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Committee Meeting of ASSEMBLY TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE "Testimony and discussion of ideas on how to address gas price problems" LOCATION: Student Center Ballroom DATE: September 22, 2005 Rowan University 10:00 a.m. Glassboro, New Jersey MEMBERS OF COMMITTEE PRESENT: Assemblyman John S. Wisniewski, Chair Assemblyman John J. Burzichelli Assemblyman Jack Conners Assemblyman David R. Mayer Assemblywoman Mary T. Previte Assemblyman Brian P. Stack Assemblyman Jeff Van Drew Assemblyman Francis L. Bodine Assemblyman John C. Gibson Assemblyman Joseph R. Malone III Assemblyman Kevin J. O’Toole ALSO PRESENT: Nancy M. Lipper Christopher Jones Jerry Traino Maureen McMahon Assembly Majority Assembly Republican Office of Legislative Services Committee Aide Committee Aide Committee Aides Meeting Recorded and Transcribed by The Office of Legislative Services, Public Information Office, Hearing Unit, State House Annex, PO 068, Trenton, New Jersey TABLE OF CONTENTS Page Scott A. Weiner Faculty Fellow and Director Center for Energy, Economic and Environmental Policy Rutgers University 3 John C. Ponticello Plant Manager ConocoPhillips Bayway Refinery 24 Tom Skok, Esq. Senior Counsel ConocoPhillips Houston, Texas 36 William Dressler Executive Director New Jersey Gasoline Retailers Association 66 Pat Fiumara Associate Director New Jersey Gasoline Retailers Association 67 Craig Copeland Mobil Dealer 67 Balkar S. Saini Independent Dealer 67 Richard K. Weinroth, Esq. Representing New York Mercantile Exchange 79 Daniel Brusstar Director Energy Research New York Mercantile Exchange 80 TABLE OF CONTENTS (continued) Page Nancy Toll Perilstein, R.N. Director Nursefinders, and Representing Home Health Services and Staffing Association of New Jersey 109 APPENDIX: Testimony Submitted by John C. Ponticello 1x Testimony by Daniel Brusstar, and Testimony by Dr. James Newsome, and “A Review of Recent Hedge Fund Participation in NYMEX Natural Gas and Crude Oil Futures Markets” submitted by Richard K. Weinroth, Esq. 8x Statement Submitted by Nancy Toll Perilstein, R.N. 37x lb: 1-112 ASSEMBLYMAN JOHN S. WISNIEWSKI (Chair): Good morning, everyone. Would you please take your seats? I’d like to call this meeting of the Assembly Transportation Committee to order. I’m John Wisniewski, the Chairman. We have members of the Transportation Committee, and we have individuals who are also substituting in. I’d like to welcome Assemblyman Joe Malone, Assemblyman Jack Conners, Assemblyman Jeff Van Drew, Assemblywoman Mary Previte -- who normally don’t sit on the Committee, but are filling in for other Committee members who could not be here today. I just would like to do a couple of housekeeping details. This is being recorded to prepare a transcript. So everything you say will be preserved for a long time to come. Unlike normal committee meetings, though, I do not believe this is being broadcast on the Internet. So you won’t be able to go home and bring it up on your Web browser. We’re trying to conclude this meeting by 1:00 p.m. If you have written testimony, we would appreciate receiving a copy of that written testimony, and we would appreciate it also, therefore, that if you have spoken testimony that you do not read the written testimony. We can read that ourselves, but just try and paraphrase. I would ask that we not try to duplicate testimony that’s already been given, but to expand on it. And with that, I would like to offer to Assemblyman David Mayer the opportunity to do an opening. Assemblyman. ASSEMBLYMAN MAYER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 1 Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you and members of the Committee for coming here to South Jersey, bringing this issue here for our residents to comment on and for us to further explore, on what we began last week. I’d especially like to thank those of you who have come long distances to the 4th Legislative District. I also wanted to thank Rowan University for hosting this event. Rowan is a big part of our community here, in Glassboro and the 4th Legislative District, and I want to thank them. This is a very, very important issue that really needs to be further explored so that we can ensure that we’re doing everything that we can for New Jersey consumers. I found last week’s Committee hearing to be very informative. Certainly there are questions that still need to be asked and answers that still need to be given. And that is something that I am hoping for this afternoon and this morning. So, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for bringing this Transportation Committee to the 4th Legislative District, and I thank the members for your participation today. Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN WISNIEWSKI: Thank you, Assemblyman. On behalf of the Minority, Assemblyman Gibson. ASSEMBLYMAN GIBSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me add my welcome to this Committee -- and a Committee that I’m a member of -- to South Jersey, to compliment the Committee on very timely hearings that are taking place on this very important subject. Last week’s hearing resulted in a number of disclosures and information. It was very enlightening for the Committee. And hopefully, many of the near-term 2 solutions that -- some of which the Minority Party has already introduced and has in the hopper, can be transferred to this Committee, so that action can be taken and the consumers of New Jersey can take the benefit of not only the Minority Party’s ideas, but the entire Committee’s ideas. So, again, I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to welcome you to South Jersey and to proceed with this very informative hearing. ASSEMBLYMAN WISNIEWSKI: Thank you, Assemblyman -- both of you, for your openings. One of the issues that the Committee heard about and discussed at the last meeting was the fact that consumption is, in part, one of the issues that drives the price of the commodity -- of the crude oil and of the gasoline that we all use in our vehicles. With us today is an individual who has a long career in State Government. He had been head of the Board of Public Utilities when it was the Department of Environmental Protection and Energy a few years back. He’s now with the Center for Energy, Economic and Environmental Policy at Rutgers University. I give you Scott Weiner. Mr. Weiner. S C O T T A. W E I N E R: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and the members of the Committee for this opportunity to participate. It’s good to see many of you and to be back in this forum again. And I appreciate and am honored by the invitation to share some thoughts with you. I want to start out by concurring with those who would characterize the issue as a demand-driven market. It is one of the factors, 3 but it is a very important factor. And as we think about options and policy opportunities for government action, I think we have to concentrate on the fact that more than ever the dynamics of the oil market are shaped by the global demand for oil and not just the boom-and-bust cycle of production, which had been, historically, a driver. And all of us have been around long enough that we know that whenever there’s a market fluctuation in any commodity, government is often called upon to address the impacts upon the state’s consumers. Yet when the discussion turns to long-term market placed strategies, to address some of these in a more wholistic way, government is often told that it has no role in that long-term vision and that the marketplace should be left to itself to determine its own winners and losers, and policies and outcomes. I would like to begin by sharing some thoughts this morning on a view on the role for government in addressing, specifically, gasoline pricing and other transportation fuels. When dealing with marketplace commodities, supply and demand do count. And the opportunity that is at hand for state government, I believe, and particularly New Jersey State Government, resides on the demand side of the equation. And in thinking about first, price signals, I know I’ll be echoing comments of some others, including my colleague Clint Andrews, who you met with last week. We should be sure that we’re providing accurate price signals for market and consumer response. Distortions and abuse in supply and demand dynamics should be aggressively pursued to protect against price gouging and the impacts of other market distortions. Activities under a heading of consumer protection, public information disclosure, such as this Committee is doing, is invaluable. 4 Tax policy is also a tool in our collective tool chest. Everybody is familiar with the idea of tax incentives for certain types of vehicles, hybrid vehicles, other types of vehicles. There are other opportunities to provide financial or fiscal incentives. We saw, around the country, a quick move towards looking at the gas tax. It’s appealing, as a short-term solution. It’s fraught with dangers that I know this Committee has considered and discussed, so I’ll be one of those who add a cautionary note. But demand incentives can also produce prompt results. And they can produce prompt results by directly impacting the consumption of petroleum products, in this case specifically gasoline, both in the short-term and the long-term. Initiatives that come to mind are, again, ideas like credit on high-efficiency vehicles; or the State procurement, more importantly, of high-efficiency vehicles, regardless of the technology, whether it be hybrid or any other technology that produces the efficiency. The power of public procurement should never be underestimated.

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