Interviews and Commentary
Ron Perlman on"GOOD DAY NEW YORK," March 22, 1994
Interview by Cheryl Washington
Transcribed by Pat Paone
Washington: Ron Perlman is perhaps best known as the Beast with a heart in the TV series "Beaty and the Beast." Well, now he's done several films since then, and stage productions too. His latest film is called "Cronos," and he joins us now to tell us all about that production.
Washington: (Turning to Ron) Thank you so much for coming to "Good Day New York." It's really good to see you. I know you just got off the plane.
Perlman: That's right.
Washington: So you're feeling a little tired, yes?
Perlman: Yeah.
Washington: Just a tad.
Perlman: The old joke - I just flew in and my arms are very tired.
Washington: So I guess you didn't get a chance to see the Oscars last night since you were in flight.
Perlman: Ah, well because I started off in LA and because they are on at six p.m., I got a chance to see a good portion of them, and the limo had a TV in it on my way to the airport, so I got to see a little bit more of it. Then I had a ticket agent at American Airlines - - can I say that on the air? I guess so.
Washington: You just did. It's all right.
Perlman: That filled me in on best picture, so I pretty much was up to speed. I was able to sleep on the plane, you know, knowing that the western world was safe.
Washington: Absolutely! Now your new film, "Cronos" is pretty much up to speed, I must say. I saw it over the weekend. Very enjoyable. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the film and its message.
Perlman: Okay. "Cronos" is the first work of a Mexican director named Guillermo del Toro. I don't really know how I got involved in the film other than the fact that del Toro was a premiere, special effects makeup artist in Mexico, before becoming a director, and since special effects makeup is a club to which I am a charter member, he knew more about me than I knew about him. He sent me a copy of the script. It was incredibly interesting in terms of most scripts that you read are driven by story or character. This was heavy on story, but more heavy on imagery than anything that I'd ever read in the recent past, and that always makes for more interesting films than it does for interesting reading. I subsequently met del Toro. We had a one hour dinner where he talked about his visual sort of - vision of the way this film would be realised and I just knew, after spending some time with him, that he was capable of real cutting-edge film making.
Washington: Capable indeed! I mean, my heavens, it's already won the 1993 International Critics Award at the Cannes Film Festival, and it's picked up nine Ariels, which is the Mexican equivalent to the Oscars. Why don't we take a look at you in action in the film "Cronos." [turns to camera] Ron Perlman. [A clip from "Cronos" is shown]
Washington: Ron, interestingly enough, you're the only American in this Spanish-orientated film.
Perlman: Right.
Washington: Why do you think that they selected you?
Perlman: I don't really know.
Washington: Besides the fact that you're so good for it.
Perlman: Well, thank you. Thank you. Well, I don't know. I think that - - the film takes place in 1996 and del Toro had a sort of shrewd - sort of vision three or four years ago when he was writing this thing, that NAFTA was going to become a reality. So he, sort of subtitles this the first Post-NAFTA Mexican Film and chose to have a lot of foreign influences as part of the fabric of the society at this particular time and place. So, to have an American, sort of, you know, peripherally involved in this action, in a sort of unsavoury way was, you know… I won't interpret that, but … [Smiles]
Washington: You are going to star in another foreign film, as we begin to wrap, "The City of Lost Children", which is going to be filmed in Paris.
Perlman: Right.
Washington: And you're also doing "Fluke" for MGM.
Perlman: Right.
Washington: You've got a full plate.
Perlman: Got to keep it that way. Baby needs a new pair of shoes. [Laughs]
Washington: [Also laughing] Well, in that case, keep on working. We want to thank you so much, Ron, for coming on the show.
Perlman: Pleasure.
Washington: Good to see you again. [They shake hands]
Perlman: Good seeing you.
Washington: The name of the movie is, once again, "Cronos" and it opens March 30 right here in New York. Thanks Ron Perlman for coming to "Good Day New York."
Perlman: Thanks for having me.
CRONOS (1993) Compiled by Pat Paone In an interview with Caroline Vie for Fangor, #132, Guillermo del Toro explains that he began directing when he was eight years old, using a Super- 8 camera to create his own monster movies.
"My first film was made with some Planet of the Apes action figures and a lot of ketchup," he recalls. "For something that was made by an eight year old kid, I guess it was an OK movie. Unfortunately, I burned the print by showing it too many times."
Del Toro went on to direct several 16mm shorts before applying for Dick Smith's Advanced Makeup Course so that he could learn more about the special FX he loved so much. He formed his own company called Necropia which quickly became very popular in Mexico. Del Toro then branched out into writing and directing episodes of a TV horror anthology called Hora Marcada which was considered to be the Mexican Twilight Zone.
By 1985 del Toro was anxious to do a horror feature film and the first ideas for Cronos were born. It took him two years to write the script and then came the problems of financing the movie which was eventually done with the help of producer Bertha Navarro.
"After going through a lot of degradation and suffering, I finally put the money together," del Toro says. "My family were very supportive, and my wife and father-in-law worked on the effects! Bertha was also very influential; she did a wonderful job getting the movie made and helping promote it when it was finished."
Necropia was in charge of the special FX although del Toro himself didn't work in this area.
"I knew I couldn't get involved in the effects," he points out. "I had to put all my energies into directing the movie. The shoot lasted eight weeks and a lot of that time was devoted to effects. The Necropia guys were really wonderful and did an enormous amount of work. Most of the time we only used one camera. We didn't have a lot of money, but we did have fun."
Caroline Vie goes on to explain that the only technical aspect del Toro took charge of was the device itself; though he didn't design it, he did a great deal of sculpting work on its interior. Because of the lack of money and time, the crew wasn't able to do silicon impressions of the gears and were forced to make them from real metal. The resulting creation, though small on screen, was as big as a small car in real life - and just as heavy.
Cronos is also a rather unique vampire movie in that it doesn't focus on sex.
"I thought it would be interesting to have a vampire who's motivated purely by hunger," del Toro says. "I don't like the erotic approach to vampirism. As a horror fan I have this theory that all vampires are sexually dead, and I don't like the Casanova type of bloodsucker. The monster is the hero for me, and in that sense, he shouldn't be moved by a perversion but by a real physical need for blood. In fact I wanted a vampire that would be pitiful, in the same way that Terence Fisher's monsters were."
Finding the right actors was also an important task for the young director. Fortunately Ron Perlman and veteran actor Federico Luppi were enthusiastic about the script and signed on quickly.
"I fall in love with my actors, and that's why they like me, " del Toro says. "They appreciate that I take time for them. Ron Perlman loved the script, and I was so happy to work with him. He's the only actor who could play such a brutal character and infuse him with a soul."
A joint interview with Ron Perlman and Guillermo del Toro at the Carnegie Deli by Gersh Kuntzman of the New York Post, March 30 1994, describes Perlman as del Toro's artistic doppelganger, adding that this is metaphorically speaking, as Perlman is lanky where del Toro is plump, and reserved where del Toro is impetuous.
Kuntzman reports that in Cronos, Perlman plays Angel, a brawny underachiever who just wants a nose job.
"The character is a tribute to what Ron plays best - the fragile monster," del Toro says. "He is great at playing enormous men who appear beastly, but are more human than the human characters. I have always been a huge fan of his, so when I first met him it was like a date thing. I even combed my hair."
Ron Perlman and Guillermo del Toro Photo by Francis Specker, New York Post, March 30, 1994
Kuntzman points out that despite his director's praise, Perlman is a supporting player in Cronos, which centers around a spider-like device which transforms Jesus Gris, an aging antique dealer played superbly by Argentinian star Federico Luppi, into a youthful vampire.
"I never wanted to be the guy that everything hinges on," Perlman says. "When I did my first film, Quest for Fire, I discovered that the best role is to be the friend of the lead. The more color you bring the less he has to do - except be heroic and take the heat if the movie doesn't do well."
The $2 million budget for Cronos makes it the second-highest-budgeted film in Mexican history, (just after Like Water for Chocolate), but the budget is minuscule by American standards. "They saved money on catering," Perlman jokes. "But it cost them in the long run. This film had the highest toilet paper and Pepto Bismol budget I've ever seen on any film."
Kuntzman goes on to say that instead of a bloody axe fight, Cronos gives you Jesus Gris driving to work and opening his store in the morning. Instead of Dracula in a big cape with bright yellow eyes and computer animation, we see the bully preparing a meal.
"Jesus' reactions remain human throughout the entire transformation," Perlman adds. "That's because the entire movie is reality-based. We know what this guy's everyday life is like. Ultimately, that makes us much more engaged."
Mexicans tend to view terrible things with a dark half-smile," del Toro says. "We view death with an irreverent quality. Even in the darkest moments, there is a smile. From when I was a tiny kid, I have always lived in the world of fantasy, If I wasn't in film, I'd be in a mental hospital."
In April 1993, Cronos swept the Mexican Academy Awards, taking nine top Ariels including: Best Film, Best Director, Best First Feature and Best Screenplay. It was also awarded the Grand Prix of the Semaine de la Critique at the Cannes Film Festival that year.
When it was released in America in 1994 Cronos was favourably received by the US critics. Rene Rodriguez of the Miami Herald, Feb 11, 1994, describes the movie as "lean and focused, never condescending towards its subject matter, and often genuinely creepy. More gothic than gory (although there are violent moments), it is a remarkably assured and original feature debut by Guadalajaran writer-director Guillermo del Toro, who shows a passion for making his audience squirm." She goes on to say that it is also handsomely mounted and well acted.
Inquirer movie critic, Steven Rea calls Cronos a stylish, witty take on the vampire myth, and says, "What's nicely surprising about this atmospheric first feature is that it's also about intergenerational love; the bond between a kindly, cardigan-wearing gramps and his quiet, resilient granddaughter."
Dave Kehr in the New York Daily News, 30 March 1994, says "del Toro's film is a refined, artistically ambitious effort, exquisitely photographed by Guillermo Navarro and enacted with immense dignity by Argentine star Federico Luppi." Of Ron's performance he says, "Perlman is both creepy and ingratiating as the sadistic henchman who dreams of someday getting a nose job and polls his victims on what sort of profile they prefer."
In the New York Times, 24 March 1994, Janet Maslin describes Cronos as "a very stylish and sophisticated Mexican variation on some age-old themes. This film's reflective, even stately style elevates it from the ranks of ordinary stake-through-the-heart vampire dramaturgy, turning it into something much more exotic." She also says, "Mr Perlman brings a tongue-in-cheek scariness to the exaggerated role of the thug."
The following interview was conducted with Ron Perlman by Bruce Fessier from the local newspaper THE DESERT SUN, during the Palm Springs International Film festival, 1993.
"FEW 'BEASTS' IN PERLMAN'S LATEST ROLES"
THE REAL THING: 'LARGER THAN LIFE' ACTOR SETTLES INTO NEW CAREER PLAYING REAL PEOPLE.
After establishing a career with roles requiring four hours of makeup a day, Ron Perlman is finally getting to show the real him.
He appears sans heavy makeup in "Cronos" and "Romeo is Bleeding" in the Palm Springs International Film Festival today (Sunday) and he'll appear in the TNT cable production of "The Cisco Kid" Feb 6.
That's a switch from the larger than life parts he became known for in the TV series "Beauty and the Beast," and the films "Quest For Fire" and "The Name of the Rose."
"I made a concerted effort the last two years to try to find scripts that are more suited to the real me," Perlman confesses, "and I've been successful."
Still he enjoyed finding ways to play those earlier roles for which "there are no role models."
"You just have to go back to the writing," he says. "It's an exercise more of imagination than some of the other skills required in acting."
As the epoquent Beast, for example, he developed his ideas for his character solely from the TV script, as opposed to a clue from the real individual or actor Jean Marais in the 1946 Jean Cocteau film.
"The writing is so specific, so provocative, that's your road map."
Perlman earned a Golden Globe and two Emmy nominations for "Beauty and the Beast" and other offers to play larger than life characters followed.
"I never really sought these roles out, they just sought me," he explains. "But I have a real affection for taking the abstract and off-beat path and trying to find some truth and reality. I've been very fortunate not being born looking like Tony Curtis. I've had to find my ways through other avenues and it's been very rich and rewarding." His performance in Beauty drew him to 28-year old "Cronos" director Guillermo del Toro. "Guillermo del Toro had been, prior to having been a writer and director, one of the foremost makeup artists in Mexico. He inhabited a world I was not a stranger to and he was very educated to my work."
Del Toro sent Perlman a letter asking him to play a brutal, slow-witted guardian angel of an elderly antique dealer who discovers a means to eternal life in "Cronos." Later, Perlman met del Toro in Los Angeles and "was even more taken with him."
"I would call this the first chapter in the second half of my life because I have since become dear friends with this fellow."We're collaborating on a second screenplay and I think 40 or 50 years from now he's going to be considered one of the greats of the film world and I feel grateful to be there when he's starting out."
And in an article by Anthony DePalma from the New York Times, 20 March, 1994, Ron Perlman said, "There are going to be people who hate the film, who are offended by all the blood, who don't want to work hard to get what they would get from the subtleties. But as far as I'm concerned, it's a world- class gem of a film."
CRONOS (1993) A review by Helen Chavez Cast: Federico Luppi (Jesus Gris), Ron Perlman (Angel de la Guardia), Claudio Brook (Dieter de la Guardia), Margarita Isabel (Mercedes Gris), Tamara Shanath (Aurora Gris)
Written and directed by Guillermo del Toro. Dialogue in Spanish and English, with English subtitles Plot Summary In the year 1536, an alchemist running from the Inquisition builds what is to become known as the ‘Cronos’ device, a golden, jewel-like scarab of whirling mechanisms and vicious needle-like legs that imparts to anyone who owns it the boon – or curse – of eternal life.
But not only does it imbue immortality, but also a thirst for human blood, a fear of daylight, and a gradual change from humanity into a creature that lives in the shadowed world of the vampire.
Centuries later in 1997, ageing antique dealer Jesus Gris (Federico Luppi)and his grand-daughter Aurora (Tamara Shanath) discover the device hidden in a statue, and Gris is accidentally wounded by it. Slowly but surely he discovers the benefits of the Cronos device, feeling and looking younger, more virile. But he also discovers its drawbacks – a lust for blood, and the slow but irrevocable sloughing of his skin as he becomes more and more addicted to the ‘gifts’ of the mechanical scarab.
But unbeknownst to Gris, there are others looking for the device.
Dying business tycoon Dieter de la Guardia (Claudio Brook) has spent many fruitless years looking for the statue that he knows contains the device, and when word reaches him of such a statue in Jesus Gris’ shop, he sends his brutal nephew Angel (Ron Perlman) to retrieve it.
But Gris has by this time already found the ‘Cronos’ device, and his discovery puts into motion a spiral of terror and violence that can only end in disaster, as he slowly descends into a world where he craves the salty taste of human blood and becomes a creature whose skin - like the alchemist before him - becomes ‘the colour of marble in moonlight’ …
Angel de la Guardia (Ron Perlman)
Angel de la Guardia is a thug. Big, brutal and foul-mouthed, he reluctantly helps his dying uncle Dieter de la Guardia to run his business empire. His uncle lives in a sterile environment behind heavy steel walls, his visitors have to wear masks and he keeps parts of his diseased organs in formaldehyde.
Angel finds his uncle overbearing, obsessive and threatening, and his secret wish is for the old man to die and leave Angel his empire. But the slow realisation that the ‘Cronos’ device could extend his uncle’s life indefinitely begins to percolate into Angel’s consciousness, and he starts to make plans of his own …
But Angel de la Guardia has an Achilles heel – his appearance. He is vain about his looks to the point of narcissism, and he is convinced that his nose is the only flaw in an otherwise faultless visage.
When he visits Gris’ antique shop and buys the statue, he looks around as the elderly dealer wraps up his purchase.
"I love these mirrors!" he exclaims, furtively examining his nose.
He charms Aurora with an impromptu guessing game involving a piece of chewing gum, then he surprises Gris and Aurora by asking them their opinion on something. Intrigued, they watch as he brings out several nose silhouettes and asks them which one is best. Gravely, they tell him their choice and he is thrilled, saying,
"Thank you very much - you don’t know how important this is to me!" Highly delighted, he exits the shop, statue in his grasp and his choice of new nose decided.
But his uncle is far from delighted when he discovers the ‘Cronos’ device has been removed from the statue, and things go from bad to worse when de la Guardia Senior realises Gris has already used the device.
Angel decides to kill Gris and prevent his uncle from acquiring the device, and the plan goes well, Gris being pushed over a cliff in his car by Angel, who mutters and curses with the effort, and finally manages to single- handedly push the car, happily humming ‘Auld Lang Syne’ to himself as he does so.
Later, he is found sitting semi-clothed on his bed, reading a pamphlet and listening to a tape on plastic surgery, happily picking his feet and smelling his fingers. He is hugely self-absorbed, and when his uncle demands his presence over the intercom he answers politely – but the expletives spill out in frustration in private, his resentment of his uncle and his bullying ways eating into him like a parasite.
His uncle takes his anger out on Angel in a purely physical way – he smashes Angel’s nose with his walking stick, Angel cringing like a whipped puppy, a bully cowed by an even greater bully. He cowers and whines, and continues to do his uncle’s bidding.
But when Gris returns from the dead, a showdown is inevitable – and it costs all of them dear. Gris, now physically changing into an other-wordly creature, faces Dieter de la Guardia, and, along with his grand-daughter who has helped him throughout his tribulations, manages to leave the old tyrant dying in a pool of blood.
When Angel discovers his dying uncle he is overjoyed. He cannot contain his delight, yelling ‘Yes, YES!!" his body dancing with triumph, fists clenched as though ready to take on the world.
But his joy is short-lived – when he confronts Gris and Aurora, he surprisingly comes off worse, and his already battered nose issmashed once again, his face now covered in a grotesque mask of blood. With a howl of anger, he chases the now-immortal Gris and the little girl up onto the roof - and there his fate is sealed … Awards
Academy Awards, Mexico, 1993 Golden Ariel – Guillermo del Toro for Best Film. 7 Silver Ariels, including Best Director, Best Original Story and Best Screenplay, all by Guillermo del Toro.
Catalonian International Film Festival, Spain, 1993 Best Actor – Federico Luppi Best Screenplay – Guillermo del Toro
Guadalajara Mexican Film Festival, 1993 DICINE Award – Guillermo del Toro
Havana Film Festival, 1993 Coral Award; Best First Work – Guillermo del Toro Coral Award; Best Film Poster – Pedro Meyer
Brussels International Festival of Fantasy Film, 1994 Silver Raven – Guillermo del Toro
Fantasporto, 1994 Audience Jury Award – Guillermo del Toro International Fantasy Film Award; Best Actor – Federico Luppi International Fantasy Film Award; Best Director – Guillermo del Toro
Fantafestival, 1995 Best Direction – Guillermo del Toro