The Skating Lesson Podcast Transcript Four Continents Men’s Recap

Jenny Kirk: Hello, and welcome to The Skating Lesson Podcast! I’m , a former US ladies competitor and a three-time world team member.

Dave Lease: I’m David Lease, I was not on the world team as you know by now! But I am a figure skating blogger and a current adult skater.

Jenny: In this video, we’re going to talk about the Four Continents Championships, particularly the men’s event, which took place last weekend in Osaka Japan. And right now you’re looking at the results on your screen. Kevin Reynolds from won the gold medal followed by , Han Yan, , , and all Americans heading out the top nine – in ninth place.

Absence of , Canada

Dave: Yes, and I think – notably, Patrick Chan was not here. He chose not to compete here after the national championships. I think it’s interesting that he’s not here. He hasn’t been the dominant force this year that he was last year, even though he did have mistakes last year as well. But he chose to really regroup. Many felt that he perhaps felt that he was one-upped by Kevin Reynolds at their nationals. Kevin did so well there, and it looks like Patrick is trying to refocus. Jeremy Abbot chose not to compete here – he had a lot of back issues this year, and he chose to rest, recover, and get ready for the world championships*.

*correction on blog – note, I mistakenly said that was going to rest for Worlds. I meant to say that he is going to rest and recover for next season

Joshua Farris, USA

Dave: And one person that was really passed over for Four Continents was – they’re sending him to junior worlds again. And I wanted to ask Jenny her opinion on this – we actually haven’t discussed this she told me to save this for the air. So – I want to know if you think that it is bad to Joshua Farris’ career that he was not chosen to go to Four Continents. He wasn’t given a Senior Grand Prix in the fall. He actually had tweeted something and then it was taken down really quickly that he was disappointed not to get a Senior Grand Prix last year. He was second at Junior Worlds, second at the junior Grand Prix Final, he’s going back to junior worlds. I want to know – do you think it hurts his Olympic champions to really be labeled as a junior skater the year before the Olympics.

Jenny: Oh, you mean his Olympic chances? I don’t – I think there is going to be pressure on him to go to junior worlds – when you were second the year before, going back there is only one spot that you want! I think that’s a lot of pressure, but I also think that he could really deliver there, have a moment and winning that world junior title could set him up well. It is tough that they didn’t send him to Four Continents but I don’t see it as a detriment to his career. I think if he’s able to go to junior worlds and skates really well and then follow it up next season with some clean skates, great skates on the Grand Prix, he can ride that momentum and try to make an Olympic berth next season. So I don’t think it’s bad at all – and I also – you mentioned Jeremy Abbot not coming for Four Continents, choosing to stay at home and rest. And I think that was definitely the best decision.

Kevin Reynolds, Canada, Four Continents Men’s Champion

Jenny: But as we look to the men who were in Osaka this past weekend, Kevin Reynolds – we talk about his being a champion coming off a strong skate at Canadian nationals. What did you make of him? Dave: Canadian nationals were one week ahead of US Nationals, so he had another week to kind of rest and recover as opposed to some of our – Max Aaron – and it seemed like that really helped him. He skated with a lot of energy. He delivered beautiful quads in both the short and the long. And I think Kevin Reynolds is riding that wave – he surprised a lot of people by doing so well. He backed up his performance at Canadian nationals, which frankly I think elevates him into a whole ‘nother level going into the worlds. He has now legitimized his great performance with a big win. He is something who is riding that wave, and I was really impressed most by not his quads but that he seems to be getting his style together. A year or two ago, Kevin Reynolds was someone with ridiculous costumes, who they seemed to be trying to – improve him artistically. And it was off. The programs weren’t great, the costumes weren’t great, the packaging was wrong. And it just looks like this year, it’s coming together. And he’s maturing, he’s maturing mentally, he’s maturing his quads…

Jenny: I think he showed up at this event and seemed like he was hungry to be the champion. He skated, he held himself like a champion. He – it’s so impressive, I know you wanted to go into his quads, but the fact that he can do multiple quads in the short program! And he has the build of – it’s similar to , whom we interviewed on our show, just very slight build. Conversely, I think that may hurt him in terms of – he doesn’t have a lot of power on the ice. He doesn’t have that muscular strength, that big build, and I think that that’s one area of his skating that he can work on. But his consistency – what’s unique about his jumping, too, is that he almost delays his rotation. He doesn’t get into the snap on his quads. So, you think, is he going to pop, what’s he going to do? And then, before the ending, he’s able to really get those four rotations, three rotations on his triple axel complete. And I think again, his strength is just his style, his artistry, and definitely this season his consistency. So, as we look ahead to worlds, different points that are going to be important for Kevin Reynolds are: • Riding that wave He’s skating so well toward the latter half of this season. Enjoy that, continue to keep up the consistency. • Deliver when it counts • Be hungry for a top five finish One of the things that really helped him at Four Continents is he went in, and it seems that he wanted it! He wanted that medal, he wanted to win. And he has to have that same motivation and attitude heading into worlds. • Ignore the Canadian media Because they’re going to be all over him, particularly having the event in their home country. So just ignore it, focus on his job, go and deliver the goods.

Yuzuru Hanyu, Japan, Four Continents Silver Medalist

Dave: Yeah, and I think looking next at Yuzuru Hanyu, the silver medalist here. He has been such an emerging star for two, three, four years now since he won the junior world title. But we’ve seen Hanyu all season. He has these goods, he has beautiful jumps, great knees – some of the best knees in skating to pull out some of these landing. But there’s – at times it looked like perhaps a lack of stamina, but it looks to be like a lack of focus. You know, he switched coaches, and it almost looks like the pieces are not – they’re almost there, but they’re not all there, and it’s just the mind – and he’s now competing for gold. He wasn’t competing for gold before. And it seems like there are some problems. I know that had problems like this the 1997 season. They were growing pains, he got over them for the Olympic year, he obviously had a wonderful season that year. And I think with someone like Hanyu, I see similarities between them. One thing I will say about Hanyu is that he’s got this great flexibility, and I don’t know if his feet are really big compared to the rest of his body, he’s so slender – but I don’t know. There are certain different – not everyone wears the same brand of skates. And his skates look really boxy and really big and it cuts off his line. He almost looks like he has these club feet when he’s on the ice. It could be his brand of skate where it looks really square. And it’s cutting – it’s killing his line because he always has these club feet and nothing ever looks finished off. Earlier in the season, his coach said that he needs to work on pointing his feet, pointing those toes. I think he does need to do that, obviously, because even when he does a great Biellmann spin with great flexibility, the line is not there. It’s like sloppy, and he might need to change the skates. Jenny: One of the things that I found really interesting in the short program – he popped his combination, he popped his triple lutz-triple toe – but it didn’t affect the flow of the program. We talked about during our nationals recap show that sometimes the program components – they don’t reflect if they have a pop or a mistake in a short program, it does affect the flow of the program. And didn’t see so much of that in the short program, which was really a positive and is difficult for skaters to do. Conversely, though, in the long program, he popped that lutz again, and this time it did affect the excitement and the energy. It seems like his long program – he loses that wind and the momentum toward the end. There isn’t that fire and that passion. So I think for him – he has the talent. He obviously has the quads, he has the technique, it’s just about focus and really taking himself seriously to the next level particularly as we head into the Olympic season.

Dave: Yeah, he seems to really enjoy skating his short program. It really comes across – Jeff Buttle choreographed it. It looks like he really loves it – it’s a little bit different. And it looks like it’s a program he believes in. The long is a bit more generic for a long program. Notre Dame de Paris – can be great music. It looks a little , but not in the same – Johnny had the polish that Hanyu almost has but doesn’t have. And it just doesn’t seem like he really believes in the long as much – I think he needs two really special programs next year if he wants that Olympic gold medal. For him, his keys to success going into worlds:

• Focus All the way through both programs. We know he can do that lutz. We know he can do it, he can’t pop it, he can’t be making these errors. He has three jumping passes in the short, eight to get through in the long. He can’t be falling on spins. We’ve seen every mistake under the book from him this season despite usually being on the medal podium. • Two clean programs • Time at the top There’s time in skating. Now he’s competing for gold, I think he needs to get used to that in the men’s field, it’s usually a big jump. These men usually don’t rise as quickly as the ladies, and for him, he just needs a little bit more time. • Polish

Now what do you think about Max Aaron?

Max Aaron, USA, National Men’s Champion

Jenny: Well obviously he had a disappointing short program here placing tenth. But rebounding in the long program – again, repeating his meritorious long program that we saw that similar skate at nationals. The biggest thing for me, though, with Max Aaron – obviously, he has the technique, he’s a credible skater in terms of his speed on the ice, his attack. But that program components – you saw the drop, he’s down to sevens internationally compared to nines at nationals. And I think unfortunately the sevens reflect where his skating is today. I’m not a fan of his short program. I like what they’re trying to do with it which is using kind of that techno music, trying to make it so that they can enhance whatever artistry they can pull from him. I think it matches his personality. But his music gets really monotonous at the end. In the long program – there’s a lot of mohawk, back cross, reverse step, mohawk, back cross, reverse step. And as I was watching it, I thought – he could learn from Hanyu, the edges, the in-betweens – it’s really lacking particularly in his long program. It’s a lot of telegraphing the jumps – the jumps are great, but that second mark isn’t there. And I understand that he isn’t going to be a – never going to be an artist on the ice. But I think perhaps long-term if he were to switch his choreographer, he needs a choreographer that’s going to bring out what he has because there is a spark to him, and he has that consistency, and I see that fire. But he needs programs that reflect that. What do you think?

Dave: Yeah, I go back to his marks at nationals, and I think he deserved his win. But I do think that USFS and the judges were looking to promote whatever skater could do the . Max showed he could do it earlier in the season in the B-competition in the US in Salt Lake City. And he was really bumped up into the nines for components, you know, pushing nines for components. He actually got into sixes and low sevens here, and mostly in the low sevens, but that’s a really big difference. And when we talk about griping about nationals scoring, you have to be accurate with both marks. You can’t just give [break in audio] artistic marks because it really winds up lowering the results of the skaters who do have that second mark and do have that advantage of the great artistry and being more balanced. It pushes a jumper up perhaps higher than they would be and maybe sends the wrong skaters to worlds. I think Max, he deserves to be there, but the jumps are really his only weapon at this point. I think the spin positions aren’t great. I think with the long – it’s a masculine program, the in betweens are not there, but at least they’re trying to do something with him. But it’s just not there.

Jenny: And there’s – I don’t mean to interrupt – but you talk about his spins. His camel spin – he doesn’t get to the 90-degree angle, his leg is never up. And there’s a moment in his long program which you just talked about where the music changes and he is reaching out to the audience and it just seems like the choreography – there’s no feeling behind it whatsoever. And I just – I wanted at that moment to get some emotion from him. Continue, I’m sorry.

Dave: And there are so many great coaches at his rink. One of his training mates, Alex Johnson, was someone who maybe didn’t stand out a season or two ago, and at nationals this year had the performance of his life because he’s working with Tom Dickson, and it’s been a complete makeover in terms of his style. Sometimes you have a program and a style and it makes the jumps easier. And I think for Max, he needs to discover that artistry. He doesn’t have that artistic sensibility, and maybe he isn’t an artsy person.

Jenny: And that’s okay!

Dave: But he needs to mask it. And it’s okay, but you know, we’re not expecting everyone to be some fantastic artist. But he really does need to improve with that level. Consistency will help a bit with those marks, but he needs to think about the makeover for next season.

Jenny: I agree. So looking ahead to his keys to success heading into worlds: • New choreographer long-term • Polish those programs before worlds Get more of those in-betweens if he can add it, particularly in his long program • Deliver jumps: his only weapon? • International feedback vs. nationals Those components at nationals probably were very inflated • Think about the makeover

Heading into the Olympic season, I think again the short program what they’re trying to do and even with the long is in the right direction but it needs to go a little bit further.

Ross Miner, USA, US National Silver Medalist

Jenny: Next skater from the , Ross Miner. Disappointing finish here. What did you make from how he skated here at Four Continents, Dave?

Dave: I think Ross Miner is at a crossroads. He made the world team which is fantastic for him, he had a really good skate at nationals. I see him as someone who has outgrown his current situation. This is his third year on the world stage. He went to worlds in 2011, he was the alternate last year, he’s going back, but while that’s great, I don’t see him moving up that much at the world championships and I think if you’re not moving forward, you’re really falling behind. And I think for Ross, it’s great that he is trying the quad, he wasn’t successful here. But I think his technique, the style, everything – his coaches are good, you know, they got him to where he is, which is on the world team so they’re obviously not doing a bad job with him. But I think if he wants to move forward, become a national champion, become an international medalist, really try for a top five finish and go for that medal, which it seems like he is a very hardworking kid and a very competitive kid – I think he needs that next level of coach. That finishing coach, that Tarasova, that Frank Carroll, to really work with him on the details, on bringing a program to the ice with technique. Jenny: Yeah, you talk about technique and we see in the short program missing that combination that quad salchow and also the triple axel. You see on this quad salchow it’s very swingy. And Mark and Peter, his current coaches, they teach that circular technique. It’s very reminiscent of what we see in a Russian technique whereas Frank Carroll is very linear. A lot of American coaches like to teach that linear technique. And what happens on a salchow like that when you get around – there’s no hope for catching it because your arms are going ahead of your body – you saw a little bit with some of the ladies, , about the ladies champion . But he really needs I think a coach that is going to rework that technique – make it more linear. Triple axel – it’s a really unique technique, and when it works for him it does, but it’s really scary that takeoff because he’s going around that circle and you’re going to get outside the circle, you’re going to get away from yourself. It makes it really difficult to catch those landings.

Dave: And he drags that right leg into the jump. It’s reminiscent of his coach Mark Mitchell’s triple axel, frankly – it’s not great technique. And I don’t think it’s going to help him in the long term. And I think – obviously, he’s a talented jumper.

Jenny: Really talented. And talented, you talk about – hard worker, you can tell he has that competitive grip, fire, consistent skater for the most part. But yeah.

Dave: I think he just needs an upgrade! When you’re in school, you don’t have the same teacher every single year. You know, you have your middle school teacher, you have your freshman year, your sophomore year, and then someone brings something else, maybe to your writing or to your mathematics or something. And I think Ross has kind of been with these coaches for a while now. And I think it’s – he got everything he is going to get from them. Honestly believe it. I think it’s time to look at the next – who can bring that next level of polish, who can improve that technique a little bit because he’s someone who, he seems to have a good mind at competition. He’s pretty consistent, he’s good at rotating in the air. But it’s the entrances, and I think it something where that axel is scary, and his things here, the salchow and the axel, that really was his downfall here. And the second mark – his programs, I just don’t find them to be inspired. I think that he doesn’t have – he’s not not you know getting to the proper camel position like Max Aaron, like he’s doing a good camel spin, but nothing stands out with Ross. And a lot of these competitors that he’s competing against with the men – there are now men who bring it artistically. In the men’s field, you can almost forget…

Jenny: Hanyu and Takahashi, or Reynolds. These are skaters who have that extra umph. I think that [Ross] is the kind of skater who could bring that. He does have that desire and he has a good line on the ice, it’s just the programs are falling short a little bit. So heading into worlds, what od you think are his keys to success, Dave?

Dave: Honestly, I think he needs to look around. I don’t want to get shot here! But: • Coaching change long-term If Evan is injured, I think he needs to get on a flight to Los Angeles and work with Frank Carroll because I think that that could help him • Tweak that technique Especially the axel. He is doing the quad sal now, but he needs to do it every time • Forget the three spots next season

He has the talent to deliver at nationals – he has delivered at nationals. The US men are a long shot to get three spots under the best case scenario. There is just so much talent around the world, we saw the European Championships – the men were landing quads left and right in the final group. If those men deliver, the US men don’t have a chance of getting three spots. So they shouldn’t even think about it – worry about next year when next year happens. And really just go in, don’t even think about it.

Daisuke Takahashi, Japan, Japanese Silver Medalist

Jenny: Yeah, just skate those clean programs. And finally, came to this event – really disappointing skate. Seemed like – I just want to do a disclaimer, I trained with him for a couple of years in . I actually went to his birthday party, and he was just this other skater and I remember didn’t know what to get him! I was really like – he didn’t speak English, and…

Dave: Did you get him hair gel? [everyone reading this, please get that…]

Jenny: I got him a necklace, and I thought is that a little bit – you know, getting a guy a necklace from Abercrombie, but it seemed like he liked it! He’s a really sweet kid, and I just personally really enjoy him. But it seemed at this competition, he didn’t have that fire. And it seemed that he was almost tired in a way. The short program was mired with mistakes, the technique, the quads in the long program not rotating those jumps, not getting backwards – it’s worrisome heading into worlds. It just seems like he doesn’t have that spark that we saw in previous seasons. And I worry for him heading into the world championships after this event and Japanese nationals.

Dave: I feel for him last year – many people felt that he was robbed at the world championships or at least underappreciated in terms of his component scores. They felt that he gave his performance and that Patrick chan didn’t have the emotional connection that you get from a Takahashi performance. Honestly, I keep going back to the fact that at the height of his career, he won 4CC in 2008 with this amazing performance – he had the cyber-Swan that year. Then he was injured the next year – I believe he injured his knee. And it seems like that injury impacted the rest of his career. He has never seemed quite as consistent with his jumping. His edges are fantastic. They are some of the best I think we’ve ever seen. He’s someone that can make me forget that I’m watching an IJS program! I can’t stand IJS programs – when I watch Takahashi, I buy in. He’s much – he’s a lot! He’s a lot to handle, a lot of hands, a lot of costumes, he’s always on and moving, but either you love it or you hate it. I choose to love it, personally, and I think he gives it to you, he’s going for the judges with his programs this year. But the jumps sometimes are not around, and you have to wonder – is it his body? Earlier in the season, he looked a little bit fresher. Here, he’s not as young as he was four years ago. And you have to wonder, is his body breaking down slightly? He’s been around for a long time at the top. And I think the human body can only withstand so many quads, so many falls on quads, so many missed triple axels, so many landed triple axels. So with him – I do get the sense with him that his days at the top could be somewhat numbered. I think he’s giving everything he has every time he goes out to win. And we saw that he won the Grand Prix Final. He might have – but he’s not someone I think that where everyone is clean, I don’t know if he’s going to win this year. I think that there’s some younger guys with some phenomenal jumping ability doing three quads – he doesn’t do three quads. You feel for him because I think he’s not on an upward slope.

Jenny: Yeah, well – I was going to say heading into the event, I’m sure he is going in hungry for that win. And really what it’s going to take for Takahashi is to: • Rotate those jumps We saw in the long program those quads were not rotated. He needs to get backwards on those landings. • Reignite fire • Forget past success Doing so well in previous events, he has to take this world championships as a fresh event • Skate from the heart Like you said, Dave, he has that passion. He has the skating skills that really make you forget that you’re watching an IJS program. And he needs to find that fire within to forget past mistakes, forget past injuries. And really skate hungry and from his heart.

So all-in-all, I would say a pretty good men’s event. Definitely looking forward to the world championships. We are going to see Patrick Chan and some of these skaters coming back and European skaters as well, so that’ll be a whole ‘nother show for us to talk about. But we thank you for tuning in. Again, you can leave your comments below. E-mail us if you have anything else you’d like to add. We appreciate your feedback and all you insight as well.

Dave: As always, we’d like to remind you to hold an edge…

Together: And look sexy! Bye, guys!