COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE C n l f th C nt f M
MINUTES
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C n l Ch b r, 8th l r
CO E E: 9:03 a.m.
ESE : Councilmember Michael J. Molina, Chair Councilmember Danny A. Mateo, Vice-Chair (O t 2: 8 p. . Councilmember Gladys C. Baisa, Member Councilmember Jo Anne Johnson, Member (In :0 . . Councilmember Sol P. Kaho' ohalahala, Member (In :20 . . Councilmember Bill Kauakea Medeiros, Member Councilmember Wayne K. Nishiki, Member Councilmember Joseph Pontanilla, Member (O t :00 p. . Councilmember Michael P. Victorino, Member (O t 2:00 p. .
S A : Carla Nakata, Legislative Analyst Camille Sakamoto, Committee Secretary
A MI .: Moana M. Lutey, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Department of the Corporation Counsel (It . (6 , (2 , ( 6 , nd ( 8 Ryan Anderson-Teshima, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Department of the Corporation Counsel (It . ( 6 nd ( 8 Floyd Miyazono, Chief of Recreation, Department of Parks and Recreation (It . ( 6 nd ( 8 Lauren Farmer, Safety Specialist, Deputy Director, Department of Water Supply (It . ( 6 Deidre M. Tegarden, Coordinator, Office of Economic Development, Office of the Mayor (It . Traci Fujita Villarosa, First Deputy Corporation Counsel, Department of the Corporation Counsel (It . nd 24 Brian T. Moto, Corporation Counsel, Department of the Corporation Counsel (It . ( 6 nd ( 8
O E S: Danny Agsalog (It . B. Martin Luna (It . Melen Agcolicol (It . Orlina Cala (It . Henry Noa, Prime Minister, Reinstated Kingdom of Hawaii (It . 24 Russell Kahookele (It . 24 Peter Sinenci (It . 24 James D. Kimmel (It . 24 Alex Luka (It . 24 Kilinahe Noa (It . 24 COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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Glenn Au (It . 24 Nelson Armitage, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Reinstated Kingdom of Hawaii (It . 24 Johanna Kamaunu (It . 24 Kaniloa Kamaunu (It . 24 Mahealani Ventura-Oliver (It . 24 Nathan 0. Foster (It . 24 Twenty-five (25) additional unidentified attendees
PRESS: Akaku: Maui Community Television, Inc.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(gavel). . . The Committee of the Whole meeting for Thursday, November 18th, 2010 is now in session. Members, good morning.
COUNCILMEMBER : . . .(laughter). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Let's get settled, please.
COUNCILMEMBER : . . .(laughter). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: It is two minutes after the hour of 9 o'clock. For the record, we have in attendance Committee Vice-Chair Mateo; Committee Members Baisa, Medeiros, Nishiki, Pontanilla, Victorino. Excused are Members Johnson and Kaho`ohalahala. From the Committee Staff we have now working with us, we have Carla Nakata, and we have Committee Secretary Camille Sakamoto. Members, I trust you have read your binders and looked at all your agenda items. We do have a very big agenda today. I would advise you to consult with your office staff about the possibility of a recess, coming back this afternoon, depending on how long discussion takes--either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon after the Council meeting. As far as your Chair, I am not available next week, so in the event that we have to look at a recess, I would ask you to look at your schedules. . .maybe this afternoon, after Member Johnson's meeting or tomorrow afternoon. So hopefully, depending on how things go, we can maybe wrap things up by 12:00 or 12:30. So just giving you a heads-up on things. Members, I'm going to...before we take public testimony on our...I guess we've got one, two, three, four, five, six items today. We do have a couple of litigation matters brought to my attention that these cases have been dismissed. I believe there...it should go rather routinely. At this point, we have no testimony for Committee of the Whole Items 1(6) and 1(23). Members, if you'd have no objections, the Chair would like to proceed addressing those first two items, then we will go into public testimony for our other agenda items. Any objections?
COUNCILMEMBER VICTORINO: No objections, Chair.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: No. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCIL MEMBERS: No objections.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. So be it.
ITEM NO. 1(6): LITIGATION MATTERS (INDEMNIFICATION AUTHORIZATION: BRIAN MURPHY V. THE STATE OF HAWAII, ET AL.; CI I O. 08 0622( (C.C. . 0 4
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, the first item we have is Committee of the Whole 1(6), Litigation Matters, Brian Murphy versus the State Of Hawaii, et al. A correspondence dated May th, 2009, from the Corporation Counsel's office, requesting consideration of a proposed resolution entitled: Indemnifying Thomas M. Phillips in the Brian Murphy versus the State of Hawaii, et al., Civil No. 08-1-06221. And basically this is a transmittal of a copy of the complaint. The complaint alleges that the plaintiff, Brian Murphy, has suffered injuries as a result of actions taken by the Department of Police and Chief of Police, former Chief of Police, Thomas M. Phillips. The purpose of the proposed resolution is to indemnify Chief of Police Phillips in the case. And we have from the Corporation Counsel's office, we have Ms. Lutey to give us an overview of this matter.
MS. LUTEY: Thank you. This case was dismissed by the court on July 17 th, 2009. Our indemnification, therefore, is now rendered moot, so we do not need to take action on this matter.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, any. . .questions on the matter? If not, the Chair is ready to offer a recommendation, and that will be to file the matter. Chair will entertain--
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (inaudible).. .
CHAIR MOLINA: --a motion to file.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, I move to file the matter.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, I second the motion.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. The motion to file has been made by Committee Vice-Chair Mateo and seconded by Committee Member Baisa. Any discussion?
. . . Seeing none, the Chair will call for the vote to file. All those in favor, signify by saying "aye".
COUNCIL MEMBERS: Aye. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MINUTES C n l f th C nt f M
November 18, 2010
CHAIR MOLINA: All those opposed? Thank you. Chair will mark it seven "ayes"; two "excusals", Members Johnson and Kaho`ohalahala.
O E: AYES: Ch r M l n , Ch r M t , nd C n l b r , M d r , h , nt n ll , nd t r n .
OES: n .
A S AI : n .
A SE : n .
E C.: C n l b r hn n nd K h ` h l h l .
MO IO CA IE .
AC IO : nd n I I G f rr p nd n .
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you very much, Members.
I EM O. (2 : I IGA IO MA E S (INDEMNIFICATION AUTHORIZATION: ELMER STEPHEN WEREB, ET AL. V. COUNTY OF MAUI, ET AL.; CIVIL NO. CV09-00198 JMS LEK) (C.C. . 0 4
CHAIR MOLINA: Moving on to our next item. . .this is the Elmer Stephen Wereb, et al., case versus County of Maui matter. A correspondence dated August 4 th, 2010 from the Corporation Counsel's office requesting consideration of a proposed resolution entitled: Indemnifying Randall Burgess, Kamuela Mawae, and Donna Gomes in the Elmer Stephen Wereb, et al. versus County of Maui matter. And, again, I will turn this matter over to Ms. Lutey. And the complaint alleges the wrongful death of Dennis Wereb at the Lahaina Police Station on September 28 , 2008. Ms. Lutey?
MS. LUTEY: Thank you, Chairman. In this case, I had come before the Council to ask for indemnification of the three remaining individuals who were not dismissed from this case. There were ten originally named, we got seven dismissed. And since the last time we've met, I was able to convince plaintiff to dismiss the remaining three. So this, likewise, has become moot and we do not need to take any action. There are no individuals remaining in this case.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Lutey. Members, any questions for Ms. Lutey? Seeing none, the Chair will offer a recommendation, and that is to file.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, I move to file the matter.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, I second the motion. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. The motion to file the proposed resolution has been made by Committee Vice-Chair Mateo and seconded by Committee Member Baisa. Any discussion?
. . . Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying "aye".
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aye.
CHAIR MOLINA: All those opposed?
. . . Thank you. The Chair will mark it seven "ayes"; two "excusals", Members Johnson and Kaho' ohalahala.
O E: AYES: Ch r M l n , Ch r M t , nd C n l b r , M d r , h , nt n ll , nd t r n .
OES: n .
A S AI : n .
A SE : n .
E C.: C n l b r hn n nd K h ` h l h l .
MO IO CA IE .
AC IO : nd n I I G f rr p nd n .
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you very much, Members. All right, Members, we will now go into public testimony. At this point, we have one person signed up, and the individual that has signed up, his name is Danny Agsalog and he will be testifying on Committee of the Whole Item 33. Mr. Agsalog, if you'd like to take the stand, please? And just as an FYI for anyone who would like to testify, you have three minutes to testify with one minute to conclude, and please state your full name and any organization that you may be representing. And by all means, please turn off all cell phones and other noise-making devices so as not to disrupt our proceedings today. Mr. Agsalog?
. . .BEGIN PUBLIC TESTIMONY . .
MR. AGSALOG: Honorable Chair Molina for the Committee of the Whole and Honorable Members of the Committee, good morning.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Good morning. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MR. AGSALOG: My name is Danny Agsalog and I'm here testifying on the COW-33. And I really appreciate this opportunity to express my support for this particular item in your agenda--establishing a sister-city relationship with the Municipality of Badoc, Ilocos Norte in the Philippines. Mr. Chair, Badoc is located in the northern part of Luzon, it's bordering Ilocos Sur and Ilocos Norte. It is small farming and fishing community and where I have had the opportunity as a growing, young boy to swim the shore of Badoc, Ilocos Norte. I have...I was raised in Sinait, it's the bordering town of Ilocos Sur to the north, and Ilocos Norte is the bordering town of Badoc into the south. Badoc has also its pristine beaches, just like Maui; and also it's a rural farm community, a small community And these fields and farms produced a lot of hard-working sakadas that came here to work in the fields of Maui.
. . . There are also new immigrants that have arrived here and made a lot of . .contributions to our economy and our community people like my friend from HC&S, Roger Magbual who is still work at HC&S is a, one hardworking farm worker; a sister named Melen Agcolicol who owns Copy Services, who are here with us this morning is also from Badoc; their father, Mr. Stanley Magbual, who started Four Sisters Bakery, is also from Badoc. A son of Badoc also is Ferdinand Cajigal, the State Highways, he's also from Badoc. Mr. Chair, your approval for this request of establishing a sister-city relationship will honor the many contribution of the young men and women that now resides here on Maui. So I would really ask for your support. Thank you very much.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Mr. Agsalog. Members, any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony, Mr. Agsalog. Next to testify on Committee of the Whole Item 33, we have Martin Luna, and he will be followed by Melen Agcolicol.
MR. LUNA: Mr. Chair, Members of the Committee of the Whole...
. . . I'm proud to be among fellow Filipinos from Badoc, Ilocos Norte, Philippines, whose parents were from Badoc. My father, Martin T. Luna, was only 18 years old when he came to...when he left Badoc to come to Hawaii to work in the sugarcane fields. My father came to Maui first, then was sent by Amfac to work at its plantation in Kekaha, Kauai. The year was 1928. My father retired from Amfac 30-plus years later. Also arriving on Maui from Badoc were four brothers--Aurelio Luna, Martin G. Luna, Tomas N. Luna, and Generosa...Generoso Luna. Aurelio and Tomas worked for Wailuku Sugar until they retired. Martin G. and Genoroso moved to Honolulu, where they worked in automobile sales and raised their respective families there. With a long history of immigrants from Badoc and the number of children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great-great grandchildren. . .these immigrants have, living here on Maui today--a sister-city relationship between the County of Maui and the Municipality of Badoc would not only be diplomatically appropriate, but would also be rewarding, a rewarding recognition of the close ties that many Mauians have with relatives in Badoc. From this sister-city relationship, cultural and artistic exchanges--besides business and economic ties--could be fostered that will enrich the Filipino heritage in the County of COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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Maui, where Filipinos make up about 20 percent of the population. One of the most famous men in the Philippines, Juan Luna, was born in Badoc. Juan Luna was one of the great painters of the Philippines, besides being acclaimed as a patriot and diplomat. Unfortunately, I cannot claim that he was the progenitor of all of the Lunas that came to Maui.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (laughter).. .
MR. LUNA: Nevertheless, having Juan Luna as a son of Badoc adds significantly to the importance of having a sister-city relationship with Badoc, the gateway to the historic Province of Ilocos Norte. On my only trip to the Philippines, we visited a museum and I bought this book.
.. . I, I, I brought it because I wanted you folks to know that lawyers are not just culturally challenged--
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (laughter).. .
MR. LUNA: And --
MS. NAKATA: Three minutes.
MR. LUNA: --at that time when I bought it, it was because of Juan Luna. I have marked the pages that Juan Luna's paintings are featured. And you will see there's a distinct like for painting women--
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(laughter). . .
MR. LUNA: --so I thought that maybe he is really a progenitor of the Lunas.
ALL: . . . (Laughter). . .
MR. LUNA: I will leave this book, and I will . . .
. . . ask you to remember that it is not government property.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (laughter).. .
MR. LUNA: So after you folks have had a chance to look at his paintings, which are really... some many of them are in the National Museum of Art in the Philippines, that. . .I will call the Chair, Mr. Molina, and he will. . .return the book to me--
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: . . .(laughter). . .
MR. LUNA: --at the appropriate time. Thank you very much for having -- COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MS. AKA A: r n t .
M . U A: p n b h lf f th r l t n, nd r p tf ll r f v r bl n d r t n f ppr v n C nt C n t n . 0 4 nd r l t n th t p n th t, th t n t n. h n .
C AI MO I A: O . h n , Mr. n . C tt M b r , t n f r th t t f r? S n n n , th n f r r t t n , Mr. n . xt t t t f , h v M l n A l l, f ll d b Orl n C l . And M . A l l ll b t t f n n C tt f th Wh l . .
. . . th , th Ch r ld l t r n z th pr n f M b r hn n. G d rn n .
MS. AGCO ICO : . . . G d rn n . M n M l n A l l. I b rn n d , Il rt nd t nd... nd t n 80 l n th t n br th r nd t r . M nd d d n r rl r. v r b d l , I h r t b tt r l v n thr h th p n r h p f A nt n h rr d t n f th d h t b n 46. hr h th d h rd r , th p th f th l p n t b p n, nd f rt n t l f l n f th h t b n f tt d t t. I tt nd d r d h l nd p rt f h h h l n d , Il rt , nt l I t M h r I nt n d t n. . . h h h l nd l t r p rt n th nl nd. t I h l t r, ft r xp r n n l t f h n nd nt n d d t n h r t M C n t C ll . All l f I h v b n l v n n M . I h v n th n h n fr n tr n th t f th l nd n K h l nd W l nd th n b h thr , thr r l t r. In l f t I nl l v d t pl , n d nd n M . Alth h I l v d h r p r n ntl , I h d v t d d t n t f r th t th t I l v d n , f r th l t 0 r . rt f h rt h d l ft th r . And th h M h , d r t b t th h l pp n n xpl n bl . Ev r Chr t , v r h l d , Chr t nd Y r n th h l pp n v r , v r d ff r nt p r n t h t h v h r . S h rt, xp r n n d t ll n h rt v n th h I n h r n n. r n fr nt v t t d , I h d n n h n p r n t th pl ... p r n h n I h d l ft n 80. It b t r t d t n t n b f th f p nt r n n . h dd t n f th p rt th t tr n p rt t r l t nd fr n, h h , h h n d l , br n l r t th nt rn t n l tt r. It l 0 n t dr v t th n r t nt rn t n l rp rt, h h , th t rv fr ...th t rv ntr l n, S n p r , n K n , M l , nd th r ntr n th A . d th n r h, l , t n nt rn t n l nn t n. In ll t n l d , h v W t rn Un n th t n p p n fr , n , r l t v nd n b x r n fr r l t v br d th t v th r n t th r l v d n n d .
MS. AKA A: hr n t . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MS. AGCO ICO : And...
COU CI MEM E AISA: . . . C nt n .
C AI MO I A: Y h v n t t n l d . Y h v n r n t .
MS. AGCO ICO : O . And th t n ll z , b t. . . d h p l pl . S th n f r th nt. I pr d t nd pl pp rt th nd, nd I d ht r f d . h n v r h.
C AI MO I A: h n v r h f r r t t n . C tt M b r , t n f r th t t f r? S n n n , th n f r r t t n . xt t t t f n C tt f th Wh l It , h v Orl n C l , f ll d b th n t r.
. . . And th Ch r ld l t r n z M b r K h ` h l h l t r pr d n th rn n . G d rn n .
COU CI MEM E KA O O A A A A: G d rn n .
MS. CA A: M n Orl n C l . I fr ...
C AI MO I A: Oh, x , M . C l , n br n th r ph n d n n h r ? h r .
MS. CA A: M n Orl n C l . I b rn n d , Il rt , l . I fr d h n I 2 r ld. h t I th n 66. I r d n l tt r fr th n r bl Arl n rr lb , th M n p l M r. . . p bl f th h l pp n , r v n f Il rt , M n p l t f d . h n r bl C nt C n l f M thr h n r bl Gl d , C n l M b r, M C nt C n l, M , . d nd G ntl n, r t n f b h fr th l l v rn nt f d , Il rt . It th l dn th t th v n f th n p l v rn nt f d , Il rt , f r th t rh d r l t n h p b t n r pl h h n t t d b th pr d r, M r h rr lb , n th M r thr h r b d n p n r h p n th M C nt C n l h n t fr t n. M n f r t n t h v l n t d n M f r t n b r f d d n nd th h v br d t lt r , tr d t n , nd f l f . h t n f d th b rthpl f n n , th nt rn t n ll l d l p n p nt r, p tr t, nd d pl t. h t n f r ll t bl h d p bl n 4 b th A t n n fr r . It n d r v d fr th rd "b d b d " l l d th t b nd t th t , th fl r f h h d pp d n l xtr t d fr th rn l f b tt n t r d l ht. d l t d n th th. . . th rn t p rt f th r v n f Il rt , b t 44 l t r n rth f M n l . It ppr x t l v n h r r d b b fr th tr p l ...40 n t b pl n v Int rn t n l A rp rt. r th th f...fr th th, t rv th t t nd h nd f C rr n th COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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east by the town of Nueva Era and Pinili; on the south by the town of Sinait, Ilocos Norte... Ilocos Sur; and on the west by the South China Sea.
MS. NAKATA: Three minutes.
MS. CALA: . . . Oh, okay. Um. . .I just gonna read the other.
. . . The major accomplishments of the Torralba administration include the construction of the new livestock. Other important projects that were realized through the development fund of the municipality located in rural areas. With investors streaming in the municipality, industrialization has dawned in the place with the establishment of the largest private international port in the Philippines, owned by the Omnico Consortium that exports sand and gravel to Taiwan, Singapore, and other Asian countries and the Ilocos Norte Mining Company, that likewise export raw materials for cement production to Asian countries. At the rate things are going --
MS. NAKATA: Four minutes.
MS. CALA: --and with the eventual approve [ ] of the honorable Maui County Council, the Municipality of Badoc will be able to have a socio-cultural exchange with Maui, Hawaii. We, in the municipal government of Badoc are optimistic that the desired sister relationship will be overwhelming [ ] approved. Thank you and --
CHAIR MOLINA: Excuse me, Ms. Cala. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
MS. CALA: --and God bless you. Very truly yours, Honorable Arlene Torralba, Municipal Mayor. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the conclusion. Hang on, Ms. Cala. Members, any questions for Ms. Cala regarding the letter from Mayor Torralba of Ilocos Norte? Seeing none, thank you. Members, I've been informed Mr. Foster, who was scheduled to testify next, has withdrawn his request to testify, so we'll move on to the next testifier--that is Henry Noa, he'll be testifying on Committee of the Whole Item 24, followed by Russell Kahookele.
MR. H. NOA: Aloha, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: Good morning.
MR. H. NOA: Aloha, Council Members. I'd like to say congratulations for those of you who had secured your continuation as Council Members. And for those of you. . .are departing, thank you very much for serving your, your community Okay. Mr. Chairman, I believe that I have some documents that was submitted. . .so that, I don't know if they received it yet. I was just talking to the Clerk outside. . .and this is in COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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regards to the, the discussion that we had. This is...do you have it with you? Okay. The, supposed to have one revised ordinance, too. Do you have that?
MS. SAKAMOTO: Not yet.
MR. H. NOA: Not yet.
CHAIR MOLINA: Not yet.
MR. H. NOA: Okay. I believe she has it with her.
MS. SAKAMOTO: I have it here.
MR. H. NOA: Oh, you have it with you? Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. We'll be distributing it soon, Mr. Noa. Go ahead--
MR. H. NOA: Okay.
CHAIR MOLINA: --with your testimony.
MR. H. NOA: Uh. . .first of all, you know, I really don't understand. . .how this procedure going work. Okay? Only because this has to be explained. . .it has to be explained to the Council Members. Okay? And because it's, I believe, it's, it's in. . .how would you say, a format that was discussed with your Corporate [ ] Counsel member--I believe your Director, Mr. Moto--which was actually requested by Council. Okay? Yeah, I would like to cover the revised amendment instead of wasting everybody's time. . .and that way make it, make it a lot easier for us to understand. Is that okay. . .Mr. Chair?
CHAIR MOLINA: Well, Mr. Noa, we'll, we'll get to it, you know, once we start the, the discussion, when we get to the item. And at this point, you know, because the Committee Members from the last meeting had suggested this type of format, we'll, we'll, we'll work it out and see where we go from here. 'Cause...
MR. H. NOA: Okay. That's what I'm trying to understand.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah.
MR. H. NOA: What format?
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah.
MR. H. NOA: That I...
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: A forum. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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U I E I IE S EAKE : . . .(inaudible). . .
C AI MO I A: Y h.
M . . OA: Oh, f r . Oh . . .
C AI MO I A: Y h.
M . . OA: O . O .
U I E I IE S EAKE : . . .(inaudible). . .
M . . OA: S I, I r ll d n t n .
C AI MO I A: Y h.
M . . OA: O . S I p h r t t t f n f ll pp rt, , f th nd d Ord n n 0 2 , nd I h p th t th C n l ll b n pt n nd r n [sic] t th h n , because--let h r th th t h n I t d n Mr. M t , v r d th r n l b tt l. O ? And h t nd d p d n h n th nd nt f t nt d r l nd St t l , nd n t nl d r l nd St t l , b t th t th C nt Council n pt. . .th nd nt t th rd n n . And I b l v th t h d rr v d t th t d n d r n r t n . And th th p rt th t I ld l t read, , nd support--and th t nd nt t Ord n n . 0 2 . And t l br n p t p r, S t n thr h 6. . . t 6, d r v d d r tl t f d r l l nd St t l . O ? S I nl t n th l , S t n t 6.
MS. AKA A: hr n t .
M . . OA: S t n , 8, nd ll t th C n l M b r t nd r t nd h th x t n pr bl th t I, th t, th t I h d t l d b t t r , th t pr b bl ld r f d dn t t nd f r nt r tr t r t br d , h, ld nd p n th t t n. And I believe th t h n Mr. M t nd I d d t, h d d ppr t th f t th t n , th t th C n l M b r d h v th th r t t d d h th r r n t r t r n b pl d, nd th t th n t th n th t n t C n l M b r . S I br n th p nt f f r rd th t. . . h n thr h th t d , ll nd r t nd h th nd nt r v d, why t l l, nd h th t h v th th r t t r h t n th d nt. And I th n h.
C AI MO I A: O
M . . OA: M h l . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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C AI MO I A: h n , Mr. . C tt M b r , t n f r Mr. ?
. . . S n n n , h l f r r t t n .
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: Q t n.
M . . OA: t n . . .(inaudible). . .
C AI MO I A: Oh, h n n, Mr. . W h v t n. Mr. M d r ?
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: M h l , Mr. Ch r n, nd h l , Mr. . Al h .
M . . OA: Al h .
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: h n f r b n h r . I j t nt d t f nd t b j t t d tr b t d th rd n n r t l n b t, nd. . .th r t p . And th t b ...I n t r f th r ... n . . . (inaudible).. .
M . . OA: On th r n l.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: O . n h t d t n h , n h h n th r n l?
M . . OA: Y h. On , n t ll t t th nd nt
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: O . h n b r?
M . . OA: nd nt t rd n n
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: And t h n b r...
M . . OA: th t tl .
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: A th n b r n th t p?
M . . OA: Y h. . 0 2 . S rr , t , t
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: Oh, .
M . . OA: t ll n xt t th nd nt.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: O . And th t h h n ?
M . . OA: h t th r v d. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Revised?
MR. H. NOA: Yes.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Okay. Okay. And then the other one . . . (inaudible).. .
MR. H. NOA: The other one is the ordinance that was presented, the initial ordinance...I mean the initial bill that was presented to Council.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Right. Okay. So now our discussion will be on the revised one?
MR. H. NOA: That's correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
MR. H. NOA: You're welcome.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you --
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mahalo, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: --Mr. Medeiros. Mr. Nishiki?
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Are you on the panel?
MR. H. NOA: That's an interesting thing. I thought maybe the panel would be--that's why I asked earlier--I thought the panel would be discussing the issues with me.
. . . Okay?
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: No, but are you on the panel?
MR. H. NOA: I have no idea.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: I don't see his name
CHAIR MOLINA: If I may interject? We have Mr. Armitage who will be representing. But however, Mr. Noa, we would welcome you as...if you want to give your comments as well to...
MR. H. NOA: With all due respect, can I make this clarification--that in our government process, we do have protocols. Okay? And in meetings such as this, especially of this magnitude and importance, that I represent our government position, please? Okay? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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And that selecting panel members outside of our process, that's basically your kuleana. But I do believe that we do have protocols in our government; and that whoever speaks is, it's either the office of communications, which I represent, or the Prime Minister.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. We'll, we'll make that adjustment when we get to the item.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Yeah.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Nishiki?
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Do you have a representative here?
MR. H. NOA: I can't even see the names, Council Member.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah--
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: They're not on--
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Nishiki, Mr. Armitage is here, his name is here, and he was selected to represent.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Is he a representative of you people?
MR. H. NOA: Actually, Mr. Armitage serves as the minister of foreign affairs.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: So he does?
MR. H. NOA: Uh. . .he does, yeah. He actually, like I said, he holds an office in our government as the minister of foreign affairs. Okay? But as I made the distinguishment [sic], just a sentence earlier, that in our government process there's a protocol that we follow. Okay? And the protocol is approved by the, either the office of communications director in issues relating to public affairs, or the Prime Minister himself. . .of both offices that I represent. So what will happen is I will speak with Mr. Armitage, our minister of finance...I mean Minister of Foreign Affairs, and I will tell him that I will sit on the panel.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah--
MR. H. NOA: That fine?
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah, that's fine, Mr. Noa.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MR. H. NOA: You're welcome.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you.
MR. H. NOA: Thanks.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Next we have representative Russell Kahookele of District No. 6, followed by Peter Sinenci, and he will be testifying on Committee of the Whole Item 24.
MR. KAHOOKELE: Thank you, Chairman. And welcome, good morning, Council Members. Uncle Bill --
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Aloha.
MR. KAHOOKELE: --Councilmember Nishiki. Hopefully if we can get this ordinance passed and these two governments that's trying to work in these islands can work together, maybe Councilmember Nishiki's flag can start flying the right way.
. . . It's my understanding that in 2008 our Prime Minister came before this Council with an excellent PowerPoint presentation with regards to the laws that pertains to our rights as the heirs of the Kingdom of Hawaii. We came back again in 2010, two years later, peacefully waiting for this dialogue, for these two governments to work together--`cause we're trying to work with you, not against you. Councilmember Kaho`ohalahala suggested that we put a panel together so we can do more dialogue. Well, in 1993, the State of Hawaii passed Act 359--that's the bill relating to Hawaiian sovereignty. And from that Act came the Hawaiian Sovereignty Advisory Council or Commission. And I'd just like to read from this findings, yeah. The executive summary, it is recommended that the Legislature of the State of Hawaii finds that the indigenous people of Hawaii have been denied the mechanism for expression of their inherent sovereignty through self-government and self-determination, that the State of Hawaii must take the step and support the sovereignty of the indigenous Hawaiian people without imposing particular form or body of sovereign government. Throughout the United States, native governments and state governed side by side, but too often these native governments were imposed on the states by the Federal government, causing years of mistrust and separation. The State of Hawaii cannot confer sovereignty, but can support the process of self-determination. Further, that it is timely to take this step in light of the Joint Resolution of Congress, Public Law 103-150, acknowledging and apologizing for the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii. And, you know, that word "overthrow" is really wrong, because it's a coup d'etat what happened, a hostile takeover, and we are still being occupied. A lot of our people have just accepted it and went with it. But for those of us heirs who standing strong and standing true to what our Queen said--onipaa, to believe in our inherent rights--we are peacefully seeking this resolution so that we can resolve this 100-plus year dispute with respect for law. The laws are here. It is further recommended that the Legislature of the State of Hawaii acknowledge and recognizes the COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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unique status the indigenous Hawaiian people bear to the State of Hawaii and to the United States, and to facilitate the efforts of indigenous Hawaiians to be governed by an indigenous sovereign nation--not sovereign tribe like the Akaka Bill professes to, to conduct--sovereign nation of their own choosing. Well, this, this report, the final report was done in February 18 of 1994. Here we are in 2010. I don't know how much more studies we have to do before we gonna realize that somebody has to try to correct this wrong.
MS. NAKATA: Three minutes.
MR. KAHOOKELE: We know that we have this perfect right as the heirs of the Kingdom of Hawaii---whose ancestors, whose government, whose monarch never relinquished any inherent right. We know our country was outright stolen.
. . . And we looking to America, this great country who stand for justice. . .yeah. . .under God, to administer justice. Now we also know that this County had nothing to do with what happened 100 years ago. But we wanna work with this County so that we can avoid these human rights violations from being conducted upon any of the government or County employees. The last thing I wanna close with, Chairman, if you'll allow me, is the conclusion that this findings had, and it goes . . . (sigh).. .
. . .(spoke in Hawaiian). . . Come together as one with a single breath for life for the restoration of sovereignty. This was the call that went out to the Hawaiian people from the Hawaiian Sovereignty Advisory Commission. While our Commission represents diverse experiences and viewpoints, we have strived to work together for the purpose of uniting our people to reestablish, reinstate, rebuild--all basically mean the same thing--a sovereign government for the Hawaiian nation. We are presenting our community the Hawaii Legislature, Governor John Waihee, with a report which weaves together the various strands of historical and contemporary needs, concerns, thoughts, and dreams for Hawaiian sovereignty. We have woven this lei together. Please accept it with our aloha. Aloha e ke Alum. Aloha aina. Aloha kekahi kekai And...
MS. NAKATA: Five minutes.
MR. KAHOOKELE: Thank you, dear. On top of that, Mr. Chair, we know that if we gonna come together with one voice, it needs to be done through a democratic process through an election. We, the government officials of the reinstated Hawaiian government, conducted three such elections. And we are looking forward to next year's election, and we hope that people can come together and participate. But prior to that, we hope we can work with this Council. Thank you for giving me this time, and I hope that we can come to a resolution before another 100 years go by. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kahookele. Members, any questions? Seeing none, mahalo for your testimony. Next to testify on Committee of the Whole Item 24, we have Peter Sinenci, followed by James Kimmel. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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NOTE: Pause while Mr. Sinenci approached the podium.
MR. SINENCI: . . . Good morning, Mr. Chairman and the Council Members. My name is Peter Sinenci. I'm just a strong supporter for Item No. 24. Thank you very much.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Mr. Sinenci. Members, any questions? Seeing none, thank you. Next to testify on Committee of the Whole Item 24, James Kimmel, followed by Alex Luka.
NOTE: Pause while Mr. Kimmel approached the podium.
MR. KIMMEL: . . . Aloha, everybody.
CHAIR MOLINA: Aloha.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Aloha.
MR. KIMMEL: The kingdom of God is at hand. The kingdom of God is the will of God, dominant and transcended in the heart of the believer. The kingdom of heaven, the divine government of the spiritual brotherhood of all humankind, is also at hand by virtue of the fact that the founder and head of this divine government, the son of God who was incarnate on Earth as Jesus of Nazareth, is the prince of peace of this world. . .and he also is present in this room and within each of you by way of his indwelling spirit of truth and idealistic beauty. That which the Members of the Maui County Council and the people of the world need most to know is--men are the sons of God, and through faith they can actually realize and daily experience this ennobling truth. It is our basic cosmic identity. Sonship with God and the brotherhood of man is predicated on the personal recognition of the fatherhood of God. Sonship with God is a gift of eternal life which we can freely choose to accept or reject, but it is an error to reject truth because it is the reality of the consciousness of the prince of peace on any subject. And I know that each of you is equipped to recognize the fact, the law, the truth, and the love of God. This meeting has to do with the revelation of the adjudication of the case of Liliuokalani, Queen of the Kingdom of Hawaii versus the government of the United States of America. . .filed with the almighty ruler of the universe and supreme judge of the world on June 17 th, 1897 at Washington D.C. You will all recall that your Declaration of...your national Declaration of Independence states, in part: we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, spiritually, that they are endowed by their creator by certain inalienable rights. You all purport to live by the rule of law and consider your Constitution of the United States of America to be the supreme law of the land. To wit, Article 6, Section 2, this Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof and all treaties made or which shall be made under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land, and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding. And according to Section 3 of this same article, you are all bound by oath or affirmation COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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to support this Constitution. I'm also sure that most of you must know that there were treaties between the governments of the United States and the Kingdom of Hawaii which were in effect at the time of the coup d'etat, the so called overthrow of the lawful government of Hawaii that occurred on January 17 th, 1893 in Honolulu. Because the U.S. government had to violate the supreme law of their own land to forcefully take over the internationally and spiritually recognized government of the Hawaiian Islands --
MS. NAKATA: Three minutes.
MR. KIMMEL: --the U.S. government and its so-called State of Hawaii are an illegal and unlawful presence in the Hawaiian Archipelago by way of their military and political occupation of the Kingdom of Hawaii. And because the de facto governments of both the United States and the State of Hawaii have no lawful jurisdiction or authority throughout the Hawaiian Archipelago, and because the prince of peace began making plans for this planet and the potential destiny of the people thereof shortly after his resurrection and reinstatement as the sovereign creator of our universe, by way of his worldwide presence as the spirit of truth in each person. Do you remember the parable of the vine and the branches? We are all branches on a worldwide vine, the spirit of truth. When the Jewish leaders rejected and killed the son of God promised to them in the times of Abraham, they broke a divine covenant effected between Abraham and another son of God on an emergency mission to this world, one Machiventa Melchizedek, and lost their right to exist as a nation of people with a spiritual puipose. . .to be the light of the world --
MS. NAKATA: Four minutes.
MR. KIMMEL: --for the rest of the world in spiritual darkness. There is no such thing as a "chosen people", and Israel has no lawful right to exist, especially as a nation seeking to gain dominion over other people and their natural resources.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Kimmel, I'm sorry, I have to stop your testimony. You've gone over the four-minute time limit Members, do you have any questions for Mr. Kimmel, who by the way has provided written testimony for you as well that you can follow along. Any questions? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Oh, question.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Medeiros?
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kimmel or. . .Reverend Kimmel --
MR. KIMMEL: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: --thank you for your presence this morning and your testimony. You are applying your testimony as it relates to the agenda Item COW -- COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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M . KIMME : nt f r.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: 24?
M . KIMME : nt f r.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: O . I j t nt d t b r
M . KIMME : Uh h h.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: f th t. And. . .b t n n, th n f r r t t n , nd h v th r t f t n r tt n f r th t b tt d.
M . KIMME : All r ht. h n .
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: M h l , Mr. Ch r n.
M . KIMME : Al h .
C AI MO I A: O . h n , Mr. M d r . h n , Mr. K l. xt t t t f n C tt f th Wh l It 24, Al x , f ll d b K l n h .
. . . Al x ?
M . KA OOKE E, OM E AU IE CE: j t nt t t rn h ph n ff.
C AI MO I A: O .
NOTE: Pause while Mr. Luka approached the podium.
M . UKA: . . . G d rn n , Mr. Ch r n. G d rn n , C n l M b r . M n Al x . I r pr nt t v t th h f n bl t f th l nd f O h . I j t rr v d th rn n t h lp h r th . . . r nd v d l pl ht. And th t . . .I n tr n pp rt f COW 2, 24. Y n t b n 00 nd dd r . . . nd v r b d nd f r ll n h t r ll nt h pp n, b t nd f ll n th tr nd t j t nt n . And n n , h t r t l n b t r ll n th r t nt n . f pp rt r , th n h v pr v l nt, t ll r nd . t I j t nt d t h r th th t h r th r f nd r t l n v h l n r fr nt rd, nd th r htf l l nt h f r rd. W lr d h v l f d r lv nd r nt rn t n l l f r h v n th r ht t x t n t n v rn nt. nd th t h r h r t d b r f r v rn nt t rr l t th r v rn nt n th pl x f th rd p rt n d th p bl f , h d d l nd t n th r th rd p rt , ll d th Un t d St t , h th n r t d th n ll d th St t f . . . h h t v r l nt nd r th r COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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j r d t n. In r f d l n th j r d t n, I f nd th t n n l nd, th p l ff r nd l nf r nt p pl h v n r ht r j r d t n n n th r l nd. S I v , I v f nd th t v r th r . Wh t I h r t h lp t pr p r d n, nd th t t ll v t r n , n b r n , n l p ll t n ht. Kn n f ll ll th t r n h r f b d l pr p rt h ld v nd f nd t n. h lp th th t. . .th b t n , h d r t rn th n n v r d d n? h r n tr n f r f t tl , th r n tr n f r f th r t , nd t r n h r f b d l l n t h r t d , r M b r . S I ...I n t n pl d th , I nn f r r r n n nd f r r d n n t h r p t t h t r tr n t d r p t . And t d ff lt t r p t n th r t th t d n t r p t th r htf l n r. S , n , v r th r , l t f r p pl h v t rr t d, thr n n j l, h r d, nd ll th th r t ff. Y r f ll r f th t. And b h v l f d r lv t ppl th h n r ht v l t n I r f r v d th .
MS. AKA A: hr n t .
M . UKA: h n . S n r rd f th t I l n t r r l v n r lv f th pr r f nt rn t n l j r d t n. C rd n t nt rn t n l l , th d n t h v t p r n fr r v rn nt r r St t v rn nt r r d r l v rn nt t ft r th nd v d l pl r . And th h t p t t h b n p d r nd ll th r , t l ft n r h nd . And th d ff lt th n d n t h v j r d t n v r th f r r, h th St t nd th d n t h v j r d t n v r th d . t b nt nd l d K h l b l n d t r ntr , t nt r rt nd b tt d ll th r rd th t r r d t th t pr p r l . h pp l h lr d b n nt f r rd t r S pr C rt, nd r S pr C rt h lr d f r rd d t t th d r l S pr C rt.
MS. AKA A: r n t .
M . UKA: S th t j r d t n, I n th t l n t f r h nd , x pt th t t ll h ld n n t th h t p t t . And t , t n t n f r t b rn d n h nd . S ...
C AI MO I A: I rr . Mr. , pl n l d .
M . UKA: I .
C AI MO I A: O .
M . UKA: S I d l t h lp nd r t nd th th n f rth r, f I h v f r n t . t t, t f r th nt, I l v th th th d, d rd th t r th p pl f l h , nd n tt r h t r tt d n t r p pl , ll t ll nt n th l h . And b th , n t f l lt b t h t COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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r d n v r th r , r l n r ntr . h t ll f , n l d n Mr. Ch r n.
C AI MO I A: h n .
M . UKA: h n .
C AI MO I A: h n , Mr. . M b r , t n ? n n, Mr. . W h v Mr. K h ` h l h l .
COU CI MEM E KA O`O A A A A: , l h . M h l f r r, r nt . I d n t f l lt b t b n h r .
M . UKA: G d n.
COU CI MEM E KA O`O A A A A: Y h. I th n h t r tt pt n t d th t t d ff lt t t h t r l n n thr n t , nd th t h th C n l h v d t h v th f r n pp rt n t t h v , n x h n b t n th h h v nf r t n th t th n d t h r t th b d . And th t h t r l n f r rd t . S d n t xp t th t n h v . . . (laughter). . . f ll nf r d n thr n t . W ll l f r rd t th , th p n l th t nn t b f r n h v d nt x h n , nd, nd b h lp d thr h th pr n th t nn r S th n f r r nt .
M . UKA: h t h l nt nt.
COU CI MEM E KA O`O A A A A: Y h. O .
M . UKA: h n .
C AI MO I A: O . h n . M b r , n th r t n ? Mr. M d r ?
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: M h l , Mr. Ch r n. Al h , Mr.
M . UKA: Al h .
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: nd th n f r r t t n . And th n f r n ll th fr n l l t b h r . Y r b r f th h f n bl .
M . UKA: Y , r.
COU CI MEM E ME EI OS: A I rr tl th t t p rt f th r n t t d n K n d v rn nt?
M . UKA: Y , r. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
MR. LUKA: More clarification. I was twice elected to the position and once elected to the house of representatives, so I'm nearing my time as far as jurisdiction on our...so I waiting for you guys to come over and take my position. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mahalo, Mr. Luka. Mahalo, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you. Members, any other questions? Seeing none, mahalo, Mr. Luka, for your testimony. Next we have Kilinahe Noa, who will be testifying on Committee of the Whole Item 24, followed by Glenn Au.
MR. K. NOA: Howzit, my name is Kilinahe Noa, and I'm here to say I'm in support of Item 24. And I think you gonna hear everything pretty soon, you'll get a little more educated pretty soon, so I don't want to take nobody else's time.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Noa. Members, any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you. Next to testify on Committee of the Whole Item 24, we have Glenn Au, and he will be followed by Nelson Armitage.
NOTE: Pause while Mr. Au approached the podium.
MR. AU: . . . Hello. My name is Glenn Au. Last name spelled A-U, first name spelled G-L-E-N-N, two Ns. I'm here in behalf of my family. Royal Land Patent 1777 established the fact that I am Alii. Is any Alii here? Raise their hand.
. . . Anyway, my concern is I support what Henry Noa and his people have decided to follow through, because I can't do it by myself. We have to establish the fact called allodial perpetuity--who is allodial, and who is in perpetuity. Is anybody knows? We all knowledgeable, educated? Does anybody know what "perpetuity" means and "allodial"? That can be found on the first line of the Royal Land Patent 1777. It bothers me because when I found what it was, who it was, and where it was. . .40 years ago. And it bothered me that Akaka Bill has not established themselves as yet in Congress as an Act. I support the Kingdom of Hawaii and reinstatement because it's a start to get things done right for the people, all of the people. A good Alii helps all his people and takes nothing for himself. . .if he's supported by the people. My concern is that enough has been said and done for the last 100 years. If it had to be proven, I was a one-star General for two weeks in 1971 at a national nuclear alert. I don't know if there's another Hawaiian General, 22 years old, for two weeks. But that doesn't mean anything to me now because I'm not happy. What I'm happy about is the fact that you've decided to listen to these ideas of reinstatement.
. . . My concern is the crown lands. The Kingdom lands have been divided by the Land Court back in 1850, which a little bit, a thing called "fraud". The land was not given COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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away, it was assigned by the King. . .allodial to his subjects, his people, in perpetuity forever. It was never to be sold or confiscated or quiet titled. That is the Western law that was applied to the Kingdom law. I'm sorry. . .that our people didn't stand up and fight for what they believe in and die for what they believe in--like they are doing now in two wars, Iraq and Afghanistan. Why die for something that you don't really know nothing about or believe in? With the bureaucracy and the corruption that we live with--and they exist everywhere, County, State, and Federal levels, and the underworld-- we are going through a new world order now and a third wave is moving. The only thing I got supporting my ideas is the psycho-cybernetics. . .and even then, we don't know where or what it comes from. Nobody listens, everybody's indifferent.
MS. NAKATA: Three minutes.
MR. AU: My concern is. . .where are our Alii. Kamehameha had 21 consorts besides the 4 that they speak of in the Western culture, in the written language and published by the people that came here. Hawaiians didn't have a written language, they had mana and they had the ha, and the . If you knew what I'm saying, come talk to me. Let's do this right. Let's not destroy our people over a bitter battle and divide and conquer what's left. We have enough bigots of Americanos and bigots of Native Hawaiians. I'm a Native Hawaiian, but I'm with a Native Hawaiian with big "N" because I'm a veteran. But we can support all the Native Hawaiians if we come together under one god. But our god is, some say "Akua". I have a genealogy that's been done that goes 600 years before Christ.
MS. NAKATA: Four minutes.
MR. AU: Umi, aliloa and liloa. And we can go back to the garden and eve with paki and pakea and the creation of time in the kumulipo. If you don't know these things, please study it now. Forevermore hold your peace.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Au?
MR. AU: We're not being represented by the people, we're being represented by . . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay.
MR. AU: --I don't want to say it.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Au, sorry, I have to stop your testimony. Members, any questions for Mr. Au on his testimony? Seeing none, mahalo for your testimony, Mr. Au.
MR. AU: Thanks for not asking any questions. That only shows me your indifference.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Next to testify on Committee of the Whole Item 24, we have Nelson Armitage. And Mr. Armitage is the last person to have signed up for public COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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t t n . Ch r ll v n n n th ll r n l t pp rt n t t n p t t t f n n f r nd t . G d rn n , Mr. Ar t .
M . A MI AGE: Y h, d rn n . . .Mr. Ch r, C n l M b r . C pl d th n th t t fr th p r b f r , nd n f th r t rd "r p t". Y n f n t r p t h t r d n , n t r p t p pl , n t r p t why t l t d, th t nfl t. . . p ll h n t t nfl t f l l r h r t d tr n t d tt r b t n ll l v rthr . I n, I d n t n h n f nt t h l t l rn l r h v d r r b r nd n l , b t " ll l" n t nl f l, r n . O ? S I d n t nt t t nd h r nd tr t nt rpr t h t r n r , b t th r l t d n t v l t n . O ? S h n r n l r th f r p r t t th r nd d t t t, t r f r n nv t t n t b n d r d. Unf rt n t l f r th pr , l S l ` h l h l [sic] d, n , pr n history h t S n t r Inouye h d b d h whole pr f r n l t v t n n h t r t r t r l t n h v n no b t n r r l f l , r h v n n r n l n l f h d b t pr t n th h r r p n bl . If r nn pp rt r n l t v t h t, nd f h t r ll d n t d , p n n th h t p t t , l Mr...Al x nd r h d d rl r. h r l t h n t nn t p. It d n t th . If n f t h d th t l v n n th b nn n f th r n C , x h r n l t f S n t r b l t l r t r b f th pl nt . . .d dn t nn t b rr d r t...th nl f ht n h th r ht n n l r [sic], Ch rl n l r [sic]. O ? Y n , h d h d dn t...h v rz l n th pr bl , b t h n t rr pt. O ? I d n t n h n...p t d f n t n t " rr pt n", r t p rr pt n. h t n t pr bl . M pr bl t rr t th nj t , pr p r nn r th t n n n 8 , r f...h , h d , h d l v th th r n l t v t h n t d tt d b th r n l. . .b t th n th b ll p d b th v rn nt nt h nt n th p rp t t n f fr d? And r h r t d , r h r n r p f l nn r tr n t d th nt ll ntl . And t Mr. ` h l h l [sic] nt t nd d r tt r n ? h r d n d n d? A r l r l , l l . th r t d ff r n b t n r l t n nd l . A r l t n b d n h v n n b t n f... b b n t t pr . I r d l t b t th , h S n t r n W h n t n, .C., nt n t p r l t n . And t ll d "p ". And th t h t th A ll b d n. Aft r r d n nd d n th t d n th A ll. . . ld b . . .h d nt t p t t? t, ldn t b " rpr d", b n n f rpr d h n th f tr n t t r nd p rp t t th . . .th r r n l t v t .
MS. AKA A: hr n t .
M . A MI AGE: t I, I f nd t v r , v r d t d r b n tr d d f r h p r . And t t h r t d , nd r t nd n th d ff r n b t n r ht nd r n . n f n th d ff r n b t n r ht nd r n ? C I n, I n t. And r h r t d n p f l nn r tr n t d r r ll r . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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And unfortunately because we got ideas or an opinion. . .especially Mr. Moto who has an opinion that's irrelevant to the rule, but he understands that he can be prosecuted also. . .peipetuating a fraud, once a human rights' violation is committed. And today, you know, I'm here to say that I have some documents that I need to serve all of you on human rights. Okay? So with all respect, Mr. . . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah--
MR. ARMITAGE: Mr. Molina --
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah?
MR. ARMITAGE: --with all respect your communications is terrible. Okay? For the record. Because I've been trying to call you for months to keep informed as to how do you conduct this meeting, what, what is the panels about, are they, are they --
MS. NAKATA: Four minutes.
MR. ARMITAGE: --qualified to sit on the panel. That was my questions and you haven't called. You know, and that's, that's part of the conflict.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay--
MR. ARMITAGE: That's what causes conflict, Mr. Molina.
CHAIR MOLINA: I'm sorry, your time has ended. But I apologize if we didn't...I myself didn't get back to you, but again the format is basically . . . (inaudible).. .
MR. ARMITAGE: None of us knew about the format. See how important it is to know about the format, Mr. Molina?
CHAIR MOLINA: Well, we will deal with it when we come to the item. So anyway, any questions for Mr. Armitage?
. . . Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Armitage.
MR. ARMITAGE: Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Committee Secretary, do we have any additional signups for any of our agenda items?
MS. SAKAMOTO: No, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, if there are no objections, the Chair will close public testimony. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: No objection.
COUNCILMEMBER VICTORINO: No objection, Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you very much, Members.
. . .END OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, we'll proceed with Committee of the Whole Item 1(36), and this item deals with the Stacey Pounder versus County of Maui case.
ITEM NO. 1(36): LITIGATION MATTERS (SETTLEMENT AUTHORIZATION: S ACEY OU E . COU Y O MAUI, E A . CI I O. 0 0202( (C.C. . 0 4
th CHAIR MOLINA: The Committee is in receipt of a correspondence dated October 1 , 2010, from the Corporation Counsel's office requesting consideration of a proposed resolution entitled: Authorizing Settlement of Stacey Pounder versus County of Maui, et al., Civil Case No. 09-1-0202(1). The complaint alleges that on September 12 th, 2008, Ms. Pounder suffered injuries as a result of the County's failure to maintain, in a reasonably safe manner, a metal-plate-covered concrete water meter junction box, located at the Eddie Tam Memorial Center in Makawao, Maui, Hawaii. The purpose of the proposed resolution is to authorize settlement of the case. And we have, from the Corporation Counsel's office, we have Mr. Teshima along with Ms. Lutey, and also we have Mr. Miyazono from the Parks Department to give us an overview of the matter. Proceed.
MR. ANDERSON-TESHIMA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Honorable Council Members. As this case is in active litigation, I can discuss some of it now in open session; however, an executive session will be necessary to discuss this case in full detail. The basic facts of this case are as follows; plaintiff Stacey Pounder is a 40-year-old, sixth grade teacher at Lokelani Intermediate School. She lives in Haiku with her two young children. On the afternoon of September 12 th, 2008, plaintiff and her friend decided to walk for exercise up at the Eddie Tam Memorial Center in Makawao. A few minutes into their walk, plaintiff came upon a water meter junction box. This meter box is a large concrete box designed to protect the water meter housed inside. Box is mostly underground, part, part of it is above ground. Covering the box is. . .six large metal plate covers. This meter box is located on the Eddie Tam property in a grassy area near the sign and close to Makawao Avenue. It was daylight when plaintiff and her friend were walking. Plaintiffs friend was walking ahead of plaintiff, walked around the meter box. However, plaintiff chose to walk over the meter box.
. . . She alleged that as she walked over the meter box the, the metal plate covers tilted inwards, causing her to fall into the, the meter box. Plaintiff alleged that the metal plate covers tilted inwards because they were not held in place by plate hold-down anchor COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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bolts. I'm requesting an executive session to discuss any more details as far as this case. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: All right. Thank you, Mr. Teshima. Members, any questions on this particular item in open session?
. . . Mr. Teshima, let me ask you, do you recommend executive session on this item?
MR. ANDERSON-TESHIMA: Yes, I do.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. Okay. Members, any questions in open session? Mr. Medeiros?
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Just for the executive session, do we have representatives from the Water Department here also?
MR. ANDERSON-TESHIMA: Yes.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: I see Parks here.
CHAIR MOLINA: I see Mr. Miyazono.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Oh, okay.
CHAIR MOLINA: We do have a representative.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, if there are no other questions in open session, the Chair is gonna recommend a motion to go into executive session pursuant to Section 92-5(a)(4) of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, to consult with legal counsel on questions and issues pertaining to the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities of the County, the Council, and the Committee.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, move for executive session.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, I second the motion.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. The motion to go into executive session has been made by Committee Vice-Chair Mateo and seconded by Member Baisa. Members, any discussion on the motion to go into executive session? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying "aye".
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aye.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aye. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: All those opposed?
. . . Okay. Thank you. The Chair will mark it nine "ayes" and zero "noes".
O E: AYES: Ch r M l n , Ch r M t , nd C n l b r , hn n, K h ` h l h l , M d r , h , nt n ll , nd t r n .
OES: n .
A S AI : n .
A SE : n .
E C.: n .
MO IO CA IE .
AC IO : A O E ECESS p n t n nd CO E E x t v t n .
CHAIR MOLINA: So we will go into executive session. Members, it is six minutes after the hour of 10 o'clock. We will prepare the Chambers for executive session.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Members, do you prefer to take your morning recess-
COUNCILMEMBER : Straight through.
CHAIR MOLINA: --straight from here? We'll, so we'll return maybe at about . . .
MS. NAKATA: Excuse me—
CHAIR MOLINA: --10:20.
MS. NAKATA: --Mr. Chair?
CHAIR MOLINA: Yes?
MS. NAKATA: There is another proposed settlement on the agenda. Did you want to call the open session portion of that first?
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Yeah. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Members, yeah, we do have one more item that may-
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: --have to go into executive session. Any objections to discussing that matter in open session?
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: No objection.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: No.
CHAIR MOLINA: None? Okay. And then maybe we can --
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Go one time.
CHAIR MOLINA: --do it all in one motion, yeah. So, okay, Members, let's have Mr., I guess, Teshima again.
ITEM NO. 1(38): LITIGATION MATTERS (SETTLEMENT AUTHORIZATION: JULIE MATSUDA ZANER, ET AL. V. COUNTY OF MAUI, ET AL.; CI I O. 0 00 ( (C.C. . 0 4
CHAIR MOLINA: You'll be dealing with the Julie Matsuda-Zaner case versus County of Maui. And this matter deals with a complaint that alleges that on April th, 2009, Ms. Matsuda- Zaner was injured when she ran into a light post that was in disrepair at Keopualani Park in Kahului, Maui, Hawaii, a park that is owned and maintained by the County. The purpose of the proposed resolution is to authorize settlement of the case. Mr. Teshima?
MR. ANDERSON-TESHIMA: Thank you again, Mr. Chair. The basic, basic facts of this case are as follows. On April th, 2009, plaintiff Julie Matsuda-Zaner was walking her two dogs at Keopualani Park. Plaintiff alleged that as she was walking on the path with her dogs, another woman with a dog was approaching her. Plaintiff pulled off to the side of the path to allow the other woman to pass. When the other woman was near, plaintiff s dogs became excited and pulled plaintiff over a light post base that was in disrepair. Plaintiff tripped over the light post base and suffered a severe laceration to the back of her left calf. Again any further detail, I recommend discussing in executive session. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Teshima. Members, any questions in open session?
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: No.
COUNCILMEMBER : No. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Seeing none, the Chair will then recommend executive session. . .based on Section 92-5(a)(4) of the Hawaii Revised Statues, to consult with legal counsel on questions and issues pertaining to the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities of the County, the Council, and the Committee; along with Section 92-5(a)(8), Hawaii Revised Statues, to deliberate or make a decision upon a matter that requires the consideration of information that must be kept confidential pursuant to a State or Federal law or a court order. Chair will entertain a motion.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, I move for executive session.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, I second the motion.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. The motion to go into executive session has been made by Committee Vice-Chair Mateo and seconded by Member Baisa. Members, discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying "aye".
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aye.
CHAIR MOLINA: All those opposed?
. . . Thank you. The Chair will mark it nine "ayes", zero "noes".
O E: AYES: Ch r M l n , Ch r M t , nd C n l b r , hn n, K h ` h l h l , M d r , h , nt n ll , nd t r n .
OES: n .
A S AI : n .
A SE : n .
E C.: n .
MO IO CA IE .
AC IO : A O E ECESS p n t n nd CO E E x t v t n .
CHAIR MOLINA: We will now go into executive session as well for both Committee of the Whole Item 1(36) and Committee of the Whole Item 1(38). Members, it's ten after the hour of 10 o'clock. Shall we return to the Chambers at 10:20? Is ten minutes sufficient, Members?
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Yes.
COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COU CI MEM E O SO : Y .
COU CI MEM E AISA: Y .
C AI MO I A: O . M b r , , ll nt x t v n. l r t rn t th Ch b r t 20 n t ft r th h r f 0 l . . . . (gavel).. .
RECESS: 10:11 a.m.
RECONVENE: 11:08 a.m.
C AI MO I A: . . .(gavel). . . h C tt f th Wh l t n f r v b r 8th, 20 0 n r nv n d n p n n.
ITEM NO. 1(36): LITIGATION MATTERS (SETTLEMENT AUTHORIZATION: S ACEY OU E . COU Y O MAUI, E A . CI I O. 0 0202( (C.C. . 0 4
C AI MO I A: M b r , r n C tt f th Wh l It ( 6 , th St nd r v r C nt f M . d n r nd t n v n n x t v n, th Ch r ll r n z , nt rt n t n t th r z ttl nt f th St nd r v r C nt f M .
ICE C AI MA EO: Mr. Ch r n, I, I r , I v f r th d pt n f th pr p d r l t n.
COU CI MEM E AISA: Mr. Ch r, I nd th t n.
C AI MO I A: O . h t n h b n d b C tt Ch r M t nd nd d b M b r . M b r , d n? S n n n , ll th n f v r, n f b n " ".
ICE C AI MA EO: A .
C AI MO I A: All th pp d? h n . h Ch r ll r t ht " " th n " x l", M b r h . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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O E: AYES: Ch r M l n , Ch r M t , nd C n l b r , hn n, K h ` h l h l , M d r , nt n ll , nd t r n .
OES: n .
A S AI : n .
A SE : n .
E C.: C n l b r h .
MO IO CA IE .
AC IO : nd n A O IO f r l t n.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Members.
I EM O. ( 8 : I IGA IO MA E S (SETTLEMENT AUTHORIZATION: JULIE MATSUDA ZANER, ET AL. V. COUNTY OF MAUI, ET AL.; CI I O. 0 00 ( (C.C. . 0 4
CHAIR MOLINA: Moving on to Committee of the Whole Item 1(38) the Julie Matsuda-Zaner case versus the County of Maui. Based on recommendations given in executive session by Corporation Counsel, the Chair will entertain a motion to authorize settlement of this matter.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, I move for the adoption of the proposed resolution.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, I second the motion.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. The motion to adopt the resolution has been made by Committee Vice-Chair Mateo and seconded by Member Baisa. Members, any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying "aye".
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aye.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Aye.
CHAIR MOLINA: All those opposed?
. . . Thank you. The Chair will mark it eight "ayes" with one "excusal", Member Nishiki. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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VOTE: AYES: Chair Molina, Vice-Chair Mateo, and Councilmembers Baisa, Johnson, Kaho`ohalahala, Medeiros, Pontanilla, and Victorino.
NOES: None.
ABSTAIN: None.
ABSENT: None.
EXC.: Councilmember Nishiki.
MOTION CARRIED.
ACTION: Recommending ADOPTION of resolution.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you very much, Corporation Counsel.
ITEM NO. 33: ESTABLISHING SISTER-CITY RELATIONSHIP WITH MUNICIPALITY OF BADOC, PROVINCE OF ILOCOS NORTE, REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES (C.C. . 0 4
CHAIR MOLINA: All right. Members, moving on to our next item, we have Committee of the Whole Item 33, establishing a sister-city relationship with the Municipality of Badoc, Province of Ilocos Norte, Republic of the Philippines. The Committee is in receipt of County Communication No. 10-14 from the Economic Development Coordinator, transmitting a proposed resolution entitled: Establishing a Sister-City Relationship with the Municipality of Badoc, Province of Ilocos Norte, Republic of the Philippines. The intent of the proposed resolution is to establish a sister-city relationship with the Municipality. And we have from the Office of Economic Development, Ms. Tegarden; and joining us from the Corporation Counsel's office, we have Traci Fujita Villarosa. Good morning, ladies.
MS. TEGARDEN: Good morning.
CHAIR MOLINA: Ms. Tegarden, you have the floor.
MS. TEGARDEN: Thank you. Good morning, Committee Chair and Members. And thank you for the invitation to be here this morning as we look at proposing a new sister-city relationship with the Municipality of Badoc, Province of Ilocos Norte, Republic of the Philippines. . .home of, among other things, the famed artist Juan Luna, as we heard this morning. The similarities between Maui County and Badoc are numerous. The purpose of this sister-city relationship is to strengthen the bonds between our communities in the areas of culture, agriculture, business, and the economy via various exchanges. This relationship will further the ties of friendship, promoting enduring goodwill between the people of Badoc and Maui County and the United States. Maui County has a rich and COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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deep relationship with our Philippine community The Filipino culture has contributed tremendous gifts to Hawaii, including architectural design, cultural heritage, song, traditional arts, and of course, delicious food. They have truly help shape Maui culture as a whole. Internationalism continues to build bridges between our communities, bringing our citizens closer together each and every day. And through our sister-city relationships we continue to learn from one another, making our communities stronger through mutual respect, understanding, and outreach. I look forward to answering any questions you may have on this topic.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Tegarden. Members, any questions for Ms. Tegarden?
. . . Okay--
COUNCILMEMBER VICTORINO: Recommendation?
CHAIR MOLINA: Recommendation? All right. Very good, Members. The Chair will entertain a motion to approve the proposed resolution establishing a sister-city relationship with the...
MS. NAKATA: Mr. Chair?
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mister—
CHAIR MOLINA: Yes? Oh, excuse me. Yes, yes.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Yeah . . . (laughter).. .
CHAIR MOLINA: Sorry, Members. Because this is a time-sensitive matter, Members, the intent here from the Chair will be to defer, and we're gonna take action tomorrow, because we have such limited time left in the term so, and we do have some dignitaries, as to my understanding, that will be coming tomorrow.
MS. TEGARDEN: That is correct, Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: Ms. Tegarden, am I correct?
MS. TEGARDEN: Yes.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you. Thank you for that reminder. So, Members, if there are no objections, we will defer this item today, and tomorrow we will take it up at our Council meeting where we will take action, and this will be under the, Mr. Mateo's chairmanship at tomorrow's meeting. So...
COUNCILMEMBER : No objections. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: No objections.
CHAIR MOLINA: No objections to deferral?
CHAIR MOLINA: Very good. Very fast, Members. Thank you.
MS. TEGARDEN: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBERS VOICED NO OBJECTIONS. ( x d: WK
ACTION: DEFER pending further discussion.
CHAIR MOLINA: All right. Members, we are on our last Committee item for today. Maybe we should take a short recess. I wanna get the panelists up here. So, Members, stay seated. We're gonna take, maybe a two-minute recess so we can get our panelists up here. Meeting in recess for Committee of the Whole Item 24. We will be reconvening on that. Meeting in recess. . . .(gavel). . .
RECESS: 11:13 a.m.
RECONVENE: 11:16 a.m.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(gavel). . . The Committee of the Whole meeting for November 18th, 2010 is now reconvened in open session.
ITEM NO. 24: REINSTATEMENT OF THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM (C.C. . 0 2
CHAIR MOLINA: Members, we are on Committee of the Whole Item 24, Reinstatement of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The Committee is in receipt of County Communication No. 09-273 from Councilmember Baisa, transmitting a draft bill entitled: An Ordinance Acknowledging the Reinstatement of the Hawaiian Kingdom Nation and the Perfect Right of the Reinstated Hawaiian Government to Initiate the Transition of Government Powers to Share Jurisdiction and Revenue of Hawaiian Government and Crown Lands Currently Under County of Maui Management and to Prevent County of Maui Government Officials and Employees from Receiving Human Rights Violation(s). The purposes of the draft bill are to initiate the transition of government powers, share jurisdiction and revenue of Hawaiian government lands and Crown Lands within the County of Maui, and prevent County officials and employees from receiving human rights violations. Members, we have a panel here today, and first of all, I'd like to recognize, towards my right, we have Prime Minister Henry Noa; and we have also Ms. Mahealani Ventura; and we have Johanna Kamanu [sic] and Kaniloa Kamanu [sic]. Members, just to give you a quick background. . .how the Committee or the panelists was convened, again I'd sought your input as to who else would want to participate in COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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discussion. . . f th pr p d dr ft b ll. ft r th f r t t n , d d r v ll fr v r l b r f th n n t h nt d t p rt p t . On b r nd t d h ldn t b h r b t. . . nd th n, ntl n h bv l h d nt r t n th b ll. C n l b r d d t t th C tt t br n l n M ...Mr. nd Mr . K n [sic], ll M . nt r t v nt n th dr ft b ll pr p d b th r n t t nt f th n K n d . M b r , I nn , I ld l t v th p n l t b t n h r t d , h h ll b t xt nd... t l t up to n h r f th t , M b r . I n d h v t nt , b t I ld f ld nd l th p n l t t h r th r n th . And th n h t ll d , b th f r t r nd v h p n l t b t f v n t t nd f v n p n n v rv , nd th n ll , fr th r ll th th Q&A n. W ll th th t f r t. S ll rt f pl t b r t th p nt. t n th n pp rt n t f r n t nl , f ll C n l ll , b t l f r b r f th n r l p bl t b d t d n th p rt l r . S I ll p n p th r M n t r .
M . . OA: Al h .
C AI MO I A: Oh, x . Y h. t p th r ph n r nd, h. W h v l t d nt f p nt h r .
M . . OA: Al h . I b l v th t n are nn b d n th pr p d rd n n , th b tt d d n , rd n n h h d v r l nth , I b l v th t d r n th t b tt l. . .th t t r t d th t I t th C rp r t [sic] C n l b r... r t r, Mr. r n M t . . . f h h I d d. O ? I bl t t t n , nd n r, n r t n , t b l r, v r d h rd n n , th t h . . . d t v r l r th t th rd n n th t b n pr nt d, h, ld r n z n p rt l r v rn nt... v rn n b d . O ? And t , f r , th r n t t d v rn nt. And I t ld h , ll, th r n h th r n t t d v rn nt pr nt n th rd n n th v r f t th t h v f lf ll d r obligations n rd n t nt rn t n l l t reclaim nd r t bl h r r ht t p l t l p r, p l t l th r t n our n n t n. O ? And h nt r I, I b l v th t h xpr d t th t d h l r h r d n t th t th C nt , th C nt nn t r n z , , v rn nt b d . O ? r th r rd, I j t nt t l r f th ll f , , th t f nd r Un t d St t l . . .I b l v Mr. M t rr t, , th t th C nt C n l h n th r t , n n f ll...n n t ll, t recognize, , n th r v rn n b d , , n nd p nd nt v rn n b d . Y h v n th r t . All r ht? And th r n h I state th t t ensure [sic] th t b resolving th t r confronted th, h, nd r n z n th b d , t h n l l b r n . . .n n h t v r. . . th r th n. . .b n bl t ddr . . .th p rt l r pr bl th t r p n t r h t r tr n t r lv . Y n , I ld h v d th t l r th t d , b t I n t v n th t pp rt n t . O ? S sit here, h t did r I, n d n th Mr. M t , h t I h r d th h pl th , , f you f l, Mr. M t , th t n b r n z n p rt l r v r nt r p n , th n h d n t nd th rd n n h r t COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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ll specify h t th Un t d St t v rn nt nd th St t f v rn nt h d n . And n h rt, h t th b ll h v d n n l d th b d , , th pr p r l nt. S th , th nd nt... nd d rd n n th t I h r d th t d ... nd I b l v d d rv th rl r, I b l v , C n l, h ld h v r v d th h rl r. And I rr t h r th th t I n t t ll th x t d t , b t t rr d l nth ft r t t th r n, n th f r t rd n n . h p nt I tr n t , , th t n th d n th Mr. M t . . .th h n th t r d pt d. . . r th n th p r t r f th l , nd th t I r l z r I d nd r t nd th t h pr v d n h opinion. . .t rd th rd n n , r th nd d rd n n . And I, I n t. . .pr v t n h p n n, , th r th n I , I j t t ld h l I t th r b C n l b r K h ` h l h l . h t h n I r l z d th t I th n h ld l r f th n , n , b f r t nt th d n t f, h th r r n t h ld pt n rd n n . ht? And th t f r t t l t th revised rd n n , h t ll d v r th th l n th t t n d r tl t f U. S. bl 0 0, A t f th St t f . And f t th t tl , th t tl v r p f . Wh t t d d d r b t why h v th problem, h th pr bl x t t d n th C nt f M . O ? And h n I presented r pr I b l v l t, h t, thr r r t r , t , t r I tr d t pr nt t , h, th f t f l , nd h x t d th t pr , nd h we d dn t h v t nd anybody t pl t th t process. h t pr . . . d tr n f nt rn t n l l th t all r n z d n t n r former r n z d n t n h v th p rf t r ht t r n t t th r f r r v rn nt n t n t x t. h t doctrine, nd th t d tr n th t b n f l v r h n years. W r n t th f r t n th t t r v d fr p r. I d n t b l v n b th last. S n t r v d, th r b n th r . t th r h l b n th r th t h v b n bl t f ll reclaim th r p l t l th r t , f h h I t nd n, n th nd I t nd I h r t th t f r r h v b n trying t r l h t r htf ll r nd th t n t n d nt t h h n l d ll f us. O ? It d . h v th r p n b l t t d , nd I h p n th t x r th t r p n b l t b l n t th rd n n nd r l z n th t, n , I nl h r n th h t your...1 ld r ff r , r h h r ff r , th U. S. d r l v rn nt nd th St t v rn nt h v lr d x t d th ll f r n nt. h v lr d pl t d th t. Unf rt n t l , ll, Al x nd r p t t, h, t d , th h t p t t nd d p n your h nd , n r l p. O ?
. . . I t th . . .th t t pr , h, th t ll tr n p r , t pr th t n d t b nd r t d, nd t pr th t n b r d d. . . th p r t n. I d n t, I d n t know f h th r r n t f ll b h r h n f n ll f lf ll nd pl t th tr n t n f v rn nt p r , ll b tt n n th t . t I, I d b l v th t h v th r p n b l t th t h ld t d , v rn nt ff l, , t nd r t nd h t n fr nt f nd h t r superiors h v t ll x t d, nd h n pl r l , , n t n th pr . S th t th b r nd th t I nt d t h r b f r v n t nt th d n, b th ld rd n n , h h I I n ll th " ld rd n n ", h, r ll h ldn t COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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be looking at it today. We should be looking at the amended. Okay? And that's what my recommendation is. My background. . .real, real clearly, I spent over 30 years studying how can I reclaim an identity in my own homeland. That's what I've been doing. Okay? How can I do it logically, how can I do it peacefully, how can I do it through the support of law? And I believe that this is why we arrived to this point. And that's my background. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister. Ms. Ventura?
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Aloha, mai ea ka kou . . .(Hawaiian). . . Aloha . . .(laughter). . . I was...well, first of all, I want to thank this Committee, the authors, and creators for consideration of the draft ordinance, and for also including myself in discussions in regard to the subject matter--the purposes and what I see as the objective which it pertains to. I'm honored to have been asked to speak on this subject. The action taken here by it displays to the public that your Committee is committed to supporting the reinstatement of civil rights and also revenues to the owners and principals. As expressed prior to this submittal, upon acceptance of your offer and I'm just going to refer to a submittal that I sent via e-mail. It's suggestions on the. . .old ordinance, and I, I did ask if there was any revisions or amendments so that I could comment on that as well, but I didn't receive that. So I do. . .inform this Committee that I did receive from Mr. Noa the amendments to Ordinance No. 09-273, and I noticed that the language is different. I am a patent title examiner, I'm an independent title examiner, and I've been working with everyone. . .Calusa Indians in Florida to kanaka maoli . . .(Hawaiian). . . So when. . .I'm speaking on the subject matter, I hope you don't mind I'm going to pepper it a bit with some of that manao, and also as, as a member of the Human Rights Task Force that is a volunteer task force guided by the Civil Society Unit of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, and also is guided by UNESCO. . .and that is guided by the UPR Committee, which is the Universal Periodic Review that is a special venue. And I don't know if the Committee is aware of this--that's been created specifically by The Hague, Hague Relations and the United Nations together, for the first time in history, in order to review nations' human rights violations and abuses. They've opened the venue to take in and accept human rights violations from NGOs, non-government organizations from all over the world, states from all over the world, and also individuals from all over the world. And so I can. . .mahele this manao, I can share this manao with this panel and the Committee on that respect. And once again, I do have to commend you, you have my aloha for even considering taking what I consider to be a courageous step toward the inevitable--the independence of the nation. And you really have to, that is very sincere from me to all of you and everyone here that's on the panel as well. . .is that, to me, this is a historical moment where dialogue can finally be entertained and that clarification can finally be addressed, and we can kuka malu,--we can discuss these pertinent matters within the intergovernmental processes that it, that it calls for. So mahalo. I look forward to discussing these matters with everyone. Aloha.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mahalo, Ms. Ventura. Ms. Kamaunu? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MS. KAMAUNU: . . . Aloha.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aloha.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Aloha.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Aloha.
MS. KAMAUNU: Aloha. Yay! Johanna Kamanu [sic]. I'm happy to be here. Now I have an idea, kind of, of what it's like to sit over there, and I not real comfortable with it. But. . .the issue that's before us right now is what the reinstated government is requesting of the County to do. And it's an interesting request. I'd prefer to get right into the, the panel discussion and hear what your questions might be regarding what Henry is offering to us today.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Ms. Kamanu [sic]. Mr. Kamanu [sic]?
MR. KAMAUNU: Aloha.
COUNCIL MEMBERS: Aloha.
MR. KAMAUNU: This is not the first time I've been here. . .and, but it's the first time to be looked at, seeing everybody out there. But anyway. . .like my wife was saying. . .this is a great opportunity to be able to have those that are actively in movements to be able to convey their thoughts, convey what processes they're going through, to be able to really talk about laws that pertain to us as Native Hawaiians. I'm appreciative of Henry Noa and his group being able to take all this time to put things together, not only themselves but to be able to help all the kanakas out there, and, you know, being that we will benefit from this process as far as being able to speak with you today and bring out some of the information that we have obtained. So I'm grateful to be here, and thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kamaunu. Okay. Members, I will recognize, first, Member Baisa as the introducer of the bill to the Committee. I'll give you the first opportunity to ask any of the panelists questions related to the. . .a bill from the reinstatement...from the Hawaiian Kingdom. Proceed, Ms. Baisa.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Thank you very much, Chair, and I'd like to thank you very much for giving us this opportunity to have this discussion today. As Ms. Ventura mentioned, it's a courageous act, but I think one that is appropriate. It's long overdue. For the years that I've sat here on the Council, which is four now and looking at another two, I've been having people come and talk about the rights...the reinstated government and the overthrow and all of that concerns, and really not having a very good understanding of it. And I'd like to thank those who have the taken the opportunity to come and talk to me and try to help me understand a little better. But I have to say, I'm still painfully...I need a lot more learning about the whole subject. So I'm really glad COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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we're here today. But I did want to have, ask a question, and I'll address it to Prime Minister Noa, and maybe we can also ask Corp. Counsel to, to comment. On the material that was passed out to us, Prime Minister, the amendments to Ordinance No. 09-273 that you...I think I understood you say are a result of your conversation with Mr. Moto.
MR. H. NOA: That's correct.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Is he in agreement with the, with the suggested changes or is he not? And we'll probably have to get Corp. Counsel's opinion also.
MR. H. NOA: Yeah, I cannot speak for Mr. Moto on that.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Mr. Chair, may I ask --
CHAIR MOLINA: Corporation Counsel?
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: --Ms. Villarosa?
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(inaudible). . . Ms. Villarosa?
MS. FUJITA VILLAROSA: Mr. Chair, I don't believe that Brian Moto has had an opportunity to review the amendments.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: I see. So at this point, this is a result of a meeting, but it has not been formally reviewed? Because I noticed there was no cover letter and no response from Corp. Counsel with this.
. . . Am I missing a document or it just doesn't exist?
. . . Mr. Noa, do you know?
MR. H. NOA: Oh, no. To tell you the truth, I believe that we. . .did submit this. If I not mistaken, it was a week after we had our meeting with Mr. Moto.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . Mr. Chair, do we have that in our binder? I may not...I may have missed it.
CHAIR MOLINA: It's here--
MR. H. NOA: Like all other documents that we forwarded here to the Council, yeah, we've...I've sent Mr. Armitage here to deliver this documents to Mr. Moto.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Chair? In the binder—
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Kaho`ohalahala? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --on, dated April 8th, 2010, there is a communication by you, Chair, and attached to that would be a March 3 rd memo from Mr. Moto. And I believe that that communication is making reference to the original ordinance that was sent to this Committee. So I want to make sure that we understand that there are two drafts of this ordinance.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: So this dated communication makes reference to the original submitted --
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah--
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --ordinance. And today I think we just received-
CHAIR MOLINA: The amended.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --an amended one that was now being numbered 90...09-273. So if the Members wanna distinguish between the two . . . (inaudible).. .
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Uh, which is my question, Chair. And thank you, Member Kaho`ohalahala. I was looking, of course, for some kind of official transmission from Mr. Moto, because it would make it a lot cleaner if we had a cover letter from him saying I've had a meeting and these are my...and I agree to these amendments, I think they're okay. And we don't have that. And I don't believe Ms. Villarosa can provide that for us because, you know, she's not Mr. Moto. So I just wanted to be sure that everyone understood that while this is a result of a conversation, it'd be nice if we had something formal that Mr. Moto agrees.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. And Ms. Villarosa is also the Deputy Corporation Counsel, so I don't know if she's able to comment at this point. Because she was not part of the discussion, so. . .although she is here representing Corporation Counsel. So I don't know, Ms. Villarosa, are you able at this to try to respond to any of Ms. Baisa's inquiries?
MS. FUJITA VILLAROSA: Mr. Chair, I, I reviewed the document today, this is the first time I've seen it, so I'm not prepared to. . .have a legal opinion on it. If you did want to have that, our office would have to take a look at it and provide it in writing to you.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I don't wanna belabor the point, and I think that it's still a very worthwhile thing for us to do--to look at this ordinance, the amendments, and to ask questions about them and kinda get a feeling about how everybody feels about it. But I still think that, finally, we would want something from Mr. Moto. Thank you very much. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Member Baisa. Members, we'll go right down the line if anyone has questions. We'll start with Chairman Mateo.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, if I could, I would like to ask the Prime Minister?
CHAIR MOLINA: Proceed.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: If the Prime Minister could walk through the amendments with us--
MR. H. NOA: Sure.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: --individually—
MR. H. NOA: I'd be more than happy to do that.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: --and provide us your, your manao on each one of these as you go along.
MR. H. NOA: All right.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Yeah.
NOTE: Very long silence.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Proceed--
MR. H. NOA: Mr. Chair, before I begin. . .you know, I'm being told that this wasn't submitted. Is that, is that correct?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: . . .(inaudible). . .
MR. H. NOA: This, yeah, this review.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: We got it.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: We just got that today.
MR. H. NOA: Okay. Okay. Wait, wait.
COUNCIL MEMBERS: . . .(inaudible). . .
MR. H. NOA: That's what I'm...that's what, that was the discussion about, right? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
MR. H. NOA: And. . .I just wanna make this clear. . .that. . .I know that we delivered it. Okay? Now you don't have it in your folder and I cannot contradict what you got. Okay? But what I will do is I will go back into our records so that I can have this submittal because this exact was submitted to Mr. Moto. Okay? I just wanna make sure that everybody has that understanding. Only because I'm realizing right now that if this isn't in your text then I, there's no official discussions. You know, that's what I'm experiencing. Okay? I guess a part of it could be . . .my fault. . .only because I didn't follow up, okay, on whether or not it was accepted or not. But I do know for myself that we took the effort to submit this to Mr. Moto, we took it to his office, gave it to him. Okay? Now all of a sudden it's not recorded. I just want to share that. I not going to say anything beyond that. Okay? So I need to go back into my records so that I can find that documents. All right? Amendments to the ordinance. Okay, in our discussion, right, the title, okay, obviously the title, yeah, is asking that you guys accept what the United States government had already accepted--recognizing in Public Law 103-150, yeah, that statement that was made November 23 th, 19...1993, to acknowledge the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii. Okay? That's a direct statement. Okay, some of it, I just shortened it. All right? Also to declare a moratorium to prevent County of Maui government officials from receiving human rights violations. Okay? So. . .obviously what's happened is we, okay, of the reinstated Hawaiian government are executing what we believe is our rights. And what is actually happening is that we're exercising these rights to fulfill the obligations that was already set forth in Public Law 103-150. Okay? And if you understand the document, 103-150, right, it identifies the claimant. And it becomes the proper claimant, which is the Kingdom of Hawaii.
. . . Okay? They also mention the Hawaiian Kingdom in Public Law 103-150, they mentioned the Hawaiian government. . .and they also mention the lawful government of Hawaii. Okay? These are all the proper names to identify that lawful party. Okay? So I set the foundation by basically telling this Council Members, listen, by this decrees, okay, this is how we going proceed, okay, through this ordinance. So when we look at Section 1, the County of Maui acknowledges that U. S. Public Law 103-150 positively and correctly identifies the Kingdom of Hawaii nation and the Hawaiian government was illegally overthrown by the United State government.
. . . Okay? In other words, you're not recognizing us. . .okay, you acknowledging the fact that Public Law 103, again, states this. Okay? So basically all you saying is okay, you know, we agree, yeah, this is law --
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: It's the law.
MR. H. NOA: --okay, and we understand this. Okay? Section 2, this Council acknowledges the importance of the application of international law. Okay? And I going, again, I going COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
v b r 8, 20 0 base it on, through U. S. Public Law 103-150, the United States Congress and then-President William Clinton passed and signed into a law acknowledging the violation of treaties between the two nations and of international law. So it's important that you guys realize that the United States government acknowledged that they violated international law. So again. . .for you to disagree with that statement, I, I would be confused. Okay? No. 3, Section 3, this Council acknowledges that the State of Hawaii passed into Act 359 in 1993--of which I'm proud to announce that Councilmember, Mr. Sol Kaho`ohalahala was actually one of the commission members back then. Okay, A Bill for an Act Relating to Hawaiian Sovereignty. Okay, Section 2, the purpose for that bill. . .the purpose of this bill is to recognize the unique status the Native Hawaiian people bear to the State of Hawaii and to the United States, and to facilitate the efforts of the Native Hawaiian people to be governed by an indigenous sovereign nation of their own choosing. Again, direct quote out of State law.
. . . So, really, you haven't, you don't need to do anything really. They've done it all for you. Okay? Unfortunately they didn't indemnify you guys, because as I stated earlier you got superiors, right, United States government, State government. . .and nothing was done on this level yet to assist the counties. . .which is why we come forward now and we say to you, listen, I think it's time, yeah, that you guys make this effort to try to now build this bridge that I sent to you guys about in the letter. It's important that this bridge be built. Section 4, this Council acknowledges that there are Native Hawaiians who agree to be governed by indigenous sovereign nation of their own choosing. Okay? Again, all I did was repeat the law that there are kanakas out there who have accepted to fulfill the obligation within that law. Did I say all of them? No.
. . . I said that there are kanakas, Native Hawaiians who have agreed. And I can at least state to you that we're one of those, yeah, that have. There's others that have...actually believe in that, too. Okay? Section 5, this Council acknowledges and, and affirms that both the United States government and the State of Hawaii has acknowledged the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17 th, 1893, and recognize, recognizes that both the United States and the State of Hawaii has initiated efforts to address the wrong done to the Native Hawaiian people through the passage of both U. S. Public Law 103-150 and Hawaii State law, Act 359. So they, they've both done that. Okay? I need for the county councils now to step forward. . .and to begin that process. This Council acknowledges that U. S. Public Law 103-150--Section 6, sorry guys--and Act 359 that were passed in the year 1993, and since then no remedy or solution has progressed or matured. . .on behalf of the U. S. government and the State of Hawaii government. So what that basically says is we, the kanaka who had adhered to the effort that both the United States and the State of Hawaii, yeah, had. . .I guess you could say, activated, but did not act upon, yeah, find ourselves in this disadvantageous situation when we fulfilled the obligation within that laws. And this is how we end up in our situation. Okay? Section 7, this Council acknowledges that the County of Maui government officials and officers have received numerous human right violations for oppressive and suppressive actions against Native Hawaiians. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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. . . That is pretty cut and dried. I believe. . .our Councilmember, Mr. Nishiki and Mr. Sol Kaho`ohalahala, you have not received prior human right violations, prior to what I believe other Members have also received and other government officials have already received. So all I'm saying is, is that Section 7 is that you, you do acknowledge the fact that you've received these human right violations, because it's...to me it's important. Because by acknowledging now you actually stating to us, the community, that this has to be addressed. 'Cause if you not going acknowledge this and you going just walk away and, and think that it hasn't happened, how we going be able to fix or remedy the problem? Which is why Section 7 is put there. Okay?
. . . Section 8. . .it really focuses. . .yeah, on a future problem. . .that's actually occurring in the present.
. . . That's what's happening. Okay? What, what it says to you is to avoid receiving human right violations, Maui County government officials shall set a moratorium on all oppressive and suppressive actions against the Native Hawaiian people.
. . . I don't think that is an unreasonable request.
. . . I really don't think so.
. . . And I do believe. . .that. . .you're not recognizing the reinstated Hawaiian government, there's no mention about that. And I believe in our discussions on the original bill, yeah, the older bill--we get limu already, yeah--I did mention in there that you needed to recognize the reinstated Hawaiian Kingdom or the reinstated Hawaiian government. I specifically wrote that in there, of which in our discussions with Mr. Moto, I used expert. . legal. . .opinions to try to reshape this so that it could be acceptable.
. . . Section 9, this Council acknowledges that the passage of said revised Ordinance No. 09-237, shall temporarily protect all County government officials and employees from receiving human rights violations for the duration of the moratorium. Why? You know, this is the bridge that I was talking about. Who's gonna help us rectify our indifferences, our problems?
. . . It's got to be us, it's got to be us. Okay? 'Cause as you can see. . .a lot of time and effort has been put into where we situated today, a lot of thought has been put into it. In fact if you look into the original ordinance, right, I told you the truth, I told you that we are who we know we are. We're the principals owners of the Hawaiian government lands, of the Crown Lands we have jurisdiction over. Okay? But...right, I, like I said, I acknowledged the fact that you have a Corporate [ ] Counsel who has provided, you know, legal advice, but still how you going remedy this problem? Now it's not a problem or a tool that I'm trying to use against you, no, just the opposite. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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. . . Yeah? It's an action there, by law, again, international law--of which I'm so happy to have here with me, Mahealani. . .I'm serious, you know, who knows a lot about human right laws, okay, to relay to you guys that there is a critical situation here. And it needs to be addressed with critical thinking in order to arrive at remedy. Now I can tell you that in, in our audience, we have members of the law enforcement who's sitting here and who has attended every one of our meetings, and the reason why they're here is because they're the ones doing the oppressing, not the lawmakers.
. . . They need the lawmakers to assist them so that they don't get violations.
. . . I think it's a simple task, it's not as great as what people, you know, as what I had first put forth to you. But like I said, I think you needed to understand, yeah, who we are, why we possess these rights, and what rights I was talking about. That was in the old ordinance, of which, right, sometimes you cannot take one stride when you should take a little step. And this is what I see. I see that in this revised amendment, yeah, it's a step forward. Okay? If you was to put this side by side and look at it, again, I, I can tell you right now there are kanakas that aren't too happy with the revised edition. They really support the older edition, and they're very proud of what we stepped forward with. But, you know. . .as we continue, yeah, this interaction, it's important that we also learn that transition, something that I talked about, yeah, in our presentation--that we initiated, we initiated the transition of government powers. We did. . .not you. We did. So it's already in motion. It, it, it's a document, okay, we, we got it done correctly. There's processes involved when you're trying to reclaim a nation, you actually gotta go through all of these steps. You know? And these are some of the things that I--that I do understand that our own kanaka people don't understand. They don't know that those steps exist, like how you bounded [sic] to following procedures, policies. The point that I'm trying to make with this amendment—listen. . .one, is that there is activity going on, okay, that I believe can be remedied, okay, without having pressure put upon this Council, this entire government body and their employees or officials. I also believe that that's a responsibility that every one of you have--and that is to care for these employees. Okay? The second thing, I truly believe that this is not an illegal document.
. . . That it's doable. Okay? I did speak with my fellow colleague here, you know. She defmitely had some, you know, thoughts on this and she shared it with me, and I told her, you know, that's the reason why we're here. Okay? We beginning the steps, and with your manao I believe like how you gotta take one step at a time, I'm hoping that we going to be able to take these steps, too. Okay? So I hope that I had explained what was there.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Noa.
VICE-CHAIR MATEO: Thank you . . . (inaudible).. .
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Chair? Okay. We're moving on to Member Johnson. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COU CI MEM E O SO : d, d d M b r h v n th r t n ?
COU CI MEM E AISA: I ll d f r.
COU CI MEM E O SO : On f th th n th t, n , I, I, I l t th rd n n , t , nd f r . . . r d t rt n th n . And r n ll h d t rt d t th r l t n h h rd n l , n , n t d, d n t h v th f r nd ff t f l . h , th framing r th nd nt th t v pr nt d, p rt n f t r ll n th f r t f h t ld rd n r l b r l t n th t acknowledge rt n th n nd th n th " h r " ll nd th p r nt t t p pl . S th t , I, I nd r t nd th t. t I th n . . . n th l t. . .S t n 8 nd
M . OA: Uh h h.
COU CI MEM E O SO : th r th p n nt , Mr. , th t I th , th ll d rd n n , th n th t ld v r r nt pr v l , r ht, h n l , r x pt rt n nd v d l fr rt n l . S th r th p n nt h r I . . . t l ttl , t l ttl b t d ff r nt, n , fr th r nd r r fr th ...I , th f r t p rt I ld l t j t f t n
M . . OA: Uh h h.
COU CI MEM E O SO : f r l n t t n rd n n . And th n 8 nd , I ld l t t l l l r f t n r l l t n th t ld have th f r nd ff t f l . And, nd b I j t d th t l nd f th t n th t M b r h d, h d p d t C rp r t n C n l, I th n n f th f r t th n h v t d h n n d r n rd n n f n nd, t h t b . . . ppr v d t f r nd l l t . W h v t nd r t nd h t th p r t r r f th l , h t r r ht r . . . h t, h t th t ld b , h th ld b nf r d. n l th t p t n r b , t n t nn d n d nl t bl t b th r nf r d, r th r th b d th t h r th th r nf r n r v n n , n n nf r nt, h ll th t t pl . And th n f th r v l t n, h t ld b th p n lt f r h v l t n. Unf rt n t l b r th n th t th l , n , nd f h t r n t d th t t v d p n lt . . .(laughter). . . n r p rt, h r you ld b nf r n th n n us, that th n th t I ld n d d n n. rd n r l . . . ll ttl l t t n n th t ld pr v nt fr nt r n nt f rth r l b l t , ld h v l nd ttl nt , th r ld b t d l th th t. t th l t p rt h r ...I th n th t h r n d t h v b tt r nd r t nd n b th th r l l r ht , h th t ld ppl . f I nd r t nd th th t th p n nt r d n , t l you ld th n t rt n t n n t us f fail. S t l t th h r v n nf r nt p r t n th r nt t . Y ld b th v r n nt t . That's h r t t l ttl l d f r , b th t v r n l h r ld v r, n th nd f n rd n n , ld th t. S . . . nd I h p COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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understand that this is new territory for us, as well as it is for you. I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to take to heart some of the things that we. . .we spoke about last time in the format. But I would be looking, then, and I would be wanting either the Chair or even the future Council or Corporation Counsel in some format to address the framework to help guide us. And then also, it would almost be...I think it would be similar to where we would impose our own penalty on ourselves--you know, that you...I don't know if we can give that authority, legally, to another entity. That's where I would need guidance from Corporation Counsel as to what the ramifications are if we fail or anybody else. . .that. . .if we pass a law, if anybody fails, what is the punishment, what is the recourse, what are their legal obligations. So that's just my take on what we've got so far. But I do appreciate what you're saying. I think it helps to better frame it in my mind, and even though I will not be a Council Member beyond January 2nd . . .(laughter). . . of 2012 [sic], and in all likelihood I will not be the one ruling on this particular measure, I think that it behooves all of us that live here in this community to better understand. . .the wrong that was done to the Hawaiian people. Acknowledge it, because other bodies have already acknowledged that, and just come to some kind of a. . .a mutually agreeable way of managing. You know, so that we have our jurisdiction, you have your jurisdiction, and that we are not stepping on one another's toes continuously. 'Cause I don't think that's productive.
MR. H. NOA: I appreciate, yeah, I appreciate your manao on that, okay, especially the part on how to reframe this, you know, and to go seek...yeah, I guess it would be a responsibility for Corporate [sic] Counsel. . .perhaps. . .get legal assistance. Because we, we do have. . .legal assistance, okay, that assists us. Okay? So that would make it easier to arrive or on, I guess you could say, finally framing this --
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Uh-huh.
MR. H. NOA: --this ordinance correctly. So I kind of...I really appreciate --
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Yeah.
MR. H. NOA: --what you've shared..
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: No, and --
MR. H. NOA: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: --and I share that with you because when you were reiterating what your process is, which of course I totally respect, that is kind of...we, we live in two different worlds, and yet I think we live on the same island community.
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: And we really have to respect the, the different approaches and, you know, the, the rights --
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: --of the Hawaiian people, as well as what the governing body now that, you know, as you said earlier, we've not been the ones that were party to the original action but we're [sic] inherited this.
MR. H. NOA: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: So how do we come to agreeable terms and peacefully respect one another's rights, but then coexist in a way that doesn't create problems for each separate entity. So I thank you for this, Mr. Noa, and all the participants in the panel.
MR. H. NOA: Was interesting, before I entered, yeah. . .my colleague Mahealani did, you know, did share with me that she was really interested, you know, in looking at how we may be able to construct this, yeah, to have a lot, you know, a lot more. . .enforcement of law set into the document. Okay? And perhaps I can have her share with you that part.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Sure.
MR. H. NOA: Okay?
CHAIR MOLINA: All right.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Mahalo. I have a question though first of all to the Committee. Does today's date stand as "date of introduction" of the amendment?
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: . . . I, I'm not the attorney, but this is, this is up for consideration in Committee. So it wouldn't be fonnally...the formal action would take place when we actually have an ordinance, a draft...or, or a draft ordinance that has been signed off on. . .usually by Corporation Counsel as to form and legality. This is not in that form, so it can't be, in my opinion--and the Chair can correct me and Corporation Counsel can correct me if I'm wrong. But because it's not in that, in that format for us to actually accept it as a legitimate ordinance that we would consider passing. . .before it leaves Committee it has to be in that proper format. So when it comes out of Committee, the legal action would then...because the Committee would make a recommendation, that would then go to the full Council. That would be what would be first reading.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: So that is the point at which I would deem it to be okay, it's officially being turned over to the Council on a specific date for action either up, down, COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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you know, or amend, whatever. So that's, that's our little, you know, quick and dirty . . . (laughter). . . summary of how we handle things, usually, at the Council level.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Procedure.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Yeah, procedure.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Thank you. Yeah. There are some points that are excellent and. . .absolutely focus on and also display steps being taken toward a positive goal and objective.
. . . I would be happy to work with the Committee and panel and the creators of this document to. . .nail down specifics, such as what is avoidance.. .
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Uh-huh.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: . . . specifics such as what are human rights violations; what constitutes the violations; and what reach, if any, would the Committee and vice versa have as far as jurisdiction and enforcement. Understanding enforcement under international law takes a wide. . .broad spectrum. You know, indigenous cultures who have not constituted themselves to constitutional nation states, who have constituted themselves, you know uniquely we possessed royal patented rights aole palapala . . . (Hawaiian). . . and these court certificates of titles to estates. . .absolutely are affected by the decisions that this Committee makes And so that. . .I would be able to offer more expansion on the, the language and more specific detail into the draft, and I would be very happy to work with all parties on this. Like I said, it's an, an absolutely wonderful step forward.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: I, I appreciate that, Mahealani, 'cause I know you've also participated along . . . (laughter). . . with the Kamaunu's, you know, for, for quite a while, you know, and Mr. Noa, you know, Prime Minister. You've all...you know, and, and. . .God rest his soul, Mr. Tanaka . . . (laughter). . . you know, James T. Tanaka, you know, he passed years ago, but that was where I got my initial education on many of the Hawaiian issues. And, you know, coming from his perspective I think I gained a great deal of understanding and respect for that. So I look forward to that. I think that one thing that may be helpful, too, is when you look at other ordinances, just simply go onto the internet and look at the framing of ordinances that would fall, maybe, within the spectrum of this kind of an ordinance.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Then look at how they're framed, look at the different components, you know, the. . .the definitions, all the things that you mentioned. There's a certain format that those come into, and then that way it will help you to better frame some of the language, too, that you could assist--you know, should the next Council, you know, be able to take this up as an actual ordinance. But I, I want to thank you very much, and I really appreciate you, Mr. Chair, giving me -- COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: --the extra time.
CHAIR MOLINA: Member Johnson, if, if you'll indulge, Mr. Kamaunu's been waiting patiently.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Oh, yes.
CHAIR MOLINA: He wanted to give some comment on your inquiry.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Kamaunu?
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Oh, kala mai. Before I hand over the mic . . .
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: . . .(laughter). . .
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: . . . with grace . . . (laughter). . . yeah, I'm honored to do my part and kokua in this inevitable path to independence. I just wanted to mention that America.gov carried an article on November 5 th on a side event in the Universal Periodic Review of the United States human rights violations. And the society, Civil Society Unit did take up the, the direct question and issue of independence. And so it is on the floor, and there are people talking about it who are in higher levels and have a deeper understanding. And it is a consensus on the international level that it must start here. And opening up the dialogue is wonderful and everything; we're having a discussion. I'm just concerned with. . .will this be on the record and will it be transferred through procedure to the incoming Members? And will we have a date before leaving today?
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: And, and I believe that Chair Molina. . .because this is in his Committee, he would certainly ensure that that would be sent forward to the future Council. And then they would, as a new Council, set whatever agenda and hearing dates. But you would be on the list for notification.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you --
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: --Mr. Chair. Aloha.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Ms. Ventura. Mr. Kamaunu, if your...your manao? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MR. KAMAUNU: . . . Mahalo. Just referring to what's been spoken about--not specifically the, the ordinance that is, or amendments to the ordinance, but in, to support what he is already saying. You know my wife and I have been coming, basically, about rights and the violation of those rights. . .through some of the. . .things that have been going on, especially the development. You know, we look at the laws of. . .of the State of Hawaii. HRS 7-1 already affirms the claim from 1859, which is from the Kingdom law. It, it quotes that law exactly, stating our rights as people. Distinctively as far as we talk about some of the rights that are being violated just here on Maui, we see all these gateways coming up, people putting private property on areas that we as, as people have used for years to get to be able to exercise our rights of gathering, as it is so called, rights that are inherited from our kupuna. And being that our culture depends on being able to cultivate those rights or to use them, you know, what he's stating here basically and it's pretty much in 103-150 that we still have these rights. The State of Hawaii, if you're looking at Sections 8. . .now, State of Hawaii already recognizes us, HRS 7-1, it recognizes us in HRS 172-C, I believe. So these are specific rights given us already. So. . .and these derived, and when you look in parenthesis on the bottom, they derive exactly from the Kingdom law. So when we're being violated for trespassing on grounds that our ancestors have used to be able to traverse throughout the ahupuaas--for us to be able to fish, to hunt--these are violations that we readily talking about, where foreigners can come in and take away our rights to be able to exercise our culture. You know I mean. . .I been, I feel that I've been robbed. I cannot speak, I cannot olelo. And you don't understand how important it is to me when I see others who not even of my nationality being able to olelo.
. . . And then to be able to understand everything that my kupunas went put down because I cannot relate. . .that's a hindrance, that's a right I lost. We look at my place in Waihee-- and I talked about this. We have someone that's claiming land, and the only road for us to get and traverse back to our watershed, going back in to be able to get into the mountain, he's put a gate. Not only that, he's charging people to go up to that area to use, and he has been giving natives a hard time to be able to get up there. You know, and these are some of the things we're talking about, these are, these are things that are happening in our neighborhood. We have certain rights already governed to us from the Kingdom, transferred over to State law that are recognized--water rights, right of ways, being able to have the. . .the access. And we know PASH is one of the laws that been passed. The Federal government understands its relationship to us, but they gave that responsibility or fiduciary responsibility to the states. The states have given it. . .that. . .those responsibilities to you as the County Council to be able to uphold so that we can live. Without these rights, we cannot live, we cannot be who we are. We are being asked to change, as was said, our identity. We are being asked to give up our past. Look at all the graves that are being removed. All these people being removed, all of them taken away. Our past is being erased. Our culture is being erased. When those, when those bulldozers come in, even though there is a law from 1860 protecting those burial sites, it is the developers' rights that come into play because they putting cash down. And we look at that being more important than the race culture, we talk about the race culture, but truly our culture is being erased every single day when you look in the paper. The COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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d v l p nt th t nd tr v r n r r t h r , l n t f pl th t nd l , n r r lt r . nd p pl n n f r th n t t p fr b n bl t x r r ht th t r G d v n r ht fr r p n . . . r r lt r . S th r th th n nd I pp rt h t nr , t l n b t. W tt t p t b f r t t ll r d. And p pl d n t nd r t nd th t. Y n , th th n th t r j t r n . W are b ll th t l ft. . . nd f we d n t p, f d n t t th pp rt n t t h r t d nd h r r n . . . r v r t h v th t pp rt n t , f rth r nd f rth r h n l , I d n t n f v v r n th t Everlasting Story, t nl l t , h ? h h t r . h t r t ld v r nd v r n. I nn t l l . Wh t t r I n t t ll h ldr n. . . n p pl ? I d n t h v th t. S h n d th r n t p? Wh n d t. . . t ? M h l .
C AI MO I A: h n , Mr. K n . M b r
MS. KAMAU U: I nn p th b
C AI MO I A: Oh. Oh.
M . KAMAU U: Oh, I rr .
C AI MO I A: Oh, I rr . G h d. n d t , nt d t th n ? Oh, pl , h d.
MS. KAMAU U: I r t r nn n t, nd I...
NOTE: . . .(cellphone ringing).. .
COU CI MEM E O SO : . . . (laughter). . . ht b .
COU CI MEM E AISA: . . . (laughter).. .
MS. KAMAU U: . . . O , th t n t ph n .
COU CI MEM E O SO : .
MS. KAMAU U: I tt n h r l n t th nd . I n th nd . . .(laughter). . . And h v v f th r d t th r , nd I r b r n t h n th t r d n f r . And th r h v b n n t n th l t f v , x r th t th t r d h b rn d. And I v r l z d th t before th n, d dn t h v th t h pp n. S th n h n d n th r r p rt nt r p nd t f r . Irr rdl [sic] h t h b n h pp n n th t th t nt l th f r r r l b rn t lf t b f r t, th n. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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. . . I feel like the situation we're facing, that Henry's bringing to your attention now, is like that fire. We're the forest. . .and this fire is overtaking this forest. Now after the last fire up in that mountains, it went all the way to Lahaina. . .all the way back into the mountains where people had never gone before. And then what were we left with?
. . . And that's the situation we're faced with right now. I give Henry credit for bringing this forward. Unfortunate, the decision isn't ours to make It's yours. And what's even more unfortunate is that there's so many of us that don't understand the knowledge that's contained right here in this panel. And how can anybody make an informed decision, how can we be critical thinkers if we're missing a vital part of the decision-making process? The knowledge, the information, it's not there. It's there if you wanna look for it. But look how long it's taken me to come to the small bit of knowledge that I have. That's what's real unfortunate. Even with what my husband is saying, when that fire finished, how many acres of forest land was bare?
. . . That's what we're hoping to avoid, and I'm sure that's what Henry is trying to avoid by moving forward. . .a measure like this. Maybe it's not in the right format, but he certainly has the right idea in mind--that we need to do something. If anything, I would like to see this Council decide. . .is to see how they can help him move forward in that direction. And if not him, help...I won't say "Hawaiians", because this is not a Hawaiian issue. I would, at least for Maui, say that you would help all of Maui come to an understanding of what's at risk here, what has happened in our history, and that we cannot let another forest fire rage in our forest. We have to do something. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kamanu [sic]. Members, the Chair is aware of the time, I know it's been a very interesting discussion and how one hour can sure fly, yeah. I'd like to ask for just a brief recess to confer with the Members. Members, just stand by. Meeting in recess. . . .(gavel). . .
ECESS: 2:2 p. .
ECO E E: 2:2 p. .
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(gavel). . . The Committee of the Whole meeting for November 18th, 2010 is now back in session. It is 25 minutes after the hour of 12 o'clock. Members, I indicated earlier, at the start of the meeting, about the possibility of a recess, and being that, you know, this has been certainly a very interesting discussion, and I want to give each Member an opportunity to ask questions or give comment on the proposed bill. I've talked to Member Johnson who has an Economic Development meeting at 1:30 here in the Chambers, and she's indicated to me, Member Johnson, that we can...you can probably conclude business by 2 o'clock?
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: Yes. In fact, if we begin promptly at 1:30, I just only have two measures and they're basically ministerial, they should not take very long, you know, because they're...that's the last Committee meeting that I have in my Committee. And
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the rest of the stuff, I will be dealing with later. So it should not be--they're not controversial items or anything of that sort.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Member Johnson. So we'll go with that. Mr. Medeiros?
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mr. Chairman, have you polled the panelists if they're gonna be available --
CHAIR MOLINA: Well, let me ask.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: -- at 2 o'clock?
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Noa, Ms. Ventura, and Mr. and Ms. Kamanu [sic], can you come back at, say, 2 o'clock to continue the discussion?
MS. KAMAUNU: Yes, we can.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Yes.
CHAIR MOLINA: Very good. Okay. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Thanks.
CHAIR MOLINA: I, I do want to give each Council Member an opportunity to ask questions, so very good. So, Members, we will stand in recess until 2 o'clock today. I do have Members that may have to leave by 3:00, so at least if we can go up until to at least an additional hour. So, Members, I do realize you have other commitments, but thank you for making yourselves available to come back at 2 o'clock today. So this Committee of the Whole meeting for November 18 th, 2010 is now in recess, and, Members, we will reconvene at 2:00 p.m. . . . (gavel).. .
RECESS: 2:2 p. .
ECO E E: 2:0 p. .
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . (gavel). . . The November 18th, 2010 Committee of the Whole meeting is now reconvened. It is five minutes after the hour of 2 o'clock. Members, thank you for being here. We will spend at least up until 3 o'clock--we will be losing quorum at that time--to continue our panel discussion as it relates to Committee of the Whole Item 24, Reinstatement of the Hawaiian Kingdom. When we last left off, Mr. Kaho`ohalahala was here and Mr. Medeiros, but they are not here. So the Chair, at this point, will recognize Mr. Nishiki for questions to the panelists. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Yeah. Thank you. Just, just a statement just because prior to taking a recess, Sol was gonna work on perhaps some language to. . .perhaps help. But I, I, I wanna be more honest about it. You know, it's like so often people sweet talk Native Hawaiians into saying that this is what we're gonna do or that is what we're gonna do. And we've heard some Members today perhaps give them hope, Mr. Chairman. When I was reading the revised ordinance submitted to us...and, and in talking to Nelson, he did say that it was given to Corporation Counsel. As to why they don't have it? I don't know, but that's neither here nor there, it's just something that occurred. It seems like on a Federal level and on a State level, we've acknowledged. . .things that we've done against this native people. On a County level, when I read from what you're asking, Mr. Noa. . .and then again I read with some interest your...the communication to this Committee from Daniel Hempey, cover letter dated 11/16/08. In it, the last paragraph. . .and, and, and even before then they talk about giving Kahoolawe back to the native people. And, and, and, and, and, and I would be the first to be the embarrassed one, and obviously perhaps because when we did get money from Congress to clean the ordinance [sic], we find that 20 percent of what the United States and also the other foreign nations that participated in the bombing, we find that that area is still unusable. So again, false promises based on them now given, be given something that is unusable. How embarrassing, you know, as I sit here in this position. And that's mentioned in here by Mr. Hempey. The, the, the final one. . .I guess is in the last paragraph--and I don't know if this represents what you people are asking, the little that maybe we can do in Maui County until we find out from our Corporation Counsel what actually we can do. But they are asking in here, it says: the reinstated Hawaiian government is legitimately seeking through peaceful civil action to move Hawaii towards this goal of a recognized, quote, sovereign Native Hawaiian entity, end of quote. The County can do its part in supporting this State and Federal mandated goal by allowing some use of land or relax permitting for requirements for fundraising. My clients are hopeful that the County of Maui will exercise a leadership role in this important matter. Why I say this is I'm sure that in them having to hire attorneys. . .to pursue what they need to do--because it doesn't seem like the State or the Federal or even this County is giving any Native Hawaiian group the ability to pursue this process--that maybe this is a way that we can work with them if the fact is, is that they need money also to pay their attorneys to pursue what they need to pursue. I think that's just "crumbs" as far as, probably, many of us feel. But if that is something that we can legitimately do for you right away. . sight away, you know? We talk about an, an ordinance that was brought up about being not perfect, Mr. Chairman, and, and we don't even know if what is being asked in this ordinance. . .when we get a ruling from the Corporation Counsel, is something that we can, as a County, do. But I think in this last paragraph, I think that is something that we can do to help them in, in, in advancing what they may want to pursue. Under Section 8 of this ordinance. . .is where, I think, the scary part is. It says: to avoid receiving human rights violations, Maui County government officials shall set a moratorium on all oppressive and suppressive actions against Native Hawaiian people. And, and I'm sure that that is something that you ideally want us to give you. And, and, and without Corporation Counsel again, Mr. Chairman, giving us some legal advice, I don't know what that language represents. But let me ask Henry this question first. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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. . . Did you write this section and what did you hope to achieve by this language in, in. . .what you, as a Native Hawaiian, does here in Maui County as you breathe, drive, think, whatever? What, what, what, what is something that you, as you live here, hope to get if this language represents something?
MR. H. NOA: I think the, the language represents, yeah, that we have rights, okay, based upon our reestablishment of our government. And in our government process, we have actually established specific laws to how we going exercise these rights. And this has already been established. Okay? What rights do I talk about? Obviously as, as a government, the right to reclaim lands that belong to us as a government. As an individual, national in our country, the right to traverse, the right to travel. Okay? Is that farfetched? No. In fact today, the Federal government recognizes Indians', tribes' right to their properties, right to usage, and right to travel. Okay? The difference between us and one Indian tribe is that our land base is the entire archipelago. So there is no separation. There can only be agreements of which this is where it would come back again. That's why I saying this would at least set the moratorium. The moratorium, now, would open up and establish more clear discussions on what we can, yeah, by right, execute, okay, and how these. . .how would you say. . .the difference in interpretation of what our rights is and what you believe your rights are as the existing de facto government can be negotiated. Okay? And this is why I, I, I no think that I'm trying to...I guess the word to me was "scare" or trying to put pressure onto you. No. The reality is that's what we existing with now. So how can we get help. . .okay, by executing what we properly possess. And this is why we brought this to you--saying listen, you can help us now. And that is...I, I don't still don't believe that is not doable. It is doable. Because you basically is saying, okay. . .we, we need to understand how we going address these individual violations that taking place or, or has occurred. Obviously, we going have to sit down and discuss this. Yeah? And that's what I meant. You know? Now. . .what's. . .I think more important is the fact that it's already occurring. You see what I'm saying? Two years ago when I forwarded the...I actually served notice through a letter, served them the legal notice, letting them know that this is what we going proceed to. Like I said, you guys got elected after that was done, you came into office, but that was served. And then in the letter, we basically stated, listen, we need to get together. I was asking for that, for this meeting years ago. We need to come together so we can understand how we can bridge, yeah, these, these developments that, that we talking about. Because we know what we want. Okay? I mean I want, I want what rightfully belongs to me as an inheritance, my identity. It's my identity that I want. Okay? That we, you need to understand that, you know. I don't have the renown of nationality, I don't have that pride like how I see some of you have that in America. And I respect that, I respect every. . .citizen who believes in their country. Then how come we cannot we receive that? And this is why I really got involved. So after fulfilling all the obligations to bring this nation forward as--like I said, there are requirements under international law that once recognized nations, once recognized, okay, and no longer exists, they t ll exist. It's just a matter of time before they reorganize themselves and reestablish that existence. So a moratorium, yeah, that I'm COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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sharing, that, that I bringing forward is, hey, I think a moratorium is necessary right now so that we can get serious in this discussions. We will know that you willing to make this attempt, you willing to rectify the problem. Okay? Because without that step, right, like how you saying. . .we just singing lullabies back to each other. And, you know, I, I, I, I dislike the fact that, you know, to think about us being mislead, yeah, and not treated properly, you know, it, it actually puts a--how would you say--a taste, yeah, in your thoughts. . .not in my mouth but in my thoughts, that I'm thinking like wow, they doing this on purpose? You know, they not being straightforward, 'cause remember earlier when I said, I know that I submitted the nine. . .what I call, revised, which I calling, you know, the amended. I know I submitted that. I know we gave it to. . .Comorate [sic] Counsel. Okay? Right now I just can't, I told you, I cannot pull the document out to prove that we did that. Now imagine if you had received it, this would have been on one different plane than it is right now. But I still believe that you still have this responsibility. You have this capability to assist us in making this happen.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Yeah--
MR. H. NOA: And I, like I said, when I say to you "to avoid", it's because you've already received; otherwise I wouldn't have put that language in there. You know what I mean? I not trying to threaten you. I just trying to say that, you know what, how else you supposed to. . .prevent our nationals from being afflicted by. . .law enforcement, especially on the County level? And this is why this is presented to you, that this is doable. I hope I addressed your question.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Yeah. Yeah. And, Mr. Chairman, you know, you know, the, again, you know, the "Apology Act" again, you know, okay, so then we say we're sorry. Okay. But then it doesn't...from then it doesn't go and that's why they're trying to push now, "what, what do you mean by that?". You know? And, and again they, they have to shoulder it now, because the leaders then say, well, we're gonna give you this and we're gonna do that, and we're gonna do that. They got nothing but an apology. Okay, so that's just that. Okay? The other has to do with . . .
. . . 359, and, and, and, and I, I, I think that's the one that was passed by the, the State Legislature. Okay, but that in itself, perhaps--and I don't know if it's true and correct me if I'm wrong--that created maybe a thing called OHA or whatever. Okay? But that's not what everybody else supports, but that's something. And, and, and, and again you're still controlled by Uncle Tom, you know, the Legislature in, in, in going, okay, you better be nice or otherwise we ain't going give you the money. So, you know, they're still...you guys, native people still have your eyes on it, because if you don't listen then we're not going give you funding and we gonna stop it. So that's, that's that. But in here in this last paragraph it says--and I'm just looking for what the, the Council can do now. They, they're asking perhaps and, and maybe this is small until we find out and, and Sol said he has some idea. But if they're saying that...and, and tell me if this is something that you guys could use--if there is land here that you could use to, to, to do fundraiser--and that's like I said crumbs, smaller than crumbs, but that at least is something that we can perhaps COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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immediately do for them,--then let them do this if they are being stymied in some way from jumping on some of the land that they feel they can use right now. I know I've seen you guys go down the, a park in Kihei and then one here where the MEO building is or something like that. But, you know, I don't know if . .government authorities are also stymieing you people. Can you, can you give me an idea of that is what is occurring --
CHAIR MOLINA: Mr. Noa?
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: --as we see you mature?
MR. H. NOA: There's been some--
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: . . .(inaudible). . .
MR. H. NOA: There's been some good relationships that's been developing between our existing government process, our government officials and current County government employees and officers. Particularly I gotta commend Maui Police Department, you know. They've actually assigned, yeah, an individual to be our liaison, and this has, this has occurred like four, five years ago. And in the process, yeah, what they, what they began to realize is we're not there to break the law, we're there to open up this dialogue, this, this communication and to try to educate them that the law permits this type of activity. When you say that in your law we can proceed to build a nation, a sovereign nation of our own choosing, what clearer description do we need? So that's what we did. Now in the process, what does a sovereign nation has a right to do? It has a right to exercise certain aspects that belong to that. Now obviously, it's real obvious to me that the larger picture of this is gonna take place, you know, at the highest levels, but here at this level, right, there's activities going on that I truly believe that the Council can at least...like I said, if you cannot address the issue, yeah, through your, your political. . .how would you say, your political authority, okay, that you can't fix it in its entirety, it's whole, I believe that you should take a position toward it. And that's what the moratorium is about. You're not taking, you're not saying that we can do this, do that. What we saying is you saying that you know what, we need to get a lot more involved with what we're doing. And, and that's the only way I could see this happening. Okay? From submitting the, the, the original to this--can't you guys see the change that, that we took place, we actually taking that position from the first submittal that we did? And, and I don't think you can say to me that we're, we didn't listen. We did. We went back, we sat down and said okay, listen, this is what presented, so this is what we should come back. And if that's the only issue. . .which I truly believe is not one issue, it's actually a remedy. And that's what we should look at--is how can this be a serious remedy. Okay? A method.
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: Well, you know, in the essence of that last paragraph, if that is something that we can do, because . . . (inaudible). . . you guys to fundraiser or whatever you guys...and I, I know you guys need money to hire attorneys and . . .(inaudible). . . But I have to admit that I am not the most knowledgeable. And I think Sol said that he COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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may have an ability to help us, so I'd like to listen to Mr. Kaho`ohalahala. Anyway, thank you so much.
MR. H. NOA: Thank you for your questions.
CHAIR MOLINA: All right. Thank you, Mr. Nishiki.
MR. H. NOA: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Before I recognize Mr. Kaho`ohalahala, Mr. Pontanilla?
COUNCILMEMBER PONTANILLA: Thank you, Chairman. You know, I was. . .taking a look at Section 8, and I think Mr. Prime Minister Noa had pretty much explained why the language as such. And I, I reviewed both documents, the original and this amendment, and there's big differences, almost completely d ff r nt. And I appreciate that. But my interest is, you know, like Ms. Ventura had said, in regards to providing us with information regarding the human rights violation, I think that is very important for me. And, you know, I gotta tell you this, though, that I'm not too familiar with your...well, with the U.S. Public Law 103 to 150 [sic]. I, I need to review that to get a better knowledge of what you're saying; and also the Hawaii State law, Act 359. If these laws are saying what you say, then it's already recognized, and the only recognition is this local government. So gonna be awaiting the review by Corporation Counsel, once they get ahold of this, and have them provide us with some guidance in, in how we should move forward, if we should move forward on this particular amended ordinance that you have provided all of us this afternoon or this morning. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr.--
COUNCILMEMBER PONTANILLA: So there's no questions.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Pontanilla.
MR. H. NOA: Mahalo.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Members, before I recognize Mr. Kaho`ohalahala, I should have mentioned this for the record--Mr. Victorino, who was here earlier with us today, left. . .before lunch, the traditional lunch hour, and he did indicate to us he will not be able to return for the rest of this recess. So I just wanted to state that for the record. Mr. Kaho`ohalahala?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Thank you, Chair. You know, while the discussion's been going on, my, my mind has been trying to spin and figure out, you know, what it is we're trying to accomplish today. And I, I did have a chance to talk to Mr. Noa about some of the suggested ideas, and I just wanna make a couple clarifications just so we don't get off track. Hawaii Revised Statute Act 359 was passed in 1993, and COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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that was after the 100th year commemoration of the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. And that Act was to set aside, the Legislature found it necessary to set aside support to allow the Hawaiian people to decide on what form of governance they would choose on their own. So the Act was to allow that to happen. I was privileged and appointed by Governor Waihee to serve on that, that commission. And in fact one of the testifiers today--and, Henry, you, you've made note of that--that one of the documents that was being cited there comes from the result of that commission. So that was already done by the State Legislature. The other is U. S. Public Law 103-150. As a beginning document . . .(laughter). . . you know, all of us should at least understand what that law says, because it was finally after 100 years that the Congress of the United States recognized the acts that the United States had been involved with that helped to facilitate the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom through its Minister Plenipotentiary Stevens. And so that document really is the Congress of the United States listing, in fact, by bullet points all of the facts that surround the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom and acknowledges it. So that would be those two documents. So they are documents, I think, that everyone in Hawaii should at least come to understand and know. . .so that when we talk about these issues, if you don't have the basis for that kind of historic foundation or understanding, it's sometimes difficult to talk about simple things like enforcement of human rights . . . (laughter). . . violations. Because if we don't know where it all begins, then we don't know why we're taking action today on human rights issues. So...well, anyway. . .the only things that I would like to suggest and I wanted to clarify--and we did that earlier--that the, the amended document that was handed to us by Mr. Noa this morning is the document that we are dealing with it. And it has not had any review by the Corporation Counsel, as the previous one has had. So, so we just clear that we not going talk about the previous one, we're just talking about the one that was handed in today, because I think that's where I would like to help support and lead this. One is that just technically, and Member Johnson brought this up. . .the, the format. I don't think that we are talking about an "ordinance". So if we can put aside some of the, the technical titles and stuff, let's not call it an "ordinance", because it's, it's not an ordinance. And then the numbers that are being attached to this--and I, I talked to Henry about that--it was really the communication identification of this item. So let's scratch all of that. And if we can, what I tried to do in, in the break was tried to see if I could redraft something that might be a working document, and I only made myself a copy because I'm not sure how this body would like to, to deal with this, Chair. But I sort of redrafted it as a resolution.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Okay?
CHAIR MOLINA: All right--
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: And then I wanted to just talk about your proposed submittal. . .and what you're calling in here. . ."sections". I would like to just say that in, in what I've redrafted, I've simply used them as "whereases". Okay? And COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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then I listed some of the historical citings that you have, that we should all come to acknowledge, and that I think this, this body can acknowledge all of those things. So. . .there is some redundancy I think in, in yours, in that you make reference to Public Law 103-50 [sic], but you use it in almost three different of the bullets. So I'm trying to put them all together so that, so we're not saying the same thing three times. So I took some liberty to try and redraft some of that.
CHAIR MOLINA: Excuse me, Mr. Kaho`ohalahala?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah.
CHAIR MOLINA: Would like us...we could take a short break and have copies made for everyone to review your revision?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah. I, I--
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(inaudible). . .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --didn't know how you want it, but I, I just thought I would offer this as, maybe--
CHAIR MOLINA: . . .(inaudible). . .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --if we can look at something like this --
CHAIR MOLINA: Sure.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --then we might be on a better discussion in terms of where we want to go with this. And I hope that this will be something that you'll be able to comment on--because aside from putting it in another format, one of the things that I did add was in the area of human rights violations, I wanted to emphasize where those laws actually come from and place them in the document. So it's not something that we're, we're sort of guessing or trying to figure out about, but if we stated it in here as it has been stated at the. . .at the United Nations, then we're all on the same page, so to speak. And there are, are things that I think that this body can also act on.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: So, yeah.
CHAIR MOLINA: All right. We, we'll take a short recess, Members, to have Staff make copies.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Okay. Wait, one more question.
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C AI MO I A: M t n n r . . . .(gavel). . .
RECESS: 2: p. .
ECO E E: 2:4 p. .
C AI MO I A: . . .(gavel). . . h C tt f th Wh l t n f r h r d , v b r 8th, 20 0 n b n n. M b r , h v b n d tr b t d , I , n r l t n f r b M b r K h ` h l h l , t r l t t th pr p d nd nt fr th K n d f l l t n. Wh n l t l ft ff, h d M . nt r h nt d t nt. M . nt r , I ll t v nt n r p n t M b r K h ` h l h l . . . t n .
MS. E U A O I E : h n , Mr. Ch r Wh t I d d ... nt n d th t th r r tr t n th Un t d St t r nd t ll v rn r th t th C n l h d r v d l t . And th r nt n f th tr t
U I E I IE S EAKE : . . .(inaudible). . .
MS. E U A O I E : h h p f h t "v l t n " r . S th t ld b h lpf l t , n dd t n t pl nt th r l t n. M h l .
C AI MO I A: O . h n , M . nt r .
COU CI MEM E KA O O A A A A: O
C AI MO I A: Mr. K h ` h l h l ?
COU CI MEM E KA O`O A A A A: Y h. O . h n , Ch r. A n, I ff r th nl r n dr ft. . .th t n th n n h r n n xp t d t b th t , b t th t f ld l t th f r t, f r n , nd , th f r t nd th n n t l b t th , th b ll t p nt . S f I, f I n d n, I d d t ...I tr d t n rp r t r l n n h r h I ld. And f I n t t fr th t p, th f r t " h r " n f t, l t t th t tl . O ? h t tl , t , p n, b t h n I l t h t r d n r ll f d n, th t r tr n t t l t fr th b d , fr th C nt n l d th t nd r t nd th t bl 0 0 [sic] , d r l l . And, t , th t r . . . l n l d th t th r r , t th Un t d t n r th nt rn t n l l v l, th t th r r th r d l r t n r v n nt th t l d t nd r t nd h n r ht nd th t nn n l d th ll. And th n I th n th th n th t p n h r dd t n t th t tl t lf. S , ? S th t , th t n th t bl . S f l t th f r t " h r ", t : h r , d pt d n , th Un t d St t bl 0 0 r n z th nd n n p pl n v r d r tl r l n h d th r l t th r nh r nt v r nt p pl r v r th r n t n l l nd t th Un t d St t , th r thr h th r n r h r thr h pl b t r r f r nd . O ? h t ll t n fr COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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the Public Law, so I'm not making up any of this, this comes directly from the language of the law itself. So...but it just restates so that it's clear to us what some of the statements in the law are. The second "whereas" says: the United States Congress, on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893, acknowledge the historical significance of this event which resulted in the suppression of the inherent sovereignty of the Native Hawaiian people. This again comes from direct language from Public Law 103-150. Okay? So this is not. . .creative writing, this is just the law. Okay? And the third bullet: Whereas, the United States, through Public Law 103-150 expressed its commitment to acknowledge the ramifications of the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, in order to provide a proper foundation for reconciliation between the United States and the Native Hawaiian people. This, again, comes from the public law itself. Okay? Whereas, in 1993, the State of Hawaii passed into law Act 359 entitled, A Bill for an Act, Relating to Hawaiian Sovereignty. And we can actually take Act 359, and we can actually make other whereases to state further what the Act was intended to do. But this is just the, the beginning part of the State's involvement in this. Okay? And, again, as I said earlier, Act 359 was to allow for a commission on Hawaiian sovereignty to begin. . .of which 20 people in the State of Hawaii were invited or appointed by Governor Waihee to serve on this body. This commission worked for three years following their appointment; and I was, again, privileged to have been a member on, on that committee. This, the next "whereas" says: Section 2 of Act 359, states, The purpose of this bill is to recognize the unique status of the Native Hawaiian people bear to the State of Hawaii and to the United States and to facilitate the efforts of the Native Hawaiian people to be governed by an indigenous sovereign nation of their own choosing. This comes directly from the Act itself, so this is not my make-up language. Okay? The next "whereas" says--and this is where I wanted to add a little bit more emphasis because I think part of the issue we're discussing today has to deal with human rights violations, so this is where I'm, I'm trying to add some to. So here I'm trying to direct our attention to where I think human rights violations need to be directed--and that's at the international level. So, Whereas, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1, lays down the philosophy that. . .and I quote, All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in. . .in the spirit of brotherhood. I think there should be a "the" over there--in the spirit...oh, in spirit and brotherhood. That's correct. Again, this comes from that section of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The next "whereas" is to further emphasize that, and it says: the International Bill of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly, states, it is imperative that the members of the international community fulfill their solemn obligation to promote and encourage respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinctions of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political, or other opinions. And, whereas, the International Bill of Human Rights acknowledges the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states the common understanding that the people of the world. . .concerning the inalienable and inviolable rights of all members of the human family and constitutes an obligation for the members of the international community And, lastly, whereas, the International Covenant on Civil and and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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Rights, the Declaration--that should be "Declaration"--the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination as well as other conventions and declarations in the field of human rights adopted under the auspices of the United Nations, the specialized agencies and regional intergovernmental organizations have created new standards and obligations for which states should conform; now therefore, be it resolved that the County Council or the Council of the County of Maui recognizes the United States Public Law 103-150, the Hawaii Revised Statutes Act 359; and acknowledges the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Bill of Human Rights; and that these. So I was trying to help by steering, I think, the discussion in the right direction so that a document like this, that the Council has the ability to do, can be something that we would consider. And then at this point, you know, I wanted to put it to you and see what your thoughts are about it. And then for Mahealani, the last "whereas" tries to incorporate all of the, those sections that you are citing here, that has already been sent out, you know, to all the governors. . .state governors. So, you know?
NOTE: Silence.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Mr. Noa?
MR. H. NOA: First of all . . .
. . . First of all, I'd like to thank. . .Councilmember Sol Kaho' ohalahala for proposing, you know, a resolution in this form. And ...
. . . I. . .am uncertain. Okay? I, I agree that the language in here, I, I think, covers everything that we want it to say. Okay? The only uncertainty that I have is. . .do we address the problem that you guys are. . .actually experiencing? Does the, does the members, you know, of the government, existing government officials, you know what I mean? Are we able to at least address the, some form of remedy? Okay? And I, I do appreciate the language because it does, it does provide that--how would you say that?-- foundation. Okay, that what our bill is talking about, I'm...like I said, just my concern is, is there a way that we could try to, you know what I mean, become just a little bit more specific so that we can, again, you know, we can address the need that the amendment was brought forward. Everything that I believe Councilmember. . .Sol Kaho`ohalahala has presented, I, I...actually to tell you the truth, I will support. Okay? But that's the question that I present to you guys now--where, you know, how far does this assist in remedying the problem that we are existing? We have this problem. Okay? So help me out there so we can get over that hump.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Yeah--
MR. H. NOA: Because he's right and I, and I do appreciate everything that you've done. Okay? I'd just like to...just the title, I'd like to make sure, you know, that I put it's from Maui County--you know what I mean?--acknowledges, and let's be a little bit more specific in COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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the title. And I think everything else. . .other than adding to number three, yeah, you when put one, two, and number three on the back, be it resolved. . .that we add the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as number three. You see that on the back?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Uh-huh.
MR. H. NOA: You guys see that? Otherwise. . .Councilmember. . .Kaho`ohalahala, mahalo. I think that it's a very workable and doable. . .document.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah.
MR. H. NOA: And I thank you, okay, I thank you for making this possible.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you. Mr. Kaho' ohalahala?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah. I, I just wanna make comments on, you know, the, the part of the...your proposed resolution that. . .I was trying to help support is from Section 7, your Section 7, your Section 8, and then your Section 9. And it seems to me that these are the three sections you list that are making specific references to human rights violations.
MR. H. NOA: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: And. . .and in your number nine you, especially says that, that the Council acknowledges that the passage of said revised ordinance shall temporary protect all Maui County government officials and employees --
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --from receiving human rights violations. Okay. . .what I wanted to, to, to put out is that an acknowledgement of the fact that these human rights. . .covenances and bills are already in place is something that we should all know. And if we're not knowledgeable of that, then we, too, will be in violation of those kinds of treatments, for whatever they are. I was hoping that by making a positive statement --
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --to that, to that effect, that from this moment on we can at least say for this body that's seated here, that might be responsible for taking an action on this, that we can no longer. . .shield ourselves from ignorance.
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COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: And that hopefully what this sends a message to is that not only this Legislative body, but for the Administrative body of this government, of this County's political subdivision, that you are called or put on notice as well, that you should be aware of all of these human rights covenances, laws that are currently in place that are recognized by the United States government as well as governments throughout the world, and that we all expect to be dealt with in the same manner, that failing. . .we would now be subject to those kinds of violations. And, and in terms of the enforcement, I didn't know how you put enforcement --
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: --in . . .(laughter). . . in a resolution like this. But I was trying to take the approach, is that if we take a proactive position of bringing the information forward so that no one in government--at least from today and forward--will have any reason to say I was not aware of that. You know? So...so--
MR. H. NOA: I appreciate, I, I really appreciate that, what do you call. . .explanation. And it kind of made it really clear. But I just wanted to make sure that everybody else who's in attendance--
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Uh-huh.
MR. H. NOA: --you know, when you and I discussed it, it really made it clear to me. But many of us that are sitting here may not have had the same, you know, understanding. And I appreciate that.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah.
MR. H. NOA: Which is what I was hoping to come out.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: And then I'm, I'm hoping that this discussion will be watched by many viewers, because Akaku is here helping us to make sure that this becomes available to the general public--that they, too, will have an opportunity to understand what was being discussed today and what was being cited in terms of laws that all of us should be knowledgeable of, and then in their own way find avenues to, to be informed themselves so that they, too, might support this kind of position rather than plead ignorance.
NOTE: Silence.
CHAIR MOLINA: . . . Okay. Thank, thank you.
MR. H. NOA: Chair, I would like to pass this microphone over to --
CHAIR MOLINA: Sure. Mr. Kamanu [sic]? COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MR. H. NOA: --to see what their response would be.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Sure.
MR. H. NOA: I would appreciate that.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Aloha. Is this resolution, is it open for discussion right now --
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Yeah.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: --as is? Okay. I do have some suggestions. May I make some suggestions? That we...are we ready to talk about language to be submitted?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Yeah. I'm, I'm offering this only as a working document--
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah . . .(inaudible). . .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: --so nothing on...it's open for...
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Are we working?
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Yes.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Okay . . .(laughter). . . All right. Recognizing United States Public Law 103-150. . .I'm not entirely fine with that because laws have penalties. There's no penalty on it. It's, it's more like what Mr. Nishiki mentioned--as an apology act. But I do understand your view on it and, and what position you're limited to in that. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Bill of Human Rights, I'd like to suggest inserting the language. . .after the comma. . ."its obligations under" the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and "its obligations under" the International Bill of Human Rights--just to clarify that "obligations" are what we are discussing here and that's what should be in the language. And then. . .whereas. . .second sentence, the word "indigenous" has come to mean "in deign", and it's root word, as used in civil law, means people without property rights. And I would move to strike that word "indigenous", particularly in a resolution where intergovernmental dialogue is being entered upon. Indigenous. . .is, was a thing of the past when King Kauikeaouli adopted and gave our nation, the original nation the Magna Carta of 1839. So a constitutional people does not equate. . .a indigenous people. Besides, I'd like to call your attention to the United States submitted report to the UPR, August 20 6 . I believe annotation notes do contain termination and extinguishment of the indigenous Native Hawaiian rights. That is something that the Human Rights Task Force has moved against and has rejected as a claim against all of, all of the people's estates. So I'd like to. . .suggest that. Then continuing, same sentence, second sentence--Hawaiian people never directly COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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relinquished--which connotes indirectly, I believe, that a specific word is out there somewhere that better suits. You know, I know you took it from the language.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Uh-huh.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: But this is...it's a given, that document is a given. Your creation is just building on it and complimenting your position here as having this dialogue. So "never directly", I would strike that and leave it as "never relinquished". " Their claims to their inherent sovereignty", I would strike "inherent" because it pigeonholes you under international law into being something like a, a land rover left on the land. It's, it puts the people into a position of rights of occupancy only. I would suggest replacing the word "inherent" with complete, complete or the word "total". "Total" has financial as well as, you know, regular common language meaning in t t l. . .debts, total expenses, total. . .value. Yeah? Value is a human right, we give our human rights value. So. . .not to digress too far on that. Complete sovereignty or total sovereignty as a people, as a people or over their national lands.
. . . I could come back to that. "To the United States either through their monarchy", I would insert between the words "their" and "monarchy", "constitutional". We need to be accountable for the language that we put out there to the public and to people who are not aware that a constitutional monarchy exists. And through a plebiscite or referendum and, and then we're on to the next. . .I was going to say "referendum" . . .(laughter). . . Whereas, the United States Congress, on the occasion of ka mea ka mea Second sentence: "of the illegal overthrow"--I would move to strike "overthrow", and insert "fix of trade". . .which is factually, as proof of evidence shows us, that is actually what occurred. An "overthrow" must take place by and with the people of the nation initiating the overthrow, it must culminate in the termination of jurisdiction. And today as we are here, we know, obviously, those two things didn't happen. There are, there are two other elements to constitute an overthrow--and that is having an absolute monarch and having in place an alternate system of governance. Now we know that in 1893, that was not done by the people and not accomplished as far as the elements being in place which would constitute an overthrow. This is something that gives people the mindset of a victim mindset. Oh, it was overthrowed [sic]. Well, that was a good disguise back then, but it isn't anymore. The facts are the people of the nation did not initiate overthrowing their constitutional monarch, and neither did they create an alternative type of governance, and neither is the jurisdiction here terminated--as you all well know. So I would put in "illegal fix of trade of the". And I know this is, you know, olelo Pelekania, Kingdom of Hawaii, is wale. I would insert "the identity recognized as a legal personality under international laws established October 10th, 1840" ho Hawaii . . . (inaudible). . . aina. All of the aina set apart and which belongs to the descendants of I Hawaii. . . .(inaudible). . . So, so that we are all aware, on the same page, that we are discussing the origin, not an incorporated term. . .that comes to us from another nation's language. So Kingdom of Hawaii. Continuing on, third sentence, "acknowledged the historical significance of this event which resulted in the suppression of the", and I COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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would, once again, strike "inherent" and insert the word "complete" sovereignty. If we had inherent sovereignty, we would not be sitting here today. . .discussing these items.
CHAIR MOLINA: Excuse me, Ms. Ventura?
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Yes?
CHAIR MOLINA: I apologize for interrupting. I have a difficult balancing act here with...we're about to lose quorum.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: All right.
CHAIR MOLINA: And I would like to...because I know Mr. Kamaunu has been waiting patiently to comment, and then I'd like to give Mr. Medeiros, as the last Member, to...if he has any questions for you. So I apologize, because we're, you know...
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: I'll wrap it up.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. But, yeah. And also at a later point you can always submit to the Committee, in writing, your recommendations as well.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah. Mr. Chairman?
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Terrific. I'll do that.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah. I'll yield my time for her to go, go on.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Whatever you were going to allow me.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. And then I'll have Mr. Kamaunu, then, come right after Ms. Ventura.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Okay. May I continue?
CHAIR MOLINA: Please continue.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Okay. Uh . . . (sigh).. .
. . . Complete sovereignty of the...and because we want to get away from the UPR's United States report--because you have to. . .create a thing before you can alter a COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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thing. . .in reference to the United States UPR report to extinguishing indigenous Native Hawaiian rights and aboriginal rights, which is in the annotations to their report submitted this, this year. In order to keep away from that, I suggest using our language, if we could please start interspersing the original olelo. Yeah? Kanaka a maoli. . .or Kanaka maoli. Then "people", I think is fine because we need to incorporate all of the people in the jurisdiction of the County of Maui. And, whereas the United States, through Public Law 103-150, expressed its commitment to acknowledge the ramifications of the--I move, once again, strike the word "overthrow", it's misleading, and insert "illegal fix of trade". . .which was actually. . .the charge against the treasonists at that time. Of the, and then "Kingdom", once again, prior to "Kingdom of Hawaii", distinguish between olelo Hawaii. . .the original language of precedence, and olelo Pelekania, the English language, which is Kingdom of Hawaii. In order to provide a proper foundation for reconciliation between the United States and the, once again, move to strike "Native Hawaiian" and insert "kanaka a maoli". Because. . .I'm, I'm really. . .adamant on that point, because in our language, "kanaka" is that standing manifestation of Alum. Right in the language itself, it's so beautiful--we do not distinguish, we are not racist, we never did that. You know our kupuna just hanai everybody. It's because of the mentality of the time, "kanaka". . .is people. Yeah? "A maoli" or "maoli" is "that of origin". And, whereas--I would like to insert right in there, maybe some language on. . ."and our obligation together under the Magna Carta of 1839", which continues to exist as a basis and our foundation to law.
. . . And, and it's important because in that Magna Carta of 1839, Kauikeaouli and the forming constitutional government secured all patented and even unpatented rights to property, personal and. . .real to all kanaka. And he did this prior to establishing the Mahele. . .which is an incredible feat because he actually took the indigenous people and wrapped a core around it, structured it in law and dutifully patented the nation to protect it against any unlawful insertion. So. . .with that I would, I would definitely put that in writing for you . . .(chuckles). . .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Thank you.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: And ask that it be--
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: --put in there. And then...
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: I don't think my, my notes are, are as accurate as--
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.
ALL: . . .(laughter). . . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Mahalo, mahalo. . . .(laughs). . .
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: . . .(inaudible). . .
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: And then, you know, I would just be repeating myself for the other sections. And I'd like to draw attention to. . .what is "the common understanding that of the people" in the first "whereas" on the second page. . ."of the world concerning the inalienable and inviolable rights of all members of the human family and constitutes an obligation. . .for the members of the international community." I'd like to drop right down to the. . .second paragraph there. After the "United Nations", just a suggestion, insert "The Hague Relations", which I feel is very important because The Hague Relations addresses pr v t international law where our t t are governed and tr t laws are, and also the right to commerce. . .yeah, which. . .covers DOT kind of stuff as. . .we heard the right to travel was one of the human rights violations, the right to movement, burial rights. Yeah? And then also. . .could this lead to a moratorium?
. . . I noticed that it was in the, the draft proposed, and then a moratorium. . .I feel would defmitely help to remedy the. . .the violations of human rights to shelter. . .land, water, not being subject of experimentation by GMOs, that kind of thing. Okay? And again, just to reiterate the title on the back page, "its obligations". . .so the County of Maui recognizes obligations that it has.
. . . I thank you for your time and also the time that you yielded, and I will submit. . .something in writing. And once again, I'm happy to work with everyone. Aloha.
CHAIR MOLINA: Aloha. Thank you very much, Ms. Ventura.
MS. VENTURA-OLIVER: Mahalo, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you. Okay. Members, I'd like to recognize Mr. Kamanu [sic], and then from there the Chair will give his comments in closing today.
MR. KAMAUNU: . . . Thank you, Chair. Just a comment.
. . . When we look at...when we talk about sovereignty and our rights or claims to that. . .there is an interesting--and you can find it online, the Congressional discussion of 1893. They went over this. . .and their conclusion was that they had no jurisdiction, and they make that claim in the discussions. So they never took any action and this is where this comes into play, and this is where Congress is, is still supporting this in 103-150-- that our sovereignty is still intact. There is no question about that, and they reiterate that in this Public Law 103-150. And if we look throughout, even in the State laws, they really. . .reiterate these things too. We also have to look at the. . .the relationship. In part of the discussion, they, they understand, the United States government understands their COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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relationship with the Hawaiians or the natives. . .legally and politically. So. . .again, it comes down to fiduciary duties, yeah, as a body or quorum that oversees laws of a community And in a community such as ours, being that there are rights vested, yeah, which is a keyword--when everything is vested, that means it's...and being that our sovereignty is still intact, everything that comes along with that is still vested, it's still ours. One of the things I would like to see. . .probably contained in here is the act of the Kuleana . Kuleana is sovereign land. The. . .it talks about. . .as Mahealani was talking about, titles, it talks about allodial titles, allodial titles to kanakas. And these are the things that I've already discussed in the past to the Council and explained what allodial titles were. So, you know that, these are laws that are already instituted. These are laws that are already vested. These are laws that actually explain what rights we actually have and are still. . .still enforced due to the fact that in 1893 Congress concluded that they could not take or did not have jurisdiction to naturalize. . .Native Hawaiians. And with this passing of or recognition of this apology letter, it signifies that statement that Hawaiians are t ll and...are sovereign. So what has to be done here, if we're looking at legalities, is what is the rights of the people that are afforded them to their natural laws? Because if the sovereignty is there, that means the Kingdom laws are still in play. So what has to happen is the understanding of actually what is the native people's rights, and weigh it against what's happening in the community to make sure that the rights vested to the natives continue. As I stated before, you know, we're looking at not being able to malama our land, not being able to go fishing over here, do all these things. Those are just part of it. But there is a concern that, you know, if we looking at this. . .that we have to look at what the rights vested to the people are so that we understand what rights have to be afforded according to the resolution. Thank you.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kamanu [ ]. Well, Members, we've reached that time of day. I wanna thank you for giving up...making adjustments to your schedule to hear the concerns from this particular item. And I want to thank the panelists for sharing their manao with us. I think we've made some deeper headway in terms of understanding the issues and concerns. And before I, I end, again I, I...earlier today there was...this is something personal. And, you know, those of you know who me, if there is something that I disagree with, I will speak from my mind. And there was a comment made about communication from this Committee. Maybe it was more due to me, and I'll accept that. But a word that I felt was very unfair, using the word "terrible". And it was my understanding that we would all work with each other in a civil way. And, you know, I'll be the first to say--maybe communication wasn't perfect, but there were phone calls made. The agendas were all sent out, notifications made to the Kingdom of Hawaii that we would have a meeting. And this is the second meeting. Last term, there was only one meeting. So I think this term we've been as accommodating as we could be. So I wanted to make that point. And, you know, the ladies that you see here to my left, they work very hard: Ms. Sakamoto, the Secretary; Ms. Nakata, who has taken the place of, actually, the analyst who did a lot of the work in trying to organize the panel. She's not here 'cause she was, she's been hapai. . .she's been...all a lot of running around, and I don't know how she did it, Ms. Hamman. So I know she watching. Mahalo to you, Ms. Hamman-- COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(laughter). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: And, you know, she was very concerned about the, the comment that was made earlier in testimony today. So I just wanna tell you, your work is very much appreciated, Ms. Hamman, and congratulations to you, I know you'll be delivering in the next couple of days. So--
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: . . .(laughter). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: So anyway, I'm speaking from the heart, and I hope at the end of the day we can still appreciate each other. And Mr. Prime Minister, if there was a misunderstanding in protocol, you know, I apologize. So with that being said, Members, I, I do wanna thank all of you, Corporation Counsel, Staff, Members, thank you so much. The Chair's recommendation for this initially was to file, but instead the Chair will defer. Being that we do have a... some amendments, now, to incorporate onto the bill as well as the comments from Ms. Ventura that would, I guess, help the Committee in making adjustments. . .to the resolution or the working document, I should say, that was presented to us by Mr. Kaho`ohalahala. And I wanna thank him, too, because that provides us a lot better understanding and guidance as it relates to this. So with that being said--okay, Mr. Prime Minister, very briefly please.
MR. H. NOA: Um .. .
CHAIR MOLINA: Oh, go ahead.
MR. H. NOA: . . .(inaudible). . .
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(laughter). . .
MR. H. NOA: Knowing--
CHAIR MOLINA: Oh, microphone. Sorry.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
MR. H. NOA: Mr. Chair, thank you. Knowing that this is work in progress. . .Mr. Chair, is it possible that we get assigned Council Members that are returning to. . .be a part of this construction. . .such as Mr. Medeiros; and I know that Gladys Baisa, Councilwoman Gladys Baisa--
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Prime Minister, I, I'm not returning . . . (laughter).. .
MR. H. NOA: Oh. COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah. I won't be here--
MR. H. NOA: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: --in the new...Mr. Nishiki won't be here --
MR. H. NOA: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: --and Mr. Kaho`ohalahala won't be here.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: And I won't.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: I'll be here.
MR. H. NOA: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: There's five of us that --
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: So it's only . . . (inaudible).. .
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: I'm the only . . . (Inaudible).. .
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: --will not be here.
MR. H. NOA: Oh, so sorry.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(laughter). . .
MR. H. NOA: I was just trying to give you guys my blessing, I guess, you know.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Thank you . . . (laughter). . . Thank you . . .(laughter). . .
MR. H. NOA: I gotta pick the--
COUNCILMEMBER NISHIKI: . . . (laughter).. .
MR. H. NOA: --somebody who's here. Nah. But anyway, Mr. Chair, is it possible that we can make this assignment? I, I know that she introduced the. . .thing, so I don't know how, how to do this. Help me out.
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah-- COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: Go ahead.
COUNCILMEMBER JOHNSON: No, and I just wanna thank you. And my suggestion earlier, and I think we all support the Chair that by deferring this item it will remain in Committee, it's not to be filed. So I wanna thank Member Baisa for bringing it forward. So it would be referred, then, I believe to the next Council. And, and the Chair will clarify that.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. If I could add my clarification, what the Chair's intent will be, at the end of the term, we have one last meeting, and rather than, you know, filing this, then we can maybe have this go over to the next Council term. So rather than you having to resubmit a whole new bill, go through that process again, this will just carry over into the new term. And whoever chairs this Committee in the next term can bring it up, and if you can communicate with whoever. At this point, we don't know who's gonna be doing what--
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (inaudible).. .
CHAIR MOLINA: --next term.
MR. H. NOA: Uh-huh.
CHAIR MOLINA: So rather than, you know, just filing it away, so we'll just have it carry over into the next term.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Wait. Go ahead.
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO`OHALAHALA: Chair, if . .if we were able to get the language solidified on the reso, is it possible to pass out a reso within the remaining. . .time of this sitting Council? Resolutions only require one. . .one meeting.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: One meeting.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay, at this point, I, I can't answer that right now, Mr. Kaho' ohalahala.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mr. Chair?
CHAIR MOLINA: I know I have a ton of items. This was typical of our agenda --
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . . (laughter).. .
COUNCILMEMBER KAHO' OHALAHALA: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah, I know . . . (laughter).. . COMMI EE O E W O E MI U ES C n l f th C nt f M
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CHAIR MOLINA: --the amount of items we have.
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Yeah.
CHAIR MOLINA: So, anyway--
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mr. Chair?
CHAIR MOLINA: I'm sorry. Mr. Medeiros?
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: You know, I, I've just recently gone over my master agenda for the rest of the term. . .and I would. . .be able to and gladly, you know. . .relinquish one of my meetings for you. . .if that helps.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. Well, the Chair will. . .look into that--
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: For your consideration.
CHAIR MOLINA: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for providing that option as well.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oops.
CHAIR MOLINA: Oops.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: . . .(inaudible). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: Anyway--
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . . .(laughter). . .
CHAIR MOLINA: So, anyway, Members. . .we shall defer this item, and it is about 3:15. The Chair wants to thank all for participating in this long day, but a very productive day indeed.
COUNCIL MEMBERS VOICED NO OBJECTIONS. ( x d: AM, , nd M
ACTION: DEFER pending further discussion.
CHAIR MOLINA: So with that being said--
MR. H. NOA: I also give you guys my mahalos. Thank you. Aloha.
CHAIR MOLINA: Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MINUTES C n l f th C nt f M
November 18, 2010
COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: . (inaudible).. .
COUNCILMEMBER MEDEIROS: Mahalo.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mahalo.
CHAIR MOLINA: Okay. This Committee of the Whole meeting for November 18 th, 2010 is now adjourned. . . (gavel).. .
A OU : : p. .
APPROVED: r
MICHAEL J. ILI A, Chair Committee the Whole
cow:min:1011I8 Transcribed by: Daniel Schoenbeck COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MINUTES Council of the County of Maui
November 18, 2010
CERTIFICATE
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