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Jazz Inside Magazine ISSN: 2150-3419 (print) • ISSN 2150-3427 (online) June-July 2018 – Volume 9, Number 4

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CONTENTS 4 Odean Pope by Ken Weiss INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS Visit these websites: CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 20 Pat Martino JazzStandard.com 13 Calendar of Events Jazz History FEATURE 26 Famoudou Don Moye by Ken Weiss Jazz.org

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OdeanOdean PopePope Feature ForerunnerForerunner ofof thethe SpiritSpirit InterviewInterview && PhotosPhotos byby KenKen WeissWeiss

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OP: I think my health is more important. I chose INTERVIEW my health over recognition because, as you know, INTERVIEW most of my peers have left the planet.

JI: When asked if you thought of yourself as a hard bop or free jazz player in the past you an- Odean Pope swered, “I like to think of myself as one of the forerunners of ‘the spirit.’” Would you explain Forerunner of the Spirit that?

OP: To be one of the forerunners of ‘the spirit’ Interview and photo by Ken Weiss Six [Enja, 1996]. means to me that I’m always striving to be the frontrunner of what’s happening today. Not the

past, but the present, as well as future. I feel that Tenor saxophonist Odean Pope (b. October 24, Odean Pope: For the most part, that started in I’ve studied so many different kinds of concepts 1938; Ninety-Six, South Carolina) is best known Europe. and I’ve had the opportunity to sit on bandstands, for his greater than two decade membership in the be at recording studios, and to talk to so many great Max Roach Quartet, as well as for his unique voice JI: I looked up odeon. Do you know what it musicians, that I have acquired quite a bit of on his instrument. A master of circular breathing means? Ironically, odeon derives from ancient knowledge in terms of what direction I’m going to and multiphonics, Pope’s trademark ‘foghorn’ Greek and stands for a building used for musical go into. Being a forerunner means that you are one blast reaches deep into the soul of the listener. performances. That’s so very apropos. of the ones who is reaching certain aspects of your Heavily influenced by the sounds of the Southern craft being number one. Baptist church choir of his youth, Pope moved with OP: I didn’t know that.

his parents to Philadelphia at age ten where he JI: Finding your own unique voice on the saxo- found an extremely jazz rich territory with future JI: Published reviews of your work over the past phone was a career quest for you and you certainly jazz legends such as John Coltrane, Lee Morgan, 15-years or so typically open with something to the accomplished that. How did you pursue that goal? Benny Golson, Jymie Merritt, Jimmy Garrison, effect that you are, “One of the most underappreci-

Philly Joe Jones, the Heath Brothers, Archie ated jazz musicians of your generation.” How do OP: It’s very strange because ironically, when I Shepp, McCoy Tyner and Bobby Timmons. He was you explain that? was 25, I took all the records and recordings out of especially influenced by the obscure and eccentric my house. I just wanted to concentrate for the next pianist Hasaan Ibn Ali, who also caught the atten- OP: I think mainly because all my peers - Lee few years [on my sound]. I thought maybe it would tion of Max Roach. Pope was a member of the Morgan, the Heath brothers, Bobby Timmons, and take one year but it ended up taking me at least 10 Philadelphia group Catalyst in the early to mid- the list goes on, went to New York in the mid-‘50s. years to get a sense of what I wanted my sound to ‘70s, which merged jazz and funk and presaged the I went to New York along with them but I decided be, as opposed to going the traditional way of work of later jazz fusion bands. He is an accom- to come back to Philadelphia and I think that’s the sounding like someone else. I was really determine plished leader with a number of recordings by his main reason I didn’t get the recognition I should to reach my own voice. unique Saxophone Choir band, which features nine have gotten. The only person I know who got some

saxophones and a rhythm section, as well as per- international recognition while living in Philadel- JI: Many musicians use circular breathing and forming in quartet and trio settings. A strong com- phia was Grover Washington Jr.. multiphonics [playing several pitches at once] but you arguably use these techniques more than anyone else. Explain your interest in these techniques “… when Trane got the opportunity to go with and how you see them fitting into your music.

Miles Davis, he asked me to replace him [in OP: The interesting thing about circular breathing is it allows one to play long phrases and to generate Jimmy Smith’s group]. I told him, ‘You’ve got to high intensity to create ideas and things that you have acquired that takes an amount of articulation be kidding me,’ because I was no way ready to and expression to play, and to play long phrases. The way I use circular breathing is to play long play with Jimmy Smith. He said, ‘Look, don’t phrases as opposed to playing short phrases and it allows me to play, maybe, two choruses without taking a breath. I can play for half an hour without never use the word can’t. Always say I can do it. taking a breath. The person who really taught me circular breathing was a piano player by the name Take that word can’t out of your vocabulary.’ I prac- of Eddie Green when we played together in the group Catalyst. He used to play the melodica and ticed with him on Jimmy Smith’s repertoire and he used circular breathing. All of the people I used to ask before him would tell me all kinds of different gave me very good information on all the tunes.” ways which were not right. I asked Rahsaan Ro- land Kirk and we talked about circular breathing but I never got the full understanding of it from poser, his songs have memorable melodies and are him. Fortunately, Eddie Green knew the process augmented with his superior arranger skills. Pope JI: Why did you choose to remain in Philadelph- and technique of circular breathing [and shared it was the 2017 recipient of the Mid Atlantic Living ia? with me]. Legend Award. This interview took place on Janu-

ary 19, 2018 at his home in the Olney section of OP: That’s a very detailed issue, nothing to do JI: So Rahsaan Roland Kirk didn’t want you to Philadelphia. with New York, but just the scene that was happen- know how to do it? ing during that period so I decided to come back to

Jazz Inside Magazine: Your first name is regular- Philadelphia. OP: Well, you said that. ly misspelled as Odeon in the press. It’s even print-

ed that way on the disc of your recording Ninety JI: How important is public recognition to you? JI: How about your use of multiphonics?

6 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 mass choir, about 40 people in the choir. At a very gonna come in and kick all of your butts!” He said Odean Pope early age I was speaking and singing in the church. to get something else to play so we started to check I would speak on holidays and sing with the choir. out other compositions. Benny Golson would also I used to play the Jew’s harp and the regular harp, give me a lot of information on a lot of different and at a very early age I was asking myself, ‘What things. Finally, I met John Coltrane because he OP: I find multiphonics interesting because it cre- instruments could I use to depict the big, massive lived not far from my parents’ house. He lived on ates a lot of energy and intense moments where the choirs that I was exposed to?’ First I started on the 33rd Street and we lived on Colorado Street which audience all of a sudden hears three or four tones piano, and after a short while I said, ‘This is not the was between 17th and 18th. He used to frequently be coming out of one horn that makes them sort of instrument I want to play’ and I stared on the clari- coming to see Benny Golson or other musicians in jump and stand back. I work with the multiphonics net, but it wasn’t for me. The Earle Theatre [in that neighborhood like Sonny Fortune. We met quite a bit, in fact I have a tune called Philadelphia] used to host groups by Duke Elling- early on and when John was in town. We used to “Multiphonics.” It allows you to extend chord ton, Count Basie and Lionel Hampton, they would go over to [pianist] Hasaan Ibn Ali’s house two or changes or to create chord changes, and I got those come in and perform for 10 days in a row. When three times a week to practice, which was like go- fingerings from playing oboe. Oboe has different Lionel Hampton came to town with Johnny Griffin ing to one of the highest universities in the whole false fingerings and to be able to play multiphonics, you have to be able to use all kind of different fingerations in order to make three or four notes at “[Hasaan] did make a recording under his the same time. own name in 1965 with me and [bassist] Art JI: You’ve said in the past that when playing, you create an image in your mind of walking into a Davis and [drummer] Khalil Madi but it was never dark room with strings. Would you talk about that? released. Now there’s some talk about releasing OP: I thought for many years about what concepts and what ideas could I use to make my playing it … they say that tape was lost in a fire but more orchestral and flexible, more complex, more creative. What could I base my concepts on when I recently somebody found the tape and it may improvise and when I write? I was sitting up one night and an idea came to me around two o’clock be released. I was contacted by Atlantic in the morning – suppose you walk into a dark room filled with strings and whatever string you pull, you can write or play a concept with that Records about that since I’m the only living string and make it compatible with every other string you pull. I think the important thing in crea- artist from the recording session. That was the tivity is to have a combination of concepts and ideas going parallel as well as contrary to one an- only recording date that Hassan ever had …” other, and to also make the parallel and contrary concepts compatible, and these strings to me were and Arnett Cobb in his orchestra they impressed world because all of the information we were look- concepts. Every string in that room was a concept me so much in terms with what they were doing, ing for and trying to reach, Hasaan Ibn Ali had all for me to utilize and also to make something more how they were playing, how they would walk of the information. As a matter of fact, Hasaan profound than I had before. through the audience, and have people walking created the Triangle Major 7, which I think later on behind them, loving what they were doing. I really Trane got credit for but that was Hassan’s creation. JI: You were born in a small South Carolina town liked that so I asked my mother if she would buy called Ninety Six that currently sports a population me a saxophone, which she did. After a short while JI: You also used to practice with Lee Morgan? around 2,000. How did Ninety Six get its name? I got a teacher. I studied with some very great teachers and I found out that saxophone was going OP: Yes, we used to play duets all the time in my OP: Ninety Six is definitely on the map. A few to be my voice. basement. At one time, we had a group with Lee years ago, the mayor of the town put my name up Morgan, Kenny Rodgers on alto, myself, Tootie in a few places around town saying, “We are fortu- JI: You moved to Philadelphia at age 10 and soon Heath, Jimmy Garrison, and I think Colmore Dun- nate to have a great artist from Ninety Six, South found yourself surrounded by future jazz stars that can on piano, and later on we started rehearsing Carolina.” As far as how it got its name, you’d were your age and just a bit older. Would you talk with Hasaan Ibn Ali. North Philadelphia was a have to research that. [The town’s website reports about your neighborhood and the Philadelphia place where all the great musicians were. Philly Joe that, “Most likely, Ninety Six received its name scene at that time? Jones, Benny Golson, John Coltrane, Hasaan Ibn when Indian maiden Issaqueena (Cateechee), rode Ali, Bubba Ross, and the list goes on. Richard and her horse, ninety six miles from Keowee, the capi- OP: During that time it was Jimmy Garrison, he Bud Powell lived in Willow Grove and I used to tal of the Cherokee nation to the outpost to warn of was in the North Philly neighborhood as well, and see them periodically. Eddie Green was taking impending war by the Indian natives.”] we used to play a lot together. I also played with lessons from Bud Powell. During that time there Spanky DeBrest. I used to play a lot with bass was just so many great musicians around, and they JI: The Southern Baptist church figured promi- players, I’d get them to come over to my mother’s were very willing to share their information with nently in your early years and tailored the way you home and we would play. And from that experi- the younger musicians. I was fortunate to be raised eventually crafted your music. It’s well document- ence I began to branch out and meet a lot of differ- at that time because I’ve learned a whole wealth of ed that at age eight you listened to the church choir ent musicians. Benny Golson was living two blocks detailed information about the instrument as well and imagined what it would sound like to have away from me. When I was around fourteen I as of improvisation and writing my own composi- saxophones replace the singers. You didn’t start on formed a band with Rudy Richardson, bassist Tony tions. saxophone until age thirteen, so did you know at Williams and drummer Ralph Langley and we used eight that you would pursue saxophone and a saxo- to practice all the time. As a matter of fact, we JI: Would share some memories from those early phone choir? played “How High the Moon” so much that one days with the other young musicians that went on advanced player by the name of Bobby Fontaine, to fame? OP: The Saxophone Choir was inspired through he was a great alto player who died at a very early the Baptist church where it was mandatory that age and played like Charlie Parker, he came by and OP: Here’s one about Lee Morgan. Willis Toll had every Sunday you go to church. My mother was a said, “Look, if I come past tomorrow and you guys a workshop every Monday night down around 22nd schoolteacher and she played the piano in the big are playing “How High the Moon,” I’m personally (Continued on page 8)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 7 enced by what he was doing and how he was doing He was greatly influenced by Monk, Elmo Hope Odean Pope it. I mean he took me by surprise. I just worried and Bud Powell, but he had his own identity. I him to death. I was there every day. He never had a think he had more technique, more flexibility, and day job. He would get up in the morning and start his ideas was just like the sea. He had ideas as deep (Continued from page 7) playing at 9 o’clock. His father would bring some as the sea. I mean I never heard anybody, even and Walnut and he would bring an out of town star breakfast to the piano, so between 9 and 9:30 he today, play like that. like Sonny Stitt or Gene Ammons and use the would eat something, and then he would play from rhythm section from Philadelphia with people like 9:30 to 12. His father would then bring him a little JI: The only way people might know of Hasaan Tootie Heath, Jimmy Garrison and Sam Dockery. lunch, maybe some fruit to the piano, and he would Ibn Ali is by way of the Max Roach recording The This particular night, Lee Morgan, I think he had eat. After that, we’d play a couple games of chess Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan just turned 17, and we went down to the jam ses- and then we would practice up until 4-5 o’clock. [Atlantic, 1965]. Why didn’t he record under his sion. Sonny Stitt was the guest artist for that partic- I’d be at his house at a quarter to 9 every morning own name? ular night and Lee Morgan, who had brought his and we would practice. I’d bring fruit for lunch. horn, asked Sonny Stitt if it was possible for him to His mother was a domestic worker. She would OP: He did make a recording under his own name play something and he said, “Yes, come on up. So bring him a couple packs of cigarettes - Viceroys in 1965 with me and [bassist] Art Davis and what do you want to play,” and before Lee Morgan was the main brand during that period. She would [drummer] Khalil Madi but it was never released. could say anything, Stitt said, “Let’s play give him a couple dollars and then he’d get dressed Now there’s some talk about releasing it. Rahsaan “Cherokee.” I’ll play the melody and you play the - he always spent the day playing in his bathrobe. Roland Kirk was trying to get it released but he first solo,” not knowing that he was going to play, We both would get dressed and go out to 2 or 3 passed before it happened. They say that tape was instead of playing the melody in B Flat Concert, houses in the community. There were people with lost in a fire but recently somebody found the tape which is the standard, he played it a half step pianos in their house who would let us play and and it may be released. I was contacted by Atlantic above, which is B Concert. So Stitt played the mel- give us a couple dollars and some hot tea. So this Records about that since I’m the only living artist ody for “Cherokee” in B Concert and when it came was like our school. We did this for maybe four to from the recording session. That was the only re- to the solo, Lee Morgan was unaware that it was in five years and then Trane started to come in and we cording date that Hassan ever had and the reason the key of B and he started sputtering, sputtering, started to do it with Trane but he would never go to he didn’t get the recognition was because he stayed and finally he just put his horn down. That was a the houses with us. He would just practice during in Philadelphia. He never went to New York. He very embarrassing moment for Lee and when that the day because he would have other activities was content to stay at his parents’ home and prac- happened, we all started playing “Cherokee” start- during the night that he would do. This was a real tice every day. Nobody ever gave him gigs except ing in B Flat and going through all the keys. So that learning process for me. To not only be able to for me when I would get a gig. was our study for the next couple years. Sonny Stitt learn a lot of tunes, because he’d play a lot of sent us to school to be able to play a combination standard compositions and add his own chord JI: So the question remains, what happened to him? He had the backing of a star in Max Roach and had been featured on a major label recording So Stitt played the melody for “Cherokee” in that presented his original compositions.

OP: I think what happened shortly after he did the B Concert and when it came to the solo, Lee recording as a leader was that he got incarcerated. He called me up and said, “Odean, I’m not gonna Morgan was unaware that it was in the key of be able to go to the mix session. I’d like you to go mix the LP.” I told him I would and before the mix B and he started sputtering, sputtering, and date came, he made a telephone call to New York and asked Atlantic Records if they would extend a finally he just put his horn down. That was a loan to him. He needed additional money. When they found out that he was incarcerated they just very embarrassing moment for Lee and when put the LP on the shelf and it never got released. I think that and the influence by other activities other than the music is what really destroyed his whole that happened, we all started playing career. He ended up dying young. I think he was 49. “Cherokee” starting in B Flat and going through JI: He got out of prison? all the keys. So that was our study for the next OP: Yes, but his mother and father got burnt up on couple years. Sonny Stitt sent us to school to my birthday at their home on 2406 North Gratz Street on October 24, 1980. He went to one of the recreation centers for the homeless and when he be able to play a combination of different keys.” died, they only found my telephone number on his body. They called me and said I was his only con- of different keys. structures, and he would pass them on down to me. tact and asked if I could make the final arrange- Most people didn’t feel comfortable playing with ments for him. So I called [a super fan of Hasaan’s] JI: Pianist Hasaan Ibn Ali had the most significant Hassan. There was a place called the Woodbine in Boston and he gave me a thousand dollars to early influence on you around 1960-65. Club where all the musicians in that period would make the last rites for him and that was the end of meet at every Saturday after all the clubs let out at that. OP: One day when I was around 13, I was in my 2:00 AM. They’d all meet there and have a jam parent’s basement practicing and somebody session. When Hassan would get up on the piano, JI: Hasaan sounds very much like Thelonious knocked on the window and I opened it and he all the horn players would get off the stand. But I Monk on the Roach recording. said, “My name is Hasaan Ibn Ali. What are the was determined that I was going to play with him possibilities of you coming around to practice with and that’s why I practiced with him every day so OP: Right, but there was a difference if you listen me? Can we get together?” I had not heard of him that I could hear his harmonic, rhythmic and me- to it carefully. The technique is different. Hasaan but I said, ‘Of course, I like to practice.’ So when I lodic structures. Hassan was one of the greatest. had flawless technique. Monk had technique too first went over to his place, I was so greatly influ- I’ve never heard a piano player play like Hassan. (Continued on page 10)

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To Advertise CALL:Experience 215-887-8880 ResultsJune-July 2018 In Jazz 24-48 Inside Magazine Hours!  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com CALL 215- 887-8880 9 a very difficult instrument to play in tune all over of stress and if you weren’t really flexible, it could Odean Pope the instrument. By practice, you gain a sensation in really take you to another place. your fingers and you can get the saxophone to sound very round with all of the details. This morn- JI: You had the opportunity to join Art Blakey and (Continued from page 8) ing I played scales for about 90 minutes and I’ll the Jazz Messengers? but he didn’t have the kind of technique like play more later. Scales are mandatory for me. Hasaan. Hasaan could play extremely fast, very OP: Art Blakey, shortly after I went with Max, complex things, and he had his own identity. JI: How did you come to replace Coltrane in the asked me to come with his group but I told him I Jimmy Smith band around 1955? was working with Max and didn’t want to split. JI: Apparently, Hasaan had a tainted reputation around town and was known to push other pianists OP: I spent a lot of time with Trane, practicing JI: There’s a good story about the first opportunity from the piano bench so that he could play. with Hasaan Ibn Ali. The gig he got with Jimmy you got to play on stage with Max Roach. Smith wasn’t a permanent gig, Jimmy just called OP: Of course, he was doing that all the time. I Trane to fill up a few tour gigs that he had. So OP: [Laughs] That happened at Pep’s in Philadel- witnessed it so many times where we would go to when Trane got the opportunity to go with Miles phia around 1966. Hasaan Ibn Ali and Max Roach places and he would just walk up on the bandstand Davis, he asked me to replace him. I told him, were very close. Hasaan used to go up to Max’s and push the piano player off and start playing. ‘You’ve got to be kidding me,’ because I was no house and play and Max would record each ses- And see, they respected him so much they didn’t way ready to play with Jimmy Smith. He said, sion. Hasaan sometimes would show up at unusual resist, they would just get up and play. He was “Look, don’t never use the word can’t. Always say times. It could be two o’clock in the morning and known for that. I can do it. Take that word can’t out of your vocab- he’d want to play the piano, and regardless of what ulary.’ I practiced with him on Jimmy Smith’s time he showed up, Max would open the door for JI: Is it true that when Hasaan saw that you were repertoire and he gave me very good information him and tape record it. On this particular day, also studying oboe he suggested you use some of on all the tunes. Jimmy had about 15 tunes that he Hasaan came to me and said, “I’m giving you a the oboe fingerings on tenor which, as you men- would play over the course of a night and most of little head’s up. Max is in town next week so why tioned earlier, helped you with difficult overtones the tunes I was able to memorize. I played with don’t you practice a little bit more and I think you and multiphonics? Jimmy for close to two months and that was very and I go down and we sit in with Max.” I said, ‘Are unique and very educational, not only musically. you sure about that?’ He said, “Odean you’re ready OP: Yes, he asked me when I was doing the oboe, Jimmy was highly educated in terms of what he to do that.’ So I practiced and practiced and, I’ll what fingerings were different on the oboe from the wanted to do and how he wanted to do it. He was a never forget this, it was a beautiful Saturday day saxophone. I told him about the false fingerings genius, I’ve never heard anybody play the organ and Pep’s was packed. What happened was that at and he said, “Why don’t you apply some of those like him. He was so fluent and original. He was one the second tune of the first set, Hasaan asked Max fingerings to the tenor saxophone.” So that’s when of the first organists that was swinging. Playing if we could play something, which he agreed to. I started getting different sounds on the saxophone, with him for two months gave me a big umbrella to Now Hasaan, of course, could play any tempo in- like two or three notes at a time and the “foghorn,” work under and I’m still working under some of cluding the most ridiculous, fast tempo you could that’s what I was really known for, the “foghorn.” those things right now. do, which is what Max did. Max said, “We’re go- He greatly influenced me about doing many things ing to play “Cherokee” and they started playing on the saxophone, things that I’m still doing today. JI: What was your experience with Jimmy Smith at really fast. Kenny Dorham looked over to me and that young age? He was known to be demanding. said, “Do you know what we’re playing?” I said, JI: Are those oboe false fingerings that you do a ‘Is it “Cherokee,” and he said, “You got it. Look, rare technique for saxophone or do others use OP: I knew Jimmy Smith before I worked with this is the introduction, I’m going to give you the them? him. He worked in town with Don Gardner. I knew cue when we are supposed to come in.” We played him before he played the organ. He was playing a the melody and Kenny said, “I’ll let you take the OP: I’m not saying that I was the only one using thing called the organum, which was something first solo,” but by time it came my turn to solo, it them at the time, but I used them from the oboe and that you would put on the piano and it would get an was so fast that I sputtered and sputtered. I was just then I started using other ones. In fact, there’s a organ sound. He was nice to me because I was very reduced so I finally stopped playing. The music book by Larry Teal on saxophone methods that young and he saw that I was really trying to do was just so intense that it made me tighten up. I had teaches different fingerings above the altissimo something different as well as trying to play his played that song many times but never at that tem- range. But I was studying these things on my own. music. po. When I got off the stage I was so embarrassed. I was so impressed on what the false oboe finger- All my friends were there. It gave me great incen- ings would do on saxophone that I started experi- JI: Bassist Jymie Merritt picked you as an original tive. I came home and I studied and practiced, menting and found many, many different finger- member of his ensemble The Forerunners in 1962. practiced, practiced. I had been playing “Cherokee” ings. Some other saxophone players are doing Would you talk about the intensity of that music? but not at that tempo. I practiced with Hasaan and them. James Carter is one of the few doing some of the next time I played for Max, I was able to play those things. He told me he knew about me when OP: Even today, every time I play that music it’s that tempo. the first Saxophone Choir album [The Saxophone like I’m playing it for the first time. The notations, Shop, 1985, Soul Note] came out, which he used to the rhythmic structure, the melodic structure, and JI: You’re best known for your greater than twenty listen to. the harmonic structure [are unique] and all the years spent as a member of Max Roach’s quartet musicians are playing a different part and each one but you actually worked with him for about a short JI: What was your early relationship with John has to figure out how to fit their sound into what period much prior to that in 1967. Coltrane? the others are doing. His music was so different, and it still is today. It’s different from anyone OP: Jymie Merritt was working with Max at the OP: I met him when I was around twelve. I used to else’s music, it’s very challenging. In fact, [at some time and he recommended me when Max was go over to his house and we would practice and he point] most of the musicians, except for me and searching for a tenor player for his quartet. So I would give me different ideas. We would practice Jymie Merritt, had nervous breakdowns because of went to New York and Max said I had two weeks scales. He was a person who would do scales for the music. One night, I remember, the wife of one to learn twelve compositions and that he didn’t maybe two hours before he did anything else. of the musicians called me up and said, “Odean, want any music on the bandstand. I commuted to Nothing but scales, and he still was doing that up what y’all been doing tonight because [my hus- New York every day rather than stay there. For two until his last days here on the planet. That influ- band] has been sitting up all night, talking to him- weeks he picked me up at the train station and then enced me and I still do regular scales because when self?” I told her we had been working on some took me back to the station. He had a unique sys- you practice them, it gives you a greater sense of concepts of the music. I think the music was so tem of training the band that I still use at times what the pitch might be and how closely you are demanding, and it required so much discipline and today. He said to play four measures of the music, playing perfectly in tune because the saxophone is hard work and so much preparation, it put out a lot repeat it four or five times, and then turn over the

10 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 water said, “Max, you’ve got your napkin on the for about two months in Europe, if you can imagine Odean Pope back of your chair!” So he was really steamed. If traveling with two of the greatest forerunners of Max would get a little angry with you for some this and any era, traveling with them, listening to reason he wouldn’t let you solo. We were in East their stories, paying attention to what they’re do- (Continued from page 10) Berlin one night and he told [bassist] Tyrone ing, how they are doing it, how they are approach- music and play it by memory. That worked very [Brown] to just play the harmonic concept – which ing you about how to play certain things. Dizzy well. means ‘don’t worry about it because I’m not gonna used to always tell me different things - how to let you solo.’ The only people that he never messed phrase this, how to do this, how to play “Night in JI: Your first stint with Roach only lasted about a with a whole lot was Cecil Bridgewater and my- Tunisia” a certain way. It was just so much infor- year. Why so short? self. I remember him and Stanley Cowell getting mation that after that tour I had so much infor- into a big fight at Ronnie Scott’s. We played Stock- mation to work with, and I’m still working with it. OP: Right, I played with him at first about one holm and it was so beautiful with a big crowd. It’s a continuum, it never stops. I’m constantly year and then I went back home to study, study, After the gig was over, Max was overwhelmed by trying to make that next step and I learned that study. I wasn’t really ready to play with him at that the reception from the audience and he sat down at from Max and Dizzy. It was interesting to see the time and I told him that. I needed more technique the piano, singing “Nobody Knows the Trouble two of them interact on that tour. We were playing and ideas. When I got back home from ’68 until I’ve Seen” and Jymie Merritt said, “We should once and Dizzy said, “Max, you’re playing too 1979, I didn’t take hardly any jobs, I just stayed in leave because when he starts singing that song loud,” and Max would run it down a little bit. Diz- the basement and practiced. Max called me again something is getting ready to happen.” So Charles zy again said, “Max, I told you you’re playing too in 1979 and asked me to join his new group with Tolliver, Jymie Merritt, Stanley Cowell and myself loud!” I’m saying this to say that Dizzy was the Charles Tolliver, Jymie Merritt and Stanley Cow- left and went back to the hotel. We were playing only person, other than Kenny Clarke, who could ell. So I went to his house and studied the composi- chess and talking until suddenly we heard all this talk to Max in a way like that and not have him fly tions and this time I was more prepared. He tried rumbling downstairs in the lobby of this beautiful off and start cussing and carrying on. The only two out a number of saxophonists and I was the one he hotel. Max had broken all the windows around the people who I knew who could really hound Max picked. I worked with him from 1979 until 2002, hotel, which was now completely a wreck, and then was Dizzy and Kenny Clarke. And during that tour, the last 22 years of his career. he went to the river and threw all his money in the it was Max’s quartet but Dizzy had more to say river. We went on to Ronnie Scott’s but Max was about what was going on than Max. Max and Dizzy JI: Is it true you almost declined the opportunity to locked up so Kenny Clarke and Jimmy Heath went had a good relationship and could talk to one an- join Roach’s band for the second time in ’79? and got him out of jail, brought him to the hotel in other. London, and all night Kenny and Jimmy were OP: Yes, I almost declined. I was still rehearsing praying with him to try to get him together. The JI: What was your Abbey Lincoln experience? with the Forerunners at the time and Jymie Merritt, next day he had scheduled a rehearsal but Stanley who’s a very inspirational person, told me around Cowell had not heard about it so he never showed OP: Abbey Lincoln was a gem. She was one of the 1978 that he was thinking of leaving Art Blakey to up. That night when Stanley came into the club, greatest ladies to travel with, she was very giving go back with Max Roach who was forming another Max grabbed Stanley by the neck and they fell on and never separated herself from the sidemen like group. He told me I was ready for Max and he the floor. Stanley didn’t want to hurt him, he could most artists do when they get to a certain level. She would mention my name to him. In fact, he said have if he wanted to but he had so much respect for was always talking to us about issues and was very that Max had asked how I was doing. Max liked Max that he didn’t. Meanwhile, Max was reaching knowledgeable about the political arena. me in 1967 because I was trying to play something for my horn to hit Stanley with it but I grabbed his different from everyone else and that’s what he told hand off of it. He then grabbed a quart sized beer JI: During your time with Roach, you also studied people when they asked why he was keeping me. bottle, broke it, and jabbed it into Stanley’s leg and at the Paris Conservatory for Music under drummer He heard something different in my playing. Stanley’s leg was quite messed up for a while. Kenny Clarke. How did you fit that into your Those are a few things of what he would do. He schedule and why take lessons from another drum- JI: Talk about Max Roach as a leader and his ex- was a real character in addition to being the great mer while learning under Max Roach? pectations of you. drummer of any generation. He had some other things going on with him that were unacceptable. I OP: Kenny Clarke, in a sense, was the first drum- OP: During my early experience with him, I had don’t know if he was bipolar but he did some really mer to play the foot pedal and I think Max took just learned to circular breathe but I would just unusual things at times. If he was around a group that concept from Kenny and added onto what he hold the note, I wouldn’t move it. We were at Ron- of people that really [celebrated him with great was doing. Kenny was the first to play independent nie Scott’s [Jazz Club in London] and this night the applause] that would really take him to some other with the left foot and also play the bass drum with place was packed as always when Max played and place. I think he would get so emotional and so his right and have four things going on at once, I was playing and I just held one note for about caught up with that. One time he wore one outfit which was very different during that time. As well four minutes. Max stopped the band and said over for two weeks, traveling and performing in Europe. as the bebop concepts and rhythmic concepts, he the mic, “Odean, if you cannot move that circular He was also one of the greatest people and most was teaching that in Paris so every opportunity that breathing, don’t play one note no more!” So from giving people that I’ve come into contact with. I would get, I would take lessons from him. He that experience he taught me to start searching how When I was sick in Europe and stayed in a hospital gave me some valuable information that I’m still to circular breathe and to move it around. I worked there for seven weeks, he gave my wife a thousand using today. He was a very giving man, very sin- on that for the next few months and then all of a dollars every week that I was gone, and anytime I cere. I used to go to Paris [with Max] maybe four sudden it was all there. That was a very embarrass- needed anything he was there for me. He was one times a year and sometimes when we were off I ing moment for me. of the greatest leaders. He always influenced me to would fly over to Paris for a week to study and go continue on the path that I’m traveling. to the Selmer Company to get horns that they JI: Would you share some Max Roach memories? would give me. In fact, anytime that I’m in Paris I JI: There was a period where you traveled with can still go by the factory and get brand new instru- OP: He was a very unique person. He was the kind both Roach and Dizzy Gillespie on the road. ments. of guy that was really hard on bass players, not so much Jymie Merritt, but others. When I first played OP: There’s a park in London that the queen JI: There were periods during your extensive time with him he had Calvin Hill on bass and he used to named in tribute to Max called the Max Roach with Roach when he wasn’t working that much pick on Calvin all the time. I remember one funny Park and she set up an extensive tour for the Max which made life a struggle for you. What did you thing. We were sitting down for dinner once and he Roach Quartet featuring Dizzy Gillespie. We trav- do to earn money and how close were you to pursu- said, “Calvin get up from the table because you eled in a van that had everything including a refrig- ing a different career? don’t have any table manners. You’ve got your erator, library books, everything you could need napkin on the back of your chair!” Cecil Bridge- was right there. And traveling with Max and Dizzy (Continued on page 22)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 11 New CD Release from Dallas Area Pianist John A. Lewis

John A. Lewis, piano Merik Gillett, drums Robert Trusko, bass

TRACKS:  Backstory  Deadline  Jacked  Complicity  Bylines  Liable  Precocity  Excerpt from the "Ancient Dance Suite"  What Say I  A Cautionary Ruse

All compositions by John A Lewis

12 Visit JohnALewisJazz.com June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

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Sunday, June 17 Friday, June 22  Victor Goines Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Bdwy & Bdwy  Terence Blanchard Featuring The E-Collective; Jazz Standard, 116  Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz E. 27th St. Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Manhattan Bridges Orchestra featuring Memo & Jacquelene Acevedo;  Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas With Lawrence Fields, Piano, Linda May Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Han Oh, Bass, Joey Baron, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Ehud  John Bailey Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet Asherie Trio; Richie Vitale Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Monday, June 18  Monday Nights With WBGO, Uptown Tentet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Saturday, June 23  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th  Vanguard Big Band; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. & Bdwy  Lucas Pino Nonet; Joe Farnsworth Group; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz  Paquito D'Rivera; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Tuesday, June 19 Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass,  Jazztopad Festival Presents: Maciej Obara Quartet Presented In Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Partnership With The Polish Cultural Institute Of New York; Dizzy’s  Smalls Showcase: Jade Synstelien Trio; John Bailey Quintet; Ken Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Fowser Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Django Bates Trio With Peter Eloh, Peter Bruun; Jazz Standard, 116  Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, E. 27th St. 131 W. 3rd St.  Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Sunday, June 24 Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th  Robert Edwards Group; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; & Bdwy Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz  Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, Standard, 116 E. 27th St. 131 W. 3rd St.  Benny Bennack III ft. the DW Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Wednesday, June 20 Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Shamie Royston Trio With Special Guests Jaleel Shaw And Lee Hogans Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Album Release Party; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Bdwy Django Bates Trio With Peter Eloh, Peter Bruun; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Monday, June 25 Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Band Director Academy Faculty Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Center, 60th & Bdwy

Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vanguard Big Band; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Nick Finzer Sextet; Harold Mabern Trio; Aaron Seeber "After-hours";  Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Michel Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note,  Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 131 W. 3rd St. Tuesday, June 26 Thursday, June 21  Christian Sands Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Bdwy

& Bdwy  Janis Siegel; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Jazz Lovers’  Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz  Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar,  Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard  David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus 178 7th Ave S. Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass,  Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Frank Perowsky Quartet; Bruce Williams Quartet; Asaf Yuria "After-  Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Lifetime Collection hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.   Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Wednesday, June 27 JazzMusicDeals.com  Christian Sands Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & JazzMusicDeals.com Bdwy (Continued on page 14)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 13  Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, 178 7th Ave S.  Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard  Andy Fusco Quintet; Dmitry Baevsky Quartet; JD Allen "After-hours";  Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, 178 7th Ave S. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard  Darrell Green Quartet; Keith Brown Group; Jonathan Thomas -"After-  Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 178 7th Ave S. hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Emanuele Cisi Quartet; George Papageorge Group; Mike Troy - "After  Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. -hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Saturday, June 30  Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna Friday, June 29 Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Thursday, June 28 Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri-  Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E. Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri- 27th St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E.  Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri- 27th St.  Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E.  Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 27th St.  Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, 178 7th Ave S.  Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard Sunday, July 1  Jeff "Tain" Watts Travel Band CD Release; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  The Smokestack Brunch: Adi Meyerson; Grant Green: Evolution of Funk; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Larry Fuller; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Chris Byars Sextet; David Gibson Quintet; Jon Beshay "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Monday, July 2  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  John Colianni; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Anthony Pinciotti Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, July 3  Steven Kroon Septet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Spike Wilner Quartet; Josh Evans Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday, July 4  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Randy Johnston Trio; Isaiah J. Thompson "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Thursday, July 5  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Emmett Cohen; Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Richie Goods Group; Randy Johnston Trio; Charles Goold "After- hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, July 6  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Joey "G-Clef" Cavaseno Quartet; Amanda Sedgwick Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, July 7  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Smalls Showcase: Julieta Eugenio; Eliot Zigmund Quartet; The Amanda Sedgwick Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, July 8  The Smokestack Brunch: Alex Goodman; George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Lee Ritenour; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; (Continued on page 16)

14 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 15 Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Ralph  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Lalama & "Bop-Juice"; Josh Bruneau Group; Jon Beshay "After-  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Nick hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Hempton Band; JC Stylles/Steve Nelson - Hutcherson Band; Hillel Salem "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Monday, July 16  Jon Gordon Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Monday, July 9 Bdwy  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Mingus Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Wallace Roney Quintet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Wallace Roney Quintet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special  Clifford Barbaro Group; John Chin Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Michel Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Tuesday, July 17  Tribute to Jimmie Blanton; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, Tuesday, July 10 60th & Bdwy  Michael Pignéguy & The Awakenings Ensemble featuring Dominick  Michael Leonhart Orchestra featuring Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 Farinacci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy E. 27th St.  Matt Penman Group; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  MonoNeon & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass;  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special  Tommy Campbell & Vocal-Eyes; Robert Edwards Group; After-hours Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Charles Blenzig Group; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Wednesday, July 18  Shenel Johns and Vuyo Sotashe: In Honor of Nina Simone; Dizzy’s Wednesday, July 11 Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Claudia Acuña: A Tribute to Abbey Lincoln; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Michael Leonhart Orchestra featuring Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy E. 27th St.  Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  MonoNeon & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass;  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special  Mike Moreno Quartet; Harold Mabern Trio; Aaron Seeber "After- Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Avi Rothbard Quartet; Neal Caine Quintet; Jovan Alexandre "After- hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Thursday, July 19  Freddy Cole Quartet Pays Tribute to Nat King Cole; Dizzy’s Club, Thursday, July 12 Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Cassandra Wilson  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass;  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special  Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Mike Moreno Quartet; Carlos Abadie Quintet; Giveton Gelin "After-  Itamar Borochov Quartet; Tal Ronen Quartet; Davis Whitfield "After- hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Friday, July 20 Friday, July 13  Jon Faddis Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Roni Ben-Hur Quartet with special guest Joyce Moreno; Dizzy’s Club, Bdwy Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio with special guest Alicia Olatuja; Jazz Stand-  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. ard, 116 E. 27th St.  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass;  Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass;  Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Itai Kriss & TELAVANA; Immanuel Wilkins Quartet; Corey Wallace  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Tom Guarna Aggregate; Duane Eubanks Quintet; JD Allen "After- hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Saturday, July 21

 Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Saturday, July 14  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass;  Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio with special guest Alicia Olatuja; Jazz Stand- Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. ard, 116 E. 27th St.  Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Valery Ponomarev Quintet; Immanuel Wilkins Quartet; Brooklyn  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Sunday, July 22

Jazz Lovers’  Smalls Showcase: Nicole Glover Trio; Dave Stryker Quartet; Duane  The Smokestack Brunch: Jon Thomas Organ Quartet Eubanks Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Sarah Elizabeth Charles; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Sunday, July 15  Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass;  The Smokestack Brunch: Jared Gold; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. Lifetime Collection  Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Grant  Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Stewart Quartet; Bruce Harris Quintet; Hillel Salem "After-hours"; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special JazzMusicDeals.com JazzMusicDeals.com Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. (Continued on page 17)

16 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880  Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 Wednesday, July 25 W. 44th St.  Posi-Tone's New Faces; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Smalls Showcase: Ben Barnett Quartet; Tim Hagans Quintet; Joe

 Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. Dyson Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. “Some people’s idea of 3rd St.  Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; free speech is that they are free Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Sunday, July 29 to say what they like, but if anyone  Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315  Smokestack Brunch: The Adam Larson Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. W. 44th St. 27th St. says anything back that  Andrew Gould Quartet; Willerm Delisfort Project; Mike Troy - "After-  Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. is an outrage.” 3rd St.  Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Thursday, July 26 Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Catherine Russel; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. - Winston Churchill Bdwy  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Alex  Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Hoffman Quintet; Jerry Weldon Quartet; Jon Beshay "After-hours";  Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Monday, July 23 3rd St.  Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums;  The Descendants: An African Sextet in New York; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Monday, July 30 At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315  Monday Nights with WBGO: Lakecia Benjamin Quartet Plays Col-  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. W. 44th St. trane; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W.  Scott Wendholt/Adam Kolker Quartet; Tim Hegarty Band; Jonathan  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. 3rd St. Thomas -"After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  McCoy Tyner; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Kennci 4; Joe Farnsworth Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, Friday, July 27  Jonathan Barber Quintet; Joel Frahm Trio; After-hours Jam Session; 183 W. 10th St.  Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

 Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. Tuesday, July 24 3rd St.  Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Tuesday, July 31  Stanley Cowell Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Gabe Schnider Presents Hapa: Love Stories; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At & Bdwy  Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Bill O'Connell Jazz Latin Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. W. 44th St.  Harold Lopez-Nussa Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W.  Steve Williams Quartet; Joe Dyson Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours";  McCoy Tyner; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 3rd St. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Gerald Clayton, piano; Logan Richardson, alto sax; Walter Smith  Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums;

Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  John Pizzarelli with Jessica Molaskey; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.  Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 Saturday, July 28  Ian Hendrickson-Smith Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet; After-hours W. 44th St. Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.  Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session;  Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. 3rd St. 

 Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 17 Clubs,Clubs, VenuesVenues && JazzJazz ResourcesResources

5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608- 212-539-8778, joespub.com 55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com 0555. citywinery.com John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center) 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128, Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769- Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com 212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org 6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair, Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650- Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com 973-655-4000, montclair.edu 6900, aarondavishall.org C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn. Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875- www.cmoneverybody.com Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com 5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356 Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490, Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319 knickerbockerbarandgrill.com 60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto- American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park 07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org ry.com W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027, Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088. 908-232-5666 New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com www.antibesbistro.com Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900 La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St, Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759, Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595, New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com arthurstavernnyc.com jalc.com Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378- DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244. 2133, artsmaplewood.org The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com www.lefanfare.com Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St., East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662. Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York, 212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org www.evsnyc.com New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358- Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080 Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com 0774. Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400. Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339. El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831- www.lexinghotelnyc.com 222.barlunatico.com 7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542, Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn, Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com 718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970, The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083, Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org bargemusic.org Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585, B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144, Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot- lounge-zen.com bbkingblues.com soulfood.com Maureen's Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-3143. Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070 Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718- maureensjazzcellar.com Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645. 463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703 www.becobar.com For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427 McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787, Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago- mccarter.org Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600 sartspace.com Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501 Birdland, 315 W. 44th St., 212-581-3080 Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and -3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206- Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036, Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034, 0440 212-245-2030, [email protected] 212-544-9480 Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505, Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220. 10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com bowerypoetry.com www.ginfizzharlem.com Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600, Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933 http://bricartsmedia.org 10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/ MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn, Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362, Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area), NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org glenrockinn.com 516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com. Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800, Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY. montaukclub.com Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746 914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green- Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222. nd Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2 Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam- wichvillagebistro.com www.muchmoresnyc.com bulo.com Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600. Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com www.harlemonfifth.com Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612. Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har- 103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org lemtearoom.com Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376 Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan- Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147. National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455. drasjazz.com hatcitykitchen.com www.nationalsawdust.org Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave., Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC, Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102- Asbury Park, 732-774-5299 212-662-8830, havanacentral.com 3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave. New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ, highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314. 07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525, New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212- 609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com 568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD. New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw hudsonroom.com 5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu. Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st “A system of morality IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway & which is based on relative NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org emotional values is a mere Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.), Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910 212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com illusion, a thoroughly vulgar Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and conception which has nothing  Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor 6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net  Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595 Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020 sound in it and nothing true.”  Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets: 212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com 212-721-6500 Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928 Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973- Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com 746-6778. palazzonj.com Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885 — Socrates — Anton Chekhov Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl., Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

18 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn, Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800 NY, 718-768-0855 Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ, RECORD STORES 908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242 “It is curious that physical courage Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com -3000, http://academy-records.com should be so common in the world Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St., Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002, and moral courage so rare.” Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795 (212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155 Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804, Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St. 212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com (Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose MUSIC STORES — Mark Twain Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036, Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472, 646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of 845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001 NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800 Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam- St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302 Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700, City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595 rustikrestaurant.com Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377 York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300 St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728 SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues) St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200, 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton saintpeters.org 212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320 Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St. Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St., RADIO NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450 WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624- Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn, Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700 8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200, City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411, nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011, WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang- 212-741-0091, thecoll.com Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr haijazz.com Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215 Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242- Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor- shapeshifterlab.com 4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org [email protected] Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941 Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000 Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368, Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373 LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave., 718-997-3670, satchmo.net Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org Long Island City, 718-482-5151 Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers- Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St., Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733- Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595 10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900 Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org 9300, skippersplaneStpub.com Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music, Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565, Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300, University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372 jazzmuseuminharlem.org SmallsJazzClub.com Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027, Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036, Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268 212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025 212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel, NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528 New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org 221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799 New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936 New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484- NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446 Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY, 5120, 154southgate.com NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com 212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org. Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793 Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787  Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St. Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923 Stanley H. 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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 19 en weeks I asked him again how much the gig was Odean Pope going to be paying and he didn’t tell me so I sort of JI: Let’s talk about your work as a leader. Your pulled back from the rehearsals. I always had a skills as a composer, arranger and orchestrator are tremendous amount of respect for the group be- vastly underappreciated. You’ve written a number (Continued from page 11) cause they were doing something different but of compositions that are worthy of consideration as during that time, music was my livelihood and I jazz standards such as “Epitome,” “Cis,” and OP: I was fortunate to get a teaching job at what is had to support my wife. I got married very young. “Muntu Chant,” but I don’t hear others covering now called Settlement Music School. In 1978, There was also talk going around at that time that them. Where is the disconnect? Billy Taylor and I first started at the school at 4th some of the musicians wouldn’t get paid, they and Queen Street and from that experience, they would get food money or maybe a dinner. Musi- OP: I think the disconnect is with the Saxophone gave me a job to work at Holmesburg Prison with cians at that time were so eager to work with Sun Choir. The music was written for nine saxophones, [violinist] John Blake and also to teach some stu- Ra that they would work for like maybe twenty piano, bass and drums, and I don’t know of any dents at the school. That gave me a little money five to fifty dollars. Since Sun Ra has passed, I’ve other saxophone choirs like that. The music is diffi- and periodically I would accept some gigs around been over to the house to play quite a few times cult to adapt to smaller groups because the melo- Philadelphia. I also worked at the mail department at the Wanamaker Building. That’s why I composed one tune that I named “Mail Order.” “I was in the pit band at the Uptown Theater in the

JI: Catalyst was a Philadelphia-based, collective early ‘60s. On this particular Saturday night, I had band you helped form in the early ‘70s that combined jazz-funk, rock, soul and avant-garde jazz. another gig and I had to find a replacement so I asked It’s considered to have been ahead of its time. What circumstances brought the band together and Leon Mitchell if he knew of another tenor player I what made it so advanced? could get to sub for me and he said there was a new OP: I got a job as music director in 1972 for a special program that got a grant to combine music, guy in town by the name of Grover Washington so I dance and art. I brought in Tyrone Brown, Philly Joe Jones, Eddie Green, Jymie Merritt and Sher- called Grover. That turned out to be Grover’s first gig man Ferguson for jobs teaching there also. Three days a week, Tyrone, Eddie, me and Sherman in town since he moved from Buffalo. That’s how we would stay late and rehearse all night to develop the Catalyst sound. Somehow Eddie Green made met and shortly after that, once he had a hit record, contact with the Muse label and we did four LPs and worked quite a bit around town. We were play- he used to call me to work with his group a lot …” ing all our own music which I think made us stand out over the other groups who played standards. and Marshall [Allen] and I have a recording out dies are stretched out for nine saxophones. Even today when I listen to that group it still together [Universal Sounds, Porter Records, 2011]. sounds good. Michael Brecker told me he used to I really admire Marshall. JI: You’ve recorded the same original songs nu- listen to all the Catalyst recordings. merous times, including “Cis” at least five times. JI: You play clarinet, oboe, flute, piccolo, soprano Why record the same songs so often? JI: What was your connection with Grover Wash- sax and piano but on recordings and performances ington Jr.? you only use tenor sax. OP: It’s been done with different configurations and that makes a difference. I’ve done it with the OP: I was in the pit band at the Uptown Theater in OP: My feeling about that is that there’s still so Saxophone Choir, the trio, and the octet, and with the early ‘60s. On this particular Saturday night, I much for me to do on the tenor that I haven’t each of those groups, it sounds like a different had another gig and I had to find a replacement so I picked up the other instruments. It’s strange but it song. asked Leon Mitchell if he knew of another tenor seems that I can adjust to the soprano’s embou- player I could get to sub for me and he said there chure a lot better than the tenor’s. I can just pick up JI: “Cis” is a composition that you’ve been playing was a new guy in town by the name of Grover the soprano and the sound is right there but the very regularly for well over thirty years. You wrote Washington so I called Grover. That turned out to tenor requires more discipline and hard work for that for your wife and it has meaning to you that be Grover’s first gig in town since he moved from me, so I try to utilize as much time as possible on listeners will never know. How has it been to per- Buffalo. That’s how we met and shortly after that, that instrument. I keep telling myself that at some form that song for so many years, especially now once he had a hit record, he used to call me to work point I would like to pick the bass clarinet up. The that your wife has passed? with his group a lot and we got pretty tight. tenor requires so much demand in terms of tone, technique and all the qualities that come out of it. OP: It reminds me of the great memories that my JI: You didn’t live far from Sun Ra in the German- I’m always trying to do more on the tenor and to wife and I shared together. She was a very special town section of Philadelphia. What was your rela- play from the low B-flat to the high F and then lady. She was going to the University of Pennsyl- tionship with Sun Ra and the Arkestra? above the extended altissimo range that I play, it vania, studying to be a writer, but when I started requires a lot of time. traveling with Max she decided that she would OP: Sun Ra called me to make a job with him in travel with me and drop out of college. So the first Chicago in the early ‘70s. That’s how I met him JI: Except for your regular work with Max Roach, trip she took with the band I was bogged down and for over two months, every day, I rehearsed you’ve not done a significant amount of guest or with a full suitcase of books that she packed! She with him, getting the music together because John sideman work. was so special and supportive to me and every time Gilmore had some other things going on. He want- I play that tune I think of her and feel very special. ed me to know the repertoire and be able to do the OP: I’ve worked with Bobby Zankel quite a bit job when John wasn’t available. So about the third and I like working with him because he uses origi- JI: The Odean Pope Saxophone Choir has been week of rehearsing every day I asked him how nal music and it’s a great challenge. It’s hard, com- active since 1977 and utilizes, as you’ve men- much the gig was paying and he said, “Well, don’t plex music. Most of the time I’m playing with my tioned, nine saxophones plus a rhythm section to worry about that. It will be worked out.” So I came quartet or my trio. I’ve played as a duet with An- translate the power and glory of the gospel choir the next day, rehearsed, and asked again how much drew Cyrille a number of times. Playing with other that you experienced as a child. That large ensem- the gig was paying but no answer. After about sev- people really helps me develop. (Continued on page 21)

20 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 OP: Jeff Levenson, who was working at the Blue lo and the plants were so beautiful that I was in- Odean Pope Note at the time, called me up and said that he had spired. wanted to do something with me for many years and that he wanted to record the Saxophone Choir. JI: Plant Life featured Sunny Murray on drums ble gives you so much to work with, do you feel He arranged a three day recording session at the playing uncharacteristically more in the pocket. constricted when working in smaller settings? Blue Note Club and suggested I include a different How did you envision Murray for that project? guest soloist each night, which he left up to me to OP: Not really because in each one of my groups I pick. I had met James Carter about twenty years OP: Sunny and I go back a long ways, we used to try to create something a little different. With the ago in Warsaw where we struck up a nice friend- play together as a duo. Before the recording, Sunny trio I play about fifty percent standards, with the ship. He told me he used to carry that first Saxo- had invited me over to Europe to do a trio thing quartet I’m also playing some standards. I like to phone Choir LP around with him so I knew he with him, which I appreciated, so I asked him to do play standards that haven’t been played so much would be compatible with what I was trying to do. a trio recording with me for Porter Records who and that are unique with their chord changes and Michael Brecker had told me he used to play the had engaged me to do four or five different things. harmonic and melodic structures. You don’t hear Catalyst CDs all the time when he was going to I felt very close to him and he was one of the few people playing songs like “Nancy with the Laugh- Berklee. So I knew he knew about my music. I first drummers during that early period who was doing ing Face” and “On a Misty Night.” met Joe Lovano after I did an interview at a radio something different. station in New York City. When I came out of the JI: “Grey Hair” appears on your Epitome recording studio, he was sitting on the side waiting to do his JI: There was a 2011 all-star benefit concert for [Soul Note, 1994]. What inspired that song? own interview. I had never heard about him before. you in Philadelphia after you publically announced He said, “Odean, I’m Joe Lovano and I really like your 30 year struggle with bipolar disorder. How OP: The concept behind “Grey Hair” came when I your music, man, and I really hope we can get a has that disorder interfaced with your work as an started getting grey hair. I looked in the mirror and chance to play or do something.” So these are the artist and why come public with that? I said, ‘That’s a good composition.’ three musicians I used. OP: Bipolar is a sickness just like any other sick- JI: You titled a 1999 recording Ebioto [Knitting JI: Michael Brecker appeared on stage with you ness. I was in a European hospital for seven weeks Factory] which stands for “everybody is on their for that recording despite being weakened from the with bipolar in the past. Bipolar first started with own.” What did you mean by that? disease that would take his life. What went on be- me in 1980 when I lost my brother. I couldn’t ac- hind the scene to get him there? cept the fact that he was gone and I was doing all OP: I meant when you get on the bandstand with kind of crazy things. I was a devil, I was a different me, everyone is on their own. We each have differ- OP: A few weeks before we got ready to record, person. And then from that attack, it would seem ent ideas up there but when I write certain things, Michael Brecker called me up and said, “Odean, that whenever something very favorable happened to me, I would get so emotional that the same thing would happen to me. They prescribed medication “I often practice pianissimo, just with my fin- and I would take it for a short while and then stop. But bipolar can be controlled with medication and gers, which I sort of learned from Sonny Stitt. exercise, and you can live a normal life. When my wife died, I couldn’t accept that and they put me in the hospital. I first went to my daughter’s house for He had certain things that he would do in about two weeks. I was walking the floor all night, wouldn’t go to bed. Finally, her husband came to situations when he wasn’t able to practice. He my room one morning and said, “Put your bedroom slippers on, we’re gonna get you out of here to- developed this unique thing of just practicing day,” and they put me in the hospital. I was there nineteen days, I wouldn’t cooperate with the doc- by fingering the keys and listening to it. Living tors, I would just look at them. Finally I told my daughter that I was ready to come home and to take the medication. The benefit concert was set up by here I try to be as congenial to my neighbors as my manager Deena Adler. She got Bill Cosby to come and the place was packed. Dee Dee Bridge- possible and I practice from nine o’clock pianis- water sent me a thousand dollars, as did Al Jarreau, and I was able to use the money that was raised to simo and then when twelve o’clock comes, I’ll pay back bills because I hadn’t been working for a while. That benefit concert gave me a new perspec- open up until five o’clock. Then maybe if I go to tive after seeing all the people that were there who thought that I should be helped and treated like a eight o’clock, I’ll practice pianissimo again.” normal person. I don’t intend to be sick anymore, I intend to do what I’m supposed to do.

everybody’s on their own. In other words, this is I’m very sick and I don’t know whether I’ll be JI: The last questions were given to me by other your arena and this is my arena, and in order to ready to do the date or not.” I said, ‘Michael, you artists to ask you: make them be compatible to one another you have can do it. Somebody told me a long time ago not to to work with it. It’s like a puzzle that must be put use the word can’t in my vocabulary. You can do Gerald Veasley (bass) asked: “Knowing that you together to make it sound complete. So Ebioto is a it, I believe in you.’ A week later he told me he still practice extensively every day, I wonder how message to the musicians who are performing it. would give me his best. you maintain your spirit for growing as a musician?” JI: Locked & Loaded [Half Note, 2006] was a JI: Plant Life is a 2008 recording [Porter] you critically acclaimed, blockbuster recording you made that also features a composition by that OP: I think over the years I’ve developed a con- made live at New York’s Blue Note club and fea- name. What inspired that title? cept that I have things that I must do and things tured performances by Michael Brecker, Joe that I want to do. I get up in the morning and do Lovano and James Carter. How did that project OP: That was inspired by the creation of plants – certain practice exercises that if I don’t do every come together? trees, the foliage, and the transitions that the trees day, I feel like I’m not complete. I often practice go through. I was driving upstate to Erie and Buffa- (Continued on page 24)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 21 attention that it really made no difference what you JI: Ashley Montague said, people need to grow old called the chord, because he could care less what it not in their childlike qualities but in their adult INTERVIEW was called. And that said something to me. And it qualities, otherwise heaven forbid, a certain psycho INTERVIEW began to reveal to me the multifaceted interpreta- -sclerosis sets in.

tions and definitions of quite a number of different things that we as individuals see in different ways. PM: Exactly, that is exactly what I’m just defining One musician sees the same chord as a B-minor here. So I think that has a great deal to do with Pat Martino seventh flat five. Another musician sees that specif- many of us as musicians, in terms of being crafts- ic inversion of that chord as B-minor over B. There men in any field or any profession. And I think that are quite a number of things. Another musician the true nature of an artist in any field of endeavor sees that very same chord as a B-flat major seventh is a little closer to the ecstasy that is innate and that sharping the root. So what I learned from his re- has transcended its applications within such an Hear Pat Martino at the Jazz Standard sponse was how little he could care about the name industrial society, that it is the essence of that indi- July 19-22, 2018 of something and how deeply involved he was in vidual’s intentions that are solidified within that the essence of what that truly represented and what individual and he or she has then the power to cre- By Eric Nemeyer; Photo by Ken Weiss it functioned as. ate longevity in their own ecstasy. And that is the difference between two things in my experience, JI: Could you discuss your continuing evolution? the first being my intention as a juvenile, who is JI: Could you tell us about your recording that is a still subject to the intentions and the responsibili- tribute to Wes Montgomery. PM: Well, I think it’s essential to experience what ties of parental guidance, where it was from the all of us experience in common. And that’s musi- bottom of their hearts their main intention was to PM: Personally, the preparation for this goes a cianship, which is to participate as a craftsman, advise and to guide me into directions which would long ways back. In fact, the preparationxxxxxxxxxx goes back successfully as a craftsman in the midst to the re- support me and would give me longevity and en- to approximately 1958, 1959. It goes back to a time sponsibilities of the craft itself. And that is, some durance and a future as opposed to the ecstasy that when I wished I could play the music that I had of the most basic general terms that are common in was innate since childhood. So that came the sec- listened to and fell in love with which is all of the such a pursuit would be being on time, being in the ond time around when I forgot everything the first separate cuts on this particular album, Remember. union, when of course these things are functionally time and the blackboard was erased. It then came And I’ve remembered those songs throughout my a necessity, knowing the right people, having a down to procrastination for a period of limbo. And evolution as an individual. It goes back to a time as manager, looking for a manager at some point, from that came finally a decisive direction and that a child; so many of us have a dream that we wish having a record contract, all these things that are direction led me right back into my favorite toy: could come true someday. And in the process of general interest on behalf of musicians who are the instrument. growing and becoming an adult, in most cases, the entering into this as a career. We share them in majority of individuals forget what that was about. common, initially. Somewhere down the line due JI: What was that process of recovering your And they proceed accordingly to fit whatsoever to an experience throughout the years over a broad- memory like? they have become in that point in their life. And er length of time in the evolution of our interpreta- rarely is it in conjunction with what they really tions, we begin to see that all of these things really PM: The process itself had more to do with seek- wanted to do as children. I wanted to be like Wes have nothing to do with what we initially started ing a closer awareness of consciousness on a philo- Montgomery. I wanted to be able to play like that. I out wanting to be and wanting to do. So in that sophical as well as a spiritual level than it had any- wanted to be able to fluently flow through the mu- respect, it’s impossible to tell at the early stages of thing to do with a career orientation or the replica- sic that impressed me so deeply in my childhood. our own evolution, our experience in music exactly tion of the past for a better future. There was a And it took me close to 50 years to reach a point what’s going to happen next and where it’s going period of tumult, just very volatile confrontations where I have the dexterity at this point in my life to to bring us. But one of the most profound things of with just many things that were alienated immense- be able to achieve that, with the same intentions all of this happened to me when I forgot everything ly to me. And what it always caused me to do was that I had as a child, which was the enjoyment of and I reestablished a position that was very similar to sink back into solitude. And it brought me closer the music itself. to the very initial departure as a child and that was to individuals such as Thomas Merton and of the playfulness with a toy; to be able to sit down course nowadays would be similar to individuals JI: Do you remember any dialogue that you might and enjoy something to such a degree that your such as Eckhard Tolle and others. And it brought have had with Wes? parents would have to come over and say, “Stop into a closer interest in certain artists’ innate refer- doing that and do your homework” is something ences to such states of mind, such as John Coltrane PM: One of the most significant moments was that we all share in common. And something that “A Love Supreme”, “Giant Steps”, but the meaning of these terms had much more to do with the attain- ment of a higher goal as a human being not as a “...we begin to see that all of these things musician. And because of this it came down to a reassessment of my own interests. And my inten- really have nothing to do with what we initially tions had very little to do with a career anymore. started out wanting to be and wanting to do. And not only that, it would have been foolish to move in those directions due to the fact that it had So in that respect, it’s impossible to tell at the already been done. And there was a history already built for that. So when I finally got back to my early stages of our own evolution, our relationship with my instrument as my toy as it was in the beginning, prior to my educational interrup- experience in music exactly what’s going to tion with that ecstasy, it was no longer interfered with. And the second time through, it’s been a happen next and where it’s going to bring us.” childish ecstasy all the way; it’s playful to the max. And within, like so many others, I am primarily based on me asking what the name of the chord the majority of us forget, primarily because once interested in the human experience and from a third was. We were at the President Hotel one evening, we are reorganized and pointed in a direction that point of view the fidelity with regards to interpreta- and I was in his room. And he was sitting on the is going to be feasible for a career and for success tion and definition and the decoding of all things edge of the bed and he was playing. I don’t remem- within an industrial society, we begin to forget the that lead to a happier existence. ber exactly what it was, but I asked him, “What is ecstasy that we had as children lost in the playful- that? What’s the name of the chord that you just ness and joy of curiosity itself.    played?” And he was specific in bringing to my

22 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 23 OP: I think I grew quite a bit working with Max who was very humble, he didn’t talk that much, Odean Pope because he gave me so much flexibility regarding and he always was smiling. You never knew what my improvising and playing. When you improvised he was thinking. I had the opportunity to go down he never cut you off, the only time he did was to his home and really talk with him directly and (Continued from page 21) when I was playing that one note. He was a tre- eat and share things with him. When he came to me mendous supporter of you developing your own and said, “Odean, the Saxophone Choir is so won- pianissimo, just with my fingers, which I sort of ideas, and without him I don’t think I would be derful and so rhythmically and harmonically in- learned from Sonny Stitt. He had certain things that where I am today in terms of development, creativ- clined with what we are doing today. I would like he would do in situations when he wasn’t able to ity, the love for the music, and all of the other to write the liner notes.” That was the most reward- practice. He developed this unique thing of just things that goes into being a great artist and staying ing feeling that I received from that whole practicing by fingering the keys and listening to it. positive. [project]. In addition to Michael Brecker, James Living here I try to be as congenial to my neigh- Carter and Joe Lovano, I think the four of them bors as possible and I practice from nine o’clock James Carter also asked: “Who’s currently on the together, that’s where my inspiration came to play pianissimo and then when twelve o’clock comes, musical front that you’re digging on?” and to try to do what I’m doing today. Joe Lovano I’ll open up until five o’clock. Then maybe if I go is a very humble man, he’s very original, and he’s to eight o’clock, I’ll practice pianissimo again. I think the answer to the question would be that my spirit and my whole development comes by way of I’ve had the good fortune of going down to steady practicing and maintaining my physical fitness through riding an exercise bicycle, I think it Ornette’s place in New York often while we were inspires me to want to be a better person. There is so much out there to learn and to develop and I working on this recording …. Just looking out have to practice or that cannot happen. Scales and the concept of chord changes and the fourth system and seeing him there… One time before, I was and third system are the key and what keeps me very energized and want to keep doing more. at the Blue Note and I remember seeing Illinois Joey DeFrancesco (organ) recalled a memory: “The first time I met you was in the 9th grade when Jacquet and Sonny Rollins [in the audience] you did some teaching at my high school, CAPA [Philadelphia High School for Creative & Perform- there on the same night and it gave me the ing Arts]. I remember you teaching us “Giant Steps.” same kind of feeling when I saw Ornette …”

OP: I remember that well. I had gotten a grant to OP: I like to listen to piano players and George the kind of person who tries to enhance whatever do a ten-week workshop at the school and Christian Burton is one I’ll mention. I brought him into the you’re doing. McBride and Joey DeFrancesco were the only two Saxophone Choir when Eddie Green passed and he students who were there every day and for most of developed so fast. His teacher, Tom Lawton, is JI: Any final comments? the time, they were the only two in the class. Chris- another pianist I’ll mention. He took George Bur- tian was playing the upright and Joey was playing ton’s place in the band and he is another talented OP: I’d like to mention the musicians here in Phil- piano. On this particular day I went in and I was guy, an excellent reader, and his concept of im- adelphia like Julian Pressley, Joe Sudler, Tom practicing before the class, warming up on “Giant provisation is very creative and interesting. Lawton, Lee Smith, Craig McIver, Terry Lawson, Steps.” So when they came in they said, “What is Elliott Levin, Lewis Taylor, Robert Landham and that?” I told them and they asked me to write the Joe Lovano (saxophone) recalled playing at the Bobby Zankel, these musicians they are so special changes out. It was a Monday, and when I came Blue Note club with you which led to the Locked & and so giving and so much into what I’m trying to back that Wednesday they were there before I got Loaded recording: “Playing with the amazing do that I feel so extremely blessed that I have these there, playing “Giant Steps” like they had com- Odean Pope Saxophone Choir and standing toe to great musical minds at my fingertips. posed it. I never had seen anybody develop so fast. toe with you, experiencing the total power of your “Giant Steps” is very complex, I was amazed with playing within the full ensemble, captured me from what they were doing. the first note to the last and was a thrilling, explo-    sive experience through the evening. That night William Parker (bass) asked: “What are your was also extra special for all of us because Ornette goals for the future? What haven’t you done that Coleman was there to hear us and sat right in front you would like to do?” of me. That fueled my ideas and added to the inspiration that filled the room for all of us.” Would you OP: I would like to leave a great legacy in terms of talk about performing in front of Ornette Coleman? what I’ve done to help other people. I would like to be a good force to help other people. I’d love to go OP: I’ve had the good fortune of going down to up to certain people and give them a few thousand Ornette’s place in New York often while we were dollars to help get themselves together or talk to working on this recording, especially when we them. I would like to give back. I’ve been so fortu- were mixing it. Just looking out and seeing him nate to share so much with so many great people there… One time before, I was at the Blue Note and so many people have helped me during my and I remember seeing Illinois Jacquet and Sonny lifetime. My main goal at this time is to continue to Rollins [in the audience] there on the same night grow and develop and also get into the position of and it gave me the same kind of feeling when I saw being able to help more people with their concepts Ornette because I used to love the way Illinois and their ideas. played. When I was twelve or thirteen I thought that was what I really wanted to do. Between Illi- James Carter (multi-instruments) asked: “What nois Jacquet, Sonny Rollins and Ornette Coleman, wisdom did you get from your association with the energy and ideas came by just looking at them. Max Roach?” It seemed like energy was coming to me when I looked at Ornette. Ornette was the kind of person

24 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 went over to Haiti, those kind of traditions if you don’t know what sniffing around, you’re doing. The name don’t just come out of the INTERVIEW and some of the sky. They probably have a ritual and some kind of INTERVIEW extended family sacrifice, especially in the Griot societies. They

goes back to Benin, have more than five hundred years of tradition so the ancient king- there’s a lot of energy attached to a name in addi- dom of Dahomey, tion to what they want to reflect through the person Famoudou Don Moye which is the coun- who gets it and what his responsibilities are. People try of origin of of most indigenous cultures have significance at- Relentless Pursuit of the Pan-African Pulse many Haitians. tached to their individual names.

JI: Why did you JI: You ended up meeting Famoudou Konaté in Interview and photo by Ken Weiss adopt the name Famoudou in 1975? 1985 in Guinea, ten years after taking his name. That had to be a special moment for you. Donald Franklin Moye Jr. was born on May 23, FDM: We were all interested in personalizing our 1946 in Rochester, New York, into a music-loving awareness [at that time]. I took the first name Fa- FDM: I was on a tour of Sierra Leone, Liberia and family and shared his father’s interest in the moudou but I also wanted to honor the name that Guinée, West Africa with a trio that included saxo- drums. Entranced in the ‘50s and ‘60s by the rare my parents gave me, so I kept my family name. phonist John Tchicai and pianist, percussionist and and exotic African and Caribbean rhythms and Famoudou was a spiritual name. At the time, I was poet Hartmut Geerken. We did a concert with the percussion techniques, Moye is able to swing and involved with the group in Chicago called the Sun Ballet National de Guinée in Conakry Guinée so I improvise in the conventional jazz manner while Drummers, founded by Atu Harold Murray, which put out the word there that I wanted to meet Fa- also developing an expansive, unique polyrhythmic was a collective of drummers that combined many moudou Konaté personally. When we met he said, style. He’s best known as a memberxxxxxxxxxx of the Art En- spirits. I had also played with many of the West “Who is this? Famoudou who?” I said, ‘It’s semble of Chicago since 1970, as well as his time African musicians in Paris. Famoudou Konaté’s Famoudou Me! And here’s a boom box, a fifth of with The Pharaohs, The Leaders, Randy Weston, name emerged as one of the great masters. Famou- Remy Martin Napoleon Cognac, a carton of Marl- Kirk Lightsey, Steve Lacy, Wadada Leo Smith, dou was a great djembefola [djembe drummer] boros, and a Swiss Army knife. Now let’s talk, Julius Hemphill, Henry Threadgill, Hamiet Bluiett, from the Mandingo tradition and I felt a great ener- Master.’ [Laughs] That was my formal meeting Pharoah Sanders, the Sun Ra All Stars, Archie gy from that name. There was also another great with him. The name Famoudou had come to me Shepp’s Attica Blues Orchestra, Don Pullen, Steve master who inspired me, Dougoufana Traoré, who and this was me realizing what the name really McCall, Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves, Baba was the first Senegalese master of the djembe tradi- represented. I made sure I went and got the Sissoko, Kenny Clarke and numerous other well- tion in the modern era. I used both of their names connection of who this guy really was so I’d know known artists. This interview was started live on together for a minute but then I said, ‘No, this is what I was messing with. October 8, 2017, while he was in town with the Art too heavy.’ I used both of their names on Julius Ensemble to play Philadelphia’s October Revolu- Hemphill’s Raw Materials and Residuals recording JI: You brought him gifts? tion Festival [Ars Nova Workshop], and completed but when I saw it written out, I decided I wasn’t by phone from his home in Marseille, France on doing that no more. It was too heavy, it jumped up FDM: That’s what you do, that’s the world tradi- March 21, 2018. off the page and smacked me. [Laughs] One fist tion. You give, you don’t take. Anytime I go to different cultures, I take gifts along, and they give gifts back. It’s the spirit of giving and sharing, and certainly not stealing or copying. These other cul- “… you have to personalize what you do. tures start out by giving. They feed you and then, depending on your presence inside of what they’re It’s not about sounding like somebody doing, the sky is the limit from there. If you’re already knowledgeable about their traditions, if you else. You can do that too but you have half way speak the language, and know the impor- tance of what they’re doing, then you’ll probably have to take a duffle bag along because it’ll be full to try find your own personality. That’s when you leave. [Laughs]

the gift that was given to us from the JI: You term your playing to be “Sun Percussion.” What does that title infer? masters: Roy Haynes, Kenny Clarke, FDM: Energy from the sun. That’s an extension of Max, Baby Dodds, Elvin, Papa Joe the Sun Drummer tradition. I was inspired by all the energy and the spirit from participating with the Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Billy Higgins, Sun Drummer. I said to myself, ‘Hmm, I’m Sun Percussion, I do more than hand drums, I’ll expand Ed Blackwell, Buhaina and many, many on that.’ All the people I deal with, you have to personalize what you do. It’s not about sounding more. Find yourself, express yourself, like somebody else. You can do that too but you have to try find your own personality. That’s the define yourself.” gift that was given to us from the masters: Roy Haynes, Kenny Clarke, Max, Baby Dodds, Elvin, Papa Joe Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Billy Higgins, Ed Jazz Inside Magazine: What’s your family back- was Dougoufana and the other fist was Famoudou. Blackwell, Buhaina and many, many more. Find ground? Where does Moye come from? That was 1974. yourself, express yourself, define yourself.

Famoudou Don Moye: My grandfather was born JI: What do you mean by too heavy? JI: You’ve had a lifelong interest in world rhythms in Pensacola, Florida and his grandfather was from and it’s been your inclusion of various African and Haiti. He was a mix of Haiti and Seminole. My FDM: Names in traditional societies have a Caribbean percussion instruments and rhythmic mother’s side was from Richmond, Virginia and is rhythmic spiritual vibe because of the way people techniques that have separated you from many a mix of Cherokee and probably Irish or Scottish. I get their names. You can’t be messing around with (Continued on page 26)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 25 all night authentically? Not just one or two songs. my Italian right hip is weaker than my French left Famoudou Don Moye Do you have the capacity to play this music at a hip. In 2011 I started having trouble with my left high level with these musicians for a whole gig? hip in Casablanca where I met an Italian bass That goes for any kind of tradition, jazz, reggae, player, Claudio Citarella, whose girlfriend was a (Continued from page 25) the blues, djembe, koteroba, bâta, cumina, samba, French neurologist, who introduced me to an or- other jazz drummers of your generation. What rumba, taiko or whatever. Can you do that? Then, thopedist in Nice, France. So, I did the other hip in peaked your interest in this and why do you think you can call yourself a good drummer in the con- Marseille. That’s how I initially ended up in the investigation of ethnic rhythms wasn’t more text of that tradition. France. prevalent amongst other musicians at the time? JI: How has rock music influenced you? JI: That’s how you ended up living in Marseille? FDM: For me it was prevalent at that time. I was hanging out with the Puerto Ricans in the housing FDM: Not much, I was too early for rock & roll, FDM: No, I met a lady in 2007 while playing at projects of Rochester, New York when I first heard but I respect any music that’s well done and sounds the Charlie Jazz Festival near Marseille and we it, and I felt it also in the Townsend Children’s good to me. Oh, I had a lightweight brush with communicated back and forth until she finally said, Band and the Statesmen Drum and Bugle Corps. rock, being a teenager of the late ‘50s and early “You must come to Marseille!” After about two Then I started playing the bongos. My first connec- ‘60s, and being around that environment of the years of holding off I gave in. The good ones tion with hand percussion was through listening to LSD scene and all that stuff. That was my encoun- always win. Perez Prado and Dizzy Gillespie. I’ve always been ter with rock through Frank Zappa, Jimi Hendrix captivated by drums, any kind of drums. I got dis- and people like that. They were pretty advanced JI: What other musicians might we know who live ciplined at school many times for pounding on the and every now and then I listen to some Zappa in Marseille? desks but the music saved me. A lot of my buddies because he was a bad dude. [Laughs] He’s one of in the housing projects ended up dead or in jail. the great American composers and he always had FDM: Not that many. There’s Javier Campos Mar- xxxxxxxxxxgreat rhythm sections. Then Santana came along tinez, the bâta/rhumba and Cuban master rhythms JI: When dealing with specific ethnic rhythms is it and he did a good job of exposing people to other master in Marseille. Also I rehearse regularly and important to you to replicate them authentically or cultures because the white kids of that era didn’t perform occasionally with Christophe Leloil are you giving an interpretation of them? know anything about that. [trumpet], Simon Sieger [piano, tuba, trombone], and Remi Abram [tenor saxophone]. FDM: It ain’t no interpretation. If you want to do it JI: Are hand drums and percussion truer to your right, you go deal with the people who play it. I heart than the standard drum set? On your 1971 JI: You’re taking lessons? never did YouTube study or bought too many solo release [Sun Percussion, Vol. 1] you don’t books beyond basic drum techniques, I went to the event approach the drums until the sixth track. FDM: Yeah, hell yeah! I’ve always taken lessons people that actually do it. I believe in the direct with somebody. I even take drum lessons because I approach. There are no shortcuts to finding out FDM: It’s all the same, it just depends on what I’m always find these drummers in the pursuit of, not what it really is. If you watch something online and doing at the time. Philly Joe Jones told me it’s all perfection, just improvement. You have to find rewind it over and over again, that’s not connected the same, man. You have to take that ass whooping people who do stuff that you ain’t gonna never do, to life. That’s just a diversion. You have to see how from whatever instrument you’ve got. It’s gonna be then you get with that. I’ve learned over the years those cats express themselves live in their own an ass whooping. that the better teachers they are, they don’t get no context whenever possible. When you’re with gigs. They just play drums. I’ve found three or four them, you can see and hear what’s on their minds. JI: Is it true you named a son Bongo? of these cats over the years that just play and teach If they are going to a party or to a ceremony, you drums and are not gig musicians. That’s all they get some of the same rhythms in different func- FDM: No, that was his nickname. All the kids that do. I found a guy like that in Marseille who could be working all the time. That’s the mystery of how cats make their life choices, and I just stay out of “Cab [Calloway] told us how back in the ‘30s that. I just find them and pay them, and then six months go by and I learn some shit I’ve been and ‘40s he had to rent a sleeping car because working on for the last twenty years without fo- they could never stay in hotels. Under the cus… You see, you have to work against your ha- bits. There’s always somebody out there doing floor boards, they had rifles and pistols something better, so I don’t have limitations [in finding people to learn from]. because once you got out of the big cities, JI: What’s a typical day for you in Marseille? it was like the Wild West.” FDM: Get up, go to the studio. For the first time in tions. I was in Haiti and I wanted to go swimming came by to take lessons, they were Bongo One, forty-five years I’ve got a rehearsal studio. I’m not but all the beaches in Port-au-Prince were com- Bongo Two. That was just a little term of endear- living in a space where I can just get up and go pletely polluted so I drove about 100 kilometers out ment. He’d say, “Stop calling me Bongo!” downstairs and play at home. So, I’ve got a studio of town, stopped on the side of the road near a little now. All these other cats that I know did that and bridge. I had a little drum I was beating and a JI: You’ve spent a lot of time living in Europe now I’m doing it too. [Laughs] So I go across town couple of people came over the bridge and they over the past fifty years and now live in Marseille, to the studio and hit, and I’ve usually got students started drumming and then the mayor and some France. Why did you make that move to Europe? or classes, or just auto-torture. We call it duo more people came and played, and we all got toge- torture, auto-torture, group-torture, it’s all torture, ther for about three days. If you’re around different FDM: I went to Morocco first because I went to but it’s better than doing it by yourself. The auto- cultures, you get all of it. Everywhere I go with the play at the Casablanca Jazz Festival and then I got torture is difficult – self-torture. You have to make Art Ensemble, the percussionists come out so I a job teaching over there. Three months became six pleasantries out of all this stuff just to get through meet people from all over and I’ll capitalize on that months and then a year, things kept going on. I had it. You’ve got to psych yourself up, otherwise you and go to visit the places of the people I’ve met. a hip operation in Italy in 2009. My manager Lu- get older and then you start playing tricks – mental That’s part of the way I get involved with the ciano Caiazzo had a brother, who was the mayor of tricks. “Oh yeah, I got this.” You ain’t got that, relentless pursuit of the pan-African pulse. That’s Pomigliano and he called up his buddy who was man, you’ve got to face that drum set! The hardest what I call it. My classification of how this life the chief orthopedic surgeon in the hospital there thing is to do that by yourself, at least for me. really goes is if you really want to consider and they took me in for the surgery. I ended up Roscoe [Mitchell] gets up every day, for the fifty- yourself adept at a certain tradition, can you do that coming back too soon from rehab and that’s why five years since I met him, he’s still doing some of

26 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 27 I’ve seen the dudes that made drums out of stools. FDM: It ain’t that dramatic, it’s the same esthetic. Famoudou Don Moye They’d be sitting around and get off the stool and The body of work is there, we don’t have to di- the top of the stool was a drum head. They had a verge from that. You see, our position was not whole stool drum ensemble. Then I’ve seen other replacement, it’s just that you have special guests, the same exercises in a similar order. He may cats that had shoe drums, they had a drum attached you add new elements, but your construct don’t change the selection of the instruments, but when to the shoe, and they would play and dance. There change. It ain’t who’s gonna replace Lester, it’s not he’d come to Chicago and stay at the house – 6:30 were also the cardboard carton cats that would a replacement, it’s a special guest to come in and piccolo, 7:30 clarinet, 8:30 alto, 9:00 breakfast, and make things out of that material. I also saw an en- express himself in this construct. The volume of 10:00 tenor. That’s the cycle, and Lester [Bowie] semble called the Ramadan Horns whose wind the work is so big, most people come in and have had the same exercises he did and used them all the instruments were made of car and truck mufflers. to contribute to that. We ain’t looking for somebo- time for years. These are the people I was closest There were also people who made instruments out dy to take us in another direction. We still got work to. Even though I worked in all kinds of other of saws and large gourds. There’s a whole world of to do, man. [Laughs] The work ain’t finished, the groups outside the Art Ensemble. I wasn’t as close strange instruments out there. You can go to almost legacy is there so all we gotta do is focus on that. with Joseph [Jarman] and his personal thing of how any indigenous culture and you will find these non- We all had our own side bands where we could he did his development. [Malachi] Favors was an professional, side of the road cats that have been express ourselves in the way we wanted, our goal unknown element. He was old-school, didn’t tell playing music their whole life. They come home was when we came back, bring some new stuff, you nothing until you made a mistake. He got me from their work and they might play until 10 come back fresh. good on bass players though because a good drum- o’clock at night or later. I’ve seen that in Guade- mer gotta be able to play with all kinds of bass loupe, Haiti, Mexico, India, Sierra Leone, JI: Well the band does seem different these days. players, and then you go to piano players, and then Morocco, Guinea, and Spain. Nobody got no mo- Nobody is painting their faces or dressing up and you go into the interpretation and phrasing of the ney, but that’s the strength of the human spirit. the use of small instruments has lessened. frontline pretty boys. [Laughs] I like trios because People are gonna beat on something. Just like the everybody’s got to throw down. Duos,xxxxxxxxxx you got to whole hip-hop phenomenon and rap, to me, that’s FDM: I paint my face sometimes, it’s the feeling. really throw down. The music doesn’t lie, only an extension of the demise of music education in As far as the small instruments, tell that to Home- humans lie. If you’re dealing with truth, don’t mess the public schools: no instruments, no music pro- land Security or Customs or the airlines that want with human beings [Laughs], sooner or later lies grams, no bands - so kids just made themselves be to charge you two hundred dollars for an extra bag. are gonna come up, but I know the music does not the band and the instruments. Back in the day, we had cargo containers, flight lie. cases and international carnets. It wasn’t all the JI: What’s been your journey from a starting musi- hassles of standing in a check-in line and trying to JI: Has your view of America changed since you cian to one of prominence? explain why you’re traveling with a set of drums moved away and do you plan to move back in the and percussion. Now it’s a thousand dollars to do future? FDM: When I got out of school everybody I met that. So that was by choice because we paid for all had a band or had been in the Army bands. Roscoe of that equipment, for all the years we did it, and it FDM: I’m a citizen of the world. I just try to was in the Army band with Albert Ayler and Eddie wasn’t exorbitant. We could have made a lot more maximize the situation and just try to be Harris at the same time. [Laughs] There were not a money if we hadn’t committed to the thing of tra- comfortable wherever I am, however, these are lot of accessible music conservatories so musicians veling with our own equipment. strange times. But I’m in constant communication went into the Army band and went home from with the musicians and friends. So I don’t buy into there, and they just got their ass kicked every day JI: How are new members of the ensemble cho- this shit about expatriatism. I’m an African- practicing and playing morning, noon, and night. sen? American, it ain’t gonna be, ‘I’m never going When I went to Chicago, there were still five back.’ I’ve spent the majority of my life traveling playing levels, starting with the at home level, then FDM: We just recruit all the time. I’ve got a per- and I’m not gonna get caught up with the hoax of there was the scrub jamming practicing level, then cussionist, Dudu Kouaté from Senegal and a per- going somewhere to the perfect place. This shit is there was the level where you might start playing cussionist/griot Baba Sissoko from Mali. Roscoe’s horrible everywhere, man - France, England, Rus- house parties or weddings, then the next level you got Fred Berry, who goes all the way back to his sia, Africa, Asia and beyond. It’s the whole new play in a real club, and then you go to the top level groups of the early ‘60s with Malachi Favors. world order. My roots are in the United States. where you be playing with the big boys. I went We’re always looking. We’ve never put a There ain’t no feelin’ like the feeling I have in the through all of that, and there was always tutelage restriction on ourselves. We just figure out a way to States when I look at the different traditions. I can’t from the top cats. I was working with six different pay for it. imagine committing to life in another culture, it bands, seven days a week, and rehearsing all day, would be a denial of all the positive elements in my every day when I got to Detroit, Paris, New York, JI: Let’s talk a bit about your pre-AEOC days. life. and Chicago. I was a country boy, it wasn’t like While going to school at Detroit’s Wayne State that in Rochester so I had to get out of there. I University in 1966, you spent time with the Detroit JI: What’s the most unexpected item or thing would have never got that there. I left New York Artists Workshop, a community organization co- you’ve ever used to make music on? because I found a house in Chicago, twice as big founded by political activist John Sinclair which for half as much. We were always committed to gave you exposure to a number of the Beat FDM: Tire irons, brake springs, brake drums, quality of life and not just making every gig and Generation poets Amiri Baraka, Gregory Corso, bamboo etc…When I was working in Napoli with a then getting home and don’t have nothing. Robert Creeley and Alan Ginsberg. How did these group named Bungt Bangt led by percussionist poets influence you? Maurizio Capone, they made all their instruments JI: You’re best known for your forty-seven-year from found objects and trash at the junkyard. By collaboration with the Art Ensemble of Chicago. FDM: Through their rhythms of life, their vision Napoli being a fishing port, they got fishing crates, Now that original members Lester Bowie and Mal- of society, their relation to the reality of all the Styrofoam, oil drums, and all the debris and detri- achi Favors have passed, and Joseph Jarman is bullshit that was going on at that time in white tus from the shipping industry, and then made ins- infirm, the band has undergone dramatic altera- American culture. That was before all the Ameri- truments out of all of that. Oh yeah, there’s also the tions. In addition to original members Roscoe can white kids went crazy. The poets were cultural side of the road cats, that’s what I call them. In Mitchell and yourself, the personnel that is current- beacons of a time to come when people would start many indigenous cultures, there are guys playing ly touring includes trumpeter Hugh Ragin, bassists using their brains more reflectively. The Beats on the side of the roads that’ll make an instrument Junius Paul and Jaribu Shahid, and cellist Tomeka played with musicians during poetry readings. I out of anything. When I was in Sierra Leone, West Reid. What makes this band, the way it is com- can’t say that the poets effected my playing be- Africa, I saw the dudes there making instruments prised today, the Art Ensemble of Chicago? cause I was listening to Miles, Coltrane, Duke and out of olive oil or coconut oil cans. They cut them others, but it was more of their lifestyle that had its into strips and made thumb pianos out of that. Then (Continued on page 29)

28 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 went to the local spot in the Latin Quarter and there getting ready to make history by going forward into Famoudou Don Moye was Art Taylor, Mal Waldron, Marion Brown and the unknown future. Of course I wasn’t gonna say Frank Wright all siting at the café in the afternoon no. It was significant because of the range of the having coffee and a beer, and then Johnny Griffin material and all the stuff they were doing. We (Continued from page 28) walked by. [Laughs] So I said, ‘Ok, here I am!’ rehearsed every day at the big house they rented in effect. Their words were good for the brain, put the suburbs of Paris. Lester had his wife, Fontella something on your mind. They turned me onto JI: Talk about the Paris scene when you got there? Bass and four kids with him and two dogs so it was other writers from around the world and from diffe- a family environment plus a work situation. rent social origins. FDM: Frank Wright and his band, we all stayed in Rehearsing every day was mandatory. It was the the same hotel. Me and his drummer, Muhammad formula for serious research. We warmed up on JI: You also met Timothy Leary, the famous LSD Ali, got to be good buddies. I was like the little kid twenty songs at a time and every couple days we’d pioneer. with those guys, hanging out with them all the change the list of songs. We’d do all kinds of songs time. I also had my gigs with the dance classes – ragtime, blues, country western, R & B, straight- FDM: I can tell you the last meeting with him. there. Paris was filled with African drummers so I ahead bebop, ballads and calypso. They were all [Laughs] I was in Tangiers, Morocco in 1969 with had some serious competition. We used to rehearse really into percussion so we’d have a period every the Detroit Free Jazz band after we had done some at the American Center for Students and Artists in day when we’d work on rhythms and percussion productions with Julian Beck and Judith Malina’s Montparnasse, Paris. That was a good place for techniques. Lester Bowie’s first wife and vocalist Living Theater in Europe. We rented a house and shows, and I would see Slide Hampton, Art Taylor, Fontella Bass was often working with us, so that Timothy Leary shows up in town with all these Johnny Griffin, Dizzy Reese, Philly Joe Jones, who was a good experience with that level of vocalist rich, white hippie kids, talking about how they was my good buddy, and Randy Weston. Paris was because she was an accomplished gospel and R & were gonna have a new ‘LSD Nation’ on the the center at that time. Albert Ayler, Cecil Taylor B singer. For me, this was the real deal. It wasn’t beaches of Tangiers [Laughs]. The Moroccan Cus- and Archie Shepp among others came through like we were studying, we were DOING this! We toms and Border Police showed upxxxxxxxxxx and said, “Oh, there. Sunny Murray was around, trumpeter Alan were playing music at the highest level. hell no, not here!” We got ourselves out of town in Shorter. I was friends with ten different drummers the next days, down further south to Essaouira, and everybody was working. JI: It’s ironic that you became a member of the Art because they were busting everybody that didn’t Ensemble of Chicago yet had never been to look right in Tangiers as a result of Leary showing JI: You became especially close with drummer Chicago. up. At that time, Tangiers had a pretty good jazz Art Taylor while in Paris. scene because Randy Weston had a club there, FDM: Well, yeah. [Laughs] They had several guys which is one of the reasons we ended up there. FDM: I used to go by his house all the time when from Chicago that were on the short list of drum- he was in town and we would play rudiments and mers in ’67 after Phillip Wilson left to go play with JI: After the Detroit Free Jazz band disbanded in just drum talk. He even gave me a set of drums. I Paul Butterfield. Phillip said, “I’ll be right back, Copenhagen you relocated to Rome. How did you paid him 500 francs, 100 dollars at the time, but it I’m just going to make this quick tour,” and he join forces with Steve Lacy there? was like super deluxe, top of the line Sonor drums. never came back. He ended up playing at He was a Sonor endorsee and he said he wanted me Woodstock and beyond. They considered drum- FDM: Oh, I did all of my research at that time on to have those drums. Art Taylor, Randy Weston, mers Jerome Cooper, who was buddies with Ros- coe, Steve McCall, and Thurman Barker. There were about ten cats around Paris and Chicago that “We rehearsed every day at the big house they were possibilities, and then I showed up. I think the hook was my hand percussion. I hit it off pretty rented in the suburbs of Paris. Lester had his good with Malachi [Favors]. There was a concert at the American Center where I played with the Steve wife, Fontella Bass and four kids with him and Lacy Quartet on the same bill as the Frank Wright Quartet and the Art Ensemble. We did our set and two dogs so it was a family environment plus then the Art Ensemble was playing, and when they got to an open section with percussion, I took my a work situation. Rehearsing every day was conga drums to an open area next to Favors, put them in place, grabbed a nearby chair, sat down, mandatory. It was the formula for serious and started improvising with them. They looked sideways at me but Favors told me to keep playing research. We warmed up on twenty songs at and that’s how we first got started. I was in the right place at the right time. They later came to a time and every couple days we’d change watch me play again at a gig with Steve Lacy and the list of songs.” saw that I could play trap drums too. I did some gigs and tours with them before Lester came and asked me into the group. who was doing what and where in Europe. I knew Memphis Slim, Johnny Griffin and Kenny Clarke there weren’t a lot of drummers in Rome and I got were the heroes for all the young cats in Paris for JI: Was that your sly way of auditioning for the there because I had a gig set up there and an apart- how to get through the European stuff on top. empty drum chair? ment. Once I got there, as per my usual routine, I There was a whole scene there alternative to being went to all of the dance schools and studios in town in New York. FDM: Of course, I was hoping to throw my hat in because in those days they needed live music for the ring next to the ten other drummers vying to get their movement classes. I did that in any town that JI: While in Paris you took over the vacant drum- the gig with The Art Ensemble of Chicago. I’d go to. I worked with the Norman Davis Dan- mer chair for the Art Ensemble of Chicago in 1970. cers, The Bob Curtis Dancers, trumpeter Enrico How did you get offered the band and what was the JI: How did Lacy react to you telling him you had Rava, bassist Marcello Melis, singer Archie Savage environment like at the French farm house the band taken up with another band? and saxophonist Gato Barbieri, and then I met lived in? Steve Lacy. He rehearsed every day but he wasn’t FDM: I told him that the Art Ensemble of Chicago working that much. I hung out with him for several FDM: Lester Bowie said, “If you want to be in this wanted me to tour with them on a regular basis and months until we both decided to leave for Paris. As band are you prepared to take your place in the I asked for his advice. His response was, “Are you a matter of fact, I paid his train ticket to Paris be- history of music? Otherwise, do not fuck with us!” nuts or bullshitting me young man? You’d do best cause he was broke. First day we got to Paris, we That was his mindset at that time – they were

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 29 30 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 this? They talked about how the Art Ensemble Leaders was an extension of me wanting to play a Famoudou Don Moye went to Europe and came back with some dude different kind of music. I had been playing around who’s not even from Chicago. They were saying, New York, Europe and Chicago with Chico Free- “Who is this dude,” and I was saying, ‘You will man and one day we sat down and came up with a (Continued from page 29) find out.’ [Laughs] I had to brush back from the construct based on the cooperative ideals of the Art to go on about your business while you’ve got cats. Even Jack DeJohnette came in and tried to Ensemble of Chicago. Philippe De Visscher, the some business to go on to!” turn me into a punching bag, and I punched back. Belgian agent that was booking the Art Ensemble Chicago is the “punching bag tradition.” They spar decided he wanted to do an “All-star band,” JI: Would you talk about life with the AEOC, es- with you to see if you’ve got heart. You can’t go in whatever that means, so me and Chico sat down pecially back in the ‘70s and ‘80s? They were half stepping. Fear is not acceptable. A lot of times, and did a list of people we’d like to perform with. known for presenting very animated stage presenta- the older cats would try to make you flinch and you Our first choice for piano was Don Pullen, but he tions which included at least once, Joseph Jarman had to stay there and take it, and then the next time was too busy with the Don Pullen/George Adams ripping off his clothes until he was completely they would say, ‘Nobody told you to talk, man, go Quartet so we called Hilton Ruiz, who stayed for a naked. get me some cigarettes and get back to this rehear- short time until he got too busy. So we called Kirk sal on time!’ Lightsey, who I never imagined I’d be working FDM: Jarman did that in 1969 at a big rock festival with because he was like one of the “big boys” in the north of France before my time in the band. JI: You’re saying that Jack DeJohnette challenged when I was in school in Detroit, one of the He was playing guitar, doing a parody on the social you? “men.” [Laughs] Lightsey said he’d do it and then element of rock & roll, and during his solo, he we called Don Cherry, Arthur Blythe and Cecil started taking his clothes off. That was an historic FDM: Yes. Steve McCall challenged me, and Phil- McBee. We really had eyes to hire Lester Bowie moment, a direct extension of his theatrical activi- lip Wilson, and Thurman Barker and Jerome but he was too busy with the early version of Brass ties. He was doing all kinds of theater pieces in Cooper, and Robert Shy. All of the drummers, Fantasy, Jack DeJohnette, and the Art Ensemble. Chicago and Paris. At that time there was a great that’s part of the deal. They said, “You look like He did join us later once Don Cherry committed to interdisciplinary activity between music, dance, you can play. You got heart?” There was no Old and New Dreams. The Leaders was a theater, creative writing and painting. Everyone physical contact, just psych stuff. All those cats cooperative band without a leader. It differed from performed together. were good at heart, it’s not a negative thing, but the the Art Ensemble in that everyone cooperated on music tradition is precious. This was in the days doing tasks but they weren’t collectively paying for JI: The group traveled in a bus with two guard before all the jazz schools. The jazz school I went anything. With the Art Ensemble, fifty percent of dogs and shotguns and rifles. to was in the neighborhood. all profits went into the pot to pay operating expenses, everybody was a leader and we all paid FDM: That was the Cab Calloway legacy. Cab told JI: The Art Ensemble did some joint touring with in the same amount. us how back in the ‘30s and ‘40s he had to rent a Max Roach’s Double Quartet. Did you have much sleeping car because they could never stay in ho- of a relationship with Roach? JI: In 1983 you were part of a percussion quartet tels. Under the floor boards, they had rifles and with Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves and Kenny pistols because once you got out of the big cities, it FDM: I was watching Max every night and we got Clarke that recorded Pieces of Time. Would you was like the Wild West. You had to carry guns to to be good buddies until I walked his daughter talk about that special collective? protect yourselves. We bought a 1951 Greyhound home one night. He drove up in a taxi and said, bus after we played at the 1972 Ann Arbor Jazz “Okay, that’s the end of that shit!” [Laughs] We FDM: That was Kenny Clarke’s last recording and Blues Festival. We went straight to the Grey- were just going back to the hotel, the string quartet session. Andrew put that all together. Andrew hound used bus lot in Detroit and got our bus. It was walking too, then Max got out of the taxi and called me and said, “We have to do this because looked just like the bus that Louis Armstrong, Bing walked with us. Oh, boy, we laughed about that! Kenny’s coming to New York!” Kenny was Cosby and Bob Hope traveled around with in the Chico Hamilton was on that tour too, and for my hesitant to do that recording with us because he On the Road movies during the ‘50s. taste, Chico Hamilton was one of the baddest so- said doing all that percussion wasn’t “his thing,” loists at that time. Also one of the all-time drum- but then Max [Roach], his buddy, stepped in and JI: Did you ever have to pull the shotguns out? mers for me was Joe Dukes. Did you ever hear Joe told him, “Go ahead and make that money.” Max Dukes with Brother Jack McDuff? That was a bad was driving Kenny around in New York then FDM: Yeah, hell yeah! Four o’clock in the morn- dude there. because Kenny was sick. Kenny was great, he was ing, up in the countryside of Michigan, our bus really humble. broke down. We were out there in the middle of JI: You performed with other prominent and influ- night, waiting for the sun to come up, and all of a ential bands in the mid-‘80s. How was it playing JI: What current projects are you involved in? sudden, all these lights appeared and the white drums with eight brass players in Lester Bowie’s vigilantes were there with their guns. They said, Brass Fantasy? FDM: I’m studying, studying, studying. I’m “What you boys doing out here?” We said, ‘We’re working a lot with Archie Shepp’s projects and I here minding our business. What you doing?’ And FDM: It was great because I came up in drum and work with the Kirk Lightsey Trio. I’ve got my we had our guns and the dogs were barking and bugle corps as a kid. We were national champions Percussion Ensemble: MMusic, with MMusic stan- they said, “Well, look here, Jethro over there, his in the early sixties. ding for the countries of origin for the six percus- cousin is a mechanic, and in the morning he can fix sionists in the band - Morocco, Mali, United States, y’all all up and you can get the hell on out of here.” JI: You were also a founding member of the jazz Senegal, Italy and Cuba. I also have some projects We said, ‘Thanks a lot Bubba, we’ll see you at six supergroup The Leaders [featuring players such as that I’ve been working with to keep my edge. I’m o’clock.’ It’s a good thing we had our guns because Chico Freeman, Don Cherry. Arthur Blythe, Kirk playing with a good trumpet player named Chris- it could have turned out differently. Lightsey and Lester Bowie]. What was the concept tophe Leloil who I met in Shepp’s band. I’m also for that band and how was membership deter- working with a Martinique saxophone player, Re- JI: Joining the AEOC and not being from Chicago, mined? my Abram and a young multi-instrumentalist na- were there problems for you upon arriving in Chi- med Simon Sieger. There’s not that much work. I cago with the band? FDM: Because the Art Ensemble rehearsed and don’t jump out there like that – I say, ‘Say No and worked so much, we encouraged each other to Get Mo.’ I just pick my spots but I’ve got enough FDM: I quickly became immersed deeply into the make damn sure that everybody got all of their pet work going on. I’d be doing the same thing if I was Chicago tradition just by virtue of the fact that I projects done during the Art Ensemble’s down time living anywhere else. The idea isn’t to run around arrived with the Art Ensemble. If I had arrived on so as to get that off their chests. Everybody had so much. You’ve got to stay focused and a lot of my own, it would have taken me years. I met a lot elements that they wanted to look into that would times touring takes you out of focus unless you’re of the characters and personalities from the scene not have been successful inside of all the music fortunate enough to be doing your own thing most because they were coming to see who the hell is that the Art Ensemble was trying to do. So The (Continued on page 32)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 31 (Continued from page 31) Steve Turre, Don Alias, Andy Gonzalez, and Toti- You are one of my heroes and I hope I can make of the time. I’ve never been the one answering the co the singer. I bought that record in the subway at you proud to continue the tradition of this special phone to be a hired gun but I tip my hat to the cats 43rd Street in New York. For me, Don Alias is ki- music from Africa and Black America. When I that can get up and go out the door, going to a dif- lling on that. listen to your playing, your vocabulary is very ferent gig every night, the way the conditions are large, it sounds like it comes from a lot of places. Kirk Lightsey (piano) said: “Moye is one of my now. My real focus is to stay home because I’ve Can you explain how you developed such a large best friends. We talk every day and he is still one seen so many musicians that were never home so drumming vocabulary? of my favorite drummers in the world! My question they didn’t have no home, and all they’d talk about is what memories do you have of The Leaders, and FDM: A large influence came from the Art Ensem- was music. I say, ‘Man, I’ve got enough music to I wonder what you have to say about how that great ble and the way we used to rehearse all kinds of last me.’ band ended?” music. We’d always do twenty different songs as a

warmup every day and change them often to incor- JI: What are your guilty pleasures? FDM: Ok, I’m not going to go into the details of porate different types of styles. Once I got to Chi- the ending, but the beginning and the duration was cago I played with a lot of different people. One FDM: I’m supposed to answer that? [Laughs] I’ve great. Playing with Kirk and with Cecil McBee was group was called the Pharaohs, which was founded got hobbies but I’m not answering that! The last a real challenge, they had been playing with each by Phil Cohran. A number of those people went on three houses that I’ve had, I’ve designed the other since the Army in the ‘50s. They came out of to become part of Earth, Wind and Fire. There kitchen, so that’s a pleasure, but that’s not guilt. I Detroit and did all those piano-bass duos around were six percussionists in that group and that inspi- cook all the time. I like to do wood refinishing and New York because there was a city ordinance that red me to form my own percussion ensemble. I was gardening. I also do a lot of archiving. Cats used to you couldn’t have a drummer in a lot of clubs. also working with African dance companies and laugh at me when I would go out after the concert Consequently, the rhythmic foundation and the modern dance companies. I often worked with the with my sack and get all the ticket stubs and intensity and strength of all of Kirk and Cecil’s duo legendary Von Freeman, which I consider a feather concert programs, stealing posters off the walls gins were really solid because they had played a lot in my cap, and also the great piano player Willie before the concert started so that I’d have a whole without a drummer. When they played, all the Pickens. The great Chicago drummer Wilbur collection of memorabilia. rhythms were there, so I had to put myself inside of Campbell started calling me to sub for him. I was that equation as a trio and rhythm section to studying with Muhal [Richard Abrams] and JI: The last questions have been given to me to ask compliment the band, because if you missed a beat, playing with the AACM Big Band as well as co- you from other artists: they’d run over your ass. I had to learn to play with leading many projects with percussionist Enoch those masterful artists. Williamson. I was also working with poets, actors, Roscoe Mitchell (multi-instruments) asked: “Now dancers and theater groups. I was playing with that the Art Ensemble of Chicago is approaching its Pheeroan akLaff (drums) asked: “Why did you percussionists from Africa, Cuba, Puerto Rico, 50th Anniversary in 2019, what are your thoughts decide to become facile in European languages, Columbia, and beyond. I also had contact over the moving forward?” while many expatriate musicians did not?” years with all kinds of drummers. I was fortunate to

FDM: That goes back to grammar school. I lived have an open mind or have my mind opened, and FDM: To consolidate all of our experiences and in a building in upstate New York in the ‘50s, after have had concentrated exposure to a lot of different get up the next day and go forward, don’t go back. World War II, and there was a whole mix of cul- musical disciplines. Roscoe’s going forward and I’m just keeping in tures who were there because work was available. step with him. You’ve got to get up and do some- We lived in the projects and on my floor we had Jamaaladeen Tacuma (bass) asked: “How did you thing. We’ve got an expanded format for 2019 and Greek, African American and German families, become involved and inspired in fashion and beyond. and also a good mix at school, Italians, Polish and personal style, a passion that you enjoyed in the Puerto Rican. We had a choir at the church that past and currently still. How was that passion Hugh Ragin (trumpet) asked: “When a student is sang songs in many different languages. So, I heard transferred to the visual and performance concepts learning African rhythms, how important is learn- all these different languages every day. I studied of the Art Ensemble of Chicago? I mean the Art ing the dance and the language of the culture that Latin when I was in high school. I’m learning to Ensemble’s performances were crazy with Bowie produced those rhythms?” comfortably speak French, English, German, walking around in a lab coat and Malachi’s and Spanish, Italian, Wolof, Bambara, Arabic and some your face painted, it was definitely visual.” FDM: Critical, because it’s a multisensory expe- Russian. I just deal with whatever it takes to ask FDM: I’m an adherent to the old style, old school, rience. I tell my drum students, ‘If you can’t dance where’s my money, [Laughs] where’s the hotel, of dressing for the occasion. There are several dif- yourself, how you gonna play dance music?’ If what time is the gig, and what time is the next ferent ways to reflect that in your choice of dress. you’re gonna play rhumba and salsa, rhythms, flight? It costs a whole lot of money when you You have the tribal influence, the spiritual in- grooves, and whatever else you hear, you’ve gotta don’t know what you’re talking about. People don’t fluence, the ritual influence, the social influence. dance and sing through your instrument. The music always know that I often understand their language. All of these things were reflected in my vision of is in the language and the language is in the music So, I really get to hear what they’re saying on the the world around me. The people that I saw coming and the music and the language are in the drums. side. to town to play when I was coming up, they dres- Dan Weiss (drums) asked: “I would love to know a Pheeroan akLaff also asked: “Do you believe that sed. It wasn’t just jeans and t-shirts. My exposure handful of your favorite recordings and why you U.S. audiences have ‘caught up’ to the level of to people dressing for performance stayed with me like them.” curiosity, receptivity, or critical analysis offered by and as I moved out into my own consciousness I started seeing styles like the Native American aes- FDM: Le Carnaval des Animaux by Camille Saint- European listeners in the 20th Century, regarding thetic, the African aesthetic, the Indo-Asian aesthe- Saëns, which is a cello piece, because I was a African American creative music paradigms?” tic and the world wide Indigenous aesthetic. I had a violin student for a little while. I listen to a lot of FDM: Whew, that’s a mouthful! I wouldn’t say mixture of all these influences from traveling Toumani Diabaté, the kora master/griot from Mali. caught up, Americans often just don’t have an awa- around, meeting tailors and crafts people, buying Another of my all-time favorites is Albert Collins reness of other cultures. Everything is focused on stuff and combining elements. In conjunction with & the Icebreakers, that’s Texas blues. The the American thing. I’ve found Europeans and the all of that was the Art Ensemble’s encouraging Mendelssohn Violin Concerto and the Tchaikovsky Japanese to be a lot more open but in the States every member to have their own look. Everyone Violin Concerto. I used to listen to them every day you’ll have some magic moments when you least was focused on dressing and preparing their ap- when I was in high school. I had a record with expect it then you say, ‘Now this is the real deal! pearance for the stage and beyond. There were them on the same album. Charles Mingus’ Black This is the American feeling here!’ Any other au- performances when I first got in the band that Saint and the Sinner Lady, John Coltrane’s, Kulu dience, in any other place, would not understand everyone painted their faces including Lester, Ros- Se Mama. I would also have to say Mongo this like that. coe and occasionally even Fontella Bass when she Santamaria’s Yambu and Tito Puente’s Puente in performed with us. Percussion. Another one that really inspired me J.T. Lewis (drums) said: “Maestro Moye it was an was Totico y su Rhomberos with Jerry Gonzalez, honor to be asked to be included in your interview.   

32 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 The stage is tense for Shorter’s “Ping- Pong”; Cedar’s comp explains the title. FEATUREFEATURE Shorter begins with the quote of “While My Lady Sleeps”, then runs through jazzed corri- dors – decent, but we’ve heard it before. Bet- ter is Hubbard, who dances around the scale Art Blakey with deft precision – Fuller succeeds him in mid-chorus, and continues the thought with His Life & Music — Part 7 lively steps. The end is the best part, where Hubbard screams as the rhythm freaks out – it’s a Ferris wheel out of control. No solo real- By John R. Barrett, Jr. he is a storm, Shorter is a spring wind, puffing ly stands out; the tune is the star of this one. steadily but softly. His turn is one long varia- “I Didn’t Know What Time It Was” puts The Messengers opened 1963 in Japan, tion of a compact phrase; as Walton’s vamp the spotlight on Shorter, who starts with rest- their first appearance in that country. On their returns, he moves like Trane for an exquisite less, rippling patterns, as Coltrane would Tokyo concert of January 2, they played be- mood. Fuller sounds a little pugnacious, pac- sound on A Love Supreme. Slower than most hind singer Johnny Hartman – the first time a ing with tiny steps. His notes are rounded, renditions, the tune is a walk through the rain: vocalist appeared with the group. (This event sweet, and long – his is the most coherent leisurely, sad, cold, and beautiful. Cedar’s would go unrecorded; their first disc with a solo, and the most consistent. Wait for the end chords are glassy and gorgeous; we don’t hear singer would be 1964’s Kyoto, made with -theme, where the horns trade tiny solos, the other horns ‘til the end, when they roar Blakey’s cousin Wellington.) Spring was Fuller does a long quote of “It Never Entered with big-band dynamics. Because of Fuller’s spent in a lengthy tour, as Blakey hit San My Mind”, and Walton sounds exactly like presence, Wayne didn’t get the solo time he Francisco in February, Birdland in March, Tyner on “My Favorite Things” … like the had on past projects – this rectifies it, and Europe through April, and back to the Jazz best fantasies, this one comes true. how. He ends it with a rusty trill in the image Corner on June 16, where a live album was Fuller’s “Time Off” is a racer, allowing of Coltrane, and soon launches into “Ginza”, made called Ugetsu. Blakey and the trombonist to show their chops another standard of his. The ensemble harmo- Their final record at Birdland, nies are rich, the feel propulsive – the crowd is receptive and the sound Wayne’s solo has a worried feel in is warm – they also had a new batch its frantic lines, a tough sort of fra- of tunes, many composed in Japan. gility. Hubbard opts for diagonal “One by One”, a landmark for lines, in a persistent march upward: Shorter, has a prim theme that cymbals roam free, and Walton is quickly turns sassy – the cue comes the real McCoy. Curtis’ effort is his from Blakey, thumping the toms best of the evening, where muscular with insistence. The longer the phrases match his tough tone. horns play, the more their harmo- Workman has a spindly part, nies fan out; Wayne turns hopeful matched well with Cedar’s com- on his solo, moving up with a bitter- ping; the end-theme tops the entry, sweet tang. Hubbard is peaceful on and the disc sadly ends. Almost the choruses, flamboyant on the perfect from beginning to end, this bridge; his highlight is a pleading may be the Messengers album to note, held for six bars. Walton’s bit hear first. recalls Booby Timmons in its Three more tunes were record- breathless blues; Fuller has a great ed this night, to appear on the CD tone, but does little with it. A won- reissue of Ugetsu: a cursory take on derful opener, this signifies the “The Theme”, Shorter’s slow ballad group is ready … the crowd is cer- “Eva” (all twisting melodies and tainly ready to applaud. chorded horns) and the Monk- During his time with Blakey, inspired “The High Priest”. Work- Cedar Walton did not write many man starts with a nervous bounce, tunes … but those he did were the horns sketch the uneasy melody. priceless. On his first rehearsal with the at high speed. Wayne does the same, making The drums are big here: mostly toms, with the group, Walton brought in a thing called like Rollins through the steady flood of occasional cymbal for emphasis. Curtis “Mosaic”; it became the title cut of their next chords. It is inherently logical, flawlessly per- blooms on his solo, a warm flurry of delicate album. The same thing happened here: Ce- formed – when Art does his double-time rim- notes. His wavelike patterns are followed by dar’s lone composition was penned in Tokyo, shot, he’s actually slower than Wayne is! Walton, at which time the cymbals do their its title coming from the Japanese word for Freddie begins at that speed, and goes from job. Wayne spins a weary circle, giving way “fantasy”. At once the mood is set, when Ce- there: the opening flood of high notes will to Hubbard’s fast flight. Art does what he can dar launches a Tyner-like vamp, simple yet stun you. Art is having the time of his life, to drive him faster, and then there’s Cedar, lavish. raining down cymbals like mad; Cedar’s elab- dispensing elegance with the speed of a player Freddie offers the theme with gentle orate solo is matched by Reggie’s manic piano. You’re amazed at their skill, their grace, then blasts off for an athletic solo. His walk. Very few groups could keep this pace wealth of compositions … and wonder how a notes are limitless, flapping like butterfly for five minutes; the crowd recognizes this, tune like “The High Priest” could be not good wings as Workman makes a sinewy walk. If and rewards accordingly. enough. Such things will happen with stand-

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 33 played. It’s interesting that both Stitt (the grit- chords with a steadily marching cymbal. Art Blakey, Part 7 ty competitor) and Tyner (the dazzling sophis- Sonny’s got a syrupy tone, well-suited for ticate) play the opposite of their usual roles. things like this; he quotes “Lucky So-and-So”, ards this high. Davis gets another solo, filled with broad then spins dizzying circles for his finish. In the mid-‘Sixties Art’s recording sched- swoops and elliptical phrases; on the second McCoy’s effort is somewhat clunky, and it ule slowed down considerably; three months chorus Sonny comes in, hitting a riff like a car ends rather suddenly – decent in parts, but it passed between Ugetsu and his next album, A horn. This is the door-knock of the title: an seems like an afterthought. Jazz Message. Title to the contrary, this does inviting sound, and an inviting tune. “Sunday”, a Jule Styne standard, is given not feature the Messengers, but rather an intri- “Summertime” is made for Stitt, its chord the soft touch by Stitt, who includes bits of guing one-time quartet. Two of the players structure ideal for his lyricism. He does the “Too Close for Comfort” and “There’s a had never recorded with Blakey: McCoy theme simply, with the tiniest hint of vibrato – Small Hotel”. There are no notes, rather a Tyner, already famous with Coltrane, and Art his rasp deepens at the solo, where he un- stream of vibrato-filled sound – there are Davis, the second bassist on a rejected take of leashes a flamboyant trill. Art’s snare keeps times when he sounds like Stan Getz! Davis “A Love Supreme.” The fourth member, Son- pattering like soft rainfall; the brushes are gives an intricate twang to his walk, some- ny Stitt, had worked with Art – but hadn’t constant, working a light mist on a big cym- what buried by the cymbals; McCoy’s turn is done so since 1950! Cut on September 5 for bal. sleek, and all the notes twinkle. It is followed the Impulse label, this could have been a dis- The most noteworthy part of Tyner’s solo by a fast “The Song Is You”, where the alto aster … but considering the people involved, is that he uses nothing from his 1960 version, coos one moment and groans the next. Sonny you know otherwise. made with John Coltrane for the My Favorite fires on all cylinders: his solo is a breathless The band earns its keep with the opening Things album. While that effort was an echo- sentence, where a thousand ideas are linked song, a blues called “Café”. Davis begins with washed onslaught of chords, this take is inti- effortlessly. a baião-like figure, seemingly ¾ and 4/4 at the mate, mixing cocktail phrases with patches of Stitt does not employ his usual quotes or same time. Blakey provides some hard sticks, silence. He has totally changed his approach devices at any point on this album, doing the establishing the time as 4/4; the theme comes for this record – while Tyner was aggressive whole thing fresh – he seems motivated by the from Tyner, as a vaguely sinister Latin dance. After this he steps back, providing thick chords for Stitt’s relaxed solo. “As the Jazz Messengers entered their Far smoother than his norm, Sonny hums at mid-tempo, a chain of sly, interlocked second decade, stability was replaced by notes. A few choruses in he begins to move: there’s a passionate trill, an urgent rush, and turbulence. Recording offers declined as the constant bombs from Blakey. This solo is well organized, more cerebral than you expect music was changing direction; touring from Stitt – Tyner begins his by chiming the high notes, almost like a celeste. The third became a larger part of the schedule, chorus comes with block chords, while keeping the high notes; the fifth does the same putting further demands on the musicians. with thicker harmonies, and it ends just as it gets good. Davis’ turn seems without meter, a Stays in the group became briefer, especially cluster of raw, high, sharply-plucked notes. Some passages sound like Oscar Pettiford at at saxophone – to no one’s surprise, the cello, others like avant-garde classical music, which Davis also played. The ex- Wayne Shorter was a hard act to follow.” changes are a wicked duel between Stitt (quoting “Topsy” at one juncture) and Blakey with Coltrane, pushing him with energetic new surroundings, as is Tyner. McCoy’s solo (cracking the snares and tuning the toms). The comps, here he steps back and lets Sonny is closer to usual work, with lots of punchy result is a densely-packed six minutes – with work at his own pace. This draws it all togeth- chords – still, there’s a ballroom touch he all the ideas here, they could have played for- er: this isn’t four superstars in the same room, didn’t use often. In one sense, this isn’t a Bla- ever. but a genuine group. key album: the leader never solos, and rarely “Just Knock on My Door” is a more con- Side Two opens with another blues, boo- breaks out of mid-tempo. Viewing it another ventional blues, begun by Davis in a typical gied sweetly by Tyner. Inspired by “After way, it’s a very typical effort – Art gets a walk pattern. Stitt’s on the alto, blowing small Hours”, “Blues Back” combines slow lonely group sound from disparate personalities, and feathery notes; he’s relaxed even on the fast turn familiar elements into memorable music. parts. The tone has light rasp and swaggers Art began 1964 by recording the “jazz

like a tenor – this solo owes nothing to Parker. version” of a Broadway show, the Sammy

The background for this is quite basic: foggy Davis vehicle Golden Boy. While many such cymbals, an unadorned bass-walk, and a cur- “The greatest day in your life albums were made during the ‘Sixties, this is sory comp by Tyner. It fits the mood but and mine is when we take total Blakey’s only foray in the genre. Written by McCoy seems tense, as if he wants to do Lee Adams and Charles Strouse, authors of more. responsibility for our attitudes. Bye Bye Birdie, the show is best known for On his own solo, he does – a rolling bar- That’s the day we truly grow up.” the standard “Yes I Can”; the album featured room blues, with gradually ripening harmo- an 11-piece Messengers, with tuba, French nies. His famous block chords are heard just a horn, and the first-time pairing of Freddie little, but enliven the tune whenever they’re (Continued on page 35) - John Maxwell

34 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 was receiving overtures from Miles Davis; in he would play for the Messengers. Art Blakey, Part 7 late summer he accepted, and played with Morgan left after the group returned to Miles at his Hollywood Bowl concert on Sep- America, sometime in the summer of 1965. (Continued from page 34) tember 18. He too proved difficult to replace: Charles Of his time spent with Blakey, Shorter Tolliver played a few club dates in June, but Hubbard and Lee Morgan. (They would reu- would say “The kind of timing I learned with the band worked much of the summer without nite on Art’s Soulfinger album, cut on May Art was almost always consistent. Building a trumpet. A solution came via Dizzy Gilles- 12, 1965.) This was Morgan’s first date with your expressions into sort of a climax, ending pie, who suggested to Art the name of Chuck the group after a three-year absence; he would your solos on something very worthy of shar- Mangione. return to the group, replacing Hubbard, in ing with or being remembered by everyone. A native of Rochester, New York, Man- March 1964. … [B]efore I left, we were starting to stretch gione was not yet 25, but already had impres- Around the same time as Golden Boy, the out with the arrangements, trying an extended sive credentials: he had recorded four albums regular sextet was making an album at Van kind of thing with three horns in front on with his group The Jazz Brothers, contributed Gelder’s, called Free for All. Recorded on tunes like ‘Mosaic’ and some of the other a song to the repertoire of Cannonball Adder- February 10, the title cut opens with rainfall: things we wrote. But at the time I was getting ley (“Something Different”), and did a stint in sad chords from Walton, paired with drizzling calls from Miles so I figured five years, that’s Woody Herman’s big band. He was not unknown to Blakey, having sat in with the group in its stops through Rochester – Art used this “Lonnie Liston Smith was only in the group a opportunity for housecleaning, hiring Lonnie Liston Smith and tenor Frank Mitchell along few months ... His replacement was a drum with Mangione. Their first engagement was a week on the student, a former child prodigy who claimed Jazzmobile, a moving trailer that brought jazz he hadn’t practiced the piano since 1960! to the streets of New York City. According to Gary Bartz, Blakey was so occupied bringing Keith Jarrett had attended Berklee ... was in new talent that he forgot to tell his current men they had been replaced! “[W]e had come scheduled to study with the renowned Nadia back to New York from a gig in Cincinnati, and all that week we were hearing advertise- Boulanger but decided against it ... he wanted ments on the radio for Art Blakey and the Jazz to see if he could make it as a musician.” Messengers at the Jazzmobile. Neither Hicks [pianist John Hicks] nor I had heard from Bu about this, but we figured ‘Well, we know cymbals. The horns sink their teeth in the ag- enough for a cycle.” He had been with the where we’re working’. So we went up there. gressive theme: the prominent voice is Fuller, group longer than any previous saxophonist – We could hear music from all the way down his tone at its most rubbery. Wayne’s solo is both his sound and compositional style would the block. And there was the Jazzmobile mov- first, and wastes no time: in a gritty tone, he influence those who followed. ing down the street, with Art and a whole new draws curlicues through the active drums. As the Jazz Messengers entered their sec- band!” Swooping noises are next, followed by a ond decade, stability was replaced by turbu- Liston Smith was only in the group a few metallic two-note flutter; the other respond in lence. Recording offers declined as the music months, his stay going unrecorded. His re- a simple riff. One chorus is basically a single was changing direction; touring became a placement was a drum student, a former child held note, blown in the tone – and passion – larger part of the schedule, putting further prodigy who claimed he hadn’t practiced the of Coltrane. His tone turns warmer by the end demands on the musicians. Stays in the group piano since 1960! Keith Jarrett had attended of his solo, with the intensity at its highest; became briefer, especially at saxophone – to Berklee for composition; to earn spare cash he Fuller tries to follow with a series of long no one’s surprise, Wayne Shorter was a hard worked the cocktail lounges of Boston, play- whoops. It’s actually pretty good … it fails act to follow. Through 1965 the chair alternat- ing his first piano in years. He was scheduled only in comparison with what came before. ed between the veteran John Gilmore and a to study with the renowned Nadia Boulanger Hubbard tries for a calmer tack, sounding young Gary Bartz: sometimes they’d play in Paris, but decided against it at the last mo- reserved even as he climbs fast. His lines are together, for a dynamic resembling the ment – before he became a composer, he ordered, a precision surprising at this speed – Griffin/McLean Messengers of ’57. wanted to see if he could make it as a musi- and now he blows fire, emphatic as he trills at It was Gilmore who went on a European cian. the top of his range. This is at least as good as tour in late February; a March 7 stop in Lon- He went to the Village Vanguard on Shorter’s solo, and certainly more melodic. don was filmed at Cine-Tele Studios for the Mondays, sitting in with the Jones-Lewis big Art bunches the cymbals on his solo, goes TV show Jazz 625. Morgan is absolutely on band. On one occasion in late 1965, Jarrett across the rest of the kit, and band finishes fire, spraying notes on high as Gilmore lays a took a ten-minute solo; as he left the stage he with relish. Worth the price of admission for smooth background. He wields a mute on was thanked by two members of the audience this cut alone, Free for All lives up to its “Lament for Stacy”, stepping gingerly among – Tony Scott and Art Blakey. After playing name. the moody chords. The camerawork is inter- with Scott a few times, Keith joined the Mes- Lee Morgan returned to the Messengers esting, focusing sometimes on bassist Victor sengers, for a period of about four months. lineup in early March, starting with a week at Sproles, sometimes on Art’s cymbals – then His stay there was turbulent: he offered play- Shelly’s Manne-Hole. His first new record- you see the band at a distance, peeking behind ing suggestions to the rest of the band, which ings with the group came in April, in sessions the wavering discs. Lee’s eyes seem closed they naturally resented. He was seen as aloof for the albums Pisces and Indestructible. whenever he plays, getting deep into the fab- by the other musicians, who thought him dis- These were made with Wayne Shorter, who ric of the songs – it was one of the last times interested when he wasn’t soloing; Art as-

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 35 -days; he even appeared with Lloyd on a TV most of 1967, Randy Brecker at the end of Art Blakey, Part 7 broadcast, made on February 16. This was not ’68, then followed by Woody Shaw. Many a surprise to the band, some of whom saw stars played with Art in this period, including cribed it to Jarrett’s restlessness. “Sometimes Jarrett as an opportunist – he would join Buster Williams, Kenny Barron, Joe Hender- a man has so much talent he would get bored Lloyd full-time at the beginning of March. son, George Cables, and Joe Farrell – but, waiting for the other cats to catch up …[I]t’s His replacement was Mike Nock, a New apart from some bootlegs, no recordings were like a kid in school; put him in the wrong Zealander who supported Yusef Lateef on the made of them. While the Messengers had al- class and he gets bored.” Live at Pep’s albums. His stay lasted about a ways been a live act, this was especially true Jarrett’s only record with the band would month, followed briefly by Lonnie Liston in the late ‘Sixties. be Buttercorn Lady, recorded at Hermosa Smith and then by Chick Corea, fresh off a Blakey was fond of calling his bandmates Beach’s Lighthouse on January 1, 1966. It stint with Blue Mitchell’s band. One album “my youngsters”, but in late 1970, he was would be reissued in 1995, retitled Get the was made during his stay, but surprisingly proud to make an exception. After a long ca- Message. He has fun with “Buttercorn”, spin- Chick did not appear on it. As with many jazz reer in Europe, the bebop legend Don Byas ning a long, funky calypso. As Art feeds him albums in the late ‘Sixties, Hold On, I’m came back to the United States … and found tom-toms, Keith dances with precise steps – Coming attempted to reach a pop audience by himself forgotten. After his appearance at the somewhat clunky at first, his harmonies covering the hits of the day. Recorded on May Newport Jazz Festival, Byas made the rounds broaden when Mangione coos behind him. 27, the disc included such curiosities as on the New York club circuit – no one was “Recuerdo” has one those perfect Mes- “Monday, Monday”, “Secret Agent Man” interested but Blakey, shocked that this pivot- senger Moments: Chuck goes Dizzy-like on and, most improbable of all, “Walking My al figure was unemployed. the mute, Mitchell answers with toughness … Cat Named Dog”! He took Byas on a lengthy tour of Japan; and Blakey tuning the toms behind both. The expanded lineup included two trom- Don didn’t replace Ramon Morris at tenor, he While he had something of Morgan’s touch, Mangione also shows a warm edge, at times absent from Lee’s work. In the midst of his “Blakey was fond of calling his band- emoting, Chuck sneaks in a quote of “Shadow of Your Smile”, absolutely perfect for the surroundings. By this moment alone, Man- mates ‘my youngsters’, but in late 1970, gione proved he belonged in the Messengers; Wynton Marsalis characterized him as “really he was proud to make an exception. low-key – it wasn’t a step forward, but it was- n’t a step backward.” After a long career in Europe, the bebop The tune also contains what critic Alan Goldsher calls the most bizarre Messengers solo: a dissonant Jarrett, plucking and scrap- legend Don Byas came back to the United ing piano strings in ways that were common in classical music (Henry Cowell did it in the States … and found himself forgotten. 1920’s) but at the time unknown in jazz. Ac- cording to Mangione, Blakey liked this: “Art After his appearance at the Newport Jazz would encourage him by yelling ‘Act like a fool!’ And Keith did, because Keith is Keith. He was as unique then as he is now. Similar Festival, Byas made the rounds on the discord appears on Chuck’s feature “My Ro- mance”, where odd triple-time sequences mix New York club circuit – no one was inter- with the sweetest mute you ever heard. If there was tension between Jarrett and Man- ested but Blakey … and took Byas on a gione – as apparently there was – it resulted in beautiful music. lengthy tour of Japan…” The later Jarrett is heard on “The Theme”, in a dense sustained cloud of intri- cately-connected notes. It is simple by his bones, Garnett Brown and Melba Liston, the joined him, for the first two-tenor lineup in later standards (in the ‘Seventies he’d do this guitar of Grant Green, and the organist Mal- Messengers history. On top of his horn-work, sort of thing for 45 minutes straight) but it colm Bass; while not officially a Jazz Messen- Byas acted as sort of a batting coach to the certainly shows the direction he was going. gers session, Corea was the only Messenger other players, offering advice and sharing his The horn riff behind him is little softer than absent. Despite the commercial trappings, experiences. This was partly the reason Art normal – they seem to be giving him defer- Hold On, I’m Coming sold poorly; the Mes- hired him: “[T]he young guys in the group ence. Mitchell gets a good turn on “Between sengers would make no studio album for the took advantage of his experience.” After the Races”; clearly inspired by Shorter, I also next five years. Corea and Mangione left the tour, Byas did one gig with the band in New hear some Rollins in the slower passages. The group at the end of October; they briefly York before quitting – shortly after this, Bla- bell-like comps provided by Jarrett are won- formed their own band, which played Roches- key signed up with the Giants of Jazz, an all- derful. ter until Chick joined Stan Getz. After an un- star tour that circled the world for eighteen On this session you can hear the roots of successful attempt to rehire Bobby Timmons, months. Keith’s greatness, but he was already growing Blakey was able to get McCoy Tyner, right tired of the Messengers. In the spring of 1966 after he left Coltrane’s group. The trumpets he was sitting in with Charles Lloyd on his off flew by in quick succession: Bill Hardman for   

36 June-July 2018  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Contact Steve: 630-865-6849 | email: [email protected]

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