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Hansard of the Legislative Council If No One Raises the Issue at the Meeting of the Council

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Hansard of the Legislative Council If No One Raises the Issue at the Meeting of the Council LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 11695 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 26 June 2019 The Council met at Eleven o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. 11696 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 11697 THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN 11698 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 11699 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 11700 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) PAPERS TO BE LAID ON THE TABLE OF THE COUNCIL The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Report of changes made to the approved Estimates of Expenditure during the fourth quarter of 2018-19 Public Finance Ordinance: Section 8 Sir David Trench Fund for Recreation Annual Report 2018-2019 (including Financial Statements and Report of the Director of Audit) Report No. 21/18-19 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments Report of the Bills Committee on Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question. (Dr KWOK Ka-ki indicated his wish to raise a point) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, what is your point? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 11701 DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, last time I asked you about your remarks. You may have noticed that Mr Andrew WONG, former President of the Legislative Council, said that one of the culprits who made this incident such a mess is you because you set the deadline of 20 June. Will you apologize to the public, or apologize to the people on our behalf for bringing disgrace to the Legislative Council in this incident? This is the first point of order. Secondly, regarding the wording about government bills in the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"), there are only "withdrawal" and "postponement". There is never "suspension". To withdraw or postpone the Bill, the public officer, i.e. John LEE, needs to make an announcement here. Under what circumstances can the Government be allowed to employ hypocritical rhetoric, casually uttering the word "suspension" to muddle through? Being the President, could you lecture John LEE, Carrie LAM or Teresa CHENG, requesting them to act in accordance with RoP, rather than speaking and behaving at will? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If all the Members act in accordance with RoP, the Council will be fairly peaceful. Regarding your first question, as pointed out by me at the last meeting, it is not a point of order. As regards your second question, we have received the circular and noted that the Government has withdrawn the notice of resumption of the Second Reading debate on the relevant Bill. This practice is compliant with RoP. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, sorry, I did not catch your reply to the first question clearly. As I asked at the last meeting, will you apologize? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): As pointed out by me last time, this is not a point of order. During the press briefing on that day, I also explained the relevant practice. This is not a point of order. Please follow it up on other occasions. (Mr KWONG Chun-yu indicated his wish to raise a point) 11702 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWONG Chun-yu, what is your point? MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Cantonese): President, let me quote subrule (3) under RoP 64 "Withdrawal or Postponement of Bills": "The Member or public officer in charge of a bill may, in making an announcement for the withdrawal of the bill under subrule (2), address the Council on matters relevant to the withdrawal but no debate may arise on such an address." Regarding RoP 64 which was invoked less often in the past, President, I would like to seek your advice. In fact, between the Government's so-called "suspension" and withdrawal, we consider that you as the President of the Legislative Council should call on or arrange for the public officer to come before the Council to explain whether the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance ("FOO") has actually been withdrawn. In our RoP, there is only "withdrawal" and no "suspension". In respect of the provisions in RoP 64, I wish to see how the President will make a judgment and whether you will request the public officer to come before the Council to speak on the withdrawal of the Bill. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Earlier on, I have informed Members in writing that the Government has withdrawn the notice of resumption of the Second Reading debate on the relevant Bill. This practice is compliant with RoP. The Agenda item with which this Council is dealing right now is questions. Will you please follow up other matters on other occasions. (Mr AU Nok-hin indicated his wish to raise a point) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr AU Nok-hin, what is your point? MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): President, just now I noticed that you mentioned the Government's withdrawal of the notice. But the Government never used the word "withdrawal" in its statement. Moreover, when speaking in public, it often tells one version today but another the next day. I really wish to seek Secretary John LEE's advice, but just now, as soon as he saw that we were going to speak, he left the Chamber. What an interesting person this Secretary is. He just walked away and let it be. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 26 June 2019 11703 Nevertheless, I am baffled. What is the latest version of the Government? If, as you understand it, the Government has withdrawn the notice, does that mean it has withdrawn the relevant Bill? As far as I understand it, this is not what they said.
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