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3/2/07 2:10:07 PM Star INTERVIEW Anti- against Hollywood, rebels lives far from PHOTOGRAPHS BY JEFF KATZ BY PHOTOGRAPHS THE BY PAMELA FEINSILBER PAMELA BY DELROY LINDO DELROY stock characters, and isn’t afraid to say that race still underlies everything. and isn’t afraid to characters, stock

No wonder he’s not a celebrity like his old A.C.T. buddy Denzel Washington: buddy Denzel Washington: No wonder he’s not a celebrity like his old A.C.T.

the superlative actor

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122 SAN FRANCISCO APRIL 2007 wood actorslivingintheBayArea have took onlarger roles inlessquirkyfilms, group, although—inhisabilitytovanish Delroy Lindo Penn andRobinWilliams havealready Academy Award–worthy Sean Academy talents. won Oscars, andifRobinWrightwon Oscars, Penn When you think about it,alltheHolly- When youthinkabout she would certainly beacontender.she wouldcertainly into arole—arguably thebestactor. So would,givenaworthypart,the underappreciated DannyGlover. in nothing like RodneyLittle,the drugpusherheplayed Archie, thecrimelordheportrayedin tried to fi ndMelGibson’s child in was cancelled—wasdifferentfromtheFBIagentwho drama madeforNBClastseasonthat,unfortunately, his FBIagentin particularly wanthimto.Heworked hardtoensurethat each role,evenwhenaproducerordirectordoesn’t Lindo considersitapartofhiscrafttoindividualize usually playversionsofawell-protected,popularimage. actor inaneraofcelebrity, whenthetopbox-offistars ce Washington maybethenatureofhisambition.Heisan the stardomof,say, fellowA.C.T. actingstudentDenzel guy intheworld.And,ofcourse,he’snotwhite. of theworldoracting,he’snotmosteasygoing your actorspliable.Passionate whencritiquingthestate fulness thatyoumightnotfilikeyou if appealing nd he’s notHollywoodhandsome,andhehasaquietforce- is intelligentandintense.Withhiscraggy, lived-inface, being thecoarsethugalazydirectormightrecall,Lindo than brutalcriminalsandunsmilingcops.Far from directors can’t seemtorememberthathe’splayedmore should. Whentheydon’t seehimaroundtown,casting with Hollywoodinthewayanaspiringmoviestar fi andtelevisionwork,heneveringratiatedhimself lm Bay 11yearsago,justashewasgettinglotsofcallsfor and thenmovingwithhiswife,Nashormeh,totheEast Certainly hisincestuousmigrant worker in Bo, thethugwhowantstomake moviesin Still, thebiggestobstaclebetweenLindo,now54,and But havingworked onstageuntilhewasalmost40 Clockers istheleastknownofthis , whobearsnoresemblancewhatsoever to Kidnapped —a well-reviewedserialized Ransom Malcolm X . West Indian Get Shorty The Cider , is . Wondrous Oblivion grant, cricket-loving familymanintheBritishimport House Rules the theateragain—asadirector. Hisfilast attempt, rst ate avalidhumanbeingonscreen.” Nowhe’sworkingin he always seems to fi ndthetruth inhischaracter, tocre- says SanFrancisco–based directorPhilipKaufman,“and artistic integrity. “Ionlyknowhimthroughhiswork,” his wifeandyoungsonwhilegainingareputationfor television productions,he’screatedacomfortablelifefor talent warrants. talent warrants. attention-getting roleawayfromtheleadingpartshis long. Perhaps, youcan’t helpfeeling,he’sjustonemore he’s beensogoodinmanydifferentwaysfor in one fi lmoranotherfortherestofhislife,because like Wesley Snipes.Thenagain,we’llprobablyseehim million dollarfeesandinternationalfame—ofsomeone Lindo hasavoidedthefate—nottomentionmulti- the roleratherthansubsumeintoapersona, just brilliantyearsformecreatively.” formed inthesethreeenduringroles,Lindosays,“were A RaisinintheSun groundbreaking Hansberry’s ing ofLorraine nated bySidneyPoitier, in the25th-anniversaryrestag- Chicago chauffeurWalter Younger, Lee theroleorigi- “riveting.”) Aroundthattime,Lindoalsoplayedthe “imposingandintense” andhisperformance Loomis in the life ineachdecadeofthe20thcentury. (Writing of AugustWilson’s 10-playcycleaboutAfrican American in Herald Loomis came closetowinningaTony asthewild-eyed,haunted teenager they’veknownallhislife.Sixyearslater, he pectedly subjectedtotheracistinvectiveofwhite Harold”…and theBoys debut in1982Athol Fugard’s stillpenetrating written forablackactor. LindomadehisBroadway took onsomeoftherichest,mostnuancedrolesever enhanced byhisworkonstageinthe1980s,whenhe surely thaturge todelveintoacharacter’shumanitywas Lindo sayshisgoalwasalwaystobeanactorfiand rst, By stubbornlymakingthechoicetosubmerge into Since then,withhisworkinmorethan40fiand lm New York Times isutterlydifferentfromhisCaribbeanimmi- , whichjustcameoutonDVD. . Theyearsduringwhichheper- Joe Turner’s ComeandGone , criticFrank RichcalledLindo’s , asoneofthetwowaitersunex- , thethird “Master

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One producer said, ‘My God, you always play such heavies; so you’re in different person.’ don’t People see me Holly- around wood impressions impressions can be very narrow. I know it’s hurt me.” Far from thuggish in from Far Wondrous Oblivion Lindo plays a warm, loving Caribbean immi- grant to south London, who, with his daughter Elliott), teaches (Leonie their Jewish neighbor (Sam Smith) about than cricket. more

? Blue Door , in which a Caribbean , in which Wondrous Oblivion Wondrous Wondrous Oblivion Wondrous , which is a whole other kind of work. to be the last thing you’ve seen me do as an Kidnapped The play is also about forgiveness. That was a revela- The play is also about forgiveness. like like wasn’t for any cultural reason per se—I didn’t want for any cultural reason per se—I didn’t wasn’t Kidnapped it’s interesting to compare it to something Actually, actor. I thought it was great to see you smile for a change. Plus, I thought it was great to see you smile for a change. you got to kiss the girl. —and you were raised in London, so African American his- American —and you were raised in London, so African tory isn’t your history. se, no. That’s correct. So? Per play and your So how does that affect your reading of the directing? nal analysis, in the fi That’s a good question. Perhaps these ideas are universal. If we look at the play outside of the [pauses to think] ethnic context, here we have a human being who has had to be about the business of incorporating himself into environment A. That process becomes pathological for him because of the things he has to do to adapt. Now in broad terms, one could say, es that well, that’s a human condition, but one identifi cally when it’s a black man having to specifi very process adapt to a white world. When you talk about that had to do [laughs], any black man on the planet who’s that can relate. brings me to That family comes to south London in the early ’50s and inter- Were acts with its neighbors, especially a Jewish family. you raised in south London; did you go through anything this family did? like The reason I wanted you to watch One of the things I responded to when I read this play One of the things I of black male rage. The protago- was its healthy portion nist, Lewis, to position himself, his emotional has had to suppress his own anger and life, in a certain way in that. rage. I was very interested university a pretty high level, though—he’s a He’s reached a published author... a scholar, professor, with each of the things he But there are big problems has achieved. His marriage apart. He’s has just fallen believe is an enforced sabbatical been put on what I his job. And yes, because he’s been having issues around but there’s a section of the play he’s a published author, or failure as an in which his family discusses his success The fact is, at this point in his life, the wheels author. seem to be coming off. or three times tion I came to after reading the play two That also real- leading up to the auditions in New York. ly interests me. weren’t born in this country— You I was not. parents came from the Caribbean— Your Jamaica. up here. Tony Taccone told me how you sought him out a how you sought him out told me Taccone up here. Tony with Berkeley wanted a relationship and said you while back how for the theater and your reverence Rep. He mentioned lot of ideas before going you tossed around a the two of tell me about What can you with this play. , at Berkeley Rep , at Berkeley Blue Door won him a Los won him Angeles Medal of Honor Rag, Medal of Honor

After a few hours in conversation with Lindo, on a a few hours in After This is “a tricky play,” says Taccone, “about an African an African “about says Taccone, play,” This is “a tricky No. It’s the description of the various characters in a play or lm that goes out to casting directors and agents. In the fi breakdown this producer had, the description for one character was [enunciating carefully] “a brutish, Delroy Lindo type.” Oh! Right. I had a kind of a chuckle, but I think that’s a really good example of how one can be regarded very one-dimensionally and noncreatively. But you can live a more well-rounded, less moviecentric life My God, you always play such heavies; you’re so differ- My God, you always play such heavies; you’re played lms in which I hadn’t fi named I person. in ent have nothing seen those. People heavies, and he hadn’t and so their see me around town, to go on if they don’t I know it’s hurt me. impressions can be very narrow. Has it hurt you in being typecast or in not getting roles at all? to think that I’m not typecast. But people are only I like lm a few years ago, and a fi a on working was I human. producer came to me, and—you know what a break- down is? Do you think not living in L.A. has hurt your career? Do you think not living in L.A. has hurt your only impres- Because I’m not there, the absolutely. Yes, see me do sion a lot of people have of me is what they of instance, when I met with the producer onscreen. For he said, and I’m paraphrasing, lm I’m doing now, fi the year’s Weekly Theater Award for direction of a one-act. And of a one-act. for direction Award Theater Weekly with Berkeley after years of conversation this month, he is Taccone, Tony Theatre artistic director Repertory eld’s Barfi directing Tanya as deep as they go. Not this time. Lindo. “Delroy cares a tremendous amount about Lindo. “Delroy cares “and he’s spent a lot of time says, things,” Taccone the values of the culture and what he ecting on refl wants to express. preparation He is handling all the be the very least, it’ll passion, and care. At with rigor, OK. But the marriage of his insight with this text could very insightful and deep.” be very, ces and later by Rep offi quiet morning in the Berkeley point. Interviewing some phone, I understand Taccone’s a perfor- actors, you have the feeling you’re getting mance of sorts; they’ve chosen to be professionally goes, or maybe charming, and that’s about as deep as it April 6 to May 20. who is alienated not only from the American professor from his own past.” Over the world around him but night, he is visited by four course of a long, sleepless each played by the same generations of his ancestors, two actors are onstage the entire man, which means the cult for a director with diffi be could play The evening. the real Delroy knows far more experience, but Taccone PALM PICTURES/UMVD PALM SANFp125 125 SANFp126 126

126 SAN FRANCISCO APRIL 2007 the emphasis power, butit’s Lindo (here withMekhi is. People are sive turnin Phifer) madeapower- our sexuality for for is notwhere dimensional After Lindo’simpres- afraid ofour not athree- called onhimagain called Most black Frequently, Crooklyn director SpikeLee Clockers get tokiss the followingyear men don’t in films. ful druglord. power.” the girl Malcolm X andthen , inwhich , for theboatthattookfifrom people of wave rst from agenerationcalledthe“Windrush” generation, I foundsomepassports,onestamped in1948.She’s moms passed,Iwasgoingthrough herthings,and mother in1996,butmaybeayearorsobeforemy land inthe’40sand’50s;itpeaked inthe’60s.Ilostmy ation ofpeoplefromtheCaribbeanwhowenttoEng- I wantedtotellastorythatspoke tomymom’sgener- Wondrous Oblivion Was thiskindofthingareasonyouwantedtobein raised here,andletthemtellyouaboutSanFrancisco. Franciscans, African Americans who’ve beenbornand One mightthink.ButyoushouldspeakwithnativeSan little moresophisticatedthanthat. West Coast. Ijustfeelthatpeoplearoundherewouldbea my senseisthattheplaydoesn’ttake placeontheEastor interacted tosomeextentwithotherblack men?Ormaybe she alreadyknowthataboutthehands,wouldn’thave Was hetheonlyblack professoronthecampus?Wouldn’t Ha! I’msorry. Goahead,fisentence. the nish OK, guessso. [Kind ofsputtersandlaughsagain.] sity setting— life islike, thatsomebodyinthis dayandage,inauniver- Maybe that’smylack ofknowledgewhatablack male’s The playseemsasifitisnotquite setinthepresenttome. cal being. ed, just becauseshe’shavingthisresponsetohisphysi- from herfearofhim,whetherit’sfoundedorunfound- his palmsislighter].Andthenhehastoprotecther es thiswomanlookingathishands[athowtheskinon what [Gives anincredulouslaugh]Ofcourse.That’spartof even here? You stillfeelthatfear, thatgeneralizedfearofblack at thedoor, andhe’ll this storeandsteal,becausewegotablackmanstanding society hasofblackmales.You’re notgonnacomeinto males, andIthinkthatindirectlypreysonthefear That’s notanaccident.Mostsecurityguardsareblack Francisco andlookatwhothesecurityguardsare. dimensional power. GointoanystoreindowntownSan People areafraidofus,ourpower, butit’snotathree- Why isthat,wouldyousay? not wheretheemphasisofstoriesis. don’t gettodothatinfiFrequently,lms. is sexuality our Well, that’swhatonedoesn’t gettodo.Mostblackmen Yeah—it wasahotkiss. being. with beingseenasasexual the girl.Buttherewasthatelement,andithadtodo Sort of.Ididn’t thinkofitlike thatbecauseIdidn’t get You gottoplayaromanticlead. to kissthegirl. that intriguedmeaboutthefigetting of concept the lm: I didgettokissthegirl,andthatwasoneofthings Blue Door isabout.There’sascenewherehenotic- ? get you . men, year andsaid,“I’mdoingthismovie to mymoms. stunning. AndsoIwantedtodothisfihomage an as lm ous manifestationsoftheprejudiceagainstherwere like, youknow, theYanks. Butitwasn’t subtle.Thevari- British wouldhaveyoufeelthatthey’renotracist—not harshways.The immigrants wasvictimizedinextremely how muchhellmymotherhadcaught.Thatwaveof to thosereprimands.AndinthatmomentIrealizedjust reprimanded her, andmy mother’slettersresponding were lettersinwhichvarioushospitalssheworked in on thatboat. the fi lm,Istartedthinking,huh,maybemymotherwas Jamaica toEnglandin1948.WhenIwasresearching [Singing, like akidteasing]You’ve beenontheInternet. in yourclass A.C.T., whenyouwere24.And wasn’tDenzelWashin And thenin1977 youcametoSanFrancisco tostudyat Toronto, andIendedupinNewYork. some backandforthforawhile.Mymomsendedupin eled toNewYork, Toronto, therewas backtoLondon; When Iwasateenager, we,mymomsandmyself,trav- So youleftEnglandwhenwere— was harsh. prejudice?Yes,Did Iexperience ofcourseIdid.Andit like yourcharacters in like thisfamilyintermsoftheextremelyovertracism?Or In yourchildhood inLondon,didyouexperienceanything bona fifistudio Hollywood de lmIhaddone. You know, and ReneRusso andDannyDeVito. Thatwasthefirst do I gotareallywonderfulagent, andthenIwashiredto tively, Iwouldsay, totheattentionofHollywood,and want youtocomedothat.”Thatbroughtme,cumula- As aresultofdoing said, “I’mdoingthisfilm Indirectly. Spike calledmethefollowingsummerand offered moreroles? How didthatimpactplayout?Didyoubegingetting thank you,Jesus.Iwasjusthappytobeinthefilm. have theimpactthatithadonmycareer, Godblessit, was agreatpart.Imean,hadnoideathatitwould really, tobeplayingWest reallyexcited IndianArchie;it I wasn’t thinking,“IwanttoplayMalcolmX.”Iwas actors intheroom,andscriptwasreallyinteresting. offiLee’s ceinBrooklyn,thereweresomewonderful I rememberwhenwedidthefiSpikeat read-through rst you couldplayMalcolmX. I’m wondering:theremusthavebeenapartofyouthatfelt You metupagainwhenyoumade that’s whenImetDenzel. stuff iswrong.Denzelleftafterthefiyear,rst yes, but Yeah—the problemwiththeInternetisthatalotof I domyresearch. My motherwasanurse,andanotherthingIfound Get Shorty ? , withJohnTravolta andGene Hackman Crooklyn Blue Door Crooklyn , hecalledmethefollowing ? Malcolm X , Iwantyoutodoit.” Clockers in 1992, and in1992, , andI gton

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128 SAN FRANCISCO APRIL 2007 picker whoabuseshis man whosomehowis moment and daughter in As themigrantapple night for One wasso just brilliant.” relaxed and experience. House Rules Maguire) createsMaguire) a completely role, itwas Broadway (here withTobey Turner so inthat Opening so inthe not amonster. Zen-like was a The Cider , Lindo Joe on Jones washiredtoreplacehim, andLloydRichards Broadway. Zakes lefttheproduction,andJamesEarl Zakes MokaeandDannyGlover weredoingtheplayon a creativetapestry. Iwashired asanunderstudywhen Yes. withtheplaywaslike atapestry, Butmyexperience You wanttobemorestraightforward? cate withactors. There arewaysthatIknowdon’t wanttocommuni- Has thatexperienceinfluenced yourdirecting? unquote, thischaracter, alotofitwasZakes. I wonderedifeventhoughAthol hadcreated,quote Sam wasZakes Mokae,andhewonaTony Award. So were. Imean,theactorwhohadoriginatedpartof attempted tocommunicatehisactorswhothesemen he hadwritten,butitwasacuriousprocessas black man.”Athol hadacertainknowledgeofthesemen out andsaytoanAfrican Americanactor, isaslow “This Anyway, Ithinkhedidn’t feelitwashisplacetocome writer. Hisworkpost-apartheidisfarlesssuccessful. had adirecteffectonhissuccessinthiscountryas plays happenedinSouthAfrica, nothere.Ithinkthat without takingresponsibility. Because,afterall,these to unburdenthemselvesoftheirfeelingsaboutrace position. HisplaysgaveAmericanaudiencesthechance and theearly’80s,Athol Fugard hadaveryinteresting I’m reallygoingoutonalimbhere.Butinthelate’70s Why? iswhothispersonis.” table foremphasis],“This around it.Heneverwouldcomeoutandsay[tapsthe that Iwantedtoplaycertainmoments.We woulddance say, “Yes, Willie’sslow.” Itwouldcomeupintheways not? Ifeltnot.AndAthol wouldnevercomeoutand playing atthetime—illiterate?Ishementallyslowor successfully answeredwas,isWillie—thepartthatIwas Fugard wasthatafundamentalquestionnever [Considers hiswords]WhatIrememberaboutAthol who wrotetheplay? What canyourememberaboutbeingdirectedbytheman Athol Fugard. That’scorrect. —you weredirectedbytheplaywright. On theInternet,yeah— And inthatplay, fromwhatI’veread— years later, in1982. 1979. Idid form, soImademyoff-Broadway debutinthefallof Spell Number7 New York afterA.C.T. wastounderstudyinaplaycalled 1979 to 1988. The fi rstthingIdidwhenwentbackto For pretty much the fi rst10yearsofmycareer, from that,youworked intheater.Before with Get Shorty Spike’s kindaoutsideofthat.Butbeinghiredtodo Malcolm X , that wasallpartofacontinuumstarted , “Master Harold”…and theBoys , byNtozake Shange.Iactuallygottoper- . acoupleof duction of Turner In thespringof1987,IwenttoSeattledoanother in thewinterof1986,Igotcalledfor replace him.Didyoufollowthat? Danny Gloverlefttodoafito hired was I and lm, came intodirect.ThelastmonthoftheBroadwayrun, theater. Lloydhaddirected icon, aprofoundlyimportantpersonintheAmerican period. AsIsaid,hadmetLloydRichards,whoisan as anactorthatI’veeverhadontheplanet,barnone, Joe Turner Broadway. were afinalist foraTony whentheplaywason in1988 and Gone And thenafewyearslateryouwerein Star Wars nia todosomeadditionaldialoguerecordingfor both parts,JamesEarlJoneshadtocomeoutCalifor- But priortothat,whileIwasstilltheunderstudyfor Yeah. of 1986,Ididmyfirst Roc didn’t doit,andLloydcalledmetoaudition. closing thelastpage,andsaying,“I’vegottodothis.” ber readingtheplayinmylivingroomNewYork, bility thatRocwouldn’t doitbecauseofafiremem- I lm. completely visceralwithme. don’t know, man,butyou’vegottagoseeit.”Itwas play.” Oneguysaid,“What’sitabout?”AndI“I actors Iwasworkingwith,“You’ve gottogoseethis went theretoseetheplay. day, Thenext Isaidtosome upatYale,originated thepartofHeraldLoomis andI Come andGone which wasthestartofawholenewgenerationblack play, andIwenton,itwasgreat. see JamesEarl!ButIreallyfeltstrongaboutdoingthat Lindo.” Andtherewasthisgroan.Theyallwantedto performance, thepartofSamwillbeplayedbyDelroy “Attention, ladiesandgentlemen,atthisevening’s debut inthispartwithDannyGlover. So itwasreallywonderfultobemakingmyBroadway know, andwehadbecomefriendswhenIwasatA.C.T. Willie. DannyGloverisfromSanFrancisco, asyou Harold”…and theBoys 93 percentsuccessful. successful, attheKennedyCenterIwasprobably85to much better. IfatYale Iwasmaybe65to70percent Walter again,atthe KennedyCenter, Lee andIwas very good.Butin1986,Igottheopportunitytoplay it wasahugedeal,andIveryintimidatednot in 1983toperformthe25th-anniversaryproduction; actors playinginblacktheater. LloydinvitedmetoYale But here’smypointintellingyouallthis:Inthefall When theytooktheplaytoBoston,therewasapossi- On openingnight,theymadetheannouncement: But beforethat,inthespringof1986,Isaw . In late spring of 1987, I did the Los Angelespro- . Inlatespringof1987,Idid the Los . SoImademyBroadwaydebutin , alsodirectedbyLloydRichards; infact,you remainsoneofthemostfulfi experiences lling A RaisinintheSun . TheactorCharlesDutton,Roc playingSamtoDannyGlover’s Joe Turner’s ComeandGone A RaisinintheSun . Joe Turner’s Come A RaisinintheSun “Master in1959, Joe Turner’s . Then Joe .

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130 SAN FRANCISCO APRIL 2007 Berkeley, 510-647-2949 you’re seeing is everpresent infi lms are, themore familiarity. It’s he plays an FBI agent he playsanFBI Lindo’s solidauthority family tohelpanother who neglectshisown like Look atJack God’s sake.” Nicholson— challenging Jack. known you the levelof Berkeley Repertory Ransom disappear you know Departed 2025 AddisonSt., The more character. April 6–May20 Jack fi ndtheirson. inside a Blue Door That’s in it isto , inwhich Theatre , for The , You know, whathappensduringapressjunket fora typecasting moreintensely.” but itstruck me:“As mycareerhasgrown,I’vehadtobattle from anewsarticle,soIknowit’snotnecessarilyaccurate, noticed acommentyoumadefewyearsago—andthisis Alright, butgetting back tothenotionoftypecasting, I really awasteoftime. spend mytimethinkingaboutthatkindofstuff.It’s You wouldhavetospeculateonthat.Itendnot not aconventional-looking,Hollywood-handsomeguy? Did younotseekthemout?Orcoulditbebecauseyou’re [Still laughing]Whydoyouthinkitis? But whydoyouthinkthatis? your fi lm,rememberthat. Talk totheproducers[laughs].Andwhenyou’remaking leading roles.That’s whatIthink. Still, youaresuch afine actor, youshouldhavegottenmore an actor. That’swhatwasgettingmehired,Ithink. doing Hollywood fi lms,Ihadacertaintrackrecordas more importanttolearnmycraft.Also,whenIstarted Angelestotrygetafito Los Tocareer? lm was it me No. Who’s tosaywhatwouldhavehappenedhadIgone ing inthetheaterwhenyouwereyoung? But doyouthinkinhindsighttherewasatradeoffforwork- culture isyouthoriented.Youth obsessed,actually. That’s Americanculture,notjustHollywood. bythen... young, andyouwereinyourlate30s Yes, andsinceHollywoodisallaboutyouthlooking opened an actorbyleapsandboundsasaresult.Bythetimewe into thismaelstrom.I’dlike tobelievethatIadvancedas magnitude, asOthelloortheScottishking.Iwasthrust classical parts,asgoodandcomplicated,withmuch doesn’t getanybetterthanthat.Thesearetwogreat, mis andWalter Younger, Lee andcreativelyitjust Wow isright.SoIwasalternatingbetweenHeraldLoo- Wow. someone like JackNicholson—Ijustsaw is thesevarious,differentcharacters. Whenyoulookat more challengingtogettheaudience toacceptthatone audience becomesfamiliarwith one,itbecomesmuch the moreoneworksasafiactor,lm one’s more the and tointhatquote: This iswhatIthinkwasreferring grown, aswe’veseenmoreandofyou— But itisaninterestingnotion,thatasyourcareerhas ments thatyou’vemade. fi lm,allthejournalistsmixandmatchvariouscom- At thatpointIwasofftodoafilm. Danny Glover[laughs]asWalter ButthatwasOK. Lee. one inL.A.,theydidthetelevisionremake, starring they’d everhad.Asaresultofthatproductionandthe ter, Ithinkitwasthemostsuccessfulpieceoftheater in thatrole,itwasjustbrilliant. relaxed andsointhemomentplay Onewasso night wasacompletelyZen-like experience. WhenIdid Joe Turner A RaisinintheSun onBroadwayin1988,thatopening attheKennedyCen- The Departed . know you’reseeingJack.It’s Did you see the fi lm?He’splayingacharacter, butyou lending that to a fi lm,hasbecomelessvaluable;that’sa ac-tor ple especiallywillpaymoneytosee.Sotheideaofan with thefactthatthesearecommoditiesyoungpeo- That hasnothingtodowithactingandeverything in otherspheresbecoming“actors”—rappers,singers. you havethisphenomenonofpeoplewhoaresuccessful fi lmistogetpeoplepaymoneyseeit,whichwhy of givingaudiencesknownquantities.Thepointany driven, andacertainkindofproducerthinksinterms The entertainmentindustryisalotmorecelebrity stretch himselfandshowwhathecando. roles. You’d thinkthat’swhatanactorwouldwant,to it’s mostlyBritishactors?—completelyvanishintotheir But youstillseelongtimeactorslike HelenMirren—maybe Right. Butpartofthatisbecausetheywerelessknown. man orothersdidtheirbestworkwhentheywereyounger. feel thatanactorlike Jack Nicholson or, say, DustinHoff- In termsofdisappearinginsidethecharacter, onedoes the fi rstplace. Well, that’sawholeother[laughs]—gettingthejobin To getcastindifferentroles. So youhadtoacquiesce. producer. In thiscase,yeah,becausehe was avery, verypowerful And theproducercouldoverruledirector? ativity hewanted. what I want in my fi lm.”Andthatwasthelevelofcre- “I’m payingyoualotofmoneyforthislook.That’s speak withtheproducerfollowingday, andhesaid, little ugly; theygotveryupsetwithme.Iwascalledinto I said,Wait asecond,thiswasallagreedto.Itbecame set, andtheysay, Ohno,don’t wearthat;this.And off on. Then the fi rstdayofshooting,Ishowuponthe choices withregardtowardrobethatthey’dallsigned sionalize it,make itarealhumanbeing.SoImadesome ments ofthestockaboutit,youwanttothree-dimen- stock part,“thecop,”doctor.” Inapartthathasele- was playingwhatcouldeasilyhavebeeninterpretedasa One time—andI’mnotgonnamentiontheproject—I Is itafight tomake thathappen? doing andwhatyou’vedoneinthreeotherfilms? you do,howdodistinguishbetweenwhatyou’re Yes, it’smorechallengingtogetparts,andthenwhen More challenging foracoupleofreasons. becomes morechallengingtofiparts. nd So forsomebodylike me—youknow, I’manactor—it huge generalization,butlookatthefimade. get that lms character. becomes, themorechallengingitistodisappearinsidea to—thatthemoreknownanentityone referring level offamiliarity, right?That’sthephenomenonIwas even knowJackNicholson,buthe’s doingreallygoodworkinterpretingapart,and Jack , forGod’ssake. Idon’t Jack . There’sthat

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132 SAN FRANCISCO APRIL 2007 SAN FRANCISCO fi lmcalled is playingSatchelPaige inanHBO Something elseI’mreallyproudof som Malcolm X House Rules PAMELA FEINSILBER Yeah, Iwanttodoallofit. All ofit.Whycan’t Idoallofit? directing playsandfilms? to moveinthatdirection?Imean, do youfeelthatultimatelywant actors, inaplacethatlovestheater— a biggerplay, withmoreexperienced Especially nowthatyou’reworkingon objective formyself. my desire,that’swish, both intheaterandfiThat’s lm. a livingasanactor, andasadirector, and hopefullyI’llcontinuetomake I’vemadealivingasanactor,Look, thing in? calls forrolesthatyoucanfisome- nd Do youfeelyou’regettingenough compelling foranaudience. solve that,hopefullyyoucanmake it that’s what’sinteresting.Ifyoucan that whichishumanlycompelling, power overthesechildren?Finding dren. Whydoesthismanhavesuch was hisrelationshiptothosechil- interest tome.Whatinterestedme drug dealerwascompletelynotof Clockers drug dealer?WhenIwasdoing guish thisdrugdealerfromanother the otherFBIguy?HowdoIdistin- do IdistinguishthisFBIguyfrom knowing that,myjobbecomes:how audience memberrespondtoit.So There yougo.That’showasan couple oftimes... guya TV series,you’veplayedtheFBI Thinking of Sure, Oblivion Another reasontobein you didtwoorthreefiago. lms being, andbedifferentfromwhat other waystobecomeahuman Yes, Idid.Butyoutrytoworkin —I thinkallweredistinctive. Wondrous Oblivion , thefactthatguywasa . , Soul oftheGame Clockers

, West Indian Archie in Kidnapped . IS AEDITOR SENIOR AT , Get Shorty , yourrecent , Wondrous The Cider . I , Ran- 3/2/07 2:11:23 PM