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1 1 COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 2 GAME AND FISHERIES COMMITTEE 3 PUBLIC HEARING IN RE: HB223 & HB366 4 Monday, June 15, 2015 11:00 a.m. 5 G50 Irvis Office Building 6 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 7 BEFORE: HONORABLE KEITH GILLESPIE, MAJORITY CHAIR 8 HONORABLE HAL ENGLISH HONORABLE GARTH EVERETT 9 HONORABLE MINDY FEE HONORABLE BARRY JOZWIAK 10 HONORABLE MARK KELLER HONORABLE DAVID MALONEY, SENIOR 11 HONORABLE BRETT MILLER HONORABLE DAN MOUL 12 HONORABLE MICHAEL PEIFER HONORABLE PARKE WENTLING 13 HONORABLE TED HARHAI, MINORITY CHAIR HONORABLE MICHAEL DRISCOLL 14 HONORABLE PATRICK HARKINS HONORABLE SID KAVULICH 15 HONORABLE WILLIAM KORTZ HONORABLE GERALD MULLERY 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Any reproduction of this transcript is prohibited without authorization 25 by the certifying agency SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 2 1 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: 2 REPUBLICAN CAUCUS GREG RAFFENSPERGER 3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CHERYL GRUBER 4 ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT SCOTT LITTLE 5 PUBLIC RELATIONS 6 DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS 7 STEVEN MCMULLEN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 3 1 I N D E X 2 OPENING REMARKS By Chairman Gillespi 4 - 5 3 OPENING REMARKS 4 By Representative Sonney 5 5 TESTIMONY By Mr. Kim Stolfer 6 - 14 6 TESTIMONY 7 By Representative Saccone 15 - 17 8 TESTIMONY By Mr. Randy Santucci 17 - 24 9 QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS 24 - 31 10 TESTIMONY 11 By John Kline 31 - 34 12 QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS 34 - 37 13 TESTIMONY By Matt Hough 37 - 40 14 QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS 40 - 49 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S ---------------------------------------------------- 2 CHAIRMAN GILLESPIE: Okay. Good morning, everybody. 3 We're going to go ahead and call this meeting of the House Game 4 and Fisheries Committee to order. This is going to be a public 5 hearing, relevant to two bills. This is a session day, so 6 there are going to be members coming and going throughout with 7 other obligations they will have at the beginning of the week 8 here. 9 Representative Harhai --- or Chairman Harhai is on 10 his way, but the first thing I'd like to do is have the members 11 introduce themselves, starting to my left. 12 REPRESENTATIVE FEE: Hi, I'm Mindy Fee. I'm from 13 the 37th District, which is Northern Lancaster County. Thank 14 you. 15 REPRESENTATIVE KORTZ: Good morning, everyone. My 16 name is Bill Kortz. I'm from Allegheny County, 38th District. 17 Good to see Kim here today. 18 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Mark Keller, the 86th 19 District, which is all of Perry and part of Cumberland. 20 REPRESENTATIVE MALONEY: Good morning. Dave 21 Maloney, the 130th from Berks County. 22 REPRESENTATIVE HARKINS: Good morning, everyone. 23 Pat Harkins. I represent the 1st District in Erie. 24 REPRESENTATIVE MULLERY: Good morning, Jerry 25 Mullery, 119th Legislative District in Luzerne County. I'm SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 5 1 going to apologize early. I have to leave for a voting meeting 2 at 11:30. 3 REPRESENTATIVE WENTLING: Good morning. Good 4 morning, Parke Wentling. I represent the 17th District which 5 includes Lawrence, Mercer, Crawford and Erie County. 6 REPRESENTATIVE JOZWIAK: Barry Jozwiak. I represent 7 a big section of Berks County, the 5th District. And I'll be 8 leaving in a half hour also for another voting meeting. 9 REPRESENTATIVE DRISCOLL: Mike Driscoll, 173rd, 10 Philadelphia. 11 CHAIRMAN GILLESPIE: Okay. At this time, we do have 12 one of the prime sponsors, Representative Sonney, who is the 13 prime sponsor of House Bill 223. Curt, would you like to say a 14 couple of words regarding your bill? 15 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 I'd just like to thank the Committee for holding the hearing on 17 the bill. House Bill 223, as all of you know, is a bill that 18 would allow the use of semiautomatic rifle. The bill is 19 restrictive in caliber to 223. It's restrictive in magazine 20 size to a magazine of five and one in the chamber, so it would 21 be six rounds, and it's very restrictive in the animals that 22 can be taken. So like all of you, I look forward to hearing 23 the testifiers this morning then. And again, I'd just like to 24 thank you for holding the hearing and hopefully moving the bill 25 forward. Thank you. SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 6 1 CHAIRMAN GILLESPIE: Thank you, Representative 2 Sonney. Representative Saccone has the other bill that we'll 3 be discussing this morning. He is at a press conference, and 4 when he arrives, we'll give him an opportunity to make a few 5 comments, as we did with Representative Sonney. 6 Okay. We're pleased to have several organizations 7 testifying for us today. The first is the Allegheny County 8 Sportsman's League. Kim Stolfer is here on their behalf. And 9 I believe Randy Santucci of the Unified Sportsmen's is joining 10 him. Welcome, gentlemen. You may begin when you're ready. 11 MR. STOLFER: Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, members 12 of the Game and Fish Committee, I appreciate the opportunity to 13 appear before you today. Regardless of what you think or how 14 traditionalists and the public feel about using semiautomatic 15 guns for hunting, autoloaders and AR style modern style 16 firearms are becoming more and more accepted in hunting camps 17 in all but one state in the country, here in Pennsylvania. 18 On page 18 of the Hunting Digest, hunters are 19 greeted with this statement. Firearms and devices unlawful to 20 use. It is unlawful to hunt with one, automatic and 21 semiautomatic autoloading rifles and handguns, two, air or gas 22 operated rifles and handguns. We, Pennsylvania, are the only 23 state in the nation to have this general prohibition. The only 24 one, yet virtually every major firearm manufacturer is 25 producing these guns in suitable calibers, powerful enough for SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 7 1 deer, hogs and bears. 2 In every hunting camp, someone will invariably begin 3 extolling the virtues of his personal choice of big game rifles 4 where it's sure to start an animated discussion. While there 5 are several action types in common use today, two of them, the 6 bolt action and semiautomatic rifles comprise the vast majority 7 of rifle actions that hunters carry into the field, except here 8 in Pennsylvania. 9 Modern rifle selection for today's hunter for all 10 practical purposes will really boil down to just two things; 11 The shooter's style of hunting and the game he intends to hunt. 12 Currently in Pennsylvania, we allow semiautomatic shotguns to 13 be used for hunting small game, migratory birds, turkey and 14 deer in special regulation areas. Ammunition specific without 15 incident. What that means is, is that in Southwestern 16 Pennsylvania, you can use a single projectile 12-gauge 17 semiautomatic shotgun, without a magazine restriction, and in 18 Southeastern Pennsylvania's special regulation area, you can 19 use buckshot. Now, the more populated area is Southeastern 20 Pennsylvania, and yet, you use buckshot, which is more 21 widespread, shoots nine balls, and yet, in the Southwestern 22 part of the state you can only use single projectile, but not 23 vice versa. The logic escapes me. 24 After all, I am a firearms instructor, certified to 25 teach law enforcement, military and civilians. We all know SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 8 1 about the technology, and my testimony states the different 2 types and everything. Suffice it to say, that semiautomatic 3 rifles have been used in hunting ever since 1886. We can thank 4 the German Frederick (sic) Von Mannlicher for his contributions 5 to the firearms science. The arguments that once favored bolt 6 actions have fallen to the wayside because modern technology 7 has continued to incrementally overcome semiautomatic rifles' 8 original shortcomings, which really centered around feeding and 9 accuracy. 10 Two styles of semiautomatic rifles are typically 11 used for hunting. The first is a traditional style hunting 12 rifle and the other one is with a military lineage including 13 the AR style rifle. These rifles are reliable. After all, we 14 equip our troops with the select fire versions, past and 15 present, of some of these modern style rifles. They also are 16 very accurate, as they have proved and continue to prove again 17 and again in various shooting competitions throughout the world 18 up to and including 1,000 yards. 19 Once hunters get past the aesthetics and cosmetics 20 and untruths surrounding the guns, they discovered that 21 semiautomatic rifles are wonderful firearms for hunting, 22 offering a plethora of advantages. It is important to note 23 that semiautomatic guns are those which fire the round in the 24 chamber, extract it, eject it and load a new round into the 25 chamber if one is available in the magazine and then require a SARGENT'S COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. (814) 536-8908 9 1 separate pull of the trigger for each shot.