Legislative Council

Thursday, 14 September 2000

THE PRESIDENT (Hon George Cash) took the Chair at 11.00 am, and read prayers.

STATE WORKPLACE AGREEMENTS Motion Resumed from 13 September on the following motion moved by Hon N.F. Moore (Leader of the House) - That this House calls on the Opposition to repudiate demands by the union movement and the federal Australian Labor Party to scrap state workplace agreements and acknowledge that its opposition to state workplace agreements since 1993 has been ideologically driven and dictated by the union movement. HON N.F. MOORE (Mining and Pastoral - Leader of the House) [11.03 am]: I will not take up the time of the House for much longer on this issue. We on this side of the House are having some difficulty understanding what the Labor Party is about in respect of this very important issue. Yesterday Hon Tom Helm gave us some indication that the unions were not opposed to workplace agreements, but I suspect the word that is missing out of all this is the word “individual”. What we will probably get from the Labor Party is a policy which says that workplace agreements are all right provided everybody has the same one, which bears a remarkable similarity to the old award system that it replaced. If that is what the Labor Party is going to do it should come clean and tell everybody so that the mining industry, the tourism industry or the hospitality industry is not led up the garden path through the Labor Party suggesting that in some way or other its industrial relations policy will allow for individual workplace agreements to continue to be available to workers in Western Australia. As I suggested yesterday, a large number of people in the various work forces in Western Australia are happy to embrace individual workplace agreements and collective workplace agreements. Those agreements have made quite a dramatic difference, in a positive sense, to the working conditions of many thousands of Western Australians. Obviously, that is the reason the Labor Party is sending these mixed messages - the mixed messages being that Dr Gallop has a progressive view on these matters and the unions do not. As Hon Tom Helm said, the unions are now falling into line. It will be interesting to see whether that is in fact the case. During my introductory remarks on this motion I gave some indication of what the media at least thinks about the unions’ attitude towards Dr Gallop’s position. As I said yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition made a long speech about this matter and, in part, he said that the Labor Party will have a policy that accommodates the interests of getting rid of the workplace agreements legislation. I can understand that - they get rid of the legislation and replace it with something else. He went on to say that it would be replaced with a system that no longer protects itself with secrecy, and diminishes the rights of the umpire. So, the Labor Party will take us back to a system where individuals cannot make their own decisions. He went on to say that it would be a system that no longer works against the interests of collective arrangements with unions or penalises and discriminates against the unions. Translated into real-speak, that means going back to the old system that was in place before in which the Industrial Relations Commission and the umpires and that process are paramount, it is not open to workers or individual employees to make arrangements on their own behalf because they really need to be “protected” by the unions, and union membership is pre-eminent. In that context it is interesting to look at some of the figures about union membership. In Western Australia union membership was down to about 21 per cent of the work force in August 1999. It is probably less than that now. That clearly demonstrates that people in the workplace are pretty satisfied with the existing situation. That is the dilemma for Dr Gallop, because he has his union colleagues on one hand telling him what he should do and on the other hand he can see what is happening in reality in the Western Australian workplace. The first part of the motion states - . . . this House calls on the Opposition to repudiate demands by the union movement and the federal Australian Labor Party . . . Hon Tom Helm has suggested that the union movement itself is not demanding that the Opposition scrap workplace agreements. There is a bit of confusion with the federal ALP because all the reports coming out of the Hobart conference indicate that Mr Beazley is opposed to what Dr Gallop has said he will do. Maybe it is a question of semantics, whether or not we are talking about workplace agreements per se or whether we are talking about individual workplace agreements, and that is something we need clarified when the Labor Party policy which has been agreed to by its Caucus becomes public. The second part of the motion states - . . . this House calls on the Opposition to . . . acknowledge that its opposition to state workplace agreements since 1993 has been ideologically driven and dictated by the union movement.

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Here is a chance for the Opposition to support this motion. If those opposite do support it they would be repudiating demands by the unions to scrap workplace agreements. If the unions are not making that demand then, of course, it is academic whether the Opposition supports it or not. If those opposite are now opposed to workplace agreements they should acknowledge that the reason they are opposed to it is that it has been ideologically driven by the union movement. I hope that the Labor Party will support the motion. Doing so will give it a chance to make it clear to the community that it supports the workplace agreement system that has been put in place in Western Australia, because that is what Dr Gallop is leading us to believe. In this pre-election period it is important that people know exactly what the Labor Party is proposing to do. I acknowledge that the Labor Party does not have to put out its policy until the election comes around, but I hope that it will be clear about what it proposes to do in industrial relations and that it will spell it out in detail so that every worker and every voter in Western Australia knows exactly what the policy means for them - not some glossy, half-hearted, semi-detailed - Hon Tom Stephens: Liberal-type policy. Hon N.F. MOORE: No, hang on a minute. The coalition went to the election and said that it would fix up the industrial relations system. It said what it would do and it did it. The Labor Party has now come to realise that it works. I read out some of the comments made by members opposite when they were opposing this legislation back in 1993. In those speeches they said that it would bring about the end of the world. Hon Tom Stephens: The President should have stopped me interjecting. Hon N.F. MOORE: He should have. Now the Labor Party has acknowledged, via the comments of its leader, that the 1993 legislation has had a positive impact. The Labor Party should act in a manner similar to that of the coalition in 1993 and 1996 when it puts forward to the voting population of Western Australia exactly what it has in mind for industrial relations. The coalition spelt it out in detail and it delivered. Instead of the Labor Party trying to convince the mining industry or the hospitality industry that it is wishy-washy on workplace agreements and that it thinks they might be okay, it should tell them what its policy is. It is not good enough to say that workers who are on workplace agreements and who are doing better than they would have otherwise can keep them, but that everybody else who the Labor Party thinks should be doing better than they are should be put on some sort of award, thereby taking away their rights to workplace agreements and taking away the capacity of employers to negotiate with their employees. I hope that the Labor Party does not go down that path. This is an opportunity for the Labor Party to support this motion. Why would it not? Hon J.A. Cowdell interjected. Hon N.F. MOORE: Perhaps I should have amended the motion to say “state individual workplace agreements”. That might have made it a bit easier for the Labor Party. By voting against this motion, members opposite will be acknowledging that the union movement and the federal ALP are calling on them to scrap workplace agreements and that is okay. If that is what members opposite think, that is fine. However, they have already indicated that they think what the coalition did in 1993 is okay. By voting against this motion, they will be saying, in effect, that their opposition to state workplace agreements has not been ideologically driven or dictated by the union movement; it is basically a strategy based on the politics of the moment. This has been a worthwhile debate. However, it is a pity, as we have been told by Hon Tom Stephens, that we will have to wait to find out what the Labor Party stands for. That is a pity because people are entitled to know where it stands, especially as the media is speculating about this very important issue. Hon Tom Stephens: Where do you stand on the privatisation of the Water Corporation? Hon N.F. MOORE: I do not support the privatisation of the Water Corporation, and I do not know anybody who does, for that matter. Hon Tom Stephens: Will you do it after the next election? Hon N.F. MOORE: That has absolutely nothing to do with this motion. However, if the Leader of the Opposition wants to move a motion saying that the Government should not privatise the Water Corporation, I will be happy to debate that when the time comes. At the moment, we are debating the Labor Party’s industrial relations policy, which has the same texture and the same consistency as a blancmange. I support the motion, and I hope the whole House agrees with it. Question put and a division taken with the following result - Ayes (11)

Hon M.J. Criddle Hon Ray Halligan Hon N.F. Moore Hon Derrick Tomlinson Hon B.K. Donaldson Hon Barry House Hon M.D. Nixon Hon Muriel Patterson (Teller) Hon Peter Foss Hon Murray Montgomery Hon B.M. Scott

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Noes (12)

Hon Kim Chance Hon G.T. Giffard Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich Hon Ken Travers Hon J.A. Cowdell Hon Helen Hodgson Hon Christine Sharp Hon Giz Watson Hon Cheryl Davenport Hon Norm Kelly Hon Tom Stephens Hon E.R.J. Dermer (Teller)

Pairs

Hon Simon O'Brien Hon J.A. Scott Hon W.N. Stretch Hon Bob Thomas Hon Dexter Davies Hon N.D. Griffiths Hon Greg Smith Hon Tom Helm Hon Max Evans Hon Mark Nevill Question thus negatived. RURAL AND REGIONAL WESTERN AUSTRALIA - FAILURE OF STATE GOVERNMENT Motion HON TOM STEPHENS (Mining and Pastoral - Leader of the Opposition) [11.17 am]: I move - That this House - (1) Condemns the State Government for its failure to safeguard and improve the interests of rural and regional Western Australia and its misplaced priorities. (2) Calls on the Government to amend its policies and give priority to the delivery of core government services to all Western Australians, especially in the areas of health, education, community safety and public transport. Hon N.F. Moore: And the belltower and the convention centre. Is that core business? Hon TOM STEPHENS: I was going to come to that. It is important for the Government to appreciate that the core responsibility of government should be to look after the interests of regional Western Australians. A Government that fails to look after regional Western Australians fails in its duties. To the extent that the Leader of the House has, by interjection, just highlighted an issue, he is highlighting a further reason that this House should pass the motion that I have moved. Although he seems to have no problem with Governments being preoccupied with the central business district and the construction of belltowers in the Perth central business district, as soon as I point out to the House that there is a specific need in a regional part of Western Australia, core to the tourism industry on the Dampierland peninsula, for instance - a portfolio responsibility of this very minister - he seems to begrudge government diverting its attention and eyesight away from the CBD. Hon N.F. Moore: Nobody is begrudging it; I am simply saying that you have to be consistent. If we wanted to build this belltower in the Dampier peninsula, would you have agreed to it? The PRESIDENT: Order! The Leader of the House has the floor. Let us have one speaker at a time. Hon TOM STEPHENS: If the Government were interested in bolstering tourism in Western Australia - Hon N.F. Moore: And it is. Hon TOM STEPHENS: Then it should display that interest by supporting those regional parts of Western Australia that also have needs. When the Government squanders the resources of government, as it is doing currently by allocating funds to the construction of belltowers, tunnels, highways and convention centres in the central business district of the capital city, it is depriving the people in regional Western Australia of facilities for which they are legitimately entitled to reasonable support. In the case the Leader of the House interjected about, we are talking about a church belltower attached to an old mission church in Beagle Bay that is already on the heritage list. It is in desperate need of a conservation strategy that is bolstered by financial support from the Court Government. To this point the Government has not been able to identify the funds it will be allocating to that project. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: It fell down as a result of an act of God. Dare you defy that? Hon TOM STEPHENS: It appears to have fallen down in the face of a very heavy wet season this year. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: I see - it was not an act of God. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: When did God last advise Hon Derrick Tomlinson of his intentions? Hon Derrick Tomlinson: This morning when I was speaking to him. Hon N.F. Moore: Did you say that he had some obligation to fix it?

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The PRESIDENT: Order, members! Hon TOM STEPHENS: By way of background, that belltower was constructed after the arrival of the German palatine priests on 8 May 1901. In working with the local Aboriginal people and the Filipino pearl divers, they constructed a belltower using the bricks and limestone they gathered from local materials. They did not have cement, but a material that, after nearly 100 years and in the face of one of the heaviest wet seasons the region has ever known, has seen the demise of the belltower. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: It sounds like it stood for 100 years by an act of God. Hon TOM STEPHENS: It could well have done. Hon Ken Travers: One wonders whether the belltower in Barrack Street was built by an act of God, because I always thought it was built by Richard Court. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: No. That was in response to a gift to your previous Government, about which you did nothing. The PRESIDENT: Order, members! Perhaps Hon Ken Travers and Hon Derrick Tomlinson might step outside and work out the history of the belltower. Hon TOM STEPHENS: My response to that series of interjections is that regional Western Australia is entitled to a fair crack from the Government of the day. It does not get that support from this Government, and that is illustrated in a number of ways, not the least of which has just been highlighted by the Leader of the House. I have listed a number of issues that can be canvassed in this motion. However, I will start by picking out the first of those issues - health. On 12 September I received a faxed letter from the township of Halls Creek in the Kimberley region. The letter was addressed to me by a longstanding resident of that town, Mrs Susan McGlasson, who has sent me copies of several letters that she has sent to the Minister for Health, Hon John Day, over a recent period. She is concerned about health services for the entire Kimberley region and is in the process of forming a community action group to try to resolve and improve some of these issues. She is of the very firm belief that some patients are receiving less than adequate care and need their concerns addressed. This letter is dated 30 July, and I will quite appropriately draw it to the attention of the House. It states - I am one of the faceless and nameless recipients of Health Services in Halls Creek, and it is with some concern that I write to you today. It probably won’t be eloquence that holds your attention, but it may be that plain, old-fashioned, hard headed commonsense might make some slight difference to our current situation here. For some two years now we here in the community have seen deterioration in the quality and style of the delivery of health services to Halls Creek . . . I am now of the belief that this will continue to be a state of crisis. We constantly have a parade of new faces at the Hospital. All of the nurses in the last 18 months are continuing to be recruited from Agencies, at a huge cost to the hospital. At best the present terms of service seem to be an average of six to eight weeks. This involves the cost of a flight in and out of Halls Creek of around $1700 each time we change a member of staff. Therefore the costs of these flights for one position on average in any one fiscal year is around $12,000 to $14,600 per annum. Multiply this by perhaps 10 positions within the Hospital, it is in excess of $100,000 per annum. Add to this the extra agency fees of approximately $500 per week for one staff member, multiply this by perhaps 6 agency staff in the hospital at any one time and suddenly $162,240 additional costs appear. What could we do with $250,000 per annum to encourage long term staff recruitment, in the form of salary and conditions incentives? It continues - It would appear that to recruit nursing staff for longer periods of time, preferably six to twelve months would be far more economical. However to do this living conditions and terms of employment may have to be reviewed. I was invited to two homes of nursing staff recently on a social level, and I can tell you that I wouldn’t expect my own staff to live in those circumstances. Both people had been told that the unit would be furnished and had everything required. There had been work done on the quarters recently, however the furniture was old and the beds had to be replaced. One had no bedding at all, not even a blanket. The spare rooms, which she is expected to use to house other health workers upon occasion, has only bed frames, but no mattresses, and she has been denied the means to get them. There were no window coverings on the bedroom windows. The security doors were broken and there were no keys, and no recourse to keys and repairs. In a town where security is paramount, this alone is appalling. There have been many occasions in my own home where I have found people . . . standing within my home, and I have been alone. These women, living alone, have the right to feel secure, and indeed this state of affairs in the homes located off the hospital grounds may well leave the Health Services at risk of litigation should anything happen, and result in a costly legal action and a loss of confidence in the ability of the Health Services to honour their Duty of Care to their staff.

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Why, asks Mrs McGlasson of the Minister for Health. She also indicates that the local staff have been told that no funds will be spent on the basic facilities required for the staff and patients. There are no biscuits or bread and there is no margarine in the fridge for the staff to use on either the patients’ bread or their own bread. I continue - Of course, should Health Services manage to retain one person for twelve months and save $11,050 in air fares, they could actually afford to put 62 tubs of margarine in the fridge there every week. . . John F Kennedy was to deliver a speech at Dallas, which said in part: “Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other. The advancement of learning depends on community leadership for financial and political support -- and the products of that learning, in turn, are essential to the leadership’s hopes for continued progress and prosperity”. If we, as a community, continue to fail to have continuity of service and skills the Health Service fails in its duty of care to us, as the recipients of that care. A constant revolving door of personnel only results in a lack of long term knowledge of patients, systems cannot be maintained to standard, due to the lack of time for orientation and training. Any business, which does not retain the services of key personnel, suffers, and the Health Services are no different. I am sure there must be some cases “slipping through the cracks” due to this lack of skilling and training. Mrs McGlasson has considerable experience operating a business in the Kimberley region. No doubt she is appalled at the way the Government is maladministering the Health Department at the local level. She continues - At present there is no child care nurse at Community Health. I cannot tell you the names of most of the nursing staff at the hospital, and I know of many people who have been turned away from the hospital doors. I also know that we have concerns with regard to confidentiality and the quality of patient care. We as a community have voted with our feet and considerable numbers have taken to visiting the Aboriginal Medical Service for their care, which may indeed save the hospital considerable sums of money. However at some time someone who presents at the hospital will have a serious concern and be refused treatment, again a litigation concern. The rest of us would just prefer to crawl over broken glass. She again asks why? It is not a rhetorical question but one with considerable feeling for the alarming developments that are occurring within the local Halls Creek community as a result of the Government's neglect of these issues. She writes about a nursing staff member who was allocated by an agency to the area on a short-term basis. That person was allocated time off, again leaving the community without nursing staff. She asks - Where is the co-ordination between the Support services and the Nursing management. . . Unless staff with appropriate skills are recruited and maintained, then surely it is a waste of senior management resources, and professional discourtesy to bring them here and render them impotent, all bad financial decisions in any business. Team Building and skills management are essential criteria for any successful financial venture, yet our hospital cannot attract highly skilled staff to work in anarchy, and, believe me, the word is out. Why? There is a two bedroom unit on the hospital grounds, which appears to be constantly vacant. If we have trouble attracting staff and have security issues with off-grounds accommodation, Why is this not utilised. . . We are an isolated community. There are no facilities here for entertainment, aside from the hotel. We have no swimming pool, no theatre, no bookshop. As the town Travel agent, I am aware of the costs and the lack of connecting flights for people in emergency situations, trying to reach family and friends, often involving two to three days travel to reach home. She writes that nursing staff may not leave the town for a weekend’s respite, despite the use of a car. She says they are restricted to trips of 40 kilometres a week unless they get permission from the health system. She asks - Is it policy to employ highly trained, skilled, managerial staff and treat them like children? In those circumstances, it is no wonder it is difficult to recruit professionals to the area. I quote again - In the not so distant past in my sixteen years here, there was a strong and interactive health service, with the staff of the hospital being strongly involved with the community and we with them. This took the form of friendships, and business associations. There was always a welcome here. This is our duty of care to them. Should this mean fixing someone’s security door on Sunday morning so she can feel safe, this is our duty of care. Why spend a quarter of a million dollars on staff who are not encouraged to become part of the community they serve? When the recent rodeo ball was run by a few members of the hospital staff, (with our thanks) they were actively discouraged. I presume it is the health system that discourages that level of community involvement. She continues - If we could save the flight costs for 6 personnel in a year, some $66,000, the Health Services could afford one or two extra staff members, or to pay for a night orderly to provide security for nursing staff on night duty.

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Perhaps even employ someone to drive the ambulance at night instead, or pay for an extra PATS clerk or secretarial staff member, to relieve pressure on the nursing staff. She writes that no financial support was provided to fix the high frequency radio or to ensure that staff were trained in the use of this facility, a necessity in remote communities. Mrs McGlasson considered writing to several people about several of the issues, but decided to include them all in one submission. She writes that a line of poetry summarises the way she feels - “I have been too far out all my life, Not waving, but drowning”. The feeling in the Halls Creek community in the face of this Government's health policies is that they are no longer able to swim. In another letter to the Minister for Health, she lists security problems experienced by the local hospital and the premises in which the staff are expected to live. She says there are no security locks or padlocks on the gates, and the hospital is effectively a public thoroughfare. The accommodation provided to staff is similarly lacking in security. She describes a government house in which the furnishing is nowhere near the standard required by a professional person. I quote - . . . with only a chair in the second room and 2 bed frames in the third room. The fourth bedroom is an addition to the back verandah, with a deadlock, which is accessed by leaving the house proper, and walking across the back verandah. That has nothing in it at all. She still has no security locks on her screen doors, however I will be providing these myself in the next day. Why are Health Service support staff ignoring these problems? She provided the minister with a series of photographs that portray the poor state of the grounds, and in the letter expresses her concern that staff of the Health Department must live in these circumstances. She asks - How can we expect highly motivated, highly qualified and skilled people to stay when they can’t be sure of their personal safety? How can we expect them to work without the support of the Administration staff? She wrote yet another letter to the Minister for Health. I have not been provided with a reply; I do not know whether it has been answered. She writes - Halls Creek Hospital has lost yet another Director of Nursing. I had high hopes for this particular person, and believed that we had someone of calibre who was prepared to put in the hard yards for the community here. From the beginning she was set up to fail, and this will continue to be the case for any succeeding her, should the current situation in the Health Service continue. Halls Creek is the ultimate loser in this situation, with a less than satisfactory service available where there is a high turnover of staff, and no continuity. Where there is no team building, there is no skilling, and temporary staff have proved uncaring of the community in the past. She is referring to people who are going in and out on private nursing agency appointments, as is the case in so many towns. It would appear that no one who wishes to make change or improvement may apply. Indeed it appears they must promise only to maintain the current status quo, however low, and not make waves. The current crisis in health care in the Kimberley begs the question: why have their been 15 Directors of Nursing between 5 hospitals in the last three years, and a turnover of 300% in nursing staff? Could this current system of management have a fatal flaw? She goes on to ask why work needed to look after the needs of health staff takes months and why the basic issues of hygiene within the local hospital and health system cannot be addressed by additional resources. She describes the recent exodus of doctors and senior nursing staff as continuing. It fills me, her and the rest of the community with great concern. Mrs McGlasson continues - Because I feel so strongly that our communities are being short-changed in Health care . . . . As a result, she is moving to establish a community action group across the Kimberley region. She makes the point - Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I would like to change that scenario, and am resolved to do so. We, the community, are the losers here. We continue to lose gifted clinicians, highly qualified managers, respected in their professions, and we finish with glorified nursing posts. Is it the intention of the Health Service to cease using Directors of Nursing and transfer all managerial duties to the Health Service Managers?

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Mrs McGlasson’s letter is illustrative of experience within the small community of Halls Creek. Regrettably, the Halls Creek community is no orphan in this respect. There are five issues on which I believe Mrs McGlasson has a legitimate right to have urgent answers. I believe the Government should respond to them in this debate. I ask the minister to respond to Mrs McGlasson’s concerns, specifically, whether it is true that in the Kimberley 15 directors of nursing had left from five hospitals in the past three years and that there is a turnover of around 300 per cent in nursing staff? Is it correct that up to $162 240 of much- needed health funding has effectively been diverted from the Halls Creek health service to flying in short-term agency personnel rather than allocating the funds and attracting permanent hospital staff locally? Can the minister detail what steps are being taken to attract permanent hospital staff to the Halls Creek hospital? For the benefit of people in other remote towns, not only within the Kimberley region but also more widely across the State, what steps are being taken to attract permanent hospital staff to those communities? Is the minister aware that the accommodation the Government provides to new nursing staff in Halls Creek has no mattresses, no window coverings, broken security screens and doors without locks? If the minister is aware, what is he doing about it? If he is not aware, why is he not? As the issues have been raised by Mrs McGlasson and by me in this House there is all the more reason why the issues should be tackled without further delay. What funding will the minister provide to ensure that nursing staff facilities are improved so that staff are not vulnerable and unable to secure their accommodation and also some of the local health facilities? The House has heard me speak of other situations in regional parts of Western Australia where there is a desperate requirement for the needs of health services to obtain the undivided attention of the Government. Too often over the past seven and half years of this Government's term in office we have seen a distracted Government focus on issues that are not related to the core responsibilities of government. It has been distracted by issues that are nothing more than diversions from the main game. It is ideologically driven in many cases: Agendas of privatisation, outsourcing, downsizing and running away from government responsibilities. It somehow expects that people in regional parts of Western Australia will be able to survive. In the face of that, they are not surviving. As a result, they are experiencing the disquiet which is powerfully expressed here by Mrs McGlasson and which deserves urgent attention and response. The Government would be better off allocating funds to the health services rather than rushing to complete its belltower project in Perth or rushing to allocate $110m of taxpayers' funds on a convention centre in Perth. Instead of giving away to the convention centre project $75m worth of real estate that is owned by the people of Western Australia, the Government should start spending taxpayers' resources in areas of need. It should spend in the areas of real and acute need, which includes regional Western Australia. Only yesterday, in the Kimberley region, a coroner's report to the Government made findings that there is a desperate need for a shake up in the way that mental health services are provided to the region. The coroner called on the Government to embark upon a review to provide an improved delivery of mental health services to the Kimberley region. It is not only the Kimberley region that needs a shake up. In the view of many - and I presume submissions were made to this effect to the coroner from local people - the Government has failed to adequately resource mental health services so they have the wherewithal to respond to the individual needs of people within local and remote communities in the regional areas of Western Australia. The Minister for Health and the Government seem distracted. As a result, people are experiencing unmet needs and are feeling aggrieved. I can understand why one gets conservative members of local communities expressing outrage about the current Government's policies across a whole range of issues. In the Gascoyne region people plead with the Government to resolve the health needs of the area. They want the Government to respond with an appropriate patient assistance travel scheme that adequately looks after the needs of patients being transferred to hospitals and specialists. Patients need to benefit from specialist medical and health services in Perth or towns near where they live. We also hear the pleas of these communities for improved hospital services to look after the needs of patients in towns like Carnarvon, Exmouth and Meekatharra and for improved services at the nursing posts and hospital facilities in the Murchison, Gascoyne and Pilbara regions. The people in those regions are understandably angry by the failure of the Government to support those services. I was pleased recently to revisit the township of Mt Magnet and to see that, following my own strident representations that I have made in this place about how its hospital and health facilities had been neglected, the Mt Magnet Health Centre had finally received some attention. Improved facilities had finally been put in place in that centre. It had finally received a functioning defibrillator, an improved communication system for the nursing staff in their emergency treatment room, and additional systems and facilities to support the observations of the dedicated local staff. That came about not by the normal flow of much needed resources into the local community but in response to an awful tragedy, the loss of life, in that local centre over a year ago. There was a fear that that loss of life occurred because a defibrillator at the centre simply did not function properly. Following that death a coronial inquiry was held. As a result, a flow of resources went to support the needs of the local nursing and medical staff in that community. It is good that the community now has those resources. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: What a price to pay.

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Hon TOM STEPHENS: Indeed, what a price to pay. The Government responded by providing those resources only after the tragedy. I do not find that reality to be acceptable to the regional communities. In that case the coroner found that the heart attack was so severe and dramatic that a functioning defibrillator would have been unlikely to have revived the patient. Fortunately, that was accepted and understood by the family. The finding was well appreciated by the dedicated nursing staff, who were horrified by their experience. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: Providentially, that man’s sacrifice was needed for the community to be provided with that service. Hon TOM STEPHENS: It was a woman. Providentially is exactly right. The woman who died was a great artist whose work was highly regarded. It would appear that even with a functioning defibrillator she would not have survived her experience. It was an awful experience for the community to be put through. Fortunately, however, her loss of life has led to a flow of resources into that community. How many more places exist in this State that do not get the attention they deserve from this Government? The Government is distracted from its core responsibilities. It is preoccupied with so many ephemeral and non-core functions, such as driving its philosophical agenda and protecting ministers who are not doing their jobs across a range of portfolios, and not only for the areas of health, education, community safety and public transport. This Government is distracted from its responsibilities. The media is full of the coverage of the failure of the Minister for Fair Trading to respond to and discharge his ministerial duty concerning the finance broking issues. Regrettably, his failure is simply the tip of the iceberg. Ministers across the board have their eyes off the ball. I am afraid to have to tell the House that there are many areas where the needs of the community are growing and their problems are simply increasing while the Government fiddles. That adds to the recognition by the community of Western Australia that the Government will not and cannot rise to the challenge and overcome its ideological blind spots. The community realises that there is an urgent need for the people to have a chance to throw the current Government out of office and elect a Government that will bring the important issues back into focus. Hon N.F. Moore: It is extraordinary that the member should talk about that. Hon TOM STEPHENS: Not at all. The Gallop-led administration will focus on the areas of health, education, community safety and public transport. Hon N.F. Moore: Where will the money come from for those services, on which this Government has already spent record dollars? Hon TOM STEPHENS: If the Government has not given it all away in the meantime and if it has not signed off on the $110m for the convention centre before the election, I can guarantee that that $110m will be available for - Hon N.F. Moore: Will you not sign a contract if one is not signed before the election and you happen to win? Hon TOM STEPHENS: Absolutely not. . . . Hon N.F. Moore: Is that a core promise? I am asking you because you are the one who is telling me you are so proper. If the contract is not signed and the Labor Party should win the election, will you not sign it? Hon TOM STEPHENS: The Minister for Tourism knows that is the case: $110m of tax payers’ funds will not be spent by a Labor Government - Hon N.F. Moore: On a convention and exhibition centre and soccer stadium?

Point of Order Hon E.R.J. DERMER: The debate would be advanced if the Leader of the House allowed the Leader of the Opposition to get in a word edgeways. The PRESIDENT: The member is right; whether it is a valid point of order is another matter. The Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition appear to me to be engaged in some constructive dialogue.

Debate Resumed Hon TOM STEPHENS: Anyone who is familiar with the regional parts of Western Australia will understand the seriousness of the situation with which we are faced; that is, that it is absolutely imperative that this Government get back to its core responsibilities in its remaining weeks and months. For all of those reasons I commend this motion to the House. HON N.F. MOORE (Mining and Pastoral - Leader of the House) [11.59 am]: I have about one moment before the hour expires. The PRESIDENT: Order! The Leader of the House has no moments left as I am about to advise the House that, one hour having lapsed since the commencement of the House, the Leader of the House will require leave if this matter is to continue.

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Leave denied. Debate adjourned, pursuant to standing orders.

COMMITTEE REPORTS - CONSIDERATION Committee The Chairman of Committees (Hon J.A. Cowdell) in the Chair. Standing Committee on Estimates and Financial Operations - Financial Management of Prisons - Twenty-ninth Report Resumed from 7 September on the following motion moved by Hon Mark Nevill - That the report be noted. Hon MARK NEVILL: Last Thursday we adjourned the debate when we were discussing the very low level of deaths in custody at Rikers Island prison in New York. The Attorney General said the tougher the regime, the fewer deaths in custody. There may be some truth in that; I have not looked at the matter in detail. Hon Peter Foss: There is no scientific basis for saying that. Hon MARK NEVILL: The Attorney General should let me make my speech. I am unaware of the number of deaths in custody across the United States and cannot comment on the veracity of that statement. However, I do know of the number of deaths in custody at Rikers Island prison in New York. I note in the Hansard that Hon Muriel Patterson, by way of interjection, said there were 42 psychiatrists plus many health workers at that prison. One has only to watch the sitcoms on television to observe the emphasis that US culture puts on mental health analysis and that type of thing. When the committee visited Rikers Island prison, we saw many prisoners participating in a very intense psychological and psychiatric program, which appeared to be at the forefront of prisoner management. St Barnabas Hospital, a private company, has a 3-year contract to run those health and psychiatric services. The person in charge of the program is a psychiatrist from Adelaide who is a permanent resident of the United States. He is a very interesting young Australian of about 40-odd years and the son of a former BHP executive. He was based in New York, married a local and stayed there. He visits Australia every year and it would be interesting to get someone like him to look at our prison system. The mind boggles at running a health and psychiatric service in a prison containing 20 000 people, many of whom are remand prisoners and very difficult to deal with. In the report the committee listed in its recommendations many of the initiatives in that prison which assist that prison health service, such as compulsory training for prison officers in mental health matters and training of selected prisoners as observers of prisoners who are at risk. There are certain indicators of people at risk of self-harm or suicide, such as prisoners writing letters to people and tidying up or giving away their belongings; in fact, a whole suite of behaviour that a trained observer can note and anticipate and nip in the bud any problem that arises. The prison’s use of dormitories is an excellent idea. Prisoners at risk are placed close to the staff in a dormitory so that an eye can be kept on them. The selected prisoners, who are paid a small amount of money to observe prisoners at risk, must talk to each of them every 20 to 30 minutes so that there is constant interaction between them. It is amazing that the annual deaths in custody in that prison are down to three or four in 20 000. If that is a similar figure across United States prisons, perhaps it indicates that its prisons have good mental health programs. There may be other factors that contribute to that low but impressive figure. The committee recommended some legislative changes to the prison system. I believe those changes are in the pipeline of a government Bill to be brought to the Parliament. However, if my drafting efforts ever see the light of day, an amendment to the Road Traffic Act will give magistrates the option of imposing a community sentence rather than a fine or imprisonment. The committee recommended amendment to the Bail Act along the lines of the South Australian Act that requires an offender’s automatic appearance before a court within five days of remand due to an inability to raise a bail surety. Another amendment to either the Prisons Act or the Criminal Code could reduce the imprisonment rate so that a prisoner who absconds from a minimum security prison could be dealt with by internal prison procedures. For example, some Aboriginal people who have left minimum security prisons shortly before the end of their reasonably long sentences have been sentenced to another three, six or nine months. That is ridiculous. Instead, their privileges within the prison system could be withdrawn. One of the matters we did not refer to in the report - not because members were faint-hearted about it; it just did not get into the report - was the matter of family visits in prison. These are commonplace in the American and European systems. Hon Peter Foss: They have them in Victoria. Hon MARK NEVILL: I am getting to that point. I do not see why prisoners cannot have family visits. Many prisons have places at which families can stay. Hon Peter Foss: It is better in minimum than higher security prisons.

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Hon MARK NEVILL: Not necessarily. It is a very powerful privilege, which can be withdrawn when necessary. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: CCA has a women's prison in Victoria. Hon MARK NEVILL: Yes. I went to the women's prison in Dublin, which was amazing. It has family visiting areas in which people can stay overnight, and work release prisoner units with a door onto the street. Hon Peter Foss: We virtually have those here. Hon MARK NEVILL: This is in a maximum security prison. Hon Peter Foss: It is not for maximum security here. Hon MARK NEVILL: I think Dublin has only one major women’s prison. The work release facility is like a flat within the prison. The security is around the flat, and not between the flat and the street. It is an interesting variation. Hon Peter Foss: We have designed that at Nyandi, but unfortunately it has not been put in place yet. Hon MARK NEVILL: I am prepared to bat publicly for these reforms. Many people would complain about them; however, 98 per cent of prisoners are back on the streets within three to five years, and the idea is to stop them re- offending. These programs are good for prisoners and are very powerful privileges in managing people's behaviour. They should be given to everyone. For some reason, that aspect did not appear in the report. It was an initiative that Hon Muriel Patterson strongly supported, but she can speak for herself. I cannot remember other members’ views on that aspect. I touch now on the gap between research and practice. America has some excellent research that is ignored by the prison system - they are on two different planets. Germany has a wonderful system with good research that is followed through in the prison and probation systems. An empirical approach is adopted about what works. The Dutch and German systems have excellent statistics, and the Attorney General would not disagree that two or three years ago it was very difficult to obtain any current statistics on the Police Service, prison system and probation system by which to make any determination about whether our programs were effective. That matter is being addressed. Whoever is designing the total offender management system - TOMS - program should have a look at a few different systems around the world. It is important to collect the right statistics. Hon Peter Foss: TOMS comes from America. Hon MARK NEVILL: Really. Accurate information is important in research to be used to target programs for offending behaviour. It is also important to evaluate the effectiveness of programs, and to be provided to judges so they can think about how best to deal with the offender, along with advice from officers of the Ministry of Justice. One needs good, up-to-date statistics. One needs good research and good evaluation of the programs so that one reinforces what works and gets rid of ineffective programs. The report states that a strong empirical approach is needed to ensure that programs are achieving their objectives. Service level agreements were mentioned in the Smith report. The committee was very impressed by the service level agreement at Strangeways prison in Manchester in the UK. It is working well. It has little prospect of being transferred to other prisons as it cost a little more than do other systems. It is unfortunate. However, the larger cost is only in the up-front money. The prison is running an effective program and, in a sense, the benefit of that extra spending will accrue further down the track. The governor of Strangeways prison is an impressive character. He is a former Anglican priest who was professionally trained, and did not come through the warder system. We need some new blood in the hierarchy of the Western Australian prison system for an infusion of new ideas. Most of our superintendents have come up through the ranks, and one needs cross-fertilisation. Hon Peter Foss: Tony Leech, who is the director of metropolitan prisons, has come from outside. He is a different style of person. Hon MARK NEVILL: Yes. A problem is that many people are from the same mould. Hon Peter Foss: He is not like that. Hon MARK NEVILL: I am not talking about him. That is not to say that the superintendents are not good, but they need a wider exposure to ideas. Hon Peter Foss: Leavening. Hon MARK NEVILL: Yes. The committee also recommended expanding the Board of Visitors in prisons. I would be interested in that job one day. The system of official visitors in the UK is effective. One need not pay people for undertaking that job. The committee recommended three official visitors, and that one preferably be legally qualified - although that is not essential - and that two community representatives be appointed by the minister and be assigned to each prison. The official visitors should report directly to the minister, not the prisons. Hon Peter Foss: They already do.

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Hon MARK NEVILL: Some distillation of comments from the Board of Visitors are included in the annual report of Chief Inspector of Prisons in Great Britain. The main thrust of the committee's findings is that an explosion has occurred in prison populations in many countries. Prison is not a very effective way to deal with offending. We must move into the area of community sentences. We must make it effective and convince the public that it is more than a slap on the wrist with a wet lettuce; it is a serious sentence. People could better themselves and their community through the application of community sentences. Hon PETER FOSS: I thank Hon Mark Nevill and all members of the committee for a very constructive report. Probably the most important aspect is that it indicates an attitude. Quite apart from any recommendations that are made, this is a very clear message as to what we should be intending to achieve in our prisons. Probably the hardest change to make in the prison system, or in the justice system as a whole, is attitudinal; that is, getting people to change their attitudes. During the time I have been Minister for Justice I have found that attitudinal changes have been the most difficult of all. I am pleased that many of the recommendations made by the committee during the course of its investigations have already been carried out by the Ministry of Justice, I might add often with a bit of blood, toil, tears and sweat, because, as was pointed out by Hon Mark Nevill, there are some resistant attitudes and we need to get some fresh blood and some fresh ideas. The Director of Metropolitan Prisons, Mr Tony Leech, has experience in prisons and is a different style of prison person who has brought a good set of ideas to the system. I have asked a number of our superintendents to do exactly what Hon Mark Nevill did; that is, go and see prison practices elsewhere. It is interesting to see the reactions of the superintendents when they return from viewing different prison systems, some of which are worse than our system and some of which are better. However, if they see a system that is better than their system, it highlights what is either good or bad in their system. Sometimes a superintendent will return thinking we are extraordinarily lenient, and an example of that is the way we treat medium and maximum- security prisoners. In the English system many maximum-security prisoners do not leave their cells, and if they do so it is to go into a single exercise yard. Even a medium-security prisoner gets only one hour a day outside. Hon Muriel Patterson: We saw that. Hon PETER FOSS: I went to the Milton Keynes Prison and initially did not see anybody. Later I saw all the prisoners with their singlets off sitting outside in the sun. I thought, “What is this?” It was their one hour a day outside. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: In England that would probably be enough. Hon PETER FOSS: The prisoners need to get a bit of fresh air. At times prisons, particularly men’s prisons, have a certain smell and the prisoners need to get outside. Interestingly, what we were being criticised for during the lockdown at Casuarina Prison is standard practice in medium-security prisons in England and frequently those in maximum security do not get any time at all outside. Those prisons still have the lockdown that we had at Fremantle Prison, where 14 hours a day were spent in the cells and the rest of the day, except for one hour outside, was spent in the prison itself. Generally, the physical state of the prisons in England is lamentable. Milton Keynes Prison was built at enormous expense and it is said to be one of the best built prisons in the United Kingdom and no more similar prisons will be built because they are too expensive. However, the amenities at Casuarina Prison are way ahead of those at Milton Keynes. The facilities we have added at Hakea Prison, the new Acacia Prison and Albany Regional Prison are far superior in the quality of their physical surroundings. It is interesting to hear people criticise our prisons. The problem we have in Western Australia is that people have a very narrow view because they know only our own system, and I refer not only to prisons but also other facilities. I am not saying that we have reason, therefore, to be happy with the system, because the most important aspect is the way the prisons are run. I was pleased when Vivian Sterns and Andrew Taylor, two world authorities on the running of prisons, came to Western Australia for a conference and we took them to Riverbank Prison where we house most of our mentally impaired prisoners - about 20 out of a total of approximately 60. The intensive sexual offender treatment program operates there and there is a major art area. Those people said that the way Riverbank operated was world best practice. They were incredibly impressed by the way it was run. For instance, the prisoners are mentally impaired and they have individual programs in which they are taught basic skills such as reading and writing, because many of them have considerable difficulty in those areas. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: When you say mentally impaired, do you mean intellectually disabled? Hon PETER FOSS: Generally, yes. Some are mentally impaired as a result of various head injuries or petrol sniffing, but the majority are significantly intellectually disabled. The fascinating aspect of Riverbank is that it contains a number of prisoners who went there as juveniles and regarded it as a horror place to go. The other day a prisoner told me he could not get over the changes at Riverbank; he had never before been to a prison like it. He went to Riverbank with considerable foreboding because he had been there as a juvenile. When he went in a prison officer said, “Chuck your ID in the bin; you won’t be needing that. You will be called by your Christian name and you can call me by my Christian name.” For some time he could not quite figure out the place because the atmosphere was so different. He said it had an atmosphere totally different from that at any other prison he had been in.

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Admittedly, we cannot duplicate Riverbank everywhere. We could not do so at Casuarina because we have a sub-set of prisoners there who are different from those in the general prison population, and they have been chosen to go there. At Riverbank the non-intellectually disabled people have responsibility for the intellectually disabled. The prisoners take responsibility for the programs and the care of these people who in the main prison system are generally totally marginalised. In a prison such as Casuarina, the intellectually disabled are totally marginalised and ignored, whereas in this prison they are considered important people and real work is being done in that area, not only by the staff, but also by the prisoners. Recently at Riverbank the prisoners looked after a terminally ill patient. In other words, the prisoner needed palliative care and the prisoners washed, dressed and looked after him all day. That is a very important social skill for those people, because they are learning to care for others. Many of these people are in prison because they have never experienced these social skills themselves. Large numbers of the prisoners have had terrible childhoods. The concept of care and mutual respect for others is totally new. We are finding that Riverbank is having a remarkable impact on the prisoners who go there. We have not yet worked out its rehabilitative effects, but it is having a significant effect in terms of the prisoners as people. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: It has not been open long, but what is the average duration of stay? Hon PETER FOSS: The average duration of stay is quite long. These are fairly long-term prisoners. We have not yet worked out how we will get some of these prisoners out into the community, because they come under the Criminal Law (Mentally Impaired Defendants) Act. Riverbank is a place where they can be looked after, because we cannot let them out at the moment. This prison does not have such a rapid turnover as some of the other prisons. It is fascinating that this is happening in a prison that was a juvenile facility and was seen by the young people as being an absolute horror of a place to go. Juveniles returning there have said that, apart from the physical aspects of the prison, it is almost unrecognisable. Indeed, it is unrecognisable physically to some extent because everything has been freshly painted and it is clean and well cared for. The prisoners look after everything and they have done some fantastic work on the gardens, so altogether it is a remarkable place. It is true that some of our prison facilities are a disgrace and I refer to the following: Parts of Karnet Prison Farm; Pardelup Prison Farm needs to be updated but it has been looked after nicely; Eastern Goldfields Regional Prison is a disgrace; Broome Regional Prison is a disgrace mainly because it is hugely overcrowded and we need a new prison, but the physical aspects are all right; and Wooroloo Prison Farm is gradually being improved physically, but still needs money spent on it. The physical state of our prisons is very good. The official regime in our prisons is considerably more liberal than that in, say, the United Kingdom, and it is considerably more liberal than the regimes in most parts of the United States. The area in which we have been lacking is our attention to programs in industry. I am obviously very keen to develop that. It is a remarkable problem. I suppose it is a matter of getting the crises out of the way and then starting to deal with things we want to do. The first thing I had to deal with was the overcrowding. I am pleased to say that the director general and I have managed to get an agreement with Treasury on the proper funding of prisons in terms of accommodation and the money needed to run them. Having got that out of the way, it meant that we could start planning for the future. The second thing that we did was to predict what our prison population would be. Nobody in Australia had any way of predicting that. When I became minister, we had absolutely no idea how many people would be in our prisons in a month, a year or two years. Hon Mark Nevill: Is it too politically risky to have a target for imprisonment like we have a target for workers compensation charges? Hon PETER FOSS: I will move on to that. I think we can. The first thing we had to do was to deal with the problem. I am pleased that we have dealt with that problem and we have a very accurate predictive model of what our prison population will be. We have done that by going further down the process. One of the advantages of having a Ministry of Justice is that we have all the statistics back to the time that a person first appeared in court. We have been able to statistically plot how many people plead guilty, how many plead not guilty, the period between their first appearing and their eventual sentencing, the general rate of sentencing and the length of sentencing, and we have a feedback mechanism. Before we could control anything, we had to find out what we were controlling. We now have this short- term model. We have also been working on medium and long-term models, but I suppose in many ways the short-term model was the most important one for us so that we would know how many people would be in prison during the next six months. That model gives us a high and a low band, and it has turned out to be extremely accurate. Many people pooh-poohed our work and said that it would never work out, but it has worked extremely well. Having got that part under control, we then had to look at why people were in prison and to see what we could do about it. As I think the Chamber knows, I have been trying to deal with a number of problems. It takes a bit of time to get through legislation. For instance, a question was raised about options in the Road Traffic Act. I am trying to remember where that Bill is. I think the fines enforcement Bill is in the other House. In any event, it is on the way through. People who were convicted of driving without a licence for the fourth or fifth time were being sent to jail, because the only other alternative was a $1 000 fine and obviously those people had no means to pay that. There is a myth that says it is to do with non-payment of fines. Those people are not being sent to jail for non-payment of fines suspensions; generally speaking, they are being sent to jail for driving under the influence suspensions.

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Hon Mark Nevill: You should send them out to the bush and make them work. Hon PETER FOSS: Another string in my bow is to deal with people who go to jail for addictive behaviour. Anybody who gets four drink-driving convictions has definitely got an alcohol problem. It is not just an accident; they have an alcohol problem. They have an addiction, and if they do not face up to that fact, they really have a problem. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: Not to mention the public hazard. Hon PETER FOSS: Definitely. That is why it cannot be ignored. At the moment all a court can do is to send those people to jail. The court cannot say, “Go back and keep driving on the road and killing people.” People must realise that if a drunk driver does not kill somebody, he is lucky. If a person gets four drink-driving convictions, that person definitely has an alcohol problem, and that should be addressed. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: If a person gets nine convictions, he gets an extraordinary licence. Hon PETER FOSS: That might have been slightly misrepresentative of what the decision said. The decision said that those people must be considered for an extraordinary licence. Whether they are given one is another matter altogether. We know that many people go to jail because of drug addictions. Many people who are in jail for drug offences are people who would have been in jail anyway. However, a number of people only go to jail because of their addictive behaviour. Gambling is another example. Members would be quite surprised at the number of people who end up in jail because of a gambling addiction. Fraud and armed robbery are usually the manifestations of a gambling addiction. Another problem is petrol sniffing. Petrol sniffing, paint sniffing and glue sniffing are particularly dangerous, not so much because of the behaviour of the people while they are under the influence of those solvents but because of the permanent brain damage that those solvents cause to them. Earlier on I mentioned people who are mentally impaired. Some of those people impaired themselves by petrol, glue or other solvent sniffing. Therefore, it is clear that apart from just putting people in jail and trying to treat them in jail, we must have an ability to get to those people prior to any mental impairment being caused or prior to their getting themselves into a state whereby they must go to jail and stay there for a lengthy period. It would be far better if we could prevent that. I am also addressing the concept of a compulsory residential addiction course, through which we hope to be able to get people to address the underlying cause of their offending behaviour. Another area that the Government has addressed is imprisonment for non-payment of fines. Imprisonment for non- payment of fines has been reduced significantly. As far as men are concerned, there is no reason, under state law, that a person should go to jail for non-payment of fines. Only if people fail to cooperate in undertaking a work and development order will they go to jail for non-payment of a fine. It is different for women, and that is another matter I am trying to address. Women frequently cannot do work and development orders because of family responsibilities. Hon Mark Nevill: While you are on that topic, those three officers in the eastern goldfields who got into trouble over their travel allowances did a wonderful job out in the central desert. Hon PETER FOSS: Fantastic. Hon Mark Nevill: My view is that they have paid for their misdemeanour, and some of them should probably be re- employed because they were very effective. Hon PETER FOSS: I directed the department to find a better way of remunerating people for travel, because not only did we lose those officers in the eastern goldfields but we also lost our entire Aboriginal mediation unit for the same type of fraud. Although there is no excuse for the fraud that was perpetrated, I still think that we should have a travel allowance remuneration program that does not make it so easy or so desirable to perpetrate those frauds. Getting back to imprisonment for non-payment of fines, there is a problem with women. I recognise that problem, and it must be addressed. Because of their family responsibilities, women find it very hard to do work and development orders. Maybe we will have to provide creches or something of that nature; otherwise, women will not be able to do their WDOs and they will end up in jail. Another area over which we do not have control is federal fines. Although Western Australia has done everything to stop people going to jail for non-payment of fines, people are being imprisoned under federal law. The classic example is the Indonesian fishermen. They come here to fish illegally and, when convicted, are fined $20 000. If they default, they are sent to jail for six or 12 months. Of course they will not pay a $20 000 fine. Therefore, they are in jail here for six to 12 months. The ludicrous thing is that federal imprisonment is now part of our overall statistic, and it represents close to 10 per cent of the total. That is a lot of prisoners when one considers how few federal offences there are on the statute books. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: Who pays for them? Hon PETER FOSS: We do. That is an interesting point. Under the Constitution, we are obliged to take those prisoners and we do not make any charge for them. What is more offensive is that once a person becomes a prisoner, that person is no longer entitled to Medicare benefits. Once a person is in jail, even if he is a federal prisoner and has paid his Medicare levy all his life, he is not covered by Medicare. Not only must we hold, feed and house him for free, but also

[Thursday, 14 September 2000] 1245 provide all health care for free, with no reimbursement from the Federal Government. Most of the overseas prisoners, who tend to be drug smugglers, are federal prisoners. They get long sentences of eight, nine, 10 or even 15 years. Some of the long-term, non-fines enforcement-type federal prisoners are of that nature. They are very costly for us to support and we receive no contribution from the Federal Government. That is a problem and to some extent I do not have control over it. I have made representations to the Federal Government that it is ridiculous that it should preach to us about various aspects of our regimes while it blithely sends people to jail for non-payment of fines. That is another area with which we must deal. We have dealt with the question of short-term sentences. We abolished the capacity to jail people for less than three months, and if a sentence is less than six months, reasons must be given. My only concern is that the judiciary might start giving longer sentences. One of the ways around that is to remand people in custody instead of remanding them on bail. I do not think there is any basis for doing that, but some magistrates and justices of the peace have done so. The judiciary in the eastern goldfields has tended to do that. Hon Mark Nevill: It has its virtues at times. Hon PETER FOSS: It has its virtues at times, but I would not recommend, and I do not think the committee recommended it. In fact, the committee did not recommend that people be given bail. Hon Mark Nevill: On that point, sometimes if a juvenile has to ride in the back of a police van from Kalgoorlie to Perth, stay there for a couple of nights and ride all the way back to Kalgoorlie, it does him a bit of good. Hon PETER FOSS: I accept that. Many people subscribe to the view that a short, sharp shock is a good idea. I am sure that, appropriately done, that is so; however, some people overdo it. The member is right. We know that juvenile offenders fall into a number of different categories. For some, that sort of shock would have a very salutary effect. However, I would not recommend it as a general rule. I have dealt with the physical prisons and the funding of prisons. I am now trying to tackle the diversion or the conditional release area. It is an important area, which traditionally has been neglected and under-funded by Governments around the world. I have directed the Ministry of Justice to present a proper business case for community-based services. To get it through Treasury, I must be able to demonstrate savings, and I am sure I can do so. If I can keep people from offending and going to jail, the community will see real savings in the reduction of both crime and imprisonment. Community-based service is considerably cheaper than imprisoning people. As Hon Mark Nevill mentioned, it must be a real alternative. It is not enough that an offender is on an order and does do not do anything. There must be a real attempt to get that person to change his behaviour, which, when necessary, involves some form of restorative justice. That is the next big challenge. I have found that if I put a proper business case to Treasury, I get the money. The problem was that we could not put a proper business case until we started getting some figures and costs. When I first became minister, if I asked the Ministry of Justice for any information whatsoever, the response was a guess, and usually a few days later I got a correction; it really had no idea. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: The point Hon Mark Nevill made about research and statistics is obviously central to your business case. Hon PETER FOSS: I am glad the member mentioned that, because it reminds me to raise another point. When Dr Mike McColl was the acting director general, he set up an evaluation committee for all our programs. He used the good offices of Professor Fiona Stanley and a number of people in the epidemiology area who are used to evaluating and statistically analysing the effect of things. After we set it up, other departments started borrowing it to set up their method of evaluation. Now, when people apply for funding for programs, they must justify how they will evaluate the programs. A classic example in which we had no idea was the Laverton work camp. We had no idea what we had achieved, because when we were evaluating it at the end, we had no idea what we had at the beginning. We had no idea what sort of sample we had. It was almost impossible, other than by anecdote, to say what it had done. Hon Mark Nevill: It was too small to sample anyway. Hon PETER FOSS: And it was too far away. It was incredibly expensive because of where it was, and there were more economical ways of doing the same thing. Hon Mark Nevill: That is what happens when you make commitments at by-elections. Hon PETER FOSS: We have learnt from that. The current work camps are achieving remarkable changes. I decided that we would set up an evaluation committee, because I did not want to go through a whole lot of processes and, at the end, not know whether there had been an improvement. It is still a difficult area. We do not have sufficiently large samples of people, nor do we have the capacity to compare those samples with people who have not been through the programs, to get any true evaluation. At least we are trying to get some of that base data. We have a little more than we had before. We are also doing other things. There was a program on Foxtel about what we have in the way of community-based services. We have a risk assessment program that was created in conjunction with the Crime Research Centre at the University of Western Australia. Factors about an offender can be put into this system. It is an actuarial system and it

1246 [COUNCIL] estimates the likelihood of that person being re-arrested. We have based it on re-arresting, not on re-conviction, because the information we are inputting is on arrest rates, so the information we are getting is on arrest rates. That gives us an aid to estimate the risk of a particular offender’s re-offending. It is a well-constructed, actuarially justified program. When the factors are put in, it gives not only the risk, but also the reliability of the estimate. Although the sample we are using is very broad, if various factors are put in, there may be subsets of that sample which are so small that the predictability would be low. It gives an idea of not only what the re-arrest rate is likely to be, but also the reliability of the estimate. One of the factors could be taken out to get an idea of what particular part is making it an unreliable estimate. That has enabled us to work out which offenders need the most care. Another important issue is breaching, which is often misunderstood in society. A high breach rate does not necessarily mean that there are problems with the offender; a high breach rate means there is a strict regime for breaching. “Breaching” is the term used for community-based services officers saying, “That breach justifies our terminating your conditional release and reporting you to the appropriate body so action can be taken.” The breach could be merely a failure to report, or it could be the commission of another offence. Hon Mark Nevill: Or arriving late. Hon PETER FOSS: The first question that must be asked when a person has not carried out his punishment relates to the risk he poses. That is done by looking at his offending behaviour. A different attitude would be taken to a serial rapist who did not turn up from that taken to somebody who was picked up for a graffiti offence. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: What would a serial rapist be doing on a community-based order? Hon PETER FOSS: He could be on parole and at the end of the sentence, or he could be out on bail. Community- based services are responsible for people who have been released without imprisonment or fine and who are on bail or early release after serving a non-parole period. They cannot all be treated the same way. Those running community- based services must have some idea about how much of a risk a person presents to the community. The system was put in place because that distinction must be made. Community-based services now deal with a higher proportion of higher-risk offenders because of the success of our other diversion programs. As many people are treated through early diversion programs, the residue are the higher-risk offenders. Although the figures seem fairly steady, the lower-risk offenders have been removed from the system. It is the same with the fines enforcement system: Most fines are now paid without enforcement and the people caught in the system are the harder cases. Large numbers of them had been in the old system for years. I instigated a fairly vigorous write-off policy to try to deal with that to some extent. Only the recent fines are collected now. It would not be effective for the Fines Enforcement Registry to spend 90 per cent of its time collecting 10-year-old fines instead of being as hot as mustard on the people who have recently received a fine. We are trying to implement the system so that enforcement is immediate rather than continuing for months and years. That is working and we now have a higher rate of payment without enforcement. Hon Mark Nevill: If the system becomes really effective, the recidivism rate will increase. Hon PETER FOSS: The member is right. People will stop offending if the system is effective. However, those who do offend are the hardcore recidivists. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: Of course, that is the central objective. Hon PETER FOSS: Yes. I am glad the member mentioned that, because one of the criticisms is that the cost per offender of our community-based services appears higher than the costs of programs run in other States. The reason for that is that the system now deals only with those who should be dealt with. Other costs have also increased. The cost of keeping an offender in prison has increased because fine defaulters - who are generally given short-term sentences - are no longer in the system. The huge quantity of people on minimum sentences going in and out of the system were part of the denominator that determined cost, which pushed down the overall cost per offender. That cost increases as soon as jail sentences are reserved for the hardcore offenders. Similarly, the number of people going through community-based services programs has decreased, but the people in the programs are from the tougher end of the market. That is how it should be. Statistics can be deceptive. In funding community-based services, the Government must account for the fact that it now deals with more serious offenders. The business model we are developing for community-based services will try to recognise the mix of offenders. I am pleased to say that our juvenile justice policy is working. The numbers at Banksia Hill Detention Centre have decreased to 87. It has a capacity of 120, which it almost reached at one stage. The number of offenders appearing before the Children’s Court has also decreased. The number being diverted has increased, but the overall rate has dropped. More statistics are coming in. The new total offender management system has not yet received much information. Many of the fields will be filled in as prisoners are assessed. Hon Mark Nevill: Is it operational? Hon PETER FOSS: It is, but some people are still using the old convergent technologies operating system. TOMS needs more work to make it completely user-friendly. However, it will be a better system than CTOS. People need to

[Thursday, 14 September 2000] 1247 be encouraged to move away from their old methods of working. The system has a long way to go before it can deliver the statistics. When that happens, we will be able to better deal with some of the problems. The system will be able to identify a prisoner with a particular skill. A couple of artists in the Riverbank Detention Centre prison population recently left. They were either sent to a minimum security prison or released. The prison’s industrial officer had engaged those prisoners to teach art to other prisoners. When they moved on he did not have anyone to teach art to the prisoners. I told him to find an artist in the system and transfer him to Riverbank so that the program could continue. That will happen automatically under TOMS. It will indicate that a certain prison has an industrial officer with two prison artists to help him. If those artists are moved, the system will find a replacement among the general population. In this case, an art teacher in the system was moved to Riverbank, and he is doing very well. Another prisoner at Riverbank writes and produces plays. I have seen two of his productions, and the last one was brilliant. That program is remarkable because it is useful in prisoner rehabilitation. The last play was written for the intellectually disabled, which is no mean feat. It was absolutely brilliant and the funniest thing I have ever seen. The prisoner used musical cues so the prisoners knew when to go on. The performers had a general idea of their lines, although most of them were adlibbed. It worked brilliantly. The experience has had an enormous effect on those prisoners who had been previously marginalised in the system. It is a fantastic idea to use those skills. Another prisoner is a professional ballroom dancer and he choreographed the play. Those skills are used to rehabilitate not only the person with the skills but also the other prisoners. The ability to pick those people from the system is a resource that must be used. I have tried to make a difference in the prison system by encouraging people to recognise Aboriginal culture, which TOMS does. Despite the huge over-representation of Aboriginal people in the prison population - they account for over a third - they effectively did not exist under CTOS. Under TOMS, a person is not simply listed as “Aboriginal”, the system prompts the user for his language group. It finds out where the prisoner comes from by automatically asking if he belongs to one of a range of language groups. The prison service recognises that people from different language groups have different ways of doing things. There is a major difference in attitudes between desert, saltwater and freshwater people. Kangaroo and emu meat are now provided in the prisons. We quickly found that although some people will eat one kind of kangaroo, others will eat a different kind. Desert people do not eat the same kind of kangaroo as freshwater people. It involved a change in attitude by the prison system for Aboriginal food to be provided. As a result, it was found that different kinds of kangaroo meat are preferred. Prison management experienced a bit of a cultural shock in learning what is important to Aboriginal people. Each prison has an area solely for Aboriginal people in which they can celebrate their art and have a yarn. Hon Mark Nevill was there when two prisoners in the Eastern Goldfields Regional Prison put on a play in language. It was fantastic to see. The performers were a bit hesitant and had to be called four times before coming onstage, but it was a brilliant play. We all sat and heard a play in language. It was fascinating to see the non-language speaking people try to work out what was going on. It was a very special, salutary experience. Debate adjourned, pursuant to standing orders. Sitting suspended from 1.00 to 2.00 pm

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY Amendment to Motion Resumed from 13 September, after the following amendment had been moved by Hon Kim Chance - And further, regrets to advise His Excellency that the Court Government is failing to give adequate resources and support to cope with the health and medical needs of the residents of metropolitan and regional Western Australia. HON CHERYL DAVENPORT (South Metropolitan) [2.00 pm]: I rise to respond to the speech delivered here some time ago by the Administrator, Hon Geoffrey Kennedy. I welcome the new Governor, Lieutenant General John Sanderson, and his wife to Western Australia and I hope their time here is good and positive. The Westar Rules football competition is not spoken about very often in these circles. However, I am a very longstanding and loyal supporter of the East Perth Football Club and I want to say, beauty, we won the 2000 grand final last Saturday! I can remember the last time East Perth won the grand final. Hon N.F. Moore: You are too young for that. Hon CHERYL DAVENPORT: It was 22 years ago. I remember it because my son was being born and I was unable to attend. It has been a long time between drinks and I am proud to place on the record my congratulations to the Royals, who have spent much time in the doldrums. I was very disappointed that seniors did not rate a mention in the Administrator’s speech. That was a grave oversight by the Government given that 14 per cent of people in Western Australia are aged 60 and over. In the next 15-20 years that population will increase to approximately 23 per cent. Both this Government and potential Governments should be planning for the fact that in the next 20 years almost a quarter of the Western Australian population will be aged over 60. We probably have a 5 per cent window of opportunity to plan for that increase in our aged population.

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Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that most of the emphasis on seniors these days is on the 15 per cent who need some kind of care. Five per cent of the national seniors population are in nursing homes and another 10 per cent need some care in their own homes. However, 85 per cent of the 60 and over-60 aged population are “well aged”. Without excluding the 15 per cent of seniors who need care, the community needs to harness the energy and expertise of the 85 per cent of people who are well aged. The well-aged seniors would relish the opportunity of participating more fully in the community to work towards rebuilding communities. A great deal can be done by people aged 60 and over who have retired and who choose to contribute to society by linking generations. Many people with whom I have worked as opposition spokesperson on this portfolio have acknowledged that, as a community, we are not utilising the skills and expertise of that group of people. It will be to the detriment of our society if we continue to ignore them. I place my support behind a group of people from non-government organisations and the Office of Seniors in encouraging the media to consider employing a mature-age journalist to cover the issues affecting senior citizens in this State. Six or so months ago, I spent some time trying to explain to a young journalist from The West Australian the issues confronting seniors needing community care. I do not necessarily blame the journalist, but journalists are generally young and have not had the life experiences necessary to understand that many groups of people, not the least people aged 60 and over, have a right to positive more than negative media representation. I am sure I do not need to remind members that most of the publicity surrounding seniors is either about violence or the inadequacy of aged care in our nursing homes. Although those issues should be aired in the media, it could be done with far less sensationalism. People who genuinely understand the issues surrounding ageing, both negative and positive, should be employed by the various sectors of the media. I congratulate the Chief Executive Officer of Anglican Homes, Paul Wilmot, and the Director of the Positive Ageing Foundation, Diane Moran, for the letter that they wrote to The West Australian recently raising some issues about senior citizens and calling on The West Australian to employ a journalist specifically to cover issues on ageing. Part of the letter reads - The sad reality is that the acute care, long term care and community care systems in both policy and practice are under funded, dysfunctional and seriously lacking in any linkages. Successive Federal and State Governments seem to consistently ignore these realities which have an ongoing serious adverse affect on older people and the carers and providers supporting them. Unfortunately all we see is the evidence of people being ill-treated in nursing homes, and we never hear the full story of what is happening in the community with access to care. A range of other people signed this letter, and I will read their names into the public record. They are Ms Judy Hogben, Executive Director of the Office of Seniors Interests; Mr Vaughan Harding, President of the Aged and Community Services WA and the CEO of Uniting Church Homes; Mr Ross Bradshaw, CEO of Silver Chain Nursing Association; Mr Frank Schaper, CEO of the Alzheimer’s Association WA; Mr Wayne Belcher, CEO of Churches of Christ Homes and Community Services; Ms Maureen Helen, Manager Advocare; Dr Penny Flett, CEO of Brightwater Care Group; and Mr Ken Ridge, CEO of Baptist Care. That probably covers most of the senior people in that sector. If those people are calling for those changes I hope that The West Australian will take some measures to implement those requests. By way of letter to the management of The West Australian I have added my support for such an initiative, so that the reporting on seniors issues becomes more positive, rather than negative as it is currently. One of the statistics that was raised in the letter that went to The West Australian from those organisations was that in the area of dementia care alone, since 1987 there has been a 250 per cent rise in the numbers of people who are sufferers of dementia and Alzheimer’s across our community. Given the projected increase in the number of aged people to 25 per cent of the population that will occur over the next 20 years, we expect a significant and continued rise in those diseases - unless a cure is found. It is incredibly important that those issues be picked up and reported on in a positive way. The second issue I raise relates to the Adopt a Pollie scheme which is run for people with disabilities and in which many members in this place are participants. More than 12 months ago I was delighted to come into this Chamber and praise the objectives of that scheme, despite some misgivings that it was setting up huge expectations that perhaps politicians would not be able to deliver. To some extent my fears have proved to be correct. Over the past 12 months my office staff and I have spent a significant amount of time in advocacy on behalf of the young woman who adopted me as her politician. This young woman is by no means incapable of stating her own case. She turned 30 this year. She has cerebral palsy. She walks with difficulty and uses sticks to propel herself forward. She has some speech impediments, but in general does not lack ability to advocate on her own behalf. Without family or a partner who can advocate on her behalf, we have become the only people who can take on that role. She tries very hard to advocate on issues that are of concern to her so that she maintains a reasonable quality of life. However, the problem, which she mentioned to me in the adoption ceremony that took place at the City of Melville, is that people do not take any notice of her. She is not seen as a human being who is able to advocate on her own behalf. She cited examples to me of being with another person and asking a question, only to find that the response is directed to, and the eye contact is made with,

[Thursday, 14 September 2000] 1249 the able bodied person, not to her - the person with the disability. Although the Adopt a Pollie scheme raises the knowledge of politicians, I am fearful that we are being set up to become full-time advocates. Jennifer has give me permission to raise some of the issues with which we have been confronted over the past 12 months. This scheme needs to be rethought. It is unfair to set up expectations that cannot be met. Some of the agencies we have had to deal with over the past 12 months include Homeswest, Centrelink, the Disability Services Commission, the local area coordinators of home and community care and appropriate respite services. One of reason that Jennifer was keen to participate in the adoption ceremony was to get some assistance with fundraising for a massage chair. One of the big downsides for people with cerebral palsy is that it attacks their muscle capacity and impedes movement. She does not want to require institutionalised care at an early age; she is keen to make sure she is as active as possible. Walking with sticks is difficult, so she needs a lot of massage to various parts of her body. The massage chairs that would assist her to stay mobile cost in the vicinity of $8 000. Obviously, a person with a disability who must rely on a pension and who has no family is very hard pressed to raise the money required to provide such an aid. We assisted by approaching various service organisations. I am very pleased to pay tribute to the Riverton branch of the Perth Soroptimist group that has taken on a fundraising commitment for Jennifer. To date it has raised about $3 500. However, that is far short of the money required to provide the aid. Another event has impacted on Jennifer in the past 12 months. The vehicle in which she was being transported by a Melville care organisation to a local centre for some therapy was involved an accident. Obviously she did not cause it, but she was a victim. That has led to her requiring a range of physiotherapy sessions to address a lower back problem. Of course, the injury exacerbates her disability and there is no longer clarity about what problems were caused by her disability and what were the results of the accident. She has experienced many difficulties deciding whether she should pursue a third party claim, settle out of court and so on. My electorate staff have accompanied her to a range of appointments with various legal officers and others to ensure that she is not treated inappropriately. It appears that she will settle out of court. We are now nine months down the track and the impediments to getting anyone to take notice are such that she does not have the staying power. That is a particular problem when one has a disability that is causing pain. She wants to get on with her life. She will settle out of court because it is all too hard. She should not have to do that, but unfortunately that is the way of the world. In September 1998, Jennifer was successful in her application for the construction of a purpose-built home in Willagee. As part of the planning to build a home specific to her needs, she met regularly with the architect and an occupational therapist from the Fremantle office of the Ministry of Housing. She was actively involved in the entire planning process. That is excellent, and I applaud the Ministry of Housing for making it possible for her to get what she needs with the amount of money she has been able to put towards the home. Her unit was completed in March this year. Following a request from Jennifer, my staff and I have been involved in a number of the property inspections. At one of those inspections we found that the bath had been installed 50 millimetres higher than stipulated on the plans. Jennifer was told that, given budgetary constraints, the bath could not be reinstalled. The purpose of the bath was to allow her to have water therapy to deal with her disability. Had we not been there, that issue would not have been resolved. However, because we were and were able to advocate on her behalf, it was agreed that a wooden platform would be installed so that she could safely lift her legs over the edge of the bath. This is a purpose-built home, but the plans were not followed. That bath would have sat there forever unused because it would have been inappropriate and dangerous. This might seem like nit-picking, but the bottom line is that we are talking about a person’s quality of life. Without our advocacy, I have no doubt that nothing would have been done. Jennifer’s unit also had many door latches and handles that had to be adjusted to suit her height. This all happened despite the fact that the home was purpose built for a person with a disability. Three weeks after Jennifer moved into the unit, the gardens were still not landscaped and sand was spread on the paths, which is very dangerous for someone with such a disability because it makes the surface very slippery. She rang my office in desperation in April to see whether we could pressure the Ministry of Housing to complete the work. We were informed that the architect had not told the ministry that the project had been completed. Jennifer had made many calls prior to our involvement. However, it is only when we get involved that anything happens. I despair for other people with disabilities if this is the kind of treatment they are getting from government agencies. Three or four days before she was due to move, Jennifer’s local area coordinator at the Disability Services Commission still had not found anyone to move her belongings. My office staff helped her to pack her belongings so they could be loaded onto a removal truck. That is not good enough. The DSC and the local area coordinator had plenty of notice of the removal date. Surely the coordinator should have been involved. In June I asked a question in Parliament. In response, I was provided with the local area coordinator’s statement of duties. I understood that those occupying these positions would be case managers or the equivalent. The job specification lists the frequency at which the duties must be undertaken. The first duty is coordination, which is followed by a number of subsets, which are - Co-ordinates effective individual and family services in a local area.

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I have not seen much of that. It continues - Identifies, in collaboration with the individual and family, immediate and future needs. That does not happen. One of the problems confronting this young woman is that she does not have a family. She is the only point of contact for the local area coordinator. These tasks are supposed to be undertaken daily. It always falls to Jennifer to ring him; it is never the other way around. This local area coordinator never initiates contact with her. It continues - Generates a range of responses to identified individual, family or community needs. Liaises with relevant other agencies to improve access for people with disabilities to their services. Promotes the development of new services in local communities. Advocates for and on behalf of individuals and promotes self advocacy. I have not seen a lot of evidence of local area coordinators promoting self-advocacy. From my experience, it is all done by the person with the disability. It seems to me that rather than employ local area coordinators to assist people with a disability, they are employed to contain the Government’s costs of dealing with people with a disability. I question whether enough resources are being provided to local area coordinators when I see the number of people whom they are expected to service in particular areas. Jennifer is now in Willagee, but she was in Ardross. As at 31 May 2000, the local area coordinator for Willagee had 51 people with disabilities to service; the LAC for Melville also had 51; the LAC for Coolbellup had 61; and the LAC for Hilton had 64. They are large numbers, and they mean that the job description for local area coordinators is not realistic. Many holes need to be plugged to assist people with disabilities to deal with the situation in which they find themselves. The other problem for Jennifer is that because she is a fighter and wants to stay well for as long as possible, she is almost dropping through the cracks in the system. Her disability is not severe enough to allow her to command the resources that some other people can command, but that does not mean that she should not have proper access to those resources that will allow her to remain in the community, because the end cost of caring for people with a disability in institutional care is far greater than the cost of providing a reasonable service for people in their own home. Some of the things we have had to confront on Jennifer’s behalf have spoilt our potential to develop a close personal relationship, and every contact we have had where we have thought we could have a bit of fun has inevitably turned into a debriefing session because of the difficulties Jennifer is having in the community. Jennifer does not want to need to rely on us. When I agreed that I would be an adoptee, I said that I intended to retire and not recontest my seat at the next election, and that I did not know what would happen when I retired and who would do the next lot of advocacy. I have been very careful not to raise Jennifer’s expectation that I am the only port of call when a difficulty arises, but because it is very difficult for her to find other people who are prepared to take on that responsibility, any difficulties are increasingly coming to my office for us to deal with them. The program should be evaluated and some rethinking should occur, because it is unfair to create expectations that cannot be met. I urge the people who are dealing with this program to see whether there is some other way of creating a more positive relationship between the politician and the person whom he or she has adopted. I will now raise an issue that I have thought about long and hard and that I guess quite a lot of people here have not thought about much apart from what they have read in the local newspaper, which I do not think is great newspaper reporting. That issue is the plight of the refugees - the so-called boat people - at the Curtin and Port Hedland detention centres. I am talking about this issue as a member of Amnesty International and also as a humanist. It has come to my attention of late that many people, mainly men, are being released from detention centres with temporary visas and are being turned out onto the streets of Perth. I have some drawings that have been prepared by an Afghani or Iraqi refugee by the name of Monnir Mashkour, who is in the Curtin Detention Centre and has agreed to these pictures being published in any newspaper or magazine so that these refugees can announce their message to the public. These pictures are very graphic and depict what he sees as the plight of the refugees. The first picture is of a headstone and illustrates the length of time that these people have had to stay in a detention centre. The second picture is of a person wrapped in barbed wire, because that is obviously how these people feel. The third picture is of a person running away from a crammed detention centre because it is all too hard. I am not sure of the significance of the next picture, but it is a picture of a fingerprint, with a little face appearing at one side of it and a foot appearing at the bottom of it. The next picture shows a counting of the days and a person cowering in the corner of a cell. The next picture is of a woman who is pregnant, and there are chains on both her and her child. That is the kind of thing these people are confronting. I seek leave to table those pictures. Leave granted. [See paper No 237.] Hon CHERYL DAVENPORT: The issue is not easy to talk about but as a humanist I feel that these people are not getting fast enough attention. I want to try to explain the circumstances being dealt with by the support group that has formed in Western Australia, particularly when people are released with temporary visas that enable them only to

[Thursday, 14 September 2000] 1251 access special benefits from social security. In the vicinity of 30 unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, many of whom are unsure of their birth date, have been put in the charge of a fourth-year social work student and are being housed in flats in the Balga area. They have been requested to live in group housing but because they are minors they cannot sign a contract to be able effectively to do that. I am aware that one of our former colleagues, the former member for Kenwick, Hon Judyth Watson, has been working to assist those people when they are released, through a group called the Coalition Assisting Refugees After Detention. The group was formed in January this year by a few individuals who turned up to see what could be done at the Noalimba Accommodation and Conference Centre in Mt Pleasant. The group continues to recruit volunteers. The people who make up the group are from very varied backgrounds and are of different ages. They offer what they can, which is quite limited. The goal of the group is to welcome refugees by providing some of the assistance and support they need when they come out of detention centres. Members of the group indicate that in January, when the first group of refugees was released, people were absolutely stunned that those people could be assessed as refugees yet denied any basic settlement services for essential refugee settlement. Since January, groups have formed in all States of Australia and taken on similar responsibilities. One that is different from all the others is in Adelaide. The group pays credit to the compassionate leadership of the Premier of South Australia, the Liberal Premier John Olsen, in the acknowledgment and access to services that the State has provided, because it is unique. It comprises an inter-agency strategy group, one of the members of which is the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. I want to give some of the reasons that these people are seeking asylum. They are mostly from Afghanistan and Iraq. Although the histories of those two countries are quite different, their rulers have established despotic, persecutory regimes that practice every kind of violation of human rights possible. It is fairly commonly known that agencies such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have been observers in those two countries. There is no doubt those countries suffer grave civil strife, and in Afghanistan it is probably worse than anywhere else. Afghanistan has no constitution, no rule of law and no independent judiciary. Afghani refugees usually make persecution claims on three grounds; that is, ethnicity, religion and political affiliation. Additionally, they are mostly young men who were on brutal notice of conscription to fight their own people. It is unrealistic to suggest that they must seek asylum in Pakistan or Iran. The Iraqis have been exiled for seven or eight years in either Iran or Syria. They fled following the post-war uprising in 1991 when over half a million people were slaughtered by Sadam Hussain. The Iraqi refugees are mainly from the south of the country and are persecuted for their Shiite beliefs or resistance to conscription into Hussain’s public guard. There is no right of protest, and certainly no right of freedom of speech. A very strict and oppressive order is imposed. In both countries an extreme interpretation of Islamic punishments for crime prevails, such as public execution and amputations. Beatings are a common form of summary justice. Sadistic torture for resistance is not uncommon. There is no Australian embassy in Afghanistan or Iraq. Therefore, the question for the queue-jumping rhetoric that we so often hear from leaders in our own country is, where do they go in their own country? It is also not true to say that numbers of people in Australia are waiting to reunite with them, because they are not. The ethnicity and religious make up of the group in Australia, in particular those from Afghanistan, are almost the opposite of those wanting to seek asylum. Some of the experiences of these refugees and the reasons they are here are horrendous. To give some examples of why they have left their own countries, some of them have been beaten on their feet. A male cousin, father or son has been abducted or has been shot, sometimes in front of them; one man’s three little children were shot in front of him. Young men have fathers and sons who have disappeared, presumed murdered, and their mothers have found the money to ensure the safety of their last surviving son. If I were in that position, I would certainly want to do something similar. Some men escaped to live in caves without food and water; others were imprisoned in caves with bodies and/or skeletons in an effort to break their will. Some men have had electrodes attached to their ears or scrotum and their arms have been cut with glass. Some are village men who resisted conscription or orders to kill their own people. Some are educated men whose crimes have been to protest or speak against injustice. All of them have had to escape for their lives. These are the sorts of experiences of these people who are being released onto the streets with nothing. They are transported by bus from the two detention centres to Perth and all they have to survive on is the special benefit. Basically, the carer group is providing clothes and general access to whatever it can. Some members of the group are teachers. Many of these people do not speak English as their first language, so they feel totally isolated. The children who are part of this refugee group are not allowed to go to school, because that is the law in Australia. What hope do children like that have growing up in a country where they were perhaps expecting some sympathy? There has been a lot of hype talked about these refugees. I guess it is difficult for everyone that the only way that refugees like these feel they can come to this country is by boat. They have taken great risks to do that. Statistics show that there has been what seems like a large number of refugees who have come to Australia, because significant numbers of boats have come here. Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs fact sheets show that the number of refugees who came on those boats was 200 in 1998, 3 728 in 1999 and 187 to March 2000. That is roughly about 3 622 people in detention centres, including 805 at Port Hedland and 1 105 at Curtin. However, when we compare those figures with the number of people who overstay and breach visa conditions in this country, it is a massive contradiction. For example, in June 1997, 46 232 people overstayed their visas Australia-wide. In December 1998, that figure went up to

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50 603 and in June 1999 to 53 143. That compares with 4 000 people from countries like Iraq and Afghanistan who have come here as refugees, while, in the main, the people that have overstayed their visas in this country are from Britain and America. The hue and cry of how dare these people come here illegally is questionable when we compare people who are genuinely fearful for their lives with those who have overstayed a visa, possibly with intent, who are of European descent. All this begs the question: What is so wrong about fighting for your life? I have thought long and hard about whether I should raise an issue like this here. People do not seem to think that refugees should be spared any thought. I hold a different point of view and, as a member of Amnesty International, I feel that it is very important that those issues be made public. Australia is a lucky country and it has much to offer, and if it cannot provide a decent quality of life for 4 000 people, compared with the life that they have escaped, it is a very poor old state of affairs that this country has come down to. One of the things that prompted me to raise this issue was an address a couple of weeks ago by Nelson Mandela during the opening of the What Makes A Champion conference in Sydney, and also his work in Australia promoting reconciliation. I have always been a fan of Mandela and his commitment to fighting for justice and I very much admire the way that he has handled himself. Something he said in that speech made me realise that it was important to raise issues like this one today. He said that the fight against poverty will be the greatest challenge of the new century. This applies to the people who have come here to escape the tyranny of their own countries. Mandela always refers to the collective as the way to effect societal change - we only have to look at his commitment to ridding South Africa of apartheid - but talks about changing society were not the hardest thing; changing ourselves and our own belief system was the really hard thing. The Australian psyche towards refugees that are being released onto the streets of Perth, with virtually nothing other than what they stand in, is wrong. Australians ought to look at themselves and say that they owe these people a decent life. Australians all have plenty and, as I said, the way that those people are being treated is not right in this day and age. I would hope that Australians would rethink their attitude and would display the same respect and dignity to those refugees as they display to Australian citizens. I support the motion. Debate adjourned, on motion by Hon B.K. Donaldson.

FOREST PRODUCTS BILL 1999 Third Reading Bill read a third time, on motion by Hon N.F. Moore (Leader of the House), and returned to the Assembly with amendments. ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL 2000 Second Reading Resumed from 13 September. HON J. A. SCOTT (South Metropolitan) [2.58 pm]: The Greens (WA) support many of the changes to the Electoral Amendment Act, particularly the range of administrative changes, which are very sensible and will bring this Act into this century. Most of these changes smooth the bureaucratic and administrative processes and take up modern methods of communication, rather than sticking with cumbersome, difficult systems. An example of administrative simplicity is the registration of all candidates at one point and with one check. It is something that all people could agree with as they would have no reason to suspect that the change would cause misfortune to anyone. However, there are some problems in trying to effect administrative simplicity through such legislation if it is done at the expense of the democratic status of our electoral system. That, to some degree, has occurred in this Bill, particularly with those areas dealing with the registration of parties and the requirement that a party have, in this case, 500 members. I understand this was taken directly from Queensland legislation or from members in the State Parliament who are members of that party that produced that legislation. A number of serious political parties in the community have wide-ranging policy platforms, which are neither single- issue parties or the kind of “front” parties set up by the major parties to channel votes back to them at elections. It is a shame to be moving to try to prevent genuine parties from being registered and from being able to have their names on the ballot paper. It is undemocratic to make candidates for those parties stand, in effect, as Independents, since their party names cannot be on either the register of political parties or on the ballot paper. I understand the reasons put forward by various speakers as to why they consider this measure reasonable. There certainly is a proliferation of parties, but we supposedly live in a democracy, and by trying to restrict parties we suspect of being front groups, we can impinge on parties that have a fair and reasonable approach to politics and are serious about what they are trying to do. It also makes it much more difficult to form new parties. I understand why the Labor Party and the Liberal-National coalition like to keep the power to themselves. Hon J.A. Cowdell: On the contrary - we always like to see Hon Jim Scott in the House. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Given the numbers present in the Chamber, yes.

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Hon J.A. Cowdell: The Government may not like to see you in the House, but that is not an opinion held by the Labor Party. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: You can always see him on television standing up for the rights of communists. Hon J.A. SCOTT: We can always see Hon Derrick Tomlinson taking the path of - Hon Derrick Tomlinson: Righteousness? Hon J.A. SCOTT: Yes, extreme righteousness in some cases. But he is entitled to do that under the current system, whether or not his party has 500 members. I will examine the membership numbers issue, as it is dealt with in this legislation. For a number of years I have taken part in the orientation days that are held at our universities. At Murdoch University the Liberal Party was offering a champagne breakfast and membership, or a nightclub pass and membership, for $5. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: Membership to what? Hon J.A. SCOTT: To the Liberal Party. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: They charged me $10! Hon J.A. SCOTT: A number of inducements were offered to get names on paper. Hon J.A. Cowdell: One inducement obviously was not a parliamentary lunch with Hon Derrick Tomlinson! Hon J.A. SCOTT: Such inducements make a mockery of what this Bill proposes. Everyone knows young people like to have a good time and that they sign up for the good time rather than the party policy in many instances. The extent of their interest is getting the free champagne or other inducements. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: There is no such thing as free champagne! Hon J.A. SCOTT: That is quite right. The clause dealing with party membership numbers does nothing to enhance democracy in this State. Another area where I see an administrative process overtaking the democratic process in this Bill is that part which prevents a party with more than six words in its name from being registered. This is purely administrative and I cannot understand why such a clause is in the Bill. I certainly will not be agreeing to it. I have heard the argument that the membership numbers provision in this Bill will help prevent the proliferation of single-issue parties. In fact, there is a party in Western Australia called Liberals for Forests, which can quite easily make the 500 membership requirement, yet it is still a single-issue party. Hon B.K. Donaldson: There are no Liberals in the Liberals for Forests. Hon N.F. Moore: There never were. Hon J.A. SCOTT: I cannot really say who is in the party, but the existence of that party shows that single-issue parties cannot be stopped simply by insisting on a minimum of 500 members. If we had a No Tax Party - Hon Derrick Tomlinson: You mean the No GST Party? Hon J.A. SCOTT: Yes. Such a party would quite easily attract 500 members, especially if it were cheap to join. With no tax, it would become even cheaper. Hon N.F. Moore: You want to change the minimum membership to 250 and make the membership fees higher? Hon J.A. SCOTT: I do not want to make joining a political party expensive at all. Five hundred is an arbitrary figure, taken from the legislation in Queensland, where the population is double that of Western Australia. The figure in New South Wales is 750 and that State has a population three times that of Western Australia. South Australia has a requirement of 120, I believe, with a similar population to Western Australia. Tasmania has a voting population of 330 000 and a party membership requirement of about 80. I cannot recall the precise figure for Tasmania, but it is very small and would be equivalent to the South Australian figure on a pro rata basis. The Greens (WA) would like to see the legitimacy of a political party based on careful analyses within a more democratic process rather than on whether it has a certain number of members in its party. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: What do you have in mind? Hon J.A. SCOTT: Whether a party has a range of policies would be a good basis for being registered. I hope that would not cause the Labor Party any difficulties. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: Not at all. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Clearly there are legitimate ways of describing a political party. Everyone here knows the purpose of such parties. If a party were found to have been established to channel votes into another party it should not be registered. We need a more democratic process for registering political parties.

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The Greens (WA) has members in this Parliament and, if necessary, can scrape up the 500 members required. However, many smaller parties in the community find it difficult to get the numbers. Hon N.F. Moore: I am sure your members would love to know they could be scraped up. Hon J.A. SCOTT: That was probably an unfortunate expression, but unlike members opposite I do not always use the perfect words to describe a picture. Hon B.K. Donaldson: I thought you described it very well. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: It should be scraped down from the trees! The PRESIDENT: Order! Hon J.A. SCOTT: On the one hand the Act condones dodgy practices, such as inducements to get names on a piece of paper. On the other hand it makes no attempt to examine whether a political party in Western Australia should be registered based on its ethics or policies. It would be preferable to have a properly analysed system to examine the legitimacy of parties. I am disappointed at the lack of scrutiny of political donations provided for in the legislation. There is wide scope for large donations to be channelled through trusts. Section 175R of the Electoral Act provides that the beneficiary of the trustee must be identified. Large amounts of money can be fed through unincorporated associations into political parties and only a couple of people need to be identified. Not enough is being done to monitor large amounts of money paid to political parties. That can only allow the potential for corruption in our political system. We should always be trying to avoid situations that can lead to corruption. I do not want to see in this House Governments that are bought. I want to see Governments with good policies. Although a registered political party can be so registered if it has a member of state Parliament in the party, the Greens (WA) believe that if a party has members in the House of Representatives that should also provide a legitimate reason for registering a political party. I understand the Democrats will move an amendment. The Greens (WA) support the bulk of this Bill and although I do not think a party should be registered based on how many members it has, it will move an amendment to reduce the number required for a party to be registered. The number should be pro rata the population in each State. The Greens (WA) support the Bill. HON N.F. MOORE (Mining and Pastoral - Leader of the House) [3.16 pm]: I thank members opposite who contributed to this debate. As was explained, it is an omnibus Bill containing a number of changes to tidy up the Electoral Act. As indicated in the second reading speech and acknowledged by members who spoke, the Electoral Commission proposed the changes. In a sense, therefore, these are a non-political series of amendments. I was pleased to hear that most members have indicated their support for the Bill. Rather than argue about the various clauses I will wait until we go into Committee to debate the issues. However, in passing, I was interested to hear some of Hon John Cowdell’s comments last night that were not strictly related to the Bill, although they related to electoral issues. I was pleased to hear that the Labor Party is maintaining its policy position on one vote, one value with a variation, I think, of 15 per cent. Hon J.A. Cowdell: That is right. Hon N.F. MOORE: That will come down in due course. Hon Helen Hodgson interjected. Hon N.F. MOORE: Do the Democrats want a variation of 10 per cent? Hon Helen Hodgson: I thought I heard 10 per cent mentioned in the debate. Hon J.A. Cowdell: Ten per cent is the Australian Labor Party’s policy which is the Commission on Government’s recommendation. Hon N.F. MOORE: Is the ALP’s policy for 10 per cent? Hon J.A. COWDELL: We prefer 10 per cent, but you can make us an offer. Hon N.F. MOORE: It is important that the people who will be voting in the next election know the Labor Party’s policies. That is why we had a long debate on industrial relations. Hon J.A. Cowdell: It has been the same policy for 90 years. Hon N.F. MOORE: The Labor Party should maintain consistency. I was confused in the light of its 90-year-old policy when the last redistribution was carried out and the Electoral Commissioners took one seat out of the north west because they thought the population was diminishing. The Labor Party went to great lengths to have it restored on the basis that people in remote areas needed additional support.

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Hon J.A. Cowdell: It was going to another area that was already over-represented, rather than the metropolitan area that was under-represented. Hon N.F. MOORE: That is a good explanation for the occasion. The bottom line is that the Labor Party worked out that it might lose a seat. It was fascinating to sit back and watch as the Labor Party tried to argue that it should put the seat back in the Kimberley. I raise the matter to demonstrate to the House that sometimes it is easy for people like me to be confused by the ALP’s position on this matter. Hon J.A. Cowdell: We will try to clear up the confusion. Hon N.F. MOORE: I am totally unconfused now. The Labor Party’s policy is one vote, one value with a 10 per cent variation; but it would accept 15 per cent if it were offered. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: The closer it gets to 10 per cent the happier we will be. Hon N.F. MOORE: That is fine. Hon John Cowdell criticised the Government for not going down that path. I am happy to acknowledge that there has been no pressure on the Government to change the existing electoral system. People have not marched on Parliament House or on electorate offices saying we need to change to one vote, one value. Quite the contrary, the rural communities are saying that they want to hang on to what they have got because it compensates them for some of the disadvantages they suffer. The PRESIDENT: Order! The Leader of the House indicated that his comment on the issue raised by Hon John Cowdell would be a passing comment, given that yesterday I had said to Hon John Cowdell that what he had been talking about was not in the Bill. Hon E.R.J. Dermer: What they need are fewer members working harder. Hon N.F. MOORE: It is important that people of the regional areas of Western Australia know that Hon Ed Dermer thinks they should have fewer members who work harder. I am happy to tell them what Hon Ed Dermer thinks. No doubt they will be told. Hon John Cowdell also mentioned in passing the qualifications of persons witnessing enrolments. He commented on a proposal at the federal level. He obliquely related that to this Bill, and hoped that we would not do that in Western Australia , which we are not. He then referred to a period in history when there was a qualification in our law about who witnessed enrolments. I was around when that happened. During the days when Sir Charles Court was Premier, the Government was concerned at some of the activities going on in the north of Western Australia with enrolments on the electoral roll, and other activities of people involved in elections. Hon J.A. Cowdell: We all heard the comments of Mr Ridge about Aboriginal electors in the court of disputed returns. . Hon N.F. MOORE: I do not recall exactly what Mr Ridge said. I recall a range of things that took place during that time. I recall the decision by the then Government to appoint Judge Kay to review the Electoral Act on a number of issues. I recall his report which said there should be some control over who signs people up. He recommended that people like justices of the peace should do it. Interestingly, when the Burke Government came into office it made every member of Parliament a JP. That fixed up the problems Mr Burke had with the Electoral Act just like that. That is how Mr Burke worked. Hon J.A. Cowdell: The Leader of the House does not think MPs would act correctly as JPs! Hon N.F. MOORE: The law at the time said that JPs could accept electoral enrolments, so Mr Burke made all MPs JPs to fix the problem. We have a string of MPs who are JPs for no other reason than Mr Burke’s decision to overcome what he thought was a disadvantage in the Electoral Act. I remind the member that was as a result of a judicial inquiry, and members opposite call for them daily. However, because the Labor Party does not like the results of judicial inquiries, its leader last night called the judge corrupt and the findings of his report corrupt. Hon J.A. Cowdell: If this was so important, you have had four years to turn it back when you had a majority of both Houses. You did not, so don’t complain now. Hon N.F. MOORE: I am not complaining. I am telling members why it happened at the time. I do not think it is necessary to go back to those times, as Hon John Cowdell suggests we might. We have no intention of doing that. That recommendation came from a judge to try to eliminate some of the excesses taking place in some parts of Western Australia at a time when members of the Labor Party were taking advantage of Aboriginal voters in the north and the eastern goldfields. I thought I would mention that in passing, Mr President. I will quickly respond to Hon Jim Scott who has an amendment on the Notice Paper to reduce the number of members of a political party from 500 to 250. Choosing a figure is not always easy, and the Electoral Commissioner has recommended 500. That is generally accepted as being a fair and reasonable figure for the number of members to make up a political party. I do not know how many members the Greens (WA) have. I do not know how many members any party has. I just hope our party has 500, so that we will be all right. Hon J.A. Cowdell: You will need that number when there are no parliamentary representatives.

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Hon N.F. MOORE: One of the interesting things about that comment is that the Liberal Party has 14 members in this House. The Labor Party started off with 12 and now it has 10. At least our number stayed the same. I do not know how many more members opposite are thinking about jumping ship, but we will find out. The Liberal Party has 14 of 34 members. This House has several different groupings of which the Liberal Party has far and away the most. Those sort of remarks by Hon J.A. Cowdell are not borne out in reality. I have been here when the Labor Party had nine members, and it was in those days that they were most effective. Hon W.N. Stretch: They had some quality too. Hon N.F. MOORE: Quality and not quantity counted at that time. We will have a debate in the committee stage about the amendment being moved by Hon Jim Scott. I trust the House will maintain 500 so that we can at least ensure that political parties have some substance, rather than small groups which might seek to be a political party for a single purpose, register and not really be a political party in the true sense of the term. I thank members for their support. Question put and passed. Bill read a second time. Committee The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Hon Derrick Tomlinson) in the Chair; Hon N.F. Moore (Leader of the House) in charge of the Bill. Clause 1: Short title - Hon HELEN HODGSON: Unfortunately I was detained outside the Chamber on parliamentary business during the afternoon, so I have two matters I did not raise in the second reading debate which relate more precisely to the contents of clauses. I take this opportunity to address some of the issues in the clauses of the Bill. Generally, the Australian Democrats find the registration provisions to be a vast improvement to the current system, which is no registration system. I am pleased to see that to some extent they mirror the federal legislation and in other areas go beyond it. I was interested to hear Hon Jim Scott refer to having more than six words in a party’s name, because that provision is lifted directly from the federal registration system. For that reason, I do not have a problem with it. One matter addressed in the Western Australian legislation but not in the federal legislation is the use of the words “royal” or “independent” in a political party’s name. As I read the federal legislation, “independent” can be used in some circumstances; so I believe that this Bill is an improvement. I will deal with one issue that I would normally have dealt with during the second reading stage. I have drawn it to the attention of the minister’s advisers and it appears on the Supplementary Notice Paper. I refer to the requirements to be registered as a parliamentary party. The Bill refers specifically to being a member of the Legislative Assembly or the Legislative Council. Obviously, that relates to the Western Australian Parliament. I see serious anomalies occurring when a member of the Federal Parliament is elected under the auspices of a particular party. If that party cannot be registered at the state level, that could create problems when state and federal election campaigns are being run concurrently and the same people are standing in both jurisdictions. Many complex issues could arise. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (Hon Derrick Tomlinson): I draw to the member’s attention that, while I recognise her explanation that she was detained on parliamentary business elsewhere and hence could not complete her remarks in the second reading stage, the convention of the second reading stage is that we discuss the principle of the Bill. The committee stage allows members to use the debate on the short title to discuss the clauses of the Bill. It might be more appropriate for the member to deal with the individual clauses when we get to them. Hon HELEN HODGSON: I am giving the minister advance notice that when we get to that clause I will discuss it. I am giving him the opportunity to consider an issue that may arise later in the debate rather than springing it on him. Hon N.F. Moore: That is very considerate. Hon HELEN HODGSON: I would normally have referred to it during the second reading stage. However, because I was unable to do so, I am raising it now so that he has some time to think about the issue. The proposed registration system is an improvement on the current situation and it will work reasonably well. I will not detain the Committee discussing the administrative clauses one by one. The Australian Democrats support the clauses that streamline the administration, bring it up to date with current communication practices and enable bulk lodging of registrations. Those changes are an improvement on the current practice and some of them will be dealt with in more detail as they arise during this debate. I will deal with one specific issue relating to registration. Again, I point out that the Australian Democrats support these changes and will not delay debate by commenting later on the way in which constitutions of political parties are subject to public disclosure. That is very sound practice because it gives people the opportunity to see how a party is intended to be governed. We have witnessed some notorious instances recently in which people were unaware of the structure of a party and how it operated until something went wrong and it all hit the media.

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Having amplified my comments and drawn the minister’s attention to areas that I will address further and issues that will need no further debate, I will allow the debate to progress. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We thank the member for that. It would have progressed anyway. Clause put and passed. Clauses 2 to 29 put and passed. Clause 30: Section 25 replaced - Hon N.F. MOORE: I move - Page 23, after line 23 - To insert the following new subclause - (5) The regulations may provide that if by virtue of section 51B information relating to a person is not shown on a roll, that person’s name may be omitted when the Electoral Commissioner makes rolls or information on rolls available under this section. This amendment amends section 25 by providing that regulations may allow that persons who have their addresses and details suppressed under section 1B may also have their names suppressed on rolls available for inspection or sale. People can access the roll either by inspecting it at the Electoral Commissioner’s office or by purchasing it. This proposal provides that a person may have his name removed from that roll when it is made available for those purposes. The Electoral Commissioner believes that this will provide a higher level of security for people who meet the requirements of section 51B; that is, those who would normally have their addresses suppressed. Given the way in which these rolls can be used - for example, in local government elections - in some areas it may be possible for someone to be traced because his name is included. The Electoral Commissioner believes that this provision is appropriate to give a higher level of security to individuals whose personal details are not generally on the roll but who, under certain circumstances, have their names suppressed altogether. The rolls provided in polling booths on polling day or to members and political parties will include those names. This relates only to those rolls that are made available for inspection at the Electoral Commissioner’s office or those offered for sale. It makes sense that we try to provide as much security as possible for those people. Hon J.A. COWDELL: The Labor Party will not oppose this amendment on the basis of the assurances that have been given; that is, that this subclause is clearly applicable to section 25 but not to section 25A. Therefore, sets of rolls will be available for crosschecking with the central roll. Presumably the roll that is made available for purchase or inspection at the Electoral Commission will have a number but no designation. I understand that at the moment every elector has a number beside his name and address. I assume that the roll currently has a number and a name but no address for a silent elector. Will there be a number and no name and no address now? I notice from the Bill that silent electors will now be placed on the general postal vote roll. Does that mean they will be sent a postal vote automatically and will not, in the normal course of events, be expected to front up at a polling booth on polling day? Hon N.F. MOORE: The answer to the first question is that the number will still appear on the electoral roll. I do not think we could change that, because everybody else’s number would then also need to change. There will be a number, and then a blank. Hon J.A. Cowdell: You will need to know the quantum total. Hon N.F. MOORE: Yes. The answer to the second question is that these people will need to apply for a postal vote - Hon J.A. Cowdell: They will not be on the general postal vote list? Hon N.F. MOORE: They will need to apply to become postal voters. Hon J.A. Cowdell: It is only an entitlement to apply for a general postal vote? Hon N.F. MOORE: Yes. Hon HELEN HODGSON: What arrangements will be made for people in remote areas to have access to an electoral roll, because formerly they could go directly to the electoral office in their district? It is not prescribed in the Bill, and I am happy for it not to be prescribed, but I want to know what arrangements will be made. Hon N.F. MOORE: There are no electoral offices in regional Western Australia. The only electoral office is in Hay Street, Perth. Rolls are made available to libraries in a number of communities in Western Australia, and people can access them there. Hon Helen Hodgson: Will that continue? Hon N.F. MOORE: Yes. That is a decision of the Electoral Commissioner, and is a sensible one. Amendment put and passed. Clause, as amended, put and passed.

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Clauses 31 to 33 put and passed. Clause 34: Section 81A inserted - Hon N.F. MOORE: I move - Page 25, line 26 - To delete “send to” and insert the word “give”. Page 25, line 28 - To delete “facsimile” and insert the word “copy”. Page 26, after line 2 - To insert the following subclause - (6) The reference in subsection (5)(b)(ii) to a copy of the nomination paper includes a reference to a copy generated by way of transmission by facsimile or other electronic means under section 210(2). These amendments are designed to make it clear that it is required that the returning officer be given a true copy of the nomination paper. The paper may be given by hand, courier, mail or electronic means, and the copy may be a photocopy or a copy generated by facsimile or other electronic means. This amendment is the result of a request by the opposition spokesperson in the other place to clarify this matter. I am advised that the returning officer may be in the same building, so to require that the returning officer be sent a facsimile of the nomination paper does not make a lot of sense. Amendments put and passed. Clause, as amended, put and passed. [Continued on page 1267.] Sitting suspended from 3.45 to 4.00 pm

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

CORPORATE RECONSTRUCTIONS EXEMPTION

190. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Attorney General representing the Treasurer: I refer to the table titled "Summary of Major Tax and Royalty Expenditures" on page 206 of Budget Paper No 3, and ask: Will the Attorney General table the current estimate of the corporate reconstructions exemption for - (a) 2000-01; (b) 2001-02; (c) 2002-03; and (d) 2003-04? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. Forward estimates of the cost of the stamp duty exemption scheme for corporate reconstructions are not available, as it is not possible to predict the number and size of transactions that may qualify for relief.

MAIN ROADS TERM NETWORK CONTRACTS, KIMBERLEY AND GASCOYNE

191. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Minister for Transport: I refer to the minister’s answer yesterday on the Main Roads term network contracts for the Kimberley and Gascoyne and ask - (1) Will the minister confirm that negotiations with BGC Contracting Pty Ltd are proceeding on the basis of a Main Roads' initiated and scheduled on-road works regime? (2) Will the minister confirm that all other six term network contracts are fully outcome-based or fixed-price contracts? (3) Will the minister explain why BGC is being dealt with on a different basis from any other company with a term network contract? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: (1) Yes.

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(2) The five term network contracts that have been awarded are outcome-based contracts. TNC 4 - Goldfields- Esperance - has a small component of Main Roads’ initiated works. Of the three contracts still to be awarded, which are all in negotiation stage, one is an outcome-based format. (3) The formats of TNC 1 and TNC 2 are different from the other six TNCs because of the view that the isolation and the potential for major weather effects may have led to a premium being placed under the outcome-based format. A decision was made before issuing the request for proposal documents in late 1999 to seek tenders based on both the outcome-based and the mixed model. Examination of the tenders received revealed that it would be more economical for the mixed-contract format to be adopted and negotiations with the preferred proponent - BGC Contracting Pty Ltd - have proceeded on that basis. BGC Contracting Pty Ltd was one of a number of tenderers for TNC 1 and TNC 2 and all tenderers were dealt with on the same basis. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, ASSET SALES

192. Hon KIM CHANCE to the parliamentary secretary representing the Minister for Education: (1) Will the parliamentary secretary table the expected level of asset sales by the Education Department for - (a) 2001-02; (b) 2002-03; and (c) 2003-04? (2) Will the parliamentary secretary table what assets or land has been earmarked to be sold during this period? Hon BARRY HOUSE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) (a) 2001-02 $36 350 000 (b) 2002-03 $11 850 000 (c) 2003-04` Nil (2) 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 Albany Primary School $2 300 000 Swanbourne Primary School $3 150 000 Swanbourne Senior High School $15 000 000 Hollywood Senior High School $9 900 000 Unidentified asset sales factored in by Treasury $6 000 000 $11 850 000 Estimated Total Assets Sales $36 350 000 $11 850 000 Nil

OMEX SITE, HEALTH DEPARTMENT ADVICE

193. Hon J.A. SCOTT to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Health: (1) On or around 9 May 2000 did the Health Department advise - (a) the Bellevue Primary School; (b) residents living near the Omex site; and (c) medical practitioners in the Bellevue area that emissions from the Omex site were not a risk to public health? (2) Was that advice correct? (3) How does the minister reconcile that advice with information that there were 153 exceedences of volatile organic compounds, 79 exceedences of sulfur dioxide and 28 complaints made by the community prior to 9 May? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Yes. A letter was sent to the medical practitioners in the Bellevue area on 8 May 2000 and to the Bellevue Primary School on 12 May 2000. (2) Yes, based on information available to the Health Department.

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(3) The Health Department had not been advised of any exceedences of the action level for either sulfur dioxide or volatile organic compounds prior to 13 May 2000. The action levels were set as an operation objective and not necessarily as indicative of levels that would cause adverse health effects. OLD SWAN BREWERY SITE, PERIMETER FENCE

194. Hon HELEN HODGSON to the minister representing the Minister for Works: (1) Is the minister aware that a perimeter fence surrounding the old Swan Brewery site was recently extended to include a number of car park bays in what is locally known as the fishermen's car park? (2) Does this car park comprise a part of the area of land that is subject to the lease agreement between the Government and Bluegate Nominees Pty Ltd? (3) If not, why has the company been permitted to fence off an area that is public land? (4) Does the agreement allow Bluegate Nominees to lease out the car park facilities constructed directly opposite the old Swan Brewery on Mounts Bay Road? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Yes. (2) No. (3) Multiplex Constructions Pty Ltd, the entity undertaking the construction works for Bluegate Nominees, has obtained a hoarding licence from the City of Perth, which is the authority that has control over the car park known locally as the fishermen's car park. (4) The question is unclear as to which car park facilities are referred to. If the question relates to the fishermen's car park, the answer is no; the agreement does not cover the fishermen's car park. ROAD SAFETY INITIATIVES

195. Hon RAY HALLIGAN to the Minister for Transport: Will the minister inform the House of any recent government initiatives to improve road safety in Western Australia? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: In the past 12 months the Government has initiated a number of road safety initiatives in Western Australia. These include - banning the use of hand-held mobile phones while driving; the introduction of a new graduated driver training and licensing system together with owner onus and other road safety related issues - the Road Traffic Amendment Bill 1999 is currently before Parliament; an enhanced road safety community education program; regional road safety strategies and initiatives; the introduction of a regulation to ban travel in the open load space of vehicles; the development of road safety resources for tourists; the establishment of an Aboriginal road users task force, plus funding for several road safety initiatives targeting Aboriginal people. I will focus on a most recent initiative announced by the Premier on Sunday, 27 August 2000. This is the Government's new road safety strategy 2000-2005, which is an outstanding initiative that aims to dramatically reduce the road toll in Western Australia by 2005. This strategy includes initiatives such as - improving the safety of existing roads through a new state black spots program; planning a safer road safety system; reducing urban travel speeds; enhancing the speed enforcement program; improving enforcement effectiveness; improving coordination, enforcement and publicity through community education campaigns; improving vehicle occupant protection;

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promoting safer modes of travel; prioritising legislation; and monitoring strategy effectiveness. In 1999 we lost 218 Western Australians on our roads. We consider that to be totally unacceptable. The strategy is indicative of the Government’s earnest intention to significantly reduce the road toll in Western Australia. The strategy has involved the Government making a number of difficult decisions and significant funding commitments. This strategy sets a very clear and unequivocal path and is a sign of the Government’s desire and commitment to road safety in Western Australia. YVONNE POOLE, UNFAIR DISMISSAL CASE

196. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Attorney General: I refer to the unfair dismissal case lodged in the Industrial Magistrate’s Court on 2 March 2000 by Yvonne Poole and listed for hearing on 9 and 10 August. (1) Why was this two-day trial, set down two months earlier, not listed in the Industrial Magistrate’s Court list in The West Australian on 9 August? (2) Why was the matter not included on the daily court lists within the confines of the court building? (3) Does the Attorney General have any reasonable explanation for these omissions? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. The Industrial Magistrate’s Court does not come within the Attorney General’s portfolio. HOME AND COMMUNITY CARE, F CLASS DRIVERS LICENCE REQUIREMENT

197. Hon CHERYL DAVENPORT to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Health: I refer to the minister’s answer to question without notice No 38 on 16 August 2000, which reads - Currently, volunteer drivers in the HACC are subject to the requirements of the Road Traffic Act 1974 that require a driver to hold an F class licence while driving an omnibus or using a vehicle to carry passengers as separate fares. (1) Is the minister aware that this advice contradicts an answer provided by the Minister for Transport which states that the requirement for an F class drivers licence under the Road Traffic Act pertains to an omnibus vehicle; an omnibus is defined as a “vehicle equipped to carry more than eight adult passengers and used to carry passengers for separate fares”? (2) Will the minister explain whether volunteer drivers who have less than eight fee-paying passengers in the vehicle are required to hold an F class licence, given that their vehicle is not classified as an omnibus? (3) If yes, on what grounds? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Formal advice received from the Department of Transport by the Health Department of Western Australia on 12 September 2000 confirms the advice given by the Minister for Transport recently that states - The requirement for an ‘F’ class drivers licence under the Road Traffic Act pertains to an omnibus vehicle; an omnibus is defined as ‘a vehicle equipped to carry more than eight adult passengers and used to carry passengers for separate fares’. (2) The Department of Transport has advised that any driver of a vehicle that is not defined as an omnibus will not be required to hold an F class licence. (3) Not applicable. SIR SAMUEL MINES NL

198. Hon GIZ WATSON to the minister representing the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs: Sir Samuel Mines NL has advised Aboriginal interests in the goldfields that it has applied under section 18 of the Aboriginal Heritage Act for approval to discharge ground water from the mine dewatering operations at the Cosmos nickel mine into Lake Miranda, situated to the north of Leinster. (1) Has that application under section 18 of the Aboriginal Heritage Act been approved?

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(2) If so, when was it approved? (3) Has the minister’s decision been consistent with advice received about the importance of Lake Miranda? (4) Were all the relevant claimant groups involved in the process prior to approval being given? (5) Have all the relevant claimant groups supported approval being given? (6) If not, why not? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Yes. (2) The letter of consent signed by the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs was forwarded to the company on 21 August 2000. (3) In accordance with section 18(3) of the Aboriginal Heritage Act, and following consideration of the recommendations of the Aboriginal Cultural Material Committee, and in the interests of the general community, the minister took the importance of Lake Miranda into account. (4) Yes. (5) No. (6) The minister is unable to comment on behalf of the claimant groups. TAXI INDUSTRY REVIEW

199. Hon NORM KELLY to the Minister for Transport: (1) What recommendations resulted from the national competition policy review of the taxi industry in relation to the Taxi Industry Board? (2) Has the Taxi Industry Board been abolished? (3) If so, what is the ongoing relevance of sections 8 to 14 in the current Taxi Act? (4) Has the industry completed the establishment of its own representative body? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) One of the significant outcomes of the national competition policy review of the taxi industry that was conducted last year was to have clearly defined roles for government and industry. As a result, the role of government will now be as a policy leader. It will set standards for the taxi industry to meet the needs of its customers. The national competition policy review also established that the industry was confused about whether the Taxi Industry Board was an industry body or a government body. Within the taxi industry, the Taxi Industry Board was generally regarded as a government body, and within government it was seen as an industry body. The existence of the Taxi Industry Board is prescribed within the Taxi Act. However, most industries have their own representative body and therefore a similar approach was agreed to for the taxi industry. The major taxi industry stakeholders indicated that they did not support the continuation of the Taxi Industry Board. (2) The terms of Taxi Industry Board members’ appointments expired on 30 June 2000. Since that time, the Taxi Industry Board has ceased active participation in the industry. (3) I am seeking advice on the matter. However, it is my intention to amend the Taxi Act in due course to remove reference to the Taxi Industry Board. (4) Key groups within the taxi industry have supported the Taxi Council of Western Australia as the peak industry representative body for the taxi industry. The council has been operating in this role since 1 July 2000. POLICE DEPARTMENT, ASSET SALES

200. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: (1) Will the Attorney General table a list of the expected level of asset sales by the Police Department for - (a) 2001-02; (b) 2002-03; and (c) 2003-04?

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(2) Will the Attorney General table a list of what assets or land have been earmarked for sale during this period? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Treasury has acknowledged that the sale proceeds of these properties will be returned to the Western Australia Police Service - (a) Maylands Police Academy - $25m; and police headquarters - sale proceeds unknown. (b)-(c) Not applicable. (2) See (1). It is expected the traffic branch will be disposed of during 2000-01 with sale proceeds of $6m. Any other sales will be subject to disposal through the Department of Land Administration. YVONNE POOLE, UNFAIR DISMISSAL CASE

201. Hon G.T. GIFFARD to the Attorney General: I refer to the unfair dismissal case heard in the Industrial Magistrate’s Court on 9 and 10 August lodged by Yvonne Poole. (1) Why was the Crown Solicitor’s Office engaged in this case? (2) Is it standard practice for the Crown Solicitor to be engaged in such cases? (3) What are the legal costs of the defence provided to the Speaker and the member for Southern River in this case? (4) What was the total cost to taxpayers of defending this case? Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1) To represent the Director General of the Ministry of Premier and Cabinet and the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. (2) Yes. (3) The member for Southern River was not a defendant. The total legal costs of the Speaker and the director general were $12 998 estimated on an in-house basis. (4) The Crown Solicitor’s Office incurred the costs of $12 998. SCARBOROUGH SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL SITE

202. Hon E.R.J. DERMER to the parliamentary secretary representing the Minister for Education: (1) Will the Minister for Education confirm that he advised Karrinyup residents that, until the issue of Scarborough Senior High School site zoning was resolved, the basketball courts, tennis courts and playing fields on Newborough Street would be available for public use, and the balance of the site would be fenced? (2) If this is entailed in the minister’s management plan for the site, which part of the site will be used for the Christmas period Karrinyup Shopping Centre staff parking, which the Education Department has offered to the shopping centre? Hon BARRY HOUSE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Should the omnibus Bill, of which the Scarborough Senior High School site is one item, be delayed by Parliament the site will be fenced to provide pedestrian access across the site and community use of playing fields, tennis courts and basketball courts in Newborough Street. (2) Approval for use of the site as a staff parking area was provided on the assumption that the site would still be owned by the department. Karrinyup Shopping Centre Management has now been advised of the possibility that fencing may be required, and that it may need to find an alternative parking area. SWAN FOREST REGION, LOGGING

203. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Forest Products: (1) Will the minister please list all the coupes in the Swan forest region where logging has been conducted since 1 January 1998? (2) Will the minister please list all the state forest blocks in the Swan forest region where bauxite mining has been conducted since 1 January 1998?

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(3) In which state forest blocks in the Swan forest region will bauxite mining be conducted during 2000, 2001 and 2002? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. I ask that the question be put on notice. WATER CORPORATION, COLLIE EMPLOYEES

204. Hon J.A. COWDELL to the minister representing the Minister for Water Resources: (1) How many people are currently employed by the Water Corporation services in Collie? (2) How many people did the Water Corporation employ in Collie in the years 1995 to 1999? (3) On average how many calls do Water Corporation services in Collie receive each month, and what is the response time for those calls? (4) What plans, if any, exist to increase the number of employees at Collie Water Corporation services? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Ten. (2) Eleven. (3) It receives 2.5 faults-complaints per month. Response times are in accordance with Water Corporation’s customer charter and vary from two hours to two days. (4) There are no plans to increase the number of employees at Collie. KEYSTART, ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN

205. Hon KEN TRAVERS to minister representing the Minister for Housing: (1) Can the minister confirm that Keystart is planning to run a major advertising campaign in the near future? (2) What is the estimated budget for this campaign? (3) What is the purpose of this campaign? (4) Who are Keystart’s major competitors in its targeted section of the lending market? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Yes. (2) To be determined. (3) The Minister for Housing realises there has been a downturn in the housing industry. In order to stimulate the market he has requested that Keystart’s board consider an advertising campaign to advertise Keystart to first home buyers. (4) It has no competitors, as Keystart is targeted to those clients who cannot obtain private sector finance. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT, ASSET SALES

206. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Minister for Transport: (1) Will the minister table the expected level of asset sales by the Department of Transport for - (i) 2001-02; (ii) 2002-03; and (iii) 2003-04? (2) Will the minister table what assets or land have been earmarked to be sold during this period? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) (i) $3.7m. (ii) $1.3m. (iii) Nil.

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(2) This question was asked on Tuesday, and we said that we would find the information; however, I ask the Leader of the Opposition to put the question on notice so we can obtain it.

HEALTH, MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES IN THE KIMBERLEY

207. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Health: The recommendations of the coroner’s inquest in Broome yesterday referred to the need for a complete review of mental health services in the Kimberley with a view to providing a greater range of options for the mentally ill. (1) What steps will the Government take to fulfil this recommendation from the coroner? (2) What funding will the Government provide for a review of the mental health services? (3) When will a complete review of the mental health services in the Kimberley take place? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) The Northwest Mental Health Services, in conjunction with the Health Department of Western Australia, has developed a project brief to consider the development and implementation of community support services in the north west. The project brief which will guide the consultation, outcomes and time line for the project has been completed. (2) The Northwest Mental Health Services has allocated non-recurrent funding for the above consultation and development of appropriate models for the delivery of community support services in the north west. The implementation of community support services including disability support, respite options, accommodation support and carer-family support services on an ongoing basis will be funded by the mental health division of the Health Department as part of the statewide program to provide a comprehensive range of non-clinical community-based support services for people with mental illnesses. (3) The community-support service project has a projected time frame of six months, including community consultation, development of culturally appropriate service models and the initial implementation of the services. The staged implementation of services across the north west will continue from this time. I should mention that when I became Minister for Health, mental health services outside the metropolitan area were nonexistent. That has greatly changed in part due to the efforts of Hon Derrick Tomlinson. It is pleasing to see it has been further continued.

HERITAGE COUNCIL, BEAGLE BAY CHURCH TOWER

208. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Heritage: I refer to the minister’s answer to question 169 on 12 September in reference to the Beagle Bay church tower. (1) What specific issue was the Heritage Council seeking to clarify? (2) Will the minister table the relevant correspondence from the Heritage Council; and, if not, why not? (3) Will the minister table at the earliest opportunity the information provided and the council’s report to the minister; and, if not, why not? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for his continued interest in belltowers. (1) The Heritage Council is in discussion with the Roman Catholic Diocese of Broome. The issues of structural safety of the rest of the building, and the most appropriate method of conservation of the belltower have been clarified. The Minister for Heritage has advised that an amount of $25 000 has been allocated under the Heritage Council’s heritage grant program for 2000-01 to assist with the conservation of the Beagle Bay church belltower. (2) At this stage there is no relevant correspondence to table. (3) Yes.

SIR SAMUEL MINES NL-COSMOS NICKEL PROJECT

209. Hon GIZ WATSON to the Attorney General representing the Minister for the Environment: With reference to Sir Samuel Mines NL-Cosmos Nickel Project discharge of ground water from mine dewatering into Lake Miranda.

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(1) Have any environmental impact assessments of the proposal been carried out and scrutinised by the Environmental Protection Authority or the Department of Environmental Protection? (2) Were native title claimants consulted on this proposal? (3) If yes to (2), who was the consultant? (4) What are the names of the claimants who were consulted? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) The Cosmos Nickel project was referred to the Environmental Protection Authority in 1998, which determined that the potential environmental impacts were not significant enough to require formal environmental impact assessment. The authority noted that the proposal could be managed through the pollution control requirements of the Environmental Protection Act 1986. Accordingly, further scrutiny of the proposed discharge operations has been carried out via the works approval and licensing processes administered by the Department of Environmental Protection. To date a licence to discharge into Lake Miranda has not been issued. The proponent has advised the Department of Environmental Protection that it is consulting Aboriginal groups about the proposed discharge. (3)-(4) The department has not been provided with this information.

MCGUIRE, MR

210. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH to the Attorney General: Further to the comments of the Attorney General on 6 September 2000 in the adjournment debate, will he now advise - (1) When did Mr McGuire hear his last case? (2) When did Mr McGuire announce his retirement? (3) How many cases did Mr McGuire have outstanding when he made his announcement? (4) When did the Attorney General become aware that Mr McGuire was not disposing of any of his hearings? (5) How many cases are still outstanding? (6) If it is correct that in the case of the late Mark Allen, Mr McGuire has completed his findings, when will they be released? Hon PETER FOSS replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1) Mr McGuire last heard three very short inquest hearings without oral evidence on 13 December 1999. (2) On 25 November 1999 Mr McGuire wrote to the State Coroner stating - I confirm my advice to you that on medical advice I intend to retire when I have completed outstanding findings which I estimate will take until 31 March 2000 and after I have “used up” my annual and long service leave which I believe to be about 13 weeks.” (3) At the time when Mr McGuire first provided a report as to his findings outstanding. At the time of his letter of 25 November 1999, 19 findings were outstanding and Allen was listed for completion of evidence-submissions on 3 December 1999. (4) On 23 November 1999, the State Coroner wrote to the Attorney General advising that in spite of the fact that for the past two months Mr McGuire had been listed very lightly, the number of his outstanding findings had increased. (5) Four. They are Bland, Brereton, Allen and Crawford. (6) In the case of Mark Allen, tapes dictated by Mr McGuire were typed by 14 June 2000. Mr McGuire declined to collect that draft until on 11 September, at his request, the draft and exhibits were forwarded to him at his home. In his progress reports provided to the Chief Justice, Mr McGuire has written, “Finding typed awaiting correction”. In a report to the Chief Justice dated 4 January 2000, Mr McGuire estimated that the finding in the Mark Allen case would be completed by 7 April 2000.

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ROE HIGHWAY EXTENSION

211. Hon TOM STEPHENS to the Minister for Transport: I refer to the $7.022m already spent on the Roe Highway extension from Welshpool Road to Wimbledon Street and ask - (1) On what was this money spent? (2) How much of the expenditure related to design of the road? (3) Why was a design and construct contract let? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE replied: I thank the member for some notice of this question. (1)-(2) Stages 4 and 5 of Roe Highway from Welshpool Road to Wimbledon Street are now being treated as a single design and construct project. Expenditure since 1992-93 to 30 June this year is $4.8m. This expenditure includes planning, investigation, land acquisition, management and construction costs, as well as design. (3) The design and construct process can realise substantial benefits for large and/or complex projects. The process reduces Main Roads’ exposure to risks of inadequate interfacing between the design and construction and maximises the opportunity for tenderers to offer innovative and effective designs. Design work - undertaken essentially for stage 4 - will be provided to tenderers. The value of this design work will be an integral element of the tender process. Tenderers will reflect the value of this work in their final tender price.

ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL 2000 Committee Resumed from an earlier stage. The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Hon Derrick Tomlinson) in the Chair; Hon N.F. Moore (Leader of the House) in charge of the Bill. Clauses 35 to 60 put and passed. Clause 61: Section 4 amended - Hon N.F. MOORE: I move - Page 45, line 14 - To delete “a constitution that specifies”. Page 45, line 27 - To delete “a constitution that specifies”. The amendments to this clause and those on the Supplementary Notice Paper relating to clause 62 are related. Their only purpose is to correct a drafting error. The requirement that the aim of promoting parliamentary candidacy be in a written constitution of a political party should not have been included in the general definition of “political party”. That is relevant only to political party registration under section 62H, not in other cases in which the defined term “political party” is used - that is, in relation to the registration of existing parliamentary parties under section 62I and in the financial disclosure provisions in part 6. I hope that explains the circumstances of these amendments. Amendments put and passed. Clause, as amended, put and passed. Clause 62: Part IIIA inserted - Hon J.A. SCOTT: I move - Page 46, line 25 - To delete “500” and insert “250”. This clause is unfair as a number of existing smaller parties will no longer be able to put their names on ballot papers. It will make it very difficult for them to stand candidates at elections. It is also out of kilter with that which applies in all other States. This number has been lifted from the Queensland legislation. That State has twice the number of electors as Western Australia. The New South Wales legislation sets the number at 750 and that State has three times as many electors. The South Australian legislation requires 120 members and that State has a similar number of electors as those in Western Australia. This legislation clearly sets the highest hurdle on a pro rata basis of any State in Australia. While it makes life easy for the administration of elections, it is undemocratic, and the Greens (WA) never support undemocratic moves. We ask other members to support this amendment. We believe it enhances our system because it is inclusive rather than exclusive. Hon J.A. COWDELL: The Labor Party will not support this amendment. It believes there should be criteria for the establishment or recognition of political parties. This is an appropriate level of membership. I expect that even the Curtin Labor Alliance and similar parties will be able to meet this requirement. We should avoid the New South Wales situation, which allows for parties with a membership of one - for example, the “I want to be elected” party, the sham

1268 [COUNCIL] party and the front party. I note that One Nation has been registering the no GST and anti-nuclear waste parties. The party must be genuine, not simply a couple of people declaring themselves to be a party or a mass movement. Hon N.F. MOORE: The Government also does not support the amendment. As I said during the second reading speech, it believes that 500 is the appropriate figure. This figure was recommended to the Government by the Electoral Commissioner after he considered the situation in other States with a registration system. We could argue whether the figure should be 200, 450, 700 or 5 000. On balance, the Government believes 500 is a fair and reasonable figure, bearing in mind that we are talking about the number of members required to enable a political party to be registered, and that the aim of a political party is to have members elected to Parliament; therefore, it should represent a reasonably significant number of people in the community who want to put forward a candidate. Hon HELEN HODGSON: The Australian Democrats support this amendment. We are concerned that the figure of 500 is disproportionate, because the federal legislation also has a figure of 500, yet there are considerably more electors in the whole country than there are in Western Australia. A figure of 250 is more reasonable in terms of the population and voter base of Western Australia. Amendment put and a division taken with the following result -

Ayes (5)

Hon Helen Hodgson Hon Christine Sharp Hon Norm Kelly (Teller) Hon J.A. Scott Hon Giz Watson

Noes (19)

Hon Kim Chance Hon Peter Foss Hon N.F. Moore Hon W.N. Stretch Hon J.A. Cowdell Hon G.T. Giffard Hon M.D. Nixon Hon Derrick Tomlinson Hon Cheryl Davenport Hon Ray Halligan Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich Hon Ken Travers Hon E.R.J. Dermer Hon Barry House Hon B.M. Scott Hon Muriel Patterson (Teller) Hon Max Evans Hon Murray Montgomery Hon Tom Stephens Amendment thus negatived. Hon N.F. MOORE: I move - Page 46, after line 25 - To insert -

that has a constitution that specifies as one of its objects or activities the promotion of the election to the Parliament of the State of a candidate or candidates endorsed by it; I talked about that earlier and the same reasons apply as applied to the original amendment to clause 62. Amendment put and passed. Hon HELEN HODGSON: I move - Page 47, line 3 - To insert after “Council” -

or a member of either House of the Parliament of the Commonwealth in relation to Western Australia I mentioned this briefly when I spoke to the first clause of the Bill. I am concerned that because of the way the legislation is currently drafted, it refers to a parliamentary party having only members of the State Parliament of Western Australia. That can cause some anomalies when a party has a federal member who cannot register under state law. In every party I can think of, a person has contested both state and federal elections in consecutive elections. In one situation a person would be able to identify himself as a member of a party, but in the state election he would not be able to identify himself as a member of the party although representing the same views and policies, albeit in a different forum, in both situations. This amendment is consistent with the registration provisions of the federal legislation which provide that a parliamentary party can include a member of the Federal Parliament, a State Parliament or a member of the Assemblies of the two Territory Parliaments. A potential issue of concern arises, as we would not want the legislation to be so broad as to allow a member of a party that is representing New South Wales but not Western Australia. The only party I can think of off the top of my head, without implying anything against this party, is the Better Future for our Children party. To the best of my knowledge, it has not put its head up in Western Australia, although I am sure the Electoral Commissioner would know if I am incorrect. It should not have the protection of being a parliamentary party by virtue of having a member elected in New South Wales when it does not have any representation in Western Australia. That situation has been dealt with because the amendment refers to only if the party has a member in the Parliament of the Commonwealth in a Western Australian seat. For those reasons this simply removes any potential anomalies that might arise.

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Hon J.A. COWDELL: The Australian Labor Party supports this amendment. It believes that if we are defining the criteria for registration of a political party, a reasonable element of that criteria would be that if a party gained a representative in a Western Australian constituency for the House of Representatives or in a Western Australian constituency for one of the 12 Senate seats, given the percentage of the vote required in either of those cases, it is a reasonable indication of substance for registration as a political party. Were this to apply generally to a representative in the House of Representatives or the Senate, which might apply to States other than Western Australia, we would not be supporting it, but as it is specific to the State we are willing to support it. Hon J.A. SCOTT: The Greens intended to move a similar amendment had Hon Helen Hodgson not moved her amendment. We can see that problems could arise with federal members of a party that was not represented in the State Parliament. We will support the amendment. Hon N.F. MOORE: The Government does not support this amendment. We are talking about the definition of a parliamentary party under state law. We say that a parliamentary party is a political party if at least one member is a member of the Legislative Assembly or Legislative Council. Therefore, the definition relates to the membership of the Western Australian Parliament. A parliamentary party under state law should be a parliamentary party that exists by virtue of having members of the State Parliament. We are being asked to acknowledge that a parliamentary party in Western Australia can be a party that does not have a member in the State Parliament; it may have a member in the Federal Parliament but not the State Parliament. That is a bit obscure and unusual. I would prefer to give further thought to this. Hon Helen Hodgson said that the amendment is new one which has just arrived on the desk. I would like to report progress with the view of looking at it a little more. I have been advised that it is the intention of the mover to insist on this. If the House agrees, better words would cover it, because the wording of the amendment is "or a member of either House of the Parliament of the Commonwealth in relation to Western Australia". I am not sure what "in relation to Western Australia" means. It is arguable that it does not mean that the member must necessarily come from Western Australia. The wording must be looked at quite carefully. I am also advised that if we were to agree to that amendment, further amendments would be necessary to other parts of the Bill to cover the effect of it. I suggest, Mr Chairman, that you report progress and seek leave to sit again at the next sitting of the House. Between now and next week I will discuss the matter further and maybe come back with the continuation of the Government's view that we should not agree to it, or better and additional drafting, if it is required. Progress reported and leave granted to sit again.

MEDICAL AMENDMENT BILL 2000 Receipt and First Reading Bill received from the Assembly; and, on motion by Hon Peter Foss (Attorney General), read a first time. Second Reading HON PETER FOSS (East Metropolitan - Attorney General) [4.54 pm]: I move - That the Bill be now read a second time. I am pleased to introduce this Bill, the purpose of which is to make two amendments to the Medical Act 1894: First, to create a new category of conditional registration that better accommodates an innovative scheme to attract suitably qualified overseas-trained medical practitioners to help address doctor shortages in remote and rural parts of the State; and, second, to provide for the appointment of a second legal practitioner as a member of the Medical Board of Western Australia. I will describe the purpose of, and background to, each of these measures in a moment, but first I will comment on the relationship between the Bill and a major review of the Medical Act that is currently in progress. The aim of this review is to produce a new Medical Act for Western Australia to replace the Medical Act 1894. Few would disagree that such replacement is long overdue. In January this year the Minister for Health approved for public consultation the release of a report which set out proposals for a new Medical Act. The report was prepared by a working party chaired by Professor Bryant Stokes, the Health Department’s Chief Medical Officer, and included representatives of the Medical Board, the medical profession, and health consumers. The report makes 79 recommendations, mostly concerning the constitution and powers of the Medical Board, and the performance by the board of its key statutory functions of registering medical practitioners and regulating medical practice. I am pleased to advise the House that the report was generally well received by both the medical profession and the broader community. Fifty-three written submissions were made to the review. These indicate that the majority of the working party’s proposals for new legislation are supported. The working party was invited to consider whether changes to its original proposals on a number of issues need to be made in the light of submissions made to the review. That process is under way and the Minister for Health will be receiving the working party’s final recommendations in the near future. In the meantime, two issues require more

1270 [COUNCIL] immediate attention. The Bill amends the Medical Act 1894 to deal with these issues on an interim basis pending Parliament’s consideration of legislation to replace the Medical Act in its entirety. I turn now to the measures contained in the Bill. Much of the Bill’s content is taken up with the creation of a new category of conditional registration for overseas-trained doctors who enter a scheme to provide general practitioner services in remote and rural parts of the State. It is important to understand in this context that the Medical Act distinguishes between the granting by the Medical Board of general - or unconditional - registration and conditional registration for specific purposes. General registration under section 11 of the Medical Act is available to Australian and New Zealand medical graduates and to overseas-trained doctors who pass a competency examination which is administered by the Australian Medical Council. The specific purposes for which conditional registration may be granted at the discretion of the Medical Board are set out in section 11AF of the Medical Act. Those purposes include undertaking postgraduate training, medical teaching or medical research; enabling overseas-medical graduates with specialist qualifications and experience to practise within their specialty; and filling unmet areas of need as determined by the minister. The Bill builds on the Medical Board’s discretionary ability to grant conditional registration for specific purposes. More specifically, clause 8 of the Bill creates a new category of conditional registration which is tailored to the particular features of the scheme, announced jointly by the Minister for Health and the Federal Minister for Health and Aged Care in April 1999, to attract suitably qualified overseas-trained doctors to help overcome doctor shortages in remote and rural communities. The House knows that access to primary health care services, particularly medical services, is a major issue of concern to Western Australians living in the bush. The viability of our remote and rural communities and the quality of life enjoyed in those communities can be significantly compromised by their inability to attract and retain medical practitioners to meet their health care needs. Much work has already been done in this area. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the contributions made in particular by the Western Australian Centre for Remote and Rural Medicine; the main specialist medical colleges - the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners and the Australian College of Remote and Rural Medicine; the Medical Board of Western Australia; the Australian Medical Association; and the Rural Doctors Association in addressing this very important issue. The difficulties of attracting doctors to rural areas has resulted from the unwillingness of sufficient numbers of Australian medical graduates to enter general practice in remote and rural areas; and limitations on the numbers of overseas-trained doctors who gain access to medical practice in Australia each year by passing the Australian Medical Council’s competency examination. Tackling this situation is a priority and the Government has therefore been pleased to lend its support to the scheme I referred to earlier which, in essence, combines registration under the Medical Act with the granting of Medicare provider numbers by the Health Insurance Commission, the prospect of permanent migration, and a continuing entitlement to practice medicine in Australia for overseas-trained doctors who satisfy certain requirements of scheme participation. The relevant requirements are, first, that they practise medicine in remote or rural areas designated by the minister for the purposes of the scheme for a period of five years; second, if their qualifications are not deemed to be equivalent to the fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners at the point they enter the scheme, that they attain this fellowship within two years of entry. As indicated, it is a key feature of the scheme that, as a reward for scheme participation, overseas-trained doctors who satisfy both those requirements will have continuing registration under the Medical Act. However, after five years, the geographical restriction on their practice will no longer apply. Of course, it is hoped that overseas-trained doctors recruited to the scheme will choose to remain in remote and rural communities beyond the initial period of five years. Their selection for scheme participation holds out this possibility by taking account of their suitability to practice in remote or rural areas. Implementation of the scheme has proceeded under the Medical Act 1894 with most scheme participants being registered in the unmet area of need category of conditional registration. Overseas-trained doctors wishing to participate in the scheme are assessed by a state interview panel convened by the Western Australian Centre for Remote and Rural Medicine. The panel also comprises representatives of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners and the Australian College of Remote and Rural Medicine. The panel’s assessment informs the Medical Board’s decision regarding the granting of registration; however, it is important to emphasise that the decision as to who may be registered under the Medical Act remains with the board. I am pleased to advise the House that, as at 1 August 2000, 40 overseas-trained doctors have been accepted into the scheme and have found placements in remote and rural communities. That is a significant achievement of profound importance for the communities concerned. Although scheme implementation has proceeded under the current Act, there are a number of reasons that a specific new category of conditional registration should be put in place to better accommodate the particular features of the scheme. These reasons include, first, to detail the matters with which the Medical Board must be satisfied when granting registration to enable an overseas-trained doctor to participate in the scheme; second, to make clear that it is a condition of the registration of scheme participants that they must confine

[Thursday, 14 September 2000] 1271 their practise of medicine to the specialty of general practice; confine their practice to remote and rural parts of the state - as determined by the minister - for a period of five years; and attain fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners within two years; third, to clarify the Medical Board’s ability to cancel the registration of a scheme participant who fails to comply with any of these conditions; and, fourth, to make clear that the registration granted to a scheme participant will continue beyond the five years the person will be spending in remote or rural practice. This continuation of registration will be subject to scheme participants fulfilling the requirement to spend five years in remote or rural practice; attaining the fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners; and complying with all provisions of the Medical Act, which apply equally to other registered medical practitioners. Each of these matters is addressed in the new section 11AG, which clause 8 of the Bill proposes to insert into the Medical Act. This proposed new section also includes a definition of what is meant by practising as a general practitioner. This definition is based on one that appears in commonwealth legislation providing for the vocational registration of general practitioners for Medicare purposes. Its use in the Bill is acceptable to the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners. The definition is necessarily broad, but is intended to provide guidance to scheme participants, the Medical Board, and others of the key characteristics of the specialty of general practice within which scheme participants are expected to confine their practice. Clause 10 of the Bill provides for the transfer of the registrations of overseas trained doctors who are participating in the scheme on commencement of the Bill to the proposed new category of conditional registration. Clause 9 makes a minor consequential amendment to section 12B of the Medical Act to accommodate the creation of section 11AG. The amendment enables provisional certificates of registration to be issued to applicants for registration under section 11AG. I turn now to the second measure in the Bill, namely provision for the appointment of a second legal practitioner member of the Medical Board. This measure is included in clause 4 of the Bill in response to a request made by the board for there to be additional legal expertise available among the board’s membership. This request reflects the fact that the number of disciplinary inquiries initiated by the board under section 13 of the Medical Act is increasing. The Medical Board has advised that in 1996-97 it held five disciplinary inquiries; whereas in 1999-2000, 12 such inquiries were held. While the number of inquiries in each of these years is relatively small, Medical Board inquiries often involve complex matters going to issues of professional competence and medical ethics. At present the Medical Act provides that the composition of the Medical Board must include one legal practitioner. While it is not a requirement of the Medical Act for the legal practitioner member to be involved in all board disciplinary inquiries, it is the board’s practice to appoint the legal practitioner member to all such inquiries. This is done so that the legal practitioner member can advise other board members on the conduct of the inquiry and prepare reasons for board decisions which can be appealed to the Supreme Court. The increase in board inquiry activity is placing an unreasonable demand on the time and services of the existing legal practitioner member. The Government supports the board taking a proactive approach to its regulatory responsibilities and has therefore agreed to the board’s request. The Government’s decision in this matter took account of legal advice provided by the Crown Solicitor’s Office, which also supported the board’s request. I referred earlier to the review of the Medical Act that is currently under way. A key recommendation made by the review’s working party is that the Medical Board’s current involvement in hearing serious complaints against doctors should in future be undertaken by an independent medical tribunal chaired by a senior judicial appointee. This proposal reflects developments in a number of other jurisdictions and has attracted broad support in the consultation on the working party’s proposals. If this proposal forms part of the new Medical Act the need for the Medical Board to have two legal practitioners among its membership would be obviated. I make this point to emphasise that the provision for the appointment of a second legal practitioner member and the consequential alteration of the board’s composition needs to be viewed as an interim measure pending the completion of the Medical Act review. The composition of the board in the new Medical Act will necessarily be determined by the functions specified for the board in that act. The opportunity has also been taken to clarify the application of section 11AA of the Medical Act to the granting of conditional registration by the Medical Board. Essentially, section 11AA of the Act prevents the board registering someone as a medical practitioner unless the board is satisfied that the person is competent to practise medicine, is proficient in using the English language and is of good character. In practice, the Medical Board has regard to these matters when deciding whether to grant conditional registration under the Act. The amendments contained in clauses 5, 6 and 7 of the Bill make clear that the board is required to be satisfied that applicants for both general and conditional forms of registration meet each of these requirements. In conclusion, I advise that consultation in preparation of the Bill has occurred with the Medical Board of Western Australia, the Western Australian Centre for Remote and Rural Medicine, the Western Australian Faculty of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, the Western Australian Branch of the Australian College of Remote and Rural Medicine, and the Australian Medical Association. I commend the Bill to the House. Debate adjourned, on motion by Hon E.R.J. Dermer.

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PARLIAMENTARY SUPERANNUATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 1999 Assembly’s Message Message from the Assembly received and read notifying that it had disagreed to amendments Nos 1 to 4 made by the Council, and had agreed to amendments Nos 5 to 9.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE

HON N.F. MOORE (Mining and Pastoral - Leader of the House) [5.05 pm]: I move - That the House do now adjourn. Croatian History Group - Adjournment Debate HON LJILJANNA RAVLICH (East Metropolitan) [5.05 pm]: Tonight I record my appreciation of the work of the Croatian History Group. Last Sunday I was invited to a function at the Valley View Garden Café Restaurant organised by the Villa Dalmacia Association and the Croatian History Group. I was pleased to be invited to attend. Unbeknown to me, little has been recorded about the contribution of the Croatian people to Western Australian society. It was fantastic that a group of very learned people have taken the initiative to form a group with a committed task; namely, to ensure that the history of Croatian people and their contribution to the economic and social development of this State does not continue to go unnoticed. I place on record my appreciation, and that of the Croatian community generally and the broader Western Australian community, for this effort. As was pointed out to me, the immigration of Croatian people to Australia dates back to the mid-1800s. I had not realised that it extended back that far. I had two grandfathers who came here in the early 1900s, who I thought may have been some of the earliest Croatian immigrants to Western Australia. Clearly, many Croatian people had trodden that path from Croatia to Western Australia long before the early 1900s. Unfortunately, the history of the contribution of Croatian people is very poorly documented. The Croatian History Group has decided, as a subgroup of the Villa Dalmacia Association, to ensure that this history is told. Croatian immigrants made contributions in many areas in Western Australia, such as the fishing and agriculture industries. One need not look too far around the Perth metropolitan area to see significant contributions in places like Osborne Park and Gwellup, and the market gardens in Wanneroo. Spearwood has extensive housing developments these days, yet much of that land was previously used for agriculture. In the Swan Valley, for example, much of the land through the Morrison Road area once upon a time was vineyards. The activity in the area is not restricted to Swanview, as it occurred throughout the Swan Valley. We look at the Swan Valley with pride these days. We must recognise and appreciate the contribution of not only Croatians, but also Italian and other people who have come from that eastern and southern European region. They have made a significant contribution to the tobacco industry, the timber industry, goldmining, limestone quarrying and in various primary industries. The children of some of the early immigrants have been educated and we see them in all areas of endeavour. We see Croatian names in law, medicine, accounting and so on. Hon Derrick Tomlinson: In journalism. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Indeed; that is the case with Mr Zekulich, and people in a range of other areas. I hope we will see more people of Croatian descent involved in politics; I hope I am but the first. I cannot miss the area of sport where there have been some fantastic contributions by people of Croatian origin. It is a little sad that there is no recorded history of the contributions these people have made to this society. I found that hard to believe. However, I am told that that is the case. The Croatian History Group has decided to undertake the collection of oral histories, documentary and photographic historical material, plus any other items of historical significance, and prepare a comprehensive history based on those contributions. The commitment by the members of the Croatian History Group is so great that 18 people from the community have completed a course in oral history at Curtin University of Technology to ensure that as they go out to members of the Croatian community they know how to go about collecting data from individuals if they are participating in this type of activity for the first time. That demonstrates a marvellous commitment. I place on record my thanks to the committee members: Maria Della-Bona who is the co-chairperson, Leonore Sikirich also a co-chairperson, Dr Norm Marinovich, Mr Neven Smoje, Mrs Zarka Sumich, Mrs Nada Zuvela, Mr Steve Sikirich, Dr Tony Parentich and Mr Joe Antunovich. My understanding is that they have already commenced some interviews not only in the metropolitan area but also at Kalgoorlie, and I understand they have gone as far as the Kimberley. No doubt they will be making their way to some of the southern towns in this State. They are after any information they can obtain about individuals, their parents or their grandparents. Morning tea was particularly delightful at the Valley View Garden Cafe Restaurant. Mr Jim Talijancich from Talijancich Wines was invited as a guest and he gave an overview of what it was like for him growing up in the Swan Valley, particularly with his very close knit Croatian family.

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Hon Barry House: You should get the Croatian Sensation from Manjimup. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: We hope the history group goes to Manjimup and speaks to the Croatian Sensation. Provided the member gives me the name I will make sure that that connection occurs. Jim Talijancich junior, gave an excellent account of the history of wine making in that region and the contribution by Croatian people to that industry and how it evolved to the point where Australia, and particularly the Swan Valley, is now recognised as a premium winegrowing area. Much of that reputation can be traced back to the contribution made by migrants from Croatia and from those eastern and southern European regions. Having recorded my thanks to those people, I wish them the very best in their endeavours. They are undertaking a most commendable task. I am only too well aware how quickly one can lose a culture. Having been born in Croatia, I sometimes express disappointment that some of my nephews and nieces are barely capable of speaking Croatian. It is very easy to lose language and it should be preserved at all costs. I commend this group for getting its act together and ensuring that it will document what history is available and make it available for successive generations, not only for Croatian people but for all people. Dairy Industry - Adjournment Debate HON HELEN HODGSON (North Metropolitan) [5.14 pm]: Over the past couple of weeks a number of members in this place have raised again the issue of the dairy industry and some of the problems facing dairy farmers. I was prompted to speak tonight on the same issue because of some references that were made in this place yesterday about the need for the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to look at what is happening in the dairy industry and to try to protect the people who are losing out from the restructuring that has occurred. Yesterday, by interjection, I indicated I had been following this issue through correspondence with the ACCC. It is appropriate that having referred to that correspondence I take it further and tell the Chamber what it is that I have discovered. When the milk price wars commenced about a month ago I wrote to the ACCC and also to the Ministry of Fair Trading to ask what they would do about the undercutting of prices that would have a serious effect on supplies of milk, particularly from the farmers in the south west of this State. I drew to the commission’s attention that I felt this could be a predatory pricing practice and that not only the milk producers but also the small retail sector of the market could be affected by way of loss leaders and people being drawn away from them to the major supermarket chains. Last week I asked a question in this place of the Minister for Fair Trading to find out what he considered were the powers of the Ministry of Fair Trading in this matter. I was disappointed last week, although I was not surprised, to find that the minister does not believe that the ministry has any jurisdiction in the milk industry and the various areas that are affected by it. From recollection I asked specifically about the producers, manufacturers, suppliers and the wholesale and retail sectors. The general response was that the minister did not believe he had any powers in this matter. By coincidence, on the same day I received a letter from the ACCC addressing the same issue. The letter from the commission refers to the Trade Practices Act and reads - . . . the Commission views section 46 as a competition provision and not a catch-all for harsh behaviour by powerful corporations. To determine whether conduct breaches section 46 requires establishing a high degree of market power; use of that power in conduct that would not be regarded as rational in the normal course of business (courts will not interfere merely because someone has been hurt: without an anti-competitive purpose, damage to a competitor may be only a manifestation of the competitive process) and a proscribed purpose under section 46. Predatory pricing is one form of conduct which may be a misuse of market power. The paragraph that concerns me reads - After careful consideration of the information I am of the view that there is no evidence to suggest that the major supermarket chains have temporarily reduced their milk prices, below the level justified by competition, for the purpose of damaging, eliminating or deterring competitors in contravention of section 46 of the Act. My concern is that we were told that the overall effect of deregulation would be monitored. The reason the Australian Labor Party in the end agreed to let the legislation pass was in part an agreement with the minister that the ACCC and the Ministry of Fair Trading would be approached to monitor the effect of what was happening. As Hon Barry House has just interjected, “They have ducked the issue again.” We have a total focus on the end price of milk without any reflection of the cost structure it takes to produce that product and whether people can sustain production of the product at the prices that are available. The effect of competition may be to lower milk prices, and consumers may benefit in the short term. How much benefit will it be to consumers if we end up with a decimated milk industry in Western Australia that cannot produce milk at the prices offered, that sells its cows off for meat or for whatever it can get for them, and milk is imported from the other States? I do not want to reopen the question of whether this was inevitable, because my views on that are firmly on the record. However, I am saying that nothing is happening to protect the industry. The state watchdog, which is the Ministry of Fair Trading - its views were confirmed by the minister - and the federal watchdog, which is the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, both say that it is acceptable for the undercutting to go on. That is not good enough and it

1274 [COUNCIL] is not an adequate response. The independent sector of the retail market is having great difficulty retaining customers and the producers will be driven out of business. If this is the outcome of competition, I can understand fully why competition is regarded as such a dirty word by people in some places, including those who were in Melbourne earlier this week. Hon Mark Nevill: The mining industry has always had that competition. It is a price taker. Hon HELEN HODGSON: Yes, it is. However, in Western Australia, a major restructure of the industry is taking place. The situation is that people who had been able to make a living have had the capital value of their assets slashed as a result of the deregulation, and now they cannot even make enough to cover their running costs. That is the point of it all. Here in Western Australia there is a certain cost structure, which may be different from that in other States. However, while the pressure is on to keep reducing the price of milk because it is driven at the top end by the contracts between supermarkets and some of the manufacturers, the effects of that will filter down and affect not only the producers of the milk but also the people in the south west of Western Australia who rely on the infrastructure supporting the milk industry and who will no longer be able to make a living. It will decimate the rural sector of the south west. Hon Barry House: The ACCC should be examining that agreement between Woolworths (WA) Pty Ltd and National Foods Ltd (WA). It is an anti-competitive agreement. Hon HELEN HODGSON: I drew the ACCC’s attention to that. I said that there was an agreement. In fact, it is my understanding that those prices were negotiated before the deregulation even occurred. For milk manufacturers in Western Australia to negotiate an agreement which pre-empted legislation which had not passed this Parliament, in an environment in which there were still quota prices, and to then use that in this undercutting structure, as they are doing now, comes pretty close to being predatory pricing. Somebody must take an interest in that. I understand that the task force which will look at the future directions of the industry is about to take action, but what is the good of a task force looking at future markets if we do not have an industry that can survive until those markets can be identified and developed? We have a problem here from the ground up, and somebody must do something about it. I do not care whether it is the state price watchdog, the Ministry of Fair Trading, or the federal price watchdog, the ACCC; somebody must do something. We cannot stand by and see an industry decimated in this way. Roebuck Plains Station, Inquiry into Purchase - Adjournment Debate HON MARK NEVILL (Mining and Pastoral) [5.23 pm]: This morning I received a fax from the office of the chief executive officer of the Indigenous Land Corporation. The fax has a bit of a go at me. It says that I implied that Sir Laurence Street had resigned from the inquiry into the purchase of Roebuck Plains station in part because “it is impossible for him to do a proper inquiry into the purchase of Roebuck Plains Station without independent people at the cattle count”. For a start, I said that that may have been a reason. I made it clear that I did not know the reason. I think another probable reason he resigned was that his powers were not adequate to cover the terms of reference, which required him to look at the activities of private companies. He certainly did not have the power to subpoena documents and witnesses. It was quite inadequate. Sir Laurence may have resigned because he knew that he could not complete the work and had mediation work to do in Europe. That is quite reasonable. The letter goes on to say that I would be pleased to know that Hon Andrew Rogers, QC has agreed to take over from Sir Laurence. Mr Andrew Rogers, QC will face the same problems as Sir Laurence Street would have faced in conducting an inquiry into the purchase of Roebuck Plains station. The issue hinges on whether there are 12 000 or 18 000 cattle on the station. That makes a $1.5m to $2m difference in what the station may be worth. The last paragraph reads - On the question of independent people at the cattle count, please take this letter as an open invitation for you to come to Roebuck Plains for as long as you like. Be assured we would appreciate your assistance with the count and other matters associated with the muster. If you were unable to accept this invitation, we would be most happy for you to appoint an independent person to attend the mustering count. That is all well and good, but the last sentence says - Naturally, if you were to do this we would expect you to pay his or her costs. To do a count of 12 000 cattle would be five days’ or a week’s work. One cannot do an independent count with one observer; two would be required - one to do the count and one to ensure the cattle are not being moved in the back paddocks. It is insulting for the ILC to ask me to pay for the one or two independent observers. It managed to pay $8.2m for a property that most informed observers value at about $3.5m. With that sort of largesse, one would expect that it could pay for two independent cattle observers. That would probably cost less than the cost of employing some of these fancy lawyers and Queen’s counsels that the ILC seems to hire for little benefit. It seems to me that the ILC is penny-wise when it comes to saving money by getting me to pay for the independent observers and pound-foolish when it comes to dealing out taxpayers’ money for large stations.

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I will endeavour to find two independent people and take up the ILC’s offer. That might require my raising some funds, but I will endeavour to do so. I do not have five days to a week to sit on Roebuck Plains station counting cattle for the ILC. I think it would have known when it wrote the letter that I am extremely busy with a big electorate and a considerable workload. It is an entirely inappropriate letter to be written to me. It is clear to blind Freddy that any inquiry into the purchase of Roebuck Plains station will have little value unless one can independently audit and determine the number of cattle that are on the property. I suggest to the ILC that it focus on getting the inquiry correct. This is an internal inquiry; it is not an open inquiry. It reports to the board. The inquirer, whether it is Mr Rogers or Sir Laurence Street, does not have the power to do the job set out in the terms of reference. Frankly, it is ridiculous, and the federal Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, John Herron, should have stepped in on this matter months ago, and it is about time he did. Question put and passed. House adjourned at 5.29 pm ______

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QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Questions and answers are as supplied to Hansard.

POLICE, STATIONS, EXPENDITURE 67. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: (1) What was the total capital expenditure for each of the following Police Stations during the past nine financial years -

(a) Carnarvon Police Station; (b) Cue Police Station; (c) Exmouth Police Station; (d) Gascoyne Junction Police Station; (e) Meekatharra Police Station; (f) Mt Magnet Police Station; (g) Newman Police Station; (h) Onslow Police Station; (i) Shark Bay Police Station; and (j) Yalgoo Police Station? (2) What specific capital projects were the funds allocated to?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1) The total capital expenditure for each of the following police stations during the past nine financial years is – (a) Carnarvon Police Station $643 000 (b) Cue Police Station $146 000 (c) Exmouth Police Station $176 000 (d) Gascoyne Junction Police Station $ 35 000 (e) Meekatharra Police Station $1 251 000 (f) Mt Magnet Police Station $130 000 (g) Newman Police Station $493 000 (h) Onslow Police Station $222 000 (i) Shark Bay Police Station $59 000 (j) Yalgoo Police Station $49 000 I am advised that the Department of Contract and Management Services assisted the Police Service procure this work. Some of the information requested is not readily accessible due to the archiving of CAMS databases. (2) Capital funds were allocated either directly as new building works or as part of the following works programs: Security upgrade-existing premises (stages 1, 2 and 3), state-wide office upgrade-existing premises (stages 1, 2 and 3), firearm cabinets, firearm security upgrade, cell modifications (stages 1 and 2), video recording of police interviews, video recording of juveniles, equipment/asset purchases and replacements programs. GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, PROGRAMS FUNDED 93. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Emergency Services: What funds have been allocated from any department or agency within the Minister for Emergency Services’ portfolios, and for what programs, to each of - (a) Chamber of Commerce and Industry; (b) Pastoralists and Graziers Association; (c) WA Farmers Federation; (d) Unions WA; (e) Chamber of Minerals and Energy; and (f) Association of Minerals and Exploration Companies, for 1999-2000?

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Hon PETER FOSS replied: (a)-(f) Nil. GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, PROGRAMS FUNDED 101. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: What funds have been allocated from any department or agency within the Minister for Police’s portfolios, and for what programs, to each of - (a) Chamber of Commerce and Industry; (b) Pastoralists and Graziers Association; (c) WA Farmers Federation; (d) Unions WA; (e) Chamber of Minerals and Energy; and (f) Association of Minerals and Exploration Companies, for 1999-2000?

Hon PETER FOSS replied:

In relation to the Western Australia Police Service and the WA Drug Abuse Strategy Office, I am advised that the answer is none.

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, PROGRAMS FUNDED 125. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Emergency Services: What funds have been allocated from any department or agency within the Minister for Emergency Services’ portfolios, and for what programs, to each of - (a) Chamber of Commerce and Industry; (b) Pastoralists and Graziers Association; (c) WA Farmers Federation; (d) Unions WA; (e) Chamber of Minerals and Energy; and (f) Association of Minerals and Exploration Companies, for the period February 1993 to June 1999?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (a)-(f) Nil. POLICE, CARNARVON SAFER WA COMMITTEE 138. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: I refer to the Carnarvon Safer WA committee and ask - (1) Can the Minister for Police advise why the committee has been downgraded from district office status?

(2) Given that the Geraldton district can now overrule Carnarvon issues, can the Minister guarantee that Carnarvon issues will be given the same consideration by the Executive Committee that they were prior to the downgrade?

(3) Can the Minister confirm whether funding to the Carnarvon committee has been cut from $6 000 to $1 500?

(4) Does this funding cut have any impact on the future of the Community Policing centre in the shopping centre?

(5) Can the Minister guarantee that the long term running costs for the centre will continue to be covered?

(6) If not, why not?

(7) Will the Minister upgrade the committee to its former status and funding?

(8) If not, why not?

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Hon PETER FOSS replied: Please refer to answer to question 62. GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, TEMPORARY STAFF 460. Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Emergency Services: For each department and agency under the Minister for Emergency Services’ direction - (1) How many temporary staff have been engaged through an employment agency since January 1 1999?

(2) For each engagement, what was the -

(a) level of the position; (b) name of the employment agency; (c) duration of the engagement; and (d) reason why the position was not filled from within the public sector?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1)-(2) The Fire and Emergency Services authority of Western Australia engages temporary staff, predominantly through the Department of Contract and Management Services common use contract for the supply of temporary personnel for metropolitan Western Australian Government agencies, Contract No RFT 53/97. Temporary staff may be engaged at the discretion of management to meet operational requirements of divisions within FESA and no central recording of the engagements takes place. The temporary engagements are usually at an equivalent to the level 1 salary range and are for short-term durations, generally from one day to four weeks. Temporary engagements are utilised when no other staff member is available to undertake a specific job assignment and often occur due to the unscheduled absence of an existing staff member. GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, TEMPORARY STAFF 468. Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: For each department and agency under the Minister for Police’s direction - (1) How many temporary staff have been engaged through an employment agency since January 1 1999?

(2) For each engagement, what was the -

(a) level of the position; (b) name of the employment agency; (c) duration of the engagement; and (d) reason why the position was not filled from within the public sector?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: POLICE (1) The Recruitment & Selection Branch, WA Police Service, has engaged 10 temporary staff through an employment agency since 1 January 1999. (2) (a) Level of the position: 3 staff at level 1 and 7 Traffic Wardens (no level assigned). (b) Name of the employment agency: Employment National (no costs involved). (c) Duration of engagement. Duration Employee Category Employee 1 24/8/99 – Present Traffic Warden Employee 2 31/8/99 – Present Traffic Warden Employee 3 30/8/99 – 25/5/00 Traffic Warden Employee 4 31/8/99 – Present Traffic Warden Employee 5 31/8/99 – Present Traffic Warden Employee 6 26/7/99 – 14/7/00 Traffic Warden Employee 7 5/8/99 – Present Traffic Warden Employee 8 10/1/00 – 28/1/00 Level 1 28/2/00 – 7/4/00 Employee 9 31/7/00 – 20/10/00 Level 1 Employee 10 22/5/00 – 11/8/00 Level 1

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(d) Reason why the position was not filled from within the public sector: Employees 1-7 Casual, award free employment only. Employee 8 – Position location (Geraldton). Employees 9 & 10 – Inability of Public Sector Agencies to provide suitable candidates through redeployment means or through the Ministry of the Premier and Cabinet database for contract staff. WA DRUG ABUSE STRATEGY OFFICE (1) The WA Drug Abuse Strategy Office (WADASO) engage temporary staff, predominantly through the Department of Contract and Management Services common use contract for the supply of temporary personnel, Contract No RTF 53/97. Temporary staff are engaged at the discretion of management to meet operation requirements. Temporary engagements are utilised when no other staff member is available to undertake a specific job assignment and often occur due to the unscheduled absence of an existing staff member. The total number of temporary staff employed by WADASO for the period from 1 January 1999 to 30 June 2000 is 92. (2) Details of engagements: (a) Engagements are usually at the equivalent to the Level 1/2 salary range. (b) The names of the employment agencies are: • Shelton Partners • Placer Personnel (c) Employment is for short-term duration, generally from one day to four weeks. Work undertaken is clerical/administration and data entry. (d) Permanent positions are filled from within the public sector in accordance with the Public Sector Management Act (1994) and the Public Sector Standards. GOVENRMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, PRIVATISED, CLOSED OR CONTRACTED OUT 540. Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Emergency Services: Since the election of the present State Government in 1993 - (1) Which Government departments, agencies and/or enterprises under the Minister for Emergency Services’ portfolio have been -

(a) privatised; and (b) closed?

(2) Which services under the Minister’s portfolio, formerly performed by Government employees have been contracted out to the private sector?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1) (a) Nil. (b) Prior to 1 January 1999, the Fire and Emergency Services Department, the Bush Fires Board and the WA Fire Brigades Board were separate bodies. From 1 January 1999, these bodies became the Fire and Emergency Services Authority of Western Australia. The individual bodies ceased to exist. (2) (a) Internal Audit (b) Facilities Management - Buildings (partial) - Automotive Repairs (partial) GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, WA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY MEMBERSHIP OR SUBSCRIPTION FEES 589. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Emergency Services: What has been the cost incurred since February 1993 by any department or agency within the Minister for Emergency Services’ portfolio that pays - (a) membership; or (b) subscription fees, to the Chamber of Commerce and Industry?

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Hon PETER FOSS replied: (a)-(b) Nil.

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, WA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY MEMBERSHIP OR SUBSCRIPTION FEES 597. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: What has been the cost incurred since February 1993 by any department or agency within the Minister for Police’s portfolio that pays - (a) membership; or (b) subscription fees, to the Chamber of Commerce and Industry?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (a)-(b) In relation to the Western Australia Police Service, I am advised that the answer is nil. In relation to the Western Australian Drug Abuse Strategy Office, I am advised that the answer is nil. MERREDIN HEALTH SERVICE, HEALTH SERVICE MANAGER 679. Hon Kim Chance to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Health: In relation to the Health Service Manager of the Merredin Health Service -

(1) Is the salary level that applies to the Health Service Manager of the Merredin Health Service a level of 5.3 or higher?

(2) Is a salary level of 5.3 the usual level for a position of this type? (3) From what date did the Health Service Manager of the Merredin Health Service begin to be paid at this level? (4 Was the payment of this HSM at this level within the scope of Operational Instruction OP 1235/99 at the time that this Operational Instruction was issued? (5) Has the payment for this position at this level been authorised by HDWA, DOPLAR and the Cabinet subcommittee, if so, when was that approval given?

(6) If not, who did authorise the payment at this level?

(7) Is it intended by Government that this salary level will be applied to all HSMs with similar or greater responsibilities?

(8) Is it correct that in addition to the salary upgrade in relation to this position that was provided in late 1998 that a backpayment for a period of 12 to 18 months was also made? (9) Was this backpayment approved by HDWA, DOPLAR, or the Cabinet subcommittee? (10) If not, who did authorise the backpayment? (11) What was the amount of the backpayment? (12) Is it the Government’s intention to make this backpayment available to all HSMs with similar or greater responsibilities? (13) Is it correct that in addition to the salary upgrade, this HSM also receives free accommodation, free utility services, and free telephone and call charges? (14) Are salary packages that include free services of this nature authorised by HDWA, DOPLAR, and the Cabinet subcommittee? (15) If not, who has authorised these benefits? (16) Is it the Government’s intention that all HSMs with similar or greater responsibilities will receive these benefits as a component of their salary packages?

(17) If the payment of the salary level of 5.3, the backpay arrangements, and the free services which form a component of this HSMs package are not properly authorised, what action does the Minister for Health intend to take to ensure that the Operational Instruction is complied with?

(18) Does the Minister support the extension of these arrangements to all similar positions?

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(19) If so, what action has he taken to ensure that these benefits are extended more generally, in an effort to recruit and retain competent HSMs in country health services?

Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1) No the position is currently classified level 5.1. (2) No. (3) 21 September 1998 and stopped on 21 March 2000. (4)-(5) No. (6) The Merredin Health Service Board. (7) Not all Health Service Managers are Directors of Nursing. The salary levels referred to are for Health Service Managers/Directors of Nursing. The majority of Senior Nurse positions are currently being reviewed to ascertain if the work value has changed. The Merredin position has been initially rated as a level three on the new scale, which equates approximately to a level 5.3 under the award. (8) Yes for 12 months. (9) No. (10) The Merredin Health Service Board. (11) $8 279.44 (12) No. (13) Yes. (14) No. (15) The Merredin Health Service Board. (16) No, however, the provision of these benefits are available by negotiation through Workplace Agreements, Enterprise Bargaining Agreements or through negotiation of the employment contract as an incentive to attract and retain suitable staff. These benefits will be provided in accordance with the relevant Government Policy. (17) The free services were negotiated between the Merredin health Service Board and the Health Service Manager as part of a retention incentive for the Health Service Manager. Following a review by the Eastern Wheatbelt Health Service of salary payments in the district, the Merredin Health Service Board were notified in February 2000 that the payments above level 5.1 were not in accordance with the award rate and that the remuneration level should revert to the award rate. The remuneration level was returned to level 5.1 on 21 March 2000 and the Merredin Health Service Board has been advised to instigate immediate action to recoup all outstanding amounts including the back payment. (18) All Senior Nurse classifications are currently being reviewed. Where there is a demonstrated increase in work value the position will be reclassified at a higher level. (19) See (18) above.

MEEKATHARRA, CRIME RATE 687. Hon Tom Stephens to the Attorney General representing the Minister for Police: I refer to the statement by Sergeant Yates, the Officer in Charge of the Meekatharra Police Station, last month that his officers are struggling to cope with the alarming growth in the town’s crime rate this year and ask - (1) Can the Minister for Police confirm that 642 crimes were committed in Meekatharra last year while there were already 659 as at June 30 this year? (2) Is the Minister aware that Sergeant Yates believes the cheaper alcohol which is available in Meekatharra is the main cause of the problem and that this increase is putting his officers under enormous pressure? (3) What steps has the Minister taken to address the problem of cheaper alcohol? (4) What increased resources and funding has the Minister made or will immediately be making available to the station? (5) If none, why not? Hon PETER FOSS replied: (1) No. There were 540 reported offences in Meekatharra during 1999, and 304 reported offences in the first six months of 2000.

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(2) Meekatharra is a regional commercial centre, and prices of goods generally tend to be cheaper than those offered in surrounding remote communities. Meekatharra has a Liquor Accord between the liquor traders and police to restrict the sale of take-away liquor until 10.00 am daily and also to stop the sale of 4 litre wine casks. (3) The Minister for Police supports the work of the WA Police in establishing Liquor Accords with their local liquor industry, that allow for local solutions to local problems. (4) The Commissioner of Police is allocated adequate physical and financial resources to provide a service to the state-wide community of Western Australia. The Commissioner, his Senior Executive and Regional Commanders are responsible for monitoring the needs, and distribution of police resources in their area of operation. (5) Not applicable.

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