Volume 18 • Issue 1 • Spring 2018 IJCP

Academic Article ven while he was E imprisoned in the A Simulated Interview concentration camps, Frankl continued to with Viktor Frankl: develop his ideas. His landmark books ... Part 1 - Freedom & captured the agony experienced by these Responsibility prisoners on a daily basis, and how these By James C. Overholser, Ph.D., ABPP, Case Western Reserve horrific events changed University. Frankl’s views of life forever.

Ph.D. in philosophy with a focus on psychology and religion. Before the start of World War II, Frankl began practicing psychiatry in the shadows of Nazi Germany. Being raised Jewish, this was a tense time for Frankl and his family, as well as most people throughout Europe. Nazi soldiers moved into Vienna in 1938, and on September 25, 1942, Frankl was deported to the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz. He spent three years in four different concentration camps, and was released in 1945. He went on to publish numerous books and journal articles that explained how these horrific experiences had shaped his personal and Introduction capture these ideas in dialogue form. professional views. iktor Frankl developed a Throughout his career, Viktor Even while he was imprisoned in Vvision for psychotherapy that Frankl has made numerous the concentration camps, Frankl embraces broad issues relevant to contributions to the field of continued to develop his ideas. His life and death decisions. Derived psychotherapy, promoting an landmark books ”Man’s Search from his time spent imprisoned existential view that confronts for Meaning” and “The Doctor in concentration camps, Frankl the meaning in life. Viktor Frankl and the Soul” captured the agony developed a vision for helping was born in Vienna on March 26, experienced by these prisoners on people adjust to tragedy and loss. 1905, and he died September a daily basis, and how these horrific Frankl argued against the immutable 2, 1997. He lived most of his events changed Frankl’s views of power of genetics or environmental life in Vienna, Austria, near the life forever. Throughout the rest influences, favoring the power of historic homes of Sigmund Freud of his career, Frankl campaigned the mind and the importance of and Alfred Adler. Frankl studied against hate and terrorism, and a person’s attitude. The present medicine and earned his MD in shared his existential perspective. manuscript examines many ideas 1930, specializing in neurology According to Frankl’s view of described throughout Frankl’s career, and psychiatry. After the war, psychotherapy, an assortment of using a simulated interview to in 1949, he went on to earn a problems arise from the changes

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simulated interview. ounce piece of bread was our only had to go through food in four days” (Frankl, 1992, I the hell of despair Interview: p. 24). “Beatings occurred on the over the apparent An exploration of the existential slightest provocation, sometimes meaninglessness of views of Viktor Emil Frankl (VEF) for no reason at all” (Frankl, 1992, life, through total and interviewed by James C. Overholser p. 36). ultimate nihilism (JCO). JCO: What impact did these events JCO: I have found your writings to have on you? that pervade modern society. Frankl be quite inspirational. Thank you for encouraged clients to focus on meeting with me. You have written VEF: “No dream, no matter how the major aspects of life, death, about your experiences during horrible, could be as bad as the freedom, and responsibility. He has World War II. Maybe you can share reality that surrounded us” (Frankl, emphasized the value of searching how those experiences shaped your 1984a, p. 48). “We looked like for each individual’s personal life as well as your career. skeletons disguised with skin and meaning in life, and creating a life rags” (Frankl, 1984a, p. 49). “Life worth living. VEF: “I am a survivor of four in a concentration camp tore open There is a risk that Frankl’s camps, that is, concentration the human soul and exposed its original words and ideas may be camps” (Frankl, 1965, p. 54). “I depths (Frankl, 1984a, p. 108). neglected in graduate training spent a total of three years in four “The thought of suicide was today. The thoughts and words camps” (Frankl, 2000, p. 98). entertained by nearly everyone, if from several other pioneers in only for a brief time. It was born of psychotherapy have been captured JCO: How did the war affect you and the hopelessness of the situation, in real interviews with Albert Ellis your family? the constant danger looming (Overholser, 2003) and Irvin over us daily and hourly, and the Yalom (Overholser, 2005) as well VEF: “I had to go through the closeness of the deaths suffered by as simulated interviews with Carl hell of despair over the apparent many of the others” (Frankl, 1992, Rogers (Overholser, 2007) and meaninglessness of life, through p. 31). Alfred Adler (Overholser, 2010; total and ultimate nihilism” (Frankl, 2013). It remains important to 1981, p. 77). “My father died in JCO: These experiences sound respect the life and career of these Theresienstadt practically in my horrific. How did you get through experts, valuing the lessons they arms. My mother died in the gas years in these horrific conditions? have learned and shared through chambers of Auschwitz. My brother, their published works. These so I was told, perished in a mine VEF: “Through the right attitude” pioneers represent the legacy of of one of the branch camps of (Frankl, 1971a, p. 308). “Even our field. The present manuscript Auschwitz” (Frankl, 2000, p. 100). the negative aspects of human provides a condensed summary “I did not know whether my wife existence such as suffering, of the words and ideas behind was alive, and I had no means of guilt and death can still be Viktor Frankl’s existential ideology, finding out” (Frankl, 1992, p. 50). turned into something positive, presented in the format of a “I learned that Tilly had died with provided that they are faced many others after the liberation of with the right attitude” (Frankl, Bergen-Belsen” (Frankl, 2000, p. 1965, p. 57). “Through the right ven the negative 91). attitude unchangeable suffering E aspects of human is transmuted into a heroic and existence such as JCO: I am sorry to hear about these victorious achievement” (Frankl, suffering, guilt and events. What was your experience 1971a, p. 308). like, surviving the concentration death can still be turned camps? JCO: How did your time spent in the into something positive, concentration camps influence your provided that they are VEF: “We were cold and hungry, vision for psychotherapy? faced with the right and there was not enough room attitude for everyone to squat on the bare VEF: “It is necessary to ground, let alone lie down. One five- supplement psychotherapy by a

12 Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy Volume 18 • Issue 1 • Spring 2018 IJCP new procedure” (Frankl, 1956b, p. attitude, they can change their life. 60). “Logotherapy is that therapy eredity is no more centering on life’s meaning as well VEF: “Exactly!” (Frankl, 1969, H than the material as man’s search for this meaning” p. 34). “If we cannot change from which man builds (Frankl, 1962b, p. 95). “In every a situation that causes our himself. It is no more case man retains the freedom suffering, we still can choose our than the stones that are, and the possibility of deciding attitude” (Frankl, 1980, p. 8). or are not, refused and for or against the influence of his “Man always retains the capacity surroundings” (Frankl, 1955a, p. to take a stand toward whatever rejected by the builder. 79). “Every human being has the conditions he may have to face” But the builder is not freedom to change at any instant” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 8). “Man’s inner built of stonesx (Frankl, 2010, p. 66). strength may raise him above his outward fate” (Frankl, 1968a, p. JCO: So you believe that there 7). “Everything can be taken from potential for both good and for evil? are options even in extreme a man but one thing: the last of conditions when problems appear the human freedoms – to choose VEF: “Man is ultimately self- overwhelming? one’s attitude in any given set of determining. What he becomes he circumstances, to choose one’s has made out of himself” (Frankl, VEF: “Of course” (Frankl, 1961b, p. own way (Frankl, 1984a, p. 86). “If 1962a, p. 118). “Any man can, 5). “The first tenet of logotherapy we cannot change a situation that even under such circumstances, is freedom of will” (Frankl, 1968b, causes our suffering, we still can decide what shall become of him p. 8). “The freedom to take a stand choose our attitude” (Frankl, 1980, – mentally and spiritually (Frankl, toward conditions” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 8). “Where we can no longer 1984a, p. 87). “Man is free to p. 8). control our fate and reshape it, we choose his attitude in any given must be able to accept it” (Frankl, situation” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 8). JCO: But in some situations, a 1958, p. 32). person has no other option, no way JCO: But don’t you feel that we are out, nothing they can possibly do to JCO: I would expect that life in a all created by some mix of genetics change a bad situation. concentration camp would drag and environment? everyone down to their lowest point. VEF: “‘How can you say such a VEF: “This is not true” (Frankl, thing’” (Frankl, 2000, p. 39). VEF: “This is not true” (Frankl, 1966/2016, p. 8). “Man is by no “Man’s freedom is a finite freedom, 2010, p. 151). “The sort of person means a product of inheritance not freedom from conditions; his the prisoner became was the result and environment” (Frankl, 1955b, freedom lies in the potentiality for of an inner decision, and not the p. 24). “Heredity is no more than taking a stand toward whatever result of camp influences alone” the material from which man builds conditions might confront him” (Frankl, 1968a, p. 6). “We who himself. It is no more than the (Frankl, 1966/2016, p. 11). lived in concentration camps can stones that are, or are not, refused “Logotherapy assumes that man’s remember the men who walked and rejected by the builder. But mind is free to make choices.” through the huts comforting the builder is not built of stones” (Frankl, 1966, p. 361). “There are others, giving away their last always choices to make, every piece of bread” (Frankl, 1968a, day, every hour” (Frankl, 1968a, p. pp. 5-6).”Faced with the identical hose most apt to 7). “Even the negative aspects of situation, one man became a swine T survive the camps human existence such as suffering, while the other attained almost were those oriented guilt, and death can still be turned saintly status” (Frankl, 1955b, p. toward the future – into something positive, provided 24). “Man has both potentialities that they are faced with the right within himself; which one is toward a task, or a attitude” (Frankl, 1967, p. 141). “Do actualized, depends on decisions person, waiting for them you agree?” (Frankl, 1955a, p. 192). but not on conditions” (Frankl, in the future, toward a 1962a, p. 118). meaning to be fulfilled JCO: Okay, I agree. I often tell by them in the future people that if they can change their JCO: So you feel that humans have

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(Frankl, 1971b, p. 26). “In every define logotherapy by the literal moment, the human person is an not only behaves translation as healing through steadily molding and forging his M according to what meaning” (Frankl, 1967, p. 140). own character” (Frankl, 1961a, he is, but also becomes “’Logos’ of course is ‘meaning’, p. 7). “The conditions do not what he is according to more specifically, one’s personal determine me but I determine how he behaves life task” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 8). whether I yield to them or brave “A literal translation of the term them” (Frankl, 1961a, p. 6). ‘logotherapy’ is ‘therapy through “The son of the drunkard need or a person, waiting for them in meaning’ (Frankl, 1978, p. 19). not become a drunkard himself” the future, toward a meaning to (Frankl, 1962a, p. 117). be fulfilled by them in the future” JCO: So logotherapy helps clients (Frankl, 1978, p. 37). to focus on the important things in JCO: But there is such an emphasis life? today on biological factors and JCO: They must have been uplifting genetics research. to others. VEF: “Yes” (Frankl, 1969, p. 38). “I see the meaning of logotherapy VEF: “Do you see what is at stake VEF: “Some men lost all hope, but in helping others to see meaning here?” (Frankl, 1984b, p. 6). “We it was the incorrigible optimists in life (Frankl, 1997, p. 136). only have to remember how the who were the most irritating “Logotherapy insists that man’s conception of man as ‘nothing companions” (Frankl, 1984a, p. main concern is not to seek but’ the product of heredity and 53-54). pleasure or to avoid pain, but environment … pushed us all rather to find a meaning in his life” into historical disasters” (Frankl, JCO: So naïve optimism is bad, but (Frankl, 1963, p. 31). 1958, p. 35). “The gas chambers realistic hopefulness is helpful. of Auschwitz, that was the ultimate Would you say that your approach JCO: How much do you feel consequence of the theory that to therapy is similar to Rational- the therapist should focus man is nothing but a product of Emotive Behavior Therapy? on problematic behavior or inheritance and environment” understanding people? (Frankl, 1955b, p. 26). VEF: “What do you mean by this?” (Frankl, 1963, p. 34). VEF: “Man not only behaves JCO: Thankfully, the concentration according to what he is, but also camps have been closed for many JCO: Does logotherapy help clients becomes what he is according to years. What advice would you share to become more logical by reducing how he behaves” (Frankl, 1963, p. with someone who is struggling to a client’s irrational beliefs? 40). “Man is not only responsible endure extremely harsh negative for what he does but also for what life events? VEF: “It would be a grave mistake he is” (Frankl, 1961a, p. 6). … to think that in logotherapy the VEF: “There is … the possibility therapist applies “logic” to the JCO: That is an enigmatic of finding meaning even in an patient – as though he tried ‘to talk statement. What do you mean by inescapable, hopeless situation. By a patient out’ of ideas” (Frankl, being responsible for what a person the very stand we take toward such 1953, p. 10). “Logotherapy is as is? a predicament, we may rise above far removed from being a process it, transform it into an achievement. of logical reasoning as from being VEF: “What do I mean by that?” In this way, the tragic aspects of merely moral exhortation” (Frankl, (Frankl, 2010, p. 152). “A man only life may be turned into something 1961b, p. 5). could actualize himself by reaching positive” (Frankl, 1968b, p. 11). out for a meaning to fulfill or by JCO: You call your approach to reaching out for a fellow human JCO: How do we accomplish this therapy ‘Logotherapy’. What do you being to love” (Frankl, 1969, p. goal? mean by that? 38). “True human wholeness must include the spiritual as an essential VEF: “Those most apt to survive VEF: “What do I mean by that?” element” (Frankl, 1961c, p. 2). the camps were those oriented (Frankl, 1966/2016, p. 10). toward the future – toward a task, “For didactic purposes one could JCO: Okay. Let’s take short break

14 Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy Volume 18 • Issue 1 • Spring 2018 IJCP and we can continue our discussion A. Batthyany (ed.) Logotherapy Overholser, J.C. (2003). Rational- shortly. and Existential Analysis (pp. 7-12). Emotive Behavior Therapy: An Switzerland: Springer. interview with Albert Ellis. Journal of VEF: “Of course” (Frankl, 1961b, Frankl, V.E. (1967). Logotherapy and Contemporary Psychotherapy, 33, (3), p. 5). existentialism. Psychotherapy, 4 (3), 187-204. 138-142. Overholser, J.C. (2005). Group Frankl, V.E. (1968a). Experiences in a psychotherapy and existential concentration camp. Jewish Heritage, concerns: An interview with Irvin References 11 (2), 5-7. Yalom. Journal of Contemporary Psychotherapy, 35 (2), 185-197. Frankl, V.E. (1968b). The search for Frankl, V.E. (1953). Logos and meaning. Jewish Heritage, 11 (2), 8-11. Overholser, J.C. (2007). The central existence in psychotherapy. American role of the therapeutic alliance: Frankl, V.E. (1969). The cosmos and Journal of Psychotherapy, 7 (1), 8-15. A simulated interview with Carl the mind. Pace, 5 (8), 34-39. Frankl, V.E. (1955a). The doctor and Rogers. Journal of Contemporary Frankl, V.E. (1971a). Existential Psychotherapy, 37 (2), 71-78. the soul. New York: Bantam Books. escapism. Omega, 2 (4), 307-311. Overholser, J.C. (2010). Psychotherapy Frankl, V.E. (1955b). The concept Frankl, V.E. (1971b). Determinism and that strives to encourage social of man in psychotherapy. Pastoral humanism. Humanitas: Journal of the interest: A simulated interview with Psychology, 58, 16-26. Institute of Man, 7 (1), 23-36. Alfred Adler. Journal of Psychotherapy Frankl, V.E. (1956). From Frankl, V.E. (1972). The feeling of Integration, 20 (4), 347-363. psychotherapy to logotherapy. Pastoral meaninglessness: A challenge to Overholser, J.C. (2013). A true sense Psychology, 65, 56-60. psychotherapy. American Journal of of community has no boundaries: A Frankl, V.E. (1958). On logotherapy Psychoanalysis, 32 (1), 85-89. simulated interview with Alfred Adler. and existential analysis. American Frankl, V.E. (1978). The unheard cry Journal of Individual Psychology, 69 Journal of Psychoanalysis, 18 (1). for meaning. New York: Simon and (1), 7-23. 28-37. Schuster. Frankl, V.E. (1961a). Dynamics, Frankl, V.E. (1980). Psychotherapy on existence and values. Journal of its way to rehumanism. International James C. Overholser Existential Psychiatry, 2 (5), 5-16. Forum for Logotherapy, 3 (2), 3-9. Frankl, V.E. (1961b). Logotherapy and Frankl, V.E. (1981). The future of the challenge of suffering. Review of logotherapy. International Forum for James C. Overholser, Ph.D., Existential Psychology and Psychiatry, Logotherapy, 4 (2), 71-78. ABPP is a Licensed Psychologist 1, 3-7. Frankl, V.E. (1984a). Man’s search and Professor of Psychology at Frankl, V.E. (1961c). Religion and for meaning, revised. New York: Case Western Reserve University existential psychotherapy. The Gordon Washington Square Press. in Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. He Review, 6, 2-10. Frankl, V.E. (1984b). The meaning serves as a researcher at Frankl, V.E. (1962a). Basic concepts crisis in the first world and the hunger the local Veteran’s hospital, of logotherapy. Journal of Existential crisis in the third world. International and he provides outpatient Psychiatry, 3 (9), 111-118. Forum for Logotherapy, 7 (1), 5-7. psychotherapy through a local Frankl, V.E (1962b). Psychiatry and Frankl, V.E. (1990). Facing the charity clinic. As a practicing man’s quest for meaning. Journal of transitoriness of human existence. clinical psychotherapist, he relies Religion and Health, 1 (2), 93-103. Generations, 14 (4), 7-10). on evidence-based practice with Frankl, V.E. (1963). Existential Frankl, V.E. (1992). Man’s search a cognitive-behavioral orientation. dynamics and neurotic escapism. for meaning (4th ed.). Beacon Press: However, while teaching courses Journal of Existential Psychiatry, 4 Boston. on psychotherapy, he developed (13), 27-41. Frankl, V.E. (1997). Man’s search for an interest in Existential Analysis Frankl, V.E. (1965). The concept ultimate meaning. Reading, Mass. and Viktor Frankl’s views on of man in logotherapy. Journal of Perseus Books. Logotherapy, an area that seems Existentialism, 6 (21), 53-58. Frankl, V.E. (2000). Recollections: to be neglected in this age of Frankl, V.E. (1966). Time and An autobiography. Cambridge Mass: manualized treatments. responsibility. Existential Psychiatry, 1, Perseus. 361-366. Frankl, V.E. (2010). The feeling of Jim can be contacted at Frankl, V.E. (1966/2016). Questions meaningless. Milwaukee: Marquette [email protected] and answers, June 30, 1966. In University Press.

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