Friday Volume 493 12 June 2009 No. 90

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Friday 12 June 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 1033 12 JUNE 2009 1034 House of Commons Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill Friday 12 June 2009 Consideration of Bill, not amended in the Public Bill Committee. Third Reading The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Queen’s and Prince of Wales’s consent signified.

PRAYERS 9.50 am The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means took the Chair as Deputy Speaker (Standing Order No. 3). Malcolm Wicks (Croydon, North) (Lab): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I beg to move, As I trooped through the No Lobby, I reflected that, That the House sit in private. given the fervour for the modernisation of Parliament, I Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). hope that the modernisers will look critically at the way in which we spend our Friday mornings. The shenanigans The House proceeded to a Division. that go on are not fit for purpose in a serious parliamentary democracy. Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No lobby. It is my pleasure to present the Bill for its Third Reading. I thank hon. Members for their useful The House having divided: Ayes 0, Noes 32. contributions on Second Reading on 24 April. I am Division No. 147] [9.33 am grateful for all their comments and questions, and encouraged by the unanimous cross-party support for AYES the measure. We had an equally useful, albeit short, Tellers for the Ayes: John Austin exchange in Committee, and I am impressed with the Mr. Andrew Dismore and commitment that hon. Members continue to show to the cause of mutuality and co-operation. NOES The Bill represents something of a rebranding of societies. It provides for all new societies registered Allen, Mr. Graham Lansley, Mr. Andrew Bellingham, Mr. Henry Lewis, Mr. Ivan under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1965 Bottomley, Peter Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew to be registered as co-operative or community benefit Brown, Lyn McCarthy-Fry, Sarah societies and it sets out the basis on which societies may Burt, Alistair Prentice, Bridget be registered. The criteria are essentially those in existing Chope, Mr. Christopher Rammell, Bill legislation and no major change is made to the qualifying Davies, Philip Ruddock, Joan criteria. Dunne, Mr. Philip Seabeck, Alison The introduction of the registration requirement will Fitzpatrick, Jim Skinner, Mr. Dennis also ensure that societies can be properly supervised by Goodman, Helen Smith, Angela E. (Basildon) the Financial Services Authority, thus improving corporate Heath, Mr. David Spellar, rh Mr. John governance over the sector. By modernising the name Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Heathcoat-Amory, rh from “industrial and provident society”—which, I admit, Mr. David Thornberry, Emily has a historical resonance and status—to terms which Hurd, Mr. Nick Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Jack, rh Mr. Michael Wicks, rh Malcolm are, in any case, in common usage, we can help the sector adopt a modern 21st century status and persona. Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Tellers for the Noes: Keen, Ann Helen Jones and Societies that are already registered do not have to Lammy, rh Mr. David Mark Tami register again. If my Bill becomes an Act, societies that register before it is implemented will not be affected by The Deputy Speaker declared that the Question was the definitions of “co-operative society” or “community not decided because fewer than 40 Members had participated benefit society” in the measure. in the Division (Standing Order No. 41). The Bill also deals with circumstances in which a society’s registration may be cancelled so that it reflects the new registration provisions. The FSA, as registrar, will be able to cancel a society’s registration when it does not meet the new statutory definitions. Again, the Bill caters for the status of societies registered, or treated as registered, under the current section 1 of the 1965 Act. The Bill changes the name of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1965 and that of other Acts concerning such societies so that “industrial and provident societies” is replaced by “co-operative societies” in the titles. That is part of the rebranding of industrial and provident societies.

Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West) (Con): On modernisation, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will consider, given that “industrial” has gone out of vogue, 1035 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1036 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill [Peter Bottomley] walked along Victoria street this morning, but I think I have got the name right this Friday. The Bill gives whether that also applies to “Labour”, and whether the powers to the First Secretary of State to investigate party should be branded “the Co-operative party” again. companies and their affairs, and to requisition documents. Will he remind the House that the registration of credit Under the law as it stands, the FSA has certain unions is unchanged, although some provisions affect powers to investigate industrial and provident societies. them? Will he reflect on whether it is right to provide for However, such powers are limited, particularly in respect “the Treasury”to have power to do things when, normally of those societies that are not regulated by the FSA as in Bills, power is given to “the Secretary of State”, providing financial or insurance services. In contrast, which allows for greater flexibility in Government in the Secretary of State has more extensive powers to later years? investigate companies. That partly tackles the issue that the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) Malcolm Wicks: I will deal shortly with one or two of raised about the Secretary of State’s powers. The Bill those issues, not least credit unions, which both the will enable the Treasury to give the FSA powers of hon. Gentleman and I regard as particularly important investigation of industrial and provident societies, equivalent in the current economic climate in some of our poorer to the powers that the Secretary of State has in respect communities. On his useful—as ever—advice about the of companies. name of the Labour party, as every schoolboy and schoolgirl knows, there is a separate Co-operative party, The Bill also includes important provisions for credit of which I and many other Members are members. unions. It enables provisions that correspond to building Indeed, some colleagues are returned as Labour and society law to be made for credit unions. The power will Co-operative Members. However, it is always useful to allow any provision in building society legislation, which have a tutorial from the hon. Gentleman about the is deemed appropriate, to be mirrored for credit unions. history of the Labour movement, although it is not the Credit union membership has expanded significantly in subject of the Bill. recent times; indeed, perhaps I should declare that I have recently joined the excellent Croydon credit union. The Bill applies the Company Directors Disqualification The best way of allowing credit union law to keep pace Act 1986 to officers of industrial and provident societies, with that expansion in membership and operations is to as it applies to officers of companies, building societies bring it into line with building society law, which is and friendly societies. The 1986 Act provides for the tailored to deal with issues specific to institutions that disqualification of officers of companies and various accept deposits. The power is widely drawn, so as to bodies when such officers have seriously mismanaged allow any provisions of building society legislation deemed those bodies. Disqualification means being prohibited appropriate to be mirrored for credit unions. from involvement in the management of a company or from acting as an insolvency practitioner for a period of There are restrictions, however, to ensure that specific time. Under the law as it currently stands, officers of provisions of existing credit union law cannot be modified. industrial and provident societies who have mismanaged Thus, provisions regarding registration, the use of the a society cannot be disqualified. Clause 3 will make name “credit union”, the general prohibition on deposit their disqualification possible. taking, amalgamations or transfers of engagements and conversion of status between credit union companies The Bill provides for greater investigation of societies. are safe. There is a requirement that the Treasury consult It gives the Treasury powers to apply to industrial and with the appropriate persons before using the power, provident societies specific provisions of company law which is a reflection of its potentially wide scope. Depending on investigating companies, company names, dissolution, on which provisions of building society law are converted and on restoration to the register, which the FSA keeps, into credit union law, the Treasury might need to of industrial and provident societies. “confer power to make orders, regulations and other subordinate The Bill also applies part 31 of the Companies Act legislation; create criminal offences; provide for the charging of 2006, which contains provisions to strike defunct companies fees (but not any charge in the nature of taxation).” off the register of companies, to societies. It therefore On Second Reading, hon. Members raised a number provides a significantly more streamlined procedure of important points, to which I promised to respond in than that which currently applies to societies, and one due course. I would therefore like to take a little time that will be less onerous on the FSA. The onus to prove today to put on record my reflections on those questions. that a society is defunct currently rests with the FSA as The hon. Member for Southport (Dr. Pugh) cited some registrar. The FSA can act only in limited circumstances, illuminating research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation frequently after having to devote considerable resources that pointed out some of the risks associated with to investigation of a society’s status. The new regime increasing state and local authority involvement. He will place the responsibility on a society to demonstrate wanted assurance that the Bill would not denature that it is still active. The Companies Act 2006 provisions credit unions. I think it fair to say that credit unions also contain related procedures governing voluntary would welcome the opportunity to attract savings from striking off, treatment of the property of a dissolved larger community organisations and local authorities. I company and restoration of companies to the register. welcome that as well, but also recognise the hon. Parts 14 and 15 of the Companies Act 1989 also Gentleman’s concern. The legislative reforms that this come into play. They cover a power by the Secretary of Bill, and, indeed, the Government’s legislative reform State—by that I now mean the Secretary of State for order, seek to introduce will ensure that the role that Business, Innovation and Skills; I think that is the people play as individual members, contributors and correct name for the Department, after a period of depositors will not be diminished. Individual membership being Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform and will continue to be the main focus of credit union a longer period of being Trade and Industry. I have not membership. 1037 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1038 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill When I spoke at the annual general meeting of the International Co-operative Alliance’s statement on Croydon credit union the other day, I was impressed by co-operative identity. I am not aware of any provisions the fact that 40 or 50 people had gathered there as in the Bill that will detract from those important central members of the credit union to spend an hour and a tenets. half discussing the affairs of the union and looking at The Bill has received all-party support, and I hope how it could improve itself. That seemed to be self-help—to that that will continue today. On one level, it is a legal, use an old-fashioned term—at its very best. Certainly, technocratic Bill. It is about modernising, and about nothing in the Bill will interfere with that. Indeed, I improving what we might call corporate governance. It think it will help to maintain and develop that honourable is also about introducing measures for co-ops and credit tradition and ethos. unions to bring them into line with best practice in the On the issue of informal financial education for corporate sector. We have mentioned the applicability credit union members, I know that the Government, of building society provisions for the credit unions in together with the FSA, have launched a scheme, under that regard. It might appear to be a rather dry Bill, but the brand name “Money made clear”, aimed at creating it comes at an important time when we are seeing a greater financial literacy in education. They have also revival of interest in the principles of mutuality and been working together with credit unions under the co-operation. That revival is partly driven by consumers’ auspices of the umbrella group, the Association of concern that goods should be appropriately sourced— British Credit Unions Ltd, to increase financial education without the use of child labour, for example—and by among members. their increasing interest in the quality of products, given On Second Reading, the hon. Member for Fareham rising concerns about health and obesity, for example. (Mr. Hoban) emphasised the importance of getting the The Bill is also being introduced against a backdrop of regulatory regime right for societies, citing the recent some corporate financial institutions, not least in the fate of the Presbyterian Mutual Society in Northern financial sector, having seriously let down the public. It Ireland as a case in point. Indeed, the problems at the is therefore unsurprising that we are seeing a greater PMS have emphasised the need for societies to make interest in the co-operatives. absolutely clear to their members the nature of their Following the historic great leap forward in earlier investment. That also highlights the need for vigilance times, building societies have experienced many years of by the registrar. I understand that the administrator for decline. Sadly, too many of the great societies were the PMS is due to present his report on this sad incident, de-mutualised and most of them are now totally lost to and it would therefore not be prudent for me to comment the benefit of their communities. After that period of further on the matter. However, I would like to say that demutualisation—which got a lot of excited support at we all sympathise with the plight of that society and its the time from certain segments of society—and a period members, and that we hope that the matter ends in a during which the Co-op shop was simply not competing satisfactory resolution for all those affected. with the likes of Sainsbury’s and Tesco, we are now The hon. Gentleman also inquired as to why the seeing a revival. I understand the problems that are enabling power granted under the Industrial and Provident affecting some of the building societies at the moment. Societies Act 2002, allowing the Treasury to amend The West Bromwich building society is a topical case in industrial and provident societies legislation using secondary point. Nevertheless, my guess is that a lot of us are legislation in line with any changes made to companies rather pleased that our savings and bank accounts are law, had not been utilised. I am informed by colleagues with the Co-operative bank or with one of the mutual at the Treasury that there is every intention to use that societies, rather than with one of the private sector power at the appropriate time. They explain that it can banks that have run into trouble. be exercised only to apply to industrial and provident Some interesting developments are now taking place societies a “modification” of company law—in other that support my optimism about the co-operative and words, a new provision. A large number of the provisions mutual sectors. First, the whole range of local and of company law covering the areas that the Bill intends regional co-operative societies have at long last amalgamated to make applicable to industrial and provident societies into one Co-op Group. Some societies are not yet are not modifications or new law, and these powers members, but 80 or 90 per cent. have amalgamated. cannot therefore be used in this instance. Secondly, the Co-op Group is now taking over the Based on my discussions with Treasury colleagues, I Somerfield retail outlets to make it a significant player can also confirm that the Government intend to consult in the retail sector. Thirdly, we have seen the Co-op later this year on the application and applicability of bank—perhaps I should declare an interest as I have the Electronic Communications Act 2000 to credit unions been a long-term member or account holder of that and industrial and provident societies. It is important bank ever since my student days—merge with the Britannia for the sector to be able to communicate electronically building society to form what some people are referring with its members and with statutory bodies, and I am to as a “super mutual”. If we also add on the number of assured that this matter will be dealt with using all the small organisations that are co-operatives—in fishing diligence and urgency that it requires. or some of the big agricultural sectors—we can identify My hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) a flourishing of this ethos of co-operation and mutuality. sought reassurance that the Rochdale principles would Should the Bill receive support and eventually Royal be applied when registering industrial and provident Assent, and in some small way succeed in improving societies. The Rochdale principles of voluntary and corporate governance and modernising such societies open membership, democratic member control, member and credit unions, that would mean progress towards economic participation, autonomy and independence, making the mutual and co-operative sector a significant education, training and information, as well as co-operation one in the British economy once again. For that reason among co-operatives, are already enshrined in the alone, the Bill will be most welcome. 1039 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1040 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill 10.11 am connection with Islington, so he will appreciate how much of the history of the labour and socialist movement Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I began there. The only historical information I could warmly congratulate the right hon. Member for Croydon, find on Islington that is comparable to Rochdale in this North (Malcolm Wicks) on his Bill and on the way he respect, however, was that Thomas Paine wrote the has conducted it through the House. We have seen a “Rights of Man” at the site of the current Co-operative perfect example of the right approach, with him answering bank at the Angel. [Interruption.] I have an excellent points that were quite properly raised by other hon. researcher, so please leave her a note. Members in earlier stages and shepherding his Bill to what I hope will be a successful conclusion today. I echo my right hon. Friend’s comments on the need to look again at the way in which we conduct our time I do not know whether it is a proper interest, but I and ourselves on Fridays; if we modernised, we might should declare that I am a long-standing member of the be able to use our time for the betterment of Parliament. Witham Friary friendly society, one of the oldest in the country. That entitles me to attend a quinquennial It is right to look at the history of the co-operative dinner and, should I ever be debilitated and unable to movement and to understand what has happened so far. work, to receive the princely sum of six old pence a Although the Bill has been seen as largely technical and week. I am sure that The Daily Telegraph will take a of small import in itself, it remains important if it puts considerable interest in that extra emolument available the final brick in the wall needed to ensure that the to me if I am ever disadvantaged by illness. co-operative movement is properly protected and able to fight on a level playing field with other financial I would like to point to a historical precedent in that institutions. At a time when we are going through such one of my most distinguished predecessors as the Liberal enormous convolutions and have been hit by dreadful MP for Frome was the author, Thomas Hughes, who threats to our financial system, the co-operative movement was a great advocate for the co-operative movement. He and the system of mutual finance is one that we really was the Liberal MP for Frome for only a short time, must look at carefully and protect. I share the aspirations subsequently becoming Liberal MP for Rochdale, where of other Members to ensure that the co-operative movement the connection with the movement is perhaps more once more assumes a very important role in the conduct obvious. Our part of the world can nevertheless be said of our business and financial institutions. I commend to have played its part in the development of the my right hon. Friend for the support to the movement co-operative and mutual movement. that his Bill will provide. I shall not detain the House with a long speech. The Although the history shows that we have moved a right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that the long way from the roots of the co-operative movement, appetite for mutuality and co-operative arrangements is many of its core values continue to inform us today. increasing. A few years ago I was worried, and said so at Despite the changes over the last two centuries, co-operatives the time, when we saw the demutualisation of our great remain the same in one crucial respect: they exist to building societies. Members of all parties at the time provide mutual self-help for their members rather than sounded the warning bells that that was an abandonment to generate profit for investors. They have been driven of the principles under which those organisations had by their core values of ethical behaviour, and the absence been built up, in an unholy scrabble after major capital of external shareholders throughout the sector means for members and the organisations themselves, that that there are no conflicts of interest between the claims could—and, in many cases, certainly did—end in tears. of consumers and owners, leaving co-operatives no Now, however, there is a real understanding that working incentive to exploit their customers for short-term gain. in a co-operative way for the common wealth is a beneficial way of organising a business. As the right When I met the staff and management of the Co-op hon. Gentleman said, we have certainly seen that in the shop on Caledonian road, I was struck by the pride they agricultural sector in the selling of produce, but also in have in their store. It is difficult to run a shop in the other sectors. Caledonian road area and a number of other shops have closed, but the Co-op is committed to ensuring I thus greatly welcome further development from the that a shop is maintained there. It offers a wide range of bottom up of these smaller organisations in the financial high-quality products—Fairtrade products, for example, sector, but they need to develop in some sort of that perhaps have a wider appeal on the Barnsbury side framework—otherwise, they will be open to threats of the Caledonian road—but also good-quality cheap from those who have alternative motives. The right hon. goods. The shop has had to increase its security and, in Gentleman’s Bill, small as it is—he is right that this is the teeth of opposition from the local Liberal Democrat not earth-shattering stuff; it is in some ways a technical council, place cameras outside in the street. It has Bill—will help to put the smaller mutual arrangements expanded the shop and shown great commitment— into a proper system of corporate governance and regulation. That seems to me a worthy aim, so I commend the Bill and I will encourage all my hon. Friends to Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. The support it. hon. Lady’s remarks must relate to the Third Reading of the Bill.

10.15 am Emily Thornberry: It is, I think, important for an Emily Thornberry (Islington, South and Finsbury) institution such as that one in my constituency to be (Lab): My right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, supported. North (Malcolm Wicks) would have been as surprised I look to you for guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I was when, on looking into the history of the but another event took place in my constituency shortly co-operative movement, I found very little connection after I was elected. One member of staff at the Co-operative with Islington. I know that he has a long-standing bank at the Angel was killed and another badly injured 1041 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1042 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill as a result of what happened on 7/7. The reaction of the by the first Co-operative party Member of Parliament staff and management there was remarkable. They worked to fill the post of Economic Secretary to the Treasury, with me on arranging a community meeting to celebrate as it represented the culmination of 10 years of work by the lives of those killed or injured. Islington continued the party to level the playing field for the co-operative to pull together—another example of co-operative values sector. that we should all be proud of. The following June, my hon. Friend the Member I am not a member of the Co-operative party, although for—another hon. Member—[Laughter]—announced frankly I wish that I were. I have made a number of the publication of a number of proposals for legislative attempts to become a member. When I stood for election reform orders to level the playing field further. The fact in Canterbury and Whitstable, I wanted to stand as a that so much legislation can be delivered in this manner member of the Labour and Co-operative party, but is a result of the success of the original Industrial and unfortunately— Provident Societies Act 2002. The legislative reform orders are due to come before Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. I am afraid that I Parliament on 6 April. They will modify the provisions really must bring the hon. Lady to order. I repeat what I specifying the minimum ages for membership of an IPS said earlier: her comments must relate to the content of and for becoming an officer of an IPS, modify the rules the Bill. on share capital, modify the provisions relating to the fee paid for a copy of the society’s rules, facilitate easier Emily Thornberry: The purpose of the Bill is to dissolution of registered societies, give societies the remove all legislative obstacles faced by the co-operative flexibility to choose their own year ends, and remove and credit union movements, and to level the playing the requirement for societies to have interim accounts field in relation to other organisations. It represents the audited. A recent legislative reform order announced a culmination of more than 10 years of work done by the series of measures for credit unions. There is also a Co-operative party in partnership with Government to second tranche of orders to be consulted on and laid level the playing field between co-operatives, credit unions before Parliament. and other corporate forms. This Bill represents the final piece of primary legislation The first piece of legislation for the purpose—the Bill in the jigsaw, and will tackle all outstanding issues that that became the Industrial and Provident Societies Act cannot be dealt with by secondary legislation. It proposes 2002—was tabled by the then chair of the Co-operative to change the term “industrial and provident society” to party, Gareth Thomas. It increased protection against “co-operative society” or “community benefit society”. the demutualisation of co-operatives, and enabled the That strikes me as an excellent change, which will make Government to use statutory instruments to bring industrial the purpose of such societies much clearer to people. It and provident society legislation into line with company is felt that the current title is a disadvantage when the and building society law. aim is to portray societies as a modern way of addressing The second Bill piloted by the Co-operative party contemporary issues. Although the change is mainly was Mark Todd’s, which became the Co-operatives and presentational, it may be crucial to the way in which Community Benefit Societies Act 2003. It built on societies are perceived, and could play a role in attracting Gareth Thomas’s earlier Act by providing an asset lock funds for investment. for community benefit societies including housing The Bill also applies the provisions of the Company associations, community child care facilities and football Directors Disqualification Act 1986 to the special supporters’ trusts. It prevents the demutualisation of circumstances of the mutual sector. There are currently community benefit societies, making them more secure no powers to disqualify the directors of an industrial and much more suited to the running of public services. and provident society under the Act, nor is there any It also addresses a number of contractual and corporate statutory prohibition on disqualified directors from governance issues for societies. being members of a committee or board of a society. Sir John Butterfill’s Building Societies (Funding) and That seems nonsensical to me, and I am very pleased Mutual Societies (Transfers) Act 2007— that we shall be able to bring it to an end. There appears to be no reason not to apply this Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. I am sorry to have to legislation, which would be helpful in terms of parity interrupt the hon. Lady again, but when she mentions and oversight. It would ensure that industrial and provident Members of the House she should refer to their societies were regarded as a no less reliable source of constituencies rather than their names. governance and oversight than other corporate forms, as well as protecting the public interest. Hon. Members: Bournemouth, West. The Bill gives the registrar powers to require the production of information and documents, to appoint Emily Thornberry: I am grateful for that assistance. I investigating accountants, and to wind up societies in believe that Sir John Butterfill is the hon. Member for the public interest. There are currently no powers to Bournemouth, West. His 2007 Act made it possible for require the production of information and documents, different categories of mutual to transfer to each other or to appoint investigating accountants in relation to without demutualising. The success of that Act was key industrial and provident societies. It is important for to the proposed merger between the Co-operative bank that to be changed, and for societies to be brought into and Britannia building society. the 21st century. Such powers exist in relation to both The long-awaited review of the industrial and provident building societies and companies. There are also currently societies legislation was launched by my right hon. no powers to wind up societies in the public interest, Friend the Member for Normanton (Ed Balls) on Thursday although such powers exist in relation to companies. 21 June 2007. It was fitting that the task was performed The introduction of the new powers would also be 1043 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1044 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill [Emily Thornberry] Peter Bottomley: I thought that the Postal Services Bill had been delayed, but we will do what we can to helpful in terms of parity of statutory oversight, and in help the Government. protecting the public interest. The right hon. Gentleman made a serious point in At present, only an Act of Parliament can update observing that the Bill has been sponsored by two credit union legislation in certain respects. The Bill Liberal Democrats and two Conservatives. That is what permits the use of statutory instruments when building prompted me to suggest that where there are non-party society law is changed in future to assimilate credit Bills, even though there may be controversy about parts union law with building society law. That may prove of them, the Government might consider saying, “Why crucial in ensuring that credit union law is kept up to don’t we have a big-tent approach to the sponsorship of date with the latest developments in related fields. There these Bills, just to show that, behind the principles, is a credit union in Islington, the Islington and City there can be all-party agreement?” credit union, which was established in 1997. I hope that we can change the law in order to support that credit The focus on co-operative provision of services union, which is going from strength to strength, so that should not be to the exclusion of the private sector. It is it can continue to assist my poorest and most vulnerable just as possible in the private sector as in the constituents. There are far too many loan sharks on the co-operative movement for a failing shop to be taken streets of Islington, and I wish the Islington and City over by someone who provides a proper service, and for credit union all the best. the shop to develop and grow and for its customers to I support the Bill, and I am very pleased that it has be grateful. Such a private shopkeeper might be a been presented. recent immigrant to this country, and I pay tribute to the many people who came here when the Asians were thrown out of Uganda. They showed that such 10.27 am businesses could be successfully established as family Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West) (Con): The House concerns, and that they could serve their customers will have enjoyed becoming familiar with the hon. Lady’s with just the same commitment as those in the speech just as much as I suspect she did—with the bits co-operative sector. that were in order, that is. I had not realised that we had The co-operative sector has an honourable tradition, to find something written in our constituencies before and it comes in many forms. A few days ago, there was a taking part in the debate. Oscar Wilde came to Worthing function in Parliament for employee-owned businesses. for three weeks, where he wrote “The Importance of The range of them is much greater than most people are Being Earnest”, which has no relevance whatever to this aware of. I do not think they are covered by this Bill, but debate. they are part of the tradition of co-operation or common I should declare an interest—or rather not an interest, ownership, and of alternative forms of ownership but a matter of fact. I have a Co-operative bank account more broadly. and I am a member of the West Sussex Credit Union, which I commend to others. It provides both safe savings As the Bill passes to another place, I would like the and sound borrowings, and I expect many commercial Government to think about whether the approach summed banks to adopt similar principles from now on. up in the expression, “The Treasury can do this, and that, and the other,” is always the most appropriate. I do Let me say to the right hon. Member for Croydon, not argue that it is wrong, but I think that the tradition North (Malcolm Wicks), who has kindly nursed the Bill in our legislation of giving power to the Secretary of through its stages so far, that he has done an excellent State is worth considering. I remember being told by my job. If he is thinking of any kind of modernisation, he father, who was at the time a junior civil servant, that he might suggest that this should be a Government rather had to get a letter to his Secretary of State, who was in than a private Member’s Bill, although I understand Australia. He arranged with the Royal Mail that it that the various parts of the co-operative movement would be taken to Hounslow—or whatever Heathrow have had an interest in developing its principles. was called at the time—where it would be put into the If we are going to have to modernise everything—and hands of a pilot, who would then fly to Sydney and find I note that every candidate for the Speaker’s Chair is the Secretary of State. Two hours later, however, No. 10 now a moderniser—it might be an idea, if a Bill is asked if it could have the letter back—a reshuffle had non-controversial, for the Government to consider inviting probably been cancelled, as usual—so my father got in members of other parties to put their names to Government touch with the Royal Mail to ask for the letter to be Bills to show that it is not a case of one side fighting returned. “Under whose authority?”, he was asked. He another or taking all the credit for something. Having said, “The Prime Minister’s”, but he was told that that offered that thought, which I hope is in order, I shall was not good enough as the relevant Act says the move on. Secretary of State has the power and that this Prime Minister was not a Secretary of State. He was told that Malcolm Wicks: I know that the hon. Gentleman was the only Prime Minister to have been a Secretary of not implying this, but he will know that my Bill is State was the Marquis of Salisbury, who was Foreign sponsored by members of the Conservative party and Secretary at the time. As a result, my father had to by the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable), the wander around Whitehall until he found Chuter Ede, Liberal Democrats’ Treasury spokesman, as well as by the Home Secretary, to whom he said, “Excuse me, my members of my party. I understand the other point that name is Bottomley from the Dominions Office, will you he made, and we would welcome Conservative support please sign this authority to get back a letter from your for one or two controversial Bills that are due to be colleague the Prime Minister to your colleague Viscount presented. Addison?” and the letter was then withdrawn from the 1045 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1046 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill mail. I therefore offer the thought that using the expression It is probably wrong to pick out any particular sector, “the Secretary of State” allows any Secretary of State to but I happened to meet housing association representatives sign a document if and when needed. yesterday and they were keen to remind me that they are The Bill is useful. Most of its provisions are necessary; not just about bricks and mortar; they are also about some are window dressing, but I do not think that that providing community services through employment, matters too much. The explanatory notes are valuable health and education projects. They are important partners and they make it plain that the Bill does not change the of regeneration. A recent audit of those services found registration requirements of credit unions themselves. I that they annually invest at least £435 million in that work. therefore hope that those in credit unions will see such Whether the bodies in the sector are building societies, references to credit unions in the Bill and will not feel housing associations or football supporters’ clubs, they that they have a problem with their current registration. need the right legislative framework, and one that is I hope that credit unions such as the West Sussex suited to the 21st century, and this Bill provides that. As Credit Union will grow not just in the provision of the right hon. Gentleman said, the Bill addresses four services for savers and borrowers, but also in order to key issues. First, it requires new industrial and provident raise financial literacy—I think that is the right expression. societies to register as co-operatives or community benefit I hope that young people will get to understand the societies. Secondly, it calls for the renaming of the range of provision of financial services, and also that Industrial and Provident Societies Acts; it has been the old rules about money are probably the right ones: it agreed that the term “industrial and provident society” is all right to borrow, if it is safe; and it is right to save, is arguably an outdated term, and hides the wide range but the real reason for saving is not just to get a return of bodies that can be constituted as mutuals. Secondly, on the money, but to have something put by for a rainy it applies the Company Directors Disqualification Act day, because, as we all know, summer does not last 1986 to industrial and provident societies. It is my for ever. understanding that there was no outstanding reason why officers of mutual societies should not be dismissed 10.34 pm for negligence, as they can be under company law. Mr. Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): It is, as Thirdly, it gives the Treasury powers to apply to community always, a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member benefit or co-operative societies the company law on for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley), who made a investigation of companies, company names and dissolution thought-provoking speech. and restoration to the register. Finally, it gives the Treasury powers to make provisions for credit unions Until now, I have had no dealings with the Bill, so I corresponding to any provisions applying to building should start by reassuring the right hon. Member for societies. The clear theme is one of recognising the Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks) that my presence at contribution mutuals have made to our economy by the Dispatch Box reflects the day of the week rather passing legislation that updates the framework within than any U-turn on behalf of the Conservative party, which they operate. because we welcome what is a useful Bill. On a personal note, I would like to extend heartfelt congratulations to The Bill has been widely consulted on, and the mutual the right hon. Gentleman for taking the Bill so far. I sector is broadly happy with the proposals. It is customary have had the pain or privilege of taking a private now to thrash out any issues left hanging after Committee Member’s Bill through Parliament: it eventually became stage, but this Committee stage lasted 14 minutes, at the Sustainable Communities Act 2007. Notwithstanding least two of which, I understand, were taken up by my his understandable frustrations at the process, I hope hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas this is a part of his political life that he will look back Winterton) praising the Bill’s sponsor for his integrity on with great pride, and perhaps reflect on the irony and experience. Given the career implications of that, it that so far it has proved easier to change the law of the must have been the longest two minutes of the right land as a Back Bencher than it proved to install renewable hon. Gentleman’s life, but I am glad to see that he has energy in his home in Croydon despite being Energy recovered from the experience, and has been here today Minister at the time. to guide us through proceedings at a steady pace. We welcome this useful Bill. My hon. Friend the At this point, however, we must sound a note of Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) spoke in support of caution. Cross-party consensus must not become an it on Second Reading. The hon. Member for Islington, excuse for lack of scrutiny. The Bill is important. It will South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) made an modernise the legal framework of co-operatives and entertaining speech—although I noted how difficult it protect the interests of their members and industrial was for her to get her mouth around the words, “my and provident societies through the provisions. It is not right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton”. She simply a tidying-up exercise. There are instances where reminded us that the Bill should be seen as the latest in a co-operatives should be considered as companies and series of private Member’s Bills sponsored by Members credit unions should become more like building societies, from both sides of the House that seek to update the but mutuals are not companies and credit unions are legislation on mutuals. not building societies and should not strive to be. We We value the work of mutuals. I do not know whether need to make sure that these legislative reforms are able the right hon. Member for Croydon, North keeps a to deliver the necessary modernisation while protecting copy of the “Mutual Yearbook 2008” by his bedside, the unique status of societies and credit unions. They but it is a good read, and it reminds us of the economic are not the solution to all our problems either. There importance of this sector. It employs close to 1 million have been many casualties in the mutual sector throughout people and has annual revenue of more than £84 billion. the financial crisis. It is not the case that all mutuals are It is therefore a sector that has significant economic well managed and it is in the interests of the members weight, as well as an important social impact in the country. and customers of mutuals that their directors are brought 1047 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1048 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill [Mr. Nick Hurd] this is a large sector that makes a very important contribution, and we need to support it in the way that within the remit of the Company Directors Disqualification this Bill will help us to do. Act 1986. As a result, although support for the ethos of From the Government’s point of view there are three mutuals is unanimous, so should be the recognition that major benefits of this Bill. First, by providing support they need effective regulation and the right legislative to the mutual sector the Bill will promote choice and framework in which to operate. The Bill is principally diversity in financial services. The hon. Member for an enabling one, and much will depend on the secondary Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) warned us against legislation and the legislative reform orders that will the danger of placing too much reliance on the mutual follow. The standard of scrutiny that we have seen thus sector and that is a fair point. Nobody in the House—I far must be maintained. The one thing that did emerge include my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, from the Committee was the news that the secondary North in this—would argue that we should be solely legislation is yet to be drafted, and even what that has reliant on the mutual sector, but there is an important happened, it will be subject to extensive consultation. It point to make about diversity. After the problems that is vital that those changes have the support of the we have seen in the financial sector over the past year or sector, and that can be achieved only by proper consultation. two, it is particularly clear that the alternative model In conclusion, Conservative Members welcome the offered by the mutual sector is one whose value we Bill, which should help mutuals to achieve their full should not underestimate. Choice and diversity in financial potential through a more modern legal framework. We services is an important gain from the agreement of welcome both the protection that it gives members of this Bill. mutuals from poor directors and the modernisation of The second benefit to which I wish to draw the credit union legislation. We wish this welcome Bill well. House’s attention is the Bill’s ability to encourage saving and confidence in it. There has been a big rise in the saving ratio over the past couple of years, for reasons 10.40 am with which all of us will be familiar, but it is important The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen that we encourage a culture of saving and that we Timms): I am delighted to provide the Government’s encourage people to be confident about saving. The response to this Bill. I thank my right hon. Friend the mutual sector is making a very important contribution, Member for Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks) for the not least in the availability of child trust fund savings leadership that he has shown in introducing this Bill products, individual savings accounts and other products and I pay tribute to his commitment to the cause of that it offers, which are attractive to an important mutuality. I echo what the hon. Member for Ruislip- cohort whom we wish to encourage to save. Credit Northwood (Mr. Hurd) said about the achievement unions are also clearly making a very important that this Bill represents. I know that this is not the first contribution to the culture of savings. That is a second time that my right hon. Friend has piloted a private benefit that we can anticipate from the agreement of Member’s Bill through the House—he did so with carers this Bill. legislation—so this is a field in which he is well experienced The third benefit, which was also touched on by the and this Bill reflects that. It makes an important hon. Member for Worthing, West, lies in the promotion contribution to improving the framework within which of financial inclusion and capability—ensuring that co-operative and community benefit societies and credit people have information and access to a range of products unions will be able to work in future. that suit their needs. As my hon. Friend the Member for The Government place a high value on the role that Islington, South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) rightly co-operatives and credit unions play in the UK economy. underlined, we should seek to provide an alternative to Along with other mutuals, such as building societies loan sharks and the very high cost sources of credit of and friendly societies, they have had an immense influence which we are seeing too much in our constituencies at on the development of our financial system as it stands the moment. It is pretty clear that difficulties in the today. The hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood is credit market more generally have pushed people towards right to underline to us the extent and scale of this those very high cost sources of borrowing over the past sector of the economy; mutuals provide a very wide couple of years. range of services to millions of people up and down the The financial crisis has highlighted, in a new way, the country. The building society sector has traditionally traditional strengths of the co-operative model—the had a very strong presence in savings and mortgage mutual model; it has stood up very well through this markets, but it is a particular characteristic of mutuals crisis. As we have been reminded in this debate, this such as credit unions and industrial and provident model has a very long tradition and is based on the societies that they reach into communities to help people values of support, the common good and community. I who might otherwise not have any access to mainstream was not present in the House for the Second Reading financial services. That is a particularly important strength debate, but I gather that my right hon. Friend the that the sector offers. Member for Croydon, North was able to point to a Mutuals have combined total assets in excess of lineage that stretched back to the Romans, so this £400 billion and about half the UK population has model has a very long history indeed. In Britain, it membership of at least one mutual, so there is absolutely arose, in particular, from initiatives on the part of no doubt that mutuals are a major part of the financial workers to provide their own social safety net at the landscape. This debate has touched on the history of time of the industrial revolution and from community-based demutualisation and people sometimes give the impression self-help in newly burgeoning towns and cities that that there is nothing left following the demutualisations allowed poor working families to secure at least some that have taken place, but that is certainly not the case; protection from the harsh insecurity and ravages that 1049 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1050 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill accompanied industrialisation and urbanisation. The Mr. Timms: It would depend on the circumstances, hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) but I would be happy to drop the hon. Gentleman a line was right to remind of us Rochdale. I did not know that setting out a response to that point in more detail. its Member of the House at the time had previously We are living through extraordinary economic times. been a representative of his constituency. The global economy is forecast to contract this year for This model has a very long tradition, whereby local the first time since the second world war. We have seen a community cohesion has provided a very good way of worldwide financial crisis more severe than for generations. managing credit risk. The bonds formed in communities Against that backdrop, the strengths of the mutual have proved to be a resilient and sound basis for the sector have been highlighted, and we have seen mutual development of what went on to become some very organisations playing an important part. We have also impressive and substantial financial institutions. Workers seen mutuals suffering alongside other institutions, as have saved together and borrowed from each other, several hon. Members have pointed out, but the availability inspired by the writings of Robert Owen and adopting of an alternative model during the difficulties that we the model that was put in place by the Rochdale pioneers have experienced in recent months has been valuable, with the principles that they formulated. My right hon. and the importance of that alternative model has been Friend has reminded the House of that. highlighted in a way that has not been the case in the Credit unions have a rather different heritage. They previous few years. originated in rural Germany among agricultural workers There was a time when lots of demutualisations were and then spread to much of Europe, including Britain, taking place, and it looked as though the value of the by the end of the 19th century. However, the modern mutual sector was not well understood. It is better credit unions in Britain have more recent roots, which understood now, for several reasons—and my right go back to the 1960s and are linked particularly with hon. Friend has drawn attention to some of them—but immigration from the West Indies, where the credit not least because of the backdrop of the very serious union movement was a good deal more firmly established difficulties that others in the financial services industry at that time than it was in the UK. have experienced. We have heard about some of the legislative In response to the crisis, the Government have taken underpinnings for credit unions, and the Credit Unions a range of steps to reinforce the financial system and Act 1975 set in law the requirement for a common prevent its collapse, which was on the cards in the bond, which characterises the movement today. Like autumn of last year. We have also provided direct my right hon. Friend and others who have spoken in the support for the economy, and we have seen data this debate, I am a member of my local credit union, NewCred, week showing that those steps have had the desired the excellent Newham credit union. Unfortunately, unlike effect. We have also cleaned up the banks, enabling my right hon. Friend and his local credit union, I was them to restructure and increase lending. In the Budget, not invited to address its annual general meeting, although we also introduced measures to prepare to make the I have spoken to meetings of NewCred in the past. It is most of the opportunities of the upturn. another of the patchwork of excellent organisations At every stage, we have been acting with other countries, that several hon. Members have mentioned, strengthening because the issues faced by the mutual sector and the the financial resilience of the communities that we financial services industry more generally are being represent. tackled around the world, given the global nature of the I wish to associate myself with what my right hon. crisis that we have been through. That is why we have Friend said about the Presbyterian Mutual Society and taken action to strengthen the whole financial system the expectation that the administrator will present a and to restore the flow of credit, which is critical to the report shortly on what happened. I add my sympathies success of the economy. We recognise that although to those that he expressed about the predicament of banks are the main source of credit in the economy, members of that society and the great anxiety that they they are not the only source. We need to build a financial have suffered in recent months. I hope that those difficulties system for the future and my right hon. Friend the will be satisfactorily resolved before too long. Chancellor will lay out the Government’s thinking on The hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) the future shape of financial regulation before the summer raised the issue of the Treasury’s role in this matter. It is recess. right that the Bill gives powers to the Treasury, because Against that backdrop, and given the problems that it has policy and legislative responsibility for the mutual we have seen with access to credit for families and sector, of which industrial and provident societies are a businesses, the importance of the mutual sector and the part. It is consistent with the powers that the Treasury significance of its potential contribution is clearer today has in respect of such societies in the existing IPS than ever. So the provisions in this Bill will stand credit legislation. The Financial Services Authority has the unions and other co-operative financial institutions in regulatory role, so in these circumstances—notwithstanding good stead to be part of the renewed financial services the hon. Gentleman’s illuminating anecdote about retrieving industry, meeting Britain’s needs as we grow out of this a letter from the Royal Mail—it is appropriate that the crisis. I know that hon. Members on both sides of the power is vested in the Treasury. House will want to see the importance of the mutual Peter Bottomley: If the Bill reaches the other place, sector reflected in Government proposals for financial perhaps it might be possible to unpack in public what services regulation in the future. the words “the Treasury” mean. Otherwise, perhaps the The problems that we have seen in the credit crunch Minister could write to me. I accept his point, but do have trickled down to households across the country— those words mean that an official can do it or is a pensioners worried about their savings, young couples Minister required to do it? That would be useful information struggling to find a mortgage, and people facing redundancy to have at some stage. or the repossession of their home. Issues of personal 1051 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 1052 Societies and Credit Unions Bill [Mr. Timms] Swine Flu Update finance have been pushed to centre stage, and the potential contribution of the mutual sector has also been highlighted. 11 pm We have been able to commit to additional funding to The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): boost the capacity of citizens advice bureaux in these With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I should difficulties to provide local face-to-face debt advice. In like to make a statement on the A(H1N1) virus, commonly several instances, that will involve pointing people to known as swine flu. the opportunities offered by their local credit union. We have also committed an extra sum of money to increase Yesterday evening, the World Health Organisation the provision of free telephone advice from the National raised its pandemic alert status to phase 6. The criteria Debtline service. for making this declaration are based on the geographic spread of the virus and not its severity. Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire) (Con): The There is now clear evidence of sustained community Minister is right to talk about the concerns that people transmission in countries outside north America, have about personal finance. To that extent, it would which means that we are facing the first pandemic for help them to understand how the Government’s spending more than 40 years. Across the world, nearly 30,000 plans bottom out over the next few years. The Minister cases have been confirmed in 74 different countries. As is an honest man: can he confirm that the Government of today, there have been 909 confirmed cases in the plan a 7 per cent. cut— UK. There have been 144 reported deaths in six countries, but none in the UK. Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman Yesterday’s announcement means that it is even more knows that we are on Third Reading, and any question important that the global community works together to must relate to the content of the Bill. limit the impact of swine flu. Over the last few years, the UK has supported the UN system, including the World Mr. Timms: I will, of course, respect your ruling, Health Organisation, in pandemic preparedness and Madam Deputy Speaker, although I am disappointed response capacity. We will continue to support the not to have the opportunity to answer the hon. Gentleman’s World Health Organisation and its partners in the crucial point. months that lie ahead. The Government want to see a vibrant and self-sustaining In response to this particular outbreak, we have also mutual sector, offering high quality services and greater now set aside a further £6 million in additional help for choice for its members. We recognise that one tangible the international response. The WHO declaration does way in which that can be achieved is to ensure that the not, of itself, trigger any material change in our domestic sector is managed under a modern legislative framework. preparations, which have been under way for several Increasing expectations from members and global weeks now and are at an advanced stage. competitive pressures make it important that we have The Department of Health is continuing to work such a framework that will facilitate the growth and with other Government Departments, health protection expansion of the mutual sector, as well as enable the officers and other health care professionals to slow the provision of a high quality service to its members. spread of the virus. That work includes our strategy of Those are some of the primary reasons why we welcome giving antiviral drugs for the treatment of those with and support the Bill. symptoms and prophylactically to those who have The main purposes of the Bill, as we have heard, are potentially been exposed to the virus, and, where to modernise and update the law on industrial and appropriate, closing affected schools. As our knowledge provident societies by changing their name; to help to about the virus has increased, we have been able to improve their corporate governance framework; and to refine our strategy to be in line with the best public give the Treasury the power to modify some aspects of health assessments. the law on co-operative and community benefit societies At discussions at the Civil Contingencies Committee in line with company law— this week, we were able to update our strategy to Proceedings interrupted (Standing Order No. 11(4)). respond to the latest advice. That includes the use of clinical diagnosis rather than laboratory testing alone where there is a high probability that cases are positive and the more targeted use of antiviral prophylaxis, which is where antivirals are provided on a preventive basis to contacts considered most at risk of contracting the virus. In practice, that will include mainly household or household-like contacts, or, in a school context, those at surrounding desks, for example. We have been monitoring our domestic response continually. The formal declaration of a pandemic should not affect people’s day-to-day business and it does not affect our assessment of how the virus is behaving in this country. It is important to stress that the majority of cases in the UK so far have not been severe, with those catching the virus making a full and fast recovery—though a small minority of cases have been more serious. 1053 Swine Flu Update12 JUNE 2009 Swine Flu Update 1054

As I said, the Health Protection Agency reported does not expect switching to pandemic flu vaccine 909 confirmed cases of swine flu in the UK. Twenty-eight production to have an impact on seasonal flu vaccine people are known to have been hospitalised and the production. majority have already made a full recovery. Nearly all The final important thing to stress is that people those people had previous underlying conditions. We should continue to follow our advice on good hand now have enough antivirals to treat half the UK population, hygiene, and the “catch it, bin it, kill it” messages. They with orders to increase that to 80 per cent. We also have should cover their noses and mouths with tissues when orders for 226 million facemasks, 34 million respirators they cough and sneeze, throw the tissue away, and wash and 15.2 million courses of antibiotics, which will be their hands. People who have flu-like symptoms should delivered within the coming months. not panic, but should stay at home and check their The free swine flu information line, along with the symptoms using the online symptom checker or the nationwide leaflet, TV and advertising campaign, has swine flu information line. If people are still concerned, kept the general public well informed about the steps they should call their GP or NHS Direct. they can take to protect themselves and limit spread. The WHO’s announcement is an important signal However, we recognised from the outset that we would that all countries should now ready themselves to deal be unlikely to prevent a widespread outbreak indefinitely. with increased flu cases. The UK has been preparing for In recent days, there have been significant increases in this for years. We are recognised by the WHO as one of the daily number of cases in certain parts of the UK, the best prepared countries in the world, so we are in a most notably Scotland, where Health Protection Scotland very strong position to respond to the global pandemic has concluded that sustained community transmission we now face. appears to be taking place. This is characterised by an I commend this statement to the House. increased number of sporadic cases—that is, cases with no identifiable link with other confirmed cases. Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): I Those increases come as no surprise and are in line am sure that the House will be grateful to the Secretary with what we know from similar outbreaks, but it of State for giving us an update in the light of the World remains the case that, at some point, we will need to Health Organisation’s announcement yesterday about move our focus away from limiting the spread of a the move to pandemic phase 6 status. localised virus towards mitigating the effects of a widespread virus. I want to be clear: that point has not yet been In addition to thanking the Secretary of State, may I reached. We continue to monitor the situation carefully, extend through him our thanks to all the staff in the and any decision to move to mitigation will be based on Department of Health, the Health Protection Agency the best public health, clinical and scientific advice. and the NHS across the country for the way they have responded to the spread of this virus? I reflect, as the There is always a careful balance to be struck between Secretary of State perhaps has, on the fact that preparation benefit and risk when offering any drugs to healthy turned out to be very important and useful. The spread people. The extra knowledge that we have gained during of the virus in this country, relative to the spread in the last six weeks of containment means that we can some other countries, has been limited. The containment now refine our approach. The Health Protection Agency strategy has clearly had a substantial beneficial effect, will be using all its expertise and clinical judgment to not least because in Scotland the schools are breaking look even more carefully at the circumstances behind up for the holidays and because we will shortly be local outbreaks before deciding who should be given seeing the school holidays in England. There was a risk antivirals. that if the virus had spread rapidly it could have had a big impact on the public examination system, but it did The single most effective way to limit the impact of not have as big an impact as it might have done. The any future epidemic is the successful development and containment strategy worked well, from that point of distribution of a vaccine. Significant progress has already view. We should convey our thanks to all the staff involved. been made, including the identification of virus prototypes, which are so important in the production of the vaccine. I entirely endorse what the Secretary of State had to say about the desirability of maintaining a containment The declaration of phase 6 is highly significant because strategy while we can do so, and agree that it is perfectly it means that manufacturers will now be expected to reasonable to do so with more limited use of antiviral meet the contractual obligations of advance purchase drugs, if we can do that. We do not want to medicate agreements for vaccine that countries, including ourselves, people if it is not necessary. Clearly in Scotland, and had already agreed in the event of phase 6 being declared. perhaps soon in England, we may need to move to a We are already speaking to manufacturers to agree what mitigation strategy rather than a containment strategy, this means for our own plans for full country coverage and in that context, and bearing in mind the risks of a of pandemic-specific vaccine, should it be required. We substantial recurrence of the virus in the autumn—in have advance purchase agreements that enable the UK our flu season—the need for preparation is even greater to purchase up to 132 million doses of pandemic-specific now that we are in a pandemic phase. We will increasingly vaccine—enough for two doses for 100 per cent. of the see additional cases coming into this country from population, should that be necessary.On current projections, overseas, as well as community transmission in this we expect the first deliveries of the pandemic vaccine to country. To that end, may I ask the Secretary of State a arrive in the autumn. number of further questions about the preparations Current indications are that seasonal flu vaccine that we undertake in this country? production is well advanced and is expected to be The Secretary of State will have observed that Professor completed in the next few weeks with the requested UK Neil Ferguson’s report the other day suggested the quantities being delivered at the usual time. The WHO desirability of surveillance in hospitals of young adults 1055 Swine Flu Update12 JUNE 2009 Swine Flu Update 1056

[Mr. Andrew Lansley] non-invasive ventilatory support? The document from the Department on surge capacity suggests that in the who present with respiratory illness, as the virus seems case of this virus, such a strategy might be desirable. not to attack the elderly particularly, and to attack Can he say further, or let us know later— young adults especially. Does he propose that the Department and the NHS encourage that surveillance? Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. May I The Secretary of State has talked about the current ask the shadow Secretary of State to begin to draw his strategy of restricting the use of antivirals to close comments to a close, because we are interrupting discussion contacts. He will know that our view is that we should, on private Members’ Bills, and there are quite a few in the mitigation phase, continue to pursue what is Members hoping to catch my eye? called a household prophylaxis strategy—that is, we think that close contacts of people who are confirmed Mr. Lansley: I have just a couple of questions to ask, or suspected of having the virus should be offered if I may, about critical capacity. Under what circumstances antivirals. In that context, he will know that the phase 6 might elective work in hospitals be stopped, and what alert from the WHO, under the contingency plan, should has happened to the concept of enhanced rest centres, trigger the national pandemic flu line, which is not the which were to have helped to offset the pressure in the same thing as the free swine flu information line. People acute sector? Finally, what more can we do to help should be able to ring the pandemic flu line to have their developing countries, in addition to providing £6 million diagnosis confirmed, to have a prescription for antiviral for that purpose? What would happen, for example, if drugs confirmed, to be given a unique number, and to the virus were to reach South Africa in its current flu be told where their collection point is. season? It is a developing country that has a serious On that flu line, in papers supplied only a few months problem with the risk of HIV immune-compromised ago to the House of Lords Science and Technology patients, but its medical system would have the capacity Committee, the Department of Health said: to deliver antivirals rapidly to patients if the country “Signing the contract in December”— had access to sufficient antivirals; many developing countries do not have that capacity. Can we contrive to that is, December 2008— assist southern Africa, for example, in responding to the “should mean that the National Flu Line Service system is outbreak? available for use in the event of a pandemic by April/May 2009.” The Secretary of State knows that that is not the case, Andy Burnham: I thank the shadow Health Secretary and that the national flu line is not available, even for the measured tone of his comments, and the help though it is due. Will he explain why? In addition, the that he has given us today to ensure that together we national flu line should link to the distribution of can give a reassuring message to the public, as we antivirals through collection points. The same document should. I strongly agree with him that we in the House said: should today send our thanks to staff in my Department— “In line with the NHS Operating Framework, the target date the Department of Health—and the Health Protection for identification of Antiviral Collection Points is the end of Agency, and to front-line NHS, public health and local December 2008.” government staff, who are working on the ground to So by now, primary care trusts across the country ensure that we are in a strong position to deal with the should know where those collection points are, but outbreak. clearly they do not. There appears to be continuing As the shadow Health Secretary knows, we have been uncertainty and confusion among community pharmacies preparing for years. I was pleased with his acknowledgment about whether they should, or should not, be the antiviral that the containment measures that we have worked to collection points. Will the Secretary of State confirm put in place have had an effect. That in itself has given that in many cases they should be? Community pharmacies us more time to improve our preparedness for the that currently seem uncertain about whether they should spread of the disease. He said that we should maintain be a collection point, and resistant to the thought, the containment strategy, and I should like to confirm should be. We are not talking about people with flu that that is our intention. Nothing is changed by the symptoms visiting their local pharmacies; clearly they WHO’s declaration; we continue to follow the plans should not do that. We are talking about flu friends that we have laid out. However, obviously it is important visiting local pharmacies. to keep that under review. There will come a point when Will the Secretary of State ensure that we have a we have to move from the containment to the mitigation further debate about the issue of school closures in the phase, as he acknowledged, but we are not there yet. We autumn? If the virus continues to be relatively modest keep the matter under review, and we would update the in its severity, there will be an argument that school House at such a point. closures may be an excessive response, but there is also The Civil Contingencies Committee will consider the an argument that if there is a very large number of matter next week, including what the trigger points cases, and if schools look like they are places where the might be for moving from the containment phase to a virus will spread rapidly, there would be a risk that if we mitigation phase, and what arrangements are needed to did not close schools for a short period where cases ensure successful distribution and treatment in that were confirmed, we would overwhelm local health service phase. Those are matters that we will consider next facilities. week with colleagues from Scotland, Wales and Northern On health care facilities, can the Secretary of State Ireland. Of course we will update the shadow Health say what measures have been taken to extend critical Secretary and the House when we have more information care capacity for the coming flu season? What has been to give. On the decision taken this week about flexibility, done to make available teams trained in the use of I should just say that it is important to allow flexibility 1057 Swine Flu Update12 JUNE 2009 Swine Flu Update 1058 to the experts on the ground where clusters have developed. framework which was sent out to the NHS last year. That was very much the message from Scotland. We The plans are in place and we will ensure that the agreed to that flexibility this week, and we think it is the capacity is in place where it is needed. I am grateful to sensible thing to have done in the circumstances. the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. The shadow Health Secretary asked me about the Lastly, of course we need to work through the WHO work of Professor Neil Ferguson and, in particular, the to ensure that we assist developing countries to manage surveillance of young people in hospitals. I want to the spread of the disease. I mentioned the £6 million reassure him that we recognise the importance of that. that we have allocated for this purpose. The hon. Gentleman As he will know, Professor Ferguson is on the Strategic was right to mention southern Africa and the obligations Advisory Group of Experts, or SAGE. Obviously, his that we have to help across the developing world. We advice is being fed in directly to us on matters such as take those incredibly seriously, and we will update the the one we are discussing. The hon. Gentleman also House as we have more information on precisely what asked about restricting the use of antivirals to close practical steps we will take to make that happen. contacts. I think he asked that question in the context of the mitigation phase of the spread of the disease. I want to assure him that that is precisely the kind of thing the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I, too, committee will consider next week. The balance has to thank the Secretary of State for making the statement be struck between a flexible response that is practical today. In the context of the World Health Organisation for health professionals, including public health decision to raise the alert status, it was important that professionals on the ground, and taking sensible and the House be made aware of the Government’s position. precautionary steps to prevent the spread of the disease. I raised the issue of a pandemic and our preparations But we think the important thing is to give public health for it in a debate five or six years ago, at which time we professionals the flexibility that they need on the ground were inadequately prepared. Enormous progress has to make those judgments. We will consider the matter in since been made, and I give credit to the Government more detail next week and I will update the hon. Gentleman for their response to the current situation. at that point. Given that the Government have, I think, been acting The shadow Health Secretary asked about the national appropriately, does the Secretary of State share my pandemic flu service. As I indicated in my statement, concern that there might still be a lack of public that will be up and running by the autumn. We have put understanding of some of the consequences? The media in place interim services to give the public the information have generally have been helpful, but there were elements that they need. We have well developed plans for such a of alarmist reporting in the early stages and, more service which, as I said, will be in place by the autumn, recently, perhaps of complacency. The most important and it will be able to deal with the demand, as necessary. thing that the Secretary of State has to do is to increase public understanding of what is an appropriate response. The hon. Gentleman suggested that there was some He mentioned the closure of schools. That is often an uncertainty and that PCTs did not know where collection important component of the response, particularly in points were. May I assure him that work is continuing terms of containment, because it removes a potent to refine plans to set up the collection points, should incubator population from the local community rather they be necessary? Ian Dalton, director of NHS Flu than any particular threat to the children at the school. Resilience, has worked in close partnership with PCTs on this. The hon. Gentleman also asked about the role Does the Secretary of State foresee any difficulties if of pharmacists. Again, that is an issue we will consider and when he feels it appropriate to move from the next week, and I will update him on that. strategy of containment to the strategy of mitigation? Questions will inevitably be asked—“Why are we no It is important for the public who are listening to this longer being given Tamiflu when, last week, that was debate not to get a sense that there is about to be a the response?” He needs to think through how he gets widespread plan for school closures. I am sure the that information across. He must be clear about the shadow Health Secretary would agree that it is business level of prophylaxis and the distribution of antivirals if as usual and that life must go on. Obviously there may we move to a mitigation stage. be circumstances in which the HPA considers it necessary to require or advise school closures because that may For instance, are we still going to concentrate on help with local containment of the disease. It is properly health care professionals in the wider sense—all those a decision taken at a local level on the advice of the who work in close proximity to patients? I speak as a HPA, but at all times it is the head teacher and the former optician. I realise that I would be likely to be in board of governors of any school who should listen to some danger of spreading the disease, were I working in that advice and take the necessary action. However, it is close proximity to the face of someone who was affected. important to keep the issue in proportion and avoid What is the Secretary of State’s epidemiological overreaction. assessment for the UK? Is he expecting a rapid increase The hon. Gentleman’s two final points were about over the coming weeks, or that when we reach the critical care capacity and other measures in the national period for seasonal flu outbreaks in the autumn, we are health service to deal with any expected pressure on likely to see a rapid escalation in the incidence of NHS services as we work our way through. I want to community infection in this country? In that context, assure him that I had a conversation with David Nicholson, are there any dangers inherent in the combination of the chief executive of the NHS, very soon after coming swine flu and seasonal flu? How will the professionals into office, in order to be assured that and understand know how to respond appropriately? Will they be aware how the NHS is ready to cope. It is important to say which immunisation they should give, for instance, and that the NHS has been preparing for this moment for a will they be aware of the circumstances in which they long time, and it was an important part of the operating should give a double immunisation, if appropriate? 1059 Swine Flu Update12 JUNE 2009 Swine Flu Update 1060

[Mr. David Heath] What the hon. Gentleman said about clinical diagnosis rather than lab testing was very much in tune with what Lastly, there was a reference in the statement to using I said earlier about flexibility for health staff. That is a clinical diagnosis to a greater extent, rather than laboratory sensible and practical step to take at this moment. At all testing. That is, of course, sensible but it raises questions times, we want to preserve an accurate picture of how about getting an accurate picture of the levels of infection. the disease is spreading in the country. We have plans in Is any differential diagnosis now available between swine place to ensure that. flu and seasonal flu? Several hon. Members rose— Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. I repeat what I said earlier. We are interrupting private Members’ business. Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. I ask hon. Members to ask just one single, concise question. If responses are brief, all Members present might be Andy Burnham: I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman successful in catching my eye. I am ever-mindful that we for his foresight in bringing the issue to the House all have interrupted private Members’ business. those years ago. I mean that genuinely. It was important that colleagues with a scientific background and understanding of these matters raised public awareness Malcolm Wicks (Croydon, North) (Lab): Across and the public debate, and I am grateful for his acceptance Whitehall and in many parts of the economy a great that the Department for Health, the Health Protection deal of planning has taken place because of fears of an Agency and others responded and significantly upped outbreak of avian flu. I thank the Secretary of State for their game. As a former Health Minister coming back, I his calm and well informed statement and I am grateful know that the subject occupied a great deal of my time to his Opposition counterparts for their approach. Will two years ago, so I can assure him that the importance the Secretary of State assure the House, as I expect he of the issue was internalised a long time ago. can, that what we learn from swine flu will be fed into the longer-term planning for a more serious outbreak The hon. Gentleman mentioned the media. Perhaps I of avian flu, which we still expect to happen one day? can do something that not many Members of the House have felt inclined to do for some time, and thank Andy Burnham: I thank my right hon. Friend for his colleagues in the media for the balanced, fair and accurate important question. The information that we are gathering way in which they have put over to the public information now is important not only for the immediate challenge about the outbreak. That has characterised the vast that we face but, more generally, in preparing the country majority of the media coverage so far. All of us, in all for any challenges in the future. That is why we have to parts of the House, want that to continue through the strike a balance between practicality on the ground and rest of the year. It is important that we give a clear accuracy. That takes me to the point raised by the hon. message to the public that things carry as normal. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath). There The hon. Gentleman asked about the move from is some discussion about the hospitalisation rate for the containment to mitigation and the issues that might condition. The figure given by the World Health arise about public messaging. I understand his point. Organisation is 7.5 per cent., but it could be higher Along the trajectory of this outbreak, there will be because of under-reporting in other parts of the world. points where careful thought will have to be given to It is important that at all times we try to get as accurate public messaging. Of course, there is a balance to be a picture as possible, not only to help in the here and struck between the practicality on the ground for health now but to leave information that will be useful to staff carrying out the strategy, and the successful future generations in dealing with any similar or worse containment of the disease. The clear consensus of the conditions. committee this week was that we should give that flexibility to the Health Protection Agency. David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): I congratulate The hon. Gentleman says that people might draw a the Secretary of State on his promotion to the top of distinction based on whether they can get an antiviral in the greasy pole at the Department of Health. I warn one part of the country but not another. It is important him, however, that if his party changes leader in October, to point out that there are dangers in over-prescribing his tenure might turn out to have been short. and in giving medication to healthy people. That also Sadly, the Secretary of State has said nothing today has to be a consideration as we try to get the balance about travel, although most of the country are thinking right. about going away, including many people in Hinckley, The hon. Gentleman asked me to speculate on the Burbage and Market Bosworth in my Leicestershire projection of the disease, but it is important that I do constituency. What advice is he giving? So far, we have not get into what can only be speculation at this stage. had only two cases in Leicestershire, but there is real Obviously, there are scenarios for the development of concern. Finally, is he trying to reach young people the condition, which could take different paths, one of through YouTube and Facebook? which he mentioned. There are also other potential scenarios. I assure him that the relevant scientific advice Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. I said that hon. is being given to the committee. We need to plan for all Members should ask only a single question. scenarios, and that is what we will continue to do. The strategy has been described as “hope for the best, plan Andy Burnham: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s for the worst”. We will continue to plan for the worst at congratulations and I look forward to discussing all times and make sure that robust plans are in place. I complementary therapies with him at great length in the assure the hon. Gentleman on that point. coming weeks. 1061 Swine Flu Update12 JUNE 2009 Swine Flu Update 1062

The advice on travel has been clear throughout: there antiviral drugs. Why is that service not already up and are no border closures and no restrictions on travel. The running, as was intended? What has gone wrong with World Health Organisation reiterated that yesterday; I the BT contract? Will the Secretary of State give a clear did not reiterate it again because I did not want to imply explanation? What does he mean by “the autumn”? that there might be a problem. There is not a problem; there are no restrictions on travel at all. Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Once again, I repeat that I have asked for a single question from Members. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I understand that the Health Protection Agency, whose headquarters Andy Burnham: We have put in hand plans for a are based in my constituency, is encouraging the testing national service that can deal effectively with the mitigation of people who have flu-like systems but have not travelled phase of the condition, as and when it is reached. A to one of the high-risk countries. Will my right hon. detailed business case for the service has been prepared. Friend confirm that all primary care trusts in London That, of course, has to be tested to ensure that it are able to run the required algorithm and that GPs delivers proper value for money and that the system have sufficient swab-taking supplies in their practices? being developed does the job that we want it to do. That Barnet, my PCT, has that facility. Its area has had seven work is now well in hand, and as I said in my statement, cases; the first case in Barnet occurred in my constituency. the service will be up and running by the autumn. It is important that all PCTs should be able to run that algorithm. Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): It has been suggested that widespread prophylactic use Andy Burnham: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance of antivirals could lead to the development of resistance and I will write to him with further details on that to those antivirals in the virus itself. Is that factor being point. taken into consideration in planning the use of antivirals?

Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West) (Con): Will the Andy Burnham: The hon. Gentleman makes a good Secretary of State consider preparing for the issue of a point. That is a consideration. The decision taken this written statement on Monday? It could answer some of week on restricting the use of antivirals prophylactically the detailed questions to which I am not sure the House is mainly because of the practicalities of doing it for has heard the answers this morning. What is the telephone health staff. However, he makes the important point number, either now or then, that someone should ring if that overuse of medicines among the healthy population they believe that someone in their household might is never sensible. have one of these respiratory conditions? Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire) (Con): I thank Andy Burnham: I would grateful if the hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for his courtesy in coming to the said what he has not heard that he wants to hear. I House so promptly after yesterday’s statement by the answered the shadow Health Secretary’s questions. If WHO—perhaps that will spread like a contagion among the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) his colleagues, so that they too make rapid statements. want answers to specific questions, I would be grateful Are any special measures being taken for those who if he submitted them to me today in writing. I shall have a lot of contact with people coming in from make sure that he gets an immediate response. The overseas, such as those who work at Luton airport, or swine flu information line is 08001513513. those in my constituency at Yarl’s Wood, who deal so promptly with a lot of asylum seekers coming into and Emily Thornberry (Islington, South and Finsbury) out of detention? (Lab): I welcome my right hon. Friend to his new post. As he is new to it, he might not know that one of the Andy Burnham: I do not believe that any particular early outbreaks of swine flu took place in Finsbury in measures are being taken for immigration staff at the my constituency, when a young Australian man came moment; I will seek to get the hon. Gentleman a fuller back from Mexico. However, the outbreak has been explanation of why that is the case. contained because of that man’s responsible behaviour and the prompt action of the local medical staff. Will Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): The my right hon. Friend join me in thanking them for their Secretary of State has now admitted that he cannot prompt and appropriate behaviour? prevent a widespread outbreak of swine flu. Why is it not better to have that widespread outbreak in the Andy Burnham: The most admirable thing about our summer rather than putting it off until the winter? national health service is how, at moments such as this, committed people up and down the country move into Andy Burnham: My family love me, but there is a action and work hard to protect the public. That is a limit to what I can do, four days into the job. I am doing great thing. The shadow Health Secretary was right to my best, as is everybody else, to ensure that the country raise that point; we would all wish to thank those is prepared. It makes sense to contain the condition as people. We will be calling on them in the coming months, much as possible to give us time to put the necessary but as always they will be there for us and up to the systems in place on the ground to take the country task. through this particular moment. [Interruption.] Iam still slightly taken aback by the hon. Gentleman’s question. Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): If there is a large increase in the number of people infected by swine Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The Secretary of State flu, as we seem now to be anticipating, the national flu only touched on the impact of school closures and said pandemic service will be the only means of distributing that that will be a local decision. However, many people 1063 Swine Flu Update 12 JUNE 2009 1064

[Philip Davies] Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill will be worried about the possible effect of school closures on parents and the knock-on effects on businesses. Proceedings resumed. What assessment have the Government made of that possibility, and what discussions has he had about it 11.43 am with other Government Departments? Mr. Timms: As we have heard, the proposals in the Bill are a direct result of Treasury consultation on the Andy Burnham: Obviously, we are working closely review of co-operative and credit union legislation in with other Government Departments to get our advice Great Britain, which was carried out in December 2007. right on this point. School closures continue to be The responses identified areas in the legislation for discussed by the civil contingencies committee, and we co-operatives and credit unions that would benefit from will update the hon. Gentleman and the House as an update. We have held extensive discussions in the necessary. Although more serious in a minority of cases, Treasury with the sector and key stakeholders, and we it is important to reiterate that in the vast majority of are taking forward the majority of the reforms using a cases this has been a mild condition, and people have legislative reform order, which I hope will be laid before made a very speedy and full recovery. It will be important the House before too long. The Bill complements the not to raise heightened concern about widespread school work that the Government are doing and deals with closures. Where they are necessary to prevent the spread issues that have not been included in the LRO but have of the disease within a particular area, let us leave that been widely sought by the sector. The sector and its to the professionals and the experts. If they wish to give supporters certainly wholeheartedly support the Bill advice to school governors and head teachers, that is promoted by my right hon. Friend the Member for the how these things should properly be done. It is not Croydon, North (Malcolm Wicks). necessary at this stage to have a national policy on school closures, or whatever the hon. Gentleman seems The Bill provides for a change of name for relevant to be pointing towards. Let us deal with this calmly as institutions, and specifically that societies registered we go along, but at all times taking the steps advised by under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1965 the experts. should be registered as co-operative societies or community benefit societies. Respondents to the consultation made Mr. Jenkin: On a point of order, Madam Deputy a powerful case that the industrial and provident society Speaker. May I point out that Front Benchers took 31 name sounds somewhat outmoded and constrains the minutes to make their opening statements and ask development of the sector. The Government agree that questions, so you inevitably had to curtail the few Back a name change would help modernise the sector and Benchers who are present in our questions? I understand attract a new range of members, so we fully support it. that, but will you and Mr. Speaker look into whether However, my right hon. Friend is right that a simple Front-Bench contributions should be formally time limited? renaming is not enough, and we also have to change the IPS name throughout the relevant legislation. Madam Deputy Speaker: I can inform the hon. Applying the Company Directors Disqualification Gentleman that they are time limited, for that very Act 1986 to officers of industrial and provident reason, and that is why I intervened. That is even more societies as it applies to companies, building societies important today, because it is a day for Back Benchers and friendly societies will be useful, too. Clause 3 is to bring their Bills before the House. necessary, as it will go a long way towards improving corporate governance standards by providing for industrial and provident societies to be subject to closer scrutiny by their registrar, the Financial Services Authority. The Bill gives the FSA new powers of investigation to enhance its scrutiny role. The benefits of that increased scrutiny are twofold. First, enhanced corporate governance standards will give societies added credibility, which is particularly important in the current circumstances of the worldwide economic and financial sector crisis. Secondly, it will provide extra assurance and protection to societies’ members and to the statutory authorities. It is equally important to ensure that powers are available to regulate the corporate body, as well as the individuals who control it. I therefore welcome the aspects of my right hon. Friend’s Bill that will help to create a level playing field by enabling the striking off and dissolution of defunct societies by the registrar and the application of company law on the investigation of companies. Importantly, it will also make it possible to apply to societies company law on company names, including directing a society to change its name if it is similar to other names or if the society has provided misleading information to register a particular name. At the moment there is no clear sanction for businesses 1065 Co-operative and Community Benefit 12 JUNE 2009 Co-operative and Community Benefit 1066 Societies and Credit Unions Bill Societies and Credit Unions Bill operating under the guise of a co-operative, or with the I thank the Co-operative party for its support, through word “co-operative” included in their full corporate research and intelligence, for my presentation. My hon. name. Helpfully, the Bill will remedy that anomaly. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) said that she had not been able to Peter Bottomley: Again, the Minister may or may not join the Co-operative party. There is the old joke about know the answer to this question off the cuff, and I do the Labour party being full up, although I am bound to not mind getting a letter later. Will that power apply say that I do not think that that is the case at the retrospectively if a company already has the word “co- moment. However, I have a feeling that a membership operative” in its title and it is challenged as being form will be winging its way to my hon. Friend so that misleading? she can remedy that one defect in her political personality. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, Mr. Timms: I believe that the answer about retrospection South and Finsbury on her speech. She represents an in the way that the hon. Gentleman defines it is yes, but important and historic part of London, which my father, I will ensure that that point is covered in the response Arthur Wicks, represented for more than 30 years on that I promised him earlier. the London county council and the Greater London On clause 5, credit unions share a number of similarities council. I therefore watch her carefully and she is doing well. with building societies, albeit that they are on a smaller scale. Credit union membership has expanded significantly, I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. and we need to ensure that the protections offered to Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath), for his members keep pace with the expansion of the sector. encouraging words. We usually discuss water mills and The Government consider that the best way of reconciling their potential for microgeneration, and it was good to regulatory oversight with credit unions’ expanding talk about other matters on this occasion. The hon. membership and operations would be to bring it into Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) spoke line with building society law, which is tailored to deal encouragingly about the Bill, for which I thank him. I with issues specific to institutions that accept deposits. also thank the Conservative spokesman, the hon. Member For example, we should allow credit union members a for Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Hurd), for his remarks. statutory right to vote by proxy and require institutions I am a great believer in the private Member’s Bill to provide a summary financial statement to members tradition. I had the opportunity in 1995 to introduce and depositors. In fact, the Bill will allow any provisions the Carers (Recognition and Services) Act. I know that of building society legislation that are deemed appropriate Madam Deputy Speaker has an interest in that, and she to be mirrored for credit unions. I should give the and I worked together on it. I managed to introduce reassurance that the Government would consult fully that Act under a Conservative Government, thanks not on any application of building society law to credit least to Virginia Bottomley, who was then Secretary of unions before bringing it into effect. State for Health and who encouraged me. The Bill extends to Great Britain only, and excludes Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of I thought that if I could introduce a Back-Bench Bill Man. It would not be right to interfere with the separate under a Conservative Government, surely one day I regime governing similar institutions in Northern Ireland, could convince my Government to support a private although there is a limited power in the Bill to make Member’s Bill that I promoted. I cheated slightly by consequential amendments to Northern Ireland statute adopting a Government measure, because I knew it if appropriate. might be more difficult under Labour than under the Conservatives to get a Bill on the statute book. However, The contributions to this morning’s debate have reflected I am pleased that we have consensus on the measure; we the affection and esteem in which Members throughout will have to wait and see what the upper House makes the House hold the mutual sector, and I am pleased to of it. reaffirm the Government’s wholehearted support for my right hon. Friend’s Bill. The private Member’s Bill tradition is important. As I implied at the beginning of the debate, it is so important 11.49 am that I think we can approach the task mid-week in a slightly more adult and serious way than sometimes Malcolm Wicks: We have had a good, essential and occurs on a Friday morning, when people make hay therefore encouraging debate on the Bill, although it with often significant measures. involved an outbreak of flu. However, I understand the need for the interruption. I ask the House to support Third Reading of this I thank Treasury Ministers and officials for their important Bill. great help in planning the Bill and my presentation of Question put and agreed to. it. I especially thank my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary for his speech today and his support for the Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. measure. 1067 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1068 Bill Crown Employment (Nationality) Bill aliens, or employed in accordance with a certificate issued by a Minister with the consent of the Minister Second Reading for the civil service. In that connection, either there must be no suitably qualified UK nationals available to The Comptroller of Her Majesty’s Household (Mr. John do the work, or the alien must possess exceptional Spellar): I have it in command from Her Majesty the qualifications or experience to do the job. Certificates Queen to acquaint the House that Her Majesty, having last for five years and must then be renewed. been informed of the purport of the Bill, has consented to place her prerogative and interest, so far as they are In 2006-07, only 66 people were employed under the affected by the Bill, at the disposal of Parliament for the certificates, 37 of whom were in the Ministry of Defence. purposes of the Bill. That compares with 67 in 2005-06, and 57 in 2003-04. A few weeks ago, I tabled some parliamentary questions requesting up-to-date statistics, but those questions have 11.54 am not yet been answered. Perhaps when the Minister Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I beg to move, responds to the debate she will be able to give us those That the Bill be now read a Second time. figures if she has them. If not, perhaps she will tell me when I might get those answers. This is not my second time but my seventh attempt to introduce the Bill. Twice—once a couple of years ago The European Communities (Employment in the Civil and once last year—I got as far as Report, so I hope to Service) Order 1991 amended the 1955 Act so as to make a little more progress this time. The Bill was allow nationals of member states of the European originally a Government handout measure, but it seems Community, and their spouses and certain children, to to have become my own work. I am persistent about it take up civil employment under the Crown, apart from because the genuine problems that it seeks to address “public service”posts within the meaning of the European remain. Community treaty. The rights of nationals of member The purpose of the Bill is to remove the restrictions states of the European Community were extended to placed on the employment of non-UK nationals in civil nationals of member states of the European economic capacities under the Crown. In place of the current area by section 2(1) of the European Economic Area system, the Bill would open up all civil employment Act 1993. under the Crown to applicants of any nationality, apart Against the background of a possible legal challenge from such positions as would be rightly restricted to to the European Court of Justice, further changes were UK nationals—about 5 per cent. under rules made by made in 1996, to put Irish and Commonwealth citizens the Minister responsible for the Department concerned. on the same footing as all other non-UK EC nationals. Before looking at the detail, let me make it clear that In that year, an amendment to the civil service management the Bill does not deal with asylum, immigration or work code was made to restrict Commonwealth and Irish permits, and does not affect the requirements for non-UK nationals from being employed in posts reserved for nationals to get leave to remain and permission to work UK nationals. in the UK. This is the Bill’s seventh edition and, as it The most recent change was the European Communities has gone on, various changes have been incorporated to (Employment in the Civil Service) Order 2007. That in reflect concerns that have been raised at its previous large part gave effect to the St. Andrews agreement of Committee and Report stages. It must now therefore be October 2006. The Northern Ireland civil service was nearing a degree of perfection. disproportionately affected by the prohibition of Irish The rules restricting the employment of foreign nationals nationals applying for reserved posts; in the Province, by the Crown go back more than 200 years. The Act of they accounted for 25 per cent. of the civil service. In Settlement of 1700 provides that annexe B to the agreement, there was a commitment to “no person born out of the Kingdoms of England, Scotland, or “bring forward separate legislation before the end of 2006 to Ireland, or the dominions thereunto belonging…shall be capable…to reform entry requirements to ensure access for EU nationals to enjoy any office or place of trust, either civil or military”. posts in the Civil Service.” That prohibition has been amended over the years, and The 2007 order amended the Aliens’Employment Act 1995, does not apply to Commonwealth citizens, citizens of to define more clearly and restrictively the categories of Ireland or British protected persons employed in a civil posts that could be reserved, reducing them to such capacity. Section 6 of the Aliens Restriction (Amendment) areas as security and intelligence, defence, the diplomatic Act 1919 provides that service, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, border “no alien shall be appointed to any office or place in the Civil control and immigration, and that sort of thing. The Service of the State.” result of the order was to open up about a further “Alien” is now defined in section 51(4) of the British 70,000 posts to Commonwealth, Irish and EEA Nationality Act 1981 as a person who is neither a nationals—in addition to UK nationals, of course—through Commonwealth citizen nor a British protected person, the reduction in the number of reserved posts, reducing nor a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. the total number of reserved posts to about 5 per cent., During the second world war, defence regulations or about 27,000 jobs altogether. permitted the temporary employment of aliens, if no However, the same basic rules still apply. The order suitable British subjects were available. That was replaced has no effect on Commonwealth, Irish or EEA nationals by the Aliens’ Employment Act 1955, under which the relating to public service reserved posts or on aliens for prohibitions were relaxed so that aliens could be employed any post in the absence of a certificate under the 1955 if they were either appointed in a country outside the Act, or on the alien spouse of a UK national—but not UK, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man in a of an EEA national—who also remains ineligible for capacity appearing to the Minister to be appropriate for appointment to the civil service. The effect of the rules 1069 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1070 Bill Bill is that foreign nationals may be employed abroad in any and dictatorship many years ago. They and their children, civil post under the Crown, including in the diplomatic who may know no other country, are entirely banned service if the Minister considers it appropriate. from Government posts. They have a lot to offer and As regards civil employment under the Crown within experience of working in our civil service would also the UK, however, Commonwealth citizens, British protected stand them and their home countries in good stead if persons and nationals of member states of the European they ultimately wanted to return. economic area may be employed in posts that are not In Hendon, we also have large Israeli, Chinese and “public service” reserved, but nationals of all other Japanese communities and UK citizens married to people countries may be employed in UK non-reserved posts of those nationalities. Assuming that they retained their only if one of the very rarely issued exemption certificates own citizenship, these Israeli, Chinese and Japanese is in force. Thus, 95 per cent. of civil service posts in the people, even though married to UK nationals, would be UK are available to Commonwealth, Irish or EEA barred from jobs in the new Business Department, for nationals and the remaining 5 per cent., requiring special example, where their language skills and knowledge of allegiance for public service posts, are entirely reserved their home countries would be invaluable in promoting for UK nationals, while other nationals are pretty well UK exports. However, if they were living in the UK and entirely excluded, even if there is no good operational married a French or German rather than a British reason for doing so. Only posts that are operationally person, they would not be so barred and would be necessary are now reserved within the definition based allowed to take up such positions under the freedom of on the EC treaty. movement provisions. It is bizarre that the spouse of a Attempts to define public service posts must follow UK national is barred from working for the UK civil EC case law and are subject to the judgments of the service, whereas the spouse of a French or German European Court of Justice. As a matter of UK law, national is not. however, EU nationals may now be admitted to civil The notorious extreme fundamentalist, Abu Hamza, service posts, but they cannot be admitted to ones that has UK nationality—at least until the Home Secretary’s the European Court regards as employment “in the efforts to remove his nationality come to fruition—and public service”. Although the European Court interprets could, in theory, be employed in any civil service post, employment in the public service narrowly, it has although I doubt he would want to apply or stand much nevertheless taken the view in the past that officials chance of passing the interview as he is now in prison. concerned, for example, in the collection of taxes are However, the American widow of a British 11 September employed “in the public service”. victim will be entirely excluded from Government The result was that, as a matter of UK law, a national employment. How bizarre an effect of the present rules of an EU member state cannot generally be employed is that? in Revenue and Customs—because such a post constituted As is so often the case, the police service is ahead of employment “in the public service” within the meaning the game. I first raised this nationality anomaly in the of article 39(4) of the EC treaty, so the exception from context of the police regulations years ago, and I am the 1919 Act did not apply—and a criminal offence is pleased to say that it was dealt with by the Police committed if he is so employed. Revenue and Customs Reform Act 2002. Subject to proper immigration status, employment is now generally permitted, because of the competence in English and certain reservations relating effect of the new order. to sensitive posts, nationality is no longer a barrier to I hope that Members are following the argument so joining the police. far. What we have seen is basically a plethora of interacting In our country, some 780,000 residents of working and interchanging laws, regulations, rules, treaties and age are not United Kingdom, Commonwealth or EEA so forth, making it incredibly complicated to work out nationals, and are thus excluded entirely. In London, a exactly what is what. My Bill will simplify all that lot, diverse world city, 330,000 people—7 per cent. of the sweep away the complex spider’s web that people have working-age population—are entirely excluded not just to negotiate and produce some simple and straightforward from the higher echelons of the civil service, but even rules. from applying for the most junior social security clerk’s To summarise, the net effect of the complicated web job in the Department for Work and Pensions. It is no of law is that it is a criminal offence, even if done by wonder that we sometimes have difficulty in filling civil mistake, to employ a non-Irish EEA national in a service jobs in the capital when such a high proportion “public service” reserved post or any alien in any civil of my fellow Londoners are entirely out of the equation. service post at all, apart from a tiny number of certificated My Bill tackles these bizarre and discriminatory exemptions. Although it is legal under the freedom of anomalies by sweeping away the complex interlocking movement provisions to employ in a non-reserved post legislation and replacing it with a simple amendment to the alien spouse of an EEA national living in the UK, it the Act of Settlement so as not to prohibit the employment rather bizarrely remains a criminal offence to employ of any person in any civil capacity under the Crown, the alien spouse of a UK national without an exemption while at the same time empowering the Minister to certificate. It is all very legalistic and technical, so let me make rules in respect of nationality requirements for further illustrate the anomalies by example. certain categories of posts that it is clearly necessary, As I have said, the Bill does not change the rules on and in the national interest, to reserve for UK nationals. asylum and immigration in any way. In my constituency as in many others, there are long-standing communities— Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): As from Iran and Iraq, for example, and more recently the hon. Gentleman knows, I have heard most of these from Afghanistan—often comprising highly skilled arguments several times before, and indeed have advanced professionals. Some were senior public servants in their similar arguments myself. I wonder whether he has yet home countries, but became refuges, fleeing persecution found an answer to another conundrum which I threw 1071 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1072 Bill Bill [Mr. David Heath] Second Reading of the Crown Employment (Nationality) Bill on behalf of the hon. Member for Hendon at him back in 2007. What happens when a Commonwealth (Mr. Dismore). I find it unbelievable that we are still citizen who, as he says, is entitled to be employed by the discussing, in this groundhog day way, exactly the same Crown, is so employed and his country then secedes or Bill year after year, when it is perfectly obvious that its is suspended from membership of the Commonwealth? provisions are sensible. It makes a very minor change to Must that person then resign his post? the enactments that affect the civil service, and there is no adequate reason why the Government cannot accept Mr. Dismore: I think my answer would be no, because it. They might wish to do so with amendment, but the the person’s country had been a member of the principle behind it must, I am sure, be agreed on both Commonwealth at the time of his employment. It could sides of the House. be argued that the contract of employment would be I and some other Members from both sides of the frustrated, but I think that the matter would be approached House have argued for a long time that we should have sensibly, on the basis of the rules as they applied when a civil service Bill. We have been repeatedly promised the person was employed. If the person was fit to work such a Bill, but it has never transpired. We have been and suitable for appointment at the time when he was told that its principal features will be subsumed within employed, the existing position would continue. The the Constitutional Renewal Bill, but we have not seen person in question would still be the same person even if that yet, of course, and some of us have our doubts as his country had been suspended from the Commonwealth, to whether it will actually encompass the provisions of like Zimbabwe. a draft civil service Bill, which we have discussed on When I embarked on this marathon, it was thought previous occasions, which the Public Administration that about 10 per cent. of the total number of posts Committee has been involved in, and which so many should be reserved. It is now estimated that only about Members have advocated. 5 per cent. of civil service posts—27,000—need be Even in the absence of a more comprehensive piece reserved. It is expected that the Bill would open up the of legislation, it does not seem to me to be beyond remaining 95 per cent. of posts to selection on merit reason for the following absurd anomaly to be addressed. regardless of nationality, enabling us to build a civil If a citizen of Mozambique—I always seem to use that service reflecting the diversity of the society that it serves. country as my example in these cases, perhaps because Over the years, support for my proposals has grown. it is the most recent member of the Commonwealth, In their evidence to the Public Administration Committee, but also perhaps because it has no historic links with the civil service trade unions said: the United Kingdom—can have employment, why cannot “For the record we should state that the present Civil Service someone from Montana? Where is the logic in that Nationality Rules are blatantly discriminatory against people anomaly in terms of the proper running of the civil from the Irish Republic and the Commonwealth. This is not a service and the interests of the country? Of course some situation which reflects well on the Government or the Civil posts must be restricted, and the hon. Gentleman’s Bill Service and completely flies in the face of efforts to develop a makes provision for that, but if it is right and proper diverse Civil Service which represents the whole community it that any citizen of a Commonwealth country or of the serves and one which endeavours to provide equality of opportunity European Union, or any spouse of a citizen of the EU, to all its staff.” can be employed in the civil service, why not extend that Several years ago, the Public Administration Committee to others who do not come from those countries, but said: who are well qualified and who could, I am sure, “This would be a much-needed reform and one that has long provide the same level of loyalty to the Crown, if not by been called for”, nationality then by contract? That is the crucial point. and that it was I welcome the Minister to her new post. I hope she “to be welcomed and such provisions should be included in will set aside the attitude of her predecessors for seven primary legislation to be introduced when Parliamentary time allows.” years, or however long it has been—I am unsure on how many occasions this Bill has been brought forward—and I therefore hope that the Bill will now be able to make welcome the Bill. Moreover, I hope she will welcome it progress. Obviously it would also raise issues in the with a determination to take it forward. If at the end of context of clause 184(5) of the Equality Bill, which the day it is better for its provisions to be subsumed refers to schedule 22. within the Constitutional Renewal Bill, and if we have Some years ago, when the Opposition tabled a civil that Bill and it makes progress in this parliamentary service Bill based on a Select Committee draft, they Session, so be it, but, for heaven’s sake, let us get on with appeared to agree with my proposals, and I understand this. Let us get rid of these anomalies and make our that they continue to endorse them as a sensible reform. legislation make sense—and please can we not have to Surely the time has now come for progress. Surely we sit through another Friday morning with exactly the can get rid of a raft of ancient legislation dating back same speeches being made on both sides of the House 200 years and replace it with legislation that is modern supporting exactly the same measure, because it really is and fit for the 21st century, so that the civil service can not a sensible use of our time? recruit the people who are best suited for the job and so that we can ensure that our rules deal with applicants in a genuinely non-discriminatory way. 12.14 pm Mr. Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): On this 12.9 pm groundhog day, may I, too, start by congratulating the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): There new Minister on her appointment? I am sure our future are certain rites and annual events of this House that exchanges will be more focused on the role of government mark the passing of the seasons, and one of them is the in unlocking the potential of the third sector to help 1073 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1074 Bill Bill more people, but today we are rightly focused on what is 12.18 pm a stubborn Bill, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), not least for his tenacity. I have The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. always been grateful to him because he showed relative Smith): First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member benevolence to my private Member’s Bill, which became for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) on his continuing commitment the Sustainable Communities Act 2007, although I suspect to this Bill; I believe he said that this is his seventh that that generosity had something to do with the fact attempt with this particular piece of legislation. I also that his own Bill was next on the Order Paper. I have understand that the former Member for Wimbledon, always been grateful that he kept his assassin’s dagger in Mr. Casale, also introduced this Bill, so it has a long its sheath that day and I wish him well with this Bill. I and dignified history. congratulate him on the speech that he delivered, but As I understand it, the Bill has sought in the past, there is no surprise in that because he has delivered it and continues to seek, to do two things. First, it seeks to enough times. I suspect that he could recite it in his remove nationality restrictions applying to employment sleep, and the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome or the holding of office in a civil capacity under the (Mr. Heath) could probably do the same. We believe Crown. Secondly, it seeks to empower a Minister of the that the Bill deserves to receive a Second Reading. Crown to make rules in respect of the nationality Like the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome, who requirements of certain categories of posts. In effect speaks for the Liberals, Conservative Members regret then, the Bill would open up Crown employment, including that today we are looking at just one small corner of the in the civil service, in non-reserved posts to all individuals painting and not at the wider canvas of the role and of any nationality who can live legally in the UK and status of the civil service. We have consistently stated have entitlement to work here. There would be no our view that this reform should be placed in the larger bypassing of the UK’s immigration system. context of a civil service Act that defines the role of the I wish to go into a bit more depth about the Bill, but civil servant in law. That has been promised since 1997 may I say at the outset that I think it contains considerable and is yet to be delivered. At a time when public merit, although some issues will require further discussion? confidence in the way in which we are governed is at So, although I am unable to give full support to the Bill such a low ebb, the case for such an Act grows even today, I want it to progress to Committee, because that stronger. We now look to the Constitutional Renewal seems to be the appropriate place to discuss those issues Bill to deliver it and we urge the Government to get on and examine any concerns that may be raised. In the with it. I recognise the argument that private Members’ fine traditions of this House, that is the right and Bills should be focused on relatively modest and concise proper way to address such concerns. I cannot give it objectives, and we accept that the principle of this Bill my full support, but it is appropriate that it should go to is right. Committee for further discussion. The law on who is eligible to work in the civil service is rooted in a different age and it is complex, it has been I shall set aside the effect of the Bill for the moment amended on many occasions and, unsurprisingly, it is a and consider the current nationality rules and framework, mess. It throws up plenty of anomalies, and those were and who can currently be employed under its remit. described well by the hon. Member for Hendon. They Holders of an office in a civil capacity under the Crown must be irritating to work with and the provisions are include civil servants in Departments, including the no longer rooted in any logic. Foreign nationals can be devolved Administrations, the judiciary, the security employed by the Crown abroad, if that is considered and intelligence services, the royal household and civilian appropriate, but in the UK non-reserved jobs are limited Army personnel. Within those two groups are two types to Commonwealth citizens, British protected persons of post—the reserved and the non-reserved. As we have and nationals of European Union member states. In heard from my hon. Friend, reserved posts are those 2009, it makes no sense that someone from Nigeria can that are seen, due to their sensitive nature, as requiring apply for a job in the civil service here, but someone special allegiance to the Crown and therefore reserved from the United States cannot do so. In the past, the for UK nationals only. law might have been justified by concerns about securing Some posts are reserved as a matter of course—for allegiance to the Crown, but that justification evaporated example, all posts in the intelligence and security services with the relaxing of eligibility for members of the EU. are reserved, as are those in the diplomatic service and In any case, the oath of loyalty to the Crown is now a the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, unless in the question of contract, above all, and the Bill does nothing latter case the Minister decides otherwise. Certain other to change the right of Ministers to reserve sensitive categories of post are also capable of being reserved for posts for UK nationals. UK nationals, but only if the Minister responsible for There appears to be an opportunity cost to this the Department or agency considers that to be necessary. muddle, because at a time when we want to be attracting Examples of such posts include posts in the defence the brightest and best to the civil service and we want intelligence staff in the Ministry of Defence or those our public servants genuinely to reflect modern Britain posts whose functions are concerned with access to and its growing ethnic complexity, not least in London—I, intelligence information received directly or indirectly too, am a Greater London MP, so I entirely endorse from the security intelligence services; access to other what the hon. Gentleman is saying in this context—it information that, if disclosed without authority or otherwise makes no sense to leave a group of people totalling misused, might damage the interests of national security; 800,000, on his numbers, outside the tent. All those or access to other information which, if disclosed without people have a legitimate right to be here to make a authority or otherwise misused, might be prejudicial to contribution in appropriate roles. We think they should the interests of the UK or the safety of its citizens. be given that chance and we are therefore happy for the Other such posts include those concerned with border Bill to be receive a Second Reading. control or decisions about immigration. 1075 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1076 Bill Bill [Angela E. Smith] Angela E. Smith: Yes, that is the case. If the legislation changed and that country was no longer a member of If a post does not fall into one of the above categories, the Commonwealth—if it had been formally excluded it cannot be reserved. This supports the deliberate intention by amendment of the Act—its nationals would not then to keep the posts as open as possible and to reserve as be eligible for employment. few as possible. My hon. Friend asked about some The EEA comprises not only the member states of parliamentary questions that he had tabled. I can tell the EU, but, as hon. Members will be aware, the nations him that some 5 per cent. of posts in the civil service are of the European Free Trade Association. That means currently reserved and the rest are available to all other that the Crown can draw on the talents of some 30-plus qualifying nationals. Some 27,000 posts are reserved. nations from that group alone. Also included is Switzerland, As I am relatively new to this position, I have not seen whose nationals have the same rights as EEA nationals. the other questions that he mentioned, but I will ensure that he receives answers as soon as possible. He also That pool of talent is widened further to include asked how many alien certificates had been issued in Turkish nationals and certain family members of EEA, 2008-09. The final figures are being collated, so they are Swiss and Turkish nationals. Turkish nationals are eligible not yet available, but they will be made available to him for Crown employment if they have been lawfully employed as soon as that happens. For 2007-08, the figures peaked in the UK for four years in any job or for three years in at 80 through the year, although the final figure was 60. the same occupation as the post that they wish to take Those figures have not been finally confirmed, but up under the Crown. The family members of EEA when they have, they will be provided to my hon. nationals gain their rights in such circumstances as the Friend. I hope that that is helpful to him. EEA national has exercised their rights under the treaty establishing the European Community—in particular, So which nationalities, under the rules, are eligible for the right to freedom of movement. As a result, those employment in those remaining 95 per cent. of posts family members of EEA nationals, irrespective of their and who is precluded? The answer is that the rules do nationality, are eligible to take up employment in the not specifically preclude any nationality from being member state where that national is employed. considered for employment—individuals who apply for posts will be eligible in their own right or, potentially, That means that certain family members of EEA employable through one of the available exceptions. As nationals employed in the UK would also be eligible to of right under the rules, the following countries or be employed in the UK and therefore to be employed in associations of countries are eligible for employment: non-reserved posts in the civil service, even if they did the UK; the Republic of Ireland; the Commonwealth; not as individuals satisfy the civil service nationality the European economic area; and Switzerland and Turkey. rules. That was the point that my hon. Friend the Also, certain—not all—family members of EEA, Swiss Member for Hendon was making. and Turkish nationals are also eligible regardless of The family members concerned are the spouse or civil their nationality. UK nationals include citizens born in partner of the EEA national, and the direct descendants the UK; British citizens born abroad; British Overseas of the EEA national or their spouse or civil partner, citizens; British Overseas Territories citizens; British such as their children and grandchildren. Direct descendants Nationals (Overseas) British subjects; and those only qualify if they are under the age of 21 or are recognised as British citizens through naturalisation or dependants. Dependent direct relatives in the ascending registration. line of the EEA national or their spouse or civil partner, such as their parents and grandparents, are also included. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) asked about Commonwealth citizens. A Commonwealth Certain family members of Swiss nationals resident citizen is any person who has the status of a Commonwealth in the UK, who are not Swiss and would not otherwise citizen under the British Nationality Act 1981, and the satisfy the rules, have rights to reside and to take up territories forming part of the Commonwealth are listed employment in the member state where that national is as part of that Act. That includes more than 70 countries employed. That means that family members of Swiss and territories. His particular question was about what nationals employed in the UK would also be eligible to would happen if a country ceased to be a member. The be employed in the UK and therefore to be employed in response given by my hon. Friend the Member for non-reserved posts in the civil service. My hon. Friend Hendon pretty much headed in the right direction. The did say that this could get to be rather a technical rules do not affect the rights of those who might be in argument, and I think that we are proving that point. employment whose countries are then suspended from The family members concerned in this case are the the Councils of the Commonwealth. When a nation is spouse of the Swiss national, the direct descendants of suspended, its nationals remain in employment if they the Swiss national—such as their children and are already employed or remain eligible for employment. grandchildren, as I have said—who are under the age of That would only change if the nation concerned was 21 or are dependants and their dependent relatives in formally excluded by the amendment of the Act. the ascending line, such as grandparents and parents. In There would have to be a formal exclusion under the the case of a Swiss national who is a student, rights legislation; a suspension would not affect eligibility for extend only to the spouse and any dependent children employment. of the Swiss national. Those family members can work in the UK and are eligible for employment in non-reserved Mr. Heath: Do I then understand that were a country posts in the civil service. to be excluded from the Commonwealth—or to exclude Certain family members of Turkish nationals who itself by secession—the terms would apply? That was qualify for employment in the civil service are also the corollary of what she said, which was that it would eligible for employment in the civil service. Family not apply under suspension. members of Turkish nationals are eligible for employment 1077 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1078 Bill Bill in non-reserved civil service posts if they have been the 1955 Act shortly. Following that Act, the European lawfully resident in the United Kingdom for three years Communities (Employment in the Civil Service) Order or more. 1991—Statutory Instrument 1991/1221—and the European The family members concerned are Turkish nationals’ Economic Area Act 1993 had the effect of opening up spouses and direct descendants of either the Turkish Crown employment to nationals of the European economic national or the spouse. Those descendants are children— area, with the exception of “public service” posts, or, as including stepchildren—grandchildren, and great- we know them in the UK, reserved posts within the grandchildren who are under the age of 21 or who are meaning of article 39(4) of the European Community dependants. Also included are direct dependent relatives treaty. in the ascending line of a Turkish national or their That was followed by the European Communities spouse—that is, their parents, grandparents and great- (Employment in the Civil Service) Order 2007, which grandparents. came into force on 7 March 2007. It amended the 1955 In order for the family member to be eligible for Act and the 1991 order to specify in more detail the employment in the civil service, they must have lived in definition of reserved posts and to clarify eligibility to the UK with the qualifying Turkish national. There are take up non-reserved posts in the civil service. The 2007 also special rules that entitle children of qualifying order sets out categories of posts that are either Turkish nationals to take up jobs in the civil service if automatically reserved to UK nationals or can be reserved they have completed a course of vocational training in to UK nationals if the relevant Minister considers it the UK. There is no length-of-residence requirement necessary. attached to that right. The Turkish national or the other The Bill would remove the nationality restrictions by parent of the child must have been legally employed in providing that section 3 of the Act of Settlement does the United Kingdom for at least three years. After that not prohibit fairly brief overview, I am sure the House will agree that “any person from being employed or holding office in a civil the framework already allows for recruitment from a capacity under the Crown”, wide range of nations. I think it would also agree that there is some complexity in the rules. and by repealing section 6 of the Aliens Restriction (Amendment) Act 1919, the whole of the 1955 Act, and It is worth considering where the framework came the 1991 order. from, and how we got to this point. The statutory prohibition on the employment of aliens in a civil I think we understand the point made by my hon. capacity under the Crown—including, but not only, in Friend when he says that in many cases the complexity the civil service—stems from the Act of Settlement of of the legislation can make it difficult to ensure that the 1700. That Act provides that right rules have been applied. Is there merit in the changes he proposes? That is a matter for the House to “no Person born out of the Kingdoms of England Scotland or Ireland or the Dominions thereunto belonging” decide and the Committee to consider. may I mentioned a moment ago that the spouse of an EEA national can be deemed eligible for Crown “enjoy any Office or Place of Trust either Civill or Military”. employment irrespective of their own nationality. The That provision was repealed in 1919—it took a few family members of EEA nationals gain their rights in years—and replaced by the Aliens Restriction (Amendment) circumstances where the EEA national has exercised Act 1919, which provides that their rights under the treaty of the European “no alien shall be appointed to any office or place in the Civil Community—in particular, the right to freedom of Service of the State.” movement. My hon. Friend raised this specific point. My hon. Friend rightly feels some frustration at having The interrelationship of EC and UK law has created proposed the measures in his Bill seven times in seven what is commonly referred to in the civil service as the years; he would feel greater frustration if he had been alien spouse anomaly, whereby a Chinese national married trying to change things from 1700 to 1919. to a French national who was working in UK could be An alien—I grant that that is not the most attractive deemed eligible for civil service employment by extension of words to use to describe a non-UK national—is of their spouse having exercised their freedom of movement defined in the British Nationality Act 1981 as rights. But if the same Chinese national were married to “a person who is neither a” a UK national working in the UK, they would not be deemed eligible, thereby giving more rights to EEA British nor a nationals and their families than to UK nationals. “Commonwealth citizen nor a British protected person nor a citizen of the Republic of Ireland.” It is worth noting—this is where I have some disagreement with my hon. Friend’s analysis, though he is essentially The position with regard to the employment of aliens right in practice—that the consequence of the freedom changed during the second world war. At the time, of movement rights does not represent a complete bar defence regulations permitted the temporary employment on the spouses of UK nationals. UK nationals themselves of aliens if no suitable British subjects were available. may have gained their rights by exercising freedom of That situation was altered under the Aliens’ Employment movement or are open to that, as any other EEA Act 1955, which provided that national is. If they have triggered those rights, their “an alien may be employed in any civil capacity under the spouse may well be eligible for Crown employment, Crown”, irrespective of their nationality. However, it is accepted either in posts outside the UK—an example would be that in reality an EEA national living and working in locally engaged staff—or, exceptionally, in other the UK is more likely to be able to show that they have circumstances under cover of an alien’s certificate, signed engaged their freedom of movement rights than a UK by the responsible Minister. I shall say a bit more about national living in the UK. 1079 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1080 Bill Bill [Angela E. Smith] of entrants to the civil service is at its lowest level since the Bill was first introduced, whereas the number of The Bill seeks to remove the anomaly. Beyond this, leavers is proportionally at its highest. one could argue that the Bill represents a sensible In 2001, 39,000 people joined the civil service, against tidying up of somewhat aged and complex legislation, 31,000 people leaving, so 11 per cent. more joined than removing an administrative layer from recruitment and left. In 2002, 47,370 joined, against nearly 28,000 leaving, putting the Crown and civil service on an equal footing so 42 per cent. more joined than left. In 2003, well over with the rest of the UK. That is the considerable merit 60,000 joined yet nearly 45,000 left, so 26 per cent. more of the Bill. However, there are difficulties that need to joined the civil service than left. In 2004, 54,500 people be teased out in Committee, and that is why I cannot joined the civil service, while not that many fewer— give the Bill my full support at present. 46,000—left, so 15 per cent. more joined than left. In One of the questions that we should consider is 2005—another year in which my hon. Friend introduced whether there is at the moment a problem with the his Bill—40,000 joined, against nearly 51,000 leaving, recruitment or retention of talent and which the Bill which gives a difference of 20 per cent. In 2006, 37,000 addresses, and whether it is helpful in that regard. The joined, with 42,000 leaving. In 2007, nearly 25,000 Crown, including the civil service, evolves like all other joined, against 36,000 leaving, which gives a 31 per cent. employers. It needs to be able to reflect a diverse society difference. In 2008, 23,000 joined the civil service and 41,000 to understand and meet its needs. To do that, it must be left, which gives a difference of more than 43 per cent. able to draw on a range of talent and variety of individuals. Of the vacancies available in the civil service, all The civil service would accept that the widest pool departmental vacancies are initially advertised for a possible was to its benefit in getting the talent and the minimum of two weeks to staff at risk of redundancy, skills that it requires. The legislative framework as it because we obviously want to maximise redeployment stands allows recruitment from a wide range of nations and minimise any possibility of compulsory redundancy. so that the Crown and civil service are able to recruit the I am sure the House would accept that, particularly at talent that they need, without affecting policies on this time, those are the actions of a good employer. national security and/or immigration. They are, of course, also supported by the national The changes in the economic and working climate trade union side, and form part of an agreement made within which we should consider the Bill are brought in April 2008. into focus if we consider that during the Bill’s presentation Coupled with that, the civil service, like any other big in 2007 my hon. Friend: employer, has a policy of redeployment, within departments “I have the honour to represent a constituency in London, and across departmental boundaries, and promotions. which is a diverse city, but 330,000 people in London, or 7 per That enables the service to utilise people’s key skills, cent. of its working-age population, are entirely excluded, not just which Departments will have invested in, and retain key from the higher echelons of the civil service, but from even talent. That said, the civil service cannot be protectionist applying for the most junior social security clerk’s job. It is no or keep all its posts for its own people. It recognises that wonder that we have difficulty filling civil service jobs in the external recruitment is essential at all levels to provide capital when so many of my fellow Londoners are entirely out of the equation.”—[Official Report, 29 June 2007; Vol. 460, c. 579.] opportunities to jobseekers and bring in new talents, experiences and ideas. To that end, a large number of He made a similar point today. jobs at all levels are advertised in the external market The use of aliens certificates means that individuals each year, both in the press and in a number of other are not barred per se from employment, even at the ways, but mainly through local jobcentres and on the most junior levels. They can be employed at any level, in civil service website. any city or town, when there is a need. That they are not The key is to have balance. External recruitment and suggests that there currently is not the need. What is internal moves allow new ideas to be brought in and job more, and critical in illustrating the changing climate, is opportunities to be created, while ensuring a level of the fact that since my hon. Friend made his statement in stability in organisations and—I emphasise this point— 2007 about job opportunities in London, the efficiency reducing the need to resort to compulsory redundancies. and relocation programme undertaken by the civil service The civil service, as the largest employer under the dictated that some 20,000 jobs were to be relocated out heading of the Crown, has to strike that fine balance of London and the south-east by 2010. between finding efficiency savings and supporting the In the recent Budget, the number of jobs to be UK and its workers through the current economic relocated out of London and the south-east by 2010 downturn, and it has shown a determination and was further increased to 24,000. So far, more than commitment to achieve this. 17,000 jobs have been so relocated. Now some three I spoke earlier about the relocation away from London quarters of civil service jobs are located outside London and the south-east, and about the current position on and the south-east. Alongside that, the civil service recruitment. Relocations away from London are not the currently has a work force of 487,000 full-time equivalent only issue, of course. As part of the efficiency and civil servants. That is the lowest number since 1999. In relocation programme, significant work force reductions the year ending March 2008, the turnover was 7.8 per have had to be faced and some 76,600 were achieved cent., so there is evidence of a slowing down in the rate between July 2004 and March 2008. Further reductions of departure in the current economic climate. continue to take place. To put that in context, when the Bill was first introduced Despite that context of efficiency savings and relocation, in 2001, the civil service had 39,230 entrants and 31,360 the civil service is seeking to play its role in the current leavers, and a work force of more than 500,000. By economic climate, and is actively recruiting to Jobcentre 2008, that had fallen to 23,490 entrants and 41,050 Plus to deal with the rise in registrations and to assist leavers, and a work force of 487,000. Indeed, the number people back to work. It is right that that should be 1081 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1082 Bill Bill done; if finding work becomes harder, we should do A criticism of the framework has often been that, more to help, not less. The civil service has also committed although it provides for a wide-ranging group of fully to the success of local employment partnerships. nationalities to be deemed eligible for employment under As the House will know, LEPs aim to get priority group the Crown, a significant number of nationalities and customers into work. They are a partnership between individuals are precluded. It is argued that that preclusion business and Jobcentre Plus and provide tailored support prevents as wide a pool of talent as possible from being to prepare the unemployed for work. I am pleased to chosen, denies the Crown the best available people and report that the civil service has committed to filling at prevents a diverse work force from being created. That least one in four of its administrative staff vacancies is not strictly the case. Where necessary, the current through LEPs. framework does allow individuals to be employed from outside the UK, the EEA, the Commonwealth, Switzerland The discussion on recruitment helps to illustrate the and Turkey. fact that there simply is not an endemic problem that repealing the existing legislation on nationality would The Aliens’ Employment Act 1955 allows for the solve. Whatever merits the Bill has, it would not employment of non-UK, non-eligible nationals under automatically resolve the point at issue. With the exception cover of what are known as aliens certificates. The of Jobcentre Plus, which is creating jobs for a specific circumstances in which an aliens certificate may be reason—actively to assist the British economy towards issued are set out in section 2 of the Act: recovery—recruitment is at a reasonably low level. Repealing “a certificate may be issued under this section either in respect of the legislation at this time would have little practical employment of a specified alien in specified service, or in respect effect in the current climate. of the employment of aliens generally in specified service or in service of any specified class or description; but no such certificate That is supported by the most recent findings of the shall be issued unless it appears to the responsible Minister, at the Migration Advisory Committee, which recently published time of the issue of the certificate, its first review of the shortage occupation lists for (a) in the case of a certificate in respect of the employment of a skilled workers coming to the UK from outside the EEA. specified alien in a specified service, either that no suitably qualified In announcing the publication of its recommendations, person being a British subject is available for employment in that Professor David Metcalf, the chair of the committee, service or that the alien possesses exceptional qualifications or said: experience fitting him for such employment; (b) in the case of any certificate, that suitably qualified persons “The points-based system, including the shortage occupation being British subjects are not readily available, or available in list, has to operate for the benefit of United Kingdom workers, sufficient numbers, for employment in the service, or class or especially given the current economic climate. These latest description of service, specified in the certificate.” recommendations take account of the impact of the worldwide recession on the United Kingdom. We have looked critically at In brief, a certificate can cover the employment of a the evidence regarding the occupations under review and made particular individual in a particular post or the employment recommendations which balance the needs of the UK workforce of individuals generally in specific posts or in posts of a against those of employers. It is important to note that some particular class or description. For the purposes of the shortages of skilled labour will still exist in a recession. This can civil service nationality rules, this is described as a be where there is a long-term structural shortage of skilled certificate being able to be issued where workers, where workers provide key public services, or in areas such as culture where the United Kingdom needs to maintain “there is no suitably qualified UK national available for employment global leadership.” in that post; or the alien possesses exceptional qualifications or experience for the post. Other certificates (including those covering If we consider the occupations on the list for tier 2 of the employment of aliens in posts of a particular class or description) the points-based system, we see that the terms “civil may only be issued if suitably qualified UK nationals are not servant” and “Crown employee” do not appear. Terms readily available, or available in sufficient numbers for employment that we might associate with professions in the civil in the post or class or description of the posts specified in the certificate.” service or in Crown employment—for example, “administrator”, “policy official” or “project manager” Aliens certificates currently in force cover a diverse do not appear on the list. It is reasonable to conclude range of nationalities. It may be helpful if I provide the that they do not appear because there is not a shortage House with a breakdown of where individuals covered in those areas. by the certificates come from. Fourteen certificates cover individuals from the USA. One individual is from Egypt, Any roles within the civil service or under the Crown three are from China, one is from Iran, 61 are from that may appear on the list are likely to be in more Nepal, one is from Tunisia, one is from Chile, one is specialist or technical areas and would not, as a result, from Argentina, one is from Japan, one is from Sudan, be widespread across the civil service. Situations such as one is from Ukraine, one is from the Democratic Republic a qualifying national not being available or specialist of the Congo, one is from Colombia, one is from Brazil, skills being needed would attract the use of the alien’s one is from Venezuela, and one is from Thailand. The certificate route. For example, “structural engineer” range of posts is equally widespread, from junior appears on the shortage occupation list and a structural administrative grades to specialists in scientific fields—from engineer is currently employed in the civil service under individuals employed in Ministry of Defence barracks cover of an alien’s certificate. to specialist marine biologists and, as I said, a structural You will be aware, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I have engineer. only recently undertaken this brief. One of the things As my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon suggested, that I have wanted from my officials is more detailed the use of aliens certificates has been criticised for being information on aliens certificates—how they are used an overly onerous administrative process. It would therefore and how many are used. My hon. Friend the Member help the House if I explained how a Department goes for Hendon has also been looking into that issue. I shall about getting an aliens certificate. It is not that burdensome, share the information that I have received with the House. but it is, as he said, an additional administrative layer of 1083 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1084 Bill Bill [Angela E. Smith] the late Eric Forth spoke about the Aliens’ Employment Act 1955 in a debate on the earlier version of this Bill. bureaucracy. For applications for a certificate on the He said: grounds that no qualifying national is available, “It takes a rather sensible approach, which seems to have stood the Department concerned makes a business case to the the test of time. As I understood it, the measure reverses the Cabinet Office setting out certain details: confirmation presumption, so that instead of opening our doors to anyone that there are no restrictions on the candidate’s taking regardless of their nationality, it states that we would not wish up employment or that the Home Office has given the automatically to allow people who have not chosen to express necessary clearance; confirmation that the post is non- their loyalty or identity to this country by taking British nationality to work within our Government, but that we are prepared to reserved; confirmation that no qualifying national is consider...on a case by case basis those who may wish to be so available; details of the recruitment campaign, including employed and that, if they can satisfy us that their skills are when and where the post was advertised, the number of relevant and that we need and would appreciate their services, we applications and the results of interviews; and a draft have a mechanism to allow them to do that work.”—[Official copy of the aliens certificate. Report, 14 May 2004; Vol. 421, c. 595.] For applications on the grounds that the candidate The current Bill is a somewhat negative interpretation brings specialist skills, experience or qualifications, the of the purpose of the Act, which I suggest could be business case to the Cabinet Office should provide: looked on in a much more positive light. It should be confirmation that there are no restrictions on the candidate’s seen not as a vehicle to block non-UK nationals from taking up employment or that the Home Office has gaining employment but as a mechanism that allows the given the necessary clearance; confirmation that the employment of such individuals. It is a tool whose use is post is non-reserved; details of the recruitment campaign, not discouraged, nor is the number of certificates that what is the specialist requirement of the post, and what can be issued across the civil service limited. It is driven specialist skills the candidate brings that others do not; by need, and it does not appear that Departments are and a draft copy of the aliens certificate. The Cabinet requesting a vast number of certificates. That suggests Office will then consider the case and, assuming that that they are not using the Act simply because they do consent is granted, send the confirmation back to the not have an overwhelming need to do so, as they can Department with the certificate for signature by the currently recruit successfully. Minister in that Department. Once signed, the certificate Rather than argue that the civil service is bound by is returned to the Cabinet Office. Given the numbers an Act that says, “You cannot be employed because involved, the processing of aliens certificates is not an you do not fit into nationality requirements”, we overly onerous administrative task to place on Departments should be far more positive and say, “We have an Act and agencies, so repealing the legislation and removing that says we can consider employing you, and where the need for the certificates would not solve a problem the circumstances are such that we need to do so, we or create any significant efficiency savings. will be very happy to.” I would not for one moment claim that the current To end my comments on aliens certificates on a system is perfect. It would be inappropriate to do so. positive note, I am pleased to say that the Cabinet My hon. Friend addressed the issue moderately by Office has informed me that in the light of the Bill, it is saying that the Bill would remove an administrative looking to assist the users of the nationality rules by burden and tidy up legislation, but the current law considering whether their drafting and presentation allows a workable, pragmatic approach to recruitment. could be different. Perhaps the language could be updated or the presentation modernised, and they need UK, Commonwealth and European economic area to be user-friendly. Their complexity is an issue to citizens are available to the Crown, and the issuing of consider. aliens certificates allows Departments, agencies and so on to widen their scope where necessary, perhaps when I want to raise a couple more points on which we a post requires such specialist skills that the number of need to reflect and ask questions. I should like to candidates is naturally limited, or if recruitment at a address them also in Committee. One might argue that junior level is traditionally difficult due to the geographical what we do with employment in our civil service is for location of the post, its salary, its low level or local us to determine in the best interests of the UK, but unemployment. The pool of talent available to the civil should we not also consider reciprocity? Are our rules service is therefore both wide and diverse. that different from those of other nations? Should they be? The United States is a large user of aliens certificates. It is reasonable to suggest that were there a shortage However, it seems that it would be no easier for a UK of eligible nationals available to take up posts or a lack national to enter the US civil service than for a US of expertise in specialist posts, applications for the citizen to enter ours. If individuals are not citizens of certificates would be growing in number. They are not, the United States, they cannot be considered for most and I gave my hon. Friend the relevant figures earlier. positions in the federal Government through the standard At any one time there are approximately 60 to 80 certificates process, as failure to provide a social security number in force, in a civil service that currently has 487,000 when requested will result in the application not being employees. Indeed, in the financial year 2008-09, requests processed. Some agencies can and sometimes do hire for applications fell by almost 20 per cent. In the non-citizens through special hiring procedures, but it is current financial year to date, the number requested is up to the relevant individuals to contact the agencies three, compared with six in the same period in 2008-09. directly to ascertain whether they are eligible for any I shall expand the discussion on the use of aliens available positions, and to find out how to apply. certificates. It has been argued that the mechanism is Let us consider other countries from which nationals difficult to use, which is why its use is minimal compared have joined our civil service under aliens certificates. In with the total number of civil service employees. In 2004, Thailand, non-citizens may apply for Government jobs 1085 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1086 Bill Bill only with the permission of the relevant Cabinet Minister. the verification of identity, nationality, employment Of the larger Commonwealth countries, Canada appears history and unspent criminal records. Details are available to determine any nationality criteria on a job-by-job or in the Library, as hon. Members know. organisation basis. Job adverts state either, “open to When a lack of UK residence makes it impossible to all” who have legal status to work in Canada, or a carry out meaningful checks in the UK, prospective preference for the job to be given to a Canadian citizen. employees are required to provide official and verifiable In Australia, there is a general expectation that a person overseas police certificates obtained from the country who is to be engaged as an Australian public service or countries of residence, when those are available. employee will be an Australian citizen, although non-citizens Prospective employees should provide a reasonable account can be engaged in certain circumstances. of any significant periods—six months or more in the In Europe, some nations are more open than others past three years—of time spent abroad. However, the in their recruitment. For example, in the Netherlands weight that can be attached to such evidence, when it and Finland, civil service posts are open to all European exists, will vary from country to country. economic area nationals and beyond, with the exception When a recruit needs access to sensitive material or of reserved posts. Approximately 10 per cent. are reserved assets, further checks need to be carried out under the in the Netherlands—more than in the UK, where 5 per process known as national security vetting. Vetting for a cent. are reserved. particular post may be required for different reasons: the threats from terrorism and espionage; the consequences I have spoken about reserved posts—those that are of compromise of sensitive information and other assets; reserved for UK nationals, on the ground only that information sharing across Government; and a wide special allegiance to the Crown is needed. Under the range of agreements and security protocols with Bill, the current situation would continue—that is a international partners. merit of the measure. Some posts would remain automatically reserved, while the responsible Minister National security vetting provides an assurance could make others reserved. However, would there be framework for Departments sharing information or an effect on non-reserved posts and the administration allowing other access to their assets to employees in in relation to recruitment? other Departments and agencies. Approximately 250,000 people are vetted or re-vetted on review each year In the appointment process in the civil service, candidates across the Government, the defence industry, other are subject to two procedures: character checks in relation Government contracts and the security regulated sectors, to recruitment and, when appropriate, the Government’s including transport and civil nuclear security. A wide system of security vetting. Character checks are used to range of international agreements and security protocols determine whether candidates are likely to give satisfactory require the UK to apply appropriate personnel security service and whether anything in their recent past is controls, including vetting in certain circumstances. An likely to bring discredit on the Department, agency or effective vetting system therefore provides an essential the civil service in general. level of assurance, not only for the confidentiality and Let me deal with some of the wider practical issues integrity of our own assets, but for the conduct of that might arise from the Bill, and why I believe it merits business with our close allies. further discussion in Committee. We must, of course, A question that is often asked is whether the application address national security. In particular, we should study of the nationality rules discriminates not only against carefully the range of issues around the checks that individuals whose nationality falls outside the eligible need to be carried out on those who apply for civil nations but against those UK nationals whose spouses service or military employment, outside the context of do not have the same rights as the spouses of other reserved posts. They include the need for employing EEA nationals who are living and working in the UK. Departments to ensure that applicants are who they say That is a reasonable question. The application of the they are, that they can check the applicant’s employment civil service nationality rules is not discriminatory in history, nationality, immigration status and criminal law. Section 41 of the Race Relations Act 1976 provides record, and that, when the risk justifies it, they can that it is not unlawful to discriminate on specified carry out other checks concerning the applicant’s financial grounds in pursuance of enactments, Orders in Council position, integrity and trustworthiness. or instruments made under such enactments, or in order to comply with conditions or requirements imposed The House does not need me to dwell on the reasons by such enactments. for the necessity for such checks—I suspect that hon. Members do not want me to do that, either. We are only Section 75(5) of the Race Relations Act 1976 provides too well aware that the threats to our security have that the Act does not invalidate rules restricting employment grown in recent years. However, I emphasise that it is a in the service of the Crown or by any public body vital responsibility of Government to do all they can to prescribed for the purposes of section 75(5) by regulations protect the assets of our nation and its people from any made by the Minister for the Civil Service, to persons of threats, by an informed assessment of the risks and by particular birth, nationality, descent or residence. Further, maintaining a proportionate range of measures to guard section 35 of the Race Relations Act 1976 (Amendment) against them. Regulations 2003 amended the 1976 Act so that it is not unlawful to discriminate against another on the basis of Protection against any possible insider threat is a nationality, place of residence or the length of time of central element of these measures. Under the Cabinet residence or presence in or out of the UK if the act is Office’s new security policy framework, it is mandatory done in pursuance of any enactment, Order in Council for all Departments and Government agencies to apply or instrument made by a Minister under such an enactment, the requirements of Her Majesty’s Government’s baseline or in order to comply with a requirement, condition or personnel security standard to all recruits. That covers arrangement imposed by a Minister under such an 1087 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 Crown Employment (Nationality) 1088 Bill Bill [Angela E. Smith] As the hon. Member for Hendon knows, I have had reservations about this and previous Bills under the enactment. The cumulative effect is that, under UK law, same broad title that were debated in previous Sessions. it is not unlawful to discriminate on the ground of My concerns are different from those articulated by the nationality, where to do so is to comply with obligations Minister. My current concern is that she, having poured pursuant to primary legislation. enormous buckets of cold water on the Bill, now says Concern has been expressed, however, that a that it is worth expending a lot more parliamentary Department might find itself open to a claim of time on further consideration in Committee. discrimination if it determined that an individual could The Minister made a good point about recruitment, not be employed on the ground that they were unlikely which I have also made on previous occasions—namely, to be able to satisfy a security check. Recently, an whether we really need to open up the civil service to a employment tribunal and an employment appeal wider group of people who are not currently eligible to tribunal found that a decision not to consider join its ranks. I must say that 487,000 full-time equivalents employing an Indian national on the ground that he in the civil service is rather too many. The Minister says was unlikely to get a work permit constituted indirect with some pride that it is the lowest it has been since discrimination. That case involved a private law firm, 1999, but I would like to see the number reduced to the not the civil service, but I understand that the levels under the previous Conservative Government, if precedent would also apply to the civil service. It is not not further reduced. She is on to a good point there. She inconceivable that, if a Department or agency rejected made some other points about fairness, particularly an application on the ground that completing a when some 10 per cent. of posts are reserved in the security check was either unlikely to be satisfactory or Netherlands, whereas they have already been reduced to impossible, that precedent might well apply. Further, if 5 per cent. here. a non-UK national were to be employed, having been I shall not speak at length, but I would like to put my subjected to a less stringent check than a UK national, reservations—not necessarily the same reservations that might the UK national have grounds for complaint? the Minister articulated—on the record. I congratulate These issues merit further reflection, which is why I the hon. Lady on learning the skill of articulating suggest that the Bill go forward for consideration in reservations at great length, albeit that she read them Committee. I have come to these matters only recently, from her brief. We welcome her as a new recruit to the but I appreciate that the Bill has tremendous merit. Government Front Bench on this subject. Perhaps next However, there are issues that the Government would time she will be able to articulate at similar length like to explore further, and we are therefore unable to without having to refer to any notes. support it today. I would like to take some time to reflect on those issues with my colleagues, and it would 1.13 pm therefore be helpful if the Bill were considered in Committee Mr. Dismore: I have nothing to add other than to say so that they could be discussed. that everyone agrees that there is a serious anomaly in The Bill has been subject to consultation with Her the construction of our present law, so something needs Majesty the Queen, as it would have two identifiable to be done about it. I hope that the Bill will now receive impacts on the Crown. As the House has been informed, its Second Reading. Her Majesty has asked the House to be acquainted that, Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second having been informed of the purport of the Bill, she has time. consented to place her prerogative and interest, so far as they are affected by the Bill, at the disposal of Parliament The House proceeded to a Division. for the purposes of the Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye 1.9 pm Lobby. Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): The The House having divided: Ayes 29, Noes 2. Minister spent some 51 minutes setting out her reservations Division No. 148] [1.14 pm about the Bill. Given that it has such a historical background and has been considered iteratively over many weeks, AYES months and years, it comes as a bit of a surprise to find Austin, John Meale, Mr. Alan that the Minister—who is at this moment talking to the Bottomley, Peter Newmark, Mr. Brooks Bill’s promoter—or her predecessor did not spend more Brown, Lyn Prescott, rh Mr. John time talking to the promoter to find a form of words Burt, Alistair Rammell, Bill more acceptable to the Government. Caton, Mr. Martin Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Clark, Paul As the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) said, Ruddock, Joan Corbyn, Jeremy this was originally a Government hand-out Bill, but the Smith, Angela E. (Basildon) Dunne, Mr. Philip Government have had second thoughts, probably because Spellar, rh Mr. John some focus group told them that extending employment Efford, Clive Gerrard, Mr. Neil Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry to non-British nationals in the present economic crisis, Goodman, Helen Thornberry, Emily brought about by the Government, would not sound Heath, Mr. David Timms, rh Mr. Stephen very good. That is probably why the Minister is now Hill, rh Keith Vaizey, Mr. Edward pouring cold water on the Bill, but she identified so Hurd, Mr. Nick many shortcomings that it is hard to understand how Jones, Helen Tellers for the Ayes: the Government would change their approach if the Keen, Ann Mr. Andrew Dismore and Bill went into Committee. Lammy, rh Mr. David Mark Tami 1089 Crown Employment (Nationality) 12 JUNE 2009 1090 Bill NOES Broadcasting (Public Service Content) Bill Harper, Mr. Mark Tellers for the Noes: Second Reading Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. Christopher Chope and Mr. David Philip Davies 1.30 pm The Deputy Speaker declared that the Question was Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I beg to not decided because fewer than 40 Members had participated move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. in the Division (Standing Order No. 41). This Bill is, in a sense, a sequel to the Bill that I presented last year on television licence fee abolition. It builds on some of the comments made during debate on that Bill, and approaches the issue from a slightly different direction. The argument is that if we are to have a licence fee, income from it should be expended solely in support of public service content. Ed Richards, chief executive of Ofcom, was guest speaker at a breakfast that I was privileged to attend earlier this year that discussed Ofcom’s review of public service broadcasting and content. I asked him what part of the BBC output, funded by the licence fee, was not public service content. He assured me that the definitions of the genre of public service content are so wide and all-embracing that 100 per cent. of the output of the BBC is public service content. I do not think that that accords with common sense or with the views of most people. I shall not get involved in lots of examples, referring to Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand, but I shall make the point briefly by referring to some programmes on BBC3. In the last few weeks, I have been confined to barracks by a health condition, and I was able to note how various programmes on BBC3 were described by the BBC itself. I did not waste time watching these programmes, but one programme caught my attention— “Kirsten’s Topless Ambition”, which was produced by the BBC, funded by taxpayers’ money and, according to the chief executive of Ofcom, is “public service content”. The BBC describes the programme on its website as “A documentary in which kids TV presenter Kirsten O’Brien must decide whether to take her clothes off for a lads’ mag to try and clinch bigger presenting jobs.” It adds that the programme “contains adult themes.” In other words, it contains smut. Why should that programme be funded out of public money raised by a poll tax—that is effectively what the licence fee is? I understand that BBC3 has very low viewing figures, and it is obviously trawling desperately to try to attract new viewers. Another programme that caught my attention on BBC3 was “Horne and Corden”. It was described as “Matt and James struggle at synchronised swimming, while gay reporter Tim Goodall investigates knife crime. Contains adult humour.” Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Does my hon. Friend agree that when the BBC is threatened with a lower increase in its funding than it was hoping for, which it deems a cut, it always suggests that it will need to cut important things such as news coverage and current affairs, but all it need do is cut out that kind of garbage on BBC3 and stick to what most people would consider to be core public service content? Mr. Chope: I agree absolutely. Indeed, that is what this Bill is about. It seeks to define public service content for the purposes of public service broadcasting. Clause 1(2) proposes that public service content should be “content which is primarily produced in the United Kingdom”, 1091 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1092 Content) Bill Content) Bill [Mr. Chope] don’t we know it?— “and BBC News do acknowledge that not every viewer or listener which I think has a lot of public support. Why should will feel we get it right every time.” we fund foreign-produced TV programmes and broadcast He noted that programmes from scarce public resources? Public service content would also have to satisfy one or more of the “the main story of the day on Tuesday March 24 concerned the comments by the Governor of the Bank of England on the following criteria. The first criterion would be that it desirability of further fiscal stimulation. The clip of Gordon should comprise Brown at the European Parliament was used as part of the “local, national, international news or current affairs which is reports on BBC News outlets in the context of the wider story, impartial, factual and objective”. rather than as a report simply of the PM’s speech to the European Parliament.” The words “impartial, factual and objective” are very important. Perhaps I can share a little anecdote with the The letter went on to say that I would have noted House. Hon. Members will recall that the Prime Minister that, two days later, Mr. Hannan was interviewed on addressed Members of the European Parliament, and BBC News and on the “PM” programme. However, he his speech was covered by the BBC reporter Mark was only interviewed then because 2 million people had Mardell. In advance of live questions to the Prime seen the clip on YouTube and were wondering why Minister, the Member of the European Parliament for there had not been a report on BBC News in the first South East England, Mr. Daniel Hannan, notified Mr. Mardell place. To try to explain the issue by saying, “Well, we that he would be making what he regarded as rather a covered the story of the 2 million YouTube viewers” newsworthy contribution to the debate. Mr. Mardell misses the point completely. The BBC went on to say— chose to ignore that and to absent himself from the perhaps this is Mr. Mardell speaking in code—that Chamber, and as a result Mr. Hannan’s contribution Mr. Hannan was was not recorded by the BBC. However, we know that it “‘completely perplexed and slightly stunned’ by the global reaction was recorded by Mr. Hannan and put on YouTube. to the speech.” Within a matter of hours, more than 2 million people That is what my friend, Dan Hannan, had said about it, had looked at the YouTube content of Mr. Hannan’s with typical modesty, but I think that a lot of licence fee pertinent criticisms of the Prime Minister. I can recall payers were completely perplexed and slightly stunned collecting my son from a friend’s house in Surrey that by the fact that Mr. Mardell had not felt it necessary to same afternoon and I was immediately told, “You must include the incident in his reports from Strasbourg on come and look at this. Have you seen this on YouTube?” the day. I had not, so I looked at it. Over those 24 hours, it was What was the conclusion from Mr. Thompson? By something that everybody had to see. I think that it was the way, I think that he is on £800,000 a year, but it does brilliant piece of parliamentary behaviour by Mr. Hannan, not matter about that. He ended: on which I commend him warmly. I am sure that that is “Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. I not the only reason he was so successful in the recent hope my letter has at least served to explain the thinking behind European elections and is the leading Conservative in this editorial decision.” the South East of England. That is wholly inadequate. In fact, it is contemptuous. Mr. Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con): In fact, in He is saying to those 2 million people, “To hell with it. less than 24 hours that recording became a worldwide We made that decision; we’re standing by it. We’re not phenomenon. Friends of mine from the far east and the even prepared to admit that we made an error of United States e-mailed me the hyperlink to the speech. I judgment in failing to anticipate the significance of that had no idea that it had happened until friends of mine question to the Prime Minister.” We have a lot to do on the west coast of the United States e-mailed me and before we can be sure that the “public service content” said, “You must see this.” of some BBC news programmes satisfies the criteria of being impartial, factual and objective. Mr. Chope: I am grateful for that extra information The second element of “public service content” to on the worldwide appeal of our friend Dan Hannan which I draw attention is the fact that it should include MEP. content whose primary purpose The point of the story is that after that occurred I “is to inform, educate or entertain children”. wrote to Sir Michael Lyons, who I thought was the custodian of impartiality in the BBC. My letter to him, A lot of us are concerned that in the present squeeze on dated 8 April, was passed on to the director-general of funding for public service broadcasting, traditional children’s the BBC, Mark Thompson. He was kind enough to programmes are losing out. The definition of “public respond personally to me on 27 May, apologising for service content” in my Bill would ensure that programmes the delay in his response. He recited the concern expressed designed to inform, educate or entertain children would in my letter, and said that he had asked colleagues in have a high priority and could draw on licence fee BBC News for their perspective. He said: revenue as programmes that contained public service content. “They, like me, are sorry to learn that you felt that Mr. Hannan’s speech received insufficient coverage.” The third category is content whose primary purpose Mr. Thompson did not even concede that he thought is “charitable or religious”. That speaks for itself. Again, that it had received insufficient coverage. In a sense, he there has been a lot of concern that religious or charitable was criticising those 2 million-plus people who found objectives in broadcasting are being squeezed out in the great enjoyment and entertainment in seeing the clip. BBC’s never-ceasing search for higher viewing figures. He went on to say: The fourth criterion would be that the content was “Choosing which stories to include in bulletins is of course a not otherwise likely to be provided by the market responding subjective matter”— to consumer demand. That criterion reflects the thinking 1093 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1094 Content) Bill Content) Bill of, for example, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee Friend agree that it is much more worthwhile for the in its report. I am delighted that my hon. Friend the BBC to cover horse racing, rather than spending £18 million Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is a member of that on people such as Jonathan Ross? Committee and may be able to inform us of some of its thinking later. Mr. Chope: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I regret the fact that much horse racing has been Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I am marginalised. listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman and the criteria Continuing with a response to the intervention from that he is setting out. Am I right in assuming that he the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath), does not believe that the BBC should ever televise sport, sport that was not provided by the market responding which is not part of any of those criteria? Can he to consumer demand could still be funded out of the explain to me the rationale behind asking the National licence fee. So the example of synchronised swimming Audit Office, which is an estimable body in all sorts of on BBC3 that I quoted earlier might be able to get ways, to act, in effect, as critics of future programming funding on that criterion, but the hon. Gentleman and to decide which programmes are going to be flops misses the main issue relating to the funding of sport on and which are not? the television. Clause 1(3) sates: Mr. Chope: I shall deal with the National Audit Office in a moment. On the hon. Gentleman’s reference “Where the only criterion of public service content is that contained in subsection (2)(d)”— to sport, none of the criteria would prevent the BBC from showing any programmes, but it would be able to in other words, in the case of market failure— be subsidised from the licence fee only if the programmes “the judgement relating to the likelihood of market failure shall it was producing met the criteria of public service be made by the National Audit Office, which must publish an content, so if the BBC wanted to produce programmes opinion on any matter referred to it by the Secretary of State such as those on BBC3, to which I referred earlier, it pursuant to this section.” would still be able to do that. Similarly, it would still be That is because we cannot really trust the BBC to make able to provide sporting programmes, and those would its own judgments about the likelihood of market failure. be funded by the licence fee if the BBC could establish Clause 1(3) would introduce a degree of external audit that the content would not otherwise be likely to be and objectivity into the equation. provided by the market responding to consumer demand. Clause 1(4) says: “No content shall be public service content if it fails to satisfy Mr. Heath: So I am right in saying that all the major prevailing standards of good taste and decency.” sporting occasions, which many people look forward to I hope that that would have the support of all Members seeing on the BBC, would not meet the hon. Gentleman’s without demur, because a lot of the current output does test and would not be able to be televised by the BBC not satisfy prevailing standards of good taste and decency. under his proposals. People who could not afford to pay People may want to watch or listen to vulgarity and a subscription charge would not be able to see— smut, but why should it be funded by a poll tax on [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip licence fee payers? Davies) says from a sedentary position, “ITV.” ITV is losing contracts on major sporting events because it The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, cannot afford them. What the hon. Member for Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe) rose— Christchurch (Mr. Chope) is saying is, “Either you subscribe or, sorry, the grand national, the test matches, the football cup finals are not for you.” Mr. Chope: I give way to the Minister, who I am delighted to see in his place. Mr. Chope: The hon. Gentleman misses the point big time. One of the reasons fewer sporting events are now Mr. Sutcliffe: Although I agree with the hon. Gentleman on independent television is that the BBC, with the that we would want to see good taste and decency, who benefit of unlimited public subsidies through the licence would be responsible for monitoring that and making fee, has been bidding up the price to such an extent that decisions? Would it be the National Audit Office? ITV cannot afford to show such events. I argue that if the content can be provided by the market responding Mr. Chope: No, it would not, because I am not sure to consumer demand, it is wrong that it should be that the National Audit Office is qualified to do that. funded by the licence fee payer, who is effectively paying However, the National Audit Office would be able to a mandatory poll tax for the privilege of being able to receive complaints from people who, for example, felt have broadcasting receiving equipment. that money from the television licence fee had been expended on programmes that only purported to have Philip Davies: My hon. Friend might be interested to public service content complying with the prevailing know that I was at No. 10 Downing street today with standards of good taste and decency. The National Sir Peter O’Sullevan and Frankie Dettori handing in a Audit Office would be able to adjudicate after the event petition to save horse-racing coverage on the BBC, to if such complaints were made. which I think the Minister is also sympathetic. The I would expect the providers of content to try to BBC is cutting some of the lower grade races to cherry-pick apply standards that they would set and monitor themselves. the big racing. Horse racing cuts right across the social Although I have already expressed my scepticism about divide, unlike any other sport, and people like me were how the BBC Trust operates, I did not think it reasonable brought up with fantastic people like Peter O’Sullevan, to remove any sense of self-regulation from the Bill who encapsulated quality on the BBC. Does my hon. completely. I do not know whether this is a criticism of 1095 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1096 Content) Bill Content) Bill [Mr. Chope] All that is set out on the record. We now know that there is tremendous pressure on the BBC to be more the Minister, but clause 1(4) would, I accept, rely to a open about how much money it pays its presenters. large extent on self-regulation in the first instance, There is an enormous article in one of our national although it would be subject to audit after the event. newspapers today setting out the incredible figures involved Clause 1 is linked to the payment of the licence fee, in the salaries of some of the presenters and suggesting because as clause 2(1) says: that they might be reviewed. Basically, the NAO report to which I have referred was suggesting that far too “No licence fee revenue shall be paid to the BBC by the much money was spent on some of the high-profile Secretary of State for services which do not satisfy the criteria of public service content in section 1.” presenters and not enough on the actual content. An important part of the Bill is that the National Audit It may come as a bit of a surprise to some people to Office would be brought into the frame to make sure learn that the licence fee revenue does not go directly to that the money from the licence fee—the poll tax on the BBC. Rather, the royal charter says: everybody who has a television—satisfied the criteria of “‘the licence fee revenue’ means any sums which may be paid to providing good value for money. The report on that the BBC by the Secretary of State from time to time, pursuant to would have to be published and laid before both Houses any Framework Agreement, to fund the services provided by the of Parliament. BBC for the promotion of its Public Purposes”. We do not have as much time as I had hoped for, The money is therefore under the control of the Secretary Mr. Deputy Speaker, so I shall not refer to the wealth of of State. Under the terms of the royal charter, it is for other material that I have to hand. I say with all the Secretary of State to decide how much of that modesty that the House has to address the big lacuna of money should go to the BBC. If the amount of content there being no definition of public service content. I put produced by the BBC that could be funded out of the forward the Bill as a stab at that. It might not be the licence fee were much reduced—which, unless the BBC final answer, but I hope that it will inspire my hon. wanted to change its agenda significantly, is what I Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr. Vaizey), who is to suspect would happen under the terms of the Bill—there speak from my party’s Front Bench, to go along similar would be more money, either to reduce the licence fee or lines when we get into government. In that way, there to be made available to broadcasters and providers that could be a level playing field for all the media and did want to produce public service content in accordance communications outlets, and a common description of with the criteria set out in clause 1. the criteria for public service content. There could be If one looks at the mass of documents currently equal funding for all public service content and equal circulating in the lively debate on the issue, one sees access to public subsidy, when it is deserved. among other things a set of very patronising statements from the BBC, which in effect say, “Well, we’re not sure 1.59 pm that there’s going to be any money left over at the end to prop up shortfalls in funding for public service content Mr. Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con): My hon. Friend from rival channels and organisations.” We know that a the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) has introduced large amount of public service content online is currently an important Bill. Before I address the detail, it is funded without any subsidy, but it could be eligible for important to understand the context in which the Bill is subsidy. We know also that ITV is being squeezed by being debated. the severe drop-off in advertising revenue, which means People are right to be concerned that this Government that it can no longer fund its public service obligations have lost their way as regards broadcasting policy. Next under the current regulations. The question is not whether week, on 16 June, we are expecting the publication of we should have an ITV without regional news or children’s the Digital Britain report, yet we meet in the House programming; in my book, it is about how we can today having lost the former Secretary of State, the enable ITV to have regional news and children’s right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who programming. The Bill is one way of enabling that. has been in charge of this consultation and has now Clause 2(2) says: gone to the Department of Health. We learned from our newspapers yesterday and this morning that the “It shall be the duty of the National Audit Office to keep under Minister responsible for Digital Britain, Lord Carter, is review the total cost of public service television broadcasting”; set to resign very shortly after the report has been clause 2(3) goes on: published; rumour has it that he may be on his way to “In pursuance of its duty…the National Audit Office must Australia. Having put forward the framework, he is to conduct, in each calendar year…a value for money audit of the abandon the sinking ship that is this Government’s expenditure incurred on the broadcasting of public service content broadcasting policy. that is funded by the licence fee payer.” We also have a new Minister in this House, the hon. That is highly pertinent and topical, because only a few Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Simon), who days ago my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough was recently appointed to take responsibility for Digital (Mr. Leigh) was challenging John Humphrys on the Britain and broadcasting policy. We have learned that “Today”programme on this subject, against the background he is unpaid. We should perhaps applaud the Government of the National Audit Office report into the BBC’s for trying to make some savings, having driven this substantial waste of resources in respect of its radio country into the largest debt that we have ever seen, but output. Not only that, but my hon. Friend and the it may also be a signal of how seriously they take National Audit Office were critical of how the BBC broadcasting policy. With the utmost respect to the fiddled the figures and has denied public access to Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, material that should be available to the public on terms the hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Sutcliffe), of transparency and accountability. who I have got to know in the months and years in 1097 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1098 Content) Bill Content) Bill which I have shadowed his Department, it seems Many respondents believed that the BBC had a role extraordinary that today of all days, when we are debating in educating and informing people. In fact, 83 per cent. such an important Bill about the future of the BBC, the said that they had learned useful things from television— Department has sent the Minister responsible for sport whether that was from watching the BBC 3 programmes to the House, especially given that it has so recently that my hon. Friend cited is not clear from the survey. appointed that talented Minister with responsibility for Some 78 per cent. believed that television was influential broadcasting, who displays his interest in and influence in shaping public opinion. That addresses the point over broadcasting policy by not being in the Chamber about the lack of coverage of Mr. Hannan’s speech, but someplace else. Perhaps when the Minister winds although it is perhaps worth reminding ourselves that up he can explain why his colleague is not here to deal our party continues to succeed despite the coverage with this important Bill. given to us by the BBC.

My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch and I Mr. Heath: You should worry. have debated the future of the BBC licence fee in this House on another occasion, and I commend him for Mr. Vaizey: Despite widespread pro-Liberal Democrats continuing to bring before the House important issues coverage on the BBC, they continue to slip in the polls, to do with the BBC. As I said in the previous debate, it so perhaps we should not press the BBC too much on is not Conservative party policy to abolish the licence its news coverage, as it seems to be working in our fee; I will speak later about the principle of the licence favour and against the parties that it supports. fee. It is also important to state that I am a strong supporter of the BBC, as are my Front-Bench colleagues One of the most interesting things that MORI’s and, indeed, the leader of our party. The BBC is a bit report for Ofcom explored was whether television should like family, in the sense that we do not question its cater for the interests of the majority or for different existence, and we admire and respect it, but that does audience interests. Opinion was mixed, and some not mean that we are not prepared to criticise it when participants were concerned solely with their own viewing appropriate. My hon. Friend cited some good examples enjoyment and believed that their personal needs would of the programming that the BBC is putting out on be better met by programmes that catered for the majority. BBC3 that it might be relatively difficult for it to justify. Furthermore, many felt that that would make economic I, too, have not spent my leisure hours viewing these sense, as it would help guarantee higher viewer ratings. programmes, but they seem highly questionable programmes When people were asked whether they would prefer a for the BBC to fund. Nevertheless, it is important to wide variety of programme types or more popular restate the fact that all of us, in all parts of the House, entertainment programmes, 59 per cent. opted for a should be jealous of the BBC’s editorial independence. wide variety whereas just one third chose more popular programmes. I understand my hon. Friend’s concern about the It is important not to be too prescriptive about the BBC’s failure to cover the speech by Daniel Hannan, a criteria for public service content. Many great and Member of the European Parliament. I have known well-loved programmes on the BBC would not fall Mr. Hannan for very many years. In fact, he started his within the criteria set out in the Bill—one need only career—this is perhaps pertinent—as my photocopier: think of “Strictly Come Dancing” or “Top Gear”. I put when I worked in the Conservative research department, on record my personal sadness that the BBC will obviously he spent a summer holiday doing my photocopying. It have to scrap another popular entertainment show, was there—I would not say at my knee, but perhaps at “The Apprentice”, which has been an enormous success my elbow—that he learned some of his guiding political in putting business at the heart of popular entertainment. principles, and he has gone on to become an astonishing Obviously the decision by Sir Alan Sugar to take up a success on a far wider stage than I have. The decision Government position and advocate Government policy not to cover his speech is a matter for the BBC, but it is would preclude him from carrying on presenting “The interesting that it was second-guessed by the Great Apprentice”, particularly since, as my hon. Friend the British public, and indeed the global public, who endorsed Member for South-West Surrey (Mr. Hunt), the shadow his remarks about the Prime Minister. Secretary of State, has pointed out, the next series would almost certainly be broadcast during the next What do the public want from the BBC? I hesitate to general election campaign. Of course, there is much cite a report commissioned from MORI by Ofcom in time for “Suralan”, or “Lordalan”, as we are going to case it provokes interventions from many of the hon. have to learn to call him, to change his mind and realise Members in the Chamber who might be sceptical about that his employment prospects are far more secure with its provenance. First, it showed—motherhood and apple the BBC than they would be with this outgoing Labour pie, as it were—that the audience sees television as a key Government. source of entertainment. Although the Bill sets out worthwhile criteria for the definition of public service Mr. Chope: My hon. Friend will know that the Secretary broadcasting, it is important to remember that when of State has the power to authorise the BBC to enter people switch on the BBC, as much as when they switch into sponsorship agreements. Does he see that there on ITV and Sky, they want to be entertained. However, might be a role for the Government to sponsor Sir Alan some of the valid concerns of my hon. Friend the Sugar in the next edition of “The Apprentice” and Member for Christchurch are met by the fact that make overt the way in which they are trying to manipulate people also want television to be seen as providing an public opinion? understanding of British culture and identity as a whole, as well as building understanding and awareness between Mr. Vaizey: As my hon. Friend knows, the amount communities about different values, lifestyles and spent on advertising by this Government has risen perspectives in the world around them. exponentially, and everywhere one turns there is now 1099 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1100 Content) Bill Content) Bill [Mr. Vaizey] increasingly difficult as the BBC gets £1 billion more in TV revenue and £300 million more in radio revenue Government-sponsored advertising. We fully expect that than all commercial broadcasters combined. advertising to increase as the election draws near. As he We have set out a range of options to try to keep will be aware, the shadow Chancellor, my hon. Friend the BBC within recognisable limits. First, the increase in the Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne), has made it the licence fee from £139.50 to £142.50 should be frozen— absolutely clear that a Conservative Government would the Government and the Liberal Democrats oppose in no way manipulate taxpayers’ money to promote that. We have also said that the BBC should start to Government policy in the shameful way that this publish the salaries of some of its highest paid executives Government have in the past 10 or 11 years. If and broadcasters, as well as their expenses. Our licence the Government do choose to sponsor “Suralan”, that fee payers, who pay for that, should be able to see the sponsorship will end on day one of a Conservative figures. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Government. I can make that absolutely clear. Christchurch that it is high time the BBC was audited The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) by the National Audit Office. made a valid point about what he thought was lacking We are great supporters of the BBC, but that does from the criteria in the Bill. However, as my hon. Friend not preclude our being its critical friends. We all have the Member for Christchurch made clear, the measure comments to make about the quality of the programmes has been introduced almost to provoke a discussion, that the BBC broadcasts—I am pleased that it is taking and not to be over-prescriptive. However, I add my arts programming more seriously and appointing a concern that the criteria do not include drama—which senior arts editor to supervise it. covers the well loved “Dr. Who”, “Spooks”, one-offs There is an important point at the Bill’s heart: the such as the plays about the early life of Margaret BBC has guaranteed revenues, unlike commercial Thatcher, and comedy such as “Gavin and Stacey”. broadcasters. It is therefore in a unique position to take When the current charter settlement was agreed, the risks or make programmes that will perhaps not draw in BBC was reminded that, above all, licence fee payers huge audiences but are worthy in themselves and plug want entertainment. One of the clearest messages from the gaps that commercial broadcasters cannot fill. The the public consultation on the Green Paper was the director-general of the BBC should keep that at the importance of the BBC’s role in providing entertainment. forefront of his mind as he steers the BBC through Audiences do not want an overdose of worthiness. The the last few months of a Labour Government and into BBC was told to continue to take fun seriously, with the next few years of a Conservative Administration. entertainment ingrained in all its services and made central to its mission. 2.15 pm During Ofcom’s second review of public service broadcasting last year, extensive and significant audience Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): It is a research was undertaken. There was audience support pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wantage for accessible and effective delivery of the public purposes (Mr. Vaizey), who at least gives the impression that he that underpin public service broadcasting. Most people has watched a television programme at some point. The still believe that such broadcasting delivers well-made most damning thing I heard from the hon. Member for and high-quality programmes. Christchurch (Mr. Chope) was his condemnation of programmes, only to add, “Of course, I didn’t watch It is also worth pointing out that our public service them. I just know they were rubbish.” Interestingly, one broadcasters still contribute 90 per cent. of UK-originated of the programmes that he damned had an intimate content—the BBC is in the lead there. For example, connection with a programme that the hon. Member BBC 1 had nine out of the top 10 TV shows on for Wantage commended as a valuable asset, because Christmas day.They were all made in the United Kingdom “Horne and Corden” stars one of the major players in and the top three were made outside London. More “Gavin and Stacey”, which the hon. Member for Wantage than half of all people watching television tuned in to recommended. I have seen “Horne and Corden” and it watch “Wallace & Gromit—A Matter of Loaf and was absolutely dire, but that is a matter of personal Death”, which was the Christmas day programme with taste, and has nothing to do with whether the BBC the highest ratings, with an average audience of 14.3 million. should be attempting to build on and repeat the success I share the concern of my hon. Friend the Member of a programme using another concept. for Christchurch about the future of children’s television, The difficulty with the Bill is that it gives the which is a live issue in broadcasting. The BBC provision impression—which the hon. Member for Wantage was for children is incredibly important, and the focus should keen to dispel—that the Tory party has waged war on be on what happens in some of our more commercial the BBC. That is a great shame, because the BBC is too broadcasters’ children’s programming. They are finding important to be used as a political point-scoring machine it increasingly difficult to provide, partly because of by the political parties in this House. I want to state Ofcom’s strictures on advertising during children’s television, clearly and unequivocally that we have something very which have rather backfired and made it harder to earn precious in the BBC. It is the fons et origo of public funds to make such programmes. That should be examined. service broadcasting, on which much public service Although the licence fee has imperfections, it is probably broadcasting elsewhere is based. We should be very the least worst mechanism for funding the BBC. However, proud of what it has achieved over the years. we remain concerned that the BBC is set to exceed the Does that mean that I am uncritical of the BBC? No, total of private sector revenues by larger and larger of course it does not. Nor should anyone be uncritical margins. The free, plural media market needs a strong of it. There are certain issues that we need to look BBC, but it also needs strong competition. That will be at—or, perhaps more importantly, that the BBC needs 1101 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1102 Content) Bill Content) Bill to look at. I am wary of politicians getting directly Mr. Heath: The hon. Gentleman knows that I am not involved, particularly in the editorial content of the averse to going to the race track myself, particularly at BBC. There are, however, expenditures at the BBC that Wincanton, where some of the best jumping in the are difficult to justify, and introducing more transparency country takes place; I also love watching horse racing into the funding of BBC programming and bureaucracy on television. I have to say, however, that the hon. would be worth while. There is still evidence, for example, Gentleman should not support his hon. Friend’s Bill that the BBC uses several people to do a job that would because it would prevent that happening. Not only be done by just one person in the commercial sector. I would it prevent that from happening, but it would saw exactly the same thing when I was involved in prevent the grand national from being shown, and medicine many years ago. I worked in the NHS and in many people would be very disappointed at that. the private sector when I was doing agency work, and I [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Christchurch can could see the difference between NHS operating theatres shake his head as much as he likes, but such events are and those in the private sector. There were far fewer not covered in paragraphs (a), (b), (c) or (d) in clause 1(2)— people involved in doing exactly the same job in the and those are the criteria for public sector broadcasting. private sector. I actually think that the private sector If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that the broadcasting went beyond the limits of safety in some cases, however, of such events should be funded from elsewhere, where so there are arguments both ways. is elsewhere? Where is the BBC to get the funding in The BBC needs critically to examine how it runs its order to show these big-ticket sporting events? That is business. An example is the number of duplications that the problem with his Bill. The hon. Gentleman has not we see all the time in news and current affairs. Different thought it through. He is so intent on providing the people appear to be doing the same job for different extremely narrow spectrum of things he considers to be parts of the BBC, and we wonder whether that is really the best of public service broadcasting that he will not necessary. I would like the BBC to become better attuned allow anything else. He will not allow any of us to enjoy to such issues. Some of the contracts awarded to what is ourselves: we must only be educated; we must go only to called the top talent are difficult to justify in the context church services; we must see things that nobody else of broadcasting as a whole, certainly in the present wants to see. That is going to be the function of the economic climate, and I would like to see that question BBC. What a miserable future for the BBC, as prescribed addressed as well. It is important, however, not to throw by the hon. Member for Christchurch and his Puritan the baby out with the bathwater. We must not allow friends. I am afraid that I do not and will not accept proper criticism of the BBC to be used as part of a that. I will not support the Bill today. campaign of attrition against the concept of the BBC itself. The problem with Bill of the hon. Member for 2.23 pm Christchurch Bill is that it does not provide a formula for public service broadcasting—not one bit of it. It The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, provides for a desiccated, feeble imitation of public Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): I am delighted sector broadcasting that would be the equivalent of to participate in what remains of today’s debate. The brown rice and cardboard as a diet to be put before the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, British public. The hon. Member for Wantage was right my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington to say that entertainment is part of the mix, but it is not (Mr. Simon) sends his apologies, as he had a pressing mentioned in the Bill. constituency engagement that was in his diary before he was promoted to his new post. Far from us losing our Sport, as I said in my intervention, is an essential part way on broadcasting, I believe that this Government’s of the mix, but it is not there in the hon. Gentleman’s record of support for broadcasting and where it is Bill. Culture of any kind is not there, unless it is so heading for the future has been welcomed by the majority unpopular as to be unable to achieve programming in of the serious players in the broadcasting world. any other way. Excellence in drama is not there and neither is comedy—an area where the BBC has been Mr. Vaizey rose— groundbreaking over many years and has achieved great results. Mr. Sutcliffe: Before I give way to the hon. Gentleman, That is why the Bill is unacceptable—never mind the let me point out that the Secretary of State for Health fact that it sets up the National Audit Office, for heaven’s and former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and sake, as some sort of arbiter of good taste, which is a Sport was in the House this morning—he is not lost; he function way beyond its normal parameters. I have a gave an important statement earlier on swine flu. The huge deal of respect for the NAO, but to ask it to decide new Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport whether programmes are in good taste defies any sensible furthermore was a noted distinguished journalist with definition of its present function and amounts to a the BBC and has a proud record on broadcasting issues. most extraordinary suggestion by the hon. Member for Christchurch. Mr. Vaizey: Will the Minister explain why the Minister for Sport, but not the Minister for Broadcasting, gets a Philip Davies: The hon. Gentleman mentioned sport. ministerial salary? Will he tell us where he and his party stand on the BBC’s proposed cuts to horse racing? Does he think it Mr. Sutcliffe: That is, of course, a matter for the wrong when the BBC seems so determined to show only Prime Minister and the Government. I actually think the races that any other commercial broadcaster would that the Minister for Sport should be in the Cabinet— show, or does he think the BBC should use the licence [Interruption]—and I am glad that the hon. Gentleman fee to promote wider support for horse racing, particularly agrees. He should be in the Cabinet because sport is given that it cuts across every social divide in the country? such an important issue for the whole country and it 1103 Broadcasting (Public Service 12 JUNE 2009 Broadcasting (Public Service 1104 Content) Bill Content) Bill [Mr. Sutcliffe] The description of public service television broadcasting that appears in section 264 of the Communications affects all our constituencies. I would be very pleased if Act 2003 provides the basis for the framework of public hon. Members raised that issue with the Prime Minister service broadcasting regulation set out in the Act. In at every opportunity to encourage him to make the particular, it provides the basis for Ofcom’s statutory decision pretty quickly. reviews of public service broadcasting. Ofcom has already We have had an interesting debate, but it has been undertaken two such reviews, culminating in final reports conducted in a tongue-in-cheek way by the hon. Member in 2005 and in January of this year. for Christchurch (Mr. Chope). He may be consistent in The Government believe that the framework set out the issues he raises about the BBC, but he knows that in the 2003 Act provides a valuable starting point for the Bill he has proposed would not achieve what he examination of public service content. It may be helpful wants—or, perhaps it would, which would make it even if I remind the House of the precise terms of section 264 more worrying for the BBC’s future. The hon. Member of the Communications Act, which would be lost if the for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) hit the nail on the Bill were passed. The Act lists the purposes of public head in what he said, so we have to be careful. I think service television broadcasting in the United Kingdom that we should be proud of the BBC as an organisation. as follows: It has a distinguished record over many years in accordance “(a) the provision of relevant television services which secure that with its broadcasting principles. It has been and is programmes dealing with a wide range of subject-matters are revered around the world for the quality of its public made available for viewing; broadcasting. While I agree with the hon. Member for (b) the provision of relevant television services in a manner which Wantage (Mr. Vaizey) that we should be proud of the (having regard to the days on which they are shown and the times BBC—that is the only thing on which I do agree with of day at which they are shown) is likely to meet the needs him—we can, where necessary, be the critical friend that and satisfy the interests of as many different audiences as we should be; but, in doing that, we should in no way practicable; try to undermine the BBC, which has provided us with (c) the provision of relevant television services which (taken superb programmes for many years. together and having regard to the same matters) are properly I was concerned about the comments of the hon. balanced, so far as their nature and subject-matters are concerned, Member for Wantage, who half-supported some of for meeting the needs and satisfying the interests of the available audiences; and what was said by the hon. Member for Christchurch. That sent a clear message. I thought that the hon. (d) the provision of relevant television services which (taken Gentleman’s approach to what a future Conservative together) maintain high general standards with respect to the Government would do was rather arrogant. Any loss of programmes included in them, and, in particular with respect to— the BBC’s editorial independence would be very damaging. I hope that he will assure me that a future Conservative (i) the contents of the programmes; Government would in no way damage that editorial (ii) the quality of the programme making; and independence. (iii) the professional skill and editorial integrity applied in the making of the programmes.” Mr. Vaizey: I am happy to give that assurance. The Act states that a manner of fulfilling the purposes of public service television broadcasting in the United The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Kingdom should ensure Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): There will not be a future “(a) that the relevant television services (taken together) comprise Conservative Government. a public service for the dissemination of information and for the provision of education and entertainment; Mr. Sutcliffe: As my hon. Friend the Minister of (b) that cultural activity in the United Kingdom, and its diversity, State points out, there will not be a future Conservative are reflected, supported and stimulated by the representation in Government. In case that day ever dawns, however, we those services (taken together) of drama, comedy and music” need to ensure that the BBC is protected. —as the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome pointed It is important to establish where we are heading in out, drama, comedy and music would not exist on the regard to broadcasting. Having listened carefully to BBC if the Bill were allowed to proceed— what was said by the hon. Member for Christchurch, I “by the inclusion of feature films in those services and by the want to ensure that the whole House knows that it treatment of other visual and performing arts; would be very dangerous to allow his Bill to proceed. (c) that those services (taken together) provide, to the extent that is appropriate for facilitating civic understanding and fair and well-informed debate on news and current affairs, a comprehensive Mr. Vaizey: Given that the Minister asked me to and authoritative coverage of news and current affairs in, and in guarantee the editorial independence of the BBC, will the different parts of, the United Kingdom and from around the he tell me whether he thinks that the appointment of world; Sir Alan Sugar as a Government envoy, and his continued (d) that those services (taken together)”— role in presenting a flagship BBC programme, compromise its editorial independence? 2.30 pm Mr. Sutcliffe: That has been covered in many different The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 11(2)). ways by the Secretary of State and the BBC Trust, and I think that the hon. Gentleman does a disservice in Ordered, That the debate be resumed on Friday trying to score political points. 16 October. 1105 12 JUNE 2009 Business without Debate 1106

Business without Debate EUROPEAN UNION (AUDIT OF BENEFITS AND COSTS OF UK MEMBERSHIP) BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second FUEL POVERTY BILL time. Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (20 March), That the Bill be now read a Second time. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 3 July. Hon. Members: Object. Debate to be resumed on Friday 26 June. CLIMATE CHANGE (SECTORAL TARGETS) BILL PROTECTION OF GARDEN LAND Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second (DEVELOPMENT CONTROL) BILL time. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 October. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 26 June. EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. AIRPORT EXPANSION (PARLIAMENTARY APPROVAL) BILL Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 October. time.

Hon. Members: Object. BRITISH MUSEUM ACT 1963 (AMENDMENT) BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 26 June. Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (15 May), That the Bill be now read a Second time. BROADCASTING (TELEVISION LICENCE FEE ABOLITION) BILL Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Debate to be resumed on Friday 26 June. time. LAW COMMISSION BILL [LORDS] Hon. Members: Object. Bill read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 3 July. Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63. 1107 12 JUNE 2009 Sri Lanka 1108

Sri Lanka Tamil fighters were concentrated in an area of about 30 sq km on the Vanni coast. Despite the fact that Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House 250,000 Tamil civilians also lived in this area, it was do now adjourn.—(Helen Jones.) subjected to repeated pounding by the Sri Lankan Government. The British Government led international condemnation of that tactic, which many people believe 2.33 pm killed thousands of people. I am proud to support the Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): I efforts of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, am very grateful to have this opportunity to debate the who, despite the pressure on him from diplomatic circles situation in Sri Lanka. Since the conflict between the and all the other vested interests, recognised that it is Sri Lankan Government and the Liberation Tigers of not right for any Government to behave in that way. Tamil Eelam came to its bloody end last month, some Governments need to uphold the very highest standards people might be tempted to shift their focus to other of behaviour. In February, he and the US Secretary of matters. However, enormous problems remain. In particular, State, Hillary Clinton, called for a ceasefire and full I want to draw Parliament’s attention to the plight of access to the war zone for independent humanitarian hundreds of thousands of people trapped in internment organisations. That was largely ignored, except for a camps, and the need for reliable independent sources of brief lull in April, when the Sri Lankan Government information. The international community has a said they were allowing civilians to escape. Many others responsibility to take urgent humanitarian action, but saw that lull as an opportunity for Sri Lanka to regroup the Sri Lankan Government have forfeited their position for a final onslaught, and only 300 civilians actually left of trust. the conflict zone at that time. As has been well documented, the conflict in Sri Lanka Two weeks later, my right hon. Friend visited Sri Lanka, has lasted for decades. The 2002 ceasefire briefly raised but President Rajapaksa reportedly said: hopes that an end could be negotiated, but peace talks “I don’t need lectures from Western representatives”. stalled the following year. As the latest Library briefing Sri Lanka had always denied using heavy weapons paper acknowledges: against civilians, but on 27 April it then announced that “While for a long time it looked as if there had simply been a it would cease using weapons that could cause civilian return to the military stalemate...in retrospect the advantage was casualties. To most hon. Members that would be a clearly shifting in favour of the Government.” pretty clear indication that it previously had used them In November 2005, President Rajapaksa was elected on and that the original denials were completely untrustworthy. a nationalist Sinhalese platform, and his Government The Sri Lankan Government’s words therefore had no “appeared increasingly intent on achieving a military victory over value. the LTTE”. It is impossible to verify the shocking numbers of This culminated in January 2008, when the Government those affected by the conflict, owing to the lack of any pulled out of the 2002 ceasefire. Even with the credit independent evidence, but they are undoubtedly huge. crunch enveloping the world, the Sri Lankan Government A quarter of a million people were in the so-called safe decided to invest an incredible share of the country’s zone, facing daily bombardment; 80,000 people have economy in fighting a military campaign against ethnic died in the conflict since it began and at least 7,000 Tamils. Last year, they voted to spend $1.9 billion of the Tamil civilians are thought to have died this year alone. country’s budget on the military. Coincidentally, they Even in January 2008, the US Congressional Research have since asked the international community, through Service estimated there were about 300,000 displaced the International Monetary Fund, for a loan. This is for people in Sri Lanka, including Sinhalese as well as a total of—believe it or not—$1.9 billion. Although it is Tamils. A further 250,000 Tamils are thought to be claimed that this is to help Sri Lanka through the global living in London, having left Sri Lanka for whatever economic crisis, it is hard to escape the conclusion that reason. The impact of the conflict has been huge. this money is actually to bankroll a massive military Looking forward, even though the immediate fighting campaign against the country’s own people. The is over, most commentators agree there are going to be international community therefore has a responsibility many problems. Although the LTTE has been destroyed, to think long and hard before it agrees to such a loan. If the grievances that led to its rise have not been addressed. the loan is granted, it will send out the message that the Many Tamils actually opposed the Tigers, but they are IMF is the place to go for any Government who want to even more opposed to the nationalist Sinhalese extremists. fund a civil war. I hope the Minister will assure me that The way in which Sri Lanka ruthlessly crushed the our Government do not want the IMF to be seen as a Tamils will undoubtedly lead to resentment among fall-back for any country that wants to attack its own those Tamils who survived the onslaught—indeed, to ethnic populations. say that Tamils living elsewhere around the world are Throughout 2008, the Sri Lankan Government decided resentful would be an understatement. As Parliament to take on the Tamils no matter what the cost, financial has learned in the two months during which a protest or humanitarian. It has been impossible to follow the has been going on here, British Tamils are anxious, conflict in Sri Lanka satisfactorily, because its Government angry and motivated. Many feel they have nothing have not permitted any independent reporting of the more to lose. So far they have been entirely peaceful, conflict. By January, they had used their military might but it is possible that some will have been radicalised by to take the town of Kilinochchi and the causeway the brutality back home. between Jaffna and the mainland at Elephant pass. The Britain has done more than almost any other country Government had more than 160,000 troops—in contrast, to resolve the conflict, but despite our efforts we were by February there were an estimated 1,000 in the ultimately powerless to prevent thousands of Tamils Tamil Tigers. dying. If we are disappointed and sad about that, we 1109 Sri Lanka12 JUNE 2009 Sri Lanka 1110 can only imagine how Britain’s Tamils feel. They are As a gesture, the Sri Lankan Government should angry, and that anger is likely to be shared around the allow the mercy mission ship to unload its humanitarian world. I therefore wish to take this opportunity to urge cargo. This would show the world the kind of magnanimity our Government to do all they can to work closely with that we are looking for. I understand that the ship is Tamil representatives and ensure that their voice is said to have the wrong paperwork and cannot be allowed heard. However, of immediate short-term concern is to dock, but in reality Sri Lankan officials have been on the fact that as many as 300,000 people are currently in board and know that the cargo is purely humanitarian. refugee camps—that is the reason I called for this Given the exceptional need for humanitarian assistance, debate. the Sri Lankan Government would earn a lot of respect A kind of doublespeak exists when it comes to Sri Lanka. around the world if they allowed an exception to the The camps are described by the Sri Lankan Government usual rules and permitted the ship to unload its cargo. as welfare villages, but even the Library says that they Such a gesture would be much appreciated, whereas not are better described as internment camps. Last month, allowing it to unload simply looks mean and unnecessarily despite the desperate conditions in Sri Lanka, the last nasty. I have written to the Sri Lankan high commission neutral organisation in the conflict zone, the International asking Sri Lanka to permit the ship to unload and I Red Cross, pulled out because the Sri Lankan Government hope it will show that it has a heart. had barred it from the camps. Some 300,000 civilians I also want to take this opportunity to call on Sri Lanka live in the camps, with huge numbers sick, malnourished to show heart over the case of doctors who looked after or injured. But the Sri Lankan Government are still the sick and dying in the conflict zone. A group of refusing to allow any independent monitors or agencies doctors who worked in the conflict zone are being held into the area. There must be unhindered access for on suspicion of collaboration and could be in detention independent international agencies like the Red Cross for a year or more before being tried. Many people are and the UNHCR to all the internment camps. concerned that the doctors should not be treated like this, and feel that they are in fact heroes rather than Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): As usual, my criminals. They have not been heard from since they hon. Friend makes a powerful speech on the plight of were detained, but their work during the conflict has the Tamil people in Sri Lanka. Does she agree that the been widely praised. They treated patients in makeshift camps should be opened to the media? One of the real health facilities in the war zone. They undoubtedly problems in all this has been the complete absence of helped to save many lives, and the UN has described objective press reporting—indeed, any press reporting— them as “heroic”. However, they were also a source of because of the Sri Lankan Government’s refusal to embarrassment to the Government. allow media access. As journalists and independent monitors were banned Siobhain McDonagh: I agree with my hon. Friend, from the conflict zone, the doctors became one of the and I will come to that point later in my speech. few available sources of news about the fighting. They told the world that shelling had in fact come from the The conditions in the camps have not improved, and Government side and had indeed killed civilians. Sri Lanka, with the monsoon season on its way there is an even however, has accused the doctors of spreading falsehoods higher risk of disease. I hope that Britain can lead the and has implied that doctors were not really looking way in calling for urgent humanitarian action now. after civilians at all, accusing them of supporting the Although the fighting is officially over, humanitarian Tamil Tigers instead. assistance is needed now more than at any other time in the past six months. Sri Lanka wants the world to believe that not a single The Government there have claimed that conditions civilian died in its final offensive, but few people believe are improving, but if that is true they have no reason to that. Imprisoning the doctors would help to hide an fear the presence of independent monitors or reporters, inconvenient truth. I hope that our Government will and if conditions are worsening, they have a greater therefore do all within their power to ensure that the reason to need the help of independent aid agencies. doctors are treated well and receive independently verifiable Many people fear that Sri Lanka’s claim about improving justice. I hope that my hon. Friend can assure me that conditions in the camps is just a way to prevent external the Government are doing all they can to help the agencies from showing the world what is really going doctors. on. It is illogical for there still to be heavy restrictions on I have spoken to Ministers about Sri Lanka many the media, aid agencies and human rights groups entering times. The Foreign Secretary has shown extraordinary the camps now that the war is over. I hope my hon. resolve in his efforts to help Tamils caught up in the Friend will comment on the need for independent conflict. Britain has, in my view, gone as far as any monitoring of the camps in his reply. I hope he will also Government in working for peace and a solution to this comment on the need to ensure the safety of civilians humanitarian crisis. Our Government have repeatedly and even former LTTE cadres. called for a political solution that establishes a meaningful In order to achieve a long-term peace, there must be role for Tamil and other minorities in national political reconciliation, and that means treating people with life. Unfortunately, the UN has not covered itself in respect. It is not right to intern mass populations, and glory. The Security Council made strong statements, civilians must be allowed to resettle as soon as possible. but we all know that words are not enough and there Interning mass populations breaches the rule of law has been no action because Russia, China, Japan and and Governments should not be permitted to repress Vietnam prevented it. minority populations through the use of long-term The cause of the Tamils has been my first foray into internment. Again, I hope that my hon. Friend will international relations and has been particularly depressing. agree that this can be achieved only with independent Thousands are dead; many hundreds of thousands are monitoring. homeless. They need our help now and I hope that the 1111 Sri Lanka12 JUNE 2009 Sri Lanka 1112

[Siobhain McDonagh] We welcome the Sri Lankan Government’s undertaking to return the bulk of the IDPs to their homes within Government will do all they can to reassure Britain’s 180 days. Of course, we look forward to seeing how they Tamils, and everyone else around the world who believes plan to achieve that, and how we could offer assistance. in decency and values in foreign affairs, that we are on The recent visit to Sri Lanka by the United Nations their side. Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, who was able to visit four of the IDP camps, and his subsequent briefing to members of the Security Council, were important, but 2.46 pm continued engagement by the UN is essential to keep The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth the spotlight of international concern focused on Sri Lanka. Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): May I congratulate my hon. The United Kingdom will continue to offer practical Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain help in addressing the needs of the IDPs. Since September McDonagh) not only on securing today’s debate but on 2008, my former Department, the Department for her long track record in fighting to bring the plight of International Development, has allocated £12.5 million the Tamils in Sri Lanka to the House’s attention? The to support the work of the international humanitarian issue is not only important around the world, but for agencies. DFID’s contributions will continue to focus the foreign policy values for which the UK should on the immediate needs of the IDPs, but they will also stand. It is absolutely right that my hon. Friend should help to support displaced people in making a dignified choose now—at the end of a 25-year conflict—to raise and safe return to their homes. That could include these incredibly important issues. activities such as mine mapping to assist in the demining Of course, we are relieved that the thousands of process, and providing shelter and basic services for civilians who were trapped in the conflict zone are no survival and the recovery of people’s livelihoods. longer at immediate risk from the fighting, but we must also be clear that this is no time for celebration. Too We have always made it clear that there could be no many Sri Lankans died during three decades of conflict. satisfactory military solution to the conflict; my hon. We may never know the final figure, but it is reasonable Friend made that plain in her contribution, too. Lasting to assume that it was far more than the 70,000 that is peace can come about only as a result of an inclusive frequently cited. political process, in which all communities in Sri Lanka believe genuinely that they are accepted and valued The significant challenges that now face the country members of society. After years of conflict, the process are threefold: to provide immediate relief for the of political reconciliation will not be easy. My right thousands of displaced civilians; to ensure their hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary made the point strongly rehabilitation and resettlement; and to initiate a to the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister last week that process of political reconciliation that is genuinely and winning the peace could end up being harder than authentically inclusive. winning the war. We therefore very much welcome the As my hon. Friend said, as soon as the fighting was comments made by the President of Sri Lanka in his over my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the victory day speech on 3 June: Foreign Secretary spoke to the President and Foreign “The war fought against the LTTE was not a war against the Minister of Sri Lanka and urged the Sri Lankan Tamil people”, Government to launch a genuine political process and to address the needs of the internally displaced persons—the and that IDPs. I think that we would all be united in saying that “It is now time to win the hearts of the Tamil people”. the most pressing priority has to be tackling the We also welcome his acknowledgement, at the end of humanitarian situation. Shockingly, there are now more the UN Secretary-General’s visit, that than 280,000 civilians in the IDP camps. Any country would struggle to cope with that number, and that is “addressing the aspirations and grievances of all communities why the presence of the UN and international humanitarian and working towards a lasting political solution” agencies is so important, but they can provide the much is needed assistance only with the full co-operation of the Sri Lankan Government. “fundamental to ensuring long-term socio-economic development” Since the visit to Sri Lanka at the end of April by my In Sri Lanka. Of course, when it comes to those fine right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and French aspirations, the proof of the pudding will be in the Foreign Minister Kouchner, the Sri Lankan Government eating. We will expect to see the details of how the have shown a greater willingness to issue visas to agency Sri Lankan Government intend to take a process of staff and to improve agency access to the IDPs, but reconciliation forward. problems remain. The camps are overcrowded without Any reconciliation will require legitimate grievances adequate clean water or adequate medical facilities. from the past to be addressed before we can move on to Families who were separated when they fled the fighting the future. The President recognised that during the have still not been reunited. The Sri Lankan Government Secretary-General’s visit. We welcome the President’s must demilitarise the camps as soon as possible and commitment, in his joint statement with the Secretary- grant unhindered access to the aid agencies and freedom General, to taking measures to address possible violations of movement to the IDPs. of international humanitarian and human rights law. When they met last week, my right hon. Friend the My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary re-emphasised Foreign Secretary urged the Foreign Minister of Sri Lanka the need for such a process of accountability to the to make continued progress on those fronts. He also Sri Lankan Foreign Minister last week, and urged the made it clear that early resettlement must be an essential Sri Lankan Government to make it clear how they part of any reconciliation process. intend to follow up on the President’s commitment. 1113 Sri Lanka12 JUNE 2009 Sri Lanka 1114

We have always been clear that the United Kingdom historic opportunity now to heal the wounds caused by would fully support an independent, credible and years of violence and to create a Sri Lanka in which all transparent investigation into allegations of breaches in communities— international humanitarian law committed by all parties to the conflict. We cannot be certain exactly what Siobhain McDonagh: What is the Government’s view happened during the fighting, particularly towards the on the access of journalists and international reporters end of the conflict, but enough reports have surfaced to the zone? for us to have grave concerns about the number of civilians who might have died as a direct result of the Mr. Lewis: Any Government who are content with fighting in the conflict zone. We are well aware of the way in which people in such circumstances are credible reports suggesting that thousands of civilians being treated should—taking account of security died between January and May this year. considerations—ensure that journalists have access. We hope the Sri Lankan Government will be willing to I should like specifically to address my hon. Friend’s consider that. point about the doctors. We are very concerned that the For Sri Lanka to move forward, all communities— three Sri Lankan doctors, who had been on the front Sinhalese, Tamils and Muslims—must feel that they line in the war zone, treating wounded civilians, as she have an equal stake in that society. We will continue to said, were arrested on 18 May by the Sri Lankan use our influence and continue to work with the Government on charges, we believe, of giving false Sri Lankan Government and other partners to help information to the media. When our Foreign Secretary bring this about, so that we can move from conflict and discussed matters with the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister war to an authentic process of peace and on 5 June, he raised that specific issue, and we will reconciliation. continue to follow the cases closely. I shall be happy to Question put and agreed to. keep my hon. Friend informed of developments. 2.55 pm In conclusion, many challenges still face the Government House adjourned. and the people of Sri Lanka, but there is also an

51WS Written Ministerial Statements12 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 52WS

with the UK’s policy for Afghanistan and Pakistan Written Ministerial announced by the Prime Minister on 29 April 2009 and is essential to the long-term stability of Afghanistan. Statements Following discussions on the NTM-A’s tasks with my NATO colleagues this week, I can announce the UK will contribute to the mission by leading the ANA’s Friday 12 June 2009 combined arms training school. The school will be multinational and will provide “train the trainer” courses across Afghanistan for ANA instructors in junior officer, non-commissioned officer (NCO), infantry support BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS weapons, armour and artillery training. The school represents a new stage in the development of the ANA’s National Minimum Wage training. The UK will therefore be able to transfer some of its personnel already engaged in ANA training to the school and so there will be no need to increase UK force The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr. Pat levels. The UK will also continue to provide mentoring McFadden): My right hon. Friend the First Secretary of teams for the ANA and ANP in Helmand province and State, Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and ANA officer candidate training in Kabul. Skills and Lord President of the Council has made the following statement. I am pleased to announce that the Government have today written to the Low Pay Commission setting out the remit for their 2010 report. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE The Commission is asked to: Monitor, evaluate and review the national minimum wage (NMW) and its impact, with particular reference to the effect on EU Energy Council pay, employment and competitiveness in the low paying sectors and small firms; the effect on different groups of workers, including different age groups, ethnic minorities, women and people with The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy disabilities and migrant workers and the effect on pay structures. and Climate Change (Mr. David Kidney): I am pleased Review the levels of each of the different minimum wage rates to outline the agenda items for the forthcoming Energy and make recommendations for October 2010. The Commission Council in Luxembourg on 12 June where Andy Lebrecht, is also asked to make provisional rate recommendations as appropriate deputy permanent representative to the EU, will represent for October 2011. the UK. Consider the detailed arrangements for an apprentice minimum wage under the NMW framework (as set out in the NMW The first item on the agenda will be a discussion of Act 1998), and to recommend the rate and arrangements that the Commission’s proposal for a Council directive imposing should replace the existing exemptions, together with the timing an obligation on member states to maintain minimum for its introduction. stocks of crude oil and/or petroleum products. The Commission is asked to do this with reference to: I also expect the Commission to give a progress a) the issues and groups to which they have particular regard report on its proposals for directives of the European when reviewing the established rates, as laid out above; Parliament and Council on the labelling of energy-related b) the need to ensure that sufficient volume, quality and products, the energy performance of buildings, and the sectoral variety of apprentice places are available to meet labelling of tyres. These were part of the Second Strategic Government targets, in particular when the education participation age is raised in England in 2013 and 2015; and European Energy Review which the Commission produced in November 2008. c) the effective functioning of the education market and young peoples’ choices with reference to the level of financial payment Over lunch, I expect that representatives will discuss available on other education and training routes. informally the location of the Association of Energy Report to the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Regulators. The candidate cities are Ljubljana, Bratislava Business, Innovation and Skills by the end of February 2010. and Bucharest. The new terms of reference for the Low Pay Commission Finally, there will be short items of information on follow the Government’s acceptance of the Commission’s international relations in the field of energy. recommendations in their 2009 report on introducing a minimum wage for apprentices. Copies of the remit have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS

DEFENCE DEFRA (Departmental Report) NATO Training Mission for Afghanistan The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): My 2009 departmental At the Strasbourg-Kehl summit in April 2009, NATO report, which contains information on progress against agreed to establish the NATO training mission for the Department’s strategic objectives, public service Afghanistan (NTM-A) to help support the development agreement target, the challenges ahead and summary of a capable and self-sustaining Afghan National Army expenditure plans for 2008-09, will be laid before Parliament (ANA) and Afghan National Police (ANP). This accords today. The report is also available on DEFRA’s website. 53WS Written Ministerial Statements12 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 54WS

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE progress on our human rights concerns. The Government remain concerned about the human rights situation in General Affairs and External Relations Council Cuba, but continue to support a policy of engagement. Continuation of the political dialogue will allow more time for it to achieve results. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Burma and Commonwealth Affairs (Chris Bryant): The General On Burma, we expect the Council to discuss Affairs and External Relations Council (GAERC) will developments in the trial of Aung San Suu Kyi, and in be held on 15 June in Luxembourg. My right hon. particular the need for a robust EU response in the Friend the Foreign Secretary and the Minister of State event of a guilty verdict. It is not yet clear whether a for Europe will represent the UK. verdict will come before the GAERC. Were Aung San The agenda items are as follows: Suu Kyi to be subjected to a further period of house GENERAL AFFAIRS arrest, or worse, imprisoned, this would remove the last Preparation of the 18-19 June European Council shred of credibility from elections planned for 2010. In The GAERC will discuss the presidency’s agenda for such circumstances we would expect the Council to the June European Council. The European Council will issue strong conclusions outlining the steps the EU focus on EU institutional issues, including Ireland’s planned to take in response. guarantees on the Lisbon treaty and Commission President Western Balkans Barroso’s re-appointment. On the Western Balkans, Ministers will agree conclusions The Council will also discuss the economic, financial on visa liberalisation, regional co-operation, and Bosnia and social situation, taking “first decisions” on financial and Herzegovina (BiH). The UK is not a party to the regulation based on the Commission’s proposals on the Schengen agreement and so does not participate in de Larosière report as well as examining the progress of decisions on visa liberalisation. On BiH, the EU will the G20 summit outcomes. There will also be a discussion underline the importance of further reform, and reaffirm of climate change funding mechanisms in order to help its commitment to the five objectives and two conditions develop an EU position ahead of the Copenhagen that need to be completed before transition from the climate change conference in December. Illegal migration office of the high representative to a solely EU special in the Mediterranean is likely to be discussed, as is the representative-led mission can occur. Ministers may Ukraine/Russia gas dispute. also discuss co-operation by the countries in the region with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Finally, on external issues, we expect coverage of the Yugoslavia (ICTY). situation in Afghanistan / Pakistan, the Middle East and Burma. AOB The Government support these discussions at the Moldova June European Council. In particular, we welcome the Ministers may discuss the EU’s relationship with continued co-ordinated EU response to the economic Moldova, and the current political uncertainty following and financial situation. the failure to elect a new President and the requirement Enlargement for new parliamentary elections. They will emphasise the importance of holding free and fair elections. The Council is likely to take stock of the progress of accession negotiations with Croatia, delayed due to Illegal Migration Slovenia blocking the nine chapters ready for opening There will be a short discussion of illegal migration or closing. The Government believe that bilateral disputes in the Mediterranean region, at the request of Greece. should not delay the accession negotiations. We continue We expect Ministers to focus on increasing and to urge both countries to find a mutually acceptable strengthening co-operation in Europe to tackle the solution to their territorial dispute and support the increasing flows of illegal migration. The UK supports efforts of Commissioner Rehn to facilitate this. this and recognises the particular challenges that are EXTERNAL RELATIONS faced by Greece and other Mediterranean countries. We are also keen to further the UK’s bilateral relationship Middle East Peace Process (MEPP) with Greece on migration through the provision of The GAERC is likely to reiterate EU support for a technical advice and assistance. two state solution in accordance with previous agreements Georgia between the parties; access to Gaza and a comprehensive, regional approach. We also expect Ministers to express Ministers’ discussions are likely to focus on the continued their support for the US commitment to the MEPP, and role of the EU monitoring mission (EUMM), whose reaffirm the EU’s readiness to work in close co-operation mandate is due for renewal in September. Ministers are with the US and other international partners towards also likely to take into account the outcome of discussions achieving a lasting peace. The EU-Israel Association in New York on the renewal of the UN mission’s Council will take place in the margins of the GAERC. mandate, and the possibilities for increased co-operation between international missions on the ground. Cuba Ministers may discuss Cuba on the occasion of the Overseas Security Information (Business) annual review of the EU’s common position and the parallel review of the recently re-instated EU-Cuba political dialogue. The Council is likely to adopt conclusions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign which: renew the EU’s commitment to the common and Commonwealth Affairs (Chris Bryant): My noble position and dual track engagement with Government Friend the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth and civil society; confirm the continuation of the political Office (Lord Davies of Abersoch) has made the following dialogue; and express concern at the lack of concrete written ministerial statement: 55WS Written Ministerial Statements12 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 56WS

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) is committed WORK AND PENSIONS to providing British companies with information on a range of security related issues they might face when operating or investing overseas. On 1 May the Government launched a new product, titled “Overseas Security Information for Business” (OSIB), which will Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer provide this information free of charge through the web site of Affairs Council UK Trade and Investment. The intention is to give useful support to British business in order that it can successfully meet the key security related challenges of doing business overseas and to improve their competitiveness. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work The information provided will be both generic and country and Pensions (Jonathan Shaw): The Employment, Social specific. While OSIB is an FCO/UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council was held initiative a great deal of its added value is the result of bringing on 8 June 2009 in Luxembourg. I represented the United together systematically a range of sources of information from Kingdom. across Government. The new product will cover issues such as political security risks, bribery and corruption, physical and The main agenda item at the Council was the preparation personnel security, the terrorist threat and organized crime. It is of the social and employment aspects of the June presented in a co-ordinated and easily accessible way, including European Council to be held on 18 and 19 June. There links to useful non-governmental web sites. was also a ministerial exchange of views on the Lisbon OSIB will complement the information and advice already agenda post-2010. made available through the FCO travel advice to British nationals In introducing the main policy debate, the Czech who travel or reside overseas. Also, it will draw on, and complement, information provided by our Embassies and High Commissions, presidency emphasised the contribution of the 7 May who in many cases already have arrangements in place to exchange employment summit held in Prague and the Commission’s information on security issues with locally based British companies 3 June jobs communication. Member states, including and to provide information on request to business visitors. the UK, welcomed the Commission communication In setting up this new product the Government have worked and its emphasis on skills and the reform agenda. A closely with business in order that the product can best meet number of member states, including the UK, highlighted business needs, and reflect business advice. UKTI intend to budgetary concerns about the European social fund establish shortly a joint advisory group, to be chaired by a proposals. business representative, comprising a cross section of business, and officials from the Government Departments most closely The Council adopted without comment the Council involved in the initiative. We anticipate that the joint advisory decision on the guidelines for employment policies of group will meet three times per year. It will provide direction to the member states and endorsed the Employment OSIB and facilitate collaboration with key international business Committee opinion on skills and mobility. The Council security associations. adopted conclusions on flexicurity in times of crisis, on OSIB supersedes the previous security information service for social services as a tool for active inclusion and on business overseas (SISBO), a joint business/FCO venture which closed on 30 April. The FCO and UKTI have worked closely with equality for women and men in active and dignified the SISBO board to achieve a successful transition from SISBO ageing. The Council also adopted conclusions on the to OSIB. inclusion of the Roma. There was also a discussion of the Commission proposal to extend social security rights NORTHERN IRELAND to third-country nationals. The UK is not opted-in to this proposal. The presidency concluded that further Chief Constable’s Annual Report preparatory work on the proposal was needed. The Council noted progress reports on revision of The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun the directive on pregnant workers and on the directive Woodward): I have received the annual report for 2008-09 on equal treatment of the self-employed. The Council of the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern also noted a presidency progress report on the anti- Ireland which is being laid before Parliament today as a discrimination directive. The incoming Swedish presidency Command Paper. underlined its hopes of continuing work and reaching Copies of the report are available from the Library of political agreement in November. the House. Under Any Other Business, the Council took note of information from the Commission on the status of WALES implementation of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The Council noted reports Departmental Report from the presidency of conferences it had hosted. At the Ministers only lunch, there was a discussion The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain): I on post-2010 successor to the Lisbon strategy. For the have today published the Wales Office’s 2009 departmental UK, I stressed the importance of the skills agenda and report. Copies will be available in the Vote Office and the importance of undertaking reforms to improve on the Wales Office website from 12.00. productivity and employment potential.

15P Petitions12 JUNE 2009 Petitions 16P

A list of those locations on the strategic roads network Petitions in England worst affected by noise was published in Hansard in November 1999. The list identified lengths Friday 12 June 2009 of road where investigations into the mitigation of traffic noise would be handled by the Highways Agency as a priority, using a £5 million ring-fenced annual OBSERVATIONS budget. The sites that met the necessary criteria are being treated and the work is due for completion by March 2011. TRANSPORT The M6 between Junctions 13 and 14 did not meet all of the necessary criteria. These were: Traffic Noise (M6) (i) the road must have been opened before June 1988; The Petition of residents of the Borough of Stafford, (ii) the calculated roadside noise level must be greater than or and others, equal to 80 decibels; and Declares that noise from traffic on the M6 motorway (iii) the calculated noise level must exceed the design year in the section between junctions 13 and 14 is unacceptably prediction by 3 decibels or more. high especially for residents who live near the motorway The surface of the M6 is continually monitored to and that the carriageway of this section of the motorway assess its condition and decide on when resurfacing will is therefore in need of replacement. be necessary. At present, the surface between Junctions The Petitioners therefore request that the House of 13 and 14 has not deteriorated to the extent that intervention Commons urges the Secretary of State for Transport to is necessary and the Highways Agency has no plans in make early arrangements for a programme of works to the current forward programme for a resurfacing scheme. refurbish the section of the M6 motorway between As with all new resurfacing schemes, a material with junctions 13 and 14 to include replacing the existing noise reducing properties will be used when the time carriageway surface with a modern noise-reducing surface. comes for the existing surface to be replaced. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Recently, national policy on noise has changed and Mr. David Kidney, Official Report, 19 May 2009; Vol. 492, DEFRA are now tasked with producing noise maps c. 1473.] and action plans for particularly noisy areas, including road corridors, in line with the EU Environmental [P000369] Noise Directive, which was transposed into UK law Observations from the Secretary of State for Transport: under the Environmental Noise (England) Regulations Current Government policy is to resurface motorways 2006. Noise maps for England’s roads were published and trunk roads in accordance with normal maintenance on 16 May 2008 and work to produce noise action plans needs, unless noise is exceptionally intrusive. for public consultation is now under way.

1013W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1014W

There are therefore no plans to review the criteria for Written Answers to entitlement for an armed forces pension.

Questions Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many people who retired from the armed forces before 1975 and are (a) disabled, (b) injured Friday 12 June 2009 and (c) have ill health as a result of their service do not receive an armed forces pension. [278916]

DEFENCE Mr. Kevan Jones: This information is not held. If an Air Force: Housing individual had been invalided from the armed forces with a disability attributable to or aggravated by service Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for they would have been considered for an armed Defence what his plans are for use of the vacant United forces pension. Should the disability arise after the States’ European Command housing units at (a) RAF individual had left the armed forces, and it is proved Molesworth and (b) RAF Chevelston; and if he will that the disablement was caused by service, they may be make a statement. [278984] eligible to receive an award under the War Pension Scheme. Mr. Kevan Jones: The United States Department of Defence announced on 15 April 2009, that the two Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for residential estates at RAF Molesworth and RAF Chevelston Defence how many people who retired from the armed were to be released to the Ministry of Defence. forces before 1975 and who had served in (a) Northern If they are not required for defence purposes, the Ireland, (b) the Second World War, (c) Greece, (d) estate will be disposed of in accordance with HM Korea, (e) Cyprus and (f) Palestine do not receive an Treasury guidelines (Managing Public Money). armed forces pension. [278921] Armed Forces: Pensions Mr. Kevan Jones: This information is not held centrally Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Defence what the cost to the public purse would be of extending eligibility for a full armed forces pension to those who retired from the armed forces before 1975; and what percentage of his Department’s budget this Crown Dependencies: Armed Forces would represent. [278881]

Mr. Kevan Jones: It is not practical to make an Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for accurate estimate of the cost of making pension awards Defence what UK armed forces are based in (a) St. to those service personnel who served less than 22 years Helena, Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha, (b) (16 years for officers) reckonable service prior to 1975. South Georgia and the Sandwich Islands and (c) the Given the similarities with other schemes, the cost of Falkland Islands. [279093] providing pensions for pre-1975 service on a retrospective basis across the public sector would be prohibitive— Bill Rammell: There are some 1,250 UK armed forces exceeding tens of billions of pounds. personnel based in the South Atlantic Islands, the majority on the Falkland Islands, supported by a small detachment Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for based on Ascension Island. This figure varies during Defence (1) if he will consider extending eligibility for the year due to individual posting plots and unit moves. an armed forces pension to those who retired from the There are no UK armed forces based in St. Helena, armed forces before 1975; [278882] Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and the Sandwich (2) if he will review the criteria for entitlement to a Islands. full armed forces pension for people who retired from the armed forces before 1975; and if he will make a statement; [278919] (3) when the criteria for entitlement to a full armed Departmental Billing forces pension for people who retired from the armed forces before 1975 were last reviewed; and if he will make a statement. [278920] Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many and what proportion of invoices his Mr. Kevan Jones: There remains no realistic prospect Department and its agencies paid within 10 days of that this or any Government could afford to address receipt in each of the last 12 months; and if he will these public sector pension legacy issues. For further make a statement. [278827] details I refer the hon. Member to the speech given by the then Minister of State for the Armed Forces in the Adjournment Debate on 31 January 2007, Official Report, Mr. Kevan Jones: Information currently available for column 338-340, which clearly set out the legislative the Department, its agencies and trading funds is provided and policy background to this matter. in the following table: 1015W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1016W

MOD and agencies UK hydrographic office Met office Defence science and technology laboratory % paid Total within 10 Total % paid within Total % paid within % paid within Month invoices days invoices 10 days invoices 10 days Total invoices 10 days

June 2008 — — — — — — 2884 23.6 July 2008 — — — — — — 2466 27.5 August 2008 — — — — — — 2445 19.4 September 2008 — — — — — — 2772 23.9 October 2008 — — — — — — 2393 23.1 November 2008 390,354 72.3 — — — — 2371 19.7 December 2008 415,608 85.0 — — — — 3050 26.0 January 2009 361,494 80.0 — — 1267 55.5 1967 46.0 February 2009 459246 85.0 — — 1010 82.5 2686 19.9 March 2009 466,246 90.7 740 94.7 1271 86.2 2673 38.3 April 2009 472,644 92.8 551 97.6 1090 81.3 — — May 2009 445,844 98.4 572 98.1 922 77.5 — —

We are working with the Defence Support Group Working with the Conservation and Fisheries Department on towards a target to pay trade creditors’ invoices within a National Environmental Action Plan. 10 days of receipt. Demos Members: Correspondence Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his when he plans to answer question 273046, on Somali Department has any contracts with the think-tank piracy, tabled on 29 April 2009. [278570] Demos. [279505]

Bill Rammell: My predecessor, the right hon. Member Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office for Coventry, North-East (Mr. Ainsworth) replied on 4 has no current contracts with Demos. June 2009, Official Report, column 627W. Departmental Billing

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the average number British Overseas Territories: of days taken to pay an invoice by (a) his Department and (b) each of its executive agencies was in each month since November 2008. [279525] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether records Chris Bryant: The average number of days taken to of DNA profiles are held on the Overseas Territories pay an invoice in the Foreign and Commonwealth Regional Crime Intelligence System. [279080] Office (FCO) are as follows:

Chris Bryant: There are no records of DNA profiles Days held on the Overseas Territories Regional Criminal Intelligence System. November 2008 11.5 December 2008 11.5 British Overseas Territories: Nature Conservation January 2009 13.2 February 2009 9.5 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for March 2009 8.7 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the April 2009 14.8 answer of 7 May 2009, Official Report, column 357W, May 2009 10.0 on British Overseas Territories: environment protection, what projects were funded from the £65,058 FCO Services is a trading fund that has a separate granted to the British Virgin Islands. [279075] payments system. FCO Services figures for these months are Chris Bryant: The following projects have been funded from the £65,058 granted under the Overseas Territories Days Environment Programme to the British Virgin Islands: November 2008 20 Assisting the Jost Van Dyke Preservation Society to advance December 2008 12 environmental protection and sustainable development; January 2009 9 The publishing and launch of an Environmental CD Atlas and February 2009 8 Teaching Resource for schools; March 2009 10 Improving management of marine protected areas through April 2009 11 assessment of the Marine Conservation Programme; May 2009 13 Construction of a Mangrove Wetland Interpretive Centre; 1017W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1018W

Both the FCO and FCO Services recognise the Post name Consular FTE importance of paying suppliers promptly, and ensure that valid invoices are paid as soon as possible. Asmara 1.1 Departmental Marketing Banjul 1.5 Cairo 10.0 Cape Town 4.0 Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Conakry 0.3 and Commonwealth Affairs how much has been spent Dakar 1.2 by his Department on advertising in weekly and regional Dar Es Salaam 1.9 newspapers in each of the last five years. [277156] Freetown 0.9 Chris Bryant: Consular communications in the Foreign Gaborone 0.9 and Commonwealth Office has advertised in weekly Harare 7.8 and regional newspapers as part of its ongoing travel Kampala 2.1 safety campaign for British nationals between April Khartoum 1.7 2005 and March 2009. Kigali 0.8 These advertorials were placed as part of a targeted Kinshasa 0.4 and multimedia campaign. Where possible the campaign Lagos 14.0 concentrated on editorial coverage; where advertorial Lilongwe 2.2 space was bought it was part of a negotiated package Luanda 0.3 and was usually below the standard cost. Lusaka 2.2 Prior to 2007-08 no funds were spent on advertising Maputo 1.3 in weekly and regional newspapers (in this area). Marrakech 1.0 Nairobi 11.5 Total spend (£) Port Louis 2.3 Pretoria 22.8 2007-08 18,000.00 Rabat 1.3 2008-09 38,300.00 Tangier 1.6 Human resources directorate in the Foreign and Tripoli 1.9 Commonwealth Office advertises in weekly and regional Tunis 3.6 newspapers for recruitment purposes. Victoria 1.6 Windhoek 0.5 Total spend (£) Yaounde 0.4

2006-07 164,960.62 Election Observers 2007-08 73,574.48 2008-09 18,323.85 Note: Mr. Bruce George: To ask the Secretary of State for Figures are not available for the financial year 2005-06. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he plans The large reduction in advertising costs over the to send election observers to the Organisation for Security period for which figures are available is due to a large and Co-operation in Europe’s Office for Democratic increase in the use of internet advertising, together with Institutions and Human Rights election observation a large reduction in the number of recruitment campaigns missions in (a) Bulgaria and (b) Kyrgyzstan. [278796] from 2006-07 to the present financial year. Chris Bryant: We plan to send election observers to Diplomatic Service the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Rights election observation missions in Kyrgyzstan on and Commonwealth Affairs how many consular staff 23 July 2009. his Department employs in each of its embassies in We do not usually send OSCE observers to elections Africa. [279035] in EU countries.

Chris Bryant: The number of full-time equivalent European Court of Justice (FTE) staff carrying out consular activities in Africa is 114. About 80 per cent. of these staff are locally hired, Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign the remainder being diplomatic service officers. The and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate has been following list provides the details by post within Africa. made of the cost to the public purse of changes in Government policy or practice necessitated by judgments Post name Consular FTE made in the European Court of Justice since 2005. Abidjan 0.3 [277112] Abuja 0.8 Accra 5.8 Chris Bryant: Any change to Government policy or Addis Ababa 1.6 practice, resulting from judgments made in the European Agadir 1.0 Courts, would be the responsibility of the Government Alexandria 0.9 Department concerned. No estimate has been made as to the total cost across Government of amending policy Algiers 0.7 or practice due to European Court judgments. 1019W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1020W

North Korea Post name Consular FTE Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Quito 2.0 and Commonwealth Affairs which luxury goods may Rio de Janeiro 3.8 not be exported to North Korea under the terms of Santiago 3.6 United Nations Security Council Resolution 1718 Sao Paulo 2.2 (2006). [278631]

David Miliband: UN Security Council Resolution 1718 decided that all UN Member States shall prevent HEALTH the direct or indirect supply, sale or transfer to the Arthritis: Health Services Democratic People’s Republic of Korea of luxury goods. The Resolution did not specify which items were defined Dr. Stoate: To ask the Secretary of State for Health as luxury goods. Council Regulation 329/2007 defined what steps his Department is taking to provide patients those goods for the purposes of EU implementation. with rheumatoid arthritis with (a) an effective The list is available in Annex III of Council Regulation treatment pathway and (b) an individual care (EC) No. 329/2007. management plan. [278930] Poland: Anti-Semitism Ann Keen: The Department has developed in partnership with a wide group of stakeholders an 18 weeks Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign commissioning pathway for inflammatory arthritis. The and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has pathway describes an ideal treatment pathway meeting received on anti-Semitism in Poland; and if he will all best practice guidance and recommends the use of make a statement. [278236] individual care management plans for patients with this condition. The pathway will be published on 12 June Chris Bryant: Our embassy in Warsaw is in touch 2009 on the 18 week website. The Department has also with non-governmental organisations and relevant Polish made a commitment in “High Quality Care for All”, Government representatives that deal with and monitor the final report of the NHS Next Stage Review that anti-Semitism. A lot of work has been done since 1988 everyone with a long term condition will be offered a to improve understanding and bring about reconciliation. personalised care plan by 2010. The Polish Government have recently highlighted some of their initiatives in their interim report, responding to Burns: Liverpool a 2007 memorandum, to the Council of Europe Commissioner for human rights. This can be found on Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for the Commissioner’s website: Health (1) what assessment he has made of the http://www.coe.int/t/commissioner/News/2009/090420 recommendation put forward by the National Burns PolandReport_en.asp. Network Board for the treatment of (a) adult and (b) The Polish Government are also very supportive of paediatric burns patients in Liverpool; and if he will the Museum of the History of the Polish Jews which is make a statement; [279637] due to open in 2011 and of which President Kaczynski (2) what his latest assessment is of the standards of is patron. care for (a) adult and (b) paediatric burns patients in Liverpool. [279638] South America: Embassies Ann Keen: The Northern Burns Care Network has Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign developed proposals for the future configuration of and Commonwealth Affairs how many consular staff supra-regional burns care adult and paediatric centres, his Department employs in other of its embassies in for the treatment of the most serious and highly complex South America. [279732] patients. This included an extensive process of engagement and involvement of users/carers, clinicians, and overview Chris Bryant: The number of full-time equivalent and scrutiny committee representatives across the North (FTE) staff carrying out consular activities in South West, North East, Yorkshire and Humber and North America is 29.2. About 80 per cent. of these staff are Wales. locally hired, the remainder being diplomatic service The recommendations from these proposals will be officers. The following list provides the details by post considered over the next six weeks by the strategic within South America. health authority assurance review team, a workshop of Overview and Scrutiny Committees, the National Burns Post name Consular FTE Care Group and the National Specialised Commissioning Bogota 4.2 Group. In the light of advice from these fora, local Brasilia 0.7 commissioners will then take decisions about this phase Buenos Aires 3.4 of the response to the National Burn Care Review. Caracas 3.0 For the whole of the northern network, the total Georgetown 0.9 number of very severe burns patients is estimated to be La Paz 0.8 11-22 children and 45-55 adults per annum. Based on Lima 2.9 the recommended configuration being considered for Montevideo 1.6 supra-regional centres, the potential number of such patients requiring transfer from Liverpool hospitals 1021W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1022W would be approximately three children and eight adults guidance for the treatment of common mental health per annum. Any patients treated within these services problems and over the next few years will make cognitive will be transferred back to their local ‘regional burn behavioural therapy (CBT) more widely available than care’ centres once they are well enough to continue their ever before. This is because CBT is one of the key rehabilitation and long-term care. treatments recommended by NICE. The National Burn Care Group has developed clinically- In 2006-07, the programme launched two pilot projects led standards for specialised burn care based on the in Newham and Doncaster, to which it allocated a total National Burn Care Review. Currently, no hospitals in of £3 million. the northern network meet the new burns care standards for Supra-Regional Centres. The new proposals are an In 2007-08, the programme also ran 11 smaller pilots, initial step towards achieving these standards. In addition, to which it allocated a further £2 million. support from the Northern Burn Care Network will In 2008-09, a national roll-out of NICE-compliant continue to be given to upgrade the facilities of Regional psychological therapies began with the creation of services Burn Care Centres across the network and also to in 35 primary care trusts (PCTs) costing a total of £33 strengthen the Regional Centres to enable them to give million. This involves a training programme for 3,600 improved support to patients currently treated for more new therapy workers over three years. Initially, the minor burn injuries in primary care and district general training for this workforce has focused on CBT because hospitals. this is where the biggest shortage lies and it supports the NHS in delivering the NICE treatment guidelines. Fractures This investment is continuing to increase substantially, with a further 80 services coming on stream in the John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health autumn bringing the total to £103 million in 2009-10, whether financial incentives are available to primary and every PCT beginning to establish these new services care trusts to encourage health professionals to identify in 2010 when the investment will rise to £173 million. and treat those at a high risk of fragility fracture. [279624] Mr. Willis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Phil Hope: The forthcoming prevention package for which mental health conditions are treated by cognitive older people will contain guidance to support behavioural therapy available on the NHS; and what commissioners to be more cost effective in commissioning the average waiting time between diagnosis and services for falls and fractures within their existing commencement of a course of treatment was in each budgets in the form of a patient care pathway. It is for primary care trust in the latest period for which figures local primary care trusts to decide how they take forward are available. [279566] work in this area.

John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Phil Hope: The National Institute for Health and what recent progress his Department has made in the Clinical Excellence recommends the national health development of coherent clinical guidance on the service to offer cognitive behavioural therapy as a treatment prevention, diagnosis, treatment and care of falls, for: antenatal and postnatal mental health problems; fragility fractures and osteoporosis. [279633] anti-social personality disorder; anxiety; attention deficit hyperactivity disorder; bipolar disorder; borderline Phil Hope: The Department is committed to work on personality disorder; dementia; depression in adults; falls and fracture prevention. The National Service children and young people; drug misuse; bulimia; obsessive Framework for Older People (2001) (a copy of which compulsive disorder; post-traumatic stress disorder; has already been placed in the Library) already sets out schizophrenia; self-harming; and violence. The actual clear standards and actions for the prevention and use of this treatment is recorded in individual patient treatment of falls. In addition, the National Institute records and not held centrally. No data are held centrally for Health and Clinical Excellence is in the process of on the average waiting time between diagnosis and the reviewing its clinical guideline on the prevention of falls start of treatment. However, one of the central aims of in older people. The new prevention package for older the improving access to psychological therapies programme people will also support improvement in this area through is to ensure that people needing to access these treatments a commissioning pathway for falls. are able to do so more rapidly by providing them in primary and community settings, such as general Mental Health Services practitioner surgeries.

Mr. Willis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr. Willis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much his Department allocated to cognitive what the average waiting time between diagnosis and behavioural therapy treatments in NHS facilities in the commencement of a course of cognitive each of the last three years. [279565] behavioural therapy was for persons diagnosed with schizophrenia in each primary care trust area in the Phil Hope: The Department does not allocate funding latest period for which figures are available. [279567] to specific treatments in national health service facilities and so does not have this information. However, throughout the last three years, the Government have been running Phil Hope: Data about the waiting time between the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies diagnosis and the start of a course of cognitive behavioural programme, which is helping the NHS implement National therapy for people with schizophrenia are not held Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) centrally. 1023W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1024W

NHS: Public Consultation Olympic Games 2012: Hadleigh

Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Olympics for Health what funding his Department has allocated what her most recent estimate is of the cost to the to local involvement networks for each of the next 10 public purse of hosting the Olympic mountain biking years. [279217] event at Hadleigh. [278012]

Ann Keen: The allocations to local authorities with Tessa Jowell: The London Organising Committee of social services responsibilities for the purposes of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) establishing and supporting local involvement networks has responsibility for delivering the mountain bike event (LINks) were announced as part of the local government at Hadleigh Farm, working with Essex county finance settlement for 2008-09. The announcement covered council. Direct costs of staging the event come from the three years from 2008-09 to 2010-11. LOCOG’s revenues which are primarily derived from No Government spending beyond this date has been commercial sponsorship, broadcast rights, ticket sales agreed. and merchandising/licensing—not from the public purse. There will be attributable costs to the public purse, Skin Cancer: Health Education for example in respect of the security and transport functions associated with the venue. However these costs have not yet been identified separately for individual Mr. Bruce George: To ask the Secretary of State for venues, but they will form part of the overall security Health what recent steps he has taken to increase levels and transport budgets. of public awareness of skin cancer. [278798]

Gillian Merron: SunSmart is the national skin cancer and sun protection campaign and is run by Cancer CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Research UK on behalf of the UK Health Departments. The 2009 campaign highlights the rising rate of skin Climate Change cancer, focuses on teenagers and young people, and aims to raise public awareness of the dangers of sunbeds Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for and sunburn. It offers practical information on protecting Culture, Media and Sport what steps his Department the skin in the sun. As well as engaging with the media has taken to adapt to climate change in the last two to promote skin cancer prevention, the SunSmart website years. [277650] www.info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthyliving/sunsmart/ provides information and advice and downloadable Barbara Follett: Operational measures the Department resources on the risks to health of sunbeds and sunburn. for Culture, Media and Sport took to adapt to climate The campaign has also created interventions to reach change included the introduction of a new waste young people through social networking sites. management scheme which ensured that as much is recycled as possible. With the help of the Carbon Trust, the Department worked with manufacturers to pilot an innovative lighting scheme which reduced the energy OLYMPICS used and improved efficiency. The Department also trialled a scheme which is now being rolled out across Government which adjusted the voltage used to the Football: Olympic Games 2012 lowest optimal level. The Department has also replaced new gas boilers with more energy efficient ones, which Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Olympics means that our premises are able to respond more what her most recent estimate is of the cost of hosting effectively to changing weather conditions while ensuring the London 2012 Olympics football events at (a) the safety of staff is maintained. Hampden Park, (b) the Millennium Stadium, (c) Old We are encouraging our non departmental public Trafford, (d) St James’ Park, (e) Villa Park and (f) bodies to introduce similar measures. Wembley Stadium. [278321] Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Tessa Jowell: The London Organising Committee of Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) of his Department’s potential gross (a) costs and (b) has responsibility for staging the Olympic and Paralympic savings arising from its climate change adaptation Games at existing venues. The direct costs associated measures in the next three years. [277727] with staging the events at existing venues come from LOCOG’s revenues which are primarily derived from Barbara Follett: It is not currently possible to provide commercial sponsorship, broadcast rights, ticket sales estimates of the potential costs and savings over the and merchandising/licensing—not from the public purse. next three years. There will be attributable costs to the public purse, The Government are undertaking a climate change for example in respect of the security and transport risk assessment and economic analysis, which will provide functions associated with the venue. However these estimates of the costs and benefits of adaptation to the costs have not yet been identified separately for individual UK. This analysis will be presented to Parliament within venues, but they will form part of the overall security three years of the Climate Change Act coming in to and transport budgets. force. 1025W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1026W

Cultural Heritage asking the chair to recommend to me, within six months, a practical, effective and proportionate plan of action Richard Younger-Ross: To ask the Secretary of State that has the support of those responsible for delivery. for Culture, Media and Sport whether he plans to publish details of the Government’s vision and priorities for the historic environment before the Sports: Drugs Summer Adjournment. [279113] Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Bradshaw: We are aiming to publish the Historic Culture, Media and Sport what legal obligations are Environment Vision Statement in the summer. imposed on the Government by the 2005 UNESCO International Convention on Doping in Sport. [279123] Demos Mr. Sutcliffe [holding answer 11 June 2009]: The Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for UNESCO International Convention against Doping in Culture, Media and Sport whether his Department has Sport (the Convention) provides a legally binding any contracts with the think-tank Demos. [279513] framework for Governments to take a range of measures to tackle doping in sport and apply the principles set Mr. Sutcliffe: The Department does not have any out in the World Anti-Doping Code (the Code). contracts with Demos. In summary this includes, where appropriate—funding Departmental Billing and supporting a national testing programme; supporting education and training on anti-doping; adopting, or Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, encouraging sport and anti-doping organisations to Media and Sport how many and what proportion of adopt, measures to restrict the availability and prevent invoices his Department and its agencies paid within 10 the misuse of prohibited substances and methods in days of receipt in each of the last 12 months; and if he sport; withholding funding from persons suspended for doping violations, or bodies not in compliance with the will make a statement. [278824] Code; encouraging and promoting anti-doping research; Mr. Sutcliffe: The Department’s performance of payment encouraging best practice in the marketing of nutritional of invoices within 10 days of receipt in each month supplements; and encouraging international cooperation since November 2008 is set out in the table. Prior to in the fight against doping. November 2008, there was no requirement to gather The UK primarily complies with its obligations under and maintain data on this basis. To provide this information the Convention by way of administrative action taken would incur disproportionate cost. by UK Sport, the UK’s national anti-doping organisation. The Department’s Agency, The Royal Parks, is not Full details of the Convention can be found at: able to record the information in the format requested http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=31037&URL_ and can provide it only at disproportionate cost. DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

Percentage of invoices paid Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Month within 10 working days Culture, Media and Sport what obligations arise in UK law from the Government’s signature of the 2009 November 2008 43 World Anti-Doping Code. [279124] December 2008 77 January 2009 80 February 2009 87 Mr. Sutcliffe [holding answer 11 June 2009]: The UK March 2009 88 Government are not a signatory to the World Anti-Doping Code (the Code). However, it supports the principles set April 2009 87 out in the Code through its ratification of the UNESCO May 2009 85 International Convention against Doping in Sport (the Convention). This provides a legally binding framework Gambling: Sports for Governments to take a range of measures to tackle doping in sport and apply the principles set out in the Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Code. Culture, Media and Sport (1) when he expects the new The UK primarily complies with its obligations under expert panel on sports betting to produce its first report the Convention by way of administrative action taken on its work; [278937] by UK Sport, the UK’s national anti-doping organisation. (2) what the (a) terms of reference and (b) work UK Sport is responsible for the implementation of the plan of the new expert panel on sports betting will be; national anti-doping testing programme in accordance [278938] with the UK’s anti-doping policy, which is fully compliant (3) who the members of the new expert panel on with the requirements of the Code. UK Sport ensures sports betting will be; [278939] National Governing Bodies of sport comply with the (4) when he expects the new expert panel on sports Code through a policy and administrative approach. betting to be established. [278940] Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Sutcliffe: The expert panel on sports betting will Culture, Media and Sport what the legal basis is for the be established very soon and I will announce the members, testing of professional sportsmen and women for drug terms of reference and work plan at that time. I will be use in the UK is. [279125] 1027W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1028W

Mr. Sutcliffe [holding answer 11 June 2009]: UK Public sector budget Percentage public Sport is designated by Government to deliver the UK’s for 2005 administer sector contribution national anti-doping testing programme in line with its by National Tourist to total budget ‘National Anti-Doping Policy’ and the principles and Country Office/Agency (i.e. rest from processes set out in the World Anti-Doping Code and (alphabetical) (£ million1) private sector) accompanying International Standards. Austria 30.6 64.9 It carries out tests on sportsmen and women on the Czech Republic 4.5 100 basis of their consent, either through a contractual Denmark 18.2 62.3 relationship they may have with their National Federation Finland 17.6 61.1 or as a member, license holder etc. of their National France 33.7 53.6 Federation. In both cases they will consent to abiding Germany 20.6 78.8 by the rules of that sport, which include the anti-doping Greece 80.6 93.7 rules, and to make themselves available for testing. Hungary 11.7 90.3 Ireland 43.7 97.2 Italy 32.9 86.7 Tourism: Balance of Payments Netherlands 18.5 64.3 Norway 18.9 32.2 Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Poland 5.1 89.8 Culture, Media and Sport what the UK’s tourism Spain 63.7 100 balance of payments was for 2008-09; and what Sweden 9.3 70.4 information his Department holds for benchmarking UK 35.5 72.9 purposes on the equivalent figures for (a) France, (b) 1 Figures shown are converted to £ figures at the March 2005 Spain and (c) the US in the same period. [277471] exchange rate. Source: Barbara Follett: [holding answer 1 June 2009]: Provisional UNWTO, Structures and Budgets of National Tourism Organisations, data from the International Passenger Survey estimates 2005. a tourism balance of payments deficit of £20 billion in 2008-09. The Spanish Institute of Tourism Studies have published JUSTICE their 2008-09 tourism balance of payments showing a £24 billion surplus. The French Ministère de l’économie, Prisoners Release de l’industrie et de l’emploi http://www.minefe.gouv.fr/ David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for published a paper “Le tourism en France en 2008” Justice what the average amount received in discharge stating the provisional figures from the Banque de grants by offenders sentenced to two months’ France on the tourism balance of payments surplus is imprisonment was in the latest year for which figures £8.6 billion. are available. [277281] In March 2009 the Bureau of Economic Analysis, part of the US Department of Commerce, Office of Maria Eagle: Prison Service Order (PSO) 6400 Travel and Tourism Industries, published a tourism (Discharge) says that, to be eligible for a discharge balance of payments surplus of £17.9 billion. grant, prisoners must have been given a custodial sentence of more than 14 days. The grant is £46 and is not apportionable. Tourism: Finance The Prison Service has become aware that, following the introduction of the Criminal Justice Act 1991 which required that prisoners serving sentences of one year or Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for less be released at the halfway point of their sentence, Culture, Media and Sport if he will make an estimate PSO 6400 was not sufficiently clear and its original for benchmarking purposes of the level of financial intention has been misinterpreted. A revised Instruction support given to the tourist industry in other EU has been issued to address this, clarifying that a prisoner member states by their governments. [275814] must serve a sentence, of which the custodial period is more than 14 days. Barbara Follett: DCMS does not keep a record the financial support given to the tourist industry in other Prisoners Release: Foreigners EU member states by their Governments. However in 2005 the UN World Tourism Organisation Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for (UNWTO) published the following figures in their report Justice how many foreign national prisoners were ‘Structures and Budgets of National TourismOrganisations, released from prisons in each of the last 10 years. 2004/05’. These figures only reflect central government [278427] funding for marketing inbound tourism, and do not include regional or local government spend on marketing. Maria Eagle: The following table shows the number These figures have been converted into sterling from of discharges of adult and young adult foreign national dollars at the March 2005 exchange rate. prisoners from completed determinate sentences between The UNWTO have confirmed they plan to publish 1999 and 2007. Data have been rounded to the nearest updated figures in the autumn for the period 2006-08. 100. 1029W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1030W

You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how Number of FNP discharges much the Child Support Agency spent on hospitality and 1999 4,300 entertainment in each of the last five years. [276364] 2000 4,400 The information you requested is provided in the table below. 2001 4,700 Financial year Amount (£) 2002 5,200 2003 6,200 2004-05 2,393 2004 7,100 2005-06 2,462 2005 7,400 2006-07 4,726 2006 7,700 2007-08 2,732 2007 8,100 2008-091 5,392 1 Figures for 2008/09 have not yet been audited by the National Audit Improved data quality in the last year means that Office and are therefore subject to change. these data differ from previously released information. All expenditure on entertainment, also known as hospitality, is Data on all discharges will be published in the summer made in accordance with guidance on financial procedures and in Offender Management Caseload Statistics 2008. Data propriety, based on principles set out in Managing Public Money for 1997 and 1998 are not available. and the Treasury Handbook on Regularity and Propriety. These figures have been drawn from administrative I hope you find this answer helpful. IT systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing. Children: Maintenance

Sentencing: Crimes of Violence Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in which months since 1993 the Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice number of cases on which decisions on maintenance what assessment he has made of the merits of fixed-term have been made by the Child Support Agency and its sentences for serious violent offences. [278925] successor have been exceeded by the number of case applications received; and what the figures in each Claire Ward: There has been no recent consideration category were in each such month. [278259] of the merits of fixed-term sentences for serious violent offences. No two cases are the same and the Government Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 8 June 2009): The believe that the courts should be able to take into Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is account all the circumstances in each case to determine responsible for the child maintenance system. I have the appropriate sentence. The Government have provided therefore asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner the courts with more options for dealing with serious to write to the hon. Member with the information violent offences, including indeterminate sentences where requested. appropriate: the Criminal Justice Act 2003 introduced a Letter from Stephen Geraghty: new sentence of imprisonment for public protection for In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the dangerous offenders. Under this sentence, the court sets Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive the minimum tariff to be served by the offender and reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child release is determined by the Parole Board on the basis Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance of the risk presented to the community. The Government and Enforcement Commission. believe that this sentence offers the best protection to You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, in the public from the most dangerous violent, and sexual, which months since 1993 the number of cases on which decisions offenders. on maintenance have been made by the Child Support Agency and its successor have been exceeded by the number of case applications received; and what the figures in each category were in each such month. [278259] WORK AND PENSIONS The information you have requested is only available for the Child Support Agency: Official Hospitality current statutory scheme from April 2003, and it is set out in the following table. Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Applications received exceeded clearances each month until and Pensions how much the Child Support Agency March 2005 onwards when clearances exceeded applications received spent on hospitality and entertainment in each of the except in September 2005, October 2005, January 2006, February 2006, March 2006, and January 2008. last five years. [276364] The Agency has exceeded the expectations of the three year Jonathan Shaw: The Child Maintenance and Operational Improvement Plan with just 49,200 uncleared current Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child scheme applications at the end of March 2009 down from 225,600 maintenance system. I have therefore asked the Child in March 2005. This is the lowest number of current scheme Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member applications outstanding since May 2003, two months after the scheme was launched. with the information requested. Table 2.1 of the March 2009 Child Support Agency Quarterly Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Summary of Statistics (QSS) gives information on the number of In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the current scheme cases received and cleared by the Agency. The Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive QSS is available in the House of Commons library or online at: reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance http://www.childmaintenance.org/publications/statistics.html and Enforcement Commission. I hope you find this answer helpful. 1031W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1032W

Applications Applications Month received Applications cleared Month received Applications cleared

March 2003 11,100 1,400 April 2008 24,500 28,000 April 2003 16,600 2,800 May 2008 22,600 26,400 May 2003 20,900 3,600 June 2008 24,100 30,300 June 2003 23,100 7,900 July 2008 26,200 31,900 July 2003 26,800 10,500 August 2008 16,500 20,900 August2003 21,700 10,800 September 2008 11,900 15,600 September 2003 25,000 16,100 October 2008 7,800 19,800 October 2003 31,100 18,300 November 2008 7,300 11,600 November 2003 26,300 16,300 December 2008 5,300 9,700 December 2003 18,500 14,100 January 2009 8,100 9,200 January 2004 25,800 16,200 February 2009 7,900 9,000 February 2004 23,800 16,200 March 2009 7,700 10,300 March 2004 30,100 18,800 Notes: April 2004 28,400 26,000 1. Only includes current scheme cases. Data only available from March 2003. May 2004 30,000 18,300 2. Cleared applications are those that have had a maintenance June 2004 26,900 17,700 calculation carried out and a payment arrangement between the July 2004 23,900 16,700 parent with care and non-resident parent put in place; a August 2004 26,400 16,000 maintenance calculation carried out and nil liability established; a parent with care has been identified as claiming good cause or is September 2004 25,400 18,000 subject to a reduced benefit decision; the application is identified as October 2004 24,900 18,000 being a change of circumstance on an existing case; or the November 2004 25,000 19,200 application has been closed. December 2004 18,900 13,800 3. Figures have been rounded to the nearest 100. January 2005 23,200 20,400 Drugs: Rehabilitation February 2005 25,000 22,700 March 2005 25,300 26,800 Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work April 2005 24,500 25,200 and Pensions how many drug treatment places will be May 2005 25,100 27,400 provided to support the planned introduction of a June 2005 24,800 26,100 treatment allowance. [275547] July 2005 25,400 26,600 August 2005 23,100 25,500 Jonathan Shaw: The provision of drug treatment September 2005 24,900 24,500 places to support the drugs pilots will be met from October 2005 27,500 25,200 within existing allocations. November 2005 29,900 32,800 December 2005 23,400 27,100 Jobcentre Plus: Greater London January 2006 30,000 28,800 February 2006 34,500 29,900 Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for March 2006 34,700 34,000 Work and Pensions how many (a) benefit delivery April 2006 24,700 29,400 centres and (b) customer-facing jobcentres were operated May 2006 24,600 26,600 by Jobcentre Plus in each London borough in each of June 2006 25,600 28,800 the last 24 months. [276544] July 2006 23,400 30,900 August 2006 24,600 26,500 Mr. McNulty [holding answer 20 May 2009]: The September 2006 23,100 25,900 administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the October 2006 20,000 29,300 chief executive, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the right hon. Member with the information requested. November 2006 22,200 23,700 December 2006 16,400 20,000 Letter from Mel Groves; January 2007 24,600 27,200 The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question asking how many (a) benefit delivery centres and (b) customer-facing February 2007 33,600 48,100 jobcentres were operated by Jobcentre Plus in each London March 2007 27,400 40,200 borough in each of the last 24 months. This is something that falls April 2007 22,300 28,600 within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive May 2007 24,900 31,500 of Jobcentre Plus. June 2007 26,100 31,000 I have attached a table which gives a breakdown of current July 2007 24,700 30,700 Jobcentres and Benefit Delivery Centres in each London Borough. August 2007 26,800 29,200 With regard to the past 24 months, no offices closed in 2007 or 2008 but three closed during 2009, those at Orpington, Brixton September 2007 25,200 26,900 Hill and Feltham. October 2007 27,300 29,000 London Jobcentre Plus office network by London boroughs November 2007 27,000 29,800 Benefit delivery December 2007 18,100 20,400 London borough Jobcentres centres January 2008 28,200 27,900 February 2008 27,000 30,600 Barking and 2— Dagenham March 2008 21,700 27,000 1033W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1034W

London Jobcentre Plus office network by London boroughs Everyone making a claim for Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) has Benefit delivery a one-to-one interview with a personal adviser to assess their London borough Jobcentres centres circumstances, discuss and set in place a Jobseeker’s Agreement and make sure they have information about and access to the help Barnet 4 — they need. The average length of this interview is 40 minutes, but Bexley 1 — the actual time taken will vary depending upon individual customer Brent 4 — needs. Bromley 2 — Following the new jobseeker interview, customers are usually Camden 1 — required to attend face-to-face fortnightly jobsearch reviews, the purpose of which is to make sure they are actively seeking work Croydon 3 — (and therefore entitled to JSA) and to see what help, if any, they Ealing 2 — need. The average time allocation for these contacts is 7.5 minutes, Enfield 3 — but the actual time taken will vary depending upon customer Greenwich 2 — needs. Following the new jobseeker interview, many people find Hackney 3 1 work very quickly (about 60% by 13 weeks) and need little, if any, Hammersmith & 4—additional help, so jobsearch reviews will involve a limited discussion Fulham to make sure people are actively seeking work and making best use of appropriate vacancy sources. Other customers will need Haringey 2 — more support in which case jobsearch reviews will take longer. Harrow 2 — For those people who do not find work quickly, a review is Havering 2 — undertaken at or around 13 weeks. The average length of this Hillingdon 2 — review is 20 minutes, but the method of delivery and duration of Hounslow 2 — contact will vary, depending upon individual needs. The process Islington 3 — usually involves a one to one discussion with an adviser, particularly Kensington & 1—where the Jobseeker’s Agreement needs revising and the customer Chelsea needs more help to agree how best to increase their chances of finding work, but group sessions may also be used to give general Kingston 1 — information about access to jobs and services to help improve job Lambeth 5 — prospects. Following the 13-week review process, people continue Lewisham 3 — to receive regular jobsearch reviews, but for a period of six weeks, Merton 1 — these are on a weekly (rather than fortnightly) basis. Newham 4 1 As part of the recently announced six-month offer, all customers Redbridge 1 1 reaching six months unemployment are now allocated a personal Richmond 1 — adviser who will see them regularly to help prepare and follow through an action plan, which will offer the best chance of Southwark 4 — leading to a job. The amount of adviser time allocated for the Sutton 1 — initial interview is 50 minutes, though the time actually taken will Tower Hamlets 2 — vary depending upon individual circumstances and what is decided Waltham Forest 2 — and agreed will happen next. Following the initial interview, Wandsworth 1 1 advisers have an average of three hours contact time for each Westminster 2 — customer, which is used flexibly by advisers to suit individual customer circumstances and needs. Total 73 4 Jobcentre Plus: Interviews Jobcentre Plus: Redundancy Pay

Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how long on average a jobseeker’s and Pensions how much Jobcentre Plus has spent on interview with a personal adviser (a) for initial redundancy payments in each year since it was assessment, (b) to make a jobseeker’s agreement, (c) established; and what proportion of staff costs such to sign on and (d) for other purposes lasted in the expenditure represents in each year. [269046] latest period for which figures are available. [271623] Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus, matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the right hon. Member with the information requested. Member with the information requested. Letter from Mel Groves: Letter from Mel Groves: The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has asked me to The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question respond to your questions asking how much Jobcentre Plus has asking how long on average a jobseeker’s interview with a personal spent on redundancy payments in each year since it was established adviser (a) for initial assessment (b) to make a jobseeker’s agreement and what proportion of staff costs such expenditure represents in (c) to sign on and (d) for other purposes lasts. This is something each year. This something which falls within the responsibilities which falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive. Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. The information requested is shown in the following table:

2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08

Redundancy costs (£ million) 1.9 2.6 14.5 123.8 44.0 72.7 Proportion of staff costs 0.1 0.2 0.8 6.6 2.4 4.1 (percentage) Source: Jobcentre Plus annual accounts and departmental financial systems. 1035W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1036W

Jobcentre Plus: Standards years and (ii) in each year since 1997; and what the average waiting time for a call to be answered was in Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work each such period; [271684] and Pensions how Jobcentre Plus performed against its (2) how many calls received by the Jobcentre Plus (a) job outcome target, (b) monetary value of fraud virtual telephony platform were (a) answered and (b) and error target, (c) employer outcome target, (d) not answered in each (i) month and (ii) year since the customer service target, (e) business delivery target platform became operational; and what the average and (f) average actual clearance time target in each waiting time for a call to be answered was in each such month since each target was introduced. [252980] period. [271685]

Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, matter for the Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked the Acting Chief Executive Member with the information requested. to provide the right hon. Member with the information Letter from Mel Groves: requested. The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question Letter from Mel Groves: how Jobcentre Plus performed against its (a) job outcome target, (b) monetary value of fraud and error target, (c) employer outcome The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your questions target, (d) customer service target, (e) business delivery target and asking how many calls received by the Jobcentre Plus contact (f) average actual clearance time target in each month since each centre were (a) answered and (b) not answered (i) in each month target was introduced. This is something that falls within the of the last two years and (ii) in each year since 1997; and what the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of average waiting time for a call to be answered was in each such Jobcentre Plus. period, and how many calls received by the Jobcentre Plus virtual telephony platform were (a) answered and (b) not answered; and The Business Delivery Target is no longer a Jobcentre Plus what the average waiting time for a call to be answered was in target. The available information has been placed in the Library. each such period in each (i) month and (ii) year since the platform Jobcentre Plus: Telephone Services became operational. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The tables below provide information on the total number of and Pensions (1) how many calls received by the calls offered to Jobcentre Plus contact centres and the numbers Jobcentre Plus contact centre were (a) answered and answered and unanswered with average speed of answer where (b) not answered (i) in each month of the last two available.

Monthly totals in each of the last two years Calls offered Calls answered Calls not answered Average speed of answer

April 2007 1,270,097 1,193,589 76,508 — May 2007 1,494,634 1,433,620 61,014 — June 2007 1,385,229 1,303,400 81,829 — July 2007 1,503,454 1,367,340 136,114 — August 2007 1,810,741 1,662,161 148,580 — September 2007 1,468,596 1,370,874 97,722 — October 2007 1,370,292 1,306,836 63,456 — December 2007 855,633 802,032 53,601 — January 2008 1,998,319 1,872,925 125,394 — February 2008 1,450,419 1,383,025 67,394 — March 2008 1,357,724 1,125,320 232,404 — April2008 1,373,527 1,258,862 114,665 — May 2008 1,599,042 1,482,936 116,106 — June 2008 1,558,995 1,195,905 363,090 — July 2008 1,881,447 1,622,186 259,261 00:01:30 August 2008 1,392,754 1,304,201 88,553 00:01:17 September 2008 1,514,106 1,360,135 153,971 00:01:45 October 2008 1,933,292 1,729,172 204,120 00:01:40 November 2008 1,732,641 1,404,725 327,916 00:02:52 December 2008 940,345 845,350 94,995 00:01:58 January 2009 2,301,754 2,068,444. 233,310 00:01:46 February 2009 1,768,980 1,603,397 165,583 00:01:32 March 2009 1,641,803 1,550,319 91,484 00:01:17 Note: Data on average speed of answer is only available since July 2008, following the introduction of virtual telephony platform which enabled this information to be recorded. Annual totals from 2004 Calls offered Calls answered Calls not answered

2004-05 14,910,760 12,108,721 2,802,039 2005-06 18,257,052 15,956,298 2,300,754 1037W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1038W

Annual totals from 2004 Calls offered Calls answered Calls not answered

2006-07 18,848,944 17,954,117 894,827 2007-08 17,587,392 16,341,493 1,245,899 2008-09 19,638,686 17,425,632 2,213,054 Note: Data is only available since the creation of Jobcentre Plus Contact Centre Directorate in 2004. Monthly totals since virtual telephony platform complete July 2008 Calls offered Calls answered Calls not answered Average speed of answer

July 2008 1,881,447 1,622,186 259,261 00:01:30 August 2008 1,392,754 1,304,201 88,553 00:01:17 September 2008 1,514,106 1,360,135 153,971 00:01:45 October 2008 1,933,292 1,729,172 204,120 00:01:40 November 2008 1,732,641 1,404,725 327,916 00:02:52 December 2008 940,345 845,350 94,995 00:01:58 January 2009 2,301,754 2,068,444 233,310 00:01:46 February 2009 1,768,980 1,603,397 165,583 00:01:32 March 2009 1,641,803 1,550,319 91,484 00:01:17

Jobcentre Plus: Vacancies not available. Information on the number of full-time and part-time vacancies notified with Jobcentre Plus is Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for available from April 2004 and has been placed in the Work and Pensions how many (a) full-time, (b) Library. part-time, (c) permanent and (d) temporary vacancies Information on the number of vacancies registered were (i) registered by employers with Jobcentre Plus with Jobcentre Plus and subsequently filled in each and (ii) subsequently filled in each (A) region and (B) region and Jobcentre Plus district in each year since Jobcentre Plus district in (1) in each year since 2002 2002 and each of the last 24 months is not available. and (2) each of the last 24 months. [264265] Jobseeker’s Allowance Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many (a) part-time and (b) Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and full-time job vacancies for (i) temporary and (ii) Pensions what the percentage change in the number of permanent positions were advertised through Jobcentre people claiming jobseeker’s allowance in (a) Plus in (A) each year since 1997 and (B) each month in Wellingborough constituency and (b) the UK was in the last two years. [271693] the last 12 months. [273798]

Jim Knight: Information on the number of permanent Mr. McNulty: The latest information available is and temporary vacancies notified to Jobcentre Plus is shown in the following table.

Percentage change for jobseeker’s allowance claimants: Wellingborough parliamentary constituency and the UK, March 2008 and March 2009 Wellingborough parliamentary constituency United Kingdom

March 2008 (number) 1,447 842,827 March 2009 (number) 3,239 1,523,482

Percentage change in year 123.8 80.8 Notes: 1. Percentage change is calculated between March 2008 and March 2009. 2: The claimant count data are published at https://www.nomisweb.co.uk 3. Figures include clerically held cases. Source: 100 per cent. count of claimants of unemployment-related benefits, Jobcentre Plus Computer Systems

New Deal Schemes People or Employment Zones as a result of (a) capacity and (b) budgetary constraints. [271720]

Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jim Knight: The information requested is not available and Pensions (1) how many people over 25 years old as it is not collected on Department for Work and have not been referred to the New Deal 25 plus or Pensions’ databases. Employment Zones upon reaching 18 months as a However, Jobcentre Plus performance in delivering claimant as a result of (a) capacity and (b) budgetary New Deal and Employment Zone referral interviews is constraints; [271692] measured as part of an Interventions Delivery Target. (2) how many people aged 18 to 24 years old upon The latest performance figures (up to November 2008) reaching six months of a Jobseeker’s Allowance claim show that 91.8 per cent. checked, JSA-related adviser have not been referred to the New Deal for Young interviews, which include the initial New Deal/Employment 1039W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1040W

Zone referral interview, were undertaken within the Mr. McNulty [holding answer 15 May 2009]: The required timescale. This is against a target of 90 per UK Government have made a commitment to develop cent. Therefore there is no reason to believe customers and deliver a fully Integrated Employment and Skills are not being referred to New Deal and Employment (IES) system in England by 2010-11. This new integrated Zones at the appropriate time. service will bring together and reform existing employment and skills services to better help jobseekers get the right Social Security Benefits balance of job search and training to help them into sustained employment and to progress in their career Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and, in particular, to help those with basic and employability and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 5 May 2009, skills to engage with the labour market and get, keep Official Report, columns 62-63W, on social security and progress in a job. benefits, when she plans to place the information on Under the auspices of this service: benefit rates in the Library; and for what reason the Claimants will receive personalised support from a Jobcentre information has not yet been placed there. [275663] Plus adviser who will work with customers to identify the steps appropriate to enable a swift return to work, including referral to Jonathan Shaw: It was intended that the information careers advice or skills training where appropriate. on benefit rates would be deposited in the Library on 5 Jobcentre Plus Personal Advisers are able to agree early access May 2009 but in fact it was not deposited until a week to the job search and training support offered by the New Deal later, on 12 May 2009. The delay was due to an for people whose circumstances may make it particularly hard to administrative oversight, for which I apologise. find work. The introduction of the Flexible New Deal will establish a new, individually-tailored approach for all job seekers, whatever Social Security Benefits: Fraud their age, skills or barriers to work. The Employability Skills Programme (ESP) enables people in England to train full-time from day one of a jobseeker’s allowance Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work (JSA) claim where there are both basic and employability skills needs. and Pensions what the budget for her Department’s Local Employment Partnerships (LEPs) ensure that disadvantaged ‘We’re closing in’ campaign is; and how much her customers get the preparation and training that enables them to Department has spent on the element of the campaign meet employers’ needs with the expectation that, in return, employers conducted in Alicante. [277048] with vacancies give them a fair shot at getting a job. We are working jointly with the Department for Jim Knight: In 2008-09, expenditure for the ‘We’re Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Learning Closing In’ campaign was £5.8 million. Out of this and Skills Council to ensure that when people move amount, we spent £46,000 on communications in Spain into work they continue learning through apprenticeships which were designed to raise awareness of the new or Train to Gain. This will enable them to remain in hotline in Alicante. work and continue to progress. Social Security Benefits: Personal Records In addition, in response to the current economic downturn, the Government have announced that: Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Funding of £158 million has been made available through the and Pensions for how long her Department retains European Social Fund for the Learning and Skills Council’s Train to Gain programme for people who are newly unemployed records of claimants who have ceased claiming each or facing redundancy to undertake training linked to opportunities benefit; and on how many occasions a local authority in the local labour market. has requested information on a benefit claimant for From April 2009 LEPs have been made available to all claimants which his Department no longer holds records since from day one of unemployment. 1997. [275110] On 6 April we launched a significant package of help for jobseekers, including those with lower level skills, who find themselves Jim Knight: The Department has a comprehensive out of work for six months or more. This support includes, document and data retention policy that is detailed in amongst other things, access to 75,000 new work-focused training the Benefits Document and Data Retention Guide (Benefits opportunities to help customers significantly increase their skills DDRG). A copy of the Benefits DDRG has been in order to enter work. The training, delivered on a part-time or placed in the Library. full-time basis, will support people in progressing towards a full qualification. In general, documents are retained for 14 months We have removed barriers to full-time training making it easier from the date a claim ceases. There are exceptions to for long-term unemployed people to get access to new skills in this across all benefits, details of which can be found in order to compete for the local jobs on offer. The Government the DDRG. One specific exception is where there is a have put the funding arrangements in place to enable jobseekers housing benefit or council tax benefit interest, in which at the six-month point in their claim to move to a training case records will be kept for six years. allowance in order to benefit from full-time intensive training of up to eight weeks, designed to meet employers’ needs. Information on how many occasions a local authority has requested information on a benefit claimant for The Budget 2009 announced a guaranteed offer of a job, work-focused training, or meaningful activity to all 18 to 24-year-olds which the Department no longer holds records since as they approach the 12-month stage of their claim to jobseekers 1997 is not available. allowance (JSA). Unemployment Vocational Training

Mr. Djanogly: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions what steps are being taken to reduce Work and Pensions what recent steps his Department unemployment levels amongst low-skilled people. has taken to assist unemployed people aged over 55 [275880] into work. [272485] 1041W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1042W

Jim Knight: The Government already provide back- problem drug users in the Welfare Reform Bill. Substance- to-work support for those wishing to re-enter the labour related assessments will be carried out locally by drug market, including those aged 50 and over, through treatment specialists. Jobcentre Plus, local employer partnerships, the new deal and pathways to work. We intend to extend this as Welfare to Work: Standards detailed in the Welfare Reform Bill. However, in response to the current economic downturn Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the Government have already committed £0.5 billion of and Pensions if she will publish the results of the gap additional support to help prevent people out of work analysis in welfare-to-work provision undertaken by from becoming long-term unemployed. her Department. [271691] We have doubled the resources available to the Rapid Response Service. The service offers support across the Jim Knight: We have expanded significantly the support country for those people facing redundancy with immediate available to unemployed people. As part of putting that help and advice, including skills assessments and retraining, provision in place Jobcentre Plus reviewed any current to ensure that people get back to work as soon as or anticipated supplier issues. possible. That snapshot covered information that must be treated Since April, financial incentives of up to £2,500 have ‘Commercial in Confidence’ and was the basis for detailed been available to employers that recruit and train people discussions with contractors to ensure that effective who have been unemployed for six months or longer. provision is in place. We have also introduced extra funding for training Written Questions: Government Responses places to help unemployed people learn new skills to maximise their chances of getting jobs from the 455,000 Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for unfilled vacancies in the three months to April 2009. In Work and Pensions when he plans to answer question addition there are opportunities to volunteer, to help 274723, tabled on 12 May 2009, on child maintenance. people back into work habits, and help to start a [278037] business, with advice on creating a business plan plus funding for the first months of trading. Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 4 June 2009]: I replied A major factor in the employment of older people is to the hon. Member’s question on 3 June 2009, Official employer behaviour. In addition to providing generic Report, column 537W. good practice guidance to employers, the UK’s Age Positive initiative is working in partnership with business leaders to develop sector-based models of flexible retirement TREASURY to support the increased employment and retention of Banks: Iceland older workers and the removal of fixed retirement ages. Our plans for the future include providing guidance Bill Wiggin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to older workers on their options for working longer, what assessment he has made of the impact on encouraging employers to increase flexible work and UK-Icelandic relations of the use of powers under the phased retirement opportunities, a review of the Default Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 to freeze Retirement Age in 2011—if it is found to be no longer assets of Icelandic banks; and if he will make a needed it will be removed, and monitoring the impact statement. [276936] of the economic downturn to identify which groups are being most affected and targeting further help where it Chris Bryant: I have been asked to reply. is most needed. We believe that it was right to take urgent action, using the statutory means available, to protect financial Welfare Reform Bill stability in the UK following the Icelandic banking collapse. It is very welcome therefore that agreement was reached on 5 June 2009 between the governments Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of Iceland, the Netherlands and the UK on the terms of and Pensions how much is planned to be spent on drug bilateral loans that protect UK interests and are affordable treatment centres for rehabilitation provision arising for Iceland. This is a good agreement for all parties and under the provisions of the Welfare Reform Bill. opens the way to lift the Landsbanki freezing order. [275405] Individual Savings Accounts

Jim Knight: The investment in drug treatment to Mr. Todd: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if support the drugs pilots will be met from within existing he will take steps to establish enforceable limits on the allocations. time taken to transfer cash ISAs between providers. [279048] Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether medical professionals will be Ian Pearson: HM Revenue and Customs rules allow employed by Jobcentre Plus to deal with claimants with the existing ISA manager a maximum of 30 days to drug-related problems following the implementation of respond to the new manager’s request and complete the the provision of the Welfare Reform Bill. [275423] transfer. HMRC published the results of a cross-industry working group on ISA transfers in their ISA bulletin of Jim Knight [holding answer 14 May 2009]: Medical 26 August 2008, including guidelines to speed up the professionals will not be employed by Jobcentre Plus as transfer of cash ISAs between providers and to improve part of the implementation of the new pilot regime for the efficiency of the process. 1043W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1044W

Members: Correspondence Secretary of State’s Directions and Guidance to the CAA on the exercise of its statutory duties and Sir Michael Spicer: To ask the Chancellor of the environmental objectives. Detailed information is available Exchequer when he plans to reply to the letter from the on the CAA’s website at: hon. Member for West Worcestershire, dated 28 April www.caa.co.uk 2009, on fuel tax PO Ref: 1/71584/2009. [279439] As part of NATS’ on-going development of proposed changes to the area of airspace known as terminal Kitty Ussher: I have replied to the hon. Member. control north, they are considering the location of, and procedures for arrivals routes and holds for Luton, Stansted and London City airports. Further details are TRANSPORT available at: http://www.nats.co.uk/article/216/259/latest_update_on_tcn_ A47: Cambridgeshire consultation.html

Mr. Moss: To ask the Minster of State, Department No airspace change proposal has been submitted to the for Transport how many (a) fatal and (b) non-fatal CAA. accidents there were on the A47 between Guyhirn and the Thorney bypass in each of the last 10 years. Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Minister of State, [278710] Department for Transport (1) what recent progress has been made in the development of a universal consumer Chris Mole: The following table provides the number protection scheme for air travellers; and if he will make of (a) fatal and (b) non-fatal accidents on the A47 a statement; [279527] between Guyhirn and the Thorney Bypass from 1999 to 2008. (2) what recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of provisions for the protection of Number of non-fatal passengers affected by the sudden financial collapse of Number of fatal accidents accidents an airline; [279528]

1999 2 17 (3) with reference to the answer of 21 October 2008, 2000 1 25 Official Report, column 289W, on the XL Leisure Group, what steps have been taken to improve the 2001 2 23 experience of passengers in future airline or tour 2002 1 32 operator failures. [279572] 2003 0 24 2004 1 32 2005 2 21 Paul Clark: The Air Travel Organisers Licence (ATOL) 2006 0 31 scheme organised by the Civil Aviation Authority fully 2007 1 27 protects passengers on package holidays if their airline, 20081 020or other travel company, become insolvent. 1 Data not yet validated by Department for Transport. Passengers not on package holidays have two main Aviation options by which they can help protect themselves against airline insolvency if they so choose: Mr. Yeo: To ask the Minister of State, Department (i) purchasing tickets by credit card, which in most cases will for Transport (1) what recent discussions his provide at least refund of any ticket that cannot be used; Department has had with the National Air Traffic (ii) purchasing insurance against airline failure (available free- Service on the merits of stacking flights over the sea; standing product or as part of some travel insurance policies). [278264] The Department for Transport recognises the complexity (2) what recent discussions (a) he and (b) officials for consumers of airline insolvency protection arrangements. of his Department have had with the Civil Aviation To help address this, we have placed guidance for holiday Authority on the feasibility of stacking flights landing makers about the options available on the Directgov at UK airports over the sea. [278287] website Paul Clark: Airspace planning and regulation is the www.direct.gov.uk/holidayprotection responsibility of the independent regulator, the Civil This guidance was prepared in conjunction with the air Aviation Authority (CAA). The process for making transport industry and the Civil Aviation Authority. It changes to airspace is governed by the CAA’s airspace is supplemented with an information campaign which change process. Under this process it is for airspace has generated press articles. change sponsors, mostly NATS, other air navigation The Department is now considering options for the services providers and airports, to develop and consult reform of ATOL with a view to providing greater upon proposals. Detailed guidance is given on what protection and clarity to consumers about what holidays impacts are to be taken into account, advice on methods are or are not covered by the scheme. A consultation is to assess the relative impact of changes and who should planned for later in 2009. be consulted. Informed by the consultation, the airspace change sponsor submits the proposal to the CAA’s The Government have no plans to provide statutory directorate of airspace policy for assessment against financial protection for all flights. They carefully considered regulatory requirements. In determining whether to accept an option to this effect in 2005, but rejected it as being or reject a proposal, the CAA’s process reflects the disproportionate to the risks faced by consumers. 1045W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1046W

Bus Services Table A: Local bus vehicle kilometres: England, 1997-98 to 2007-08 Kilometres (million)

1997-98 2,142 Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, 1998-99 2,165 Department for Transport (1) how many route miles of 1999-2000 2,183 bus service were provided in England in each year since 2000-01 2,158 1997; [278629] 2001-02 2,129 2002-03 2,122 (2) what estimate he has made of the (a) average 2003-04 2,109 cost to a passenger of a single bus journey and (b) average length of a bus journey in miles in each year 2004-05 2,109 2005-06 2,096 since 1997. [278630] 2006-07 2,190 2007-08 2,286 Source: Mr. Khan: Information on bus route mileage would Table C, Public Transport Statistics Bulletin GB: 2008 edition be available only at disproportionate cost. Estimates of The information on the average cost to a passenger of vehicle kilometres operated on local bus services for the a single bus journey is not available, but estimates of the years requested are available in Table A. annual change in bus fares are shown in Table B.

Table B: Local bus fares index: England, 1997-98 to 2007-08 Local bus fares index at constant prices1 Local bus fares index at current prices Year on year change Year on year change Index (1995 = 100) (percentage) Index (1995 = 100) (percentage)

1997-98 104.7 111.5 1998-99 106.0 1.2 116.4 4.4 1999-2000 108.8 2.7 121.4 4.3 2000-01 109.4 0.6 125.8 3.6 2001-02 111.7 2.2 130.3 3.6 2002-03 112.8 0.9 134.3 3.1 2003-04 113.9 1.0 139.4 3.8 2004-05 116.6 2.4 147.2 5.6 2005-06 123.0 5.5 159.4 8.3 2006-07 119.1 -3.2 160.1 0.4 2007-08 120.8 1.4 169.1 5.6 1 Adjusted for general inflation using the Retail Prices Index based on values as at 1 January. Source: Table G, Public Transport Statistics Bulletin GB

During the period covered by Table B, the introduction The sample size for the National Travel Survey was of the statutory concessionary travel scheme has meant nearly trebled from 2002 compared with previous years that many passengers now travel for free on local buses. enabling results to be presented on a single year basis. Information on the average length of bus stage can be Previously data were shown for three-year time periods found in Table C. because of the smaller sample size. Table C: Average bus stage length: England, 1996-98 to 2006 Departmental Billing Miles Mr. Prisk: To ask the Minister of State, Department 1996-98 3.5 for Transport how many and what proportion of 1997-99 3.6 invoices his Department and its agencies paid within 10 1998-1000 3.7 days of receipt in each of the last 12 months; and if he 1999-01 3.8 will make a statement. [278825] 2002 3.9 2003 3.9 Chris Mole: Information on the proportion of invoices 2004 3.7 paid within 10 days of receipt for the Department for 2005 3.9 Transport and it’s agencies (save for data for the Vehicle 2006 4.0 and Certification Agency) is only available from January Source: 2009 National Travel Survey The figures from January 2009 are set out in the table:

Department/agency January 2009 February 2009 March 2009 April 2009 May 2009

DFT Central Department 36.88 43.13 51.86 64.85 74.58 Driving Standards Agency 35.91 49.64 55.60 67.24 67.67 Driver and Vehicle Licensing 31.57 31.06 28.55 75.15 81.41 Agency 1047W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1048W

Department/agency January 2009 February 2009 March 2009 April 2009 May 2009

Highways Agency 75.16 79.75 73.18 26.15 79.73 Maritime and Coastguard 92.53 93.80 95.23 94.60 92.69 Agency Vehicle Certification Agency 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— Vehicle and Operator Services 80.20 86.98 87.71 91.82 92.61 Agency Government Car and 43.01 32.13 52.75 29.74 59.20 Despatch Agency Average 61.19 65.42 67.06 56.88 80.32 1 No data Note: Figures exclude VCA data.

Departmental Data Protection Number

James Brokenshire: To ask the Minster of State, 2008-09 1,208 Department for Transport how many notifications his 2007-08 1,101 Department made to the Information Commissioner in 2006-07 959 the year ended 30 April 2009 in respect of the loss or 2005-06 667 mishandling of personal information or data; what was 2004-05 812 notified in each such case; and how many individuals 2003-04 1,028 were the subjects of personal information or data in 2002-03 684 respect of which such notifications were made. [278749] 2001-02 553 Data for years prior to 2001 are not available. Complaints Chris Mole: Under the mandatory requirements of received by the Department for Transport are forwarded the Data Handling Report published on 25 June 2008, to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and these the Department for Transport is required to give a are included in the above figures. These volumes are not summary report on data breaches reported to the stored. Information Commissioner in our annual resource accounts. The Department for Transport has reported on personal Driving: Working Hours data breaches in the 2007-2008 annual resource account and this can be found at: Alistair Burt: To ask the Minister of State, http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/publications/ei/secresaccs/ Department for Transport what discussions he has had resourceaccounts0708.pdf. at EU level on proposals to extend the application of We will be publishing information on personal data the European Regulation on drivers’ hours to drivers of security breaches reported to the Information Commissioner vehicles not exceeding 3.5 tonnes. [278679] for the 2008-09 reporting year before Parliament rises in July. The information is currently being compiled and is Paul Clark: The Department for Transport has had to be audited and verified before it is laid before Parliament. no discussions at EU level on any proposals to extend the EU drivers’ hours rules to drivers of vehicles not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, since the negotiations on Regulation Driving Tests: Motorcycles (EC) No 561/2006 were completed.

Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Electric Vehicles Department for Transport how many candidates of each sex and age group (a) took and (b) passed the Stephen Hammond: To ask the Minister of State, motorcycle driving test in each month since October Department for Transport what estimate he has made 2008. [278650] of the number of electric vans and light commercial vehicles in use on public roads; and what plans he has Paul Clark: The information requested has been placed to facilitate greater usage of vehicles. [278760] in the Libraries of the House. Mr. Khan: The number of electric light goods vehicles registered in Great Britain as at 31 December 2008 was Driving: Licensing 4,149. The Government have a number of policies in place Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department to facilitate greater use of electric vehicles. Electric cars for Transport how many complaints were received by and vans are exempt from vehicle excise duty and fuel (a) the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority and (b) duty. Businesses which purchase electric and low carbon his Department about the processing of driving licence cars can claim enhanced capital allowances and people applications in each year since 1997. [278657] who use electric cars as their company car pay the lowest rate of benefit in kind. Paul Clark: The number of complaints received by In addition to these fiscal measures the Government the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in relation to recently announced a £250 million scheme to support driving licences for each financial year was: the purchase of electric and plug-in hybrid electric cars. 1049W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1050W

This scheme will take effect from 2011 onwards and will Lorries: Vetting help reduce the price of these cars to consumers by £2 to 5,000. The Department for Transport’s low carbon Chris Grayling: To ask the Minister of State, vehicle procurement programme is also supporting the Department for Transport how many drivers of heavy demonstration of low carbon and all-electric vans in goods vehicles carrying hazardous liquid fuels have the public sector and the winners of the procurement been security vetted in each of the last three years; exercise for this project will be announced shortly. what the nationalities were of such drivers; and how many such drivers were not given security clearance. [278288] Highways Agency: Collective Bargaining Paul Clark: The Government do not mandate national John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, security vetting background checks for drivers of heavy Department for Transport whether all staff working in goods vehicles and the data requested are therefore not the Highways Agency are covered by collective available. However, the Carriage of Dangerous Goods bargaining arrangements. [279530] Regulations, in line with EC requirements, set out a range of physical and personnel security measures designed Chris Mole: All staff for whom the Highways Agency to protect vehicles carrying dangerous goods, and their has delegated pay responsibility (staff below senior civil loads, from potential terrorist threats. These regulations service) are covered by collective bargaining arrangements. are supported by detailed guidance to industry, including The Highways Agency seeks to reach agreement with advice on pre-employment checks of drivers and other the unions through collective bargaining and does not categories of staff who may potentially pose a risk. On have a policy of persuading, encouraging or trying to the basis of this guidance companies develop and deliver get staff to opt out of collective bargaining. In relation their own personnel security regimes to manage the to the Highways Agency’s 2008 pay offer, agreement risks to their businesses. with the unions was not possible and internal bargaining Following Stephen Boys Smith’s review of personnel mechanisms had been exhausted. The Highways Agency security in the transport sector, the Department for invited individual members of senior staff below the Transport is working with industry to review existing senior civil service (HA Grades PB8/PB7/TM3), to personnel security regimes to ensure they remain voluntarily opt in to new reward and performance proportionate to the threat. management arrangements. These staff remain covered by collective bargaining arrangements. M25

Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Level Crossings: Hearing Impaired Department for Transport on what date each cost increase for the M25 design, build, finance and operate Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department widening project was approved by Ministers. [278624] for Transport what recent representations he has received on hearing-impaired people and safety at level Chris Mole: Ministers approved an increase in the crossings on railways; what research his Department cost of the two widening schemes (between junctions 16 has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on safety at and 23, and between junctions 27 and 30) that form railway level crossings for hearing-impaired people; part of the M25 Design, Build, Finance and Operate and if he will make a statement. [278762] (DBFO) Contract, on 27 July 2007. Ministers approved a maximum expected cost of the Chris Mole: No direct representations on this subject M25 DBFO Contract itself on 1 April 2009. The contract have been made to the Secretary of State for Transport was awarded within this figure on 20 May 2009. recently. However, we are aware of the concerns of disabled people with the operation of level crossings, Members: Correspondence through regular liaison with the disabled persons transport advisory committee: the Government’s statutory advisors Sir Michael Spicer: To ask the Minister of State, on the transport needs of disabled people, which includes Department for Transport when the Parliamentary Under- representatives of people with impaired hearing. Secretary of State for Roads plans to reply to the email As part of their £10 million annual research programme, from the hon. Member for West Worcestershire, dated 8 funded by the Department for Transport, the Rail Safety May 2009, about shared surface, Ref: JF/PC/012668/09. and Standards Board will shortly be commissioning a [279438] research project into this subject, entitled “T650-Improving safety and accessibility at level crossings for disabled Mr. Khan: The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of pedestrians”. State replied to the hon. Member in a letter dated 18 Network Rail is currently planning for the next generation May 2009. of level crossing designs and the Rail Safety and Standards Board’s research, which should report in 2010, aims to Railways: Bus Services find out what specific facilities for disabled pedestrians should be included in order to improve accessibility and Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, reduce risk. The disabled persons transport advisory Department for Transport what assessment he has committee was involved in establishing the scope of this made of the decision by South West Trains to cancel project, and they, and other groups, will be involved as the Bordon-Liphook rail link bus; and if he will make a the work is taken forward. statement. [278651] 1051W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1052W

Chris Mole: The Rail Link bus service between Liphook Overhead line warning signs were first installed in the and Bordon is not a commitment within the South West north-east region in two stages. The first phase on the Trains Franchise Agreement and Stagecoach South West southern part of that area of the Highways Agency Trains are therefore under no obligation to continue to network was approved in 2005-06 and the second phase provide this facility. for the remainder of the north-east network in 2007-08. As such, no assessment has been made due to this Approval was given by the Highways Agency’s regional being a commercial decision to be managed by Stagecoach director. South West Trains. Decisions to install overhead line warning signs are made regionally, based on technical assessment and Road Signs and Markings need. The initiative in the north-east was introduced in Mr. Goodwill: To ask the Minister of State, response to a fatal accident that occurred on a construction Department for Transport (1) what estimate he has site on the A66 in 2002 when two construction operatives made of the cost to the public purse of installing were killed, having come into contact with an overhead overhead line warning signs on roads for which the power cable while working on a lighting gantry. Highways Agency is responsible in each of the last A detailed cost benefit analysis for the installation of three years; and how many such signs have been overhead warning signs has not been undertaken. installed; [278813] (2) how many (a) accidents and (b) other incidents Roads: Accidents involving vehicles hitting overhead lines on roads for which the Highways Agency is responsible have been reported in each of the last 10 years; and how many Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department such incidents have involved the emergency services; for Transport how many victims of hit-and-run incidents have (a) claimed and (b) obtained compensation from [278814] the Motor Insurers Bureau in each year since 1997. (3) on what date the decision was taken to install [278572] overhead line warning signs on roads for which the Highways Agency is responsible; who took the Paul Clark: No official statistics are gathered which decision; and what cost-benefit analysis of installing address this question directly. overhead line warning signs was undertaken. [278815] Claims made to the Motor Insurers Bureau under the Chris Mole [holding answer 9 June 2009]: The estimate Untraced Drivers Agreement are not restricted to hit of cost to the public purse of installing overhead line and run incidents but can be made in respect of any warning signs on roads for which the Highways Agency incident where the identity of the driver is not known. is responsible is shown in Table 1. The Motor Insurers Bureau estimates that the number Table 1 of claims made in the past four years under the Untraced Number of signs Drivers Agreement is as follows: Cost estimate (£) installed Number 2008-09 116,770 1,579 2007-08 31,500 960 2005 15,862 2006-07 0 0 2006 16,242 2007 15,227 The number of accidents and other incidents involving 2008 15,096 vehicles hitting overhead lines on Highways Agency roads over the last 10 years is shown in Table 2. The number of claims that have been settled in the Table 2 past four years is as follows: Emergency Number of Number of services Number accidents other incidents involved? 2005 13,336 2008/09 0 2 Yes 2006 15,137 1 near miss No 2007 15,382 2007/081 00n/a2008 15,254 2006/071 01Yes 2005/061 00n/aThese figures relate to the year in which the claim was finally settled, not to the date of the claim. Claims are 2004/051 00n/a not necessarily settled in the calendar year in which the 2003/041 00n/a claim is made. 2002/031 00n/a 2001/021 2 fatalities 1 Yes 2000/011 00n/a Transport: Coventry 1999/20001 00n/a 1 Data not available from all regions and cited figure denotes value Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State derived from incomplete or unavailable data for Transport what recent steps his Department has There was no decision of general policy taken to taken to improve (a) rail transport links and (b) other install overhead line warning signs on Highways Agency elements of transport infrastructure in Coventry. roads. [278610] 1053W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1054W

Mr. Khan: The Government have invested in long-term (£ millions) public transport improvements in and around Coventry. Funding provided to local authorities in the West Midlands Bedfordshire Eastern Region conurbation, including Coventry, for local transport 2001-02 7.147 137.774 capital projects has increased from £22 million in 2000-01 2000-01 4.017 56.608 to over £51 million in 2009-10. 1999-2000 4.602 52.125 Coventry has benefited from the £8.8 billion investment 1998-99 3.070 32.150 in the West Coast Main Line upgrade. Since December 1997-98 3.692 41.203 2008, Coventry rail users have seen an improved frequency Note: of intercity services from Birmingham to London from Since 2000 the allocations comprise integrated transport block grant two to three per hour and an increase in rail services and highways maintenance. Prior to 2000 the allocations are in the from Birmingham to Northampton from one to two form of gross approved spending. trains per hour. Coventry is now served by seven trains Revenue expenditure on transport is generally supported per hour to Birmingham. through the Department for Communities and Local Government’s Formula Grant. With regard to other transport infrastructure in and around Coventry, we have invested over £28 million in In addition to this funding, DfT has made some the Coventry Primelines Bus Network scheme, a package funding available specifically to support cycling. In of improvements aimed at improving bus travel in Coventry. 2007-08 and 2008-09, DfT provided £6,720 and £32,000 Coventry is also benefiting from over £50 million of respectively to Bedfordshire county council to fund investment across the West Midlands conurbation in cycling training. In 2009-10, following the local authority upgrading the Urban Traffic Control Centre and the boundary changes, Bedford borough are due to receive first phase of the Red Routes network. £28,000, and central Bedfordshire £35,240 to fund 700 and 881 training places respectively. Transport: East of England Transport: Merseyside Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) how much funding his Department has Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Minister of State, allocated to encourage bicycle usage in (a) Mid Department for Transport (1) how much funding his Bedfordshire and (b) the East of England in each year Department has allocated to encourage bicycle usage in since 1997; [278583] (a) Crosby and (b) Merseyside in each year since (2) how much funding his Department has allocated 1997; [278898] for the development of environmentally-friendly means (2) how much funding his Department allocated for of transportation in (a) Mid Bedfordshire and (b) the transport connections with nature parks in (a) Crosby East of England in each year since 1997; [278584] and (b) Merseyside in each year since 1997; [278899] (3) how much funding his Department allocated to (3) how much funding his Department allocated to transport networks used primarily for tourism in (a) transport networks used primarily for tourism in (a) Mid Bedfordshire and (b) the East of England in each Crosby and (b) Merseyside in each year since 1997; year since 1997; [278586] [278900] (4) how much funding his Department allocated for (4) how much funding his Department allocated for transport connections with nature parks in (a) Mid the development of environmentally-friendly means of Bedfordshire and (b) the East of England region in transportation in (a) Crosby and (b) Merseyside in each year since 1997. [278587] each year since 1997. [278902]

Mr. Khan: Funding provided by the Department for Mr. Khan: Funding provided by the Department for Transport (DfT) to local transport authorities is not Transport (DFT) to local transport authorities is not generally ring-fenced and local authorities have discretion generally ring-fenced and local authorities have discretion to spend their allocations in line with their priorities. to spend their allocations in line with their priorities. Figures are not available at constituency level. Figures are not available at constituency level. The Department provides integrated transport block The Department provides integrated transport block and highways maintenance funding to local transport and highways maintenance funding to local transport authorities to support capital investment in transport, authorities to support capital investment in transport, which may be used for a range of purposes as the which may be used for a range of purposes as the authorities see fit. Allocations provided to Bedfordshire authorities see fit. Crosby falls into the transport authority county council and the eastern region, since 1997, are of Sefton metropolitan borough council. The allocations shown in the following table. provided to Sefton metropolitan borough council and Merseyside as a whole, since 1997, are shown in the (£ millions) table. Bedfordshire Eastern Region £ million 2008-09 9.286 157.771 Sefton Merseyside 2007-08 7.751 159.476 2006-07 9.573 157.826 2008-09 5,029 45,941 2005-06 9.351 156.899 2007-08 4,244 46,532 2004-05 8.001 156.586 2006-07 4,302 43,286 2003-04 7.364 141.735 2005-06 4,095 49,454 2002-03 6.591 140.193 2004-05 5,345 60,208 1055W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1056W

collaborate on the Big Tidy Up campaign encouraging £ million communities and individuals to get involved, and take Sefton Merseyside an interest, in improving their neighbourhood. 2003-04 9,785 61,298 CPRE officials have met DEFRA Ministers and officials 2002-03 7,357 47,395 on several occasions in the last few months. 2001-02 5,136 45,164 2000-01 2,847 22,967 Dairy Farming: Finance 1999-00 — 24,946 1998-99 — 20,063 Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for 1997-98 — 21,313 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much funding Note: his Department allocated for the support of dairy farmers Since 2000 the allocations comprise integrated transport block grant in (a) Mid Bedfordshire and (b) the East of England in and highways maintenance. Prior to 2000 the allocations are in the form of gross approved spending. each year since 1997. [278588] Revenue expenditure on transport is generally supported Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, through the Department for Communities and Local Food and Rural Affairs how much funding his Department Government’s Formula Grant. has allocated for the support of dairy farmers in (a) In addition to this funding, DFT has made some Essex and (b) Castle Point in each year since 1997. funding available specifically to support cycling. In [279328] 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10 DFT provided £250,000, £346,000 and £440,000 respectively to Merseyside to Jim Fitzpatrick: Unfortunately, the data required to fund cycling training. In total Merseyside received provide dairy farmers’ funding information by region £1,036,000 in grants, which will fund 25,900 cycle training and for earlier years are not held in a form that is easily places between 2007 and 2010. accessible. The information requested could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Dairy Farming: Government Assistance Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Secretary of State for taking to assist dairy farmers during the economic Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent downturn. [278322] progress has been made in controlling the spread of bovine tuberculosis among cattle. [278777] Jim Fitzpatrick: The Government are helping the dairy industry help itself adjust to some of the challenges Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 9 June 2009]: Since it faces, for example through the Dairy Supply Chain November 2008 DEFRA has been working alongside Forum. The forum is engaged in an extensive programme representatives of the farming industry and the veterinary of work, looking at issues including barriers to innovation, profession as part of the Bovine TB Eradication Group supply and demand, as well as efficiency at farm level. for England. The Group is examining a range of policies and will make recommendations to the Secretary of The future prospects for the dairy industry are State on establishing a programme which will enable encouraging, and growth in global demand is expected Government and the industry to move towards eventual to return. The UK is well placed to take advantage of eradication of the disease in this country. this. The British dairy sector is fundamentally sound and the efficiency improvements, innovation and investment Bovine TB is a complex and chronic disease and, in in new products mean that in the medium to long term, addition to the long-standing and vital cattle control the sector can do very well. measures in place, we have implemented a wide-ranging programme of research. This includes work on improving Dairy Farming: Merseyside diagnosis, gaining a better understanding of how the disease is spread and pursuing the future use of vaccination Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State of cattle and wildlife, through vaccine research, and the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much development of a badger vaccine deployment project. funding his Department allocated for the support of Council for the Protection of Rural England dairy farmers in (a) Crosby and (b) Merseyside in each year since 1997. [278905] Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Jim Fitzpatrick: The data required to provide dairy discussions he has had with the Council for the Protection farmers’ funding information by region and for earlier of Rural England on its Keep Britain Tidy Day initiative; years are not held in a form that is easily accessible. The and if he will make a statement. [278290] information requested could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Jim Fitzpatrick: In April 2008 the Campaign to Protect Rural England (CPRE) launched their three-year, anti-litter Dairy Products and fly tipping campaign in England’s countryside—‘Stop The Drop’. The Government welcome this contribution Dr. Strang: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, to raising awareness of litter issues. CPRE has worked Food and Rural Affairs what volume of (a) liquid milk, closely with DEFRA’s grant-aided delivery partner, (b) butter and (c) cheese was (i) produced in and (ii) Keep Britain Tidy, to help expand its activities and consumed in the UK in each of the last 10 years. [277296] 1057W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1058W

Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 9 June 2009]: The the UK and the volume available for consumption in volume of drinking milk, butter and cheese produced in the UK is shown in the following table.

Liquid drinking milk Butter Cheese Available for Available for Available for Production consumption Production consumption Production consumption (thousand (thousand (thousand (thousand (million litres) (million litres) tonnes) tonnes) tonnes) tonnes)

1998 6,768 6,800 137 177 367 569 1999 6,889 6,820 141 192 370 586 2000 6,793 6,759 132 201 341 538 2001 6,748 6,775 126 200 395 601 2002 6,825 6,806 136 209 371 574 2003 6,753 6,597 131 207 351 577 2004 6,693 6,497 122 208 359 600 2005 6,652 6,213 130 219 391 648 2006 6,736 6,309 117 226 400 674 2007 6,724 6,388 120 195 378 684 2008 6,722 6,468 113 171 378 697 Source: Agriculture in the United Kingdom 2008, DEFRA.

Litter performance in implementing the Public Sector Food Procurement Initiative. [278694] Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Jim Fitzpatrick: The Government office for London, assessment his Department has made of the effect on as well as all of the other Government offices, has (a) street cleanliness, (b) the welfare of wildlife and co-ordinated the implementation of several projects to (c) the incidence of crime and anti-social behaviour of support the Public Sector Food Procurement Initiative levels of littering. [278292] (PSFPI) since its inception in 2003. In London the projects have ranged from: events and workshops for Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA funds Keep Britain Tidy caterers, chefs and food buyers; guidance and promotional (formerly known as ENCAMS) to carry out the annual material; one-to-one support for individual London Local Environment Quality Survey of England which boroughs; to a project in 2008-09 focusing on researching looks at 32 local environmental quality issues, including the opportunities to expand the reach of PSFPI in the most commonly found items of litter discarded on London. Progress reports on the PSFPI projects carried the street and general cleanliness. The results for the out by the Government offices can be found on the seventh survey were published in March 2009 and are DEFRA website. available on the Keep Britain Tidy website at In addition, an independent evaluation completed in www.keepbritaintidy.org March found that the PSFPI has had a positive impact Litter can be harmful to wildlife and some studies on public sector food procurement. Evidence of this have suggested a link between high levels of litter and success is presented in the report. The report also made crime. DEFRA has made no separate assessment of the a number of recommendations on how performance effects of litter on wildlife or on the incidence of crime could be improved and we are considering how to take and antisocial behaviour. these forward. A copy of the evaluation is on the DEFRA website. Livestock: Finance

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much funding his Department has allocated for the support Cabinet: Glasgow of livestock farmers in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in each year since 1997. [279329] Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many (a) Jim Fitzpatrick: Unfortunately, the data required to special advisers and (b) officials accompanied her to provide livestock farmers’ funding information by region Glasgow for the Cabinet meeting on 16 April 2009. and for earlier years are not held in a form that is easily [273917] accessible. The information requested could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The then Secretary of State was accompanied by a special adviser. For information Public Sector Food Procurement Initiative relating to the Cabinet and public engagement event held in Glasgow on 16 April 2009 I refer the hon. Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Member to the answer given by my right hon. Friend Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment the Prime Minister on 3 June 2009, Official Report, has been made of the Government Office for London’s column 487W. 1059W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1060W

Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Percentage of Communities and Local Government what car invoices received journeys she took in attending the Cabinet meeting in Number of invoices which were paid Glasgow on 16 April 2009. [273918] Month paid within 10 days within 10 days

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The then Secretary of State December 2008 3,248 85.23 took the following car journeys: January 2009 4,935 86.22 February 2009 4,997 88.11 (1) From her hotel in the city centre to FARE (Family Action in Rogerfield and Easterhouse) in Easterhouse, including a guided March 2009 6,638 88.33 car tour of Easterhouse and Rogerfield April 2009 4,515 83.55 (2) From FARE to the Scottish Exhibition and Conference May 2009 3,876 91.83 Centre (SECC) where the Cabinet meeting was held. (3) From the SECC to Glasgow Central train station. Departmental Data Protection For information relating to the Cabinet and public engagement event held in Glasgow on 16 April I refer James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for the hon. Member to the answer given by my right hon. Communities and Local Government how many Friend the Prime Minister on 3 June 2009, Official notifications his Department made to the Information Report, column 487W. Commissioner in the year ended 30 April 2009 in respect of the loss or mishandling of personal Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for information or data; what was notified in each such Communities and Local Government how much case; and how many individuals were the subjects of expenditure was incurred by her Department in respect personal information or data in respect of which such of the Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009. notifications were made. [278753] [273919] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: No such notifications have been Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The expenditure incurred was made by the Department for Communities and Local £871. Government in the 12 months to 30 April 2009.

Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what expenditure Communities and Local Government how many on (a) travel, (b) accommodation and (c) food (i) she officials in (a) his Department and (b) its agencies and (ii) officials in her Department incurred in have been (i) disciplined and (ii) dismissed for (A) connection with the Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 breaches of data protection requirements and (B) April 2009. [273920] inappropriate use of personal or sensitive data in the last 12 months. [278754] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The information is as follows: (i) The costs incurred for the then Secretary of State’s Sarah McCarthy-Fry: No officials in CLG, or its visit to Glasgow were: agencies, have been either disciplined or dismissed for (a) travel—£497 breaches of data protection or inappropriate use of personal or sensitive data in the last 12 months. (b) accommodation—£78 (c) no additional costs were claimed for food. European Regional Development Fund (ii) The costs incurred for her special adviser were: (a) travel—£218 Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) accommodation—£78 Communities and Local Government with reference to (c) no additional costs were claimed for food. page 18 of the Government response to the Communities and Local Government Committee’s Departmental Billing Report on the Department for Communities and Local Government’s Annual Report 2008, Cm. 7614, if he Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for will place in the Library a copy of the comprehensive Communities and Local Government how many and ERDF User Manual. [279802] what proportion of invoices his Department and its agencies paid within 10 days of receipt in each of the Ms Rosie Winterton: I will arrange for the ERDF last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. User Manual to be placed in the Library. [278822] Food: Greater London Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The number and proportion of invoices paid by CLG and its agencies within 10 days in each of the months since these data have been collected Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for against the 10-day target is as follows: Communities and Local Government what assessment has been made of the Government Office for London’s Percentage of performance in meeting its objectives in relation to the invoices received London Food Strategy. [278976] Number of invoices which were paid Month paid within 10 days within 10 days Ms Rosie Winterton: As the London Food Strategy is November 2008 3,442 77.89 owned by the Mayor of London, it is for the Mayor to assess progress on the priority objectives. 1061W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1062W

Government Office for London: Pay Glyn Evans, Assistant Director on Transformation to the Chief Executive, Birmingham City Council, West Midlands region Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Maura Brooks, Chief Officer for ICT, Leeds City Council, Yorkshire and Humberside region Communities and Local Government how much was paid in bonuses to (a) directors, (b) senior managers, Donna Hall, Chief Executive, Chorley Borough Council, North West region (c) specialist and delivery managers and (d) executive support and administration staff at the Government David Hill, Chief Executive, Ashford Borough Council, South East region Office for London in each year from 2001-02 to Peter Sloman Chief Executive, Oxford City Council South 2008-09. [278697] East region Caroline Tapster, Chief Executive, Hertfordshire County Council, Ms Rosie Winterton: The tables set out the total East of England region performance bonuses paid to GOL staff from 2004-05. Information broken down as requested is not available John Everitt, Chief Executive, Bath and North East Somerset, South West region prior to 2004-05 because of a change in the Government office network accounting system. Lyn Martin-Bennison, Chief Executive, Borough Council of Wellingborough, East Midland region GOL bonus data—amounts payable Tim Rainey, Assistant Chief Executive Tameside Metropolitan £ Borough Council, North West Region 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Stakeholder representatives Directors and deputy 32,824 35,843 56,239 90,579 52,300 Andrew Campbell Director, Local Strategic Partnerships and directors (senior Performance, Communities and Local Government managers) Stephen Jones, Director for Finance, Local Government Specialists 1,675 1,100 2,269 4,250 3,557 Association All other staff 85,472 96,160 121,383 141,776 120,641 Sarah Fogden, Deputy Director Service Transformation, Public Total for year 119,971 133,103 179,891 236,605 176,498 Service Reform Unit, Cabinet Office John Hayes, Director Local Government Services, IDeA GOL bonus data—staff in receipt of a bonus 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 John Blundell, Deputy Director, Government Office Network/ Regional Coordination Unit Directors and deputy 5 8 10 11 7 Siobhan Coughlan, Secretariat for LGDC, IDeA directors (senior managers) Central Government departmental representatives Specialists 5 1333 Tim O’Connor, Care and Efficiency Delivery Programme, All other staff 145 75 127 125 107 Department of Health Total for year 155 84 140 139 117 Lyn McDonald, Tell Us Once Programme Director, Department for Work and Pensions Trevor Huddlestone, Strategy Director, Department for Work Local Government Delivery Council and Pensions (DWP) Other representatives Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Maggie Jones, Chief Executive, Children England Communities and Local Government what the (a) remit and (b) membership of the Local Government Regional Government: Finance Delivery Council is. [279925]

Ms Rosie Winterton: The Local Government Delivery Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Council (LGDC) drives forward local service Communities and Local Government what the transformation. It is part of local government’s commitment operating budget was of each regional Government to delivering services that meet the needs and expectations office for (a) salaries, (b) accommodation, (c) of citizens and businesses. non-salary expenditure and (d) non-cash expenditure in each year from 2001-02 to 2008-09. [278695] The LGDC provides a forum where national activity around transformation can be brought together, monitored Ms Rosie Winterton: The total operating budgets for and developed. The council was established in 2007 2001-02 and 2002-03 are included in the following table, under the auspices of the Local Government Association though as this pre-dates our current accounting system (LGA). It held its first meeting in September 2007 and we cannot provide the breakdown requested. now meets quarterly. Current members of the LGDC are as follows: £000 Local authority representatives GO 2001-02 2002-03 Janet Callender, Chair of LDC East 8,632 9,356 Steve Baker, Chief Executive, Suffolk Coastal District Council, East Midlands 8,245 8,713 East of England region London 1,3161 14,039 Pat Harding, Corporate Director, Customer Service and North East 9,002 9,954 Transformation, Cambridge County Council, East of England North West 15,345 15,524 region South East 10,326 10,875 Dave Smith, Chief Executive, Sunderland City Council, North South West 10,667 11,861 East region West Midlands 10,296 10,663 Bill Murphy, Corporate Director of Resources, London Borough Yorks and Humber 10,037 10,944 of Barking and Dagenham, London region 1063W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1064W

The operating budget cost figures for the Government Non-salary Offices for financial years 2003-04 to 2008-09 are as £000 shown in the following tables: GO 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Salary costs South 2,130 1,894 1,667 1,379 557 581 £000 East GO 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 South 2,601 2,755 1,510 1,996 1,384 1,369 West East 7,984 9,506 9,972 9,559 8,513 8,010 West 2,064 2,044 1,546 1,052 789 1,509 East 8,130 9,042 9,438 9,016 8,063 7,892 Midlands Midlands Yo rk s a n d 1,955 1,996 1,885 2,056 1,037 1,039 London 10,845 13,684 13,619 12,940 11,972 11,415 Humber North East 9,024 10,214 10,453 10,209 9,289 9,190 Non-cash North West 10,709 12,380 12,669 12,502 11,216 10,462 £000 South East 9,933 11,200 11,820 11,490 11,409 10,301 GO 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 South West 9,396 10,934 11,174 10,549 9,869 9,160 West 9,234 10,008 9,967 9,736 9,477 9,531 East 137 867 45 29 0 0 Midlands East 8 238 120 276 513 58 Yo rk s a n d 8,722 10,005 10,094 9,372 8,678 8,276 Midlands Humber London 0 77 245 327 274 0 North East 3 76 137 201 143 0 Accommodation North 12 216 116 109 106 7 £000 West GO 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 South East 6 72 131 125 125 2 East 2,730 3,155 2,493 2,372 2,179 58 South West 101 225 136 115 66 7 East 1,118 1,491 1,601 1,508 1,288 10 West 3 329 403 481 345 3 Midlands Midlands London 3,235 4,001 3,983 4,054 3,863 40 Yo rk s a n d 13 30 85 93 143 0 Humber North 913 2,361 2,285 2,408 2,663 154 East Regional Government: Manpower North 3,063 3,885 3,190 3,223 3,266 8 West Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for South 2,042 1,858 1,897 1,599 1,715 133 East Communities and Local Government how many (a) South 1,975 3,206 3,337 3,619 3,892 19 directors, (b) senior managers, (c) specialist and delivery West managers and (d) executive support and administration West 2,081 3,354 3,072 4,265 4,917 53 staff there were in each regional Government office in Midlands each year from 2001-02 to 2008-09. [278696] Yo rk s a n d 1,608 2,220 2,366 3,912 3,889 0 Humber Ms Rosie Winterton: Each of the nine Government Note: offices in the English regions are led by a regional Re-organisation of the Government Office Network in 2008-09 has director who is supported by deputy regional directors resulted in the centralisation of accommodation costs. These are and mainstream civil servants working in grades from managed centrally and are no longer a part of the GO budgets. The grade 6 to administrative assistant. Consequently the accommodation budget for 2008-09 (Gross) was £28,460,866. Non-salary figures quantify staff numbers by those grades. £000 Prior to 2003 the personnel management arrangements GO 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 for senior civil service staff (regional directors and deputy regional directors) working within the network East 1,891 2,223 1,510 1,122 1,182 1,315 were the responsibility of their employing departments. East 1,709 1,693 2,172 1,336 1,535 1,194 Consequently GO network records are not available Midlands prior to 2003. London 2,577 2,312 2,062 1,391 910 997 Based upon staff in post figures GO staff, including North 2,233 1,785 1,162 991 725 1,371 fixed term appointments, casual employees and those East staff temporarily away from the office (eg on maternity North 2,973 2,939 2,658 1,871 2,228 2,042 West leave or career break) in April of each year specified, the table below gives the figures requested.

Deputy regional Grade 6—higher executive Executive officer—admin Regional directors (senior officer(specialist and asst (executive and Government office directors management) delivery managers) administrative support)

East of England 2001-02 1 1—86102 2002-03 1 1—86115 2003-04 1 5 123 121 2004-05 1 6 142 143 2005-06 1 4 144 135 2006-07 1 4 152 115 1065W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1066W

Deputy regional Grade 6—higher executive Executive officer—admin Regional directors (senior officer(specialist and asst (executive and Government office directors management) delivery managers) administrative support)

2007-08 1 4 141 75 2008-09 1 5 144 50

East Midlands 2001-02 1 1—91139 2002-03 1 1— 113 137 2003-04 1 4 133 150 2004-05 1 5 158 148 2005-06 1 3 160 135 2006-07 1 4 146 120 2007-08 1 7 124 87 2008-09 1 7 119 77

London 2001-02 1 1— 158 153 2002-03 1 1— 162 140 2003-04 1 8 199 142 2004-05 1 8 235 133 2005-06 1 9 208 122 2006-07 1 9 177 102 2007-08 1 9 157 77 2008-09 1 8 157 77

North East 2001-02 1 1— 102 160 2002-03 1 1— 115 175 2003-04 1 3 122 182 2004-05 1 5 147 191 2005-06 1 5 156 174 2006-07 1 3 137 169 2007-08 1 6 129 124 2008-09 1 6 134 101

North West 2001-02 1 1— 148 240 2002-03 1 1— 115 217 2003-04 1 5 162 208 2004-05 1 9 175 203 2005-06 1 8 175 189 2006-07 1 7 179 178 2007-08 1 8 150 129 2008-09 1 8 139 110

South East 2001-02 1 1— 122 146 2002-03 1 1— 148 156 2003-04 1 6 148 148 2004-05 1 8 185 152 2005-06 1 7 191 143 2006-07 1 4 171 227 2007-08 1 6 159 110 2008-09 1 7 160 84

South West 2001-02 1 1— 110 158 2002-03 1 1— 124 171 2003-04 1 6 141 163 2004-05 1 6 174 188 2005-06 1 5 169 179 1067W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1068W

Deputy regional Grade 6—higher executive Executive officer—admin Regional directors (senior officer(specialist and asst (executive and Government office directors management) delivery managers) administrative support)

2006-07 1 6 159 151 2007-08 1 7 144 117 2008-09 1 8 142 87

West Midlands 2001-02 1 1— 113 190 2002-03 1 1— 112 179 2003-04 1 5 128 205 2004-05 1 6 144 193 2005-06 1 2 145 185 2006-07 1 4 132 151 2007-08 1 4 128 121 2008-09 1 4 138 97

Yorkshire and 2001-02 1 1— 104 161 Humber 2002-03 1 1— 107 168 2003-04 1 7 118 164 2004-05 1 7 154 162 2005-06 1 5 150 153 2006-07 1 7 142 139 2007-08 1 8 116 114 2008-09 1 9 117 91 1 Information not available

Regional Ministers: Official Engagements Children in Care: Personal Records

Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the official Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer engagements of (a) the Minister for London, (b) the of 7 May 2009, Official Report, column 413W, on Minister for Yorkshire and the Humber, (c) the children in care: personal records, what penalties local Minister for the South East, (d) the Minister for the authorities may incur for not keeping children’s records North West, (e) the Minister for the East of England, for the required amount of time. [276649] (f) the Minister for the East Midlands, (g) the Minister for the South West, (h) the Minister for the Dawn Primarolo: Where a local authority failed to North East and (i) the Minister for the West Midlands comply with regulations by not keeping children’s records in their roles as regional ministers were between (i) 1 for the required time, then the person(s) whose records and 31 March, (ii) 1 and 30 April and (iii) 1 and 31 were lost would be entitled to take legal action to seek May 2009. [279569] whatever redress is judged to be appropriate from the authority concerned. Ms Rosie Winterton: The information requested has been placed in the Library. Children: Abuse

Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES representations he has received on the allegations of child abuse at Kendall House. [271015] Children in Care: Missing Persons Dawn Primarolo: Since August 2008, the Department Mr. Vara: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, has received 42 emails and two letters related to allegations Schools and Families how many children went missing of abuse at Kendall House. from care homes in each local authority area in each year from 1999 to 2003. [275226] Departmental Billing

Dawn Primarolo: The information has been placed in Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for the House Libraries. Children, Schools and Families what the average Information on the number of looked after children number of days taken to pay an invoice by (a) his that went missing from care homes was not collected in Department and (b) each of its executive agencies was 1999 and 2000. in each month since November 2008. [279524] 1069W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1070W

Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department for Children, Area Based Grant are also used to fund specialist Schools and Families does not hold readily available treatment services where appropriate. information on the average number of days to pay an For the vast majority of young people under 18 invoice. This information cannot be extracted from community-based services are the most appropriate existing payment performance data without incurring option. There are a total of 35 residential places available disproportionate cost to the Department. across the country that is able to support young people However, the following table shows the proportion of with substance misuse and other complex needs. In all invoices paid by the Department within 10 working addition, local authorities can arrange a package of days, following the announcement by the Prime Minister support that combines specialist drug treatment with in October 2008. specialist children’s home, fostering places or other supported accommodation. Date Number of invoices Percentage

November 2008 3,588 91.6 Schools: Essex December 2008 3,712 90.1 January 2009 3,629 91.8 Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for February 2009 4,195 92.5 Children, Schools and Families how much funding the March 2009 5,500 93.2 Government allocated to increasing parental April 2009 3,947 84.1 engagement in schools in (a) Essex and (b) Castle May 2009 3,061 92.0 Point in each year since 1997. [279337]

The Department does not have any executive agencies. Dawn Primarolo: The Government are committed to supporting parental engagement, that support can take Family Courts: Grandparents many forms at a local level such as targeted support and family learning. In the Children’s Plan: Progress Report Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for published in December 2008 we outlined further measures Children, Schools and Families what (a) recent discussions to support parents, schools and early years settings in he has had and (b) discussions he has planned with the engaging parents as partners in their children’s learning— Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service comprising action to support parents and to prioritise on ensuring that family court proceedings include the parental engagement throughout the education system. examination of the relationship between grandparents It is important that support for parental engagement and children. [278456] is embedded in the day to day work of professionals in schools and early years settings and is established as Dawn Primarolo: The Secretary of State for Children, part of the core business of those organisations. Schools and Families has had no discussions with the This means a variety of funding routes should be Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service used to support parental engagement. However, the (CAFCASS) on the issue of the relationship between main initiatives that cover parental engagement in schools grandparents and children in court proceedings and are extended services including parent support advisors none are planned on this issue. and family learning interventions. CAFCASS has a statutory remit to ensure that the Because parental engagement is only one element of best interests of the child are protected and that children extended services decisions are made locally about spending are not put at risk. It is for local authorities to explore and priorities, it is only possible to give overall government kinship care and placements with the wider family in funding on these programmes for this area. Details of public law care cases and for CAFCASS to explore funding for these programmes since their inception are whether extended family placement options have been set out in the following table. properly considered and assessed. It is not possible to provide figures for Castle Point as CAFCASS, in family court cases, often need to consider they are a district of Essex and funding is only provided the relevance of a child’s attachment to one or more to local authorities. grandparents and to promote both contact and residence options where these are in the child’s best interests. Extended services1 Family learning2

Rehabilitation: Lincolnshire Essex 2003-043 n/a 0 Mr. Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 n/a 0 Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer 2005-06 1,949,295 0 of 20 May 2009, Official Report, column 1434W, on 2006-07 3,797,326 0 rehabilitation: Lincolnshire, how much of the (a) £24.7 2007-08 4,667,039 0 million and (b) matched additional funds for drugs 2008-09 5,172,358 44,541 and alcohol treatment is being provided for residential 2009-10 7,514,337 — treatment for under-18s. [279298] 2010-11 6,190,553 — 1 Is made up of start up, sustainability and subsidy funding. Subsidy Dawn Primarolo: That information is not held centrally. funding is only in 2008 to 2010 and has not been allocated for 2010 The £24.7 million pooled treatment budget is allocated yet. The sustainability line includes funding for PSAs from 2008 onwards. to local authorities to enable them to commission treatment 2 Allocation for 2009 onwards has not been decided yet. services according to the local needs of young people. 3 The funding from 2003 to 2006 is for full service extended schools Additional funds from the Primary Care Trust and the and includes allocation for start up, co-ordinators and child care. 1071W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1072W

Schools: Merseyside Dawn Primarolo: The Government are committed to supporting parental engagement, that support can take Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State many forms at a local level such as targeted support and for Children, Schools and Families how much funding family learning. In the Children’s Plan: Progress Report his Department has allocated to increasing parental published in December 2008 we outlined further measures engagement in schools in (a) Crosby and (b) to support parents, schools and early years settings in Merseyside in each year since 1997. [278907] engaging parents as partners in their children’s learning— comprising action to support parents and to prioritise Dawn Primarolo: The Government are committed to parental engagement throughout the education system. supporting parental engagement, that support can take It is important that support for parental engagement many forms at a local level such as targeted support and is embedded in the day to day work of professionals in family learning. In the Children’s Plan: Progress Report schools and early years settings and is established as published in December 2008 we outlined further measures part of the core business of those organisations. to support parents, schools and early years settings in engaging parents as partners in their children’s learning— This means a variety of funding routes should be comprising action to support parents and to prioritise used to support parental engagement. However, the parental engagement throughout the education system. main initiatives that cover parental engagement in schools It is important that support for parental engagement are extended services including parent support advisors is embedded in the day to day work of professionals in and family learning interventions. schools and early years settings and is established as part of the core business of those organisations. Because parental engagement is only one element of extended services decisions are made locally about spending This means a variety of funding routes should be and priorities, it is only possible to give overall Government used to support parental engagement. However, the funding on these programmes for this area. Details of main initiatives that cover parental engagement in schools funding for these programmes since their inception is are extended services including parent support advisors set out in the following table. and family learning interventions. Because parental engagement is only one element of Extended Family extended services decisions are made locally about spending Services1 PSA pilot2 Learning3 and priorities, it is only possible to give overall government Bedfordshire (until funding on these programmes for this area. Details of 31 March 2009) funding for these programmes since their inception is 2003-044 0 n/a 0 set out in the following table. 2004-05 0 n/a 0 2005-06 673,807 n/a 0 Extended services1 Family learning2 2006-07 1,118,420 n/a 0 2007-08 1,424,510 n/a 0 Sefton 2008-09 1,758,593 n/a 74,283 2003-043 213,000 0 2009-10 0 n/a — 2004-05 145,000 0 2005-06 500,603 0 Bedford (from 1 2006-07 959,510 0 April 2009) 2007-08 1,184,746 0 2003-044 n/a n/a 0 2008-09 1,285,292 39,123 2004-05 n/a n/a 0 2009-10 1,815,975 — 2005-06 n/a n/a 0 2010-11 1,393,927 — 2006-07 n/a n/a 0 2007-08 n/a n/a 0 Merseyside 2008-09 n/a n/a 0 2003-043 1,756,568 0 2009-10 1,041,449 n/a 0 2004-04 1,639,568 0 2005-06 2,497,193 0 Central Bedford 2006-07 5,034,181 0 (from 1 April 2009) 2007-08 6,711,863 0 2003-044 n/a n/a 0 2008-09 8,180,183 305,850 2004-05 n/a n/a 0 2009-10 11,050,076 — 2005-06 n/a n/a 0 2010-11 7,539,961 — 2006-07 n/a n/a 0 1 Is made up of start up, sustainability and subsidy funding. Subsidy funding is 2007-08 n/a n/a 0 only in 2008 to 2010 and has not been allocated for 2010 yet. 2Allocation for 2009 onwards has not been decided yet. 2008-09 n/a n/a 0 3 The funding from 2003 to 2006 is for full service extended schools and includes 2009-10 1,447,256 n/a 0 allocation for start up, co-ordinators and child care.

Schools: Parents GO East 2003-044 282,000 n/a 0 Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 1,761,279 n/a 0 Children, Schools and Families how much funding his 2005-06 8,648,274 n/a 0 Department has allocated towards increasing parental 2006-07 16,219,812 956,907 0 engagement in (a) Mid Bedfordshire and (b) the East 2007-08 20,187,899 1,913,815 0 of England schools in each year since 1997. [278567] 2008-09 25,338,893 664,700 684,460 1073W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1074W

Overseas Aid Extended Family Services1 PSA pilot2 Learning3

2009-10 35,602,140 0 — Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State 1 Is made up of start up, sustainability and subsidy funding. Subsidy funding for International Development with reference to the is only in 2008-10 and has not been allocated for 2010 yet. The sustainability answers of 5 June 2008, Official Report, column line includes funding for PSAs from 2008 onwards. 2 The pilot ran until September 2008. 1131W, on overseas aid, and 24 March 2009, Official 3 Some of the funding for Bedfordshire is being utilised in the Mid Report, column 265W, on sub-Saharan Africa: malaria, Bedfordshire geographical area (along with the South Bedfordshire District for what reasons data on the levels of demand for bed and Bedford Borough areas) but it would be very difficult to identify exactly how much. Allocation for 2009 onwards has not been decided yet. nets are no longer available by country. [278613] 4 The funding from 2003-06 is for Full Service Extended Schools and includes allocation for start-up, co-ordinators and child care. Mr. Michael Foster: Data on levels of actual demand, at community level, by country is not available. The wording of earlier answers did not make a clear distinction INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT between this and demand levels for procurement purposes. Afghanistan: Overseas Aid As stated in the answer of 24 March 2009, Official Report, column 265W,the World Malaria Report, issued Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for International by the World Health Organisation (WHO) in September Development what percentage of his Department’s aid 2008 (which can be found at http://www.who.int/malaria/ programme for Afghanistan is planned to be channelled wmr2008/malaria2008.pdf) includes detailed data on through (a) the Afghan national government, (b) Afghan levels of bed-net ownership, usage and coverage by regional governments, (c) Afghan non-governmental country. organisations, (d) international non-governmental For procurement purposes, the demand for insecticide organisations and (e) provincial reconstruction teams treated bed nets is estimated using routine epidemiological in 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. [278643] and population data collected by national malaria control programmes. However, data on demand at community Mr. Michael Foster: The approximate planned allocations level is not routinely collected and to do so would be for 2009-10 are 59 per cent. through the Afghan National impractical given the financial and human resource Government; 8 per cent. through Afghan non-governmental constraints available in poorer developing countries. organisations; 24 per cent. through international non- governmental organisations; and 7 per cent. through the provincial reconstruction teams. The Department Zimbabwe for International Development (DFID) does not pass funding directly through provincial governments. Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Most of our development assistance provided to the International Development whether he has received Afghan National Government goes through the requests from the Zimbabwean government for Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund (ARTF), which financial support; and what the Government’s policy is managed by the World Bank. Its systems are audited on such support is. [278633] by PriceWaterhouseCoopers. The ARTF reimburses the Afghan Government only upon proof of legitimate Mr. Douglas Alexander: The Inclusive Government expenditure. of Zimbabwe has made a number of formal and informal Departmental Billing requests for financial support to its international partners, including the UK. Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for The UK has committed an additional £15 million for International Development what the average number humanitarian and other essential budget priorities including of days taken to pay an invoice by (a) his Department health, water and sanitation and agricultural inputs. and (b) each of its executive agencies was in each Some of this support will be used for additional technical month since November 2008. [279522] assistance to help the new Government address priorities Mr. Douglas Alexander: As of 12 June 2009, the for reform. At present, none of this support is channelled average number of days taken by the Department for through Government systems. International Development (DFID), to pay an invoice The UK Government are entirely committed to in each month since November 2008 is shown in the supporting the people of Zimbabwe on the path towards following table: reform. As I said on 23 April when announcing our additional support: Average number of “The creation of a more inclusive government represents a real days to make opportunity for much needed change. We welcome efforts by the Date Number of invoices payment new Government to deliver economic, social and political reform. November 2008 1,905 10 Credible progress will attract increasing support from donors and other partners to tackle the root causes of Zimbabwe’s problems.” December 2008 1,891 11 January 2009 2,677 7 February 2009 2,061 8 Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for International March 2009 2,191 12 Development what reports he has received of the level April 2009 1,872 9 of the budget deficit of the Zimbabwean government in the current financial year; and what recent discussions May 2009 1,654 6 he has had with the Zimbabwean government on its DFID has no executive agencies. financial position. [278634] 1075W Written Answers12 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 1076W

Mr. Douglas Alexander: According to a report from ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE the International Monetary Fund (IMF) following its Environment Protection: Transport March 2009 Article IV mission to Zimbabwe, the Inclusive Government has made significant progress in stabilising Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for a very difficult economic situation. The report also Energy and Climate Change how much funding his pointed to a potential budget deficit of around $200 Department has allocated to encourage take up of million in 2009. environmentally-friendly means of transportation in The UK Government have been at the forefront of (a) Mid Bedfordshire constituency and (b) the East of efforts by the international community to monitor and England since it was established; and if he will make a respond to the financial and technical needs of the statement. [278843] Inclusive Government during this difficult transition period. Following discussions with the Zimbabwean Mr. Khan: I have been asked to reply. Minister of Finance, I announced in April this year a Funding provided by the Department for Transport £15 million package of UK support for key government (DfT) to local transport authorities is not generally priorities, including assistance to health systems, water ring-fenced and local authorities have discretion to and sanitation and smallholder farming. At present, spend their allocations in line with their priorities. Figures none of this support is channelled through Government are not available at constituency level. systems. The Department provides integrated transport block and highways maintenance funding to local transport authorities to support capital investment in transport, which may be used for a range of purposes as the NORTHERN IRELAND authorities see fit. Allocations provided to Bedfordshire county council and the eastern region, since 1997, are Departmental Data Protection shown in the following table.

(£ millions) James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for Bedfordshire Eastern Region Northern Ireland how many officials in (a) his Department and (b) its agencies have been (i) 2008-09 9.286 157.771 disciplined and (ii) dismissed for (A) breaches of data 2007-08 7.751 159.476 protection requirements and (B) inappropriate use of 2006-07 9.573 157.826 personal or sensitive data in the last 12 months. 2005-06 9.351 156.899 [278722] 2004-05 8.001 156.586 2003-04 7.364 141.735 Paul Goggins: There have been no such cases. 2002-03 6.591 140.193 The Northern Ireland Office has clear policies and 2001-02 7.147 137.774 processes in place to ensure that staff understand the 2000-01 4.017 56.608 importance of data security and data confidentiality 1999-2000 4.602 52.125 and to ensure that any cases of potential data loss can 1998-99 3.070 32.150 be properly dealt with. 1997-98 3.692 41.203 Note: Departmental Official Hospitality Since 2000 the allocations comprise integrated transport block grant and highways maintenance. Prior to 2000 the allocations are in the form of gross approved spending. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Revenue expenditure on transport is generally supported Northern Ireland how much his Department has spent through the Department for Communities and Local on (a) conference services and (b) banqueting services Government’s Formula Grant. in each of the last five years. [274500] In addition to this funding, DfT has made some funding available specifically to support cycling. In Mr. Woodward: The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) 2007-08 and 2008-09, DfT provided £6,720 and £32,000 records expenditure for conferences and banquets under respectively to Bedfordshire county council to fund the description of hospitality or catering. Due to the cycling training. In 2009-10, following the local authority high volume of transactions within these expenditure boundary changes, Bedford borough are due to receive areas it would be possible to extract the costs requested £28,000, and central Bedfordshire £35,240 to fund 700 only at disproportionate cost. and 881 training places respectively. WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Friday 12 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 51WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 53WS National Minimum Wage ...... 51WS General Affairs and External Relations Council .... 53WS Overseas Security Information (Business) ...... 54WS DEFENCE...... 51WS NATO Training Mission for Afghanistan ...... 51WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 55WS Chief Constable’s Annual Report ...... 55WS

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 52WS WALES...... 55WS EU Energy Council...... 52WS Departmental Report...... 55WS

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 56WS AFFAIRS...... 52WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer DEFRA (Departmental Report)...... 52WS Affairs Council ...... 56WS PETITION

Friday 12 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 15P Traffic Noise (M6) ...... 15P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Friday 12 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 1067W DEFENCE—continued Children: Abuse ...... 1068W Crown Dependencies: Armed Forces ...... 1014W Children in Care: Missing Persons ...... 1067W Departmental Billing ...... 1014W Children in Care: Personal Records ...... 1068W Members: Correspondence ...... 1015W Departmental Billing ...... 1068W Family Courts: Grandparents ...... 1069W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 1076W Rehabilitation: Lincolnshire...... 1069W Environment Protection: Transport ...... 1076W Schools: Essex...... 1070W Schools: Merseyside...... 1071W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Schools: Parents...... 1071W AFFAIRS...... 1055W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 1055W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1058W Council for the Protection of Rural England ...... 1055W Cabinet: Glasgow...... 1058W Dairy Farming: Finance...... 1056W Departmental Billing ...... 1059W Dairy Farming: Government Assistance ...... 1056W Departmental Data Protection...... 1060W Dairy Farming: Merseyside...... 1056W European Regional Development Fund...... 1060W Dairy Products...... 1056W Food: Greater London...... 1060W Litter...... 1057W Government Office for London: Pay...... 1061W Livestock: Finance...... 1057W Local Government Delivery Council...... 1061W Public Sector Food Procurement Initiative...... 1057W Regional Government: Finance ...... 1062W Regional Government: Manpower...... 1064W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 1015W Regional Ministers: Official Engagements ...... 1067W British Overseas Territories:...... 1015W British Overseas Territories: Nature Conservation . 1015W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 1024W Demos...... 1016W Climate Change ...... 1024W Departmental Billing ...... 1016W Cultural Heritage ...... 1025W Departmental Marketing ...... 1017W Demos...... 1025W Diplomatic Service...... 1017W Departmental Billing ...... 1025W Election Observers ...... 1018W Gambling: Sports...... 1025W European Court of Justice ...... 1018W Sports: Drugs...... 1026W North Korea ...... 1019W Tourism: Balance of Payments...... 1027W Poland: Anti-Semitism ...... 1019W Tourism: Finance ...... 1027W South America: Embassies...... 1019W

DEFENCE...... 1013W HEALTH...... 1020W Air Force: Housing ...... 1013W Arthritis: Health Services...... 1020W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 1013W Burns: Liverpool ...... 1020W Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH—continued TRANSPORT—continued Fractures...... 1021W Level Crossings: Hearing Impaired ...... 1049W Mental Health Services ...... 1021W Lorries: Vetting ...... 1050W NHS: Public Consultation ...... 1023W M25 ...... 1050W Skin Cancer: Health Education...... 1023W Members: Correspondence ...... 1050W Railways: Bus Services ...... 1050W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 1073W Road Signs and Markings...... 1051W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 1073W Roads: Accidents ...... 1052W Departmental Billing ...... 1073W Transport: Coventry...... 1052W Overseas Aid...... 1074W Transport: East of England ...... 1053W Zimbabwe ...... 1074W Transport: Merseyside...... 1054W TREASURY ...... 1042W JUSTICE...... 1028W Banks: Iceland ...... 1042W Prisoners Release ...... 1028W Individual Savings Accounts ...... 1042W Prisoners Release: Foreigners...... 1028W Members: Correspondence ...... 1043W Sentencing: Crimes of Violence...... 1029W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 1029W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 1075W Child Support Agency: Official Hospitality ...... 1029W Departmental Data Protection...... 1075W Children: Maintenance ...... 1030W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 1075W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 1032W Jobcentre Plus: Greater London...... 1032W OLYMPICS ...... 1023W Jobcentre Plus: Interviews...... 1033W Football: Olympic Games 2012...... 1023W Jobcentre Plus: Redundancy Pay...... 1034W Olympic Games 2012: Hadleigh...... 1024W Jobcentre Plus: Standards ...... 1035W Jobcentre Plus: Telephone Services ...... 1035W TRANSPORT ...... 1043W Jobcentre Plus: Vacancies...... 1037W A47: Cambridgeshire ...... 1043W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 1038W Aviation ...... 1043W New Deal Schemes...... 1037W Bus Services ...... 1045W Social Security Benefits...... 1039W Departmental Billing ...... 1046W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 1039W Departmental Data Protection...... 1047W Social Security Benefits: Personal Records...... 1039W Driving: Licensing...... 1047W Unemployment ...... 1039W Driving Tests: Motorcycles ...... 1047W Vocational Training...... 1040W Driving: Working Hours ...... 1048W Welfare Reform Bill ...... 1041W Electric Vehicles ...... 1048W Welfare to Work: Standards ...... 1042W Highways Agency: Collective Bargaining...... 1049W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 1042W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Friday 19 June 2009

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CONTENTS

Friday 12 June 2009

Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [Col. 1034] Read the Third time and passed

Swine Flu Update [Col. 1052] Statement—(Andy Burnham)

Crown Employment (Nationality) Bill [Col. 1067] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr. Dismore)—on an inquorate Division, stood over

Broadcasting (Public Service Content) Bill [Col. 1090] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr. Chope)—debate adjourned

Sri Lanka [Col. 1107] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 51WS]

Petitions [Col. 15P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 1013W] [see index inside back page]