Challenges and Choices for the UK: International Development
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Transcript: Q&A Challenges and Choices for the UK: International Development Ian Birrell Columnist and Foreign Correspondent Peter Kellner President, YouGov Claire Melamed Director of Poverty and Inequality Programme, Overseas Development Institute Clare Short Chair, Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative; Secretary of State for International Development (1997-2003) 28 April 2015 The views expressed in this document are the sole responsibility of the speaker(s) and participants do not necessarily reflect the view of Chatham House, its staff, associates or Council. Chatham House is independent and owes no allegiance to any government or to any political body. It does not take institutional positions on policy issues. This document is issued on the understanding that if any extract is used, the author(s)/ speaker(s) and Chatham House should be credited, preferably with the date of the publication or details of the event. Where this document refers to or reports statements made by speakers at an event every effort has been made to provide a fair representation of their views and opinions. The published text of speeches and presentations may differ from delivery. 10 St James’s Square, London SW1Y 4LE T +44 (0)20 7957 5700 F +44 (0)20 7957 5710 www.chathamhouse.org Patron: Her Majesty The Queen Chairman: Stuart Popham QC Director: Dr Robin Niblett Charity Registration Number: 208223 2 Challenges and Choices for the UK: International Development: Q&A Question 1 A few of the panel mentioned the triumvirate of defence, foreign policy and development. I was just wondering if you could comment on issues like trade and education, particularly, that are both aspects of foreign policy that both have a massive influence in Britain's standing overseas, and you would see those being involved in development. Question 2 I think we have a twin problem. On the one hand, we are addicted as a nation to the operational, to crisis responses in foreign policy, vastly at the expense of upstream, structural responses. On the other hand, we have no organizing narrative through which we approach international development. Almost with no exception, the points that you've raised – transnational organized crime, corruption in government – they all have their roots in one thing, which is criminality. So I'd be interested in your views on, if you were to take a twin-track approach of getting more structural in our approach and having an organizing narrative through tackling criminality, which would give all the departments that you've talked about a common thread to organize against, how that would work. Question 3 It would seem to me intuitive that the more bilateral aid or development is granted, the more that we would benefit, because it would be obvious that the funds were coming from the UK. I've understood about half of our development budget goes through multilateral organizations. So how is the government held to account for the correct use and the benefits that we get? We've seen committees bringing in corporate finance officers, challenging them on their tax policies, etc. Does that happen? Is it an area that is monitored and government is held to account? Ian Birrell Education, I think, is a very interesting thing, because Britain has developed a fantastic education sector at home which is a really strong part of the British brand, whether it's the secondary school education, the private education or the university education. It has, of course, been hit badly by the visa policies, which threaten slightly to undermine the future of it. Personally, I've always thought one good way, if we're going to have a lot of money spent on aid, is to give it to British universities to offer as free scholarships to people in the developing world, which seems to me to work on many levels. In terms of criminality, I would have thought it all comes down to one word, which is governance. Everyone should be striving to have the best possible governance in developing countries. It's not a panacea because we know that actually child health outcomes can vary and it's not just governance which is the answer. But governance seems to be at the root of many of these issues, whether it's by creating a better business environment, whether it's by clamping down on criminality, whether it's by improving accountability and getting better public services. That's why I feel so strongly that we give so much money to countries who have the most appalling governance. Thirdly, multilaterals, there is an issue there. There's very little scrutiny of people like the World Bank, people like the World Health Organization, people like the European Union. European Union admin costs are twice what DFID allows and yet we still pump money into there. Huge amounts of the money recently has gone on the Turkish sewer system, for instance, which is a way of helping their accession into the EU. This is what happens to our aid money, while we preach about helping the poor in the developing world. 3 Challenges and Choices for the UK: International Development: Q&A There is a bit of a scam going on and there are a lot of questions. Should the World Bank still be always turning left on a plane rather than turning right, when they fly around the world? Is that a good use of our aid money? Peter Kellner I'd like to pick up on the operational, structural [indiscernible]. I agree actually with everything that Clare said, except for Palestine, and the second half of Ian's remarks. Let me give a particular example: piracy off the coast of Somalia. It's not been in the news for the last couple of years. There's a reason for that. The EU organized Operation Atalanta. It was physically organized out of Britain, out of Northwood, and working with the shipping companies to have shipping lanes which were protected, it put a stop to it. It also involved some helicopter attacks on some of the pirate bases. But the real solution over time is to give youngsters in Somalia a route into adult life where it is seen to be better not to be criminals, pirates or any other form. It's true that that requires governance, but it requires a lot of other things. It requires education, it requires health, it requires trading opportunities. So it seems to me – and I picked on that one example; one could pick many around the world – when you say actually, what should we (either Britain, the EU, the World Bank or whatever) do, if one actually looks at any real living, major international issue, it seems to me facile to say it's bilateral versus multinational. It's military versus development. It's all these things come together. I'm not going to dispute, Ian, your things about EU administration. But I just ask the question – maybe I just amplify my remarks to Clare – the EU, Britain playing a large part in it, supports a great deal of education, food, housing in Gaza. I think both the Israelis and the Palestinians would be astonished to regard this EU support as bolstering occupation. I also think that in practice, and I'm not saying the administration is absolutely perfect, if you were to disaggregate what goes on in Gaza into separate programmes (British, German, French, Italian, Spanish or whatever), I really think it would end up far worse. I think most people in Gaza are really grateful that the EU is stopping their lives being even nastier than it already is. Clare Short I agree that if people are suffering desperately in the occupied territories, you can't turn your back. But if you simply spend a lot of money on humanitarian relief that doesn't make their lives okay but it stops them dying and being desperate, but you do nothing about the political situation, then you're propping it up. That is my point. The question of the expenditures is a factual one that everyone can check. On trade, there has been some progress. The launch of the last trade round, the Doha round, was meant to be a development round. It hasn't been completed and has been a failure, but there's been a lot of pressure to give more trade access to the least developed countries. There's the Everything but Arms initiative of the European Union and so on. So the poorest countries, their trade access has improved. DFID has an influence on UK policy to achieve that end, was one of its achievements. On education, this is very important, about whether you should be in Nigeria or Rwanda or Ethiopia. The single most powerful intervention you can make in any country to promote development is to get a generation of children educated, including the girls. Girls who have been to school transform their country as they grow. They marry later, have less children, are better at increasing family income, at getting their own children to school, at accessing healthcare. So if some people are living – the Nigerian ruling class is a kleptocracy, it misuses the oil money and yet there's lots of poor people. Should we just 4 Challenges and Choices for the UK: International Development: Q&A say we don't like the government so we won't do anything? Or should you look for interventions that will both bring a bit of relief to people who are poor but also bring long-term change? I think intelligent interventions do that. Similarly, in Ethiopia, it's very authoritarian but it's not having famines anymore.