Wednesday, 22nd September, 1954
LOK SABHA DEBATES
(Part I-Questions and Answers)
VOLUME IV, 1954
[
SEVENTH SESSION
1 9 5 4
LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS
Volume IV — From 23rd August to 24th September i 9S4
COLOMMS.
Monday, 23rd August, 1954- ' Oral Answers to Questions— Statred Questions Nos, i to 5, 7, 10, 24, 3I; 12 to 17, 19, 21 to 23, 25 to 27, 29, 32» 33 “ id 35 . ■ • • i —33 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 6, 8, 11, 18, 20, 28, 30, 34 • • 33 37 Unstarred Questions Nos. i to 5, 7 to 17 , . . • • 37—4^ f'uesday, 24th August, Z9S4- Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 36 to 39, 41 to 43, 43 to 54, 56 to 60, 62, 63, 65 to 76, 78 to 81 and 83 . . . . 47“ ^8 Short Notice Questions Nos. 1 to 3 . . . . 88—94 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 40, 44, 55, 61, 64, 77, 82 and 84 . 94—98 Unstarred Questions Nos. 18 to 38,40 to 43. . . . 98—112
Wednesday, 25th August, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 85 to 90, 127, 91 to 93, 95 to 103, 105 to 112, 124, 113 and 1 1 4 ...... 113—49 Short Noticc Question No. 4 . . . 149—^51 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 104, 115 to 123, 125, 126 and 128 to M O ...... 151—63 Unstarred Questions Nos. 44 to 48, 50 to 59, 61 aod 62 . 163—72 ' Thursday, 26th, August 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 141 to 145, 147 to 161, i6$ and 165 *0 1 7 8 ...... 173—210 Short Noticc Question No. 5 ...... a 10____12 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 146, 162, 164 and 179 to 185 . . 213—x8 Unstarred Questions Nos. 63 to 7 4 ...... 219—24
(i) (ii)
COLPMNS Friday, 27th August, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions—
Starred Questions Nos. 186, 227, 187 to 201, 203, 205, 217, 206, 207, 209 to 216, 218 ana 219 . . . . . 225—62 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 202, 204, 220 to 226 and 228 to 230 262—68 Unstarrcd Questions Nos. 75 to 103 .... 268—86 Monday 30th August, J9S4:
Oral Answen to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 231 to 234, 236, 238 to I48, 250 to 252, 255 to 257, 259, 260, 262 265. . . 287—324 Wiitten Answers to Questions—
Starred Questions Nos. 235, 249, 254, 258, 261, 266 to ^ 371, 273, 274, 276, 277 to 2 7 9 ...... 324—33 ^Unstarred Questions Nos. 106 to 117, 119 to 128 . 333—48 Tuesday, 31st August, 1954
Oral Answers to Questions—
Starred Questions Nos. 280 to 287, 289 to 301, 304, 306, 308, to 311, 313, 314, 3j6, 318 to 320. . . . 349—87 Written Answers to Questions-- ' Starredj^Questions Nos. 288. 302, 303, 307, 315,317, 321 to 3 3 2 ...... 3 8 7 — 9 7 Unstarrcd Questions Nos. 129 to 151. . . 397—4©8
Wednesday, ist September, 1954 Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 333, 335, 336, 338, to 343. 343. 347. 348, 358. 349. 350, 352. 353, 355. 356. 359, 36o, 363 to 366, 369 to 372, 374, 376 to 378. . . . 409—48 Short Notice Question No. 6 ...... 448—50 Written Answers to Questions— ’
Starred Questions Nos.334, 337, 344, 346, 351. 354. 357. 361, 362, 367. 368, 373. 375. 379 to 393 . . . 451—64 Unstarred Questions Nos. 152 to 156, 139 to 200 . . 464—9* (iii) C o l u m n s Thursday, 2nd September, 1954 ' Oral Answers to Questioivs— Starred Questions Nos. 396> 39« to 401, 403 to 40?» 409. 410, 413 to 415, 418 to 420, 424, 438, 425 to 427> 429> 432, 434. 435. 437 ...... 493—533 Written Answer* to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 397, 402, 408, 411, 4I2» 4 i6> 4 i7> 421 to 423. 428, 433, 436, 439 to 441 . . . 5 3 3 -^ 0 Unstarred Questions Nos. 201 to 219 .... 540—50 Friday, 3rd September, 1954 • Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 442, 445 to 456, 458, 460 to 466, 468, 470, 47i> 473» 475. 477 to 482. . . . 551—88 Short Notice Question No. 7 .... 588—91 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 443, 444, 457, 459, 467, 469. 472. 474, 476, ^ 3 to 5 0 4 ...... 592—608 Unstarred Questions Nos. 220 to 232, 234 to 241 . . 608—20 Monday, 6th September, 1954 • Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 506, 507, 509 to 516, 519 to 521, 526, 528, 529. 533. 535. 539. 54«. 54f. 549. 550. 552, to 555. 561, 564. 5 6 5 ...... 621—58 Written Answers to Questions Starred Questions Nos, 505, 508, 517, 518,522 to 525, 527, 530 to 532. 534. 536 to 338. 540. 542 to 546, 548, 551. 556 to 560, 562, 563, 566 to 575...... 658—78 Unstarred Questions Nos, 242 to 274 .... 678—94 Tuesday, jth September, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos, 577, 579, 581 to 584, 586, 587, 589. 591 to 594, 602, 608, 606, 607, 609, 612, 634, 635,
613 to 615, 620 to 623, 626, 628, 629, 633 . . . 6 9 5 — 7 3 1 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos, 576, 578, 580, 585. 588, 590, 595 to
6ot, 603, 604, 610, 616 to 619, 624,625,627, 630 to 632, 7 3 1 — 4 4 Unstarred Questions Nos, 275 to 282, 284 to 291, 293 to 295 744—54 (Iv)
C o l u m n s Wednesday, 8th September, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 636, 638 to 640, 642 to 647, 650, 651. 655 to 657/661 to 664, 667, 668. 670 to 675, 677, 678, 681 to 684...... 753—92 Short Notice Question No. 8 ...... 793-94 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 637,641, 648, 649, 633, 634, 638 to 660, 665, 666, 669, 676, 679, 680, 685 to 697 . . 795—808 Unstarred Questions Nos. 296 to 326 . . . . > 808— 26 Friday, loth September, I 9S4 - Oral Answe rs to Questions— Starred Qu stions Nos. 698, 700 10703, 70310716,720, 717, 722, 724, 723, 727, 730 to 733, 738, 740, 741, 744. 763. 745 and 7 4 6 ...... 8*7—64 Short Notice Question No. 9 ...... 864“ 66 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 699> 704. 718, 719. 723* 7*6, 728, 729. 734 to 737. 739. 74a, 743. 747 to 761, 763 to 771. 8 67-« 8 Unstarred Questions Nos. 327 to 3 7 9 ...... 888— 912 Saturday, n th September, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— • Starred Questions Nos. 772 to 774, 776 to 782, 783, 809, 788, 789. 791. 793. 795 to 797, 799 to 805, 807, 811 to 813, 816 to 8 1 8 ...... 9 1 3 — 5 1
Short Notice Question No. 10 ...... 9 3 1 — 3 4 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 773, 784, 786. 7«7. 79». 794. 798, 806, 808 and 810...... 9 5 4 — 5 8 Unstarred Questions Nos. 380 to 398, 401 to 403 . 9 3 9 — 72 Monday, 13th September, I 9S4 - Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 819, 821 to S31, 833 to 833. 837» 839. 842 to 844. 847 to 836, 838, 860 to 862 . . . .9 7 3 — 10 0 9 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 820, 832.836,838, 840,841.843. 846, 837.863 to 8 7 3 ...... • •lOOSH-ai Unstarred Questions Nos. 404 to 4 2 9 ...... 1 0 2 1— 3 6 (V)
Ttusday, 14th September, 1954- Co l u m n s Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. P78 to 880, 883 to 890, 89a, 893, 896, 901 to 907, 910, 911, 911-A. 9 » to 915, 917, 919, 920, 923, 924, 926 and 877 ...... 1037—72 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 876, 881, 882, 891. 894, 895, 897 to 900, 908, 909, 918, 921, 922 and 9 2 5 ...... 1072—79 Unstarred Questions Nos. 430 to 46a . . r . 1079—96 Wednesday, 15th September, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 928,930, 932 to 940, 944, 945, 948 to 959, 961, 962, 964 and 965 . . . . 1097-X134 Written Answers to Questions— Starrcd^Questions^Nos.; 927,[^929, 93*. 94 * to 943, 946, 947, 963, 966 to 979, 981 to 986,7783. 790, 814 and 815 . . 1134—48 Unstarred Questions Nos. 463 to 485, 487 and 488 . ^ . 1149—62 Thursday, i6th September, J9S4- Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 987,990 to 996, 998, 999, 1002 to 1004, 1036, 1005 to 1008, loio, 1013, 1016 to 1025, 1027 to 1 0 2 9 ...... 1163—1202 Short Notice Question No. 1 1 . .... 1202—05 Written ^sw ers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 988, [989. 997, 1000, 1009, ion, 1012, 1014, 1015, 1026, 1030 to 1035. 1037 to 1043 , . . 1205—18 Unstarred Questions Nos. 489 to 5 1 1 ...... 1218—30 Friday, 17th September, 1954- Oral Answers Questions-— Starred Questions Nos. 1044, 1046 to 1055, 1057 to io6o, 1062 to 1064, 1067, 1068, 1071 to 1078, 1080 to 1085 • • • 1231—68 Short Notice Question No. la. • .... fi268—71 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1045, 1056, 1061, 1065, 1066, 1070, 1076,1086 to 1105 ...... r27i—84 Unstaned Questions Nos. 512 to 546...... 1284—1304 (Vi)
Monday^ 20th September, 1954. Ck)UiMNS Oral Answers to Questions-- Starred Questions Nos. 1106 to 1110, 1112, 1114, 1122, H24 to 1126,1129. ii 3i> 1134. ” 36> ii3 9 to 1143, 1145 to 1147, 1149, 1150, 1137, 1127, 1135, 1121, J I30, 1138 and 1 1 2 8 ...... 1305-44 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1113, 1115 to 1117, 1119, 1123, 1130, 1144 and 1148 ...... r , . 1344-48 Unstarred Questions Nos. 547 to 567 . . . . 1348—te Tuesday, 2ist September, 1954- Oral Answers to Questions— ' Starred Questions Nos. 1131 to 1153,1155, 1137,1158, I160, I161,1163, 1167 to 1170,1173, II74> 1176, II77,1179 to 1187, 1189 to 1191.1194,1195,1198, II99> 1201,1203 and 1154 . 1363—1402 Short Notice Question No. 13 . . . . 1402 -05 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1156,1139,1162,1164,1165,1166,1171, 1172, 1175, 1178, 1188, 1192, 1193, 1196, Ii97> I2C0,1202 and 1 2 0 4 ...... 1405--12 Unstprrcd Questions Nos. 568 to 593 .... 1412—26
Wednesday, 22nd September, J954- Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1206, 1209, 1210,1215,1217, 1219, 1220,1223 to 1226,1228 to 1230,1232 to 1239,1241 to 1243, 1247 to 1249,1251 to 1253,1253, 1257 and 1259 . . 1427-66 Short Notice Question No. 1 4 ...... 1466—69 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1205,1207, 1208,1211, 1212 to 1214, 1216, 1218,1221, 1222,1227,1231, 1240,1246, 1250,1254, 1256,1238 and 1 2 6 0 ...... 1469—79 Unstarred Questions Nos. 394 to 648 .... 1479—1306
Thursday, 23rd September, X954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1261,1263 to 1270,1272,1276,1277, 1279, 1280, 1284. 1286, 1288, 1289, 1291 to 1300,1273, 1274 and 1 1 1 8 ...... 1507—43 (vn)
Written Answers to Questions— C o l u m n s Starred Questions Nos. 1262,1271,1278,1281 to 1283 and 1290 1543—48 Unstarred Questions Nos. 649 to 679 .... 1548—66 Friday, 24th September, 1954. Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1301, 1303,1305 to 1310, 1312 to I3I4» 1316, 1318, 1320, 1321, 1323, 1324j 1326,1328,1330, I33i» 1333 to 1336,1338 to 1341, 1343 and I344 • • 1567-1605
Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1302, 1304, 1311,1315, 1317,1319, 1322,1329,1332,1337 and 1 3 4 2 ...... i6o6~ii Unstaircd Questions Nos. 680 to 706, 708 to 714 . . 1611—28 LOK SABHA DEBATES f.> ♦- (Part I—Questions and Answcrtj^^
1427 1428 LOK SABHA during the current year cannot be es- timated at present as proposals for the Wednesday, 22nd September, 1954 grant of loans are still awaited from a number of State Governments. y'he Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Dr. Ram Subbag Singh: May I Clock know whether the amount which is proposed to be given to the local [Mr. S pe a k e r in the Chair] bodies will also be ^iven to the dis- fORAL a n s w ?:r s t o q u e s t i o n s trict boards, becau^^e most of the over-bridges and under-bridges are An d h e r i-Bo r w l i Rail w a y L in e going to be constructed in the rural •^1206. Shri Gidwani: Will the Min- areas? ister of Railways be pleased to state Shri Alagesan: That is so. The when the work of electrification of cost of these bridges will have to be the Andheri-Borivli through line on borne by the local bodies. Instead of the Western Railway will be taken in making a loan dircct to the local ^ hand? bodies, we advance the loan to the The Parliamentary Secretary to the State Government, who in turn will Minister of Railways "and Transport advance the loan to the local bodies. (Siiri Shahnawaz Khan): The work Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I will be taken in hand soop after the know on what basis these loans are monsoons. going to be advanced, whether the Loans to Local Bodies cost of construction of the bridges is taken into account, or the loans are t, '1209. Dr. Ram Subhag: Sinjfh: going to be advanced only on an Will the Minister of Transport be ad hoc basis? pleased to state: Shri Alagesan: No, the shore of the (a) whether it is a fact that Gov- cost of these bridgcr *11 be taken into ernment propose to advance loans to consideration befoi^ %vancing these certain local bodies in the States for loans. enabling them to meet their share of the cost of construction of over- Ca nce r Re s e a r c h Ce n t r e , Bo mb a y bridges and under-bridges to replace Railway level-crossings; and M210. Shri Krishnacharya Joshi: Will the Minister of Health be pleas- ^ (b) if so, what is the estimated ed to state w'hat are the main items amount to be giv«n during 1964-607 of research carricd on in the Cancer The Deputy Minister of Railways Research Centre at Bombay? and Transport (Shri Alacesan); (a) The Minister of Health (Rajkumarl Yes. Amrit Kaur): A statement is laid on (b) An amount of Rs. 50 lakhs has the Table of the House. [See Ap- been earmarked in the provision made pendix VIII, annexure No, 1.] in the Five Year Plan for the grant of such loans during 1954-53 and 1955- 8m i Kriahnaeliarya Joahi: May I 56. The amount to be given as loans know whether any new method of 390 L.S.D. 1429 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1430
treatment of cancer has been found would not be consistent with the out? general rules which the Ministry has issued. Hence, this is under con- Rajknmari Amrit Kaur: No. Re- sideration by both these Ministries. search is being done all the time, but actually no startling new remedy has TO ^ 0 j W 3IH been found. Shri Krishnacharya Joshi: May I know whether it is a fact that smok- ing also is one of the causes of this cancer? 4o 4o ff, f I Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I do not think we need enter into a discus- ^ th^RT vH if I sion of that matter. Shri Thimmaiah: May I know M inimum Wages Rules whether Government would consider giving grant to the port authorities to M215. Ch. Raghubir Singh: WiU enable them to meet the wages bill? the Minister of Labour be pleased to state; Shri K. K. Desai: I want notice of (a) whether it is a fact that the this question. ^ Port Trusts of Calcutta and Bombay Greches are experiencing certain practical diffi- culties in giving effect to the pro- ^1217. Pandit Munishwar Datt visions of the Minimum Wages Upadhyay: Will the Minister of (Central) Rules, 1950; and Labour be pleased to state: (b) if so, what steps Government (a) whether the Planning Commis- propose to take to remove these diffi sion has made any provision for culties? creches for working mothers, in in- ^ dustrial institutions: and The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. Desal): (a) (b) what is the scheme and how and (b). Certain diffi- far it is being implemented during culties have been pointed out and it the first phase of the Plan? is proposed that these should be studied by representatives of the Mi- The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K nistry of Transport and the Ministry Desai): (a) The responsibility for of Labour on the soot with a view providing creches is on the employers^ to suggesting soeciel Rules which and so no separate financial provision would protect the interests of labour has been made in the Plan for this and at the same time would fit in purpose, with the special conditions under (b) Creches are to be provided which some of the Port Trust labour under the Factories Act, 1948 (Section has to work. 48), the Mines Act, 1952 (Section 58) Ch. Raghubir Singh: May J know and the Plantations Labour Act. 1951 what the main difficulties are? (Section 12). 425 creches were open- ed in factories and 164 in mines (119 Shri K. K. Desai: As the hon. Mem- in coal mines and 45 in mines other ber knows, the work of dock labour than coal mines) upto December. 1952. ^ under the Port Trusts is to keep the port clear for the incoming and out- Pandit Munishwar Datt Upadhyay: going vessels, and therefore, the Upto what age of the child are these maritime crew^s who have to put in creches provided? this (work have to work over-time Shri K. K. Desai: Upto the age of even at night. At the same time, the six years. lighthouses are under the charge of the ifort Trusts .i Therefore, this Pandit Munishwar Datt Upadhyay: work has to be done in a way which May I know after how many months I43I Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 19j4 Oral Answers 1432
of delivery the mothers are allowed to (b) if so, what is the value of work in factories? stores with the Central Tractor Or- ganisation on the 1st August, 1954? ShH K. K. Desai: Six weeks after the delivery, they are entitled to work The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. in factories, according to the law. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. Sir. ^ Shri N. B. Chowdhury: May I know (b) Stores and other capital assets whether Government have taken any are valued every year as on 31st steps to see that the legal provision March for the purpose of preparation regarding the responsibility of the of commercial accounts. The accounts employers to provide creches is being fqr the financial year 1953-54 are still implemented? under compilation, but on the basis of the provisional balance-sheet of the Sliri K. K. Desai: That is the func- Central Tractor Organisation as on tion of the Factory Inspection Depart- 31st March, 1954, closing balance of ments of the States. As far as the only stores would come to Central Government are concerned, Rs. 1,62,38,148. 209 prosecutions have already been ^ made in the mines where these cre- Shri Bahadur Singh: Is it true ches have not been provided according that there is accumulation of a huge to the statute. surplus of spare parts, equipment and stores lying with the Central Tractor Shri P. C, Bose: May I know what Organisation, and if so, what is the percentage of the creches has already value of those surplus stores, spare been built under the Indian Mines Act, parts, etc.? What arc the reasons for the Indian Factories Act, and the Plantations Labour Act? these being surplus? Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Now, we are ^ Shri K. K. Desai: I think the num- pursuing a policy of declaring what- ber is given in the main answer. ever is surplus to our requirements, Shri P. C. Bose: I wanted to know and at the moment, I think, we have the percentage of creches that have very little of this sort of stores left. been provided, and also the percent- Shri Bahadur Singh: 1 wanted to age of creches that have yet to be know the reasons for these stores provided. being surplus? ‘ Shri K. K. Desai: J could not follow Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: It would be the question. difficult for me to mention them in Mr. Speaker: Out of the total num- reply to a question. ber of mines that have to provide cre- ches, how many have provided cre- Shri Bahadur Singh: Are there ches, and how many have not provi- some stocks which have not yet been ded cheches, and therefore What is the opened, and if so, what is the value percentage? That is what the hon. Of those stocks? Member wants. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There are hardly any stocks unopened now. Shri K. K. Desai: I have not got that ^information at this stage. Shri T. N. Singh: May I know whe- ther reconciliation of the stores bal- S u r p l u s S t o r e s ances with actual physiicaH checking ^1219. Shri Bahadur Singh: Will has been carried out during any of the Minister of Food and Agricul these years, and if so, what does the ture be pleased to state: position disclose? (a) whether an inventory of the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: This is a pro- materials stocked by the Central cechire which has been continued for Tractor Organisation has been com- a number of years, and it is almost pleted so far; and nearing completion. Oral Ansu^ers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Ansi.ers 1434 1433 rcK ^ ff, it ^ n! ^ 13} ^ ^ HT^rranr: q? ^ ^ ’R 5iT«nft HWTT ^ 1^1 fsriv a r ^ aift air 'cT#
necessity for this stall, and if which i^ likely one way or the other did have, why they did not recruit it to a fleet the result by way of infer- in time? ence will not be permissible now. If he wanis any other information, he Shri Ala^esan; Yes. The adminis- may ask for it. tration placed a demand for 400 men. The Railway Service Commission was Shri Jethalal Joshi: May I put an- able to offer about 350 as probation- other question? ary ASMs. They were medically exa- mined and out of these, about half Mr. Speaker: Yes. the number had been disqualified. Shri Jethalal Joshi: Are the Gov- The rest are undergoing, training. So ernment aware that due to delay in this sHorta^?e has to be filled only by applying measures promptly), another having the superannuated men in ser- ship also has run agrouncf shortly vice for a little more time. after that? Shri Viswanatha Reddy: May I Shri Alftgesan: I do not have any know if the Government are in a such information. position to assure us that in view of the employment position in the coun- Shri S. N. Das: May I know whe- try, this sort of procedure will be a ther as a result of the report receiv- very rare and exceptional one and ed, any action has been suggested, and will not be a common feature? if so, what is that action that is going to be taken? Shri Alagesan; 1 can assure the hon. Member that we will (fo everything Shri Alagesao: First a preliminary in our power to see that recruitment inquiry is held. If that is considered keeps pace with the demand. We have sufficient, it is left there and action also increased the number of Service is taken. Otherwise, subsequently a Commissions recently. formal inquiry is held. It has been Steamship “Bharat Bala’* decided to have a subsequent formal inquiry in this case. There are two *1224. Shri Jethalal JoshI: Will the inquiries envisaged under the Act. Minister of Transport be pleased to refer to the reply to starred question Water Supply in Imphal No. 1788 asked on the 14th April, 1954 and state the result of the preliminary ^1225. Shri Rishang Keishing: Will inquiry instituted to find out the cir- the Minister of Health be pleased to cumstances in which the steamship state: "‘Bharat Bala” ran aground? (a) whether Government are aware The Deputy Minister of Railways of the insufficiency of the tap water and Transport (Shri Alagesan): On a supply in the town of Imphal; consideration of the Report of Preli- minary Inquiry held by the Mdfcan- (b) if so, what steps are being taken tile Marine Department, Bombay, it to increase the water supply there; has been decided to hold a formal in- and vestigation under section 248 of the Ind'ian Merchant Shipping Act, 1923. (c) what were the causes of its The matter is, therefore, aub judice failure in the past? now. The Minister of Health (Rajkumart Shri Jefhalal JToshl: Is it a fact Amrtt Kanr); (a) Yes. that there is great silting in the Gulf (b) A scheme for the improvement of Cambay which may be the cause of of water supply in Imphal Town is the ship running aground and are the under consideration. Government...... (c) Government of India Bxe not Mr. Speaker: Order, order. The matter is under inquiry. So anything aware of any such failure. 1437 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1964 Oral Answers ShTi Ristaamr Keishinff: May 1 know whether the Government are aware that some of the villages and ffTTT ^ ^ ^ Trftr areas of bazaar in the town of Imphal consisting of 50 to 100 families have * been refused water supply in spile of ^ frqr h : their repeated joint requests to the authorities, whereas independent water supply has been given to some of the Government officers who have H’STTHT ^ ^ got residential quarters in the Imphal town area? ^ t ;
Rajkumari Amrlt Kaur: I am not ( ^ ) ^ aware of the differentiation that has been made, as alleged by the hon. Member. But a scheme for water ^ srsrrn ^ ^ supply came to us and we asked the Government of Manipur to send us detailed estimates. They could not carry out the work themselves. They (^t ) ^ qififr said that either the Government of a m sr^n Assam or the Government of West Bengal should do the work. The Gov- fw r w I ? ernment of Assam was unable to do it. The Government of West Bengal sent The Minister of Health (Rajkumari estimates, which, in our opinion, were Amrit Kaur): (a) The total amount very high. Now. because the CPWD allocated so far by the United Nations have set up their own Department in Children’s Emergency Fund for Mater- Assam, new estimates have come. nity and Child Welfare Services in They have been sent to the Chief India is dollars 3*35 millions. Commissioner and as soon as we get a detailed reply from him as to the (b) No information is available iri best source of water supply, the sche- respect of the Obstetrical instruments me will be taken in hand. supplied to the institutions located in rural areas. The number of institu- tions (rural as well as urban) to Shri Rishang Keishing: May I which the equipments and supplies re- know whether Government will give ceived from the UNICEF have been due consideration to such joint re- allocated is as follows:— quest of the people for water supply in the respective localities? Maternity and Child Health Centres 1255 Rajkumari Amiit Kaur: Certainly. Money has been set aside for water Midwifery Schools 79 supply and the Government concerned Nursing Schools , 70. has only to ask. It will be given help. (c) The training for Nurses and Midwives is provided b y the Training Shri Amjad All: May 1 know wkat Schools run b y the Government of is the target of per capita consump- India, State Governments, Local Bo- tion of water supply in the town of dies or Philanthropic Organisations Imphal? and not b y the UNICEF. The latter are rendering assistance in this pro- Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: I am afraid gramme by providing useful teaching I could not give that information. equipments 1439 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1440
Shri M. L. Dwivedi: May 1 know doctors are ordinarily allowed to con- how many institutions have been es- duct surgical operations in Railway tablished by the Centre and by the Hospitals. In cases of emergencies States in India under this scheme? when a Railway Doctor in attendance considers it necessary to consult any Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: I could! Specialist or other Medical Officer in not give the number because it is im- the Service of Government, he can possible to say how many new insti- call him in the Railway Hospital for ^tutions we have established. But I consultation. can tell the hon. Member about the number of institutions that are being Shri Muniswamy: May I know whe- helped under this scheme. ther it has come to the notice of Gov- ernment that the Chief Medical Officer Shri M. L. Dwivedi: May I know of Southern Railway at Madras under- if any work has been started in the went a surgical operation by a non- rural areas under this scheme, as has railway doctor and if so, what are the been replied to by the hon. Minister? reasons? If so, in what States and what centres? Shri Shahnawas Khan: Rajkuuiari Amrit Kaur: Yes; this There are thing has come to our notice, Dr. Soma tso many centres where this scheme Sekhar who was the Chief Medical has been started. There are 51 centres Officer, Southern Railway, was operat- of training schools for midwives who ed upon by Dr. C. V. Menon who was . are receiving assistance. There are honorary surgeon to the Government 28 midwives’ schools supplied with General Hospital; also a Government 30 varieties of teaching equipments hospital. and they are spread over the whole of India in all the States. Then there Shri Muniswami: May I know... ^are training schools for nurses to the ^extent of 50. Again there are training Mr. Speaker: Order, order. We will schools who have been supplied with go to the next question. I do not pro- teaching equipment to the tune of 20. pose to allow any other personal ques- tion of that kind. Shri M. L. Dwivedi: HOw many Asian countries are to benefit under T u r m e r ic R e s e a r c h S t a t io n this scheme and what are the coun- *1229. Shri Sanganna: Will the tries that are contributing to the Minister of Food and Agriculture be "scheme? pleased to state: Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: No Asian (a) whether it is a fact that the countries are contributing to our de- Turmeric Research Station at G velopment. The equipment is provid- Udayagiri (Orissa) has been subsi- ed by ITNCIEF and the rest, practical- dized to the extent of 75 per cent, of ly, we do ourselves. the entire expenditure thereof, by the Central Government; and R a il w a y H o s p it a l s (b) if so, what kind of control Gov- *1228. Shri Muniswamy: Will the ernment have over this institute? ^Minister of Railways be pleased to The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. state the policy in the matter of allow- S. Deshmukh): (a) The recurring ex- ing doctors other than those employed penditure from 1944-45 to 1948-49 was by the Railways either in permanent shared by the Indian Council of Agri- or honorary capacity to undertake cultural Research Bnd the State Gov- surgical operations in Railway Hos- ernment in the proportion of 75 ; 25 pitals? and thereafter on 50 :50 basis. The ParliamenUry Secretary to the (b) The institute Is directly admi Bilnister of Railways and Transport nistered by the State Government* (Shri ShBhnawas Khan): No outside but the technical programme and 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1442 1441 Oral Ayisioers progress reports on the work done at (b) During the year 1953, 21 such the institute arc scrutinised by the cases were detected on the Eastern. Indian Council of Agricultural Re- North-Eastern, Northern, Southern search, and guidance igiven. and Western Railways. Suitable dis- ciplinary action has already been taken Shri Sanganna; May I know whe- in twelve cases. The charges have liot ther any officer of the Government of been proved in two case.s and further India has . ever inspected this institute inyl\siigation is progressing in regard and if so. What is his impression about to others. So far as the Central Rail- the working of this institute? way is concerned, the information Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I must ask for is under collection and will be placed notice of this question, Sir. on the Table of the Mouse, on receipt.
Shri Sangaima: May I know what ^ 0 IJlfo irFUnfl" : ^ 'JflH ^r^r^TT ^ benefits have been reaped from this Turmeric Research Institute and what arrangements have been for extension of services from this institute? Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: It is alwayi i w vrfWT a t ^ our aim to translate the results of scientific investigation for better plan- tation and better looking after of agri- ^ ?Nn ^ ^ 1 7 cultural processes; but I cannot say what exactly has been done. WFwmr w : »rnr anf^ fr*r # I Shri Sanganna; May I know whe- ther any progress reports have been Diwan Raghavendra Rao: May I deceived by Gk>vemmenl» n d li sa know if Government are aware that what are the reactions of Government the co-sharers of these Ticket Check- in respect of these? ers are found in Station Masters, Guards and railway police, and how Dr. P. S. Deshmukh. As has been Government try to find out these peo- stated in my reply, we have got pro- ple? gress reports from time to time and we have no reason to believe that they Shri Shahnawaz Khan: As I have arc unsatisfactory. just stated, 21 cases have come to our notice and we are taking very severe disciplinary action against them. Several Hon. Members rose— ^ ^ ^ ^ frqr fk : Mr. Speaker; Order, order. I (2p) ^ q-srt think we better go to the next ques- tion. t ‘, 3fk arrJT ^ K o l a r G o l d F i e l d W o r k e r s *1232. Shri M. S. Oumpadaswamy: Will the Minister of Labour be pleas- ed to state: ( ^ ) ?t, (a) the pay scale of labourers work- ing in Kolar Gold fields; i t ^ ? (b) whether Government have re- ceived any representation from the The ParHamentary Secretary to the workers in regard to their pay scale; Mliilffter of Rallwaya aa« TransiHnrt and The Minister of Labour (Shri K. (b) whether the people of the K. Dosai): (a) A statement showing Hyderabad State have also made any the scales of wages and clearness representation in this connection; and aJiowanie of workmen in Kolar Gold (c) if so, which of those recom- Fields is placed on tlxe Table of the mendations have been accepted? House. [See Appendix VIII, annex- ure No. 2,] The ParliameDtary Secretary to the (b) and (c). An industrial dis> Minister of Railways apd Transport pute was raised by the workmen and (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) The Government have referred it to an following lines have been recom- Industrial Tribunal for adjudication. mended:— Shil M. S. Gunipadaswamy: May (1) Ramagundam to Nizamabad. I know when this tribunal will decide (2) Gadag to Kothagudium Rai- or is expected to decide in the rase? chur Gadwal. Shri K. K. Desai: We understand (3) Jalna to Bhir to Osmanabad that the tribunal has already gone to and on to Sholapur and con- Bangalore on the 19th of this month. nection with the Parlivaij- SIhri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: May nath line. I know whether there is any interim (4) Adilabad to Rajpura. relief given to these labourers in regard to wages, allowance etc.? 15) Macherla to Nalgonda and \ on to Hyderabad-Dronachel- Shri K. K. Desai: Now that the lam line. question has been referred to the tribunal, it is for them to decide (6)) Wadi to Bijapur. whether any relief is to be given. (b) Yes, Sir. Shri M. S. Gunipadaswamy: 1 want to know whether there was any (c) No final decision has yet been demand by the lat>ourers there for reached. any interim relief and whether Gov- ernment have considered that de- Diwan Ra^havendra Rao: May I mand? , know when the Sholapur-Jalna line is likely to be taken for construction? Shri K. K. Desai: As I said, the question of the whole dispute has Shri Shahnawaz Khan: We have been referred to the tribunal. not taken any decision on the matter Shri T. B. VHtal Rao: The point yet. is, whether under the terms of re- ference, grant of interim relief is Diwan Raffhavendra Rao: May 1 included? know if Government are aware that the railway line hardly touches the Shri K. IL Desai: The demands districts of Bhir and Osmanabad and which were made by the workers as such the districts remain unde- were: revision of wages, termination veloped economically? May I also of gratuity and bonus for the year icnow what criteria are there to de- 1952. All these three terms of re- cide the priority in giving preference ference were referred to the tribunal. to construction of railway lines.
N b w R a il w a y L in e s i n H y d b r a b a d Shri Shahnawaz Khan: As I have ♦1238. Dtwan BaghaTeiidra Rm : already stated, no decision has yet Will the Minister of RaUwajf be been taken. I am sure when any pleased to state: final decision is taken, all these factors will be taken into consider- (a) the recommendations that have ation. be^n made by the Hyderabad Govern ment for the construction of new S M K. K. Bum: May I know Railway lines in the State; whether, when oonstruetion of new 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1446 1445 Oral Answers lines is taken up, the opinion of Displaced Railway Employees State Governments is taken or the n235. Shrl T. B. Vittal Rao: Will Railway Department themselves de- the Minister of Railways be pleased cide the construction of new lines? to refer to the answer to Starred The Minister of Railways and Question No. 1581 asked on the 5th Transport (Shrl L. B. Sbastri): The April, 1954 and state: opinion of State Governments is al- (a)' whether the examination of the ways takenand in fact we have judgment of Bombay High Court addressed all the State Governments wherein it was held that “Railway to indicate their priority as well as a Employees who had opted for service list of new lines which they want to in Pakistan and made their final choice be constructed in their States. in favour of service in India within prescribed time were entitled to their DiLIiQATION TO AFGHANISTAN wages from the day they reported on nS34. Shrl K. C. Sodhla: Will the duty”, has since been concluded; Communications Minister of be pleas- (b) if so, the decision arrived at; ed to state: and (a) whether any Indian Service personnel have been deputed to (c) the number of such employees Afghanistan to operate the Communi- who have not been paid such wages? cations and Meteorological Stations at Kabul; The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Ala^esan): (a) (b) if so, their number and the to (c). The matter is under consider- period of deputation; and ation. (c) whether any financial liability devolves on Government in respect of Shri T. B. VitUl Rao: May I know the deputationists and if so, how when this protracted consideration much? . will reach a stage of finality because The Deputy Minister of Communi this question has been hanging fire for well over five years and it has cations (Sbri Raj Bahadur): (a) to been raised in this very House so (c ) The question of rendering assist- many times? ance to the Afghanistan Government in the establishment of Aeronautical Shri Alagesan: The hon. Member Gomniunication and meteorological himself put a question and referred faL-ilities at Kabul and Kandahar by to the judgment of the Bombay High providing nccessary equipment and Court as a result of which this matter technical personnel to install and has now come under consideration. operate it. is under consideration. This judgment, I understand, has Negotiations in the matter are still been delivered in the third week of in progress with the Government of March. 1954, as the hon. Member Afghanistan. himself has mentioned in the last question. So, Sir, it is only a few Shri K. C. Sodhia: Are such months that we have been considering negotiations in progress with any this matter. other country? Shrl Sadhan Gupta: In view of the Shri Raj Bahadur: The case of fact that this question of provisional Afghanistan is a peculiar one be- optees to Pakistan has created dis- cause necessary facilities have to be satisfaction not only among the provided there and they stand in employees concerned, but among the need of technical personnel, equij>- minority communities also, do Govern- ment etc. Negotiations with them are ment propose to hasten the consider- under way. I do not know whether ation and can Government say by we stand in that relation with any which time the consideration will be other country at the moment. finished? 1447 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1448
Shri Ala^^esan: In consultation with companies who have been arranging the Ministry of Home Affairs we are purchases and we hope to reach the considering this question. Though I target of 6,00,000 tons before the Five may not be able to indicate the time- Year Plan period is over. limit, I can assure the hon. Member that we will do it as quickly as possi- Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: The figures ble. just quoted are difficult to follow. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Part (c) is May I therefore know the percentage of the total achieved so far during not answered yet. these three years out of the five- Mr. Speaker: He can put a separate year period. question later. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: The number Shri Alagesan: As I said, the com- of such employees, mentioned in part panies are in the process of making (c), cannot be under consideration, purchases. They began with 3,90,000 tons. Mr. Speaker: What is the reply to part (c)? Mr. Speaker: The difficulty of the hon. Minister, as I see it, is that the Shri Ala^esan: Twenty-three em- matter is partly in the hands of pri- ployees took the case to the High vate companies. Court. Shri Alagesan: More than 90 per I n d ia n S h i p p i n g cent, is in the hands of private com- panies. H236. Mulla Abdullabhal: Will the Minister of Transport be pleased to Mr. Speaker: He is, therefore, un- state: able to give the answer. (a) whether the target fixed for shipping tonnage at*the end of the Shri U. C. Patnaik: In view of the Plan period is likely to be reached; fact that there has not been proper and response to the loans advanced to private companies, is there any pro- (b) the extent of loans given so far posal to encourage an increase in the by Government to the various Ship- tonnage by adopting the practice pre- ping Companies for this purpose? vailing in other countries where loans The Deputy Minister of Railways are being granted for ship-building at and Transport (Shri Alaffesan): (a) very low or nominal rates of interest, Yes. repayable within a very long period, subject to the condition that the con- (b) A statement giving the required struction ' conforms to the design put information is laid on the Table of forward by naval experts? the Sabha, [Sec Appendix VIII, c'uinexure No. 3.] Shri Alagesan: I have already in- Shri Bhasrwat Jha Azad: May I formed the House that all this is being know the target up till now achieved done by Government now. We are in the three years’ plan? aiding companies to place orders on the Hindustan Shipyard and Govern- Shri Alagesan: To begin with, the ment pays, as a subsidy, the difference tonnage was 3,90^00. The tonnage between the U.K. parity price and the added up to date was 1.4$).000. Ton- actual cost of the Hindustan Ship- >iagc scrapped within this period yard. Ip addition to this, we have from the beginning of the Plan given long-term loan to shipping com- period is 60.000. The net addition up- panies to place order-; abroad or to to now is 89.000, but we have been have ships constructed in foreign, advancing loans to private shipping shipyards. , 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Ansicers t 449 Oral Answers 1450
W a te r Su p p l y ScHiiMi* o f HyDEKABAD for each month as available upto the 3rd of the next month provided they *■1237. Shri H. G. Vaishnav; Will were renewed, has been withdrawn the Minister of Health be pleased to on the Nor;h rastern Railway; state: (a) whether the Government of (b) whether it is a fact that this Hyderabad have forwarded recently facility is given on other Railways; any schemes for water supply to the (c) if so, the reasons for this dis- urban and rural areas in that State; crimination; and (b) if so, the estimated costs there- (d) whether any representation has of; been received from the public in this (c) whether any loan or grant-in-aid regard? has been offered by the Centre for such schemes; and The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minuter of Railways and Transport (d) if so, to what extent? (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) Yes, Sir. The Minister of Health (Rajkumari (b) Yes. Sir. Amrit Kaur): (a) Yes. (c) The time allowed for renewal of (b) Rs. 202*91 lakhs for urban season tickets has been reduced to one water supply schemes and Rs. 26*00 day after the date of expiry as season lakhs for rural schemes. tickets are now issued by the Station Master.s and not by the Headquarters (c) and (d>. A loan of Rs. 31*55 Office. lakhs for five urban water supply schemes has been offered to the Gov- (d) Yes. The North Eastern Rail- ernment of Hyderabad. The request way have been asked now to fall in for grant-in-aid for rural schemes is line with other Railways. under consideration. Shri H. G. Vaishnav: Has the R a il w a y W a t c h a n d W a r d S t a f i amount been advanced as loan or *1239. Shri K. K. Basu: Will the grant? Minister of Railways be pleased to Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: The amount refer to the reply to starred question for urban schemes is in the nature No. 1472 asked on the 31st March, of a loan, and any money given for 1954, and state: rural schemes is in the nature of a (a) whether the re-organisation of grant. Railway Watch and Ward has since Shri H. G. Vaishnav: May I know been finalised; whether the work under the schemes (b) if so, the cost incurred so far has been started by the State? on this new scheme; and Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: We have (c) the details of the organisation, offered the money for five of the training of personnel, pay structure schemes as loans and these are urban etc,, of the scheme? schemes. We are waiting to hear from them when they are going to The Parliamentary Secretary to the begin the work. Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Sliahnawai Khan): (a) and (c). S b a s o n T ic k e t s o n N o r t h E a s t e r n Details of the reorganisation are being R a il w a y worked out and will be finalised short- *1238. Shri T. K, Cliaudhttri: WUl ly. the Minister of RaUways be pleased (b) The cost is not anticipated to to state: be very much in excess of the cost of (a) whether it is a fact that the faci- the Watch and Ward and other lity of treating season tickets issued ancillary establishments. 1451 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1452^
Shri K. K. Basu: May I know Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: There is no whether under the new arrangements question of not aiding ayurvedic in- the Watch and Ward is going to be stitutions by the Central Government. replaced by armed police units, The money is there and it is for the especially in the Eastern and North- State Governments-4o include them in Eastern Railways? their Five Year Plan and then the money is given. Shri Shahnawaz Khan: One of the points in the re-organisation of the Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know how Watch and Ward is that certain por- much money has been given to the tions of them will also be armed. ' State Governments for this purpose in the current year and how much of S'hri K. K. Basu: May I know it has been spent? whether the personnel of the Watch Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: I cannot and Ward Department are transferred give that reply ott-hand, because it usually at very short notice, within depends on the State Governments* twenty-four hours, causing much in- schemes. convenien(!o to them? Shri D. C. Sharma; What is the pro- Shri Shahnawaz Khan: It all de- portion of the aid given to ayurvedic pends on the exigencies of the service institutions and the aid given to and sometimes they have to be trans- those institutions wi'ich impart in- ferred at a moment’s notice. structioii On the allopathic system of Shri K. K. Basu: May I know medicine? whether under the new terms of the Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: There service as proposed, they will not be again, it fs for the State Governments adversely afl'ecied? to say because it is the State Govern- ments that run both institutions, The Minister of Railways and ayurvedic and modern. Transport (Shri Lt B. Shastri): I wonder if the hon. Member is aware Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know of the proposed new terms at all. how much aid has been given to the Probably he Is not, and I' do not think State Govern I aents for allopathic in- that is going to happen. stitutions during last year, if not for this year? T r a i n i n g i n A y u r v e d a Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: I cannot ‘>1241. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the give you the figures of what the Minister of Health be pleased to Central Government has given, but state: the Central Government does not give aid to any institutions in the (a) the names of institutions for States unless it be for any specific imparting training in the Ayurvedic purposes that the Central Govern- system of medicine subsidized by ment has in view. Government; and CORRUPTK’N AMUN(,5.T RAII.W A’^ STAFF (b) the amount of grant given to them in the current year? *1242. Shri Dabhl: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to refer to the The Minister of Health (Rajkumarl reply to starred question No. 1124 Amrit Kaiur): (a) The Government of asked on the 17th March, 1954 and India do not maintain or subsidize any state: institution for imparting training in the A>airvedic System of Medicine. (a) whether the investigation re- garding the racket at Sulebhavi Sta- (b) Does not arise. tion on the Southern Railway has been completed; and Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know the reason for not subsidising or aiding (b) if so, the result of the investiga- any ayurvedic institution? tion? J453 Oral Ansioers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1454
The ParliameiLtary Secretary to the Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) and (b). An enquiry by a Departmental Com- mittee has been held in this case and their report is awaited. , (^) wr t ^ Z o o l o g ic a l G a r d e n i n D e l h i *1243. Shri S. N. Das; Will the Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to refer to the reply to starred iTT«n’; question No. 385 asked on the 30th ( ^ ) w r ^ ^ November, 1953 and state: (a) whether the scheme for the ‘establishment of a wild life park near (»r) ^ f® 3Thr Parana Quila in New Delhi has been iTi? fr, m 'Tix^rni w r finalised; (b) if so, what arrangements have t ; been made for the execution of this (*r) ^ .scheme; and (c) what is the present plan and w r f^r^n: | ? programme for its execution? The Parliamentary Secretary to the The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. Minister of Railways and Transport .K. Deshmukh); (a) Not yet. (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) An armed robbery was committed in the (h) Does not arise. R.M.S. Van of 312 Dn. Lucknow- (c) The scheme is under further Katihar Passenger train between ^•onsideration. Sarai and Bhagwanpur stations on the 5th June. 1954. Sliri S. N. Das: May I know whether in framing the scheme the Govern- (b) Yes. ment is following the old adage “Slow and steady wins the race”? (c) Yes; the matter is, however, ' still under police investigation. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The scheme was not there in the original plan. It (d) All possible steps are being was as a result of the deliberations of taken by the Pohce in the different the Wild Life Board that this was States to prevent such crimes. The proposed and it was undertaken. We Railways, on their part, have also in- have been lacing ^ome difficulties be- stituted such special measures as they cause the Honorary Secretary of the can for ensuring the safety of all Committee, Mr. Bowring Walsh has passengers. suddenly left, and the scheme which was to be phased in two years ha.s somewhat been delayed. Sthri S. N. Das: May 1 know if this scheme, when given eftect to, will be a Central Government responsibility or the State Government will also be ^ ^ q;^ ^5? ^ asked to participate in it? ?nrShri Shahnawaz Khan: The im- portance of the commodities. f I Pandit Munishwar Datt Upadhyay: ^ ^ ^srmr c; f?B May I know whether the annual de- ^ ^ i d ^ ^ ^ mand of wagons for the movement of ^ ^ ^ art*^ ?=pnqrr ^ tea is being met or there is a short- age? IHFvr ^ 1^ ? S!hri Shahnawaz Khan: It has been P referential S c h e d u l e o f So u t h e r n Shri Shahnawaz Khan: I have not R a il w a y got the yearly demand, but I have got *1245. Pandit Munishwar Datt with me the daily demand. It is Upadhyay: Will the Minister of seven wagons e:r broad-gauge Railways be pleased to state; stations and five wagons ex metre- (a) whether it is a fact that tea has gauge stations, that is twelve wagons been excluded from the preferential daily. schedule of Southern Railway; E v a l u a t io n o f A s s e t s o f A ir (b) if so, when and the reasons C o m p a n ie s therefor; and *1247. Shri Bahadur Singh: Will the (c) whether it is a fact that the Minister of Communications be pleas- wagons supply position not being ed to state the steps taken to have easy, the movement of tea is unduly an independent check of the evalua- restricted? tion of the assets of the Air Com- The Parliamentary Secretary to the panies for assessment of compensa- Minister of Railways and Transport tion payable to them? (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) No. " The Deputy Minister of Communis (b) Does not arise. cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): A Senior (c) No, movement of tea has not Chartered Accountant having long been restricted on account of difficult experience of air transport accounts wagon position, and there has been no has been placed on special duty for undue delay in arranging movement of the work relating to the assessment of tea except I’rom Pollachi on the Metre- compensation payable to the air gauge area to Broad-gauge stations transport companies whose under- via Palghat Tranship and from Metre- takings have been taken over by the gauge stations in the Bangalore Rail- two Corporations. He is assisted by way district to Broad-gauge stations audit teams comprising partly of via Bangalore City Tranship, The specialist technical stafT drawn from movement of traffic tria these routes the two Corporations, from the has to be suitably regulated in the Hindustan Aircraft Ltd., Bangalore, light of the operating conditions pre- and from the Civil Aviation Depart- vailing from time to time. ment and, partly, of accounts and audit personnel. Theie teams were Pandit ^Munishwar Datt Upadhyay: entrusted with the responsibility of What are the material considerations examining and checking the various in fixing these preference schedules assets of the companies and scrutinis- generally? ing their books and accounts. 1457 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Ansioers 1458
Shri Bahadur Singh: May I know necessarily made from the lowest by what time Government will start tenderer; giving compensation to ttiese com- panies? (b) if so, the reasons lor the same; and Shri Raj Bahadur: We hope that we may start that even in the next month, (c) whether preference is given to that meahs October, and I think de- Indian manufacturers while placing cidedly before the end of this year. orders? Shri Bahadur Singh: May I know whether Government have given any The Deputy Minister of Railways financial assistance to these com- and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) panies during the period the Govern- The lowest tender is accepted as a ment was busy checking the assets? rule, but, in certain cases it may not be acceptable. Shri Raj Bahadur: They are not en- titled to any tlnancial assistance from (b) A statement giving the infor- the Government as such. mation is laid on the Table of the House. [See Appendix VIII, annex- Stiri Bahadur Singh: In the report ure No. 4.] oil page 10, I find that Government •has given flnancial assistance to Bharat Airways and the Air India (c) Yes. International, Limited. I want to know whether this financial assistance Shri Viswanatha Reddy: May I given to thum will be adjusted in know whether certain cases have their compensation. been brought to the notice of the Government in which none of the Shri Raj Bahadur: Financial assist- reasons as given in the statement ance to Bharat Airways is out of the exists and still the order was placed question. We used to give them a with a British Arm in preference to subsidy. That was stopped by the end an Indian firm? of 1953. Whatever v/as due by way of arrears might have been given to Shri Alagesan: I am not aware of them. Apart from that, I do not think ' any individual cases at the moment. any hnancial assistance as such was due to Bharat Aii^w^ays. Shri Viswanatha Reddy: May I Shri K. K- Basu: May I know know whether the Government is whether only ttie books have been aware that a refugee firm in Bangalore checked or the physical stores and the manufacturing railway battery was quality and the existence of the parti- not given any order in spite of the cular materials were also checked? fact that theirs was the lowest Shri BaJ Bahadur: A physical check tender and in spite also of the fact of the materials, engines, .spares and that the quality of those batteries, other stores, etc. has been made and which are being used in the Southern all possible steps have been taken to Railway, is found to be good for the see that there are no leakages or that railways? there is no bad accounting. Shri Alagesan: The batteries that R\ il w a y S t o r e P u r c h a s e s are manufactured by indigenous firms ♦1248. Shri Viswanatha Reddy: Will are being tried on the railways. Al.so, the Minister of Railways be pleased orders have been placed on some of them and their batteries are being to state; tried. In the meanwhile, it might (a) whether it is a fact that pur- have happened that batteries from chases made for the Railways are not other sources also were purchased. t4 5 9 Oral Answers 22 SEPl'EMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1460
S u g a r F a c t o r ie s Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: That is possi- *1249. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will ble only in the case of a few factories. the Minister of Food and Agriculture As 1 mentioned, some factors are be- be pleased to state: yond our control. If there are good rains, it may be possible for the (a) the total number of sugar fac- factories to get the necessary supply tories in India which were lying idle of cane. In other cases, it is not. In in the year 1953-54; chronic cases of insufficient supply, this Committee will investigate the (b) the steps that Government pro- possibility of shifting any factory to pose to take to put them back into some other region. operation; and Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: (c) whether all of them will be May I know the total average production brought back into operation during the year 1954-55? capacity of these factories and to what extent these factories contri- Tiie Minister of AgricuHure (Dr. P. buted to the sugar scarcity in the 8. Deshmukh): (a) 22. country? (b) It is proposed to develop the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: On the whole, production of cane in zones of factor- these are smaller factories. I have ies which are lying closed for want of got the whole list of 22 factories. For adequate cane supply. In case fd instance, in West Bengal, one of the factories where such development is factories has a capacity of 750 tons; not possible efforts will be made to another 75. There are many vary- nhift such plants to more suitable ing upto 100 tons; some 80 and so sites. An Expert Committee has been on. The total capacity of many of appointed to carry out detailed in- them is rather insignificant. vestigations in respect of each unit, and further action will be taken in Shri L. N. Mishra; From the state- the light of the recohimendations of ment, it appears that the sugar mills that Committee. are starved for want of sugarcane. I want to ask whether Government are (c) Two of these factories are aware of the fact that the reported expected to operate during the 1954- attempts to reduce the price of sugar* 55 season. cane in the future will provide less incentive to growers and the growers Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know will opt for other cultivation? the time when the Government came to know fhat these factories were go- Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: This is a ing to remain idle because of inade- question of a very general nature and quate supply of sugarcane? it brings in the oft-repeated difference of opinion so far as the price of sugar- Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: In every case, cane is concerned. it is not possible to forecast that they may not have sufficient cane. For The Minister of Food and Agricul instance, in the two factories in ture (43hri Kldwai): I may inform Madhya Bharat, it was due to scanty the hon. Member that there is no rainfall. The tanks not being full, alternative crop which will bring the sugarcane could not grow to the income that sugarcane will bring at extent anticipated. prices even if they are reduced. D e r a i l m e n t o n t h e C e n t r a l R a il w a y Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: By w^at time do Government expect that ade- «1251. Shri Bhagwat Jha Axad: WUl quate supply of sugarcane could be the Minister of Railways be pleased made available so that these factories to state: may be enabled to run according to (a) whether any goods train derail- their capacity? ed between Devlali and LahvJt on the 398 L.S.D. J46i Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1462
Bhusawal-Igatpuri Section of Central negligence of duty which led to this Railway on the 1st September, 1954; accident. The accident was caused (b) if so, the extent of damage by the slip of the embankment due involved; and to lieavy rains. (c) the cause of derailment? Shri Bhagwat Jha Axad: What The Parliamentary Secretary to the action has been taken? Minister of Railways and Tramspwt (Shri Shahnawaa Khan). (a) At TMlr. Speaker: Let us not pursue this about 7-40 hours on 1st September, individual case. We will go to the 1954, while No. 98 Up Goods train next question. was running between Deolali and La'havit stations on the Bhusaval- T elegraphic C onnections for Police Igatpuri Section of the Central Rail- H eadquarters way, the engine and fourteen wagons *^1252. Shri Sanganiu: Will the behind it derailed. Minister of Communicatloiis be pleas (b) The approximate cost of ed to state: damage to railway property was (a) whether it is a fact that all the Rs. 20,225/-, headquarter Police Stations in Orissa (c) The derailment was caused due are to be connected with telegraph to slipping of the embankment as a lines; and result of heavy rains. (b) if so, the period within which Shri Bhagwat Jha Axad: Was there the proposal will be implemented? any report of loss of life of Railway employees? The Deputy Minister of Communi cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and Shri Shahnawaz Khan: No, 3ir. (b). Out of 295 Thana Stations 148 Shri Bhagwat Jha Asad: May I will have telegraph facilities by know, in view of the fact that any March. 1955. The remaining 147 will •upplementary question on corruption be provided in the next five year brings only laughter, whether there Plan. was any railway employee or station master involved in this? Shri Sanganna: What factors are taken into consideration in opening a Mr. Speaker: In this accident, he telegraph office in any place? means? Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Whether Shri Raj Bahadur: The factors are: there was any mistake of the railway if the loss over the project does not employees in causing this accident? amount to over Rs. 1000 per annum and if there is no other telegraph Shri Shahnawaz Klhan; The quest- office installed within a radius of five ion related to an accident. The hon. miles from that particular station, Member is talking about corruption, I then a telegraph office is opened on could not follow. such a station. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: He has not followed my question. I am not Shri Sanganna: May I know talking of corruption. I want to know whether the Government of Orissa whether the derailment was due to 'has recommended any places for the oversight or mistake of the railway opening of telegraph offices during employees or not. this year, and if so, in how many places they have been opened? Shri Shahnawaz Khan: Yes. An Assistant Station master and a petrol Shri Raj Bahadur: I am not aware man have been held responsible for of that. 1463 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answert 1464
J apanese M ethod of Rict C u ltivatio n the Government encouraged the manufacture of agricultural imple- *1253. Shri Jethalal Joshi: Will the ments of the Japanese type, and if so, Minister of Food and Affrlcnltiire be in w^ich institutions? pleased to refer to the reply to a supplementary question on starred Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: We had manu- question No. 514 asked on the 10th factured one in the I.C.A.R. There September, 1954 and state: are some manufactured by private (a) the total acreage of land under firms. They are being made available Japanese method of rice cultivation in some cases as free gifts and in at present; and others on trial. (b) the total quantity of fertilisers M inor Ir rig atio n S chemes in the required for this land? P unjab *1255. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the The Minister of Atriculiure (Dr. P. Minister of Food znfi Agriculture be S. Deshmukh): (a) Transplanting of pleased to state: paddy is still in progress in several parts of the country and it is yet too (a) whether Government have «arly in the season to say what acre- received any programme for Minor age would be actually put under the Irrigation Schemes from the Punjab Japanese method of rice cultivation. State for the year 1954-55; (b) This will depend upon the (b) if so. whether it has been total acreage actually brought under approved; and this method of cultivation. (c) the amount allocated for it? iShri Jethalal Joshi: Is it a fact that The Minister ot Agriculture (Dr. P. the Government placed orders for S. Deshmukh); (a) Yes. 50,000 tons of fertilisers somewhere (b) Yes. in April and may I know whether that consignment has arrived in time (c> Rs. 1.20,87,120. to be used in the farms? Shri D. C. Shama: May I know IH*. P. S. Deshmukh: The hon. Mem- what was the amount of grant that ber has not stated to what State he was asked for? refers. But, I must confess that in Dr. P. Deshmukh: I have not some casei we have been rather handi- got that figure. In most cases, unless capped for want of supplies. We are the scheme is essentially unsound, we doing OUT best to supply where the generally approve the proposals of need is the greatest. the State Government. Shri Madhao Reddi: May I know . Shri D. C. Siharma: May I know -whether it is a fact that the acreage what items are included in this tinder rice under the Japanese method .scheme known by the name of minor tias decreased considerably this year irrigation schemes? due to discontinuing the practice of supply of fertilisers on taccavi basis Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: By minor by the State Governments? irrigation, we mean subject to certain other conditions, schemes which do Dr. P. S. Deshmukh:. Yes, Sir. not cost more than Rs. 10 lakhs. Probably, there is some truth in the statement that adequate taccavi Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know grants might not have been available. what kinds of schemes are these? 1 have not got data and figures with Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I am afraid, it regard to it. would take Jong to describe this. We Diwmn lUffiiavendra Rao: With a have got rules and specific categories -view to increase rice cultivation of the works which are included in ainder the Japanese method. have these. 1465 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1466
E x p o r t o f A n im a l s The Minister of Agriculture (Dr» *1257. Shri Vlswanatha Reddy: Will P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. the Minister of Food and Agriculture (b) to (d). A statement is laid on be pleased to state: the Table of the House. [See Ap- (>a) whether it is a fact that export pendix VIII, annexure No. 5.] of Indian livestock is declining be- Shri S. N. Das: In view of the cause importers lear that livestock fact that a large number of trainees diseases are widely prevalent in India; will have to be trained in this res- (b) if so, the steps taken by Gov- pect, may I know whether the ques- ernment to remove this apprehension; tion of starting an institution of the nature of an International Peopled (c) whether any organisation has College is under the consideration of been set up to see that diseased the Government? animals are not allowed to be ex- Dr. P. S. Deshmakh: No, Sir. ported; and • Shri S. N. Das: May I know w he- (d) if so, the composition of the organisation? ther the selection that has been made has been made direct by the Central The Minister of Arricnltnre (Dr, Government or on the recommenda- P. S. Deshmokh): (a) No. tions of the State Governments? (b) to (d). Do not arise. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: We consult the State Governments. But, the selection is certainly limited because Shri N. B. Chowdhary: May I we limit the selection to personnel know the names of the countries to who are employed in the Extension which Indian livestock is being ex- Training Centres. ported?
Dr. P. S. Deshmakh: To Ceylon Shri Kasliwal: May I request that mostly. We have sent a few to the the last question may be answered? U.S.S.R. as well as Burma, Afghanistan, It relates to drought conditions in Thailand, and U.S.A. also. The num- various States. It is a very impor- ber is almost insignificant. tant question. Only one question. Mr. Speaker: The question H o u r I nternational P e o p l e ’s C o l l e g e , is over, unfortunately. E l s in o r Shri K. K. Basu: It may be ex- •1259. Shri S. N. Das: Will the tended by a few minutes. Minister of Food and Agricnltiire be pleased to state: Short Notice Question and Answer (a) whether the final selection of Milk Supplied by I.C.A.R. candidates to be sent to the Inter- national People’s College, Elsinor S.N.Q. No. 14. Shri Gidwani: (Denmark) for a course in agricul- Will the Minister of Food and Agri- ture and in the management of folk culture be pleased to state : schools, has been made by the Central (a) whether the attention of Gov- Government: ernment has been drawn to the repljr given to a question in the Delhi (b) if so, the names of the persons Legislature by he Health Minister on selected; the 15th September. 1954 to the effect that the milk supplied by the Indian (c) the names of the States to Council of Agricultural Research to which they belong; and the hospitals, jail, etc. in Delhi has been foiuid to be adulterated and (d) the details of this scheme? that the rates charged for milk^ and 1467 Oral Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1468
butter are comparatively higher than in sealed cans to hospitals and other the market rates; institutions, why is it that even then some samples as admitted by the (b) whether any enquiry has been Minister, were found to be adultera- made into the matter; and ted in 1952 and 1953? (c) if so, what is the result of the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: As 1 have enquiry? already mentioned, we have not been able to get sealed bottles, smd The Minister of Airriculture (Dr. therefore, this human element of P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. , tampering with them now and again cannot be entirely eliminated in spite of the best efforts that we make. (b) and (c). A complete statement is laid on the Table of the House. Shri Gidwani: When samples of ISee Appendix VIII, annexure No. sealed cans were found below the 6.] It will be seen therefrom that legal standards, may I know how ever since the inception of the many such cases were detected, what I. C. A. R. Milk Supply Scheme there was the number of offenders prose- has not been a single case of official cuted and what was the punishment complaint about the quality of milk awarded to them? supplied to Hospitals. Measures are in force to ensure quality and to The Minister of Food and Agricul supply wholesome pasteurised milk ture (Shri Kidwai): Dismissed. to the public of fat content far Dr. P. Deshmukh: above the prescribed legal standard. S. They were dismissed. I have mentioned there However, in any system of large scale milk distribution, where milk were only five cases and in each one of the cases the fat content was above is not packed in sealed bottles, but the legal standard. distributed from cans through depots each in charge of a salesman, stray Shri K. K. Basu: May I know cases of infringement of instructions what is difficulty in introducing the cannot be entirely eliminated. A sealed bottle system of distribution? few such cases (not more than 5 during a period of over, 3 years) Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: It will in- brought to our notice by municipal crease the cost. Then there will be authorities date back to 1952 and again a complaint about increase in 1953 and in each case the salesman the cost. was fined or removed from service. Continued vigilance will be maintain- Dr. Rama Rao: What is the legal Is ed to reduce such cases to the mini- prescription of the fat content? mum. it a fact that it is much below the natural fat content of milk?
As the scheme is run on a no- Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The legal proftt basiis the prices charged are standards to which I referred, Sir, reasonable and in fact the scheme has are 3.5 in the case of cow’s milk helped to stabilise, at reasonable Icvel.s and 4.5 in the case of mixed milk— highly fluctuating milk prices in both cow’s and buffalo’s. Delhi. Gallup polls reveal that the Shri Dabhi: May I know th^ public is satisfied with the scheme reasons why instead of supplying the bath with regard to quality and ser- unmixed buffalo milk, the mixed vice. milk of cow and buffalo is being supplied, as in the latter case there Shrl Gidwani: May I know when is greater chance of adulteration? the milk is obtained from the Gov- ernment dairy farms and other Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: We supply agencies and supervised and tested both kinds of milk, and that is the by the government officers and sent suitable arrangement we can make. 1469 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1470
It is impossible to classify and sepa- report of the Committee, Govern- rate all the milk we get. ment will decide what action should Shri Dabhi rose— be taken in this connection. Mr. Speaker: I am now going to the next business. R a il w a y E f f i c i e n c y B u r e a u rsh ri s. N. Das: •I2O8. \ Dr. Satyawadi: WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Will the Minister of Railways be B.C.G. IN THE P u n j a b pleased to state what important ted»- niques have so far been evolved by >^1205. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the the Railways Efficiency Bureau which Minister ot Health be pleased to hajve led to greater efficiency ia state the number of persons who were various fields of railway operation? inoculated with B.C.G. in Punjab State during 1953? The Deputy Minister of RaUways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): The* The Minister of Health (RaJ- Efficiency Bureau has developed kumari Amrlt Kaur): 2,94,351 per- techniques for efficiency measure sons. ment in the field of operation in res- P o l i s h i n g o f R ic e pect of— •1207. Shri Dabhi; Will the Min- (i) transit time of goods throught ister of Food and Agriculture be pleas- break-of-gauge tranship- ed to state: ment points; (a) whether it is a fact that when (ii) detention to wagons of eacb rice is polished by milling it loses gauge at transhipment junc- much of its nutritive value and by its tion, and use several serious diseases such as (iii) wagon utilisation. Beri-Beri are produced; and The Bureau has also devised tecb^- (b) if so, whether Government pro- niques for the measurement of— pose to prohibit rice*polishing by milling process? (iv) workload in respect of eacb of the major working de- The Minister of Food and Agricul partments on the railway. ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) Yes, Sir, (v) workload on the administra- when rice is polished either through tive machinery of the rail- mechanical process or hand-pound- way. ing its nutritive value is adversely affected, the extent of the loss of W .H .O . Se m in a r f o r W a t e r W o r k s nutritive value depending on the O p e r a t o r s degree of polish. The continued use •1211. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will of highly polished rice in a diet Health which is also poor in B vitamins does the Minister of be pleased result in vitamin deficiency diseases to state: such as beri-beri. (a) whether recently a World (b) The Government of India are Health Organisation Seminar was held appointing a Committee who would in New Delhi for water works ope- examine the working of the different rators; and types of rice mills in the country (b) what are the recommendations from all aspects such as technical, of this Seminar that require imme- nutritional consumer preference etc, diate attention and implementation? «nd to make recommendations as to th^ future policy that should be adopt- The Minister of Health (RaJkumariE ed by (lovernment On receipt of the Amrit Kaur): (a) Yes. I47I Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1472
(b) No recommendations were ‘F u j i * T r a c t o k s made by the Seminar. It was ar- ranged to serve as a “Refresher *^1214. Shri Bibhuti Mishra: Will the Course’* for waterworks operators. Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: C o c h i n P o r t •1212. Shri A. M. Thomas: Will the (a) whether it is a fact that a de- Minb^ter of Transport be pleased to monstration of ‘Fuji’ tractors was state: given at the Indian Agricultural Re* search Institute; (a) the total amount set apart for the development of the Cochin Port (b) what is the opinion of Govern- under the Five Year Plan; ment experts regarding the workabi- (b)*how much amount has been lity of the tractor on Indian soils in spent so far; and different States; (c) what works have actually been (c) whether Government contem- carried out and what remains to be plate to start the manufacture of done? the said tractors in India in collabo- ration with the Japanese Firm: and The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Railways and Trans (d) if so, within what period? port (Shri Shahnawai Khan): (a) The Minister of Food and Agricul Rs, 201 lakhs. ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) Yes. (b) Rs. 18.45 lakhs upto end of (b) The demonstration was given July, 1954. for a very short period. It was, therefore, not possible for the Gov- (c) A statement showing the pro- ernment experts to collect the data ' gress of work is laid on the Table of necessary for an opinion about the the House. (See Appendix VIII, suitability of tractors. annexure No. 7] ' (c) No. P h il a t e l ic Se c t io n o f t h e P a r is F a ir (d) Does not arise. ,
*1213. Th. Lakshman Singh Charak: M i l k M a r k e t in g B o a r d s Commimicatloas Will the Minister of Shrimati Tarkeshwarl ^ be pleased to state: *1216. Will the Minister of Food and Agri (a) the names of the delegates from culture be pleased to state: India who attended the Philatelic (a) whether Government have ad- Section of the Paris Fair held in May, vocated the setting up of Milk Mar- 1954; and keting Boards throughout the coun- try; and (b) how much expenditure did Government incur on these delegates? (b) if so. what progress has been made in the various States in this The Deputy Minister of Communi direction? cations (Shri Raj Bahadnr): (a) No - separate delegation was sent to the The Minister of Food and Agricul International Philatelic Fair held at ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) The Plan- Paris in May, 1954. Shri H. L. ning Commission suggested setting Jerath, Director-General, Posts and up of such Boards. Telegraphs and Shri T. N. Mehta, Stamp Officer, Posts and Telegraphs (b) State Governments are pri- who were already on deputation to the marily concerned with this) sugges- continental countries were sent to tion. A summary of their views re- Paris to attend the Fair. ceived so far is placed on the Tablp of the Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, (b) Rs. 2,450/, approximately. annexure No. 8.] 1473 Written Ansxvers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1 4 7 4
♦^^LCL’ITA SVBIRBAN R a IL StKVlCl: ( ^ ) ^ ^ ♦1218. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to state: (>t) 5 arPf- (a) when the electric trains and ^ r r f ^ 3TTT 5I?ft ^ ^ other equipment ordered abroad for % f?5q »rarf^"f % #’rn; use in the Calcutta Suburban lines are expected to be received: TT ^ % iTSrSTf 3fR ^4=s«rfT3flf (b) by what time the other preli- ^>n?=ftfT^)T5rrT|Tf ? minary works in connection with the The ParliamenUry Secretary to said line are expected to commence; the Minister of Railways and Trans and port (Shri Shalinawaz Khan): (a) (c) when the construction of the About 33 per cent. cx-B.N.R. Suburban line upto Kharag- pur is expected to be taken up? (b) A sum of about Rs. 22 lakhs had been spent on this work upto The Deputy Minister of Railways the end of July, 1954. and Transport (Shri Alag;e6an): (a) No orders have been placed as yet. (c) No, Sir. Only global quotations have, so far. been invited and offers are to be C ir c l e S e r v ic e T elegraphists received during November and De- *1227. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will cember, 1954. No accurate informa- the Minister of Communications be tion about receipt of equipment can, pleased to state: therefore, be given at present. Some minor preliminary works have al- (a) whether it is a fact that a repre- ready been started. sentation of the Circle Service Tele- • graphists regarding denial to them of (c) No date has been settled for the Adjudications Award for fixation this. of pay is under consideration of Gov- ernment for nearly three years; and R e l ie f t o A griculturists *1221. Shri Biren Dutt: Will the (b) if so, when a decision is ex- Minister of Food and Africulture be pected? pleased to state: The DeiNity Minister of Communi (a) whether any relief by way of cations (Shri Raj Rahadur): (a) Yes, reduction of rent or cancellation of because the decision in the matter debts has been given to the agricul- can be taken only in consultations turists of Tripura during 1950-53; with the Ministries of Finance and and Home Affairs, in so far as it requires (b) if 80, the nature of the relief a very close examination of the terms given ? and conditions of service of the va- rious cadres and the duties and res- The Minister of Food and Agri ponsibilities assigned to them from culture (Shri Kidwai): (a) and (b). time to time. Relief has been given by grant of agricultural loans. (b) Before the end of the current year. WFqr-lftTVT Br id g e o v e r G o d a v a r i *1231. Shri Raghuramaiah: Will the JT? ^ f^T : Minister of Transport be pleased to state: (m) ^ ^ «Wir(b) if so, the estimated cost thereof; Officers, recruited to Railway ser- and vices, are required to pass a depart- (c) by what time the construction mental language examination in of the bridge is expected to be com- Hindi in the lower standard before menced and completed? they are confirmed. The Deputy Minister of Railways (d) Any decision in this context and Transport (Shri Alagresan): (a) will have to be taken for Central Yes; it is proposed to construct Government employees as a whole. bridges across the two branches of the river Godavari called Gautami Pa l a m a IK -P o rt and Vasista. n246^ Sardar Hukam Singh: Will (b) Gautami bridge—Rs. 124.79 the Minister of Communications be lakhs. Vasista bridge—About Rs. 65 pleased to state: lakhs. ■ (a) whether any decision has been (c) The Gautami bridge is ex- taken to transfer the control of Palam pected to be commenced early in Air-Port to the Communications 1955 and the Vasista bridge in the Ministry; and latter part of 1955. It will take about five years for the construction (b) if so, whether any separate of the Gautami bridge and about air-port is proposed to be built for the three years for the construction of Air Force? the Vasista bridge. The Deputy Minister of Communl- cations (Shri Raj Baliadur): (a) No. Sir. : m i (b) Does not arise. ^ in r I S e a m e n ’s H o s t e i a t Be h a l a m m - (fr) yrr *1250. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will the Minister of Transport be pleased to state: (a) whether the attention of Gov- (^?f) irftr ft, ^ ernment has been drawn to com- plaints regarding the working of “Navik Griha” (Seamen’s Hostel) at (^) wr fiTT viNrlxvt ^ Behala near Calcutta; (b) the accommodation provided there and the proportion of such ac- commodation actually occupied by t ; seamen on an average each month; and (^ ) JTfe rr> w r (c) whether Government contem- I ? plate granting them “food loans”? The Deputy Minister of RaUways The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) and Transport (Sliri Aiagesan): (a) and (b). It is proposed to issue gra- Only one complaint of a minor na- dually Hindi editions of official pub- ture came to Government's notice lications, reports etc. of the Ministry which was found to be baseless on of Railways. enquiry. (c) Hindi is not included at pre- (b) The Nabik Griha can accom- sent as a subject for any recruit- modate a maximum of 256 seamen ment or promotion examination con- at a time. The accommodation ac- ducted by Railways. But Gazetted tually occupied by seamen on an 1477 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers , 1478 average each month since the open- (b) 15 ships of 51,400 gross re- ing of the hostel on the 10th February gistered tons during the period from was as under:— September, 1953 to August, 1954.
30th to 28th February, 1954 E m p l o y m e n t i n R a il w a y s about 17 per cent. *1258. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will March. 1954 21 per cent. th^' Minister of Railways be pleased to state: April, 1954 28 per cent. (a) whether the attention of Gov- May, 1954 23 per cent. ernment has been drawn to an edi- June, 1954 28 per cent. torial comment in “Amrita Bazar Patrika” (Calcutta edition) dated the July, 1954 , 25 per cent. 17th August, 1954, regarding absorp- tion in Railway service of the em- 29 per cent. August, 1954 ployees of a long established catering (c) No such proposal is under con* concern; and sideration of Government. (b) if so. what action is proposed to be taken in the matter?
K r is h n a Br id g e The Parliamentary Secretary to *1254. Shrl Rarhununaiah: Will the the Minister of Railways and Tran»> Minister of Transport be pleased to port (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) itate: Yes, Sir.
(a) whether the Central share of (b) Of these some have been ab- the construction cost of the regulator^ sorbed by Railways in their depart- cum-road bridge over the River mental catering establishments and Krishna near Vijayawada has been some more by other contractors. fixed; and D r o u g h t C o n d i t i o n s i n St a t u s (b) if so, the amount so fixed? f Dr. Ram Suhhag Singh: The Deputy Minister of Railways j Shri Kasliwal: • 1260. and Transport (Shrl Alagesan); (a) i Shri P. L. Bampal: Yes. I^Shri Sadhan Gnpta:
(b) Rs. 39*08 lakhs. Will the Minister of Food and Agri colt ore be pleased to state: I n d ia n Sh i p p i n g (a) whether it is a fact that the nt5 6 . Sardar Hnkam Stngh: Will failure of Monsoon has created the M in is te r of Transport be pleased drought and near drought conditions in certain parts of the country; to state: {/%) the percentage of the total (b) if so, the names of the areas Qua;\tity of goods purchased by the where drought conditions prevail; and Indian Stores Department carried by the Lidian Mercantile Shipping during (c) the extent to which these 1953-54; and drought conditions have caused damage to the crops and fodder? (b) ^he number of ships added to the Inaian Mercantile Shipping during The Minister of Food and Agricul the la*'t twelve months? ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) Yes. The deputy Minister of Railways (b) Drought conditions prevail in axid Tt^nsport (Shri Alagesan); (a) parts of Orissa, South Bihar, Ajmer, About ^0 per ccnt., roughly. Punjab and West Rajasthan. 14 7 9 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1480-
(c) It has not so far been possible The Minister of Food and Agricul to assess the extent of damage caus- ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) The pre- ed to the crops. sent Punjab State came into exis- tence from 15th August, 1947. The T e l e g r a p h O f f ic e s i n R a j a s ih a n D is t r ic t H eadquarters Government of Punjab started ex- porting rice only from 1949. A state 594. Shri Kami Singhji: Will the ment is placed on the Table of the Minister of Communications be House showing quantities of rice sup- pleased to state the number of District plied by Punjab to each State dur- Headquarters in Rajasthan where ing the years 1949 to 1953. [.See there are no telegraph offices? Appendix VIII, annexure No. 9.] The Deputy Minister of Communi cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): All the No quantity was supplied to Cen- 25 Districts Headquarters have got tral Reserve during these years. Telegraph facilities. (b) Two statements are placed oz^ the Table of the House. [See Ap- B u r d w a n R.M.S. O f f ic e pendix VIII, annexure No, 10.] 595. Shri Ramananda Das: Will the Minister of Communications be ELBCTRinCATION OF PLATFORMS ON TUB pleased to state: N o r t h e r n R a il w a y 597. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the (a) whether it is a fact that the Minister of Railways be pleased ta accommodation in the building in state the number of Railway Stations which the Burdwan R.M.S. office is and their names on the Northera located is so crammed that it is not Railway where electric lighting and possible to place required number of Installations of fans on platforms have* sorting cases there; and been proposed to be undertaken (b) if so, what action Government under the amenities programme propose to take in the^ matter? chalked out recently? The Deputy Minister of Communi The Deputy Minister of Railways cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and T ran ^ rt (Shri Alagesan): 130^ There is scarcity of space in the Railway stations on the Northern building in which the Burdwan Railway as per enclosed list [Sec Ap- R. M. S. office is located. pendix VIII. annexure No. 11], are proposed for Electrification in the (b) The Postmaster-General, Bihar, Programme for the Passenger Ame- is fully alive to the need for more nities during the years 1954-55 to space for this office and has been 1958-59, subject to the availability of taking all possible steps to remove funds and Electric Power from the the shortage. Punjab Grid System or other locaT sources.
P u n j a b R ic e N o n -P a y m e n t o f S u o a r c a k e P r ic f s 596. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Food and Agrricuiture be 598. Shri Jhulan fi»nha: WiU the ^ pleased to state: Minister of Fo<^ and Agriculture be pleased to state: (a) the total quantity of rice sup- plied by the Government of Punjab (a) whether it is a fact that large both to the Centre and different States sums of unclaimed sugarcane price from 1946 to 1953, separately, year- have been lying with the sugar fac- wise: and tories for years in Bihar and other States; (b) what are the rates per maund of different kinds of rice suiH?lied by (b) if so, the amounts lying State* the Punjab Government? wise; 1481 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1482
(c) why such arrears are outstand- P i l o t D e v e l o p m e n t P r o j e c t s ing settlement; and 600. Shri Radha Raman: Will the Minister of Food and Agriculture be (d) whether Government propose to pleased to state; spend this amount for cane develop- ment? (a) the progress made i:i the Pilot Development Projects, Extension Wings The Minister of Food and Affricul< and the Extension Training Centres ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) to (c). which are being financed by the Ford 4 A statement showing the arrears of Foundation; cane prices outstanding against the (b) the amount spent so far on sugar factories for the years 1950-51, these Schemes; 1951-52, 1952-53 and 1953-54, is laid on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Ap- (c) the number of foreign experts pendix VIII, annexure No. 1 2 ]. Some who are working under these •of these dues are outstanding due to Schemes; and the fact that the cane growers have (d) for how long they will continue not demanded payment either because to do so7 they are dead or because they are unable to produce the receipts for sup- The Minister of Food and Agricul ply of cane. ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) A statement ^ is laid on the Table of the House. The State Govermnents report that [See Appendix VIII, annexure No. in other cases payment of arrears is 14]. X'ontinuing. (b) Approximately Rs. 77,05,700/- were spent upto 31st March, 1954. (d) No, Sir, because the arrears re- present genuine claims of growers and (c) Five. until payment is actually made, the liability of the factory remains undis- (d) The assignments of these foreign /:harged. experts vary from twelve to eighteen months.
o n v e n t i o n I.M.C.O. C U nauthorised T ransmitters
599. Shri Krlahnacharya JotU: WiU 601. Shri Bahadur Singh: Will the the Minister of Transport be pleased Minister of Communications be to state: pleased to state: ^ (a) whether the three Resolutions (a) whether any illegal transmit- adopted at the 15th Session of the ters engaged in unauthorised broad- economic and Social Council, on casting were detected and seized by Pollution of Sea water, Ratification of the checks exercised by the monitor- l.M.C.O. Convention and Roads Signs ing station since the 1st January 1954 and Signals were again discussed at to 31st August, 1954; and its Seventeenth Session at New York in March, 1954; and (b) if so, their number? (b) if so, what are the decisions arrived at? The l>eputy Minister of CommunI- ^ cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) Yes. The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (b) Twenty-one upto 15th August, Yes. 1954. This number does not include information in respect of some districts (b) A statement containing the re- of Madras and Uttar Pradesh States quired information is laid on the Table and it also does not include informa- the Sabha. [See Appendix VIIT, an- tion in respect of Andhra, Bihar, Bilas- nexure No. IS]. pur, Jammu and Kashmir, Madhya 1483 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers I4S4-
Pradesh, Manipur. Orissa. Punjab and A gricultural R e s e a r c h S c h e m e s Tripura, which is still awaited from the respective States and it will be 604. Shri V. Missir: Will the Minister furnished after it is received from of Food and Agriculture be pleased to ’ them. slate: D.T.S. P a s s e s t o P r e s s R epresentatives (a) the number of research schemes* ' 602. Shri Krishna Chandra: Will sponsored by the Indian Council of the Minister of Transport be pleased Agricultural Research in collaboration- to state: with the State Governments during the year 1954-55; and (a) whether the scheme of all- route free passes for the representa- (b) the subjects on which the re- tives of the Press has been introduced search is to be done? by the Delhi Road Transport Autho- rity; and The Minister of Food and Agricul ture (Shri Kidwai); (a) 176 (b) if so, the number of passes so far issued and to whom they have (b) A statement is laid on the Table [See ^ been issued? of the House. Appendix Vlllr annexure No. 16].
The Deputy Minister of Railways R o a d s and Transport (shri Alaresan); (a) Yes. 685. Shri M S. Gurupadaswamy: Will the Minister of Transport (b) Twenty.flve. A statement show- pleased to state: ing the names of persons in whose favour these passes have been issued (a) the total mileage of roads that and the Newspapers or News-Agencies have been constructed so far under whom they represent is placed on the the first Five Year Plan; Table of the Sabha. [See Appendix (b) the total amount of money spent VIII, annexure No. 15]. on the construction of these roads;
iftw iftifi iftinfT (c) whether it is a fact that the pro- gress made so far in the road construo- tion is far behind the schedule; and m ifTHf : wr JTrTf# ^ r r r (d) if so, the reasons for the slow progress? (w>) fiRTRT, TTV The Deputy Minister of Railways wtm % 3RPfcT ^ ^ and Transport (Shri Alageoan): (a) The construction of States roads for w r ? ; which provision has been made in' the States Sector of the first (^) qrferf^lr ^ nftr Five-Year Plan is primarily the con- cern of the State Governments. Under the programmes of road development provided for in the Central Sector of (n ) ^ n the Plan, so far 619 miles of new r o a d s ^ 5T%5T?r ^ ? have been constructed. (b) The total amount spent from The Deputy Minister of Commnni- 1951-52 to 1953-54 on the construction caUoos (Shti Raj Bahadur): (a) of new roads under the Central Sector 1,05,563. of the Plan is Rs. 5,14 crores. (b) Rs. 24,31.89.988 (c) and (d). The progress is generally (c) 5.7 per cent satisfactory. 1485 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written ApMoera , i 486
% WTiBT^f ^ WBlf The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Sbri Alagesan): (a) 5W» 8r*IWT; WffWWWI and (b). No, Sir.
S p e c i a l T r a in s (v ) ^vr % ^ 9. Shri U. M. Triyedl: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to ^ »T«f n ^ jr?h 3rt- state:
•r^W'W’TV f ; 3ftr (a) the number of special trains that ( ^ ) ?r, rft w in irr^ ^ were run to Ajmer during the last All India Congress Commiltee meeting w >5Hn:^ % w r ^ in July 1954; . ? (b) the names of the places from The Minuter of Health (Bajkaauurl where they were run; and Amrit Kaur): (a) The sanitary ar- rangements are not entirely satisfac- (c) whether it is a fact that the aver- tory. age number of passengers which travel- ^ led by these special trains was less (b) The Delhi State Government are than ten? taking necessary steps in consultation With the Delhi Municipal Committee to The Deputy Minister of Railways bring about the desired improvements. and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Seven. R o a d T r a n s p o r t 607. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the (b) Delhi, Neemuch, Marwar Junc- Minister of Tmnsport be pleased to tion, Bandikui, Bhilwara and Phulera. state the policy of the Government of (c) No. India towards the future expansion of road transport (motor) service in the D emonstration b y Se a m e n i n Bo m b a y country? 610. Skri Gidwani: WiU the Minis- The Deputy Minister of Railways ter of Transport be pleased to state: and Transport (Shri Alagesan): Under (a) whether it is a fact that there the Constitution, the subject of road was a demonstration of seamen in transport services falls within the front of Seanlen’s Employment Office executive jurisdiction of the State at Ballard Estate, Bombay on the Governments, who are primarily res- I8th August, 1954; and ponsible for policy decisions on the (b) If so, the reasons therefor? subjec't. The Government of India are. however, interested in the coordi- The Deputy Minister of Railways nated development of road and rail and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) transport and their views on the man- No. ner in which this coordination should (b) Does not arise. be effected are embodied in the Road Transport Corporations Act of 1950. W a g o n s
D e l iv e r y o f R a il w a y P a r c e l s 611. Shri Ramananda Das: Will the Railways 608. Shri Viswanatha Reddy: Will Minister of be pleased to Ihe Minister of Railways be pleased to state: ' state: (a) the total number of wagons (a) whether there is any proposal lying unused on the different Railways; to introduce in Delhi the scheme of collection and street delivery of Rail- (b) the reasons thereof; ana way parcels, as in Madras; and (c) whether some of these wagons (b) whether representations have are used after minor repair and some been made in this regard? are sold or used as iron or scrap iron? 1487 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers I4S8 The Oepaty Minister of Railways ernment in regard to the opening of and Transport (Shri Alasesan): (a) sugar factories in South India; and (b). A statement showing the position on each Railway is enclosed. (b) the names of the places where [See Appendix VIII, annexure No. sugar factories are permitted to be 17]. opened at present; (c) Yes, wagons which can be so (c) the names of the persons who i used, are put back into service after have been given permission to open repairs. Wagons which are unecono- their factories; and mical to repair are usually cut up or sold after reclaiming the serviceable (d) whether the Government of parts. India have promised or paid any money to help these factories? S h i f t i n g o f S u g a r M i l i s The Minister of Food and Agricul 612. Shri Wodeyar: WUl the Minister ture (Sliri Kidwai): (a) 25. of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: (b) and (c). Licences have been granted to the following concerns for ^ (a) the number of applications that establishment of new sugar factories in are pending consideration before Gov- South India:
Serial Name of concern Location No.
1. Shri Muliibhai P. Madhwani, Singara Estate^ Coonoor, Shimoga (Mysore). Mysore. 2. M/s. Thiruvannamalai Sugar Mills Ltd., Thinivan<- Thiruvannamalai. namalai, District North Arcot. (Madras). (Madras). 3. M/s. Challapalle Sugar Ltd., Challapallc, Distt. Challapalle (Madras). Kistna. 4. M/s. Kulitulai Sugar Factory, Ltd., Kulittalai Kulittalai (Madras). (Madras). 5. M/s. V. S. Thyagaraja Mudaliar, 53, Peters Road, Vedapathimangalam Madras. (Madras). 6. Shri V. D. Chitale» 31, Western India House, Bombay. Malsiras (Bombay). 7. M/s. Parry 8c Co. Ltd., Madras .... Kolianur (Madras).
(d) No. Sir. Hie Deputy Minister of RaUwajs and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) tpTo : Wr and (b). Not yet, Sir.
(c) Passenger amenity works have (^ ) ^ necessarily to be provided on a pro- gramme basis. Annual programmes for such works are drawn up by the Passenger Amenity Committee, keep- ing in view the availability of funds, relative importance, urgency and need ( ^ ) irftr w r % m for works at different stations. Impro- vements to the Waiting hall, and exten- sion of the existing covering of plat- form at Chupra station are expected (^ ) rft w r to be included in a new future pro- gramme. 1489 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1490
T e a W a r e -H o u s e s E a s t e r n R a il w a y A c c o u n t s D e p a r t m e n t
614. Shri K. P. Tripathi: Will the 616. Shri H. N. MulLerJee: Will the Minister of Transport be pleased to Minister of Railways be pleased to state: state whether it is a fact that although scales of pay of Upper Division Clerks (a) whether Balmer Laurie and under the Comptroller and Auditor- Company have been given monopoly General and of Class I clerks of Railway ^ rights over tea ware-houses in Calcutta Accounts Department (Eastern Rail- ^ by the Port Commissioners; way) are identical, those among the (b) whether private parties applied latter who have passed Appendix II to rent ware-houses but were refused, Examination are not given the higher although empty ware-houses were starting pay of Rs. 100 as admissible there, earmarked for Balmer Laurie to the former? and Company; and The Deputy Minister of Railways (c) whether any action is contemplat- and Transport (Shri Aiagesan): Yes. ed by Government in the matter? The rea.son for the difference is that Tlu) I>eputy Minister of RaUways both the nature of work and the quali- and Transport (Shri AlageaaB): (a) fications prescribed for recruitment of ^ No. the two sets of staff differ widely. (b) No. All parties who applied for g o l e -B o w r i n g p a t R a il w a y L in k space for storage of tea in the Com- missioners’ warehouses prior to the 617. Shri Viswanatha Reddy: Will 25th July, 1954. were allotted space the Minister of Railways be pleased to according to their requirements. Ap- sUte: plications received after the 25th July. w 1954, for renting warehousing space of (a) whether it is a fact that an more than 3,000 s q . ft. had to be turn- ed down by the Port Commissioners, Ongole-Cuddapah-Bowringpat rail link as no space was available. is being investigated for inclusion in the second Five Year Plan; and (c) Does not arise. (b) if so. whether the possibility D e l h i -G a u h a t i A ir S e r v ic e and the desirability of sucji a link has 615. Shri Gohain: Will the Minister finally been decided? ^ of Commanications be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister of Railway* (a) when the direct Air Service bet- and Transport (Shri Aiagesan): (a) ween Gauhati and New Delhi will be No decision has yet been reached as to resumed; and the particular project.*? which should (b) whether Government are aware be taken up for construction during that the Delhi-bound Assam passengers the Second Five Year Plan. are facing inconvenience on account of (b) Does not arise. the discontinuance of this service?
The Deputy Minister of Communi G u n t a k a l D is t r ic t S o u t h e r n R a il w a y ^ cations (Shri Ral Bahadur): (a) There is no proposal at present to 618. Shri Viswanatha Reddy: Will operate a direct service between the Minister of Railways be pleased to Gauhati and New Delhi. state: (b) The passengers from Assam can (a) whether it is a fact that the travel to Calcutta by the day services metre-gauge section of the Guntakal and can get connection to Delhi. Bom- District in the Southern Railway has bay. l^adras etc., by the night airmail been allotted 70 locomotives from the service. imports this year; I49I Written Amwers 22 3EPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1492
(b) whether some of these loco- The Deputy Minister of CkMnmuni- motives will be put in use on the cattona (Shri BaJ Balnidiir): (a) No. Pakala-Dharmavaram Section; and (b) It is proposed to acquire a plot (c) whether the track in the Pakala- of land for construction of a Depart- Dharmavaram Section will be strength- mental building. ened this year in order to make it ^suitable for these heavier locomotives? R a il w a y St a l l Co n tr a c to r s Fe e The Deputy Minister of Railways 621. Shri Muniswamy: Will the and T ran^ri (Shri Alairesan): (a) Minister of Railways be pleased to No, Sir. The distribution to districts state: of the locomotives on order has not yet been decided by the Southern (a) whether it is a fact that the stall Railway. contractor’s fee is abnormally high on the Southern Railway as compared to (b) No. They cannot run on this other Indian Railways; and section until the track has been strengthened. (b) if so, whether Government pro- (c) About 90 miles of the track may pose to fix a uniform rate on all the be strengthened by 1955-36 and the RaUways? remaining 51 miles probably by 1957-58. The Deputy Minister of Railways O i l Se e d s and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a), and (b). Such a comparison is not 619. Shri yiswaniitlia Beddy: WiU feasible as Railways fix licence fees the Minister of Food and Ag^nlture after taking into account the merits be pleased to state: of each case based on the sale poten- tial and the conditions locally prevail- (a) the extent to which the target ing. The feasibility of securing great- fixed for the production of oil seeds in er uniformity in licence fees now the Five Year Plan has been lulflUed; charged on the diiTerent Railways is, however, under examination at pre- (b) the expected shortrfall at the sent along with all aspects of catering end of the Plan period; and on Indian Railways.
(c) the main reasons therefor? S a s t r i Aw a rd
The Minister of Food and Agrkal- 622. Shri V. P. Nayan WiU the tare (Shri Kidwai); (a) The target Minister of Labour be pleased to state fixed for the production of oilseeds in the period for which the appeal of the the Five Year Plan has been achieved Bank Employees Union and other ap- already. peals on the Sastri Award, pubUshed in Apnl 1953, were pending before the (b) and (c). Do not arise. Labour Appellate Tribunal in Bombay? The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. P . & T . r a T in in g Ce n t r e Desal): Nearly a year. 620. Shri T. B. Yittal Bao: WiU the Minister of Oommonicatlons be pleased to state: : w r #wrr (a) whether any building has since been acquired by Government to house the Posts and Telegraphs Training (^) wr % rfWwR Centre at Hyderabad; and (b) if not. the steps that Govern- ment propose to take in this directloa? m PrwR artr 398 L.aiX *493 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1054 Written Answers 1494
{w) ?t, 5ft W The Minister of Food and Agricul- ture (Shri Kidwai): (a)— W»F Wrf'Wr ^ ^ 3TRIT t ?
Hie Deputy Minister af Communl- 1952-53 1953-54 cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) The (Lakh Lakh case is under consideration. 1 maunds) maunds) Punjab . . 30-90^ (b) Does not arise. • 31-27 PEPSU . • 49*76 34-91 Himachal Pradesh Nil Nil C b n t b n a r y E x h i b i t i o n T r a in i n O r is s a
624. Shri Sanganna: Will the Minis- (b) No sugar mill in the above ter of Railways be pleased to state: States produced sugar from gur either (a) whether the Centenary Exhibi- in 1952-53 or 1953-54. tion Train went round Orissa in the months of July and August, 1954; P a l o h a t P o s t O f f ic e (b) if so, the names of the places 626. Shri 1. Eacharan: Will th^ where the train halted; Minister of Communicailons be pleas- ed to state: (c) the number of persons who visited this train at all these places; (a) the number of cases of loss of and cash and disappearance of insured parcels that occurred in the Head Post (d) the income and expenditure in- Office at Palghat during the last four volved in the trip to Orissa? years;
The Deputy Minister of Railways (b) the steps that have been taken and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) to trace the guilty persons and the The Centenary Exhibition Train visi- results achieved; and ted stations in Orissa in the months of June and July, 1954. (c) the measures that have been (b) Puri, Cuttack and Sambalpur. taken to prevent the recurrence of such cases? (c) 58,528. The Deputy Minister of Communi-'* (d) Income: Rs. 12,99e/8/-. cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) 1950- Expenditure: Separate figures 51 N il regarding expenditure in connection 1951-52 There were two cases of with the visit of the Train to Orissa loss of cash and one of loss Stations alone are not available. of insured letters (not par- cels). In the latter case 3 SUOARCANB insured letters to the ag- gregate value of Rs. 2,100 625. Shri Ram Dass: Will the Minis- were lost. ter of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: 1952-53 N il ^ (a) the total quantity of sugar-cane 1953-54 N il consumed in the sugar mills in the (b) All the cases were reported to States of Punjab, PEPSU and Himachal the Police, who could not trace the Pradesh during 1952-53 and 1953-54; culprits. and (c) Monetary responsibilty was en- (b) the number of sugar mills in the forced on the officials for the negli- above States which prepare sugar frpm gence shown by them and this had the our? desired deterrent effect 1495 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMfiER 1954 Written Answers 1496
A c c id e n t s i n M in e s out or will be carried out when flood eZJ. Shrl T. B. Vittal Rao: WUl the water subsides and local conditions Minister of Labour be pleased to state: permit.
(a) the number of workers injured P o s t O f f ic e s i n S i t a m a r h i in non-fatal accidents and disabled for a week or more in Coal, Gold, Mica 629. Th. Jugal Kishore Sinha: WiU ^and Manganese mines during 1953; the Minister of Communications be (b) how these figures compare with pleased to state the names of the new those of 1952; and post offices that will be opened in Sitamarhi Sub^vision in pursuance (c) the steps that are being taken to of the recent policy of Government to reduce accidents in these mines? have a post office for each group of villages with a population of 2,000 or The Minister of Labour (Shrl K. K. more? Desai): (a) and (b). A statement is placed on the Table of the The Deputy Minister of Communi Sabha. (See Appendix VIII, annexure cations (Shrl Raj Bahadur): A state- No. 18) A serious injury is one in ment is laid on the Table of the House. 'which a person sustains permanent (See Appendix VIII, annexure No. loss or injury to the sight or hearing 19). or a fracture of any limb, or in which he is forced to remain away from work “L u b a n C l o v e r ” F e r t il i z e r for a period exceeding 20 days. Infor- 630. Shrl Buchhlkotaiah: Will the mation relating to accidents which are Minister of Food and Agriculture be of less serious nature is at present not pleased to state: collected but it is proposed to pres- , cribe a ‘register of minor accidents’ (a) whether it is a fact that some under the draft Mines Rules published efforts are being made to multiply recently for criticism, h the seeds of fertilising crop known as “Luban Clover” in Uttar Pradesh; (c) The Department of Mines is taking all precautionary measures to (b) if so, the manner in which it ensure safety at work by enforcing the will be used as fertiliser; and provisions of the Mines Act, and the rules, regulations and byelaws framed (c) the speciality of this crop as ► thereunder. The Regulations are under compared to the other fertiliser crops? t^iXl revision and their enfoncement The Minister of Food and Agricul make mining safer still. Steps are ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) Yes. Efforts also being taken to increase the fre- are being made to multiply the seeds quency of inspection. of Hubam Clover (not Luban Clover as mentioned in the question) in Uttar N o r t h E a s t e r n R a il w a y Pradesh. The seeds of this clover 628. Th. Jugal Kishore »nha: WiU were obtained from America and by the Minister of Railways be pleased now about five maunds of the seed of to state the period of time that will this plan^have been produced. ^ be taken to repair the approach roads (b) It is suitable for being grown of different Railway goods-sheds and after late paddy where no other stations on the North Eastern Rail- legume can grow under unirrigated way that became impassable recently conditions. Hubam Clover will im- due to floods? prove the fertility of late paddy fields and consequently bring about increase The Deputy Minister of RaUways in average yields of paddy. and Transport (Sbri AUgesan): In most of such cases the roads though (c) Hubam Clover is a hardy varie- submerged were not damaged. Neces- ty of clover, lather coarse in compari- sary repairs have either been carried son to berseem and is not relished by 1497 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 14 9 8 the cattle to the same extent as ber- (b) The results are as follows:— seem. It can grow without irrigation, I8 t 1953 1954 which is its speciality. It is, there- From April, to loth Sept., fore, most suitable for being grown during the months of November to Parlakimedi Waltair- April after late paddy has been har- lisht Raipur vested where berseem would not grow , Rsfiwsy Section under unirrigated conditions. This is a fertilising clover crop like berseem but unlike berseem it does not require (i) No. of checks irrigation. msde . . 56 11 (2) No. of persons prosecuted. . 1 ,1 1 9 49 W a t b r -L oqoed Ar ea s n e a r Ho w ra h (3) No. of persons R a il w a y St a t io n discharged after collecting farei. 6S1. Shri N. B. Chowdliury: Will etc. . . 334 19 the Minister of Railways be pleased (4) Amounts realised: to state: Rs. Rs. (a) whether there Is any proposal (0 F«re . . 5.«79 335 before Government to lease out the (tO Penalty . 1,624 114 tanks on Railway land near Howrah (sn) Pines . 2,75 ? 67 Station for fishery purposes; and B m p l o t m b n t Exchang es in Ma d h ta (b) if so, whether it will be leased P r a d e s h out to the West Bengal State Govern- ment or direct to any private 633. Shri N. A. Borkar: Will the individual? Minister of Labour be pleased to state: (a) the total number of ex-service- The Deputy Minister of Railways men registered in the Employment and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Exchanges in Madhya Pradesh during No. Sir. the last three years;
(b) Does not arise. (b) the number of persons who secured employment through the Ex- change during the above period; and
T ic k e t l b s s T r a v e l (c) the number of Scheduled Castes among them? €32. Shri Sanganna: Will the Minis- of ter of Railways be pleased to state: The Minister Labour (Shri K. K. Dcpai): (a) 6.177 during the period (a) whether special concentrated August. 1951, to July, 1954. checks under the personal supervi- (b) 1,501. sion of the Commercial Officers were (c) Information is not available as conducted on the Parlakimedi Light separate statistics pertaining to Sche- Railway line and the Waltalr-Raipur duled Caste £x-servi^emen are not Railway line (Eastern Railway Zone) maintained. during the years 1953 and 1954 (up- to-date) in respect of ticketless travel- F ood Sto c k ling; and 634. Shri N. M. Lingam: Will the Minister of Food and Agrieultore be (b) if so, the results thereof? pleased to state the quantity of food ^ains held by the various State The Deputy Minister of Railways Governments at tho time of announoo- and TraaspoH (Shri Alarewi): (a) ment of decontrol throughout the Yes, from 1st April, 1958. countnr? 1499 Written Answers 22 3£PTEMB£R 1954 Written Answers 1 5 0 0
The Minister of Food and Afiicnl- the river, due prima facie to the col- tore (Shrl Kidwal); A statement is lapse of a pier of the Bridge under it. laid on the Table of the House. (See Except the Inspector of Works, who Appendix VIII. annexure No. 20) was found on 30th August. 1954, in an exhausted condition and is now in I m p o r t o f S u g a r hospital, the other four are presumed to have died. 635. Shil K. G. SodhU: WiU the Minister of Food and Agrionltim be Alipurduar District is on the North pleased to state: Eastern Railway, not on the Eastern Railway as stated in the question. (a) the probable cost of sugar pro- posed to be imported during the (c) As this is an unusual occurr- current year; and ence, no specific action can be taken for the prevention of similar cases.
(b) the period for which sugar Br h a c h b s i n A s s a m L i n k would continue to be imported in the country? 637. Shri Sadhan GnpU: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to The Minister of Food and Agricnl- state: tnre (Shrl Kidwai): (a) The probable (a) the number of places where C. & F. cost of 6,90.000 tons of refined there have been breaches in the new sugar proposed to be imported during Assam Link line and in the railway the period April—December, 1954, is lines in the Alipurduar Pistrlcl In Rs. 35,42,53,000/-. North Eastern Railway;
(b) As long as indigenous produc- (b) the number of cases in which tion of sugar is found insufficient to there have been breaches in previous meet the internal requirements. years also; and (c) the steps that have been taken by Government to see that breaches R a il w a y m e n in v o l v e d IK R a i l -A c c id e n t s in the line do not recur in future? 636. Shri Sadhan Gupta: Will the The Deputy Minister of Railways Minister of Railways be pleased to and Trannwrt (Shri Alagesan): (a) state: The number of places where there have been breaches to the new Assam (a) whether any railwaymen lost Rail Link is 28 and the nimiber in the their lives recently due to accidents lines in the Alipurduar Division of the id the Alipurduar District of the North Eastern Railway is 51. Eastern Railway; (b) Seven of the places breached in 1952 have again been breached this (b) if so, the nature and causes of year. these accidents; and (c) The steps to be taken by the ’The Depaty Minister of Railwayfi and Transport (Shri Alaresan): Tourist Publicity material is generally produced in India and distributed 5W9 j w m : wT«rft- both in India and abroad. Separate figures of expenditure are not at pre- 31^ iT’ft iTf r q r ^ : sent maintained. The total expendi- ture during 1953-54 was Rs. 2,54.800/-. (*p) «FTr ^ t Pp
Br id g e s i n A s s a m •ft# sfirer ^ 3wf % ^ ^ ^ «rr f €S9. Shri K. P. Tripathi: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to sUte: ( ^ ) irf? ?ft w # (a) whether the construction of the new bridge on the river near Misa- mari Station in Assam has been com- pleted; and L o u s h ip a t A r e a IS42. Shri RLAang Keishing: Will (b) if so, what is proposed to be the Minister of Food and Agriculture done with the old bridge? be pleased to state: Th^ De^ty Mintoter of RaUways (a) the acreage of land brought and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) under cultivation in the Loushipat 9ft per cent, work of construction of area (Manipur) during 1952-53 and the new bridge has been completed. 1953-54;
(b) The old bridge is proposed to (b) the amount contributed by be dismantled as neither the Defence Government; and Department nor the Government of (c) the revenue to be collected Assam are interested in the purchase annually by Government from the re- of the old bridge for using it as a claimed land? road bridge The Minister of Food and Agricul Daiss OP I n d i a n A i r l i n e s H o s t e s s e s ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) to (c). The _ r Dr. Ram Snbhag Singh: required information is not available \ Shrimaii Renu Chakravartty: and has been called for from the State Government. It will be laid on the Will the Minister of Communications Table of the Sabha as soon as receiv- be pleased to state: ed. (a) whether it is a fact that uni- forms o| hostesses of the Indian Air Lines are proposed to be standardized; and V^O : «wr
(b) if sOk what are the details of the proposalt
The Depnly Minister of Oommunioa- tlona (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) Yes. Sir. t : ^ (h> The matter is being examined. No proposals have yet been formulat- (w ) ^ ^ ed. 1503 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 19S4 Written Answers 1504
*rf ^ n f ATio NAL M a l a r ia C o n t r o l P i o o r a m m ^ I ? 645. Shri C. R. Chowdarj: WiU the Minister ^of Health be pleased to state The Deputy Minister of Railways the amount of aid given to tkie Gov- and Transport (Shri Alagresan): (a) ernment of Andhra in 1953 and upto At two stations work has been com- the end of August, 1954 under the pleted. At three stations about 75 per National Malaria Control Scheme? cent, has been completed. At five sta- The Minister of Health (Rajkunarl tions work has recently been taken in Amrit giv hand. At four stations materials are Kaur): The amount of aid of to being, collected. At one station work en by the Government India will be started after certain track al- Andhra State under the National Mala- 1953 terations are done. ria Control scheme in and upto the end of August, 1954, Is as fol> (b) Ten. lows:—
MateiU BttiHMtad «oit O v e r s e e r C o u r s e Rs. D.D.T. . 2,8a,i3 5 lb». 4><4>97« 644. Shri Ram Saran: Will the Microicopes . a 3.670 Minister of Labour be pleased to state: Jeeps . . a 16,010 (a) whether under the Technical Antarox . 37a lbs. 760 Training Scheme of the Ministry any Afii,9i6 training is given for the 'Overseer Course*; Resochin tablets . 9^666 nos.
(b) if so, the places where such A c c i d e n t i n A l u m i n i u m F a c t o r t » training is being ^ven at present; and A s a n s o l 646. Shri K. IL B tm : Will /the (c) whether the diploma given is Minister of Labour be pleased to state: recognised by the Central and the State Governments? , (a) whether any accident occurred in J. K. Aluminium Factory at 1954; The Minister of Labour (Shri K. EL Asansol in May Desai): (a) and (b). Training in the 1(b) if so, what was the cause Overseer Course which was being thereof; given till recently at the Training Centres/Institutes at Calcutta. Konl- (c) the number of persons who sus Bilaspur (Madhya Pradesh) and tained injuries; Benaras, has been abolished with effect from the current session which • (d) whether any enquiry committee started in August, 1954. The question has been appointed; and of reviving this course is under consi- (e) whether any action has been deration. taken against the persons responsible for this accident? (c) The Diploma awarded by this The Minister of Labour (Shri K. M. Ministry for this trade has so far been Desai): (a) Yes. recognised by the Gov^nments of Assam, Delhi, Bihar, PEPSU and (b) While removing the discharge Himachal Pradesh. The Government valve at the bottom of an autoclave of Madhya Pradesh recognised it for which has been emptied and thrown the Sub-Overseer cadre of their ser- out of commission for three days» vice. The question of recognition of caustic soda solution which might this Diploma for posts under the Cen- have been left in the autoclave splash- tral Government is still under consi- ed on the workers engaged in remov> deration. ing the valve. 1505 Written Answers 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1506
(c) Five. Of these, three died later (b) A Road-overbridge in place of in the hospital. Tht other two receiv- the existing level crossing on the ed only minor injuries. Guntur-Amaravathi Road is proposed to be included in the Budget for (d) An enquiry was conducted by 1955-56. the Inspector of Factories. it) The Chief Inspector of Factories, The provision of an over-bridge at West Bengal, reviewed the case and Tenali has not been recommended by was satisfied that the responsibility the State Government so far. for the accident could not be attribut- ed to any person. He has taken steps to prevent accidents of this nature in future.
OVBMRIDOBS IN GUNTUR AND TENALI
M7. 8hrl Will the ^ Uinlster of Kallways be pleased to state: (a) whether any representation has sTTT ? been received urging the necessity of constructing bridges over the Rail- The Deputy Minister of Railways way lines in the congested areas of and Transport (Shri Alagciwi): The tk# towns of Guntur and Tenali in average speed per hour of all goods tk« Andhra State; and trains on the North-Eastern Railway during 1953-54 was 7’38 miles on the (b) If so, the decision that has been Metre Gauge and 6 .11 miles on the taken thereon? Narrow Gauge. On an average a The Depaty Minister of Railways Metre Gauge wagon was loaded 47 aa4 Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) times on the North-Eastern Railway Yea, Sir. during the same year. Vol. v n — No. 24 22nd September, 1954 (i^edaes(!kqr)
LOK SABHA DEBATES
(Part II—Proceedings other than Questions and Answers)
( Fo/. V II contains N os. 16 —$ l )
LOK SABHA SfeCRETARlAT NBW DELHI
ANNAS (INL/8M1UJM0S (rOOtOM) C o M t E N t S
C o l u m n s
Committee on Private Members’ Bills and Resolutions— Twelfth Report p r e s e n t e d ...... 2739
Displaced Persons (Compensation and Rehabilitation) Bill— Passed ...... 2729— ^2800
Constitution (Third Amendment) Bill— ^Motion to consider— not concluded ...... 2801— 2872 LOK SABHA DEBATES D t ^ L .. 2 ^ (Part II—Proceedings other than Questions and Answers)
2 72 9 273®
LO K SABHA that discussion on this Bill will con clude by 2-15 P.M. Wednesday, 22nd September^ 1954. After this Bill, the House will taSv up consideration of the Constitutioi (Third Amendment) Bill. As tbr The Lok Sabha met at Eleven House is aware, six hours have beei of the Clock, allotted -for all the remaining stage [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] of that Bill.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Now, before we proceed further, ia view of the very short time at the (See Part I) disposal of the House so far as the discussion of the Displaced Persons Bill is concerned, I should like to be 12 N o o n specific about the time to be taken COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEM- on the remaining two stages of the BERS» BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS Bill. The general discussion is going on and it has gone on for 3 houn P resentation of T w e lf t h R eport and 46 minutes. So, how long shall we continue the general discussion? Is Shri Altekar (North Satara): 1 beg it the idea that the clauses will have to present the Twelfth Report of the a very short time, and then the third Committee on Private Members* Bills reading will be absolutely nominal? and Resolutions. Shri Gidwani (Thana): One hour may be given to the clauses. DISPLACED PERSONS (COM Mr. Speaker: One hour for the PENSATION AND REHABILITA clauses. And the third reading? TION) BILL—contd. Shri Gidwani: Half an hour. Mr. Speaker: The House will now proceed with the legislative Busi Tlie Minister of RehabiUtatlon (S U ness—further consideration of the A. P. Jain): I think one hour mot€ following motion moved by Shri may be allotted for the general dis Bhonsle on the 21st September: cussion, and say about 45 minutef for the clauses. There are not many “That the Bill to provide for amendments and the amendments are the pasrment of compensation and of a very simple nature. Half an rehabilitation grants to displaced hour may be allotted for the third persons and for matters con reading. Perhaps one or two mem nected therewith, as reported by bers of the House may like to speak the Joint Committee, be taken in the general discussion. I will alae into consideration/’ require about half an hour to reply.
Now, of the six hours allotted to The Prime Minister and Minister ef this Bill, 3 hours and 46 minutes External Affairs and Defence (8hil have already been availed of yester Jawaharlal Nehru); I think. Sir, your day, and two hours and fourteen suggestion is much better, if I may minutes still remain. This will mean suggest to my colleague, because 403 L.S.D. 2731 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2732 Rehabilitation) Bill [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] once you spend the time in the first stages, you may be hard put to it in the later stages. It is far better to save time in the earlier stages. Mr. Speaker: I am entirely in the ^ fro" art*? atiT fra hands of the House. I think I should ^ ^ ^ qf? if ^ fix one hour for the clauses and half an hour far the third reading. Now, let me make up the mathematics of W ^ atft this. 3 hours and 46 minutes out of fir ^ ^ 6 hours—so we shall continue the general discussion on the considera ^ I ?nfT st ^55^ tion motion for 45 minutes more. fURV ^ ^ ^ 5if I arr^ The Minister of Food and A fri- ar^ ^75% h i HHTfT trt TfnT culture (Shri Kidwai): 44 minutes. ^ JFhit I Mr. Speaker: Yes. We shall have W T ^ r*w t m S9 minutes for the next stai?e.
Some Hon. Members rose— art*? art*? JMr. Speaker: Pandit Thakur Das ^ f s r a - mi- Bfaargava. 1 5^ arsf Vandlt Tbaknr Das Bhargava rose— «T? h m v ^ ^ h i Mr. Speaker: There are only 45 *}mf ^ TrfW r aif? minutes that remain now and there are some three or four speakers as I aift aresrt ?mj ?«{vhi4' ? W ^ tfae^ Minister’s reply. I was thinking ^5Ts^ ^ ^ I *5>riV5T of the time to be given to the hon. Members who wish to speak. But it r>»^ *mrft ^ the Hon’ble Minister will take half arsf V7HT an hour. Then, practically one ^ I 17^ ^ WRT ^ (T5f»rnT) : arff a»f? iTifsm 51^ ^Tffn f W 3JT w«UT I fTT^amrat >1?^ 'Tsiiqi WITT ^ avTw it ansrfi^a- ^ mtf sf iW 1?^ aiii«*ja ^^ I T«>!T <« T^ I *1^ ?N t t , I a n ftn fa ift «tf anf wr»ii ^ anft [S h r i B arm an in the Chair] 115®^ arsf ^ 9ift ar*^ j f ^ 3(f arer?^ i^l® ?jf T ff anhnfs ^ *j^ ^53pf 2 ^ flft 5^ 3IT ?3ra^ ^^11 I f fWT*RT *}* T'^ti |;tRn if •sr^ *iRm,ffiV ^ >iT»ft?g ^ vh N N h ariV ^ ^ hr^jf ^ ,f^ ?TT? # *ifnm k; f«B «P^ »TT’l »fe a n n t W } ^ r M «r? WfTTT ^ f*ti rt9TO W71 4 ^ ffW ift i*BT an^^ft ^TPjT jhfT it I ^ ^ 3?^ arfj Psnr 2735 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2736 Rehabilitation) Bill
ari^ fs n r ? rr? »nr*W5 ^ far»isiA ^ if ^ fn n fe f i ^ airro^ ^ T?RT ni5TiT ^ i f w aif? ^ 5it ^ aw rrot *f ?n ^ art*? «f}iH^H ^piff 'T? r^HT I ^ ^ ^ ^V*iT #* ? w "rt»ir % 5f T»i^t ^ ?r?f ^ wfT art*? » M » f5 ^ ^ h e T cthi I ann ^ ^hr ^ *n*} ?W r ^r?f m i' |is r fTRT qicftVr ?TEr ^ s»^ 5H1T I r T *n^ I aipT 3rt fT irr t «rt ^ 5 ^aiT *T8 *r*n i fsRT W HT?^ ?rt amr gir ?iw ^ ^ tR ^ ^ ^ »hr ^ art^ airar fiW ft *CT ?Pi?r ?9IT, ^ aRH 5^ air^, ^t r h - i ^
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w ^ rtW* 1^ snsT^ f I j i w # snr »rf! P^t ^it sifti 2739 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2740 Rehabilitation) Bill
* 55^ *s^ ^ i f qr?^ jjli ^ *p^ a i ^ ^ f I 5Pr fjTo fsp^n ^ qra- ^ *n*raT »rat ?rt ?rt srnr^ ^ 5‘^'s^ nm?)Tn I i f Tpfirqpqt^ ^ ^ ^ Roo ?>w ^ wmhNf s; «ti^ WfjJse I «it ^ apT? «ni y^ 'S'S *n*r^ r*mr ^ «iT fv *mwiT *rhft ^ it ^ q t TO'ff 5IT qn ^nsrar c; w W s s ^ ^ ^ simsii ^ T!T «nw fqrqr ^ 5 5 ^ a ift ^l'W>atil>fl I ^ «ft !gW 7 gfW %TS ^ ^ f? i?«p T«- ^trnr# q;;^ *i»^ f«m ? ^?s?tT f anr*ft ^ ^ qittfcWr «rmr anm «T5 sf^ ^00 «n it^z :{oo ?>Tl^ M *T^, ?lf«FT ^ w ^ ^T*T I f^vhR ^4J1 ^ ^rnm»ft‘ ^ *p^ kiV ^ «ih <^ht ai*^« w 1*i *ft ^ »ft fim I *f «i>i?n fv ^35»f 4 »ptrfW H ^ ^ ^ grf 4^ 5JT ?5 iW f H,««*IH # a irr ^ ^ n m ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ «tw, ?R W ?f ^ I am? ajTT iJiHj^iFf ^ 5!W ?il'^»i * f 'l^»ni '^ 15^1 ^ ^ 'HIM f w ^ ^ ^ am? m » l'r<^^«T?T ?ni^ ^ T W J ) ^ *; ajTo ^ q sih ^ sn r ^ ^ ?rt ^ * 5^ «R ^ ari^ «F5 ^rti JHT r r » r a in f ^ #* * f ^ # I ip^ ?5^ft ^ fin^ 1 a n r r ^ t w < m a n r ^ ^ f«l! «ft tfo !7 5iftrnTi V f ilh ^ I T^T ^ fs itR T «^ |'{I »Mi*jr m ^ ^ ^ I *f arw ^ HTt}* iRW f9T*RT anf «in ^ q^STiT ^ a n t ^ v «fN r ^ ? a w 11 ^ «r^ fsra- ^ «il r#«pft JJiq^ «()^ ^ f^5 fTT ^ anr^Tjrf ^ *tVIt ^ «RT «IT afft y«jH)<» iUhr^ I V kK f w f?B7th fssRT ^ Tiq^tini;!, Mi?»'<:1)^ a rr^ i 'yv^ ^ v*T ar^r w 5 tw ^ ^ I f i r ari^ 5qr^ ^ t, ^ r*n^ vttflFT fflRT ^fN’ 4 UK *T*r ^ 5^^ ?ft *n»T f ^ mf^o n W ^ ^ «ft ^ ^ ?nn 3TT w?iT f an p ^igq»l<<}i''.i'T ^ T7 qr aiTOT^ «ft, 5j^^an«fr5 «*iT?r^ ^ *T?^ f*T ff I ftfvN e ^»ift #, *ftHn ^ ^ art'?*f*'3tHV^f»rfTO7PT ^ ^ ^ ihft, ^ fiTelH! ^ ^ ariW s^Tw^k ^ >;5nfr l^rfeiT wf«r] ^ ^^srra' ^IT >d HA>1 ^ «WT i t I i ^ ^ ^ ^ ...... 4 qrer ir«i! ♦iiw «ll ifsRT 3lf? *f? Mr. Chairman: His time is up. ^ r w sr ajf? p r Pandit Thakur Das Bhargrava: I ^ f if think you have given me five minutes more. ^<1^ « r f hi> Mr. Chairman: No. You have anf antaVJ t? an ^ already taken live minutes more. You I arf? VO jr f g w asr were allowed by the Speedcer fifteen 3^ 9 ^ 15^ >3.1^ ippWe ^ hrtsRCT ?irf»T5r t , f 1 ^ simiT < if ^ snff i t , ?HV*r anr wrr f? if 1 ^745 Displaced Persona 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2746 Rehabilitation) Bill ^ nsT 5T^ ^ I jJfvH ^ f w 5i? n ar# iT^ ^aiT # I ^ ^ ^ ^ 7 ^ H r r 'ft ^ j f W F m ^ ?«l! 3JR appiT art^ p r ?TT?r ^ ?TT ^ *rtW T' JT ff 3fV ^ ??r^fr grf ft ?T?iT T*l f W ^ ^ frtrr «JTf 3TWT I *TT?5 ir f t aft ^ #JTRfcrp strt vnm I wit ^ it ^ frHW fTFT T?r f >rift «ft I ^ ^ «T7^ ?%TIW ^r?57if ^r?T lift sfiff ihft f«i! ^ wtr if t l?0 ^0 ^>r : W 5?r iV^iT ^ I ^ iRHT ift P r w f® arfTf l*rr ^ 1Vmr snff # I " %?rr ^ r^ |[ aftr *t f » arm ar# ^r?[5rr f 1 >f' 57rr ^t ir^ ?rtrr?r «ft (hrarr f5n?pn^“ < rf?^) : «fnT »pn?iT ? w r f I
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I P.M. ^ ^ ^ ^ ft I JT? a rrr Pt??f1r «|r «rr ?ft i '^Tp^cfr ^ i*f 1 ^ WV ’f ^ t. ^ ?r, i x ^ ^ ^ r w ^ wf^r % ^rnr iprm ^ 31^ *TRT^ 5T^^T?rr ^^rpfi ^ fv ^ ®«nr then he may speak on the Third Reading. r<«l'{''ff % «rft «»ft»Trr T T ^ !T»IT ^ ^ w «PR?TT 3ft ^ 3f;?r: ? Pandit Thaknr Das BhargaTa: It will be better if the hon. Minister is v»fV 5TfT m ^ «rr fv allowed to speak now, because then % 3faiTCift if fsR-^l' perhaps many motions might not be moved. f(P W sriflf ’af55?flf I r jj^nr, snr? {r^rrt Shri A. P. Jain: I will take aboul ten minutes. fU K jfr >r’T«ft ^ ^ T w fjn r f^ ir arw 14' •ft «fo ^ 0 ^ 4 3,TT!r 3f# ^ ^ ftr ^ f 3ftT af^irnT 7^T?!Tif^nf^ fvfrvRTtft # armft ^ rr ^ T fwqr 9iTir ^ »p*r ?r «p»T 3TO amrr ^ 2759 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1964 (Compensation and 2760 Rehabilitation) Bill
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4 3fi VTfff m?cfi fv ^ frtTrrnni 5>TT W f% 5f? ?TT arti n SPTfer>4f ^fir |; »TTH ^ H?W(r #' ?% >t?. f»Ti^'«f5fn aifi^ ftr^T arr^T^Tf % ^ *T(*f«5T TWr t 5T4r ^ «Pi'T #■ I ^ 3R q^fJlT n|f %-CTff^jf):?irjrf 1 3ri?t ?*r 'srra I f » ?fi»r % I JT5 T IT «TT *PPft- 4' 5w •prrirra’ fsrr ^r.^r 3rfiT i 3nw ^ ^T3^r % ?rnr^ f i *T5^fip??r ^ 3 ;t t arr<3T? w 3rrf%ft <17: armr f ^ Bfl§ 3TT?ftiTf ^r fta r t aftr IT5 ^T^*Pfw ?r^ ^ arr q^^ftPn »rft^ f ¥3'fr ?r^T?51 • ^ t artr irsrp t % sft #^tt ^ 5psptar?r^^n 1 1*5**^ ^ fjpirr 3rnr ^ spni^ amnrr? ^ 13ft ftp ?n ?P R ^ r fT^fiTTr i i ?[^nT ^ 3ft ^ !P m jarr t ^ 3rnr, if % 3i> f 0 f%JTT 14% ?r r ^ *t^ ?nrnT ?m«ft r*f> jflw rn ^ ! T T?: 5ft f® Pp ijt vNf *PT 3 p ^ ^"ioifit "T ^STTJT ^ 5 t r I ,3 T T ^ 5T f?OT ^ 3rnT 3il< ^ tht arnr ^ 14 ? € TTiT^T «rr Pp ijarr^nrT fe iT ^ t ??r*A Pp ttjt ^ 9>^ «rr^ *r®PRt t t Ppitt aftr
ftiOT ’ftt aftr ^arrftra ^ f’iftir ^R% q7?r TTwr f)ft xtiw 3)T!fy I 3ft f® ^ > fw f> ^RTcft TT# ^ ^t ^ atPf ^ an’TT ^ft 3ft Jrft 5TTSRT «ft # # ^T’Tnft 403 L .S .D . 37I9 I>iBpiaoec{ Persons 22 SEFSEnMBXR WS4. (Compensation and 2764^ Rehabilitation) Bill ijo %VPt1 «|tt 'JTTft WT opr 5W f% >T3nf#? fr'T smr % 3WT ? m w rfVT ^ ^ !T^ 5> arRfV 1 ’T^ «Ft «P*^«inT jtt i arrr ^ arnrfipff ^r jtt an^fiTJTf ?r c t iw p f ?rW R «l?t 5TOB % ^ 3TR W r 5T^ ^ ^T?ft f t -!> ijsp ’p n w ftvnr ftr 5?y % arf^r ^ ^ f aft^ #■ am ^ t i^ fi?55r?rr ' ft? f 9V^ t ’ii’R I? apR $qx vt fiv w ^3^ 5 "t Tt%5r ‘F^’iT I ^ v rrv < ^ n l ^ I ^r^T f v *f flTVTT % 3TRIRST vr ^ ft? f^?HT ^ m »m fjr^rrr W nW VT 9TRTT «T^ VT 9V5rrfv ^ «rr 55TTTr an^^ 3ITIRK ^ t ^t^rr ^?it- Mr. Chairman; The question is: ^ ^ aftr »rfl^ arreftpff ‘That the Bill to provide for the payment of compensation and re habilitation grants to displaced w»w 1 ^ ^ ^ariftrir # persons and for matters connected therewith, as reported by the ftmrT «flt ^ ^rm ^ar t Joint Committee, be taken into wlE ®rr ?ft»Ts afir gmrerir «flf consideration.” The motion was adopted, gwvT inwT ftsT Mr. diajlrman: We shall now go^ T lj^ , *T ***! ^ ^K clause by clause. «iT^ Jim ^ 5ft 5rnK ^arrM Clause 2— (Deftnitiona) w iPTfT ^ arrar 1 ^ ^ Mr. Clialrman: There are two ansfvrtVT *ii‘i«T fin% *ft pnr, ^ tt amendments in the Order Paper. Shri Nand Lai Sharma: absent. There ?^JTr'rr-ii'?t^f3rn%f%>? ‘.srsr^ft is no other amendment to this clause.. The question is: T lf *ft?PT an^*TT, A' Pirc “That clause 2 stand part of ^ ?rnr^ ^iil ^(^'•T H 3(M the Bill.” The motion was adopted. ?R3> TT 'ftl<.'i ^ f Clause 2 was added to the Bill, #flT ^ I t • In page 3, line 29, after “Gazette” Shri N. B. Chowdhury: I am not insert “and publication in all dailies pressing the amendment. in India” . Mr. Cliairman: There is no other This is a very simple amendment amendment. So I put clause 4 to the I want that the dates by which the House. various categories of displaced per sons are to submit their applications The question is: should not only be notified in the ‘That clause 4 stand part of the Official Gazette, but also in all the Biir». dailies in India. Because, we know that in our country, very few people The motion was adopted. get these Gazettes and very few people can read newspapers even. Clause 4 was added to the Bill But. if it is published in the news papers, it would have wider circula Clause 5— (Determination of public tion and somehow or other, due to dues by Settlement Officers). wide publicity, displaced persons who Shri N. B. Chowdhury: I have an are scattered all over the country, may amendment. No. 17. 1 want to say a come to know of it. We feel that few words. there is necessity for such wide publi city through publication in all the Mr. Chairman: He wants to move dailies of India. Otherwise, they the amendment, or simply to say a few would not be able to know that We words? expect that the Government would do better to send intimation to such Shri N. B. Chowdhury: I want to persons because they have got a list move amendment No. 17. of all displaced persons who have verified claims. Government says that I beg to move: it is not feasible. If the Govern ment is not capable of sending inti In page 4, line 27, after “if any**^ mation to all persons concerned, it insert “except money granted on should at least be published in all the account of maintenance allowance and dailies. That is my point. scholarships” . Mr. Chairman: May I know the re action of the hon. Minister? In clause 5, the question of determi nation of public dues by Settlement The Deputy Minister of Rehabilita Officers has been dealt with. Various tion (Shri J. K. mionsie): Actually, kinds of public dues have been de it is not necessary to put this parti fined in this Bill. And here I want cular clause in the Bill. In the past to exclude from public dues the we have been giving a lot of publicity, money granted on account of main and we shall give more publicity, as tenance allowance and scholarships. It is being done, in every possible has just now been announced that manner. certain kinds of maintenance Sliri K. K. Basu (Diamond Har allowance would not be adjusted bour): Is it published in any of the against the compensation scheme. We journals, newspapers ...... want that it should not be confined to certain old people only, but it Slirt J, K. Bhonsle: Yes, we publish should be extended further. At least it in all the newspapers, and over the in the ca ^ of the students who are 2767 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 276S Rehabilitation) Bill [Shri N, B. Chowdhury] poor students, refugee students, who But I am afraid I cannot accept the came over to India and were given broad proposition of writing off all certain stipends or scholarships, their the educational loans recoverable from guardians should not be asked to persons who had claims or whose adjust these amounts against the guardians had claims. claims of compensation, because we think that these students were put to Shri N. B. Chowdhury: I press this a great many difficulties, and under amendment. such difficult circumstances these scholarships and stipends were given Mr. Chairman: The question is: to the refugee students. So, we think that the Government should condone In page 4, Une 27, after “if any*» it. They should write off the amount insert “except money granted on that was given by way of scholarship account of maintenance allowance and to the refugee students. After all, it Scholarships”. is not due to their fault that they had to apply for such scholarships. It was The motion was negatived, under very special circumstances, circumstances for which the leaders Mr. Chairman: There is no other of the ruling party were responsible, amendment. So I put the main clause. and so, taking everything into con sideration, we urge upon the Govern The question is: ment to write off this amount, and not to adjust it against the claims com* “That clause 5 stand part of the pensation to which the guardian of Bill”. such student may be entitled. The motion was adopted. Shri A. P. Jain: This covers several points. One is the amount which has Clause 5 was added to the Bill been paid as maintenance allowance. So far as that is concerned, we have Mr. Chairman: There is one new not been recovering it, and we do not clause 5A by Sardar Lai Singh, but propose to recover it. he is absent. So, I go to clause 6. There is no amendment to clause 6. Then comes the question of scholar So, I put it to the House. ships by which I believe the hon. Member means educational loans. The question is: Now, so far as the educational loans given to students who had no claims “That clause 6 stand part of the or whose guardians had no claims are Bill.” concerned, we have written them off, but so far as educational loans given The motion was adopted. to students who had a claim or whose guardians had a claim are concerned, Clause 6 was added to the Bill I am afraid I cannot accept the position taken up by the hon. Member. Clause 7.— {Determination of the Shri N. B. Chowdhury: If it is a amount of Compensation), very small claim? Shrimati Sucheta Kripalani: I want to move my amendment No. 3. Shri A. P. Jain: Well, perhaps. I cannot accept that in this broad way, but I will be quite prepared to con ^ sider the cases where the amount ol ftf w t'TP the claim is small and the loan is big. But that will be by way of some ftjTT 3CTJT I t sort of relief given under section 11. t • * 2769 displaced Persons 22 SEPTEIVIBER 1954 (Compensation and 2770 Rehabilitation) Bill In Page 6, after line 12, add— 5ft ^ ^ i “JExpZanation.—When the claim of co-sharer of the joint family 3R^>T5ft>ff # jf’ ft »I^JT % has either been verified jointly or in the name of the Karta the JI? ^ 5ft ^ * f ^ amount of such compensation shall fw w ^ t^^rniit ^ ?R!5ft I be determined separately in res pect of each co-sharer of the sftr ^ 5$tv I ^PPT family in respect of urban II? f t s R ^ immovable property left in West Pakistan/^ ft) t ^T’T) ^r ^ 5fV strMV 5ft ^ ^ ^ ff 3T*r a n w i w ?5t^ ^PTOT ftr ■FTTsr 'j ^ 115 ^w^jNr»r 3ft^ 'JTt^, Tt *il< dSfT ^ % srrftr 3TT 'flti ^ ft) ^1h ^ *1^*1
I ^ ^ ^ f^JIT ^ ^ % Hnr ^ urar ^ wtr vt’Th t
ftpft iwr?! % ^ ^ ferr | i w «T5nT 5Tnr Ir ^tteit | t ^ ^ ^ few t Hirarft i »nft *r^ w ^ ^ ^ »)^i r'?'Hn
^ ^ g f tfr fftr ^TR ^ 1?^?^ ^ ^ ’ft ^ 3n#^t I
ftr
s»r M 1 p i ^ wtvr ^ vgx I
^'5rrf ^ nnpr «ft «ft W : «ft»»5ft f % T '3ft ffr ^ ^cpnf ftnrr tt i f w i p f t ^ ^ *rg;5r «Ft ^5rariir ?ft p ? ^ 5ft ^ »rr5^ # 5ft p ! 5 im I ®Pfff^ IT? «nTJTT gi#TT I f r p 5 «ftnf ^ 5ft % [s ft tTo # T ] ^ feiT t stsp I vm . fiT5RT t ^ qftarjT ^ ?o ^
>a*^ iFHT *f5nr Op it ^ ?ft ^ Vo nrn'<>t^j^f^m ^^Trf^ I qft TT^ ^ f^pn' tot- ^ftfrNst ^ ^ T?rifJT%*m*ra?nr PniTTH ^ ^ ^t I I w ^ ^JT^^^«TrT% Ivfffrp'Tt T f t ^ 5i ^ t’lr i cannot be accepted. Mr. Chairman: Shall I put it to the «ft 5[o «ito ^ ?ft JT5 vote of the House? ^ ^ ^ ^ <-^1 ^ I Shrimati Sucheta Kripalani: Yes.
«Claiifle S.— (Form and manner of pay- In page 8, line 4, after “ grant” ti^ mtnt of compensation) sert **ot compensation” .
Mr. Chairman; There is one amend Mr. Chairman: What about Shri ment in the name of Shri Nand Lai Cl^idwani’s amendment? Is he moving .Sharma. The hon. Member is absent. it? .So, I shall put the clause to the vote Sliri Gidwajii: Yes. •of the House. Pandit Tliakur Das Bhargava: Why The question is: do you want to move this, after the statement of the hon. Minister in re ‘That clause 8 stand part of the gard to these matters? Bill.” The motion was adopted. Shri Gidwani: There is one point which I would like to clarify. Clause 8 was added to the Bill. I beg to move: Clauses 9 and 10 were also added to the Bill. In page 8, line 6, add at the end: “and compensation to such dis Olause 11.— (Rehabilitation and other placed persons who migrated later grants to displaced persons) and could not file their claims for verification under the Displaced Mr. Chairman: There is an amend Persons (Claims) Act, 1960 ment in the name of Shri P. N. (XLIV of 1950) and to those dis Bajabhoj. Does the hon. Member placed persons, who had filed their want to move it? claims within the prescribed date but their claims had been lift qrTo TTgpm (?fmT5T— rejected ex parte and to such dis placed persons who had filed their Tfer?r 'TR claims after 31st December 1951, *F!T ferr and before 31st August 1952, but the delay in filing such claims has ^ I not been condoned.” Mr. Chairman: He may move his Mr. Ctiairman: Amendment moved: .amendment now. He can speak later. In page 8, line 6, add at the end: Shri P. N. Rajabhoj: I beg to move: ”and compensation to such dis In page 8, line 3, after “persons” placed persons who migrated later insert “ and particularly every dis and could not file their claims placed person belonging to the for verification under the Pti- :Scheduled Castes” . placed Persons (Claims) Act, 1950 (XLIV of 1950) and to those dis BIr. Chairman: Amendment moved: placed persons, who had IHed In page 8, line 3, after “ persons” in- their claims within the prescribed «crt “ and particularly every dis- 4ate but their claims had 3775 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2 7 7 ^ Rehabilitation) Bill
[M. Chairman.] rejected ex parte and to such dis TT ?TT?rT t rft 5 ^ placed persons who had filed their claims after 31st December 1961 ’* n ^ TT «f1J ?t, !I\T ^ and before 31st August 1952, but fim # % ^ ftn: ^fl^T HT*r ^ft the delay in filing such claims has not been condoned/’ I ^ ^ ^?t ^cT^T^T g f«fr ^ ^ ^ ^ t % >j5 # fpTo TRnrhr: ^ ^ TT1T ^ V it \ 11^ ^ ^ «re^ ^ imr ^ fw I ^ ^ ^ ^ I (.Interruptions) t >F?5TT f I spr ^ »fh: % i ^ Mr. Chalimaii: Order, order. No interruptions please. The time is very 5?®S short. WTT 5 ^ ^ % fVl^ ^ Pandit Thakur Das Bharfava: He is not relevant at all. What Is this I *RT ^ sprer " # tUT ^ ” It is all condemnation without any thing. He has not given any facts. % f I 5f?r % ^TR He is not supporting his amendment, % ^ $h¥f5T v x T | t I ^ but is speaking in a general way. ■5(1^ g ^»TT^ 3ft Mr. Chairman; Order, order. The time is very short. We have only 15 ^ f ^ ^ or 20 minutes left, and we have to go 5S[ *p^ I ^ ^ ^ir#r ^ fwfr, through all these amendments within V t ’ ^ F ^ T T T “d*! ^ f^i^i this time. Therefore, I hope the hon. Member Shri P. N. Rajabhoj will % aptf 5T^ I finish within two minutes. ^qf^: ^ aft ^0 0 J F ^ •ft «fto qwo Tiiwtar: 5 ifT Trmr^rffiRTl t^[gprrg% itft sri ’T# # 5fl% ^ I T5 vTi^jfi% (+tf«iT^ •q|Tm% f w t I ^ ^ fsp?s^ ?rr?TT I I 5 ^ ^r??TT ^trf^ I ^ ^ft’ff t ?5?ff «itq^ !jfr Tirfbrf | wtt ^f # ?iT^iTT % 'm ^ 5Tff I > ^ ^ ^ Ir VRpFiff ^ ^ t I ^ ?T35|r ^ ; '*l+n»1 >i?t ^ f% Ji? aft qnr ygf^PTvT Wrf^^ ’H*l<. 'd'l ^ M(j^ ^ ^ ^ ^ JtTT t % ^ trgf^nm’ ft^ft =^Tf|^ i w ^ ^ ^ ^ % f s R ^ « n ^ W f % ^ ^ fwrr i ^ ^ *WPT ftm mft «PT
S R P T P R T ^STT? I »jVt ^TRT ?ftT ^ >^Tf^ I ^!m "ftFfm 3ft ^ ^'' ^ ?t 5^nX ITT cfW ^«nX WTT ^ ^ »PTJT ^ I ^ ^ 5p^lw ^ T]?^^?wrffi5t UT*T ^ ^ ^THT 5t*TT I ®rtt Sfl^^T ^ 3 I T $ I Vrft I, frm«rftr f s r e ^ WCT ^ I ^ 4 ferr | ^ , «ft tfo ifto ^ ?niEft, ^7R qpTTTT I
qo T ^fr^nft ^ ^ Kripalani want me to put her amend t I * Irn m %^F?fT3rT*R^ ment? ^r<3pff ^ f%?r ^rc? ^ 'T T a R im 1 1 Shrimati Sucheta Kripalani: Not HHRT?R # srr «fT?: ^ % ^irsnff necessary. I do not press it. ^ ^ tR ^flm- «ft ni«c f 5n:^ % *WPT 5THR In page 8, line 6, add at the end—* ITT ^ frsn ff % TRT 'JP I? 5T^ “and compensation to such dis I *1^1 < ^ «TT TT! 5ft ^ ^ placed persons who migrated later and could not file their claims *injtr ^ % ?>T ^ ^fr^nff % fli^ lor verification under the Dis ^ ^ m 5 I ^ placed Persons (Claims) Act, fV 5 ^ ^ «flT ^[^Rf % ^ ^ 1950 (XLIV oi 1950) and to those displaced persons, who had filed ^ 5T^ f W , 3ft «SPrrt their claims within the prescribed date but their claims had been ^ fiiw t «n5^^JWTT^jw rejected ex parte and to such dis ^fkipff vt fim?rT ^ I ^ % placed persons who had filed their iriM ks^ >ft ^ ^ ^ rr# ^ ftm r claims after 31st December. 1951 and before 31st August, 1952 but I ^r<3nff ^ ^ »ppnT the delay in filing such claims has 31^ ^fr^pff spT ?TR«r not been condoned.” ^ ^ ^ ^ s>rst f%HT t H ^ ft^ % *ft % % t ’ • ^ ^ ^ ?»T^ 11 ^ «PT ^ 1T5 1 Pp s m n ff Shrl Nanadas (Ongole—Reserved^ 3ft ^ ^ JTT Sch. Castes): What is the total amount spent lor the Harijans out ot these ITT *m t ^ «nft two himdred crores?
Mr. Chalnnan: How can he give the figures?
•ft fjifo xlWlhl : ^ ^ ?Tfw M ^ ^ % Pjw< % ?n»i# «R ^j%»n aft # » r
#3iT w\t ^ fr ^ is •K #thaf ^ ?PRn | i v s ^ I 5|ft ^TTO # ^ % H’$9TT TTET ’Itf ^«IK
f s n r % ?1Nt , ?ft ??rra »p t ^ m ^ rr *nrf I *fk ^ ^ aitsr T»?nw t ^ 5Tl^ % 3rrr, wffr I I «n| *n w ^ I aft
^sni^ = ^ i R sAt ^ 5 ^ f*n 15ftr ?TTif ^ «I$ 1?!^ qr ^ ?Ft «PRT «R :ftfe?r 5n#^^arroT^| I
*1^ PT?r It «ftpTWRt: WT ?TTO^ I fr in# W ^ fCT ^ iR ifk 5PWTPT # fara# ^ ^ i f t i T P m n w ^ an% t ? fe n w k 5 n f t ^ Mr. Chairman: Does he press his amendment?
?cPft y^Rdl f ftf ^ Shri Gidwani: No, Sir. I beg to withdraw it. % in# % •FR’T zn SlRfr ^ ^ The amendment was, by leave. ^ |[ ^ withdrawn. «n7 ^ rft ^ 5fp# # ^ W 1 W Mr. Chairman: I shall now put the clause 11 to the vote of the House. iT^rT ^ ^ ft# ^r+H H*fl 3ni^ The question is: ^ % VK”r sTF^ # ^ 5n# % “That clause 11 stand part of the Bill/* Tn?>r ^w'K^% "7ra' ?r ^% # ^^w 'n€f IwfETTfCT The motion was adopted. »i# ^ ^ ^nfm «FT an# I aRT Clause 11 was added to the Bill. JrCt m ^r f s R ^ I I Clause 12.—(Poiyer to acquire evacuee property for rehabilitation of dis placed persons), q o ifto : ^nn ^ *n< ^wr Mr. Chairman: There is one amend- ftr«p^ *1^<7?^^*PspT^mT PT ^ JTft wfcar ?t *nn ^ Mr. Chairman; There is no other ■ fft ^g vvi^% 'W f^Pn R Fft vrtww amendment. :2jSl Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2 7 8 2 Rehabilitation) Bill Shrl Miilchand Dube (Farrukabad Mr. Chairman: I shall now put Distt.—North): I want to speak on clause 12. The question is: this clause. I am finding some diffl- 'That clause 12 stand part of •culty with regard to sub-clause ( 11) the Bill.^ o f clause 12 which reads thus: The motion was adopted. “On the publication of a noti fication under sub-section ( 1) the Clause 12 was added to the Bill. right, title and interest of any Mr. Chairman: The question is: evacuee in the evacuee property specified in the notification shall, *That clause 13 do stand part on and the beginning of the of the Bill»\ date on which the notification is so published, be extinguished and The motion was adopted. the evacuee property shall vest Clause 13 was added to the Bill. absolutely in the Central Govern ment firee from all encumbrances.” ShH !ttalchand Dube: I would like to say one word on this clause. 1 am referring to the words “free Shri A. P. Sinha (Muzaffarpur from encumbrances”. The question East): Vote is already taken. is if there is a mortgage in favour of a national on any evacuee property, Mr. Chairman: There is no amend how will that encumbrance be ment, and particularly there is no extinguished? The Evacuee Property time. There may be certain amend A ct has been in force from 1948 to ments later which certain Members 1954 only. The period for the may want to press. mortgage is 12 years. If it was a Shri Mulchand Dube: I am having jnortgage in favour of an evacuee, of -course the claim would be barred, some difficulty about understanding this clause. l 3ut if the mortgage is in favour of a national of India, I do not know how Mr. Chairman: But he has not put it will be free from all encumbrances. in any amendment. So what is the The clause seems to h ave been taken use of it now? from the Land Acquisition Act. Under Shri Mulchand Dube: There was a the Land Acquisition Act an enquiry certain reason for not moving an is made and all encumbrances are amendment. satisfied. In this case there is no pro vision about the satisfaction of any Mr. Chairman: If he insists, I shall encumbrances. have to allow him. Shri Mulchand Dube: Clause 13 Shri A. P. Jain: Sir, I tried to ex reads: plain this issue during the course of my previous speech. I am afraid that ‘There shall be paid to an the hon. Meniber did not follow it. evacuee compensation in respect The House is aware that about a of his property acquired under couple of years ago we passed an Act section 12 in accordance with such luiown as the Separation of Evacuee principles and in such manner as (Interests) Act in which there was a may be agreed upon between the provision for the separation of the Governments of India and evacuee and non-evacuee interest in Pakistan’\ •composite properties. Now, compensation has to be paid to the evacuee in respect of the pro Mr. Cludniian; So, by that Act it perty that has been acquired. If we is fully covered. are to wait till the Pakistan Govern ment agrees to the principles of com- Shri A. P. Jain: Yes Sir, it is fully t>ensation, I think the matter will ^ v e rW Tjy thAt Act. U ^ er end. I think the matter should 2783 j Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEM BER 1954 {Compensation and 2784 Rehabilitation) Bill [Shri Mulchand Dube] Mr. Chairman: He might not have not be left to the Government ol put in a note of dissent. But he might Pakistan’s decision. A time-limit have changed his mind after the dis should be fixed within which the cussion here. Pakistan Government should be able to say whether they agree with the Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I principles or they do not agree with have not even changed my mind. It the principles. is absolutely consistent with my Chairmanship of the Select Com Pandit Thakur Das Bhargrava: No mittee and my membership of the clarification is required. It is quite Select Committee. It is consistent for clear. the hon. Member also who is object ing to it to support it, and it is also Shri A. P. Jain: It is quite clear. consistent for the hon. Minister to We are not going to wait for Pakistan. support it. Clause 14/^ (Compensation pool) Shri A. P. Jain: May I say a word? Pandit Thakur Das Bharffava: I have got an amendment. anto ifto fiT«r; ^ Mr. Chairman: Are there any other amendments?
Shri M. L. Agrawal: There is an fw 3IHT t. ^ ^ amendment in my name. I do not ^ I 1 want to move it. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: My amendment is: srmr, In page 9, after line 6, add— ^ I, ^ ^ ‘‘Provided that such contribution TT «irT ^ fW RT ^ fflFIT by the Government shall in no case be less than the amount which taken along with the real value of the 185 crores (face Shri A. p. Jain: Obviously, if this value) appropriated for the pur amendment is passed, it will create a pose of payment of compensation charge on the Consolidated Fund of will make up at least fifty per India. cent of the verified claims of the Pandit Thakur Das Bliargava: I am refugees and the compensation due to the public trusts and public not going to press it. institutions left in Western Pakistan” . 9rrco wto >smi?rTf f r ^ # 3ft !fte firar I ^ ftnsT g w t I 3ft itTT t ^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^ *R g ^ ^ f e u vtr^iPT«Tr ^ ^ VTW 11 xfk *ift ^ t % ^ ^*n=y-
^ WK f ? Vt *1^ Mr. Chairman: Order, order. f v Dr. Bam Suhhag Singh (Shahabad ^ t I ’t' ^ "TT ftr M r t c South): That is a good point of order. Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2786 Rehabilitation) Bill % "mr ^ ^ *F^W % I »nft ^ ^ rHpHW< «R*Tfen‘^ , RlftPrlJ^R ^ ^^ j '3ti ^ f?TJTT 3n^ I ^TTT ^»Trd ^5T ^ ^ ftp f^HET ?K^ ^ '3'^*i ^TT'TT Clause 14 was added to> the Bill, f W Mr I ^ !!Tk fS! Mr. Chairman: What I propose to do is this. I shall give at least ten minutes for the third reading stage. *n # 'PTRTSr ^ ^ 5f^ %5TT So I want to dispose of all the amend ments and clauses by 2.10. ^ ' Pandit Thalcur Das BhargaTm: Nothing is left. *W *IT Trtr finishing at 2.15. -?RT<^ ^ I 3n?raT i % w ^ Mr. Chairman: The question is: ■ ^'Ti^ ^ T F T ^ f^ l I «TT^m^5%5R “That clause 15 stand part of ^ ^ spw =®rr^ t, ’Tftqi^ «fNRft ?n V ^ # f, ^f%5T ^ tlwf ^>T5fV ^ : “In page 9, after line 35, add— 3ft ^ ^ t IIT ^INt ^ «Pt !(o «)5|- 5TT ^ I “ (4) While appointing manag ing officers or managing corpora ^ FifhR I «ftr !TN ^ JTf tions, the Government shall specify the period within which ,1ft ^5TT^ *R felT ^ >Ttt^ the said officer or corporation ? P'Ji'i % of the managing officer or the fcrr 3rr r+-?r.' i, ^ w n r ? corporation/’ f , aTTT tt^ )fft^ w ^ ?r»ft 3r??ft ^ ^ mm 11 ftr?T!fr Twrrftfsrt jtt ^.-m m n ^ ^ fT>rf3f^sr ^ % 3T«OT f I ? ftr«'T ITT JTf ar^y- ^ T| JT^t^ ir % ^ ift !^Fn: «irT ^ ^ % ^T*i ^ ?rr ^ ^ ^ 5TT^ I %rZ^£ P w ^ wfPp Ji^ iif?r t •
^'3rrT»T ^flT JT? 5T I f% sm€f «ft qo«fto ^ * r : gft f ® it r t ^ ^r 3T?^t ft^Ttsr ^ ^Tff^ 5 %?TT ^ t *?■ ^ ?»?*T?r cfV I VC f I THi- 5T?^ ^ I Jpft’ ^ t < imr 4 IT? wwcit f fvfififtST# «T ^ # s(5?r Ir ftr IT? ’T^ i , w tftr
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A ^ r r ^ ^ % z r v f Mr. Chairman: The question is: ^T7 ppTT ft: ^ ^<7 % 3r?!r?: ^3’ttI' ‘'That clause 16 stand part of a m r srm ^ ^.t 3#?: the Bill.’’ fSRW ift aTTT v m t ^ ^<-«llT!n i amr Shrlmati Sacheta Kripalani: Sir, I «r? ^ w w TT *n^ ^5P^ I'w c 's n have a small amendment to this 2789 displaced Persons 22 1854 {Compensation and 2790'> Rehabilitation) Bill clause—amendment No. 8—about the clauses 35, 39A and 40. Does he want addition of the words “non-officials*’ to move them? after the word ‘‘Board” . From tha report of the Select Committee it is Shri D. C. Sliarma: Sir, in view of quite obvious that it is intended that the assurance given to me by the the Board should be non-officiaL hon. Minister yesterday mornings I Therefore, I thought this was left over withdraw my amendments. by mistake in drafting and so, I would request the hon. Minister to accept it. Mr. Cliairman: The question is: “That clauses 32 to 40 stand Mr. Chairman: There is another part of the Bill.’’ amendment to this clause by Shri D. C. Sharma. The motion was adopted. Shri D. G. Sliarma: In view of the Clauses 32 to 40 were added to th e' assurance given by the hon. Minister Bill. to me, I do not want to move my Mr. Cliairman: The question is: amendment. “That the Schedule, Clause 1. ?TP <1^- Long Title and the Enacting For TfZ ^ I mula stand part of the Bill.” The motion v)as adopted. ^ "TP^ itran: ^ I'I The Schedule, Clause 1, the Enacting ■ 'mula and the Title were added 3ft ^ to the Bill fln?T ^IT *n<5 JW T ilH mfFftRvT ^ “That the Bill be passed”. jftSTT ?TSnTf iD«Hr15 ^ TT f I W m ^ JTf fira' TFT 3IT ^ I ^ % raniT 3n^ i w w amendments by Shri D. C. Sharma to ^rPtrf% ytffgW HI -3791 Displaced Person* 22 SEPTEMBER 1054 (Compensation and 2792 Rehabilitation) Bill
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[Shn M. H. Rabman (Moradabad approach and feel that responsible Distt.-Central): Mr. Chailrman, I am Members of this House should not glad that we are performing a great adopt this attitude...... ] duty to-day by passing this Bill as it has emerged from the Joint Select O^mmittee. I can say, as a member invPBTift of the Joint Select Committee, that ^ rir TT I all the points at issue were settled unanimously and amicably. We all ^ ^ ^ concede and feel, as stated just now by Shri Achikit Ram, that whatever has been accomplished so far is too insufficient and that more should have v i : been done during this period. concede that still greater relief ahpuldf be provided to our refugee brethren and that all possible measures should be adopited to that end. Various sug gestions have been put forward with a view to the execution of this task and more are expected to be made in due course. But there is one matter which [Shri M. H. Rahman: You said that has caused me a great deal of pain. leniency was being shown to Muslims From the trend of the speeches made and another sneaker said that It had here yesterd!ay, one had the feeling as a prejudicial effect on the compensa if the problem of our refugee brethren tion pool.] could be tackled only ib a spirit of hostility to the Mus-lims living In Sliriiiiati Sucheta KHpalani: Yon India. Time and again the tenor of have not understsood niy speech. I the speeches led inexorably to the would like you to withdraw your re same conclusion. We should remem marks. ber that a speech delivered in this House does not remain confined only within the Parliament House, but has considerable repercussions on the public outside. We have a feeling of sympathy for our refugee brethren and we have helped hundreds of them, [Shri M. H. Rahman: I cannot with Hindus and Sikhs, individually. We draw them.] have been heloing them generally and this is only right and proper. I think Sardar A. S. Saigal: On a point of i*t would be better if responsible peo order, who is in possession of the ple in the House refrain from making House? such speeches as might give the im pression that the Muslims are a sepa rate entity. It is not proper, when Mr. Chairman: Maulana Hifzur ever some problem of the refugees or Rahman (Interruption). Now the some such thing crops up, to bring time is over. i^ the Indian Muslims, so as to give the poor refugees the impression that it is on account of these Muslims that their cause has suffered. The speeches -u > * that have been made by Shri Tandon jl and Sucheta ji give this indication. [Shri M. H. Rahman: I want one I strongly protest against this kind of minute more.] 2 7 9 9 Displaced Persons 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Compensation and 2800 Rehabilitation) Bill Dr. Ram Subhag Sinffh (Shahabad South): I would like that the speech of Mrs. Sucheta Kripalani should be Ut* ^ read out here, I mean the portion of it to which Maulana Hitfzur Rahman js*- ^ refers, so that the House may be enlightened. H'rt ») lS «
Aiyio L. ^ Mr. Chairman: The scheduled time is over. - A
[Shri M . H. Bahaian: 1 must subooj| that whereas one person is beinx al lowed the opportunity of bavins her say, 1 am not being allowed even two minutes to express my viiews. I am asked not to speak as I am barred by [Shri M. H. Rahman: If such is the the rules and yet another person wha Chair’s wish I resume my seat.] is not even supposed to have the right to speak is going on. 1 cannot under Shrimati Sucheta Kripalani: I would stand this?l like to make my position clear. A very serious charge has been levelled Mr. Chairman: I request both the acainst mp hv hnn Member, I Members to be patient and not to have been serving? in public LMe for quarrel in this way in the House. the last twenty years. (Interruption) After all, whatever has been said is and I am absolutely justified in reply on record and there are other forums ing to the hon. Member’s false charge, to settle this. absolutely uncalled for charge, ajfainst me, I have been serving in public life for over twenty years. You Shrimati Sucheta Kripalani: Please should go to Dr. Zakir Hussain to And scrutinise the record. out what I have done ^^r the Muslims in Delhi. When the riots were going Shri J. K. Bhonsle: I rise to thank on itn Delhi. I was moving about in the hon. Members of this House for the Muslim localities and helping? the their constructive approach and for Muslims. What did I say yesterday? the way in which the business of I said that I certainly do not like the the House has been conducted. I Government’s policy of conceding to hope this Bill, when passed, will Pakistan, and if the hon. Member is bring in prosperity to thousands of hurt over that remark of mine, he is displaced persons who have been welcome to feel hurt. waiting for this opportunity to come along their way.
Mr. Ctiairman: The question is:
iS (f 4^ “Tliat the Bill be passed.”
The motion was adopted.
ur* 28o i Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1964 (Third Amendment) Bill 2S02
CONSTITUTION (THIRD enumerated in article 369, quite a AMENDMENT) BILL number of them, have necessarily been absorbed by the Centre by Mr. Chairman: The next item of virtue of a declaration under item 52 business is for the hon. Commerce of List I of Schedule VII, and some and Industry Minister to move that of the items mentioned in the amend the Constitution (Third Amendment) ment to item 33 would also consti Bill be taken into consideration. tute indirectly, or perhaps directly, something which is necessary for ^ .T h e Minister of Commerce and sustaining the industries which have Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari); been declared to be of national I beg to move that the Bill further importance, and which leaves only a to amend the Constitution of India, very large residue or lay-off, namely, as reported by the Joint Select Com foodstuffs. ^ I think hon. Members mittee, be taken into consideration, y here who participated in the debate also stressed the need for some kind of an overall regulation by the ly task in commending this Centre in regard to foodstuffs, having motion to the House has been con in view the fact that we have several siderably simplified by the fact thatj* constituent units in the Union which the Select Committee hardly made are deflcits so far as foodstuffs are any changes in the Bill. The only concerned/^ I cannot see how the change made was in clause 2 under question of providing a regulatory entry 33, sub-clause (a) and it is a measure, should that be necessary in verbal change which is indicated by order to safeguard the interests of the the words underlined “where the weaker units in the Union in respect control of such industry'’. Hon. of foodstuffs, would be a serious en Members will recognise this change, croachment upon the powers and purely verbal, and it does not alter rights of the constituent units as a the meaning of the particular sub whole. clause. CX think it would not be giving the measure of respect that I There has been either a slight— should give to hon. Members who shall I say—misapprehension or a have appended a minute of dissent misreading of, the nature of con to this Report of the Joint Committee current powers, indicated in the if I do not give some attention to Minute of Dissent, {j, would like later what they have said^The hon. Mem on, if I may, to deal with this parti bers who have submitted a minute of cular aspect of the position of con dissent, many of them are prominent current powers in a FederatioiOThe lawyers, experienced in public life, ^ existence of concurrent powers in a and whatever they have said has to Federation has been recognised after be given some attention. But un the Federal Constitution has been fortunately I do not find that any framed, in the American Consti new point has been raised in the tution. And it is now admitted by all minute of dissent appended to the experts that the mere existence of Report of the Select Committee be concurrent powers is not a fact which yond what was mentioned on the detracts from the quantum of power floor of the House. The minute of that is conferred on the two parts of dissent proceeds with a generalisation a Federation, namely, the Union and that the amendment, if passed, will the units. constitute a serious encroachmept on the rights and powers of the con ^ - One phrase has been used here tuent units of the Indian Republicil^I articularly which looks very thought that the considerable amount L attractive but which is extremely of pains through which I went on dangerous because of its connotation the day when I moved the motion for and, therefore, misleading. The reference to Select Committee would phrase that has been used occurs have shown that J the powers here: iS o 3 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2804
[Shri T. T. Krishnamachari] The situation which confronted the [ ‘‘Under article 369 if Parlia Constituent Assembly when framing ment fully exercises its authority, the Constitution was not basically as it has already substantially different from what it is now. I beg done, the doctrine of ‘occupied to join issue with the hon. Members field* will preclude the States from who have written the minute of dis exercising their legislative powers sent and have envisaged a situation in respect of these matters.” ^ at that time which is not basically different from what it is today. I The doctrine of ‘occupied field’ in thought I had made myself clear relation to concurrent powers, the when I spoke initially that so far as extent of 'occupation* has to be read the devising of article 369 was con with a lot of caution. The phrase cerned, it was more or less an ex looks very attractive and might hit tension of the powers that were the headlines.QSome paper mi^ht say conferred on the Central Government that so say “the assumption of such States regulations in the Centre, con wide powers by the Centre’ —I am flicting oftentimes^ which led to de- afraid my bon. friends have been cisior^s which were difficult. The idea ' allowing their imagination to carry was to find out what were the regu* them away—'Hhe assumption of such lations in the States, what were the wide powers by the Centre would regulations in the Centre, to examine make local and regional enterprise the whole thing and make a report. which is so essential for an even de velopment of industries in different f Shri Asoka Mehta: It was not States, to be paralysed by a con ^deemed necessary to find out the centration of power at the Centre,” States* point of view in coming to a I cannot understand. The industries conclusion. covered are the industries which are already under the Union control, Shri T. X/ Krishnamachari: My namely, the jute industry, the cotton in. friend would please forgive me industry, the vanaspati industry, the Cif I ask him to read the report. The sugar industry. And therefore the State Governments* point of view area that is left to the States in res was very well represented, because pect of the industries covered is the State Governments were con practically nothing. But, to say that sulted. The Planning Commission was this amendment is going to ruin the consulted. Interested parties were industrial initiative of the States, is, consulted. It does not necessarily I think, pitching the imagination mean that in an enquiry of this rather high. nature, the mere fact that the State Governments* representative is there A word has been said about the is a matter which lends weight to the Commodity Controls Committee. I point of view. In fact, we have so must tell hon. Members that, after many States and if we had called 27 ^11, when you proceed to recommend representatives, the Committee would to an august body like Parliament a have been unwieldy. The position change in the Constitution, an en- was, the States’ point of view was •^uiry has to precede it. I never taken into account. I am not quot ^^claimed that the Commodity Controls ing the Commodity Controls Com Committee was composed of high- mittee’s report as the law of the powered people. But, I must submit Medes and Persians. I am merely that it was composed of people who submitting to the powerful wisdom knew, who have no political bias. of hon. Members of the House to make a decision. I said that these are the facts prepared by the Commodity f Shri Asoka Mehta (Bhandara): Controls Committee for your con I,Why was there no representative from sideration. J I think my hon. friends the State Governments?'^ who submitted this minute of dissent were wrong. If they wanted a stick to beat the Government with, they Shri T, T. Krishnamachari: The are at liberty to use anything. I do Commodity Controls Committee was not complain. After all, once I come not intended to provide a basis for forward with a Bill of this nature, my the amendment of the Constitution. devoted head is always available for ^ It was intended...... (laughter hy anybody to use any club. I do not " Shri Asoka Mehta). There is no point think it is at all necessary to drag in laughing. The truth has got to be in this Commodity Controls Com told even if it evokes laughter in my mittee’s report which was really hon. friend. He has a debating factual. The factu that were elicited advantage over me; I do not mind it. by the menibet# of the Committee I must admit the truthJ The truth were to be placea before the House, was that it was intehdedior the pur You may accept them, you may rew pose of streamlining controls. QThere ject them, you may say, the Com were various regulations in the mittee was not high-powered, you 2807 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 iThird Amendment) Bill 2808^
[Shri T. T. Krishnamachari] may say that these people were igno that they have given us. I would like ramuses. You may say that reliance to underscore my agreement with the was placed on that report. Some seven weighty arguments, that the reliance has to be placed. If I place minute of dissent has placed before reliance on the printed minute of the us and I would like to put forward seven hon. Members who have sub a few additional or supplementary mitted this dissenting report, I have arguments. I would like to point out got to place some reliance on the that all Parties other than the Con facts submitted by the Committee. gress Party are today opposed to this ^ Anyway, that is merely drawing a red amendment. herring. I humbly suggest to the House not to take serious account of Pandit K. C. Sharma (Meerut the criticisms levelled against the Distt.—South): What is their total Commodity Controls Committee's re number? port. I would submit, even at the risk of repeating, patting myself on Shri Gadgil (Poona Central): What my back, that the factual findings of is the strength of the argument? the Commodity Controls Committee are highly valuable. Shri Asoka Mehta: As far as the Congress Party is concerned, it is \ Pandit Thakur Das B liarfaya itself divided. The division of the ' (Gurgaon): They have not been criti Congress Party is clear from the fact cised here. It is only stated that the that a large number of States or States' representative was not there. Governments which are in the hands The arguments advanced by us and of the Congress Party are opposed to them have not been controverted. this amendment. As regards the atti tude of the States, what do we find? ] Shri T. T. Kriiihnamachari: That is The biggest province in India, the ^ o r my hon. friend when he speaks. U.P., has expressed no opinion. It is I shall not exhaust the lines on which not listed ’lere. Four States are the various speeches should proceed. opposed: Assam, Bihar, Bombay and In all conscience, here, the bones that Travancore-Cochin. No replies have we have to share amongst 400 Mem been received from Madhya Pradesh, bers is a small one, and I think it is Mysore and Madras. Andhra has it rather difficult to get our teeth at under consideration. Agreement has it—the Bill is an innocuous one and been expressed by Madhya Bharat, a tame measure—and one need not Orissa, P.E.P.S.U., Saurashtra and work oneself up to a pitch of West Bengal. These States put to enthusiasm which is not merely un gether do not have a population of real but which is completely illusory. even one-fourth of the total popular I commend the Bill. tion of this country. Some of them are small; some of them, I may be Shri K. K. Basa (Diamond Har- permitted to say, are mostly client Dour): It is not innocuous. States of the (Central Government. May I invite the attention of the hon. Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: Minister who moved this amendment j sometime back, that in the course of ‘*That the Bill further to amend his observations, he had said: ihe Constitution of India, as re ported by the Joint Committee, “To Slim up the reactions of be t^ e n into consideration.” the States...... ”
Shri Asoka Mehta: I would like to Shri A. M. Thomas: May I point out congratulate the seven Members of to the hon. Member that the Travan- the Joint Select Committee for the core-Cochin Government on a pre brilliant and lucid minute of dissent vious occasion had accepted the 28 o9 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 28IO
recommendations of the Commodity was concerned. May I invite the Controls Committee that the Centre attention of the Government to the may have the powers ot control over . growth of production of the raw jute essential commodities? in this country, between 1947-48 and« 1952-53 on the one hand and the in Shri Asoka Mehta: May I also point crease in the production of raw out that the present Travancore- cotton, on the other during the same Cochin Government which is the only years? What do we find? In jute Government which is not controlled which was not controlled from the by the Congress Party has said: top in the sense in which the hon. mover of the Bill wants to control it “Regretted inability to agree to today, the increase was to the extent the proposals...... of 300 per cent, while cotton pro duction that was completely controlled An hon. Member: You have the from the top increased only 150 per controlling interest. (Interruption,) cent. Let it not be said that without control it is not possible to bring Shri Asoka Mehta: '‘Regretted in about development and expansion. It ability to agree to the proposals adding has been argued that in all these as the State Government would commodities that are listed in this certainly be expected to undertake amendment, there is the danger either any legislation to implement the of over-all ot lone shortages. If there policy of the Centre in the general is over-all shortage, that is a special interest, a transfer of the power to situation for which the necessary the Centre was not necessary.” provisions have been made in the Constitution. If there is a lone You said that Mysore had shown shortage in any particular commodity,, agreement, ^ e Travancore-Cochin this very Commodity Controls Com Government had also shown agree mittee has pointed out what n e^ s to ment, We find that Mysore has so be done. On pages 58-59, the Com far expressed no opinion on this mittee has pointed out: amendment. Travancore-Cochin has definitely opposed the amendment. “It would, therefore, be advan tageous to transform gradually May I also point out that this the present ‘food administration* Constitution was drafted imder serious into a ‘buffer stock administra economic vicissitudes? The whole tion^ wherever feasible so that in sale priice index had jumped from the course of time the latter may 302 to 390. There was a net draw on become a very useful instrument our foreign exchange to the extent of for stabilising the price level in the Rs. 227 crores. While the Consti country protecting both the con tution was being drafted, the founding sumer and the producer against fathers had before them the undue fluctuations in prices.** experience of control, de-control and re-control. In the light of these What is stated, what is suggested is experiences, the founding fathers the creation of a buffer stock thought it proper to frame a Consti administration, and I do not under tution as it has been framed, pro stand why in creating a buffer stock viding only transitional and tempo administration, these powers need be rary powers. They are sought to be taken away from the States. made permanent today. It has been argued that unless these powers are taken, it will not be possible for us The authors of the minutes of dis to look after the organisation of prtJ- sent have invited our attention to the duction and growth of raw cotton progressive pulverisation of States*^ and the rest of it. What do we find? power, and I believe they have done I believe that the Government had a signal service by drawing our no such powers so far as raw jute attention to it. Control of these 3 8 X1 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 {Third Amendment) Bill 2912
[Shri Asoka Mehta] matters will not be possible unless this steep slope to grow the and until it is extended also to con things that will keep his family trol over crop planning and cultiva alive, and so he cuts the trees tion. May I invite the attention of down and plants his corn, and the the hon. Mover to the report of the soil is washed off in a few years, Uttar Pradesh Controls Inquiry Com and the nation has been robbed mittee. In page 4 as an illustration of just that much of its capital the case of peas is mentioned. They assets...... Now one way of going fiay: ^ about it is to say, “We will pass a law that any farmer who cuts “The result is that the area down the trees and cultivates a under cultivation of peas has been slope steeper than a certain grade progressively increasing during is incapable of farming. He is the last five years and in 1950-51 injuring the community and the it was 21,00,000 acres as compared nation, and by this law we will to 16,00,000 acres five years ago. take his land away from him and Pulses are also freely exported to turn it back into forest or other States. The overall avail meadow,” That is one w ay ___ ability of foodgrains is consider Then there is the other method of ably reduced so far as the giving the farmer a chance to consumer in the U.P. is con make a choice: recognizing that cerned. The export last year of the farmer does not cut down peas exceeded 1,00,000 tons.” those trees because he enjoys cutting down trees or because he Therefore, Sir, once you begin to likes to see the soil washed off /control the production of foodgrains, and destroyed but because he has you will inevitably have to control a problem of feeding his family crop planning and there will be thus and making a living. Give him an expanding encroachment on the a choice—a free choice—^by rights of the States. There will be making it possible for him to use a progressive erosion of the State his land in such a way that he powers. Not only is it a question of will not only be enabled to progressive erosion of State powers, support his family but at the but a much more vital issue is in same time protect that soil volved in this. There is the danger, against depredation. This is only there is the possibility of side one illustration of many of this stepping of democratic processes. The conviction I have that a man must Government must learn and teach the be given a free choice rather than art of democratic adjustments. compelling his choice or having supermen make the choice for May I, in this connection, invite him.” your attention to a memorable state ment by an outstanding authority on democratisation of administration. I We, Sir, find here that supermen refer to Mr. David Lilienthal. want to make the choice not only as far individuals are concerned^ but as He says: far as States are concerned. Why can we not give opportunity to the “This matter of making a choice States? Why can we not bring the available, which is the duty of representatives of the States together leadership, seems to me critically round a table and see that an agreed important. There are two ways formula is hammered out, as the of going about many of these Government of Travancore-Cochin matters. There, for example, is a has suggested? You must give them steep slope which has been de an opportunity. You must try to nuded of trees by the farmer. He carry conviction to them. You must has to make a living. He needs try to carry the representatives of aSi3 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2814
the States with you. You may be there hais been differences of opinion able, in the plenitude of your power, recently. How are you going to re to brush aside the States. You may solve them? Inside a Ministry, in occupy a certain terri^Jry of power side a department, there might be because of the special rights that you acute differences of opinion. How are going to get once this amend are they to be resolved? I would ment is accepted, but what will be not, I do not propose to refer to any the result? Unless and until you can incident or any experience in our ^satisfy the people of the States con country, but may I cite as an ex cerned that justice is being done to ample the experience from a foreign them, will you be able to carry country. It is pointed out: through whatever Reforms or what ever administrative changes you want ‘There aros^ consequently a to carry through. Can you afford to conflict between two agricultural bypass the people? After all* if you groups, and indeed between two think that the States are being re groups within the U.S. Depart calcitrant, please remember that the ment of Agriculture. To be speci recalcitrance of the States will fic, this conflict between the always be reflected in the recalcitrance Extension Service, the Agri of the people, and you cannot brush cultural Adjustments Administra aside the recalcitrance of the people. tion and the Farm Bureau on the You must learn, you must educate one side, and the Farm Security your people to discover ways and Administration and the farmers means of adjustment. That is the on the other.’* very essence, that is the very art of democracy. I think this kind of conflicts are in evitable. How are they to be May I, in this connection point out resolved? By taking over more that we may ignore the moral powers, by pushing aside the people dimension of the grass roots approach with whom adjustments are to be only at our peril? It is an obligation sought, or by learning to sit with in connection with resources develop them, by making them realise ment that the local governmental wherever the larger issues of the institutions be strengthened rather country are involved? They must than weakened, that they be supple learn to arrive at agreements and mented rather than supplanted. I adjustments. That is the approach, would like to emphasize that the re the grass roots approach to demo sources of a region include its insti cracy. If that approach is given up, tutions, particularly its governmental the result will be that the arteries of agencieai. It has been argued that adjustments will harden, and all after all the concurrent powers are short-cut adjustments will mean that sought only as contingent powers. power will get increasingly con That is not the intention of the hon. centrated into the hands of the few Mitnlster. He wants to use these people at the top. powers. Last time while moving this amendment, he made it very clear that he wants to use these powers. May I end my observations by These are not merely contingent quoting the wise words of one of the powers. They may be called con foremost seers of democracy? I re current powers, but they are going fer to the famous French writer. De to be used and used in the near Tocqueville: future. You may try to bypass, you may try to side-step democratic forces “Although a centralised adminis in this respect, but you will not be tration call bring together at a able to run away from them. There given moment, or a given point, will be differences of opinion between all the disposable resources of Ministries themselves. As we know, a people, it injures the renewel 28x5 Constituti07i 22 SEPTEMBER 19S4 (Third Amendment) Bill 28x6
[Shri Asoka Mehta] of those resources. It may en the character of the States which arc sure a victory in the hour of in support of this measure, which strife, but it gradually relaxes have the matter still under considera the sinews of strength. It may tion, and which are categorically op help admirably the transient posed to this measure, we shall find greatness of a man, but not the that the hon. Minister's claim that the durable prosperity of a nation.” Slates in general are inclined to ac cept this amendment does not ho:d May I therefore appeal to the Mover any water. of the Amendment not to get interest ed, not to get intoxicated by the I thought of the greatness of a man, We have to 3udge whether in the whoever the man^ may be, but to present context of things, so soon think in terms of the durable pros after the Constitution has oeen enact perity of the nation? By this amend ed, we should try to amend certiin ment you are going to weaken the provisions which the Constitution- sinews of strength of our nation. I makers have after due deliberatiori. hope and trust that will not be done. deliberately put in the Constitution. For instance, there is article 369, whicft contains certain provisions in respect Sliri K. K. Basu: This ConstituUon of certain commodities, which fall, Amendjnent Bill which has been in according to normal understanding^ troduced by the Commerce Minister and normal connotation, under the iias been passed off as a very in purview of the activities of States. In nocuous piece of legislation. It haj respect of these commodities, powers bccome more or less the habit with of control have been given to the the Ministers that whenever any re- Centre under article 369, only for actipiiary legislation is brought for specific period of five years. Even at ward, it is always tried to be pushed that point of time, when, as my learn in as an innocuous piece of legislation. ed friend who spoke before me has We will have to Judge from the aspect pointed out, the situation in the coun of our constitutional democracy, what try was abnormal, immediately after ever there may be in our country, the the war, and when after the partition, implications of this amendment. The there was trouble in a large part of non. Minister tried to ridicule to some our territory, and when the food situa extent the note of dissent that has tion was very bad, and the position been submitted to the report of the was bad regarding many other agri Joint Committee, by practically all cultural commodities also, even ir\ the Members of the Opposition that those circumstances, the Constitution- there were in that Committee. He has makers, who practically belonged now come forward with this amending the party in power today, deliberately Bill, saying that it is absolutely nccei?- and after long discussion put this .«;ary in the interests of the country. limitation of five years. If they had We have got to judge to what extent thought that in the interests of the that test is satisfied. In justification nation, these powers might be kept in of his claim, the hon. Minister has also the Centre permanently, they would referred to the report of the Commo have put in a provision to that effect dity Controls Committee, about which then and there, and these powers my hon, friend Shri Asoka Mehta has would have been given to the Centre spoken at length. When the motion for as long a time as they might have for reference of this Bill to a Joint chosen. But that has not been done. Committee was being discussed here, the hon. Minister has also tried to spy that there is Bisection of the The other day, one hon. Member Spates, which has supported this pro- was trying to suggest that no planning orsftion Jn regard to the amendmen* was there at that time. If you see the of the Constitution. But if we ana baaAc principle behind the Constitu lyse, as Shri Asoka Mehta has done. tion, if you read the Fundamental 2Si7 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER lyt>4 (Third Amendment) Bill 2818
Rights Chapter, or the Chaoter on after the coming into torce of the con- Directive Principles, you will find that sii'.ution? In my opinion, the hon. it is clear that our Constitution Minister has not made out any case jnakers had clearly in mind the idea by which he can justify this action of that we should not have laizzez faire his. in our country, but that there should Toe some sort of control or some sort •of limitation on private rUhts. There We know that under article 249 of fore, the Oonstitution-imakers could the Constitution it is provided that in have easily emboded a provision in the interests of the nation, for a period the Constitution, when it was drafted, Of one year, the powers which normal I 0 the effect that these powers will be ly fall within the purview of the State •with the Centre for all time to come. may be given over to the Centre, pro But they have deliberately chosen to vided’ that at the end of that one jgive this power only for a limited year, if the problem still continues, period of five years, because they these powers may be continued in thought that within a period of five the Centre, if a resolution to that effect years, the situation will come to nor is passed by the Rajya Sabha. Even mal. We have been told by our Food here, a distinction is sought to be made Minister that, the food situation has between the Lok Sabha and the Rajya improved. In some States, in some Sabha, and the provision has been places, it might have improved to put in a peculiarly limited way. Only some extent. Agadn, so far as the if the Rajya Sabha passes a resolution cotton situation is concerned, it was to that effect, can these powers be stated in regard to the limited stocks exercised by the Centre. In the Con that we had in a particular area, that stitution. the Rajya Sabha is deemed there was nothing to worry about. to be representative of the States and Then, 1 come to jute. You know that they should pass a resolution that in I come from a State which is practi- the interests of the nation, these ^‘ally the largest producer of jute, and powers should be allowed to be there this problem is very acute. But exercised by the Centre, and then only evert then, I would ask what ju&Ufioa- the Centre can have these powers. The lion is there for Government to amend Constitution-makers have deliberately the Constitution in this manner. said that this Resolution should not IVhen Giovemment themselves say that be passed by the Lok Sabha, but that there has been improvement in the it should be left to the Rajya Sabha, food situation, and there is nothing to which is constituted of the representa he worried about so far as the cotton tives of the States. I would urge upon situation is concerned, what justifica the House to understand this basic tion is there for Government to try distinction which the Constitution- to have this power for all time? If makers had kept in view, because you say, well, in the States also, we they thought that it was just possible have our own Governments, instead of that in the Lok Sabha, two or three the States having it, we are going to States may combine and have a liave the power, why should you feel majority by which" they can pass this •worried, after all, y.)u have your own resolution. But the constitution of X^ongress Governments in different the Rajya Sabha is such that the domi forms, or dift’erent colours in different nation of a particular State can be , parts of the country, if you say like flouted, because of i's peculiar compo that, I would say that it is a vague sition. Only if the Rajya Sabha passes principle, because we have adopted a a resolution, can certain rights of the Constitution after much deliberation, States be abrogated in favour of the and distributed the legislative and Centre, in the interests of the nation. c^xecutive powers between the States Then and then alone is the Centre and the Centre in a partjf.*ular manner. competent to oass a legislation. This Why do you want to amend it so soon distinction was deliberaieiy made by 2 8 i 9 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 282^
[Shri K. K. Basu] the Constitution-makers. Otherwise Constitution with powers in the Cen they could have very well said that tre, and let the States’ powers be the Lok Sabha could pass such areso- turned into municipal powers. I Jution, and under entry 52 in List I, would submit that when we are ma or entry 33 in List III Parliament may king an attempt to grow a particular by a resoluMni> say that in the kind of democracy in our country, it. interests of the nation, the Centre shduld be the effort of every Member, should pass a legislation, so far a irrespective of party affiliation, to see particular industry is concerned. But that we do not allow such precedents that they have not done. Under arti whereby it may be said in the future cle 249, they have made a deliberate that we have made an attempt to do distinction and restricted the power away with the basic principles whicb to pass a resohition only 10 ihe Rajya underline the framework of our Cons- Sabha. We must understand clearly titintion. the principles which actuated the Some hon. Members said that Constitution-makers to make this dis they were not convinced of the neces tinction. The principles are that they sity of this legislation, and also o f wanted to protect the rights of the the bona fldes of Government to some States. extent. I am also not convinced with the bona fldea of Government Powers there were in the hands of Govern I fully agree, as some hon. Member ment under a certain article, and they said, that our Constitution is a unita could have done many things. But ry Constitution, and therefore, the what did they do? Two years back, residuary powers should be vested in when Dr. P. S. Deshmukh was not ini the Centre. That may be so. Even the Government but was an ordinary- so, because of the character of our Member, there were questions put national movement, and because of regarding the floor and ceiling prices the lines along which our national of cotton. That was a time when movement has developed, we tried to Government could have given some give certain powers to the Centre and protection to the cotton growers. But certain powers to the States, and all did they come forward to give protec along, it has been the attempt of the tion? Did Government come f o r w a r d Constitution-makers to guard and pro then saying that these powers should tect the interests of the States, in be taken in the interests of the people, whatever sphere it might be. That or in the interests of the nation? Did being so, I cannot understand how so Government come forward to save soon after the passing of this Consti them at that time? tution, Government can come for ward with a legislation which practi Again, only the other day, there was a discussion about the crisis in cally does away with the powers of the State, If they want to do so, let the mica industry. Government had. power under item 52 in List I. them come forward, and do away with the whole Constitution as it But did they to save the ordinary workers, the ordinary peoole whose stands; let us have one unitary Cons titution with powers in the Centre, fate was also linked up with the- fate of the mica-industry. Gov and transfer all the States* powers ernment did not do anything at that into municipal powers. Let them do time, and you know very well what it by all means. Let the hon. Minis happened in that regard. ter be frank and honest enough to come forward and say, we have had Again, in regard to jute, what is four or five years of experience of the position? If the Constitution is this Cotistitution, we have experienced amended, will Government care icy a lot of difficulties, we should not have come forward to save the ordmary a federal Constitution as we have workers, and the growers of JuteT today, but we must have a unitary Have they as yet done something to 3821 ConstifjLtion 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2822
save the jute growers who are suffer Ministers place before us. They say, ing in the present context? The hon. we db this in the interests of the Minister himself knows that while common man. My hon. friend haf jute is sold in the Calcutta market at said that fertilisers have not been the rate of Rs. 26 or so the growers supplied. It has been boasted that get only Rs. 14 or 15. So, here also, we have been able to ^Ive the rice you know what the fate of the jute problem in the country. The Central growers is. Are Government willing Government has, under the existing and* prepared to come forward, whe orders, worked and behaved in a ther power is there or not. to give fashion which does not justify it to protiection to these (people .who are be entrusted with the power to* BufferiiigT T h ^ vHW only want to abrogate the power vested in the get the power in the interests of big States. Therefore, Sir, I urge upon business, because, as I have said ear my hon. Members, irrespective of lier, as yet I am doubtful about the party affiliations, to consider careful bond fides of Government. Govern ly what steps they are going to take. ment have behaved in such a shame The Constituent Assembly passed • less manner in the case of the Bank re^lution regarding a particular arti Award, with a view to serve the in cle and then deliberately reserved terests Of big business. We are not the right of the Centre regarding a going to accept that Government are certain matter for five years. They doing all this for the sake of the have also said that the States power common man. may be used by the Centre if the Upper House passes a resolution and We have seen also what happened that by passing a resolution to power in the case of the sugar industry. 1 may continue. That means that our think year before last, in the Novem Constitution-framers, at a time when ber session, the hon. Minister of Food we were passing through a crisis as and Agriculture icame forward with a result of the war and the partition a Bill to levy a temporary cesf or of the Country, have deliberately put sugar, and that cess was sought to be a spoke to the power of the Centre. justified by saying, will, after two As my hon. friend has said, if such months, new sugar will be coming power is given, the time may come into the market, and' we will get when the Centre will feel like taking sugar cheap, to adjust the price, we over most of the other powers. are having this temporary cess. But what did we see? Two months after, 1 am now going to deal with the the sugar price did not go down. Commodity Controls Committees’s Re There was a crisis, and it went on port. What I feel is that ever this going UD above the means of the Commodity Contsols Committee might common man. Then, our Minister have made some recommendation rame forward sayini?, what can I do, because they had a particular point of our people are consuming more sugar, view regarding certain articles. Take they have begun to take more sugar, the case of jute. We know from our and therefore the prices have gone experience, as 1 come from a State up. The Congress Party has been in which is the main jute growing area, power for the last so many years but that the interests of jute growers are they have not been able to solve the being jeopardised under the present sugar problem so far, I am told that low market price. They do not get the these sugar magnates have made a economic price. They even do not contribution to the election fund of get the price as available in the Cal Ihe Congress in the last general cutta market. When in the Calcutta elections. market the price of jute is Rs. 26, the 3 P.M. jute growers hardly get Rs. 15 to Sir, this is the position. I am not Rs. 16. After the partition when we going to accept whatever facts the had very little of just, the propaganda aS 23 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2824
[Shri K. K. Basu] was madte by this Government for the proposed legislation. Some hon. increasing the (J^ute acreafie \so that Members had said the other day jute industry in our country, which that under the Plan control was is largely owned by British and other necessary to make the basic idea of big businessmen, may survive the it a success. Under the Plan we crisis, but subsequent to that when have fixed the target of 60 per cent, the prices of jute came down to such increase so far as jute is concerned. a low figure, the Government did not We have also fixed 40 per cent, for ■come forward to save the growers by the cotton so far as the production price protection or similar policies so of these goods is concerned. that the growers may get an economic price for their produce. As Mr. Asoka What we do should benefit the growers and the community at large. Mehta has said, the production has If the Government say that they want gone up by 300 per cent. I do not to control jute—the production of know what will happen two years jute fibre—because we know that our hence. Therefore, I feel that the Gov jute millowners are making enormous ernment, if they are so sincere, should profits, I have nothing to quarrel help the growers and the common about it. But let them be frank and men who are connected with this sincere about it. Thei-efore, personal particular industrial trade. They ly, from the way the Government have have enough powers with them and been behaving so long, I do not they could have saved the growers accept their bona ftdesi I would only from this crisis in the prices of the urge upon them to consider this care jute which growers get under the fully. Within four years of the present circimistances. They can ar passing of the Constitution, you want range for the supply of cheap credit to amend it in such a way that it and machinery for marketing may be completely abrogates a very vital and brought in, so that middle-man’s pro important power of the States. I fit, as it is rampant today in the jute would ask my hon. friends to be trade, may be done away with and very careful in this matter. It is our the cultivators assured of fair prices. duty to guard against the taking away They can arrange the free supply of by the Centre of whatever democra iertilisers and many other things. tic rights of control vest in the States There are many methods of control ling and influencing the price of mar in terms of the Constitution, which ket under the existing system which the framers of the Constitution, after the Centre might have utilised if due deliberation, had vested in them they had so chosen in the interests These are now being sought to be ^ f the cultivators and the trade. But taken away by this Act. We should not support the passing of this legis here it seems the Centre is not inclin lation which leaves the States without ed to act in the interests of the these powers. If you want to do any -common man and they are more in clined to work for the benefit of the thing in the Interest of the nation, In the interest of the community at large, big business. Even under the propos ed legislation, unless the existing you have enough machinery with you powers of the States are completely and you can use your powers, but you abrogated in favour of the Centre, the .should not deprive the States of the Centre might say that it cannot make powers vested in them by this Act. its policy workable as it abridges the Shri U. M. Trivedi (Chittor): On a provisions under the proviso to arti point of order. Are those who took cle 73. Therefore, I personally feel part in this debate when the motion that the existing order has adequate was moved the only persons who are provision for working the policies of on the list to speak? the Centre if they so choose, w h ich Shri K. K. Basu: I did not take the Centre wants to exercise under part. ^825 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2826
Shri 17. M. Trlvedi: I am not men in the month of December 1946, when tioning you. there was no partition the entire political trend, as was expressed in the Mr. Chairman: There is no hard debate and discussions on the various and fast rule. main principles on which the Cons Shri U. M. Trivedi: We must also titution wai to be btsed wai. that get an opportunity when those who more power and greater and fuller have already spoken have expressed autonomy should be reserved for the their views. provinces. But the entire political scene changed after August 15. 1947, Mr. Chairman: I have no record and in the light of the circumstances with me now of those who spoke when then prevailing, the atmosphere was this was originally moved. not that there should be no autono my to the provinces and no provision Shri U. M. Trivedi: I do not re of adequate powers for the constituent member who spoke at that time. States, but emphasis was placed more Shri V. B. Gandhi (Bombay C ity - on the powers and functions of the North): May I speak? Centre. It was obvious in those cir cumstances that certain powers with Mr. Chairman: Mr. Gadgil. respect to essential commodities must Shri Gadgil: I am very sorry to be reserved for the Centre, and at observe that the whole question has that time, I think the decision so far been approached from a somewhat as article 369 was concerned, was wrong point of view. In fact, my arrived at not on a deeper considera friend, Mr. Asoka Mehta, has literally tion of all the issues involved, but on drawn a red-herring across the whole pragmatic considerations. Now. the fact that the situation then justified thing. The point is not that we are doing something which is not justified this provision and that the same situa by the wisdom inherent in that deci tion continues today is admitted by sion itself and that we are going to the signatories to the Minute o f Dissent. carry It by the force of sheer majo rity. I have noted what he has said [P andit Thaxur Das Bbargava in About the fact that all the parties the Chair] other than the Congress have joined in the minute of dissent, and he Here is what they say: hinted that in spite of that fact, the measure would be carried. I would ‘*We are fully alive to the neces to assure him that my approach to sity of clothing Parliament with the this is not because I belong to the necessary authority to keep certain »Tiajority party, of which I am cer matters under Union control in tainly proud, but I am convinced in my view of the needs of planning. The m in d that a Bill of this character is situation which confronted the absolutely necessary and it has been Constituent Asssmbly when framing introduced none too soon. the Constitution was not basically Now. reference was made about different from what it is today. The the fathers of this Constitution. framers of the Constitution were also fully alive to the needs of Dr. Krishnaswami (Kancheepu- planning and the maintenance of ra m ): Founding fathers. (Interrup control by the Centre over specified tion). matters” . Shri Gadgil: I plead guilty to the charge that I am one of them. I say Those who are now running the Gov that the background, not only so far ernment are equally fully conscious as these provisions are concerned, but of the present position. After all, the general background of our Cons what do those people who are against titution, was this. In the beginning, the provisions of this Bill say in the 403 LSD 2827 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1^54 (Third Amendment) Bill 2828
tShri Gadgil] last sentence of their minute of dis sent? agreed and how many are still consi dering the matter. The position is that “We suggest that the period some are still considering, some have specified in article 369, if its ex agreed and some have not. In the tension be considered essential, light of this, it is very difficult to say may be altered so as to make the that the majority is for or against. total period of Parliament’s com But whatever be their views, the test petence extend up to ten years” . is not what the States say, but what Which means that they concede that is desirable and what is absolutely the provision of such a power is ab necessary. And what are the com solutely necessary, the situation is not modities in respect of which these basically different and that they are powers are sought? (JnterruptionB), agreeable, in spite of all they wish to My friend, Mr. Asoka Mehta, is pro say about democracy, decentralisation bably aware that when rationing was and powers and functions of the cons there and articles or commodities tituent States, that for a period of were being sold at a particular price another five years the present powers in limited quantities in the Bombay may be continued. Boiled d o w , the State, at a distance of ten miles, from difference seems to be thl»—whether Bhusaval in the State of Madhya Pra the power should be for five years or desh., there was no control and no whether the power should be put per rationing—or at least there was more manently on the statute-book as be liberal rationing. The whole picture longing to the Centre. Now, my hum was this. While people in the Punjab ble view is this. The Constitution and U.P. were getting not only as must be interpreted in the context of much as they wanted', but much more, a living and progressive community. people in the States of Bombay and It is not a dead letter. If in 1950, the down south were living with just situation basically, according to these enough to keep their body and soul gentlemen, was as it is today, then together. We were told that we were there is a greater reason for us to citizens of this country, but the dis think much more radically and basical crimination that we actually experienc ly and instead of adopting a period ed in our life was so great that some of five years and again renewing it, of us wondered whether we were at it is much better here and now, if all citizens of this country, when we we are convinced that certain powers found on one side of the country peo must be reserved to the Centre, that ple living in abundance and on the we do it permanently. And let me other side, people living in scarcity, add that this power is to be exer always in danger of famine. There cised by the Centre with the help and was no integrated food policy so far co-operation of the constituent States. as the whole country was concerned. It is not that the power has been This fact was realised in 1949 and exclusively claimed by the Centre or 1950 and additional powers were taken that the Centre, if at all it wishes, can by the Central Government. It was exercise it in defiance of the attitude after the taking of additional powers of the States. That is not possible. by the Central Government that some Even under article 369 of the Cons relief was available to the various titution, when this Bill is enacted, it States. The position in this country has to be ratified by the constituent Is that we have simultaneously abun States. Now, the constituent States dance on the one side and scarcity on have been consulted. My friend, Mr. the other with floods and famines. Asoka Mehta said that only four States Now, this is not a small country, it had ag^ed, and he worked out the is a big Continent consisting of 27 population of those four States. Let constituent States. We must have a us take into consideration how many policy which will be rational, which have agreed, how many have not will be doing equal justice as bet-^ 2829 ConstituUxm 22 SEPTEMBER x954 (Thira Am^nament) Bill
ween all the constituent States. Now, bay State is a deficit State in tne it it is agreed that there must be con matter of food. trol so far as Defence matters are concerned, If it is agreed’ that there Now, if we do not renew these must be control by the Centre ki powers, what will happen? We know matters of Communications and such what happened in the past. We do not other important services, I want to want to have that costly experiment ask th(^ Members of this House, in all once more. fairness is it not equally necessary that for the proper and adequate pro Take also the case of cotton. vision of the primary necessities to Bombay Government is very much all the citizens of this country, the against this because about 180 mills control of these should be in the hands out of 4rf0 in this country are situated of the Centre? in Bombay. I know how their minds are working. But, inspite of the fact You are talking about planned eco that there were 180 mills in the State nomy. I cannot conceive of a planned of Bombay, what was the position economy function mg efficiently unless with respect to supply of cloth in the it works with the mechanism of con year 1947 and' in 1948? We were not trol and co-ordination. This power is getting enough cloth and the cloth we absolutely necessary because you got was at exhorbitant prices. In 1948 want to live; you want to feed' your about the month of January or Feb population. If you let go this con ruary when cloth was de-controlled. trol which is bound to expire a few between that time and the time when months hence, what will be the posi control was reimposed. within those tion? Whenever appeals were made three months, according to the figures to Madhya Pradesh Government and given by Shri K. K. Desai, the present Madhya Bharat Government, they Labour Minister, the millowners made were not of any use; no avail at all. a profit of Rs. 200 crores. Therefore, in the light of experience which we have, particularly in the Shrt N. C. Chatterjec (Hooghly): Bombay State, I for one would say What were you doing? that it is absolutely necessary. Shri Gadgil: Just consider what will Shri Asaka Meh\i: Bombay State happen ii there is complete d>e-control. has oDDosed this amendment. I want to appeal to the socialist in Sliri Gadffll: That is something Shri Asoka JViehta; I want to appeal which I db not want to say to be to you, to consider what will happen. correct. Take the visw of the Bom Cloth will be sold at higher price and bay people. the supply of primary necessities will not be th^re. 1 am, therefore, telling him with the experience of the past An Hon. Member: What is their that tWs is absolutely necessary. If view? you y e agreed that there must be planiled economy, then the Central Shri Gadgil: I represent them and direction must be there. I am not I tell you, when control was r"*inoved, telling the Government to take over the only State that opposed it as a tho power and completely administer State and as a people—people in it. As I said a few minutes ago, this Poona, people in Maharashtra, people power can only be exercised with the in Bombay—was Bombay. Now, co-operation and' proper co-ordination B o m b a y is still a deficit State inspite with the activities of the constituent of the Planning Commission*.** long States. The powers are not sought to term and' short-term schemes which be the exclusive possession of the are still on paper. I do hope that Centre. These powers will be shared some of them will be implemented, by the Central Government. At the but the broad fact remains that Bom same time, in as much a.«? this item Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 {Third Amendment) Bill 283*
[Shrl Gadgil] IS being brought into the concurrent be put permanently on the statute-book list, the constituent State Legislature* are absolutely necessary. have a right to pass similar Acts but they must not be repugnant to the Shri Raghuramaiah (Tenali): Sir, Central Act. The whole thing is: do when 1 was listening to my hon. you want this democracy to be decen friend Shri Asoka Mehta, I was won tralised or disintegrated? dering whether it was a speech on the decline and fall of the Constitution or S h ii ML S. Gumpadaswamy (My anything very relevant to the present sore) : Decentralised, Bill. I might have understood a speech of that nature if we were enact Shrl GadgU: This will not be the ing a Bill which was wholly in viola result of what you propose. It will tion of the Constitution. Out of ex not be decentralisation because there perience of things in the past, on the will not be one overall, co-ordinated recommendation of the Commodity central policy or direction. What will Controls Committee and after five happen will be, everybody will be years working of the Constitution, the playing his own hand as it happened Government has come forward with in the matter of supply of food only the Bill merely to make provision for five years ago. It is, therefore, neces certain matters in respect of which it sary; because so far as textile indus is very clear in actual practice that try is concerned it is an important there must be a certain amount of thing. The other day I called' it as central control. having as much strategic importance as of manufacturing arms in this Shri Asoka Mehta has referred to country, because with the increase in the necessity of consulting the States production in that industry we can when we are trying to amend the have greater export market and the Constitution. He has suggested that money that we may earn thereby may there should be a conference of all be used for our developmental pur the States and that we should' not poses. In fact, I will go a step fur proceed ahead in a matter like this ther as I did the other day. If there without consulting and obtaining the is any industry which should be concurrence of all the States. I am nationalised forthwith, it is this indus afraid he is tr}ang to read something try, but some time must elapse before into the Constitution which is not this thing can happen. The point is, there. Under article 368, power is there is nothing against democracy in given to Parliament to amend the this. There is nothing which should Constitution in matters where the Par offend the sensibilities of the consti liament deems it necessary to do so. tuent States. The constituent States So far as the States are concerned, have Rot their power. This power *.s all that the article requires is that the not sought to be deprived, but only amendment shall be ratified by the shared with their co-operation and in Legislatures of not less than one half a manner which will be not only of the States specified in parts A and beneficial to a State here and there, B of the Schedule etc. It does not but which will be beneficial to the require that every State must agree whole population as such. The res to the amendment which is proposed. ponsibility of the constituent States is That would be an imposition which primarily for the well-being of the would be placing in our way a very people of that State, but the respon great difficulty in amending the Cons sibility of the Central Government titution at any time. I suppose, as cannot be fragmented in this manner. soon as this Bill is passed by this If it is to be exercised in a proi>er Parliament it will naturally go to the and effective way, I do submit. Sir, Legislatures of the States and their that these powers which are sought to requisite consent will be forthcoming 2833 Constitution 22 SEPTSMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) BUI 2834
[M r. D bputy-S peaker in the Chair] the present power with the Centre for another period of five years— ^in fact, It is one thing to say that we should they are even prepared to go up to a not amend the Constitution lightly. It period of ten years. is one thing to say that we should not Dr. Krislmaswaml: From the date of amend the Constitution unless there the Constitution. are extraordinary reasons compelling us to do so. But, I would say with Shri Raghuramaiah: I am reading all respect, it is quite another thing the last sentence of the minute of to say that we should not amend the dissent: Constitution at all as it the Constitu ‘‘We suggest that the period tion is there to block our progress and not to facilitate our progress. I agree specified in Article 369, if its ex tension be considered essential, the Constitution should not be lightly may be altered so as to make the amended, but in a matter like this total period of Parliament's com where experience shows that it is very petence extend up to ten years.” vital that the Centre should have power to legislate in order to co It makes no difference whether it is ordinate the policies of the various five or ten years. The question is this. States with regard to such vital com Is my friend in a position to say what modities as food, cattle fodder etc., and will be the position in India five years also products of industries; in such hence? Were the framers of the Cons matters not to amend or to feel shy to titution, with all their wisdom, able to amend it is to abdicate the duty which say correctly f i v e years ago that there we have under the Constitution. I would be no need for a continuation would most respectfully submit that of the provisions of article 369 today? the question before this House is: not If with all their wisdom they could whether the Constitution can be not say so, those who have sent in the amended, but whether it should' be note of dissent, with all their wisdom amended and whether there is suffi —of course I am not prepared to place cient justification for it. For that we it above the wisdom of the Constitu- need not go much beyond the recom tion-makers—cannot any more say that mendations of the Commodity Controls this power will not be required after Committee^ and I would' particularly five years. If today circimistances draw the attention of the House to have arisen to make us modify the what they say in para 41 at page 22 period specified in article 369, I do not of their report: know whether any honourable member can get up and say “I have got greater “The existing provisions of the power to foresee things, and I know Constitution do not permit the en such a situation will not arise after actment by Parliament of a per five years.’* This is all speculation in manent comprehensive law of the dark. It is not possible for us to controls in relation to all com know what the position will be. We modities. But the need for such a can only think in terms of the experi law is so urgent and pressing that ence we had and the experience we had the Committee, after carefully con is sufficient to bear out the truth that sidering all its proa and cons, un in India, in these vital matters like hesitatingly make the recommenda those specified in this Bill—^foodstufts, tion that the Constitution should cattle fodder, raw jute, cotton, etc.— be suitably amended to confer on which go to the vital requirements of Parliament the necessary legisla the vast mass of the people and which tive power.” have to be regulated and controlled in certain circimistances. it will be neces Even in the minute of dissent to the sary from time to time for the Centre Select Committee Report which is to step in and see that a coordinated placed before the House, it has been policy is pursued by all the States. I agreed that there is need for having would like to know if the framers at 2835 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) BiU 2836
[Shri Raghuramaiab] a conflict between the various States, the Constitution would have foreseen but what are we to do as Members of the vast and colossal floods that have Parliament? What is this august overcome this country today, that all House to do in such circumstances? the rivers could In one day rise in We are here to co-ordinate; we are spate and that millions and millions here not to have any State prejudice; of people would be there without food, we are here to adju^cate between the and clothes and animals without various States and see what is neces fodder a situation which calls forth sary for the good of the whole coun the greatest measure of Central Co try. Viewed from that point, it does ordination and distribution. A situa not matter if one State has not agreed tion like that is not easily foreseen and to it or another State agreed to it. cannot be foreseen, and therefore, A distinction has been made by Mr. when the Members of the Opposition, Asoka Mehta between the Congress who have appended their siipiatures to and non-Congress States. I think it this minute of dissent, have conceded is wholly irrelevant. India is one and the present necessity of having Central we must have the good of all the control of certain essential Commodi States at heart, and it is immaterial ties. I would respectfully say that they whether the States that have agreed have in effect conceded the necessity to it are Congress or non-Congress of the Centre having it for a long time States. I would, therefore, submit with to come. Is it their position that after all the force at my command that this five years we should again come with amendment should be accepted and another Bill like this? Of course, it we should go ahead presuming that the would give them another opportunity situation which has arisen today is to harangue about the sacredness of likely to arise time and again and the the Constitution and say that it should Constitution is not a matter which not be amended and so on and so forth. should be lightly amended. Is it their argument or contention that we should come forward again after Once again I would like to emphasise five years and say that we want this one point. As I said at the very for another five years? Is the Consti beginning, it is very necessary for us tution a matter to be so lightly dealt to remember that the Constitution is with? Is it not the very essence of the not meant to tie us with a rope, and Constitution that, as far as human that it is meant to facilitate the pro beings can conceive of it, it should be gress of the country. While the Cons permanent? Can we say with certainty titution is not a matter which should as to what is going to happen five be lightly amended, we should never years or ten years after and in the hesitate to amend it when experience light of that decide the permanent shows that the framers of the Consti structure of the Constitution? I would, tution had not suflflcient material be therefore, most respectfully submit fore them when they framed it. The that the necessity for this amendment shyness to amend the Constitution of the Constitution is practically con whatever be the circumstances I would ceded even by the Members who have submit, is not a very healthy symptom. written the minute of dissent. The We should not feel shy to amend the States, of course, are there to look Constitution when the situation re after themselves. I can quite under quires it. I would, therefore, strongly stand that some of the States will commend this Bill. raise objection. Naturally, those who produce jute would like to have more Dr. Krlshnaswaml; I listened with price for it and similarly those who interest to the Minister for Commerce produce cotton would like to have and Industry commending this BiU for higher prices and the States in which the acceptance of the House. I was Jute and textile mills are operating however hurt by one remark in his would like to have jute and cotton at speech which I feel it my duty to cheaper rates. I can quite conceive of bring to the notice of the House. He 2837 CoMMution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2838
suggested that hon. Members who had The Constitution-makers did not en appended their minute ot dissent visage control over Production, supply might probably get into headlines by and distribution by the Centre lor talking of the “occupied field” and other more than a limited period. After such matters. I do not propose to mature deliberation they fixed the justify those who have appended this tenure of Parliament’s control over minute of dissent; their minute of these commodities in the concurrent dissent is before the country and it is field at five years. Any amendment in for the country to judge whether that the nature of a far-reaching and of a minute of dissent contains valid rea permanent transfer of power to the sons or not; it is for the country to Centre must be supported by data and pronounce its opinion on whether this figures. My grievance against the amendment to the Constitution is pro Government is that they could have per Or not. There is a vast constitu furnished us with a comprehensive ency outside this house which is White Paper giving out the reasons for watching our deliberations examining such a far-reaching and permanent the steps we are taking and evaluating abridgement of State autonomy. It is the wisdom of the policies followed no use suggesting we have been irres by us. What are the issues before us? ponsible. By the time I have finished We have embarked on a constitution my speech I venture to think that I al amendment* an amendment which would have given some grounds lor a Involves the permanent abrogation of temporary abridgement of the State the rights and powers of the constitu power. But I feel that these grounds ent units of the Indian Republic. I have not been given even by the am not now on the question whether Minister in-charge while introducing such abrogation is justified or not, but this Bill. on the simple question of the manner In which this amendment has been We have been supplied with a report brought before the House. It would of the Commodity Controls' Committee. have been in conformity with sound I do not wish to indulge in polemics constitutional practice to have given about it, but it must be clearly borne proper notice to us, Members of Parlia in mind by those who have read It ment, before bringing in such an that four out of the five members of that Committee have been Secretaries amendment. Since this measure affects the States, as a matter of constitution of four Ministries at the Centre. (An. al convention, principle and practice, hon. Member: Deputy Secretaries). we ought to have had their clear and And as such, probably—we do not say unambiguous views before us. Parlia definitely—probably they had a bias in ment would then have been in a posi favour of permanent accession of tion to judge the validity of the views powers to the Centre, at the expense expressed by the States, views which of the States. would have been expressed without We ought also to bear in mind that their discretion being fettered in the the Commodity Controls’ Committee least. This has not been done. was not constituted to enquire into the scheme of distribution of powers aa As it is, notwithstanding our opposi between the Centre and the States. tion—and I do not think I need make Whenever any abridgement of State any secret about it—this Bill will be powers takes place, the usual injunc come law, subject to the ratification of tion in the case of such committees is the States. But in the present set-up I that they should as far as possible res want you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, to pect the distribution of powers and then consider this fact. The very passing only give proposals. But that is a of this Bill by this Parliament will different story. constitute a directive to the States to ratify it and the expression of inde As I said, I do not propose to go into pendent views envisaged in article the controversial aspect of this matter 368 will not probably materialise. and suggest that they should not have 2 S39 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2840
[Dr. Krishnaswami] done it. What I am more interested I should like at the outset to point in is to find out what the particular out to my hon. friends that we are reasons are ior recommending such a Uving in a period of trial and error. permanent abridgement of the powers For the past three years, we have of the States. been planting, and we have evolved some sort of system. Maybe, it is The States, af< / all, have a place in not the best, maybe it is haphazard, our body politic It is a point which maybe it has defects. But there is one has to be empl^sized. It is a point thing on which all Members will be which has to bt: brought to the notice agreed, those who support the Gov of some of my friends who have been ernment and those who oppose the thinking of thtm merely as administra Government, that that system is not tive agencies jr units and who do not scientific at all. It cannot be in the consider that they have any more im nature of circumstances. It is ex portant function to fulfil. I think that perimental and on an ad hoc basis. it is neceibary to understand tlie rea Therefore, we have necessarily to sons which led the Government to this understand that for all time to come action aLd I shall try to visualize that might not be the best system that the reas( is to the best of my ability. might work, and this sort of transfer The hon the Commerce Minister may ence of power to the Centre might lead correct nie if I am wrong, and I wish to a stratification of the very system. to be interrupted if I, in the least, have misapprehended the Government. Let us also look at it from a slightly He made great play of the fact that different angle. Today so far as the concurrent powers were given to the distribution of some of these commodi Centre for a permanent period, and he ties taken under the Industries. suggested that I had probably made a Development Act is concerned, the mistake in not understanding the full priority lists for a commodity are implications of such transference. He determined by the Centre. Surely quoted article 73 that executive instruc there can be other systems and the tions could be issued from the Centre State lists of priority may be even to the States. But it had not been better than those of the Centre. It is done. We know when it is issued. all right to suggest that for five years. Or thereabouts, when we have a diflB- When we talked of the “occupied cult period to face, when we are to* field'' what we had in view was that plan, when we are thinking of plan the legislative competence of the States ning as a Joint enterprise between the was completely abridged. So far as States and the Centre, it is all right to- this particular matter is concerned, suggest th§it^ there might be some substantially the field has been occupi additional powers given to the Centre ed by the Centre and very little is left during a temporary period. But why to the States. I think no purpose is make it permanent? Whtt is the justi served by my arguing or others argu fication? I have not been able to ing that there is some space left for understand from the spokesmen of the the States to legislate. But I should Government or their supporters what like to go to the fundamental question, particular reasons have dictated them because that is the question on which to suggest that there should be a I have been considerably worried. And permanent abridgement of the powers that is: what is our idea of planning, of the constituent units of the Indian and what are the reasons for our say« Republic. ing that there shoxild be a permanent abridgeinent of the powers of the I would also like to place before you constituent units? Let us examine some of the other considerations which some of the reasona whicfh have led should be borne in mind. My hon. the Government to take up this parti friend the Minister of Commerce and cular standpoint Industry is an economist and under aS4i Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 284^* stands the implications of price con our country. The White Paper om trol, of supply and distribution of these Indian States has pointed out that to various commodities. The fixation o f day there are many States with varyr- prices of a larger nimiber of commodi ing degrees of administrative efficiency. ties gives a greater control over the Possibly, in this transitional period,, creation of incomes in different States. because of great difficulties, in order* There is no guarantee—and this is a that our ecoixomic controls may point which I should like to bring to operate in an administrative mecha-- the notice of the House—there is no nism with a minimum degree of effi- guarantee that this power will not be dency, we might give the Centre tem abused in the future and that there porary powers for a period of five would not be discrimination, which is years. But, in another five years, they likely to work havoc to certain States. must have come up to their original That is a point which has to be borne state of efllciency. It would be* in mind. It is all right for a period an act of penalisation of the of five years or thereabouts; temporari more mature States if we say ly it might be different. Mindful of that the marginal States alone the fact that we have to have plan should call the tune and that there ning in the present circumstances, and should be permanent control or perma realising the great responsibilities nent abridgement of the functions of which are facing our State* we suggest the States. Just as in the case of the ed that there should be a safety valve Bank Award, the marginal banks deter in the shape of a review of this mine the wage rates of the employees,, amendment after five years. And the which has led to a great deal of chaos, heavens will not fall if after five years our Government seems to imagine that we approached the Rajya Sabha for the marginal States will continue to the extension of legislative power by be marginal for all time imd therefore another year or two. permanent' powers ought to be given to the Centre. Acharya Kripalani (Bhagalpur cum Purnea): The Minister in charge may fall! There is a great deal of argument about national interests. I should Dr. Krishnaswami: That may be. like to refer to it at some length. But he would have no vested interest The Constitution-makers were not al in this. together oblivious to national conside rations, when they said that certain I am suggesting that five years later subjects should be in the State field. we could have an examination of the They obviously thought that it was whole Constitution brought up. Plan in the national interests that these ning, as has been pointed out by the subjects should be in the State field'. Prime Minister, is something dynamic. By you having utilised all your powers The face of India would have altered under entry No. 52 in List I, practical completely. The constituent units ly many of the industries have been* which are today poor would have be transferred, under the Industrial Deve come richer. Are they going to lopment Act, to the Central field for acquiesce in a permanent abridgement control, productiion and distribution. of their resources just because it is Are you sure that it is working in convenient for the Centre now to take the most ideal fashion? Ninety per them on? This is a fundamental issue cent, of our major industries have which has to be faced. been transferred to the Centre and There is another argument for en there is a system of licensing which trusting the Gk)vemment with tempor has been adopted by the Development ary control over these matters. I am Wing of the Commerce and Industry surprised that my hon. friend the Ministry. It is one thing to say that Minister for Commerce and Industry portleular industries are of national did not refer to that fact. We have, interest. It is quite a different propo for instance heterogeneous States in sition to say that any new unit that 5843 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1964 (Third Amendment) Bill 2844 IDr. Krishnaswami] should be licensed ^should be licensed that the States should be abolished al only by the Central Licensing Board. together. I want to make one obser Why should somebody from distant vation and I hope that my hon. friend ^outh come over here to the Develop the Minister of States will corroborate ment Wing here, and put forward his what I am going to say. The States, point of view, a point of view which I think, have had a very good record. may not be appreciated by the Deve It is not or proper for my hon. friends lopment Wing, far removed from the to indulge in defamatory statements local habitat, and' not having any about them. knowledge of the local conditions? All Shri Raghuramalah: May I know these points have to be taken into who said that the States should be account whenever we think of State abolished? It is a very serious allega control, State autonomy being assured. tion. Who said that? I have been told that there are other Pandit K. C. Sharma: He is not difficulties which have to be taken making that allegation seriously. Into account. People talk of unifor Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I think the mity. I am all in favour of unifor hon. Member is going far beyond. mity. But, there are two ways of Dr. Krishnaswami: I am coming to achieving uniformity. One way is the point. that of issuing directives to all the units to conform to a pattern. There I welcome that interruption. I say is the other way of taking hold of the that if you continue to abridge these policies of the States and co-ordinating powers, as you have done, the States them, and thus promoting a degree of very soon would have nothing else to uniformity from the Centre. The attend to except “Treasure troves’* latter, I think, is the better way. The and “Cattle pounds*’, to quote two of latter, I think, is more democratic, the entries to be found in the Consti because it will give a consciousness to tution of India. I suggest that if you the people of their responsibilities and are going to have this idea of State make them feel that they are having co-operation, you have to really apply a greater stake in the weal and wel your mind afresh as to how we are fare of our country. going to have co-operation.
Our Prime Minister, on one occasion, Shri N. C. Chatterjee: On the burial gave expression to a prophetic remark. ground. He said, public co-operation could' not Dr. Krishnaswami: Today, for ins be obtained unless there was co-opera tance, we have had a great deal more tion from the bottom to the top. Are of co-operation with the Centre in the you going to have that co-operation by State field than we have had in other Imposing directives and by suggesting fields. Take irrigation and flood con to the units, if you do not co-operate, trol. That Is purely within the State there is the Sword of Damocles hang field. But, some of the problems that ing over your head, which will crush faced us, were of a baffling comple you and make you realise that you xity. Today, as a result of persuasion, should be responsible after all? We as a result of adjustments, as a result have to realise that especially when we of compromise, without necessarily are living in a period of trial and issuing a directive, the States have co error, permanent accession of powers operated much more than in the case to the Centre may not be the best of those subjects where directives have thing at all. been issued from the Centre. I want that point to be borne in mind, be Many have talked about the States. cause it is absolutely essential if we Some have referred to it as a luxury. are going to build up a healthy fram e Some hon. Members have suggested work in our country. aS45 Constitution 22 SSPTEMBER 1954 {Third Amendment) Bill 2846
Our position would' alter radically What dtoes it mean in practice? To in another five years, because the day, for instance, many of these ad States would become much more ministrative rules which are being powerful. Even those advanced States issued by the various departments do which have a certain degree of admi not necessarily come up before Parlia nistrative experience of these things ment for review. They cannot, in the would not necessarily acquiesce in this very nature of things. Usually, what permanent abridgement. You give will happen is that all these powers them a lot of functions. You give will be wielded, in effect, by a Secre them a lot of responsibilities. But, tary or an executive of the Government. you do not give them the wherewithal Ifi that what you want? Is that how to carry out those functions. It is a democracy is to be promoted? Don’t point of view which has to be taken overload the Centre with too many into account. It is a point of view functions and then say, we have not which cannot be ignored. ,1 would been able to fulfil them. This is a wish very much to appeal to the hon. point of view, which if you are not Members here. I know some may say able to understand now you will be that it is useless on my part to appeal able to appreciate some time later. I to them. Nevertheless, I think it is am not expecting you to be convinced perfectly useful. Certainly some of on these matters thoroughly. I suggest the inarticulate premises which you that if we go on progressively abridg have held must be rudely shaken. ing these powers, it will be impossible That is my purpose in speaking today for us to create that atmosphere of co on this subject. Let those who hold operation absolutely essential for some of these positions be shaken in what is known as inter-dependent their approach. If you wish to have association of the various constituent real co-operation, -f you wish to have units within the Union of India. And Union-State co-operation or Dominion- I therefore appeal to my friends and Provincial co-operation as in the Domi those who are in particular for the nion of Canada, I say that you cannot building up of better relations, not to have it unless you are able to bring persist in this constitutional amend together the States and co-ordinate ment, to claim only temporary powers their activities and not just impose in the national interest and then bring your will on them. about a review of the position after five years. That you may not be able Shri A. M. Thomas: How can you to take up. That position might be co-ordinate without Central control? difficult for you to take up. but should you take up that position, I venture Dr. Krishnaswami: Control will to suggest that the constituent units follow persuasion. How did you con and the States and the people in differ trol in the case of big flood projects ent parts of our country will praise where you do not necessarily have you for your democratic effort, and will control whatsoever? You can certainly take the definite view that at least for control because the Centre has got once you listened to the voice of rea enough financial grants to give. That son. I make this plea. I know it may itself is a method of exercising con not be heard, but I hope at least re trol. There are one thousand and one motely it will make some impression ways of controlling in the interests of on those in power and in direction of democracy. Make them feel that they policy, so that ultimately we might be have a consciousness of their responsi able to have a better chapter opened bilities. Do not impose your flat on in the relations between the Union them; do not impose your hnkum on and the St&tes. the various constituent units and say that they should carry it out. 4 P.M. An Hon. Member: No chance. There is one point which I hope you, t o , will appreciate. People talk of Sliri C. C. Shah (Gohllwad- t)owers being transferred to the Centre. Sorath): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the 2847 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2849:
[Shri C ..C . Shah] opposition to this Bill is l)a8ed under the Industries (DevelopmenI' essentially upon two arguments, viz., and Regulation) Act under the that it is a serious encroachment control of the Centre permanently. upon the powers of the States^ and When that Act was passed, I never secondly that it will retard the beard any Opposition Member say forces of democracy by exceasive that we were doing something which centralisation of power. These two was outrageously wrong ___ arguments may be repeated in var Shri K. K« Basn: We were not ious forms by various speakers, but here. if you analyse all the speeches of the Opposition, essentially it comes Shri C. C. Shah:, .that we were to these two arguments and no more. encroaching upon the powers of the States to such a great degree that An Hon. Member: What more do we were permanently altering the you want? division of powers between the States and the Centre. Five of the Shri C. C. Shah; Yes, exactly, and most important items—cotton and therefore I will examine only these woollen textiles, paper, iron, steel, two arguments. coal and mica—which make up Divorced from facts and speaking more than fifty per cent, of the items theoretically and in the abstract, composed of the nine items under these arguments may soimd very article 369 have already gone under plausible, but what we have to the control of the Centre, and that examine is: what is the nature of too by an Act of this Parliament,^ the encroachment, and what will be and that Act was passed because it its effect. That is why I request my could be passed, and yet there was friends in the Opposition to con no opposition to that. Only four centrate more on facts, rather than items remain. Those four items are on abstract principles which they are what you may call agricultural enunciating. We are as much in products, and the agricultural pro love with those principles as you ducts cannot be brought under the are, and ----- control of the Centre except by a minor amendment of the Constitu Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Hon. Mem tion, and that is why this Rill is, bers will kindly take care to see that technically speaking, an amendment they address the Chair—on both of the Constitution. But it is ex sides, tension of the same principle by Shri C. C. Shah: I appreciate it. which we transferred these five Sir. important items from article 369 to the permanent control of the Centre. Now, what is the nature of the I, therefore, respectfully submit that encroachment which is so much we are doing nothing new, nothing talked of? Article 369 is composed outrageously wrong, in what we are of nine items over which the con doing today, but we are only ex trol of the Centre was given for a tending a principle which this Parlia period of five years. Out of these ment has already accepted by the nine items, five items have already Industries (Development and Regu been put under the permanent con lation) Act. That is to be borne in trol of the Centre. I will read mind. those nine items: cotton and woollen textiles, raw cotton, cotton seed, The only new item which is in paper (including newsjprint), food cluded in this amending Bill is raw stuffs, cattle fodder, coal, iron, steel jute. Now, that is an item with and ^ c a . Out of these nine items which, primarily speaking, it is the West Bengal Government which is put in article 369, five items, viz^, cotton and woollen textiles, paper, concerned, and it is that Government coal, iron, steel and mica are already which has fully concurred in this .2849 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2850
Bill. Therefore, does it lie with us to say that in spite o f the con such legislation as they think pro currence o f th« on ly Qovemmtot per, and the Centre comes in only which is primarily concerned w ith when the problem becomes an all- raw jute and which consents to these India problem and a situation has powers being given to the Central arisen where it becomes necessary Government, we should object to it? that, because of the varying and con (iTrterruptiaiw). The hon. Memht flicting laws passed by various Shri K. K. Basu may represent th e , States, there should be some uni people of Bengal better than the form legislation. But, that is not all. West Bengal Government, but that Under clause (2) of article 254, even is a claim which I doubt. when there is a legislation by the Centre, if any State makes out a case that in spite of a Central Act it Mr. Oeputy-Speaker: It is only a is necessary for that State to have doubt, after all? an Act of its own even inconsistent with the Act of the Centre, and if it Shri €• C. Shah: I would like to satisfies the Central Government and put it as mildly as I can without in the Act is reserved for the con any way offending his susceptibili- sideration of the President and re tiei. (InterrupHon$). ceives the assent of the President, the State Act can prevail within that Shri Ragharamalah: It is a doubt State even over the Central Act in spite of its being inconsistent. There without doubt (Interruption$). fore, this loud talk of occupied field and the States being permanently Shri C. C. Shah: There is one other and outrageously deprived of their item in this about which nobody has field of power is, if I may respectfully said anything, namely, Imported aay so, somewhat outside the facts. Articles. (InterruptUms). It . ii true that mica is not included at The third thing we have to bear present under the Industries (De in mind is, as the hon. Minister re velopment and Regulation) Act, but ferred to it, article 73. Under article it can be added by an Act of Parlia 73 the entire executive power of ment without any amendment of the Acts of this nature is left to , the Constitution. States. Now, I entirely agree with my friend, Shri Asoka Mehta that a The next thing to bear in mind is legislation of this character cannot that these items are being put in the succeed unless we have the full co Concurrent List. My hon. friend operation of the States, because the Mr. Asoka Mehta belittled the Act, even when passed by Parlia importance of the fact that these ment, would have to be administered items are put in the Concurrent List, by the States, and therefore, even and he thought as if it was a when Parliament thinks of passing permanent encroachment upon the such an Act, it will and it must—the powers of the States. Now, I would Government at least must—assure like to refer to article 254 of the itself that the States will fully Constitution which states the effect implement the Act which Parlia- ' Of an item being in the Concurrent ment wishes to pass; because, the List. So much is said about the entire executive power under the occupied field and so on. Let us proviso to article 73 rests with the see what exactly it meansi Article States, and therefore, unless there 254 (1) says that if there is an Act is the full assured co-operation of passed by the Parliament which is the States, the Centre, in spite of the inconsistent with an Act of a State, fact that it has the power to pass then, to the extent of the inconsis such an Act, will hesitate and will tency only the Central Act will pre not, in my opinion, pass such an Act vail, but that leaves the full field unless the full co-operation of the and discretion to the States to pass States is forthcoming. 2851 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 {Third Amendment) Bill 2852
[Shri C. C. Shah] Now, on all these grounds it miist , upon the Central Government be obvious, 1 submit, that there is reserve powers to enable the neither such serious encroachment of exercise of control over any com power, nor such serious disturbance modity at any time; such law of the distribution of powers as is should be sufficiently elastic and sought to be made out. And the coj[i)prehefwive to meet every States will still be consulted. They ^ emergency/^ have the opportxmity to voice fully their views under article 368 when That is a complete axiswer to those this legislation goes to them for who advocate a resort to article ratification, and it is only when half 249 of the Constitution, which is the number of States of Parts A and only of a temporary nature. 6 concur in this legislation that it An Hon. Member: Emergent. will become effective. But apart from that, what are the facts? Mem Shri C. C. Shah: Certain obser bers of the opposition have argued vations have been made in this and they have conceded that a further minute of dissent regarding the Com extension of the powers may be mittee which made these recom necessary under article 369. We mendations. I must regret that must go to the recommendations of these observations should have the Commodity Controls Committee been made by responsible Members in this connection. My hon. friend of this House, , Shri Raghuramaiah has already re ferred to para 41 of that report. I Some Hon. Members: Why? would like to read para 36 of that ShH €. C. Shah: I will presently report, because so much has been point out why. What does the minute made A article 249, which gives of dissent say? It says: power to the Rajya Sabha to pass a resolution regarding a particular “Without casting any reflection commodity, which has got to be on any individual member of the renewed from year to year. What Committee, we deem it our duty does para 36 say? It says: to point out that four out of the five members of the Committee “Whether at any time it is were either Joint Secretaries or necessary to exercise control in Deputy Secretaries to the four respect of a particular com Ministries of the Central Go modity and if so, to what extent vernment. and in what form the control should be exercised depends en They have said that because four tirely upon the overall situation of them were either Secretaries or regarding that commodity at Joint Secretaries or Deputy Secre- that time. The commodities in taiies of the Central Government, respect of which control is neces therefore, they must have a bias for sary and the form and extent of the Central Government. It needs a such control, therefore, keep on great deal of courage to say that changing from time to time. It because they are civil servants of ts neither possible nor desirable the Central Government, therefore, that legislation should be under they must have been biassed or pre taken time and again to provide judiced. (Interruptions), The only for control of different com grievance made is that no re modities as occasion arises. To presentative of the States was have a number of laws on the associated with that Committee. As subject of control is also con to what they have done, you have fusing. The Committee con only to turn to Appendix II and III siders it essential that there of the report. You will find in should be a single permanent Appendix II, the names of each one and consolidated law conferring of the twenty-six States, and eachi 2 8 5 3 Constitution 22 SKPTEMBEB 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2 8 5 4 -
one of these States has submitted its Acharya Kripalanl: From their memorandum on the questions which acts, we judge them. this Committee was to consider. Twenty-one out of the twenty-six Shri C. C. Shah: It is not that they States appeared before the Com are opposed to the principle of this mittee, and gave all their argu Bill. It is not that they are opposed ments, submissions and facts on the to the necessity of this legislation. questions which were being ex If they had been in power, if they amined by the Committee. were occupying the benches which Shri N. C. Chatterjee: May I draw Government are occupying today, they would have passed the same the attention of the hon. Member to legislation probably with more one point? All that we have pointed drastic powers. out is that it is a matter of regret that not one representative of the Some Hon« Members: No. (Inters State Government was represented ruptions). on the Committee. Shri C. C. Shah: It is only because Shri C. C. Shah: That is what I am pbinting out. The States were fully the powers are to be exercised by consulted at every stage. persons other than themselves that they do not like this legislation. Shri N. C. Chatterjee: Not the State Government. The Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Scientific Research (Shri Dr. Krishnaswami: They were not K. D. Malaviya): I knew .vou can represented on this Committee. never be so wise.
Shri C. C. Shah: You may dVaw Shri Raghuramaiah: I doubt whe your own conclusion that because ther they will have that wisdom. a representative of the State was not there, there was a bias against the Shri C. C. Shah: I submit that the States and in favour of the Centre. Opposition opposes because the powers That is not a conclusion which I am which are now being given to Go prepared to draw, and that is not a vernment will not be exercised by conclusion to which any reasonable them for the present or for a long person should come. time to come, and that is the only ground of opposition, with which we Pandit K. C. Sharma; That is not warranted at all. entirely disagree. I support the Bill, Shri C. C. Shah: The real opposi tion to this measure is based upon a Shri Raghavachari (Penukonda): different ground altogether, and that I was also a member of this Joint ground was given out by my hon. Select Committee, and I am also friends Shri K. K. Basu and Dr. one of the authors of this minute of Krishnaswami, and that ground is, dissent which has been appended to *'we doubt the bona fide of this Go the report of the Joint Select Com vernment.” mittee, along with my other friends.
Shri K. K. Basn: Of course. (In- I too had the pleasure of listening terruptions). to the derisive remarks of the hon. Minister in charge of this BiD. I ShH C. C. Shah: Shri K. K. Basu for one know that when they have says, of course, and Dr. ICrishnas- no argtmient, they generally begin to wami said that there will be an abuse the opposite party. The Minis abuse of the powers by this Go ter has a notion of his own con vernment. That is exactly where viction, and the reasons behind the they disclose their real ground of opposition he is unable either to see opposition. That charge is not true. or understand in their proper light (Interruptions). Apart from what the minister Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bm 2856
[Shri Raghavachar.i] thought, he came out in his assumed oilseeds, and almost every con- superiorrty of knowledge. I really ceivable thing on which human feel that that is hardly the attitude beings must live, and animals also -that a responsible Government must live in this country, should be Minister should ever have towards within the purview of the Centre's the opposing members of the Select interference. Naturally, therefore, 'Committee, especially when all of they said that this power cannot go 'them have found fit to append a beyond five years. joint minute of dissent. Now, the only question is that it - I was listening carefully to Shri is not a general discussion merely o trols were hopelessly and miserably They came to that conclusion be- applied and administered in the cause if you examine the allocation whole of the States, much of this of items under the different Lists in suffering of the country would have the Seventh Schedule, you definitely been saved? Therefore, this is the find that there has been a particular taste you have left, and this is the picture before the Constitution- way in which you have exercised makers, and since that picture was these controls over these five years. that in. India, peculiar as it is, mostly I for one honestly feel that it might an agricultural country, they never take not five years, but ten more could- contemplate that foodstuffs, years before all that corruption, the Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bm ~8'58 habit of corruption, which these con- much food and so the food position trols have produced and left behind is comfortable. the cloth position is in every nook and corner of this comfortable and every position is country, goes. Every human being comfortable. Today, even before the who has had anything to do with end of the Plan period, they are these controls has misused his power. spending crores to make us much He has battened and fattened him- more self-sufficient. They believe it self. You entrusted all these mono- to be so. Still they want us to believe polies to a co-operative society or a them when they say: 'Who can say particular friend or a partisan or what the next five years will bring'?' somebody and the consequence was So do they want us to believe that that he went on accumulating money when they are saying all these things, in crores, lakhs and thousands. I that they are spending crores to solve would ask any Member of this House this problem, they are deceiving us to consult his own experience or the and they are putting a spurious case? experience of his near relatives, if They say that this is going to solve they had anything to do with the the problem. But today they ask, control and distribution and trade of 'what is going to be the position to- these things, whether it is not a fact morrow? There might be a famine; that they have made money. How the whole country might perish; this can you, therefore, say-a point which responsibility is theirs". Is it not equ- you have made-"there is absolutely ally the responsibility of the States and nothing here. We want this. We are of the whole nation? Therefore, all going to do that"? How can you ex- these arguments are simply arguments pect the country to believe this and for the sake of arguments. to forget the nasty impression that you have created in the mind of al- most every human being, that these I for one feel that the whole scheme controls are an engine of oppression, of this distribution of powers in the that these controls are matters for Seventh Schedule is that the State people. who can make themselves big has absolute control over things which and fat? That is the thing which is are essential in everyday life. They no at the bottom of the opposition; that, doubt get for a temporary period- I personally feel, is' against the ex- five years-some powers under article tension of these powers. 369. Now they have added to item 33 in the List and they want to base the entire argument on what the Then it was said that these people Commodity Controls Committee has who dissented had conceded the need recommended. Have they examined for extension. The next argument the way in which the Commodity was: who can say what the next five Controls Committee has approached years will bring? And we are with this problem? They went to the a planned economy. These are the length of saying that items 26 and 27 arguments which are urged. I ask: of the State List should be abolished. what was it that you had placed be- Is that the recommendation of a res .. fore your mind when you started the ponsible set of people who are really Five Year Plan? They expected- interested in the proper jurisdiction they are saying they believe, and they and rights of the States. They said want us to believe-that at the end that items 26 and 27 must be removed of the fifth year, they would have from there; they also said that these solved this food problem. We at the power's must be permanently taken end of the third year a d in two or over by the Centre. two and a half years expect the .food situation in the country to be much Therefore, when I read through better, practically self-sufficient. They that report, I was perfectly satisfied are in every budget speech, on every thai: their approach-and the only occasion-and in their journals+- approach would be-that controls claiming that they have produced so must be retained. Do you forget tlw 403 L.S.D. 2859 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2860
LShri Raghavachari] cjxperience, during that period o£ con power, by some interest. Therefore, trols, when Mahatma Gandhi was this power is a very bad thing in life; alive and was about to stake his life it often makes a man use it not pro for the abolition of these controls; perly. There have been quite a few because the controls left behind in the occasions like that Therefore, shall country the dirtiest experience and we entrust these powers permanently habits? I feel unwilling to express this, to them? Have they made out a i>\it it is a well known secret that the case? My point is simply, Whether existence of controls is the existence they have made out a case. They of an army of officials. It is the very referred particularly to an Act that foundation on which the officials has already been passed, where cer would exist. tain commodities on which industries flourish have already been the sub Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy; An ject of some legislation. I have not army of favourites. been able to understand the whole Shrl Raghavachari: We know purpose and the need for these ela that quite recently Mr. Rajagopala- borate powers that they want. I can chari had the courage—I expect with understand that in a state of emer the consent of the Centre—at a later gency, in a state of danger, certain stage—to abolish the controls in powers to the Centre are necessary. Madras. Did the heavens fall then? But what is it that they are propos ing to take? Is it trade and com I must here express my apprecia merce and supply and distribution tion of the fact that the Food Minister that they want? If it is inter-State Mr. Kidwai, has always taken a bold trade, you have that power. If it is stand. Even on the floor of this within the State, why do they want House, I have heard again and again to go in for that? Our fear is about the plea for controls, for basic con some of these powers that they want, trols and people saying ‘there is need more particularly over food-stuffs for controls*, and Mr. Kidwai coming including edible oilseeds and oils or cat and saying ‘there is no need for con tle fodder, including oilcakes etq. These trols in this State, there is no need are all the things, power over the for control in that State*. The other production, trade and distribution of day ...... which they want. That means with Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Is it not an in the State. Otherwise, it is un argument against the hon. Member, necessary. If it is meant only to keep that the Centre will exercise it with your powers over trade and com care and caution? merce and distribution and supply, there may be something to be said Shrl Rag^havachari: You will please for it in a state of emergency, as a appreciate that it is not always that matter between State and State. That we have people who exercise their you can do even now. powers properly. For instance, I will cite my experience in this House. Therefore, it is umiecessary. These For the last 2J years I have been powers are sought to be taken over seeing so many Boards which have matters which are all-inclusive and become ‘black Boards’, nominated which leave nothing for the States. Boards in the pockets of the Minis It is also likely to affect many other tries ...... items of the list in which the States Shrl M. S. Gurupadaswamy: Rub have exclusive responsibility. It may ber-stamp Boards. be said that it will not be exercised in the old way, but the point is: Shri Ra^havacharl: Every dny a where is the need for such power to Bill is brought saying that what the be given to them? For instance, powers and constitution of these there 1? agriculture. You want to Boards are, saying that these are not take power for production of food ta be elected but nominated by some stuffs; agriculture includes education, ^i6i Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 2862
research, diseases of plants and all must come to Rs. 1,000 and then he such things. These are all matters will do something. There has been for the State. If they want to take suspicion—some questions are often over control on production of food* asked on the floor of this House—that stuffs, then there is need for control much of it is going to benefit the over land which is in the State list. vanaspati industry. The Minister was Then, you know, foodstuff is not de saying—only yesterday or so—that the fined in this. We must presume that vanaspati ti'aders are passing through whatever is eaten or consumed is very bad days. Therefore, much of foodstuff. What about liquor? It is their margin of profit is being cut; a drink which is naturally within the may be, where th e/ were getting competence of the State. Then they crores, they might be getting only —^the States—^have got the preserva lakhs. But, the point really is that tion of cattle and the States have to the agriculturists are having nothing. take the responsibility of preserving Therefore, Sir, the imfortunate thing cattle without the cattle fodder; that is, so far as these powers which they is, some other man produces cattle want to take over permanently are fodder so that my cow or buffalo concerned, I feel it is such a big must flourish. Again, I find that slice; that, I am afraid, will leave water, irrigation, canals and all these nothing to the States. It will surely things are there in the State list. How lead to all kinds of complications can they control foodstuffs or their apart from these arguments of en production without power over water croaching upon each other’s power. and other things like that? It is all something, which, when you examine I also find that in matters of amend ment to the Seventh Schedule, the in detail, will appear to be against Constitution requires that the majority the whole scheme of the arrangement of A and B States must consent. Is of these Schedules. it not wisdom, is it not the ordinary Then again, they get control over comnionsense that you should have a fisheries because fishery is something possible expectation of the majority connected with food over which they of these States agreeing to this en want t« take the monopoly. It may actment? They have consulted the be said: they are not going to exercise States and as far as the analysis plac all these powers; it is only put in there ed before the House is concerned, it for exigency or emergency. All the looks...... offences relating to these matters are Pandit K. C. Sharma: They expect within their, i,e., States competence. their ratification. About agriculture and all these other things the offences are also within the Shri Raghavachari: You expect competence of the States. Now, they ratification; I will come to that. What want to change it over to the Con I am saying is: today they have been current List and thereby, certainly, it consulted and they have expressed is an encroachment on the States' their unwillingness; some are against powers. They may say: they are and some are still considering. As not going to exercise it like that, but one hon. Member at the earlier stage how am I to accept that? There are of this discussion said: “They have very many occasions when it has been not got the courage to say *No* It wrongly used or improperly used. To only means that they are willing to say quote an instance I come from that ‘No^ but they are afraid to say that. part of the country which is known That is the only thing behind that for oilseeds. Almost everyday there argument. If that is so, is it not that is a loud cry about oilseeds. It is not the Government are forcing this one district or two districts, it is al against the consent of the States? In most 2i States—Hyderabad, Mysore. other words, they do not care or they Andhra aiHL also some parts of Mad hope to persuade the States after the ras. The whole thing is controlled Bill is passed. Persuasion can from and the Minister wants that the price coercion to reasoning with tnem. 2 8 6 3 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1654 (Third Amendment) Bill 2664
jShri Raghavachari] Therefore, because in the States they Centres’ legislation if It is Inconslft- happen to have a majority—I once tent with the Slate’s legislation to even heard an argument to that effect that extent alone, it prevails and over —they thdnk that this is the most other matters the control of the State opportune moment and they can rush l*e;gislation prevails. But what pr^“ through with this legislation. But, it vents the Centre from passing an aU- is a: most dangerous attitude for'^any ccmprehensive legislation leaving no section of the representatives of the rcom to the State to legislate? There people that they can do things in a fore, if really you want to have uni- moment of expediency. It Is not a lormcty of Lej^l’slation a n d administra Luestion of our frdends here saying tion in regard to these fundamental or Uiat there is Congress majority in impjrtant items like foodstuffs and mos;; of the States and therefore, it otner materials, as per th6 Constitu will all go all right. How can we tion it is provided that you caSn so expect that? You are changing the legislate with the consent of the Constitution petrmanentlyi. Will the States. The Parliament can ;egislate; present state of affairs continue per that law will govern these matters in manently in the country? Can you all the consenting SWates. Some States always expect that the Centre and may agree and other States may later the States will all be manned and con accept to be guided or abide by the trolled by one party, one politisral legislation that is passed. party? It is not a question of giving The other point is they referred it to more powers here or more powers Iwenty-seven States and said ‘we want there. That is a flipp>ant argument the power’. I think except the Part and not a reasonable argument You A and Part B States, the Part C States cannot say that another man will not may be practically left out o( consi misuse it. The whole question is as deration. J^arliament can always to what should be the responsibility legislate for them. We have always of a Parliament before the Centre got these powers. So the question can be allowed to take over such of there being some trouble jp less large p^owers, stretching over almost advanced States; that argument does all the activities of the Slates ex not appeal to me. clusively reserved under this alloca There was one other argument. tion of subjects. I have felt that there Mr. Raghuramaiah was saying “ the has been absolutely no need to have persons who have, append^, the such wdde powers over all these minute of dissent have conceded that items. I have myself given an amend it viay be extended for five years.” “If ment that the word ‘production’ must there is need*\ they have put in. If be omitted in the clause; of course, in you do not wish to read the “if'’ and due course 1 can refer to it when the other things, I cannot help. matter comes up. One can under stand, tracJe, commerce, supply and I personally feel that there is distribution. I once heard the Com absolutely no need for this amendment merce and Industry Minister saying at this moment when they claim, that control over some industries itti* their plans claim, and they volves control over supply and distri are always doing propaganda that bution. Are they not satisfied with things are quite well, that they have the powers over tradte, industry, sup managed things so well and that all ply and distribution? They want to of us are happy. And now they say control all these things, relating to “tomorrow there may be dilflculty and flj^le, production etc., on which the therefor’a we want powers” . I am States largely depend for their fm- not at all satisfied. I feel there is no ance. My hon. friend Shri C. C. Shah need for this amendment poyr, was saying that it is a concurrent Mr, Deputy-Speaker: Shri Mul- subject. What does it matter? JThe chand Dube. *8^5 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1654 {Third Amendment) Bill 2^66
Shrl U. M. Trivedi: Those of us the Members of the Legislatures. So w)io were not given an opportunity when this Bill is attacked on the at the time of the first consideration stand that it is an encroachment on ^were told that we would get an op- democracy, my submission is that ^ rtu n ity at the time of considera the entire approach is wrong. This tion of the Select Committee Report. House is quite as much a democratic But we find that those who had al body elected by direct election, and ready taken advantage have again therefore so far as the question of spoken today and we are deprived encroachment of democratic right is of our opportunity. concerned, that question, I submit, does not arise. Mr« Deputy-Speaker: I do not know who ail spoke already, whe The second point that has been ther Shri Asoka Mehta spoke al made is that it is not necessary at ready. Shri K. K. Basu spoke al the present moment. And an argu ready. Dr. Krishnaswami spoke al ment is put forward in support of it ready. Shri Gadgil spoke that the food situation at the present Shri U. M. Trivedi: He spoke moment is comfortable and satisfac twice. tory. The food position is comfort able and satisfactory because the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: And then Centre has been administering this Shri Raghuramaiah, Shri Raghava- subject for several years past. It is chari, Shri C. C. Shah. I am calling not because the States were admi others also. Each hon. Member may nistering the subject that the position take ten minutes. Many of the points is satisfactory. We have famines have been sufficiently stated. and scarcities in different parts of India every year. In this year also Shri V. B. Gandhi rose— there have been floods in Bihar, As sam and West Bengal, and in otheir Mr, Deputy-Speaker: Yes, Shri parts of the country also a great Gandhi’s name is also here. I can quantity of food has been damaged never forget it. or destroyed by floods. There are many States which have scarcity even Shrt V. B. Gandhi: Thank you. in this year. Shri Mulchand Dube (Farrukha- bad Distt.-North): I beg to submit This is certainly an abncrmal year that it is absolutely necessary that to a certain extent. But every year, the proposed amendment should be in and out, we find that there is made. Hon. Members opposite have scarcity in one State or another. If approached this question from an a surplus State takes it into its head entirely different and, if I may say to say that it will not supply food to so, erroneous point of view. They the State which is deficit or supply have approached this question from it only on such conditions which the point of^ iew of the States and may not be practical or which may not from the point of view that India not be acceptable to the other State, is one unit and not a conglomeration in that case who is the authority to of States. come in the way and to see that the food is supplied also to the deficit The points made by the Opposi Slates on reasonable terms? It is tion. as already stated by Shri C. C. only the Centre that can do so. Shah, boil down to these: firstly Therefore, it is necessary that the that this is an encroachment on de Centre should have the power to con mocracy, and secondly that it is not trol the foodstuffs and their distribu necessary at the present moment. In tion throughout the whole of this regard to the first I may say that this country. Parliament is also a democratically elected body and it represents the Apart from this it has also to be citizens of India quite as much as considered that the Centre does not 2^67 donstitution 22 SEPTISJViBISR 1954 (third Amendment) M l 28^8
[Shri Mulchand Dube] take the full powers in respect of Their suggestion in the matter is: foodstuffs and the other items that “We suggest that the period are included in this amendment. specified in article 369, if its ex* , | They are only placed in the Concur tension be considered essential, rent List. And placing it in the Con may be altered so as to make the current List means that the execu total period of Parliament's com tion of any legislation which may be petence extend up to ten years*” passed by the Centre will be left to the States. They agree with the central object. Then there is another thing, that Only they would give this power in this Act will not become law unless a different form and for a shorter it has been accepted or endorsed by period. The reason for their wanting at least half of the States. to give it in a different form and for Therefore, to say that it an en a shorter period is that they are ap croachment on the democratic rights prehensive that the present Bill,—I of the people or that it is not neces shall quote— sary at the present moment or that it ''if passed into law as it stands will not be necessary hereafter, is will constitute a serious en not correct. My submission is that croachment on the rights and all these arguments do not carry powers of the States.'* much weight. I fully support the Bill and I hope it will be passed. If we can now show that the present Bill does not constitute such an en Shri V. B. Gandhi: We are glad croachment or that the States them to say that in the report of the Joint selves do not consider it as an en Committee that is before us we see a croachment on their rights or that general agreement with the central the States themselves agree with the object of the Bill. When I say gene objective of the Bill, of course, much ral agreement, I mean the entire of the force of their argument should agreement of the majority report as go out. As we know, after all, this well as the agreement of the minori Bill does not become law and the Con ty report, that is, the minute of dis stitution does not stand amended sent which is signed by seven emi simply by this House and the other nent Members of the Committee. House of Parliament passing it. It What is the central object of this has ultimately to go to each one of Bill? The central object of this Bill the States in Parts A and B. After is to enable the Central Government all, the States are going to have to continue to have the power to le an opportunity to have their say gislate in respect of certain essential whether this Bill constitutes an commodities. This power the Union encroachment upon their rights or Government already has today, un not. I think we ought to leave it to der article 369. But it will lapse on the States to decide and not take the 25th January, 1955. When I say upon ourselves the responsibility of that we have a general agreement I deciding such a vital issue for them. say that the minority report also I come now to para 5 of the dis agrees with the central object. Here is what they say (page v ): senting minute regarding the Com modity Controls Committee. We “We are fully alive to the ne would very much like this House to cessity of clothing Parliament dissociate itself from the observations with necessary authority to keep that occur in this para about the per certain matters under Union con sonnel of the Commodity Controls trol in view of the needs of Committee. After all, they are not planning/* here to defend themselves and in So they agree with the need of keep fairness, we ought to say that we dis ing certain matters under Union COD' sociate ourselves*from these observa* troi. 2869 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1954 (Third Amendment) Bill 287O
. There is another contentilon made ‘potentiar power and the ‘real’ power in this regard. The minute of dis will rest with the States and the sent says: States legislatures. In this connec tion, I will quote a passage from the “ ...it was not within the pur speech of the hon. Minister of Com view of this Committee to enquire merce and Industry in the other into the question of distribution of House in which this distinction ' is powers as between the Centre made very clear, where we are able and the States/* to see that the power which the Union Government will exercise will be One only has to look to the terms of potential power and that real power reference of this Committee and will rest with the States. Here is there the first term is...... the passage:
8hrl Rasrhavacharl: The hon. Min “...even in regard to item 33 of ister has conceded that. List III as it stands today...”
Shrl V. B. Gandhi: I am quoting Shri M. S. Gunipadaswamy: On a from this report itself. point of order, the hon. Member is just quoting from a speech which the It is,— hon. Minister made in the other House. Can he quote that speech? ‘'to examine and review the working of the Essential Supplies (Temporary Powers) Act, 1946.” Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: Minis ters’ statements arc allowed. Now, this Act lapses and it is, there Shri M. S. Gunipadaswaniy: There fore, the duty of the Committee to recommend ways in which the powers was a previous ruling in this House. at present exercised by the Union Government can be continued. If Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The previ these powers can be continued by ous ruling referred to speeches made means of an amendment to the Con by Members of the other House. stitution, it was perfectly within Speeches made by Ministers can be their purview to suggest such amend quoted. Hon. Member can look into ments. ' it. The Ministers are both here a*id there. If they make one statement There is a general belief that by here and another statement there, we extending the Concurrent List, as it can bring to their notice such things will be extended if this Bill is pas and refer to that statement. They sed, we shall be doing some violence have made a statement already with to the federal principle underlying a view to explain some misunder our Constitution. But authorities on standing about that statement. An constitutional law have said very exception has been made in regard clearly that neither the existence nor to speeches and statements made by the extension of the Concurrent List the Members of Government. in any Constitution violates the fede ral principle of a Constitution. Some Dr, Ram Subhag Singh: Why this hon. Member said,—I believe it was discrimination in this small matter? Shri Asolca Mehta,—that when this Government Is taking this power, it Shri V. B. Gandhi: The passage is: is going to use that power. Of course it is going to use it. But, ‘using the “...even in regard to item 33 of power* is rather a crude expression List III as it stands today in res when we are talking in terms of the pect of those powers which the Constitution. The power that the Central Government exercises, Union Government will be empower the amount of regulation directly ed to exercise under the Concurrent exercised by the Centre is the List will be what Is known as the minimum ...” 2871 Constitution 22 SEPTEMBER 1964 {Third Amendment) Bill 287a
[Shri V. B. Gandhi] I wish to repeat this: “the amount ol commodities are commodities whidi regulation directly exercised by the are liable to surpluses and deficits one Centre is the minimum*'. year or the other. The States will “ ...... and we can only say that consider this matter strictly from the the power that is vested in the point of view of the interests of the Centre is potential rather than States, of their individual Stat6)|, real and it is very largely left to while not ignoring the interests the State Governments to operate Union as a whole. There can cer these powers either by express de tainly be no question of the States legation or by the rule-making looking at this problem from the powers vested in them.” point of view of there being two hos That is all about this apprehension of tile camps, one camp “the States” the Centre usurping the powers un and the other camp “the Union Gov ernment**. They will certainly not der the Concurrent List which belong to the States. look upon this question from the point of view that what is the gain of 5 P.M. the Union is the loss of the State, or In this House, it is very essential that what is the loss of the State is that we consider this problem also the gain of the Union, and therefore from the point of view of the States. for us in this House to consider this It would be interesting for a moment matter in a very theoretical and aca to consider how the State legislatures demic manner is not really necessary will react to this Bill. What will be at this stage. We can trust the States the considerations on which their —their legislatures are fully responsi judgement will be based? For the ble—we can depend upon them to States, it will be an intensely practi take care of the real interests of their cal problem, and a very serious pro individual States. Therefore, in talk blem too. We must not forget that ing about these interests of the States here we are talking of the States in and the encroachment on their rights the abstract. But all States are not in this House we are barking up the similar to one another. They have wrong tree. Let us therefore be very different problems and their patient, wait and see. economic status is not the same. So, Mr. Dcputy-Speaker: Has the hon. the considerations that will weigh Member much more to say? with the States cannot be the same in all cases. The States will also Shri V. B. Gandhi: I will finish seriously give consideration to their in two to four minutes. past experience in regard to these Mr. Deputy-Speaker: All rigiht. powers which have been exercised by Two minutes, (interruptions). the Union Government in the past Some Hon. Members: Let him five years. They certainly will not continue tomorrow. forget to consider and weigh their ex Mr. Deputy-Spcaker: Let him periences in the past five years. The finish so that another hon. Member States will also consider how the may start tomorrow. needs of their planning will be affect Shri V. B. Gandhi: If you will al ed. There will be States which are low me ...... surplus States in the matter of food. There are others which are deficit Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes. * States. There are States which are Shri V. B. Gandhi: ...I wili con liable to floods, famines and other kinds tinue tomorrow. ot natural calamities. Then, there Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then the are States which have lately gone House will stand adjourned and through very heart-rending ex meet at 11 a .m . tomorrow. periences, as a result of tliG The Lok Sahha then adjourned operations of hoarders and speculat till FAeven of the Clock on Thursday ors, because most of these essential the 23rd September, 1954.
