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Debates of the House of Commons 43rd PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION House of Commons Debates Official Report (Hansard) Volume 150 No. 102 Friday, May 14, 2021 Speaker: The Honourable Anthony Rota CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 7229 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, May 14, 2021 The House met at 10 a.m. required. What does “free, prior and informed consent” mean if it is not a duty to consult and it is not a veto? Prayer What precisely is meant in the context of this legislation by “free, prior and informed consent” if it is something more than the duty to consult, but something less than a veto? GOVERNMENT ORDERS Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice, Lib.): Madam ● (1005) Speaker, the hon. member has asked this question a number of [Translation] times, and I will give what I believe is the same clear answer that I have given a number of times before. UNITED NATIONS DECLARATION ON THE RIGHTS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ACT FPIC is a process. FPIC is about meaningful consultation, dis‐ BILL C-15—TIME ALLOCATION MOTION cussion and dialogue with indigenous peoples affected by a particu‐ Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and lar decision, say a resource development project, that they be at the Associate Minister of Finance, Lib.) moved: table from the beginning. Yes, there is a duty to consult under That, in relation to Bill C-15, An Act respecting the United Nations Declaration Canadian law. That has had further refinement and guidance from on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, not more than one further sitting day shall be the Federal Court of Appeal in the Trans Mountain process. We, as allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the bill; and a government, were taken to task for not having meaningfully con‐ That, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders sulted the first time through, and we got it right the second time on the day allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the said bill, through. any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amend‐ ment. FPIC is a process. It is going to continue to be a process. It will be contextual, so there is no way to precisely define it at the outset, The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): and there is no way it should be precisely defined at the outset. The Pursuant to Standing Order 67(1), there will now be a 30-minute hon. member knows that. It is about discussion and dialogue. It is question period. about putting indigenous peoples at the table, where, heretofore, I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their they have not— places or to use the raise hand function so the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in the question The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): period. Questions and comments, the hon. member for Saint-Jean. [English] [Translation] The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan. Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Madam Speaker, CPC): Madam Speaker, we are sorry to see the government shut‐ that is a little ironic because, yesterday, when we were debating the ting down debate yet again. I want to ask a specific question about Bloc Québécois's opposition day motion, I talked about how one the legislation, though. can be for a bill but against using closure to pass that bill. Right now in Canadian law, we have a duty to consult around the development of resource projects. The government has said that The same principle applies here. I agree with Bill C‑15. I realize this legislation does not create a veto for all communities that may that it needs to go through quickly. However, I do not agree with be affected. The existing law has duty to consult, and the Liberals the government's approach. It has clearly done a poor job of man‐ are saying it is not a veto. FPIC, the doctrine of free, prior and in‐ aging its legislative calendar, and now it is shutting down debate on formed consent, is ostensibly somewhere in between these two ex‐ a very important subject that many members wanted to speak to. tremes, according to the government, but there is still a lot of clarity We got just two hours of debate on this. 7230 COMMONS DEBATES May 14, 2021 Government Orders Is this because we will not be able to debate it in September be‐ definition so that industry and first nations communities themselves cause there will be an election between now and then? Is that why have an idea of what this means, and then chart a path forward that the government had no choice but to bring in time allocation? is best for them, is quite concerning. Hon. David Lametti: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. col‐ league for her question. The answer is no. This is a priority for the government, for in‐ digenous peoples, and for indigenous leaders across the country. Why will the government not do its work and get that definition done here so it is not challenged in the courts later, further delaying The fact is, we have already covered this. We have already debat‐ this process? ed the substance of Bill C‑15 because we debated its previous itera‐ tion, Bill C‑262, which was introduced by our former colleague, Romeo Saganash. The previous Parliament passed that bill after a debate to which the Bloc Québécois contributed its opinion. Hon. David Lametti: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous for his work on committee. The answer is the same. The best expert Peoples itself has been around for 15 years, so it is not new. opinions we have received throughout this and the most convincing arguments made have been that FPIC should not be defined in the [English] legislation, cannot be defined in the legislation, because the very Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP): nature of FPIC is in a process. Madam Speaker, the government is certainly using speed to get this bill through. Fair enough, but one wonders why it does not use speed to resolve community issues that have come up. First nations communities have desperate need to end boil water advisories, and we have heard the government is now extending the deadline. For We said from the beginning that we would consult as many in‐ over a decade, first nations communities continue to wait for that digenous leadership groups as we possibly could before the tabling government support. Indigenous-led housing is also something the of the bill. We did that. Those groups had an impact on the form of government has not tackled with any speed whatsoever, and we the bill before it was tabled. We continued to consult after the bill have seen first nations kids taken repeatedly to court rather than was tabled, and the indigenous groups, in making appearances at having their basic needs met. committee and in working with the government, have proposed a number of amendments, many of which we have accepted. Again, The question is very simple. Liberals are using speed when it that consultation process continues, and the consultation process comes to this bill. Why do they not use the same speed to meet the with indigenous leadership groups across Canada will continue as needs of indigenous peoples in this country? we move through the action plan and the co-development of it. ● (1010) Hon. David Lametti: Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his support on this bill generally, as well as the support of his party. I obviously also salute the work that Romeo Saganash did in the Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Presi‐ last Parliament and continues to do in support and promotion of this dent of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of bill. Intergovernmental Affairs and to the Leader of the Govern‐ ment in the House of Commons, Lib.): Madam Speaker, the We are working hard to solve infrastructure problems, drinking Truth and Reconciliation Commission has called upon all levels of water problems. We have done a great deal of work on it, but we government in Canada to adopt and implement the UN declaration have admitted honestly that more work needs to be done. The same as the framework for reconciliation. I am wondering if the minister is true for resolving cases around Jordan's principle. We are work‐ could provide his thoughts as to why it is so important in moving ing very hard to resolve those cases out of court where possible, forward with reconciliation that the Government of Canada and the and we are doing our best to move all of those files forward. Prime Minister continue to push this bill so it ultimately can get I think the hon. member and I share the same end point and the passed. same goals, and we are pushing hard to make them happen. Mr. Jamie Schmale (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, CPC): Madam Speaker, I share the concern on this side of the House at the way the government is ramming through this piece of Hon. David Lametti: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member legislation. We heard at committee many times from indigenous for his commitment to the reconciliation process generally.
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