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DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 13A - 10 a.m., Tuesday, November 3, 2020 ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC 495 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, November 3, 2020 The House met at 10 a.m. church's governance structure. Bill 300 continues the tradition of this Legislature playing a role in Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from legitimizing and codifying administrative procedures Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled and protections of institutions in this province. here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O United Church is the largest Protestant denomi- merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only nation in Canada, with approximately 2 million that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may adherents. The church has been a leading voice for seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and social justice in Canada for almost 100 years. United accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Church of Canada was incorporated in 1924 by an Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. act of Parliament. Please be seated. That same year, the Manitoba act was passed in ORDERS OF THE DAY this Legislature dealing with property and rights and PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS powers of the United Church in Manitoba. This means that any significant structural or administrative Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House changes made federally must be ratified through Leader): Good morning, Madam Speaker. provincial legislation. Could you please call for debate of second readings, Bill 300, The United Church of Canada At first glance, the original United Church of Amendment Act, sponsored by the honourable Canada Act was a simple piece of legislation. It was a member for Dauphin (Mr. Michaleski). private bill that incorporated three religious bodies: the Methodist, Presbyterian, and Congregational Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the churches in Canada. House will consider second reading of private Bill 300, The United Church of Canada Amendment Like many religious denominations across the Act. country, United Church of Canada is facing social, demographic and financial pressures. Membership SECOND READINGS–PRIVATE BILLS in the church peaked in 1964 at 1.1 million, and it's Bill 300–The United Church of Canada 'accline'–declined since that time. From 1991 to 2001, Amendment Act the number of people claiming an affiliation with the United Church decreased by 8 per cent, the third Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): I largest decrease in mainstream Christian denomina- move, seconded by the member for Assiniboia tions in Canada. (Mr. Johnston), that Bill 300, The United Church of Canada Amendment Act, be now read a second Church statistics for the end of 2018 showed time and be referred to a committee of this House. 388,363 members in 317,051 households under Motion presented. pastoral care, of whom 120,986 attend services regularly in 2,119 communities of faith representing Madam Speaker: Before we proceed, I wonder if the 2,774 congregations across Canada. As I said earlier, member happens to have his headset there. We're Statistics Canada has reported that approximately having difficulty hearing him in the House. 2 million people identify as adherents. Mr. Nesbitt: I was trying the headset and I can't make A new structure to address changes in the realities it work. I'll talk loud. of the United Church of Canada was first broached at the General Council in 2012. A committee was Madam Speaker: Okay. put in place to come up with general reorganization Mr. Nesbitt: Madam Speaker, I am pleased to proposals. A document with the suggested changes sponsor this private bill that will amend The United was approved for discussion with the entire mem- Church of Canada Act to reflect changes to the bership at the 42nd General Council in 2015. After 496 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 nearly three years of discussion and debate at the church to focus more of its precious resources on the congregational and presbytery levels, significant its global and community work and in promoting its changes to the church structure were confirmed faith. At its core, this reorganization will help the by the United Church's 43rd General Council in church focus on its mission of making a positive July 2018. difference in people's lives through faith and moral commitments that come with faith. Madam Speaker, one important change involves the United Church of Canada moving from four * (10:10) courts, as they are called–pastoral charge, presbytery, This legislation reshapes the church's governance conference and General Council–to three councils: with better decision-making, accountability and trans- a local community of faith or congregation, a regional parency, keeping the church's vision and mission council, and a national General Council. The United clear. The Canadian Parliament passed the federal Church of Canada believes the three-council model version of this bill in 'semptember' 2019. The Ontario provides a more agile and sustainable structure Legislative Assembly passed a provincial version of that better supports and enables the church's main this bill in April 2019. purpose of ministry and mission, and also reduces administrative costs. Madam Speaker, today I urge all honourable members in this Assembly to pass this important bill The church's national General Council will will unanimously and send it on to committee. be reduced from 68 voting and corresponding members to 18 in total. This will allow for the council Thank you. to work in a more agile and engaged way while Questions continuing to ensure representation by church populations from all across Canada. Madam Speaker: A question period of up to 10 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed A portion of Bill 300 outlines the conditions and to the sponsoring member by any member in the terms of how a majority of trustees of a congregation– following sequence: first question to be asked by a but only with the consent in writing of the regional member from another party, this is to be followed by council–could undertake to sell church land in a rotation between the parties, each independent either a public or private sale. This is a reality that is member may ask one question. And no question or happening in many areas of rural Manitoba as answer shall exceed 45 seconds. congregations disband and merge with other congregations, creating surplus property. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I just want to begin by thanking the member for bringing this bill forward An office of vocation, which has been described here for debate. to me as similar to a College of Physicians and Surgeons, would be established to handle personnel Certainly lots to talk about and lots to support matters involving clergy and other employees who here this morning, but I just wanted to begin by asking work for the church. Previously, this work would have about consultation. I understand this is brought been handled by volunteers on the ministry and forward by the United Church of Canada. But locally, personnel committee. I'm wondering if he can just talk about some of the churches in his own community, maybe throughout Madam Speaker, these amendments bring the the province, that he has had a chance to talk to. United Church of Canada's structure into the 21st century to meet the current needs of the Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Well, thank church. The church membership understands it no you very much to the member for Concordia for that longer has the volunteers or money to support its question. current structures and processes. It is important to As I stated, this was an eight-year process.
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