Feminism, Psychology and Social Justice: a Possible Meeting? an Interview with Michelle Fine
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City University of New York (CUNY) CUNY Academic Works Publications and Research CUNY Graduate Center 2015 Feminism, Psychology and Social Justice: A possible meeting? An Interview with Michelle Fine Karla Galvão Adrião Universidade Federal de Pernambuco How does access to this work benefit ou?y Let us know! More information about this work at: https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_pubs/595 Discover additional works at: https://academicworks.cuny.edu This work is made publicly available by the City University of New York (CUNY). Contact: [email protected] Psicologia & Sociedade, 27(3), 487-493. INTERVIEW FEMINISM, PSYCHOLOGY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE: A POSSIBLE MEETING? AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHELLE FINE http://dx.doi.org/10.1590/1807-03102015v27n3p479 by Karla Galvão Adrião Universidade Federal de Pernambuco, Recife/PE, Brasil Michelle Fine is a Feminist Psychologist Resear- The following interview takes place in May cher and has contributed strongly in the past two deca- of 2015 at the CUNY Graduate Center in New York des to the Qualitative and Participatory Methodologies City. Fine talks about the intersection of Psychology field, with special attention to Participatory-Action- and Feminism and their relation to social justice and -Research (PAR). Her research in Social Psycholo- qualitative methodologies. In the Brazilian context, it gy and Education puts into question the positions of is rare to define a field as Feminist Psychology. Yet power and privilege, concepts such as social justice/ within the field of Social Psychology there is work that injustice, the intersectional reading of gender, class, focuses on social justice, critical Social Psychology and race, generation, and the notion of solidarity. research as a right (Appadurai, 2006). Fine talks about her research and work with the Public Science Project Fine completed her undergraduate degree at (www.publicscienceproject.org) in the United States Pennsylvania State University, where she enrolled and, specifically, the concepts and experiences related in one of the first women’s studies courses in the to both Psychology and Feminism such as solidarity, country. Her PhD is in Social Psychology from democracy, injustice and community activism. Teachers College, Columbia University. Fine has worked as a visiting scholar at the University of New KGA Feminist psychology emerged as a distinct Zealand in Auckland and was a Fulbright scholar at area of research and practice in the 1970s. Although the Institute for Arab Studies at Haifi University. She many psychologists made feminist contributions befo- is currently a distinguished Professor of Psychology re this time, the field was formalized in the wake of se- and Urban Education at the Graduate Center of the cond wave feminism, both in England and in the U.S. City University of New York (CUNY), and co-founder How do you think these two fields of Critical Psycho- of the Public Science Project (PSP), a participatory logy and Feminist theory work along side one another? community based research organization that produces MF Let me tell you the pieces of Feminist critical scholarship in social policy, social movements, Theory that I rely on to do Critical Psychology and educational equity and human rights. how it relates to my upbringing. My mother is the Although she has countless books and articles youngest of 18 and I’m her youngest. When I was published, only two are translated into Portuguese: growing up, she was very depressed. I think that from “Para quem? Pesquisa qualitativa, representações e an early age, I learned that silence and sadness have a responsabilidades sociais” (Fine et al., 2006), and “A lot of wisdom and that different people have different prática da liberdade: pesquisa de ação participativa da contributions to make. In many ways, I felt it was my juventude para a justiça na educação” (Fine & Fox, job as the baby in the family to make sure everybody’s 2014). voice was heard, as it was easy to think my father knew Among other awards, Fine received the 2013 everything. He was wonderful, but him and my mother American Psychological Association Award for Dis- had a very traditional relationship. I think that from an tinguished Contributions to Research in Public Policy, early age I felt like the translator, advocate, critic and the 2012 Henry Murray Award from the Society for lover of both. When I went to college and got exposed Personality and Social Psychology of the APA, the to feminist ideas, then there was a number of light bulbs 2010 Social Justice and Higher Education Award from that went off. One of them was that we could rename the College and Community Fellowship for her work everyday experiences as injustice. It was amazing to in prisons and the 2011 Elizabeth Hurlock Beckman me that we could talk about marital rape, date rape Award for her mentoring legacy over the past twenty- or oppression of women as though those weren’t just -five years. natural conditions, but that they were unacceptable. 487 Adrião, K. G. (2015). Feminism, Psychology and Social Justice: a possible meeting? An Interview with Michelle Fine. I used to laugh to think if my grandmother, whom I questions, whose knowledge counts and where can never knew and who had 18 children, that if she ever we trouble the material that we gather? Who owns heard of marital rape, would she just laugh? Like, the information afterwards and how can we create “that’s what marriage is, right”? So, Feminism was products that are of use, both to theory and to local amazing there. From a combination of Marxism and social movements or communities? I don’t think Feminism, it was very important to realize that, over feminist methods are appropriate solely for questions time, we all have a situated perspective; we see the about women. However I do appreciate that, in the world from where we sit. If you’re lucky, you can movement, questions of women’s lives and their move over and see it a little differently, but where bodies, oppression and laughter all got lifted up. we sit matters. Science had been produced from what KGA There is a Project called “Psychology’s Donna Haraway (1988) calls, a “God side view.” That Feminist voices” (www.feministvoices.com) that is is, from above as though it were objective. I started to coordinated by professor of History of Psychology, understand that multiple perspectives matter and that Alexandra Rutherford and team, at York University, some points of view were privileged as objective and Canada. It shows Feminist Psychologists in U.S. and some were demined as subjective. Actually, they were Canada, and their influence to the Psychology field, all informed and naïve. Furthermore, the privilege of including an interview with you and others. Besides, the God’s eye view was a problem: to view people in the handbook “International Feminisms Perspectives in poverty, women, immigrants or any marginalized on Psychology, Women, Culture and Rights” group from the perch of privilege is to distort and also (Rutherford et al, 2011) they ask if Psychology and to do violence, which we would call epistemological Feminism as different fields, can help each other, and violence (Teo, 2008); to see mostly damage instead if one influences and helps one more than other. What of energy, possibility, laughter, irony and humor. I do you think about these reflections? Do you think it’s became friends with Paulo Freire in 1980’s through necessary to define a field of Feminist Psychology? education, and I began to understand his work on critical consciousness. Specifically, his work on the MF I’m not sure which word is being questioned. word and the world, as well as our obligation to do The mainstream field of Psychology has done a very work beside and with people rather than on or about poor job looking at questions of power and difference. them. A lot of feminist commitments to epistemology Many of us have tried to intersect the field with a are very central to our work. We have a situated critical lens around personhood, politics, subjectivity, perspective, the notion of participation of various epistemologies and methodologies, and the activism points of views matters intimately, in terms of the and the practice. I think within Feminist Psychology, all questions we ask, the methods we use and who owns of those coming together can happen. Within Feminist the data and that reflexivity matters. Who I am, why Psychology, hopefully there is a critical look at power I’m asking these questions and thinking hard about and gender, yet it’s not just about gender. It becomes what I’m not asking, who I’m not seeing, who’s being a placeholder for intersectionality, for thinking about excluded as well as humility. There are different ways subjectivity, politics and subaltern epistemologies. to have knowledge. People in different positions have I think in the beginning, feminist psychology was knowledge. The more oppressed you are, the more adding content: violence against women, childcare, you know. You might not have a specific language reproduction, abortion, and sexuality. Now it has really for it, but you know that something is wrong with emerged to be taking a critical look at power, method, the systems in which we live. The more privilege you epistemologies and the relationship between politics have, like myself, the harder it is to see what’s wrong. and activism. In this way I think it is an important I can walk through the world with few obstacles and so placeholder. Feminist Psychology is different from it’s hard for me to see why so many people are tripping Feminist Sociology or Feminism because we are unless I spend time talking to them about how they interested in subjectivities, relationships and actions were born with their shoes tied together so that they as well as Feminist Theory.