any legitimate reason,
6 to believe that the 80,000-vote victory that was
7 awarded to one side -- and as Representative
8 Krueger said, regardless of what side we are on on
9 the blue-red divide -- is there any reason to
10 believe that this election was compromised in such
11 a way that we should disenfranchise Pennsylvania's
12 electoral votes to the electoral college?
13 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: So I think it
14 would be important because I am, you know, a
15 career elections administrator, and there, you
16 know, in this role, I know there's our regulatory
17 commission that also will be important to me, as
18 well, but let me just say from the heart, as an
19 elections administrator, it is our overall goal to
20 make sure that any outcome of any election,
21 regardless of the first contest on the ballot all
22 the way down to the end, that it absolutely is
23 accurate. And so you know, my response to that is
24 that when I look at, you know, directly that any
25 results -- and I see -- and coming from North 141
1 Carolina, right, I see a State that is very
2 similar to my old state, purple, right, if you
3 will.
4 And so you can go through the history -
5 and I've gone through the history of like election
6 results here in Pennsylvania, and even this past
7 election. You know, it's not just -- I know a
8 lot of time and attention is spent on a
9 presidential contest. As an elections
10 administrator, I don't look at, you know, I don't
11 care about party. I mean, I can't. I am
12 apolitical when it comes to elections
13 administration. I care about the process. I care
14 about if things are done correctly. I care about
15 improving the process, improving the technology.
16 But when I look at -- if I look at the
17 results, I see -- I guess they're called row seats
18 here in Pennsylvania. I believe four of them this
19 year, and they were split between Democrats and
20 Republicans. It just happened that the candidate
21 for the presidential contest, the prevailing
22 candidate, happened to be, you know, a Democrat.
23 But in 2016 -- I guess 2016, the Republican
24 candidate and, you know, the State row seats were
25 also split. 142
1 So I mean, when I look at that, I think
2 that's a further indication of integrity because
3 it shows that it' s the voters who are
4 participating. It's the voters who are making
5 their determination as to who they want to vote
6 for. I think it's my role and my job and, you
7 know, again, coming from an elections
8 administrator and someone who worked directly with
9 the counties last year, so that -- to do the work,
10 I think it' s important for us elections
11 administrators, local and State, to make sure that
12 the process -- if the process is fair, if the
13 process is carried out, if you're following the
14 law and your attention to detail with that, that
15 is what gives me confidence in the outcome of this
16 election, regardless of who happened to be the
17 prevailing candidate in any particular contest,
18 not just the presidential one.
19 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: Well, let me
20 thank you, Secretary.
21 And let me just kind of bring this to a
22 close by saying two things. One is, in a
23 subsequent letter also signed by, sadly, too many
24 members of this body on January 4th, addressed to
25 then-Majority Leader McConnell and Leader 143
1 McCarthy, asking -- and I quote, due to numerous
2 unlawful violations taken by Governor Wolf,
3 Secretary of State Boockvar, and the rogue State
4 Supreme Court, the balance of power has been taken
5 from the legislature, who by the U.S. and pa
6 Constitution sets the time, place, and manner of
7 holding elections. And then, it says in all bold,
8 and this is to the gentleman's points about all
9 audit, members who -- oh, they then ask for an
10 audit. That is their purpose.
11 They say, Members, we ask for more time,
12 given the fact that the U. S. Supreme Court is to
13 hear Trump versus Boockvar in the coming days. We
14 ask that you delay certification of the electoral
15 college to allow due process as we pursue election
16 integrity in our Commonwealth. And I won't
17 belabor the point. That's two days before the
18 insurrection that happened at our U.S. Capitol.
19 That insurrection was in part to delay the
20 counting of those electoral votes.
21 Now, again, we can have an honest
22 discussion about reform and we can have an
23 after-action review, but we're pulling very close
24 to going way, way too far. And we can lose our
25 democracy if we're not too careful --if we're not 144
1 careful. So let my just read the words of our
2 United States Senator who said -- let me find it
3 here -- these facts do not make President Trump's
4 comments in losing the 2020 election acceptable.
5 Going over some of the very things that we heard
6 here today. He began with the dishonest, systemic
7 attempts to convince supporters that he had won.
8 His lawful but unsuccessful legal challenges
9 failed due to lack of evidence. Then he implied
10 intense pressure on State and local officials to
11 reverse the election outcomes in their State.
12 One of those election officials was our
13 Speaker of our House. This has been a pretty
14 shameful couple months. We all put our names on
15 ballots, and we all know at 8:00 p.m., when those
16 ballots close, win or lose, we walk across the
17 aisle and we shake the hand of the other person
18 and we wish them well.
19 The very basis of that is faith in these
20 elections. People have fought and died for that.
21 We are better than pulling at the strings of the
22 democracy that is the base of this country we all
23 love. This has got to stop. Support for our
24 election officials is at the bedrock of doing
25 that. 145
1 Thank you, Secretary, for the work you
2 and your Department do. And thank you, Chairman,
3 for giving me the opportunity to speak. I do
4 appreciate it.
5 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Madam
7 Secretary, again, I want to reiterate that you
8 need to send over the grant information, the
9 contracts, the amounts, who got it, and how the
10 dollars were spent that you got from private
11 contractors or non-profit groups, as such that is
12 an important part that you need to do.
13 I again want to stress that this side of
14 the aisle had no interest in going back and
15 redoing the election today. Every question that
16 was asked had to do with how money was spent in
17 this election, which goes to how we appropriate
18 dollars for the upcoming election, as Madam
19 Secretary, you've talked about the needs of
20 updating the SURE System.
21 Look, this election is over. Sitting
22 down and making accusations against whether it' s a
23 President or whoever isn't going to get us to
24 being together. What has happened has happened.
25 Representative Krueger pointed out -- and 146
1 I give her credit for that -- is it's about
2 integrity. When voters, Republican and Democratic
3 voters were calling her, they were calling me and
4 they were calling every member of the legislature,
5 no matter what party they were in.
6 I got a call from friends of mine in
7 North Carolina, who moved there five years ago,
8 but received an absentee ballot application. I
9 know people in my district who were dead, got
10 absentee ballot applications. So when people see
11 these kinds of things, they naturally are going to
12 question the integrity of an election. And that's
13 why a lot of this stuff has happened, is because
14 people -- I' m talking about the public, not
15 politicians, but the public -- don't understand
16 whether truly there is corruption in the process
17 or not. They want answers. They want to make
18 sure that their one vote they have under the
19 American Constitution is important and being
20 counted and not being defrauded.
21 And when these kinds of things happen, it
22 creates those kinds of questions, which we
23 shouldn't have. Look, there are mistakes that are
24 made. Absolutely. It's going to happen. But my
25 friends in North Carolina didn't live in 147
1 Pennsylvania for five years. People that were
2 dead were dead for two, three years, and yet they
3 got these kinds of things.
4 And I think Representative O' Neal and
5 Representative Owlett mentioned about the audits.
6 If you're somebody who is concerned that your
7 candidate lost, you're going to question the audit
8 when it' s not done somebody independent or
9 somebody outside of the people who conducted the
10 election. And I think you talked about the
11 possibility that we may need to change those kinds
12 of things. So this is all about integrity. We at
13 the House of Representatives and legislature are
14 fully and totally responsible for how elections in
15 Pennsylvania are conducted, with you as the non
16 partisan person who's to make sure that those
17 wishes are carried out.
18 You know, the other thing that people
19 question, when I was growing up, my mom and dad
20 would go to vote, and my grandparents. Back then,
21 everybody cast their vote on a piece of paper.
22 And that piece of paper was counted by 11:00 every
23 night in every part of the Commonwealth of
24 Pennsylvania, including Philadelphia and
25 Pittsburgh. And today, paper ballots -- with 148
1 computers today -- are four and five days till
2 they're totalled. Again, creating that doubt that
3 somebody has doctored or played games with it.
4 It's not a question of whether they did
5 or didn't to a certain degree. The question is it
6 created doubts with voters. And we cannot, as a
7 democracy, allow people to believe that their
8 votes doesn't count like it doesn't in communist
9 China or Russia. People here want to have faith
10 that the people that are handling their elections
11 are doing it fairly. So that's why a lot of the
12 controversy. Forget the politicians on either
13 side who said whatever they said, you and I -- and
14 I say I, we the legislature -- need to make sure
15 these kinds of things never ever happen again
16 because if they do, we will see less and less
17 people in this country vote.
18 We've been struggling so hard for so many
19 years to increase voter turnout and people's
20 participation in the election process, but when
21 they lose faith in it, they don't participate. So
22 I want to thank you for being here today. I'm
23 very pleased overall with your answers, but I
24 think we have a long way to go in Pennsylvania to
25 restore the confidence of Pennsylvanians. 149
1 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Let's get to
2 work. I commit to you -- I commit to you that,
3 absolutely. Let's absolutely get to work. I
4 share a passion of making sure that all voters and
5 all citizens respect the process, but also have
6 confidence in the process. And I think together
7 we can have -- continue to have conversations that
8 we can get there together. So I just want to
9 offer that and thank you so much for your time and
10 attention today and giving this southern girl a
11 chance.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good,
13 Mrs. Secretary. I have full faith that you will
14 fix the mistakes that have been made and work to
15 make sure that a lot of these kinds of things that
16 were done -- I mean, just one last thing.
17 The previous Secretary kept changing her
18 edicts from day-to-day to the county commissioners
19 across the whole State. Every county got the same
20 different edict every day.
21 That confused county commissioners. They
22 were very clear in testimony that many of the
23 counties -- election bureaus and county
24 commissioners were very confused as to how to
25 handle the election. We have to make sure that 150
1 the people conducting the election have a clear
2 understanding of how the election is to be
3 completed or conducted in every county the same
4 way, so the voters in every county feel confident
5 the way they conducted in theirs is the way it' s
6 conducted in the others.
7 So with that, Secretary, again, I thank
8 you and your staff for coming before the Committee
9 today, asking our questions -- answering our
10 questions, I should say -- and we look forward to
11 working with you as we move through the budget
12 p rocess.
13 So thank you again.
14 SECRETARY DEGRAFFENREID: Thank you,
15 chai rman.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: The last
17 business we have today is since the Committee
18 cancelled tomorrow's hearing, the Committee will
19 reconvene on Monday, February 22 at 10 a.m. with
20 the Department of Environmental Protection. And
21 with that, this hearing is adjourned.
22 (Whereupon, the hearing concluded
23 at 4:14 p.m.)
24
25 151
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
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3 I hereby certify that the proceedings are
4 contained fully and accurately in the notes taken
5 by me from audio of the within proceedings and
6 that this is a correct transcript of the same.
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11 Tiffan
12 Court Reporter
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