When You Mention the Gates Money, I Think One O
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RALPH NADER RADIO HOUR EP 243 TRANSCRIPT Anand Giridharadas Anand Giridharadas: When you mention the Gates money, I think one of the things that a lot of those folks don't realize is that they've done a lot of great work de-provincializing us in this country. They have given to Africa and done tremendous work in many African countries and they've given around the world. However, I think one of the things we're realizing under Orange Mussolini is that when America is rotting within, when you have so many people in this country convinced that this society is rigged and not working for them you actually end up electing a president who shatters the entire global order that all those African countries and countries around the world have to live in. And I think there's a case to be made that those African countries that Gates and Buffett and others have helped would actually be in better shape if some of that philanthropy had not happened, but we also weren't living in the Trump era, because the Trump era is tearing up the entire global order that those countries hugely depend on for peace, stability, security, prosperity. So I think some of those folks who have done an amazing job giving money overseas need to be much more invested in making sure we're not failing here at home because when we fail here at home in America, the whole world suffers. Steve Skrovan: Welcome to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. My name is Steve Skrovan along with my co- host David Feldman. And I understand, David, this past week you were down in Texas with Triumph the Insult Comic Dog talking to Ted Cruz and Beto O’Rourke. David Feldman: Yes, I got to see Ted Cruz and interesting thing, he went to Princeton undergrad and Harvard Law School. That's a toxic brew. Hi Ralph. Ralph Nader: Well, I mean I did the same thing, David, so don't over-generalize. And I want to point out before we go on to the rest of our program that I just put out an article called “Democrats: Headline America Needs a Raise Now Before the Election”. And the way the Democrats can get more lower- income people to vote is to tell them that they are able to vote for a raise long overdue. It's lucky for the big employers that they weren't required to give back pay so gutted by inflation and other derelictions of big business, the wage for millions of workers has become. Just go to vote for a long-overdue raise and vote for the candidate who will bring that to you. The minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, frozen by the Congress and the White House. You can make a difference. David Feldman: Remember when I used to ask candidates what the price of milk is? A great “gotcha question” should be … Ralph Nader: Yeah, they don't know. David Feldman: What's the federal minimum wage? I doubt they can tell you. Ralph Nader: Yeah. You know what their wage is, by the way? A hundred bucks an hour. That's if they work a 40-hour a week; they only work three days in Congress for most part and they spend it dialing for dollars in the afternoon. Steve Skrovan: We have a truly fascinating show for you today. Our guest is Writer and Political Analyst, Anand Giridharadas. He has written a book entitled, WINNERS TAKE ALL: The Elite Charade of Changing the World. He argues that we should not get too excited by the super-rich even the well-intentioned ones who devote considerable resources to changing the world, because most of them really don't want to seriously change the world that made them rich. It's not that they don't want to do good, it's just that the good they do is on the margins. They seem unwilling to change a system that does so much harm. And as always we will check in with our Corporate Crime Reporter, Russell Mokhiber and if we have time, we will continue our march through your listener questions. But first, let's talk to someone who is able to penetrate the inner sanctums of the New Gilded Age. Anand Giridharadas is a writer and an on-air political analyst for NBC News and MSNBC as well as being a visiting scholar at the Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute at New York University. He's a former columnist and correspondent for The New York Times, having written most recently the bi-weekly “Letter from America”. His latest book is entitled, WINNERS TAKE ALL: The Elite Charade of Changing the World. Welcome to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour, Anand Giridharadas. Anand Giridharadas: It's great to be with you. You know what Giridharadas rhymes with? Nothing, nothing. Ralph Nader: Eventually see what reaction there has been to your book. I have a similar experience with the work of political fiction that I put out a few years ago called Only the Super- Rich Can Save Us, in quotation and it was a story about how a number of enlightened billionaires led by Warren Buffett in the fictional context, decide they're going to take a year off and change the country, top-down, bottom- up. And they organized and paid for organizers and clean election parties all kinds of strategies--all the way to Washington and the Congress and the White House. And Warren Buffett liked the book so much that he invited me out to have a book signing at his gigantic annual gathering of shareholders of Berkshire Hathaway. So my experience has been that you get an interesting response from the enlightened rich people but when you put specific projects in front of them, for a variety reasons, they don't come forward. So Anand, what was the reaction of these philanthropists and these wealthy people to your book? Anand Giridharadas: I have to tell you, Ralph, it's been somewhat astonishing to me. As you know, writing a book is a lonely endeavor. This is of course a reported book so I spent a lot of time out in the field with these people trying to understand what rich people are really doing when they say they are changing the world and I went to Silicon Valley and I spent time on that cruise ship so that your listeners wouldn't have to with those 3,000 entrepreneurs and I interviewed a variety of folks. But I also spent a lot of time by myself writing. And when I have come out into the world with the book, the biggest surprise to me has been the openness, not universal by any means. There's a lot of resistance to this book, but I expected a wall of resistance from the people that I am indicting. I expected pushback and defensiveness and there's been some of that, but there has been to my happy shock--a kind of openness to the idea that many of the richest and most powerful people in our age are standing on top of an indefensible mountain and they don't know how to get down. And it remains to tell whether they're sincere in their desire to get down from the indefensible mountain. But every day I'm hearing stories and I have kind of my network of little spies all around the country who tell me about these hilarious moments. Someone told me the other day, a friend walked into Susan Buffett's office who does a lot of philanthropy for Warren Buffett. And, you know, sees my book on Susan Buffett's desk and there's some conversation about like, well, I guess we got to deal with this now, don't we? And the other day someone, was at a Goldman Sachs event, in California I believe it was, and the founder of Chobani Yogurt was asked what his favorite recent book was, and he said my book. And the Goldman Sachs interviewer very quickly moved on to what's your favorite food. And, Jack Dorsey from Twitter recently tweeted his to-do list, as he often does, and my book was on it. And I say that, not as the president would say, not in a braggadocios way, but because I am struck that actually thanks to the president, I believe, many privileged people are looking around at the society and realizing that if they are right in the assumptions they've held true for the last 30/40 years, this wouldn't have happened. You only get Orange Mussolini when a lot of us were wrong in our basic assumptions, our worldview, our reflexes. And so I am here to tell you, having spent the last two months doing three or four events a day all around this country including with some of these plutocrats--there is an openness right now to a rethinking of our deeper systems that I have not seen in my lifetime. Ralph Nader: What was it like going to the Aspen Conference and having the thoughts and articles and books that you've written; what kind of reactions did they give you? Anand Giridharadas: You know, the whole notion and, you know, Aspen is one of these places, Davos is another, where the rich and powerful gather to do some combination of business networking and world-saving. And the two are very mingled.