OPENING of STUDENTS PARLIAMENT the ACTING

OPENING OF STUDENTS PARLIAMENT

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mrs Peulich) took the chair at 10.07 a.m. and read the prayer.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Ladies and gentlemen, students, parents, teachers, members of Parliament and helpers, welcome to the Students Parliament. It is wonderful to see it so widely supported yet again.

As you have quickly realised, and I know many of you have been working on your topics for some time, there are a number of things that are common to your life at school and life at the Parliament — there are bells, there is usually someone in authority above you, and there is hopefully lots of learning.

I hope you find the day enjoyable, productive and educational and that you get an insight into the workings of this special place. I commend you for taking part.

I acknowledge a parliamentary colleague sitting in the gallery, the Honourable Bill Forwood, a member for Templestowe Province, who is here to support his school.

The rules have been adequately covered and we do not need to cover them again. For those of you who are not keen followers of Parliament, I am Inga Peulich, the member for Bentleigh, and I particularly welcome one of the schools in my electorate. I have been a member of Parliament since 1992 and an Acting Speaker since 1996. Today my job is to chair the debate and to try to be as impartial and fair as I possibly can. When we open up questions to the whole of the chamber I will endeavour to spread them around so that everyone has an opportunity to ask questions and get a special feel of the place.

I also acknowledge the Serjeant-at-Arms, Jensen Lai, and thank him for his assistance this morning.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 1 TOPIC 1 — Violence on television does not corrupt young people. They can tell fact from fiction.

Presenting school — McKinnon Secondary College

Challenging school — St John’s Greek Orthodox College

Mr LAZAR — We at McKinnon Secondary College strongly believe television violence does not influence the way youth act or behave. This issue is so commonly debated, but does it deserve the attention it is getting?

The debate concerning violence in the media was flaring long before television was introduced. Some 2500 years ago Aristotle suggested that drama was effective and beneficial because of catharsis. This means that the audience can become psychologically involved with the story while still knowing that it is fictional. When the aggression climaxes among the actors, there is a release of pressure in the audience. According to Aristotle this leaves them cleansed and uplifted, making them less likely to act in a violent way. So violent drama is not instilling violence in the audience; it is leaving them less likely to act violently.

Surely we must reconsider our decisions to make television the subject of this debate? We are asking if television is instilling violence into young people while a child can walk into a toy store and be greeted by 50 different models of toy guns all saying, ‘Buy me!’. We accuse television of being an inspiration for violence when someone under 15 years of age can walk into a video store and hire an M-rated movie that contains much more violence than you will see on television, not to mention the bad language.

However, there is the odd exception of proper violence on television. We have Traffic Accident Commission ads. But then we ask: would we rather have more people speeding and suffering the consequences? These ads are a good thing. They discourage dangerous driving. The Quit ads, while being pretty disgusting, serve as a good reminder for smokers about what they are doing to themselves. These ads are an exception and a very good one to make.

Then we move on to computer and video games. Graphic technologies let game designers show violence with a realism that has never been witnessed in games before. The games also put a gun in a child’s hand and let him or her shoot the computer-animated characters. Children actually get the chance to be the killers!

Ratings advice tells parents the level of violence in a show. The advice is good, and if parents are concerned they should take notice of it. Accordingly, if the ratings are followed there is absolutely no chance of violence on television influencing the child.

Children are able to tell fact from fiction. When Road Runner drops a bomb on Coyote, yet Coyote is back walking around 2 minutes later, children know the situation is not real. They are not stupid. Television acts solely as a source of entertainment. It is not a model for how people should live their lives. As mentioned before, it is one of the last sources — —

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member’s time has expired. I call on members of St John’s Greek Orthodox College to pose questions.

Mr KOTSOPOULOS — McKinnon Secondary College talked about movies being full of violence. But television is full of movies that are violent.

Miss SEGEV — McKinnon Secondary College believes ratings are also applied to movies. When the ticket is handed in at a cinema, people will be told if they are under the age limit. People are also given advice about ratings, and if that advice is not followed it is their problem.

Miss TSIMIKLIS — Plato was Aristotle’s student. He said the opposite. He said drama can give the wrong kind of expression to young people’s minds. What is your opinion?

Miss MILLER — Aristotle and Plato both had great impact on the structure of society, but it is also violence in reality that affects children. There are a lot of wars and violence in the world. Television

2 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 is only a machine and cannot force people to act violently. Wars are not caused by people watching too many Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Miss NICOLAIDIS — The Quit and Transport Accident Commission advertisements are scary but not violent. They are used for good purpose. McKinnon Secondary College is not proving that violence does not harm people. What do you say about that?

Miss DIAS SANTILHANO — It was said that violence on television does not have an effect on people. It was not said that violence did not have an effect on people.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time allotted for questions to the challenging school has expired. Questions are now opened up to the rest of the chamber.

Mr HOPKINS — Aren’t the toy guns you mentioned in your speech advertised on television?

Mr LAZAR — You are right that toy guns are advertised on television, but only water pistols.

Miss McMAHON — Lots of children copy things they see on television because usually they have happy endings. But life is not always like that. Take wrestling on television as an example. I have relatives who like to re-enact scenes from the wrestling programs. If they were to get hurt, it would be because of the material shown on television. What is your response to that?

Miss MILLER — Television cannot be blamed for the wrestling shown on it. Wrestling takes place in real life, and people could go to a wrestling match and then act violently as a result. Television cannot be blamed for the violence. Wrestling is a sport that takes place anyway, and if people are going to act violently they will act violently and television cannot be blamed.

Miss ARONFELD — It is commonly known that children are not always supervised when watching television. Isn’t it true to say that when children see their favourite personality being violent on television they admire that character and want to imitate it?

Miss SEGEV — McKinnon Secondary College believes if a child watches a television show that is rated PG in Victoria it means the child should be watching it with a parent. If it shows violent content — —

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member’s time has not expired but the time allotted to the topic has.

I commend the opening teams for their performance. I have been chairing the Student Parliament for some years and the standard continues to improve. Well done.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 3 Topic 2 — Mandatory sentencing will help to reduce crime by deterring people from committing crimes.

Presenting school — Banksia Secondary College

Challenging School — Kerang Technical High School

Miss NOEL — We, the team from Banksia Secondary College, firmly believe that mandatory sentencing will help reduce crime by deterring people from committing crimes. Indeed, the imposition of mandatory sentencing will send a message to would-be offenders that a tough stand is being taken to reduce escalating crime rates. Such a system would ensure that consistency exists in sentencing offenders and appease public concern about crime and punishment.

For too long now we have seen repeat offenders receive light sentences that do nothing to deter them from criminal activity. Most Australians are sick and tired of criminals who break into their homes and steal their cars and anything else that is not nailed down.

The legislation is harsh but it is designed to punish and deter. We may feel a tinge of remorse when young offenders go to jail, but the law cannot and should not discriminate.

The community expects consistency from our judicial system if it is to work effectively. As crimes are on the increase we need to send a strong message to the community that offenders must do the time if they commit the crime.

Let us not forget that mandatory sentencing already occurs in the area of drink-driving. Automatic cancellation or suspension of licences occurs where drivers break the road laws. No leniency or discrepancy occurs from judges. The same road laws apply to drivers regardless of whether they are Sam Newman or Mr or Ms Average.

Both Western Australia and the Northern Territory have adopted mandatory sentencing with some degree of success. A criminal who offends three times can expect an automatic jail sentence in both of those states.

Recent news polls have shown that 60 per cent of Australians approve of mandatory sentencing, so it is time for our politicians to listen to the community and strive to make our country a safer place.

Mr TREACY — You say there has been a degree of success in Western Australia and the Northern Territory with this law. What exactly is the success rate?

Miss McMAHON — The success rate is about 45 per cent in Western Australia and the Northern Territory.

Mr HEWITT — In what way will mandatory sentencing deter offenders when for minor crimes they are put in jail with more serious offenders?

Miss McMAHON — We, the team at Banksia Secondary College, believe people are sent to jail to punish them and to teach them not to offend again. That is why they are sent to prison.

Miss TAYLOR — How fair is mandatory sentencing on Aborigines and the poor, who are the most disadvantaged and the most affected by this law?

Miss McMAHON — Could the honourable member please repeat the question?

Miss TAYLOR — How fair is mandatory sentencing on Aborigines and poor people, who are the most disadvantaged and will be most affected by this law?

Miss McMAHON — We have facilities to help out Aborigines and other poor people with money problems, which is why they will not feel the need to commit crimes such as theft.

Miss JAMES — How do you compare automatic suspension of licences to putting a young offender in jail for stealing a pen?

4 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Miss NOEL — First they have a warning, then something harder. The third time they get an automatic suspension. They had a warning.

The ACTING SPEAKER — That is being saved by the bell. However, feel free to complete the sentence on the ringing of the bell.

I would like to open the topic to the rest of the chamber but before I do that I acknowledge a parliamentary colleague, the honourable member for Ivanhoe, in the gallery.

Mr LAI — Yes, mandatory sentencing may reduce crime because criminals are sitting in jail, but what happens when they get out? Most will continue a life of crime. Don’t you think mediation, community service or counselling might have a better effect?

Miss McMAHON — After offenders are let out of prison they are able to use those services and facilities, but it is up to them to access them and make use of them. It is their lives.

Mr CHISHOLM — Most would-be offenders have the intention of not being caught, so any sentencing does not deter them from committing the crime. What do honourable members say to that?

Miss WARREN — We ask the honourable member to rephrase the question.

Mr CHISHOLM — Most offenders do not care whether they are sentenced or not because they have the intention of not being caught. So mandatory sentencing does not really have an effect.

Miss NOEL — I have a relative who once broke the law for drink-driving. When that person lost his licence he stopped drinking and it changed his life.

Mr DUNN — Sometimes people steal because they have to, not because they choose to. Wouldn’t the government be better off focusing on helping poor people?

Miss McMAHON — We have facilities for these people. They can go to the Salvation Army and other agencies like that, who will give them things they need. If you need them, they will give them to you, so that is beside the point.

The ACING SPEAKER — The time allotted for the topic has expired. I would like to commend the presenting and challenging teams and other members who asked questions.

Please do not be shy. Time passes very quickly, and if you are planning to ask questions you have to seize the opportunity.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 5 TOPIC 3 — The price of success is greater for indigenous sports people.

Presenting school — Collingwood College

Challenging school — St Joseph’s College, Mildura

Mr CHUNG — In all sport the price of success is great for everybody. The years of training, long hours and tremendous stress on the body all contribute. The names Cathy Freeman, Nicky Winmar and Michael Long are so often in the media you might think it is easy for Aboriginal people to make it to the top in sport. However, Collingwood College believes the price of success has been greater for indigenous sports people.

In many Aboriginal communities making it through childhood is an achievement in itself — the infant mortality rate is three to five times that of other Australian children. They also suffer from many diseases, such as pneumonia — the incidence among Aboriginal people is 80 times the national average. To top that off, poverty, poor living conditions and a lack of schooling all contribute to Aboriginal children being disadvantaged.

Many children are good at sport, but only when they reach adolescence do they start to develop some potential. However, many indigenous kids do not get the same opportunities. Nine per cent of indigenous children will stop attending school at or before the age of 14 years, and only 49 per cent of 15 to 19-year-olds are still attending school compared with 90 per cent of non-indigenous youth. Most of our skill development in sport comes from facilities and activities at school. However, a high percentage of Aborigines find access to facilities and teachers almost possible.

For many successful indigenous sports people distance has been a big hurdle. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, the Krakouer brothers and Michael Long have all experienced not only the problem of distance but also the trauma of being away from their families and cultures and surrounded by a white man’s world. The Krakouer brothers were forced to choose between family and football. That choice was very difficult for those boys, because they were only teenagers when they had to move away from home. The trip was made even more difficult because their family did not have much money and could not afford to make the trip. You may argue that many kids are forced to move away from home in order to follow their careers in sport, but consider this: moving away from home, family and culture is entirely new and often intimidating.

Our last point is one that not everyone is aware of — the pressure on Aboriginal people to represent their people. Think about Cathy Freeman. She came out and voiced her opinion about the federal government’s treatment of her people. Did you notice how much attention was placed on those few sentences? Michael Long was criticised by many people after speaking out about racism in football. Once Aboriginal people are successful they are under pressure to speak out about the injustice and suffering faced by their people.

We are glad to see that programs are getting better — Evonne Goolagong-Cawley and Gerard Neesham are representing young indigenous people, but until the big issues such as health, education and poverty are addressed we wonder whether it will ever be a fair competition.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Before I call on the challenging team to ask some questions I would like to acknowledge the presence of the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, shadow Treasurer and honourable member for Brighton, in the gallery. Welcome and thank you for your support.

Miss O’HALLORAN — It is true that Cathy Freeman recently spoke about the problems Aboriginal people face in Australian society, such as the stolen generations. However, it is also true that since becoming famous she has until now remained silent about those issues — a period of six or seven years. Can Collingwood College explain why it took so long for her to voice her opinion? Isn’t it true that Cathy Freeman’s sporting rise to fame was not difficult and that she had been pressured by activists, political groups and the media to make controversial statements?

Mr SPEARRITT — It is true that she has only now voiced her opinions, but she was silent for so long because of all the pressures on her. It is hard for someone like her to speak on such issues given all the pressures, such as the media attention.

6 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Miss LOXTON — We heard the claim of Collingwood College that Michael Long was criticised by many people after speaking about racism in football, yet it seems to ignore the fact that the Australian Football League responded to that by introducing the strongest anti-racism laws of any sporting code in the world. Isn’t it true that once Aboriginal players step onto a football field they are protected from verbal abuse more strongly than any other racial, religious or cultural groups? Isn’t the price of success at least easier for Aboriginal sports people?

Mr HORVATH — They are protected on the football field, but once they step outside the field they still get racist taunts spoken against them.

The ACTING SPEAKER — It is difficult for people to answer questions on their feet. It is hard for ministers and other members of Parliament to do so, so don’t be anxious about feeling uncomfortable or taking a little bit of time to think. People are regularly nervous in this chamber. Well done to the people fielding the questions.

Miss SIMMONS — Isn’t it interesting that Collingwood College mentioned the Krakouer brothers in its tale of difficulties faced by Aboriginal footballers, talking about the problem of distance. However, St Joseph’s College is wondering whether distance was a problem for Jimmy Krakouer during his many trips transporting dangerous drugs across the Nullarbor from Western Australia to Victoria. For that he was imprisoned for a total of 18 years. Does Collingwood College believe the crime was caused by the separation from his family and low socioeconomic status?

Mr SPEARRITT — That question appears to have little to do with sport.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I invite members from other schools in the chamber to pose questions.

Mr HENLEY — Collingwood College said the government treats Aboriginal people unfairly. In what way does the government treat Aboriginal people unfairly?

Mr DUNN — John Howard has refused to say sorry. All sorts of other injustices have been caused to Aboriginal people — namely, the stolen generations and mandatory sentencing — and John Howard refuses to change the laws despite the fact that it directly affects many young Aboriginal people.

Miss CLAYTON — Isn’t it true that indigenous people are not the only people affected by difficulties in sport, including distance, cost of training and travel?

Mr HORVATH — They do not have to face such things as poverty and racism.

Miss BALACHANDRAU — Collingwood College spoke about how Aboriginal people have to leave their cultures and families, but isn’t the price of success just as great for people of other cultures and religious backgrounds?

Mr DUNN — Other cultures are not as close-knit as the Aboriginal people. They are close to their cousins, aunties and uncles, and moving away from their families is a problem. They are able to take only one or two people from their culture with them, and they are not used to that.

Mr MANSELL — An article in the Age of 5 March states that more than 50 Aboriginal footballers are on the AFL senior lists and that although Aboriginal people constitute less than 2 per cent of the population of Australia, Aboriginal players make up 8 per cent of elite footballers. If the road to success for Aboriginal sports people is as difficult and full of obstacles as Collingwood College says it is, how does it explain those remarkable figures?

Mr SPEARRITT — Yes, that is true. Football is one of the only sports that Aboriginals can get into if they are poor — other than games like darts. What about tennis, for example? Tennis and other expensive sports are not like football, because for football all you need is a footy and a place to kick it around.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Well done to both the presenting and challenging teams. The time allotted to this topic has expired.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 7 TOPIC 4 — Young people under the age of 25 need to be encouraged to be on local councils.

Presenting school — Parkdale Secondary College

Challenging School — Brighton Grammar School

Miss WALSH — Madam Acting Speaker, local government councillors are often perceived to be middle-aged or elderly people with experience in life, social issues and politics. The popular media regularly portrays such stereotypes — for example, in the current shows Sea Change and Grass Roots on the ABC.

We at Parkdale Secondary College believe local councils should reflect constituency demographics in their representation. Therefore, young people under the age of 25 need to be encouraged to become councillors to express the opinions of their age group and to ensure that their needs are addressed.

In many local government areas people under 25 make up one-third of the population. Young councillors would understand the interests and concerns of youth. They would also relate to the language and subcultures of this group.

Society is changing rapidly. While middle-aged councillors may think ovals and playgrounds are needed by young people, the reality is that it is computer games, skateboard ramps, movies and so on. Young councillors are needed to bridge the generation gap mind-set as councils plan community resources for the future.

Young people have the rest of their lives to look forward to. They are the future leaders and managers of local government. The earlier these skills are acquired, the better it will be for the ongoing development of councils.

Of course, older councillors know more about their communities, but this knowledge must be shared and passed on. We are in no way suggesting that older councillors’ opinions and actions are not appreciated or valid.

The simple fact is that most younger people feel as though they are not qualified to serve on local councils. They feel they are not experienced enough, that there would be too much pressure to carry out demanding representative roles or perhaps they simply cannot be bothered. Those attitudes must change if we are to have the best possible representatives on community councils.

With councillors we need a variety of ages so that decisions that are made take into account the feelings of all age groups in the community.

Young people may be inexperienced, but this inexperience can be offset by the ability to learn things quickly. Young people will only remain inexperienced while they are unable or unwilling to learn. If they were encouraged to serve on local councils they would learn the ropes very quickly and be in a position to participate in local government to make decisions that are in the best interests of the whole community, ensuring all age groups would then be represented.

We recently interviewed Mr Arthur Athanasopoulos, the 24-year-old mayor of the key City of Kingston. He reflected on how honoured he felt when 60 per cent of his constituents voted for him and believed he could do as good a job on council as an older person. Young role models such as the mayor of Kingston and the mayor of Port Phillip are providing the impetus for others to follow their example and nominate for local council.

Therefore, after considering all this, I am sure you will agree that the synergy created by combining the energy of young people and the experience of older ones would benefit any community that they serve together.

Mr HENLEY — Parkdale Secondary College insinuated that people under the age of 25 make up one-third of the population and that therefore they should they should constitute one-third of the membership of local councils. As most young people are not financially independent, I ask whether Parkdale Secondary College advocates salaries for local councillors who are under the age of 25?

8 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Mr HOPKINS — No, we don’t.

Mr LUTJEN — There are already many councillors who are under 25, so why is there still a need for encouragement?

Mr GALLIERS — There is no statistical evidence to prove that there are plenty of younger people already on community councils. The only way to find out the truth of that would be to ring up every single council.

Our findings indicate that the proportion of people in our part of Melbourne who are under 25 is 20 per cent less than in some other areas, so the percentage of people under 25 might be as high as 50 in some areas.

Mr MOUSTAFA — Madame Acting Speaker, Parkdale Secondary College stated that young councillors are inexperienced. Do its members then suggest that Senator Stott Despoja of South Australia does not exhibit experience and competence in her job?

Mr HOPKINS — As we have stated quite clearly, young people have more enthusiasm and energy and have more open minds and a better understanding of younger people. They bring fresh approaches to council chambers. There may be older people there too, and they can pass on knowledge to the younger members. So, in the end, we keep on learning and moving on. That is the way to get a good council.

Mr SHEPPARD — Madam Acting Speaker, Parkdale Secondary College has implied that membership of local councils should be constituted according to the percentages in the population. Do its members suggest that minorities such as the mentally unstable should be proportionally represented on councils?

Mr HOPKINS — No, we are not advocating that people with mental disabilities should be on local councils. We are simply saying that younger people have as much right as older people to be on council — and they can do just as good a job.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I now open questions to the chamber.

Miss MARCH — Isn’t it true that most people under 25 are still completing tertiary education? And are they not encouraged to take part in the running of the community in other ways?

Mr GALLIERS — Yes, they are encouraged in other ways to take part in various areas of government such as voting, the signing of petitions and such. And yes, many of them are absorbed in tertiary education. Nevertheless, it is a very worthwhile goal for them to also attempt to make it into government, because then they can give back to their communities at the same time as they are learning. That might put a strain on them, but it is a very worthy goal for those who can achieve it.

Mr HENLEY — Parkdale Secondary College stated that local councils need representatives with energy, optimism and open minds. Are they saying older people do not have those qualities?

Miss RICHARDSON — The reality is that councils are used by interest groups and that political parties use councils to blood future candidates. The younger you are, the less likely you are to be politically tainted.

Mr STUDD — Why should young people participate in council work when there is a vast range of activities outside council work in which they could participate?

Mr GALLIERS — As I stated before, there is a wide range of activities that teenagers and other under 25 can participate in. However, most people are motivated by the wish to give something back to the community and to serve the people in some governmental capacity. Those who end up serving as councillors will, in the view of most people, get the chance to aid their communities. Most people would get a great deal of satisfaction out of that.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 9 Miss NEAVE — Even if young people were able to be local councillors, do you think they are mature enough and that people would listen to them?

Mr HOPKINS — Yes, younger people can enter the council and older people can then transfer as much knowledge as they have learnt in 50 years to a youth councillor in a matter of weeks, months or a year. Their knowledge can be passed down and used to help improve the community.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I wish to commend the challenging teams for a wonderful example of some penetrating questions — and there have also been some good answers.

Before calling on the Clerk to announce the next teams and topic, I welcome the members of Point Gellibrand Girls’ Secondary College. I am glad they were able to be with us.

10 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 5 — Careers counselling and work experience are the most valuable parts of the school curriculum in these days of high youth unemployment.

Presenting school — Kilvington Girls’ Grammar

Challenging school — Point Gellibrand Girls’ Secondary College

Miss EASTON — High youth unemployment is one of Australia’s most significant problems. In Victoria in August 1999 some 8900 fifteen to nineteen-year-olds were unemployed — a rate of 17.1 per cent. To counter this crisis, students must leave school armed with flexibility and skills required in our ever-changing work force. It is extremely important to have career counselling and work experience as part of secondary curriculum. They can make a real difference to the future lives of young Victorians.

Firstly, high youth unemployment comprises 20 per cent of Australia’s 15 to 19 age group. In 1991, 11.4 per cent of Victoria’s 15 to 24-year-olds were out of work for 52 weeks or longer. This is very daunting for the young unemployed. Schools can prevent more students joining the job queues, and careers counselling has a major role.

What is careers counselling? Careers counselling aims to help students acquire the knowledge, attitudes and skills for achieving a better career direction in life. The careers adviser takes a more holistic approach towards the student, focusing upon who you are and the interests of each individual. Students are made aware of new employment opportunities and learn the techniques of job searching, interview strategy and presentation. Careers staff ensure that the school curriculum covers the Mayer competency skills such as team work, oral communication and problem solving — essential skills for gaining and maintaining a job in the work force. The advice of the careers department can lead to few students joining the unemployment queues as staff explain employment options to students.

The high unemployment level in Victoria does not mean there are not enough jobs; it can also mean not enough skill is demonstrated for each job, although employers rate the attitudes of an employee higher than skill much of the time. Careers counselling and work experience are really effective ways of gaining the right attitude and practising the skills needed to join the work force.

Thirdly, work experience in schools enables students to gain more understanding of what being in the work force is like. Future employment links may be made and students can realise whether or not they are on the right career path. Either way, students save valuable time and money by learning where their interests may lie. Having careers counselling and work experience helps to keep the youth of Victoria with open minds for the future.

Who should be the focus of careers advice and work experience? Firstly, early school leavers are a most vulnerable group in our society. Work experience is very important for potential early school leavers, as it gives them the opportunity to try out their choices.

Secondly, mainstream students may gain work experience through compulsory school programs. Students are briefed on what to expect and taught fundamental aspects — that is, resume writing and positive attitudes.

All students need to learn skills for the casual jobs or careers they have in mind. University students cannot afford the time to learn skills they could easily be trained for through work experience at school. Early school leavers must be skilled before they head for the labour market to avoid joining unemployment queues. Work experience and careers counselling are the most valuable parts of the secondary school curriculum; they impact on all students.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I call on members of the challenging team to pose the questions. It was remiss of me not to have acknowledged the honourable member for Dromana, who has now left the gallery. He was here to support the schools in his electorate.

Miss FRITH — Point Gellibrand Girls’ Secondary College believes that careers counselling and work experience is important, but to say that it is the most important, and to link it with solving the problem of unemployment is false. Kilvington Girls’ Grammar is trying to shift the responsibility of the

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 11 government to the schools so schools are blamed not only for things such as drugs and vandalism but youth unemployment.

Having the best work experience in the world is useless if the government does not provide enough jobs. Will you please respond to that?

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — Kilvington does not say it is not a government problem, but youth should learn those skills at school. When students are in year 10 they can leave school. We do not say there are not enough jobs because we do not know how many jobs are available. Our youth are not prepared enough in their skills to go out and find a job.

Miss SMITH — The American education system encourages all tertiary students to complete a general degree before specialising in a more specific degree well into their 20s. Why should Australian school children have such a heavy emphasis on vocational education in their early and mid-teens?

Miss BALACHANDRAU — Kilvington Girls Grammar feels that the careers counselling and work experience should be incorporated into the school curriculum. Therefore, students can get a general view of skills needed for the work force through their curriculum as well as through programs such as work experience and careers counselling.

Miss DEAN — Work experience in some cases can be a useful educational experience. Most students are not placed in jobs that resemble their career choice. They are given menial tasks heavily based on observation. Some students continue to work in their part-time jobs for work experience. How can the member from Kilvington say that that is the most important part of the school curriculum?

Miss NEAVE — When Kilvington says it is the most valuable it is because the students are given a chance to taste what it is like in the work force. It is not that they are going to get a job in that area because they may be working at places such as KFC, but it is to have the right attitude for going into the workplace.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I will open up questions to the chamber.

Miss MARCH — Is it not true that most 15 to 17-year-olds do not wish to have a job as their parents are able to support them through those years?

Miss NEAVE — Yes, it is true, but some students may like the independence of buying their own things. Their parents will give them more freedom because they think they are mature enough to cope with other things in life.

Miss ANDERSON — In the member for Kilvington’s speech we were led to believe that work experience and career counselling were the most important skills to learn in secondary school. Employer after employer has spoken out on nation-wide television and radio and in statewide newspapers. They want employees who are highly trained in numeracy and literacy. They definitely do not want to employ people who do not understand English in an English-speaking country. They will most likely fail in the big, wide world. Will the member for Kilvington please respond to the employers’ concerns?

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — As we stated in our speech, those skills — they are called the Mayer competency skills — complement and back up what we do when we go and see our careers counsellor and have work experience. They are taught from prep. to year 12, all throughout the school.

Mr GALLIERS — Is it not true that students who are committed to learning and who try hard at school will most likely get a job, so careers counselling is only really necessary for those who don’t know what they are going to do or those who don’t strive very hard at school?

Miss BALACHANDRAU — We feel that, as it says in our speech, attitude is a very important thing in getting a job in the work force, and therefore with the aid of work experience and careers counselling they can gain the right attitude for the work force and be prepared for what is expected of them when they do go out into the work force.

12 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Miss MILLER — Wouldn’t completing VCE be more important than having work experience where all you might do is serve coffee and photocopy things? Wouldn’t it have a bigger impact on whether you get a job?

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — VCE is in years 11 and 12. Usually you do work experience in years 9 and 10; and that is not for the rest of your school career, it is just one week.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time allotted to the topic has expired. I commend both teams, in particular the presenting team, which I think answered the questions pretty expertly. Well done, girls.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 13 TOPIC 6 — Victoria’s Legislative Council should be elected using proportional representation to make it an effective house of review.

Presenting school — Billanook College

Challenging school — Kilmore International School

Mr STUDD — Madam Acting Speaker, we at Billanook College believe Victoria’s Legislative Council should be elected using the proportional representation voting system.

The Legislative Council is made up of 44 members, each serving an eight-year term. Its job is to monitor the actions of the government and keep it accountable to Parliament. It must pass, amend or reject bills according to potential effectiveness, fairness and the voters’ overall interests. If the party in power in the lower house holds the majority of seats in the upper house, then most bills are likely to be passed without much scrutiny.

This was the case between 1996 and 1999 when the Liberal Party held 54 per cent, or 24 seats, in the Legislative Council. During that period of time 64 bills were passed without amendment, only one was amended, but none was rejected.

The result of this rubber-stamping was draconian legislation, such as the change to the role of the Auditor-General in 1997 and removing the independence of the Office of the Auditor-General by making it a privatised body. During November 1997 Kennett was also able to remove the rights of workers to sue under common law for negligence in the workplace.

Our Legislative Council is currently being elected using the preferential voting system. Every four years 22 members of Victoria’s Legislative Council are elected — one from each electoral district. As a result of using this system, between 1996 and 1999 the ALP held 14 seats, the Liberals held 24 and the Nationals held 6. Other parties held none.

According to a report from Brian Costar of Monash University, if we had used a proportional representation system for five 9-member districts in Victoria, it would have yielded the following results: the ALP would have held 21 seats, the Liberals would have held 16 seats, the Nationals would have held 4 seats and the minor parties would also have held 4 seats — a total of 45 seats. That shows that by using the proportional representation system we would gain a wider spread of political parties in our Legislative Council.

Currently there are only three different parties represented in Victoria’s Legislative Council. However, in the New South Wales Legislative Council, which is voted in using proportional representation, there are currently 13 different parties representing electorates, including such obscure parties as the Shooters Party and the Christian Democrats.

With a wider representation of parties and Independents, the major parties — the ALP and the Liberal Party — will need to win the support of the minor parties to pass or reject bills from the lower house. That means the decisions will be made mainly due to the votes of the members of the minor parties and will not be predetermined.

In conclusion, Madam Acting Speaker, using the proportional representation system would result in a broader spread of parties in our Legislative Council. Therefore, members from all parties would have an effect on the outcome of bills proposed to the upper house.

A higher level of scrutiny will be involved when reviewing bills and will make the house more effective. Hence, the decisions made will no longer be considered as rubber-stamped. Victoria’s Legislative Council should be elected using proportional representation to make it an effective house of review.

Thank you for your time.

Mr DE SOUSA — Madam Acting Speaker, if we were to follow the New South Wales Legislative Council method of proportional representation, would you be prepared to have obscure

14 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 parties such as the One Nation and the Shooters Party taking part in formulating foreign policies? Does Billanook College accept responsibility for parties such as those?

Mr LAI — Yes, we do.

Mr HURST — Does Billanook College realise Brian Costar’s report actually demonstrates the possible scenario of four minor parties holding the balance of power, which could result in blocking supply and preventing the smooth running of the state?

Mr LAI — Could you please repeat the question?

Mr HURST — Does Billanook College realise Brian Costar’s report actually demonstrates the possible scenario of four minor parties holding the balance of power, which could result in blocking supply and preventing the smooth running of the state?

Mr LAI — Yes, we do realise that.

Miss SCOTT — Would you agree that rubber-stamping has been effective in helping Parliament pass much-needed laws? Why or why not?

Mr DELACRETAZ — Rubber-stamping may have helped in passing laws that were required, however, it has also helped in passing many laws which we did not need — some of which are not helping our country or our state.

Mr DE SOUSA — Would you mind expanding on the last statement — such as?

Mr DELACRETAZ — Some of the bills which have been passed but which are not useful to the state would be the bills for the grand prix venue in Albert Park and things like that, and the bill for Kennett changing the role of the Auditor-General and making his office a privatised body. They do not help the way the state runs.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time allotted to the challenging school has elapsed. I open up questions to enable the entire chamber to ask further questions on this topical issue.

Mr HOPKINS — You stated before that the grand prix was unnecessary. Doesn’t the grand prix bring in much-needed money for the government?

Mr DELACRETAZ — The grand prix may bring in large amounts of money from tourism and the tickets, and so on. However, the grand prix track should not have been built in Albert Park because many people opposed it being built in that area.

Mr SHEPPARD — If the upper house had been using proportional representation over many years it might have been ready for situations in the past but not ready for the present, as no necessary laws would be passed.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Perhaps the honourable member could ask a question.

Mr SHEPPARD — Do you agree?

Mr COOPER — Could you please rephrase the question?

Mr SHEPPARD — If the house had used proportional representation over a lengthy time, the laws that are necessary might not be passed, which would make the house unprepared for situations at the time. Do you think that might happen?

The ACTING SPEAKER — I think the honourable member is saying it would create political instability. Do you agree?

Mr COOPER — Proportional representation does not in any way stop laws being passed. It makes laws be put under more scrutiny, which means the laws that are valid will be passed anyway and the laws that are not valid will be stopped or amended.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 15 Mr HURST — If the Shooters Party got elected to Parliament and had a right to have a formula in the vote, where do you think its members would stand on health and education?

Mr DELACRETAZ — The Shooters Party would make its own decisions about education and health based on its beliefs.

The ACTING SPEAKER — It is a topical issue, and I am sure we will hear much more about it in the media and Parliament. The time allotted to this topic has expired.

16 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 7 — Supervised injecting facilities for drug users are a risk to the community, but it is a risk that needs to be taken. Presenting school — Catholic College Bendigo

Challenging school — Minaret College

Miss KILEY — The Catholic College Bendigo believes supervised injecting facilities are a risk to the community, but it is a risk that must be taken. Every day on our streets people are dying from drug overdoses. Last year we lost 247 Australian people — that is approximately four people dying on our streets every week. They are people just like you and me — mostly young people with their whole lives ahead of them. Death from drugs has become such a frequent occurrence that one life does not mean much any more, but we believe every life is important and worth the risk of establishing supervised injecting facilities to save. Supervised facilities would also enhance the safety of our streets, beaches, parks and communities. Discarded needles can carry many viruses, including HIV, hepatitis C and hepatitis B and are a risk to the community. When parents are afraid to let their children go to the park for fear of their stepping on needles, that is when something has to be done. If supervised injecting facilities will reduce or stop needles being discarded in public places, why not try it? Detective Chief Inspector John McKoy, who recently retired as head of the drug squad, said he had reluctantly concluded that the steps were necessary. He said: This goes against my training, upbringing and beliefs, but I believe we have to look at these alternatives. We have to think about not what is best for ourselves or whether it might be wrong, but realise this is necessary as a community because it will save lives and make our streets safer and cleaner.

Safe injecting facilities have been tried all over the world and have been quite successful. The shadow Minister for Health, Mr Doyle, returned from a trip looking at heroin injecting centres in Switzerland, Sweden, Germany and the United States. Mr Doyle said that injecting rooms had worked successfully in other cities. In Switzerland alone the heroin death rate has been halved, permanent employment has been doubled and the criminal activity rate has been cut by 60 per cent. This should help influence Australia to go ahead and try the supervised injecting facilities. If safe drug injecting facilities are introduced it may help reduce peer pressure to take drugs and may take away the excitement and thrill, thereby reducing the number of new addicts.

Some prominent Australians are behind safe injecting rooms, such as Sir Gustav Nossal, the current Australian of the Year; Dame Elisabeth Murdoch; Sir Zelman Cowen; and six other leading community members. Recently they published a letter to the public in a daily newspaper backing the trial of safe injecting facilities. The letter states:

The proposed trial of supervised injecting facilities is another worthwhile attempt to improve the community and save lives. We believe there is a very good chance that this will be the outcome. Safe injecting facilities are just one more step in the fight. They may be regarded as a risk to the community, but it is a risk that must be taken. Miss ISMAIL — How can these injecting facilities be safe when heroin is such a deadly drug? Miss MARCH — The injecting houses are not encouraging drug use; they are simply creating a safer environment for the use to take place so that fewer deaths occur from using dirty needles or unsafe fixes. Mr DISLIOGLU — Isn’t the idea of safe injecting facilities contradicting current laws that make heroin illegal? Miss KILEY — The idea of safe injecting facilities is not to try to stop heroin from being illegal; we know it is illegal. People can be addicted, and if the facilities help people to stop using heroin or reduce the number of deaths it is worth the risk of establishing them.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 17 Miss TUFA — You mentioned earlier the people who were going along with the idea of safe injecting facilities. What experience do the people you have mentioned, such as Sir Gustav Nossal, Dame Elisabeth Murdoch or Sir Zelman Cowen, have on the issue of drug law enforcement? Miss MARCH — The people we have mentioned in our speech are not encouraging the use of drugs; they are simply encouraging the establishment of safe injecting houses to protect the community. These people are respected in the community and they believe their opinions may be respected enough to help so that injecting houses can be set up to reduce the death and crime rates and increase the employment rate in the community. Mr MAKHLOUS — If Mr Doyle was so impressed with the Swiss facilities, why has he stated on 774 ABC radio that they are not suitable for Melbourne? Miss KILEY — Could you please repeat the question? The ACTING SPEAKER — I think the honourable member said, ‘If the shadow spokesman for health, Mr Doyle, said they were so wonderful, why did he say they were not suitable for Victoria?’. Miss MARCH — He is saying they are not suitable for Victoria because the statistics on drug use are not accurate enough for us to say that there are enough drug users for them to be established. If drug use increases they would be appropriate because there would be sufficient people to use the facilities. Mr ELIKHIS — By installing supervised injecting facilities we, as a society, are essentially promoting the image that illicit drugs are acceptable. Would Bendigo Catholic College please explain what effect its members believe this will have on impressionable teenagers? Miss MARCH — These injecting facilities are not encouraging the use of drugs. Rather, they are appraising the use of them — that is, they are not encouraging the use of drugs by supplying these facilities, they are simply providing a safe injecting environment so that fewer people will die on the streets and fewer needles will be left exposed so fewer people in our community will be at risk from infection or disease. Miss NICOLAIDIS — Why waste money on these rooms for drug users and not use it on more important things that we need in the community, such as research on cures for deadly diseases? Why should the people who are doing wrong things receive this money? Miss SPURLING — These are not medical cafes or the like. They are a necessity. AIDS will be less prevalent if we get rid of the needles because they will not be stepped on by innocent people. Miss SCOTT — Aren’t the injecting rooms saying it is okay to do drugs? People will go to those places to be safe from overdosing, but we do not see how this is going to stop drugs. Could there be a possibility of drug-dealing in injecting houses? Miss MARCH — The injecting houses set up in Switzerland have got strict rules. Everyone is searched before being allowed to enter the buildings. If there are any drugs found on a person he or she is escorted to a police station that is within two blocks of the injecting house unless that person is actually going into the house to inject. Any person dealing or exchanging drugs for money or even gifts is taken straight to the police, so dealing or encouragement of people using drugs is forbidden. Miss NIXON — These facilities will encourage people who have not taken drugs before to take them as the facilities have been announced as safe. What do you say to that? Miss KILEY — The facilities are for people who are addicted to heroin and are not intended for occasional drug users. When young people start using drugs it is usually because of peer pressure or because it would be a wrong thing to do. The ACTING SPEAKER — That concludes the time for topic 7.

18 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 8 — The goods and services tax is unfair on low-income earners and pensioners.

Presenting school — Waverley Christian College

Challenging school — Benalla College

Miss SIM — Research shows that so far the goods and services tax (GST) that was implemented on 1 July has affected pensioners and low-income earners in a very negative way. Despite the 4 per cent increase in pensions, pensioners are still struggling to purchase daily necessities.

Even though some prices came down due to the introduction of the GST the majority of these were some luxury items that had a 33 per cent tax rate. Low-income earners would not usually be able to afford these items, nor are these items considered to be everyday purchases.

The basic necessity items — for example, clothing, shoes and all services — all went up in price. Pensioners and low-income earners require the basic necessity items in daily life to maintain their standards of living. However, due to the increase in prices, those people are going to be financially stretched to meet their normal commitments while still wanting a balanced lifestyle. Although the government increased the payment of pensions, the increase is not enough to compensate for the price rises of the necessary items.

Low-income earners require cars for travel, but with the increase in petrol prices it has become another financial strain for them. With barely any money to spare because of the GST low-income earners could be forced to find an alternative form of transport. Public transport is the only other major alternative, but with the GST the cost of that has risen too.

An article in the Herald Sun on 31 July stated that a family receiving a low income was promised an extra $66.25 per week, however those estimates have proved to be inaccurate. Low-income families only ended up with an extra $25 to cover GST in the household bills.

The bottom line is that the lower income earners were already struggling, and now that the new tax system is implemented it has created an even harder struggle for them to survive. Low-income earners do not benefit at all from the new tax.

Housing is another main issue with the GST, as all pensioners and low-income earners need a roof over their heads. Most pensioners and low-income earners cannot afford a house so therefore are dependent on rented and caravan accommodation. Household rents will increase by about 5 per cent. That is an awful lot for pensioners because they are only receiving an extra $12 per fortnight.

Pensioners and low-income earners face another increase due to the GST: gas and electricity charges. These people look likely to pay a minimum of 9.85 per cent and a maximum of 10 per cent more for gas and electricity. Pensioners and low-income earners do not have the money to pay for all these extra costs!

The average pensioner and lower income earner is much worse off after the GST. The added taxes on necessity items and services, such as clothing, rent, transportation and household bills, cause increased financial strain upon these people. The government had to implement extra bonus payments and percentage discounts on certain services to compensate for financial loss for these citizens. That would not be necessary if the new tax system benefited them. The 4 per cent rise in pensions by the government is not nearly enough to cover all the increased costs.

While we have been bombarded with government propaganda espousing the genuine benefits of the new tax system for all Australians, we question whether the typical case study of lower income families really does justice to the myriad of hidden costs. The new system now places added pressures on each and every Australian citizen, especially those with limited financial resources.

Mr ELLETT — Isn’t it true that lower income groups already receive substantial discounts on all service bills such as gas, rates, power and car registration? That being so, they now receive additional family payment assistance. Those discounts have not been stopped, have they? Isn’t it true that they also

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 19 receive further family benefits? Can you deny that the intent of extra payments and discounts provides a more even playing field?

Mr CHISHOLM — The extra payments — the 4 per cent on pensions and something extra for lower income earners — were not enough. For example, public transport now costs an extra 5 per cent due to the GST.

Mr BLACK — Waverley Christian College said that in the Herald Sun article a family was promised $66.25 but it only ended up with $25. It does not show how the Herald Sun got those prices. Did it take into consideration the increased family assistance that the government is providing to families that was clearly outlined in a booklet sent to every household in June? Also, in its argument, did it take into consideration the different lifestyles and expectations of pensioners?

Mr CHISHOLM — The Herald Sun definitely did take into account those factors.

Miss MURPHY — On the first page of the speech Waverley Christian College says ‘research shows’. We would like to know whose research shows this and how that could be possible after only two months of the GST being implemented?

Mr CHISHOLM — The Age, the Herald Sun and also lots of phone calls to the opposition. The opposition’s web site also shows this research to be effective.

Mr DOKOLAS — I do not think it is unfair to low-income earners because they get more pay in their pay packets at the end of the week, so it covers the GST loss.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Presumably the question is: do you agree?

Mr CHISHOLM — As I have already said the 4 per cent increase in pensions and the small increase for lower income earners is not enough to compensate for the goods and services tax.

Mr LUTJEN — If the GST is unfair, why was it voted in?

Mr CHISHOLM — The Liberal–National coalition did not have a majority in the Senate. They had to rely on the vote of the Democrats.

Mr LAZAR — Waverley Christian College stated that housing is now expensive. Has it considered the new home owners grant, which is significant when one realises that most people who cannot afford a home are first home buyers?

Mr CHISHOLM — There is an extra $12 per fortnight available for rent, and most lower income earners and pensioners have to rent. The extra home buyers grant is therefore not applicable.

Miss McMAHON — Waverley Christian College has talked about everyday items. What about items required by people for the longer term — for example, a new car. I understand the cost of a new car has dropped. Wouldn’t that mean people would make a saving?

Mr TAN — People do not buy a car every day. Normal, everyday items have risen. If people do buy a car they will pay less, but it does not apply to everyday items.

Miss MARSH — Doesn’t rent assistance offset the increase in rentals?

Mr CHISHOLM — Rent assistance may cover a small amount of the extra prices. However, items such as power bills have increased so the assistance does not compensate for the GST.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for the topic has expired. It was a good debate. Clearly the school has done a lot of research. I commend both sides and all of those who asked questions.

20 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 9 — Sports professionalism has led to a loss of sportsmanship.

Presenting school — Plenty Valley Christian School

Challenging School — Mount Scopus Memorial College

Mr CLARKE — Plenty Valley Christian School wants to convince the house about the truth in the sad, newly realised statement ‘Sports professionalism has led to a loss of sportsmanship’.

Sports professionalism is defined as competing at any level of any sport for a substantial financial reward. Sportsmanship means playing a game to the best of one’s abilities, respecting all others within the rules of the game.

Any person who is paid to compete in a sport is a professional. Just like a builder is paid to build, a cricketer is paid to play cricket. Competing at such a professional level provides a substantial financial reward. In addition, successful sports players may also be paid performance and sponsorship bonuses for individual and team success.

On 6 April Hansie Cronje was regarded by the world as a hero and a true sportsman. One day later the situation had changed dramatically. Hansie Cronje was charged with international match fixing, and on 11 April he was sacked from the South African cricket team.

In similar circumstances last month the former great and well-respected Indian cricket captain Mohammed Azharuddin was charged with accepting $85 million to throw a series of cricket matches. Even on our home turf, heroes such as the former Australian vice captain Shane Warne and batting master Mark Waugh have admitted to accepting $9000 for giving weather and pitch details to an Indian bookmaker.

This points to the destruction of sportsmanship, and it is happening right here in our own country. Sportsmanship is being ruined by the greed of sports professionalism.

In 1947 the Australian cricket team known as The Invincibles toured England. They are the strongest team Australia has ever produced. Any member of that side would have given everything to play alongside Don Bradman and represent his country. Today things are vastly different. Everyone who plays international test cricket is a professional. However, apparently this is not enough and some players want more. Matches were not fixed when money played no part in international sport. A win meant a win and a loss meant a loss. Today we cannot be so sure. Modern cricketers are being paid more and more, and it is the desire for more that is ruining the way sport is played today.

I turn now to the Olympic Games. Plenty Valley Christian School is not saying that all competitors are professionals and match fixers. However, it seems incredible that Australian athletes are now permitted to bet on themselves — to place money on their chances. This clearly opens the door for our Olympians to be involved in match fixing. Unfortunately our competitors may fall into temptation by betting against themselves and settling for silver and money rather than gold and their country’s honour.

Today’s athletes and competitors are victims of their own good fortune.

Miss ARONFELD — Plenty Valley Christian School has chosen to focus on the financial aspect of the loss of sportsmanship. Would it inform the house whether it believes there are any other factors that contribute to the loss of sportsmanship?

Mr CLARKE — There are other factors contributing to sportsmanship being ruined by professionalism, but money is the main one. Money and greed are changing players’ attitudes and leading them to cheat and ruin their professionalism.

Mr ELIKHIS — Plenty Valley Christian School gave several examples of cricketers who have been charged for match fixing and providing details to bookmakers. Would the school specify why it based its argument about the destruction of sportsmanship on four cricket players who in no way represent the thousands of athletes striving for success in the world?

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 21 Mr PARSONS — The school also used the example of the Olympic Games, which represent more than 20 international sports with thousands of competitors worldwide. Along with the example of cricket, they are adequate to prove the school’s case.

Miss BARRON — Plenty Valley Christian School has raised the cricket issue constantly throughout its speech. It informed the house of the corruption and greed involved in playing cricket. In its definition it did not state it would specifically target cricket. Therefore, would the school please explain why degradation in that specific sport illustrates a loss of sportsmanship?

Mr CLARKE — Cricket was used as an example because it is an international sport. The Olympic Games were also used as an example, so cricket was not the sole subject of the speech.

Miss JANOVIC — A major contradiction was made in the speech presented by Plenty Valley Christian School. It was stated that Australian Olympians may place money on themselves and settle for a silver medal and the money rather than the gold medal and honour. However, athletes train their whole lives to participate in the Olympics and would not sacrifice their chances for fame for several thousand dollars. In addition, by being able to place bets on themselves, Australian athletes are encouraged to perform at an even greater standard to obtain the gold medal, the money and sponsorship.

Subsequently, would Plenty Valley Christian School please explain in greater detail how placing money on oneself destroys sportsmanship?

Mr CLARKE — Placing bets on oneself can easily lead to the temptation of wanting the money. That could cause you not to want to do your best. For instance, if you were favoured to win a race and you placed a bet on yourself not to win, you would have the money. If you wanted to win more than you wanted the money, all you have to do is bet on yourself.

Miss WALSH — When watching professional sport, for example football or the Olympics, the sports people can always be seen shaking hands and congratulating the opposition. Are you saying this is not sportsmanship?

Mr PARSONS — The sportsmanship displayed on television is especially done for the media so that people can see that the competitors are supposedly behaving in a sportsmanlike way. The dirty side of things is done behind the backs of the media and the public so we cannot see it.

Mr DE SOUSA — The honourable members from Plenty Valley Christian School mainly spoke about Australian sports and athletes. Do they have evidence to show this is a feature in other sports or other countries?

Mr GARDINER — Cricket is an internationals sport and the Olympics are global.

Mr COOPER — Highly paid executives in many companies often receive huge and exorbitant payments for jobs, which may be hard to do but still do not deserve that kind of money. Sportspeople also get huge amounts of money, but instead of it being part of corporate life they are hounded for being unsportsmanlike. Would you agree that, although it is bad that they get huge amounts of money, we are treating them a bit harshly?

Mr CLARKE — We are treating the behaviour off the field harshly, not the behaviour on the field. It is the off-the-field behaviour, such as cheating and taking bribes, that is bringing about the destruction of sportsmanship.

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — Where do you cut off the restriction of sportsmanship? Is it on the field because that is where sport is usually played? Off the field is private.

Mr CLARKE — We think the way players behave on the field is separate from their behaviour off the field. However, now that what players do is so much in the media the private life is no longer private. It does affect play on the field.

22 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 The ACTING SPEAKER — The time allotted to this topic has expired. It has generated a lot of interest among the participants. I commend the presenting and challenging teams, all of those who asked questions and those who had prepared questions but did not get a chance to ask them — well done.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 23 TOPIC 10 — Although they cannot vote, young people have many opportunities to be active citizens.

Presenting school — Wycheproof P–12 College

Challenging school — Billanook College

Miss NOONAN — Wycheproof P–12 College will present the topic: although they cannot vote, young people have many opportunities to be active citizens.

Enrolling in the local annual play, doing the 40-hour famine, being involved in a student representative council, participating in the MS read-a-thon and Jump-Rope-for-Heart, buying the local paper at the local store — all these activities have one thing in common: they will make you an active citizen in the school and the wider community.

We take part in activities within the community simply by putting our rubbish in the bin or by buying something from the local shops.

Supporting the community or keeping the community clean helps us to express our feelings. Voluntary work around the community can help people realise who is active and who is lazy. By being an active citizen you will be noted for being a supportive Samaritan.

You will be able to see the rewards for your involvement in the local community. Being an active citizen does not mean you have to vote.

Some young people are not allowed to express how they feel because some adults think children’s or teenagers’ opinions do not count. You cannot vote until the legal age, which is 18. If we do not vote when we turn 18 we will be fined.

We get involved in being active citizens because we want to see our towns survive and grow. We want them to be places to be proud of.

Not being able to vote until the legal age of 18 may sound unfair, but helping the community will help us more in the long run.

Voting is not that much fun; it is confusing, and we cannot be sure either party is going to really help us in the end.

Younger people may not know who to vote for, so who cares if we cannot vote. Our time will come, but we can be active citizens in the school and the wider community.

We have a responsibility in the community and many opportunities to be active citizens.

An active citizen is a person who sets a good example for other citizens. We can be active citizens by lending a hand with voluntary work or even buying from the local shop. Shops are like muscles: use them or lose them.

Therefore, although we cannot vote, we have many opportunities to be active citizens in our schools and the wider community.

I leave you with this question: what are you doing to earn rights, responsibilities, opportunities and rewards in your community? Thank you.

Mr DELACRETAZ — You have stated that to be an active citizen you must actively participate in voluntary jobs around the community. However, some people’s jobs require them to work for an excessive amount of time, leaving them no time for voluntary work. Does this mean that a hard-working businessman, who works 10 hours a day and barely gets to see his children is lazy?

Miss ATKIN — As long as you are in the community and doing some work, you are not lazy but an active citizen. It does not necessarily have to be voluntary.

24 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Mr LAI — You have not defined voting. We define voting as electing a leader or representative. This includes the students representative council mentioned near the start of your speech. Therefore, you are saying that, although they cannot vote, young people have many opportunities to be active citizens by voting. That is a bit of a contradiction of terms. What do you say about that matter?

Miss ATKIN — When Wycheproof P–12 College said young people cannot vote we meant they cannot vote legally for members of Parliament — that is, the people who run the state or the country.

Mr STUDD — You asked who cares if we cannot vote. The answer is that we do. You said voting is not much fun, but how would you know? According to your speech you have never voted. Adults have told us they do not enjoy voting, but how can you be certain they are telling the truth? What evidence do you have to prove that they do not like voting?

The ACTING SPEAKER — That is a stacked question. Do we have an answer? Will honourable members have a go at answering the question?

If no member is keen to field the question, the question can be taken on notice with a member saying he or she will get back to the house with the information.

Mr LAI — How will active citizens be noted as supportive Samaritans?

The ACTING SPEAKER — I ask the member from the challenging team rephrase the question.

Mr LAI — Can I pass on that?

The ACTING SPEAKER — We will open up the questions to the rest of the chamber.

Miss ARONFELD — Isn’t it true that young people are discouraged from becoming active citizens because they are not given the responsibility that comes with activity?

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member will answer the question with wonderful courage!

Miss ATKIN — How can young people show they are independent if they do not get a chance to be active citizens?

Miss CLAYTON — Young people have the opportunity to be active citizens, but most of them do not feel simply buying a Mars bar will help their community. How do you feel about that?

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member is showing a great deal of leadership by responding. Well done.

Miss ATKIN — Some people may not believe buying a Mars bar at a local shop is helpful to the community, but it helps the business grow, which in turn supports the people in the community. If it supports the local shop it will support the community.

Miss McMAHON — You say if people are not active citizens they are lazy, but who can say whether a person is lazy or is a good citizen?

Miss NOONAN — No-one will tell a person that he or she is lazy, but people have a choice: if they want to be noted in the community they can get up and say something.

Miss O’HALLORAN — Being a citizen and voting are two different things. When you vote you are playing a huge part in deciding who will run our country. Being a citizen just involves taking part in everyday life.

Miss ATKIN — Just taking part in everyday life is not necessarily being active. You have to do something in your life to be active.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 25 Mr DE SOUSA — The honourable member for Wycheproof P–12 College stated that younger people would not find voting to be fun. That is beside the point. Do adults find voting to be fun?

Miss ATKIN — You cannot prove that adults do not like voting. Some people may like it, but in our opinion voting is confusing, and if someone makes a mistake it can affect everyone in the state or country.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time allotted for this subject has expired. I commend both sides. The presenting side showed courage in answering some difficult questions. Thinking on one’s feet is difficult and obviously a real test. We are about to be joined by honourable members of the Legislative Council, which some speakers said earlier should be abolished. We will hear a further address by a member of Parliament.

26 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 JOINT SITTING

ADDRESS BY MR GAVIN JENNINGS, MLC

PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE CABINET

The ACTING SPEAKER — I extend a warm welcome to participants joining us from the Legislative Council chamber. I hope you have found your experiences as rewarding and interesting as we in this chamber have found ours to be. This joint sitting is a bit crowded, as joint sittings of the two houses often are.

Welcome again to the Parliament of Victoria and to the Students Parliament. It is to be hoped that we will see some of you continue your involvement in future years as members of the Youth Parliament.

On behalf of the Parliament I now call on the Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet, the Honourable Gavin Jennings, a member for Melbourne Province, to extend a welcome to you.

Mr JENNINGS — Madam Acting Speaker and honourable members assembled for this joint sitting of the Students Parliament, on behalf of the Victorian Parliament and the Premier I extend to all of you his best wishes for your endeavours here today.

My challenge as a member of the upper house is to demonstrate to you that that chamber is not completely full of old blokes who go on and on. Rather, it includes several not-so-old blokes plus a number of women who are making a significant contribution to policy debate in Victoria.

I invite you to put your tummy grumbles on hold for short while so that I can raise with you a few matters to do with political process, and especially to do with things that happen in the Parliament. I hope you will use the time developing your own political views and views of the world as I speak. That is the challenge I have set for myself and for you for the next 5 minutes or so.

First, I have two questions for you — and there is no right or wrong answer to either of them: put up your hand if you support an AFL football team.

Hands raised.

Mr JENNINGS — Thank you, that was a comprehensive response. Now put up your hand if you already know which political party you will vote for when you are of voting age.

Hands raised.

Mr JENNINGS — Honourable members will have noticed that a lot fewer of you have made up your minds about how you are going to vote. On behalf of your community and the people of Victoria — and the world — thank you for responding that way.

I do not wish to imply that those who have already determined their political views are mistaken; it is admirable to have views. Nevertheless, it is good to know that many of you are still weighing up all the information coming to you about politics and about decisions affecting your lives, your families and your communities. I hope you all go on considering those matters for the rest of your lives.

Supporting a football team involves a large element of faith. You sign up with your team and often you have it for life. For example, I barrack for Essendon, partly because in 1950 my mother had heart palpitations about John Coleman — the Matthew Lloyd of the 1950s. Now, 50 years later, I still barrack for the team she supported. That is an indication of the faith element, because Essendon has had a lot of bad years as well as good years.

Political parties should not be supported purely on the basis of faith. True, each political party has its traditions and its history; and you might find that one or other of them may become generally attractive to you over time for those reasons. One party might broadly and consistently reflect your values and your world view.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 27 The Australian democratic tradition has mostly boiled down to a two-sided political equation: on one side is the Labor Party, which I represent; and on the other is the Liberal Party, to which today’s Acting Speaker belongs. Those are the two centres of gravity. The Liberal Party is sometimes in coalition with another party, the National Party.

Around the world, however, there are many democratic traditions that are not like that at all. Most European parliaments have a wide range of points of view expressed by many different single-interest parties. They usually manage to form coalitions for the purpose of forming a government, but they continue to express a range of views.

In the past 20 years or so Australians have become a bit more like that, a bit less welded on to one of the big two political groupings. Many people are now swinging voters, because faith and ideology are not enough to keep voters attached to a party from one election to the next.

People these days make assessments more often about the performance of a government. They look at how well issues are administered and at whether the government is addressing the issues that matter. I believe that is an admirable trend. I encourage you all to make your own frequent assessments of the government’s performance. Then, at the end of a four-year period of government you will be well placed to cast your vote based on the best information available.

Important issues usually have grey areas. Of the issues being debated by you today, most contain little or no absolute givens. The value of a policy can be lost in the implementation. How many people in the chamber today know that the Victorian government has introduced a bill that places limits on the sale of tobacco to people under 18 and imposes sanctions on people who continue to do it?

Hands raised.

Mr JENNINGS — Not many, I see. That means the government has not gone out and made the issue known and understood. That is a failure of proper implementation.

The new tobacco legislation includes provision for certain young people to be sent into shops by the police to set up and entrap shopkeepers who may be breaking the law. Despite the fact that the majority of people clearly believe young people should not have access to tobacco products — that is a given, a position most people in society would agree with — the question of how it will be enforced raises a whole range of issues about civil liberties and the rights of shopkeepers. Those issues include whether shopkeepers should be entrapped and whether in the pursuit of entrapment the police or authorities should use young people to secure conviction. Those issues are worthy of debate and consideration in the community and are the sorts of issues that are teased out in this place.

Some 30 minutes ago I was in the Legislative Council listening to a worthy debate about supervised injecting facilities. A solid speech was made about why supervised injecting facilities may be a good idea. When you reach the second part of the topics in the parliamentary chambers today the questions are asked, but what happens in practice? How does the Parliament play a positive role in achieving the supposed results? Does it have a downside that sends a mixed message to the community about whether it is okay to use drugs or is not okay? The sorts of questions asked in the debate I listened to this morning are exactly the sorts of questions that will be asked in the Victorian Parliament when that issue is debated.

Already it is clear that you understand the nature of putting propositions and testing how they will apply in practice — whether they are fair or whether they will disadvantage any members of the community and whether they will achieve the policy results they are supposed to achieve. That is an excellent exercise. It may be unfair when some people speak for longer than others, but the dynamic that is created through the speech and the questioning is very much what happens in Parliament. It is appropriate that that is a measure of how legislation is passed.

I know I will fail my challenge, in that you will be more aware of the rumbling of your tummies than of the points I am making, but I want you to think about the way you will determine how you will cast your vote in coming years. How will you decide? Sure, the decision relates to the philosophies, arguments and

28 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 priorities a party offers, but it also has a lot to do with your values, what makes sense in your world view and how you piece it together.

You are at an exciting and frustrating time of life because you are trying to put your world view together and to exercise freedoms and personal liberties at a time when you may find that school, family or public institutions are reining you in. It is a tension you are aware of, and it is a tension all of us feel for a long time — until we relinquish being kids and end up in the upper house!

It is an important tension, and I encourage you to take your time and think it through. Do not have false expectations about being able to change the world. When I was your age, every day I wanted to change the world there and then. Change sometimes happens quickly, but usually it does not. It usually involves a lot of work and consideration and dealing with issues raised by people with contrasting views. That is an important part of what happens in this chamber — a recognition of the validity of points made by your opponents. The concerns they bring to the table must be addressed to enable the whole community to go along as much as possible with what the government is aiming to achieve.

I hope you have a great time today. I wish you all the best in the future.

Members applauded.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I point out that it is unparliamentary to applaud in the lower house. I am unsure of the protocols for the upper house. The traditional method of acknowledgment is to say, ‘Hear, hear’. On your behalf I thank the member for Melbourne Province for his address. I commend all the members in both chambers on their involvement today.

I concur with the honourable member and encourage you to continue to be interested. Taking part in the Students Parliament will have involved an enormous amount of preparation by you and your support teams, who may not be in the chamber — although I note that many of them are in the gallery. I commend you for your work, and I congratulate your school communities, teachers and parents.

From personal experience I know that Australia is the best country in the world and that it has the most vibrant democracy. I migrated as a 10-year-old from a communist regime. I have had the honour of being elected by my constituency for the third time. My husband migrated from another communist regime and voted for the first time in his life at the age of 34, when he voted for his own wife. That is an example of what is possible in Australia.

Congratulations to you all.

Sitting suspended 12.16 p.m. until 12.58 p.m.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 29 The ACTING SPEAKER (Ms Barker) — Welcome to the afternoon session. I will take a moment to introduce myself. My name is Ann Barker, and I am the state member for Oakleigh. When I am in the house during the normal parliamentary session I am seated up on the back bench, where that young gentleman is standing.

I am very pleased to take this afternoon’s session. Like this morning’s Acting Speaker, I also have duties in this house as an Acting Speaker to conduct the normal proceedings of Parliament.

I hope you enjoy taking part in this Students Parliament.

TOPIC 11 — The age for voting and standing for election should be reduced from 18 to 15.

Presenting school — Minaret College

Challenging school — Collingwood College

Mr DISLIOGLU — A democracy is a government system whereby the interests of the whole people of a society are represented; a government system that allows freedom of speech, opinion and religion. Treatment of each citizen is without any division whatever. In order for this country to become closer to an absolute democracy we must include all classes of people in the decision-making process, including 15-year-olds.

Older is not necessarily wiser. The youth of today are better educated, have access to more information and are more aware of the world than any previous generation. We are forward looking and fully aware of how the world we will inherit should look. Currently we are locked out of any decision-making processes that affect our lives simply because of our age. For instance, the education system is formed and determined by government policy. Politicians decide on policy. These same politicians have had their education and the decisions they make in no way affect them. Is this democracy?

Members of the older generation always assume they know best, simply because they have been around a little bit longer. They do not like to have their views threatened or challenged, yet many are ignorant of the world. Wisdom comes with experience, not simply with the passing of the years.

The youth of today challenge the assumptions made by their elders and do not necessarily share the same aspirations. It is a rapidly changing world. In order for today’s youth to feel that they have a stake in this world, they must be involved in the decision-making process. By continually being excluded from power, many of today’s youth have fallen to drugs and homelessness because they believe they are not valued in society and have no place in it. Successive government’s have done little to change this view.

Politicians who belong to the older generation have not created a perfect world — they have created as many problems as they have solved. Our hospitals are crippled, public assets are being sold off to overseas interests and we are not receiving the services we require. I repeat, we are not receiving the services we require.

Young people have an interesting and innovative view of the world. They are fresh, vibrant and full of energy. We, as young people, own the future. What right does the older generation have to control a future that belongs to us? If Australian society is going to continue to prosper and flourish, we must include all points of view, from every aspect of the community, whether it is rich, poor, black or — —

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member’s time has expired. I thank you for your contribution. I invite honourable members from Collingwood College to ask questions.

Mr DUNN — How can you justify your claim that youths may take up drugs or become homeless because they cannot vote?

Mr MAKHLOUS — We are saying that because today’s youth have not been actively involved in decision-making processes they have felt left out, and when they feel left out they tend to take up bad habits such as drugs and homelessness because they have nothing else to do.

30 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Mr HORVATH — How can you assume older is not necessarily wiser when 15 to 18-year-olds spend a large percentage of their time in school and may not have much knowledge of the outside world?

Miss TUFA — What we are trying to say is that we might be young but we can be wiser than many other people in this world. We are talking about people — you and me. We can make decisions. We are not asking to be in government; we are asking to stand up for election so we can have a right to speak and say what we want. If we are good enough obviously we will get the votes; if we are not good enough we will not get the votes — that is up to the Australian people. All we are saying is that we want to stand for election and be able to vote. Because we are at school does not necessarily mean we are not smarter. We can be smarter and more aware because we have more information than any other young generation has had before.

Mr CHUNG — Is it appropriate for 15-year-olds to stand for Parliament when they are not allowed to drink and drive, do not earn adult wages, have not finished high school and do not pay taxes?

Mr DISLIOGLU — Being naive and young has nothing to do with having the ability or the opportunity to vote and represent the community. It should be noted that to deny 15-year-olds the right to vote is a gross violation of our own constitution, which guarantees equal opportunity. The 1990 act clearly states that you cannot discriminate on the basis of age, sex or gender.

Mr SPEARRITT — The younger generation has access to more information than previous generations, but does it have the experience or education to interpret that information?

Miss TUFA — Fifteen-year-olds are in school, yes, and we do have access to more information than any other generation. We can interpret this information correctly and we can use it if we please. We are not saying everybody can do that, but we are saying those who want to stand for election and those who have information and can interpret it should be given the right to do so. We should not be discriminated against. We should stand up for our rights.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I will take questions from the chamber.

Mr De SOUSA — Have you looked at the disadvantages of this — for example, the maturity levels of those concerned? What is your view?

Mr MAKHLOUS — It is true that 15-year-olds may be immature and may not be up to date, but the point is that in a democracy we all have a say. That includes the naive aspects and the good aspects, because 15-year-olds have unadulterated views of the world. They have not been poisoned by as many things as adults. They have not gone through the same processes and do not take offence at anything and everything. Children are still innocent, and therefore their votes are worth more compared with the votes of adults.

Miss JANOVIC — Minaret College mentioned that young people are vibrant and full of energy. Shouldn’t the no. 1 priority of 15-year-olds be the putting of all that energy into their schooling?

Mr MAKHLOUS — Mount Scopus Memorial College is suggesting that 15-year-olds should concentrate on their education. We must remember that their education is at stake and included in the voting process. Bills about education are being passed all the time. Fifteen-year-olds could have a say in that so their education would be better.

Miss MARCH — Is it not true that people under the age of 18 years are classed as juvenile? Why should they have the right to vote if they are juveniles?

Miss TUFA — As has been mentioned on a number of occasions, there should not be discrimination against younger people. We should have the right to vote. We should speak out and voice our needs to the people. However, we do not have to be juvenile in doing that. We can say it in a correct manner and use our privilege to the full capacity.

The Victorian constitution says that we should not discriminate against anyone because of race, gender or, as in our circumstance, age. Fifteen-year-olds can have a say. It is up to us to change the future. After

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 31 all, we will be in the future and we are going to be making the next generation’s choices. We should be leading and voicing our needs from this moment. We should not wait for older people to make choices for themselves. We should be in there and with them at Parliament House.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Thank you for your passionate responses.

32 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 12 — Forcing learner-drivers to keep a log of hours of practice is an unnecessary burden on their families.

Presenting school — Kilmore International School

Challenging school — McKinnon Secondary College

Miss WALTON — Good afternoon, Madam Acting Speaker. My team and I are here to oppose the introduction of logbooks for learner-drivers. We believe they are an unnecessary burden on the driver and his or her family and friends.

The logbooks set a goal for the learner. They have a set amount of hours that learners can aim to reach, which can lead them into believing that when they reach the certain amount of hours set they will be capable drivers. But this may not be true. The drivers might get their licences before they are ready and they would be inexperienced and self-confident, which could be deadly on our roads. Those drivers could be involved in accidents that could have been prevented if they had had more practice.

The licensed partner of the learner-driver should be concentrating on the skills of the driver, not on how long he or she has been driving. It deprives the learner of experience and sets a bad example. This can make a learner unsafe on the roads when his or her licensed partner is concentrating on a logbook and not on the road.

Logbooks would add stress to VCE/IB students who are either getting their licences or helping friends get their licences. The logbooks would take up more of their time. The time they would be wasting could be used to gain more experience.

The logbooks do not prove experience in conditions. Drivers need to be able to handle all types of situations, especially wet, windy and busy conditions, before they are allowed behind a steering wheel alone. This problem exists now and will not change even with the introduction of logbooks.

When we approached a learner-driver on the matter she told us that the logbooks were a contradiction. She believed that they would deprive them of the responsibility learner-drivers were given by the government by being allowed to drive. She felt that if the logbooks were to be introduced the learners would feel that they were being treated like children. She stated that they would feel unreliable.

There is also the chance of fraud. Learners who are desperate to get their licences might try to get their friends and families to sign for hours that they had not yet practised. These amateurish drivers would get their licences without reaching the set number of hours.

The logbooks would impose unneeded stress on the families of the learners and are not really necessary. We believe the logbooks are focused on hours and not on skill and experience, as they should be. They therefore give learners the wrong approach to driving.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I congratulate the honourable member on being succinct and to the point. I call on the challenging school to ask its questions.

Miss MILLER — Wouldn’t logbooks consolidate the commitment that learner-drivers had to their licences and encourage them to treat the granting of drivers licences seriously?

Mr HURST — Could you please repeat that question?

Miss MILLER — Wouldn’t logbooks consolidate the commitment that learner-drivers had to their licences and encourage them to treat the granting of drivers licences seriously?

Miss SCOTT — We believe there would be more stress, considering most learner-drivers would be doing their VCE. Their families would also be affected. Coming home from a long day’s work, they are not going to feel like having to take out their learner-driver son or daughter for a driving lesson.

Mr LAZAR — You have stated that learners might feel both confident and unreliable if logbooks were to be introduced. How can one feel those emotions at the same time? If they have

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 33 completed the set amount of hours, why shouldn’t they feel confident? How can keeping a logbook make them feel unreliable?

Mr HURST — They could be, because it would be introducing unrelated pleasure and so on.

Miss SEGEV — How can filling out and signing one piece of information be a burden and impose stress?

Miss WALTON — It would be a stress because the families would have to put more time into the poor learner-drivers, who would not get as many hours on the road. They would possibly say: we have to finish 10 minutes earlier because we have to fill in the book. It would be unfair on the driver.

Miss DIAS SANTILHANO — You stated that drivers could be involved in accidents that could have been prevented. Isn’t that the point of logbooks — that is, to prevent avoidable accidents?

Mr DE SOUSA — We stated in the speech that the logbooks concentrate on the time that the learner-driver spends driving and not the skills they have acquired. If they were to spend more time on the skills they need to drive in different conditions that would avoid accidents. Surely it is not just the time they spend on the road learning that prevents them from having accidents; it is the skills they acquire in that process.

Miss ARONFELD — Learners are at all times required to travel with someone. Why is it a hassle at the end of a trip simply to sign a paper recording the amount of time that person has travelled with the learner?

Mr DE SOUSA — It is not so much the hassle of the time spent signing a piece of paper — which is not that long for most people — rather it is the time spent by parents and families in taking the learner-drivers out to practice. If the amount of time taken does not equate to the amount of skill acquired by the learner-driver, then it is clearly unnecessary.

Mr HENLEY — Parents are anxious that their children become good and safe drivers, not about how long it takes to write in the logbooks. I do not see how it affects the parents or the drivers. Hours of driving will make them better. Can the school give examples of how this affects parents and families?

Mr HURST — It is not the hours that are spent but the skill level needed to acquire the licence. If the skill level is reached there should be no problem with the learner-driver becoming a skilful driver on the road.

Mr HOPKINS — The goals set should be enough to satisfy the government and the Transport Accident Commission that the driver has become accomplished and that his or her time in the car has allowed him or her to acquire all the necessary skills to drive competently and safely, should they not?

Miss WALTON — It does not really matter how many hours have been driven. A person could drive up and down one street for hours without acquiring any skills. A driver needs to practice in the snow, drive on roads covered with ice, drive in the middle of a busy city street and learn to avoid cattle on a dirt road. Clocking up hours in useless conditions is no good.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for this topic has expired.

34 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 13 — A number of extra members of Parliament should be elected specifically to represent Aboriginal voters. This would be a step forward in the reconciliation process.

Presenting school — Benalla College

Challenging school — Kilvington Girls’ Grammar

Mr RHEESE — Benalla College believes that extra members of Parliament should be elected specifically to represent the Aboriginal people of Australia. This would be a major step forward in the reconciliation process.

Aborigines have occupied Australia for over 40 000 years. When Europeans first settled here in the late 1700s they brought disease, alcohol and 30 soldiers who were responsible for some Aboriginal murders. Benalla College believes the Aboriginal people are survivors. They let white people come and make a civilisation. Not only did Europeans take the country, but children were removed from the Aborigines because Europeans thought they could raise them better.

But now after 200 years of silence the Aboriginal people are speaking out, but we do not want to listen. This is why our Parliament needs extra members elected to speak on behalf of the Aboriginal population.

Some of the great sports people of Australia are also speaking out, including the 400-metre Olympic runner, Cathy Freeman, and Essendon’s champion footballer, Michael Long. Finally the government is paying attention, but this process could have been easier if politicians had represented indigenous Australians years ago.

A wise man once said:

The clearer you can look back, then the further you can see forward. Benalla College believes this, and thinks its case would speed up the reconciliation process. We need to say sorry and start giving back to the Aboriginal people.

This year 26 May was National Sorry Day, and between 200 000 and 500 000 people, both white and black, marched across Sydney Harbour Bridge to support the reconciliation ideal. As an aeroplane wrote ‘Sorry’ in the sky several times, an Aboriginal elder said:

I think today is the most beautiful day of my life. The most beautiful day. Ex-Prime Ministers Bob Hawke and Malcolm Fraser were marching, as was Governor–General Sir William Deane, but Mr Howard was not. Banners and posters read, ‘Mr Howard says sorry (he has other commitments today)’ and ‘Unchain your heart Mr Howard’.

This day was not the first protest on Aboriginal rights. There was a day of mourning in 1938 and Invasion Day in 1988. Marchers and protesters also turned out in 1992 when the High Court handed down its decision on native title. There will be a major protest at the Olympic Games in support of the reconciliation process.

Even if the stolen generations were a single generation, as Mr Howard says — which they were not. Even if it was an event that happened before our lifetime — which it was not. Even if it only affected 10 per cent of indigenous children — which it did not — —

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member’s time has expired. I call on questions from Kilvington Girls’ Grammar.

Miss NEAVE — In its speech when it refers to ‘we’ is Benalla College speaking about the Australian people or the Australian government?

Mr ELLETT — The Australian people.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 35 Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — If you refer to ‘we’ as the Australian society, how do you account for the half a million people who crossed the Sydney Harbour Bridge to support the Aboriginal people, taking into consideration that it took place in Sydney and not the rest of Australia?

Mr ELLETT — In responding to your question, let me restate the college’s main point: the reconciliation process must be moved on. Kilvington’s question only sends us back in time. Aboriginal people have always been in Australia, and they deserve a voice in government. Let them have a voice in reshaping relationships in our own community and the rest of Australia.

The ACTING SPEAKER — A true politician’s response. You have restated your case without answering the question. Congratulations!

Miss EASTON — Surely it is unfair to give special treatment to one minority group and not to others such as the Greeks, the Chinese, elderly people or single parents?

Miss MURPHY — Aboriginal people have more of a right to their say than other cultures because they have lived in Australia for more than 40 000 years.

Miss BALACHANDRAU — Kilvington Girls’ Grammar feels that not many people watch Parliament each day compared to those who see the news, therefore, would it not be a bigger step to present the reconciliation process through the media rather than Parliament?

Mr BLACK — The government runs the country, not the media.

Mr CHISHOLM — The anti-discrimination laws state that we should not discriminate on the basis of race. Why then should Aborigines have extra rights to seats in Parliament?

Mr RHEESE — As Miss Murphy said, Aborigines have been in Australia for 40 000 years. They are native to Australia. We took the land from them and should give them a right to be accounted for. They should have a voice. They should run the country with us, not against us.

Mr STUDD — You stated that the Aborigines have been in Australia longer than other people, so they should have more rights. Isn’t that discrimination?

Mr RHEESE — We might be discriminating against other cultures. However, we should look at the subject at hand. We want to speed up the reconciliation project. We are not talking about other cultures at the moment.

Mr TREACY — If Aborigines are allowed to run for Parliament why don’t they? In doing so they would help their own people, as they would better understand their needs.

Mr MURPHY — As not many Aborigines have had the education or knowledge to represent their people they have not had much of a say over the past years.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for that topic has expired.

36 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 14 — Women’s sport is not given the recognition it deserves.

Presenting school — Point Gellibrand Girls’ Secondary College

Challenging school — Catholic College Bendigo

Miss SMITH — The largely unsung efforts of Australian sportswomen have a long and strong history. Throughout history women have struggled in a society that works against them. They are forever being restricted to the roles of housewife and mother. Women want more. The lack of recognition women’s sports receive is a classic example of women again not being accepted for their many feats.

During the Second World War women were forced to take on the role of the male while the men were off fighting. After the war the press turned women’s attention to more domestic matters. During the next decade media attention focused on the personal lives of successful women. Shirley Strickland, a track and field athlete, was often described as a housewife and mother despite her PhD in nuclear physics. It is not that women are underachieving these days. It is not that we do not deserve more.

In netball our Australian team is world champion, and Australia is the only country to have achieved the honour of holding both titles, retaining dual world championship status in the Open and 21-and-under. Our own Karrie Webb may be the best woman golfer ever, having won the 2000 US Open, the 2000 Nabisco Championship and the 1999 Du Maurier Classic.

The Matildas, our women’s soccer team, are Australia Cup champions and compete at international and Olympic levels. Our women’s softball team won the Canada Cup in July. Our women’s cricket team is the current world cup holder. The Hockeyroos, the Australian hockey team, are world champions. Need I go on?

In today’s society men who succeed are idolised by the media and the public. This acceptance and adoration however, does not extend to women. The Age of 25 July compares prize money won by Tiger Woods and Karrie Webb for the year 2000. Karrie came in a distant second with $US1.48 million; Tiger having won more than three and a half times Karrie’s prize money at $US5.7 million. The pictures accompanying the article were of Tiger and Karrie. However, Tiger’s picture was more than ten and a half times bigger than Karrie’s and in a much more eye-catching position.

Should we let two, almost identical, athletes receive different levels of recognition just because one is female?

Many people believe men play sport and women play games. Tennis is a great example, where Anna Kournikova is being dubbed the richest loser, getting approximately $US20 million a year — $US2 million of which is from actually playing tennis.

The rest of the money is from wearing dresses that are more like tee-shirts, swishing her hair and using a commercial product. Women are appreciated for their appearance, not their talent, ability or achievements.

It is ridiculous to claim that the media is reflecting the people’s interests, because I am sure anyone with more than half a brain would much rather learn how the Hockeyroos are going than find out how big Anna Kournikova’s breasts are.

Miss MARCH — How can you compare Tiger Woods and Karrie Webb when they were competing in different levels of competition in different competitions, with different sponsors?

Miss FRITH — We compared the two because they both play golf and have won the same number of tournaments in a year.

Miss CLAYTON — Are the disadvantages to women in sport caused by companies and sponsors who are prepared to sponsor only beautiful women?

Miss SMITH — It is shown in society today that a lot of women are achieving in sport. Why aren’t they getting recognition for that rather than for being beautiful?

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 37 Miss SPURLING — Do you have any statistics on how many people attend the various men’s and women’s sporting events?

Miss DEAN — No, we do not.

Miss MARCH — Then how can you compare them?

Miss ANDERSON — Lots of people go to a football match and watch boys, but you do not see many men going to see the tennis when the women are playing. They go to see women’s clothing and their breasts popping out.

Mr DELACRETAZ — Women in sport are getting a lot more recognition than they were in the past. What do you have to say about that?

Miss SMITH — They might be getting more but they are still not getting as much as they deserve.

Miss NIXON — Did Tiger Woods and Karrie Webb play the same courses? It is unfair to compare them if they did not, because it is a very different competition.

Miss SMITH — Women play golf, but they cannot perform at the same level as men because of human nature — women are not as strong as men. People have put women on a different level in society because of those restrictions, but does that mean that women should not get recognition?

Miss ATKIN — How can you say that women do not go to football games just to see guys running around in singlets?

Miss SMITH — Women may do that, but men are getting recognition for their sport and women are not.

Mr LAZAR — Point Gellibrand Girls’ Secondary College believes women do not get the recognition they deserve, but male sportsmen have to work much harder. In tennis men can play for five sets, but women only play for up to three sets. In swimming men swim 1500 metres, but the maximum distance women swim is 800 metres. If women want the same recognition, shouldn’t they be working as hard as men?

Miss SMITH — People are not allowing women to reach those levels in today’s society, so why should women be punished because they are being told they are not allowed to do those things?

Miss MARCH — If women do not want to be discriminated against shouldn’t they be trying to compete at those levels?

The ACTING SPEAKER — I ask the member to repeat the question.

Miss MARCH — Women are being offered the same opportunities in sport, but they are not taking up most of them. For example, they have been offered the opportunity of swimming 1500 metres, but none have taken up the challenge.

Miss SMITH — It is not within their physical capacity.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for the topic has expired.

38 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 15 — Genetically modified foods should be banned in Australia.

Presenting school — St John’s Greek Orthodox College

Challenging school — Plenty Valley Christian School

Mr KOTSOPOULOS — Good afternoon Madam Acting Speaker and honourable members of Parliament. My fellow members and I from St John’s Greek Orthodox College are here to argue that genetically modified foods should be banned.

I will explain genes and gene technology. Genes are the building blocks of every living organism. They are the instructions that tell an animal or plant how to grow. Gene technology involves combining those genes to produce better plants and animals. However, that can be deadly. Firstly, there has not been enough testing undertaken on the safety of genetically modified foods. Scientists are divided over the level of risk. Research indicates that more than 160 genetically modified foods are known as allergens, but very few have been classified as causing most allergic reactions. New research has alerted us to the possible connections between modified soybeans and the development of cancer. It is important that we know the facts before we have modified foods in the supermarket.

Secondly, scientists are unsure about the effect on the environment of genetically modified foods. Environmentalists believe plant virus genes added to crops could be recombined with other plant viruses to generate new strains that are harmful to plants. For instance, what if some bugs can get used to genetically modified plants? We might end up with superbugs that are damaging to crops.

People believe that using gene technology improves the product, but there is a negative side to that. Farmers may plant crops with a different gene, but that can reconstruct the plant. In addition, people have cloned cows for meat. If we clone cows we may end up with no more cows in the future, because cloned cows cannot reproduce. That will cause financial problems.

Furthermore, we should not be interfering with God’s creations, because we cannot play God. Many scientists have said we have played God for years, but we have never made changes at this level. We do not know the results of experiments, because it takes many years to see what the effects are. Some animals have produced mutants, and we eat many of those animals. In the future it is possible that we may see cloning take place like it did in Jurassic Park, which showed how playing God can go wrong.

The cloning and modification of animals and plants is serious. Imagine a teacher you really hate being modified to become twice as bad. Scary! That is what is happening to plants and animals.

You, Madam Acting Speaker, and honourable members must be convinced that genetically modified foods should not be put on supermarket shelves.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I ask the honourable member holding the placard to resume her seat. Thank you. I shall allow the honourable member for St John’s Greek Orthodox College the full amount of time to finish his remarks.

Mr KOTSOPOULOS — The dangerous consequences involve a risk to human life that is too high. The dangers will cause trouble for both humans and the environment. Honourable members of Parliament and guests — genetically modified foods should be banned in Australia.

Mr GARDINER — St John’s Greek Orthodox College has said that gene modification can be harmful to human health, but are we talking about fatal injuries or just the odd rash? Surely those foods can be modified again to combat those problems.

Mr DOKOLAS — There is a potato that is made by taking a gene from a flounder to stop it from bruising. Eating potatoes may cause side effects for people who are allergic to fish. The effects may be fatal or they may be small, such as rashes. However, some effects can be long term and bother people for the rest of their lives.

Mr CLARKE — St John’s Greek Orthodox College has given reasons for the need to ban the cloning of people and animals. Are the members basing the statement that genetically modified foods

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 39 should be banned from Australia on their belief that gene modification could produce superbugs and mutants?

Mr KOTSOPOULOS — We mentioned cows because cows are used for food. We eat cows when we go to McDonalds. The reason I included cows in my speech is because we eat them.

Mr SCOTT — Is there any specific data or evidence to prove that genetically modified foods are dangerous?

Mr DOKOLAS — Rats and other animals have died in laboratory tests. Also, scientists are unsure about the side effects because the situation may look okay now, but 10 years down the track we may have a serious problem. It is too much of a risk to human life to simply try out something that may be useful in the future. Human life is special, and must not be got rid of.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I now call for questions from the chamber.

Miss TUFA — There have been so many technological advances in the area of genetic engineering, such as growing new organs for people and growing more food for starving communities, don’t you think banning genetic engineering or stopping people going ahead with those technologies is pulling us backwards and making us ignorant of the problems arising in today’s society?

Mr DOKOLAS — Some technologies should go forward, but not when it comes to altering food. We should not play God, as we said before. We eat food every day, and if anything should ever happen to it we could all be wiped out. Those experiments are too dangerous to attempt.

On the matter of starvation, if we grow more food to feed the starving by genetic modification and the food turns out to be poisonous, will that be a good thing? Won’t we just be killing everyone with poison instead of killing them by letting them starve?

Mr MANSELL — You said they put flounder into the potatoes. I have not heard of any deaths caused by genetic modification of food. Could you tell me, please, if any such deaths have occurred?

Mr DOKOLAS — As I said before, testing has been done on animals. Also, some modified food has been eaten by humans, such as the potato that had flounder in it, and there have been allergic reactions to it even by people who are not allergic to flounder. There were rashes and other side effects. Some testing on animals has resulted in the deaths of animals. That has not been a big issue in the news.

If we do go ahead with genetically modified food, the side effects will emerge later on. That is when you will see the real difference.

Mr DELACRETAZ — If you do not want to play God, why are you testing things on animals?

Mr DOKOLAS — As new chemicals and new medicines come out, such as those developed for fighting cancer, they are always tested first on animals before they are tested on humans. It might well be cruel, and I feel it is, but I would rather a little laboratory rat die — especially a rat that knows it was bred for testing — than lose a human life.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for this topic has concluded.

40 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 TOPIC 16 — Music is an effective means of communication between the generations.

Presenting school — Kerang Technical High School

Challenging school — Waverley Christian College

Mr HEWITT — ‘One, two, three o’clock, four o’clock rock …’ I don’t believe anybody here is not familiar with those lyrics, though indeed they are not from our era. So how do we know them? From our family sharing them. We know them because music is an effective means of communication between the generations.

Music tells us a story of what life was or is like for people, and the lyrics teach us how others dealt with certain problems, and so possibly helping later generations. Songs educate us about others’ experiences.

The ‘Cat’s in the Cradle’ verses contain a straightforward story of a troubled son and father relationship, making them a prime example of a song’s educational value. Families can find a message in them to help them with their own lives. A song like that can open up discussion between any father and son. It has been remixed several times to maintain its relevance to many generations.

The majority of today’s pop music has originated from the rhythm and blues era of generations ago. Those songs are stories of people’s experiences at the time, and they continue to have their effect. Endless numbers of pop songs have been remixed to keep their meanings relevant to events in following generations. Yesterday’s songs are listened to by people today to share the same feelings and think about the same issues. ‘Rock You’, a Queen song, has just recently been remixed by a popular male band called Five. Its message is still appropriate today, since teenagers still rebel, just like our mothers and fathers — the teenagers of the Queen generation — rebelled in their day.

Religion is another area in which families share music. ‘Swing Low, Sweet Chariot’ was a Negro spiritual from the slavery days and is still sung now as a gospel song. ‘Morning has Broken’ began as a pop song and is still listened to, mainly within churches nowadays. Those songs have remained important because they express emotions we can all understand.

Attending church is usually a family experience, and music makes those times so much richer. Just as playing musical instruments together and joining in a singalong makes so many family occasions special, so a grandparent passing on a treasured instrument allows each following generation to make it its own.

People show their emotions and share them with others through music. It is a way of communicating all over the world; a way for families and the community to share common interests and ideals.

Mr TAN — Does the term ‘effective’ refer to the passing of negative messages as well as positive messages? And, if a negative message is being passed, why would we want to do that? Some of the songs you have mentioned — for example, ‘Rock You’ — pass on a negative message. Please comment.

Miss TAYLOR — Yes, songs may convey a negative meaning, but they still communicate down the generations.

Miss NIXON — Music has an age barrier. Teenagers would much rather listen to a song from their own generation than to the Wiggles. You must be mature enough to understand the lyrics of some songs of today. By saying there is an age barrier, what exactly do you mean?

Miss TAYLOR — Young people may be unable to understand the full meaning of a song, that is true. But we are not talking only about young people, we are talking about the broad spectrum. Anyone can bop along to a tune, even if it is only the Wiggles or something else that we are not really enjoying because we have matured beyond that stage. We still know it for what it is, though. We might say, for example, that the music our grandparents listened to is not quite what we would go along with ourselves, but we can still appreciate it for what it is.

The majority of music can be understood by people whether the music is for their age group or for a different group.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 41 Miss SIM — How many songs on the radio or in the top 10 are beneficial to pass on to the next generation? Are they appropriate to pass on to generations to come?

Miss JAMES — The messages will be passed down whether we want them to be or not. What is wrong with passing down messages such as those? They are expressions and views mainly communicating about love. Don’t we want to pass love on to the next generation?

Mr DUNN — Do you know by heart any of the songs you have mentioned?

Mr TREACY — That is not what Kerang Technical High School was getting at.

Miss ISMAIL — Are you saying that if they sing to them, children who are drunk, hate their parents and never talk to them will understand them more? If you have a grandmother who does not speak English and you do not know what she is saying, if she starts to sing to you you will understand everything she says?

Miss TAYLOR — Yes, you are right to a degree. You have a good point about language being a barrier. However, if a song is slow and melodious it could be a sad song; if it is loud it could express anger. You can express emotion in song, so to a degree you can pass on a message despite the language barrier.

Miss LOXTON — You said in your speech how the meaning of the song is passed down through the generations. How do you know that all the meanings are true and the words in the song happened to the person?

Mr TREACY — When we said the words were being passed down we meant it was the experience that people can learn from.

Mr SCOTT — Just as people our age do not listen to our parents’ music, our grandparents do not like our music because they think it is too loud. You would not find people in a retirement home listening to Korn. What is your response to that?

Miss JAMES — Korn is not all that people listen to. There are many slow songs in the Top 20 or whatever you listen to that grandparents do enjoy and will continue to enjoy.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The time for this topic has expired. Prior to calling the Acting Clerk to read the next topic, I indicate that I have another appointment and will be leaving the chair.

I thank you all for the opportunity to preside over this session of Students Parliament. A further Acting Speaker will take the chair. Thank you all, and good luck for the future.

42 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 The ACTING SPEAKER (Mrs Coote) — My name is Andrea Coote. I am not from this chamber but from the Legislative Council on the other side of Parliament House. For those of you who are new here and for whom today is your first time in this chamber, so it is for me.

I am looking forward to the time we spend together. You may not know that members of Parliament can sit downstairs in their offices and hear you through the recording system. I have been listening to you and am impressed with the quality and calibre of your work.

We will now continue with topic 17.

TOPIC 17 — Australia has a responsibility to intervene when military coups occur in the Pacific region.

Presenting school — St Joseph’s College, Mildura

Challenging school — Wycheproof P–12 College

Mr MANSELL — Recent coups and political upheavals in various Pacific nations have created much debate about the part Australia should play in regional politics. What role should we play in our part of the world? Should Australia act as a leader and play an active role, or should it leave nations to develop their own independent sociopolitical systems according to their own history, culture and values? The answer is yes, Australia does have a responsibility to be proactive and interventionist in this area. It does have a duty to step in.

The key concept underlying St Joseph’s College’s argument for intervention is human rights. It is universally agreed that every individual possesses inherent human rights which no law, no society and no political system can take away or ignore. We cherish those human rights; they are the cornerstone of our democratic system. Every person must have the right to freedom and to elect individuals to represent them in government. The coups in Fiji and the Solomon Islands pose a significant threat to the human rights of many citizens in those developing nations.

The Fijian coup is based on simple racial intolerance and division. Since their arrival in the 1920s, Indo-Fijians have prospered both economically and socially and now comprise 45 per cent of the population. Jealous of their success, some native Fijians now blame Indo-Fijians for their own problems and seek an undemocratic, racially divisive system that favours their own race over Indo-Fijians.

The Indo-Fijians do not deserve this. Many of them are second and third-generation native Fijians; they were born there and know no other homeland. Yet men such as George Speight would overthrow elected governments and install systems that favour native Fijians over Indian Fijians, infringing their fundamental human rights. Their response, when western nations protest, is, ‘Butt out. You don’t understand our culture’. It is not a question of culture but a question of equity, of fairness, of basic human rights. The rights of a large section of Fiji’s citizens are being suppressed, and it is consequently our duty to step in.

We should intervene, but what form should this take? Should it be of a military nature? Should we risk the lives of young Australians to guarantee democratic freedom for other nations? Yes. Those coups are almost always of a violent nature, threaten or advocate violence or prompt racialism which descends into violence. Unfortunately we must sometimes risk a few lives to save many lives. Society looks away from racist regimes such as Nazi Germany, which start as popular movements but become genocidal. Such a scenario is more than possible in Pacific settings.

In conclusion, we at St Joseph’s College, Mildura, fully support Australia’s intervention where coups threaten democracy. Our school has a large number of students of Tongan and Pacific Island descent, who have emigrated, adapted, prospered and live harmoniously alongside other races.

Mr BISH — Have other countries asked Australia for help? If so, who asked? Is Australia taking sides? If the wrong decision is made and it backfires, what then?

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 43 Miss SIMMONS — Australians do not know what it would be like to live in a country that suffers political unrest, where people fear for their lives. It is our duty to send troops to keep peace in the Pacific nations.

Our troops are highly trained and are well aware of the dangers involved. It is their chosen profession and they are proud to represent their country in peacekeeping forces. Consider our fate if we were under threat and no-one came to our aid!

Miss NOONAN — If you are so concerned about human rights, maybe we should be attending to our own problems and improving the health and education of our native Australians. How can we preach human rights to another country when our own record is far from spotless?

Mr MANSELL — Yes, it is a bit arrogant. We do have our own problems — we need to consider those first — however, the problems in Fiji are a lot greater. The Australian Aboriginals can vote and have human rights; in Fiji, the Indian Fijians are in strife and some of them are about to be killed.

Miss COCKFIELD — Why should we interfere? Don’t you believe that the people of Fiji are capable of making their own decisions and sorting out their own problems?

Miss LOXTON — Yes, they probably could, except that at the moment they don’t have any forces to help them out because there was a lot of violence in the area. If we were in that situation we would expect help. We would need the same help.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I thank honourable members for their contributions, and I call for questions from the floor.

Mr RHEESE — I want you to imagine that Queensland declares war and sends troops into New South Wales: would Indonesia or Fiji send peacekeepers here to help us? If we have a responsibility to help them, would they help us?

Mr MANSELL — Hopefully the Queenslanders will not declare war on New South Wales. I doubt that the Fijians would come and help us because their military forces are a lot smaller than ours. Seeing we have such a great military force, it is stupid to keep it to ourselves; we may as well take it overseas and use it as it is supposed to be used.

Mr LAZAR — When you say Australians do not know what it is like to live in a less well-off foreign country, are you saying that you actually know what it is like? If you do, please elaborate.

Miss LOXTON — Would you please repeat the question?

Mr LAZAR — When you say Australians do not know what it is like to live in a less well-off foreign country, are you saying that you know what it is like? If you do, please elaborate.

Mr MANSELL — No, I have not lived in another country yet. However, it has been in the media and on the news. You might have seen just how bad the living is in Ethiopia and other third world countries, especially recently in Fiji where I saw a man being interviewed who had been shot in the leg by some Fijians. At the moment the standard of living is very poor for Indian Fijians.

Mr SPEARRITT — Do you know whether Indonesia has signed the Declaration of Human Rights?

Mr MANSELL — As I said, it is universally agreed. We are talking about Fiji, not Indonesia.

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — It does not really matter if Australia has a responsibility; it should be whether the Pacific countries would actually accept our help. Do you agree?

Mr MANSELL — Would you please rephrase that question.

Miss AMBIKAIPALAU — It is not a matter of whether or not we give the Pacific countries our help, it actually comes down to whether or not they accept it. For example, the Russians did not

44 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 accept help from the British until a few days after everybody died on the submarine, so it depends on whether the Fijians, or any Pacific country, would actually accept our help.

Miss LOXTON — We do agree with that, but it is also whether we even ask if they need our help. It is no good standing around not even asking if they need help, because that would not be any use, would it?

The ACTING SPEAKER — That concludes this topic. I congratulate all the participants, especially honourable members from St Joseph’s College, Mildura, and Wycheproof P–12 College.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 45 TOPIC 18 — The republic issue is dead and buried.

Presenting school — Mount Scopus Memorial College

Challenging school — Banksia Secondary College

Miss JANOVIC — Madam Acting Speaker, we believe the republic issue is dead and buried. We define ‘dead’ as ‘having been used or rejected’.

To make it easier for everyone in the house to grasp this concept, let us use the analogy of a dog burying a bone. A dog is given a bone and chews on it for a while, but once the dog is no longer interested in the bone he buries it. The bone is not buried forever, as the dog will always remember where it is and that in the future he can go back and dig it up if he wishes to do so. This can be compared to the republic issue.

The Australian electorate was presented with the republic referendum to contemplate, or chew on. They voted on the issue; however, it was rejected, and buried. We are stressing the fact that at the present moment the republic issue is dead and buried, but just like the dog can dig up the bone, we too can return to the matter of the republic.

The coalition addressed the republic issue in a systematic manner, holding a referendum on 6 November 1999. Only one region — the ACT — voted in favour of the republic. Consequently, it was dismissed. As mentioned earlier, when something is addressed and is then dismissed, and when it is no longer a concern to the Australian public, it is classified as a dead issue.

It is obvious that the republic issue is dead and buried, as corroborated by an article that appeared in the Australian in July this year, which stated:

John Howard has (once again) slapped down a states-led bid to resurrect the republic campaign, saying there is no (further) public interest in the matter. The Prime Minister has also said that he will not reintroduce the republic issue for another 10 years, proving that he feels that at this point in time it is not a relevant matter; that it is dead and buried.

This is reiterated by the fact that the republic issue is rarely acknowledged in all forms of media. Where are the advertisements on television, the discussions and constant debates in the newspapers or magazines? The consciousness of this issue is nowhere to be seen. If the republic were still a vital part of our society it would obviously be all over the media, but not only is it not all over the media, it is virtually non-existent.

At the end of last year the Herald Sun published the five leading issues that concerned the Australian public: 1, East Timor; 2, Kosovo; 3, the GST; 4, the republic vote; and 5, the Sydney Olympics. Those five issues were the most important matters over the 12-month period, and I note that the republic vote was only the fourth issue on the list in the year of the proposed referendum.

The ACTING SPEAKER — The honourable member’s time has expired.

Miss WARREN — In your speech you used the analogy of a dog burying a bone, which was referring to the republic issue last year and the referendum result. You said the bone is buried and it could be dug up again if the dog wants to dig it up. I would like to know why you used that analogy if you are pointing out that the issue is dead. If it is dead and buried, why are we still talking about it?

Mr ELIKHIS — I would like to say that, as our speaker correctly said, for the moment the republic issue is dead and buried but, just like a dog digging up a bone, in the future if the Australian electorate wishes we can refer back to the matter of the republic.

Mr BROWN — You clearly stated in your speech that the republic issue will be reintroduced in 10 years time. What makes you think that if people do not want a republic now they will want one in 10 years time?

46 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Miss ARONFELD — We are not debating whether the people want a republic or do not want a republic. The issue is dead and buried at the moment. In the foreseeable future the republic issue will not be brought up for another 10 years, which makes it completely dead and buried.

Miss McMAHON — In your speech you said the republic vote was the fourth most important issue at the end of last year. The reason the republic vote was not featured last year was because of the Olympic Games, which are this year, as is the GST. The republic vote was only in the top five when it was happening. Do you expect something that happened last year to still be in the papers?

Miss JANOVIC — Once again, the topic is that the republic issue is dead and buried, so it is definitely relevant that it is not on the list now. We are not talking about last year when it was fourth. That further proves the fact that it was not relevant then, and it is definitely not relevant now.

Miss NIXON — In your speech you stated that it was fourth on the list. That is still more important than the Olympic Games, which was no. 5, and all the other topics were not included on the list. What do you say to that?

Miss BARRON — These statistics show that even at the time the republican vote was only fourth, so it is very relevant that there are three other issues that were topping the list at the time.

Miss SEGEV — But doesn’t ‘dead and buried’ mean gone forever? Why are you suggesting it will be an issue again?

Miss ARONFELD — In the foreseeable future the republic issue is dead and buried. It has gone and does not look like it will come up again. No-one can say what will happen in the future, but at the moment it is dead and buried.

Mr HOPKINS — You continue to refer back to the republican issue being dead and buried, yet you brought up the fact that it was fourth on the list of most important topics last year. Can you expand on that?

Mr ELIKHIS — The republican issue was no. 4 in the Herald Sun published figures summarising the most important issues in the newspaper. That was in December 1999, and it reflected the whole year. The republic vote issue was only no. 4. The GST issue, which was no. 5, is now no. 2, and the Olympic Games issue, which did not even make the list, is now on top. It all depends on which year you look at.

The ACTING SPEAKER — Thank you all for your contributions.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 47 TOPIC 19 — Despite drugs and corruption allegations, the Olympic spirit is still alive and well in Australia.

Presenting school — Brighton Grammar School

Challenging school — Parkdale Secondary College

Mr LUTJEN — Brighton Grammar School is convinced that despite drugs and corruption allegations the Olympic spirit is alive and well in Australia. Given the specificity of the location in Australia it is appropriate that we consider how Australians personify the Olympic spirit. What is the Olympic spirit? It is a spirit of peace and goodwill, as reflected by the emergence of the Olympic Games in 770 BC. The Olympic Games took precedence over wars, such as the Peloponnesian War, and had the power to temporarily force a cease-fire between city states, such as the constantly warring states of Athens and Sparta. Unfortunately drugs and corruption have been linked to the Olympic Games since their inception.

The torch symbolises the unity of Australia as a nation. We need go no further than scan the list of more than 11 000 Australians who will be carrying the Olympic torch through the Outback and the cities to show that all Australians unite during the Olympic Games — poor and rich; able bodied and disabled; Danny Dunlop, a mute quadriplegic from Maryborough; Doreen Orchard, a heart transplant recipient who is also a Paralympian; Richard ‘Dick’ Garraid, who is 90 years old; Labor and Liberal politicians; the young and the old; black and white Australians — all proving that the Olympic spirit is alive and thriving.

More than 50 000 volunteers have donated their time, finances and expertise to ensure the games are successful. Is that not a true indicator of the Olympic spirit? What about the many thousands of spectators of the Olympic torch relay? Why would the Australian government invest millions of dollars in the Olympic Games if it thought the Olympic spirit was not alive and well?

The Olympic spirit has survived 2000 years despite the allegations of drugs. We know the Greeks and Romans used drugs to hype themselves up and improve their performances. We acknowledge that a few athletes have been found to be taking drugs. However, the Olympic spirit is alive and well; it is a shining sun, and even though the clouds of cheats might create shadows, the spirit still shines.

Drugs do not impact on the spirit of the Olympics in Australia. They may raise concerns and debate, but they do not affect the Olympic spirit. The Olympic spirit has been alive for more than 2000 years, and it is still alive and well in Australia.

Miss WALSH — There are so many scandals up to and around the period of the Olympics. For instance, people have mentioned Kevan Gosper and his daughter and the Salt Lake City corruption scandal. How can you say that the Olympic spirit is alive and well when incidents like those take place?

Mr HENLEY — The Olympic spirit is alive and well in Australia. The Salt Lake City scandal has nothing to do with the Australian spirit.

Mr GALLIERS — You claimed that the Australian government invested millions upon millions of dollars in the Olympic Games because it thought that the Olympic spirit was alive and well. In reality, the Australian government does not give a second thought to the Olympic spirit. The only reason the Australian government invests millions of dollars in the Olympic Games is that it benefits from the tourism and other revenue generated from the event. Isn’t that so?

Mr MOUSTAFA — The government would not invest millions of dollars if it did not think the public was going to watch the event. The public is going to watch it because of the spirit, the feeling and pride in Australia as a nation.

Miss RICHARDSON — Every time a world record is broken by a considerable amount in Olympic sports there is instant speculation about drug use. Surely this detracts from our Olympic spirit of fair play?

48 Students Parliament 22 August 2000 Mr HENLEY — The topic we are debating is that the Olympic spirit is still alive and well in Australia. It is not about drug allegations. Drug allegations do not take anything away from the Olympic spirit; they just reflect on the integrity of Olympians.

Mr HOPKINS — You say that in 770 BC the Peloponnesian War was put on hold due to the Olympic Games and the spirit they bring. Can you explain why there were no Olympic Games between 1912 and 1920 and again between 1936 and 1948?

Mr LUTJEN — I stated that the Olympic Games began in 770 BC. The Peloponnesian wars are irrelevant to that date.

Miss WALSH — Former Olympic cyclist Lionel Cox reflects many former Olympians when he refers to the dominance of money across the whole Olympic movement. With this money comes corruption, doesn’t it?

Mr HENLEY — The topic is about the Olympic spirit being alive and well. It is not about money and corruption ruining the Olympic spirit.

Mr DE SOUSA — Weren’t the millions of dollars that have been spent by the government intended to ensure that the Olympic spirit is sustained in Australia?

Mr SHEPPARD — No. The millions of dollars aim to strengthen the Olympic spirit to an even greater degree than it already it is.

Miss NICOLAIDIS — The Olympics have not been around for 2000 years — they started in 1896, which was 104 years ago. Maybe you should study your history better.

Mr MOUSTAFA — The ancient Olympic Games began in 770 BC in ancient Greece. They were stopped before 100 BC and resumed in 1896. We agree that they have not been around for 2000 years consistently, but they have been around for a long period of time.

Miss MARCH — Is it not true that SOCOG is applying rigorous drug testing that is detracting from the spirit of the Olympics?

Mr MOUSTAFA — Drug testing could not detract from the Olympic spirit. It just ensures that the spirit stays there and that the people who could possibly detract from it are removed from the games.

Mr DELACRETAZ — Can you tell me exactly what is the Olympic spirit? If it is the honesty and desire to win yourself, then that has definitely gone.

Mr LUTJEN — I repeat, the Olympic spirit is a spirit of peace and goodwill, as reflected by the emergence of the Olympic Games in 770 BC.

Miss MILLER — If the Olympic spirit is a symbol of peace, why do the people holding the Olympics bother employing police and having armies to protect the people going to the Olympics?

Mr LUTJEN — The Olympics bring nations together. I do not see people protected by armies. There might be security guards to protect single individuals, but all in all the Olympics bring nations together.

The ACTING SPEAKER — I thank Brighton Grammar School and Parkdale Secondary College for their contributions. I thank all students who participated in the discussion.

22 August 2000 Students Parliament 49 CLOSING OF STUDENTS PARLIAMENT Miss O’HALLORAN — I move:

That the Students Parliament, at its rising, adjourn until next year on a day and hour to be fixed by the Speaker in conjunction with the Education Office.

Motion unanimously agreed to. Mr HOPKINS — I move:

That this house express its thanks to the Speaker and the parliamentary Education Office for arranging today’s Students Parliament. Motion unanimously agreed to. Miss NEAVE — I move:

That the Students Parliament do now adjourn. The ACTING SPEAKER — I call on Miss Dowling, the Education Officer. Miss DOWLING — I thank honourable members and guests for making a valuable contribution to today’s Students Parliament. I thank all the students for preparing speeches and putting a lot of thought into the issues that have been discussed here today. I also thank your teachers and parents for their support. I thank all the staff who have assisted today’s proceedings. Last week was a sitting week for the real Parliament, as it will be next week, so our staff are very busy. I am grateful for their support. Their work enables this sort of activity to take place to help you learn about our parliamentary system and hopefully spark a bit of interest in you in taking some active role in the years to come. Finally, I thank the members of Parliament who were your Acting Speakers. I particularly thank Ms Barker and Mrs Coote, both of whom came on board at late notice. You can look forward to seeing the proceedings of today’s students Parliament in Hansard. It will be available on the Internet on the Victorian Parliament’s web site in the near future. The ACTING SPEAKER — Before we go, I would like to thank Karen Dowling for the fantastic job she does behind the scenes. I am sure all the teachers and students who have been involved have seen what a huge contribution she makes. She has made being the Acting Speaker easy for me, as no doubt she has done for everyone else. Karen, on behalf of us all, thank you very much. I have enjoyed chairing this session of the Students Parliament. It has been an absolute honour to be with you today. I envy you the opportunity to be in this chamber and have a taste of what it is like. I entered Parliament for the first time last year, so you can imagine what a shock it was for me. You have had a chance to see what it is like at this stage of your lives. I hope there are some budding politicians among you, and perhaps in the future some of you will enter the Parliament in your own right. From the calibre of the work I have seen today I have no doubt that many of you will think about political careers. I invite you to meet your politicians and ask them any questions flowing on from today. I am sure all my colleagues would be pleased to help you or your teachers with anything you need to know. I thoroughly enjoyed the debates and I congratulate all the speakers. Some of the responses — for example, from St Joseph’s College — were absolutely super, and the very quick response about Fiji was particularly impressive. Likewise, the analogy with the bone and the republic was extremely good and quickly attracted our attention. Some very pertinent concerns about drugs and the Olympics were raised. I congratulate the students from Brighton Grammar School and Parkdale Secondary College on their contributions. I thank all of you and hope you enjoyed your time here. I have been most impressed and honoured to be with you today. Motion unanimously agreed to. House adjourned 2.43 p.m.

50 Students Parliament 22 August 2000